All language subtitles for ID.Special.Report.The.Long.Island.Serial.Killer.2023.1080p.WEB.h264-DUHSCOVERY

[Raymond Tierney]
These young women went missing

between July of 2007
and September of 2010.

For the next 13 years,
their cases went unsolved...

until today.

[Nancy Grace] Eleven bodies
found hidden,

placed like trophies
on a shelf

in a thick underbrush,

along a remote yet pristine
stretch of sand

on Long Island.

As cops scramble for answers,

11 families
wait for justice.

[Melissa Cann] Did my sister
cry? Did she beg?

Did she say, "Please, please,
like, I have kids"?

[Nancy] The suspect,
a once-respected
big-city architect,

husband and father of two,

hiding in plain sight

just six miles from
the so-called dumping ground.

He would always be out there
no matter when you walked by.

It's almost like
he was keeping lookout.

[Nancy] Do family members
have clues on the killer?

The killer that ripped
their moms, their daughters,

their sisters
away from them forever.

I hear a man's voice
and I just, like...

My whole body, like,
shut down, like I was just...

in shock.

[Nancy] Tonight,
the bone-chilling question -

is Rex Heuermann responsible
for even more dead bodies?

As bodies
continue to be identified

and crime scenes
painstakingly processed

with a fine-tooth comb,

an ID Special Report on
the Long Island Serial Killer.

I'm Nancy Grace and I wanna
thank you for being with us.

Tonight, prime suspect
Rex Heuermann

in his late 20s
when the murders

of a string of beautiful
young women begins.

With us,
the Suffolk County top cop

with the very latest
from inside the investigation.

Victims' families reeling.

And tonight, a woman who meets
and sits face-to-face

with the suspect,
and unlike the rest,

lives to tell the tale.

At this hour,
this guy Rex Heuermann

getting three hots and a cot,

and the Suffolk County Jail
insisting he's innocent.

Also with us,
the Suffolk County Sheriff.

He tells us
what life in jail is like

for the accused serial killer.

How could his own wife
not know

she's sleeping with
an accused serial killer

that preys on hookers?

Was the family basement
actually a torture chamber,

and she had no idea?

Well, we'll find out.
Her lawyer joins us.

Welcome to ID's Special Report

again with the latest.

Rex Heuermann
is due back in court

on August 15,

one week after
a judge grants prosecutors

their demand for a DNA swab

to compare
the single hair found

at the crime scene.

In last days,
police reveal the identity

of Fire Island Jane Doe.

She's 34-year-old
Karen Vergata.

Her legs, found in
Davis Park on Fire Island,

1996, 15 years later.

Her skull discovered
a stone's throw

from the remains

of the original
Gilgo Four victims.

She is one
of the 11 victims found

in the Gilgo Beach area.

But is there a second killer

actually stalking
the same turf?

Simultaneously,
the search for victims

goes nationwide,

honing in on Las Vegas,

where Heuermann keeps
a luxury timeshare.

Three cases
with seemingly the same MO

including Victoria Camara,

a teen mother found murdered
and dumped in the desert

off a busy highway.

As the search expands,

we connect with
the lead investigator

in the Gilgo Beach
murder case,

Suffolk County
Police Commissioner,

the top cop, Rodney Harrison,
for the latest.

Commissioner, you were
at the forefront

when the latest victim

to be identified
became public.

And I'm referring to,
of course, Karen Vergata.

So, I guess
the theory would be

a second killer comes in

and deposits remains

right along that line
of evidence?

So I'm very curious about how
that could be two killers.

At that timeframe,
Rex was about 32 years old.

I can't speak on
his activities,

or was he involved with
sex workers,

or was he related to
Karen Vergata at this time.

Do you believe there is
more than one serial killer

that has stalked
the Long Island area?

That's why
we're still investigating,

and time will tell.

Um, is there happening to be
individual people that

took the lives of these bodies
that were discovered,

um, as well?

Or is it another serial killer
out there?

Uh, I don't have any answers
for you right now.

But I will say this.

We're gonna keep
the taskforce in place.

Uh, we have
some incredible investigators

assigned to this team.

I'm also
very intrigued, commissioner,

with the vehicle
that has been recovered

in South Carolina.

The Chevy Avalanche.

What can you tell me
about that vehicle?

[Rodney] So, Amber Costello
had a roommate,

and this roommate
informed us that

one of
Amber Costello's clients

was driving a green Avalanche.

Uh, this individual was also

described as
a very large person.

Even used the word "older."

Uh, 6'6", 270 to 300 pounds.

A lot of fluffy hair.

Are you having South Carolina
and even Vegas authorities

help you coordinate
in your investigation

since Heuermann had

that luxury timeshare
in Vegas?

And he would go there without
his wife and children.

And then you've got
the South Carolina compound

owned by his brother.

So, right now we're working
with the authorities

in South Carolina
as well as in Las Vegas.

I do know one thing.

Uh, I'm very confident
that Rex Heuermann

was definitely involved
in three of the deaths

of the Gilgo Four,

and we're just waiting
for some lab work

to see if we can attach him
to the fourth one.

[Nancy] And the fourth one,

you're talking about
Maureen Brainard-Barnes?

[Rodney] Maureen
Brainard-Barnes, yes, ma'am.

So you're waiting on lab work

for some type of connection.

Are you talking about
potential DNA?

Yes, ma'am.

[Nancy] I gotta tell you
something, commissioner.

When I saw that still

that was taken
from surveillance video

in a phone store...

This man still is using
his burner phones

and buying more minutes.

That tells me
you may have arrested him

in the nick of time.

You know, Nancy,
he lived a double life.

I'm sure he did his best
in regards to

keeping it away from his...
his, uh, his family.

And the best way to do that
is to use a burner phone.

I just wanna get
one more question in

about the search
of Heuermann's home.

Do you believe
there is any way

that his basement vault -

I know it's big enough
for a person to go in there -

was used in connection with

these kidnaps and murders?
Any way?

Uh, the one thing
I will say is,

regarding the vault,

his house, or other locations

being the place where
he committed these deaths,

we recovered
multiple, multiple items,

and now it's time
to start going through them

and see what we can do
to attach Rex Heuermann

to the Gilgo Four

or any other bodies
that were discovered.

Commissioner, thank you
so much for being with us.

-Nancy, thanks so much
for having me.
-Yes, sir.

With us tonight,
decorated police detective,

now private investigator,
Derrick Levasseur.

Central Falls, Rhode Island.

Also with us, four-time
Emmy-award-winning journalist

Mara S. Campo.

Let's get right down to it

and analyze what we know now.

If somebody said, "Hey, Nancy,

I think
you're a serial killer.

Can I have DNA
to prove you innocent?"

you think I'd say,
"Oh, H-E-L-L N-O"?

No, I would give my DNA.

We've had to have
a judge order him

literally to open his mouth,

so they could take
a tiny little Q-tip

and get a DNA swab,

so they can try
and match it to the DNA

they found on a pizza crust

they saw Heuermann throw away.

His defense right now
could be,

"How do you know
that is my DNA on that pizza?

You saw me throw the box away,

but did you see me bite
that particular slice?"

This is how we get
in the door, though.

As an investigator, we wanna
find the abandoned property.

Once it's out
on the public area,

we as detectives can take it.

That's our preliminary DNA.

But once we get him
to custody,

we need to get a buccal swab
from them directly,

because that rules out
the possibility

that it could be
somebody else.

[Nancy] Thank you, Derrick.
Now to Erin Colton,

anchor reporter
for News 12 Long Island.

One of
the very first journalists

on the scene when police began
discovering bodies

on Gilgo Beach.

And Josh Zeman,

documentarian whose
2016 series The Killing Season

profiled Gilgo victims
and the hunt for a killer.

First of all to you, Erin,

you ended up,
really out of a twist of fate,

you happened to be
working solo that day,

which never happened.

And suddenly you find out

bodies are turning up
on Gilgo.

Did you ever imagine
that today,

you would be sitting here
with the knowledge

that Rex Heuermann is refusing

to give a DNA sample?

That's the question.
I mean, obviously,

they had to go after it.

It's a very, very routine
thing to do.

And then enter the car.
The car, in my opinion,

was one of the key pieces

that got
the Gilgo taskforce to...

-Rex's Chevy Avalanche.
-Absolutely.

They found that rare car.
It was a first-year model.

And they found that.
It was registered to Rex,

who happened to live
in the same area

of all those pings
of Massapequa Park.

[Nancy] Oh, it's just
overwhelming evidence.

Now, let me
ask you this, Josh.

So, what? The serial killers
got together over dinner

and went, "Hey, you dump
on this end of Gilgo,

and I will dump on that end"?

No. No.

I mean, there is no
coincidence in criminal law.

So how can two serial killers,

or according to
some sleuths online,

three or four serial killers

all dump on the same stretch
of beach?

I believe we are dealing with
one serial murderer.

I believe that basically
Rex was basically dealing with

these initial six victims

who were all dismembered.

His MO, he was dismembering
those victims originally.

And then he changed.
Something changed.

And I believe what changed
was the Internet.

He started to find
these sex workers,

these victims
via the Internet.

And that's what led to
the MO change.

Well, we learned
something tonight

from the commissioner,
who revealed

that Maureen Brainard-Barnes
did have DNA on her,

and that is the hold-up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I mean, apparently.

That's what I was told
as well.

That we're waiting for
better forensics.

But that will happen.

He will be charged
with the fourth.

Uh, Maureen Brainard-Barnes
who was the first woman taken.

We're gonna be back with more

on the Long Island
Serial Killer.

Police believe at least one
of the murders occurred

in the suspect's home.

So how could the family
not know what was going on?

We talk to the lawyer
for Rex Heuermann's wife.

Plus, what is Heuermann's life
like behind bars?

The Suffolk County Sheriff
joins us

and updates us
on his investigation into

other escorts
who may have encountered

the alleged killer.

But first, we hear from
the families of the victims.

Plus, imagine realizing
you had a dinner date

with an alleged serial killer.

A woman who could have been
a victim herself

joins us next.

Welcome back. I'm Nancy Grace.

This is ID's Special Report,

the Long Island Serial Killer.

If Rex Heuermann is
the Long Island Serial Killer,

he is not the first to target
women living on the edge.

Sex workers.

But these ladies
are also mothers,

daughters, sisters.

Mara S. Campo with more.

[police radio chatter]

[dogs barking]

[Mara]
Maureen Brainard-Barnes.

Melissa Barthelemy.

Megan Waterman.

And Amber Lynn Costello.

Now forever linked
as apparent victims

of suspect Rex Heuermann.

And if he is the one
behind the murders,

Rex apparently had a type.

Maureen, Melissa and Amber
were petite,

all 4'11" or under,

and each weighing
around 100 pounds.

At 5'5",
Megan was the tallest.

But even then,
Heuermann would have towered

over all of them.

At 6'6" and 275 pounds,

he was more than a foot taller

and almost triple
his alleged victims' weight.

Police say the women
were all strangled.

[Melissa] You have
so many questions.

Why? How?

Why my sister? How did you...

Why did you pick her?

How did you pick her?
How did you get her?

You know, did my sister cry?

Did she beg? You know...

Did she say, "Please, please,
like, I have kids"?

[Mara] Maureen Brainard-Barnes
was 25

when she disappeared
in July 2007.

She had two children,

and was supposed to be
heading home to them

from a series of dates
in New York City

when she told her friend
she was going to see a client.

It was 27-year-old
Amber Costello's roommate

who gave the tip to police

about the green
Chevy Avalanche

he saw Amber in
the day she disappeared.

Her aunt says the man knew
something was wrong

as soon as
she walked out the door.

[Bonnie Sasse] He was
really worried,

because when she went
out the door,

she didn't take her purse
or her cell phone.

He was like,
"You're forgetting 'em,"

and she said,
"I'm not gonna need them."

[Mara] Megan Waterman
was just 22 years old

when she was last seen

in the lobby
of a Long Island hotel

in June 2010.

[Allie Pertel]
It's bittersweet,

because I know
the details of her death,

so I don't necessarily like

having that closure,
but it is such a relief

that we do know who it was,

and that it will
come to an end eventually.

[Mara] Melissa Barthelemy
may have been small,

but her family says
she was a spitfire.

She disappeared in July 2009

at the age of 24.

Afterward,
her then-teenage sister Amanda

received a series
of terrifying phone calls

from the killer.

I hear a man's voice
and I just, like...

My whole body shut down,
like I was just...

in shock.

She was hysterical,
she was crying.

You know,
she tried to keep calm,

tried to keep him
on the phone long enough.

The final call
was that he killed her.

[Amanda] He was
just very calm.

I ask myself all the time
why he called me.

[man] Why do you think?

[Amanda] Just to torture
someone else.

'Cause I think he enjoys it.

With us now, Nikkie Brass,

a hair and makeup artist,
former escort,

who met up with accused killer
Rex Heuermann.

Thank you for being with us.

Are you sure it's Heuermann
that you met up with?

Okay, so it's really hard,
you know...

to have it be a different
6'6", 300-pound guy

from Massapequa who's
an architect in Manhattan.

-So that's a yes.
-It's pretty specific.

I am... I am 5,000% sure that

that's who sat across from me.

What happened?

He did not want
to initially meet in public

or outside of Nassau County.

So I had said, "You need
to meet me at a restaurant

in public in an area
that I'm familiar with,

and if I feel comfortable,
then I'll come back

to your house
with you afterwards."

And that was
what the plan was.

This is a very big man.

You know what I mean?
Like, he was huge.

And his handshake was like...

You know when there's that
firm for confidence?

It was too firm.

Almost trying to be
very domineering

and show you that he was
much bigger than you were.

And then
when we were coming out,

I had told him I had
a friend waiting for me there,

because I was terrified.

This was not your first trick.

No, I had never...

So what about him scared you?

I had never in my life
been scared on a date.

I had never in my life
been fearful.

I have never worried.

It was the way he talked about
the Gilgo Beach murders.

-At the steam room?
-Yes.

Did you go inside
the steam room?

Yeah, we were sitting down.

-You sat down.
-Yeah.

And he starts talking about
the Gilgo murders?

[Nikkie] He was like, "Well,
do you like true crime?"

It was when he said,

"Have you heard of
the Gilgo Beach murders?"

that he got very, very weird.

-Those were his words?
-Yes.

-"Have you heard of
the Gilgo Beach murders?"
-Yes.

-Yeah.
-Okay, then what happened?

[Nikkie] I said, "Well, yeah,
I'm from Long Island."

Especially being in the line
of work I was in,

you know,
you knew what was going on.

And then he started
talking about it.

He started saying, like,

weird hypotheticals,

and, "What do you
think happened?"

Oh, please tell me
a weird hypothetical.

Um, so one thing
he said to me was,

"How do you think
they got rid of the bodies

without going noticed?"

And I said, "I don't know."

And he goes,
"Oh, I live over there.

It's very dark and desolate."

And then he says,

"Well, what if they treaded
through the marsh?"

And I said,
"Well, what do you mean?"

And he said,
"Camouflage burlap sacks.

What if they went
through the marsh

late at night?"

And like,
when he spoke about it,

he sat up straight, or he had
a smirk on his face

when he talked about it.

It was like as if somebody

who was recalling it
from his memory

and from being there.

How did you break it to him

that you were not
going with him?

Uh, at the end,
he asked, he said,

"So, are you coming home
with me?"

So I said to him, "It's late.

I don't want
to have to drive there

and then drive home
late at night

and figure out my way home."
And he was like,

"Absolutely not
would you take your car.

Why would you take your car?
That's stupid.

That's a long distance
to waste gas.

You just leave your car here
and get in mine."

And he was insistent
on me getting in his car.

And not only that,
he never mentioned plans

of bringing me back to my car.

[Nancy] Nikkie,
thank you so much

for telling your story.

When we come back,
an exclusive report

on murders happening
all the way across the country

that are so similar
it's shocking.

Plus, breaking news
on how life has changed

for the accused serial killer.

A very special guest,

Suffolk County Sheriff,
Errold Toulon Jr.

who oversees the jail
housing Heuermann.

The sheriff has also conducted

his own investigation
into sex workers

who encountered Heuermann.

And with us, Tara Rosenblum,

senior investigative reporter,
News 12 New York,

on Heuermann's
possible links to crimes

in Las Vegas.

Sheriff, it's a real honor
to speak with you.

Thank you for being with us.

I understood that
one of the first things

Heuermann said was,
"Hey, is this on TV?"

How is he behaving
behind bars?

You know,
we've seen an evolution,

uh, since he's come
into our custody.

You know,
the first couple of days,

uh, because he was
on suicide watch,

he had no, uh, sheets.

He was in a protective vest.

He had no books.

Uh, he seemed
very disinterested.

And every time I visited
that housing area,

he was actually
laying on the bed,

uh, either on his back
or on his side.

And now, you know,
he's making phone calls.

He's participating
in recreation by himself.

Uh, he has had
religious services.

So, sheriff, you're telling me

he's no longer
on suicide watch?

Uh, he is not
on suicide watch.

Our mental health staff
took him off suicide watch.

Sheriff, you mentioned that

Rex is currently
in a cell by himself.

Is he allowed to make
phone calls, and if so,

are those calls
being recorded?

The phone calls
are all outgoing.

He does not receive
any incoming phone calls.

And yes, those phone calls
are recorded.

We do not, uh,
monitor the phone calls

with him and his spouse

or him and his attorney.

Sheriff, does he have
any pictures up in his cell?

What is he reading?
What is he doing?

You said he found recreation
on his own.

Is he not mingling with
the other inmates at all?

So, to answer
your last question,

no, he is not mingling
with any inmates

in our custody.
One reason is because

we don't want anyone to, uh,

build up
their own street credibility

by assaulting him and saying

that they did something.

So we decided
to make sure that

when he does move
outside of his housing area,

the entire jail is shut down

and he's escorted
by correction officers

and supervisors
to wherever he has to go.

Uh, as far as
reading material,

he has been reading
two fictional books.

Uh, I don't recall the title.

There are no pictures,
uh, in his cell.

Sheriff, I understand that
you have conducted

your own investigation
into sex workers,

hookers that may have
met up with Heuermann.

What, if anything,
have you learned?

My staff has reached out
to almost 100 sex workers,

those that are incarcerated
and previously incarcerated,

just to see if there's been
anyone that has, uh,

you know, felt like they met
with him or spoke with him.

So there have been
two individuals

that have said that
they have, um,

met with Mr. Heuermann.

Uh, my staff is working with
the taskforce

to see if those statements
are valid, and, um,

you know,
if a further investigation
needs to continue.

Well, you've got the barrier.

And I'm gonna go to
Tara Rosenblum

on this issue. News 12
senior investigative reporter.

Tara, thank you
for being with us.

You are conducting
your own investigation.

What have you learned?

Where my team is really
spending most of our time now

is investigating what's
playing out in Las Vegas.

Why? Because we know that

Rex Heuermann has a connection
to the area.

We know that he has had
at least two timeshares there

over the past two decades.

So my team and I
put together a list

the old-fashioned way,
combing through

record and databases online.

And we were able
to determine that

the Las Vegas Metropolitan
Police Department

is handling 266
active cold cases right now,

and out of those,
61 involve women.

So we went through, Nancy,
one by one.

Reaching out
to family members,

developing
law enforcement sources.

And what we've been able
to determine, Nancy, is that

as of right now,
you and I talking,

there are three,

and based on new information
I just got today,

probably closer to five cases

that very closely mirror

the methodology
and the circumstances

in which the Gilgo victims
were discovered,

the manner in which
they were killed,

and the overall profile
of the victims themselves.

Could you explain
the similarities between

those murders
and the Gilgo murders?

Absolutely. So one of
those cases in particular

that I'm researching hard

involves
the gruesome discovery

that was made
off a remote highway

in Las Vegas 20 years ago.

An 18-year-old was discovered,
Victoria Camara.

She was also
a young sex worker,

a new mom who had
fallen on hard times

and was resorting
to prostitution to get by.

I just got a hold of
her autopsy report,

and I compared it
to the records that I have

on the Gilgo Four,

and, boy,
was it a similar read.

She also died
of strangulation.

Then there is
another young sex worker

who disappeared
from the Vegas area.

Her name is
Lindsay Marie Harris.

Her severed legs
were discovered

out in Springfield, Illinois.

And her severed legs
were discovered

almost in an identical way
that Karen Vergata's was.

And what really piqued
my interest,

we saw that Rex Heuermann
set up a Tinder account

using the email
Springfield Man,

and it was connected
to a name John Springfield.

So, coincidence,
we don't know.

But we know that there is
so much more
to investigate here,

and new developments
coming in every day.

Exactly the way
Vergata's body was found.

-That's right.
-Her severed legs at

near a park.

Her skull at Gilgo.

When we come back,
disturbing details emerging.

And how police say
his alleged victims

could tie into
child pornography.

Plus, what do Heuermann's
neighbors have
to say?

Welcome back. I'm Nancy Grace.

I wanna thank you
for being with us

here at ID's Special Report

on the man police say is
the Long Island Serial Killer.

Many times when talking about
an accused serial killer,

we hear the people
closest to them say,
they're shocked,

describing them
as unremarkable,
seemingly normal.

Sometimes even quiet.

But that's not what
people say about
Rex Heuermann.

They describe a man
obsessed with guns,

with hunting,
with being in control.

Mara S. Campo
has a story.

Rex Heuermann,
I'm an architect.

I'm an
architectural consultant.
I'm a troubleshooter.

Born and raised
on Long Island.

[Mara] In a
YouTube interview,

just one year
before his arrest,

the man, police say,
is the Long Island
serial killer

appears affable
and at ease.

His selfies on social media
could be anyone.

But many of Heuermann's
close associates say

those images
don't represent
the man they knew.

In an article
for New York Magazine,

Mary Shell writes about
working for Heuermann
16 years ago,

saying his office was mostly
staffed by women

who were young,
petite and looked like
the girl-next door,

just like his
alleged victims.

She says he would boast
about his massive
gun collection,

the one police
just confiscated.

And he'd relive
the thrill he got
from hunting,

putting out traps
and lying in wait
to kill his prey.

[gunshot]

Often describing
in detail the gory
step-by-step process

he used to dismantle
the carcasses
of his kill.

[man] The State Police
will be working this

with Nassau County Police
and State Park Police.

We're looking at
the fact that we could
have a serial killer.

[Mara] And during
the 13 years police spent
looking for him,

they say Heuermann
was searching, too,

spending hours
scouring the internet

for the latest
in the investigation

and watching sexually
violent videos of women
and even children.

Neighbors like
Nicholas Ferchaw told us

they weren't surprised
at all at his arrest.

He would always
just be chopping wood

or be... he would watch TV
on his front porch.

It... It was just
not normal thing to do
in front of your house.

He would always be
out there, no matter
when you walked by.

It's almost like
he was keeping lookout.

[Mara] But perhaps
most telling, again,
from that YouTube interview

was Heuermann's answer
to this question.

If he were a tool
to help his business,
what would he be?

-His answer...
-You know what?

I know. A cabinet
maker's hammer.

It is persuasive enough
when I need to
persuade something.

-Not someone.
-Something.

Mara, police say
when they looked

at Heuermann's
search history,

they found not only
violent videos

depicting women being
horribly tortured,

but also gut-wrenching
child pornography.

Most of the serial killer's
victims were very petite.

From that, what do
you deduce?

This is one of the most
disturbing parts
of this story,

are the Google searches.
They are listed
in the court documents.

This man was not only
searching, allegedly,
for child porn,

which by itself is illegal
to search for and watch,

he was searching
specifically for
violent child porn,

for images of children
crying or children
who had been beaten,

tied up "slave girl".

But it also potentially
gives us evidence

because he was
looking for things

that may point to
him being this killer.

For example,
"Asian twink."

We know that one
of the unidentified bodies
that were found

were of a small,
Asian man,

and people think
there could be
a connection there.

And also, is there
a connection

between his obsession
with child porn and
the size of his victims?

They were all
very, very petite.

This raises really
important questions
about the investigation.

You know, when you
describe it that way,
it's one thing,

but when you actually
read the Google searches...

-It's disgusting.
-...it's enough to make me
want to just

wash my mouth
out with soap
after I read it.

But I'm gonna do it.

It starts off
fairly innocuously
with "mistress Long Island."

Then, quickly,
"girl begging
for rape porn."

I don't like
even reading this,
but I'm gonna continue.

"Teen girl begging
for rape porn."

"Ten-year-old
school girl..."

And I have an
11-year-old, Nancy.

This just turns
my stomach.

Now let's bring in
Michael Musto

living just two doors
down from the alleged
serial killer.

Did he know
who you were?

Yeah, I mean, I only live
couple of doors down.

I mean, you know,
lived there my whole life
and so has he, so...

But, you know,
there was a lot of
weird things

that did go on
at the house.

Uh, like, for example,
you know, like,

two in the morning,
three in the morning,

he would burn his trash
in the backyard,

-which I--
-Oh, wait, wait,
wait, wait.

Two or three o'clock
in the morning,

he would be burning
trash in the backyard.

That is, just let me
tell you that's never
a good sign.

No, really, given your
neighbor's burning trash
in the backyard, why?

Yeah, and I'm surprised
that no neighbor, like,
called the cops

and see what's going on
because obviously
that's a safety hazard.

You know? And then,
you know, uh, like,
for example,

uh, my sister, you know,
she's five years
younger than me.

Um, almost the same age,
you know, as his daughter.

So she would
walk past the house

when she was,
you know, younger.

And she would always
get this, like, this weird
unsettling feeling

when she would
walk past his house.

I got a question regarding
conversations he had

with colleagues or others
about hunting.

Not just about
"I love hunting.
I go hunting."

But hunting is
woven through
the whole investigation.

And there was
one incident
where he described

basically rendering down
a dead carcass

with gruesome detail.

-Yeah.
-What about it?

Yeah and... and this person
who's recounting the story

said he was talking to her
about this hunting trip

and he got so excited
to tell the details

about dismembering
this animal

and I think we're
talking about a person

who really took pleasure
in tormenting living beings,

whether it was animals
through hunting

or if this is the man...

the calls that were made
to the family and friends

of the victims
after they were killed.

He enjoyed
tormenting people.

Yeah, that's
his metaphysical
trophy case, right?

He's getting...
He's getting gratification

from the trauma he's...
he's inflicting on these...

on these victims,
the family members.

I also wanna say,
'cause you talked about

the psychological element
to it and it's obviously...

there's lot you can
unpack there.

But also, just look
on the surface,
very commonsensical,

the Gilgo four,
they were all covered

with this burlap
camouflage, uh, material

specifically used
in duck hunting.

What was Rex Heuermann?
He was a duck hunter.

Right? You don't have to
look any deeper than that.

Don't take a detective
to figure that out.

Why was he using
that product?

Because he knew
how to use it.

He knew what
it would do.

It was breathable,
so, also, it speed up

the process of
decomposition.

When we come back,

the details of the murders
of the Gilgo Four
are horrific.

If Heuermann is the killer,

how could he be husband
and father of two

and lead such
a double life?

And how could Heuermann's
own wife have
no idea?

The family lawyer
with answers.

Welcome back,
I'm Nancy Grace.

Thank you for being with us.

While we know a lot
about the suspect,

that he was a big
city architect

who lived in his
childhood home
in Massapequa Park,

just six miles from
where 11 women
found dead.

We know very little
about his wife
of 25 years, Asa Ellerup,

his daughter
and his stepson.

So how could they,
his wife and
his adult daughter

not know their
husband and father

was allegedly behind
these gruesome killings.

Joining us right now
special guest,
Robert Macedonio.

He is the lawyer for
Rex Heuermann's wife,
Asa Ellerup.

The mother of his children.

Mr. Macedonio, thank you
for being with us.

Thank you, Nancy,
appreciated having me.

Oh, no, thank you.

Mr. Macedonio,
in all your years
of practicing law,

did you ever think
that you would be
connected with

the Long Island
serial killer suspect?

No.

Never... never could
have imagined that.

You know? Many of us,
I get questions about this,
everywhere I go,

how could the wife
not know?

But when I saw
your client's face
on TV,

she walked by the camera,
she looked at the camera.

I looked at her
and there was nothing
but pain there.

She's having
a difficult time
processing everything.

So, we've tried to tell her
to remove herself from that

and just pay attention
on focusing on
getting her...

her own sanity
back together,

her own strength
for her children.

But like I said,
if this is true,

we're just assuming for
the purposes of our
conversation that it's true,

he lived a
complete double life.

Honestly, I had no idea
any of this was going on.

And I think that's
pretty evident

in the DA's bail application
and their investigation.

They've said that she...
he was on vacation

or out of this jurisdiction
on any of these occasions.

I can assure you,
she had no idea
any of this was happening.

[Nancy] And on top
of it, her hair

is on two of
the murder victims.

And I don't know what else,
what other evidence
is going to unfold.

But, would it be
your client's assertation

that that was a
transfer from either
Heuermann himself,

a hair of hers
that he transferred
to one of the victims

or one of the victims
were actually
in the home?

At this point I only want
to speculate, Nancy,

'cause we only know
what the media's reporting.

They have not taken
DNA from Asa.

We don't know whether
it's her hair.

We just know it's
a likeness of her hair.

Um, so there's been
also a lot of speculation
in media

talking about a
soundproof room

in the basement
of the house.

I was at the house,
there is no soundproof
room down there.

That is a gun safe
but it's certainly
not a soundproof room.

There's also mention
of some strange doll.

I've seen the doll
they're speaking about.

It's a collectible doll,
that's Asa's.

[Nancy] Will her home
be torn down?

I mean, does she even
want to go back
to the home?

She may not even
want to go back.

But the reality is,
where else does
she have to go?

She has nowhere
else to go.

We had some volunteers
that donated a dumpster

and a clean-up crew
with five gentlemen
that helped

clean up the yard
and move... remove debris.

The house, it was
gone through by the police
for over two weeks.

They destroyed a lot
of the personal property

when they were taking...
uh, extracting forensic
evidence out of there.

To the extent where they
took, like, the elbows,
the drain pipes out.

I guess to look
for any kind of DNA

or any kind of thing
that would have been
caught in the drain traps.

She can't even run
the water in the bathrooms
or the kitchen sinks,

'cause the drain taps
have been taken out.

So it's gonna take
a lot of work

to restore that house
where it's habitable.

[Nancy] So she's lost
basically her husband,
such as he was,

her home, her whole life
is in the shambles.

Has your client
been in touch with
Heuermann behind bars?

They have not
met in person.

They've spoken
by telephone.

And, like, you know,
Sheriff Elon, um, Errol
had said that

all the calls are recorded
so we've instructed her

not to discuss
any of the facts
in the case,

about the case and/or
what's being reported
to media.

Um, because
everything is
being recorded.

I got a question for you,
it's a personal question.

Robert Macedonio
is with us, who represents
Heuermann's wife.

Does she think
she's still in love
with him?

You know, as you will see
when Asa's true story
comes out,

I think you'll realize
the other issues
in the marriage.

And Asa has her
own story to tell
at some point in time.

So, whether she's
in love with or not,

I... I... I don't even
want to speculate
on that,

but she'll have
her own story,
you'll see why,

you know, we filed
for divorce when
her story comes out.

Thank you, sir,
for being with us.

Thank you,
appreciate it, Nancy.

Derrick, it took so long
to get to this point,

but I understand, to you,
it's bitter sweet. Why?

Absolutely bittersweet.

You know, I'm glad
we potentially got our guy.

But to think that they
had the information

linking to Rex in 2010,

and to think that
he was out on the streets
all that time

and there could potentially
be even more victims

that we don't know about
during that duration.

You know,
from 2010 to now.

To think that this could
have been nipped
in the bud right there,

it's... it's...
it's frustrating.

The victims in this case,

I think one of the reasons
there was no rush
to solve it

is because so many people
didn't care about them.

[Mara] That's
absolutely right.

That's one of the
big reasons why

this killer was able
to go on for so long,

because he targeted
sex workers.

And everybody knows,
if you want to get away
with murder,

you go after victims
that nobody cares about.

But these women were more
than sex workers.

They were mothers,
they were providers
for their families.

They had hopes
and dreams.

They were doing this work
to try to make ends meet
and pay the bills.

Thye deserve so much
better than being
treated like garbage.

And to think,
the way their bodies
were desecrated

after a horrible,
horrible death.

Derrick, Mara,
thank you so much

for joining us tonight.

But specially,
thank you to you,

for being here on ID

for ID's Special Report.

I'm Nancy Grace,
goodnight friend.