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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:24,940 --> 00:00:28,110 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 2 00:00:31,260 --> 00:00:34,026 There are two things in the music business: 3 00:00:34,050 --> 00:00:36,590 before Thriller and after Thriller. 4 00:00:44,420 --> 00:00:45,950 ♪ But you wanna be bad ♪ 5 00:00:46,150 --> 00:00:49,830 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 6 00:00:50,030 --> 00:00:52,850 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 7 00:00:53,050 --> 00:00:56,630 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 8 00:00:56,830 --> 00:00:58,320 ♪ It doesn't matter... ♪ 9 00:00:58,520 --> 00:00:59,810 Mark. 10 00:01:00,310 --> 00:01:02,076 The first time I heard 11 00:01:02,100 --> 00:01:04,096 Michael Jackson's Thriller, he was pop, 12 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,620 he was R and B, he was gospel, he was rock. 13 00:01:07,820 --> 00:01:09,146 It was everything that I loved. 14 00:01:09,170 --> 00:01:10,986 And bring all of these elements together... 15 00:01:11,010 --> 00:01:12,090 dance and choreography 16 00:01:12,260 --> 00:01:14,086 and theatrical moments and the feeling, 17 00:01:14,110 --> 00:01:16,770 you know, like a musical, damn near. 18 00:01:16,970 --> 00:01:20,630 The magic of it... each track was better than the next. 19 00:01:20,830 --> 00:01:22,936 It was in your brain, and everybody knew it. 20 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:24,896 For the 14th consecutive week, 21 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:26,246 the best-selling album in the country 22 00:01:26,270 --> 00:01:28,530 is Michael Jackson's Thriller. 23 00:01:28,730 --> 00:01:30,146 If Thriller came out today, 24 00:01:30,170 --> 00:01:32,680 it would still be the greatest album ever made. 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,210 It's the ultimate blueprint to modern pop music. 26 00:01:36,410 --> 00:01:38,906 I love the way that record is sequenced, right? 27 00:01:38,930 --> 00:01:41,136 "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'." The title says it. 28 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,666 He wanted to be starting some shit right now. He wanted... 29 00:01:43,690 --> 00:01:45,186 He's like, "I'm about to start some shit 30 00:01:45,210 --> 00:01:47,056 in the industry right now. I'm about to blow everybody up." 31 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:48,956 This was literally the pinnacle of everything 32 00:01:48,980 --> 00:01:49,980 that began with him. 33 00:01:50,170 --> 00:01:52,430 "Thriller," "Beat It" 34 00:01:52,630 --> 00:01:53,850 and "Billie Jean." 35 00:01:54,050 --> 00:01:56,046 To this day, when "Thriller" comes on, I mean, 36 00:01:56,070 --> 00:01:58,070 there's not a Halloween that doesn't happen 37 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:59,670 where you don't hear that song. 38 00:01:59,870 --> 00:02:02,750 But then you have "Human Nature," "P.Y.T.," 39 00:02:02,950 --> 00:02:04,750 and then you have "Lady in My Life." 40 00:02:04,890 --> 00:02:07,760 It became the biggest-selling album ever. 41 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,430 Michael Jackson. Always keep one in the cab. 42 00:02:11,630 --> 00:02:13,270 This is history. 43 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:15,026 I want to say it's Black culture, 44 00:02:15,050 --> 00:02:16,660 but it's-it's for everyone. 45 00:02:16,860 --> 00:02:18,466 Thriller is the biggest-selling 46 00:02:18,490 --> 00:02:19,230 album of all time. 47 00:02:19,430 --> 00:02:21,110 Thriller is a cultural phenomenon 48 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,340 that's lasted four decades and seems determined 49 00:02:24,540 --> 00:02:26,480 to continue going forward. 50 00:02:30,950 --> 00:02:32,706 What takes your breath away is 51 00:02:32,730 --> 00:02:36,100 he had the ambition to become the biggest star in the world. 52 00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:38,710 And he did it. The fact that he had 53 00:02:38,910 --> 00:02:40,960 that dream, I mean, that-that goal, 54 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,580 that's what's the remarkable story. 55 00:02:48,940 --> 00:02:50,536 Ever since we were kids, 56 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,410 we've always wanted to dance or keep the time to the music. 57 00:02:54,610 --> 00:02:55,850 And that's part of us. 58 00:02:56,050 --> 00:02:58,130 It's like, uh, something we have to have. 59 00:02:58,300 --> 00:03:00,310 And it's in us, because I don't know 60 00:03:00,510 --> 00:03:03,150 what I would do if there was, uh... wasn't music. 61 00:03:03,350 --> 00:03:04,830 Joe Jackson's role 62 00:03:04,980 --> 00:03:07,990 in his children's careers would give people a lot to talk about. 63 00:03:08,190 --> 00:03:10,910 The former steelworker had somehow gotten his family 64 00:03:11,110 --> 00:03:13,070 out of Indiana, groomed for stardom. 65 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,290 ♪ "I Want You Back" by The Jackson 5 ♪ 66 00:03:24,170 --> 00:03:25,996 Now, here are five brothers 67 00:03:26,020 --> 00:03:28,780 from Gary, Indiana, ranging in age from ten to 18: 68 00:03:28,980 --> 00:03:30,070 The Jackson 5. 69 00:03:30,270 --> 00:03:33,700 ♪ Oh, baby, give me one more chance ♪ 70 00:03:33,900 --> 00:03:35,206 ♪ To show you that I love you ♪ 71 00:03:35,230 --> 00:03:38,810 ♪ Won't you please let me ♪ 72 00:03:39,010 --> 00:03:40,230 ♪ Back in your heart ♪ 73 00:03:40,430 --> 00:03:43,920 ♪ Oh, darlin', I was blind to let you go ♪ 74 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:45,120 ♪ Let you go, baby ♪ 75 00:03:45,270 --> 00:03:46,840 ♪ But now since I see you... ♪ 76 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,886 This poor man's life has been 77 00:03:48,910 --> 00:03:50,010 dissected completely. 78 00:03:50,210 --> 00:03:52,610 Is there anything anybody hasn't asked you by now? 79 00:03:52,750 --> 00:03:53,750 Um... 80 00:03:53,820 --> 00:03:54,950 ♪ Enjoy yourself ♪ 81 00:03:55,150 --> 00:03:57,830 ♪ Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself with me ♪ 82 00:03:58,030 --> 00:04:00,910 ♪ Enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself ♪ 83 00:04:01,110 --> 00:04:03,520 ♪ Enjoy yourself with me ♪ 84 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:05,250 ♪ You better enjoy yourself... ♪ 85 00:04:05,450 --> 00:04:08,156 Now, tell me, what do you think is the success 86 00:04:08,180 --> 00:04:09,976 of the Jacksons, yourself and the Jacksons? 87 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,610 I would say probably, um, togetherness. 88 00:04:13,810 --> 00:04:16,436 I can't think about Michael without thinking about 89 00:04:16,460 --> 00:04:19,270 The Jackson 5 and Motown and all of that, 90 00:04:19,470 --> 00:04:21,620 so it takes me a little further back. 91 00:04:21,820 --> 00:04:22,986 Takes me to Off the Wall, 92 00:04:23,010 --> 00:04:24,656 which is one of my favorite records. 93 00:04:26,620 --> 00:04:28,766 Welcome to WBLS once again, Michael Jackson. 94 00:04:28,790 --> 00:04:30,056 Thank you very much. 95 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:31,536 The name of the album is... 96 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,166 - Off the Wall. - Are you? 97 00:04:34,540 --> 00:04:37,086 We'll be back with Michael right after this. 98 00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:40,040 ♪ Lovely ♪ 99 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,600 ♪ Is the feeling now ♪ 100 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,210 ♪ Fever... ♪ 101 00:04:47,410 --> 00:04:50,230 I was not the biggest Jackson 5 fan. 102 00:04:50,430 --> 00:04:52,050 I was a serious pop music critic. 103 00:04:52,250 --> 00:04:54,516 And I said, "Well, it's cute what they're doing." 104 00:04:54,540 --> 00:04:56,970 - ♪ Baby, baby ♪ - ♪ Ow, ow... ♪ 105 00:04:57,170 --> 00:04:58,546 You know, James Brown, 106 00:04:58,570 --> 00:05:00,290 Jackie Wilson, that's really nice. 107 00:05:00,490 --> 00:05:02,426 You know, it wasn't what I was interested in. 108 00:05:02,450 --> 00:05:04,460 And then Off the Wall comes out, 109 00:05:04,660 --> 00:05:06,500 and I was caught up in the excitement 110 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,000 of learning more about Michael and his world, 111 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:10,576 so I interview him separately. 112 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,480 You interview the brothers all together, him separately. 113 00:05:13,650 --> 00:05:14,970 You know, he's nervous. 114 00:05:15,170 --> 00:05:16,870 He doesn't like to do interviews. 115 00:05:17,070 --> 00:05:18,890 He's sad, he's lonely, he says. 116 00:05:19,090 --> 00:05:21,790 He starts talking about his life. 117 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:29,190 He was so hurt around 14 and 15 and 16, 118 00:05:29,390 --> 00:05:30,980 when his face changed. 119 00:05:31,180 --> 00:05:33,550 He got bigger. 120 00:05:33,750 --> 00:05:35,910 I mean, his face had broken out. 121 00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:37,220 He was so sad. 122 00:05:37,420 --> 00:05:39,180 People didn't care about him anymore. 123 00:05:39,300 --> 00:05:41,856 You know, adults would come into a party at some house, 124 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,060 and they would be looking all around. "Where's Michael?" 125 00:05:45,260 --> 00:05:48,330 And they'd be walking right past him, you know? 126 00:05:48,530 --> 00:05:51,266 And he got the feeling that, "We don't care about you. 127 00:05:51,290 --> 00:05:53,730 We want that little kid." 128 00:05:56,820 --> 00:05:58,566 He was dead set on his focus 129 00:05:58,590 --> 00:06:01,890 to be, you know, Michael Jackson, solo artist. 130 00:06:02,090 --> 00:06:03,850 And he had to. 131 00:06:04,050 --> 00:06:06,520 He knew that it was time. He knew that... 132 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,270 He was excited to have it all be on his own terms. 133 00:06:11,470 --> 00:06:14,510 You know, not with... not attached to anybody. 134 00:06:14,710 --> 00:06:16,900 And he knew that-that... 135 00:06:17,100 --> 00:06:19,200 that he was even gonna soar from that. 136 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:23,200 Well, Off the Wall was an enormous success. 137 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,760 It-it put Michael on the map as a solo artist. 138 00:06:27,510 --> 00:06:30,170 People forget that, before Off the Wall, 139 00:06:30,370 --> 00:06:34,590 there was a period between Motown and the Destiny album 140 00:06:34,790 --> 00:06:36,056 where people thought maybe 141 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:37,876 the career of The Jackson 5 was over, 142 00:06:37,900 --> 00:06:41,570 that they were yesterday's news, forgotten boy band, really. 143 00:06:41,780 --> 00:06:45,080 So Off the Wall reestablished Michael as someone to watch. 144 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:48,440 Off the Wall was just this incredible record, 145 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,270 and we knew that Mike was coming back 146 00:06:51,470 --> 00:06:52,910 with something special because 147 00:06:52,990 --> 00:06:56,650 he didn't win everything that he wanted during the Grammys, 148 00:06:56,850 --> 00:06:59,050 and he only won one award, 149 00:06:59,250 --> 00:07:01,660 which was the R and B award at that. 150 00:07:01,860 --> 00:07:03,370 He thought he was gonna sweep. 151 00:07:03,570 --> 00:07:06,350 He thought for sure, "I got a pop smash here." 152 00:07:06,550 --> 00:07:10,190 So, when that didn't happen, he left there with a vengeance, 153 00:07:10,390 --> 00:07:13,480 just determined to do better next time. 154 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,240 He was determined 155 00:07:15,430 --> 00:07:17,190 to change the way he was perceived. 156 00:07:17,390 --> 00:07:21,490 Uh, there were a lot of writings he did to himself, affirmations. 157 00:07:26,070 --> 00:07:27,486 I look in the mirror, 158 00:07:27,510 --> 00:07:29,276 and I would say over and over to myself... 159 00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:31,540 I'd take a deep breath, put my feet together, 160 00:07:31,740 --> 00:07:34,880 raise myself erect, strong like a... 161 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,130 a hero warrior, and I'd say, 162 00:07:37,330 --> 00:07:39,536 "Biggest-selling album of all time, greatest seller," 163 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,890 over and over to my mind, and look in my eyes. 164 00:07:42,090 --> 00:07:43,120 And I'd mean it. 165 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:45,416 I'd say, "Biggest-selling album of all times." 166 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:46,910 And I wouldn't accept anything 167 00:07:47,110 --> 00:07:49,560 unless this was exactly what I wanted. 168 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:50,580 My attitude was: 169 00:07:50,780 --> 00:07:52,826 I want the biggest-selling album of all times, 170 00:07:52,850 --> 00:07:56,070 to break records, to do phenomenal work. 171 00:07:56,270 --> 00:07:57,820 I came in angry. 172 00:07:58,020 --> 00:07:59,460 Michael was writing. 173 00:07:59,500 --> 00:08:01,700 He was writing. He was fuming. 174 00:08:01,900 --> 00:08:03,890 He was still upset about 175 00:08:04,090 --> 00:08:06,580 this idea that he would be denied, 176 00:08:06,780 --> 00:08:09,270 you know, major awards for Off the Wall. 177 00:08:09,470 --> 00:08:11,350 I just remember all of the, uh... 178 00:08:11,550 --> 00:08:13,390 the process of when they were doing it. 179 00:08:13,470 --> 00:08:15,190 And the, uh... the excitement 180 00:08:15,390 --> 00:08:17,136 while they're recording, just, you know... 181 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:18,936 just hearing tales, you know, as they're coming 182 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:20,396 in and out of the studio with it. 183 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,160 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 184 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,276 ♪ You got to be startin' somethin' ♪ 185 00:08:27,300 --> 00:08:29,340 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 186 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,026 ♪ You got to be startin' somethin' ♪ 187 00:08:31,050 --> 00:08:33,136 - ♪ It's too high to get over ♪ - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 188 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:34,560 ♪ You're too low to get under ♪ 189 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,516 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ You're stuck in the middle ♪ 190 00:08:36,540 --> 00:08:38,406 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ And the pain is thunder ♪ 191 00:08:38,430 --> 00:08:39,650 ♪ Yeah, yeah... ♪ 192 00:08:39,850 --> 00:08:41,646 Westlake was a really great studio 193 00:08:41,670 --> 00:08:45,340 because y-you felt the facility had this warmth 194 00:08:45,540 --> 00:08:49,410 and this friendliness and this casual put-you-at-ease feeling. 195 00:08:49,610 --> 00:08:52,100 There was just the most incredible vibe. 196 00:08:52,300 --> 00:08:56,020 Where you could just be creatively free to-to take... 197 00:08:56,220 --> 00:08:58,790 take the music wherever you wanted. 198 00:09:01,340 --> 00:09:03,476 This is hallowed ground. I was... I was in here a lot 199 00:09:03,500 --> 00:09:05,336 'cause Quincy made a lot of records in here. 200 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,720 Off the Wall was made in here. 201 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:09,260 Certainly Thriller. 202 00:09:09,460 --> 00:09:10,896 Quincy worked in here a lot. 203 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:12,106 Quincy influenced everything 204 00:09:12,130 --> 00:09:13,546 - we've ever done in our lives. - Yes. 205 00:09:13,570 --> 00:09:15,450 - Whether you can hear it or not. - Exactly. 206 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,060 Depth of understanding of music. 207 00:09:18,260 --> 00:09:19,620 That's what makes Quincy Quincy. 208 00:09:19,790 --> 00:09:22,300 He's done big band. He's done small bands. 209 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:24,760 He's done pop. He's done rock. 210 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,160 He's done everything. 211 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,526 So, just understanding all those different genres 212 00:09:28,550 --> 00:09:31,160 and-and how to fuse them all together 213 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:32,756 is what gives you all these 214 00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:35,870 wonderful applications that you get on a Michael Jackson record. 215 00:09:36,070 --> 00:09:37,190 And that sound was ma... 216 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,460 You know, Bruce Swedien had a lot to do with 217 00:09:39,660 --> 00:09:41,580 how that overall sound was... the echo 218 00:09:41,620 --> 00:09:44,950 and the reverbs and the... the way he would place things. 219 00:09:45,150 --> 00:09:46,530 And they were excited. 220 00:09:46,730 --> 00:09:48,210 As we were making the record, 221 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:49,646 you could feel the excitement in the room. 222 00:09:49,670 --> 00:09:51,390 Knowing that we were doing something 223 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,220 that was gonna be special. 224 00:10:00,730 --> 00:10:02,536 Wow, I don't even know 225 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:03,610 where to begin. 226 00:10:03,810 --> 00:10:06,260 I just remember coming here to this studio, 227 00:10:06,460 --> 00:10:08,990 which was like a second home, 228 00:10:09,190 --> 00:10:11,600 and coming in, listening to, uh, 229 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,060 the demos that Rod Temperton would provide. 230 00:10:15,260 --> 00:10:18,270 And we would just start to carve musically 231 00:10:18,470 --> 00:10:22,940 and-and work our way into the details of the demos. 232 00:10:23,140 --> 00:10:25,130 Rod Temperton. 233 00:10:25,330 --> 00:10:26,840 This guy was brilliant. 234 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:28,550 I mean, he was deep. 235 00:10:28,750 --> 00:10:30,936 I love Rod Temperton. He wrote incredible songs, 236 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,550 and he was a part of Quincy's, you know, tight team. 237 00:10:36,810 --> 00:10:39,210 We did a lot of funky sounds 238 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:40,630 on "Baby Be Mine." 239 00:10:53,410 --> 00:10:54,836 Quincy was just looking for... 240 00:10:54,860 --> 00:10:56,546 He's always looking for something different. 241 00:10:56,570 --> 00:10:58,410 So we were brought in because it was... 242 00:10:58,590 --> 00:11:00,540 I think Quincy knew about MTV, 243 00:11:00,740 --> 00:11:02,620 and he was looking for a cinematic thing 244 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:04,590 'cause Quincy came from film. 245 00:11:04,790 --> 00:11:07,071 When Michael would want... he-he knew things 246 00:11:07,230 --> 00:11:08,556 that he would want for sounds. 247 00:11:08,580 --> 00:11:11,280 And, uh, he would put it on a record player and play it. 248 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,776 And then I'd say, "Well, let me go get that other synth." 249 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:15,280 So it would be in the truck, 250 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,296 parked in the parking lot of Westlake, 251 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:18,656 or it would be in the hallway. 252 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:20,296 We had Anvil Cases lined up the hall, 253 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,280 and we just basically took over the place. 254 00:11:22,450 --> 00:11:25,150 And we were creating sounds and using synthesizers 255 00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:27,550 in-in kind of a big way and replacing orchestra. 256 00:11:35,490 --> 00:11:37,526 So, one of the things that 257 00:11:37,550 --> 00:11:39,026 I noticed about Michael's development 258 00:11:39,050 --> 00:11:40,756 as a songwriter... I-I saw him getting 259 00:11:40,780 --> 00:11:42,466 more rhythmically and harmonically advanced, 260 00:11:42,490 --> 00:11:44,556 taking steps forward and forward and forward. 261 00:11:44,580 --> 00:11:47,610 His talent was not only developing as a singer. 262 00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:49,320 - Mm-hmm. - He developed as a... 263 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,200 - as an entertainer. - Yes. 264 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,086 It's funny you guys should have picked this room, 265 00:11:53,110 --> 00:11:56,540 'cause I'm walking through here, you know, and I-I just... 266 00:11:56,740 --> 00:11:58,626 you know, I'm just seeing. I can... 267 00:11:58,650 --> 00:12:00,120 I almost, um, channel him, 268 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,190 - his spirit into this room. - Yeah. 269 00:12:02,390 --> 00:12:03,540 He had us prepared. 270 00:12:03,740 --> 00:12:05,576 - We were prepared. - No question. 271 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,200 And he would come in ready to go. 272 00:12:07,270 --> 00:12:09,380 He was the kind of individual that, uh, 273 00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:11,720 had a awesome work ethic. 274 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,840 The process was 275 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:15,370 quite a, uh, adventure 276 00:12:15,570 --> 00:12:17,851 'cause most people forget that the first single 277 00:12:18,010 --> 00:12:19,756 from the album was "The Girl Is Mine." 278 00:12:22,680 --> 00:12:25,460 Obviously, you had no bigger star in the world 279 00:12:25,660 --> 00:12:26,820 than Paul McCartney. 280 00:12:27,020 --> 00:12:28,846 And, you know, the pairing of Michael and Paul, 281 00:12:28,870 --> 00:12:31,820 what better flag waver to get a project started? 282 00:12:32,020 --> 00:12:34,606 ♪ Every night, she walks right in my dreams ♪ 283 00:12:34,630 --> 00:12:37,930 ♪ Since I met her from the start ♪ 284 00:12:38,130 --> 00:12:40,700 ♪ I'm so proud I am the only one ♪ 285 00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:43,170 ♪ Who is special in her heart ♪ 286 00:12:43,370 --> 00:12:45,460 ♪ The girl is mine ♪ 287 00:12:45,660 --> 00:12:48,100 Yeah, hit it, John. Hit it, John. 288 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,760 ♪ The doggone girl is mine... ♪ 289 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,480 So we get the call. 290 00:12:53,580 --> 00:12:55,206 It's, like, Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson. 291 00:12:55,230 --> 00:12:57,586 I mean, it just didn't get any bigger than that, 292 00:12:57,610 --> 00:12:59,470 so we were kind of like, 293 00:12:59,670 --> 00:13:01,500 "Oh, holy shit. What are we gonna do? 294 00:13:01,700 --> 00:13:03,160 What's this gonna be all about?" 295 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,710 When Paul McCartney walked in the room, 296 00:13:05,910 --> 00:13:07,840 there was a palpable change of energy of: 297 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,000 "Oh, my God, that's Paul McCartney." 298 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,260 ♪ Saying that she's yours, not mine ♪ 299 00:13:13,460 --> 00:13:16,240 ♪ Sending roses and your silly dreams ♪ 300 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,220 ♪ Really just a waste of time ♪ 301 00:13:18,420 --> 00:13:20,620 ♪ Because she's mine ♪ 302 00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:23,460 - Beautiful. Whew! - Yeah. 303 00:13:23,660 --> 00:13:25,136 ♪ The doggone girl is mine ♪ 304 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,556 Do that one more time, man, from the second verse. 305 00:13:27,580 --> 00:13:29,176 Uh, that was a wonderful day. 306 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,426 For me, it was a day that changed my life. 307 00:13:31,450 --> 00:13:34,220 I was in the presence of the greatest, 308 00:13:34,420 --> 00:13:35,970 most successful people 309 00:13:36,170 --> 00:13:37,300 in the music business. 310 00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:40,330 Paul McCartney, Michael Jackson, Quincy Jones. 311 00:13:40,530 --> 00:13:42,390 George Martin was there. 312 00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:44,716 Because of its catchy melody, 313 00:13:44,740 --> 00:13:47,616 many think "The Girl Is Mine" was written by Paul McCartney, 314 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,650 when, in fact, it was composed by Michael Jackson. 315 00:13:50,850 --> 00:13:53,260 ♪ Really just a waste of time ♪ 316 00:13:53,460 --> 00:13:55,380 ♪ Because she's mine... ♪ 317 00:13:55,580 --> 00:13:57,300 Once the music started flowing, 318 00:13:57,500 --> 00:13:59,450 it was like here's two old friends. 319 00:14:06,110 --> 00:14:07,576 ♪ The girl is mine ♪ 320 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,136 ♪ Mine, mine ♪ 321 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,156 ♪ Yes, she's mine ♪ 322 00:14:11,180 --> 00:14:13,346 - ♪ Mine, mine ♪ - ♪ Don't waste ♪ 323 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,396 ♪ But we both cannot have her ♪ 324 00:14:16,420 --> 00:14:19,260 ♪ So it's one or the other ♪ 325 00:14:19,460 --> 00:14:21,760 ♪ And one day you'll discover ♪ 326 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,060 ♪ That she's my girl forever and ever ♪ 327 00:14:25,260 --> 00:14:28,021 ♪ Don't build your hopes to be let down... ♪ 328 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,360 Coming out of Off the Wall, 329 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:31,590 the challenge was: 330 00:14:31,790 --> 00:14:33,426 Is Michael Jackson really a pop star, 331 00:14:33,450 --> 00:14:34,996 or is he just a big R and B artist? 332 00:14:35,020 --> 00:14:36,900 ♪ Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, whoo ♪ 333 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:38,836 The way it worked was that 334 00:14:38,860 --> 00:14:40,896 you were a Black artist until you weren't, 335 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,970 and you weren't when you got on the pop charts. 336 00:14:44,170 --> 00:14:45,170 Michael told me 337 00:14:45,220 --> 00:14:47,560 "The Girl Is Mine" was his sneak attack. 338 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,650 He knew he wanted to cross over, and what better way to do it 339 00:14:50,850 --> 00:14:52,540 than to have Paul McCartney? 340 00:14:52,740 --> 00:14:54,246 I've heard it all before, Michael. 341 00:14:54,270 --> 00:14:56,366 She told me that I'm her forever lover, you know? 342 00:14:56,390 --> 00:14:57,390 Don't you remember? 343 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:58,956 Well, after loving me, 344 00:14:58,980 --> 00:15:00,720 she said she couldn't love another. 345 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:01,960 Is that what she said? 346 00:15:02,020 --> 00:15:03,780 Yeah, she said it. You keep dreaming. 347 00:15:03,940 --> 00:15:06,426 - ♪ I don't believe it, no ♪ - ♪ Mine, mine ♪ 348 00:15:06,450 --> 00:15:09,500 - ♪ The girl is mine ♪ - ♪ Mine, mine, mine ♪ 349 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:11,306 - ♪ No, mine ♪ - ♪ No, mine ♪ 350 00:15:11,330 --> 00:15:13,570 ♪ She's mine, mine, mine, mine, mine ♪ 351 00:15:13,770 --> 00:15:15,556 ♪ Mine, mine, mine... ♪ 352 00:15:15,580 --> 00:15:17,096 So, that initial session 353 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,780 with Michael and Paul happens in April. 354 00:15:19,980 --> 00:15:22,830 The actual formal sessions for Thriller 355 00:15:23,020 --> 00:15:24,666 didn't start for a couple months later. 356 00:15:24,690 --> 00:15:28,970 Yeah, Michael, uh, did the demos at-at his home studio. 357 00:15:29,890 --> 00:15:33,310 Quincy invited me to go to Michael's house 358 00:15:33,510 --> 00:15:35,170 to listen to some demos. 359 00:15:35,370 --> 00:15:36,900 What I didn't realize was that 360 00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:39,630 we would be given our own private world premiere 361 00:15:39,830 --> 00:15:42,186 of "Billie Jean," "Beat It," "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'." 362 00:15:42,210 --> 00:15:44,430 ♪ "Beat It" (demo) by Michael Jackson ♪ 363 00:15:44,630 --> 00:15:45,630 ♪ Beat it ♪ 364 00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:47,300 ♪ But you're driving me mad ♪ 365 00:15:47,450 --> 00:15:50,730 - ♪ So beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 366 00:15:50,930 --> 00:15:53,560 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 367 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,550 ♪ Showing how funky, strong is your fight ♪ 368 00:15:57,750 --> 00:16:00,650 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 369 00:16:00,850 --> 00:16:04,510 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 370 00:16:04,710 --> 00:16:06,850 ♪ No one wants to be defeated... ♪ 371 00:16:07,050 --> 00:16:09,046 Well, the songwriting process 372 00:16:09,070 --> 00:16:11,560 is something that's very difficult to explain 373 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,240 because it's very spiritual. 374 00:16:13,370 --> 00:16:15,650 ♪ Who's wrong or right, just beat it... ♪ 375 00:16:15,850 --> 00:16:19,440 It's, uh... it really is in the hands of God, 376 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,130 and it's as if it's been written already. 377 00:16:22,330 --> 00:16:23,700 That's the real truth. 378 00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:26,890 As if it's been written in its entirety before you were born 379 00:16:27,090 --> 00:16:29,390 and you're just really the source 380 00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:31,390 through which the songs come. 381 00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:33,270 Really, because they're... 382 00:16:33,470 --> 00:16:35,920 they just fall right into your lap in its entirety. 383 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,550 You don't have to do much, uh, thinking about it. 384 00:16:40,750 --> 00:16:44,740 And I feel guilty having to put my name sometimes on the songs, 385 00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:46,660 but I-I do write them. 386 00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:49,850 I compose them. I write them. I-I do the scoring. 387 00:16:50,050 --> 00:16:51,930 I do the lyrics. I do the melody. 388 00:16:52,130 --> 00:16:55,600 But still it's, uh... it's the work of God. 389 00:16:55,810 --> 00:16:57,136 "Startin' Somethin'" was wild. You know, 390 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,000 he had all this... 391 00:17:01,390 --> 00:17:03,550 "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" 392 00:17:03,730 --> 00:17:07,200 has the frenetic percussion of Off the Wall, 393 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:08,680 which is amazing because 394 00:17:08,780 --> 00:17:10,966 it's like, you have these incredibly tight drum grooves 395 00:17:10,990 --> 00:17:12,790 and these programmed beats now. 396 00:17:12,990 --> 00:17:14,750 I think that's why, for-for me, 397 00:17:14,950 --> 00:17:17,346 "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" is still my favorite. 398 00:17:17,370 --> 00:17:21,440 I remember just, uh, uh, being able to go out and do the demo 399 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,056 - at Hayvenhurst, yeah. - Mm-hmm. 400 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:24,876 He had it before we got there, 401 00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:26,286 and then h-he just, you know, 402 00:17:26,310 --> 00:17:27,956 shared it with us and we worked out the parts. 403 00:17:27,980 --> 00:17:29,336 And we just had to perfect it, 404 00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:31,236 because it's so rhythmic and all that. 405 00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:33,336 And so he knew the sound, he knew the... 406 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:36,960 the rhythm that he wanted to hear and everything, 407 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,000 so like I said, we were quick. 408 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,630 - ♪ Too low to get under ♪ - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 409 00:17:41,830 --> 00:17:43,170 ♪ Stuck in the middle ♪ 410 00:17:43,370 --> 00:17:45,126 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ And the pain is thunder ♪ 411 00:17:45,150 --> 00:17:46,890 - ♪ Yeah ♪ - ♪ Hard to get over ♪ 412 00:17:56,290 --> 00:17:59,380 There's a certain approach, you know, you want to take to... 413 00:17:59,580 --> 00:18:01,440 you know, to emphasize the feeling. 414 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:06,860 I would say that Quincy helped glue those elements together 415 00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:08,876 and make an arc out of the progression 416 00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:13,020 of how the song started to... to the vamp at the end, 417 00:18:13,220 --> 00:18:15,426 and made it seamless, you know, including horns, 418 00:18:15,450 --> 00:18:17,370 which, of course, at-at first thought, 419 00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:19,006 would be considered too jazzy, 420 00:18:19,030 --> 00:18:21,176 but they blended perfectly well in the song later on. 421 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,320 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ Too high to get over ♪ 422 00:18:23,410 --> 00:18:25,326 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ You're too low to get under ♪ 423 00:18:25,350 --> 00:18:27,536 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ You're stuck in the middle ♪ 424 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,180 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ And the pain is thunder... ♪ 425 00:18:30,380 --> 00:18:34,350 But there's still that... 426 00:18:39,910 --> 00:18:41,690 And then at the end, 427 00:18:41,890 --> 00:18:43,306 when it goes a cappella to... 428 00:18:43,330 --> 00:18:45,090 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 429 00:18:45,290 --> 00:18:47,260 That, as a DJ... that is your best friend 430 00:18:47,460 --> 00:18:51,680 because then you start to mix in your next record 431 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:53,816 and blending in whatever the biggest songs you have. 432 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,526 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 433 00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,466 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 434 00:18:59,490 --> 00:19:01,326 - ♪ Hee, hee, hee ♪ - ♪ Mama se, mama sa ♪ 435 00:19:01,350 --> 00:19:03,156 - ♪ Ma-ma coo sa ♪ - ♪ Help me sing it ♪ 436 00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:04,900 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 437 00:19:04,930 --> 00:19:06,536 - ♪ Hoo, hoo ♪ - ♪ Mama se, mama sa ♪ 438 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,160 - ♪ Ma-ma coo sa ♪ - ♪ Hee, hee ♪ 439 00:19:08,230 --> 00:19:09,916 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 440 00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:11,546 ♪ Mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa ♪ 441 00:19:11,570 --> 00:19:13,226 - ♪ Sing it to the world ♪ - ♪ Mama se, mama sa... ♪ 442 00:19:13,250 --> 00:19:14,796 As a matter of fact, I asked him 443 00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:16,276 what "mama se, mama sa, ma-ma coo sa" meant, 444 00:19:16,300 --> 00:19:18,040 you know, while it was going down. 445 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:19,886 He... "Well, it don't mean nothing. 446 00:19:19,910 --> 00:19:21,216 Just sing it, you know," and... 447 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:22,866 Yeah, and there it is, 448 00:19:22,890 --> 00:19:24,886 because that was difficult to do, I'm telling you. 449 00:19:24,910 --> 00:19:27,050 He said, "I like singing with you all 450 00:19:27,250 --> 00:19:29,130 because you sound like me." 451 00:19:29,330 --> 00:19:31,780 He always thought our voices blended so well 452 00:19:31,980 --> 00:19:34,086 - with-with his. - Mm-hmm. 453 00:19:34,110 --> 00:19:35,416 "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'" 454 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,240 was like... it was like an opportunity 455 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:38,870 to kind of get into his mind. 456 00:19:39,070 --> 00:19:42,960 And this idea of, like, "Billie Jean" 457 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,860 and the fact that he was living kind of in this... 458 00:19:46,060 --> 00:19:47,090 this world where 459 00:19:47,290 --> 00:19:49,146 you didn't really know what was real or wasn't. 460 00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:52,870 ♪ She told me I was a lonely man ♪ 461 00:19:53,070 --> 00:19:54,280 ♪ And I felt sad ♪ 462 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,990 ♪ She called my name, then she said hello ♪ 463 00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:59,640 ♪ All them who died ♪ 464 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,750 ♪ And I sit in a cup in a ride ♪ 465 00:20:06,250 --> 00:20:08,360 ♪ It seems that you ♪ 466 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,240 My mom had just bought 467 00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:18,680 a stereo system, and it had lights. 468 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:19,890 The drums kicked in. 469 00:20:23,730 --> 00:20:25,460 And then... 470 00:20:25,660 --> 00:20:27,170 I mean... What? 471 00:20:27,370 --> 00:20:30,440 And I ran down the hallway just to hear closely 472 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,610 what was... what was playing, what this record was. 473 00:20:33,810 --> 00:20:35,746 And it was "Billie Jean," and it was on 474 00:20:35,770 --> 00:20:37,130 and poppin' from there. 475 00:20:37,210 --> 00:20:40,500 It's actually kind of nasty, and you can hear the room mics 476 00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:42,060 and it's dirtier than you think. 477 00:20:42,110 --> 00:20:43,506 You know, you always have that moment where 478 00:20:43,530 --> 00:20:45,446 you fall in love with an artist for the first time. 479 00:20:45,470 --> 00:20:48,300 Really truly great, legendary artists, 480 00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:51,860 you have that same feeling over and over and over again. 481 00:20:52,060 --> 00:20:53,540 "Billie Jean" was that moment 482 00:20:53,670 --> 00:20:56,510 where I fell in love with Michael all over again. 483 00:21:01,930 --> 00:21:03,290 When Michael sings it, 484 00:21:03,490 --> 00:21:08,000 he puts the funk into it the way he does all the... 485 00:21:10,390 --> 00:21:12,720 and all the little stuff that he puts in. 486 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:14,336 That gives it the syncopation. 487 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:16,800 And if I just go... 488 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,450 he's gonna go... 489 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,870 ♪ She was more like a beauty queen ♪ 490 00:21:24,070 --> 00:21:25,616 ♪ From a movie scene ♪ 491 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,346 ♪ I said, "Don't mind ♪ 492 00:21:27,370 --> 00:21:30,050 ♪ But what do you mean I am the one ♪ 493 00:21:30,250 --> 00:21:35,170 ♪ Who will dance on the floor in the round?" ♪ 494 00:21:36,050 --> 00:21:38,580 ♪ She said I am the one ♪ 495 00:21:38,770 --> 00:21:42,100 ♪ Who will dance on the floor in the round ♪ 496 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,270 ♪ She told me her name was Billie Jean ♪ 497 00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:49,790 ♪ As she caused a scene ♪ 498 00:21:49,970 --> 00:21:51,290 ♪ Then every head turned ♪ 499 00:21:51,390 --> 00:21:52,920 ♪ With eyes that dreamed... ♪ 500 00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:55,570 Everybody loves toxic R and B. 501 00:21:55,770 --> 00:21:58,760 "Billie Jean is not my lover. She's just a girl 502 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:00,256 who claims that I am the one"? 503 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,126 Yeah, that's like, was it his side chick? 504 00:22:02,150 --> 00:22:04,386 You know what I'm saying? Was it some chick who, 505 00:22:04,410 --> 00:22:06,466 you know, he had an encounter with and got pregnant? 506 00:22:06,490 --> 00:22:08,730 Is this real, or is this some delusional fan 507 00:22:08,930 --> 00:22:11,320 who is saying that, you know, 508 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,710 they had an encounter that they did or didn't? 509 00:22:13,910 --> 00:22:15,270 All of those things just led you 510 00:22:15,330 --> 00:22:18,910 to be more intrigued about an artist, right? 511 00:22:19,110 --> 00:22:22,220 But it was, like, urgent and R and B. 512 00:22:22,420 --> 00:22:24,086 It was... it was crazy. It was a... 513 00:22:24,110 --> 00:22:26,116 an amazing R and B record, and his lyrics... 514 00:22:26,140 --> 00:22:28,330 you know, "The kid is not my son," I mean... 515 00:22:28,530 --> 00:22:31,360 ♪ The kid is not my son... ♪ 516 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,280 "The kid is not my son." 517 00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:36,340 That first... well, that... we-we like bad boys, 518 00:22:36,540 --> 00:22:38,126 so that made us love him some more. 519 00:22:38,150 --> 00:22:40,870 And then when I saw the video, I was losing my mind. 520 00:22:41,070 --> 00:22:42,720 I lost my voice, screaming. 521 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:44,930 You know, it was about "Billie Jean." 522 00:22:45,130 --> 00:22:47,716 You know, him stepping on, you know, the-the pavement, 523 00:22:47,740 --> 00:22:51,290 it glowing and, you know, making you feel the magic. 524 00:22:51,490 --> 00:22:54,370 I'd storyboarded that, uh, he would walk down the, uh... 525 00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:56,576 the street and the paving stones would light up. 526 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,436 And I showed him which 11 paving stones 527 00:22:58,460 --> 00:22:59,910 we could afford to have light up 528 00:23:00,110 --> 00:23:01,930 and therefore which ones couldn't. 529 00:23:02,130 --> 00:23:03,376 And he looked carefully at them, 530 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,316 and-and I said, "Well, should we rehearse it?" 531 00:23:05,340 --> 00:23:07,460 And he said, "No, let-let's just do it." 532 00:23:07,660 --> 00:23:10,080 And we ran the playback, the music, 533 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,770 and the chorus kicked in for "Billie Jean," 534 00:23:12,970 --> 00:23:15,280 and he began his dance movement 535 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,346 down that street, and I'll never forget it. 536 00:23:17,370 --> 00:23:19,130 The-the camera actually steamed up. 537 00:23:19,190 --> 00:23:21,856 I could hardly even see him through the-the eyepiece 538 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:22,890 because it was 539 00:23:23,090 --> 00:23:24,790 so exciting to watch. 540 00:23:24,990 --> 00:23:27,180 Michael is doing so much moving 541 00:23:27,380 --> 00:23:30,370 that Steve isn't even getting. 542 00:23:30,570 --> 00:23:32,346 There are several shots in "Billie Jean" 543 00:23:32,370 --> 00:23:35,690 where he's just being shot from the waist up 544 00:23:35,890 --> 00:23:38,700 and you can just see him doing all kinds of stuff. 545 00:23:38,890 --> 00:23:39,890 And it's like, 546 00:23:39,980 --> 00:23:41,316 "Why aren't you getting that?" 547 00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:43,180 But that's just how new 548 00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:47,220 the medium was to capturing dancers. 549 00:23:47,420 --> 00:23:49,160 Michael opened the door for that. 550 00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:50,710 ♪ I am the one... ♪ 551 00:23:50,910 --> 00:23:53,176 And every time they just kept freezing him in those brackets, 552 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,240 and every time he'd walk, they froze him. 553 00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:56,806 And every time he said something, 554 00:23:56,830 --> 00:23:59,760 I just was losing my mind 'cause I loved him so much. 555 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:01,070 But on "Billie Jean," 556 00:24:01,270 --> 00:24:04,260 we was like, "Oh, he is super-duper-duper sexy." 557 00:24:04,460 --> 00:24:06,910 - ♪ Not my lover ♪ - ♪ Don't call me, Billie Jean ♪ 558 00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:09,140 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover... ♪ 559 00:24:09,340 --> 00:24:12,370 MTV refused to play "Billie Jean." 560 00:24:12,570 --> 00:24:14,980 They said, "Well, our network appeals to, 561 00:24:15,180 --> 00:24:16,556 you know, white teenagers, 562 00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:19,380 and this just really doesn't fit our format." 563 00:24:19,580 --> 00:24:20,900 ♪ hard rock guitar riff ♪ 564 00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:22,680 This is it. 565 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,950 Welcome to MTV Music Television. 566 00:24:25,150 --> 00:24:26,150 I'm Mark Goodman. 567 00:24:26,340 --> 00:24:27,986 - I'm Martha Quinn. - I'm Alan Hunter. 568 00:24:28,010 --> 00:24:30,106 You'll never look at music the same way again. 569 00:24:30,130 --> 00:24:31,580 Turn it on! Leave it on! 570 00:24:31,780 --> 00:24:35,040 America, see the music you want to see. 571 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,630 I want my MTV. 572 00:24:36,830 --> 00:24:39,030 Some prominent Black musicians are complaining 573 00:24:39,180 --> 00:24:41,346 that they are being left out of the video market, 574 00:24:41,370 --> 00:24:43,950 specifically the Music Television cable operation. 575 00:24:44,150 --> 00:24:46,720 It-it occurred to me, having watched MTV 576 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,440 over the last few months, um, that it's-it's got a... 577 00:24:49,570 --> 00:24:52,730 it's a solid enterprise and it's got a lot going for it. 578 00:24:52,930 --> 00:24:55,596 I'm just floored by the fact that there's so many Bl... 579 00:24:55,620 --> 00:24:57,710 so few Black artists featured on it. 580 00:24:57,910 --> 00:24:59,070 Why is that? 581 00:24:59,270 --> 00:25:02,400 The fact is, quite frankly, we're a rock and roll station. 582 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,090 MTV will deny this till the world ends, 583 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:09,450 that they had nothing against Black artists. 584 00:25:09,650 --> 00:25:13,500 But they refused to, uh, play Michael. 585 00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:16,000 In 1975, I was named 586 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,270 president of the CBS Records Group 587 00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:21,190 and a vice president of CBS, Inc. 588 00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:25,070 No single record changed the business and my life 589 00:25:25,270 --> 00:25:28,910 as powerfully as Michael Jackson's Thriller. 590 00:25:29,110 --> 00:25:30,890 I screamed bloody murder 591 00:25:31,090 --> 00:25:33,520 when MTV refused to air his videos. 592 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,270 They argued that their format, white rock, 593 00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:38,150 excluded Michael's music. 594 00:25:38,350 --> 00:25:40,400 I argued they were racist assholes. 595 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,650 So Walter Yetnikoff said, 596 00:25:42,850 --> 00:25:43,860 "Really? Okay. 597 00:25:44,060 --> 00:25:45,456 If you don't play Michael Jackson, 598 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,760 I'm pulling Billy Joel and everybody else that I have, 599 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,040 uh, off of MTV." 600 00:25:50,230 --> 00:25:52,296 I've never been more forceful 601 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:53,540 or obnoxious. 602 00:25:53,740 --> 00:25:55,460 I've also never been as effective. 603 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,630 With added pressure from Quincy Jones, they caved in, 604 00:25:58,830 --> 00:26:03,130 and in doing so, the MTV color line came crashing down. 605 00:26:03,330 --> 00:26:04,996 One of the most important 606 00:26:05,020 --> 00:26:07,720 things about Thriller was the doors that it opened 607 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:11,310 for other artists to have the opportunity 608 00:26:11,510 --> 00:26:12,950 to get on the pop charts. 609 00:26:13,150 --> 00:26:16,020 Tina Turner. My God, Private Dancer. 610 00:26:16,220 --> 00:26:17,290 That's who it was. 611 00:26:17,490 --> 00:26:19,810 It was Tina, it was Lionel, it was Whitney, 612 00:26:20,010 --> 00:26:22,190 it was Michael and Prince. 613 00:26:22,390 --> 00:26:24,170 Revenues could just be crazy. 614 00:26:26,790 --> 00:26:29,010 Thriller changes the dynamic 615 00:26:29,210 --> 00:26:30,600 and the culture. 616 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:33,410 Michael shows the way that this is possible. 617 00:26:33,610 --> 00:26:35,410 Yeah, I-I grew up, uh, 618 00:26:35,610 --> 00:26:39,210 during the time that Thriller was released, 619 00:26:39,410 --> 00:26:43,380 and MTV was just becoming a really big thing. 620 00:26:43,580 --> 00:26:46,450 I remember almost more vividly 621 00:26:46,650 --> 00:26:50,300 the amazing storytelling through the videos, 622 00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:52,966 which is pretty interesting 'cause I think here we are 623 00:26:52,990 --> 00:26:56,460 40 years later, and the music and the video 624 00:26:56,660 --> 00:26:59,980 is coming to life again for the next generation 625 00:27:00,180 --> 00:27:01,180 on TikTok. 626 00:27:01,350 --> 00:27:03,880 Michael Jackson's music has been available 627 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,900 on TikTok since August 2020. 628 00:27:07,100 --> 00:27:09,340 I think there's a real rebirth 629 00:27:09,540 --> 00:27:13,580 of the music and the video from these songs on the album. 630 00:27:13,780 --> 00:27:16,890 And it is this new generation that's being exposed 631 00:27:17,090 --> 00:27:19,440 or engaging with the music. 632 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,400 There are about ten million 633 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,320 video creations on TikTok right now 634 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,920 that include music from Thriller. 635 00:27:28,120 --> 00:27:31,160 There are 17 billion views 636 00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:34,560 of those ten million videos that exist. 637 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,330 There are about two billion likes on those videos, 638 00:27:39,530 --> 00:27:41,440 so people putting a little thumbs-up 639 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,280 or sharing or doing something to say, "I'm excited about this. 640 00:27:45,470 --> 00:27:47,840 I'm engaging with this-this music." 641 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:49,280 Pretty massive numbers. 642 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,186 They're hearing it for the first time. 643 00:27:51,210 --> 00:27:52,316 They're-they're like... 644 00:27:52,340 --> 00:27:53,626 You know, it's-it's the same feeling 645 00:27:53,650 --> 00:27:55,730 we maybe had when we watched the MTV video 646 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,890 for "Thriller" or "Beat It." 647 00:27:58,390 --> 00:28:01,400 They're having that same experience 40 years later, 648 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,446 but rather than just watch, they're actually 649 00:28:03,470 --> 00:28:07,730 then making something to engage with that music. 650 00:28:09,650 --> 00:28:11,476 I was kind of upset about 651 00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:15,470 the news I heard about MTV and how they weren't showing Blacks, 652 00:28:15,670 --> 00:28:16,990 and that kind of hurt me. 653 00:28:17,170 --> 00:28:20,230 So I wanted to do something that was so powerful, 654 00:28:20,430 --> 00:28:24,790 so strong that everybody would have to show it. 655 00:28:24,990 --> 00:28:27,440 But I wanted to tell a strong story. 656 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,360 The story had to sell itself. 657 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,360 And what... these so-called videos weren't doing that. 658 00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:34,816 They were terrible. They were just a lot of nothing 659 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,620 put together just to sell a song. 660 00:28:36,820 --> 00:28:38,540 I wanted my things to be powerful. 661 00:28:38,570 --> 00:28:40,446 I wanted to stand out from everything else 662 00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:42,430 that when you see it, you run to the set 663 00:28:42,510 --> 00:28:44,310 and you're glued to it, watching it. 664 00:28:44,410 --> 00:28:45,926 I wanted quality. I wanted excellence. 665 00:28:45,950 --> 00:28:49,070 I wanted the best. I wanted to perfect perfection. 666 00:28:49,270 --> 00:28:50,860 One thing that I can 667 00:28:51,060 --> 00:28:52,126 always say about Michael 668 00:28:52,150 --> 00:28:54,590 is that you felt like there was a sense of culture. 669 00:28:54,710 --> 00:28:56,700 And the culture would span all the way 670 00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:01,460 from kind of like this Broadway, you know, more theatrical world, 671 00:29:01,660 --> 00:29:04,500 and then there was this other element that was cultural, 672 00:29:04,700 --> 00:29:06,360 that was almost like gangsters. 673 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,560 You know, when you look at "Beat It" 674 00:29:20,740 --> 00:29:23,520 and the idea that the people of that era felt like, 675 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,730 "Oh, he's speaking to us and with us. 676 00:29:25,930 --> 00:29:28,650 He's rocking with us. He's making music for us. 677 00:29:28,850 --> 00:29:31,030 We can dance to his music." 678 00:29:44,620 --> 00:29:46,710 It was an incredible move to decide, 679 00:29:46,910 --> 00:29:49,420 "We're gonna have a rock and roll record 680 00:29:49,620 --> 00:29:50,630 on this thing." 681 00:29:50,830 --> 00:29:53,280 "Beat It" was straight up rock and roll. 682 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:54,996 Michael's idea with "Beat It" 683 00:29:55,020 --> 00:29:57,160 was to distance himself from Off the Wall, 684 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:58,700 from the dance, disco. 685 00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:00,336 And Michael wanted to stretch. 686 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,856 Creatively, he wanted to stretch. 687 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,316 They wanted a crossover hit across the board. 688 00:30:04,340 --> 00:30:06,290 Rock, R and B, pop. 689 00:30:06,490 --> 00:30:09,560 They called me to come in with Michael and Quincy 690 00:30:09,770 --> 00:30:13,110 to do the... 691 00:30:13,650 --> 00:30:15,626 They want to go rock and roll, let's do it. 692 00:30:15,650 --> 00:30:18,760 You know, so I did it with all... you know, all-all that, 693 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:20,646 doubled it and made it sound huge. 694 00:30:20,670 --> 00:30:22,670 And then I played the bass on it as well. 695 00:30:22,740 --> 00:30:24,580 I did play bass on that record as well. 696 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,330 So I sat with them and made that swing, 697 00:30:27,530 --> 00:30:29,386 and when Michael was dancing in the room, 698 00:30:29,410 --> 00:30:30,636 I knew I was in the pocket. 699 00:30:30,660 --> 00:30:32,016 When he wrote "Beat It," 700 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,690 he said, "I want a kind of guitar player on here 701 00:30:34,890 --> 00:30:39,840 that will attract young, white, teenage males." 702 00:30:40,050 --> 00:30:41,090 Eddie Van Halen. 703 00:30:41,590 --> 00:30:43,856 He said, "Well, what do you want me to do?" 704 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:45,000 And Quincy said, "Well, 705 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,290 I want you to be you. 706 00:30:46,490 --> 00:30:47,846 That's you right there." And he pointed 707 00:30:47,870 --> 00:30:49,806 to the famous, you know, Strat that he had. 708 00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:52,390 And he said, "I'm not gonna tell you what to play. 709 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:53,520 You go be you." 710 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:54,956 I mean, Eddie ripped 711 00:30:54,980 --> 00:30:56,746 these solos off one after the other. 712 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,806 I remember, like, hearing 713 00:31:12,830 --> 00:31:14,300 the sound coming from Studio A, 714 00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:16,130 where he was doing the-the solo. 715 00:31:16,330 --> 00:31:17,380 It was so loud. 716 00:31:17,580 --> 00:31:18,680 I could... I just... 717 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:19,880 It was just so loud. 718 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,740 Bruce Swedien and Quincy brilliantly 719 00:31:22,940 --> 00:31:24,600 edited that solo together. 720 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,680 I mean, I think I probably just loved it 721 00:31:26,780 --> 00:31:28,616 'cause, at that moment, it was probably everything 722 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,730 that I ever loved in one song, you know? 723 00:31:30,930 --> 00:31:32,900 I've done way more time googling 724 00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:37,510 Lukather's tone on "Beat It" than, um, Eddie Van Halen's, 725 00:31:37,710 --> 00:31:39,720 because it's the tone that drives 726 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,336 the whole record... that's the riff. 727 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,260 It's the perfect way that, like, a rock guitar could ever sit 728 00:31:45,460 --> 00:31:47,680 over programmed drums in a... in a... 729 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,250 like, a funky groove. 730 00:31:49,450 --> 00:31:50,986 I thought his videos were incredible. 731 00:31:51,010 --> 00:31:52,846 I mean, first off, the guy could dance. 732 00:31:52,870 --> 00:31:54,176 I mean, just being in the room, 733 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,480 watching him groove while we're playing. 734 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:57,826 That short film... 735 00:31:57,850 --> 00:31:59,146 you see, this whole movie, 736 00:31:59,170 --> 00:32:01,396 it's about a big fight that's about to happen, right, 737 00:32:01,420 --> 00:32:02,820 between two rival gangs, right? 738 00:32:16,890 --> 00:32:19,490 He saw value in street culture. 739 00:32:19,690 --> 00:32:21,490 He wanted to try to figure out a way 740 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,010 on how to incorporate it, and... 741 00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:25,430 and the beginning of it was "Beat It." 742 00:32:25,630 --> 00:32:27,150 The people that you see 743 00:32:27,260 --> 00:32:31,770 in that film are a mixture of dancers and street cats. 744 00:32:31,970 --> 00:32:33,480 And not only that 745 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,540 is that you actually had real gangsters on set. 746 00:32:36,750 --> 00:32:38,340 Like, real Bloods and Crips 747 00:32:38,540 --> 00:32:40,720 and Vatos and all that, like, for real. 748 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,680 There was such a magic 749 00:32:42,710 --> 00:32:44,106 in Michael and his movement. 750 00:32:44,130 --> 00:32:47,100 ♪ No one wants to be defeated, oh, Lord ♪ 751 00:32:47,300 --> 00:32:50,560 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 752 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,710 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 753 00:32:53,910 --> 00:32:55,380 ♪ Just beat it... ♪ 754 00:32:55,580 --> 00:32:56,716 You had B-boying 755 00:32:56,740 --> 00:32:58,190 that was going on in New York. 756 00:32:58,390 --> 00:32:59,656 You had popping and locking 757 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,306 that was going down over here in California, 758 00:33:01,330 --> 00:33:04,610 and strutting and-and robotting, all them. 759 00:33:04,810 --> 00:33:06,290 So the guy that's vibrating 760 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,160 in the "Beat It" short film with the... with the glasses on, 761 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:10,520 his name is Robot Dane. 762 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:11,980 This is the first ever 763 00:33:12,180 --> 00:33:14,960 street dance wave of the United States of America. 764 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,230 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 765 00:33:18,430 --> 00:33:19,676 ♪ It doesn't matter... ♪ 766 00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:21,260 The most relevant scene 767 00:33:21,330 --> 00:33:25,970 at the time, which either was breakdancing, locking, 768 00:33:26,170 --> 00:33:28,790 popping, waving, whatever it might have been, 769 00:33:28,980 --> 00:33:30,720 he's pushing the envelope forward, 770 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,796 he's teaching us some things, he's informing us as artists, 771 00:33:33,820 --> 00:33:35,830 but also, too, as performers, 772 00:33:36,030 --> 00:33:39,550 he's letting us know that, "Yo, I want to be the baddest." 773 00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:41,650 As a fan or a critic, 774 00:33:41,850 --> 00:33:44,680 you're always looking for breathtaking moments, 775 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:45,920 the time when you say, 776 00:33:46,020 --> 00:33:47,416 "I've never seen anything like that. 777 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,580 I'm probably not gonna see anything like that again." 778 00:33:50,780 --> 00:33:52,200 The Motown show, 779 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,750 that's what I think was the most important step 780 00:33:54,950 --> 00:33:59,290 in the whole Thriller process of making him the superstar. 781 00:33:59,490 --> 00:34:02,590 ♪ And I'll be there ♪ 782 00:34:02,790 --> 00:34:05,590 - ♪ Whoo! ♪ 783 00:34:07,510 --> 00:34:09,030 Bob Jones was, uh, 784 00:34:09,230 --> 00:34:12,060 vice president of publicity at Motown. 785 00:34:12,260 --> 00:34:13,260 He says, 786 00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:15,540 "We're doing a Motown show." 787 00:34:15,740 --> 00:34:20,730 I rented a tuxedo, and, uh, I went to the show. 788 00:34:20,930 --> 00:34:22,050 People just went crazy. 789 00:34:22,250 --> 00:34:24,130 I was home in front of the TV. 790 00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:27,200 Waiting for him to take us there. 791 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:28,976 First, we didn't know what he was gonna do, 792 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,796 because he was up there with his brothers. 793 00:34:30,820 --> 00:34:32,810 The Jacksons leave, 794 00:34:33,010 --> 00:34:35,620 the brothers leave, and Mike stays out there. 795 00:34:36,910 --> 00:34:38,000 And in the audience, 796 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,250 you could hear just kind of like: 797 00:34:40,450 --> 00:34:43,500 "What's-what's getting ready to happen now?" 798 00:34:49,090 --> 00:34:52,010 And, you know, Mike goes through the whole... 799 00:34:52,210 --> 00:34:54,566 "Those were some great times. I love the-the old songs." 800 00:34:54,590 --> 00:34:56,156 You know, th-those were good songs. 801 00:34:56,180 --> 00:34:57,960 I-I like those songs a lot, 802 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,750 but, especially, I like... 803 00:35:01,950 --> 00:35:03,906 "Billie Jean"! 804 00:35:03,930 --> 00:35:05,616 the new songs. 805 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,630 And then here comes 806 00:35:07,830 --> 00:35:08,910 "Billie Jean." 807 00:35:17,580 --> 00:35:20,540 The tape that you can see 808 00:35:20,740 --> 00:35:22,000 of "Billie Jean" 809 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,760 and the stuff you see going on in the audience, 810 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,300 it does not capture what was happening in that crowd. 811 00:35:31,500 --> 00:35:33,760 These people were going 812 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,970 absolutely berserk. 813 00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:39,670 ♪ Who will dance on the floor in the round? ♪ 814 00:35:39,870 --> 00:35:42,310 Mike just turned it the fuck out. 815 00:35:42,510 --> 00:35:46,320 ♪ People always told me, "Be careful of what you do ♪ 816 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,630 ♪ Don't go around breakin' young girls' hearts" ♪ 817 00:35:49,830 --> 00:35:50,930 ♪ Hee-hee ♪ 818 00:35:51,130 --> 00:35:53,640 ♪ And Mother always told me... ♪ 819 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,810 I mean, he just laid a bomb on that room. 820 00:35:57,010 --> 00:35:59,520 ♪ "'Cause the lie becomes the truth," hey, hey ♪ 821 00:35:59,720 --> 00:36:01,960 ♪ Billie Jean is not my... ♪ 822 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:03,650 I was at that show 823 00:36:03,850 --> 00:36:05,246 at the Pasadena Civic Auditorium. 824 00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:07,866 And he's moving different. He's got his own moves now. 825 00:36:07,890 --> 00:36:10,880 He's not so much doing what-what he learned growing up, 826 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:12,530 and he was excited about it. 827 00:36:12,730 --> 00:36:13,800 ♪ Hee-hee-hee ♪ 828 00:36:15,090 --> 00:36:17,020 We just was happy to see 829 00:36:17,220 --> 00:36:19,060 Michael Jackson perform, period. 830 00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:21,390 Nobody seen the moonwalk coming. 831 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:27,650 ♪ She says I am... ♪ 832 00:36:27,850 --> 00:36:29,266 He does the moonwalk. 833 00:36:29,290 --> 00:36:31,050 That's the breathtaking moment, okay? 834 00:36:31,210 --> 00:36:33,146 And after the show, I couldn't believe it. 835 00:36:33,170 --> 00:36:35,130 I had to go backstage and to ask somebody, 836 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,120 "Was there a special trick floor? 837 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,000 How did he do that?" 838 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,920 You know, this was the performance 839 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,330 that really changed space and time. 840 00:36:45,830 --> 00:36:48,380 A few of his dances, we call 'em timekeepers. 841 00:36:48,580 --> 00:36:51,090 And he created a whole vocabulary of timekeepers, 842 00:36:51,290 --> 00:36:52,730 whether it's with his hip... 843 00:36:55,230 --> 00:36:57,070 or with his... you know, his side, 844 00:36:57,130 --> 00:36:59,600 - stomping with the ankle. - That's right. 845 00:37:00,930 --> 00:37:03,600 Or he'll stomp with the foot. 846 00:37:06,140 --> 00:37:08,360 With that, you can sing. 847 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:09,680 You see what I'm saying? 848 00:37:09,870 --> 00:37:11,116 And it looks like you're dancing. 849 00:37:11,140 --> 00:37:12,436 - But you're really not. - It's an illu... 850 00:37:12,460 --> 00:37:14,100 It's-it's a bit of a trick, right? 851 00:37:14,130 --> 00:37:16,070 And you go... you walk over here. 852 00:37:18,690 --> 00:37:19,690 And switch the mic, 853 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,040 flip the coat, put the hand in the pocket. 854 00:37:22,130 --> 00:37:24,276 You could do a few things here and there that only... 855 00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:27,020 only you can do if you know your song and your music. 856 00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:30,140 You know, when you see 857 00:37:30,310 --> 00:37:32,820 him glide across the floor or pop, 858 00:37:33,020 --> 00:37:34,470 it's a special effect. 859 00:37:34,670 --> 00:37:36,760 He saw magic in that dance. 860 00:37:37,260 --> 00:37:39,450 Look at that... if you pause each moment, 861 00:37:39,650 --> 00:37:41,090 it's an iconic silhouette. 862 00:37:41,170 --> 00:37:44,100 It's the hat, it's the arms, it's the... 863 00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:45,980 it's the tapping of the leg. 864 00:37:46,180 --> 00:37:47,810 Right? The kick. 865 00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:54,800 To see a Black man standing on his toes, 866 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,160 seeing that and not being conscious of it 867 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,060 has made generations of Black, brown, 868 00:38:01,260 --> 00:38:04,810 white, whatever color kids feel like anything was possible. 869 00:38:05,010 --> 00:38:08,940 It's bigger than I think we, uh, think and acknowledge. 870 00:38:10,830 --> 00:38:12,440 After Mike finished, 871 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,160 the producer had to get on the microphone and say, 872 00:38:15,190 --> 00:38:18,120 "Ladies and gentlemen, please, please, 873 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,990 gather yourselves and take your seats. 874 00:38:21,190 --> 00:38:23,020 We have more show to tape. 875 00:38:23,220 --> 00:38:24,930 There's much more show coming." 876 00:38:25,130 --> 00:38:28,310 And it took a minute for people to get their ties back together 877 00:38:28,510 --> 00:38:30,800 and the women to put their wigs back on. 878 00:38:30,990 --> 00:38:32,926 Okay, I have one question for you. 879 00:38:32,950 --> 00:38:34,800 Who was the unfortunate artist 880 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,530 who had to come on... 881 00:38:39,990 --> 00:38:42,450 I don't remember. 882 00:38:46,330 --> 00:38:48,296 I think that was the moment that he had 883 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,150 his breakout moment from the... from the group. 884 00:38:51,350 --> 00:38:53,820 That song, "Billie Jean," 885 00:38:54,020 --> 00:38:56,950 and the way he performed it on that night 886 00:38:57,150 --> 00:38:59,450 set the standard of what it was to be a megastar. 887 00:38:59,650 --> 00:39:02,236 The next day after the show, Fred Astaire called my house. 888 00:39:02,260 --> 00:39:03,946 He said, "I saw the show last night. 889 00:39:03,970 --> 00:39:06,050 I taped it. I watched it twice this morning." 890 00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:07,636 And he said, "You were incredible. 891 00:39:07,660 --> 00:39:09,886 You're a hell of a mover, and you really put them 892 00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:11,690 on their A-S-S," he said. 893 00:39:11,890 --> 00:39:13,056 And I said, "God, thank you. 894 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:14,746 It's so wonderful for you to say that, 895 00:39:14,770 --> 00:39:16,076 'cause I think you're the best." 896 00:39:16,100 --> 00:39:18,990 And that was my r-reward, 'cause I think he's brilliant. 897 00:39:22,940 --> 00:39:24,416 To a classical dancer, 898 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:26,446 it's about your line, it's about the shapes 899 00:39:26,470 --> 00:39:27,810 that you're-you're making. 900 00:39:28,010 --> 00:39:29,540 And Michael does that. 901 00:39:29,740 --> 00:39:32,610 That, to me, is very similar to a trained dancer, 902 00:39:32,810 --> 00:39:34,250 even though he wasn't trained. 903 00:39:34,410 --> 00:39:37,590 He would've been the ideal ballet dancer. 904 00:39:37,790 --> 00:39:39,360 The proportions of his body. 905 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:43,890 He was lean, uh, and long, um, and just had, like, 906 00:39:44,090 --> 00:39:46,200 a natural instinct when he moved. 907 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,730 But there... but there was such precision and clarity. 908 00:39:49,930 --> 00:39:51,270 He was a perfectionist, 909 00:39:51,470 --> 00:39:54,820 and that's what dancers are. 910 00:39:55,020 --> 00:39:57,860 Um, you know, you don't commit that type of time 911 00:39:58,060 --> 00:39:59,610 and sacrifice your body, 912 00:39:59,810 --> 00:40:01,430 the injury, all of those things, 913 00:40:01,630 --> 00:40:04,870 if you don't have the passion for it and the love for it. 914 00:40:05,070 --> 00:40:07,850 And all of that sums up Michael 915 00:40:08,050 --> 00:40:10,520 as a dancer, as a performer, as an artist. 916 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,880 Michael Jackson didn't invent dancing on film, 917 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:15,266 but his particular synthesis 918 00:40:15,290 --> 00:40:17,860 of the Nicholas Brothers on one hand 919 00:40:18,060 --> 00:40:21,950 and Bob Fosse, Astaire, popping, locking, 920 00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:24,070 moonwalking... no one had ever 921 00:40:24,270 --> 00:40:26,296 put those elements together before like that. 922 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,220 You can see it all the way through from 923 00:40:28,420 --> 00:40:30,296 "Billie Jean" and "Beat It" and "Thriller," 924 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,446 all the way through to all of these other artists. 925 00:40:32,470 --> 00:40:35,980 Look at MC Hammer, "U Can't Touch This." 926 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,570 Then you go forward to, like, Usher and Justin Timberlake. 927 00:40:41,150 --> 00:40:43,930 And then you go farther forward to Justin Bieber, 928 00:40:44,130 --> 00:40:46,240 Doja Cat, Bruno Mars. 929 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:47,920 Michael is emulated. 930 00:40:48,070 --> 00:40:51,020 If you look at BTS, you can see it. 931 00:40:52,490 --> 00:40:54,610 I'm all in with BTS. 932 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:55,900 I love those guys. 933 00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:58,900 Every move they do is all Michael Jackson. 934 00:40:59,100 --> 00:41:00,950 Michael created that. 935 00:41:01,140 --> 00:41:03,340 The entire K-pop wave, 936 00:41:03,540 --> 00:41:05,340 they've all studied Michael 937 00:41:05,550 --> 00:41:10,390 in terms of stage clothes, video clothes and stagecraft. 938 00:41:10,590 --> 00:41:13,250 There's a great video if you watch BTS. 939 00:41:13,450 --> 00:41:15,230 There's a lot of Michael Jackson. 940 00:41:15,430 --> 00:41:16,786 You see it in their dancing. 941 00:41:16,810 --> 00:41:19,880 ♪ 'Cause I, I, I'm in the stars tonight ♪ 942 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:24,590 ♪ So watch me bring the fire and set the night alight ♪ 943 00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:29,290 ♪ Shining through the city with a little funk and soul ♪ 944 00:41:29,490 --> 00:41:33,850 ♪ So I'm-a light it up like dynamite, whoa-oh-oh ♪ 945 00:41:34,050 --> 00:41:37,900 ♪ Dyn-na-na-na, na-na-na-na-na, na-na-na, life is dynamite ♪ 946 00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:39,100 ♪ Dyn-na-na-na... ♪ 947 00:41:39,270 --> 00:41:41,440 So, the entire K-pop movement, 948 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,180 they're students of the game. 949 00:41:44,380 --> 00:41:47,410 You can look at a number of millennial hip-hop artists... 950 00:41:47,610 --> 00:41:49,260 Polo G being one of them... 951 00:41:49,460 --> 00:41:52,520 23, 24 years old, from Chicago, 952 00:41:52,720 --> 00:41:55,120 yet he's very much in trance with Michael Jackson 953 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:56,880 and he uses Michael Jackson music 954 00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:58,536 and imagery in some of his music. 955 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:00,460 ♪ Ha, smooth criminal, Mike Jack ♪ 956 00:42:00,660 --> 00:42:03,286 ♪ And I still like to tote a four-five like Mike back ♪ 957 00:42:03,310 --> 00:42:04,876 It was just a night I was riding around, 958 00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:07,146 I was riding in my car, and I was just listening 959 00:42:07,170 --> 00:42:08,780 to Michael Jackson interviews. 960 00:42:08,980 --> 00:42:10,236 I wasn't listening to music. 961 00:42:10,260 --> 00:42:11,626 I was just listening to his interviews. 962 00:42:11,650 --> 00:42:13,406 And I just came up with this idea, like, 963 00:42:13,430 --> 00:42:17,520 maybe I should do, uh, this song and this instrumental 964 00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:19,790 and just really mess everybody head up 965 00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:21,246 'cause I know they wouldn't 966 00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:22,866 be expecting that from a young artist. 967 00:42:22,890 --> 00:42:25,206 ♪ Tell me, Annie, are you okay? Screaming out, "No way" ♪ 968 00:42:25,230 --> 00:42:26,876 ♪ Tell me, Annie, are you okay? ♪ 969 00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:30,930 'Cause I remember my grandma had this same exact album. 970 00:42:31,130 --> 00:42:32,490 My auntie, who was her daughter, 971 00:42:32,570 --> 00:42:34,210 she was a big Michael Jackson fan, 972 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,120 so she always had us listening to him. 973 00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:38,830 So I remember her having this one exactly. 974 00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:40,390 It's pretty wild. 975 00:42:40,450 --> 00:42:44,260 It says how powerful the imagery that Michael created was. 976 00:42:48,590 --> 00:42:49,950 On Thriller, 977 00:42:50,150 --> 00:42:51,950 his life was evolving, you know, 978 00:42:52,150 --> 00:42:55,500 and his vocal approach was different. 979 00:42:55,700 --> 00:42:58,060 There's vocalists, and there's stylists. 980 00:42:58,260 --> 00:42:59,790 Style wins. 981 00:42:59,990 --> 00:43:02,040 When you can hear a person sing 982 00:43:02,250 --> 00:43:04,860 and recognize them fr-from the first couple bars, 983 00:43:05,060 --> 00:43:06,740 you know you got something special. 984 00:43:06,940 --> 00:43:08,106 They have a special tone, 985 00:43:08,130 --> 00:43:09,990 a special voice, a special delivery. 986 00:43:10,190 --> 00:43:11,456 Now, Michael had all of that. 987 00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:13,760 In just the way he loved to dance 988 00:43:13,970 --> 00:43:15,410 and-and he loved to perform, 989 00:43:15,490 --> 00:43:19,440 he turned all of that melody that he was so great with 990 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,110 into percussive melody. 991 00:43:21,310 --> 00:43:23,556 Well, that's what he did. He would sing drum parts. 992 00:43:23,580 --> 00:43:25,090 He would sing bass lines. 993 00:43:25,290 --> 00:43:27,690 He would, uh... all with his rhythmic inflections. 994 00:43:27,810 --> 00:43:29,356 We call it "drums in your mouth." 995 00:43:29,380 --> 00:43:31,456 He would beatbox. He was an amazing beatboxer. 996 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:33,950 But beatbox with melody and sing, you know, 997 00:43:34,150 --> 00:43:35,220 not just beatboxing. 998 00:43:35,420 --> 00:43:37,620 He would, you know, integrate melody with it. 999 00:43:37,740 --> 00:43:39,616 And you can hear it on "Beat It," you know, 1000 00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,250 just the way he would attack each syllable. 1001 00:43:42,450 --> 00:43:45,400 ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ 1002 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,490 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 1003 00:43:49,230 --> 00:43:52,390 ♪ Showin' how funky, strong is your fight ♪ 1004 00:43:52,590 --> 00:43:56,120 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1005 00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,810 ♪ Just beat it ♪ 1006 00:43:59,010 --> 00:44:00,100 ♪ Beat it... ♪ 1007 00:44:00,300 --> 00:44:02,460 I think of all of his melodies and his songs, 1008 00:44:02,660 --> 00:44:04,300 and they're completely percussive. 1009 00:44:04,330 --> 00:44:06,616 I mean, they're incredibly rhythmically hooky, 1010 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,480 and, you know, all those songs, and the songs that he wrote 1011 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,881 have these very aggressive staccato rhythms. 1012 00:44:11,980 --> 00:44:15,080 I feel like "Billie Jean" and "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'," 1013 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:16,640 they're really short and stabby. 1014 00:44:16,740 --> 00:44:18,946 They're always, like... there's a tiny bit of, like, 1015 00:44:18,970 --> 00:44:21,230 anger and, like, contempt in the... in the... 1016 00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:23,096 in the way that he's singing and writing. 1017 00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:25,280 ♪ I know I am someone ♪ 1018 00:44:25,390 --> 00:44:27,320 ♪ And let the truth unfurl ♪ 1019 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:29,320 ♪ No one can hurt you now ♪ 1020 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,280 ♪ Because you know what's true ♪ 1021 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,140 ♪ Yes, I believe in me ♪ 1022 00:44:33,340 --> 00:44:35,200 ♪ So you believe in you ♪ 1023 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,120 ♪ Help me sing it ♪ 1024 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:38,470 ♪ Hoo-hoo! ♪ 1025 00:44:38,670 --> 00:44:42,420 The greatest soul singers are not afraid to feel the music, 1026 00:44:42,620 --> 00:44:44,820 you know, just do what the music tells them to do. 1027 00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:48,230 For all the new cats, all the new-school cats 1028 00:44:48,430 --> 00:44:50,800 that are going on record and ad-libbing, 1029 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,130 and they say, like... 1030 00:44:55,590 --> 00:44:58,520 I'm sorry, Michael did that first. 1031 00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:00,370 I'll prove it to you. 1032 00:45:00,570 --> 00:45:04,150 ♪ So beat it, just beat it ♪ 1033 00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:07,390 ♪ Beat it ♪ 1034 00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:10,280 ♪ Beat it ♪ 1035 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,010 Why was he yawning on a record, though? 1036 00:45:13,210 --> 00:45:14,320 It shows the freedom 1037 00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,550 and how comfortable he felt in the studio 1038 00:45:16,750 --> 00:45:18,436 without worrying about people's judgment 1039 00:45:18,460 --> 00:45:19,796 or, like, "Yo, what's that?" 1040 00:45:19,820 --> 00:45:21,966 Because you know he was bringing the freaking skills. 1041 00:45:21,990 --> 00:45:25,440 You knew he was bringing ultra talent and imagination, 1042 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,320 for him to be like, "You know what? 1043 00:45:27,470 --> 00:45:28,746 I feel like yawning right here." 1044 00:45:31,250 --> 00:45:32,970 ♪ Beat it ♪ 1045 00:45:34,650 --> 00:45:36,746 I-I don't know what that one is. I don't know what... 1046 00:45:36,770 --> 00:45:38,640 I don't... but I love it. 1047 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,890 And I'm listening to his ad-libs. 1048 00:45:41,090 --> 00:45:42,330 He's doing all that... 1049 00:45:44,820 --> 00:45:47,210 He's doing all this rhythmic stuff. 1050 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,540 Michael had such a clear vision 1051 00:46:04,740 --> 00:46:06,560 of what he wanted, and Quincy, 1052 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,080 he knows who wanted to work with each other. 1053 00:46:09,270 --> 00:46:10,556 There's a number of things going on. 1054 00:46:10,580 --> 00:46:12,530 We have "Beat It," drums being done 1055 00:46:12,730 --> 00:46:14,720 by Jeff Porcaro at Sunset Sound; 1056 00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:18,030 Steve Lukather in Studio B at Westlake; 1057 00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:20,640 Studio A, Quincy and Bruce. 1058 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,160 Quincy's going back and forth between A and B, 1059 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:24,410 across the hallway. 1060 00:46:24,610 --> 00:46:27,270 Then you add the E.T. storybook album, 1061 00:46:27,470 --> 00:46:30,420 and-and then... then it's just a lot going on. 1062 00:46:30,620 --> 00:46:32,746 Quincy had become friends with Steven Spielberg. 1063 00:46:32,770 --> 00:46:37,360 And I remember one day he... Steven invited Quincy 1064 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,300 down to the set when he was working on E.T. 1065 00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:41,780 And, uh, E.T. was there, 1066 00:46:41,940 --> 00:46:44,506 and the guys who were operating it at the time were there. 1067 00:46:44,530 --> 00:46:46,006 And I think somewhere in the course of it, 1068 00:46:46,030 --> 00:46:47,756 Steven had said to Quincy, said, "You know, 1069 00:46:47,780 --> 00:46:49,650 "I want to do a rec... we should do 1070 00:46:49,850 --> 00:46:51,390 a record of some sort." 1071 00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:53,420 So Quincy, I think, 1072 00:46:53,620 --> 00:46:55,100 came to Michael and-and said, 1073 00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:58,740 "Steven wants us to do the E.T. storybook album," 1074 00:46:58,940 --> 00:47:01,226 where Michael would narrate the story of E.T. 1075 00:47:01,250 --> 00:47:04,370 and Michael would write and sing a song for the album. 1076 00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:06,716 And Michael was a big fan, too, 1077 00:47:06,740 --> 00:47:08,096 so, "Quincy, let's do this." 1078 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,380 So they started doing it in the midst of doing Thriller. 1079 00:47:11,580 --> 00:47:15,380 I've always loved film, and, uh, 1080 00:47:15,580 --> 00:47:17,740 we're talking, in the stage of doing, uh, 1081 00:47:17,850 --> 00:47:21,370 Quincy Jones and myself and Steven Spielberg, 1082 00:47:21,570 --> 00:47:23,410 uh, working on a project. 1083 00:47:23,610 --> 00:47:25,640 The problem is nobody bothered 1084 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:27,460 to call Walter Yetnikoff 1085 00:47:27,660 --> 00:47:29,810 and clear the rights because the album was 1086 00:47:30,010 --> 00:47:32,600 going out on Universal MCA's label. 1087 00:47:33,190 --> 00:47:36,400 I'll never forget, uh, one day, I was at a-a meeting 1088 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,990 and I get a call, so I get on the phone 1089 00:47:39,190 --> 00:47:42,430 and Walter says, "Tell Michael to stop kissing the monster." 1090 00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:44,620 "Walter, what are you talking about?" 1091 00:47:44,820 --> 00:47:46,196 "Stop kissing the monster!" 1092 00:47:46,220 --> 00:47:49,480 So, if you look at the E.T. storybook album, 1093 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,306 Michael's got his arm around E.T. 1094 00:47:51,330 --> 00:47:53,716 They're like pals, and that's what Walter was talking about. 1095 00:47:53,740 --> 00:47:54,996 It wasn't just an album. 1096 00:47:55,020 --> 00:47:56,706 It was a whole box set with posters 1097 00:47:56,730 --> 00:47:59,380 and a picture of Michael with E.T. 1098 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,030 So Walter filed an injunction against, 1099 00:48:04,230 --> 00:48:05,910 uh, MCA and Universal 1100 00:48:06,110 --> 00:48:08,580 and made them take the album out of the stores. 1101 00:48:08,780 --> 00:48:11,300 It was already shipped. It was already a huge hit. 1102 00:48:11,470 --> 00:48:12,880 They had to pull the album back. 1103 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,570 Epic wasn't happy, and they felt it was sort of 1104 00:48:15,770 --> 00:48:18,590 holding up their record, the-the Thriller record. 1105 00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:20,036 Yeah, they sued, you know. 1106 00:48:20,060 --> 00:48:21,806 "No, you can't have our artist, da-da-da-da-da." 1107 00:48:21,830 --> 00:48:24,240 You know, and Walter was litigious anyway, 1108 00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,580 and so he-he went... he went in hard. 1109 00:48:26,780 --> 00:48:28,370 And MCA responded hard, 1110 00:48:28,570 --> 00:48:30,136 and it was, you know, all hell broke loose. 1111 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,850 And he said, "John, is he mad at me?" 1112 00:48:33,050 --> 00:48:35,610 I said, "What do you think, Walter?" 1113 00:48:35,810 --> 00:48:38,590 "You-you just sued him and Steven Spielberg 1114 00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:40,840 and Quincy Jones, and you wonder... 1115 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,030 you're wondering if he's mad at you?" 1116 00:48:43,230 --> 00:48:46,990 Uh, and he goes, "What can I do to make it up?" 1117 00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:49,126 And I said, "You give him the owner... 1118 00:48:49,150 --> 00:48:50,756 ownership of his master recordings: 1119 00:48:50,780 --> 00:48:52,906 Off the Wall, Thriller and everything to come." 1120 00:48:52,930 --> 00:48:53,940 And he said, "Done." 1121 00:48:54,140 --> 00:48:57,340 To get your masters back in the middle of a contract, 1122 00:48:57,540 --> 00:49:00,110 I don't think had ever, ever happened. 1123 00:49:02,670 --> 00:49:04,266 Rod came with his songs. 1124 00:49:04,290 --> 00:49:05,370 Michael had his songs. 1125 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:06,956 And if those worked, they worked. 1126 00:49:06,980 --> 00:49:09,300 If they didn't, they-they went looking elsewhere. 1127 00:49:09,380 --> 00:49:11,520 ♪ I lost my heart ♪ 1128 00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:14,860 ♪ On the carousel ♪ 1129 00:49:15,050 --> 00:49:17,460 ♪ To a circus girl ♪ 1130 00:49:17,660 --> 00:49:21,340 ♪ Who left my heart in pieces... ♪ 1131 00:49:21,540 --> 00:49:23,800 "Carousel" was a great song, 1132 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,281 and fortunately or unfortunately, you know, 1133 00:49:26,380 --> 00:49:27,740 there was only room on the album 1134 00:49:27,900 --> 00:49:32,250 for one mood like, uh, "Carousel" or-or "Human Nature," 1135 00:49:32,450 --> 00:49:36,130 and "Human Nature" was the choice we had to make, you know. 1136 00:49:36,330 --> 00:49:37,770 Toto was big at that time. 1137 00:49:37,850 --> 00:49:40,050 Toto, who I just adored, 1138 00:49:40,250 --> 00:49:42,780 we worked together a lot, and, um, they sent over 1139 00:49:42,980 --> 00:49:46,370 two demos that they thought would be right for Michael, 1140 00:49:46,570 --> 00:49:48,160 and all of a sudden, there's... 1141 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,480 at the end, there was all this silence. 1142 00:49:50,510 --> 00:49:51,950 And then it said... it said... 1143 00:49:52,030 --> 00:49:53,580 ♪ Why, why? ♪ 1144 00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:56,790 ♪ Why? ♪ 1145 00:49:56,990 --> 00:49:58,346 And-and I tell you, I get... 1146 00:49:58,370 --> 00:50:00,116 I get goose bumps just talking about it. 1147 00:50:00,140 --> 00:50:02,720 And I said, "What the hell is that?" You know? 1148 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:04,400 That's what took "Carousel" out. 1149 00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:06,106 I said, "This is where we want to go," 1150 00:50:06,130 --> 00:50:08,680 'cause it's got such a... a-a wonderful flavor. 1151 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:10,986 I'll tell you what. 1152 00:50:11,010 --> 00:50:14,220 Tonight, I want to do... 1153 00:50:14,850 --> 00:50:17,650 one of my favorite songs. 1154 00:50:17,850 --> 00:50:20,020 ♪ I touched her shoulder ♪ 1155 00:50:20,220 --> 00:50:23,800 ♪ She likes the way I stare ♪ 1156 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:26,280 ♪ And they say, "Why?" ♪ 1157 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:27,510 Everybody sing! 1158 00:50:27,710 --> 00:50:30,100 ♪ Tell them that it's human nature ♪ 1159 00:50:30,300 --> 00:50:33,700 ♪ Why, why does he do me that way? ♪ 1160 00:50:33,900 --> 00:50:37,020 The song that always haunts me is "Human Nature." 1161 00:50:39,100 --> 00:50:40,766 - Um... Yeah. - What a beautiful record. 1162 00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:42,226 That's-that's one of those records that you just say, 1163 00:50:42,250 --> 00:50:44,440 "I wish I would've did that record." 1164 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,760 And that always, for me, is the... 1165 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,200 the test of if I love it or not. 1166 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,500 I remember one experience in the studio, 1167 00:50:53,690 --> 00:50:55,810 Rod Temperton, one of the writers on the album, 1168 00:50:56,010 --> 00:50:58,520 and he said, "Michael, if you only had three hits 1169 00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:01,320 off this album, would you not be happy?" 1170 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,000 I said, "I'd be very angry." 1171 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:04,800 And they all started laughing. 1172 00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,590 I said, "I expect eight hits off of this album. 1173 00:51:08,790 --> 00:51:10,050 Nine, all of 'em." 1174 00:51:12,860 --> 00:51:14,216 That is how I am. I'm sorry. 1175 00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:16,940 And my attitude was always reaching out for more. 1176 00:51:17,130 --> 00:51:18,730 Never being satisfied. 1177 00:51:18,930 --> 00:51:23,210 And right at this very moment, I'm on my fifth hit record. 1178 00:51:23,710 --> 00:51:26,070 Five. "Human Nature" is number ten. 1179 00:51:26,270 --> 00:51:29,910 And I've broken a record that has never been done before... 1180 00:51:30,110 --> 00:51:31,546 five hit songs for one album. 1181 00:51:31,570 --> 00:51:36,510 Always reaching out for more, striving for excellence. 1182 00:51:39,470 --> 00:51:41,690 It's so engaging 1183 00:51:41,890 --> 00:51:43,650 because the idea 1184 00:51:43,850 --> 00:51:45,366 was to have something for everyone. 1185 00:51:45,390 --> 00:51:47,996 There was a song that I didn't really know too much about 1186 00:51:48,020 --> 00:51:49,266 that was called "Starlight," 1187 00:51:49,290 --> 00:51:51,650 and it was a disco song that Rod Temperton wrote. 1188 00:51:51,770 --> 00:51:55,580 You know, so it really evolved from 1189 00:51:55,780 --> 00:51:59,190 this click here at 1:18. 1190 00:51:59,390 --> 00:52:02,110 And so, okay, we lay the click down, and the idea was: 1191 00:52:02,300 --> 00:52:04,326 "Let's put it... let's put a new version down. 1192 00:52:04,350 --> 00:52:06,686 Let's put some tracks down and see where it goes." 1193 00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:08,740 So we-we started with this drumbeat. 1194 00:52:10,230 --> 00:52:13,510 Four on the floor, kind of dance song. 1195 00:52:13,970 --> 00:52:16,810 And then... backbeat. 1196 00:52:19,990 --> 00:52:21,580 Claps on the four. 1197 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:28,520 And then the hi-hat part was like this. 1198 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,280 Five, six, seven, eight. 1199 00:52:35,070 --> 00:52:37,530 And then open hat. 1200 00:52:39,330 --> 00:52:40,980 There we go. 1201 00:52:41,180 --> 00:52:43,500 And then the cowbell. 1202 00:52:51,670 --> 00:52:52,860 Here we go. 1203 00:52:53,060 --> 00:52:55,280 So, another thing about Michael and Quincy 1204 00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:56,220 is they like kind of like 1205 00:52:56,420 --> 00:52:58,500 a little bit of a feel to the music. 1206 00:52:58,690 --> 00:53:00,160 So, this is straight time. 1207 00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,190 And then we add a little bit of shuffle to it 1208 00:53:03,390 --> 00:53:07,270 so it just kind of pushes it a little bit like that. 1209 00:53:07,470 --> 00:53:08,470 So it's in. 1210 00:53:08,580 --> 00:53:13,090 And then the bass line ended up being kind of like a... 1211 00:53:13,290 --> 00:53:15,090 something I never would have expected, 1212 00:53:15,150 --> 00:53:17,680 like a little bit of a Latin rhythm, like... 1213 00:53:21,280 --> 00:53:23,920 Which sounded like a conga line to me, but... 1214 00:53:27,310 --> 00:53:29,210 And there was the-the opening. 1215 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:42,636 Just layering all the parts to "Thriller" 1216 00:53:42,660 --> 00:53:46,430 was one of the most fun sessions I've ever done in my life. 1217 00:53:46,980 --> 00:53:49,020 At 24, Michael had become more 1218 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,900 than a master singer, dancer, songwriter. 1219 00:53:52,100 --> 00:53:54,840 He was a super salesman of his own mystique. 1220 00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,100 Michael's passion for world conquest was singular. 1221 00:53:58,300 --> 00:54:02,200 He lived, breathed, slept, dreamt and spoke 1222 00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,450 of nothing but number one successes. 1223 00:54:06,540 --> 00:54:08,406 Thriller stayed number one for months. 1224 00:54:08,430 --> 00:54:12,170 In the long period of its unprecedented success, however, 1225 00:54:12,370 --> 00:54:15,780 when it occasionally fell to second place for a week or two, 1226 00:54:15,980 --> 00:54:17,620 Michael panicked. 1227 00:54:17,820 --> 00:54:19,220 Hysterical, he'd berate me 1228 00:54:19,420 --> 00:54:21,770 for failing to pump up the promotion. 1229 00:54:21,970 --> 00:54:23,560 "I'm pumping, Michael," I'd say. 1230 00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:25,370 "I promise you I'm pumping." 1231 00:54:25,570 --> 00:54:26,930 And I was. 1232 00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,200 After Thriller had sold 1233 00:54:29,390 --> 00:54:31,650 about three or four million copies, 1234 00:54:31,850 --> 00:54:33,420 I got a call about 12 noon. 1235 00:54:33,620 --> 00:54:35,880 On the phone was the record company saying, 1236 00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:37,626 "Hey, listen, if you're not busy, 1237 00:54:37,650 --> 00:54:40,240 we need you to get over here right now." 1238 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,950 Michael was going to be presented a-a plaque 1239 00:54:44,150 --> 00:54:46,140 for the-the Thriller record. 1240 00:54:46,340 --> 00:54:49,500 And we were wondering, why were we waiting? 1241 00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,400 In came Jane Fonda. 1242 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:53,940 Jane? 1243 00:54:58,420 --> 00:55:00,410 I love Michael, and I admire him. 1244 00:55:00,610 --> 00:55:02,891 He's the only person I know that writes music 1245 00:55:03,030 --> 00:55:04,850 that you can dream to and dance to 1246 00:55:05,050 --> 00:55:06,500 and love to and work out to. 1247 00:55:06,700 --> 00:55:08,026 And I do all of 'em to it. 1248 00:55:08,050 --> 00:55:10,130 Come here, Michael. 1249 00:55:10,330 --> 00:55:11,810 In retrospect, I know 1250 00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:14,310 exactly what he was doing. 1251 00:55:14,900 --> 00:55:16,876 He understood the importance of having 1252 00:55:16,900 --> 00:55:20,800 a big white star giving him this plaque. 1253 00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,180 Uh, Michael has a number one single on the pop charts, 1254 00:55:24,380 --> 00:55:26,370 number one album on the pop charts, 1255 00:55:26,570 --> 00:55:29,750 number one single on the R and B charts, 1256 00:55:29,950 --> 00:55:32,190 number one album on the R and B charts. 1257 00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:33,830 And I think that starts... 1258 00:55:34,020 --> 00:55:35,820 that's sort of an historic record. 1259 00:55:36,020 --> 00:55:37,896 But I don't think we understood 1260 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:39,360 where it was gonna go until 1261 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:41,620 the "Thriller" video came out. 1262 00:55:45,850 --> 00:55:47,356 As far as the record company 1263 00:55:47,380 --> 00:55:49,520 was concerned, the album cycle was done. 1264 00:55:49,720 --> 00:55:51,556 They were thrilled with whatever it sold, 1265 00:55:51,580 --> 00:55:54,800 and Michael said, "No, no, we're gonna... we got more." 1266 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,040 "Thriller," of all the songs on the album, 1267 00:55:57,190 --> 00:56:01,220 uh, seems like you can do much more video-wise... 1268 00:56:01,420 --> 00:56:03,990 no, movie-wise... than any of the songs 1269 00:56:04,190 --> 00:56:06,200 'cause of the story and all the visuals 1270 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,600 and monsters and stuff. 1271 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:10,240 And so I came up with an idea 1272 00:56:10,410 --> 00:56:12,960 of thinking that I really want to change, 1273 00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,510 metamorphosis into some other creature. 1274 00:56:16,710 --> 00:56:19,860 I... and I-I saw American Werewolf In London. 1275 00:56:20,060 --> 00:56:21,890 I really liked it. 1276 00:56:22,090 --> 00:56:24,580 And-and I said, "Who's the director who did it?" 1277 00:56:24,780 --> 00:56:26,336 And they said, "John Landis, John Landis." 1278 00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,336 I said, "Great. That's who we got to get." 1279 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,430 So I said, "Get in touch with him." 1280 00:56:30,970 --> 00:56:33,010 So I get this call, and he says, 1281 00:56:33,080 --> 00:56:35,480 "Michael Jackson," and I really thought... 1282 00:56:35,980 --> 00:56:38,010 "Little Michael Jackson of The Jackson 5?" 1283 00:56:38,210 --> 00:56:40,126 I mean, I thought, "He's a kid," you know? 1284 00:56:40,150 --> 00:56:42,230 And he told me he had a song, "Thriller," 1285 00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,220 and he wanted me to make a video. 1286 00:56:44,420 --> 00:56:45,420 And I said, "Why?" 1287 00:56:45,610 --> 00:56:47,490 His brother showed him on the bus 1288 00:56:47,690 --> 00:56:50,500 the tape of American Werewolf, I think to scare him, 1289 00:56:50,700 --> 00:56:52,546 but he loved American Werewolf in London. 1290 00:56:52,570 --> 00:56:56,730 And he was obviously fascinated with Rick Baker's work. 1291 00:56:59,960 --> 00:57:01,840 And so he called me and said, 1292 00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,016 "I want to turn into a monster. Will you do it?" 1293 00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,410 And the record label wouldn't pay for it. 1294 00:57:06,610 --> 00:57:08,490 And, uh... and we talked, and I said, 1295 00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:10,656 "Michael, you know, you shouldn't pay for this. 1296 00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,150 You shouldn't pay for it yourself." 1297 00:57:13,350 --> 00:57:15,170 And he said, "Branca, figure it out." 1298 00:57:15,370 --> 00:57:17,150 Nobody wanted him to do this. 1299 00:57:17,350 --> 00:57:19,480 This was entirely his own thing. 1300 00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:23,360 And everybody else... his people and the record company... 1301 00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:27,350 said, "Next album. Let's... We've already... Michael, hello. 1302 00:57:27,550 --> 00:57:30,890 It's the most successful album of all time. We want..." 1303 00:57:31,090 --> 00:57:34,000 So they thought "Thriller" was outrageous. 1304 00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,420 Its budget was $1.2 million dollars. 1305 00:57:36,620 --> 00:57:39,100 That's at a time when the average music video budget 1306 00:57:39,220 --> 00:57:40,550 was only $50,000 dollars. 1307 00:57:40,750 --> 00:57:43,860 So I went... I went back to the office and thought about it. 1308 00:57:44,060 --> 00:57:46,700 And I thought up this idea of a making-of. 1309 00:57:46,900 --> 00:57:48,220 Went to MTV and Showtime, 1310 00:57:48,340 --> 00:57:50,660 and-and Michael was the biggest thing on the planet. 1311 00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:52,006 And I said, "We'll give you 1312 00:57:52,030 --> 00:57:53,630 a making of Michael's next video. 1313 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:54,960 We need a million two." 1314 00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:57,860 And they came back, and they said yes. 1315 00:57:58,060 --> 00:57:59,386 We're trying to bring back 1316 00:57:59,410 --> 00:58:00,730 the motion picture shorts, 1317 00:58:00,810 --> 00:58:03,740 which we will do with, uh... with "Thriller." 1318 00:58:03,940 --> 00:58:05,916 A lot of the videos... I hate to use the word "video" 1319 00:58:05,940 --> 00:58:08,546 'cause I like to think of it as a film, which it is... 1320 00:58:08,570 --> 00:58:12,370 we're doing a short film... a lot of 'em are so terrible. 1321 00:58:12,570 --> 00:58:15,050 And I wanted "Thriller" and "Beat It" to be a stimulant 1322 00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,520 for people to make better videos or short films. 1323 00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:23,070 I really did, 'cause, I mean, I love MTV, watching it. 1324 00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:24,666 You know, I think it's great, 1325 00:58:24,690 --> 00:58:27,340 but a lot of stuff I see, I'm not so crazy about. 1326 00:58:27,540 --> 00:58:29,500 He wanted to turn into a... 1327 00:58:29,550 --> 00:58:30,670 at first, a-a wolf man, 1328 00:58:30,780 --> 00:58:35,210 like the werewolf in American Werewolf. 1329 00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:40,500 His desire was to turn into a monster 1330 00:58:40,700 --> 00:58:41,960 on camera. 1331 00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,280 We had the character turn into 1332 00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,720 a four-legged hound from hell, a... 1333 00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:49,390 you know, a beast. 1334 00:58:49,590 --> 00:58:52,600 And Michael wanted to do that, and I told him, 1335 00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:54,750 "Michael, it would be so difficult 1336 00:58:54,950 --> 00:58:56,310 for you to dance with four legs, 1337 00:58:56,340 --> 00:58:58,670 you know, and for the puppeteers. 1338 00:58:58,870 --> 00:58:59,380 No." 1339 00:58:59,580 --> 00:59:01,110 So then it was gonna be 1340 00:59:01,310 --> 00:59:03,630 more of a traditional wolf man character. 1341 00:59:03,830 --> 00:59:08,030 And Rick Baker did the first design, and it was great 1342 00:59:08,230 --> 00:59:11,030 but truly terrifying. 1343 00:59:11,230 --> 00:59:13,200 And I said, "Aah! Whatever we have him 1344 00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,770 turn into, he's got to be attractive." 1345 00:59:15,970 --> 00:59:18,400 Scary but... 1346 00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,130 kind of cool and elegant, you know? 1347 00:59:21,330 --> 00:59:25,510 So his second design, he made him that "were-cat," 1348 00:59:25,710 --> 00:59:28,680 and it's a much more graceful design. 1349 00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:30,280 Are you all right? 1350 00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,890 Go away! 1351 00:59:38,930 --> 00:59:40,986 Michael Jackson was 1352 00:59:41,010 --> 00:59:42,230 a very slight person. 1353 00:59:42,430 --> 00:59:45,210 99 pounds soaking wet. 1354 00:59:45,410 --> 00:59:49,220 So, how do you develop a presence on screen? 1355 00:59:49,420 --> 00:59:50,430 For "Thriller," 1356 00:59:50,630 --> 00:59:52,200 you know, it was supposed to be 1357 00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,760 a satire of a teenage horror film, 1358 00:59:54,970 --> 00:59:56,330 so he's in a letterman's jacket. 1359 00:59:56,380 --> 01:00:00,150 And then, with his red jacket for that theater, 1360 01:00:00,350 --> 01:00:03,940 I was trying to create a silhouette that was 1361 01:00:04,140 --> 01:00:08,630 sexy, masculine, impressive, 1362 01:00:08,830 --> 01:00:14,490 and... and gave him weight on screen. 1363 01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,980 So, with Michael's fascination 1364 01:00:18,180 --> 01:00:21,980 with monsters, I said, "Well, you'll become two monsters. 1365 01:00:22,180 --> 01:00:23,500 You'll become a werewolf," 1366 01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,650 and then when we decided on dancing zombies, a zombie. 1367 01:00:27,850 --> 01:00:29,490 Doesn't make sense, but who cares? 1368 01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:31,550 You know, it's a fantasy. 1369 01:00:32,340 --> 01:00:35,450 And he really enjoyed the process of the makeup, 1370 01:00:35,650 --> 01:00:38,430 and he really enjoyed wearing the makeup. 1371 01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:41,370 Most actors hate it, and he loved it. 1372 01:00:41,570 --> 01:00:43,380 He's so dynamic, Mike, 1373 01:00:43,580 --> 01:00:45,520 and he has such power and such charm. 1374 01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:49,320 As I had seen it, just looking at, you know, 1375 01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,050 "Can You Feel It" and everything I saw, 1376 01:00:52,250 --> 01:00:56,100 it's like, "Why isn't he being sexual?" 1377 01:00:56,300 --> 01:00:58,410 I mean, he's a rock star. 1378 01:00:58,610 --> 01:01:01,920 So one of the first things for me was 1379 01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:06,230 I wanted a girl to make him sexy 1380 01:01:06,430 --> 01:01:08,090 and to also... 1381 01:01:08,290 --> 01:01:12,130 to be gaga in love with him. 1382 01:01:12,330 --> 01:01:14,620 The big eyes, you know. 1383 01:01:14,820 --> 01:01:18,430 And I saw over a hundred actresses 1384 01:01:18,630 --> 01:01:20,550 and dancers and all kinds of people. 1385 01:01:20,700 --> 01:01:22,080 And when Ola came in, 1386 01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,960 one, she was desperate, desperate 1387 01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,400 to be with Michael Jackson, and she was adorable. 1388 01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:31,300 Michael Jackson isn't Michael Jackson 1389 01:01:31,500 --> 01:01:33,180 as a werewolf. 1390 01:01:33,380 --> 01:01:35,740 Michael Jackson is 1391 01:01:35,940 --> 01:01:38,740 another person totally with the mask. 1392 01:01:38,940 --> 01:01:41,660 And I like, you know, when he's so shy. 1393 01:01:41,860 --> 01:01:43,580 I have something I want to tell you. 1394 01:01:43,780 --> 01:01:45,540 The only time I really 1395 01:01:45,580 --> 01:01:48,036 explained something to him, I said, "You know, Michael, 1396 01:01:48,060 --> 01:01:52,010 I want you to know when you say, 'I'm not like other guys'..." 1397 01:01:52,210 --> 01:01:54,160 I'm not like other guys. 1398 01:01:54,350 --> 01:01:56,170 "...it will get a laugh." 1399 01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,586 And he was clueless. He said, "Why would this get a laugh?" 1400 01:01:59,610 --> 01:02:01,776 I said, "Because you're not like other guys." 1401 01:02:01,800 --> 01:02:04,680 But at least he was prepared, 'cause it got a huge laugh 1402 01:02:04,780 --> 01:02:07,880 and, uh... and so he was in on it. 1403 01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,090 You know, I think he would have been terribly upset otherwise. 1404 01:02:11,290 --> 01:02:13,380 From the beginning of the film, 1405 01:02:13,580 --> 01:02:15,860 going to the theater, 1406 01:02:16,060 --> 01:02:18,126 then you're walking out, and then Michael has 1407 01:02:18,150 --> 01:02:19,356 that cat-and-mouse sort of, uh, 1408 01:02:19,380 --> 01:02:21,100 walk that he's doing with Ola Ray. 1409 01:02:21,260 --> 01:02:25,370 That's like an ode back to, uh, classic, uh, musicals, right? 1410 01:02:25,570 --> 01:02:26,690 The cat-and-mouse chase. 1411 01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:28,716 Right? Th-Then, you know, the-the man 1412 01:02:28,740 --> 01:02:30,516 playing up to the woman and all that. 1413 01:02:30,540 --> 01:02:32,076 And it's a dolly shot. 1414 01:02:32,100 --> 01:02:35,820 And I said, "Mike, here's what we're gonna do. 1415 01:02:36,020 --> 01:02:38,930 As long as Ola could keep the beat, 1416 01:02:39,130 --> 01:02:40,600 you do those lyrics, 1417 01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,850 you can never be more than this many feet away from her." 1418 01:02:44,050 --> 01:02:46,366 The big difference between 1419 01:02:46,390 --> 01:02:49,440 a costume designer and a fashion designer is, 1420 01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,650 for us, it's all about dramatic context. 1421 01:02:52,850 --> 01:02:54,330 So, where are they gonna be? 1422 01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:57,450 They're gonna be in an alley and a movie theater. 1423 01:02:57,650 --> 01:02:58,930 And what are they doing? 1424 01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,530 They're on a date, and Michael is gonna 1425 01:03:01,740 --> 01:03:04,640 be playful and be seductive. 1426 01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:06,410 She's dressed in blue. 1427 01:03:06,610 --> 01:03:07,690 She's cool. 1428 01:03:07,890 --> 01:03:10,650 She's relaxed. She's in jeans. 1429 01:03:10,850 --> 01:03:13,570 They did have a leopard print on them, 1430 01:03:13,770 --> 01:03:16,700 but, you know, tight jeans, little jacket. 1431 01:03:16,900 --> 01:03:18,360 She couldn't have been cuter. 1432 01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:20,280 I think, to the audience, 1433 01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,080 with what she's wearing and her attitude, 1434 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,710 she's sending off every good vibe. 1435 01:03:25,900 --> 01:03:28,420 And I'll say, "Okay, well, that was fine. 1436 01:03:28,620 --> 01:03:30,150 I don't want fine. 1437 01:03:30,350 --> 01:03:32,590 You're Michael Jackson, 1438 01:03:32,790 --> 01:03:35,550 so it has to be great. 1439 01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:37,400 Because if you can't be great, 1440 01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,680 why the fuck do I have Michael Jackson here?" 1441 01:03:39,790 --> 01:03:42,310 So he goes, "Okay, John." 1442 01:03:42,500 --> 01:03:43,780 And he did the next take. 1443 01:03:43,860 --> 01:03:45,810 He was great! You know? 1444 01:03:46,010 --> 01:03:51,170 ♪ For you and I to cuddle close together, yeah ♪ 1445 01:03:51,370 --> 01:03:53,480 ♪ All through the night ♪ 1446 01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,570 ♪ I'll save you from the terror on the screen ♪ 1447 01:03:56,770 --> 01:03:58,090 ♪ I'll make you see... ♪ 1448 01:03:58,290 --> 01:04:00,780 Michael Peters and Michael Jackson 1449 01:04:00,980 --> 01:04:02,600 came up with the choreography, 1450 01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:04,560 and it's fascinating choreography 1451 01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,540 because the dancers were allowed 1452 01:04:07,740 --> 01:04:10,500 more rehearsal than usual. 1453 01:04:10,700 --> 01:04:12,250 At that point already, 1454 01:04:12,450 --> 01:04:15,590 Michael had established certain moves, 1455 01:04:15,790 --> 01:04:20,030 so my first instruction to Michael Peters was spooky, 1456 01:04:20,230 --> 01:04:22,370 and the second one was: 1457 01:04:22,570 --> 01:04:24,640 "I don't want any Michael move." 1458 01:04:42,300 --> 01:04:44,180 And they go into this 1459 01:04:44,380 --> 01:04:45,530 popping routine, right? 1460 01:04:45,730 --> 01:04:48,610 This goes back to the whole thing of where Michael Jackson 1461 01:04:48,780 --> 01:04:51,640 crosses the technique and the street world, right? 1462 01:04:54,330 --> 01:04:58,590 And he was so inspired by popping and waving and all that 1463 01:04:58,790 --> 01:05:01,550 so that he had to put them in the film. 1464 01:05:01,750 --> 01:05:03,640 How would a zombie dance? 1465 01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:05,910 And then looking at it, and it was... 1466 01:05:06,110 --> 01:05:07,720 it just made a lot of sense to me 1467 01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,440 that they weren't just locking or they just weren't popping 1468 01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:14,440 or they just weren't doing jazz dance. 1469 01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:18,550 The angles, the lines were all... 1470 01:05:18,750 --> 01:05:21,070 demented and crooked, and it... 1471 01:05:21,270 --> 01:05:23,740 I'd just never seen anything like that before. 1472 01:05:23,940 --> 01:05:26,550 ♪ 'Cause this is thriller ♪ 1473 01:05:26,750 --> 01:05:28,100 ♪ Thriller night... ♪ 1474 01:05:28,300 --> 01:05:30,216 On those zombies, 1475 01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:31,946 those costumes were just made of rags. 1476 01:05:31,970 --> 01:05:36,880 We call it aging, distressing and dying. 1477 01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,280 Then, of course, Rick Baker's work 1478 01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,700 was just masterful on everybody. 1479 01:05:42,900 --> 01:05:44,680 ♪ Thriller night ♪ 1480 01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:46,240 ♪ 'Cause I can thrill you more ♪ 1481 01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:49,990 ♪ Than any ghoul would ever dare try ♪ 1482 01:05:57,500 --> 01:06:00,590 This is a song about watching a movie. 1483 01:06:00,790 --> 01:06:02,900 Yo. A Blockbuster night. 1484 01:06:03,100 --> 01:06:04,620 He made a whole movie. 1485 01:06:04,770 --> 01:06:05,950 He entertained us. 1486 01:06:06,150 --> 01:06:08,030 He gave us R and B, he gave us horror, 1487 01:06:08,130 --> 01:06:11,250 he gave us sci-fi, but he gave it all to us in music. 1488 01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:12,770 He-he was just a-amazing. 1489 01:06:12,970 --> 01:06:14,966 After the video came out, 1490 01:06:14,990 --> 01:06:16,600 it tripled its sales. 1491 01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:18,500 They sold six million of these. 1492 01:06:18,700 --> 01:06:20,650 This made MTV a powerhouse 1493 01:06:20,850 --> 01:06:24,180 and then created this whole rock video business. 1494 01:06:24,370 --> 01:06:25,570 It was extraordinary. 1495 01:06:25,770 --> 01:06:27,626 And it's that moment when 1496 01:06:27,650 --> 01:06:29,660 the audience falls madly in love, 1497 01:06:29,860 --> 01:06:32,560 that the audience creates the icons. 1498 01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:34,486 He could write the songs. 1499 01:06:34,510 --> 01:06:35,670 He could produce them. 1500 01:06:35,870 --> 01:06:37,170 He could sing them. 1501 01:06:37,370 --> 01:06:38,716 He could perform like no other. 1502 01:06:38,740 --> 01:06:40,570 And he also was a fashion icon. 1503 01:06:40,770 --> 01:06:43,070 I've seen little tiny kids in red jackets. 1504 01:06:43,270 --> 01:06:45,470 I've seen old grandpas in red jackets. 1505 01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:47,090 I've seen girls in red jackets. 1506 01:06:47,290 --> 01:06:49,830 I've seen everybody wearing that jacket. 1507 01:06:50,030 --> 01:06:51,600 It was huge worldwide. 1508 01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,400 They were buying the leather jackets that Michael... 1509 01:06:54,470 --> 01:06:55,866 They were buying everything. 1510 01:06:55,890 --> 01:06:58,290 They were buying Michael Jackson posters, calendars. 1511 01:06:58,490 --> 01:07:01,050 ♪ Looks so much like Michael from head to toe ♪ 1512 01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,726 ♪ Put the mic in his hand and he'll steal the show ♪ 1513 01:07:03,750 --> 01:07:05,550 I love you, Michael Jackson. 1514 01:07:05,650 --> 01:07:07,250 Michael Jackson! 1515 01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:09,480 Anything with Michael Jackson on it 1516 01:07:09,590 --> 01:07:10,740 does continue to sell. 1517 01:07:10,940 --> 01:07:12,716 I work in a record store, and it still 1518 01:07:12,740 --> 01:07:14,716 just flies out of the store every week. 1519 01:07:14,740 --> 01:07:16,100 And we're talking about a record 1520 01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:18,650 that's a year and a half, almost two years old, 1521 01:07:18,850 --> 01:07:20,850 and people are still freaking out about it. 1522 01:07:20,970 --> 01:07:22,726 There have always been fan clubs, 1523 01:07:22,750 --> 01:07:24,346 Michael's fans more passionate than most. 1524 01:07:24,370 --> 01:07:27,450 This club calls itself the P.Y.T.'s. 1525 01:07:27,650 --> 01:07:30,530 We love you! We love you, Michael! 1526 01:07:30,730 --> 01:07:32,690 And if nothing else, "Thriller" was always 1527 01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:34,680 gonna be played in the month of October. 1528 01:07:34,780 --> 01:07:37,260 Like, there's this big thing in Mexico that happens 1529 01:07:37,320 --> 01:07:40,580 where, I'll tell you, the-the... every... people fly in for it. 1530 01:07:40,780 --> 01:07:43,550 They're all in their costumes, and they do 1531 01:07:43,750 --> 01:07:45,990 the "Thriller" dance, thousands of people. 1532 01:07:46,190 --> 01:07:48,030 And people are still, you-you know, 1533 01:07:48,230 --> 01:07:49,890 dancing to this song like it's... 1534 01:07:50,090 --> 01:07:51,730 like it was just done, like the... 1535 01:07:51,860 --> 01:07:53,876 like the short film just came out yesterday. 1536 01:07:53,900 --> 01:07:56,480 "Thriller," a long time coming. 1537 01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:58,120 Michael Jackson's "Thriller." 1538 01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:00,400 Probably the single biggest video 1539 01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:01,790 for MTV ever. 1540 01:08:01,990 --> 01:08:03,840 After their initial reluctance, 1541 01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:08,240 MTV became a huge supporter of Michael Jackson, 1542 01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,550 especially the "Thriller" short film. 1543 01:08:11,750 --> 01:08:14,120 They heavily promoted the premiere. 1544 01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,930 At some point, it felt like the "M" in MTV 1545 01:08:18,130 --> 01:08:20,640 stood for "Michael." 1546 01:08:21,890 --> 01:08:24,860 And everybody was talking about how they were gonna cut school 1547 01:08:25,060 --> 01:08:26,960 to go home to watch the "Thriller" video 1548 01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:31,530 because it was a twelve o'clock world premiere on MTV. 1549 01:08:31,730 --> 01:08:33,930 And he was acting, he was eating popcorn, 1550 01:08:34,130 --> 01:08:35,770 and then he turned into a monster. 1551 01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:38,176 There's something about music, I think, that has... 1552 01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:41,400 that triggers so many different emotions in people, 1553 01:08:41,590 --> 01:08:44,020 so you're tapping into all of that 1554 01:08:44,220 --> 01:08:47,050 to a larger and larger and larger audience, 1555 01:08:47,250 --> 01:08:50,210 and it just exponentially grew. 1556 01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:54,370 So, the spring of '84, 1557 01:08:54,570 --> 01:08:55,890 the record's already out, 1558 01:08:56,030 --> 01:08:58,540 it's already selling because Michael's now gone 1559 01:08:58,740 --> 01:09:00,810 from being a pop star to a phenomenon. 1560 01:09:01,010 --> 01:09:03,176 The Guinness Book of World Records is giving him 1561 01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:05,346 an award as the biggest-selling album of all time. 1562 01:09:05,370 --> 01:09:06,996 It's a thriller of a party tonight 1563 01:09:07,020 --> 01:09:08,916 for Michael Jackson at the Museum of Natural History. 1564 01:09:08,940 --> 01:09:10,780 That's where Jackson's being honored 1565 01:09:10,980 --> 01:09:13,266 for his album that's broken all the records. 1566 01:09:13,290 --> 01:09:15,316 This was the payoff for the fans tonight, 1567 01:09:15,340 --> 01:09:18,180 that momentary glimpse of superstar Michael Jackson 1568 01:09:18,380 --> 01:09:20,890 with his date for the evening, Brooke Shields. 1569 01:09:21,090 --> 01:09:23,880 Thriller, with 25 million copies sold, 1570 01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:25,870 was the best-selling album ever. 1571 01:09:26,370 --> 01:09:30,670 Today, we surpassed 25 million copies for Thriller. 1572 01:09:30,870 --> 01:09:34,950 Michael Jackson, the number one artist in the world! 1573 01:09:35,150 --> 01:09:37,186 Thriller eclipsed them all. 1574 01:09:37,210 --> 01:09:39,310 At one point, the damn thing was selling 1575 01:09:39,510 --> 01:09:40,586 a million copies a week. 1576 01:09:40,610 --> 01:09:43,770 Michael had become a global obsession. 1577 01:09:43,970 --> 01:09:46,420 And just think, you all came to see me. 1578 01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:51,780 No, I know why you're here, and with good reason. 1579 01:09:51,980 --> 01:09:54,050 To see one of the most talented, most popular 1580 01:09:54,250 --> 01:09:57,780 and most exciting superstars in the music world today, 1581 01:09:57,980 --> 01:09:59,870 Michael Jackson. 1582 01:10:00,070 --> 01:10:01,990 Michael, welcome to the White House. 1583 01:10:02,110 --> 01:10:03,870 But being with Michael 1584 01:10:03,910 --> 01:10:05,060 at that moment in time, 1585 01:10:05,260 --> 01:10:09,230 this is... "Thriller" is now out on television. 1586 01:10:09,430 --> 01:10:12,530 And there was Michael mania, you know. 1587 01:10:12,730 --> 01:10:14,076 He called me, and he said, 1588 01:10:14,100 --> 01:10:15,646 "Have you ever been to Disney World?" 1589 01:10:15,670 --> 01:10:18,456 So the park was open, and there were people walking around. 1590 01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:21,000 Here's Michael, here's Mickey and me. 1591 01:10:21,190 --> 01:10:25,520 Suddenly, we look around, 1592 01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,340 and there are people 1593 01:10:28,540 --> 01:10:33,170 as far as you can see in every direction... 1594 01:10:33,370 --> 01:10:36,840 behind us, in front of us, around us... 1595 01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:39,990 and they're getting more and more hysterical. 1596 01:10:40,190 --> 01:10:42,080 "Michael! Michael!" 1597 01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:46,580 And you see Mickey Mouse is going like... 1598 01:10:46,780 --> 01:10:47,780 "Holy shit! 1599 01:10:47,930 --> 01:10:50,670 We're never getting out of this alive!" You know? 1600 01:10:53,130 --> 01:10:54,746 You know, Thriller was 1601 01:10:54,770 --> 01:10:57,286 the biggest album in the world, Michael was the biggest star, 1602 01:10:57,310 --> 01:11:00,220 and he wanted to go out and tour Thriller. 1603 01:11:00,420 --> 01:11:03,640 But Joseph... you know, uh, Mr. Jackson... 1604 01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:05,850 had other ideas. 1605 01:11:06,470 --> 01:11:09,590 He wanted to bring all the family back together. 1606 01:11:09,780 --> 01:11:10,900 He brought in Don King 1607 01:11:11,100 --> 01:11:12,656 as the recommended promoter of the tour. 1608 01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:15,840 And he got the brothers and Mrs. Jackson, Katherine. 1609 01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,570 Everybody was all for it. 1610 01:11:19,190 --> 01:11:22,080 Michael was hesitant, to be honest. 1611 01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:24,790 He felt like he had done Thriller on his own, 1612 01:11:24,990 --> 01:11:28,040 and he wanted to tour as a solo artist. 1613 01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:31,160 But he was persuaded to go along with it. 1614 01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:36,720 This tour is a bonanza of marketing, 1615 01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:39,050 so everybody wants to get in on this. 1616 01:11:39,250 --> 01:11:42,890 And Quaker Oats, you know, they had made a deal. 1617 01:11:43,090 --> 01:11:45,390 They had a tentative deal with the Jacksons 1618 01:11:45,590 --> 01:11:47,790 to be the sponsors of this thing. 1619 01:11:47,990 --> 01:11:52,000 And then Don King says, "Listen, I've already made a deal. 1620 01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:53,420 I made it with Pepsi." 1621 01:12:03,320 --> 01:12:05,480 Michael was not into the sponsorship 1622 01:12:05,530 --> 01:12:07,426 'cause he-he said, "This isn't my thing. 1623 01:12:07,450 --> 01:12:11,270 I don't drink Pepsi. This is all for my family." 1624 01:12:11,470 --> 01:12:13,590 And Michael did not want to do the Pepsi deal. 1625 01:12:13,700 --> 01:12:16,010 ♪ You're a whole new generation ♪ 1626 01:12:16,210 --> 01:12:17,780 ♪ You're loving what they do ♪ 1627 01:12:17,980 --> 01:12:20,010 ♪ Put a Pepsi into motion ♪ 1628 01:12:20,210 --> 01:12:22,356 ♪ And that choice is up to you, hey, hey, hey ♪ 1629 01:12:22,380 --> 01:12:24,370 ♪ You're the Pepsi Generation... ♪ 1630 01:12:24,570 --> 01:12:27,570 'Cause he said to me, "Okay, Branca, listen to me. 1631 01:12:27,700 --> 01:12:29,940 I got to do this 'cause my family wants it, 1632 01:12:30,140 --> 01:12:32,096 but you have to write two things in the contract. 1633 01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:34,750 I'm never holding a Pepsi can. 1634 01:12:34,950 --> 01:12:36,270 I can't be 1635 01:12:36,310 --> 01:12:38,476 on the screen for more than three seconds." 1636 01:12:38,500 --> 01:12:40,150 So it's in the Pepsi contract, 1637 01:12:40,350 --> 01:12:43,300 no more than three seconds and never holding a Pepsi can. 1638 01:12:43,500 --> 01:12:45,510 So if you ever watch that commercial again, 1639 01:12:45,710 --> 01:12:46,710 you'll-you'll see. 1640 01:12:46,900 --> 01:12:48,336 It's interesting because 1641 01:12:48,360 --> 01:12:51,960 if Don King had not made the deal with Pepsi, 1642 01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:53,946 Michael's hair wouldn't have gotten burned. 1643 01:12:53,970 --> 01:12:56,610 I was actually at the Pepsi commercial, 1644 01:12:56,810 --> 01:12:59,360 and I had an all-access pass. 1645 01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:02,470 When I arrived at the Shrine Auditorium Downtown, 1646 01:13:02,670 --> 01:13:04,830 Michael and the Jacksons were onstage 1647 01:13:05,020 --> 01:13:07,580 performing "Billie Jean." 1648 01:13:09,200 --> 01:13:10,466 The audience had been invited, 1649 01:13:10,490 --> 01:13:12,520 you know, and they were told to scream 1650 01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:13,520 and the whole thing. 1651 01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:15,786 They didn't have to be instructed to do that. 1652 01:13:15,810 --> 01:13:17,190 They were crazy about, you know, 1653 01:13:17,390 --> 01:13:19,550 seeing the Jacksons and Michael there and... 1654 01:13:19,750 --> 01:13:24,620 They did a run-through, and after they came offstage, 1655 01:13:24,820 --> 01:13:26,510 Michael was just in a great mood 1656 01:13:26,710 --> 01:13:29,470 and he was having fun, fooling around. 1657 01:13:29,670 --> 01:13:31,446 And then they called them back out 1658 01:13:31,470 --> 01:13:33,830 and said, "We're gonna do this again." 1659 01:13:34,030 --> 01:13:36,500 And it went horribly wrong. 1660 01:13:36,700 --> 01:13:39,900 Filming the Pepsi commercial, there was a big explosion. 1661 01:13:40,100 --> 01:13:44,300 ♪ You're the Pepsi Generation ♪ 1662 01:13:44,500 --> 01:13:45,820 ♪ Guzzle down... ♪ 1663 01:13:46,020 --> 01:13:47,980 And it burned Michael's scalp 1664 01:13:48,070 --> 01:13:49,700 very severely. 1665 01:13:49,900 --> 01:13:52,560 The audience didn't know what was going on. 1666 01:13:52,760 --> 01:13:54,750 And when they took Michael offstage, 1667 01:13:54,950 --> 01:13:56,190 I went backstage, 1668 01:13:56,390 --> 01:13:59,250 and it was just absolute chaos. 1669 01:13:59,450 --> 01:14:01,970 They put him in a stretcher... 1670 01:14:02,170 --> 01:14:03,876 you know, an ambulance stretcher... 1671 01:14:03,900 --> 01:14:08,950 and they took him offstage to a paramedic truck. 1672 01:14:09,150 --> 01:14:13,560 And Michael Jackson was smart enough... 1673 01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:16,360 to be covered up, 1674 01:14:16,550 --> 01:14:18,520 but he had his glove out. 1675 01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:22,070 That was the photograph that went around the world 1676 01:14:22,270 --> 01:14:25,530 of him with the glitter glove. 1677 01:14:25,730 --> 01:14:29,080 People were crying, you know, in the audience. 1678 01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:31,216 And people were running with the ambulance 1679 01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:32,730 as it was taking him away. 1680 01:14:32,930 --> 01:14:35,170 It was just an incredible thing. 1681 01:14:35,370 --> 01:14:37,406 When I got home, it was all over the news. 1682 01:14:37,430 --> 01:14:39,496 Jackson was rushed to a hospital last night 1683 01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:41,576 after suffering second- and third-degree burns. 1684 01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:43,200 But his doctor said 1685 01:14:43,250 --> 01:14:44,686 the famous patient was doing well. 1686 01:14:44,710 --> 01:14:46,530 He slept several hours last night. 1687 01:14:46,730 --> 01:14:49,530 He was up watching TV at approximately one o'clock. 1688 01:14:49,730 --> 01:14:52,086 He's comfortable this morning, although he is continuing 1689 01:14:52,110 --> 01:14:53,870 to have discomfort in the scalp area. 1690 01:14:54,030 --> 01:14:55,510 People don't realize 1691 01:14:55,550 --> 01:14:58,610 he had to go to emergency treatment in a burn center, 1692 01:14:58,810 --> 01:15:01,110 and he was troubled by the pain from that burn 1693 01:15:01,310 --> 01:15:02,630 for the rest of his life, 1694 01:15:02,750 --> 01:15:07,380 which led to pain pills and whatnot to-to ease the pain. 1695 01:15:08,210 --> 01:15:10,260 Because he needed painkillers, 1696 01:15:10,460 --> 01:15:13,370 he was in pain, life couldn't stop. 1697 01:15:13,570 --> 01:15:16,580 He had a book full of things that he had to do. 1698 01:15:16,780 --> 01:15:20,270 You know, a schedule that just could not stop. 1699 01:15:20,470 --> 01:15:21,596 The opening of the Victory Tour 1700 01:15:21,620 --> 01:15:23,156 in Kansas City was a massive event. 1701 01:15:33,910 --> 01:15:35,230 It's at Arrowhead Stadium. 1702 01:15:35,300 --> 01:15:37,410 It's a giant football stadium. 1703 01:15:48,460 --> 01:15:50,460 - I love you, Michael. - I love you, Michael. 1704 01:15:50,500 --> 01:15:51,500 I love you so much. 1705 01:15:51,670 --> 01:15:54,330 This is gonna be the best concert of the century. 1706 01:15:54,530 --> 01:15:55,906 - Don't you think? - Definitely. 1707 01:15:55,930 --> 01:15:58,250 I have to ask Michael Jackson to marry me today. 1708 01:15:58,450 --> 01:16:00,970 We would do about anything to see Michael Jackson. 1709 01:16:16,700 --> 01:16:18,716 You're looking at a sneak preview 1710 01:16:18,740 --> 01:16:20,740 of what is perhaps the most controversial 1711 01:16:20,850 --> 01:16:25,130 rock concert tour in history, the Jacksons' Victory Tour, 1712 01:16:25,330 --> 01:16:27,300 opening tonight in Kansas City. 1713 01:16:57,370 --> 01:16:59,430 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 1714 01:16:59,630 --> 01:17:01,750 ♪ You got to be startin' somethin' ♪ 1715 01:17:01,950 --> 01:17:03,776 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 1716 01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:05,576 ♪ You got to be startin' somethin' ♪ 1717 01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:07,406 - ♪ Too high to get over ♪ - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 1718 01:17:07,430 --> 01:17:08,710 ♪ Too low to get under ♪ 1719 01:17:08,910 --> 01:17:10,786 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ You're stuck in the middle ♪ 1720 01:17:10,810 --> 01:17:12,786 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ And the pain is thunder ♪ 1721 01:17:12,810 --> 01:17:15,030 - ♪ Too high to get over ♪ - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ 1722 01:17:15,230 --> 01:17:16,510 ♪ Too low to get under ♪ 1723 01:17:16,710 --> 01:17:18,586 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ You're stuck in the middle ♪ 1724 01:17:18,610 --> 01:17:20,756 - ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ - ♪ And the pain is thunder ♪ 1725 01:17:20,780 --> 01:17:22,140 ♪ I took my baby to the doctor ♪ 1726 01:17:22,340 --> 01:17:24,360 ♪ With a fever, but nothin' he found ♪ 1727 01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:26,320 ♪ By the time this hit the street ♪ 1728 01:17:26,490 --> 01:17:28,170 ♪ They said she had a breakdown ♪ 1729 01:17:28,330 --> 01:17:30,090 ♪ Someone's always tryin' ♪ 1730 01:17:30,290 --> 01:17:31,770 ♪ To start my baby cryin' ♪ 1731 01:17:31,850 --> 01:17:33,530 ♪ Talkin', squealin', lyin' ♪ 1732 01:17:33,730 --> 01:17:35,746 ♪ Sayin' you just want to be startin' somethin' ♪ 1733 01:17:35,770 --> 01:17:37,810 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 1734 01:17:38,010 --> 01:17:39,810 ♪ You got to be startin' somethin' ♪ 1735 01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:41,696 ♪ I said you wanna be startin' somethin' ♪ 1736 01:17:47,620 --> 01:17:49,420 ♪ Where did you come from, lady? ♪ 1737 01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:51,646 The Victory Tour sold out in Kansas City. 1738 01:17:51,670 --> 01:17:54,280 Then it was on to Dallas, Jacksonville, 1739 01:17:54,480 --> 01:17:57,280 New Jersey, New York and Knoxville. 1740 01:17:57,480 --> 01:17:59,640 It's currently scheduled in some 13 cities 1741 01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:01,560 with more sites yet to be announced. 1742 01:18:01,700 --> 01:18:03,500 Preparations are well underway tonight 1743 01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:05,480 for the Jacksons' Victory Tour concert. 1744 01:18:05,530 --> 01:18:07,536 The Jacksons' massive stage was beginning 1745 01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:09,360 to take shape as early as Thursday. 1746 01:18:09,560 --> 01:18:11,096 There's not too many places 1747 01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:12,976 that you can stick a monstrous stage like this. 1748 01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:15,320 Most of the performances, more than 50 in all, 1749 01:18:15,400 --> 01:18:18,450 will be in stadiums like the Silverdome. 1750 01:18:18,650 --> 01:18:19,910 ♪ Pretty young thing ♪ 1751 01:18:20,110 --> 01:18:22,620 - ♪ You need some loving ♪ - ♪ TLC ♪ 1752 01:18:22,820 --> 01:18:24,370 ♪ Tender lovin' care ♪ 1753 01:18:24,570 --> 01:18:27,670 ♪ And I'll take you there, girl ♪ 1754 01:18:27,870 --> 01:18:30,480 ♪ Ooh-ooh, I want to love you... ♪ 1755 01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:32,496 The shows of the Victory Tour 1756 01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:34,126 were much more mainstream America, 1757 01:18:34,150 --> 01:18:37,850 and that was a testament to how big Michael had become 1758 01:18:38,050 --> 01:18:41,080 and to the penetration of the album. 1759 01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:42,280 ♪ Ow! ♪ 1760 01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:46,346 The irony of Thriller is that 1761 01:18:46,370 --> 01:18:47,716 there was never a tour solely dedicated 1762 01:18:47,740 --> 01:18:49,630 to the biggest LP of all time. 1763 01:18:49,830 --> 01:18:51,280 The Victory Tour was a mix 1764 01:18:51,480 --> 01:18:54,550 of vintage Jackson family music and hits from Thriller. 1765 01:18:54,750 --> 01:18:56,436 But it was the Thriller material 1766 01:18:56,460 --> 01:18:58,780 that turned the crowd out every night. 1767 01:19:02,780 --> 01:19:04,870 ♪ Hee! Hoo! ♪ 1768 01:19:14,170 --> 01:19:16,430 ♪ She says I am the one ♪ 1769 01:19:16,630 --> 01:19:19,470 ♪ But the kid is not my son ♪ 1770 01:19:19,670 --> 01:19:22,840 ♪ No, no, no ♪ 1771 01:19:23,340 --> 01:19:26,440 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1772 01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:31,110 ♪ She's just a girl who claims that I am the one ♪ 1773 01:19:31,310 --> 01:19:34,810 ♪ But the kid is not my son ♪ 1774 01:19:36,190 --> 01:19:38,200 ♪ She says I am the one ♪ 1775 01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:52,040 ♪ Whoo! ♪ 1776 01:19:52,240 --> 01:19:54,110 ♪ You know you ain't ♪ 1777 01:19:54,310 --> 01:19:55,740 ♪ Not my lover ♪ 1778 01:19:55,940 --> 01:19:59,320 - ♪ You know you can't ♪ - ♪ Not my lover ♪ 1779 01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:01,240 ♪ Because you are ♪ 1780 01:20:01,440 --> 01:20:02,800 ♪ Not my lover ♪ 1781 01:20:03,010 --> 01:20:05,080 ♪ 'Cause you're a silly girl ♪ 1782 01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:06,750 ♪ Not my lover ♪ 1783 01:20:06,950 --> 01:20:10,310 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1784 01:20:10,510 --> 01:20:13,750 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1785 01:20:13,950 --> 01:20:17,280 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1786 01:20:17,480 --> 01:20:21,050 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1787 01:20:37,420 --> 01:20:40,710 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1788 01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,390 ♪ Billie Jean is not my lover ♪ 1789 01:20:45,590 --> 01:20:48,520 Michael has been nominated for 12... 1790 01:20:48,720 --> 01:20:52,420 12 1983 Grammy Awards. 1791 01:20:52,620 --> 01:20:54,210 The highest number in history. 1792 01:20:57,850 --> 01:21:01,050 So we went to the 1984 Grammys 1793 01:21:01,250 --> 01:21:03,950 at the Shrine Auditorium. 1794 01:21:04,150 --> 01:21:06,216 I didn't get the feeling he was nervous. 1795 01:21:06,240 --> 01:21:07,640 I actually got the feeling that 1796 01:21:07,690 --> 01:21:09,410 he was excited. 1797 01:21:10,370 --> 01:21:13,690 And I don't think I had any idea 1798 01:21:13,890 --> 01:21:15,380 even the magnitude of it. 1799 01:21:15,580 --> 01:21:17,800 ♪ Keep on with the force, don't stop ♪ 1800 01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:20,320 ♪ Don't stop till you get enough, keep on... ♪ 1801 01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:22,480 Michael Jackson was nominated 1802 01:21:22,580 --> 01:21:24,010 for 12 Grammys overall, 1803 01:21:24,210 --> 01:21:27,760 including Album of the Year and Record of the Year. 1804 01:21:27,970 --> 01:21:31,260 ♪ And I feel on fire ♪ 1805 01:21:32,310 --> 01:21:35,060 ♪ Ain't nothin'... ♪ 1806 01:21:35,260 --> 01:21:37,656 The Record of the Year is... 1807 01:21:37,680 --> 01:21:38,956 "Beat It," Michael Jackson. 1808 01:21:38,980 --> 01:21:40,686 For Album of the Year... 1809 01:21:40,710 --> 01:21:42,146 The winner is... 1810 01:21:42,170 --> 01:21:44,110 Thriller! 1811 01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:50,330 ♪ Sensation ♪ 1812 01:21:50,530 --> 01:21:51,890 ♪ Oh, sensation ♪ 1813 01:21:52,090 --> 01:21:53,570 ♪ Lovely where we're at... ♪ 1814 01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:57,540 Best Pop Vocal Performance, Male: Michael Jackson. 1815 01:22:00,890 --> 01:22:02,646 I made a deal with myself, if I win more... 1816 01:22:02,670 --> 01:22:04,490 one more award, which is this award, 1817 01:22:04,690 --> 01:22:06,470 which is seven, which is a record, 1818 01:22:06,670 --> 01:22:08,950 I would take off my glasses. 1819 01:22:11,220 --> 01:22:14,060 ♪ Ooh, keep on with the force, don't stop ♪ 1820 01:22:14,260 --> 01:22:16,480 ♪ Don't stop till you get enough ♪ 1821 01:22:16,680 --> 01:22:18,900 ♪ Keep on with the force, don't stop ♪ 1822 01:22:19,100 --> 01:22:20,806 ♪ Don't stop till you get enough ♪ 1823 01:22:20,830 --> 01:22:22,896 ♪ Keep on with the force, don't stop... ♪ 1824 01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:24,320 He deserved it. 1825 01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:26,950 You know, it was... it was due. 1826 01:22:27,150 --> 01:22:29,410 ♪ Don't stop till you get enough ♪ 1827 01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:37,630 In February 1984, 1828 01:22:37,830 --> 01:22:41,330 between Michael and Quincy, Thriller won a dozen Grammys. 1829 01:22:45,050 --> 01:22:46,916 Well, as we know, Thriller is 1830 01:22:46,940 --> 01:22:49,030 a huge, huge success... the album... 1831 01:22:49,230 --> 01:22:50,970 but, uh... 1832 01:22:51,170 --> 01:22:52,906 the joy of doing something phenomenal 1833 01:22:52,930 --> 01:22:55,520 'cause everybody waiting to see the next big, 1834 01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:57,440 you know, Michael Jackson short. 1835 01:22:57,640 --> 01:22:59,766 And I thought "Thriller" was the perfect vehicle. 1836 01:22:59,790 --> 01:23:01,076 - We're gonna come out. - No. 1837 01:23:01,100 --> 01:23:02,916 - No one's gonna like it. - No, no, no, no, no. 1838 01:23:02,940 --> 01:23:04,530 But 40 years from now, Michael... 1839 01:23:04,730 --> 01:23:05,730 My part will be. 1840 01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:07,780 I don't know about you. 1841 01:23:07,980 --> 01:23:09,410 All right, and stop. 1842 01:23:09,610 --> 01:23:11,200 Cut. 1843 01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:13,180 Who's your biggest inspiration? 1844 01:23:13,380 --> 01:23:15,210 Who inspired you the most? 1845 01:23:15,410 --> 01:23:16,410 Michael Jackson. 1846 01:23:16,550 --> 01:23:18,480 Michael saw that he could 1847 01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:20,306 touch greatness with Off the Wall, 1848 01:23:20,330 --> 01:23:23,110 knew he was still going against racist radio 1849 01:23:23,310 --> 01:23:25,990 and people that wanted to put him in a box. 1850 01:23:26,190 --> 01:23:29,800 But you have to be so in the rarefied air, 1851 01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:34,790 .0001%, to even be able to, like, project yourself to that. 1852 01:23:34,990 --> 01:23:37,690 That idea that I can take 1853 01:23:37,890 --> 01:23:40,590 dance music and visuals 1854 01:23:40,780 --> 01:23:42,340 and turn the world on its ear, 1855 01:23:42,540 --> 01:23:46,670 that idea that he crystallized in "Thriller"... not going away, 1856 01:23:46,870 --> 01:23:49,360 and I don't think it's ever gonna go away. 1857 01:23:49,860 --> 01:23:51,220 So, whether it was 1858 01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:53,850 "Human Nature" and his amazing voice, 1859 01:23:54,050 --> 01:23:55,850 you know, "Beat It" and looking at 1860 01:23:56,050 --> 01:23:58,460 the references that were there, because every time 1861 01:23:58,660 --> 01:24:01,460 you saw a video, you got a new idea of, like, 1862 01:24:01,660 --> 01:24:03,746 who he was as an artist and what he was selling. 1863 01:24:03,770 --> 01:24:06,880 Right? There was his hair and his clothing, his wardrobe. 1864 01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:09,740 All of those things were informing the culture. 1865 01:24:09,940 --> 01:24:12,330 He was establishing the standard. 1866 01:24:12,520 --> 01:24:13,790 Thriller. 1867 01:24:13,980 --> 01:24:18,310 Man, there has never been anything like that. 1868 01:24:18,510 --> 01:24:20,540 Michael Jackson's Thriller. 1869 01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:26,440 What's the problem? 1870 01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:30,110 Come on, I'll take you home. 1871 01:24:56,510 --> 01:24:59,710 ♪ They told him, "Don't you ever come around here ♪ 1872 01:24:59,910 --> 01:25:02,900 ♪ Don't wanna see your face, you better disappear" ♪ 1873 01:25:03,100 --> 01:25:06,420 ♪ The fire's in their eyes and their words are really clear ♪ 1874 01:25:06,620 --> 01:25:10,280 ♪ So beat it, just beat it ♪ 1875 01:25:10,480 --> 01:25:13,280 ♪ You better run, you better do what you can ♪ 1876 01:25:13,480 --> 01:25:16,870 ♪ Don't wanna see no blood, don't be a macho man ♪ 1877 01:25:17,070 --> 01:25:20,460 ♪ You wanna be tough, better do what you can ♪ 1878 01:25:20,660 --> 01:25:22,020 ♪ So beat it ♪ 1879 01:25:22,220 --> 01:25:23,810 ♪ But you wanna be bad ♪ 1880 01:25:24,010 --> 01:25:27,570 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1881 01:25:27,770 --> 01:25:30,420 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 1882 01:25:30,620 --> 01:25:33,930 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1883 01:25:34,130 --> 01:25:37,370 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1884 01:25:37,570 --> 01:25:40,910 - ♪ Just beat it, just beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1885 01:25:41,110 --> 01:25:42,330 ♪ Just beat it ♪ 1886 01:25:42,530 --> 01:25:44,860 - ♪ Beat it, beat it, uh! ♪ - ♪ Just beat it ♪ 1887 01:25:45,060 --> 01:25:48,050 ♪ They're out to get you, better leave while you can ♪ 1888 01:25:48,250 --> 01:25:51,720 ♪ Don't wanna be a boy, you wanna be a man ♪ 1889 01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:54,680 ♪ You wanna stay alive, better do what you can ♪ 1890 01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:58,410 ♪ So beat it, just beat it ♪ 1891 01:25:58,610 --> 01:26:01,870 ♪ You have to show them that you're really not scared ♪ 1892 01:26:02,070 --> 01:26:04,920 ♪ You're playin' with your life, this ain't no truth or dare ♪ 1893 01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:07,096 ♪ They'll kick you, then they'll beat you ♪ 1894 01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:10,570 ♪ Then they'll tell you it's fair, so beat it ♪ 1895 01:26:10,770 --> 01:26:12,240 ♪ But you wanna be bad ♪ 1896 01:26:12,440 --> 01:26:15,950 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1897 01:26:16,150 --> 01:26:18,970 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 1898 01:26:19,170 --> 01:26:22,270 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1899 01:26:22,470 --> 01:26:25,250 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1900 01:26:25,450 --> 01:26:29,800 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1901 01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:32,860 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 1902 01:26:33,060 --> 01:26:36,280 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1903 01:26:36,480 --> 01:26:39,430 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1904 01:26:39,630 --> 01:26:42,540 ♪ Just beat it, beat it, beat it, beat it ♪ 1905 01:26:42,740 --> 01:26:45,120 ♪ Beat it, beat it, beat it ♪ 1906 01:26:49,670 --> 01:26:52,130 ♪ Beat it, beat it, beat it ♪ 1907 01:26:52,710 --> 01:26:54,800 ♪ Beat it, beat it, beat it ♪ 1908 01:26:59,300 --> 01:27:02,090 ♪ Beat it, beat it, beat it ♪ 1909 01:27:35,380 --> 01:27:38,990 - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1910 01:27:39,190 --> 01:27:41,930 ♪ No one wants to be defeated ♪ 1911 01:27:42,130 --> 01:27:45,350 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1912 01:27:45,550 --> 01:27:48,500 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1913 01:27:48,700 --> 01:27:52,190 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1914 01:27:52,390 --> 01:27:55,530 ♪ No one wants to be defeated, oh, Lord ♪ 1915 01:27:55,730 --> 01:27:59,200 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1916 01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:02,510 ♪ It doesn't matter who's wrong or right ♪ 1917 01:28:02,710 --> 01:28:06,270 - ♪ Just beat it, beat it ♪ - ♪ Beat it, beat it ♪ 1918 01:28:06,470 --> 01:28:09,250 ♪ No one wants to be defeated, oh, no ♪ 1919 01:28:09,450 --> 01:28:13,340 ♪ Showin' how funky and strong is your fight ♪ 1920 01:28:13,540 --> 01:28:15,840 ♪ It doesn't matter ♪ 148851