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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:00,083 --> 00:00:04,166 I saw him three days before. He came to see me in prison. 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 3 00:00:05,291 --> 00:00:07,750 He came at night. That's usually not allowed. 4 00:00:07,958 --> 00:00:10,333 But they let him in, only because it was Nemtsov. 5 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 6 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:12,166 We discussed the spring march, 7 00:00:12,333 --> 00:00:15,500 ...how we wouldn't hold it in the centre, but in the city outskirts instead. 8 00:00:15,666 --> 00:00:19,958 He joked around, like usual. He took photos with all of the cops. 9 00:00:20,125 --> 00:00:22,666 He was ebullient. 10 00:00:23,458 --> 00:00:27,750 That night, I arrived in Moscow at 11:30 p.m. 11 00:00:30,083 --> 00:00:33,041 I went to Zhanna's place and we went to sleep. 12 00:00:33,208 --> 00:00:35,541 She switches her phone off at night. But I don't. 13 00:00:35,708 --> 00:00:41,166 About an hour later a friend called me. We got up and ran to the bridge. 14 00:00:41,333 --> 00:00:44,041 I got there about 20 minutes later. 15 00:00:44,500 --> 00:00:47,833 Those 20 minutes were the worst of my life. 16 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,458 Mind-numbing powerlessness. 17 00:00:51,708 --> 00:00:54,000 A FILM BY MIKHAIL FISHMAN AND VERA KRICHEVSKAYA 18 00:00:54,166 --> 00:00:58,333 When I found out that Boris had been killed, 19 00:00:58,750 --> 00:01:01,583 ...it was a shock for everyone. 20 00:01:06,750 --> 00:01:08,750 It was impossible to believe. 21 00:01:09,250 --> 00:01:15,208 It was a reality that was impossible to accept. 22 00:01:20,416 --> 00:01:26,333 I keep thinking that I should call him. 23 00:01:27,666 --> 00:01:30,833 Nemtsov was too vibrant and too free... 24 00:01:33,916 --> 00:01:36,708 ...to be gone forever. 25 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,958 Love of power is a perversion. 26 00:01:41,125 --> 00:01:45,166 You love a woman, children, your mother and father, right? 27 00:01:45,333 --> 00:01:47,375 Power can be respected, or to the contrary, 28 00:01:47,541 --> 00:01:48,916 it may be trusted, or not trusted. 29 00:01:49,083 --> 00:01:50,583 BULLETS HIT ALL OF US. 30 00:01:50,750 --> 00:01:52,416 But love of power is slavery. 31 00:01:53,416 --> 00:01:55,916 This is Russia's main affliction. 32 00:02:07,583 --> 00:02:11,541 I declare the contest open... 33 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,666 ...and ask my grandson, Boris Yeltsin, 34 00:02:16,833 --> 00:02:18,916 ...to hand me a racket and a ball. 35 00:02:19,166 --> 00:02:21,208 This was Yeltsin's last visit. 36 00:02:21,375 --> 00:02:26,458 He had people from his pool with him. 37 00:02:27,041 --> 00:02:31,083 Local journalists were not as important. 38 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:35,666 But I managed to get an interview. 39 00:02:36,416 --> 00:02:42,166 They were busy and playing tennis. Then they suddenly shouted to me: 40 00:02:42,333 --> 00:02:43,833 "It's either now or never." 41 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,500 Two and a half years ago you said you had faith in Nemtsov, 42 00:02:46,666 --> 00:02:49,916 ...even though he was a very young governor. 43 00:02:50,083 --> 00:02:55,000 He said, "Yes. It's time for him to aim for the presidency. 44 00:02:55,166 --> 00:03:00,416 He's grown so much, he's ready for the presidency." 45 00:03:04,916 --> 00:03:10,250 I even remember the place: A tennis court in Nizhny Novgorod. 46 00:03:10,416 --> 00:03:13,750 He said, jokingly, for the first time: "Well, now I am at peace. 47 00:03:13,916 --> 00:03:15,375 I can retire. 48 00:03:15,916 --> 00:03:21,166 Here's the young man who will be my successor." 49 00:03:22,208 --> 00:03:25,458 Dad liked him more than the rest. 50 00:03:26,791 --> 00:03:27,875 I don't know why. 51 00:03:28,041 --> 00:03:32,958 Maybe because they had something in common. 52 00:03:33,125 --> 00:03:36,291 They even looked a little alike: 53 00:03:36,458 --> 00:03:40,583 ...both were tall and imposing. 54 00:03:40,833 --> 00:03:48,666 Maybe also because Dad had no sons. He saw a kindred spirit in him. 55 00:03:48,833 --> 00:03:51,833 They had common goals and objectives. 56 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,291 They were like-minded. 57 00:04:00,416 --> 00:04:03,375 I was also shocked, but for a different reason. 58 00:04:03,541 --> 00:04:08,166 Not because I had glorious dreams of moving to Moscow. Not at all. 59 00:04:08,833 --> 00:04:14,958 I knew that it would cause trouble for the region. 60 00:04:16,041 --> 00:04:18,125 A month later he said, "What have you done?" 61 00:04:18,291 --> 00:04:23,625 In the past, the Kremlin loved me, but now the situation has changed. 62 00:04:23,791 --> 00:04:30,708 It's now even difficult to do academic research, you know? 63 00:04:30,916 --> 00:04:34,791 Our future and our destiny lie in politics now, 64 00:04:34,958 --> 00:04:37,750 ...although many people are already sick of it. 65 00:04:37,916 --> 00:04:44,708 I hope that in three or four years the intelligentsia... 66 00:04:44,916 --> 00:04:46,208 ...will get out of politics... 67 00:04:46,375 --> 00:04:52,625 ...so they can all be left alone to work. 68 00:04:52,791 --> 00:04:55,791 We won't stay in politics for long. 69 00:04:55,958 --> 00:04:58,375 I mean the intelligentsia. 70 00:04:58,541 --> 00:05:03,416 Boris said, "I want to run as Boris Yefimovich Nemtsov, Jewish. 71 00:05:03,583 --> 00:05:05,416 I don't want to run as a Russian. 72 00:05:05,583 --> 00:05:10,958 I'm Boris, son of Yefim. And we need tolerance in society. 73 00:05:11,125 --> 00:05:14,000 I'm Jewish. If I hide it, they'll write 'Jew' on every leaflet." 74 00:05:14,166 --> 00:05:15,666 It was quite common back then. 75 00:05:15,833 --> 00:05:18,791 A parliament that changes after every election. 76 00:05:19,041 --> 00:05:21,041 I think it was positive. 77 00:05:21,250 --> 00:05:23,333 It's like you're with your wife, 78 00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:27,791 and one day you realize you can't live with her anymore. 79 00:05:27,958 --> 00:05:32,750 It hasn't happened to me yet, but I can imagine it. 80 00:05:33,041 --> 00:05:34,500 You just can't live together. 81 00:05:34,666 --> 00:05:38,708 The same thing happened to the parliament. 82 00:05:38,958 --> 00:05:42,916 The lawmakers start hating each other. They had to leave. 83 00:05:43,083 --> 00:05:48,916 They had the first live debate, with two minutes each. 84 00:05:49,083 --> 00:05:51,666 There were thirteen candidates. It was on live TV. 85 00:05:52,333 --> 00:05:53,916 After a pause, he said, 86 00:05:56,083 --> 00:06:00,541 "There are so many people here and everyone promises something. 87 00:06:00,916 --> 00:06:03,791 They are good people. They promise anything and everything. 88 00:06:03,958 --> 00:06:07,625 I will not promise anything. Except one thing." He paused. 89 00:06:07,791 --> 00:06:09,375 "I will not lie." 90 00:06:10,291 --> 00:06:15,125 And he looked into the camera. "I will not lie." 91 00:06:15,333 --> 00:06:16,416 Brilliant! 92 00:06:16,583 --> 00:06:18,875 It was autumn 1993. 93 00:06:19,041 --> 00:06:24,000 Boris Nemtsov was wearing a black suit with white socks. 94 00:06:24,166 --> 00:06:27,583 That's my first memory of him. 95 00:06:27,750 --> 00:06:33,000 Boris was never a communist or a Komsomol leader. 96 00:06:33,291 --> 00:06:35,666 He was always a dissident. 97 00:06:37,416 --> 00:06:44,083 He wasn't like the other officials and factory... 98 00:06:44,333 --> 00:06:47,333 ..."red directors." 99 00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:53,291 This ineffective regime is absurd. 100 00:06:53,833 --> 00:06:55,666 It is a thing of the past. 101 00:06:55,875 --> 00:06:58,125 I disliked him immensely. 102 00:06:58,791 --> 00:07:01,708 He was a bit nuts. 103 00:07:02,291 --> 00:07:05,166 He was a very popular governor. 104 00:07:05,541 --> 00:07:09,541 Very successful. He was handsome. 105 00:07:10,875 --> 00:07:14,250 All the women in town fell at his feet. 106 00:07:14,708 --> 00:07:17,375 Quiet! Put the camera away! 107 00:07:20,833 --> 00:07:26,958 He wore white socks and was very handsome. 108 00:07:28,541 --> 00:07:34,958 He was energetic, impetuous. He was fantastic. 109 00:07:35,583 --> 00:07:39,083 I became governor because there was a revolution. 110 00:07:39,250 --> 00:07:43,541 Revolutions always let young people rise up. 111 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,625 People from the old system are cast aside. 112 00:07:46,791 --> 00:07:49,416 Yeltsin was a man of experience, an adult. 113 00:07:49,583 --> 00:07:54,208 He saw this young guy and said, "You're very young. 114 00:07:54,625 --> 00:07:56,125 You have no life experience. 115 00:07:56,375 --> 00:07:59,166 The region is crucial to the country. The USSR collapsed. 116 00:07:59,333 --> 00:08:04,083 There is rationing. There's no food, no medicine. 117 00:08:04,250 --> 00:08:05,791 No fuel oil. 118 00:08:05,958 --> 00:08:09,791 I'll put you in charge for three months. 119 00:08:09,958 --> 00:08:12,625 I'll come and check. If you fail, I'll fire you." 120 00:08:13,541 --> 00:08:17,500 After the coup, at the request of Yeltsin and Gorbachev, 121 00:08:17,666 --> 00:08:20,333 I became the head of the USSR Cabinet. 122 00:08:21,666 --> 00:08:29,458 The economy had ground to a halt, along with the rest of the state. 123 00:08:29,791 --> 00:08:33,375 Boris came to me every three days. 124 00:08:33,916 --> 00:08:37,875 He could solve a million problems because we were friends. 125 00:08:38,041 --> 00:08:40,166 He had specific problems: 126 00:08:40,375 --> 00:08:42,916 To make the trolleybuses in Nizhny Novgorod run. 127 00:08:43,083 --> 00:08:44,750 To keep the heat on in apartments. 128 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,166 There's no petrol. No petrol. 129 00:08:48,375 --> 00:08:51,208 - Maybe there's premium? - Premium? There's none at all. 130 00:08:51,375 --> 00:08:53,416 - Maybe it's just today? - It's been like this for a week. 131 00:08:53,583 --> 00:08:55,833 - Let's go to a gas station. - Without gas? There's none! 132 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,375 - Let's go to a gas station. - Let's go. 133 00:08:58,625 --> 00:09:01,708 - We'll go without him. - No, he should go, too. 134 00:09:01,875 --> 00:09:04,875 Why? Might as well take everyone then. 135 00:09:07,375 --> 00:09:09,666 We'll check. If he lied to us, that's it. 136 00:09:09,833 --> 00:09:13,000 It was hard. I remember them saying, 137 00:09:13,166 --> 00:09:18,458 "We have coal for X number of days, enough food for X..." 138 00:09:19,958 --> 00:09:21,625 But he managed. 139 00:09:22,250 --> 00:09:25,208 The dog and pony show in the canteen is better than usual today. 140 00:09:25,375 --> 00:09:29,166 Prices rose 50-fold, but Yeltsin came. 141 00:09:29,333 --> 00:09:31,416 He said, "I want to visit a grocery store." 142 00:09:31,583 --> 00:09:34,291 I said, "OK." He said, "I'll choose it myself." 143 00:09:34,458 --> 00:09:38,833 We drove around until he said, "This one." 144 00:09:39,583 --> 00:09:42,000 Of course, all the old ladies jumped on him: 145 00:09:42,166 --> 00:09:43,791 "What have you done?" etc. 146 00:09:43,958 --> 00:09:47,958 He went to the counter. Butter was 305 rubles. 147 00:09:48,416 --> 00:09:50,250 Before it was 5 rubles 50 kopeks. 148 00:09:50,416 --> 00:09:52,333 Yeltsin asked me, 149 00:09:53,500 --> 00:09:55,041 "Who set these prices?" 150 00:09:55,208 --> 00:09:58,041 I said, "You did." He said, "Me?" 151 00:09:58,208 --> 00:10:01,250 Well, you let the prices rise and this is where they rose to. 152 00:10:01,416 --> 00:10:03,083 Who is the director of the dairy factory? 153 00:10:03,250 --> 00:10:04,166 Dokukin. 154 00:10:04,333 --> 00:10:06,291 Yeltsin says: "Fire Dokukin. And bring the prices down." 155 00:10:06,458 --> 00:10:09,625 I said: "I get it. 156 00:10:10,208 --> 00:10:13,500 But, you know, the prices..." 157 00:10:13,666 --> 00:10:15,708 "Just fire the director." 158 00:10:16,416 --> 00:10:21,625 When Yeltsin left, I called him. He turned out to be a decent guy. 159 00:10:21,875 --> 00:10:23,958 He said, "I'm head of a Joint-Stock Company. 160 00:10:24,125 --> 00:10:25,500 The governor can't fire me." 161 00:10:25,666 --> 00:10:27,541 I said, "I know, but Yeltsin asked me to." 162 00:10:27,708 --> 00:10:31,083 He said: "You're a cool guy, I don't want you to be sacked. 163 00:10:31,250 --> 00:10:33,083 So I'll resign." 164 00:10:33,875 --> 00:10:38,291 Yeltsin called to see if I'd fired him. 165 00:10:39,125 --> 00:10:44,875 In the spring of 1992 he persuaded me to come to Nizhny Novgorod. 166 00:10:45,708 --> 00:10:52,458 That's when I came up with a program to save the region economically. 167 00:10:52,666 --> 00:10:56,791 There'd been no modernization and no new industry — just an oil refinery. 168 00:10:56,958 --> 00:10:59,791 This is the result. All the same... 169 00:10:59,958 --> 00:11:02,708 I want every petrol station to have petrol by tomorrow. 170 00:11:02,875 --> 00:11:07,875 We didn't meet in the best circumstances. 171 00:11:08,333 --> 00:11:12,625 During privatization, our voucher fund Alfa Capital... 172 00:11:13,375 --> 00:11:18,250 ...bought shares in companies that were being privatized. 173 00:11:18,416 --> 00:11:25,125 This included several in the Nizhny Novgorod region. 174 00:11:25,291 --> 00:11:28,458 The local authorities put up some obstacles. 175 00:11:29,375 --> 00:11:34,291 We needed support, or at least no resistance... 176 00:11:34,458 --> 00:11:36,916 ...from the administration. 177 00:11:37,083 --> 00:11:42,375 So I flew to see him 178 00:11:43,208 --> 00:11:45,875 with Pyotr Aven and German Khan. 179 00:11:46,333 --> 00:11:48,083 We went into his office. 180 00:11:48,250 --> 00:11:55,250 He said, "What are you here for? Do you want to steal a factory from me?" 181 00:11:55,416 --> 00:11:59,833 Actually what he said was much cruder. 182 00:12:00,208 --> 00:12:02,833 "Well, you're not going to steal anything. 183 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,000 Give me $500 million and the factory is yours. 184 00:12:07,375 --> 00:12:10,666 Am I clear, God damn it? Any questions?" 185 00:12:12,208 --> 00:12:16,291 And we mumbled, "Oh, you know, well, so then..." 186 00:12:16,458 --> 00:12:18,458 Just babbling. 187 00:12:18,750 --> 00:12:22,375 "I'm busy. Good-bye. End of meeting." 188 00:12:23,416 --> 00:12:30,250 Our relationship was strained, to put it mildly. 189 00:12:30,833 --> 00:12:36,583 He always tried to project an equivocal attitude to the men... 190 00:12:38,958 --> 00:12:42,708 ...called oligarchs at the time. 191 00:12:42,875 --> 00:12:46,750 So his relations with us, and me in particular, were strained. 192 00:12:48,791 --> 00:12:50,000 He kept his distance. 193 00:12:50,166 --> 00:12:51,875 He would use striking metaphors. 194 00:12:52,041 --> 00:12:54,875 Yes, we are repairing our house. 195 00:12:55,541 --> 00:12:57,458 Yes, it's hard to live in it. 196 00:12:57,625 --> 00:13:00,916 There's whitewash everywhere. There's no place to sleep or eat. 197 00:13:01,083 --> 00:13:02,666 We don't want to live like this. 198 00:13:02,833 --> 00:13:04,250 But if we don't do the repairs, 199 00:13:04,416 --> 00:13:06,500 ...our roof will collapse and the walls will cave in. 200 00:13:06,666 --> 00:13:09,208 We don't have any choice, or anywhere else to go. 201 00:13:09,375 --> 00:13:16,333 He explained things every day, slowly, at meetings and on TV. 202 00:13:16,708 --> 00:13:19,875 Like what private property is and why we need it. What freedom is. 203 00:13:20,125 --> 00:13:23,208 Margaret Thatcher visited him, 204 00:13:23,791 --> 00:13:25,625 ...as did many ambassadors. 205 00:13:25,833 --> 00:13:31,500 They have a nose for these things. 206 00:13:31,875 --> 00:13:35,166 We sell this cheese every day. 207 00:13:39,250 --> 00:13:45,583 They sensed where and when they'd seen the future of Russia. 208 00:13:45,958 --> 00:13:52,500 I believe we must not allow the zinc-lined coffins... 209 00:13:52,666 --> 00:13:54,041 ...of our children ... 210 00:13:54,208 --> 00:13:56,541 ...and brothers to appear in Russia. 211 00:13:57,750 --> 00:14:03,625 That's why I am against our army entering Grozny... 212 00:14:04,083 --> 00:14:07,666 ...or any other town or village in Chechnya. 213 00:14:07,833 --> 00:14:12,916 Many men were deployed from Nizhny Novgorod. 214 00:14:13,958 --> 00:14:17,625 Special police forces went. 215 00:14:18,375 --> 00:14:22,000 They died there, and it all came down on him. 216 00:14:22,333 --> 00:14:26,750 I will do everything in power... 217 00:14:28,166 --> 00:14:31,958 ...to persuade my superiors to end this war. 218 00:14:32,125 --> 00:14:37,958 He had to talk to the parents who received these coffins. 219 00:14:38,291 --> 00:14:39,958 There were so many coffins. 220 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:47,208 When this horrible war - the First Chechen War - went on, 221 00:14:48,791 --> 00:14:52,291 ...when soldiers' mothers travelled around Chechnya... 222 00:14:52,583 --> 00:14:57,000 What did Boris do when war fever... 223 00:14:57,166 --> 00:15:00,750 ...and devastation ravaged the country? 224 00:15:01,083 --> 00:15:04,125 Despite being named, officially and unofficially, 225 00:15:04,291 --> 00:15:06,000 ...as Yeltsin's successor, 226 00:15:06,166 --> 00:15:14,250 ...he collected a truckload of signatures and brought them to Yeltsin. 227 00:15:14,708 --> 00:15:19,416 I brought a truck to the Kremlin. 228 00:15:20,041 --> 00:15:22,375 Yeltsin saw the signatures. 229 00:15:23,833 --> 00:15:27,166 The text above them read: 230 00:15:28,166 --> 00:15:32,375 "Dear Boris Nikolayevich, we demand that you immediately stop the war." 231 00:15:32,666 --> 00:15:34,000 Full stop. And signatures. 232 00:15:35,125 --> 00:15:38,750 He looked at them and said: "Are they for me or against me?" 233 00:15:38,916 --> 00:15:40,708 I said, "It depends on you. 234 00:15:40,875 --> 00:15:44,333 If you stop the war, they're for you. If you don't, they're against you." 235 00:15:46,208 --> 00:15:49,416 He said, "You can go." He was furious with me. 236 00:15:50,416 --> 00:15:54,333 But he didn't do anything to me. He just switched off our direct line. 237 00:15:54,541 --> 00:15:58,833 Boris sometimes opposed the president's position, 238 00:15:59,416 --> 00:16:04,625 ...like when he collected signatures against the war. 239 00:16:05,041 --> 00:16:07,041 Dad was hurt by Boris. 240 00:16:07,208 --> 00:16:13,208 Not hurt - sad, perhaps. 241 00:16:14,833 --> 00:16:17,041 He thought they were on the same side, 242 00:16:17,208 --> 00:16:20,125 ...and that Boris would understand the logic and the need... 243 00:16:20,291 --> 00:16:21,916 ...for certain decisions. 244 00:16:22,125 --> 00:16:26,291 But Boris wouldn't give up if he was convinced of something. 245 00:16:26,750 --> 00:16:30,166 Suddenly Yeltsin called me: 246 00:16:30,333 --> 00:16:33,583 "Well, dove of peace, will you go to Chechnya? 247 00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:35,333 We'll negotiate peace." 248 00:16:35,541 --> 00:16:39,000 I think he's a great man for admitting his own mistakes. 249 00:16:39,166 --> 00:16:45,708 At the airfield I met Korzhakov and Barsukov. 250 00:16:46,416 --> 00:16:50,416 They asked me to dissuade Yeltsin from going. 251 00:16:50,875 --> 00:16:52,000 I asked why. 252 00:16:52,166 --> 00:16:55,375 "Because they'll kill him. Do you want him to die?" 253 00:16:55,541 --> 00:16:57,416 I said of course I didn't. 254 00:16:58,125 --> 00:16:59,541 "Dissuade him, he likes you." 255 00:17:00,416 --> 00:17:07,583 He came and asked why we weren't on the plane. 256 00:17:08,416 --> 00:17:14,583 I said, "They have information - 257 00:17:15,250 --> 00:17:18,458 ...there will be an attempt on your life." 258 00:17:18,625 --> 00:17:22,458 He looked at me and said: "Have you chickened out?" 259 00:17:22,791 --> 00:17:25,583 I said, "No." "Well then, Get on the plane. 260 00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:27,708 And you two cowards can stay here." 261 00:17:27,875 --> 00:17:34,708 He told me to stay close to him. I said, "Of course." 262 00:17:36,333 --> 00:17:39,416 He wanted to show that he came in peace, 263 00:17:39,583 --> 00:17:44,875 ...and I was very popular there. Everyone knew I wanted to end the war. 264 00:17:45,083 --> 00:17:47,166 Yesterday Yandarbiyev... 265 00:17:48,958 --> 00:17:50,125 ...signed... 266 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,500 ...the papers to... 267 00:17:53,333 --> 00:17:57,208 ...end military operations. 268 00:17:57,583 --> 00:18:01,083 Stay in office, you're still a healthy man! 269 00:18:01,250 --> 00:18:04,375 I'll think about it! Look at these young men. 270 00:18:04,541 --> 00:18:07,125 No, we need him here. 271 00:18:07,291 --> 00:18:10,125 - He's grown up. - He'll be ready just in time. 272 00:18:10,291 --> 00:18:13,791 - And who will lead Nizhny? - The president. 273 00:18:13,958 --> 00:18:17,166 No, it should be the governor. 274 00:18:17,333 --> 00:18:19,458 The president should take care of Russia. 275 00:18:19,625 --> 00:18:23,208 The economic situation was hard. The Duma elections were lost. 276 00:18:24,875 --> 00:18:29,500 Communists and Zhirinovsky's party were in control, 277 00:18:30,291 --> 00:18:34,500 ...so there was great risk of losing the election. 278 00:18:34,666 --> 00:18:39,041 Many people thought Yeltsin wouldn't be re-elected. 279 00:18:39,208 --> 00:18:41,375 The late Gaidar in particular. 280 00:18:41,916 --> 00:18:46,541 At some point, Gaidar went to Nizhny Novgorod... 281 00:18:46,708 --> 00:18:49,458 ...to meet and talk to Nemtsov... 282 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:57,000 ...about running for president. 283 00:18:57,166 --> 00:19:00,833 We have come to the conclusion... 284 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,875 that Boris Nemtsov could consolidate... 285 00:19:06,041 --> 00:19:09,041 ...the democratic electorate. 286 00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:12,125 Nemtsov told him to shove it. 287 00:19:12,291 --> 00:19:14,416 Say a couple of words for the record. 288 00:19:14,583 --> 00:19:19,291 For the record, I want to say that I'm happy to see you. 289 00:19:19,958 --> 00:19:23,625 He said, "No, Yegor, you're crazy." 290 00:19:23,791 --> 00:19:28,500 The law of the pendulum shows, as we've observed in Eastern Europe, 291 00:19:28,875 --> 00:19:32,041 ...that when it's Yeltsin vs. Zyuganov, Zyuganov wins. 292 00:19:32,416 --> 00:19:37,458 Even if we convince swing voters that communists are worse, 293 00:19:37,875 --> 00:19:44,250 ... half of them wouldn't vote for Yeltsin anyway. 294 00:19:44,583 --> 00:19:47,291 I was in Davos... 295 00:19:47,958 --> 00:19:51,208 All the oligarchs were fighting each other. 296 00:19:51,375 --> 00:19:56,000 Especially Berezovsky and Gusinsky. 297 00:19:57,750 --> 00:20:02,666 An enemy of Gusinsky asked me, 298 00:20:03,291 --> 00:20:05,875 "How do I find Gusinsky?" 299 00:20:06,166 --> 00:20:11,541 I said, "Why?" He said, "I have to talk to him." 300 00:20:11,875 --> 00:20:17,041 So I passed it on. They immediately got in touch. 301 00:20:17,208 --> 00:20:24,208 And then a slightly amazed Gusinsky told me, 302 00:20:25,791 --> 00:20:31,916 "Berezovsky proposed a truce so that we can join forces to support Yeltsin." 303 00:20:32,666 --> 00:20:35,666 It was clear... 304 00:20:37,250 --> 00:20:40,125 ...that Yeltsin would stay in power, 305 00:20:40,625 --> 00:20:46,208 ...but how? 306 00:20:46,416 --> 00:20:52,708 One group advocated using force. 307 00:20:53,583 --> 00:20:55,250 Bring in the troops. 308 00:20:55,916 --> 00:21:00,916 The other group said they could win... 309 00:21:01,208 --> 00:21:03,708 ...without a show of force. 310 00:21:03,958 --> 00:21:11,708 We thought we were choosing the lesser of two evils. 311 00:21:11,875 --> 00:21:13,833 We wrote a letter. 312 00:21:14,083 --> 00:21:17,416 This group was later called "The Banker Gang." 313 00:21:17,666 --> 00:21:22,916 We told Zyuganov and Yeltsin to stop fighting and deal... 314 00:21:23,125 --> 00:21:26,833 ...with social tensions, etc. 315 00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:35,583 I remember clearly that everyone said Yeltsin had to win, 316 00:21:35,750 --> 00:21:37,916 ...or it would be the end of everything. 317 00:21:38,208 --> 00:21:42,416 Maybe it was too bold of me - 318 00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:46,000 ...I'm far from politics - 319 00:21:46,333 --> 00:21:52,916 ...but I said, "May I offer another point of view? 320 00:21:53,291 --> 00:21:59,500 We will be worse off personally if Zyuganov wins. 321 00:22:00,458 --> 00:22:03,791 But from a historical perspective, 322 00:22:04,125 --> 00:22:07,166 ....perhaps it would be better for the country?" 323 00:22:08,958 --> 00:22:16,500 There would be a precedent for voting... 324 00:22:16,666 --> 00:22:19,666 ...in the opposition. 325 00:22:19,833 --> 00:22:26,416 That would be important for our historical development. 326 00:22:26,708 --> 00:22:33,041 I got the cold shoulder for that. 327 00:22:33,208 --> 00:22:39,250 So I shut up after that. 328 00:22:39,416 --> 00:22:44,000 I think if Zyuganov wins the communists will split. 329 00:22:44,583 --> 00:22:46,041 There is a chance that.... 330 00:22:46,208 --> 00:22:49,166 ...a powerful political opposition will be formed - 331 00:22:49,333 --> 00:22:53,875 ... one without infighting. 332 00:22:54,041 --> 00:22:56,375 I think, within this... 333 00:22:56,541 --> 00:23:01,541 ...very real, possible or even likely outcome, 334 00:23:02,083 --> 00:23:08,708 ...our President could take a great step to protect Russia... 335 00:23:08,875 --> 00:23:11,208 ...from this sort of calamity. 336 00:23:11,375 --> 00:23:16,541 I mean amending the Constitution to restrict presidential power. 337 00:23:17,458 --> 00:23:21,750 At the time I did not have... 338 00:23:23,625 --> 00:23:27,583 ...Boris's democratic conviction... 339 00:23:28,250 --> 00:23:32,833 ... to say: "Let Zyuganov win." 340 00:23:33,333 --> 00:23:38,416 I think Nemtsov was right. For Russia, Zyuganov's victory... 341 00:23:38,583 --> 00:23:40,750 ...would not have been tragic. 342 00:23:40,916 --> 00:23:47,333 It could have moved Russia more quickly to... 343 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:55,000 ...real democracy and the succession of power, 344 00:23:55,208 --> 00:24:00,958 ...in a normal, democratic, and peaceful way. 345 00:24:01,125 --> 00:24:06,500 In the first round in my region Zyuganov and Yeltsin were tied. 346 00:24:06,666 --> 00:24:09,958 Before the second round Zyuganov came to see me. 347 00:24:10,125 --> 00:24:13,500 I said, "Sure, I'll introduce you to my team." 348 00:24:13,666 --> 00:24:17,333 In the provinces, people in your party... 349 00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:21,208 ....are usually eternal losers, the kind who want revenge. 350 00:24:21,708 --> 00:24:24,583 You may be a good man, but they are like this. 351 00:24:24,750 --> 00:24:28,958 I am afraid that your victory would be tragic for the country. 352 00:24:29,125 --> 00:24:31,291 Although you might be a good man. 353 00:24:31,458 --> 00:24:36,750 That is why no one on this side will vote for you. 354 00:24:37,916 --> 00:24:39,791 How do you feel? 355 00:24:40,541 --> 00:24:42,833 Well, compared... 356 00:24:44,208 --> 00:24:46,458 ...to the first days... 357 00:24:47,125 --> 00:24:50,833 ...after the operation, I feel fine. 358 00:24:51,875 --> 00:24:54,000 Let's sit down here. 359 00:24:56,666 --> 00:24:58,166 Yes, there's a breeze. 360 00:24:58,750 --> 00:25:03,416 He's still very tense, he wants to catch up. 361 00:25:03,583 --> 00:25:06,375 I want him to have a bit more rest. 362 00:25:06,625 --> 00:25:12,666 Chernomyrdin eventually persuaded Yeltsin... 363 00:25:14,083 --> 00:25:18,291 ...to move Chubais from Chief of Staff... 364 00:25:19,250 --> 00:25:21,291 ...to First Deputy Prime Minister... 365 00:25:21,458 --> 00:25:23,833 ...in charge of the economy. 366 00:25:25,833 --> 00:25:32,166 Chubais started looking for members for his team, 367 00:25:32,916 --> 00:25:38,166 ...and one of the candidates was Nemtsov. 368 00:25:44,916 --> 00:25:49,666 Chubais called Boris and invited him to the White House. 369 00:25:50,375 --> 00:25:54,250 He was the First Deputy PM at the time. 370 00:25:54,583 --> 00:25:56,625 They talked for a long time. 371 00:25:57,500 --> 00:26:02,125 Chubais asked him to accept my father's offer. 372 00:26:02,583 --> 00:26:06,208 But Boris said, "No, I have so much to do here. 373 00:26:06,375 --> 00:26:08,208 We need reforms here, too." 374 00:26:08,375 --> 00:26:11,041 He turned down the offer. 375 00:26:11,583 --> 00:26:15,458 The idea of him joining the Cabinet... 376 00:26:15,625 --> 00:26:17,833 ... was making the rounds. 377 00:26:18,208 --> 00:26:23,375 There was Chubais, Chernomyrdin and I. 378 00:26:23,666 --> 00:26:25,250 Nothing was working. 379 00:26:25,666 --> 00:26:31,416 Dad thought that maybe I could talk to Boris. 380 00:26:31,583 --> 00:26:35,041 We got along well. We had a good relationship. 381 00:26:35,583 --> 00:26:37,750 Although we rarely saw each other, 382 00:26:37,916 --> 00:26:42,625 ...we were on the same wavelength. 383 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,708 So Dad told me to talk to him again. 384 00:26:46,958 --> 00:26:51,625 Everyone tried to dissuade me, telling me it was suicidal. 385 00:26:52,208 --> 00:26:55,458 Then Yeltsin's daughter came. 386 00:26:57,083 --> 00:26:59,500 I came late in the afternoon. 387 00:27:01,125 --> 00:27:07,416 Valentin Yumashev told him I was coming. 388 00:27:07,583 --> 00:27:09,541 I think Boris was shocked. 389 00:27:09,708 --> 00:27:13,666 He didn't expect the president's daughter - 390 00:27:13,833 --> 00:27:17,708 ...although I was also an adviser to come... 391 00:27:17,916 --> 00:27:19,791 ...and try to persuade him. 392 00:27:21,041 --> 00:27:22,208 She said one thing. 393 00:27:22,375 --> 00:27:25,083 For four hours she tried to persuade me. 394 00:27:25,250 --> 00:27:28,416 She cried, and then she said: "My father has always helped you. 395 00:27:28,583 --> 00:27:29,291 This was true. 396 00:27:29,458 --> 00:27:32,041 Now the time has come for you to help him.'" 397 00:27:32,208 --> 00:27:35,458 As a decent human being, how could I say no? 398 00:27:36,250 --> 00:27:39,791 His human decency always won. 399 00:27:40,625 --> 00:27:42,916 In a politician it's probably wrong. 400 00:27:43,458 --> 00:27:48,166 In a man, especially for a friend, it's wonderful. 401 00:27:48,875 --> 00:27:53,541 I was delighted when Boris agreed the following day. 402 00:27:53,708 --> 00:27:58,208 Before she came, Berezovsky had come, 403 00:27:58,791 --> 00:28:05,333 ....almost incognito, and said: "We've decided. 404 00:28:07,250 --> 00:28:09,458 We want to put you in charge." 405 00:28:10,708 --> 00:28:13,041 I say: "Who's 'we'?" 406 00:28:14,375 --> 00:28:17,791 "The guys - we decided. We told Yeltsin. 407 00:28:18,750 --> 00:28:21,333 He listened to us, of course. 408 00:28:22,333 --> 00:28:24,250 We decided to put you in charge." 409 00:28:24,541 --> 00:28:26,875 I realized then that the country was doomed. 410 00:28:27,041 --> 00:28:31,208 I said, "Boris, quit messing around. This will end badly." 411 00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:33,541 I did not see Berezovsky. 412 00:28:33,708 --> 00:28:37,833 Boris said he ran away when he heard I was coming. 413 00:28:38,041 --> 00:28:42,375 That was so like Berezovsky! If he heard something, 414 00:28:42,583 --> 00:28:45,833 ...he pretended to be part of it. 415 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,291 He told Boris to be grateful to him... 416 00:28:53,208 --> 00:28:54,458 ...for the job. 417 00:28:54,625 --> 00:28:55,916 Three days later... 418 00:28:56,833 --> 00:29:00,875 ...was that famous scene on TV. 419 00:29:01,583 --> 00:29:06,625 Yeltsin said to Chubais, "I've decided to make you... 420 00:29:07,041 --> 00:29:08,833 ....First Deputy Prime Minister. 421 00:29:10,916 --> 00:29:17,791 Second Deputy will be Boris Nemtsov. 422 00:29:20,416 --> 00:29:22,958 And Chubais said, "That's a great decision." 423 00:29:23,125 --> 00:29:24,833 Well, Boris... 424 00:29:27,583 --> 00:29:29,708 This is an interesting choice. 425 00:29:31,458 --> 00:29:32,583 A dangerous one. 426 00:29:32,750 --> 00:29:36,625 You are both young... 427 00:29:36,916 --> 00:29:42,583 ...and you'll create a fresh new team. 428 00:29:44,666 --> 00:29:51,458 Only three days earlier he had told me that he definitely would not go. 429 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,458 It was a difficult time. 430 00:29:54,916 --> 00:30:02,208 Oligarchs could do whatever they wanted... 431 00:30:03,375 --> 00:30:05,750 ...in the Cabinet. 432 00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:13,625 My colleague said that Berezovsky... 433 00:30:13,791 --> 00:30:17,041 ... persuaded you. So who was it? 434 00:30:17,458 --> 00:30:18,750 The president. 435 00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:21,083 - Not Berezovsky or Chubais? - The president. 436 00:30:21,250 --> 00:30:22,500 What was his argument? 437 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:31,500 We talked in general about what he thought the country needed. 438 00:30:32,375 --> 00:30:35,416 There aren't many options. 439 00:30:35,583 --> 00:30:39,875 Either gangster capitalism or human capitalism. 440 00:30:40,041 --> 00:30:41,583 Capitalism with a human face. 441 00:30:42,375 --> 00:30:49,125 I think Yeltsin's team knew they needed... 442 00:30:50,958 --> 00:30:54,833 ...a different sort of man. 443 00:30:55,291 --> 00:30:58,875 One who could not be bought. 444 00:30:59,541 --> 00:31:02,458 There are offers you can't refuse. 445 00:31:02,625 --> 00:31:08,625 I don't know anyone who refused what the president asked of them. 446 00:31:08,791 --> 00:31:13,333 Dad thought that the Cabinet needed new people. 447 00:31:13,833 --> 00:31:15,625 From the provinces. 448 00:31:16,125 --> 00:31:20,958 He always supported young, energetic, talented people. 449 00:31:21,125 --> 00:31:23,250 He believed they were the future. 450 00:31:23,416 --> 00:31:26,541 Boris was the first among them. 451 00:31:27,208 --> 00:31:29,916 The president is considering a successor. 452 00:31:30,083 --> 00:31:33,166 Did that play a role in your appointment? 453 00:31:33,333 --> 00:31:34,375 I think not. 454 00:31:34,958 --> 00:31:40,250 It would be easier for me to move up the political ladder... 455 00:31:40,416 --> 00:31:42,000 ...if I were governor. 456 00:31:42,333 --> 00:31:48,541 In Moscow I'll be like a kamikaze. 457 00:31:48,708 --> 00:31:51,166 The move to Moscow ruined Boris's career. 458 00:31:52,541 --> 00:31:57,375 He would have gone on to be Yeltsin's successor in 1999.. 459 00:31:58,541 --> 00:32:00,541 ...had he not made the move. 460 00:32:00,708 --> 00:32:04,416 He joined us in Moscow in 1997. 461 00:32:04,750 --> 00:32:08,875 Well, I say he joined us in Moscow but I'd only been here for four years. 462 00:32:10,291 --> 00:32:13,000 At first they didn't even give him an apartment. 463 00:32:13,166 --> 00:32:14,250 He stayed at my place. 464 00:32:15,875 --> 00:32:20,666 He'd been in Moscow for a year and still had no apartment. 465 00:32:20,833 --> 00:32:22,083 So he went to Yeltsin. 466 00:32:22,250 --> 00:32:24,375 Yeltsin asked him casually where he was living. 467 00:32:24,541 --> 00:32:27,458 He said, "A house in the countryside. I still don't have an apartment." 468 00:32:27,625 --> 00:32:28,958 "Why is that?" Yeltsin asked. 469 00:32:29,125 --> 00:32:31,333 "Luzhkov won't give me a residence permit." 470 00:32:34,666 --> 00:32:40,541 And so, Yeltsin called Luzhkov. 471 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,625 He said one phrase. 472 00:32:43,791 --> 00:32:45,875 "Nemtsov is sitting here with me." 473 00:32:47,125 --> 00:32:51,500 On the other end Luzhkov said, "And so...?" 474 00:32:52,375 --> 00:32:55,958 "Yury, that's just petty. Petty." And he hung up. 475 00:32:56,375 --> 00:32:59,041 The very next day he got his residence permit. 476 00:32:59,458 --> 00:33:06,125 My team and my friends have forbidden me from speaking about this. 477 00:33:12,916 --> 00:33:15,666 We still have three years before the election. 478 00:33:15,833 --> 00:33:17,500 We've talked about it already. 479 00:33:17,666 --> 00:33:19,375 There are almost three years left. 480 00:33:19,541 --> 00:33:22,458 Why do you want to get rid of me? 481 00:33:22,625 --> 00:33:28,833 Boris was never shy with my father. 482 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,375 Never showed servility or fear. 483 00:33:36,416 --> 00:33:43,458 I saw their relationship during informal meetings, 484 00:33:43,708 --> 00:33:49,791 ...like in 1997 with the Japanese Prime Minister. 485 00:33:49,958 --> 00:33:57,583 It was clear that Yeltsin liked Nemtsov a lot. 486 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,791 Yeltsin liked... 487 00:34:01,833 --> 00:34:07,458 ...to shake things up. 488 00:34:07,625 --> 00:34:11,125 Like when he told Hashimoto, in all seriousness, 489 00:34:11,875 --> 00:34:15,125 "I delegate to Yastrzhembsky and Nemtsov... 490 00:34:15,458 --> 00:34:18,833 ...the task of resolving the Kuril Islands issue by morning." 491 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,666 We agreed to address each other informally. 492 00:34:27,416 --> 00:34:31,333 We using first names: Boris and Ryu. 493 00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:36,791 Tomorrow we'll hear their proposal. 494 00:34:36,958 --> 00:34:38,916 Everyone left. 495 00:34:39,750 --> 00:34:45,333 Boris looked horrified and said, "We're dead." 496 00:34:47,208 --> 00:34:51,416 I said, "Why?" 497 00:34:51,708 --> 00:34:58,500 "We have to commit treason, go against the Constitution." 498 00:34:58,666 --> 00:35:02,500 I said, "Boris, relax. What are you talking about? 499 00:35:02,708 --> 00:35:04,500 We were given a task." 500 00:35:04,666 --> 00:35:07,625 He said, "Yes, to give the islands back." 501 00:35:07,791 --> 00:35:10,916 "Who said we had to return them? 502 00:35:11,083 --> 00:35:14,416 We were given the task of finding a solution by morning. 503 00:35:14,791 --> 00:35:16,750 A solution!" 504 00:35:16,916 --> 00:35:19,958 Every attempt will be made 505 00:35:20,125 --> 00:35:23,666 for us to be ready to sign a peace treaty. Am I right? 506 00:35:23,833 --> 00:35:26,333 "Make every attempt" isn't "sign." 507 00:35:27,583 --> 00:35:33,333 It was like walking on a hot tin roof. 508 00:35:34,291 --> 00:35:37,500 SVYAZINVEST MOSCOW SUMMER 1997 509 00:35:37,666 --> 00:35:41,750 Today we will discuss the ideas of the younger members... 510 00:35:41,916 --> 00:35:43,458 ....of our team. 511 00:35:43,666 --> 00:35:51,041 Chubais's team was very strong intellectually. 512 00:35:51,208 --> 00:35:56,708 The strongest one we've ever had. 513 00:35:57,125 --> 00:35:59,500 I kept Nemtsov... 514 00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:03,250 ...and talked to him. 515 00:36:05,166 --> 00:36:08,000 Of course, the president had the final say. 516 00:36:09,708 --> 00:36:11,500 We need people like him. 517 00:36:11,958 --> 00:36:16,041 Boris didn't go into the Cabinet... 518 00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:21,125 ...to play nice with everyone. 519 00:36:22,166 --> 00:36:28,375 Not to speak well, to look good, to be funny, etc. 520 00:36:28,750 --> 00:36:34,291 He went to there to do serious work, with no corruption. 521 00:36:34,875 --> 00:36:40,500 To achieve institutionally fundamental goals. 522 00:36:40,708 --> 00:36:44,375 When they gave me this position, I had a dream. 523 00:36:44,791 --> 00:36:48,375 In it oil costs $15, or better yet, $35. 524 00:36:48,541 --> 00:36:51,791 Everyone gets $30,000 when they have a baby. 525 00:36:51,958 --> 00:36:54,291 There's free healthcare and education. 526 00:36:54,458 --> 00:36:55,625 Kuwait 2.0 527 00:36:56,416 --> 00:36:59,750 Dad had high hopes for this Cabinet. 528 00:36:59,916 --> 00:37:06,083 I'm sure he expected it would work... 529 00:37:06,250 --> 00:37:09,458 ...until the summer of 2000. 530 00:37:10,041 --> 00:37:12,000 Until the next election. 531 00:37:12,166 --> 00:37:14,625 We designed reforms at our own risk. 532 00:37:15,875 --> 00:37:18,583 Chernomyrdin protected us. 533 00:37:18,750 --> 00:37:23,250 Everyone is working as one, robust team. 534 00:37:23,458 --> 00:37:28,666 That's the way it will stay. 535 00:37:30,125 --> 00:37:35,208 He defended us to Yeltsin as much as he could. 536 00:37:35,375 --> 00:37:39,791 Together with the wise Chernomyrdin, who protected them politically... 537 00:37:40,958 --> 00:37:47,750 ...the young guys on the new team... 538 00:37:47,916 --> 00:37:50,958 ...made the Cabinet very effective. 539 00:37:51,166 --> 00:37:55,000 We saw it in the ratings, 540 00:37:56,458 --> 00:38:00,458 ...the business environment. 541 00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:05,958 The public had fresh hope. 542 00:38:06,208 --> 00:38:12,125 Oil prices were about $12 a barrel. 543 00:38:12,291 --> 00:38:17,666 We owed state workers about three months' salary. 544 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,458 The same backlog for pensions. 545 00:38:20,666 --> 00:38:24,208 So a new Cabinet was formed. 546 00:38:24,916 --> 00:38:32,708 The term "kamikaze" was used. They had to carry out reforms, 547 00:38:33,208 --> 00:38:38,625 ...with their backs to the wall, sacrificing their career... 548 00:38:39,958 --> 00:38:42,250 ...in politics, 549 00:38:43,875 --> 00:38:51,000 ...with total hostility in parliament. 550 00:38:51,250 --> 00:38:58,791 There was a lot of pressure. We had a free democratic press. 551 00:38:59,125 --> 00:39:01,291 TV stations... 552 00:39:02,875 --> 00:39:08,666 ...could say whatever they wanted and treat anyone however they wanted. 553 00:39:08,958 --> 00:39:12,333 It used to be that the state and the people existed for the monopolies. 554 00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:15,916 I think it should be the other way around. 555 00:39:16,083 --> 00:39:17,875 Or else it will all end badly. 556 00:39:18,041 --> 00:39:23,500 Boris was stubborn, too harsh sometimes. 557 00:39:23,666 --> 00:39:27,666 But it was clear that he meant business. 558 00:39:27,833 --> 00:39:31,625 Chernomyrdin, who was smart, also saw that Boris... 559 00:39:31,791 --> 00:39:34,958 ...was fighting for the state's interests. 560 00:39:35,125 --> 00:39:40,666 I remember well, it was Nemtsov who was against the sale... 561 00:39:40,833 --> 00:39:42,666 ...of the controlling stake in Gazprom. 562 00:39:42,833 --> 00:39:45,083 That was a tough fight. 563 00:39:45,416 --> 00:39:49,958 He was First Deputy PM and Minister of Energy. 564 00:39:50,333 --> 00:39:53,666 He was in charge of the most difficult sector, 565 00:39:56,458 --> 00:40:00,958 ...the biggest payer into the state budget, 566 00:40:01,125 --> 00:40:03,500 ...although less than it is today. 567 00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:11,916 Boris was such a vivid personality. He couldn't be just average. 568 00:40:12,125 --> 00:40:14,208 He always lit up a room. 569 00:40:14,416 --> 00:40:16,666 We decided to sell SvyazInvest above-board. 570 00:40:16,833 --> 00:40:18,833 The biggest telecom company. 571 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,375 The story of SvyazInvest is simply... 572 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,791 ...the most important event of the 1990s. 573 00:40:24,958 --> 00:40:30,500 One fine day Chubais woke up in a good mood. 574 00:40:30,791 --> 00:40:39,125 He decided that from that day on business would follow new rules. 575 00:40:39,333 --> 00:40:41,958 Not the ones it followed before. 576 00:40:42,166 --> 00:40:46,125 Those rules were foul, morally bankrupt, but well-established. 577 00:40:46,291 --> 00:40:52,083 They demanded that we sell the company to the group... 578 00:40:53,416 --> 00:40:57,416 ...formed by Gusinsky and headed by Telefonica. 579 00:40:58,583 --> 00:41:01,458 We thought we should sell it to the highest bidder. 580 00:41:01,625 --> 00:41:02,750 What was my position? 581 00:41:02,916 --> 00:41:07,416 There'd been certain rules of the game before the guys arrived. 582 00:41:09,541 --> 00:41:13,375 Everyone obeyed these rules, and business did its part... 583 00:41:15,708 --> 00:41:17,500 ...and followed them. 584 00:41:19,458 --> 00:41:25,708 Then they come and say: "No more rules, we start over. 585 00:41:25,875 --> 00:41:28,041 We need honest competition." 586 00:41:28,208 --> 00:41:30,875 I said to Boris and Anatoly, "What will happen... 587 00:41:31,041 --> 00:41:32,416 ...when Gusinsky loses?" 588 00:41:33,083 --> 00:41:37,958 He's been building this largely useless SvyazInvest... 589 00:41:38,208 --> 00:41:42,166 ...for three years. He put in a lot of effort. 590 00:41:42,583 --> 00:41:46,791 In a month the young reformers will be gone. 591 00:41:47,291 --> 00:41:50,833 According to agreements worked out over the course of a number of years, 592 00:41:51,791 --> 00:41:55,875 ...men who had taken big risks... 593 00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:03,375 ...had priority during privatization of large sectors of the economy. 594 00:42:03,541 --> 00:42:07,500 It's not right. I completely agree. But that was the agreement. 595 00:42:07,666 --> 00:42:10,666 Everyone agreed that rules can be changed. 596 00:42:10,916 --> 00:42:14,375 Let's get all the businessmen together. 597 00:42:14,666 --> 00:42:19,375 Yeltsin will take part if needed. If not, it will be the three of us. 598 00:42:19,541 --> 00:42:21,916 We should say, "This will be the last tender." 599 00:42:22,083 --> 00:42:26,208 Anyone who breaks the rules after this will be destroyed... 600 00:42:26,541 --> 00:42:29,500 ...by the business community. 601 00:42:29,833 --> 00:42:33,166 But I couldn't stop these two. 602 00:42:38,416 --> 00:42:41,916 Boris was the emotional leader. 603 00:42:42,083 --> 00:42:46,041 Was it the right idea? Theoretically speaking, sure. 604 00:42:47,041 --> 00:42:49,416 Was it right to start with SvyazInvest? 605 00:42:49,666 --> 00:42:52,416 Tactically-speaking, it probably wasn't the wisest choice. 606 00:42:52,583 --> 00:42:57,666 Although I think it was a just and lawful decision. 607 00:42:57,833 --> 00:43:04,541 The private owners of the largest TV companies, NTV and ORT, 608 00:43:04,708 --> 00:43:09,958 ...wanted to acquire a quarter of all the Russian telecom systems. 609 00:43:11,125 --> 00:43:15,500 Since the Cabinet decided there would be no more free privatization, 610 00:43:15,666 --> 00:43:18,125 ...and no more crony privatization - 611 00:43:18,375 --> 00:43:21,666 ...the highest bidder wins. And another company won. 612 00:43:22,083 --> 00:43:30,125 They offered more than 10 trillion rubles. 613 00:43:32,541 --> 00:43:35,666 The others lost because they bid less. 614 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,291 But since they wanted things to stay the same, 615 00:43:39,625 --> 00:43:41,666 ...they couldn't accept it. 616 00:43:41,833 --> 00:43:46,666 Yes, Potanin made a larger offer. 617 00:43:46,833 --> 00:43:52,291 Because Gusinsky couldn't persuade Spanish Telefonica... 618 00:43:52,458 --> 00:43:56,166 ...to bid higher. 619 00:43:56,791 --> 00:44:00,833 They lost fair and square. 620 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:06,416 SvyazInvest was the first fair tender. 621 00:44:06,583 --> 00:44:08,416 There was fierce competition. 622 00:44:08,583 --> 00:44:15,958 There was hysteria and scandal around it because it was the first honest deal. 623 00:44:16,791 --> 00:44:19,625 It brought a huge sum into the state budget. 624 00:44:19,791 --> 00:44:25,958 Actually, Gusinsky and Berezovsky chose SvyazInvest simply because... 625 00:44:27,041 --> 00:44:33,708 ...they wanted to see if we would roll over for them or not. 626 00:44:34,708 --> 00:44:39,750 Chubais decided... 627 00:44:40,291 --> 00:44:44,750 ...that it was our chance to show that we wouldn't. 628 00:44:45,583 --> 00:44:49,083 For Chubais and Nemtsov... 629 00:44:51,500 --> 00:44:53,666 ...it was a matter of principle. 630 00:44:56,583 --> 00:45:00,958 I don't idealize them, but there were things... 631 00:45:02,291 --> 00:45:05,125 ...that made them very different from today's rulers. 632 00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:08,750 They wouldn't... 633 00:45:10,416 --> 00:45:12,583 ...compromise over everything. 634 00:45:12,750 --> 00:45:17,833 When Berezovsky and Gusinsky became opponents of the Cabinet, 635 00:45:18,083 --> 00:45:24,541 ...their TV channels also turned against us and... 636 00:45:24,708 --> 00:45:26,166 ... the president, too - 637 00:45:26,333 --> 00:45:29,916 ... the whole executive branch. 638 00:45:30,083 --> 00:45:31,416 The atmosphere was bad. 639 00:45:31,708 --> 00:45:39,625 I think it was a tragic mistake by Chubais, our leader. 640 00:45:39,791 --> 00:45:47,125 And by Boris, who was responsible for this particular question. 641 00:45:54,375 --> 00:45:58,833 Very few people understood what was happening, 642 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,375 ...and the extent to which it harmed the country. 643 00:46:03,583 --> 00:46:07,625 If it weren't for SvyazInvest, the country would be different today. 644 00:46:07,875 --> 00:46:13,500 I took part in the information war against Chubais and Co. 645 00:46:14,375 --> 00:46:16,750 As you know, that war was won. 646 00:46:23,458 --> 00:46:26,125 It was clear to me that after this we were done for. 647 00:46:26,958 --> 00:46:29,583 BATTLE AGAINST THE OLIGARCHS AUTUMN 1997 648 00:46:29,875 --> 00:46:32,583 Strippers bared themselves in front of Nemtsov and Potanin... 649 00:46:32,750 --> 00:46:35,083 ...on a specially constructed podium over the pool. 650 00:46:35,333 --> 00:46:40,583 Our colleague has obtained footage that shows... 651 00:46:41,416 --> 00:46:44,625 ...Nemtsov frolicking with the ladies. 652 00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,000 Neither the ladies nor Nemtsov are clothed. 653 00:46:49,458 --> 00:46:54,583 If you have questions, problems, talk about them, solve them. 654 00:46:55,375 --> 00:47:00,208 Just don't sling mud at each other through the press. 655 00:47:00,375 --> 00:47:07,833 Yeltsin saw this and felt it, and he tried to reconcile everyone. 656 00:47:09,166 --> 00:47:13,208 But he didn't get anywhere. 657 00:47:13,375 --> 00:47:18,166 It was impossible to imagine closing down two TV channels. 658 00:47:18,833 --> 00:47:24,833 Before Putin finally dealt with them, Berezovsky and Gusinsky... 659 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:30,625 ...believed that the government functioned for big business. 660 00:47:31,083 --> 00:47:32,708 "Whatever we say, goes." 661 00:47:32,875 --> 00:47:37,000 When we told them that we wouldn't take orders, 662 00:47:37,166 --> 00:47:40,541 ...they told us they'd get rid of us and replace us with people who would. 663 00:47:40,708 --> 00:47:44,625 Boris started a war with them. 664 00:47:45,458 --> 00:47:48,208 So they made him a target. 665 00:47:48,625 --> 00:47:54,166 The super-professional NTV channel... 666 00:47:54,375 --> 00:47:59,500 ...turned Boris into Enemy No. 1. 667 00:48:02,958 --> 00:48:09,250 What I remember best are his white pants when he met Aliyev at the airport... 668 00:48:09,666 --> 00:48:13,416 ...and the famous failed campaign to make officials switch cars - 669 00:48:13,875 --> 00:48:16,750 ...from Mercedes to Russian Volgas. 670 00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:19,625 There was a smear campaign. 671 00:48:20,125 --> 00:48:22,833 We all know the story of the white pants. 672 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:29,250 He wore white pants and they acted like it was the end of the world. 673 00:48:29,583 --> 00:48:37,000 With the Volgas - Boris came and said, "Why do we all have Mercedes? 674 00:48:37,166 --> 00:48:41,000 Let's make everyone use Volgas." 675 00:48:41,166 --> 00:48:43,583 Of course, he was from Nizhny Novgorod. 676 00:48:43,750 --> 00:48:50,541 He wanted to give work to his local car factory and workers. 677 00:48:52,041 --> 00:48:56,041 As for Nemtsov, I don't think he has even the slightest chance... 678 00:48:56,208 --> 00:48:58,625 ...of becoming president. 679 00:49:03,916 --> 00:49:09,708 I say this after observing him... 680 00:49:09,875 --> 00:49:15,833 ...since he moved to Moscow. 681 00:49:16,041 --> 00:49:18,541 He looked a lot better from afar. 682 00:49:19,250 --> 00:49:25,333 He is not ready, at least not yet, for the responsibilities that... 683 00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:31,791 ...the president of a huge country has. 684 00:49:31,958 --> 00:49:36,125 The campaign against him ran on the channels controlled... 685 00:49:36,416 --> 00:49:39,875 ...by Berezovsky and Gusinsky. 686 00:49:40,208 --> 00:49:42,458 It was impossible to make things up about Boris. 687 00:49:42,625 --> 00:49:45,291 And yet, every day they slung mud at him. 688 00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:52,333 They said he was ineffective, that he harmed this or that, 689 00:49:53,666 --> 00:49:57,750 ...and that all the useless young reformers should be fired immediately. 690 00:49:58,166 --> 00:50:03,000 Yeltsin's feelings towards the Cabinet soured. 691 00:50:03,166 --> 00:50:09,750 He was aggravated that he was running out of options... 692 00:50:09,916 --> 00:50:15,708 ...on how to defend the men he had hired and vouched for. 693 00:50:15,875 --> 00:50:24,000 Once Yeltsin told me, "I am tired of defending you all." 694 00:50:25,958 --> 00:50:31,125 I said, "You don't have to defend me. I'm a grown man. 695 00:50:31,916 --> 00:50:36,708 If you think you need to sacrifice something, then don't. " 696 00:50:37,750 --> 00:50:41,458 Dad did everything he could in that situation. 697 00:50:41,708 --> 00:50:43,958 For him, 698 00:50:45,250 --> 00:50:50,791 ...the freedom of the press was very important. He fought for it. 699 00:50:50,958 --> 00:50:53,375 He thought it was one of the achievements... 700 00:50:53,541 --> 00:50:55,916 ...of Russia's young democracy. 701 00:50:56,083 --> 00:50:59,791 Are you worried about the increase in attacks in the press... 702 00:50:59,958 --> 00:51:02,083 ...on First Deputy PM Nemtsov? 703 00:51:03,041 --> 00:51:05,333 I am a little worried, 704 00:51:07,708 --> 00:51:12,166 ...but I now know where it's coming from. 705 00:51:14,208 --> 00:51:18,916 I can't say I'm not worried. They were my protégés. 706 00:51:21,333 --> 00:51:26,500 But now we've made a deal. There will be no more pressure. 707 00:51:26,791 --> 00:51:29,791 It was a huge story at the time. 708 00:51:29,958 --> 00:51:35,083 Nemtsov and Chubais went to Yelstin... 709 00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:38,125 ...and persuaded him... 710 00:51:38,541 --> 00:51:45,541 ....that Boris Berezovsky, a businessman and a citizen of Israel, 711 00:51:47,375 --> 00:51:49,916 ... essentially headed the Security Council. 712 00:51:50,083 --> 00:51:51,875 It was outrageous. 713 00:51:52,666 --> 00:51:55,541 What killed my chance to be the next president... 714 00:51:55,708 --> 00:51:59,708 ...was my firm decision to remove Berezovsky from his position. 715 00:52:00,583 --> 00:52:05,833 Yeltsin had a choice: either me or Berezovsky. 716 00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,333 "I won't work with him." 717 00:52:10,333 --> 00:52:12,708 He said, "Don't give me an ultimatum. 718 00:52:12,875 --> 00:52:15,250 Where is the decision on Berezovsky?" 719 00:52:15,416 --> 00:52:17,583 I handed it to him. 720 00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:22,291 He took a pen and paper, he crossed out the word "Decree." 721 00:52:22,875 --> 00:52:26,583 My hair stood on end. I said, "What are you doing?" 722 00:52:27,333 --> 00:52:30,416 He said, "Why should I fire Berezovsky by decree?'" 723 00:52:32,333 --> 00:52:33,666 "What do you mean - why?" 724 00:52:33,833 --> 00:52:36,083 "Who the hell is he to get a presidential decree? 725 00:52:36,250 --> 00:52:38,750 I'll write a directive to fire him, is that okay?'" 726 00:52:38,916 --> 00:52:41,333 And he starts writing: "Directive." 727 00:52:42,125 --> 00:52:46,166 And signs it. It was quite comical. 728 00:52:46,333 --> 00:52:48,625 When I took this paper to Chernomyrdin, 729 00:52:48,791 --> 00:52:50,500 ...he said: "Are you nuts?" 730 00:52:50,916 --> 00:52:56,291 He threw me out. I said: "Right, I got it." 731 00:52:57,500 --> 00:53:02,041 When it reached a boiling point, 732 00:53:02,208 --> 00:53:08,708 ...he talked to me, because I knew PR. 733 00:53:09,166 --> 00:53:13,250 "We have to hold a press conference... 734 00:53:14,125 --> 00:53:17,250 ...to announce a battle against the oligarchs." 735 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,875 This topic is urgent. 736 00:53:21,375 --> 00:53:25,875 In a year it might be too late. 737 00:53:26,083 --> 00:53:29,000 I was astonished. 738 00:53:30,750 --> 00:53:36,208 I knew how Yeltsin won in 1996. 739 00:53:36,666 --> 00:53:42,125 He was entangled with the oligarchs. 740 00:53:42,291 --> 00:53:48,875 It was the price of his re-election. 741 00:53:49,666 --> 00:53:52,916 But that was Boris. 742 00:53:53,416 --> 00:53:54,833 I told him it was dangerous. 743 00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:00,250 He just declared economic war between the state... 744 00:54:00,416 --> 00:54:03,000 ...and the oligarchs. 745 00:54:03,166 --> 00:54:05,000 That was Boris Nemtsov. 746 00:54:06,583 --> 00:54:11,416 After that I couldn't get on TV. There was a big campaign against me... 747 00:54:11,583 --> 00:54:13,833 ... with Dorenko. 748 00:54:14,166 --> 00:54:17,666 "He did not give Gazprom to Berezovsky. He didn't give them SvyazInvest. 749 00:54:17,833 --> 00:54:22,000 He had Berezovsky fired. What a guy, right!" 750 00:54:22,166 --> 00:54:24,458 At a certain point everyone noticed... 751 00:54:24,625 --> 00:54:27,958 ...that Nemtsov's ratings stopped rising. 752 00:54:28,125 --> 00:54:31,083 They began to fall for no apparent reason. 753 00:54:31,541 --> 00:54:36,500 WHO WOULD YOU VOTE FOR IF THE ELECTION WAS THIS SUNDAY? 754 00:54:36,666 --> 00:54:42,541 Mayor Luzhkov overtook Nemtsov and is now in second place. 755 00:54:42,708 --> 00:54:47,708 I am guilty. I treated him badly. 756 00:54:47,875 --> 00:54:51,291 Later we talked about it. 757 00:54:52,708 --> 00:54:57,291 I started taking note in every show... 758 00:54:58,041 --> 00:55:01,583 ...of how much his rating fell during that week. 759 00:55:01,750 --> 00:55:09,375 I got millions of my viewers to speculate on his downfall. 760 00:55:09,583 --> 00:55:12,750 This harmed Boris immensely as a politician. 761 00:55:13,791 --> 00:55:16,666 It was evident in his ratings, 762 00:55:16,833 --> 00:55:23,000 which were shown on Kiselyov's show. 763 00:55:23,583 --> 00:55:28,750 I remember they put a red X on father's photo. 764 00:55:29,208 --> 00:55:33,666 After a month of government crisis, the career of Nemtsov... 765 00:55:33,916 --> 00:55:40,000 ....as a potential candidate for president of Russia... 766 00:55:40,250 --> 00:55:42,916 ... can be crossed off. 767 00:55:43,291 --> 00:55:48,541 He would always say, "Remember how you put a red X on me? 768 00:55:48,708 --> 00:55:50,250 That was funny." 769 00:55:50,416 --> 00:55:55,083 Someone else might have held a grudge forever. 770 00:55:55,250 --> 00:55:59,458 When this crisis arose, 771 00:56:01,375 --> 00:56:04,708 ...the elite fell apart 772 00:56:05,416 --> 00:56:09,541 ...and we understood then - and can see now - 773 00:56:09,708 --> 00:56:16,875 ...the huge role played by TV in propaganda. 774 00:56:19,958 --> 00:56:23,791 Why didn't Boris and Anatoly realize what I saw? 775 00:56:25,291 --> 00:56:26,791 I don't know. 776 00:56:27,041 --> 00:56:31,208 People have short-term goals. 777 00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:38,875 The men who did this couldn't imagine, 778 00:56:39,041 --> 00:56:43,250 ... that by winning and punishing... 779 00:56:43,833 --> 00:56:49,791 ... Chubais and Nemtsov, they just hurt themselves. 780 00:56:50,875 --> 00:56:56,250 We paid the pensions. 781 00:56:56,541 --> 00:57:02,000 We dramatically cut down theft from the state budget. 782 00:57:02,333 --> 00:57:04,750 We were able to save tens of trillions of rubles. 783 00:57:05,250 --> 00:57:08,958 And we were able to halt economic recession. 784 00:57:09,166 --> 00:57:14,958 We badly needed funds to plug the holes in the budget. 785 00:57:15,125 --> 00:57:22,166 At the very end of 1997 Chubais reported to Yeltsin... 786 00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:30,041 ...that we'd paid everything we owed in salaries. 787 00:57:30,208 --> 00:57:33,541 But it was already clear that the Asian financial crisis had begun, 788 00:57:34,250 --> 00:57:38,833 ...and that our success would be wiped out very soon. 789 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,666 Everyone knows about the president's decision to dismiss the Cabinet. 790 00:57:45,625 --> 00:57:51,916 Sergei Kiriyenko was made PM. 791 00:57:53,250 --> 00:57:57,875 It was to get the Duma... 792 00:57:58,500 --> 00:58:02,375 ...to ratify him. 793 00:58:03,083 --> 00:58:04,583 Why do I remember this? 794 00:58:04,750 --> 00:58:07,750 Because it was a difficult time for Boris. 795 00:58:13,500 --> 00:58:21,625 Kiriyenko was also from Nizhny. He headed a bank... 796 00:58:21,958 --> 00:58:24,250 ...when Nemtsov was governor. 797 00:58:25,291 --> 00:58:30,916 He was one of the people who had sat and waited outside his office. 798 00:58:31,375 --> 00:58:37,125 The president cannot disregard public opinion. 799 00:58:37,333 --> 00:58:42,208 There was pressure from the Duma and on TV. 800 00:58:42,375 --> 00:58:45,166 Yeltsin didn't watch TV, but everyone else did. 801 00:58:45,666 --> 00:58:47,750 For Yeltsin, 802 00:58:47,958 --> 00:58:55,333 Boris remained a close associate. 803 00:58:57,083 --> 00:59:01,041 And he thought of him as a candidate. 804 00:59:01,208 --> 00:59:02,583 But after... 805 00:59:03,458 --> 00:59:06,958 ...all the TV attacks... 806 00:59:08,500 --> 00:59:16,125 ...on the Cabinet and him in particular, 807 00:59:16,375 --> 00:59:19,416 ...it was clear that he had no chance... 808 00:59:19,583 --> 00:59:26,583 ...of being ratified by the Duma. So Yeltsin eventually chose Kiriyenko. 809 00:59:28,875 --> 00:59:32,208 We need to make the system work, 810 00:59:33,166 --> 00:59:36,708 ...to make it function... 811 00:59:37,208 --> 00:59:40,250 ...effectively. 812 00:59:43,083 --> 00:59:44,541 I remember asking him, 813 00:59:47,541 --> 00:59:53,291 "How do you feel now that Kiriyenko is the head of Cabinet?" 814 00:59:55,166 --> 00:59:58,458 He said, "You know, it's a temporary solution." 815 01:00:00,708 --> 01:00:02,416 But it wasn't temporary. 816 01:00:02,583 --> 01:00:05,708 Kiriyenko was a much more acceptable figure for them than Nemtsov. 817 01:00:05,875 --> 01:00:10,416 - Do you know? Have you heard? - You know already? 818 01:00:12,375 --> 01:00:19,958 They say that your previously stable position in Cabinet... 819 01:00:21,125 --> 01:00:22,708 ...is now shaky. 820 01:00:23,333 --> 01:00:26,875 They've been saying that since March 17, 1997. 821 01:00:27,708 --> 01:00:30,125 They say the same thing every day. 822 01:00:30,291 --> 01:00:33,333 It's worse. Now it's really worse. 823 01:00:33,500 --> 01:00:37,000 It's very bad, it's lousy, you're not in the Cabinet anymore. 824 01:00:37,166 --> 01:00:40,666 You don't exist anymore, you've been crossed off every list. 825 01:00:40,958 --> 01:00:46,125 At some point there was so much criticism - 826 01:00:46,750 --> 01:00:52,250 ...so much one-sided criticism, 827 01:00:53,291 --> 01:00:58,708 ...that tension in society reached the point when Dad had no choice. 828 01:00:59,916 --> 01:01:02,875 In order... 829 01:01:04,708 --> 01:01:10,000 ...to protect his own power, I think, he sacrificed Nemtsov. 830 01:01:12,916 --> 01:01:19,625 In this sense he proved to be a more rational and pragmatic... 831 01:01:20,125 --> 01:01:23,166 ...and successful politician than Nemtsov. 832 01:01:25,541 --> 01:01:33,375 The so-called reforms have brought our society to a dead-end. 833 01:01:33,666 --> 01:01:36,083 1998. Miners were banging their hard hats... 834 01:01:36,250 --> 01:01:40,333 ...right next to the White House. I went down to them. 835 01:01:40,500 --> 01:01:45,916 We talked, sometimes even drank. They demanded our resignation. 836 01:01:46,083 --> 01:01:49,250 We did not send in the riot police, although we could have. 837 01:01:49,416 --> 01:01:52,541 They paralysed road traffic, blocked the railways. 838 01:01:53,041 --> 01:01:55,625 And they were destroying the Russian economy. 839 01:01:55,791 --> 01:02:00,833 Nothing would have worked out, if we weren't in dialogue... 840 01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:04,416 ...with these men, who had suffered greatly. 841 01:02:04,833 --> 01:02:06,750 We were simply open. 842 01:02:07,166 --> 01:02:10,375 You went down into the mine. 843 01:02:11,291 --> 01:02:16,500 What are your impressions of what you saw underground? 844 01:02:16,958 --> 01:02:18,916 What kind of work is it? 845 01:02:20,083 --> 01:02:22,791 My impression was awful. 846 01:02:22,958 --> 01:02:30,083 I don't know if a manager in Moscow or a journalist... 847 01:02:31,916 --> 01:02:34,458 ...could stand it for more than a day. 848 01:02:34,625 --> 01:02:38,291 We don't want these people in power anymore! 849 01:02:38,458 --> 01:02:42,666 Then came the August default, which ended with the Cabinet's resignation. 850 01:02:43,416 --> 01:02:48,416 If they had named Jesus Christ as Russian PM in March 1998 - 851 01:02:48,625 --> 01:02:53,791 ...maybe not in August - but in September or October... 852 01:02:54,666 --> 01:02:57,750 ... even with His limitless power, 853 01:02:57,916 --> 01:03:00,375 ...the same thing would have happened. 854 01:03:00,541 --> 01:03:04,500 Boris didn't take part in the decision... 855 01:03:04,666 --> 01:03:06,250 ...on the default. 856 01:03:06,583 --> 01:03:12,500 It was a sign that he wasn't trusted. 857 01:03:13,458 --> 01:03:21,750 He was a very visible politician who would have fought the decision. 858 01:03:21,916 --> 01:03:24,875 Everyone already knew that the decision had been made. 859 01:03:25,208 --> 01:03:28,208 They would default on their obligations. 860 01:03:28,708 --> 01:03:31,625 Kiriyenko knew. 861 01:03:32,583 --> 01:03:38,166 Khodorkovsky came when he learned that this decision was about to be made, 862 01:03:38,333 --> 01:03:39,708 ...but it was too late. 863 01:03:40,916 --> 01:03:46,666 Yeltsin insisted that Primakov offer a ministerial position to Nemtsov. 864 01:03:46,833 --> 01:03:50,125 But Boris refused to work in Primakov's government. 865 01:03:50,291 --> 01:03:54,916 He realized that he needed... 866 01:03:56,041 --> 01:03:58,000 ...to work on his career. 867 01:03:58,375 --> 01:04:05,291 Otherwise, he wouldn't go far. 868 01:04:05,625 --> 01:04:07,583 He'd lost trust. 869 01:04:08,833 --> 01:04:14,375 So he started preparing to become a Duma deputy. 870 01:04:14,916 --> 01:04:18,000 I think Russia must elect a new president. 871 01:04:18,333 --> 01:04:22,500 He has to be honest, healthy, responsible. 872 01:04:22,958 --> 01:04:27,541 I'm convinced that the new president should be Vladimir Putin. 873 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,500 If certain well-known people don't undermine and restrict him, 874 01:04:31,958 --> 01:04:37,083 ...he has every chance of getting the people's vote. 875 01:04:37,250 --> 01:04:39,083 I will support him, in any case. 876 01:04:39,458 --> 01:04:43,708 The decision... 877 01:04:44,500 --> 01:04:51,125 ...to run for president... 878 01:04:53,333 --> 01:04:58,041 ...on June 4, 2000... 879 01:04:59,791 --> 01:05:01,375 ...has been made. 880 01:05:01,791 --> 01:05:08,416 I knew he was Sobchak's assistant and that he faithfully served Yelstin. 881 01:05:08,625 --> 01:05:12,333 I knew he went to Berezovsky's birthday parties. 882 01:05:12,625 --> 01:05:16,958 I recall he'd tried to dissuade me from fighting the oligarchs, 883 01:05:17,125 --> 01:05:20,916 ...in particular Gusinsky and Berezovsky, when we had the SvyazInvest auction. 884 01:05:21,208 --> 01:05:24,791 He told me they were the power and we were nobodies. 885 01:05:26,125 --> 01:05:31,625 I remember the 1991 coup, 886 01:05:33,083 --> 01:05:41,416 ...the crowds on the square in St. Petersburg, 887 01:05:42,916 --> 01:05:50,250 ...and Sobchak telling them that the USSR was about to fall apart. 888 01:05:50,416 --> 01:05:54,000 That we were democratic Russia. 889 01:05:54,541 --> 01:05:58,041 And next to him stood Putin, clearly thrilled... 890 01:05:58,500 --> 01:06:01,875 ...helping his patron foment revolution. 891 01:06:03,208 --> 01:06:06,083 And his face did not betray that this was the moment... 892 01:06:06,250 --> 01:06:10,000 ...of the greatest geopolitical catastrophe. 893 01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:23,833 He was thrilled. You can't fake that. 894 01:06:24,166 --> 01:06:25,750 I saw it with my own eyes. 895 01:06:26,166 --> 01:06:31,916 When the question of who would lead the FSB arose, 896 01:06:33,500 --> 01:06:38,041 ...Chubais actively lobbied for Putin. 897 01:06:38,458 --> 01:06:43,291 I asked him why, because I didn't know Putin. 898 01:06:43,708 --> 01:06:47,375 He said, "He's our man." 899 01:06:47,708 --> 01:06:53,625 Freedom of speech, of faith, freedom of the press, of thought, 900 01:06:54,208 --> 01:07:00,500 ...the right to private property - these basic elements of civilized society... 901 01:07:00,958 --> 01:07:03,666 ...will be protected by the state. 902 01:07:04,041 --> 01:07:07,416 The country had to choose between the old KGB man Primakov... 903 01:07:07,583 --> 01:07:09,666 ...and the new KGB man Putin. 904 01:07:10,375 --> 01:07:14,541 That was our choice in the tenth year of democracy building. 905 01:07:14,875 --> 01:07:21,208 The Duma elections of 1999 were extremely important for... 906 01:07:21,666 --> 01:07:24,833 ...Nemtsov's fate in politics. 907 01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:29,500 He returned to big politics... 908 01:07:29,666 --> 01:07:33,833 ...as one of the leaders of parliament. 909 01:07:35,875 --> 01:07:38,833 The Union of Right Forces, which he headed... 910 01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:44,750 ...with Kiriyenko and Hakamada, ran with the slogan: 911 01:07:46,208 --> 01:07:49,833 "Putin for president, Kiriyenko for the Duma." 912 01:07:50,125 --> 01:07:54,041 We went around the country, from Yaroslavl to Irkutsk. 913 01:07:57,083 --> 01:07:59,875 A giant country with fantastic possibilities. 914 01:08:00,916 --> 01:08:02,375 Wonderful young people. 915 01:08:02,541 --> 01:08:08,500 Gaidar, Nemtsov, and Sysuyev - we decided to try to form a coalition... 916 01:08:08,666 --> 01:08:10,166 ...and get into the parliament. 917 01:08:10,333 --> 01:08:16,875 Then we went to Tatyana Dyachenko, 918 01:08:17,166 --> 01:08:22,541 ...who liked the idea. 919 01:08:22,708 --> 01:08:28,916 The centre of it was Chubais, in the President's administration. 920 01:08:29,083 --> 01:08:33,208 Sysuyev coordinated everything. And there was Nemtsov. 921 01:08:33,375 --> 01:08:37,833 The two leaders were Chubais and Nemtsov. 922 01:08:38,041 --> 01:08:40,041 Our base is not just young people. 923 01:08:40,208 --> 01:08:45,666 It's independent people, and women, too, to be honest. 924 01:08:46,208 --> 01:08:47,958 And smart people. 925 01:08:49,916 --> 01:08:52,500 Boris ran a brilliant campaign. 926 01:08:55,583 --> 01:09:01,875 He had political experience. It was easy for him to talk to people, 927 01:09:02,041 --> 01:09:05,916 ...to common people. He enjoyed talking. 928 01:09:07,125 --> 01:09:11,750 After he left the Cabinet, he was even more in his element. 929 01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,375 The Third Duma was being elected when Nemtsov was Putin's ally. 930 01:09:16,625 --> 01:09:20,708 Look at me more closely. You still want me to answer? 931 01:09:21,208 --> 01:09:23,750 - Yes. - That hurts. 932 01:09:24,166 --> 01:09:27,791 If anyone thinks that our party is in the Kremlin's pocket, 933 01:09:28,208 --> 01:09:29,666 ...they are mistaken. 934 01:09:29,875 --> 01:09:34,416 If the Kremlin does something wrong, we'll oppose them. And vice versa: 935 01:09:34,583 --> 01:09:37,833 If they make wise choices, we'll support them. 936 01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:45,083 Since we believe in Yeltsin, and he decided that Putin... 937 01:09:46,458 --> 01:09:49,000 ...was effective and a good Prime Minister, 938 01:09:49,166 --> 01:09:52,375 ...then let's put Kiriyenko in the Duma and make Putin president. 939 01:09:52,833 --> 01:09:54,125 Putin as President. 940 01:09:54,291 --> 01:09:56,416 It was a project of the Union of Right Forces. 941 01:09:56,583 --> 01:09:59,708 They really wanted it, and they really worked for it. 942 01:10:00,083 --> 01:10:01,958 And in the end they got it. 943 01:10:02,291 --> 01:10:05,958 And that's where our paths diverged once and for all. 944 01:10:06,125 --> 01:10:09,333 These teenagers don't vote. 945 01:10:09,500 --> 01:10:12,500 It's OK. They don't vote now. But they'll vote in the 21st century... 946 01:10:12,666 --> 01:10:13,666 ...the right way. 947 01:10:13,833 --> 01:10:17,916 We supported the Union because we thought it was... 948 01:10:18,250 --> 01:10:25,958 ...the correct and legal form to protect the interests of business. 949 01:10:26,583 --> 01:10:31,166 By then 15-20 percent of people... 950 01:10:32,875 --> 01:10:37,375 ...knew what the market was - 951 01:10:38,166 --> 01:10:42,083 ...how important it was to make the market stronger, 952 01:10:42,958 --> 01:10:45,250 ...that without... 953 01:10:47,041 --> 01:10:52,125 ...this party the Duma would be odd. 954 01:10:52,291 --> 01:10:55,208 It would not represent a huge segment of society. 955 01:10:55,500 --> 01:10:58,708 Boris's strong point, what made him the leader of this faction, 956 01:10:58,875 --> 01:11:01,250 ...was his good relations with businesspeople. 957 01:11:01,458 --> 01:11:04,708 They know people's worth, 958 01:11:04,875 --> 01:11:10,875 ...especially the people who'd already been in power. 959 01:11:11,416 --> 01:11:16,791 I think he had a good reputation with them. 960 01:11:19,791 --> 01:11:27,166 Everyone knew that as governor he never took bribes. 961 01:11:27,583 --> 01:11:31,166 At least to my knowledge. 962 01:11:31,666 --> 01:11:34,500 The same goes for when he was the Deputy PM. 963 01:11:34,666 --> 01:11:40,541 Four months before the election our rating was 1 percent. 964 01:11:40,791 --> 01:11:45,041 The experts said we had no chance. 965 01:11:45,916 --> 01:11:52,125 We took third place... 966 01:11:53,833 --> 01:11:56,041 ...with 8.5 percent. 967 01:11:56,208 --> 01:12:00,833 More than five million people voted for us. 968 01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:05,416 We positioned ourselves as the party of the middle class - 969 01:12:05,625 --> 01:12:08,625 ...a liberal party, with a program of economic policies, 970 01:12:08,791 --> 01:12:12,958 ...but socially-oriented. This came from the regions. 971 01:12:13,125 --> 01:12:15,125 From Nemtsov. 972 01:12:15,291 --> 01:12:19,666 As a former governor, 973 01:12:20,250 --> 01:12:23,291 ...he was never a pure monetarist. 974 01:12:23,458 --> 01:12:27,375 This wasn't senseless populism, and we didn't want to lie. 975 01:12:27,541 --> 01:12:32,750 We respected people and knew that without them, 976 01:12:32,916 --> 01:12:34,541 ...Russia would not survive. 977 01:12:34,708 --> 01:12:39,083 Citizens needed to be part of the reforms and like them. 978 01:12:39,416 --> 01:12:43,000 Nemtsov thought at the time that Putin was a reformer. 979 01:12:43,666 --> 01:12:47,208 That he would continue market reforms: 980 01:12:47,375 --> 01:12:50,916 ...lowering taxes, privatization, integration with the West. 981 01:12:51,083 --> 01:12:54,708 As for the fact that he wasn't a democrat - maybe that wasn't so bad. 982 01:12:54,875 --> 01:13:00,041 Our work together when Boris was in the Duma 983 01:13:00,208 --> 01:13:03,041 ...and I was Prime Minister were key 984 01:13:03,208 --> 01:13:06,583 ...to passing any law on reforms. 985 01:13:07,166 --> 01:13:09,708 We've been in parliament since 2003. 986 01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:15,750 Before then, we passed very liberal tax laws. 987 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:20,333 We have very low taxes. Our income tax is 13 percent. 988 01:13:21,125 --> 01:13:23,291 We passed a key law on land ownership. 989 01:13:23,458 --> 01:13:30,000 Our financial decisions stabilized the ruble. 990 01:13:30,208 --> 01:13:34,375 Of course, there was opposition. But we passed these laws. 991 01:13:34,791 --> 01:13:39,083 Putin met with him very often, since he was the leader of a faction. 992 01:13:39,625 --> 01:13:44,208 He was a public figure, Yeltsin's favourite. 993 01:13:44,375 --> 01:13:49,166 Putin knew then that he had practically been made by Yeltsin, too. 994 01:13:49,333 --> 01:13:52,458 So they treated each other with respect. 995 01:13:52,625 --> 01:13:55,291 Sometimes they got angry with one another, 996 01:13:55,458 --> 01:13:57,625 ...when voting should have gone differently. 997 01:13:57,791 --> 01:14:04,083 Their relationship was more than friendly. 998 01:14:04,958 --> 01:14:08,416 Boris never held anyone at a distance. 999 01:14:09,708 --> 01:14:11,791 It was the same with Putin. 1000 01:14:12,625 --> 01:14:15,000 They were on a first-name basis. 1001 01:14:15,625 --> 01:14:20,041 They could talk about anything. 1002 01:14:20,250 --> 01:14:23,541 Nemtsov initially tried to work with Putin, 1003 01:14:23,708 --> 01:14:29,375 ...since his party had contributed to his election. 1004 01:14:29,541 --> 01:14:35,416 But their points of contact and collaboration drifted 1005 01:14:35,791 --> 01:14:39,500 ...further and further apart. 1006 01:14:40,375 --> 01:14:44,375 Nemtsov is in the peanut gallery today. 1007 01:14:44,541 --> 01:14:47,708 I'm sitting with the best journalists from NTV. 1008 01:14:47,916 --> 01:14:50,833 - And pretty women. - As always. 1009 01:14:54,416 --> 01:15:02,208 I don't like the name of your show: "Russia Without NTV." 1010 01:15:02,583 --> 01:15:04,958 And for some reason everyone is okay with it. 1011 01:15:05,125 --> 01:15:08,250 - There's a question mark there. - No, there's an exclamation mark. 1012 01:15:08,416 --> 01:15:12,291 In the spring of 2001, 1013 01:15:12,583 --> 01:15:16,750 ...it was the final stage of the fight for NTV... 1014 01:15:17,791 --> 01:15:19,791 ...and its future ownership... 1015 01:15:19,958 --> 01:15:23,041 ...whether it would remain under the ownership of Gusinsky... 1016 01:15:23,208 --> 01:15:26,125 ...or move under state control. 1017 01:15:26,291 --> 01:15:28,958 Formally it would be owned by Gazprom, but it was clear... 1018 01:15:29,125 --> 01:15:32,541 ...that behind Gazprom stood the Kremlin and Putin. 1019 01:15:32,708 --> 01:15:37,500 Nemtsov's position was two-sided. 1020 01:15:37,666 --> 01:15:42,083 He was actively involved. 1021 01:15:42,250 --> 01:15:43,708 On the one hand, 1022 01:15:43,875 --> 01:15:51,083 ...he was friends with many key players on the other side. 1023 01:15:52,166 --> 01:15:56,666 On the other hand, Boris was friendly with me, with Svetlana Sorokina, 1024 01:15:57,458 --> 01:16:02,041 ...with other journalists. 1025 01:16:03,583 --> 01:16:06,958 It's bad when journalists are friendly with politicians. 1026 01:16:07,125 --> 01:16:09,666 But Boris was an exception. 1027 01:16:09,833 --> 01:16:12,291 All the journalists were friends with him. 1028 01:16:12,458 --> 01:16:16,750 The departure of journalists, including those sitting next to me - 1029 01:16:21,916 --> 01:16:26,583 ... is that good or bad for the country? It's just awful! 1030 01:16:27,583 --> 01:16:32,083 He was torn in two. He wanted to help us. 1031 01:16:32,625 --> 01:16:36,750 There are two basic rights that our party defends. 1032 01:16:36,958 --> 01:16:42,750 We defend freedom and private property. 1033 01:16:43,291 --> 01:16:50,125 When these values collide, as was the case with NTV, 1034 01:16:50,291 --> 01:16:54,125 ...it's hard to say what's more important for us. 1035 01:16:54,291 --> 01:16:56,958 To defend property? Or freedom of speech? 1036 01:16:57,125 --> 01:16:58,833 Both are important to us. 1037 01:16:59,000 --> 01:17:04,458 Boris was very naïve. 1038 01:17:04,625 --> 01:17:12,041 How could you touch a channel that had a U.S. citizen as a director? 1039 01:17:13,208 --> 01:17:18,625 It would put relations between Moscow and Washington at risk! 1040 01:17:19,375 --> 01:17:21,333 I think you made a mistake. 1041 01:17:21,500 --> 01:17:27,583 You should have invited Boris Jordan and Alfred Koch here. 1042 01:17:27,833 --> 01:17:30,625 NTV always showed all the sides. 1043 01:17:30,791 --> 01:17:33,208 We still have time to call them. 1044 01:17:34,083 --> 01:17:37,375 But who will call whom? 1045 01:17:38,041 --> 01:17:41,708 It was not a stupid decision by the administration... 1046 01:17:41,875 --> 01:17:46,250 ...to make Jordan the director or head of crisis management. 1047 01:17:46,416 --> 01:17:48,875 He is a US citizen. 1048 01:17:49,166 --> 01:17:53,750 I can't imagine the US shouting about Russia stifling... 1049 01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:58,500 ...freedom of speech when a U.S. citizen... 1050 01:17:58,916 --> 01:18:01,541 ...is the formal or an informal head. 1051 01:18:01,708 --> 01:18:06,208 But they chewed up that U.S. citizen and spat him out. 1052 01:18:07,208 --> 01:18:13,500 And when they fired him, they used his citizenship against him. 1053 01:18:13,666 --> 01:18:17,750 What was the main lesson of the destruction of NTV? 1054 01:18:18,625 --> 01:18:20,875 It was the first case... 1055 01:18:21,125 --> 01:18:27,916 ...of how they would always, throughout society, 1056 01:18:28,083 --> 01:18:29,916 ...choose a victim. 1057 01:18:30,250 --> 01:18:33,333 And then mercilessly destroy him. 1058 01:18:33,916 --> 01:18:38,833 I have one personal story that characterizes Putin... 1059 01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:41,625 ...and explains why I went into the opposition. 1060 01:18:42,041 --> 01:18:44,000 It is the story of "Nord-Ost." 1061 01:18:44,250 --> 01:18:48,250 I was head of the Duma faction then. 1062 01:18:48,416 --> 01:18:51,333 We were there. 1063 01:18:52,708 --> 01:18:56,166 I negotiated with the terrorists, 1064 01:18:56,750 --> 01:19:01,666 ...to get them to release the hostages: 1065 01:19:01,833 --> 01:19:03,708 ...women, children, and old people first. 1066 01:19:03,875 --> 01:19:05,958 Half an hour later Yastrzhembsky called me. 1067 01:19:06,125 --> 01:19:08,000 He asked me to come and help. 1068 01:19:08,750 --> 01:19:12,583 Then Nemtsov called and asked where I was going. 1069 01:19:12,750 --> 01:19:14,083 I said, "To the HQ. 1070 01:19:14,250 --> 01:19:18,041 I'm on some list to conduct negotiations." 1071 01:19:18,208 --> 01:19:19,916 He said: "I'll be right there." 1072 01:19:21,208 --> 01:19:29,125 We agreed that for each day of truce in Chechnya they would release hostages. 1073 01:19:29,625 --> 01:19:32,291 We decided, based on this phone conversation... 1074 01:19:32,458 --> 01:19:34,875 ...that I would go in to negotiate. 1075 01:19:35,166 --> 01:19:39,083 Then Putin called and said, 1076 01:19:40,583 --> 01:19:43,875 "Anyone can negotiate but you or Luzhkov. 1077 01:19:44,166 --> 01:19:48,708 I'm the head of the state, it's a state of emergency. 1078 01:19:48,875 --> 01:19:51,208 I'm asking you. I'll explain later." 1079 01:19:54,916 --> 01:19:58,666 We have great hope that they will be released. 1080 01:19:58,833 --> 01:20:00,625 It's very important. 1081 01:20:06,375 --> 01:20:08,416 Then Chubais called and said, 1082 01:20:09,208 --> 01:20:12,708 "The boss doesn't want you to go there." 1083 01:20:17,875 --> 01:20:20,875 I said, "There are more than 900 people." 1084 01:20:21,500 --> 01:20:24,791 Then Chubais called and said the same thing: 1085 01:20:24,958 --> 01:20:27,625 "Don't go." No explanation. 1086 01:20:27,791 --> 01:20:34,166 And it was one of my worst mistakes: I agreed not to go. 1087 01:20:37,125 --> 01:20:40,000 They used some secret gas, 1088 01:20:40,958 --> 01:20:44,416 ...people feel asleep and then the special ops unit... 1089 01:20:44,666 --> 01:20:48,750 ...went in and killed the terrorists. 1090 01:20:49,416 --> 01:20:51,166 But 130 people died. 1091 01:20:54,666 --> 01:20:59,583 I asked Voloshin, the Chief of Staff, 1092 01:21:00,500 --> 01:21:06,166 ...why Putin asked the two of us to stay away? 1093 01:21:06,875 --> 01:21:10,708 The answer just killed me. 1094 01:21:12,666 --> 01:21:16,916 "Because he was afraid your ratings would go up. 1095 01:21:17,500 --> 01:21:20,750 He was watching your ratings, and they were rising." 1096 01:21:20,958 --> 01:21:23,416 Everything started to collapse after that. 1097 01:21:24,416 --> 01:21:29,416 As Duma deputies we decided to find out what happened. 1098 01:21:30,250 --> 01:21:34,541 The gas wasn't dangerous. It just put people to sleep. 1099 01:21:34,708 --> 01:21:39,458 The hostages were not poisoned. 1100 01:21:39,625 --> 01:21:44,625 But they were evacuated incorrectly. 1101 01:21:45,083 --> 01:21:47,458 They all died of asphyxiation... 1102 01:21:48,916 --> 01:21:56,500 ...during their evacuation. 1103 01:21:56,875 --> 01:22:03,833 The article on criminal negligence and an article that's rarely used - 1104 01:22:04,208 --> 01:22:09,958 ...it's on non-disclosure of information that leads to harm... 1105 01:22:10,291 --> 01:22:12,708 ...including death. 1106 01:22:12,875 --> 01:22:15,875 There was no information about the gas. 1107 01:22:16,125 --> 01:22:21,416 I told Putin: "These people could have been saved. 1108 01:22:23,458 --> 01:22:27,666 We must file a criminal case against the evacuation team. 1109 01:22:27,958 --> 01:22:30,583 And prosecute them for criminal negligence." 1110 01:22:30,750 --> 01:22:31,916 He said, "Why?" 1111 01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:36,791 I said, "So that it doesn't happen again next time." 1112 01:22:37,375 --> 01:22:39,416 And he said, "These people are already dead. 1113 01:22:39,583 --> 01:22:40,958 It won't bring them back." 1114 01:22:41,125 --> 01:22:44,875 We can't make these rulings. 1115 01:22:45,041 --> 01:22:49,666 But if they are made by the Attorney General's Office, 1116 01:22:49,833 --> 01:22:52,750 ...by the leadership, 1117 01:22:53,333 --> 01:22:57,208 ...it will save dozens of lives. 1118 01:22:58,041 --> 01:22:59,791 That's why we're doing this. 1119 01:22:59,958 --> 01:23:04,125 After meeting with the president, did you have a feeling it might happen? 1120 01:23:05,416 --> 01:23:06,500 No. 1121 01:23:08,541 --> 01:23:11,333 No, I did not. 1122 01:23:12,791 --> 01:23:17,375 There were four episodes that formed my opinion of Putin. 1123 01:23:17,541 --> 01:23:20,958 The first one was in 2000... 1124 01:23:21,708 --> 01:23:24,750 ...when the Kursk submarine went down, 1125 01:23:24,958 --> 01:23:30,208 ...the men inside were dying, and Putin was sunbathing in Sochi. 1126 01:23:30,541 --> 01:23:36,500 The second one was in 2002 - the "Nord-Ost" tragedy. 1127 01:23:37,166 --> 01:23:42,541 The third episode was Khodorkovsky. October 2003. 1128 01:23:42,791 --> 01:23:48,583 The fourth one was in 2004, when troops fired on the Beslan school... 1129 01:23:48,750 --> 01:23:52,291 ...from grenade launchers and tanks. More than 300 people died. 1130 01:23:52,458 --> 01:23:56,250 At the time of the 2003 campaign we were all at odds. 1131 01:23:57,250 --> 01:24:02,333 I told Chubais, "No more games." 1132 01:24:02,750 --> 01:24:05,416 We were hoping Vladimir Putin... 1133 01:24:05,583 --> 01:24:09,750 ...was the man who would move things forward. 1134 01:24:11,041 --> 01:24:13,875 But now it looks like it's time to join the opposition. 1135 01:24:14,041 --> 01:24:19,416 With all due respect for Putin, the way he was then. 1136 01:24:20,958 --> 01:24:25,375 He looked at me very seriously but didn't say a word in response. 1137 01:24:26,583 --> 01:24:31,458 Boris agreed that the Union of Right Forces would lose. 1138 01:24:31,625 --> 01:24:36,500 The impetus for the pace of reforms... 1139 01:24:36,666 --> 01:24:38,708 ...began to decline in 2003. 1140 01:24:39,500 --> 01:24:42,333 You could say it began with a meeting... 1141 01:24:42,500 --> 01:24:47,333 ...of big business in the Kremlin in February, 1142 01:24:48,083 --> 01:24:50,750 ...when the conflict with Khodorkovsky began. 1143 01:24:51,375 --> 01:24:56,125 We all sensed the pressure Putin began to put on the business community. 1144 01:24:56,291 --> 01:25:00,416 They began their campaign as a party that supported the administration. 1145 01:25:01,333 --> 01:25:05,583 Then a month before the end they suddenly decided to change... 1146 01:25:05,750 --> 01:25:08,625 ...all their rhetoric to criticism of Putin. 1147 01:25:09,291 --> 01:25:11,083 Everything was going fine. 1148 01:25:11,250 --> 01:25:14,375 We needed to get over the five-percent threshold. 1149 01:25:14,708 --> 01:25:18,125 We had a media program that we had already paid for. 1150 01:25:18,791 --> 01:25:23,541 We'd paid for all the materials and all the airtime. 1151 01:25:23,708 --> 01:25:25,458 Everything was lined up. 1152 01:25:25,666 --> 01:25:29,000 And then at the end of October they arrested Khodorkovsky. 1153 01:25:29,250 --> 01:25:32,000 Mr. Khodorkovsky remains in custody. 1154 01:25:32,500 --> 01:25:35,875 His lawyers lodged an appeal, a motion for release on bail, 1155 01:25:36,041 --> 01:25:40,708 ...and a list of more than 40 people to vouch for him personally, 1156 01:25:40,875 --> 01:25:43,500 ...including Nemtsov and Yavlinsky. 1157 01:25:43,666 --> 01:25:45,083 They arrested Khorodkovsky. 1158 01:25:45,250 --> 01:25:49,625 Chubais made his famous appeal to Putin: 1159 01:25:50,250 --> 01:25:53,541 The state has to tell us why they are doing it. 1160 01:25:53,708 --> 01:25:56,125 What are the grounds for it? 1161 01:25:56,291 --> 01:26:00,791 Chubais was very emotional. 1162 01:26:01,375 --> 01:26:03,458 Putin reined him in. 1163 01:26:03,625 --> 01:26:07,833 From then on we always supported Khodorkovsky. 1164 01:26:08,083 --> 01:26:15,208 This was accompanied by a split in our ideological façade. 1165 01:26:15,375 --> 01:26:17,583 Chubais continued to work for Putin. 1166 01:26:17,750 --> 01:26:20,166 Gaidar continued to work for the Cabinet. 1167 01:26:20,333 --> 01:26:22,416 Nemtsov and I were in opposition. 1168 01:26:22,583 --> 01:26:27,750 After this I got a call from Minister Lesin, 1169 01:26:28,833 --> 01:26:33,333 ...then from Ernst, Kulistikov, and Dobrodeyev. 1170 01:26:33,500 --> 01:26:35,791 They all announced that all of our plans, 1171 01:26:35,958 --> 01:26:39,625 ...all of our TV appearances, 1172 01:26:42,125 --> 01:26:44,000 ...all of the interviews we had lined up, 1173 01:26:44,166 --> 01:26:47,291 ...including our participation in a game show... 1174 01:26:47,583 --> 01:26:50,791 ...and "While Everyone's Home" with Chubais - 1175 01:26:50,958 --> 01:26:54,125 ...all of it would be cancelled. 1176 01:26:55,333 --> 01:27:00,291 They threw us off the air for a month and a half. 1177 01:27:00,458 --> 01:27:05,791 They should've had a positive program: support for business, lowering of taxes, 1178 01:27:05,958 --> 01:27:09,250 ...to form a Duma faction and criticize Putin 1179 01:27:09,416 --> 01:27:12,750 ...from that position. They did the exact opposite. 1180 01:27:12,916 --> 01:27:16,541 This campaign went into textbooks on political science... 1181 01:27:17,375 --> 01:27:20,958 ....as an example of what not to do. 1182 01:27:21,333 --> 01:27:28,750 There was a famous ad of them in a Gulfstream super jet... 1183 01:27:29,583 --> 01:27:35,833 ...sitting on white leather sofas. 1184 01:27:36,500 --> 01:27:42,708 These glamorous hipsters sat there, 1185 01:27:43,166 --> 01:27:48,041 ...while in the country it's winter, it's cold, people are living in poverty. 1186 01:27:48,208 --> 01:27:53,333 And these devils on their white sofa said things like "Vote for us." 1187 01:27:53,500 --> 01:27:57,166 Russia has millions of modern, smart, and competent people. 1188 01:27:57,500 --> 01:28:02,375 Only people like this - educated and sober, free and ambitious - 1189 01:28:02,708 --> 01:28:05,458 ...will lead Russia to success. 1190 01:28:05,625 --> 01:28:08,958 Choose your future. The Union of Right Forces. 1191 01:28:09,125 --> 01:28:14,458 They lived in this circle of young, 1192 01:28:14,958 --> 01:28:16,541 ...educated, 1193 01:28:18,291 --> 01:28:23,416 ...intellectual, modern... 1194 01:28:26,541 --> 01:28:27,583 ...people. 1195 01:28:28,083 --> 01:28:34,708 But they didn't stop to realize... 1196 01:28:35,166 --> 01:28:39,333 ...that Russia was completely different. 1197 01:28:40,125 --> 01:28:47,375 We'd love for it to be like them - educated, intellectual, European - 1198 01:28:48,000 --> 01:28:49,958 ...but it's totally different. 1199 01:28:50,208 --> 01:28:53,125 We knew that in a managed democracy... 1200 01:28:53,291 --> 01:28:56,416 ...it's hard to oppose authoritarian tendencies. 1201 01:28:56,583 --> 01:28:58,208 But it's true. 1202 01:28:58,375 --> 01:29:00,708 They think people are completely stupid. 1203 01:29:01,041 --> 01:29:04,375 Their party supported this regime. They created it - 1204 01:29:04,541 --> 01:29:08,625 ...first financially, then politically. 1205 01:29:08,875 --> 01:29:12,166 Then they elected Putin president, 1206 01:29:12,375 --> 01:29:14,791 ...and Kiriyenko was in the Duma. 1207 01:29:15,041 --> 01:29:19,500 Then the regime dumped them. 1208 01:29:19,708 --> 01:29:23,666 It slowly built its own authoritarian system. 1209 01:29:24,166 --> 01:29:28,541 I realized that they wouldn't get the votes... 1210 01:29:28,750 --> 01:29:32,375 ...because Russia lived in a different dimension. 1211 01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:35,833 These may be obvious things, but they are true all the same. 1212 01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:39,791 They didn't really understand what Russia needed. 1213 01:29:40,291 --> 01:29:44,708 I think that was the key issue for the Union of Right Forces. 1214 01:29:44,916 --> 01:29:48,333 Of course, it was hard for Boris. 1215 01:29:48,750 --> 01:29:52,708 But he had a wonderful personality. 1216 01:29:53,125 --> 01:29:58,083 He was different as a politician and as a man. 1217 01:29:58,791 --> 01:30:02,916 He would wake up a couple of days later, well-rested. 1218 01:30:03,625 --> 01:30:08,958 He would go to dinner with friends, meet another pretty girl. 1219 01:30:09,125 --> 01:30:11,416 And he felt much better. 1220 01:30:11,583 --> 01:30:17,875 In 2004-08 Russia experienced a consumer paradise. 1221 01:30:18,041 --> 01:30:19,458 Over its 1,000-year history... 1222 01:30:19,625 --> 01:30:21,750 ...the Russian people had never lived so well. 1223 01:30:22,083 --> 01:30:25,250 Hence Putin's fantastic ratings. 1224 01:30:25,416 --> 01:30:29,000 Politics became unfashionable. 1225 01:30:29,250 --> 01:30:32,916 Surkov was in charge of domestic affairs then. 1226 01:30:33,541 --> 01:30:36,583 He did a very simple thing. 1227 01:30:36,791 --> 01:30:40,916 He saw that no one was interested in politics. So he just liquidated it. 1228 01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:44,916 ORANGE REVOLUTION IN KIEV NOVEMBER-DECEMBER 2004. 1229 01:30:45,083 --> 01:30:48,208 We need a free and democratic Ukraine. 1230 01:30:48,750 --> 01:30:52,000 We need a free and democratic Russia. 1231 01:30:52,791 --> 01:30:58,375 Only together we will be prosperous and happy. 1232 01:30:58,625 --> 01:31:04,125 Today we must fight not only for your freedom, 1233 01:31:04,666 --> 01:31:06,000 ...but for ours. 1234 01:31:06,416 --> 01:31:09,583 I remember bringing Boris to Maidan. 1235 01:31:16,875 --> 01:31:19,875 We were walking to the podium and he said, 1236 01:31:20,291 --> 01:31:22,458 "Can I go out to the people?" 1237 01:31:22,625 --> 01:31:26,208 They were a few meters from the stage. 1238 01:31:26,375 --> 01:31:29,166 "Can I go?" "Sure." 1239 01:31:29,500 --> 01:31:33,791 Everyone on Maidan loved him. 1240 01:31:34,666 --> 01:31:37,500 A real politician comes to them. 1241 01:31:37,666 --> 01:31:40,416 And they can talk to him face-to-face. 1242 01:31:40,583 --> 01:31:45,458 We can show that we are two nations that can still be democratic... 1243 01:31:45,625 --> 01:31:49,625 ...and European with high living standards. 1244 01:31:49,958 --> 01:31:54,000 This appealed to the people tremendously. 1245 01:31:57,041 --> 01:32:04,166 They absolutely adored him on Maidan. 1246 01:32:04,333 --> 01:32:07,625 That was obvious. 1247 01:32:09,958 --> 01:32:12,625 He came back to Moscow a changed man. 1248 01:32:12,791 --> 01:32:15,250 He was captivated by the revolutionary spirit. 1249 01:32:15,458 --> 01:32:21,083 He'd wanted to retreat into private life, to make money. 1250 01:32:21,250 --> 01:32:24,958 Like he'd done everything he could in politics... 1251 01:32:25,125 --> 01:32:28,000 ...and now he needed to think about his family and kids. 1252 01:32:28,166 --> 01:32:32,791 This 2004 revolution changed all his plans. 1253 01:32:34,583 --> 01:32:37,541 Very few people in Russia... 1254 01:32:38,541 --> 01:32:42,666 ...are ready to risk their freedom and their well-being. 1255 01:32:42,958 --> 01:32:47,125 This is due to our tragic history. 1256 01:32:47,791 --> 01:32:53,166 I mean the Civil War, the GULAG, the repressions, communism. 1257 01:32:53,333 --> 01:32:56,916 But I don't really... 1258 01:32:58,541 --> 01:33:00,583 ...have a choice. 1259 01:33:00,875 --> 01:33:04,291 I am on a path and there's no escaping. 1260 01:33:04,458 --> 01:33:07,333 As soon as he lost everything, he was out on the street. 1261 01:33:07,500 --> 01:33:09,791 He realized there was no going back... 1262 01:33:10,166 --> 01:33:13,125 ...and decided to go into opposition. 1263 01:33:13,291 --> 01:33:20,500 He was always emotional. He moved directly, straightforwardly. 1264 01:33:20,875 --> 01:33:23,375 Plus, he held a grudge because of "Nord-Ost." 1265 01:33:23,541 --> 01:33:27,291 There were nasty rumours about him from the Kremlin. 1266 01:33:27,458 --> 01:33:30,500 He thought they came from the president. 1267 01:33:30,791 --> 01:33:33,541 And the was an element of competition underneath. 1268 01:33:33,708 --> 01:33:36,291 If Yeltsin had chosen me, 1269 01:33:37,333 --> 01:33:39,666 ...things would have be different. 1270 01:33:40,708 --> 01:33:42,916 I was his close friend. 1271 01:33:43,500 --> 01:33:46,416 At least at that time we saw each other a lot. 1272 01:33:47,000 --> 01:33:50,000 He appealed to me as his friend: 1273 01:33:50,375 --> 01:33:53,250 "I've lost my job, and you have a huge business. 1274 01:33:53,416 --> 01:33:56,833 Can't you hire me so I could make a living somehow?" 1275 01:33:57,000 --> 01:33:58,833 I was very blunt with him. 1276 01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:01,375 I told him that he had to change, 1277 01:34:01,541 --> 01:34:04,125 ...and I didn't believe that for a second. 1278 01:34:04,291 --> 01:34:06,875 Knowing him, it was out of the question. 1279 01:34:07,041 --> 01:34:12,666 He was destined to go to Maidan and to make his speeches. 1280 01:34:12,833 --> 01:34:14,875 That was clear from the beginning. 1281 01:34:15,291 --> 01:34:19,250 I said, "Boris, you are going to continue with politics. 1282 01:34:19,416 --> 01:34:22,583 I know you. You won't be able to keep your mouth shut. 1283 01:34:23,416 --> 01:34:25,750 You are going to speak your mind. 1284 01:34:25,916 --> 01:34:29,083 But this will harm my work. I can't afford it." 1285 01:34:29,250 --> 01:34:33,958 Boris always took things well. 1286 01:34:35,541 --> 01:34:39,166 He knew I was right. 1287 01:34:39,875 --> 01:34:43,958 So he didn't take offence. 1288 01:34:44,375 --> 01:34:47,458 We spent the night together in a cell. 1289 01:34:47,625 --> 01:34:49,083 We talked all night long. 1290 01:34:49,250 --> 01:34:53,375 This must have been my longest talk with him. 1291 01:34:53,583 --> 01:34:59,250 I saw him as a man of the '90s - a good man, 1292 01:34:59,416 --> 01:35:04,833 ...and yet someone who brings political trouble. 1293 01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:07,375 He felt bad about it all. 1294 01:35:09,166 --> 01:35:12,458 The only '90s politician... 1295 01:35:12,625 --> 01:35:17,000 ...who really was an honest man. 1296 01:35:17,208 --> 01:35:20,041 He was relatively young. 1297 01:35:20,916 --> 01:35:25,708 But all these negative things had stuck to him. 1298 01:35:25,875 --> 01:35:29,208 I said, "Boris, it's a problem, You're a good man. 1299 01:35:29,375 --> 01:35:33,166 You understand everything. But the '90s are a liability." 1300 01:35:34,541 --> 01:35:37,166 How he met someone wearing white pants... 1301 01:35:37,666 --> 01:35:40,458 ...the privatization that he didn't take part in, 1302 01:35:40,625 --> 01:35:43,625 ...but everyone accused him of it. 1303 01:35:43,791 --> 01:35:48,375 He was blamed for all the horrors and problems of Yeltsin's team. 1304 01:35:48,541 --> 01:35:51,791 He was the symbol of it all. 1305 01:35:51,958 --> 01:35:55,000 I said, "Let's do something about it." 1306 01:35:55,166 --> 01:36:00,375 But he already knew that it was impossible. 1307 01:36:00,541 --> 01:36:01,958 Each era has its leaders. 1308 01:36:02,125 --> 01:36:08,416 He understood when we didn't put him in our top three. 1309 01:36:08,583 --> 01:36:11,333 Because he would have been a target. 1310 01:36:13,416 --> 01:36:14,666 He was fine with it. 1311 01:36:14,833 --> 01:36:17,416 For instance, when I ran for mayor of Moscow, 1312 01:36:17,583 --> 01:36:20,250 ...I didn't want him to come and support me... 1313 01:36:20,416 --> 01:36:23,625 ...because it would bring more trouble than good. 1314 01:36:23,791 --> 01:36:29,625 I knew that if I kept being friends with him like before, 1315 01:36:29,791 --> 01:36:36,416 ...before his strident opposition to the authorities, 1316 01:36:42,250 --> 01:36:47,250 ...no one would believe that I wasn't giving him... 1317 01:36:47,416 --> 01:36:50,791 ...financial support, 1318 01:36:51,208 --> 01:36:56,250 ...or involved in politics with him. 1319 01:36:57,500 --> 01:37:02,958 Our continuing friendship would be toxic for my business, 1320 01:37:03,125 --> 01:37:07,666 ...for my partners and colleagues. 1321 01:37:07,958 --> 01:37:10,291 I told him that. He knew it, too. 1322 01:37:10,541 --> 01:37:13,208 He knew I couldn't risk it. 1323 01:37:14,125 --> 01:37:18,458 Unfortunately, this led to spending much less time... 1324 01:37:19,083 --> 01:37:21,916 ...than I could with a man who was smart, 1325 01:37:22,833 --> 01:37:28,125 ...decent, honest, interesting, and a friend. 1326 01:37:28,875 --> 01:37:32,750 I had no idea that he had so little time left. 1327 01:37:33,583 --> 01:37:36,750 I bitterly regret this, of course. 1328 01:37:37,208 --> 01:37:41,500 It is one of my greatest disappointments. 1329 01:37:42,250 --> 01:37:45,041 I sometimes told him: "Boris, you are like an Eskimo. 1330 01:37:45,208 --> 01:37:48,541 You say what you see. You are not a politician. 1331 01:37:48,958 --> 01:37:53,041 A politician says what others want to hear. 1332 01:37:53,208 --> 01:37:56,000 And in a way, that's also a form of professionalism. 1333 01:37:56,166 --> 01:37:57,958 What you are is a human rights activist. 1334 01:37:58,125 --> 01:38:02,291 Politics is the art of compromise. 1335 01:38:02,458 --> 01:38:04,208 And you are uncompromising. 1336 01:38:04,375 --> 01:38:06,791 If you are convinced of something, 1337 01:38:06,958 --> 01:38:08,625 ...you won't make a deal. 1338 01:38:09,125 --> 01:38:12,583 Everyone loved Boris. Because he was free. 1339 01:38:12,750 --> 01:38:16,041 He wasn't afraid of anything or anyone. It was very appealing. 1340 01:38:16,208 --> 01:38:19,250 I was initially sceptical about Nemtsov. 1341 01:38:19,416 --> 01:38:20,916 I'd been in the Yabloko party, 1342 01:38:21,083 --> 01:38:24,333 ...which had a conflict with the Union of Right Forces. 1343 01:38:24,666 --> 01:38:26,708 Then I started having problems in the party. 1344 01:38:26,875 --> 01:38:28,916 And Nemtsov amazed me by suddenly calling me. 1345 01:38:30,833 --> 01:38:34,041 "This is Nemtsov. What's going on? 1346 01:38:34,208 --> 01:38:37,208 Are they really going to expel you? How can I help you?" 1347 01:38:37,375 --> 01:38:40,875 I was so amazed that a man I don't know at all... 1348 01:38:41,208 --> 01:38:44,166 ...called to ask how I was doing and offer his help. 1349 01:38:44,833 --> 01:38:47,666 He treated everyone the same way. 1350 01:38:47,833 --> 01:38:52,000 He could pick up the phone and call an activist in Krasnodar, 1351 01:38:52,208 --> 01:38:55,333 ...or in the Komi Republic and say, "How are you doing? 1352 01:38:55,500 --> 01:38:58,291 I read on Twitter that there's pressure on you. 1353 01:38:58,458 --> 01:38:59,625 How can I help?" 1354 01:38:59,791 --> 01:39:02,708 He told me all the time, with a sort of regret, 1355 01:39:02,875 --> 01:39:05,458 "I know I will never be president. 1356 01:39:05,625 --> 01:39:09,708 I won't run, so I'm ready to help. 1357 01:39:10,541 --> 01:39:12,833 ARREST DECEMBER 31, 2010 1358 01:39:13,000 --> 01:39:16,416 Happy New Year without Putin! 1359 01:39:19,083 --> 01:39:25,750 In 2010 on December 31 there was a protest rally... 1360 01:39:25,916 --> 01:39:28,458 ...in support of Article 31 of the Constitution... 1361 01:39:28,625 --> 01:39:31,458 ...on the freedom of assembly. 1362 01:39:37,625 --> 01:39:39,791 And we got divorced that day, too. 1363 01:39:46,666 --> 01:39:49,208 We all went: me, Zhanna, and Boris. 1364 01:39:49,500 --> 01:39:54,291 I usually celebrate New Year's... 1365 01:39:54,583 --> 01:39:59,125 ...with salads, champagne and my family... 1366 01:39:59,291 --> 01:40:00,750 They had a permit to demonstrate. 1367 01:40:01,541 --> 01:40:03,291 It's almost midnight. 1368 01:40:03,458 --> 01:40:07,625 But a year ago an important event occurred. 1369 01:40:08,416 --> 01:40:16,291 Lyudmila Alekseyeva went out on this same square a year ago. 1370 01:40:17,875 --> 01:40:22,916 A huge group of special ops officers, like the ones around us now, 1371 01:40:25,541 --> 01:40:28,916 ...twisted her arms and pushed into a police bus. 1372 01:40:29,083 --> 01:40:30,750 She was 82 years old. 1373 01:40:30,916 --> 01:40:33,666 She had her arms twisted and she was pushed into a police bus. 1374 01:40:33,833 --> 01:40:36,166 After that, we had to come here. 1375 01:40:36,541 --> 01:40:42,333 I am grateful to all of you for coming here. It's a serious deed. 1376 01:40:42,625 --> 01:40:44,916 You didn't come here for yourself. 1377 01:40:45,583 --> 01:40:48,708 You came so that our country could be free. 1378 01:40:49,041 --> 01:40:54,333 We insisted on our right to freedom of assembly. 1379 01:40:54,500 --> 01:40:57,541 The authorities wanted to restrict that right. 1380 01:40:57,833 --> 01:41:01,791 Russia deserves better, my friends. 1381 01:41:02,500 --> 01:41:07,916 Why do we want to gather here, on New Year's Eve? 1382 01:41:08,666 --> 01:41:14,333 Because we think that the crooked, despicable authorities... 1383 01:41:14,750 --> 01:41:19,333 ...must be thrown the hell out, cast into the dustbin of history. 1384 01:41:19,583 --> 01:41:25,458 The rally was authorized. There were no violations. 1385 01:41:25,708 --> 01:41:28,208 We demand the cessation of censorship. 1386 01:41:28,666 --> 01:41:31,750 We demand fair elections. 1387 01:41:31,916 --> 01:41:36,166 We want both the left and the right, 1388 01:41:36,333 --> 01:41:37,833 ...both patriots and centrists, 1389 01:41:38,041 --> 01:41:42,375 ...everyone representing the citizens of our vast country... 1390 01:41:42,583 --> 01:41:46,625 ...could convene in the Duma and solve our common problems. 1391 01:41:46,791 --> 01:41:54,958 Boris and I left the stage and walked together towards Tverskaya. 1392 01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:59,458 This is my oldest daughter. She's here for the first time. 1393 01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:04,041 Suddenly, out of nowhere, 1394 01:42:05,375 --> 01:42:10,291 ...there's a crowd of special police units. 1395 01:42:11,166 --> 01:42:14,000 Move away from the road. 1396 01:42:14,625 --> 01:42:17,666 I was just shocked. I shouted, "Boris!" 1397 01:42:22,750 --> 01:42:26,250 They just surrounded Boris. 1398 01:42:38,750 --> 01:42:42,208 We were suddenly grabbed and brutally pushed... 1399 01:42:43,083 --> 01:42:45,708 ...into police buses and driven to different precincts. 1400 01:42:59,916 --> 01:43:04,125 He spent the New Year in a concrete cell. 1401 01:43:04,291 --> 01:43:08,083 Right away, for some reason, he was isolated from the others. 1402 01:43:08,250 --> 01:43:11,916 They put him in a windowless cell. 1403 01:43:14,416 --> 01:43:17,541 I got bed linen, but he didn't. 1404 01:43:17,916 --> 01:43:19,833 He really was mistreated. 1405 01:43:20,166 --> 01:43:23,541 We met in a couple of days, 1406 01:43:23,708 --> 01:43:27,375 ...because the court was closed for the holidays. 1407 01:43:27,833 --> 01:43:30,041 After two days he didn't look well. 1408 01:43:30,208 --> 01:43:31,708 He was pale, clearly tired. 1409 01:43:31,875 --> 01:43:35,000 His back ached because he had slept on the concrete floor... 1410 01:43:35,166 --> 01:43:36,666 ...for two nights. 1411 01:43:38,250 --> 01:43:39,458 I can walk myself. 1412 01:43:39,625 --> 01:43:45,916 They put a guy with TB in the bed next to him. 1413 01:43:46,250 --> 01:43:52,000 He coughed right next to him for half of his detention period. 1414 01:43:52,541 --> 01:43:58,791 Many were surprised that you were not given a chair... 1415 01:43:58,958 --> 01:44:04,708 ...for the five-hour hearing with Judge Borovkova. 1416 01:44:04,875 --> 01:44:06,875 Did that really happen? They just didn't give you a chair? 1417 01:44:07,041 --> 01:44:08,166 And you stood for five hours? 1418 01:44:08,333 --> 01:44:11,541 I spent 40 hours in that cell. 1419 01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:14,708 I couldn't sleep properly in there to be honest. 1420 01:44:14,875 --> 01:44:20,750 I hoped that when I got to court, I'd at least be able to take a load off. 1421 01:44:21,375 --> 01:44:22,583 I was wrong. 1422 01:44:22,750 --> 01:44:25,791 At the very beginning my attorney said the defendant needed a chair. 1423 01:44:25,958 --> 01:44:27,708 She said there were too many people. 1424 01:44:27,875 --> 01:44:29,708 "There will be no chair. Let him stand." 1425 01:44:29,875 --> 01:44:35,125 I visited his detention cell a day or two later. 1426 01:44:35,291 --> 01:44:39,750 I brought some newspapers, fruit, 1427 01:44:40,291 --> 01:44:44,750 ...and thick woollen socks. 1428 01:44:45,458 --> 01:44:49,375 He was very grateful because it was cold. 1429 01:44:50,541 --> 01:44:55,625 Our cell - or pad, as they call it, was a room... 1430 01:44:55,791 --> 01:44:59,541 ...about 40 square meters. 1431 01:44:59,708 --> 01:45:01,916 There were between three and 15 people in it. 1432 01:45:02,625 --> 01:45:06,250 You could smoke, so it was filled with bluish smoke. 1433 01:45:06,416 --> 01:45:11,291 There's no mirror, and the toilet is right there. 1434 01:45:11,833 --> 01:45:15,666 I said to the guy in charge, "How about some dignity? 1435 01:45:15,833 --> 01:45:19,375 Let's put a partition there so that everyone doesn't have to... 1436 01:45:19,541 --> 01:45:22,916 ...witness the scatological processes." 1437 01:45:23,083 --> 01:45:26,416 It was a rare occasion. 1438 01:45:27,583 --> 01:45:29,875 After his arrest... 1439 01:45:32,041 --> 01:45:36,166 ...he shared his impressions with me... 1440 01:45:36,791 --> 01:45:38,791 ...and he was genuinely sad... 1441 01:45:39,791 --> 01:45:41,291 ...about what he'd gone through. 1442 01:45:41,541 --> 01:45:45,041 He could take a punch. He didn't want to go to jail, of course. 1443 01:45:45,208 --> 01:45:50,750 He thought he'd die there. He had health issues. 1444 01:45:51,166 --> 01:45:54,875 He always said, "If they put me away for five or ten years, 1445 01:45:55,083 --> 01:45:59,666 ...I won't survive like Khodorkovsky. They'll kill me in there." 1446 01:45:59,875 --> 01:46:02,333 It was a sensation. 1447 01:46:02,500 --> 01:46:05,250 He was a former Deputy Prime Minister. 1448 01:46:05,750 --> 01:46:08,708 He's nearly been the president's successor, after all. 1449 01:46:08,875 --> 01:46:11,541 As he liked to say, "I was Putin's boss." 1450 01:46:12,041 --> 01:46:13,916 There was a funny story. 1451 01:46:14,083 --> 01:46:18,916 They were the two Cabinet members who were always late for meetings. 1452 01:46:19,083 --> 01:46:22,333 Putin is famous for being late. Nemtsov was, too. 1453 01:46:22,500 --> 01:46:26,375 They would always try to outrun each other in the corridor, 1454 01:46:26,541 --> 01:46:31,458 ...because Yeltsin would scold whoever was the last to arrive. 1455 01:46:31,666 --> 01:46:36,333 He told us how he'd helped Putin get an apartment for FSB officers. 1456 01:46:36,500 --> 01:46:38,250 They had a good relationship. 1457 01:46:38,541 --> 01:46:41,708 They lived near each another. 1458 01:46:42,000 --> 01:46:43,750 As he explained, 1459 01:46:44,166 --> 01:46:47,041 ...he was a man from the system. So they understood him. 1460 01:46:47,208 --> 01:46:48,750 They don't like him. 1461 01:46:48,916 --> 01:46:54,125 But within their system of values, there are untouchables. 1462 01:46:54,291 --> 01:46:58,000 A former minister is someone you can't touch. 1463 01:46:58,166 --> 01:47:01,166 You can throw a toilet on his car. 1464 01:47:01,333 --> 01:47:07,875 You can discredit him and say bad things. 1465 01:47:08,208 --> 01:47:10,291 But you can't jail him. 1466 01:47:10,791 --> 01:47:13,791 You can't hit him, and you can't kill him. 1467 01:47:13,958 --> 01:47:20,125 I met him when he was released. There were journalists there, too. 1468 01:47:21,083 --> 01:47:26,791 They wanted to scare me, they wanted to put pressure on me. 1469 01:47:27,083 --> 01:47:30,958 You know, being put into a cell with stone walls... 1470 01:47:31,375 --> 01:47:33,958 ...on New Year's Eve - it's a scare tactic. 1471 01:47:34,166 --> 01:47:38,750 But they didn't scare me. They didn't break me. 1472 01:47:39,041 --> 01:47:42,208 I feel feisty. 1473 01:47:42,375 --> 01:47:44,291 We went to a café. 1474 01:47:44,666 --> 01:47:49,000 He didn't feel well. We wanted to have dinner. 1475 01:47:49,583 --> 01:47:51,541 When we were leaving... 1476 01:47:51,708 --> 01:47:55,375 ...some young Nashi activists tried to catch him with a butterfly net. 1477 01:47:55,541 --> 01:47:57,166 It was their favourite trick. 1478 01:47:57,750 --> 01:48:00,750 But they couldn't Father's reactions were too quick. 1479 01:48:00,916 --> 01:48:05,500 I wanted to run after them, but it was too icy and they got away. 1480 01:48:06,291 --> 01:48:08,875 In Putin's Russia, laws don't work. 1481 01:48:09,708 --> 01:48:12,875 To be in the opposition means to put your life, your freedom... 1482 01:48:13,041 --> 01:48:16,041 ...the lives of your loved ones at risk. 1483 01:48:16,958 --> 01:48:22,916 Of course, I don't want to die. But there is no risk of being killed. 1484 01:48:23,375 --> 01:48:29,250 I was sure, though, that I'd face... 1485 01:48:29,791 --> 01:48:34,291 ...criminal or political prosecution. And I was right. 1486 01:48:35,125 --> 01:48:40,833 It was the live call-in show that Putin likes so much. 1487 01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:43,958 He said, "I have a question here. 1488 01:48:44,125 --> 01:48:48,333 What do you think about Nemtsov, Ryzhkov, and that gang? 1489 01:48:48,500 --> 01:48:52,500 What do Nemtsov, Ryzhkov, Milov and their gang want?" 1490 01:48:52,666 --> 01:48:54,666 Money and power, what else? 1491 01:48:55,125 --> 01:48:58,833 He said, "They were racketeers in the 1990s. 1492 01:48:59,041 --> 01:49:01,416 They stole billions with Berezovsky... 1493 01:49:01,583 --> 01:49:03,833 ...and now they're trying to get back in power." 1494 01:49:04,875 --> 01:49:08,375 They were racketeers in the 1990s. 1495 01:49:10,666 --> 01:49:14,250 They stole billions... 1496 01:49:19,875 --> 01:49:25,625 ...together with those Berezovskys and the others in prison now. 1497 01:49:26,333 --> 01:49:32,666 Their illegal money supply was cut off. Now they've spent their money. 1498 01:49:33,166 --> 01:49:37,750 They want to come back and fill their pockets again. 1499 01:49:38,291 --> 01:49:41,708 He named three people: me, Nemtsov, and Milov. 1500 01:49:42,666 --> 01:49:49,708 Milov couldn't have stolen money - he was still in school. 1501 01:49:49,875 --> 01:49:56,166 Nemtsov and I also didn't steal money with Berezovsky. 1502 01:49:56,416 --> 01:50:01,500 Nemtsov was against Berezovsky and the privatization of SvyazInvest. 1503 01:50:01,750 --> 01:50:05,250 Berezovsky was one of the ones who smeared Nemtsov. 1504 01:50:05,458 --> 01:50:10,750 To accuse Nemtsov of racketeering with Berezovsky was ludicrous. 1505 01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:13,708 But if we let them, 1506 01:50:13,875 --> 01:50:17,333 ...they wouldn't be satisfied with billions. 1507 01:50:17,500 --> 01:50:19,291 They'd sell off all of Russia. 1508 01:50:19,541 --> 01:50:21,666 We filed a lawsuit against Putin... 1509 01:50:21,833 --> 01:50:26,208 ...to defend the honour and dignity of Ryzhkov, Nemtsov, and Milov. 1510 01:50:26,375 --> 01:50:28,500 Do you know how his lawyer got him off the hook? 1511 01:50:28,666 --> 01:50:32,541 She said that when Putin said our names, 1512 01:50:32,791 --> 01:50:37,333 ...he didn't mean real people. 1513 01:50:37,541 --> 01:50:41,416 He used them as lower-case common nouns - the ryzhkovs and nemtsovs. 1514 01:50:41,750 --> 01:50:45,458 Since they were symbolic, there was no slander. 1515 01:50:45,625 --> 01:50:48,291 And the judge said, "OK, if there isn't, there isn't." 1516 01:50:49,083 --> 01:50:54,958 If you got Putin alone somewhere quiet... 1517 01:50:56,666 --> 01:50:59,500 ...and poured him a drink and asked why he did it... 1518 01:50:59,666 --> 01:51:02,541 ...he'd say, "Oh, stop it. Of course I know... 1519 01:51:02,708 --> 01:51:05,958 ...that Boris is an honest man who has never stolen a thing. 1520 01:51:06,125 --> 01:51:10,250 I know this better than anyone." 1521 01:51:11,458 --> 01:51:12,708 What should we do? 1522 01:51:12,875 --> 01:51:16,875 First - tell people the truth of who they are. 1523 01:51:17,250 --> 01:51:19,750 We did this in samizdat, Russian self-publishing: 1524 01:51:19,916 --> 01:51:22,833 "The Putin Report. The Results." We published a million copies. 1525 01:51:23,000 --> 01:51:24,583 They confiscated the books. 1526 01:51:24,750 --> 01:51:27,250 They checked it for extremism many times. 1527 01:51:27,416 --> 01:51:28,708 They didn't find anything. 1528 01:51:28,875 --> 01:51:32,083 The second thing. Putin's Russia is not a place for talk. 1529 01:51:32,250 --> 01:51:36,625 The only effective politics is done on the street. 1530 01:51:37,208 --> 01:51:40,291 No one has said it better than Pushkin: 1531 01:51:43,625 --> 01:51:47,750 "While freedom's flame within us lives, While we by honour's voice are guided, 1532 01:51:48,416 --> 01:51:51,958 To Russia, comrade, let us give Our spirits whole and undivided. 1533 01:51:52,166 --> 01:51:54,125 Dear friend, have faith: the wakeful skies 1534 01:51:54,291 --> 01:51:55,666 Presage a dawn of wonder - Russia 1535 01:51:55,833 --> 01:51:59,333 Shall from her age-old sleep arise, (though everyone believes the opposite) 1536 01:51:59,500 --> 01:52:03,083 And despotism impatient crushing, Upon its ruins our names incise!" 1537 01:52:04,083 --> 01:52:06,166 Because political life didn't exist, 1538 01:52:06,958 --> 01:52:12,583 ...he had to join the picket line... 1539 01:52:14,000 --> 01:52:16,041 ...with slogans and banners... 1540 01:52:16,500 --> 01:52:18,916 ...including rallies without permits. 1541 01:52:19,208 --> 01:52:24,375 We have lots of footage of Nemtsov being detained by the police - 1542 01:52:25,166 --> 01:52:29,000 ...loading him on paddy wagons. 1543 01:52:30,791 --> 01:52:34,750 Boris being released after 15 days behind bars. 1544 01:52:35,416 --> 01:52:39,208 Boris being attacked by Nashi youth. 1545 01:52:40,083 --> 01:52:44,458 Someone throwing a toilet onto his car. 1546 01:52:45,125 --> 01:52:49,875 Someone spraying ammonia in his face. 1547 01:52:50,458 --> 01:52:52,000 And all that. 1548 01:52:53,041 --> 01:52:57,333 When you're involved in protest, you don't see revolutionary romanticism. 1549 01:52:57,708 --> 01:52:59,958 You see broken lives. 1550 01:53:00,125 --> 01:53:03,958 You see your comrades killed or put in jail. 1551 01:53:04,208 --> 01:53:06,458 It became clear... 1552 01:53:09,250 --> 01:53:13,583 ...that he'd be the dissident, like usual. 1553 01:53:13,791 --> 01:53:15,541 You have to bring three shirts. 1554 01:53:15,708 --> 01:53:18,000 The first one will be hit by rotten eggs, 1555 01:53:18,166 --> 01:53:19,333 ...the second by tomatoes. 1556 01:53:19,500 --> 01:53:22,250 You make it to the press conference in the third shirt. 1557 01:53:25,500 --> 01:53:26,833 Say that you love Putin. 1558 01:53:27,000 --> 01:53:28,458 I love Putin, and I love Medvedev. 1559 01:53:28,625 --> 01:53:30,416 Now tell me how much you love them for. 1560 01:53:30,583 --> 01:53:34,333 They are hooligans: you catch them, and the cops let them go. 1561 01:53:34,500 --> 01:53:38,625 You see the police organizing them. It's maddening. 1562 01:53:38,791 --> 01:53:42,875 They always try to catch you off balance. 1563 01:53:43,041 --> 01:53:46,208 These petty hooligans don't dare get near to you. 1564 01:53:46,416 --> 01:53:49,166 You just want to hit them in the face. 1565 01:53:49,333 --> 01:53:53,083 But if you do, they've file a complaint against you. 1566 01:53:53,250 --> 01:53:58,708 Boris was a man who loved classic male gestures. 1567 01:53:58,875 --> 01:54:02,041 If a guy started picking on him, he wanted to hit him. 1568 01:54:02,458 --> 01:54:05,083 Move along, you're blocking the way. 1569 01:54:07,041 --> 01:54:09,250 - Are we in the way? - Yes. 1570 01:54:09,458 --> 01:54:11,791 - No one's walking here. - Yet. 1571 01:54:11,958 --> 01:54:16,291 Well, organize a demonstration. So that we're actually in the way. 1572 01:54:16,458 --> 01:54:18,166 You're not in the way. Yet. 1573 01:54:18,333 --> 01:54:20,208 That's why I asked you to move along. 1574 01:54:20,375 --> 01:54:21,750 We're leaving now. Don't worry. 1575 01:54:21,916 --> 01:54:23,625 - When exactly is "now"? - In a minute. 1576 01:54:23,791 --> 01:54:26,875 From the inside, you only see the mudslinging and dirty tricks. 1577 01:54:27,041 --> 01:54:32,958 That's why it's so hard to find the strength to keep fighting. 1578 01:54:33,125 --> 01:54:38,166 He was sure he wouldn't be killed. 100 percent sure. I asked why? 1579 01:54:38,333 --> 01:54:42,125 "Because I was in the highest echelons of power. 1580 01:54:42,375 --> 01:54:49,333 After Stalin, or, rather, after Beria's execution in 1953, 1581 01:54:49,583 --> 01:54:53,000 ...no one from this level was killed in Russia." 1582 01:54:55,208 --> 01:54:58,458 You can't see anything from up front. 1583 01:54:58,666 --> 01:55:00,791 I can't see where this crowd ends. 1584 01:55:01,208 --> 01:55:06,750 Can you imagine how many of us there are? 1585 01:55:07,333 --> 01:55:10,125 They blocked our website. 1586 01:55:10,291 --> 01:55:12,958 They hacked our LiveJournal accounts. 1587 01:55:13,125 --> 01:55:16,250 They deleted information about the rally. 1588 01:55:16,416 --> 01:55:19,750 And still, despite the rain, the repression, 1589 01:55:19,916 --> 01:55:22,083 ...and no one being let in... 1590 01:55:22,250 --> 01:55:25,833 ...there are so many of us here. 1591 01:55:26,041 --> 01:55:30,041 This means we'll win! 1592 01:55:30,625 --> 01:55:33,166 On December 5, 2011, 1593 01:55:34,125 --> 01:55:36,458 ...something extraordinary happened. 1594 01:55:37,416 --> 01:55:40,833 First there was a rally at Chistiye Prudy. 1595 01:55:42,500 --> 01:55:46,041 It was organized by the people who'd held rallies there for seven years... 1596 01:55:46,208 --> 01:55:48,291 ...with an average attendance of 300 people. 1597 01:55:48,458 --> 01:55:51,833 We knew them all by sight. 1598 01:55:52,000 --> 01:55:55,458 The same people went to our rallies and to Limonov's rallies. 1599 01:55:55,625 --> 01:55:58,875 We were just a bunch of freaks, 1600 01:55:59,041 --> 01:56:00,791 ...doing God knows what. 1601 01:56:01,000 --> 01:56:02,833 Then suddenly 7,000 people showed up. 1602 01:56:03,208 --> 01:56:08,333 There are hundreds of brave people here... 1603 01:56:08,500 --> 01:56:13,083 ....observers at the so-called elections. 1604 01:56:13,583 --> 01:56:19,583 We have to do all we can so that criminal action is taken... 1605 01:56:19,875 --> 01:56:25,958 ...against the scum who stole our vote. 1606 01:56:26,208 --> 01:56:30,166 It was a rally of desperation. 1607 01:56:31,333 --> 01:56:34,708 We asked people to vote for any party but United Russia. 1608 01:56:35,333 --> 01:56:37,750 Many people heard our plea. 1609 01:56:38,083 --> 01:56:43,708 As a result, in Moscow the authorities had to falsify... 1610 01:56:43,875 --> 01:56:47,583 ...the vote for United Russia to win. They didn't have enough votes. 1611 01:56:47,791 --> 01:56:51,791 You could see the violations in hundreds of videos online. 1612 01:56:54,708 --> 01:56:59,666 After the rally there was an unauthorized march. 1613 01:57:00,000 --> 01:57:02,208 Several hundred people were arrested. 1614 01:57:02,375 --> 01:57:06,500 About 100 of them, me included, got from 10 to 15 days in jail. 1615 01:57:06,666 --> 01:57:09,375 This was the start of the protest movement in Moscow. 1616 01:57:09,666 --> 01:57:14,916 As a reaction to all this, about a hundred thousand people... 1617 01:57:15,083 --> 01:57:17,333 ...took to the streets. 1618 01:57:17,541 --> 01:57:21,666 It was the movement of 2011 and 2012... 1619 01:57:21,875 --> 01:57:28,041 ...that we recall with nostalgia. 1620 01:57:28,541 --> 01:57:32,625 Suddenly we saw tens of thousands sign up on social media... 1621 01:57:32,791 --> 01:57:35,916 ...to come to the event on Bolotnaya Square. 1622 01:57:36,083 --> 01:57:37,916 Then the authorities panicked. 1623 01:57:38,166 --> 01:57:39,500 Nemtsov came up with the idea... 1624 01:57:39,666 --> 01:57:41,625 ...of the Organizing Committee for Protests. 1625 01:57:42,083 --> 01:57:47,166 He invited me, Navalny, Parkhomenko, 1626 01:57:47,750 --> 01:57:53,333 ...Boris Akunin, Oleg Kashin, and others. 1627 01:57:53,583 --> 01:57:59,791 Boris put this coalition together. 1628 01:58:00,333 --> 01:58:02,583 Good afternoon, Moscow! 1629 01:58:04,166 --> 01:58:06,833 Free and proud Moscow. 1630 01:58:07,041 --> 01:58:11,500 All these people from Parnas, Yabloko... 1631 01:58:11,708 --> 01:58:18,375 ...communists, Union of Right Forces, hipsters, the intelligentsia... 1632 01:58:18,541 --> 01:58:22,166 ...all said: "Let's go, let's demand." 1633 01:58:22,916 --> 01:58:25,708 At first there were about 55,000, 1634 01:58:25,958 --> 01:58:29,041 ...but on December 20 we had a huge turn-out on Sakharov Square. 1635 01:58:29,208 --> 01:58:31,541 120,000 came - a great success. 1636 01:58:32,041 --> 01:58:35,250 The rally was right in claiming that the elections had been stolen. 1637 01:58:35,416 --> 01:58:38,125 Russia ended up where it is because of those elected deputies, 1638 01:58:38,291 --> 01:58:39,791 ...we got isolationism. 1639 01:58:40,250 --> 01:58:44,125 They don't stand up to anything. They just vote "yes." 1640 01:58:45,416 --> 01:58:50,708 The stolen votes led to today's crisis. 1641 01:58:50,958 --> 01:58:53,375 So the people on Bolotnaya were absolutely right. 1642 01:58:59,791 --> 01:59:01,250 Nemstov... 1643 01:59:02,333 --> 01:59:07,791 ...took active part in organizing that march... 1644 01:59:08,875 --> 01:59:12,833 ...which ended in a crack-down and the Bolotnaya court case. 1645 01:59:13,250 --> 01:59:16,500 He was very afraid that it would end in tragedy. 1646 01:59:16,666 --> 01:59:21,875 He always tried to prevent bloodshed. 1647 01:59:35,125 --> 01:59:39,458 We were marching to the rally on Bolotnaya Square... 1648 01:59:39,625 --> 01:59:42,875 ...to demand annulment of the results and a new election. 1649 01:59:43,458 --> 01:59:46,458 At some point we came up against a line of police. 1650 01:59:46,625 --> 01:59:50,333 They blocked the entry to the place where the rally was. 1651 01:59:51,708 --> 01:59:54,291 So we sat down on the pavement. 1652 01:59:55,125 --> 01:59:56,791 We called it a sit-in. 1653 01:59:56,958 --> 02:00:00,791 We showed that we meant peace. 1654 02:00:01,125 --> 02:00:08,416 Let's all sit down and show that we are peaceful citizens. 1655 02:00:08,583 --> 02:00:12,625 We don't want bloodshed. We want truth. 1656 02:00:13,416 --> 02:00:17,791 The police units moved in, starting a horrible stampede. 1657 02:00:17,958 --> 02:00:21,625 People screaming, falling, fainting. 1658 02:00:21,791 --> 02:00:25,666 It was a miracle that no one died. 1659 02:00:26,375 --> 02:00:28,583 Then they began to hit people. 1660 02:00:28,833 --> 02:00:30,708 Nemtsov tried to organize people. 1661 02:00:30,875 --> 02:00:32,958 He got to the stage and started speaking. 1662 02:00:34,458 --> 02:00:37,833 They dragged him off the stage. 1663 02:00:42,500 --> 02:00:44,875 Russia has never seen anything like this! 1664 02:01:00,250 --> 02:01:02,750 We'll get through it! Victory! 1665 02:01:06,166 --> 02:01:13,083 I hope that in three or four years the intelligentsia... 1666 02:01:13,250 --> 02:01:15,708 ...will get out of politics... 1667 02:01:15,916 --> 02:01:21,041 ...so they can all be left alone to work. 1668 02:01:21,208 --> 02:01:24,083 We won't stay in politics for long. 1669 02:01:24,250 --> 02:01:26,541 I mean the intelligentsia. 1670 02:01:27,583 --> 02:01:34,625 Tomorrow we'll dock official cars for representatives. 1671 02:01:34,916 --> 02:01:37,625 Do you know about this? We'll abolish official cars. 1672 02:01:37,791 --> 02:01:43,041 - I support you fully. - Thank you, dear! 1673 02:01:43,250 --> 02:01:46,458 In Russia if you were once a Deputy Prime Minister.. 1674 02:01:46,625 --> 02:01:49,750 ... you're a Deputy Prime Minister until you die. 1675 02:01:50,125 --> 02:01:52,125 Not Nemtsov. 1676 02:01:52,291 --> 02:01:55,875 He walked the city, convincing old ladies to vote for him. 1677 02:01:56,333 --> 02:01:58,833 It you vote for Parnas, 1678 02:01:59,291 --> 02:02:06,041 I'll live here and work in the local Duma. 1679 02:02:06,208 --> 02:02:09,500 He told me wanted to run in Yaroslavl. 1680 02:02:09,958 --> 02:02:12,083 The situation in the city was very difficult. 1681 02:02:12,250 --> 02:02:14,291 We had long discussions, long arguments, 1682 02:02:14,458 --> 02:02:16,458 ...and decided to take part in that campaign. 1683 02:02:16,625 --> 02:02:19,333 I laughed at his campaign. 1684 02:02:19,500 --> 02:02:24,875 You with your privatization, your white pants, your Moscow face... 1685 02:02:25,041 --> 02:02:28,250 ...with newspaper stories about your 15 wives... 1686 02:02:28,416 --> 02:02:33,375 ...you won't get anywhere in the provinces. 1687 02:02:33,541 --> 02:02:35,708 But he did. 1688 02:02:35,875 --> 02:02:38,208 This was really impressive. 1689 02:02:38,583 --> 02:02:42,500 After he won the elections, he bought an apartment in Yaroslavl. 1690 02:02:43,250 --> 02:02:46,250 He was active in the local Duma. 1691 02:02:46,416 --> 02:02:49,916 He got some good results, even though he was really in minority. 1692 02:02:50,083 --> 02:02:51,625 One against all. 1693 02:02:52,291 --> 02:02:54,708 Many local bureaucrats told him privately, 1694 02:02:54,875 --> 02:02:58,583 "We can't do what you're doing, but you're doing great." 1695 02:02:59,500 --> 02:03:03,750 This is great. Super-gadget. 1696 02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:06,083 How did you do it? 1697 02:03:07,583 --> 02:03:12,750 We're walking... 1698 02:03:12,916 --> 02:03:16,166 ...along the boulevards. 1699 02:03:16,500 --> 02:03:23,291 Boris is the only politician to be reincarnated. 1700 02:03:23,458 --> 02:03:27,791 No other politician from the 1990s... 1701 02:03:27,958 --> 02:03:30,375 ...whom everyone hated could do it. 1702 02:03:30,541 --> 02:03:33,500 But he was in some other political dimension. 1703 02:03:33,666 --> 02:03:37,875 He still had terrible ratings. A lot of people still didn't like him. 1704 02:03:38,041 --> 02:03:40,916 But he was in politics. 1705 02:03:41,083 --> 02:03:44,458 He ran for a local office. He had influence. 1706 02:03:44,625 --> 02:03:49,708 Tonight Boris Nemtsov is with us. 1707 02:03:49,875 --> 02:03:52,958 We're talking about the scheduled anti-crisis march. 1708 02:03:53,125 --> 02:03:55,708 Who came up with the name? 1709 02:03:56,333 --> 02:03:58,666 And why is the state flag your symbol? 1710 02:03:58,833 --> 02:04:04,041 It's the first time the opposition is flying the state flag. 1711 02:04:04,875 --> 02:04:10,250 For me personally, this flag is the symbol of freedom. 1712 02:04:10,416 --> 02:04:16,250 I defended the White House in 1991 under the tricolor flag. 1713 02:04:16,625 --> 02:04:20,458 When we defeated the coup, 1714 02:04:21,625 --> 02:04:24,791 ...we raised this flag over the White House. 1715 02:04:24,958 --> 02:04:29,166 This flag is dear to me. Important. And it is a symbol of freedom. 1716 02:04:29,875 --> 02:04:33,625 After Nemtsov's murder, leaving Russia is unthinkable. 1717 02:04:33,791 --> 02:04:36,416 It would be a betrayal of his memory. 1718 02:04:36,625 --> 02:04:42,666 Whatever happens, whatever danger, leaving isn't an option. 1719 02:04:42,916 --> 02:04:44,541 Because Nemtsov stayed. 1720 02:04:44,708 --> 02:04:47,291 And he paid for what he believed in with his life. 1721 02:04:48,125 --> 02:04:50,958 I think that... 1722 02:04:55,500 --> 02:04:56,708 Boris... 1723 02:05:01,333 --> 02:05:03,250 ...would have wanted to die this way. 1724 02:05:05,291 --> 02:05:09,500 I think I get him. 1725 02:05:10,625 --> 02:05:13,208 He was recklessly courageous. 1726 02:05:16,750 --> 02:05:18,583 In front of many people. 1727 02:05:22,333 --> 02:05:27,125 On the bridge leading to the Kremlin. 1728 02:05:29,250 --> 02:05:30,416 Shot by... 1729 02:05:34,958 --> 02:05:37,000 ...a real enemy. 1730 02:05:38,208 --> 02:05:43,250 Not by accident. It's a good death. 1731 02:05:51,416 --> 02:05:53,958 People who fought for freedom, 1732 02:05:54,125 --> 02:05:57,708 ...the Decembrists and their successors, and now us... 1733 02:05:58,166 --> 02:06:01,083 ...have played a crucial role in the life of Russia. 1734 02:06:01,250 --> 02:06:02,916 But they were always a minority. 1735 02:06:03,083 --> 02:06:06,541 They moved the country forward often at the expense of their own life. 1736 02:06:06,708 --> 02:06:10,958 Like Alexander II, like Stolypin, who was killed. 1737 02:06:11,125 --> 02:06:15,041 Like Gorbachev and Yeltsin, who were not killed physically... 1738 02:06:15,208 --> 02:06:16,833 ...but were morally destroyed. 1739 02:06:17,000 --> 02:06:18,625 But I'll be back. 1740 02:06:18,958 --> 02:06:20,750 You needn't worry. 1741 02:06:20,916 --> 02:06:22,333 100 percent. 1742 02:06:26,500 --> 02:06:30,000 DIRECTED BY VERA KRICHEVSKAYA 1743 02:06:31,541 --> 02:06:35,916 WRITTEN BY MIKHAIL FISHMAN, VERA KRICHEVSKAYA 1744 02:06:48,666 --> 02:06:54,208 MUSIC BY ANDREY MAKAREVICH 1745 02:09:56,791 --> 02:10:01,125 PRODUCED BY YEVGENY GINDILIS, 1746 02:10:01,541 --> 02:10:06,000 VERA KRICHEVSKAYA, MIKHAIL FISHMAN 136164

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