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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:05,714 --> 00:00:07,257 You're hurting me. 2 00:00:07,257 --> 00:00:11,512 You're hurting me. You're hurting me. 3 00:00:53,679 --> 00:00:57,349 - What's the matter? - I can't tell you. 4 00:00:58,517 --> 00:01:01,645 This time, Janet was thrown right out of the room, onto the stairs. 5 00:01:05,899 --> 00:01:07,693 I saw you banging on the floor, Janet. 6 00:01:08,569 --> 00:01:10,112 I didn't bang. 7 00:01:10,112 --> 00:01:12,155 I saw you bang. 8 00:01:15,284 --> 00:01:17,077 Janet. Can you hear me, Janet? 9 00:01:17,578 --> 00:01:19,621 Janet, can you hear me? 10 00:01:19,621 --> 00:01:21,039 One time when we s-- 11 00:01:23,417 --> 00:01:26,086 Why didn't you spit the water out until I told you? 12 00:01:28,338 --> 00:01:31,717 No, I don't want you to do anything until I tell you. 13 00:01:57,910 --> 00:02:02,080 Janet. Janet. Janet. 14 00:02:02,831 --> 00:02:06,877 Janet. Can you hear me? Janet? Can you hear me, Janet? 15 00:03:14,820 --> 00:03:17,489 All right, Janet. Well done. All right, now, Janet. 16 00:03:17,489 --> 00:03:18,907 There's a good girl. 17 00:03:18,907 --> 00:03:21,410 There's a good girl. All right. 18 00:03:22,119 --> 00:03:24,037 I blamed myself a lot. 19 00:03:27,374 --> 00:03:31,920 The fact that I went into care alone and Margaret and Bill were still there. 20 00:03:37,092 --> 00:03:40,220 It was my fault because I was the epicenter. 21 00:03:49,021 --> 00:03:50,063 Why me? 22 00:03:53,901 --> 00:03:58,572 {\an8}Why did it happen to me, our family? Why? 23 00:04:06,288 --> 00:04:10,292 I've never actually done that many interviews or documentaries. 24 00:04:11,585 --> 00:04:14,963 And I was always very dubious about doing any of them 25 00:04:14,963 --> 00:04:16,964 'cause it does bring it all back again, 26 00:04:16,964 --> 00:04:21,428 and there's all the emotions that I've tried to escape all my life. 27 00:04:41,490 --> 00:04:43,951 Yeah, I remember that one. 28 00:04:43,951 --> 00:04:46,453 - The look of terror on Mum's face. - Yeah, I remember. 29 00:04:56,129 --> 00:04:58,131 - That one. - Yeah. 30 00:04:58,131 --> 00:05:00,467 When I was pulled out of bed. 31 00:05:01,385 --> 00:05:03,554 And that distressed me to see you like that. 32 00:05:03,554 --> 00:05:05,264 That distressed me terrible. 33 00:05:20,237 --> 00:05:23,198 Yeah, I remember being turned off the settee. 34 00:05:24,199 --> 00:05:25,701 Tipped upside down. 35 00:05:27,327 --> 00:05:29,788 - It just turned over. And-- - Yeah. 36 00:05:29,788 --> 00:05:32,124 And she'd run off it, and then it'd be over on the-- 37 00:05:32,124 --> 00:05:33,500 tip up on the floor. 38 00:05:42,009 --> 00:05:46,263 Does feel strange though. Like going back in time. 39 00:05:47,097 --> 00:05:50,225 Really does. All those years ago. 40 00:05:55,647 --> 00:05:57,065 Looking back now, 41 00:05:58,150 --> 00:06:01,820 something could come into our lives, into our house. 42 00:06:04,031 --> 00:06:08,035 Could it have been something that drew energy from me? 43 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,211 June, 1978. 44 00:06:18,003 --> 00:06:21,798 {\an8}Janet has now spent six weeks in a home run by nuns. 45 00:06:24,009 --> 00:06:26,595 We are redoubling our efforts to help her, 46 00:06:27,638 --> 00:06:30,182 but none of the doctors, psychiatrists, 47 00:06:30,182 --> 00:06:33,060 or psychologists who have witnessed her altered states 48 00:06:33,060 --> 00:06:35,395 can agree on their diagnosis. 49 00:06:36,730 --> 00:06:39,650 The psychiatrist consulted by the local doctor 50 00:06:40,234 --> 00:06:44,196 suggested we simply go away and leave the family alone. 51 00:06:45,739 --> 00:06:48,242 Maurice was a very compassionate man. 52 00:06:48,242 --> 00:06:51,537 And there's no doubt that he cared about the family. 53 00:06:52,371 --> 00:06:54,623 {\an8}That's important because, as a psychical researcher, 54 00:06:54,623 --> 00:06:57,125 {\an8}you probably want the phenomena to go on as long as possible. 55 00:06:57,125 --> 00:06:59,878 You know, this doesn't often happen, so you're quite keen to-- 56 00:06:59,878 --> 00:07:02,798 to sort of get evidence for this. On the other hand, 57 00:07:03,298 --> 00:07:06,677 {\an8}as a human being, you're dealing-- you realize you're dealing 58 00:07:06,677 --> 00:07:08,929 {\an8}with people who are going through a very traumatic state. 59 00:07:08,929 --> 00:07:12,266 And so, from that point of view, you want the phenomena to stop. 60 00:07:17,479 --> 00:07:20,274 I was having these bad nightmares. 61 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:25,445 Nights used to be so long. 62 00:07:26,613 --> 00:07:31,159 When I look back now, I don't know how I stayed sane. 63 00:07:35,038 --> 00:07:36,957 I just wanted to run away. 64 00:07:41,670 --> 00:07:44,715 I do remember being concerned about Janet. 65 00:07:45,632 --> 00:07:48,177 Just mentally and physically, emotionally. 66 00:07:50,846 --> 00:07:54,016 {\an8}To be screaming, hysterical, 67 00:07:54,558 --> 00:07:59,062 {\an8}to have that amount of tension, she needed help. 68 00:08:02,441 --> 00:08:05,194 {\an8}July the 26th, 1978. 69 00:08:05,861 --> 00:08:09,114 We have finally got Janet admitted to the Maudsley Hospital 70 00:08:09,114 --> 00:08:11,909 under the care of Dr. Peter Fenwick, 71 00:08:11,909 --> 00:08:14,453 head of the neurological department. 72 00:08:18,457 --> 00:08:20,250 Guy Playfair said to me, 73 00:08:20,250 --> 00:08:25,172 {\an8}"We've got this fascinating phenomena going on at Enfield. A poltergeist. 74 00:08:26,924 --> 00:08:32,179 The girl, Janet, goes into strange, contorted positions. 75 00:08:34,139 --> 00:08:37,017 And do you think that she has epilepsy?" 76 00:08:37,768 --> 00:08:42,188 And so, I originally thought, "Well, poltergeists and epilepsy? 77 00:08:42,773 --> 00:08:43,774 Doubt it. 78 00:08:45,776 --> 00:08:47,986 But it's certainly worth looking at Janet." 79 00:08:56,703 --> 00:08:58,497 I thought I was going home. 80 00:08:59,665 --> 00:09:04,211 So, I was very surprised to be going to stay in a hospital. 81 00:09:06,547 --> 00:09:09,049 Remember, it's 47 years ago, 82 00:09:09,049 --> 00:09:14,638 but I do have Janet's permission to talk about her on camera. 83 00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:21,186 I'm a neuropsychiatrist, which means "neuro" understand the brain-- 84 00:09:21,186 --> 00:09:24,273 -"psychiatrist"-- understand behavior. - If you looking at this... 85 00:09:24,273 --> 00:09:29,903 People who had disorders of behavior used to be referred to me. 86 00:09:31,697 --> 00:09:34,449 I was also interested in consciousness. 87 00:09:35,117 --> 00:09:38,662 And so, my interests were wider 88 00:09:38,662 --> 00:09:41,039 than just simple reductionist science. 89 00:09:44,209 --> 00:09:45,752 What I was wanting to know is 90 00:09:45,752 --> 00:09:48,839 whether you could separate poltergeist effects, 91 00:09:48,839 --> 00:09:52,968 epilepsy, and behavioral changes in the person. 92 00:09:57,681 --> 00:10:02,019 We ran a whole lot of tests on her to see, particularly, 93 00:10:02,019 --> 00:10:05,189 if there was an organic basis for her behavior. 94 00:10:09,484 --> 00:10:12,529 They wanted to see what was going on in me brain. 95 00:10:17,201 --> 00:10:19,119 When you're that young, you know, you think, 96 00:10:19,119 --> 00:10:22,122 "Psychiatry, what does that really mean?" You know? 97 00:10:25,250 --> 00:10:27,836 People think, "It's madness. 98 00:10:27,836 --> 00:10:29,963 They've gone into there because they're mad." 99 00:10:30,589 --> 00:10:32,591 But there's different reasons. 100 00:10:33,592 --> 00:10:37,054 Is it something in the body? Or is it in the brain? 101 00:10:37,054 --> 00:10:40,265 Or is it something that's happened from the past? 102 00:10:43,310 --> 00:10:46,230 All of the physical tests we did were normal. 103 00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:51,318 And so we then wondered about the behavioral component. 104 00:10:54,112 --> 00:10:56,365 What I did know about poltergeists 105 00:10:56,365 --> 00:10:58,492 at this time was that they tended to occur, 106 00:10:58,492 --> 00:11:02,913 usually, where there was a very high tension in the family. 107 00:11:14,591 --> 00:11:18,679 I haven't really listened to the tapes up until now. 108 00:11:21,723 --> 00:11:26,144 But it's like I'm meant to go back 'cause it's gonna teach me something. 109 00:11:29,398 --> 00:11:31,149 Why do you think it's chosen you? 110 00:11:31,149 --> 00:11:33,110 {\an8}Why do you think it's happening to you? 111 00:11:34,736 --> 00:11:38,782 {\an8}Well, I can't directly answer that, 112 00:11:39,324 --> 00:11:43,287 but there's been a lot of distress in the house before all this happened. 113 00:11:43,871 --> 00:11:47,457 I think it goes right back to when her father was here. 114 00:11:48,083 --> 00:11:49,543 And I mean, he wouldn't let those kids play. 115 00:11:49,543 --> 00:11:50,794 He wouldn't let them have any toys out. 116 00:11:50,794 --> 00:11:53,005 If there was a row outside, he used to bring them in. 117 00:11:54,256 --> 00:11:57,259 He's been gone two years this month-- the 14th of this month. 118 00:11:58,635 --> 00:12:01,013 I was in a very low state, 119 00:12:01,513 --> 00:12:05,017 and I did feel very depressed after Mr. Hodgson went. 120 00:12:05,017 --> 00:12:08,770 It all sort of bounded back on me, all the distress. 121 00:12:08,770 --> 00:12:13,859 I suddenly realized how we'd been living and how hard it had been. 122 00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:17,029 And it all built up, I suppose. 123 00:12:18,906 --> 00:12:21,533 I think, between them, they've bottled up such a lot. 124 00:12:23,118 --> 00:12:24,828 That might have had something to do with it. 125 00:12:25,454 --> 00:12:27,706 That's the only reason I can think of. 126 00:12:31,418 --> 00:12:32,794 Looking back now, 127 00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:37,799 there was a lot of stress and tension in the family. 128 00:12:39,384 --> 00:12:42,971 The upset of Johnny going away to school. 129 00:12:43,639 --> 00:12:45,724 Mum and Dad had divorced. 130 00:12:49,061 --> 00:12:51,313 I remember before I was ten, 131 00:12:52,105 --> 00:12:55,359 {\an8}my parents would regularly have rows. 132 00:12:58,070 --> 00:13:01,573 And one day, I don't know what my mum done-- 133 00:13:01,573 --> 00:13:03,659 She went to open the front door, 134 00:13:03,659 --> 00:13:05,744 and he shut her arm in it. 135 00:13:05,744 --> 00:13:07,955 I remember this very well. 136 00:13:08,705 --> 00:13:11,917 And I remember things getting a bit overheated, 137 00:13:11,917 --> 00:13:14,711 and they were arguing and shouting at each other. 138 00:13:16,421 --> 00:13:19,508 And I remember, my father sat me down, 139 00:13:19,508 --> 00:13:24,179 and he said to me, "I won't be living here anymore, you know. 140 00:13:24,888 --> 00:13:27,140 We're getting divorced, Mum and I." 141 00:13:29,935 --> 00:13:32,271 Our lives changed then. 142 00:13:33,105 --> 00:13:35,732 And then I don't remember much more childhood. 143 00:13:39,528 --> 00:13:45,033 It did really affect me. I mean, my dad he was hotheaded. 144 00:13:45,617 --> 00:13:48,161 He had no patience. 145 00:13:50,372 --> 00:13:52,499 But then I cried when he left. 146 00:13:56,461 --> 00:14:01,216 It was like there was an absence. Something was missing. 147 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,222 Did hit me hard, actually. It did. Yeah. 148 00:14:07,931 --> 00:14:09,391 That's what I'm saying, right? 149 00:14:09,391 --> 00:14:10,893 You go in the small bed, Margaret. 150 00:14:10,893 --> 00:14:12,269 Trust you to say that. 151 00:14:12,269 --> 00:14:14,646 There is a great deal of emotional stress in the family. 152 00:14:14,646 --> 00:14:16,815 ...you come back from the shops this afternoon. 153 00:14:16,815 --> 00:14:21,278 But how is stress capable of physically affecting its surroundings? 154 00:14:22,946 --> 00:14:25,032 How does all that fit into the picture? 155 00:14:27,451 --> 00:14:29,786 The chair, which was standing by Janet's bed. 156 00:14:29,786 --> 00:14:31,205 Mum, he's tricking me. 157 00:14:31,205 --> 00:14:33,207 Christ! It's the ghost! 158 00:14:33,207 --> 00:14:35,667 And there was a chest of drawers moving towards the door. 159 00:14:35,667 --> 00:14:37,336 Bash the window! 160 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:39,254 What's happened? 161 00:14:39,254 --> 00:14:41,131 Now the chair gone over. 162 00:14:41,131 --> 00:14:43,592 It just tipped over the settee in front of us. 163 00:14:50,224 --> 00:14:53,018 I've never used to like going upstairs on me own. 164 00:14:54,394 --> 00:14:57,898 It was like there was something there. 165 00:15:00,317 --> 00:15:03,445 It was a feeling like it was behind me. 166 00:15:10,077 --> 00:15:13,622 Now, tell me, what are you doing here, and why are you here? 167 00:15:15,541 --> 00:15:18,126 {\an8}Shall I tell you really who I am? 168 00:15:20,587 --> 00:15:22,089 Really? 169 00:15:24,424 --> 00:15:26,802 Some people have to see it to believe it. 170 00:15:26,802 --> 00:15:31,807 But once you've experienced it, you know that it's real. 171 00:15:39,231 --> 00:15:42,526 27th, 1978, in the Maudsley Hospital. 172 00:15:43,610 --> 00:15:46,613 Well, Janet, come over here and stick your mouth near the microphone 173 00:15:46,613 --> 00:15:47,865 - so we can hear you. - Yeah. 174 00:15:47,865 --> 00:15:48,907 That's all right. 175 00:15:48,907 --> 00:15:50,659 Tell me-- You're saying when you're on your own, 176 00:15:50,659 --> 00:15:52,077 you're not-- you're not-- 177 00:15:53,161 --> 00:15:54,329 Nothing happens when you're on your own. 178 00:15:54,329 --> 00:15:56,164 I can guarantee that nothing will happen now. 179 00:15:56,164 --> 00:15:58,166 - Really? - Just got that feeling. 180 00:15:58,750 --> 00:16:02,754 But when you're with Margaret and your mum, 181 00:16:02,754 --> 00:16:06,008 - you feel this sort of force building up? - Builds up, yeah. 182 00:16:06,008 --> 00:16:07,926 Does it? What does it feel like? I mean-- 183 00:16:07,926 --> 00:16:10,888 Yeah, and in the end mum winds up by shouting at me over it, 184 00:16:10,888 --> 00:16:12,431 'cause it's happening round me. 185 00:16:12,431 --> 00:16:14,516 That's why I say the energy comes to me. 186 00:16:14,933 --> 00:16:16,435 It all builds up around me. 187 00:16:17,227 --> 00:16:19,313 I'd like to sleep in the little room on me own, you know what I mean? 188 00:16:19,313 --> 00:16:21,148 You'd like to sleep on your own from now on? 189 00:16:21,148 --> 00:16:22,191 Yeah. 190 00:16:22,191 --> 00:16:24,401 - What, on your own, without anybody? - Yeah. 191 00:16:24,401 --> 00:16:25,986 I could decorate me own bedroom and everything. 192 00:16:25,986 --> 00:16:27,863 Yes. You should do that. That's very important actually. 193 00:16:27,863 --> 00:16:29,281 You ought to do that as soon as you get home. 194 00:16:29,281 --> 00:16:32,326 - Yeah. I was gonna get a paintbrush-- - Just get a brush and go... 195 00:16:32,993 --> 00:16:36,538 I've got a radio. That'll keep me company of a night. 196 00:16:36,538 --> 00:16:38,916 - Yeah. - What, on your own, without anybody? 197 00:16:38,916 --> 00:16:42,336 Strange, sort of, listening to me at that age. 198 00:16:43,003 --> 00:16:47,132 I seem quite determined. I think, "Wow. 199 00:16:47,132 --> 00:16:48,675 Really? Was this me?" 200 00:16:50,302 --> 00:16:52,012 Think you'll forget all about your dad soon? 201 00:16:52,012 --> 00:16:54,765 - You know, when you grow up and-- - He's been gone two years now. 202 00:16:54,765 --> 00:16:56,808 You'll have lots of boyfriends before long. 203 00:16:56,808 --> 00:16:58,310 You won't remember him. 204 00:17:00,103 --> 00:17:02,731 But we gotta stop this damn thing, you know, now. 205 00:17:04,608 --> 00:17:07,319 - It's not doing you any good. - I know. That's what Mum said. 206 00:17:11,031 --> 00:17:13,659 You know, you're gonna be quite famous one day. 207 00:17:23,210 --> 00:17:26,839 There's no doubt about Janet's relief in getting away from the family. 208 00:17:30,259 --> 00:17:34,555 She immediately relaxed and became really a quite different girl 209 00:17:34,555 --> 00:17:36,723 after she'd been with us for a bit. 210 00:17:38,225 --> 00:17:40,561 We had her in there for six weeks, 211 00:17:40,561 --> 00:17:46,108 and we found a not-unusual teenager. 212 00:17:57,661 --> 00:18:00,497 {\an8}Mrs. Hodgson is talking about her interview... 213 00:18:00,497 --> 00:18:03,041 - ...with Dr. Fenwick. - Fenwick. 214 00:18:03,876 --> 00:18:06,712 - He asked you how Janet was. - Yeah. 215 00:18:06,712 --> 00:18:08,046 Just tell me that again, will you? 216 00:18:08,046 --> 00:18:11,091 And I turned round, and I said, Janet has been a lot better 217 00:18:11,091 --> 00:18:13,427 since she's been away from the house, which she has, 218 00:18:13,427 --> 00:18:15,262 - and she looked a lot better. - Yeah. 219 00:18:16,388 --> 00:18:17,222 Can I get in here? 220 00:18:17,222 --> 00:18:19,308 My wife will tell you the next time you ask her 221 00:18:19,892 --> 00:18:22,644 that she was amazed when she saw Janet away. 222 00:18:22,644 --> 00:18:28,483 She said that-- the way she described it-- cowed look had gone. 223 00:18:29,443 --> 00:18:31,904 - You know what she's talking about. - She looked very cowed before she left. 224 00:18:31,904 --> 00:18:33,697 Very cowed. She said it's completely gone. 225 00:18:33,697 --> 00:18:37,117 Yeah. Well, I also said to him-- I must bear in mind, 226 00:18:37,117 --> 00:18:40,162 and I must admit that Janet is a moody child. 227 00:18:40,162 --> 00:18:42,247 - And she's a very restless child. - Yeah. 228 00:18:42,873 --> 00:18:44,666 But I'll tell you what I think-- 229 00:18:45,417 --> 00:18:47,127 and I'm gonna be quite honest about it-- 230 00:18:47,127 --> 00:18:50,339 she's my daughter, and I miss her very much, 231 00:18:51,048 --> 00:18:53,550 but I don't think she should come back here. 232 00:18:56,386 --> 00:18:59,139 With me, like, I was the black sheep, you know? 233 00:19:02,017 --> 00:19:04,394 She didn't really want me 'cause I was trouble. 234 00:19:06,605 --> 00:19:09,233 I was part of the problem while it was happening. 235 00:19:15,822 --> 00:19:21,119 When I came out the Maudsley, I was picked up by the social worker. 236 00:19:22,621 --> 00:19:25,290 And he was taking me around children's homes, 237 00:19:25,290 --> 00:19:28,627 trying to find another children's home for me. 238 00:19:37,928 --> 00:19:40,097 He couldn't find one. They were all full. 239 00:19:42,015 --> 00:19:42,850 Okay... 240 00:19:42,850 --> 00:19:45,602 And in the end, he took me back to Mum. 241 00:19:51,942 --> 00:19:53,443 And Mum's face, 242 00:19:54,486 --> 00:19:56,947 I could tell she didn't really want me home. 243 00:20:04,830 --> 00:20:10,002 I think she was fearful that it would all really start up badly again 244 00:20:10,002 --> 00:20:11,879 because I was back there. 245 00:20:17,634 --> 00:20:19,303 This is the... 246 00:20:20,304 --> 00:20:23,056 In this program, we're going to explore an area 247 00:20:23,056 --> 00:20:26,894 where our common sense notions aren't going to be much help to us at all. 248 00:20:26,894 --> 00:20:30,314 How does the uncertainty principle square up with the everyday world? 249 00:20:32,232 --> 00:20:38,280 When I got home, I just needed peace and to-- just to be left alone, really. 250 00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:36,672 Clear off. Get out. We've had enough. 251 00:21:36,672 --> 00:21:40,592 We've had enough of you. Go back where you came from. 252 00:21:57,192 --> 00:22:02,447 I would like, for one moment, to contemplate the word "truth." 253 00:22:04,867 --> 00:22:06,702 Where does the truth lie? 254 00:22:07,953 --> 00:22:11,623 Only in the everyday decipherings of our five senses? 255 00:22:14,668 --> 00:22:18,005 Or might it rest in the depths of an unknown dimension, 256 00:22:20,007 --> 00:22:21,758 beyond our understanding? 257 00:22:33,770 --> 00:22:38,442 {\an8}Hello, Mr. Grosse. It's Sunday, October the 8th, 1978. 258 00:22:38,442 --> 00:22:41,195 And I'm just going to make a copy for you-- 259 00:22:41,904 --> 00:22:43,906 for your private collection-- 260 00:22:45,073 --> 00:22:50,871 of the tape I made with Peter Liefhebber and Dono Gmelig-Meyling. 261 00:22:51,496 --> 00:22:55,918 I thought this most remarkable story needed to be got down on tape at once, 262 00:22:55,918 --> 00:22:59,004 so I went round and I made the tape which follows. 263 00:22:59,004 --> 00:23:02,382 I won't comment on it yet until you've had time to think it over. 264 00:23:04,593 --> 00:23:07,846 I think you'll find these coincidences quite interesting. 265 00:23:08,805 --> 00:23:13,393 You'll notice that I didn't offer any information concerning you personally. 266 00:23:16,438 --> 00:23:18,398 Before the investigation, 267 00:23:18,941 --> 00:23:22,444 my father had suffered a huge emotional loss. 268 00:23:23,362 --> 00:23:26,365 And Guy-- because he was a spiritualist, 269 00:23:26,365 --> 00:23:28,116 because he believed in those things-- 270 00:23:28,742 --> 00:23:34,081 couldn't get out of his mind a potential connection. 271 00:23:35,207 --> 00:23:37,167 All right. I'll start the copy now. 272 00:23:41,755 --> 00:23:45,217 {\an8}Friday, October the 6th, 1978. 273 00:23:45,217 --> 00:23:47,845 {\an8}Belgravia Hotel, to see Peter Liefhebber. 274 00:23:48,929 --> 00:23:51,390 - Right. Here we are in the hotel, Peter. - Yes. 275 00:23:52,516 --> 00:23:55,102 Well, I wonder, could you tell me roughly what you told me on the phone? 276 00:23:55,102 --> 00:23:57,271 What exactly happened? 277 00:23:58,021 --> 00:24:00,941 On Wednesday evening, we met Maurice Grosse for the first time. 278 00:24:00,941 --> 00:24:02,776 - Yes. - And when he came in the car, 279 00:24:02,776 --> 00:24:06,196 Dono and I felt the same thing. 280 00:24:06,905 --> 00:24:08,198 An enormous tension again, 281 00:24:08,198 --> 00:24:11,910 the same tenseness we felt when we first arrived 282 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,204 in the Hodgson's house. 283 00:24:15,247 --> 00:24:19,501 And he said to me, "There is something with Maurice-- 284 00:24:19,501 --> 00:24:21,044 There is something in his aura. 285 00:24:21,545 --> 00:24:24,631 I can't figure out now what is there, but there is something. 286 00:24:24,631 --> 00:24:27,801 Something very close, connected to the whole affair." 287 00:24:27,801 --> 00:24:29,511 And he didn't say that about me, for instance? 288 00:24:29,511 --> 00:24:30,679 No. No, no. 289 00:24:31,638 --> 00:24:35,350 Dono said that there was something... 290 00:24:36,101 --> 00:24:39,354 very close in his family related with the affair. 291 00:24:39,938 --> 00:24:41,523 It was quite obvious that 292 00:24:42,357 --> 00:24:43,859 there should have been 293 00:24:43,859 --> 00:24:46,111 also some poltergeist phenomena 294 00:24:46,111 --> 00:24:48,405 within the neighborhood of Maurice Grosse. 295 00:24:49,323 --> 00:24:50,240 Well, I didn't-- 296 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,950 Because of the shape of his aura. 297 00:24:57,873 --> 00:24:59,625 {\an8}And that Monday evening, 298 00:24:59,625 --> 00:25:04,338 {\an8}Dono had an out-of-the-body experience in the house of the Hodgsons. 299 00:25:04,338 --> 00:25:07,174 - He can do things like that at will. - Yes. 300 00:25:07,174 --> 00:25:13,388 And on the astral level, he saw a girl of about 24 years old. 301 00:25:14,848 --> 00:25:16,725 She had a rather long face 302 00:25:17,893 --> 00:25:21,688 and rather brown or dark hair or something like that, 303 00:25:21,688 --> 00:25:23,440 but it was rather vague. 304 00:25:24,525 --> 00:25:26,068 It was just an impression, you know. 305 00:25:26,401 --> 00:25:29,780 All those things consist merely of impressions. 306 00:25:30,781 --> 00:25:36,453 Dono told me that he thought that the girl had been in hospital. 307 00:25:37,329 --> 00:25:38,956 That there was something with her head. 308 00:25:38,956 --> 00:25:40,874 There was something wrong with her head? 309 00:25:40,874 --> 00:25:42,417 Something with her head, yes. 310 00:25:42,417 --> 00:25:44,795 There was some damage to her brains or something like that. 311 00:25:44,795 --> 00:25:46,171 - Damage? - Yes. 312 00:25:52,344 --> 00:25:54,513 My sister was a character. 313 00:25:55,764 --> 00:25:58,559 My sister lived life to the full. 314 00:25:59,226 --> 00:26:03,981 {\an8}She was Janet Esther Grosse, and she was 22 years old. 315 00:26:04,690 --> 00:26:08,277 {\an8}She was 22 years old. No age at all. 316 00:26:14,449 --> 00:26:17,870 My sister was killed in a motorcycle accident in Cardiff. 317 00:26:19,371 --> 00:26:21,206 And it happened on my birthday. 318 00:26:23,625 --> 00:26:27,796 I received a visit from the police, I think, 2:30 in the morning, 319 00:26:29,256 --> 00:26:31,967 telling me that I should go to Cardiff Royal Infirmary 320 00:26:32,634 --> 00:26:34,344 because that's where she was. 321 00:26:36,138 --> 00:26:41,393 {\an8}Janet was lying on the hospital bed with her head wrapped 322 00:26:41,393 --> 00:26:43,353 {\an8}in bandages, and two black eyes. 323 00:26:43,353 --> 00:26:46,899 {\an8}She'd suffered a major trauma to her head. 324 00:26:50,194 --> 00:26:52,613 And we all sat there. And it was a tragic day. 325 00:26:53,113 --> 00:26:54,990 And we eventually switched the machine off, 326 00:26:54,990 --> 00:26:57,367 and my sister passed away. 327 00:27:00,996 --> 00:27:05,792 And around that awful event 328 00:27:05,792 --> 00:27:08,962 were some extraordinary things that happened. 329 00:27:11,632 --> 00:27:14,927 Call them coincidence, call them fate, call them whatever you like. 330 00:27:16,762 --> 00:27:20,766 The afternoon before, when my sister had her accident, 331 00:27:20,766 --> 00:27:22,768 my mother was on the beach. 332 00:27:23,852 --> 00:27:28,232 And at that time, 4:20 in the afternoon, she felt seriously ill, 333 00:27:28,232 --> 00:27:32,069 so ill that my father wanted to call an ambulance to the beach. 334 00:27:34,112 --> 00:27:39,826 A clock that had always worked stopped at the precise time, 4:20. 335 00:27:42,663 --> 00:27:47,876 It was the summer of 1976 when it didn't rain for months, 336 00:27:47,876 --> 00:27:50,128 and there was a huge water shortage. 337 00:27:51,380 --> 00:27:55,092 And underneath my sister's bedroom window is the roof 338 00:27:55,592 --> 00:27:57,845 of the extension to the kitchen. 339 00:27:59,429 --> 00:28:01,557 That roof was soaking wet. 340 00:28:03,183 --> 00:28:07,729 No other roofs anywhere around were wet. Just that roof. 341 00:28:12,067 --> 00:28:16,572 But I think the most extraordinary event happened to me. 342 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,118 After my sister died, on the way back, on the train, 343 00:28:21,118 --> 00:28:23,996 I realized that my sister would've sent me a birthday card. 344 00:28:25,330 --> 00:28:27,875 And that birthday card would almost certainly 345 00:28:27,875 --> 00:28:30,919 be on the mat at home when I got in. 346 00:28:34,548 --> 00:28:39,678 Janet's birthday card to Richard, August the 5th, 1976. 347 00:28:43,348 --> 00:28:47,144 I was absolutely amazed by what I saw. 348 00:28:48,687 --> 00:28:54,193 On the front was a person with a head wrapped in bandages, 349 00:28:54,193 --> 00:28:56,904 two black eyes, in a hospital gown. 350 00:28:59,823 --> 00:29:03,911 "I was going to buy you a bottle of toilet water for your birthday... 351 00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:08,749 but the lid fell on my head. Happy birthday." 352 00:29:09,917 --> 00:29:13,045 A strange, strange wording for a card. 353 00:29:14,588 --> 00:29:18,008 But what was even stranger was that my sister had written 354 00:29:18,008 --> 00:29:22,179 in her own hand an arrow pointing to the word "head." 355 00:29:22,179 --> 00:29:23,889 And it went down, and it said, 356 00:29:23,889 --> 00:29:28,936 "And there won't be much left of that soon anyway. Love, Jan." 357 00:29:30,812 --> 00:29:34,274 How could she have known, but without knowing? 358 00:29:34,274 --> 00:29:36,985 How could-- How could something like this happen? 359 00:29:36,985 --> 00:29:38,070 It's... 360 00:29:40,989 --> 00:29:42,407 It's too unreal. 361 00:29:46,161 --> 00:29:50,249 All these phenomena, and the fact that they all happened at the same time, 362 00:29:50,958 --> 00:29:53,961 made us feel that there was something going on. 363 00:29:53,961 --> 00:29:55,671 Janet. Janet. 364 00:29:55,671 --> 00:29:57,506 Poltergeist. 365 00:29:57,506 --> 00:29:59,007 Something that we couldn't explain. 366 00:29:59,007 --> 00:30:00,801 Are you listening, Janet? 367 00:30:00,801 --> 00:30:05,973 P-O-L-T-E-R-G-E-I-S-T. 368 00:30:05,973 --> 00:30:08,517 Poltergeist. 369 00:30:08,517 --> 00:30:10,602 It changed him completely. 370 00:30:14,314 --> 00:30:16,400 Losing a child... 371 00:30:16,984 --> 00:30:20,779 Time helps, but you never get over it. 372 00:30:23,615 --> 00:30:24,867 Happens. 373 00:30:27,035 --> 00:30:29,663 I often wonder what would have happened had she lived, 374 00:30:30,914 --> 00:30:33,500 how different our lives would have been. 375 00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:35,961 Your life would have been quite different. You realize that, don't you? 376 00:30:35,961 --> 00:30:38,797 My life would have been quite different because it was the extraordinary things 377 00:30:38,797 --> 00:30:41,175 that happened when she-- 378 00:30:41,175 --> 00:30:44,970 around about the time she died. Extraordinary psychic thing-- 379 00:30:44,970 --> 00:30:47,181 what I consider to be psychic, and so did you-- 380 00:30:47,181 --> 00:30:49,016 that happened, that sort of 381 00:30:49,016 --> 00:30:54,146 launched me onto this determination to try and find out more 382 00:30:54,146 --> 00:30:57,316 about what happens when you-- you die, 383 00:30:57,316 --> 00:30:59,401 and what psychic research is all about. 384 00:31:04,114 --> 00:31:05,949 If you think of coincidence, 385 00:31:05,949 --> 00:31:10,913 then how extraordinary not only is that set of circumstances-- 386 00:31:11,705 --> 00:31:15,542 But my father goes to the Society and says, "I'd like a case," 387 00:31:16,418 --> 00:31:21,340 and the very first case that comes along turns out to be arguably 388 00:31:21,340 --> 00:31:24,885 the most important case in the history of paranormal activity. 389 00:31:27,221 --> 00:31:29,473 Did you-- Did you die in this house? 390 00:31:30,015 --> 00:31:32,893 Did you pass on? You did pass on in this house? 391 00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:36,146 Now why are you here? Are you unhappy? 392 00:31:36,146 --> 00:31:39,441 Now, I often wonder, you know, strange it may seem, 393 00:31:40,359 --> 00:31:42,152 it could be coincidence. 394 00:31:42,152 --> 00:31:45,364 It may not have been that his daughter's name was Janet. 395 00:31:47,741 --> 00:31:50,285 But I think he felt that, at the time-- 396 00:31:50,285 --> 00:31:53,455 like he was put in touch with us for a reason. 397 00:31:54,873 --> 00:31:57,042 You did pass on in this house? 398 00:31:57,042 --> 00:31:59,920 Now why are you here? Are you unhappy? 399 00:32:03,340 --> 00:32:05,926 Christ! It's the ghost! It's the ghost! 400 00:32:05,926 --> 00:32:07,928 Janet. Can you hear me, Janet? 401 00:32:25,153 --> 00:32:29,533 Because he'd lost his daughter, you could argue that, you know, 402 00:32:29,533 --> 00:32:32,119 he had a-- a motive, 403 00:32:32,703 --> 00:32:34,955 an incentive to try and find evidence. 404 00:32:38,125 --> 00:32:41,420 But the question of coincidences or synchronicity, 405 00:32:41,420 --> 00:32:44,506 this domain of experience is fundamental. 406 00:32:46,049 --> 00:32:48,218 If you yourself have had an experience, 407 00:32:48,218 --> 00:32:51,597 that is what's going to make you take this phenomena seriously. 408 00:32:52,931 --> 00:32:55,767 Certainly, for me, I've had experiences which-- 409 00:32:55,767 --> 00:32:59,605 which have, you know, made me feel these phenomena are g-- 410 00:32:59,605 --> 00:33:01,315 some of these phenomena are genuine. 411 00:33:08,739 --> 00:33:11,658 The whole point about psychical research is it does suggest 412 00:33:11,658 --> 00:33:15,746 that consciousness can actually directly interact with the physical world. 413 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,711 Because I had this interest in consciousness, 414 00:33:23,837 --> 00:33:28,592 {\an8}obviously things like telepathy, psychokinesis and so on 415 00:33:28,592 --> 00:33:31,386 {\an8}were phenomena which I was also interested in. 416 00:33:33,347 --> 00:33:38,018 I began to see consciousness as a much wider phenomenon, 417 00:33:39,061 --> 00:33:41,522 not just generated in the brain. 418 00:33:43,273 --> 00:33:45,108 I think the brain is in a field, 419 00:33:45,108 --> 00:33:48,070 and I think brain fields interact with each other. 420 00:33:50,030 --> 00:33:53,825 The way that I might look at the Enfield poltergeist would be 421 00:33:53,825 --> 00:33:56,453 that you have a highly disturbed adolescent. 422 00:33:56,453 --> 00:34:00,123 They've got this wonderful machine which is called their brain, 423 00:34:00,666 --> 00:34:04,628 and it can interact with the field of consciousness. 424 00:34:05,838 --> 00:34:08,590 And if it does that, then these things can arise. 425 00:34:10,967 --> 00:34:14,429 You can, by an intention, change things. 426 00:34:25,065 --> 00:34:27,734 The physical world is just a sort of, you know-- 427 00:34:27,734 --> 00:34:30,237 it's like a four-dimensional slice, in my perspective, 428 00:34:30,237 --> 00:34:32,572 of this higher-dimensional reality. 429 00:34:36,034 --> 00:34:39,161 And this higher-dimensional reality is, if you like-- 430 00:34:39,830 --> 00:34:41,706 that's the world of mind. 431 00:34:46,335 --> 00:34:49,047 The truth is, if psychic phenomena were real, 432 00:34:49,047 --> 00:34:51,425 it would be so important that we need to be sure. 433 00:34:52,842 --> 00:34:55,846 {\an8}I got into psychic research through an experience of my own, 434 00:34:55,846 --> 00:34:59,516 {\an8}a dramatic out-of-the-body- turned-mystical experience 435 00:34:59,516 --> 00:35:01,143 that I couldn't understand at all. 436 00:35:01,143 --> 00:35:04,229 This was when I was a first-year student at Oxford in 1970. 437 00:35:05,772 --> 00:35:10,527 I became so committed to the idea that my spirit 438 00:35:10,527 --> 00:35:14,239 or astral body had left that I thought, 439 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,784 "Well, I don't want to carry on with what would've been a sensible career 440 00:35:17,784 --> 00:35:20,621 in psychology and physiology," which is what I was doing, 441 00:35:21,163 --> 00:35:23,624 "I want to prove to the world that there are psychic phenomena." 442 00:35:24,958 --> 00:35:28,045 I started doing a lot of experiments on telepathy, 443 00:35:28,045 --> 00:35:30,130 clairvoyance, precognition and so on. 444 00:35:30,130 --> 00:35:31,632 According to one theory, 445 00:35:31,632 --> 00:35:35,344 PK powers fade with age and should therefore be strongest in babies. 446 00:35:36,220 --> 00:35:40,057 The computer will play a nice tune and show a smiling face, 447 00:35:40,057 --> 00:35:41,975 which Emily enjoys looking at, 448 00:35:42,601 --> 00:35:44,770 according to the output of the random number generator. 449 00:35:51,485 --> 00:35:53,820 And what happens is, if she's using her PK successfully, 450 00:35:53,820 --> 00:35:55,572 it will play more often. 451 00:35:57,908 --> 00:36:00,035 To begin with, I got some significant results 452 00:36:00,035 --> 00:36:01,703 - that you wouldn't expect by chance. - Bye. 453 00:36:06,667 --> 00:36:09,670 But then, over four to five years, 454 00:36:09,670 --> 00:36:12,256 the experimental work that I did 455 00:36:12,798 --> 00:36:16,426 led me to be ever and ever more doubtful. 456 00:36:17,886 --> 00:36:20,389 And I became more and more worried. 457 00:36:22,349 --> 00:36:24,560 "Well, how am I ever going to find these things?" 458 00:36:29,439 --> 00:36:31,650 "Well, if that doesn't work, there's always this. 459 00:36:31,650 --> 00:36:33,277 And if this doesn't work, then there's this. 460 00:36:34,444 --> 00:36:37,197 There's always another door to open. There's always another corner to turn." 461 00:36:37,197 --> 00:36:38,282 That was the feeling. 462 00:36:39,199 --> 00:36:40,742 Until one day, 463 00:36:41,660 --> 00:36:46,999 this thought came over me: What if none of it is true? 464 00:37:01,263 --> 00:37:05,851 The whole point about psychical research is that you should be skeptical. 465 00:37:07,227 --> 00:37:08,478 I mean, not disbelieving, 466 00:37:08,478 --> 00:37:12,524 but you should start off always trying to find a natural explanation. 467 00:37:13,942 --> 00:37:15,485 That's true of science in general. 468 00:37:15,485 --> 00:37:18,155 You should be skeptical in the sense that you're always open. 469 00:37:20,574 --> 00:37:26,330 The Enfield case is without doubt one of the most evidential cases 470 00:37:26,330 --> 00:37:29,166 in the sense that we've got all these recordings. 471 00:37:32,711 --> 00:37:38,300 {\an8}Inevitably, any so-called "spontaneous" case is chaotic, 472 00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:42,346 {\an8}and it is hard to come by any definite conclusion. 473 00:37:42,346 --> 00:37:47,434 {\an8}There is, as regards Enfield, a considerable amount of testimony. 474 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,815 You see things that you can't explain, you've got a tendency not to believe them. 475 00:37:53,815 --> 00:37:56,193 You've got a tendency to say, "I didn't really see 'em." 476 00:37:56,193 --> 00:37:57,277 But you know you did. 477 00:37:58,987 --> 00:38:02,366 And there was a chest of drawers moving towards the door. 478 00:38:03,617 --> 00:38:04,952 And there was banging. 479 00:38:04,952 --> 00:38:09,498 Banging on the side of the walls, and on the ceiling. On the floor. 480 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:13,377 Some of this testimony is quite impressive and reassuring, 481 00:38:14,336 --> 00:38:17,548 but there is no real evidence. 482 00:38:21,218 --> 00:38:23,720 My view is that, unfortunately, 483 00:38:24,721 --> 00:38:28,809 much of the case withers away on closer inspection. 484 00:38:30,686 --> 00:38:34,106 There was an ordinary kitchen chair moved across the room. 485 00:38:34,106 --> 00:38:38,986 Small armchair, and it jumped, was it, about four or five inches from the settee? 486 00:38:38,986 --> 00:38:41,071 and the policewoman saw it. 487 00:38:41,071 --> 00:38:44,867 It came off the floor nearly a half inch, I should say. 488 00:38:45,450 --> 00:38:49,705 It moved approximately three to four feet and then came to rest. 489 00:38:49,705 --> 00:38:54,793 Moved about, well, I expect 18 inches, something like that. Just a short way. 490 00:38:57,713 --> 00:39:00,424 Our brain's main thing they're doing all the time 491 00:39:00,424 --> 00:39:02,217 is recognizing patterns. 492 00:39:08,307 --> 00:39:10,184 The more we understand about the brain, 493 00:39:10,184 --> 00:39:13,604 the less room there is for belief in paranormal phenomena. 494 00:39:16,899 --> 00:39:21,361 Human bodies are machines, but somehow we want to be more than that. 495 00:39:23,197 --> 00:39:26,617 People want to believe there's more than this world. 496 00:39:29,536 --> 00:39:33,832 But as I entered the front room, something-- I think it was a LEGO brick-- 497 00:39:34,333 --> 00:39:38,545 came from behind me very low down and very fast and hit the wall in front of me. 498 00:39:38,545 --> 00:39:42,132 - I went straight toward... - Looking back on it now... 499 00:39:42,132 --> 00:39:44,510 - ...and stood with my back to it... - ...my own impression 500 00:39:45,344 --> 00:39:48,055 is that, you know, there's so many accounts, 501 00:39:49,598 --> 00:39:51,016 so many witnesses. 502 00:39:53,101 --> 00:39:55,938 One can't just dismiss all those and say it was all fraud or imagination. 503 00:39:58,190 --> 00:40:01,026 {\an8}What's so frustrating is we still don't know. 504 00:40:01,026 --> 00:40:02,861 {\an8}Not just in the Enfield case, 505 00:40:02,861 --> 00:40:06,281 {\an8}it applies to almost everything in psychical research. 506 00:40:06,281 --> 00:40:11,787 But that's precisely what makes psych-- the subject so tantalizing. 507 00:40:16,250 --> 00:40:21,547 How would you distinguish between what is nonsense and what is-- 508 00:40:21,547 --> 00:40:22,965 what is true? 509 00:40:30,430 --> 00:40:32,683 It has been said many times 510 00:40:33,934 --> 00:40:37,771 by skeptics and critics of psychic research 511 00:40:38,772 --> 00:40:43,443 that my interest in the subject was motivated by grief. 512 00:40:45,362 --> 00:40:49,366 And that this grief distorted my sense of reality. 513 00:40:55,247 --> 00:40:58,458 Their conclusions are entirely mistaken. 514 00:41:00,586 --> 00:41:06,300 The Enfield case proved to my satisfaction and beyond a shadow of doubt, 515 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:13,056 that the realities of life and death are not what they appear to be. 516 00:41:32,284 --> 00:41:35,579 Bill, I want you to tell me 517 00:41:36,705 --> 00:41:40,083 whether you remember what happened to you when you died. 518 00:41:42,002 --> 00:41:44,379 Just before you died and just after you died. 519 00:41:45,255 --> 00:41:48,717 Bill, who was the voice-- this is the ghost-- 520 00:41:49,801 --> 00:41:51,053 he described how he died. 521 00:42:09,905 --> 00:42:13,200 {\an8}Some years later, my father received a telephone call. 522 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,079 {\an8}And it was from a man who said he knew the voice. 523 00:42:20,332 --> 00:42:22,793 - Hello. - Hello, Maurice. Nice to meet you again. 524 00:42:22,793 --> 00:42:24,461 - Nice seeing you again. - Come in. 525 00:42:24,461 --> 00:42:30,926 This chap identified himself as the son of William Wilkins-- Bill. 526 00:42:32,386 --> 00:42:35,180 Bill, I want you to tell me 527 00:42:35,180 --> 00:42:38,767 whether you remember what happened to you when you died. 528 00:42:40,519 --> 00:42:42,938 Just before you died and just after you died. 529 00:42:51,488 --> 00:42:56,118 Days before I died, I went blind. 530 00:42:58,036 --> 00:43:01,915 Then I had an hemorrhage, and I fell asleep, 531 00:43:01,915 --> 00:43:06,044 and I died in a chair in a corner downstairs. 532 00:43:07,963 --> 00:43:10,549 - Is-- That's right? - That's exactly true. 533 00:43:10,549 --> 00:43:12,843 - That is exactly true, yes. - Exactly as he did. 534 00:43:12,843 --> 00:43:16,221 And we're-- Of course, at that time, we certainly didn't know how he died. 535 00:43:16,221 --> 00:43:18,307 The only thing we knew at that time 536 00:43:18,307 --> 00:43:20,350 - was that your father had gone blind. - Yeah. 537 00:43:20,350 --> 00:43:22,144 - We didn't know anything else. - No, no. 538 00:43:22,144 --> 00:43:25,230 - But it describes exactly how he died. - That's exactly what happened. 539 00:43:25,230 --> 00:43:27,858 He died in the chair, down in the living room. 540 00:43:28,525 --> 00:43:31,361 My mum popped out to the shop for ten minutes. 541 00:43:31,361 --> 00:43:32,863 When she came back, he was dead. 542 00:43:34,489 --> 00:43:35,490 Incredible. 543 00:43:36,366 --> 00:43:39,995 - That's exact-- - And here we are, another confirmation. 544 00:43:42,497 --> 00:43:43,582 Very interesting. 545 00:43:44,625 --> 00:43:47,669 See, the sort of things like knocking on the wall. 546 00:43:48,253 --> 00:43:50,714 The three knocks, always three knocks on the wall. 547 00:43:51,381 --> 00:43:53,258 It was just a strange knock on the wall. 548 00:43:57,971 --> 00:44:00,432 During the war they were air raid wardens together. 549 00:44:00,432 --> 00:44:04,186 And if ever the sirens went off, one would knock to the other one. 550 00:44:04,186 --> 00:44:05,604 And then they'd meet out the back, 551 00:44:05,604 --> 00:44:08,899 "Are you ready, Fred?" "Yeah." "Okay, see you outside in a moment." 552 00:44:08,899 --> 00:44:12,319 And then they'd go off. That's how they used to communicate. 553 00:44:12,819 --> 00:44:14,488 Rather than go knocking on the door, 554 00:44:14,488 --> 00:44:17,032 there'd be three taps on the wall every time. 555 00:44:17,032 --> 00:44:18,116 Amazing. 556 00:44:27,292 --> 00:44:30,087 "Spoon bent at breakfast by Janet." 557 00:44:41,098 --> 00:44:42,933 These are things. These are just objects. 558 00:44:42,933 --> 00:44:47,187 And without context, they don't mean anything. 559 00:44:49,231 --> 00:44:51,900 Except it represents, you know, this-- 560 00:44:52,442 --> 00:44:54,653 such an important part of my father's life, 561 00:44:54,653 --> 00:44:57,322 and the time and effort that went into it. 562 00:45:01,952 --> 00:45:05,747 For me, the whole experience tells me 563 00:45:05,747 --> 00:45:10,377 that there are things above and beyond our senses. 564 00:45:12,671 --> 00:45:17,718 When someone tells me their story-- and so many people have stories 565 00:45:18,218 --> 00:45:23,724 of things that have happened to them-- I don't dismiss them anymore. I listen. 566 00:45:27,352 --> 00:45:29,730 - Rolling? - Yeah. Do I need a seat belt? 567 00:45:29,730 --> 00:45:31,440 - It doesn't need a seat belt. - No? 568 00:45:35,611 --> 00:45:41,366 The last 29 years of his life, he was a paranormal investigator, 569 00:45:42,993 --> 00:45:48,290 which I know he enjoyed probably more than any other time in his life. 570 00:45:51,126 --> 00:45:56,089 We went to "intraview" Britain's leading expert on ghosts. Check it. 571 00:45:56,089 --> 00:46:01,970 I is here with Britain's number one parapsychologist, Maurice Grosse. 572 00:46:01,970 --> 00:46:07,351 And we is here, actually in a haunted house, and I is well scared. 573 00:46:07,351 --> 00:46:08,602 I's bricking it. 574 00:46:08,602 --> 00:46:11,230 How long has this house been haunted? 575 00:46:11,230 --> 00:46:12,523 - This house? - Aye. 576 00:46:12,523 --> 00:46:16,568 This-- No. You-- We got it all wrong. This is not a haunted house. 577 00:46:16,568 --> 00:46:17,903 - This-- - This is my house... 578 00:46:19,196 --> 00:46:20,447 You investigate things. 579 00:46:20,447 --> 00:46:22,199 Now, one of the most difficult things 580 00:46:22,199 --> 00:46:24,117 that you ever did was the Enfield poltergeist. 581 00:46:24,117 --> 00:46:25,452 What things did you see? 582 00:46:25,452 --> 00:46:29,164 - Well, things flying about. We had-- - What things? 583 00:46:29,164 --> 00:46:33,043 Big furniture, small furniture. In fact, the settee turned upside down 584 00:46:33,043 --> 00:46:36,046 and flew across the room right in front of me as I walked into the room. 585 00:46:36,046 --> 00:46:38,006 - Had you been drinking? - No. 586 00:46:38,507 --> 00:46:39,550 Too funny. 587 00:46:43,846 --> 00:46:45,097 - Hello, Uri. - Hello, Maurice. 588 00:46:45,097 --> 00:46:46,807 - How are you? Nice to see you. - Hi, how are you? 589 00:46:46,807 --> 00:46:48,684 - Lovely to see you. - You're filming, huh? 590 00:46:48,684 --> 00:46:49,768 - Yes. - Come on in. 591 00:46:49,768 --> 00:46:51,520 {\an8}- Ready? - Yes. 592 00:46:52,312 --> 00:46:53,397 {\an8}Oh, my God. 593 00:46:55,774 --> 00:46:57,609 Oh, goodness me. 594 00:46:57,609 --> 00:47:00,195 5,000 bent spoons and forks on it. 595 00:47:00,195 --> 00:47:02,906 Many of them were bent with my abilities, my powers. 596 00:47:02,906 --> 00:47:04,449 Oh, heavens. 597 00:47:04,449 --> 00:47:06,660 See, it brought a smile on your face. 598 00:47:07,244 --> 00:47:09,162 I'll say. I'll say. 599 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,920 Whatever we know about life, about the world, 600 00:47:18,964 --> 00:47:20,465 we still haven't cracked it. 601 00:47:20,465 --> 00:47:21,884 Here we go. 602 00:47:22,759 --> 00:47:26,722 There's still things that we-- we probably won't ever find out. 603 00:47:28,807 --> 00:47:30,601 Dad tried to find out. 604 00:47:31,435 --> 00:47:35,939 He was a lovely dad. He was a lovely dad. 605 00:47:38,984 --> 00:47:42,946 And though the case was over, he used to come once a month. 606 00:47:44,072 --> 00:47:46,241 This evening should be very interesting indeed. 607 00:47:46,241 --> 00:47:48,952 I'm going to see Margaret and her mother, 608 00:47:49,453 --> 00:47:54,041 of the Enfield poltergeist case, now nearly 18 years ago. 609 00:47:55,334 --> 00:47:59,296 He'd have boxes of Maltesers for us each. 610 00:47:59,296 --> 00:48:04,426 Well, here I am at this famous house in Enfield. 611 00:48:05,052 --> 00:48:11,642 And here you see Margaret and her mother. 612 00:48:11,642 --> 00:48:14,645 He'd talk to my mum. She would make him a cup of tea, 613 00:48:14,645 --> 00:48:18,190 and he would ask how she's been and how we all are. 614 00:48:18,190 --> 00:48:20,150 You remember the day I first came? 615 00:48:20,651 --> 00:48:22,986 - Yes, I remember, Mr. Grosse. - Yeah, we do remember that, Mr. Grosse. 616 00:48:22,986 --> 00:48:25,531 - And you was on the case ever since then. - Yeah. 617 00:48:25,531 --> 00:48:26,823 You know, it wasn't like, 618 00:48:26,823 --> 00:48:30,202 "Now the poltergeist is finished, I'm just not gonna come." 619 00:48:30,202 --> 00:48:31,954 He made the effort, 620 00:48:31,954 --> 00:48:35,707 and he continued to be like a family friend as well. 621 00:48:44,925 --> 00:48:48,637 I used to go back regularly just to look at that house. 622 00:48:51,014 --> 00:48:55,394 About two years ago, we went in the car, and my husband drove us. 623 00:48:55,394 --> 00:48:58,397 We got the feeling no one was really in there. 624 00:48:59,940 --> 00:49:03,569 We just had a look, and then all this flashing started in the living room. 625 00:49:04,152 --> 00:49:08,031 All the lights started going on and off, flashing on and off. 626 00:49:10,450 --> 00:49:15,747 I felt like maybe something had recognized me. 627 00:49:25,257 --> 00:49:26,842 I don't wanna go back there now. 628 00:49:29,428 --> 00:49:30,929 I don't wanna go back there. 629 00:49:44,443 --> 00:49:48,238 I was glad to get out of there. I left home as soon as I could. 630 00:49:52,284 --> 00:49:53,368 Where is she? 631 00:49:59,082 --> 00:50:03,504 It's something that not many people experience. 632 00:50:04,379 --> 00:50:09,676 And I've had to get strong from a pretty early age and build on that. 633 00:50:11,178 --> 00:50:12,763 Try and explain to me... 634 00:50:12,763 --> 00:50:14,389 I was in bed, right... 635 00:50:17,476 --> 00:50:21,104 It used to upset me when they used to say, "She's faking it." 636 00:50:23,398 --> 00:50:25,275 Like this. Like this. 637 00:50:26,026 --> 00:50:29,821 I know what I experienced, and I know that it was real. 638 00:50:32,241 --> 00:50:33,075 Yeah. 639 00:50:33,075 --> 00:50:36,828 It had such a devastating effect on me. 640 00:50:39,456 --> 00:50:41,291 I've never really said this to anyone, 641 00:50:41,291 --> 00:50:44,378 but you never really feel completely yourself. 642 00:50:45,045 --> 00:50:47,422 What is "myself," you know? 643 00:51:15,868 --> 00:51:17,661 It's something you never forget. 644 00:51:28,172 --> 00:51:29,464 Something that you'll just think of, 645 00:51:29,464 --> 00:51:31,925 and it'll just come flowing back, you know? 646 00:51:31,925 --> 00:51:33,844 You never feel like you're free of it. 647 00:51:54,990 --> 00:51:58,827 I don't like to say this, you know, but I feel it even now. 648 00:52:03,248 --> 00:52:04,833 It's never left me. 55783

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