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ALAN BATES: The computer system Post
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is faulty.
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I haven't got that money!
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The losses must have been caused
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You're inside subpostmasters'
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We're ready to mount
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Mr Rutherford's organisation,
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will be working for us, the MPs,
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They had no right
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They destroyed our whole life...
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Alan, it's Paula Vennells.
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Where do we go from here?
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Sorry, Martin, I hit every red
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You get later every day.
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You don't get no more cheerful, pal.
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Just need to get home.
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They're all long days.
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Any specials with these?
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Giro pouch. Cheque pouch.
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I'll have to come back for them.
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WEARILY: Oh.
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MEN SHOUT,
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AGGRESSIVE SHOUTING
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MARTIN YELLS IN PAIN
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Please! No... don't...!
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Don't!
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MUFFLED SHOUTS
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Stay there! Don't look at me!
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YELLING CONTINUES
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Come on, hurry up!
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Please!
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Go, go, go, go!
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MARTIN YELLS
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HE YELPS AND GASPS
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Martin, let's talk about
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The total loss to Post Office funds
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The police were there
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They got most of it back.
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This is a culpability interview,
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You had the parcel hatch open
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In accordance with section 12,
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of the subpostmasters' contract...
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..you're bound to take
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to safeguard official cash
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DOOR CLOSES
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You are therefore contractually
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Seven and a half thousand pounds?
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So now the armed robbery
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It wasn't the robbery
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Sacked? What?
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I'm already under investigation
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and now the robbery.
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Three months' notice.
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Oh, Martin.
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For four years of, every day,
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For what?
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For the day to end.
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"Terminated for continued
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"not operating individual
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' "Failure to make good losses
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'They're just going on'
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and on about the contract
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never accepting
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How big did the shortfalls get?
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£61,000 altogether.
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'They've had our savings already.
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'And our parents'.'
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Alan, we've nothing left to give.
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OK.
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JO: Every time we meet,
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There's the vegetarian ones...
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..and we're always ravenous.
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Have we eaten Alan?
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That phone is a full-time job.
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LEE: And the effect it had
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I mean, not just me and Lisa,
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I mean, we had to move
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cos of the bullying.
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And then our daughter,
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..just stopped eating.
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It was anorexia.
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And they say don't blame yourselves.
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Yeah, of course you do.
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Jo's always been very kind to us,
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We call her, "Mum".
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If she's Mum, what's Alan?
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CHUCKLING: We don't call him Dad.
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Alan's the godfather.
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Shall we, eh, crack on?
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Yep. The Don has spoken.
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You all right?
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The thing is, Alan, I'm not sure
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I just had endless power cuts.
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36 of them in one day.
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If you get a power cut in the
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No wonder it comes out wrong.
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You see, erm, my husband died...
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and I took over.
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It was just before
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But then they didn't put the new
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Oh, Pam. Really?
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Doesn't it just go to show
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they can be about
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I told them
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.."If you can prove
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"then send the police round,
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Since then, I have not slept.
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And I've been scared
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expecting that knock on the door.
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I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.
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You've got nothing to
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I'm just so... I'm just so angry.
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I hate being so angry!
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If I ever say
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remind me about people like Pam.
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So, to, er, to recap, er,
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my chat with Paula Vennells has
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and mediation scheme which
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for the compensation we deserve.
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Even people like me and Jo?
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Alan's got their commitment here
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The Post Office says
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through the mediation scheme,
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even if you've already received
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or been subject to a criminal
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If we got our money back.
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And our good names.
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An apology, even.
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Steady on.
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So, with your agreement,
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Kay and I will defend your interests
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We will look into each individual
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I know, but, Alan,
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I mean, do we trust them? Really?
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Well...
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..they're putting money
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and it's coming from the top, so...
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Well, it's got to be worth a try.
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Shall we have a vote?
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All those in favour?
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Great.
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42 pence change.
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Book of six first-class stamps,
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£3.60.
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LOUDER: £3.60.
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GINA: 'For a long time,
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'of stealing from the tills.
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'The bad feeling
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'But if it wasn't them,
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'like he's stupid, which he isn't.'
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That was before - before we knew
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Can I talk to him?
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'Well, he won't talk to me
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It drives me mad.
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I know he's got depression.
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He's a proud father, and I think
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'Failed our family.'
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Gina...
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put him on.
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Love.
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It's Alan Bates.
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He wants to talk to you.
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Please, Martin.
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Martin?
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'Yes.'
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Listen. Martin...
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you're not alone.
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There's a lot of us, and...
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'there's a new scheme
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'I'm going to send you the forms.
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'Martin, you might get
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Erm...
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AGITATED: ..I can't talk to you
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Ma...
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People are trying to help here!
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'I'm so sorry. Erm...'
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He's just... He's...
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I'll send you the forms,
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It's important.
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I'll try.
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Bloody traffic.
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Hi.
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I'm a little late for a meeting
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Bob. Good to see you.
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Susan's left us.
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Why?
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New times, new opportunities.
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Moving forward,
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'This is Susan Crichton.
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'Thank you for NOT leaving
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Bob...
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..we need to talk.
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'I'm not bloody signing up
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The Post Office want me to stay on,
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They've unilaterally taken away
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the legal and prosecution files.
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I can't investigate in a blindfold
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Alan, professionally,
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Bob, grit your teeth.
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We can't do this without you.
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I don't know
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You do know why.
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because we can't afford to go
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You're an idiot to trust them, Alan.
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I think they're mostly
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And I think they're wasting
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Bob, if you walk away now,
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you'll never find out
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what they knew and when.
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And you'll never find out what
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BOB CHUCKLES
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We must both be mad.
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We are. Pint?
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GINA: Big day tomorrow.
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Your appeal against dismissal.
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Martin.
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Why don't I run you a bath?
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I'm all right. I'm OK, I'm OK.
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Please let me wash these clothes,
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Don't you wanna wash your hair,
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For tomorrow!
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NERVOUSLY: It's a big day.
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All I'm saying is...
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..we could just make a little bit
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Gina, leave me alone, please.
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OK.
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'We've been over this.'
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A parcel hatch is about that big.
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Then you've got a sack of mail,
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You know how big
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Once they were in with weapons,
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what would you do if they threatened
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ON RADIO: I hope you're having
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The time is now coming up to 6:20AM,
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and it's time
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It looks like there's congestion
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and it's building up
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Martin?
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You're off early, love.
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RADIO CONTINUES
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Sorry.
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Morning.
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We don't know.
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It's not working.
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It's...
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Can we have a word in private?
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ALAN ON PHONE: Yes.
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OK.
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No, I...
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Hmm. Of course.
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Thanks for letting me know.
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He never regained consciousness.
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God.
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Gina's had to agree
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Oh, Alan!
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Blood on their hands now.
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He had kids, Lee.
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I know.
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I expect he thought
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Are you doing it, ever?
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No. Not really.
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GASPS
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Sorry. SOBS: Sorry.
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..think about it. I'm sorry.
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Don't you...
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I can't have you feeling bad about
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I'd have just walked away.
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I could have just shut the shop.
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Just put us on a slow boat
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And they'd have chased us all the
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They were never going to let go.
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Hey.
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I know you did it for us.
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GINA: I can't think straight.
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I don't know what to do.
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It's really very good of you
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We're all so sorry for your loss.
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It was four days
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and he still hadn't told the staff
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Yes, it's very hard.
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And his appeal
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against being fined for the robbery,
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They didn't decide one way
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Stressful.
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Obviously.
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I used to get so cross with him,
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I never did understand the problem,
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and he couldn't explain it,
289
00:19:40,959 --> 00:19:41,959
and saying he was desperate.
290
00:19:41,959 --> 00:19:44,959
He was really desperate.
291
00:19:44,959 --> 00:19:47,959
Every morning, the same words.
292
00:19:47,959 --> 00:19:49,959
"I hate it."
293
00:19:53,959 --> 00:19:56,959
"I can't bear it."
294
00:19:59,959 --> 00:20:01,959
For years.
295
00:20:05,959 --> 00:20:07,479
Can you imagine?
296
00:20:13,959 --> 00:20:15,959
We, er...
297
00:20:17,959 --> 00:20:20,959
..we're going to do right by you,
298
00:20:20,959 --> 00:20:23,319
You can rely on us.
299
00:20:26,959 --> 00:20:27,959
Yeah.
300
00:20:28,959 --> 00:20:31,959
ANGELA: So, as we launch
301
00:20:31,959 --> 00:20:33,959
I can confirm our agreement
302
00:20:33,959 --> 00:20:36,479
that Martin Griffiths' case
303
00:20:36,479 --> 00:20:38,800
as a priority by this working group.
304
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,000
Now, you've also received
305
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,959
that any approaches to Gina
306
00:20:46,959 --> 00:20:50,959
Yes. Yes, we are happy
307
00:20:50,959 --> 00:20:54,959
Shall we declare this mediation
308
00:20:54,959 --> 00:20:57,959
We have a long list
309
00:20:57,959 --> 00:20:59,959
So let's get started.
310
00:21:01,959 --> 00:21:05,160
Right, then, start with Martin.
311
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,319
First things first...
312
00:21:07,319 --> 00:21:08,959
Mr Griffiths.
313
00:21:08,959 --> 00:21:11,959
INTERVIEWER ON RADIO:
314
00:21:11,959 --> 00:21:13,959
'Government subsidy on its way out.
315
00:21:13,959 --> 00:21:16,959
'That means a reckoning
316
00:21:16,959 --> 00:21:18,640
VENNELLS: 'It does, absolutely.'
317
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,959
And the whole point
318
00:21:20,959 --> 00:21:24,959
is to make sure we have models
319
00:21:24,959 --> 00:21:26,959
'And my ambition would be...'
320
00:21:26,959 --> 00:21:29,959
'..that within three to four
321
00:21:29,959 --> 00:21:31,959
..the Post Office doesn't need
322
00:21:31,959 --> 00:21:35,959
to support those post offices
323
00:21:35,959 --> 00:21:38,640
'So, Paula,
324
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,959
'you're CEO of the Post Office...'
325
00:21:41,959 --> 00:21:43,959
'..but you're also a priest
326
00:21:43,959 --> 00:21:45,959
'How do you combine
327
00:21:45,959 --> 00:21:48,959
Very good, thank you.
328
00:21:48,959 --> 00:21:50,959
Good to see you.
329
00:21:50,959 --> 00:21:54,959
Just one thing.
330
00:21:54,959 --> 00:21:57,959
Anything in it?
331
00:21:57,959 --> 00:22:02,319
Horizon.
332
00:22:04,959 --> 00:22:05,959
Well, er...
333
00:22:07,959 --> 00:22:10,319
Well, after two and a half years
334
00:22:10,319 --> 00:22:13,959
it is now clear
335
00:22:13,959 --> 00:22:15,959
and works as it should.
336
00:22:15,959 --> 00:22:17,959
Thank you.
337
00:22:23,959 --> 00:22:25,959
'And God said to Solomon...'
338
00:22:25,959 --> 00:22:29,959
"Ask for whatever
339
00:22:29,959 --> 00:22:32,959
And Solomon said...
340
00:22:32,959 --> 00:22:35,959
"Give your servant
341
00:22:35,959 --> 00:22:37,959
"to govern your people
342
00:22:37,959 --> 00:22:40,959
"and to distinguish
343
00:22:41,959 --> 00:22:45,959
The Lord was pleased
344
00:22:45,959 --> 00:22:48,959
So God said to him...
345
00:22:48,959 --> 00:22:50,959
"I will do what you have asked.
346
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:57,800
"I will give you
347
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,160
PAM: I've been preparing for this
348
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,959
You will remember
349
00:23:07,959 --> 00:23:10,959
the ARQ data from your system,
350
00:23:10,959 --> 00:23:13,959
so that I could see
351
00:23:13,959 --> 00:23:16,319
from my till in my branch.
352
00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:17,959
I kept everything, you see.
353
00:23:17,959 --> 00:23:20,479
Now, you told me
354
00:23:20,479 --> 00:23:22,959
I wouldn't be capable
355
00:23:22,959 --> 00:23:26,959
because I was a silly woman
356
00:23:27,959 --> 00:23:30,959
Anyway, may I direct you
357
00:23:33,959 --> 00:23:36,959
Now, you will clearly see
358
00:23:36,959 --> 00:23:40,959
when money alterations
359
00:23:40,959 --> 00:23:44,959
but not by me,
360
00:23:45,959 --> 00:23:48,959
There is no functionality
361
00:23:48,959 --> 00:23:50,959
to remotely access branch terminals.
362
00:23:50,959 --> 00:23:53,959
LAUGHS INCREDULOUSLY
363
00:23:53,959 --> 00:23:56,959
Mrs Stubbs,
364
00:23:56,959 --> 00:23:58,959
at this mediation meeting,
365
00:23:58,959 --> 00:24:02,160
we are under no legal
366
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,959
to do anything whatsoever.
367
00:24:04,959 --> 00:24:07,959
And we are working on the principle
368
00:24:07,959 --> 00:24:10,959
which says that if you lose money,
369
00:24:12,959 --> 00:24:14,959
Well...
370
00:24:14,959 --> 00:24:17,319
I'm finished with this, actually.
371
00:24:17,319 --> 00:24:18,959
I'm finished with you.
372
00:24:18,959 --> 00:24:20,959
See, I think you're lying to me.
373
00:24:20,959 --> 00:24:24,959
Mrs Stubbs, calm...
374
00:24:24,959 --> 00:24:28,959
And I'm going to tell
375
00:24:28,959 --> 00:24:31,959
May I remind you that you have
376
00:24:31,959 --> 00:24:35,959
I'll talk to anyone who will listen,
377
00:24:35,959 --> 00:24:38,959
and I will prove
378
00:24:38,959 --> 00:24:41,479
Mrs Stubbs, this will have
379
00:24:41,479 --> 00:24:45,319
You want to take me to court?
380
00:24:50,959 --> 00:24:53,640
'The way they treat people...
381
00:24:54,959 --> 00:24:56,959
'They are despicable!
382
00:24:56,959 --> 00:24:59,959
'I have never, ever been made
383
00:24:59,959 --> 00:25:01,959
AUDIO BREAKS UP
384
00:25:01,959 --> 00:25:04,319
Pam? Pam?
385
00:25:04,319 --> 00:25:05,959
You're... You're breaking up.
386
00:25:05,959 --> 00:25:08,959
I mean, are they lying
387
00:25:10,959 --> 00:25:12,160
Hello?
388
00:25:16,959 --> 00:25:21,160
For a while there,
389
00:25:23,959 --> 00:25:26,959
..you got close to trusting them,
390
00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:30,959
Maybe...
391
00:25:30,959 --> 00:25:34,959
despite every awful story
392
00:25:34,959 --> 00:25:37,479
despite all the work we've done,
393
00:25:37,479 --> 00:25:38,959
they still don't get it.
394
00:25:40,959 --> 00:25:43,959
They actually believe they're right.
395
00:25:43,959 --> 00:25:45,959
I understand your impatience,
396
00:25:45,959 --> 00:25:47,479
But, Alan, really?
397
00:25:47,479 --> 00:25:50,959
Four closely typed
398
00:25:50,959 --> 00:25:53,959
"Finding the truth is the last thing
399
00:25:53,959 --> 00:25:57,959
Well, that's been our experience
400
00:25:57,959 --> 00:25:59,959
Well, will you at least acknowledge
401
00:25:59,959 --> 00:26:00,959
that, before writing to
402
00:26:00,959 --> 00:26:04,800
it might possibly have been useful
403
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,160
Martin Griffiths is dead.
404
00:26:10,959 --> 00:26:12,319
Yes, I know.
405
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,959
I, too, am concerned
406
00:26:16,959 --> 00:26:19,959
mediation is taking,
407
00:26:19,959 --> 00:26:25,479
I'm sorry, James, but, ha, these
408
00:26:25,479 --> 00:26:28,319
Well, let's just ask Paula
409
00:26:31,959 --> 00:26:34,959
'No, we have not dragged our feet.'
410
00:26:34,959 --> 00:26:38,959
I've had 22 people working on this,
411
00:26:38,959 --> 00:26:41,959
But not a single case finalised.
412
00:26:41,959 --> 00:26:43,959
And now I am told
413
00:26:43,959 --> 00:26:44,959
of their mediation meetings.
414
00:26:44,959 --> 00:26:48,959
Yes, it has taken longer
415
00:26:48,959 --> 00:26:50,959
As chief executive
416
00:26:50,959 --> 00:26:54,479
I could not put this scheme in place
417
00:26:54,479 --> 00:26:57,640
The system... and the people
418
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:58,959
are too important for that.
419
00:26:58,959 --> 00:27:01,959
Well, at least we can agree
420
00:27:01,959 --> 00:27:04,959
Let's be clear,
421
00:27:04,959 --> 00:27:06,479
of miscarriage of justice.
422
00:27:07,959 --> 00:27:09,959
Our lawyers advise the correct route
423
00:27:09,959 --> 00:27:12,959
for challenges
424
00:27:12,959 --> 00:27:15,959
is via the Criminal Cases
425
00:27:15,959 --> 00:27:16,959
Hold on.
426
00:27:16,959 --> 00:27:19,959
No, you made promises, Paula.
427
00:27:19,959 --> 00:27:21,959
that my constituent, Jo Hamilton,
428
00:27:21,959 --> 00:27:25,959
whom I believe was wrongly convicted
429
00:27:25,959 --> 00:27:27,959
would be eligible for mediation.
430
00:27:27,959 --> 00:27:30,959
Our lawyers advise
431
00:27:30,959 --> 00:27:33,959
has the power to overturn
432
00:27:33,959 --> 00:27:35,160
Paula, this is quite wrong.
433
00:27:36,959 --> 00:27:38,959
You have broken your word to me.
434
00:27:38,959 --> 00:27:42,319
And you have broken your word
435
00:27:43,959 --> 00:27:45,959
You have broken your word
436
00:27:52,959 --> 00:27:54,959
JAMES ARBUTHNOT:
437
00:27:54,959 --> 00:27:57,479
'to Members of Parliament
438
00:27:57,479 --> 00:28:01,160
'It may, of course, be that
439
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,959
'was infiltrated
440
00:28:03,959 --> 00:28:08,959
'I have met a lot of these people,
441
00:28:08,959 --> 00:28:11,959
'Frankly, I no longer trust
442
00:28:11,959 --> 00:28:14,959
'and will not be negotiating
443
00:28:14,959 --> 00:28:17,800
'It has spent public money
444
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,959
'that it has set out to sabotage.'
445
00:28:20,959 --> 00:28:23,959
He says he can get some interest
446
00:28:23,959 --> 00:28:25,959
Oh, not another talking shop.
447
00:28:25,959 --> 00:28:28,959
Personally,
448
00:28:28,959 --> 00:28:31,640
Probably more than Paula.
449
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:35,959
PAULA VENNELLS: Is it possible to
450
00:28:35,959 --> 00:28:37,959
I hope it is
451
00:28:37,959 --> 00:28:39,959
and that we're able to explain
452
00:28:39,959 --> 00:28:43,479
I need to be able to say,
453
00:28:43,479 --> 00:28:46,160
"and we're sure of this
454
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:47,959
I need the facts.
455
00:28:52,959 --> 00:28:54,959
That's Paula.
456
00:28:54,959 --> 00:28:56,959
JO: She looks very smart.
457
00:28:56,959 --> 00:28:58,959
Very corporate.
458
00:29:00,959 --> 00:29:02,959
Who's the other one?
459
00:29:02,959 --> 00:29:04,959
Angela van den Bogerd.
460
00:29:04,959 --> 00:29:07,959
The gruesome twosome.
461
00:29:07,959 --> 00:29:10,959
Don't they have any blokes
462
00:29:11,959 --> 00:29:14,959
'I have spent a lot
463
00:29:14,959 --> 00:29:16,319
Yes! Come on, Bob.
464
00:29:16,319 --> 00:29:19,959
..requesting access to documents
465
00:29:19,959 --> 00:29:24,959
One issue we're looking into relates
466
00:29:24,959 --> 00:29:27,959
Now, we first requested
467
00:29:27,959 --> 00:29:30,479
almost two years ago,
468
00:29:30,479 --> 00:29:32,959
and we have still not been provided
469
00:29:32,959 --> 00:29:35,640
Erm, may I respond?
470
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,959
We did provide
471
00:29:38,959 --> 00:29:40,959
that Second Sight requested.
472
00:29:40,959 --> 00:29:43,800
Unfortunately,
473
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:44,959
were for the wrong year.
474
00:29:44,959 --> 00:29:48,959
That seems to me an amazing error.
475
00:29:48,959 --> 00:29:50,959
Are there any other issues?
476
00:29:50,959 --> 00:29:52,959
Probably most important
477
00:29:52,959 --> 00:29:56,959
to the legal and prosecution files
478
00:29:56,959 --> 00:29:58,959
Paula, why don't you
479
00:29:58,959 --> 00:30:00,959
What's the problem?
480
00:30:00,959 --> 00:30:04,319
The point I want to pick up first,
481
00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:05,959
Answer my question.
482
00:30:07,959 --> 00:30:10,800
Er, it is the first time,
483
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:11,959
I'm happy to go away
484
00:30:11,959 --> 00:30:14,959
They've been told that
485
00:30:14,959 --> 00:30:16,959
could they be given those files.
486
00:30:16,959 --> 00:30:17,959
Is that right or wrong?
487
00:30:17,959 --> 00:30:20,959
I... I do not recall that, no.
488
00:30:20,959 --> 00:30:23,959
And you can piss right off.
489
00:30:23,959 --> 00:30:26,959
That sounds to me like a shambles.
490
00:30:26,959 --> 00:30:28,959
We are hearing from Bob
491
00:30:28,959 --> 00:30:30,959
that your organisation
492
00:30:30,959 --> 00:30:32,479
to his independent work.
493
00:30:32,479 --> 00:30:34,319
Is that right or wrong?
494
00:30:34,319 --> 00:30:36,959
We have provided,
495
00:30:36,959 --> 00:30:39,640
detailed, thorough,
496
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,959
Let me stop you there.
497
00:30:41,959 --> 00:30:44,959
who is independent,
498
00:30:44,959 --> 00:30:46,959
You are the head
499
00:30:46,959 --> 00:30:49,959
Will you provide the information,
500
00:30:49,959 --> 00:30:52,959
This is the first time that I have
501
00:30:52,959 --> 00:30:55,000
Yes or no?
502
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,959
Will you provide it? Yes or no?
503
00:30:57,959 --> 00:30:59,959
'Give me a simple answer.'
504
00:30:59,959 --> 00:31:01,959
'I am not prepared, on behalf
505
00:31:01,959 --> 00:31:04,959
I think I've got my answer.
506
00:31:04,959 --> 00:31:08,640
No, you have not got your answer.
507
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:10,800
I am simply saying, at the moment,
508
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,959
I am not able to answer
509
00:31:12,959 --> 00:31:14,959
Honestly,
510
00:31:14,959 --> 00:31:16,959
that you don't seem to know anything
511
00:31:16,959 --> 00:31:19,959
about an issue that is so
512
00:31:19,959 --> 00:31:23,640
I know a huge amount about this.
513
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,640
You are the chief executive,
514
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:27,959
It does stop with me.
515
00:31:27,959 --> 00:31:30,319
I am not denying at all
516
00:31:30,319 --> 00:31:31,479
Of course there are.
517
00:31:31,479 --> 00:31:33,959
There are problems
518
00:31:33,959 --> 00:31:36,959
But this is about the reputation
519
00:31:36,959 --> 00:31:38,959
SUZANNE: 'What?!'
520
00:31:38,959 --> 00:31:42,959
No, it's not! It's about
521
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,479
Slaughtered her.
522
00:31:52,479 --> 00:31:56,160
Paula's face.
523
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,000
Gina Griffiths has pulled out
524
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,800
Well, that can't be right.
525
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,959
Unless they went to her
526
00:32:04,959 --> 00:32:08,479
What kind of people go back
527
00:32:09,959 --> 00:32:12,959
GINA:
528
00:32:12,959 --> 00:32:15,959
Not, you know, life-changing.
529
00:32:15,959 --> 00:32:19,160
And in return,
530
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,959
I've got nothing coming in, Alan.
531
00:32:21,959 --> 00:32:25,160
I was gonna have to sell the house
532
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,959
I imagine they also got you to sign
533
00:32:29,959 --> 00:32:33,640
promising not to talk to anyone
534
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,800
I shouldn't even be speaking to you.
535
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,319
They rang up, Alan.
536
00:32:39,319 --> 00:32:42,959
If I didn't say yes
537
00:32:44,959 --> 00:32:45,959
I'm sorry.
538
00:32:45,959 --> 00:32:48,959
It's all right, really.
539
00:32:48,959 --> 00:32:50,959
I understand.
540
00:32:51,959 --> 00:32:53,319
Well...
541
00:32:54,959 --> 00:32:55,959
I don't blame you.
542
00:32:57,959 --> 00:33:00,959
When Angela came to see me...
543
00:33:00,959 --> 00:33:02,959
Angela Van den Bogerd came here?
544
00:33:02,959 --> 00:33:06,959
She was nice... I thought. Kind.
545
00:33:08,959 --> 00:33:12,959
Now I don't know about any of them.
546
00:33:12,959 --> 00:33:16,959
We just... cling to a notion,
547
00:33:18,959 --> 00:33:21,959
That people can't be that bad.
548
00:33:28,959 --> 00:33:30,959
PHONE RINGS
549
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,959
ANGELA: 'Alan?'
550
00:33:39,959 --> 00:33:40,959
Hello, Angela.
551
00:33:40,959 --> 00:33:43,959
Oh, good news.
552
00:33:43,959 --> 00:33:45,319
No more reports for Bob to write.
553
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:47,959
No more need for you
554
00:33:47,959 --> 00:33:48,959
No more working group meetings.
555
00:33:48,959 --> 00:33:51,959
'A new way forward.'
556
00:33:51,959 --> 00:33:53,959
You're closing down
557
00:33:53,959 --> 00:33:56,800
No, no, no. No, no... no.
558
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,959
Not... Not closing it down.
559
00:33:59,959 --> 00:34:02,800
'We're taking it in-house.
560
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,959
'We'll decide each case
561
00:34:05,959 --> 00:34:06,959
Closing it down.
562
00:34:06,959 --> 00:34:09,959
After 18 months,
563
00:34:09,959 --> 00:34:12,959
to speed things along now,
564
00:34:15,959 --> 00:34:18,959
Well, if that's what you want to do.
565
00:34:18,959 --> 00:34:20,959
Right.
566
00:34:21,959 --> 00:34:23,959
Well, good to talk.
567
00:34:23,959 --> 00:34:24,959
'Bye, Alan.'
568
00:34:24,959 --> 00:34:26,959
Goodbye, Angela.
569
00:34:41,959 --> 00:34:43,959
Oh, you sods.
570
00:34:44,959 --> 00:34:46,959
Suzanne?
571
00:34:52,959 --> 00:34:54,959
PHONE RINGS
572
00:34:56,959 --> 00:34:58,800
BOB: I'm calling to tell you
573
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,959
that I'm not allowed
574
00:35:01,959 --> 00:35:04,959
Sacked again, eh? That was quick.
575
00:35:04,959 --> 00:35:06,959
Well, I considered pointing out
576
00:35:06,959 --> 00:35:09,959
to just kick you and me
577
00:35:09,959 --> 00:35:12,959
Well, they're not allowed
578
00:35:12,959 --> 00:35:14,959
or breaking their promises.
579
00:35:14,959 --> 00:35:17,959
But since when
580
00:35:17,959 --> 00:35:19,959
'They are not just dropping us,
581
00:35:19,959 --> 00:35:21,959
'They're rubbing our noses in it.'
582
00:35:21,959 --> 00:35:27,000
They're making us destroy or return
583
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:32,159
The whole investigation.
584
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:34,959
'I'm so sorry, Alan.'
585
00:35:38,959 --> 00:35:40,959
Nice knowing you, Bob.
586
00:35:42,959 --> 00:35:45,479
Yeah. Goodbye, Alan.
587
00:35:45,479 --> 00:35:46,959
Cheers.
588
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:54,959
Love?
589
00:36:01,959 --> 00:36:04,800
Oh, there you are.
590
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,959
They're going ahead -
591
00:36:07,959 --> 00:36:11,000
without anyone fighting.
592
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,959
Did look at paint charts, but...
593
00:36:13,959 --> 00:36:16,959
in the end,
594
00:36:16,959 --> 00:36:21,320
I'll get it done this weekend,
595
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,959
You what?
596
00:36:25,959 --> 00:36:28,479
Yeah, so, erm...
597
00:36:30,959 --> 00:36:32,959
..test came back positive.
598
00:36:37,959 --> 00:36:42,479
Hardly time to catch a cold,
599
00:36:49,959 --> 00:36:52,800
You'll outlive me.
600
00:36:54,959 --> 00:36:56,000
Yeah.
601
00:36:58,959 --> 00:36:59,959
They'll operate.
602
00:37:00,959 --> 00:37:02,959
It'll be fine.
603
00:37:02,959 --> 00:37:06,320
I'll live. I want to live.
604
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,639
I have to.
605
00:37:08,639 --> 00:37:10,159
See some bastards go to prison.
606
00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:12,320
SHE SNIFFS,
607
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:19,959
I'll put the kettle on.
608
00:37:30,479 --> 00:37:32,639
INDISTINCT CHATTER
609
00:37:47,959 --> 00:37:50,959
Mm. Still here, then?
610
00:37:52,959 --> 00:37:54,959
Tough old bird.
611
00:37:57,959 --> 00:37:59,959
I've, er...
612
00:38:01,479 --> 00:38:04,959
I've been thinking.
613
00:38:04,959 --> 00:38:05,959
No, no.
614
00:38:08,639 --> 00:38:12,959
If we can't find a lawyer
615
00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:16,959
..maybe it's time to call it a day.
616
00:38:20,959 --> 00:38:22,159
You once said to me,
617
00:38:22,159 --> 00:38:24,800
"If I ever start talking
618
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:25,959
That was then.
619
00:38:25,959 --> 00:38:29,959
Don't you dare give up
620
00:38:29,959 --> 00:38:33,800
Well, I'm not.
621
00:38:34,959 --> 00:38:37,959
..12 years is long enough
622
00:38:37,959 --> 00:38:40,479
to keep banging my head
623
00:38:40,479 --> 00:38:43,959
Don't you dare!
624
00:38:43,959 --> 00:38:45,959
Cos that would mean
625
00:38:45,959 --> 00:38:47,959
meant nothing, too.
626
00:38:49,959 --> 00:38:51,159
OK.
627
00:38:51,159 --> 00:38:53,959
New plan, then.
628
00:38:53,959 --> 00:38:56,959
Oh, well, maybe you could've
629
00:38:56,959 --> 00:39:00,959
What about if we all apply,
630
00:39:00,959 --> 00:39:04,479
to see everything
631
00:39:04,479 --> 00:39:08,959
Horizon logs, investigation reports,
632
00:39:08,959 --> 00:39:12,959
And, er...
633
00:39:12,959 --> 00:39:14,479
I think we've got
634
00:39:14,479 --> 00:39:16,639
SPEECH FADES OUT
635
00:39:18,959 --> 00:39:20,959
JO: You have a lovely day.
636
00:39:20,959 --> 00:39:24,320
And don't dawdle
637
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,639
Are you gonna come in and help?
638
00:39:26,639 --> 00:39:28,959
No, darling, not today.
639
00:39:30,959 --> 00:39:33,800
Bye-bye, Joshua.
640
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:34,959
Granny Jo loves you.
641
00:39:36,959 --> 00:39:38,000
Bye-bye.
642
00:39:39,959 --> 00:39:42,959
You were only gonna be
643
00:39:42,959 --> 00:39:45,959
Yeah, it's not the school's fault.
644
00:39:45,959 --> 00:39:47,959
They can't let me be alone
645
00:39:47,959 --> 00:39:49,959
when they know
646
00:39:50,959 --> 00:39:52,959
Oh, God.
647
00:39:53,959 --> 00:39:57,479
Come on.
648
00:39:57,479 --> 00:39:59,639
TV PLAYING
649
00:40:02,959 --> 00:40:05,959
SHE GRUNTS
650
00:40:05,959 --> 00:40:06,959
SHE SIGHS
651
00:40:07,959 --> 00:40:10,959
This all right?
652
00:40:10,959 --> 00:40:13,959
It's fine. Love a toast-based meal.
653
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,959
Are you all right?
654
00:40:24,959 --> 00:40:26,959
Yeah.
655
00:40:26,959 --> 00:40:30,959
Never was any good to me, was it,
656
00:40:30,959 --> 00:40:32,959
Never did manage to pop
657
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,959
And, you know...
658
00:40:37,959 --> 00:40:40,959
the life we ended up having...
659
00:40:40,959 --> 00:40:43,959
maybe it's OK
660
00:40:55,959 --> 00:40:57,959
I'm here, sorry.
661
00:40:57,959 --> 00:41:00,959
Oh, I think this might be
662
00:41:00,959 --> 00:41:03,959
Exciting.
663
00:41:06,959 --> 00:41:08,959
Cheers. 'Do they think
664
00:41:08,959 --> 00:41:12,959
'146 pages blacked out.
665
00:41:12,959 --> 00:41:17,959
Can you make any sense
666
00:41:17,959 --> 00:41:19,159
No, I can't tell, it's all black.
667
00:41:19,159 --> 00:41:20,959
But I'll tell you
668
00:41:20,959 --> 00:41:23,000
The memo from my investigator.
669
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,959
The one where he admitted
670
00:41:25,959 --> 00:41:29,479
'The one that proves
671
00:41:29,479 --> 00:41:30,959
Ridiculous.
672
00:41:31,959 --> 00:41:34,959
JAMES ARBUTHNOT: 'The subpostmasters
673
00:41:34,959 --> 00:41:36,479
'as is their right,
674
00:41:36,479 --> 00:41:38,959
'and the Post Office think
675
00:41:38,959 --> 00:41:40,959
'It's simply inexplicable.'
676
00:41:40,959 --> 00:41:42,959
What the Post Office is saying
677
00:41:42,959 --> 00:41:45,800
That there have been
678
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:46,959
of the Horizon system
679
00:41:46,959 --> 00:41:50,959
since it was introduced in 2001,
680
00:41:50,959 --> 00:41:53,959
and that only 150 people
681
00:41:53,959 --> 00:41:55,959
have applied to the mediation scheme
682
00:41:55,959 --> 00:41:58,959
for events
683
00:41:58,959 --> 00:42:01,639
The Post Office is saying
684
00:42:01,639 --> 00:42:04,959
that the idea that there is
685
00:42:04,959 --> 00:42:05,959
is simply not true.
686
00:42:05,959 --> 00:42:07,479
Well, I would disagree.
687
00:42:07,479 --> 00:42:10,479
These are people who have been
688
00:42:10,479 --> 00:42:12,959
who've had their reputations
689
00:42:12,959 --> 00:42:15,639
who... who've been sent to prison,
690
00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:18,320
and I understand that at least one
691
00:42:19,959 --> 00:42:21,959
And, Mrs Hamilton...
692
00:42:21,959 --> 00:42:24,959
you believe that you have done
693
00:42:24,959 --> 00:42:27,959
I have done nothing wrong.
694
00:42:27,959 --> 00:42:31,320
'I did not take a penny
695
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,959
'but unfortunately,
696
00:42:33,959 --> 00:42:37,959
Excuse me, could you just
697
00:42:37,959 --> 00:42:40,800
'..many of us in the Justice
698
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,959
'didn't receive a copy of,
699
00:42:42,959 --> 00:42:46,000
'the postmaster is contractually
700
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,159
That's great.
701
00:42:47,159 --> 00:42:49,959
'We did ask the Post office
702
00:42:49,959 --> 00:42:52,959
'No-one was available.'
703
00:42:54,959 --> 00:42:56,479
ALAN: 'Alan Bates?'
704
00:42:56,479 --> 00:43:00,959
'Hi, Alan. My name's James Hartley.
705
00:43:00,959 --> 00:43:02,959
'Yeah, I just heard
706
00:43:02,959 --> 00:43:05,959
'I... I think I can help.'
707
00:43:05,959 --> 00:43:08,639
'I always say to lawyers,
708
00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:10,959
'we're fighting a war
709
00:43:10,959 --> 00:43:12,959
'owned by the British government,
710
00:43:12,959 --> 00:43:15,959
'which means they have mighty forces
711
00:43:15,959 --> 00:43:18,959
'and bottomless pockets
712
00:43:18,959 --> 00:43:22,959
While we're just...
713
00:43:22,959 --> 00:43:23,959
JAMES CHUCKLES
714
00:43:23,959 --> 00:43:27,959
Well, I specialise in contract law,
715
00:43:27,959 --> 00:43:30,959
and this contract is...
716
00:43:30,959 --> 00:43:33,959
114 pages of complete rubbish.
717
00:43:33,959 --> 00:43:37,959
I only got the two-page version.
718
00:43:37,959 --> 00:43:38,959
It's out of date.
719
00:43:38,959 --> 00:43:41,959
It even says you're not allowed
720
00:43:41,959 --> 00:43:44,959
Yeah, when we've got
721
00:43:44,959 --> 00:43:49,959
But, you know, we all signed it,
722
00:43:49,959 --> 00:43:50,959
Well, yes, but...
723
00:43:50,959 --> 00:43:55,959
a contract that is not properly
724
00:43:55,959 --> 00:43:58,959
is not necessarily legally binding.
725
00:43:58,959 --> 00:43:59,959
OK.
726
00:43:59,959 --> 00:44:04,000
Look, I think it may be possible
727
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,959
to fight them in court.
728
00:44:05,959 --> 00:44:08,959
There are specialist funders
729
00:44:08,959 --> 00:44:13,959
who are willing to take the risk,
730
00:44:13,959 --> 00:44:17,959
We had 130 applicants
731
00:44:17,959 --> 00:44:19,159
before the Post office destroyed it.
732
00:44:19,159 --> 00:44:21,800
Mm.
733
00:44:22,959 --> 00:44:25,959
Well, how many would you need?
734
00:44:25,959 --> 00:44:28,320
At least 500.
735
00:44:31,959 --> 00:44:34,959
Well... I can do that.
736
00:44:42,959 --> 00:44:45,959
# Makin' me feel
737
00:44:45,959 --> 00:44:48,959
# Livin' with you
738
00:44:48,959 --> 00:44:50,959
# All of the time... #
739
00:44:50,959 --> 00:44:52,959
Hello?
740
00:44:53,959 --> 00:44:55,639
MAN: 'Is that Alan Bates?'
741
00:44:55,639 --> 00:44:57,959
Yeah. Who's this?
742
00:44:57,959 --> 00:45:01,959
'I worked at Fujitsu
743
00:45:01,959 --> 00:45:03,959
'I was gonna call you...'
744
00:45:03,959 --> 00:45:05,959
'..but I wanted to make sure you...'
745
00:45:05,959 --> 00:45:08,959
Hang on, hang on.
746
00:45:08,959 --> 00:45:10,959
I'm going to pull over.
747
00:45:19,959 --> 00:45:20,959
Hello?
748
00:45:35,959 --> 00:45:37,959
PHONE RINGS
749
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:41,320
Sorry, I got cut off.
750
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,000
I... I lost you.
751
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,159
I don't want anyone knowing
752
00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:49,959
Of course. I understand.
753
00:45:49,959 --> 00:45:52,959
But they're lying. That's the point.
754
00:45:52,959 --> 00:45:55,479
They say there's no remote access
755
00:45:55,479 --> 00:45:57,959
but there was a whole room
756
00:45:57,959 --> 00:46:00,959
full of us inside Fujitsu
757
00:46:00,959 --> 00:46:03,639
doing thousands of corrections
758
00:46:03,639 --> 00:46:06,959
on Horizon
759
00:46:06,959 --> 00:46:09,959
Nobody's gonna admit it, obviously.
760
00:46:09,959 --> 00:46:10,959
Are you still there?
761
00:46:10,959 --> 00:46:15,959
Yes! Sorry.
762
00:46:15,959 --> 00:46:17,959
Please, go on.
763
00:46:17,959 --> 00:46:19,959
'We were just constantly
764
00:46:19,959 --> 00:46:22,959
'Coding errors, bugs,
765
00:46:22,959 --> 00:46:24,959
'Horizon was much worse
766
00:46:24,959 --> 00:46:27,959
'It was shocking.
767
00:46:27,959 --> 00:46:31,959
'It was hard-coded and hard-designed
768
00:46:31,959 --> 00:46:37,959
# God knows what is hiding
769
00:46:37,959 --> 00:46:41,959
# Guess he kissed the girls
770
00:46:41,959 --> 00:46:45,959
# Those hard faced queens
771
00:46:45,959 --> 00:46:51,959
# People help the people
772
00:46:51,959 --> 00:46:54,959
# And if you're homesick
773
00:46:54,959 --> 00:46:58,959
# Give me your hand
45288
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