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[RADIO STATIONS CHANGE]
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Where's this, Ballymurphy?
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See who I can see here.
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I think that's my street.
5
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Oh, Ballymurphy Road.
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Flip me!
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I felt a wee bit emotional
there, looking back.
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They were happy times, I suppose.
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Your youth's always
pretty happy, isn't it?
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You think back, because maybe
that's the innocence of the times,
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where you don't really know
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the stresses and the worries
of the older people.
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So you're happy in yourself.
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You look back and think
your life is happy.
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It was good.
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You don't really do many
interviews like this, do you?
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No.
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I said I would do it for you,
and I would just like to do it
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and then get it behind me.
20
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I was actually going
to phone last week and say,
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- "I'm not doing it."
- Were you?
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I was crying.
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I've been crying an awful lot.
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The feelings all come back
out again,
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so putting it out there
for people to see,
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our life had been on camera long
enough, do you know what I mean?
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But I'm OK. I'm OK, yeah.
28
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I'm strong.
29
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The Troubles, that's been our life
from, you know,
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from we were children,
and the flick of a switch,
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your life changed for ever.
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You're brought into that that group
of victims that have been affected
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by the Troubles.
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You're one of them.
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It's turned out lovely.
Look at that.
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Somebody is looking down on you.
37
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This is Upperlands.
38
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We're about 40 miles from Belfast
and 40 miles from Londonderry.
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My name is June McMullan.
40
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I'm just a country lass
from Northern Ireland.
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Upperlands, it's a quiet, quiet,
sleepy wee village
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in the middle of nowhere.
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Everybody would know everybody.
44
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I know our village
was very much Protestant,
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but that didn't mean we wouldn't
have let Catholics in
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or anything like that.
47
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We were mixing together
at school and youth clubs
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and things like that.
49
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I met Johnny on a Friday night
at a wee tiny Orange Hall
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in the middle of nowhere.
51
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I was going with him
when I was about 14 and a half
52
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and I mind my mother
chasing him from the door,
53
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saying, "Away home, the boy, ye!"
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But, no, he kept coming back.
55
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He was a gentle person.
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And he had a car.
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If you know what a Lada is!
It was like a skip
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with a roof,
and he loved them cars.
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When you got a lift to a dance,
you need to make sure
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you got a lift home.
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So he would take all us
girls home.
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When you're out in the country,
like, the Troubles were happening
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00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,869
in other places.
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There was nothing in our area,
what were they going to blow up?
65
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A couple of sheep, a couple
of cows in the field,
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like a tree
or something like that?
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Country life is so,
so different to city life.
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On the news,
it was constantly talked.
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IRA, IRA,
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UDA, UVF.
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Any kids that were reared
in the city
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couldn't have had much of a life.
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There were so many bombs
going off in the city.
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00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,949
This is the reality
of Belfast today.
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Bombs in the city centre,
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so much disruption,
so many explosions.
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From time to time,
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you forget that it's become
part of everyday life.
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And that really is
one of the tragedies of it.
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My name is Bernadette O'Rawe.
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I grew up in the Ballymurphy
area of West Belfast.
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It wasn't much fun in Ballymurphy.
83
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But you made your own
fun in the area, you know?
84
00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,069
I was just coming up
for maybe 16, I think.
85
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I hadn't really been anywhere
outside the area
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because you couldn't go
into the town
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because there was random bombs
here or there.
88
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So people tended to stay
within their own areas
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from both communities.
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There was a community centre,
that became one of the places to go.
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00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,109
I met Ricky in 1975.
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We met in the community centre,
and that's where we began our story.
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We met at a dance.
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She was four years younger than me.
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Couldn't believe my good fortune.
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I had the best-looking girl
in West Belfast,
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punching over my weight.
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No, I just liked the look of him.
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We got together,
we went out together,
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and then I got to know him.
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And then I kind of liked
what I got to know.
102
00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,229
Maybe I got filled in about
Ricky's family and his background
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00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,829
from my own daddy,
who knew more about them
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because he went about
with his daddy.
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00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,309
And then I started to realise
how much Republicanism
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00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,229
was in his family, because up
till then, I didn't know
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00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,560
much about Republicanism.
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00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,989
In fact,
I didn't know anything about it.
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[NEWS REPORT IN GERMAN]
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The future of Ballymurphy
is very bleak.
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That's me.
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This German documentary team
were looking for someone
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to speak about Ballymurphy.
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Really, there was no work
and there was no money.
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00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,509
And it was a society that lived
from hand to mouth.
116
00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,200
I mean, for a revolutionary,
it was tailor made.
117
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I was involved in the IRA.
118
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,069
By the time Bernie
came on the scene,
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00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,349
I'd been involved
for almost four years.
120
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,949
She knew I was a
Provisional IRA man.
121
00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,080
I was known as a gunman.
122
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:27,909
And I liked it.
123
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,269
I liked the thought of taking
the fight to the British.
124
00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,480
And I was a committed Republican,
I truly was.
125
00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,069
If you're going to be out on
operations, sooner or later,
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you're going to get caught
or you're going to get killed.
127
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One or the other.
128
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:58,149
I was 18, I was pregnant,
and then we decided to get married.
129
00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,429
I didn't really know what else
to expect.
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00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,189
I knew I was going to be a mother.
131
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,429
When we got married,
I knew he was in the IRA.
132
00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,989
But I said to him, "No, I don't want
you in the IRA because I don't want
133
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,469
"to be left sitting
as a prisoner's wife."
134
00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,480
And he said, "OK, then,
I'll give it up."
135
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But he didn't.
136
00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:19,960
He didn't.
137
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,909
We got this house up in Moyard
and he left the house one morning
138
00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,629
and said he was going
to look for a job.
139
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,869
I said, "Right, OK, then,
I'll see you later."
140
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,549
What had you told her that morning?
141
00:08:33,560 --> 00:08:36,829
That I was going to go out,
looking for a job.
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- Looking for work?
- Yep.
143
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:50,429
To sustain their operations,
144
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,189
the Provisional IRA have launched
a concerted campaign
145
00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,469
of armed robbery,
146
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,069
and hundreds of thousands of pounds
have been stolen,
147
00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,189
much of it to fund
the Provisional IRA.
148
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,589
We were asked to rob this bank
for the IRA.
149
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It was an order.
150
00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,549
We robbed the bank,
held up the staff, we held up
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00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:12,429
the customers and filled a
pillowcase full of money.
152
00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,400
It was a good old-fashioned
Jesse James type robbery.
153
00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,629
Cops were waiting on us
outside the bank.
154
00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,829
I ended up getting arrested
and I remember actually saying
155
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the words, "Mother Ireland,
get off my fucking back."
156
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Right?
157
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He was sent out to rob a bank,
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and I was absolutely flabbergasted.
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Sent out to rob a bank? For who?
160
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He's not in anything.
161
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And I thought, how was I so stupid
not to know that he was still there?
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It was awful.
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It truly was, it was awful.
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And you feel like
an absolute bastard.
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And I let her down badly.
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He was sentenced to eight years.
167
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This was exactly what I didn't want.
168
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I thought, "Oh, no, no!
169
00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:08,069
"Now I'm going to be
a prisoner's wife.
170
00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,560
"Now I'm going to be
a single mother."
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00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,429
I didn't have much of a dream
prior to that
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00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,109
but we got married
and I thought,
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00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:26,069
"Well, we have a baby now, so we'll
make this dream along the way."
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But this was a broken dream.
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This turned into a nightmare.
176
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And I was very,
very angry with Ricky.
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Very let down, very hurt.
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00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:42,320
And it was a very hard
and very lonely time.
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00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,989
This is the home for the majority
of those convicted of terrorist
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00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:51,629
offences in Northern Ireland.
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00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:56,189
It's called the Maze prison,
where just over 1,000 prisoners
182
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,720
are kept in the so-called H-blocks.
183
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,229
The government ruled on March 1st
last year that terrorists
184
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,349
convicted of crimes committed
after that date would no longer
185
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,309
get special category status
but must wear prison uniform,
186
00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,440
just like ordinary criminals.
187
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,269
We were in prison because
we were fighting the struggle
188
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,509
against the British government.
189
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,109
Prior to 1st March 1976,
190
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,149
all Republican prisoners didn't
have to wear prison clothes.
191
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:28,949
They didn't have to do prison work.
192
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,829
They could be in their own cages,
have their own command structure,
193
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,909
virtually political prisoners.
194
00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,109
That was the prevailing
wind until the Brits says
195
00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,669
there will be no more political
status. From here on in,
196
00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:43,709
every prisoner is a criminal.
197
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,109
The Republican prisoners,
they refused to be criminalised.
198
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,349
They refused to wear prison clothes.
199
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,269
They refused to do prison work.
200
00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,629
And they were thrown into a cell
and they were thrown a blanket,
201
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,269
hence the term "blanket man".
202
00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,509
I'm on the blanket protest
203
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:06,389
And my efforts will not fail...
204
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:10,389
The time I was sentenced,
for me not to go on the blanket
205
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,469
would have been very dishonourable.
206
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:18,309
I would not wear
their prison garb
207
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,589
I was a blanket man
208
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:27,229
I'll not accept their status
209
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,349
Never be criminalised...
210
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,029
My hesitation was Bernadette.
211
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:37,669
After not telling her
I was back in the IRA,
212
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,509
here I was going on
this blanket thing, right?
213
00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,709
That was going to ensure
that every minute that I was on it
214
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,669
was a minute longer
before I could get back to her.
215
00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:51,320
Right? So in many ways,
it was a double betrayal.
216
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,520
You had to get a minibus
up to the jail.
217
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:09,549
You had a wee box.
218
00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:13,589
And sometimes the prison officer
just came in and stood right in
219
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,160
and you only got
half an hour a month.
220
00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:21,989
You're looking at a different man.
221
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,989
He was obsessed with his role
and his Republicanism,
222
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,349
even though I was sitting there
as his wife. I had to go up.
223
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,760
I wanted to go up,
but I hated going up.
224
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:35,549
There were a lot of women out there.
225
00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,349
There was a lot of, I would have
called them now, looking back,
226
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,149
Republican groupies.
227
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,189
There were some women
flocked to men.
228
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,629
They looked up to
and admired these men.
229
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:50,469
You know, there was this machoism
they thought came from them.
230
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,909
You know, Republicanism
and that sort of life,
231
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,229
it was OK for them.
232
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:55,840
It just wasn't OK for me.
233
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,389
Women were left carrying the can.
234
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,589
You know, they'd to do the
triple shift, is what they say.
235
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,149
You know, keep the men happy
in jail and look after the kids
236
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,949
and run the house.
237
00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,040
Women were like
second-class citizens.
238
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,949
When most of the men were in prison,
239
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,240
their kids were reared
by the women.
240
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,389
Those kids were...
They were lost as well.
241
00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,440
There was a whole generation
of kids lost.
242
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,069
They grew up and it was such
an unbalanced society.
243
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,200
They grew up without their fathers,
without a father figure.
244
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,429
I'm Bernadette McDonnell.
245
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,720
I grew up in Lyndon Avenue,
it was just off Andersonstown.
246
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:15,160
There was me, my mummy, Joseph,
and my daddy when he was there.
247
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,309
I can remember Mummy saying
that it was a thing then,
248
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,589
like, fellas didn't push prams.
It was a woman's job.
249
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,869
She says, "Your da,
when he came back,"
250
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,749
she said, "He pushed yous up
and down them hills,"
251
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,789
and, you know, he was so proud.
252
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,949
He was always, you know, hands on.
Whenever he could, he would.
253
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,760
He was there.
254
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:37,989
My daddy was my daddy.
255
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,440
My daddy was just an ordinary man.
256
00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,720
Nobody knew you were in the IRA.
257
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,629
I sort of can't remember
the bomb itself.
258
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,200
It would have been just on the news.
259
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,549
I can remember them coming in
saying they got my daddy.
260
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:00,989
He was sentenced,
when he went to Long Kesh,
261
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,309
got sentenced
for 14 and a half years.
262
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,949
So when he went there,
he decided there and then
263
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,920
that he wasn't taking visits and
would not let me or Joseph see him.
264
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,269
- So you didn't see your dad?
- No.
265
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,029
Four and a half years.
266
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,749
The only communication we had
with him was wee letters
267
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,469
that were smuggled in and out
of the prison.
268
00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,549
And there was nothing worse
than your mummy,
269
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,669
if you were messing about,
or you'd done something,
270
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,349
and she'd have said,
"I'm writing to your daddy."
271
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,869
The thought of it
would have killed you!
272
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,949
And it was... We laugh about it now.
Like, what could he have done?
273
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,829
You know, when you get older
you realise,
274
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,549
"Sure, what could he have done?"
275
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,960
But then it was, "Oh, she's going
to write and tell him."
276
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:50,909
My mummy just had to get strong.
277
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,840
Mummy had two young kids
to look after.
278
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,109
[NEWSREEL]: The number of killed
and injured have made this
279
00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:10,429
the worst weekend for months
in Northern Ireland.
280
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,189
But as in the case of most
reprisals,
281
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,149
the people who suffered
weren't the ones who started it all.
282
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,789
Just innocent customers
sitting in a bar.
283
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:22,509
[NEWSREEL]: A bus carrying workers
to their homes in Bessbrook village
284
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,629
was stopped by gunmen and ten
Protestants shot in cold blood.
285
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:29,069
A Republican group admitted
responsibility.
286
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,189
A Protestant paramilitary
organisation is thought responsible
287
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,669
for the bomb, which killed two
and injured five members
288
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,149
of Lisburn's Hibernian Club
last night.
289
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,589
I hated to see the news.
290
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,829
I hated to see another...
somebody had been blew up,
291
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,389
somebody had been shot.
292
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,349
[NEWSREEL]: It's the first time in
several months that the letter bomb
293
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:50,349
has been used as a weapon
in Northern Ireland,
294
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:52,589
and this will no doubt be seen
as an escalation
295
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,149
of the Provisional IRA's campaign
against prison officers.
296
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,949
A number of the devices
have been delivered
297
00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,720
in and around Belfast today.
298
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,509
I thought we were lucky
out in the country.
299
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:06,520
I thought it was
a safe haven out there.
300
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:13,669
There's one of Johnnie and Adrian
at the front door of the flat.
301
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:15,200
That's a good one.
302
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:20,469
At that stage, Johnnie was working
in a mechanic's place,
303
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,909
and he says, "I think I'll hand in
my job and join the police."
304
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,589
There you see it's
the Royal Ulster Constabulary.
305
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,509
The first time he brung
the forms home,
306
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,189
I threw them in the bin.
I thought, "No, I will not.
307
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,949
"I'll not go that road."
It wasn't... it wasn't safe.
308
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,989
[SIREN WAILS]
309
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,909
[ARCHIVE REEL]: By any standards,
the RUC is unique.
310
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,269
No other force in the United Kingdom
is permanently armed with guns.
311
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,949
Our main problem, of course,
is the fact that we undertake
312
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,749
policing in a province
that's divided against itself.
313
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,709
And it's against that background
that the police have to perform
314
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,989
their duties, which are in service
of both and all sections
315
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,760
of the community.
316
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,989
You could hear in the news
that police were being targeted.
317
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,709
Probably the Republican side
of the community would have seen
318
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,069
the police as representing the Queen
and the British government,
319
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:19,680
and they didn't want that.
320
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:24,909
I just thought we'd be better
not going down that road
321
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,349
and staying away.
322
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:30,229
And Johnnie said, "No, it'd be
a better job, better pension,
323
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,000
"better life, better pay."
So he joined.
324
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,669
It was a good job.
It was a good living.
325
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,669
There wouldn't have been any riots
down in round where we lived.
326
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,549
So Johnnie's way of life
would have been just doing his job,
327
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:50,040
but being extra careful.
328
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,880
He loved going out in the community
and doing the work of the police.
329
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,160
We were very happy.
330
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,429
We weren't getting a great deal
of traction from outside in general,
331
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,949
because we were lying there every
day and we were doing nothing
332
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,560
on the blanket and nobody
had much interest in us.
333
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,200
And the dirty protests started
and a bit of momentum gathered.
334
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,069
[ARCHIVE REEL]: These are
the first pictures to be taken
335
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:36,800
of the protesters.
336
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,709
We put shit on the wall
and piss out the door.
337
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,909
We were doing something positive,
338
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:45,029
as we seen it,
we were fighting back.
339
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,069
There was actually a fight.
340
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,549
We're political prisoners!
We want political status!
341
00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:53,280
We're political prisoners!
342
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,429
We didn't shave,
we didn't wash.
343
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,309
We didn't brush our teeth
for three and a half years.
344
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:00,909
You walked in the H Block,
345
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,720
you were hit with
an abominable smell.
346
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,269
Bloody drain running.
347
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,240
I hated maggots. Hated them.
348
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,269
The next thing, these fucking
things came and started to emerge.
349
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,469
And I was aghast.
Never seen a maggot in my life.
350
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,549
Dozens of them!
351
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:29,880
Here's me, "Fuck!
What are we going to do?"
352
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,749
But there was other guys,
their hair was just full
353
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,360
of dozens and dozens of maggots.
354
00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:01,600
It was horrendous.
355
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,240
But the camaraderie
was just incredible.
356
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,949
That was the one thing that kept
the blanket men together.
357
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,560
And did Bernadette visit you?
Every month, religiously.
358
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,309
It was very, very unpleasant.
359
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,309
I don't think I would ever forget
the smell.
360
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,789
Ever forget the smell,
or ever forget what it was like
361
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,709
even kissing Ricky.
362
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,909
I used to go home
and try and rub my lips,
363
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,749
you know, because I could feel
that smell on my lips.
364
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,669
And this was horrendous.
365
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,189
It was a horrific experience.
366
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,389
She had to kiss me
because I had to give over
367
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,709
wee letters, wee communications...
we called them comms...
368
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,749
to the outside leadership.
369
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,709
It was wee tissue papers
and when Ricky came on a visit
370
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,960
then you had to kiss it over.
371
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,949
There was just this assumption,
you'll be brought down,
372
00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:01,949
you'll go in there,
you'll get that letter.
373
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,669
It was just this expectancy.
374
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,109
I was told what to do,
as if they owned me.
375
00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:09,749
When you say they owned you,
who is the "they"?
376
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,389
The Provos, the Sinn Fein.
The Provos, you know,
377
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,080
they were the ones the letters
was coming from, back and forward.
378
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,589
I just felt I'm drawn into this
wee world here
379
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,480
where I don't want to be.
380
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,949
All the time all this anger
was growing inside of me.
381
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,200
I got by, but I hated it.
382
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,949
I hated every minute of being
a prisoner's wife.
383
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,349
I never knew the word hate
until I got married,
384
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:37,800
until this happened.
385
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,269
[MARGARET THATCHER]: Her Majesty
The Queen has asked me to form
386
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,789
a new administration.
Where there is discord,
387
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,269
may we bring harmony.
388
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,360
And where there is despair,
may we bring hope.
389
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,709
[NEWSREEL]: Lord Mountbatten has been
killed by an explosion on his yacht
390
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,269
off the west coast
of the Irish Republic.
391
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,589
The Provisional IRA
have said they did it.
392
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,869
The blast also killed his grandson,
Nicholas, who was 14.
393
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,469
A member of the crew died as well.
394
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,269
Lord Mountbatten was a close
relative of both the Queen
395
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,309
and the Duke of Edinburgh.
396
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,749
[NEWSREEL]: It was at Warrenpoint last
week that all the British Army's
397
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,429
fears about the new Provisional IRA
organisation and tactics
398
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,509
were confirmed.
399
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,189
[NEWSREEL]: This multiple killing,
the worst the security forces
400
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,549
have ever suffered in Northern
Ireland, coming as it does
401
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,029
after the Mountbatten tragedy,
must serve to only further
402
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,760
heighten tensions
in Northern Ireland.
403
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,749
Now, don't move.
404
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,029
Can you please stand still?
And I will move.
405
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,749
I will move to see the people.
How are you?
406
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,589
Lord Mountbatten was Britain,
and Britain was Lord Mountbatten.
407
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,709
Raze the H Block!
We want H Block wiped out!
408
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,789
We want freedom for our country!
409
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,880
And your soldiers out!
410
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:14,589
[NEWSREEL]: The British government
have made it clear
411
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,749
there's no going back to the
pre '76 arrangements and meanwhile,
412
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,749
neither the blanket protest
nor the dirty protest
413
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,629
have had the slightest effect
in persuading the authorities
414
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,229
that those convicted
of terrorist offences
415
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:27,989
should have political status.
416
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,789
The British government
just sat back and said,
417
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,520
"Fuck them. Who cares?"
418
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,269
We were on the dirty protest for
the guts of three and a half years
419
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,069
and it had run its course.
420
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:44,949
The British conceded none
of our five demands.
421
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,880
So we had to end it.
422
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:50,829
Something needed to present itself.
423
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,360
And what presented itself
was the hunger strike.
424
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,869
Well, there was a huge list.
425
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,709
There might have been
70 or 80 names on it,
426
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,389
with people wanting
to go on hunger strike.
427
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,269
And our job was to pick people
who would die.
428
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:11,960
It's as simple as that.
429
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,709
Bobby Sands went on hunger strike,
on his own, on 1st March.
430
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,469
[MARGARET THATCHER]: We have a hunger
strike at the Maze prison
431
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,400
in the quest for what they call
political status.
432
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,349
There is no such thing as political
murder, political bombing
433
00:26:32,360 --> 00:26:34,669
or political violence.
434
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,549
There is only criminal murder,
criminal bombing
435
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,200
and criminal violence.
436
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,149
We will not compromise on this.
437
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,880
There will be no political status.
438
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:50,389
Everything got more tense.
439
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,269
You know, when you went up
for a visit,
440
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:54,989
things were getting worse
on the outside and, you know,
441
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,389
the whole thing was gathering
momentum.
442
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,240
[SHOUTING, DRUMS BANGING]
443
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,389
[CROWD]: Brits out!
444
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,949
People who had no interest
were putting their weight
445
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,149
to get behind the prisoners,
to get this situation resolved,
446
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,040
in the hope of trying to save lives.
447
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,469
You thought by putting your face
in the crowd and building the crowd
448
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,520
that maybe the numbers here on
the streets will get this stopped.
449
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,269
The torture must be called
by its proper name.
450
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,989
So must all forms of oppression
451
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,280
and exploitation of man by the
state, of one people by the other.
452
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,829
[ARCHIVE REEL]: Britain's problem
does not end with Sands.
453
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,629
Behind the corrugated
defences of the Maze prison,
454
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,589
there are three other men
in the queue
455
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,069
for an agonising martyrdom.
456
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,160
The IRA has phased the hunger strike
to maximise pressure on the British.
457
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,829
As the hunger strikers
near the critical stage,
458
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,509
the atmosphere will become
more tense.
459
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,149
The temperature will raise.
460
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,629
The frustration
will become more intense.
461
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,880
And eventually
there will be a confrontation.
462
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,669
You did feel sorry for them,
but I didn't think they would go
463
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,189
as far as what they did.
464
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,480
I thought they would have called
it off, like the dirty protest.
465
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,709
Like, who in this day and age
would starve themselves to death
466
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,520
for a cause?
467
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,320
The wing itself became
like a morgue.
468
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,160
It was a death march.
469
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,909
Because we all knew Bobby
wasn't going to stop.
470
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,880
Unless the British moved...
471
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,389
...substantially,
he was going to die.
472
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,749
Mrs Sands, when are you coming
to see your son again?
473
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,280
Tomorrow. Tomorrow again.
474
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,789
Do you think if he does
go into a coma,
475
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,229
you would give the authorisation
for him to be intravenously fed?
476
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:22,509
No, he told me not to.
477
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,189
It's a sad thing to say,
and I would feel...
478
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,109
I love my son, just like
any other mother does,
479
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,760
but I wouldn't.
480
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,269
After 21 days or something,
he left our wing
481
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,160
and was taken up
to the prison hospital.
482
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:45,709
I remember just talking,
483
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,309
just having a quiet word with him.
"How are you, Bob?"
484
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,909
And there was an awful sadness
in his eyes.
485
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,269
He didn't want to die.
486
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,680
He was hoping against hope
that some solution could be found.
487
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,789
[NEWSREEL]: An IRA man on
hunger strike in the Maze prison,
488
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,949
Bobby Sands, has been left
with a straight fight
489
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,909
against the official Unionist
candidate, Mr Harry West,
490
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,349
in next month's Fermanagh
and South Tyrone by-election,
491
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,629
after the withdrawal
of the independent candidate.
492
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,349
Sands, Bobby.
493
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,989
Anti H Block, Armagh.
Political prisoner,
494
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,789
30,000...
[CHEERING]
495
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,269
...492...
496
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,589
[ARCHIVE REEL]: Hunger striker
prisoner Bobby Sands
497
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,269
has won the by-election in Northern
Ireland by a narrow majority,
498
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,800
but it's still a propaganda boost
for the IRA.
499
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,360
There was a hope.
500
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,389
It was a very faint hope
that maybe because he was now an MP,
501
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,589
Thatcher would be reluctant
to let him die.
502
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,509
I understand Mr Sands is still
on hunger strike and I regret
503
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,629
that he has not decided
to come off it.
504
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,069
No concessions
as they have asked for?
505
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:00,720
No. There can be no possible
concessions on political status.
506
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,349
[ARCHIVE REEL]: Bobby Sands,
IRA man serving a 14-year sentence
507
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,360
for arms offences, begins
the 61st day of his hunger strike.
508
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:19,989
How's your son, Mrs Sands?
509
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:25,869
My son's dying, and I would like
to appeal to the people...
510
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,869
...for to remain calm
511
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,520
and to have no fighting
or cause no death or destruction.
512
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,240
Take it away.
513
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:41,720
Thanks very much.
514
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,469
[NEWSREEL]: In the last hour,
the news has filtered through
515
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,269
to this community that Bobby Sands
has died after 66 days
516
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:04,640
of hunger strike.
517
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,200
It was just awful.
It was just...
518
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,920
...incredibly, incredibly sad.
519
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:22,320
You know?
520
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,469
It was a blessing...
521
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,120
...to have met him.
522
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,400
[BIN LIDS RATTLE]
523
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,040
I can remember hearing the bin lids
when Bobby Sands died.
524
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,389
There was a lot more rioting.
525
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,349
It definitely did up the ante,
there's no doubt about that.
526
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,749
Belfast was ratcheted up
to boiling point, you know.
527
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:10,840
It was craziness.
528
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,269
The tribal thing split
the two communities in half.
529
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,589
But the Catholics would be mourning
the death of the hunger strikers,
530
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,680
and we'd be praying for them to die,
you know what I mean?
531
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,549
[GUNFIRE]
532
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,149
Oh, I just get the shivers,
even thinking about it.
533
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,200
The atmosphere was so heavy.
534
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,160
You felt it and you heard it.
535
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,640
You just knew
it's going to just explode.
536
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,189
I think those, for me, are probably
the worst times that I remember,
537
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:59,080
whenever Northern Ireland was very,
very close to all-out civil war.
538
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,560
Let's have you,
you fucking bastard!
539
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,720
[EXPLOSIONS]
540
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,909
Can I ask you how you feel
about Bobby Sands' death?
541
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,880
Delighted. Delighted.
542
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,360
Here, yo, yo, yo!
543
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,749
I mean, there was 100,000 people
or something
544
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,629
at Bobby Sands' funeral.
545
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:51,080
There was so much fear
and anger and hopelessness.
546
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,880
[GUNFIRE]
547
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,560
I carried a wreath at Bobby's
funeral, behind the coffin.
548
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,240
Bobby was just my daddy's friend.
549
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:14,989
I can remember Bobby's family.
550
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,280
Bobby's son.
551
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,429
Heartbreaking.
552
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,440
Heartbreaking seeing
them standing at the grave.
553
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:31,389
Did you ever think when you saw that
that you would be in that position?
554
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,960
No, never.
555
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,949
It was Friday night and my mummy
got us before we went to bed.
556
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,629
Just got us, me and Joseph
together and told us.
557
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,549
Explained to us
what was happening.
558
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,629
That my daddy was going
on hunger strike the next day.
559
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,509
We got up the next day
and the cameras were all
560
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,909
outside the front door.
561
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:08,509
My husband could die.
562
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,469
I know he could die.
563
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,789
And if my husband did die,
I would still... I will continue
564
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,680
and fight until every man,
every Irish man is free.
565
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:28,080
I'm young, I want my husband,
and my children need their father.
566
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,480
We got to see my daddy
on hunger strike.
567
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,989
That was the first time
in four and a half years.
568
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,309
So to see your daddy
after four and a half years,
569
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,720
it was very special.
Very special.
570
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,080
I can remember just seeing him
standing there.
571
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,520
He was gorgeous. He was lovely.
He was just my daddy.
572
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,949
To me that day,
he was Joe McDonnell, my daddy.
573
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,829
He wasn't Joe McDonnell,
hunger striker.
574
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,869
He put us on his knee,
he let us sit on his knee.
575
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,949
And I remember my aunt saying,
"Get off your knee,
576
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,629
"get off your daddy's knee."
577
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,320
He says, "I'll hold them here
as long as I can."
578
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,480
It was really, really lovely.
579
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,669
A week later,
Frank Hughes is dead.
580
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,560
[BIN LIDS RATTLE]
581
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,869
I would just like to say
that Margaret Thatcher,
582
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,509
the British government,
has murdered my brother.
583
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,000
Francis' blood
is on Margaret Thatcher's hands.
584
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,629
Thatcher was as static as ever.
585
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,389
"Fuck them. Let them die.
Bring it on."
586
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,189
It's a tragedy that young men
should be persuaded, coerced
587
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,360
or ordered to starve themselves
to death for a futile cause.
588
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,109
It would seem that dead hunger
strikers who have extinguished
589
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:10,789
their own lives are of more
use to the Provisional IRA
590
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,560
than living members.
591
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:20,589
Two weeks after that, we had
the deaths of Raymond McCreesh
592
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,400
and Patsy O'Hara.
593
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,309
So there was four hunger
strikers dead.
594
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,200
So you had this sort of cycle
of death.
595
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,749
There was quite a lot of murders
during the hunger strike.
596
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,309
Another policeman,
another soldier.
597
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,989
Johnnie had been on the police
for about a year.
598
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,600
We were scared.
599
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,069
[NEWSREEL]: The bomb went off
and the policeman who died
600
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,069
was 23-year-old Kenneth Atchison,
who lived with his wife
601
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,349
and baby son in Armagh.
602
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:09,789
The IRA have always viewed
the RUC as legitimate targets.
603
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,669
They've always viewed them
as the defenders of the state.
604
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,909
This was Constable Robinson's
local pub.
605
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,989
The gunmen were obviously aware
of his movements and were waiting
606
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,589
for him to leave.
607
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,309
And did the IRA make a distinction
between good cops and bad cops?
608
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,229
No such thing.
609
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:31,480
As far as the IRA was concerned,
they were all bad cops.
610
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:39,189
Did you ever consider that police
officers have families?
611
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,349
No. It is never the individual.
The IRA attacked the uniform.
612
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,469
They didn't attack Henry Jones
or Bertie Smith.
613
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,720
They attacked the uniform.
614
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,469
In our village, there had been
a young man going home from work
615
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:04,509
on the main road when another car
came up behind him
616
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,669
and tried to shoot him.
617
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,909
Only the gun jammed
and the magazine fell out.
618
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,229
Then that heightened
the whole security thing.
619
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:16,149
You were just... You knew
this had come home.
620
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,149
This had touched our village.
621
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,800
You know, the Troubles had come
to sleepy Upperlands.
622
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,829
You'd have been going shopping
and watching,
623
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,760
was there anyone following you,
or was there a car sitting about?
624
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,829
When you had someone in
the security forces in your family,
625
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,629
that was your way of life.
626
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,789
Constantly living the fear
of not knowing
627
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,200
when it would be your turn.
628
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,509
Every time you turned the TV on,
somebody was dead.
629
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,829
Six IRA men were killed, there were
13 paratroopers were killed.
630
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:56,920
Another policeman was killed.
631
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,480
Just so much killing in this place,
and it's becoming so normal.
632
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,600
But we were a very dysfunctional
and broken society.
633
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:11,349
I don't think Berna...
634
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,149
Bernadette didn't handle
the whole thing well at all.
635
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,229
Bernadette came up on a visit.
636
00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:19,709
And all I talked about the whole
visit was the hunger strike,
637
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:20,960
and she snapped.
638
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:26,949
And she says, "I don't...
I don't give a fuck about you.
639
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,509
"I don't give a fuck
about your hunger strike."
640
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,189
I was so angry. So angry.
641
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:36,949
I didn't want to go up there
and listen about the so-called war.
642
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,269
I think at that stage, they must've
thought I was having the breakdown,
643
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,509
because they sent somebody up
to the house.
644
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:45,549
This was after a visit.
645
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,469
And I said, "Fuck you
and fuck the IRA.
646
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,709
"Fuck Maggie Thatcher
and fuck Richard O'Rawe."
647
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:54,589
So it wasn't a good place.
648
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,280
It wasn't a good place.
649
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:07,200
We were going up to see our daddy.
650
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,440
And because he was on hunger strike
then, we got to see him more.
651
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,789
Two fellas in America had decided
that they were going to try
652
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,989
and take kids out of the conflict
from both sides
653
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,789
over to America to give them
a break during the summer.
654
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,069
And Joseph decided
he wasn't going.
655
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,149
So I says I wasn't going.
656
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,709
My daddy says to me,
"Please go. Go, love."
657
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:38,549
He says,
"Go there and tell everybody.
658
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,829
"Tell everybody
what's happening here."
659
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,400
So I did. I just wanted
to make him proud.
660
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,189
[ARCHIVE REEL]: Over 700 children
from both sides of the divide
661
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,949
are flying to America
to holiday together.
662
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,709
I'm going to Upper State New York.
New York.
663
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:57,669
What are you going to do
out in the States?
664
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,549
- Play football.
- Get a girl!
665
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,389
Well, we're here on Flight E435,
666
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,120
and it's just a few minutes
before take-off.
667
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,829
It was difficult
because I was leaving my daddy.
668
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,440
I was leaving my mummy and
Joseph, but I knew I had to do it.
669
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,360
I went on TV. I went on the radio.
670
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:21,880
Papers, anything just to try
and keep my daddy alive.
671
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,669
[ARCHIVE REEL]: I was out playing on
the swing,
672
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:30,989
and I heard five big shots
going off,
673
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,229
and you'd think the sky
was just coming in on you.
674
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:37,749
Now, your dad, I think we should
say your dad is in prison, right?
675
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,749
- Yes. - And he's also one of the
hunger strikers, isn't he? - Yes.
676
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,029
Can anybody help the situation,
do you think, in Northern Ireland?
677
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:50,549
Well, if the people of America
would write to President Reagan,
678
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:55,549
he might phone Mrs Thatcher
and then the pressure
679
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,640
would be put on Mrs Thatcher
and she will have to do something.
680
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:08,869
Unbelievable, isn't it, like,
for a ten-year-old?
681
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,149
You know, we had to let
the world know.
682
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,269
You felt that responsibility?
Yes, I did feel that responsibility,
683
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,349
yeah.
684
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,309
[ARCHIVE REEL]: Ten-year-old
Bernadette McDonnell is visiting
685
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:20,789
a Long Island, New York family.
686
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,149
Her father, Joseph McDonnell,
is seven weeks into a hunger strike
687
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,669
in Maze prison.
He's fighting for his country.
688
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,629
When you saw him last Saturday,
how was he?
689
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:36,149
Well, his teeth
was starting to stick out.
690
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,389
And he was spitting up water.
691
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:40,749
Is he?
692
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,349
And every day, Bernadette
awaits her aunt's telephone calls
693
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:45,909
on her father's condition.
694
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,789
She knows she'll lose him,
but she says the struggle
695
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:52,789
to get the British out
of Northern Ireland will go on.
696
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,480
We'll just go on doing what we've
been doing.
697
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,400
Helping on the streets and watching.
698
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:06,920
I can't remember that one.
699
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:10,960
That was a wee bit more...
700
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,189
...harder to watch that one.
701
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:20,520
- Why?
- Erm, I seen a child holding back.
702
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:23,469
Holding back in crying.
703
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:29,109
Holding back in maybe
just wanting to run home.
704
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,720
Maybe just...
Just holding back.
705
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,229
Well, tonight, the man with most
at stake is the hunger striker
706
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:44,349
Joe McDonnell, now about to enter
his 61st day without food.
707
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,520
He's said to be very weak,
and his family are at his bedside.
708
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,909
I can remember getting phone calls.
709
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,120
I knew my daddy wasn't good.
710
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,829
I just knew by the phone calls.
711
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:59,160
And I wanted home.
712
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,309
And my aunt came and got me
from the airport.
713
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,389
And we were coming up Kennedy Way
onto Andytown road,
714
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:08,440
and there was a bus burning.
715
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,149
And I says,
"What's the bus burning for?"
716
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,360
And they shouted,
"Joe McDonnell's dead."
717
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,560
So that's how I found out
my daddy was dead.
718
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,640
[BIN LIDS RATTLE]
719
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:34,280
At that time my daddy's body
was home.
720
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:39,229
And I can remember looking at him
and crying.
721
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:40,920
I cried and I cried hard.
722
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:44,120
And that was it, I didn't cry again.
723
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:56,640
I wasn't going to do this.
724
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,800
We just kissed the coffin.
725
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,080
And that was my 11th birthday.
726
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:53,480
My daddy was buried
on my 11th birthday.
727
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:01,629
All I ever wanted
when I was a kid was my daddy.
728
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,640
Just my daddy to be there. I think
any wee girl wants their daddy.
729
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,149
That poor wee girl, I remember
her mummy and I remember
730
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:20,789
what they went through.
731
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,109
You didn't think you were ever
going to come out of it.
732
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,629
You didn't know...
Does anybody want to resolve this?
733
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:27,509
And you were going,
"There's lives here.
734
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,269
"There are lives,
there are men dying.
735
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,680
"Somebody swallow your pride,
do something."
736
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:41,669
The thing was like a juggernaut,
an out-of-control juggernaut.
737
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:45,509
[NEWSREEL]: With six hunger strikers
now dead and two more likely
738
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:46,869
to die within a few days,
739
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,149
the IRA protest,
far from fizzling out
740
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:50,829
as some people thought it might,
741
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,109
seems to be making
a growing impact.
742
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,989
Nobody knew where it was going or
how it was going to end.
743
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:04,680
[SHOUTS AND GUNFIRE]
744
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,549
[NEWSREEL]: Now nine prisoners dead,
the strike has still not ended.
745
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,309
Another IRA man
began refusing food today.
746
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,669
There were violent scenes in Dublin
as a demonstration in support
747
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:19,669
of the hunger strikers
was broken up.
748
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:23,480
By then it was clear
this war could have no winner.
749
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,829
This is where they were planning
to come to live.
750
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,829
It's decorated to perfection.
751
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,149
Oh, they had done very well,
you know,
752
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,949
to have this house finished for
the new baby coming home on Friday.
753
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:57,269
We actually had moved house
and I was papering.
754
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:01,029
I was putting wallpaper on
and I went into early labour.
755
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:05,669
So I went into hospital
on the Thursday morning.
756
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:09,000
And then Johnnie was born
on the Thursday night.
757
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,800
- How was that?
- That was quick!
758
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:17,680
That was quick, when he wasn't due
for another five weeks.
759
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:28,029
On the Saturday night
when I was still in hospital,
760
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:32,640
my friend and neighbour
had been shot dead in the village.
761
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:37,029
And Johnnie had come up to the
hospital that night to tell me.
762
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:38,320
That was a shock.
763
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,189
Alan was security forces as well.
764
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:46,029
So that would be the first night
that it brought it home to him
765
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,960
that he had a target on his back.
766
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,589
Johnnie went to his funeral
and carried his coffin.
767
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,200
Then he came up that night to visit.
768
00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:11,269
I can still recall that day,
that night.
769
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,669
Still recall waiting on Johnnie
coming to the hospital.
770
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,069
It's husbands only at night,
771
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,949
so no-one else
is allowed in to visit.
772
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,749
And he'd come in and we
had sandwiches in the ward.
773
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,869
Somebody had brought sandwiches up,
and we were having tea
774
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,509
and sandwiches,
and we were still chatting.
775
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,389
Then it come that time,
it's time to go home.
776
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:35,629
You know, you can still see yourself
walking down the corridor,
777
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,629
saying goodnight and hurrying
back up the corridor
778
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,349
to the window and then standing
there to wait for his car
779
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:43,629
to come up, which never came.
780
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:45,749
You know, you're standing
at the window
781
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:47,720
and the gunmen's car come up.
782
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,949
I was only in hospital
for five days,
783
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:01,669
and within five days,
784
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,429
the IRA had everything set up,
you know,
785
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,960
for to kill him that night.
786
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:11,440
[GUNSHOTS]
787
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,509
[NEWSREEL]: John Proctor was
the 17th policeman to be killed
788
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,069
in Ulster this year.
789
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,549
But the cold-blooded cruelty
of John Proctor's murder
790
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,589
has left people
shocked and horrified.
791
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,269
He was just getting into the car.
792
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,949
We'd bought a new car
and he was getting into the car,
793
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,069
so it was,
and Johnnie didn't see them.
794
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,709
And they shot him in the back.
In the back.
795
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:38,000
Of all places, in the back.
796
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,000
Our whole families
were just ripped apart.
797
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:49,469
Like, the hunger strikers,
they had a choice on their life,
798
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,389
whether to starve themselves
and give up their life,
799
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:57,149
whereas Johnnie didn't pick that
he wanted to be killed that night
800
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,400
outside the hospital, you know.
801
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:02,960
He got no choice in that.
802
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,269
That night, he wasn't a policeman.
803
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,920
He was a father and a husband
going up to see his newborn son.
804
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:23,229
[ARCHIVE REEL]: The day after the funeral,
805
00:53:23,240 --> 00:53:25,709
June returned to the hospital
where John was killed
806
00:53:25,720 --> 00:53:28,240
to collect the new baby.
807
00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:32,149
Is that our wee baby? Is it?
808
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:35,789
- Coat?
- No, that's not a coat. That's his shawl.
809
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,989
- Shawl? - Shawl. You have to wrap
that round him and keep him warm.
810
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,549
That's to keep him warm.
811
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,829
June had intended to call
the new baby Ryan,
812
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,589
but he'll now be christened John,
after his father.
813
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:50,720
That's your wee brother! Isn't it?
Baby! Baby.
814
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:54,360
Everything changed.
815
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,200
It's going to be a whole new world.
816
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:01,520
Not one we had planned, but...
817
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,040
Two boys and no father.
818
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:20,760
Did you sort of wonder why it
had to be your dad?
819
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:23,880
Not then, no.
820
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:26,720
Afterwards maybe.
821
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,520
I can't imagine a life...
822
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:36,589
...with him being there, because
he wasn't, you know what I mean?
823
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,189
But I can tell you what he missed.
824
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:41,760
Yeah.
825
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,189
He's missed a life with my mummy.
826
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,749
He's missed watching
me and Joseph grow up.
827
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,600
He's missed out on life himself.
828
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,469
But he done it for us.
829
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,949
Done it for his country.
830
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:03,160
I still get people that come
to me and say he was a hero.
831
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,469
How does it make me feel?
832
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,080
Proud. Very proud.
833
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:20,909
Everything about the Troubles
was sad.
834
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,949
Every life that was lost
during the Troubles was sad.
835
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,509
Whether you were a police officer
or a soldier,
836
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,949
a UVF man, an IRA man,
a hunger striker.
837
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:31,829
Every life was precious.
838
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:34,909
And yet life here meant nothing.
839
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,109
So many broken hearts.
840
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:39,640
So many broken hearts
in this country.
841
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,669
I left prison.
Bernadette said to me,
842
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:15,229
"Look, I want you
out of everything."
843
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:17,869
And, erm...
She says, "It's like this here.
844
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,709
"It's either the Republican
movement, or me and your daughter."
845
00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:23,760
So I left the movement.
846
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:29,040
And I think I put her through hell,
and I regret that.
847
00:56:31,720 --> 00:56:33,400
We made it through.
848
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,469
Surprising as it was,
and tough as it was.
849
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,349
We are lucky that we're still alive
and we're still together
850
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:45,600
and we got here, because so many
people from that period of time...
851
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,509
...didn't make it through.
852
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,989
- You're still married.
- Still here!
853
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,189
- You did it.
- Yeah.
854
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,829
- 46.
- 46 years now.
855
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:00,349
46 years married.
856
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,120
46 golden years!
857
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,280
No comment!
858
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,269
[NEWSREEL]: The principal strand
of evidence linking this man,
859
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:38,469
Seamus Martin Kearney,
to the killing was a cigarette butt
860
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,469
found close to the getaway car.
861
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,920
The judge imposed a life sentence.
862
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,120
We were robbed of our justice.
863
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,709
I've had good times.
I've remarried.
864
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,949
I've had more family.
865
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,360
I've grandchildren.
866
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,520
But it's always been there.
867
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:14,160
The hatred is there.
I've lived my life with that.
868
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:17,869
My prayers at night,
I could never say
869
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:20,429
"and forgive those
that trespass against us".
870
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:23,560
I can't say that.
I can't say that in my prayer.
871
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,960
[ARCHIVE REEL]: Do you know who does all this?
872
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:52,749
Our life was living a lie
all of the time.
873
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,309
Did I say something?
Did I slip up?
874
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,109
[EXPLOSIONS]
Jesus!
875
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:58,749
[GUNFIRE]
876
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:01,629
A terrorist is a terrorist
is a terrorist.
877
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:05,469
You've got to remove those people
from society.
878
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,480
One wrong word can lead
to somebody dying.
879
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,520
Loose talk costs lives.
880
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,869
To watch exclusive interviews
about the making of this series,
881
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:24,800
visit...
882
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,680
...and follow the links
to the Open University.
71943
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