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WEBVTT
Kind: captions
Language: en
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[Music]
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anybody who already knows you knows of
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your background and I think that extends
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to a great number of people but just for
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the saving us a minute I give me the
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compressed version of your originality
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in this field you started with and where
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you are now well I started on the north
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end of Vancouver Island on a float camp
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with no road to it till I was about 14
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so I grew up in total nature just boats
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and the odd airplane float plane came in
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now and again and we were there all year
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round
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without any contact with the outside
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world and went out at Christmas time for
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a few weeks to Vancouver usually which
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was town for us because there was
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actually no road to the north end of
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Vancouver Island he had to go across
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support hardy and take the steamship
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down to Vancouver ment overnight yeah
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very much it was like an out port very
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much and so I really related to
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Newfoundland when I visited there on
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numerous occasions yes I I grew up there
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and then I was shipped off to boarding
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school in Vancouver an english-style
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boarding school named st. George's and I
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excelled in the life sciences there as I
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came up to my later years in school and
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then went to UBC for eight years doing a
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Bachelor of Science in biology and
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forest biology forestry being the
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biggest industry and the industry my
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family had been in for a hundred years
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before we got out a little while back
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and so I've got a fair amount of
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knowledge on that subject of trees and
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then I learned the word ecology it had
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never been in the public press and a
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professor of Latin or Creina who was a
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Czech refugee from the Communists had
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come to UBC and was a forest ecologist
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had been Deputy Minister of forests in
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Czechoslovakia before he fled I heard
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the word just interrupted slightly I
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heard the word ecology first time in
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1967 when would that be for you around
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the same time
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mid-sixties probably 66 and it had
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actually not appeared in the public
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press at that point it was a very
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obscure division of biology it came from
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the Ukrainian steps in the study of soil
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science there in the in the breadbasket
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of the Ukraine and it eventually then
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applied to all life and then to the
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whole world yeah so ecology is really
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the synthesis of many other sciences and
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how it's basically about how everything
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is interrelated yeah how we are related
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to nature how nature is is is formed the
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evolution of nature the minerals of the
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air the water it's all the signs of
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being exactly and so see I'd been
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growing up in a completely secular
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household we didn't talk about spiritual
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things around the dinner table and that
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little floating logging camp and when I
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discovered ecology though and I'd always
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thought science was a purely technical
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matter that you could measure everything
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in inches and feet and when I discovered
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ecology I realized that through science
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you could gain an insight into the
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mystery of nature in the universe and
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the infinity of it basically you know
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and and because infinity is a strange
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concept but if you think about how many
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interrelationships there are amongst all
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the moving parts of just this one little
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planet yeah it's a lot and when I need
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to go to the climatic moment or in the
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early days or been other since you're
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involved and probably what is still the
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most brand recognized ecological group
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or environmental Greenpeace just sketch
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sketch that period well I was doing my
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PhD in ecology when I heard about this
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little group that called the don't make
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a wave committee that was starting to
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meet in the basement of the Unitarian
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Church in Vancouver to plan a protest
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voyage against us hydrogen bomb testing
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in Alaska to take on the world's most
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powerful organization the US Atomic
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Energy Commission and I thought gee
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that'd be better than just sitting
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around here in the desks reading books
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and writing exams I want to get up and
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do something about this because it was
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the height of the Cold War the height of
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the Vietnam War
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and the height of the threat of all-out
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nuclear war between the superpowers and
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the and also the emerging understanding
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of ecology and environment was just
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happening then and the youth so
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Greenpeace became joining together the
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newly emerging consciousness of the
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environment with the longstanding
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tradition of peaceful or nonviolent
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resistance to what you thought was
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unjust or should be ended just another
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interruption yeah I for a long time
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thought I don't like the organization as
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you probably know but I thought that
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that's probably the most either skillful
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or clever or most intelligent one-word
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name for any organization that
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identifies both cause has appeal I don't
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know who fashioned at first but it was a
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brilliant work it came innocently at the
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end of a committee meeting Bill Darnell
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a carpenter and union guy we were
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breaking up the meeting and in those
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days you said peace is almost like see
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you later
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and he looked up and said why don't we
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make it a green peace just like that
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it's it's of although they're they're
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out there I'm just a lot out there
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that's that's the key one now then we
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skip a lot because again biography is
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one thing but at some point even you who
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are one of the originators even though
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some are arguing with you these days but
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you are you were one of the originators
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of the planets most recognizable protest
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group at some point something happened
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and you and it were no longer in sync
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that's right well we we stopped the u.s.
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hydrogen bomb tests we we drove the
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French atmospheric nuclear test
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underground then we went out into the
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Pacific I was on four voyages four
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summers in a row against the Soviet and
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Japanese factory whaling fleets then we
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did the baby seal hunt which I think
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you're familiar with and then we got
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into toxics and that was a really good
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area to get in the rivers of Europe were
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practically all dead they didn't have a
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clean air act or clean water act like
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the United States and Canada was
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bringing that in already by that
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in the late 70s early 80s and so we
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worked on that a lot but as we moved
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along the the piece sort of got dropped
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off the green piece and now all there
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was was green and we started with a
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fairly strong humanitarian orientation
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to save civilization from all-out
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nuclear war and that means you care
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about the people too and by the time
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1015 years was gone by Greenpeace was
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starting to like and the rest of the
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movement too was beginning to
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characterize humans as the enemies of
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nature the enemies of the earth as if we
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were separate from the rest of nature
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and should somehow be downgraded you
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know morally downgraded and I'm going
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like that's just way too much like
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original sin for me like everything else
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is good all the other animals and plants
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and rocks and everything is good and
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humans are bad no I don't go for that so
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that was the sort of overarching thing I
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realized we had to develop an
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environmental policy that included the
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needs of people otherwise it wouldn't be
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accepted very readily and and we were
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getting off into areas where I say you
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didn't have to be really a nuclear
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physicist to understand that we should
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end nuclear war you didn't have to be a
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marine biologist about the whales you
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just wanted to save the whales but when
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it comes to toxic chemicals and
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chemistry and science in general it
00:08:02.909 --> 00:08:04.469
helps to have a little bit of science
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and I ended up as one of six
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international Directors in Greenpeace
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for the last six years I was seven years
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I was there and not one of the others
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had any formal science education they
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were basically political activists
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social activists entrepreneurs because
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now you could actually make a living in
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the environmental movement and so they
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were carving out a career in it but no
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science at what point in grebes is the
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massive exemplar but you've had
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experience with many many groups at what
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point does the original motivations
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which I will quite readily acknowledge
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you're either pure it may be naive but
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you're pure their intent on what it is
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they're saying that they're doing we
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to do this we want to clean up this
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river and that we're going to approaches
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but at one point and it seems to happen
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a lot does the attachment to to the
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right cause become some sort of self
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propelling thing and suddenly the person
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backing the cause becomes I don't know
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not a dictator but consumed by our own
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virtue to the point and then they say
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well whatever disagrees with me you're
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against all that's right it there's an
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infection there somewhere there's two
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major aspects to it one is that at a
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certain point you have tackled all are
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really important subjects and one we
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could do we cleaned up the rivers in
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Europe we stopped the whaling fleets we
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drove the nuclear tests underground or
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I'll stop them altogether so we you know
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it's kind of the low-hanging fruit when
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you're an environmentalist and
00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:40.320
eventually when everybody agrees with
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all the reasonable things you're wanting
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the only way to remain in a
00:09:44.580 --> 00:09:47.250
confrontational adversarial bad guys
00:09:47.250 --> 00:09:50.490
good guys situation is to adopt ever
00:09:50.490 --> 00:09:52.230
more extreme positions eventually
00:09:52.230 --> 00:09:53.430
abandoning a science and logic
00:09:53.430 --> 00:09:56.640
altogether in political science or
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political act activity that doesn't make
00:09:59.640 --> 00:10:01.650
any sense like for example ending the
00:10:01.650 --> 00:10:04.200
use of fossil fuels worldwide I mean
00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:06.630
that is not a logical thing to do but
00:10:06.630 --> 00:10:08.760
they're pushing it now and so I wouldn't
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be any part of that I know that that's
00:10:10.560 --> 00:10:11.490
not possible
00:10:11.490 --> 00:10:14.130
in in our civilization but they're
00:10:14.130 --> 00:10:16.380
saying it is they're wrong the other
00:10:16.380 --> 00:10:19.310
aspect of it is that many organizations
00:10:19.310 --> 00:10:22.260
start out as volunteers with a noble
00:10:22.260 --> 00:10:25.560
cause and but not too long after if
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they're successful they actually end up
00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:29.280
being a kind of business with a payroll
00:10:29.280 --> 00:10:32.190
to meet and fundraising suddenly comes
00:10:32.190 --> 00:10:34.320
to the forefront as being the primary
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objective and then it turns into a
00:10:36.540 --> 00:10:38.970
racket and that's what happened with
00:10:38.970 --> 00:10:40.440
Greenpeace they have turned into a
00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.470
racket this whole plastic war on plastic
00:10:43.470 --> 00:10:45.360
they invented that in their back room
00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:47.040
and they and they don't come out anymore
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and talk to anybody that's all done
00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:51.060
behind the scenes you can't walk into a
00:10:51.060 --> 00:10:53.160
Greenpeace office anymore the door's
00:10:53.160 --> 00:10:54.960
locked you have to make an appointment
00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.570
to get in there so it wasn't like that
00:10:57.570 --> 00:10:59.750
in the beginning we were totally open
00:10:59.750 --> 00:11:03.510
and we weren't plotting in
00:11:03.510 --> 00:11:05.160
same way that they are now they're
00:11:05.160 --> 00:11:08.580
hiring the top PR and communications
00:11:08.580 --> 00:11:10.770
people to help them design their new
00:11:10.770 --> 00:11:13.620
campaigns and so this war on plastic
00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:15.360
which is actually a proxy war on fossil
00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:18.510
fuels yeah because they're all made out
00:11:18.510 --> 00:11:20.880
of most plastics are made of fossil
00:11:20.880 --> 00:11:24.030
fuels it's as ridiculous though I gave a
00:11:24.030 --> 00:11:27.210
presentation today to a board meeting in
00:11:27.210 --> 00:11:29.730
downtown Toronto where I showed them
00:11:29.730 --> 00:11:32.520
that this sea of garbage in the Pacific
00:11:32.520 --> 00:11:35.040
that that's twice the size of Texas yeah
00:11:35.040 --> 00:11:38.730
does not exist you can take a satellite
00:11:38.730 --> 00:11:40.560
photograph on a cloudless day of the
00:11:40.560 --> 00:11:42.600
whole Pacific Ocean and there is nothing
00:11:42.600 --> 00:11:44.940
there except the Hawaiian Islands and
00:11:44.940 --> 00:11:49.170
Fiji right there is no giant patch of
00:11:49.170 --> 00:11:51.810
garbage out there doesn't exist yet but
00:11:51.810 --> 00:11:53.820
no one can see from the land because
00:11:53.820 --> 00:11:55.500
it's way out it's out in the Pacific
00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:57.600
Gyre apparently and if you go on the
00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.580
internet you see all these maps of the
00:11:59.580 --> 00:12:02.730
world with photoshopped seas of garbage
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in them it's not real this is an
00:12:06.770 --> 00:12:09.450
exhilaration but it really comes in I'm
00:12:09.450 --> 00:12:10.530
glad you're talking about that
00:12:10.530 --> 00:12:12.810
particular bit of business this is all
00:12:12.810 --> 00:12:14.520
from the other side of the fence in a
00:12:14.520 --> 00:12:15.750
certain kind of way because I didn't
00:12:15.750 --> 00:12:17.100
have your background more that's the
00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:19.740
opposite why is it that when all the
00:12:19.740 --> 00:12:21.660
great news organizations of this world
00:12:21.660 --> 00:12:24.360
that a story is big as twice the size of
00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:26.970
Texas a physical object in an ocean and
00:12:26.970 --> 00:12:29.400
we're in the 24 hour satellite age and
00:12:29.400 --> 00:12:31.530
the news media you have the money why
00:12:31.530 --> 00:12:34.470
don't they go out and look and say well
00:12:34.470 --> 00:12:36.720
we couldn't find the damn thing or bring
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:38.130
the organizers and we're saying and
00:12:38.130 --> 00:12:39.930
we're gonna ban this or we're gonna fix
00:12:39.930 --> 00:12:42.360
it or whatever show it to us when you
00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:44.490
confront them first they use all kinds
00:12:44.490 --> 00:12:46.170
of fake images to make it look like
00:12:46.170 --> 00:12:47.940
there's something and they they show
00:12:47.940 --> 00:12:51.030
Birds cut open full of plastic right
00:12:51.030 --> 00:12:53.100
it's staged no there's no such
00:12:53.100 --> 00:12:55.130
possibility as that ever happening and
00:12:55.130 --> 00:13:00.630
so there's all that but then when you
00:13:00.630 --> 00:13:02.580
challenge them on it like you say look
00:13:02.580 --> 00:13:04.050
here's a picture of the Pacific Ocean
00:13:04.050 --> 00:13:06.510
there's no Giants thing size twice the
00:13:06.510 --> 00:13:08.340
size of Texas if all you can see is the
00:13:08.340 --> 00:13:09.720
Hawaiian Islands they're not twice the
00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:12.300
size of Texas you know so you can bet
00:13:12.300 --> 00:13:13.950
you can see them and you can't see the
00:13:13.950 --> 00:13:16.740
Garbage Patch they say oh it's only the
00:13:16.740 --> 00:13:17.490
clear plan
00:13:17.490 --> 00:13:20.430
stick that's in the guru someone
00:13:20.430 --> 00:13:22.770
actually said that to me as if it sorts
00:13:22.770 --> 00:13:26.520
itself out by color and then the next
00:13:26.520 --> 00:13:29.370
one I got was it's just under water
00:13:29.370 --> 00:13:31.890
right like it's got a buoyancy
00:13:31.890 --> 00:13:33.630
compensation device on every piece of
00:13:33.630 --> 00:13:35.580
plastic or something no
00:13:35.580 --> 00:13:38.220
so things either sink or float generally
00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:40.200
in the ocean they don't go down to feed
00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:42.779
and stay the size of Texas they do yeah
00:13:42.779 --> 00:13:46.080
and then when you bust them on that they
00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:49.279
say well it's actually micro plastic and
00:13:49.279 --> 00:13:51.690
that means you can't see it of course
00:13:51.690 --> 00:13:53.610
but as soon as the size detects oh of
00:13:53.610 --> 00:13:54.149
course
00:13:54.149 --> 00:13:57.060
yes each particle is not quite the size
00:13:57.060 --> 00:13:58.800
of Texas though because it's so small
00:13:58.800 --> 00:14:01.740
you need a microscope to see it and then
00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:03.510
they conjure up this image of all the
00:14:03.510 --> 00:14:05.760
fish in all the birds having giant wads
00:14:05.760 --> 00:14:08.220
of built-up micro plastic in their
00:14:08.220 --> 00:14:10.320
kidneys or somewhere in their livers I
00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:12.149
don't know where it's not true because
00:14:12.149 --> 00:14:14.880
when you ingest something like a piece
00:14:14.880 --> 00:14:17.279
of plastic even microplastic your body
00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.770
knows it's not food it just kicks it out
00:14:19.770 --> 00:14:22.410
the other end right I mean that that's
00:14:22.410 --> 00:14:24.660
what you do well to pick it up I don't
00:14:24.660 --> 00:14:26.970
have any problem seeing that this is an
00:14:26.970 --> 00:14:30.779
invention even in in the locale where I
00:14:30.779 --> 00:14:35.370
am presently today one only didn't need
00:14:35.370 --> 00:14:37.829
name it the Sobeys they've announced
00:14:37.829 --> 00:14:39.750
said in three weeks that if you got five
00:14:39.750 --> 00:14:42.000
tens of means and six times six packets
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:43.709
of macaroni dinner and some ice cream
00:14:43.709 --> 00:14:45.240
you're either gonna have the car in your
00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:46.890
hand or buy another bag that's the whole
00:14:46.890 --> 00:14:49.170
grocery is not going to give any bags or
00:14:49.170 --> 00:14:53.459
seldom why is it so easy for these fads
00:14:53.459 --> 00:14:55.339
to take hold in municipalities
00:14:55.339 --> 00:14:57.839
supermarkets corporations kind of
00:14:57.839 --> 00:14:59.850
vibrating their own virtual why do
00:14:59.850 --> 00:15:04.050
people buy into it I guess they have too
00:15:04.050 --> 00:15:06.750
much time on their hands believe it I'm
00:15:06.750 --> 00:15:09.270
not sure look at the straw thing I know
00:15:09.270 --> 00:15:10.079
right
00:15:10.079 --> 00:15:11.880
like as if turtles have got straws
00:15:11.880 --> 00:15:13.350
sticking out of their eyes everywhere in
00:15:13.350 --> 00:15:15.120
the ocean I think they poked a straw in
00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:16.740
a turtle's eye and took a picture of it
00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:18.240
I'm honest to god I'm sure that's what
00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:21.540
they did but if you go to Costco now you
00:15:21.540 --> 00:15:23.730
can't have the straw in that flimsy
00:15:23.730 --> 00:15:25.770
plastic thing that goes on top of the
00:15:25.770 --> 00:15:27.990
yeah paper cup you have to have this
00:15:27.990 --> 00:15:31.110
dome piece of plastic with a most place
00:15:31.110 --> 00:15:31.470
to put
00:15:31.470 --> 00:15:34.860
your mouth right the dome thing has more
00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:37.290
plastic in it than the old thing did
00:15:37.290 --> 00:15:40.080
with the straw in it and the flimsy top
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:43.410
there's more plastic there and it makes
00:15:43.410 --> 00:15:45.800
no sense at all to be against plastic
00:15:45.800 --> 00:15:47.850
especially seeing as though there is no
00:15:47.850 --> 00:15:50.340
giant patch of plastic garbage in the
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:50.850
ocean
00:15:50.850 --> 00:15:52.410
well it's friend of mine I'll pass this
00:15:52.410 --> 00:15:54.210
on to you you might want to use it as an
00:15:54.210 --> 00:15:56.370
anecdote he went to one of the ski
00:15:56.370 --> 00:15:58.890
lodges somewhere in the Rockies in
00:15:58.890 --> 00:16:01.140
Alberta and I don't know we had to fly
00:16:01.140 --> 00:16:03.570
in or not but its way up and it's way
00:16:03.570 --> 00:16:06.930
out and specialized it's fairly near the
00:16:06.930 --> 00:16:09.660
top of one of the peaks and in that
00:16:09.660 --> 00:16:13.530
isolated sybaritic an expensive chalet
00:16:13.530 --> 00:16:15.720
when he went to get his drink he was
00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:18.390
told that we don't have plastics from
00:16:18.390 --> 00:16:20.610
here weren't any virtues - we don't use
00:16:20.610 --> 00:16:23.340
plastic straws anymore so he started to
00:16:23.340 --> 00:16:25.590
think and he sees under a mountaintop in
00:16:25.590 --> 00:16:27.720
Alberta and they're worried about this
00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:29.880
disease and cramming straws in the
00:16:29.880 --> 00:16:32.040
turtle's eyes and he said well how does
00:16:32.040 --> 00:16:34.170
a straw getting from here and to the
00:16:34.170 --> 00:16:37.560
Pacific surprise their ingenious those
00:16:37.560 --> 00:16:44.010
straws grow legs just leads to another
00:16:44.010 --> 00:16:46.050
easy thing when you hear about the
00:16:46.050 --> 00:16:49.260
plastic bags or the straws or City
00:16:49.260 --> 00:16:51.060
Council's we're gonna blatent straws and
00:16:51.060 --> 00:16:52.650
everyone this is wonderful it gets on
00:16:52.650 --> 00:16:55.320
all the six o'clock newscast and then
00:16:55.320 --> 00:16:56.940
Divac turn on the other moment you got
00:16:56.940 --> 00:16:58.500
agree to Thornburg telling you you got
00:16:58.500 --> 00:17:00.450
five years to live how do you go from
00:17:00.450 --> 00:17:03.180
such trivia and such inconsequential
00:17:03.180 --> 00:17:05.970
gestures to Apocalypse all within the
00:17:05.970 --> 00:17:09.960
same Missy mental cloud
00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:14.820
I absolutely at a loss of words to
00:17:14.820 --> 00:17:18.240
describe my feelings about that I mean I
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:20.430
cannot understand how the world could
00:17:20.430 --> 00:17:22.680
have come to that when the Enlightenment
00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:24.630
you know was supposed to be about using
00:17:24.630 --> 00:17:27.750
logic and science to address public
00:17:27.750 --> 00:17:30.720
policy issues and just in general to
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.480
address knowledge and now we've got to
00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:36.360
this point like what does it look like
00:17:36.360 --> 00:17:37.950
when the world comes to an end does it
00:17:37.950 --> 00:17:41.280
actually explode or what how can the
00:17:41.280 --> 00:17:42.360
world come to an end
00:17:42.360 --> 00:17:44.640
and they're saying that those words
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.410
you're saying in 12 years it's circling
00:17:46.410 --> 00:17:51.330
in live and of course it won't I would
00:17:51.330 --> 00:17:53.640
make that prediction and quite you know
00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:57.540
positively great but when they when this
00:17:57.540 --> 00:18:00.720
claim is made unmade so both vociferous
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:02.059
ly and by the highest international
00:18:02.059 --> 00:18:05.640
organizations and by kind of totem
00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:07.620
spokespersons and then the next day
00:18:07.620 --> 00:18:09.720
someone says well in in Windsor
00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:11.429
Newfoundland we're gonna bland plastic
00:18:11.429 --> 00:18:13.799
straws there's no connection between the
00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:17.700
gesture and the imminent global peril
00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:20.010
it's all co2 that's causing this problem
00:18:20.010 --> 00:18:22.410
yes something that's invisible and
00:18:22.410 --> 00:18:24.390
that's like the Garbage Patch and so
00:18:24.390 --> 00:18:27.270
I've got a new presentation that I've
00:18:27.270 --> 00:18:29.790
started with an essay and I now got a
00:18:29.790 --> 00:18:31.919
full PowerPoint presentation called the
00:18:31.919 --> 00:18:34.559
fake invisible catastrophes and threats
00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:37.290
of doom and it turns out wrecks
00:18:37.290 --> 00:18:39.330
I never realized it was quite this
00:18:39.330 --> 00:18:41.100
widespread until I started thinking
00:18:41.100 --> 00:18:43.950
about it again that nearly every scare
00:18:43.950 --> 00:18:47.669
story about the environment is based on
00:18:47.669 --> 00:18:49.620
something that is either invisible
00:18:49.620 --> 00:18:53.400
completely like co2 for example what's
00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:55.710
ever bad in a GMO has anybody ever seen
00:18:55.710 --> 00:18:56.549
it on a plate
00:18:56.549 --> 00:18:59.130
it's another scandal where is that where
00:18:59.130 --> 00:19:00.660
is the thing that you're supposed to not
00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:03.900
eat and and then of course there's
00:19:03.900 --> 00:19:07.470
remoteness like polar bears yeah no one
00:19:07.470 --> 00:19:10.049
can go and count them by themselves so
00:19:10.049 --> 00:19:13.710
if something is invisible remote or both
00:19:13.710 --> 00:19:17.040
like Laurel reefs right there they're
00:19:17.040 --> 00:19:19.410
underwater and only a few people go and
00:19:19.410 --> 00:19:21.270
see them and very few people are
00:19:21.270 --> 00:19:22.500
actually studying them
00:19:22.500 --> 00:19:24.480
most of those are on government grants
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:26.970
and are inclined to make it seem as
00:19:26.970 --> 00:19:28.620
though the reefs are in far more danger
00:19:28.620 --> 00:19:30.630
than they actually are so they can get
00:19:30.630 --> 00:19:32.640
another grant next year to study them
00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:34.320
some more so like the polar bears even
00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:36.410
like the polar bears and so it turns out
00:19:36.410 --> 00:19:40.110
that nearly every scare is based on
00:19:40.110 --> 00:19:42.240
something invisible remote or both and
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.520
that means that the public has to get
00:19:44.520 --> 00:19:46.380
its information from the activists the
00:19:46.380 --> 00:19:49.679
media and the scientists who are
00:19:49.679 --> 00:19:52.260
studying these things they cannot verify
00:19:52.260 --> 00:19:54.600
it with their own eyes and observation
00:19:54.600 --> 00:19:56.220
and verification are the basis of
00:19:56.220 --> 00:19:57.390
science
00:19:57.390 --> 00:19:59.400
and replication and replication right so
00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:01.650
there there there in every case they're
00:20:01.650 --> 00:20:04.970
picking issues that cannot be verified
00:20:04.970 --> 00:20:08.460
by the individual person in in in the
00:20:08.460 --> 00:20:10.740
world and and they're baking up stories
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:12.270
like the stories about the Great Barrier
00:20:12.270 --> 00:20:16.290
Reef dying in in April of 2016 around
00:20:16.290 --> 00:20:19.020
the world shot the 93% of the Great
00:20:19.020 --> 00:20:22.500
Barrier Reef is bleached which implied
00:20:22.500 --> 00:20:24.270
in the story that it was dying or dead
00:20:24.270 --> 00:20:26.520
yeah of course right well the actual
00:20:26.520 --> 00:20:29.429
fact the data point under that was that
00:20:29.429 --> 00:20:32.640
93% of the reefs in the northern section
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.040
of the Great Barrier there's northern
00:20:35.040 --> 00:20:38.130
central and southern and the northern is
00:20:38.130 --> 00:20:42.090
the warmest 93% of the reefs may say
00:20:42.090 --> 00:20:45.540
there's 200 reefs have have experienced
00:20:45.540 --> 00:20:48.780
some bleaching that was the that that
00:20:48.780 --> 00:20:51.179
was the actual data so it could be one
00:20:51.179 --> 00:20:53.250
percent bleaching on each reef yeah that
00:20:53.250 --> 00:20:55.200
would be some bleaching on or on 93
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.480
percent of the reefs so that's how they
00:20:57.480 --> 00:20:59.309
exaggerated that and went all around the
00:20:59.309 --> 00:21:01.530
world on every network like every day
00:21:01.530 --> 00:21:04.590
for weeks and then the next year the
00:21:04.590 --> 00:21:08.940
word was terminal in 2017 the Great
00:21:08.940 --> 00:21:11.850
Barrier Reef is now terminal and just
00:21:11.850 --> 00:21:14.640
like on the fake news on TV every one of
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:16.710
those stations uses the same phrase like
00:21:16.710 --> 00:21:18.240
as if someone's given them the same
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:21.390
talking point and/or the same word to
00:21:21.390 --> 00:21:25.110
describe an issue the same thing happens
00:21:25.110 --> 00:21:26.730
with the newspapers there they used the
00:21:26.730 --> 00:21:28.260
word terminal terminal terminal terminal
00:21:28.260 --> 00:21:31.470
all around the world within eighteen
00:21:31.470 --> 00:21:33.750
months the headlines were Great Barrier
00:21:33.750 --> 00:21:36.870
Reef surprisingly is recovering right
00:21:36.870 --> 00:21:38.340
well it was never dead in the first
00:21:38.340 --> 00:21:41.730
place and this guy Peter rid professor
00:21:41.730 --> 00:21:43.799
peter rid at James Cook University in
00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:47.040
Queensland Australia was fired a year
00:21:47.040 --> 00:21:49.980
and a half or two ago and he went
00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:52.080
crowdfunding and got the money to defend
00:21:52.080 --> 00:21:54.360
him to file a lawsuit against the
00:21:54.360 --> 00:21:57.179
university for dismissal improper
00:21:57.179 --> 00:22:00.120
dismissal and defamation and the judge
00:22:00.120 --> 00:22:02.280
in the federal court awarded him 1.2
00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:06.630
million dollars and had 18 points about
00:22:06.630 --> 00:22:09.200
what the university had done wrong
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:11.870
firing you know the university has
00:22:11.870 --> 00:22:15.200
appealed or using public money it's
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:16.820
gonna cause Peter rid over a million
00:22:16.820 --> 00:22:20.480
dollars to defend himself or to continue
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:22.850
with the case at a higher court he's
00:22:22.850 --> 00:22:24.230
going to get the money and he's gonna
00:22:24.230 --> 00:22:28.309
win because now seven of the researchers
00:22:28.309 --> 00:22:33.019
at James Cook University are are charged
00:22:33.019 --> 00:22:35.870
with fraud in the coral reef and other
00:22:35.870 --> 00:22:39.350
studies and so they I believe that the
00:22:39.350 --> 00:22:43.090
scientists in the coral reef cabal in
00:22:43.090 --> 00:22:46.279
the academic world in Australia the
00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:48.230
reason they're doing this is so they can
00:22:48.230 --> 00:22:50.269
get their asking for half a billion
00:22:50.269 --> 00:22:52.700
dollars a year for more research now you
00:22:52.700 --> 00:22:54.769
tell me how research can save the reef
00:22:54.769 --> 00:22:57.559
from dying even if it was right what are
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:00.679
they gonna do to prevent it from dying
00:23:00.679 --> 00:23:04.850
by studying it it's it's this this is
00:23:04.850 --> 00:23:06.590
liable to blow the lid off ocean
00:23:06.590 --> 00:23:09.260
acidification to that if you've heard
00:23:09.260 --> 00:23:12.289
that term it's totally bogus it is
00:23:12.289 --> 00:23:15.350
absolutely a fabrication of when when
00:23:15.350 --> 00:23:16.909
the temperature stopped rising around
00:23:16.909 --> 00:23:19.399
year 2000 and the so called hiatus or
00:23:19.399 --> 00:23:22.010
pause came along they had to come up
00:23:22.010 --> 00:23:25.010
with something to keep the ball rolling
00:23:25.010 --> 00:23:27.200
on the climate change thing and they
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.720
invented this idea of ocean
00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:32.750
acidification where increased co2 would
00:23:32.750 --> 00:23:36.169
increase the acidity of the ocean they
00:23:36.169 --> 00:23:38.149
always use that word actually what
00:23:38.149 --> 00:23:39.710
they're really talking about was that it
00:23:39.710 --> 00:23:41.990
would reduce the alkalinity because the
00:23:41.990 --> 00:23:43.909
oceans can never be acidic they have so
00:23:43.909 --> 00:23:46.190
much buffering capacity and salts in
00:23:46.190 --> 00:23:48.230
them like calcium and sodium that they
00:23:48.230 --> 00:23:51.080
will always be they always be basic or
00:23:51.080 --> 00:23:53.809
alkaline rather than acidic fresh water
00:23:53.809 --> 00:23:56.000
is generally a little bit acidic the
00:23:56.000 --> 00:23:58.429
rainfall rainfall is acidic it has no
00:23:58.429 --> 00:24:02.210
salts in it to make it basic and so and
00:24:02.210 --> 00:24:04.010
so this is a total fabrication there's
00:24:04.010 --> 00:24:06.529
no possibility that increased co2 could
00:24:06.529 --> 00:24:08.870
cause any problem with the alkalinity or
00:24:08.870 --> 00:24:11.779
acidity of the oceans and in fact the
00:24:11.779 --> 00:24:14.389
the least alkaline place in the oceans
00:24:14.389 --> 00:24:16.789
is the Humboldt Current off Peru where
00:24:16.789 --> 00:24:20.570
there's high co2 and it is responsible
00:24:20.570 --> 00:24:22.560
for 20% of the world's fish catch
00:24:22.560 --> 00:24:24.900
so actually co2 just like in the air
00:24:24.900 --> 00:24:27.210
where it fertilizes the trees and the
00:24:27.210 --> 00:24:28.820
crops and the plants the higher it gets
00:24:28.820 --> 00:24:31.140
there's every plant out there in the
00:24:31.140 --> 00:24:33.270
real world if it's getting enough water
00:24:33.270 --> 00:24:35.670
and nutrients from the soil it's
00:24:35.670 --> 00:24:38.340
starving starving for co2 even at this
00:24:38.340 --> 00:24:40.860
level today three things one is just an
00:24:40.860 --> 00:24:42.570
incidental but I don't want to let it go
00:24:42.570 --> 00:24:43.980
then I want to go a bit more general
00:24:43.980 --> 00:24:46.890
when I hear our own government not being
00:24:46.890 --> 00:24:49.410
partisan they're not but when I hear our
00:24:49.410 --> 00:24:51.720
own government reiterate for the
00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:54.510
millionth time that we must put a tax on
00:24:54.510 --> 00:24:58.050
pollution and they said it's carbon
00:24:58.050 --> 00:25:00.390
dioxide is a pollutant what are they
00:25:00.390 --> 00:25:01.700
saying
00:25:01.700 --> 00:25:04.200
they are saying that carbon dioxide
00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:06.540
shouldn't be there in those quantities
00:25:06.540 --> 00:25:08.670
because people first think that
00:25:08.670 --> 00:25:10.800
pollution is a science word it's not
00:25:10.800 --> 00:25:13.020
something as dirt yes but it's also a
00:25:13.020 --> 00:25:14.220
judgment yeah
00:25:14.220 --> 00:25:16.500
it's people it's it's people deciding
00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:18.510
that a certain thing shouldn't be there
00:25:18.510 --> 00:25:21.420
now yeah right it is just like some
00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:23.970
things are not a pollutant like gasoline
00:25:23.970 --> 00:25:26.550
isn't a pollutant in your gas tank it's
00:25:26.550 --> 00:25:29.310
meant to be there right but on what's
00:25:29.310 --> 00:25:31.110
it's a pollutant if you dump it in the
00:25:31.110 --> 00:25:33.210
water in the river but in what possible
00:25:33.210 --> 00:25:36.450
or regions of mind or atmosphere is one
00:25:36.450 --> 00:25:38.850
of the key elements of nature in itself
00:25:38.850 --> 00:25:41.610
a pollutant well this the problem is is
00:25:41.610 --> 00:25:44.580
under Obama the EPA in the United States
00:25:44.580 --> 00:25:47.520
ruled that co2 was a pollutant an air
00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:49.680
pollutant under the Clean Air Act so
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:52.140
they've put it in that category when in
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:53.700
fact it's the most important food for
00:25:53.700 --> 00:25:55.980
life on earth it's reverse it is the
00:25:55.980 --> 00:25:58.620
opposite yes and right right now co2 is
00:25:58.620 --> 00:26:01.320
still at extremely low levels even with
00:26:01.320 --> 00:26:03.870
what we've put in compared to the
00:26:03.870 --> 00:26:06.420
history of co2 co2 is it now just over
00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:09.240
400 parts per million when we started it
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:12.210
was at 280 during the height of the last
00:26:12.210 --> 00:26:14.360
glaciation it had gone down to 180
00:26:14.360 --> 00:26:16.800
nothing to do with us but because when
00:26:16.800 --> 00:26:19.500
the Seas cool they absorb gases from the
00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:22.530
atmosphere and with co2 so low in the
00:26:22.530 --> 00:26:25.380
atmosphere now the oceans contain 45
00:26:25.380 --> 00:26:28.770
times as much co2 as the atmosphere so
00:26:28.770 --> 00:26:31.560
during the glacial cycles as the sea
00:26:31.560 --> 00:26:33.870
cools down in the in the peaks of the
00:26:33.870 --> 00:26:36.179
glaciations the the ciub
00:26:36.179 --> 00:26:39.720
orbs co2 from the atmosphere and the sea
00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:42.570
can absorb 1% more co2 and that makes
00:26:42.570 --> 00:26:44.669
the atmosphere lose 45 percent of its
00:26:44.669 --> 00:26:48.059
co2 and just because of the ratio gotcha
00:26:48.059 --> 00:26:50.490
and so and when the Seas warm they give
00:26:50.490 --> 00:26:52.590
off co2 so coming out of the last
00:26:52.590 --> 00:26:55.860
glaciation co2 went from 180 which is
00:26:55.860 --> 00:26:57.929
only 30 parts per million above the
00:26:57.929 --> 00:27:00.629
death of plants in other words since the
00:27:00.629 --> 00:27:03.029
beginning of life on earth co2 has
00:27:03.029 --> 00:27:05.220
gradually declined from six to ten
00:27:05.220 --> 00:27:07.919
thousand parts per million to at the
00:27:07.919 --> 00:27:10.169
beginning of modern life about 4 to 6
00:27:10.169 --> 00:27:13.559
parts per million for 4 to 6 thousand
00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:16.409
parts per million and then gradually for
00:27:16.409 --> 00:27:18.690
the last hundred and fifty million years
00:27:18.690 --> 00:27:23.669
has gone from 2,500 to 180 180 to 80 400
00:27:23.669 --> 00:27:26.340
and that yes and now 400 so we have
00:27:26.340 --> 00:27:27.929
actually restored a balance to the
00:27:27.929 --> 00:27:30.480
global carbon cycle to a small extent
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:32.490
but we haven't brought it back up
00:27:32.490 --> 00:27:34.350
anywhere near it was when the massive
00:27:34.350 --> 00:27:37.369
forests Carboniferous forests were were
00:27:37.369 --> 00:27:40.440
flourishing in high co2 environment and
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:42.419
going up at the very beginning when you
00:27:42.419 --> 00:27:44.999
came out of your small town when you
00:27:44.999 --> 00:27:46.889
interested in nature you did all the
00:27:46.889 --> 00:27:49.259
University study you became activists
00:27:49.259 --> 00:27:52.320
with Greenpeace so you've seen the
00:27:52.320 --> 00:27:55.580
emergence of environmentalism and
00:27:55.580 --> 00:27:57.539
concern for the environment they're
00:27:57.539 --> 00:28:00.119
slightly different and so you've seen
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:02.610
how these things grow how do you as a
00:28:02.610 --> 00:28:05.480
trained mind in this particular field
00:28:05.480 --> 00:28:09.509
account for the enormous grip that this
00:28:09.509 --> 00:28:12.869
this last 20 25 years I'll call it of
00:28:12.869 --> 00:28:15.840
the spherical alarmism with reference to
00:28:15.840 --> 00:28:18.749
co2 and the death of the planet that has
00:28:18.749 --> 00:28:21.299
swept the globe newspapers most
00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:24.629
academics middle-class speak to the
00:28:24.629 --> 00:28:26.909
point where most people are afraid to
00:28:26.909 --> 00:28:29.220
say even if they disbelieve it to say
00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:32.460
that they disbelieve there's a bunch of
00:28:32.460 --> 00:28:34.590
elements to it I think one is that there
00:28:34.590 --> 00:28:36.749
is no other impending apocalypse like
00:28:36.749 --> 00:28:39.659
all-out nuclear war there's no world war
00:28:39.659 --> 00:28:42.269
underway right now there was Wars going
00:28:42.269 --> 00:28:43.919
back into history forever always
00:28:43.919 --> 00:28:46.889
happening huge huge conflicts happening
00:28:46.889 --> 00:28:48.450
all through history we've had the most
00:28:48.450 --> 00:28:49.740
peaceful period
00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:52.020
in the history of humanity pretty well
00:28:52.020 --> 00:28:55.470
since 1945 exactly so that's one thing
00:28:55.470 --> 00:28:57.660
is people don't have anything really bad
00:28:57.660 --> 00:28:59.490
other to where you actually need
00:28:59.490 --> 00:29:01.530
something but this is another problem
00:29:01.530 --> 00:29:03.900
the end is nigh guy on the street corner
00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:05.309
has been there since the beginning of
00:29:05.309 --> 00:29:07.950
time right so the end times
00:29:07.950 --> 00:29:11.130
apocalypse doomsday is deeply buried in
00:29:11.130 --> 00:29:13.230
our brains and whether that is a
00:29:13.230 --> 00:29:16.080
collective thing or whether it's just a
00:29:16.080 --> 00:29:18.090
projection of our own fear of deaths you
00:29:18.090 --> 00:29:20.100
see I don't buy into any of these things
00:29:20.100 --> 00:29:21.690
because I've never been afraid of my own
00:29:21.690 --> 00:29:24.330
death and but I think a lot of people
00:29:24.330 --> 00:29:26.940
are and even even if it's fairly deep
00:29:26.940 --> 00:29:29.580
psychologically they think that when
00:29:29.580 --> 00:29:31.370
they die that's the end of the world I
00:29:31.370 --> 00:29:34.260
think but that's one way of looking at
00:29:34.260 --> 00:29:36.540
it another aspect of it is the modern
00:29:36.540 --> 00:29:40.530
communication system has made it so that
00:29:40.530 --> 00:29:43.620
you have five six if you count Hollywood
00:29:43.620 --> 00:29:45.300
and the media as two separate things
00:29:45.300 --> 00:29:47.490
or five if you count them as one in the
00:29:47.490 --> 00:29:50.309
same or less so you start with let's
00:29:50.309 --> 00:29:52.230
just start with the green movement okay
00:29:52.230 --> 00:29:57.059
fundraising instilling fear right in the
00:29:57.059 --> 00:29:58.890
in the populace fear and guilt
00:29:58.890 --> 00:30:01.140
so you while you're driving your SUV
00:30:01.140 --> 00:30:03.210
down the road you're afraid you're
00:30:03.210 --> 00:30:05.010
killing your grandchildren and that
00:30:05.010 --> 00:30:05.880
makes you guilty
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:09.210
that opens wallets right so there's the
00:30:09.210 --> 00:30:10.980
fundraising campaigns of the whole green
00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:12.960
movement then you've got the the
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:14.940
politicians and the media the
00:30:14.940 --> 00:30:16.860
politicians want this scare story
00:30:16.860 --> 00:30:18.179
they're buying it actually because
00:30:18.179 --> 00:30:20.340
almost all the money going into climate
00:30:20.340 --> 00:30:22.830
change research is public money from
00:30:22.830 --> 00:30:25.110
politicians who want scare stories to
00:30:25.110 --> 00:30:27.540
scare the electorate and tell them
00:30:27.540 --> 00:30:29.190
they'll save their grand grandchildren
00:30:29.190 --> 00:30:30.900
from a certain death if they vote for
00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:33.540
them and then the media needs sensation
00:30:33.540 --> 00:30:35.790
to sell stories and of course the
00:30:35.790 --> 00:30:37.590
mainstream media is shrinking every
00:30:37.590 --> 00:30:39.420
day's to smaller and smaller as the
00:30:39.420 --> 00:30:42.750
Internet takes over and organizations
00:30:42.750 --> 00:30:44.670
like Ezra lavance and like the post
00:30:44.670 --> 00:30:46.590
millennial and yeah there's a whole
00:30:46.590 --> 00:30:48.900
bunch of still it and yeah and these are
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:50.820
not fake news outlets they're actually
00:30:50.820 --> 00:30:53.429
hard news like it used to be in the
00:30:53.429 --> 00:30:56.390
mainstream media so you've got the media
00:30:56.390 --> 00:30:58.679
participating willingly in this in
00:30:58.679 --> 00:31:01.919
spreading fear then you've got the green
00:31:01.919 --> 00:31:02.800
business
00:31:02.800 --> 00:31:05.860
who are how large is that the crony
00:31:05.860 --> 00:31:07.600
capitalists the whole wind and solar
00:31:07.600 --> 00:31:10.570
industry now Tesla's doing really well
00:31:10.570 --> 00:31:12.640
right now I see but that all started
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:13.930
with the same kind of thing with
00:31:13.930 --> 00:31:16.930
billions of dollars of public money so
00:31:16.930 --> 00:31:19.090
the rent seekers right there's a lot of
00:31:19.090 --> 00:31:20.350
them and there's a lot of money involved
00:31:20.350 --> 00:31:22.060
in that all around the world now that
00:31:22.060 --> 00:31:24.550
mean the cost of climate change research
00:31:24.550 --> 00:31:26.320
is nothing compared to the cost of all
00:31:26.320 --> 00:31:28.570
these wind and solar facilities that are
00:31:28.570 --> 00:31:30.910
being built in response to the science
00:31:30.910 --> 00:31:33.340
so-called science so you've got them and
00:31:33.340 --> 00:31:36.190
then you've got the scientists the
00:31:36.190 --> 00:31:38.470
climate scientists yeah the opposite of
00:31:38.470 --> 00:31:41.260
climate scientist is climate denier yeah
00:31:41.260 --> 00:31:43.870
right that's the language today so if I
00:31:43.870 --> 00:31:45.580
am skeptical even though it doesn't
00:31:45.580 --> 00:31:47.320
matter how many qualifications in
00:31:47.320 --> 00:31:50.380
science I have BS CS and PhDs and years
00:31:50.380 --> 00:31:53.260
of study it doesn't matter if I don't
00:31:53.260 --> 00:31:55.600
buy into the narrative of the
00:31:55.600 --> 00:31:58.780
catastrophic climate emergency then I am
00:31:58.780 --> 00:32:01.060
a climate denier as opposed to a climate
00:32:01.060 --> 00:32:02.740
science what does it say I'm gonna stop
00:32:02.740 --> 00:32:04.180
you not stopping but I interrupt you
00:32:04.180 --> 00:32:06.370
again what does it say that when to
00:32:06.370 --> 00:32:11.200
confute their opponents that one of the
00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:13.030
purest causes that we know which is the
00:32:13.030 --> 00:32:15.340
environment that the advocates of
00:32:15.340 --> 00:32:16.930
environmentalism pick one of the
00:32:16.930 --> 00:32:19.930
dirtiest words of the last century and
00:32:19.930 --> 00:32:22.330
associated with the dirty is deed of the
00:32:22.330 --> 00:32:23.020
last century
00:32:23.020 --> 00:32:25.990
instead of saying Patrick Moore you're
00:32:25.990 --> 00:32:27.490
confused or you were a skeptic or
00:32:27.490 --> 00:32:30.010
whatever it is no word Holocaust of
00:32:30.010 --> 00:32:30.670
silent
00:32:30.670 --> 00:32:33.130
your denier but you're the same moral
00:32:33.130 --> 00:32:38.170
plane as those manic Desperados who
00:32:38.170 --> 00:32:40.570
still hate the jews and deny the
00:32:40.570 --> 00:32:42.790
greatest tragedy ever visited what does
00:32:42.790 --> 00:32:45.040
that tell you about the cause that they
00:32:45.040 --> 00:32:48.190
used that level of absolutely gutless
00:32:48.190 --> 00:32:50.770
rhetoric that they're intellectually and
00:32:50.770 --> 00:32:53.080
scientifically bankrupt and immoral
00:32:53.080 --> 00:32:55.510
I think the immoral part is is the part
00:32:55.510 --> 00:32:56.980
that I think is more interesting it is
00:32:56.980 --> 00:32:59.740
because I would prefer to focus on the
00:32:59.740 --> 00:33:00.940
intellectually and scientifically
00:33:00.940 --> 00:33:04.240
bankrupt because I like to argue facts
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:08.290
and morality is a bit squishier than but
00:33:08.290 --> 00:33:10.360
in in in the business of promoting a
00:33:10.360 --> 00:33:14.080
cause rhetoric in this particular case
00:33:14.080 --> 00:33:17.060
is an index of either sincerity
00:33:17.060 --> 00:33:19.310
cleanliness of mind yeah and if I can't
00:33:19.310 --> 00:33:20.900
deal with you without calling you the
00:33:20.900 --> 00:33:23.810
equivalent of a Holocaust denier I don't
00:33:23.810 --> 00:33:25.850
know why you should listen to me well I
00:33:25.850 --> 00:33:29.330
tend not to anymore actually I've kind
00:33:29.330 --> 00:33:31.310
of given up on the people that talk like
00:33:31.310 --> 00:33:34.130
that it's no use arguing with them it
00:33:34.130 --> 00:33:36.250
actually is a cult if you've seen
00:33:36.250 --> 00:33:38.570
extinction rebellion dressed up in those
00:33:38.570 --> 00:33:40.730
red suits that are sort of a cross
00:33:40.730 --> 00:33:44.470
between Catholic priests and Star Wars
00:33:44.470 --> 00:33:48.230
people it's really bizarre but it's
00:33:48.230 --> 00:33:50.990
obviously that people who dress up all
00:33:50.990 --> 00:33:53.510
exactly the same in a bizarre uniform
00:33:53.510 --> 00:33:57.110
are a cult yeah you wouldn't do I know I
00:33:57.110 --> 00:33:58.700
wouldn't do that with anybody like
00:33:58.700 --> 00:34:00.590
especially not a hundred other people
00:34:00.590 --> 00:34:03.340
all dressed up the same looking like
00:34:03.340 --> 00:34:05.960
some kind of pseudo religious figures
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:08.240
and also like grease of some kind and
00:34:08.240 --> 00:34:10.700
also assuming the the authority to tell
00:34:10.700 --> 00:34:13.010
other people what it is their lives
00:34:13.010 --> 00:34:14.810
should be that's another element of this
00:34:14.810 --> 00:34:16.790
particular cause that because the world
00:34:16.790 --> 00:34:20.810
is at stake but Greta is so wise that's
00:34:20.810 --> 00:34:22.910
I want to ask you specifically about her
00:34:22.910 --> 00:34:25.250
but this is part of it is it in
00:34:25.250 --> 00:34:28.220
rationalism is it some sort of retreat
00:34:28.220 --> 00:34:30.620
to the medieval mindset when does it
00:34:30.620 --> 00:34:33.380
come to pass that the congress's and and
00:34:33.380 --> 00:34:36.080
parliaments of europe and high elements
00:34:36.080 --> 00:34:38.750
prime ministers here are sitting down to
00:34:38.750 --> 00:34:42.350
listen to and not gonna be straight and
00:34:42.350 --> 00:34:44.900
not very well schooled sixteen-year-old
00:34:44.900 --> 00:34:47.090
to get advice on the future of the
00:34:47.090 --> 00:34:50.120
planet is everything upside down pretty
00:34:50.120 --> 00:34:55.250
much I I get in trouble for criticizing
00:34:55.250 --> 00:34:58.220
a girl right they say you shouldn't be
00:34:58.220 --> 00:35:00.130
criticizing a child you're a grown man
00:35:00.130 --> 00:35:02.290
you know and I'm actually not
00:35:02.290 --> 00:35:04.970
criticizing Greta I'm seat but I
00:35:04.970 --> 00:35:07.940
understand that she's a tool and she's a
00:35:07.940 --> 00:35:10.280
tool of Al Gore and Arnold
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:13.520
Schwarzenegger and George Soros and a
00:35:13.520 --> 00:35:16.310
whole cabal including her own parents
00:35:16.310 --> 00:35:18.920
who write most of her tweets
00:35:18.920 --> 00:35:21.200
she's people right for her she didn't
00:35:21.200 --> 00:35:22.520
rate that speech for the you know
00:35:22.520 --> 00:35:25.340
everybody's going to they they just need
00:35:25.340 --> 00:35:28.370
her a Davos you know all those billion
00:35:28.370 --> 00:35:31.940
Aires need her there to advise them what
00:35:31.940 --> 00:35:32.690
a joke
00:35:32.690 --> 00:35:34.790
I think Boris Johnson made the smartest
00:35:34.790 --> 00:35:36.350
first move of his prime ministership
00:35:36.350 --> 00:35:37.940
when he says he's gonna boycott that
00:35:37.940 --> 00:35:41.360
thing right why would you go there and
00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:43.460
hobnob with all those people if if they
00:35:43.460 --> 00:35:48.560
think a 16 year old child can offer them
00:35:48.560 --> 00:35:50.360
advice about the whole future of the
00:35:50.360 --> 00:35:54.740
world give them orders I'm not much I'm
00:35:54.740 --> 00:35:56.930
not jumping at her again but how dare
00:35:56.930 --> 00:35:58.970
you but it is but it is a tactic that
00:35:58.970 --> 00:36:01.370
you appointed a near infant to be your
00:36:01.370 --> 00:36:02.900
spokesperson and then you say oh you're
00:36:02.900 --> 00:36:04.760
attacking in their infant you're not the
00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:06.650
one who put her out there and she isn't
00:36:06.650 --> 00:36:09.080
her own voice I won't argue with tyrants
00:36:09.080 --> 00:36:10.910
and dictators have used children all
00:36:10.910 --> 00:36:13.430
through the centuries whether whether it
00:36:13.430 --> 00:36:16.340
was Stalin or Mao or Hitler they've used
00:36:16.340 --> 00:36:18.470
children waving little flags by the side
00:36:18.470 --> 00:36:20.540
of the street all the time and and I
00:36:20.540 --> 00:36:23.390
mean and it's true that children are
00:36:23.390 --> 00:36:26.780
brought out for royalty sometimes too so
00:36:26.780 --> 00:36:29.930
but they're not political the these
00:36:29.930 --> 00:36:32.360
people are political the ones that work
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:34.670
for tyrants and and well they don't work
00:36:34.670 --> 00:36:36.680
for them they're recruited by them and
00:36:36.680 --> 00:36:41.450
and and and so they're using children to
00:36:41.450 --> 00:36:43.370
get your sympathy I guess because it's
00:36:43.370 --> 00:36:45.110
not because it's not nice to to
00:36:45.110 --> 00:36:47.810
criticize children the green movement
00:36:47.810 --> 00:36:50.420
global warming movement since 1991 I
00:36:50.420 --> 00:36:54.110
suppose done in Rio if I'm correct how
00:36:54.110 --> 00:36:58.070
much of that is or has become not about
00:36:58.070 --> 00:36:59.450
the environment I know there are always
00:36:59.450 --> 00:37:01.160
sincere people there are always some
00:37:01.160 --> 00:37:02.660
people who are doing what they're saying
00:37:02.660 --> 00:37:04.940
that they're doing and trying to save
00:37:04.940 --> 00:37:07.910
what they say they're trying to save but
00:37:07.910 --> 00:37:10.010
then I mobile becomes so powerful so
00:37:10.010 --> 00:37:12.440
widespread so global international
00:37:12.440 --> 00:37:14.420
conferences millions and possibly
00:37:14.420 --> 00:37:17.510
trillions of dollars in various how much
00:37:17.510 --> 00:37:19.700
of the your I want your judgment how
00:37:19.700 --> 00:37:21.530
much of the global warming movement in
00:37:21.530 --> 00:37:24.170
all its facets is just about the
00:37:24.170 --> 00:37:25.870
environment and how much of it is a
00:37:25.870 --> 00:37:28.580
political instrument or instruments for
00:37:28.580 --> 00:37:32.240
far other goals I don't think very much
00:37:32.240 --> 00:37:34.490
of it is actually about the environment
00:37:34.490 --> 00:37:35.320
anymore
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:39.800
most of the campaign's are made up as
00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:42.200
I've explained about the garbage path
00:37:42.200 --> 00:37:44.900
and we with the rivers of Europe have
00:37:44.900 --> 00:37:47.240
been cleaned up you know there's no need
00:37:47.240 --> 00:37:49.460
to clean them up anymore now where the
00:37:49.460 --> 00:37:52.280
real work is to be done is in Asia and
00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:54.950
there is a plastic pollution problem in
00:37:54.950 --> 00:37:56.750
Asia they throw it all in the rivers and
00:37:56.750 --> 00:37:59.660
they throw all their spoiled vegetables
00:37:59.660 --> 00:38:01.430
and stuff in the rivers too it's just
00:38:01.430 --> 00:38:03.349
their habit that's how you get rid of it
00:38:03.349 --> 00:38:06.890
and that kills the river because it's
00:38:06.890 --> 00:38:08.660
just too much organic matter in there
00:38:08.660 --> 00:38:10.490
and the plastic is just a big mess in
00:38:10.490 --> 00:38:12.320
the mouths of rivers in Indonesia and
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:15.320
not so bad in Indian you know I think
00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:17.060
they're doing better and they're all
00:38:17.060 --> 00:38:19.579
doing better in fact it is improving all
00:38:19.579 --> 00:38:21.530
around the world and it's really not the
00:38:21.530 --> 00:38:23.480
environmental movement that is doing it
00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:25.280
they're they're making all their noise
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:26.780
over here we've where we've already
00:38:26.780 --> 00:38:29.030
pretty much cleaned to place up there's
00:38:29.030 --> 00:38:31.280
actually I notice on the West Coast
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:33.140
beaches on the Pacific where I'm where I
00:38:33.140 --> 00:38:36.020
live there's way less plastic garbage on
00:38:36.020 --> 00:38:37.400
the beaches now than there used to be
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:41.480
way less all people like clean things
00:38:41.480 --> 00:38:43.579
well fishermen have stopped throwing all
00:38:43.579 --> 00:38:46.220
their yeah old nets and old floats and
00:38:46.220 --> 00:38:48.140
stuff in the ocean and bring them back
00:38:48.140 --> 00:38:50.690
to the dock and put them in a bin you
00:38:50.690 --> 00:38:51.859
know and then there were ever they go
00:38:51.859 --> 00:38:53.180
from there but they don't go into the
00:38:53.180 --> 00:38:57.079
ocean at least but so not much of it is
00:38:57.079 --> 00:38:59.089
really about environmentalism anymore I
00:38:59.089 --> 00:39:01.400
saw as I was leaving Greenpeace in the
00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:05.000
in the mid-80s a lot of people in the
00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:07.310
Greenpeace office here in Toronto
00:39:07.310 --> 00:39:09.859
wearing red berets and fatigues sort of
00:39:09.859 --> 00:39:12.650
like je Guevara that whole Che Guevara
00:39:12.650 --> 00:39:15.369
type thing and so I saw a Greenpeace
00:39:15.369 --> 00:39:18.079
hijacked by the political left at that
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:21.140
time and it's because we had gained fame
00:39:21.140 --> 00:39:24.079
and power yeah and some money ability
00:39:24.079 --> 00:39:27.680
and they just came in and we were far
00:39:27.680 --> 00:39:29.270
too innocent to deal with these people
00:39:29.270 --> 00:39:31.040
they were politically much more astute
00:39:31.040 --> 00:39:34.970
than we were and just a whole bunch of
00:39:34.970 --> 00:39:38.359
reasons it basically got transformed
00:39:38.359 --> 00:39:43.180
into a left-wing movement when obviously
00:39:43.180 --> 00:39:45.589
ecology and environmentalism should be
00:39:45.589 --> 00:39:47.240
right down the middle politically yeah
00:39:47.240 --> 00:39:49.310
it should because everybody needs the
00:39:49.310 --> 00:39:51.890
environment and there are good ideas on
00:39:51.890 --> 00:39:53.750
both the right and left for solving
00:39:53.750 --> 00:39:55.390
environmental problems
00:39:55.390 --> 00:39:58.390
on the Left there's regulation and on
00:39:58.390 --> 00:40:00.430
the right there's free markets to
00:40:00.430 --> 00:40:03.789
distribute goods services and policies
00:40:03.789 --> 00:40:05.920
in the most efficient possible way and
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:08.589
not to waste your money so there you can
00:40:08.589 --> 00:40:11.369
think of all kinds of examples
00:40:11.369 --> 00:40:14.049
conservatism is sometimes the right way
00:40:14.049 --> 00:40:15.640
to go as a matter of fact the word
00:40:15.640 --> 00:40:17.589
conservation comes from the word
00:40:17.589 --> 00:40:20.230
conservative yeah so environmentalists
00:40:20.230 --> 00:40:22.420
who are conservationists are often
00:40:22.420 --> 00:40:24.130
conservative ducks Unlimited
00:40:24.130 --> 00:40:26.740
for example who've done a huge amount of
00:40:26.740 --> 00:40:29.740
good work and the Nature Conservancy
00:40:29.740 --> 00:40:31.809
it's actually one of the very biggest of
00:40:31.809 --> 00:40:33.190
the environmental groups in North
00:40:33.190 --> 00:40:36.039
America and they they don't steal
00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:38.349
people's land they buy it and turn it
00:40:38.349 --> 00:40:40.390
into a preserve or a park for some
00:40:40.390 --> 00:40:42.519
endangered species or just because it's
00:40:42.519 --> 00:40:45.609
a beautiful part of the of the ecosystem
00:40:45.609 --> 00:40:47.890
or of the geography of a place so
00:40:47.890 --> 00:40:49.900
there's there's good environmentalism
00:40:49.900 --> 00:40:53.319
being done on on that side and on the
00:40:53.319 --> 00:40:56.500
left it's mostly politics and that's why
00:40:56.500 --> 00:40:59.500
I was I was so sorry to see the
00:40:59.500 --> 00:41:02.230
organization that I helped start drift
00:41:02.230 --> 00:41:05.470
into that and nowadays I don't agree
00:41:05.470 --> 00:41:07.150
with much of anything Greenpeace is
00:41:07.150 --> 00:41:10.269
saying the I fought against them on gold
00:41:10.269 --> 00:41:14.230
and rice for 20 years and because they
00:41:14.230 --> 00:41:15.789
were they were they were the ones who
00:41:15.789 --> 00:41:18.269
stopped Golden Rice from being approved
00:41:18.269 --> 00:41:21.369
to feed people who were dying at the
00:41:21.369 --> 00:41:23.319
rate of 2 million children a year and
00:41:23.319 --> 00:41:26.349
going blind at the rate of hundreds of
00:41:26.349 --> 00:41:28.869
thousands a year before they died if you
00:41:28.869 --> 00:41:30.700
die before you go blind you're almost
00:41:30.700 --> 00:41:33.730
lucky you know because they one can come
00:41:33.730 --> 00:41:35.140
before the other with vitamin A
00:41:35.140 --> 00:41:38.410
deficiency but golden rice is it is a
00:41:38.410 --> 00:41:40.180
genetically modified rice it was
00:41:40.180 --> 00:41:43.000
modified for humanitarian reasons by to
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:45.279
humanitarian scientists in Europe Peter
00:41:45.279 --> 00:41:48.220
buyer and Ingo Potrykus who have watched
00:41:48.220 --> 00:41:51.039
for 20 years while the world stops them
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:53.559
from introducing something that can cure
00:41:53.559 --> 00:41:55.470
2 million children dying every year
00:41:55.470 --> 00:41:58.990
overnight a cup or a cup of golden rice
00:41:58.990 --> 00:42:01.000
instead of a cup of white rice which has
00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:04.269
not only no beta-carotene which makes we
00:42:04.269 --> 00:42:07.119
make vitamin A with that has no iron or
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:08.869
zinc or many other nutrients
00:42:08.869 --> 00:42:11.269
it's the worst staple but it's also the
00:42:11.269 --> 00:42:13.249
one that the most poor people uses a
00:42:13.249 --> 00:42:14.989
staple because it's cheaper than the
00:42:14.989 --> 00:42:17.690
other staples and also grows in the
00:42:17.690 --> 00:42:20.809
tropics where most of those people live
00:42:20.809 --> 00:42:23.859
now if if if Golden Rice had been a cure
00:42:23.859 --> 00:42:29.450
for hiv/aids or for dengue or for
00:42:29.450 --> 00:42:32.349
malaria or for Ebola
00:42:32.349 --> 00:42:34.729
it would have been approved within six
00:42:34.729 --> 00:42:36.440
months if it proved efficacious and
00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:39.109
wasn't killing Piell right yet this is a
00:42:39.109 --> 00:42:40.640
side effect of killing people would
00:42:40.640 --> 00:42:42.950
probably rule it out but the side effect
00:42:42.950 --> 00:42:44.329
if you're all your hair falling out
00:42:44.329 --> 00:42:45.739
shouldn't rule it out if it saves your
00:42:45.739 --> 00:42:47.479
life especially if your hair grows back
00:42:47.479 --> 00:42:50.420
again like with chemo you know so most
00:42:50.420 --> 00:42:52.460
medicines are meant to kill something
00:42:52.460 --> 00:42:54.140
that is trying to kill you in other
00:42:54.140 --> 00:42:55.969
words they're poisonous and chemotherapy
00:42:55.969 --> 00:42:58.700
for example the whole idea is to give it
00:42:58.700 --> 00:43:00.920
to you in a dose that will kill the
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:02.569
agent that's trying to kill you without
00:43:02.569 --> 00:43:05.059
killing you right and and and these
00:43:05.059 --> 00:43:07.849
people prevented this for twenty years
00:43:07.849 --> 00:43:10.460
and finally in December eighteenth just
00:43:10.460 --> 00:43:13.069
now the Philippines has approved Golden
00:43:13.069 --> 00:43:15.499
Rice for food and fodder
00:43:15.499 --> 00:43:18.529
so the dam has broken finally and and
00:43:18.529 --> 00:43:21.279
Ingo Potrykus who's very getting on is
00:43:21.279 --> 00:43:24.200
living to see the day when when when
00:43:24.200 --> 00:43:25.729
it's not stopped anymore how do people
00:43:25.729 --> 00:43:28.670
that again quite literally make a
00:43:28.670 --> 00:43:31.999
profession of saying I have a better
00:43:31.999 --> 00:43:34.309
conscience than most people how can they
00:43:34.309 --> 00:43:38.140
possibly reconcile a scare campaign
00:43:38.140 --> 00:43:40.789
against something that would have such
00:43:40.789 --> 00:43:44.420
drastic remedy to so many who are at the
00:43:44.420 --> 00:43:46.249
poorest level of existence I mean how do
00:43:46.249 --> 00:43:48.710
you live with that campaign I'm sure
00:43:48.710 --> 00:43:51.079
glad I didn't have to I was the first
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:53.420
person to start a campaign for Golden
00:43:53.420 --> 00:43:56.269
Rice by the time I started in 2013 it
00:43:56.269 --> 00:43:59.420
was in response to Greenpeace recruiting
00:43:59.420 --> 00:44:01.789
activists in the Philippines to destroy
00:44:01.789 --> 00:44:03.349
the International Rice Research
00:44:03.349 --> 00:44:06.249
Institute's field rice rice field trials
00:44:06.249 --> 00:44:10.130
in outside Manila and they were busting
00:44:10.130 --> 00:44:13.460
all these kids and they and and told
00:44:13.460 --> 00:44:15.710
them they have to tear that out leftist
00:44:15.710 --> 00:44:19.099
kids and they did do that so I vowed
00:44:19.099 --> 00:44:20.989
that morning at my breakfast table with
00:44:20.989 --> 00:44:22.610
my family in winter harbor
00:44:22.610 --> 00:44:24.770
I'm wife and Eileen and my brother my
00:44:24.770 --> 00:44:26.900
brother Michael were there with me and
00:44:26.900 --> 00:44:29.420
we vowed to start a campaign that with
00:44:29.420 --> 00:44:31.160
the would be active and to go to Europe
00:44:31.160 --> 00:44:32.660
and to go to Asian we did all those
00:44:32.660 --> 00:44:35.090
things in a four year period we reached
00:44:35.090 --> 00:44:36.650
a hundred million people through the
00:44:36.650 --> 00:44:38.720
media with positive message about Golden
00:44:38.720 --> 00:44:41.990
Rice and that helped to change the way
00:44:41.990 --> 00:44:43.820
things eventually went for its final
00:44:43.820 --> 00:44:45.770
approval but it's just ridiculous that
00:44:45.770 --> 00:44:48.470
it took 20 years for this to happen you
00:44:48.470 --> 00:44:50.660
know what Greenpeace said they said it
00:44:50.660 --> 00:44:53.320
might cause unforeseen health problems
00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:56.810
that was one of their objections the
00:44:56.810 --> 00:44:58.490
only other objection was that it might
00:44:58.490 --> 00:45:01.280
cause unforeseen environmental problems
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:06.620
that's all really yeah you know it all
00:45:06.620 --> 00:45:08.870
it was was rice with beta carotene in it
00:45:08.870 --> 00:45:10.790
every green plant is full of beta
00:45:10.790 --> 00:45:13.130
carotene every plant needs beta carotene
00:45:13.130 --> 00:45:15.050
and we need the beta carotene to make
00:45:15.050 --> 00:45:18.020
vitamin A with so corn is yellow because
00:45:18.020 --> 00:45:19.430
of beta carotene carrots are orange
00:45:19.430 --> 00:45:21.830
because of beta carotene iSight go blind
00:45:21.830 --> 00:45:23.750
don't eat you don't eat too many enough
00:45:23.750 --> 00:45:24.890
carrots you go blind
00:45:24.890 --> 00:45:27.170
you know that's yeah it's true it's
00:45:27.170 --> 00:45:31.160
actually true and the the they said
00:45:31.160 --> 00:45:32.870
there'd be unforeseen health effects by
00:45:32.870 --> 00:45:34.580
curing 2 million killed children from
00:45:34.580 --> 00:45:35.330
dying
00:45:35.330 --> 00:45:37.100
why don't we I'm switching I don't know
00:45:37.100 --> 00:45:38.480
how they came to that conclusion but
00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:41.240
it's in the same analogous path of logic
00:45:41.240 --> 00:45:43.760
what are we losing or what have we
00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:46.700
displaced or what have we hurt by the
00:45:46.700 --> 00:45:50.600
certainty in the West by the mass
00:45:50.600 --> 00:45:53.360
embrace of this hysteria about global
00:45:53.360 --> 00:45:56.090
warming and a diversion of funds in
00:45:56.090 --> 00:45:58.430
certain scheme Germany I'm thinking
00:45:58.430 --> 00:46:00.530
about right off the top the campaign in
00:46:00.530 --> 00:46:02.450
Canada what are the things that have
00:46:02.450 --> 00:46:05.030
been displaced and hurt because of the
00:46:05.030 --> 00:46:07.300
obsessive and quite successful
00:46:07.300 --> 00:46:10.700
politicization of environmental
00:46:10.700 --> 00:46:13.790
catastrophe brought about by co2 as far
00:46:13.790 --> 00:46:15.770
as I can see the whole thing should be
00:46:15.770 --> 00:46:19.520
positive efforts to improve on on
00:46:19.520 --> 00:46:22.250
forestry to improve on agriculture so
00:46:22.250 --> 00:46:24.650
that we use less land to do those things
00:46:24.650 --> 00:46:26.780
I mean the fact is that that
00:46:26.780 --> 00:46:28.550
improvements in agriculture have
00:46:28.550 --> 00:46:32.300
resulted in a 67 percent reduction in
00:46:32.300 --> 00:46:34.580
the amount of land used to grow the same
00:46:34.580 --> 00:46:35.329
amount of
00:46:35.329 --> 00:46:37.429
which is great just in the last 30 years
00:46:37.429 --> 00:46:39.919
or so and the co2 that we're putting in
00:46:39.919 --> 00:46:42.049
the atmosphere has increased the
00:46:42.049 --> 00:46:44.419
productivity of all food crops and all
00:46:44.419 --> 00:46:47.839
trees and all wild plants by up to 30%
00:46:47.839 --> 00:46:51.169
the the greening of the earth is a known
00:46:51.169 --> 00:46:53.329
fact it's being caused by co2
00:46:53.329 --> 00:46:56.649
fertilization and not only does high co2
00:46:56.649 --> 00:46:59.539
increase the growth rate of all the
00:46:59.539 --> 00:47:02.809
plants on earth but it also improves
00:47:02.809 --> 00:47:05.630
their efficiency with water it is it
00:47:05.630 --> 00:47:07.849
makes them more drought tolerant because
00:47:07.849 --> 00:47:11.719
when co2 is so thin in the air at at 400
00:47:11.719 --> 00:47:14.479
ppm and it was down to 280 and 180 when
00:47:14.479 --> 00:47:17.599
it's so thin they have to open way more
00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:19.880
of the little passages under their
00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:23.599
leaves where the air goes in with the
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:27.140
co2 that allows water to get out so the
00:47:27.140 --> 00:47:30.109
loss of water is much higher from plants
00:47:30.109 --> 00:47:32.869
when there's low co2 we when that co2
00:47:32.869 --> 00:47:34.849
goes up the plants automatically know
00:47:34.849 --> 00:47:36.679
that they don't need to open their
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:39.049
stomata as they're called as widely or
00:47:39.049 --> 00:47:41.599
to have as many stomata and in fact much
00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:44.989
research done on on evolutionary stuff
00:47:44.989 --> 00:47:47.539
is looking at how many stomata there are
00:47:47.539 --> 00:47:50.809
on leaves of fossilized plants to see
00:47:50.809 --> 00:47:52.549
what the co2 level would have been at
00:47:52.549 --> 00:47:56.509
that time in history so the fact is
00:47:56.509 --> 00:47:58.999
every plant out there is starving for
00:47:58.999 --> 00:48:01.489
co2 if it's getting enough water and
00:48:01.489 --> 00:48:03.529
nutrients from the dirt that should tell
00:48:03.529 --> 00:48:05.239
us something every commercial greenhouse
00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:08.059
grower in the world doubles or triples
00:48:08.059 --> 00:48:12.919
the co2 not 400 but 800 or 1,200 ppm
00:48:12.919 --> 00:48:16.309
they get 20 to 60% increase yield by
00:48:16.309 --> 00:48:17.929
doing that and all the plants in the
00:48:17.929 --> 00:48:20.599
world would get that increase yield and
00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:22.909
there is actually no concrete evidence
00:48:22.909 --> 00:48:26.630
that co2 is causing any harmful warming
00:48:26.630 --> 00:48:29.449
whatsoever if it causes a little bit of
00:48:29.449 --> 00:48:32.059
warming we will be very lucky now how
00:48:32.059 --> 00:48:34.279
many people in Canada know that there
00:48:34.279 --> 00:48:36.439
are approximately 195 countries
00:48:36.439 --> 00:48:39.559
recognized by the United Nations Taiwan
00:48:39.559 --> 00:48:41.229
being one that they don't so there be
00:48:41.229 --> 00:48:44.779
196 if you recognize Taiwan Canada is
00:48:44.779 --> 00:48:47.809
the coldest country in the world of all
00:48:47.809 --> 00:48:48.800
those countries
00:48:48.800 --> 00:48:51.440
at minus five point three five Celsius
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:53.990
average temperature Russia is only the
00:48:53.990 --> 00:48:56.330
second coldest country in the world and
00:48:56.330 --> 00:48:58.400
even though it has colder temperatures
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:00.620
in its interior than we have as records
00:49:00.620 --> 00:49:02.630
they don't have all those Islands going
00:49:02.630 --> 00:49:04.820
up to the North Pole like we do those
00:49:04.820 --> 00:49:07.490
are cold in the winter really really
00:49:07.490 --> 00:49:10.070
really cold colder than Russia but
00:49:10.070 --> 00:49:10.970
nobody's there
00:49:10.970 --> 00:49:13.340
hardly alert is there and a couple of
00:49:13.340 --> 00:49:15.620
other little yeah outposts most of the
00:49:15.620 --> 00:49:18.260
Inuit people live below that even that
00:49:18.260 --> 00:49:20.350
area cuz it's so cold and inhospitable
00:49:20.350 --> 00:49:22.760
well three million years ago all
00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:24.560
Canada's Arctic Islands were covered in
00:49:24.560 --> 00:49:26.810
subtropical forests with giant camels
00:49:26.810 --> 00:49:29.000
roaming in them the onset of the
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:31.490
Pleistocene Ice Age was the culmination
00:49:31.490 --> 00:49:34.100
of a 50 million year cooling period that
00:49:34.100 --> 00:49:36.200
started fifteen millions after years
00:49:36.200 --> 00:49:39.350
after the dinosaur extinction and since
00:49:39.350 --> 00:49:41.420
fifty million years the temperature has
00:49:41.420 --> 00:49:43.460
gone down on the earth to the point
00:49:43.460 --> 00:49:45.740
where both poles are frozen blocks of
00:49:45.740 --> 00:49:48.020
ice and that was not like that fifty
00:49:48.020 --> 00:49:49.640
million years ago there was no ice on
00:49:49.640 --> 00:49:51.410
the earth until about thirty million
00:49:51.410 --> 00:49:53.810
years ago this is the first ice age in
00:49:53.810 --> 00:49:56.510
280 million years the earth has never
00:49:56.510 --> 00:49:59.270
been this cold as it is today in even
00:49:59.270 --> 00:50:01.610
this is an interglacial period the poles
00:50:01.610 --> 00:50:03.560
are still totally covered in ice this is
00:50:03.560 --> 00:50:05.750
just a bit of respite from the major
00:50:05.750 --> 00:50:08.180
glaciation times so it goes up and down
00:50:08.180 --> 00:50:10.490
in hundred thousand year cycles we're in
00:50:10.490 --> 00:50:14.210
one of the up cycles and beginning to go
00:50:14.210 --> 00:50:15.920
down again it's very clear from the
00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:18.230
graphs that the Greenland ice cores in
00:50:18.230 --> 00:50:20.000
particular show that we have already
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:22.700
begun the gradual descent into the next
00:50:22.700 --> 00:50:24.800
major glaciation we may need the warming
00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:27.560
we could really use some warming and it
00:50:27.560 --> 00:50:28.970
would be nice if doubling and doubling
00:50:28.970 --> 00:50:32.150
again co2 would cause some but there is
00:50:32.150 --> 00:50:34.250
no evidence in the historical record
00:50:34.250 --> 00:50:35.750
that that will happen I want to go a
00:50:35.750 --> 00:50:38.690
little bit particular this is from my
00:50:38.690 --> 00:50:40.490
perspective is not as informed as yours
00:50:40.490 --> 00:50:42.890
at all but I'm just looking at the
00:50:42.890 --> 00:50:45.770
campaign to campaign against the Alberta
00:50:45.770 --> 00:50:47.960
oil sands the campaign against can I'm
00:50:47.960 --> 00:50:50.360
security Canadian Canadian oil Canadian
00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:51.890
mr. Canadian forestry to a degree as
00:50:51.890 --> 00:50:55.730
well I often wonder aid because Canada
00:50:55.730 --> 00:50:57.560
is in terms of this particular problem
00:50:57.560 --> 00:50:59.540
one point six I think it's the number we
00:50:59.540 --> 00:51:01.850
are such a small contributor to whatever
00:51:01.850 --> 00:51:02.640
they say
00:51:02.640 --> 00:51:06.780
is apparel you have China India vastly
00:51:06.780 --> 00:51:08.430
more significant in terms of what they
00:51:08.430 --> 00:51:11.010
would be putting out what is the point a
00:51:11.010 --> 00:51:15.080
of Canada even pretending that it has
00:51:15.080 --> 00:51:17.010
leverage and this is the government
00:51:17.010 --> 00:51:18.300
position we're going to our number one
00:51:18.300 --> 00:51:19.920
priority is global warming I mean it's
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:22.620
insane if you only own one percent of it
00:51:22.620 --> 00:51:23.820
they're not going to change that much
00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:25.710
second but if you're the coldest country
00:51:25.710 --> 00:51:27.630
in the level I've heard much the same
00:51:27.630 --> 00:51:30.270
and at the same time whatever we bring
00:51:30.270 --> 00:51:33.030
in with carbon taxes even if we reduce
00:51:33.030 --> 00:51:36.090
by some minuscule fraction whatever
00:51:36.090 --> 00:51:38.040
China does in a week wipes about what is
00:51:38.040 --> 00:51:40.290
the Russian now behind us yes because
00:51:40.290 --> 00:51:43.080
even if their story is right which it is
00:51:43.080 --> 00:51:48.120
not it would make no difference that is
00:51:48.120 --> 00:51:49.950
neat you signaling at a national level
00:51:49.950 --> 00:51:53.280
and the point about the oil sands I mean
00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:55.950
III have two main points to make tonight
00:51:55.950 --> 00:51:58.770
when I'm speaking for I only have five
00:51:58.770 --> 00:52:01.050
minutes but that's enough for me to say
00:52:01.050 --> 00:52:02.760
first that point about Canada being the
00:52:02.760 --> 00:52:04.770
coldest country in the world and people
00:52:04.770 --> 00:52:06.870
in Brazil and India and China and
00:52:06.870 --> 00:52:08.610
Nigeria are not as worried about global
00:52:08.610 --> 00:52:10.740
warming as people in the coldest country
00:52:10.740 --> 00:52:13.260
in the world are and Sweden actually
00:52:13.260 --> 00:52:15.090
though I think the Swedes are catching
00:52:15.090 --> 00:52:17.940
on to greta's capers too because they
00:52:17.940 --> 00:52:20.580
just came out with about a 65 percent of
00:52:20.580 --> 00:52:22.890
the population the highest of anything
00:52:22.890 --> 00:52:24.600
about what the biggest waste of money
00:52:24.600 --> 00:52:26.940
was last year in Sweden it was the
00:52:26.940 --> 00:52:29.280
climate change stuff 65 percent in
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:30.600
Sweden in Sweden
00:52:30.600 --> 00:52:32.820
yes and I wouldn't be surprised if you
00:52:32.820 --> 00:52:34.620
get a similar thing here but I don't
00:52:34.620 --> 00:52:36.120
know a central candidate seems to really
00:52:36.120 --> 00:52:38.520
be worried about climate change and I
00:52:38.520 --> 00:52:42.890
don't understand why and the but it
00:52:42.890 --> 00:52:46.260
isn't the Canadian population or is it
00:52:46.260 --> 00:52:49.050
the Clara CV academic the journalistic
00:52:49.050 --> 00:52:51.630
the political the aides that that the
00:52:51.630 --> 00:52:53.400
bunch it's the elites that go to
00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:55.290
conferences to Davos yeah those people
00:52:55.290 --> 00:52:57.330
yeah they're there so-called elites
00:52:57.330 --> 00:52:59.940
actually they're ignorant as all get-out
00:52:59.940 --> 00:53:01.890
as far as I'm concerned I think they're
00:53:01.890 --> 00:53:05.640
just following the crowd and and and how
00:53:05.640 --> 00:53:07.590
can it just like you say how can anybody
00:53:07.590 --> 00:53:09.630
possibly believe that the world is going
00:53:09.630 --> 00:53:11.100
to come to an end in ten years
00:53:11.100 --> 00:53:14.220
it obviously isn't going to there's no
00:53:14.220 --> 00:53:16.330
possible cause that could do that
00:53:16.330 --> 00:53:18.310
they blame it on something invisible in
00:53:18.310 --> 00:53:19.630
the air I brought talked to my brother
00:53:19.630 --> 00:53:22.390
last night this is his third day in in
00:53:22.390 --> 00:53:24.490
five days and right now I think he's got
00:53:24.490 --> 00:53:26.770
four feet of snow and he was telling me
00:53:26.770 --> 00:53:28.540
if there's any global item making a joke
00:53:28.540 --> 00:53:29.860
but it's not a joke if there's any
00:53:29.860 --> 00:53:32.460
global warming for God's sake hurry up
00:53:32.460 --> 00:53:35.320
there's a lot of alarm that has no
00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:38.490
grounding in the daily experience of
00:53:38.490 --> 00:53:40.780
millions and millions of people and this
00:53:40.780 --> 00:53:43.510
thing with Alberta and Saskatchewan - we
00:53:43.510 --> 00:53:45.550
have to remember just on the National
00:53:45.550 --> 00:53:47.230
Post this morning there's this poll that
00:53:47.230 --> 00:53:50.800
shows that only 27% of Albertans are
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:53.950
happy about the future and 79% of
00:53:53.950 --> 00:53:56.890
Quebecers are happy about the future the
00:53:56.890 --> 00:54:00.700
central Canada is treating Alberta and
00:54:00.700 --> 00:54:03.240
Saskatchewan like hostile foreign powers
00:54:03.240 --> 00:54:05.620
that's what's happening in this country
00:54:05.620 --> 00:54:07.390
in our own country what kind of
00:54:07.390 --> 00:54:10.330
democracy is it or Confederation is it
00:54:10.330 --> 00:54:13.450
mainly the point Confederation where you
00:54:13.450 --> 00:54:16.270
have 13 political jurisdictions three
00:54:16.270 --> 00:54:19.480
territories and 10 provinces and two of
00:54:19.480 --> 00:54:22.060
those provinces have 100% of the federal
00:54:22.060 --> 00:54:25.750
power 100% and we don't have a formula
00:54:25.750 --> 00:54:28.270
for amending our Constitution because
00:54:28.270 --> 00:54:29.980
they wanted to have the same power as
00:54:29.980 --> 00:54:31.960
they had before they weren't going to
00:54:31.960 --> 00:54:34.240
give any power out to anybody else to be
00:54:34.240 --> 00:54:36.700
involved in even that and to go again to
00:54:36.700 --> 00:54:39.670
contradictions how in the name of God do
00:54:39.670 --> 00:54:41.770
you bring in carbon taxes during the
00:54:41.770 --> 00:54:43.330
worst depression for that industry
00:54:43.330 --> 00:54:46.390
during the biggest layoffs and at the
00:54:46.390 --> 00:54:49.150
same time scotch every possible pipeline
00:54:49.150 --> 00:54:51.490
and there's all coming across the oceans
00:54:51.490 --> 00:54:53.890
that going into Montreal that is totally
00:54:53.890 --> 00:54:55.960
do I don't understand it this is my
00:54:55.960 --> 00:54:57.850
problem there is no understanding it
00:54:57.850 --> 00:55:00.220
it's not understandable because it isn't
00:55:00.220 --> 00:55:02.560
based on any kind of logic or reason or
00:55:02.560 --> 00:55:06.550
enlightenment or sensibility or is it is
00:55:06.550 --> 00:55:09.220
in fact the opposite it is stupid what
00:55:09.220 --> 00:55:12.220
Canada is doing but it's based on
00:55:12.220 --> 00:55:14.290
somewhat on the fact that Ontario and
00:55:14.290 --> 00:55:16.390
Quebec have all the power they have all
00:55:16.390 --> 00:55:18.460
they have all the vocab the leverage
00:55:18.460 --> 00:55:21.370
they got the end and so they are saying
00:55:21.370 --> 00:55:23.800
that they don't want that dirty oil from
00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:26.500
Alberta like dirt action dirty in that
00:55:26.500 --> 00:55:26.830
call
00:55:26.830 --> 00:55:28.360
context is like dirty little scoundrel
00:55:28.360 --> 00:55:30.040
it doesn't mean that it's made of dirt
00:55:30.040 --> 00:55:32.140
like dirt is what we grow our food in
00:55:32.140 --> 00:55:33.640
what's wrong with dirt late at night
00:55:33.640 --> 00:55:34.930
you're not supposed to have your pants
00:55:34.930 --> 00:55:37.510
dirty but that's pollution right whereas
00:55:37.510 --> 00:55:39.150
when it's dirt in the ground it's not
00:55:39.150 --> 00:55:42.930
pollution and now they call it filthy
00:55:42.930 --> 00:55:47.560
the Alberta oil is filthy right and that
00:55:47.560 --> 00:55:50.500
is the kind of propaganda that people
00:55:50.500 --> 00:55:52.360
are listening to in the east
00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:55.570
whereas oil from dictators and despots
00:55:55.570 --> 00:55:57.760
in Venezuela and Saudi Arabia and
00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:00.400
Nigeria is apparently clean oil yeah
00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:01.990
especially when it comes in super
00:56:01.990 --> 00:56:03.940
tankers exactly to the Atlantic coast
00:56:03.940 --> 00:56:05.860
where as we're being banned to have
00:56:05.860 --> 00:56:08.380
there's a ban on tankers taking Alberta
00:56:08.380 --> 00:56:10.480
oil off the north coast you know you see
00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:12.340
just that's the only thing they're
00:56:12.340 --> 00:56:15.280
banning is taking Alberta oil off there
00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:16.870
now they're fighting the gas plants up
00:56:16.870 --> 00:56:18.340
there too even though gas is not a
00:56:18.340 --> 00:56:20.710
pollution issue and they won't let that
00:56:20.710 --> 00:56:24.160
pipe be see won't let the pipeline come
00:56:24.160 --> 00:56:26.050
to the Pacific out there on our left
00:56:26.050 --> 00:56:29.170
coast so we've got a situation where two
00:56:29.170 --> 00:56:31.540
landlocked provinces the only two
00:56:31.540 --> 00:56:34.150
landlocked provinces are are being
00:56:34.150 --> 00:56:37.540
demonized well and this is this is
00:56:37.540 --> 00:56:39.340
unacceptable I'm really really glad I
00:56:39.340 --> 00:56:40.810
was going to get to it but I'm glad that
00:56:40.810 --> 00:56:42.370
you brought it out even without a
00:56:42.370 --> 00:56:45.040
question this is another little axiom of
00:56:45.040 --> 00:56:47.410
mine and if anybody thinks that the
00:56:47.410 --> 00:56:50.470
global warming campaign in Canada has no
00:56:50.470 --> 00:56:53.680
costs it has great political costs
00:56:53.680 --> 00:56:55.980
because it's introduced the first
00:56:55.980 --> 00:56:59.080
potentially quite serious fracture in
00:56:59.080 --> 00:57:01.120
the relationships of the Confederation
00:57:01.120 --> 00:57:03.340
it's costing a lot to virtue signal
00:57:03.340 --> 00:57:07.330
that's my point it's really very sad
00:57:07.330 --> 00:57:09.880
I've been a Western Lee alienated person
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:11.320
all my life because they grew up on the
00:57:11.320 --> 00:57:13.990
very west coast it was rustic yeah I got
00:57:13.990 --> 00:57:17.020
Western alienation big time and I've
00:57:17.020 --> 00:57:19.630
known about this all my life that that
00:57:19.630 --> 00:57:21.790
we're not don't have any say in anything
00:57:21.790 --> 00:57:24.970
we we might as well be ruled by a despot
00:57:24.970 --> 00:57:27.970
and now it's looking even like that
00:57:27.970 --> 00:57:32.260
because this Prime Minister he he he
00:57:32.260 --> 00:57:34.360
gets away with everything that he does
00:57:34.360 --> 00:57:36.880
it's illegal and wrong he fires
00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:39.760
ministers from First Nations he tries to
00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:40.720
save SNC
00:57:40.720 --> 00:57:42.520
but he doesn't try to save the order in
00:57:42.520 --> 00:57:44.410
West well he doesn't know he actually
00:57:44.410 --> 00:57:48.280
his dad apparently had a slogan screw
00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:50.310
the West will win the rest
00:57:50.310 --> 00:57:53.710
well I winded up with this I know a
00:57:53.710 --> 00:57:55.930
little bit and I said a little okay I
00:57:55.930 --> 00:57:58.180
know a little bit about occasionally
00:57:58.180 --> 00:58:00.760
taking a slightly different view of the
00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:03.160
global warming consensus but you'll
00:58:03.160 --> 00:58:05.650
especially as an originator Greenpeace
00:58:05.650 --> 00:58:08.470
you're one of the the fundamental people
00:58:08.470 --> 00:58:10.600
a person who has walked away from the
00:58:10.600 --> 00:58:13.510
Creed and who also has had and I
00:58:13.510 --> 00:58:15.070
congratulate you on a minute
00:58:15.070 --> 00:58:17.080
serious that takes a lot of courage
00:58:17.080 --> 00:58:19.540
these days to on this particular topic
00:58:19.540 --> 00:58:22.810
to consistently oppose the great mass is
00:58:22.810 --> 00:58:25.240
coming in how are you treated these days
00:58:25.240 --> 00:58:27.970
by either former allies and how are you
00:58:27.970 --> 00:58:29.530
received outside of those who at least
00:58:29.530 --> 00:58:33.400
have an open mind none of my former a
00:58:33.400 --> 00:58:36.670
leagues will Allies would will dare come
00:58:36.670 --> 00:58:39.910
near me and talk to me that they stopped
00:58:39.910 --> 00:58:41.620
doing that a long time ago when they
00:58:41.620 --> 00:58:44.290
realize they could not debate me and
00:58:44.290 --> 00:58:46.960
that's basically their whole operand
00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:49.720
Asst mode i operand us is they will not
00:58:49.720 --> 00:58:53.020
talk to people like me and there's many
00:58:53.020 --> 00:58:58.540
of us i am i am treated so well by the
00:58:58.540 --> 00:59:00.370
people who really do have good knowledge
00:59:00.370 --> 00:59:02.620
about this whether it's william hopper
00:59:02.620 --> 00:59:05.410
or richard linson or christopher essex
00:59:05.410 --> 00:59:08.590
here in canada these are real scientists
00:59:08.590 --> 00:59:10.570
who've been studying all their lives too
00:59:10.570 --> 00:59:13.060
and they're in their elder years some of
00:59:13.060 --> 00:59:16.060
them and have got more wisdom than i do
00:59:16.060 --> 00:59:18.940
because they're older than I am but I've
00:59:18.940 --> 00:59:21.400
got some wisdom now myself I think after
00:59:21.400 --> 00:59:26.470
at the ripe old age of 72 and I'm I'm
00:59:26.470 --> 00:59:28.990
really enjoying my time now because I'm
00:59:28.990 --> 00:59:32.560
with people who like me prefer truth and
00:59:32.560 --> 00:59:36.810
logic and using the science approach and
00:59:36.810 --> 00:59:41.070
when people call me a skeptic I wear it
00:59:41.070 --> 00:59:43.990
as a badge of honor because the whole
00:59:43.990 --> 00:59:45.910
purpose of science is to be skeptical
00:59:45.910 --> 00:59:48.970
and that was such a ridiculous thing for
00:59:48.970 --> 00:59:50.980
them to use the word skeptical about
00:59:50.980 --> 00:59:52.510
scientists as if it meant there was
00:59:52.510 --> 00:59:54.280
something wrong with
00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:58.600
yes they do though and it is it it is my
00:59:58.600 --> 01:00:00.700
duty to be a skeptic as a scientist
01:00:00.700 --> 01:00:03.760
that's really good as Galileo was yeah
01:00:03.760 --> 01:00:05.290
and I hope they don't put me under house
01:00:05.290 --> 01:00:06.370
arrest for the rest of my life
01:00:06.370 --> 01:00:09.100
Inquisition something on the side dr.
01:00:09.100 --> 01:00:10.630
Moore I thank you very very much
01:00:10.630 --> 01:00:12.430
Rex it's a pleasure and I apologize for
01:00:12.430 --> 01:00:18.430
50 years ago so why oh it was fun both
01:00:18.430 --> 01:00:19.870
times it was
01:00:19.870 --> 01:00:29.910
[Music]
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