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In the criminal justice system
the people are represented
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00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:06,080
by two separate
yet equally important groups -
3
00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,360
the police who investigate crime,
4
00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:10,960
and the Crown prosecutors
who prosecute offenders.
5
00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:12,840
These are their stories.
6
00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:16,720
It's an oxymoron.
No, it's not.
7
00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,600
Matty, what are you talking about?
8
00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,560
Sausages are made from meat,
not soya.
9
00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:25,800
They certainly ain't made
from vegetables.
10
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,040
Why should veggies be denied
the pleasure of a sausage roll?
11
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,720
And it is half the fat.
And half the taste.
12
00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:33,920
I'm at the peak of my fitness.
13
00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,040
Do not let
this cuddly exterior fool you.
14
00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:42,840
Blimey! Who died?
15
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,400
My office...now.
16
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,560
He's in there.
17
00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:12,600
How could anyone?
18
00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,120
He's five, maybe six.
19
00:01:44,320 --> 00:01:46,960
Looks like he's only been dead
a few hours.
20
00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:49,720
Contusions round the...
21
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,200
Are you OK, Joy?
22
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,080
Take your time, love.
23
00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:01,080
Contusions round the neck.
24
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,280
Petichiae round the eyes.
25
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:06,280
A bang to the back of the head.
26
00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,760
There's curvilinear abrasions here
and here,
27
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,920
suggesting strangulation.
28
00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:16,040
And there's this.
29
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,520
Caused by
something sharp and pointed,
30
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,000
bigger than a pin or a needle,
though.
31
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,880
Looks like a letter R.
32
00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:29,400
What's that on his lips?
33
00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,720
There was a popping noise
when I moved him
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00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:33,840
to examine the head wound.
35
00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,240
This was on the floor.
36
00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:40,000
Someone's poured the whole lot
into his mouth.
37
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:41,920
Crackle Candy.
38
00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,000
Just when you think
you've seen it all.
39
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,880
How can we have a body when
the kid hasn't even been missed?
40
00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,440
Cos the parents probably did it.
41
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,120
Maybe they're at work.
It's half term.
42
00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,880
Even the parents here with jobs
can't afford a child minder.
43
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,200
They haven't even noticed
he's missing.
44
00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,840
Keep them as far away as possible.
45
00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,960
There's CCTV all over this estate.
They must have caught something.
46
00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:02,040
If you can find one that works.
47
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,320
I'll get Intel onto it.
Talk to the kids.
48
00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,560
See if any of their mates
have gone AWOL.
49
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,160
Darren's in the park doing it
with Shania Chapman.
50
00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,440
How old's Darren?
11.
51
00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,280
11. Whatever happened
to a game of conkers?
52
00:04:17,280 --> 00:04:19,240
What's conkers?
53
00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,600
Conor. Conor.
54
00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,600
Conor.
55
00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:27,440
What's happening here?
You all right, son. What's up?
56
00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,800
My brother Conor was supposed
to meet me hours ago.
57
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,600
How old's your brother?
Six.
58
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,440
When did you last see him?
This morning.
59
00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,360
I saw him.
He was playing over there.
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00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,000
Then this smelly man
come and took him.
61
00:04:46,840 --> 00:04:48,880
Baseball cap,
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00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,120
with like a beard.
63
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,560
And wearing a leather jacket.
That's what you said.
64
00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,680
And you saw him with Conor?
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00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,360
(MOBILE PHONE RINGS)
He smelled like petrol.
66
00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,440
Right.
Devlin.
67
00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:03,360
You were so close
you could smell him?
68
00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,720
He walked past her, didn't he?
69
00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,800
When he walked past you,
was Conor with him then? No.
70
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:13,880
He went in with Conor,
but he come out on his own. OK.
71
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,680
They just picked up Conor's mum
from work.
72
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,960
She's on her way to the mortuary.
73
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,160
(GENTLE SOUNDTRACK MUSIC)
74
00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:58,480
I was late for work.
75
00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,240
I didn't kiss him goodbye.
76
00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:12,320
I'm very sorry, but we're going
to need to ask you some questions.
77
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,440
Do you think he was really scared?
78
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,680
You've had some contact with
Social Services over the kids?
79
00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,880
My ex hit Liam once.
80
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:28,080
When I found out I packed his bags.
81
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,680
So there wasn't an adult
you could leave him with?
82
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:36,160
You think I could afford
a supernanny?
83
00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,200
I work 12 hours a day to keep a roof
over our heads.
84
00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,160
I can't give up
cos it's the school holidays.
85
00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,240
So Liam looks after Conor
while you're at work? Yeah.
86
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,320
Liam and the girls.
87
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,000
That's Paige Ward?
Paige and her mate.
88
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:56,240
Always coming round
asking if they can babysit.
89
00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,800
Conor loved them.
90
00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:03,760
Can I get Buddy back?
91
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,120
That's his toy dog.
He took him everywhere.
92
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,040
Of course. We need to keep him
a bit longer,
93
00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,440
but we'll let you have him back
as soon as we can. I promise.
94
00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,720
Julie, have you ever seen this man
around the estate?
95
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,280
We think he's a mechanic.
96
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:25,760
Yeah. He looks like my neighbour's
boyfriend - Rob something.
97
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,920
No. He works at the garage
on Cold Harbour Lane.
98
00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:35,880
You think it was him?
99
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,560
Maybe you should call your brief.
100
00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,560
I don't need one cos I know nothing
about no little boy.
101
00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,800
I'm a red-blooded bloke. Look under
my mattress if you don't believe me.
102
00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,040
A witness saw you take him
into the flats.
103
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,600
Only, you came out alone
and he ended up dead.
104
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,400
The boy lived in the flat
next door to your girlfriend.
105
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,920
A witness spotted you abduct him.
They need their eyes testing.
106
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,400
I banged on my missus' door
for ten minutes.
107
00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,400
Then I went back to work.
Did anyone see you leave?
108
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,280
I don't know, do I?
109
00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:17,560
There was a girl. There was a girl.
110
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,280
She must have been about twelve-ish.
111
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,880
That's it?
Yeah.
112
00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,320
She had like fair hair.
113
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,880
She was a skinny thing.
114
00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,400
And an Arsenal shirt.
115
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,600
And this was at Lexden House?
Right by the door,
116
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,320
like she was waiting
for someone to come out.
117
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,120
Here's the problem, Paige.
118
00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,880
You say you saw the man at
the empty flats they're pulling down.
119
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,040
He went inside with Conor.
120
00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,280
I don't like her playing
near them flats.
121
00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:03,440
We think you saw the man
at Lexden House where Conor lived.
122
00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,800
No. Are you sure
it wasn't Lexden House?
123
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,040
It was Peldon. I ain't lying, Mum.
124
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,080
Paige don't tell lies.
She's a good girl.
125
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,640
You've never been to Lexden House
at any time? No.
126
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,280
Are you sure about that?
I said, didn't I? I told you.
127
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,400
Why's he picking on me?
We just need you to help us out.
128
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,680
Yeah. Would you like a drink?
Want a cup of tea, Matty?
129
00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:32,480
Mrs Ward, would you like
a cup of tea?
130
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,880
Cheers. Two sugars.
OK.
131
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,400
I chewed my nails when I was a kid.
132
00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:44,880
Especially if I was nervous.
133
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:49,040
We had a teacher who'd bang his hand
on the table when he saw me do it.
134
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,720
Of course,
that only made me do it even more.
135
00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,480
You chew your nails
cos you're nervous, don't you?
136
00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,000
The thing is, Paige,
137
00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:02,840
we've spoken to the man
that you saw with Conor.
138
00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,440
He says you saw him at Lexden House
where Conor lived.
139
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,800
He was by Peldon.
And you're absolutely certain?
140
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,280
Cross my heart. I won't be angry
if you've made a mistake. We all do.
141
00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,720
If you don't believe her,
you can ask her mate.
142
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,600
Joined at the hip them two.
143
00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,560
Someone else saw what happened?
144
00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:26,760
Rose. She was with me
the whole time.
145
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,080
Who is it?
Police.
146
00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:34,120
Open up, please.
147
00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,000
Got a warrant?
148
00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:40,160
Is your mum there, Rose?
She's busy.
149
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,560
We just need you to open the door.
150
00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,120
I'm only supposed to open the door
if she screams.
151
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,280
Thank you.
152
00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,440
I don't do threesomes.
Your mate will have to wait.
153
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,200
Actually, we would like
to talk to Rose
154
00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,640
about the boy who died
in the empty flats.
155
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,280
Rose don't know nothing about it.
156
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,520
Well, we think
she could be a witness.
157
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,560
So we'd like you both to come
to the station for a video ID.
158
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,040
Both girls picked out Denton
from the video ID.
159
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,000
We have enough to charge him.
160
00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,320
And Denton identified Paige
outside the dead boy's flat.
161
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,600
Or he saw her at the murder scene.
Denton has no previous with kids.
162
00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,680
The cause of death
was by manual strangulation.
163
00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:00,840
No signs of sexual assault.
164
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,920
He's been flying under the radar.
The girls saw him.
165
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,000
I still think Paige is lying.
Because she chews her nails?
166
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,920
It's just a feeling.
We can talk to her again.
167
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,800
If the girls saw Denton take
the kid, someone else must have.
168
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,400
Someone did.
169
00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:20,280
There's something you need to see.
170
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:22,440
This is Denton outside
his girlfriend's flat.
171
00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,640
At 9:31 he heads
towards the car park.
172
00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,280
Then at 9:35...
173
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,800
Another camera picks them up
heading towards Peldon House.
174
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,840
Please, God, tell me
this isn't what I think it is.
175
00:13:04,180 --> 00:13:06,500
Look at her. Face of an angel.
176
00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:09,060
Paige seems to trust you.
177
00:13:09,060 --> 00:13:13,260
You take Rose, but I want a CPS
member watching the interviews.
178
00:13:13,260 --> 00:13:17,100
I want both girls arrested
and cautioned before they speak.
179
00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:21,860
You understand that you can have
a solicitor here if you want one?
180
00:13:21,860 --> 00:13:25,140
We don't need one. She ain't done
nothing wrong, have you? No.
181
00:13:27,260 --> 00:13:29,180
OK.
182
00:13:30,060 --> 00:13:32,980
I want to talk about what happened
to little Conor.
183
00:13:34,940 --> 00:13:37,940
'You went out to play with
your friend Paige. Is that right?'
184
00:13:37,940 --> 00:13:42,180
'Yeah. We played football.'
'OK.'
185
00:13:42,180 --> 00:13:44,860
Do you know Conor -
You know she does.
186
00:13:44,860 --> 00:13:48,300
Miss Shaw, I need Rose to answer.
Come on, then.
187
00:13:50,100 --> 00:13:53,180
Rose, did you go to Conor's flat
the morning he died?
188
00:13:53,180 --> 00:13:56,060
Yeah. Liam left him alone.
189
00:13:56,060 --> 00:13:58,540
So you and Paige
took him out to play?
190
00:13:58,540 --> 00:14:02,060
It ain't nice being left alone.
Will this take much longer?
191
00:14:02,060 --> 00:14:06,060
Is there somewhere you need to be?
I can get a social worker.
192
00:14:06,060 --> 00:14:09,820
You don't know me.
Just get on with it, yeah?
193
00:14:15,020 --> 00:14:17,540
Where did you take Conor to play?
194
00:14:17,540 --> 00:14:19,700
By Peldon House.
195
00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:22,900
But then this man come
and took Conor inside.
196
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:26,980
You know that's where we found Conor,
Peldon House?
197
00:14:28,780 --> 00:14:30,740
Did he just lay down and die?
198
00:14:35,980 --> 00:14:38,620
I think you know how he died, Rose.
199
00:14:38,620 --> 00:14:41,980
I don't think there was
any man there at all.
200
00:14:41,980 --> 00:14:44,820
Yes, there was a man.
Look, the man took him.
201
00:14:44,820 --> 00:14:47,020
Ask him what happened to Conor.
202
00:14:47,020 --> 00:14:49,820
I don't think you're telling me
the truth. Yes, I am!
203
00:14:49,820 --> 00:14:53,860
You can call that social worker.
Mum, you can't leave me.
204
00:14:53,860 --> 00:14:57,660
Just listen to what he says.
You say, "No comment."
205
00:14:57,660 --> 00:15:00,100
I want to go home with my mum.
Stay there.
206
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:04,820
I used to sit in these rooms
just as twitchy as you. Calm down.
207
00:15:04,820 --> 00:15:04,900
I used to sit in these rooms
just as twitchy as you. Calm down.
208
00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:07,340
Kelly, listen to me.
209
00:15:07,340 --> 00:15:11,500
I was worrying about
when I'd get my next drink.
210
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:14,220
Mum!
Shut up!
211
00:15:14,220 --> 00:15:18,780
Kelly! Today could be the first day
you don't use. You do have a choice.
212
00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:20,660
Your habit or your daughter.
213
00:15:22,220 --> 00:15:26,140
Mum. Mum! Mum! Mum, please!
214
00:15:30,860 --> 00:15:32,780
(SLURPS DRINK)
215
00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:35,420
(SLURPS DRINK)
216
00:15:35,420 --> 00:15:37,620
So you like Arsenal?
217
00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:41,500
They're the best. It's OK to support
them if you're from South London
218
00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:45,180
cos really they're from Woolwich.
They moved north in the past.
219
00:15:45,180 --> 00:15:49,140
That's right. And you have number
11 on your shirt. Van Persie?
220
00:15:49,140 --> 00:15:52,860
Rachel Yankey done this talk
at our school. Arsenal Ladies.
221
00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:55,260
It's all she goes on about.
222
00:15:55,260 --> 00:15:57,620
Maybe one day
you'll be the next Yankey.
223
00:15:57,620 --> 00:16:01,180
I'll never be as good as her.
I played a bit as a kid.
224
00:16:01,180 --> 00:16:04,700
We had a scout from Arsenal
come round our school.
225
00:16:04,700 --> 00:16:07,540
Only, I was so nervous
about not being picked
226
00:16:07,540 --> 00:16:10,460
I pulled a sickie.
So you didn't even try?
227
00:16:10,460 --> 00:16:14,940
I wanted to, but the truth is
I was too scared of messing up.
228
00:16:16,140 --> 00:16:20,220
I've never told anyone that before.
I feel better now I've told you.
229
00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:24,580
You know when you try
and keep a secret,
230
00:16:24,580 --> 00:16:29,020
and you wanna tell,
it sort of hurts to keep it inside.
231
00:16:29,020 --> 00:16:29,060
and you wanna tell,
it sort of hurts to keep it inside.
232
00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:34,260
If you share it with a friend,
it feels better.
233
00:16:34,260 --> 00:16:37,380
You see, Paige,
I think you have a secret
234
00:16:37,380 --> 00:16:39,780
about what happened to little Conor.
235
00:16:40,740 --> 00:16:42,540
And we're friends, aren't we?
236
00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:46,860
Let me share your secret.
237
00:16:47,740 --> 00:16:49,620
Make it stop hurting.
238
00:16:50,740 --> 00:16:52,660
Mum.
239
00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:02,980
She's so close I can smell it.
240
00:17:05,900 --> 00:17:09,180
When my girls were little,
I took them to the fair one Sunday.
241
00:17:12,860 --> 00:17:16,060
We were queuing up. I was paying
for them to go on this ride.
242
00:17:18,460 --> 00:17:22,100
A typical Sunday dad,
over-compensating.
243
00:17:22,100 --> 00:17:25,060
I've got toys and prizes I'd won.
244
00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:27,540
Pop corn. Candy floss.
All that stuff.
245
00:17:28,460 --> 00:17:31,140
I turned round,
and the little un' had gone.
246
00:17:35,180 --> 00:17:37,820
Just disappeared,
and the place was mobbed.
247
00:17:40,620 --> 00:17:43,060
That is
really, truly frightening to me.
248
00:17:44,940 --> 00:17:46,980
Do you know where she was?
249
00:17:46,980 --> 00:17:49,140
And me a copper, an' all!
250
00:17:49,140 --> 00:17:52,300
She'd sneaked
into the stall next door,
251
00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:54,380
and was trying to nick a goldfish.
252
00:17:56,020 --> 00:17:58,180
(SIGHS) I tell you, kids, mate!
253
00:17:58,180 --> 00:18:00,460
It's frightening.
254
00:18:02,460 --> 00:18:04,580
We should get back in there.
255
00:18:04,580 --> 00:18:06,460
Yeah.
256
00:18:07,660 --> 00:18:09,580
Just give us a minute.
257
00:18:16,420 --> 00:18:19,140
Tell me it ain't true
you got them girls in there.
258
00:18:20,220 --> 00:18:23,340
They wouldn't hurt my Conor.
They wouldn't!
259
00:18:23,340 --> 00:18:26,220
We're just talking to them
at the moment.
260
00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:30,140
But they're just kids.
Tell me they didn't do it!
261
00:18:30,140 --> 00:18:32,020
Please, I need it. (SOBS)
262
00:18:48,220 --> 00:18:50,660
That's you, isn't it, Paige?
263
00:18:50,660 --> 00:18:53,540
Number 11, like Rachel Yankey.
264
00:18:53,540 --> 00:18:55,860
And that's Rose, isn't it?
265
00:18:57,780 --> 00:18:59,980
And that's Conor.
266
00:19:02,540 --> 00:19:04,580
You see, there's cameras
all over the estate.
267
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:07,980
They take pictures
of people walking about,
268
00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:09,500
going in and out of the blocks.
269
00:19:11,060 --> 00:19:14,700
This picture was taken about
20 minutes before Conor died.
270
00:19:16,820 --> 00:19:20,540
There's other pictures
that show the man you picked out
271
00:19:20,540 --> 00:19:23,420
leaving the estate
before Conor died.
272
00:19:31,780 --> 00:19:35,220
Do you think mum realises
just how serious this is?
273
00:19:35,220 --> 00:19:39,260
Who wants to believe their kid's
involved with something like this?
274
00:19:40,860 --> 00:19:42,780
The poor woman's in shock.
275
00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:47,220
I would be if that was
one of my girls sat there.
276
00:19:48,460 --> 00:19:51,300
Maybe we should get Matt to ask
again if they want a brief.
277
00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:53,820
She's gonna spill any second.
278
00:19:53,820 --> 00:19:58,780
You know I love you, babe,
no matter what you done.
279
00:19:58,780 --> 00:20:01,460
You have to tell
the policeman the truth.
280
00:20:01,460 --> 00:20:04,900
Who went into Peldon House
with Conor?
281
00:20:06,020 --> 00:20:07,900
Just me and Rose.
282
00:20:10,660 --> 00:20:13,940
And little Conor. We took him.
283
00:20:13,940 --> 00:20:15,780
And did someone hurt Conor?
284
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:18,820
He was crying.
285
00:20:18,820 --> 00:20:20,700
He wanted his mum.
286
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:25,020
And Rose put her hands
around his neck.
287
00:20:27,060 --> 00:20:29,260
He tried to get her off,
288
00:20:29,260 --> 00:20:32,740
but he fell back and banged his head
against the wall.
289
00:20:32,740 --> 00:20:35,380
It's OK, baby. It's OK.
290
00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:40,940
What happened next, Paige?
She got on top of him.
291
00:20:40,940 --> 00:20:43,060
'Started squeezing his neck again.
292
00:20:45,260 --> 00:20:47,460
When she got off he just lay there.'
293
00:20:49,740 --> 00:20:52,980
And then she got out this compass,
294
00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:54,900
like we use in Maths,
295
00:20:56,900 --> 00:20:59,980
and told me to scratch my name
on his tummy.
296
00:21:00,860 --> 00:21:02,260
And you did it?
297
00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:05,180
I only did the P.
298
00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:08,660
I couldn't do the rest.
299
00:21:09,860 --> 00:21:12,060
Then she took it off me,
300
00:21:12,060 --> 00:21:15,500
and done another line
to make it an R for Rose.
301
00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:21,500
Can we go home now?
302
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,120
'Police have arrested
two girls aged 10 and 13
303
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:39,880
on suspicion of the murder
of five-year-old Conor Reid.
304
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,760
Conor was found dead
at the Kelvedon Estate last week.
305
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,680
It's believed the girls were moved
to a secret location last night
306
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,240
after the police station came under
siege from angry protestors.'
307
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:52,360
after the police station came under
siege from angry protestors.'
308
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,920
This is getting out of hand,
and we haven't even charged them.
309
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,920
Little girl killers -
the public can't stomach it.
310
00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:01,800
It's understandable.
311
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,600
Kids killing kids.
312
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,920
This is as bad as it gets.
313
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,160
What are the girls saying?
314
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,320
They blame each other.
What about the forensics?
315
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,840
The girls were tested too late
for contact trace evidence.
316
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,960
We're waiting on the analysis
of their clothing.
317
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,240
Till then there's no way to know
who is telling the truth?
318
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,200
The police believe
Paige is telling the truth,
319
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,240
that Rose is the killer.
She cooperated fully.
320
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,920
She'll give evidence
against Rose in court.
321
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,720
What does her brief want in return?
A Section 73 agreement.
322
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,160
Paige has given a statement
323
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:47,440
detailing exactly how Rose Shaw
killed Conor Reid.
324
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,440
She's a witness, nothing more.
325
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,880
Your client carved her initial
into the dead boy's skin.
326
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,920
She colluded with her friend
to concoct a story.
327
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,120
Under duress from Rose Shaw.
Come on, Luke!
328
00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:04,640
Rose is three years younger
than your client.
329
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,080
And bright as a button.
Paige has learning difficulties.
330
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:14,160
The police believe Rose Shaw
acted alone. A jury will, too.
331
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,640
Paige pleads guilty
to assisting an offender.
332
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:24,120
She's practically handing you
Rose Shaw with bells on.
333
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:24,240
She's practically handing you
Rose Shaw with bells on.
334
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,840
The least you can do
is drop the charges.
335
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,280
That's the deal.
Take it or leave it.
336
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,960
We sign that agreement,
there's no going back.
337
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,920
Paige gets immunity except
on assisting an offender.
338
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,320
OK. Get the papers signed.
339
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,200
But we charge Rose with murder.
340
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,160
Who's her brief?
341
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,680
You so don't want to know.
342
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,320
Come on. How bad can it be?
343
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,560
There he is, Balls of Steel.
344
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,640
Kim.
You don't call. You don't write.
345
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,360
You didn't seriously expect
any deals?
346
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:05,680
You did get my email? Don't tell me
it's still floating in cyberspace.
347
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:05,800
You did get my email? Don't tell me
it's still floating in cyberspace.
348
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,600
I told our new clerk when we need
to disclose something to the Crown
349
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,320
now means now.
What are you disclosing?
350
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,000
I've brought you a spare copy
just in case.
351
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,280
Deep breaths.
352
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,960
Rose Shaw is ten years old.
353
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,560
She played no part
in this horrific crime,
354
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,400
and is devastated to learn
her best friend says otherwise.
355
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,760
I ask you to release this poor child
into her mother's care.
356
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,040
Miss Sharkey, much as it irks me
to have to consider
357
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,320
locking up a ten-year-old,
Paige Ward has your client
358
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,080
choking a boy to death
with her bare hands.
359
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,120
I simply cannot ignore
such a statement.
360
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:07,040
Indeed you cannot, My Lord,
were said statement taken legally.
361
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,640
However...I suggest
that is not the case,
362
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,360
and hereby apply to have
Paige Ward's interview excluded.
363
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:19,000
I request an immediate adjournment.
The Crown have not been informed of any such application.
364
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:19,240
I request an immediate adjournment.
The Crown have not been informed of any such application.
365
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:24,480
And yet Miss Phillips
appears to have a copy right there in front of her.
366
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:24,840
And yet Miss Phillips
appears to have a copy right there in front of her.
367
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,840
Because you handed it over
five minutes ago.
368
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,880
Either it was disclosed
or it was not, Mr Steel.
369
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,280
Continue, Ms Sharkey.
370
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,520
At her interview, Paige was not
accompanied by a solicitor
371
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,880
or an appropriate adult.
372
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,280
She was accompanied by her mother
who refused legal representation.
373
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,560
A woman with
an IQ below a 12-year-old's.
374
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,040
Unlike their morals,
which my colleague shares.
375
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,880
Miss Sharkey, Mr Steel,
my chambers now, please.
376
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,480
After meeting Paige's mother
I had her IQ tested.
377
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,680
We also found she has learning
difficulties and mild autism.
378
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,320
There wasn't time
to second-guess her IQ.
379
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,240
The police had act quickly
to gather evidence.
380
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,840
They coerced a 13-year old girl into
saying what they wanted to hear.
381
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:20,240
They bribed her with a meal,
and chatted about her hobbies.
382
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:20,400
They bribed her with a meal,
and chatted about her hobbies.
383
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,040
The officer was creating
a bond of trust.
384
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,440
They assumed the mother would
intervene if she was unhappy.
385
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,400
She wouldn't have intervened if
DS Devlin had danced the fandango.
386
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,800
The only one making
a song and dance is you.
387
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,760
What have you got for your finale -
Enough!
388
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,680
The whole point
of an appropriate adult
389
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,960
is to safeguard the rights and
welfare of young people in custody.
390
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,840
I intend to play this one
with a straight bat.
391
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,000
I'm granting
Ms Sharkey's application
392
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,920
to exclude the statement.
393
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,560
That statement
put Rose's hands round Conor's neck.
394
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:06,400
The Section 73 based on it,
now we can't even use it!
395
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,320
You must have realised Tina Ward
wasn't an appropriate adult.
396
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,520
Do I look like Derren Brown?
397
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,120
She came across
like half the adults we meet.
398
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:17,800
We don't deal with Mensa candidates.
399
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,600
Any other judge would have thrown
Sharkey out of court. Blame Justice Pedotti.
400
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:22,640
Any other judge would have thrown
Sharkey out of court. Blame Justice Pedotti.
401
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,280
Do we have a case
without that statement?
402
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:31,720
Please tell me forensics
will confirm Rose's guilt.
403
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,000
Without a doubt. Conor's DNA will
be all over Rose Shaw's clothing.
404
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,480
Let's get this over with, then.
405
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:47,400
We represent Conor,
which means we represent you.
406
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:52,400
We're certain the forensic analysis
of the girl's clothing
407
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,040
will give us the evidence we need
to put Rose behind bars for a long time.
408
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,200
She'll go to prison?
409
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,120
Initially she'll remain
in secure local authority care.
410
00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:05,960
When she's old enough she'll go
to a young offenders' institution.
411
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,160
Then an adult prison.
412
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,480
Her whole childhood. She won't be
released until her early 20s.
413
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,400
I saw this woman
on the news last night.
414
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,160
She said Rose Shaw was Satan reborn,
415
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,640
that they should bring back hanging
just for her.
416
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,520
I've never heard so much hate
in someone's voice.
417
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:32,160
Public feeling is very strong.
418
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,920
All these flowers on the estate,
419
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,320
sack loads of cards every day
like they all knew him.
420
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,200
All of them out there
feeding off my boy's death.
421
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,920
Then it takes over their lives.
422
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:48,840
It's like they need it.
423
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,400
The funny thing is all I want...
424
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,200
..all I need is to let it go.
425
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,720
The trial can help you do that.
426
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,640
Sending her to prison won't help me.
427
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,000
It won't bring my boy back.
428
00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,360
Most victims' families find
it gives them a sense of closure.
429
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:17,400
Closure? This ain't closure.
430
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,920
This is revenge.
431
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,520
No, that little girl
don't deserve it.
432
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,480
She's been through enough.
433
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,000
We live on the same estate.
I know what goes on in there.
434
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,920
She broke the law
in the most terrible way.
435
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,800
She's a child.
436
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,160
Want to hide her behind a ten-foot
wall so no-one has to look at her?
437
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,920
No-one has to ask her who's really
responsible for Conor's death?
438
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:47,000
No-one has to ask her who's really
responsible for Conor's death?
439
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,920
No.
440
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,480
No, no. It's too easy.
441
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,600
Prosecuting kids is never easy.
442
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,600
My Conor, he used to...
443
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,200
he liked to draw them pictures,
444
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,280
the ones where you put
the paint through straws.
445
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,760
He loved dogs.
446
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,520
That's how I wanna remember him.
447
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,200
My happy little boy.
448
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,080
I don't want
my memories clouded by hate.
449
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:29,120
Would you want your son brought up
in a world with no hope?
450
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,000
You can't save Conor.
451
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,040
But you can save her.
452
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,440
Yeah, you can give
Rosie Shaw a life.
453
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,320
You can forgive her?
454
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:49,360
I hate what she did
455
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,000
with every bone in my body, but...
456
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,240
..but I'm a mum.
457
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,360
I can't hate a child.
458
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,960
You say you represent me,
459
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,720
then this is what you do.
460
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,600
You make Conor's life
mean something.
461
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,360
You find out why she did it,
and you get that little girl help.
462
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,080
We have to help her.
463
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,680
We can't just drop a murder charge.
464
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,840
The DPP will have your balls
and mine. Not just the DPP.
465
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,800
The Attorney General
wants Rose convicted of murder.
466
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:43,280
So that's it. Our hands are tied.
467
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,320
Not on my watch.
468
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,200
You heard what Mrs Reid wants.
469
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,040
What do we do?
470
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,000
My granddaughter is the same age.
471
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:59,160
She spends her time riding ponies
and making daisy chains.
472
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,000
I want to know
what makes a girl of ten
473
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,400
put her hands round a child's neck,
474
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,560
and squeeze the life out of him.
475
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:15,040
Rose, did you worry what your mum
was doing with these men?
476
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:20,960
My mum says that psychiatrists
mess up your brain waves.
477
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,640
Is that what you're gonna do to me?
478
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,840
Dr Marsh believes
the abuse changed the physiology of Rose's nervous system,
479
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:29,400
Dr Marsh believes
the abuse changed the physiology of Rose's nervous system,
480
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,280
which means her responsibility
was diminished at the killing.
481
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,080
We offer Sharkey a deal, then,
482
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,160
get Rose the help she needs.
483
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,760
The police just called.
Forensics are in.
484
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,720
Are you sure?
Forensics don't lie. Kids do.
485
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,920
But everyone was so certain.
486
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,680
There are 148 microscopic spots
of blood on the front of her shirt.
487
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,640
Which means that when the boy died,
488
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,800
the one with her hands
around his throat was Paige Ward.
489
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,800
We have a Section 73
signed and sealed.
490
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,640
You can't charge Paige
with anything further in this case.
491
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,600
Your client had Conor's blood
all over her shirt.
492
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,560
Which means
that when Conor Reid died
493
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,000
the person in contact with him
was indeed Paige,
494
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,440
and not Rose Shaw.
495
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,480
It isn't true. It was Rose.
496
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,040
Must I remind you again, gentlemen,
497
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,680
my client isn't here
to be interrogated.
498
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,760
Paige, you trust me, don't you?
499
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,160
I need you to tell me the truth.
500
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,360
We can walk out of here right now.
501
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,560
It's not what you think.
You don't have to say another word.
502
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,720
I want to explain.
After she done it, Rose just left.
503
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,520
I picked Conor up,
504
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,880
but he made this noise,
like a cough sort of.
505
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,440
Why did you move him? I wanted
to take him home to his mum.
506
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,600
But then Rose come back
with the compass.
507
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,000
I swear I didn't hurt Conor.
508
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,080
I put the toys there
in case he got lonely.
509
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,000
The pathologist
has re-examined Conor's body.
510
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,320
He found pulmonary
interstitial emphysema -
511
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,880
a build up of pressure
in Conor's lungs
512
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,720
caused by blood
blocking the airways.
513
00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:30,080
It could have been released
when Paige lifted him up
514
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,160
or when she was choking him.
515
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,920
So much for forensics proving
which one did it.
516
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,240
Sharkey will have a field day
with this.
517
00:34:39,240 --> 00:34:41,000
Maybe not.
518
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,480
According to the forensic report,
519
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,800
there were seven curvilinear
abrasions on Conor's neck.
520
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,920
Three at the front
were made by Conor trying to prise his attacker's hands off.
521
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,640
Four at the back made by
his attacker choking him.
522
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,880
The report said
without finding Conor's skin
523
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,080
in the fingernail scrapings
524
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,520
there was no way to know
which girl made them.
525
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,240
But Paige's fingernails
are bitten to the quick.
526
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:08,640
The nail marks
on the back of Conor's neck.
527
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,200
Rose Shaw has a defect on the nail
of her left forefinger.
528
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,280
The same defect
can be seen in those marks.
529
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,680
148 spots of blood on a shirt
spell murder to a jury.
530
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,480
Four nail marks
spell a bit of rough play.
531
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,040
You should give juries
more credit, Kim.
532
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,880
Lucky for you we don't intend
to put this to a jury.
533
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,600
A deal?
I'll accept a manslaughter plea
534
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,760
due to diminished responsibility.
535
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,560
Rose gets a hospital order
with a Section 41 restriction.
536
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,920
You want to put her in hospital?
537
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,000
Don't you? Rose needs treatment.
538
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,560
Thanks, but no thanks.
539
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,520
I'm giving your client
a way out of a murder charge.
540
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,360
It's in Rose's best interests
to have someone try and fix her.
541
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,840
The child's a monster.
I doubt anyone could fix her.
542
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,920
You're only offering a deal
because you're worried I'll win.
543
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,880
Forget Rose. You just don't want
to give up your 15 minutes.
544
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,640
Cases like this come along
once in a lifetime.
545
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,160
They're career makers.
This isn't a short cut to silk!
546
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,920
It's a child's life.
Do calm down, James,
547
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,560
or you'll be comparing ulcers
with George.
548
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,080
The jury are going to see
a very pretty little girl
549
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,320
and hear how the Crown made a deal
with a teenager
550
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,040
who had the victim's blood
all over her shirt.
551
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:32,200
I know who I'd believe.
552
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,280
She's a killer.
553
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:39,400
When the jury see photographs
of a strangled five-year-old,
554
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,880
they'll want her in a prison cell.
555
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:46,360
The prison system can't provide
the treatment this girl needs.
556
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:46,960
The prison system can't provide
the treatment this girl needs.
557
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,280
Why the preoccupation
about treatment?
558
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,120
The public don't care about
treating killers. They ought to.
559
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,800
If we send her to hospital,
she will be released
560
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,880
only if and when
she's no longer a danger.
561
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,960
Justice Pedotti will make sure
she gets a minimum of 12 years.
562
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,720
There's no votes in being soft
on children who commit crimes.
563
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:10,680
I don't decide on the basis of what
gets the Home Secretary most votes.
564
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,080
Lock her away,
and you might as well kill her.
565
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:17,920
I'm not asking. As Director
of Public Prosecutions, I'm telling.
566
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,040
You try that girl for murder...
567
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:21,960
and you make sure she's convicted.
568
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,760
That woman was put on this earth
just to irritate my duodenum.
569
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,000
Whatever it takes,
you guarantee that that jury find
570
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,920
on manslaughter,
diminished responsibility,
571
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,520
and not murder. I want that girl
in a hospital, not a prison.
572
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,760
What about the DPP?
Screw the DPP?
573
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:47,760
I answer to Conor's mother
on this one.
574
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,560
Dr Guinott talks about kids being
like white cement.
575
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,360
Whatever falls on them
makes an impression.
576
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,800
In Rose's case,
her abusive upbringing
577
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,040
means she has a callous
lack of concern for others.
578
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:03,920
So she lashes out.
579
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,640
Is she in control of her actions?
580
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,800
I don't believe at the time of
the killing she intended to kill
581
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,240
or understood
the permanency of death.
582
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:16,440
Can her condition be treated?
It must be treated.
583
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,080
Rose needs intensive psychotherapy
584
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,240
and pharmaceutical treatment.
Thank you.
585
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:24,480
No further questions.
586
00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:30,040
Did you examine Paige Ward?
587
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,240
No. Because the Crown
didn't ask you to.
588
00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:39,000
That's right. Yet Rose told you
repeatedly Paige killed Conor.
589
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,560
That's right. Yet Rose told you
repeatedly Paige killed Conor.
590
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,760
Yes, but denial -
591
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,760
How are we to know
what Paige Ward's mental state was
592
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,680
when Conor's blood splashed all over
the front of her shirt
593
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,640
or when she carved her initial
into his stomach?
594
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,440
Does my learned friend assume
the witness has psychic powers?
595
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,680
How else could he answer
such questions?
596
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,720
Please reserve questions regarding
blood evidence
597
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:07,200
for the appropriate expert witness.
Apologies. No further questions.
598
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,400
"Evil from the day she was born."
599
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,920
How can a mother say that
about her own child?
600
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,280
Trial by tabloid,
just what we needed.
601
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,440
The trial's not even over
602
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,880
and she has the public baying
for her daughter's blood!
603
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,640
Along with the jury.
604
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,920
Any chance of them believing
her diminished responsibility, her mum just blew it.
605
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,360
Find a way to make
that jury see what we see.
606
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,560
I'm sorry. I don't know
what else we can do.
607
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,680
Make them see Conor Reid
is not the only victim.
608
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,400
Rose Shaw is an abused child.
She's a victim, too.
609
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,320
No comment.
610
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,400
Reporting restrictions exist
to protect your daughter.
611
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,360
You don't care about her welfare.
612
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,320
I don't know what you mean.
Thanks to your snivelling to the tabloids,
613
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,360
the whole country have already made
up their minds about her.
614
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,680
You shouldn't be talking to her.
615
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,120
Why not? She isn't a witness.
She should be.
616
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:09,600
If the jury saw her true colours,
they'd lock her up, not Rose.
617
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,760
So let's call her.
618
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:24,920
Can you tell the court
how you make your living?
619
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:28,800
I ain't on trial here.
620
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,160
Can you answer the question, please?
621
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,000
I'm a masseur. You're a prostitute,
are you not?
622
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,120
We don't all have parents
to fund us through university.
623
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,560
Is Rose aware of what you do?
624
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,440
When the police came
to talk to Rose,
625
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,720
you were engaged in a sex act
while she was in the next room.
626
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:52,000
Plenty of mums
work from home these days.
627
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,560
Rose told Dr Marsh
she'd seen her mother working.
628
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,880
Doctors twist things. She'd also
seen sadistic pornographic films
629
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,520
which you watched with clients.
They turn her into a killer?
630
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,600
Did one DVD show a man passing out
having been manually asphyxiated
631
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:12,120
during sex, and another showed a man
taking pleasure in being cut?
632
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:12,240
during sex, and another showed a man
taking pleasure in being cut?
633
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:14,880
You can't prove she saw them.
Can you prove she didn't?
634
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,160
I done my best for her.
Were you doing your best for Rose
635
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,440
when you tried to give her to
a stranger when she was six weeks?
636
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:24,280
I was 16. It weren't easy
stuck on your own with a kid.
637
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,760
What about when you sold her cot
to fund your crystal meth habit?
638
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,200
I had a problem then. I owed money.
Rose don't go without now.
639
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,680
Because you work as a prostitute
in a room next door to hers?
640
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,320
She don't see nothing.
She doesn't hear it?
641
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,040
She doesn't deal with the fallout?
642
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,840
Like the time you were beaten
senseless by a client?
643
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,200
That only happened once.
How would you have protected Rose
644
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,480
if this client had decided
to turn his attentions to her?
645
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,160
He didn't.
Can you be sure of that?
646
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,600
You were unconscious
for quite some time.
647
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,600
It wasn't until your next client
turned up six hours later
648
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,920
that an ambulance was called.
Rose was OK.
649
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,280
Rose was four.
She thought you were dead.
650
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,840
But you don't really care
what happens to her. Not true.
651
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:12,320
You don't care that she's choking
a five-year-old boy so long as it doesn't interfere with your habit.
652
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:12,560
You don't care that she's choking
a five-year-old boy so long as it doesn't interfere with your habit.
653
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,640
You're making out I'm a bad mum.
654
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,320
I am shouting it loud and clear.
You are a terrible mum.
655
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,320
You haven't got the first idea
how to take care of your own child.
656
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,360
I didn't kill that kid.
You might as well have done.
657
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:29,760
You turned her into exactly
what she is, did you not?
658
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,040
You turned her into exactly
what she is, did you not?
659
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,600
No further questions, My Lord.
660
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:00,480
On the charge of murder,
how do you find?
661
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,360
Guilty.
662
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,840
Rose Shaw,
663
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,480
you have been found guilty
of murder.
664
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,280
You alone are responsible
for the death
665
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,480
of a defenceless five-year-old boy.
666
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,560
What you did to that child is
every parent's worst nightmare.
667
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,960
I've heard all I need
regarding your state of mind
668
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,680
and the circumstances
of your background,
669
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:46,440
and see no need to wait for
further reports before sentencing.
670
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:53,520
I hereby sentence you to be detained
at Her Majesty's pleasure
671
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,760
with a minimum term of 12 years.
672
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,920
Rose!
673
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,880
Mum! Mum, please!
674
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,560
Mum, please!
675
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,960
Rose!
676
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,440
Mum!
677
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,720
Will she serve the whole 12 years?
678
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:39,880
I don't know. Dr Marsh has agreed
to work with her in the secure unit.
679
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,640
When she's 15, rest assured
680
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,600
I will personally appeal
against her move to prison.
681
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:53,000
Conor used to sleep in my bed.
682
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:54,760
I never could settle him into a cot.
683
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:58,760
In my arms he'd sleep
ten hours straight.
684
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:03,920
I used to watch him half the night,
thinking how lucky I was.
685
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,680
I bet no-one ever looked
at Rose Shaw and felt lucky.
686
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,000
BOY: Thanks.
687
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:26,360
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