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Jesus Christ is the key figure in
the New Testament, the son of God.
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The stories of his healings,
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his miracles and even his arrest
and crucifixion are legendary,
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but who was he?
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Was he really Yeshua Ben Yosef and
was he the real King of the Jews?
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Or maybe just a humble carpenter?
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Was he a rabbi?
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Or did he have a relationship, maybe
even a marriage, to Mary Magdalene?
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And what really happened to Jesus?
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Was he crucified here in Jerusalem?
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Or as some claim, was he
smuggled out of the city alive?
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And above all, just what
historical evidence is there
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that any of this actually happened?
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This historical Jesus
is a complete enigma.
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It's almost as if he didn't exist.
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What we have is a character that was
created hundreds of years later.
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He was a religious leader, a
preacher from 2,000 years ago,
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he was the Messiah prophesized
in the old Testament.
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He was the son of God, who came
to become the central figure
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in Christianity. There are two
things to realise about Jesus.
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One, he really existed.
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And two, he was not remotely
like the Jesus of the Gospels.
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Any traditions about historical
Jesus were purely oral,
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something Christians
might have talked about.
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Gospel writers also borrowed
stuff from other religions.
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We know for absolute certainty
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that he was baptised
and he was crucified.
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In between those two events,
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he was a Jewish religious teacher,
who cultivated
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an enormous following, which still
continues to this day.
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We all know the Jesus of the Bible,
his healings, his miracles,
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his trial and his crucifixion.
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And you would presume that all of
those events would be part of the
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historical record, but the
problem is, they aren't.
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The historical Jesus
is something of a mystery.
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Jesus was a Jewish religious
leader from 2,000 years ago.
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The conventional story is the
kings anticipated his birth.
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His mother didn't have sex.
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It was an immaculate conception.
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He starts his mission at 30.
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Quite a rebel. The Romans get a
bit, you know, worried about him.
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He's crucified, died and is
resurrected three days later.
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Well, personally, I wouldn't say
that the Jesus, as written
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and evoked in the Bible did exist
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in that way because he did all sorts
of miracles and he kind of
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floated up to heaven
and back down again.
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I don't think any of that happened.
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But I think we can say
that the historical Jesus,
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as in someone for whom there is an
empirical evidence that he actually
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existed, is true.
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What we think we know from the
Gospels is he was an apocalyptic
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preacher from a particularly rough
end of the Roman Empire, Galilee.
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Got himself into trouble with
the priests in Jerusalem.
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Crucified by the Romans and died.
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And that's all we know for certain
about the historical Jesus.
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So, what are the references to Jesus
in the writings of the time?
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What are the facts that a whole
religion has been based on?
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The truth is, well, not many.
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Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian
from the time of Jesus,
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only makes two references to him
and one of these is debatable.
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Josephus' writings cover a number of
figures familiar to Bible readers.
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He discusses John the Baptist,
James, the brother of Jesus,
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Pontius Pilate, the high priests,
and the Pharisees.
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But Jesus, the son of God, is at
best only mentioned twice.
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This is probably the most famous
passage in Josephus and by far
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the most controversial.
"At this time, there was a wise man
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"called Jesus and his
conduct was good
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"and he was known to be virtuous.
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"Many people among the Jews and
other nations became his disciples.
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"Pilate condemned him to
be crucified and to die.
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"But those who had become
his disciples
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"did not abandon his discipleship.
They reported he had appeared
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"to them three days after his
crucifixion and he was alive.
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"Accordingly, he was
perhaps the Messiah."
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The great Roman Jewish historian
from Jerusalem, Josephus,
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he writes about everything,
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every little detail about life in
Judaea at this time, except Jesus.
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Actually, he does mention the word
Messiah, but even that
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mention of the word Messiah tells
scholars that's not what a
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Jewish man would call the Christos.
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He does not call it Christianity.
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So, it is an indication that it's
a fraud, that was added later.
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The Jewish Messiah was supposed
to be, pure and simple,
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a great military leader, who
would kick the Romans out.
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And obviously, Jesus failed on that
count, totally.
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But the whole idea of being the son
of God was grafted on by
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himself and/or the early Christians.
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In the Epistles of St Paul, written
25 years after Jesus' death,
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it is claimed Jesus
was executed by Pilate.
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We know for a fact that
Pontius Pilate did exist.
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The Roman writer Tacitus wrote about
a Christos being insulted by Nero
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over a fire in Rome,
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but it would appear that all
mentions of Christ or Jesus were
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actually second-hand retelling
of other accounts.
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Nothing at all was direct.
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The Roman historian Tacitus is
interesting because he uses the
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right phrase, the Christos,
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but the earliest copy we have of
what he wrote is the 11th century.
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The first reference of his work
is the 15th century.
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So, it just adds to the belief that
this is in hindsight someone adding
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some elements to his writing,
talking about Christianity,
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that they had learned and heard
about much after the event.
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It is extraordinary because
religion demands certainty.
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And the one thing we don't have
about Jesus is certainty.
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The story that you now have was
manufactured decades and hundreds of
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years later. The very first
references we have in the Gospels
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don't come until 60 years after his
death and the texts go through many,
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many evolutions,
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so the process of making Jesus into
Christ, the God, is a long one,
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happening all over the Roman Empire,
for centuries.
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I think we have to realise about the
early Christians is they thought
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Jesus was coming
back any moment now,
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so they saw no reason to write
anything down about him.
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About 40, 50 years later,
they are thinking, "Uh-oh,
he is not coming back, is he?"
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And also, you've got the Romans
crushing the Jews and Christians in
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Jerusalem and suddenly there was
this rush to write the life of Jesus
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down and there's about 40, 50
Gospels circulating, not just four.
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So you get this...
You get this created character
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and different writers borrowing
from each other.
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There are common themes we
can make out, but basically,
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he's an apocalyptic preacher,
he gets himself crucified,
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and his disciples suffer a kind
of post-traumatic stress
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after the event.
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If the Jesus Christ story
in the Bible
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was actually based on real people
and real places,
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then the so-called garden tomb
in Jerusalem
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is an interesting place
to investigate.
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Dr Eyal Miron is a leading Jewish
scholar and has agreed to show me
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this historical site.
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So, this is the garden tomb,
is that right?
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Yes, indeed.
This is the garden tomb.
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And actually, what they have here is
a tomb supposedly from the second
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temple period, which was probably
the tomb where Jesus was buried in.
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Right. So, the tomb itself predates
Jesus?
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Now, in actuality,
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the tomb itself belongs to the first
temple period, which is much,
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much earlier than the time of Jesus.
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I would say about 800 years
before the time of Jesus.
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Right.
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But it has been altered since then.
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What you see in front of you at the
moment are the carvings and toolings
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of the bedrock done during
the Crusader era, including,
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for instance,
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this beautiful channel which
is actually a trough used
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by the Crusaders for their horses,
and donkeys.
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There was a stable here
in the 12th century.
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You see, this is kind of how I had
imagined Jesus's tomb to look like,
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but maybe with a big... Was there a
rock that was rolled in front of the
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tomb? Well, you would expect to have
a rock here, a rolling stone.
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According to what we know about
burial during the second temple
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period, that was... Not a typical
way of burial,
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but you find it in some major sites,
major burial sites.
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So, the channel looks like it
occupied a rolling stone.
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However, as I said, this channel
is much, much later.
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It's 1,200 years after the time
of Jesus.
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And even though we do have here a
nice rolling stone, this one over
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here, it is not original.
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It was brought here from somewhere
else and it has got
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nothing to do with burial here.
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The garden tomb is a fascinating
alternative,
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a true site, potentially,
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of where Jesus was buried and you go
there today and it just feels right.
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And it is just very understated,
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the people who sort of take you
around there are not pushing it down
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your throat that this is the site
where he was buried,
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but it is the kind of place that
looks like where it would have
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happened and burials here go back to
the fifth century or further BC,
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so it really ticks a lot of boxes.
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It looks rather grand.
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Is that how a man of Jesus' stature
would have been buried?
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Well, actually, it is quite small.
Ignore the facade here.
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This was done much, much later
than the time of the burial here.
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During the burial period,
that would be a rock scarp
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and there would be a nice little
hole here, opening into
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a very small and cosy chamber
for burial.
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And that's exactly what I'm going
to show you in a moment.
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So, it was actually quite small.
People like Jesus,
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even though he was tried as a rebel
and even though he was crucified,
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they would be turned over to the
families to be buried properly,
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according to Jewish custom.
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We do know that because we have
such an example in archaeology.
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In Jerusalem, in the 1970s, the
skeleton of a Jew called Jehohanan,
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the son of Hagkol, was discovered
in the north side of Jerusalem.
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And an 11 centimetre nail was
actually pierced into his heel bone,
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so this is the only archaeological
evidence of crucifixion that we have
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in the entire world.
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And he was buried properly in a
typical Jewish burial place.
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I would expect that the same
happened with Jesus.
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Can we take a look inside? Yes,
of course. Please, be my guest.
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The garden tomb is definitely part
of the Jesus tourism,
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the theme park that is Jerusalem.
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But it has certain elements
going for it.
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I mean, we just don't know whether
it was Jesus' tomb or not.
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It could have been. It certainly
dates from before his time.
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It could have been.
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One major point, though, with all of
these places, even if they are not
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genuine, they are hallowed by belief
by generations of believers,
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who pour their faith and their
emotion into it.
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So, what we actually see here is
actually the tomb following the tomb
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of Jesus, in the byzantine era.
That's about 300-400 years later.
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And these alterations made the tomb
look the way it looks today with
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these bathtubs or troughs for
the burial of the bodies.
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We have one here, two there,
third one over there.
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But originally, the First Temple
tomb would look a bit different.
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There would be shelves, on which
the bodies would be put on,
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just like bed at home.
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In your opinion, is this the tomb
of Jesus?
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It's very hard to tell.
The tomb existed in the time
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of Jesus, but according
to the New Testament,
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in the Gospels, it says that Jesus
was buried in a new tomb.
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In the time of Jesus, this tomb
was already 800 years old.
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So, the evidence of the New
Testament suggests that this wasn't
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Jesus' tomb? Indeed, indeed.
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If the evidence in the New Testament
does in fact rule out the garden
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tomb as Jesus' burial place,
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perhaps the next location
will prove more promising.
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Many Christians believe that the
actual site of the crucifixion and
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the burial of Jesus Christ
can be found in the
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Church of the Holy Sepulchre,
right in the heart of Jerusalem.
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Could Jesus' body really have
been crucified and entombed
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all at the same location?
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This is it. Well, yes, Jamie.
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Indeed, this is the Holy Sepulchre
Church.
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As you can see, it is indeed quite
busy today.
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For many Christians all over the
world, this is the holiest site on
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Earth. This is the place where Jesus
was crucified,
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this is the place of burial and it
is also the place of resurrection.
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Can we go and take a look?
By all means.
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Some people believe that
at the time of Jesus,
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this site would have been outside
the much smaller walled city of
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00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:42,400
Jerusalem. If true,
then the location is supported
232
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,840
by the Biblical claim that
Jesus' tomb was indeed
233
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,880
somewhere outside the city.
234
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:50,760
What's going on here?
235
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:55,480
Well, basically, Jamie, what we see
here is the Unction stone.
236
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,520
According to the Gospel of John,
237
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,000
once the body of Jesus was taken
down from the cross,
238
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,360
it was laid down and his disciples
prepared it for burial.
239
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:04,880
According to the local tradition,
240
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,600
this is the actual place
where that took place.
241
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,440
And these pilgrims coming in,
touching the stone,
242
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:14,600
rubbing it with all sorts of
souvenirs that they would take back
243
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,320
home as blessed souvenirs.
OK. So, they would touch this there?
244
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,000
You can touch it. Yes, of course.
245
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,480
And people would travel all around
the world to do this,
246
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,160
to touch the stone? Absolutely.
247
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,720
It's the peak of the experience here
in Jerusalem,
248
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,840
the entire Holy Sepulchre Church
and of course,
249
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,240
touching the place where the body
of Christ once lay.
250
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,000
And what would it mean to touch the
stone or rub your souvenirs on the
251
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,520
stone, that it becomes blessed
or...? It becomes blessed, yes.
252
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,000
And it is indeed one
of the only places
253
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,640
where you can actually
touch holiness.
254
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,080
You have to remember that the Romans
raised Jerusalem.
255
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,920
Josephus says that anyone who went
would never have known even a city
256
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,440
had been there. So, whatever
archaeological vestiges
257
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,520
there were of Jesus' time were gone.
258
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,280
The Romans wiped them off
the face of the Earth.
259
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:58,080
When we are thinking about sites
260
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,360
now that are the holy sites
of Jerusalem,
261
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,040
one has to bear that in mind and
realise these were recognised later.
262
00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,480
So the Church of the Holy Sepulchre,
for example,
263
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,200
is a Byzantine creation
by the Empress Halina.
264
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,360
This comes along in the 300s.
That's three centuries after Jesus.
265
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,520
The garden tomb is discovered
in the 20th-century.
266
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:19,880
All of these areas have traditions
that grew up around them,
267
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,040
but fundamentally, they are later
and they are added onto a city that
268
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:25,960
had been thoroughly erased.
269
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,240
OK. So, what have we got here?
270
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,000
So, we have just entered
the Chapel of Adam.
271
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:38,040
According to medieval traditions, on
this rock, the rock of Golgotha,
272
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:39,360
Jesus was crucified.
273
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:44,200
And you can actually see the rock
itself preserved behind this little
274
00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,040
window. According to legend,
the skull of Adam was actually
275
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,720
entombed right under the cross
and a drop
276
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:55,920
of blood came down on the skull of
Adam and he momentarily resurrected.
277
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,960
Hang on, I thought that Jesus
was crucified on Calvary?
278
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,800
True. Calvary is actually
the name of the site.
279
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:04,920
It comes from the word
meaning skull,
280
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:10,200
but we actually talk about a rock
scarp, on which his cross was
281
00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,080
positioned, and this is the basis
of that rock scarp.
282
00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:17,880
In a moment, we will be on top
of that at the site of Calvary.
283
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:19,760
Right. But that's also Calvary.
284
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,080
OK. It's a chapel at the basis
of Calvary.
285
00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:25,840
I think I understand.
And what have we got next?
286
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,280
The actual site of the cross.
287
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,400
Shall we go and take a look?
Yeah, let's go.
288
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,440
It seems rather convenient
289
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,120
and suspicious that at such
a compact site,
290
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,360
it's almost like a kind of Disney
World for people that believe in
291
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,760
Jesus Christ, that you can go there,
get your fill, get your little
292
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,160
souvenirs, and then leave. And much
of this dates back to the Crusades,
293
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,480
but that in itself was 1,000 years
after the events depicted.
294
00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:56,320
So I think even, you know,
the most kind of well believing
295
00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:59,640
Christian would be entitled to feel
a little bit of doubt.
296
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,600
How do we know it was
this exact spot?
297
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,520
But I guess that's not
really the point.
298
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,560
They just want to go to Jerusalem
and feel a part of it,
299
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,760
so whether it was this patch of
grass or this one is neither here
300
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,640
nor there, if you are going
to enjoy everlasting life.
301
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,480
This is quite something.
So, what's this?
302
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,280
This is the top of the rock we've
seen earlier in the Chapel of Adam.
303
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,640
Right. We were at the foot
of the bedrock,
304
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,120
now we are at the top of the rock
scarp and according to tradition,
305
00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,800
this is the precise location place.
306
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,800
This looks beautiful. Yeah.
307
00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,200
You can actually see Jesus
in the middle.
308
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,000
You can see Mary, his mother,
and John, the apostle.
309
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,480
And the inscription
on top of his head.
310
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,640
Basically, the title of his crime.
311
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,560
Claiming to be the king of the Jews,
in Greek, Latin and Hebrew.
312
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:06,160
Identifying the place of crucifixion
is completely guesswork.
313
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:10,880
It is taking scripture and then
trying to basically cram real places
314
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,600
into the Bible and when you go to
the Holy Sepulchre, you think,
315
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:16,880
this doesn't look like
where Jesus was crucified.
316
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,440
It's not even on a hill.
It's inside the city wall.
317
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,800
It doesn't make sense. But, you
know, it was all about the faith.
318
00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,480
OK, Jamie, we are entering
the holy of holies.
319
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,160
Wow! This is it.
320
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,840
The Holy Sepulchre Church. This
chamber is the Chamber of the Angel,
321
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,600
where the women who came to Jesus'
tomb after the resurrection saw the
322
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,480
angel waiting for them.
And this is the inner sanctum.
323
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,920
This is truly the holy of holies
for many Christians.
324
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,760
This is Jesus' tomb here?
This is Jesus' tomb.
325
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:54,600
Oh, wow!
326
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:55,840
That's amazing!
327
00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:01,160
I know it doesn't look much of a
tomb because it is now covered with
328
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,720
these slabs, stone slabs,
329
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,640
which are much, much later
than the time of Jesus.
330
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,840
But it was taken out a couple of
months ago by an archaeological team
331
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:13,360
from Athens and, yes, there
is a tomb underneath.
332
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,880
And it is a part of a cave, in which
this is just one of the benches
333
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:21,400
or one of the places where
the bodies would be put on.
334
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,680
So, as far as the Bible is concerned
and millions of Christians around
335
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,520
the world, this is
the tomb of Christ?
336
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,200
Indeed. For us, as historians,
archaeologists, people of the
337
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:38,160
academy, this is a genuine Jewish
tomb from around the time of Jesus.
338
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,720
So the only evidence,
339
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,440
the only archaeological evidence we
have of Jesus' tomb is the fact that
340
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,640
it was a tomb at the right time?
Indeed. And it's not alone.
341
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,960
There are other tombs around us and
they all belong to a cemetery from
342
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,360
the Second Temple period.
343
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,280
Regardless of the
historical evidence,
344
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,720
it's still an extraordinary place.
It is an amazing... It feels...
345
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,320
Different. You can't help
but feel...
346
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:06,640
I totally agree with you.
It's a special place, right?
It is, indeed. Indeed.
347
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:09,760
A rational mind respectfully,
348
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,560
is going to question whether or not
the historical site is what it says
349
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,040
it is. Is it really the site
of the crucifixion?
350
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:22,120
And a few feet away where he was
laid down after the cross and then
351
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:28,720
buried? It is uncertain when this
all became a bit of a pilgrim site,
352
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,960
but it appears to have been a
symbolic representation for the
353
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,080
story, which itself is allegorical.
354
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:38,000
But it's a symbolic representation
of where it happened.
355
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,000
Historians today would tell you,
no, that doesn't make any sense.
356
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,040
They all wouldn't have happened in
the same place and it would have
357
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,120
been outside the city walls,
not within.
358
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,920
The problem with the historical
Jesus is, where is the evidence?
359
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,240
Yes, the locations,
360
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,960
the physical places that Jesus was
said to have visited do exist.
361
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,240
But what proof is there that he was
actually there?
362
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:18,320
Marty Friedlander is a local guide
in Jerusalem who has agreed to show
363
00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:22,480
me some of the key sites that
Jesus is said to have visited
364
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:24,840
in Jerusalem, according
to the New Testament.
365
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,920
So when we look at the Biblical
evidence of Jesus
366
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,760
in the New Testament,
what do the Gospels tell us?
367
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,440
Specifically, in terms
of where we are now?
368
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,200
Oh, funny you should mention it.
369
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,600
Just over this wall, behind that
building, is the Bethesda pool.
370
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,320
Which is mentioned
in the Book of John,
371
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:50,880
where Jesus performs his first
miracle here in Jerusalem.
372
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,040
He restores a... Well,
he takes a handicapped gentleman who
373
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,440
has a hard time getting to the pool
374
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,000
in time, and apparently
there's a ripple of the water.
375
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:05,600
Once a day and the first guy who was
able to jump in, he'll be healed.
376
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,160
OK, but if we discount the more
miraculous stories in the
377
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,920
New Testament, because I want
to focus more on the history,
378
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,280
I want to get some proof
of Jesus' existence.
379
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,480
What other places nearby
would help us with that?
380
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,400
Well, just over that way
is where the Temple stood.
381
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,720
And that, the platform on which the
Dome of the Rock is built today,
382
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,760
it's the same platform on which
Jesus and every other Jew who was
383
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,960
making a pilgrimage up to Jerusalem,
they would have walked on.
384
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,440
That's legit.
385
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,360
Is there any archaeological evidence
of Jesus' existence?
386
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,720
That's a tough one and I would say
the answer's got to be no.
387
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,880
Have we scientific proof that yes,
388
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,440
this is the cross on which
he was crucified?
389
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,200
No. And it boils down to,
do you believe it?
390
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:54,640
And if you want to believe it,
391
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,600
then you'll make sure that you'll
wrap your scientific mind around and
392
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,000
say, yes, this is proof.
393
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,880
Virtually everything
was lost by the Romans,
394
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:07,680
the great suppression
after the rebellions.
395
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,920
But the one thing that remains
probably accurate
396
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,720
is the Via Dolorosa,
397
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:19,480
which is where Jesus is supposed to
have carried the cross from Pilate,
398
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,120
to the site of the crucifixion.
399
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:28,520
That must be accurate, for the
simple reason it's the only direct
400
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,680
route from the two points.
401
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,600
And the Romans used it.
402
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,320
So, is this the Via Dolorosa
we're on now?
403
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:43,280
Yeah, we're about to strut
officially the Via Dolorosa at the
404
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:44,840
first station of the cross. OK,
405
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,880
and what does that mean when you're
talking about stations of the cross?
406
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,120
It means the stations along the way
of the suffering
407
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:55,920
of Jesus, from station one would be,
when he's being sentenced to death,
408
00:24:55,960 --> 00:25:00,200
culminating in station 13 and 14,
when he is already being placed in
409
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:06,480
the tomb at the end of the line.
So, what have we got through here?
410
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,840
Entering the second station of the
cross. OK. What does that mean?
411
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,240
It means, first station,
Jesus is being sentenced.
412
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:14,520
Yeah. In this case,
413
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:19,000
literally right across the street,
according to the current geography,
414
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,200
and then he's being handed over to
the Roman police, who were going
415
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,640
to be executing the sentence.
416
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,080
And that's here?
This is going to be here.
417
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:31,000
It's really easy for us to forget
that there were dozens and probably
418
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,640
dozens of messiahs that
came into Jerusalem,
419
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,960
knowing that the Old Testament had
prophesied that a Messiah would come
420
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,480
and rescue the Jews.
421
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,520
So time and time again, here comes
a Messiah, he's got a cross,
422
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,720
he's on a donkey,
there's palm trees,
423
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,920
he's got a cult of followers and
the Jewish elders must've been
424
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,120
just rolling their eyes.
Not another one! Really?
425
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,280
Jesus Christ? That's what
your name is? OK. Next!
426
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:03,360
If he was the person the Bible
says he was,
427
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,560
then he was a political agitator.
As a political agitator,
428
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,000
he would have been crucified by the
Romans and his body would have been
429
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,360
either left to rot on a cross,
430
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,720
or thrown on the rubbish heaps
to the dogs.
431
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,560
If there were various Christians
that wrote this story and it was a
432
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:26,080
myth, do you not think they would
have come up with a different method
of having their Messiah die?
433
00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:29,920
Because it's a pretty brutal,
horrible way of dying?
434
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,720
No. Because it's grounded in fact
that the Romans did in fact,
435
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,200
crucify people in public.
436
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,440
There was an ossuary,
437
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,560
a little bone box found here in
Jerusalem in a construction site,
438
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,880
that found a heel bone with
a nail still stuck in it.
439
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:51,560
So, he wasn't the only person
crucified. So we know crucifixions
happened. That's a historical fact.
440
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,760
We know that how they used
to kill prisoners. Correct.
441
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,160
The Romans believed in upholding
the most stringent,
442
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,400
rigorous form of discipline.
443
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,400
They hated anyone that represented
a threat to law and order,
444
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,360
and Jesus created disturbances
in the temple.
445
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,560
And he was seen to be generating a
kind of, an independent power base,
446
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,360
because people were loyal to him
and him only.
447
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,320
Like above and beyond
the Roman empire.
448
00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:23,240
So, they treated him as they treated
such people who tended to
449
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,840
challenge the status quo, brutally.
450
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,880
And, that led to his arrest and
eventually his savage execution.
451
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:40,280
I don't think that the Jewish
establishment had such an issue with
him. I think he was one of the many
452
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:45,600
agitators, from the sticks
or from the cities,
453
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,480
but they certainly
weren't going to say,
454
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,800
we must put this fellow to death.
455
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,400
That was not the Jewish character.
Right.
456
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,080
It was certainly in character
was for the Romans...
457
00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:03,280
The Roman Empire keeps itself in
business by being incredibly violent
458
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,800
and murderous and putting out
any sort of
459
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,360
spark of rebellion at the get go.
460
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,600
And that's what he represented
to them.
461
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:19,400
What people don't really get is that
Jesus wasn't important in his own
462
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,400
day. He was barely known.
463
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,880
And to put him in context,
464
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,360
in the year that he's commonly
thought to have died, AD 33,
465
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,760
Pontius Pilate executed
by crucifixion
466
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,400
300 would-be messiahs in Jerusalem.
467
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,720
Jesus was just one of them.
468
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:52,040
I'm curious to unravel the mystery
of the crucifixion.
469
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,200
According to some,
470
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,120
it took place with the Church
of the Holy Sepulchre stands today,
471
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:02,160
but others argued that they always
took place outside of the city
472
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,400
walls. And some believe that they
know the spot, near the Mount of
473
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,640
Olives, a very remote place
at the time.
474
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,960
Doctor Eyal Miron knows the site
well, and has agreed
475
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,840
to show me the possible location
where Jesus was crucified.
476
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:25,640
So, what's this site?
477
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:31,600
Well, this bustling bus park
would have been, according to some,
478
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,600
the actual crucifixion site
in the Second Temple period.
479
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,960
Amazingly as it looks.
Really? Yes.
480
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,480
The New Testament doesn't actually
specify the location of
the crucifixion. It just...
481
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,040
The Gospels say that it was done
in a place called Golgotha,
482
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,280
meaning the Skull Hill,
or just the skull actually.
483
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,840
And in 1883,
an Englishman called Charles Gordon
484
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:55,720
who visited Jerusalem
and stated right
485
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,440
up there at the top of the wall,
486
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,160
was watching this area and he saw
something that...
487
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,160
It can hardly be seen today,
but if you look at this picture,
488
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,200
taken from the beginning
of the 20th century,
489
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,800
you can see what he
was actually seeing.
490
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,960
This is the hill, and you can see
that there are two caves here,
491
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,280
looking like eyes.
492
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,960
And then you have the mouth
and maybe a nose over here.
493
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,400
So it does look like a skull.
And this is in this rock face here?
494
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,080
The skull? And that's exactly it.
495
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,080
So he said maybe this
is the Skull Hill.
496
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:27,480
And if he is right, then the
crucifixion might have taken place
497
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,640
right here. And there would have
been crosses all the way...
498
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,360
Well, either all the way up here,
or down here for people to see.
499
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,840
You'd like it to be closer
to the public.
500
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,880
So, would you say Jesus' crime
fits the punishment at the time?
501
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,080
Most scholars would agree that he
was considered to be a rebel,
502
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,960
because he... When Pilate asks him,
are you the king of Jews?
503
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:51,920
He replies, "You said it."
504
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,120
Meaning, he doesn't deny that.
505
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,600
So, if someone claims that he
is the king of the Jews,
506
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,200
when there's an emperor in the
Roman empire, that means
507
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,560
that he's a rebel.
In that case, he will be crucified.
508
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,160
Many of the sites associated
with Jesus Christ today,
509
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,360
particularly the ones that draw
in so many visitors,
510
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,360
are of quite a spurious fabrication.
511
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,360
It'd have sense of,
a site of pilgrimage.
512
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,200
So, people coming in coaches
to see where Christ was crucified,
513
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,680
where he was buried.
514
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:33,120
I question how they could possibly
know what precise spot all these
515
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,480
epochal events took place on.
516
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,560
When you're at the side of the
crucifixion, there's these benches.
517
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,440
And you sit down at the benches
and you think, OK, I'm going
518
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,680
to feast my eyes on something
profound and something really
519
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:49,440
moving, perhaps a recreation
of the three crosses.
520
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,440
And perhaps, you know,
a recreation of Mary Magdalene
521
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,680
and all of the Mary and Joseph
of Arimathea...
522
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,600
No! All you see is buses!
523
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,560
It's the crudest, unsanctified thing
you can imagine!
524
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:15,360
The New Testament is a full
narrative of the stories of Jesus in
525
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,280
and around Jerusalem,
leading up to his crucifixion.
526
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,320
In the garden of Gethsemane,
527
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,640
in the Last Supper room and walking
down the Via Dolorosa.
528
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:26,880
But in recent years,
529
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,200
a different site has interested
scholars and experts.
530
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,240
It's a place located in the suburbs
of Jerusalem
531
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,360
and is called the Talpiot Tomb.
532
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:49,160
Now, I've been told that on the
third floor of this, I have to say,
533
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,240
unassuming apartment block, there is
534
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,280
an outdoor terrace.
535
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:01,160
And it's on this terrace that this
remarkable discovery was made.
536
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:24,800
Well, it wasn't quite what I was
expecting, but beneath this stone
537
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:29,200
slab, here in this Jerusalem suburb,
is the Talpiot Tomb.
538
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,640
Now, it contains ten ossuaries,
six inscribed with epigraphs,
539
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,680
including one interpreted
as Jesus, son of Joseph.
540
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:43,400
Not this inscription was partially
legible, and its
541
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,080
translation and interpretation
has been widely disputed.
542
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:55,600
There are so many tourist sites in
Jerusalem that when you approach
543
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,560
this tomb, you expect it to be
decorated like all the rest.
544
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,960
But it's not. There's cats
crawling on top of it,
545
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,440
it's open to the elements,
those railings,
546
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,000
there's nothing about it that says,
we value this.
547
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:12,480
We think that this is authentic.
Not at all what you'd expect
548
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,080
from somebody who has buried the son
of God here.
549
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,400
A controversial documentary film,
550
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:27,200
The Lost Tomb of Jesus was produced
in 2007 by director James Cameron
551
00:34:27,240 --> 00:34:31,120
and investigative
archaeologist Simcha-Jacobovici
552
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,160
and it grabbed the world's
attention.
553
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,280
They claimed that this was
the Jesus family tomb.
554
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,040
And that one of the ossuaries
555
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,760
contained the remains
of Jesus of Nazareth.
556
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,000
And that he hadn't risen
from the dead.
557
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:52,200
The controversy was huge,
making headlines around the world.
558
00:34:52,240 --> 00:34:56,240
Had the tomb of Jesus been found
at last?
559
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,800
Amid all the hullabaloo surrounding
the documentary,
560
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,640
a whole host of historians,
561
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,640
archaeologists and scholars came
forward to pouring gallons of water
562
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,080
on top of Cameron and
Jacobovici's claims.
563
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,160
Apparently, this tomb had been
discovered years earlier and largely
564
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:16,800
dismissed as unimportant.
565
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,840
The result was, the discovery never
showed the documentary again and the
566
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,440
whole thing, and the space
of just over a week,
567
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,280
went from headline news to a widely
discredited theory.
568
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,280
This could have been the greatest
discovery of all time.
569
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,360
The tomb of Jesus Christ,
570
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,000
with James Cameron and all
his credibility behind it.
571
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,040
But no, it ends up being a fraud.
572
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,520
And can you imagine
the disappointment,
573
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:48,080
because the whole world kind
of went, wow, now this is...
574
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:49,600
Oh, it's a fraud. Never mind.
575
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,600
You only have to Google Jesus to
realise that he's one of the largest
576
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,200
industries and businesses
on the planet.
577
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:00,880
And we live in an age when people
require proof of things.
578
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,360
There's so many elements
competing for attention,
579
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,320
that proof is now the gold standard.
580
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:09,000
So it's not surprising that people
have come up with all sorts of bogus
581
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,240
archaeology that proves Jesus.
582
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,480
Examples of that are the Talpiot
Tomb, or the James ossuary,
583
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,040
both of these in the 1980s
and in the 2000s,
584
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,520
turned out to be fraudulent attempts
by people to put in front of the
585
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,760
public, artefacts they say come
from the time of Jesus.
586
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,200
In this case, burial ossuaries.
587
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:32,280
But all of them, ultimately, fake.
588
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,680
The whole Talpiot Tomb
phenomenon really, shows how
589
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:44,880
desperate people are to puncture
the story of the son of God.
590
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,880
To literally bring him down to
Earth, because the idea Christians
591
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,040
have, of course, is that Jesus was
taken bodily into Heaven.
592
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,120
Therefore there would be no body
left, no bones, nothing.
593
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:01,680
And to find a tomb, or an ossuary,
which has bits of bone in it,
594
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:03,120
belonging to Jesus,
595
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,360
well, that shows you how wrong the
Church has been, doesn't it?
596
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,040
The curious thing for me is that a
number of academics across the
597
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,360
world can find no hard evidence
for the existence of Jesus.
598
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,200
Beyond faith, are there even any
facts that can help to uncover the
599
00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:29,240
mystery and corroborate the stories?
600
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,560
I got in touch with self-proclaimed
agnostic, and Australian author,
601
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,000
Raphael Lataster.
602
00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:41,480
So Raphael, do you think the man
known as Jesus in the New Testament
603
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:42,640
actually existed?
604
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:51,240
I am actually a Jesus agnostic,
but I do favour the atheist view.
605
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,760
I think that
Jesus probably did not exist.
606
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,840
Because the sources for Jesus,
607
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,920
I think there's a lot of problems
with that.
608
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:01,680
And an alternative theory about
609
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:04,880
Christian origins I think
is much more plausible.
610
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:09,400
Because presumably, someone had
to start Christianity, right?
611
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,720
Yes, and I think that someone
is someone like Paul.
612
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,600
Not necessarily Paul the apostle,
but someone like Paul.
613
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,520
Paul, who gives us the earliest
614
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:22,320
Christian sources, he speaks
of the Celestial Son of Man,
615
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,640
who some Jews at the time
already believed in.
616
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,760
And this person, in my view,
became... Evolved to become
617
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,440
the Jesus we know and love.
And I think someone just like Paul,
618
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,160
basically started Christianity, they
thought they had visions of the
619
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,640
Celestial Son of Man,
just like Paul did.
620
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:48,440
I think it'll be fair to say that
Yeshua Ben Yosef was a real living,
621
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,480
breathing human being.
Probably not a God.
622
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,920
Not the son of God,
as far as we know.
623
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,960
However, about 100
or 150 years later,
624
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:04,200
when people came to compile the sort
of definitive versions of the
625
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:09,280
scriptures of the New Testament,
they had this urgent demand.
626
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:15,000
This sort of urgent impulse to
transform the man into a sort of
627
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,720
divine superhero and craft a story,
628
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,560
a series of stories that were
completely unforgettable and would
629
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,240
have such a transformative impact
on people's life.
630
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:29,280
So, it was the later writers,
mythologizing the real sort of,
631
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,600
human being from 150 years earlier.
632
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,280
Some of the more miraculous events
in the Gospels,
633
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:40,720
turning water into wine,
634
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,520
I think we can kind of discount
those, but it seems to me,
635
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:50,880
feasible that a man existed and was
causing problems for the Romans.
636
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,080
That doesn't seem that unlikely
to me.
637
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,680
And regarding miracles and claims
about gods,
638
00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:01,560
yes, these things almost certainly
didn't happen with our current
639
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,840
naturalistic understandings of
science and how the world works.
640
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,840
But, you're right, the idea
of a historical Jesus.
641
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:09,520
It shouldn't seem that implausible.
642
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,640
However, when you really look at the
evidence and you see that there's a
643
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:15,920
lot of problems in the writings
of Paul, who is one of the...
644
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,000
Who actually is the earliest
Christian author,
645
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,640
and you see him not talking
about historical Jesus,
646
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,240
and you see the best sources
that we have are the Gospels.
647
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,600
And there's plenty of questions
about the reliability of those
648
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,720
sources, you start thinking,
OK, there's problems here.
649
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,440
I obviously think that it is more
probable than not that he didn't
650
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:36,440
even exist, but even if he did,
we're dealing with ancient history
651
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,000
and you're dealing
with religious biases.
652
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,640
You've got religious biases
coming from all around you.
653
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,520
You've got the Jews and the
Christians and the Muslims.
654
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,160
You've got thousands of years
separating us.
655
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,640
I think it's going to be very
difficult for you to find some solid
656
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,000
evidence that Jesus existed.
657
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,840
I mean, you can find the manuscript,
you could find a statue.
658
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,960
I might believe in my tour
guide's claims,
659
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,680
how do we know this really
does go back to Jesus?
660
00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:02,920
We just... We don't know.
661
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,800
You have to be... When it comes to
history, when it comes to life in
662
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,520
general, but especially when it
comes to history, you have to have a
663
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,960
certain level of Agnosticism.
You can't know for sure.
664
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,360
And with ancient history,
it's even worse.
665
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,480
Jerusalem and its relationship with
Jesus Christ is clearly important
666
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,000
to many Christians.
667
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:28,520
The masses flock to see
the Biblical sites
668
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:33,000
where their Messiah once stood,
believing without doubt he did
669
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,840
preach here, did aggravate
the Romans,
670
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,400
and was indeed crucified somewhere
in this city.
671
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,280
Throughout history,
we've had one Jesus.
672
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,320
Fascinatingly, now we have two.
673
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,520
People look at Jesus,
the religious figure.
674
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,240
And Jesus, the historical figure.
675
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,200
And that's now ingrained
and accepted.
676
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:59,120
Christians can't have it both ways.
They say, I know in my heart
677
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,440
that Jesus is the son of God
and he loves me etc.
678
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,440
But look, if you look in the Bible,
679
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,080
he went there and he did this at
this time and look who was emperor
680
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,040
at the time and you can pin it down
it down historically, can't you?
681
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,240
But actually, most of the time,
you can't.
682
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,640
And, they're confusing their
emotions with the facts.
683
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,320
But the man who lived
was just a man.
684
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,320
It sounds a bit harsh to say
we have been hoodwinked.
685
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,160
But we have.
686
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,360
There was a character that they
wanted to make out to be very,
687
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,720
very special, that we
could look up to.
688
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,520
A character that was
a conduit to God.
689
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:42,160
But that character never existed.
690
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,600
In a court of law,
no jury would say, yes,
691
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,320
the historical evidence proves it.
On the contrary.
692
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,960
And over time, the institutions
kind of said, hm,
693
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,160
people believe this happened,
we can use that.
694
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,440
People forgot it was allegory.
695
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,400
It was sacred. But it wasn't
historical.
696
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,840
They are two of the great
questions today.
697
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,200
Did Jesus Christ really exist?
698
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:17,560
And was his incredible story
actually true?
699
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:22,080
It's the basis of the New Testament
and fundamental to Christianity.
700
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,400
And whilst the city of Jerusalem
and all it's sites are there for
701
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,240
everyone to see, there is so
little tangible physical evidence
702
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,880
that a man known as
Yeshua Ben Yosef was ever here.
703
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,480
There are a few historical
references to him,
704
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,320
but most written reports start at
least a century after his death.
705
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:42,800
And as a result, the questions
remain.
706
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,920
So perhaps we should add
a third question?
707
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,000
Does actually proving his existence,
his life and his deeds,
708
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,800
really matter? Or is faith enough?
709
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,440
I'll see you next time.
64373
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