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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:05,130 --> 00:00:07,380 Now, listen to this one. 2 00:00:07,382 --> 00:00:11,392 "The way scum like you helps people like David Koresh, 3 00:00:11,386 --> 00:00:14,506 I hope all your children die of, uh..." 4 00:00:14,514 --> 00:00:15,894 sheesh. 5 00:00:15,890 --> 00:00:17,640 Okay. Let's stay focused here, can we? 6 00:00:17,642 --> 00:00:19,522 Why do you insist on reading that crap? 7 00:00:19,519 --> 00:00:22,229 In case one of these maniacs puts a bullet in my head 8 00:00:22,230 --> 00:00:23,690 like they all say they're gonna. 9 00:00:23,690 --> 00:00:25,360 Give the cops a good place to start. 10 00:00:25,358 --> 00:00:27,028 Yeah, I'm not sure they'd try too hard 11 00:00:27,027 --> 00:00:28,697 to solve a case of the cop-killer defenders. 12 00:00:28,695 --> 00:00:30,405 - Oh, yeah. - That's a dark thought. 13 00:00:30,405 --> 00:00:31,905 - Well... - Shouldn't we be getting 14 00:00:31,906 --> 00:00:33,576 - security or something? - Don't worry. 15 00:00:33,575 --> 00:00:35,825 I'll protect you from those big mean letter writers. 16 00:00:35,827 --> 00:00:37,367 See, guys? Nothing to worry about. 17 00:00:37,370 --> 00:00:39,000 Jocelyn's got our backs. 18 00:00:38,997 --> 00:00:40,497 Let's get back to it. 19 00:00:40,498 --> 00:00:42,078 Wait. 20 00:00:42,083 --> 00:00:43,753 - Fan mail? - What do you think... 21 00:00:43,752 --> 00:00:45,342 - Really? - Yeah. 22 00:00:45,336 --> 00:00:47,876 - ...about that? -"Dear fine sirs... 23 00:00:49,632 --> 00:00:52,592 I have been very..." all caps, 24 00:00:52,594 --> 00:00:56,104 "...interested in your case defending those Davidians. 25 00:00:56,097 --> 00:01:00,227 There are lots of people like me watching to see how this goes. 26 00:01:00,226 --> 00:01:02,726 Thank you for being such good patriots." 27 00:01:02,729 --> 00:01:05,689 Well, this is nice, isn't it? 28 00:01:05,690 --> 00:01:07,940 Let's see. I'm going bankrupt. 29 00:01:07,942 --> 00:01:10,072 My wife who I haven't seen in over a month 30 00:01:10,070 --> 00:01:13,110 just filed for divorce. I'm living in squalor. 31 00:01:13,114 --> 00:01:15,584 I'm getting about three hours of sleep every night 32 00:01:15,575 --> 00:01:17,235 to fight a losing case for a bunch of people 33 00:01:17,243 --> 00:01:18,913 who don't even like me, 34 00:01:18,912 --> 00:01:22,582 but when I hear the praises of adoring fans 35 00:01:22,582 --> 00:01:24,422 like Tim McVeigh, 36 00:01:24,417 --> 00:01:26,957 makes it all worth it, doesn't it? 37 00:01:26,961 --> 00:01:29,051 Now, can we get back to work? 38 00:01:29,047 --> 00:01:32,427 tense music plays 39 00:01:46,439 --> 00:01:49,979 theme music plays 40 00:02:48,918 --> 00:02:51,378 You say you love America, 41 00:02:51,379 --> 00:02:54,339 but would you die for it? 42 00:02:55,425 --> 00:02:58,465 Would you kill for it? 43 00:02:58,469 --> 00:03:01,349 I mean, some things are worth fighting for. 44 00:03:02,473 --> 00:03:04,143 I wanna talk today 45 00:03:04,142 --> 00:03:06,732 about making ourselves ready, 46 00:03:06,728 --> 00:03:10,688 emotionally steeling ourselves 47 00:03:10,690 --> 00:03:13,030 for the coming war. 48 00:03:14,903 --> 00:03:19,703 The war against White America! 49 00:03:19,699 --> 00:03:21,869 I want you to picture 50 00:03:21,868 --> 00:03:24,828 what that's gonna be like. Picture... 51 00:03:24,829 --> 00:03:27,869 the tanks rolling up our drives, 52 00:03:27,874 --> 00:03:30,214 adrenaline coursing through your body. 53 00:03:30,710 --> 00:03:34,170 I want you to picture yourself with your gun in your hand 54 00:03:34,172 --> 00:03:36,222 and your kids behind you. 55 00:03:36,216 --> 00:03:37,756 And I want you to picture that again, 56 00:03:37,759 --> 00:03:40,219 and again, and again 57 00:03:40,220 --> 00:03:44,100 until it become real to you. 58 00:03:44,098 --> 00:03:46,348 So that when the time comes, 59 00:03:46,351 --> 00:03:49,021 you won't hesitate to pull the trigger. 60 00:03:51,731 --> 00:03:54,571 Because having the nerve to pull the trigger 61 00:03:54,567 --> 00:03:56,737 is precisely what... 62 00:03:56,736 --> 00:03:58,906 His granddaddy founded the Nazi party. 63 00:03:58,905 --> 00:04:00,945 - No shit. - ...protect our home... 64 00:04:00,949 --> 00:04:02,779 I'd steer clear of 'em. 65 00:04:02,784 --> 00:04:04,584 He's not the kind of guy you wanna mess with. 66 00:04:04,577 --> 00:04:08,577 ...to protect our God-fearing way of life! 67 00:04:23,346 --> 00:04:26,556 We've heard it said that David Koresh believed 68 00:04:26,557 --> 00:04:29,097 he was preparing, 69 00:04:29,102 --> 00:04:31,942 planning for a great war. 70 00:04:33,356 --> 00:04:34,766 Did he ever express those beliefs 71 00:04:34,774 --> 00:04:37,114 when he purchased these guns from you? 72 00:04:37,110 --> 00:04:38,990 I didn't deal with David, 73 00:04:38,987 --> 00:04:41,407 but I was aware of the philosophy, yes. 74 00:04:42,699 --> 00:04:44,579 Who did you deal with? 75 00:04:44,575 --> 00:04:47,285 I dealt almost exclusively with Paul Fatta. 76 00:04:47,787 --> 00:04:51,167 And you're referring to defendant Fatta 77 00:04:51,165 --> 00:04:53,325 seated behind counsel over here? 78 00:04:53,334 --> 00:04:54,794 Yes. 79 00:04:54,794 --> 00:04:56,464 Did Mr. Fatta seem knowledgeable 80 00:04:56,462 --> 00:04:57,672 when it came to guns? 81 00:04:57,672 --> 00:04:59,132 Inside and out. 82 00:04:59,132 --> 00:05:02,512 And how many guns did Paul Fatta 83 00:05:02,510 --> 00:05:04,010 purchase from you? 84 00:05:05,179 --> 00:05:07,019 About $90,000 worth. 85 00:05:10,852 --> 00:05:12,852 Exhibit 103. 86 00:05:13,688 --> 00:05:16,688 Can you tell us what this is 87 00:05:16,691 --> 00:05:18,861 and where you found it? 88 00:05:18,860 --> 00:05:21,280 We found it in the compound, 89 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:22,529 in the chapel. 90 00:05:22,530 --> 00:05:25,490 And what type of weapon is this? 91 00:05:26,534 --> 00:05:28,164 It's an M-16 rifle. 92 00:05:28,161 --> 00:05:31,001 I carried one in Vietnam 93 00:05:30,997 --> 00:05:33,367 for 11 months and seven days. 94 00:05:33,374 --> 00:05:36,134 Because it's a military weapon 95 00:05:36,127 --> 00:05:37,837 built for war? 96 00:05:37,837 --> 00:05:39,007 That's right. 97 00:05:39,005 --> 00:05:41,295 Now, Ranger Boak, 98 00:05:41,299 --> 00:05:45,349 you've testified about finding a lot of evidence here. 99 00:05:45,345 --> 00:05:47,175 Tell me this. 100 00:05:47,180 --> 00:05:49,520 Did you also happen to locate the building's front doors? 101 00:05:49,515 --> 00:05:51,015 No, sir. 102 00:05:52,226 --> 00:05:53,556 Help me out here. 103 00:05:54,729 --> 00:05:59,189 You were able to find this BIC lighter 104 00:05:59,192 --> 00:06:01,742 but not two seven-foot doors? 105 00:06:01,736 --> 00:06:03,526 No. 106 00:06:03,529 --> 00:06:04,699 Why not? 107 00:06:06,074 --> 00:06:08,084 It must've burned with the rest of the building. 108 00:06:09,452 --> 00:06:12,582 Burned? Both front doors? 109 00:06:12,830 --> 00:06:14,170 That's right. 110 00:06:15,792 --> 00:06:17,592 Uh-hmm. 111 00:06:17,585 --> 00:06:19,745 But in the months leading up to the ATF's arrival 112 00:06:19,754 --> 00:06:21,514 at Mount Carmel, 113 00:06:21,506 --> 00:06:24,926 what did you observe regarding their inventory? 114 00:06:24,926 --> 00:06:26,586 We observed a dramatic increase 115 00:06:26,594 --> 00:06:28,104 in their stockpile of weapons. 116 00:06:28,096 --> 00:06:31,926 So, they were buying guns 117 00:06:31,933 --> 00:06:33,563 but not selling them? 118 00:06:33,559 --> 00:06:34,729 Correct. 119 00:06:35,895 --> 00:06:37,855 I only have two questions. 120 00:06:37,855 --> 00:06:40,525 In your years of observation and research, 121 00:06:40,525 --> 00:06:44,395 did the Davidians ever obtain a weapon illegally? 122 00:06:45,571 --> 00:06:46,741 Not to my knowledge. 123 00:06:46,739 --> 00:06:48,029 Okay. 124 00:06:48,032 --> 00:06:50,282 And just one more thing. 125 00:06:50,284 --> 00:06:53,914 In your examination of all the evidence, 126 00:06:53,913 --> 00:06:56,253 I don't reckon you saw those pesky missing front doors, 127 00:06:56,249 --> 00:06:57,919 did you? 128 00:06:59,502 --> 00:07:00,962 Lieutenant Caldwell, 129 00:07:00,962 --> 00:07:04,052 could you tell us what the Mag Bag was? 130 00:07:04,048 --> 00:07:06,128 The Mag Bag was a small tract of land 131 00:07:06,134 --> 00:07:08,974 located on Farm Road outside of Waco. 132 00:07:08,970 --> 00:07:11,930 It was where Mr. Koresh and Mr. Fatta received shipments 133 00:07:11,931 --> 00:07:14,811 of weapons, ammunition, gun parts. 134 00:07:14,809 --> 00:07:16,599 And had you had any previous interactions 135 00:07:16,602 --> 00:07:17,942 with David Koresh or Paul Fatta 136 00:07:17,937 --> 00:07:19,807 that would lead you to believe... 137 00:07:19,814 --> 00:07:22,114 - Objection! Objection! Approach? - ...that was the possibility? 138 00:07:23,317 --> 00:07:24,817 Judge, this is a transparent attempt 139 00:07:24,819 --> 00:07:26,779 to bring up my client, Paul Fatta's past, 140 00:07:26,779 --> 00:07:28,279 which is entirely out of bounds. 141 00:07:28,281 --> 00:07:30,121 It's germane to this case, Your Honor. 142 00:07:30,116 --> 00:07:31,946 - Okay. - Mr. Fatta and Mr. Koresh 143 00:07:31,951 --> 00:07:34,621 both have a previous charge of conspiracy to commit murder. 144 00:07:34,620 --> 00:07:36,410 And the fact that he and his compatriots 145 00:07:36,414 --> 00:07:38,464 tried to kill a man in cold blood 146 00:07:38,458 --> 00:07:41,498 absolutely informed the ATF's decision-making process... 147 00:07:41,502 --> 00:07:43,342 You mean your decision-making process. 148 00:07:43,337 --> 00:07:45,337 ...when they decided to stage a dynamic entry into Mount Carmel. 149 00:07:45,339 --> 00:07:46,839 Paul Fatta wasn't even there when the tanks rolled in. 150 00:07:46,841 --> 00:07:48,341 He wasn't there a single day of the standoff. 151 00:07:48,342 --> 00:07:49,762 It doesn't matter if he wasn't there. 152 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:50,800 And if Mr. Johnston wants to prove 153 00:07:50,803 --> 00:07:52,183 that there was some conspiracy, 154 00:07:52,180 --> 00:07:53,810 he should do it with relevant evidence 155 00:07:53,806 --> 00:07:55,426 and not unfounded accusations from the '80s. 156 00:07:55,433 --> 00:07:56,483 Mr. Fatta is a defendant in this-- 157 00:07:56,476 --> 00:07:57,636 Stop. 158 00:07:58,102 --> 00:08:00,312 I have already ruled on this, Mr. Johnston. 159 00:08:00,313 --> 00:08:01,693 Yes, Your Honor. 160 00:08:01,689 --> 00:08:03,189 The defendant's previous charges 161 00:08:03,191 --> 00:08:05,941 are not in the purview of this case. 162 00:08:05,943 --> 00:08:07,113 Objection sustained. 163 00:08:07,111 --> 00:08:09,111 Thank you. Thank you. 164 00:08:09,113 --> 00:08:11,203 You can't keep all your skeletons in the closet. 165 00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:13,029 Neither can you, fucko. 166 00:08:17,371 --> 00:08:18,831 No further questions. 167 00:08:20,249 --> 00:08:21,329 Your witness. 168 00:08:24,045 --> 00:08:26,005 I only have one question. 169 00:08:26,506 --> 00:08:28,506 You wouldn't happen to know where the front doors 170 00:08:28,508 --> 00:08:31,178 from Mount Carmel ended up, would you? 171 00:08:32,762 --> 00:08:34,222 No? Okay. 172 00:08:35,515 --> 00:08:38,015 dramatic music plays 173 00:08:54,075 --> 00:08:55,695 Can I do for you, George? 174 00:08:57,453 --> 00:09:00,043 We're gonna settle this now. 175 00:09:00,039 --> 00:09:01,249 Settle what? 176 00:09:01,707 --> 00:09:03,537 Who's the real prophet. 177 00:09:05,294 --> 00:09:07,554 We're gonna see who can bring her back. 178 00:09:07,547 --> 00:09:08,877 Bring who back? 179 00:09:10,424 --> 00:09:11,684 My mother. 180 00:09:13,052 --> 00:09:15,932 Your lies put her in the ground. 181 00:09:15,930 --> 00:09:17,720 I just took her out. 182 00:09:17,723 --> 00:09:19,233 What are you talking about, George? 183 00:09:19,225 --> 00:09:20,595 What do you mean you took her out? 184 00:09:20,601 --> 00:09:22,061 I dug her up. 185 00:09:25,273 --> 00:09:27,943 You dug up Lois's body? 186 00:09:27,942 --> 00:09:29,192 Why would you do that? 187 00:09:30,987 --> 00:09:33,907 Whoever can raise my momma from the dead... 188 00:09:34,407 --> 00:09:37,447 will be the next true prophet of Mount Carmel. 189 00:09:42,290 --> 00:09:43,790 Sheriff, 190 00:09:43,791 --> 00:09:45,541 what do you mean you can't do anything? 191 00:09:45,543 --> 00:09:47,753 George dug up his own dead mother! 192 00:09:47,753 --> 00:09:50,133 - It's an abomination! - Look, Vernon. 193 00:09:50,131 --> 00:09:52,431 I drove by Mount Carmel after you called. 194 00:09:52,425 --> 00:09:54,085 I didn't see any dug-up bodies. 195 00:09:54,093 --> 00:09:55,723 George told me himself! 196 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,970 Yeah, George says a lot of crazy things. 197 00:09:57,972 --> 00:10:00,222 Unless you have actual evidence 198 00:10:00,224 --> 00:10:02,774 of corpse abuse or some other crime, 199 00:10:02,768 --> 00:10:04,728 there's not much that I can do. 200 00:10:05,187 --> 00:10:07,107 Maybe the best course of action is for y'all 201 00:10:07,106 --> 00:10:08,646 to stay away from Mount Carmel. 202 00:10:08,649 --> 00:10:10,779 Just leave George Roden be. 203 00:10:10,776 --> 00:10:13,146 He's the one that called me! 204 00:10:13,571 --> 00:10:15,621 I think he's fixing to come after us. 205 00:10:15,615 --> 00:10:17,275 Well, then you might wanna think 206 00:10:17,283 --> 00:10:19,123 about getting something to defend yourself with. 207 00:10:25,333 --> 00:10:27,133 Mr. Cogdell. Mr. Cogdell. 208 00:10:27,126 --> 00:10:29,796 Do you think it's the doors that prove who shot first? 209 00:10:29,795 --> 00:10:31,255 I do. 210 00:10:31,756 --> 00:10:34,836 But, but those doors are also a symbol 211 00:10:34,842 --> 00:10:36,512 for all the questionable behavior 212 00:10:36,510 --> 00:10:38,640 the Federal government has taken part in. 213 00:10:40,014 --> 00:10:42,024 Listen, listen. 214 00:10:42,016 --> 00:10:44,806 The ATF shows up with more cameras 215 00:10:44,810 --> 00:10:48,310 than a Hollywood blockbuster, but there's no footage. 216 00:10:48,314 --> 00:10:51,484 They lose power at the morgue so no autopsies can be done. 217 00:10:51,484 --> 00:10:53,824 Christ, they bulldozed the whole crime scene 218 00:10:53,819 --> 00:10:55,989 and then they bleached it for good measure. 219 00:10:56,447 --> 00:10:59,367 This is what happens when you have the architect 220 00:10:59,367 --> 00:11:00,527 of a government raid, 221 00:11:00,534 --> 00:11:03,004 the man who demanded the ATF 222 00:11:02,995 --> 00:11:06,455 go in with a hard entry, also prosecuting the same case. 223 00:11:06,457 --> 00:11:07,957 You saying there's some sort 224 00:11:07,958 --> 00:11:09,498 - of government cover-up? - No, I'm just saying 225 00:11:09,502 --> 00:11:11,842 that Bill Johnston has a vested interest 226 00:11:11,837 --> 00:11:14,797 in convicting these people, that's for damn sure. 227 00:11:14,799 --> 00:11:18,179 I heard you with the press saying I'm corrupt. 228 00:11:18,177 --> 00:11:19,677 That's way out of bounds. 229 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:21,509 It's called zealously defending my clients. 230 00:11:21,514 --> 00:11:22,854 You can't win with the facts, 231 00:11:22,848 --> 00:11:24,018 so you're trying to turn this thing 232 00:11:24,016 --> 00:11:25,846 into a government cover-up, 233 00:11:25,851 --> 00:11:27,561 and you're dragging my name through the mud to do it, 234 00:11:27,561 --> 00:11:29,481 like I had some ulterior motive. 235 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,020 I sanctioned that raid 236 00:11:31,023 --> 00:11:33,533 because I was trying to save those kids. 237 00:11:33,526 --> 00:11:36,526 Save those kids with a forcible entry? 238 00:11:37,029 --> 00:11:39,659 I'm doing my job the best way I know how. 239 00:11:39,657 --> 00:11:41,527 Now, you don't agree with it? Fine. 240 00:11:41,534 --> 00:11:43,374 But let's fight fair, Dan. 241 00:11:43,369 --> 00:11:45,199 You want me to fight fair? 242 00:11:45,204 --> 00:11:46,914 You've got the public, the press, 243 00:11:46,914 --> 00:11:49,084 and the United States government behind you. 244 00:11:49,083 --> 00:11:51,423 And all I've got is a booth at the Polo Lounge. 245 00:11:51,961 --> 00:11:55,551 I'm not gonna play with one-hand tied behind my back. 246 00:11:55,548 --> 00:11:59,088 You want me to shut up? Find those doors. 247 00:12:01,345 --> 00:12:04,425 tense music plays 248 00:12:23,993 --> 00:12:25,953 Listen, when the prosecutor starts picking fights 249 00:12:25,953 --> 00:12:27,753 with you in the hall, it means you're doing something right. 250 00:12:27,747 --> 00:12:29,747 Hmm. 251 00:12:29,749 --> 00:12:31,749 Yeah, yeah, except... 252 00:12:31,751 --> 00:12:33,211 Except what? 253 00:12:33,210 --> 00:12:35,050 You've been watching the forewoman? 254 00:12:35,045 --> 00:12:36,125 Um... 255 00:12:37,757 --> 00:12:40,377 juror number six? 256 00:12:40,384 --> 00:12:42,264 She's the poison juror. 257 00:12:42,261 --> 00:12:44,761 I can just tell. She's itching to say the G-word. 258 00:12:44,764 --> 00:12:47,104 Yeah. Well, that's why we have 11 more 259 00:12:47,099 --> 00:12:48,639 because all you need is one. 260 00:12:49,226 --> 00:12:51,766 Jocelyn, you'd acquit our clients, wouldn't you? 261 00:12:51,771 --> 00:12:53,481 Hell no. 262 00:12:53,481 --> 00:12:54,941 They're guilty as shit. 263 00:12:54,940 --> 00:12:56,570 Just like their defense lawyers. 264 00:12:56,567 --> 00:12:58,607 Ow. Ow. 265 00:12:58,611 --> 00:13:00,741 Number six, she's the top dog. 266 00:13:00,738 --> 00:13:02,448 - She could sway the rest. - Listen, don't-- 267 00:13:02,448 --> 00:13:04,908 don't worry about number six. I'm gonna focus on her. 268 00:13:04,909 --> 00:13:06,289 I'm gonna make her feel like the prettiest, 269 00:13:06,285 --> 00:13:07,785 most special juror in the world. 270 00:13:09,121 --> 00:13:10,791 Ask Jocelyn if I can't sweet-talk 271 00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:12,080 the legs off a chair. 272 00:13:12,082 --> 00:13:13,422 Dan, if you were half as charming 273 00:13:13,417 --> 00:13:14,667 as you think you are, 274 00:13:14,668 --> 00:13:15,958 you'd be the best lawyer on earth. 275 00:13:15,961 --> 00:13:17,511 Ooh. 276 00:13:17,505 --> 00:13:19,005 Is that flirting? Is she flirting? 277 00:13:19,006 --> 00:13:21,756 - No, that is not--- - Jesus, Gordon! 278 00:13:21,759 --> 00:13:24,139 God. God! I gotta put a bell on you. 279 00:13:24,136 --> 00:13:25,806 Think I may have an answer for you 280 00:13:25,805 --> 00:13:28,925 on those front doors. 281 00:13:28,933 --> 00:13:33,313 Whoa. Is this Mount Carmel? 282 00:13:33,312 --> 00:13:35,312 What is this, Gordon? What am I looking at here? 283 00:13:35,314 --> 00:13:38,034 This was taken at 3:55 p.m., 284 00:13:38,025 --> 00:13:40,945 a couple hours after the fire started. 285 00:13:40,945 --> 00:13:44,105 And these are FBI agents 286 00:13:44,114 --> 00:13:46,664 loading something into a truck. 287 00:13:46,659 --> 00:13:48,489 Something about the size and shape of a door. 288 00:13:48,494 --> 00:13:50,504 Yeah, which was so daggone important 289 00:13:50,496 --> 00:13:51,996 that they had to grab it 290 00:13:51,997 --> 00:13:53,957 while the building was still smoldering. 291 00:13:56,877 --> 00:13:58,207 You crazy son of a bitch. 292 00:13:58,212 --> 00:13:59,842 - This is it. - That's it. 293 00:14:00,297 --> 00:14:01,967 You think these are the front doors 294 00:14:01,966 --> 00:14:03,006 being loaded into this truck? 295 00:14:03,008 --> 00:14:04,468 I do, Your Honor. 296 00:14:04,468 --> 00:14:06,298 This is absurd. 297 00:14:06,303 --> 00:14:07,853 That's not real evidence. 298 00:14:07,847 --> 00:14:09,717 You can hardly see anything in that photo. 299 00:14:09,723 --> 00:14:10,853 I could say they're loading Bigfoot 300 00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:12,310 into the back of that truck. 301 00:14:12,309 --> 00:14:13,689 - It's pretty blurry, Counselor. - Well, 302 00:14:13,686 --> 00:14:15,306 uh, either way, the fact that the FBI 303 00:14:15,312 --> 00:14:16,812 was loading anything into the back of a U-Haul 304 00:14:16,814 --> 00:14:18,484 while a building is still smoldering 305 00:14:18,482 --> 00:14:20,532 is information the jury deserves to know. 306 00:14:20,526 --> 00:14:23,526 Your Honor, the defense has obtained a blurry photo 307 00:14:23,529 --> 00:14:26,199 from a conspiracy theorist who got it from who-knows-where. 308 00:14:26,198 --> 00:14:27,868 How do you know where I got it from? 309 00:14:27,867 --> 00:14:30,237 It wasn't in discovery. 310 00:14:30,244 --> 00:14:33,084 Are you spying on me? 311 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:34,420 - Judge? - Cogdell, 312 00:14:34,415 --> 00:14:35,705 get ahold of yourself. 313 00:14:35,708 --> 00:14:37,418 Besides, 314 00:14:37,418 --> 00:14:39,248 we have our own evidence we'd like to submit 315 00:14:39,253 --> 00:14:41,343 which will address these ridiculous claims. 316 00:14:41,338 --> 00:14:42,588 And what's that? 317 00:14:42,590 --> 00:14:44,090 We found the door, Your Honor. 318 00:14:44,091 --> 00:14:45,261 The door? What door? 319 00:14:45,259 --> 00:14:46,719 - What door? - Yeah. 320 00:14:46,719 --> 00:14:48,549 The one you've been asking about non-stop. 321 00:14:48,554 --> 00:14:51,524 The one you claim is gonna flip this whole case on its head. 322 00:14:51,515 --> 00:14:53,725 We're bringing it in. 323 00:14:53,726 --> 00:14:55,266 Should put your concerns to rest. 324 00:14:56,562 --> 00:14:59,612 dramatic music plays 325 00:15:05,613 --> 00:15:07,573 May it please the Court, 326 00:15:07,573 --> 00:15:09,033 the government would like to offer 327 00:15:09,033 --> 00:15:12,083 Government Exhibit Number 728. 328 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,120 Jesus, what a showman. 329 00:15:15,122 --> 00:15:17,122 You hear what he said earlier? 330 00:15:17,124 --> 00:15:20,254 That a conspiracy theorist gave us the photo? 331 00:15:20,252 --> 00:15:22,592 Do you think they've got the Polo Lounge bugged? 332 00:15:22,588 --> 00:15:24,918 We found the door in Sector F, 333 00:15:24,924 --> 00:15:28,094 approximately 40 feet away from the building. 334 00:15:28,093 --> 00:15:30,433 And did you realize it was the front door? 335 00:15:30,429 --> 00:15:31,599 No, sir. 336 00:15:31,597 --> 00:15:33,057 It was located so far away 337 00:15:33,057 --> 00:15:34,477 from the front of the building 338 00:15:34,475 --> 00:15:37,475 we classified it as a piece of scrap metal. 339 00:15:37,478 --> 00:15:39,438 And when did you come to realize 340 00:15:39,438 --> 00:15:41,148 that it was the front door? 341 00:15:41,148 --> 00:15:43,778 When we re-canvassed the evidence warehouse yesterday 342 00:15:43,776 --> 00:15:46,066 at your urging and found it. 343 00:15:46,070 --> 00:15:49,110 Now, does this door 344 00:15:49,114 --> 00:15:51,744 appear to have any bullet holes in it? 345 00:15:51,742 --> 00:15:53,082 No, sir. 346 00:15:53,410 --> 00:15:55,960 So there is nothing here 347 00:15:55,955 --> 00:15:58,785 that contradicts any of the earlier ATF testimony 348 00:15:58,791 --> 00:16:01,791 stating that the Davidians fired first? 349 00:16:01,794 --> 00:16:04,424 No. 350 00:16:04,421 --> 00:16:06,801 Were you aware that the cult compound 351 00:16:06,799 --> 00:16:08,339 - originally had two front doors? - Yes. 352 00:16:08,342 --> 00:16:09,972 We re-canvassed for that one as well, 353 00:16:09,969 --> 00:16:12,969 but didn't find it, which wasn't surprising. 354 00:16:14,139 --> 00:16:15,309 Why not? 355 00:16:15,724 --> 00:16:17,604 It was still attached to the building. 356 00:16:17,601 --> 00:16:20,101 It melted when the building burned. 357 00:16:20,104 --> 00:16:21,614 Objection. Speculation. 358 00:16:21,605 --> 00:16:22,815 The witness has no first-hand knowledge 359 00:16:22,815 --> 00:16:24,815 that the other door melted. 360 00:16:24,817 --> 00:16:27,277 Uh-hmm. Sustained. 361 00:16:27,277 --> 00:16:28,317 All right. 362 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,030 Ranger Boak, 363 00:16:30,030 --> 00:16:33,160 why do you believe the other front door melted? 364 00:16:33,158 --> 00:16:36,498 Because the doors were aluminum with foam cores. 365 00:16:36,495 --> 00:16:37,955 And it was subjected to temperatures 366 00:16:37,955 --> 00:16:40,165 in excess of 1300 degrees Fahrenheit 367 00:16:40,165 --> 00:16:41,705 during the fire. 368 00:16:41,709 --> 00:16:44,129 Aluminum melts at 1200. 369 00:16:44,128 --> 00:16:46,708 And why didn't this door melt? 370 00:16:47,881 --> 00:16:49,011 You see those marks? 371 00:16:50,718 --> 00:16:52,638 They're from the treads of a tank. 372 00:16:53,053 --> 00:16:55,563 And when the tanks penetrated the compound entryway, 373 00:16:55,556 --> 00:16:57,676 we believe the door got caught in the treads 374 00:16:57,683 --> 00:16:59,813 and was dragged to the place that we found it. 375 00:16:59,810 --> 00:17:01,350 Well clear of the fire. 376 00:17:01,353 --> 00:17:02,813 Could you go get something for me? 377 00:17:02,813 --> 00:17:04,733 Now, Ranger Boak, 378 00:17:04,732 --> 00:17:09,072 you didn't realize that this was a door initially. 379 00:17:10,237 --> 00:17:13,027 Is that common, to miscategorize evidence? 380 00:17:13,032 --> 00:17:16,042 It's not common but it happens, 381 00:17:16,035 --> 00:17:18,745 particularly if there's a large volume of evidence. 382 00:17:18,746 --> 00:17:23,376 Final question, were you and the Texas Rangers 383 00:17:23,375 --> 00:17:25,705 part of a massive conspiracy 384 00:17:25,711 --> 00:17:29,211 headed by the Federal government to hide this door? 385 00:17:32,092 --> 00:17:33,842 I reckon not, sir. 386 00:17:37,097 --> 00:17:38,387 No further questions. 387 00:17:40,476 --> 00:17:42,386 Sheriff said we needed proof of, um, 388 00:17:43,479 --> 00:17:45,769 what'd he call it? 389 00:17:45,773 --> 00:17:47,523 - Corpse abuse. - Corpse abuse 390 00:17:47,524 --> 00:17:49,744 in order to do anything about it. 391 00:17:49,735 --> 00:17:51,735 Well... 392 00:17:51,737 --> 00:17:53,527 what if we gave him some proof? 393 00:17:55,282 --> 00:17:56,582 Like a picture? 394 00:17:57,201 --> 00:18:00,951 We can't just go to Mount Carmel and snap a picture. 395 00:18:02,456 --> 00:18:04,246 George carries around an Uzi. 396 00:18:04,249 --> 00:18:05,539 He's... 397 00:18:05,542 --> 00:18:07,882 He's crazy. 398 00:18:07,878 --> 00:18:09,378 I mean, you heard the Sheriff, 399 00:18:09,379 --> 00:18:11,419 he said we might need to arm ourselves. 400 00:18:12,841 --> 00:18:14,301 So what if we did? 401 00:18:14,301 --> 00:18:15,591 All right. 402 00:18:15,594 --> 00:18:17,934 We'll take, uh, five of the Rugers 403 00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:21,230 and, uh, throw in some of them camo suits too. 404 00:18:21,225 --> 00:18:22,305 You got it. 405 00:18:39,201 --> 00:18:40,291 We're here. 406 00:18:47,626 --> 00:18:49,956 All right. 407 00:18:49,962 --> 00:18:52,462 Everybody stay quiet and stay close. 408 00:18:52,464 --> 00:18:54,934 We're just getting a few photos and then getting out. 409 00:18:54,925 --> 00:18:56,085 All right? 410 00:18:56,093 --> 00:18:59,813 tense music plays 411 00:19:04,184 --> 00:19:05,644 Okay. Come on. 412 00:20:02,367 --> 00:20:03,697 Vernon! 413 00:20:03,702 --> 00:20:06,042 suspenseful music plays 414 00:20:06,038 --> 00:20:06,998 No. No, George. 415 00:20:11,043 --> 00:20:12,543 Go, go, go! 416 00:20:12,544 --> 00:20:14,384 You're trespassing! 417 00:20:14,379 --> 00:20:16,049 Sneaking around my property! 418 00:20:18,050 --> 00:20:20,890 suspenseful music plays 419 00:20:55,337 --> 00:20:56,587 George, no! 420 00:20:56,588 --> 00:20:57,758 Ah! 421 00:20:57,756 --> 00:20:59,586 Oh! Oh! 422 00:21:02,636 --> 00:21:04,096 You all right? 423 00:21:04,096 --> 00:21:05,756 Guess you got to learn how to shoot. 424 00:21:05,764 --> 00:21:07,984 Won't be the last time we got to defend ourselves. 425 00:21:09,935 --> 00:21:12,975 suspenseful music plays 426 00:21:20,487 --> 00:21:21,607 Beast is coming. 427 00:21:28,370 --> 00:21:29,790 Drop your weapons! 428 00:21:30,831 --> 00:21:32,671 On the ground! 429 00:21:46,054 --> 00:21:49,644 ATF agents testified 430 00:21:49,641 --> 00:21:52,191 that the Davidians shot first 431 00:21:52,185 --> 00:21:54,475 and that those shots... 432 00:21:54,479 --> 00:21:58,029 went through the front doors. 433 00:21:58,025 --> 00:22:00,815 But the Davidians have stated that it was the ATF 434 00:22:00,819 --> 00:22:03,859 who shot at them through those same doors. 435 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,450 But this door has no bullet holes in it, correct? 436 00:22:08,452 --> 00:22:10,162 Not that I see. 437 00:22:10,162 --> 00:22:12,332 So it must be the other door, the still-missing door, 438 00:22:12,331 --> 00:22:14,331 that was shot through and it would be the other door 439 00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:18,003 that would prove which side was telling the truth. 440 00:22:18,879 --> 00:22:21,129 Yes. It-- it appears that way. 441 00:22:23,175 --> 00:22:25,795 Well, that's bad luck, isn't it? 442 00:22:28,722 --> 00:22:30,352 Uh, a moment, Judge. 443 00:22:34,186 --> 00:22:36,356 - Oh... shit. - That's all I could find. 444 00:22:37,397 --> 00:22:40,027 So, you believe the other door melted. 445 00:22:40,025 --> 00:22:41,225 - Yes. - Because it was made 446 00:22:41,234 --> 00:22:42,364 of aluminum. 447 00:22:43,779 --> 00:22:45,159 That's what I said. 448 00:22:45,155 --> 00:22:48,195 And those guns right there didn't melt 449 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,660 because they're made of steel, 450 00:22:49,659 --> 00:22:51,369 which has a much higher melting point? 451 00:22:51,370 --> 00:22:53,870 Yes. 452 00:22:53,872 --> 00:22:56,172 So if the other door was made of steel, 453 00:22:56,166 --> 00:22:57,666 would it have melted? 454 00:22:58,877 --> 00:23:00,207 No. 455 00:23:00,754 --> 00:23:03,724 Yet that door seems awfully heavy. 456 00:23:04,966 --> 00:23:07,386 Well, I mean, my daddy was a contractor. 457 00:23:07,386 --> 00:23:09,846 Uh, I'd help him demo houses. 458 00:23:09,846 --> 00:23:11,426 We pulled down a lot of aluminum doors. 459 00:23:11,431 --> 00:23:13,601 I could carry one under one arm. 460 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,520 Sure didn't take three men to pick one up. 461 00:23:17,604 --> 00:23:19,404 I--I couldn't speak to that. 462 00:23:19,398 --> 00:23:22,358 Well, then let me ask you this, Ranger Boak. 463 00:23:24,403 --> 00:23:25,863 Is aluminum magnetic? 464 00:23:25,862 --> 00:23:27,572 Objection! 465 00:23:27,572 --> 00:23:31,202 Ranger Boak is a lay witness, not a metals expert. 466 00:23:31,201 --> 00:23:33,451 I'll allow it. 467 00:23:33,453 --> 00:23:35,583 No, it's not magnetic. 468 00:23:35,580 --> 00:23:37,920 How about steel? 469 00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:40,086 I believe so, yes. 470 00:23:40,085 --> 00:23:41,915 So this refrigerator magnet, 471 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,920 would it stick to aluminum? 472 00:23:45,465 --> 00:23:47,875 Um, no, it--it wouldn't. 473 00:23:47,884 --> 00:23:50,974 tense music plays 474 00:24:17,664 --> 00:24:20,334 Do you still believe this door is made of aluminum? 475 00:24:25,213 --> 00:24:28,633 No, sir, it looks to be made of steel. 476 00:24:28,967 --> 00:24:30,967 And if this door is made of steel, 477 00:24:30,969 --> 00:24:32,969 wouldn't it stand to reason that the other door 478 00:24:32,971 --> 00:24:36,601 it was attached to was also made of steel? 479 00:24:41,146 --> 00:24:43,646 The witness needs to respond verbally. 480 00:24:45,859 --> 00:24:46,989 Yes. 481 00:24:48,028 --> 00:24:49,988 So then, Ranger Boak, 482 00:24:49,988 --> 00:24:51,698 I'll ask you again... 483 00:24:53,533 --> 00:24:55,493 where is the missing door? 484 00:25:31,571 --> 00:25:32,821 Oh, hey. 485 00:25:32,822 --> 00:25:34,872 Do you--do you need the phone? 486 00:25:34,866 --> 00:25:36,696 Because I can wait, it's not urgent. 487 00:25:36,701 --> 00:25:37,991 Hello? 488 00:25:40,539 --> 00:25:41,709 No, go ahead. 489 00:25:43,416 --> 00:25:46,336 Hello? Hello? 490 00:25:46,336 --> 00:25:47,746 Hey, Daddy. 491 00:25:47,754 --> 00:25:49,214 Oh, Carol. 492 00:25:49,214 --> 00:25:50,724 Oh, it's so good to hear from you. 493 00:25:50,715 --> 00:25:52,875 - Are you safe? - Yeah, yeah. 494 00:25:52,884 --> 00:25:54,514 I, I just wanted you to know that, 495 00:25:54,511 --> 00:25:56,391 that I made it to my friend's place okay. 496 00:25:56,388 --> 00:25:58,718 You know, I didn't-- I didn't want you to worry. 497 00:25:58,932 --> 00:26:02,272 Yeah, that's good to hear because I was worried. 498 00:26:02,269 --> 00:26:04,229 Your mom and I were both worried. 499 00:26:05,772 --> 00:26:07,612 When do you think we'll see you again? 500 00:26:07,607 --> 00:26:09,357 Uh, it's hard to say, you know, 501 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,239 but I--but I should go because there's someone 502 00:26:11,236 --> 00:26:12,856 waiting on the phone, so I, you know, 503 00:26:12,862 --> 00:26:14,702 I just didn't want you to think I got lost. 504 00:26:14,698 --> 00:26:16,448 Well, hey, thanks for calling. 505 00:26:16,449 --> 00:26:17,739 You called... 506 00:26:17,742 --> 00:26:19,742 Hmm. 507 00:26:22,998 --> 00:26:25,128 Ah, that was Carol. 508 00:26:25,125 --> 00:26:26,785 She's still in play. 509 00:26:26,793 --> 00:26:29,963 You sure she's just not looking to get more candy money? 510 00:26:32,465 --> 00:26:33,585 What's your name? 511 00:26:33,592 --> 00:26:35,262 I don't know you. 512 00:26:35,260 --> 00:26:38,260 Woo. Good girl. You taught her well. 513 00:26:38,263 --> 00:26:41,393 Okay, kiddo, we're gonna get you to daycare. 514 00:26:44,144 --> 00:26:47,814 Government has charged my clients with conspiracy. 515 00:26:47,814 --> 00:26:51,444 They claim that Paul Fatta was a blood merchant, 516 00:26:51,443 --> 00:26:54,073 the architect of some violent plot 517 00:26:54,070 --> 00:26:57,280 when he was just a man trying to run a business. 518 00:26:57,282 --> 00:26:59,782 But after what we saw today I can't help but wonder 519 00:26:59,784 --> 00:27:01,914 if it's the government who shouldn't be answering 520 00:27:01,911 --> 00:27:03,121 for their actions, 521 00:27:03,705 --> 00:27:06,325 if it's the government who is conspiring against 522 00:27:06,333 --> 00:27:09,593 my clients, whose only crime was leading 523 00:27:09,586 --> 00:27:12,256 a life the government didn't agree with. 524 00:27:14,674 --> 00:27:18,144 And now that same government refuses to take responsibility 525 00:27:18,136 --> 00:27:20,136 for its actions, and in fact is willing to do 526 00:27:20,138 --> 00:27:23,098 whatever it takes to cover it up, 527 00:27:23,099 --> 00:27:26,479 even if it means hurting innocent people. 528 00:27:26,478 --> 00:27:30,148 But that malfeasance, that arrogance 529 00:27:30,148 --> 00:27:32,858 has dangerous consequences 530 00:27:32,859 --> 00:27:34,029 for my clients 531 00:27:34,027 --> 00:27:35,947 and for the rest of this country. 532 00:27:36,738 --> 00:27:38,448 Lori Rae? 533 00:27:38,448 --> 00:27:39,658 You're on the Waco jury, right? 534 00:27:39,658 --> 00:27:40,778 What? 535 00:27:40,784 --> 00:27:44,204 No, I don't wanna talk. 536 00:27:44,204 --> 00:27:46,004 The Constitution of the United States 537 00:27:45,997 --> 00:27:47,707 gives jurors great powers. 538 00:27:49,376 --> 00:27:51,166 I'm here to inform you of your choices. 539 00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:58,339 Please, leave! 540 00:27:58,343 --> 00:27:59,973 Please! 541 00:28:04,724 --> 00:28:06,144 I'm calling the police! 542 00:28:06,142 --> 00:28:08,402 You can make the right choice. 543 00:28:08,395 --> 00:28:10,185 Please! 544 00:28:10,188 --> 00:28:13,318 suspenseful music plays 545 00:28:35,213 --> 00:28:37,053 Before we get started, I wanna make you all aware 546 00:28:37,048 --> 00:28:38,548 of something, 547 00:28:38,550 --> 00:28:40,220 five of our jurors had letters delivered 548 00:28:40,218 --> 00:28:43,888 to their homes this weekend by a group called FIJA, 549 00:28:43,888 --> 00:28:47,348 the Fully Informed Jury Association. 550 00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:49,060 Pamphlets claim 551 00:28:49,060 --> 00:28:50,850 the rules of the court don't apply to the jury 552 00:28:50,854 --> 00:28:53,574 and they can make up whatever verdict they see fit. 553 00:28:53,565 --> 00:28:55,065 - To the jurors' homes? - Yes. 554 00:28:55,066 --> 00:28:57,856 One of the jurors, juror number six, 555 00:28:57,861 --> 00:28:59,901 said she was practically accosted. 556 00:28:59,904 --> 00:29:02,034 She's pretty shaken up about it. 557 00:29:04,784 --> 00:29:07,584 Any of you all familiar with this group? 558 00:29:07,579 --> 00:29:08,959 Are you asking us, Your Honor? 559 00:29:08,955 --> 00:29:10,415 I'm asking everyone. 560 00:29:10,415 --> 00:29:12,245 It just seems like the implication 561 00:29:12,250 --> 00:29:14,750 is that the defense might benefit from this. 562 00:29:14,753 --> 00:29:16,213 I think you're reading into my question. 563 00:29:16,212 --> 00:29:18,092 I'm not implying anything, counselor. 564 00:29:18,089 --> 00:29:21,259 I'm just concerned that if-if the jury thinks 565 00:29:21,259 --> 00:29:22,759 these people are aligned with-- 566 00:29:22,761 --> 00:29:24,431 I will tell the jury they have nothing to do 567 00:29:24,429 --> 00:29:26,099 with anyone involved in the trial. 568 00:29:26,097 --> 00:29:27,967 That would be much appreciated. Thank you. 569 00:29:27,974 --> 00:29:30,734 So long as they believe they can remain impartial. 570 00:29:30,727 --> 00:29:33,437 - Let's get started. - Thank you. 571 00:29:48,661 --> 00:29:50,081 Your Honor, the government calls 572 00:29:50,079 --> 00:29:52,119 Kathy Schroeder to the stand. 573 00:29:59,297 --> 00:30:01,837 So you were a member of this group, 574 00:30:01,841 --> 00:30:03,431 a Branch Davidian? 575 00:30:03,802 --> 00:30:06,812 I was. Yes. 576 00:30:06,805 --> 00:30:08,635 This must be very hard for you 577 00:30:09,057 --> 00:30:11,477 to testify against your own people. 578 00:30:12,644 --> 00:30:14,984 Yeah, it is. 579 00:30:14,979 --> 00:30:18,819 When the ATF arrived on February 28th 580 00:30:18,817 --> 00:30:21,147 to serve their warrant, 581 00:30:21,152 --> 00:30:22,952 and a gunfight erupted, 582 00:30:22,946 --> 00:30:25,696 were you tasked with any kind of job? 583 00:30:25,698 --> 00:30:26,988 Yes. 584 00:30:28,535 --> 00:30:30,495 I was the one who made sure that everybody 585 00:30:30,495 --> 00:30:32,865 had a gun and made sure that everybody 586 00:30:32,872 --> 00:30:35,462 had the right ammunition to go with it. 587 00:30:35,458 --> 00:30:36,878 - No! They're gonna kill you. - Why? 588 00:30:36,876 --> 00:30:38,206 - I don't care! - Give me that gun! 589 00:30:38,211 --> 00:30:40,211 Give me that gun! 590 00:30:40,213 --> 00:30:43,173 And why were you entrusted with this job? 591 00:30:43,174 --> 00:30:44,724 I'd been in the Air Force. 592 00:30:44,926 --> 00:30:47,676 So it was like a military exercise? 593 00:30:48,054 --> 00:30:50,184 It was something we'd trained for. 594 00:30:50,181 --> 00:30:52,521 And the people that you were passing out 595 00:30:52,517 --> 00:30:55,137 these weapons to, did they take them 596 00:30:55,144 --> 00:30:57,694 - with the intent to use them? - Objection. Speculation. 597 00:30:57,689 --> 00:30:59,689 I'll rephrase. 598 00:30:59,691 --> 00:31:02,361 Was it your understanding that the weapons would be used? 599 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,030 Absolutely. 600 00:31:04,028 --> 00:31:05,988 And are some of the people that you passed out 601 00:31:05,989 --> 00:31:08,529 these weapons to here today? 602 00:31:09,742 --> 00:31:11,162 Yes. 603 00:31:11,369 --> 00:31:13,539 Let's get specific. 604 00:31:13,538 --> 00:31:15,038 During the raid, 605 00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:19,339 did you have any contact with Ruth Riddle? 606 00:31:19,335 --> 00:31:22,415 I gave Ruth a gun and nine mags. 607 00:31:22,422 --> 00:31:24,722 Can you identify Ruth Riddle? 608 00:31:27,886 --> 00:31:29,386 I'm sorry, Ruth. 609 00:31:29,721 --> 00:31:32,021 Let the record show that Mrs. Schroeder 610 00:31:32,015 --> 00:31:34,015 has identified Ruth Riddle. 611 00:31:36,269 --> 00:31:38,019 What contact did you have with Clive Doyle 612 00:31:38,021 --> 00:31:39,521 concerning firearms? 613 00:31:40,940 --> 00:31:43,280 I gave Clive the .308. 614 00:31:43,276 --> 00:31:45,736 Can you identify Clive Doyle? 615 00:31:49,282 --> 00:31:52,952 Did you have any contact with Livingstone Fagan 616 00:31:52,952 --> 00:31:54,752 concerning firearms? 617 00:31:54,746 --> 00:31:56,706 Livingstone was already carrying an AK, 618 00:31:56,706 --> 00:31:58,916 so I just made sure he had ammo. 619 00:31:58,917 --> 00:32:01,877 Did you have any contact with Paul Fatta 620 00:32:01,878 --> 00:32:03,918 concerning firearms? 621 00:32:03,922 --> 00:32:05,592 Not on the day of the raid, 622 00:32:05,882 --> 00:32:08,262 but he purchased the guns. 623 00:32:10,678 --> 00:32:13,098 So David Koresh 624 00:32:13,097 --> 00:32:15,927 instructed you to hand out 625 00:32:15,934 --> 00:32:18,564 the weapons Paul Fatta purchased 626 00:32:18,770 --> 00:32:21,110 to these defendants? 627 00:32:21,105 --> 00:32:22,105 Yes. 628 00:32:22,649 --> 00:32:26,439 We all had guns. You get it? We all had guns. 629 00:32:26,444 --> 00:32:30,114 We all--we all knew what was coming. 630 00:32:30,114 --> 00:32:32,454 David always said, "If you can't kill for God, 631 00:32:32,450 --> 00:32:34,410 you can't die for God." 632 00:32:34,911 --> 00:32:37,911 And was David Koresh willing to die? 633 00:32:37,914 --> 00:32:39,834 Of course. 634 00:32:39,832 --> 00:32:41,252 We all were. 635 00:32:42,543 --> 00:32:44,803 We were the army of God. 636 00:32:48,675 --> 00:32:49,965 Even, even David's name, 637 00:32:49,968 --> 00:32:51,428 David Koresh, 638 00:32:51,427 --> 00:32:53,757 that means "Beloved Death." 639 00:32:57,141 --> 00:33:00,141 So... when David Koresh 640 00:33:00,144 --> 00:33:04,154 believed he was dying from his gunshot wounds, 641 00:33:04,148 --> 00:33:07,148 was there a plan in case he died? 642 00:33:09,404 --> 00:33:10,824 We were supposed to carry David 643 00:33:10,822 --> 00:33:14,122 out the front door on a stretcher. 644 00:33:17,203 --> 00:33:19,163 If he wasn't dead yet, 645 00:33:19,664 --> 00:33:22,504 we were gonna shoot him in the head. 646 00:33:22,834 --> 00:33:27,304 And then we were supposed to open fire on the FBI agents. 647 00:33:28,923 --> 00:33:31,553 And why would you want to do that? 648 00:33:37,015 --> 00:33:39,135 To-to-to... 649 00:33:41,102 --> 00:33:43,562 to draw their fire. 650 00:33:45,064 --> 00:33:46,864 So they'd kill us all. 651 00:33:51,279 --> 00:33:54,529 See, you had to know the real David. 652 00:33:54,782 --> 00:33:57,202 He was never gonna surrender. 653 00:33:59,912 --> 00:34:02,372 Sorry. 654 00:34:02,373 --> 00:34:04,883 He was never gonna let us go. 655 00:34:07,754 --> 00:34:09,924 And how did you know that? 656 00:34:10,882 --> 00:34:12,222 Because... 657 00:34:13,634 --> 00:34:15,764 he'd conditioned us. 658 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,350 Oh, he did. 659 00:34:25,772 --> 00:34:28,442 He conditioned us for years 660 00:34:28,441 --> 00:34:30,401 to believe that we were headed 661 00:34:30,401 --> 00:34:33,401 for an armed showdown with the-- 662 00:34:33,404 --> 00:34:36,244 with the forces of the Beast. 663 00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:38,080 The Beast? 664 00:34:38,076 --> 00:34:40,076 From the Book of Revelation. 665 00:34:40,078 --> 00:34:42,078 So, 666 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,540 when the ATF arrived at your door, 667 00:34:45,541 --> 00:34:48,091 you believed they were those forces? 668 00:34:48,086 --> 00:34:50,376 And you were ready for battle. 669 00:34:53,966 --> 00:34:55,256 Yeah, we were. 670 00:34:57,929 --> 00:35:00,469 And you were conditioned to believe 671 00:35:01,015 --> 00:35:04,725 that it would be a battle to the death? 672 00:35:06,813 --> 00:35:07,943 Yes. 673 00:35:08,231 --> 00:35:12,741 So, no matter what the government did, 674 00:35:12,735 --> 00:35:16,405 no matter how many chances they gave the Branch Davidians 675 00:35:16,405 --> 00:35:17,945 to come out of Mount Carmel, 676 00:35:19,325 --> 00:35:21,115 you weren't coming out alive? 677 00:35:26,999 --> 00:35:28,499 No. 678 00:35:28,501 --> 00:35:31,631 dramatic music plays 679 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,350 It's not too late, you know. 680 00:35:43,683 --> 00:35:45,643 We could pick a different place. 681 00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:49,310 Bet most of those kids never even heard of Waco. 682 00:35:52,066 --> 00:35:53,936 We kill a bunch of kids, 683 00:35:54,277 --> 00:35:57,317 who's to say we're any better than the ATF? 684 00:35:59,157 --> 00:36:01,827 Yeah. Hello? 685 00:36:01,826 --> 00:36:03,946 Gary, Sanborn here. 686 00:36:03,953 --> 00:36:05,833 Oh hey, Alan, what's up? 687 00:36:05,830 --> 00:36:08,330 I need you on a plane in a couple hours. 688 00:36:08,332 --> 00:36:11,462 I passed off the negotiations team to Hendricks. 689 00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:13,670 It's not a negotiation. 690 00:36:13,671 --> 00:36:16,341 I need you in Texas ASAP. 691 00:36:16,340 --> 00:36:19,840 You're being called to testify in the Waco trial tomorrow. 692 00:36:22,013 --> 00:36:24,523 What? The... 693 00:36:24,515 --> 00:36:27,515 the prosecution wants me to testify? 694 00:36:27,518 --> 00:36:29,688 No, the defense does. 695 00:36:30,062 --> 00:36:33,482 - The defense? Why? - I don't know. 696 00:36:33,482 --> 00:36:36,072 Maybe they caught wind of your little meltdown 697 00:36:36,068 --> 00:36:37,988 with the DOJ, where you said Waco 698 00:36:37,987 --> 00:36:39,567 was all the government's fault. 699 00:36:39,572 --> 00:36:40,872 That's not what I said. 700 00:36:40,865 --> 00:36:42,695 Well, either way, 701 00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:45,160 they want you on the stand tomorrow. 702 00:36:45,161 --> 00:36:48,581 Jesus. No, I--no, no. 703 00:36:48,581 --> 00:36:50,211 I don't have time for that, Alan. 704 00:36:50,208 --> 00:36:51,878 Can you make it go away? 705 00:36:51,876 --> 00:36:53,166 No, I cannot. It's a Federal subpoena. 706 00:36:53,169 --> 00:36:56,049 I-- This is bad timing, Alan. 707 00:36:56,047 --> 00:36:58,837 I just got a CI into Elohim City. 708 00:36:58,841 --> 00:37:00,261 What? 709 00:37:01,385 --> 00:37:03,045 Whoa, whoa, whoa. 710 00:37:03,054 --> 00:37:05,564 Who the hell gave you clearance to send a CI in there? 711 00:37:05,556 --> 00:37:07,266 I sure as hell didn't, Gary. 712 00:37:07,266 --> 00:37:09,056 If that unauthorized CI turns up dead, 713 00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:10,770 your career is over. 714 00:37:10,770 --> 00:37:12,060 I realize that. 715 00:37:12,063 --> 00:37:13,563 That's why I can't leave right now. 716 00:37:13,564 --> 00:37:15,074 I don't like you testifying 717 00:37:15,066 --> 00:37:17,186 any more than you do. 718 00:37:17,193 --> 00:37:20,613 You go down there and you show that you know how to play ball. 719 00:37:20,613 --> 00:37:22,783 If you want support out there in Oklahoma, 720 00:37:22,782 --> 00:37:25,792 then you're gonna have to show us that you are a team player. 721 00:37:31,540 --> 00:37:33,750 Are you stupid? 722 00:37:33,751 --> 00:37:36,711 You had no right to do this without talking to us. 723 00:37:36,712 --> 00:37:38,262 This right here is how you lose our whole case. 724 00:37:38,256 --> 00:37:41,966 I'm sorry. Were you in there just now? 725 00:37:41,968 --> 00:37:45,298 Because Kathy Schroeder just destroyed us. 726 00:37:45,304 --> 00:37:48,394 Look, our whole case is built on self-defense, 727 00:37:48,391 --> 00:37:51,441 on the idea that the government attacked the Davidians. 728 00:37:51,435 --> 00:37:53,435 But the jury is not gonna give a shit about that 729 00:37:53,437 --> 00:37:55,647 if they think the Davidians already had a death wish 730 00:37:55,648 --> 00:37:58,228 and were gonna kill themselves no matter what. 731 00:37:58,651 --> 00:38:02,611 So our job, our most important job, 732 00:38:02,613 --> 00:38:05,453 is to show the jury that our clients 733 00:38:05,449 --> 00:38:09,119 were actual people, people who wanted to live. 734 00:38:09,537 --> 00:38:12,827 And that the choices the ATF and the FBI made 735 00:38:12,832 --> 00:38:15,672 are what resulted in all those people dying. 736 00:38:15,668 --> 00:38:18,088 We could put their friends on the stand... 737 00:38:18,087 --> 00:38:19,797 - No, no. - ...their family. 738 00:38:19,797 --> 00:38:23,087 Come on. Somebody's mama ain't gonna convince the jury. 739 00:38:23,092 --> 00:38:25,302 But if we can get a badge up there and he says 740 00:38:25,303 --> 00:38:28,143 that these were real people, people who wanted to live... 741 00:38:30,391 --> 00:38:32,141 then we're cooking with gas. 742 00:38:32,143 --> 00:38:34,853 So, just to be clear, you're gonna put 743 00:38:34,854 --> 00:38:38,154 a professional negotiator on the stand 744 00:38:38,149 --> 00:38:40,149 and hope you can get him to crack? 745 00:38:41,736 --> 00:38:43,356 It's a Hail Mary at best. 746 00:38:43,362 --> 00:38:45,162 Well, we need a Hail Mary 747 00:38:45,156 --> 00:38:49,326 and we need it to connect or we lose. 748 00:39:06,552 --> 00:39:10,352 I am so tired of people spreading lies about David, 749 00:39:10,348 --> 00:39:12,808 especially when the lies are coming from one of our own. 750 00:39:12,808 --> 00:39:14,188 How could she say those things? 751 00:39:14,185 --> 00:39:16,645 That we wanted this to happen? 752 00:39:16,645 --> 00:39:19,015 We wanted all the people we love to die? 753 00:39:19,023 --> 00:39:20,523 - It's insane. - Uh-hmm. 754 00:39:20,524 --> 00:39:23,034 It's like letting Judas write the Gospel. 755 00:39:25,071 --> 00:39:26,861 I'm gonna testify. 756 00:39:28,908 --> 00:39:31,408 Your lawyer is letting you speak? 757 00:39:31,410 --> 00:39:33,250 - Mine won't let me. - Neither will mine. 758 00:39:33,245 --> 00:39:34,865 I don't care. 759 00:39:34,872 --> 00:39:37,252 I have a legal right to testify if I want to. 760 00:39:37,249 --> 00:39:40,589 - We all do. - Uh, she's right. 761 00:39:40,586 --> 00:39:43,046 It doesn't matter that the lawyers said no. 762 00:39:43,047 --> 00:39:44,587 Legally, they can't stop us. 763 00:39:44,590 --> 00:39:46,380 And our lawyers are not listening to us. 764 00:39:46,384 --> 00:39:48,554 No one is listening to us. 765 00:39:48,552 --> 00:39:50,222 So we have to make them listen. 766 00:39:51,764 --> 00:39:53,274 I don't know. 767 00:39:54,934 --> 00:39:57,024 We are good people. 768 00:39:57,019 --> 00:39:58,849 Someone needs to say it. 769 00:39:59,397 --> 00:40:02,567 We're not monsters. David's not a monster. 770 00:40:02,942 --> 00:40:05,692 The jury needs to hear that David would never do 771 00:40:05,694 --> 00:40:07,414 anything to hurt us. 772 00:40:09,740 --> 00:40:11,120 He loved us. 773 00:40:13,577 --> 00:40:15,577 - Someone should say something. - Uh-hmm. 774 00:40:15,579 --> 00:40:18,709 dramatic music plays 775 00:40:42,314 --> 00:40:43,944 Hey, mama. 776 00:40:43,941 --> 00:40:45,781 What the hell were you thinking, 777 00:40:45,776 --> 00:40:47,736 shooting at George Roden like that? 778 00:40:48,279 --> 00:40:51,239 - Well, they let me go. - And if they didn't? 779 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:53,280 If they kept you in jail, you think these friends of yours 780 00:40:53,284 --> 00:40:55,664 would still be there when you got out? 781 00:40:55,661 --> 00:40:59,291 - God told me that-- - Oh, don't give me that crap! 782 00:40:59,290 --> 00:41:01,080 They might buy this whole messiah thing 783 00:41:01,083 --> 00:41:02,633 you've been feeding them, but I remember 784 00:41:02,626 --> 00:41:03,956 when you were still pissing your bed. 785 00:41:03,961 --> 00:41:05,001 Stop! 786 00:41:13,679 --> 00:41:15,849 God speaks to me! 787 00:41:15,848 --> 00:41:17,638 - Vernon? - He didn't choose you! 788 00:41:17,641 --> 00:41:19,351 He didn't choose Grandma! 789 00:41:19,351 --> 00:41:20,851 He chose me! 790 00:41:20,853 --> 00:41:22,153 Me! 791 00:41:22,146 --> 00:41:24,606 - Vernon! - Not anymore. 792 00:41:24,607 --> 00:41:26,317 You gave me that name. 793 00:41:26,317 --> 00:41:28,437 But God's got bigger plans for me than you could ever 794 00:41:28,444 --> 00:41:29,654 even thought of! 795 00:41:29,653 --> 00:41:31,163 Just get in the car. 796 00:41:31,155 --> 00:41:33,525 God's given me a new name. 797 00:41:33,532 --> 00:41:35,162 David Koresh. 798 00:41:35,159 --> 00:41:36,869 From now on, you will call me by my name! 799 00:41:36,869 --> 00:41:39,659 I will call you by your given name! 800 00:41:39,663 --> 00:41:41,173 Your real name! 801 00:41:41,165 --> 00:41:44,535 David Koresh is my real name! 802 00:41:44,543 --> 00:41:46,883 Or do you think you know better than God? 803 00:41:46,879 --> 00:41:48,879 And is it God then who told you 804 00:41:48,881 --> 00:41:51,341 to impregnate Rachel's little sister? 805 00:41:51,342 --> 00:41:53,012 What is she, 14? 806 00:41:53,010 --> 00:41:55,680 You were 14 when you had me! 807 00:41:55,679 --> 00:41:57,309 And I remember what it felt 808 00:41:57,306 --> 00:41:59,676 like to be a 14-year-old mother. 809 00:41:59,683 --> 00:42:01,643 You know how that felt? 810 00:42:01,644 --> 00:42:04,194 Like I was too young! 811 00:42:09,693 --> 00:42:13,363 I follow where God leads 812 00:42:13,364 --> 00:42:16,084 and if you can't get with the program, then-- 813 00:42:16,075 --> 00:42:18,195 well, then you'll never see these grandkids of yours. 814 00:42:18,202 --> 00:42:20,542 How does that sound to you? Is that what you want? 815 00:42:20,538 --> 00:42:23,418 And they'll ask me, "Daddy, why don't I have a grandma?" 816 00:42:23,415 --> 00:42:25,705 And I'll say, "Oh, you do have one out there somewhere, 817 00:42:25,709 --> 00:42:29,209 but she always had to know best, better than God." 818 00:42:31,257 --> 00:42:33,507 Some souls just can't be led to the spirit, 819 00:42:33,509 --> 00:42:36,389 no matter how hard you scream and shout at them. 820 00:42:40,766 --> 00:42:42,726 Fine. 821 00:42:42,726 --> 00:42:44,896 Just get back in the car. 822 00:42:47,439 --> 00:42:49,859 Get back in the car what? 823 00:42:52,236 --> 00:42:54,446 Get back in the car, please. 824 00:43:00,786 --> 00:43:04,036 Get back in the car please, David. 825 00:43:05,791 --> 00:43:07,251 They're coming for your guns! 826 00:43:07,251 --> 00:43:08,881 They're coming for your kids! 827 00:43:08,877 --> 00:43:10,457 They're coming for your guns! 828 00:43:10,462 --> 00:43:11,922 They're coming for your kids! 829 00:43:11,922 --> 00:43:13,472 They're coming for your guns! 830 00:43:13,465 --> 00:43:15,125 They're coming for your kids! 831 00:43:15,134 --> 00:43:16,724 They're coming for your guns! 832 00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,259 They're coming for your kids! 833 00:43:18,262 --> 00:43:19,762 They're coming for your guns! 834 00:43:19,763 --> 00:43:21,313 They're coming for your kids! 835 00:43:21,307 --> 00:43:22,927 They're coming for your guns! 836 00:43:22,933 --> 00:43:24,483 They're coming for your kids! 837 00:43:24,476 --> 00:43:26,436 They're coming for your guns! 838 00:43:26,437 --> 00:43:27,937 - They're coming for your kids! - Is it always like this? 839 00:43:27,938 --> 00:43:29,568 Been a circus since day one. 840 00:43:29,565 --> 00:43:31,435 I've been telling them we need more support, 841 00:43:31,442 --> 00:43:34,452 especially after one of the jurors was followed home. 842 00:43:34,445 --> 00:43:36,065 - What? - These guys are coming here 843 00:43:36,071 --> 00:43:37,491 from all over the country. 844 00:43:55,382 --> 00:43:58,932 So, you gonna ask Noesner about the missing door? 845 00:43:58,927 --> 00:44:00,637 Yeah, probably. 846 00:44:00,929 --> 00:44:03,469 Hey, where is everyone? 847 00:44:03,474 --> 00:44:05,984 Hmm, maybe the bus is late. 848 00:44:05,976 --> 00:44:07,476 Oh, shit. Now what? 849 00:44:09,521 --> 00:44:11,321 What's up? 850 00:44:11,315 --> 00:44:14,145 It seems we got a bit of a mutiny on our hands. 851 00:44:14,151 --> 00:44:17,821 You're denying us our constitutional rights. 852 00:44:17,821 --> 00:44:20,621 We have a 6th Amendment right to self-representation, 853 00:44:20,616 --> 00:44:22,156 and you're denying us that right. 854 00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:23,869 Is this about testifying again? 855 00:44:23,869 --> 00:44:26,329 This is about speaking the truth! 856 00:44:26,664 --> 00:44:29,294 We're, we're good people, and we just want the chance-- 857 00:44:29,291 --> 00:44:30,831 Clive, we've talked about this. 858 00:44:30,834 --> 00:44:32,634 There's no way in hell you're gonna testify. 859 00:44:34,046 --> 00:44:36,466 We already have an opinion on-- 860 00:44:36,465 --> 00:44:39,125 All right. Stop. Stop! Stop! 861 00:44:42,846 --> 00:44:44,346 You wanna testify? 862 00:44:44,348 --> 00:44:45,888 You should know what it's gonna be like. 863 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,350 Mr. Fagan, you were a follower of David Koresh, correct? 864 00:44:50,354 --> 00:44:52,364 - Yes. - Did you believe him 865 00:44:52,356 --> 00:44:54,526 when he said the end times were coming? 866 00:44:54,525 --> 00:44:56,025 Yes. 867 00:44:56,026 --> 00:44:58,026 Is that why you were preparing for battle? 868 00:44:59,530 --> 00:45:01,660 A spiritual battle. 869 00:45:01,949 --> 00:45:05,039 And were people gonna die in this spiritual battle? 870 00:45:05,744 --> 00:45:07,254 Yes. 871 00:45:07,246 --> 00:45:09,416 Mr. Fagan, have you ever shot anyone? 872 00:45:11,917 --> 00:45:15,087 Mr. Fagan, you swore on a Bible to tell the truth. 873 00:45:15,087 --> 00:45:17,547 Now, I'll ask you again. Have you ever shot anyone? 874 00:45:17,548 --> 00:45:19,548 - Dan-- - No, no, no. They wanna do this. 875 00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:23,050 Mr. Fatta, in 1988, you were in a gun battle? 876 00:45:24,555 --> 00:45:26,515 Yes. 877 00:45:26,515 --> 00:45:28,225 A battle led by David Koresh, 878 00:45:28,225 --> 00:45:30,595 for which you were both arrested. 879 00:45:30,602 --> 00:45:32,692 What crime were you charged with? 880 00:45:34,148 --> 00:45:36,938 - Attempted murder. - Attempted murder! 881 00:45:36,942 --> 00:45:39,572 You were prepared to kill for Mr. Koresh, weren't you? 882 00:45:39,570 --> 00:45:41,570 Because you would do anything Mr. Koresh said. 883 00:45:41,572 --> 00:45:42,782 It wasn't like that. 884 00:45:42,781 --> 00:45:44,701 We made our own choices. 885 00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:47,370 So you had free will? 886 00:45:47,369 --> 00:45:50,209 - Yes. - And what about you, Mr. Doyle, 887 00:45:50,205 --> 00:45:52,035 - were you brainwashed? - No. 888 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,540 So you made your own choices as well? 889 00:45:53,542 --> 00:45:55,292 - Yes. - So you chose to let 890 00:45:55,294 --> 00:45:58,554 your 12-year-old daughter marry a 30-year-old man? 891 00:46:02,968 --> 00:46:04,428 You don't understand... 892 00:46:04,428 --> 00:46:05,758 - And what about you? - ...what we-- 893 00:46:05,763 --> 00:46:06,813 You knew what was going on. 894 00:46:06,805 --> 00:46:08,265 Did you say anything? 895 00:46:08,265 --> 00:46:10,225 You have to know the Bible. 896 00:46:10,225 --> 00:46:12,595 What about you? Did you say anything? 897 00:46:14,605 --> 00:46:16,265 Did you? Or maybe you didn't care 898 00:46:16,273 --> 00:46:18,113 because you had a son instead of a daughter. 899 00:46:18,108 --> 00:46:19,228 That's not fair! 900 00:46:19,234 --> 00:46:20,944 You are all complicit. 901 00:46:20,944 --> 00:46:23,414 You all saw, you knew, and you didn't say anything. 902 00:46:23,405 --> 00:46:24,775 Do you know what the legal term 903 00:46:24,782 --> 00:46:26,412 for these marriages of David's is? 904 00:46:26,408 --> 00:46:27,738 It's rape. 905 00:46:27,743 --> 00:46:29,833 It wasn't rape! 906 00:46:29,828 --> 00:46:30,948 It wasn't even sexual! 907 00:46:30,954 --> 00:46:32,164 David married them 908 00:46:32,164 --> 00:46:33,674 in order to have children! 909 00:46:33,665 --> 00:46:36,415 Is that why he married a ten-year-old girl, 910 00:46:36,418 --> 00:46:38,498 because she was so fertile? 911 00:46:43,842 --> 00:46:46,682 You are not guilty of the crime you've been accused of. 912 00:46:46,678 --> 00:46:49,258 And what the government did at Mount Carmel 913 00:46:49,264 --> 00:46:51,184 is an abomination. 914 00:46:53,143 --> 00:46:54,983 But you're not innocent either. 915 00:46:54,978 --> 00:46:57,308 And if you get up there to testify, 916 00:46:57,314 --> 00:46:59,864 that's all anybody will be left with. 917 00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:19,550 dramatic music plays 918 00:47:28,887 --> 00:47:32,387 Everybody wants to go to heaven 919 00:47:34,393 --> 00:47:37,903 Everybody wants to go to heaven 62391

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