All language subtitles for John.Lennon.Murder.Without.A.Trial.S01E03.720p.ATVP.WEBRip.x264-GalaxyTV.Sdh

[people clamoring, clapping]

[gunshots]

[people screaming]

[people shouting indistinctly]

[Sutherland] Only three months
after the shooting of John Lennon,

President Reagan is gunned
down in Washington, D.C.

[reporter 1] In custody tonight,

charged with firing the
shots at the president

and those around him, is a young
man named John Hinckley Jr.

[Sutherland] Like
Lennon's murder,

the shooting is in full
view of the public,

and the suspect is
apprehended at the scene.

[reporter 2] Security
was extremely tight

as John Hinckley Jr. arrived
at the federal courthouse

in an armored motorcade, surrounded
by armed federal marshals.

[Sutherland] In another
parallel to the Lennon case,

a copy of The Catcher in the Rye
is found in Hinckley's hotel room.

His defense team plan to prove he's
not guilty by reason of insanity.

Schizophrenia is... is considered the
most severe of the mental illnesses.

This would refer to people who are
experiencing hearing of... of voices,

that are developing
false belief systems,

uh, that are becoming
dominant in their life.

[reporter 3] Carpenter said John
Hinckley suffered from schizophrenia

and could not conform to the law
or realize what he was doing.

[Carpenter] There was no assumption
that he would be found not guilty

by reason of insanity.

Um, there was an assumption
that the public would be upset.

[stammers] I mean,
the... there'd be anger.

[reporter 4] The Hinckley verdict:
Innocent by reason of insanity.

Reacting to that verdict
today, many New Yorkers

said the insanity defense
was just a cop-out.

Think he sh... he's guilty
'cause I don't believe

in the insanity
clause or whatever.

People hate the insanity
defense being successful.

And it seems to be taken as a
given that if it's a heinous crime,

that the person's
gotta pay for it.

[reporter 5] Mark David
Chapman, the accused killer

of former Beatle John
Lennon has pleaded innocent

to the shooting by
reason of insanity.

[reporter 6] But when
Chapman was asked,

"How do you plead to the charge
of second-degree murder?"

the answer was, "Not guilty
by reason of insanity."

[Sutherland] Chapman never
denies shooting Lennon.

And after much psychiatric
assessment, including hypnosis,

his defense team believe he was insane
at the time he pulled the trigger.

It'll be a controversial defense, and
they prepare their client for trial.

[lawyer] The law is that
if you were legally insane

at the time that you...
that you killed John Lennon,

then you must be acquitted
by reason of insanity.

That you don't go to prison, but
instead you go to a state institution.

- [court member 1] A mental hospital.
- [lawyer] Mental hospital. Exactly.

Is the question in this trial
going to be his state of mind

the night of the shooting?

Uh, the on... the only issue in
this... in this trial, really, will be,

uh, whether or not he was, uh, insane
at the time of the... of the shooting.

And I think that our witnesses
will establish that he was.

Whether or not we can get a
jury to find that he is, uh,

not guilty by reason of
insanity is another question.

I found that the climate is extremely
hostile towards Mr. Chapman.

It doesn't come as a
surprise, but it is.

[Suggs] Pretty much everyone was
feeling pretty emotional about this,

and there was a lot of animosity,
obviously, towards Chapman.

His last attorney, he
was only on it for, like,

a couple of days before he
quit because of death threats.

I know we... we got some death
threats as well through the mail.

You know, that L... Lennon was, uh...
was near godlike, and how dare we,

you know, defend this man who, uh...
who murdered him in cold blood,

and, "You'll pay
the price for this."

The other element at that time was
the attempted assassination of Reagan.

And that really kicked up
a lot of public sentiment

against the insanity
defense in general.

We knew we were gonna be facing
a very, very uphill battle.

[Sutherland] The prosecution
doesn't accept the insanity plea.

They believe Chapman
killed Lennon for fame.

[Hogrefe] In the context of this
interview that I'm having now,

I will not use the
defendant's name, uh,

because I don't wish to be
part or parcel, uh, of any,

um... [stammers] ...situation which
brings attention to him by name.

So, I will refer to him
repeatedly as "the defendant."

I will not use his name.

This defendant
wanted to be arrested

because this was what was going
to bring attention to himself.

He didn't seek to flee
the scene of the crime.

He could very easily have run
to get into the subway system

and try to flee in that way, or
flee into the park, but he didn't.

He just stood there and waited.

[Suggs] Their theory was
that Chapman was a failure,

he hadn't succeeded in anything,
he had these delusions of grandeur,

and he wanted a
lot of publicity.

Is it... Is it rational, is it sane
for someone to murder some other human

in cold blood with the...

the full knowledge that
as a result of that,

they're likely gonna wind up in,
uh... [stutters] ...prison for life

or in a mental
institution for life?

So they can, you know,
have an article or two

on the front page of the papers?

It just does not make sense.

[Sutherland] The prosecution will explain
to the jury that Chapman's movements

before the shooting show that this
was not a random act of madness,

but instead a meticulously
planned murder.

[Taira] The gun used to
kill John Lennon was traced

by New York authorities
to J&S Enterprises.

A sales receipt shows
the gun was purchased

by Mark Chapman on
October 27th of this year.

Guy looked like a normal, uh, upright
human being when he bought it.

He buys it and goes out and does
something like this six weeks later.

What the hell can
you do, you know?

[Hogrefe] What the defendant's
behavior leading up to the crime,

uh, indicated was
that he was rational.

He had the gun... he came to New York...
but he didn't have any bullets for it.

Having not been able to
buy bullets in New York,

he went to visit this friend of
his in the Atlanta, Georgia area

and got bullets from him.

Not only that.

Before the murder, he had met
up with a couple of female fans

that stood in front of the Dakota
on a regular basis trying to meet

with John Lennon as he... as he
entered or left his apartment building.

So, there was no indication
that he was suffering

from such a mental disease, uh,

that would cause him to not be
able to function appropriately.

[Sutherland] But recordings made by
his defense team at Rikers Island

before the trial reveal how
incoherent Chapman's thinking is.

[Chapman] I'm under complete
understanding now of what happened,

and it's very clear
and very rational.

It is my sincere belief
that I killed John Lennon

to get as many people as possible
to read The Catcher in the Rye.

[Chapman] All of my efforts will
now be devoted toward this goal.

[Suggs] People ask me, you know,
"Why did he kill Lennon?" I...

And I said, "Well, he
said, because he wanted

to promote the reading of
The Catcher in the Rye."

And they sort of look at me with
puzzlement, and... and... and I say,

"Your... Your question assumes that
there's some sort of rational reason

for why, you know, a
crazy man kills another...

[stammers] ...human
in cold blood."

I said, "You're... You're not ever
gonna get a rational explanation

for... for why a crazy
person did a crazy act."

The character in the book was a young
man in his teens called Holden Caulfield,

who goes to New York on a
weekend, and he's disillusioned

by what he sees as the
phoniness of the world.

You know... [stutters] ...as a young child,
you're told that the world works one way,

and as you get older,
you see that, uh,

there are aspects of it that
are false and... and phony.

[Sutherland] Chapman tells his
defense team he's the Holden Caulfield

of his generation
and on a mission

to rid the world of people
he considers phonies.

[Chapman] Here's what I
say about John Lennon.

"All you need is love."
Have you ever heard that?

Well, this is what
I say to that:

All you need is love
and $250 million.

He was the biggest, phoniest
bastard that ever lived.

I wasn't about to let the
world endure ten more years

of his menagerie of bullshit.

In my view, he was
obviously insane, you know,

when I came across him,

and we just needed
to have a testimony

that would demonstrate
the fact that, you know,

he was not in touch with reality, and,
um, you know, is clearly mentally ill.

You know, trying to find out why
somebody went crazy is a difficult,

difficult thing to do.

But there are obviously...
[stammers] a bunch of people who,

uh, had some insights.

So, we went about interviewing, uh,
people who had known him in the past.

[Sutherland] The defense team travel
to Chapman's hometown in Georgia

and speak to childhood friends.

[friend] Well, when I first met
Mark, everything seemed fine.

The typical American family.

But as time went on,

I noticed that something
dark was happening.

He'd be told to
"go to your room."

And then Mark's dad would come in
with a belt and start hitting him,

even using the buckle end...

just go into a fit
and just pound away.

But then, uh, he
would stop and leave,

and then you could hear him
downstairs, uh, beating on his mother.

I mean, he beat the
snot out of his mother.

And then Mark's dad
would go to the bedroom

or to wherever the TV
was at and sit down,

and 30 minutes later, be a
completely different person.

It's just that little
click that happened.

I went up to his house
one day, and he said,

"Hey, look. I've got
some marijuana here."

But then, uh, there was
mescaline that showed up,

uh, opium that showed
up, and then the acid

from California would show up.

And one particular weekend,
Mark took eight hits of LSD-25,

which was very powerful, and
disappeared for the weekend.

Sunday evening, I got in
touch with Mark, and I said,

"Where were you at all weekend?" He
said, "Man, you won't believe it.

[stammers] I... I saw Jesus
Christ and he was just beautiful,

and he was talking to me."

[Sutherland] Chapman's chaotic childhood
leads him to the local church in Atlanta.

[pastor] Mark was kind of a loner,
uh, didn't have lots of friends,

and I got the impression that, uh, his
home life was an unhappy home life.

He... He was playing around
with drugs and was very, very

uh, involved in hard
rock, acid rock music.

In the South, in those days,

people would identify with
the local church and, uh,

most of them would be pretty active
and pretty faithful in the church.

Mark had no church
background that I know of.

And so, when he professed
faith in Christ,

it was my privilege to baptize
him in this very sanctuary,

and to shepherd him.

He immediately found a group of
people who loved him and accepted him.

And he was quite attracted to one
of the girls in the youth group.

Um, uh, Jessica.

[woman] I usually
start by saying,

"I used to date Mark Chapman who
later on killed John Lennon,"

and... [stammers]
everybody's really shocked.

[Sutherland] Ex-girlfriend,
Jessica Blankenship,

might prove a key witness
at Chapman's trial.

[Blankenship] I was 16,

and I was at a retreat,
um, with my church.

Someone had invited him to come.

I just thought he was kind of
cool and sensitive, you know.

His feelings really came
through when he talked.

He just had a great
sense of humor.

And I guess I was
smitten. [chuckles]

He was, um, an
excellent guitar player,

and he could play anything.

Um, he particularly loved the
Beatles until John Lennon said

that they were more
popular than Jesus Christ.

He wanted to learn more about the
Bible and grow deeper in his faith.

What the problem was,
he got very depressed.

He would just sort of pour
his heart out about how, uh,

sad he was,

and he just didn't feel
like he could make it.

I felt like he was having
a nervous breakdown.

I was actually begging him to
get some psychological help,

and he would say,

"I don't need to talk
to anybody." [chuckles]

He also, at that point,
started yelling at me,

and this was about the time I believe
the relationship started falling apart.

[Sutherland] The breakdown
of this relationship

means Chapman's looking
for a fresh start.

He decides to move to Hawaii.

[Chapman] Think about it.
Hawaii, beautiful place to live.

Weather's perfect.
Then it would be ideal.

It would be like the
Garden of the Eden.

But I was getting
depressed again,

and I was just sick and
tired of everything,

things I thought were gonna be so good
and they turned out the exact opposite.

[Blankenship] He drove to this
beautiful spot near the ocean,

and, um, he took a ho... hose

and took it from
the exhaust pipe,

um, and back into the, um, car.

And then he just sat
there, waiting to die.

[Chapman] It was a relief when I
realized that I was gonna be dead.

Life sure stinks.

[Sutherland] The defense team believe
the suicide attempt is evidence

of Chapman's mental
health issues,

but it only reinforces the prosecution's
belief he craves attention.

[Hogrefe] He had engaged in what I
would call a feigned suicide attempt.

Again, activity designed to
bring attention to himself.

This was a 25-year-old person who
had engaged in conduct in the past...

none of which was
particularly noteworthy... uh,

who was frustrated by
that, and... and had a, uh,

personality disorder that felt
that he was worthy of attention.

It is incredibly unfortunate
that he sought to, uh,

bring that attention to
himself by stealing, uh,

the... the... the... the fame
of someone like John Lennon.

[sirens wailing]

[Sutherland] The world's media now
gather for the trial of Mark Chapman.

They hope to finally
understand why a global icon

has been gunned
down in cold blood.

[reporter 7] In New York, two
dozen spectators were searched

and admitted to the opening
of the trial of Mark Chapman.

[reporter 8] It was the
first day of jury selection,

the beginning of a long trial.

A mob of reporters and some spectators
waited to get into the courtroom.

[Shipp] I love trials.

I find this great
opportunity to see drama.

There's a certain kind of
excitement that kicks in

and the adrenaline
goes up a notch.

I was a rookie reporter, and this
was one of my first big stories.

The whole world was watching.

He really did intend
to kill John Lennon.

He really did know what he was
doing when he killed John Lennon.

[Sutherland] Emotions
are running high

and opinions around
Chapman remain divided.

We love John!

For killing the legend, a loved,
peacing man like John Lennon.

- He should get the death penalty.
- John believed in peace.

To anyone out there who's
a true John Lennon fan,

don't touch the guy.

'Cause John Lennon just wouldn't like
it. It's not what he was on about.

John Lennon was on
about forgiveness.

People are people, no matter
what... what they turn out like.

How sick... The guy's just
sick. That's all there is to it.

[Hogrefe] I'm sure some of his friends
would say his activity was not normal,

but there was no evidence to
suggest that he was suffering

from a mental disease so
severe that he didn't know

what he was doing or
that it was wrong.

That is the key
issue in the case.

[Shipp] It was a lot of
excitement as we gathered there

outside of that courtroom,

waiting for the doors to
open and the games to begin.

[reporter 9] This was the
scene on the 13th floor

outside Judge Dennis
Edwards' courtroom.

The hallway was crawling with
reporters and crews flown in

from all over the world for
the sensational murder case.

So everybody was outside
of the courtroom,

waiting for the doors to open.

But after an hour
went by and even more,

we began to worry that
something was going on

and we were not a part of it.

[Hogrefe] The judge decided in his
discretion to close the courtroom.

So the only people that
were there, uh, were myself,

the senior prosecutor, the
defense attorneys and the judge.

[Sutherland] Behind the
closed doors of the courtroom,

events take an unexpected turn.

Chapman has pleaded guilty.
[chuckles] And we were going, "What?"

[Sutherland] Even more bizarre
is the reason Chapman gives

for his sudden guilty plea.

He said God came to him in his
cell and told him to plead guilty,

um, and that he felt a great
sense of relief after that.

[Chapman] I'm sitting
in front of the radio,

listening to rock music,

and I just felt the Holy
Spirit talk to my heart.

And... And I knew that evening, you
know, the Lord wanted me to plead guilty.

Uh, but I didn't want to. I
wanted to go ahead with it.

[gavel banging]

[Suggs] We told the judge
that it was, you know,

further evidence
of his insanity.

And that's when the judge said, "I
have relatives who believe they speak

with God every day, and I'm not
about to say that they're insane."

And that was pretty
much the end of it.

God told him to do it.
That's why Mark David Chapman

claims he switched his plea
from innocent to guilty

in the killing of former
Beatle John Lennon.

[Suggs] If a judge has a
defendant before him who's willing

to... to plead guilty and forgo a trial,
from the judge's perspective, that's fine.

To some extent, I wasn't
surprised, I mean,

'cause he had... he had
talked earlier before

about how he was afraid that if
he went to a mental hospital,

he was gonna be surrounded
by demons everywhere.

And he was just adamant:

He did not want to go
to a mental hospital,

even though he was
obviously crazy. [chuckles]

Chapman's plea cuts off a trial
that could have revealed his reasons

for pumping four bullets into one of
the greatest stars of modern music.

[reporter 10] Defense
attorney Jonathan Marks

said he was very disappointed
by his client's decision.

Was, uh, greatly looking
forward to what would have been

I think, uh, a very exciting... [stammers]
and interesting and useful trial.

Because I think that
there are a lot of people

who would have been
educated about, uh...

about Mark Chapman and about the
insanity defense as a result of it.

- Do you think he is insane?
- Yes, I certainly do.

- There's no doubt in my mind about that.
- Legally insane?

Legally insane. That's correct.

[sirens wailing]

[sighs] Yeah, obviously,
the psychiatric testimony

would have been, uh, critical.

The prosecution... their description
that he was seeking attention,

that he had these
delusions of grandeur...

yes, it was a partial description
of Chapman and his conduct,

but it was by no
means a full picture.

The depths of his
insanity were far greater

than they were willing
to acknowledge.

[Sutherland] Dr. Liza Gold
is a forensic psychiatrist

specializing in the
insanity defense.

She wasn't involved
in Chapman's case,

but assesses decisions
made at the time.

The lawyer said, "I don't
think he's competent."

I'm not sure why a judge
would... would say,

"Well, I think he is."
[stammers] He's a judge.

He's not a mental
health professional.

I would have voted for him to
get another competency hearing.

I would want someone
to ask him, you know,

"Why are you
changing your mind?"

My suspicion is that he was
starting to fray under the stress

of an upcoming
high-profile media circus.

[Sutherland] Awaiting
sentencing at Rikers Island,

the full extent of Chapman's
mental state is becoming apparent.

[Suggs] This is a memo
I wrote to the file.

"On July 12, 1981, Mark Chapman
underwent a violent psychotic episode

at Rikers Island
Prison Hospital.

He threw a chair
at a television set

and taunted in a high-pitched
voice saying that he was a demon.

He was then locked in his
cell and began jumping around,

climbing the bars of his cell, and
screeching and hooting like a monkey."

By the time I saw him,
he had been medicated

with a powerful
antipsychotic drug.

He told me that he... [stammers]
was possessed by two demons.

He had already pleaded guilty.

He had nothing to gain by this.

I thought that was
pretty powerful evidence

for, uh, again, his insanity.

[Sutherland] In the
months after the shooting,

Yoko is still coming to terms
with the sudden loss of John.

[Ono] We were doing very
well in New York together,

and that's gone, you know.

And the... the fact that he
was gone so suddenly too,

I think that affected me because
if it was a slow process,

we could have talked
about it or anything.

But the... the last John I
remember is a very gregarious,

energetic,
high-spirited guy. Hmm.

[Sutherland] Mark Chapman now
appears in public for sentencing.

It's a final chance
for his legal team

to request leniency based
on his mental health.

[reporter 11] Authorities
take no chances with Chapman.

Figuring there are too many
die-hard Lennon fans around,

Chapman arrived at court this
morning unseen under tight security.

[Hogrefe] When the
defendant was sentenced,

uh, the-the courtroom was open,
so the members of the public,

uh, packed the courtroom.

Uh, the first couple of rows
in the courtroom filled with,

uh... with reporters and...
and members of the press.

[reporter 12] Guards used metal
detectors to search everyone

who entered the courtroom.

Inside, Mark David Chapman,

wearing a bulletproof
vest under his shirt,

sat clutching a paperback copy of
J. D. Salinger's Catcher in the Rye.

[Shipp] We'd seen Chapman
in the initial arraignment,

and we'd seen Chapman after
he had pleaded guilty.

The sentencing became an
opportunity to actually hear him.

[reporter 13] Chapman made no
reference to the man he killed

when he took the judge up on
his offer to address the court.

Instead, Chapman read a passage
from the book he's carried

with him through most of
the court proceedings,

J. D. Salinger's
Catcher in the Rye.

[Gold] He never
articulates a reason

why publicizing the book
is such a good thing.

He felt this book
was so important

that it was his statement
to commit an act like this.

You wanna know something?

Everybody on the
case read it but me.

I just didn't buy it.

This is the first time I'm admitting
publicly that I did not read this book.

[Gold] He tries to get his name
changed to Holden Caulfield.

You know, he's... he's
trying to be those people.

There is really...
isn't a rational reason

for thinking you're gonna
turn into somebody else,

but it says how much he
doesn't want to be him.

[reporter 14] Today, two
of Chapman's psychiatrists

urged more treatment for him.

[Hoffman] They got a shrink
that said he was crazy,

so we got a shrink that
said he's not crazy.

Then they got another
shrink to say he's crazy,

and we got another
one to say he's not.

All I know is, I spoke to a lot
of psychiatrists on the job,

and most of them are
crazy themselves.

[reporter 15] Today, Mark
David Chapman was sentenced

to 20 years to
life for the murder

- of former Beatle John Lennon.
- [reporter 16] ...Chapman was sentenced

to 20 years to life for
the murder of John Lennon.

[reporter 17] There was also no
question he was criminally responsible

for a premeditated
act of murder.

[reporter 18] The defense attorney didn't
dispute the facts, just the conclusion.

Absolutely. It certainly
was carefully planned.

It was well carried out. It was
intentional. It was also insane.

[reporter 19] You
are Marks, right?

[Suggs] At that point, Jonathan and
I both knew he was gonna be in prison

for the rest of his life,
and that if he was in prison,

he wasn't gonna be getting
any psychiatric treatment.

Um, and that didn't seem
like the right result to me.

[Sutherland] Yoko remains at the
Dakota building with their son, Sean,

trying to process
what's happened.

[Ono] The only thing that I regret is
the fact that John had to die the...

the way he did, you know.

And some people say if John
was not in America, uh,

if he was in a... Britain, for
instance, he wouldn't have,

uh, been, uh, shot to death.

Maybe we should have
been more careful.

[photographer] After John died,

it was such an enormous
shock for all of us.

We were all pretty numb.

Uh, Yoko was quite a pillar
of strength in that time.

And John did not die
because he committed suicide

or he was drugged or... or he
w... he had a heart attack.

No, John was, um, killed,

and it was very important for
me to show that to the world.

And both John and I were always
trying to make a peaceful world.

And it's very ironical that
John, who loved peace so much,

died in such a violent way.

[Gruen] I remember Yoko saying that when
the leader with the flag goes down...

[clicks tongue] ...someone else has
to pick up that flag and keep going.

[Sutherland] Yoko
eventually found a way

of turning John's death
into a force for good.

[Gruen] When she shared the
picture of John's bloody glasses

as an album cover,

a lot of people were very horrified
that she could do something like that.

Uh, she called me that morning to help
her take the picture of the glasses.

Um, I went to the Dakota
and I set up some lights,

and she wanted to have the glasses on
a windowsill with a glass of water,

and Central Park on the
other side of the window.

I felt it was her picture to take,
and so I took my other camera

and took a picture of
her taking the picture.

Now, when you look at that
picture of the glasses,

you feel that horror.

And that is one tiny bit of
what Yoko actually feels,

because she was there.

She saw the glasses happen.

But if you feel that bad
looking at a picture of it,

you can imagine a little
bit of how Yoko's feeling.

[Ono] The glasses that he was
wearing, um, in the last moment,

it was, uh, a kind of statement about
how important to have gun control.

[protesters clamoring]

Something has to be
done about the guns,

gun control, and the
minds of this country,

the people who carry guns.

It's... It's horrible.

If Chapman had a knife instead of a
gun, John Lennon might still be alive.

Guns are very lethal.
There's no turning back.

The final decision to do it can
actually be quite impulsive.

And that's what appeared
to happen with Chapman.

[Sutherland] Chapman has spent nearly
ten years in solitary confinement

when he accepts an offer
to be interviewed in prison

by US talk show
host, Larry King.

[announcer] Tonight, 12
years ago, the music died

when Mark David Chapman shot and
killed former Beatle John Lennon...

[Sutherland] It's the first time the
American public has heard directly

from John Lennon's killer.

Mark David Chapman joins us from
Attica Correctional Facility on this,

the 12th anniversary
of John Lennon's death.

Mark, why... why now?
Why tell the story now?

Well, Larry, I'm...
I'm well now.

I've had a number of
years of... of wellness.

I feel good.

There's always been things inside of
me that I wanted to... to get out,

to tell people why
I did what I did.

Back then, I was lost.

And I didn't know who
I was, but now I do.

Uh, therefore, you... you
have to have daily regrets.

I have regrets. I'm
sorry for what I did.

I realize now that I... I
really ended a man's life.

Then, he was an
album cover to me.

He didn't exist, even when
I met him earlier that day

when he signed the album for me,
which he did very graciously.

And he was not a phony, by the
way. He was, uh, very patient.

I just saw him as a...

- as a two-dimensional celebrity...
- Okay.

- ...with no real feelings.
- What cured

what you believe
was schizophrenia?

Well, not medication and
not doctors, but the Lord.

Mark David Chapman was a
failure in his own mind.

He wanted to become
somebody important, Larry.

He didn't know how to
handle being a nobody.

He tried to be a... a
somebody through his years.

But as he progressively
got worse...

And I believe I was
schizophrenic at the time.

- No one can tell me I wasn't.
- Hmm.

Although I was responsible,
Mark David Chapman struck out

at something he
perceived to be phony,

something he was angry at, to
become something he wasn't,

to become somebody.

[reporter 20] Chapman
says he's a changed man,

a born-again Christian,
sorry for what he did.

Now for the first time, and
after almost 20 years in prison,

Chapman goes before the parole
board today seeking his freedom.

[reporter 21] Yoko Ono
wrote to the parole board

that "should Chapman be released, myself
and John's two sons Sean and Julian

would not feel safe for
the rest of our lives."

[interviewer] Should Mark
David Chapman be forgiven?

Um... I know that the pope,

uh, went to the jail and, uh,

visited the jail, uh, and, uh...
and, uh, forgave this person

who was trying to assassinate
him, something like that.

But I'm not a pope...
[chuckles] ...and it's, um,

very difficult for me to
forgive what happened.

[reporter 22] This is Mark David
Chapman's third parole board hearing.

He is now 49 years old

an inmate at Attica State
Prison for nearly 24 years.

[Sutherland] Chapman has been eligible
for parole since the year 2000

and at every opportunity
it's been denied.

[interviewee] I think it's
just terrible that someone

who killed a member
of the Beatles

is going to potentially
be let out of prison.

[McGowan] I do still see him.

He's paid a bigger penalty
than a lot of people realize

because he's having to live
in isolation in prison.

He can't even go to chapel
services because of fear of harm

to him from other prisoners.

Under any other circumstance,

he would have been tried
as an insane person.

When he talked about the... the
struggle and the compulsion that he had,

we'd call that a psychosis.

If he had shot somebody
who wasn't famous,

I don't think he'd be in prison
today. But he shot the wrong man.

I'm absolutely convinced that
he's no longer dangerous.

The man who tried to
kill President Reagan,

uh, he just was released and
he was judged to be insane.

[Sutherland] John Hinckley Jr. Was
found not guilty by reason of insanity

for the shooting of
President Reagan.

[reporter 23] John
Hinckley Jr. will be freed

after 35 years and released
to live with his mother.

[Sutherland] He was successfully
treated in a psychiatric hospital

and is no longer deemed
a danger to society.

I'm here today to call on the
New York State Parole Board

to deny the release
of Mark Chapman.

[Sutherland] Mark Chapman
meanwhile remains in prison

with limited access to
psychiatric treatment.

[Suggs] You know, I try to have
compassion for all my clients,

uh, you know, and...
and sometimes that's...

that's harder to do
than... than other times.

And I had... I had
compassion for him.

I mean, who could explain
why somebody goes crazy?

I mean, I... I don't think he...
he wanted to c... You know,

if he'd had a choice,

I don't think he would have chosen to
be crazy, um, but he was, you know.

And, um, so I had compassion
for him because of that.

[Sutherland] John Lennon
died over 40 years ago,

but the words from that final
interview still resonate today.

[Lennon] Seemed like the
underlying theme to the universe,

or to everything
that was worthwhile,

got down to this love,
love, love thing.

And it was the struggle to...

to love, be loved,
and express that.

You know, there's something
about love that's fantastic.

I want to be as
loving as possible.

[Ono] I still miss him, e-especially
now, because of... The world is,

um, not quite right and
everybody seems to be suffering.

And if he was here, it
would have been difficult...

different, I think.

[interviewer 2] When you
think of your dad now,

what are the most wonderful
memories that come up for you?

What is it that you really go,

"Yeah, that's the essence of my
relationship with my father?"

Footage of just me and my father, just
like... I'd-I'd always sit on his lap.

You know, just being together.

'Cause that was what it was
like. We'd always be together.

You know, I just knew he was there,
and I knew he was my father...

and I knew I loved him.

What do you think your dad's
biggest contribution was?

His music affected everybody,

almost everybody in
the entire world.

I mean... And it's amazing, the
impact that music can have on people.

And his contribution to you?

To me, he was my father.