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1
00:00:10,230 --> 00:00:11,956
Once
negotiations broke down,
2
00:00:11,980 --> 00:00:13,740
we were left with little choice.
3
00:00:13,940 --> 00:00:15,950
The decision was made
for us to insert gas
4
00:00:16,150 --> 00:00:18,870
in an effort to coerce those
on the inside to come out.
5
00:00:20,910 --> 00:00:24,130
We followed protocol to a T.
6
00:00:24,330 --> 00:00:27,460
The Davidians were raining
down gunfire on my men.
7
00:00:27,660 --> 00:00:29,436
It looked like Christmas out
there with bullets hitting
8
00:00:29,460 --> 00:00:32,640
our tanks, and my men
showed such restraint.
9
00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,760
Not a single shot was
returned from the FBI.
10
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,600
Now with that being
said, are there tactics
11
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,180
or decisions that you
would've made differently?
12
00:00:44,430 --> 00:00:45,770
Not a one.
13
00:00:47,100 --> 00:00:48,440
Not a one, huh?
14
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,280
This
is not an assault.
15
00:00:50,390 --> 00:00:52,570
The siege is over now.
16
00:00:55,530 --> 00:00:58,740
The gas you will be smelling
is a non-lethal tear gas.
17
00:00:58,940 --> 00:01:00,620
Exit the compound.
18
00:01:00,820 --> 00:01:02,260
M60 vehicle,
19
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:03,830
this combat engineering vehicle,
20
00:01:04,030 --> 00:01:05,500
uh, pumped tear gas...
21
00:01:08,790 --> 00:01:11,470
Gary, the Davidians
had a death wish.
22
00:01:11,670 --> 00:01:13,510
That's not on the FBI.
23
00:01:13,710 --> 00:01:16,026
This thing was never gonna turn
out any different than it did.
24
00:01:16,050 --> 00:01:17,890
If anything, we
should've gone in sooner,
25
00:01:17,960 --> 00:01:19,520
once we realized
that negotiations
26
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:20,880
weren't yielding any results.
27
00:01:21,010 --> 00:01:22,810
- No results?
- Yeah.
28
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,020
You know I seem to recall
negotiating 35 people out
29
00:01:29,230 --> 00:01:31,900
of that building safely,
including 21 children.
30
00:01:32,100 --> 00:01:34,530
You're acting like we rushed in.
31
00:01:34,730 --> 00:01:37,910
We waited 51 days,
we gave you 51 days
32
00:01:38,110 --> 00:01:40,370
to try to talk 'em out,
and you couldn't do it.
33
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,680
Why isn't anyone coming out?
They should be coming out.
34
00:01:47,370 --> 00:01:48,570
No!
35
00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:51,880
inside this building.
36
00:01:51,910 --> 00:01:53,630
Seventeen of those
95 people, children.
37
00:01:53,750 --> 00:01:54,550
Some 30...
38
00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,890
- We give up. We give up.
- Okay.
39
00:02:00,090 --> 00:02:01,090
Somebody help me!
40
00:02:01,130 --> 00:02:02,730
We got people down here!
41
00:02:02,930 --> 00:02:05,480
Wait! Wait!
42
00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,730
You failed, you didn't do your
job, so we had to do ours.
43
00:02:08,930 --> 00:02:11,070
Gentlemen, why
don't we all take a break?
44
00:02:11,270 --> 00:02:12,570
Hmm?
45
00:02:12,770 --> 00:02:15,740
Give everyone a
chance to cool down.
46
00:02:15,940 --> 00:02:18,700
Gary, you need to get
your shit together.
47
00:02:18,900 --> 00:02:20,240
We need to come clean, Alan.
48
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,040
- Oh.
- People are angry
49
00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,926
about what happened in
Waco, and they're scared
50
00:02:23,950 --> 00:02:27,160
because they think that
we did it on purpose.
51
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:29,670
And we're too scared
52
00:02:29,870 --> 00:02:31,226
to tell them the truth,
that they're wrong.
53
00:02:31,250 --> 00:02:33,420
It wasn't part of
some master plan.
54
00:02:33,620 --> 00:02:36,100
It was just a bunch of bad
decisions and incompetence.
55
00:02:36,170 --> 00:02:37,930
Speak for
yourself, Gary.
56
00:02:38,130 --> 00:02:39,890
Your men, they may
have been incompetent.
57
00:02:40,090 --> 00:02:42,220
Mine sure weren't.
58
00:02:42,420 --> 00:02:44,270
Oh, yeah.
59
00:02:44,470 --> 00:02:47,770
Well, the
medal is in the mail, Mitch.
60
00:02:47,970 --> 00:02:49,786
Sunny
day today. We can expect
61
00:02:49,810 --> 00:02:51,906
much, much more of the same
over the next few days.
62
00:02:51,930 --> 00:02:53,786
You might wanna do some of
those outdoor activities
63
00:02:53,810 --> 00:02:55,456
- you've been saving up for.
- Thanks, Sammy.
64
00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:56,576
Coming up next,
65
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:57,910
the trial of the Waco Five
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00:02:58,110 --> 00:02:59,780
begins in San Antonio this week
67
00:02:59,980 --> 00:03:02,700
as a federal grand jury
indicted five of the surviving
68
00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:06,040
Branch Davidians for unlawful
possession of firearms,
69
00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,080
and aiding in the murder
of federal officers.
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00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:10,880
You ask me,
71
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:12,766
it's the FBI that should
be standing trial,
72
00:03:12,790 --> 00:03:14,800
not those religious nuts.
73
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,920
Our government
just went in there,
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00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,640
burned those people
alive, women and children.
75
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,800
I think every
ATF and FBI agent
76
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,050
at Waco should go to jail.
77
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:27,000
.: Waco.The.Aftermath.S01E01.Truths.and.Consequences.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.H.264-NTb :.
78
00:04:39,590 --> 00:04:41,050
- Noesner.
- Yeah.
79
00:04:41,250 --> 00:04:42,550
It's been awhile.
80
00:04:42,750 --> 00:04:44,316
Oh yeah, sure
has, since what?
81
00:04:44,340 --> 00:04:46,010
The, uh, Atlanta Prison Riots?
82
00:04:46,210 --> 00:04:47,686
No, I feel like
I've seen you since.
83
00:04:47,710 --> 00:04:50,390
Oh, yeah? So, uh, what's
on the menu today?
84
00:04:50,590 --> 00:04:53,520
Well, we got four guys
wearing ex-presidents masks.
85
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,860
Oh, like that movie Point Break?
86
00:04:57,060 --> 00:04:58,610
Never said they were original.
87
00:04:58,810 --> 00:05:00,826
No, these guys have been
running around all over,
88
00:05:00,850 --> 00:05:02,700
robbing banks in Oklahoma,
89
00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:05,910
Arkansas, 21 in all.
90
00:05:06,110 --> 00:05:09,580
They're efficient, you know,
smart, in and out, 90 seconds,
91
00:05:09,780 --> 00:05:12,290
so local authorities had
had a hard time figuring out
92
00:05:12,490 --> 00:05:15,380
where they are until today
when we got a last-minute tip
93
00:05:15,580 --> 00:05:18,550
that bank was gonna
be their next target.
94
00:05:18,750 --> 00:05:20,476
Now, we managed to
grab three of the guys,
95
00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:22,970
but one of them has
barricaded himself inside,
96
00:05:23,170 --> 00:05:24,550
and he has hostages.
97
00:05:24,750 --> 00:05:26,066
We feel all four of
these guys are members
98
00:05:26,090 --> 00:05:27,850
of the Aryan Republican Army.
99
00:05:28,050 --> 00:05:30,680
Oh, great. Nazis.
100
00:05:35,810 --> 00:05:37,560
What?
101
00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,036
Hi, my name's Gary.
102
00:05:39,060 --> 00:05:40,110
Who am I speaking with?
103
00:05:40,310 --> 00:05:42,110
People call me "Wild Bill".
104
00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:45,540
Well, Wild Bill, I'm
here to help you.
105
00:05:45,650 --> 00:05:47,296
Yeah?
Well, you can help me
106
00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:48,410
by getting me a helicopter,
107
00:05:48,610 --> 00:05:49,790
and I want it now
108
00:05:49,990 --> 00:05:51,470
or I'm gonna start
killing people.
109
00:05:51,650 --> 00:05:53,636
And don't even think about
trying to come in here
110
00:05:53,660 --> 00:05:55,136
because I got a pipe
bomb and I will blow
111
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:56,960
this place sky
high if you try it.
112
00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,346
Let me look into
getting you that helicopter.
113
00:05:58,370 --> 00:05:59,920
I'm serious!
114
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,080
I'm taking you
seriously, Wild Bill.
115
00:06:02,210 --> 00:06:04,680
- Is Bomb Squad present?
- Uh-hmm.
116
00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,260
Good. Keep 'em ready.
117
00:06:08,170 --> 00:06:09,856
All right. So, uh,
they're gonna need
118
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:11,486
a little time getting
you that helicopter.
119
00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:13,390
- No. I want it now!
- I do, too.
120
00:06:13,590 --> 00:06:15,590
But right now, the only
available helicopter
121
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,100
is 50 miles away.
122
00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:18,786
In the meantime,
maybe you can tell me
123
00:06:18,810 --> 00:06:20,400
how you got into this mess?
124
00:06:21,690 --> 00:06:23,820
Yeah. I got into this mess
125
00:06:24,020 --> 00:06:27,700
because somebody
has to fight back.
126
00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:30,990
You can only push people so far.
127
00:06:31,190 --> 00:06:32,620
That's very true.
128
00:07:33,050 --> 00:07:35,930
Who gave you permission
to use that thing in here?
129
00:07:36,130 --> 00:07:39,560
I'm a big boy, I gave
myself permission.
130
00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,730
Machines are not allowed in
here without a court order.
131
00:07:42,930 --> 00:07:45,650
Okay. Here's my court order.
132
00:07:45,850 --> 00:07:47,070
Funny.
133
00:07:47,270 --> 00:07:49,570
I don't see my
signature on that.
134
00:07:52,530 --> 00:07:53,870
Judge Smith.
135
00:07:54,070 --> 00:07:58,080
I'm Dan Cogdell. I
represent Clive Doyle.
136
00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,790
You're not defending anybody
with that thing in here.
137
00:08:00,990 --> 00:08:03,710
I want it gone by
the time we begin.
138
00:08:03,910 --> 00:08:07,050
Uh, but, Your Honor, I
have all my notes in it.
139
00:08:07,250 --> 00:08:08,686
Then I
suggest you find a way
140
00:08:08,710 --> 00:08:10,590
to get your notes out of it.
141
00:08:14,340 --> 00:08:16,720
Oh, shit.
142
00:08:23,970 --> 00:08:26,320
Baby killers!
143
00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:27,940
How come they hate us so much?
144
00:08:28,140 --> 00:08:29,360
They don't even know us.
145
00:08:32,650 --> 00:08:34,030
We'll be okay...
146
00:08:35,700 --> 00:08:37,200
somehow.
147
00:08:43,250 --> 00:08:45,130
You wanted
to present a motion?
148
00:08:45,870 --> 00:08:47,800
I did, Your Honor.
149
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,800
I would ask to predefine
inflammatory words.
150
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,300
Inflammatory words?
151
00:08:53,500 --> 00:08:54,800
Yes, Your Honor, we would move
152
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,640
to make certain
words inadmissible.
153
00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,140
Which words would you
recommend we ban, Mr. Cogdell?
154
00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:03,900
Well, for example,
155
00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:06,900
we would motion to exclude
the word "compound"
156
00:09:07,100 --> 00:09:09,400
when referring to the
home at Mount Carmel,
157
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,950
as the word "compound" has
militaristic connotations.
158
00:09:12,150 --> 00:09:14,410
At this point the word
"compound" has been used
159
00:09:14,610 --> 00:09:16,870
a million times to
refer to Mount Carmel.
160
00:09:17,070 --> 00:09:19,080
But to the defendants
this was not a compound,
161
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:20,620
this was their home
162
00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:22,420
where they lived
and raised children,
163
00:09:22,570 --> 00:09:24,346
where they had a God-given
right to practice their...
164
00:09:24,370 --> 00:09:27,000
Save it for
the trial, Mr. Cogdell.
165
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,920
Denied. Next.
166
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:30,516
We would like
to exclude the term
167
00:09:30,540 --> 00:09:31,920
"Branch Davidians".
168
00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:33,646
They never call
themselves by that name.
169
00:09:33,670 --> 00:09:35,090
Objection.
170
00:09:35,290 --> 00:09:36,816
If we can't call them
Branch Davidians,
171
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,606
then what are we
supposed to call them?
172
00:09:38,630 --> 00:09:40,106
- Out to lunch?
- Well, I think
173
00:09:40,130 --> 00:09:41,520
we can all agree that moniker
174
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,196
has been thoroughly
tarnished by the media.
175
00:09:43,220 --> 00:09:44,616
The
term "Branch Davidian"
176
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,610
was tarnished by
their own actions.
177
00:09:46,810 --> 00:09:49,020
But, Your Honor,
they are not on trial
178
00:09:49,220 --> 00:09:50,650
for their religious beliefs.
179
00:09:50,850 --> 00:09:52,616
The defense used the
term "Branch Davidians"
180
00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:53,640
in their own filings.
181
00:09:53,730 --> 00:09:54,820
I have a motion here filed
182
00:09:55,020 --> 00:09:56,260
by Rocket Rosen of the defense.
183
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:57,820
Who's Rocket Rosen?
184
00:09:58,020 --> 00:10:00,200
I am, Your Honor.
185
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:01,200
Your name is Rocket?
186
00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:02,450
Yes, Your Honor.
187
00:10:02,650 --> 00:10:04,210
I was born on the 4th of July,
188
00:10:04,410 --> 00:10:06,040
so my daddy named me Rocket.
189
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,710
Well, I was born on October 26,
so my daddy named me Walter.
190
00:10:12,130 --> 00:10:14,010
- Did you file this motion?
- I did.
191
00:10:14,210 --> 00:10:16,476
- But that was a mistake.
- Motion denied.
192
00:10:16,500 --> 00:10:18,220
Next.
193
00:10:18,420 --> 00:10:20,220
The word "cult".
194
00:10:20,420 --> 00:10:23,060
Do they not yet realize
that this was a cult?
195
00:10:23,260 --> 00:10:24,520
This was no cult.
196
00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:25,890
It was a communal church
197
00:10:26,090 --> 00:10:27,730
and David Koresh
was their pastor.
198
00:10:27,930 --> 00:10:30,900
Once that pastor takes 20 wives
199
00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:32,940
and leads his church
to mass suicide,
200
00:10:33,140 --> 00:10:35,360
I would say the word
"cult" is applicable.
201
00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:39,120
But the defendants are not
on trial for mass suicide.
202
00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,586
Nobody thinks that any one
of them had anything to do
203
00:10:41,610 --> 00:10:44,370
with any fire or
had multiple wives
204
00:10:44,570 --> 00:10:46,580
or took child
brides or any of it.
205
00:10:46,780 --> 00:10:48,710
Using the word
"cult" is an attempt
206
00:10:48,910 --> 00:10:51,290
to try our clients for
another man's sins.
207
00:10:51,500 --> 00:10:52,620
Motion denied.
208
00:10:52,660 --> 00:10:53,740
My client Clive Doyle
209
00:10:53,830 --> 00:10:54,880
was there 15 years
210
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:56,880
before David Koresh's arrival.
211
00:10:59,090 --> 00:11:01,840
Rose and thorn, Karen?
212
00:11:03,340 --> 00:11:06,560
My thorn is I didn't sleep
213
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,520
very well 'cause Shari kept
stealing all the covers.
214
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,280
And rose, I got extra
oatmeal at breakfast.
215
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,610
Well, how about you, Shari?
216
00:11:17,810 --> 00:11:20,070
Rose, playing.
217
00:11:20,270 --> 00:11:21,950
Thorn, Karen.
218
00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:25,620
How about you, Dad?
219
00:11:25,820 --> 00:11:30,210
Thorn is my back's
been hurting me again.
220
00:11:30,410 --> 00:11:35,170
My rose is that I get to
spend this moment right now
221
00:11:35,370 --> 00:11:39,260
with my two favorite people
in the entire world, you two.
222
00:11:39,460 --> 00:11:41,430
I have never
wavered on this, George,
223
00:11:41,630 --> 00:11:44,810
you don't wear a sidearm
for Sabbath service.
224
00:11:45,010 --> 00:11:47,140
Why do you think you're
so special, mama?
225
00:11:47,340 --> 00:11:48,816
That you get to
make all the rules?
226
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,020
Because I am your prophet.
227
00:12:15,790 --> 00:12:17,170
Don't mind him.
228
00:12:18,380 --> 00:12:20,970
My name is Vernon Howell.
229
00:12:21,170 --> 00:12:24,760
I'm looking for the
Prophet Lois Roden.
230
00:12:26,050 --> 00:12:27,180
Come in.
231
00:12:28,970 --> 00:12:30,930
Service is starting.
232
00:12:35,140 --> 00:12:36,366
That's what you don't get.
233
00:12:36,390 --> 00:12:37,860
It's about being a patriot
234
00:12:38,060 --> 00:12:40,150
'cause this country
has lost its way.
235
00:12:40,350 --> 00:12:42,530
It's turned against the people
236
00:12:42,730 --> 00:12:44,046
who made it great
in the first place.
237
00:12:44,070 --> 00:12:45,270
So what are we supposed to do?
238
00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,376
Just wait for things to change
239
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:47,660
or do we fight back?
240
00:12:47,860 --> 00:12:49,580
And in your eyes, robbing banks
241
00:12:49,780 --> 00:12:51,540
is a way of fighting back?
242
00:12:51,740 --> 00:12:54,080
No, robbing
banks was never the point.
243
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:55,660
Then what is?
244
00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:59,670
Yeah. You'll see.
245
00:13:02,170 --> 00:13:03,510
Yeah, payback's coming.
246
00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:05,300
It's coming sooner
than you think.
247
00:13:08,590 --> 00:13:12,260
Look, we've been
talking now for 20 hours.
248
00:13:13,970 --> 00:13:15,560
And it seems to
me that you and I
249
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:16,826
aren't gonna agree on much.
250
00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:19,690
So maybe we could focus
251
00:13:19,890 --> 00:13:21,070
on what we do agree on.
252
00:13:22,780 --> 00:13:24,190
Yeah, like what?
253
00:13:25,650 --> 00:13:27,586
Like you and
your friends have robbed
254
00:13:27,610 --> 00:13:28,990
21 banks successfully,
255
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:30,750
nobody hurt, perfectly executed.
256
00:13:30,950 --> 00:13:32,750
No, I'm not admitting
the other banks.
257
00:13:32,950 --> 00:13:34,870
I'm not asking
you to do that.
258
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,250
But you see to the world
right now, you're a legend.
259
00:13:39,450 --> 00:13:42,170
You're Robin Hood, 22
banks and you haven't
260
00:13:42,370 --> 00:13:44,840
hurt a single person.
261
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,220
Now you'll do a few
years' time for sure.
262
00:13:47,420 --> 00:13:49,260
But then, who knows?
263
00:13:49,460 --> 00:13:51,770
Maybe you'd sell
your movie rights
264
00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:54,480
to Hollywood and go sip
margaritas on a beach.
265
00:13:56,510 --> 00:14:00,650
But the second
you take someone's life,
266
00:14:00,850 --> 00:14:03,360
you are just another murderer.
267
00:14:04,780 --> 00:14:06,820
And nobody will care
268
00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:09,620
what you have to say ever again.
269
00:14:09,820 --> 00:14:13,660
You come out of that bank and
you're gonna have options.
270
00:14:13,860 --> 00:14:17,210
You come out of that bank,
you're gonna have a future.
271
00:14:17,410 --> 00:14:20,880
You want people to hear
what you have to say,
272
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:22,960
then come out of the bank.
273
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,060
Don't
shoot! Unarmed! Unarmed!
274
00:14:35,260 --> 00:14:37,390
Clear!
Get down on your knees.
275
00:14:38,850 --> 00:14:40,560
Hands on your head.
276
00:14:41,770 --> 00:14:43,310
Interlace your fingers.
277
00:14:48,070 --> 00:14:50,330
Our best strategy is
going to be to convince
278
00:14:50,530 --> 00:14:53,450
the jury that David
Koresh was misunderstood.
279
00:14:53,650 --> 00:14:55,490
We need to humanize
him, make him seem less
280
00:14:55,530 --> 00:14:57,540
like the boogeyman,
more relatable.
281
00:14:57,740 --> 00:14:59,040
David Koresh was
282
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,540
an opportunistic
narcissistic piece of shit.
283
00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:04,630
We're not in the business
of defending Koresh.
284
00:15:04,830 --> 00:15:06,340
He's dead.
285
00:15:06,540 --> 00:15:07,760
Well, if that's how you feel,
286
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,266
then why'd you even
take this case?
287
00:15:09,290 --> 00:15:11,300
The issue can't
be whether or not
288
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:12,760
Koresh was the messiah.
289
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,390
If that's our case,
then they win,
290
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:17,140
because guess what?
291
00:15:17,340 --> 00:15:18,560
He wasn't.
292
00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,860
Our case has to
be about the fact
293
00:15:21,060 --> 00:15:22,650
the United States government
294
00:15:22,850 --> 00:15:25,190
raided these people's
home without cause.
295
00:15:25,390 --> 00:15:27,950
And it was their
overreach, their hubris
296
00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:31,120
that led to the deaths of 76
people including 17 children.
297
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,200
And in America, you
don't get to do that
298
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,676
because, if they can do
what they did to our clients
299
00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:37,710
and get away with it,
it'll give everyone
300
00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:40,460
with a badge and a gun from
a Wackenhut security guard
301
00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:42,540
to Janet Reno the authority
302
00:15:42,740 --> 00:15:44,210
to do whatever they want,
303
00:15:44,410 --> 00:15:45,410
to whomever they want,
304
00:15:45,580 --> 00:15:47,130
however they want.
305
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:50,550
And that's the argument
we need to make.
306
00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:52,390
- Amen.
- Yeah.
307
00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:56,310
What in the hell is
that asshole doing here?
308
00:15:56,510 --> 00:15:58,030
You get lost,
Johnston, or are you,
309
00:15:58,180 --> 00:16:00,230
uh, here to beg for mercy?
310
00:16:00,430 --> 00:16:04,440
Neither. I've got
an offer for you.
311
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,690
They're offering 15 years
with the possibility of parole.
312
00:16:07,890 --> 00:16:10,740
What would I have to do
if I did take the deal?
313
00:16:10,940 --> 00:16:13,240
You'd have to plead
guilty and then testify
314
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,870
against the other
members of your group.
315
00:16:16,070 --> 00:16:18,200
No, wait, wait, wait.
316
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:19,840
Before you close
your mind to it,
317
00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:21,550
you should know
that they've offered
318
00:16:21,740 --> 00:16:23,420
the same deal to
all five of you.
319
00:16:23,620 --> 00:16:25,710
If you don't take it,
you face the possibility
320
00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:27,500
of life without parole.
321
00:16:28,750 --> 00:16:31,260
But I didn't do anything.
322
00:16:31,460 --> 00:16:34,350
Clive, unfortunately,
that doesn't matter.
323
00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:36,260
It's a conspiracy charge.
324
00:16:36,460 --> 00:16:39,390
If any single one of
you is found guilty,
325
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:41,730
then you're all guilty.
326
00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:44,940
If any one of you pulled
the trigger of a gun,
327
00:16:45,140 --> 00:16:47,110
then you all pulled the trigger.
328
00:16:47,310 --> 00:16:49,280
You're gonna rise
and fall together.
329
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,780
You got until opening
statements to decide
330
00:16:51,980 --> 00:16:54,530
and then the deal's
off the table.
331
00:16:56,030 --> 00:16:58,370
Here is
what is going to happen.
332
00:16:58,570 --> 00:17:00,790
Instead of arguing
about this juror
333
00:17:00,990 --> 00:17:02,250
or that juror,
334
00:17:02,450 --> 00:17:05,040
going back and
forth, you, then you.
335
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,800
I am gonna save us
a whole lot of time
336
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:10,470
and the American taxpayer
337
00:17:10,670 --> 00:17:12,630
a lot of money and help
pick the jury myself.
338
00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:13,760
So you can all relax.
339
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,640
Objection, Your Honor.
340
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:17,810
You can't object to
me. I'm the judge.
341
00:17:18,010 --> 00:17:19,850
Well, then, uh, exception.
342
00:17:21,220 --> 00:17:22,350
Noted.
343
00:17:26,220 --> 00:17:27,390
Can he do that?
344
00:17:32,020 --> 00:17:34,530
How do you feel about
people who join a cult?
345
00:17:34,730 --> 00:17:35,780
Objection.
346
00:17:35,980 --> 00:17:38,990
Exception, Your Hon... shit.
347
00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:40,296
How do you feel
348
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:41,960
about people who join
349
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,420
extremist religious groups?
350
00:17:44,620 --> 00:17:47,170
I do have negative
feelings towards people
351
00:17:47,370 --> 00:17:51,010
who abuse children if
that's what you're asking.
352
00:17:51,210 --> 00:17:52,930
Or people who give
their sense of choice
353
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,340
over to false prophets.
354
00:17:55,540 --> 00:17:57,180
You can stay.
355
00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:59,680
So, Clive, how'd
you come to be here?
356
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,230
My mom and I heard some
of Lois's teachings,
357
00:18:02,430 --> 00:18:04,680
so we followed that
message all the way here.
358
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,440
That was 15 years ago.
359
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:08,946
All the
way from Australia?
360
00:18:08,970 --> 00:18:11,030
I don't think I'll ever leave.
361
00:18:11,230 --> 00:18:12,690
Wow.
362
00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:17,450
How about you? What
brought you here?
363
00:18:17,650 --> 00:18:18,900
Me?
364
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,080
Well, I learned to read
by reading the Bible.
365
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,670
I can't see so well, you
know, all the letters
366
00:18:25,870 --> 00:18:28,840
get mixed up and stuff, so I
have trouble reading books,
367
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,960
but the Bible.
368
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,500
Man, I could just sit
and read it like magic.
369
00:18:35,550 --> 00:18:36,800
And you know what struck me?
370
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,350
Huh.
371
00:18:39,550 --> 00:18:42,180
I mean, for years, I asked
anyone who might know,
372
00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:44,560
"Hey, what happened to
all those old prophets?
373
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,310
Are there any still living now?
374
00:18:46,510 --> 00:18:49,060
Or did they all get stuck
here in this old book?"
375
00:18:49,260 --> 00:18:50,730
And they'd say, "Quiet, boy.
376
00:18:50,930 --> 00:18:52,206
Sit down and listen to
what we're teachin'."
377
00:18:53,940 --> 00:18:55,916
But nobody could
answer that one question.
378
00:18:55,940 --> 00:18:58,410
So I turned to God
and I asked Him,
379
00:18:58,610 --> 00:19:02,910
"Please, if there's a prophet,
please lead me there."
380
00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:06,540
Then three days later,
out of the blue,
381
00:19:06,740 --> 00:19:08,506
my grandma tells me about
some prophet out here
382
00:19:08,530 --> 00:19:10,330
on the plains of Waco.
383
00:19:10,540 --> 00:19:12,340
Her name was Lois Roden,
384
00:19:12,540 --> 00:19:14,630
and she lived at a place
called Mount Carmel.
385
00:19:17,050 --> 00:19:19,340
Went to my room,
packed my stuff,
386
00:19:19,540 --> 00:19:21,130
got here as fast as I could.
387
00:19:23,140 --> 00:19:26,510
That's... like a miracle.
388
00:19:28,020 --> 00:19:31,190
Yeah, that's what I thought too.
389
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,700
Did they offer you
all the plea deal too?
390
00:19:47,870 --> 00:19:49,310
My lawyer told me
the worst thing
391
00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:50,676
that could happen
is someone else
392
00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:52,210
taking the deal if I don't.
393
00:19:54,330 --> 00:19:58,630
Man, the government wants
their pound of flesh
394
00:19:58,830 --> 00:20:00,220
and they're gonna get it
395
00:20:00,420 --> 00:20:02,066
if we don't stay strong
and stick together.
396
00:20:02,090 --> 00:20:03,810
Look around this room.
397
00:20:04,010 --> 00:20:06,640
Do you expect anyone is
actually going to think
398
00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,390
Clive shot federal
agents in cold blood?
399
00:20:10,430 --> 00:20:12,150
Or Ruth?
400
00:20:12,350 --> 00:20:14,570
It doesn't matter
what they think.
401
00:20:14,770 --> 00:20:17,070
If they think any of us
did it, then we all did it.
402
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:18,650
I wasn't even there.
403
00:20:18,850 --> 00:20:22,410
Do you think any of
this is about truth?
404
00:20:22,610 --> 00:20:24,660
Or fairness? Or justice?
Because it's not.
405
00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:26,580
It is about anger.
406
00:20:26,780 --> 00:20:30,500
They are gonna roll over
us no matter what we do.
407
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:31,886
So we may as well
get through this
408
00:20:31,910 --> 00:20:34,290
with our dignity intact.
409
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:38,670
The government can make up
whatever story they want
410
00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:41,130
about what happened
inside Mount Carmel,
411
00:20:41,330 --> 00:20:43,470
but no one knows what you did
412
00:20:43,670 --> 00:20:45,850
or didn't do behind
closed doors,
413
00:20:46,050 --> 00:20:48,980
nobody but the
people in this room.
414
00:20:49,180 --> 00:20:51,140
So if we stay united
415
00:20:51,340 --> 00:20:53,730
and refute their story, then...
416
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,020
maybe we have a chance.
417
00:21:21,670 --> 00:21:23,460
Oh, shit.
418
00:21:27,130 --> 00:21:30,060
Hey, Dusty, mind if I pick
your brain about something?
419
00:21:30,260 --> 00:21:32,640
I was looking at
Wild Bill's file.
420
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,736
Why? We already
put him in jail.
421
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,230
Well, Wild Bill and his friends
successfully robbed 21 banks.
422
00:21:38,430 --> 00:21:39,610
But in their files,
423
00:21:39,810 --> 00:21:40,916
it doesn't seem as
though they made
424
00:21:40,940 --> 00:21:43,400
any conspicuous purchases.
425
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,910
That, combined with his
comment about "payback,"
426
00:21:46,110 --> 00:21:47,580
it was bugging me
427
00:21:47,780 --> 00:21:49,216
and I wanted to make sure
I wasn't missing anything.
428
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,870
So I took a closer
look and I found this.
429
00:21:53,070 --> 00:21:54,410
What am I looking at?
430
00:21:55,370 --> 00:21:56,960
You see that flag?
431
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,420
That's the same flag they
flew over at Mount Carmel.
432
00:22:00,620 --> 00:22:02,800
David Koresh
designed it himself.
433
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,380
Huh.
434
00:22:04,580 --> 00:22:08,300
Did Wild Bill have some
connection to Waco?
435
00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:10,100
I doubt it.
436
00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:13,100
The flag is probably used
more as a recruitment tool
437
00:22:13,300 --> 00:22:15,850
to fire people up.
438
00:22:16,050 --> 00:22:18,440
Any sense
where that photo was taken?
439
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,020
It doesn't say in the file.
440
00:22:21,730 --> 00:22:23,360
It looks like Elohim City to me.
441
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,030
It's a town of sorts.
442
00:22:25,230 --> 00:22:28,570
Started in the early '70s by
a group of former Mennonites,
443
00:22:28,770 --> 00:22:30,930
which gave birth to the
Christian Identity movement,
444
00:22:30,990 --> 00:22:32,250
which is, basically...
445
00:22:32,450 --> 00:22:33,546
Christianity for
White Supremacists.
446
00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:35,210
Uh-hmm.
447
00:22:35,410 --> 00:22:37,386
We'd need a serious warrant and
a small army to go in there.
448
00:22:37,410 --> 00:22:39,806
Something which, after Waco, I
don't think any of our bosses
449
00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:41,540
would be willing to
take a chance on.
450
00:22:46,090 --> 00:22:48,670
Clive Doyle,
you have a visitor.
451
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,140
Let's go.
452
00:22:56,930 --> 00:22:58,310
Some of the other families
453
00:22:58,510 --> 00:23:00,150
mentioned something
about a plea deal?
454
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,200
It's true. They've offered one.
455
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,530
I'm not sure I'm gonna
take the deal, Karen.
456
00:23:11,410 --> 00:23:12,450
Why not?
457
00:23:14,990 --> 00:23:17,960
Because they want us to
say it was our fault.
458
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,160
And it wasn't.
459
00:23:19,330 --> 00:23:21,160
Just get out, Dad.
460
00:23:22,790 --> 00:23:26,760
Shari's gone, everything's gone.
461
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,180
How much more do you feel
like you have to suffer?
462
00:23:29,380 --> 00:23:31,760
I loved David too,
but it's over!
463
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:32,960
I need my father back.
464
00:23:33,050 --> 00:23:34,640
I know, but...
465
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,100
You've already lost, Dad.
466
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,680
There's no more
point in fighting it.
467
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:44,770
Anne...
468
00:23:46,650 --> 00:23:48,530
she needs her grandfather.
469
00:23:50,860 --> 00:23:52,110
What?
470
00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:56,620
Really?
471
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:04,500
There's your rose.
472
00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:07,550
Is it?
473
00:24:32,860 --> 00:24:34,700
It's 15
years of loyalty,
474
00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:37,750
15 years of putting my life
on the line and then for what?
475
00:24:37,950 --> 00:24:39,160
For what?
476
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:40,596
Hey, hey, get your
hands off me, man.
477
00:24:40,620 --> 00:24:41,830
Get off me.
478
00:24:49,210 --> 00:24:51,170
- Weren't you...
- Yeah.
479
00:24:52,380 --> 00:24:53,890
Yeah, yeah, we've met.
480
00:24:54,090 --> 00:24:55,380
Right.
481
00:25:00,220 --> 00:25:01,720
Do you wanna get a drink?
482
00:25:03,020 --> 00:25:04,190
On the fire ants?
483
00:25:04,390 --> 00:25:06,860
On the goddamn fire ants.
484
00:25:07,060 --> 00:25:09,240
Oh, Jesus.
485
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,536
I mean, why anybody would
build their heaven on earth
486
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,150
on top of a goddamn fire
ant hill is just beyond me.
487
00:25:18,570 --> 00:25:19,966
So, come on, why'd...
why did you...
488
00:25:19,990 --> 00:25:21,370
Why did you ask me here?
489
00:25:21,570 --> 00:25:23,750
Come on, I know it wasn't
to talk about fire ants.
490
00:25:26,290 --> 00:25:28,420
Because my wife thinks
I should talk to someone
491
00:25:28,620 --> 00:25:29,710
and, uh...
492
00:25:31,250 --> 00:25:32,550
there aren't a lot of people
493
00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:34,760
who know what it was
like to be there.
494
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,470
You have regrets?
495
00:25:37,670 --> 00:25:40,640
I just keep wondering if
I did this differently
496
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,480
or if I said that differently,
497
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,200
then maybe things could've
turned out different, you know.
498
00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:47,390
Yeah, I do that too.
499
00:25:49,270 --> 00:25:51,900
And then there are times that
I wonder if you were just...
500
00:25:53,230 --> 00:25:55,410
just damned from the start.
501
00:25:55,610 --> 00:25:57,050
We weren't damned
from the start.
502
00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:59,450
We damned ourselves
through our own stupidity.
503
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,950
Mmm.
504
00:26:02,150 --> 00:26:04,120
What do you know
about Elohim City?
505
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,080
I know they're a bunch
of racist assholes,
506
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,556
but other than that, you
know, it's not my department,
507
00:26:09,580 --> 00:26:11,920
so I don't really
pay attention to it.
508
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:14,880
But this man from Elohim
City, he was so angry.
509
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:16,720
Uh-hmm.
510
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,930
And I just keep
thinking about the...
511
00:26:20,130 --> 00:26:22,640
people protesting at
the barricades at Waco
512
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,770
and I just feel this...
513
00:26:27,890 --> 00:26:31,440
this undercurrent
of rage in America.
514
00:26:34,980 --> 00:26:37,870
And I think we helped
create the monster
515
00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:39,860
we're trying to stop.
516
00:26:47,660 --> 00:26:50,210
Look, I know someone working
the Elohim City case.
517
00:26:50,410 --> 00:26:52,670
And, uh, I might be
able to set you up.
518
00:26:59,130 --> 00:27:01,470
This is blasphemy!
519
00:27:02,590 --> 00:27:04,520
I won't stand for it.
520
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,020
I speak the truth.
521
00:27:06,220 --> 00:27:07,650
God handles the consequences.
522
00:27:07,850 --> 00:27:11,270
George, the Holy
Spirit is feminine.
523
00:27:11,470 --> 00:27:13,610
We live in a male
dominated society
524
00:27:13,810 --> 00:27:16,280
and it has resulted in a
male dominated translation
525
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:17,820
of the Bible.
526
00:27:18,020 --> 00:27:21,280
There is the Father,
there is the Son,
527
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,910
and the Holy Spirit is mother.
528
00:27:24,530 --> 00:27:25,870
Lois is right.
529
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:29,830
What did you just say?
530
00:27:31,290 --> 00:27:33,210
I said, "Lois is right."
531
00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:34,960
I never saw it before
532
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,300
but she's mentioned all
over the Old Testament.
533
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:39,050
Proverbs 31:25,
534
00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:40,856
"She is clothed with
strength and dignity,
535
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,970
and she laughs without
fear of the future."
536
00:27:43,170 --> 00:27:44,430
Proverbs 31:10,
537
00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:46,106
"She is far more
precious than jewels."
538
00:27:46,130 --> 00:27:47,600
Psalms 46:5,
539
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,120
"God is in the midst of her;
she shall not be moved."
540
00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:52,190
- Quiet!
- Proverbs 31:26,
541
00:27:52,390 --> 00:27:54,190
"She opens her
mouth with wisdom,
542
00:27:54,390 --> 00:27:57,190
and the teaching of
kindness is on her tongue."
543
00:27:57,390 --> 00:28:00,070
Matthew 11:19, Luke 3:22.
544
00:28:00,270 --> 00:28:01,916
There are dozens of
examples in the Bible
545
00:28:01,940 --> 00:28:04,740
where the Holy Spirit
is referred to as "she".
546
00:28:04,940 --> 00:28:07,100
I mean, George, are you
saying the Bible is wrong?
547
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,790
No.
548
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:12,590
Of course, I'm not saying
the Bible is wrong.
549
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:36,530
Probably won't get you laid,
550
00:28:36,730 --> 00:28:38,520
but it'll make you
look more respectable.
551
00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:45,490
Have you decided
on the plea deal?
552
00:28:45,690 --> 00:28:48,000
This is your last
chance to take it.
553
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,080
You should be
more careful with George.
554
00:28:54,210 --> 00:28:55,790
He can be pretty mean.
555
00:28:57,790 --> 00:29:00,300
I'm not worried about
old George Roden.
556
00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:02,140
He's not the first
bully I dealt with.
557
00:29:02,210 --> 00:29:04,720
I'm sure he won't be the last.
558
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,810
"So do not fear,
for I am with you.
559
00:29:07,010 --> 00:29:09,140
Do not be dismayed,
for I am your God.
560
00:29:09,340 --> 00:29:11,690
I will strengthen you
and I will help you.
561
00:29:11,890 --> 00:29:14,900
I will uphold you with
my righteous right hand."
562
00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:17,270
Isaiah said that.
563
00:29:17,470 --> 00:29:19,530
You can go hide all your life,
564
00:29:19,730 --> 00:29:21,200
but then the whole world
565
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,950
winds up getting run by the
George Rodens everywhere.
566
00:29:24,150 --> 00:29:25,620
That's no way to
please the Lord.
567
00:29:25,820 --> 00:29:26,910
No.
568
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:28,790
You gotta show that faith.
569
00:29:28,990 --> 00:29:30,790
You got to show
it by standing up,
570
00:29:30,990 --> 00:29:33,830
by doing what's right,
571
00:29:34,030 --> 00:29:35,466
regardless of what
all them bullies
572
00:29:35,490 --> 00:29:37,170
tell you what they
think you should do.
573
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:40,766
It's just that
George is sick in the head.
574
00:29:40,790 --> 00:29:42,220
He's... he's violent.
575
00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:44,510
You don't understand
what he's capable of.
576
00:29:56,890 --> 00:29:59,310
He doesn't know what
I'm capable of either.
577
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,360
I'm stronger than they realize.
578
00:30:06,150 --> 00:30:09,200
And so are you, Clive Doyle.
579
00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:15,160
I don't give in to bullies.
580
00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:20,710
It's our job to do what's right.
581
00:30:20,910 --> 00:30:23,210
And it's God's job
to sort out the rest.
582
00:30:24,630 --> 00:30:28,050
Okay, then let's
go give 'em hell.
583
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:56,296
So, I've
just had breakfast
584
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:57,920
with defendant Schroeder,
585
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,266
and she's going to be playing
for the home team now,
586
00:31:00,290 --> 00:31:02,880
so get some statements
over...
587
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,800
But I just wanted to
let you know for now.
588
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,840
Good
morning, by the way.
589
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,440
Kathy Schroeder just flipped.
590
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:19,730
She took the plea deal
591
00:31:19,930 --> 00:31:22,150
and she's turning
state's witness.
592
00:31:22,350 --> 00:31:24,150
Kathy's going to
testify against us?
593
00:31:24,350 --> 00:31:25,350
Yeah.
594
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:36,910
Now this is
a simple story...
595
00:31:37,790 --> 00:31:39,620
with two clear sides.
596
00:31:40,830 --> 00:31:42,880
The government agents
597
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,040
who went in to serve a
legal search warrant...
598
00:31:47,460 --> 00:31:51,300
and the Branch Davidians,
led by David Koresh,
599
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:55,680
who adhered to a
philosophy of death.
600
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,190
A philosophy that led Koresh
601
00:31:58,390 --> 00:32:01,060
to train his people for battle
602
00:32:01,260 --> 00:32:02,730
and arm them for war,
603
00:32:02,930 --> 00:32:06,320
so that when those agents
approached Mount Carmel
604
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,660
to do their legal duty,
605
00:32:09,860 --> 00:32:13,700
the defendants laid in wait
with guns in their hands.
606
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:16,290
And when the agents
got close enough,
607
00:32:16,490 --> 00:32:19,040
the Branch Davidians
opened fire,
608
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,380
murdering four federal officers
609
00:32:22,580 --> 00:32:24,380
in cold blood.
610
00:32:24,580 --> 00:32:26,790
These men and women
aren't killers.
611
00:32:28,340 --> 00:32:29,710
They're victims.
612
00:32:32,090 --> 00:32:36,470
First, they were
victimized by David Koresh,
613
00:32:36,670 --> 00:32:40,810
a charismatic con man
who brainwashed them
614
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,730
into believing he was
a messiah on earth.
615
00:32:53,700 --> 00:32:56,410
And then they were
victimized by the ATF,
616
00:32:57,530 --> 00:32:59,870
who led an unnecessary
617
00:33:00,070 --> 00:33:02,120
ill-advised assault
on their home
618
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,380
that left 76 of their
friends and family,
619
00:33:05,580 --> 00:33:08,380
and even their children, dead.
620
00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:10,436
You're making
us look like sheep,
621
00:33:10,460 --> 00:33:12,130
like we just blindly
followed David
622
00:33:12,330 --> 00:33:13,800
with no minds of our own.
623
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,856
This isn't the strategy
we talked about before.
624
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,260
We weren't brainwashed.
625
00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:19,560
We were defending
something real.
626
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:20,890
We all believed in
627
00:33:21,090 --> 00:33:22,196
because we saw it
with our own eyes.
628
00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:25,270
My husband was shot dead
629
00:33:25,470 --> 00:33:26,770
and ripped to pieces
630
00:33:26,970 --> 00:33:29,610
by a government tank
because of those beliefs.
631
00:33:29,810 --> 00:33:31,780
It's not just the four
of us on trial here.
632
00:33:31,980 --> 00:33:35,950
When you say that what
we believe in is stupid,
633
00:33:36,150 --> 00:33:38,040
you're saying that the
people that we loved
634
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,200
who burned in that
building died for nothing.
635
00:33:41,410 --> 00:33:43,420
I don't give a rat's
ass about your religion.
636
00:33:43,620 --> 00:33:46,040
And frankly, I don't even
care if you look sane.
637
00:33:47,670 --> 00:33:50,630
All I care about is
keeping you out of jail.
638
00:33:50,830 --> 00:33:52,210
That's my only focus here.
639
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,970
And our defense
tactics have to change,
640
00:33:56,170 --> 00:33:58,340
because Kathy Schroeder
flipped on you.
641
00:34:00,050 --> 00:34:02,100
Before, you were
all a united front,
642
00:34:02,300 --> 00:34:05,020
whatever the prosecutor said
happened at Mount Carmel,
643
00:34:05,220 --> 00:34:07,020
was speculation.
644
00:34:07,220 --> 00:34:10,320
Now, one of your own is going
to corroborate their claims.
645
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,900
Kathy is gonna tell the jury
that she passed out guns
646
00:34:13,100 --> 00:34:15,140
to each and every one
of you during the siege.
647
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:17,200
I wasn't even there.
648
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,530
Well, then she's gonna
say you bought the guns,
649
00:34:19,740 --> 00:34:21,676
make you into an arms
dealer with a death wish.
650
00:34:21,700 --> 00:34:25,830
She's gonna turn the rest of
you into an army out for blood.
651
00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:30,130
So if-if we can't say
you never held a gun,
652
00:34:30,330 --> 00:34:32,090
we have to make the jury believe
653
00:34:32,290 --> 00:34:34,760
that you had no choice
but to pick one up.
654
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,010
You had no choice but
to protect yourselves,
655
00:34:38,210 --> 00:34:41,260
because David Koresh
conditioned you
656
00:34:41,470 --> 00:34:43,180
to do whatever he said,
657
00:34:43,380 --> 00:34:45,980
and the government charged in
trying to kill your children.
658
00:34:46,140 --> 00:34:48,520
But we didn't just do
whatever he told us to do.
659
00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:50,400
- We-we made choices.
- Yeah, look,
660
00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:52,610
you can be as pissed as
you want at me in here,
661
00:34:52,810 --> 00:34:54,320
but when we're in
that courtroom,
662
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,490
you need to sit there, and
you need to look sorry.
663
00:34:58,690 --> 00:35:00,580
You need to stop
shaking your head
664
00:35:00,780 --> 00:35:03,450
and-and stop glowering
at the prosecutors.
665
00:35:03,650 --> 00:35:07,170
And you, you need
to wear a dress.
666
00:35:07,370 --> 00:35:09,630
Yeah, something that
makes you look softer
667
00:35:09,830 --> 00:35:11,250
and more vulnerable.
668
00:35:11,450 --> 00:35:12,670
I don't wear dresses.
669
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:14,390
Well, then
we'll get you one.
670
00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:16,220
But you need to start
doing your part.
671
00:35:16,420 --> 00:35:19,090
You need to start
acting like the victim.
672
00:35:21,340 --> 00:35:23,800
You need to be
honest about who you are.
673
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:26,850
Proverbs speaks to this,
674
00:35:27,050 --> 00:35:28,770
calling for insight,
675
00:35:28,970 --> 00:35:32,440
not being afraid
to ask for help,
676
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,980
so that we can better
understand ourselves.
677
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,700
Vernon, what are
you struggling with?
678
00:35:40,900 --> 00:35:42,240
How can we help you?
679
00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:49,080
I struggle with my own desires,
680
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,580
which I feel so
strong sometimes.
681
00:35:52,670 --> 00:35:54,420
What kind of desires?
682
00:35:56,130 --> 00:35:57,670
Pleasure of the flesh.
683
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,850
Sometimes it's so strong,
684
00:36:02,050 --> 00:36:04,470
I have to relieve that
pressure several times a day.
685
00:36:04,670 --> 00:36:05,670
Oh!
686
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,350
It's okay. It's okay.
687
00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:10,560
You should feel
comfortable to share.
688
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,270
You shouldn't feel embarrassed.
689
00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:14,350
I never said I was embarrassed.
690
00:36:17,650 --> 00:36:19,820
Everyone has their
own struggles.
691
00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:23,240
No temptation has overtaken you
692
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,990
that is not common to man.
693
00:36:26,190 --> 00:36:27,870
God is faithful.
694
00:36:28,070 --> 00:36:30,546
He will not let you be tempted
beyond your ability, but...
695
00:36:30,570 --> 00:36:31,830
But with that temptation,
696
00:36:32,030 --> 00:36:33,870
He will also provide
the way of escape.
697
00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:37,260
Corinthians 10:13.
698
00:36:37,460 --> 00:36:39,930
But when that temptation
comes over me,
699
00:36:40,130 --> 00:36:43,430
I wonder if she's ever known
loving hands on her body,
700
00:36:43,630 --> 00:36:46,140
if she's ever felt true pleasure
701
00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:50,140
and I'm overcome...
702
00:36:50,340 --> 00:36:54,100
with desire until I feel
like I might go mad.
703
00:36:58,060 --> 00:36:59,780
You were, uh...
704
00:36:59,980 --> 00:37:01,780
You were pretty
honest at Bible study.
705
00:37:01,940 --> 00:37:04,030
I promised myself
that when I came here,
706
00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:06,070
I wouldn't hold back
any bit of myself...
707
00:37:07,490 --> 00:37:09,080
even those little ugly parts
708
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,561
that I'd rather sometimes
just sweep under the rug.
709
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:16,790
I... I felt the same
way when I came here.
710
00:37:18,250 --> 00:37:20,250
Like I wanted to
give all of myself.
711
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,420
Kindred spirits, I guess.
712
00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:30,500
- Looks good over here.
- Oh, do you need me?
713
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,440
Not just yet.
714
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,600
Actually, uh, I just came
over to talk to Vernon.
715
00:37:37,940 --> 00:37:40,490
Uh, Vernon,
716
00:37:40,690 --> 00:37:44,200
I'm getting ready to go on
my yearly trip to Israel.
717
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,870
And I think you
should join me...
718
00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:48,070
to study.
719
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:58,600
Nothing would give
me more pleasure
720
00:37:58,660 --> 00:38:00,880
than learning right
from your hands.
721
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,050
Good.
722
00:38:04,460 --> 00:38:05,970
That's settled then.
723
00:38:06,170 --> 00:38:08,050
Dramatic music plays
724
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:34,920
Hi. Uh, excuse
me. Are you Angie?
725
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:36,210
Jacob sent me.
726
00:38:36,410 --> 00:38:37,540
- Oh, yes.
- Yeah.
727
00:38:37,740 --> 00:38:38,740
- Gary?
- Right.
728
00:38:38,830 --> 00:38:39,830
- Okay. Hi.
- Yeah.
729
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,800
So you drew the
short straw, huh?
730
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,050
Yeah. Our informant's
name is Carol Howe.
731
00:38:45,250 --> 00:38:48,050
And, um, we didn't know
how seriously to take her
732
00:38:48,250 --> 00:38:51,600
because she's not the most
reliable-seeming informant.
733
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,680
Uh-hmm.
734
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,560
How'd she wind up
here in the hospital?
735
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,900
Did they find out she was
informing and hurt her?
736
00:38:58,100 --> 00:38:59,560
Actually, kind of the opposite.
737
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,196
No, Wild Bill actually
beat her up pretty bad
738
00:39:01,220 --> 00:39:02,580
- before the robbery...
- Uh-hmm.
739
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,520
And she got pissed,
so she tipped us off
740
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,950
- as a way to get revenge.
- Mmm.
741
00:39:07,150 --> 00:39:09,240
She's not a big
fan of authority,
742
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,740
to say the least, and,
uh, she's a bit erratic.
743
00:39:12,940 --> 00:39:14,250
How so?
744
00:39:14,450 --> 00:39:17,370
God damn it! Come on!
745
00:39:18,910 --> 00:39:21,170
TV signal's shit in here, Angie.
746
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,170
Hey there, Carol. I'm Gary.
747
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,510
How's Wild Bill?
748
00:39:29,710 --> 00:39:31,260
Did he ask about me?
749
00:39:31,460 --> 00:39:33,100
He lawyered
up pretty quickly,
750
00:39:33,170 --> 00:39:35,560
so I honestly don't know
what he's asking about.
751
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,560
- Is he doing okay?
- Yeah,
752
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,560
for someone who's gonna spend
ten to twenty years in prison.
753
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,940
I didn't mean to get
him locked up that long.
754
00:39:43,140 --> 00:39:45,536
But that asshole shouldn't have
laid his hands on me like that.
755
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,230
You don't mess
with a lady's face!
756
00:39:48,190 --> 00:39:49,240
That's right.
757
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:50,240
That's right.
758
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:51,440
Uh-hmm.
759
00:39:53,030 --> 00:39:55,410
So Wild Bill had
made some allusions
760
00:39:55,610 --> 00:39:58,250
to some kind of payback
against the government.
761
00:39:58,450 --> 00:40:01,170
Did he ever speak to you
about anything like that?
762
00:40:01,370 --> 00:40:03,500
Gary?
763
00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:05,590
I ain't some kind of narc.
764
00:40:05,790 --> 00:40:08,340
I'm just a person who's sick
of her boyfriend's shit.
765
00:40:08,540 --> 00:40:09,800
Yeah, fair enough.
766
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,970
But, uh, I'd say
there's a difference
767
00:40:12,170 --> 00:40:14,140
between being a narc
and saving the lives
768
00:40:14,340 --> 00:40:16,140
of innocent people.
769
00:40:18,890 --> 00:40:20,600
Ain't nobody innocent.
770
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:23,600
Really?
771
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,700
Well, what about Elohim City?
Did you hear anyone there...
772
00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:33,280
speak about some sort
of planned payback?
773
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,830
I don't know about Elohim City.
774
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,390
Come on, Carol,
this is important.
775
00:40:52,590 --> 00:40:54,470
I'm trying to keep
people from getting hurt.
776
00:41:01,850 --> 00:41:02,850
Dammit.
777
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:05,960
I don't... the
people you're asking
778
00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:07,440
about at Elohim City,
779
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,480
they didn't really
talk to me much, okay?
780
00:41:11,150 --> 00:41:13,431
And I never heard anything
specific about anything,
781
00:41:13,610 --> 00:41:15,490
but I will tell you...
782
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,006
they talk a lot about
how the government
783
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:20,370
has turned on them.
784
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:26,920
They talk about
a holy war that's coming.
785
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,760
And they're gonna be
on the frontlines.
786
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,430
But that's nothing on its own.
787
00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:35,220
You know, I know plenty of
people who talk like that.
788
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,600
But the thing about
Elohim City is,
789
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,560
it's full of people who
tend to mean what they say.
790
00:41:45,730 --> 00:41:47,730
What does
that mean exactly?
791
00:41:50,770 --> 00:41:52,570
It means if payback is coming,
792
00:41:52,770 --> 00:41:54,810
then I would guess it's
gonna come from there.
793
00:42:00,570 --> 00:42:01,660
Yeah.
794
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,570
Nowhere
to run to, uh, uh
795
00:42:31,770 --> 00:42:36,740
Nowhere to hide
58967
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