All language subtitles for It.Was.Him.The.Many.Murders.of.Ed.Edwards.S01E01.The.Killer.Gene.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP2.0.H.264-NTb.en
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1
00:00:11,206 --> 00:00:13,000
Previously on It Was Him.
2
00:00:13,034 --> 00:00:15,137
Ed Edwards was a
master at deception.
3
00:00:15,172 --> 00:00:16,182
Why I was out there committing
4
00:00:16,206 --> 00:00:18,068
the crime was for
the recognition.
5
00:00:18,103 --> 00:00:19,586
Maybe the whole
reform was a con.
6
00:00:19,620 --> 00:00:20,941
You know, I was
always a schemer.
7
00:00:20,965 --> 00:00:22,275
I've always been into crime.
8
00:00:22,310 --> 00:00:23,275
You are the grandson.
9
00:00:23,310 --> 00:00:25,137
Yep, that was my grandfather.
10
00:00:25,172 --> 00:00:27,068
Unfortunately, he hurt people.
11
00:00:27,103 --> 00:00:28,793
That's not you as
you don't know it.
12
00:00:28,827 --> 00:00:29,793
Part of my journey on this
13
00:00:29,827 --> 00:00:31,068
is this one of those genetic
14
00:00:31,103 --> 00:00:32,148
predispositions I
got from Ed to where
15
00:00:32,172 --> 00:00:33,758
I could go kill
someone right now,
16
00:00:33,793 --> 00:00:35,241
but I don't want to.
17
00:00:35,275 --> 00:00:36,655
Hoffa knew my grandfather.
18
00:00:36,689 --> 00:00:38,000
No doubt about it.
19
00:00:38,034 --> 00:00:39,103
Ed killed Teresa Holbach.
20
00:00:39,137 --> 00:00:40,620
You don't get it both ways.
21
00:00:40,655 --> 00:00:41,665
That's not what I'm saying.
22
00:00:41,689 --> 00:00:43,655
What I'm saying is it's designed
23
00:00:43,689 --> 00:00:44,931
to point to somebody.
24
00:00:44,965 --> 00:00:45,689
Who did it?
25
00:00:45,724 --> 00:00:46,482
I don't know.
26
00:00:46,517 --> 00:00:47,379
Theory isn't enough.
27
00:00:47,413 --> 00:00:48,517
Without the proof
28
00:00:48,551 --> 00:00:51,310
the theory doesn't work.
29
00:00:51,344 --> 00:00:53,310
What we're looking at here are
30
00:00:53,344 --> 00:00:54,551
pictures of your grandfather
31
00:00:54,586 --> 00:00:55,896
from the time he was born
32
00:00:55,931 --> 00:00:57,724
until the time he
was eight years old,
33
00:00:57,758 --> 00:00:59,586
and it's interesting as to
34
00:00:59,620 --> 00:01:02,034
what he writes about this time.
35
00:01:02,068 --> 00:01:04,344
Is this from his book?
36
00:01:04,379 --> 00:01:05,689
Yeah, he placed these pictures
37
00:01:05,724 --> 00:01:07,344
in this book, he says,
38
00:01:07,379 --> 00:01:09,586
"These pictures
eloquently portray
39
00:01:09,620 --> 00:01:11,689
"the making of a young criminal.
40
00:01:11,724 --> 00:01:14,137
"Ed Edwards is
transmuted from a joyous,"
41
00:01:14,172 --> 00:01:16,689
"carefree child into a hostile,"
42
00:01:16,724 --> 00:01:18,655
"psychopathic, potentially"
43
00:01:18,689 --> 00:01:20,344
"dangerous criminal."
44
00:01:20,379 --> 00:01:23,724
I like how he describes himself
45
00:01:23,758 --> 00:01:25,931
as hostile, psychopathic.
46
00:01:28,862 --> 00:01:30,517
What's really ridiculous
47
00:01:30,551 --> 00:01:31,689
is these photos.
48
00:01:31,724 --> 00:01:33,517
These look so close to my
49
00:01:33,551 --> 00:01:34,827
dad's baby photos that I was
50
00:01:34,862 --> 00:01:36,896
looking through with him.
51
00:01:36,931 --> 00:01:37,896
When you read the last sentence
52
00:01:37,931 --> 00:01:39,896
he says, "Edwards, now eight",
53
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"stands stiffly armored against"
54
00:01:42,172 --> 00:01:44,689
"physical and
psychological assault."
55
00:01:44,724 --> 00:01:46,206
That's really what
happened to him
56
00:01:46,241 --> 00:01:48,206
when he was six
years old when he
57
00:01:48,241 --> 00:01:50,310
went into Parmadale
Catholic Orphanage.
58
00:01:50,344 --> 00:01:51,758
He was the smallest boy.
59
00:01:51,793 --> 00:01:53,517
He was physically beaten,
60
00:01:53,551 --> 00:01:55,689
and came out a psychopath
61
00:01:55,724 --> 00:01:57,275
at a very young age.
62
00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,620
Born in '33 Ed's early years
63
00:02:00,655 --> 00:02:02,241
were very traumatic.
64
00:02:02,275 --> 00:02:04,862
His mother went
to prison in 1934
65
00:02:04,896 --> 00:02:07,206
for stealing money
as a housekeeper.
66
00:02:07,241 --> 00:02:09,068
Ed's father was
never in the picture,
67
00:02:09,103 --> 00:02:10,689
and he never knew him.
68
00:02:10,724 --> 00:02:12,551
According to Ed, his mother
69
00:02:12,586 --> 00:02:14,448
made a desperate
plea for attention.
70
00:02:14,482 --> 00:02:16,034
"She got a rifle,"
71
00:02:16,068 --> 00:02:19,413
"and shot herself
in the stomach."
72
00:02:19,448 --> 00:02:20,620
When he was five years old
73
00:02:20,655 --> 00:02:22,172
he watched his
mother kill herself.
74
00:02:22,206 --> 00:02:23,931
Ed hated his mother for that,
75
00:02:23,965 --> 00:02:25,379
and he started killing women
76
00:02:25,413 --> 00:02:27,448
later on in life because of it.
77
00:02:27,482 --> 00:02:28,551
One of his first victims
78
00:02:28,586 --> 00:02:30,034
looked just like his mother
79
00:02:30,068 --> 00:02:32,758
the infamous Black Dahlia.
80
00:02:32,793 --> 00:02:34,758
I believe one of
his last victims
81
00:02:34,793 --> 00:02:36,275
was one of the most famous
82
00:02:36,310 --> 00:02:38,620
mothers-to-be, Laci Peterson.
83
00:02:40,137 --> 00:02:41,379
It is with pleasure that
84
00:02:41,413 --> 00:02:42,965
I come into your home today.
85
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:44,275
I think that you will find
86
00:02:44,310 --> 00:02:46,206
your reward in the end.
87
00:02:47,275 --> 00:02:49,000
This is Ed Edwards.
88
00:03:03,172 --> 00:03:05,172
This is the Catholic orphanage
89
00:03:05,206 --> 00:03:06,379
that Ed went to.
90
00:03:08,206 --> 00:03:10,241
This is 1939,
91
00:03:12,344 --> 00:03:13,424
'40 is when he
would have showed up
92
00:03:13,448 --> 00:03:16,137
here, he would have been seven.
93
00:03:17,206 --> 00:03:18,965
These look like set pieces
94
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:20,275
for a horror film.
95
00:03:20,310 --> 00:03:21,310
Yeah, the orphanage
96
00:03:21,344 --> 00:03:23,655
shut down in the 1980's.
97
00:03:23,689 --> 00:03:24,551
In his book he says
98
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he ran away over 30 times
99
00:03:26,034 --> 00:03:28,137
trying to get away from it,
100
00:03:28,172 --> 00:03:30,103
but he kind of shaped the book
101
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to make it sound like Parmadale
102
00:03:31,862 --> 00:03:34,586
is what shaped him
into be a criminal
103
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because he was so defiant,
104
00:03:35,827 --> 00:03:37,310
and full of rage.
105
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Seeing the words.
106
00:03:39,344 --> 00:03:41,000
Never Give Up
hanging in the window
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00:03:41,034 --> 00:03:43,724
of an orphanage
is so depressing.
108
00:03:45,206 --> 00:03:47,137
Yeah, there it is.
109
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There's the cabin.
110
00:03:48,551 --> 00:03:49,665
He kind of described staying
111
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in a smaller cabin here.
112
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I kind of feel like
113
00:03:54,344 --> 00:03:56,206
they don't use most of this.
114
00:03:56,241 --> 00:03:57,931
"My outstanding memory
115
00:03:57,965 --> 00:03:59,379
"of the Parmadale orphanage
116
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"was the nun who took me in tow.
117
00:04:01,689 --> 00:04:03,793
"She seemed tall and forbidding.
118
00:04:03,827 --> 00:04:05,931
"She was to be my mother?
119
00:04:05,965 --> 00:04:07,896
"How could I hope
to relate to this"
120
00:04:07,931 --> 00:04:09,758
"stark battle"
121
00:04:09,793 --> 00:04:11,034
"I was a little boy"
122
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"who desperately needed love."
123
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Sister Mary Agnes would
124
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punish him with sticks,
125
00:04:15,896 --> 00:04:17,137
and humiliate him
126
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in front of the boys
for his behavior.
127
00:04:19,034 --> 00:04:20,379
It was early 20th Century.
128
00:04:20,413 --> 00:04:22,620
Catholicism at its worst.
129
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Looks like the school building,
130
00:04:24,068 --> 00:04:25,344
and if you look at the cross
131
00:04:25,379 --> 00:04:27,172
the Catholic cross
there it's actually
132
00:04:27,206 --> 00:04:29,413
an adaptation of
the Zodiac sign.
133
00:04:29,448 --> 00:04:33,034
He was here 1939 to 1944?
134
00:04:33,068 --> 00:04:35,206
Yeah, man.
135
00:04:35,241 --> 00:04:36,862
Learned right away
136
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"that if you were
unfortunate enough
137
00:04:38,586 --> 00:04:39,965
"to be a bed-wetter,
138
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,862
"you were in serious trouble.
139
00:04:42,896 --> 00:04:44,896
"They made me pick up all of my"
140
00:04:44,931 --> 00:04:46,379
"wet bedding in the morning,"
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00:04:46,413 --> 00:04:47,896
"put on a pair of
swimming trunks,"
142
00:04:47,931 --> 00:04:50,482
"and stand under a cold shower."
143
00:04:52,758 --> 00:04:53,896
This is the area that
144
00:04:53,931 --> 00:04:55,344
he was tied to a tree,
145
00:04:55,379 --> 00:04:57,275
and the kids were given turns
146
00:04:57,310 --> 00:04:58,793
to kick him in the ass.
147
00:04:58,827 --> 00:05:00,310
Wow.
148
00:05:00,344 --> 00:05:01,344
Maybe that's why he liked
149
00:05:01,379 --> 00:05:02,517
to walk some of his victims
150
00:05:02,551 --> 00:05:04,044
into the forest when
you think about it.
151
00:05:04,068 --> 00:05:05,965
"I must have been kicked
152
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,275
"some 200 times that day."
153
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"She was going to break me of"
154
00:05:10,482 --> 00:05:12,655
"my bed-wetting, she warned,"
155
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"or kill me in the process."
156
00:05:16,310 --> 00:05:17,310
You know, John,
157
00:05:17,344 --> 00:05:18,655
if anyone can become a monster
158
00:05:18,689 --> 00:05:20,137
I could definitely
see it starting
159
00:05:20,172 --> 00:05:21,448
in a place like this.
160
00:05:21,482 --> 00:05:23,344
I'm thinking this was where
161
00:05:23,379 --> 00:05:26,689
he developed his
hatred for everything.
162
00:05:28,482 --> 00:05:30,620
The metamorphosis of a criminal.
163
00:05:30,655 --> 00:05:31,896
Well, the metamorphosis this is
164
00:05:31,931 --> 00:05:34,241
certainly the cocoon right here.
165
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This place is giving me
166
00:05:35,517 --> 00:05:37,724
the serious heebie-jeebies.
167
00:05:37,758 --> 00:05:38,931
What was the terms
168
00:05:38,965 --> 00:05:40,379
of him leaving
like what happened?
169
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They got sick
170
00:05:42,034 --> 00:05:43,586
of him running away.
171
00:05:43,620 --> 00:05:45,241
About 1944
172
00:05:45,275 --> 00:05:47,310
he was returned to grandma.
173
00:05:49,448 --> 00:05:51,758
Sister Agnes Marie asked him
174
00:05:51,793 --> 00:05:54,275
what are you gonna
be when you grow up?
175
00:05:54,310 --> 00:05:55,758
He said, "I'm gonna be a crook",
176
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"and I'm gonna be a good one."
177
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That's kind of what he did.
178
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Laci was eight month's
179
00:06:10,896 --> 00:06:12,389
pregnant with a boy
when she disappeared
180
00:06:12,413 --> 00:06:14,068
Christmas Eve and over the past
181
00:06:14,103 --> 00:06:15,482
three months Modesto Police have
182
00:06:15,517 --> 00:06:17,034
searched the same
Richmond coastline
183
00:06:17,068 --> 00:06:18,551
where the body is washed ashore
184
00:06:18,586 --> 00:06:20,034
looking for Laci
after her husband,
185
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Scott, said he had gone fishing
186
00:06:21,586 --> 00:06:22,965
from the nearby Brooklyn Marina
187
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the day his wife disappeared.
188
00:06:24,586 --> 00:06:25,448
The coroner is now
189
00:06:25,482 --> 00:06:28,482
bringing in an outside expert.
190
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The body was found
191
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not too from where
the Zodiac killed,
192
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and the body was mutilated.
193
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Wow, this is quite the view.
194
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Yeah, this is.
195
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Point Isabel Regional
Shoreline Park.
196
00:06:37,724 --> 00:06:39,931
Laci Peterson and
Conner Peterson
197
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were found on the shoreline.
198
00:06:41,724 --> 00:06:43,482
Conner was the unborn child?
199
00:06:43,517 --> 00:06:46,034
Yeah, Conner was found first
200
00:06:46,068 --> 00:06:48,827
on Palm Sunday,
April 13th, 2003.
201
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His body was found just around
202
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this corner up here.
203
00:06:54,482 --> 00:06:55,551
What they assumed is that
204
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he been in the Bay,
205
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and then washed up on shore.
206
00:07:00,137 --> 00:07:01,620
How would anyone
207
00:07:01,655 --> 00:07:03,517
be able to dictate the child
208
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washing up on Palm Sunday?
209
00:07:05,551 --> 00:07:07,379
Well, it would be as simple
210
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as pulling in here,
211
00:07:08,344 --> 00:07:09,103
and planting the body
212
00:07:09,137 --> 00:07:10,068
along the shoreline.
213
00:07:10,103 --> 00:07:10,896
He wasn't in the Bay.
214
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He didn't wash up.
215
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There was some real problem
216
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with the decomposition
of Conner.
217
00:07:18,448 --> 00:07:19,793
It did not appear he had been
218
00:07:19,827 --> 00:07:21,137
in the Bay for the period of
219
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you're talking five months.
220
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Okay.
221
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The same with Laci
222
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because they were in the water
223
00:07:28,310 --> 00:07:30,034
for the period of time that they
224
00:07:30,068 --> 00:07:32,793
are saying from
Christmas Eve until.
225
00:07:32,827 --> 00:07:35,344
Easter the following year they
226
00:07:35,379 --> 00:07:38,448
would have been much
more decomposed.
227
00:07:39,724 --> 00:07:41,310
If Scott Peterson
dumped the bodies
228
00:07:41,344 --> 00:07:43,206
like people thought he did
229
00:07:43,241 --> 00:07:44,655
he would have had to hid them
230
00:07:44,689 --> 00:07:46,275
from Christmas of 2002
231
00:07:46,310 --> 00:07:48,000
until Easter of 2003.
232
00:07:48,965 --> 00:07:50,241
It just doesn't make sense
233
00:07:50,275 --> 00:07:51,620
that he would dump the bodies
234
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in a place that would
lead right to him.
235
00:08:04,758 --> 00:08:06,448
I believe that Ed Edwards
236
00:08:06,482 --> 00:08:08,275
framed Scott Peterson.
237
00:08:09,655 --> 00:08:12,379
Laci was a brunette
much like Ed's wife,
238
00:08:12,413 --> 00:08:13,517
and his mother.
239
00:08:15,586 --> 00:08:17,310
After Scott's arrest is when
240
00:08:17,344 --> 00:08:18,689
the letters started to arrive
241
00:08:18,724 --> 00:08:19,793
to The Modesto Bee.
242
00:08:19,827 --> 00:08:21,620
The Zodiac sent letters
243
00:08:21,655 --> 00:08:23,275
to The Modesto Bee also.
244
00:08:23,310 --> 00:08:24,827
In one of those
letters he claimed
245
00:08:24,862 --> 00:08:26,482
to be God and he claimed
246
00:08:26,517 --> 00:08:28,034
he had framed Scott.
247
00:08:28,068 --> 00:08:29,724
The one letter was
block lettering
248
00:08:29,758 --> 00:08:31,517
like the Zodiac would do.
249
00:08:31,551 --> 00:08:34,448
It arrived on May 4th, 2003.
250
00:08:34,482 --> 00:08:36,517
"On the 12th day
251
00:08:36,551 --> 00:08:39,275
"of the 12th month Cary Stayner
252
00:08:39,310 --> 00:08:41,896
"was sentenced to
death by a jury of 12
253
00:08:41,931 --> 00:08:43,551
"led by Juror ♪12."
254
00:08:44,379 --> 00:08:45,482
"12 days later,."
255
00:08:45,517 --> 00:08:48,000
"Laci and Conner were killed."
256
00:08:49,724 --> 00:08:51,137
"Both were found following"
257
00:08:51,172 --> 00:08:53,482
"the storm on the 12th."
258
00:08:53,517 --> 00:08:54,655
When it comes to
259
00:08:54,689 --> 00:08:55,931
the correlation of the Zodiac
260
00:08:55,965 --> 00:08:58,000
like what else is
there because I mean?
261
00:08:58,034 --> 00:08:59,586
What's clearly obvious
262
00:08:59,620 --> 00:09:01,620
is the location of
the bodies are found
263
00:09:01,655 --> 00:09:03,034
overlooks San Francisco
264
00:09:03,068 --> 00:09:05,000
the heart of the Zodiac.
265
00:09:05,034 --> 00:09:06,620
You got the letters
to the press.
266
00:09:06,655 --> 00:09:08,068
You got the ritualistic nature
267
00:09:08,103 --> 00:09:09,586
of the murder occurring
268
00:09:09,620 --> 00:09:10,827
on Christmas Eve.
269
00:09:10,862 --> 00:09:11,724
You got the planting
270
00:09:11,758 --> 00:09:13,689
of the bodies on Palm Sunday.
271
00:09:13,724 --> 00:09:15,586
It's another example
of murder mimicry.
272
00:09:15,620 --> 00:09:17,689
So Ed would have been 69?
273
00:09:17,724 --> 00:09:20,586
He would have been 69 that year.
274
00:09:20,620 --> 00:09:22,413
Where were they living?
275
00:09:22,448 --> 00:09:23,758
At age 69 he had been
276
00:09:23,793 --> 00:09:25,827
in Arizona, he had been in Ohio,
277
00:09:25,862 --> 00:09:27,172
you know, it's hard to say
278
00:09:27,206 --> 00:09:28,689
exactly where the man lived.
279
00:09:28,724 --> 00:09:30,034
In order for us to be able
280
00:09:30,068 --> 00:09:31,206
to attribute it to Ed
281
00:09:31,241 --> 00:09:33,137
we need obviously more.
282
00:09:34,724 --> 00:09:37,068
I can get behind a
lot of the theories.
283
00:09:37,103 --> 00:09:37,896
In fact, some of them I think
284
00:09:37,931 --> 00:09:39,724
are rock solid.
285
00:09:39,758 --> 00:09:41,586
Over a two-year span
286
00:09:41,620 --> 00:09:44,517
26 children were
murdered in Atlanta.
287
00:09:44,551 --> 00:09:45,275
All the victims were
288
00:09:45,310 --> 00:09:46,551
lured to their deaths
289
00:09:46,586 --> 00:09:48,034
by someone wearing
a uniform like
290
00:09:48,068 --> 00:09:49,931
the Marietta Police
uniform found
291
00:09:49,965 --> 00:09:52,862
in Ed's burned
down house in 1982.
292
00:09:52,896 --> 00:09:54,586
I believe Ed Edwards has to be
293
00:09:54,620 --> 00:09:56,206
the Atlanta Child Killer.
294
00:09:56,241 --> 00:09:57,758
I also believe that Edwards
295
00:09:57,793 --> 00:09:58,758
is responsible for
296
00:09:58,793 --> 00:10:00,724
the Robison Family murders.
297
00:10:00,758 --> 00:10:02,275
Early in Ed's book he introduces
298
00:10:02,310 --> 00:10:03,586
the terrible details
299
00:10:03,620 --> 00:10:05,586
the killing of the
Robison family.
300
00:10:05,620 --> 00:10:07,275
"He sat down at
their dinner table,"
301
00:10:07,310 --> 00:10:08,724
"ate dinner, and then jumped up,"
302
00:10:08,758 --> 00:10:11,896
"and killed everyone of them."
303
00:10:11,931 --> 00:10:13,620
This was the Zodiac
composite done
304
00:10:13,655 --> 00:10:15,448
by the surviving male victim.
305
00:10:15,482 --> 00:10:18,689
Practically everything
matched Ed Edwards.
306
00:10:18,724 --> 00:10:20,896
He was 36 years old in 1969.
307
00:10:22,344 --> 00:10:24,689
He was five foot eight
to five foot nine.
308
00:10:24,724 --> 00:10:25,551
He was stocky.
309
00:10:25,586 --> 00:10:27,448
The Zodiac said that he had
310
00:10:27,482 --> 00:10:28,689
been in Deer Lodge Prison,
311
00:10:28,724 --> 00:10:30,586
and Ed actually got sentenced
312
00:10:30,620 --> 00:10:32,551
to 10 years in
Deer Lodge Prison.
313
00:10:32,586 --> 00:10:34,206
Everything that the Zodiac said
314
00:10:34,241 --> 00:10:36,000
matched what Ed
Edwards had done.
315
00:10:36,034 --> 00:10:38,586
Ed Edwards is the Zodiac killer.
316
00:10:40,620 --> 00:10:42,034
This is one of those theories
317
00:10:42,068 --> 00:10:43,793
where I kind of feel
like I'm the dude
318
00:10:43,827 --> 00:10:47,206
walking around with
the crazy person.
319
00:10:47,241 --> 00:10:48,551
So we're on the way to Modesto,
320
00:10:48,586 --> 00:10:50,551
and that's where
Laci Peterson lives,
321
00:10:50,586 --> 00:10:51,907
but kind of an
interesting sidenote
322
00:10:51,931 --> 00:10:55,000
is here we are at
the California 132.
323
00:10:56,103 --> 00:10:58,724
This is a very important
Zodiac highway.
324
00:10:58,758 --> 00:11:01,793
The last known Zodiac attack
325
00:11:01,827 --> 00:11:02,758
was on a woman named
326
00:11:02,793 --> 00:11:04,758
Kathleen Jones from Modesto.
327
00:11:04,793 --> 00:11:07,655
She was a 22-year-old
pregnant woman.
328
00:11:07,689 --> 00:11:09,827
She had a child in
the car with her.
329
00:11:09,862 --> 00:11:11,620
She's driving down
the highway here,
330
00:11:11,655 --> 00:11:13,620
and a man pulls up in a car
331
00:11:13,655 --> 00:11:15,793
kind of flags her over
332
00:11:15,827 --> 00:11:17,275
trying to get her to pull over,
333
00:11:17,310 --> 00:11:19,241
and the man comes up to the car,
334
00:11:19,275 --> 00:11:20,700
and says, "Your
back wheel is loose",
335
00:11:20,724 --> 00:11:21,758
"but I'll fix it."
336
00:11:21,793 --> 00:11:24,241
There was no loose wheel.
337
00:11:24,275 --> 00:11:25,586
He loosened the lug nuts.
338
00:11:25,620 --> 00:11:26,586
As she drives away
339
00:11:26,620 --> 00:11:27,660
the wheels start wobbling.
340
00:11:27,689 --> 00:11:30,482
At that point the
man offers to give
341
00:11:30,517 --> 00:11:32,758
her a ride to the
nearest service station.
342
00:11:32,793 --> 00:11:35,482
As they pass the
first gas station
343
00:11:35,517 --> 00:11:38,586
he starts terrorizing
her to the point
344
00:11:38,620 --> 00:11:42,137
where she finally
bails out of the car.
345
00:11:42,172 --> 00:11:43,620
With the baby.
346
00:11:43,655 --> 00:11:46,689
With the baby screaming.
347
00:11:46,724 --> 00:11:48,724
As she goes into
the police station
348
00:11:48,758 --> 00:11:49,724
to tell the police her story
349
00:11:49,758 --> 00:11:50,862
there's a poster,
350
00:11:50,896 --> 00:11:52,793
and she points at
the poster, and says,
351
00:11:52,827 --> 00:11:56,068
"That's the man right there."
352
00:11:56,103 --> 00:11:57,758
That was the last known.
353
00:11:57,793 --> 00:11:59,862
Zodiac attack in this area.
354
00:12:02,206 --> 00:12:04,379
"This is the Zodiac speaking.
355
00:12:04,413 --> 00:12:06,586
"I am rather unhappy
because you people
356
00:12:06,620 --> 00:12:09,517
"will not wear some
nice Zodiac buttons,"
357
00:12:09,551 --> 00:12:11,896
"so I now have a
little list starting"
358
00:12:11,931 --> 00:12:13,689
"with the woman
and her baby that"
359
00:12:13,724 --> 00:12:16,931
"I gave a rather
interesting ride to."
360
00:12:18,758 --> 00:12:20,586
He came across as a very
361
00:12:20,620 --> 00:12:22,655
concerned helping person,
362
00:12:22,689 --> 00:12:25,275
which is how your
grandfather got
363
00:12:25,310 --> 00:12:27,896
into many of his
victims I believe.
364
00:12:27,931 --> 00:12:30,827
That is extremely creepy.
365
00:12:30,862 --> 00:12:32,448
The fact that it was a pregnant
366
00:12:32,482 --> 00:12:34,931
woman from Modesto,
you know, ties it
367
00:12:34,965 --> 00:12:37,482
right into the
Zodiac possibly being
368
00:12:37,517 --> 00:12:40,620
responsible for Laci Peterson.
369
00:12:40,655 --> 00:12:42,000
He targeted a woman and her baby
370
00:12:42,034 --> 00:12:43,551
just like Laci Peterson,
371
00:12:43,586 --> 00:12:45,275
and her unborn child.
372
00:12:58,103 --> 00:12:58,896
It's good to see you.
373
00:12:58,931 --> 00:13:00,172
Hi, Bill.
374
00:13:00,206 --> 00:13:02,241
I think I know
more about this case
375
00:13:02,275 --> 00:13:03,931
then practically anybody else.
376
00:13:03,965 --> 00:13:05,482
I was retained on the case
377
00:13:05,517 --> 00:13:09,103
after the bodies had
already surfaced.
378
00:13:09,137 --> 00:13:12,000
The cops immediately
basically told
379
00:13:13,793 --> 00:13:16,103
Scott we know you killed her.
380
00:13:16,137 --> 00:13:17,413
We're gonna get you.
381
00:13:17,448 --> 00:13:20,551
They dogged him
everywhere he went.
382
00:13:20,586 --> 00:13:21,931
I felt that he was
383
00:13:21,965 --> 00:13:24,793
absolutely being framed,
384
00:13:24,827 --> 00:13:26,758
and they made a
scapegoat out of him.
385
00:13:26,793 --> 00:13:28,379
There was a burglary
right across
386
00:13:28,413 --> 00:13:31,068
the street from
where Laci lived,
387
00:13:32,862 --> 00:13:34,931
and a brown van
was involved in it.
388
00:13:34,965 --> 00:13:36,448
There's blood
stains, or at least
389
00:13:36,482 --> 00:13:38,034
what looks like blood stains,
390
00:13:38,068 --> 00:13:39,931
and the cops just
wouldn't touch it.
391
00:13:39,965 --> 00:13:41,931
Can you tell me what you found
392
00:13:41,965 --> 00:13:44,413
strange about anything regarding
393
00:13:44,448 --> 00:13:46,103
the finding of the bodies?
394
00:13:46,137 --> 00:13:48,310
She was completely decomposed.
395
00:13:48,344 --> 00:13:50,448
The baby was also decomposed,
396
00:13:50,482 --> 00:13:51,802
but it had some
kind of funny tape
397
00:13:51,827 --> 00:13:53,379
around the baby,
398
00:13:53,413 --> 00:13:56,310
and this is where people started
399
00:13:56,344 --> 00:13:58,413
talking about Satanic murders.
400
00:13:58,448 --> 00:14:00,206
It had the plausibility.
401
00:14:00,241 --> 00:14:01,793
It still has to this day.
402
00:14:01,827 --> 00:14:03,551
So, Bill, everything
I've heard you
403
00:14:03,586 --> 00:14:06,034
talk about regarding
Scott Peterson
404
00:14:06,068 --> 00:14:08,448
fits a lot of the
M.O. of the killer
405
00:14:08,482 --> 00:14:09,448
that I've investigated
406
00:14:09,482 --> 00:14:10,862
the last six years.
407
00:14:10,896 --> 00:14:12,689
The M.O. of Ed
Edwards was usually
408
00:14:12,724 --> 00:14:14,655
to steer the
evidence to the press
409
00:14:14,689 --> 00:14:16,379
through anonymous letters,
410
00:14:16,413 --> 00:14:17,896
and to target someone
411
00:14:17,931 --> 00:14:19,724
innocent, to begin with.
412
00:14:19,758 --> 00:14:21,551
You'd have to
either target Laci,
413
00:14:21,586 --> 00:14:24,379
or you would have
to target Scott.
414
00:14:25,344 --> 00:14:26,206
It's doubtful that
415
00:14:26,241 --> 00:14:27,482
you would be targeting both.
416
00:14:27,517 --> 00:14:28,620
He would have probably
417
00:14:28,655 --> 00:14:30,551
started targeting, well,
418
00:14:30,586 --> 00:14:32,034
he needed a pregnant
woman for that
419
00:14:32,068 --> 00:14:33,689
would be my theory.
420
00:14:33,724 --> 00:14:34,872
He was kind of a ritual killer,
421
00:14:34,896 --> 00:14:35,907
and now he's
steering the evidence
422
00:14:35,931 --> 00:14:37,620
to maybe it was the occult,
423
00:14:37,655 --> 00:14:38,862
or maybe it was Satanist
424
00:14:38,896 --> 00:14:40,793
when, in fact, it
was probably just him
425
00:14:40,827 --> 00:14:42,482
steering the evidence
426
00:14:44,034 --> 00:14:45,206
to make it look
427
00:14:45,241 --> 00:14:46,724
like the occult was involved.
428
00:14:46,758 --> 00:14:48,148
You know, there's
been six or eight
429
00:14:48,172 --> 00:14:50,275
other women within the vicinity
430
00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:53,517
were also missing,
and presumed dead.
431
00:14:53,551 --> 00:14:54,862
They haven't been discovered.
432
00:14:54,896 --> 00:14:56,689
One interesting one was
433
00:14:56,724 --> 00:14:57,827
there was a murder
434
00:14:57,862 --> 00:14:59,517
of a pregnant woman
in San Francisco.
435
00:14:59,551 --> 00:15:00,931
Evelyn Hernandez.
436
00:15:00,965 --> 00:15:02,931
Evelyn Hernandez,
this woman was also
437
00:15:02,965 --> 00:15:05,241
kidnapped and her
remains were found.
438
00:15:05,275 --> 00:15:06,931
This happened only like about
439
00:15:06,965 --> 00:15:08,620
eight months before Laci.
440
00:15:08,655 --> 00:15:10,793
Do you have any
feelings about that?
441
00:15:10,827 --> 00:15:13,068
She is just a pregnant female
442
00:15:13,103 --> 00:15:15,931
who ends up in the
Bay and what I saw
443
00:15:15,965 --> 00:15:16,931
the difference
there she didn't get
444
00:15:16,965 --> 00:15:19,551
the recognition that Laci got.
445
00:15:19,586 --> 00:15:20,931
Evelyn got killed,
446
00:15:20,965 --> 00:15:22,275
but it wasn't all
over the press.
447
00:15:22,310 --> 00:15:23,206
Let's face it.
448
00:15:23,241 --> 00:15:24,758
She was a Hispanic immigrant.
449
00:15:24,793 --> 00:15:25,896
Right.
450
00:15:25,931 --> 00:15:26,976
I don't think she
got her publicity
451
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:27,931
until after Laci Peterson,
452
00:15:27,965 --> 00:15:29,079
and I think we were the ones
453
00:15:29,103 --> 00:15:30,413
that brought that in.
454
00:15:30,448 --> 00:15:32,413
What is the deal
with the targeting
455
00:15:32,448 --> 00:15:33,344
of the pregnant women?
456
00:15:33,379 --> 00:15:34,689
All of them are unsolved,
457
00:15:34,724 --> 00:15:37,068
and that is a
little bit unusual.
458
00:15:37,103 --> 00:15:38,551
It's infrequent,
459
00:15:39,793 --> 00:15:40,724
but it's all in the same area
460
00:15:40,758 --> 00:15:41,965
for six of them.
461
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,379
We were kind of
looking at all of them,
462
00:15:44,413 --> 00:15:46,034
but we just didn't
have the time.
463
00:15:46,068 --> 00:15:47,551
We didn't have the resources.
464
00:15:47,586 --> 00:15:49,206
Everything that
we've talked about
465
00:15:49,241 --> 00:15:51,275
right now fits right
into the profile.
466
00:15:51,310 --> 00:15:52,931
It's interesting to link
467
00:15:52,965 --> 00:15:54,965
a pregnancy with Ed, I mean,
468
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:56,689
Ed was a sexual predator.
469
00:15:56,724 --> 00:15:58,103
For some reason
the pregnancy thing
470
00:15:58,137 --> 00:16:00,103
it kind of acts like
a trigger for me.
471
00:16:00,137 --> 00:16:01,034
I feel like
472
00:16:01,068 --> 00:16:03,551
there might be something here.
473
00:16:28,517 --> 00:16:31,862
So we're, basically,
at the warehouse.
474
00:16:31,896 --> 00:16:34,965
He was, you know,
pretty successful
475
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:36,172
in his business.
476
00:16:36,206 --> 00:16:37,965
He had offices,
477
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,586
and expensive equipment.
478
00:16:39,620 --> 00:16:41,827
There was also a 55-gallon
479
00:16:43,034 --> 00:16:44,310
plastic barrel.
480
00:16:45,379 --> 00:16:47,034
Yeah, I kind of remember that.
481
00:16:47,068 --> 00:16:48,068
You remember that?
482
00:16:49,068 --> 00:16:50,068
Some people thought that
483
00:16:50,103 --> 00:16:51,827
she was dumped in
the water, Laci.
484
00:16:51,862 --> 00:16:52,862
And maybe she was
485
00:16:52,896 --> 00:16:54,137
stored in one of those.
486
00:16:54,172 --> 00:16:56,827
She was stored
before pulled out.
487
00:16:56,862 --> 00:16:58,068
But there was never
488
00:16:58,103 --> 00:16:59,448
any evidence that Laci
489
00:16:59,482 --> 00:17:01,034
was killed here or?
490
00:17:01,068 --> 00:17:02,862
No.
491
00:17:02,896 --> 00:17:04,010
The one thing that
sticks out to me
492
00:17:04,034 --> 00:17:05,389
if this man was a
fertilizer salesman,
493
00:17:05,413 --> 00:17:06,896
and he had access to a lot of it
494
00:17:06,931 --> 00:17:08,896
you would think that
that would be a way
495
00:17:08,931 --> 00:17:11,034
if he was the killer, in fact,
496
00:17:11,068 --> 00:17:12,217
he would utilize that to help
497
00:17:12,241 --> 00:17:15,034
get rid of a body,
like you know,
498
00:17:15,068 --> 00:17:16,148
putting her in a huge thing
499
00:17:16,172 --> 00:17:17,424
of fertilizer
wouldn't that kind of
500
00:17:17,448 --> 00:17:18,862
help with decomposition?
501
00:17:18,896 --> 00:17:20,931
The bottom line
is he didn't do it.
502
00:17:20,965 --> 00:17:22,620
He was convicted on the basis of
503
00:17:22,655 --> 00:17:24,758
where the body was located,
504
00:17:24,793 --> 00:17:26,034
and that was it.
505
00:17:26,068 --> 00:17:27,862
That he had been fishing there.
506
00:17:27,896 --> 00:17:28,941
That he's been fishing there.
507
00:17:28,965 --> 00:17:31,482
The whole thing is preposterous.
508
00:17:31,517 --> 00:17:33,517
You know, one thing that is
509
00:17:33,551 --> 00:17:34,827
coming to mind because we keep
510
00:17:34,862 --> 00:17:35,907
talking about the
pregnant women,
511
00:17:35,931 --> 00:17:37,148
you know, talking
about Great Falls
512
00:17:37,172 --> 00:17:38,896
the double homicide
that was there
513
00:17:38,931 --> 00:17:41,551
that was in January,
right, of '56?
514
00:17:41,586 --> 00:17:42,482
Yep.
515
00:17:42,517 --> 00:17:43,758
My dad was born in August,
516
00:17:43,793 --> 00:17:45,551
and I couldn't help
but think about,
517
00:17:45,586 --> 00:17:47,068
you know, what state of mind
518
00:17:47,103 --> 00:17:49,034
my grandfather would
be in if he did,
519
00:17:49,068 --> 00:17:50,344
in fact, kill that couple.
520
00:17:50,379 --> 00:17:52,034
So he would have just found out
521
00:17:52,068 --> 00:17:53,000
that he's gonna be a father
522
00:17:53,034 --> 00:17:54,241
for the first time,
523
00:17:54,275 --> 00:17:55,793
and he didn't like
the idea of like
524
00:17:55,827 --> 00:17:56,586
what if I'm not gonna be around
525
00:17:56,620 --> 00:17:57,620
to raise this child,
526
00:17:57,655 --> 00:17:58,413
or he didn't want one
527
00:17:58,448 --> 00:17:59,344
in the first place,
528
00:17:59,379 --> 00:18:00,310
like what if that was an extra
529
00:18:00,344 --> 00:18:01,620
motivation as to why he would
530
00:18:01,655 --> 00:18:03,655
target couples or
pregnant women.
531
00:18:03,689 --> 00:18:05,034
Exactly, and actually he was
532
00:18:05,068 --> 00:18:06,379
with a pregnant woman
533
00:18:06,413 --> 00:18:07,596
before he met your grandmother.
534
00:18:07,620 --> 00:18:09,241
Verna, he writes
about her in the book,
535
00:18:09,275 --> 00:18:11,103
and she disappeared.
536
00:18:13,137 --> 00:18:14,137
"Verna wasn't too
537
00:18:14,172 --> 00:18:15,586
"bright to begin with.
538
00:18:15,620 --> 00:18:17,034
"I told Jeannette we're going
539
00:18:17,068 --> 00:18:18,000
"to leave Denver,
540
00:18:18,034 --> 00:18:19,034
"but we're not going to
541
00:18:19,068 --> 00:18:20,103
"take Verna with us.
542
00:18:20,137 --> 00:18:22,241
"Don't let her know that
543
00:18:22,275 --> 00:18:24,000
"you know what's happening.
544
00:18:24,034 --> 00:18:25,068
"I only have her here
545
00:18:25,103 --> 00:18:26,034
"because she is pregnant,
546
00:18:26,068 --> 00:18:28,620
"and she wanted to get away.
547
00:18:28,655 --> 00:18:31,620
"I lied to you; She
is not my sister,"
548
00:18:31,655 --> 00:18:32,965
"but I swear to God she's"
549
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,517
"not pregnant from me."
550
00:18:34,551 --> 00:18:36,965
"I've never touched her."
551
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,241
Verna went out shopping,
552
00:18:38,275 --> 00:18:41,793
and they left before
she can come back.
553
00:18:41,827 --> 00:18:43,241
I wonder how much
of that's true.
554
00:18:43,275 --> 00:18:46,068
Yeah, I'm a sexual
assault investigator.
555
00:18:46,103 --> 00:18:47,103
People freak out
556
00:18:47,137 --> 00:18:48,931
when they find out their
557
00:18:48,965 --> 00:18:50,148
wives and girlfriends
are pregnant.
558
00:18:50,172 --> 00:18:51,068
It scares the hell
559
00:18:51,103 --> 00:18:52,586
out of them in some cases.
560
00:18:52,620 --> 00:18:54,862
Sex is a very powerful tool
561
00:18:54,896 --> 00:18:56,137
that could drive you crazy
562
00:18:56,172 --> 00:18:58,000
that's just how people are.
563
00:18:58,034 --> 00:18:59,079
Would the fact, too, that
564
00:18:59,103 --> 00:19:00,379
I wonder if Ed had
565
00:19:00,413 --> 00:19:02,517
not gone to jail when he did
566
00:19:02,551 --> 00:19:04,034
if my father would
have even been born
567
00:19:04,068 --> 00:19:06,517
because he wasn't
born yet, right?
568
00:19:06,551 --> 00:19:07,482
He may have killed your
569
00:19:07,517 --> 00:19:08,965
grandmother as she was pregnant,
570
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,551
but he got caught in Montana.
571
00:19:10,586 --> 00:19:12,206
Remember one thing.
572
00:19:12,241 --> 00:19:13,551
The statute of limitation
573
00:19:13,586 --> 00:19:15,448
does not run on the truth,
574
00:19:15,482 --> 00:19:17,793
so you got to keep digging.
575
00:19:24,551 --> 00:19:26,310
In this Modesto neighborhood
576
00:19:26,344 --> 00:19:28,551
a celebration has
been interrupted
577
00:19:28,586 --> 00:19:30,758
by a search for a missing woman.
578
00:19:30,793 --> 00:19:32,517
27-year-old Laci Peterson,
579
00:19:32,551 --> 00:19:33,931
8-1/2 months pregnant
580
00:19:33,965 --> 00:19:35,517
disappeared on Christmas Eve.
581
00:19:35,551 --> 00:19:36,862
Meantime, well wishers
582
00:19:36,896 --> 00:19:38,251
have been leaving
candles, flowers,
583
00:19:38,275 --> 00:19:40,413
and prayers at
the Peterson home.
584
00:19:40,448 --> 00:19:42,310
The fact that Scott Peterson
585
00:19:42,344 --> 00:19:44,931
was a wife cheater
made him a suspect,
586
00:19:44,965 --> 00:19:46,862
and that he went
out on Christmas Eve
587
00:19:46,896 --> 00:19:47,827
to go fishing rather than
588
00:19:47,862 --> 00:19:48,872
stay home with his family.
589
00:19:48,896 --> 00:19:51,034
Then the bodies, supposedly
590
00:19:51,068 --> 00:19:53,413
wash up on shore on Easter
591
00:19:53,448 --> 00:19:55,482
right where he had been fishing.
592
00:19:55,517 --> 00:19:56,965
That really was
the only evidence
593
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,586
there was that Scott Peterson
594
00:19:58,620 --> 00:20:00,000
had killed Laci Peterson.
595
00:20:00,034 --> 00:20:01,448
You know, Ed
Edwards, in his book
596
00:20:01,482 --> 00:20:02,896
he always refers
to other inmates
597
00:20:02,931 --> 00:20:05,034
doing these specific crimes.
598
00:20:05,068 --> 00:20:07,241
One of them is killing
a pregnant woman,
599
00:20:07,275 --> 00:20:08,241
and stabbing her
600
00:20:08,275 --> 00:20:10,103
in the belly with an ice pick.
601
00:20:10,137 --> 00:20:11,724
"Another fellow had been going
602
00:20:11,758 --> 00:20:12,862
"with a girl and had
603
00:20:12,896 --> 00:20:13,931
"gotten her pregnant.
604
00:20:13,965 --> 00:20:15,251
"When they both
decided they didn't
605
00:20:15,275 --> 00:20:16,862
"want the child, he
attempted to abort
606
00:20:16,896 --> 00:20:18,068
"it by stabbing her in her
607
00:20:18,103 --> 00:20:19,724
"swollen abdomen
with an ice pick."
608
00:20:19,758 --> 00:20:21,034
"He was successful"
609
00:20:21,068 --> 00:20:22,079
"in getting rid of the baby,"
610
00:20:22,103 --> 00:20:24,655
"and his girlfriend as well."
611
00:20:24,689 --> 00:20:26,551
So throughout his
book he kind of
612
00:20:26,586 --> 00:20:28,551
highlights stories like that
613
00:20:28,586 --> 00:20:30,931
putting it on others.
614
00:20:30,965 --> 00:20:32,862
Yes, but leaving you with
615
00:20:32,896 --> 00:20:35,344
the impression for
interpretation.
616
00:20:35,379 --> 00:20:36,379
Exactly.
617
00:20:36,413 --> 00:20:38,310
My theory on it is that
618
00:20:38,344 --> 00:20:40,413
she invited her killer in.
619
00:20:40,448 --> 00:20:42,034
If Edwards had a role
620
00:20:42,068 --> 00:20:43,862
in this instance that
621
00:20:43,896 --> 00:20:45,482
would be his M.O. wouldn't it?
622
00:20:45,517 --> 00:20:46,862
He would have to make them
623
00:20:46,896 --> 00:20:48,862
not see it coming.
624
00:20:48,896 --> 00:20:50,000
This was a happy home,
625
00:20:50,034 --> 00:20:51,551
and how abruptly it ended
626
00:20:51,586 --> 00:20:53,586
it just boggles my mind.
627
00:21:00,482 --> 00:21:01,482
We're gonna meet with.
628
00:21:01,517 --> 00:21:03,413
Garth Stapley at
The Modesto Bee.
629
00:21:03,448 --> 00:21:05,655
He covered the
Scott Peterson case
630
00:21:05,689 --> 00:21:06,793
right from the beginning.
631
00:21:06,827 --> 00:21:08,586
He received hundreds
632
00:21:08,620 --> 00:21:10,206
of emails and letters,
633
00:21:10,241 --> 00:21:13,000
and I've gone
through all of them.
634
00:21:14,689 --> 00:21:16,413
The one that stands out is what
635
00:21:16,448 --> 00:21:18,448
I call the "God Letter."
636
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,827
Once we get him to open up,
637
00:21:21,862 --> 00:21:23,344
hopefully, we can get to asking
638
00:21:23,379 --> 00:21:25,241
specifics about like can
639
00:21:25,275 --> 00:21:26,965
we see this letter.
640
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,241
Like if you see
641
00:21:28,275 --> 00:21:31,034
an opportunity to
ask only ask it.
642
00:21:31,068 --> 00:21:32,551
It's like he's willing.
643
00:21:32,586 --> 00:21:34,172
Exactly.
644
00:21:35,172 --> 00:21:36,068
This is our newsroom,
645
00:21:36,103 --> 00:21:38,827
of course, what remains of it.
646
00:21:38,862 --> 00:21:40,137
Yeah, I suppose it kind of
647
00:21:40,172 --> 00:21:41,068
got a little smaller.
648
00:21:41,103 --> 00:21:42,344
There was a day when
649
00:21:42,379 --> 00:21:43,275
all of this was
filled with people
650
00:21:43,310 --> 00:21:45,896
before the industry collapsed.
651
00:21:47,827 --> 00:21:50,137
So with the Zodiac
we do know that
652
00:21:50,172 --> 00:21:52,689
he liked to taunt the press.
653
00:21:52,724 --> 00:21:54,275
Would any of the hundreds of
654
00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:56,000
letters that you received
655
00:21:56,034 --> 00:21:57,103
during this whole process
656
00:21:57,137 --> 00:21:58,389
did you ever feel
like you were being
657
00:21:58,413 --> 00:21:59,655
taunted by any of them?
658
00:21:59,689 --> 00:22:00,862
People would write in,
659
00:22:00,896 --> 00:22:03,172
and pose theories and such,
660
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:06,586
but being taunted, well, no,
661
00:22:06,620 --> 00:22:08,379
I don't recall feeling
662
00:22:09,724 --> 00:22:12,517
that the real killer
was out there,
663
00:22:12,551 --> 00:22:14,103
and was trying to get us
664
00:22:14,137 --> 00:22:15,793
to look into it.
665
00:22:15,827 --> 00:22:17,275
I went through all the letters
666
00:22:17,310 --> 00:22:19,206
on your website trying to see if
667
00:22:19,241 --> 00:22:21,034
I'd find anything
that would match
668
00:22:21,068 --> 00:22:22,379
to what Ed Edwards would do.
669
00:22:22,413 --> 00:22:23,551
Yeah.
670
00:22:23,586 --> 00:22:25,379
Out of all the
letters I read on there
671
00:22:25,413 --> 00:22:27,379
one letter in particular,
672
00:22:27,413 --> 00:22:28,803
the handwritten
letter that was sent
673
00:22:28,827 --> 00:22:31,137
on May 4th, 2003 that's titled.
674
00:22:31,172 --> 00:22:32,931
A Message From God.
675
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,793
GOD, all capitalized.
676
00:22:35,827 --> 00:22:38,034
I in parentheses,
again, next to it.
677
00:22:38,068 --> 00:22:39,482
Delivered the evidence
678
00:22:39,517 --> 00:22:41,896
"to secure the arrest
of Scott Peterson,"
679
00:22:41,931 --> 00:22:43,448
"and the eventual conviction"
680
00:22:43,482 --> 00:22:45,827
"beyond a reasonable doubt."
681
00:22:45,862 --> 00:22:47,034
Then he goes onto say.
682
00:22:47,068 --> 00:22:49,931
"GOD is one of us,"
underlining is,
683
00:22:51,344 --> 00:22:52,896
I suggest that means
684
00:22:52,931 --> 00:22:54,758
is he's just one of us
685
00:22:54,793 --> 00:22:56,724
that the killer is a walking
686
00:22:56,758 --> 00:22:59,034
human being it's him.
687
00:22:59,068 --> 00:22:59,827
I know it sounds bizarre
688
00:22:59,862 --> 00:23:01,137
to a lot of people,
689
00:23:01,172 --> 00:23:03,275
but when you just
follow the man's life,
690
00:23:03,310 --> 00:23:04,965
especially, through his book,
691
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,241
and it was always about
692
00:23:06,275 --> 00:23:07,827
the cryptic letters with him,
693
00:23:07,862 --> 00:23:10,862
and it was the same
way with the Zodiac.
694
00:23:10,896 --> 00:23:12,275
Are there clues in there
695
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:14,137
that only the killer would know?
696
00:23:14,172 --> 00:23:15,275
No.
697
00:23:15,310 --> 00:23:16,965
To me it looked
like it was somebody
698
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,793
who had studied
the case very well.
699
00:23:18,827 --> 00:23:21,103
That's not signed by Ed Edwards,
700
00:23:21,137 --> 00:23:22,275
or anybody else,
701
00:23:22,310 --> 00:23:24,724
so I don't know who that's from.
702
00:23:24,758 --> 00:23:27,448
Right, what Ed
did his whole life,
703
00:23:27,482 --> 00:23:29,344
that I suspect he
did his whole life
704
00:23:29,379 --> 00:23:32,034
was to frame people, especially,
705
00:23:32,068 --> 00:23:34,241
cheating husbands.
706
00:23:34,275 --> 00:23:36,137
That theory
suggests that someone
707
00:23:36,172 --> 00:23:37,862
would know that Scott Peterson
708
00:23:37,896 --> 00:23:39,931
was having an affair.
709
00:23:39,965 --> 00:23:41,517
Where's the evidence
that he knew
710
00:23:41,551 --> 00:23:43,517
anything about Scott Peterson
711
00:23:43,551 --> 00:23:45,413
before Laci went missing?
712
00:23:45,448 --> 00:23:47,758
Yeah, and that's why we're here.
713
00:23:47,793 --> 00:23:49,965
That's what we're
trying to dig into
714
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,793
is the Scott Peterson case.
715
00:23:51,827 --> 00:23:53,103
As opposed to,
716
00:23:54,620 --> 00:23:56,793
you know, there is a murder,
717
00:23:56,827 --> 00:23:58,068
and then he tries to
718
00:23:58,103 --> 00:24:00,137
worm his way into it.
719
00:24:02,344 --> 00:24:03,275
What do you have that
720
00:24:03,310 --> 00:24:06,172
suggests that he was here?
721
00:24:06,206 --> 00:24:07,206
In 2002.
722
00:24:08,206 --> 00:24:09,689
Zodiac Killer.com
723
00:24:09,724 --> 00:24:12,103
held a conference in Vallejo,
724
00:24:12,137 --> 00:24:13,551
and there was hundreds of people
725
00:24:13,586 --> 00:24:15,344
that showed up at
that conference.
726
00:24:15,379 --> 00:24:16,448
I do have a photo of a man
727
00:24:16,482 --> 00:24:18,172
that appears to
look like Ed Edwards
728
00:24:18,206 --> 00:24:20,137
in the background
at that conference.
729
00:24:20,172 --> 00:24:22,172
His wife said they had been
730
00:24:22,206 --> 00:24:24,310
in California in the 2000's.
731
00:24:24,344 --> 00:24:25,631
To place him here
on the day that.
732
00:24:25,655 --> 00:24:27,137
Laci Peterson was killed
733
00:24:27,172 --> 00:24:28,172
I can't do that.
734
00:24:28,206 --> 00:24:29,827
I haven't been able to do that.
735
00:24:29,862 --> 00:24:31,493
What do you think
about all this, Wayne?
736
00:24:31,517 --> 00:24:32,379
I figured the worse that can
737
00:24:32,413 --> 00:24:33,517
happen here, especially,
738
00:24:33,551 --> 00:24:35,137
if we were to try to link him
739
00:24:35,172 --> 00:24:36,275
with that letter
740
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:37,344
if we could rule him out
741
00:24:37,379 --> 00:24:40,137
that he did not send it then
742
00:24:40,172 --> 00:24:41,793
it might at least help
743
00:24:41,827 --> 00:24:43,724
to either solidify it,
744
00:24:43,758 --> 00:24:45,482
or show that there was something
745
00:24:45,517 --> 00:24:47,620
else going on with
this investigation.
746
00:24:47,655 --> 00:24:50,827
Forgive me, but it just seems
747
00:24:50,862 --> 00:24:53,172
like you've got a long way to go
748
00:24:53,206 --> 00:24:55,413
from a theory to evidence.
749
00:24:57,172 --> 00:24:59,482
Sitting there talking to Garth
750
00:24:59,517 --> 00:25:01,896
it's like going to
a family gathering,
751
00:25:01,931 --> 00:25:04,241
and you have that
one drunk uncle
752
00:25:04,275 --> 00:25:06,344
you have to sort
of apologize for,
753
00:25:06,379 --> 00:25:08,724
or give like the, look to.
754
00:25:11,896 --> 00:25:13,068
I feel like that
755
00:25:13,103 --> 00:25:15,206
shouldn't have to happen.
756
00:25:15,241 --> 00:25:16,251
John certainly is a victim
757
00:25:16,275 --> 00:25:17,206
of Ed Edwards.
758
00:25:17,241 --> 00:25:19,379
He will have a lasting effect
759
00:25:19,413 --> 00:25:20,724
on John's life.
760
00:25:21,965 --> 00:25:24,241
The dots just did
not connect on this,
761
00:25:24,275 --> 00:25:25,551
and I think John has finally
762
00:25:25,586 --> 00:25:27,551
taken us past the
edge of reason.
763
00:25:27,586 --> 00:25:30,482
I don't know how
we can keep going.
764
00:25:38,344 --> 00:25:39,527
Wayne was having his doubts,
765
00:25:39,551 --> 00:25:40,965
but I convinced him to check out
766
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,551
one more lead in California
767
00:25:42,586 --> 00:25:44,517
where another
female murder victim
768
00:25:44,551 --> 00:25:46,206
matched the physical description
769
00:25:46,241 --> 00:25:47,586
of Ed's mother.
770
00:25:54,206 --> 00:25:55,689
Many researchers believe that
771
00:25:55,724 --> 00:25:56,827
what goes on in those early
772
00:25:56,862 --> 00:25:58,655
formative years sets the stage
773
00:25:58,689 --> 00:26:00,586
for the rest of your life
774
00:26:00,620 --> 00:26:01,631
in terms of your personality
775
00:26:01,655 --> 00:26:02,620
how you're gonna
think and behave,
776
00:26:02,655 --> 00:26:03,896
and feel about things,
777
00:26:03,931 --> 00:26:06,310
and that attachment with mom
778
00:26:07,655 --> 00:26:08,758
early, early on
779
00:26:09,827 --> 00:26:13,068
is really the
foundation of empathy
780
00:26:13,103 --> 00:26:14,793
for the rest of your life.
781
00:26:14,827 --> 00:26:15,931
If you don't have that
782
00:26:15,965 --> 00:26:17,275
connection with mom
783
00:26:17,310 --> 00:26:19,758
empathy becomes difficult,
784
00:26:19,793 --> 00:26:21,068
if not impossible.
785
00:26:21,103 --> 00:26:22,793
Can you touch on
786
00:26:22,827 --> 00:26:24,275
I guess it's matricide
787
00:26:24,310 --> 00:26:25,344
is that what it is
788
00:26:25,379 --> 00:26:26,620
killing of mothers?
789
00:26:26,655 --> 00:26:27,665
It's the killing
on one's mother.
790
00:26:27,689 --> 00:26:28,969
Do you have the
idea that perhaps
791
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,320
he shot his mother
with the rifle?
792
00:26:30,344 --> 00:26:31,724
I really do feel that,
793
00:26:31,758 --> 00:26:33,044
and then right
after that shooting
794
00:26:33,068 --> 00:26:34,206
he was just removed
795
00:26:34,241 --> 00:26:35,310
from the entire family,
796
00:26:35,344 --> 00:26:36,424
and placed in an orphanage,
797
00:26:36,448 --> 00:26:37,551
so it was very strange that
798
00:26:37,586 --> 00:26:38,965
after the killing of his mother
799
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,586
he was kind of removed
from the family.
800
00:26:40,620 --> 00:26:41,631
Can you think of any other
801
00:26:41,655 --> 00:26:43,379
explanation for that other than
802
00:26:43,413 --> 00:26:45,896
perhaps he shot his own mother?
803
00:26:45,931 --> 00:26:47,206
That's really the only
804
00:26:47,241 --> 00:26:49,275
explanation I can think of.
805
00:26:49,310 --> 00:26:51,275
Could, for example, they removed
806
00:26:51,310 --> 00:26:52,448
him from the family because
807
00:26:52,482 --> 00:26:53,379
they thought it would not be
808
00:26:53,413 --> 00:26:54,931
a good place for a child to be?
809
00:26:54,965 --> 00:26:56,620
Yeah, definitely,
I mean, basically,
810
00:26:56,655 --> 00:26:58,586
mom was a single mother in 1938
811
00:26:58,620 --> 00:27:00,620
fresh out of prison.
812
00:27:00,655 --> 00:27:02,862
If you want to say
that these victims
813
00:27:02,896 --> 00:27:04,793
represented his
mother in some way
814
00:27:04,827 --> 00:27:06,827
that's possible, you know,
815
00:27:06,862 --> 00:27:07,872
there's really no way of knowing
816
00:27:07,896 --> 00:27:09,862
without having him
lay on the couch
817
00:27:09,896 --> 00:27:11,172
for months and figuring out
818
00:27:11,206 --> 00:27:12,448
what's going on in there.
819
00:27:12,482 --> 00:27:14,965
Based on Ed's psych
evals do you think
820
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,620
it's possible that
a 13-year-old kid
821
00:27:17,655 --> 00:27:19,482
was capable of a homicide?
822
00:27:19,517 --> 00:27:22,862
I think it's a
great question, John.
823
00:27:22,896 --> 00:27:25,448
Yes, I think it's possible.
824
00:27:25,482 --> 00:27:26,448
He said it's possible,
825
00:27:26,482 --> 00:27:28,137
and John hears probable.
826
00:27:28,172 --> 00:27:30,275
You could see the
wheels turning.
827
00:27:30,310 --> 00:27:31,493
His tail wags, he
gets really excited,
828
00:27:31,517 --> 00:27:34,448
and thinks, you know what?
829
00:27:34,482 --> 00:27:36,758
Ed could have killed
this person at 13.
830
00:27:36,793 --> 00:27:38,344
It's a weird level
of encouragement
831
00:27:38,379 --> 00:27:40,793
that he shouldn't get.
832
00:27:40,827 --> 00:27:41,862
You know, I was able
833
00:27:41,896 --> 00:27:43,862
to recover psych
records from Ed when
834
00:27:43,896 --> 00:27:45,137
he was 13 years and four months
835
00:27:45,172 --> 00:27:46,586
like I'm showing here.
836
00:27:46,620 --> 00:27:48,862
He was five foot 2-1/2 inches,
837
00:27:48,896 --> 00:27:51,137
126 pounds, which is actually
838
00:27:52,310 --> 00:27:55,379
pretty stocky for
five foot two and 126.
839
00:27:55,413 --> 00:27:57,586
This part of the
evaluation shows
840
00:27:57,620 --> 00:27:59,241
that he's a sadomasochist,
841
00:27:59,275 --> 00:28:01,241
psychopathic in nature,
842
00:28:02,206 --> 00:28:04,551
and explosive personality.
843
00:28:04,586 --> 00:28:06,172
There is sexual
conflict suggested
844
00:28:06,206 --> 00:28:08,379
of sadomasochistic nature.
845
00:28:08,413 --> 00:28:10,896
Emotional outbursts
can be expected,
846
00:28:10,931 --> 00:28:12,862
and Wayne is likely to show such
847
00:28:12,896 --> 00:28:15,896
reactions to
outside experiences.
848
00:28:15,931 --> 00:28:17,379
The real issues that
stood out to me,
849
00:28:17,413 --> 00:28:18,793
and that is "The boy is still"
850
00:28:18,827 --> 00:28:20,827
"confused about
his two mothers."
851
00:28:20,862 --> 00:28:22,689
His first mother
at the age of five
852
00:28:22,724 --> 00:28:24,413
is shot and killed
in front of him,
853
00:28:24,448 --> 00:28:25,862
and shortly after that
854
00:28:25,896 --> 00:28:27,241
his adopted mother
855
00:28:27,275 --> 00:28:29,551
Mary Ethel Edwards died of MS.
856
00:28:29,586 --> 00:28:31,896
He is conflicted about
these two mothers,
857
00:28:31,931 --> 00:28:33,931
which I felt would represent
858
00:28:33,965 --> 00:28:35,724
real mother issues.
859
00:28:36,793 --> 00:28:38,758
When you look at a
lot of his victims
860
00:28:38,793 --> 00:28:40,896
they match what his
mother looked like.
861
00:28:40,931 --> 00:28:42,034
And my grandmother, too.
862
00:28:42,068 --> 00:28:43,413
And your grandma, yeah,
863
00:28:43,448 --> 00:28:45,586
and even some of his victims
864
00:28:45,620 --> 00:28:48,000
that he confessed to.
865
00:28:48,034 --> 00:28:49,068
Elizabeth Short
866
00:28:49,103 --> 00:28:50,896
is probably a prime example.
867
00:28:50,931 --> 00:28:53,931
Another dark haired
beautiful woman.
868
00:28:55,068 --> 00:28:56,217
The murder of
Elizabeth Short has
869
00:28:56,241 --> 00:28:57,596
haunted the Los Angeles
Police Department
870
00:28:57,620 --> 00:28:58,586
since the heinous crime
871
00:28:58,620 --> 00:29:00,482
was committed in 1947.
872
00:29:02,068 --> 00:29:03,310
She was an inspiring actress
873
00:29:03,344 --> 00:29:04,620
who lived in L.A.
874
00:29:04,655 --> 00:29:07,448
and she disappeared
in early January.
875
00:29:07,482 --> 00:29:09,103
10 days later her body was found
876
00:29:09,137 --> 00:29:11,241
cut in half drained of blood,
877
00:29:11,275 --> 00:29:12,758
and sexually mutilated.
878
00:29:12,793 --> 00:29:14,103
She would come to be known
879
00:29:14,137 --> 00:29:15,965
as the Black Dahlia,
880
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:16,931
and to this day it's still an
881
00:29:16,965 --> 00:29:20,068
open cold case with no suspects.
882
00:29:20,103 --> 00:29:21,551
1946 it's kind of
883
00:29:21,586 --> 00:29:23,482
a transitional time for Ed.
884
00:29:23,517 --> 00:29:25,137
He was thrown out
of the orphanage.
885
00:29:25,172 --> 00:29:26,724
He's on the run,
886
00:29:26,758 --> 00:29:28,931
and he's a 13-1/2-year-old
887
00:29:28,965 --> 00:29:31,206
when the Black Dahlia occurs.
888
00:29:31,241 --> 00:29:34,620
I still have a major
problem with that.
889
00:29:34,655 --> 00:29:36,965
13, it's just, you know.
890
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,137
I had a problem with that
891
00:29:38,172 --> 00:29:40,275
when I first started
my investigation.
892
00:29:40,310 --> 00:29:41,172
Yeah, that's something that
893
00:29:41,206 --> 00:29:43,241
sticks in my mind a lot.
894
00:29:44,344 --> 00:29:45,631
Yeah, everybody
seems to have a problem
895
00:29:45,655 --> 00:29:47,034
with that 13-year-old
being capable
896
00:29:47,068 --> 00:29:48,586
of cutting people up,
897
00:29:48,620 --> 00:29:50,551
or whatever he may have done.
898
00:29:50,586 --> 00:29:52,275
At the age of 13
could someone have
899
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:54,931
amassed that amount of knowledge
900
00:29:54,965 --> 00:29:56,310
to do it so precisely as.
901
00:29:56,344 --> 00:29:57,965
Black Dahlia was killed?
902
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,206
Many people questioned
my investigation
903
00:30:00,241 --> 00:30:02,413
at the very
beginning about that,
904
00:30:02,448 --> 00:30:04,448
but this evaluation
905
00:30:04,482 --> 00:30:06,103
kind of describes him
906
00:30:06,137 --> 00:30:08,448
as being psychopathic in nature
907
00:30:08,482 --> 00:30:10,620
an explosive personality.
908
00:30:12,413 --> 00:30:14,206
Wayne's negativity has been
909
00:30:14,241 --> 00:30:15,724
pretty frustrating,
910
00:30:15,758 --> 00:30:17,827
but I spent 10
months communicating
911
00:30:17,862 --> 00:30:19,655
with Ed by letter
and phone call,
912
00:30:19,689 --> 00:30:22,275
and know what he was capable of.
913
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,310
As my investigation went forward
914
00:30:25,344 --> 00:30:26,793
what constantly kept coming up
915
00:30:26,827 --> 00:30:28,137
was the website.
916
00:30:29,379 --> 00:30:32,137
Black Dahlia Solution.org.
917
00:30:32,172 --> 00:30:35,620
The writings in
this are so Ed like,
918
00:30:35,655 --> 00:30:37,275
and so Zodiac like.
919
00:30:37,310 --> 00:30:38,206
He actually talks
920
00:30:38,241 --> 00:30:40,758
about the Zodiac in here.
921
00:30:40,793 --> 00:30:42,010
I believe this site was authored
922
00:30:42,034 --> 00:30:43,620
by your grandfather.
923
00:30:43,655 --> 00:30:44,413
I found this silhouette
924
00:30:44,448 --> 00:30:45,724
picture on there,
925
00:30:45,758 --> 00:30:46,976
and next to the
silhouette picture
926
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,379
in detail that
this was the killer
927
00:30:48,413 --> 00:30:49,965
of the Black Dahlia,
928
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,172
and it certainly
looks like a mug shot
929
00:30:52,206 --> 00:30:54,448
I have of Ed Edwards.
930
00:30:54,482 --> 00:30:56,689
That mug shot is from 1955,
931
00:30:56,724 --> 00:30:59,068
so Ed would have
been 22 years old.
932
00:30:59,103 --> 00:31:00,758
The similarity
between those pictures
933
00:31:00,793 --> 00:31:02,241
is pretty incredible,
934
00:31:02,275 --> 00:31:03,517
so that's kind of
935
00:31:03,551 --> 00:31:04,631
what led me to think
that Ed may have
936
00:31:04,655 --> 00:31:05,862
authored this site.
937
00:31:05,896 --> 00:31:07,010
Yeah, there are similarities,
938
00:31:07,034 --> 00:31:08,517
but John is avoiding
the fact that.
939
00:31:08,551 --> 00:31:11,620
Ed was only 13 years
old in 1947, 13.
940
00:31:18,068 --> 00:31:19,034
Down the rabbit hole
941
00:31:19,068 --> 00:31:20,482
with the Black Dahlia theory,
942
00:31:20,517 --> 00:31:22,241
but it did happen
in my backyard,
943
00:31:22,275 --> 00:31:24,172
so I keep an open mind.
944
00:31:29,482 --> 00:31:31,206
This is where I think Ed began
945
00:31:31,241 --> 00:31:33,344
his killing career
back when he was
946
00:31:33,379 --> 00:31:36,034
just 12, 13 years
old is this area.
947
00:31:36,068 --> 00:31:37,620
So how would Ed have even
948
00:31:37,655 --> 00:31:38,931
gotten himself involved with
949
00:31:38,965 --> 00:31:40,517
Elizabeth Short in
the first place?
950
00:31:40,551 --> 00:31:41,931
Well, it's my belief that his
951
00:31:41,965 --> 00:31:43,931
first killings were
the Lipstick killings,
952
00:31:43,965 --> 00:31:45,206
which were one year before
953
00:31:45,241 --> 00:31:46,931
the Black Dahlia was displayed.
954
00:31:46,965 --> 00:31:48,586
But when he was 12?
955
00:31:48,620 --> 00:31:49,551
Yes, that's exactly
956
00:31:49,586 --> 00:31:50,896
what I believe.
957
00:31:51,931 --> 00:31:54,275
The Lipstick Killings he killed
958
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:55,551
a little six-year-old girl
959
00:31:55,586 --> 00:31:57,068
named Suzanne Degnan
960
00:31:57,103 --> 00:31:58,275
who is also dismembered
961
00:31:58,310 --> 00:32:01,310
on the streets of
Chicago in 1946.
962
00:32:01,344 --> 00:32:03,275
Elizabeth Short,
the Black Dahlia
963
00:32:03,310 --> 00:32:05,586
was in Chicago July of 1946
964
00:32:07,172 --> 00:32:09,034
portraying herself as a reporter
965
00:32:09,068 --> 00:32:10,448
getting information
966
00:32:10,482 --> 00:32:12,344
on the Suzanne Degnan murder,
967
00:32:12,379 --> 00:32:15,172
and she's obsessed
like the country was.
968
00:32:15,206 --> 00:32:17,448
Is that something
that is verifiable?
969
00:32:17,482 --> 00:32:18,758
Yes, yeah.
970
00:32:18,793 --> 00:32:21,000
She's being pumped
with the details
971
00:32:21,034 --> 00:32:23,137
by the killer himself.
972
00:32:23,172 --> 00:32:24,517
Ed has been known to give out
973
00:32:24,551 --> 00:32:27,551
details of his own
crimes to people.
974
00:32:28,931 --> 00:32:30,034
On the website.
975
00:32:30,068 --> 00:32:32,000
Black Dahlia
Solution that details
976
00:32:32,034 --> 00:32:33,655
that there's where he met
977
00:32:33,689 --> 00:32:35,517
Elizabeth Short was in Chicago
978
00:32:35,551 --> 00:32:37,413
in July of 1946,
979
00:32:37,448 --> 00:32:39,068
and what he details on the site
980
00:32:39,103 --> 00:32:41,241
is that she dissed him,
981
00:32:41,275 --> 00:32:43,068
and he went looking for her
982
00:32:43,103 --> 00:32:45,000
knowing she was in L.A.
983
00:32:46,379 --> 00:32:48,310
He actually details exactly how
984
00:32:48,344 --> 00:32:50,034
he killed Elizabeth Short,
985
00:32:50,068 --> 00:32:51,137
what he did to her,
986
00:32:51,172 --> 00:32:52,965
why he cut a big smile
987
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,034
on her face like his smile,
988
00:32:55,068 --> 00:32:57,620
why he displayed her
on Degnan Boulevard
989
00:32:57,655 --> 00:33:00,655
and Norton Avenue
all to tie it to his.
990
00:33:00,689 --> 00:33:01,413
You mean Degnan Boulevard
991
00:33:01,448 --> 00:33:02,586
like Suzanne Degnan?
992
00:33:02,620 --> 00:33:04,379
Yes, the six-year-old
993
00:33:04,413 --> 00:33:05,551
girl from Chicago,
994
00:33:05,586 --> 00:33:08,206
so the display site
for the Black Dahlia
995
00:33:08,241 --> 00:33:10,758
is where Degnan Boulevard
996
00:33:10,793 --> 00:33:12,241
meets Norton Avenue.
997
00:33:12,275 --> 00:33:13,458
It's a pretty big coincidence.
998
00:33:13,482 --> 00:33:15,620
Yeah, it's huge.
999
00:33:17,448 --> 00:33:18,931
All right, so who
1000
00:33:18,965 --> 00:33:20,206
are we hanging out with today?
1001
00:33:20,241 --> 00:33:21,241
Larry Harnisch.
1002
00:33:21,275 --> 00:33:23,448
He's a retired LA
Times reporter.
1003
00:33:23,482 --> 00:33:25,241
Larry actually became pretty
1004
00:33:25,275 --> 00:33:26,827
obsessed with the
Black Dahlia case,
1005
00:33:26,862 --> 00:33:28,137
and did a lot of research.
1006
00:33:28,172 --> 00:33:29,241
How did you get involved
1007
00:33:29,275 --> 00:33:32,310
in the Black Dahlia case?
1008
00:33:32,344 --> 00:33:33,482
Pure luck.
1009
00:33:33,517 --> 00:33:34,586
What was the scope
1010
00:33:34,620 --> 00:33:35,379
of this crime back then?
1011
00:33:35,413 --> 00:33:36,413
It was sensational
1012
00:33:36,448 --> 00:33:37,275
not just in Los Angeles,
1013
00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:39,034
but across the country.
1014
00:33:39,068 --> 00:33:40,344
I mean, she was young.
1015
00:33:40,379 --> 00:33:42,344
It was incredibly gruesome,
1016
00:33:42,379 --> 00:33:44,000
and it's unsolved.
1017
00:33:45,241 --> 00:33:46,344
What do we know about her?
1018
00:33:46,379 --> 00:33:47,389
You know, that's
a five cent question
1019
00:33:47,413 --> 00:33:49,034
with a $50 answer.
1020
00:33:50,206 --> 00:33:52,344
No, really, what I
always tell people is
1021
00:33:52,379 --> 00:33:54,413
Elizabeth Short was a young lady
1022
00:33:54,448 --> 00:33:55,862
who was 22 years old
1023
00:33:55,896 --> 00:33:57,103
when she was killed.
1024
00:33:57,137 --> 00:34:00,241
She had come out
from Massachusetts.
1025
00:34:01,172 --> 00:34:03,482
In the summer of
1946 she decided
1026
00:34:03,517 --> 00:34:05,482
to come out to Los Angeles
1027
00:34:05,517 --> 00:34:07,827
to kind of rekindle the romance.
1028
00:34:07,862 --> 00:34:09,413
Her fiancé had been
1029
00:34:09,448 --> 00:34:10,413
killed in a plane crash
1030
00:34:10,448 --> 00:34:12,068
on the last day of the war,
1031
00:34:12,103 --> 00:34:15,034
so she was really
devastated from that.
1032
00:34:15,068 --> 00:34:16,320
Are you familiar with her being
1033
00:34:16,344 --> 00:34:18,103
in Chicago prior
to coming to L.A.?
1034
00:34:18,137 --> 00:34:19,482
Yeah, she stopped in Chicago
1035
00:34:19,517 --> 00:34:21,275
for a couple of weeks.
1036
00:34:21,310 --> 00:34:23,655
It's not clear why.
1037
00:34:23,689 --> 00:34:26,896
I'm not really sure
anybody knows why.
1038
00:34:28,137 --> 00:34:30,655
The website Black
Dahlia Solution.org
1039
00:34:30,689 --> 00:34:32,551
I'm sure you might be
familiar with that.
1040
00:34:32,586 --> 00:34:33,517
He's crazy.
1041
00:34:33,551 --> 00:34:35,000
That website is really
1042
00:34:35,034 --> 00:34:36,413
what led me to you.
1043
00:34:36,448 --> 00:34:38,896
The guy who does that I do have
1044
00:34:38,931 --> 00:34:40,137
some knowledge of him.
1045
00:34:40,172 --> 00:34:41,793
Have you done any
research on like
1046
00:34:41,827 --> 00:34:43,310
who owns the website,
1047
00:34:43,344 --> 00:34:45,413
or any of that kind of thing?
1048
00:34:45,448 --> 00:34:47,379
The man that owns
it now refuses to
1049
00:34:47,413 --> 00:34:50,448
divulge who the author was.
1050
00:34:50,482 --> 00:34:51,517
Interesting.
1051
00:34:51,551 --> 00:34:53,344
But the author
actually places himself
1052
00:34:53,379 --> 00:34:55,310
as being 13 years old in L.A.
1053
00:34:55,344 --> 00:34:56,769
at the time of the
Black Dahlia killing,
1054
00:34:56,793 --> 00:34:59,482
and that is the
age that Edwards.
1055
00:34:59,517 --> 00:35:01,689
To me his solution seems so
1056
00:35:01,724 --> 00:35:05,206
arbitrary and subjective
that it's like,
1057
00:35:05,241 --> 00:35:08,620
you know, to me it
didn't hold water.
1058
00:35:08,655 --> 00:35:10,379
So Larry tells John his source,
1059
00:35:10,413 --> 00:35:13,379
the website is
garbage, basically.
1060
00:35:13,413 --> 00:35:15,344
John needs some kind
of redemption here.
1061
00:35:15,379 --> 00:35:18,068
I'm curious what it's gonna be.
1062
00:35:19,344 --> 00:35:20,103
We're coming up
1063
00:35:20,137 --> 00:35:21,689
on the Biltmore Hotel,
1064
00:35:21,724 --> 00:35:23,517
which was built in the 1920's.
1065
00:35:23,551 --> 00:35:25,379
This is where Elizabeth Short
1066
00:35:25,413 --> 00:35:27,655
was last seen as far
as anybody knows.
1067
00:35:27,689 --> 00:35:30,241
In the 1940's Pershing Square
1068
00:35:30,275 --> 00:35:32,379
it would have been very busy.
1069
00:35:32,413 --> 00:35:33,344
There would have
been a lot of people
1070
00:35:33,379 --> 00:35:34,862
on the sidewalk, typically,
1071
00:35:34,896 --> 00:35:35,758
that kind of thing.
1072
00:35:35,793 --> 00:35:36,517
[John Was she staying here,
1073
00:35:36,551 --> 00:35:37,931
or was she just here?
1074
00:35:37,965 --> 00:35:39,379
No, what happened was
1075
00:35:39,413 --> 00:35:41,482
she was dropped off here
1076
00:35:41,517 --> 00:35:42,862
about six or 6:30.
1077
00:35:42,896 --> 00:35:44,482
The doorman tips his hat,
1078
00:35:44,517 --> 00:35:45,379
opens the door,
1079
00:35:45,413 --> 00:35:46,896
and she goes off down Olive.
1080
00:35:46,931 --> 00:35:50,793
Nobody that she knew
ever saw her again.
1081
00:35:50,827 --> 00:35:51,872
Do a know what date that was
1082
00:35:51,896 --> 00:35:53,103
that she was last seen?
1083
00:35:53,137 --> 00:35:54,344
January 9th.
1084
00:35:54,379 --> 00:35:55,419
So 9th and then she wasn't
1085
00:35:55,448 --> 00:35:58,206
found until the
15th, is that right?
1086
00:35:58,241 --> 00:35:59,517
I think that's the most
1087
00:35:59,551 --> 00:36:00,931
important thing
about her is that
1088
00:36:00,965 --> 00:36:02,758
was somebody who could disappear
1089
00:36:02,793 --> 00:36:05,344
for almost a week
and nobody noticed.
1090
00:36:05,379 --> 00:36:07,620
When it comes to her stopping
1091
00:36:07,655 --> 00:36:10,310
in a few places
before she got to L.A.
1092
00:36:10,344 --> 00:36:12,103
no one really knows
anything about
1093
00:36:12,137 --> 00:36:13,620
what she did in those places,
1094
00:36:13,655 --> 00:36:15,000
there's no?
1095
00:36:15,034 --> 00:36:16,448
Not really,
1096
00:36:16,482 --> 00:36:17,448
there's as lot of theories,
1097
00:36:17,482 --> 00:36:19,586
but we don't really know.
1098
00:36:24,344 --> 00:36:25,655
Earlier I was asking about why
1099
00:36:25,689 --> 00:36:26,448
she was in Chicago,
1100
00:36:26,482 --> 00:36:27,482
and what she was doing,
1101
00:36:27,517 --> 00:36:28,769
and you were saying that she was
1102
00:36:28,793 --> 00:36:30,448
obsessed with
Degman and all that.
1103
00:36:30,482 --> 00:36:31,482
That's not true.
1104
00:36:31,517 --> 00:36:32,793
There's no reports
1105
00:36:32,827 --> 00:36:35,103
that say why she was there.
1106
00:36:36,448 --> 00:36:37,620
You were telling me that
1107
00:36:37,655 --> 00:36:39,103
it's verified 100%,
1108
00:36:39,137 --> 00:36:40,965
but it's coming from
that portion of it
1109
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,241
that she was portraying herself
1110
00:36:42,275 --> 00:36:43,448
as a reporter is coming from.
1111
00:36:43,482 --> 00:36:45,034
Black Dahlia Solution.
1112
00:36:45,068 --> 00:36:45,965
We don't even know Ed even
1113
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,448
wrote this in the first place.
1114
00:36:47,482 --> 00:36:49,103
This could be 100%
fictionalized.
1115
00:36:49,137 --> 00:36:50,620
I have a really
hard time with that.
1116
00:36:50,655 --> 00:36:52,137
I can see his frustration
1117
00:36:52,172 --> 00:36:55,896
because he hasn't
followed the evidence.
1118
00:36:55,931 --> 00:36:57,517
He's looking for
that magical piece
1119
00:36:57,551 --> 00:36:59,448
that's gonna say,
boom! It's him,
1120
00:36:59,482 --> 00:37:01,344
and that's just not how
1121
00:37:01,379 --> 00:37:04,448
a murder investigation works.
1122
00:37:04,482 --> 00:37:05,620
We're walking south
1123
00:37:05,655 --> 00:37:06,862
on Norton Avenue.
1124
00:37:06,896 --> 00:37:08,241
This was all just sort of
1125
00:37:08,275 --> 00:37:09,517
like a vacant land,
1126
00:37:09,551 --> 00:37:11,827
slightly grown up
with some grass.
1127
00:37:11,862 --> 00:37:13,517
Were there any houses in here,
1128
00:37:13,551 --> 00:37:15,103
or was this all just
completely vacant?
1129
00:37:15,137 --> 00:37:16,034
This was vacant.
1130
00:37:16,068 --> 00:37:17,620
So just right here?
1131
00:37:17,655 --> 00:37:18,517
The body was found here.
1132
00:37:18,551 --> 00:37:19,620
Can you describe what
1133
00:37:19,655 --> 00:37:21,655
happened to her
how she was I mean,
1134
00:37:21,689 --> 00:37:23,517
besides being laid out,
1135
00:37:23,551 --> 00:37:25,034
washed, and very pale.
1136
00:37:25,068 --> 00:37:27,689
She had been
grotesquely mutilated.
1137
00:37:27,724 --> 00:37:29,689
Her mouth had been slashed.
1138
00:37:29,724 --> 00:37:33,448
There was mutilation
to her breasts.
1139
00:37:33,482 --> 00:37:35,655
There was a chunk
out of her thigh.
1140
00:37:35,689 --> 00:37:37,655
A lot of violence directed
1141
00:37:37,689 --> 00:37:39,137
at her personally.
1142
00:37:39,172 --> 00:37:41,103
There wasn't just I'm not just
1143
00:37:41,137 --> 00:37:43,655
violating a woman it's like
1144
00:37:43,689 --> 00:37:45,344
I'm violating Elizabeth Short.
1145
00:37:45,379 --> 00:37:46,620
Somebody she knew.
1146
00:37:46,655 --> 00:37:48,103
Mutilation is
not consistent with
1147
00:37:48,137 --> 00:37:50,206
the murders that Ed
was convicted for,
1148
00:37:50,241 --> 00:37:52,275
and I'm not seeing
the connection here.
1149
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:53,034
You know,
1150
00:37:53,068 --> 00:37:54,034
I feel it probably was
1151
00:37:54,068 --> 00:37:55,586
personal when you think about
1152
00:37:55,620 --> 00:37:57,137
if Ed Edwards is the man.
1153
00:37:57,172 --> 00:37:59,034
Honestly, I don't see how any
1154
00:37:59,068 --> 00:38:01,000
teenager is gonna have
1155
00:38:01,034 --> 00:38:02,931
the sophistication
1156
00:38:02,965 --> 00:38:05,034
to do the Black Dahlia case.
1157
00:38:05,068 --> 00:38:06,551
According to the autopsy surgeon
1158
00:38:06,586 --> 00:38:08,137
it was a fine piece of surgery,
1159
00:38:08,172 --> 00:38:08,931
and I just don't see
1160
00:38:08,965 --> 00:38:10,068
any teenager doing that.
1161
00:38:10,103 --> 00:38:11,034
I know, it's hard to
1162
00:38:11,068 --> 00:38:12,206
imagine a 13-1/2-year-old
1163
00:38:12,241 --> 00:38:13,206
committing crimes like this.
1164
00:38:13,241 --> 00:38:16,172
Maybe that's why
it's not solved.
1165
00:38:16,206 --> 00:38:18,172
Well, that's one reason.
1166
00:38:18,206 --> 00:38:19,251
Larry Harnisch has never seen.
1167
00:38:19,275 --> 00:38:21,034
Ed Edwards's psych evaluations,
1168
00:38:21,068 --> 00:38:23,379
and he would see by reading them
1169
00:38:23,413 --> 00:38:25,758
that Ed had propensity
for violence
1170
00:38:25,793 --> 00:38:27,379
when he was 13 years old.
1171
00:38:27,413 --> 00:38:29,482
We can agree to disagree.
1172
00:38:31,379 --> 00:38:32,931
He was fully
capable of murdering
1173
00:38:32,965 --> 00:38:34,344
Elizabeth Short.
1174
00:38:34,379 --> 00:38:36,965
We got our asses handed to us.
1175
00:38:38,068 --> 00:38:39,551
Hello, ass delivery service.
1176
00:38:39,586 --> 00:38:42,827
Here's your ass, thanks John.
1177
00:38:42,862 --> 00:38:45,068
It's official, I need
a break from John.
1178
00:38:45,103 --> 00:38:47,344
Just take a break
from crime scenes,
1179
00:38:47,379 --> 00:38:50,379
and theories, and
all of that stuff.
1180
00:38:54,344 --> 00:38:55,413
Dad.
1181
00:38:58,793 --> 00:39:00,310
Not much.
1182
00:39:00,344 --> 00:39:02,862
Shit, I haven't
seen you in a month.
1183
00:39:02,896 --> 00:39:04,689
I know.
1184
00:39:06,068 --> 00:39:07,413
How you doing, dad?
1185
00:39:07,448 --> 00:39:09,137
I'm doing pretty good.
1186
00:39:09,172 --> 00:39:10,965
I would say that
it was pretty tough
1187
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,034
putting up with
Wayne the first week.
1188
00:39:17,620 --> 00:39:20,172
He's a lot like his grandfather.
1189
00:39:21,206 --> 00:39:22,724
That isn't nice, but it's true,
1190
00:39:22,758 --> 00:39:25,275
I mean, just control wise.
1191
00:39:25,310 --> 00:39:26,275
You always like
1192
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:27,655
being in control.
1193
00:39:34,724 --> 00:39:35,896
You know, I love you.
1194
00:39:35,931 --> 00:39:38,000
I love you, too.
1195
00:39:43,517 --> 00:39:44,517
I miss you.
1196
00:39:47,655 --> 00:39:49,275
I miss you, too.
1197
00:39:53,448 --> 00:39:54,586
Just have to get beat up on
1198
00:39:54,620 --> 00:39:55,758
all the time.
1199
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,655
I'm a hated man,
I'm a hated man.
1200
00:40:03,689 --> 00:40:04,655
No, you're not.
1201
00:40:04,689 --> 00:40:05,965
I know.
1202
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:09,379
Are you gonna be all right, dad?
1203
00:40:11,310 --> 00:40:13,206
Yeah, I think I'm gonna be okay.
1204
00:40:13,241 --> 00:40:14,586
When I get back
1205
00:40:16,241 --> 00:40:17,517
I'll call you.
1206
00:40:17,551 --> 00:40:19,793
Don't be stupid out there.
1207
00:40:19,827 --> 00:40:21,620
I won't, I'll be safe.
1208
00:40:21,655 --> 00:40:23,034
I ain't gonna do anything dumb.
1209
00:40:23,068 --> 00:40:23,827
All right.
1210
00:40:23,862 --> 00:40:24,931
Bye-bye.
1211
00:40:24,965 --> 00:40:26,620
Bye.
1212
00:40:26,655 --> 00:40:27,620
The further I dive
1213
00:40:27,655 --> 00:40:28,758
into the investigation
1214
00:40:28,793 --> 00:40:30,862
of Ed the more obsessed I get,
1215
00:40:30,896 --> 00:40:32,275
and the more I isolate
1216
00:40:32,310 --> 00:40:33,931
myself from society.
1217
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:38,620
How does it feel to point
1218
00:40:38,655 --> 00:40:40,000
a shotgun at somebody,
1219
00:40:40,034 --> 00:40:41,758
and pull the trigger?
1220
00:40:41,793 --> 00:40:44,862
What were your
thoughts at that time?
1221
00:40:46,172 --> 00:40:47,172
It was dark.
1222
00:40:47,206 --> 00:40:48,275
She did not recognize me.
1223
00:40:48,310 --> 00:40:49,689
I know she didn't.
1224
00:40:51,034 --> 00:40:52,793
She started to run,
1225
00:40:52,827 --> 00:40:55,448
and then I shot her in the head
1226
00:40:55,482 --> 00:40:57,965
had been separated
from the body.
1227
00:40:58,000 --> 00:40:59,793
There was no pleading.
1228
00:41:20,793 --> 00:41:24,793
Now turn left.83126