Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:08,120 --> 00:00:10,560
High levels of unemployment
have always been
2
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,280
a hard and constant feature of life
in the West End of Newcastle...
3
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,200
Society has no solutions
for them...
4
00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,200
My work depends on an investment
of time...
5
00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,320
Intensified as it is by
the government's
6
00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,640
extreme free market philosophy...
7
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,080
The Demon Snapper...
8
00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:26,760
Of Dad's inexperience...
9
00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:28,760
Gone since Thatcher...
10
00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,000
The confused fantasies...
11
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,560
Your diverse community...
12
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,040
I've been documenting the human
effects of unemployment...
13
00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,000
The consequences of which
will be enormous.
14
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,120
Young people already experiencing
problems...
15
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,560
The future is nevertheless clearly
discernible...
16
00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,240
Dear Ella,
17
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,120
I give you my heart.
18
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,560
The joy in her photographs
is incredible.
19
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,560
The history of working class people.
20
00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:57,520
She recognised, you know, beauty,
21
00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,040
but it was usually as a means
to an end.
22
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:03,680
She was a fighter.
23
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,680
She wasn't going to sit still.
24
00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,320
She fought the good fight.
25
00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:13,200
If you want to photograph the tribe,
got to be part of the tribe.
26
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:14,960
You've got to dance the same dance.
27
00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,640
When I think of my mam,
it's always people.
28
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,000
She just took pictures of what
was in front of her
29
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,600
because she saw that what
was in front of her,
30
00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,000
her world and the people in it,
31
00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,000
they needed to be seen, do you know?
32
00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,400
And she knew that, with this camera,
33
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:03,360
she could capture it,
34
00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:08,400
show people and give people a value.
35
00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,160
Do you know? These people existed.
36
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:13,120
They mattered. They lived.
They were there.
37
00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:16,040
And my mam was going to make sure
that they were seen.
38
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,640
I'd seen her work in a show
in Aberystwyth,
39
00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:28,480
and I walked round that show
40
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,400
and saw lots of work that
I'd seen before,
41
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,400
and then I saw some that I hadn't...
Yeah.
42
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,240
..and that I was really captivated
by,
43
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,560
and I just thought that
this is different -
44
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,000
I need to meet this person
and find out why.
45
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,000
My mam had died and I was
clearing out her stuff,
46
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,840
and I found this letter,
and it was from you. Yeah.
47
00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,000
And you had been to meet my mam,
48
00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,000
but it was just saying how much
49
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:55,680
you'd enjoyed meeting her. Yeah.
50
00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,720
And you found her honesty, like,
so refreshing.
51
00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,360
And you don't...
52
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,800
You don't meet many people
like Tish.
53
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,880
I've always sort of thought
54
00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,480
that history is so posh, you know?
55
00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,120
It's so much about rich wealth.
56
00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,760
Someone from that place
genuinely recording
57
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,600
and making part of history
the lives of people,
58
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,000
experiences like mine,
59
00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:24,880
was really important,
60
00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:26,400
and there she was doing it.
61
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,720
So all of that made it feel
more imperative
62
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,800
that her work was actually embedded
63
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,000
as part of a history of Britain.
Yeah.
64
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,040
A history of working class people.
65
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,360
I have no idea why Tish's work
wasn't better known.
66
00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,440
Those photographs just felt
really honest
67
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,120
and I just couldn't work out how
someone had managed it.
68
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:48,760
Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
69
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,000
Yeah, you just needed to know
who and why and how. Yeah.
70
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,640
How's this person...? Where have
they come from to do this?
71
00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:57,000
How have they got the insight
to be able to do this?
72
00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,280
You know, grief's a horrible thing.
73
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,280
And at that point, when you got
in touch with me,
74
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,160
you were obviously, like...
It was so raw, yeah. ..very raw.
75
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,240
I have to say, I've never seen
a reaction like this.
76
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:08,800
I've never seen somebody...
Really?
77
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:10,880
No, so driven, Ella!
78
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:12,200
So driven.
79
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,000
You know, it's so, like,
"Let's get this done!
80
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,760
"Let's make this right!"
81
00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,040
OPERATIC MUSIC PLAYS
82
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,640
What was it like, being Tish
Murtha's little sister?
83
00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,000
Well, for a start,
84
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:28,880
she demanded that, when the new baby
came along,
85
00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,240
it was going to be called Eileen.
86
00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,720
No-one had any say at all?
Nobody had any say.
87
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:34,080
That was what was happening.
88
00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,000
So she would've been two and a half.
Two and a half
89
00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:39,560
and she was already so determined?
Yeah, yeah.
90
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:40,760
Yeah, she was...
91
00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,200
Yeah. Yeah. Very, very determined.
92
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,440
So this is... Tish.
93
00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,240
..Tish. Me and Mark.
94
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:51,840
My brother, Mark, yeah.
95
00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:54,200
I love it. School photo.
96
00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,000
She was the third oldest,
wasn't she?
97
00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,560
Was she quite protective?
Of the younger ones?
98
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,720
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, that was her role.
99
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,200
That was her job, really.
100
00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,000
I mean, there's nine months
between some of us. Yeah.
101
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,880
And my mother was sort of
very gentle. Yeah.
102
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,000
She was great. Wonderful mother.
103
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,120
Encouraged us to be interested
in all sorts of things.
104
00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,000
You know, interested to cultivate...
105
00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,160
..creative and artistic things
that she'd seen in all of us,
106
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,920
in all of her ten... Her brood.
107
00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,000
And I can remember her buying us
things like crayons
108
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,120
and pencils and paper,
even when she couldn't afford it.
109
00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,720
I've been quite close to Tish
110
00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,440
because we used to go on our travel.
111
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,440
She used to take me around with her
112
00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,200
and I was probably a pain
in the backside to her.
113
00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:48,280
But, when we moved to Elswick,
it was a very different...
114
00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:50,320
..completely different
to South Shields.
115
00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,000
I call it the darkness on the edge
of town...
116
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,000
EILEEN LAUGHS
117
00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,000
..because it was!
118
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,720
It was a strange world.
119
00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,680
It had a floating population
of people.
120
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,200
There was always arterial blood
spilt along Elswick Road.
121
00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,520
And, you know, sometimes
it's funny, isn't it?
122
00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,600
Your memories are black and white,
but the blood's always red.
123
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:15,200
All around us was these
derelict houses,
124
00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:17,480
some of them got knocked down
and levelled,
125
00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,440
so there was always a wasteland
126
00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,000
where the kids could
have fires and...
127
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,000
But it was things like this.
128
00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,000
And the name of the street there,
129
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,040
in all its finery.
130
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,040
EILEEN LAUGHS
131
00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,000
So, do you know the picture of you
132
00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,120
where you're with three other boys
and you're on the pillars
133
00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:53,880
of the old church?
134
00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:55,360
You look like statues?
135
00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,000
Yous just look like yous
just own the place.
136
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:00,560
Do you know? Like...
137
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:22,560
What did he makes yous do?
138
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:28,960
What, even as kids?
139
00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:51,400
Yeah.
140
00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:25,800
We used to look in the bins...
Have a scavenge?
141
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,440
Look for treasures, yeah?
Oh, yeah, we were proper skip rats.
142
00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,000
So she found a camera?
Yeah. Yeah.
143
00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,000
We used to go in the old houses
and people had just left,
144
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,200
and there was always stuff in them.
145
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,720
There was encyclopaedias.
146
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,280
Some of the most amazing books
and encyclopaedias.
147
00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,600
And I think she probably got it
in one of those houses.
148
00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,880
It was considered to be the worst
square mile.. Bloody hell.
149
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,240
..in England at that time.
150
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:57,000
Often you'd get cars driving up,
and driving along beside you
151
00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,160
and asking you, you know, to get in.
152
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:04,360
And there was lots of curious people
who were probably fine,
153
00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:05,960
but you just didn't know,
154
00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,200
and you had to learn quite quickly
and be streetwise.
155
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,600
So I think she took to carrying
that camera
156
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,000
because you had to keep
yourself safe.
157
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,600
You had to keep your brothers
and sisters safe.
158
00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:20,720
She always felt safer when she...
Yeah.
159
00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,000
..even though it had no film in it.
Yeah, that's right.
160
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:26,760
So when do you...? Like, when do you
remember her first starting
161
00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,000
to be interested in photography
162
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,200
and actually having some film in a
camera and taking photographs?
163
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,440
Probably about...
When she was about...
164
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:38,560
..15, 16.
165
00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,680
I remember me and her
166
00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:45,120
taking photographs one weekend
of each other.
167
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,240
I mean, I didn't know how it worked
particularly
168
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,640
and I think Tish was just learning
anyway,
169
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,200
so we took these photographs
of each other.
170
00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:54,800
That was one of the very first.
171
00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:56,360
I mean, so damaged, but...
172
00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:57,640
It's beautiful, though.
173
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:02,000
And she must have had access
to a darkroom,
174
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,840
and I think Jos and Bob had set
one up in their house.
175
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,360
I met Eileen first at a kind of
youth club. Yeah.
176
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,320
She must've taken me back
for a cup of tea.
177
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,160
Tish must've been there.
178
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,160
And then they started coming up
to my house
179
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,640
where I was a student
at Ravensworth.
180
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,000
I introduced her to the darkroom
and she raved over it.
181
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,560
You know, going into a dark room
and seeing actual photographs
182
00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:27,000
appearing in front of your eyes
in the dark. Yeah.
183
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:28,480
Well, she...
184
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:29,840
I have this.
185
00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,520
And it says on the front of it,
186
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:33,920
"To Jos and Bob,
187
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,000
"Do you see what you two started
when you gave me the use
188
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,000
"of a camera and darkroom and made
me go to college?"
189
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,040
I thought it would be a good idea
for Tish
190
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:44,520
to get formal instruction,
191
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,320
but she was petrified.
192
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,000
She was convinced that they
wouldn't take her.
193
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,000
Yeah, she didn't have confidence in
herself sometimes. No confidence.
194
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,160
And I think we literally turned up
at the front door
195
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:56,080
and I walked in and said,
"You're going in."
196
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,680
Then I left her to it.
197
00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:03,000
Well, I'm teaching on a course
in Newcastle, at Bath Lane.
198
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,400
So, what was she like?
199
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,560
She was tough.
200
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:09,680
She wasn't going to take
anything lying down.
201
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:12,000
She was tough. She was strong.
Yeah.
202
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,280
Fortunately, we had cameras that
we could lend students.
203
00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:16,640
She brought some stuff to me.
204
00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:18,280
You know, "That's my mam.
That's my nan.
205
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,560
"And that's my uncle. That's..."
Yeah.
206
00:12:21,560 --> 00:12:23,320
I said, "These are fantastic, Tish."
207
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,040
I said, "Go and do some more."
208
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,880
Yeah. You know, she recognised
beauty.
209
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,000
But, in fact, to me, the photographs
that are the ones that...
210
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,040
It's the ones of childhood. Yeah.
211
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,520
And it's to do with childhood.
It's not to do with poverty.
212
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:01,800
It's not to do with...
213
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,360
That's where the joy comes from.
214
00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:13,120
Your mother wanted to learn
how to take photographs
215
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,720
with a specific idea in mind.
216
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,200
You know, she wanted to document,
she wanted to photograph,
217
00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,480
to use as evidence and proof
218
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,120
to make people's lives better,
219
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,520
or to stop injustices and
that type of thing.
220
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,000
She wasn't interested in the rest
of the bollocks.
221
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,520
ETHEL LAUGHS
Dennis was subversive, shall we say?
222
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,240
I mean, for instance, when we did
the studio portraiture,
223
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,000
it was a lot more free than it was
probably meant to be.
224
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,000
The problem was that the course
she was on
225
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,560
wasn't a course that she
should've been on.
226
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:48,000
Oh, why not?
227
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,760
Because it was too specifically
commercial,
228
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,320
which did not include documentary,
229
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,480
so I did bend the course
a little bit.
230
00:13:57,520 --> 00:13:58,760
This is... School report?
231
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,560
Yeah! Well, it's... Oh, no.
Oh, my God!
232
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:05,520
"I intended to take pictures
of the cemetery railings..."
233
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,920
TISH: But the caretaker locked
the gates.
234
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,120
This meant I could only take
pictures
235
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,480
of the cemetery railings
from one angle,
236
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:17,760
so I decided to take the pictures
of the railings around the tomb.
237
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,360
I thought that the wrought iron
patterns on the rail
238
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,000
were very like funeral urns
239
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,680
that went very well with the object
they were enclosing.
240
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,240
On 12A and 13A,
241
00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,040
this is what I was trying to show.
242
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,600
The other shots were taken to show
the different angles,
243
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,680
but the pictures did not come out
as I expected.
244
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:40,680
They seemed blurred and
not sharp enough
245
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,600
to show the harshness
of the subject.
246
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,280
She was true to herself
247
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,040
and she was true to the medium,
and...
248
00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:52,560
..she was brilliant.
249
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:54,520
She was very, very good.
250
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,440
It was like she was born with the
silver camera in her hand.
251
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:17,680
Well, I liked her work.
252
00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,000
A lot of it centred around members
of her family
253
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,000
and they were at the tough end
of working class life,
254
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,680
and so she just photographed them.
255
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,000
The penny dropped later that what
they had in common was unemployed,
256
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,600
you know?
257
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,200
And they were in her neighbourhood.
258
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,360
They were good, they were intimate,
259
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,840
they were strong
and they were powerful -
260
00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:38,280
they were like her.
261
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,360
She was very brave round here,
I'll tell you. Mm.
262
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,280
I mean, people with cameras
around here
263
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,360
are normally people from the DSS
264
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,520
or the local police force
or whatever.
265
00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:52,680
People'd become very suspicious.
266
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,760
I mean, she took a few chances.
267
00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,520
The fact is that people knew
she was Tish Murtha
268
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,320
probably allowed her a little bit
more credence. A bit more leeway,
269
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,440
yeah. Yeah.
270
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,320
She was one of the kids.
271
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,800
Because of where we lived,
272
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,000
you couldn't just be
a passive bystander -
273
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,000
you had to be involved.
274
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,280
She kind of honed her eye,
if you like.
275
00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,360
And because she was a very
determined person,
276
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,120
she wasn't going to be
told that, well,
277
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,760
"You need to take pretty pictures -
that's what a camera's for."
278
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:34,680
She knew, you know,
279
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,360
that what was in front of her...
280
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,840
..was as important as anything.
Yeah.
281
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,200
I think she knew that this was
as valid
282
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,720
as any book you picked up
and looked at,
283
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,560
that what she was seeing in front
of her was our life
284
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,000
and it needed to give it a value,
you know? Yeah.
285
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,000
To put it there and say, you know,
286
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,840
"We are here. We have a value."
287
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:03,040
Definitely.
288
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,400
You couldn't go anywhere
in this country
289
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,960
and do documentary photography.
290
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,000
There was a magazine in those days,
a photograph magazine called
291
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:14,560
the British Journal of Photography,
292
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,320
and loads of courses were
advertised in there.
293
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,600
And I must have somehow or other
294
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,000
seen this thing about Newport
College of Art.
295
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,000
Here we go. Are you ready for this?
296
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,480
So, this...
297
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,280
Have a look at this and just...
298
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:31,960
"Be at Newport College of Art
299
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:37,600
"and ask for David Hurn or John
Charity on Tuesday, the 25th of May.
300
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,040
"Good luck. Dennis."
301
00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:41,480
Good grief!
302
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,000
I remember Tish very clearly.
303
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,840
She was the shortest interview
there's ever been. Yeah.
304
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,000
Because they came in and the first
question was,
305
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,720
"What do you want to photograph?"
306
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,760
And she literally did say,
307
00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,000
"I want to photograph a policeman
kicking kids," you know?
308
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:00,680
And I said, "You're in!"
309
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,200
It was a bit strange, really.
310
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,800
We all turned up at college
that first morning
311
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,160
and she was a bit sort of concerned
312
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,400
as to where she was going to sort
of plonk everything, I think,
313
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:13,680
more than anything else.
314
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,160
And I seem to remember saying
to her then,
315
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,120
"Where are you staying?"
Because everybody...
316
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:19,680
I was relatively local.
317
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,360
And your mother sort of said,
"Well, I don't know yet.
318
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:23,680
"I'm still working on it."
319
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:27,200
And I got the impression, I think,
that what her ultimate plan was,
320
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,000
that when everybody had gone,
she would've probably found
321
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,000
a corner in a darkroom somewhere
and settled down.
322
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,360
I suggested to her that I had
a spare room
323
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:38,520
and she was quite welcome
to come and stay.
324
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:40,000
This camera here... Yeah.
325
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,000
So this is my mam's old one...
Yep, yep, yep.
326
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,520
..that she bought on hire
purchase... Yes.
327
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,880
..from Dixons Newport... Yes.
328
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,360
..in November, 1976.
329
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:51,800
And you were her guarantor! Oh!
330
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,000
DAVID LAUGHS
331
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,000
Oh!
332
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,440
God, that was dangerous.
333
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,880
£189.
334
00:18:57,880 --> 00:18:59,200
How sweet.
335
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,680
Well, that was one of the most
sensible things I did.
336
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,760
I set up this sort of pattern
of working
337
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,000
by which you worked with
a single person,
338
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,880
and then a relationship
between people
339
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,840
and what's called an
establishing shot.
340
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,440
I've seen it on the contact sheets,
yeah. On the contact sheets?
341
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,120
If you look at the John Ford movie
Stagecoach,
342
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,480
the film opens up with
a big landscape -
343
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,320
actually in Arizona, bizarrely -
344
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,840
and it's this little, tiny
stagecoach going...
345
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,200
That's an establishing shot!
346
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,320
It tells you where the film...
347
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,000
The film is taking place out there.
348
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,320
And then it goes in and it shows
you the stagecoach.
349
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:43,480
And then it goes in and you see
the close-up of John Wayne.
350
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,440
All I was doing was teaching them
how to do that
351
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,920
with any story you did
352
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,120
and what was good was she didn't
fight me on this.
353
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,040
Did she fight you on much stuff?
354
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:54,880
Yeah, nearly everything.
355
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:54,880
ELLA LAUGHS
356
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,720
But just because she was her.
357
00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,920
She obviously felt most comfortable
if she felt she was having a say.
358
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,240
OK.
359
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,600
And I loved that.
360
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,000
You see, this is so typical of her,
361
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:13,000
in that she would seemingly be
this abrasive person,
362
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,000
but she was the person that was
keeping her files
363
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,800
and captioning and doing all that
back at home.
364
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,000
She was quite a firebrand,
I suppose,
365
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,000
and you could tell that straight
away.
366
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,000
You know, there was no
messing about.
367
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,880
It's reflected in her work,
isn't it?
368
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,280
Very gritty and very to the point.
369
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,640
But what I think impressed me was
that there must be
370
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,600
quite a few people that
she photographed
371
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,880
that would've said, "No," you know?
372
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,480
"I don't want to be photographed."
373
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,320
But there was no sort of barrier.
374
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:51,400
We just got completely taken over
by doing documentary work.
375
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,000
We shot about 20 rolls of film
a week,
376
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,520
and we had to go out and do
a portrait
377
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:58,520
of a worker or something.
378
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,320
So we'd all be going out
doing lollipop ladies
379
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,800
and street cleaners and going into
schools and everything.
380
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,480
And Tish went down and
went into pubs -
381
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,000
that was her home ground.
382
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,000
And I suppose that's what struck me
straight away,
383
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,400
that this was someone who had
an agenda.
384
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,560
At the end of the course
was the Queen's Jubilee...
385
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,120
ELLA LAUGHS
386
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:07,120
..so we all had to take pictures
to do with it.
387
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:09,720
At first, your mother was not
interested at all,
388
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:14,720
so we did spend a while sort of
persuading her to come round.
389
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,200
If you sort of worked down a list
of the things
390
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,720
that the Jubilee did,
391
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,000
street parties were obviously quite
a strong...
392
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,880
And you could break that down into,
then, posh street parties,
393
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,880
middle class street parties and
working class street parties,
394
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,040
and clearly that suddenly became
what in fact she did.
395
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,040
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
396
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,040
So, how did Tish make you feel?
397
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,120
I think probably jealous to
a certain extent. Really?
398
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:47,840
Yeah, because, I mean, her work was
what the course was about.
399
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,000
One important thing that David
taught us -
400
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,760
you had to get empathy
with your subject -
401
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,360
her background obviously
helped her do that.
402
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:59,560
And she had an opportunity to show
the rest of the world, I think,
403
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,360
what life was really like.
404
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,840
She had a wonderful picture
of a couple,
405
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,080
a disadvantaged couple,
who were sleeping on the street
406
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,000
and it's so tender.
407
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,960
It is so tender.
408
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,040
She had a passion and she knew
what she wanted to do.
409
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,160
You can't teach somebody
how to have passion.
410
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,640
Were you in Newcastle when she came
back from Wales? Yeah. Yeah?
411
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,600
So did you notice a difference
in her then?
412
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,880
Absolutely, yes.
413
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,000
And there was so much going
on politically at that time
414
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,480
as well, wasn't there? Yeah.
415
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,560
You know, there was a whole
generation
416
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:59,240
of disenfranchised and disaffected
young people who had nothing.
417
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,160
And there were so many hurdles
on the way up
418
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,440
to her getting to that point.
419
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,640
The address alone -
420
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,040
the area we lived in was a no-no,
was a block.
421
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,880
It seemed that, OK,
she'd made a step
422
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,600
and gone beyond Elswick.
423
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,240
And I think she needed to learn
the technical things
424
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,440
and she needed to perfect that
425
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,000
and know how to create
a beautiful image,
426
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,680
to give it a nice finish,
427
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,560
but the actual content
she knew already
428
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:30,880
because she'd lived it.
429
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,360
RADIO: Last month,
Vickers management
430
00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:37,400
announced its intention to close
its Scotswood factory
431
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,800
in Newcastle, putting almost
800 jobs at risk.
432
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,600
The workers launched a campaign
to oppose the closure
433
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,360
and issued a list of demands,
434
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:50,000
including clarification on how
the decision
435
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,000
to close the factory was made
436
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,000
and disclosure of what discussions
had taken place
437
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,320
with the Government for financial
support and new investment.
438
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,000
Yesterday morning, the workers took
over the factory, locking the doors
439
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,680
and gates to stage a sit-in protest.
440
00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:20,000
TISH: I don't like the term
"community photographer" -
441
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,280
makes me think of middle class
trendies.
442
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,000
My use of photography
and my approach to it
443
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,000
is based on the conviction
that the fundamental value
444
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,000
of the medium is its capacity
to provide direct,
445
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,000
accurate and vital records
of the conditions,
446
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,480
events and experience that shape
our lives.
447
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:46,200
I've been documenting the human
effects of unemployment
448
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,000
and the unsuccessful campaign
against the closure
449
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,040
of Vickers' Scotswood works.
450
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,200
I hope it shows the effects
of unemployment on men
451
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,640
and its repercussions on society.
452
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,040
I think it's a strong exhibition
and can raise a few issues.
453
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,040
INDISTINCT SINGING
454
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,000
She was frightening. Frightening?
455
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,800
Your mother was a bit scary, yeah.
Was she?
456
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,000
Oh, yeah! But she was only
a tiny little thing!
457
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,360
I remember her telling me
that the management
458
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,280
had taken chisels to the last two
dates on the equipment
459
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:35,880
so that people couldn't say,
460
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,000
"Well, you know, no wonder
the bloody factory isn't efficient
461
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,840
"because you haven't actually
changed this since 1932."
462
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,360
Tish was firmly on the left -
unabashedly on the left -
463
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:53,000
and she did work for different
unions at different times -
464
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,280
not to get paid,
but just to help them.
465
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,480
She was committed.
She was a committed individual.
466
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,640
She was committed to working class
struggle,
467
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,760
which is continuous
and never-ending.
468
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,600
She came from a family with a fierce
reputation.
469
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,640
Her brothers were pretty tough,
you know?
470
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,240
You didn't argue with Tish Murtha
471
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,880
because you didn't want her brothers
coming after you, that's for sure!
472
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,560
Whoa, whoa, whoa! And certainly you
didn't want her dad chasing you.
473
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,160
Oh, God, no. Yeah.
474
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,040
OPERATIC MUSIC PLAYS
475
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,000
In the background of our life,
476
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,560
there was always this opera.
477
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,320
You know, all these romantic arias.
Yeah.
478
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,880
So that actually really
sort of heightened...
479
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,160
The tension? ..the tension.
480
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,440
There was all this, you know,
sort of aggro.
481
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,880
And you not knowing,
when you came in,
482
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,520
what you were going to have
to deal with.
483
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,160
I don't know how my nana did it!
484
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,720
Some of the things she put up with,
485
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,160
other people would've gone,
you know? Yeah.
486
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,000
In spite of having children.
487
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,720
But she stayed for us.
488
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,360
He was harsh with all his kids.
489
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,000
He was a man of his time,
490
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,800
that's all I'm going to say.
491
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:54,600
He was a man of his time.
492
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,760
How do you get over something
like that, Carl?
493
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,720
Even though we were scared of him,
we would challenge him. Yeah.
494
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,440
And it's always quite a dangerous
place to be
495
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,160
because you don't know where...
496
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,600
You know, you don't know
where the line is.
497
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,720
You know, I think he'd been quite
violent with my mother as well.
498
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,000
He would line everybody up and say,
"Right, everybody bend over."
499
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,760
Used to like to show people
his control...
500
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:46,480
..because he used to use the belt.
501
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,000
Well, I know my mam had...
502
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,200
She had some scars.
503
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,440
God, yeah.
504
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,000
She refused to cry... Yes.
505
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,120
..which I think...
Yeah, that's absolutely true.
506
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,000
..says a lot about my mam's...
507
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,000
Strength of character.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
508
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,840
You know, she wouldn't...
She wouldn't let him see.
509
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,200
My granda, he had the fight
with the council.
510
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,160
He was threatened
with rent arrears.
511
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,680
So you were going to be evicted?
Yeah. Yeah.
512
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,840
He said, "Well, that'll mean my kids
will end up in care," sort of thing.
513
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,000
And, you know, "OK, go ahead
and do it."
514
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,280
He called their bluff -
and they did it.
515
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:26,880
How old were you?
516
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,000
I was four. Gosh.
517
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,800
And Tish would've been six,
six and a half.
518
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,000
We were taken to this huge place
519
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,520
and told we had to be
very quiet and...
520
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,800
We went in and we were lined up,
521
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,320
and then the nuns all came and...
God!
522
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,440
..chose which ones they wanted.
523
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,760
You know, "I'll have this one.
I'll have that one."
524
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,000
So we were... We were separated.
525
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,000
They were cruel.
They were very cruel.
526
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,120
You know, horrible...
527
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,920
..quite violent women, they were.
528
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:01,360
And the funny thing about it,
529
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,120
and probably Tish is just the same,
530
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,880
I hadn't realised I was really
alive properly
531
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,400
until that moment, you know?
532
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:24,280
She was a very determined person.
533
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,000
She'd come from the school
of hard knocks, basically.
534
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,000
And I was involved with Side Gallery
at the time
535
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,280
and helped get a commission for Tish
to photograph juvenile jazz bands.
536
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,000
TISH: Although the regimentation
and discipline
537
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,280
of the Second World War and its
accompanying boom in industry
538
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,520
encouraged their decline,
539
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,760
jazz bands have re-entered the scene
and reestablish themselves
540
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,160
in new form,
541
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,680
mainly in the areas where economic
and social deprivation
542
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,000
are the norm.
543
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,480
These pictures were taken in
the West End of Newcastle,
544
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:11,640
an area categorised by and noted for
its inadequate facilities,
545
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,000
including everything from housing
to public telephones.
546
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,000
Children's leisure activities
are no exception.
547
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,720
And the jazz band reigned supreme,
548
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:27,000
as much a feature of the area
as the high-rise flats
549
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,040
and the local dole office.
550
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,800
In addition to the official band,
551
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,480
small groups of children who,
for various reasons,
552
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,600
are not eligible for membership -
553
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,840
the jazz band rejects,
554
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,640
improvised toy bands.
555
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,000
These often start out as an attempt
to emulate the big band
556
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,680
but involve the child's imagination
557
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,560
to almost the same extent as the
official band denies it.
558
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:02,000
To be accepted into and remain in
the juvenile jazz band,
559
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,680
a child must put aside
all normal behaviour
560
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,360
and become the plaything of
the failed soldier,
561
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,360
the ex-armed forces member
and their ilk.
562
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,240
Any spark of individuality
is crushed
563
00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:18,520
by the military training imposed
564
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:23,320
until the child's actions resemble
those of a mechanical tin soldier
565
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:28,040
acting out the confused fantasies
of an older generation.
566
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:34,800
A recent move by local authorities
in Newcastle
567
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,000
gives jazz bands the official
seal of approval
568
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,120
by the allocation of grants
from local funds,
569
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:46,240
ensuring that, whatever the demand,
these poor substitutes
570
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:49,920
for creative recreational activity
are here to stay...
571
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,040
..with a little help from the
taxpayer.
572
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,600
She didn't like juvenile bands
573
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,920
because she thought it was
a complete waste of time
574
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:14,360
and energy to blow on a kazoo
575
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,000
when you could've learned
a musical instrument.
576
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,000
It used to drive her mad, you know?
She hated it,
577
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,040
but she knew it was part of the
culture of where she grew up.
578
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,360
It was kind of like the view that
this was somehow creative.
579
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:30,680
And Tish would go on and say,
580
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,720
"They're marching up and down there!
It's like some bloody neo-fascist!"
581
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:37,000
And, also, she kind of wasn't very
comfortable with the relationship
582
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,000
between the people who were training
583
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,680
the young girls wearing
extremely short skirts.
584
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,160
You know, and looking back on it,
585
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:45,000
it is a bit kind of bizarre,
isn't it?
586
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,600
But I remember writing a letter
to the Evening Chronicle.
587
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,320
Yeah, cos people all started
writing in,
588
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:50,720
calling her the "Demon Snapper".
589
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:52,760
And I think you wrote in to
defend her, didn't you?
590
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,240
Yeah, I did.
591
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,320
TISH: In reply to letters
in Family Extra
592
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:00,760
on April 4th,
593
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,000
I would like to make it quite clear
I am not attacking individuals
594
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,040
or specific juvenile jazz bands.
595
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,000
Having observed the growth
of these bands
596
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,720
throughout my childhood,
597
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:15,360
I feel I'm as entitled
as the next person
598
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,640
to draw my own conclusion based on
these experiences
599
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,600
and I find the photographic medium
a suitable vehicle
600
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,040
for their expression.
601
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,600
The amount of controversy generated
by the exhibition
602
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,880
has been as much a surprise to me
as to anyone else.
603
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,000
Since the discussion is now
under way,
604
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,400
I would like to invite any member of
the public to bring their views
605
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:46,040
to a debate scheduled for April 25th
at 7:30pm at the Side Gallery.
606
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,040
Hopefully the issue can be
thoroughly and fairly discussed.
607
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,800
Tish Murtha, the "Demon Snapper".
608
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,520
She didn't come across as a person
that you'd mess with...
609
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:04,160
Did she not? ..that
easily, you know?
610
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,760
No, she didn't mind upsetting people
if it brought the agenda forward,
611
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:09,200
that it was militaristic,
612
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:10,640
that most of these bands were run
613
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,840
by failed Sergeant Majors
from the Army,
614
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,880
bullying the kids into being
performing monkeys, really.
615
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,400
It's very important that people
from within communities
616
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,680
record their own community.
617
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,560
If there's any bleakness in my work,
it's bleakness that I've felt.
618
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,880
You know, the thing is, with myself
and your mam,
619
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,120
we were living in these
marginalised communities
620
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,000
and we were part of the community,
which was a rare thing at the time.
621
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,000
It was a different story
when you're actually
622
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,720
from the place that you're
working in.
623
00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:40,920
You've got that mentality that
you're photographing
624
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,240
your people, really.
625
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,000
You're part of the tribe and you're
trying to do your best
626
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,440
to sort of represent the tribe
in the best way.
627
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,480
You know, when I first saw
your mam's jazz band work,
628
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,240
I was just amazed how close
she got into people.
629
00:39:53,240 --> 00:39:55,640
She spent time with people,
which is obvious.
630
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:58,600
You've got to invest a lot of time
actually getting to know people
631
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,440
before you can get close to people
632
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,640
and where the camera becomes
the secondary thing.
633
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,360
You're just there as part
of the crowd
634
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,800
and you're documenting things.
635
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,000
She invested a lot of time
in that work.
636
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,000
She would spend months and months
photographing
637
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,640
these kids in Elswick.
638
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,080
There's the photograph of the guy
with the cigarette
639
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,960
hanging out his mouth, and he's
playing cards
640
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:19,200
and stuff like that. Yeah.
641
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,680
To take a photograph like that,
you've got to be there
642
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,800
for a long, long time to study
what's going on.
643
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,640
I would like to see the photographs
either side of that one, you know?
644
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,440
Tish used to work on a body of work
rather than just a single image.
645
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,320
Where you're building up a story,
646
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,000
you're building up the narrative
647
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,000
and you're bringing all these
characters in, you know?
648
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,680
And it builds up a wider picture
649
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,480
rather than just one
single portrait.
650
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:06,120
I'd been sitting on our wall
at the front of the house,
651
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,800
just entertaining the kids
as they went by.
652
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,600
All the kids seemed to run
over the road
653
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,000
and went in this direction.
654
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,000
And when we got there,
we saw the brothers
655
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,560
jumping out of the top window.
656
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,000
That type of activity was
all day long.
657
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,240
Nothing else for them to do.
658
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:23,600
That is reality.
659
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,360
That's the way it was.
That was your life?
660
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,040
And that's... We're entitled
to show it.
661
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,640
What were you thinking
about on that wall?
662
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,040
Do you have a favourite?
663
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,560
I love this one of you.
You're stunning.
664
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,000
Do you know, like...?
665
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:58,520
What was happening there, then?
666
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,200
Yeah.
667
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,000
There you are.
668
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,400
"Handle with care."
669
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,280
What did you want to do, then,
when you grew up?
670
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:34,720
You wanted to be an actor?
671
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:39,000
"Carl was admitted to John Marley
School in September, 1977.
672
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,560
"He is an honest young man
673
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,440
"and we have no hesitation
in recommending him
674
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,120
"for any position of trust.
675
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,560
"This letter is intended to be shown
to prospective employers."
676
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,000
And you were just...?
677
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:52,720
And you were sent out to just...?
678
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:54,400
It was just slave labour.
679
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,000
It was a Thatcherite scheme.
680
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,840
Take the numbers down of
the youth unemployed.
681
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,320
It was a Youth Opportunities scheme.
682
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:20,840
For your dole money,
you had to join a scheme
683
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,520
that would do voluntary work
here and there,
684
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,120
but that's all you were ever
going to be good for.
685
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,000
You can see why some of these kids
turned to crime.
686
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,960
They were forced onto these silly
schemes that led to nowhere.
687
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,440
"We'll stop your money if you don't
go on it."
688
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:40,160
And treating them like they were
little children or serfs, serfdom.
689
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,680
She was seeing her brothers,
particularly,
690
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:50,320
who literally they were a forgotten
generation of young people.
691
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:51,680
There was nothing for them.
692
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,640
You were often sent
for an interview,
693
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:56,600
but, as soon as they knew you were
from Elswick,
694
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,320
you didn't stand much chance.
695
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,640
Tish identified with
youth unemployment
696
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,160
because she was unemployed.
697
00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:10,000
She knew exactly what was happening
to them, what a struggle it was.
698
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,000
She was so angry about it, you know,
and she wanted...
699
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,240
She record it. She recorded her
friends in their struggles,
700
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:20,000
these young kids who couldn't
get jobs, you know?
701
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,560
They'd left school without
any qualifications.
702
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,000
If they had qualifications,
what job were they going to get?
703
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,520
There were no jobs going.
704
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:30,960
Where there is discord,
may we bring harmony.
705
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,200
Where there is error,
may we bring truth.
706
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,240
Where there is doubt,
may we bring faith.
707
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:40,320
And where there is despair,
may we bring hope.
708
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,000
TISH: High levels of unemployment
have always been a hard
709
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,040
and constant feature of life in
the West End of Newcastle.
710
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:24,720
The area, built up in
the 19th century
711
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:27,560
on the basis of heavy engineering
and shipbuilding,
712
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,000
once at the very centre
of the economy,
713
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,520
has been contending with the
accumulated effects
714
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,760
of industrial decline and stagnation
for much of the century
715
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,160
and its physical symptoms
are apparent
716
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:43,040
in the area's general air of
dereliction and decay.
717
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:47,760
The official assessments place
718
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,440
the actual number out of work
in this area at 1,700 -
719
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:56,040
over double the rate in comparison
with the rest of Newcastle.
720
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:03,360
Approximately 1,100 of these
are under the age of 30.
721
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,680
Clearly a very serious situation.
722
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,000
Nevertheless, the Government's
Youth Opportunity Programme
723
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,000
obscures the real situation,
as those participating
724
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:19,200
are officially termed employed and
never enter the statistics.
725
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,000
Carl Murtha left school
in summer 1979
726
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,280
with a number of qualifications,
an excellent reference
727
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,440
and an ambition to work in some
capacity with a drama workshop.
728
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,480
His experiences since then
have convinced him
729
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,000
that he and hundreds of others
like him
730
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,600
will never be allowed to be
anything more
731
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:46,720
than part of the growing reserves
of a fully expendable
732
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:48,200
cheap labour market.
733
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:54,560
After six weeks of constant
searching for work to no avail,
734
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,000
Carl and his mate Cuddles,
from the same street,
735
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,560
received cards from the
careers centre
736
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:02,000
which informed them that,
737
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,760
"An exciting opportunity has arisen.
738
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:07,040
"Report to this office at once."
739
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,360
They were asked to hand in
these cards
740
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,840
and told to report to the city's
cleansing department,
741
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,000
where they were officially
introduced
742
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,080
to the joys of sweeping
the Newcastle streets -
743
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:24,400
one of the Manpower Services
Commission schemes of the YOP.
744
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,560
The main criticisms of both lads on
the scheme was not the small wage
745
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:36,400
of £20.55 for 40 hours per week
hard graft,
746
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:40,640
usually in atrocious weather
conditions,
747
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,040
but the physical and mental bullying
of the work's gaffers...
748
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,000
..one of whom had the strange habit
749
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:54,680
of sticking brush shanks through the
dungarees of the smaller built lads
750
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,560
and hanging them from the
nearest beam
751
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,000
until he had the curious
satisfaction
752
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,400
of seeing him burst into tears.
753
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:05,560
One lad in particular
754
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,680
was singled out for a stronger dose
of this treatment
755
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:12,000
is now receiving psychiatric help.
756
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,360
The chargehand responsible
for the bullying
757
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,040
has now joined the police force.
758
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,880
Young people already experiencing
the problems of adolescence
759
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,480
are left to cope alone
with a situation
760
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,640
that their educational training
has not prepared them for,
761
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,680
forcing them into a state of
premature redundancy
762
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:41,000
the minute they pass through
the school gates for the last time.
763
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,240
What is becoming clear to
the generation
764
00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:45,640
now approaching maturity
765
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:50,000
is that our society has no solutions
for their problems,
766
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,400
can give no direction
to their lives.
767
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,520
Unemployment and all its associated
deprivations
768
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,520
are not only getting worse,
769
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,760
but new technologies threaten to
make the situation permanent.
770
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,480
Behind empty, pathetic talk
771
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:15,560
of increased leisure opportunities
and freedom from repetitive labour
772
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,480
stands the spectre of enforced
idleness,
773
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,520
wasted resources
774
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:26,280
and the squandering of a whole
generation of human potential.
775
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:34,040
This is vandalism on a grand scale.
776
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:45,000
Hidden in a smokescreen of cynical
doubletalk and pious moralising,
777
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,680
the shape of the future is
nevertheless
778
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,000
clearly discernible.
779
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,400
Cuts in social spending,
780
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,560
including unemployment benefits,
781
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,000
mean that the conditions under which
they must endure
782
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,320
their enforced idleness will
rapidly deteriorate
783
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,440
to become an intolerable burden,
784
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,040
the consequences of which
will be enormous.
785
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,560
No established channels exist
to represent
786
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,600
or even acknowledge the interests
of those involved,
787
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,000
and the failure of the
political parties
788
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,600
and even the trade unions
789
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,440
to contribute anything other
than platitudes
790
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,520
to the situation increases
the alienation
791
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:30,040
of the youth still further.
792
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,960
The intractable nature of
this problem,
793
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,840
intensified as it is by the
Thatcher government's
794
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,800
extreme free market philosophy
795
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,520
opens up a period of bitter
conflict,
796
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,760
as young people grow more
and more frustrated
797
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,560
and refuse to accept the logic
of an economic system
798
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:54,480
which deprives them of a productive
and meaningful future.
799
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:02,320
It must never be forgotten
that there are barbaric
800
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,440
and reactionary forces
in our society who,
801
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,560
while having no intrinsic appeal
to the youth themselves,
802
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,640
will not be slow to make
political capital
803
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,560
from an embittered youth
804
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,640
should the Labour movement fail
to give their search
805
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:20,000
for new social, economic and
political values
806
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,600
a positive and sustained direction.
807
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,000
Tish Murtha.
808
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,760
May, 1980.
809
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,680
ELLA: She was really angry.
810
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:44,840
Really?
811
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,000
Obviously you're her youngest
brother
812
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,200
and she loved you very much,
813
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,840
and she was so angry at what
was happening to you
814
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:57,440
and all of your friends,
do you know?
815
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,000
And the only thing she could do
to try and help you
816
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,640
was to shine a light.
817
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,800
I mean, because it got talked
about in Parliament.
818
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,400
So, did she break you?
819
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:28,280
Good.
820
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,080
It was this whole thing about
documentary photography
821
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:45,360
and it's about getting stuff
published -
822
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,240
as in, is it kind of like art
when it's in galleries?
823
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:49,480
How does it fit in?
824
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,120
You know, so much of it is whether
you do fit in
825
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,400
and whether you hit the...
826
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,360
Is it new? Is it different?
827
00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:58,240
Are you authentic?
828
00:52:58,240 --> 00:53:00,200
Are you gritty enough?
829
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:04,520
And your mother wasn't into that
type of stuff at all.
830
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,600
Do you know what I mean?
831
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:09,760
I think myself and Tish were more
or less seen as novelties, really,
832
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,240
both natives of the northeast.
833
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:15,120
And we were doing it for ourselves,
really.
834
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,000
Had I come from a different
background,
835
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,560
I probably would've had more
chance of breaking into
836
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:21,680
the so-called art world.
837
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,000
If you don't keep above a certain
level with exhibitions
838
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:25,400
and stuff like that,
839
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,000
it's very easy to drop out of it.
840
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,320
For someone like Tish,
who was uncompromising,
841
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,000
she would've found it very difficult
to toe the line.
842
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,000
You've just got to have
the determination
843
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:35,920
to see things through.
844
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,720
A lot of her good work was done
before any involvement
845
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:41,000
with anything like Side Gallery.
846
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,120
I got support from Northern Arts
847
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,800
and I'd had support from the Arts
Council of Great Britain.
848
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,240
I can't remember Tish getting
any support
849
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:50,000
from either of those bodies.
850
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:54,480
TISH: Dear Dennis.
851
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,000
I left the Side Gallery
for a number of reasons,
852
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,920
but mainly because of their peculiar
attitude towards me and my work.
853
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,000
They wanted to manipulate it to fit
their group philosophy
854
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,360
of "working class culture" and
"poverty is beautiful, man".
855
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:11,680
Oh, it's sickening.
856
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,600
On top of that, they wouldn't
provide adequate
857
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,320
darkroom facilities to do the work
they employed me to do.
858
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,760
And the boss' girlfriend was
getting really spiteful
859
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:23,480
and bitchy towards us,
860
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:28,240
damaging expensive photographic work
by bursting into the darkroom,
861
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:31,600
switching lights on accidentally
on purpose.
862
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:37,160
So, as they obviously thought
it was all a big joke
863
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,160
and thought I should just be
grateful
864
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,680
for any situation they offered,
865
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,120
I told them where to stick their job
866
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:48,320
and what an offensive, incestuous
little clique they were.
867
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,000
Anyway, I won my case against them
868
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,720
and got six weeks full dole benefit
backdated.
869
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,720
Financially, things are a bit rough
at the moment,
870
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:07,680
but I'm a damn sight happier
out of their clutches.
871
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,640
This photography world and those
who operate it
872
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,480
really make you sick at times.
873
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,600
ELLA: She moved to London -
I think in '82.
874
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:44,160
Yeah. I think. I think so.
875
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:45,440
Karen -
876
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,000
she was a dancer, wasn't she,
from Canada?
877
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,560
Yeah.
They were living in a shared house
878
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,800
and my mam had got this commission
from The Photographers Gallery
879
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,000
to do this project on Soho
and sex workers.
880
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,280
And Karen was working in Soho,
so they worked together,
881
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:01,720
they collaborated. Yeah.
882
00:56:07,720 --> 00:56:09,560
TISH: Dear Marilyn,
883
00:56:09,560 --> 00:56:13,240
Karen and I had tea with three male
prostitutes last Sunday
884
00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:16,320
in a semidetached house
in Wimbledon,
885
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,840
where we had cucumber sandwiches
with the crusts removed,
886
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:24,480
Earl Grey tea and indulged in
nothing but polite conversation.
887
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,640
It was most bizarre.
888
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:29,600
Anyway, we managed to behave
ourselves
889
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:32,600
and have been invited back.
890
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:33,840
Best wishes.
891
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:35,640
Tish Murtha.
892
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,280
PS. Soho going well.
893
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,160
Was working all night last Tuesday,
894
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,640
but was chased off by a transvestite
with an axe.
895
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,640
We'll try again because I need
the money.
896
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:55,000
I think I met your mum in London,
897
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:56,800
in Camden,
898
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:58,840
through Karen.
899
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,640
And she was featured
in the nightlife,
900
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:03,040
sort of Soho.
901
00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:06,000
So we were sort of just
out of college
902
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,000
and just starting to work
as an actor,
903
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,200
and then these things we sort
of developed
904
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,640
so that we had some
sort of income.
905
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,440
We just clicked. Had a good eye.
906
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:17,280
I knew she could take
a good picture,
907
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:18,640
if you know what I mean.
908
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,000
And then your mum used to come
with us on the circuit,
909
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,040
and she used to meet the girls.
910
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:27,840
The circuit was about a dozen
strip clubs,
911
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:30,000
where all the girls would work.
912
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,440
So it was Mayfair and Soho,
913
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,280
and you'd start about eight,
nine o'clock
914
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:35,920
and finish about two in the morning.
915
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:37,200
Wow.
916
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:41,280
You'd do ten minutes ten times
or 12 times a night.
917
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,160
A lot of them weren't licensed,
918
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,120
but they'd have the punters drinking
non-alcoholic lager,
919
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,440
not knowing that they were drinking
non-alcoholic lager.
920
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,200
And then sometimes you'd go in
and do the act again
921
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:54,560
after you'd done the circuit
922
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,680
and there'd still be the same punter
there with the hostess. God!
923
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,760
But the actual exhibition
went down very well,
924
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:05,000
and a lot of the girls
on the circuit came.
925
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:06,480
It was a celebration
926
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:10,040
and the pictures were astounding.
927
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:14,000
It was like an intimate look
into the other side of Soho.
928
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:19,000
So there were prostitutes,
strippers, punters,
929
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,400
but nothing was posed. No.
930
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:26,000
I think even there was one of Karen
outside the theatre,
931
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:28,280
sort of standing against this light,
932
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:30,000
and it sort of summed up...
933
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,520
It was a rainy night in
the West End, you know?
934
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,280
But people still worked.
935
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,040
MUSIC: Flamenco Sketches
by Miles Davis
936
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:21,000
She was rushing around and...
937
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:24,480
I mean, she was... You can see there
how skinny she was. Mm.
938
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:27,440
Do you know? And she said she'd gone
to the doctors,
939
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:29,160
and she thought she was dying.
940
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,560
And the doctor had recommended
that she drink...
941
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,760
I think it was half a pint
of Guinness every night.
942
01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:35,200
So she was drinking this Guinness
943
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,560
and she wasn't really feeling
any better.
944
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:39,680
She'd gone back to this doctor
and she was saying,
945
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:41,400
"I think I'm dying."
946
01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:42,920
And it turned out she was, like...
947
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:45,000
Oh, pregnant? ..pregnant with me.
948
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,720
Your mum got bigger and bigger
with you
949
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:52,760
and we agreed that I could
photograph your birth
950
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:56,000
and I set up shop in the
labour room...
951
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:57,480
I brought... ..with her and Jimmy.
952
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:00,000
I brought some contact sheets
that you made... Oh, right.
953
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:01,840
..to have a look at.
954
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:03,880
They're so beautiful.
955
01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:07,160
I can see why she wanted you
to take them.
956
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:09,440
I mean, this...
957
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:12,480
That's, like... You emerging.
958
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,560
..wow.
With your little dark hair.
959
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,320
For birth pictures -
they're significant,
960
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,280
but they're not very pretty.
961
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:21,440
She loved them.
962
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:23,000
I think my absolute favourite...
963
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:25,040
..and it's, like, where...
Oh, yes.
964
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:26,280
..she's waiting to meet me.
965
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,760
And I just think the lighting...
The lighting was terrific.
966
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:32,680
She was so proud of them.
Well, it was a lovely moment
967
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:35,720
and it was good that your dad
came along
968
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:38,720
because Jimmy holding Tish,
going ooh!
969
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:42,120
I'm glad that, you know,
she had some support.
970
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:43,360
I'm glad you were there.
971
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,720
All the time your mum was pregnant,
972
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:48,680
she knew she was going
to have a boy.
973
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:51,000
You were going to be called Nimrod.
974
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,760
Why?! Well, Nimrod Variations.
975
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:55,000
Elgar, you know?
976
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:58,480
Her favourite classical musician.
977
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:02,040
But then you came out and you were
a little girl.
978
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,360
LAUGHTER
979
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:16,760
TISH: It's nine o'clock.
980
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,720
It's very late for a baby girl
to be awake.
981
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:23,600
She should settle down now,
982
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:27,040
or she'll never wake up for Ramona
and Dennis.
983
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:30,160
Goodnight, dear Ella.
984
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,160
I give you my heart.
985
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:37,000
And then, once you were born,
986
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:42,000
you more or less became a sort of
fixture in our social life.
987
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:45,080
And it was Tish, and then Tish
and Ella.
988
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:47,640
And Tish and Ella was almost
one word. Yeah.
989
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:49,560
Tish and Ella against the world.
990
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,000
And I just then became your
fairy godfather.
991
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:54,560
I didn't want to be your godfather
992
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:56,680
because I'm not particularly
religious,
993
01:02:56,680 --> 01:03:00,680
so that's why I decided to be
your fairy godfather.
994
01:03:00,680 --> 01:03:02,800
And you were in and out of
the darkroom with her
995
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:04,880
because I can remember,
when you were tiny,
996
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,040
you used to watch the photos and I
used to watch her develop stuff.
997
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:09,960
It was magical, wasn't it? Yeah.
998
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:12,880
I saw a statistic recently.
999
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:18,120
80% of women are in education
about photography,
1000
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:20,600
but then, actually working in it,
1001
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:23,000
it's only something like 15%.
1002
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:27,000
And it's just interesting
to try and understand
1003
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,520
why so many women can't make...
1004
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,720
I mean, it's a very
male-dominated...
1005
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:36,000
Yeah. Well, I think...
1006
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,200
I know I could have and I was
capable of doing it,
1007
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,240
but I couldn't with having a child
1008
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,000
because I couldn't work out
how to look after...
1009
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:47,160
You know, I couldn't afford
childminders.
1010
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:49,320
It just seems, though,
like it's always women.
1011
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:51,680
It's always women who have to
sacrifice their careers.
1012
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:53,720
I feel...
1013
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:56,800
The time in my mam's life, you know,
that she'd moved to London,
1014
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,560
she was having that exhibition
in The Photographers Gallery,
1015
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:01,760
and she was on the cusp of huge
things.
1016
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,000
And obviously I wasn't planned,
1017
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,000
and I arrived!
1018
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:09,760
And I've always felt really
responsible, you know?
1019
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:11,600
Because it's difficult. You can't...
1020
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:13,640
With a kid in tow, when you're
a single mam...
1021
01:04:13,640 --> 01:04:20,000
No, but...the other side is that
Tish was given offers,
1022
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,280
opportunities. I mean, everyone
recognised her talent.
1023
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:26,760
I mean, I got her a job teaching -
lasted half a day.
1024
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:29,040
LAUGHTER
1025
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:29,040
Oh, God!
1026
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:32,160
She wouldn't... She couldn't
compromise.
1027
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:34,560
She had to be a photographer.
1028
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:38,120
You know, like, the Side often tried
to sort of pull her in,
1029
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:41,320
but she was really against them
and feeling they were...
1030
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:44,280
She was always suspicious
that people were,
1031
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,160
you know, using her. Yeah.
1032
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,600
She had been treated badly
by certain people. Yeah.
1033
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:51,440
And I think it does make it...
1034
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:53,880
It makes things difficult, you know?
1035
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,520
She was suspicious
and I just do feel...
1036
01:04:57,600 --> 01:04:59,000
..very responsible.
1037
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:01,000
I mean, I didn't ask to be born,
1038
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:03,880
but I think I must have changed
her life irreversibly.
1039
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:06,320
You were the best thing she
could've had. Do you think?
1040
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:08,320
Yeah. Was she happy?
1041
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:10,840
She loved you so much.
1042
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:13,040
You were... You were the bee's
knees.
1043
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:15,000
You could do everything.
1044
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:17,720
You were so musical. Yeah.
1045
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:19,840
She'd drown you with jazz.
1046
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:22,000
Well, I'm named after Ella
Fitzgerald, aren't I?
1047
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:23,720
Do you know? Like, it's...
1048
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:26,520
She made me feel like the
most special person.
1049
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:28,560
Oh, yeah. No, you were.
1050
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:30,040
You were magic.
1051
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:35,040
RECORDING OF ELLA: So, after play,
I'm just gonna say who this is.
1052
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:36,320
It is Ella Murtha.
1053
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,400
But, first,
I'm going sing Twinkle Twinkle -
1054
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:41,920
that's my favourite song.
1055
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:47,120
And I was the star in the
Christmas play, and I had to sing
1056
01:05:47,120 --> 01:05:48,720
Twinkle Twinkle,
1057
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:50,520
so I hope you enjoy it.
1058
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:53,400
And I am a very good singer,
my mummy says.
1059
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:55,080
And here it is...
1060
01:05:55,080 --> 01:06:00,880
SINGS ERNESTLY:
# Twinkle, twinkle little star
1061
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:07,240
# How I wonder what you are
1062
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:15,600
# Up above the world so high
1063
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:21,320
# Like a diamond in the sky
1064
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:27,920
# Twinkle, twinkle little star
1065
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:37,360
# How I wonder what you are. #
1066
01:06:40,680 --> 01:06:44,040
She suddenly took you back up north.
1067
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:46,120
I think she was fed up of -
1068
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:48,480
it sounds silly - of being poor.
1069
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,040
She used to tell me
she'd go down to Camden Market
1070
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:54,320
at the end of the day and pick up
vegetables off the floor and things.
1071
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:59,600
We went back to Elswick
and she was taking photos again.
1072
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:01,240
She was doing a whole series -
1073
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,160
it was Elswick Revisited.
1074
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:07,120
The area had changed drastically
from the youth unemployment pictures
1075
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:08,960
just, you know,
a mere ten years before.
1076
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:11,240
Well, not even ten years before.
1077
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,920
And, for a time,
I think we were happy.
1078
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:16,320
I mean, I don't know...
1079
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,560
I don't know whether
Tish was ever really happy.
1080
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:22,440
Well, she was very driven as well
and photography was her life.
1081
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:27,360
But I think every so often someone
would sort of give her stuff,
1082
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:29,840
or money, or things came her way.
1083
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:37,000
She was a good friend and she was
very good to me at times, you know,
1084
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,480
because you go
through miserable times
1085
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:43,440
and she'd sort of spark me up.
1086
01:07:43,440 --> 01:07:45,600
We had some really good times.
1087
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:53,280
TISH: Hello, David.
1088
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:58,960
I have a Northern Arts Award
for 2,500 quid, paid in instalments,
1089
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:03,160
which is basically to explore racial
tension in this area.
1090
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:07,080
It's a very tough one to crack,
this.
1091
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:12,520
But I'm taking snaps again,
which is good.
1092
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:39,880
That's another good one.
I don't know...
1093
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:41,720
Oh, this is interesting!
1094
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,120
This boy here, who's got his back
to us... Yeah.
1095
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,400
..he contacted me via Instagram
1096
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:50,680
and he said,
"Oh, I think I met your mam in sort
1097
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,600
"of like the late '80s
in Elswick Park.
1098
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:57,040
"And she came over and she started
asking us about our views
1099
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:58,560
"and why we felt like that."
1100
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:02,360
And he said she was the first adult
who had actually listened to him
1101
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:03,840
and wanted to...
1102
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:07,280
..know how he felt.
1103
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:11,920
And he said that she talked to them
about removing the emotion
1104
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:14,640
from a subject and looking
at it from other point of views,
1105
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:19,160
and he said it changed his life
and he took that into his life.
1106
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,800
Was she taking pictures
right at the end?
1107
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:26,840
The last pictures she was taking
will have been these.
1108
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:28,880
This is when she was in
Middlesbrough,
1109
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:32,840
so she spent a lot of time
at Linthorpe Cemetery
1110
01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:35,760
and it's quite bizarre,
looking at all these pictures,
1111
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:38,320
considering
what was just around the corner.
1112
01:09:38,320 --> 01:09:41,760
When she found it, she was at peace.
It was very serene.
1113
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,760
"Here is your angel
in her summer finery."
1114
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:46,440
I always
like the fact that she wrote
1115
01:09:46,440 --> 01:09:49,360
something on the back of pictures,
like a little postcard.
1116
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:52,520
When I see her handwriting,
like, I can imagine her voice.
1117
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:55,240
Yeah. I feel like she's here,
do you know, like...?
1118
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,640
It's unusual to see colour, isn't
it? Yeah!
1119
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:00,240
But she, she had to do
colour in the later days, though,
1120
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:02,960
because, after the credit crunch
and stuff, she couldn't get hold
1121
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:04,560
of any of the chemicals, so she...
1122
01:10:04,560 --> 01:10:06,720
She couldn't get black and white
film either. No, no.
1123
01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,840
So... She always had trouble
getting black and white film.
1124
01:10:12,920 --> 01:10:16,320
TISH: Central Middlesbrough is
a culturally diverse community,
1125
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,840
which has been portrayed unfairly
to my eyes
1126
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:23,560
as an area of crime,
prostitution and drugs.
1127
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:29,640
A community which is at ease
with itself in so many ways
1128
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,840
is currently threatened
by redevelopment plans,
1129
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:35,760
implementation of which is already
seeing the beginnings
1130
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:37,680
of the demolition process.
1131
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:43,120
Originally built to house
the workers
1132
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:46,080
from the local steel industry
in the late 19th century,
1133
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,760
as well as the descendants
of these families,
1134
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:54,080
the community includes Asian,
African, Arab, Chinese, Turkish
1135
01:10:54,080 --> 01:10:56,480
and Eastern European populations.
1136
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:00,280
I would like to build
a celebration of the community.
1137
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:08,280
Initial work has explored the local
Mela in the restored Albert Park...
1138
01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:12,240
..the transformation of the narrow
back yards into flowering gardens.
1139
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:15,000
Young mothers...
1140
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:20,000
..life on the streets and
in some of the meeting points.
1141
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:25,560
My approach is informal, generating
an understanding of what I'm doing
1142
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:29,760
by giving copies of my photographs
to the people with whom I'm working.
1143
01:11:31,080 --> 01:11:35,200
I'm only seeking funding to support
the cost of materials and equipment
1144
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:39,520
that would both enable this process
and produce exhibition prints
1145
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:43,840
through which a full celebration
of the community can be achieved.
1146
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:48,720
Childcare responsibilities have made
the pursuit
1147
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:52,080
of my documentary practice difficult
over recent years.
1148
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:56,720
My work depends on investment
of time, building of relationships
1149
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:59,440
of trust that allow
access to the different parts
1150
01:11:59,440 --> 01:12:02,400
of the community
and to individual lives.
1151
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:07,600
Through the development
of this project, I will hopefully
1152
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:11,560
generate renewed interest in my work
as a documentary photographer.
1153
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:17,080
Whatever happens to the community
of central Middlesbrough, the work
1154
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:21,240
will stand as a celebratory
record of a diverse community
1155
01:12:21,240 --> 01:12:24,800
which has found ways of living
together in relative harmony.
1156
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:30,440
Through the validation of these
different lives, this community
1157
01:12:30,440 --> 01:12:34,520
and possibly other marginalised
communities, may feel empowered
1158
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:38,720
to challenge decision-making
processes that all too often
1159
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:40,120
ignore their views.
1160
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:56,560
The impact was what you see
there, that is the impact.
1161
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:58,560
That's the evidence,
that's all you want.
1162
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:00,880
If it's good enough
for us to live like that,
1163
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:03,280
then that was
the price worth paying.
1164
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,320
Mind you, we haven't come very far.
1165
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:07,160
We've been unfortunate to have
1166
01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:09,880
the wrong people
to look after our interests.
1167
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:12,000
They've failed again.
1168
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:14,240
We always use money as a weapon.
1169
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:18,400
But there's a lot of people
who actually control
1170
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:23,600
that particular funding, maybe
send it in the wrong directions.
1171
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:55,640
Me mam's absolute favourite...
1172
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:58,280
It is!
1173
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:01,080
That's you!
1174
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:03,440
Yeah.
1175
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:07,600
Yous look tight.
1176
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:23,920
Are you pleased that she took them?
1177
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:40,560
Yous just never stood a chance,
did you? None of yous.
1178
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:45,880
I mean, no wonder me mam was angry.
1179
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:03,760
How had older Tish changed from the
young Tish that yous met in Elswick?
1180
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:05,880
We'd missed each other for quite
a few years -
1181
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:09,560
would it be 20 or 30 -
I don't know, since she came out?
1182
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:12,080
Probably the last time was when you
were a little one
1183
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:13,720
and she came out to see us. Yeah.
1184
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:17,320
In terms of like her personality,
had she changed?
1185
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:21,720
Not really. She was...
Maybe she hadn't got the feistiness
1186
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:23,960
that she had when she was younger.
1187
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:25,600
No, she had that edge
when she was young
1188
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:26,720
and it was, her, I think...
1189
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:28,720
She'd had like a fire in her belly,
didn't she?
1190
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:31,360
That's right. I think it had been
extinguished, I think,
1191
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:34,080
by life and just surviving.
1192
01:15:36,440 --> 01:15:40,360
After Middlesbrough, she moved
to Elmhurst, and then from there
1193
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:42,320
she was close to me in Teesside.
1194
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:46,600
But then the camera,
there was something wrong with it
1195
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,720
and it was fogging up. There was
something wrong with the back.
1196
01:15:49,720 --> 01:15:51,920
Well, it had had a life.
1197
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:53,400
LAUGHTER
1198
01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:53,400
I mean...
1199
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:55,360
Yeah. I mean, extraordinary.
1200
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:58,520
She battered the hell out of it
for God only knows how long.
1201
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,520
She got her money's worth out of
it, though. Oh, she certainly did.
1202
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:02,960
They were great cameras, though.
1203
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:05,200
I mean, she should got
that because of Don McCullin.
1204
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:08,320
Don McCullin used to
cart them into battlefields
1205
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:10,080
and all kinds of things.
1206
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:16,920
TISH: Happy Christmas,
Eileen and Ali.
1207
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:19,680
Hope 2010 is a
great year for you all.
1208
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:23,640
Thought you might like
a copy of Photoworks.
1209
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:27,720
The article by David
Maller is nauseating claptrap,
1210
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:30,680
but I like what the editor Gordon
did with me photographs.
1211
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:33,840
Thank you for the shoes.
1212
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:35,720
They should fit OK.
1213
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:39,200
My situation at the moment
is a bit rough.
1214
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:41,600
One week I eat, next week I don't.
1215
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:47,680
I am moving, only four streets away,
but it overlooks the park.
1216
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:51,920
Not by any means perfect, but it'll
do until the boat comes in.
1217
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:55,000
See you anon.
1218
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:56,200
Love, Tish.
1219
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:01,400
This new welfare state...
1220
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:05,520
..must encourage work,
not dependency.
1221
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:08,560
We are giving young people
1222
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:11,400
and the long-term unemployed
the opportunity.
1223
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:14,880
A £3.5 billion investment programme.
1224
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,680
We are adding today the option
of self-employment as part
1225
01:17:18,680 --> 01:17:20,680
of the New Deal,
1226
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:24,520
but I think it right and fair
that they have to take
1227
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:26,600
one of the options on offer.
1228
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:31,520
We want single mothers with school
age children
1229
01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:34,480
at least to visit a Jobcentre,
not just stay at home
1230
01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:38,880
waiting for the benefit cheque every
week until the children are 16.
1231
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:43,760
I remember the dole were giving her
a hard time at one point.
1232
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:45,960
They wanted her to work in a factory
or something,
1233
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:49,200
and she just wasn't having it
and I was sort of supporting her
1234
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:51,320
and saying, "No, stand up for
yourself."
1235
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:53,840
It was the time...
Do you remember New Deal?
1236
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:55,360
Oh, God, yeah. All of that.
1237
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:57,240
She did actually get sent and...
1238
01:17:57,240 --> 01:17:59,520
She was sent to a meat-processing
place.
1239
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:02,120
But she was so tired because
they were doing night shifts,
1240
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:04,200
they used to come pick her up
in this bus thing,
1241
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:05,960
and she was hallucinating.
1242
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:07,680
She was just so tired.
1243
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:10,440
And the smell, because, I mean,
she was a vegetarian and... I know.
1244
01:18:10,440 --> 01:18:11,560
Like, it was...
1245
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:15,360
She had so much
talent and she just couldn't make
1246
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:16,680
a living from photography.
1247
01:18:16,680 --> 01:18:18,440
No. She just couldn't do it.
1248
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:27,120
TISH: Patricia Anne Murtha, CV.
1249
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:32,560
I'm an honest, reliable
and trustworthy person
1250
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:35,280
with the ability to work on own
initiatives
1251
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:37,400
or as an effective team member.
1252
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:41,400
Having previously
completed college training
1253
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:43,320
in documentary photography,
1254
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:47,400
I am now seeking a position
where I am able to fully utilise
1255
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:49,640
all of my skills and knowledge.
1256
01:18:51,560 --> 01:18:54,880
Thriving on new challenges
and responsibility...
1257
01:18:55,840 --> 01:18:58,760
..I'm versatile and adaptable
1258
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:03,160
and can successfully transfer
my existing skills and knowledge
1259
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:04,720
to new situations.
1260
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:09,440
Given the opportunity...
1261
01:19:11,120 --> 01:19:13,520
..I'm confident that I will prove
to be an asset
1262
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:15,200
to any future employer.
1263
01:19:17,960 --> 01:19:20,160
During my spare time
1264
01:19:20,160 --> 01:19:22,200
I enjoy walking to keep fit.
1265
01:19:23,480 --> 01:19:27,680
To relax, I listen to music
and read a variety of books.
1266
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:33,760
I like gardening
and grow my own fruit and veg.
1267
01:19:36,520 --> 01:19:38,600
I'm also a keen photographer...
1268
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:42,840
..and develop my own photos.
1269
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:50,360
January 14th, 2013.
1270
01:19:51,480 --> 01:19:54,760
Got an email number as requested
by the Jobcentre.
1271
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:58,560
Made inquiries at Aldi Chichester
for position of store assistant.
1272
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:02,880
Have no retail experience,
so response not very positive.
1273
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:07,000
January 22nd, sent CV and letter
to the Punjab Kitchen Ltd,
1274
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:08,320
Elden Street.
1275
01:20:08,320 --> 01:20:12,000
February 3rd, spoke
to Mandy about waiting staff.
1276
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,440
OVERLAPPING: February 8th,
checked the Universal Job site.
1277
01:20:15,440 --> 01:20:17,760
February 13th,
1278
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:20,080
also wrote to Beebe's Coffee Shop...
1279
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:23,520
OVERLAPPING: February 14th, sent
CV to Sodexo... February 16th...
1280
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:29,040
..visited various retail outlets at
the Gateshead Retail Centre to make
1281
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:30,920
inquiries about vacancies.
1282
01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:57,720
She was living, like, hand-to-mouth.
1283
01:20:57,720 --> 01:20:59,160
Like, I helped her where I could,
1284
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:01,320
but I was on maternity leave.
Of course you were.
1285
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:04,880
Do you know? She spent her
final few weeks traipsing around,
1286
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:07,560
trying to get jobs in a kitchen.
1287
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:09,760
She was terrified to turn
the heating on.
1288
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:11,760
And DO you know, the worst thing
of all?
1289
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:13,760
Like it was, did she heat or did she
eat?
1290
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:17,880
Yes. And, when she died,
I ended up getting a cheque for £100
1291
01:21:17,880 --> 01:21:21,600
because she'd been religiously
putting this £20... Yeah.
1292
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:24,160
..on, but terrified
to have the heating on
1293
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:25,680
and she was in credit.
1294
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:29,200
You know, she could have had
the heating on, but she felt
1295
01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:34,800
so worthless and like she
didn't deserve to have a warm house.
1296
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:36,560
And it's just like... Oh, Ella!
1297
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:39,560
But, you know, when she was in that
coma, right...?
1298
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:41,400
I remember.
1299
01:21:41,400 --> 01:21:43,320
I rang them because...
1300
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:46,720
SHE EXHALES
1301
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:46,720
Just take a breath.
1302
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:56,560
..when I should have been looking
after her and worried about her,
1303
01:21:56,560 --> 01:21:59,600
I was so stressed out that she was
going to get sanctioned
1304
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:02,200
while she was in the hospital
and she was going to lose her house.
1305
01:22:02,200 --> 01:22:03,520
When she's in a coma? Yeah.
1306
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,960
So I rang them because I couldn't
get any sense out of her.
1307
01:22:06,960 --> 01:22:08,920
I said, "Did you sign on on Friday?"
1308
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:10,280
And she, she just...
1309
01:22:10,280 --> 01:22:11,520
She'd...
1310
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:13,760
She just wasn't making any
sense at all,
1311
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:17,240
which I now know is, do you know,
what was going on in her brain.
1312
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:19,440
And so I rang them and I said,
1313
01:22:19,440 --> 01:22:24,200
"Look, me mam, she's had a brain
haemorrhage, she's in a coma.
1314
01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:27,280
"I don't know whether she came and
signed on on Friday, but obviously
1315
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:28,680
"please don't sanction her."
1316
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:31,040
And they just refused to talk to me.
1317
01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:33,040
They refused to tell me
if she'd been. Really?
1318
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:34,960
They said, "It's against data
protection.
1319
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:37,240
"We cannot discuss that with you."
1320
01:22:37,240 --> 01:22:40,120
She was just a number.
We're all just numbers to them.
1321
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:43,320
But, you know,
like, she was so special.
1322
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:45,080
She was... She was so talented...
1323
01:22:45,080 --> 01:22:47,080
She was. ..and they didn't care.
1324
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:52,040
I just like to come here because
it feels like going full circle.
1325
01:22:52,040 --> 01:22:53,760
Yeah. You know, she was born here.
1326
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:55,160
Yeah, she was.
1327
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:58,560
Do you know? Like, her happy
childhood memories are here.
1328
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:02,000
We had happy times here,
on this bench!
1329
01:23:02,000 --> 01:23:03,680
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
It had to be this one.
1330
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:05,080
It had to be this one.
1331
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:22,640
Tish's work,
1332
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:25,480
I remember when I first looked
at it, remember the kind of thrill
1333
01:23:25,480 --> 01:23:29,520
of what photography was
and what it could do.
1334
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:33,680
They clearly weren't those sort
of explorer pictures.
1335
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:37,920
You know, you feel when someone's
exploring a culture, when someone's
1336
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:41,320
exploring working class culture
and they've just stepped in
1337
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:43,760
and they're going to step out,
back to wherever, later.
1338
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:46,520
Just parachute in, parachute back
out. Parachute back out.
1339
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:49,280
And they've got their pictures
of people, kids looking slightly
1340
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,240
grubby and stuff like this.
This felt like my childhood.
1341
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:54,560
And it became clear when
I met your mum, when I learned
1342
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:57,520
more about the work and talked
to her more about the work,
1343
01:23:57,520 --> 01:23:59,040
that it was because that was her,
1344
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:03,800
and she'd made something which was
so clear and so honest and so raw.
1345
01:24:05,640 --> 01:24:08,880
She was allowed to be invisible
in a way that someone
1346
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:12,360
from the outside wouldn't be
because that was her life.
1347
01:24:12,360 --> 01:24:16,400
Now your mum's work is central
to people's thinking about...
1348
01:24:17,680 --> 01:24:19,600
..documentary photography
from that period.
1349
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:21,920
It's not peripheral any more
and that's...
1350
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:23,200
That's something, innit?
1351
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:27,760
So, you know you've been helping me
with the Clary and the Tate.
1352
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:30,240
Do you know how you set
up your darkroom? Yes.
1353
01:24:30,240 --> 01:24:32,600
I was going to ask whether you would
like to print them.
1354
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:33,680
Oh, God, I'd love to.
1355
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:36,600
I would love you to print
them for the Tate collection.
1356
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:39,000
That's a really nice thing. Erm...
1357
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:41,360
Yeah. God, yeah.
1358
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:44,880
MUSIC: Vissi d'arte, Tosca
by Puccini
1359
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:16,560
To actually say that Tate Britain
have acquired me mam's work
1360
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:19,720
for their permanent collection,
I mean, the whole thought of that
1361
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:21,840
is just...
1362
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:23,760
It's quite overwhelming, really.
1363
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:29,000
Think she'd have loved
to have seen her work on the wall
1364
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:33,320
and, do you know, be recognised
for just how talented she was.
1365
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:38,560
A lot of people say to me, like,
"That could have been me.
1366
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:41,680
"That could have been my brother.
That could have been us."
1367
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:45,800
Pictures of real people,
real stories, real lives
1368
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:47,520
and for it to be recognised
1369
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:51,240
because, you know, me mam's work
was brilliant
1370
01:25:51,240 --> 01:25:55,120
and I mean, I'm biased, but for
other people to recognise that
1371
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:58,000
and for Tate to recognise that...
1372
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:00,720
..what more could you want?
1373
01:26:06,200 --> 01:26:08,160
MUSIC: Vissi d'arte, Tosca
by Puccini
178052
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.