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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:41,000 (GRUNTS) 2 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,320 OK. I can't get it in closer. 3 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,280 How's that? 4 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:02,840 REPORTER: A murder investigation being launched 5 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,520 into the death of another Russian on British soil. 6 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,600 (BIG BEN CHIMES) 7 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,120 ♪ CHESS: Blood Money 8 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,360 REPORTER: He told his uncle a fortnight before he died, 9 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,600 "If anything happens to me in the next two weeks, 10 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:25,600 it won't be an accident." 11 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,640 (RAPPING IN RUSSIAN) 12 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,160 BILL BROWDER: London is levitating on a sea of dirty money. 13 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,320 If you deal with somebody 14 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,320 who has a very suspicious track record, 15 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,560 some day it will come back to haunt you. 16 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,440 (POLICE SIREN WAILS) 17 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:16,160 I read all those seven articles published by BuzzFeed, 18 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,960 and I think everything what they are writing 19 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,880 in all of their seven articles - absolute nonsense. 20 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:24,760 So, every article, if you take every article, 21 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,080 and analyse it from the beginning to the end, 22 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,400 every article is simply false. 23 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,440 It's an invention. It's a legend. 24 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,920 It's a journalistic legend, nothing else. 25 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,120 Some of the cases are simply stupid. 26 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:42,760 For example, Gareth Williams. 27 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:46,440 It's a strange case, but definitely 28 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,960 Russia was not involved in Gareth Williams' strange death. 29 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,960 Why he died, what happened - it's entirely unknown. 30 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,080 You can make a long, long theory of it, 31 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,680 but he was definitely not assassinated by the Russians. 32 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,920 There was never any reason to get rid of him. 33 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,760 Nothing. There's not any fact proving that. 34 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,640 And this goes exactly with every other case. 35 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,440 HEIDI BLAKE: One of the more bizarre deaths on the list of 14 36 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,040 is the spy in the bag. 37 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,560 It's an extraordinary mystery 38 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,840 and has perplexed the public here for years. 39 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,560 British people - it's Agatha Christie - love the whodunit. 40 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,400 Like, it's Colonel Plum, in the lounge, with a candlestick. 41 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,440 HEIDI BLAKE: Gareth Williams worked as a codebreaker at MI6. 42 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,840 He apparently was investigating Russian money-laundering networks 43 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,520 in the months before his death. 44 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:43,240 And he was found dead in very suspicious circumstances. 45 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,880 Gareth's body had been placed inside a sports bag, 46 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,920 which itself had been placed inside the bathtub of his apartment. 47 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,080 It had been padlocked from the outside 48 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,360 and the key to the padlock was underneath his body, inside the bag. 49 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,920 PETER FAULDING: I was contacted to attend the crime scene itself. 50 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:07,360 I'm quite small and flexible. I was a similar size to Gareth Williams. 51 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,640 When I first saw the crime scene, I think it was quite overwhelming. 52 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,240 I expected to see a very untidy area and lots of struggle, 53 00:04:16,280 --> 00:04:20,320 but there was no signs of struggle anywhere within the flat. 54 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,920 Everything had been forensically examined. 55 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,400 There was not a mark of Gareth's fingerprints 56 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,160 on the padlock, the bath, the shower screen. 57 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,280 HEIDI BLAKE: It's impossible to live in a flat 58 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,560 and not to leave your fingerprints and your DNA 59 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,120 and forensic traces all over it. 60 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,160 Another suspicious factor is 61 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,800 the heating in the flat had been turned up near enough to maximum, 62 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:42,800 even though it was mid-August, 63 00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:45,480 which meant that his body was so badly decomposed 64 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:47,200 by the time it was found 65 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:50,240 that it was impossible to run any particular toxicology tests 66 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:52,080 to determine whether he'd been poisoned 67 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,040 or really to determine his actual cause of death. 68 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:56,960 MI6 hadn't raised the alarm, 69 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,560 despite the fact that Gareth had been missing from work. 70 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,320 RICHARD HOLMES: It was about a week 71 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,720 before someone actually decided to visit his flat. 72 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,200 Theoretically, this is possible to do. 73 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,280 I think it is more probable 74 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,040 that Gareth was on his own at the time of his death. 75 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,440 I was asked to recreate various scenarios. 76 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,520 I spent hundreds of attempts to actually get in the bag. 77 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:36,520 You can't achieve getting into the bag or the bath 78 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,400 without leaving a trace of fingerprints and DNA. 79 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:48,200 HEIDI BLAKE: The idea that he had climbed into a sports bag, 80 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:50,000 zipped the sports bag up, 81 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,120 padlocked it from the outside, 82 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,120 locked the key underneath his own body 83 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,760 and then perished really beggars belief. 84 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,640 I have to say, I thought the investigation did their level best 85 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,360 to really get to the bottom of this. 86 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,280 I don't know if people do connect this case 87 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:15,000 to Russians or international espionage. 88 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:18,480 I mean, that is... one or two individuals might do, 89 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:21,200 BuzzFeed might do, investigative journalists might do. 90 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,200 I'm not decrying any of their investigative work and what they... 91 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:25,920 the conclusions they draw. 92 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:27,960 But I don't know if that's a broader opinion. 93 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,840 From my perspective, a police investigation perspective, 94 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,160 and what we looked at, 95 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:34,960 there was no evidence to suggest 96 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,080 that the Russians are involved in Gareth's death. 97 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,400 Until we have further evidence and more information coming in, 98 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:42,080 it could be either of those. 99 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:44,960 I was a police officer in London for nearly 40 years, 100 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,240 and I served as a detective in all ranks 101 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:49,560 up until Detective Chief Superintendent, 102 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,440 and my last years were with the Major Crime Homicide Command. 103 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,520 In the case of Gareth Williams, 104 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,080 the property was secured by us for over a week 105 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,200 whilst forensic examination was conducted 106 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,080 and fingerprinting and infrared light 107 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,120 and a whole load of other tests. 108 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,800 The absence of fingerprints is remarked on as being suspicious. 109 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,920 Well, in one way, yes, it could be that if someone has... 110 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,800 if there's evidence of it being cleaned up or cleared up, 111 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,440 but there wasn't any real evidence of that. 112 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,240 I'm more inclined to believe it was a death by misadventure 113 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,160 and that he was on his own when the event occurred, 114 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,200 and he placed himself in the bag 115 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:33,800 and he died whilst in the bag. 116 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,200 I know the expert reported that he couldn't do it 117 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,560 and the videos were shown at the coroner's inquest 118 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,120 of him attempting it, and it wasn't possible. 119 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:47,440 But subsequently, another expert demonstrated it could be done. 120 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,880 By going in and inserting the toggles in a particular way, 121 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:53,920 you could do it. 122 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,040 I understand that BuzzFeed introduces Gareth's death 123 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,240 as yet another example, 124 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:00,760 drawing a correlation and link 125 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,560 over a series of deaths that occurred in the United Kingdom, 126 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,920 but I have no evidence of that. 127 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,240 I wouldn't make any claim to such a suggestion at all. 128 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,680 He was an employee of the government intelligence service, 129 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,240 who engaged in many activities, 130 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,800 but to then place his death 131 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,240 at the door of a foreign state's 132 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,320 extrajudicial killing 133 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,280 is a big leap. 134 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,000 I don't think there's anything wrong 135 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:28,920 with the investigation that was done. 136 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,120 What is unsavoury and unsatisfactory is, 137 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,640 despite that extensive inquiry, 138 00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:37,920 not every death can be explained 139 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,040 satisfactorily or easily 140 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,480 because there's a gap in our knowledge 141 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,800 of what actually took place. 142 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,520 And within that gap 143 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:52,120 allows people to speculate quite widely on what happened. 144 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:58,080 DIRECTOR: So what do you make of BuzzFeed's theory 145 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:00,480 that 14 people, including Scot, 146 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:03,760 might have been murdered on British soil by Russians? 147 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,360 A theory is not factual evidence. 148 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,400 Yes, there's a couple of Russians 149 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,600 that have been found dead on British soil. 150 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:19,000 But BuzzFeed cannot prove that this was Russians that murdered Scot. 151 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,800 And I believe, if any other inquiry was opened up, 152 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,440 it would open up the whole case. 153 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,560 So, as a family, 154 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:31,160 we can't rest in peace because we don't know the truth. 155 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,200 We've been left in limbo. 156 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,640 My daughters didn't want me to do this interview with you, 157 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:39,400 and I'm actually honoured, 158 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,960 and I believe you will do your very best to tell the truth. 159 00:10:02,680 --> 00:10:04,440 (HEART MONITOR FLATLINES) 160 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,520 I don't know why Michelle feels that. 161 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:11,240 I know that she has adopted different viewpoints 162 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,120 at different times about what might have happened, 163 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,600 but I just know that what we have in the documents is highly compelling, 164 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,360 and he's at the centre of a web of individuals who were all connected. 165 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,800 That's really the thrust of our story. 166 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,480 You know, over the years, the amount of people 167 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,880 who've been in touch with me has been completely amazing. You know? 168 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,720 I've had private investigator firms, 169 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:36,960 letters from lawyers - yeah? - 170 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,880 and people chasing assets, yeah? 171 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,840 Not one person, not one person 172 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,480 has actually found anything of any significance. 173 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:53,440 Supposedly, Berezovsky was murdered, 174 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,480 Scot was murdered... 175 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,160 I don't think that was the case at all. 176 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,760 I think it's just been a set of circumstances which just fits. 177 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,200 The door was locked and there was no signs of forced entry 178 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,240 and it was locked from the inside. 179 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,480 Do I believe that he was thrown out a window? 180 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,640 I don't think so. I mean, no. 181 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,120 Do I believe that he intended to commit suicide? 182 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:25,920 Maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe he just slipped on the ledge. 183 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,960 I don't know is the answer. 184 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,640 So you had no sense that anyone in the Kremlin 185 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:33,480 or Vladimir Putin was enraged 186 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,400 because of Scot's relationship with Boris Berezovsky? 187 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,480 (SUPPRESSED LAUGH) 188 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:43,080 I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. 189 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,280 You've got sensationalist articles being written about this 190 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:48,000 for years and years and years. 191 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,880 It keeps on getting dragged up again and again and again. 192 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,560 But do I believe that he was, let's put it bluntly, 193 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,240 bumped off by, you know, Russian mobsters? 194 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,000 No, with a with a capital N. No. 195 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,320 How do you respond to any critic who says 196 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:04,840 you guys are grasping at straws, 197 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,160 you're stringing things together - that aren't connected? - Yeah, yeah. 198 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,520 So... And I think, look... 199 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:12,680 I think that's a reasonable question. 200 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,680 People might look and say, "This story is insane, 201 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,560 you've just done like... you're just joining the dots, 202 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,040 like, it doesn't make any sense." 203 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,000 This is so serious the US intelligence community 204 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,040 was drawing up a report about these people 205 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:28,960 and assessing the likelihood 206 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,800 of Kremlin involvement in their deaths. 207 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:36,520 Do you believe that the Russian state has sanctioned 208 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,800 or been able to assassinate people on British soil? 209 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:47,120 Well, there is no need to believe, if you know for sure. 210 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,560 REPORTER: These are the London offices 211 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,720 of ex-MI6 officer Christopher Steele, 212 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,800 who compiled the Donald Trump dossier, 213 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,320 which contains unverified allegations 214 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,640 that Russian security officials 215 00:13:03,680 --> 00:13:06,720 have compromising material on the President Elect. 216 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,400 The dossier that Christopher Steele produced 217 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,040 became sort of political fodder in the United States. 218 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:13,800 When you read the Steele report, 219 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,680 it by no means was what we would call "finished intelligence". 220 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,880 It was a variety of sources with a variety of levels of access 221 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,320 and a variety of levels of trust by Mr Steele. 222 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,640 REPORTER: Federal prosecutors have laid out a clear picture 223 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:29,720 of flimsy and potentially biased sourcing in the dossier. 224 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,600 Steele has defended his work, 225 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,080 claiming it was raw intelligence that needed further vetting, 226 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:37,560 but that his sources were solid. 227 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,080 To a professional, to someone 228 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,320 who's worked on Russian intelligence issues, 229 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,520 the information in the dossier, in the reports, 230 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:48,560 it was certainly consistent with the kind of activities 231 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,880 that Russian intelligence gets involved in. 232 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,360 You know, if you wanted a crude answer from me 233 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,680 about those 14 deaths, my guess would be probably 234 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,120 two-thirds of them were linked to Russia 235 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,600 and half of those were linked to the Russian Government. 236 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,880 One of the problems that we all have in assessing these suspicious deaths 237 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,520 is that you're dealing with an environment 238 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,800 which is totally unlike our own society. 239 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,640 The Kremlin doesn't have as 240 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:25,720 all-encompassing control over these things as people might imagine. 241 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,880 In Russia, you have an overlapping morass 242 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:32,280 between the Kremlin, the intelligence services, 243 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,640 business oligarchs and organised crime. 244 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,760 And so, when you look at any one of these, 245 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,600 it's really quite difficult to assess the true motivation 246 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,080 that might have been behind one of these suspicious deaths. 247 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,880 Clearly, there are cases which are very clear-cut, 248 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,600 like Litvinenko, where you're looking at something 249 00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:52,480 very unusual, a very unusual methodology and so on. 250 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,960 In a case like Berezovsky, there are any number of explanations 251 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,720 as to what it might be. 252 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,200 There's not an obvious state motivation. 253 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,200 You know, you're at this kind of interface 254 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,680 between oligarchs, the Kremlin and the intelligence services, 255 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,560 all in a kind of overlapping indistinct structure. 256 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,360 When we first published, 257 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,640 it was honestly gutting that it barely made a ripple. 258 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:28,320 And it was only when Skripal happened... 259 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,440 ..everything changed overnight. 260 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,920 REPORTER: Tonight, Sergei and Yulia Skripal 261 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,480 are in a critical condition in hospital here in Salisbury. 262 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,960 HEIDI BLAKE: In the case of Sergei and Yulia Skripal, 263 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,040 the former Russian spy and his daughter, 264 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,320 who were poisoned on the streets of Salisbury, 265 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,880 the Russian state has targeted a defector and his daughter, 266 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,280 and they've used the Soviet nerve agent Novichok 267 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:55,440 to target those two people, thereby indiscriminately exposing 268 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,600 hundreds of members of the British public 269 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,880 to an internationally outlawed weapon of war, 270 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:01,600 a weapon of mass destruction. 271 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,360 TOM WARREN: And then not only that, 272 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,920 the poison was picked up by two poor unsuspecting people 273 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,840 who went bin-diving for stuff, 274 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,120 and one of them died. 275 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,040 And then, only when that happened, 276 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,680 that entire insane, like, sequence of tragic events, 277 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,680 did people look at our stories and go, "Oh, my God, they're right." 278 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,040 And it was so bizarre. Nobody listened... 279 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,280 ..Skripal happened, and we saw the results of our reporting 280 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,320 just being copied out everywhere by other news services. 281 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,520 REPORTER: Journalist Heidi Blake believes the Russian state 282 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,560 could potentially be behind many more deaths in the UK. 283 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,400 SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Yvette Cooper. 284 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,440 The Foreign Secretary rightly said 285 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,000 that no attempt on innocent life on our soil 286 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,360 should go uninvestigated or unpunished. 287 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,640 But what about the 14 cases where UK authorities, 288 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,120 in many of these cases, have concluded that these were suicides, 289 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,360 despite the fact that there has now been 290 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,240 considerable reported evidence, including in the BuzzFeed report, 291 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,640 of further evidence that casts serious doubt 292 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:13,360 on those conclusions? 293 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,320 There are serious questions about whether the police investigations 294 00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:18,560 were thorough enough. MPs: Hear, hear. 295 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,960 I must say that the Right Honourable Lady is perfectly right. 296 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,720 There are a number of deeply troubling cases, 297 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,000 Mr Perepilichny, for instance, 298 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,920 and, to the best of our knowledge, there is no further evidence 299 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,760 that points in the direction of criminality. 300 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:36,960 But I think what she says is very important, 301 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,480 and we will certainly follow it up and I will certainly have 302 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,840 that discussion with the Home Secretary. 303 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,000 TOM WARREN: It was looked at because 304 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,000 the police were ordered to do a review 305 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,040 into a lot of the deaths we reported on. 306 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,200 They were just like, "Yeah, there's nothing going on." 307 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,240 But it was fascinating because, after that, 308 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:01,960 it then came up in the Russia report. 309 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:03,960 You know, there was a big report into Russia, 310 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,480 and there was a section within it 311 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,480 on suspicious deaths that were linked to Russia. 312 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:10,720 SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Mr Dominic Grieve. 313 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,480 When the Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament 314 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,440 was reformed, we announced immediately 315 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,760 that one of our priorities was to carry out 316 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,080 an inquiry into Russia's covert activities 317 00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:26,280 and whether we had the appropriate responses to it. 318 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,120 The Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament 319 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,400 decided to carry out an inquiry into Russia. 320 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,200 We wanted to look across the full spectrum of Russia's activities. 321 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,600 Rather than publishing an inquiry with very substantial redactions, 322 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:40,760 we decided to publish a report 323 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,560 which had as few redactions as possible. 324 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,400 But I'm afraid you'll find, if you read the report, 325 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,560 that significant parts of it are redacted, 326 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,280 and in the circumstances I can't comment further on that. 327 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,800 Clearly, there was some material in the report 328 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,000 that might have been of embarrassment to a government 329 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,440 in the run-up to a general election. 330 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,320 We then got the explanation, 331 00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:08,960 "Well, unfortunately, there was a lot to look at. 332 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,080 There was no possibility of it being published 333 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:13,920 before the general election was called." 334 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,480 Well, those explanations were, 335 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:19,040 I described them at the time as "bogus", 336 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:20,960 and that's what they were. 337 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,320 They were simply not credible. 338 00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,280 Now, that suggests a degree of control freakery 339 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,240 by the Johnson Government. 340 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,920 And that may simply be the best explanation on offer 341 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,160 as to why it behaved in this strange fashion. 342 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,840 So I want to ask the Prime Minister about the extremely serious report 343 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,360 by the Intelligence and Security Committee. 344 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,720 It concludes that Russia poses 345 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,080 an immediate and urgent threat to our national security. 346 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:49,240 The Prime Minister received that report ten months ago. 347 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,600 Given that the threat is described as immediate and urgent, 348 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,360 why on earth did the Prime Minister sit on that report for so long? 349 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,400 Hear, hear! Well, Mr Speaker, actually, 350 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,560 when I was Foreign Secretary 351 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,480 and for the period that I've been in office, 352 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,640 we've been taking the strongest possible action 353 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,160 against Russian wrongdoing. 354 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,200 Were these cases reopened as a result of this report? 355 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,120 DOMINIC GRIEVE: Not as far as I'm aware. 356 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,920 But if you just wait a moment, 357 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,720 I'll just go and get my copy of the report. 358 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,640 You may have read it, but - as it's just to hand - 359 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,680 let's just have a look. 360 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,200 Yeah, here we are. 361 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,080 It's perfectly clearly laid out. 362 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:37,240 It says that we made inquiry, 363 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:42,840 we received a reply by the intelligence agencies, 364 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,000 but it's not one which I can share with you. 365 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,800 What that reply is is redacted out. 366 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,560 And that's as far as I can go to answering your question. 367 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,200 So, essentially, that's as far as the British Government will go 368 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:58,120 to answering that question. 369 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,600 Yes, it's the... 370 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,400 The view that was taken was that it had to... 371 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,520 The answer that was given needed to be redacted 372 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,720 because of national security implications 373 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,800 and it had to be based on that criteria - 374 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,840 made that quite clear. 375 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,400 Part of the reason that the UK did not want 376 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,680 to turn this into an international scandal is because 377 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,840 they didn't want to poke the bear, Russia. 378 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,840 TOM WARREN: You've got trillions in deals 379 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,200 coming into the country from Russia. 380 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,360 Money can buy you impunity, 381 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,960 which, frankly, I find quite terrifying. 382 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,800 BILL BROWDER: London is levitating on a sea of dirty money. 383 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,760 I brought this to the attention of all sorts of regulators, 384 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:52,640 government officials, 385 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,640 parliamentary committees, 386 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,840 and there have been no consequences. 387 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:58,760 Why has there been no consequences? 388 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,560 Because there's so many people benefiting from it. 389 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:05,040 HEIDI BLAKE: There was a point at which 390 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,120 Putin could have been stopped. 391 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,920 But for the last couple of decades, 392 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,600 Western leaders were getting further and further into bed with Putin, 393 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,880 rather than distancing ourselves from Vladimir Putin's Government. 394 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,000 (SHOUTING) 395 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,200 Stop the steal! 396 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,960 The Western world is going through 397 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,320 a period of a crisis of confidence and legitimacy, 398 00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:32,080 for all kinds of different reasons, 399 00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:35,280 and this provides the Russians with an opportunity. 400 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,520 What they do is precisely to take advantage of those flaws, 401 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,160 those cracks in the system, that are already there, 402 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,800 and insert a crowbar and see how much 403 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,160 they can lever it open all the more. 404 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,200 HEIDI BLAKE: Russia's posture 405 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,320 has become more and more menacing, more and more aggressive, 406 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,720 in plain sight of the British authorities. 407 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,840 YULI DUBOV: Putin had to be stopped after Litvinenko's death, 408 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,400 and he had to be stopped when he seized Crimea. 409 00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:06,840 And what happened? Nothing. 410 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:10,800 REPORTER: Russia has invaded Ukraine. 411 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,960 He felt that he can do whatever he wants. 412 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,600 It is already Europe's worst refugee crisis since the Second World War. 413 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,360 (SCREAMS) 414 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,200 HEIDI BLAKE: Putin wants his enemies to know 415 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,320 that if you anger him, 416 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,160 if you betray the Motherland... 417 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,160 ..there is no safe place for you. 418 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,320 Wherever you are, his assassins will hunt you down. 419 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,720 There is no room for the British Government 420 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,240 to ignore what has happened on British soil. 421 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,200 And what we see now is the consequences 422 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,080 of that failure to take a firm line. 423 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:00,120 YULI DUBOV: The West has an enemy, a very serious enemy, 424 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,160 a very aggressive enemy... 425 00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:06,040 ..and an enemy which is not restricted 426 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,960 or contained by anything. 427 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,280 If you don't understand that it's time NOW to fight back, 428 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,080 then when you start to understand this... 429 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,240 ..it may be too late. 430 00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:49,240 AccessibleCustomerService@sky.uk 34207

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