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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:10,230 --> 00:00:11,956 Once negotiations broke down, 2 00:00:11,980 --> 00:00:13,740 we were left with little choice. 3 00:00:13,940 --> 00:00:15,950 The decision was made for us to insert gas 4 00:00:16,150 --> 00:00:18,870 in an effort to coerce those on the inside to come out. 5 00:00:20,910 --> 00:00:24,130 We followed protocol to a T. 6 00:00:24,330 --> 00:00:27,460 The Davidians were raining down gunfire on my men. 7 00:00:27,660 --> 00:00:29,436 It looked like Christmas out there with bullets hitting 8 00:00:29,460 --> 00:00:32,640 our tanks, and my men showed such restraint. 9 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,760 Not a single shot was returned from the FBI. 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,600 Now with that being said, are there tactics 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,180 or decisions that you would've made differently? 12 00:00:44,430 --> 00:00:45,770 Not a one. 13 00:00:47,100 --> 00:00:48,440 Not a one, huh? 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,280 This is not an assault. 15 00:00:50,390 --> 00:00:52,570 The siege is over now. 16 00:00:55,530 --> 00:00:58,740 The gas you will be smelling is a non-lethal tear gas. 17 00:00:58,940 --> 00:01:00,620 Exit the compound. 18 00:01:00,820 --> 00:01:02,260 M60 vehicle, 19 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:03,830 this combat engineering vehicle, 20 00:01:04,030 --> 00:01:05,500 uh, pumped tear gas... 21 00:01:08,790 --> 00:01:11,470 Gary, the Davidians had a death wish. 22 00:01:11,670 --> 00:01:13,510 That's not on the FBI. 23 00:01:13,710 --> 00:01:16,026 This thing was never gonna turn out any different than it did. 24 00:01:16,050 --> 00:01:17,890 If anything, we should've gone in sooner, 25 00:01:17,960 --> 00:01:19,520 once we realized that negotiations 26 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:20,880 weren't yielding any results. 27 00:01:21,010 --> 00:01:22,810 - No results? - Yeah. 28 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,020 You know I seem to recall negotiating 35 people out 29 00:01:29,230 --> 00:01:31,900 of that building safely, including 21 children. 30 00:01:32,100 --> 00:01:34,530 You're acting like we rushed in. 31 00:01:34,730 --> 00:01:37,910 We waited 51 days, we gave you 51 days 32 00:01:38,110 --> 00:01:40,370 to try to talk 'em out, and you couldn't do it. 33 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,680 Why isn't anyone coming out? They should be coming out. 34 00:01:47,370 --> 00:01:48,570 No! 35 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:51,880 inside this building. 36 00:01:51,910 --> 00:01:53,630 Seventeen of those 95 people, children. 37 00:01:53,750 --> 00:01:54,550 Some 30... 38 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,890 - We give up. We give up. - Okay. 39 00:02:00,090 --> 00:02:01,090 Somebody help me! 40 00:02:01,130 --> 00:02:02,730 We got people down here! 41 00:02:02,930 --> 00:02:05,480 Wait! Wait! 42 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,730 You failed, you didn't do your job, so we had to do ours. 43 00:02:08,930 --> 00:02:11,070 Gentlemen, why don't we all take a break? 44 00:02:11,270 --> 00:02:12,570 Hmm? 45 00:02:12,770 --> 00:02:15,740 Give everyone a chance to cool down. 46 00:02:15,940 --> 00:02:18,700 Gary, you need to get your shit together. 47 00:02:18,900 --> 00:02:20,240 We need to come clean, Alan. 48 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,040 - Oh. - People are angry 49 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,926 about what happened in Waco, and they're scared 50 00:02:23,950 --> 00:02:27,160 because they think that we did it on purpose. 51 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:29,670 And we're too scared 52 00:02:29,870 --> 00:02:31,226 to tell them the truth, that they're wrong. 53 00:02:31,250 --> 00:02:33,420 It wasn't part of some master plan. 54 00:02:33,620 --> 00:02:36,100 It was just a bunch of bad decisions and incompetence. 55 00:02:36,170 --> 00:02:37,930 Speak for yourself, Gary. 56 00:02:38,130 --> 00:02:39,890 Your men, they may have been incompetent. 57 00:02:40,090 --> 00:02:42,220 Mine sure weren't. 58 00:02:42,420 --> 00:02:44,270 Oh, yeah. 59 00:02:44,470 --> 00:02:47,770 Well, the medal is in the mail, Mitch. 60 00:02:47,970 --> 00:02:49,786 Sunny day today. We can expect 61 00:02:49,810 --> 00:02:51,906 much, much more of the same over the next few days. 62 00:02:51,930 --> 00:02:53,786 You might wanna do some of those outdoor activities 63 00:02:53,810 --> 00:02:55,456 - you've been saving up for. - Thanks, Sammy. 64 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:56,576 Coming up next, 65 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:57,910 the trial of the Waco Five 66 00:02:58,110 --> 00:02:59,780 begins in San Antonio this week 67 00:02:59,980 --> 00:03:02,700 as a federal grand jury indicted five of the surviving 68 00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:06,040 Branch Davidians for unlawful possession of firearms, 69 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,080 and aiding in the murder of federal officers. 70 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:10,880 You ask me, 71 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:12,766 it's the FBI that should be standing trial, 72 00:03:12,790 --> 00:03:14,800 not those religious nuts. 73 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,920 Our government just went in there, 74 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,640 burned those people alive, women and children. 75 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:21,800 I think every ATF and FBI agent 76 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,050 at Waco should go to jail. 77 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:27,000 .: Waco.The.Aftermath.S01E01.Truths.and.Consequences.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.H.264-NTb :. 78 00:04:39,590 --> 00:04:41,050 - Noesner. - Yeah. 79 00:04:41,250 --> 00:04:42,550 It's been awhile. 80 00:04:42,750 --> 00:04:44,316 Oh yeah, sure has, since what? 81 00:04:44,340 --> 00:04:46,010 The, uh, Atlanta Prison Riots? 82 00:04:46,210 --> 00:04:47,686 No, I feel like I've seen you since. 83 00:04:47,710 --> 00:04:50,390 Oh, yeah? So, uh, what's on the menu today? 84 00:04:50,590 --> 00:04:53,520 Well, we got four guys wearing ex-presidents masks. 85 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,860 Oh, like that movie Point Break? 86 00:04:57,060 --> 00:04:58,610 Never said they were original. 87 00:04:58,810 --> 00:05:00,826 No, these guys have been running around all over, 88 00:05:00,850 --> 00:05:02,700 robbing banks in Oklahoma, 89 00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:05,910 Arkansas, 21 in all. 90 00:05:06,110 --> 00:05:09,580 They're efficient, you know, smart, in and out, 90 seconds, 91 00:05:09,780 --> 00:05:12,290 so local authorities had had a hard time figuring out 92 00:05:12,490 --> 00:05:15,380 where they are until today when we got a last-minute tip 93 00:05:15,580 --> 00:05:18,550 that bank was gonna be their next target. 94 00:05:18,750 --> 00:05:20,476 Now, we managed to grab three of the guys, 95 00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:22,970 but one of them has barricaded himself inside, 96 00:05:23,170 --> 00:05:24,550 and he has hostages. 97 00:05:24,750 --> 00:05:26,066 We feel all four of these guys are members 98 00:05:26,090 --> 00:05:27,850 of the Aryan Republican Army. 99 00:05:28,050 --> 00:05:30,680 Oh, great. Nazis. 100 00:05:35,810 --> 00:05:37,560 What? 101 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,036 Hi, my name's Gary. 102 00:05:39,060 --> 00:05:40,110 Who am I speaking with? 103 00:05:40,310 --> 00:05:42,110 People call me "Wild Bill". 104 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:45,540 Well, Wild Bill, I'm here to help you. 105 00:05:45,650 --> 00:05:47,296 Yeah? Well, you can help me 106 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:48,410 by getting me a helicopter, 107 00:05:48,610 --> 00:05:49,790 and I want it now 108 00:05:49,990 --> 00:05:51,470 or I'm gonna start killing people. 109 00:05:51,650 --> 00:05:53,636 And don't even think about trying to come in here 110 00:05:53,660 --> 00:05:55,136 because I got a pipe bomb and I will blow 111 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:56,960 this place sky high if you try it. 112 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:58,346 Let me look into getting you that helicopter. 113 00:05:58,370 --> 00:05:59,920 I'm serious! 114 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,080 I'm taking you seriously, Wild Bill. 115 00:06:02,210 --> 00:06:04,680 - Is Bomb Squad present? - Uh-hmm. 116 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,260 Good. Keep 'em ready. 117 00:06:08,170 --> 00:06:09,856 All right. So, uh, they're gonna need 118 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:11,486 a little time getting you that helicopter. 119 00:06:11,510 --> 00:06:13,390 - No. I want it now! - I do, too. 120 00:06:13,590 --> 00:06:15,590 But right now, the only available helicopter 121 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,100 is 50 miles away. 122 00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:18,786 In the meantime, maybe you can tell me 123 00:06:18,810 --> 00:06:20,400 how you got into this mess? 124 00:06:21,690 --> 00:06:23,820 Yeah. I got into this mess 125 00:06:24,020 --> 00:06:27,700 because somebody has to fight back. 126 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:30,990 You can only push people so far. 127 00:06:31,190 --> 00:06:32,620 That's very true. 128 00:07:33,050 --> 00:07:35,930 Who gave you permission to use that thing in here? 129 00:07:36,130 --> 00:07:39,560 I'm a big boy, I gave myself permission. 130 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,730 Machines are not allowed in here without a court order. 131 00:07:42,930 --> 00:07:45,650 Okay. Here's my court order. 132 00:07:45,850 --> 00:07:47,070 Funny. 133 00:07:47,270 --> 00:07:49,570 I don't see my signature on that. 134 00:07:52,530 --> 00:07:53,870 Judge Smith. 135 00:07:54,070 --> 00:07:58,080 I'm Dan Cogdell. I represent Clive Doyle. 136 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,790 You're not defending anybody with that thing in here. 137 00:08:00,990 --> 00:08:03,710 I want it gone by the time we begin. 138 00:08:03,910 --> 00:08:07,050 Uh, but, Your Honor, I have all my notes in it. 139 00:08:07,250 --> 00:08:08,686 Then I suggest you find a way 140 00:08:08,710 --> 00:08:10,590 to get your notes out of it. 141 00:08:14,340 --> 00:08:16,720 Oh, shit. 142 00:08:23,970 --> 00:08:26,320 Baby killers! 143 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:27,940 How come they hate us so much? 144 00:08:28,140 --> 00:08:29,360 They don't even know us. 145 00:08:32,650 --> 00:08:34,030 We'll be okay... 146 00:08:35,700 --> 00:08:37,200 somehow. 147 00:08:43,250 --> 00:08:45,130 You wanted to present a motion? 148 00:08:45,870 --> 00:08:47,800 I did, Your Honor. 149 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,800 I would ask to predefine inflammatory words. 150 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:53,300 Inflammatory words? 151 00:08:53,500 --> 00:08:54,800 Yes, Your Honor, we would move 152 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,640 to make certain words inadmissible. 153 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,140 Which words would you recommend we ban, Mr. Cogdell? 154 00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:03,900 Well, for example, 155 00:09:04,100 --> 00:09:06,900 we would motion to exclude the word "compound" 156 00:09:07,100 --> 00:09:09,400 when referring to the home at Mount Carmel, 157 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,950 as the word "compound" has militaristic connotations. 158 00:09:12,150 --> 00:09:14,410 At this point the word "compound" has been used 159 00:09:14,610 --> 00:09:16,870 a million times to refer to Mount Carmel. 160 00:09:17,070 --> 00:09:19,080 But to the defendants this was not a compound, 161 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:20,620 this was their home 162 00:09:20,820 --> 00:09:22,420 where they lived and raised children, 163 00:09:22,570 --> 00:09:24,346 where they had a God-given right to practice their... 164 00:09:24,370 --> 00:09:27,000 Save it for the trial, Mr. Cogdell. 165 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:28,920 Denied. Next. 166 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:30,516 We would like to exclude the term 167 00:09:30,540 --> 00:09:31,920 "Branch Davidians". 168 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:33,646 They never call themselves by that name. 169 00:09:33,670 --> 00:09:35,090 Objection. 170 00:09:35,290 --> 00:09:36,816 If we can't call them Branch Davidians, 171 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,606 then what are we supposed to call them? 172 00:09:38,630 --> 00:09:40,106 - Out to lunch? - Well, I think 173 00:09:40,130 --> 00:09:41,520 we can all agree that moniker 174 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,196 has been thoroughly tarnished by the media. 175 00:09:43,220 --> 00:09:44,616 The term "Branch Davidian" 176 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,610 was tarnished by their own actions. 177 00:09:46,810 --> 00:09:49,020 But, Your Honor, they are not on trial 178 00:09:49,220 --> 00:09:50,650 for their religious beliefs. 179 00:09:50,850 --> 00:09:52,616 The defense used the term "Branch Davidians" 180 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:53,640 in their own filings. 181 00:09:53,730 --> 00:09:54,820 I have a motion here filed 182 00:09:55,020 --> 00:09:56,260 by Rocket Rosen of the defense. 183 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:57,820 Who's Rocket Rosen? 184 00:09:58,020 --> 00:10:00,200 I am, Your Honor. 185 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:01,200 Your name is Rocket? 186 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:02,450 Yes, Your Honor. 187 00:10:02,650 --> 00:10:04,210 I was born on the 4th of July, 188 00:10:04,410 --> 00:10:06,040 so my daddy named me Rocket. 189 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:10,710 Well, I was born on October 26, so my daddy named me Walter. 190 00:10:12,130 --> 00:10:14,010 - Did you file this motion? - I did. 191 00:10:14,210 --> 00:10:16,476 - But that was a mistake. - Motion denied. 192 00:10:16,500 --> 00:10:18,220 Next. 193 00:10:18,420 --> 00:10:20,220 The word "cult". 194 00:10:20,420 --> 00:10:23,060 Do they not yet realize that this was a cult? 195 00:10:23,260 --> 00:10:24,520 This was no cult. 196 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:25,890 It was a communal church 197 00:10:26,090 --> 00:10:27,730 and David Koresh was their pastor. 198 00:10:27,930 --> 00:10:30,900 Once that pastor takes 20 wives 199 00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:32,940 and leads his church to mass suicide, 200 00:10:33,140 --> 00:10:35,360 I would say the word "cult" is applicable. 201 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:39,120 But the defendants are not on trial for mass suicide. 202 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,586 Nobody thinks that any one of them had anything to do 203 00:10:41,610 --> 00:10:44,370 with any fire or had multiple wives 204 00:10:44,570 --> 00:10:46,580 or took child brides or any of it. 205 00:10:46,780 --> 00:10:48,710 Using the word "cult" is an attempt 206 00:10:48,910 --> 00:10:51,290 to try our clients for another man's sins. 207 00:10:51,500 --> 00:10:52,620 Motion denied. 208 00:10:52,660 --> 00:10:53,740 My client Clive Doyle 209 00:10:53,830 --> 00:10:54,880 was there 15 years 210 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:56,880 before David Koresh's arrival. 211 00:10:59,090 --> 00:11:01,840 Rose and thorn, Karen? 212 00:11:03,340 --> 00:11:06,560 My thorn is I didn't sleep 213 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,520 very well 'cause Shari kept stealing all the covers. 214 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,280 And rose, I got extra oatmeal at breakfast. 215 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,610 Well, how about you, Shari? 216 00:11:17,810 --> 00:11:20,070 Rose, playing. 217 00:11:20,270 --> 00:11:21,950 Thorn, Karen. 218 00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:25,620 How about you, Dad? 219 00:11:25,820 --> 00:11:30,210 Thorn is my back's been hurting me again. 220 00:11:30,410 --> 00:11:35,170 My rose is that I get to spend this moment right now 221 00:11:35,370 --> 00:11:39,260 with my two favorite people in the entire world, you two. 222 00:11:39,460 --> 00:11:41,430 I have never wavered on this, George, 223 00:11:41,630 --> 00:11:44,810 you don't wear a sidearm for Sabbath service. 224 00:11:45,010 --> 00:11:47,140 Why do you think you're so special, mama? 225 00:11:47,340 --> 00:11:48,816 That you get to make all the rules? 226 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,020 Because I am your prophet. 227 00:12:15,790 --> 00:12:17,170 Don't mind him. 228 00:12:18,380 --> 00:12:20,970 My name is Vernon Howell. 229 00:12:21,170 --> 00:12:24,760 I'm looking for the Prophet Lois Roden. 230 00:12:26,050 --> 00:12:27,180 Come in. 231 00:12:28,970 --> 00:12:30,930 Service is starting. 232 00:12:35,140 --> 00:12:36,366 That's what you don't get. 233 00:12:36,390 --> 00:12:37,860 It's about being a patriot 234 00:12:38,060 --> 00:12:40,150 'cause this country has lost its way. 235 00:12:40,350 --> 00:12:42,530 It's turned against the people 236 00:12:42,730 --> 00:12:44,046 who made it great in the first place. 237 00:12:44,070 --> 00:12:45,270 So what are we supposed to do? 238 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,376 Just wait for things to change 239 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:47,660 or do we fight back? 240 00:12:47,860 --> 00:12:49,580 And in your eyes, robbing banks 241 00:12:49,780 --> 00:12:51,540 is a way of fighting back? 242 00:12:51,740 --> 00:12:54,080 No, robbing banks was never the point. 243 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:55,660 Then what is? 244 00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:59,670 Yeah. You'll see. 245 00:13:02,170 --> 00:13:03,510 Yeah, payback's coming. 246 00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:05,300 It's coming sooner than you think. 247 00:13:08,590 --> 00:13:12,260 Look, we've been talking now for 20 hours. 248 00:13:13,970 --> 00:13:15,560 And it seems to me that you and I 249 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:16,826 aren't gonna agree on much. 250 00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:19,690 So maybe we could focus 251 00:13:19,890 --> 00:13:21,070 on what we do agree on. 252 00:13:22,780 --> 00:13:24,190 Yeah, like what? 253 00:13:25,650 --> 00:13:27,586 Like you and your friends have robbed 254 00:13:27,610 --> 00:13:28,990 21 banks successfully, 255 00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:30,750 nobody hurt, perfectly executed. 256 00:13:30,950 --> 00:13:32,750 No, I'm not admitting the other banks. 257 00:13:32,950 --> 00:13:34,870 I'm not asking you to do that. 258 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,250 But you see to the world right now, you're a legend. 259 00:13:39,450 --> 00:13:42,170 You're Robin Hood, 22 banks and you haven't 260 00:13:42,370 --> 00:13:44,840 hurt a single person. 261 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,220 Now you'll do a few years' time for sure. 262 00:13:47,420 --> 00:13:49,260 But then, who knows? 263 00:13:49,460 --> 00:13:51,770 Maybe you'd sell your movie rights 264 00:13:51,970 --> 00:13:54,480 to Hollywood and go sip margaritas on a beach. 265 00:13:56,510 --> 00:14:00,650 But the second you take someone's life, 266 00:14:00,850 --> 00:14:03,360 you are just another murderer. 267 00:14:04,780 --> 00:14:06,820 And nobody will care 268 00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:09,620 what you have to say ever again. 269 00:14:09,820 --> 00:14:13,660 You come out of that bank and you're gonna have options. 270 00:14:13,860 --> 00:14:17,210 You come out of that bank, you're gonna have a future. 271 00:14:17,410 --> 00:14:20,880 You want people to hear what you have to say, 272 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:22,960 then come out of the bank. 273 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:35,060 Don't shoot! Unarmed! Unarmed! 274 00:14:35,260 --> 00:14:37,390 Clear! Get down on your knees. 275 00:14:38,850 --> 00:14:40,560 Hands on your head. 276 00:14:41,770 --> 00:14:43,310 Interlace your fingers. 277 00:14:48,070 --> 00:14:50,330 Our best strategy is going to be to convince 278 00:14:50,530 --> 00:14:53,450 the jury that David Koresh was misunderstood. 279 00:14:53,650 --> 00:14:55,490 We need to humanize him, make him seem less 280 00:14:55,530 --> 00:14:57,540 like the boogeyman, more relatable. 281 00:14:57,740 --> 00:14:59,040 David Koresh was 282 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,540 an opportunistic narcissistic piece of shit. 283 00:15:01,750 --> 00:15:04,630 We're not in the business of defending Koresh. 284 00:15:04,830 --> 00:15:06,340 He's dead. 285 00:15:06,540 --> 00:15:07,760 Well, if that's how you feel, 286 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,266 then why'd you even take this case? 287 00:15:09,290 --> 00:15:11,300 The issue can't be whether or not 288 00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:12,760 Koresh was the messiah. 289 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,390 If that's our case, then they win, 290 00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:17,140 because guess what? 291 00:15:17,340 --> 00:15:18,560 He wasn't. 292 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,860 Our case has to be about the fact 293 00:15:21,060 --> 00:15:22,650 the United States government 294 00:15:22,850 --> 00:15:25,190 raided these people's home without cause. 295 00:15:25,390 --> 00:15:27,950 And it was their overreach, their hubris 296 00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:31,120 that led to the deaths of 76 people including 17 children. 297 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,200 And in America, you don't get to do that 298 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,676 because, if they can do what they did to our clients 299 00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:37,710 and get away with it, it'll give everyone 300 00:15:37,910 --> 00:15:40,460 with a badge and a gun from a Wackenhut security guard 301 00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:42,540 to Janet Reno the authority 302 00:15:42,740 --> 00:15:44,210 to do whatever they want, 303 00:15:44,410 --> 00:15:45,410 to whomever they want, 304 00:15:45,580 --> 00:15:47,130 however they want. 305 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:50,550 And that's the argument we need to make. 306 00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:52,390 - Amen. - Yeah. 307 00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:56,310 What in the hell is that asshole doing here? 308 00:15:56,510 --> 00:15:58,030 You get lost, Johnston, or are you, 309 00:15:58,180 --> 00:16:00,230 uh, here to beg for mercy? 310 00:16:00,430 --> 00:16:04,440 Neither. I've got an offer for you. 311 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,690 They're offering 15 years with the possibility of parole. 312 00:16:07,890 --> 00:16:10,740 What would I have to do if I did take the deal? 313 00:16:10,940 --> 00:16:13,240 You'd have to plead guilty and then testify 314 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,870 against the other members of your group. 315 00:16:16,070 --> 00:16:18,200 No, wait, wait, wait. 316 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:19,840 Before you close your mind to it, 317 00:16:19,990 --> 00:16:21,550 you should know that they've offered 318 00:16:21,740 --> 00:16:23,420 the same deal to all five of you. 319 00:16:23,620 --> 00:16:25,710 If you don't take it, you face the possibility 320 00:16:25,910 --> 00:16:27,500 of life without parole. 321 00:16:28,750 --> 00:16:31,260 But I didn't do anything. 322 00:16:31,460 --> 00:16:34,350 Clive, unfortunately, that doesn't matter. 323 00:16:34,550 --> 00:16:36,260 It's a conspiracy charge. 324 00:16:36,460 --> 00:16:39,390 If any single one of you is found guilty, 325 00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:41,730 then you're all guilty. 326 00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:44,940 If any one of you pulled the trigger of a gun, 327 00:16:45,140 --> 00:16:47,110 then you all pulled the trigger. 328 00:16:47,310 --> 00:16:49,280 You're gonna rise and fall together. 329 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,780 You got until opening statements to decide 330 00:16:51,980 --> 00:16:54,530 and then the deal's off the table. 331 00:16:56,030 --> 00:16:58,370 Here is what is going to happen. 332 00:16:58,570 --> 00:17:00,790 Instead of arguing about this juror 333 00:17:00,990 --> 00:17:02,250 or that juror, 334 00:17:02,450 --> 00:17:05,040 going back and forth, you, then you. 335 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,800 I am gonna save us a whole lot of time 336 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:10,470 and the American taxpayer 337 00:17:10,670 --> 00:17:12,630 a lot of money and help pick the jury myself. 338 00:17:12,710 --> 00:17:13,760 So you can all relax. 339 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,640 Objection, Your Honor. 340 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:17,810 You can't object to me. I'm the judge. 341 00:17:18,010 --> 00:17:19,850 Well, then, uh, exception. 342 00:17:21,220 --> 00:17:22,350 Noted. 343 00:17:26,220 --> 00:17:27,390 Can he do that? 344 00:17:32,020 --> 00:17:34,530 How do you feel about people who join a cult? 345 00:17:34,730 --> 00:17:35,780 Objection. 346 00:17:35,980 --> 00:17:38,990 Exception, Your Hon... shit. 347 00:17:39,190 --> 00:17:40,296 How do you feel 348 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:41,960 about people who join 349 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,420 extremist religious groups? 350 00:17:44,620 --> 00:17:47,170 I do have negative feelings towards people 351 00:17:47,370 --> 00:17:51,010 who abuse children if that's what you're asking. 352 00:17:51,210 --> 00:17:52,930 Or people who give their sense of choice 353 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,340 over to false prophets. 354 00:17:55,540 --> 00:17:57,180 You can stay. 355 00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:59,680 So, Clive, how'd you come to be here? 356 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:02,230 My mom and I heard some of Lois's teachings, 357 00:18:02,430 --> 00:18:04,680 so we followed that message all the way here. 358 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,440 That was 15 years ago. 359 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:08,946 All the way from Australia? 360 00:18:08,970 --> 00:18:11,030 I don't think I'll ever leave. 361 00:18:11,230 --> 00:18:12,690 Wow. 362 00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:17,450 How about you? What brought you here? 363 00:18:17,650 --> 00:18:18,900 Me? 364 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,080 Well, I learned to read by reading the Bible. 365 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,670 I can't see so well, you know, all the letters 366 00:18:25,870 --> 00:18:28,840 get mixed up and stuff, so I have trouble reading books, 367 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:30,960 but the Bible. 368 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,500 Man, I could just sit and read it like magic. 369 00:18:35,550 --> 00:18:36,800 And you know what struck me? 370 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,350 Huh. 371 00:18:39,550 --> 00:18:42,180 I mean, for years, I asked anyone who might know, 372 00:18:42,380 --> 00:18:44,560 "Hey, what happened to all those old prophets? 373 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,310 Are there any still living now? 374 00:18:46,510 --> 00:18:49,060 Or did they all get stuck here in this old book?" 375 00:18:49,260 --> 00:18:50,730 And they'd say, "Quiet, boy. 376 00:18:50,930 --> 00:18:52,206 Sit down and listen to what we're teachin'." 377 00:18:53,940 --> 00:18:55,916 But nobody could answer that one question. 378 00:18:55,940 --> 00:18:58,410 So I turned to God and I asked Him, 379 00:18:58,610 --> 00:19:02,910 "Please, if there's a prophet, please lead me there." 380 00:19:04,490 --> 00:19:06,540 Then three days later, out of the blue, 381 00:19:06,740 --> 00:19:08,506 my grandma tells me about some prophet out here 382 00:19:08,530 --> 00:19:10,330 on the plains of Waco. 383 00:19:10,540 --> 00:19:12,340 Her name was Lois Roden, 384 00:19:12,540 --> 00:19:14,630 and she lived at a place called Mount Carmel. 385 00:19:17,050 --> 00:19:19,340 Went to my room, packed my stuff, 386 00:19:19,540 --> 00:19:21,130 got here as fast as I could. 387 00:19:23,140 --> 00:19:26,510 That's... like a miracle. 388 00:19:28,020 --> 00:19:31,190 Yeah, that's what I thought too. 389 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,700 Did they offer you all the plea deal too? 390 00:19:47,870 --> 00:19:49,310 My lawyer told me the worst thing 391 00:19:49,450 --> 00:19:50,676 that could happen is someone else 392 00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:52,210 taking the deal if I don't. 393 00:19:54,330 --> 00:19:58,630 Man, the government wants their pound of flesh 394 00:19:58,830 --> 00:20:00,220 and they're gonna get it 395 00:20:00,420 --> 00:20:02,066 if we don't stay strong and stick together. 396 00:20:02,090 --> 00:20:03,810 Look around this room. 397 00:20:04,010 --> 00:20:06,640 Do you expect anyone is actually going to think 398 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,390 Clive shot federal agents in cold blood? 399 00:20:10,430 --> 00:20:12,150 Or Ruth? 400 00:20:12,350 --> 00:20:14,570 It doesn't matter what they think. 401 00:20:14,770 --> 00:20:17,070 If they think any of us did it, then we all did it. 402 00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:18,650 I wasn't even there. 403 00:20:18,850 --> 00:20:22,410 Do you think any of this is about truth? 404 00:20:22,610 --> 00:20:24,660 Or fairness? Or justice? Because it's not. 405 00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:26,580 It is about anger. 406 00:20:26,780 --> 00:20:30,500 They are gonna roll over us no matter what we do. 407 00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:31,886 So we may as well get through this 408 00:20:31,910 --> 00:20:34,290 with our dignity intact. 409 00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:38,670 The government can make up whatever story they want 410 00:20:38,870 --> 00:20:41,130 about what happened inside Mount Carmel, 411 00:20:41,330 --> 00:20:43,470 but no one knows what you did 412 00:20:43,670 --> 00:20:45,850 or didn't do behind closed doors, 413 00:20:46,050 --> 00:20:48,980 nobody but the people in this room. 414 00:20:49,180 --> 00:20:51,140 So if we stay united 415 00:20:51,340 --> 00:20:53,730 and refute their story, then... 416 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:58,020 maybe we have a chance. 417 00:21:21,670 --> 00:21:23,460 Oh, shit. 418 00:21:27,130 --> 00:21:30,060 Hey, Dusty, mind if I pick your brain about something? 419 00:21:30,260 --> 00:21:32,640 I was looking at Wild Bill's file. 420 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:34,736 Why? We already put him in jail. 421 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,230 Well, Wild Bill and his friends successfully robbed 21 banks. 422 00:21:38,430 --> 00:21:39,610 But in their files, 423 00:21:39,810 --> 00:21:40,916 it doesn't seem as though they made 424 00:21:40,940 --> 00:21:43,400 any conspicuous purchases. 425 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,910 That, combined with his comment about "payback," 426 00:21:46,110 --> 00:21:47,580 it was bugging me 427 00:21:47,780 --> 00:21:49,216 and I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. 428 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,870 So I took a closer look and I found this. 429 00:21:53,070 --> 00:21:54,410 What am I looking at? 430 00:21:55,370 --> 00:21:56,960 You see that flag? 431 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,420 That's the same flag they flew over at Mount Carmel. 432 00:22:00,620 --> 00:22:02,800 David Koresh designed it himself. 433 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,380 Huh. 434 00:22:04,580 --> 00:22:08,300 Did Wild Bill have some connection to Waco? 435 00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:10,100 I doubt it. 436 00:22:10,300 --> 00:22:13,100 The flag is probably used more as a recruitment tool 437 00:22:13,300 --> 00:22:15,850 to fire people up. 438 00:22:16,050 --> 00:22:18,440 Any sense where that photo was taken? 439 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,020 It doesn't say in the file. 440 00:22:21,730 --> 00:22:23,360 It looks like Elohim City to me. 441 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,030 It's a town of sorts. 442 00:22:25,230 --> 00:22:28,570 Started in the early '70s by a group of former Mennonites, 443 00:22:28,770 --> 00:22:30,930 which gave birth to the Christian Identity movement, 444 00:22:30,990 --> 00:22:32,250 which is, basically... 445 00:22:32,450 --> 00:22:33,546 Christianity for White Supremacists. 446 00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:35,210 Uh-hmm. 447 00:22:35,410 --> 00:22:37,386 We'd need a serious warrant and a small army to go in there. 448 00:22:37,410 --> 00:22:39,806 Something which, after Waco, I don't think any of our bosses 449 00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:41,540 would be willing to take a chance on. 450 00:22:46,090 --> 00:22:48,670 Clive Doyle, you have a visitor. 451 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,140 Let's go. 452 00:22:56,930 --> 00:22:58,310 Some of the other families 453 00:22:58,510 --> 00:23:00,150 mentioned something about a plea deal? 454 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,200 It's true. They've offered one. 455 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,530 I'm not sure I'm gonna take the deal, Karen. 456 00:23:11,410 --> 00:23:12,450 Why not? 457 00:23:14,990 --> 00:23:17,960 Because they want us to say it was our fault. 458 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:19,160 And it wasn't. 459 00:23:19,330 --> 00:23:21,160 Just get out, Dad. 460 00:23:22,790 --> 00:23:26,760 Shari's gone, everything's gone. 461 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,180 How much more do you feel like you have to suffer? 462 00:23:29,380 --> 00:23:31,760 I loved David too, but it's over! 463 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:32,960 I need my father back. 464 00:23:33,050 --> 00:23:34,640 I know, but... 465 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,100 You've already lost, Dad. 466 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:40,680 There's no more point in fighting it. 467 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:44,770 Anne... 468 00:23:46,650 --> 00:23:48,530 she needs her grandfather. 469 00:23:50,860 --> 00:23:52,110 What? 470 00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:56,620 Really? 471 00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:04,500 There's your rose. 472 00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:07,550 Is it? 473 00:24:32,860 --> 00:24:34,700 It's 15 years of loyalty, 474 00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:37,750 15 years of putting my life on the line and then for what? 475 00:24:37,950 --> 00:24:39,160 For what? 476 00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:40,596 Hey, hey, get your hands off me, man. 477 00:24:40,620 --> 00:24:41,830 Get off me. 478 00:24:49,210 --> 00:24:51,170 - Weren't you... - Yeah. 479 00:24:52,380 --> 00:24:53,890 Yeah, yeah, we've met. 480 00:24:54,090 --> 00:24:55,380 Right. 481 00:25:00,220 --> 00:25:01,720 Do you wanna get a drink? 482 00:25:03,020 --> 00:25:04,190 On the fire ants? 483 00:25:04,390 --> 00:25:06,860 On the goddamn fire ants. 484 00:25:07,060 --> 00:25:09,240 Oh, Jesus. 485 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,536 I mean, why anybody would build their heaven on earth 486 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,150 on top of a goddamn fire ant hill is just beyond me. 487 00:25:18,570 --> 00:25:19,966 So, come on, why'd... why did you... 488 00:25:19,990 --> 00:25:21,370 Why did you ask me here? 489 00:25:21,570 --> 00:25:23,750 Come on, I know it wasn't to talk about fire ants. 490 00:25:26,290 --> 00:25:28,420 Because my wife thinks I should talk to someone 491 00:25:28,620 --> 00:25:29,710 and, uh... 492 00:25:31,250 --> 00:25:32,550 there aren't a lot of people 493 00:25:32,750 --> 00:25:34,760 who know what it was like to be there. 494 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,470 You have regrets? 495 00:25:37,670 --> 00:25:40,640 I just keep wondering if I did this differently 496 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,480 or if I said that differently, 497 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,200 then maybe things could've turned out different, you know. 498 00:25:45,350 --> 00:25:47,390 Yeah, I do that too. 499 00:25:49,270 --> 00:25:51,900 And then there are times that I wonder if you were just... 500 00:25:53,230 --> 00:25:55,410 just damned from the start. 501 00:25:55,610 --> 00:25:57,050 We weren't damned from the start. 502 00:25:57,190 --> 00:25:59,450 We damned ourselves through our own stupidity. 503 00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,950 Mmm. 504 00:26:02,150 --> 00:26:04,120 What do you know about Elohim City? 505 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,080 I know they're a bunch of racist assholes, 506 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,556 but other than that, you know, it's not my department, 507 00:26:09,580 --> 00:26:11,920 so I don't really pay attention to it. 508 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:14,880 But this man from Elohim City, he was so angry. 509 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:16,720 Uh-hmm. 510 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,930 And I just keep thinking about the... 511 00:26:20,130 --> 00:26:22,640 people protesting at the barricades at Waco 512 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,770 and I just feel this... 513 00:26:27,890 --> 00:26:31,440 this undercurrent of rage in America. 514 00:26:34,980 --> 00:26:37,870 And I think we helped create the monster 515 00:26:38,070 --> 00:26:39,860 we're trying to stop. 516 00:26:47,660 --> 00:26:50,210 Look, I know someone working the Elohim City case. 517 00:26:50,410 --> 00:26:52,670 And, uh, I might be able to set you up. 518 00:26:59,130 --> 00:27:01,470 This is blasphemy! 519 00:27:02,590 --> 00:27:04,520 I won't stand for it. 520 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,020 I speak the truth. 521 00:27:06,220 --> 00:27:07,650 God handles the consequences. 522 00:27:07,850 --> 00:27:11,270 George, the Holy Spirit is feminine. 523 00:27:11,470 --> 00:27:13,610 We live in a male dominated society 524 00:27:13,810 --> 00:27:16,280 and it has resulted in a male dominated translation 525 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:17,820 of the Bible. 526 00:27:18,020 --> 00:27:21,280 There is the Father, there is the Son, 527 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:22,910 and the Holy Spirit is mother. 528 00:27:24,530 --> 00:27:25,870 Lois is right. 529 00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:29,830 What did you just say? 530 00:27:31,290 --> 00:27:33,210 I said, "Lois is right." 531 00:27:33,410 --> 00:27:34,960 I never saw it before 532 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,300 but she's mentioned all over the Old Testament. 533 00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:39,050 Proverbs 31:25, 534 00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:40,856 "She is clothed with strength and dignity, 535 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,970 and she laughs without fear of the future." 536 00:27:43,170 --> 00:27:44,430 Proverbs 31:10, 537 00:27:44,630 --> 00:27:46,106 "She is far more precious than jewels." 538 00:27:46,130 --> 00:27:47,600 Psalms 46:5, 539 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,120 "God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved." 540 00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:52,190 - Quiet! - Proverbs 31:26, 541 00:27:52,390 --> 00:27:54,190 "She opens her mouth with wisdom, 542 00:27:54,390 --> 00:27:57,190 and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue." 543 00:27:57,390 --> 00:28:00,070 Matthew 11:19, Luke 3:22. 544 00:28:00,270 --> 00:28:01,916 There are dozens of examples in the Bible 545 00:28:01,940 --> 00:28:04,740 where the Holy Spirit is referred to as "she". 546 00:28:04,940 --> 00:28:07,100 I mean, George, are you saying the Bible is wrong? 547 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,790 No. 548 00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:12,590 Of course, I'm not saying the Bible is wrong. 549 00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:36,530 Probably won't get you laid, 550 00:28:36,730 --> 00:28:38,520 but it'll make you look more respectable. 551 00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:45,490 Have you decided on the plea deal? 552 00:28:45,690 --> 00:28:48,000 This is your last chance to take it. 553 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,080 You should be more careful with George. 554 00:28:54,210 --> 00:28:55,790 He can be pretty mean. 555 00:28:57,790 --> 00:29:00,300 I'm not worried about old George Roden. 556 00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:02,140 He's not the first bully I dealt with. 557 00:29:02,210 --> 00:29:04,720 I'm sure he won't be the last. 558 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,810 "So do not fear, for I am with you. 559 00:29:07,010 --> 00:29:09,140 Do not be dismayed, for I am your God. 560 00:29:09,340 --> 00:29:11,690 I will strengthen you and I will help you. 561 00:29:11,890 --> 00:29:14,900 I will uphold you with my righteous right hand." 562 00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:17,270 Isaiah said that. 563 00:29:17,470 --> 00:29:19,530 You can go hide all your life, 564 00:29:19,730 --> 00:29:21,200 but then the whole world 565 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,950 winds up getting run by the George Rodens everywhere. 566 00:29:24,150 --> 00:29:25,620 That's no way to please the Lord. 567 00:29:25,820 --> 00:29:26,910 No. 568 00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:28,790 You gotta show that faith. 569 00:29:28,990 --> 00:29:30,790 You got to show it by standing up, 570 00:29:30,990 --> 00:29:33,830 by doing what's right, 571 00:29:34,030 --> 00:29:35,466 regardless of what all them bullies 572 00:29:35,490 --> 00:29:37,170 tell you what they think you should do. 573 00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:40,766 It's just that George is sick in the head. 574 00:29:40,790 --> 00:29:42,220 He's... he's violent. 575 00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:44,510 You don't understand what he's capable of. 576 00:29:56,890 --> 00:29:59,310 He doesn't know what I'm capable of either. 577 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,360 I'm stronger than they realize. 578 00:30:06,150 --> 00:30:09,200 And so are you, Clive Doyle. 579 00:30:13,370 --> 00:30:15,160 I don't give in to bullies. 580 00:30:16,870 --> 00:30:20,710 It's our job to do what's right. 581 00:30:20,910 --> 00:30:23,210 And it's God's job to sort out the rest. 582 00:30:24,630 --> 00:30:28,050 Okay, then let's go give 'em hell. 583 00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:56,296 So, I've just had breakfast 584 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:57,920 with defendant Schroeder, 585 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,266 and she's going to be playing for the home team now, 586 00:31:00,290 --> 00:31:02,880 so get some statements over... 587 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,800 But I just wanted to let you know for now. 588 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:07,840 Good morning, by the way. 589 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,440 Kathy Schroeder just flipped. 590 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:19,730 She took the plea deal 591 00:31:19,930 --> 00:31:22,150 and she's turning state's witness. 592 00:31:22,350 --> 00:31:24,150 Kathy's going to testify against us? 593 00:31:24,350 --> 00:31:25,350 Yeah. 594 00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:36,910 Now this is a simple story... 595 00:31:37,790 --> 00:31:39,620 with two clear sides. 596 00:31:40,830 --> 00:31:42,880 The government agents 597 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:46,040 who went in to serve a legal search warrant... 598 00:31:47,460 --> 00:31:51,300 and the Branch Davidians, led by David Koresh, 599 00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:55,680 who adhered to a philosophy of death. 600 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,190 A philosophy that led Koresh 601 00:31:58,390 --> 00:32:01,060 to train his people for battle 602 00:32:01,260 --> 00:32:02,730 and arm them for war, 603 00:32:02,930 --> 00:32:06,320 so that when those agents approached Mount Carmel 604 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,660 to do their legal duty, 605 00:32:09,860 --> 00:32:13,700 the defendants laid in wait with guns in their hands. 606 00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:16,290 And when the agents got close enough, 607 00:32:16,490 --> 00:32:19,040 the Branch Davidians opened fire, 608 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,380 murdering four federal officers 609 00:32:22,580 --> 00:32:24,380 in cold blood. 610 00:32:24,580 --> 00:32:26,790 These men and women aren't killers. 611 00:32:28,340 --> 00:32:29,710 They're victims. 612 00:32:32,090 --> 00:32:36,470 First, they were victimized by David Koresh, 613 00:32:36,670 --> 00:32:40,810 a charismatic con man who brainwashed them 614 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,730 into believing he was a messiah on earth. 615 00:32:53,700 --> 00:32:56,410 And then they were victimized by the ATF, 616 00:32:57,530 --> 00:32:59,870 who led an unnecessary 617 00:33:00,070 --> 00:33:02,120 ill-advised assault on their home 618 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,380 that left 76 of their friends and family, 619 00:33:05,580 --> 00:33:08,380 and even their children, dead. 620 00:33:08,580 --> 00:33:10,436 You're making us look like sheep, 621 00:33:10,460 --> 00:33:12,130 like we just blindly followed David 622 00:33:12,330 --> 00:33:13,800 with no minds of our own. 623 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,856 This isn't the strategy we talked about before. 624 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,260 We weren't brainwashed. 625 00:33:17,460 --> 00:33:19,560 We were defending something real. 626 00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:20,890 We all believed in 627 00:33:21,090 --> 00:33:22,196 because we saw it with our own eyes. 628 00:33:22,220 --> 00:33:25,270 My husband was shot dead 629 00:33:25,470 --> 00:33:26,770 and ripped to pieces 630 00:33:26,970 --> 00:33:29,610 by a government tank because of those beliefs. 631 00:33:29,810 --> 00:33:31,780 It's not just the four of us on trial here. 632 00:33:31,980 --> 00:33:35,950 When you say that what we believe in is stupid, 633 00:33:36,150 --> 00:33:38,040 you're saying that the people that we loved 634 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,200 who burned in that building died for nothing. 635 00:33:41,410 --> 00:33:43,420 I don't give a rat's ass about your religion. 636 00:33:43,620 --> 00:33:46,040 And frankly, I don't even care if you look sane. 637 00:33:47,670 --> 00:33:50,630 All I care about is keeping you out of jail. 638 00:33:50,830 --> 00:33:52,210 That's my only focus here. 639 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,970 And our defense tactics have to change, 640 00:33:56,170 --> 00:33:58,340 because Kathy Schroeder flipped on you. 641 00:34:00,050 --> 00:34:02,100 Before, you were all a united front, 642 00:34:02,300 --> 00:34:05,020 whatever the prosecutor said happened at Mount Carmel, 643 00:34:05,220 --> 00:34:07,020 was speculation. 644 00:34:07,220 --> 00:34:10,320 Now, one of your own is going to corroborate their claims. 645 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,900 Kathy is gonna tell the jury that she passed out guns 646 00:34:13,100 --> 00:34:15,140 to each and every one of you during the siege. 647 00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:17,200 I wasn't even there. 648 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,530 Well, then she's gonna say you bought the guns, 649 00:34:19,740 --> 00:34:21,676 make you into an arms dealer with a death wish. 650 00:34:21,700 --> 00:34:25,830 She's gonna turn the rest of you into an army out for blood. 651 00:34:26,030 --> 00:34:30,130 So if-if we can't say you never held a gun, 652 00:34:30,330 --> 00:34:32,090 we have to make the jury believe 653 00:34:32,290 --> 00:34:34,760 that you had no choice but to pick one up. 654 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,010 You had no choice but to protect yourselves, 655 00:34:38,210 --> 00:34:41,260 because David Koresh conditioned you 656 00:34:41,470 --> 00:34:43,180 to do whatever he said, 657 00:34:43,380 --> 00:34:45,980 and the government charged in trying to kill your children. 658 00:34:46,140 --> 00:34:48,520 But we didn't just do whatever he told us to do. 659 00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:50,400 - We-we made choices. - Yeah, look, 660 00:34:50,470 --> 00:34:52,610 you can be as pissed as you want at me in here, 661 00:34:52,810 --> 00:34:54,320 but when we're in that courtroom, 662 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,490 you need to sit there, and you need to look sorry. 663 00:34:58,690 --> 00:35:00,580 You need to stop shaking your head 664 00:35:00,780 --> 00:35:03,450 and-and stop glowering at the prosecutors. 665 00:35:03,650 --> 00:35:07,170 And you, you need to wear a dress. 666 00:35:07,370 --> 00:35:09,630 Yeah, something that makes you look softer 667 00:35:09,830 --> 00:35:11,250 and more vulnerable. 668 00:35:11,450 --> 00:35:12,670 I don't wear dresses. 669 00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:14,390 Well, then we'll get you one. 670 00:35:14,540 --> 00:35:16,220 But you need to start doing your part. 671 00:35:16,420 --> 00:35:19,090 You need to start acting like the victim. 672 00:35:21,340 --> 00:35:23,800 You need to be honest about who you are. 673 00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:26,850 Proverbs speaks to this, 674 00:35:27,050 --> 00:35:28,770 calling for insight, 675 00:35:28,970 --> 00:35:32,440 not being afraid to ask for help, 676 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:34,980 so that we can better understand ourselves. 677 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,700 Vernon, what are you struggling with? 678 00:35:40,900 --> 00:35:42,240 How can we help you? 679 00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:49,080 I struggle with my own desires, 680 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,580 which I feel so strong sometimes. 681 00:35:52,670 --> 00:35:54,420 What kind of desires? 682 00:35:56,130 --> 00:35:57,670 Pleasure of the flesh. 683 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,850 Sometimes it's so strong, 684 00:36:02,050 --> 00:36:04,470 I have to relieve that pressure several times a day. 685 00:36:04,670 --> 00:36:05,670 Oh! 686 00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,350 It's okay. It's okay. 687 00:36:08,550 --> 00:36:10,560 You should feel comfortable to share. 688 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,270 You shouldn't feel embarrassed. 689 00:36:12,470 --> 00:36:14,350 I never said I was embarrassed. 690 00:36:17,650 --> 00:36:19,820 Everyone has their own struggles. 691 00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:23,240 No temptation has overtaken you 692 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,990 that is not common to man. 693 00:36:26,190 --> 00:36:27,870 God is faithful. 694 00:36:28,070 --> 00:36:30,546 He will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but... 695 00:36:30,570 --> 00:36:31,830 But with that temptation, 696 00:36:32,030 --> 00:36:33,870 He will also provide the way of escape. 697 00:36:34,790 --> 00:36:37,260 Corinthians 10:13. 698 00:36:37,460 --> 00:36:39,930 But when that temptation comes over me, 699 00:36:40,130 --> 00:36:43,430 I wonder if she's ever known loving hands on her body, 700 00:36:43,630 --> 00:36:46,140 if she's ever felt true pleasure 701 00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:50,140 and I'm overcome... 702 00:36:50,340 --> 00:36:54,100 with desire until I feel like I might go mad. 703 00:36:58,060 --> 00:36:59,780 You were, uh... 704 00:36:59,980 --> 00:37:01,780 You were pretty honest at Bible study. 705 00:37:01,940 --> 00:37:04,030 I promised myself that when I came here, 706 00:37:04,230 --> 00:37:06,070 I wouldn't hold back any bit of myself... 707 00:37:07,490 --> 00:37:09,080 even those little ugly parts 708 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:11,561 that I'd rather sometimes just sweep under the rug. 709 00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:16,790 I... I felt the same way when I came here. 710 00:37:18,250 --> 00:37:20,250 Like I wanted to give all of myself. 711 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,420 Kindred spirits, I guess. 712 00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:30,500 - Looks good over here. - Oh, do you need me? 713 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,440 Not just yet. 714 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,600 Actually, uh, I just came over to talk to Vernon. 715 00:37:37,940 --> 00:37:40,490 Uh, Vernon, 716 00:37:40,690 --> 00:37:44,200 I'm getting ready to go on my yearly trip to Israel. 717 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,870 And I think you should join me... 718 00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:48,070 to study. 719 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:58,600 Nothing would give me more pleasure 720 00:37:58,660 --> 00:38:00,880 than learning right from your hands. 721 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,050 Good. 722 00:38:04,460 --> 00:38:05,970 That's settled then. 723 00:38:06,170 --> 00:38:08,050 Dramatic music plays 724 00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:34,920 Hi. Uh, excuse me. Are you Angie? 725 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:36,210 Jacob sent me. 726 00:38:36,410 --> 00:38:37,540 - Oh, yes. - Yeah. 727 00:38:37,740 --> 00:38:38,740 - Gary? - Right. 728 00:38:38,830 --> 00:38:39,830 - Okay. Hi. - Yeah. 729 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:42,800 So you drew the short straw, huh? 730 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,050 Yeah. Our informant's name is Carol Howe. 731 00:38:45,250 --> 00:38:48,050 And, um, we didn't know how seriously to take her 732 00:38:48,250 --> 00:38:51,600 because she's not the most reliable-seeming informant. 733 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,680 Uh-hmm. 734 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,560 How'd she wind up here in the hospital? 735 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,900 Did they find out she was informing and hurt her? 736 00:38:58,100 --> 00:38:59,560 Actually, kind of the opposite. 737 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,196 No, Wild Bill actually beat her up pretty bad 738 00:39:01,220 --> 00:39:02,580 - before the robbery... - Uh-hmm. 739 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,520 And she got pissed, so she tipped us off 740 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,950 - as a way to get revenge. - Mmm. 741 00:39:07,150 --> 00:39:09,240 She's not a big fan of authority, 742 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,740 to say the least, and, uh, she's a bit erratic. 743 00:39:12,940 --> 00:39:14,250 How so? 744 00:39:14,450 --> 00:39:17,370 God damn it! Come on! 745 00:39:18,910 --> 00:39:21,170 TV signal's shit in here, Angie. 746 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,170 Hey there, Carol. I'm Gary. 747 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,510 How's Wild Bill? 748 00:39:29,710 --> 00:39:31,260 Did he ask about me? 749 00:39:31,460 --> 00:39:33,100 He lawyered up pretty quickly, 750 00:39:33,170 --> 00:39:35,560 so I honestly don't know what he's asking about. 751 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,560 - Is he doing okay? - Yeah, 752 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,560 for someone who's gonna spend ten to twenty years in prison. 753 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,940 I didn't mean to get him locked up that long. 754 00:39:43,140 --> 00:39:45,536 But that asshole shouldn't have laid his hands on me like that. 755 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,230 You don't mess with a lady's face! 756 00:39:48,190 --> 00:39:49,240 That's right. 757 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:50,240 That's right. 758 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:51,440 Uh-hmm. 759 00:39:53,030 --> 00:39:55,410 So Wild Bill had made some allusions 760 00:39:55,610 --> 00:39:58,250 to some kind of payback against the government. 761 00:39:58,450 --> 00:40:01,170 Did he ever speak to you about anything like that? 762 00:40:01,370 --> 00:40:03,500 Gary? 763 00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:05,590 I ain't some kind of narc. 764 00:40:05,790 --> 00:40:08,340 I'm just a person who's sick of her boyfriend's shit. 765 00:40:08,540 --> 00:40:09,800 Yeah, fair enough. 766 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,970 But, uh, I'd say there's a difference 767 00:40:12,170 --> 00:40:14,140 between being a narc and saving the lives 768 00:40:14,340 --> 00:40:16,140 of innocent people. 769 00:40:18,890 --> 00:40:20,600 Ain't nobody innocent. 770 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:23,600 Really? 771 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:29,700 Well, what about Elohim City? Did you hear anyone there... 772 00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:33,280 speak about some sort of planned payback? 773 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,830 I don't know about Elohim City. 774 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:52,390 Come on, Carol, this is important. 775 00:40:52,590 --> 00:40:54,470 I'm trying to keep people from getting hurt. 776 00:41:01,850 --> 00:41:02,850 Dammit. 777 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:05,960 I don't... the people you're asking 778 00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:07,440 about at Elohim City, 779 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,480 they didn't really talk to me much, okay? 780 00:41:11,150 --> 00:41:13,431 And I never heard anything specific about anything, 781 00:41:13,610 --> 00:41:15,490 but I will tell you... 782 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,006 they talk a lot about how the government 783 00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:20,370 has turned on them. 784 00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:26,920 They talk about a holy war that's coming. 785 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,760 And they're gonna be on the frontlines. 786 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,430 But that's nothing on its own. 787 00:41:32,630 --> 00:41:35,220 You know, I know plenty of people who talk like that. 788 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,600 But the thing about Elohim City is, 789 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,560 it's full of people who tend to mean what they say. 790 00:41:45,730 --> 00:41:47,730 What does that mean exactly? 791 00:41:50,770 --> 00:41:52,570 It means if payback is coming, 792 00:41:52,770 --> 00:41:54,810 then I would guess it's gonna come from there. 793 00:42:00,570 --> 00:42:01,660 Yeah. 794 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,570 Nowhere to run to, uh, uh 795 00:42:31,770 --> 00:42:36,740 Nowhere to hide 58967

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