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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:07,924 --> 00:00:10,010 ♪ dramatic, atmospheric music ♪ 2 00:00:21,146 --> 00:00:24,315 ♪ "Billie Jean" by Michael Jackson ♪ 3 00:00:25,984 --> 00:00:29,279 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 4 00:00:29,779 --> 00:00:32,282 ♪ "Beat It" by Michael Jackson ♪ 5 00:00:32,282 --> 00:00:35,076 There are two things in the music business: 6 00:00:35,076 --> 00:00:37,829 before Thriller and after Thriller. 7 00:00:45,587 --> 00:00:47,172 ♪ But you wanna be bad ♪ 8 00:00:47,172 --> 00:00:51,051 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 9 00:00:51,051 --> 00:00:54,095 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 10 00:00:54,095 --> 00:00:57,849 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 11 00:00:57,849 --> 00:00:59,559 ♪ It doesn't matter... ♪ 12 00:00:59,559 --> 00:01:00,977 Mark. 13 00:01:01,478 --> 00:01:03,146 The first time I heard 14 00:01:03,146 --> 00:01:05,148 Michael Jackson's Thriller, he was pop, 15 00:01:05,148 --> 00:01:08,860 he was R and B, he was gospel, he was rock. 16 00:01:08,860 --> 00:01:10,195 It was everything that I loved. 17 00:01:10,195 --> 00:01:12,030 And bring all of these elements together-- 18 00:01:12,030 --> 00:01:13,281 dance and choreography 19 00:01:13,281 --> 00:01:15,158 and theatrical moments and the feeling, 20 00:01:15,158 --> 00:01:17,994 you know, like a musical, damn near. 21 00:01:17,994 --> 00:01:21,873 The magic of it-- each track was better than the next. 22 00:01:21,873 --> 00:01:24,000 It was in your brain, and everybody knew it. 23 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,960 For the 14th consecutive week, 24 00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:27,295 the best-selling album in the country 25 00:01:27,295 --> 00:01:29,756 is Michael Jackson's Thriller. 26 00:01:29,756 --> 00:01:31,216 If Thriller came out today, 27 00:01:31,216 --> 00:01:33,927 it would still be the greatest album ever made. 28 00:01:33,927 --> 00:01:37,430 It's the ultimate blueprint to modern pop music. 29 00:01:37,430 --> 00:01:39,974 I love the way that record is sequenced, right? 30 00:01:39,974 --> 00:01:42,185 "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'." The title says it. 31 00:01:42,185 --> 00:01:44,729 He wanted to be starting some shit right now. He wanted... 32 00:01:44,729 --> 00:01:46,231 He's like, "I'm about to start some shit 33 00:01:46,231 --> 00:01:48,108 in the industry right now. I'm about to blow everybody up." 34 00:01:48,108 --> 00:01:50,026 This was literally the pinnacle of everything 35 00:01:50,026 --> 00:01:51,194 that began with him. 36 00:01:51,194 --> 00:01:53,655 "Thriller," "Beat It" 37 00:01:53,655 --> 00:01:55,073 and "Billie Jean." 38 00:01:55,073 --> 00:01:57,117 To this day, when "Thriller" comes on, I mean, 39 00:01:57,117 --> 00:01:59,285 there's not a Halloween that doesn't happen 40 00:01:59,285 --> 00:02:00,912 where you don't hear that song. 41 00:02:00,912 --> 00:02:03,998 But then you have "Human Nature," "P.Y.T.," 42 00:02:03,998 --> 00:02:05,917 and then you have "Lady in My Life." 43 00:02:05,917 --> 00:02:09,003 It became the biggest-selling album ever. 44 00:02:09,003 --> 00:02:12,674 Michael Jackson. Always keep one in the cab. 45 00:02:12,674 --> 00:02:14,467 This is history. 46 00:02:14,467 --> 00:02:16,094 I want to say it's Black culture, 47 00:02:16,094 --> 00:02:17,887 but it's-it's for everyone. 48 00:02:17,887 --> 00:02:19,514 Thriller is the biggest-selling 49 00:02:19,514 --> 00:02:20,473 album of all time. 50 00:02:20,473 --> 00:02:22,225 Thriller is a cultural phenomenon 51 00:02:22,225 --> 00:02:25,562 that's lasted four decades and seems determined 52 00:02:25,562 --> 00:02:27,647 to continue going forward. 53 00:02:32,110 --> 00:02:33,778 What takes your breath away is 54 00:02:33,778 --> 00:02:37,323 he had the ambition to become the biggest star in the world. 55 00:02:37,323 --> 00:02:39,951 And he did it. The fact that he had 56 00:02:39,951 --> 00:02:42,203 that dream, I mean, that-that goal, 57 00:02:42,203 --> 00:02:45,748 that's what's the remarkable story. 58 00:02:48,042 --> 00:02:49,961 ♪ soft, curious music ♪ 59 00:02:49,961 --> 00:02:51,588 Ever since we were kids, 60 00:02:51,588 --> 00:02:55,633 we've always wanted to dance or keep the time to the music. 61 00:02:55,633 --> 00:02:57,093 And that's part of us. 62 00:02:57,093 --> 00:02:59,345 It's like, uh, something we have to have. 63 00:02:59,345 --> 00:03:01,556 And it's in us, because I don't know 64 00:03:01,556 --> 00:03:04,392 what I would do if there was, uh... wasn't music. 65 00:03:04,392 --> 00:03:06,019 Joe Jackson's role 66 00:03:06,019 --> 00:03:09,230 in his children's careers would give people a lot to talk about. 67 00:03:09,230 --> 00:03:12,150 The former steelworker had somehow gotten his family 68 00:03:12,150 --> 00:03:14,319 out of Indiana, groomed for stardom. 69 00:03:14,319 --> 00:03:17,530 ♪ "I Want You Back" by The Jackson 5 ♪ 70 00:03:25,330 --> 00:03:27,040 Now, here are five brothers 71 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,001 from Gary, Indiana, ranging in age from ten to 18: 72 00:03:30,001 --> 00:03:31,294 The Jackson 5. 73 00:03:31,294 --> 00:03:34,923 ♪ Oh, baby, give me one more chance ♪ 74 00:03:34,923 --> 00:03:36,257 ♪ To show you that I love you ♪ 75 00:03:36,257 --> 00:03:40,053 ♪ Won't you please let me ♪ 76 00:03:40,053 --> 00:03:41,471 ♪ Back in your heart ♪ 77 00:03:41,471 --> 00:03:45,141 ♪ Oh, darlin', I was blind to let you go ♪ 78 00:03:45,141 --> 00:03:46,309 ♪ Let you go, baby ♪ 79 00:03:46,309 --> 00:03:48,061 ♪ But now since I see you... ♪ 80 00:03:48,061 --> 00:03:49,938 This poor man's life has been 81 00:03:49,938 --> 00:03:51,231 dissected completely. 82 00:03:51,231 --> 00:03:53,775 Is there anything anybody hasn't asked you by now? 83 00:03:53,775 --> 00:03:54,859 Um... 84 00:03:54,859 --> 00:03:56,194 ♪ Enjoy yourself ♪ 85 00:03:56,194 --> 00:03:59,072 ♪ Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself with me ♪ 86 00:03:59,072 --> 00:04:02,158 ♪ Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself ♪ 87 00:04:02,158 --> 00:04:04,744 ♪ Enjoy yourself with me ♪ 88 00:04:04,744 --> 00:04:06,496 ♪ You better enjoy yourself... ♪ 89 00:04:06,496 --> 00:04:09,207 Now, tell me, what do you think is the success 90 00:04:09,207 --> 00:04:11,042 of the Jacksons, yourself and the Jacksons? 91 00:04:11,042 --> 00:04:14,837 I would say probably, um, togetherness. 92 00:04:14,837 --> 00:04:17,507 I can't think about Michael without thinking about 93 00:04:17,507 --> 00:04:20,510 The Jackson 5 and Motown and all of that, 94 00:04:20,510 --> 00:04:22,845 so it takes me a little further back. 95 00:04:22,845 --> 00:04:24,055 Takes me to Off the Wall, 96 00:04:24,055 --> 00:04:25,723 which is one of my favorite records. 97 00:04:27,642 --> 00:04:29,811 Welcome to WBLS once again, Michael Jackson. 98 00:04:29,811 --> 00:04:31,104 Thank you very much. 99 00:04:31,104 --> 00:04:32,605 The name of the album is... 100 00:04:32,605 --> 00:04:34,232 - Off the Wall. - Are you? 101 00:04:35,566 --> 00:04:38,152 We'll be back with Michael right after this. 102 00:04:38,152 --> 00:04:41,281 ♪ Lovely ♪ 103 00:04:41,281 --> 00:04:45,827 ♪ Is the feeling now ♪ 104 00:04:45,827 --> 00:04:48,454 ♪ Fever... ♪ 105 00:04:48,454 --> 00:04:51,457 I was not the biggest Jackson 5 fan. 106 00:04:51,457 --> 00:04:53,293 I was a serious pop music critic. 107 00:04:53,293 --> 00:04:55,586 And I said, "Well, it's cute what they're doing." 108 00:04:55,586 --> 00:04:58,214 - ♪ Baby, baby ♪ - ♪ Ow, ow... ♪ 109 00:04:58,214 --> 00:04:59,590 You know, James Brown, 110 00:04:59,590 --> 00:05:01,509 Jackie Wilson, that's really nice. 111 00:05:01,509 --> 00:05:03,469 You know, it wasn't what I was interested in. 112 00:05:03,469 --> 00:05:05,680 And then Off the Wall comes out, 113 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:07,724 and I was caught up in the excitement 114 00:05:07,724 --> 00:05:10,226 of learning more about Michael and his world, 115 00:05:10,226 --> 00:05:11,644 so I interview him separately. 116 00:05:11,644 --> 00:05:14,689 You interview the brothers all together, him separately. 117 00:05:14,689 --> 00:05:16,190 You know, he's nervous. 118 00:05:16,190 --> 00:05:18,109 He doesn't like to do interviews. 119 00:05:18,109 --> 00:05:20,111 He's sad, he's lonely, he says. 120 00:05:20,111 --> 00:05:23,031 He starts talking about his life. 121 00:05:23,031 --> 00:05:25,658 ♪ soft, melancholy music ♪ 122 00:05:25,658 --> 00:05:30,413 He was so hurt around 14 and 15 and 16, 123 00:05:30,413 --> 00:05:32,206 when his face changed. 124 00:05:32,206 --> 00:05:34,792 He got bigger. 125 00:05:34,792 --> 00:05:37,128 I mean, his face had broken out. 126 00:05:37,128 --> 00:05:38,463 He was so sad. 127 00:05:38,463 --> 00:05:40,340 People didn't care about him anymore. 128 00:05:40,340 --> 00:05:42,925 You know, adults would come into a party at some house, 129 00:05:42,925 --> 00:05:46,304 and they would be looking all around. "Where's Michael?" 130 00:05:46,304 --> 00:05:49,557 And they'd be walking right past him, you know? 131 00:05:49,557 --> 00:05:52,310 And he got the feeling that, "We don't care about you. 132 00:05:52,310 --> 00:05:54,896 We want that little kid." 133 00:05:57,982 --> 00:05:59,609 He was dead set on his focus 134 00:05:59,609 --> 00:06:03,112 to be, you know, Michael Jackson, solo artist. 135 00:06:03,112 --> 00:06:05,073 And he had to. 136 00:06:05,073 --> 00:06:07,742 He knew that it was time. He knew that... 137 00:06:07,742 --> 00:06:12,497 He was excited to have it all be on his own terms. 138 00:06:12,497 --> 00:06:15,750 You know, not with... not attached to anybody. 139 00:06:15,750 --> 00:06:18,127 And he knew that-that... 140 00:06:18,127 --> 00:06:20,421 that he was even gonna soar from that. 141 00:06:20,421 --> 00:06:24,425 Well, Off the Wall was an enormous success. 142 00:06:24,425 --> 00:06:27,929 It-it put Michael on the map as a solo artist. 143 00:06:28,679 --> 00:06:31,391 People forget that, before Off the Wall, 144 00:06:31,391 --> 00:06:35,812 there was a period between Motown and the Destiny album 145 00:06:35,812 --> 00:06:37,105 where people thought maybe 146 00:06:37,105 --> 00:06:38,940 the career of The Jackson 5 was over, 147 00:06:38,940 --> 00:06:42,819 that they were yesterday's news, forgotten boy band, really. 148 00:06:42,819 --> 00:06:46,322 So Off the Wall reestablished Michael as someone to watch. 149 00:06:46,322 --> 00:06:49,659 Off the Wall was just this incredible record, 150 00:06:49,659 --> 00:06:52,495 and we knew that Mike was coming back 151 00:06:52,495 --> 00:06:54,038 with something special because 152 00:06:54,038 --> 00:06:57,875 he didn't win everything that he wanted during the Grammys, 153 00:06:57,875 --> 00:07:00,294 and he only won one award, 154 00:07:00,294 --> 00:07:02,880 which was the R and B award at that. 155 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:04,590 He thought he was gonna sweep. 156 00:07:04,590 --> 00:07:07,593 He thought for sure, "I got a pop smash here." 157 00:07:07,593 --> 00:07:11,431 So, when that didn't happen, he left there with a vengeance, 158 00:07:11,431 --> 00:07:14,725 just determined to do better next time. 159 00:07:14,725 --> 00:07:16,477 He was determined 160 00:07:16,477 --> 00:07:18,438 to change the way he was perceived. 161 00:07:18,438 --> 00:07:22,650 Uh, there were a lot of writings he did to himself, affirmations. 162 00:07:27,238 --> 00:07:28,531 I look in the mirror, 163 00:07:28,531 --> 00:07:30,324 and I would say over and over to myself... 164 00:07:30,324 --> 00:07:32,785 I'd take a deep breath, put my feet together, 165 00:07:32,785 --> 00:07:36,122 raise myself erect, strong like a... 166 00:07:36,122 --> 00:07:38,374 a hero warrior, and I'd say, 167 00:07:38,374 --> 00:07:40,585 "Biggest-selling album of all time, greatest seller," 168 00:07:40,585 --> 00:07:43,129 over and over to my mind, and look in my eyes. 169 00:07:43,129 --> 00:07:44,338 And I'd mean it. 170 00:07:44,338 --> 00:07:46,466 I'd say, "Biggest-selling album of all times." 171 00:07:46,466 --> 00:07:48,134 And I wouldn't accept anything 172 00:07:48,134 --> 00:07:50,803 unless this was exactly what I wanted. 173 00:07:50,803 --> 00:07:51,804 My attitude was: 174 00:07:51,804 --> 00:07:53,890 I want the biggest-selling album of all times, 175 00:07:53,890 --> 00:07:57,310 to break records, to do phenomenal work. 176 00:07:57,310 --> 00:07:59,061 I came in angry. 177 00:07:59,061 --> 00:08:00,521 Michael was writing. 178 00:08:00,521 --> 00:08:02,940 He was writing. He was fuming. 179 00:08:02,940 --> 00:08:05,109 He was still upset about 180 00:08:05,109 --> 00:08:07,820 this idea that he would be denied, 181 00:08:07,820 --> 00:08:10,490 you know, major awards for Off the Wall. 182 00:08:10,490 --> 00:08:12,575 I just remember all of the, uh... 183 00:08:12,575 --> 00:08:14,494 the process of when they were doing it. 184 00:08:14,494 --> 00:08:16,412 And the, uh... the excitement 185 00:08:16,412 --> 00:08:18,206 while they're recording, just, you know... 186 00:08:18,206 --> 00:08:19,999 just hearing tales, you know, as they're coming 187 00:08:19,999 --> 00:08:21,459 in and out of the studio with it. 188 00:08:24,003 --> 00:08:26,380 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 189 00:08:26,380 --> 00:08:28,341 ♪ You got to be startin' somethin' ♪ 190 00:08:28,341 --> 00:08:30,426 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 191 00:08:30,426 --> 00:08:32,094 ♪ You got to be startin' somethin' ♪ 192 00:08:32,094 --> 00:08:34,180 - ♪ It's too high to get over ♪ - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 193 00:08:34,180 --> 00:08:35,681 ♪ You're too low to get under ♪ 194 00:08:35,681 --> 00:08:37,558 ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ You're stuck in the middle ♪ 195 00:08:37,558 --> 00:08:39,477 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ And the pain is thunder ♪ 196 00:08:39,477 --> 00:08:40,895 ♪ Yeah, yeah... ♪ 197 00:08:40,895 --> 00:08:42,688 Westlake was a really great studio 198 00:08:42,688 --> 00:08:46,567 because y-you felt the facility had this warmth 199 00:08:46,567 --> 00:08:50,655 and this friendliness and this casual put-you-at-ease feeling. 200 00:08:50,655 --> 00:08:53,324 There was just the most incredible vibe. 201 00:08:53,324 --> 00:08:57,245 Where you could just be creatively free to-to take... 202 00:08:57,245 --> 00:08:59,956 take the music wherever you wanted. 203 00:09:02,500 --> 00:09:04,544 This is hallowed ground. I was... I was in here a lot 204 00:09:04,544 --> 00:09:06,379 'cause Quincy made a lot of records in here. 205 00:09:06,379 --> 00:09:08,965 Off the Wall was made in here. 206 00:09:08,965 --> 00:09:10,508 Certainly Thriller. 207 00:09:10,508 --> 00:09:11,968 Quincy worked in here a lot. 208 00:09:11,968 --> 00:09:13,177 Quincy influenced everything 209 00:09:13,177 --> 00:09:14,595 - we've ever done in our lives. - Yes. 210 00:09:14,595 --> 00:09:16,681 - Whether you can hear it or not. - Exactly. 211 00:09:16,681 --> 00:09:19,308 Depth of understanding of music. 212 00:09:19,308 --> 00:09:20,810 That's what makes Quincy Quincy. 213 00:09:20,810 --> 00:09:23,521 He's done big band. He's done small bands. 214 00:09:23,521 --> 00:09:25,982 He's done pop. He's done rock. 215 00:09:25,982 --> 00:09:27,400 He's done everything. 216 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,569 So, just understanding all those different genres 217 00:09:29,569 --> 00:09:32,405 and-and how to fuse them all together 218 00:09:32,405 --> 00:09:33,823 is what gives you all these 219 00:09:33,823 --> 00:09:37,118 wonderful applications that you get on a Michael Jackson record. 220 00:09:37,118 --> 00:09:38,327 And that sound was ma... 221 00:09:38,327 --> 00:09:40,705 You know, Bruce Swedien had a lot to do with 222 00:09:40,705 --> 00:09:42,665 how that overall sound was-- the echo 223 00:09:42,665 --> 00:09:46,168 and the reverbs and the... the way he would place things. 224 00:09:46,168 --> 00:09:47,753 And they were excited. 225 00:09:47,753 --> 00:09:49,338 As we were making the record, 226 00:09:49,338 --> 00:09:50,715 you could feel the excitement in the room. 227 00:09:50,715 --> 00:09:52,466 Knowing that we were doing something 228 00:09:52,466 --> 00:09:54,468 that was gonna be special. 229 00:10:01,892 --> 00:10:03,603 Wow, I don't even know 230 00:10:03,603 --> 00:10:04,854 where to begin. 231 00:10:04,854 --> 00:10:07,481 I just remember coming here to this studio, 232 00:10:07,481 --> 00:10:10,234 which was like a second home, 233 00:10:10,234 --> 00:10:12,820 and coming in, listening to, uh, 234 00:10:12,820 --> 00:10:16,282 the demos that Rod Temperton would provide. 235 00:10:16,282 --> 00:10:19,493 And we would just start to carve musically 236 00:10:19,493 --> 00:10:24,165 and-and work our way into the details of the demos. 237 00:10:24,165 --> 00:10:26,375 Rod Temperton. 238 00:10:26,375 --> 00:10:28,085 This guy was brilliant. 239 00:10:28,085 --> 00:10:29,795 I mean, he was deep. 240 00:10:29,795 --> 00:10:32,006 I love Rod Temperton. He wrote incredible songs, 241 00:10:32,006 --> 00:10:36,719 and he was a part of Quincy's, you know, tight team. 242 00:10:37,970 --> 00:10:40,348 We did a lot of funky sounds 243 00:10:40,348 --> 00:10:41,849 on "Baby Be Mine." 244 00:10:54,570 --> 00:10:55,905 Quincy was just looking for... 245 00:10:55,905 --> 00:10:57,615 He's always looking for something different. 246 00:10:57,615 --> 00:10:59,617 So we were brought in because it was... 247 00:10:59,617 --> 00:11:01,786 I think Quincy knew about MTV, 248 00:11:01,786 --> 00:11:03,746 and he was looking for a cinematic thing 249 00:11:03,746 --> 00:11:05,831 'cause Quincy came from film. 250 00:11:05,831 --> 00:11:08,250 When Michael would want... he-he knew things 251 00:11:08,250 --> 00:11:09,627 that he would want for sounds. 252 00:11:09,627 --> 00:11:12,505 And, uh, he would put it on a record player and play it. 253 00:11:12,505 --> 00:11:14,840 And then I'd say, "Well, let me go get that other synth." 254 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,384 So it would be in the truck, 255 00:11:16,384 --> 00:11:18,344 parked in the parking lot of Westlake, 256 00:11:18,344 --> 00:11:19,720 or it would be in the hallway. 257 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:21,347 We had Anvil Cases lined up the hall, 258 00:11:21,347 --> 00:11:23,474 and we just basically took over the place. 259 00:11:23,474 --> 00:11:26,394 And we were creating sounds and using synthesizers 260 00:11:26,394 --> 00:11:28,646 in-in kind of a big way and replacing orchestra. 261 00:11:36,654 --> 00:11:38,572 So, one of the things that 262 00:11:38,572 --> 00:11:40,074 I noticed about Michael's development 263 00:11:40,074 --> 00:11:41,826 as a songwriter-- I-I saw him getting 264 00:11:41,826 --> 00:11:43,536 more rhythmically and harmonically advanced, 265 00:11:43,536 --> 00:11:45,621 taking steps forward and forward and forward. 266 00:11:45,621 --> 00:11:48,833 His talent was not only developing as a singer. 267 00:11:48,833 --> 00:11:50,543 - Mm-hmm. - He developed as a... 268 00:11:50,543 --> 00:11:52,420 - as an entertainer. - Yes. 269 00:11:52,420 --> 00:11:54,130 It's funny you guys should have picked this room, 270 00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:57,758 'cause I'm walking through here, you know, and I-I just... 271 00:11:57,758 --> 00:11:59,677 you know, I'm just seeing. I can... 272 00:11:59,677 --> 00:12:01,345 I almost, um, channel him, 273 00:12:01,345 --> 00:12:03,431 - his spirit into this room. - Yeah. 274 00:12:03,431 --> 00:12:04,765 He had us prepared. 275 00:12:04,765 --> 00:12:06,642 - We were prepared. - No question. 276 00:12:06,642 --> 00:12:08,310 And he would come in ready to go. 277 00:12:08,310 --> 00:12:10,604 He was the kind of individual that, uh, 278 00:12:10,604 --> 00:12:12,940 had a awesome work ethic. 279 00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:15,067 The process was 280 00:12:15,067 --> 00:12:16,610 quite a, uh, adventure 281 00:12:16,610 --> 00:12:19,029 'cause most people forget that the first single 282 00:12:19,029 --> 00:12:20,823 from the album was "The Girl Is Mine." 283 00:12:20,823 --> 00:12:23,701 ♪ "The Girl Is Mine" by Michael Jackson & Paul McCartney ♪ 284 00:12:23,701 --> 00:12:26,704 Obviously, you had no bigger star in the world 285 00:12:26,704 --> 00:12:28,038 than Paul McCartney. 286 00:12:28,038 --> 00:12:29,915 And, you know, the pairing of Michael and Paul, 287 00:12:29,915 --> 00:12:33,043 what better flag waver to get a project started? 288 00:12:33,043 --> 00:12:35,671 ♪ Every night, she walks right in my dreams ♪ 289 00:12:35,671 --> 00:12:39,175 ♪ Since I met her from the start ♪ 290 00:12:39,175 --> 00:12:41,927 ♪ I'm so proud I am the only one ♪ 291 00:12:41,927 --> 00:12:44,388 ♪ Who is special in her heart ♪ 292 00:12:44,388 --> 00:12:46,682 ♪ The girl is mine ♪ 293 00:12:46,682 --> 00:12:49,268 Yeah, hit it, John. Hit it, John. 294 00:12:49,268 --> 00:12:52,980 ♪ The doggone girl is mine... ♪ 295 00:12:52,980 --> 00:12:54,607 So we get the call. 296 00:12:54,607 --> 00:12:56,275 It's, like, Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson. 297 00:12:56,275 --> 00:12:58,652 I mean, it just didn't get any bigger than that, 298 00:12:58,652 --> 00:13:00,696 so we were kind of like, 299 00:13:00,696 --> 00:13:02,740 "Oh, holy shit. What are we gonna do? 300 00:13:02,740 --> 00:13:04,408 What's this gonna be all about?" 301 00:13:04,408 --> 00:13:06,952 When Paul McCartney walked in the room, 302 00:13:06,952 --> 00:13:09,079 there was a palpable change of energy of: 303 00:13:09,079 --> 00:13:11,248 "Oh, my God, that's Paul McCartney." 304 00:13:11,248 --> 00:13:14,502 ♪ Saying that she's yours, not mine ♪ 305 00:13:14,502 --> 00:13:17,463 ♪ Sending roses and your silly dreams ♪ 306 00:13:17,463 --> 00:13:19,465 ♪ Really just a waste of time ♪ 307 00:13:19,465 --> 00:13:21,842 ♪ Because she's mine ♪ 308 00:13:21,842 --> 00:13:24,678 - Beautiful. Whew! - Yeah. 309 00:13:24,678 --> 00:13:26,180 ♪ The doggone girl is mine ♪ 310 00:13:26,180 --> 00:13:28,599 Do that one more time, man, from the second verse. 311 00:13:28,599 --> 00:13:30,226 Uh, that was a wonderful day. 312 00:13:30,226 --> 00:13:32,478 For me, it was a day that changed my life. 313 00:13:32,478 --> 00:13:35,439 I was in the presence of the greatest, 314 00:13:35,439 --> 00:13:37,191 most successful people 315 00:13:37,191 --> 00:13:38,526 in the music business. 316 00:13:38,526 --> 00:13:41,570 Paul McCartney, Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones. 317 00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:43,614 George Martin was there. 318 00:13:43,614 --> 00:13:45,783 Because of its catchy melody, 319 00:13:45,783 --> 00:13:48,661 many think "The Girl Is Mine" was written by Paul McCartney, 320 00:13:48,661 --> 00:13:51,872 when, in fact, it was composed by Michael Jackson. 321 00:13:51,872 --> 00:13:54,500 ♪ Really just a waste of time ♪ 322 00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:56,627 ♪ Because she's mine... ♪ 323 00:13:56,627 --> 00:13:58,546 Once the music started flowing, 324 00:13:58,546 --> 00:14:00,673 it was like here's two old friends. 325 00:14:01,882 --> 00:14:05,094 - ♪ 326 00:14:07,137 --> 00:14:08,639 ♪ The girl is mine ♪ 327 00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:10,182 ♪ Mine, mine ♪ 328 00:14:10,182 --> 00:14:12,226 ♪ Yes, she's mine ♪ 329 00:14:12,226 --> 00:14:14,395 - ♪ Mine, mine ♪ - ♪ Don't waste ♪ 330 00:14:15,521 --> 00:14:17,439 ♪ But we both cannot have her ♪ 331 00:14:17,439 --> 00:14:20,484 ♪ So it's one or the other ♪ 332 00:14:20,484 --> 00:14:22,987 ♪ And one day you'll discover ♪ 333 00:14:22,987 --> 00:14:26,282 ♪ That she's my girl forever and ever ♪ 334 00:14:26,282 --> 00:14:29,201 ♪ Don't build your hopes to be let down... ♪ 335 00:14:29,201 --> 00:14:31,579 Coming out of Off the Wall, 336 00:14:31,579 --> 00:14:32,830 the challenge was: 337 00:14:32,830 --> 00:14:34,498 Is Michael Jackson really a pop star, 338 00:14:34,498 --> 00:14:36,041 or is he just a big R and B artist? 339 00:14:36,041 --> 00:14:38,127 ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, whoo ♪ 340 00:14:38,127 --> 00:14:39,879 The way it worked was that 341 00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:41,964 you were a Black artist until you weren't, 342 00:14:41,964 --> 00:14:45,217 and you weren't when you got on the pop charts. 343 00:14:45,217 --> 00:14:46,260 Michael told me 344 00:14:46,260 --> 00:14:48,804 "The Girl Is Mine" was his sneak attack. 345 00:14:48,804 --> 00:14:51,891 He knew he wanted to cross over, and what better way to do it 346 00:14:51,891 --> 00:14:53,767 than to have Paul McCartney? 347 00:14:53,767 --> 00:14:55,311 I've heard it all before, Michael. 348 00:14:55,311 --> 00:14:57,438 She told me that I'm her forever lover, you know? 349 00:14:57,438 --> 00:14:58,606 Don't you remember? 350 00:14:58,606 --> 00:15:00,024 Well, after loving me, 351 00:15:00,024 --> 00:15:01,942 she said she couldn't love another. 352 00:15:01,942 --> 00:15:03,068 Is that what she said? 353 00:15:03,068 --> 00:15:04,987 Yeah, she said it. You keep dreaming. 354 00:15:04,987 --> 00:15:07,489 - ♪ I don't believe it, no ♪ - ♪ Mine, mine ♪ 355 00:15:07,489 --> 00:15:10,743 - ♪ The girl is mine ♪ - ♪ Mine, mine, mine ♪ 356 00:15:10,743 --> 00:15:12,369 - ♪ No, mine ♪ - ♪ No, mine ♪ 357 00:15:12,369 --> 00:15:14,788 ♪ She's mine, mine, mine, mine, mine ♪ 358 00:15:14,788 --> 00:15:16,624 ♪ Mine, mine, mine... ♪ 359 00:15:16,624 --> 00:15:18,167 So, that initial session 360 00:15:18,167 --> 00:15:21,003 with Michael and Paul happens in April. 361 00:15:21,003 --> 00:15:24,048 The actual formal sessions for Thriller 362 00:15:24,048 --> 00:15:25,716 didn't start for a couple months later. 363 00:15:25,716 --> 00:15:30,137 Yeah, Michael, uh, did the demos at-at his home studio. 364 00:15:31,055 --> 00:15:34,558 Quincy invited me to go to Michael's house 365 00:15:34,558 --> 00:15:36,393 to listen to some demos. 366 00:15:36,393 --> 00:15:38,145 What I didn't realize was that 367 00:15:38,145 --> 00:15:40,856 we would be given our own private world premiere 368 00:15:40,856 --> 00:15:43,233 of "Billie Jean," "Beat It," "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'." 369 00:15:43,233 --> 00:15:45,653 ♪ "Beat It" by Michael Jackson ♪ 370 00:15:45,653 --> 00:15:46,862 ♪ Beat it ♪ 371 00:15:46,862 --> 00:15:48,489 ♪ But you're driving me mad ♪ 372 00:15:48,489 --> 00:15:51,951 - ♪ So beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 373 00:15:51,951 --> 00:15:54,787 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 374 00:15:54,787 --> 00:15:58,791 ♪ Showing how funky, strong is your fight ♪ 375 00:15:58,791 --> 00:16:01,877 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 376 00:16:01,877 --> 00:16:05,756 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 377 00:16:05,756 --> 00:16:08,092 ♪ No one wants to be defeated... ♪ 378 00:16:08,092 --> 00:16:10,094 Well, the songwriting process 379 00:16:10,094 --> 00:16:12,805 is something that's very difficult to explain 380 00:16:12,805 --> 00:16:14,390 because it's very spiritual. 381 00:16:14,390 --> 00:16:16,892 ♪ Who's wrong or right, just beat it... ♪ 382 00:16:16,892 --> 00:16:20,688 It's, uh... it really is in the hands of God, 383 00:16:20,688 --> 00:16:23,357 and it's as if it's been written already. 384 00:16:23,357 --> 00:16:24,942 That's the real truth. 385 00:16:24,942 --> 00:16:28,112 As if it's been written in its entirety before you were born 386 00:16:28,112 --> 00:16:30,614 and you're just really the source 387 00:16:30,614 --> 00:16:32,616 through which the songs come. 388 00:16:32,616 --> 00:16:34,493 Really, because they're... 389 00:16:34,493 --> 00:16:37,162 they just fall right into your lap in its entirety. 390 00:16:37,162 --> 00:16:41,792 You don't have to do much, uh, thinking about it. 391 00:16:41,792 --> 00:16:45,963 And I feel guilty having to put my name sometimes on the songs, 392 00:16:45,963 --> 00:16:47,881 but I-I do write them. 393 00:16:47,881 --> 00:16:51,093 I compose them. I write them. I-I do the scoring. 394 00:16:51,093 --> 00:16:53,178 I do the lyrics. I do the melody. 395 00:16:53,178 --> 00:16:56,849 But still it's, uh... it's the work of God. 396 00:16:56,849 --> 00:16:58,183 "Startin' Somethin'" was wild. You know, 397 00:16:58,183 --> 00:17:00,102 he had all this... 398 00:17:00,102 --> 00:17:02,438 ♪ "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' by Michael Jackson ♪ 399 00:17:02,438 --> 00:17:04,773 "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" 400 00:17:04,773 --> 00:17:08,444 has the frenetic percussion of Off the Wall, 401 00:17:08,444 --> 00:17:09,820 which is amazing because 402 00:17:09,820 --> 00:17:12,031 it's like, you have these incredibly tight drum grooves 403 00:17:12,031 --> 00:17:14,033 and these programmed beats now. 404 00:17:14,033 --> 00:17:15,993 I think that's why, for-for me, 405 00:17:15,993 --> 00:17:18,412 "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" is still my favorite. 406 00:17:18,412 --> 00:17:22,666 I remember just, uh, uh, being able to go out and do the demo 407 00:17:22,666 --> 00:17:24,126 - at Hayvenhurst, yeah. - Mm-hmm. 408 00:17:24,126 --> 00:17:25,919 He had it before we got there, 409 00:17:25,919 --> 00:17:27,337 and then h-he just, you know, 410 00:17:27,337 --> 00:17:29,006 shared it with us and we worked out the parts. 411 00:17:29,006 --> 00:17:30,382 And we just had to perfect it, 412 00:17:30,382 --> 00:17:32,301 because it's so rhythmic and all that. 413 00:17:32,301 --> 00:17:34,386 And so he knew the sound, he knew the... 414 00:17:34,386 --> 00:17:38,182 the rhythm that he wanted to hear and everything, 415 00:17:38,182 --> 00:17:40,225 so like I said, we were quick. 416 00:17:40,225 --> 00:17:42,853 - ♪ Too low to get under ♪ - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 417 00:17:42,853 --> 00:17:44,396 ♪ Stuck in the middle ♪ 418 00:17:44,396 --> 00:17:46,190 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ And the pain is thunder ♪ 419 00:17:46,190 --> 00:17:48,108 - ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Hard to get over ♪ 420 00:17:57,451 --> 00:18:00,621 There's a certain approach, you know, you want to take to... 421 00:18:00,621 --> 00:18:02,664 you know, to emphasize the feeling. 422 00:18:02,664 --> 00:18:08,087 I would say that Quincy helped glue those elements together 423 00:18:08,087 --> 00:18:09,922 and make an arc out of the progression 424 00:18:09,922 --> 00:18:14,259 of how the song started to... to the vamp at the end, 425 00:18:14,259 --> 00:18:16,470 and made it seamless, you know, including horns, 426 00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:18,597 which, of course, at-at first thought, 427 00:18:18,597 --> 00:18:20,057 would be considered too jazzy, 428 00:18:20,057 --> 00:18:22,226 but they blended perfectly well in the song later on. 429 00:18:22,226 --> 00:18:24,436 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ Too high to get over ♪ 430 00:18:24,436 --> 00:18:26,396 ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ You're too low to get under ♪ 431 00:18:26,396 --> 00:18:28,607 ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ You're stuck in the middle ♪ 432 00:18:28,607 --> 00:18:31,401 ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ And the pain is thunder... ♪ 433 00:18:31,401 --> 00:18:35,572 But there's still that... 434 00:18:41,078 --> 00:18:42,913 And then at the end, 435 00:18:42,913 --> 00:18:44,373 when it goes a cappella to... 436 00:18:44,373 --> 00:18:46,333 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 437 00:18:46,333 --> 00:18:48,502 That, as a DJ... that is your best friend 438 00:18:48,502 --> 00:18:52,923 because then you start to mix in your next record 439 00:18:52,923 --> 00:18:54,883 and blending in whatever the biggest songs you have. 440 00:18:54,883 --> 00:18:56,593 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 441 00:18:58,887 --> 00:19:00,514 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 442 00:19:00,514 --> 00:19:02,391 - ♪ Hee, hee, hee ♪ - ♪ Mama se, mama sa ♪ 443 00:19:02,391 --> 00:19:04,226 - ♪ Ma-ma coo sa ♪ - ♪ Help me sing it ♪ 444 00:19:04,226 --> 00:19:05,978 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 445 00:19:05,978 --> 00:19:07,604 - ♪ Hoo, hoo ♪ - ♪ Mama se, mama sa ♪ 446 00:19:07,604 --> 00:19:09,273 - ♪ Ma-ma coo sa ♪ - ♪ Hee, hee ♪ 447 00:19:09,273 --> 00:19:10,983 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 448 00:19:10,983 --> 00:19:12,609 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 449 00:19:12,609 --> 00:19:14,278 - ♪ Sing it to the world ♪ - ♪ Mama se, mama sa... ♪ 450 00:19:14,278 --> 00:19:15,863 As a matter of fact, I asked him 451 00:19:15,863 --> 00:19:17,322 what "mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa" meant, 452 00:19:17,322 --> 00:19:19,283 you know, while it was going down. 453 00:19:19,283 --> 00:19:20,951 He... "Well, it don't mean nothing. 454 00:19:20,951 --> 00:19:22,286 Just sing it, you know," and... 455 00:19:22,286 --> 00:19:23,912 - Yeah, and there it is, 456 00:19:23,912 --> 00:19:25,956 because that was difficult to do, I'm telling you. 457 00:19:25,956 --> 00:19:28,292 He said, "I like singing with you all 458 00:19:28,292 --> 00:19:30,377 because you sound like me." 459 00:19:30,377 --> 00:19:33,005 He always thought our voices blended so well 460 00:19:33,005 --> 00:19:35,132 - with-with his. - Mm-hmm. 461 00:19:35,132 --> 00:19:36,466 "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" 462 00:19:36,466 --> 00:19:38,302 was like... it was like an opportunity 463 00:19:38,302 --> 00:19:40,095 to kind of get into his mind. 464 00:19:40,095 --> 00:19:44,183 And this idea of, like, "Billie Jean" 465 00:19:44,183 --> 00:19:47,102 and the fact that he was living kind of in this... 466 00:19:47,102 --> 00:19:48,312 this world where 467 00:19:48,312 --> 00:19:50,189 you didn't really know what was real or wasn't. 468 00:19:50,189 --> 00:19:51,940 ♪ "Billie Jean" by Michael Jackson ♪ 469 00:19:51,940 --> 00:19:54,109 ♪ She told me I was a lonely man ♪ 470 00:19:54,109 --> 00:19:55,527 ♪ And I felt sad ♪ 471 00:19:55,527 --> 00:19:58,238 ♪ She called my name, then she said hello ♪ 472 00:19:58,238 --> 00:20:00,866 ♪ All them who died ♪ 473 00:20:00,866 --> 00:20:04,912 ♪ And I sit in a cup in a ride ♪ 474 00:20:07,414 --> 00:20:09,583 ♪ It seems that you ♪ 475 00:20:15,881 --> 00:20:17,382 My mom had just bought 476 00:20:17,382 --> 00:20:19,927 a stereo system, and it had lights. 477 00:20:19,927 --> 00:20:21,136 The drums kicked in. 478 00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:26,683 And then... [imitates bass line] 479 00:20:26,683 --> 00:20:28,393 I mean... [chuckles] What? 480 00:20:28,393 --> 00:20:31,688 And I ran down the hallway just to hear closely 481 00:20:31,688 --> 00:20:34,858 what was... what was playing, what this record was. 482 00:20:34,858 --> 00:20:36,818 And it was "Billie Jean," and it was on 483 00:20:36,818 --> 00:20:38,237 and poppin' from there. 484 00:20:38,237 --> 00:20:41,740 It's actually kind of nasty, and you can hear the room mics 485 00:20:41,740 --> 00:20:43,158 and it's dirtier than you think. 486 00:20:43,158 --> 00:20:44,576 You know, you always have that moment where 487 00:20:44,576 --> 00:20:46,495 you fall in love with an artist for the first time. 488 00:20:46,495 --> 00:20:49,539 Really truly great, legendary artists, 489 00:20:49,539 --> 00:20:53,085 you have that same feeling over and over and over again. 490 00:20:53,085 --> 00:20:54,711 "Billie Jean" was that moment 491 00:20:54,711 --> 00:20:57,756 where I fell in love with Michael all over again. 492 00:21:03,095 --> 00:21:04,513 When Michael sings it, 493 00:21:04,513 --> 00:21:09,226 he puts the funk into it the way he does all the... 494 00:21:11,436 --> 00:21:13,939 ...and all the little stuff that he puts in. 495 00:21:13,939 --> 00:21:15,399 That gives it the syncopation. 496 00:21:15,399 --> 00:21:18,026 And if I just go... 497 00:21:18,026 --> 00:21:21,613 ...he's gonna go... 498 00:21:22,447 --> 00:21:25,117 ♪ She was more like a beauty queen ♪ 499 00:21:25,117 --> 00:21:26,660 - ♪ From a movie scene ♪ 500 00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:28,412 ♪ I said, "Don't mind ♪ 501 00:21:28,412 --> 00:21:31,290 ♪ But what do you mean I am the one ♪ 502 00:21:31,290 --> 00:21:36,336 ♪ Who will dance on the floor in the round?" ♪ 503 00:21:37,212 --> 00:21:39,798 ♪ She said I am the one ♪ 504 00:21:39,798 --> 00:21:43,343 ♪ Who will dance on the floor in the round ♪ 505 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,516 ♪ She told me her name was Billie Jean ♪ 506 00:21:49,516 --> 00:21:51,018 ♪ As she caused a scene ♪ 507 00:21:51,018 --> 00:21:52,436 ♪ Then every head turned ♪ 508 00:21:52,436 --> 00:21:54,146 ♪ With eyes that dreamed... ♪ 509 00:21:54,146 --> 00:21:56,815 Everybody loves toxic R and B. 510 00:21:56,815 --> 00:21:59,985 "Billie Jean is not my lover. She's just a girl 511 00:21:59,985 --> 00:22:01,320 who claims that I am the one"? 512 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,196 Yeah, that's like, was it his side chick? 513 00:22:03,196 --> 00:22:05,449 You know what I'm saying? Was it some chick who, 514 00:22:05,449 --> 00:22:07,534 you know, he had an encounter with and got pregnant? 515 00:22:07,534 --> 00:22:09,953 Is this real, or is this some delusional fan 516 00:22:09,953 --> 00:22:12,539 who is saying that, you know, 517 00:22:12,539 --> 00:22:14,958 they had an encounter that they did or didn't? 518 00:22:14,958 --> 00:22:16,376 All of those things just led you 519 00:22:16,376 --> 00:22:20,130 to be more intrigued about an artist, right? 520 00:22:20,130 --> 00:22:23,467 But it was, like, urgent and R and B. 521 00:22:23,467 --> 00:22:25,135 It was... it was crazy. It was a... 522 00:22:25,135 --> 00:22:27,179 an amazing R and B record, and his lyrics-- 523 00:22:27,179 --> 00:22:29,556 you know, "The kid is not my son," I mean... 524 00:22:29,556 --> 00:22:32,601 ♪ The kid is not my son... ♪ 525 00:22:32,601 --> 00:22:34,394 "The kid is not my son." 526 00:22:34,394 --> 00:22:37,564 That first... well, that... we-we like bad boys, 527 00:22:37,564 --> 00:22:39,191 so that made us love him some more. 528 00:22:39,191 --> 00:22:42,110 And then when I saw the video, I was losing my mind. 529 00:22:42,110 --> 00:22:43,945 I lost my voice, screaming. 530 00:22:43,945 --> 00:22:46,156 You know, it was about "Billie Jean." 531 00:22:46,156 --> 00:22:48,784 You know, him stepping on, you know, the-the pavement, 532 00:22:48,784 --> 00:22:52,537 it glowing and, you know, making you feel the magic. 533 00:22:52,537 --> 00:22:55,582 I'd storyboarded that, uh, he would walk down the, uh... 534 00:22:55,582 --> 00:22:57,626 the street and the paving stones would light up. 535 00:22:57,626 --> 00:22:59,503 And I showed him which 11 paving stones 536 00:22:59,503 --> 00:23:01,129 we could afford to have light up 537 00:23:01,129 --> 00:23:03,173 and therefore which ones couldn't. 538 00:23:03,173 --> 00:23:04,424 And he looked carefully at them, 539 00:23:04,424 --> 00:23:06,385 and-and I said, "Well, should we rehearse it?" 540 00:23:06,385 --> 00:23:08,678 And he said, "No, let-let's just do it." 541 00:23:08,678 --> 00:23:11,306 And we ran the playback, the music, 542 00:23:11,306 --> 00:23:14,017 and the chorus kicked in for "Billie Jean," 543 00:23:14,017 --> 00:23:16,520 and he began his dance movement 544 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,397 down that street, and I'll never forget it. 545 00:23:18,397 --> 00:23:20,232 The-the camera actually steamed up. 546 00:23:20,232 --> 00:23:22,901 I could hardly even see him through the-the eyepiece 547 00:23:22,901 --> 00:23:24,111 because it was 548 00:23:24,111 --> 00:23:26,029 so exciting to watch. 549 00:23:26,029 --> 00:23:28,407 Michael is doing so much moving 550 00:23:28,407 --> 00:23:31,618 that Steve isn't even getting. 551 00:23:31,618 --> 00:23:33,412 There are several shots in "Billie Jean" 552 00:23:33,412 --> 00:23:36,915 where he's just being shot from the waist up 553 00:23:36,915 --> 00:23:39,918 and you can just see him doing all kinds of stuff. 554 00:23:39,918 --> 00:23:41,002 And it's like, 555 00:23:41,002 --> 00:23:42,379 "Why aren't you getting that?" 556 00:23:42,379 --> 00:23:44,423 But that's just how new 557 00:23:44,423 --> 00:23:48,468 the medium was to capturing dancers. 558 00:23:48,468 --> 00:23:50,387 Michael opened the door for that. 559 00:23:50,387 --> 00:23:51,930 ♪ I am the one... ♪ 560 00:23:51,930 --> 00:23:54,224 And every time they just kept freezing him in those brackets, 561 00:23:54,224 --> 00:23:56,393 and every time he'd walk, they froze him. 562 00:23:56,393 --> 00:23:57,853 And every time he said something, 563 00:23:57,853 --> 00:24:00,981 I just was losing my mind 'cause I loved him so much. 564 00:24:00,981 --> 00:24:02,315 But on "Billie Jean," 565 00:24:02,315 --> 00:24:05,485 we was like, "Oh, he is super-duper-duper sexy." 566 00:24:05,485 --> 00:24:08,155 ♪ Not my lover ♪ - ♪ Don't call me, Billie Jean ♪ 567 00:24:08,155 --> 00:24:10,365 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover... ♪ 568 00:24:10,365 --> 00:24:13,618 MTV refused to play "Billie Jean." 569 00:24:13,618 --> 00:24:16,204 They said, "Well, our network appeals to, 570 00:24:16,204 --> 00:24:17,622 you know, white teenagers, 571 00:24:17,622 --> 00:24:20,625 and this just really doesn't fit our format." 572 00:24:20,625 --> 00:24:22,127 ♪ hard rock guitar riff ♪ 573 00:24:22,127 --> 00:24:23,920 This is it. 574 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,173 Welcome to MTV Music Television. 575 00:24:26,173 --> 00:24:27,382 I'm Mark Goodman. 576 00:24:27,382 --> 00:24:29,050 - I'm Martha Quinn. - I'm Alan Hunter. 577 00:24:29,050 --> 00:24:31,178 You'll never look at music the same way again. 578 00:24:31,178 --> 00:24:32,804 Turn it on! Leave it on! 579 00:24:32,804 --> 00:24:36,266 America, see the music you want to see. 580 00:24:36,266 --> 00:24:37,851 I want my MTV. 581 00:24:37,851 --> 00:24:40,228 Some prominent Black musicians are complaining 582 00:24:40,228 --> 00:24:42,397 that they are being left out of the video market, 583 00:24:42,397 --> 00:24:45,192 specifically the Music Television cable operation. 584 00:24:45,192 --> 00:24:47,944 It-it occurred to me, having watched MTV 585 00:24:47,944 --> 00:24:50,614 over the last few months, um, that it's-it's got a... 586 00:24:50,614 --> 00:24:53,950 it's a solid enterprise and it's got a lot going for it. 587 00:24:53,950 --> 00:24:56,661 I'm just floored by the fact that there's so many Bl... 588 00:24:56,661 --> 00:24:58,955 so few Black artists featured on it. 589 00:24:58,955 --> 00:25:00,290 Why is that? 590 00:25:00,290 --> 00:25:03,627 The fact is, quite frankly, we're a rock and roll station. 591 00:25:03,627 --> 00:25:07,339 MTV will deny this till the world ends, 592 00:25:07,339 --> 00:25:10,675 that they had nothing against Black artists. 593 00:25:10,675 --> 00:25:14,721 But they refused to, uh, play Michael. 594 00:25:14,721 --> 00:25:17,224 In 1975, I was named 595 00:25:17,224 --> 00:25:19,518 president of the CBS Records Group 596 00:25:19,518 --> 00:25:22,437 and a vice president of CBS, Inc. 597 00:25:22,437 --> 00:25:26,316 No single record changed the business and my life 598 00:25:26,316 --> 00:25:30,153 as powerfully as Michael Jackson's Thriller. 599 00:25:30,153 --> 00:25:32,113 I screamed bloody murder 600 00:25:32,113 --> 00:25:34,741 when MTV refused to air his videos. 601 00:25:34,741 --> 00:25:37,494 They argued that their format, white rock, 602 00:25:37,494 --> 00:25:39,371 excluded Michael's music. 603 00:25:39,371 --> 00:25:41,623 I argued they were racist assholes. 604 00:25:41,623 --> 00:25:43,875 So Walter Yetnikoff said, 605 00:25:43,875 --> 00:25:45,085 "Really? Okay. 606 00:25:45,085 --> 00:25:46,503 If you don't play Michael Jackson, 607 00:25:46,503 --> 00:25:50,006 I'm pulling Billy Joel and everybody else that I have, 608 00:25:50,006 --> 00:25:51,258 uh, off of MTV." 609 00:25:51,258 --> 00:25:53,343 I've never been more forceful 610 00:25:53,343 --> 00:25:54,761 or obnoxious. 611 00:25:54,761 --> 00:25:56,680 I've also never been as effective. 612 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,849 With added pressure from Quincy Jones, they caved in, 613 00:25:59,849 --> 00:26:04,354 and in doing so, the MTV color line came crashing down. 614 00:26:04,354 --> 00:26:06,064 One of the most important 615 00:26:06,064 --> 00:26:08,942 things about Thriller was the doors that it opened 616 00:26:08,942 --> 00:26:12,529 for other artists to have the opportunity 617 00:26:12,529 --> 00:26:14,197 to get on the pop charts. 618 00:26:14,197 --> 00:26:17,242 Tina Turner. My God, Private Dancer. 619 00:26:17,242 --> 00:26:18,535 That's who it was. 620 00:26:18,535 --> 00:26:21,037 It was Tina, it was Lionel, it was Whitney, 621 00:26:21,037 --> 00:26:23,415 it was Michael and Prince. 622 00:26:23,415 --> 00:26:25,417 Revenues could just be crazy. 623 00:26:25,417 --> 00:26:27,836 ♪ quiet, hypnotic music ♪ 624 00:26:27,836 --> 00:26:30,255 Thriller changes the dynamic 625 00:26:30,255 --> 00:26:31,840 and the culture. 626 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,634 Michael shows the way that this is possible. 627 00:26:34,634 --> 00:26:36,636 Yeah, I-I grew up, uh, 628 00:26:36,636 --> 00:26:40,432 during the time that Thriller was released, 629 00:26:40,432 --> 00:26:44,603 and MTV was just becoming a really big thing. 630 00:26:44,603 --> 00:26:47,689 I remember almost more vividly 631 00:26:47,689 --> 00:26:51,526 the amazing storytelling through the videos, 632 00:26:51,526 --> 00:26:54,029 which is pretty interesting 'cause I think here we are 633 00:26:54,029 --> 00:26:57,699 40 years later, and the music and the video 634 00:26:57,699 --> 00:27:01,202 is coming to life again for the next generation 635 00:27:01,202 --> 00:27:02,370 on TikTok. 636 00:27:02,370 --> 00:27:05,123 Michael Jackson's music has been available 637 00:27:05,123 --> 00:27:08,126 on TikTok since August 2020. 638 00:27:08,126 --> 00:27:10,587 I think there's a real rebirth 639 00:27:10,587 --> 00:27:14,799 of the music and the video from these songs on the album. 640 00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:18,136 And it is this new generation that's being exposed 641 00:27:18,136 --> 00:27:20,680 or engaging with the music. 642 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,642 There are about ten million 643 00:27:23,642 --> 00:27:26,561 video creations on TikTok right now 644 00:27:26,561 --> 00:27:29,147 that include music from Thriller. 645 00:27:29,147 --> 00:27:32,400 There are 17 billion views 646 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,779 of those ten million videos that exist. 647 00:27:35,779 --> 00:27:40,575 There are about two billion likes on those videos, 648 00:27:40,575 --> 00:27:42,661 so people putting a little thumbs-up 649 00:27:42,661 --> 00:27:46,498 or sharing or doing something to say, "I'm excited about this. 650 00:27:46,498 --> 00:27:49,084 I'm engaging with this-this music." 651 00:27:49,084 --> 00:27:50,502 Pretty massive numbers. 652 00:27:50,502 --> 00:27:52,253 They're hearing it for the first time. 653 00:27:52,253 --> 00:27:53,380 They're-they're like... 654 00:27:53,380 --> 00:27:54,673 You know, it's-it's the same feeling 655 00:27:54,673 --> 00:27:56,800 we maybe had when we watched the MTV video 656 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,052 for "Thriller" or "Beat It." 657 00:27:59,552 --> 00:28:02,639 They're having that same experience 40 years later, 658 00:28:02,639 --> 00:28:04,516 but rather than just watch, they're actually 659 00:28:04,516 --> 00:28:08,895 then making something to engage with that music. 660 00:28:10,814 --> 00:28:12,524 I was kind of upset about 661 00:28:12,524 --> 00:28:16,695 the news I heard about MTV and how they weren't showing Blacks, 662 00:28:16,695 --> 00:28:18,196 and that kind of hurt me. 663 00:28:18,196 --> 00:28:21,449 So I wanted to do something that was so powerful, 664 00:28:21,449 --> 00:28:26,037 so strong that everybody would have to show it. 665 00:28:26,037 --> 00:28:28,665 But I wanted to tell a strong story. 666 00:28:28,665 --> 00:28:30,583 The story had to sell itself. 667 00:28:30,583 --> 00:28:33,545 And what... these so-called videos weren't doing that. 668 00:28:33,545 --> 00:28:35,880 They were terrible. They were just a lot of nothing 669 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,841 put together just to sell a song. 670 00:28:37,841 --> 00:28:39,592 I wanted my things to be powerful. 671 00:28:39,592 --> 00:28:41,511 I wanted to stand out from everything else 672 00:28:41,511 --> 00:28:43,555 that when you see it, you run to the set 673 00:28:43,555 --> 00:28:45,432 and you're glued to it, watching it. 674 00:28:45,432 --> 00:28:46,975 I wanted quality. I wanted excellence. 675 00:28:46,975 --> 00:28:50,311 I wanted the best. I wanted to perfect perfection. 676 00:28:50,311 --> 00:28:52,105 One thing that I can 677 00:28:52,105 --> 00:28:53,189 always say about Michael 678 00:28:53,189 --> 00:28:55,734 is that you felt like there was a sense of culture. 679 00:28:55,734 --> 00:28:57,944 And the culture would span all the way 680 00:28:57,944 --> 00:29:02,699 from kind of like this Broadway, you know, more theatrical world, 681 00:29:02,699 --> 00:29:05,744 and then there was this other element that was cultural, 682 00:29:05,744 --> 00:29:07,579 that was almost like gangsters. 683 00:29:07,579 --> 00:29:09,748 ♪ "Beat It" by Michael Jackson ♪ 684 00:29:19,841 --> 00:29:21,760 You know, when you look at "Beat It" 685 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,763 and the idea that the people of that era felt like, 686 00:29:24,763 --> 00:29:26,973 "Oh, he's speaking to us and with us. 687 00:29:26,973 --> 00:29:29,893 He's rocking with us. He's making music for us. 688 00:29:29,893 --> 00:29:32,270 We can dance to his music." 689 00:29:45,784 --> 00:29:47,952 It was an incredible move to decide, 690 00:29:47,952 --> 00:29:50,663 "We're gonna have a rock and roll record 691 00:29:50,663 --> 00:29:51,873 on this thing." 692 00:29:51,873 --> 00:29:54,501 "Beat It" was straight up rock and roll. 693 00:29:54,501 --> 00:29:56,044 Michael's idea with "Beat It" 694 00:29:56,044 --> 00:29:58,379 was to distance himself from Off the Wall, 695 00:29:58,379 --> 00:29:59,923 from the dance, disco. 696 00:29:59,923 --> 00:30:01,382 And Michael wanted to stretch. 697 00:30:01,382 --> 00:30:02,926 Creatively, he wanted to stretch. 698 00:30:02,926 --> 00:30:05,386 They wanted a crossover hit across the board. 699 00:30:05,386 --> 00:30:07,514 Rock, R and B, pop. 700 00:30:07,514 --> 00:30:10,809 They called me to come in with Michael and Quincy 701 00:30:10,809 --> 00:30:14,270 to do the... 702 00:30:14,813 --> 00:30:16,689 They want to go rock and roll, let's do it. 703 00:30:16,689 --> 00:30:19,984 You know, so I did it with all... you know, all-all that, 704 00:30:19,984 --> 00:30:21,694 doubled it and made it sound huge. 705 00:30:21,694 --> 00:30:23,780 And then I played the bass on it as well. 706 00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:25,782 I did play bass on that record as well. 707 00:30:25,782 --> 00:30:28,576 So I sat with them and made that swing, 708 00:30:28,576 --> 00:30:30,453 and when Michael was dancing in the room, 709 00:30:30,453 --> 00:30:31,704 I knew I was in the pocket. 710 00:30:31,704 --> 00:30:33,081 When he wrote "Beat It," 711 00:30:33,081 --> 00:30:35,917 he said, "I want a kind of guitar player on here 712 00:30:35,917 --> 00:30:41,089 that will attract young, white, teenage males." 713 00:30:41,089 --> 00:30:42,257 Eddie Van Halen. 714 00:30:42,757 --> 00:30:44,926 He said, "Well, what do you want me to do?" 715 00:30:44,926 --> 00:30:46,219 And Quincy said, "Well, 716 00:30:46,219 --> 00:30:47,512 I want you to be you. 717 00:30:47,512 --> 00:30:48,888 That's you right there." And he pointed 718 00:30:48,888 --> 00:30:50,849 to the famous, you know, Strat that he had. 719 00:30:50,849 --> 00:30:53,560 And he said, "I'm not gonna tell you what to play. 720 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:54,727 You go be you." 721 00:30:54,727 --> 00:30:56,020 I mean, Eddie ripped 722 00:30:56,020 --> 00:30:57,814 these solos off one after the other. 723 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,872 I remember, like, hearing 724 00:31:13,872 --> 00:31:15,540 the sound coming from Studio A, 725 00:31:15,540 --> 00:31:17,375 where he was doing the-the solo. 726 00:31:17,375 --> 00:31:18,626 It was so loud. 727 00:31:18,626 --> 00:31:19,919 I could... I just... 728 00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:20,962 It was just so loud. 729 00:31:20,962 --> 00:31:23,965 Bruce Swedien and Quincy brilliantly 730 00:31:23,965 --> 00:31:25,842 edited that solo together. 731 00:31:25,842 --> 00:31:27,802 I mean, I think I probably just loved it 732 00:31:27,802 --> 00:31:29,679 'cause, at that moment, it was probably everything 733 00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:31,973 that I ever loved in one song, you know? 734 00:31:31,973 --> 00:31:34,142 I've done way more time googling 735 00:31:34,142 --> 00:31:38,730 Lukather's tone on "Beat It" than, um, Eddie Van Halen's, 736 00:31:38,730 --> 00:31:40,940 because it's the tone that drives 737 00:31:40,940 --> 00:31:42,400 the whole record-- that's the riff. 738 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,487 It's the perfect way that, like, a rock guitar could ever sit 739 00:31:46,487 --> 00:31:48,907 over programmed drums in a... in a... 740 00:31:48,907 --> 00:31:50,491 like, a funky groove. 741 00:31:50,491 --> 00:31:52,035 I thought his videos were incredible. 742 00:31:52,035 --> 00:31:53,912 I mean, first off, the guy could dance. 743 00:31:53,912 --> 00:31:55,246 I mean, just being in the room, 744 00:31:55,246 --> 00:31:57,707 watching him groove while we're playing. 745 00:31:57,707 --> 00:31:58,875 That short film-- 746 00:31:58,875 --> 00:32:00,209 you see, this whole movie, 747 00:32:00,209 --> 00:32:02,462 it's about a big fight that's about to happen, right, 748 00:32:02,462 --> 00:32:03,922 between two rival gangs, right? 749 00:32:03,922 --> 00:32:06,591 ♪ "Beat It" by Michael Jackson ♪ 750 00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:17,936 ♪ Beat it... ♪ 751 00:32:17,936 --> 00:32:20,730 He saw value in street culture. 752 00:32:20,730 --> 00:32:22,565 He wanted to try to figure out a way 753 00:32:22,565 --> 00:32:24,233 on how to incorporate it, and... 754 00:32:24,233 --> 00:32:26,653 and the beginning of it was "Beat It." 755 00:32:26,653 --> 00:32:28,279 The people that you see 756 00:32:28,279 --> 00:32:32,992 in that film are a mixture of dancers and street cats. 757 00:32:32,992 --> 00:32:34,702 And not only that 758 00:32:34,702 --> 00:32:37,789 is that you actually had real gangsters on set. 759 00:32:37,789 --> 00:32:39,582 Like, real Bloods and Crips 760 00:32:39,582 --> 00:32:41,960 and Vatos and all that, like, for real. 761 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,753 There was such a magic 762 00:32:43,753 --> 00:32:45,171 in Michael and his movement. 763 00:32:45,171 --> 00:32:48,341 ♪ No one wants to be defeated, oh, Lord ♪ 764 00:32:48,341 --> 00:32:51,803 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 765 00:32:51,803 --> 00:32:54,931 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 766 00:32:54,931 --> 00:32:56,599 ♪ Just beat it... ♪ 767 00:32:56,599 --> 00:32:57,767 You had B-boying 768 00:32:57,767 --> 00:32:59,435 that was going on in New York. 769 00:32:59,435 --> 00:33:00,728 You had popping and locking 770 00:33:00,728 --> 00:33:02,355 that was going down over here in California, 771 00:33:02,355 --> 00:33:05,858 and strutting and-and robotting, all them. 772 00:33:05,858 --> 00:33:07,360 So the guy that's vibrating 773 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,405 in the "Beat It" short film with the... with the glasses on, 774 00:33:10,405 --> 00:33:11,739 his name is Robot Dane. 775 00:33:11,739 --> 00:33:13,199 This is the first ever 776 00:33:13,199 --> 00:33:16,202 street dance wave of the United States of America. 777 00:33:16,202 --> 00:33:19,455 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 778 00:33:19,455 --> 00:33:20,748 ♪ It doesn't matter... ♪ 779 00:33:20,748 --> 00:33:22,375 The most relevant scene 780 00:33:22,375 --> 00:33:27,213 at the time, which either was breakdancing, locking, 781 00:33:27,213 --> 00:33:30,008 popping, waving, whatever it might have been, 782 00:33:30,008 --> 00:33:31,968 he's pushing the envelope forward, 783 00:33:31,968 --> 00:33:34,846 he's teaching us some things, he's informing us as artists, 784 00:33:34,846 --> 00:33:37,056 but also, too, as performers, 785 00:33:37,056 --> 00:33:40,768 he's letting us know that, "Yo, I want to be the baddest." 786 00:33:40,768 --> 00:33:42,895 As a fan or a critic, 787 00:33:42,895 --> 00:33:45,898 you're always looking for breathtaking moments, 788 00:33:45,898 --> 00:33:47,066 the time when you say, 789 00:33:47,066 --> 00:33:48,484 "I've never seen anything like that. 790 00:33:48,484 --> 00:33:51,821 I'm probably not gonna see anything like that again." 791 00:33:51,821 --> 00:33:53,448 The Motown show, 792 00:33:53,448 --> 00:33:55,992 that's what I think was the most important step 793 00:33:55,992 --> 00:34:00,538 in the whole Thriller process of making him the superstar. 794 00:34:00,538 --> 00:34:03,833 ♪ And I'll be there ♪ 795 00:34:03,833 --> 00:34:06,753 - ♪ Whoo! ♪ 796 00:34:08,671 --> 00:34:10,256 Bob Jones was, uh, 797 00:34:10,256 --> 00:34:13,301 vice president of publicity at Motown. 798 00:34:13,301 --> 00:34:14,469 He says, 799 00:34:14,469 --> 00:34:16,763 "We're doing a Motown show." 800 00:34:16,763 --> 00:34:21,976 I rented a tuxedo, and, uh, I went to the show. 801 00:34:21,976 --> 00:34:23,269 People just went crazy. 802 00:34:23,269 --> 00:34:25,354 I was home in front of the TV. 803 00:34:25,354 --> 00:34:28,441 Waiting for him to take us there. 804 00:34:28,441 --> 00:34:30,026 First, we didn't know what he was gonna do, 805 00:34:30,026 --> 00:34:31,861 because he was up there with his brothers. 806 00:34:31,861 --> 00:34:34,030 The Jacksons leave, 807 00:34:34,030 --> 00:34:36,866 the brothers leave, and Mike stays out there. 808 00:34:37,950 --> 00:34:39,243 And in the audience, 809 00:34:39,243 --> 00:34:41,496 you could hear just kind of like: 810 00:34:41,496 --> 00:34:44,665 "What's-what's getting ready to happen now?" 811 00:34:50,254 --> 00:34:53,257 And, you know, Mike goes through the whole... 812 00:34:53,257 --> 00:34:55,635 "Those were some great times. I love the-the old songs." 813 00:34:55,635 --> 00:34:57,220 You know, th-those were good songs. 814 00:34:57,220 --> 00:34:59,180 I-I like those songs a lot, 815 00:34:59,180 --> 00:35:02,975 but, especially, I like... 816 00:35:02,975 --> 00:35:04,977 - "Billie Jean"! 817 00:35:04,977 --> 00:35:06,687 - ...the new songs. 818 00:35:06,687 --> 00:35:08,856 And then here comes 819 00:35:08,856 --> 00:35:10,149 "Billie Jean." 820 00:35:18,741 --> 00:35:21,786 The tape that you can see 821 00:35:21,786 --> 00:35:23,246 of "Billie Jean" 822 00:35:23,246 --> 00:35:28,000 and the stuff you see going on in the audience, 823 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,547 it does not capture what was happening in that crowd. 824 00:35:32,547 --> 00:35:35,007 These people were going 825 00:35:35,007 --> 00:35:37,135 absolutely berserk. 826 00:35:37,635 --> 00:35:40,888 ♪ Who will dance on the floor in the round? ♪ 827 00:35:40,888 --> 00:35:43,558 Mike just turned it the fuck out. 828 00:35:43,558 --> 00:35:47,562 ♪ People always told me, "Be careful of what you do ♪ 829 00:35:47,562 --> 00:35:50,857 ♪ Don't go around breakin' young girls' hearts" ♪ 830 00:35:50,857 --> 00:35:52,150 ♪ Hee-hee ♪ 831 00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:54,861 ♪ And Mother always told me... ♪ 832 00:35:54,861 --> 00:35:58,030 I mean, he just laid a bomb on that room. 833 00:35:58,030 --> 00:36:00,741 ♪ "'Cause the lie becomes the truth," hey, hey ♪ 834 00:36:00,741 --> 00:36:03,202 ♪ Billie Jean is not my... ♪ 835 00:36:03,202 --> 00:36:04,871 I was at that show 836 00:36:04,871 --> 00:36:06,289 at the Pasadena Civic Auditorium. 837 00:36:06,289 --> 00:36:08,916 And he's moving different. He's got his own moves now. 838 00:36:08,916 --> 00:36:12,128 He's not so much doing what-what he learned growing up, 839 00:36:12,128 --> 00:36:13,754 and he was excited about it. 840 00:36:13,754 --> 00:36:15,047 ♪ Hee-hee-hee ♪ 841 00:36:16,132 --> 00:36:18,259 We just was happy to see 842 00:36:18,259 --> 00:36:20,303 Michael Jackson perform, period. 843 00:36:20,303 --> 00:36:22,555 Nobody seen the moonwalk coming. 844 00:36:27,727 --> 00:36:28,895 ♪ She says I am... ♪ 845 00:36:28,895 --> 00:36:30,313 He does the moonwalk. 846 00:36:30,313 --> 00:36:32,231 That's the breathtaking moment, okay? 847 00:36:32,231 --> 00:36:34,192 And after the show, I couldn't believe it. 848 00:36:34,192 --> 00:36:36,319 I had to go backstage and to ask somebody, 849 00:36:36,319 --> 00:36:39,363 "Was there a special trick floor? 850 00:36:39,363 --> 00:36:41,240 How did he do that?" 851 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:44,160 You know, this was the performance 852 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,495 that really changed space and time. 853 00:36:46,996 --> 00:36:49,624 A few of his dances, we call 'em timekeepers. 854 00:36:49,624 --> 00:36:52,335 And he created a whole vocabulary of timekeepers, 855 00:36:52,335 --> 00:36:53,961 whether it's with his hip... 856 00:36:56,255 --> 00:36:58,174 ...or with his... you know, his side, 857 00:36:58,174 --> 00:37:00,760 - stomping with the ankle. - That's right. 858 00:37:02,094 --> 00:37:04,764 Or he'll stomp with the foot. 859 00:37:07,308 --> 00:37:09,602 With that, you can sing. 860 00:37:09,602 --> 00:37:10,895 You see what I'm saying? 861 00:37:10,895 --> 00:37:12,188 And it looks like you're dancing. 862 00:37:12,188 --> 00:37:13,481 - But you're really not. - It's an illu... 863 00:37:13,481 --> 00:37:15,149 It's-it's a bit of a trick, right? 864 00:37:15,149 --> 00:37:17,318 And you go... you walk over here. 865 00:37:19,737 --> 00:37:20,905 And switch the mic, 866 00:37:20,905 --> 00:37:23,157 flip the coat, put the hand in the pocket. 867 00:37:23,157 --> 00:37:25,326 You could do a few things here and there that only... 868 00:37:25,326 --> 00:37:28,246 only you can do if you know your song and your music. 869 00:37:30,122 --> 00:37:31,332 You know, when you see 870 00:37:31,332 --> 00:37:34,043 him glide across the floor or pop, 871 00:37:34,043 --> 00:37:35,711 it's a special effect. 872 00:37:35,711 --> 00:37:37,922 He saw magic in that dance. 873 00:37:38,422 --> 00:37:40,675 Look at that-- if you pause each moment, 874 00:37:40,675 --> 00:37:42,218 it's an iconic silhouette. 875 00:37:42,218 --> 00:37:45,346 It's the hat, it's the arms, it's the... 876 00:37:45,346 --> 00:37:47,223 it's the tapping of the leg. 877 00:37:47,223 --> 00:37:49,058 Right? The kick. 878 00:37:52,353 --> 00:37:56,023 To see a Black man standing on his toes, 879 00:37:56,023 --> 00:37:59,402 seeing that and not being conscious of it 880 00:37:59,402 --> 00:38:02,280 has made generations of Black, brown, 881 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,033 white, whatever color kids feel like anything was possible. 882 00:38:06,033 --> 00:38:10,162 It's bigger than I think we, uh, think and acknowledge. 883 00:38:11,872 --> 00:38:13,666 After Mike finished, 884 00:38:13,666 --> 00:38:16,210 the producer had to get on the microphone and say, 885 00:38:16,210 --> 00:38:19,338 "Ladies and gentlemen, please, please, 886 00:38:19,338 --> 00:38:22,216 gather yourselves and take your seats. 887 00:38:22,216 --> 00:38:24,260 We have more show to tape. 888 00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:26,178 There's much more show coming." 889 00:38:26,178 --> 00:38:29,557 And it took a minute for people to get their ties back together 890 00:38:29,557 --> 00:38:32,018 and the women to put their wigs back on. 891 00:38:32,018 --> 00:38:33,978 Okay, I have one question for you. 892 00:38:33,978 --> 00:38:36,022 Who was the unfortunate artist 893 00:38:36,022 --> 00:38:38,691 - who had to come on-- 894 00:38:41,152 --> 00:38:43,696 I don't remember. 895 00:38:47,491 --> 00:38:49,368 I think that was the moment that he had 896 00:38:49,368 --> 00:38:52,371 his breakout moment from the... from the group. 897 00:38:52,371 --> 00:38:55,041 That song, "Billie Jean," 898 00:38:55,041 --> 00:38:58,169 and the way he performed it on that night 899 00:38:58,169 --> 00:39:00,671 set the standard of what it was to be a megastar. 900 00:39:00,671 --> 00:39:03,299 The next day after the show, Fred Astaire called my house. 901 00:39:03,299 --> 00:39:05,009 He said, "I saw the show last night. 902 00:39:05,009 --> 00:39:07,261 I taped it. I watched it twice this morning." 903 00:39:07,261 --> 00:39:08,679 And he said, "You were incredible. 904 00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:10,931 You're a hell of a mover, and you really put them 905 00:39:10,931 --> 00:39:12,933 on their A-S-S," he said. 906 00:39:12,933 --> 00:39:14,101 And I said, "God, thank you. 907 00:39:14,101 --> 00:39:15,811 It's so wonderful for you to say that, 908 00:39:15,811 --> 00:39:17,146 'cause I think you're the best." 909 00:39:17,146 --> 00:39:20,232 And that was my r-reward, 'cause I think he's brilliant. 910 00:39:20,232 --> 00:39:22,318 ♪ tense, hypnotic music ♪ 911 00:39:23,986 --> 00:39:25,488 To a classical dancer, 912 00:39:25,488 --> 00:39:27,490 it's about your line, it's about the shapes 913 00:39:27,490 --> 00:39:29,033 that you're-you're making. 914 00:39:29,033 --> 00:39:30,785 And Michael does that. 915 00:39:30,785 --> 00:39:33,829 That, to me, is very similar to a trained dancer, 916 00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:35,456 even though he wasn't trained. 917 00:39:35,456 --> 00:39:38,834 He would've been the ideal ballet dancer. 918 00:39:38,834 --> 00:39:40,586 The proportions of his body. 919 00:39:40,586 --> 00:39:45,132 He was lean, uh, and long, um, and just had, like, 920 00:39:45,132 --> 00:39:47,426 a natural instinct when he moved. 921 00:39:47,426 --> 00:39:50,971 But there... but there was such precision and clarity. 922 00:39:50,971 --> 00:39:52,515 He was a perfectionist, 923 00:39:52,515 --> 00:39:56,060 and that's what dancers are. 924 00:39:56,060 --> 00:39:59,105 Um, you know, you don't commit that type of time 925 00:39:59,105 --> 00:40:00,856 and sacrifice your body, 926 00:40:00,856 --> 00:40:02,650 the injury, all of those things, 927 00:40:02,650 --> 00:40:06,112 if you don't have the passion for it and the love for it. 928 00:40:06,112 --> 00:40:09,073 And all of that sums up Michael 929 00:40:09,073 --> 00:40:11,742 as a dancer, as a performer, as an artist. 930 00:40:11,742 --> 00:40:15,121 Michael Jackson didn't invent dancing on film, 931 00:40:15,121 --> 00:40:16,330 but his particular synthesis 932 00:40:16,330 --> 00:40:19,083 of the Nicholas Brothers on one hand 933 00:40:19,083 --> 00:40:23,170 and Bob Fosse, Astaire, popping, locking, 934 00:40:23,170 --> 00:40:25,297 moonwalking-- no one had ever 935 00:40:25,297 --> 00:40:27,341 put those elements together before like that. 936 00:40:27,341 --> 00:40:29,468 You can see it all the way through from 937 00:40:29,468 --> 00:40:31,345 "Billie Jean" and "Beat It" and "Thriller," 938 00:40:31,345 --> 00:40:33,514 all the way through to all of these other artists. 939 00:40:33,514 --> 00:40:37,143 Look at MC Hammer, "U Can't Touch This." 940 00:40:37,768 --> 00:40:41,730 Then you go forward to, like, Usher and Justin Timberlake. 941 00:40:42,314 --> 00:40:45,151 And then you go farther forward to Justin Bieber, 942 00:40:45,151 --> 00:40:47,486 Doja Cat, Bruno Mars. 943 00:40:47,486 --> 00:40:49,113 Michael is emulated. 944 00:40:49,113 --> 00:40:52,241 If you look at BTS, you can see it. 945 00:40:53,534 --> 00:40:55,828 I'm all in with BTS. 946 00:40:55,828 --> 00:40:57,121 I love those guys. 947 00:40:57,121 --> 00:41:00,124 Every move they do is all Michael Jackson. 948 00:41:00,124 --> 00:41:02,168 Michael created that. 949 00:41:02,168 --> 00:41:04,587 The entire K-pop wave, 950 00:41:04,587 --> 00:41:06,589 they've all studied Michael 951 00:41:06,589 --> 00:41:11,635 in terms of stage clothes, video clothes and stagecraft. 952 00:41:11,635 --> 00:41:14,472 There's a great video if you watch BTS. 953 00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:16,474 There's a lot of Michael Jackson. 954 00:41:16,474 --> 00:41:17,850 You see it in their dancing. 955 00:41:17,850 --> 00:41:21,103 ♪ 'Cause I, I, I'm in the stars tonight ♪ 956 00:41:21,103 --> 00:41:25,816 ♪ So watch me bring the fire and set the night alight ♪ 957 00:41:25,816 --> 00:41:30,529 ♪ Shining through the city with a little funk and soul ♪ 958 00:41:30,529 --> 00:41:35,075 ♪ So I'm-a light it up like dynamite, whoa-oh-oh ♪ 959 00:41:35,075 --> 00:41:39,121 ♪ Dyn-na-na-na, na-na-na-na-na, na-na-na, life is dynamite ♪ 960 00:41:39,121 --> 00:41:40,289 ♪ Dyn-na-na-na... ♪ 961 00:41:40,289 --> 00:41:42,666 So, the entire K-pop movement, 962 00:41:42,666 --> 00:41:45,419 they're students of the game. 963 00:41:45,419 --> 00:41:48,631 You can look at a number of millennial hip-hop artists-- 964 00:41:48,631 --> 00:41:50,508 Polo G being one of them-- 965 00:41:50,508 --> 00:41:53,761 23, 24 years old, from Chicago, 966 00:41:53,761 --> 00:41:56,222 yet he's very much in trance with Michael Jackson 967 00:41:56,222 --> 00:41:58,098 and he uses Michael Jackson music 968 00:41:58,098 --> 00:41:59,600 and imagery in some of his music. 969 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,685 ♪ Ha, smooth criminal, Mike Jack ♪ 970 00:42:01,685 --> 00:42:04,355 ♪ And I still like to tote a four-five like Mike back ♪ 971 00:42:04,355 --> 00:42:05,940 It was just a night I was riding around, 972 00:42:05,940 --> 00:42:08,192 I was riding in my car, and I was just listening 973 00:42:08,192 --> 00:42:10,027 to Michael Jackson interviews. 974 00:42:10,027 --> 00:42:11,278 I wasn't listening to music. 975 00:42:11,278 --> 00:42:12,696 I was just listening to his interviews. 976 00:42:12,696 --> 00:42:14,448 And I just came up with this idea, like, 977 00:42:14,448 --> 00:42:18,744 maybe I should do, uh, this song and this instrumental 978 00:42:18,744 --> 00:42:21,038 and just really mess everybody head up 979 00:42:21,038 --> 00:42:22,289 'cause I know they wouldn't 980 00:42:22,289 --> 00:42:23,916 be expecting that from a young artist. 981 00:42:23,916 --> 00:42:26,252 ♪ Tell me, Annie, are you okay? Screaming out, "No way" ♪ 982 00:42:26,252 --> 00:42:27,920 ♪ Tell me, Annie, are you okay? ♪ 983 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,174 'Cause I remember my grandma had this same exact album. 984 00:42:32,174 --> 00:42:33,592 My auntie, who was her daughter, 985 00:42:33,592 --> 00:42:35,344 she was a big Michael Jackson fan, 986 00:42:35,344 --> 00:42:37,263 so she always had us listening to him. 987 00:42:37,263 --> 00:42:40,057 So I remember her having this one exactly. 988 00:42:40,057 --> 00:42:41,475 It's pretty wild. 989 00:42:41,475 --> 00:42:45,479 It says how powerful the imagery that Michael created was. 990 00:42:45,479 --> 00:42:47,940 ♪ soft, atmospheric music ♪ 991 00:42:49,608 --> 00:42:51,193 On Thriller, 992 00:42:51,193 --> 00:42:53,195 his life was evolving, you know, 993 00:42:53,195 --> 00:42:56,740 and his vocal approach was different. 994 00:42:56,740 --> 00:42:59,285 There's vocalists, and there's stylists. 995 00:42:59,285 --> 00:43:01,036 Style wins. 996 00:43:01,036 --> 00:43:03,289 When you can hear a person sing 997 00:43:03,289 --> 00:43:06,083 and recognize them fr-from the first couple bars, 998 00:43:06,083 --> 00:43:07,960 you know you got something special. 999 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,169 They have a special tone, 1000 00:43:09,169 --> 00:43:11,213 a special voice, a special delivery. 1001 00:43:11,213 --> 00:43:12,506 Now, Michael had all of that. 1002 00:43:12,506 --> 00:43:15,009 In just the way he loved to dance 1003 00:43:15,009 --> 00:43:16,510 and-and he loved to perform, 1004 00:43:16,510 --> 00:43:20,681 he turned all of that melody that he was so great with 1005 00:43:20,681 --> 00:43:22,349 into percussive melody. 1006 00:43:22,349 --> 00:43:24,602 Well, that's what he did. He would sing drum parts. 1007 00:43:24,602 --> 00:43:26,312 He would sing bass lines. 1008 00:43:26,312 --> 00:43:28,856 He would, uh... all with his rhythmic inflections. 1009 00:43:28,856 --> 00:43:30,399 We call it "drums in your mouth." 1010 00:43:30,399 --> 00:43:32,526 He would beatbox. He was an amazing beatboxer. 1011 00:43:32,526 --> 00:43:35,195 But beatbox with melody and sing, you know, 1012 00:43:35,195 --> 00:43:36,447 not just beatboxing. 1013 00:43:36,447 --> 00:43:38,782 He would, you know, integrate melody with it. 1014 00:43:38,782 --> 00:43:40,659 And you can hear it on "Beat It," you know, 1015 00:43:40,659 --> 00:43:43,495 just the way he would attack each syllable. 1016 00:43:43,495 --> 00:43:46,624 ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ 1017 00:43:46,624 --> 00:43:48,709 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 1018 00:43:50,252 --> 00:43:53,631 ♪ Showin' how funky, strong is your fight ♪ 1019 00:43:53,631 --> 00:43:57,343 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1020 00:43:57,343 --> 00:44:00,054 ♪ Just beat it ♪ 1021 00:44:00,054 --> 00:44:01,347 ♪ Beat it... ♪ 1022 00:44:01,347 --> 00:44:03,682 I think of all of his melodies and his songs, 1023 00:44:03,682 --> 00:44:05,351 and they're completely percussive. 1024 00:44:05,351 --> 00:44:07,686 I mean, they're incredibly rhythmically hooky, 1025 00:44:07,686 --> 00:44:10,648 and, you know, all those songs, and the songs that he wrote 1026 00:44:10,648 --> 00:44:13,025 have these very aggressive staccato rhythms. 1027 00:44:13,025 --> 00:44:16,320 I feel like "Billie Jean" and "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'," 1028 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:17,780 they're really short and stabby. 1029 00:44:17,780 --> 00:44:19,990 They're always, like... there's a tiny bit of, like, 1030 00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:22,451 anger and, like, contempt in the... in the... 1031 00:44:22,451 --> 00:44:24,161 in the way that he's singing and writing. 1032 00:44:24,161 --> 00:44:26,413 ♪ I know I am someone ♪ 1033 00:44:26,413 --> 00:44:28,540 ♪ And let the truth unfurl ♪ 1034 00:44:28,540 --> 00:44:30,542 ♪ No one can hurt you now ♪ 1035 00:44:30,542 --> 00:44:32,503 ♪ Because you know what's true ♪ 1036 00:44:32,503 --> 00:44:34,380 ♪ Yes, I believe in me ♪ 1037 00:44:34,380 --> 00:44:36,423 ♪ So you believe in you ♪ 1038 00:44:36,423 --> 00:44:38,342 ♪ Help me sing it ♪ 1039 00:44:38,342 --> 00:44:39,718 ♪ Hoo-hoo! ♪ 1040 00:44:39,718 --> 00:44:43,639 The greatest soul singers are not afraid to feel the music, 1041 00:44:43,639 --> 00:44:45,891 you know, just do what the music tells them to do. 1042 00:44:45,891 --> 00:44:49,478 For all the new cats, all the new-school cats 1043 00:44:49,478 --> 00:44:52,022 that are going on record and ad-libbing, 1044 00:44:52,022 --> 00:44:53,357 and they say, like... 1045 00:44:56,610 --> 00:44:59,738 I'm sorry, Michael did that first. 1046 00:44:59,738 --> 00:45:01,615 I'll prove it to you. 1047 00:45:01,615 --> 00:45:05,369 ♪ So beat it, just beat it ♪ 1048 00:45:07,413 --> 00:45:08,622 ♪ Beat it ♪ 1049 00:45:10,290 --> 00:45:11,500 ♪ Beat it ♪ 1050 00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:14,253 Why was he yawning on a record, though? 1051 00:45:14,253 --> 00:45:15,546 It shows the freedom 1052 00:45:15,546 --> 00:45:17,798 and how comfortable he felt in the studio 1053 00:45:17,798 --> 00:45:19,508 without worrying about people's judgment 1054 00:45:19,508 --> 00:45:20,843 or, like, "Yo, what's that?" 1055 00:45:20,843 --> 00:45:23,011 Because you know he was bringing the freaking skills. 1056 00:45:23,011 --> 00:45:26,682 You knew he was bringing ultra talent and imagination, 1057 00:45:26,682 --> 00:45:28,517 for him to be like, "You know what? 1058 00:45:28,517 --> 00:45:29,810 I feel like yawning right here." 1059 00:45:32,271 --> 00:45:34,189 ♪ Beat it ♪ 1060 00:45:35,691 --> 00:45:37,818 I-I don't know what that one is. I don't know what... 1061 00:45:37,818 --> 00:45:39,862 I don't... but I love it. 1062 00:45:39,862 --> 00:45:42,114 And I'm listening to his ad-libs. 1063 00:45:42,114 --> 00:45:43,574 He's doing all that... 1064 00:45:45,868 --> 00:45:48,454 He's doing all this rhythmic stuff. 1065 00:45:48,454 --> 00:45:51,081 ♪ "Human Nature" by Michael Jackson ♪ 1066 00:46:03,927 --> 00:46:05,763 Michael had such a clear vision 1067 00:46:05,763 --> 00:46:07,806 of what he wanted, and Quincy, 1068 00:46:07,806 --> 00:46:10,309 he knows who wanted to work with each other. 1069 00:46:10,309 --> 00:46:11,602 There's a number of things going on. 1070 00:46:11,602 --> 00:46:13,771 We have "Beat It," drums being done 1071 00:46:13,771 --> 00:46:15,939 by Jeff Porcaro at Sunset Sound; 1072 00:46:15,939 --> 00:46:19,276 Steve Lukather in Studio B at Westlake; 1073 00:46:19,276 --> 00:46:21,862 Studio A, Quincy and Bruce. 1074 00:46:21,862 --> 00:46:24,364 Quincy's going back and forth between A and B, 1075 00:46:24,364 --> 00:46:25,657 across the hallway. 1076 00:46:25,657 --> 00:46:28,494 Then you add the E.T. storybook album, 1077 00:46:28,494 --> 00:46:31,663 and-and then... then it's just a lot going on. 1078 00:46:31,663 --> 00:46:33,791 Quincy had become friends with Steven Spielberg. 1079 00:46:33,791 --> 00:46:38,587 And I remember one day he... Steven invited Quincy 1080 00:46:38,587 --> 00:46:41,548 down to the set when he was working on E.T. 1081 00:46:41,548 --> 00:46:42,966 And, uh, E.T. was there, 1082 00:46:42,966 --> 00:46:45,552 and the guys who were operating it at the time were there. 1083 00:46:45,552 --> 00:46:47,054 And I think somewhere in the course of it, 1084 00:46:47,054 --> 00:46:48,806 Steven had said to Quincy, said, "You know, 1085 00:46:48,806 --> 00:46:50,891 "I want to do a rec... we should do 1086 00:46:50,891 --> 00:46:52,559 a record of some sort." 1087 00:46:53,060 --> 00:46:54,645 So Quincy, I think, 1088 00:46:54,645 --> 00:46:56,230 came to Michael and-and said, 1089 00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:59,983 "Steven wants us to do the E.T. storybook album," 1090 00:46:59,983 --> 00:47:02,277 where Michael would narrate the story of E.T. 1091 00:47:02,277 --> 00:47:05,531 and Michael would write and sing a song for the album. 1092 00:47:06,031 --> 00:47:07,783 And Michael was a big fan, too, 1093 00:47:07,783 --> 00:47:09,159 so, "Quincy, let's do this." 1094 00:47:09,159 --> 00:47:12,621 So they started doing it in the midst of doing Thriller. 1095 00:47:12,621 --> 00:47:16,625 I've always loved film, and, uh, 1096 00:47:16,625 --> 00:47:18,877 we're talking, in the stage of doing, uh, 1097 00:47:18,877 --> 00:47:22,589 Quincy Jones and myself and Steven Spielberg, 1098 00:47:22,589 --> 00:47:24,633 uh, working on a project. 1099 00:47:24,633 --> 00:47:26,885 The problem is nobody bothered 1100 00:47:26,885 --> 00:47:28,679 to call Walter Yetnikoff 1101 00:47:28,679 --> 00:47:31,056 and clear the rights because the album was 1102 00:47:31,056 --> 00:47:33,767 going out on Universal MCA's label. 1103 00:47:34,351 --> 00:47:37,646 I'll never forget, uh, one day, I was at a-a meeting 1104 00:47:37,646 --> 00:47:40,232 and I get a call, so I get on the phone 1105 00:47:40,232 --> 00:47:43,652 and Walter says, "Tell Michael to stop kissing the monster." 1106 00:47:43,652 --> 00:47:45,863 "Walter, what are you talking about?" 1107 00:47:45,863 --> 00:47:47,239 "Stop kissing the monster!" 1108 00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:50,701 So, if you look at the E.T. storybook album, 1109 00:47:50,701 --> 00:47:52,369 Michael's got his arm around E.T. 1110 00:47:52,369 --> 00:47:54,788 They're like pals, and that's what Walter was talking about. 1111 00:47:54,788 --> 00:47:56,039 It wasn't just an album. 1112 00:47:56,039 --> 00:47:57,749 It was a whole box set with posters 1113 00:47:57,749 --> 00:48:00,544 and a picture of Michael with E.T. 1114 00:48:01,962 --> 00:48:05,257 So Walter filed an injunction against, 1115 00:48:05,257 --> 00:48:07,134 uh, MCA and Universal 1116 00:48:07,134 --> 00:48:09,803 and made them take the album out of the stores. 1117 00:48:09,803 --> 00:48:12,514 It was already shipped. It was already a huge hit. 1118 00:48:12,514 --> 00:48:14,099 They had to pull the album back. 1119 00:48:14,099 --> 00:48:16,810 Epic wasn't happy, and they felt it was sort of 1120 00:48:16,810 --> 00:48:19,813 holding up their record, the-the Thriller record. 1121 00:48:19,813 --> 00:48:21,106 Yeah, they sued, you know. 1122 00:48:21,106 --> 00:48:22,858 "No, you can't have our artist, da-da-da-da-da." 1123 00:48:22,858 --> 00:48:25,485 You know, and Walter was litigious anyway, 1124 00:48:25,485 --> 00:48:27,821 and so he-he went... he went in hard. 1125 00:48:27,821 --> 00:48:29,615 And MCA responded hard, 1126 00:48:29,615 --> 00:48:31,199 and it was, you know, all hell broke loose. 1127 00:48:31,199 --> 00:48:34,077 And he said, "John, is he mad at me?" 1128 00:48:34,077 --> 00:48:36,830 I said, "What do you think, Walter?" [laughs] 1129 00:48:36,830 --> 00:48:39,833 "You-you just sued him and Steven Spielberg 1130 00:48:39,833 --> 00:48:42,085 and Quincy Jones, and you wonder... 1131 00:48:42,085 --> 00:48:44,254 you're wondering if he's mad at you?" 1132 00:48:44,254 --> 00:48:48,216 Uh, and he goes, "What can I do to make it up?" 1133 00:48:48,216 --> 00:48:50,177 And I said, "You give him the owner... 1134 00:48:50,177 --> 00:48:51,803 ownership of his master recordings: 1135 00:48:51,803 --> 00:48:53,972 Off the Wall, Thriller and everything to come." 1136 00:48:53,972 --> 00:48:55,182 And he said, "Done." 1137 00:48:55,182 --> 00:48:58,560 To get your masters back in the middle of a contract, 1138 00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:01,355 I don't think had ever, ever happened. 1139 00:49:01,355 --> 00:49:03,690 ♪ "Carousel" by Michael Jackson ♪ 1140 00:49:03,690 --> 00:49:05,317 Rod came with his songs. 1141 00:49:05,317 --> 00:49:06,526 Michael had his songs. 1142 00:49:06,526 --> 00:49:08,028 And if those worked, they worked. 1143 00:49:08,028 --> 00:49:10,405 If they didn't, they-they went looking elsewhere. 1144 00:49:10,405 --> 00:49:12,741 ♪ I lost my heart ♪ 1145 00:49:12,741 --> 00:49:16,078 ♪ On the carousel ♪ 1146 00:49:16,078 --> 00:49:18,705 ♪ To a circus girl ♪ 1147 00:49:18,705 --> 00:49:22,584 ♪ Who left my heart in pieces... ♪ 1148 00:49:22,584 --> 00:49:25,045 "Carousel" was a great song, 1149 00:49:25,045 --> 00:49:27,422 and fortunately or unfortunately, you know, 1150 00:49:27,422 --> 00:49:28,924 there was only room on the album 1151 00:49:28,924 --> 00:49:33,470 for one mood like, uh, "Carousel" or-or "Human Nature," 1152 00:49:33,470 --> 00:49:37,349 and "Human Nature" was the choice we had to make, you know. 1153 00:49:37,349 --> 00:49:38,892 Toto was big at that time. 1154 00:49:38,892 --> 00:49:41,269 Toto, who I just adored, 1155 00:49:41,269 --> 00:49:44,022 we worked together a lot, and, um, they sent over 1156 00:49:44,022 --> 00:49:47,609 two demos that they thought would be right for Michael, 1157 00:49:47,609 --> 00:49:49,403 and all of a sudden, there's... 1158 00:49:49,403 --> 00:49:51,530 at the end, there was all this silence. 1159 00:49:51,530 --> 00:49:53,073 And then it said... it said... 1160 00:49:53,073 --> 00:49:54,825 ♪ Why, why? ♪ 1161 00:49:56,785 --> 00:49:58,036 ♪ Why? ♪ 1162 00:49:58,036 --> 00:49:59,413 And-and I tell you, I get... 1163 00:49:59,413 --> 00:50:01,164 I get goose bumps just talking about it. 1164 00:50:01,164 --> 00:50:03,959 And I said, "What the hell is that?" You know? 1165 00:50:03,959 --> 00:50:05,627 That's what took "Carousel" out. 1166 00:50:05,627 --> 00:50:07,170 I said, "This is where we want to go," 1167 00:50:07,170 --> 00:50:09,923 'cause it's got such a... a-a wonderful flavor. 1168 00:50:09,923 --> 00:50:12,050 - I'll tell you what. 1169 00:50:12,050 --> 00:50:15,387 Tonight, I want to do... 1170 00:50:16,013 --> 00:50:18,890 ...one of my favorite songs. 1171 00:50:18,890 --> 00:50:21,268 ♪ I touched her shoulder ♪ 1172 00:50:21,268 --> 00:50:25,022 ♪ She likes the way I stare ♪ 1173 00:50:25,022 --> 00:50:27,524 ♪ And they say, "Why?" ♪ 1174 00:50:27,524 --> 00:50:28,734 Everybody sing! 1175 00:50:28,734 --> 00:50:31,319 ♪ Tell them that it's human nature ♪ 1176 00:50:31,319 --> 00:50:34,948 ♪ Why, why does he do me that way? ♪ 1177 00:50:34,948 --> 00:50:38,243 The song that always haunts me is "Human Nature." 1178 00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:41,830 - Um... Yeah. - What a beautiful record. 1179 00:50:41,830 --> 00:50:43,290 That's-that's one of those records that you just say, 1180 00:50:43,290 --> 00:50:45,667 "I wish I would've did that record." 1181 00:50:45,667 --> 00:50:48,003 And that always, for me, is the... 1182 00:50:48,003 --> 00:50:50,422 the test of if I love it or not. 1183 00:50:50,422 --> 00:50:54,718 I remember one experience in the studio, 1184 00:50:54,718 --> 00:50:57,054 Rod Temperton, one of the writers on the album, 1185 00:50:57,054 --> 00:50:59,765 and he said, "Michael, if you only had three hits 1186 00:50:59,765 --> 00:51:02,559 off this album, would you not be happy?" 1187 00:51:02,559 --> 00:51:04,227 I said, "I'd be very angry." 1188 00:51:04,227 --> 00:51:06,021 And they all started laughing. 1189 00:51:06,021 --> 00:51:09,816 I said, "I expect eight hits off of this album. 1190 00:51:09,816 --> 00:51:11,276 Nine, all of 'em." 1191 00:51:13,904 --> 00:51:15,280 That is how I am. I'm sorry. 1192 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,158 And my attitude was always reaching out for more. 1193 00:51:18,158 --> 00:51:19,951 Never being satisfied. 1194 00:51:19,951 --> 00:51:24,372 And right at this very moment, I'm on my fifth hit record. 1195 00:51:24,873 --> 00:51:27,292 Five. "Human Nature" is number ten. 1196 00:51:27,292 --> 00:51:31,129 And I've broken a record that has never been done before-- 1197 00:51:31,129 --> 00:51:32,589 five hit songs for one album. 1198 00:51:32,589 --> 00:51:37,677 Always reaching out for more, striving for excellence. 1199 00:51:40,639 --> 00:51:42,933 It's so engaging 1200 00:51:42,933 --> 00:51:44,893 because the idea 1201 00:51:44,893 --> 00:51:46,436 was to have something for everyone. 1202 00:51:46,436 --> 00:51:49,064 There was a song that I didn't really know too much about 1203 00:51:49,064 --> 00:51:50,315 that was called "Starlight," 1204 00:51:50,315 --> 00:51:52,818 and it was a disco song that Rod Temperton wrote. 1205 00:51:52,818 --> 00:51:56,822 You know, so it really evolved from 1206 00:51:56,822 --> 00:52:00,408 this click here at 1:18. 1207 00:52:00,408 --> 00:52:03,328 And so, okay, we lay the click down, and the idea was: 1208 00:52:03,328 --> 00:52:05,372 "Let's put it... let's put a new version down. 1209 00:52:05,372 --> 00:52:07,749 Let's put some tracks down and see where it goes." 1210 00:52:07,749 --> 00:52:09,960 So we-we started with this drumbeat. 1211 00:52:11,253 --> 00:52:14,673 Four on the floor, kind of dance song. 1212 00:52:15,132 --> 00:52:18,051 And then... backbeat. 1213 00:52:21,012 --> 00:52:22,806 Claps on the four. 1214 00:52:26,226 --> 00:52:29,688 And then the hi-hat part was like this. 1215 00:52:30,564 --> 00:52:32,524 Five, six, seven, eight. 1216 00:52:36,236 --> 00:52:38,697 And then open hat. 1217 00:52:40,490 --> 00:52:42,200 There we go. 1218 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,661 And then the cowbell. 1219 00:52:52,836 --> 00:52:54,087 Here we go. 1220 00:52:54,087 --> 00:52:56,506 So, another thing about Michael and Quincy 1221 00:52:56,506 --> 00:52:57,465 is they like kind of like 1222 00:52:57,465 --> 00:52:59,718 a little bit of a feel to the music. 1223 00:52:59,718 --> 00:53:01,386 So, this is straight time. 1224 00:53:01,386 --> 00:53:04,431 And then we add a little bit of shuffle to it 1225 00:53:04,431 --> 00:53:08,518 so it just kind of pushes it a little bit like that. 1226 00:53:08,518 --> 00:53:09,603 So it's in. 1227 00:53:09,603 --> 00:53:14,316 And then the bass line ended up being kind of like a... 1228 00:53:14,316 --> 00:53:16,193 something I never would have expected, 1229 00:53:16,193 --> 00:53:18,904 like a little bit of a Latin rhythm, like... 1230 00:53:22,449 --> 00:53:25,160 Which sounded like a conga line to me, but... 1231 00:53:28,330 --> 00:53:30,457 And there was the-the opening. 1232 00:53:34,252 --> 00:53:37,505 ♪ "Thriller" by Michael Jackson ♪ 1233 00:53:41,801 --> 00:53:43,678 Just layering all the parts to "Thriller" 1234 00:53:43,678 --> 00:53:47,599 was one of the most fun sessions I've ever done in my life. 1235 00:53:48,141 --> 00:53:50,143 At 24, Michael had become more 1236 00:53:50,143 --> 00:53:53,146 than a master singer, dancer, songwriter. 1237 00:53:53,146 --> 00:53:56,066 He was a super salesman of his own mystique. 1238 00:53:56,066 --> 00:53:59,319 Michael's passion for world conquest was singular. 1239 00:53:59,319 --> 00:54:03,448 He lived, breathed, slept, dreamt and spoke 1240 00:54:03,448 --> 00:54:06,618 of nothing but number one successes. 1241 00:54:07,702 --> 00:54:09,454 Thriller stayed number one for months. 1242 00:54:09,454 --> 00:54:13,416 In the long period of its unprecedented success, however, 1243 00:54:13,416 --> 00:54:17,003 when it occasionally fell to second place for a week or two, 1244 00:54:17,003 --> 00:54:18,838 Michael panicked. 1245 00:54:18,838 --> 00:54:20,465 Hysterical, he'd berate me 1246 00:54:20,465 --> 00:54:23,009 for failing to pump up the promotion. 1247 00:54:23,009 --> 00:54:24,803 "I'm pumping, Michael," I'd say. 1248 00:54:24,803 --> 00:54:26,596 "I promise you I'm pumping." 1249 00:54:26,596 --> 00:54:28,098 And I was. 1250 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,433 After Thriller had sold 1251 00:54:30,433 --> 00:54:32,894 about three or four million copies, 1252 00:54:32,894 --> 00:54:34,646 I got a call about 12 noon. 1253 00:54:34,646 --> 00:54:37,107 On the phone was the record company saying, 1254 00:54:37,107 --> 00:54:38,692 "Hey, listen, if you're not busy, 1255 00:54:38,692 --> 00:54:41,486 we need you to get over here right now." 1256 00:54:41,486 --> 00:54:45,198 Michael was going to be presented a-a plaque 1257 00:54:45,198 --> 00:54:47,367 for the-the Thriller record. 1258 00:54:47,367 --> 00:54:50,662 And we were wondering, why were we waiting? 1259 00:54:51,204 --> 00:54:53,623 In came Jane Fonda. 1260 00:54:53,623 --> 00:54:55,166 Jane? 1261 00:54:59,587 --> 00:55:01,631 I love Michael, and I admire him. 1262 00:55:01,631 --> 00:55:04,050 He's the only person I know that writes music 1263 00:55:04,050 --> 00:55:06,094 that you can dream to and dance to 1264 00:55:06,094 --> 00:55:07,721 and love to and work out to. 1265 00:55:07,721 --> 00:55:09,097 And I do all of 'em to it. 1266 00:55:09,097 --> 00:55:11,349 - Come here, Michael. 1267 00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:12,934 In retrospect, I know 1268 00:55:12,934 --> 00:55:15,478 exactly what he was doing. 1269 00:55:16,062 --> 00:55:17,939 He understood the importance of having 1270 00:55:17,939 --> 00:55:22,027 a big white star giving him this plaque. 1271 00:55:22,027 --> 00:55:25,405 Uh, Michael has a number one single on the pop charts, 1272 00:55:25,405 --> 00:55:27,615 number one album on the pop charts, 1273 00:55:27,615 --> 00:55:30,994 number one single on the R and B charts, 1274 00:55:30,994 --> 00:55:33,413 number one album on the R and B charts. 1275 00:55:33,413 --> 00:55:35,040 And I think that starts... 1276 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,042 that's sort of an historic record. 1277 00:55:37,042 --> 00:55:38,960 But I don't think we understood 1278 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:40,503 where it was gonna go until 1279 00:55:40,503 --> 00:55:42,839 the "Thriller" video came out. 1280 00:55:42,839 --> 00:55:44,799 ♪ suspenseful orchestral music ♪ 1281 00:55:47,010 --> 00:55:48,428 As far as the record company 1282 00:55:48,428 --> 00:55:50,764 was concerned, the album cycle was done. 1283 00:55:50,764 --> 00:55:52,599 They were thrilled with whatever it sold, 1284 00:55:52,599 --> 00:55:56,019 and Michael said, "No, no, we're gonna... we got more." 1285 00:55:56,019 --> 00:55:58,229 "Thriller," of all the songs on the album, 1286 00:55:58,229 --> 00:56:02,442 uh, seems like you can do much more video-wise-- 1287 00:56:02,442 --> 00:56:05,236 no, movie-wise-- than any of the songs 1288 00:56:05,236 --> 00:56:07,447 'cause of the story and all the visuals 1289 00:56:07,447 --> 00:56:09,824 and monsters and stuff. 1290 00:56:09,824 --> 00:56:11,451 And so I came up with an idea 1291 00:56:11,451 --> 00:56:14,204 of thinking that I really want to change, 1292 00:56:14,204 --> 00:56:17,749 metamorphosis into some other creature. 1293 00:56:17,749 --> 00:56:21,086 I... and I-I saw American Werewolf In London. 1294 00:56:21,086 --> 00:56:23,129 I really liked it. 1295 00:56:23,129 --> 00:56:25,799 And-and I said, "Who's the director who did it?" 1296 00:56:25,799 --> 00:56:27,384 And they said, "John Landis, John Landis." 1297 00:56:27,384 --> 00:56:29,386 I said, "Great. That's who we got to get." 1298 00:56:29,386 --> 00:56:31,596 So I said, "Get in touch with him." 1299 00:56:32,138 --> 00:56:34,099 So I get this call, and he says, 1300 00:56:34,099 --> 00:56:36,643 "Michael Jackson," and I really thought... 1301 00:56:37,143 --> 00:56:39,229 "Little Michael Jackson of The Jackson 5?" 1302 00:56:39,229 --> 00:56:41,189 I mean, I thought, "He's a kid," you know? 1303 00:56:41,189 --> 00:56:43,441 And he told me he had a song, "Thriller," 1304 00:56:43,441 --> 00:56:45,443 and he wanted me to make a video. 1305 00:56:45,443 --> 00:56:46,653 And I said, "Why?" 1306 00:56:46,653 --> 00:56:48,738 His brother showed him on the bus 1307 00:56:48,738 --> 00:56:51,741 the tape of American Werewolf, I think to scare him, 1308 00:56:51,741 --> 00:56:53,618 but he loved American Werewolf in London. 1309 00:56:53,618 --> 00:56:57,956 And he was obviously fascinated with Rick Baker's work. 1310 00:57:01,126 --> 00:57:03,086 And so he called me and said, 1311 00:57:03,086 --> 00:57:05,088 "I want to turn into a monster. Will you do it?" 1312 00:57:05,088 --> 00:57:07,632 And the record label wouldn't pay for it. 1313 00:57:07,632 --> 00:57:09,676 And, uh... and we talked, and I said, 1314 00:57:09,676 --> 00:57:11,719 "Michael, you know, you shouldn't pay for this. 1315 00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,389 You shouldn't pay for it yourself." 1316 00:57:14,389 --> 00:57:16,391 And he said, "Branca, figure it out." 1317 00:57:16,391 --> 00:57:18,393 Nobody wanted him to do this. 1318 00:57:18,393 --> 00:57:20,728 This was entirely his own thing. 1319 00:57:20,728 --> 00:57:24,607 And everybody else-- his people and the record company-- 1320 00:57:24,607 --> 00:57:28,570 said, "Next album. Let's... We've already... Michael, hello. 1321 00:57:28,570 --> 00:57:32,115 It's the most successful album of all time. We want..." 1322 00:57:32,115 --> 00:57:35,243 So they thought "Thriller" was outrageous. 1323 00:57:35,243 --> 00:57:37,662 Its budget was $1.2 million dollars. 1324 00:57:37,662 --> 00:57:40,248 That's at a time when the average music video budget 1325 00:57:40,248 --> 00:57:41,791 was only $50,000 dollars. 1326 00:57:41,791 --> 00:57:45,086 So I went... I went back to the office and thought about it. 1327 00:57:45,086 --> 00:57:47,922 And I thought up this idea of a making-of. 1328 00:57:47,922 --> 00:57:49,382 Went to MTV and Showtime, 1329 00:57:49,382 --> 00:57:51,885 and-and Michael was the biggest thing on the planet. 1330 00:57:51,885 --> 00:57:53,052 And I said, "We'll give you 1331 00:57:53,052 --> 00:57:54,846 a making of Michael's next video. 1332 00:57:54,846 --> 00:57:56,181 We need a million two." 1333 00:57:56,181 --> 00:57:59,100 And they came back, and they said yes. 1334 00:57:59,100 --> 00:58:00,435 We're trying to bring back 1335 00:58:00,435 --> 00:58:01,853 the motion picture shorts, 1336 00:58:01,853 --> 00:58:04,981 which we will do with, uh... with "Thriller." 1337 00:58:04,981 --> 00:58:06,983 A lot of the videos-- I hate to use the word "video" 1338 00:58:06,983 --> 00:58:09,611 'cause I like to think of it as a film, which it is-- 1339 00:58:09,611 --> 00:58:13,615 we're doing a short film-- a lot of 'em are so terrible. 1340 00:58:13,615 --> 00:58:16,242 And I wanted "Thriller" and "Beat It" to be a stimulant 1341 00:58:16,242 --> 00:58:19,746 for people to make better videos or short films. 1342 00:58:19,746 --> 00:58:24,292 I really did, 'cause, I mean, I love MTV, watching it. 1343 00:58:24,292 --> 00:58:25,710 You know, I think it's great, 1344 00:58:25,710 --> 00:58:28,588 but a lot of stuff I see, I'm not so crazy about. 1345 00:58:28,588 --> 00:58:30,590 He wanted to turn into a... 1346 00:58:30,590 --> 00:58:31,799 at first, a-a wolf man, 1347 00:58:31,799 --> 00:58:36,429 like the werewolf in American Werewolf. 1348 00:58:37,722 --> 00:58:41,726 His desire was to turn into a monster 1349 00:58:41,726 --> 00:58:43,186 on camera. 1350 00:58:43,186 --> 00:58:45,522 We had the character turn into 1351 00:58:45,522 --> 00:58:48,942 a four-legged hound from hell, a... 1352 00:58:48,942 --> 00:58:50,610 you know, a beast. 1353 00:58:50,610 --> 00:58:53,821 And Michael wanted to do that, and I told him, 1354 00:58:53,821 --> 00:58:55,990 "Michael, it would be so difficult 1355 00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:57,367 for you to dance with four legs, 1356 00:58:57,367 --> 00:58:59,911 you know, and for the puppeteers. 1357 00:58:59,911 --> 00:59:00,620 No." 1358 00:59:00,620 --> 00:59:02,330 So then it was gonna be 1359 00:59:02,330 --> 00:59:04,874 more of a traditional wolf man character. 1360 00:59:04,874 --> 00:59:09,254 And Rick Baker did the first design, and it was great 1361 00:59:09,254 --> 00:59:12,257 but truly terrifying. 1362 00:59:12,257 --> 00:59:14,425 And I said, "Aah! Whatever we have him 1363 00:59:14,425 --> 00:59:17,011 turn into, he's got to be attractive." 1364 00:59:17,011 --> 00:59:19,639 Scary but... 1365 00:59:19,639 --> 00:59:22,350 kind of cool and elegant, you know? 1366 00:59:22,350 --> 00:59:26,729 So his second design, he made him that "were-cat," 1367 00:59:26,729 --> 00:59:29,899 and it's a much more graceful design. 1368 00:59:29,899 --> 00:59:31,526 Are you all right? 1369 00:59:31,526 --> 00:59:34,112 - Go away! 1370 00:59:35,697 --> 00:59:38,408 ♪ "Thriller" by Michael Jackson ♪ 1371 00:59:39,951 --> 00:59:42,036 Michael Jackson was 1372 00:59:42,036 --> 00:59:43,454 a very slight person. 1373 00:59:43,454 --> 00:59:46,457 99 pounds soaking wet. 1374 00:59:46,457 --> 00:59:50,461 So, how do you develop a presence on screen? 1375 00:59:50,461 --> 00:59:51,671 For "Thriller," 1376 00:59:51,671 --> 00:59:53,423 you know, it was supposed to be 1377 00:59:53,423 --> 00:59:56,009 a satire of a teenage horror film, 1378 00:59:56,009 --> 00:59:57,427 so he's in a letterman's jacket. 1379 00:59:57,427 --> 01:00:01,389 And then, with his red jacket for that theater, 1380 01:00:01,389 --> 01:00:05,184 I was trying to create a silhouette that was 1381 01:00:05,184 --> 01:00:09,856 sexy, masculine, impressive, 1382 01:00:09,856 --> 01:00:15,653 and... and gave him weight on screen. 1383 01:00:16,404 --> 01:00:19,198 So, with Michael's fascination 1384 01:00:19,198 --> 01:00:23,202 with monsters, I said, "Well, you'll become two monsters. 1385 01:00:23,202 --> 01:00:24,662 You'll become a werewolf," 1386 01:00:24,662 --> 01:00:28,875 and then when we decided on dancing zombies, a zombie. 1387 01:00:28,875 --> 01:00:30,543 Doesn't make sense, but who cares? 1388 01:00:30,543 --> 01:00:32,712 You know, it's a fantasy. 1389 01:00:33,504 --> 01:00:36,674 And he really enjoyed the process of the makeup, 1390 01:00:36,674 --> 01:00:39,677 and he really enjoyed wearing the makeup. 1391 01:00:39,677 --> 01:00:42,597 Most actors hate it, and he loved it. 1392 01:00:42,597 --> 01:00:44,599 He's so dynamic, Mike, 1393 01:00:44,599 --> 01:00:46,768 and he has such power and such charm. 1394 01:00:46,768 --> 01:00:50,563 As I had seen it, just looking at, you know, 1395 01:00:50,563 --> 01:00:53,274 "Can You Feel It" and everything I saw, 1396 01:00:53,274 --> 01:00:57,320 it's like, "Why isn't he being sexual?" 1397 01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,656 I mean, he's a rock star. 1398 01:00:59,656 --> 01:01:03,159 So one of the first things for me was 1399 01:01:03,159 --> 01:01:07,455 I wanted a girl to make him sexy 1400 01:01:07,455 --> 01:01:09,332 and to also... 1401 01:01:09,332 --> 01:01:13,378 to be gaga in love with him. 1402 01:01:13,378 --> 01:01:15,838 The big eyes, you know. 1403 01:01:15,838 --> 01:01:19,676 And I saw over a hundred actresses 1404 01:01:19,676 --> 01:01:21,719 and dancers and all kinds of people. 1405 01:01:21,719 --> 01:01:23,304 And when Ola came in, 1406 01:01:23,304 --> 01:01:26,182 one, she was desperate, desperate 1407 01:01:26,182 --> 01:01:29,644 to be with Michael Jackson, and she was adorable. 1408 01:01:29,644 --> 01:01:32,522 Michael Jackson isn't Michael Jackson 1409 01:01:32,522 --> 01:01:34,399 as a werewolf. 1410 01:01:34,399 --> 01:01:36,984 Michael Jackson is 1411 01:01:36,984 --> 01:01:39,987 another person totally with the mask. 1412 01:01:39,987 --> 01:01:42,907 And I like, you know, when he's so shy. 1413 01:01:42,907 --> 01:01:44,826 I have something I want to tell you. 1414 01:01:44,826 --> 01:01:46,619 The only time I really 1415 01:01:46,619 --> 01:01:49,080 explained something to him, I said, "You know, Michael, 1416 01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:53,251 I want you to know when you say, 'I'm not like other guys'..." 1417 01:01:53,251 --> 01:01:55,378 I'm not like other guys. 1418 01:01:55,378 --> 01:01:57,338 "...it will get a laugh." 1419 01:01:57,922 --> 01:02:00,633 And he was clueless. He said, "Why would this get a laugh?" 1420 01:02:00,633 --> 01:02:02,844 I said, "Because you're not like other guys." 1421 01:02:02,844 --> 01:02:05,805 But at least he was prepared, 'cause it got a huge laugh 1422 01:02:05,805 --> 01:02:09,100 and, uh... and so he was in on it. 1423 01:02:09,100 --> 01:02:12,311 You know, I think he would have been terribly upset otherwise. 1424 01:02:12,311 --> 01:02:14,605 From the beginning of the film, 1425 01:02:14,605 --> 01:02:17,108 going to the theater, 1426 01:02:17,108 --> 01:02:19,193 then you're walking out, and then Michael has 1427 01:02:19,193 --> 01:02:20,403 that cat-and-mouse sort of, uh, 1428 01:02:20,403 --> 01:02:22,280 walk that he's doing with Ola Ray. 1429 01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:26,617 That's like an ode back to, uh, classic, uh, musicals, right? 1430 01:02:26,617 --> 01:02:27,910 The cat-and-mouse chase. 1431 01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:29,787 Right? Th-Then, you know, the-the man 1432 01:02:29,787 --> 01:02:31,581 playing up to the woman and all that. 1433 01:02:31,581 --> 01:02:33,124 And it's a dolly shot. 1434 01:02:33,124 --> 01:02:37,044 And I said, "Mike, here's what we're gonna do. 1435 01:02:37,044 --> 01:02:40,173 As long as Ola could keep the beat, 1436 01:02:40,173 --> 01:02:41,841 you do those lyrics, 1437 01:02:41,841 --> 01:02:45,094 you can never be more than this many feet away from her." 1438 01:02:45,094 --> 01:02:47,430 The big difference between 1439 01:02:47,430 --> 01:02:50,683 a costume designer and a fashion designer is, 1440 01:02:50,683 --> 01:02:53,895 for us, it's all about dramatic context. 1441 01:02:53,895 --> 01:02:55,563 So, where are they gonna be? 1442 01:02:55,563 --> 01:02:58,691 They're gonna be in an alley and a movie theater. 1443 01:02:58,691 --> 01:02:59,984 And what are they doing? 1444 01:02:59,984 --> 01:03:02,779 They're on a date, and Michael is gonna 1445 01:03:02,779 --> 01:03:05,865 be playful and be seductive. 1446 01:03:05,865 --> 01:03:07,658 She's dressed in blue. 1447 01:03:07,658 --> 01:03:08,910 She's cool. 1448 01:03:08,910 --> 01:03:11,871 She's relaxed. She's in jeans. 1449 01:03:11,871 --> 01:03:14,791 They did have a leopard print on them, 1450 01:03:14,791 --> 01:03:17,919 but, you know, tight jeans, little jacket. 1451 01:03:17,919 --> 01:03:19,587 She couldn't have been cuter. 1452 01:03:19,587 --> 01:03:21,506 I think, to the audience, 1453 01:03:21,506 --> 01:03:24,300 with what she's wearing and her attitude, 1454 01:03:24,300 --> 01:03:26,928 she's sending off every good vibe. 1455 01:03:26,928 --> 01:03:29,639 And I'll say, "Okay, well, that was fine. 1456 01:03:29,639 --> 01:03:31,390 I don't want fine. 1457 01:03:31,390 --> 01:03:33,810 You're Michael Jackson, 1458 01:03:33,810 --> 01:03:36,771 so it has to be great. 1459 01:03:36,771 --> 01:03:38,648 Because if you can't be great, 1460 01:03:38,648 --> 01:03:40,817 why the fuck do I have Michael Jackson here?" 1461 01:03:40,817 --> 01:03:43,528 So he goes, "Okay, John." 1462 01:03:43,528 --> 01:03:44,904 And he did the next take. 1463 01:03:44,904 --> 01:03:47,031 He was great! You know? 1464 01:03:47,031 --> 01:03:52,411 ♪ For you and I to cuddle close together, yeah ♪ 1465 01:03:52,411 --> 01:03:54,705 ♪ All through the night ♪ 1466 01:03:54,705 --> 01:03:57,792 ♪ I'll save you from the terror on the screen ♪ 1467 01:03:57,792 --> 01:03:59,335 ♪ I'll make you see... ♪ 1468 01:03:59,335 --> 01:04:02,004 Michael Peters and Michael Jackson 1469 01:04:02,004 --> 01:04:03,840 came up with the choreography, 1470 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,800 and it's fascinating choreography 1471 01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,761 because the dancers were allowed 1472 01:04:08,761 --> 01:04:11,722 more rehearsal than usual. 1473 01:04:11,722 --> 01:04:13,474 At that point already, 1474 01:04:13,474 --> 01:04:16,811 Michael had established certain moves, 1475 01:04:16,811 --> 01:04:21,274 so my first instruction to Michael Peters was spooky, 1476 01:04:21,274 --> 01:04:23,609 and the second one was: 1477 01:04:23,609 --> 01:04:25,862 "I don't want any Michael move." 1478 01:04:25,862 --> 01:04:28,948 ♪ suspenseful orchestral music ♪ 1479 01:04:28,948 --> 01:04:31,367 ♪ "Thriller" by Michael Jackson ♪ 1480 01:04:43,462 --> 01:04:45,423 And they go into this 1481 01:04:45,423 --> 01:04:46,757 popping routine, right? 1482 01:04:46,757 --> 01:04:49,802 This goes back to the whole thing of where Michael Jackson 1483 01:04:49,802 --> 01:04:52,889 crosses the technique and the street world, right? 1484 01:04:55,349 --> 01:04:59,812 And he was so inspired by popping and waving and all that 1485 01:04:59,812 --> 01:05:02,773 so that he had to put them in the film. 1486 01:05:02,773 --> 01:05:04,859 How would a zombie dance? 1487 01:05:04,859 --> 01:05:07,153 And then looking at it, and it was... 1488 01:05:07,153 --> 01:05:08,946 it just made a lot of sense to me 1489 01:05:08,946 --> 01:05:12,658 that they weren't just locking or they just weren't popping 1490 01:05:12,658 --> 01:05:15,661 or they just weren't doing jazz dance. 1491 01:05:15,661 --> 01:05:19,790 The angles, the lines were all... 1492 01:05:19,790 --> 01:05:22,293 demented and crooked, and it... 1493 01:05:22,293 --> 01:05:24,962 I'd just never seen anything like that before. 1494 01:05:24,962 --> 01:05:27,798 ♪ 'Cause this is thriller ♪ 1495 01:05:27,798 --> 01:05:29,342 ♪ Thriller night... ♪ 1496 01:05:29,342 --> 01:05:31,260 On those zombies, 1497 01:05:31,260 --> 01:05:33,012 those costumes were just made of rags. 1498 01:05:33,012 --> 01:05:38,100 We call it aging, distressing and dying. 1499 01:05:38,100 --> 01:05:40,519 Then, of course, Rick Baker's work 1500 01:05:40,519 --> 01:05:43,940 was just masterful on everybody. 1501 01:05:43,940 --> 01:05:45,900 ♪ Thriller night ♪ 1502 01:05:45,900 --> 01:05:47,360 ♪ 'Cause I can thrill you more ♪ 1503 01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:51,155 ♪ Than any ghoul would ever dare try ♪ 1504 01:05:58,663 --> 01:06:01,832 This is a song about watching a movie. 1505 01:06:01,832 --> 01:06:04,126 Yo. A Blockbuster night. 1506 01:06:04,126 --> 01:06:05,795 He made a whole movie. 1507 01:06:05,795 --> 01:06:07,171 He entertained us. 1508 01:06:07,171 --> 01:06:09,173 He gave us R and B, he gave us horror, 1509 01:06:09,173 --> 01:06:12,468 he gave us sci-fi, but he gave it all to us in music. 1510 01:06:12,468 --> 01:06:14,011 He-he was just a-amazing. 1511 01:06:14,011 --> 01:06:16,013 After the video came out, 1512 01:06:16,013 --> 01:06:17,848 it tripled its sales. 1513 01:06:17,848 --> 01:06:19,725 They sold six million of these. 1514 01:06:19,725 --> 01:06:21,894 This made MTV a powerhouse 1515 01:06:21,894 --> 01:06:25,398 and then created this whole rock video business. 1516 01:06:25,398 --> 01:06:26,816 It was extraordinary. 1517 01:06:26,816 --> 01:06:28,693 And it's that moment when 1518 01:06:28,693 --> 01:06:30,903 the audience falls madly in love, 1519 01:06:30,903 --> 01:06:33,781 that the audience creates the icons. 1520 01:06:33,781 --> 01:06:35,533 He could write the songs. 1521 01:06:35,533 --> 01:06:36,909 He could produce them. 1522 01:06:36,909 --> 01:06:38,411 He could sing them. 1523 01:06:38,411 --> 01:06:39,787 He could perform like no other. 1524 01:06:39,787 --> 01:06:41,789 And he also was a fashion icon. 1525 01:06:41,789 --> 01:06:44,291 I've seen little tiny kids in red jackets. 1526 01:06:44,291 --> 01:06:46,711 I've seen old grandpas in red jackets. 1527 01:06:46,711 --> 01:06:48,337 I've seen girls in red jackets. 1528 01:06:48,337 --> 01:06:51,048 I've seen everybody wearing that jacket. 1529 01:06:51,048 --> 01:06:52,842 It was huge worldwide. 1530 01:06:52,842 --> 01:06:55,511 They were buying the leather jackets that Michael... 1531 01:06:55,511 --> 01:06:56,929 They were buying everything. 1532 01:06:56,929 --> 01:06:59,515 They were buying Michael Jackson posters, calendars. 1533 01:06:59,515 --> 01:07:02,268 ♪ Looks so much like Michael from head to toe ♪ 1534 01:07:02,268 --> 01:07:04,770 ♪ Put the mic in his hand and he'll steal the show ♪ 1535 01:07:04,770 --> 01:07:06,689 I love you, Michael Jackson. 1536 01:07:06,689 --> 01:07:08,441 Michael Jackson! 1537 01:07:08,441 --> 01:07:10,609 Anything with Michael Jackson on it 1538 01:07:10,609 --> 01:07:11,986 does continue to sell. 1539 01:07:11,986 --> 01:07:13,779 I work in a record store, and it still 1540 01:07:13,779 --> 01:07:15,781 just flies out of the store every week. 1541 01:07:15,781 --> 01:07:17,199 And we're talking about a record 1542 01:07:17,199 --> 01:07:19,869 that's a year and a half, almost two years old, 1543 01:07:19,869 --> 01:07:21,996 and people are still freaking out about it. 1544 01:07:21,996 --> 01:07:23,789 There have always been fan clubs, 1545 01:07:23,789 --> 01:07:25,416 Michael's fans more passionate than most. 1546 01:07:25,416 --> 01:07:28,669 This club calls itself the P.Y.T.'s. 1547 01:07:28,669 --> 01:07:31,756 We love you! We love you, Michael! 1548 01:07:31,756 --> 01:07:33,841 And if nothing else, "Thriller" was always 1549 01:07:33,841 --> 01:07:35,801 gonna be played in the month of October. 1550 01:07:35,801 --> 01:07:38,345 Like, there's this big thing in Mexico that happens 1551 01:07:38,345 --> 01:07:41,807 where, I'll tell you, the-the... every... people fly in for it. 1552 01:07:41,807 --> 01:07:44,769 They're all in their costumes, and they do 1553 01:07:44,769 --> 01:07:47,229 the "Thriller" dance, thousands of people. 1554 01:07:47,229 --> 01:07:49,273 And people are still, you-you know, 1555 01:07:49,273 --> 01:07:51,108 dancing to this song like it's... 1556 01:07:51,108 --> 01:07:52,902 like it was just done, like the... 1557 01:07:52,902 --> 01:07:54,945 like the short film just came out yesterday. 1558 01:07:54,945 --> 01:07:57,698 "Thriller," a long time coming. 1559 01:07:57,698 --> 01:07:59,241 Michael Jackson's "Thriller." 1560 01:07:59,241 --> 01:08:01,619 Probably the single biggest video 1561 01:08:01,619 --> 01:08:03,037 for MTV ever. 1562 01:08:03,037 --> 01:08:05,081 After their initial reluctance, 1563 01:08:05,081 --> 01:08:09,460 MTV became a huge supporter of Michael Jackson, 1564 01:08:09,460 --> 01:08:12,797 especially the "Thriller" short film. 1565 01:08:12,797 --> 01:08:15,341 They heavily promoted the premiere. 1566 01:08:15,341 --> 01:08:19,178 At some point, it felt like the "M" in MTV 1567 01:08:19,178 --> 01:08:21,806 stood for "Michael." 1568 01:08:23,057 --> 01:08:26,102 And everybody was talking about how they were gonna cut school 1569 01:08:26,102 --> 01:08:28,187 to go home to watch the "Thriller" video 1570 01:08:28,187 --> 01:08:32,775 because it was a twelve o'clock world premiere on MTV. 1571 01:08:32,775 --> 01:08:35,152 And he was acting, he was eating popcorn, 1572 01:08:35,152 --> 01:08:36,862 and then he turned into a monster. 1573 01:08:36,862 --> 01:08:39,240 There's something about music, I think, that has... 1574 01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:42,618 that triggers so many different emotions in people, 1575 01:08:42,618 --> 01:08:45,246 so you're tapping into all of that 1576 01:08:45,246 --> 01:08:48,290 to a larger and larger and larger audience, 1577 01:08:48,290 --> 01:08:51,377 and it just exponentially grew. 1578 01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,589 So, the spring of '84, 1579 01:08:55,589 --> 01:08:57,049 the record's already out, 1580 01:08:57,049 --> 01:08:59,760 it's already selling because Michael's now gone 1581 01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,054 from being a pop star to a phenomenon. 1582 01:09:02,054 --> 01:09:04,223 The Guinness Book of World Records is giving him 1583 01:09:04,223 --> 01:09:06,392 an award as the biggest-selling album of all time. 1584 01:09:06,392 --> 01:09:08,060 It's a thriller of a party tonight 1585 01:09:08,060 --> 01:09:09,979 for Michael Jackson at the Museum of Natural History. 1586 01:09:09,979 --> 01:09:12,022 That's where Jackson's being honored 1587 01:09:12,022 --> 01:09:14,316 for his album that's broken all the records. 1588 01:09:14,316 --> 01:09:16,360 This was the payoff for the fans tonight, 1589 01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:19,405 that momentary glimpse of superstar Michael Jackson 1590 01:09:19,405 --> 01:09:22,116 with his date for the evening, Brooke Shields. 1591 01:09:22,116 --> 01:09:25,119 Thriller, with 25 million copies sold, 1592 01:09:25,119 --> 01:09:27,037 was the best-selling album ever. 1593 01:09:27,538 --> 01:09:31,917 Today, we surpassed 25 million copies for Thriller. 1594 01:09:31,917 --> 01:09:36,172 Michael Jackson, the number one artist in the world! 1595 01:09:36,172 --> 01:09:38,257 - Thriller eclipsed them all. 1596 01:09:38,257 --> 01:09:40,551 At one point, the damn thing was selling 1597 01:09:40,551 --> 01:09:41,635 a million copies a week. 1598 01:09:41,635 --> 01:09:45,014 Michael had become a global obsession. 1599 01:09:45,014 --> 01:09:47,641 And just think, you all came to see me. 1600 01:09:49,059 --> 01:09:53,022 No, I know why you're here, and with good reason. 1601 01:09:53,022 --> 01:09:55,274 To see one of the most talented, most popular 1602 01:09:55,274 --> 01:09:59,028 and most exciting superstars in the music world today, 1603 01:09:59,028 --> 01:10:01,113 Michael Jackson. 1604 01:10:01,113 --> 01:10:03,157 Michael, welcome to the White House. 1605 01:10:03,157 --> 01:10:04,950 But being with Michael 1606 01:10:04,950 --> 01:10:06,285 at that moment in time, 1607 01:10:06,285 --> 01:10:10,456 this is... "Thriller" is now out on television. 1608 01:10:10,456 --> 01:10:13,751 And there was Michael mania, you know. 1609 01:10:13,751 --> 01:10:15,127 He called me, and he said, 1610 01:10:15,127 --> 01:10:16,712 "Have you ever been to Disney World?" 1611 01:10:16,712 --> 01:10:19,506 So the park was open, and there were people walking around. 1612 01:10:19,506 --> 01:10:22,218 Here's Michael, here's Mickey and me. 1613 01:10:22,218 --> 01:10:26,764 Suddenly, we look around, 1614 01:10:26,764 --> 01:10:29,558 and there are people 1615 01:10:29,558 --> 01:10:34,396 as far as you can see in every direction-- 1616 01:10:34,396 --> 01:10:38,067 behind us, in front of us, around us-- 1617 01:10:38,067 --> 01:10:41,237 and they're getting more and more hysterical. 1618 01:10:41,237 --> 01:10:43,322 "Michael! Michael!" 1619 01:10:43,322 --> 01:10:47,826 And you see Mickey Mouse is going like... 1620 01:10:47,826 --> 01:10:48,953 "Holy shit! 1621 01:10:48,953 --> 01:10:51,830 We're never getting out of this alive!" You know? 1622 01:10:54,291 --> 01:10:55,793 You know, Thriller was 1623 01:10:55,793 --> 01:10:58,337 the biggest album in the world, Michael was the biggest star, 1624 01:10:58,337 --> 01:11:01,465 and he wanted to go out and tour Thriller. 1625 01:11:01,465 --> 01:11:04,885 But Joseph-- you know, uh, Mr. Jackson-- 1626 01:11:04,885 --> 01:11:07,012 had other ideas. 1627 01:11:07,638 --> 01:11:10,808 He wanted to bring all the family back together. 1628 01:11:10,808 --> 01:11:12,142 He brought in Don King 1629 01:11:12,142 --> 01:11:13,727 as the recommended promoter of the tour. 1630 01:11:13,727 --> 01:11:17,064 And he got the brothers and Mrs. Jackson, Katherine. 1631 01:11:17,064 --> 01:11:19,733 Everybody was all for it. 1632 01:11:20,359 --> 01:11:23,320 Michael was hesitant, to be honest. 1633 01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:26,031 He felt like he had done Thriller on his own, 1634 01:11:26,031 --> 01:11:29,285 and he wanted to tour as a solo artist. 1635 01:11:29,285 --> 01:11:32,329 But he was persuaded to go along with it. 1636 01:11:34,081 --> 01:11:37,960 This tour is a bonanza of marketing, 1637 01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:40,296 so everybody wants to get in on this. 1638 01:11:40,296 --> 01:11:44,133 And Quaker Oats, you know, they had made a deal. 1639 01:11:44,133 --> 01:11:46,635 They had a tentative deal with the Jacksons 1640 01:11:46,635 --> 01:11:49,013 to be the sponsors of this thing. 1641 01:11:49,013 --> 01:11:53,225 And then Don King says, "Listen, I've already made a deal. 1642 01:11:53,225 --> 01:11:54,643 I made it with Pepsi." 1643 01:11:54,643 --> 01:11:58,188 ♪ "Billie Jean" by Michael Jackson ♪ 1644 01:12:04,486 --> 01:12:06,572 Michael was not into the sponsorship 1645 01:12:06,572 --> 01:12:08,490 'cause he-he said, "This isn't my thing. 1646 01:12:08,490 --> 01:12:12,494 I don't drink Pepsi. This is all for my family." 1647 01:12:12,494 --> 01:12:14,747 And Michael did not want to do the Pepsi deal. 1648 01:12:14,747 --> 01:12:17,249 ♪ You're a whole new generation ♪ 1649 01:12:17,249 --> 01:12:19,001 ♪ You're loving what they do ♪ 1650 01:12:19,001 --> 01:12:21,253 ♪ Put a Pepsi into motion ♪ 1651 01:12:21,253 --> 01:12:23,422 ♪ And that choice is up to you, hey, hey, hey ♪ 1652 01:12:23,422 --> 01:12:25,591 ♪ You're the Pepsi Generation... ♪ 1653 01:12:25,591 --> 01:12:28,719 'Cause he said to me, "Okay, Branca, listen to me. 1654 01:12:28,719 --> 01:12:31,180 I got to do this 'cause my family wants it, 1655 01:12:31,180 --> 01:12:33,140 but you have to write two things in the contract. 1656 01:12:33,140 --> 01:12:35,976 Number one: I'm never holding a Pepsi can. 1657 01:12:35,976 --> 01:12:37,353 And number two: I can't be 1658 01:12:37,353 --> 01:12:39,521 on the screen for more than three seconds." 1659 01:12:39,521 --> 01:12:41,398 So it's in the Pepsi contract, 1660 01:12:41,398 --> 01:12:44,526 no more than three seconds and never holding a Pepsi can. 1661 01:12:44,526 --> 01:12:46,737 So if you ever watch that commercial again, 1662 01:12:46,737 --> 01:12:47,946 you'll-you'll see. 1663 01:12:47,946 --> 01:12:49,406 It's interesting because 1664 01:12:49,406 --> 01:12:53,202 if Don King had not made the deal with Pepsi, 1665 01:12:53,202 --> 01:12:54,995 Michael's hair wouldn't have gotten burned. 1666 01:12:54,995 --> 01:12:57,831 I was actually at the Pepsi commercial, 1667 01:12:57,831 --> 01:13:00,584 and I had an all-access pass. 1668 01:13:00,584 --> 01:13:03,712 When I arrived at the Shrine Auditorium Downtown, 1669 01:13:03,712 --> 01:13:06,048 Michael and the Jacksons were onstage 1670 01:13:06,048 --> 01:13:08,801 performing "Billie Jean." 1671 01:13:10,219 --> 01:13:11,512 The audience had been invited, 1672 01:13:11,512 --> 01:13:13,764 you know, and they were told to scream 1673 01:13:13,764 --> 01:13:14,765 and the whole thing. 1674 01:13:14,765 --> 01:13:16,850 They didn't have to be instructed to do that. 1675 01:13:16,850 --> 01:13:18,435 They were crazy about, you know, 1676 01:13:18,435 --> 01:13:20,771 seeing the Jacksons and Michael there and... 1677 01:13:20,771 --> 01:13:25,859 They did a run-through, and after they came offstage, 1678 01:13:25,859 --> 01:13:27,736 Michael was just in a great mood 1679 01:13:27,736 --> 01:13:30,697 and he was having fun, fooling around. 1680 01:13:30,697 --> 01:13:32,491 And then they called them back out 1681 01:13:32,491 --> 01:13:35,077 and said, "We're gonna do this again." 1682 01:13:35,077 --> 01:13:37,746 And it went horribly wrong. 1683 01:13:37,746 --> 01:13:41,125 Filming the Pepsi commercial, there was a big explosion. 1684 01:13:41,125 --> 01:13:45,546 ♪ You're the Pepsi Generation ♪ 1685 01:13:45,546 --> 01:13:47,047 ♪ Guzzle down... ♪ 1686 01:13:47,047 --> 01:13:49,091 And it burned Michael's scalp 1687 01:13:49,091 --> 01:13:50,926 very severely. 1688 01:13:50,926 --> 01:13:53,804 The audience didn't know what was going on. 1689 01:13:53,804 --> 01:13:55,973 And when they took Michael offstage, 1690 01:13:55,973 --> 01:13:57,433 I went backstage, 1691 01:13:57,433 --> 01:14:00,477 and it was just absolute chaos. 1692 01:14:00,477 --> 01:14:03,188 They put him in a stretcher-- 1693 01:14:03,188 --> 01:14:04,940 you know, an ambulance stretcher-- 1694 01:14:04,940 --> 01:14:10,195 and they took him offstage to a paramedic truck. 1695 01:14:10,195 --> 01:14:14,783 And Michael Jackson was smart enough... 1696 01:14:14,783 --> 01:14:17,578 - ...to be covered up, 1697 01:14:17,578 --> 01:14:19,746 but he had his glove out. 1698 01:14:19,746 --> 01:14:23,292 That was the photograph that went around the world 1699 01:14:23,292 --> 01:14:26,753 of him with the glitter glove. 1700 01:14:26,753 --> 01:14:30,299 People were crying, you know, in the audience. 1701 01:14:30,299 --> 01:14:32,259 And people were running with the ambulance 1702 01:14:32,259 --> 01:14:33,969 as it was taking him away. 1703 01:14:33,969 --> 01:14:36,388 It was just an incredible thing. 1704 01:14:36,388 --> 01:14:38,474 When I got home, it was all over the news. 1705 01:14:38,474 --> 01:14:40,559 Jackson was rushed to a hospital last night 1706 01:14:40,559 --> 01:14:42,644 after suffering second- and third-degree burns. 1707 01:14:42,644 --> 01:14:44,271 But his doctor said 1708 01:14:44,271 --> 01:14:45,731 the famous patient was doing well. 1709 01:14:45,731 --> 01:14:47,774 He slept several hours last night. 1710 01:14:47,774 --> 01:14:50,777 He was up watching TV at approximately one o'clock. 1711 01:14:50,777 --> 01:14:53,155 He's comfortable this morning, although he is continuing 1712 01:14:53,155 --> 01:14:55,073 to have discomfort in the scalp area. 1713 01:14:55,073 --> 01:14:56,575 People don't realize 1714 01:14:56,575 --> 01:14:59,828 he had to go to emergency treatment in a burn center, 1715 01:14:59,828 --> 01:15:02,331 and he was troubled by the pain from that burn 1716 01:15:02,331 --> 01:15:03,790 for the rest of his life, 1717 01:15:03,790 --> 01:15:08,545 which led to pain pills and whatnot to-to ease the pain. 1718 01:15:09,379 --> 01:15:11,507 Because he needed painkillers, 1719 01:15:11,507 --> 01:15:14,593 he was in pain, life couldn't stop. 1720 01:15:14,593 --> 01:15:17,804 He had a book full of things that he had to do. 1721 01:15:17,804 --> 01:15:21,517 You know, a schedule that just could not stop. 1722 01:15:21,517 --> 01:15:22,643 The opening of the Victory Tour 1723 01:15:22,643 --> 01:15:24,228 in Kansas City was a massive event. 1724 01:15:35,072 --> 01:15:36,323 It's at Arrowhead Stadium. 1725 01:15:36,323 --> 01:15:38,575 It's a giant football stadium. 1726 01:15:49,628 --> 01:15:51,547 - I love you, Michael. - I love you, Michael. 1727 01:15:51,547 --> 01:15:52,714 I love you so much. 1728 01:15:52,714 --> 01:15:55,551 This is gonna be the best concert of the century. 1729 01:15:55,551 --> 01:15:56,969 - Don't you think? - Definitely. 1730 01:15:56,969 --> 01:15:59,471 I have to ask Michael Jackson to marry me today. 1731 01:15:59,471 --> 01:16:02,182 We would do about anything to see Michael Jackson. 1732 01:16:17,864 --> 01:16:19,783 You're looking at a sneak preview 1733 01:16:19,783 --> 01:16:21,868 of what is perhaps the most controversial 1734 01:16:21,868 --> 01:16:26,373 rock concert tour in history, the Jacksons' Victory Tour, 1735 01:16:26,373 --> 01:16:28,542 opening tonight in Kansas City. 1736 01:16:58,530 --> 01:17:00,657 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 1737 01:17:00,657 --> 01:17:02,993 ♪ You got to be startin' somethin' ♪ 1738 01:17:02,993 --> 01:17:04,828 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 1739 01:17:04,828 --> 01:17:06,622 ♪ You got to be startin' somethin' ♪ 1740 01:17:06,622 --> 01:17:08,457 - ♪ Too high to get over ♪ - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 1741 01:17:08,457 --> 01:17:09,958 ♪ Too low to get under ♪ 1742 01:17:09,958 --> 01:17:11,835 ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ You're stuck in the middle ♪ 1743 01:17:11,835 --> 01:17:13,837 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ And the pain is thunder ♪ 1744 01:17:13,837 --> 01:17:16,256 - ♪ Too high to get over ♪ - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 1745 01:17:16,256 --> 01:17:17,758 ♪ Too low to get under ♪ 1746 01:17:17,758 --> 01:17:19,635 ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ You're stuck in the middle ♪ 1747 01:17:19,635 --> 01:17:21,803 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ And the pain is thunder ♪ 1748 01:17:21,803 --> 01:17:23,388 ♪ I took my baby to the doctor ♪ 1749 01:17:23,388 --> 01:17:25,599 ♪ With a fever, but nothin' he found ♪ 1750 01:17:25,599 --> 01:17:27,517 ♪ By the time this hit the street ♪ 1751 01:17:27,517 --> 01:17:29,353 ♪ They said she had a breakdown ♪ 1752 01:17:29,353 --> 01:17:31,313 ♪ Someone's always tryin' ♪ 1753 01:17:31,313 --> 01:17:32,898 ♪ To start my baby cryin' ♪ 1754 01:17:32,898 --> 01:17:34,775 ♪ Talkin', squealin', lyin' ♪ 1755 01:17:34,775 --> 01:17:36,818 ♪ Sayin' you just want to be startin' somethin' ♪ 1756 01:17:36,818 --> 01:17:39,029 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 1757 01:17:39,029 --> 01:17:40,864 ♪ You got to be startin' somethin' ♪ 1758 01:17:40,864 --> 01:17:42,741 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 1759 01:17:42,741 --> 01:17:45,661 ♪ tense synthesizer tones fading into drumbeat ♪ 1760 01:17:45,661 --> 01:17:48,664 ♪ "P.Y.T. (Pretty Young Thing)" by Michael Jackson ♪ 1761 01:17:48,664 --> 01:17:50,624 ♪ Where did you come from, lady? ♪ 1762 01:17:50,624 --> 01:17:52,709 The Victory Tour sold out in Kansas City. 1763 01:17:52,709 --> 01:17:55,504 Then it was on to Dallas, Jacksonville, 1764 01:17:55,504 --> 01:17:58,507 New Jersey, New York and Knoxville. 1765 01:17:58,507 --> 01:18:00,801 It's currently scheduled in some 13 cities 1766 01:18:00,801 --> 01:18:02,719 with more sites yet to be announced. 1767 01:18:02,719 --> 01:18:04,680 Preparations are well underway tonight 1768 01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:06,556 for the Jacksons' Victory Tour concert. 1769 01:18:06,556 --> 01:18:08,600 The Jacksons' massive stage was beginning 1770 01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:10,602 to take shape as early as Thursday. 1771 01:18:10,602 --> 01:18:12,145 There's not too many places 1772 01:18:12,145 --> 01:18:14,022 that you can stick a monstrous stage like this. 1773 01:18:14,022 --> 01:18:16,441 Most of the performances, more than 50 in all, 1774 01:18:16,441 --> 01:18:19,695 will be in stadiums like the Silverdome. 1775 01:18:19,695 --> 01:18:21,154 ♪ Pretty young thing ♪ 1776 01:18:21,154 --> 01:18:23,865 - ♪ You need some loving ♪ - ♪ TLC ♪ 1777 01:18:23,865 --> 01:18:25,617 ♪ Tender lovin' care ♪ 1778 01:18:25,617 --> 01:18:28,912 ♪ And I'll take you there, girl ♪ 1779 01:18:28,912 --> 01:18:31,707 ♪ Ooh-ooh, I want to love you... ♪ 1780 01:18:31,707 --> 01:18:33,542 The shows of the Victory Tour 1781 01:18:33,542 --> 01:18:35,168 were much more mainstream America, 1782 01:18:35,168 --> 01:18:39,089 and that was a testament to how big Michael had become 1783 01:18:39,089 --> 01:18:42,300 and to the penetration of the album. 1784 01:18:42,300 --> 01:18:43,510 ♪ Ow! ♪ 1785 01:18:45,804 --> 01:18:47,389 The irony of Thriller is that 1786 01:18:47,389 --> 01:18:48,765 there was never a tour solely dedicated 1787 01:18:48,765 --> 01:18:50,851 to the biggest LP of all time. 1788 01:18:50,851 --> 01:18:52,519 The Victory Tour was a mix 1789 01:18:52,519 --> 01:18:55,772 of vintage Jackson family music and hits from Thriller. 1790 01:18:55,772 --> 01:18:57,482 But it was the Thriller material 1791 01:18:57,482 --> 01:19:00,026 that turned the crowd out every night. 1792 01:19:03,822 --> 01:19:06,116 ♪ Hee! Hoo! ♪ 1793 01:19:15,333 --> 01:19:17,669 ♪ She says I am the one ♪ 1794 01:19:17,669 --> 01:19:20,714 ♪ But the kid is not my son ♪ 1795 01:19:20,714 --> 01:19:24,009 ♪ No, no, no ♪ 1796 01:19:24,509 --> 01:19:27,679 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1797 01:19:27,679 --> 01:19:32,350 ♪ She's just a girl who claims that I am the one ♪ 1798 01:19:32,350 --> 01:19:35,979 ♪ But the kid is not my son ♪ 1799 01:19:37,355 --> 01:19:39,441 ♪ She says I am the one ♪ 1800 01:19:52,204 --> 01:19:53,288 ♪ Whoo! ♪ 1801 01:19:53,288 --> 01:19:55,332 ♪ You know you ain't ♪ 1802 01:19:55,332 --> 01:19:56,958 ♪ Not my lover ♪ 1803 01:19:56,958 --> 01:20:00,545 - ♪ You know you can't ♪ - ♪ Not my lover ♪ 1804 01:20:00,545 --> 01:20:02,464 ♪ Because you are ♪ 1805 01:20:02,464 --> 01:20:04,049 ♪ Not my lover ♪ 1806 01:20:04,049 --> 01:20:06,301 ♪ 'Cause you're a silly girl ♪ 1807 01:20:06,301 --> 01:20:07,969 ♪ Not my lover ♪ 1808 01:20:07,969 --> 01:20:11,556 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1809 01:20:11,556 --> 01:20:14,976 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1810 01:20:14,976 --> 01:20:18,522 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1811 01:20:18,522 --> 01:20:22,275 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1812 01:20:38,583 --> 01:20:41,878 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1813 01:20:43,046 --> 01:20:46,633 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1814 01:20:46,633 --> 01:20:49,761 Michael has been nominated for 12... 1815 01:20:49,761 --> 01:20:53,640 - 12 1983 Grammy Awards. 1816 01:20:53,640 --> 01:20:55,433 The highest number in history. 1817 01:20:55,433 --> 01:20:58,895 ♪ "Don't Stop 'Til You Get Enough" by Michael Jackson ♪ 1818 01:20:58,895 --> 01:21:02,274 So we went to the 1984 Grammys 1819 01:21:02,274 --> 01:21:05,193 at the Shrine Auditorium. 1820 01:21:05,193 --> 01:21:07,279 I didn't get the feeling he was nervous. 1821 01:21:07,279 --> 01:21:08,738 I actually got the feeling that 1822 01:21:08,738 --> 01:21:10,574 he was excited. 1823 01:21:11,533 --> 01:21:14,911 And I don't think I had any idea 1824 01:21:14,911 --> 01:21:16,621 even the magnitude of it. 1825 01:21:16,621 --> 01:21:19,040 ♪ Keep on with the force, don't stop ♪ 1826 01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:21,543 ♪ Don't stop till you get enough, keep on... ♪ 1827 01:21:21,543 --> 01:21:23,628 Michael Jackson was nominated 1828 01:21:23,628 --> 01:21:25,255 for 12 Grammys overall, 1829 01:21:25,255 --> 01:21:29,009 including Album of the Year and Record of the Year. 1830 01:21:29,009 --> 01:21:32,429 ♪ And I feel on fire ♪ 1831 01:21:33,471 --> 01:21:36,308 ♪ Ain't nothin'... ♪ 1832 01:21:36,308 --> 01:21:38,727 The Record of the Year is... 1833 01:21:38,727 --> 01:21:40,020 "Beat It," Michael Jackson. 1834 01:21:40,020 --> 01:21:41,730 For Album of the Year... 1835 01:21:41,730 --> 01:21:43,189 The winner is... 1836 01:21:43,189 --> 01:21:45,358 - Thriller! 1837 01:21:49,529 --> 01:21:51,573 ♪ Sensation ♪ 1838 01:21:51,573 --> 01:21:53,116 ♪ Oh, sensation ♪ 1839 01:21:53,116 --> 01:21:54,701 ♪ Lovely where we're at... ♪ 1840 01:21:54,701 --> 01:21:58,788 Best Pop Vocal Performance, Michael Jackson. 1841 01:22:01,917 --> 01:22:03,710 I made a deal with myself, if I win more... 1842 01:22:03,710 --> 01:22:05,712 one more award, which is this award, 1843 01:22:05,712 --> 01:22:07,714 which is seven, which is a record, 1844 01:22:07,714 --> 01:22:10,175 I would take off my glasses. 1845 01:22:12,385 --> 01:22:15,305 ♪ Ooh, keep on with the force, don't stop ♪ 1846 01:22:15,305 --> 01:22:17,724 ♪ Don't stop till you get enough ♪ 1847 01:22:17,724 --> 01:22:20,143 ♪ Keep on with the force, don't stop ♪ 1848 01:22:20,143 --> 01:22:21,853 ♪ Don't stop till you get enough ♪ 1849 01:22:21,853 --> 01:22:23,939 ♪ Keep on with the force, don't stop... ♪ 1850 01:22:23,939 --> 01:22:25,565 He deserved it. 1851 01:22:25,565 --> 01:22:28,193 You know, it was... it was due. 1852 01:22:28,193 --> 01:22:30,654 ♪ Don't stop till you get enough ♪ 1853 01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:38,870 In February 1984, 1854 01:22:38,870 --> 01:22:42,499 between Michael and Quincy, Thriller won a dozen Grammys. 1855 01:22:46,211 --> 01:22:47,963 Well, as we know, Thriller is 1856 01:22:47,963 --> 01:22:50,256 a huge, huge success-- the album-- 1857 01:22:50,256 --> 01:22:52,217 but, uh... 1858 01:22:52,217 --> 01:22:53,969 the joy of doing something phenomenal 1859 01:22:53,969 --> 01:22:56,763 'cause everybody waiting to see the next big, 1860 01:22:56,763 --> 01:22:58,682 you know, Michael Jackson short. 1861 01:22:58,682 --> 01:23:00,809 And I thought "Thriller" was the perfect vehicle. 1862 01:23:00,809 --> 01:23:02,143 - We're gonna come out. - No. 1863 01:23:02,143 --> 01:23:03,979 - No one's gonna like it. - No, no, no, no, no. 1864 01:23:03,979 --> 01:23:05,772 But 40 years from now, Michael-- 1865 01:23:05,772 --> 01:23:06,898 My part will be. 1866 01:23:06,898 --> 01:23:09,025 I don't know about you. 1867 01:23:09,025 --> 01:23:10,652 All right, and stop. 1868 01:23:10,652 --> 01:23:12,445 - Cut. 1869 01:23:12,445 --> 01:23:14,406 Who's your biggest inspiration? 1870 01:23:14,406 --> 01:23:16,449 Who inspired you the most? 1871 01:23:16,449 --> 01:23:17,575 Michael Jackson. 1872 01:23:17,575 --> 01:23:19,703 Michael saw that he could 1873 01:23:19,703 --> 01:23:21,371 touch greatness with Off the Wall, 1874 01:23:21,371 --> 01:23:24,332 knew he was still going against racist radio 1875 01:23:24,332 --> 01:23:27,210 and people that wanted to put him in a box. 1876 01:23:27,210 --> 01:23:31,047 But you have to be so in the rarefied air, 1877 01:23:31,047 --> 01:23:36,011 ...0001%, to even be able to, like, project yourself to that. 1878 01:23:36,011 --> 01:23:38,930 That idea that I can take 1879 01:23:38,930 --> 01:23:41,808 dance music and visuals 1880 01:23:41,808 --> 01:23:43,560 and turn the world on its ear, 1881 01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:47,897 that idea that he crystallized in "Thriller"-- not going away, 1882 01:23:47,897 --> 01:23:50,525 and I don't think it's ever gonna go away. 1883 01:23:51,026 --> 01:23:52,402 So, whether it was 1884 01:23:52,402 --> 01:23:55,071 "Human Nature" and his amazing voice, 1885 01:23:55,071 --> 01:23:57,073 you know, "Beat It" and looking at 1886 01:23:57,073 --> 01:23:59,701 the references that were there, because every time 1887 01:23:59,701 --> 01:24:02,704 you saw a video, you got a new idea of, like, 1888 01:24:02,704 --> 01:24:04,789 who he was as an artist and what he was selling. 1889 01:24:04,789 --> 01:24:08,126 Right? There was his hair and his clothing, his wardrobe. 1890 01:24:08,126 --> 01:24:10,962 All of those things were informing the culture. 1891 01:24:10,962 --> 01:24:13,548 He was establishing the standard. 1892 01:24:13,548 --> 01:24:15,008 Thriller. 1893 01:24:15,008 --> 01:24:19,554 Man, there has never been anything like that. 1894 01:24:19,554 --> 01:24:21,765 Michael Jackson's Thriller. 1895 01:24:21,765 --> 01:24:23,767 ♪ suspenseful orchestral music ♪ 1896 01:24:25,602 --> 01:24:27,604 What's the problem? 1897 01:24:28,688 --> 01:24:31,274 Come on, I'll take you home. 1898 01:24:42,827 --> 01:24:45,497 ♪ "Beat It" by Michael Jackson ♪ 1899 01:24:57,675 --> 01:25:00,929 ♪ They told him, "Don't you ever come around here ♪ 1900 01:25:00,929 --> 01:25:04,140 ♪ Don't wanna see your face, you better disappear" ♪ 1901 01:25:04,140 --> 01:25:07,644 ♪ The fire's in their eyes and their words are really clear ♪ 1902 01:25:07,644 --> 01:25:11,523 ♪ So beat it, just beat it ♪ 1903 01:25:11,523 --> 01:25:14,526 ♪ You better run, you better do what you can ♪ 1904 01:25:14,526 --> 01:25:18,113 ♪ Don't wanna see no blood, don't be a macho man ♪ 1905 01:25:18,113 --> 01:25:21,699 ♪ You wanna be tough, better do what you can ♪ 1906 01:25:21,699 --> 01:25:23,243 ♪ So beat it ♪ 1907 01:25:23,243 --> 01:25:25,036 ♪ But you wanna be bad ♪ 1908 01:25:25,036 --> 01:25:28,790 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1909 01:25:28,790 --> 01:25:31,668 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 1910 01:25:31,668 --> 01:25:35,171 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1911 01:25:35,171 --> 01:25:38,591 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1912 01:25:38,591 --> 01:25:42,137 - ♪ Just beat it, just beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1913 01:25:42,137 --> 01:25:43,555 ♪ Just beat it ♪ 1914 01:25:43,555 --> 01:25:46,099 - ♪ Beat it, beat it, uh! ♪ - ♪ Just beat it ♪ 1915 01:25:46,099 --> 01:25:49,269 ♪ They're out to get you, better leave while you can ♪ 1916 01:25:49,269 --> 01:25:52,939 ♪ Don't wanna be a boy, you wanna be a man ♪ 1917 01:25:52,939 --> 01:25:55,900 ♪ You wanna stay alive, better do what you can ♪ 1918 01:25:55,900 --> 01:25:59,654 ♪ So beat it, just beat it ♪ 1919 01:25:59,654 --> 01:26:03,116 ♪ You have to show them that you're really not scared ♪ 1920 01:26:03,116 --> 01:26:06,161 ♪ You're playin' with your life, this ain't no truth or dare ♪ 1921 01:26:06,161 --> 01:26:08,163 ♪ They'll kick you, then they'll beat you ♪ 1922 01:26:08,163 --> 01:26:11,791 ♪ Then they'll tell you it's fair, so beat it ♪ 1923 01:26:11,791 --> 01:26:13,459 ♪ But you wanna be bad ♪ 1924 01:26:13,459 --> 01:26:17,172 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1925 01:26:17,172 --> 01:26:20,216 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 1926 01:26:20,216 --> 01:26:23,511 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1927 01:26:23,511 --> 01:26:26,472 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1928 01:26:26,472 --> 01:26:31,019 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1929 01:26:31,019 --> 01:26:34,105 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 1930 01:26:34,105 --> 01:26:37,525 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1931 01:26:37,525 --> 01:26:40,653 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1932 01:26:40,653 --> 01:26:43,781 ♪ Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it ♪ 1933 01:26:43,781 --> 01:26:46,284 ♪ Beat it, beat it, beat it ♪ 1934 01:26:50,830 --> 01:26:53,291 ♪ Beat it, beat it, beat it ♪ 1935 01:26:53,875 --> 01:26:56,044 ♪ Beat it, beat it, beat it ♪ 1936 01:27:00,465 --> 01:27:03,259 ♪ Beat it, beat it, beat it ♪ 1937 01:27:36,542 --> 01:27:40,213 - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1938 01:27:40,213 --> 01:27:43,174 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 1939 01:27:43,174 --> 01:27:46,594 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1940 01:27:46,594 --> 01:27:49,722 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1941 01:27:49,722 --> 01:27:53,434 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1942 01:27:53,434 --> 01:27:56,771 ♪ No one wants to be defeated, oh, Lord ♪ 1943 01:27:56,771 --> 01:28:00,441 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1944 01:28:00,441 --> 01:28:03,736 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1945 01:28:03,736 --> 01:28:07,490 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1946 01:28:07,490 --> 01:28:10,493 ♪ No one wants to be defeated, oh, no ♪ 1947 01:28:10,493 --> 01:28:14,580 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1948 01:28:14,580 --> 01:28:17,083 ♪ It doesn't matter ♪ 159519