Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:10,518 --> 00:00:13,606
I want to be a jockey when I grow up, ya
I want to be a jockey when I grow up
2
00:00:13,726 --> 00:00:16,025
I'm down for Heathfield and
3
00:00:16,145 --> 00:00:17,319
South of Amena...
4
00:00:17,439 --> 00:00:19,431
we are going to Africa
5
00:00:20,021 --> 00:00:22,004
and trying to teach people
6
00:00:22,125 --> 00:00:23,877
I don't think you
want to go to university
7
00:00:23,996 --> 00:00:25,701
if you want to be an astronaut
8
00:00:25,820 --> 00:00:26,908
I'd like to
9
00:00:27,566 --> 00:00:30,307
find out all about
the moon and all that
10
00:00:39,433 --> 00:00:42,157
Is it important to fight? yes!
11
00:00:52,034 --> 00:00:55,093
I want to be a jockey when I grow up, ya
I want to be a jockey when I grow up
12
00:01:02,445 --> 00:01:05,941
Tony was already an apprentice at
Tommy Gosling's Racing Stables in Epsom
13
00:01:06,061 --> 00:01:07,589
when he left school at fifteen.
14
00:01:15,387 --> 00:01:16,983
this is a photo finish of
15
00:01:17,104 --> 00:01:18,278
when I rode at Newbury
16
00:01:18,398 --> 00:01:20,077
I'm the one with the white cap
17
00:01:20,196 --> 00:01:22,077
I was beaten a length
and a half for third
18
00:01:22,196 --> 00:01:23,594
and I had a photo finish
19
00:01:24,371 --> 00:01:27,097
so I took it out the box and
kept it as a souvenir
20
00:01:27,217 --> 00:01:29,599
What would you do if you don't
make it as a jockey?
21
00:01:29,719 --> 00:01:31,045
I don't know
22
00:01:31,700 --> 00:01:34,777
if I knew I couldn't be one
I'd get out of the game
23
00:01:35,903 --> 00:01:37,248
I wouldn't bother
24
00:01:37,601 --> 00:01:39,870
What do you think you would do then?
25
00:01:40,428 --> 00:01:41,568
learn taxis
26
00:01:42,983 --> 00:01:44,942
Tony didn't make it as a jockey.
27
00:01:45,270 --> 00:01:48,598
He had three races, wasn't placed
and gave it up.
28
00:01:48,937 --> 00:01:50,753
At 21 he was 'doing the knowledge'
21
29
00:01:50,872 --> 00:01:52,821
learning to be a London cabbie
30
00:01:53,383 --> 00:01:55,598
I will be a cab driver
and I know I will
31
00:01:55,717 --> 00:01:59,721
and I'm going to prove every person
who think I can't be a cab driver wrong
32
00:01:59,841 --> 00:02:02,770
and I'm going to get that
badge and put it right in their face
33
00:02:02,891 --> 00:02:04,784
just to tell them how
wrong they can be
34
00:02:04,904 --> 00:02:06,951
and how under estimated I am
35
00:02:07,070 --> 00:02:09,718
it's surprising who you pick-up,
you see..
36
00:02:10,096 --> 00:02:12,044
I once met Kojak, I picked him up
37
00:02:13,103 --> 00:02:15,961
and Warren Mitchell or
Alf Garnett, you know...
Alf Garnett
38
00:02:16,081 --> 00:02:19,406
and I said "oh Hello Warren, how are
you mate? good to see ya."
39
00:02:19,809 --> 00:02:22,909
so he ends up saying "I want to go
to Langan's Brasserie
40
00:02:23,029 --> 00:02:24,876
you know Stratton Street,
Langan's"
41
00:02:25,767 --> 00:02:29,129
so half way there I said listen,
I said "Warren, it wouldn't...
42
00:02:29,838 --> 00:02:31,710
I said "It wouldn't be you
if you don't sort of..
43
00:02:31,830 --> 00:02:34,095
come out with Alf you know,
I mean.. give us a..
Alf
44
00:02:34,215 --> 00:02:35,862
let's see how he's going you know"
45
00:02:36,111 --> 00:02:38,160
so straight away he's
brought Alf Garnett to life
Alf Garnett
46
00:02:38,279 --> 00:02:39,876
in the back of me cab
47
00:02:40,446 --> 00:02:41,308
so
48
00:02:41,807 --> 00:02:45,108
we are on the way to Langan's and all
I can hear is Alf Garnett
Alf Garnett
49
00:02:45,227 --> 00:02:47,561
"you know... it's the labour government"
50
00:02:48,356 --> 00:02:49,381
when we get there
51
00:02:49,717 --> 00:02:53,180
I said "thanks
Warren, terrific mate. 1.18
118
52
00:02:54,323 --> 00:02:56,309
so he gave me exactly 1.18
118
53
00:02:56,618 --> 00:03:00,231
listen, I said "I know you're
Alf Garnett and you're having trouble.."
Alf Garnett
54
00:03:00,652 --> 00:03:04,250
I said "but I want you to become
Warren Mitchell now..
55
00:03:04,370 --> 00:03:07,054
my tip is 20
odd pence or whatever..."
20
56
00:03:07,173 --> 00:03:08,299
he said "son..."
57
00:03:08,567 --> 00:03:10,035
as Alf Garnett still
Alf Garnett
58
00:03:10,154 --> 00:03:13,039
"you know Alf's doing bad
at the moment I can't afford it"
Alf
59
00:03:13,159 --> 00:03:14,964
and he walked away and like...
60
00:03:15,083 --> 00:03:17,133
he done me like a kipper
61
00:03:17,253 --> 00:03:19,781
What does it take to
be a good cabbie?
62
00:03:19,900 --> 00:03:22,439
I think myself, a
happy-go-lucky character
63
00:03:23,222 --> 00:03:24,063
and
64
00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,136
take as much as what any other person
couldn't take in a normal job because
65
00:03:28,257 --> 00:03:31,683
it's a big world out there and everyone
is a different character that I pick up
66
00:03:31,803 --> 00:03:34,904
their attitudes... some of them
like the city gents, the typical
67
00:03:35,023 --> 00:03:37,108
"Waterloo, driver
please, in five minutes"
68
00:03:37,228 --> 00:03:40,770
I sort of say "Hold on mate I'll get my
helicopter out of the boot."
69
00:03:40,890 --> 00:03:43,324
I love being a taxi driver
I like the outdoor life
70
00:03:43,443 --> 00:03:46,400
the independance, there's no one
to govern me or say
71
00:03:46,519 --> 00:03:48,284
"you've got to be
in at a certain time."
72
00:03:48,405 --> 00:03:51,159
sometimes on Saturday mornings
I go to the pictures
73
00:03:51,279 --> 00:03:55,078
sometimes with my friends
and sometimes with him
74
00:03:55,514 --> 00:03:57,196
you don't!
-I do!
75
00:03:57,669 --> 00:03:58,977
she don't
76
00:04:00,114 --> 00:04:01,543
I don't ever see ya!
77
00:04:04,340 --> 00:04:06,324
you go to different pictures
78
00:04:06,862 --> 00:04:08,812
Have you got a girlfriend?
-no
79
00:04:09,198 --> 00:04:11,266
Would you like to have a girlfriend?
80
00:04:11,719 --> 00:04:12,308
no
81
00:04:12,728 --> 00:04:14,658
do you understand 'the four F's?'
F
82
00:04:14,778 --> 00:04:16,560
find them, feed them
and forget them
83
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,600
for the other F I'll let you
use your own discrimination
Ffuck
84
00:04:19,721 --> 00:04:20,643
I mean...
85
00:04:20,762 --> 00:04:21,653
this one
86
00:04:21,956 --> 00:04:23,671
I tried the three F's
F
87
00:04:24,393 --> 00:04:25,651
but I couldn't forget her
88
00:04:25,771 --> 00:04:27,897
I used to work in a pub
89
00:04:28,493 --> 00:04:30,040
just on Friday nights
90
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,411
barmaids... barmaiding...
91
00:04:32,530 --> 00:04:33,469
and then
92
00:04:33,899 --> 00:04:37,446
and then from there one night
I went to a discotheque
93
00:04:37,732 --> 00:04:39,772
he was in the pub earlier on
94
00:04:39,892 --> 00:04:43,387
afterwards we went to a discotheque
and Tony was standing there
95
00:04:44,042 --> 00:04:46,346
and I just...
from there I just...
96
00:04:46,465 --> 00:04:47,505
that was it
97
00:04:49,955 --> 00:04:52,141
I couldn't get rid of him
98
00:04:56,242 --> 00:04:58,512
And why did you fall
in love with him?
99
00:04:58,631 --> 00:04:59,655
I don't know
100
00:05:00,306 --> 00:05:02,726
I don't know how you've
put up with me for so long
101
00:05:02,846 --> 00:05:05,483
sometimes I don't know
how I stand him
102
00:05:05,786 --> 00:05:10,005
but what is it that you love about...
- I like his personality
103
00:05:11,034 --> 00:05:14,464
it doesn't matter who it is
he don't change for nobody
104
00:05:14,583 --> 00:05:16,952
there's only one ambition really
I want a baby son
105
00:05:17,072 --> 00:05:19,810
if I see my baby son
that is my ambition fulfilled
106
00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,081
no one know that
only you now
107
00:05:32,261 --> 00:05:35,220
we've got two children
Nicky's six and a half
108
00:05:35,724 --> 00:05:37,974
Jodi's two and a half
nearly three
109
00:05:38,094 --> 00:05:40,361
and I'm having another one
in March
110
00:05:40,482 --> 00:05:43,135
Who looks after them?
Or, do you share it up?
111
00:05:43,255 --> 00:05:44,681
me basically, yeah
112
00:05:45,859 --> 00:05:48,048
he does take them out
quite a lot
113
00:05:48,168 --> 00:05:48,822
but
114
00:05:49,964 --> 00:05:52,525
telling offs and smacks
is all left to me
115
00:05:52,878 --> 00:05:54,223
I have to do all of that
116
00:05:54,344 --> 00:05:56,207
he don't like smacking them
117
00:05:56,712 --> 00:05:58,172
he don't like telling them off
118
00:05:58,293 --> 00:06:02,359
unless it's really.. really..
- anything serious then I would
119
00:06:03,670 --> 00:06:05,654
there you are...
see that baby one?
120
00:06:06,578 --> 00:06:08,577
So what advantages do
you think you've had over
121
00:06:08,696 --> 00:06:10,677
some of the other people we've filmed?
122
00:06:10,797 --> 00:06:15,142
well.. academically, probably they've
had more advantages over me
123
00:06:15,262 --> 00:06:18,521
either by the fact they've had
prep schools from a very early age
124
00:06:18,641 --> 00:06:23,516
they've benefited by it which, you know,
it tells obviously in this film
125
00:06:23,903 --> 00:06:28,273
but as far as, you know, the stability
and the backgrounds with their parents
126
00:06:29,179 --> 00:06:30,893
they've missed out on that
127
00:06:31,424 --> 00:06:33,909
Ton.. I don't like them near me
128
00:06:34,296 --> 00:06:35,943
- come on
- have a piece of bread each
129
00:06:36,063 --> 00:06:37,787
here Jodi..
130
00:06:37,906 --> 00:06:38,878
Jodi..
131
00:06:38,997 --> 00:06:41,787
being in a prep school they're missing
the love and the care of what every
132
00:06:41,907 --> 00:06:43,308
Eastender always gets
133
00:06:43,594 --> 00:06:46,302
you know, gives their children
each time they come home from work
134
00:06:46,422 --> 00:06:47,731
and the parents, you know
135
00:06:47,851 --> 00:06:50,908
sometimes obviously are not going to be
there cause they are away at prep school
136
00:06:51,029 --> 00:06:52,085
they're missing
137
00:06:52,205 --> 00:06:54,540
the love and affection
you know, what they are craving for
138
00:06:54,659 --> 00:06:57,616
when my kids are growing up, I want to
see the change in them, all the time
139
00:06:57,736 --> 00:07:00,753
so I have my own memories of when they
was a kid and how they were
140
00:07:00,873 --> 00:07:02,401
you know
and what they were like
141
00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,745
would everybody please sit round now
and get on with their work?
142
00:07:05,866 --> 00:07:08,453
I don't want to see any backs to me
143
00:07:09,478 --> 00:07:13,049
there shouldn't be anyone turning around
Tony, do you hear as well?
144
00:07:14,090 --> 00:07:16,628
get on with your work in front
145
00:07:17,369 --> 00:07:18,106
Tony!
146
00:07:19,198 --> 00:07:20,561
don't turn around again!
147
00:07:21,732 --> 00:07:25,564
education is just a thing to say
"my son is higher than him"
148
00:07:25,684 --> 00:07:28,052
or "my son had a better
background than him"
149
00:07:28,172 --> 00:07:29,011
I mean
150
00:07:30,170 --> 00:07:33,056
I'm as good or even better
than most of them people
151
00:07:33,594 --> 00:07:35,376
especially on this program
152
00:07:35,496 --> 00:07:36,283
I mean
153
00:07:36,822 --> 00:07:39,276
I'm one of the tailenders you'll think
oh the Eastend boy
154
00:07:39,396 --> 00:07:41,978
he ain't got a no good
education... but all of a sudden
155
00:07:42,098 --> 00:07:45,205
the Eastend boy's got a car, motorbike
and he goes to Spain every year
156
00:07:45,324 --> 00:07:46,366
and whatever
157
00:07:46,637 --> 00:07:48,351
and have I worked for it?
158
00:07:48,470 --> 00:07:49,973
no, I'm here
putting bets on
159
00:07:50,093 --> 00:07:51,638
and you think "how
does he do it?"
160
00:07:51,758 --> 00:07:54,101
and there's a boy,
who's he? and whatever
161
00:07:54,370 --> 00:07:58,118
he's studying to be a professor,
he's making up the things
162
00:07:58,239 --> 00:08:00,654
where's the education, there's
no education in this world
163
00:08:00,775 --> 00:08:03,482
it's just one big rat
race and you've got to
164
00:08:03,602 --> 00:08:06,155
kill your man next to you
to get in front of him
165
00:08:06,275 --> 00:08:08,661
education, when I said
"there's no education"
166
00:08:08,780 --> 00:08:11,821
yes, there is an education
I made a grave mistake in saying that
167
00:08:12,107 --> 00:08:16,253
but, I didn't mean to say there's
no education as far as academically
168
00:08:16,373 --> 00:08:17,447
yes, there is
169
00:08:17,801 --> 00:08:19,278
the area, the environment
170
00:08:19,397 --> 00:08:23,228
and education makes a person have
more opportunities in this world
171
00:08:23,582 --> 00:08:26,187
you know, I mean
that's.. that's obvious
172
00:08:27,845 --> 00:08:29,341
Let's talk about the kids.
173
00:08:29,461 --> 00:08:31,729
Do you want for them what
you had for yourself?
174
00:08:31,848 --> 00:08:33,478
In terms of schooling
and everything?
175
00:08:33,597 --> 00:08:38,369
you're talking about.. my childhood
five years old upwards to 7, 8, 9
59
176
00:08:38,725 --> 00:08:40,708
I had no money, my father had no money
177
00:08:40,827 --> 00:08:42,859
I wore my brother's
clothes for ten years
178
00:08:42,979 --> 00:08:46,121
these hand-me-down's are sort of
going on my arms with holes on them
179
00:08:46,241 --> 00:08:50,029
I've never had any opportunities to
better myself because I was a kid
180
00:08:50,149 --> 00:08:51,625
I never knew no better
181
00:08:51,928 --> 00:08:53,190
my mum and dad, you know
182
00:08:53,309 --> 00:08:55,779
my dad's got.. you know he's..
he couldn't work
183
00:08:55,898 --> 00:08:57,712
I'm not making a
violin story out of this
184
00:08:57,832 --> 00:08:59,578
I mean, that's the way it was?
185
00:08:59,698 --> 00:09:00,969
and I'm more stronger
186
00:09:01,088 --> 00:09:03,809
it happened that way
I mean, I'm a more stronger person
187
00:09:03,929 --> 00:09:05,591
I appreciate things more now
188
00:09:06,045 --> 00:09:08,323
and now I'm in a position
through my job
189
00:09:08,444 --> 00:09:12,253
you know, to give my kids the life
I never had like.. lovely clothes
190
00:09:12,373 --> 00:09:15,734
I go to holidays, you know,
I go to Portugal and I go to Spain
191
00:09:15,854 --> 00:09:17,778
hopefully America next year
192
00:09:18,248 --> 00:09:20,283
I mean, I want everything
193
00:09:20,403 --> 00:09:23,477
I never had to go, you know, on my kids
194
00:09:23,597 --> 00:09:24,704
to say, you know...
195
00:09:24,823 --> 00:09:28,134
let them know the benefits of the
nice life and what's it's all about
196
00:09:28,253 --> 00:09:32,360
they're precious!
"oh yes... oh yes... oh yes..."
197
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:33,587
they're nuts!
198
00:09:34,882 --> 00:09:37,018
you just have to touch them...
199
00:09:37,139 --> 00:09:40,532
yeah, they.. well, they can get
what they want, can't they?
200
00:09:41,087 --> 00:09:42,852
If you've got to work for it
201
00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,844
and it's them that can just
ask for money and get it
202
00:09:45,964 --> 00:09:47,517
and they can buy what they want
203
00:09:47,637 --> 00:09:50,258
I've learned through driving a cab
that people are individuals
204
00:09:50,378 --> 00:09:54,175
whatever they are.. upperclass or,
you know, middleclass or..
205
00:09:54,294 --> 00:09:56,478
as in my case, you know, an Eastender
206
00:09:56,597 --> 00:09:57,238
but
207
00:09:57,573 --> 00:10:00,886
I'm only glad, you know, that I've found
out the difference at an early age
208
00:10:01,005 --> 00:10:02,684
so i can judge people..
209
00:10:03,121 --> 00:10:05,407
on what they are
rather than who they are
210
00:10:05,929 --> 00:10:10,163
I'm not a politician so let them worry
about what's coming for the next day
211
00:10:10,482 --> 00:10:11,457
all I understand is
212
00:10:11,578 --> 00:10:16,196
dogs, prices, girls, knowledge,
roads, streets, squares and
213
00:10:16,315 --> 00:10:17,745
mum and dad and love
214
00:10:17,865 --> 00:10:20,655
that's all I understand that's
all I want to understand
215
00:10:22,976 --> 00:10:25,245
four and a half fifties,
four and a half fifties, four and
501
216
00:10:27,364 --> 00:10:31,229
At 21 he was earning a bit extra
as a bookie's runner at Hackney Wick.
21
217
00:10:32,607 --> 00:10:34,372
What do they call you here?
218
00:10:34,492 --> 00:10:36,474
I reckon a pest, or
something like that
219
00:10:36,593 --> 00:10:38,758
I don't mean to make
a nuisance of myself
220
00:10:38,877 --> 00:10:41,565
I mean if for other
patrons of the place
221
00:10:41,686 --> 00:10:44,894
they don't want to see a little
boy nipping between their feet
222
00:10:45,013 --> 00:10:47,433
running, putting a
bet on here for a face
223
00:10:47,552 --> 00:10:50,290
they don't understand, they think
"cor what's he doing is he mad?"
224
00:10:50,410 --> 00:10:53,199
I mean, I walk up there
and I order the teas
225
00:10:53,318 --> 00:10:55,451
there could be eight people
in front of me, I just go...
226
00:10:55,571 --> 00:10:58,672
"can I have a tea please.. tea pleas"
five times, "tea please.. tea please.."
227
00:10:58,792 --> 00:11:00,853
and they've gotta serve me
before them or get rid of me
228
00:11:00,973 --> 00:11:02,198
do you understand?
229
00:11:02,567 --> 00:11:04,106
so that's how you've got to do it
230
00:11:05,157 --> 00:11:06,544
I'm in two golf societies
231
00:11:06,663 --> 00:11:11,183
and each month, all of the members of
each society meet to play a game of golf
232
00:11:16,421 --> 00:11:18,606
and who are the
guys you play with?
233
00:11:18,727 --> 00:11:21,985
well, they are mostly publicans
or taxi drivers, you know
234
00:11:22,305 --> 00:11:22,978
and..
235
00:11:24,037 --> 00:11:26,373
we always end up, you know,
have a small bet
236
00:11:26,493 --> 00:11:29,635
Do you like the whole social side of it?
- only with my mates because
237
00:11:29,755 --> 00:11:33,216
on a golf course it becomes
the very.. snooty type, you know
238
00:11:33,335 --> 00:11:36,997
I mean, I understand they've got
to pay 400 a year for membership
400
239
00:11:37,486 --> 00:11:40,529
and they don't, you know, really want
anyone without any etiquitte
240
00:11:40,649 --> 00:11:44,366
to go on the golf course and ruin
their so called golf course, right?
241
00:11:44,487 --> 00:11:47,997
that's good..
great shot.. great shot..
242
00:11:48,637 --> 00:11:51,695
it does get a bit.. a pain sometimes
you know when
243
00:11:51,814 --> 00:11:55,016
when they keep saying "excuse me sir,
are you a member?"
244
00:11:55,136 --> 00:11:56,665
it comes out like that
245
00:11:56,784 --> 00:11:58,378
obviously etiquette's etiquette
246
00:11:58,498 --> 00:12:00,868
so you've got to conduct
yourself on these type of courses
247
00:12:00,988 --> 00:12:02,332
cause I think..
248
00:12:02,718 --> 00:12:06,147
you're a bit smaller
than most people
249
00:12:06,267 --> 00:12:07,879
you try and hit the ball hard
250
00:12:07,999 --> 00:12:10,267
you've got to just..
it'll get there
251
00:12:11,896 --> 00:12:13,945
where'd he go?
- I'm over here
252
00:12:15,314 --> 00:12:18,407
oh.. I missed that one
- unlucky.. keep hold of her
253
00:12:18,794 --> 00:12:20,879
- it's about an eight to the..
- too much mate.. too much
254
00:12:20,998 --> 00:12:23,635
no it ain't.. no it ain't.. no..
Ton.. hit an eight
255
00:12:24,326 --> 00:12:26,494
it's definitely an eight
- no that's too much club Ken
256
00:12:26,780 --> 00:12:29,386
- eight, hit an eight
- no.. no.. give us a nine mate
257
00:12:29,506 --> 00:12:33,068
nine, I think that's about right
- if you hit a nine, hit it to the right
258
00:12:38,699 --> 00:12:40,363
that's it.. that's it.. that's perfect..
259
00:12:43,574 --> 00:12:44,734
great shot
260
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:46,937
that's a great shot
261
00:12:47,260 --> 00:12:50,420
now I, am a young fella
and I've come to you
262
00:12:50,539 --> 00:12:53,762
I heard that you are a big successful
taxi driver - you want advice?
263
00:12:54,023 --> 00:12:54,814
- yes I...
264
00:12:54,933 --> 00:12:58,041
- I've been a film
extra now for six years
265
00:12:58,461 --> 00:13:00,495
It may not go no futher
I mean I'm just..
266
00:13:00,615 --> 00:13:01,890
having acting lessons..
267
00:13:02,010 --> 00:13:04,210
- you give me the benefit
of all of your experience
268
00:13:04,331 --> 00:13:06,590
alright? now you've got to feel
pretty big, bigger than me
269
00:13:06,709 --> 00:13:08,808
- just go?
- right there! here we go!
270
00:13:08,928 --> 00:13:11,212
- tell me son, what do you
want to be a cab driver for mate?
271
00:13:11,332 --> 00:13:13,411
- well, make a lot of money
you know, have a good life
272
00:13:13,531 --> 00:13:16,689
- son, look at me, I might be a
successful business man
273
00:13:16,809 --> 00:13:18,666
I might have the suit..
I might have the..
274
00:13:18,786 --> 00:13:21,455
all the holidays in Spain every year
but son it's hard work out there mate
275
00:13:21,575 --> 00:13:23,414
- you're not reaching me yet
- not getting to you
276
00:13:23,534 --> 00:13:27,068
- no, you're not getting to me, alright?
now be bigger, dominate me, alright?
277
00:13:27,188 --> 00:13:28,363
- son!
- yeah?
278
00:13:28,742 --> 00:13:31,364
son, it's a big world out
there and obviously I'm not..
279
00:13:31,484 --> 00:13:33,398
I can't get into it Warren
- alright, don't worry
280
00:13:33,519 --> 00:13:38,122
- when I was in The Sweeney and when I
was in Churchill: The Wilderness Years
The Sweeney1975
Churchill: The Wilderness Years1981
281
00:13:38,241 --> 00:13:40,556
I see the actors and
I thought, like you know
282
00:13:40,676 --> 00:13:42,753
it's not quite easy to act on stage
283
00:13:42,872 --> 00:13:46,046
cause it's you know, you need
time and dedication, it's very hard
284
00:13:46,167 --> 00:13:48,836
- son! tell me why do you
want to be a taxi driver!
285
00:13:48,955 --> 00:13:51,004
well you know
you've got success
286
00:13:51,124 --> 00:13:54,871
- don't let.. don't let looks go
impressing... I mean, listen
287
00:13:54,991 --> 00:13:57,056
- What excites you about acting?
288
00:13:57,176 --> 00:13:59,243
I like it, I mean, I think
of me self, you know
289
00:13:59,362 --> 00:14:02,224
I can do that, I still want to have a go
of it, I mean nothing for sort of
290
00:14:02,344 --> 00:14:04,056
fame or fortune or anything like that
291
00:14:04,176 --> 00:14:06,073
big hollywood and bright lights
292
00:14:06,194 --> 00:14:08,196
it's nothing like that,
just a side line
293
00:14:08,316 --> 00:14:11,861
So, what drives you then
through all of these various ambitions?
294
00:14:12,382 --> 00:14:14,316
it's a philosophy of not
keeping still, I mean..
295
00:14:14,435 --> 00:14:17,157
I'm a very overactive
type of person, I mean..
296
00:14:17,277 --> 00:14:19,243
I like to feel that I
don't want to keep still
297
00:14:19,362 --> 00:14:22,387
because life, you know, don't wait for
nobody so you've gotta cram it in
298
00:14:22,506 --> 00:14:24,480
as much as you can
before your days are numbered
299
00:14:24,599 --> 00:14:28,413
I mean, I may be a happy-go-lucky
type of fellow, which I am
300
00:14:28,533 --> 00:14:32,061
I'm an Eastender which the attitude is,
"allo' mate, alright, how are ya?"
301
00:14:32,181 --> 00:14:33,074
type of thing
302
00:14:33,195 --> 00:14:34,503
I wouldn't want to lose that
303
00:14:34,623 --> 00:14:36,336
How long are you
going to be a cab driver?
304
00:14:36,455 --> 00:14:38,336
Is this what you want to
do for the rest of your life?
305
00:14:38,456 --> 00:14:41,554
well, at the moment, I'm
very happy driving a cab
306
00:14:41,673 --> 00:14:42,462
but..
307
00:14:42,865 --> 00:14:45,722
my wife and I always considered
owing our own pub
308
00:14:46,363 --> 00:14:50,061
so obviously, I think, within
two or three years
309
00:14:50,684 --> 00:14:53,238
once I get financially
straightened out
310
00:14:53,878 --> 00:14:55,860
I'm going to have a go
at being a publican
311
00:14:55,981 --> 00:14:57,307
and if I don't like it
312
00:14:57,427 --> 00:15:00,233
say, if I give it a go for a
year or even six months
313
00:15:00,353 --> 00:15:02,216
if I don't like
being a publican
314
00:15:02,336 --> 00:15:06,687
I'm in a good position to say get rid
of the pub and go back to taxi driving
315
00:15:06,807 --> 00:15:09,753
I don't want to change
because if I change
316
00:15:09,874 --> 00:15:12,258
it proves that
Tony Walker was all fake
317
00:15:18,656 --> 00:15:19,968
fifty five to twenty, Boris
318
00:15:20,087 --> 00:15:22,036
- What are the best times for you?
319
00:15:23,212 --> 00:15:25,296
two, two really
the best..
320
00:15:25,734 --> 00:15:28,534
time is when the kids..
the first baby was born
321
00:15:29,060 --> 00:15:31,094
the next one, obviously, Jodi
322
00:15:32,439 --> 00:15:34,760
but my greatest fulfillment in life
323
00:15:35,852 --> 00:15:38,446
when I.. when I rode at Kempton
324
00:15:38,566 --> 00:15:40,447
in the same race as Lester Piggott
325
00:15:40,567 --> 00:15:44,127
I was a naive, wet behind
the ears, apprentice
326
00:15:44,247 --> 00:15:47,199
and the governor told me
"you've got to ride son"
327
00:15:47,319 --> 00:15:49,956
"Friday, you've got to lose
x-amount of weight"
328
00:15:50,076 --> 00:15:52,830
which I did.. eight pounds in four days
47.264
329
00:15:54,837 --> 00:15:57,981
and he says like, I go in there,
and they're all there, you know
330
00:15:58,100 --> 00:15:59,325
I'm part of it
331
00:15:59,796 --> 00:16:03,999
all my years, from seven, all my
ambition is fulfilled in one moment
332
00:16:04,118 --> 00:16:08,058
when the longfellow comes out
and I'm in with him, like in the same..
333
00:16:08,177 --> 00:16:10,563
the starter is calling
out to register the names
334
00:16:10,683 --> 00:16:15,001
and he'll sortta go like "Piggott,
draw, eight.. Walker, draw, sortta ten"
8 10
335
00:16:15,652 --> 00:16:19,519
and your idol, like, you're there
and the big man's there, I mean
336
00:16:20,612 --> 00:16:24,832
money in the whole world couldn't
buy that proudest day of my life
337
00:16:24,951 --> 00:16:28,360
which.. my ambition
fulfilled to the highest level
338
00:16:30,158 --> 00:16:30,813
and
339
00:16:31,452 --> 00:16:33,301
I eventually finished last
340
00:16:33,421 --> 00:16:36,815
tailed off obviously, but
it didn't make any difference to me
341
00:16:36,935 --> 00:16:39,858
just to be part of it,
be with the man himself
342
00:16:41,404 --> 00:16:45,003
couldn't buy it, that was the
proudest day of my whole life
343
00:16:46,489 --> 00:16:48,597
We are going to Africa...
344
00:16:49,370 --> 00:16:51,489
and trying to teach people...
345
00:16:51,608 --> 00:16:53,253
who are not civilized
346
00:16:53,908 --> 00:16:54,833
to be..
347
00:16:54,954 --> 00:16:56,144
more or less..
348
00:16:56,265 --> 00:16:57,053
good
349
00:16:57,174 --> 00:16:59,138
no, don't want to be
a missionary because
350
00:16:59,259 --> 00:17:01,611
I just can't talk
about it to people
351
00:17:02,047 --> 00:17:04,905
you know.. I am interested
in it myself but..
352
00:17:05,258 --> 00:17:07,241
I wouldn't be very good at it, at all..
353
00:17:07,948 --> 00:17:08,585
- Yes Sir!
354
00:17:09,141 --> 00:17:11,242
Mohan Ali
- Yes Sir!
355
00:17:11,362 --> 00:17:12,670
Kasim Mahir
- Yes Sir!
356
00:17:12,791 --> 00:17:13,931
Oscar Ali
- Yes Sir!
357
00:17:14,051 --> 00:17:16,251
Nasril - Yes Sir!
Sultan - Yes Sir!
358
00:17:17,260 --> 00:17:18,251
Abdul Khair
359
00:17:18,371 --> 00:17:20,707
- I was working at an
insurance company at the time
360
00:17:20,976 --> 00:17:24,422
and I decided to go into teaching
without any experience at all
361
00:17:24,541 --> 00:17:28,099
and I didn't think they'd allow somebody
to walk off the street into a classroom
362
00:17:28,100 --> 00:17:33,094
6 times 3 is 18, shared by 2 is 9,
plus 7 is 16, so you put a 16 there
6318 29 716 16
363
00:17:33,213 --> 00:17:36,477
- they were crying out for
most teachers, they interviewed me
364
00:17:36,597 --> 00:17:39,403
they phoned me up the next day
and said "would I like the job?"
365
00:17:39,523 --> 00:17:41,706
I said "yes,"
within five weeks..
366
00:17:42,009 --> 00:17:43,555
I was in a classroom
367
00:17:45,090 --> 00:17:48,755
they took one look at me and
thought it was christmas, I think
368
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,150
What's the most enjoyable
thing about teaching?
369
00:17:54,271 --> 00:17:57,436
just being a part of
the pupils advancement
370
00:17:57,555 --> 00:18:00,832
and learning and watching
them understand more
371
00:18:00,952 --> 00:18:02,631
and being more confident
372
00:18:02,750 --> 00:18:06,278
then, getting some enjoyment
and satisfaction from mathematics
373
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,381
After working in
the city for three years,
374
00:18:12,501 --> 00:18:16,551
Bruce Started teaching at Tony's
old school in the east end of London.
375
00:18:17,005 --> 00:18:21,123
He lives in a local council flat
within walking distance of the school.
376
00:18:22,136 --> 00:18:25,246
Holden, let's hear the
present tense of 'evasto'
377
00:18:26,137 --> 00:18:28,272
Evasto, evastas, evas..
378
00:18:30,138 --> 00:18:31,046
evastant
379
00:18:31,165 --> 00:18:34,327
evastamus, evastatis, evastant
380
00:18:34,447 --> 00:18:35,636
yes, speak up
381
00:18:35,755 --> 00:18:37,736
they don't, sort of, enforce..
382
00:18:38,543 --> 00:18:40,208
being upper class and..
383
00:18:40,881 --> 00:18:44,034
things like that..
at St. Paul's, you know they..
384
00:18:44,386 --> 00:18:47,900
suggest that you don't have long
hair and they do get it cut if..
385
00:18:48,020 --> 00:18:48,774
and..
386
00:18:49,547 --> 00:18:52,537
they teach you to be
reasonably well mannered
387
00:18:52,658 --> 00:18:55,614
but not too sniff on the poorer people
388
00:18:56,993 --> 00:19:01,691
When we filmed him at 21, Bruce was in
his last year at Oxford reading maths.
21
389
00:19:03,412 --> 00:19:06,774
and you can show
that this is irreducible
390
00:19:07,591 --> 00:19:11,525
then you do a transformation
on this polynomial, x=t+2
x=t+2
391
00:19:11,644 --> 00:19:15,693
- good, that's a nice way of doing it,
particularly using Eisenstein down here
392
00:19:15,814 --> 00:19:17,754
because his test is very powerful
- yes
393
00:19:23,330 --> 00:19:25,260
It's so different from
your own education
394
00:19:25,381 --> 00:19:27,985
where you're teaching now, why?
395
00:19:28,104 --> 00:19:31,920
general education is..
better for society, I think
396
00:19:32,375 --> 00:19:34,146
public schools are divisive
397
00:19:34,266 --> 00:19:36,366
that's with no statement
about my education
398
00:19:36,485 --> 00:19:38,972
my education was
academically excellent
399
00:19:39,091 --> 00:19:41,005
and I am very grateful for it
400
00:19:41,660 --> 00:19:45,069
I think there is a class society
and I think..
401
00:19:45,332 --> 00:19:46,659
public schools may..
402
00:19:47,652 --> 00:19:49,165
help its continuance
403
00:19:49,284 --> 00:19:51,030
- see you're in the lead, you see..
404
00:19:51,151 --> 00:19:55,703
because DSE Cabs have got profit of 2 pounds
and GOODB Cabs got no profit at all
DES2 GOODB
405
00:19:55,973 --> 00:19:57,822
okay? now can you
explain that just to Abdul
406
00:19:57,941 --> 00:20:00,797
because I want him to
understand what it is..
407
00:20:02,789 --> 00:20:04,351
I don't know whether..
408
00:20:04,471 --> 00:20:07,210
I said, "right, I must
do something which is
409
00:20:07,330 --> 00:20:10,303
against what I've been
brought up to do" or whatever...
410
00:20:10,423 --> 00:20:13,917
I don't know, I just found
something I find rewarding
411
00:20:14,237 --> 00:20:17,277
I didn't agree with the conservatives
about what they're doing with the
412
00:20:17,397 --> 00:20:20,421
black people, you know racial policy
413
00:20:22,219 --> 00:20:26,067
Do you have to defend immigration
to a lot of people in this area?
414
00:20:27,613 --> 00:20:29,278
yes, I think you do but
415
00:20:29,951 --> 00:20:33,263
those who say "there are too
many coming in" and so on
416
00:20:33,953 --> 00:20:38,474
I think, really are uneducated
about the whole question
417
00:20:39,264 --> 00:20:42,860
they should see the positive benefits
that they are having in this country
418
00:20:42,981 --> 00:20:46,213
and see that as a
result of all of this immigration
419
00:20:46,333 --> 00:20:48,339
they are not being denied opportunities
420
00:20:48,459 --> 00:20:52,053
it's not the fault of immigrants
that there is unemployment
421
00:20:53,442 --> 00:20:56,519
it's part of a political parties
responsibility is to explain that
422
00:20:56,638 --> 00:21:00,502
and show people what
is the more truthful way
423
00:21:00,622 --> 00:21:02,604
of representing the situation
424
00:21:03,569 --> 00:21:07,032
none of the parties
seem to agree with me
425
00:21:07,317 --> 00:21:10,277
and I think if I had voted
I'd have voted labour
426
00:21:10,579 --> 00:21:14,614
I am about the only
socialist in my village
427
00:21:15,620 --> 00:21:18,662
and I go
into the pub and..
428
00:21:19,672 --> 00:21:23,504
sort of expect to stand up
and defend all socialist policies
429
00:21:24,513 --> 00:21:26,756
sort of, this is
the village socialist
430
00:21:26,876 --> 00:21:29,631
no, village
idiot, sorry
431
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,960
I just see their lack
of opportunities for
432
00:21:35,447 --> 00:21:38,540
a lot of people, obviously,
unemployment is a great
433
00:21:39,161 --> 00:21:41,952
feature in many people's lives
and many family's lives
434
00:21:42,071 --> 00:21:42,893
and..
435
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,953
teaching children, sometimes
you wonder
436
00:21:46,072 --> 00:21:48,239
what's going
to happen to them?
437
00:21:49,197 --> 00:21:50,240
it seems to me that
438
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:53,366
the leader of the country at the moment
should be one of the most unpopular
439
00:21:53,486 --> 00:21:54,964
person's in the country
440
00:21:55,357 --> 00:21:58,198
and yet she gets away
with everything, um..
441
00:21:58,501 --> 00:22:02,369
she.. as far as I can see
has done lots of damage
442
00:22:04,695 --> 00:22:05,687
and yet..
443
00:22:06,260 --> 00:22:08,219
nobody, nobody can oppose her
444
00:22:08,339 --> 00:22:13,614
my heart's desire is to see my daddy
who is six thousand miles away
696
445
00:22:16,109 --> 00:22:19,338
and I can remember being happy there
I can remember..
446
00:22:19,875 --> 00:22:23,035
also being miserable because
I can remember crying
447
00:22:23,405 --> 00:22:24,363
- hold steady!
448
00:22:24,483 --> 00:22:27,758
you know, I always seemed to be beaten
on and I could never understand why
449
00:22:27,878 --> 00:22:31,113
Did it give you an overdeveloped
sense of authority?
450
00:22:31,232 --> 00:22:33,970
if you look at society in general, I've
always probably
451
00:22:34,090 --> 00:22:36,239
been on the side of authority
452
00:22:36,694 --> 00:22:39,131
and you know, it's
been, it's been..
453
00:22:42,002 --> 00:22:45,029
an education learning
that authority can be bad
454
00:22:45,482 --> 00:22:47,029
and.. can be corrupt
455
00:22:55,841 --> 00:23:00,011
well my girlfriend is in Africa
456
00:23:00,131 --> 00:23:04,024
and I won't... don't think I'll have
another chance of seeing her again
457
00:23:04,144 --> 00:23:05,958
Have you go a girlfriend?
458
00:23:06,078 --> 00:23:07,622
no.. not yet
459
00:23:08,462 --> 00:23:10,026
I'm sure it will come
460
00:23:10,345 --> 00:23:11,505
but not yet
461
00:23:11,626 --> 00:23:14,040
I think I would very much like to..
462
00:23:17,907 --> 00:23:21,269
become involved in a family like
my own family for a start
463
00:23:21,389 --> 00:23:25,951
that's a need I feel I ought to fulfill
and would like to fulfill
464
00:23:26,389 --> 00:23:27,818
and would do it well
465
00:23:27,937 --> 00:23:31,549
I mean, I do think a lot of people
think too much about it
466
00:23:32,955 --> 00:23:35,646
What happened
when you burnt your fingers?
467
00:23:41,126 --> 00:23:43,446
I'd rather not talk
about it really
468
00:23:44,781 --> 00:23:46,950
well no in fact I don't
really mean that
469
00:23:47,069 --> 00:23:49,304
I don't mean I don't
want to talk about it
470
00:23:49,423 --> 00:23:52,666
it's just I'd need quite a long
time to think about it really
471
00:23:52,934 --> 00:23:55,299
I think I possibly
get a little serious
472
00:23:56,946 --> 00:23:58,442
and uh..
473
00:23:59,232 --> 00:24:01,670
don't quite
understand the modern..
474
00:24:02,544 --> 00:24:03,048
sort of..
475
00:24:03,620 --> 00:24:06,004
way of behaving,
the modern manner..
476
00:24:06,661 --> 00:24:08,762
I think I'm a
little old fashioned
477
00:24:08,882 --> 00:24:11,182
at three o' clock I'm going to come
and pick you up from Arts
478
00:24:11,302 --> 00:24:12,796
you'll only have one art lesson
479
00:24:12,916 --> 00:24:15,000
so if you're art teacher
forgets at five to three
2:55
480
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,696
ask her to say we should be packing
away and I'll come and get you
481
00:24:17,816 --> 00:24:20,493
So there you were, you went to a
posh preparatory school
482
00:24:20,613 --> 00:24:22,752
and a major public school and to Oxford
483
00:24:22,872 --> 00:24:25,521
And now, you're in a
council flat teaching in this
484
00:24:25,845 --> 00:24:27,459
school in the Eastend of London.
485
00:24:27,579 --> 00:24:29,510
You don't feel any
sense of disappointment?
486
00:24:29,629 --> 00:24:34,436
no because what I am trying to do
at the moment and achieve is difficult
487
00:24:35,353 --> 00:24:38,763
It may not sound difficult in the
sense that you could sum up what I do
488
00:24:38,883 --> 00:24:39,941
quite simply
489
00:24:40,060 --> 00:24:43,371
But behind all of that,
it is very difficult and..
490
00:24:43,740 --> 00:24:47,740
I certainly find it
satisfying achieving successes
491
00:24:48,344 --> 00:24:49,941
there may come a time
492
00:24:50,395 --> 00:24:54,854
when I decide I can't do it and that's
not necessarily a weakness that's..
493
00:24:54,975 --> 00:24:58,317
that may be a strength that you realize
494
00:24:59,141 --> 00:25:00,872
you can't do it as
well as you would wish
495
00:25:00,992 --> 00:25:05,664
I think the most important thing in the
world is everyone should know about God
496
00:25:06,099 --> 00:25:07,697
It all springs from..
497
00:25:10,571 --> 00:25:12,636
having God and Christ I suppose
498
00:25:13,124 --> 00:25:16,620
that.. you try do that as
best as posttible and let that
499
00:25:16,739 --> 00:25:18,134
lead your actions in life
500
00:25:18,253 --> 00:25:22,588
Does it sadden you when you meet people
who don't believe in Christianity?
501
00:25:23,026 --> 00:25:26,210
yes, if they dismiss it
casually, if they dismiss it
502
00:25:26,554 --> 00:25:28,394
as just being something..
503
00:25:30,653 --> 00:25:33,652
"well we know about that,
we got a bit about that at school
504
00:25:33,773 --> 00:25:35,451
and it doesn't really mean very much"
505
00:25:35,571 --> 00:25:39,142
then it does sadden me because
it's much much more than that
506
00:25:40,046 --> 00:25:42,667
What is it about that's
important to you?
507
00:25:43,869 --> 00:25:45,735
well, the belief in..
508
00:25:46,356 --> 00:25:49,989
the belief in goodness
and in love as being two
509
00:25:51,946 --> 00:25:54,453
well.. great positive forces in that..
510
00:25:55,630 --> 00:25:57,075
you know people..
511
00:25:58,100 --> 00:26:01,413
well, just the simple belief
like a good act is never wasted
512
00:26:08,053 --> 00:26:10,608
certainly you can observe
somebody when they are seven
513
00:26:10,728 --> 00:26:14,273
and identify particular things which
maybe are then always with them..
514
00:26:14,393 --> 00:26:16,257
whatever else happen to them
515
00:26:16,946 --> 00:26:21,157
people possible say I am little to
innocent at times or naive
516
00:26:21,981 --> 00:26:24,671
I used to get worried
about this and think
517
00:26:24,957 --> 00:26:28,740
perhaps I ought not to
be taken in or deceived or..
518
00:26:29,108 --> 00:26:32,403
I'm not talking about love now, I'm
just talking about generally speaking
519
00:26:32,522 --> 00:26:33,385
but um..
520
00:26:35,806 --> 00:26:37,655
I feel that's a strength in a way
521
00:26:37,774 --> 00:26:40,362
if there are people who
are willing to trust
522
00:26:40,483 --> 00:26:41,253
then..
523
00:26:41,791 --> 00:26:43,506
we should be encouraged
524
00:26:45,026 --> 00:26:47,750
Tell me, do you
have any boyfriends Suzi?
525
00:26:48,919 --> 00:26:49,794
Ummm..
526
00:26:50,365 --> 00:26:52,634
yes
-Tell me about him?
527
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,635
well, he lives up in Scotland
and I think he's thirteen
13
528
00:27:00,201 --> 00:27:04,926
and I'm rather lonely up there
because he usually goes to school
529
00:27:05,715 --> 00:27:11,310
but we usually play till about half
past six when he comes home from school
530
00:27:11,902 --> 00:27:13,600
then we go in and then..
531
00:27:14,474 --> 00:27:16,290
he goes home to do his homework
532
00:27:16,410 --> 00:27:18,559
Have you got any boyfriends Suzi?
533
00:27:23,734 --> 00:27:28,055
What is your attitude towards
marriage? For your self?
534
00:27:32,485 --> 00:27:34,625
Well, I don't know I haven't given it a
lot of thought
535
00:27:34,744 --> 00:27:37,095
because I'm very very cynical about it
536
00:27:39,815 --> 00:27:42,370
but then, you know, you get a certain
amount of faith restored in it
537
00:27:42,491 --> 00:27:44,673
well, I mean, I've got friends who've
538
00:27:44,793 --> 00:27:48,305
and their parents are happily married
and so it does put faith back into you
539
00:27:48,424 --> 00:27:51,181
but me, myself,
I'm very cynical about it
540
00:27:52,577 --> 00:27:54,812
we were friends for about two years
541
00:27:55,467 --> 00:27:57,971
Rupert and Suzi were
married five year ago.
542
00:27:58,092 --> 00:28:03,115
and.. I think the nice thing was
that we knew each other very well before
543
00:28:03,789 --> 00:28:06,264
we knew quite a lot of
the faults of..
544
00:28:07,238 --> 00:28:08,215
each other
545
00:28:10,189 --> 00:28:11,819
which I think's very important
546
00:28:11,939 --> 00:28:15,628
I don't sort of sit down and think,
you know, analyze marriage
547
00:28:15,926 --> 00:28:18,339
it's not something I've had to
come up and think about
548
00:28:18,458 --> 00:28:20,231
or that I was going to get married
549
00:28:20,352 --> 00:28:22,140
and I have no desire to
at the moment
550
00:28:22,259 --> 00:28:24,661
I think.. twenty is far too young
20
551
00:28:25,855 --> 00:28:28,946
I suppose twenty-two
is considered quite young
22
552
00:28:29,769 --> 00:28:31,670
I felt it was the right time
553
00:28:32,107 --> 00:28:35,688
I don't see what I would have
gained by waiting another three years
554
00:28:35,807 --> 00:28:37,743
What gave you that feeling?
555
00:28:39,223 --> 00:28:41,778
I just felt I was
doing the right thing
556
00:28:41,897 --> 00:28:44,376
which as you said
was extraodinary when..
557
00:28:44,955 --> 00:28:48,149
only eighteen months
before I was very anti it
18
558
00:28:48,644 --> 00:28:52,309
I came to London when
I left school after Paris
559
00:28:53,745 --> 00:28:57,579
and at the moment I could never live
in the country I am happier down here
560
00:28:58,344 --> 00:29:01,636
the country is nice for four days
and you can go for healthy long walks
561
00:29:01,757 --> 00:29:04,661
but I Imean.. I could
never live up their now
562
00:29:05,165 --> 00:29:07,283
They live in a small village near Bath
563
00:29:07,402 --> 00:29:10,410
where Rupert is a
partner in a firm of solicitors.
564
00:29:10,846 --> 00:29:15,825
I had seven years up in London I suppose
it was fantastic but I just had enough
565
00:29:16,169 --> 00:29:20,072
it's a much slower way of life down
here and I'd had enough of the rat race
566
00:29:20,192 --> 00:29:23,216
when I get married I'd
like to have two children
567
00:29:23,335 --> 00:29:26,293
I'm not very children minded at the
moment
568
00:29:26,413 --> 00:29:28,595
and I don't know if I ever will be
569
00:29:30,104 --> 00:29:31,414
What do you think about them?
570
00:29:31,534 --> 00:29:33,348
well, I don't like babies
571
00:29:34,608 --> 00:29:36,206
What was the biggest shocks to you
572
00:29:36,325 --> 00:29:37,869
when you were suddenly confronted
573
00:29:37,990 --> 00:29:41,955
with a small baby that you
had to be responsible for?
574
00:29:42,074 --> 00:29:43,477
panic set in, I think
575
00:29:43,596 --> 00:29:46,115
that I wasn't going
to be able to cope
576
00:29:47,461 --> 00:29:51,594
Do you want a nanny to look after them?
Or, do you want to look after them?
577
00:29:51,714 --> 00:29:53,864
I want a nanny to look after them
578
00:29:54,419 --> 00:29:58,015
I felt that we'd taken the decision to
bring a child into this world
579
00:29:58,135 --> 00:30:01,999
and I feel that I wanted to bring
him up, not somebody else
580
00:30:02,118 --> 00:30:05,159
I thought it's my
responsibility to start him off
581
00:30:05,428 --> 00:30:09,310
whether that will make a difference
to how he turns out, I don't know
582
00:30:09,431 --> 00:30:11,162
I just felt I wanted to do it
583
00:30:11,281 --> 00:30:12,691
Is it everything you wanted?
584
00:30:12,810 --> 00:30:15,843
for the moment, yes
I mean, I don't think I'll have any more
585
00:30:15,963 --> 00:30:18,910
the reason, that I'll
get pleasure out of these two
586
00:30:19,031 --> 00:30:20,911
but I can't see me
going on and on and on
587
00:30:21,031 --> 00:30:22,803
with sort of four or five children
45
588
00:30:22,923 --> 00:30:26,770
I think I'd feel that I'd want to move
on and try and do something else
589
00:30:27,543 --> 00:30:33,226
when I leave this school I'm
down for Heathfield and South of Amena
590
00:30:33,808 --> 00:30:37,690
and then maybe I may want
to go to a university
591
00:30:37,810 --> 00:30:39,758
but I don't know which one yet
592
00:30:40,328 --> 00:30:41,572
I'd like to do..
593
00:30:42,749 --> 00:30:44,917
a course on typing
or something like that
594
00:30:45,037 --> 00:30:48,094
I left school when I was
sixteen and went to Paris
16
595
00:30:50,128 --> 00:30:52,785
went to secretarial
college and got a job
596
00:30:53,374 --> 00:30:56,669
What made you decide to
`leave school and go to Paris?
597
00:30:57,710 --> 00:31:01,454
I just wasn't interested in school
and just wanted to get away
598
00:31:03,169 --> 00:31:05,187
And why did you choose Paris?
599
00:31:07,074 --> 00:31:08,955
I don't know, it was my parents really
600
00:31:09,309 --> 00:31:13,562
now I've got to a stage in my life
where I've got to make my own decisions
601
00:31:16,002 --> 00:31:19,247
you've got to learn
to fend for yourself one day
602
00:31:25,229 --> 00:31:28,406
I went to prep school
boarding when I was nine
603
00:31:28,860 --> 00:31:32,020
Rupert went at eight
and the both of us hated it
604
00:31:32,969 --> 00:31:34,616
I hated my prep school
605
00:31:34,736 --> 00:31:38,096
I just feel it's too
young to send a child off
606
00:31:38,216 --> 00:31:41,694
and we both feel that we
would never send Thomas and Oliver off
607
00:31:42,278 --> 00:31:44,648
probably maybe until they're thirteen
13
608
00:31:46,380 --> 00:31:48,448
I think eight is much too young
8
609
00:31:49,288 --> 00:31:51,641
so we will definitely keep them at home
610
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,590
Do you still want to send them
in the private sector to school?
611
00:31:56,094 --> 00:31:57,540
I think we will, yes
612
00:31:58,179 --> 00:32:00,935
but.. as I said not
until they are thirteen
13
613
00:32:01,827 --> 00:32:05,786
Why do you choose the
private sector opposed to the state?
614
00:32:10,953 --> 00:32:13,347
I suppose it's what
we had, it's what we know
615
00:32:18,491 --> 00:32:22,004
I think both of us
probably were very sheltered
616
00:32:22,123 --> 00:32:25,468
it's only having been abroad
that you can appreciate more
617
00:32:25,587 --> 00:32:28,779
that people are very different
cultures are different
618
00:32:29,099 --> 00:32:33,269
but I think as I was growing up I
think probably I was far too sheltered
619
00:32:33,388 --> 00:32:36,219
What do you think
about making this program?
620
00:32:39,873 --> 00:32:43,420
I think it's just ridiculous, I
don't see any point in doing it
621
00:32:43,539 --> 00:32:47,791
I've been very lucky up to a certain
point but everyone has their bad times
622
00:32:48,497 --> 00:32:51,505
I'm really just beginning
and I'm really young and..
623
00:32:51,942 --> 00:32:54,579
and I'll probably have a lot worse
that what I've been through now
624
00:32:54,700 --> 00:32:56,586
when you're a child
you always think how nice
625
00:32:56,706 --> 00:32:59,326
it would be to be
grown up and independent..
626
00:32:59,805 --> 00:33:02,865
but there are times
when I wish I was three again
627
00:33:03,456 --> 00:33:06,614
It just seems a miracle to me that when
I last saw you at twenty one you were..
21
628
00:33:06,734 --> 00:33:11,407
nervous, you were chain smoking,
you were uptight and now you seem happy.
629
00:33:12,122 --> 00:33:15,455
What's happened to you
over these past seven years?
630
00:33:16,868 --> 00:33:18,163
I suppose Rupert
631
00:33:19,255 --> 00:33:21,086
I'll give you some credit
632
00:33:21,961 --> 00:33:23,559
I'm now chain smoking
633
00:33:27,151 --> 00:33:30,126
no, I didn't know where
I was going at twenty one
21
634
00:33:30,884 --> 00:33:35,556
I mean, I suppose I thought I was
reasonably happy at twenty one
635
00:33:36,063 --> 00:33:38,769
but I had no kind of direction, no..
636
00:33:39,577 --> 00:33:42,283
I obviously hadn't
found what I'd wanted
637
00:33:42,403 --> 00:33:44,435
I don't think most people
have at twenty one
21
638
00:33:44,554 --> 00:33:46,401
you're still very very young
639
00:33:48,698 --> 00:33:52,616
As a teenager Suzi spent her school
holidays on her father's estate
640
00:33:52,735 --> 00:33:53,875
in Scotland
641
00:33:54,817 --> 00:33:56,654
What sort of things do you do?
642
00:33:56,773 --> 00:33:59,850
ride, swim, play tennis, ping-pong
643
00:34:02,135 --> 00:34:03,665
I might play croquet
644
00:34:04,815 --> 00:34:06,090
things like that
645
00:34:07,771 --> 00:34:09,621
What about the social life?
646
00:34:12,411 --> 00:34:14,748
what in Perthshire? it's quite fun
647
00:34:15,726 --> 00:34:18,432
well with any child going
through their parents
648
00:34:18,552 --> 00:34:20,937
spitting up at age fourteen,
you're at a very vulnerable age
14
649
00:34:21,056 --> 00:34:23,374
age and it does cut you up but..
650
00:34:25,114 --> 00:34:27,434
nut you know,
you get over it, it's not..
651
00:34:27,555 --> 00:34:31,258
There's no point in them staying
together for me, because it was worse
652
00:34:31,378 --> 00:34:32,839
I mean, the rides...
653
00:34:33,596 --> 00:34:34,688
it's worse
654
00:34:35,058 --> 00:34:38,201
if two people can't live together
there's no point making themselves
655
00:34:38,958 --> 00:34:41,153
my father died three years ago
656
00:34:41,707 --> 00:34:46,061
it's very hard to describe to somebody
how you just take the loss
657
00:34:46,431 --> 00:34:50,583
It is terribly hard and even now I still
can't believe my father's not here
658
00:34:51,559 --> 00:34:56,181
it's still sinking in I think
even after two and a half years.
659
00:34:56,838 --> 00:34:58,233
he was off in Scotland
660
00:34:58,352 --> 00:35:01,645
It was in that very bad winter of '81
81
661
00:35:01,765 --> 00:35:05,164
and we were literally snowed in
and I couldn't get out
662
00:35:05,283 --> 00:35:08,445
and it was three weeks before
Thomas was born and..
663
00:35:09,201 --> 00:35:11,843
and I wasn't allowed to fly,
no airline would take me
664
00:35:11,963 --> 00:35:14,011
and the trains were
blocked from the snow
665
00:35:14,132 --> 00:35:16,029
and so I couldn't get there
666
00:35:17,223 --> 00:35:18,332
and I feel..
667
00:35:19,729 --> 00:35:22,637
I still feel guilty that
I didn't try and um..
668
00:35:23,445 --> 00:35:26,117
get myself out of here to go, but..
669
00:35:26,925 --> 00:35:29,309
you know, when you're
told you could endager a
670
00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:32,614
babies life, you have to
rather sit.. sit still
671
00:35:33,316 --> 00:35:37,307
the death of one of your close family is
probably something you don't ever
672
00:35:37,426 --> 00:35:39,610
get over and it's a different kind of
673
00:35:39,872 --> 00:35:41,804
problem than anything else
674
00:35:43,994 --> 00:35:46,415
and it is hard to come to terms with
675
00:35:46,935 --> 00:35:49,676
And it was really
last year that it sunk in
676
00:35:50,247 --> 00:35:52,534
that he really wasn't around anymore
677
00:35:52,938 --> 00:35:54,703
What do you want most out of life?
678
00:35:56,588 --> 00:35:59,328
to be happy, and get on with life
679
00:35:59,447 --> 00:36:02,320
I mean, I don't want to just sit back
and let it all whiz past
680
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,523
I mean, you don't know how long you've
got your life for
681
00:36:05,961 --> 00:36:08,045
you know, you could get run over
by a bus tomorrow
682
00:36:08,165 --> 00:36:10,550
so you've got to make the most of it
while you've got it
683
00:36:10,669 --> 00:36:13,912
Do you have any fears
for the future? For yourself?
684
00:36:17,090 --> 00:36:20,553
no, not so much for myself at all
685
00:36:21,714 --> 00:36:25,665
I feel if I was going to have fallen by
the wayside, I'd have done it by now
686
00:36:25,784 --> 00:36:27,699
I think probably I'm..
687
00:36:28,337 --> 00:36:30,690
too staid now to do that
688
00:36:33,347 --> 00:36:34,393
but maybe I'm wrong
689
00:36:36,476 --> 00:36:37,419
when I grow up
690
00:36:37,539 --> 00:36:39,065
I'd like to..
691
00:36:39,186 --> 00:36:42,361
find out all about the moon and all that
692
00:36:43,420 --> 00:36:47,835
At seven, Nick, a farmer's son was at a
one room village school in the Dales.
7
693
00:36:49,234 --> 00:36:51,226
I said I was interested
in physics and chemistry
694
00:36:51,347 --> 00:36:52,874
well, I'm not going to do that here
695
00:36:52,993 --> 00:36:55,799
At 14, he was going to
a Yorkshire boarding school,
14
696
00:36:55,919 --> 00:36:58,539
and at 21, was
reading physics at Oxford.
21
697
00:36:59,047 --> 00:37:00,880
- plug it in
- we'll give it a whirl
698
00:37:01,183 --> 00:37:02,813
So what career are you going to pursue?
699
00:37:02,933 --> 00:37:07,419
It depends on whether I'll be good
enough to do what I want to really do
700
00:37:08,412 --> 00:37:12,645
I would like, if I can,
to do research
701
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,038
He is now in America, an assistant
professor at the University of Wisconsin
702
00:37:24,158 --> 00:37:26,106
earning 30,000 dollars a year
3
703
00:37:28,695 --> 00:37:31,053
The gas in these experiments
is at a temperature
704
00:37:31,172 --> 00:37:32,817
comparable with that of the sun
705
00:37:32,937 --> 00:37:35,373
whereas in a power reactor it would be
maybe 10 times
706
00:37:35,493 --> 00:37:40,803
the temperature of the sun and we're
trying to induce that gas to fuse
707
00:37:41,837 --> 00:37:45,769
the fusion reaction gives off energy and
produces the power that would
708
00:37:45,889 --> 00:37:50,224
be turned into electrical energy
and sent out to the consumer
709
00:37:50,344 --> 00:37:51,582
how hot is it in there?
710
00:37:51,701 --> 00:37:54,775
in there, it's at
about ten million degrees
711
00:37:56,238 --> 00:37:58,155
Nick is a Nuclear Physicist.
712
00:37:58,275 --> 00:38:01,235
He's using these high
temperatures to fuse atoms.
713
00:38:01,355 --> 00:38:04,361
To try to produce energy
which is free from radioactivity.
714
00:38:04,481 --> 00:38:07,657
..has to be precisely coordinated
with the positive..
715
00:38:07,777 --> 00:38:12,667
I finished my degree in physics
and I went on to do a p.h.d.
716
00:38:13,592 --> 00:38:15,564
and having got the p.h.d.
717
00:38:16,018 --> 00:38:20,590
after it took two and a half years to
get that which was relatively quick
718
00:38:20,710 --> 00:38:22,238
I went to work at
719
00:38:22,843 --> 00:38:25,581
the United Kingdom Atomic Energy
Authorities Cullum Laboratory
720
00:38:25,701 --> 00:38:27,867
which is where
they do fusion research
721
00:38:27,987 --> 00:38:31,582
and that is what I've been
aiming to do throughout my p.h.d.
722
00:38:33,153 --> 00:38:34,010
but I..
723
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,531
but I found when I got there that I got
a big shock when I found that my
724
00:38:38,652 --> 00:38:41,608
standard of living
went down when I started work
725
00:38:41,945 --> 00:38:45,608
so when some people here offered
me a job I thought this might be
726
00:38:45,728 --> 00:38:49,019
a good opportunity to go somewhere else
where the research environment
727
00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:50,533
was a bit more vigorous
728
00:38:50,652 --> 00:38:55,439
so I came here in
November of 1982, into a blizzard
198211
729
00:38:56,982 --> 00:38:59,918
the university is substantially
different from an English university
730
00:39:00,039 --> 00:39:01,381
for several reasons
731
00:39:01,501 --> 00:39:02,836
it's a much bigger university
732
00:39:02,956 --> 00:39:05,930
Oxford had 10,000 people,
this has 40,000 people
733
00:39:15,953 --> 00:39:19,132
I guess the mixture of people who
come here are different
734
00:39:19,253 --> 00:39:22,528
a far bigger fraction of the population
go to university here
735
00:39:22,649 --> 00:39:27,490
Oxford is full of people who really are
trying to prove something, I suppose
736
00:39:27,610 --> 00:39:29,454
or be something
737
00:39:29,574 --> 00:39:33,018
a lot of people with social or
intellectual pretensions
738
00:39:33,139 --> 00:39:35,138
you're less aware
of that sort of thing here
739
00:39:35,257 --> 00:39:37,039
On the other hand, the American system
740
00:39:37,159 --> 00:39:40,619
is much more like
the comprehensive system
741
00:39:40,738 --> 00:39:43,997
England would set out to try and be;
it takes many more people
742
00:39:44,118 --> 00:39:46,799
and gets a huge section
of the population
743
00:39:46,919 --> 00:39:48,625
to a level where they're really
744
00:39:48,745 --> 00:39:52,811
technically very competent and can go
out and make Silicon Valley work
745
00:39:54,292 --> 00:39:56,040
Do you have a girlfriend?
746
00:40:00,008 --> 00:40:02,415
I don't want to answer that
747
00:40:02,835 --> 00:40:07,004
I don't want to answer
those kinds of questions
748
00:40:07,390 --> 00:40:09,955
I thought that one would come up
because when I was...
749
00:40:11,318 --> 00:40:14,662
when I was doing the other onensomebody
said "what do you think about girls?"
750
00:40:14,782 --> 00:40:18,495
I said, "I don't answer questions like
that" is that the reason you're asking?
751
00:40:18,614 --> 00:40:19,900
oh, I thought so
752
00:40:23,310 --> 00:40:27,446
the best answer would be to say that
I dont answer questions like that but..
753
00:40:27,566 --> 00:40:32,203
It's what I said when I was seven and
it's still the most sensible but I mean
7
754
00:40:32,824 --> 00:40:33,834
what about them?
755
00:40:33,953 --> 00:40:39,213
Nick was only 17 when I first met him
and I knew he was a nice person
17
756
00:40:40,021 --> 00:40:42,408
I find him very attractive, and..
757
00:40:44,233 --> 00:40:48,483
he uses intelligence in his relationship
with me which is very important
758
00:40:48,604 --> 00:40:50,753
a lot of people can be very bright..
759
00:40:50,873 --> 00:40:53,561
Nick and Jackie met while they
were students at Oxford
760
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,162
Jackie is doing a post-graduate
course in Business Studies
761
00:40:58,070 --> 00:41:00,945
What about you Nick?
Why did you marry Jackie?
762
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,030
Because she's..
763
00:41:03,467 --> 00:41:06,895
I find her attractive,
she's bright and independent and..
764
00:41:07,164 --> 00:41:09,668
If you've been somebody who..
765
00:41:10,795 --> 00:41:13,366
that had fixed ideas of
a woman's role in marriage
766
00:41:13,487 --> 00:41:17,182
that meant dinner on the
table at 6 every evening..
767
00:41:17,302 --> 00:41:19,327
didn't I tell you about that?
768
00:41:19,835 --> 00:41:23,785
I think we would've had problems
or if one of us had not wanted children
769
00:41:23,906 --> 00:41:24,860
when I grow up
770
00:41:24,979 --> 00:41:26,112
I'd like to..
771
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,340
find out all about the
moon and all that
772
00:41:29,693 --> 00:41:32,456
Where did you get
all this brain-power from?
773
00:41:33,347 --> 00:41:37,231
all this brain-power?
I don't know, did it just happen?
774
00:41:37,350 --> 00:41:39,432
all this brain-power..
that's a hard one to answer
775
00:41:39,552 --> 00:41:42,292
because first I have to accept that
I've got all this brain-power
776
00:41:42,412 --> 00:41:45,940
and that's not the sort of thing
I tend to go around saying
777
00:41:46,059 --> 00:41:51,726
but I've always been interested in,
from a very early age in..
778
00:41:53,206 --> 00:41:55,625
technical or scientific things
779
00:41:55,928 --> 00:42:01,238
when I was very young,
I had a picture-book about "the planets"
780
00:42:01,358 --> 00:42:04,533
and I thought this was wonderful
and I've just been..
781
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:10,010
interested in that sort of thing and
reading technical or scientific material
782
00:42:10,131 --> 00:42:11,575
for a long, long time
783
00:42:13,215 --> 00:42:16,695
I was the only child
my age in my village
784
00:42:16,815 --> 00:42:21,814
but I mangaged to spend my time
talking to adults who were around
785
00:42:22,268 --> 00:42:24,789
If one is wandering down a country lane
786
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:28,438
there is an awful lot to look at
in the world around you
787
00:42:28,557 --> 00:42:31,633
I remember looking
at various natural phenomena
788
00:42:31,752 --> 00:42:35,399
and being intrigued to try and
understand what made them tick
789
00:42:35,734 --> 00:42:40,460
one time I was particularly wrapped
up in how a particular cloud
790
00:42:40,580 --> 00:42:43,352
which was a very unusual shape
you know, and how did that work?
791
00:42:43,472 --> 00:42:47,665
and that was the sort of thing that
made me want to go further into
792
00:42:48,627 --> 00:42:49,938
natural sciences
793
00:42:50,274 --> 00:42:53,451
I think that if I'd been in a city I'd
probably would've had more interaction
794
00:42:53,571 --> 00:42:56,721
with people and
might have developed more..
795
00:42:57,814 --> 00:42:59,967
skills in dealing with other kids
796
00:43:00,086 --> 00:43:04,108
trying to become a reasonably
well-adjusted person was for me
797
00:43:05,015 --> 00:43:08,428
a bit of a struggle for awhile
I was given a fantastic opportunity
798
00:43:08,548 --> 00:43:11,904
when I went to university
and that really saved my bacon
799
00:43:12,024 --> 00:43:13,353
They'd like to..
800
00:43:13,772 --> 00:43:16,663
to come out for a holiday
in the country, we we like..
801
00:43:17,101 --> 00:43:19,806
when I'd like to have
a holiday in the town
802
00:43:20,093 --> 00:43:25,094
I've been to Leeds a couple of times
and.. I haven't been to Manchester
803
00:43:29,438 --> 00:43:31,740
I went to London with the other...
804
00:43:33,035 --> 00:43:35,842
when you did the first program
but that's the only time I've been..
805
00:43:44,324 --> 00:43:46,022
What attracts you about America?
806
00:43:46,141 --> 00:43:48,976
it's an exciting place to be,
there's a lot going on
807
00:43:49,379 --> 00:43:51,515
in terms of research, and other things
808
00:43:51,634 --> 00:43:54,373
but I really came
here to do research but..
809
00:43:54,492 --> 00:43:58,866
there are more opportunities and
just a general feeling of more going on
810
00:43:58,986 --> 00:44:00,996
than I had previously
811
00:44:01,116 --> 00:44:04,830
this place is less hidebound,
less bureaucratically tied down
812
00:44:05,624 --> 00:44:09,557
so it's much easier to go out
and get things done than in England
813
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,138
Do you get lonely here?
814
00:44:13,859 --> 00:44:15,859
You just tend to get
stuck here into your
815
00:44:15,978 --> 00:44:18,464
everyday routine
and you don't think about it
816
00:44:18,583 --> 00:44:22,868
when you call home,
then you realize how far away you are
817
00:44:22,988 --> 00:44:28,319
and now it seems acute because
our families are getting older
818
00:44:28,790 --> 00:44:31,344
even if you think in
terms of seeing them
819
00:44:32,202 --> 00:44:33,783
once every two years
820
00:44:34,747 --> 00:44:37,639
- that's not so many times, is it
- you're thinking only about ten times
821
00:44:37,759 --> 00:44:41,422
and that's awful, when you think
in those terms and realize...
822
00:44:41,542 --> 00:44:43,238
you really are in exile
823
00:44:44,433 --> 00:44:47,183
Does this put a pressure
on your relationship?
824
00:44:47,452 --> 00:44:49,403
no, I think it binds us together
825
00:44:49,522 --> 00:44:51,605
because we just have
one another over here
826
00:44:52,142 --> 00:44:54,941
In 21, some of the people were saying
21
827
00:44:55,061 --> 00:44:57,284
that they felt it was
immoral to emigrate
828
00:44:57,404 --> 00:44:58,632
immoral to leave.
829
00:44:59,247 --> 00:45:01,903
Do you have any feelings about that
since you're the one whose left?
830
00:45:02,542 --> 00:45:03,635
in my position
831
00:45:04,089 --> 00:45:07,751
I don't feel that
I'm letting England down
832
00:45:07,871 --> 00:45:11,231
because I don't think that England
particularly wanted me there
833
00:45:11,351 --> 00:45:13,046
doing what I was doing
834
00:45:13,165 --> 00:45:14,627
It had trained me marvelously
835
00:45:14,747 --> 00:45:17,150
I'd gone through a wonderful
educational system
836
00:45:17,269 --> 00:45:21,202
particularly Oxford was
a fantastic experience socically
837
00:45:21,321 --> 00:45:25,472
again, it was a great place to try
and develop emotionally
838
00:45:25,971 --> 00:45:29,551
and the academic standards there are
absolutely superb
839
00:45:29,922 --> 00:45:33,014
having trained in a
very academic fashion there
840
00:45:33,133 --> 00:45:37,415
and I then went out to try and do
something with all that training and
841
00:45:37,534 --> 00:45:40,753
found that society just wasn't terribly
interested in what I was trying to do
842
00:45:40,873 --> 00:45:44,160
so how could I feel that I'm betraying
a country when it doesn't want me to do
843
00:45:44,281 --> 00:45:46,507
to do what it's trained me to do?
844
00:45:48,575 --> 00:45:51,062
a really big issue
for us at the moment is
845
00:45:51,182 --> 00:45:55,147
how we're going to manage to have kids
and run two careers
846
00:45:55,465 --> 00:45:57,326
we don't want to
847
00:45:57,594 --> 00:46:01,107
miss out on the chance
of having a significant career,
848
00:46:01,227 --> 00:46:03,949
and we don't want to miss out
on the chance to have kids
849
00:46:04,069 --> 00:46:06,328
and to be involved with them
850
00:46:06,448 --> 00:46:09,068
but in those early formative years,
would you be happy for your children
851
00:46:09,188 --> 00:46:10,985
to be brought up by Jackie
852
00:46:11,104 --> 00:46:14,011
and Jackie not be able to give them
her full attention?
853
00:46:14,131 --> 00:46:18,139
well it's not.. that's putting it in a
rather strange way - it's not just me
854
00:46:18,260 --> 00:46:19,770
I.. this is...
855
00:46:19,890 --> 00:46:23,150
this is an area...I pay lip service to
the idea of equal shares on this as well
856
00:46:23,269 --> 00:46:26,259
and it remains to be seen if
I would actually live up to my intention
857
00:46:26,378 --> 00:46:28,504
there are several things, I think,
to be said here
858
00:46:28,624 --> 00:46:32,740
if we both work in academia,
that will make life much easier because
859
00:46:32,860 --> 00:46:37,324
as things are at the moment in the
States, if you have a computer at home
860
00:46:37,444 --> 00:46:41,292
you can come in to teach and to give
office hours to your students
861
00:46:41,412 --> 00:46:43,233
but you can work
862
00:46:43,553 --> 00:46:45,335
half of the day from home
863
00:46:45,822 --> 00:46:49,325
but I don't want to be the person
left behind while Nick flies in
864
00:46:49,445 --> 00:46:52,942
and shares an adult life
with his children
865
00:46:53,062 --> 00:46:55,653
at college and working,
I want to be there to
866
00:46:55,774 --> 00:46:56,747
Is she difficult?
867
00:46:56,866 --> 00:46:58,084
at times, yes
868
00:46:58,958 --> 00:47:02,572
whenever we have an argument she does
have a tendency to explode, I suppose
869
00:47:02,693 --> 00:47:06,122
to get, no to get really
miserable about it, and not..
870
00:47:06,243 --> 00:47:09,132
we've only been married four years
871
00:47:09,568 --> 00:47:11,015
anything could happen
872
00:47:11,135 --> 00:47:15,000
we could easily drift apart
there are so many pressures on people
873
00:47:15,588 --> 00:47:17,740
you just have to work at it
874
00:47:17,860 --> 00:47:21,271
and that's why it's important
that you have the same ideas
875
00:47:21,390 --> 00:47:23,692
that you want the same kind of life
876
00:47:24,113 --> 00:47:29,038
when we were in England,
our big source of arguments was money
877
00:47:29,157 --> 00:47:34,066
we were always squabbling about money
but that one, mercifully..
878
00:47:34,185 --> 00:47:36,623
it seems to have gone away pretty well,
we still disagree
879
00:47:36,743 --> 00:47:39,061
but it isn't a major source of rows
880
00:47:39,818 --> 00:47:43,029
A person with one million pounds
is not going to be much
881
00:47:43,583 --> 00:47:47,062
is not goint to be more unhappy
than a person with two million pounds
882
00:47:47,182 --> 00:47:49,196
I've never really been
aiming for money
883
00:47:49,317 --> 00:47:53,450
and that's curiously enough
why it was such a surprise that..
884
00:47:54,744 --> 00:47:58,856
it really surprised me when I found that
my standard of living mattered to me
885
00:47:58,976 --> 00:48:01,731
when I finished University and I found
that I couldn't afford
886
00:48:01,851 --> 00:48:05,211
what I'd been able understood I
could afford as a student
887
00:48:05,659 --> 00:48:07,962
It suddenly caught up with me
for the first time in my life
888
00:48:08,083 --> 00:48:10,215
that I really did care about how much
moneyI was getting
889
00:48:10,335 --> 00:48:12,602
and it didn't ever occur to me
that I would
890
00:48:12,722 --> 00:48:16,135
if I could change the world,
I'd change it into a diamond
891
00:48:16,656 --> 00:48:19,727
I'd like to think, I'm hoping
that I might do at some stage
892
00:48:19,847 --> 00:48:22,460
but I don't really think that I've done
anything that you can call
893
00:48:22,580 --> 00:48:24,326
a great success, I mean..
894
00:48:25,860 --> 00:48:29,995
It would seem really ridiculous to any
of my friends who watch this if I said
895
00:48:30,115 --> 00:48:32,432
"Christ, aren't I a
great success, look at me"
896
00:48:32,552 --> 00:48:36,535
When I first met you, I remember
I thought this was very idealistic
897
00:48:36,654 --> 00:48:38,030
but it was rather interesting
898
00:48:38,151 --> 00:48:39,644
when I asked you why
you're working on fusion
899
00:48:39,763 --> 00:48:41,796
you said that you
wanted to save the world
900
00:48:41,916 --> 00:48:44,071
It was a - I think that's
a bit embarrasing now
901
00:48:44,190 --> 00:48:46,777
but I don't think you'd feel
the same way about something that
902
00:48:46,898 --> 00:48:48,627
you didn't feel mattered
903
00:48:48,970 --> 00:48:49,827
that's right
904
00:48:49,947 --> 00:48:52,802
I picked it because I thought it really
was something that could be
905
00:48:52,922 --> 00:48:54,467
useful to people
906
00:48:54,810 --> 00:48:55,937
hopefully.. eventually..
907
00:49:19,926 --> 00:49:22,852
yes, it would be a
disappointment if I didn't..
908
00:49:23,775 --> 00:49:27,605
achieve very much
but I'm not worrying about it very much
909
00:49:28,176 --> 00:49:29,992
I've just got to go out
and make it happen
910
00:49:31,809 --> 00:49:33,691
I don't think you want
to go to university
911
00:49:33,811 --> 00:49:35,955
if you want to be an astronaut
912
00:49:36,075 --> 00:49:36,916
What?
913
00:49:37,857 --> 00:49:40,061
changed my mind
completely of course
914
00:49:40,181 --> 00:49:41,860
I think it was just the
915
00:49:42,548 --> 00:49:44,448
imagination a 7 year old has
7
916
00:49:44,568 --> 00:49:47,541
I might be living in
cloud cuckoo land, you know
917
00:49:48,797 --> 00:49:50,746
mum and dad might say, "no son"
918
00:49:51,032 --> 00:49:53,940
"that's not life,
you don't get a job you like"
919
00:49:54,950 --> 00:49:56,562
I'd like to think I could
920
00:49:56,683 --> 00:49:59,300
teachers are undervalued
921
00:49:59,905 --> 00:50:02,444
The whole system
is beginning to crumble
922
00:50:02,563 --> 00:50:05,754
you know, people outside
of it don't realize that, but it is
923
00:50:05,875 --> 00:50:07,095
and it's ..
924
00:50:07,463 --> 00:50:10,624
very disillusioning, you know,
you don't feel you're getting anywhere
925
00:50:10,744 --> 00:50:12,911
and of course the money as well
926
00:50:13,030 --> 00:50:16,205
which, whatever the papers
tell you, is abysmal
927
00:50:16,879 --> 00:50:19,232
Peter left his comprehensive
school in Liverpool
928
00:50:19,352 --> 00:50:22,444
and at 21 was studying
history at London University
21
929
00:50:22,563 --> 00:50:24,192
living in student digs
930
00:50:25,031 --> 00:50:26,207
the facts were
931
00:50:26,762 --> 00:50:30,880
that I'm particularly an intelligent
person, just reasonably, I suppose
932
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,519
I'm not a genius, I just went to college
933
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:35,584
on three reasonable A levels
A
934
00:50:36,189 --> 00:50:40,610
and just didn't do very much work for
three years, just did the bare minimum
935
00:50:40,730 --> 00:50:43,435
turned up to lectures,
wrote a few essays
936
00:50:43,938 --> 00:50:46,175
you get a degree for it
and it was a joke really
937
00:50:46,294 --> 00:50:50,932
once Carolyn Stepford said she
loved me
938
00:50:52,319 --> 00:50:56,642
and I'm going to marry her
when I grow up
939
00:50:57,162 --> 00:51:00,849
doesn't appeal to me at all
at the moment.. I've just gone twenty
20
940
00:51:01,588 --> 00:51:04,447
I haven't even been abroad
yet in my life so..
941
00:51:04,901 --> 00:51:07,521
there's no way I'm
going to get settled down
942
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,698
what was it about Peter
that you fell in love with?
943
00:51:12,682 --> 00:51:15,288
who said anything about
love? I don't..
944
00:51:17,462 --> 00:51:22,203
we have a very much the same
attitude, much the same general attitude
945
00:51:22,876 --> 00:51:26,047
to life, even though we're
very different in personality
946
00:51:26,166 --> 00:51:28,215
and in the things we like to do
947
00:51:29,527 --> 00:51:32,704
what is it about his
personality that attracted you?
948
00:51:33,698 --> 00:51:35,564
nothing really, I don't know..
949
00:51:36,606 --> 00:51:37,398
not..
950
00:51:37,969 --> 00:51:39,296
not a great deal
951
00:51:41,078 --> 00:51:43,210
Peter and Rachel have
been married four years
952
00:51:43,330 --> 00:51:45,581
and met at teacher training college
953
00:51:45,850 --> 00:51:47,649
they have just bought their first home
954
00:51:47,769 --> 00:51:50,481
a terraced house in
the center of Leicester
955
00:51:50,868 --> 00:51:52,498
they both have careers
956
00:51:52,818 --> 00:51:55,239
Peter teaches in a comprehensive school
957
00:51:55,358 --> 00:51:57,912
Rachel in a college of further education
958
00:51:58,031 --> 00:52:01,651
there are two risks, either for
one of us to follow the other around
959
00:52:02,542 --> 00:52:05,265
and therefore, perhaps become frustrated
960
00:52:05,836 --> 00:52:08,003
and dissatisfied that you didn't
961
00:52:08,122 --> 00:52:11,617
initially follow your own line,
or your own individual wants
962
00:52:12,677 --> 00:52:16,189
or there's the risk that you take that
you perhaps do have to part sometimes
963
00:52:16,309 --> 00:52:18,157
for jobs or whatever
964
00:52:18,276 --> 00:52:20,547
or, for what you particularly want to do
965
00:52:21,252 --> 00:52:24,447
I think the latter risk
is much more worth taking
966
00:52:25,699 --> 00:52:27,565
So you would be prepared to part?
967
00:52:27,685 --> 00:52:30,166
Yeah, I mean obviously
there is an element of compromise
968
00:52:30,286 --> 00:52:31,678
otherwise why get married?
969
00:52:31,798 --> 00:52:33,947
And do you have any plans for children?
970
00:52:34,068 --> 00:52:35,529
not at the moment, no
971
00:52:35,648 --> 00:52:38,789
but us, we haven't really
thought about it seriously
972
00:52:38,910 --> 00:52:40,050
Why's that?
973
00:52:40,864 --> 00:52:43,705
well, it's because we've
both got you know..
974
00:52:44,159 --> 00:52:48,093
things we'd still prefer to be doing
you know, if you have children..
975
00:52:48,213 --> 00:52:50,076
that immediatlely limits you
976
00:52:50,496 --> 00:52:51,822
I don't want to be limited yet
977
00:52:51,943 --> 00:52:55,992
if you choose to have a family, then you
also have a responsibility to children
978
00:52:56,112 --> 00:52:59,371
so you know...
it's a very difficult decision
979
00:53:01,170 --> 00:53:04,241
and although I think most liberated men
980
00:53:04,361 --> 00:53:06,713
would say that they too are
involved in that decision
981
00:53:06,833 --> 00:53:10,345
I think ultimately the responsibility
still comes down on the woman's head
982
00:53:10,465 --> 00:53:12,001
is Peter liberated?
983
00:53:13,227 --> 00:53:17,279
well I think a lot of men such as Peter
like to think they're liberated
984
00:53:17,399 --> 00:53:19,263
and I'm not in any way..
985
00:53:21,169 --> 00:53:22,431
saying that he's not
986
00:53:22,550 --> 00:53:25,002
but I think when it comes to the crunch
987
00:53:25,490 --> 00:53:26,952
you know, the absolute crunch...
988
00:53:27,072 --> 00:53:30,482
are you going to give up your job
to look after these children?
989
00:53:30,601 --> 00:53:32,946
then I think it more often than not
990
00:53:33,227 --> 00:53:36,489
that decision is made by the woman
rather than the man
991
00:53:38,051 --> 00:53:41,127
if you do have children,
would you want them educated
992
00:53:41,248 --> 00:53:43,363
in the way that you've been educated?
993
00:53:43,483 --> 00:53:44,775
I don't know how things have changed
994
00:53:44,895 --> 00:53:48,036
but basically you've still got this
emphasis on just getting through exams
995
00:53:48,157 --> 00:53:50,357
you know, which isn't really education
996
00:53:50,477 --> 00:53:54,635
cause most of the stuff you come
out of school with is absolutely useless
997
00:53:54,904 --> 00:53:56,283
you don't need it
998
00:53:56,402 --> 00:53:59,224
So how would you bring
them up? Educate them?
999
00:54:00,233 --> 00:54:02,990
well I don't know,
I suppose the easy answer is..
1000
00:54:03,110 --> 00:54:04,941
teach them more relevant things
1001
00:54:05,060 --> 00:54:06,521
get them to think for themselves
1002
00:54:06,641 --> 00:54:09,249
a bit more, which schools
don't do enough
1003
00:54:10,577 --> 00:54:14,427
Would you contemplate putting them
into the private sector of education?
1004
00:54:14,546 --> 00:54:15,469
no.. no
1005
00:54:16,209 --> 00:54:17,433
definitely not
1006
00:54:17,553 --> 00:54:18,223
Why?
1007
00:54:18,343 --> 00:54:21,534
well it's just the principle,
that's all there is to it.
1008
00:54:22,275 --> 00:54:23,854
What is the principle?
1009
00:54:23,975 --> 00:54:25,999
well, the principle is that
the private schools help
1010
00:54:26,119 --> 00:54:28,303
to keep the old class system going
1011
00:54:29,133 --> 00:54:31,554
they're part of it, they perpetuate it
1012
00:54:32,176 --> 00:54:34,520
so I'm certainly not
going to be involved in that
1013
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,176
when I came through school
at the end, perhaps of the..
1014
00:54:37,934 --> 00:54:40,904
well, lets say the ideals of
the 60's were still there
60
1015
00:54:41,025 --> 00:54:42,784
even though it was the 70's
70
1016
00:54:42,903 --> 00:54:45,036
and, that one was always led to believe
1017
00:54:45,156 --> 00:54:47,288
that there were golden opportunities
1018
00:54:47,408 --> 00:54:48,717
but of course there aren't
1019
00:54:49,373 --> 00:54:52,853
and very much now, people of my
generation are beginning to realize
1020
00:54:52,973 --> 00:54:56,148
what perhaps sixteen-year-olds
know, now at sixteen
16
1021
00:54:56,268 --> 00:54:59,309
I'm only just beginning
to see that now at 27
27
1022
00:55:00,184 --> 00:55:01,729
that in fact, you know, there aren't..
1023
00:55:01,850 --> 00:55:05,815
there's no such thing as sort of,
mobility, in any sense of the word
1024
00:55:05,935 --> 00:55:07,748
you know, it's very difficult to move up
1025
00:55:07,867 --> 00:55:12,270
do you think you've had as fair
opportunity as other people? - oh god no
1026
00:55:15,983 --> 00:55:17,042
In what way?
1027
00:55:18,572 --> 00:55:21,716
a lot of people have got it made
for them still, haven't they?
1028
00:55:21,836 --> 00:55:23,749
they've got it all lined up
1029
00:55:25,144 --> 00:55:25,834
how?
1030
00:55:27,667 --> 00:55:28,338
well..
1031
00:55:30,791 --> 00:55:32,018
like the public school..
1032
00:55:32,137 --> 00:55:34,607
I don't want to slag off people
who are in the program with me
1033
00:55:34,726 --> 00:55:36,590
not slag them off personally
1034
00:55:37,213 --> 00:55:39,646
but I mean, they had it set up
for them, didn't they?
1035
00:55:39,766 --> 00:55:42,438
it's a big problem, it caused
a lot of discussion I think
1036
00:55:42,557 --> 00:55:46,473
the workers do tend to take a few
liberties as regards to strikes
1037
00:55:46,592 --> 00:55:48,917
I would like to think that
democracy is here to stay
1038
00:55:49,038 --> 00:55:51,625
perhaps we haven't got a full democracy,
in fact, we problably haven't
1039
00:55:51,745 --> 00:55:52,600
it's a..
1040
00:55:53,373 --> 00:55:54,751
it's a pretty good system
1041
00:55:54,871 --> 00:55:57,508
are you surprised by the way
England is being governed?
1042
00:55:57,627 --> 00:56:01,457
I'm not surprised with the people
who govern us at the moment, no
1043
00:56:04,298 --> 00:56:06,777
- Why?
- I've even stopped being amazed
1044
00:56:07,274 --> 00:56:07,946
Why?
1045
00:56:08,256 --> 00:56:08,996
why?
1046
00:56:09,601 --> 00:56:10,289
well..
1047
00:56:10,609 --> 00:56:12,895
I don't want to get dragged into party
politics, you know
1048
00:56:13,016 --> 00:56:14,544
but basically it's the most..
1049
00:56:14,664 --> 00:56:18,336
incompetent, uncaring,
bloody.. we've ever had
1050
00:56:18,656 --> 00:56:22,205
Well if I can't be an astronaut,
I'd like to be
1051
00:56:22,325 --> 00:56:26,185
a Bradwell sergeant in the
police force, like my dad is
1052
00:56:26,633 --> 00:56:28,365
Do you want to be rich?
1053
00:56:29,508 --> 00:56:30,753
I wouldn't mind
1054
00:56:30,873 --> 00:56:33,157
I think once I can get myself going
1055
00:56:33,277 --> 00:56:35,242
I can work solid, yeah
1056
00:56:36,234 --> 00:56:37,679
but it's the motive
1057
00:56:37,799 --> 00:56:39,747
which is very hard to acquire
1058
00:56:40,473 --> 00:56:41,314
yeah..
1059
00:56:42,659 --> 00:56:43,869
I'm dead lazy
1060
00:56:45,752 --> 00:56:48,139
- yeah..
- And how did you deal with it?
1061
00:56:48,508 --> 00:56:49,433
not much
1062
00:56:51,552 --> 00:56:54,712
I'm just hard to get.. you know I'm not
the sort of person who can get
1063
00:56:55,603 --> 00:56:57,317
charged up very quickly
1064
00:56:57,957 --> 00:56:59,232
I am really lazy, you know
1065
00:56:59,352 --> 00:57:02,611
if I've got things to do I'd sooner make
a cup of tea first and read the paper
1066
00:57:02,731 --> 00:57:05,671
he always looks on the negative side
of life before he looks on the positive
1067
00:57:05,791 --> 00:57:07,254
whereas perhaps I'm the opposite
1068
00:57:07,373 --> 00:57:09,943
and that in a sense
is an area of conflict, yes
1069
00:57:10,064 --> 00:57:12,095
yeah, a clash of personalities
1070
00:57:12,902 --> 00:57:15,491
- yeah
- And how did you deal with that?
1071
00:57:16,943 --> 00:57:20,979
well, as you deal with all people
like that, you just give them a good..
1072
00:57:21,099 --> 00:57:22,761
kick and say, you know..
1073
00:57:23,248 --> 00:57:25,668
"wake up to it"
you know, that kind of thing
1074
00:57:26,308 --> 00:57:29,319
and do you see any areas of
conflict in the future for you?
1075
00:57:29,439 --> 00:57:30,765
In personality?
1076
00:57:31,706 --> 00:57:33,371
no.. no I don't
not really
1077
00:57:33,491 --> 00:57:36,869
because I think we both appreciate
each other's personalities,
1078
00:57:36,989 --> 00:57:39,702
in fact, it would be quite
dull to be exactly the same
1079
00:57:39,822 --> 00:57:41,956
I mean, there is something quite
1080
00:57:42,075 --> 00:57:43,956
exciting in being different
1081
00:57:44,695 --> 00:57:46,595
in that it isn't as predictable
1082
00:57:46,715 --> 00:57:49,654
you know, we're not along
the same track all the time
1083
00:57:49,775 --> 00:57:51,033
on the grass..
1084
00:57:52,226 --> 00:57:54,564
- we play international wrestling
- yeah
1085
00:57:54,684 --> 00:57:56,430
that's only in summertime though
1086
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:58,916
What have been for you the best times?
1087
00:58:03,427 --> 00:58:06,134
Tommy Smith scoring
the second goal in Rome
1088
00:58:06,468 --> 00:58:09,141
definitely.. one of the all-times
1089
00:58:10,082 --> 00:58:11,545
Which game was that?
1090
00:58:11,665 --> 00:58:13,260
"Which game was that?"
1091
00:58:14,184 --> 00:58:16,554
that was the European Cup final, 1977
1997
1092
00:58:20,774 --> 00:58:23,498
you know, after that it was all..
nothing else compares with it really
1093
00:58:23,618 --> 00:58:26,002
so, it's hard to think of anything else
1094
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,646
oh, I'll tell you what was another
good moment, I was um...
1095
00:58:30,767 --> 00:58:32,344
a group I played in..
1096
00:58:32,465 --> 00:58:35,674
were doing quite well...
a few occasions, that was good
1097
00:58:35,794 --> 00:58:36,969
Tell me about that.
1098
00:58:37,691 --> 00:58:40,887
It's just a local band,
I was in till fairly recently
1099
00:58:41,241 --> 00:58:44,670
you know, just played pubs and that,
but it was very enjoyable
1100
00:58:44,789 --> 00:58:47,343
You know, when you get
a good reaction from people
1101
00:58:47,462 --> 00:58:50,505
it's just one of the best
things you can have really
1102
00:58:50,624 --> 00:58:52,455
Do you ever get that in your work?
1103
00:58:52,576 --> 00:58:53,665
no, god no.
1104
00:58:55,179 --> 00:58:55,867
Why?
1105
00:58:56,842 --> 00:58:58,740
well, what are you asking?
1106
00:58:58,860 --> 00:59:01,110
If they applaud at the
end of each lesson or something?
1107
00:59:01,231 --> 00:59:04,052
No, just that excitement,
that communication
1108
00:59:04,355 --> 00:59:05,699
no.. no I don't
1109
00:59:12,353 --> 00:59:13,884
Do you think people change much?
1110
00:59:14,004 --> 00:59:15,683
Or, do you think we saw
1111
00:59:15,802 --> 00:59:17,877
you, the man
as a 7 year old boy?
7
1112
00:59:17,997 --> 00:59:22,131
I thought for awhile that was a
bit too simple, but I think it's true
1113
00:59:22,939 --> 00:59:25,764
because after that
your barriers begin to go up
1114
00:59:26,234 --> 00:59:29,417
you learn how to fend off things
like I was just saying
1115
00:59:29,537 --> 00:59:32,712
obviously when 7 seven you don't think
about it, you just come out with it
7
1116
00:59:33,999 --> 00:59:36,336
so yeah, to a point you
reflect that
1117
00:59:36,456 --> 00:59:39,295
So the boy at 7,
is in a sense, the real you?
7
1118
00:59:41,481 --> 00:59:43,615
Yeah, it's sort of..
1119
00:59:44,413 --> 00:59:47,001
the essential..
the essential Peter Davies
1120
00:59:55,135 --> 00:59:58,061
There were nine other children filmed
in 1963.
9
1121
00:59:58,615 --> 00:59:59,828
What of them?
1122
01:00:00,315 --> 01:00:05,241
If we did all um, love Geoffery,
and we all want to marry him -Yeah
1123
01:00:05,362 --> 01:00:08,301
I think I know the one that he'd
likes.. best..
1124
01:00:08,621 --> 01:00:09,542
and that's her
1125
01:00:09,661 --> 01:00:14,535
and I wasn't talking today
and Brown sent me out for nothing
1126
01:00:14,655 --> 01:00:19,140
I feel like rumbling when there'
already been a fight
1127
01:00:19,260 --> 01:00:23,321
If I can't be an astronaut,
I think I'll be a coach driver.
1128
01:00:23,441 --> 01:00:25,741
I read the Financial Times
1129
01:00:25,861 --> 01:00:27,372
What's happened to these children?
1130
01:00:27,492 --> 01:00:29,389
Where are they and what are they doing?
1131
01:00:29,509 --> 01:00:31,104
We'll see tomorrow night.
1132
01:01:17,458 --> 01:01:22,453
If someone comes up and starts fighting
then.. I think it serves them right
1133
01:01:22,572 --> 01:01:26,320
I know the one he likes.. best..
and it's her!
1134
01:01:26,809 --> 01:01:29,718
I think it's not a bad idea
to pay for school
1135
01:01:29,838 --> 01:01:31,400
I'm going to work in Woolworth's
1136
01:01:31,519 --> 01:01:35,074
I'd just walk around,
and see what I can find
1137
01:01:35,536 --> 01:01:37,538
I think I'll be a coach driver
1138
01:01:47,863 --> 01:01:49,292
I don't like um..
1139
01:01:49,411 --> 01:01:50,603
the big boys..
1140
01:01:50,906 --> 01:01:52,235
hitting us and..
1141
01:01:52,355 --> 01:01:56,187
and a prefect sending
us out.. out for nothing
1142
01:01:58,205 --> 01:02:00,542
I know I prefer to be alone really.
1143
01:02:01,282 --> 01:02:02,493
when I said that
1144
01:02:02,614 --> 01:02:05,305
I know.. I know
even now, I meant that
1145
01:02:05,424 --> 01:02:08,265
if someone dropped me out
in the Sahara desert
1146
01:02:08,385 --> 01:02:10,846
I probably would have been happy
more or less, if you get the point
1147
01:02:30,472 --> 01:02:33,011
say you had a wife
1148
01:02:33,130 --> 01:02:35,432
say, say, say..
1149
01:02:35,552 --> 01:02:38,325
say you had to eat
what they cooked you and..
1150
01:02:38,661 --> 01:02:41,604
and say I don't like greens,
well I don't.
1151
01:02:43,286 --> 01:02:44,848
and say, she said
1152
01:02:45,252 --> 01:02:47,757
"you have to eat, what you get"
1153
01:02:48,177 --> 01:02:52,130
well I don't like greens..
so she gives me greens.. and it..
1154
01:02:53,307 --> 01:02:54,219
and that's it..
1155
01:02:54,339 --> 01:02:57,348
I find it hard to express
emotion most of the time
1156
01:02:57,467 --> 01:02:59,651
though I'm getting on top of that
1157
01:03:00,005 --> 01:03:01,483
more now, you know?
1158
01:03:02,105 --> 01:03:06,156
Just the simple things to say to Susan,
I love you, something like that
1159
01:03:06,845 --> 01:03:09,031
I mean, I can tell you about it, but
1160
01:03:09,152 --> 01:03:11,689
I really haven't been able to
say it freely
1161
01:03:12,631 --> 01:03:14,060
to Sue, you know?
1162
01:03:14,952 --> 01:03:16,648
Has he proposed to you?
1163
01:03:18,431 --> 01:03:22,501
yeah, it was strange, we went off and
bought the engagement ring first
1164
01:03:22,936 --> 01:03:26,719
and then I said to him, you haven't
really proposed to me yet -tongue tied
1165
01:03:26,839 --> 01:03:29,461
as you can gather,
he's sort of very shy
1166
01:03:29,730 --> 01:03:32,505
What was it that you fell in love with?
What is it about him?
1167
01:03:32,625 --> 01:03:34,658
his helplessness, I suppose
1168
01:03:34,777 --> 01:03:36,809
there's the motherly instinct in me
1169
01:03:36,930 --> 01:03:38,912
to pick him up, and cuddle him..
1170
01:03:39,032 --> 01:03:42,897
he's also very good looking, I think,
but he doesn't agree with me
1171
01:03:43,536 --> 01:03:46,850
and in the summer,
he's got this cute little bum in shorts
1172
01:03:57,149 --> 01:03:59,806
Paul and Susan live in
Melbourne, Australia
1173
01:04:00,344 --> 01:04:02,765
Four years ago they sold everything
they had
1174
01:04:02,885 --> 01:04:07,659
bought an old Bedford van,
and went on a trip through Central
and Western Australia
1175
01:04:08,096 --> 01:04:11,683
it took 7 months,
and they travelled 15,000 miles
7 1500024000
1176
01:04:12,350 --> 01:04:14,148
I think it brought us closer together
1177
01:04:14,269 --> 01:04:18,428
because we really got to know each other
and relied on each other so much
1178
01:04:19,605 --> 01:04:24,801
I'd never been so relaxed in my life,
I felt a lot more confident in myself
1179
01:04:26,432 --> 01:04:27,996
just great fun really
1180
01:04:28,115 --> 01:04:31,307
no pressures or worries,
everything was forgotten
1181
01:04:35,259 --> 01:04:37,463
when we got to Perth,'
I was ready to fly home
1182
01:04:37,582 --> 01:04:40,570
being together so much, it was hard
1183
01:04:41,377 --> 01:04:44,219
but then we settled down and must
have settled down really well because
1184
01:04:44,339 --> 01:04:48,608
I got pregnant and everything so
something must have been going right
1185
01:04:52,897 --> 01:04:57,723
I think it's, now, why people like to
get back to nature and like to feel that
1186
01:04:58,060 --> 01:05:00,014
that they aren't
living in the 20th Century..
20
1187
01:05:00,134 --> 01:05:04,168
to me, it's just like an old dream that
you wish could come true, you know
1188
01:05:04,287 --> 01:05:07,850
living next to nature,
like pioneers type of thing
1189
01:05:08,943 --> 01:05:10,754
I love the place, you know
1190
01:05:11,241 --> 01:05:14,386
I find it hard to put into words really,
what it is
1191
01:05:15,143 --> 01:05:16,723
you've got the country
1192
01:05:17,195 --> 01:05:18,749
you've got bush, the outback
1193
01:05:18,869 --> 01:05:22,230
you can do more or less anything
you want, I think, here
1194
01:05:22,351 --> 01:05:25,341
whether you can do that
in England, I don't know
1195
01:05:25,611 --> 01:05:27,761
I think this is the part
we enjoyed the most
1196
01:05:27,881 --> 01:05:29,897
because we really went out
in the middle of nowhere
1197
01:05:30,017 --> 01:05:32,570
where we had to carry our own
petrol and our own water
1198
01:05:32,691 --> 01:05:35,658
to do us for the 3 or 4
days we were out that way
34
1199
01:05:36,112 --> 01:05:39,476
while we were up in Carnarvon,
we went and stayed on a sheep station
Carnavon
1200
01:05:39,595 --> 01:05:42,451
up there with our friend
from Melbourne, Bruce
1201
01:05:42,572 --> 01:05:47,042
and It was about a million acres, just
under a million acres, the sheep station
100
1202
01:05:47,732 --> 01:05:52,538
Bruce from the Yanrey Station, he got
ahold of sometails from the roo-shredder
Yanrey
1203
01:05:52,658 --> 01:05:55,306
so we could try kangaroo tail stew
1204
01:05:55,828 --> 01:05:57,389
yeah, it was a bit rough
1205
01:05:57,508 --> 01:06:00,275
we had nothing to throw it in.
- a bit sinewy
1206
01:06:02,041 --> 01:06:04,409
It gave us our own peace of mind
that we could settle down
1207
01:06:04,529 --> 01:06:09,084
and now have a family, that we had done
something, we hadn't just been nobodys
1208
01:06:09,205 --> 01:06:11,203
and lived in suburbia all our lives
1209
01:06:11,323 --> 01:06:13,757
we'd done something
that we were proud of that..
1210
01:06:13,877 --> 01:06:16,340
you know, we'd
accomplished on our own
1211
01:06:18,661 --> 01:06:20,342
Do you want this for the children?
1212
01:06:20,462 --> 01:06:21,940
I'd love it for the children
1213
01:06:22,061 --> 01:06:24,177
I was once taught when
I was at school that
1214
01:06:24,297 --> 01:06:26,615
travel could be the best education and
1215
01:06:26,735 --> 01:06:30,097
living in conditions where you
have to fend for yourself
1216
01:06:30,216 --> 01:06:32,652
and you have to use your
own initiative is very good and
1217
01:06:32,772 --> 01:06:34,115
I would like it
1218
01:06:34,518 --> 01:06:39,752
I was gonna be a policeman but I
thought how hard it would be to join in
1219
01:06:41,099 --> 01:06:45,258
I just haven't made up my mind yet,
I was gonna be a phys-ed teacher but
1220
01:06:45,527 --> 01:06:49,883
one of the teachers told me that
you had to get up into university
1221
01:06:53,078 --> 01:06:55,870
At 21, Paul was working as a junior
partner
21
1222
01:06:55,990 --> 01:06:58,157
for a firm of bricklayers
in Melbourne
1223
01:06:59,032 --> 01:07:00,930
I'm not great at bricklaying, right
1224
01:07:01,050 --> 01:07:03,924
but if I wasn't good enough and my boss
didn't think I was good enough
1225
01:07:04,043 --> 01:07:06,782
he would have never made me
a junior partner
1226
01:07:08,346 --> 01:07:10,952
I went out on my own
as a subcontracter
1227
01:07:11,961 --> 01:07:14,147
not long after the last show
1228
01:07:14,954 --> 01:07:18,166
then I started with a partner,
I organized everything
1229
01:07:18,285 --> 01:07:20,285
I bought all the equipment
because I didn't want to
1230
01:07:20,405 --> 01:07:22,403
be dependent on someone else
1231
01:07:22,523 --> 01:07:26,137
things didn't work out between the
two of us, he was a bit lazy
1232
01:07:26,257 --> 01:07:30,072
Do you have the right temperament,
do you think? To run your own business?
1233
01:07:30,192 --> 01:07:34,075
if you're talking about employing other
people, I'm not hard enough
1234
01:07:34,194 --> 01:07:37,925
I'm a little bit slow with
working out things on the job
1235
01:07:38,045 --> 01:07:40,683
not in particular the
laying of the bricks but
1236
01:07:40,802 --> 01:07:44,771
but I am a fairly slow thinker when
you've got to work something out
1237
01:07:46,385 --> 01:07:49,579
I think it'll end up being my
job for life, probably
1238
01:07:50,133 --> 01:07:52,017
not that I want it that way
1239
01:07:52,386 --> 01:07:55,262
cause it gets harder
as you get older, I think
1240
01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:58,870
I've got twenty three.. pieces..
23
1241
01:07:59,476 --> 01:08:01,325
and I don't know how many..
1242
01:08:01,611 --> 01:08:03,461
how many.. pieces I've got now
1243
01:08:03,948 --> 01:08:08,523
26 past 10 with Doug... 15 degrees
in Melbourne... at the moment...
1244
01:08:09,279 --> 01:08:11,869
They live in a working
class suburb of Melbourne.
1245
01:08:11,989 --> 01:08:13,904
Paul earns 12 thousand pounds a year
12 1 = 9.9872
1246
01:08:14,677 --> 01:08:15,905
owns two cars
1247
01:08:16,174 --> 01:08:19,353
and bought his house for 35 thousand pounds 18 months ago
1835
1248
01:08:20,631 --> 01:08:23,363
we're Mr. and Mrs. average,
that's just true
1249
01:08:24,009 --> 01:08:26,179
we probably earn an average income
1250
01:08:26,464 --> 01:08:28,062
just an average family
1251
01:08:28,182 --> 01:08:32,653
a good fist away by Russo up towards
center wing... Robertson this time...
1252
01:08:32,773 --> 01:08:35,394
Susan works part time as a hair dresser
1253
01:08:35,513 --> 01:08:37,136
and they have two children,
1254
01:08:37,255 --> 01:08:38,716
Katie and Robert.
1255
01:08:39,944 --> 01:08:42,063
Are you ambitious
for your children Paul?
1256
01:08:42,183 --> 01:08:46,679
I said something one morning, that one
day Robert would be a brain surgeon
1257
01:08:46,798 --> 01:08:50,231
that was a joke, I mean like if he was
a brain surgeon, all good and well but
1258
01:08:50,350 --> 01:08:54,148
but it would be nice to let
them go one step up from us, I think
1259
01:08:55,074 --> 01:08:58,106
put it this way, I hope he
is better at school work than I was
1260
01:08:58,226 --> 01:09:00,007
so, that he's got a choice
1261
01:09:00,443 --> 01:09:02,342
you know, because really..
1262
01:09:02,461 --> 01:09:05,099
the education standard
that I got, I didn't have a choice
1263
01:09:05,435 --> 01:09:07,403
what does university mean?
1264
01:09:07,523 --> 01:09:11,103
Paul started his school life at a
children's home near London.
1265
01:09:11,223 --> 01:09:14,803
When he was eight he emigrated to
Australia with his father.
1266
01:09:14,922 --> 01:09:17,561
Were you happy at the
children's home in England?
1267
01:09:17,681 --> 01:09:21,143
we didn't mind it really because
we didn't know what was going on
1268
01:09:21,262 --> 01:09:23,195
cause we were a bit young then
1269
01:09:23,314 --> 01:09:25,784
What regrets do you have about
your education then?
1270
01:09:25,904 --> 01:09:27,567
I didn't work hard enough
1271
01:09:27,686 --> 01:09:29,664
I was just very lazy at school
1272
01:09:29,784 --> 01:09:33,936
you know, if you're lazy and you don't
work at school, you suffer for it
1273
01:09:34,055 --> 01:09:36,036
there needs to be
a little more discipline
1274
01:09:36,157 --> 01:09:38,206
if private schools are better..
1275
01:09:38,991 --> 01:09:42,102
you'd be far better off spending
your money sending your kids there
1276
01:09:42,223 --> 01:09:44,708
then getting a video, a new television..
1277
01:09:44,828 --> 01:09:46,979
or something like that, I think
1278
01:09:49,831 --> 01:09:52,956
What else do you want for your kids,
that you didn't have?
1279
01:09:53,075 --> 01:09:55,747
a happier family life, I think
1280
01:09:55,867 --> 01:09:58,388
don't take me wrong, it wasn't miserable
1281
01:09:58,674 --> 01:10:01,009
I think it could have been better
1282
01:10:01,295 --> 01:10:04,356
I think that'd be one of the
most important things
1283
01:10:04,476 --> 01:10:08,090
well my mother and father got, well
they separated originally, I think
1284
01:10:08,594 --> 01:10:09,396
and..
1285
01:10:10,035 --> 01:10:11,750
eventually got divorced
1286
01:10:12,187 --> 01:10:16,627
I went to the boarding school for one
year and then we emigrated to Australia
1287
01:10:17,334 --> 01:10:19,015
my father got remarried
1288
01:10:21,318 --> 01:10:23,823
And how do you get on
with your stepmother?
1289
01:10:23,943 --> 01:10:26,329
pretty well, but like I said before
1290
01:10:26,449 --> 01:10:29,794
I'm not.. just not close..
I'm not really close to my father either
1291
01:10:34,425 --> 01:10:36,257
Do you have any regrets
about about the fact that
1292
01:10:36,377 --> 01:10:38,426
that you weren't closer to
him when you were younger?
1293
01:10:38,546 --> 01:10:41,673
yeah, I suppose... in a way I suppose
1294
01:10:42,210 --> 01:10:44,528
he was always there, you know,
I could always
1295
01:10:44,815 --> 01:10:48,362
talk to him but it was different
we were sort of..
1296
01:10:49,321 --> 01:10:52,079
we were, sort of, distant friends
I mean, we always got on fairly well
1297
01:10:52,198 --> 01:10:54,051
we didn't see much of each other
1298
01:10:56,253 --> 01:10:58,693
- here's grandad.. here's grandad..
- hey!
1299
01:11:00,071 --> 01:11:03,482
he said actually,
to his wife Barbara that..
1300
01:11:04,442 --> 01:11:06,946
that he missed out
on his own children
1301
01:11:07,067 --> 01:11:09,301
and that he's not
going to miss out on these
1302
01:11:09,422 --> 01:11:11,749
divorce was something new to me
until I grew up and was
1303
01:11:11,868 --> 01:11:14,203
knew what the
meaning of it all really was
1304
01:11:14,324 --> 01:11:16,306
there were no divorces in my family
1305
01:11:16,426 --> 01:11:18,358
I think of what Paul
has been through, I mean
1306
01:11:18,478 --> 01:11:22,040
Paul doesn't say that it was very bad
but I wouldn't want that for my children
1307
01:11:22,309 --> 01:11:23,588
it does worry me
1308
01:11:23,941 --> 01:11:26,564
you know, because it happens
so much these days
1309
01:11:26,684 --> 01:11:28,794
only time will tell what happens
1310
01:11:29,584 --> 01:11:31,955
divorcing your wife,
what does it get you?
1311
01:11:32,074 --> 01:11:33,536
it messes up your own life
1312
01:11:33,656 --> 01:11:36,093
it messes up the kids life, wife's life
1313
01:11:36,212 --> 01:11:40,892
I don't think half the people who get
divorced even think about it properly
1314
01:11:41,013 --> 01:11:44,054
What mark has it left on you, the
fact that you were brought up
1315
01:11:44,174 --> 01:11:45,668
within a bad marriage?
1316
01:11:45,788 --> 01:11:49,369
the only thing I can say, that I think
might have come from that is
1317
01:11:49,488 --> 01:11:51,302
just my lack of confidence
1318
01:11:51,605 --> 01:11:54,598
and being able to show my
feelings, really, I suppose
1319
01:11:55,170 --> 01:11:57,749
he is down on him self, he has
this excuse where he says,
1320
01:11:57,868 --> 01:12:01,616
"I'm only a bricklayer, I don't..
it's got nothing to do with me"
1321
01:12:01,983 --> 01:12:04,794
I don't know why it is,
I get really frustrated with him
1322
01:12:04,915 --> 01:12:07,868
I want to ring his neck
sometimes when he does it
1323
01:12:07,988 --> 01:12:09,717
but, he's getting better
1324
01:12:11,702 --> 01:12:14,454
So, do you feel there's
any conflict ahead?
1325
01:12:14,891 --> 01:12:17,464
If Sue wants a job and a career?
1326
01:12:18,052 --> 01:12:21,902
what's come up so far, since we've
been married, we've handled that
1327
01:12:23,500 --> 01:12:25,603
really, I think, Susan would probably be
1328
01:12:25,722 --> 01:12:29,920
the be the best one to start a..
be a businesswoman and I'll stay at home
1329
01:12:30,392 --> 01:12:31,367
you know..
1330
01:12:33,116 --> 01:12:36,159
I have to push him out of the house
sometimes,I think needs a bit of extra
1331
01:12:36,279 --> 01:12:38,255
male companionship because he..
1332
01:12:38,575 --> 01:12:40,962
being a bricklayer,
he only works with one fellow
1333
01:12:41,083 --> 01:12:44,377
he doesen't, we don't have a social
life with work type of thing
1334
01:12:44,497 --> 01:12:48,581
well he doesn't because it's
only just one person as well as himself
1335
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:52,483
and his basketball,
I think he really enjoys it
1336
01:12:52,602 --> 01:12:55,022
but he doesn't really let on
how much he enjoys it
1337
01:12:57,696 --> 01:13:01,006
I suppose you could see me now,
when I was seven, in a way
1338
01:13:01,764 --> 01:13:05,463
like I think it was pretty obvious
that I wasn't going to be a doctor
1339
01:13:05,582 --> 01:13:07,464
You seemed like such a sad little boy.
1340
01:13:07,583 --> 01:13:09,475
but that's me though, ha ha
1341
01:13:09,879 --> 01:13:11,442
I know I was pretty..
1342
01:13:11,745 --> 01:13:15,142
you know.. long faced sortta thing..
1343
01:13:15,933 --> 01:13:20,202
I was like that sometimes out here too,
I was always getting knocked about
1344
01:13:20,322 --> 01:13:22,657
I don't like greens, well I don't..
1345
01:13:22,777 --> 01:13:24,708
the first show I saw, was at 21
21
1346
01:13:24,829 --> 01:13:28,761
when I saw him at seven, I just wanted
to cry, he seemed so pathetic
7
1347
01:13:28,881 --> 01:13:29,585
he..
1348
01:13:30,863 --> 01:13:32,999
I suppose, I don't know
1349
01:13:33,118 --> 01:13:36,379
it's hard to say, it really
made me go to jelly inside, you know?
1350
01:13:36,849 --> 01:13:38,413
to see him like that
1351
01:13:39,373 --> 01:13:43,769
And do you think it's true that we can
see the man in the seven year old boy?
1352
01:13:44,224 --> 01:13:47,847
yes, yes it is because in that he
was a very gentle and..
1353
01:13:48,789 --> 01:13:50,941
and um.. not gentle..
1354
01:13:52,468 --> 01:13:54,655
caring person, yeah
he's always..
1355
01:13:55,597 --> 01:13:58,926
cared about other people
and always been able to work his way
1356
01:13:59,047 --> 01:13:59,985
talk his..
1357
01:14:00,105 --> 01:14:02,929
try to give an explanation for saying
something he really doesn't want to do
1358
01:14:03,049 --> 01:14:04,880
you know like, "what if I"
1359
01:14:05,300 --> 01:14:08,226
"didn't like to eat my greens"
and all that sort of thing, I mean
1360
01:14:08,346 --> 01:14:10,899
he always still does that, the
"what if", you know "what if"
1361
01:14:11,018 --> 01:14:12,951
and you know he doesn't
really want to do that
1362
01:14:13,070 --> 01:14:15,137
so he's trying to
talk himself out of it
1363
01:14:15,257 --> 01:14:16,448
yeah.. yeah..
1364
01:14:16,568 --> 01:14:18,584
Does he eat greens now?
- he loves them
1365
01:14:18,704 --> 01:14:20,782
he loves them, he loves them
1366
01:14:20,901 --> 01:14:22,816
What do you remember of England?
1367
01:14:25,372 --> 01:14:28,096
well it seemed to be raining all of the
time, I wouldn't
1368
01:14:28,216 --> 01:14:29,340
stake my life on it but..
1369
01:14:29,460 --> 01:14:31,948
-we've got a lot more than
we would have in England
1370
01:14:32,068 --> 01:14:34,101
from what other people tell us
1371
01:14:34,605 --> 01:14:35,955
but there again..
1372
01:14:37,064 --> 01:14:39,588
when it comes to work I don't
1373
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:42,749
sit down on my backside,
I'll go and chase it
1374
01:14:42,869 --> 01:14:44,481
so it's hard to say
1375
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:47,958
but I'd say, like in general,
that.. but I've probably..
1376
01:14:49,185 --> 01:14:52,482
I've probably done better
here than I would have there
1377
01:15:16,562 --> 01:15:18,868
the family is going to
come first, but I'm still
1378
01:15:18,988 --> 01:15:22,063
I'm still going to be working
and we'll progress..
1379
01:15:22,904 --> 01:15:25,057
you know..
- I'd love for Paul to build me a house
1380
01:15:25,176 --> 01:15:26,975
and I know he'd
be happy once he'd done it
1381
01:15:27,094 --> 01:15:30,976
but he's got his children and then
to build his own home...
1382
01:15:31,599 --> 01:15:35,052
it really would be the icing on
the cake for both of us
1383
01:15:39,223 --> 01:15:41,022
I read The Financial Times
1384
01:15:41,544 --> 01:15:43,846
I read The Observer and The Times
1385
01:15:44,282 --> 01:15:46,199
what do you like about it?
1386
01:15:46,319 --> 01:15:51,911
well, I like.. I usually look at the
headlines and then read about them..
1387
01:15:53,374 --> 01:15:54,265
about it
1388
01:15:55,305 --> 01:15:58,619
I like my newspaper because I've got
shares in it..
1389
01:15:58,738 --> 01:16:03,142
and I know everyday what the shares are
- The stuff that misers like you like!
1390
01:16:03,262 --> 01:16:08,506
but on Monday's they don't
move up so I don't look at it
1391
01:16:08,626 --> 01:16:10,675
what's the point of the program?
1392
01:16:11,785 --> 01:16:14,189
the point of the program is
to reach a comparison
1393
01:16:14,709 --> 01:16:16,323
I don't think it is..
1394
01:16:17,131 --> 01:16:19,334
because we're not necessarily
typical examples
1395
01:16:19,455 --> 01:16:23,903
I think that's what people who've seen
the program might think - yes, falsely
1396
01:16:24,324 --> 01:16:26,679
- I mean..
- they tend to typecast us
1397
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:30,965
so everything we say, they'll think
1398
01:16:31,084 --> 01:16:34,916
"oh, that's a typical result of
the public school system" - yes
1399
01:16:35,269 --> 01:16:38,126
Well, do you think there is any truth
behind the ideas behind the program?
1400
01:16:38,246 --> 01:16:41,607
That certain people have
more options than others?
1401
01:16:41,727 --> 01:16:44,315
it's certainly true that more people..
more people know they have
1402
01:16:44,434 --> 01:16:46,585
more options or imagine they have
1403
01:16:46,905 --> 01:16:48,838
I think in practical terms..
1404
01:16:50,402 --> 01:16:54,688
the difference in the numerical
number of options isn't that great
1405
01:16:55,613 --> 01:16:58,236
but the mere knowledge creates an
option in itself - exactly, yes
1406
01:16:58,356 --> 01:17:00,239
so I think we do have more options
1407
01:17:00,358 --> 01:17:04,090
and it is undesirable but it's
very difficult to correct
1408
01:17:04,210 --> 01:17:06,764
I don't think it is
undesirable! at all!
1409
01:17:06,884 --> 01:17:09,536
I think what is undesirable is people
who have had options
1410
01:17:09,655 --> 01:17:12,293
don't make advantage of them..
take best advantage of them
1411
01:17:12,414 --> 01:17:17,422
when I leave this school
I'm going to College Court
College Court
1412
01:17:20,172 --> 01:17:24,225
then I would be going to Westminster
Boarding School if I pass the exam
1413
01:17:25,771 --> 01:17:27,873
and then we
think I'm going to
1414
01:17:29,088 --> 01:17:31,005
Cambridge and
Trinity Hall
1415
01:17:31,493 --> 01:17:33,527
John went to
Westminster school
1416
01:17:33,997 --> 01:17:38,387
and at twenty-one was in his final
year reading law at Christ Church Oxford
21
1417
01:17:39,027 --> 01:17:43,116
I do believe that parents have a right
to educate children as they think fit
1418
01:17:43,236 --> 01:17:45,350
and I think someone who works
1419
01:17:46,039 --> 01:17:48,259
on an assembly line in some
of these car factories
1420
01:17:48,378 --> 01:17:51,908
and earning a huge wage could
well afford to send their children to
1421
01:17:52,028 --> 01:17:53,354
a private school
1422
01:17:53,909 --> 01:17:55,120
just because..
1423
01:17:56,028 --> 01:17:59,675
just because some sorts of people don't
put that as high on their priorities as
1424
01:17:59,795 --> 01:18:01,896
you know, have a smart car or something
1425
01:18:02,015 --> 01:18:03,795
I'm going to Charter House
Charter House
1426
01:18:05,207 --> 01:18:10,076
and after that Trinity Hall, Cambridge
1427
01:18:11,623 --> 01:18:15,609
Andrew went to Charter House and
read law at Trinity Hall, Cambridge
Charter House
1428
01:18:16,416 --> 01:18:19,545
and you can never be sure
of leaving your children
1429
01:18:19,881 --> 01:18:21,680
any worldly goods
1430
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:25,127
but at least you can be sure
once you've given them a good education
1431
01:18:25,247 --> 01:18:27,566
that's something that
no one can take away
1432
01:18:27,687 --> 01:18:31,872
when I leave school,
I'm going to the Dragon School
Dragon School
1433
01:18:31,992 --> 01:18:35,806
I might.. and mummy is..
and I might go to..
1434
01:18:36,462 --> 01:18:39,775
after, I might go to
Charter House, Marlborough
Charter House, Marlborough
1435
01:18:39,895 --> 01:18:40,733
and..
1436
01:18:43,524 --> 01:18:47,561
I can't.. I can't remember
all the other places
1437
01:18:48,115 --> 01:18:51,328
because mummy has got so many
places... but these're some of them
1438
01:18:51,447 --> 01:18:53,479
What about university Charles?
1439
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:55,515
I might go to Oxford
1440
01:18:56,911 --> 01:19:00,223
Charles went to Marlborough but
didn't make it to Oxford.
Marlborough
1441
01:19:00,343 --> 01:19:02,746
Instead, he went to Durham University.
1442
01:19:03,133 --> 01:19:08,397
I'd say, I'm pleased I didn't
because it's very much a sort of..
1443
01:19:09,625 --> 01:19:11,238
sort of Marlborough..
Marlborough
1444
01:19:12,409 --> 01:19:13,603
prep school..
1445
01:19:14,359 --> 01:19:16,866
Marlborough-Oxbridge conveyor belt
1446
01:19:17,656 --> 01:19:19,926
and you get shoved out at the end..
1447
01:19:20,514 --> 01:19:21,473
and you..
1448
01:19:22,437 --> 01:19:24,103
when you go to Oxbridge
1449
01:19:24,222 --> 01:19:26,170
and obviously it's not true
in all cases but
1450
01:19:26,291 --> 01:19:27,550
I think for the majority
1451
01:19:27,669 --> 01:19:31,720
they mix with the same as they
were with a school
1452
01:19:32,342 --> 01:19:36,853
When they were 21, we asked them what
they thought they would be doing at 28.
21 28
1453
01:19:37,129 --> 01:19:37,818
John
1454
01:19:38,087 --> 01:19:39,668
I might be at the bar
1455
01:19:41,036 --> 01:19:41,995
Doing what?
1456
01:19:43,558 --> 01:19:45,476
perhaps chancellory practice
1457
01:19:48,284 --> 01:19:50,353
How do you see your life at 28?
28
1458
01:19:51,467 --> 01:19:53,770
What do you want for your self then?
1459
01:19:54,039 --> 01:19:55,990
I'd quite like to be married by then
1460
01:19:56,110 --> 01:19:58,462
John has just announced his engagement.
1461
01:19:58,582 --> 01:20:02,290
He is a successful barrister in the
chancellory division of the high court.
1462
01:20:02,409 --> 01:20:05,441
At 21 these were his
thoughts about his career.
21
1463
01:20:05,895 --> 01:20:07,576
law sort of interests me
1464
01:20:08,098 --> 01:20:09,728
I think it's sort of..
1465
01:20:10,132 --> 01:20:11,089
a good life
1466
01:20:11,210 --> 01:20:11,998
it's..
1467
01:20:13,629 --> 01:20:15,680
it's hard work
but you sort of
1468
01:20:15,801 --> 01:20:17,682
when you get to a certain..
1469
01:20:17,801 --> 01:20:19,986
eminence, you know you
take the work you want and
1470
01:20:20,105 --> 01:20:22,087
you take the holidays you want
1471
01:20:22,558 --> 01:20:24,845
you don't really dance to anyone's tune
1472
01:20:25,904 --> 01:20:27,914
all of which quite suits me
1473
01:20:28,034 --> 01:20:29,746
And what about Charles?
1474
01:20:30,335 --> 01:20:31,493
hard to say..
1475
01:20:32,031 --> 01:20:35,343
probably scribbling
away in some basement
1476
01:20:35,463 --> 01:20:38,085
for a some London
newspaper or something
1477
01:20:38,993 --> 01:20:42,353
Charles did scribble away
for an East London newspaper.
1478
01:20:42,656 --> 01:20:44,305
He moved on after a year
1479
01:20:44,424 --> 01:20:48,324
and joined the BBC where he now
works as and assistant producer.
BBC
1480
01:20:48,676 --> 01:20:50,214
And Andrew, what did he want?
1481
01:20:50,334 --> 01:20:53,981
I'd like to be a solicitor
and also fairly successful
1482
01:20:54,889 --> 01:20:58,472
Andrew is a solicitor working
for a large firm in the city.
1483
01:20:58,824 --> 01:21:02,136
What qualities do you think
it needs to be successful?
1484
01:21:02,994 --> 01:21:06,509
well you have to have a legal
ability in my business, obviously
1485
01:21:06,628 --> 01:21:10,764
and you have to have a 'bedside manner'
as far as clients are concerned
1486
01:21:11,033 --> 01:21:15,066
cause it's no good being brilliant if
you can't communicate with your clients
1487
01:21:15,187 --> 01:21:18,145
What do you think
about girlfriends at your age?
1488
01:21:18,497 --> 01:21:21,171
I've got one but
I don't think much of her
1489
01:21:21,292 --> 01:21:23,619
The girls never.. never
1490
01:21:23,738 --> 01:21:25,670
never do what the boys want them to
1491
01:21:25,790 --> 01:21:28,428
they always start playing with dolls
1492
01:21:28,548 --> 01:21:31,387
when the boys want
to play rough and tumble
1493
01:21:31,507 --> 01:21:32,777
it's quite true
1494
01:21:32,897 --> 01:21:36,359
I don't think I financially
come from the same background
1495
01:21:37,687 --> 01:21:41,706
Andrew didn't for a 'Haughty Deb'
he went for a good 'Yorkshire Lass
1496
01:21:42,009 --> 01:21:44,565
which I mean, obviously he
knew what he wanted
1497
01:21:45,136 --> 01:21:47,828
Andrew and Jane were
married 18 months ago.
18
1498
01:21:48,232 --> 01:21:50,617
I think I'm pretty down to Earth and I
1499
01:21:50,737 --> 01:21:53,981
tend to be less extravagant
then maybe some women are
1500
01:21:55,359 --> 01:21:59,528
when I go out, I don't buy lots of
expensive dresses, I just buy one or two
1501
01:22:00,100 --> 01:22:02,201
and I even let her pay for them
1502
01:22:03,581 --> 01:22:06,555
They spend their weekends
in the Sussex countryside
1503
01:22:06,675 --> 01:22:08,439
where they are converting an old barn
1504
01:22:08,558 --> 01:22:11,903
which they bought with
financial help from their parents.
1505
01:22:12,022 --> 01:22:15,603
They plan to live in it
permanently when they start a family
1506
01:22:17,082 --> 01:22:19,168
During a week they have a flat in London
1507
01:22:19,287 --> 01:22:21,967
and Jane has a
full-time job as a secretary.
1508
01:22:22,657 --> 01:22:25,585
I think it's not a bad
idea to pay for schools
1509
01:22:25,905 --> 01:22:29,990
because if we didn't schools
would be so nasty and crowded
1510
01:22:30,764 --> 01:22:32,562
- yes
- so do I think so
1511
01:22:32,681 --> 01:22:35,908
- yes - and the people
in the school's wouldn't
1512
01:22:36,028 --> 01:22:37,909
- the poor people
would come rushing in
1513
01:22:38,029 --> 01:22:43,374
- the man in charge
of the school would get very angry
1514
01:22:43,494 --> 01:22:49,176
because he wouldn't be able to
pay all of the masters
1515
01:22:49,296 --> 01:22:50,823
if he didn't get any money
1516
01:22:53,817 --> 01:22:56,760
well, I never really experienced
the state system but I think you get
1517
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:01,166
a better level of education if
you can go to a private school
1518
01:23:01,286 --> 01:23:05,467
Do you think it's bad that people
like you, opt out of the school system?
1519
01:23:06,475 --> 01:23:09,806
well, there are really
two counter arguments
1520
01:23:09,925 --> 01:23:12,311
first of all, there's the argument
that people should have a choice
1521
01:23:12,431 --> 01:23:14,430
if they've earned the money to spend it
1522
01:23:14,549 --> 01:23:18,735
and there's the other argument that if
we all went to the same sort of schools
1523
01:23:19,293 --> 01:23:23,681
those school would probably be better
because those people who had influence
1524
01:23:24,137 --> 01:23:26,021
would do their upmost to
make sure they were better
1525
01:23:26,140 --> 01:23:27,820
if they had to send their children there
1526
01:23:28,366 --> 01:23:30,081
whereas they just look back
1527
01:23:30,201 --> 01:23:33,367
and don't particularly care
what happens in the state system
1528
01:23:33,487 --> 01:23:34,948
And what do you feel about that?
1529
01:23:36,108 --> 01:23:36,865
well..
1530
01:23:37,269 --> 01:23:40,543
well, I think probably the latter choice
is fairly impractical
1531
01:23:40,662 --> 01:23:43,569
so, I suppose that one has to continue
with the idea of everyone
1532
01:23:43,689 --> 01:23:44,931
having a choice
1533
01:23:45,052 --> 01:23:48,508
once I had a talk to Grevil,
he was in my house
Grevil
1534
01:23:49,500 --> 01:23:50,222
and
1535
01:23:51,518 --> 01:23:54,670
I asked Sir if he could put
him out of my house
1536
01:23:54,789 --> 01:23:57,410
because he was always getting minuses
1537
01:23:57,848 --> 01:24:00,337
looking back at our film and us at seven
1538
01:24:00,774 --> 01:24:03,734
certainly I was a fairly
precocious little brat
1539
01:24:03,853 --> 01:24:05,650
and I hope I am no longer
1540
01:24:07,147 --> 01:24:09,788
Do you still read The Financial Times?
- no
1541
01:24:17,273 --> 01:24:19,813
you mustn't! no feeding it says!
1542
01:24:27,622 --> 01:24:28,950
stop it at once!
1543
01:24:29,070 --> 01:24:32,179
- I don't think much of the accents
- neither do I
1544
01:24:32,300 --> 01:24:35,560
- neither do I
- but it doesn't prevent me liking them
1545
01:24:39,994 --> 01:24:44,199
that mustn't be late there,
quite quietly...
1546
01:24:46,687 --> 01:24:49,090
well yes I do feel I've
had the best of everything
1547
01:24:49,209 --> 01:24:51,528
as far as education is concerned
1548
01:24:51,982 --> 01:24:55,093
but, you know, to get
here I had to work very hard
1549
01:24:55,531 --> 01:24:57,596
But you don't deny
you've had a 'silver spoon'?
1550
01:24:57,717 --> 01:25:01,430
I think anyone who goes to really
good school has had a leg-up
1551
01:25:01,716 --> 01:25:03,617
but I mean, I wouldn't say
I'd had been
1552
01:25:05,097 --> 01:25:06,831
unduly privileged if I'd
1553
01:25:07,132 --> 01:25:07,940
missed
1554
01:25:08,866 --> 01:25:12,245
exams at my school and
had to go to a sort of grotty..
1555
01:25:12,364 --> 01:25:16,761
grotty public school
I wouldn't have thought
I'd have had any advantage at all
1556
01:25:16,881 --> 01:25:20,360
yes I much say, all this talk about
opportunities it's something I did
1557
01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:22,882
did slightly object
to in the program
1558
01:25:23,403 --> 01:25:26,294
we were shown at the age of seven
outlining sort of, the academics
1559
01:25:26,414 --> 01:25:29,909
of a career that most of us..
did in fact pursue, you know
1560
01:25:30,682 --> 01:25:32,381
you know, each sentence ended up
1561
01:25:32,501 --> 01:25:35,239
"John is at Westminster" "Andrew is
at Charter House" and everything
Charter House
1562
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:37,005
it implied that we merely sailed through
1563
01:25:37,125 --> 01:25:39,612
merely manifesting an intention
that we had at the age of seven
7
1564
01:25:39,732 --> 01:25:42,976
it didn't show the sleepless nights,
the sort of pouring over our books
1565
01:25:43,899 --> 01:25:47,645
you know, all of the sweat and toil
that got us to universities
1566
01:25:47,764 --> 01:25:52,858
it was presented as if it was just part
of some indestructible birth rite
1567
01:25:52,977 --> 01:25:55,179
and I thought that it was unfair
1568
01:25:55,298 --> 01:25:59,433
that it didn't show having to do
beastly jobs on the holidays, you know
1569
01:25:59,819 --> 01:26:01,701
to make ends meet and things
1570
01:26:02,508 --> 01:26:04,425
it didn't give a very real..
1571
01:26:05,366 --> 01:26:06,123
impression
1572
01:26:06,243 --> 01:26:07,124
Do you want to be rich?
1573
01:26:08,251 --> 01:26:14,271
yes, because I don't want to be tied
down to the dourness of an everyday job
1574
01:26:14,390 --> 01:26:17,316
I want to have enough money
so that I can indulge in
1575
01:26:18,728 --> 01:26:22,260
the things that might interest me
like collecting paintings
1576
01:26:23,941 --> 01:26:26,950
I do believe in an
ordered and structured society
1577
01:26:27,975 --> 01:26:28,849
you know
1578
01:26:29,556 --> 01:26:32,381
we are not exactly alive for very long
and we've each got our
1579
01:26:32,502 --> 01:26:35,938
our own job to
do and our own little position to be in
1580
01:26:37,021 --> 01:26:41,275
some people have.. a better time
than others, but it.. you know..
1581
01:26:41,395 --> 01:26:43,596
but it doesn't matter that if you sweep
the streets
1582
01:26:43,716 --> 01:26:45,531
you're any less valuable than
1583
01:26:45,650 --> 01:26:48,877
than someone who i
running a huge corporation
1584
01:26:50,424 --> 01:26:52,072
well not everyone can be at the top
1585
01:26:52,192 --> 01:26:55,369
as long as people are happy
with what they are doing
1586
01:26:55,688 --> 01:26:58,378
that's, I think, the
greatest good that can be
1587
01:26:58,498 --> 01:27:03,624
and this is what worries about these
new sort of invidious class attitudes
1588
01:27:03,745 --> 01:27:06,483
the certain sort of subversive
elements are introducing
1589
01:27:06,603 --> 01:27:08,821
that are based on envy and things
1590
01:27:10,183 --> 01:27:12,537
John declined to be interviewed at 28.
28
1591
01:27:13,038 --> 01:27:16,251
He felt satisfied with what was said
in the previous films
1592
01:27:16,371 --> 01:27:17,596
and had nothing more to add.
1593
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:28,298
the rich children always
make fun of poor children
1594
01:27:29,273 --> 01:27:32,922
yes - yes, they say, "look at
that lovely little sissy over there"
1595
01:27:34,032 --> 01:27:36,051
and they throw things at them
1596
01:27:36,571 --> 01:27:40,641
I don't particularly want to be
rich but I'd like to have enough money
1597
01:27:41,751 --> 01:27:43,920
Well, what do you mean by enough?
1598
01:27:45,148 --> 01:27:47,772
or, enough to have a nice house and..
1599
01:27:48,123 --> 01:27:51,896
and be able to send the children
to private school if you want to
1600
01:27:52,017 --> 01:27:54,957
I really don't see how someone's
life can be a failure
1601
01:27:55,966 --> 01:27:59,193
if I became a journalist
and got sacked at 30
30
1602
01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:01,935
it's probably because I'd grown out of
it or I'd changed
1603
01:28:02,054 --> 01:28:05,785
so I was no longer suitable, I'd find
something else which was
1604
01:28:07,463 --> 01:28:10,793
I'd find that I enjoyed and
that my talents were suited to
1605
01:28:11,348 --> 01:28:14,342
Charles has found a career
suited to his talents
1606
01:28:14,745 --> 01:28:17,149
At the BBC he makes documentary films,
BBC
1607
01:28:17,889 --> 01:28:20,496
he decided not
to take part in this film.
1608
01:28:21,823 --> 01:28:25,136
I'm quite happy living in the society
that I am living in
1609
01:28:25,256 --> 01:28:28,483
it's a shame that more people can't
get the opportunities that I've had
1610
01:28:28,602 --> 01:28:30,920
I'm not sure how one deals with that
1611
01:28:31,661 --> 01:28:35,677
But you've been lucky haven't you? What
about those that haven't been so lucky?
1612
01:28:35,798 --> 01:28:37,849
I have been very lucky
1613
01:28:40,136 --> 01:28:41,852
we pretend we've got swords
1614
01:28:41,971 --> 01:28:42,625
and
1615
01:28:42,894 --> 01:28:45,047
we makes the noises of swords fighting
1616
01:28:45,166 --> 01:28:47,695
and when someone stabs us we go ahhhhh!
1617
01:28:48,469 --> 01:28:50,362
I think if you're healthy
and have good friends
1618
01:28:50,482 --> 01:28:52,005
you can get on perfectly well
1619
01:28:52,125 --> 01:28:54,191
but everybody would like to be rich
1620
01:28:54,948 --> 01:28:57,285
Neil was brought
up in a Liverpool suburb,
1621
01:28:57,406 --> 01:28:59,136
went to comprehensive school
1622
01:28:59,256 --> 01:29:02,516
and dropped out of Aberdeen
University after one term
1623
01:29:02,869 --> 01:29:07,005
at 21 he was working as a casual
labourer at a building site in London
21
1624
01:29:09,190 --> 01:29:14,100
I came to London and I contacted an
agency for squatters
1625
01:29:14,862 --> 01:29:16,427
and they were able to
1626
01:29:17,048 --> 01:29:20,042
give me the address of somebody
who was able to
1627
01:29:20,428 --> 01:29:24,094
help people who were looking
for accommodation in the London area
1628
01:29:24,213 --> 01:29:28,247
and by the process of chasing
people around I eventually managed to
1629
01:29:28,852 --> 01:29:30,265
to find this place
1630
01:29:31,291 --> 01:29:33,562
I think in questions of squatting
1631
01:29:34,442 --> 01:29:37,300
a bit of humanity
is more important than vague
1632
01:29:37,822 --> 01:29:40,042
rules about who can live where
1633
01:29:40,688 --> 01:29:43,669
But you've kicked
against the stability that's..
1634
01:29:43,955 --> 01:29:46,460
-I don't think I ever had any stability
1635
01:29:47,049 --> 01:29:48,395
to be quite honest
1636
01:29:48,983 --> 01:29:51,825
I can't think of any time
in my life when I ever did
1637
01:29:51,944 --> 01:29:54,678
I don't think I've been kicking against
anything, I think I've been kicking
1638
01:29:54,798 --> 01:29:56,764
in midair the whole of my life
1639
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:04,331
last three years I've been unemployed
1640
01:30:04,451 --> 01:30:07,173
but traveling quite
a bit, mostly in Britain
1641
01:30:07,627 --> 01:30:09,763
and abroad once or twice but..
1642
01:30:10,200 --> 01:30:12,687
but not as extensively
as I used to do
1643
01:30:14,839 --> 01:30:18,385
thanks, shall I put the luggage
in here? or, do you want it in the back?
1644
01:30:18,506 --> 01:30:21,471
I live off money from social security
1645
01:30:21,842 --> 01:30:24,903
which does me for my rent and my food
1646
01:30:30,150 --> 01:30:33,884
I've been moving about a bit between
differnent places, really
1647
01:30:34,003 --> 01:30:39,064
I'm a bit unsettled but I'm very
shortly moving to live in digs
1648
01:30:41,518 --> 01:30:45,198
For the last seven years Neil
has been moving around Britain.
1649
01:30:45,317 --> 01:30:48,066
He spent the summer
on a farm in North Wales
1650
01:30:48,186 --> 01:30:50,165
and when we found
him he had just arrived
1651
01:30:50,285 --> 01:30:52,687
in the Western Highlands of Scotland.
1652
01:30:53,372 --> 01:30:56,683
Do you think people like who
live off the state are scrounging?
1653
01:30:56,802 --> 01:30:57,457
-no
1654
01:30:57,877 --> 01:31:01,897
if the state didn't give us any money,
it would probably just mean crime
1655
01:31:02,016 --> 01:31:04,688
and I'm glad I don't
have to steal to keep myself alive
1656
01:31:05,749 --> 01:31:09,197
I do it simply because I
don't want to be without any money
1657
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:13,936
if the money runs out, well
1658
01:31:14,057 --> 01:31:16,072
then for a few days, there
is nowhere to go to
1659
01:31:16,191 --> 01:31:17,720
that's all you can do
1660
01:31:17,841 --> 01:31:20,848
I simply have to find
the warmest shed I can find
1661
01:31:25,068 --> 01:31:27,825
Neil rents whatever kind of
home he can find.
1662
01:31:28,784 --> 01:31:33,441
the last job I had was cooking in a
youth hostel, some cleaning work as well
1663
01:31:33,794 --> 01:31:36,012
I was the only person in the hostel
who could speak French
1664
01:31:36,133 --> 01:31:37,962
so I did a bit of that
1665
01:31:38,268 --> 01:31:39,358
Do you eat everyday?
1666
01:31:39,478 --> 01:31:40,166
yes
1667
01:31:40,772 --> 01:31:45,126
I'm eating better now then I was at
times when I was in Aberdeen
1668
01:31:45,615 --> 01:31:48,590
those days, sometimes I really
was short of food
1669
01:31:49,482 --> 01:31:52,039
well I'm going to take
people to the country
1670
01:31:52,159 --> 01:31:54,562
and sometimes take them to the seaside
1671
01:31:55,571 --> 01:31:58,780
and have a big loud speaker in the
motor coach
1672
01:31:58,901 --> 01:32:02,489
and tell them where abouts we are
and what we're going to do
1673
01:32:03,516 --> 01:32:06,761
and where the road is and all about that
1674
01:32:09,694 --> 01:32:11,342
there's a lot more to do
1675
01:32:12,081 --> 01:32:16,134
in the mountains than there would be
in a suburb or a city centre
1676
01:32:17,059 --> 01:32:20,710
what I found here, in fact, is you
don't talk about the weather
1677
01:32:21,113 --> 01:32:24,090
because the weather is all around,
everyone know it's been raining
1678
01:32:24,209 --> 01:32:27,234
so you don't talk about the weather
that makes good sense to me!
1679
01:32:27,354 --> 01:32:30,207
I'm not the sort of person
who can go into a pub
1680
01:32:30,326 --> 01:32:34,562
sit down with a drink and listen to
the jukebox and talk a lot of rubbish
1681
01:32:34,998 --> 01:32:37,252
a lot of people find that very relaxing
1682
01:32:37,373 --> 01:32:39,508
but, if I'm going to talk to somebody
1683
01:32:39,628 --> 01:32:41,644
a, I have to be able to
hear myself speaking
1684
01:32:41,764 --> 01:32:45,040
and b, I have to talk about something
that actually has a meaning
1685
01:32:45,160 --> 01:32:48,555
I'm not trying to denigrate the way
most people relax
1686
01:32:48,675 --> 01:32:51,591
but I can't do that, so
I'm lost in a noisy pub
1687
01:32:52,095 --> 01:32:55,189
I'll sit in a quite
corner of a quite pub
1688
01:32:55,310 --> 01:32:57,766
and then I'll want to talk about
literature or something like that
1689
01:32:57,886 --> 01:33:00,105
which not everybody.. will want to..
1690
01:33:01,501 --> 01:33:03,435
How do people regard you here?
1691
01:33:04,965 --> 01:33:07,405
well, I'm still known as an
eccentric
1692
01:33:09,053 --> 01:33:10,936
as I have been since..
16
1693
01:33:11,844 --> 01:33:14,401
about the age of sixteen or so
1694
01:33:16,150 --> 01:33:17,924
Do days seem long for you?
1695
01:33:18,227 --> 01:33:19,320
they can do
1696
01:33:25,121 --> 01:33:27,202
Do you have any friends anywhere?
1697
01:33:27,321 --> 01:33:29,909
I have some good friends still
in England
1698
01:33:30,245 --> 01:33:34,247
I don't think I need to go to university
because I'm not going to be a teacher
1699
01:33:34,367 --> 01:33:36,472
I went to a comprehensive school
1700
01:33:37,194 --> 01:33:41,566
I found a much bigger course and
I found it hard to settle into at first
1701
01:33:41,687 --> 01:33:43,938
I did make an application to Oxford
1702
01:33:44,342 --> 01:33:45,869
but I didn't get in
1703
01:33:46,610 --> 01:33:49,333
well I think that's
in the past now and that's..
1704
01:33:49,453 --> 01:33:52,772
I don't whether I would have
been any happier at Oxford
1705
01:33:53,874 --> 01:33:56,244
it always had been
a dream to get into Oxford
1706
01:33:56,364 --> 01:33:58,178
I think because people
had encouraged me
1707
01:33:58,297 --> 01:34:01,584
and because I knew famous
people having been to Oxford
1708
01:34:03,451 --> 01:34:05,402
it is still something occasionally I
1709
01:34:05,521 --> 01:34:07,562
I think
about and think yes
1710
01:34:08,571 --> 01:34:09,847
I know I could have done well
1711
01:34:10,889 --> 01:34:13,295
I've been playing since I started
at the comprehensive school
1712
01:34:13,414 --> 01:34:14,219
since the first year
1713
01:34:14,339 --> 01:34:17,129
I don't think I was half as
clever as I was told I was, I think
1714
01:34:17,249 --> 01:34:19,887
unfortunately, I grew up
1715
01:34:20,006 --> 01:34:22,241
against a background of fairly..
1716
01:34:22,897 --> 01:34:25,621
of people of pretty average intellagence
1717
01:34:25,741 --> 01:34:27,942
I don't think I went to
a school of bright people
1718
01:34:28,063 --> 01:34:30,347
if this was the case, I don't think
I would have been so big headed
1719
01:34:30,466 --> 01:34:32,566
I know I went to university expecting
1720
01:34:32,687 --> 01:34:36,452
to be something of a genius
and found that wasn't the case at all
1721
01:34:37,544 --> 01:34:38,922
which is a good thing for me,
1722
01:34:39,042 --> 01:34:41,779
it's very good that I didn't count
that opinion, I don't think I was
1723
01:34:41,899 --> 01:34:44,741
so much clever,
I just think I was
1724
01:34:44,861 --> 01:34:47,534
quite enthusiastic particularly
when it came to O levels
1725
01:34:47,654 --> 01:34:51,603
so I was enthusiastic about the
subjects I was studying and therefore
1726
01:34:51,724 --> 01:34:55,238
with the help of good teaching
I was able to get good results
1727
01:34:55,357 --> 01:34:56,988
What were your results?
1728
01:34:57,625 --> 01:35:00,199
well, I did well enough, I'm
not going to boast
1729
01:35:00,318 --> 01:35:03,528
No, tell me. tell me the fact. How
many O levels and A levels did you get?
1730
01:35:03,648 --> 01:35:06,387
I got ten O levels and then
1731
01:35:06,508 --> 01:35:08,337
I got four A levels
4
1732
01:35:09,094 --> 01:35:11,009
Did you get good grades
within them?
1733
01:35:11,130 --> 01:35:13,078
yes, the grades were
quite satisfactory
1734
01:35:13,198 --> 01:35:14,207
well I was only
1735
01:35:14,327 --> 01:35:16,592
taking university seriously
for a matter of couple of months
1736
01:35:16,711 --> 01:35:18,148
two or three months
1737
01:35:19,729 --> 01:35:23,649
maybe I went to the wrong university
or maybe university life didn't suit me
1738
01:35:23,769 --> 01:35:24,760
either way
1739
01:35:25,482 --> 01:35:28,912
I felt a very great need
to get out of the system.
1740
01:35:29,033 --> 01:35:31,638
no formal education can
prepare anybody for life
1741
01:35:31,757 --> 01:35:34,900
only life can prepare
you for what comes
1742
01:35:35,252 --> 01:35:39,202
and sooner or later you are going
to have to cross certain barriers
1743
01:35:39,322 --> 01:35:41,792
I don't think you
ever cross those uh..
1744
01:35:42,245 --> 01:35:44,802
at school or at university
1745
01:35:45,576 --> 01:35:48,675
you come across the problem
of mixing with other people but
1746
01:35:48,796 --> 01:35:51,147
the real problem.. I mean..
1747
01:35:51,267 --> 01:35:54,409
the real problem of becoming
a success in the world is
1748
01:35:54,530 --> 01:35:56,108
when you have to tackle yourself
1749
01:35:56,228 --> 01:36:00,558
on the grass.. we play
international wrestling
1750
01:36:00,678 --> 01:36:03,036
yeah, that's only
in summertime though
1751
01:36:03,156 --> 01:36:05,760
yes, only when we
can to go on the grass
1752
01:36:06,197 --> 01:36:10,066
being in set one, it's very very
hard to keep up with the leaders
1753
01:36:10,186 --> 01:36:12,420
I never have time to relax at all
1754
01:36:12,783 --> 01:36:17,037
I don't know what sort of stumbling
blocks should be put in a child's way
1755
01:36:17,157 --> 01:36:20,181
to get him used to
living in the outside world
1756
01:36:21,981 --> 01:36:25,327
because I think maybe this is something
that was wrong in my upbringing
1757
01:36:25,447 --> 01:36:27,766
I didn't have enough
obstacles to get over
1758
01:36:27,886 --> 01:36:28,926
I still..
1759
01:36:29,935 --> 01:36:34,374
I still.. set myself high standards
if I'm doing something that I want to do
1760
01:36:35,821 --> 01:36:36,788
but that's
1761
01:36:37,242 --> 01:36:39,932
that's important
that's not too bad a thing
1762
01:36:40,992 --> 01:36:44,439
But you talked also about not
having enough obstacles in your life.
1763
01:36:44,559 --> 01:36:46,676
How do you feel about that now?
1764
01:36:49,198 --> 01:36:52,326
funny that isn't it? I can't remember
saying that but now I do remember
1765
01:36:52,446 --> 01:36:53,133
and
1766
01:36:53,823 --> 01:36:56,463
it seems the whole
situation is reversed
1767
01:37:00,499 --> 01:37:01,561
In what way?
1768
01:37:04,033 --> 01:37:05,631
well now I'm a free..
1769
01:37:06,539 --> 01:37:10,003
I've got a free hand but I've
got nothing to do with myself
1770
01:37:10,693 --> 01:37:11,432
so..
1771
01:37:12,459 --> 01:37:14,694
In the winter if
you lived in the country
1772
01:37:14,814 --> 01:37:18,966
it would just be all wet and there
wouldn't be anything for miles around
1773
01:37:19,251 --> 01:37:22,915
and you'd get soaked
if you'd try to go out
1774
01:37:23,035 --> 01:37:26,178
and there's no shelter
anywhere except in your own house
1775
01:37:26,298 --> 01:37:29,642
but in winter you can go
out on wet wintery days
1776
01:37:29,762 --> 01:37:31,871
because you can always find
somewhere to shelter
1777
01:37:31,990 --> 01:37:33,989
because there's lots of places
1778
01:37:34,804 --> 01:37:38,738
I don't thin I've been typical of the
environment in which I lived
1779
01:37:38,857 --> 01:37:40,570
I might still have been unemployed
1780
01:37:40,691 --> 01:37:43,076
but what my background has given me is
1781
01:37:43,513 --> 01:37:44,757
umm a sense..
1782
01:37:45,128 --> 01:37:47,240
of just being part of..
1783
01:37:49,124 --> 01:37:51,697
a very impersonal society
1784
01:37:51,817 --> 01:37:52,891
the suburbs..
1785
01:37:54,152 --> 01:37:55,328
the suburbs..
1786
01:37:55,935 --> 01:37:58,508
force this kind
of feeling upon somebody
1787
01:38:00,324 --> 01:38:02,627
the most you can hope to achieve is
1788
01:38:03,822 --> 01:38:06,762
is the right to climb
into a suburban train
1789
01:38:08,158 --> 01:38:11,085
five or ten times a week and
just stagger back
1790
01:38:11,858 --> 01:38:14,781
for the weekend,
the least is just unemployment
1791
01:38:16,649 --> 01:38:17,758
great, thanks
1792
01:38:18,331 --> 01:38:20,466
I just needed a nice woolly pair
1793
01:38:22,643 --> 01:38:25,787
What other things about
modern society turn you off?
1794
01:38:26,427 --> 01:38:29,067
the cheap satisfaction
in so many things
1795
01:38:29,773 --> 01:38:31,102
the aimlessness
1796
01:38:32,094 --> 01:38:35,635
but I think the total lack
of thought is at the bottom of it
1797
01:38:35,905 --> 01:38:38,814
nobody seems to know where
they or anybody else is going
1798
01:38:38,934 --> 01:38:40,732
and nobody seems to worry
1799
01:38:41,353 --> 01:38:43,369
you know, you finish the week
1800
01:38:43,490 --> 01:38:47,455
you come home, you plug into the TV
set for the weekend and then you..
1801
01:38:47,576 --> 01:38:49,456
manage to get back to work on Monday
1802
01:38:49,577 --> 01:38:52,602
and it seems to me that
this is just a slow path to..
1803
01:38:52,721 --> 01:38:55,175
to.. to total brainwashing
1804
01:38:55,444 --> 01:38:58,985
and if you have a brainwashed
society then you're heading towards doom
1805
01:38:59,104 --> 01:39:01,069
there's no question about that
1806
01:39:01,490 --> 01:39:03,589
I mean, it'll be pretty tough
to convince most people
1807
01:39:03,708 --> 01:39:06,564
that what you have here,
the way you live. the way you look
1808
01:39:06,685 --> 01:39:09,221
is better than a suburban life
1809
01:39:09,730 --> 01:39:12,690
well, I don't want to
convince anybody, I know it is
1810
01:39:12,810 --> 01:39:15,615
see, what I look like,
isn't necessarily what I feel like
1811
01:39:15,736 --> 01:39:19,535
I not claiming that I feel
as though I'm in some sort of..
1812
01:39:19,654 --> 01:39:20,727
Nirvana
1813
01:39:21,148 --> 01:39:21,803
but
1814
01:39:22,258 --> 01:39:26,209
but I'm claiming that if I lived in a
bedset in suburbia, I'd be so miserable
1815
01:39:26,329 --> 01:39:28,207
I'd feel like cutting my throat
1816
01:39:28,327 --> 01:39:30,376
and so, there is a slight difference
1817
01:39:30,746 --> 01:39:31,940
when I go home
1818
01:39:32,462 --> 01:39:36,060
I come.. I come in and
mummy gives me a cup of tea
1819
01:39:36,514 --> 01:39:38,340
and then I go out and play
1820
01:39:38,459 --> 01:39:42,173
and when it starts to get
dark I come in again
1821
01:39:42,442 --> 01:39:43,889
and put on TV
1822
01:39:44,009 --> 01:39:47,303
I don't think I was really taught
any sort of policy
1823
01:39:47,621 --> 01:39:51,137
of living at all by my parents
this is probably the biggest mistake
1824
01:39:51,257 --> 01:39:54,249
that I was just left to fend
for myself in a world which
1825
01:39:54,368 --> 01:39:56,451
they seem completely oblivious of
1826
01:39:56,571 --> 01:40:01,160
and I found even when I tried to discuss
problems which were facing me in school
1827
01:40:01,766 --> 01:40:05,524
my parents didn't seem to be
aware of the nature of the problem
1828
01:40:07,020 --> 01:40:08,350
we.. we made up
1829
01:40:09,358 --> 01:40:11,158
quite.. quite well after..
1830
01:40:12,722 --> 01:40:16,285
the bad times we went through
when I was in my early twenties
1831
01:40:17,950 --> 01:40:20,607
there's still.. there are
still awkward patches
1832
01:40:20,726 --> 01:40:21,431
but
1833
01:40:22,372 --> 01:40:24,075
I think suddenly
1834
01:40:24,194 --> 01:40:28,061
perhaps almost mutually, it
dawned upon us that
1835
01:40:29,128 --> 01:40:31,010
we were all making mistakes
1836
01:40:31,296 --> 01:40:32,010
and
1837
01:40:32,414 --> 01:40:35,205
and also that some of
the things we did couldn't be helped
1838
01:40:35,326 --> 01:40:36,063
and
1839
01:40:36,821 --> 01:40:37,866
i think now
1840
01:40:38,202 --> 01:40:40,321
perhaps the greatest
thing we achieved is
1841
01:40:40,441 --> 01:40:42,238
we know when to say nothing
1842
01:40:42,357 --> 01:40:45,652
and we know when to do nothing and we
know when to be tolerant of each other
1843
01:40:45,772 --> 01:40:47,030
and that's a great thing
1844
01:40:47,151 --> 01:40:48,403
that's really tremendous
1845
01:40:48,873 --> 01:40:51,092
what I'd like most of all would be
1846
01:40:53,262 --> 01:40:54,859
would be to be able to
1847
01:40:54,979 --> 01:40:56,676
to do something for my parents
1848
01:40:56,796 --> 01:40:59,266
when they are older,
to be there when..
1849
01:41:01,199 --> 01:41:03,217
when the time..
if necessary
1850
01:41:06,353 --> 01:41:10,040
Were they upset with what you
said about them in the last program?
1851
01:41:10,159 --> 01:41:11,520
I'm sure they were
1852
01:41:12,276 --> 01:41:12,950
but I..
1853
01:41:13,824 --> 01:41:15,351
I don't wish I hadn't said it
1854
01:41:15,471 --> 01:41:17,572
because I said exactly what was going
through my mind
1855
01:41:17,691 --> 01:41:19,136
I think I was very venomous
1856
01:41:19,256 --> 01:41:20,449
and I think I
1857
01:41:21,172 --> 01:41:23,241
had I been in an easier situation myself
1858
01:41:23,361 --> 01:41:25,410
had I had less worries,
myself at the time
1859
01:41:25,530 --> 01:41:27,327
I would have been
perhaps a little kinder
1860
01:41:27,448 --> 01:41:31,802
I had to take out my anger on somebody
and I think it came out on my parents
1861
01:41:33,701 --> 01:41:38,083
but perhaps unconsciously a lot of what
I said was what I did feel underneath
1862
01:41:39,898 --> 01:41:40,554
but
1863
01:41:41,714 --> 01:41:44,001
but I don't want the scar to remain
1864
01:41:44,556 --> 01:41:48,004
when I get married, I don't
want to have any children
1865
01:41:48,123 --> 01:41:49,012
because
1866
01:41:49,904 --> 01:41:54,949
because they are always doing naughty
things and making the whole house untidy
1867
01:41:55,697 --> 01:41:57,833
I always told myself that umm..
1868
01:41:58,640 --> 01:42:00,523
I would never have children
1869
01:42:02,305 --> 01:42:02,995
Why?
1870
01:42:03,735 --> 01:42:04,626
because..
1871
01:42:05,215 --> 01:42:06,170
because..
1872
01:42:06,591 --> 01:42:07,903
well, because..
1873
01:42:08,305 --> 01:42:10,846
children inherit something
from their parents
1874
01:42:10,965 --> 01:42:13,283
and even if my wife were the most
1875
01:42:14,007 --> 01:42:16,883
high spirited and ordinary
and normal of people
1876
01:42:17,841 --> 01:42:21,877
the child would still stand a fairly
good chance of being not totally
1877
01:42:23,673 --> 01:42:24,952
full of happiness
1878
01:42:25,072 --> 01:42:28,753
because of what he or she
will have inherited from me
1879
01:42:29,358 --> 01:42:32,082
poor people, I don't like them very much
1880
01:42:32,687 --> 01:42:36,331
no, it's the ghostly colored people
1881
01:42:36,835 --> 01:42:41,762
if you think of a purple person
with red eyes and yellow feet
1882
01:42:43,126 --> 01:42:46,237
I can't really think of
what they really look like
1883
01:42:47,297 --> 01:42:50,828
What goes through your mind when you
look at those two films?
1884
01:42:50,947 --> 01:42:53,736
When you are seven, bright and perky?
1885
01:42:55,553 --> 01:42:59,504
I find it hard to believe that I was
ever like that but there's the evidence
1886
01:42:59,623 --> 01:43:02,648
I wonder why I was like that
I wonder what it was
1887
01:43:02,918 --> 01:43:04,986
inside me that made me like that
1888
01:43:06,638 --> 01:43:09,935
and I can even see at fourteen that
I was beginning to get more subdued
14
1889
01:43:10,054 --> 01:43:12,692
and I was putting a lot more thought
into what I was saying
1890
01:43:12,813 --> 01:43:14,458
to a ridiculous degree
1891
01:43:17,177 --> 01:43:19,347
and probably when I was seven..
1892
01:43:21,078 --> 01:43:24,532
I lived in a wonderful world
where everything was sensation
1893
01:43:24,852 --> 01:43:26,996
and I could be happy obviously
but be miserable the next minute
1894
01:43:27,115 --> 01:43:31,744
I know at seven years old I was
fascinated by everything around me
1895
01:43:32,871 --> 01:43:35,812
the colors of things and
things that were funny
1896
01:43:36,199 --> 01:43:37,898
sounds that things made
1897
01:43:39,226 --> 01:43:43,048
I had, if you like, idiosyncratic views
1898
01:43:43,168 --> 01:43:46,545
about things that other
people hadn't even thought about
1899
01:43:47,369 --> 01:43:51,184
I remember I thought colored people
had purple noses and green legs
1900
01:43:51,305 --> 01:43:52,766
or something like that
1901
01:43:55,037 --> 01:43:57,171
perhaps I'm still looking for..
1902
01:43:58,754 --> 01:44:01,933
it's difficult to explain,
perhaps I'm still looking for..
1903
01:44:02,052 --> 01:44:04,740
the green nose and this sort of thing
1904
01:44:04,860 --> 01:44:06,271
and I know that..
1905
01:44:07,077 --> 01:44:09,920
that they are still there
that when you look at a human being
1906
01:44:10,040 --> 01:44:12,998
there's more.. there's
more to that person then..
1907
01:44:14,108 --> 01:44:15,734
just a.. just a robot
1908
01:44:17,299 --> 01:44:19,619
when I grow up I want to be an astronaut
1909
01:44:19,739 --> 01:44:23,639
but if I can't be an astronaut
I think I'll be a coach driver
1910
01:44:24,260 --> 01:44:26,948
this probably linked up now with
the fact that I want to travel
1911
01:44:27,069 --> 01:44:28,731
my thoughts haven't really changed
1912
01:44:28,851 --> 01:44:31,875
I definitely would like
to be a coach driver now
1913
01:44:33,422 --> 01:44:34,626
I suppose I..
1914
01:44:35,298 --> 01:44:36,357
yes, well..
1915
01:44:36,477 --> 01:44:39,199
I would like to be somebody
in a position of importance
1916
01:44:39,319 --> 01:44:41,268
and I've always thought this..
1917
01:44:41,755 --> 01:44:44,814
but I don't think I'm the right sort of
person to carry the responsibility
1918
01:44:44,934 --> 01:44:47,050
for whatever it is I always
thought, well, I'd love to be in
1919
01:44:49,220 --> 01:44:51,641
possibly even love to be in politics
1920
01:44:52,532 --> 01:44:53,676
something like this
1921
01:44:53,796 --> 01:44:54,533
but
1922
01:44:55,526 --> 01:45:00,570
I suppose I'd find it just as tedious
as all of the other jobs I've done so..
1923
01:45:02,251 --> 01:45:05,089
there were things I
always thought I could do
1924
01:45:06,315 --> 01:45:08,115
I could give lectures on..
1925
01:45:09,057 --> 01:45:11,361
erudite subjects I'd read all about
1926
01:45:12,641 --> 01:45:14,541
I could work in the theatre
1927
01:45:15,582 --> 01:45:17,365
perhaps lighting or
1928
01:45:18,837 --> 01:45:20,182
directing a show
1929
01:45:23,969 --> 01:45:25,870
And is all of that lost to you?
1930
01:45:25,990 --> 01:45:27,602
does seem to be, yes
1931
01:45:32,360 --> 01:45:34,883
I don't see anyway out, I've thought
of everything I possibly could
1932
01:45:35,002 --> 01:45:38,633
it seemed to me for a long time that
getting a reliable job
1933
01:45:38,752 --> 01:45:40,600
and a nice place to live
would be the solution
1934
01:45:40,720 --> 01:45:42,181
well, I haven't succeeded
1935
01:45:43,290 --> 01:45:45,745
I can't see any immediate future at all
1936
01:45:46,333 --> 01:45:46,990
but
1937
01:45:47,109 --> 01:45:48,586
here I am, I'm still
1938
01:45:48,906 --> 01:45:50,587
I've still got clothes on my back
1939
01:45:50,708 --> 01:45:53,363
not particularly nice clothes
but I've still got them
1940
01:45:53,482 --> 01:45:55,170
I have a place to go to
1941
01:45:56,516 --> 01:46:01,005
I have some prospects of work, I'm still
applying for jobs, I haven't given up
1942
01:46:01,746 --> 01:46:04,703
I think, I think I'm lucky
because I have met so many people
1943
01:46:04,823 --> 01:46:08,032
I've worked with people who have
no future whatsoever
1944
01:46:08,605 --> 01:46:10,555
for whom life is finished
completely at fifty
50
1945
01:46:10,675 --> 01:46:13,146
and yet somehow they have to keep going
1946
01:46:13,970 --> 01:46:14,709
and
1947
01:46:16,878 --> 01:46:20,995
I don't want it to seem
that I'm complaining too much
1948
01:46:24,393 --> 01:46:29,098
I feel, especially sometimes when I'm on
my own
1949
01:46:29,219 --> 01:46:32,059
that I'm loosing touch
with where people live
1950
01:46:34,329 --> 01:46:36,393
Do you worry about your sanity?
1951
01:46:40,495 --> 01:46:42,851
other people sometimes worry about it
1952
01:46:43,725 --> 01:46:44,683
Like who?
1953
01:46:49,515 --> 01:46:50,475
as I've said, I
1954
01:46:50,827 --> 01:46:52,960
sometimes can be found
1955
01:46:53,080 --> 01:46:55,734
behaving in an erratic fashion
1956
01:46:56,946 --> 01:46:59,804
sometimes I can get very
frustrated, very angry
1957
01:46:59,924 --> 01:47:02,579
for no apparent reason, for a
reason which won't be apparent
1958
01:47:02,699 --> 01:47:04,445
to other people around me
1959
01:47:06,918 --> 01:47:09,036
it's happened from time to time
1960
01:47:11,751 --> 01:47:13,416
Have you had treatment?
1961
01:47:14,442 --> 01:47:17,031
I've occasionally
had to see doctors, yes
1962
01:47:18,578 --> 01:47:20,461
I haven't had any treatment
1963
01:47:22,397 --> 01:47:24,465
And what have they said to you?
1964
01:47:25,407 --> 01:47:29,140
I've had a lot of advice
but you know the best medicine is..
1965
01:47:31,057 --> 01:47:32,094
kind words
1966
01:47:33,910 --> 01:47:35,003
and it usually comes
1967
01:47:35,122 --> 01:47:38,131
from somebody who has nothing to do
with the medical profession
1968
01:47:38,251 --> 01:47:41,898
which isn't to say that doctor's
can't be very helpful
1969
01:47:44,185 --> 01:47:46,388
but really, the thing
a sick person wants
1970
01:47:46,508 --> 01:47:49,347
is to be away from
doctors as soon as possible
1971
01:47:51,365 --> 01:47:53,566
What did they say was wrong with you?
1972
01:47:53,686 --> 01:47:56,341
well, I have always had a nervous
complain
1973
01:47:56,461 --> 01:47:58,543
I've had it since I was sixteen
1974
01:47:58,663 --> 01:48:00,712
it was responsible
for my leaving university
1975
01:48:00,833 --> 01:48:03,268
and some of my difficulties with work
1976
01:48:04,261 --> 01:48:06,934
but as you know, you can't avoid to
go around looking depressed
1977
01:48:07,054 --> 01:48:08,903
that in itself is bad enough
1978
01:48:09,294 --> 01:48:10,807
So can you lick it?
1979
01:48:13,566 --> 01:48:15,196
it remains to be seen
1980
01:48:16,626 --> 01:48:18,305
yes, I'd say I believed in god
1981
01:48:18,426 --> 01:48:19,785
Are you religious?
1982
01:48:21,081 --> 01:48:23,535
well, I go to church
with my parents on Sundays
1983
01:48:23,656 --> 01:48:26,798
I don't know now whether
I believe in god or not
1984
01:48:27,302 --> 01:48:30,951
I thought an awful lot about it actually
and I still don't know
1985
01:48:31,776 --> 01:48:35,405
but still I'm certain, if one were
to survive in this world
1986
01:48:35,526 --> 01:48:36,885
they'd have to believe in god
1987
01:48:37,006 --> 01:48:40,182
I don't think of god as a
creature but I think of..
1988
01:48:41,139 --> 01:48:42,196
something..
1989
01:48:42,802 --> 01:48:44,146
time.. destiny..
1990
01:48:44,988 --> 01:48:48,586
which is regulating everybody's affairs
and witch you cannot
1991
01:48:49,142 --> 01:48:51,562
you cannot fight against
and you cannot..
1992
01:48:51,682 --> 01:48:52,732
order about
1993
01:48:54,868 --> 01:48:57,070
And how has he been treating you?
1994
01:48:58,093 --> 01:49:00,259
well I said to somebody last week
1995
01:49:00,379 --> 01:49:03,363
that I preferred The Old Testament
to The New Testament
1996
01:49:03,483 --> 01:49:05,684
because in The Old Testament
1997
01:49:05,804 --> 01:49:07,602
god is very unpredictable
1998
01:49:08,829 --> 01:49:13,252
and that's, I think,
how I see him in my life
1999
01:49:13,372 --> 01:49:15,370
sometimes very benevolent
2000
01:49:16,044 --> 01:49:19,070
sometimes, seemingly, needlessly unkind
2001
01:49:19,962 --> 01:49:23,797
If we come back in seven years, how
would you like us to find you?
7
2002
01:49:26,134 --> 01:49:29,253
In a job, for which
I was getting satisfaction
2003
01:49:30,447 --> 01:49:31,338
married
2004
01:49:32,835 --> 01:49:34,416
probably with children
2005
01:49:34,820 --> 01:49:35,523
with
2006
01:49:36,364 --> 01:49:37,525
a good salary
2007
01:49:40,316 --> 01:49:44,234
enough to, as I said before,
live fairly comfortably
2008
01:49:46,212 --> 01:49:49,508
and with fiends whom
I could contact if I wanted to
2009
01:49:59,384 --> 01:50:02,294
I'm a lot happier now,
than I was seven years ago
2010
01:50:02,413 --> 01:50:05,691
I'm more content, I don't
have such dreadful yearnings
2011
01:50:06,532 --> 01:50:09,977
I don't feel so hopelessly
as if everything is against me
2012
01:50:11,474 --> 01:50:13,392
Do you think, what a waste?
2013
01:50:13,511 --> 01:50:14,754
yeah, perhaps
2014
01:50:16,368 --> 01:50:18,235
Why should you accept this?
2015
01:50:18,354 --> 01:50:20,353
You're better than
all of this aren't you?
2016
01:50:20,474 --> 01:50:23,784
I'm not better than anything or anybody
2017
01:50:23,904 --> 01:50:29,001
I'm just somebody with
my own particular difficulties
2018
01:50:29,120 --> 01:50:31,751
and my own
particular obstacles to select
2019
01:50:32,340 --> 01:50:35,619
and everybody else is doing
exactly the same thing
2020
01:50:40,435 --> 01:50:43,782
if we did all love Jeffery
and all wanted to marry him
2021
01:50:43,901 --> 01:50:46,421
-yes!
-I think I'd know the one he'd like
2022
01:50:46,541 --> 01:50:48,389
Jackie, Lynn, Susan
2023
01:50:49,398 --> 01:50:51,584
After primary school they separated
2024
01:50:51,704 --> 01:50:53,837
and at fourteen Lynn
was at grammar school
14
2025
01:50:53,957 --> 01:50:56,343
and Jackie and Susan
were at comprehensive.
2026
01:50:56,463 --> 01:50:58,292
we had a teacher at school
2027
01:50:58,982 --> 01:51:02,168
his favorite ploy was
2028
01:51:02,288 --> 01:51:06,078
all you girls want to do is walk out,
get married, have babies
2029
01:51:06,199 --> 01:51:10,165
and push a pram down the street with a
fag hanging outside your mouth
2030
01:51:10,895 --> 01:51:14,841
women are expanding into so
many different areas now that
2031
01:51:14,962 --> 01:51:17,086
it must be getting easier
2032
01:51:17,207 --> 01:51:20,470
Susan has been married four years
and has a son of two.
2033
01:51:20,773 --> 01:51:22,672
Her husband Billy is a gas fitter
2034
01:51:22,792 --> 01:51:26,372
and they live in a council
house in the east end of London.
2035
01:51:27,136 --> 01:51:27,809
75!
2036
01:51:30,584 --> 01:51:33,677
I'm lucky I expect
because I still manage to..
2037
01:51:34,179 --> 01:51:37,660
to do my own thing, I've got a husband
who lets me do what I want
2038
01:51:37,781 --> 01:51:39,780
and a mum who helps me out
2039
01:51:39,900 --> 01:51:41,647
you know, and I do
a little part time job
2040
01:51:41,766 --> 01:51:45,750
which is enough for me because I don't
think I could cope with a full time job
2041
01:51:45,870 --> 01:51:47,314
and I wouldn't want to personally
2042
01:51:47,434 --> 01:51:48,339
60!
2043
01:51:48,995 --> 01:51:52,405
Jackie was married at 19
and her husband is a decorator
19
2044
01:51:52,893 --> 01:51:55,634
She works for an
insurance company in the city
2045
01:51:55,754 --> 01:51:59,586
I certainly don't want to stay in the
position I am at the moment
2046
01:52:00,073 --> 01:52:01,429
forever and ever
2047
01:52:02,085 --> 01:52:04,086
but how ambitious, I'm not really sure
2048
01:52:04,206 --> 01:52:05,246
tends to..
2049
01:52:05,903 --> 01:52:07,819
change as you get older so..
2050
01:52:08,240 --> 01:52:10,358
just got to wait and see really
2051
01:52:10,980 --> 01:52:12,720
Lynn also married at 19,
19
2052
01:52:13,511 --> 01:52:17,008
her husband works at the post office
and they have two daughters.
2053
01:52:17,128 --> 01:52:20,321
They moved out of the Eastend to Kent
18 months ago.
18
2054
01:52:20,926 --> 01:52:23,021
I'm going to work in Woolworth's
2055
01:52:23,879 --> 01:52:27,559
At 21 Lynn was working in a mobile
library in Tower Hamlets
21
2056
01:52:27,679 --> 01:52:28,720
she's still there.
2057
01:52:28,840 --> 01:52:30,522
- have I stamped yours?
- yes
2058
01:52:30,908 --> 01:52:32,540
I've not stamped yours
2059
01:52:32,659 --> 01:52:33,952
Sleeping Beauty
2060
01:52:34,507 --> 01:52:37,904
teaching children the beauty of books
2061
01:52:38,392 --> 01:52:40,073
and watching their faces
2062
01:52:40,494 --> 01:52:42,209
as books unfold to them
2063
01:52:42,747 --> 01:52:44,122
is just fantastic
2064
01:52:44,425 --> 01:52:48,780
to work with children of that age you've
got to love them and I love children
2065
01:52:49,050 --> 01:52:52,665
but I know he loves her
and he loves her
2066
01:52:52,785 --> 01:52:54,398
- I don't, I love him!
2067
01:52:55,491 --> 01:52:56,987
I don't think I'd..
2068
01:52:58,804 --> 01:53:00,385
get married too early
2069
01:53:00,504 --> 01:53:02,503
I'd like to have a full
life first and
2070
01:53:02,624 --> 01:53:05,293
- you'd like to enjoy yourself before?
- meet people.. yeah
2071
01:53:05,412 --> 01:53:07,783
before you commit yourself
to a family
2072
01:53:07,904 --> 01:53:09,196
if you think that
2073
01:53:09,316 --> 01:53:11,458
getting married, as far as we
are concerned is a case of
2074
01:53:11,578 --> 01:53:15,508
going to work come home cook tea for
hubby go to bed getting up going to work
2075
01:53:15,628 --> 01:53:17,290
you're totally mistaken
2076
01:53:17,411 --> 01:53:20,486
Did you meet enough men before you
decided who you wanted to marry?
2077
01:53:20,606 --> 01:53:22,571
I've been married a year and..
2078
01:53:23,210 --> 01:53:24,605
a couple of months
2079
01:53:25,614 --> 01:53:28,097
you do think, christ, what
have I done?
2080
01:53:30,132 --> 01:53:33,579
- see I've still got my...
- and I'm being honest about it!
2081
01:53:33,966 --> 01:53:37,967
I think it's the same... you
think, christ, what have I done?
2082
01:53:38,638 --> 01:53:40,841
it is a partnership marriage, yes
2083
01:53:42,591 --> 01:53:45,144
we were married,
i'd say obviously, young
2084
01:53:46,390 --> 01:53:49,601
but because we wanted to go out and
have fun together
2085
01:53:50,324 --> 01:53:51,838
and grow together
2086
01:53:52,375 --> 01:53:54,546
I'm not sure I would recommend it
2087
01:53:54,866 --> 01:53:56,801
I think if...
2088
01:53:57,373 --> 01:53:59,575
but again you are
generalizing, I mean if..
2089
01:53:59,696 --> 01:54:01,670
I would say on average
2090
01:54:02,410 --> 01:54:04,108
19 is probably too young
19
2091
01:54:04,798 --> 01:54:07,167
I've had a good time
up till I was 24
24
2092
01:54:07,790 --> 01:54:08,512
and
2093
01:54:08,883 --> 01:54:10,513
and I think that to get married young
2094
01:54:10,633 --> 01:54:15,004
there must be things that you miss,
you must miss that crucial stage
2095
01:54:15,360 --> 01:54:16,687
of being yourself
2096
01:54:16,808 --> 01:54:19,260
because the minute you
get married, you're no longer
2097
01:54:19,380 --> 01:54:20,573
a single being
2098
01:54:20,692 --> 01:54:24,171
you're a partnership and that
should be the idea behind it
2099
01:54:24,457 --> 01:54:29,283
if I could, I would have two girls
and two boys - yeah, so would I
2100
01:54:29,569 --> 01:54:31,219
And what about you Jackie?
2101
01:54:31,338 --> 01:54:36,902
my mum... because she's got five
girls, she's got seven years bad luck
2102
01:54:37,023 --> 01:54:39,038
that's why she's got five girls
2103
01:54:39,157 --> 01:54:40,726
I'd like to be able..
2104
01:54:41,163 --> 01:54:42,777
to have a happy family
2105
01:54:43,281 --> 01:54:46,443
I mean I know that it's
not possible to happy all of the time
2106
01:54:46,563 --> 01:54:49,083
but as much of the time as was possible
2107
01:54:49,756 --> 01:54:52,050
go through there, that's the nursery
2108
01:54:52,588 --> 01:54:54,825
-got any plans
-oh, do me a favor
2109
01:54:55,177 --> 01:54:57,869
at 21 Jackie had moved into
a new house
21
2110
01:54:58,760 --> 01:55:01,263
she has decided not to have any children
2111
01:55:01,734 --> 01:55:04,795
basically, I would say because
I am far too selfish
2112
01:55:05,098 --> 01:55:06,036
I enjoy
2113
01:55:06,693 --> 01:55:09,803
doing what I want, when I
want and how I want and..
2114
01:55:10,611 --> 01:55:12,545
certainly at the moment I..
2115
01:55:13,604 --> 01:55:15,603
can't see any way around that
2116
01:55:16,746 --> 01:55:20,043
that's not to say
that's a forever decision
2117
01:55:20,163 --> 01:55:23,574
some people can make it work, I
just don't think I could
2118
01:55:24,252 --> 01:55:26,572
You don't think you're missing
out on what they have?
2119
01:55:26,691 --> 01:55:28,489
Their stake in the future?
2120
01:55:29,245 --> 01:55:29,986
no..
2121
01:55:30,473 --> 01:55:33,965
that's a very... that's a terrible
way to put it, you know
2122
01:55:34,436 --> 01:55:36,504
I mean, that makes you
sound like you're saying
2123
01:55:36,624 --> 01:55:38,405
"right, great, we're
going to have a child"
2124
01:55:38,524 --> 01:55:40,052
and that.. that's us
2125
01:55:40,423 --> 01:55:43,299
I do feel to a degree that
yes I am missing out
2126
01:55:43,585 --> 01:55:45,653
but I think I also get far more
2127
01:55:47,015 --> 01:55:48,343
pleasure out of
2128
01:55:49,585 --> 01:55:52,461
I'm gaining far more experience
by not having that tie
2129
01:55:52,581 --> 01:55:53,739
when I got married
2130
01:55:53,859 --> 01:55:55,874
the primary reason was because I
2131
01:55:55,994 --> 01:55:59,304
wanted to have a child
the two, to me, went together
2132
01:56:01,071 --> 01:56:03,524
I can understand Jackie's decision
because
2133
01:56:03,643 --> 01:56:06,821
I think there is sill
a lot of pressure put on
2134
01:56:06,941 --> 01:56:09,966
young married couples to have children
as though it was expected of them
2135
01:56:10,085 --> 01:56:12,698
and I think it's all wrong, it's just a
personal decision
2136
01:56:12,819 --> 01:56:14,303
that everyone is entitled to make
2137
01:56:14,423 --> 01:56:16,322
and knowing what it
does to your life I can
2138
01:56:16,441 --> 01:56:18,962
fully understand someone
who decides not to
2139
01:56:19,081 --> 01:56:23,218
what would you do if
you had lots of money about.. like 2 pounds
20
2140
01:56:23,337 --> 01:56:26,918
I would by me self
a new house, you know
2141
01:56:27,523 --> 01:56:29,909
one that's all nice and comfy
2142
01:56:30,481 --> 01:56:33,020
Do you get depressed by money problems?
2143
01:56:33,794 --> 01:56:34,685
no, why?
2144
01:56:35,038 --> 01:56:36,366
why should you?
2145
01:56:36,888 --> 01:56:39,461
if can manage with what you got?
-it's easy to get depressed over money
2146
01:56:39,580 --> 01:56:41,915
-it's so easy to but why should you?
2147
01:56:42,035 --> 01:56:44,437
- why bother about it
- when I reach the 18th day of the month
18
2148
01:56:44,556 --> 01:56:46,067
when my mortgage is due on the 20th
20
2149
01:56:46,186 --> 01:56:48,044
and there's nowhere near
enough money in there
2150
01:56:48,164 --> 01:56:50,171
I get depressed about it obviously
2151
01:56:51,079 --> 01:56:52,220
what money?
2152
01:56:52,971 --> 01:56:57,593
it was hard, first of all, when I gave
up work from having a fairly high salary
2153
01:56:59,359 --> 01:57:00,823
to nothing was hard
2154
01:57:01,579 --> 01:57:04,906
but you get used to it
whatever your circumstances are
2155
01:57:05,915 --> 01:57:09,682
you live in them, you get used to it,
you cope, everybody does
2156
01:57:09,802 --> 01:57:12,794
I think before going to a
grammar school, I just
2157
01:57:13,483 --> 01:57:15,197
you know, comprehensive school
2158
01:57:15,318 --> 01:57:18,696
it just seem more friendly, you know,
and at the time it was but now
2159
01:57:18,816 --> 01:57:20,412
now they are really different
2160
01:57:20,533 --> 01:57:23,304
-grammar schools are fantastic
-if you say so
2161
01:57:24,229 --> 01:57:26,908
we've heard that it doesn't
scratch the bottom, why am I using
2162
01:57:27,028 --> 01:57:29,794
wooden spoon please?
to stir this saucepan..
2163
01:57:30,450 --> 01:57:34,281
I don't think anybody influenced
me, it was a conscious decision
2164
01:57:35,072 --> 01:57:36,720
obviously, the decision
2165
01:57:36,989 --> 01:57:38,619
was discussed at home
2166
01:57:38,739 --> 01:57:39,427
but
2167
01:57:40,722 --> 01:57:42,247
it was always in me
2168
01:57:43,978 --> 01:57:44,887
to go
2169
01:57:45,006 --> 01:57:47,947
there may come a time, perhaps
later on when I regret
2170
01:57:48,434 --> 01:57:49,325
not having..
2171
01:57:49,445 --> 01:57:53,866
we are talking about examination results
really, that's what it boils down to
2172
01:57:54,623 --> 01:57:55,919
and.. I got..
2173
01:57:56,657 --> 01:58:00,439
and I got some examination results and
O levels and GCSEs or whatever
2174
01:58:00,560 --> 01:58:01,718
I didn't need them
2175
01:58:01,837 --> 01:58:04,189
for the jobs I decided to do, so
2176
01:58:04,310 --> 01:58:07,300
with this school, we do
metal work and woodwork
2177
01:58:07,421 --> 01:58:08,915
and the boys do cookery
2178
01:58:09,034 --> 01:58:11,890
and we get a share
of everything.. sort of thing
2179
01:58:12,011 --> 01:58:13,757
most parents would want
2180
01:58:14,094 --> 01:58:16,616
every advantage they can
get for their child, now
2181
01:58:16,736 --> 01:58:19,341
whether you class going to
grammar school as an advantage
2182
01:58:19,460 --> 01:58:21,778
is dependent on you entire outlook
2183
01:58:22,493 --> 01:58:23,586
if you don't
2184
01:58:24,023 --> 01:58:26,513
class it as an advantage then you
are not going to push that
2185
01:58:26,632 --> 01:58:29,640
my mum left me, she knew
I could go to grammar
2186
01:58:29,977 --> 01:58:30,699
and
2187
01:58:31,389 --> 01:58:33,337
and I decided that I didn't want to
2188
01:58:33,457 --> 01:58:36,718
she encouraged me in
the choice that I made and
2189
01:58:36,837 --> 01:58:38,894
right or wrong that was my choice
2190
01:58:39,015 --> 01:58:41,006
as much as I was capable
of making a decision
2191
01:58:41,125 --> 01:58:41,824
and
2192
01:58:42,093 --> 01:58:43,186
I enjoyed myself
2193
01:58:43,306 --> 01:58:48,281
my father recently go education, he
never went to the local comprehensive
2194
01:58:48,752 --> 01:58:50,282
but at the same time
2195
01:58:52,015 --> 01:58:56,010
I don't think he was too worried
which way I was decided to go
2196
01:58:57,070 --> 01:58:59,543
I think he probably knew
me better than I did
2197
01:58:59,662 --> 01:59:03,696
which was basically, I was a
very lazy person academically
2198
01:59:03,816 --> 01:59:07,186
and I think I would have
found grammar school bullshit
2199
01:59:07,306 --> 01:59:09,524
Do you have any regrets about it?
2200
01:59:09,644 --> 01:59:11,733
umm.. no, no
2201
01:59:12,019 --> 01:59:15,113
you can only have regrets about things
if you're not happy with the way you are
2202
01:59:17,164 --> 01:59:20,542
You look at the old film and you see
yourselves as seven,
2203
01:59:20,828 --> 01:59:22,576
do you think you've changed?
2204
01:59:22,697 --> 01:59:24,863
no, I don't think I have really
2205
01:59:24,984 --> 01:59:27,201
we're the same people as we were then
2206
01:59:27,322 --> 01:59:29,867
I was always chatty,
Jackie was always chatty
2207
01:59:29,988 --> 01:59:32,261
and Lynn was always the quieter one
2208
01:59:32,380 --> 01:59:34,314
But is that depressing
or frightening to think
7
2209
01:59:34,433 --> 01:59:37,055
we're all set by the time
we're seven and that's it?
2210
01:59:37,176 --> 01:59:40,226
I don't think one's set
by that age, you progress
2211
01:59:40,346 --> 01:59:40,999
but
2212
01:59:41,119 --> 01:59:43,730
the overall character
is there to come up
2213
01:59:45,075 --> 01:59:46,724
I think the basics are there
2214
01:59:46,843 --> 01:59:48,792
yeah, the basics are there
2215
01:59:48,911 --> 01:59:51,886
But why is it that you three
haven't changed so much do you think?
2216
01:59:52,006 --> 01:59:55,518
- we'll probably never know that
- I think we've all had
2217
01:59:55,939 --> 02:00:00,985
we've all had a stable background with
stable relationships all the way through
2218
02:00:02,600 --> 02:00:04,989
the same people are there now
that were there then
2219
02:00:05,108 --> 02:00:08,100
the poor, if you don't help then
soon they'll sort of
2220
02:00:08,219 --> 02:00:09,596
die soon, wouldn't they?
2221
02:00:09,715 --> 02:00:13,211
well, some people are just born
into rich families and they're lucky
2222
02:00:13,332 --> 02:00:16,498
I don't see why they should have to luck
when people have worked all their lives
2223
02:00:16,617 --> 02:00:19,047
and haven't got half
as much as what they have
2224
02:00:19,167 --> 02:00:20,914
it just doesn't seem fair
2225
02:00:21,033 --> 02:00:23,638
I've had the opportunities
in life that I've wanted
2226
02:00:23,758 --> 02:00:27,186
- I'll say I've had more!
- yeah, you may
2227
02:00:27,455 --> 02:00:30,311
So you three working class
girls don't feel
2228
02:00:30,631 --> 02:00:32,598
bitter about a society
2229
02:00:33,254 --> 02:00:37,257
that maybe gives one strata of it
more opportunities than another?
2230
02:00:39,762 --> 02:00:40,402
no
2231
02:00:41,545 --> 02:00:42,596
not bitter
2232
02:00:42,715 --> 02:00:43,974
not at all
2233
02:00:44,387 --> 02:00:47,918
I don't event think, to be honest,
we consciously think about it
2234
02:00:48,038 --> 02:00:51,079
until this program comes
up once every seven years
2235
02:00:51,199 --> 02:00:53,736
I really don't think
we even think about it
2236
02:00:53,856 --> 02:00:56,074
I don't not sit there thinking
2237
02:00:56,982 --> 02:00:59,135
"he actually was born into money!"
2238
02:00:59,254 --> 02:01:00,446
"he's had more opportun.."
2239
02:01:00,567 --> 02:01:03,115
I mean it just doesn't
even cross my mind
2240
02:01:04,174 --> 02:01:08,295
I think we all could have gone in
whatever way we wanted to at the time
2241
02:01:08,414 --> 02:01:10,581
within our capabilities, I mean
2242
02:01:11,338 --> 02:01:13,675
we chose our own jobs
2243
02:01:14,685 --> 02:01:17,493
we were able to chose our
own jobs quite freely
2244
02:01:17,614 --> 02:01:22,083
if you've got a comfortable background
then perhaps it can make life easy
2245
02:01:22,204 --> 02:01:24,419
but I think you've also seen
2246
02:01:25,075 --> 02:01:27,849
within this program that it
doesn't always work that way
2247
02:01:27,970 --> 02:01:29,296
In some respects
2248
02:01:29,902 --> 02:01:31,129
I think that..
2249
02:01:32,576 --> 02:01:33,996
the boys and Suzi
2250
02:01:35,275 --> 02:01:36,317
didn't have
2251
02:01:37,208 --> 02:01:39,008
didn't have such an
open choice as we had
2252
02:01:39,127 --> 02:01:42,522
it was mapped out for such an early
age as to where they were going
2253
02:01:42,641 --> 02:01:43,380
and
2254
02:01:43,649 --> 02:01:45,319
and they had to live up
2255
02:01:46,076 --> 02:01:48,683
it's a hard thing
living up to parental..
2256
02:01:50,683 --> 02:01:52,702
- expectations
- expectations
2257
02:01:57,846 --> 02:02:01,190
before I'm old and that,
enough to get a job
2258
02:02:01,963 --> 02:02:03,561
I'll just walk around
2259
02:02:04,537 --> 02:02:05,967
and see what I can find
2260
02:02:06,086 --> 02:02:08,404
I was going to be a film star but..
2261
02:02:09,952 --> 02:02:12,995
now I'm going to be
an electrical engineer
2262
02:02:13,115 --> 02:02:14,644
which is more to reality, really
2263
02:02:14,764 --> 02:02:17,829
I often say I'm saving to
settle down with Yvonne
2264
02:02:18,851 --> 02:02:22,416
and then I think to myself "nah
I might buy a car instead"
2265
02:02:22,535 --> 02:02:23,946
since 21
21
2266
02:02:26,352 --> 02:02:27,631
I've got married
2267
02:02:28,034 --> 02:02:29,581
had a couple of kids
2268
02:02:30,254 --> 02:02:31,179
and um..
2269
02:02:33,533 --> 02:02:37,332
well, I don't think there's anybody else
I could have ever married except Yvonne
2270
02:02:37,452 --> 02:02:39,585
it gives me my life really because
2271
02:02:39,705 --> 02:02:42,545
we're together, we have the
children and everything
2272
02:02:42,665 --> 02:02:45,404
And what is it with Yvonne
that you fell in love with?
2273
02:02:45,525 --> 02:02:46,901
her nature, really
2274
02:02:47,423 --> 02:02:49,324
it's always quite thoughtful
2275
02:02:50,215 --> 02:02:52,098
except when she's laughing
2276
02:02:52,218 --> 02:02:54,553
Tell me, do you have any girlfriends?
2277
02:02:54,673 --> 02:02:55,913
well, not many
2278
02:02:56,351 --> 02:02:58,083
What do you think about girls?
2279
02:02:58,202 --> 02:02:59,293
oh, not much
2280
02:03:01,799 --> 02:03:06,188
When you decided to have the five, did
you want to have them close together?
2281
02:03:06,307 --> 02:03:07,043
yeah
2282
02:03:07,346 --> 02:03:12,273
because if you separated your kids
and say one is fifteen and one is six
15 6
2283
02:03:12,811 --> 02:03:15,653
such an age gap that
they could never get on
2284
02:03:16,409 --> 02:03:19,719
they'd never grow up together,
they won't know each other
2285
02:03:19,839 --> 02:03:22,411
Why did you want to have
a large family?
2286
02:03:22,999 --> 02:03:25,756
well I wouldn't really
call it a large family
2287
02:03:26,465 --> 02:03:29,374
Well, I think it is large
by average standards.
2288
02:03:29,494 --> 02:03:30,265
yeah?
2289
02:03:31,359 --> 02:03:33,075
we just wanted five kids
2290
02:03:33,194 --> 02:03:36,269
you know, we got exactly what we want,
three boys and two girls
2291
02:03:38,977 --> 02:03:42,845
no, no... that's exactly...
it's a handful, you know
2292
02:03:43,148 --> 02:03:45,334
Do you push your
kids at school?
2293
02:03:45,704 --> 02:03:47,521
Those that go to
school already?
2294
02:03:47,640 --> 02:03:50,209
no, I don't push them,
I encourage them in what..
2295
02:03:50,329 --> 02:03:53,403
when they come home
and I come home in the evening
2296
02:03:53,723 --> 02:03:55,674
they tell me what they've done
2297
02:03:55,793 --> 02:03:59,761
and if they've done anything
bad I tell them where they've gone wrong
2298
02:04:00,096 --> 02:04:01,021
and if they..
2299
02:04:01,828 --> 02:04:02,855
want um..
2300
02:04:04,015 --> 02:04:06,687
what's the word?
not encouragement.. praise
2301
02:04:07,056 --> 02:04:08,216
for what they've done
2302
02:04:08,570 --> 02:04:10,757
then I'll give it to them
if they've done well, yeah
2303
02:04:10,876 --> 02:04:14,658
Do you see maybe your kids
are going to be smarter than you are?
2304
02:04:15,498 --> 02:04:18,979
well, yeah there's a couple of them
already that are gonna be smarter
2305
02:04:19,100 --> 02:04:20,963
How are you going to handle that?
2306
02:04:21,084 --> 02:04:22,195
um...
2307
02:04:22,934 --> 02:04:24,750
I'll keep them on my side
2308
02:04:25,675 --> 02:04:28,147
they say, "where's your father, then?"
2309
02:04:28,268 --> 02:04:31,747
you know, when your mum's out at work
instead of your father
2310
02:04:31,867 --> 02:04:33,832
I just tell'em I ain't got one
2311
02:04:39,314 --> 02:04:40,861
What effect has that had on you?
2312
02:04:43,046 --> 02:04:46,208
well, I don't think it's had any
effect on me because
2313
02:04:48,453 --> 02:04:50,371
what you don't have you don't miss
2314
02:04:51,217 --> 02:04:52,545
twenty years ago
20
2315
02:04:54,161 --> 02:04:59,255
when I was born, you know, an
illegitimate child that's..
2316
02:04:59,575 --> 02:05:01,708
something that is only whispered about
2317
02:05:01,828 --> 02:05:02,633
people
2318
02:05:02,753 --> 02:05:03,911
you know, feel
2319
02:05:04,197 --> 02:05:06,718
feel strongly about it
in those days but nowadays..
2320
02:05:06,838 --> 02:05:07,628
it's..
2321
02:05:09,864 --> 02:05:11,258
it's not a serious matter
2322
02:05:11,378 --> 02:05:14,756
the serious point is whether you stay
with somebody or you leave them
2323
02:05:14,876 --> 02:05:18,203
What would you like to give your
children that you never had?
2324
02:05:18,323 --> 02:05:19,885
they've got everything
2325
02:05:20,205 --> 02:05:22,386
they've even got what I never had
2326
02:05:22,856 --> 02:05:23,512
so..
2327
02:05:23,632 --> 02:05:25,479
- Which is what?
- a father, isn't it?
2328
02:05:25,599 --> 02:05:27,616
so, I mean, they've had everything
2329
02:05:27,736 --> 02:05:32,080
I feel like bundling when there's
already a.. when there's already a fight
2330
02:05:34,232 --> 02:05:36,940
Simon was brought up in a
children's home.
2331
02:05:37,360 --> 02:05:40,760
He went back to live with
his mother when he was thirteen.
13
2332
02:05:40,879 --> 02:05:44,022
I was at a boarding school and
I liked the discipline
2333
02:05:44,142 --> 02:05:46,023
it gave me a kind of freedom
2334
02:05:46,629 --> 02:05:48,377
Do you encourage
that with your children?
2335
02:05:48,497 --> 02:05:51,216
yeah, I like to encourage that, they go
to bed the same time every night
2336
02:05:51,336 --> 02:05:54,595
and they get up round about the
same time every morning
2337
02:05:55,330 --> 02:05:57,500
and they go to school the
same time everyday
2338
02:05:57,619 --> 02:06:00,746
you know, it's good to
have discipline and routine
2339
02:06:01,284 --> 02:06:05,320
But what about in your life? Do
you think there has been too routine?
2340
02:06:05,439 --> 02:06:06,665
no, not really
2341
02:06:06,786 --> 02:06:10,197
I mean, somebody else might think so
yeah but I enjoy
2342
02:06:10,819 --> 02:06:13,695
having a routine and I enjoyed knowing
where I was going to be next
2343
02:06:13,814 --> 02:06:15,612
and what I had to do next
2344
02:06:15,914 --> 02:06:18,888
because that sort of relieved
me from responsibilities
2345
02:06:19,847 --> 02:06:24,034
At 21 he was working in the freezer room
of Wall's Sausages in London.
21
2346
02:06:25,581 --> 02:06:28,436
How do you see the future?
As far as work goes.
2347
02:06:29,025 --> 02:06:33,228
well, I know I can't stay at Wall's
forever, I mean, this is just not me
2348
02:06:33,580 --> 02:06:36,758
I couldn't stay there for
that long, my mind would go dead
2349
02:06:37,313 --> 02:06:40,926
how long have I been there? about eight
or nine years or something like that
2350
02:06:41,046 --> 02:06:44,626
there's a lot of people I know there now
when I first went there, I mean...
2351
02:06:44,745 --> 02:06:46,257
it's getting to know people, now
2352
02:06:46,378 --> 02:06:49,621
that I've been there so long, I know
practically everybody who's in there
2353
02:06:49,740 --> 02:06:53,168
now I don't think my mind will go dead
because I have a lot to talk about
2354
02:06:53,289 --> 02:06:55,942
everyday go to work,
you know there's always
2355
02:06:56,061 --> 02:06:58,549
somebody says something smart, you know
2356
02:06:59,103 --> 02:07:00,095
someday..
2357
02:07:02,803 --> 02:07:04,821
I'll be just like anybody else
2358
02:07:06,502 --> 02:07:08,384
nothing too marvelous
2359
02:07:09,579 --> 02:07:11,950
I feel okay just getting on with life
2360
02:07:12,219 --> 02:07:13,883
just sort of keeping up
2361
02:07:14,758 --> 02:07:17,649
but I know if I really wanted to
I could get on
2362
02:07:18,136 --> 02:07:21,113
it would only take a little spark
in me to do it
2363
02:07:21,516 --> 02:07:23,484
I'm quite happy to stay there
2364
02:07:24,139 --> 02:07:27,398
doesn't look like it's going
to close down, so, I mean
2365
02:07:28,105 --> 02:07:29,888
better the devil you know, isn't it
2366
02:07:30,007 --> 02:07:32,907
Do you ever feel you should be doing
better jobs than these?
2367
02:07:33,027 --> 02:07:34,455
Aren't you worth more than this?
2368
02:07:34,574 --> 02:07:36,385
no, I haven't really
2369
02:07:36,505 --> 02:07:39,278
I suppose I just like
hard work, I don't know
2370
02:07:39,398 --> 02:07:40,270
but um..
2371
02:07:41,850 --> 02:07:43,258
it's never really
2372
02:07:43,378 --> 02:07:44,805
sort of worried me
2373
02:07:45,309 --> 02:07:47,765
I suppose it should, but it just doesn't
2374
02:07:48,320 --> 02:07:50,539
not really interested in moving up
2375
02:07:50,842 --> 02:07:51,818
up the scale
2376
02:07:52,103 --> 02:07:52,794
why?
2377
02:07:54,526 --> 02:07:56,511
I don't need the hassle of being a
2378
02:07:56,630 --> 02:07:58,864
charger or the manager or whatever
2379
02:07:59,319 --> 02:08:01,034
I had a dream when
2380
02:08:01,154 --> 02:08:04,767
when all the world was on top of me
2381
02:08:04,887 --> 02:08:05,726
and
2382
02:08:05,845 --> 02:08:10,182
and everything was...
and I just about got out
2383
02:08:10,302 --> 02:08:12,343
and everything flew in the air
2384
02:08:12,931 --> 02:08:14,848
and it all landed on my head
2385
02:08:15,958 --> 02:08:18,665
see, I mean everybody's got
the same start
2386
02:08:18,968 --> 02:08:21,422
they've got that little bit of
grey matter in their head
2387
02:08:21,543 --> 02:08:23,482
and it depends how they use it
2388
02:08:23,953 --> 02:08:25,467
and for what purpose
2389
02:08:26,560 --> 02:08:30,680
yeah, if you're just going to be like me
and take it easy for you life
2390
02:08:31,487 --> 02:08:33,652
if you're going to be somebody
who really wants to go far
2391
02:08:33,772 --> 02:08:34,897
well you have to push yourself
2392
02:08:35,318 --> 02:08:37,386
if you don't push yourself,
you won't go up
2393
02:08:37,507 --> 02:08:40,222
And did you want to go far?
Push yourself?
2394
02:08:41,734 --> 02:08:42,575
um...
2395
02:08:42,861 --> 02:08:45,215
no, I want to get
through life nice and easy
2396
02:08:47,032 --> 02:08:50,932
Simon and his family live in a
Council Flat in Southwold, London
2397
02:08:52,730 --> 02:08:55,000
What do you think about rich people?
2398
02:08:55,656 --> 02:08:56,430
well..
2399
02:08:57,961 --> 02:08:58,836
not much
2400
02:08:59,710 --> 02:09:00,754
Tell me about them.
2401
02:09:00,873 --> 02:09:04,890
well they think they can do everything
without you doing it as well
2402
02:09:05,010 --> 02:09:07,699
rich people, they have
all different things
2403
02:09:07,818 --> 02:09:10,437
they have everything they want
whereas poor people
2404
02:09:10,558 --> 02:09:14,271
they don't have nothing
and they know they haven't got nothing
2405
02:09:14,793 --> 02:09:17,467
and so they know
they are missing something
2406
02:09:18,662 --> 02:09:20,309
What are you missing?
2407
02:09:21,150 --> 02:09:23,572
well, I'm missing a bike and
2408
02:09:25,321 --> 02:09:26,767
a fishing rod
2409
02:09:28,079 --> 02:09:31,051
Are you envious of people
who have a lot of money?
2410
02:09:31,172 --> 02:09:33,019
no, I may have been but
2411
02:09:33,139 --> 02:09:35,171
I can't envy them now because
2412
02:09:35,541 --> 02:09:37,086
I've got what I want so
2413
02:09:37,207 --> 02:09:40,434
there's nothing that anyone can give
me that's going to make me any happier
2414
02:09:40,553 --> 02:09:43,259
I could save for months and then
one day just go out and spend it
2415
02:09:43,379 --> 02:09:46,638
and that's that I would
feel quite happy about it
2416
02:09:46,759 --> 02:09:49,582
I wouldn't worry
about getting the next penny
2417
02:09:49,902 --> 02:09:53,178
if you don't plan anything,
you'll never get by anyway
2418
02:09:53,298 --> 02:09:56,187
you could have millions and you
wouldn't know what to do with it
2419
02:09:56,308 --> 02:09:59,114
if you just keep spending it, you have
to know what you are spending
2420
02:10:04,965 --> 02:10:06,966
everybody's gotta get used to
2421
02:10:07,234 --> 02:10:08,933
knowing colored people
2422
02:10:09,740 --> 02:10:12,639
and colored people in turn
have got to get used to
2423
02:10:12,759 --> 02:10:14,437
being with white people
2424
02:10:16,020 --> 02:10:18,878
because if either side
doesn't work properly
2425
02:10:18,997 --> 02:10:21,064
then no side will work properly
2426
02:10:21,383 --> 02:10:23,822
they're just the same as me aren't they?
2427
02:10:23,941 --> 02:10:28,211
I mean, do you think it's hard being
a black man in English society today?
2428
02:10:28,968 --> 02:10:30,683
It depends what you want, isn't it?
2429
02:10:30,802 --> 02:10:33,786
if you just want to live in the
society, no it's not hard
2430
02:10:33,907 --> 02:10:37,216
if you want to fight the society,
yes it would be hard
2431
02:10:37,620 --> 02:10:39,486
And have you ever wanted to fight it?
2432
02:10:39,607 --> 02:10:41,993
not really, no
there's no need for it
2433
02:10:42,112 --> 02:10:44,746
I've been to Madame Tussauds
with my mum
2434
02:10:45,706 --> 02:10:46,698
and the..
2435
02:10:48,227 --> 02:10:49,337
planetarium
2436
02:10:53,491 --> 02:10:55,241
Do you want to go abroad?
2437
02:10:56,183 --> 02:10:57,023
um...
2438
02:10:58,554 --> 02:10:59,277
yeah
2439
02:11:00,270 --> 02:11:02,136
I'd like to go to Majorca
2440
02:11:03,633 --> 02:11:06,706
and take a couple of weeks
out there for everything
2441
02:11:08,136 --> 02:11:09,280
relax myself
2442
02:11:09,917 --> 02:11:12,727
I think I might like to, sort of,
go out of this country
2443
02:11:12,846 --> 02:11:14,811
probably just for a holiday
2444
02:11:14,931 --> 02:11:17,173
first... somewhere... anywhere...
2445
02:11:18,115 --> 02:11:19,579
and then sort of..
2446
02:11:20,335 --> 02:11:21,428
think about
2447
02:11:21,548 --> 02:11:23,135
settling down somewhere else
2448
02:11:23,254 --> 02:11:24,884
I mean, I could have got a job
2449
02:11:25,003 --> 02:11:25,691
in..
2450
02:11:26,229 --> 02:11:27,658
some foreign parts
2451
02:11:28,196 --> 02:11:30,972
working for some an auto.. packing firm
2452
02:11:31,946 --> 02:11:35,000
but when it came down to it I didn't
want to move, I didn't want to leave
2453
02:11:35,119 --> 02:11:36,076
so, I mean
2454
02:11:36,631 --> 02:11:38,683
I've probably got a
very narrow view
2455
02:11:38,803 --> 02:11:41,558
of life because I don't
really like traveling
2456
02:11:42,841 --> 02:11:45,078
Does that worry you that you have that
narrow view? - worry me?
2457
02:11:45,197 --> 02:11:47,432
you keep asking if things worry me, no
2458
02:11:48,306 --> 02:11:50,055
Does it concern you then?
2459
02:11:50,744 --> 02:11:52,728
yeah, that's a different word
2460
02:11:53,166 --> 02:11:55,591
no, not really
it doesn't really concern me
2461
02:11:55,711 --> 02:11:57,659
And what would you want for the future?
2462
02:11:57,779 --> 02:12:00,215
watching my kids growing up and when
they're grown up
2463
02:12:00,335 --> 02:12:02,990
maybe seeing their children
grow up as well
2464
02:12:03,110 --> 02:12:07,330
Looking at some of the earlier films it
would seem that you had a sad childhood.
2465
02:12:07,450 --> 02:12:11,956
You didn't have a dad and you
didn't have a lot of material things.
2466
02:12:12,393 --> 02:12:14,966
no, I wouldn't really
call that a sad life
2467
02:12:15,085 --> 02:12:17,083
it's a different life to
somebody with everything or
2468
02:12:17,203 --> 02:12:19,648
thinks they have
everything but I mean
2469
02:12:20,359 --> 02:12:21,655
it doesn't matter if you've got
2470
02:12:22,041 --> 02:12:24,699
everything, all of the
material things in the world, I mean
2471
02:12:24,819 --> 02:12:27,841
you're not going to be happy anyway
because you'll still want the next thing
2472
02:12:27,961 --> 02:12:29,153
down the road
2473
02:12:38,157 --> 02:12:41,151
At the end of their very
special day in London
2474
02:12:41,271 --> 02:12:43,892
after their trip to the
zoo and the party
2475
02:12:44,414 --> 02:12:47,264
we took our children to
an adventure play ground
2476
02:12:47,384 --> 02:12:49,938
where they could do
just what they liked
2477
02:12:52,082 --> 02:12:55,446
Those from a children's home
set about building a house.
2478
02:13:08,355 --> 02:13:09,734
There's Nicholas.
2479
02:13:16,008 --> 02:13:17,032
And Tony.
2480
02:13:26,763 --> 02:13:27,653
Andrew.
2481
02:13:35,810 --> 02:13:36,650
And Bruce.
2482
02:13:42,519 --> 02:13:43,334
John.
2483
02:13:48,161 --> 02:13:48,918
Suzie.
2484
02:13:51,717 --> 02:13:53,400
Jackie and her friends.
2485
02:13:59,784 --> 02:14:02,122
Give me a child until he is seven...
7
2486
02:14:02,408 --> 02:14:04,291
and I will give you the man.
2487
02:14:13,237 --> 02:14:16,297
This has been a glimpse
of Britain's future.
208024
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.