All language subtitles for The comedies of Preston Sturges w Anthony Esolen Criteria The Catholic Film Podcast

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this is criteria

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[Applause]

hello everyone welcome back to criteria

i'm thomas beerus i'm here with my

co-host james mayevsky hello james hey

thomas

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um we're continuing uh a topic that we

began a few episodes ago uh when we

discussed the film the awful truth uh

with our our friend nathan douglas we

introduced this idea this this genre of

screwball comedy and we'll be continuing

that

that genre discussion today uh but i

wanted to just quickly refresh for the

audience who doesn't remember what what

that genre is wikipedia actually has a

pretty uh good and concise uh

description so i'll go ahead and read

that just to quickly remind people

it's a sub-genre of the romantic comedy

genre that became popular during the

great depression beginning in the early

1930s and thriving until the early 1940s

that satirizes the traditional love

story

i found this part interesting it has

secondary characteristics similar to

film noir distinguished by a female who

dominates the relationship with the male

central character whose masculinity is

challenged the two engage in a humorous

battle of the sexes which was a new

theme for hollywood and audiences at the

time

so today we'll be sort of continuing

this topic uh with a great director of

this of this period of the

of well he really started directing in

the 40s but he was a great writer uh in

the 30s as well

preston sturgis preston sergius

as i mentioned was a screenwriter who

eventually became one of the earliest

hollywood screenwriters to sort of

um turn his screenwriting

uh reputation into

a gig directing and writing his own

movies and so he was one of the first to

do that in hollywood um he had also been

one of the first uh

to

be a sole writer of a script outside the

studio system and then selling them to

the studio in a complete form which is

the sort of the spec script model which

became common practice in hollywood and

that that happened with his film the

power and the glory um which was based

on the novel by the catholic novelist

graham greene and supposedly this film

also was a big influence on uh orson

welles citizen kane um so

he was pretty important even before me

he became a director um

but uh in

from

1940 to 1945 he wrote and directed eight

films i would say seven of which are

considered to be classics um and uh

most of them are most or all of them are

comedies um i wouldn't say every film

that he that he wrote and directed was a

screwball comedy but and quite a number

of them are and today we'll be

discussing two of those films um one of

which is from 1941 sullivan's travels

and the other is from 1944 the miracle

of morgan's creek

sullivan's travels i'm not sure is

necessarily a screwball comedy it has

some of those elements miracle of

morgan's creek most definitely is a

screwball comedy um and so we're very

very happy today to have a guest uh here

with us

who has been on the podcast before when

we discussed he actually was the first

guest we had on this show now that i

think of it um he he came on to discuss

john ford's classic western stage coach

he's a well-known catholic cultural

critic a poet and a translator best

known for his translation of dante's

divine comedy

tony eslin welcome back to the show tony

hi thomas great to be here

well uh this is yet another installment

in the

uh

things i have seen anthony write on

write about on facebook or in articles

that i think would be great to discuss

at length on a podcast we did that with

stagecoach we did that with uh sir wayne

and the green knight over on the

catholic culture podcast and i've seen

you mention sullivan's travels

um in in at least two or three articles

you've written i think um so so what is

it about this film that has stuck with

you

the odd thing about sullivan's travels

is that

uh sturgis

is

uh both satirizing uh the the socially

conscious

movies especially of frank capra in fact

capra is mentioned a couple of times in

the movie at the same time as he's uh

actually giving honor

um

uh to to those people who are using film

to um

to

explore

some of the

darker sides of man's life on this earth

especially among the poor

um because the premise of the movie

is uh

is it you know you would think ha ha my

gosh i mean this is a this is a movie

about making movies and it's so early uh

yeah i thought we only did that nowadays

that we're smart um but uh the the the

center

the central figure in the in the movie

is sullivan uh uh

sully as he's called by his handlers and

bosses

you see the symbolism of it capital

labor destroy each other it teaches a

lesson a moral lesson that has social

significance he wants to see that kind

of stuff it gives me the creeps tell

them how long it played in the music

hall it was held over a fifth week who

goes to the music hall communist

communists this picture's an answer to

communism it shows we're awake and not

dunking our heads in the sand like a

bunch of ostriches i want this picture

to be a commentary on modern conditions

stark realism the problems that confront

the average man but with a little sex a

little but i don't want to stress it i

want this picture to be a document i

want to hold a mirror up to life i want

this to be a picture of dignity a true

canvas of the suffering of humanity but

with a little section with a little sex

in it how about a nice musical how can

you talk about musicals at a time like

this with a world committing suicide

with corpses piling up in the street

with grim death gargling at you from

every corner with people slaughtered

like sheep maybe they'd like to forget

that then why do they hold this one over

for a fifth week at the music hall for

the ushers it died in pittsburgh like a

dog what do they know in pits they know

what they like if they know what they're

like they wouldn't live in pittsburgh

that's no argument if you pander to the

public you'd still be in the horsey you

think we're not look at hop along camp

you'll look at them we'd still be making

keystone chases bathing beauties custard

pie the fortune fortune of course i'm

just a minor employee here mr lebron

he's starting that one again i wanted to

make you something outstanding something

you could be proud of something that

would realize the potentialities of film

as the sociological and artistic medium

that it is with a little sex in it

something like something like capra i

know what's the matter with capra look

you want to make her brother out there

yes now wait a minute then go ahead and

make it what you're getting i can't

afford to argue with you that's a fine

way to start a man out on a million

dollar production you want it you've got

it i can take it in the chin i've taken

it before not from me you have it not

from you sully that's true not with

pictures like so long sauron hey and the

hail off ants in your plants from 1939

but they weren't about traps lockouts

sweatshops people eating garbage and

alleys and living in piano boxes and ash

cans and floyd they're about nice clean

young people fell in love with laughter

and music and legs now take that scene

in hey hey you don't realize conditions

have changed there isn't any work there

isn't any food these are troubleless

times what do you know about trouble

what do i know about trouble yes what do

you know about trouble what do you mean

what do i know about trouble guess what

i'm saying you want to make a picture

about garbage cans what do you know

about garbage cans when you eat your

last meal out of one what's that got to

do with it he's asking you you want to

make an epic about misery you want to

show hungry people sleeping in doorways

the newspapers around them you want to

grind ten thousand feet of hard luck and

all i'm asking you is what do you know

about heart yes what do you mean what do

i know about hard luck don't you think

i've what you have not i saw a newspaper

until i was 20 then i worked in a shoe

store and put myself through law school

at night where were you at 20. well i

was in college when i was 13 i supported

three sisters and two brothers and a

widowed mother where were you at 13. i

was in boarding school i'm sorry well

you don't have to be ashamed of it sully

that's the reason your picture's been so

light so cheerful so inspiring they

don't stink with messages that's why i

paid you 500 a week when you were 24 750

when you were 25 000 when you were 26

when i was 26 i was getting 18. 2 000

when you were 27 i was getting 25 then i

just opened my shooting again 3 000

after thanks for yesterday 4 000 after

asking you i suppose you're trying to

tell me i don't know what trouble is yes

in a nice way solid you're absolutely

right i haven't any idea what it is

people always like what they don't know

anything about

certainly had a lot of nerve wanting to

make a picture about human suffering

you're a gentleman to admit it sully but

then you are anyway

how about making ants in your plants of

1941 you can have bob hope mary martin

maybe being crossbow you have a dancers

maybe jack benny in rochester big name

band what

oh no i want to make oh brother her art

though and i'll tell you what i'm going

to do first

i'm going down at the wardrobe and get

some old clothes some old shoes hmm and

i'm going to start out with 10 cents in

my pocket i don't know where i'm going

but i'm not coming back till i know what

trouble is what don't worry you can take

me off salary who's talking about taking

your salary so long and thanks for that

wait a minute wait a minute don't be so

impulsive how soon you'll be back i

don't know maybe a week maybe a month

maybe a year don't worry about me and

thanks dracula you gave me a great idea

i'll give you

now look what you've done yeah what i've

done with your lies about selling

newspaper i sold as many newspapers as

you supported a family at 13. i opened a

shooting gallery didn't i with money you

borrowed from your uncle we better

insure him for a million he's worth more

the bone head yes but what a genius

give me a copy that old brother where

art thou i guess i'll have to read it

now

make that two copy why should i suffer

alone

sullivan is plagued brilliantly

by the all-american good guy actor joel

mcrae

um

you know fresh-faced clean-cut

wholesome

tall

handsome

soft-spoken good-looking smart you know

basically middle america the best right

um

and he's not known any suffering so he's

going to go out and find out how the

other half lives

um

and

boy

uh

do we get uh

we get a movie in which i defy anybody

to tell me that they know

what's going to happen

from from moment to moment in this movie

and that's true of a lot of uh preston

sturgis's films a lot of them have just

crazy endings and the miracle of morgan

creek's morgan streak may be the

craziest of them all in in some ways or

it just sort of keeps it keeps

escalating uh joel mccrae's character

is is trying to base this this social

commentary film on oh brother where art

thou

that's also a movie in real life uh

by the coen brothers which you may or

may not

riffing off of sturgis yeah yeah exactly

and so they've actually cited him as a

major influence on their comedies and

and it's interesting he has been he has

been cited by a lot of contemporary

filmmakers uh as an influence everyone

from aaron sorkin to to james james gone

to john lasseter at pixar have cited

sturgis as influences on their uh on

their writing um

and uh

it is interesting how this film is kind

of paradoxically

both sort of a message film and making

fun of the the pretension behind message

films at the same time there's a few uh

kind of funny lines uh i think uh

something about a stink something stinks

with messages i think is one of the

lines one of the character uses about

these kinds of films um uh veronica lake

who is mccrae's cool co-star in this um

this picture uh says there's nothing

like a deep dish movie to drive you out

in the open which is a great line

uh and a poor colleague she was um

she was four foot eleven

uh and uh sturgis sturgis sets this up

just deliberately because mcrae was a

very tall man

um so uh

veronica lake plays a down and out

actress who is actually on her way

back home okay to leave hollywood for

good when she runs into joel mcrae in

his disguise as a bum

uh

temporarily getting back to hollywood to

to to sort of restart his attempt to go

out among the people and find out how

they live um she buys him breakfast and

um uh you know she's

she's seen the simi side of hollywood

and she's

uh

she's uh uh

sort of disillusioned by it

and

um

she's not at all interested in the kind

of movie that

sullivan wants to make she actually

liked those

light-hearted airy fluffy things yeah

what are the some of the things that you

wrote

in the haystack

hey hey in the hay snack

1939 nothing like that

uh it's it's a movie that is actually

very very hard to describe because the

guys come

uh

fast um there's a lot of physical

slapstick but there's a lot of real

really profoundly moving and not

ironical not flippant because starches

is not flippant

right

i mean sturgis

this movie and others of his movies

really depend upon a very real powerful

attraction between men and women um

it's

it's

the battle of the sexes because it's

also this really powerful attraction of

the sexes

right um

and uh

i mean you gotta have both a touch of

flippancy or snideness would spoil

um the real comic heart of this movie uh

and joel mccrae never in his life did

anything that was merely snyder or

uh you know

flippant reductive that's that kind of

thing

um

my gosh though uh the the scenes see but

radical lake to tell your viewers right

we don't want to give away too much the

plot here but uh

veronica lake decides to go out

with sullivan uh somebody's got to take

care of him after all because the big

lug uh he's never really lived um sort

of uh on the other side of the tracks uh

somebody's ought to get

keep him from getting into all kinds of

trouble

um

and they're

they do actually see

much

of what is uh

well uh human

uh human suffering but also the beauty

of human beings even in their suffering

yeah i think uh one of my favorite

uh segments of the movie as far as

that's concerned is that well the the

main it's sort of right in the middle of

the movie is this this montage we get

uh with music of them just

spending some time with

with hobos you know and going to the

revival meetings and sleeping in a big

clump of people on the floor and and uh

being on the train and uh dumpster

diving for food and all this stuff and

of course

yeah exactly sleeping sleeping on the

floor of the floor and there's no room

on the floor

in the uh charity

place um there's an old man next to them

snoring loudly without any teeth

uh

and it looks grotesque

uh but it's also deeply profoundly human

yeah

yeah well and still

i i want so much to talk about

i don't want to spoil a movie uh it has

the i think it has the greatest scene

set in a church

in any in any hollywood movie that i

know of and there have been many

hollywood movies with powerful scenes

set in churches for the the very final

scene of going my way for instance um

where they uh get the old priest

together with his mother from ireland

and the actor playing the old priest is

barry fitzgerald and liam mccarry the

director didn't tell him

surprised them that they were actually

going to get

his

mother in her 80s from ireland to bring

her to the united states and put her on

the set so that when the actor actually

looks at her it's his mother

and

the look is priceless right i mean there

are powerful

powerful church scenes in hollywood or

there used to be but

that's seen in the black church

in the baptist church where they're

going to show an entertainment a movie

that near the end of sullivan's travels

is like nothing else

in all of hollywood history

well we do do spoilers on this podcast

so uh maybe i'll just tell people maybe

i'll just tell people you know

it's worth seeing these movies uh before

listening to our full discussion because

they they are quite surprising but in

order to go as deep as we want into them

we do we do necessarily have to

sort of talk about the whole thing so i

wouldn't i wouldn't worry too much about

that and we will get into that that plot

development later which leads them to

that wonderful church scene i wanted to

give james a chance uh james this was

your introduction to this director um so

what was your your overall first

impression yeah you know i didn't i

didn't really know what i was getting

into um i guess the only context that i

had was uh the awful truth so i knew

that i was gonna be watching something

that was uh at least screwball adjacent

and uh at the beginning of sullivan's

travels um

there are some some screw bally elements

uh that are very prominent also of

morgan's creek with like the really

quick overlapping dialogue and um

uh

snappy yeah yeah and some of some of

these uh you know falls onto the floor

into the pool or you know uh you gotta

wonder like

i i mean maybe i'm cynical and i just

don't laugh when someone falls into a

pool but like in in in this film in

sullivan's travels there's like an

extended scene where we just watch one

person after another falling into the

pool and like was there ever a time when

people were just like

you know cracking up at this i don't

know maybe um

but uh especially because two of the

people who fall in the pool of butler

yeah right right um

or that butler who has given some of the

a couple of sentences there are

best lines in the movie yeah right he

advised very much against

going to experience poverty uh it is a

thing to be shunned well i want to do it

for the sake of the poor i doubt

i doubt sir

uh that i doubt mr sullivan the poor

would appreciate it uh i think that they

do not like to have their privacy

invaded upon um

it's it's

uh

it's it's politically incorrect but

powerfully considered but you know it's

fun to see

because there's a touch of the snob

about the butler too

and when he falls into the pool it's uh

yeah

well i guess a butler

a butler with an english accent and a

pool

yeah good old-fashioned fun

um

but yeah you know i i guess one of the

things that struck me so much was

just how

familiar this world seems to me um

you know

i guess you know in the grand scheme of

things this really isn't all that long

ago

but

frankly

you know it's like the more things

change the more things stay the same um

uh

veronica lake's character her whole uh

spiel about you know what it's like

being an actress an up-and-coming

actress in hollywood

sounds like something you know you might

have heard

a year or two ago during like the the

metoo confessional stuff and

um

you know uh yeah the the the stuff with

um

uh

the uh the like sort of hollywood

snobbery about

uh sort of you know

making films for the working class like

the the effect that these films are

going to have um

you know smacks of the kind of hubris

that you hear year after year in the

academy awards you know and and this

sort of like and

is

undercutting it right yeah right totally

totally and and and i just i guess i was

struck by wow you know

so so much of what preston sturgis is

commenting upon here and critiquing

is

you know

it shows knows like hollywood shows no

signs of having uh reflected on any of

this um in the years since then you know

agree with you but i would say i would

say more that

a hollywood cannot now do

a movie like sullivan yeah because what

sullivan's travels

is a heart

and hollywood has lost most of its heart

especially i don't know who you would

get

um

for

uh sully uh who are you gonna get uh

that's you know you know all-american

boy like uh joel mcrae

um

yeah i think that that was that was the

most like sort of uh prominent feature

of this film that stuck out to me was

that there's just no way this movie is

possible today

and i don't know yeah that that

hollywood is

capable of this level of sort of

self-critique

yeah and you know another thing that

would spoil this movie although there's

really powerful attraction between joel

mcrae and veronica lake

uh and by the way she she loved doing

this movie with him right

the if if there's

if there's a suggestion

that she and he are sleeping together

okay

um that ruins the movie right

right

that that spoils it right there movie's

gone movie's dead

okay

um

in

the midst of all this crackling uh

sexuality um there's gotta be this

uh gold threat of real innocence

and

if that's missing it's gone it's good

yeah

you know uh there's

it's it's

i said that the the the the english

butler was a bit of a snob the funny

thing is that mccrae's character

itself himself is it's just a touch of

snub so he's arguing there at the

beginning of the movie with his um

uh

his

studio executives right um

and he's talking about the kind of movie

that uh that he wants to make a socially

relevant movie and uh one of them says

it bombed in this dialogue it's very

fast it it bombed in pittsburgh

uh and mccrae

sullivan says well

what do they know in pittsburgh uh the

other fellows is they know what they

like if they knew what they liked they

wouldn't be looking at that

it blurts that out

and it

you know it shows well you know

there's a touch of the snob in this prep

school kid

right

uh

it's uh uh but you know it's just a

touch

it's not

the real heart of his character and he

learns

in the movie he really does learn just

despite himself okay

um yeah there's sort of like three

progressive attempts that he makes to

enter into the life of the poor there's

the first attempt where he's got the van

the land yacht with all of his hollywood

retinue following behind him at their

insistence to keep him safe and

comfortable right uh he tries to escape

them he manages to do do it for a little

bit ends up catching a ride with a

trucker and and gets straight back to

hollywood

he gets a ride with a child

oh yeah well the kid yeah yeah the whip

well that's the first ride that's the

first ride he gets and then there's a

ride that takes him back to hollywood

after that what is a whippet tanker by

the way

i think it was an old uh like world war

one era uh type tag tank um

uh i didn't look very closely but it was

it was one of these sort of uh

uh

you know highly mobile with the little

turret in the center

kind of tanks early early tank design

yeah

and then comes his second

attempt

and

there he really

that that part of that is that wonderful

montage which lasts what five minutes

more uh

of scenes without any

spoken words and beautiful music

that's a really good cue that that scene

has and and one really beautiful moment

where their backs are to us

and they're standing they're looking out

towards the the sunset

um

and

you know it's it's a mutt and jeff

sort of seen that it's

tall small jeff big tall um and he puts

his arm around her

they put their arms around each other we

see this from behind she's dressed of

course as a boy

um

uh in order to be hanging around with

him there uh and it's um

that's really moving but then the third

time it's totally by accident isn't it

yeah and it's his own and it's

understands his own naivete that gets

him gets him into that situation and

that he's sort of

he's finished his homeless tour he's now

going back for one last visit to give

everybody five dollar bills and there's

it's a nice it's a nice sentiment but

there is something a little bit naive

about about it i guess and so and a

little bit patronizing yeah

and

um

he ends up

uh now

really

going to the bottom right okay

unwittingly

um and everybody thinks everybody thinks

he's dead

um

and he actually finds himself in uh

in the deep south

in a prison

for hard labor

like a chain gang yeah

and

the only way he can get himself out of

there but at the end is he gets the idea

he accuses himself because solomon

sullivan has been apparently murdered uh

he

he accuses himself of his own murder so

they're finally somebody will discover

him down there and all the truth will

come out

but while they're uh while they're down

there okay

um and and uh

there's a a trustee who actually helps

him who gives a little water when he's

in the cooler um

or in the hot house

you know for punishment

they're going to go

uh

see

a movie

right

they're going to go to the picture show

and

uh

sullivan doesn't really want to go but

the trustee persuades will come on yeah

we're all going to go

um

and that then we when we have no idea

what's going to happen right we have no

it would be a picture show

what's that going to be well it turns

out

that there's a very poor black church

in the neighborhood

and we go to the inside there

and um

the black preacher is just getting done

with his preaching

and he says

in the deep rich

deep baritone voice he says that we're

going to have

some guests

with us tonight

um

because we're going to have an

entertainment but we're going to have

some guests

and now i don't want any of you

to make our guests

feel hot at home

[Music]

or uncomfortable

by acting high-toned

[Music]

um

putting on airs

because we all children of god

and he said

uh that's pretty good right he said and

the first shall be last

right uh

little children in the sight of god and

they begin to sing yeah go down while

men

are in chains

and he takes the lead he's the base go

down moses

yeah

way down to israel and

tell old pharaoh let my people go

and these dispirited

uh scruffy

men

guilty of all kinds of crimes

in chains including sullivan

not

and

the sheet is let down from the from the

front of the church

um this is like movies move motion

picture at the very lowest level

um a

black lady a very nice black lady is

playing the musical accompaniment on the

organ

on a pump organ

read organ okay

um that you have to work with your feet

while they show

uh not ants in your plants not hey hey

in the hay loft not oh brother where are

though they show a black and white

silent

because she got to play the music

disney cartoon and this is like very

primitive disney too it's not it's not

you know i i'm hoping for some some bugs

bunny or something you know this is like

the most basic of slapstick slapstick

cartoon thing that's right

totally basic right

and

these dispirited disheartened men

uh

with all the crimes heaped on their

heads

they'll start to laugh

the preacher even laughs

he belts out a laugh and

everybody's starting to laugh and

sullivan is there looking solomon he's

this sophisticated man he's his

hollywood director

and he looks around

and he looks at the screen

and he starts to laugh

and he laughs full hearted laughs and

there's it's again it's like in this

movie they're about

they're about a dozen moments

that you never see

yeah but you can watch movies now for 30

years and you'll never see a movement

you'll never see a moment like that

[Music]

yeah yeah when he comes back he says no

i'm not they they now i'll say wow

we've got such publicity now because he

manages to get out of this

hard labor prison uh

now you gotta

publicity now you go forth and make oh

brother wear out though

he said well no i'm not gonna make it

maybe i will someday not yet but i'm not

going to make it he says you know

uh

some people they've been not such a bad

thing to make people laugh

in this it's in this cockeyed caravan

it's

for some people it's almost the only

thing they have

yeah yeah yeah um and then that's my

last one

yeah it's it's a great ending and i i

also appreciate that church scene

because there's a couple other scenes

with the black character who's in the

hollywood retinue which maybe smack a

little bit of you know the sort of

disrespectful treatment shown to black

people in hollywood and then i feel like

this this church scene kind of redeems

it because it's it's fully human and

they're

really it's totally deliberate right

i mean you really have to see this scene

as against

the black cook scene in the lanyard

right played by the actor snowflake

that's the name given on the credits

snowflake right um

a lot of slapstick there

but

the black church

yeah

that's amazing

yeah it's incredible because there's

just at the beginning of the movie

there's no way that you can

can

expect to to end up in the deep south

with a chain gang watching a disney

cartoon in this baptist church you know

and and and and that was that was the

other thing that you know as soon as i

started watching this movie and you know

maybe like by the time i was 20 minutes

into this i thought

wow i really have no idea where this is

gonna go

um

two

three quarters of the way into the movie

yeah the whole last half hour of this

movie which is an hour and a half long

it goes to a totally different place

it's like it feels like it should be

wrapping up and then there's like a

whole other

section of the plot

um

yeah it's it's

he does several of his movies yeah well

i think he

yeah miracle morgan's creek is that way

the lady eve is that way well that's the

cool thing about these preston sturgis

comments i've watched what are

considered to be like his eight classic

comedies

i think seven of them were made between

40 and 44 and then the last one

unfaithfully yours is 1948 and they're

all you they're all worth watching

because each of them is kind of unique i

mean uh they don't

seem to follow a formula to the same

degree that

plenty of other you know well beloved

classic comedies or westerns or noirs or

whatever of whatever genre it is of the

time follow um and there's often

something very unpredictable about them

it's sort of a unique concept um for

free

in both these movies it's interesting

that you mentioned uh thomas you've

mentioned film noir twice now um and

they really do both of these movies here

uh at times skirt very close

to tragedy

um

uh i mean especially sullivan's travels

right um

uh

there's really evil

in

sullivan's travels there's evil also in

miracle morgan's creek that it's

it's played down but uh that too

uh skirts very close to

uh

yeah well there's uh that would be

utterly yeah in the in the background of

both of these films there is this like

real darkness that's lurking and

sometimes it's kind of amazing

sometimes it gets a little uncomfortable

i felt this a little bit more

more uh prominently with miracle at

morgan's creek where where sometimes i

would just sort of think wow this is

this is heavy

um and then and then you know someone

would crack a joke um but but it's the

same with with sullivan's travels that

you know uh you

preston sturgis is able to navigate

quite seamlessly between

these moments of real lightness and then

moments where where

just not not too too heavily but just

sort of with the lightest uh touch you

know dips into

some pretty

heavy material and

i i i i appreciate that a lot because i

think that

a hackier

comedian

might

relish too much

that um

the sort of like uh

like it's like it's like being in in in

a hot tub and jumping into the pool like

when you when you play with those

contrasts

the the result can be really striking

but then you wonder like

is this is this is this really an earned

um

is this striking because it's really

actually nuanced and thoughtful or is

this striking simply because it's

jarring and and uh uh

discomforting you know but with it it

can come at the expense of the film's

humanity i think

yeah yeah and that doesn't really happen

here i don't think

uh see it's so easy to overlook

um the acting ability of joel mcrae

because

um

he doesn't seem to be acting

you know

uh he just seems to

be that kind of that's true

right

well i love him i i think he's a great

actor he's underrepresented i like him a

lot too he's very straight down the

middle he doesn't strike you as as much

of a personality as say cary grant or

some other actors at the time but he is

very he's very good in everything that

i've seen him in

yeah he doesn't

uh

he doesn't say hey look at me i'm acting

aren't i brilliant

um

it's uh

you know

joe mccrae being joel mcrae

uh not even john wayne being john wayne

because it's kind of like a brand name

you know uh it's just joel mcrae being a

tall good-looking man

of a kind of normal sensibility

he's brilliant in

alfred hitchcock's um foreign

correspondent

absolutely perfectly cast in in that

movie

um that's no school comedy uh

um yeah uh it and in the in the miracle

morgan's creek the real evil behind it

that is this service man

knowing

this is not shown to us

we come to know it

piecing things together

after the fact

along with the character betty hutton

because she's she was

knocked uh

semi-conscious by a blow to the head an

accident uh chandelier okay in the dance

hall was then taken to

uh a justice of the peace somehow

somewhere

uh by a serviceman on his way out

who never met her before

just so that he could bed down with her

yeah

uh knowing right knowing that she didn't

know what's going on right right

and she wakes up the next morning and

memories start coming back to her really

vaguely uh

and sure enough very soon after this we

find out she's enjoying

um

and there she has to call upon

uh

that the faithful boy who who's uh who's

been rejected for the army because he

he stutters and as the jitters

eddie bracken who loves her is totally

in love with her

to try to get her out of this mess that

she's gotten herself into um if i could

before we totally transition over to

miracle of morgan's creek just to make a

couple of uh more observations about

sullivan's travels um the first is that

and this is something we touched on with

john ford's stagecoach and it's

something that you find more often in

films it's this is one of the things

that we talk about when we say this film

wouldn't be made today is that there's a

sort of graciousness extended to

everybody in a certain

sort of understanding and compassion

especially in filmmakers like capra and

ford and you see that this

in particular in the comments made about

the uh

the jail warden um by the

the i wish i could remember the

character the character who sort of

watches out for sully when he's in

prison

yeah the trustee um uh

he he says he ain't so bad according to

his lights he has to deal with some

pretty tough hombres so otherwise we

would think of this as the stereotypical

um mean southern jail warden right he

beats people anybody who shows the

slightest bit of you know uh uppitiness

he he beats them he puts them in the hot

box um but we get this line from from uh

the trustee and it's uh

it's it's just one more touch of

humanity that's shown in the film

yeah

it's a movie that really grows on you

that there's uh

uh

i i don't think there's a single false

move in the whole film i don't um

the the though the um dialogue is often

as i said snappy right but that's

characteristic of screwball comedy back

and forth back forth

it's none of it is how to put it

slightly

uh

there's there's nothing glib and there's

nothing snarky

um

there's nothing well look show off i'm

showing off here i've got really snappy

dialogue

um

it's

uh it's too human for that

uh but it's not meant to be ponderously

human

it's it's it manages to be

to touch upon profound things

while being hilariously funny

i mean it's drop red funny yeah it

really is and it's it's super

entertaining right from the first moment

because you open with this this like

fight on this train

uh these two men just trying to kill

each other and then you know

we find out that it's sully pitching his

latest film and and it's a it's all a

metaphor for for how capital and labor

destroy one another and it's just like

already hilarious but it's also great

because then we get this later scene in

the tr well we've got multiple train

yard scenes but the most dramatic one is

when he's attacked in the train yard by

uh a homeless man

and uh

where the first scene is totally over

the top even before you know that it's

just it's not a film from it's not a

scene from this film per se it's a scene

from a film within the film uh it's

still kind of over the top and

ridiculous um but this other scene is

deadly serious and it's yeah and it's

totally grotesque when we see this guy

throwing his uh tripping and and running

through the train yard across this big

there's a great shot of him running

steals the man's shield

and there's this great shot of him

running across all these train tracks

this wide shot of all these different

train tracks that he's running across

and then at the very edge of the frame

he trips and falls and he's trying to

pick up his money and the train comes

and he doesn't know which track it's

going to switch down

and it's it's deadly serious there's

nothing slapstick about that you know um

it's a really dark that's a really dark

scene

i also wanted to touch on uh real quick

on veronica lake's performance this is

one of my favorite aspects of this film

because

there's something in her voice that is

very distinctive

about uh uh it almost feels ahead of its

time there's something very deadpan and

the fact that her voice is so low

that almost feels like a more a more

modern female performance you know um

and and so she's got this sort of

deadpan sarcastic low-key personality

but also a lot of heart as we see going

through the movie and and not not

someone who's going to be a loof she's a

loof at first a little bit of love from

him you know and uh suspicious of him

but she she quickly becomes

emotionally attached to him and so i i

like all these different aspects of the

performance but delivered with this

voice that i think is is very unique for

a female actress at the time

yeah and and that first scene with the

two of them together in the diner uh

where were first introduced to her it

totally plays out as if it could have

been a scene in a noir film you know and

and she has all the trappings of of a

femme fatale you know in she calls him

yeah yeah she's lauren

whether it was lauren bacall right right

she was a fashion icon at the time she

has this uh this peekaboo haircut that

was adopted by women all over the

country and i think i read that uh she

ultimately had to do a psa to tell

people to stop using that uh that

peekaboo haircut because women during

the war were getting their their hair

stuck in the machines at factories and

it was causing accidents

wow

people tell women to stop wearing their

hair in the front over one of their eyes

like that

but she was like a huge fashion icon by

the time

you know it's it's all to her credit i

think that she got along with her

co-star joel mcrae uh as well as they

did um i think they ended up living very

different kinds of lives mccrae was one

of the good guys in hollywood uh i'm in

a personal level he he uh was married

once

and forever right so i mean that

marriage went

i don't know 50 years

uh till their deaths uh till to which

everyone died first

um

the they had a son who

uh he and his wife who did a little bit

in the movies but you know

uh i i don't think mcrae thought of

himself as

he didn't take himself seriously

he he took his acting seriously he

didn't take himself seriously

staunch republican by the way

conservative republican for what that's

worth

back in the days when that meant

something

and when you could be that and not

getting sure sure

and then veronica lake you were saying

she lived a different a different went

in a different direction from him

well i think she had uh more i think she

was married and divorced a couple of

times that's all you know uh

uh i i you know i i i'm pretty young

she was pretty young at the time yeah

yeah yeah

um

and uh i i think she ended up out of

hollywood after about 15 or 20 years

because the life was

the life was ruining her by the time uh

she's if you if you ever see a clip of

her doing an interview uh around 1969

1970 she looks about 15 years older than

she really was because it's a

hard life

but uh yeah i don't know if you know

this but uh this the

the female star of miracle morgan's

creek betty hutton

you know anything about her life

uh no

oh okay well this now this is

fascinating all right uh by the way it's

it's a it's a catholic actor from canada

who who told me some years ago i had to

watch the movies of preston's purges

okay

uh any canadians out there

it's my friend louis delgrandy so if

you've ever watched the canadian show

seeing things

or uh the king of kensington

um that's my pal louis okay uh and he

put me onto these movies um anyway he

said that miracle morgan's creek was the

greatest comedy ever made and betty

hutton

uh song and dance girl

actress in screwball comedies

um

was

i mean

just

could not put up with the rottenness

of hollywood life anymore and how mean

people were it just got out of it she

she

she her life was starting to fall apart

she had to get out of it and she

converted ultimately she got out of

hollywood around the mid 50s by the end

of the 60s she had met a priest

and the priest brought her to jesus

christ

and she followed this priest

he was

or a friend of his was

pastor at a church in rhode island in

newport

and uh betty hutton after her hollywood

career

lived in newport rhode island and was

the housemaid was the housekeeper

um for a rectory wow

with catholic church and that's what she

did

um for the rest of her days

yeah she uh and she there's a there's a

uh robert osborne did a long interview

with her um

about an hour-long interview and and she

talks about that she she is very frank

about uh her her religious faith and how

she came to it

um and uh osborne allowed her to be very

frank about it there wasn't any

embarrassment there

um

i like to think that seeds were planted

even at the beginning

with this preston sturgis movie because

my friend louie

delgrandy said it's the greatest

pro-life movie ever made

hey

come here

so

want to have a little talk with you with

me papa no with your gentleman friend

there you go in the house yes sir

go on

sit down

what are you so nervous about

who's not nervous

there's getting to be quite a little

talk in the town oh where i come from we

don't skulk around the bushes you get me

yes when we got across the street we

don't crawl through the shore to get

there when we got something to say we

say it yes sir when is the happy event

i didn't hear ex exactly what you said

one of you and trudy getting hitched

oh

[Laughter]

what are you laughing about who me

i'm not laughing

just something i heard at the bank today

you haven't answered my question oh

there isn't any idiocy in your family is

that she won't have me oh she won't i

already asked her you didn't ask her

right you got to be more forceful in

these matters

dames like to be boss now you take me i

did my best you can do better you better

do better all you can do is ask we

accept you're in no no no no now wait a

minute there might be a couple of

reasons a couple of the details you're

gonna settle the details up between us

all i'm interested in is results i'm a

man who looks at things broadly see my

man who

[Applause]

i almost forgot congratulations

thanks

1944 the miracle is a miracle of

morgan's creek

um and this movie is just relentless i

mean this is

it's just one escalation after another

and you feel so bad for this poor guy

played by uh oh gosh i'm pretty brave

and yeah he was also the star of

what is my third favorite preston

sturgis comedy uh hail the conquering

hero for me that looks like

one of them all um

and uh actually sir just had a whole

kind of unofficial stock company of

actors you see a lot of the same people

in the

films uncle charlie in both sullivan's

travels and miracle morgan's creek uh

any of you uh oldsters you have watched

my three sons the old uh tv sitcom

william demarist is a big preston

sturgis yeah and he frankly to me is the

funniest person in all of preston

sturge's films typically the single

funniest actor um

and uh in this he gets a much bigger

role than he did in sullivan's travels

as the father the uh the single father

of betty hutton's character who has just

has a lot to deal with and it's a great

just a great character um so yeah you

already kind of laid out the the basic

concept of the film is that there's this

uh

this this

this relationship between this uh

this boy played by eddie bracken and

this girl played by uh betty hutton and

and he's been in love with her since

they were in elementary school and uh

she's not paying so much attention to

him these days and she's really set on

going to the party for the soul going

away soldiers her father doesn't want

her to go so she tricks him and uh or

not tricks him but she guilts him into

uh instead of taking him on a taking her

on a date like he was supposed to just

letting her

borrow his car and drop her off

and go to the dance by by herself

against her father's worship wishes and

because he's a bit of a sap he goes

along with it after she sort of makes

him feel bad about it um and then she

ends up in trouble and he's the one

that she uses to try to get herself out

of trouble and in the course of

the one mishap after another

she actually comes to love him

yeah so

this is interesting because i mean this

film pushes boundaries

in a way just in even discussing a sort

of

not an unwed marriage but a quasi-unwed

marriage you couldn't even show someone

and it's really

a rape right

right and you you couldn't even show

someone pregnant you couldn't show a

pregnant woman

in hollywood at the time uh so

um

it's also interesting to consider that

all the craziness in this in the in this

film

in a sense happens to prevent

people from finding out about

an unwed pregnancy um or a scandalous

pregnancy which is interesting i mean

it's a very obviously a very different

um

ethos of the time that that was

considered so important that she make

this respectable as soon as possible it

almost and it almost feels like it's as

much about for her at least at the

beginning as it's much about the scandal

avoiding the scandal as it is about i

need to have a stable family for this

child like like that's the immediate

concern

yeah yeah uh well you know we can't i

think we can't have things both ways

right uh

unfortunately for us

[Music]

sinful human beings as we are and easily

tempted to sin

we can't be protected against

our own bad inclinations

except if there are guard rails and

uh one of the guardrails

in this particular case one of the guard

rails is shame or scandal right um

it is it's impossible to say

simultaneously

marriage is holy

um it's the it's what

almost every young boy a young girl

ought to be aiming towards it's holy and

it's forever and at the same time say oh

oh

uh do what you do out of wedlock it's

okay i mean those two things don't go

here right

um

uh and now of course we want to be as

humane as possible and sturgis is right

i mean

someone's in trouble well we gotta come

to their assistance

uh but

now um

we're people we are people who take

scandal at trivial political things

when the great sins of our time are

right in front of our faces we do them

all the time it causes yeah

yeah yeah if you know if we were talking

about sullivan's travels being an

example of a film that couldn't be made

today

there's definitely zero capacity to to

explore the kinds of things that this

film explores today well it wouldn't

even make sense it's not because they

wouldn't

make it it's like it wouldn't even make

sense under our social condition yeah

that's right that's right and and

because it's not just the fact that you

know like you said thomas it's not just

the fact that she needs to have a

husband and a father to have a stable

family

um

but it's also because of the scandal

and it's also

also a big problem that she actually did

marry a guy right like that bigamy is a

big problem for for a big obstacle for

them as well

so the mishaps involve somehow trying to

regularize yeah that's impossible to

regularize and and and you know at the

end of the movie

the bigwigs have to come into play we

got to get the governor in play right i

mean uh uh i know there have to be

pardons yeah

fast right happens very fast it happens

in fact while she's in the hospital yeah

i i wonder if there isn't a commentary

there about how uh institutions are just

not suited to this level of um

you know uh

like like compassion or or sort of

sorting out

where

justice is in the particulars that we we

need these these guard rails of sort of

general moral principles and so social

you know shame or

or reward uh

but that if you're if you're looking to

the justice system if you're looking to

the banks or you're looking to the

police or to to kind of understand your

situation um it's it's going to be

really really difficult for that to be

the case

right uh institutions can only do

institutional things the real human work

has to be done by human beings yeah

case in

uh

hail the conquering hero too

um

where the bunch of army men decide that

they are going to take it upon

themselves to

turn uh eddie bracken's character into a

hero uh

because they want to do a good deed for

his mother

it's not the army or the navy that can

get that done it's a bunch of guys

um

it's uh

yeah it's it's it's fascinating without

the absolute loyalty of

eddie bracken right normal his name is

in the movie uh and uh betty hutton's

sister

what a killer she is she's ruthless

she's got some of the best lines in the

movie to be i mean

she is

partly sympathizing with her sister and

they're desiring to help her out but

also

you know how i should be so dumb um and

uh partly sticking up for her sister

against the father uh

and uh

it's um it's a great comedy of three

very different people who actually do

love each other um the the father the

two daughters and then you throw eddie

bracken into the mix and and and

whenever he gets excited uh he

starts to stutter this great scene where

he's on the porch with william bemer as

the father and the father is getting out

this revolver um

aiming it and cleaning it and uh

um

yeah it reminded me of where that term

shotgun wedding comes from

that in mind

um back in those days you see this

interesting um

as this was pointed out to me by one of

my friends uh from touchstone magazine

alan carlson uh said that in the

turn of the century around 1900 um

out of wedlock births for blacks in the

united states were in single digit

percents right five six percent we're

talking about um

roughly that of whites

but that does not mean that they were

all conceived out of wedlock

among the poor

the pattern was

to uh

well

anticipate perhaps the wedding day and

then her brothers

come and show up at your door

and you say well hi hi boys what's up he

said well jim

uh we're here to congratulate you on

your upcoming nuptials

yeah right

yeah

and

everybody understood yeah that's the

thing you do

yeah

it's totally not ideal but it's it's

like what are you gonna do in those

kinds of circumstances i mean uh uh it's

it's it's like you were saying tony you

know

sinful creatures that we are

uh

you there have to be these kinds of

these guard rail sort of uh uh system uh

safe fail safes you know uh for for when

when things do go off the rails how to

just kind of wrench them back back

together

right i think that that was sorry go

ahead

you know and even to the awareness right

that that is the kind of thing that

would happen

uh sometimes enough to

if if not to

keep you entirely clean

to ensure that you only get yourself

into that kind of trouble with a woman

that you

uh

and that you would

be agreeable to marry right right

yeah it's fascinating watching this film

because it really feels like uh you know

a time capsule i'm looking at a

different world

and i'm getting

a little peek into what what it might be

like if there was any sort of sense of

of sexual mores or or uh you know uh uh

yeah you know uh

like guiding um

principles i mean i i was so i was so

struck by

betty hudson's concern that her

character's concern

for

uh

for for

resolving this previous marriage

so that she could be free to marry again

you know that that

that uh she she says at a certain point

you know i couldn't do that to you it

would be big of me i couldn't do it to

you and anybody else nowadays would just

be like what are you talking about this

is not a problem like that wasn't real

you

nowadays you have this stuff peddled to

little kids yeah yeah but what's

significant is that even when when when

when betty hudson's character is told i

forget what her name the character's

name was

um

oh yeah when trudy's told that nobody

knows that nobody will know the

be the wiser for it it'll just be you

and me who know uh she still can't

can't go through with it because it's

like

marriage is is

even though she's talking about divorce

and annulment for her it still

represents a real

you know institution um

so so it's it's

it really is like a completely different

social landscape that's being navigated

here and it's it's really fascinating

and preston sturgis is is

is is uh you know highlighting some of

the absurdities that that result in

these kinds of uh circumstances

but i don't think it's you know um

it's certainly not with a view toward

criticizing the the very institutions

you know that are that are that are

being protected right we really want

what what he knows he's got to set up

for us to want

that

eddie bracken's character is in many

ways silly

but he's a really good human being and

he really does love betty hutton

and

she's stupid for not seeing it and she's

she's used him terribly right i mean she

has treated him in a rather

shabby way

but they belong ultimately together

um and so the whole thrust of the movie

has got to be to get them together

meanwhile she's pregnant and that's also

moving towards its um

uh finish

um

did you think right you're watching this

movie the first time

the last 90 seconds of the movie

no i mean i i began to wonder because at

a certain point right uh maybe about

halfway through the film or two thirds

of the way through the film i remembered

how the film began which is

uh

oh my goodness there's been a miracle a

miracle at

morgan's creek and

and so you begin the movie not really

knowing what that that is right and then

yeah about about halfway through the

film i thought you know

i haven't about enough information now

that i should have some sense of what

what this miracle is going to be but i

really didn't didn't really have an

inkling until the very end when when

things are sort of like rushing towards

their their their culmination and that

was when i began to think oh

on you oh this is the then

the first time i saw i was roaring with

laughter i was rolling on the floor with

sheer delight

this is it this is it i never expected

this yeah i i have a strong memory of my

first viewing view it's just being so

having my mouth hanging wide open for

towards the end of the movie like yeah

imagine imagine that you're uh

you know you're you're neurologically

wired so that you're like uh

normal there um and here you're married

and it's one thing to be a nervous

father uh in ordinary circumstances

right but imagine him

in those circumstances right in the

hospital

and then what happens

yeah william demerist is so funny in

this film and it's i if that's another

thing that you probably wouldn't people

probably wouldn't feel as comfortable

joking about today his father repeatedly

trying to physically assault his

daughter

yeah but you know but but even there

even there you know it's like

there's there's a certain graciousness

to that as well you know um

uh like like like with the character of

the

the jail warden in uh in sullivan's

travels you know and um and so we see

the hard edges of this father but then

we kind of

see

the the the warm heart as well and

really in a way he ends up kind of uh

paralleling uh society you know society

has these rough edges um there's there

there are taboos uh there are

expectations there are punishments but

then there's also

genuine warmth and uh and societal

applaum you know so so the the the end

of the film is about just how

how noble and worthy it is and so this

film ends up being as much about the

negative sort of shame the the sort of

uh the via negativa of societal

encouragement by way of of shame and

punishment

as well as

the sort of more positive um

mechanisms of social encouragement by

way of honor

on nobility

respect of what you might call sappy or

sentimental right yeah

yeah yeah and that's not that

in either movies we

it would be i think

utterly unjust to accuse either one of

them of sentimentality

right but they're not s and flip and be

either the bad things that that fall out

have as much to do with trudy's uh you

know imprudence and and and poor

judgment as they do with also with um

with with his just with eddie uh

uh uh why am i drawing a blank on his

name

yeah his his being a total sat you know

like he's a sucker and and he shouldn't

be a sucker and if he hadn't been a

sucker from the beginning then maybe all

of this would have would have been

avoided you know uh so

so i i kind of liked the touch at the

end with the uh the the closing sort of

uh inter-title uh uh quoting shakespeare

about um about some having greatness

thrust upon them uh you know uh it's

like this was a man who really needed to

have he he needed this

if there was anybody who who needed that

kind of shock therapy it's this kind of

character you know because he's just a

mess

now everybody's see the other uh

preston sturgis movies like the palm

beach story and the well the governor in

this film the governor and his assistant

are actually characters reprised from

sturgis's first film as a director the

great mcginty i only just realized that

looking at wikipedia um but the governor

and his uh his assistant played by akim

tamroff uh

are both uh both characters from his

first

his directorial that's cool

eve

with the brilliant

barbara stanwyck who never won an

academy award wow

um opposite henry fonda of all people

playing the

sort of the deadpan dumb guy

um

and the incomparable charles coburn

as um

her lady eve

card sharp i have to admit i just found

the ending to that film very disturbing

i'm just i'm still not sure how i feel

about it

i mean i feel like we're supposed to be

laughing at this guy but i just felt

terrible that whole train scene is just

horrible just horrifying

um

but uh yeah it's very interesting

well so so thomas why did you choose

these two films for us to discuss when

talking about preston surgery okay um

you know what they're just my two

favorite of his films that i've seen um

sullivan's travels was the first that i

watched

um

and uh i've seen it a few times now

this was just my second viewing of

miracle on morgan's creek but that also

struck me as just

probably edging out a couple of the

other ones as the best the ones that

have stuck with me the most the ones

that have been most memorable for me

other than these two would be

uh the lady eve um

palm beach story for or for some reason

i need to watch that again it didn't

make that much of an impression on my

first viewing uh hail the conquering

hero is one of the funniest for me and

then the last one i watched over

christmas uh which is hard to find when

it's on youtube is uh

unfaithfully yours from 1940 have you

seen that tony uh no i haven't um or if

i have it uh

it's insane it is really crazy um it's

um it's got rex harrison and linda linda

darnell

in the main roles and uh

it's about this uh symphony con

conductor who thinks that his wife is

cheating on him with his assistant

and so most of the movie is him

imagining three different ways of taking

revenge on her in one instance he

murders her and frames the assistant and

another he uh forces them uh in another

he he apology forgives her in such a way

as to guilt her and signs a big check to

make her even feel even more guilty so

that they can go off and live happily

together because you know yo you need

youth and and beauty and i can't provide

that to you anymore so just go go he's

acting all gracious just to make her

feel guilty and then the third one he

makes them play a game of russian

roulette and in each of these long

sequences we get

uh they happen because he's conducting

an orchestra at a performance and the

mood of the music is shaping the plot

that he so

wow in the so in the murder sequence at

the end after that sequence is over it

cuts back to him and he's laughing

maniacally as he conducts this orchestra

and then at the end of the film he

attack i'll i won't spoil it too much

but at the end of the film he attempts

to carry these plots out and he's much

less competent in real life as he tries

to successfully try each of these

solutions to the problem than he

imagines in his fantasy it's a really

dark comedy but it's very interesting

and it just turns to total slapstick at

the end

i give you two movies now um uh that are

that are not comedies

um uh but that um

are two of the most powerful

pro-marriage movies that you will ever

want to see and both of them are with

cary grant

they're very different kinds of movies

um he plays different kinds of

characters and

the first movie he's down in his luck

and irresponsible

the second movie he's

he's like sir galahad coming to the

rescue first movie is penny serenade

uh

depicting a marriage that's on the brink

of complete breakdown between uh him and

irene dunn who also is one of my

favorite uh actresses who never won an

academy award by the way uh

a devout catholic um

i believe

entire life right we talked about that

with the awful movie uh yeah

right right

well i mean you don't watch

penny serenade if you are depressed

okay no it does not end it ends

it it ends with hope and love uh but

there's a lot of darkness in that movie

um

not viciousness not nastiness but sheer

unhappiness darkness

disappointment cruel disappointments

um penny serenade in the second movie

people will talk

okay

and then people will talk

uh

cary grant

comes to the rescue he plays a doctor

comes to the rescue of a young

student he's a doctor and a teacher at a

college

a young student who

sees him as a patient

but she also has um is attracted to him

she's

pregnant

out of wedlock

and

um

her situation personally is difficult

she loves her father but her father is

her father would be cruelly disappointed

uh

not angry but disappointed and she

doesn't want to

anyway

people will talk

that movie too

okay

has an ending that you will never

predict right

uh you with the last five minutes of

that movie

you have no idea where they come from

the the the most uh

unusual conversation in hollywood

history

um

happens in the last five minutes of that

movie

uh it's one of my wife's favorite movies

and so so a penny serenade people will

talk

pro-life and pro-marriage movies when

hollywood didn't know that they were

being uh

anything other than

normal

that's great yeah

do you have um what what are your

favorite um

what would you say are your favorite

preston surges movies and what would you

say are your favorite screwball comedies

more generally

uh i think i would go with the two that

we've had today i think sullivan's

travels is my favorite

screwball comedy of all time and my

favorite preston sturgis movie and then

i would i would probably pick miracle

morgan's creek uh i'm very fond of the

lady eve um

uh and i like all the things that

sturgis has done um other screwball

comedies that are great i mean every

everybody did a few right i don't know

if john ford ever did one but frank

capra did a few arsenic and old lace

uh

um you know uh carrie grant did a whole

bunch of them bringing up baby

um

mr blandings builds his dream house the

bachelor and the bobby soxer

uh

there are a lot of really good ones

and then uh

see once you

once you

get creepy

with regard to sex yeah that's yeah it's

not possible anymore right

yeah i i my favorites i think are the

awful truth um i think that's my

favorite have you seen that tony

and then another one which

kind of has a similar ending which is it

happened one night by frank capras

another of my favorite

oh gosh yeah yeah happened one night

sure that's a great uh

that's a that's a that's a deeply

catholic movie too

the more law makes mirth possible

otherwise degenerates into

uh

lewdness and the lassitude that comes

after lewdness right there there you get

the old me strange old medieval

saying um

triste este

every living creature after copulation

is sad

wow um

it well

but not when

we are in a world of mirth

and uh

the sheer innocent merriment i think is

gone

most of our young people have never

known it

never known it where would they know it

so

lately we've my wife and i have been

watching uh

one of the situation comedies that has

long been held up for contempt uh by

people who know better um the adventures

of ozzie and harriet right

uh well right now we have actually been

watching them they're not sentimental um

they're they're a bit zany

they're fun they are funny actually

they're intelligent and funny you like

the people but one thing that um one

thing that uh

just leaps out at you um it's the nelson

family itself that stars in the

adventures of ozzie inherit this husband

and wife and their boys

right the nelsons are the nelsons and um

uh you can watch as you watch the series

you watch these boys grow up and they

start dating um and there are dances all

the time uh the the attraction between

boys and girls is natural

effortless

um

to be expected

uh

it's the weekend well what are you going

to do well you're going to go out on a

date

where are you going to go where you can

go to the dance because there's always a

dance someplace or other uh you go to

the bowling alley you can go do this you

can go do that right i mean everybody

expects this sort of thing and

you know there's there's a lot of

innocent flirtation

um there's a lot of real

uh sexual tension

um

and a lot of merriment it all kinds goes

together now it's all gonna come to

smash where they live in hollywood this

is not middle america right there there

are going to be some problems here but

before there were all these problems

so obvious

there were a lot of innocent things that

young people could do and they did all

the time

i'm old enough to have

arrived at the very tail end of this

right

i know that

10 years later

it was all gone

so when i was in high school it was

still

possible

to take a

girl out

and say well where are we going to go

let's go play miniature golf

well let's go to bowling right well

let's go get something to eat let's go

to the movie

and uh nobody would assume

that you were doing anything more than

that right or you might

you might be kissing but you wouldn't be

doing more than that

uh as soon as i went to princeton

uh as a freshman in 1977

that was not the case there

and in many ways a very dark place

because there was no

it no longer have been

obliterated

at least

morally acceptable if not downright

wholesome ways

in which boys and girls were expected to

get together all the time to have fun

that didn't exist at princeton and there

was a lot of loneliness

and uh things have gotten incomparably

worse

that's another thing

it's like a nostalgia that i get

watching these films it happened

watching the awful truth um

it's it's a nostalgia for something that

i didn't even have

you know like when when they go out uh

in the awful truth out to uh the the

club to go dancing you know and it's

like everybody's dressed up it's really

well lit there's you know a live band

you know uh uh

like it just seems like my kind of vibe

i would love to go to a place like that

you know go out with my wife and it

looks like after that night

yeah but even that was funny because it

was like it was like

everybody was super embarrassed you know

like this was too low brow you know um

so

so yeah you know uh

this okay my wife

uh bought uh

uh for

she found online

uh at

an issue of uh

life magazine from 1943 the reason why

she bought it was that it featured

a story on the town where we live right

now okay

and um

the the story is called letter from home

and apparently there i we live in a

magdalen college of the liberal arts is

in a small town in the mountains new

hampshire 1100 people at the time not

too many more now

110 boys

were in the service

uh at that moment when the article was

written in a population of eleven

hundred

so

the girls were you know wait for the

boys to come back home and the warner

women's club

uh sent uh a regular newsletter out to

the the boys from warner to tell them

what's going on at home

and

so

uh and a

a writer for life

got hold of the idea came to warner

and wrote a big article about what's

going on in warner

so that all the servicemen everywhere

uh in our armed forces would read the

article and he said i'm giving you this

because

though you don't live in war

these are the sorts of things that

almost all of you know from your own

towns right

one of them is

what everybody looks forward to

the saturday night dances

uh

at the

high school hall

the high school is just on the street

it's like right on the main street

not out in the boondocks somewhere not

consolidated district high schools right

there on the main street and they have

saturday night dances

and when you read in this you see

everybody goes to the dances

this is not just

teenagers

everybody goes

still mom and dad are going grandma and

grandpa are going and there's a picture

of an 11 year old boy

dancing with grown women who are twice

as tall as he is

having a grand old time because that's

what everybody does it's every saturday

night there's a dance at the high school

and

i there probably has not been such a

thing in this town

for 20 years

yeah

it was a regular part of life and the

author is assuming one is just like

every place in the united states

yeah and the band is just the

local guys playing musical instruments

right i mean when when they go to the

the high school dance or not the high

school dance it's the uh i mean it looks

like it is out of high school but um

it's the dance for the servicemen at the

beginning of uh miracle at morgan's

creek again i thought hey this looks

like a good time um and then they go to

the country club and the country club

seems like a great time too you know the

light it's well lit and you know uh

respectable people and champagne i mean

you know of course like uh

uh

there's there's there's darkness there

too you know but

but it has to be like it has to operate

in the shadows and and through

manipulation and trickery you know and

and sort of under the cover of dark um

it can't just be out in the open and

that's like

uh

yeah i have this nostalgia for for

something i never even experienced

myself you know

oh yeah there's a scene in um

oh gosh why am i forgetting it the young

guy and the young gal are are out

walking in a park in city park it's very

late at night when a group of children

come up

okay

um

one of them is you can't take it with

you

you can't take it with you that's it

that's it right it's jimmy stewart and

gene arthur uh and you can't take it

with her you're right and um

the boy who's the leader of this and

none of them can be more than 13 years

old

uh says uh to jimmy stewart you want to

learn the big apple

um

and a ferdinand will teach you the big

apple

and so they give him the diamond uh uh

he the boy starts you know grabs hold of

jean arthur grabs hold her by the hands

and she's about a foot taller than he is

and he's chewing gum and he says come on

sister shake it and and he he's so

there's this kid teaching her how to

dance right um and at first she's a

little awkward then she gets into it

everybody starts to clap jimmy stewart

starts to get into the act uh a

policeman comes the kids run away uh

and you said wow that's from a different

universe yeah

right yeah it's like the number of times

that the police got involved in the

awful truth when the music got too loud

right yeah

but yeah you know i'm i'm really

grateful for uh this like deep dive

we've done on screwball comedy i mean

granted we could have gone a lot we

could have done a lot more than we we

ended up doing um but and this is sort

of the first time that we've really done

this on the show um

but uh but i you know before we like

close this chapter on criteria uh

talking about these screwball comedy is

is there anything else that we need to

say about about this genre before we

wrap it up

you know

we had i've sometimes said to to my

students

that the west enjoyed

an 800 year long tradition of

love poetry love songs

and

what we might loosely call romances

right romantic comedy

and that

came to an end in my lifetime

right

uh

there are still

like zombie type things that go by the

name of such but they're not really

um how many love songs will your average

young person even know right love songs

beautiful love songs

that tradition is dead yeah so the

revolution killed it

killed it

uh buried it

and uh it was a long we take it for

granted it started in the high middle

ages it lasted until the sexual

revolution it had its death rattle in

some of the decadent songs of late rock

and roll and it's dead

it's dead

uh and now we can't even persuade uh

ordinary people that boys and girls

ought to be attracted to each other

yeah i think

i think that this is true um

you know i'm i

yeah

yeah i think that this is sadly true

tony before before we go um is there any

any new writing you have out any new

books or anything you want to promote

well i'm constantly writing things i

almost don't even want to say uh

i'm working on a couple of books right

now

but what i really would like to promote

is our college

um

magdalen college of the liberal arts up

here in

warner new hampshire beautiful site on a

mountain um

and uh

not only are we faithfully catholic but

you get a heck of a great education

in arts and letters uh in science and

philosophy and theology

um

it's uh it's a wonderful community and

i'm really blessed to be part of it

great and so yeah i'll link people to

magdalen college as well they have some

nice newsletters that that you're

involved with uh that i've read yeah

yeah i'm just starting the fact i owe

them something

okay

well uh thank you so much tony for

coming on the show this was really fun

oh thanks for having me this is a blast

yeah well i think next we have to do the

twilight zone it's been a long time

coming

uh

that was the

first thing uh the first thing that ever

idea i ever had for a show with you was

when i was starting my other show the

catholic culture podcast i saw a

thing where you said you wish someone

would pay you to talk about every

episode write an article about every

episode of the twilight zone

and so at the time back in 2018 i was

like i want my first episode of the

catholic culture podcast to be anthony

esslin talking about the twilight zone

because then nobody will possibly be

able to pigeonhole my podcast they'll

have no idea what's coming next

um

you know

so that didn't end up happening because

i think i just didn't know how to get

through to you at the time but uh but uh

yeah we'll have to do that at some point

i've only seen one episode

so uh maybe you can maybe uh sometime

down the line we'll have you pick three

episodes to discuss because i've only

seen one i'm not an at all an expert on

this you've only seen one i saw the one

where the guy tells the story about

being at the monastery in the middle of

the wilderness and the devil shows up

that's literally the only one oh yeah

well they're all almost all are greek

tragedies or christian comedies yeah uh

mostly greek tragedies

and um i'm gonna give you one to to to

watch

that'll

you know pound you in the gut

uh it's called walking distance blocking

distance okay

walking distance

all right uh thank you so much tony um

thanks thomas thanks james and uh

everybody who's listening please do

check out these movies and and subscribe

on the catholic culture channel if

you're watching on youtube

um

i think we'll be we'll be in our next uh

off vatican film list movies we will be

getting into film noir finally finally a

little bit uh but we'll be doing some

vatican film lists some more vatican

film list movies before then

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