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And now, a short introduction from
the producers' legal representative,
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Mr Abe Appenheimer.
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00:00:12,807 --> 00:00:15,367
Hello, and welcome to this documentary
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containing new and exclusive interviews
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with the five surviving members
of Monty Python.
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The producers wish to make it clear
that any opinions expressed herein
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are those of the individuals speaking
and hold no truth whatsoever.
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Pursuant, therefore, to clause 46 of the
Broadcasting, Video, Television Act, 1989,
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subsection 4, 3 and 2, clause...
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Do you want subtitles for any video?
-=[ ai.OpenSubtitles.com ]=-
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..subject to clause 4.123,
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no viewer or watcher
may copy, repeat, impersonate, mime,
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either contextually or noncontextually,
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any material whatsoever in any public place,
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such as a street, pub, club, hotel, oil rig,
Baptist church...
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Python
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The brand-new documentary of Python
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lt's a new documentary
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lt's about Monty Python
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Unlike other Monty Python documentaries
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This is brand-new
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lt's a new documentary
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lt's not complimentary
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But it's better than a hysterectomy
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lt's Monty
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Python
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Meanwhile, how glad and grateful is Britain
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that thousands have fought their way out
and come home.
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And are they glad to be back again?
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Well, they'll tell you
that after what they've been seeing,
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England looks all right.
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- You glad to be back, boys?
- Sure!
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England was in black-and-white
after the war,
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and until about 1959, l think,
we had rationing.
35
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l remember we didn't have enough.
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We had butter rations, you can have
a piece of butter a week,
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00:03:02,407 --> 00:03:05,080
and bread rationing and meat rationing.
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00:03:05,127 --> 00:03:09,086
London was completely composed
of holes and bomb sites,
39
00:03:09,127 --> 00:03:13,120
and it was a sort of
grey duffel-coat-wearing,
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very respectable, everybody
talked in received English...
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''Good evening, this is the BBC,
and here is the news.''
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On the radio, the news announcers
wore black tie to read the news.
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So it was that kind
of unnecessarily uptight place.
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00:03:28,567 --> 00:03:30,922
l think l had quite a happy childhood.
45
00:03:33,007 --> 00:03:36,158
My poor old dad gets quite a bad press,
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cos l've mentioned him being
a bit cantankerous.
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Apart from his slight cantankerousness,
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he was a fond father, he quite liked jokes,
49
00:03:47,287 --> 00:03:49,039
he liked practical jokes a lot.
50
00:03:49,087 --> 00:03:52,841
ln fact, l've still got a fake dog turd
that he bought me.
51
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l mean, how many people's fathers
would buy their sons a dog turd?
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''You've got into Oxford. Here's a turd.''
53
00:04:02,847 --> 00:04:07,557
My mother, she was terrific, my mum.
She was absolutely great.
54
00:04:07,607 --> 00:04:10,963
And she was more encouraging
what l wanted to do.
55
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My father was obsessed with money,
or rather, the lack of it,
56
00:04:15,407 --> 00:04:19,798
and worried that l might follow
my sister's progress into acting.
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He just didn't want that, he just said...
he felt that was the way to rack and ruin,
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whereas my mother, l think, understood
a little bit of my interest in performing.
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My relationship with my father was...
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lt was...always at one remove,
in a way, because...
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l think he must have seen me
when l was a few days old,
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but he was in the RAF, up in Scotland.
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Then he was shipped off to lndia,
and spent the war in lndia,
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so he never saw me again
until l was four and a half.
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And l can remember going down
to Colwyn Bay railway station
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and walking up the steps
with my mum and my brother
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and standing on the platform,
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and then my mother getting terribly anxious
that he wasn't there.
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Suddenly, as the crowds vanished,
there was a man in a forage cap
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and a kit bag, a big kit bag,
at the end of the platform.
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And that was my dad.
And so he kisses my mum and my brother,
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and then he kisses me,
and he's got a moustache!
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l'd never been kissed by anybody
with a moustache before.
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So l've always been...
l've always had horrors
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about being kissed
by men in moustaches ever since!
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Graham, as a policeman's son,
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had had a very good,
solid family background,
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but l think, because life was tough
when he was growing up,
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and for a country copper during the war,
it was a very busy time.
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There was not a lot of time for the children
while they were growing up.
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And l think Graham actually missed
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a really warm and supportive atmosphere.
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Minneapolis, Minnesota,
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Minnesota being the furthest north state
in America, probably the most middle.
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So we're in the middle and at the top.
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We lived in a little summer cottage
out in a place called Medicine Lake
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that my dad had put insulation in
so we could get through these winters.
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But it was some years before
we got an indoor toilet.
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So l think the memory of my childhood
is one that is really odd,
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because l can remember it, but l can't feel it,
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was going out in the middle of winter
for a dump
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in the biffy, as they were known.
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And l don't know how we did that,
there was no heating, nothing,
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you just sat there on a wooden plank
with a hole,
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and did your business,
then you came back in.
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lt was a decent world there,
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and l was part of that decent world,
with a decent family,
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and we would go to church on Sunday,
and we would go to youth camps.
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And, at least in school,
and particularly in high school,
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the emphasis was on science and maths,
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you know, we were engineering
for a new future in America.
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l was in the Boy Scouts. l did all the things
that you were supposed to do.
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My dad was born Reginald Francis Cheese,
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his dad was John Edwin Cheese.
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He stayed a Cheese until 1915,
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when he joined the army
and he changed the name to Cleese.
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l don't know why,
cos when l went to school,
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l was always called Old Cheese,
it made no difference at all.
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But anyway, he was the only Cleese.
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l went to the Weston-super-Mare post office
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and in the phone books,
there was no Cleese.
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lt's not a proper name of any kind.
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And as a result of that, when he married
my mother, there were two Cleeses,
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when l came along, there were three.
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l'm tempted to change it back to Cheese,
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cos l think it's a splendid name,
and my American friends call me Jack,
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l could be Jack Cheese,
which is a great name for a comedian.
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l think that l had, from what l can figure out,
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rather than from what l can remember,
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a very difficult early relationship
with my mother
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that was compensated for,
more than compensated for,
122
00:08:01,127 --> 00:08:06,485
by a very warm, very affectionate,
very loving relationship with my father.
123
00:08:06,527 --> 00:08:09,644
But with both of them, there was
a good comedic connection.
124
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My mother l could connect with
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because she had a very black
sense of humour, believe it or not.
126
00:08:15,847 --> 00:08:19,157
And l could make her laugh
with black humour.
127
00:08:19,207 --> 00:08:22,677
And Dad was much more witty.
128
00:08:22,727 --> 00:08:27,437
l remember watching a particularly inane
dance routine with him on television once,
129
00:08:27,487 --> 00:08:31,685
and he said, ''l don't think this
will ever replace entertainment, do you?''
130
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l remember thinking, it's a beautiful phrase.
131
00:08:37,527 --> 00:08:40,883
The interesting thing about the Pythons
is we didn't have TV
132
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until we were teenagers, we were the last
generation to grow up with radio.
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l was an avid listener to radio shows
134
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like Take lt From Here.
135
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Before that, Jewel and Warriss, Hancock,
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all sorts of radio shows,
137
00:08:58,127 --> 00:09:02,040
and then later, when l was about 13, 1 4,
the Goon Show.
138
00:09:02,087 --> 00:09:05,762
The Goons were very important as being,
not just their comedy,
139
00:09:05,807 --> 00:09:09,482
but the fact that they were the first people
to really use radio.
140
00:09:09,527 --> 00:09:13,202
The whole point of radio is that you can
conjure up anything you like.
141
00:09:13,247 --> 00:09:17,365
lt was that week that Nugent Dirt
was taken to court by his wife.
142
00:09:21,087 --> 00:09:23,806
Silence in court! Silence!
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00:09:24,567 --> 00:09:27,764
The court will now stand
for Judge Schnorrer.
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00:09:28,887 --> 00:09:32,482
And if you'll stand for him,
you'll stand for anything.
145
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The Goons can take you anywhere.
146
00:09:34,887 --> 00:09:38,721
So can any... All form of radio is in
the imagination and creates all that.
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l think that was significant for us.
148
00:09:40,727 --> 00:09:44,925
Here came a show which was
not like any of the other shows.
149
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lt didn't have the same kind of rules,
or any rules.
150
00:09:47,687 --> 00:09:51,123
lt didn't even like the medium
that was putting it out.
151
00:09:51,167 --> 00:09:52,964
lt didn't like the BBC. Wonderful!
152
00:09:53,007 --> 00:09:55,202
There was something that l could relate to.
153
00:09:55,247 --> 00:09:57,886
This is the BBC Home Service.
154
00:09:57,927 --> 00:09:59,804
Thank you.
155
00:09:59,847 --> 00:10:03,635
l was introduced to the Goons
when l was about 1 1 , 12 years old.
156
00:10:03,687 --> 00:10:09,842
And l just remember discovering this
strange, odd, weird and wonderful show
157
00:10:09,887 --> 00:10:15,757
that was so different from anything
you could see on a film, or on television.
158
00:10:15,807 --> 00:10:18,958
And l became almost obsessed with them.
159
00:10:19,007 --> 00:10:22,283
l used to listen to the show,
160
00:10:22,327 --> 00:10:25,922
and then, two nights later,
l would listen to the repeat,
161
00:10:25,967 --> 00:10:27,923
because l wanted to catch everything,
162
00:10:27,967 --> 00:10:31,004
and there was so much laughter,
you couldn't hear certain lines.
163
00:10:31,047 --> 00:10:35,438
l used to lie on the bed with the radio there
and a pillow on my ear,
164
00:10:35,487 --> 00:10:39,605
just to try and get the line
that l'd missed two days before.
165
00:10:39,647 --> 00:10:42,719
The Phantom Head Shaver of Brighton,
Part Three.
166
00:10:42,767 --> 00:10:44,359
By now, the position was serious.
167
00:10:44,407 --> 00:10:47,126
All told, 300 men had been balded
by the Phantom.
168
00:10:47,167 --> 00:10:50,045
l mean, listening to the Goon Show
on Sunday lunch time
169
00:10:50,087 --> 00:10:51,998
was a ritual in our family.
170
00:10:52,047 --> 00:10:55,278
Come out, Phantom Head Shaver,
you're surrounded! You hear?
171
00:10:55,327 --> 00:10:58,717
We're all heavily armed.
lf you don't come, we'll come to the door,
172
00:10:58,767 --> 00:11:01,122
and so help me, we'll knock!
173
00:11:01,727 --> 00:11:04,002
Yeah! That's telling him, yeah!
174
00:11:04,047 --> 00:11:07,596
lf you don't come out,
we'll come and we'll knock!
175
00:11:07,647 --> 00:11:08,966
- Shut up!
- Shut up!
176
00:11:09,007 --> 00:11:12,682
There was nothing like these people
just being very ridiculous and silly
177
00:11:12,727 --> 00:11:17,403
and strange voices,
and long pauses and, you know,
178
00:11:17,447 --> 00:11:21,360
playing around with this whole
sort of form of radio show
179
00:11:21,407 --> 00:11:24,479
in a way that felt genuinely
kind of subversive at the time.
180
00:11:24,527 --> 00:11:27,519
- Bluebottle?
- l heard you call, my Captain.
181
00:11:27,567 --> 00:11:30,365
l heard my little ragged Captain call me.
182
00:11:30,407 --> 00:11:33,558
Enter Bluebottle.
Pauses for audience applause.
183
00:11:33,607 --> 00:11:36,041
As usual, not a sausage.
184
00:11:36,087 --> 00:11:39,523
At the same time, my parents were listening
to mainstream stuff,
185
00:11:39,567 --> 00:11:43,003
like Much-Binding-in-the-Marsh,
and Take lt From Here,
186
00:11:43,047 --> 00:11:46,357
which were the sort of shows
which we all sat and listened to together,
187
00:11:46,407 --> 00:11:48,841
that was what bound the family together.
188
00:11:48,887 --> 00:11:52,243
So l'd be listening to those, whilst
at the same time, on whenever it was,
189
00:11:52,287 --> 00:11:57,077
Tuesday night or something, having my own
fix of this new show, the Goons.
190
00:12:01,767 --> 00:12:05,476
l don't know what my folks wanted me to be.
191
00:12:05,527 --> 00:12:10,237
l can remember one day some man l'd met
insisting on walking me home
192
00:12:10,287 --> 00:12:13,802
and telling my parents that l ought
to become a dentist.
193
00:12:13,847 --> 00:12:15,758
Well, thank God, l never did.
194
00:12:15,807 --> 00:12:17,320
l thought, ''What a terrible idea.''
195
00:12:17,367 --> 00:12:22,725
Dad was very keen that l should join
Grace, Derbyshire and Todd,
196
00:12:22,767 --> 00:12:27,682
a firm of chartered accountants
on Whiteladies Road,
197
00:12:27,727 --> 00:12:31,640
and l remember he said to me,
''My boy, if you join them,
198
00:12:31,687 --> 00:12:37,239
''by the time you're 21 , you will have
the initials ACA after your name,
199
00:12:37,287 --> 00:12:38,879
''and the world will be your oyster.''
200
00:12:38,927 --> 00:12:42,203
ln other words, he was, in a sense,
very petit bourgeois.
201
00:12:42,247 --> 00:12:46,843
My father wanted me to get a good job
and make a lot of money,
202
00:12:46,887 --> 00:12:49,037
so l wouldn't be dependent on him.
203
00:12:49,087 --> 00:12:51,920
l don't think he had any idea
of what he wanted me to do.
204
00:12:51,967 --> 00:12:54,481
He just had a lot of ideas of what
he didn't want me to do,
205
00:12:54,527 --> 00:12:59,396
which was mainly, sort of, acting and
performing, writing, all that sort of stuff.
206
00:12:59,447 --> 00:13:03,520
And he sent me away to public school,
Shrewsbury,
207
00:13:03,567 --> 00:13:07,560
which had a good reputation,
l think he felt, ''They'll sort him out there.''
208
00:13:07,607 --> 00:13:09,677
One of Michael's great talents,
209
00:13:09,727 --> 00:13:13,276
which was perfectly easily arrived at,
210
00:13:13,327 --> 00:13:17,081
was, sort of, taking off
the character of the masters.
211
00:13:17,127 --> 00:13:22,485
Michael had a natural way of drawing
their character out,
212
00:13:22,527 --> 00:13:24,006
their little mannerisms.
213
00:13:24,047 --> 00:13:27,517
From quite early on,
l could entertain people, in a small way.
214
00:13:27,567 --> 00:13:32,595
And l remember, in 1953,
when it was the time of the Coronation,
215
00:13:32,647 --> 00:13:36,765
l would do an improvised little show
at milk break in the morning,
216
00:13:36,807 --> 00:13:40,083
at 1 1 o'clock, for anyone that wanted
to come, in this tiny room,
217
00:13:40,127 --> 00:13:44,996
and l'd play all the different characters,
and it was all very silly and low-level,
218
00:13:45,047 --> 00:13:48,926
but it was things like, you know,
the Duke of Edinburgh being caught short,
219
00:13:48,967 --> 00:13:51,527
during the actual Coronation,
looking round
220
00:13:51,567 --> 00:13:54,400
and having to fish out a toilet roll.
221
00:13:54,447 --> 00:13:56,165
Oh, it was funny when l was ten!
222
00:13:56,927 --> 00:14:00,044
Growing up in Wolverhampton,
that's not something anybody did -
223
00:14:00,087 --> 00:14:02,726
trying to escape is what you did.
224
00:14:02,767 --> 00:14:04,644
lt was a miserable fucking place,
225
00:14:04,687 --> 00:14:08,760
but l was abandoned there
about the age of seven, in a playground,
226
00:14:08,807 --> 00:14:10,957
and my mum left, thinking it would be nicer
227
00:14:11,007 --> 00:14:14,124
if she just slipped away,
rather than say goodbye,
228
00:14:14,167 --> 00:14:16,362
so l hadn't got it that l was going to stay,
229
00:14:16,407 --> 00:14:19,240
l knew we'd taken the suitcase,
it had all my names on it,
230
00:14:19,287 --> 00:14:21,403
on the underwear and six pairs of socks,
231
00:14:21,447 --> 00:14:23,324
but l hadn't got the concept,
232
00:14:23,367 --> 00:14:25,801
''Wait, wait, no, l'm ready to leave now.''
233
00:14:25,847 --> 00:14:28,202
Too late. So that was a bummer.
234
00:14:28,247 --> 00:14:31,000
The Royal Wolverhampton School
is based on the fact
235
00:14:31,047 --> 00:14:34,119
that you must have lost
one or other of your parents.
236
00:14:34,167 --> 00:14:38,558
ln Eric's case, his father,
who was in the RAF and was air crew,
237
00:14:38,607 --> 00:14:40,802
went all through the war,
and then, l think,
238
00:14:40,847 --> 00:14:43,236
within 12 months of taking a civilian job,
239
00:14:43,287 --> 00:14:46,643
died in a road crash
on the way home from work.
240
00:14:46,687 --> 00:14:49,804
There's hundreds of memories,
mainly nightmares.
241
00:14:49,847 --> 00:14:53,760
l was there from seven.
l didn't escape till l was 19.
242
00:14:53,807 --> 00:14:56,275
You escape into, you know, various things.
243
00:14:56,327 --> 00:15:00,366
l was in a little skiffle group.
First of all, l played harmonica.
244
00:15:00,407 --> 00:15:04,036
We identified with the black slave
movement in America,
245
00:15:04,087 --> 00:15:07,204
because we felt like we were oppressed.
246
00:15:07,247 --> 00:15:10,125
And l was once in a drama.
247
00:15:11,047 --> 00:15:14,437
l played Second Fieldmouse
in Toad Of Toad Hall.
248
00:15:15,887 --> 00:15:19,766
Which... l was offered the part
of First Fieldmouse,
249
00:15:19,807 --> 00:15:22,605
but l realised that Second Fieldmouse
had more words,
250
00:15:22,647 --> 00:15:24,444
so l held out for that part.
251
00:15:24,487 --> 00:15:27,797
His headmaster at that time
was Owen Dickinson.
252
00:15:27,847 --> 00:15:31,886
And Owen always said,
''ldle by name, idle by nature.''
253
00:15:31,927 --> 00:15:34,441
This idle bastard left that school
254
00:15:34,487 --> 00:15:39,845
with ten O levels,
three A levels and two S levels, so...
255
00:15:39,887 --> 00:15:42,355
and going to Cambridge on a scholarship,
256
00:15:42,407 --> 00:15:44,796
so not quite so fuckin' idle!
257
00:15:47,447 --> 00:15:50,837
High school, you know,
l did all the right things there.
258
00:15:50,887 --> 00:15:53,481
l didn't actually know
l was doing the right things.
259
00:15:53,527 --> 00:15:57,281
Most things come to me as surprises,
because l ended up...
260
00:15:57,327 --> 00:16:01,002
by the end of it, l was student
body president, valedictorian,
261
00:16:01,047 --> 00:16:03,766
head cheerleader, it was crazy,
l don't know how it happened,
262
00:16:03,807 --> 00:16:06,560
because l never applied myself
for any of these things,
263
00:16:06,607 --> 00:16:08,518
they just kind of happened around me.
264
00:16:08,567 --> 00:16:11,798
There was a thing in the '50s,
you got inundated
265
00:16:11,847 --> 00:16:14,281
with all this right-wing material.
266
00:16:14,327 --> 00:16:19,276
But anti-communism seemed to go
hand-in-hand with racial discrimination,
267
00:16:19,327 --> 00:16:22,399
so you'd get all these pictures
of black guys being lynched,
268
00:16:22,447 --> 00:16:25,086
because they'd been seen
talking to a white girl.
269
00:16:25,127 --> 00:16:27,482
This was the right thing, in America.
270
00:16:27,527 --> 00:16:30,837
You had the Ku Klux Klan
and the anti-communists
271
00:16:30,887 --> 00:16:34,436
inundating every
student body leader at the time.
272
00:16:34,487 --> 00:16:38,765
l was just shocked by it,
l thought it was horrifying, awful stuff.
273
00:16:38,807 --> 00:16:43,164
On one hand, you had drag racing,
and cool things like in American Graffiti,
274
00:16:43,207 --> 00:16:46,358
on the other hand, you had
this undercurrent of the Klan
275
00:16:46,407 --> 00:16:48,841
and the right-wingers.
276
00:16:58,167 --> 00:17:00,203
We did feel in the early '60s
277
00:17:00,247 --> 00:17:04,638
that life was changing
and that we'd never go back.
278
00:17:05,527 --> 00:17:08,644
You felt that religion was
becoming a bit of a dodo
279
00:17:09,727 --> 00:17:13,276
and that people were questioning
religious authority
280
00:17:13,327 --> 00:17:16,956
as well as class authority,
as well as any kind of authority.
281
00:17:17,007 --> 00:17:21,398
The most significant moment
in my life was when, 1962,
282
00:17:21,447 --> 00:17:24,883
l was down in London
and we went to see Beyond The Fringe,
283
00:17:24,927 --> 00:17:27,839
and we couldn't get tickets,
only standing tickets,
284
00:17:27,887 --> 00:17:31,402
which l was so grateful for,
cos l just rolled around the wall,
285
00:17:31,447 --> 00:17:33,403
l wouldn't have stayed in a seat.
286
00:17:33,447 --> 00:17:35,039
They made me laugh so hard,
287
00:17:35,087 --> 00:17:38,523
Peter Cook, Alan Bennett,
Jonathan Miller and Dudley Moore.
288
00:17:38,567 --> 00:17:41,525
l didn't realise you could be that funny.
289
00:17:41,567 --> 00:17:45,446
lsn't that fantastic?
Children under ten, twelve-and-six.
290
00:17:54,247 --> 00:17:56,158
That's very cheap, you know?
291
00:17:56,207 --> 00:18:00,359
l agree. lt's very cheap.
l think they're probably imported.
292
00:18:01,527 --> 00:18:04,121
- Probably frozen, l should think.
- Or foreign.
293
00:18:04,167 --> 00:18:08,604
Foreign or frozen. You wouldn't get
local children at that price.
294
00:18:08,647 --> 00:18:11,081
l wonder how they prepare them.
295
00:18:11,127 --> 00:18:15,598
l shouldn't think they do.
l should think they spring it on them.
296
00:18:16,607 --> 00:18:21,761
The influence of Peter could hardly,
hardly be exaggerated,
297
00:18:21,807 --> 00:18:27,723
cos this was a guy who'd had, l think,
two separate West End revues running,
298
00:18:27,767 --> 00:18:30,804
totally his material,
while he was still at Cambridge.
299
00:18:30,847 --> 00:18:34,476
l mean, they were so brilliant,
and they attacked everything
300
00:18:34,527 --> 00:18:37,280
that l'd just spent 19 years
being oppressed by.
301
00:18:37,327 --> 00:18:41,286
Royalty, police, authorities, teachers,
302
00:18:41,327 --> 00:18:46,924
every single authority figure was
completely pilloried and destroyed.
303
00:18:46,967 --> 00:18:48,923
And that just... My life just changed.
304
00:18:48,967 --> 00:18:52,164
Peter Cook playing Harold Macmillan
on the stage.
305
00:18:52,207 --> 00:18:56,120
Macmillan came to the show one night,
and Peter goes right off the script
306
00:18:56,167 --> 00:18:58,840
and starts talking, as Macmillan,
to Macmillan.
307
00:18:58,887 --> 00:19:00,798
People said, ''He's playing
the Prime Minister!''
308
00:19:00,847 --> 00:19:03,156
lt sounds quaint now,
because everybody does.
309
00:19:03,207 --> 00:19:05,641
The government had been in power
13 years,
310
00:19:05,687 --> 00:19:08,247
and the slogan was,
''You've never had it so good.''
311
00:19:08,287 --> 00:19:11,757
And so when Peter Cook
did Harold Macmillan on stage,
312
00:19:11,807 --> 00:19:15,959
he completely made them a figure of fun
and redundant,
313
00:19:16,007 --> 00:19:20,319
and not up-to-date, and it was no longer
possible to take them seriously.
314
00:19:20,367 --> 00:19:24,440
And l think that satire, occasionally,
can do things like that.
315
00:19:24,487 --> 00:19:29,117
We shall receive four minutes' warning
of any impending nuclear attack.
316
00:19:29,167 --> 00:19:31,078
Some people said,
''My goodness me,
317
00:19:31,127 --> 00:19:33,436
''four minutes, that's not a very long time.''
318
00:19:33,487 --> 00:19:37,366
l would remind those doubters that
some people in this great country of ours
319
00:19:37,407 --> 00:19:39,796
can run a mile in four minutes.
320
00:19:40,767 --> 00:19:44,077
And the government was thrown out
and then Harold Wilson came,
321
00:19:44,127 --> 00:19:46,960
smoking his pipe,
and there were satire shows on telly,
322
00:19:47,007 --> 00:19:53,640
and the whole loosening of...
the way of being of England was changed.
323
00:19:53,687 --> 00:19:57,726
We went from this almost
1950s deferential society
324
00:19:57,767 --> 00:20:01,521
to a society where, suddenly,
people were making jokes about the Queen
325
00:20:01,567 --> 00:20:03,876
and the Prime Minister
and this kind of thing,
326
00:20:03,927 --> 00:20:07,363
it was a completely different atmosphere,
an enormous release of energy.
327
00:20:08,167 --> 00:20:11,204
College was a wonderful time,
it was Occidental College,
328
00:20:11,247 --> 00:20:12,805
very classy little college.
329
00:20:12,847 --> 00:20:16,556
Kids tended to be rich there,
or smart, like l was.
330
00:20:16,607 --> 00:20:19,883
l was there on a scholarship,
a Presbyterian scholarship,
331
00:20:19,927 --> 00:20:21,440
l went on a church scholarship
332
00:20:21,487 --> 00:20:24,160
because at one point,
l was going to be a missionary,
333
00:20:24,207 --> 00:20:25,481
and then l got smart.
334
00:20:25,527 --> 00:20:29,486
At that time, in America,
there was a magazine called Help!
335
00:20:29,527 --> 00:20:32,439
Harvey Kurtzman, who was the guy
that began Mad comics,
336
00:20:32,487 --> 00:20:36,560
was the idol of all of us, of my generation,
the cartoonists, anyway.
337
00:20:36,607 --> 00:20:41,158
l was doing this magazine and
l started emulating Help! with Fang.
338
00:20:41,207 --> 00:20:44,165
He wanted to take over the magazine
and he had all these plans,
339
00:20:44,207 --> 00:20:46,437
it was going to be four issues
instead of two
340
00:20:46,487 --> 00:20:51,003
and it was going to be this, that...
l don't know if he had a budget.
341
00:20:51,047 --> 00:20:53,800
Fang magazine lost money all the time,
342
00:20:53,847 --> 00:20:57,886
and Terry said,
''We can make a change on that.''
343
00:20:57,927 --> 00:21:00,487
This is the very first edition.
344
00:21:00,527 --> 00:21:03,803
That was one of his last-minute cartoons.
345
00:21:03,847 --> 00:21:07,203
There wasn't time for him
to do it in pen and ink, so this is pencil,
346
00:21:07,247 --> 00:21:10,842
so he was disappointed
that it didn't come out better than it did.
347
00:21:10,887 --> 00:21:13,355
Before Terry took it over,
it was pretty boring.
348
00:21:13,407 --> 00:21:17,241
lt was poetry, and a few cartoons,
349
00:21:17,287 --> 00:21:20,723
and essays and things like that.
350
00:21:20,767 --> 00:21:24,646
Terry wanted to transform it
into something exciting
351
00:21:24,687 --> 00:21:27,042
and really do something with it.
352
00:21:27,087 --> 00:21:29,885
One thing we did,
which l suppose is the beginning
353
00:21:29,927 --> 00:21:33,044
of what eventually became
either animation or film for me,
354
00:21:33,087 --> 00:21:38,480
was we would do fumetti, which basically
is ltalian for little puffs of smoke.
355
00:21:38,527 --> 00:21:42,805
And Help! magazine was doing these
and we started doing them in our magazine.
356
00:21:42,847 --> 00:21:46,442
We'd go out and you'd find locations,
you would cast the parts,
357
00:21:46,487 --> 00:21:49,923
you'd get costumes and you'd go
and shoot these little photographs
358
00:21:49,967 --> 00:21:52,720
that tell a story, and then put bubbles.
359
00:21:52,767 --> 00:21:57,477
We just generally used the magazine
to cause mayhem wherever possible,
360
00:21:57,527 --> 00:22:01,520
because one thing about the university was
it was quite a conservative place.
361
00:22:01,567 --> 00:22:05,116
So our job was to dismantle all of that
as quickly as possible.
362
00:22:05,647 --> 00:22:10,004
On graduation, the dean,
when handing me my diploma,
363
00:22:10,047 --> 00:22:13,437
said, ''Gilliam, you deserve
a good spanking.''
364
00:22:13,487 --> 00:22:15,717
l don't know what he really meant, really.
365
00:22:17,567 --> 00:22:21,685
l first met Graham
when we came up as freshers
366
00:22:21,727 --> 00:22:25,686
to Emmanuel College in 1959.
367
00:22:25,727 --> 00:22:28,116
Graham was doing
an undergraduate course
368
00:22:28,167 --> 00:22:32,126
in anatomy, physiology,
biochemistry and pathology,
369
00:22:32,167 --> 00:22:37,241
prior to going to do three clinical years
in a London medical college.
370
00:22:37,287 --> 00:22:40,757
l think, because it seemed the simplest
course for me at the time.
371
00:22:42,327 --> 00:22:45,637
Writing essays and doing
anything artistic in school
372
00:22:45,687 --> 00:22:47,837
for me, called for a little more effort.
373
00:22:47,887 --> 00:22:51,960
Whereas anything to do with science
meant l had to learn things,
374
00:22:52,007 --> 00:22:54,362
and l was reasonably good
at learning things.
375
00:22:54,407 --> 00:22:57,717
l didn't have to create anything.
So it seemed simpler to do that.
376
00:22:57,767 --> 00:22:59,439
l was a little afraid of creating.
377
00:22:59,487 --> 00:23:02,081
l think it's a good training ground
for anything.
378
00:23:02,127 --> 00:23:06,359
You meet all sorts of people,
naturally, in very strange predicaments.
379
00:23:06,407 --> 00:23:09,683
And you do strange things to them
sometimes.
380
00:23:09,727 --> 00:23:12,799
He was also eccentric and rather zany,
381
00:23:12,847 --> 00:23:14,485
and he liked to entertain.
382
00:23:14,527 --> 00:23:17,963
We always had the feeling that he liked
to entertain almost a bit...
383
00:23:18,007 --> 00:23:20,646
He showed off, almost, a little bit.
384
00:23:20,687 --> 00:23:23,520
But he was very amusing,
he would lie down in the road,
385
00:23:23,567 --> 00:23:29,119
smoking his pipe, and refuse to get up
when the cars couldn't get by.
386
00:23:29,167 --> 00:23:30,919
Things like that.
387
00:23:32,567 --> 00:23:35,843
l first met John in 1961 .
388
00:23:35,887 --> 00:23:38,845
He'd come up as a freshman
in 1960 from Clifton.
389
00:23:38,887 --> 00:23:42,721
l supervised him in 1962, 1963.
390
00:23:42,767 --> 00:23:45,839
Oh, John was an admirable,
excellent lawyer.
391
00:23:45,887 --> 00:23:48,799
And l'm bound to say it's
a loss to the legal profession
392
00:23:48,847 --> 00:23:51,042
that he didn't qualify as a lawyer.
393
00:23:51,087 --> 00:23:54,477
l can just see him at the bar,
which he never joined,
394
00:23:54,527 --> 00:23:58,645
and then one could equally see him
being elevated to judicial office,
395
00:23:58,687 --> 00:24:00,359
which he never aspired to.
396
00:24:00,407 --> 00:24:03,205
l didn't really enjoy Oxford that much.
397
00:24:03,247 --> 00:24:05,203
l found it a bit daunting, l think.
398
00:24:05,247 --> 00:24:07,522
l sort of liked saying hello to people.
399
00:24:07,567 --> 00:24:10,400
You'd say hello to somebody
and they'd just brush past.
400
00:24:10,447 --> 00:24:14,963
lt was also daunting cos you thought,
''Oxford! Everybody's going to be so bright.
401
00:24:15,007 --> 00:24:17,475
''They're going to be
so much cleverer than me.''
402
00:24:17,527 --> 00:24:20,997
And then you gradually
realise it's all an illusion,
403
00:24:21,047 --> 00:24:23,117
nobody's cleverer
than anybody else.
404
00:24:23,167 --> 00:24:25,397
When Michael got up to Oxford
405
00:24:25,447 --> 00:24:29,122
l think he was very certain
that he wanted to act
406
00:24:29,167 --> 00:24:31,044
and wanted to do revue.
407
00:24:31,087 --> 00:24:36,400
And he teamed up with another
Brasenose chap called Robert Hewison
408
00:24:36,447 --> 00:24:39,359
and they made a very good early team.
409
00:24:39,407 --> 00:24:43,559
l first met Michael Palin
in the autumn of 1962
410
00:24:43,607 --> 00:24:46,724
when l went up to Brasenose College,
Oxford.
411
00:24:46,767 --> 00:24:51,966
And it just so happened that Michael Palin
was at the same college,
412
00:24:52,007 --> 00:24:55,044
and he was reading the same subject,
which was history.
413
00:24:55,087 --> 00:24:59,603
l was really bluffing my way
through university,
414
00:24:59,647 --> 00:25:02,559
telling my parents l was studying,
and l was studying,
415
00:25:02,607 --> 00:25:04,359
but l used to study in the evening,
416
00:25:04,407 --> 00:25:07,797
and during the day, l was...we were writing,
417
00:25:07,847 --> 00:25:09,678
we were doing cabaret shows,
418
00:25:09,727 --> 00:25:12,480
putting together
30 minutes' worth of material.
419
00:25:12,527 --> 00:25:15,280
Thanks to Robert.
l wouldn't have done this myself.
420
00:25:15,327 --> 00:25:17,283
l didn't know what cabaret was, really.
421
00:25:17,327 --> 00:25:20,683
l thought it was something rather naughty,
involving ladies...
422
00:25:20,727 --> 00:25:23,161
and suspenders and stockings and all that.
423
00:25:23,207 --> 00:25:26,119
But he said, ''No, cabaret,
it's just performing.
424
00:25:26,167 --> 00:25:30,445
''lf we can put together half an hour's
worth of jokes, we can make some money.''
425
00:25:30,487 --> 00:25:33,843
Robert drew me more
into this theatrical world.
426
00:25:33,887 --> 00:25:37,402
And Terry was in a different college,
but he was doing theatre.
427
00:25:37,447 --> 00:25:40,564
And l remember this dark, intense figure
428
00:25:40,607 --> 00:25:42,438
with a cigarette, then, l think,
429
00:25:42,487 --> 00:25:45,797
and a very old coat
which he wore all the time.
430
00:25:45,847 --> 00:25:50,967
Terry, in those days,
wore this brown lumpy overcoat,
431
00:25:51,007 --> 00:25:58,595
and rode a Vespa, you know, kind of
Lambretta type little motorcycle thing.
432
00:25:58,647 --> 00:26:00,842
- Terry was very cool at the time.
- Really?
433
00:26:00,887 --> 00:26:07,565
Yeah, he was very cool. He had that sort of
dark, kind of Surrey-Welsh look
434
00:26:08,567 --> 00:26:11,923
of someone who clearly was
not sure where he fitted in.
435
00:26:11,967 --> 00:26:13,446
lt was kind of mysterious.
436
00:26:13,487 --> 00:26:17,560
And it took me quite a long time
to realise that actually,
437
00:26:17,607 --> 00:26:20,485
A, he was a very good actor,
very talented actor,
438
00:26:20,527 --> 00:26:24,042
and B, he was actually
a very, very funny man.
439
00:26:24,087 --> 00:26:27,238
Robert was very pushy
at getting us to do anything.
440
00:26:27,287 --> 00:26:28,879
- Yeah.
- lt was great.
441
00:26:28,927 --> 00:26:31,122
Without him pushing along,
442
00:26:31,167 --> 00:26:33,965
l don't think
l'd probably be doing what l'm doing now.
443
00:26:34,007 --> 00:26:38,159
l suppose, from then on,
we were sort of aware
444
00:26:38,207 --> 00:26:42,758
that all three of us liked
writing and performing,
445
00:26:42,807 --> 00:26:45,640
but particularly writing
as well as the performing.
446
00:26:45,687 --> 00:26:49,043
And l think that some of the first work
l did with Terry
447
00:26:49,087 --> 00:26:52,159
was not acting with him
so much as writing with him.
448
00:26:52,207 --> 00:26:57,076
There's a difference between Oxford
and Cambridge in creating comedy.
449
00:26:57,127 --> 00:27:00,676
And that is that Cambridge, typically,
because it's, l think,
450
00:27:00,727 --> 00:27:03,287
a slightly more scientific university,
451
00:27:03,327 --> 00:27:07,400
had a pretty scientific way
of producing comedians,
452
00:27:07,447 --> 00:27:12,680
this thing called the Footlights Club
which goes back to 1882.
453
00:27:12,727 --> 00:27:17,562
Well, it was an exclusive little club,
really, at the time.
454
00:27:17,607 --> 00:27:21,202
lt only had about 25 student,
or undergraduate members,
455
00:27:21,247 --> 00:27:23,477
as they're called in Cambridge.
456
00:27:23,527 --> 00:27:28,965
And you had to be asked
by a member of the club,
457
00:27:29,007 --> 00:27:31,919
a current member, to do an audition.
458
00:27:31,967 --> 00:27:37,485
And then you did an audition
at what they called a smoking concert.
459
00:27:38,407 --> 00:27:41,877
And on the basis of that,
if you got enough laughs,
460
00:27:41,927 --> 00:27:43,406
you were asked to join.
461
00:27:43,447 --> 00:27:46,007
l auditioned for Bill Oddie
and Tim Brooke-Taylor.
462
00:27:46,047 --> 00:27:49,483
And they had the good wit
and grace and talent to discover me,
463
00:27:49,527 --> 00:27:53,122
and put me in a Pembroke smoking concert.
464
00:27:53,167 --> 00:27:56,682
And the first piece of material l did
was written by John Cleese.
465
00:27:56,727 --> 00:28:00,242
And Cleese couldn't be in the show,
cos he was in Fitzwilliam,
466
00:28:00,287 --> 00:28:03,962
or one of those little gay universities,
l don't know what they're called.
467
00:28:04,007 --> 00:28:06,885
So he couldn't be in it,
so the first time l met him,
468
00:28:06,927 --> 00:28:09,760
l'd just performed a piece of his material,
469
00:28:09,807 --> 00:28:12,480
which was a piece called BBC BC,
470
00:28:12,527 --> 00:28:16,440
it was the BBC giving the news,
the Old Testament news,
471
00:28:16,487 --> 00:28:17,840
and l did the weather.
472
00:28:17,887 --> 00:28:21,038
There'll be a plague of locusts
coming in from the northeast,
473
00:28:21,087 --> 00:28:24,716
followed by frogs
and death of all the first-born.
474
00:28:24,767 --> 00:28:26,041
Sorry about that, Egypt.
475
00:28:26,087 --> 00:28:29,124
The great thing about the Footlights
was that we had a club room.
476
00:28:29,167 --> 00:28:32,045
The Oxford guys didn't.
lf they wanted to put a show on,
477
00:28:32,087 --> 00:28:35,966
they had to hire a hall and hire a stage
478
00:28:36,007 --> 00:28:38,077
and make curtains work, and find lights.
479
00:28:38,127 --> 00:28:39,116
We had all that.
480
00:28:39,167 --> 00:28:41,317
We had our own bar. lt was fantastic.
481
00:28:41,367 --> 00:28:45,042
When everybody else had to go to bed
cos the pubs were closing at 10:30,
482
00:28:45,087 --> 00:28:46,645
we went down the Footlights.
483
00:28:46,687 --> 00:28:49,201
''What'll you have, sir?''
Two or three in the morning,
484
00:28:49,247 --> 00:28:53,877
we could drink as long as we wanted to,
there was lunches catered for.
485
00:28:53,927 --> 00:28:56,487
You could live entirely
through the Footlights.
486
00:28:56,527 --> 00:29:00,725
Producing Oxford comedians
was a much more accidental,
487
00:29:00,767 --> 00:29:03,964
casual, organic way of doing things.
488
00:29:04,007 --> 00:29:06,646
There was a kind of loose organisation,
489
00:29:07,607 --> 00:29:13,204
not nearly as organised as the Footlights,
but basically...for the same end,
490
00:29:13,247 --> 00:29:17,160
which was to produce a revue
for the Edinburgh Festival.
491
00:29:17,207 --> 00:29:20,722
l'd met Eric ldle in Edinburgh,
when he was doing...
492
00:29:20,767 --> 00:29:23,486
l think they did a revue
called My Girl Herbert,
493
00:29:23,527 --> 00:29:26,166
and l knew that John Cleese was around,
494
00:29:26,207 --> 00:29:29,597
because l'd written a monologue
which l did in revue in 1964,
495
00:29:29,647 --> 00:29:34,277
which was...turned out to be almost identical
to something that John had written.
496
00:29:34,327 --> 00:29:35,999
And we'd never collaborated.
497
00:29:36,047 --> 00:29:39,596
Graham and l met auditioning
498
00:29:39,647 --> 00:29:44,846
for the Footlights revue
that would have been 1961 .
499
00:29:44,887 --> 00:29:49,517
And we went out afterwards together
and sat down and had a coffee.
500
00:29:49,567 --> 00:29:55,085
And the extraordinary thing is,
l thought, ''l don't like this guy.''
501
00:29:56,527 --> 00:30:00,486
And then shortly after, we started
writing together on a regular basis.
502
00:30:00,527 --> 00:30:04,202
l must have completely forgotten
this intuition that l didn't like him.
503
00:30:04,247 --> 00:30:05,282
lsn't that strange?
504
00:30:05,327 --> 00:30:07,602
The first time l ever saw John and Graham
505
00:30:07,647 --> 00:30:11,162
was actually in their revue
at Wyndham's Theatre.
506
00:30:11,207 --> 00:30:13,118
l went along to a matinee.
507
00:30:13,167 --> 00:30:15,806
Graham didn't seem like a performer at all.
508
00:30:15,847 --> 00:30:18,998
lt was like he'd wandered on,
and was just sort of on stage
509
00:30:19,047 --> 00:30:21,242
and was wondering why he was there.
510
00:30:21,287 --> 00:30:23,926
''Well, l suppose l must be acting,
l suppose.''
511
00:30:23,967 --> 00:30:25,878
And then he'd wander off again.
512
00:30:25,927 --> 00:30:28,202
We went to see our rivals,
the Oxford Revue,
513
00:30:28,247 --> 00:30:30,238
and Terry Jones was in that.
514
00:30:30,287 --> 00:30:33,962
And that was nice, and then
we met them and hooked up,
515
00:30:34,007 --> 00:30:36,237
and, you know, the Oxford-Cambridge...
516
00:30:36,287 --> 00:30:39,836
And a year later, l met Michael Palin,
517
00:30:39,887 --> 00:30:42,526
also in Edinburgh, in Cambridge '64.
518
00:30:42,567 --> 00:30:46,196
And he was really something
to watch on stage,
519
00:30:46,247 --> 00:30:49,398
and clearly really special.
520
00:30:49,447 --> 00:30:51,085
Was it love at first sight?
521
00:30:51,127 --> 00:30:54,324
Or did we just fancy each other secretly,
and across a crowded room,
522
00:30:54,367 --> 00:30:57,279
wait for another 1 4 or 1 7 years to pass?
523
00:30:57,327 --> 00:30:59,795
lt... You know...
524
00:30:59,847 --> 00:31:04,796
lt was... There's a recognition when
you see somebody doing something good.
525
00:31:04,847 --> 00:31:08,601
Watching Terry Jones on stage,
it was clear that he was good.
526
00:31:08,647 --> 00:31:11,002
And it was clear he was good in the revue,
527
00:31:11,047 --> 00:31:13,083
and it was clear Michael was good.
528
00:31:13,127 --> 00:31:16,119
Cleese, of course, was outstanding.
529
00:31:16,167 --> 00:31:19,443
l mean, to see Cleese on stage in 1963,
530
00:31:19,487 --> 00:31:21,284
everybody else was being funny.
531
00:31:21,327 --> 00:31:24,842
Cleese was being serious,
and that was so funny.
532
00:31:24,887 --> 00:31:28,243
l mean, he was the only one
who never broke character,
533
00:31:28,287 --> 00:31:30,596
never indicated to you he was being funny,
534
00:31:31,167 --> 00:31:34,955
and he was head and shoulders,
and that's not just height, above the rest.
535
00:31:35,007 --> 00:31:39,125
lt was when we were in Edinburgh,
doing that show,
536
00:31:39,167 --> 00:31:43,240
in the hall that we'd hired from
the Parks and Burials Department
537
00:31:43,287 --> 00:31:45,960
of Edinburgh Council,
that l suddenly realised,
538
00:31:46,007 --> 00:31:51,161
''This is something l would really quite like
to do, after l leave university,
539
00:31:51,207 --> 00:31:54,517
''there's a slim, slim possibility
l might do this as a career.
540
00:31:54,567 --> 00:31:57,525
''l'm making people laugh,
we've got full houses every night,
541
00:31:57,567 --> 00:31:59,842
''we've written the stuff,
we've performed it.''
542
00:31:59,887 --> 00:32:02,845
But the problem was my parents,
my father particularly,
543
00:32:02,887 --> 00:32:06,846
l couldn't go back and say, ''l've decided
to go on the stage and entertain.''
544
00:32:06,887 --> 00:32:08,798
He would have just had a fit.
545
00:32:08,847 --> 00:32:12,203
Well, when l left Cambridge in '63
and was going to be a solicitor,
546
00:32:12,247 --> 00:32:14,715
with Freshfields,
solicitors to the Bank of England,
547
00:32:14,767 --> 00:32:18,555
l told them that l was going into
show business...
548
00:32:18,607 --> 00:32:21,326
l didn't say that,
l said, ''l'm joining the BBC.''
549
00:32:21,367 --> 00:32:26,646
And that was OK, because the BBC
was the same as the Civil Service.
550
00:32:26,687 --> 00:32:31,920
lt was respectable, you got a pension,
551
00:32:31,967 --> 00:32:36,199
you had financial security, and that was fine.
552
00:32:36,247 --> 00:32:40,320
Terry actually had a salaried job
at the Beeb, didn't you? ln '66?
553
00:32:40,367 --> 00:32:43,803
- Yeah. Yeah. l don't know...
- Script editor?
554
00:32:43,847 --> 00:32:48,079
l don't know what l was doing.
lt's one of those mysteries in life.
555
00:32:48,127 --> 00:32:52,166
l'd just accepted a job,
l'd been down for about a year.
556
00:32:52,207 --> 00:32:54,641
Suddenly, Frank Muir's office rang up.
557
00:32:54,687 --> 00:32:57,759
So l went along to Frank Muir's office
in the BBC,
558
00:32:57,807 --> 00:33:01,959
and he said, ''We'll give you a job,
for �20 a week,''
559
00:33:02,007 --> 00:33:04,521
which was a huge amount of money,
it seemed like.
560
00:33:04,567 --> 00:33:07,684
And so l had this job,
but l didn't know what it was.
561
00:33:07,727 --> 00:33:11,436
He said, ''Well, you can just have
a look around, see what's happening.''
562
00:33:11,487 --> 00:33:14,047
And l had two tables, two typewriters,
563
00:33:14,087 --> 00:33:17,159
four telephones, and no idea
what l was meant to be doing.
564
00:33:17,207 --> 00:33:19,243
- So you were doing that.
- Then you...
565
00:33:19,287 --> 00:33:21,164
l was doing a pop show.
566
00:33:21,207 --> 00:33:24,517
l was hosting a pop show on TWW,
567
00:33:24,567 --> 00:33:26,603
in Bristol, actually, where we're going.
568
00:33:31,327 --> 00:33:36,162
l have to thank that programme,
now, for keeping me going,
569
00:33:36,207 --> 00:33:41,839
and for me, being able to tell my parents,
my father particularly,
570
00:33:41,887 --> 00:33:44,117
that l was working in Bristol.
571
00:33:44,167 --> 00:33:46,203
''Oh, who's that for?''
''Television.''
572
00:33:46,247 --> 00:33:48,078
''Ah, BBC. Jolly good.''
573
00:33:48,127 --> 00:33:49,719
''Well, no, not the BBC.
574
00:33:49,767 --> 00:33:53,601
''lt's one of the many
local independent companies.''
575
00:33:53,647 --> 00:33:57,356
lf he'd actually seen what was going on,
he might have been a bit upset.
576
00:33:57,407 --> 00:34:00,365
But it gave me the chance,
the cover, as it were,
577
00:34:00,407 --> 00:34:03,126
to develop a lot of other interests and ideas.
578
00:34:03,167 --> 00:34:05,158
So l was able, during that time,
579
00:34:05,207 --> 00:34:07,926
thanks to the money
from this one show called Now,
580
00:34:07,967 --> 00:34:12,961
to start writing with Terry Jones at the BBC.
581
00:34:13,847 --> 00:34:17,283
Graham telephoned me one evening,
582
00:34:17,327 --> 00:34:19,795
and said he wanted a chat.
583
00:34:19,847 --> 00:34:22,919
The reason he wanted
to see me was because
584
00:34:22,967 --> 00:34:28,166
he had qualified in medicine,
but he had to make a choice.
585
00:34:28,207 --> 00:34:31,165
The choice was whether or not
to do a houseman's year,
586
00:34:31,207 --> 00:34:35,485
an intern year in hospital, and become
registered with the General Medical Council,
587
00:34:35,527 --> 00:34:40,885
or whether Graham would go to lbiza
and write sketches with John Cleese.
588
00:34:40,927 --> 00:34:42,918
He chose to go to lbiza,
589
00:34:42,967 --> 00:34:45,879
and l'm sure, for him,
that was the right choice.
590
00:34:45,927 --> 00:34:48,964
Terry decided that, after he graduated,
591
00:34:49,007 --> 00:34:51,919
that he wanted us to keep doing
what we were doing,
592
00:34:51,967 --> 00:34:56,119
we could make some money selling stuff
to Harvey Kurtzman's magazine.
593
00:34:56,167 --> 00:34:59,603
So he decided he was going
to go to New York
594
00:34:59,647 --> 00:35:02,480
and find Harvey Kurtzman,
who was our idol.
595
00:35:02,527 --> 00:35:06,156
So l came to New York and managed
to have a meeting with him,
596
00:35:06,207 --> 00:35:08,277
l walked in, it was the Algonquin Hotel.
597
00:35:08,327 --> 00:35:11,478
He wasn't there, but it was full
of all my favourite cartoonists,
598
00:35:11,527 --> 00:35:14,837
all the people that had worked for Mad
and were now working for Harvey.
599
00:35:14,887 --> 00:35:17,401
These were my gods,
and they were all in the room,
600
00:35:17,447 --> 00:35:20,280
and Harvey turns up a little bit later,
601
00:35:20,327 --> 00:35:24,878
and Chuck Alverson, who was the
assistant editor at that time, was quitting,
602
00:35:24,927 --> 00:35:28,124
and they needed somebody to take his job
and that was me.
603
00:35:28,167 --> 00:35:30,442
l just walked into the job out of nowhere.
604
00:35:30,487 --> 00:35:35,880
And that was when he came back,
at the beginning of my senior year,
605
00:35:35,927 --> 00:35:39,681
and sat down in the dorm
and told us that he had gotten a job,
606
00:35:39,727 --> 00:35:42,082
working for Harvey Kurtzman.
607
00:35:42,127 --> 00:35:45,244
You know, which to me
was just like, you know,
608
00:35:45,287 --> 00:35:46,845
ascending Mount Olympus
609
00:35:46,887 --> 00:35:50,596
and getting a job working for Zeus,
or something like that!
610
00:35:50,647 --> 00:35:56,040
lt was, like, unthinkable that people like us
could be doing things like that,
611
00:35:56,087 --> 00:35:58,601
but Terry just saw, ''Yeah, we can do that.''
612
00:35:58,647 --> 00:36:02,925
Help! magazine, in that sense,
was the beginning of my connection
613
00:36:02,967 --> 00:36:06,516
with what would become Python,
because we had written a story
614
00:36:06,567 --> 00:36:09,843
about a man who falls in love
with his daughter's Barbie doll.
615
00:36:09,887 --> 00:36:13,675
About that time, Terry and l
went to Greenwich Village
616
00:36:13,727 --> 00:36:17,800
to see this show that had opened
called Cambridge Circus.
617
00:36:17,847 --> 00:36:21,283
lt was playing in Greenwich Village,
it was comedy from England,
618
00:36:21,327 --> 00:36:25,479
and it was supposed to be really funny,
so we went, and it was hilarious.
619
00:36:25,527 --> 00:36:29,281
And there was this guy in the show
named John Cleese.
620
00:36:29,327 --> 00:36:35,197
Terry met me and he said, basically,
''l like the faces you pull.''
621
00:36:35,247 --> 00:36:39,525
Which is very, very complimentary.
People used to say it to Laurence Olivier.
622
00:36:39,567 --> 00:36:42,604
''You know, Sir Larry,
love the faces you pull.''
623
00:36:42,647 --> 00:36:46,435
John, of course, stood out
in every possible way from the crowd,
624
00:36:46,487 --> 00:36:51,322
and l got him to appear in this,
and that was the beginning of a friendship.
625
00:36:51,367 --> 00:36:55,246
And so when Terry, later on,
wound up in England,
626
00:36:55,287 --> 00:36:57,926
many years later,
he hooked up with John again,
627
00:36:57,967 --> 00:36:59,844
and the rest is history.
628
00:37:07,727 --> 00:37:12,039
l think that the show
that really focused us all on television
629
00:37:12,087 --> 00:37:13,964
was That Was The Week That Was,
630
00:37:14,007 --> 00:37:16,077
because it was an extraordinary event,
631
00:37:16,127 --> 00:37:20,837
people now can't realise
how epoch-shattering it was
632
00:37:20,887 --> 00:37:25,722
in that very deferential culture
that still existed in England.
633
00:37:25,767 --> 00:37:28,042
One you may have missed this week
634
00:37:28,087 --> 00:37:31,921
in the Radio Times, in Woman's Hour,
635
00:37:31,967 --> 00:37:36,404
What l've Been Doing, by Cecilia Bevan,
mother of 13 children.
636
00:37:38,447 --> 00:37:41,883
David Frost has always been
extremely good to me,
637
00:37:41,927 --> 00:37:44,521
l have to tell you,
638
00:37:44,567 --> 00:37:49,004
and l suppose l had enough talent,
but he saved me so much time.
639
00:37:49,047 --> 00:37:51,117
And he used to phone me
every couple of months.
640
00:37:51,167 --> 00:37:56,082
We'd stayed not exactly friends but
acquaintances, professional friends.
641
00:37:56,127 --> 00:37:59,199
And he'd set up the satire boom,
in That Was The Week That Was,
642
00:37:59,247 --> 00:38:01,556
and he's doing
this smart Cambridge satire.
643
00:38:01,607 --> 00:38:04,565
l'd written two or three things
for That Was The Week That Was,
644
00:38:04,607 --> 00:38:06,518
which was great excitement.
645
00:38:06,567 --> 00:38:09,365
And he used to ring me up,
always from the airport,
646
00:38:09,407 --> 00:38:12,922
and l remember him calling
and, ''Oh, hello, David,'' l said.
647
00:38:12,967 --> 00:38:15,925
He said, ''Hello, how are you?''
l said, ''Fine, how are you?''
648
00:38:15,967 --> 00:38:18,003
He said, ''Super, super, super, super.''
649
00:38:18,047 --> 00:38:22,359
''Oh,'' he said, ''would you like
to be in a television series?''
650
00:38:22,407 --> 00:38:25,956
And l said, ''What?'' He said,
''Well, l'm doing a new television series,
651
00:38:26,007 --> 00:38:29,443
''it's going to be super,
with Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett.
652
00:38:29,487 --> 00:38:32,365
''You won't know them yet,
but it will be great fun.
653
00:38:32,407 --> 00:38:36,161
''We're going to start in the spring.
Would you like to be in it?''
654
00:38:36,207 --> 00:38:39,244
And l said, ''Yes, please!''
655
00:38:39,287 --> 00:38:43,758
And he said, ''Super! Super! Oh, l have
to go now, they've called my flight.''
656
00:38:44,807 --> 00:38:49,085
And l said, ''l think you... Did that happen?''
657
00:38:58,487 --> 00:39:03,003
Whilst the pop show in Bristol
was keeping me in funds,
658
00:39:03,047 --> 00:39:06,119
it was actually The Frost Report
which gave me,
659
00:39:06,167 --> 00:39:09,557
really, the important breakthrough
as a writer.
660
00:39:09,607 --> 00:39:12,917
So we all wrote for that.
He came to us as a pool of talent.
661
00:39:12,967 --> 00:39:17,643
And the next thing l knew,
l was rehearsing with the Ronnies.
662
00:39:17,687 --> 00:39:21,805
The entire Python team
were writing The Frost Report.
663
00:39:23,407 --> 00:39:26,080
And that's really where l knew them all
664
00:39:26,127 --> 00:39:31,599
and what made Ron and l
feel part of their outfit.
665
00:39:31,647 --> 00:39:33,319
Does it hurt you if l do this?
666
00:39:35,527 --> 00:39:37,995
- Of course it does, l mean...
- You see, it hurts.
667
00:39:38,047 --> 00:39:39,924
- Still...
- Quite. But it's not...
668
00:39:39,967 --> 00:39:41,446
No, it isn't, is it?
669
00:39:41,487 --> 00:39:44,718
What was so good about David is,
if he trusted you, he trusted you.
670
00:39:44,767 --> 00:39:46,120
He just let you get on with it.
671
00:39:46,167 --> 00:39:51,082
And you would be writing a show
that was going out live that night.
672
00:39:51,127 --> 00:39:52,879
l know what adrenaline looks like.
673
00:39:52,927 --> 00:39:55,964
l remember being in the pub,
the Sun ln Splendour, on Portobello Road,
674
00:39:56,007 --> 00:39:58,123
writing a joke, putting it in the taxi,
675
00:39:58,167 --> 00:40:00,362
going back and there it is on television.
676
00:40:00,407 --> 00:40:02,796
And l thought, ''Whoa! That was kinda cool.''
677
00:40:02,847 --> 00:40:04,246
lt was a very good experience.
678
00:40:04,287 --> 00:40:06,676
Mike and Terry wrote, usually, the piece
679
00:40:06,727 --> 00:40:10,402
that was the film insert of the week,
sort of three-minute piece,
680
00:40:10,447 --> 00:40:14,326
and Eric often wrote solos
for Ronnie Barker,
681
00:40:14,367 --> 00:40:17,962
and Gray and l usually wrote
one of the big sketches of the week
682
00:40:18,007 --> 00:40:21,795
which probably all three of us, the
Two Ronnies and l, performed together.
683
00:40:21,847 --> 00:40:25,157
What exactly were you doing
on the night of the 1 4th of October?
684
00:40:25,207 --> 00:40:27,960
We pulled some birds,
slapped 'em back to the drum,
685
00:40:28,007 --> 00:40:30,601
bit of a giggle, all down to larking,
all that carry-on.
686
00:40:30,647 --> 00:40:33,286
Now, look here.
687
00:40:33,327 --> 00:40:36,637
l can't understand a word you're saying.
688
00:40:36,687 --> 00:40:39,997
The great thing about The Frost Report,
anybody who had any good input
689
00:40:40,047 --> 00:40:43,483
could come in and work, which is why
the roller caption was so long
690
00:40:43,527 --> 00:40:45,961
and went spinning through
at an enormous rate,
691
00:40:46,007 --> 00:40:47,599
so my parents could never see my name.
692
00:40:47,647 --> 00:40:50,525
Barry Cryer, bless him,
used to refer to the writers' credits
693
00:40:50,567 --> 00:40:55,038
going through at the end of the Frost
programme as the Dead of World War 2.
694
00:40:55,087 --> 00:40:58,523
Well, it did hold on ''David Frost''
for rather a long time.
695
00:40:58,567 --> 00:41:02,560
There was no danger of David Frost's
parents being unable to see his name,
696
00:41:02,607 --> 00:41:03,801
put it that way.
697
00:41:03,847 --> 00:41:07,965
Jimmy Gilbert, who was directing
and producing the show, had pity on us,
698
00:41:08,007 --> 00:41:12,478
and started us actually performing,
we did these little film inserts.
699
00:41:12,527 --> 00:41:13,801
And he got us...
700
00:41:13,847 --> 00:41:16,202
That was a way of getting us
a bit more money.
701
00:41:16,247 --> 00:41:18,124
We got paid more for performing.
702
00:41:18,167 --> 00:41:20,123
- 50 quid a...
- Well, 20 quid, l think.
703
00:41:20,167 --> 00:41:22,886
- l don't know.
- ..a day, was it? l got 50.
704
00:41:24,247 --> 00:41:28,081
l think there was a sort of little hiatus
between David and the Python boys.
705
00:41:28,127 --> 00:41:32,279
l think they sort of resented
his entrepreneurial touch.
706
00:41:32,327 --> 00:41:37,720
We gradually began to realise that,
along with Michael Palin and Terry Jones
707
00:41:37,767 --> 00:41:42,363
and Eric ldle, we were actually writing
about 90 of the programme.
708
00:41:42,407 --> 00:41:47,401
Then they went and did
At Last The 1948 Show,
709
00:41:47,447 --> 00:41:52,601
which was the Python team, really,
with Tim Brooke-Taylor.
710
00:41:52,647 --> 00:41:55,115
lt was actually David Frost,
to give him his due,
711
00:41:55,167 --> 00:41:58,079
who suggested the show, l think to me.
712
00:41:58,127 --> 00:42:00,925
He didn't want John in it
because he was doing The Frost Report,
713
00:42:00,967 --> 00:42:03,561
but for me, it was essential that John did it.
714
00:42:03,607 --> 00:42:05,962
- Name?
- Gibbon-Posture.
715
00:42:08,567 --> 00:42:11,035
''Possible loony''.
716
00:42:12,527 --> 00:42:16,964
Tim was terrific, and terribly, terribly funny
when he was frightened.
717
00:42:17,007 --> 00:42:19,282
Right, well, what are the problems, then?
718
00:42:19,327 --> 00:42:21,761
Well, it's rather embarrassing to say, really.
719
00:42:21,807 --> 00:42:26,403
l don't like to tell people cos l'm frightened
of them laughing at me.
720
00:42:26,447 --> 00:42:28,403
Sometimes l wanted John to react more.
721
00:42:28,447 --> 00:42:32,281
Somebody told him he was a good actor,
the last thing you should tell a comedian.
722
00:42:32,327 --> 00:42:34,636
l want you to feel absolutely
at your ease.
723
00:42:34,687 --> 00:42:38,282
Of course, anything you say to me
will be in the strictest confidence.
724
00:42:38,327 --> 00:42:41,125
l must tell you about the bloke
who was in this morning!
725
00:42:41,167 --> 00:42:43,556
l said to Marty, ''He's playing it so subtly.''
726
00:42:43,607 --> 00:42:46,326
He said, ''Halfway through,
just stamp on his foot.''
727
00:42:46,367 --> 00:42:48,801
What's the matter? You come in here...
728
00:42:48,847 --> 00:42:50,917
Well, l did do that, and he got so angry,
729
00:42:50,967 --> 00:42:53,356
but he had to keep going,
because the cameras were going,
730
00:42:53,407 --> 00:42:55,238
and he was absolutely brilliant.
731
00:42:55,287 --> 00:42:57,801
l wouldn't dare do it again.
He's bigger than me.
732
00:42:57,847 --> 00:43:01,078
So will you please tell me,
once and for all,
733
00:43:01,127 --> 00:43:05,245
in God's name, what's the matter with you?
734
00:43:05,287 --> 00:43:07,676
l think l'm a rabbit.
735
00:43:07,727 --> 00:43:10,116
''l think l'm a rabbit!''
736
00:43:11,167 --> 00:43:13,681
lt's one of the funniest moments
l've ever seen.
737
00:43:17,527 --> 00:43:20,644
We must have been writing
for The Frost Report,
738
00:43:20,687 --> 00:43:23,645
and Humphrey Barclay said to me,
''l want to do a kids' show.
739
00:43:23,687 --> 00:43:26,918
''l've got this group, the Bonzo Dog Band,
l want you to write it.''
740
00:43:26,967 --> 00:43:31,836
And l said, ''Well, l want to write it with Mike,
Michael Palin and Terry Jones,
741
00:43:31,887 --> 00:43:33,445
''cos l think we'd be great.''
742
00:43:33,487 --> 00:43:36,638
And he said, ''OK, then.''
So we were a little group of writers.
743
00:43:38,047 --> 00:43:39,560
City editor?
744
00:43:39,607 --> 00:43:41,086
- l've got a great story for you.
- Oh, yes?
745
00:43:41,127 --> 00:43:42,765
- A great story.
- Let's hear it.
746
00:43:42,807 --> 00:43:45,685
Once upon a time,
in the Land of the Wobbly Dum-Dum Tree,
747
00:43:45,727 --> 00:43:48,400
Ricky the Gobbly Pixie
sat beneath the magic oak tree...
748
00:43:48,447 --> 00:43:52,281
That's enough! l'm not interested in
fairy stories! This is a newspaper.
749
00:43:52,327 --> 00:43:55,603
- Miss Perkins, show this lunatic out.
- But l haven't finished.
750
00:43:55,647 --> 00:43:58,957
Come away, ere break of day, to Fairyland!
751
00:43:59,007 --> 00:44:03,000
To the golden shores of Fairyland,
l will lead you, my...
752
00:44:03,047 --> 00:44:06,562
lt was kind of a fun show,
because we got to write it,
753
00:44:06,607 --> 00:44:09,679
it was only 23 minutes,
cos it was an lTV half-hour.
754
00:44:09,727 --> 00:44:11,922
The Bonzo Dogs were on every week,
755
00:44:11,967 --> 00:44:14,720
they were the most bizarre
group of people you've ever seen.
756
00:44:14,767 --> 00:44:16,519
There were 1 4 of them the first week,
757
00:44:16,567 --> 00:44:19,035
then they pruned themselves down
to seven or eight.
758
00:44:19,087 --> 00:44:21,999
You're wanted in the Twilight Zone now, sir.
759
00:44:22,047 --> 00:44:24,436
Thank you, Rigor.
760
00:44:39,007 --> 00:44:42,363
They said, ''Go and make
some children's television.''
761
00:44:42,407 --> 00:44:46,480
We didn't think about that, we just thought
about making silly television.
762
00:44:46,527 --> 00:44:48,518
And what a lot of fun it was.
763
00:44:53,047 --> 00:44:55,880
They play, you know,
they play the washboard
764
00:44:55,927 --> 00:44:58,202
and they play the hoover.
765
00:44:58,247 --> 00:45:03,116
And they would do really weird and bizarre
situationist songs.
766
00:45:03,167 --> 00:45:06,603
lt was Dada, really.
The Doo Dah Band was a Dada band.
767
00:45:06,647 --> 00:45:10,526
And that, l think, influenced us enormously.
768
00:45:10,567 --> 00:45:12,717
l think their influence on Python is huge,
769
00:45:12,767 --> 00:45:18,285
because we were doing
little tight little sketches from Cambridge,
770
00:45:18,327 --> 00:45:22,639
but they were doing weird,
it was situationally weird.
771
00:45:28,127 --> 00:45:29,765
l was still working on magazines
772
00:45:29,807 --> 00:45:32,401
and illustrating and art-directing,
773
00:45:32,447 --> 00:45:35,996
and l said, ''Come on.
l gotta get out of magazine work.
774
00:45:36,047 --> 00:45:38,641
''lntroduce me to somebody in television.''
775
00:45:38,687 --> 00:45:41,485
And that person, ultimately,
was Humphrey Barclay,
776
00:45:41,527 --> 00:45:43,916
who was producing Do Not Adjust Your Set,
777
00:45:43,967 --> 00:45:45,923
which Mike, Terry and Eric were doing.
778
00:45:45,967 --> 00:45:50,518
And we were on our second series,
and this weird guy came in,
779
00:45:50,567 --> 00:45:55,243
with this big...long hair, hairy Afghan coat,
780
00:45:55,287 --> 00:45:57,847
and had been sent by Cleese.
781
00:45:57,887 --> 00:46:02,358
Everybody keeps talking about the legendary
moment when l walked in with my coat.
782
00:46:02,407 --> 00:46:05,683
A man and a coat.
And Eric loved that coat.
783
00:46:05,727 --> 00:46:09,800
l fell in love at first sight.
l just loved that Afghan coat.
784
00:46:09,847 --> 00:46:12,566
And he also had a very cute girlfriend
785
00:46:12,607 --> 00:46:14,518
and there was something about him.
786
00:46:14,567 --> 00:46:17,764
And Michael and Terry went,
''We don't fucking need...''
787
00:46:17,807 --> 00:46:22,039
Like two little rodents
hunched in the corner, all...
788
00:46:22,087 --> 00:46:25,124
You know, their little bit of territory
was threatened
789
00:46:25,167 --> 00:46:26,998
by this man in the coat.
790
00:46:29,127 --> 00:46:33,200
And l don't know why,
l knew there was something about him,
791
00:46:33,247 --> 00:46:34,999
and we brought him into our group.
792
00:46:35,047 --> 00:46:38,357
He hadn't done any experience,
hadn't written sketches,
793
00:46:38,407 --> 00:46:42,719
he'd got a few sketches he'd written
which weren't very funny,
794
00:46:42,767 --> 00:46:46,680
but for some wonderful,
weird, instinctive reason,
795
00:46:46,727 --> 00:46:48,922
l said, ''He has to be with us.''
796
00:46:48,967 --> 00:46:51,606
And that was really how it all began,
797
00:46:51,647 --> 00:46:54,480
and then the next series
of Do Not Adjust Your Set,
798
00:46:54,527 --> 00:46:59,203
l started doing some animation on that.
We were all stuck together by then.
799
00:46:59,247 --> 00:47:02,876
As far as l was concerned,
we've all got different versions, of course,
800
00:47:02,927 --> 00:47:07,125
Graham and l were writing,
for about 18 months, we just wrote,
801
00:47:07,167 --> 00:47:10,125
cos l'd just married Connie Booth,
she was American,
802
00:47:10,167 --> 00:47:13,000
l did not want to be spending
a lot of time in a studio
803
00:47:13,047 --> 00:47:15,277
when she was a stranger in London.
804
00:47:15,327 --> 00:47:18,524
So l deliberately worked from home
for a year and a half,
805
00:47:18,567 --> 00:47:20,876
and Gray and l wrote a number of scripts.
806
00:47:20,927 --> 00:47:23,157
Our treat for the week
was always to turn on,
807
00:47:23,207 --> 00:47:25,721
l think it was Thursday afternoon,
about 4:30,
808
00:47:25,767 --> 00:47:29,680
Do Not Adjust Your Set, which,
for us, was the funniest thing on television.
809
00:47:29,727 --> 00:47:31,206
lt's time for Party Games.
810
00:47:31,247 --> 00:47:34,398
Here are some exciting games
you can play this Christmas.
811
00:47:34,447 --> 00:47:37,837
First, from Terry, here's the A and B game.
812
00:47:37,887 --> 00:47:40,799
Well, all the teams are divided -
guests, l should say -
813
00:47:40,847 --> 00:47:42,803
are divided into two teams, A and B.
814
00:47:42,847 --> 00:47:43,996
And B are the winners.
815
00:47:45,447 --> 00:47:48,405
Well, you can make it
more complicated if you want to.
816
00:47:48,447 --> 00:47:51,644
We'd done two series
of Do Not Adjust Your Set.
817
00:47:51,687 --> 00:47:54,360
There was discussion
about doing another series.
818
00:47:54,407 --> 00:47:58,002
l didn't want to do it, cos l was fed up
with the way it was being directed.
819
00:47:58,047 --> 00:48:01,835
Eventually, because we knew them
from The Frost Report,
820
00:48:01,887 --> 00:48:05,436
we rang them up and said, ''Well,
why don't we do something together?''
821
00:48:05,487 --> 00:48:07,205
And they were a bit snotty,
822
00:48:07,247 --> 00:48:10,922
cos they'd just had an offer from
Philip Jones at Thames Television.
823
00:48:10,967 --> 00:48:13,561
They said, ''You've been so good,
done two seasons,
824
00:48:13,607 --> 00:48:17,680
''adults are coming home at 5:25 to see
your show, you're getting huge ratings,
825
00:48:17,727 --> 00:48:19,604
''we want to give you a grown-up show.
826
00:48:19,647 --> 00:48:22,525
''The only trouble is,
we have no studio for two years.''
827
00:48:22,567 --> 00:48:26,924
So when John suggested doing something
together, we said, ''Yes, please!''
828
00:48:26,967 --> 00:48:30,562
And, ''Can we bring Eric along?
And Terry Gilliam?''
829
00:48:30,607 --> 00:48:32,563
John wanted to work with Mike.
830
00:48:32,607 --> 00:48:35,804
And it's as simple as that.
Everybody wanted to work with Mike.
831
00:48:35,847 --> 00:48:38,964
And that was the beginning,
and we tagged along.
832
00:48:39,007 --> 00:48:42,556
And l think it's really happenstance
that that group came together.
833
00:48:42,607 --> 00:48:45,440
l don't think it was hand-picked
or selected in any way.
834
00:48:45,487 --> 00:48:49,241
lt sort of fell onto the table and it worked.
835
00:49:38,727 --> 00:49:40,001
lt's...
836
00:49:41,305 --> 00:50:41,165
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