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1
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So, here we are in a train yard
in Los Angeles.
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We got our whole cast here,
and we're having a good time.
3
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We're trying to draw
from, uh, all over from Star Wars.
4
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It's really helpful for authenticity.
5
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And the enthusiasm is infectious.
6
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I'm a fan since I was little.
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And now I'm surrounded by other fans, too.
8
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And it's been a real treat.
9
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There's a whole generation,
that was the age I was
10
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when I saw the original trilogy
that were that age...
11
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- Sure, for the prequels.
- When they saw the prequels.
12
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And you were around for the prequels.
You were doing it...
13
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- I was.
- That was super cutting-edge stuff,
14
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just like the motion control stuff
was cutting-edge then.
15
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Now it feels like that's nostalgic,
in a way,
16
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- compared to what we're able to do now.
- Yeah.
17
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You had to reengage with Star Wars
18
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after people hadn't seen it for
how long since the original trilogy?
19
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Return of the Jedi was, what, 1983?
20
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And then we're '99.
21
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I was in high school.
22
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I was an usher at the RKO Keith's
in Flushing when that movie was playing.
23
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I went from being a kid for the first one,
24
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by the last one I was
with the Ewoks and everything,
25
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I was sort of, uh,
It was no longer my main focus, you know?
26
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I sort of moved on to the Mad Max movies
27
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and The Road Warrior, that kind of stuff.
28
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So, what was it like to...
29
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Did you ever talk about these
things while working on that?
30
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What was Star Wars?
31
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Or was it always George's vision,
and he knew exactly what he wanted to do?
32
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I was very inspired to enter the industry
because of Star Wars.
33
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In fact, I was 14
when Star Wars came out
34
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and started to think a little bit
about what am I gonna do with my career?
35
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And, um, there was mechanical engineering
or maybe architecture and...
36
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But then Star Wars came out,
37
00:02:34,571 --> 00:02:39,743
and suddenly there was all this exciting
new stuff happening in entertainment.
38
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And it was really energizing
and inspiring.
39
00:02:43,413 --> 00:02:47,251
And that really pushed me over the edge
to want to go into the industry.
40
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And so...
41
00:02:50,003 --> 00:02:56,760
Then, all the steps that I took that
landed me at ILM were with the hope that,
42
00:02:56,844 --> 00:03:01,682
"I want to work on something as big and
ambitious as a Star Wars movie someday."
43
00:03:01,765 --> 00:03:05,227
And I just happened to be
in the right place at the right time
44
00:03:05,310 --> 00:03:08,939
when George was starting to ramp up
new Star Wars films.
45
00:03:09,565 --> 00:03:11,859
- Were you at ILM at the time?
- Yeah.
46
00:03:11,942 --> 00:03:15,529
You were already there, and then,
"Everybody, we're gonna make Star Wars"?
47
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That's kinda what happened?
48
00:03:17,990 --> 00:03:19,658
Yes, in a way and...
49
00:03:19,741 --> 00:03:22,119
Everybody who was working
at ILM loved Star Wars,
50
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not thinking you're gonna do it again
and George enters and says,
51
00:03:24,997 --> 00:03:27,416
"We'll make three more Star Wars movies."
52
00:03:27,499 --> 00:03:30,669
We had company meetings
annually and, uh...
53
00:03:30,752 --> 00:03:33,922
George would address everybody
and take questions,
54
00:03:34,006 --> 00:03:36,592
and inevitably,
every year someone would ask...
55
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"What about Star Wars?"
56
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"Are you gonna do
more Star Wars movies?"
57
00:03:40,470 --> 00:03:41,471
And...
58
00:03:42,139 --> 00:03:45,225
The first few years I was there,
he was always noncommittal,
59
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"Yeah, I don't know. Maybe someday."
60
00:03:47,394 --> 00:03:51,356
And then I remember that one year,
somebody asked that same question,
61
00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,400
and he went, "Hmm, yeah, maybe."
62
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Well, I can speak to that,
'cause I was around
63
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with the movies that were in between,
which is the Indiana Jones movies.
64
00:04:01,325 --> 00:04:06,288
And I don't think he ever stopped thinking
about whether he would do more Star Wars,
65
00:04:06,371 --> 00:04:11,460
and I think what happened during Indy was
that he was not on the floor directing.
66
00:04:11,543 --> 00:04:15,297
He was not necessarily, you know,
"in it" making...
67
00:04:15,380 --> 00:04:17,883
- Which was Steven.
- 'Cause it's primarily Steven.
68
00:04:17,966 --> 00:04:19,510
- He was producing.
- Exactly.
69
00:04:19,593 --> 00:04:25,057
I think with anybody like George,
and anyone who's a filmmaker,
70
00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:28,352
they get antsy after a while
71
00:04:28,435 --> 00:04:33,524
at not being able to be on that floor
telling stories, making movies.
72
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And his love of pushing the technology,
73
00:04:36,193 --> 00:04:39,029
obviously, we were doing
a certain amount of that
74
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with each of the Indiana Jones movies.
75
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But it wasn't like Star Wars.
76
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And I think that each time
we would push the technology
77
00:04:49,289 --> 00:04:51,041
in making those movies,
78
00:04:51,124 --> 00:04:55,629
he got the bug to start thinking about
what that might mean for Star Wars.
79
00:04:58,382 --> 00:05:01,009
I think Star Wars
is such a part of people's lives,
80
00:05:01,093 --> 00:05:04,179
and it's something they see now
on a regular basis
81
00:05:04,263 --> 00:05:07,391
that when you say
"George Lucas, he created it,"
82
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I don't think people give enough
full value to what that means.
83
00:05:11,144 --> 00:05:16,275
I like to think I do, but I work with him,
so I've seen him create it.
84
00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:21,321
I've seen the person that comes up
with the lines and the dialogue
85
00:05:21,405 --> 00:05:24,533
and understands
Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker
86
00:05:24,616 --> 00:05:25,909
in a very deep level,
87
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because those characters
are a part of him.
88
00:05:29,079 --> 00:05:32,833
And for my part, joining Lucasfilm,
I always respected that.
89
00:05:32,916 --> 00:05:35,627
I never felt that Star Wars
is something that was mine.
90
00:05:35,711 --> 00:05:38,547
I felt privileged
to be a part of telling the story.
91
00:05:38,630 --> 00:05:41,466
I felt grateful that I got to do it
with George
92
00:05:41,550 --> 00:05:43,510
and that I would write stories
93
00:05:43,594 --> 00:05:45,762
and try and tell stories,
and he would say,
94
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"Okay, well, that's not what I meant,"
or "that's not how that works."
95
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and he would course-correct it,
because he should. It's his story.
96
00:05:52,644 --> 00:05:57,941
He created the universe,
the Millennium Falcon, Chewbacca, Yoda.
97
00:05:58,025 --> 00:06:01,320
I mean, all these things, Darth Vader...
all came out of his brain,
98
00:06:01,403 --> 00:06:05,741
and you just need to tap into that
to stay true to kind of what this is
99
00:06:06,408 --> 00:06:07,659
and do what George did,
100
00:06:07,743 --> 00:06:10,495
which is constantly find new ways
to tell these stories.
101
00:06:11,788 --> 00:06:14,166
I've always been in awe
102
00:06:15,375 --> 00:06:17,503
of Star Wars and the magic of that.
103
00:06:17,586 --> 00:06:21,173
What George has always done
is bring collaborators in
104
00:06:21,256 --> 00:06:23,342
and see where you might go or take this.
105
00:06:24,426 --> 00:06:27,513
He really understood that the characters
106
00:06:27,596 --> 00:06:32,142
are meant to expand in ways
that George might not even predict.
107
00:06:32,226 --> 00:06:34,811
And he's always been
inclusive in that way.
108
00:06:34,895 --> 00:06:37,898
He's always wanted
to really push the story
109
00:06:37,981 --> 00:06:41,276
in directions that includes
other storytellers.
110
00:06:43,862 --> 00:06:45,948
That's good.
111
00:06:46,448 --> 00:06:52,996
I really love Star Wars and obsessed
over it in many different ways.
112
00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:58,877
And what was always cool about Star Wars
was that it was a galaxy,
113
00:06:58,961 --> 00:07:01,213
and therefore as a kid growing up,
114
00:07:01,296 --> 00:07:04,258
I always felt that there were stories
within that galaxy
115
00:07:04,341 --> 00:07:07,469
that I could be a part of
and was a part of telling,
116
00:07:07,553 --> 00:07:09,596
even if it was just me and my friends,
117
00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,516
or me by myself with my action figures.
118
00:07:12,599 --> 00:07:14,643
Okay, laugh.
119
00:07:14,726 --> 00:07:15,978
And flames!
120
00:07:16,061 --> 00:07:19,273
Whoa. Easy, easy.
121
00:07:19,356 --> 00:07:22,860
It's fascinating
to experience that as a child.
122
00:07:22,943 --> 00:07:26,780
You know, to have your imagination
so enriched by these stories.
123
00:07:27,239 --> 00:07:30,325
There are such universal themes
in the Star Wars stories,
124
00:07:30,409 --> 00:07:35,539
and ironically, I think people
feel that despite being fantasy,
125
00:07:35,622 --> 00:07:38,208
it reflects the world we actually live in,
126
00:07:38,292 --> 00:07:41,712
in its inclusiveness
and diversity and conflict.
127
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Wars not make one great.
128
00:07:44,381 --> 00:07:45,716
The spirit of Star Wars,
129
00:07:45,799 --> 00:07:49,678
it's always been about
these young dreamers and hot rods
130
00:07:49,761 --> 00:07:52,097
and everything else, and so...
131
00:07:52,181 --> 00:07:56,393
What I feel is so great about the team
that's come together
132
00:07:56,476 --> 00:07:59,521
is that everyone is coming
with their own experiences
133
00:07:59,605 --> 00:08:03,567
to a universe and a galaxy
that can support it.
134
00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:05,777
And I think Jon wants to see that,
135
00:08:05,861 --> 00:08:09,323
and everyone's gonna have
their own different point of view
136
00:08:09,406 --> 00:08:11,533
of what makes Star Wars special to them.
137
00:08:11,617 --> 00:08:15,787
But I think that's exactly
why this show is so exciting,
138
00:08:15,871 --> 00:08:17,789
because it can hold all of that,
139
00:08:17,873 --> 00:08:20,375
because the galaxy
has always been that big.
140
00:08:32,054 --> 00:08:34,097
Just like the good old days.
141
00:08:34,181 --> 00:08:36,266
Yeah, just like the good old days.
142
00:08:40,354 --> 00:08:44,483
Let's talk about George and all of...
Because I don't think people understand...
143
00:08:44,566 --> 00:08:46,985
Let's rattle off all the breakthroughs...
144
00:08:47,444 --> 00:08:49,154
- Jeez.
- That he had, starting...
145
00:08:49,238 --> 00:08:51,865
- I'll start...
- We'll go around. Let's do a party game.
146
00:08:51,949 --> 00:08:52,950
Everybody say one.
147
00:08:53,033 --> 00:08:56,453
When I came in the company,
I was astounded to find out
148
00:08:56,537 --> 00:08:59,915
that there were over 126 patents
149
00:08:59,998 --> 00:09:03,627
literally new technology
that he had created.
150
00:09:04,169 --> 00:09:05,629
- Astounding.
- Like Edison Lab.
151
00:09:05,712 --> 00:09:09,925
So, let's start. Here, I'll do one.
First CG character.
152
00:09:10,008 --> 00:09:13,136
- EditDroid.
- EditDroid was turned into Avid.
153
00:09:13,220 --> 00:09:14,596
Motion control.
154
00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:16,223
For the miniatures at Kerner?
155
00:09:16,306 --> 00:09:20,561
Yeah. Well, first motion control system
on Star Wars, first film.
156
00:09:20,644 --> 00:09:22,938
A good question that
you know the answer to is,
157
00:09:23,021 --> 00:09:26,316
which Star Wars film has the most
practical miniatures in it
158
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,820
- of all the films. Including the new ones?
- Episode I.
159
00:09:29,903 --> 00:09:32,322
- Phantom Menace.
- That's all miniature work.
160
00:09:32,406 --> 00:09:35,117
Everybody's like, "That's CG."
No, that's real miniatures.
161
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Models.
162
00:09:36,285 --> 00:09:38,370
Yeah, models.
Beautiful and big models.
163
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What else we got?
164
00:09:39,663 --> 00:09:42,624
It's not a single type of thing,
165
00:09:42,708 --> 00:09:46,712
but Jurassic Park was a massive sea change
for visual effects.
166
00:09:46,795 --> 00:09:48,130
That was the tipping point.
167
00:09:48,213 --> 00:09:52,176
Before that, you'd had the chrome T-1000.
168
00:09:52,259 --> 00:09:54,928
People thought, "Okay,
that's suitable for computer graphics,
169
00:09:55,012 --> 00:09:57,514
"it's a chrome dude.
It doesn't look like a real person."
170
00:09:57,598 --> 00:10:00,184
There were other things
that were kind of...
171
00:10:00,267 --> 00:10:02,853
The Abyss really started that,
and that was also ILM, right?
172
00:10:02,936 --> 00:10:05,814
Abyss, then T2, and then Jurassic,
173
00:10:05,898 --> 00:10:09,109
and that was when people saw
for the first time it was flesh and blood.
174
00:10:09,193 --> 00:10:11,028
Not like someone else
was doing Abyss
175
00:10:11,111 --> 00:10:12,487
and ILM jumped in to do Jurassic.
176
00:10:12,571 --> 00:10:14,489
Back then, there were very few places.
177
00:10:14,573 --> 00:10:17,451
When the dinosaurs come onto the screen
for the first time,
178
00:10:17,534 --> 00:10:21,538
I sat up in my seat and I thought,
"I have to know how they did this,"
179
00:10:21,622 --> 00:10:25,209
because I understand that the computer,
there's computer graphic involved.
180
00:10:25,292 --> 00:10:26,710
I could learn how to do this.
181
00:10:26,793 --> 00:10:29,880
I'll never be the world's greatest artist
at painting or drawing,
182
00:10:29,963 --> 00:10:32,758
but I feel like I can learn
how to do this on the computer.
183
00:10:32,841 --> 00:10:37,179
I can get a book, I can find people,
'cause this is gonna absolutely explode.
184
00:10:37,262 --> 00:10:39,806
And that's how I started on my journey.
185
00:10:39,890 --> 00:10:43,268
It was that moment, seeing that movie,
and seeing things I need to know.
186
00:10:43,352 --> 00:10:45,812
It makes me think,
hearing you talk about this...
187
00:10:45,896 --> 00:10:50,484
I'd be curious from all of you guys
because of what we all do
188
00:10:50,567 --> 00:10:52,444
and what we all get excited about.
189
00:10:53,362 --> 00:10:58,617
What your movie experience was,
when that light bulb went off,
190
00:10:58,700 --> 00:11:01,161
and you're like, "I'm doing this"?
191
00:11:01,245 --> 00:11:05,749
For me, it was the original King Kong.
I saw it on TV when I was six or seven,
192
00:11:06,416 --> 00:11:09,086
and I was really unhappy
with the treatment of Kong
193
00:11:09,169 --> 00:11:11,922
at the end,
so my mom helped me draft a letter
194
00:11:12,005 --> 00:11:15,342
to the local TV station
who I held responsible, and...
195
00:11:15,425 --> 00:11:16,510
Wow.
196
00:11:16,593 --> 00:11:18,470
But it got me interested
in stop motion,
197
00:11:18,554 --> 00:11:21,056
so I was doing stop motion
when Star Wars came out.
198
00:11:21,139 --> 00:11:24,476
I was 13, and shooting
stop motion stuff with a Super 8 camera.
199
00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:26,645
Star Wars came out and that broadened
200
00:11:26,728 --> 00:11:29,147
my whole interest in visual effects.
201
00:11:29,231 --> 00:11:32,359
Like, how Luke's speeder was done,
how the lightsabers were done,
202
00:11:32,985 --> 00:11:36,572
the spaceships and everything else.
And so that kind of sealed the deal.
203
00:11:43,912 --> 00:11:46,373
For over a thousand generations,
the Jedi Knights
204
00:11:46,456 --> 00:11:50,419
were the guardians of
peace and justice in the Old Republic
205
00:11:51,170 --> 00:11:52,588
before the dark times.
206
00:11:53,422 --> 00:11:55,215
Star Wars was a big influence on me,
207
00:11:55,299 --> 00:11:58,010
'cause it came out in '77.
I was born in '66,
208
00:11:58,093 --> 00:12:01,638
so I was right at the right age
for that thing to hit.
209
00:12:03,599 --> 00:12:05,058
I don't remember a commercial,
210
00:12:05,142 --> 00:12:07,603
I remember seeing
a picture in the newspaper,
211
00:12:07,686 --> 00:12:09,730
like The New York Post, about the movie.
212
00:12:09,813 --> 00:12:12,816
And I saw the picture
of Chewbacca and Han Solo.
213
00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:15,027
Whatever the headline was,
I was intrigued.
214
00:12:17,237 --> 00:12:20,699
And I went to see it,
and then it was just, like...
215
00:12:21,241 --> 00:12:24,036
It just pinned my ears back
just looking at that thing.
216
00:12:24,119 --> 00:12:26,705
And I was just mouth agape.
217
00:12:29,082 --> 00:12:34,838
So my tastes formed
around George Lucas's Star Wars.
218
00:12:42,554 --> 00:12:44,473
I remember, very vividly,
219
00:12:44,556 --> 00:12:47,976
scoring tickets to Return of the Jedi.
220
00:12:48,060 --> 00:12:51,063
It felt like the golden ticket
221
00:12:51,146 --> 00:12:53,982
for getting into Willy Wonka's
chocolate factory.
222
00:12:55,734 --> 00:12:58,153
That's right, R2.
We're going to the Dagobah system.
223
00:12:58,237 --> 00:12:59,696
I have a promise to keep,
224
00:12:59,780 --> 00:13:01,198
to an old friend.
225
00:13:01,281 --> 00:13:03,909
It's so funny the way
a child's imagination works,
226
00:13:03,992 --> 00:13:06,411
because I remember, so specifically,
227
00:13:06,495 --> 00:13:10,541
knowing we had tickets
to the 3:00 p.m. showing
228
00:13:10,624 --> 00:13:13,001
and staring at the poster,
229
00:13:13,085 --> 00:13:15,879
and I'm pretty sure
it was Luke Skywalker's hand
230
00:13:15,963 --> 00:13:18,173
holding the lightsaber.
231
00:13:18,507 --> 00:13:22,344
It felt like a movie moment,
like the camera should have been there,
232
00:13:22,427 --> 00:13:26,014
close on my face, on the hand
and everything with Star Wars music,
233
00:13:26,098 --> 00:13:28,225
and I went,
"I'm finally going to see this movie."
234
00:13:28,308 --> 00:13:31,061
Welcome, young Skywalker.
235
00:13:31,687 --> 00:13:33,313
I have been expecting you.
236
00:13:34,565 --> 00:13:40,112
So, when these kinds of movies
come into your imagination as a child,
237
00:13:40,195 --> 00:13:42,656
it really shapes a lot
238
00:13:42,739 --> 00:13:45,367
and sets a certain standard
of entertainment
239
00:13:45,450 --> 00:13:46,952
that is hard to match.
240
00:13:47,035 --> 00:13:48,912
He's all yours, bounty hunter.
241
00:13:49,580 --> 00:13:53,417
As I became
more of a student of filmmaking
242
00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:57,504
I really began to appreciate
the brilliance of Star Wars,
243
00:13:57,588 --> 00:14:00,465
and what Lucas had created.
244
00:14:00,549 --> 00:14:03,969
And then I, of course,
started to read more.
245
00:14:04,761 --> 00:14:08,182
And the hero's journey
and all those kinds of books
246
00:14:08,265 --> 00:14:11,977
and began to really
appreciate Joe Campbell
247
00:14:12,060 --> 00:14:15,647
and what he was saying,
and understand a lot more.
248
00:14:15,731 --> 00:14:16,773
Luke,
249
00:14:16,857 --> 00:14:20,444
you do not yet realize your importance.
250
00:14:20,527 --> 00:14:23,280
You have only begun
to discover your power.
251
00:14:23,363 --> 00:14:27,409
Join me,
and I will complete your training.
252
00:14:27,993 --> 00:14:30,746
It was beyond being groundbreaking,
Star Wars was.
253
00:14:30,829 --> 00:14:36,835
It was, in its own way,
like a crack into some other universe
254
00:14:36,919 --> 00:14:38,837
that I hadn't been exposed to.
255
00:14:38,921 --> 00:14:41,256
The Force is
what gives a Jedi his power.
256
00:14:42,257 --> 00:14:44,718
It's an energy field
created by all living things.
257
00:14:44,801 --> 00:14:47,346
It surrounds us and penetrates us.
258
00:14:47,429 --> 00:14:49,515
It binds the galaxy together.
259
00:14:49,598 --> 00:14:52,309
So it was pretty phenomenal.
260
00:14:52,392 --> 00:14:56,605
Not only what it was at the time,
but what it has become.
261
00:14:56,688 --> 00:14:59,691
I, for one, I celebrate your success.
262
00:14:59,775 --> 00:15:02,277
Because it is my success as well.
263
00:15:07,449 --> 00:15:10,744
And something that I didn't
really appreciate till later in life,
264
00:15:10,827 --> 00:15:13,872
was in Empire Strikes Back,
and that's Luke's training.
265
00:15:13,956 --> 00:15:16,583
Like, I think that
all of that stuff with Yoda,
266
00:15:16,667 --> 00:15:18,585
it went over my head when I was a kid
267
00:15:18,669 --> 00:15:21,338
And it freaked me out
when he goes into that cave
268
00:15:21,421 --> 00:15:24,925
and he sees his face in the mask,
and I was like, "What is this movie?
269
00:15:25,008 --> 00:15:26,051
"It isn't like the last."
270
00:15:26,134 --> 00:15:27,135
Yeah.
271
00:15:27,302 --> 00:15:29,805
But that darkness and all of the messages,
272
00:15:29,888 --> 00:15:32,850
and I think my favorite
of all of the lines...
273
00:15:32,933 --> 00:15:36,228
And definitely in that film
was when, um, you know,
274
00:15:36,311 --> 00:15:39,106
when he's trying
to get the ship out of the swamp.
275
00:15:39,189 --> 00:15:41,400
And he can't do it, and then...
276
00:15:41,483 --> 00:15:43,861
Then Yoda brings the ship out,
277
00:15:43,944 --> 00:15:46,697
all the way out, floats it over
and then puts it down,
278
00:15:46,780 --> 00:15:49,616
and Luke says, "I don't believe it."
279
00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:51,743
And he goes, "That's why you fail."
280
00:15:52,327 --> 00:15:53,453
That's so good.
281
00:15:53,537 --> 00:15:55,581
I just got chills when you said that.
282
00:15:55,664 --> 00:15:57,040
That, that's really...
283
00:15:57,165 --> 00:15:58,208
Yeah, totally.
284
00:15:58,292 --> 00:16:00,419
You're right,
you appreciate that scene
285
00:16:00,502 --> 00:16:01,628
when you go back to it.
286
00:16:01,712 --> 00:16:03,172
You go back to it and you go,
287
00:16:03,255 --> 00:16:05,757
"Oh, there's so many deep themes..."
288
00:16:05,841 --> 00:16:07,968
Especially in terms of spirituality and...
289
00:16:08,051 --> 00:16:10,262
Even just how he introduced himself.
290
00:16:10,345 --> 00:16:14,683
Luke thinks he's looking
for this great Jedi, and it's...
291
00:16:14,766 --> 00:16:16,852
- "Wars don't make one great."
- Yeah.
292
00:16:16,935 --> 00:16:21,064
I thought it was special
the way they mixed creatures
293
00:16:21,148 --> 00:16:23,483
and the Henson stuff with live action.
294
00:16:23,567 --> 00:16:26,195
And I don't think anyone's
done it quite like that.
295
00:16:26,278 --> 00:16:29,448
Um, so, like, the training scene for that,
296
00:16:29,531 --> 00:16:31,533
when I was trying to do the montage
297
00:16:31,617 --> 00:16:34,119
with the Ugnaught
trying to teach IG to walk,
298
00:16:34,203 --> 00:16:37,414
that tone was actually
really difficult to find,
299
00:16:37,497 --> 00:16:39,708
'cause it... In three,
it had been very clear
300
00:16:39,791 --> 00:16:42,336
it was very clear it was a Western,
it was Yojimbo.
301
00:16:42,419 --> 00:16:46,048
So it was a very clear tone,
and that was lyrical and poetic.
302
00:16:46,131 --> 00:16:49,384
And it was mixing,
and trying to actually deliver something
303
00:16:49,468 --> 00:16:51,887
- quite with a lot of gravitas...
- Yes.
304
00:16:51,970 --> 00:16:56,266
With a droid and an animatronic,
you know, Ugnaught, which is...
305
00:16:56,350 --> 00:16:58,018
That's teaching him.
306
00:16:58,101 --> 00:16:59,269
- That's...
- It's great...
307
00:16:59,353 --> 00:17:01,355
But that's what's special. Nothing else...
308
00:17:01,438 --> 00:17:04,066
There's no other series
or world that does that.
309
00:17:04,149 --> 00:17:06,401
- And we talked about this.
- It's hard to do that.
310
00:17:06,485 --> 00:17:09,154
Like the PietÃ
of him holding the droid.
311
00:17:10,322 --> 00:17:13,575
'Cause what we had to do
was take the droid that was just terrible,
312
00:17:13,659 --> 00:17:18,539
and was gonna actually shoot the bounty.
313
00:17:18,622 --> 00:17:20,916
And he took him out.
314
00:17:21,458 --> 00:17:24,127
And he wasn't...
He didn't really have a personality.
315
00:17:24,211 --> 00:17:29,716
And Mando hated droids
because of what he had experienced.
316
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:33,554
And then
this specific droid is really bad.
317
00:17:33,637 --> 00:17:37,140
And then, what could you do
to redeem that thing?
318
00:17:37,224 --> 00:17:42,145
And part of it was set up
by this beautiful, lyrical prologue of...
319
00:17:42,229 --> 00:17:44,189
And it's sort of silly, but it's also,
320
00:17:44,273 --> 00:17:47,276
that kinda makes it, to me,
when it's right on that edge,
321
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,403
I find it really compelling.
322
00:17:49,486 --> 00:17:51,864
- And I love how he's cradling it...
- Yeah.
323
00:17:51,947 --> 00:17:55,951
And the speech that Nick Nolte gives
about how he found him
324
00:17:56,034 --> 00:17:59,955
and he nursed him back to health,
and taught him the ways of this and that.
325
00:18:00,038 --> 00:18:02,249
And you see
all the things you shot that...
326
00:18:02,332 --> 00:18:03,542
And the camera's flowing
327
00:18:03,625 --> 00:18:06,211
- from one to the next...
- Very poetic and different.
328
00:18:06,295 --> 00:18:09,131
His animation's great.
We've been working so long on that stuff,
329
00:18:09,214 --> 00:18:11,341
just to get it right to fit that tone.
330
00:18:11,425 --> 00:18:13,260
And then finally he comes out of it,
331
00:18:13,343 --> 00:18:16,471
and everybody's won over,
but Mando doesn't know what to think.
332
00:18:16,555 --> 00:18:19,474
And it's not till the end
when you, you know,
333
00:18:19,558 --> 00:18:22,603
make that act of self-sacrifice.
He doesn't want you to go.
334
00:18:22,686 --> 00:18:26,899
So that whole flip, to earn that
over the course of two episodes,
335
00:18:26,982 --> 00:18:29,484
and take that character,
it gives Mando an arc.
336
00:18:29,568 --> 00:18:31,153
And it also gives IG an arc.
337
00:18:31,236 --> 00:18:34,615
So you're taking all these characters
that are fun and cool,
338
00:18:34,698 --> 00:18:37,242
and, you know,
action movie, shoot-'em-up,
339
00:18:37,326 --> 00:18:40,204
and then it turns into something
with a heart to it.
340
00:18:40,287 --> 00:18:42,539
That's part of what makes
a Western also,
341
00:18:42,623 --> 00:18:45,250
that there's a deep emotion
running through it,
342
00:18:45,334 --> 00:18:49,880
even though you think it's about
the shootouts in the O.K. Corral,
343
00:18:49,963 --> 00:18:52,132
and jumping from the horse to the wagon,
344
00:18:52,216 --> 00:18:54,801
but really it's about humanity.
345
00:18:54,885 --> 00:18:55,886
And you capture it
346
00:18:55,969 --> 00:18:58,055
- with two not-human characters.
- Yeah.
347
00:18:58,138 --> 00:19:00,265
- And you kill 'em both, Jon.
- Yeah.
348
00:19:01,433 --> 00:19:03,685
- That's very true.
- That's true.
349
00:19:03,769 --> 00:19:05,938
- Poor Ugnaught.
- That's part of it, too.
350
00:19:06,021 --> 00:19:08,524
That's part of it.
If you don't, that doesn't matter.
351
00:19:17,533 --> 00:19:20,452
This is an extension
of what mythology is,
352
00:19:20,536 --> 00:19:24,915
which is you're telling stories
to the generation that's coming of age,
353
00:19:24,998 --> 00:19:28,752
to teach them the lessons of life
through entertainment.
354
00:19:28,836 --> 00:19:31,004
In our culture, you do it through movies.
355
00:19:31,713 --> 00:19:34,925
Size matters not. Look at me.
356
00:19:35,008 --> 00:19:36,885
Judge me by my size, do you?
357
00:19:36,969 --> 00:19:38,387
At first, you kind of say it
358
00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:41,265
'cause that's what the filmmakers
you look up to say.
359
00:19:41,348 --> 00:19:45,227
But the more you learn about them,
you realize that it's really powerful.
360
00:19:45,310 --> 00:19:48,355
Story is still important,
and story with progression,
361
00:19:48,438 --> 00:19:52,818
and the idea of sacrifice and perseverance
and evolution through challenge.
362
00:19:52,901 --> 00:19:56,655
And all of the little specificities
that come along with it.
363
00:19:56,738 --> 00:20:00,742
When one chooses to walk
the Way of the Mandalore,
364
00:20:00,826 --> 00:20:03,078
you are both hunter and prey.
365
00:20:03,161 --> 00:20:07,666
I guess inside of all of us,
there's that hero that's on that journey.
366
00:20:09,376 --> 00:20:12,713
And in search of
and the connection to father,
367
00:20:12,796 --> 00:20:16,758
and to the father at large,
the greater father, you know.
368
00:20:16,842 --> 00:20:19,803
The connection to all that is
and how we access that
369
00:20:19,887 --> 00:20:22,222
and how we utilize that,
370
00:20:22,306 --> 00:20:26,268
and ultimately how that informs us
in how we continue our journey
371
00:20:26,351 --> 00:20:31,315
as a result of that information,
and sometimes how we fight against it.
372
00:20:31,398 --> 00:20:34,776
And that very fight is the thing
that creates a kind of conflict in us
373
00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:38,280
that doesn't allow us
to continue the journey.
374
00:20:38,363 --> 00:20:40,449
I can't kill my own father.
375
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,039
Then the Emperor has already won.
376
00:20:48,248 --> 00:20:50,375
You were our only hope.
377
00:20:50,459 --> 00:20:53,420
It's kind of remarkable
that a creative force
378
00:20:53,504 --> 00:20:58,926
has the foresight and the understanding
of something that I didn't quite get,
379
00:20:59,009 --> 00:21:01,136
you know, when I was in my early 20s.
380
00:21:01,220 --> 00:21:05,265
I think I was in search of something
that already existed,
381
00:21:05,349 --> 00:21:11,647
but for many of us, I guess,
the more we studied or grew,
382
00:21:11,730 --> 00:21:14,191
or became maybe a little more evolved,
383
00:21:14,274 --> 00:21:19,154
we could then relate to what George Lucas
was saying in a movie.
384
00:21:19,238 --> 00:21:22,699
That was about so much more
than what that movie appeared to be about.
385
00:21:22,783 --> 00:21:25,118
I'll not leave you here.
I've got to save you.
386
00:21:25,953 --> 00:21:28,664
You already have.
387
00:21:32,626 --> 00:21:34,545
Prequels were almost an impossible task.
388
00:21:34,628 --> 00:21:38,590
How do you tell a story we've all grown up
with, imagining who Anakin Skywalker was?
389
00:21:38,674 --> 00:21:42,427
You saw things in Phantom Menace that
you just imagined, like the Jedi council,
390
00:21:42,511 --> 00:21:45,848
and none of it really was
what I had expected,
391
00:21:45,931 --> 00:21:48,684
but I know now that
that's just how creative George is.
392
00:21:48,767 --> 00:21:51,395
He just sees it differently,
and he's laying it down.
393
00:21:51,478 --> 00:21:53,188
I love the fight with Darth Maul,
394
00:21:53,272 --> 00:21:57,067
not because it's a lightsaber fight,
but because George is so good
395
00:21:57,150 --> 00:21:59,361
at crafting why that fight's important...
396
00:21:59,444 --> 00:22:00,571
- Mmm.
- Every time.
397
00:22:00,654 --> 00:22:02,364
Like, the Obi-Wan-Darth Vader fight
398
00:22:02,447 --> 00:22:06,743
isn't the most wonderfully staged combat
that you're ever going to see,
399
00:22:06,827 --> 00:22:10,497
but there's so much at stake.
It's so meaningful when Obi-Wan dies,
400
00:22:10,581 --> 00:22:12,207
that we all feel like Luke.
401
00:22:12,291 --> 00:22:13,500
In Phantom Menace,
402
00:22:13,584 --> 00:22:17,296
you see these two Jedi in their prime
fight this evil villain.
403
00:22:17,379 --> 00:22:21,008
Maul couldn't be more obviously
the villain. He's designed to look evil.
404
00:22:21,091 --> 00:22:23,760
And he is evil,
and he expresses that from his face
405
00:22:23,844 --> 00:22:26,138
to the type of lightsaber he fights with.
406
00:22:26,221 --> 00:22:28,932
What's at stake
is how Anakin is gonna turn out
407
00:22:29,016 --> 00:22:30,976
'cause Qui-Gon is different
from other Jedi,
408
00:22:31,059 --> 00:22:32,769
you get that in the movie.
409
00:22:32,853 --> 00:22:36,148
Qui-Gon is fighting because he knows
he's the father that Anakin needs.
410
00:22:36,231 --> 00:22:40,277
Qui-Gon hasn't given up on the fact
that Jedi are supposed to actually care
411
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,738
and love, and that that's not a bad thing.
412
00:22:42,821 --> 00:22:46,158
The rest of the Jedi are so detached
and they've become so political
413
00:22:46,241 --> 00:22:47,659
that they've lost their way.
414
00:22:47,743 --> 00:22:49,870
And Yoda starts to see that
in the second film.
415
00:22:49,953 --> 00:22:51,622
But Qui-Gon is ahead of them all.
416
00:22:51,705 --> 00:22:54,917
That's why he's not part of the council,
so he's fighting for Anakin.
417
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,377
So it's the Duel of the Fates.
The fate of this child.
418
00:22:57,461 --> 00:23:00,547
And depending on how this fight goes,
Anakin is gonna...
419
00:23:00,631 --> 00:23:03,842
His life will be dramatically different.
So Qui-Gon loses, of course.
420
00:23:06,011 --> 00:23:07,804
The father figure...
421
00:23:07,888 --> 00:23:09,389
'Cause he knew what it meant
422
00:23:09,473 --> 00:23:12,309
to take this kid away from his mother
when he had an attachment,
423
00:23:12,392 --> 00:23:14,061
and he's left with Obi-Wan.
424
00:23:14,144 --> 00:23:19,066
Obi-Wan trains Anakin at first
out of a promise he makes to Qui-Gon,
425
00:23:19,149 --> 00:23:21,026
not because he cares about him.
426
00:23:21,109 --> 00:23:23,445
When they find Anakin on Tatooine,
he says,
427
00:23:23,529 --> 00:23:25,781
"I feel like we've found
another useless lifeform."
428
00:23:25,864 --> 00:23:27,866
He's comparing Anakin to Jar Jar.
429
00:23:29,076 --> 00:23:32,329
And he's saying, "This is a waste of time.
Why are we doing this?
430
00:23:32,412 --> 00:23:36,250
"Why do you see importance
in these creatures like Jar Jar Binks
431
00:23:36,333 --> 00:23:39,503
"and this 10-year-old boy?
This is useless."
432
00:23:39,586 --> 00:23:44,591
So he's a brother to Anakin, eventually,
but he's not a father figure.
433
00:23:44,675 --> 00:23:48,679
That's a failing for Anakin.
He doesn't have the family that he needs.
434
00:23:48,762 --> 00:23:50,681
He loses his mother in the next film.
435
00:23:50,764 --> 00:23:53,934
He fails on this promise he made,
"Mother, I will come back and save you."
436
00:23:54,017 --> 00:23:56,645
So he's left completely vulnerable.
437
00:23:56,728 --> 00:23:59,147
And Star Wars ultimately is about family.
438
00:23:59,231 --> 00:24:02,609
So that moment in that movie,
which a lot of people diminish as,
439
00:24:02,693 --> 00:24:04,403
"Oh, this is a cool lightsaber fight."
440
00:24:04,486 --> 00:24:08,490
But it's everything that the entire
three films of the prequels hangs on,
441
00:24:08,574 --> 00:24:12,077
is that one particular fight.
And Maul serves his purpose,
442
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,247
and, at that point, died before George
made me bring him back.
443
00:24:15,330 --> 00:24:18,709
But he died, showing you how the Emperor
is completely self-serving.
444
00:24:18,792 --> 00:24:22,629
He doesn't care, he's using people,
and now he's gonna use this child.
445
00:24:22,713 --> 00:24:26,258
That falls all the way through to the line
which terrified me as a kid,
446
00:24:26,341 --> 00:24:30,345
when the Emperor tells Luke,
"You, like your father, are now mine."
447
00:24:30,429 --> 00:24:32,347
And the idea, when I was a little kid,
448
00:24:32,431 --> 00:24:36,935
watching that movie of some evil person
possessing my father,
449
00:24:37,019 --> 00:24:40,439
making him do things
or making him be evil was terrifying.
450
00:24:40,522 --> 00:24:42,649
That was like a thought that was horrible.
451
00:24:42,733 --> 00:24:44,776
It's amazing when you watch
Return of the Jedi
452
00:24:44,860 --> 00:24:48,322
that Luke has never done anything
that indicates bad character.
453
00:24:48,405 --> 00:24:51,658
He has a tendency to be dark
and people wanted Anakin,
454
00:24:51,742 --> 00:24:53,577
"He should have been
darker as a character."
455
00:24:53,660 --> 00:24:57,706
It's not true at all. I believed
Luke would turn to the dark side
456
00:24:57,789 --> 00:25:00,542
in Return of the Jedi,
I believe that was on the table.
457
00:25:00,626 --> 00:25:03,170
I believed that he would kill the Emperor.
458
00:25:03,253 --> 00:25:07,508
The way George arranges the story,
I knew that was the wrong thing to do.
459
00:25:07,591 --> 00:25:11,720
When he's saying, you know,
"You want your weapon,"
460
00:25:11,803 --> 00:25:13,555
"Strike me down. I am defenseless,"
461
00:25:13,639 --> 00:25:16,266
he wants him to give in
to his anger and his hate,
462
00:25:16,350 --> 00:25:19,561
and the fear, the structure
George laid out in all the movies,
463
00:25:19,645 --> 00:25:21,813
is coming to fruition now,
464
00:25:21,897 --> 00:25:26,026
and the only thing that's gonna save him
is not his connection to the Force,
465
00:25:26,109 --> 00:25:27,861
it's not the powers he's learned.
466
00:25:27,945 --> 00:25:30,239
It's not all these things
that are an advantage,
467
00:25:30,322 --> 00:25:32,032
that's gotten him to the table.
468
00:25:32,115 --> 00:25:34,826
But what saves Luke
is his ability to look at all that
469
00:25:34,910 --> 00:25:36,912
and look at his father and say, "No,
470
00:25:36,995 --> 00:25:39,957
"I'm gonna throw away this weapon.
I'm not gonna do that.
471
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,751
"I'm gonna let that go and be selfless."
472
00:25:42,835 --> 00:25:45,546
And he says, "I am a Jedi
like my father before me."
473
00:25:45,629 --> 00:25:48,090
But what he's really saying,
and why we connect...
474
00:25:48,173 --> 00:25:50,592
I connect to it 'cause he's saying,
"I love my father
475
00:25:50,676 --> 00:25:54,054
"and there's nothing you can do
that's gonna change that."
476
00:25:54,638 --> 00:25:56,807
The Emperor
can't understand that connection.
477
00:25:56,890 --> 00:25:59,142
"Why won't you take from
the power of the galaxy?
478
00:25:59,226 --> 00:26:00,352
"Why won't you take this?"
479
00:26:00,435 --> 00:26:04,314
And Anakin, in that moment,
has to be the father that he's never had.
480
00:26:04,398 --> 00:26:07,317
He has to give up
all the power in the galaxy
481
00:26:07,401 --> 00:26:08,777
and save his son.
482
00:26:08,861 --> 00:26:12,531
And that's the selfless act
that he does in return for his son.
483
00:26:12,614 --> 00:26:15,158
And that's what saves him in turn...
484
00:26:15,242 --> 00:26:17,244
Son saves the father,
the father saves the son
485
00:26:17,327 --> 00:26:18,704
and it works out perfectly,
486
00:26:18,787 --> 00:26:22,332
and I draw that line all the way
from The Phantom Menace to Jedi.
487
00:26:22,416 --> 00:26:23,959
That's the story of Star Wars.
488
00:26:24,042 --> 00:26:25,544
So when he pops the helmet...
489
00:26:25,627 --> 00:26:28,630
When he pops the helmet off,
and that moment was part of the...
490
00:26:28,714 --> 00:26:29,840
- Yeah...
- fated arc?
491
00:26:29,923 --> 00:26:34,094
It's all part of the fated arc
and why it works and why we care.
492
00:26:34,178 --> 00:26:37,139
It's not about X-wings,
it's not all about all these...
493
00:26:37,222 --> 00:26:41,226
The things we we decorate Star Wars in.
It's important, it's part of the genius.
494
00:26:41,310 --> 00:26:44,188
But we soulfully react, like...
495
00:26:44,688 --> 00:26:48,066
We don't just want an action movie,
we want to feel uplifted.
496
00:26:48,150 --> 00:26:52,571
And Star Wars is an adventure
that makes you feel good, you know?
497
00:26:52,654 --> 00:26:56,783
It makes me feel like,
"Wow, I want to be a part of that."
498
00:26:56,867 --> 00:26:59,578
So that's what I always
go back to with Star Wars,
499
00:26:59,661 --> 00:27:03,040
is this selfless act
and this family dynamic,
500
00:27:03,123 --> 00:27:05,876
which is so important to George,
501
00:27:05,959 --> 00:27:08,128
so important to the foundation
of Star Wars.
502
00:27:08,212 --> 00:27:10,339
That's in us, and what I like about it is,
503
00:27:10,422 --> 00:27:12,883
it is saying
there's a lot of hope out there,
504
00:27:12,966 --> 00:27:15,219
that we fundamentally
want to be good people,
505
00:27:15,302 --> 00:27:17,596
that we can be driven
to do terrible things,
506
00:27:17,679 --> 00:27:21,475
but that we can persevere
through selfless action.
507
00:27:21,558 --> 00:27:25,020
So George has this hopeful story,
508
00:27:25,103 --> 00:27:28,815
and it's something that he's reiterated
most times I've seen him,
509
00:27:28,899 --> 00:27:32,444
you know, after we've been
making things without him is,
510
00:27:32,528 --> 00:27:34,571
"Remember to make these stories hopeful.
511
00:27:35,113 --> 00:27:38,408
"Remember to give that to kids
because they really need it."
512
00:27:38,492 --> 00:27:40,869
And so that's just something
to keep in mind.
513
00:27:40,953 --> 00:27:42,953
- Did I bring us down? Or did I lift us up?
- Yeah.
514
00:27:42,996 --> 00:27:45,832
- Beautiful, that was beautiful.
- I think we're done.
515
00:27:48,085 --> 00:27:49,628
- It's hopeful for me.
- Yeah.
44916
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