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Chief Justice John Roberts:
We'll hear argument next today:
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Case 17-75-05,
Madison vs. Alabama.
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Mr. Stevenson.
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Bryan Stevenson:
Mr. Chief Justice,
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may it please the court,
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it's undisputed
that Vernon Madison
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now sits on
Alabama's death row,
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unable to fully orient
to time and place.
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The authority
to execute someone
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who is not an immediate threat
is an awesome power.
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And that power
has to be utilized fairly,
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reliably, and humanely.
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Bryan Stevenson ( voiceover ):
For most of my career,
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I've provided
legal representation
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to people on death row.
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I've argued a bunch of cases
before the United States
Supreme Court,
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and each time I go, I stand
there in front of the court...
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I read what it says
about equal justice under law.
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- All right,
thank you all very much.
- Reporter: Thank you.
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Stevenson:
I have to believe that
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to make sense out of what I do.
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I've been thinking a lot
recently about an incident
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that took place
when I was a little boy.
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My mom saved up enough money
for my sister and I
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to get on a church bus trip
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to the new Disney World
that had just opened up.
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I remember being
so excited about it,
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because not only were we going
to go to Disney World,
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we would be staying in a hotel,
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and the hotel
would have a swimming pool.
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And my sister and I had never
been in a real swimming pool.
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As we pulled into the hotel,
my sister started squealing.
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As soon as the bus stopped
she grabbed me,
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and we went streaking over
to this pool.
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I grabbed her hand
and we jumped high in the air
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and we landed in that pool,
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and it was as glorious as I had
imagined it would be.
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It was just unbelievable.
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And we were having such fun,
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and then I realized that chaos
had broken out around us.
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White parents were frantically
running into the water,
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snatching their children
violently out of the pool,
and I was looking at my sister,
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I was looking,
trying to figure out,
what is going on?
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Finally, there was one
little boy left in the pool,
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and this big guy came
and he snatched him by the arm
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and lifted him out of the water
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and the little boy started
crying hysterically.
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I turned to that white man
and I said, "What's wrong?"
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And he gave me this look,
and he said,
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"You're wrong, nigger."
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We got out of the pool
and I ran to my mom.
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And when I told her
what the man said,
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she looked at me and she said,
"You get back in that pool."
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She said, "Don't you let those
people run you from that pool."
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What I remember most vividly
from that trip
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is getting back in the pool
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and standing in the corner
of the pool
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holding my sister's hand
and desperately trying
not to cry.
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What do you do with a memory
like that?
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I still remember that,
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and the question becomes:
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Do the white kids
remember the day
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they were forced out
of the pool by their parents
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because two black kids
got into the water?
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Memory is powerful,
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it is a powerful force
in the way a society evolves.
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We have a constitution that
talks about equality, liberty,
and justice for all,
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and for decades, for centuries,
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we tolerated enslavement
of other human beings.
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We tolerated abuse
and violence against people.
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We tolerated bigotry
and discrimination.
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And in thinking about
what it would take
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to move this court
and this country
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to a place of greater resolve
when it comes to eliminating
bias and discrimination,
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it became clear to me that
we haven't really talked much
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about the legacy
of racial bias.
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I think there's
a kind of smog in the air
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that's created by the history
of slavery and lynching
and segregation,
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and I don't think
we're going to get healthy,
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I don't think we can be free...
until we address this problem.
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But to get there,
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we're going to have to be
willing to tell the truth.
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( bell tolling )
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Bryan Stevenson:
You know, I was just
going through my files
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a couple of days ago,
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and I actually had this pad
that had notes
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of an interview I did
with Rosa Parks.
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I had the great privilege of
knowing Rosa Parks when I was--
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when I moved to Montgomery
in the 1980s,
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as a young lawyer I met
an extraordinary woman
who was the architect,
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really, of
the Montgomery bus boycott,
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she was an amazing person,
her name was Johnnie Carr.
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And Johnnie Carr was a force
to be reckoned with.
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And when I moved to Montgomery,
Ms. Carr called me up
and she said, "Bryan,
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I understand
you're a young lawyer
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and you've just moved to town."
I said, "Yes, I am."
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She said, "When I call you up
and ask you to do something,
what you're going to do
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- is you're going to say,
"Yes, ma'am.'"
- ( laughter )
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One day
she called me up and said,
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"Bryan, I want to tell you,
Ms. Parks is coming
back to town,
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so we're going to get together
and we're going to talk.
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Do you want to come over
and listen?"
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I said, "Oh, yes, ma'am."
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And I listened to these women
talk for two hours.
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They weren't talking about
the things they had done,
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they were talking about
the things they were still
going to do.
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And finally, after two hours,
Ms. Parks turned to me,
she said, "Now, Bryan,
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tell me about
the Equal Justice Initiative.
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Tell me what
you're trying to do."
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And I looked at Ms. Carr to see
if I had permission to speak,
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and she nodded, and so
I gave her my whole rap.
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I said, "Ms. Parks,
we're trying to end
the death penalty,
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we're trying to do something
about racial bias, we're trying
to do something about the poor,
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we're trying to do something
about conditions
of confinement."
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When I finished,
she looked at me
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and she said, "Mm-mm-mm."
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She said, "That's going to
make you tired, tired, tired."
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( laughter )
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And Ms. Carr leaned forward
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and she put her finger
in my face and she said,
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"That's why you've got
to be brave, brave, brave."
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Stevenson:
In 1989, we set up this project
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here in Montgomery, Alabama,
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to provide legal services
to poor people,
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incarcerated people,
condemned people on death row.
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Alabama doesn't have
a public defender system,
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and there were just a lot
of people desperate for help.
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Randy Susskind:
Alabama has the highest
death sentencing rate
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in the country, per capita.
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And I think, you know,
from the very beginning,
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Bryan's sense was, we should do
as many cases as possible.
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Stevenson:
I think of
a wrongful conviction
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as any conviction where the law
has not been followed,
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where there have been
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illegal practices or policies.
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It doesn't mean that
the person is innocent.
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We represent a lot of people
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who did the things
they were accused of,
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but I think you can be
properly convicted
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and unfairly sentenced.
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We're gonna start moving
because of limited time...
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Sia Sanneh:
I think in law school
I conceived of myself as
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becoming a great lawyer
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and winning cases that
get people out of prison,
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and that is a huge part
of what we do.
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Stevenson:
So I just wanted
to get some reaction
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to that idea, make sure we were
comfortable with that.
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Sanneh:
But I think you have
to be more than a lawyer
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in the sort of technical sense.
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Stevenson:
I'd never met a lawyer-- ever--
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until I got to law school,
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and my time in law school
was frustrating
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because I didn't meet lawyers
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who seemed to represent
something I wanted to do.
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And I tried to rationalize
accepting a career as a lawyer
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that I knew was not going
to be fulfilling.
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It was frankly
in the midst of that
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that I went to Atlanta, Georgia,
and spent a month
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with the Southern Prisoners
Defense Committee,
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and for the first time
I met a lawyer
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who seemed to represent
something that excited me.
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I do think that
the issue before us
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is how the death penalty
works in practice.
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And the fact of the matter is,
the death penalty--
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and I practice in the Death Belt
states of the South--
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and the evidence is undeniable
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that the death penalty
is a result of race,
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poverty, politics,
and the passions of the moment.
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One thing
that's immediately apparent
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with the death penalty
in the South
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is that it's about
race and place.
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You see lots of changes
in the deep South,
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but when you go
to the courthouse,
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nothing has changed--
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it's like we're back
in 1940 or 1950.
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The judge is white,
the prosecutors are white,
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the court appointed lawyers
are white.
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And even in communities
that have
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fairly substantial
African American populations,
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the jury will be all white.
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So the only person of color
in the front of the courtroom
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is the person on trial.
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Anthony Ray Hinton:
You see that smoke comin'
outta there, boy?
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- Man: Yeah.
- Whoo!
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Woman:
How's it lookin', Ray?
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Hinton:
Oh, lookin' purty.
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The secret to a cookout...
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always have you
a taste-master.
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That's my taste-master
right there.
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He gonna let me know
if it's right.
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Oh, wait till you taste it!
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It's good, Mr. Hinton,
right on time.
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Hinton:
To me, life was good.
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Not a care in the world,
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just trying
to get up every morning
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and put one foot forward
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and do the best you can
and just enjoy life.
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It was just good to be who I was
at that particular time,
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00:11:25,834 --> 00:11:27,417
at least that's what I thought.
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I found myself in a situation
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that I never should
have been in.
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I was 29 years old.
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Woke up, like any morning,
ate breakfast,
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and my mom asked me to go
out there and cut that grass.
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About 15 to 20 minutes
into cutting the grass,
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I just happened to look up
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and there stood
two white gentlemen
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at the edge of the back porch.
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I cut the lawnmower off
and I said, "Can I help you?"
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And one of them replied,
"We are detectives
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from the Birmingham
Police Department."
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00:12:12,041 --> 00:12:14,208
And I said, "OK,
how can I help you?"
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00:12:14,291 --> 00:12:17,125
And he said, "Well, we have
a warrant for your arrest."
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On our way to jail,
the detective turned around
and asked me,
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00:12:23,375 --> 00:12:27,041
"Anthony, do you own a pistol?"
And I said, "No."
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He said, "Do your mother
own a firearm?"
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00:12:29,125 --> 00:12:34,291
I said, "No-- Ah, yes."
I said, "She own an old
.38 Smith & Wesson."
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My mom gave them the pistol.
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00:12:38,583 --> 00:12:41,417
I asked the detective
at least 50 times,
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"Why am I being arrested?"
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Never would respond.
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I asked him again,
for the 51st time,
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"Why am I being arrested?"
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00:12:52,250 --> 00:12:56,250
He said, "You wanna know
why we're arresting you?"
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00:12:56,333 --> 00:13:00,208
He said, "You robbed
a restaurant manager
and you killed him."
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00:13:00,291 --> 00:13:03,458
I said,
"You got the wrong person,
I ain't done none of that."
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00:13:05,083 --> 00:13:07,917
He said, "Let me tell you
something right now.
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00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,000
I don't care whether
you did or didn't do it.
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00:13:11,083 --> 00:13:14,125
There's five things
that're gonna convict you."
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He said,
"Number one, you're black.
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Number two, a white man
is gonna say you shot him.
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00:13:20,166 --> 00:13:22,709
Number three, you're gonna have
a white prosecutor.
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00:13:22,792 --> 00:13:25,291
Number four, you're gonna
have a white judge.
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00:13:25,375 --> 00:13:29,333
And number five, you're gonna
have an all-white jury."
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00:13:29,417 --> 00:13:32,542
And he said,
"Do you know what that spells?
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00:13:34,041 --> 00:13:37,000
'Conviction.'"
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00:13:37,083 --> 00:13:40,000
And sure enough,
they find me guilty.
238
00:13:40,083 --> 00:13:42,625
The judge said,
"Anthony Ray Hinton,
239
00:13:42,709 --> 00:13:47,834
it is the order of this court
that I sentence you to death.
240
00:13:47,917 --> 00:13:51,041
May God have mercy
on your soul."
241
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:56,500
Tom Brokaw:
The Supreme Court
242
00:13:56,583 --> 00:13:58,500
was urged today to strike down
the death penalty
243
00:13:58,583 --> 00:14:01,000
because it is applied unequally
to black and white.
244
00:14:01,083 --> 00:14:03,792
Carl Stern ( voice-over ):
It was eight years ago
that arrests were made
245
00:14:03,875 --> 00:14:05,625
for the murder
of a white Atlanta policeman
246
00:14:05,709 --> 00:14:07,709
during a hold-up
at a furniture store.
247
00:14:07,792 --> 00:14:10,542
The man convicted
of pulling the trigger
was Warren McCleskey;
248
00:14:10,625 --> 00:14:13,250
he was sentenced to die
in Georgia's electric chair.
249
00:14:13,333 --> 00:14:15,333
The appeal was based
on death row studies
250
00:14:15,417 --> 00:14:17,000
showing that those
who kill whites
251
00:14:17,083 --> 00:14:19,750
are 11 times more likely
to be sentenced to die
252
00:14:19,834 --> 00:14:22,000
than those who kill blacks.
253
00:14:22,083 --> 00:14:24,291
William H. Rehnquist:
We'll hear arguments
first this morning
254
00:14:24,375 --> 00:14:29,417
in number 84-68-11,
Warren McCleskey
vs. Ralph Kemp.
255
00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:31,375
Stevenson:
Once I got involved
256
00:14:31,458 --> 00:14:33,500
in representing people
on death row,
257
00:14:33,583 --> 00:14:36,375
it was McCleskey
that began to illuminate
258
00:14:36,458 --> 00:14:38,917
the ways in which
our history of racial inequality
259
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,375
was limiting the commitment
of the rule of law
260
00:14:42,458 --> 00:14:45,208
and disadvantaging
people of color.
261
00:14:45,291 --> 00:14:50,291
What was surprising
is that the United States
Supreme Court
262
00:14:50,375 --> 00:14:53,625
didn't question the data.
263
00:14:53,709 --> 00:14:56,750
The court said,
"Even though we believe you,
264
00:14:56,834 --> 00:14:59,250
we're not going to
strike down the death penalty
265
00:14:59,333 --> 00:15:03,291
because a certain amount
of bias in the administration
of the death penalty
266
00:15:03,375 --> 00:15:06,917
is, in our opinion,
quote, 'inevitable.'"
267
00:15:08,375 --> 00:15:11,750
And as a young lawyer
working on that case,
268
00:15:11,834 --> 00:15:15,291
that was a real crisis.
269
00:15:15,375 --> 00:15:21,083
It felt like the court
was abandoning the commitment
to equal justice,
270
00:15:21,166 --> 00:15:26,083
it was abandoning
the commitment
to racial equality.
271
00:15:26,166 --> 00:15:28,542
Susan Boleyn:
I believe that there is
272
00:15:28,625 --> 00:15:30,500
a presumption, at least
in Southern states,
273
00:15:30,583 --> 00:15:34,125
that Georgia prosecutors,
juries and district attorneys
274
00:15:34,208 --> 00:15:37,417
cannot fairly and impartially
administer the death penalty.
275
00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:40,250
And I'd like to tell you
that it's not 1950 anymore,
276
00:15:40,333 --> 00:15:43,583
we can fairly and impartially
administer the laws
277
00:15:43,667 --> 00:15:45,917
as narrowly drawn
under our constitution.
278
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,000
Michael Kinsley:
Mr. Stevenson,
do you have a question?
279
00:15:48,083 --> 00:15:51,208
What has changed
that allows you
to support or assert
280
00:15:51,291 --> 00:15:52,875
that the death penalty
is being fairly applied now
281
00:15:52,959 --> 00:15:55,458
in ways that it wasn't
being applied in 1950?
282
00:15:55,542 --> 00:15:57,458
First of all,
as I'm sure you know,
Mr. Stevenson,
283
00:15:57,542 --> 00:16:00,792
we have more white persons
incarcerated on death row
for murders
284
00:16:00,875 --> 00:16:02,458
than we do
for black people. So--
285
00:16:02,542 --> 00:16:05,125
How does that disprove
that race is not a factor?
286
00:16:05,208 --> 00:16:08,375
The bottom line is that there
are only 27% of the black--
287
00:16:08,458 --> 00:16:10,250
of the population of Georgia
is black.
288
00:16:10,333 --> 00:16:12,875
Yet 75% of the people that
have been executed in that state
289
00:16:12,959 --> 00:16:16,750
are African American,
that's 25% more than the people
who committed murders,
290
00:16:16,834 --> 00:16:19,166
and it's 50% more than the
people who exist in that state.
291
00:16:19,250 --> 00:16:21,458
So do you want an answer
to your question or do you want
to tell me your statistics?
292
00:16:21,542 --> 00:16:23,583
I want an answer to a question,
but I want an honest answer.
293
00:16:23,667 --> 00:16:25,834
Your point of view
is that no person
294
00:16:25,917 --> 00:16:27,500
who is a black person in Georgia
295
00:16:27,583 --> 00:16:29,291
can get a fair trial,
according to you.
296
00:16:29,375 --> 00:16:31,333
You want to go
into generalized statistics
297
00:16:31,417 --> 00:16:33,291
because you cannot
face the fact as an attorney
298
00:16:33,375 --> 00:16:36,375
that there are people
who should be held accountable
of their actions
299
00:16:36,458 --> 00:16:38,375
regardless of their race.
300
00:16:38,458 --> 00:16:41,125
( spectators applauding )
301
00:16:41,208 --> 00:16:42,750
Stevenson:
The court in McCleskey
302
00:16:42,834 --> 00:16:45,333
said that he failed
because he didn't prove
303
00:16:45,417 --> 00:16:47,083
intentional discrimination
on the part
304
00:16:47,166 --> 00:16:49,458
of each of the decision-makers
in his case.
305
00:16:49,542 --> 00:16:51,875
And we started thinking
about that. It was like,
well, how do you prove that?
306
00:16:51,959 --> 00:16:56,667
Well, we need to start
asking questions about
the decision-makers.
307
00:16:56,750 --> 00:16:58,792
So we started
asking questions of judges,
308
00:16:58,875 --> 00:17:00,333
"Have you ever used the N-word?
309
00:17:00,417 --> 00:17:02,625
Have you ever hired people
of color to be clerks?
310
00:17:02,709 --> 00:17:06,625
Did you pull your kids
out of the schools
when integration came?"
311
00:17:06,709 --> 00:17:09,542
And the same questions were
appropriate for the prosecutor.
312
00:17:09,625 --> 00:17:12,917
And no one wanted
to answer those questions.
313
00:17:14,709 --> 00:17:16,709
I was persuaded, and still am,
314
00:17:16,792 --> 00:17:19,667
that the criminal justice
system revealed the problems
315
00:17:19,750 --> 00:17:22,583
of our history of bias against
the poor and people of color
316
00:17:22,667 --> 00:17:25,041
unlike few systems did.
317
00:17:25,125 --> 00:17:26,709
Stevenson ( in conference ):
In the state of Georgia,
318
00:17:26,792 --> 00:17:28,417
when a black defendant
is sentenced to death
319
00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:30,208
and four of the twelve jurors
who sentenced him
320
00:17:30,291 --> 00:17:33,000
say that the Ku Klux Klan do
good things in that community,
321
00:17:33,083 --> 00:17:35,875
when that defense lawyer says
that "I believe my client
is genetically predisposed
322
00:17:35,959 --> 00:17:39,208
to commit violent crimes,
and that's why I'm comfortable
with his death sentence,"
323
00:17:39,291 --> 00:17:41,834
when the trial judge
and the prosecutor refer
to that black defendant
324
00:17:41,917 --> 00:17:44,875
as "colored boy"
throughout the trial,
that's racial bias.
325
00:17:44,959 --> 00:17:48,041
Kinsley ( striking gavel ):
OK. And Ms. Boleyn,
would you like to...
326
00:17:48,125 --> 00:17:50,375
Stevenson:
I think of McCleskey
327
00:17:50,458 --> 00:17:53,583
as a critical moment
in the court's relationship
328
00:17:53,667 --> 00:17:56,375
to not only the rule of law
and the Constitution,
329
00:17:56,458 --> 00:17:58,458
but to race.
330
00:17:58,542 --> 00:18:01,000
I had a hard time reconciling
331
00:18:01,083 --> 00:18:03,625
this commitment
to equal justice under law
332
00:18:03,709 --> 00:18:07,291
with this doctrine
of inevitability.
333
00:18:07,375 --> 00:18:09,291
And what that ruling meant
334
00:18:09,375 --> 00:18:14,959
is that not only
was there not going to be
an end to the death penalty...
335
00:18:15,041 --> 00:18:18,667
it meant that Warren McCleskey
would likely be executed.
336
00:18:20,166 --> 00:18:22,417
And I've had some hard moments,
337
00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:25,125
but that stands out.
338
00:18:25,208 --> 00:18:28,500
It created a sort of injury.
339
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:32,083
An execution date
was scheduled,
340
00:18:32,166 --> 00:18:35,000
and Warren McCleskey
was executed.
341
00:18:41,083 --> 00:18:44,875
We are haunted, in America,
342
00:18:44,959 --> 00:18:47,917
by our history
of racial inequality.
343
00:18:50,917 --> 00:18:52,959
For me, it actually begins
344
00:18:53,041 --> 00:18:57,709
with the fact that we're
a post-genocide society.
345
00:18:57,792 --> 00:19:02,166
I think what happened
to native people
on this continent
346
00:19:02,250 --> 00:19:04,792
was a genocide.
347
00:19:04,875 --> 00:19:08,250
We forced these communities
from land
348
00:19:08,333 --> 00:19:10,667
through war and violence.
349
00:19:10,750 --> 00:19:13,125
We didn't call it a genocide
because we said,
350
00:19:13,208 --> 00:19:15,959
"No, these native people
are different.
351
00:19:16,041 --> 00:19:18,125
They're a different race."
352
00:19:18,208 --> 00:19:21,417
And we used this narrative
of racial difference
353
00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:25,083
to justify the abuse,
the exploitation,
354
00:19:25,166 --> 00:19:28,959
the destruction
of these communities.
355
00:19:29,041 --> 00:19:31,208
And that narrative
of racial difference
356
00:19:31,291 --> 00:19:36,500
is what then made slavery
in America so problematic.
357
00:19:36,583 --> 00:19:39,500
And you cannot understand
slavery in America
358
00:19:39,583 --> 00:19:43,834
without understanding
the role that the United States
Supreme Court played
359
00:19:43,917 --> 00:19:46,834
in making slavery acceptable,
360
00:19:46,917 --> 00:19:49,375
making slavery moral,
361
00:19:49,458 --> 00:19:52,250
making slavery legal.
362
00:19:54,083 --> 00:19:55,792
Slave owners
in the American South
363
00:19:55,875 --> 00:19:58,458
wanted to feel like
they were moral people.
364
00:19:58,542 --> 00:20:00,917
They were Christians.
365
00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:04,959
And to feel that and still
be owning other people,
366
00:20:05,041 --> 00:20:09,792
they had to say
that black people are different
than white people.
367
00:20:09,875 --> 00:20:12,542
And that was ratified
by the Supreme Court
368
00:20:12,625 --> 00:20:15,083
in the Dred Scott decision.
369
00:20:15,166 --> 00:20:17,834
The Supreme Court says in 1857,
370
00:20:17,917 --> 00:20:21,875
"Look, black people
are an inferior race.
371
00:20:21,959 --> 00:20:24,166
They're not like white people.
372
00:20:24,250 --> 00:20:26,250
They're three-fifths human.
373
00:20:26,333 --> 00:20:28,959
And because of that,
they are not citizens.
374
00:20:29,041 --> 00:20:31,583
They are not protected
by the Constitution."
375
00:20:33,291 --> 00:20:34,792
And that decision
376
00:20:34,875 --> 00:20:38,333
not only allowed slavery
to persist,
377
00:20:38,417 --> 00:20:40,875
but it created
a racial hierarchy.
378
00:20:40,959 --> 00:20:44,542
It introduced--
formally, in the law --
379
00:20:44,625 --> 00:20:47,500
this idea of white supremacy,
380
00:20:47,583 --> 00:20:51,208
this narrative
of racial difference.
381
00:20:51,291 --> 00:20:55,083
We then have this
bloody Civil War.
382
00:20:55,166 --> 00:20:58,417
The North prevails,
383
00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:00,041
we pass the 13th Amendment,
384
00:21:00,125 --> 00:21:03,333
which ends involuntary
servitude and forced labor.
385
00:21:03,417 --> 00:21:06,166
We pass the 14th Amendment,
which is supposed to
provide equal protection.
386
00:21:06,250 --> 00:21:10,583
We pass the 15th Amendment,
which is supposed to give
people the right to vote.
387
00:21:10,667 --> 00:21:14,834
And the reaction to that,
in many parts of this country,
was violent.
388
00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:21,542
In 1873, in Colfax, Louisiana,
389
00:21:21,625 --> 00:21:25,083
150 black people are murdered
by a white mob
390
00:21:25,166 --> 00:21:30,250
because they were protesting
their inability to be
politically represented.
391
00:21:30,333 --> 00:21:34,041
Congress says, "You know,
we can't allow that kind
of violence,
392
00:21:34,125 --> 00:21:38,291
we're going to have our federal
prosecutors prosecute those
people for that violence,"
393
00:21:38,375 --> 00:21:40,792
and white people are convicted.
394
00:21:40,875 --> 00:21:42,750
And the United States
Supreme Court says,
395
00:21:42,834 --> 00:21:45,291
"No, Congress doesn't
have the authority
396
00:21:45,375 --> 00:21:48,208
to prevent that kind
of violent intimidation.
397
00:21:48,291 --> 00:21:50,000
States have rights,
398
00:21:50,083 --> 00:21:53,083
and the federal government
can't impinge on those rights.
399
00:21:53,166 --> 00:21:55,458
So, this era, I think,
400
00:21:55,542 --> 00:21:58,583
does something significant
to the credibility,
401
00:21:58,667 --> 00:22:02,542
the integrity of
the United States Supreme Court.
402
00:22:03,917 --> 00:22:06,917
It became a tool for sustaining
403
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,792
racial violence,
white supremacy,
404
00:22:09,875 --> 00:22:12,875
and exploitation
of black people.
405
00:22:14,875 --> 00:22:17,750
Man:
We have dedicated ourselves
firmly to the belief
406
00:22:17,834 --> 00:22:20,333
that the best interests
of both races
407
00:22:20,417 --> 00:22:23,583
may be served
by segregated schools.
408
00:22:29,125 --> 00:22:34,250
Stevenson:
When the 1940s and '50s
come along
409
00:22:34,333 --> 00:22:38,208
and black people begin
organizing and protesting
and challenging
410
00:22:38,291 --> 00:22:43,250
this legal architecture of
bigotry and discrimination,
411
00:22:43,333 --> 00:22:47,917
the states used the same
rhetoric they'd been using
since the Civil War.
412
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,000
There's nothing
in the Constitution
of the United States
413
00:22:51,083 --> 00:22:53,500
that says anything about
education or schools.
414
00:22:53,583 --> 00:22:55,208
The states authorize 'em
415
00:22:55,291 --> 00:22:58,417
and the states support 'em
and the states control 'em.
416
00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:02,834
Stevenson:
States say, "We can treat black
people any way we want to,
417
00:23:02,917 --> 00:23:05,208
and the federal government
can't do anything about it
418
00:23:05,291 --> 00:23:07,166
because we have states' rights."
419
00:23:07,250 --> 00:23:09,375
And that narrative
was given to them
420
00:23:09,458 --> 00:23:11,542
by the United States
Supreme Court.
421
00:23:11,625 --> 00:23:13,000
Thurgood Marshall:
This is a part
422
00:23:13,083 --> 00:23:14,709
of the group of lawyers
423
00:23:14,792 --> 00:23:16,875
from all sections of the country
424
00:23:16,959 --> 00:23:19,125
who are here
in the Supreme Court
425
00:23:19,208 --> 00:23:22,834
for the purpose of arguing
the school segregation cases.
426
00:23:22,917 --> 00:23:25,417
We believe that
the proper place
427
00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:28,625
for the issue of segregation
is in a court.
428
00:23:30,834 --> 00:23:34,333
Stevenson:
When Brown vs. Board
of Education is decided,
429
00:23:34,417 --> 00:23:36,583
when the court makes this ruling
430
00:23:36,667 --> 00:23:39,417
that segregation in education
is unconstitutional,
431
00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:42,083
it's a watershed moment.
432
00:23:42,166 --> 00:23:46,125
It was finally the Court
not yielding to bigotry
433
00:23:46,208 --> 00:23:49,709
and bias and exclusion
and discrimination.
434
00:23:51,333 --> 00:23:54,166
And so, for them to declare
in 1987,
435
00:23:54,250 --> 00:23:56,125
in McCleskey vs. Kemp,
436
00:23:56,208 --> 00:23:58,083
that they were retreating,
437
00:23:58,166 --> 00:24:01,333
that these problems are,
quote, "inevitable,"
438
00:24:01,417 --> 00:24:04,542
it was heartbreaking.
439
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:07,750
I went to law school
440
00:24:07,834 --> 00:24:11,542
because I'm a product of
Brown vs. Board of Education.
441
00:24:11,625 --> 00:24:15,208
I started my education
in a colored school.
442
00:24:15,291 --> 00:24:20,208
It was that commitment
from lawyers to come into
communities like mine
443
00:24:20,333 --> 00:24:23,208
that made it possible
for me to go to a high school
444
00:24:23,291 --> 00:24:25,041
and to get to college.
445
00:24:28,667 --> 00:24:30,709
( rain pattering )
446
00:24:40,542 --> 00:24:43,375
So that's where my grandparents
used to live.
447
00:24:44,875 --> 00:24:47,208
They've fixed it up, actually.
448
00:24:47,291 --> 00:24:51,208
And this is all
kind of the black section
of Georgetown back in here.
449
00:24:52,750 --> 00:24:56,125
This was the segregated school
for black kids.
450
00:24:56,208 --> 00:24:59,458
That was where school ended
when my dad was a kid.
451
00:24:59,542 --> 00:25:03,083
It could take you to the sixth
or eighth grade,
452
00:25:03,166 --> 00:25:06,709
but after that,
there was no more school.
453
00:25:06,750 --> 00:25:10,709
So if you wanted
to go to high school,
you had to leave the county.
454
00:25:10,750 --> 00:25:13,333
And...
455
00:25:13,375 --> 00:25:16,041
this is the little church
I grew up in,
456
00:25:16,125 --> 00:25:18,000
Prospect AME Church.
457
00:25:25,458 --> 00:25:29,875
Stevenson:
My dad had lived with
segregation his whole life,
458
00:25:29,917 --> 00:25:33,041
had been taught to not draw
attention to yourself,
459
00:25:33,125 --> 00:25:36,000
not do anything that's
gonna get you at risk.
460
00:25:36,041 --> 00:25:39,333
It was a coping mechanism
that was necessary
461
00:25:39,417 --> 00:25:42,709
living in the community
where we lived.
462
00:25:42,792 --> 00:25:47,500
My dad was strategic
and tactical.
463
00:25:47,583 --> 00:25:50,083
My mom could be
strategic and tactical too,
464
00:25:50,166 --> 00:25:53,041
but she was also
prepared to react.
465
00:25:53,125 --> 00:25:57,667
And that reaction sometimes
would create some tension.
466
00:25:57,750 --> 00:26:00,417
If you went to the store,
467
00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:02,750
the store clerks
were always white,
468
00:26:02,834 --> 00:26:04,917
and what they would do
in those days is,
469
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,917
the store clerks would
put your change down
on the table.
470
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,917
They wouldn't put it
in your hand, they didn't
want to touch a black person.
471
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,625
She would say,
"That's my money,
you have to give it to me."
472
00:26:16,709 --> 00:26:21,000
And I just think for her,
it was hard to stay silent.
473
00:26:23,917 --> 00:26:26,792
You know, when I went
to law school at Harvard,
474
00:26:26,875 --> 00:26:29,208
I, to be honest, I didn't--
475
00:26:29,291 --> 00:26:31,458
I felt vulnerable.
476
00:26:31,542 --> 00:26:35,709
I worried that
I didn't belong there.
477
00:26:35,792 --> 00:26:38,500
I was around people
who could talk about how,
478
00:26:38,583 --> 00:26:43,959
for three generations,
their family members
had been lawyers or doctors.
479
00:26:44,041 --> 00:26:46,000
And I didn't want anybody
to know
480
00:26:46,083 --> 00:26:48,667
that I started my education
in a colored school.
481
00:26:48,750 --> 00:26:53,375
I didn't want people to know
that my great-grandparents
were enslaved.
482
00:26:53,458 --> 00:26:56,458
But then going to death row,
483
00:26:56,542 --> 00:26:59,041
seeing that struggle
made manifest,
484
00:26:59,125 --> 00:27:02,792
I realized that the things
I had been silent about
485
00:27:02,875 --> 00:27:05,500
are the things that
I should be talking about.
486
00:27:05,583 --> 00:27:10,250
Howard Stevenson:
Bryan, when we've watched him
argue in court--
487
00:27:10,333 --> 00:27:13,917
I took both my sons to watch him
argue at the Supreme Court--
488
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,041
I can see my mother in him.
489
00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:23,291
But my parents didn't always
agree on what Bryan was doing.
490
00:27:23,375 --> 00:27:25,583
You know, "Bryan,
if they did something wrong,
491
00:27:25,667 --> 00:27:27,458
why are you defending them?"
492
00:27:27,542 --> 00:27:30,458
The fear was initially
493
00:27:30,542 --> 00:27:32,750
that when Bryan
started in Montgomery,
494
00:27:32,834 --> 00:27:35,750
they were getting
a lot of bomb threats.
495
00:27:35,834 --> 00:27:40,125
Christy Taylor:
I have the trepidation of
someone trying to harm him.
496
00:27:40,208 --> 00:27:43,083
I feel that in the back
of my spirit,
497
00:27:43,166 --> 00:27:45,166
to be protective of him,
498
00:27:45,250 --> 00:27:47,083
because people don't like
what he has to say
499
00:27:47,166 --> 00:27:48,583
or things that he's done.
500
00:27:50,458 --> 00:27:52,500
Howard:
Bryan's heart for this work
501
00:27:52,583 --> 00:27:55,500
became evident very early on.
502
00:27:55,583 --> 00:27:58,792
My father wanted him
to make a lot of money.
503
00:27:58,875 --> 00:28:01,000
I said, "Dad I don't think
he's going to have
that kind of a job.
504
00:28:01,083 --> 00:28:02,542
( laughing )
I mean, you know,
505
00:28:02,625 --> 00:28:05,959
Bryan's not going to be
that kind of lawyer."
506
00:28:08,166 --> 00:28:09,834
But they came around because
507
00:28:09,917 --> 00:28:13,250
when they would meet the folks
that he was working with
508
00:28:13,333 --> 00:28:19,291
and see how their life changed,
that looked more like church.
509
00:28:19,375 --> 00:28:21,917
They were familiar with that.
510
00:28:30,208 --> 00:28:33,500
- Hello!
- Rev. Janet Maull-Martin:
Hi, Bryan, how are you?
511
00:28:33,583 --> 00:28:37,333
- I'm well, how are you?
- I am well, it's so good
to see you.
512
00:28:37,417 --> 00:28:39,583
Great
to see you too.
513
00:28:39,667 --> 00:28:42,083
I used to play
testimonial services
514
00:28:42,166 --> 00:28:43,709
when I was a little tiny,
515
00:28:43,792 --> 00:28:45,458
they didn't trust me
for the main service yet,
516
00:28:45,542 --> 00:28:46,917
so I would sit up there,
517
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,625
and they'd say,
"You can play testimonial."
518
00:28:48,709 --> 00:28:50,959
And people would stand up
in these pews
519
00:28:51,041 --> 00:28:52,959
and they would give
their testimonies,
520
00:28:53,041 --> 00:28:54,792
and I talk about this
all the time.
521
00:28:54,875 --> 00:28:56,250
Lot of times
they'd be talking about
522
00:28:56,333 --> 00:28:58,250
how difficult
things had been.
523
00:28:58,333 --> 00:29:01,583
They'd talk about how
they didn't have enough food
to feed their families
524
00:29:01,667 --> 00:29:03,333
or something hard
had happened.
525
00:29:03,417 --> 00:29:05,083
But at the end of it
they'd start singing
526
00:29:05,166 --> 00:29:07,000
"But I Wouldn't Take Nothin'
For My Journey Now."
527
00:29:07,083 --> 00:29:10,208
You know, and I'd catch that key
and things would just pick up.
528
00:29:10,291 --> 00:29:13,125
And it was so formative
529
00:29:13,208 --> 00:29:16,125
for a lot of what
I'm trying to do now.
530
00:29:16,208 --> 00:29:18,000
And so this is
a precious place to me,
531
00:29:18,083 --> 00:29:19,208
it's a special place.
532
00:29:19,291 --> 00:29:21,250
It was a formative place
for all of us,
533
00:29:21,333 --> 00:29:22,583
me and my family,
534
00:29:22,667 --> 00:29:24,875
and so, it's good
to be back in here.
535
00:29:36,166 --> 00:29:38,583
Stephen Bright:
People who have a warrant
that says
536
00:29:38,667 --> 00:29:41,667
at some point you will be
strapped down and put to death,
537
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:45,125
those people have
the most compelling need
for legal assistance
538
00:29:45,208 --> 00:29:48,208
of anybody in our society.
539
00:29:48,291 --> 00:29:51,083
Not only is the work
to represent them,
540
00:29:51,166 --> 00:29:52,792
but to also minister
to that person,
541
00:29:52,875 --> 00:29:54,500
to comfort that person,
542
00:29:54,583 --> 00:29:57,959
to support that person
and that person's family.
543
00:29:58,041 --> 00:30:02,291
We are gonna be able
to get some people
over to safe passage,
544
00:30:02,375 --> 00:30:06,250
but there are gonna be
other people that
that's not gonna happen.
545
00:30:11,667 --> 00:30:14,667
Hinton:
On December the 16th, 1986,
546
00:30:14,750 --> 00:30:18,792
they transported me to
Holman Correctional Facility
547
00:30:18,875 --> 00:30:20,792
where they house
death row inmates.
548
00:30:22,417 --> 00:30:24,500
When I got convicted,
549
00:30:24,583 --> 00:30:27,250
the prosecution
ran out that day
550
00:30:27,333 --> 00:30:30,125
and told the media
that the state of Alabama
551
00:30:30,208 --> 00:30:32,000
got the worst killer
552
00:30:32,083 --> 00:30:34,709
that ever walked the streets
in Birmingham
553
00:30:34,792 --> 00:30:36,959
off the streets that night.
554
00:30:37,041 --> 00:30:39,000
Only it wasn't true.
555
00:30:40,875 --> 00:30:42,834
When I got there,
they was in the process
556
00:30:42,917 --> 00:30:46,667
of executing four men.
557
00:30:46,750 --> 00:30:50,125
Thursday night is the night
they execute you.
558
00:30:52,417 --> 00:30:54,750
Never will forget the smell.
559
00:30:56,500 --> 00:30:58,709
And I asked the guard, I said,
560
00:30:58,792 --> 00:31:01,542
"Is there anything
you can give me
561
00:31:01,625 --> 00:31:05,083
to keep me from
smelling that smell?"
562
00:31:06,625 --> 00:31:09,792
And the guard looked at me
and he said, "No...
563
00:31:09,875 --> 00:31:12,709
but you'll get used to it.
564
00:31:12,792 --> 00:31:16,458
And by the way, one day,
565
00:31:16,542 --> 00:31:19,834
somebody will smell
your flesh too."
566
00:31:21,208 --> 00:31:24,500
How can another human being...
567
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:35,000
( expels air )
568
00:31:42,125 --> 00:31:44,917
How can a human being...
569
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,375
tell another person that?
570
00:31:51,125 --> 00:31:56,125
Stevenson:
In many ways, you can say that
the North won the Civil War,
571
00:31:56,208 --> 00:31:59,542
but the South won
the narrative war.
572
00:31:59,625 --> 00:32:02,291
If the urgent narrative
that we're trying to deal with
in this country
573
00:32:02,375 --> 00:32:04,625
is a narrative
of racial difference,
574
00:32:04,709 --> 00:32:08,750
if the narrative
that we have to overcome is
a narrative of white supremacy,
575
00:32:08,834 --> 00:32:11,125
the South prevailed.
576
00:32:11,208 --> 00:32:13,875
And that's what
we were dealing with
577
00:32:13,959 --> 00:32:15,625
at the beginning
of the 20th century,
578
00:32:15,709 --> 00:32:19,417
when we began an era
where white supremacy,
579
00:32:19,500 --> 00:32:21,792
racial subordination,
racial hierarchy,
580
00:32:21,875 --> 00:32:26,875
is going to be enforced
in a new way: lynching.
581
00:32:29,291 --> 00:32:32,208
Thousands of people
pulled out of their homes,
582
00:32:32,291 --> 00:32:34,291
burned alive, mutilated,
583
00:32:34,375 --> 00:32:38,291
tortured, hanged,
shot, drowned,
584
00:32:38,375 --> 00:32:39,834
sometimes in plain view,
585
00:32:39,917 --> 00:32:43,166
in front of
thousands of people.
586
00:32:43,250 --> 00:32:45,583
Sometimes the mob
587
00:32:45,667 --> 00:32:47,500
would drag them through
the black community,
588
00:32:47,583 --> 00:32:50,000
force people
out of their homes
589
00:32:50,083 --> 00:32:53,709
to see the brutalized body
of one of their neighbors,
590
00:32:53,792 --> 00:32:56,458
one of their loved ones.
591
00:32:56,542 --> 00:32:59,834
And oftentimes, a black person
who had been lynched,
592
00:32:59,917 --> 00:33:04,625
their body would be suspended
on a bridge or on a tree.
593
00:33:04,709 --> 00:33:08,500
And family members
couldn't retrieve that body,
594
00:33:08,583 --> 00:33:10,834
sometimes for days.
595
00:33:10,917 --> 00:33:14,625
The sheriff would actually
post someone to make sure
596
00:33:14,709 --> 00:33:19,000
that the body was still there
days later.
597
00:33:19,083 --> 00:33:24,375
It wasn't a secret. It wasn't
something that the Klan did.
598
00:33:24,458 --> 00:33:28,000
The people who perpetrated
these lynchings weren't people
wearing white hoods.
599
00:33:28,083 --> 00:33:30,208
There was no need
to wear a hood.
600
00:33:30,291 --> 00:33:35,208
You could actually pose
with the victim's body.
601
00:33:35,291 --> 00:33:38,458
You could carve their body up
and collect souvenirs.
602
00:33:38,542 --> 00:33:41,750
This was actually
a point of pride.
603
00:33:41,834 --> 00:33:44,625
Everybody was complicit.
604
00:33:44,709 --> 00:33:47,417
And lynchings were
largely taking place
605
00:33:47,500 --> 00:33:50,333
in communities where
there was a functioning
criminal justice system.
606
00:33:50,417 --> 00:33:53,917
But there was this idea
that black people
607
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,917
weren't good enough
to even be criminal defendants.
608
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,125
And black people were lynched,
609
00:34:00,208 --> 00:34:03,041
not just for some accusation
of murder or rape,
610
00:34:03,125 --> 00:34:05,917
they were often lynched because
of some social transgression.
611
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:10,834
Not saying "sir"
to a white person
could get you lynched.
612
00:34:10,917 --> 00:34:13,583
Going to the front door
rather than the back door
613
00:34:13,667 --> 00:34:15,333
could get you lynched.
614
00:34:15,417 --> 00:34:20,667
Interracial romance
was the most incendiary.
615
00:34:22,875 --> 00:34:26,166
It was terrorism
in the most complete sense.
616
00:34:26,250 --> 00:34:31,458
These acts of violence were
intended to terrorize people
into not challenging,
617
00:34:31,542 --> 00:34:35,834
not resisting, not confronting
this racial hierarchy.
618
00:34:37,041 --> 00:34:39,500
And in that sense,
these lynchings
619
00:34:39,583 --> 00:34:42,792
weren't just about
those individuals.
620
00:34:42,875 --> 00:34:46,542
This was about the entire
African American community.
621
00:34:48,709 --> 00:34:53,166
I do think,
for African American families
in the American South,
622
00:34:53,250 --> 00:34:55,834
it was impossible
to not have a story
623
00:34:55,917 --> 00:34:59,333
about the violence and terror.
624
00:35:00,875 --> 00:35:03,625
My grandfather
witnessed a lynching.
625
00:35:03,709 --> 00:35:07,000
He told me about
seeing the mob,
626
00:35:07,083 --> 00:35:09,583
them dragging someone
to a spot,
627
00:35:09,667 --> 00:35:11,542
him running to hide,
628
00:35:11,625 --> 00:35:15,625
him looking through
this little slat in a building
629
00:35:15,709 --> 00:35:18,458
and watching this violence.
630
00:35:18,542 --> 00:35:20,667
The thing
that he would talk about
631
00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:24,250
was knowing
so many of these people,
632
00:35:24,333 --> 00:35:28,417
and that creates this challenge
633
00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:30,750
of how you live in a community
634
00:35:30,834 --> 00:35:33,500
where you have to pretend
to trust people
635
00:35:33,583 --> 00:35:37,959
who you know are capable of
engaging in the kind of terror
636
00:35:38,041 --> 00:35:40,583
and violence
that a lynching represents.
637
00:35:48,834 --> 00:35:51,792
Stevenson:
I've actually been representing
people on death row
638
00:35:51,875 --> 00:35:53,208
for about 31 years.
639
00:35:53,291 --> 00:35:55,417
Walter McMillian was
wrongly convicted
640
00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:59,208
and condemned to death
in Monroe County, Alabama,
641
00:35:59,291 --> 00:36:02,000
which is about an hour
and 45 minutes south of here.
642
00:36:02,083 --> 00:36:05,500
Monroeville is the community
where Harper Lee grew up
643
00:36:05,583 --> 00:36:07,125
and wrote
"To Kill a Mockingbird."
644
00:36:07,208 --> 00:36:09,166
And if you've ever been
to Monroe County,
645
00:36:09,250 --> 00:36:11,333
it's a community
that loves talking about
646
00:36:11,417 --> 00:36:13,166
"To Kill a Mockingbird."
647
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:15,583
- ( laughter )
- And yet in the late 1980s,
648
00:36:15,667 --> 00:36:18,625
a black man
was wrongly convicted
and sentenced to death
649
00:36:18,709 --> 00:36:20,917
for a crime he did not commit.
650
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,542
Ed Bradley:
You didn't kill Ronda Morrison?
651
00:36:23,625 --> 00:36:27,291
No, sir, I ain't never seen
Ronda Morrison a day in my life.
God knows, I ain't.
652
00:36:27,375 --> 00:36:31,041
- Where were you
on the day of the murder?
- At my house.
653
00:36:31,125 --> 00:36:34,208
Did you ever go into Monroeville
on the day of the murder?
654
00:36:34,291 --> 00:36:35,542
- No, sir.
- You never went into town?
655
00:36:35,625 --> 00:36:37,333
Never went to Monroeville,
period.
656
00:36:37,417 --> 00:36:38,750
Stevenson:
There was a murder
657
00:36:38,834 --> 00:36:40,166
that took place
in downtown Monroeville.
658
00:36:40,250 --> 00:36:41,834
The police couldn't solve
the crime.
659
00:36:41,917 --> 00:36:44,333
The pressure
got so great on the police
660
00:36:44,417 --> 00:36:46,208
that I believe they decided
to arrest someone,
661
00:36:46,291 --> 00:36:49,542
even though they knew
that person wasn't guilty.
662
00:36:49,625 --> 00:36:52,667
And the person they chose
to arrest was Walter McMillian.
663
00:36:52,750 --> 00:36:54,375
We believe
they chose to arrest him
664
00:36:54,458 --> 00:36:55,792
because he was a black man
665
00:36:55,875 --> 00:36:57,542
who had had
an interracial affair
666
00:36:57,625 --> 00:36:59,542
- with a young white woman.
- What did he say?
667
00:36:59,625 --> 00:37:03,166
They told me that
I was going to prison
because of that nigger,
668
00:37:03,250 --> 00:37:06,083
and they didn't understand why
I wanted to mess with niggers.
669
00:37:06,166 --> 00:37:09,417
Stevenson:
The trial lasted
a day and a half,
670
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:13,291
the jury actually returned
a verdict of life imprisonment
without parole,
671
00:37:13,375 --> 00:37:16,125
but in Alabama,
our elected trial judges
672
00:37:16,208 --> 00:37:19,750
have the authority to override
jury verdicts of life
673
00:37:19,834 --> 00:37:21,375
and impose the death penalty.
674
00:37:21,458 --> 00:37:23,709
And what happened in this case
is that the elected judge,
675
00:37:23,792 --> 00:37:26,125
whose name was
Robert E. Lee Key--
676
00:37:26,208 --> 00:37:28,208
I know you think
I'm making that up,
but that's true--
677
00:37:28,291 --> 00:37:29,875
- ( laughter )
- overrode the jury's
678
00:37:29,959 --> 00:37:32,583
verdict of life and imposed
the death penalty.
679
00:37:32,667 --> 00:37:35,834
I got involved in the case,
and we came up with
680
00:37:35,917 --> 00:37:39,041
some very dramatic evidence
of Mr. McMillian's innocence.
681
00:37:39,125 --> 00:37:43,166
I have never had a case where
682
00:37:43,250 --> 00:37:46,959
the state's only evidence
of guilt comes from one person.
683
00:37:47,041 --> 00:37:50,709
It turned out that the man
that they got to testify
against him,
684
00:37:50,792 --> 00:37:54,333
they had coerced him
to testify falsely.
685
00:37:54,417 --> 00:37:57,291
And for some very bizarre
reason which I'll never
understand,
686
00:37:57,375 --> 00:38:00,291
they tape recorded the sessions
where they were coercing him
687
00:38:00,375 --> 00:38:03,166
- to testify falsely.
- ( laughter )
688
00:38:03,250 --> 00:38:06,875
Bradley:
Why should anyone
believe you now?
689
00:38:06,959 --> 00:38:10,000
Right is right
and wrong is wrong.
690
00:38:10,083 --> 00:38:13,125
And for a man to
straighten his own life out,
691
00:38:13,208 --> 00:38:15,333
he must tell the truth.
692
00:38:15,417 --> 00:38:19,667
Bright:
What lawyers are doing in cases
on behalf of their clients
693
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:21,709
is telling their stories.
694
00:38:21,792 --> 00:38:24,000
We have to find out
what that story is,
695
00:38:24,083 --> 00:38:25,709
we have to document it,
696
00:38:25,792 --> 00:38:29,917
and then we have to tell it in
as compelling a way that we can.
697
00:38:32,208 --> 00:38:34,750
Stevenson:
It was so clear
that they had violated the law
698
00:38:34,834 --> 00:38:36,667
in so many ways.
699
00:38:36,750 --> 00:38:39,834
But when we presented
the evidence in court,
700
00:38:39,917 --> 00:38:42,208
the court ruled against us.
701
00:38:42,291 --> 00:38:45,166
This was a case that generated
a lot of strong feelings.
702
00:38:45,250 --> 00:38:48,125
I got death threats
during this case.
703
00:38:48,208 --> 00:38:51,834
And then we appealed the case,
704
00:38:51,917 --> 00:38:54,625
and ultimately, we were able
705
00:38:54,709 --> 00:38:57,792
to save Walter McMillian
from execution.
706
00:39:01,333 --> 00:39:06,375
For me, the innocence cases
are the hardest cases.
707
00:39:06,458 --> 00:39:08,834
I think people
think of that the other way.
708
00:39:08,917 --> 00:39:13,959
They think, "Oh, must be great
to work on a case where there's
clear evidence of innocence."
709
00:39:15,709 --> 00:39:18,041
But I know that
our system is capable
710
00:39:18,125 --> 00:39:20,709
of executing innocent people,
711
00:39:20,792 --> 00:39:24,083
of turning a blind eye.
712
00:39:24,166 --> 00:39:27,083
Bright:
The injustices
in these cases literally
713
00:39:27,166 --> 00:39:28,959
jump out at you
when you look at 'em:
714
00:39:29,041 --> 00:39:30,667
the race discrimination,
715
00:39:30,750 --> 00:39:32,959
the trial by ambush
in many of these cases,
716
00:39:33,041 --> 00:39:35,125
the terrible quality of lawyers
717
00:39:35,208 --> 00:39:37,542
that many people who are
sentenced to death get
718
00:39:37,625 --> 00:39:41,375
so that really, their trial
is just a legal lynching.
719
00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:46,959
Stevenson:
By the 1930s and '40s,
720
00:39:47,041 --> 00:39:51,041
there is a growing
anti-lynching movement.
721
00:39:51,125 --> 00:39:53,834
And eventually
the strategy was adopted that,
722
00:39:53,917 --> 00:39:57,625
"We're going to end
mob lynching by telling the mob
that we'll do it for you,
723
00:39:57,709 --> 00:40:00,625
"we'll do it indoors, you don't
have to do it outdoors."
724
00:40:02,458 --> 00:40:05,083
The reliability
of these proceedings,
725
00:40:05,166 --> 00:40:07,667
the fairness
of these proceedings,
didn't get much better.
726
00:40:09,166 --> 00:40:10,709
You have these show trials
727
00:40:10,792 --> 00:40:13,250
that last six or seven hours,
728
00:40:13,333 --> 00:40:15,208
and the same outcome.
729
00:40:15,291 --> 00:40:18,750
We're going to execute
this person.
730
00:40:18,834 --> 00:40:21,583
And you see the numbers
start to rise
731
00:40:21,667 --> 00:40:24,625
of legal execution,
732
00:40:24,709 --> 00:40:27,709
but in communities of color,
it's just legal lynching.
733
00:40:29,875 --> 00:40:31,667
People don't realize
that the case
734
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:34,792
that mobilized Rosa Parks
and Dr. King
735
00:40:34,875 --> 00:40:37,500
here in Montgomery
was not the bus boycott.
736
00:40:37,583 --> 00:40:39,709
It was actually the arrest
of a young teen
737
00:40:39,792 --> 00:40:42,500
who was
wrongly accused of a rape,
738
00:40:42,583 --> 00:40:44,375
who was taken to death row,
739
00:40:44,458 --> 00:40:45,709
put in the electric chair,
740
00:40:45,792 --> 00:40:47,625
and forced to confess.
741
00:40:47,709 --> 00:40:50,500
And then they used that
to convict him
742
00:40:50,583 --> 00:40:53,041
and sentence him to death.
743
00:40:53,125 --> 00:40:57,000
And Rosa Parks was outraged,
and Dr. King was outraged,
744
00:40:57,083 --> 00:40:58,709
and they started
asking the governor
745
00:40:58,792 --> 00:41:00,667
and other people to intervene,
746
00:41:00,750 --> 00:41:04,792
and after a couple of years of
that advocacy they were told,
747
00:41:04,875 --> 00:41:09,166
"Not going to do anything,"
and that young man was executed.
748
00:41:09,250 --> 00:41:12,750
And the pain of that
was part of the story
749
00:41:12,834 --> 00:41:16,834
that then gave rise to
the civil rights movement.
750
00:41:16,917 --> 00:41:20,166
But it was about
this continuum of
751
00:41:20,250 --> 00:41:24,417
presuming black people guilty
and dangerous, no matter
what the evidence.
752
00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:29,083
It was about the way
our criminal justice system
functions.
753
00:41:29,166 --> 00:41:32,291
It was about lynching
and its legacy.
754
00:41:39,458 --> 00:41:41,792
Walter McMillian:
We, uh, we farmed,
755
00:41:41,875 --> 00:41:43,375
used to farm all that land
back there, boy.
756
00:41:43,458 --> 00:41:44,458
We used to farm the land,
757
00:41:44,542 --> 00:41:46,875
just a plow with a mule.
758
00:41:46,959 --> 00:41:50,291
My mama and my older brothers
and things.
759
00:41:50,375 --> 00:41:53,542
Then when I got older,
I took over,
760
00:41:53,625 --> 00:41:55,583
and my other brother,
he took over.
761
00:41:55,667 --> 00:41:57,917
That kept generations,
it kept going.
762
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,750
Plenty of people plant
a lot of cotton around here.
763
00:42:03,125 --> 00:42:05,291
Stevenson:
Walter McMillian was born
764
00:42:05,375 --> 00:42:07,000
in a region of Alabama
765
00:42:07,083 --> 00:42:10,291
that had been part of
the plantation economy.
766
00:42:12,208 --> 00:42:16,000
When emancipation came,
these formerly enslaved people
767
00:42:16,083 --> 00:42:18,875
became sharecroppers
and tenant farmers,
768
00:42:18,959 --> 00:42:21,208
and that's what his family did.
769
00:42:21,291 --> 00:42:23,375
They didn't own the land
they lived on,
770
00:42:23,458 --> 00:42:25,583
it was a brutal,
difficult life.
771
00:42:25,667 --> 00:42:27,417
McMillian:
I started workin'--
772
00:42:27,500 --> 00:42:29,709
I started workin' about,
oh, boy,
773
00:42:29,792 --> 00:42:32,250
I think I was somewhere
around about seven,
774
00:42:32,333 --> 00:42:35,000
about seven, eight years old,
something like that.
775
00:42:37,166 --> 00:42:39,750
Stevenson:
When Mr. McMillian
got out of prison,
776
00:42:39,834 --> 00:42:41,917
he wanted to just
resume his life.
777
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:47,083
But he was never able
to get fully settled.
778
00:42:47,166 --> 00:42:48,834
He came and lived with me
for a while,
779
00:42:48,917 --> 00:42:52,542
he lived with his daughter,
he lived with his sister.
780
00:42:55,208 --> 00:42:57,417
Stevenson:
I think he was traumatized
781
00:42:57,500 --> 00:43:00,250
by his time on death row...
782
00:43:00,333 --> 00:43:03,792
and I don't think
there was really any way
783
00:43:03,875 --> 00:43:06,792
to fully recover from that.
784
00:43:06,875 --> 00:43:09,542
See, you just,
you're thinkin' about--
785
00:43:09,625 --> 00:43:12,750
you always just be
lookin' back all the time.
786
00:43:12,834 --> 00:43:15,542
You know this man
done this to you,
787
00:43:15,625 --> 00:43:18,375
and he might do it again.
788
00:43:19,667 --> 00:43:22,041
( crying softly )
789
00:43:26,250 --> 00:43:28,834
It's rough, I'll tell you.
790
00:43:31,083 --> 00:43:32,667
Stevenson:
It didn't take long
791
00:43:32,750 --> 00:43:35,000
before the burden
of his incarceration
792
00:43:35,083 --> 00:43:38,542
began to manifest itself
with dementia.
793
00:43:38,625 --> 00:43:42,625
He began to show symptoms
of a kind of dementia
794
00:43:42,709 --> 00:43:46,208
that many doctors link
with trauma.
795
00:43:47,875 --> 00:43:49,959
I think that
our history of lynching
796
00:43:50,041 --> 00:43:53,208
casts a shadow over
the modern death penalty.
797
00:43:53,291 --> 00:43:55,750
And the cases of people
like Walter McMillian
798
00:43:55,834 --> 00:44:00,875
show the power of that shadow
to be destructive.
799
00:44:00,959 --> 00:44:05,250
We've now had 156 people
proved innocent
800
00:44:05,333 --> 00:44:07,125
after being sentenced to death.
801
00:44:07,208 --> 00:44:09,000
With less than 1500 executions,
802
00:44:09,083 --> 00:44:11,583
that means that for every ten
people that we execute,
803
00:44:11,667 --> 00:44:14,583
we've now proved
one innocent person
on death row.
804
00:44:14,667 --> 00:44:17,583
It's a shocking rate of error.
805
00:44:17,667 --> 00:44:20,333
Well, we tolerate that error
806
00:44:20,417 --> 00:44:22,166
because we have
a consciousness that says
807
00:44:22,250 --> 00:44:24,834
what happens to those people
isn't really that bad.
808
00:44:24,917 --> 00:44:27,834
It's the same consciousness
that allowed us to tolerate
809
00:44:27,917 --> 00:44:31,000
thousands of lynchings.
810
00:44:31,083 --> 00:44:33,041
And to understand
the consciousness
811
00:44:33,125 --> 00:44:35,834
that would give rise to that,
you have to remember
812
00:44:35,917 --> 00:44:38,583
how the courts
had created this idea
813
00:44:38,667 --> 00:44:41,875
that these black people
are not people,
814
00:44:41,959 --> 00:44:44,875
they're not fully human.
815
00:44:44,959 --> 00:44:46,667
And so in that sense,
816
00:44:46,750 --> 00:44:49,917
you can't disconnect
the death penalty
817
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,583
from the legacy of lynching,
818
00:44:51,667 --> 00:44:54,667
and you can't disconnect
the legacy of lynching
819
00:44:54,750 --> 00:44:57,917
from the era of enslavement.
820
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:03,709
I think that this line
is a very real one.
821
00:45:03,792 --> 00:45:06,667
And if we don't recognize
that line,
822
00:45:06,750 --> 00:45:09,542
we're not going to see the way
that line will continue
823
00:45:09,625 --> 00:45:11,959
to claim lives unfairly.
824
00:45:21,667 --> 00:45:25,208
( playing piano )
825
00:45:37,667 --> 00:45:40,166
( continues playing )
826
00:45:51,667 --> 00:45:54,542
For me, music is therapy,
it's a place to go.
827
00:45:54,625 --> 00:45:56,709
It's the only thing I do
828
00:45:56,792 --> 00:45:59,625
that takes me
completely out of my head.
829
00:45:59,709 --> 00:46:01,291
Like, when I try to exercise
or something,
830
00:46:01,375 --> 00:46:02,959
I'm still processing things,
831
00:46:03,041 --> 00:46:05,917
but when I play, usually,
I'm not thinking about anything.
832
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,000
And so for me it's been
a real comfort, a real aid,
833
00:46:09,083 --> 00:46:14,083
in managing the challenges
that the kind of work we do
can create. Yeah.
834
00:46:19,375 --> 00:46:21,625
Sanneh:
Bryan is the work,
835
00:46:21,709 --> 00:46:23,375
there's no way
to separate him
836
00:46:23,458 --> 00:46:25,667
from the work.
837
00:46:27,542 --> 00:46:32,417
It's his full self
that he pours into it.
838
00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:37,500
He's gone on a path that almost
nobody else would have chosen,
839
00:46:37,583 --> 00:46:40,583
and he's done it at times
840
00:46:40,667 --> 00:46:44,041
that have been
incredibly lonely.
841
00:46:47,709 --> 00:46:50,667
Susskind:
After a long day,
he's getting calls,
842
00:46:50,750 --> 00:46:52,625
multiple calls, every night,
843
00:46:52,709 --> 00:46:55,917
from clients in prison
who have his home phone number.
844
00:46:57,542 --> 00:46:59,458
Some of these folks
don't have family members,
845
00:46:59,542 --> 00:47:01,583
and there's no one
in the world.
846
00:47:04,166 --> 00:47:07,750
On a Sunday morning, when most
of us are takin' a break...
847
00:47:09,417 --> 00:47:10,834
he'll call me from the road,
848
00:47:10,917 --> 00:47:12,667
he'll be driving to a prison
849
00:47:12,750 --> 00:47:15,083
to see an old client.
850
00:47:15,166 --> 00:47:18,083
Ya know, the client
doesn't need a legal visit,
851
00:47:18,166 --> 00:47:21,583
it's just basically,
he's just, as a friend,
852
00:47:21,667 --> 00:47:25,000
going to visit somebody just
so that they can get a visit.
853
00:47:28,041 --> 00:47:30,333
Christy:
For the most part,
he's on the go.
854
00:47:30,417 --> 00:47:32,291
I always say to him,
855
00:47:32,375 --> 00:47:33,792
in a mother voice, you know,
856
00:47:33,875 --> 00:47:37,291
"Eat. Rest your body.
Take time for yourself."
857
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,792
You know, Howard and Bryan,
858
00:47:40,875 --> 00:47:43,625
we don't see each other
as much as we should.
859
00:47:43,709 --> 00:47:45,583
We have a bond
and a connection,
860
00:47:45,667 --> 00:47:47,083
it feels always right,
861
00:47:47,166 --> 00:47:49,333
and when we do get together
it's wonderful.
862
00:47:51,959 --> 00:47:54,166
( chatter )
863
00:47:54,250 --> 00:47:56,625
( piano playing )
864
00:47:56,709 --> 00:47:59,834
Christy:
Oh, now you get it!
( laughing )
865
00:47:59,917 --> 00:48:02,333
( Bryan continues playing )
866
00:48:02,417 --> 00:48:05,417
( stops playing, laughs )
867
00:48:05,500 --> 00:48:07,250
That's a good one.
868
00:48:07,333 --> 00:48:09,041
Howard:
My oldest son, Bryan,
869
00:48:09,125 --> 00:48:10,667
who's named after his uncle,
870
00:48:10,750 --> 00:48:13,000
his mother and I
kind of agreed
871
00:48:13,083 --> 00:48:16,125
that we thought Bryan might
not have time for a family.
872
00:48:16,208 --> 00:48:20,000
And one of the reasons
we named him after his uncle
873
00:48:20,083 --> 00:48:24,834
was envisioning him just always
working and sacrificing that.
874
00:48:24,917 --> 00:48:27,083
Christy:
Let's do a Stevie Wonder song.
875
00:48:27,166 --> 00:48:30,333
- The kids know-- Oh, no, he's--
- ( Bryan playing ragtime )
876
00:48:30,417 --> 00:48:32,458
Howard:
I used to worry about it
all the time.
877
00:48:32,542 --> 00:48:35,375
You know, needing his own
downtime, his own family,
878
00:48:35,458 --> 00:48:37,500
his own space.
879
00:48:37,583 --> 00:48:39,125
But, um,
880
00:48:39,208 --> 00:48:41,291
he's convinced us
that he's good.
881
00:48:41,375 --> 00:48:44,125
- ( chatter )
- I think I want to be a-- a--
882
00:48:44,208 --> 00:48:45,625
- A designer.
- Designer.
883
00:48:45,709 --> 00:48:46,709
Bryan:
Oh, beautiful!
884
00:48:46,792 --> 00:48:49,083
Scientist, inventor,
adventurer,
885
00:48:49,166 --> 00:48:51,417
- game-maker...
- Christy: That's a lot.
886
00:48:51,500 --> 00:48:54,458
And the richest
and most famous man
in the world.
887
00:48:54,542 --> 00:48:57,041
- Besides you.
- Oh, wow, well, you'll--
888
00:48:57,125 --> 00:48:59,792
you'll definitely
be able to be richer,
889
00:48:59,875 --> 00:49:03,375
that's for sure. Um...
890
00:49:03,458 --> 00:49:05,166
Stevenson:
I've never really
spent a lot of time
891
00:49:05,250 --> 00:49:07,417
thinking about
what I don't have.
892
00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:10,417
There are times, obviously,
when you feel like you're--
893
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:14,250
you have a different life,
I have a different life,
you have a different situation.
894
00:49:14,333 --> 00:49:17,291
I love children,
I love my nieces and my nephews
895
00:49:17,375 --> 00:49:19,125
and all of that.
896
00:49:19,208 --> 00:49:20,875
But it never feels to me--
897
00:49:20,959 --> 00:49:22,583
It's never felt
like a sacrifice.
898
00:49:22,667 --> 00:49:24,709
It just feels like, you know,
899
00:49:24,792 --> 00:49:29,625
I have the opportunity
to do these amazing things
with amazing people,
900
00:49:29,709 --> 00:49:33,375
and I feel really privileged
to do that.
901
00:49:46,750 --> 00:49:50,041
( chatter )
902
00:49:52,375 --> 00:49:55,250
Hinton:
I wrote Mr. Stevenson a letter.
903
00:49:55,291 --> 00:49:59,458
I said, "Mr. Stevenson,
I would like for you
to become my lawyer,
904
00:49:59,542 --> 00:50:01,709
but before you say yes or no,
905
00:50:01,792 --> 00:50:04,417
all I ask is that
you read my transcript."
906
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:08,166
I said, "And if you find one
thing in my transcript
907
00:50:08,250 --> 00:50:13,000
that points to my guilt, do not
worry about becoming my lawyer.
908
00:50:14,792 --> 00:50:17,375
Stevenson:
When I met Anthony Ray Hinton,
909
00:50:17,458 --> 00:50:21,834
years after we'd won freedom
for Walter McMillian,
910
00:50:21,917 --> 00:50:24,583
it was very sobering for me,
911
00:50:24,667 --> 00:50:26,917
because he was actually
on death row
912
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,959
before Walter McMillian.
913
00:50:29,041 --> 00:50:32,375
Walter did six years
on death row before
he was released.
914
00:50:32,458 --> 00:50:37,375
Mr. Hinton had already been
on death row for 14 years
before I met him.
915
00:50:37,417 --> 00:50:42,333
And the evidence of his
innocence was just as dramatic,
916
00:50:42,375 --> 00:50:45,709
so we immediately
start working on the case.
917
00:50:49,709 --> 00:50:52,417
Judge McMillan:
Mr. Stevenson,
we'll be equally as lenient
918
00:50:52,542 --> 00:50:54,291
on the time considerations
of your argument.
919
00:50:54,375 --> 00:50:57,041
Thank you, thank you,
Chief Judge McMillan.
920
00:50:57,125 --> 00:51:01,208
I represent the petitioner in
this matter, Anthony Ray Hinton.
921
00:51:01,291 --> 00:51:03,083
Let me first
start out by saying
922
00:51:03,166 --> 00:51:05,917
that this is
an extraordinary case.
923
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,458
We have alleged
in the court below,
924
00:51:08,542 --> 00:51:10,500
as we have represented
to this court,
925
00:51:10,583 --> 00:51:12,583
that Mr. Hinton is innocent.
926
00:51:14,250 --> 00:51:16,041
Hinton:
I said, "Mr. Stevenson,
927
00:51:16,125 --> 00:51:18,709
if no two guns is alike,"
928
00:51:18,792 --> 00:51:22,083
I said, "I know that the state
of Alabama is telling a lie."
929
00:51:22,166 --> 00:51:26,458
I said, "I need you to hire
a ballistics expert,"
930
00:51:26,542 --> 00:51:31,000
and I said, "I need you
to get a Southern white man."
931
00:51:31,083 --> 00:51:33,792
I said, "All of my life
I lived in the South,
932
00:51:33,875 --> 00:51:37,000
and I know how the South work."
933
00:51:37,083 --> 00:51:40,667
I said, "They only gonna believe
one of their own.
934
00:51:40,750 --> 00:51:46,083
I need that Southern white man
to just tell the truth."
935
00:51:46,166 --> 00:51:47,500
Stevenson:
We have now alleged
936
00:51:47,583 --> 00:51:49,792
that we have done testing
937
00:51:49,875 --> 00:51:51,834
by some of the best experts
in this country,
938
00:51:51,917 --> 00:51:53,792
that establish that
there is no match
939
00:51:53,875 --> 00:51:56,208
between this weapon
and the projectiles.
940
00:51:56,291 --> 00:51:59,125
Stevenson:
Once we got involved
and we were able to get
941
00:51:59,208 --> 00:52:01,875
the best gun experts
in the country
to look at the evidence,
942
00:52:01,959 --> 00:52:04,041
and they quickly concluded
that this gun
943
00:52:04,125 --> 00:52:07,458
was not the weapon
that was used in these murders,
944
00:52:07,542 --> 00:52:09,417
we thought we could get
a quick resolution.
945
00:52:09,500 --> 00:52:10,875
Judge McMillan:
Thank you, Mr. Stevenson.
946
00:52:10,959 --> 00:52:12,291
I'd like to thank both counsels
947
00:52:12,375 --> 00:52:14,000
for your excellent
presentations.
948
00:52:14,083 --> 00:52:16,333
At this time, the court will be
in recess for five minutes.
949
00:52:16,417 --> 00:52:17,959
Bailiff:
All rise.
950
00:52:22,291 --> 00:52:27,417
Hinton:
We took this new evidence
to the Attorney General,
951
00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:30,125
whose name at that time
was Bill Pryor,
952
00:52:30,208 --> 00:52:33,458
and asked him
to reexamine the bullets.
953
00:52:35,208 --> 00:52:37,542
His staff was quoted as saying,
954
00:52:37,625 --> 00:52:40,250
"It would be a waste
of the taxpayer money,
955
00:52:40,333 --> 00:52:42,875
and it would be a waste
of his time."
956
00:52:42,959 --> 00:52:45,125
And although it would
only take one hour,
957
00:52:45,208 --> 00:52:49,500
that is one hour that
he was not willing to take.
958
00:52:49,583 --> 00:52:52,667
And for not doing his job,
959
00:52:52,750 --> 00:52:58,333
George W. Bush appointed him to
a federal lifetime appointment.
960
00:53:01,500 --> 00:53:05,083
Sixteen years went by,
961
00:53:05,166 --> 00:53:08,166
three different
attorney generals.
962
00:53:08,250 --> 00:53:12,000
My life was not worth one hour.
963
00:53:13,792 --> 00:53:17,125
My life worth
was not worth the truth.
964
00:53:34,667 --> 00:53:36,458
Stevenson:
There would be a lot of times
965
00:53:36,542 --> 00:53:39,291
when the weight of all of this
966
00:53:39,375 --> 00:53:42,333
would get to both of us.
967
00:53:42,417 --> 00:53:46,792
You know, you keep hoping that
this is going to be the month
968
00:53:46,875 --> 00:53:49,875
and we'd get a ruling, and it
wasn't the ruling we needed.
969
00:53:51,583 --> 00:53:56,291
And I just think your capacity
to maintain hope
970
00:53:56,375 --> 00:54:02,291
in the face of such irrational
resistance is challenged.
971
00:54:02,375 --> 00:54:03,959
You know, there would be days
when he'd say,
972
00:54:04,041 --> 00:54:06,875
"I just don't know how much
longer I can do this."
973
00:54:08,583 --> 00:54:11,542
And year after year went by.
974
00:54:16,583 --> 00:54:21,083
Bright:
There's a huge difference
between law and justice.
975
00:54:21,166 --> 00:54:24,709
Law says that if a person misses
a deadline by a day,
976
00:54:24,792 --> 00:54:26,458
even though
it's an innocent mistake,
977
00:54:26,542 --> 00:54:29,667
that person is gonna be denied
any relief in the court.
978
00:54:29,750 --> 00:54:31,291
That's not justice.
979
00:54:31,375 --> 00:54:33,625
Justice would say: Let's look
and see what happened
980
00:54:33,709 --> 00:54:37,000
and do the right thing.
981
00:54:37,083 --> 00:54:40,667
Susskind:
The most difficult thing,
at least for me,
982
00:54:40,750 --> 00:54:45,500
is, I can file motions,
I can appeal losses,
983
00:54:45,583 --> 00:54:49,333
I can challenge your conviction,
challenge your sentence.
984
00:54:49,417 --> 00:54:51,750
That's what I have to offer
as a lawyer.
985
00:54:51,834 --> 00:54:54,291
But then ultimately no court
agrees with you
986
00:54:54,375 --> 00:54:56,041
that there's an injustice
in the case
987
00:54:56,125 --> 00:54:58,959
and your client gets executed.
988
00:54:59,041 --> 00:55:01,875
It actually happened
to three of my clients in a row,
989
00:55:01,959 --> 00:55:04,208
all within a one-year period.
990
00:55:04,291 --> 00:55:07,458
You want to just lean out
the window and scream,
991
00:55:07,542 --> 00:55:10,083
"Does anyone see
what's happening here?"
992
00:55:12,125 --> 00:55:14,125
Stevenson:
In 2009,
993
00:55:14,208 --> 00:55:16,375
we got involved
in a case of a man
994
00:55:16,458 --> 00:55:17,792
who didn't have a lawyer,
995
00:55:17,875 --> 00:55:20,792
who was scheduled to be executed
in 30 days.
996
00:55:20,875 --> 00:55:24,166
This was after
the court had ruled,
in Atkins vs. Virginia,
997
00:55:24,250 --> 00:55:27,041
that you can't execute
the intellectually disabled.
998
00:55:27,125 --> 00:55:31,208
And it turned out
this man did suffer from
intellectual disability.
999
00:55:31,291 --> 00:55:33,250
So I went to the trial court
and said,
1000
00:55:33,333 --> 00:55:35,583
"You can't execute him."
But the trial court said,
1001
00:55:35,667 --> 00:55:38,667
"Too late, somebody should have
raised that years ago."
1002
00:55:38,750 --> 00:55:41,125
I went to the state court,
they said, "Too late."
1003
00:55:41,208 --> 00:55:43,083
The appeals court said,
"Too late."
1004
00:55:43,166 --> 00:55:45,667
The federal court said,
"Too late."
1005
00:55:49,875 --> 00:55:52,875
We got to the day
of the execution
1006
00:55:52,959 --> 00:55:54,792
and I was waiting on a ruling
1007
00:55:54,875 --> 00:55:56,792
from the United States
Supreme Court.
1008
00:55:59,583 --> 00:56:01,250
Finally the call came,
1009
00:56:01,333 --> 00:56:04,083
and the ruling was that our
motion for a stay of execution
1010
00:56:04,166 --> 00:56:06,792
was due to be denied.
1011
00:56:06,875 --> 00:56:11,083
And I then had to do
the hardest thing I do
in my job.
1012
00:56:11,166 --> 00:56:14,625
I got on the phone
and I told this man,
1013
00:56:14,709 --> 00:56:16,333
"I'm so sorry,
1014
00:56:16,417 --> 00:56:19,750
but I can't stop
this execution."
1015
00:56:19,834 --> 00:56:21,458
And then the man did the thing
1016
00:56:21,542 --> 00:56:23,125
that I dread the most
in my work:
1017
00:56:23,208 --> 00:56:24,208
He started to cry.
1018
00:56:26,208 --> 00:56:28,834
And then he tried
to say something to me,
1019
00:56:28,917 --> 00:56:31,709
but in addition to being
intellectually disabled,
1020
00:56:31,792 --> 00:56:37,125
he had a speech impediment
and he began to stutter.
1021
00:56:37,208 --> 00:56:39,959
And in this moment, he kept
trying to say something,
1022
00:56:40,041 --> 00:56:42,291
and he just couldn't
get a word out.
1023
00:56:42,375 --> 00:56:46,041
And I didn't know what to say,
I just was holding the phone.
1024
00:56:46,125 --> 00:56:48,375
And my mind began to wander...
1025
00:56:50,583 --> 00:56:54,417
and I remembered going
to church one Sunday
when I was a little boy.
1026
00:56:54,500 --> 00:56:56,750
My mom had taken me to church.
1027
00:56:58,500 --> 00:57:01,125
I remembered being in church
talking to my friends
1028
00:57:01,208 --> 00:57:05,166
and seeing this
little skinny kid
I'd never seen before.
1029
00:57:05,250 --> 00:57:09,291
I asked that little boy,
I said, "What's your name?
Where are you from?"
1030
00:57:09,375 --> 00:57:12,709
And I remembered how
that little boy also couldn't
get his words out,
1031
00:57:12,792 --> 00:57:15,458
and he started to stutter.
1032
00:57:15,542 --> 00:57:19,041
And then I remembered:
I laughed.
1033
00:57:19,125 --> 00:57:21,041
And my mom saw me
laughing at this little boy
1034
00:57:21,125 --> 00:57:22,834
and she came over
and she grabbed me by the arm
1035
00:57:22,917 --> 00:57:25,250
and she pulled me aside...
1036
00:57:25,333 --> 00:57:28,125
and she said, "Bryan,
don't you ever do that.
1037
00:57:28,208 --> 00:57:31,750
Now you go back over there
and you tell that little boy
you're sorry.
1038
00:57:31,834 --> 00:57:33,750
After you tell that little boy
you're sorry,
1039
00:57:33,834 --> 00:57:35,417
I want you to hug
that little boy.
1040
00:57:35,500 --> 00:57:37,000
After you hug that little boy,
1041
00:57:37,083 --> 00:57:39,875
I want you to tell
that little boy you love him."
1042
00:57:42,750 --> 00:57:45,583
And on the night
of this execution
what I remembered
1043
00:57:45,667 --> 00:57:48,208
was walking over
to this little boy and saying,
1044
00:57:48,291 --> 00:57:51,667
"Look, man, you know,
well, you know, I'm sorry."
1045
00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:54,250
And then I remember
lunging at him
1046
00:57:54,333 --> 00:57:57,709
and giving him my little boy
version of a man hug,
1047
00:57:57,792 --> 00:58:01,583
and then I remember trying to
say to this child as insincerely
as I possibly could,
1048
00:58:01,667 --> 00:58:07,333
I said, "Look, man, you know,
you know, I don't know, well,
you know, well, um, I love you."
1049
00:58:07,417 --> 00:58:12,625
And what I'd forgotten was how
that little boy hugged me back.
1050
00:58:12,709 --> 00:58:16,750
And then I remembered
how he whispered flawlessly
in my ear, he said,
1051
00:58:16,834 --> 00:58:19,750
"I love you too."
1052
00:58:19,834 --> 00:58:23,917
I was holding the phone,
and tears were running
down my face.
1053
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,000
Finally, my client
got his words out.
1054
00:58:27,083 --> 00:58:30,959
He said, "Mr. Stevenson,
I want to thank you
for representing me."
1055
00:58:31,041 --> 00:58:34,667
And then he said,
"I want to thank you
for fighting for me."
1056
00:58:34,750 --> 00:58:37,750
And the last thing
that man said to me, he said,
1057
00:58:37,834 --> 00:58:41,750
"Mr. Stevenson, I love you
for trying to save my life."
1058
00:58:41,834 --> 00:58:45,000
He hung up the phone,
they pulled him away,
1059
00:58:45,083 --> 00:58:48,166
they strapped him to a gurney,
and they executed him.
1060
00:58:48,250 --> 00:58:50,875
I hung up the phone and I said,
"I can't do this anymore."
1061
00:58:57,250 --> 00:58:59,083
I was sitting there in agony
1062
00:58:59,166 --> 00:59:01,875
thinking about why
I do what I do.
1063
00:59:01,959 --> 00:59:04,917
I kept thinking about
how broken he was.
1064
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,166
My clients have been broken by
poverty, broken by disability,
1065
00:59:08,250 --> 00:59:12,291
broken by trauma, broken
by bias and discrimination.
1066
00:59:12,375 --> 00:59:14,458
But what I realized that night
1067
00:59:14,542 --> 00:59:16,583
that I had never
realized before,
1068
00:59:16,667 --> 00:59:20,917
is that I do what I do
because I'm broken too.
1069
00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:33,083
Stevenson:
People sometimes say to me,
1070
00:59:33,166 --> 00:59:34,625
"Oh, it must be overwhelming
and difficult
1071
00:59:34,709 --> 00:59:36,041
to represent people
on death row,
1072
00:59:36,125 --> 00:59:37,375
to be fighting against
the system,"
1073
00:59:37,458 --> 00:59:38,667
and it is.
1074
00:59:40,709 --> 00:59:44,125
The truth is that if you stand
next to the condemned,
1075
00:59:44,208 --> 00:59:46,041
if you fight for the poor,
1076
00:59:46,125 --> 00:59:49,375
if you push against systems
that are rooted and heavy,
1077
00:59:49,458 --> 00:59:52,333
if you keep pushing
and you keep fighting
1078
00:59:52,417 --> 00:59:56,250
and you keep doing,
you're going to get broken.
1079
00:59:57,917 --> 01:00:02,417
What I realized is that I am
part of the broken community.
1080
01:00:02,500 --> 01:00:05,333
And when you realize that,
you don't have a choice
1081
01:00:05,417 --> 01:00:08,458
in standing up for
the rights of the other broken.
1082
01:00:10,792 --> 01:00:13,709
And so when I feel overwhelmed,
I go into the conference room
1083
01:00:13,792 --> 01:00:17,667
and I look out the window
and I think about the people
1084
01:00:17,750 --> 01:00:20,166
who were working here
60 years ago
1085
01:00:20,250 --> 01:00:23,208
trying to just
create more justice.
1086
01:00:25,583 --> 01:00:29,709
Sometimes I go to Dexter,
Dr. King's church.
1087
01:00:29,792 --> 01:00:33,250
We're at the heart,
even the birthplace,
1088
01:00:33,333 --> 01:00:35,917
of the modern
civil rights movement.
1089
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:37,875
( applause on archive footage )
1090
01:00:37,959 --> 01:00:41,709
Stevenson:
And the images that
we like to show of Dr. King
1091
01:00:41,792 --> 01:00:44,625
are him giving
these brilliant speeches
1092
01:00:44,709 --> 01:00:47,500
about the moral arc
of the universe.
1093
01:00:47,583 --> 01:00:50,625
But the image that I think
best captures his courage
1094
01:00:50,709 --> 01:00:54,375
is the image of him in
a Montgomery police station
1095
01:00:54,458 --> 01:00:57,917
with his arm being pulled
violently behind his back,
1096
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,875
where he's being arrested
because he has organized
1097
01:01:00,959 --> 01:01:04,542
a protest
against racial segregation.
1098
01:01:04,625 --> 01:01:06,250
Martin Luther King Jr.:
Just the other day,
1099
01:01:06,333 --> 01:01:10,792
one of the fine citizens of
our community, Mrs. Rosa Parks,
1100
01:01:10,875 --> 01:01:15,166
was arrested because
she refused to give up her seat
1101
01:01:15,250 --> 01:01:17,542
for a white passenger.
1102
01:01:19,917 --> 01:01:23,375
Stevenson:
When you look at our history
when it comes to race,
1103
01:01:23,458 --> 01:01:26,917
order is a defining
characteristic.
1104
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,208
Every time it seems
that people of color
1105
01:01:29,291 --> 01:01:31,583
have some moment of progress,
1106
01:01:31,667 --> 01:01:34,458
there is a reaction
against that,
1107
01:01:34,542 --> 01:01:37,792
and the reaction is usually
to criminalize
1108
01:01:37,875 --> 01:01:40,917
and use the criminal
justice system to reshape,
1109
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,542
redefine what's just happened.
1110
01:01:44,625 --> 01:01:49,208
So when people start
protesting, what do we do?
We call them criminals.
1111
01:01:49,291 --> 01:01:51,500
Dr. King is convicted
of a crime
1112
01:01:51,583 --> 01:01:55,333
for organizing
the Montgomery bus boycott.
1113
01:01:55,417 --> 01:02:00,417
That frame is a constant frame
in American history.
1114
01:02:02,875 --> 01:02:07,083
That's what gave rise
to convict leasing.
1115
01:02:07,166 --> 01:02:11,291
What happened in the 1870s
when Reconstruction collapses,
1116
01:02:11,375 --> 01:02:14,125
is that states immediately
began criminalizing
1117
01:02:14,208 --> 01:02:16,125
all kinds of conduct
by black people
1118
01:02:16,208 --> 01:02:19,208
that they would never
criminalize for white people.
1119
01:02:19,291 --> 01:02:22,333
Oh, if six black people
are together after dark,
1120
01:02:22,417 --> 01:02:23,959
that's a crime.
1121
01:02:24,041 --> 01:02:26,667
If black people try to get a job
without a letter
1122
01:02:26,750 --> 01:02:30,417
from their former slave owner,
that's a crime.
1123
01:02:30,500 --> 01:02:32,375
They start arresting
people of color
1124
01:02:32,458 --> 01:02:35,500
and convicting them
of these made-up crimes,
1125
01:02:35,583 --> 01:02:39,000
and they were leased
to commercial entities.
1126
01:02:39,083 --> 01:02:43,834
It was a new kind
of enslavement.
1127
01:02:43,917 --> 01:02:49,041
The label "slave" is replaced
with the label "criminal."
1128
01:02:49,125 --> 01:02:52,083
But it created the same ability
1129
01:02:52,166 --> 01:02:55,375
to oppress and to control.
1130
01:02:55,458 --> 01:02:57,667
Using crime and criminality
1131
01:02:57,750 --> 01:03:01,000
has been an effective tool
throughout.
1132
01:03:01,083 --> 01:03:03,834
So, in the 1950s and '60s,
1133
01:03:03,917 --> 01:03:07,000
when people start
protesting and marching,
1134
01:03:07,083 --> 01:03:09,083
they're criminalized.
1135
01:03:09,166 --> 01:03:11,458
And it is
the criminal justice system,
1136
01:03:11,542 --> 01:03:13,500
it is those who wear uniforms,
1137
01:03:13,583 --> 01:03:15,542
that become the foot soldiers
1138
01:03:15,625 --> 01:03:19,625
of this effort to sustain
racial inequality.
1139
01:03:19,709 --> 01:03:22,041
President Richard Nixon:
When the nation with
the greatest tradition
1140
01:03:22,125 --> 01:03:25,875
of the rule of law is plagued
by unprecedented lawlessness,
1141
01:03:25,959 --> 01:03:28,542
then it's time
for new leadership
1142
01:03:28,625 --> 01:03:30,667
for the United States
of America!
1143
01:03:30,750 --> 01:03:32,709
( crowd cheering )
1144
01:03:32,792 --> 01:03:35,041
( sirens wailing )
1145
01:03:35,125 --> 01:03:37,041
Stevenson:
When Richard Nixon
claims power,
1146
01:03:37,125 --> 01:03:38,542
he uses the same trope:
1147
01:03:38,625 --> 01:03:40,417
"We've got to have
law and order."
1148
01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:42,834
Nixon:
And to those who say
that law and order
1149
01:03:42,917 --> 01:03:45,375
is a code word for racism,
1150
01:03:45,458 --> 01:03:48,417
our goal is justice--
justice for every American.
1151
01:03:48,500 --> 01:03:51,208
My car hasn't been involved
in no burglary.
1152
01:03:51,291 --> 01:03:53,625
Stevenson:
As we move into the 1970s,
1153
01:03:53,709 --> 01:03:57,041
everybody is talking about
getting tough on crime,
1154
01:03:57,125 --> 01:04:01,083
and we commit now to build
1155
01:04:01,166 --> 01:04:04,250
a new institution that
will operate that control,
1156
01:04:04,333 --> 01:04:08,000
and we're gonna call it
mass incarceration.
1157
01:04:08,083 --> 01:04:09,834
And the prison population
begins to grow.
1158
01:04:09,917 --> 01:04:13,875
We go from 300,000 in 1972
1159
01:04:13,959 --> 01:04:16,125
to 2.3 million today.
1160
01:04:16,208 --> 01:04:20,709
We become the society
with the highest rate of
incarceration in the world.
1161
01:04:20,792 --> 01:04:24,041
We've allowed
the criminal justice system
to be the repository
1162
01:04:24,125 --> 01:04:27,417
of what we do with our rage,
our anger, our frustration,
1163
01:04:27,500 --> 01:04:29,083
when we've had
moments of progress
1164
01:04:29,166 --> 01:04:32,417
with regard to civil rights
and racial justice.
1165
01:04:32,500 --> 01:04:34,875
We do it to everybody.
We do it to women.
1166
01:04:34,959 --> 01:04:36,750
The percentage of women
going to jails and prisons
1167
01:04:36,834 --> 01:04:41,625
has increased 646%
over the last 25 years.
1168
01:04:41,709 --> 01:04:43,291
We do it to children.
1169
01:04:43,375 --> 01:04:44,750
We began lowering
the minimum age
1170
01:04:44,834 --> 01:04:46,917
for trying children as adults.
1171
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:50,917
We did it to the mentally ill,
people with disabilities.
1172
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:54,834
We spent $6 billion
on jails and prisons in 1980,
1173
01:04:54,917 --> 01:04:57,500
$80 billion last year.
1174
01:04:57,583 --> 01:04:59,917
And the people who profit
from that industry
1175
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,291
have a perverse incentive to
make sure no one is released.
1176
01:05:04,375 --> 01:05:06,417
And the more people
we incarcerate,
1177
01:05:06,500 --> 01:05:08,792
the more money they make.
1178
01:05:08,875 --> 01:05:13,542
And it's not unlike
the economic dynamic
1179
01:05:13,625 --> 01:05:18,125
that allowed us
to keep enslaving people.
1180
01:05:18,208 --> 01:05:19,959
It's the reason
why this statistic
1181
01:05:20,041 --> 01:05:21,333
about one in three
black male babies
1182
01:05:21,458 --> 01:05:22,834
going to jail or prison
1183
01:05:22,917 --> 01:05:25,667
is an indictment on this country
1184
01:05:25,750 --> 01:05:29,083
and our failure to recognize
this historical legacy.
1185
01:05:34,333 --> 01:05:39,250
Stevenson:
My grandparents were from
Caroline County, Virginia.
1186
01:05:39,333 --> 01:05:41,291
But in the early 20th century,
1187
01:05:41,375 --> 01:05:44,041
they, along with
lots of other black people,
1188
01:05:44,125 --> 01:05:47,166
went north, and ended up
in Philadelphia,
1189
01:05:47,250 --> 01:05:49,250
and that's where
my mother was raised.
1190
01:05:51,417 --> 01:05:54,792
My grandfather ended up
living in the projects
1191
01:05:54,875 --> 01:05:57,333
in South Philadelphia,
1192
01:05:57,417 --> 01:06:01,000
and when he was 86 years old,
1193
01:06:01,083 --> 01:06:06,041
some young kids broke in
and tried to steal his TV,
1194
01:06:06,125 --> 01:06:09,125
and he said "No,"
and he was stabbed to death,
1195
01:06:09,208 --> 01:06:11,959
he was a murder victim.
1196
01:06:12,041 --> 01:06:13,709
I was 16 years old.
1197
01:06:13,792 --> 01:06:17,875
I saw the pain and anguish
that created in our family.
1198
01:06:17,959 --> 01:06:21,875
The question we asked was:
"Why? Why did this happen?
1199
01:06:21,959 --> 01:06:26,458
Why would these young kids
act like that?"
1200
01:06:29,625 --> 01:06:33,333
When I go into poor communities
and I sit down with young boys
1201
01:06:33,417 --> 01:06:36,542
and I try to have an honest
conversation with them,
1202
01:06:36,625 --> 01:06:38,542
they'll say, "Mr. Stevenson,
1203
01:06:38,625 --> 01:06:41,041
I know I'm gonna be in prison
by the time I'm 21."
1204
01:06:41,083 --> 01:06:42,750
'Cause they're living
in communities where
1205
01:06:42,834 --> 01:06:46,875
80% of the young men of color
end up in jail or prison.
1206
01:06:46,959 --> 01:06:49,041
And so they say to me,
"Mr. Stevenson, I've got to
go out here
1207
01:06:49,166 --> 01:06:51,000
and get mine while I can."
1208
01:06:53,667 --> 01:06:55,583
But a bigger question is,
1209
01:06:55,667 --> 01:06:57,583
why was my grandfather
in South Philadelphia
1210
01:06:57,667 --> 01:07:00,041
living in the projects
in his mid-80s?
1211
01:07:00,166 --> 01:07:03,000
And that has a lot to do
with this history.
1212
01:07:03,041 --> 01:07:06,500
It has a lot to do
with that era of lynching.
1213
01:07:08,083 --> 01:07:11,583
It's why 6 million black people
fled the American South
1214
01:07:11,667 --> 01:07:13,750
in the first half
of the 20th century
1215
01:07:13,834 --> 01:07:18,583
in one of the largest mass
migrations in world history.
1216
01:07:18,667 --> 01:07:21,417
The black people in Cleveland,
the black people in Chicago,
1217
01:07:21,500 --> 01:07:23,792
the black people in Detroit,
in Los Angeles,
1218
01:07:23,875 --> 01:07:26,000
in Philadelphia,
in Boston, in New York,
1219
01:07:26,041 --> 01:07:29,667
came to these communities as
refugees and exiles from terror
1220
01:07:29,750 --> 01:07:31,458
in the American South.
1221
01:07:31,542 --> 01:07:33,333
( onlookers shouting )
1222
01:07:33,417 --> 01:07:36,000
Stevenson:
Those communities
have never been given
1223
01:07:36,041 --> 01:07:37,792
the opportunity to recover
1224
01:07:37,875 --> 01:07:40,041
in the way that
I think they should.
1225
01:07:40,166 --> 01:07:43,583
And that creates
conditions today
1226
01:07:43,667 --> 01:07:45,542
that are very problematic.
1227
01:07:48,208 --> 01:07:51,291
What's happening
to too many of our children
in these communities
1228
01:07:51,375 --> 01:07:53,917
where people fled
from violence and terror
1229
01:07:53,959 --> 01:07:55,500
is that they're
still being terrorized.
1230
01:07:55,583 --> 01:07:57,250
Yeah,
no guns this time.
1231
01:07:57,333 --> 01:07:58,583
Stevenson:
They live
in violent neighborhoods,
1232
01:07:58,667 --> 01:07:59,750
they go to violent schools,
1233
01:07:59,834 --> 01:08:01,208
and by the time they're five,
1234
01:08:01,291 --> 01:08:03,583
they actually have
a trauma disorder.
1235
01:08:03,667 --> 01:08:07,375
Threat and menace
becomes a defining reality
in the lives of these children,
1236
01:08:07,458 --> 01:08:11,792
and when you're constantly
dealing with that year
after year after year,
1237
01:08:11,917 --> 01:08:13,625
at the age of eight if somebody
comes to you and says,
1238
01:08:13,750 --> 01:08:15,792
"Hey, I got a drug,
why don't you try this?"
1239
01:08:15,917 --> 01:08:17,792
And for the first time in
your life you have three hours
1240
01:08:17,917 --> 01:08:20,250
where you don't feel threatened
and menaced, what do you want?
1241
01:08:20,333 --> 01:08:21,750
You want more of that drug.
1242
01:08:21,834 --> 01:08:24,083
And if somebody
at 10 or 11 says,
1243
01:08:24,166 --> 01:08:25,834
"Hey, man, why don't you
join our gang,
1244
01:08:25,917 --> 01:08:27,917
we're gonna help you fight
all of these forces
1245
01:08:27,959 --> 01:08:29,750
that are threatening
and menacing you,
1246
01:08:29,792 --> 01:08:30,917
and you say, "Yeah,"
1247
01:08:31,041 --> 01:08:32,500
instead of seeing that choice
1248
01:08:32,583 --> 01:08:34,375
as a choice that
that's a bad kid,
1249
01:08:34,458 --> 01:08:39,041
we ought to see that choice as
a choice of a larger problem.
1250
01:08:40,583 --> 01:08:42,375
We've got 13 states
in this country
1251
01:08:42,458 --> 01:08:45,917
with no minimum age for
trying a child as an adult.
1252
01:08:45,959 --> 01:08:48,291
I've represented
nine- and ten-year-old kids
1253
01:08:48,375 --> 01:08:51,041
facing 60- and 70-year
prison sentences.
1254
01:08:51,125 --> 01:08:55,333
We started putting
13-year-old children in prison
1255
01:08:55,417 --> 01:08:57,917
with sentences of life
imprisonment without parole,
1256
01:08:57,959 --> 01:09:01,625
we've condemned them to die
at 13 and 14.
1257
01:09:05,917 --> 01:09:08,959
Sanneh:
I came to this work
through the death penalty,
1258
01:09:09,041 --> 01:09:11,417
and so I think I felt
1259
01:09:11,500 --> 01:09:17,208
that I emotionally
was prepared for anything.
1260
01:09:19,917 --> 01:09:23,083
One of the first cases
I worked on
1261
01:09:23,166 --> 01:09:25,625
with a young teenager,
1262
01:09:25,750 --> 01:09:30,083
I went and drove
to a county jail
1263
01:09:30,166 --> 01:09:31,917
after hearing from a relative
1264
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,792
that they had a nephew
who'd been arrested,
1265
01:09:34,875 --> 01:09:37,625
charged with a felony and was
being held in the adult prison.
1266
01:09:42,333 --> 01:09:44,041
I got there,
1267
01:09:44,125 --> 01:09:47,834
and there was this 14-year-old
African American kid
1268
01:09:47,917 --> 01:09:49,667
in the hallway
1269
01:09:49,750 --> 01:09:53,625
chained to a pole
1270
01:09:53,709 --> 01:09:56,625
in an enormous orange jumpsuit
1271
01:09:56,709 --> 01:10:02,083
that was so big for him it was
completely covering his hands.
1272
01:10:03,959 --> 01:10:08,000
And I remember just the sight
of all these people
1273
01:10:08,083 --> 01:10:10,917
coming and going around him...
1274
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:15,000
just completely unaffected
by that.
1275
01:10:15,083 --> 01:10:18,458
It's the first time
I remember being in a prison
1276
01:10:18,542 --> 01:10:22,917
and really having
to dig my nails into myself
1277
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,709
to prevent myself from crying.
1278
01:10:35,458 --> 01:10:38,417
Stevenson:
In 2005, a case called
Roper vs. Simmons,
1279
01:10:38,500 --> 01:10:42,000
the Supreme Court struck down
the death penalty for children.
1280
01:10:42,083 --> 01:10:44,959
Alabama had one of the largest
1281
01:10:45,041 --> 01:10:48,000
juvenile populations
on death row,
1282
01:10:48,083 --> 01:10:50,333
that when that decision
came down,
1283
01:10:50,417 --> 01:10:51,959
we started talking with them
about the fact
1284
01:10:52,041 --> 01:10:54,291
that they weren't
going to be executed.
1285
01:10:54,375 --> 01:10:57,208
I think some of us
expected joy and relief,
1286
01:10:57,291 --> 01:10:59,125
but what we got instead was,
1287
01:10:59,208 --> 01:11:01,000
"I'm just getting a different
kind of death sentence.
1288
01:11:01,083 --> 01:11:03,792
I'm going to die in prison
through incarceration
1289
01:11:03,875 --> 01:11:06,625
rather than execution."
1290
01:11:06,709 --> 01:11:09,458
It made us start
to think more critically
1291
01:11:09,542 --> 01:11:13,709
about the propriety
of a death-in-prison sentence
1292
01:11:13,792 --> 01:11:15,834
for any child.
1293
01:11:15,917 --> 01:11:19,667
We impose life without parole
on people we think
will never change,
1294
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:21,959
are beyond redemption and hope.
1295
01:11:22,041 --> 01:11:24,792
All children change. They grow.
1296
01:11:24,875 --> 01:11:27,375
And to condemn them
at any point
1297
01:11:27,458 --> 01:11:30,000
during that process
seems unfair.
1298
01:11:30,083 --> 01:11:32,583
Newscaster 1:
The Supreme Court heard
arguments today
1299
01:11:32,667 --> 01:11:35,375
about the propriety
of imposing life sentences
1300
01:11:35,458 --> 01:11:37,500
on some of the country's
youngest criminals
1301
01:11:37,583 --> 01:11:39,458
for crimes that
do not involve murder.
1302
01:11:39,542 --> 01:11:41,750
Do they belong
behind bars forever?
1303
01:11:41,834 --> 01:11:44,667
Or should they have a chance,
someday, at freedom?
1304
01:11:44,750 --> 01:11:47,625
Newscaster 2:
The cases before the court
today were both from Florida,
1305
01:11:47,709 --> 01:11:51,166
a defendant who was 13 when
he raped a 72-year-old woman
1306
01:11:51,250 --> 01:11:55,750
and a 16-year-old who committed
armed burglary and assault.
1307
01:11:55,834 --> 01:12:00,000
We're very hopeful that we can
create the kind of jurisprudence
1308
01:12:00,083 --> 01:12:03,041
that sentences children
rationally and appropriately,
1309
01:12:03,125 --> 01:12:05,208
and we concede that some kids
are gonna have to be punished,
1310
01:12:05,291 --> 01:12:06,583
and have to be sent to prison,
1311
01:12:06,667 --> 01:12:08,000
but we don't believe
that any child,
1312
01:12:08,083 --> 01:12:09,333
particularly a child of 13,
1313
01:12:09,417 --> 01:12:11,333
should ever be condemned
to die in prison.
1314
01:12:11,417 --> 01:12:13,000
And we'll wait to see
what the court says.
1315
01:12:13,083 --> 01:12:15,333
What about the argument
that you don't know
1316
01:12:15,417 --> 01:12:17,375
what the child's
going to become?
1317
01:12:17,458 --> 01:12:19,208
Well, I think that's right,
we don't know,
1318
01:12:19,291 --> 01:12:21,208
but we do know that when
we intervene with children
1319
01:12:21,291 --> 01:12:23,166
our chance of success
is so much greater
1320
01:12:23,250 --> 01:12:24,792
than when we intervene
with adults.
1321
01:12:24,875 --> 01:12:26,375
Which is why we shouldn't
condemn children
1322
01:12:26,458 --> 01:12:28,250
in the way
that we condemn adults.
1323
01:12:28,333 --> 01:12:29,709
My brother colleague is here,
1324
01:12:29,792 --> 01:12:32,291
I'll turn things over to him
at this point.
1325
01:12:32,375 --> 01:12:34,542
Bright:
One of Bryan's great gifts
1326
01:12:34,625 --> 01:12:36,792
is to be able to see how
you can take one body of law
1327
01:12:36,875 --> 01:12:38,709
and apply it somewhere else.
1328
01:12:38,792 --> 01:12:41,166
He used the death penalty law
1329
01:12:41,250 --> 01:12:45,542
and he started challenging
these life-without-parole
sentencings for children,
1330
01:12:45,625 --> 01:12:47,333
that that no matter what
somebody does,
1331
01:12:47,417 --> 01:12:51,333
you have to take into account
their youthfulness,
1332
01:12:51,417 --> 01:12:53,542
their lack of maturity,
lack of judgement,
1333
01:12:53,625 --> 01:12:55,000
and all those things,
1334
01:12:55,083 --> 01:12:56,583
in trying to come up
with a sentence
1335
01:12:56,667 --> 01:12:58,792
that's proportionate
to the crime.
1336
01:13:00,792 --> 01:13:02,542
Stevenson:
We challenged life
without parole
1337
01:13:02,625 --> 01:13:05,625
for kids who had been convicted
of non-homicide offenses.
1338
01:13:05,709 --> 01:13:10,125
And then we challenged
mandatory life-without-parole
sentences for any child,
1339
01:13:10,208 --> 01:13:12,583
where the court
doesn't even consider the fact
1340
01:13:12,667 --> 01:13:15,542
that we're talking about
a 15-year-old or 16-year-old
1341
01:13:15,625 --> 01:13:17,875
or 17-year-old.
1342
01:13:17,959 --> 01:13:20,917
And we won these cases
at the U.S. Supreme Court.
1343
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,583
To punish people
constitutionally
1344
01:13:24,667 --> 01:13:27,291
we have to be committed
to fairness,
1345
01:13:27,375 --> 01:13:29,709
we have to be committed
to reliability,
1346
01:13:29,792 --> 01:13:33,125
and we have to be committed
to punishments that are humane.
1347
01:13:34,834 --> 01:13:36,458
Because how we punish,
1348
01:13:36,542 --> 01:13:38,291
how we treat the disfavored,
1349
01:13:38,375 --> 01:13:39,917
the marginalized, the poor,
1350
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:41,875
the condemned,
the incarcerated,
1351
01:13:41,959 --> 01:13:44,458
doesn't just say
something about them;
1352
01:13:44,542 --> 01:13:47,166
it says something about us too.
1353
01:13:47,250 --> 01:13:49,458
I really believe
it's the broken among us
1354
01:13:49,542 --> 01:13:51,542
that can teach us the way
compassion is supposed to work.
1355
01:13:51,625 --> 01:13:53,041
It's the broken
that can teach us
1356
01:13:53,125 --> 01:13:54,542
the way mercy
is supposed to work.
1357
01:13:54,625 --> 01:13:56,166
It's the broken
that can show us
1358
01:13:56,250 --> 01:13:59,375
the power of redemption
and justice.
1359
01:14:17,375 --> 01:14:21,166
- ( camera shutters clicking )
- ( reporters clamoring )
1360
01:14:21,250 --> 01:14:24,166
Ray! Ray!
1361
01:14:24,250 --> 01:14:26,917
( wailing )
1362
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,583
- Oh, my God!
- Ray!
1363
01:14:31,083 --> 01:14:35,834
Oh, I love you so much!
1364
01:14:35,917 --> 01:14:37,834
Oh, my God, Ray!
1365
01:14:37,917 --> 01:14:40,792
Oh! ( sobbing )
1366
01:14:40,875 --> 01:14:44,166
Oh, Lord. Thank you, Jesus!
1367
01:14:44,250 --> 01:14:46,417
Oh, Ray, I love you.
1368
01:14:46,500 --> 01:14:49,250
Oh, Lord.
1369
01:14:49,333 --> 01:14:51,417
( sobbing )
1370
01:14:51,500 --> 01:14:55,000
We wanna thank
all of y'all for bein' here.
1371
01:14:55,083 --> 01:14:58,667
This is a very, very happy day.
1372
01:14:58,750 --> 01:15:04,250
It's a tragic day too, because
Mr. Hinton has spent 30 years
locked in a five-by-eight cell
1373
01:15:04,333 --> 01:15:07,041
where the State of Alabama
tried to kill him every day.
1374
01:15:07,125 --> 01:15:11,291
His case, in my judgement,
is a case study
1375
01:15:11,375 --> 01:15:14,208
in what's wrong with our system.
1376
01:15:14,291 --> 01:15:16,792
He was convicted
because he's poor.
1377
01:15:16,875 --> 01:15:19,500
We have a system that treats you
better if you're rich and guilty
1378
01:15:19,583 --> 01:15:21,875
than if you're
poor and innocent,
and his case proves it.
1379
01:15:21,959 --> 01:15:26,000
We have a system that is
compromised by racial bias,
and his case proved it.
1380
01:15:26,083 --> 01:15:28,417
We have a system
that doesn't do the right thing
1381
01:15:28,500 --> 01:15:30,083
when the right thing
is apparent.
1382
01:15:30,208 --> 01:15:32,834
A prosecutor should have
done these tests years ago,
1383
01:15:32,917 --> 01:15:34,917
and they didn't,
and that's a shame.
1384
01:15:41,375 --> 01:15:44,500
Hinton:
One day Bryan
came to the prison.
1385
01:15:44,583 --> 01:15:48,500
He said, "Ray,
the judges in Alabama...
1386
01:15:48,583 --> 01:15:50,709
just not gonna do
the right thing.
1387
01:15:50,792 --> 01:15:52,875
I want to take your case
1388
01:15:52,959 --> 01:15:56,667
to the United States
Supreme Court."
1389
01:15:56,750 --> 01:15:59,542
Two years later,
the United States Supreme Court
1390
01:15:59,583 --> 01:16:01,792
did something that
it had never done
1391
01:16:01,875 --> 01:16:04,583
in the history
of the court:
1392
01:16:04,709 --> 01:16:09,333
All nine judges ruled that
I was entitled to a new trial.
1393
01:16:09,375 --> 01:16:11,542
( cameras clicking,
onlookers chattering )
1394
01:16:14,083 --> 01:16:17,291
Stevenson:
Right before
Mr. Hinton was released,
1395
01:16:17,375 --> 01:16:19,291
we were talking.
1396
01:16:19,375 --> 01:16:22,917
He was telling me,
"I can't hate people.
1397
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,709
I don't want to stay in a prison
when I leave here."
1398
01:16:27,375 --> 01:16:29,917
He said, "It's gonna be hard,
1399
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:32,875
but I think
I've actually decided
1400
01:16:32,959 --> 01:16:35,250
that I'm going to forgive."
1401
01:16:42,667 --> 01:16:45,000
Hinton:
Every day I have to
live with the fact
1402
01:16:45,083 --> 01:16:50,417
that I lost 30 years
of my life.
1403
01:16:52,083 --> 01:16:54,750
The system,
some people would say,
1404
01:16:54,834 --> 01:16:57,458
"It worked because you got out."
1405
01:16:58,583 --> 01:17:00,333
And to those people I say,
1406
01:17:00,417 --> 01:17:03,917
"If the system had worked,
I never would've went in."
1407
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:06,041
Lester Bailey:
To the west and to the east,
1408
01:17:06,125 --> 01:17:08,125
to the north
and to the south...
1409
01:17:08,208 --> 01:17:10,333
Hinton:
I'm not so much
worried about the system
1410
01:17:10,458 --> 01:17:13,250
as I'm worryin'
about the people
that control the system.
1411
01:17:13,333 --> 01:17:15,709
Preacher:
What I want to use for
a subject this morning is,
1412
01:17:15,792 --> 01:17:18,166
bad things happen
to good people.
1413
01:17:18,250 --> 01:17:23,375
- Amen.
- Bad things
happen to good people.
1414
01:17:23,458 --> 01:17:26,500
Hinton:
Nobody in the state of Alabama,
1415
01:17:26,583 --> 01:17:29,959
governor, lieutenant governor,
1416
01:17:30,041 --> 01:17:32,542
senators...
1417
01:17:32,625 --> 01:17:35,917
have had the decency to say,
1418
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:38,208
"Mr. Hinton, we're sorry."
1419
01:17:38,291 --> 01:17:41,583
I truly don't want to believe
1420
01:17:41,667 --> 01:17:43,208
that they haven't apologized
1421
01:17:43,291 --> 01:17:45,834
because of the color
of my skin.
1422
01:17:47,959 --> 01:17:51,375
I guess men of power
1423
01:17:51,458 --> 01:17:54,583
feel that they don't
have to apologize
1424
01:17:54,667 --> 01:17:57,166
to a man of no power.
1425
01:17:59,917 --> 01:18:01,834
( water running,
dishes clattering )
1426
01:18:03,959 --> 01:18:06,875
Stevenson:
We've got a political culture
where our politicians think
1427
01:18:06,959 --> 01:18:10,959
that if they say "I'm sorry,"
that makes them look weak.
1428
01:18:11,041 --> 01:18:13,709
I actually think being willing
to say "I'm sorry"
1429
01:18:13,792 --> 01:18:15,000
when you've made a mistake
1430
01:18:15,083 --> 01:18:17,250
is how you become strong.
1431
01:18:17,333 --> 01:18:19,417
You show me two people who
have been in love for 50 years,
1432
01:18:19,500 --> 01:18:22,375
I'll show you two people
who have learned how to
apologize to one another,
1433
01:18:22,458 --> 01:18:25,041
to navigate the hardships,
the complexities,
1434
01:18:25,125 --> 01:18:28,500
to show humility
when they offend.
1435
01:18:30,959 --> 01:18:33,917
And I don't think we've done
much thinking about that
1436
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,000
in this country.
1437
01:18:36,083 --> 01:18:40,709
I feel like we haven't learned
collectively to apologize.
1438
01:18:42,542 --> 01:18:45,333
And when I think
about the courts,
1439
01:18:45,417 --> 01:18:47,792
I don't think that
they're excluded.
1440
01:18:47,875 --> 01:18:51,083
I think the United States
Supreme Court should apologize
1441
01:18:51,166 --> 01:18:53,834
for its role, its complicity,
1442
01:18:53,917 --> 01:18:56,792
in fostering a society
that has excluded,
1443
01:18:56,875 --> 01:18:58,959
marginalized and brutalized
1444
01:18:59,041 --> 01:19:02,458
people of color
for two centuries.
1445
01:19:02,542 --> 01:19:05,458
I still believe in
the rule of law.
1446
01:19:05,542 --> 01:19:09,750
I just have come to recognize
that we're not going to achieve
the justice that we need,
1447
01:19:09,834 --> 01:19:13,500
the equality we seek,
if we stay in the courts alone.
1448
01:19:15,500 --> 01:19:19,250
The people with power
are unwilling to get proximate.
1449
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:24,583
They won't do
uncomfortable things.
1450
01:19:24,667 --> 01:19:26,083
( chatter )
1451
01:19:31,083 --> 01:19:32,834
I remember
when I was a little boy,
1452
01:19:32,917 --> 01:19:34,291
my grandmother
would come up to me
1453
01:19:34,375 --> 01:19:35,959
and she'd give me these hugs
1454
01:19:36,041 --> 01:19:37,333
and she'd squeeze me so tightly
1455
01:19:37,417 --> 01:19:39,625
I thought she was
trying to hurt me.
1456
01:19:39,709 --> 01:19:41,667
My grandmother would see me
an hour later and she'd say,
1457
01:19:41,750 --> 01:19:44,083
"Bryan, do you still
feel me hugging you?"
1458
01:19:44,166 --> 01:19:48,166
And if I said no,
she would jump on me again.
1459
01:19:48,250 --> 01:19:50,208
She wanted me to understand
1460
01:19:50,291 --> 01:19:55,083
what proximity can mean,
how it can empower you.
1461
01:19:58,166 --> 01:20:00,542
My grandmother was an expert
1462
01:20:00,625 --> 01:20:04,041
in fostering reflection.
1463
01:20:04,125 --> 01:20:06,792
And because
she was the daughter
of enslaved people,
1464
01:20:06,875 --> 01:20:09,709
she understood
the power of narrative.
1465
01:20:09,792 --> 01:20:14,458
Her father would talk to her
every day about what he went
through as an enslaved person.
1466
01:20:16,458 --> 01:20:20,083
And she had these various
strategies and tactics
1467
01:20:20,166 --> 01:20:23,125
for getting me
to understand things.
1468
01:20:23,208 --> 01:20:26,792
One of the things she did
when I was younger,
1469
01:20:26,875 --> 01:20:29,125
she said, "We're gonna go
to Bowling Green, Virginia."
1470
01:20:29,208 --> 01:20:31,875
She said,
"Bring your best suit."
1471
01:20:31,959 --> 01:20:36,083
We got down there,
it was the middle
of the summer, a hot day.
1472
01:20:36,166 --> 01:20:38,959
We start walking down
this dirt road.
1473
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:42,917
I said, "Mama,
where are we going?"
1474
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:44,709
She said, "Don't worry."
1475
01:20:46,291 --> 01:20:48,542
We got to this field
1476
01:20:48,625 --> 01:20:53,000
and there was a shack
in the middle of the field.
1477
01:20:53,083 --> 01:20:55,041
She said, "We're gonna
go inside this shack,"
1478
01:20:55,125 --> 01:20:56,750
and when we go
inside this shack,
1479
01:20:56,834 --> 01:20:58,834
you're gonna hear something."
I said, "OK."
1480
01:21:10,291 --> 01:21:14,917
I was standing in there,
and I couldn't hear anything.
1481
01:21:15,000 --> 01:21:17,709
And then I noticed
that my grandmother was crying.
1482
01:21:17,792 --> 01:21:19,792
I'd never seen her cry before.
1483
01:21:19,875 --> 01:21:22,583
And when she started crying,
I started crying.
1484
01:21:24,166 --> 01:21:27,792
She squeezed my hand
and she said, "Stop crying."
1485
01:21:27,875 --> 01:21:29,625
I said,
"But I didn't hear anything."
1486
01:21:29,709 --> 01:21:31,792
She said, "Yes, you did."
1487
01:21:31,875 --> 01:21:34,375
I said, "No, Mama,
I didn't hear anything."
She said, "Yes, you did."
1488
01:21:42,208 --> 01:21:44,083
I moved to Montgomery in part
1489
01:21:44,166 --> 01:21:46,458
because
that's where the courts were.
1490
01:21:46,542 --> 01:21:48,375
At the time when I moved here,
1491
01:21:48,458 --> 01:21:51,417
I didn't know about the history
of the slave trade.
1492
01:21:51,500 --> 01:21:54,417
This was a community
1493
01:21:54,500 --> 01:21:58,709
shaped by slavery...
1494
01:21:58,792 --> 01:22:01,625
and when I started
realizing that,
1495
01:22:01,709 --> 01:22:03,417
things began to change.
1496
01:22:05,250 --> 01:22:07,709
I'll sometimes walk
down to the river,
1497
01:22:07,792 --> 01:22:11,834
which was a portal for
the domestic slave trade.
1498
01:22:11,917 --> 01:22:13,542
And I was sitting down there
one day
1499
01:22:13,625 --> 01:22:15,917
thinking about my grandmother.
1500
01:22:17,750 --> 01:22:21,375
That shack was the slave cabin
where her father was born.
1501
01:22:24,083 --> 01:22:27,125
And all of a sudden,
sitting there,
1502
01:22:27,208 --> 01:22:31,458
it felt like I could hear
the sounds of enslaved people
coming into that river.
1503
01:22:34,750 --> 01:22:38,583
And I understood what
my grandmother was teaching me.
1504
01:22:38,667 --> 01:22:41,000
I can hear it.
1505
01:22:41,083 --> 01:22:44,959
When I go into jails
and prisons, there's a sound.
1506
01:22:45,041 --> 01:22:47,500
And it's the sound
of suffering.
1507
01:22:47,583 --> 01:22:52,417
It's the sound of agony.
It's the sound of misery.
1508
01:22:52,500 --> 01:22:54,208
And when you hear that misery,
1509
01:22:54,291 --> 01:22:57,542
when you understand that,
it will push you to do things
1510
01:22:57,625 --> 01:23:01,709
that you won't otherwise
be able to do.
1511
01:23:01,792 --> 01:23:05,750
There's a history
of untold cruelty
1512
01:23:05,834 --> 01:23:09,834
that hides in silence
in this country.
1513
01:23:09,917 --> 01:23:14,667
And I think there are things
we can hear in these spaces
1514
01:23:14,750 --> 01:23:17,125
that can motivate us.
1515
01:23:23,959 --> 01:23:25,792
( chatter )
1516
01:23:31,875 --> 01:23:33,417
Stevenson:
We are so thrilled,
1517
01:23:33,500 --> 01:23:36,250
so thrilled that
so many of you are here.
1518
01:23:36,333 --> 01:23:41,250
We think something really
important has to happen
in this country.
1519
01:23:41,333 --> 01:23:44,083
We think we've got to change
the narrative
1520
01:23:44,166 --> 01:23:46,917
when it comes to race
and racial inequality.
1521
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:49,917
I don't believe that
people who live in Alabama,
1522
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:53,417
I don't think that people
who live in America, are free.
1523
01:23:53,500 --> 01:23:57,041
We're going to ask you
to do something brave today.
1524
01:23:57,125 --> 01:24:01,834
We're gonna ask you
to go to lynching sites
and bear witness.
1525
01:24:01,917 --> 01:24:04,166
We're gonna ask you
to go to lynching sites
1526
01:24:04,250 --> 01:24:08,333
and recover
a part of this history
that has been hidden.
1527
01:24:08,417 --> 01:24:10,125
We're going to give you jars,
1528
01:24:10,208 --> 01:24:12,000
and we're going to ask you
to go to these sites
1529
01:24:12,083 --> 01:24:14,583
and to put the soil in the jar
1530
01:24:14,667 --> 01:24:16,333
and to honor and remember
1531
01:24:16,417 --> 01:24:18,333
the lives of
these victims lost.
1532
01:24:18,417 --> 01:24:20,125
When you go into these sites,
1533
01:24:20,208 --> 01:24:22,000
sometimes they're uncomfortable.
1534
01:24:22,083 --> 01:24:24,125
They're places
that feel very desolate,
1535
01:24:24,208 --> 01:24:27,333
they're places that feel
even a little menacing.
1536
01:24:27,417 --> 01:24:29,917
And so, it is in many ways
1537
01:24:30,000 --> 01:24:34,125
an act of courage and bravery
to go back and do it.
1538
01:24:34,208 --> 01:24:35,917
( rain pattering )
1539
01:25:08,959 --> 01:25:11,208
Boy:
On January 2nd, 1901,
1540
01:25:11,291 --> 01:25:15,542
a black man named Louis McAdams
was lynched near Wilsonville.
1541
01:25:17,291 --> 01:25:19,291
Mr. McAdams had been accused
1542
01:25:19,375 --> 01:25:23,583
of attempting to murder
a prominent white merchant.
1543
01:25:25,709 --> 01:25:29,917
The vast majority
of documented lynch victims
1544
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:31,917
never had a chance
to stand trial
1545
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:35,458
for their alleged crimes...
1546
01:25:37,750 --> 01:25:40,166
and like Mr. McAdams,
1547
01:25:40,250 --> 01:25:43,792
took the presumption
of innocence with them
to the grave.
1548
01:25:51,834 --> 01:25:53,083
Man:
Be careful.
1549
01:26:11,083 --> 01:26:14,166
Stevenson:
When we bring these jars
of soil into a space like this
1550
01:26:14,250 --> 01:26:17,375
and we put them on display,
we just make tangible,
1551
01:26:17,458 --> 01:26:22,083
we make visible, this history
of terror and suffering,
1552
01:26:22,166 --> 01:26:25,041
and we would resurrect
the lives of these people
1553
01:26:25,125 --> 01:26:26,834
who have been forgotten,
1554
01:26:26,917 --> 01:26:30,667
who were never honored,
who were never protected.
1555
01:26:33,291 --> 01:26:37,250
When I see the jar,
it tells its own story.
1556
01:26:37,333 --> 01:26:39,458
There's a variation in color,
1557
01:26:39,542 --> 01:26:43,166
down on the Gulf Coast,
where its sandy and light,
1558
01:26:43,250 --> 01:26:46,083
in the Black Belt,
where it's really dark
and rich,
1559
01:26:46,166 --> 01:26:48,834
in the northern part,
where the clay is red.
1560
01:26:48,917 --> 01:26:51,709
There's this geographic story,
1561
01:26:51,792 --> 01:26:55,458
but there's also a story
about our history.
1562
01:26:55,542 --> 01:26:57,917
There's sweat in that soil,
1563
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:00,250
the sweat of enslaved people;
1564
01:27:00,333 --> 01:27:02,208
there are the tears
of people who suffered
1565
01:27:02,291 --> 01:27:04,917
when they were being
brutalized and lynched;
1566
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,709
there's the blood
of these victims.
1567
01:27:09,166 --> 01:27:11,750
But there's also hope
in that soil.
1568
01:27:14,291 --> 01:27:16,834
People say to me,
"Why do you want to talk
about all these bad things?
1569
01:27:16,917 --> 01:27:18,792
I don't want to hear about
native genocide,
1570
01:27:18,875 --> 01:27:20,166
I don't want
to hear about slavery,
1571
01:27:20,250 --> 01:27:21,792
I don't want to
hear about lynching,
1572
01:27:21,875 --> 01:27:26,417
I don't want to hear
about all that bad stuff."
1573
01:27:26,500 --> 01:27:29,917
I think there is a need
for a cultural movement
1574
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:32,500
that pushes us
to remember more.
1575
01:27:36,125 --> 01:27:38,333
For me, it is
about truth-telling
1576
01:27:38,417 --> 01:27:42,375
in a way that is designed
to get us to remember.
1577
01:27:42,458 --> 01:27:45,667
And not just remember
for memory's sake,
1578
01:27:45,750 --> 01:27:48,667
but get us to remember
so that we can recover,
1579
01:27:48,750 --> 01:27:52,750
we can restore, we can fight,
to claim a different future.
1580
01:28:05,417 --> 01:28:08,041
Stevenson:
So, there are a few things
1581
01:28:08,125 --> 01:28:11,458
that we think have to happen
in this country
1582
01:28:11,542 --> 01:28:13,500
that have not happened.
1583
01:28:13,583 --> 01:28:16,291
In South Africa,
there was a recognition
that after Apartheid
1584
01:28:16,375 --> 01:28:19,333
they could not recover without
truth and reconciliation.
1585
01:28:19,417 --> 01:28:22,875
In Rwanda,
there is a recognition
that there won't be recovery
1586
01:28:22,959 --> 01:28:24,792
without truth
and reconciliation.
1587
01:28:24,875 --> 01:28:26,500
If you go to Germany today,
1588
01:28:26,583 --> 01:28:28,625
you can't go 100 meters
in Berlin, Germany,
1589
01:28:28,709 --> 01:28:30,417
without seeing markers
or stones or things
1590
01:28:30,500 --> 01:28:32,166
that have been put in the ground
to mark the places
1591
01:28:32,250 --> 01:28:33,959
where Jewish families
were abducted
1592
01:28:34,041 --> 01:28:35,583
and taken
to the concentration camps.
1593
01:28:35,667 --> 01:28:37,875
The Germans actually want you
to go to Auschwitz
1594
01:28:37,959 --> 01:28:42,125
and reflect soberly
on the history of the Holocaust.
1595
01:28:42,208 --> 01:28:45,291
In this country,
we do the opposite.
1596
01:28:52,250 --> 01:28:55,542
Stevenson:
We're living in a region
where the landscape is littered
1597
01:28:55,625 --> 01:28:58,333
with the iconography
of the Confederacy.
1598
01:29:01,125 --> 01:29:03,375
When I look around and I see
1599
01:29:03,458 --> 01:29:06,583
the iconography of the glory
of enslavement
1600
01:29:06,667 --> 01:29:08,458
and the era of lynching,
1601
01:29:08,542 --> 01:29:11,208
I say we're not
a very healthy place.
1602
01:29:11,291 --> 01:29:15,458
And a lot of it emerged
in the 1950s,
1603
01:29:15,542 --> 01:29:18,959
when people are talking
about civil rights.
1604
01:29:19,041 --> 01:29:20,750
Students ( chanting ):
...six, eight, we don't
want to integrate!
1605
01:29:20,834 --> 01:29:24,041
Two, four, six, eight,
we don't want to integrate!
1606
01:29:24,125 --> 01:29:26,250
Stevenson:
This cultural movement
was designed
1607
01:29:26,333 --> 01:29:27,792
to make it feel like
1608
01:29:27,875 --> 01:29:29,917
it was every
white person's duty
1609
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:32,125
to fight against integration.
1610
01:29:32,208 --> 01:29:33,750
Why did you come out of school?
1611
01:29:33,834 --> 01:29:36,083
Because I'm not goin'
to school with niggers.
1612
01:29:36,166 --> 01:29:38,417
Stevenson:
I don't think we've done
a very good job in this country
1613
01:29:38,500 --> 01:29:40,792
of understanding
1614
01:29:40,875 --> 01:29:43,375
how vast and intense
1615
01:29:43,458 --> 01:29:45,583
the opposition
to civil rights was.
1616
01:29:45,667 --> 01:29:49,959
We don't want no niggers
in school with us!
1617
01:29:50,041 --> 01:29:54,166
Stevenson:
I think the civil rights
community won the legal battle,
1618
01:29:54,250 --> 01:29:56,959
but the narrative battle
was won by people
1619
01:29:57,041 --> 01:29:59,375
who were allowed
to hold onto this view
1620
01:29:59,458 --> 01:30:02,750
that there are differences
between people who are black
and people who are white.
1621
01:30:06,083 --> 01:30:10,458
Stevenson:
And that's why I think this
narrative of racial difference
1622
01:30:10,542 --> 01:30:12,709
survived the civil rights era.
1623
01:30:14,542 --> 01:30:18,875
I think we have to pay attention
to the narrative battle.
1624
01:30:18,959 --> 01:30:22,208
We've got to do better
at creating a narrative
1625
01:30:22,291 --> 01:30:25,041
that pushes us
into a new place.
1626
01:30:28,583 --> 01:30:31,291
I don't think we've created
many places in America
1627
01:30:31,375 --> 01:30:33,166
where we tell
the history of slavery
1628
01:30:33,250 --> 01:30:36,000
or the history of lynching,
the history of segregation
1629
01:30:36,083 --> 01:30:38,959
in a way
that motivates everybody--
1630
01:30:39,041 --> 01:30:41,417
black, white,
brown, young, old--
1631
01:30:41,500 --> 01:30:44,667
to feel inspired to say,
"Never again."
1632
01:30:44,750 --> 01:30:49,667
And that's the genesis
behind this effort
1633
01:30:49,750 --> 01:30:52,375
that we're now engaged in
1634
01:30:52,458 --> 01:30:55,750
to build a memorial
and to build a museum.
1635
01:31:07,959 --> 01:31:10,542
Stevenson:
We divide the museum into eras.
1636
01:31:10,625 --> 01:31:13,125
You have Era One,
which is on slavery,
1637
01:31:13,208 --> 01:31:15,208
Era Two, which is on lynching,
1638
01:31:15,291 --> 01:31:17,250
Era Three,
which is on segregation,
1639
01:31:17,333 --> 01:31:20,125
and Era Four on
mass incarceration.
1640
01:31:20,208 --> 01:31:22,333
We call this a narrative museum
1641
01:31:22,417 --> 01:31:26,542
because on this wall
we actually present a thesis,
1642
01:31:26,625 --> 01:31:31,959
a story, about the history of
racial inequality in America.
1643
01:31:50,792 --> 01:31:53,792
Stevenson:
I want there to be repair
in this country
1644
01:31:53,875 --> 01:31:55,667
not just for
communities of color
1645
01:31:55,750 --> 01:31:59,375
that have been victimized by
bigotry and discrimination,
1646
01:31:59,458 --> 01:32:02,125
I want it to be for all of us.
1647
01:32:02,208 --> 01:32:05,750
I don't think we can get free
1648
01:32:05,834 --> 01:32:08,834
until we're willing to tell
the truth about our history.
1649
01:32:08,917 --> 01:32:10,750
I do believe in truth
and reconciliation,
1650
01:32:10,834 --> 01:32:13,000
I just think that truth and
reconciliation is sequential,
1651
01:32:13,083 --> 01:32:16,291
that you can't have
the reconciliation
without the truth.
1652
01:32:19,458 --> 01:32:22,667
I feel like
we're doing something
important in Montgomery.
1653
01:32:27,583 --> 01:32:30,125
It is a place where,
if we can show
1654
01:32:30,208 --> 01:32:35,625
that truth
can set us free...
1655
01:32:35,709 --> 01:32:39,250
that means we can
probably do it anywhere.
1656
01:32:39,333 --> 01:32:43,333
( indistinct chatter )
1657
01:32:43,417 --> 01:32:45,291
Hey-hey-hey-hey-hey!
1658
01:32:45,375 --> 01:32:47,291
( laughter, chatter )
1659
01:32:47,375 --> 01:32:49,375
Stevenson:
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
1660
01:32:49,458 --> 01:32:52,000
Stevenson:
You know, my grandmother died
when I was college,
1661
01:32:52,083 --> 01:32:55,709
it was before I made any
decision to go to law school.
1662
01:32:57,333 --> 01:33:00,625
And I think if my grandmother
gave me anything,
1663
01:33:00,709 --> 01:33:04,750
she gave me the confidence to
believe things I haven't seen.
1664
01:33:06,041 --> 01:33:07,709
I'd never met a lawyer before,
1665
01:33:07,792 --> 01:33:09,542
I certainly never met
a black lawyer before.
1666
01:33:09,625 --> 01:33:10,834
So I had to believe
I could be one,
1667
01:33:10,917 --> 01:33:13,375
even though
I had never seen one.
1668
01:33:13,458 --> 01:33:17,166
We had to believe we could
create an institution that
could help condemned prisoners
1669
01:33:17,250 --> 01:33:21,291
in a state that was very
hostile to condemned prisoners.
1670
01:33:21,375 --> 01:33:23,834
We had to believe
we could build a museum
1671
01:33:23,917 --> 01:33:25,959
and create a national memorial
1672
01:33:26,041 --> 01:33:28,500
that honors thousands
of victims of lynchings,
1673
01:33:28,583 --> 01:33:32,583
even though there wasn't
really precedent for that.
1674
01:33:32,667 --> 01:33:34,750
( crowd applauding, cheering )
1675
01:33:42,834 --> 01:33:46,291
Stevenson:
Tonight we are taking
this broken history,
1676
01:33:46,375 --> 01:33:49,166
this denial of inequality
and injustice,
1677
01:33:49,250 --> 01:33:50,917
and we're trying
to do something with it.
1678
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:53,417
Montgomery is not a perfect
place, it's a broken place,
1679
01:33:53,500 --> 01:33:56,458
because we haven't done
all the things we need to do
to get to justice.
1680
01:33:56,542 --> 01:33:59,375
But I am persuaded tonight
that we can do it.
1681
01:33:59,458 --> 01:34:01,792
And tonight I want you
to join us in making
1682
01:34:01,875 --> 01:34:04,875
the beginning of this movement,
this legacy museum,
1683
01:34:04,959 --> 01:34:06,750
this memorial
for peace and justice,
1684
01:34:06,834 --> 01:34:09,667
more than a monument,
more than a statue,
more than a place.
1685
01:34:09,750 --> 01:34:11,875
We want you to help us
make it a movement.
1686
01:34:11,959 --> 01:34:14,333
We want to create something
that is lasting and changing,
1687
01:34:14,417 --> 01:34:17,458
and we believe tonight
that if we believe in freedom,
1688
01:34:17,542 --> 01:34:18,709
if we believe in love,
1689
01:34:18,792 --> 01:34:20,542
we can create
a more just society.
1690
01:34:20,625 --> 01:34:21,750
I want to thank all of you
1691
01:34:21,834 --> 01:34:24,000
for being with us,
standing with us,
1692
01:34:24,083 --> 01:34:27,208
fighting for us, but mostly,
staying with us,
1693
01:34:27,291 --> 01:34:30,625
as we try to create
a better tomorrow.
1694
01:34:41,583 --> 01:34:45,250
Stevenson:
God, we want every heart,
every spirit,
1695
01:34:45,333 --> 01:34:49,583
every mind, every soul
that walks through this place
1696
01:34:49,667 --> 01:34:51,959
to remember.
1697
01:34:52,041 --> 01:34:55,041
But we don't want them
to just remember,
1698
01:34:55,125 --> 01:34:58,417
we want them to be inspired,
we want them to have hope,
1699
01:34:58,500 --> 01:35:01,583
we want them to have courage,
1700
01:35:01,667 --> 01:35:04,709
we want them to have faith.
1701
01:35:04,792 --> 01:35:07,750
When they leave this place,
we want grace
1702
01:35:07,834 --> 01:35:12,750
and mercy and love
to order their steps.
1703
01:35:12,834 --> 01:35:14,542
Thank you,
1704
01:35:14,625 --> 01:35:15,625
God bless you,
1705
01:35:15,709 --> 01:35:17,875
please be with us always.
1706
01:35:17,959 --> 01:35:20,000
( all applauding )
1707
01:35:26,500 --> 01:35:30,041
Stevenson:
We have a monument
for every county in America
1708
01:35:30,125 --> 01:35:32,291
where a lynching took place.
1709
01:35:32,375 --> 01:35:35,458
And we have a replica
of each of those monuments
1710
01:35:35,542 --> 01:35:38,000
at the memorial site.
1711
01:35:38,083 --> 01:35:40,792
And we're asking communities
to organize
1712
01:35:40,875 --> 01:35:42,875
and come and claim
their monument
1713
01:35:42,959 --> 01:35:46,208
and bring it back
to their community.
1714
01:35:46,291 --> 01:35:48,125
There are hundreds of lynchings
1715
01:35:48,208 --> 01:35:51,458
where thousands of people
were complicit, were involved.
1716
01:35:51,542 --> 01:35:56,208
Those lynchings represent
a particular need
1717
01:35:56,291 --> 01:35:58,375
for communities to say more,
to do more,
1718
01:35:58,458 --> 01:36:00,500
to memorialize these spots,
1719
01:36:00,583 --> 01:36:02,709
to commit to
protecting themselves
1720
01:36:02,792 --> 01:36:06,583
from that legacy
perpetuating racial bias
for another generation.
1721
01:36:09,250 --> 01:36:11,041
I believe we're all more
1722
01:36:11,125 --> 01:36:13,750
than the worst thing
we've ever done.
1723
01:36:13,834 --> 01:36:17,166
We are a slave state,
but we're more than slavers.
1724
01:36:17,250 --> 01:36:19,667
We are a lynching state,
but we're more than lynchers.
1725
01:36:19,750 --> 01:36:23,542
We're a segregation state,
but that's not all we are.
1726
01:36:26,083 --> 01:36:28,208
The other things we are
1727
01:36:28,291 --> 01:36:31,000
create an opportunity to
do things that are restorative,
1728
01:36:31,083 --> 01:36:34,166
that are rehabilitative,
that are redemptive,
1729
01:36:34,250 --> 01:36:38,291
that create possibilities
of reconciliation and repair.
1730
01:36:41,625 --> 01:36:44,458
I get frustrated when I hear
people talk about how
1731
01:36:44,542 --> 01:36:46,417
"If I had been living
during the time of slavery,
1732
01:36:46,500 --> 01:36:49,000
of course I would have been
an abolitionist."
1733
01:36:49,083 --> 01:36:52,375
And most people think that if
they had been living when mobs
were gathering
1734
01:36:52,458 --> 01:36:54,250
to lynch black people
on the courthouse lawn,
1735
01:36:54,333 --> 01:36:56,375
they would have said something.
1736
01:36:56,458 --> 01:36:59,583
Everybody imagines that if they
were in Alabama in the 1960s
1737
01:36:59,667 --> 01:37:03,125
they would have been
marching with Dr. King.
1738
01:37:03,208 --> 01:37:04,834
And the truth of it is,
1739
01:37:04,917 --> 01:37:07,542
I don't think
you can claim that
1740
01:37:07,625 --> 01:37:10,834
if today you are watching
these systems be created
1741
01:37:10,917 --> 01:37:13,792
that are incarcerating
millions of people,
1742
01:37:13,875 --> 01:37:16,125
throwing away the lives
of millions of people,
1743
01:37:16,208 --> 01:37:19,583
destroying communities,
and you're doing nothing.
1744
01:37:23,000 --> 01:37:24,750
I think there's
something better
1745
01:37:24,834 --> 01:37:27,166
waiting for us
in this country
1746
01:37:27,250 --> 01:37:29,959
than another century
of conflict and tension
1747
01:37:30,041 --> 01:37:35,542
and burden, because we won't
face the legacy of our past.
1748
01:37:37,291 --> 01:37:40,458
I think it's important
that we understand
1749
01:37:40,542 --> 01:37:44,083
all the brutal,
all the ugly details,
1750
01:37:44,166 --> 01:37:46,208
because those are the things
that actually give rise
1751
01:37:46,291 --> 01:37:51,000
to what might allow us
to one day claim something
really beautiful.
1752
01:38:10,208 --> 01:38:13,291
♪ We've been 'buked ♪
1753
01:38:13,375 --> 01:38:18,625
♪ And we've been scorned ♪
1754
01:38:18,709 --> 01:38:23,667
♪ We been talked about ♪
1755
01:38:23,750 --> 01:38:28,625
♪ Sure as you' born ♪
1756
01:38:28,709 --> 01:38:34,375
♪ But we'll never ♪
1757
01:38:34,458 --> 01:38:38,208
♪ Turn back ♪
1758
01:38:38,291 --> 01:38:43,125
♪ No, we'll never ♪
1759
01:38:43,208 --> 01:38:48,250
♪ Turn back ♪
1760
01:38:48,333 --> 01:38:54,250
♪ Until we've all ♪
1761
01:38:54,333 --> 01:38:58,166
♪ Been freed ♪
1762
01:38:58,250 --> 01:39:02,166
♪ And we have ♪
1763
01:39:02,250 --> 01:39:08,125
♪ Equality ♪
1764
01:39:08,208 --> 01:39:12,166
♪ We have hung ♪
1765
01:39:12,250 --> 01:39:15,583
♪ Our heads ♪
1766
01:39:15,667 --> 01:39:19,250
♪ And cried ♪
1767
01:39:19,333 --> 01:39:23,125
♪ For all those ♪
1768
01:39:23,208 --> 01:39:26,208
♪ Like Lee ♪
1769
01:39:26,291 --> 01:39:30,041
♪ Who died ♪
1770
01:39:30,125 --> 01:39:34,041
♪ Died for you ♪
1771
01:39:34,125 --> 01:39:40,041
♪ And died for me ♪
1772
01:39:40,125 --> 01:39:44,208
♪ Died for the cause ♪
1773
01:39:44,291 --> 01:39:50,083
♪ Of equality ♪
1774
01:39:50,166 --> 01:39:56,083
♪ But we'll never ♪
1775
01:39:56,166 --> 01:40:01,291
♪ Turn back ♪
1776
01:40:01,375 --> 01:40:06,542
♪ No, we'll never ♪
1777
01:40:06,625 --> 01:40:12,250
♪ Turn back ♪
1778
01:40:12,333 --> 01:40:18,250
♪ Until we've all ♪
1779
01:40:18,333 --> 01:40:22,250
♪ Been freed ♪
1780
01:40:22,333 --> 01:40:27,250
♪ And we have ♪
1781
01:40:27,333 --> 01:40:33,250
♪ Equality ♪
1782
01:40:33,333 --> 01:40:37,250
♪ And we have ♪
1783
01:40:37,333 --> 01:40:43,291
♪ Equality ♪
146878
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