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1
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I couldn't see her any more.
I couldn't see the...
2
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..things that made her HER.
3
00:00:05,560 --> 00:00:07,439
They want to switch off her
machines,
4
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:08,959
and we want to keep them on.
5
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,239
They say she's in a lot of pain!
She is still your child!
6
00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:12,959
Yes! Yes, she is!
7
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So you just left her and me?
8
00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:16,599
That makes it
sound like I abandoned you.
9
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Yeah, cos you did.
10
00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:22,159
However you feel about what your
parents are doing, it's not about
11
00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,399
picking sides.
Of course it is.
12
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,239
And I'm on Marnie's side.
13
00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:29,159
We believe we can suggest a bias in
the treatment Marnie has received
14
00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:30,719
from Samantha Woodham.
15
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She perforated an artery.
16
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It sounds pretty deadly to me.
17
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Marnie, she's complicated.
18
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,439
But...you know, she's, er,
she's joyous.
19
00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:42,199
I really miss you.
20
00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,239
Do you think you'll win, Nicci?
Any change in her condition?
21
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:46,880
Can I just go and see my daughter?
22
00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:49,960
Can't we do better than this?
23
00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,399
This programme contains some strong
language and some scenes which
some viewers may find upsetting
24
00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,119
BABY GURGLES
Yeah! You like that, do you?
25
00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:59,720
HE CHUCKLES
26
00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,479
Hey.
27
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,479
She finds wallpaper funny.
28
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Does she? Are you sure that's OK?
29
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,119
The steam and...
30
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,959
Ah, I think it's fine.
31
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Yeah? Yeah.
32
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Should have probably done
it before she got here.
33
00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,079
She loves it.
34
00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,119
Look at that smile.
I was thinking maybe a picnic.
35
00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,239
Ah, it's a bit cold.
36
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,719
Yeah, we'll just wrap up, won't we?
We'll wrap up.
37
00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:28,599
You going to make sandwiches?
38
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,879
I'm not going to make sandwiches,
sexist!
39
00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,599
We'll buy sandwiches. Ah.
40
00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,719
I'll get you a sausage roll
if you're lucky.
41
00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,799
Oh, I'm in!
THEY LAUGH
42
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,719
BABY GURGLES
Ah! She finds that funny too.
43
00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,720
Ah, no, no! Ah!
44
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:02,959
RADIO: ..factors at play
45
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,999
when the life of a young
child is at stake.
46
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Looking at the papers this morning,
47
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this makes the front page
48
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on nearly every single...
49
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ANDREW SIGHS
50
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Ready?
51
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:19,600
Yeah.
52
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,640
It's going to be OK.
Yeah, yeah.
53
00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:32,920
Mint?
Ah, I just brushed my teeth.
54
00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:35,960
You need a mint, mate.
55
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,480
You keep them.
56
00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,199
Nicci! Nicci! Nicci! Nicci!
57
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:03,359
REPORTERS CLAMOUR
58
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We're just going to go straight in,
thank you very much.
59
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:29,919
Pre-match huddle?
60
00:03:29,920 --> 00:03:31,799
Yeah. OK.
61
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,519
A rundown of who's here.
62
00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,199
Francesca Camara, representing the
hospital and Dr Samantha Woodham.
63
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,279
She's very good.
Beatrice Shrigley, working with
64
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,519
Greg Richardson and the Children
and Family Legal Services team.
65
00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:46,359
Representing Marnie.
Yeah, we met Mr Richardson.
66
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:47,759
Good lawyers, but so are we.
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00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,080
We're going to save Marnie's life,
Mrs Lloyd.
68
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,440
We're going to do something
special here today.
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00:03:58,360 --> 00:03:59,840
Yeah, good.
70
00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,559
How long have you been Marnie's
paediatric consultant?
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00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,479
I have observed Marnie in PICU
for close to seven years.
72
00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,519
She's a patient I know very well.
73
00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,920
And will you tell us what you think
the best treatment is for her now?
74
00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,679
I am sorry to say that I think
we should stop all treatments.
75
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,679
I believe the life-sustaining
treatments we are currently
76
00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,839
giving are causing her to suffer
without any prospect of helping her.
77
00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:35,919
How would you describe Marnie's
current interaction with the world?
78
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,399
She will never,
in my medical opinion,
79
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,919
leave ventilated breathing support.
80
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,399
She shows little response to stimuli
81
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,559
and her brain scans show
irreversible damage.
82
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,479
So her conscious experience?
83
00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:50,719
In my judgment,
84
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,400
right now, she has very little,
if any, conscious experience.
85
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,160
No further questions.
86
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,879
How many children have you
treated like Marnie?
87
00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:14,079
No case is alike, but I have treated
88
00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,479
maybe 20 or 25 children with
severe muscular dystrophy.
89
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,599
How many end up in a situation
where, in your opinion,
90
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,679
treatment can no
longer be of use?
91
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,919
I couldn't tell you that exactly.
92
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,600
How many have died in your care?
93
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:30,759
Six.
94
00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:33,519
The deterioration in each case was
similar to what we've seen
95
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:34,599
with Marnie?
96
00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,159
No cases are alike. And Marnie's
specific condition is unique.
97
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,759
In fact, as you say,
it is as yet undiagnosed.
98
00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,679
As happens frequently with
neuromuscular disorders.
99
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,399
But as it is undiagnosed,
how can you be 100% sure that
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00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,119
continuing treatment is futile?
101
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,799
I am as certain as I can be.
102
00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,159
And if I were to tell you
103
00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,080
that there are doctors who believe
they can treat Marnie?
104
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:05,159
Marnie's conscious experience,
another complicated area, is it not?
105
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:06,519
Yes.
106
00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,119
Have there been examples,
107
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,439
to your knowledge, of children with
severe brain damage who recover?
108
00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,679
I do not believe it is likely
there will be any
109
00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,679
miracle improvement.
110
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,559
Of course, you must have
your beliefs.
111
00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,880
Let us discuss pain.
112
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,679
Ventilation itself isn't painful,
is it?
113
00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,239
No, but suctioning is
very unpleasant.
114
00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:30,599
And how often does that happen?
115
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:31,959
Several times a day.
116
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,239
And if Marnie has very little,
if any, conscious experience,
117
00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,399
in your opinion,
how would she feel pain
118
00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,039
in these isolated
suctioning incidents?
119
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,279
There are autonomic
responses from Marnie
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00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:46,599
that do, I'm afraid, suggest pain.
121
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:48,999
You cannot have it both ways,
Dr Woodham.
122
00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,559
Either she doesn't have
a conscious experience,
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00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,239
in which case she isn't in pain,
or she does.
124
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,359
You're wrong.
125
00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:00,279
We have seen a series of reactions,
from spasms to
126
00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:05,119
changing heart rates, which do
suggest that while her conscious
127
00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:10,920
experience is extremely limited,
her pain response is still there.
128
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:20,319
Let me take you back to
2016, if that's OK?
129
00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,599
Sure.
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00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,759
May 24th.
131
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:26,959
Marnie presented with an infection.
132
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,399
Yes. Um, I would need
to consult my notes.
133
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,639
You had to put in a
central venous catheter.
134
00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,080
A central line.
135
00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,159
Yes. And it went wrong.
136
00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,279
You perforated an artery.
137
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,919
Which led to distal ischemia.
Yes.
138
00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,959
You needed to call in a vascular
surgeon to repair the damage.
139
00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,879
This incident was referred up to the
consultants' group and it was seen
140
00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,039
to be an unfortunate complication of
a competently performed procedure.
141
00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,759
"Competently performed"?
142
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,319
How can something be
"competently performed"
143
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,159
when it almost leads to ischemia?
144
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,480
That is what they concluded.
145
00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,000
We are human beings.
146
00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:14,199
And...I am sorry it happened...
147
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,480
..and I am grateful there was no
damage to Marnie in the long term.
148
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,080
What do you know of unconscious
bias in the medical profession?
149
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,959
Well, it's something that we're
all concerned with.
150
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,999
A doctor in a raft is told only
seven people can
151
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,639
survive on the rations they have.
152
00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:34,999
He has to make a decision as to
who to save.
153
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,959
He or she. I do beg your pardon,
Dr Woodham.
154
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,239
How does he or she
make the judgment?
155
00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,559
We do not ration care
in this country.
156
00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:47,039
You're denying that during Covid
there was rationing of care
157
00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,279
for disabled people?
There was a prioritisation.
158
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,120
Who do you prioritise?
159
00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:58,199
Now, we happen to have
some correspondence
160
00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,399
that was passed to us
at very late notice.
161
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:01,599
My Lady!
162
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,039
I apologise enormously, My Lady.
It was this morning.
163
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,159
I emailed the court as soon as
I received it.
164
00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,080
I received no email.
165
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,480
Do you have copies for the others?
Yes, My Lady.
166
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,479
My Lady, we have no means
of verifying this document.
167
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,320
We can ask the witness.
168
00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,080
Did this email come from you?
169
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,040
How did you get this?
170
00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:40,799
Yes.
171
00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,839
Then I'll allow it.
172
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,439
This is a correspondence between
you and a bed manager about
173
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:51,119
how to move people out of PICU in
preparation for the Covid outbreak.
174
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,079
Dated February 2020.
175
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:59,679
They ask you what they should do
about bed 16 and you reply,
176
00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:02,599
"Bed 16 shouldn't be there,
177
00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,999
"the parents have been clinging to
hope without there being any."
178
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I was expressing a medical opinion.
179
00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:11,600
I...regret how it sounds.
180
00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:18,719
Do you believe that sometimes, for
patients, as a doctor, that the best
181
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:20,999
thing to do is to let them die?
182
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,679
That was another child
and another set of circumstances.
183
00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:25,639
It was a busy time.
184
00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:27,160
Lots of people to save?
185
00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:30,159
Yes.
186
00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:31,919
How irritating, then, to have a bed
187
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,479
taken up with this disabled child
which determined parents
188
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,039
are there to protect.
189
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,119
I do think the sanctity of life
is important.
190
00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,879
But sometimes, as doctors, we're
unable to preserve a meaningful
191
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,959
life, and in that case it is cruel
to prolong the dying process
192
00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,399
with treatments that
do not benefit them.
193
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,679
Where is that stated? Is that in the
good medical practice guidelines,
194
00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:57,319
as laid out by the GMC?
195
00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:58,599
My Lady!
196
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,159
Mr Frederick, your questioning
here is inappropriate,
197
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,399
as I believe you're well aware.
198
00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,919
Dr Woodham, you do not need to
answer but you may if you wish.
199
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,520
Mm.
200
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:17,160
Marnie is in pain.
201
00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,639
She's unable to communicate,
202
00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,600
and I am no longer helping her.
203
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,480
I am just prolonging her death.
204
00:11:30,680 --> 00:11:35,079
When the other doctors decided
that you had had
205
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,279
an unfortunate complication
in perforating Marnie's artery
206
00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,079
and almost leaving her with
another disability,
207
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,879
on what grounds did they do so?
208
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,279
Sorry?
209
00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,840
On what grounds did they make
their judgment on you?
210
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,919
The grounds of, um...
211
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,279
I'm sorry, I...
212
00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,599
They gave you the benefit
of the doubt, Dr Woodham.
213
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,919
Just as you have failed to give
Marnie the benefit of the doubt.
214
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:06,759
No. In fact, and instead,
what Marnie has faced
215
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:11,159
every day in your care is your
prejudice that this little girl
216
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:14,919
and her little life are taking up
space in your precious PICU.
217
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:16,320
No.
218
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,479
I am sorry that you're
getting emotional.
219
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,239
That was not my intention.
220
00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:29,680
But there is, of course, a lot of
emotion attached to this case.
221
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:37,239
She is my patient and I have always
given her the finest care.
222
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:38,840
In your opinion.
223
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:42,040
No further questions.
224
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:49,839
You doing OK?
225
00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:51,959
Great.
226
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,560
You've had no further trouble?
227
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,400
I'm fine.
228
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,519
That was a good morning for us.
229
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:03,960
I'm sure it feels like that.
230
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:12,200
PHONE BUZZES
231
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,799
Hey.
232
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:37,919
Hey there.
233
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,519
Mind if I...?
234
00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:41,320
Uh, no. Not at all.
235
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,199
Is it allowed?
236
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:48,560
It's allowed.
237
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,439
How do you think it's going?
Honestly? Yeah.
238
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:56,999
Horribly.
239
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,999
These things are usually...
240
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,600
..not collegiate, but there's
a certain level of respect.
241
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,440
However this turns out,
look after yourself, OK?
242
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,359
Ah, yeah, it's just an egg stain.
243
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:20,879
Sorry?
244
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,600
On the tie. It's just an egg stain.
245
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,559
I know what drinking looks like.
246
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,320
I know what drinking smells like.
247
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,239
Have you got any lunch?
248
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:35,720
Er, no.
249
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,599
OK. I can get some more.
250
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,840
What? No, no, no, no.
You can, and you will.
251
00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,360
My favourite flavour.
Cheese and onion.
252
00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,520
My favourite. Good.
253
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,199
Mr Lloyd.
254
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,440
Would you consent to a few
questions from me?
255
00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:09,719
I've...
CLEARS THROAT
256
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,159
I've nothing to hide.
Thank you.
257
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:16,319
Your wife gave up her job
when Marnie was diagnosed?
258
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,399
And I'm very grateful for that.
259
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,759
Rather she kept herself
focused on Marnie.
260
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,799
Well, her job wasn't
very understanding.
261
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,039
You kept working?
262
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,239
Yes. Uh, we needed the money.
263
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,279
Do you remember who was earning
more when Marnie was born?
264
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:34,879
Your wife or yourself?
265
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:36,999
Er, she was.
266
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,639
So, a better economic decision might
have been for you to give up
267
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,280
your job and for your
wife to keep on going.
268
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,479
You're right.
269
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,440
Can you explain why, then, you were
the one to keep your job?
270
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,159
To be honest,
the question wasn't asked.
271
00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,199
What sort of hours do you work,
Mr Lloyd?
272
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,359
9.30 till 6.00 most days.
273
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,999
And your business, accountancy,
has grown since Marnie was born?
274
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,199
Yes.
275
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,920
So, occasionally you have meetings
in the evenings, at weekends?
276
00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,359
I...have always...um...
277
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,399
..have made a lot of time
for my family.
278
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:20,919
So any suggestion you've buried
yourself in work...
279
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,199
My Lady! I am not here to represent
Mr Lloyd, but as he's
280
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,999
representing himself and perhaps
unused to the court situation,
281
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,559
I do feel obliged to say
these questions do feel
282
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:32,399
unnecessarily intrusive.
283
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:33,840
Agreed.
284
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,760
Would you consider yourself
a good father, Andrew?
285
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:48,719
I'd hope...that I'm a good dad.
286
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,479
I don't believe this
line of questioning is fruitful.
287
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,239
I'm not going to be helped by
intrusive questions of Mr Lloyd.
288
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,839
If you have any questions
about Marnie's quality of life,
289
00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,279
please ask them.
Apologies, My Lady.
290
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,919
I'm not looking to be intrusive,
just drawing a picture
291
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,239
as to the family dynamic,
so as to
292
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,719
get a...a better sense of who might
best represent Marnie's interests.
293
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,439
Mr Frederick, I have no doubt that
everyone involved in this case
294
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:15,959
firmly believes that they are
295
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,680
putting Marnie's best interests
first. It's not a competition.
296
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,759
Parenting a child with Marnie's
needs must be extremely trying.
297
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,359
There are difficulties but, er...
298
00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:34,879
..immense pleasures, too.
299
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,279
She's a beautiful girl.
300
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,960
Has the pressure ever
overwhelmed you?
301
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,359
Frequently.
302
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:45,039
There have been moments
303
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,519
when you have made mistakes looking
after her, haven't there?
304
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:53,039
The time that Marnie was left alone
with her temperature rising
305
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,840
while you were in
your garden, drinking.
306
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,199
Um...
307
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,039
I had...
308
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,079
I had a couple of beers, sure,
309
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,039
but I had the monitor with me
and I couldn't anticipate...
310
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,200
Was it a COUPLE of beers?
311
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,640
I... Um...
312
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:20,559
Perhaps four or five.
313
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,440
Were there drugs involved?
314
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:28,519
Maybe I'd smoked some weed.
I do occasionally.
315
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:30,239
It doesn't impact my judgment.
316
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,199
To be clear, at that moment
she required hospitalisation.
317
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,999
I...
318
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,680
I think we've both made mistakes,
haven't we, Nicci?
319
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,359
Is this another mistake, Mr Lloyd?
320
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:46,799
You're aware that if you do this,
there is no coming back?
321
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,839
Am I aware that my daughter
will be dead?
322
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,880
Yes. I'm...aware of that.
323
00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:56,640
I don't want to make
this decision. I...
324
00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:59,960
I just...um...
325
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:03,640
I feel obliged to.
326
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,440
No further questions.
327
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,199
Where does that obligation
come from?
328
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,160
The obligation to
make that decision?
329
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,040
I looked at her and, um...
330
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:29,480
..I, um...
331
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:38,239
It's a difficult thing,
watching your child in pain,
332
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,959
especially when you believe
she won't get better.
333
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,599
That is supposition on the basis
of no medical training.
334
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,679
But I have studied. My wife and I
both have. We're specialists.
335
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,679
You know, I believe one thing
and she believes another, and
336
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:55,720
I believe that hers is on the basis
of a wish that I wish I shared.
337
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,480
The obligation comes from love.
338
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,159
And if that doesn't sound...
339
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,480
Well, look, I don't really care how
it sounds.
340
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:11,040
No further questions.
341
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,359
Uh, I'm going to catch
the bus home, OK?
342
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,519
Oh. Well, Grandad was going to
give us a lift.
343
00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,319
Er, yeah, I'm going to catch
the bus.
344
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,359
Just need some space.
345
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:39,040
OK.
346
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,999
I'm so sorry this is
so late in the day. Oh, that's OK.
347
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,079
I'm just pleased to finally be
getting to talk to you.
348
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,200
I think I can help you.
349
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,079
Great.
350
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,959
So, what's your opinion on what's
best now, for Marnie?
351
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,159
Marnie needs time.
We need to be able to chart
352
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,119
whether any recovery from the
hypoxic brain damage is possible.
353
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:18,159
We need to see what treatment might
be best for her condition.
354
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,599
So, I say we give her that time
and get her tracheostomised
355
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,000
and supported.
356
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,159
I can't, er...
357
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:34,559
I can't tell you how good it feels
to hear a doctor say it.
358
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,879
Medicine's an observational sport.
359
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,999
Too many give up on that
observation too quickly.
360
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,159
There are many that believe that
risdiplam might have
361
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,599
an impact across a spectrum
of neuromuscular disorders.
362
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,199
Yeah, I said...
I said the same.
363
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,839
And the important thing
from the court's perspective is not
364
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,240
that such a thing is probable,
but that it's possible.
365
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,559
But you've had success
with children like Marnie?
366
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,879
Mrs Lloyd, I've had success
with all kinds of children
367
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,680
that medical science
would otherwise have discarded.
368
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,239
What's in the picnic basket?
369
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,600
I don't know yet,
cos it's in the shop.
370
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:22,680
Got it.
371
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,400
CAR ENGINE STARTS
372
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,639
You look like a fucking statue.
373
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,279
Yeah.
374
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:50,560
You want to talk about it?
375
00:22:58,240 --> 00:22:59,920
I had...
376
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,199
I had thoughts.
I had thoughts things...
377
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,800
..would be easier without her.
378
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,399
I had those thoughts.
379
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,120
Of course you did. You knew
how hard it was with me.
380
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,599
No. That's not true.
381
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,200
I loved being your big brother.
382
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,160
I quite liked being
your little brother.
383
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:46,200
MUSIC: Animal Nitrate
by Suede
384
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:52,919
Dance with me.
385
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,239
No! Come on. Dance with me.
386
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,360
Fuck off! No, dance with me.
Come on.
387
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:07,479
# Like his dad,
you know that he's had
388
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,839
# Animal nitrate in mind
389
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:16,759
# Oh, in your council home
he jumped on your bones
390
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,999
# Now you're taking it
time after time
391
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:26,600
# Oh, it turns you on, on... #
392
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,840
SIREN WAILS
393
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,479
I'm guessing you'll
be sleeping here.
394
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,479
Thanks, yeah.
395
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,840
I'll bring you in
a cup of tea at seven.
396
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,040
Once upon a time...
397
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,480
..there was a button...
398
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,480
..called Little Button...
399
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:28,840
..and she lived with her mum...
400
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,719
..Mummy Hat...
401
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,240
..and her dad, Daddy Shirt...
402
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,480
..and her sister...
403
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,320
..Sister Shoe...
404
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,600
..in a room above a factory.
405
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,800
One day...
406
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,520
One day she went to the beach...
407
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,160
..and she...
408
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,240
SHE CRIES
409
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,040
You wait there, OK, sweetheart?
410
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:22,439
OK, I'll, er...
I'll finish it off.
411
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,439
I've got this.
412
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,880
You take your time and then, er,
then we'll climb up the hill, OK?
413
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:33,119
I'm sorry. It's all right, darling.
It's all right. It's all right.
414
00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:35,319
Hello! Hello, sweetheart!
415
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:36,880
You're OK.
416
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,679
You know, I've even got
a story about Sister Shoes.
417
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,519
I have.
418
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:45,000
It's OK.
419
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,239
Could you explain to us
why the doctors are wrong?
420
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,719
Marnie has a congenital
muscular dystrophy.
421
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,279
Her specific form has never
been diagnosed,
422
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,839
it's hard to diagnose,
and therefore hard to treat,
423
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,479
but I believe that
treatments are possible.
424
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,679
For instance,
an experimental treatment
425
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,759
called risdiplam
might have an impact.
426
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,199
My Lady, that drug
427
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,999
is not licensed for use by NICE,
the FDA, or the EMA
428
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,279
for Marnie's condition.
429
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,479
Er, right now it isn't,
but drug use changes
430
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:32,719
all the time.
431
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,199
We're not here to guess as to what
treatments might work.
432
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,919
I agree. Please refrain
from guesswork, Dr Pankerman.
433
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,439
We're here to establish facts.
434
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,039
My point is not that a cure
is available,
435
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,919
my point is that it
might be available.
436
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,399
We will investigate
and make cases for treatments.
437
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,400
And while we do so,
we'll keep Marnie alive.
438
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,880
No further questions.
439
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,959
Talk me through your qualifications
in PICU.
440
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,599
15 years qualified.
441
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,519
I'm an attending physician
that works mainly in neurology.
442
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,159
Sorry, you misunderstand me.
443
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,559
I know it's another country's
medical system, so it's complicated,
444
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,679
but paediatric medicine,
what is your specialism there?
445
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,199
Unlike Dr Woodham, who is
a generalist, I'm a neurologist.
446
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,879
I work with all ages.
447
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,559
I can understand the brain.
448
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,319
Have you examined Marnie's brain?
449
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,359
I haven't been to examine
her face-to-face
450
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:30,919
but I have looked at the scans.
451
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,239
So this is just an opinion
based on no direct examination?
452
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,599
Your medical system has prevented me
from examining Marnie.
453
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,199
As such, my opinion is provisional.
454
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,240
It is far from categoric but I do
think the possibility exists.
455
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,799
To be clear to the court, a second
opinion was sought and given.
456
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,399
The consultant asked a friend
of hers from a neighbouring
457
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,039
hospital to examine the girl.
458
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,199
Unsurprisingly,
she agreed with the consultant.
459
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,959
Are you claiming that
Professor Bradbury
460
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,559
has not complied with her
duty to the court?
461
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,999
That's an extremely serious
allegation to make.
462
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,879
What is your evidence for it?
463
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,079
No, I'm not saying that,
I'm just saying that often
464
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,200
colleagues support each other.
465
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,799
Tell me, you have appeared in other
proceedings concerning
466
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,079
medical treatment for minors,
have you not?
467
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,279
Yes. How many cases where there
is a decision to be made
468
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,319
about the future care of a child?
469
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,559
I don't know, maybe three.
470
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,759
Well, this was just a simple
Google search.
471
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,159
We found evidence of you
contributing to seven trials
472
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,639
on this basis.
Why do you think that is?
473
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,959
I'm happy to help.
474
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:41,359
To go against the establishment.
Not many are, in my profession.
475
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,319
A bit of aggression from them
helps us, to be honest.
476
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,999
What did you recommend,
477
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,800
in all those cases,
for the child involved?
478
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,040
Have you ever recommended that
ventilation should cease?
479
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,520
No.
480
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,480
I found evidence they should live.
481
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:06,360
No further questions.
482
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,479
KATIE: Hey.
483
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,479
I followed you.
484
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,279
Oh.
485
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,359
Well, that's kids for you.
486
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:02,959
One day they don't want to know,
487
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,079
next day they're following you
to church.
488
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,479
Go ahead, Mum. Pray.
I'm just...just here.
489
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:10,840
No, it's OK.
490
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,239
Maybe you'll have a thunderbolt
moment and start believing in God.
491
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,160
Yeah? Maybe I can be saved.
492
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,079
You know they're only doing what
they need to do to win this?
493
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,399
Yeah, I understand that.
494
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,999
I mean, what they're doing,
they're... Dad doesn't...
495
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,560
Mum...that's not my problem.
496
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:36,680
Was he the best they could do?
497
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:40,559
SHE SIGHS
498
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,280
I thought...
499
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:46,560
Would you trust him with Marnie?
500
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,280
No.
501
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,600
I don't think she'd want this.
502
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,519
Sorry.
503
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,160
I don't.
504
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,040
You're a brave girl.
505
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,240
You're always so brave.
506
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,279
Mrs Lloyd,
507
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,840
tell me why you oppose
the hospital in this action.
508
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,399
Because I believe my daughter
should live.
509
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:36,960
Even though she's in pain?
510
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,879
I don't believe that.
511
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,439
You've seen the reports.
You've been present
512
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,039
at Marnie being suctioned,
where it's claimed a clear pain
513
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:47,439
response has been present.
514
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:48,799
I've never seen that pain.
515
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,800
My Lady...
If I'd have seen that pain...
516
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:53,639
..we wouldn't be here now.
517
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,999
I believe we can allow Mrs Lloyd
to have her own
518
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,640
version of events, counsel.
519
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,520
Why do you think the hospital
disagrees with you?
520
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:08,720
Um...
521
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,999
Er, that's a big question.
522
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,400
Take your time.
523
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,880
I can't...um...
524
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:30,559
I can't tell you the amount of times
that you are encouraged,
525
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,039
as a parent of a disabled child,
526
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,440
to just...
527
00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:38,239
..to just give up.
528
00:34:38,240 --> 00:34:41,999
We had it all through
this...pandemic.
529
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:46,839
I had friends told that their kids
wouldn't get machines.
530
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,959
And I always knew I had to keep
Marnie safe because if she did get
531
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:56,960
the damn thing, I didn't know
that she would survive it because...
532
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,519
..I didn't know that she
would get the help...
533
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:03,960
..to survive.
534
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,639
And then we made it out
the other side and...
535
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,160
..and suddenly...
536
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:15,280
My point is that, um...
537
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,400
..people say that they care about
disabled people, but...
538
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,240
..always, all the time...
539
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,240
..I see different.
540
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,479
Marnie's my, er...
541
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:41,959
Marnie's my beautiful child and
it's an honour to be her mother.
542
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,960
So I've learned
to put my shoulder down.
543
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,320
I just put my shoulder down
and I just...
544
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,600
..I just keep charging.
545
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,480
Ready?
546
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,719
You know what you used
to say to me any time
547
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:40,560
I had something difficult to do?
No.
548
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,999
Mum would tell me to try to be
brave. You told me
549
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,839
I didn't need to try,
I was already brave.
550
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,679
Well, I'm not you.
551
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,359
You want me to come?
552
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,919
You don't like crowds.
553
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,560
I will, though, if you want me to.
554
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,200
I can do this on my own.
555
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:32,920
Are you all right?
Yeah.
556
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,559
Hi. Hi.
557
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,439
I like the smart threads.
558
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:41,480
New?
559
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,280
Yeah, well...ish.
560
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,480
We're here for you both.
561
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,600
Yeah. Well, we better go in.
562
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,600
All rise.
563
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,479
These cases are clearly never easy.
564
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,560
This case particularly so.
565
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,119
I recognise that the strong
presumption in favour
566
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,359
of a course of action that will
prolong life
567
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,399
is not an irrebuttable one.
568
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,399
It reflects the position that life,
as precious as it is,
569
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,799
cannot be,
and indeed should not be
570
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,040
preserved at all costs in the face
of its natural conclusion.
571
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,519
But equally I recognise that
572
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,799
Marnie Lloyd is clearly
an exceptional, bright,
573
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,799
happy and well-loved child.
574
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,039
And it is plain from Dr Woodham's
evidence, and the evidence
575
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,239
given by Mr and Mrs Lloyd,
that Marnie's parents have been
576
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:18,839
doughty defenders of their
daughter's best interests
577
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,760
over many years,
to her undoubted benefit.
578
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,639
The position adopted by Mrs Lloyd
579
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,319
before the court is
eminently reasonable
580
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,240
and wholly understandable.
581
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,239
It represents a continuation
of the love and dedication
582
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:39,840
that she and her family have
shown to Marnie throughout her life.
583
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,800
This is a case of huge complication
and immense difficulty.
584
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,919
I'm going to break my thinking
into four areas.
585
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,040
HE BREATHES RAGGEDLY
So we begin with the evidence...
586
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,679
It's a panic attack. It'll pass.
587
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,519
GASPING: It's just a panic attack.
It'll pass.
588
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:14,640
I've had them before.
589
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:18,039
Is he all right?
It's all right.
590
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,119
He's just having a panic attack.
He's had them before. Thank you.
591
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,159
ANDREW SOBS
592
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,679
All right. Deep breaths, come on.
593
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,999
You're OK. It's all right.
594
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,359
And so, for all those reasons,
595
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,799
I will make the declaration
sought by the hospital...
596
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,039
NICCI GASPS, SOBS
597
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:39,999
...that the continuation
of life-sustaining treatment
598
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,799
is not in Marnie's best interests.
599
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:47,680
NICCI SOBS
600
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,200
INDISTINCT CHATTER
601
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,479
We'll sort it with Derek and talk
about a potential appeal. Derek?
602
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,559
Yes, absolutely.
603
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,759
Look, it's hard now, I know, but...
604
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,080
INDISTINCT CHATTER
605
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:40,920
Can we go? Let's just go.
606
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,240
HE EXHALES
607
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,640
DOORBELL
608
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,320
No, I'll get it.
609
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,439
Hello.
Hi, Tom.
610
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,040
Is, um...?
611
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,839
Hello.
Hi.
612
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,799
I was just...writing to you.
613
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:40,000
Saying what?
614
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,239
Sh...shall I leave?
615
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:46,199
Well, no. We'll just...
We'll go for a walk.
616
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:47,840
I always like a walk.
617
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,119
All right? Yeah.
618
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,400
OK.
619
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,600
They want me to appeal.
620
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:07,919
Of course they do.
621
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,279
I shouldn't have told them
about your drinking.
622
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,479
I'm ashamed that I did that.
I should... You needed to win.
623
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,839
You-you were...
624
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,080
You ARE an excellent dad.
625
00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:24,799
I'm not saying you're right,
and I'm not...
626
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,200
But I'm...
627
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:29,960
But I'm-I'm stopping it.
628
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,240
You're sure?
629
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,160
Morning!
630
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,639
This is an unexpected bounty.
631
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,559
Yeah, well, they're mostly
ones you've sold us.
632
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,599
What's brought this on?
633
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,040
Um, well, you won't be seeing us
again for a while.
634
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:49,800
She's a smasher, your Marnie.
635
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:15,920
I don't want her to die here.
636
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,519
Um...
637
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:25,839
I'm afraid, as I understand it,
she has to.
638
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,799
Oh.
639
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,159
I, um... I asked the same thing,
640
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,639
back at the beginning, I asked
whether we could, you know,
641
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,600
get her home, and I was told that
she'd die in the ambulance.
642
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,879
Right.
643
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:45,079
What they have said is once they've
turned off all the machines and,
644
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:48,279
you know, let her...go...
645
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,399
..um...
646
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,879
..they can put
her in an ambulance for us
647
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,760
and we can get her home then
and put her to bed.
648
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,719
She'd be, er...
649
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:03,359
She'd be dead.
650
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:10,560
Or, um, well, we could explore
the, um...the transplant option.
651
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,080
Right.
652
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,039
What do you think?
653
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,520
I decided I'd leave that
question to you.
654
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,040
Oh.
655
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,439
Well, thank you for researching it
656
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,720
but...I want us to decide together.
657
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,000
Yeah. Um...
658
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,359
I mean, I genuinely...
659
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,000
I'm not sure on this. Um...
660
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,519
I think Marnie would quite like to
661
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,760
be back in her own bed...
662
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,440
..and, um...
663
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,879
..and I think Marnie would quite
like to be useful, you know,
664
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:01,560
to other people.
665
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,519
Katie?
666
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:06,879
Me?
667
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,440
Yes, please.
668
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,560
Um...
669
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:15,920
I think...
670
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:21,920
I think transplant.
671
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,280
Could they do it quickly?
They could make that happen, yeah.
672
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,880
Well, let's make it happen.
673
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:20,880
Will we hear it?
674
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:24,999
Will we hear it when she dies?
675
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:26,600
There might be some breathing.
676
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,599
But will it sound like
she's in pain?
677
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,079
That's unlikely.
678
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:35,359
Chances are she'll just pass.
679
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,240
Can we call it dying? Not letting
go or passing on, just...
680
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:42,639
..just dying.
681
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,319
With the morphine she's on,
682
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,320
I don't believe she'll
feel any pain.
683
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,560
Have you got anything you want
to say to her?
684
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,080
I think she knows how I feel.
685
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,320
I love you, Marnie.
686
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,559
I love you, too.
687
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,000
I love you so much.
688
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:14,799
I've got something I want to say.
689
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:15,840
OK.
690
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,200
KATIE WHISPERS
691
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:48,360
Are you ready?
692
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,039
Are the transplant team ready?
693
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:53,279
Yes.
694
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,359
Um, so, um...what will happen?
695
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,439
Once we've taken out
the breathing tube,
696
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,599
we'll let her breathe on her own.
She may take a few breaths.
697
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,560
You will have a little
time to hold her.
698
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:09,639
Then her heart will slow
and then it will stop.
699
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:13,080
When that happens, we need to get
her next door, straight away.
700
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,119
OK.
701
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:24,880
Then I-I think we're ready.
702
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:31,200
OK.
703
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:50,440
SOFT BEEPING
704
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,040
SNIFFLING
705
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:24,320
There we go.
706
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:27,920
There we go, lamb.
707
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,759
Goodnight. Sleep tight.
708
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,000
I love you. I love you. I love you.
709
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,119
Was that the wrong thing to say?
710
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,200
No.
711
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:09,600
LIGHTER IGNITES
712
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,160
Well, I'll, um...
713
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:20,960
Get in the van.
714
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,680
I don't know where we're going
but we're going there together.
715
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,759
Right?
I agree with her.
716
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:33,400
OK. Thanks.
717
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,160
I'm going to miss her...so much.
718
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:06,880
You know I will too, right?
719
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,800
You even thinking you need
to say that just...
720
00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:15,200
..makes me feel like such
an arsehole.
721
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:20,199
We made her happy and...
722
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:21,960
..and that's...
723
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:28,280
Well, she made us happy, too.
She really did.
724
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,160
REAR DOOR OPENS
725
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:48,240
So, where to?
726
00:54:50,240 --> 00:54:51,959
I could be hungry.
727
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:54,959
You could? Mm.
Well, that's shocking.
728
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,759
That's a great idea. Um...
729
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,359
..the Italian place by the library?
730
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:01,919
Yeah. Good.
731
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:03,839
Music? You want some music?
732
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,119
Oh. I, er...
733
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,640
Your dongle, it's, uh...it's busted.
734
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:11,959
You broke my dongle?
735
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,519
Yeah. Yeah, I snapped it.
I snapped it in anger.
736
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:17,359
Well, shall I sing something, then?
737
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:18,640
KATIE CHUCKLES
738
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:23,119
Uh... I've got my music.
739
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:24,640
Oh, she's got her music.
740
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:29,000
Let's hear it, then.
All right.
741
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:36,920
MUSIC: 20/20
by Rimon
742
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:44,759
# Whoa, whoa
Woo, ooh
743
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:48,479
# Whoa, whoa
Woo, ooh, ooh
744
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:52,800
# Whoa, hmm
745
00:55:54,560 --> 00:56:00,199
# I see your sunlight through
the window, it's magic, uh
746
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:05,559
# My thoughts and body were just
caught by this traffic, uh
747
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:11,119
# You watched time pass while
I kept myself distracted, uh
748
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:16,039
# Will you forgive now
that I'm paying attention?
749
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:21,919
# Uh, I see your sunlight through
the window, it's magic, uh
750
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:27,319
# My thoughts and body were just
caught by this traffic, uh
751
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,239
# Where did our time go?
752
00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:33,159
# Encounters beautiful
753
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:41,599
# Only you are the one
to break the shackles of my burden
754
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:47,079
# Are the one to show me
glory in the moment
755
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:48,719
# Cannot pay you back
756
00:56:48,720 --> 00:56:52,479
# Even if I could, I can
only fall on my knees
757
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:57,519
# Show my gratitude for your deeds
758
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,599
# I see your sunlight through
759
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,759
# The window, it's magic, uh
760
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,279
# My thoughts and body were just
761
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:08,399
# Caught by this traffic, uh
762
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,359
# You watched time pass while
763
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,520
# I kept myself distracted. #
56541
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