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[SHE SIGHS]
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You OK?
3
00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,029
Mm.
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00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,189
Grand.
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00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:55,680
I'm going to show you a clip.
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Press the space bar.
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My God!
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[CLIP]: The 32 contestants were today
being put through their paces
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00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,429
in Dublin's Burlington Hotel
as they rehearsed
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00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,029
for tonight's contest.
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The winner will represent Ireland
in the Miss World Competition
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00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,029
in London later this year.
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00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,589
Well, the striking thing, of course,
is always the pretty face
14
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,349
and the figure to go with it.
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We like a girl to be ladylike,
know how to carry herself,
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00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,829
have poise and confidence.
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Oh!
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Oh, my God.
19
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Did you see yourself in there?
20
00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:36,029
I bloody did, aye.
21
00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:37,589
That is I.
22
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,829
Oh, the '80s hair!
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[SHE LAUGHS]
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Isn't it great?
25
00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:44,069
I didn't know how to put on make-up.
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I had zero idea.
27
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,029
"Poise, elegance and ladylike"?
28
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I was a fucking tomboy!
29
00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:03,349
I remember going onto
Miss Ireland then was...
30
00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,309
That was an eye-opener.
31
00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:06,869
I was really greenhorn.
32
00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:09,480
I'd never been outside of Derry
at that point.
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00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,309
I've always done things where
it's nearly a form of escapism,
34
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,389
to not think about
what I was going through.
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00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,149
I put on a character.
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00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,280
I wasn't me.
37
00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:28,320
None of those people knew
my experiences in the North.
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00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,709
Nobody knew that my brother
was murdered.
39
00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,120
None of them.
40
00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,280
And I'm not a victim
of the Troubles.
41
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,669
I survived the fucking Troubles
and I survived all the shite
42
00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,320
that was going with it.
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00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,149
I'm just a defiant, determined shit,
and I'm going to get through it.
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00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,040
Nothing's going to beat me down.
45
00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:56,909
I can't make sense of the past.
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00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:59,509
And sometimes I try not
to think about it
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00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,309
and I can close myself off.
48
00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,280
But, as I say, my absolute truth
is I know Jim's gone.
49
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:10,160
For what?
50
00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:12,600
I don't know.
51
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,549
I just feel really angry
that so many people
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00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,709
in this part of Ireland
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00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,040
had to suffer the shit
that they did.
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00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,709
Should it be Catholic, Protestant,
policemen, soldiers,
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00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,240
everything in between.
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00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:56,080
[MUFFLED SHOUTS AND SCREAMS]
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I remember...
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00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:33,909
I remember crying.
59
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,469
I remember feeling afraid.
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00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,909
I remember frightened...
I remember feeling frightened.
61
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,349
And I can remember...
I just remember me mammy.
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00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,149
I remember people were joyful.
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00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:49,749
I can remember the excitement,
the butterflies in the stomach.
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00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,109
I remember just feeling
so happy and loved.
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00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,149
I remember the first time...
I remember...
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00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,629
I just remember...
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00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,949
...the anger that I had.
...flashing and guns going off...
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[INDISTINCT VOICES OVERLAP]
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00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:09,920
My father always said to us...
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00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:12,160
..."Tell the truth.
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00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,640
"Tell the truth
and shame the devil."
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00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,480
# In my memory #
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00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,400
# I will always see #
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00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,400
# The town that I
have loved so well. #
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00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,280
I was born in the Bogside, in Derry.
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00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,149
Born at home.
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00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:00,840
Three-bedroomed house.
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00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:03,669
But people think,
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00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,949
"Oh, yous were lucky you had
a three-bedroomed house,"
80
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:07,349
but there were three families.
81
00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,040
There was a family in each room.
82
00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,789
But I was too young...
I slept in a drawer
83
00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:14,069
because there was no room.
84
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:17,040
There's two siblings before me,
so I was the third.
85
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:21,349
Happy days, looking back, you know?
86
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,029
There's some good times.
87
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,880
Some very sad times,
but some good times.
88
00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,240
All right, George?
89
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,069
Now you're in the heart
of the Bogside.
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00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,600
99.9 Catholic nationalist area.
91
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:42,669
Great people.
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00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,200
Best people in the world.
93
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,160
IRA rules.
[HE CHUCKLES]
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00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,509
Nice to meet you.
95
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:04,989
Where are you from, Berlin?
96
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,109
Yeah.
97
00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,069
- This is me on the wall.
- That's you?
98
00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,269
- Yeah.
- OK.
99
00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,029
Come on, we'll get a photograph.
100
00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:12,320
OK.
101
00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,069
Folks tell me you could be here
for the full day,
102
00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,069
taking photographs,
103
00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:22,520
all year round.
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00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,309
That's a signed copy of the T-shirt.
105
00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,669
The museum now sell a few.
106
00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:32,749
They make a few quid on them.
107
00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:34,040
There's a souvenir.
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00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,749
This is me on the wall.
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00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,629
Yeah. Do you want a photograph?
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00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:40,880
Come on.
111
00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:44,309
My name's Billy McVeigh.
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00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:45,909
Some people call me the wee man,
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00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:48,029
some people call Wee Bill.
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00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,680
Some people call me
the best rioter in Derry.
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00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:53,160
[INTERVIEWER]: They did what?
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00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:55,469
Who is?
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00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,040
People called me that.
118
00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,120
I probably was!
119
00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,080
[SHOUTING]
120
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,229
People ask me, "What was
it like in those days?"
121
00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,229
And I'd said,
"Well, if you weren't shot
122
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,240
"and you weren't caught,
the craic was 90."
123
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,269
Yeah, good craic.
It was good craic, yeah.
124
00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,120
It was dangerous.
Dangerous good craic.
125
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,629
Did the Troubles start off
with the riots?
126
00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,749
No, not at all.
127
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:45,469
# We shall overcome some day... #
128
00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,589
It started off, we had
the civil rights movement
129
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,109
a couple of months before it.
130
00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,029
It was peaceful demonstrations.
131
00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,120
# We'll walk hand in hand... #
132
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,789
What were people asking for?
133
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,120
Housing, jobs, mainly.
134
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:09,920
Housing and jobs, better conditions.
135
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,269
Catholics were second-class
citizens, you know.
136
00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,240
It was total discrimination
It was clear to be seen.
137
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,869
Here a man is either
a Protestant or a Catholic.
138
00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,560
He is either with us or with them.
139
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:32,989
You knew there was a separation.
140
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,909
When you looked across the river,
141
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,389
it sort of just rang a bell
in your head.
142
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,240
"They're all Protestant over there."
143
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,789
The divide was plain to be seen
144
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,629
because they all had good houses.
145
00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,309
They also had better jobs.
146
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,440
If we had jobs at all,
we were lucky.
147
00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,349
So there was something in the air.
You could tell.
148
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,309
The discrimination
was going to explode.
149
00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:57,680
It was going to come out.
150
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,400
Enough was enough.
151
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,309
I just remember there was
a tension in the city.
152
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,029
And when you went round to the shop,
you just could feel the atmosphere
153
00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:18,749
was really charged.
154
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,389
And I remember people saying,
"Oh, we've no jobs.
155
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,629
"We've outside toilets...
we've no bathrooms."
156
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,789
And I thought about it and I said,
"But that's me."
157
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:30,629
You know, that's exactly what...
158
00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,789
We'd no... Nothing either.
159
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,869
We were just working-class
Protestants,
160
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:36,109
working-class Catholics.
161
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:37,800
There was no difference.
162
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,269
Do you know what?
163
00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:42,749
I was happy enough
with the way my life was,
164
00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,309
to tell you the truth.
165
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,549
Had a house, had my kids.
166
00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:48,000
And my husband.
167
00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:53,989
We didn't want our life to change.
168
00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:55,629
I was very selfish that way.
169
00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,269
I just wanted to live
in this lovely, happy city
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00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,349
where everybody went out and got on.
171
00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,400
Derry, Londonderry,
whatever you want to call it.
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00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,229
Do you know this?
173
00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,629
I'm so lucky for its lovely
memories, sitting talking to you.
174
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,520
It is. It's great memories.
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00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:49,349
[ARCHIVE FOOTAGE]: Catholics call it Derry.
176
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:52,240
Protestants call it Londonderry.
177
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,109
My name's Jeanette Warke.
178
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:57,709
Proud to be a Derry woman,
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00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,709
or a Londonderry woman!
180
00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:00,829
Which are you?
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00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,960
I'm a Londonderry woman.
182
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,509
Cause a whole uproar with the prods.
"She said 'Derry'!"
183
00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,709
Cause a whole lot with the
Catholics. "She said 'Londonderry'!"
184
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:19,960
# We shall overcome some day... #
185
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,349
You know, Protestant people
can be very proud, too.
186
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,360
You know, my mum would never
have taken part in marches, never.
187
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,469
We didn't feel comfortable to go,
188
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,749
and we don't know anybody
that was going anyway,
189
00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:36,949
from our community.
190
00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,520
And you kind of knew deep down
that something was going to happen.
191
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:46,680
The atmosphere was electric.
192
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:49,920
"We're getting together here."
193
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,949
One of the main aims was
"one man, one vote".
194
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:00,789
One person, one vote.
195
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,549
[CHANTING]
196
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:06,389
I remember
the civil rights campaign.
197
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,669
I was 14, 15.
198
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:10,149
Maybe 15.
199
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,029
I was starting to become
interested in politics.
200
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,989
Like "one man, one vote"...
201
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,549
who would be against
one man, one vote?
202
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,949
Do you not think that
it's more democratic to have
203
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,549
one man, one vote?
204
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,029
No, I don't.
205
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,400
[CHANTING]: One man, one vote!
One man, one vote!
206
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,600
But you had to be a homeowner
to have a vote.
207
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,149
[ARCHIVE FOOTAGE]: In local elections,
the seven adults in this family
208
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:40,069
have only two votes... for
the householder and his wife.
209
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,989
Very few Catholics
owned their houses.
210
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,709
Hadn't got any money.
211
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:45,909
Paid rent.
212
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:50,189
So if a lot of Catholics
didn't have votes at all,
213
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,789
whereas the Protestants, quite
a few of them did own their houses.
214
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,269
And this is a crucial element
in all of this.
215
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,949
The state of Northern Ireland
was designed so that
216
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,040
there would be a permanent
Protestant majority.
217
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:10,549
Ever since the partition of Ireland,
218
00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:14,309
power has been monopolised
by one party, the Unionist Party,
219
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,800
devoted to the British Crown
and to the Protestant religion.
220
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,669
We were basically demanding equality
221
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,960
and we were being
beat off the streets.
222
00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,880
And don't forget, the police was
predominantly Protestants, as well.
223
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,040
[SHOUTING]
224
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:47,560
[SCREAMS]
225
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,549
After the 2nd or 3rd March,
226
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,920
you went prepared for a riot.
227
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,840
People armed themselves.
228
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,760
That was the beginning of it.
229
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,120
[CHANTING]
230
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,069
We were being told that the civil
rights movement was dangerous.
231
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:28,949
"Really dangerous people.
232
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:30,989
"And they're fighting
our police and our...
233
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,680
"They are OUR police."
234
00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,829
And I can remember
my father saying, you know,
235
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:46,069
"All this civil rights carry-on
is just a front for the IRA,"
236
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:47,789
and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
237
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,589
Your father was like the oracle,
you know, in those days.
238
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:52,189
You didn't sort of...
239
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,669
Whatever he said was
the fucking law, basically.
240
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,309
You know what I mean?
He used to wear...
241
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,749
He had two pairs of glasses,
you know. He had one on the point
242
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,229
of his nose and one up here,
and he sort of alternated them
243
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,829
for looking at whatever he was
looking at and reading the paper.
244
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,349
And he'd go, "Da, da, da..."
And then he would go like this...
245
00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:08,149
"Well, are you going
to argue with that?
246
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,040
"There it is in black and white."
247
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,429
[DRUMS AND SHOUTING]
248
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,149
[ARCHIVE FOOTAGE]: The most violently
anti-Catholic group is that led
249
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:18,709
by the Reverend Ian Paisley,
250
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:22,040
moderator of his own
Free Presbyterian Church.
251
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,600
All our life
and heritage is at stake.
252
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,829
Paisley was preaching suspicion.
253
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,509
He was preaching hate.
254
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,229
He might've had a grain of truth...
255
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,829
...and then a shovel
full of shit along with it
256
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,429
So he was sowing fear,
257
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,709
petty much like
the right wing in America do,
258
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,429
you know, to their people.
259
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:49,989
Romanism has controlled in
this land for many centuries,
260
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:53,469
and Romanism has bred
poverty and ignorance
261
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,640
and priestcraft and superstition.
262
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:06,149
Fear is a great motivator, you know?
263
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,309
"Oh, if you don't do
something now..."
264
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:09,720
...oh, all was lost.
265
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,880
Protestant culture was gone.
266
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,149
We as Protestants
have always been British,
267
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,680
and we intend to remain
and stay British.
268
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,960
The Roman Catholics want
to be under a united Ireland.
269
00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:42,669
"Let me tell you that the whole
thing is constructed by Rome
270
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,760
"against the Protestant people!"
271
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,909
I thought he was great.
272
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,149
Like, I used to go to the rallies
religiously.
273
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,109
It felt like you were
a part of something big.
274
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,440
No surrender!
[CHEERING]
275
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,080
You're focused heavily on my...
276
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:05,469
...prejudicial past.
277
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,109
Yeah, I know.
278
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:08,989
Because it's important
to understand.
279
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,509
- It's...
- Because you're trying to make sense
280
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:13,989
out of something that maybe
I've never even made sense out of,
281
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,400
you know what I mean?
282
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,669
Like being empathetic, you know?
283
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:21,109
I would've seen anybody
who was empathetic
284
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:26,029
or anybody who had any feelings
for "the other", you know?
285
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,269
As they were as bad
as the other type.
286
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,800
So when you say "the other",
you're talking about Catholics?
287
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:36,000
Yeah.
288
00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:40,160
[SHOUTING]
289
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:53,920
This is Londonderry.
290
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,509
The police have just made
their first baton charge.
291
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,429
They're now inside the Bogside area,
292
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,149
but the crowds
are pushing them back.
293
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,509
There's been another fusillade
of stones flying into the police.
294
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,040
[SHOUTING]
295
00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,349
I mean, thinking back on it,
Battle of the Bogside was '69.
296
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:14,669
I was 17.
297
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:15,840
Only kids.
298
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,549
It was a three-day riot.
299
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,069
Very violent.
300
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,029
But we kept the police at bay.
301
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,869
Come back up here, boys.
Come up here.
302
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:27,029
They're going back up.
303
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,669
Come on back. Come on!
304
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,989
Everybody was angry
because the police used to
305
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,989
come to the Bogside
in the middle of night
306
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,989
and break windows and smash doors,
307
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,000
just to get their own back,
if you like.
308
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,520
Even the women were in the streets,
making petrol bombs.
309
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,629
And the police were there to
protect us, really, weren't they?
310
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,080
I remember standing, I had the pram
with me, and looking at them.
311
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,829
And it just got to you, you know?
312
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:02,229
Why...
313
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,280
Why are they suffering like that?
314
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,549
What did you think was going
to happen?
315
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,469
Oh, I thought we were all
going to get shot,
316
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:15,789
killed, blew up, everything.
317
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:16,989
The city was finished.
318
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,280
I did despair.
319
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,109
[ARCHIVE FOOTAGE]: Inside the Catholic
Bogside area, the second day
320
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,509
of siege is under way,
and barricades at every street
321
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,320
keep visitors
and the police outside.
322
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,789
I never prayed as hard in my life.
323
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,149
I did. I just felt everything
was over for us.
324
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,749
I did, honestly.
325
00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,520
And then it just escalated,
really, didn't it?
326
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,989
[NEWSREADER]: After Londonderry,
the conflict spread,
327
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,269
and Protestant and Catholic gangs
fought savage battles
328
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,040
in the streets of Belfast.
329
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,280
About 150 yards from my house...
330
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,400
...the sky was absolutely on fire.
331
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:43,989
All red.
332
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,440
Houses blazing.
333
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,589
And me and my father
and my granda,
334
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,989
who was 76...
335
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,989
...were in a small room
in the back of the house.
336
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,109
And my father had a lump hammer.
337
00:23:02,120 --> 00:23:05,309
And my granda was working
a set of rosary beads.
338
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:06,560
He was praying.
339
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,229
And my da...
I remember my da's face.
340
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:11,589
My da wasn't fear'd.
341
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,469
There was no fear in his face.
342
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,989
He was ready to go,
he was ready for battle.
343
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,429
And he said to me,
"Grab your Harley bat.
344
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,400
"If anybody comes in here,
me and you's getting into them."
345
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,949
There was whole streets
being burnt out...
346
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,960
...by Protestant extremists.
347
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:42,200
The world had turned chaotic.
348
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,429
Who do you think
did this to your house?
349
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,589
It was no Protestant
that I know that done it.
350
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,509
Do you know what I mean?
I dare say, like...
351
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,349
...with Paisley agitation
and different things
352
00:23:57,360 --> 00:23:59,640
would be responsible
for a lot of it.
353
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:09,949
If there is no solution,
the alternative
354
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,880
is too terrible for words.
355
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,960
The alternative is civil war.
356
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,629
And what must be realised
by everybody on all sides
357
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,549
is that nobody gains from this.
358
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,029
On one side, what use
is one man, one vote
359
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,189
if you're not there to exercise it?
360
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,269
And on the other side, what is
the use of maintaining a situation
361
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,040
of privilege
and power over a desert?
362
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,080
The price of no solution
is total destruction.
363
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,240
[MILITARY BAND PLAYS]
364
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:16,349
I arrived in British Honduras
on the 25th of November 1968,
365
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:20,720
and became 18 on the 26th
of November, the day after.
366
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:23,560
What a birthday present, eh?
367
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,629
Sun, sea, sand, palm trees,
beautiful women.
368
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:30,309
You name it.
369
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,349
Every day was new,
every hour was new.
370
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:34,069
Every minute was new
with what you did.
371
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,240
It was brilliant.
372
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,989
Oh, I forgot to add that
I got married just before I went,
373
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,280
as well, by the way.
374
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,709
My name's Tom Wharton.
375
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,709
I came from a military family.
376
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,960
My grandfather got five campaign
medals in the Boer War.
377
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,909
And on a Sunday afternoon when
everybody had had a few drinks,
378
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,789
the medals would come out,
and pinned on my chest.
379
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,880
And I'd walk around with these
medals on at 11 years old.
380
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,840
So I decided to join the Army.
381
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:17,709
We were young lads.
382
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:18,989
We didn't read newspapers.
383
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,349
You know, if you found one lying
around you'd pick it up and
384
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:25,109
look to the sports pages
and then throw it down again.
385
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:29,160
We were a million miles away
from what was happening in the UK.
386
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,800
[BAND PLAYS]
387
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,040
Oh, well done!
388
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,149
So we then started getting briefings
about the riots that had been
389
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,669
going on and the killings
in some places
390
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:52,989
that had been going on.
391
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,189
We said,
"Where's all this happening?"
392
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,320
"Oh, it's happening
in Northern Ireland."
393
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,069
This was the scene as a new batch
of British troops arrived to take
394
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,960
over security duties at Belfast,
Bogside and other strategic points.
395
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,400
[ROCK MUSIC]
396
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,029
[SHOUTING]
397
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,120
We were going in
as kind of saviours.
398
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:36,029
We'd been brought in to stand
in the middle, basically,
399
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,000
and to stop them killing each other.
400
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,709
At the start, there was a real,
real tense situation because people
401
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,309
didn't know what these guys
were going to do.
402
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:02,229
I mean, I'd never heard an English
voice before The Troubles.
403
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,789
And I didn't know
what the fuck they were saying.
404
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,829
And then...
405
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:12,309
...all of a sudden, you see these
wee women coming with trays of tea
406
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:17,960
and coffee, and the whole heat's
taken out of the situation.
407
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,949
There was that sense of,
"Well, thank God they're here now.
408
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:49,029
"Maybe a bit of calm will descend."
409
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,269
And I remember bringing
out biscuits.
410
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:52,309
You did?
411
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,040
Aye. I think it was Rich Tea.
412
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,640
You got both Catholics and
Protestants competing with the tea.
413
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,989
So they'd come from one side
with a tray of tea and sandwiches,
414
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,949
and you'd eat those,
and then you'd turn round
415
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,749
and from the Protestant side
they'd come along with another...
416
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,549
And you think, "Oh, God I'm full!"
417
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,869
You know, because you're not
getting much exercise
418
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,429
when you're stood on the end
of a street, you know.
419
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,240
"Will you come in for breakfast?"
420
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,429
And the people on both sides
were so pleasant.
421
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,040
It was unbelievable.
422
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:33,789
You know?
423
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,269
What's all this about?
424
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,749
Why are we here?
425
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:39,109
There you are now.
426
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,269
That's for after your lunch
or after your dinner.
427
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:42,589
- Thank you very much.
- Thank you.
428
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:43,829
Appreciate it. Thank you.
429
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,549
You've got to remember, most of
the soldiers came from areas
430
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:47,760
just like this.
431
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,309
Middlesbrough
and Scarborough and Halifax.
432
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,080
We came from areas
like they lived in.
433
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,109
You know, you thought to yourself,
434
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,360
"Good grief. I'm home."
435
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,869
They were smiling and laughing
and there was...
436
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,469
...people talking to them
just like they were decent,
437
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,829
normal human beings, and...
438
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,240
So...
439
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,800
...that was the early days.
440
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,160
We didn't know what was round
the corner, really, then, did we?
441
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,189
I was doing O-levels
at this time.
442
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,869
I remember my father saying...
443
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,440
He says, "This is the start
of something huge."
444
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,589
I hadn't a clue
what he was talking about,
445
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,749
and he wouldn't elaborate.
446
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,469
But he saw something that I didn't.
447
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,149
My father was a republican,
had been a republican,
448
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:24,389
had been a former commander of
Belfast during the 1940s
449
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,069
for a while.
450
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:31,709
And so the people who
he classified as friends
451
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,149
were always committed
to armed struggle.
452
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,869
They were not civil rights people.
453
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,709
These people were
out-and-out revolutionaries.
454
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:44,840
And I would say that even by
that stage they were...
455
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,440
...rubbing their hands and plotting.
456
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:50,960
And...
457
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,509
...probably talking about
raising an army to fight.
458
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,709
It was tailor-made for them
459
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,269
because they had an enemy
right in front of them
460
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:03,829
in a green uniform.
461
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,189
The British Army.
462
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,640
The British Army!
463
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,200
They had foreigners on Irish soil.
464
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,560
It was 1921, War of Independence
all over again.
465
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,789
It was tailor-made for a revolution,
and these guys went for it.
466
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:38,629
They went for it
467
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,480
like racing drivers.
468
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,709
And what they were plotting,
is that what became...
469
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,440
The Provisional IRA.
470
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,669
And that's what happened.
471
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:53,749
The IRA, totally dormant.
472
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,789
Nobody even talking about it.
473
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,120
Suddenly the unsaid was being said.
474
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,680
You know,
"We want a united Ireland."
475
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,000
[THEY PLAY 'JINGLE BELLS']
476
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,349
Your whole day was preoccupied
with the riots.
477
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,629
From the minute
you got out of school,
478
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,029
it's all about the riots.
479
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,709
[MUSIC: "Baba O'Riley" by The Who]
480
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,269
Where was the riots?
481
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,709
Who was rioting?
482
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,080
What was on fire?
483
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,040
Every day there was
trouble somewhere.
484
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,629
My name's Richard Moore,
485
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,000
and I'm delighted to be here today.
486
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,920
I would've been probably
eight or nine years of age then.
487
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,189
# I don't need to fight #
488
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:14,040
# To prove I'm right #
489
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:21,040
# I don't need to be forgiven
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah... #
490
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:39,469
When they come back...
491
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,600
And again when they come round.
492
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,469
It's amazing the things that
become your normal language,
493
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,120
like water cannons, rubber bullets.
494
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,120
# It's only teenage wasteland... #
495
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,789
We had dog shit thrown at us.
496
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,669
Loads of it, and they'd get it
on a stick and go...
497
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,029
[HE LAUGHS]
You know, you'd be ducking,
498
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,349
and there's things flying
all over the place.
499
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:09,960
And the kids loved it.
500
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,480
And what are you going
to do against kids?
501
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,760
[SHOUTING]
502
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:33,080
My second tour, 1971,
the whole atmosphere had changed.
503
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:41,280
Some Catholic communities
hated the British by now.
504
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,589
It's quite inevitable that if
you are going to pursue
505
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,629
a counter-terrorist campaign,
you have to go in amongst
506
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:56,029
the population which harbours
the guerrilla
507
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:57,709
and gives him sustenance.
508
00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:01,720
You cannot do this without causing
a degree of bitterness.
509
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,749
[BRITISH SOLDIER]: Well, I hope you
realise we have to come round
510
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,549
and look at these houses
from time to time.
511
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,509
Oh, I know. Yes, I know that.
I understand.
512
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,949
I mean, we just have to make
absolutely certain there are no
513
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,149
- weapons or anything in this area.
- I know, yes. - Thank you.
514
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,309
We became known as
a republican family.
515
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,869
We were singled out
for supporting a united Ireland
516
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,989
and classing ourselves as Irish.
517
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,789
They were raiding our house
to see if we were either hiding
518
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,389
guns or gunmen.
519
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,029
Has anybody approached you
at any time to join the IRA
520
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,389
- or take part in any activities whatsoever
in this area? - No.
521
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:52,709
- Not at all?
- No.
522
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:53,789
Are you absolutely sure?
523
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,309
Positive.
524
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,349
It's always... It's the feet.
[SHE STAMPS]
525
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,509
The feet. That's one of
the things that I remember.
526
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:01,029
That "bang, bang, bang, bang!"
527
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,109
The stairs just literally
being pounded in.
528
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,509
"Come on, come on, get out
of your fucking beds!"
529
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:08,829
And it's...
530
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,040
...just all young girls in the room.
531
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,389
These weren't the same people
that were sitting on the wall
532
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,189
that I was handing biscuits to.
533
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,589
They were angry and they were
shouting and they were
534
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,040
wrecking the place, and...
535
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,280
...you know, dragging us
out of bed and...
536
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,909
And when they eventually left,
537
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,149
there was no "sorry...
we didn't find anything"...
538
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:34,909
there was nothing.
539
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,509
The new army searches have brought
a rash of complaints
540
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,109
from Roman Catholic residents.
541
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,869
The Army, for their part, claimed
they used minimum force to enter
542
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,429
the house and suggest that perhaps
local residents had done it
543
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,400
in order to win sympathy
for the republican cause.
544
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,149
I've been over in England quite
a few times, and I think to myself,
545
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,429
"How would they feel if this was
going on in their city?
546
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,440
"How would they feel?
547
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,309
"Would there be
an uproar against it?
548
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,480
"Or would people just comply?"
549
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,749
Hold on. I'm not finished.
550
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:21,360
[LAUGHTER]
551
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,029
You blokes are standing
in the middle over here and,
552
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,349
strictly speaking,
you can't take sides with it,
553
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:29,869
Protestants or Catholics.
554
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,989
Is it really possible
to do that, Tom?
555
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,749
No, I don't think...
556
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,749
I get embarrassed when I see it.
Why?
557
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,989
For one thing, I'm sat there going,
"Hm, hm, hm..."
558
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,949
And for another thing, I don't know.
It's just embarrassing.
559
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,840
God. I mean, look at the hair,
for one thing.
560
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,709
So you go into a Protestant area.
561
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:52,229
They give you tea, they give you
cakes. They're friendly.
562
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:53,549
You go into a Catholic area,
563
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,989
they throw bottles, they throw
stones and they shoot at you.
564
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,989
So it's only natural
you're going to be biased.
565
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,720
I'm biased. I'm biased.
566
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,040
How do you feel about Catholics now?
567
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,469
I am a Catholic.
568
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,560
And I just... I don't like
the Irish Catholics over here.
569
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,109
Not everyone out there is
out there to kill you.
570
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:18,520
But there are some.
571
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,509
News of the murders has undoubtedly
shocked people here,
572
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,909
and there's a wave
of sympathy for the Army.
573
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,229
Apparently, no-one saw anything
in the pub where the young soldiers
574
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,589
had been drinking, and no-one could
explain how they were lured out
575
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,349
to be shot at close range
in the head and left dying,
576
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,800
heaped on each other
at the side of the ditch.
577
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:55,640
The IRA killed a couple of soldiers.
578
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,869
People feared then that
the thing was escalating.
579
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,400
"Who would be next?", you know?
580
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,000
We would have seen ourselves
as British.
581
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,240
So "Brits out"... what? Does that...
Does that mean me?
582
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:27,309
You know, it wasn't like one night
there was, "Ahh!"
583
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:28,509
It wasn't like that.
584
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,909
It sort of crept in and crept in
and crept in
585
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:36,189
till it became the big monster that
sort of everybody feared was now
586
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,829
on our doorstep type of thing.
587
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,269
Shortly after that, there was
bombs and, you know, blah, blah.
588
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,389
And, you know, it was sort of
starting to move on
589
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,000
to another level.
590
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:55,829
[NEWSREADER]: Victims were not
restricted to the shooting war
591
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,429
between IRA and British soldiers.
592
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,960
The savagery of urban terrorism
was indiscriminate.
593
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,680
We just couldn't understand why
the city was getting blew up.
594
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,480
It was just horrific.
595
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,549
I mean, there wasn't a Saturday that
passed that you weren't caught up
596
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,760
in either CS gas or rioting
or bombs or something.
597
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,280
You more or less felt like
a prisoner in your own home.
598
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,000
But you didn't know what
you were going to walk into.
599
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,389
The fear of God set in then.
600
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:48,640
Trust me.
601
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,720
Our whole tactics changed.
602
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,309
The IRA weren't messing around.
603
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,709
They were killing people.
604
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:07,189
So you've got to come up
with something.
605
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,040
And that's the only thing we had.
606
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,869
Internment.
607
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,029
[ARCHIVE]: The British government
may detain, without trial,
608
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,040
anyone they suspect of terrorism.
609
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,349
On the 9th of August,
the British swept in
610
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,640
and they arrested
over 300 individuals.
611
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:35,160
They were not the right people.
612
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,909
The Provisional IRA was
relatively brand-new.
613
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,640
So they didn't know who they were.
614
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:48,109
But they knew all the old-timers
from the '50s
615
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,509
and they knew who the
civil rights people were.
616
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,149
So they arrested a lot
of civil rights people
617
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,120
and they arrested a lot of old
republicans who weren't involved.
618
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,069
[ARCHIVE]: Ulster's Catholics felt
that both house-to-house searching
619
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,469
and the policy of internment
were directed at them
620
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,960
rather than at the Protestants.
621
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,789
All those things were there,
622
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,720
give you a sense
of a community that was...
623
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:24,960
...under siege at times.
624
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,989
But, in all honesty, I have to say,
I don't remember feeling terrified.
625
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:32,829
I genuinely don't.
626
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:36,549
You know, you would almost
describe it as exciting.
627
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:38,840
It was mad. It was like a movie.
628
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,040
[EXPLOSION]
629
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,909
Children anywhere else in the world,
you would play cowboys and Indians.
630
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:56,229
We used to play soldiers
and IRA men.
631
00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,840
[MUSIC PLAYS]
632
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:32,789
And in your games, who won?
633
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,480
[HE LAUGHS]
I...
634
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:38,589
I don't know if they
ever had a winner,
635
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,029
but if there was going
to be a winner
636
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,869
it would've been the IRA,
wouldn't it?
637
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,229
[HE LAUGHS]
638
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:46,360
Oh...
639
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,949
# Armoured cars and tanks and guns #
640
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,269
# Trained to take away our sons #
641
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,269
# But every man would stand behind
the men behind the wire... #
642
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,989
This song, which British people
would consider in bad taste,
643
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,829
has become the popular anthem
of the internees.
644
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,629
The people in England don't
really know what it's all about.
645
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:12,909
# Heedless of the crying children #
646
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,749
# Dragging fathers from their beds #
647
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,229
# Beating sons while helpless mothers #
648
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:20,349
# Watched the blood flow
from their heads... #
649
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,589
The Catholic people
just can stand no more.
650
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,069
# On the people, step together #
651
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,389
# Proudly firmly on your way #
652
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,749
# Never fear and never falter #
653
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,829
# Till our boys come home to stay #
654
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,429
# Armoured cars and tanks and guns
Came to take away our sons... #
655
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,829
[MUSIC FADES OUT]
656
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,320
Did you join the IRA?
657
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:43,989
Yeah.
658
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,149
Tell me about that.
659
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,709
What's to tell you?
660
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:49,720
I joined it.
[HE CHUCKLES]
661
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,360
What made you want to join?
662
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,240
For our country, for Ireland,
to get the Brits out.
663
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,429
It's more or less a defiance,
664
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,149
making a stand...
665
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,029
...against...
666
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,389
...armoured cars and tanks
and guns, they say.
667
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,629
I mean, when you mention the IRA,
668
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,709
people think this is a team of
people come out of space
669
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:21,669
or somewhere... the IRA
was in your street.
670
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:23,509
They were in every street.
671
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,200
So the IRA were the people.
672
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,480
You'd be trained on guns, etc.
673
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,640
And back in Belfast,
you'd be on active service.
674
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,869
And how did that feel to join?
Brilliant.
675
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,069
I felt ten foot high.
676
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,069
As far as I was concerned,
677
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,549
I was doing the right thing,
absolute right thing,
678
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,389
the patriotic thing
679
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,960
to fight these foreigners
who were on Irish soil.
680
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:27,229
Before internment, the IRA
had killed ten soldiers.
681
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:29,760
By the end of the year,
they had killed 40.
682
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,920
[RADIO]: Take extreme caution
in the area.
683
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,109
My unit, in a period of four months,
had five killed
684
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:02,789
and over 100 wounded.
685
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,949
Gunshot wounds, bricks,
686
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:08,909
bottles in the face,
687
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:10,960
nail-bomb blasts...
688
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,040
...in a British city.
689
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,760
It got really serious.
690
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,629
What does your wife think
about you being over here?
691
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:38,869
The wife's very calm.
692
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,349
You know, I haven't been long
married. She's very calm.
693
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:45,669
She doesn't understand why
all these British blokes
694
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,349
should be getting killed and that.
695
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,989
All I get is, why don't you kill
the Irish so-and-sos and all this?
696
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,869
You know, they keep saying,
"What are you going back over for?"
697
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,749
I say, "It's my job.
I've got to go over."
698
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,800
- Would you like to go home, Tom?
- Yes.
699
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:08,429
You mean, would I go home
if I had the chance?
700
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,789
Well, if someone came up to me
and said that there's a plane
701
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,109
at the airport, there's your ticket,
702
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,629
I'd burn his hand with friction.
703
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,800
But I've got a job to do,
and the Army's needed here.
704
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,109
I've got a wife at home.
She doesn't want me to be here.
705
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:25,629
I'd rather be with her.
706
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,000
But my job says I come out here
so I'll follow it.
707
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,709
Have ever been tempted to
buy yourself out,
708
00:49:31,720 --> 00:49:34,149
to get shot of this place?
709
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:35,949
Er...
710
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,909
I've thought about it. Erm...
711
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:42,789
This time, in fact, this tour.
Last tour, no. This tour, yes.
712
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,520
I've seriously thought about it.
713
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,149
Will you?
714
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,200
Doubtful.
715
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:54,749
I had the conversations with my wife
716
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:56,920
about whether I wanted
to stay in or not.
717
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,120
And, er, she just said,
"It's up to you."
718
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:04,229
There was always the chance...
719
00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:06,840
always the chance...
that I wouldn't be coming back.
720
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,069
And she took it pretty hard
when I got blown up.
721
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:13,189
She really did.
722
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:14,600
Er...
723
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,480
The last thing I remember
is a wooft... gone.
724
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,429
That's it. Wooft... gone.
725
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,760
[EXPLOSION]
726
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,949
Down at the bottom of the brick
wall here,
727
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,869
they'd taken two bricks out.
728
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,669
Then they put PE behind that
729
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,389
and then concrete behind the PE.
730
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:46,549
What's PE?
731
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:48,589
Plastic explosive.
732
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:54,509
Then they had filled the front
of that hole full of bolts and nails
733
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,709
and everything else that
could find and packed it in.
734
00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:57,989
So they just triggered it
735
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:01,349
and that blew all the nails out
into the alleyway.
736
00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:02,749
Er...
737
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,629
I had about 140 stitches up
my back of my left leg,
738
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:07,309
I had shrapnel in my right leg,
739
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,869
that was broken where one
piece had gone right through.
740
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,629
And, as you can see,
that hand absolutely shattered.
741
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,749
Those fingers were, er...
742
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,800
Well, the hand was almost severed.
743
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,909
Apart from that, I was all right.
744
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:25,520
[HE CHUCKLES]
745
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,160
It's the old saying, the old adage.
746
00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:40,240
One man's freedom fighter
is another man's terrorist.
747
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,720
So are they freedom fighters
or terrorists?
748
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,629
What did you think they were?
Er, terrorists.
749
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,560
Nothing more than terrorists.
750
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,549
# If you hate the British Army,
clap your hands #
751
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:11,949
# Clap your hands #
752
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,480
# If you hate the British Army... #
753
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,880
I lived just a few streets down
from where the march was starting.
754
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,280
You know, the march protesting
against internment.
755
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:36,549
In our house that morning,
some of my brothers were...
756
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,589
...getting ready to go
757
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,749
because it was the thing to do and
was where all their friends were.
758
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,389
And girls would have met fellas,
fellas would've met girls at it,
759
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,440
you know, there would've been
all of that.
760
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,509
If the people up here at the front
761
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:57,229
think that that's an orderly
beginning to the demonstration now,
762
00:52:57,240 --> 00:52:59,269
patch yourselves on.
763
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:05,669
Now, can you please move back
behind the civil rights banner?
764
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,080
Please.
765
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,669
It started on this hill
in a Catholic area
766
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,549
overlooking Londonderry.
767
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,469
Several thousand people...
men, women and children...
768
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,949
gathered behind Civil Rights
Association banners
769
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,829
and marched down the hill
toward the British troops
770
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,040
in defiance of the ban
against demonstrations.
771
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,229
When we arrived at William Street,
they were stopping us.
772
00:53:58,240 --> 00:53:59,960
They said it was an illegal march.
773
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:14,829
And us being the great rioters
that we were, we said...
774
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:16,960
...we'll take these guys on today.
775
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,149
We broke away from the crowd
776
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,000
and we were rioting... heavy stuff.
777
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:45,760
But it didn't last that long,
you know? 15, 20 minutes.
778
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:52,800
We retreated back to the Bogside.
779
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,829
Next thing, somebody came
round the corner and said,
780
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,280
"The paratroopers are coming on up."
781
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,640
And that's when
the shooting started.
782
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:20,749
I can remember one of
our neighbours coming up
783
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,240
and he had tears in his eyes.
784
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:30,029
But I actually thought the tears
maybe were from tear gas
785
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,749
cos, at that stage, we were fairly
used to CS gas being fired
786
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,720
and, you know, makes your eyes run.
787
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,629
But I... I... I remember him saying,
788
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:42,360
"There's murder down there."
789
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,869
And he had tears in his eyes.
790
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:51,280
[SOMBRE MUSIC PLAYS]
791
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,320
And then we start to
hear the stories.
792
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:17,189
I'd seen three or four dead, like.
793
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:18,880
Two right beside me.
794
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:23,589
You just feel like...
795
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:25,320
...screaming.
796
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,320
[EXPLOSION]
797
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,589
Get away!
798
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:41,880
Get away.
799
00:56:48,280 --> 00:56:51,469
If I'm making this sound easy,
believe you me, it's not.
800
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,189
What do you mean?
801
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:54,840
Talking like this, about this.
802
00:56:56,520 --> 00:56:58,109
I mean, I get the same nightmare...
803
00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,069
I've been shot in the back,
running away.
804
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,360
And that's where most people were
shot... in the back, running away.
805
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:05,680
You know?
806
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:15,600
[HE TAKES A SHUDDERING BREATH]
807
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,389
[EXPLOSION, SCREAMING]
808
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,280
Run, you mad bastard.
809
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:41,320
I was only ten years of age...
810
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,749
...but I would've been...
811
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:50,320
...very much aware that...
812
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:54,640
...the British Army...
813
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:58,469
...were wrong.
814
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,960
I'll never understand how
it was allowed to happen.
815
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:07,240
And then how it...
816
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:13,160
...you know, how it was
attempted to be justified.
817
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:20,640
[HELICOPTER FLIES OVERHEAD]
818
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:24,389
The aim of the operation, in fact,
was an arrest operation
819
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,589
against the hooligans
who've been attacking us
820
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:28,949
for probably a couple of hours.
821
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:30,549
My information at the moment...
822
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,949
and it is very almost immediately
after the incident...
823
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,389
is that the power battalion
fired three rounds altogether
824
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:41,149
after they'd had something
between 10 and 20 fired at them.
825
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,029
They fired three rounds only.
826
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:44,389
My information at the moment...
827
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,789
- I believe there are more than three dead.
- They fired three.
828
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:48,949
I certainly, I have seen
three dead myself.
829
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,989
Well, they may well not have been
killed by our soldiers.
830
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,429
Are you saying that the paras
only opened fire
831
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:56,909
because they were fired on first?
832
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:00,069
Because the people in the Bogside
are saying that no shots were fired
833
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:02,269
at the troops as they came in.
Most certainly.
834
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,029
There's absolutely no doubt at all
835
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:08,560
that the paratroops did not open up
until they'd been fired at.
836
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,749
Oh, General Ford, aye.
837
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:15,469
Liar, liar, pants on fire!
838
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,149
He tells them too, aye.
839
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:19,669
You know, it's just "liar".
840
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:23,589
You're just thinking to yourself,
"Liar," you know?
841
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:25,429
But it makes you angry, you know?
842
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:27,120
Makes you angry.
843
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:31,029
OK, I'm just going to go back
a little bit.
844
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:33,280
When you woke up that day,
what was your plan?
845
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,120
I was never really interested
in politics, you know?
846
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,029
And my boyfriend was taking
flying lessons
847
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:51,880
and I was up in a wee plane.
848
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:01,549
And then I was sitting in his house
around five that evening
849
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,269
and started to hear the news,
actually,
850
01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,429
you know, about people dying in
Derry.
851
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,629
Never dreaming
that it was my own family,
852
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:12,189
but I was thinking,
"Jesus, this is awful."
853
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:13,469
You know, "This is awful."
854
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:15,469
And, er...
855
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:16,789
Knock at the door, then.
856
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:18,549
And it was a friend of mine.
857
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,029
She says, "Your... Your, erm...
858
01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,909
"Your brother Willie was shot dead,"
she says.
859
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:27,309
"Your father's been wounded, but
he's OK. He's in the hospital."
860
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:29,320
You know?
861
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,869
Aye. My world kind of fell
apart then, to be honest with you,
862
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,469
I just couldn't believe
it was happening.
863
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,309
I didn't... I thought then,
"Oh, this is just a nightmare.
864
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,629
"I'm sleeping and I have to wake up
and... Please wake up, kid.
865
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,429
"Wake up. Please, God,
don't let this happen.
866
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:48,040
"Please, God. Please, God.
Please, God."
867
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,869
My father had to come out
in a hail of bullets,
868
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,360
running towards the barricade,
to help his son.
869
01:01:01,160 --> 01:01:04,080
People there said
they couldn't stop him.
870
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,309
I just... I had to get home.
871
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,829
I had to get home and I had to see
my father, you know.
872
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:18,000
Do you know what I mean?
873
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,229
The minute I got to him, I said to
him about his wound, you know,
874
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,200
I said, "That looks sore."
875
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,589
And he says, erm...
876
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:31,669
"Willie's in the morgue."
877
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:34,029
I still remember that.
878
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,069
I remember that vividly, actually.
879
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,309
"Willie's in the morgue," you know,
and he's just...
880
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,749
My father was a big, smiling man,
you know, he...
881
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:44,149
...he never looked like that.
882
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:48,269
Never looked like that,
the way he looked that night.
883
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:50,429
I mean, he was there with Willie,
884
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:53,040
right there with him,
you know, when he died.
885
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:57,840
Aye.
886
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:03,200
Oh, God love him.
887
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,669
We, in the Protestant community,
believed that
888
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:12,509
every one of those people
that were shot on Bloody Sunday
889
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:13,840
deserved to be shot.
890
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,909
You know, people were saying
all these people were murdered
891
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,069
and the people in my community were
saying they weren't really murders,
892
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,509
no, they were shooting at the army
and the army shot back
893
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:24,760
and killed them, like, so.
894
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,029
Here we are with an audience,
a Protestant audience,
895
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,669
from the Shankill area of Belfast.
896
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:35,109
The paras in Londonderry,
they call it Bloody Sunday.
897
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:36,469
We call it Good Sunday,
898
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:38,829
- because it was the first time that the...
- You call it what?
899
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,349
We call it a good Sunday because
the troops did their duty...
900
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:45,629
- Oh, surely now...
- ...as we Protestants should see it been done.
901
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,029
That is, if gunmen opened fire
on them,
902
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:50,309
they have the right
to reply with gunfire.
903
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,349
Not rubber bullets.
Not rubber bullets.
904
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,589
We have no hesitation
in saying here now
905
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,589
that the troops didn't shoot
half enough of them that day.
906
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,189
- Oh, I'm sure that...
- We are all in agreement on that here today.
907
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,349
All right, first of all...
All right, let me just see,
908
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,829
how many of you think of it not as
Bloody Sunday, but Good Sunday?
909
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:08,309
[CHORUS OF AGREEMENT]
910
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:09,829
Good Sunday, yes.
911
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:11,429
We used to sing songs, you know,
912
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:13,749
"We shot one, we shot two,
913
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:15,840
"We shot 13 more than you."
914
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:19,360
Not nice.
915
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:24,469
But I can remember cheering,
you know,
916
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:26,629
and laughing and clapping my hands.
917
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:29,749
I went, "Yay! Yeah!
That's... Woo!
918
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:30,800
"Woo, woo, woo!"
919
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:34,600
You know?
920
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:39,589
Do you feel guilty for those years?
921
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:40,629
Of course I do.
922
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:44,469
No, there's part of me inside
that feels bad to this day.
923
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:46,989
Like, how could you not?
You're looking back and saying,
924
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:50,560
"Oh, Jesus Christ, was I that
person? Was I ever that person?"
925
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:52,800
Clearly...
926
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:55,880
...I once was that person, you know?
927
01:03:57,240 --> 01:04:00,069
And, to this day...
and you've been in Derry...
928
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:03,560
in loyalist areas, what do you
see flying from lampposts?
929
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:06,440
Paratroop flags.
930
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:08,800
Second Battalion.
931
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:13,469
I can't get my fucking head
around that
932
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:17,040
and I grew up a loyalist and I
cannot get my head around that.
933
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:25,560
There's not many people
don't know the truth.
934
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:29,389
And if you don't know the truth,
you don't want to know the truth.
935
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:30,869
That's...
936
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:32,400
That's where I'm at, you know?
937
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:37,720
Mm-hm.
938
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:47,069
# Until this life is over #
939
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:53,549
# And then forever more #
940
01:04:53,560 --> 01:05:00,269
# Oh, sacred heart of Jesus #
941
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:06,480
# We love ye and adore. #
942
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:12,469
The thing that stands out
in my mind,
943
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,669
almost most of all,
944
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:17,320
was seeing 13 coffins on the altar.
945
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,429
And it sort of brought it home,
946
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:23,760
the enormity of what
happened that day.
947
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:29,109
And you did sort of think,
948
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:31,480
there's no turning back now, like.
949
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:33,720
You can't undo this.
950
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:41,320
And when I think of it as
a young boy, I think that...
951
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,160
...something changed,
as well, because...
952
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,400
...it wasn't funny any more.
953
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:53,680
Or it wasn't exciting any more.
954
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:57,560
It wasn't like a movie any more.
955
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:02,760
[HE EXHALES]
956
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:11,360
[DAVID CAMERON]: The conclusions of
this report are absolutely clear.
957
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:19,069
What happened on Bloody Sunday was
both unjustified and unjustifiable.
958
01:06:19,080 --> 01:06:20,920
It was wrong.
959
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:25,509
The first shot was fired
by the British Army.
960
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:29,520
[SHE WAILS]: Oh, I miss you
and I loved you.
961
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:37,469
What's more, some of those killed
or injured were clearly fleeing
962
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:40,400
or going to the assistance
of others who were dying.
963
01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:48,360
One person was shot while
crawling away from the soldiers.
964
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:56,029
There was some firing by
republican paramilitaries,
965
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:59,389
but none of this firing
provided any justification
966
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,120
for the shooting of civilians.
967
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:13,960
And the report refers
to the father...
968
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:16,429
...who was hit and injured
969
01:07:16,440 --> 01:07:19,800
by Army gunfire after he had
gone to tend to his son.
970
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:25,589
On behalf of our country,
971
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:27,040
I am deeply sorry.
972
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:35,349
That's Willie.
973
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:36,640
He's smiling away.
974
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:41,320
Wondering, "What can I do next?
What can I get up next?"
975
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:46,069
Well, he was a funny guy.
976
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:50,240
I'm sure he would've ended up,
you know, with some nice girl.
977
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:53,240
He was a nice fella, aye.
978
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:58,509
Aye.
979
01:07:58,520 --> 01:07:59,720
Terrible.
980
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:10,600
You can't apologise for murder.
981
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:14,720
Committing a crime like that
requires justice.
982
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:18,400
Aye, an apology is not enough.
983
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:40,709
My brother was murdered.
984
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:42,680
My brother was shot down
in cold blood.
985
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:57,840
But why?
986
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:01,909
Why?
987
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:04,669
Is it pure hate?
988
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:06,669
Do they hate...?
Do they hate us?
989
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:09,080
Do those people in power
over there hate us?
990
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:12,429
Is that what it feels like to you?
991
01:09:12,440 --> 01:09:13,520
Aye.
992
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:23,600
What else could it be?
993
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:48,989
Bloody Sunday...
994
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,109
...I feel...
995
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:54,240
...just sealed my brother Jim's fate.
996
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:00,709
He was so incensed by it. He...
997
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,160
He thought, "Right, that's it.
I'm signing up."
998
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,589
And when you say signing up...?
He signed up to the IRA.
999
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:08,869
Erm...
1000
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:10,269
So many people done it,
1001
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:14,109
and, I mean, you had boys lying
about their age just to sign up.
1002
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:16,669
And, erm... Do you know what?
1003
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:21,189
That alone was the biggest
recruitment drive...
1004
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:22,560
....for the IRA... ever.
1005
01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:26,200
So, he was 16 years old
when he signed up.
1006
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:29,229
I'm sure when you're that age,
1007
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,320
you think you're going
to save the world.
1008
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:38,120
Four years later, he was dead.
1009
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:42,080
Killed by a British soldier.
1010
01:10:47,480 --> 01:10:49,269
I've had people
actually saying to me,
1011
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:51,040
"Well, you deserve what you get."
1012
01:10:53,760 --> 01:10:56,680
Sure, we were the thugs
and we were the terrorists.
1013
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:03,229
Well, I think that's everybody
has their own terrorist
1014
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:05,560
and the British Army are mine.
1015
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:09,600
They always were and
they always will be.
1016
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:12,520
That's just the way I view it.
1017
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:15,829
They...
1018
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,920
You know, they inflicted
terror on me.
1019
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:20,520
They traumatised me.
1020
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:25,080
So, you know...
1021
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:28,760
...that's what they are to me.
1022
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:47,840
It was snowing and...
1023
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:50,920
...there's four or five of us
in the house.
1024
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:55,280
And we heard about Bloody Sunday.
1025
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:01,240
I'm going to leave it at that.
1026
01:12:03,040 --> 01:12:06,120
- What do you mean? Why...? Why?
- Because...
1027
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:09,600
Just... I don't really want
to talk about it.
1028
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:17,269
We were very, very angry
1029
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:21,840
that 14 innocent people had been
mowed down by the paras...
1030
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:34,400
...but have very
vivid memories of it.
1031
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,120
It wasn't too hard to say
to yourself, "You know what?
1032
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:53,920
"I'm ready, boys.
Come on, let's have it."
1033
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:58,309
My knowledge at the time
was that we were like
1034
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:00,160
the French Resistance...
1035
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:03,600
...to the Nazis.
1036
01:13:19,240 --> 01:13:21,869
My name is Ricky.
1037
01:13:21,880 --> 01:13:25,480
I was involved in the struggle
for Irish freedom.
1038
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:37,320
As far as I was concerned...
1039
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:40,000
...this is war.
1040
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:46,840
[GUNSHOT]
1041
01:13:58,360 --> 01:14:02,000
My community, my people, my city
was being attacked by the IRA.
1042
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:06,829
We needed to fight back
and this was our army.
1043
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:09,589
I was in charge of guns
when I was 17.
1044
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:10,840
Guilty as charged.
1045
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:15,749
When you went down to the Harp Bar,
1046
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:17,869
religion went out the window.
1047
01:14:17,880 --> 01:14:19,949
I mean, it was a dump.
1048
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:21,240
But it was our dump.
1049
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:28,600
To watch exclusive interviews about
the making of this series, visit...
1050
01:14:33,440 --> 01:14:35,840
...and follow the links
to the Open University.
80539
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