All language subtitles for Commentary subtitle

Hi, I'm John Krokidas,
co-writer and director of the movie.

Hi, I'm Dan Radcliffe,
and I play Allen Ginsberg.

- And I'm Dane DeHaan, I play Lucien Carr.
-And this is Austin Bunn, co-writer.

Now, this is
all of our first commentaries, right?

Welcome.

It's my first commentary.
It's my first proper one at least, yeah.

And we begin the movie
here in the Hudson River,

and ljust wanna say for the record,

I actually made Dane DeHaan,
Michael C. Hall, and Allen Ginsberg...

I mean, Allen Ginsberg.

Thanks. I was really into character,
so he just thought it was...

Daniel Radcliffe go in the Hudson River.
How did you guys feel about that?

I had to be in there a lot
for a lot shorter than he did.

Yeah, I spent basically
an entire night naked in the Hudson River.

And it wasn't the summer.

The cleanliness of the Hudson River
is questionable,

-but the temperature is not questionable.
-ls not in doubt.

It is freezing cold.

Dane, how much training
did you do for this scene?

Actually, John did make me
start working out for the film.

That was something he wanted me to do,
so I did a little bit of that.

And I remember
this is the first day of shooting.

This was the first day of shooting.

Was it tough for you guys

to do such an emotionally heightened scene
on our first day?

I think it's something you...

There aren't too many scenes in this
that aren't that emotionally heightened,

and we were gonna end up shooting
probably something intense on the first day.

I think you always are used to the idea,
it always seems to happen that way,

you end up shooting something massive
on the first day of the job.

Yes, I remember being really nervous.

And I remember John was having us scream
"Fuck you" at one another in between takes...

I had completely forgotten that
until you reminded me of it earlier today.

- Yeah. I love those titles.
-I love the titles.

Where did the titles come from?

You were inspired
by somebody or something.

Yeah. And since the whole movie
was inspired by film noir and my love for it,

I watched where film noir went into
the hands of the French with the New Wave,

and then with the Japanese in the 1960s,

and I actually took that title treatment
from a Japanese noir film in the '60s.

Interesting.

A dispatch from Turkey says the Germans

have begun another general offensive
against the Yugoslav partisans,

and, in the Pacific, American troops
on Los Negros fought a...

So this scene was filmed
in a convent in Hell's Kitchen,

where we ended up doing
most of our filming. lt was really cool.

The period mouldings were so beautiful and
evoked the time period we were going for.

And they let us move it for a week,

which allowed us to get, I think,
so much production value on a small budget.

Why? Are you expecting something?

No. No.

Yeah, that is my genuine handwriting
for anyone wondering,

'cause John was taken by the fact that
my handwriting was genuinely that mental.

Mom?

You gotta get me outta here.

He nailed the window shut
while I was in the bath.

Dad didn't do that, Mom.

I nailed the windows
because you're not right.

- And here's Jennifer playing your mother.
-She's awesome.

I think the rest of us,

you and I, Dane, and all the other cast
playing the main Beats,

had such a lot of time together
relative to some people on this film.

And Jennifer just had to come in for those
three or four days she had with us filming,

and every scene she had
was just hitting the ground running,

and doing something incredibly intense,
and she's just brilliant in the film.

And a lot of those scenes
were really under the clock, too, I remember.

This scene was filmed in, I think,
less than an hour at 4:00 in the morning.

It was good, though.
I think, all of us, shooting that fast,

let us just work from our guts
and not overthink things

because when you're shooting that fast,

you've just gotta trust
what you can get in the first few takes.

Were you excited
to work with David Cross, Dan?

Yeah, I was.
I was a big fan of his stand-up particularly.

I always get quite nervous around people
I admire or look up to like that.

So, yeah, I was quite nervous,
but he's a very nice guy and he's very funny.

I remember
you let him improvise at one point,

and he improvised
some long, rambling thing

about a ticker tape parade
and a factory that would run out of paper.

And it was five minutes long

and never gonna make it in the film,
but it was brilliant.

And David played Allen Ginsberg
before in a film as well.

Isn't that right, Kroki?

Yeah, it was an example of meta-casting.

This is one of my favourite happenstance
shots with the letters in his glasses.

I don't know if anybody notices that,
but that's a really nice touch.

John, you liked the idea of putting

the very famous name, Allen Ginsberg,
on an application form,

or showing it in that way.

And it's the first time
that we ever see your name,

the whole name, Allen Ginsberg,
and I thought it was a cool way to introduce,

"Oh, yeah, this is the young guy who
will later become the poet that we all know."

And the beginning of Nico's beautiful score.
I love that, you know,

he brought a contemporary touch to the film,

which works against the classic biopic that
I think we all want to rebel a little bit against.

- And here is Columbia University.
-Here's Columbia University.

Now, on the other side of
both this shot and the next one,

were about 400 people who had turned out.

So this shot is all about Allen feeling...

Allen, alone, stepping into Columbia
for the first time, finding his way.

And I decided that there were just 400 people

who had turned out
to watch us filming that day.

'Cause a film crew
always attracts a bit of attention.

Now, this is a great example of a prop

that ultimately, as you'll see,
becomes a narrative device later in the film,

and that was something
that we discovered in the editing process.

Yeah, 'cause we had written scenes
set on the IRT,

and other impossibilities given the budget.

Allen Ginsberg.

You're Jewish, right?

This is Zach's first movie. He was so excited.

He plays how many roles in this film?

He actually does the voice of several of...

Like, the radio announcers,
the voice of Sammy.

He's about 18 different characters
in this film.

That's amazing.

First Folio Hamlet.

The Gutenberg Bible.

- Who's this?
-And Dane DeHaan enters the movie.

Here I am.

You never fell once,
jumping on that table either.

I never fell. No.

And it was entirely my idea
to do what you're about to see here.

Yeah.

I will say, unscripted action of...
We should just wait for it.

There it is, the lamp.

The big, cancerous cock lamp
between my legs.

This was a really cool building.
What building was this?

- The Academy of Medicine.
-The Academy of Medicine,

which is on the Upper East Side,
right by the Park,

and an entirely preserved medical library.

A really great location.

Okay, but the guy in the hat
is actually Ben Foster.

You'll see in the deleted scenes
there's actually more to this scene

which had to be cut for length,

but that actually is secretly
Ben Foster sneaking up into the film.

Someone's in love.

Now this is John Cullum, who is
Daniel Radcliffe's casting idea for the film.

- Yes, he was.
-Really?

Yes, he's also my friend.
I had been doing a play with him

at exactly the same time
that John was trying to cast his part.

And ljust suggested him to John
'cause I'd seen him in the show

and he's just awesome.

He was in, I can't remember
if it was Macbeth or Hamlet with Burton,

and he did it for four years.

He's from an amazing time in acting,
and is a fantastic actor.

And he's actually really close friends
with my acting mentor, Gerald Freedman.

- Really?
-Yeah.

They actually still work together sometimes.

Gerald is around his age and
was a fairly prolific director back in the day,

and he was my acting mentor

and John Cullum and him
are very close friends.

Cool.

- This is Columbia's campus, isn't it, John?
-lt is.

One of the really cool things
about our production team

is they got us a chance to shoot at Columbia,
and the Union Theological Seminary

where Allen Ginsberg and Lucien Carr
actually dormed with each other.

And we shot
where the murder actually happened.

And just getting that production value

and to shoot where these events
took place in 1944, was so exciting.

It's amazing to think
students still take class in that classroom.

I can't. You see how much I have to do.

He's Navy. It's catnip for the skirts.

I love that line.

I've realised
what some people haven't noticed

is that this Brahms melody
is the same Brahms melody

that Allen danced with his mother to
in the earlier scene.

Austin, why did we want to do a repeat here?

The idea was that
this was one of those breadcrumbs

leading him forward into his future.

And actually,
the Brahms piece is genuinely the piece

that Lucien Carr played in his dorm room

that Allen went to go discover,
that he recognised.

So this is actually accurate.

We actually rolled it backwards in time
and put it in the mom scene.

I love what happens as well
with the sound in this moment.

-It's really beautiful.
-That it swells, yeah.

Yeah. And it just becomes the focus.

There's trouble.

This was one of my audition scenes.

I went to New York
and read with Dan and John

and this was the first scene we did.

Which made it challenging on the day

'cause we had done this scene
much more than any other scene.

Soto keep it fresh was definitely a challenge.

I was gonna say this was the hardest scene
for the three of us to film,

because we had done it
a couple of times before

and trying to find a new, inventive,
fresh, emotional "in" to it.

I want my entire life to be composed of them.

You pour tall boys in this scene, Lucien.
Those are full pours.

- Well, you know...
-He was Lucien Carr.

You dirty bastard.

In later life, didn't Carr have a drink
called a "Lucien Carr"

that was an entire glass of vodka
with a dash of Coke to change the colour?

- Is that right?
-Basically, yeah.

It was like something
people at his office used to call it.

I love this legend.

I think the props guys
did a brilliant job of finding something

that really resonated
with our theme of a circle,

that you remember and feels iconic,
and legendary,

and came centuries before you.

- Bang. The whole world gets wider.
-Gets wider.

- How did you...
-lt's consonance.

A reiteration of themes.

Are you a writer?

Nico's score is so touching here.

'Cause I've got a job for a writer.

No, I'm not.

Well, you're not anything yet.

Dan.

You're a goner.

-"Into my web."
-Oh, man.

- Who is this guy calling me away?
-That's Zach again.

One of the 18 voices that he did in this film!

Zach!

How many cigarettes
did you guys smoke in this movie?

- We smoked so many cigarettes.
-Roughly one million.

And they're unfiltered.

He's trying to get inside my head.

This is the last scene we filmed, remember?

7:00 in the morning
after an 18-hour shooting day?

That was the last scene we filmed
on that day. lt wasn't the last thing we filmed.

You're right.
We did have one more shooting day.

Yeah, that wasn't the last, was it?
God knows...

This one?
Yeah, when you were on the phone.

- Was that that late on?
-Yeah.

Christ, I have no memory for it.

Listen to me.

ljust love how simple and believable she is.

It's totally a moment
she could make a meal of.

Yeah, that's the thing.

It's a beautiful example of not playing crazy,
but just being crazy.

And Dan, you were actually
right behind her in the other room.

Yes, I'm literally...

Yeah, I'm just behind that door
where you can see the light coming in.

I promise. I love you.

Bye.

Do I take care of my mom
or do I go for the boy that I'm in love with?

Made that choice.

John, do you remember how long...

Do you remember that this, guys,
is a re-write of a scene that we did earlier.

And I also remember
that there was, at one point...

We spent a lot of time filming a scene

between those two moments
that you just saw,

where we snuck past a guard.

And briefly, the film was in danger
of turning into some caper movie.

It was like St. Trinian's for a second.

This was actually a really long, single shot
that got chopped up,

but I remember it being
one of our longest setups.

It was the longest setup of the film.

It was the only shot of the film

we spent any more than a few moments on,
it seems like. We spent time on that.

- It's the one time we got a Steadicam.
-That's true.

Yeah.

Dane, what do you think
is going through that girl's mind?

You just basically
yank her from her conversation.

You mean in real life
or in Kill Your Darlings life?

Kill Your Darlings life, like Lucien Carr.

I don't know. I think one thing
that's amazing about Lucien Carr

is he does those things,
but somehow, he gets away with them.

He can do gross things with a great charm

and somehow it's okay.

There's Ben.

I was gonna say,
we have to say hello to Ben Foster.

We decided that introducing him here
in the bathtub with the gas mask

was a stronger introduction, which is
why we cut him out of the earlier scene.

- It is an amazingly strong introduction.
-lt's absolutely right.

I remember
we had to cut out my laughter constantly

out of the soundtrack
when we were editing this,

'cause you guys
were making me laugh so much.

That's one of my favourite lines,
"Know thyself and beshit thyself."

I also like... I have to say, the way you,
earlier in the scene,

it always makes me laugh, go,
"Dave, where's the liquor?"

'Cause he's just
such a petulant, fucking brat!

Show me the man
who is both sober and happy,

and I will show you the crinkled anus

of a lying asshole.

I hope that line ends up on dorm posters.

I hope it's just repeated endlessly.

We oftentimes joked on set 'cause
we were all so amazed at Ben's performance,

that we got the real William Burroughs
to play William Burroughs.

That was what it seemed like at times.
It was amazing.

But can I also say that Ben's somebody

who does have an incredibly
intense process,

one that is just awe-inspiring
and wonderful to watch, but it never...

I think people who have those processes

sometimes have a reputation
for slowing things down

or not being a part of the group
and being quite isolated.

But Ben is also
the most committed team player,

and he's just awesome and generous
and cool.

We should say hi to Michael C. Hall
who just walked into this movie.

And Michael C. Hall circling a wine glass
and he's one of your boyfriends.

And him doing the circle
and making that sound. He actually did.

We were scared that we were gonna have to...

Like, "How are we gonna
create that sound effect?"

And Michael said, "I got it. Don't worry."

Remember he was gonna drop the glass
and it was gonna explode?

And then we cut that.

- Glad you cut that.
-Good idea.

But we tried.

Man, he's being a dick to me already.

And you are?

This scene was actually quite different
when we shot it.

We should also say hi to Nikolai
in the background of this scene,

who appears at several more points
in this movie.

- Nikolai was my assistant.
-Nikolai was John's assistant on the movie,

who you see drinking there
in the background in the pale blue.

No one notices him.

This scene is just emblematic to me
of Reed's work and how beautiful it is.

And this combination
of this smoky, hazy, atmosphere...

Remember the haze machine?

And I didn't understand what she was doing
while she was doing it,

and then I remember seeing this in
the dailies and thinking it was devastating.

Yeah, Reed really was, in many ways,
a saving grace on many days on this film.

She would get so much material
in one single shot.

Everybody's coverage.

It was truly amazing.

Yeah, having her there was like having
an amazing player on your team,

that you could just send in at the last minute

and who would dig you out
of a hole suddenly.

She's awesome.

And that woman
that was the singer was amazing, too.

- Dawn.
-Yeah.

- Was she singing at all?
-She was on the day, yeah.

Now, this actually, we filmed this
at the Holiday bar in the East Village,

which was one of Allen Ginsberg's
favourite haunts. That was exciting.

Some ear job at the bar just called me kid...

I love that you wrote "ear job", Austin.

You really had fun
finding 1940s things to say in this.

Ear job was very good.

Ear job was very hard to translate into Italian

when they did
the subtitles for this movie in Italy.

- They were like, "What is that"?
-I still don't really exactly know.

"Await the girl who fassinets."

And that's what he's selling? I'll kill him.

Aim for the throat.

All this stuff today was
just Ben genuinely making me laugh.

This is when
Michael C. Hall came to me and said,

"I don't have an actor sitting next to me.
I think William Burroughs showed up on set."

- Two.
-And the Romantics?

More, I suspect,
than this theory accommodates.

- That line had to happen because originally...
-My favourite moment was your improv.

Yeah, because originally,
John had something else written for that line

about how there were only,

I think you said "three," which I disputed.

'Cause the first generation Romantics
were Southey, Coleridge, and Wordsworth,

but then you can't not talk about Byron.

So it is more
than the theory can accommodate.

Yeah, that's me taking an issue with it there.

Tristan Tzara jabbed a knife into a dictionary.

Shit. So that's been done.

A literary revolution without writing a word.

- Neat trick, Lu.
-Well, I'm listening.

What about Yeats?

And Allen helps start the revolution.

This is one of those examples
where Brian Kates, the editor,

just discovered this cinematic capacity
that we had never imagined in the script.

You're hired.

Right there.

I know this moment was very important,
I think, to you, Austin, in the writing process.

Yeah, bars at the time used to have
signs on the wall that would say,

"lf y0u're gay, please stay away."

And we had this idea that you would
discover in the middle of the scene

that they were at a bar
where they are a lot of other gay men around,

and the story of their prosecution
was gonna help contextualise the plot.

"We shall enter the splendid city."

What you don't see is that this scene

was shot across the street
from a children's school.

- At recess.
-Yeah.

And we have about 200 kids
right outside the edges of frame, watching.

Yeah, and occasionally screaming.

No, I think it is the definition of a cool job

when they were quieted
by the fact that we're just making a movie.

If a load of six-year-olds wanna
stop what they're doing and watch you,

it means you've got a cool job.

A movie they won't be able
to see for 10 years.

Yeah.

What's going on?

This is another one of those scenes
that Jennifer Jason Leigh

just had to come in and do first thing.

How did you prepare for this scene?

I remember going off into the little
green room we were in with Jennifer,

and just sitting down
and we had an in-character conversation

where we talked
about why we loved each other.

It was very sweet

and then, I guess,
just carried that into the scene.

- No.
-Listen to her.

- He's not gonna...
-I know it's not. Don't...

Mom. Mom. Mom. Get off.

This is your fault.

That's another classic example of how
I wrote the three-page monologue version

of what she would say to him at that moment.

And Austin is on a crusade
to rid the world of exposition,

and overwritten three-page monologues,

and that line is just so poignant
and beautiful.

- And devastating.
-And then it pays off later.

That was the idea, that you would
hear it later when Lucien says it to Allen.

So this was a scene, right? There's dialogue.
And John, you decided to make it more...

I think because of all the speed of the jazzy
editing and the rhythm that we'd gotten,

we finally realised
we wanted one quiet moment

before we threw ourselves
into the second act, which is about to start.

This was really cold, this night, I remember.

My hand is not shaking out of emotion,
it's shaking out of just being cold.

And this is not actually a close-up.

This is a super...
Because we didn't have time for coverage,

-that's a super zoom.
-Right.

Helped by Reed, and our colourist.

What made Reed
go to this unusual angle right here?

- Time. No, no, I'm joking.
-No.

Everything we wanted...

We felt at this moment,
we wanted one off-frame.

We wanted something unique,
and that was visual, that stood out.

'Cause it's really the first time

the two of them completely bond
and see each other as people.

And the camera's off the tripod
in that theory, yeah.

Reed always finds ways

of making something visually interesting
in a very simple way.

So do you guys wanna explain
how you hang yourselves?

Yes. So we're both wearing harnesses
under our dressing gowns.

And then there's wires
that are connected to the ceiling.

...in justifying myself or if it be...

- That's a run-on.
-Don't edit me.

And, Austin, tell them where
the inspiration for this scene came from.

So this is actually, Allen and Lucien
rehearse their own suicides.

It's from the journals.

- I had a blast doing it.
-Here's that poster.

There it is.

The intention here was,

the last time we saw them
was downtown at an all-white club.

But this was Minton's Playhouse,
where bebop was literally being born,

with an all-black audience.

And the Beats went in there
and started to borrow from their rhythms

and put that into the writing themselves.

S0, the challenge with this sequence
was really,

"How do we take those rhythms
and visualise them?"

This is literally the one thing Ben Foster
said to me during this sequence, was,

"Don't touch my hat."

And you'll see how well that went
in a minute.

A lot of this sequence was based on improvs

that Dan and Dane did
in the rehearsal process

that were so good
that we decided to put it in the movie.

What do you hate from the pit of your gut?

-lnstitutions.
-Paterson, New Jersey.

We're supposed to be on speed,
so I drank a 5-hour Energy.

And ljust was myself.

And the Shakespeare...

Getting closer to it, and you can
see his face not wanting...

"Hey! Don't touch my hat, Dan."

lt is our duty to break the law.

- Really?
-lt's how we make the world wider.

- You are an extraordinary man.
-Well, thank you.

Those lines were from the improv.

- This was really fun.
-Ben throws books hard, as you can imagine.

This was great fun, doing this sequence.

The pace of the scenes in the film
is really indicative

of the pace we felt like we were living at,
at that point,

in terms of how quickly this film was made.

I remember, John, you sent me a picture,
or a still, from the set,

of what we're about to see,

and I remember thinking, "This movie
is for real. It's actually happening.

"That's amazing, that they constructed that."

In about four hours.

Yeah, that was an amazing piece
of production design

with separate wall segments to be put in.

And this is an example of Ben Foster saying,
"Well, I could light my finger on fire."

Well, that actually came from...

We had all of these surreal things we wanted
to do in the script, and couldn't afford.

- And Ben just did it.
-I said, "Ben, what do you think?

"Can you add anything?"

He said, "Well, how about I dip my finger
in sambuca and light it on fire?"

I said, "That sounds fantastic."

I think he gave you about three takes
and then he was like...

I could smell burnt hair.

And he was like,
"Ben's not gonna complain."

But he definitely was glad
we didn't have to do another.

I think this is a really great example
of indie filmmaking special effects.

Yeah, absolutely right.

'Cause all of these people
are just frozen in place.

- Just staying still.
-Just staying completely still.

I remember being really confused
while we were filming this scene,

'cause I'm the kind of person
that needs everything to make sense,

and nothing was making sense.

In the end, ljust had to stop
trying to think about it all

and let it happen.

Again, it's like A Matter of Life and Death,

when everybody freezes, they just freeze,
and it works.

- Austin, do you want to talk about...
-The blood brothers sequence?

All I'll say is that people viscerally responded
to the sound effect.

The sound effect is really...

It's really good.

But this is also the introduction
of the Boy Scout knife.

Yeah, which was a motif,
but we cut some of the stuff in the middle.

This is such an intimate, boyish scene.
It's lanced by his presence.

Love that cut. Brian Kates, thank you.

Improv by Ben Foster.

- Oh, yeah. "You are exploring your cave."
-"lnto your cave."

Yes, that was great.

Dimly lit, I'm sure.
What have you done to my apartment?

Don't touch anything.
We need to write it all down.

I love that.

No one notices that Ben Foster has scissors
in his pocket as he says that line,

-so I feel I need to...
-That's amazing. I never noticed that.

That's like Ben doing shtick.

Leave.

It's so good.

We were at David's apartment doing all this,
my guess is.

The surprise.

I think that's what I love about
Ben Foster as well is that,

as well as being this incredibly intense actor,
and all that,

he has the capacity to put in
old-style comedy like that into something

'cause he has such a broad spectrum
of things he's interested in.

- He calls it "the dance."
-The dance, yeah, indeed.

It only has to be five pages.

You make me too smart,
they're gonna suspect something's up.

And get you sent back to your mother again?

That would just be the end of you.

This sink had no water, I remember.

We had to bring a bucket of water
for you in order to wash your hands

and to get water on your face.

Michael C. Hall looks terrifying
in that scene, to me.

Kill your darlings,

your crushes, your juvenile metaphysics.

None of them belong on the page.

It is the first principle of good...

That's the name of the movie.

I love it when they say
the name of the movie in the movie.

I know. I can never listen to it
and not go, "That's the name of the movie."

What I love
that the art department did here...

Did you see the picture of Rimbaud
that they put?

In his journal?

In his journal. I thought that was a nice,
personalised touch.

"The New Vision.

"Extraordinary men propel us forward.

"It is our duty to break the law."

One great little beat.

Fantastic.

There's more life in those five pages

than in the dozens of bad sonnets...

Something that the costume design
did really great

is, if you notice,
we're now basically in a sea of beige,

and Dan is the only punch of colour.

Now that he's separating himself
from the crowd

and finding himself as an individual.

I thought that was a beautiful touch.

I remember all the costumes
almost had to be vintage,

none of them could be made,
just because the budget of the film,

so we didn't have doubles
or anything like that.

They are all true vintage clothes
from the period.

Which was very helpful, as an actor,
to get to wear the clothes,

the feel of them changes the way you walk
and sit and all that stuff.

Bad Chianti consumed again.

I love how Reed uses focus in order
to underscore a dramatic point or emotion.

- Show me your fucking map.
-Stop.

No, there's nothing here because
David's not here to write it for you.

- It's complicated.
-I love complicated.

He is a professor...

Allen really does know how to take Lucien
and turn the power-play at certain moments.

Yeah, I think Allen is very intuitively smart,

and, you know, he sees
beyond Lucien's bravado,

and to the fact that there is something
lacking in him,

which he's compensating for.

And I think he, like all wounded people,

probably knows how to attack and knows
how to hurt somebody in that moment.

Whenever you're feeling attacked,

you can always find the thing that will most
piss off the person that you're arguing with.

S0, this scene leading up to...

This is one of the most brilliant directed
scenes by John Krokidas in this film.

Yes, this is an extraordinary
example of cueing.

If you're a first-time director out there
and you're working with actors,

there's ways to cue actors
and there's ways not to cue actors.

And I think the best way to explain would
just be to cue as John cued in this moment.

Dan, do you want to do it together?

Okay, yeah, we'll all wait.
We'll all go quiet now, hold on.

- And "Finger suck!"
-"Finger suck!"

-"Finger suck."
-"Finger suck." That's what it was.

He was making us laugh so hard because
he was screaming "finger suck" at us.

We had to change the cue
to "go" or something like that.

- To something innocuous.
-Just so we didn't laugh.

I love this whole thing,

this visualisation of the writing process,

I think, is, John, one of yours
and Brian's finest hours.

'Cause this was not in the script.

This was something that, on seeing the film
for the first time, I was just so excited by.

Yeah, absolutely.

John, what was done to the footage
when it goes into reverse?

It looks kind of bleached or something,
did you guys treat it in some way?

Our colour designer, Tom Poole,
who's worked on so many great movies,

I told him, "Let's go for Kodachrome.
Let's go for a vintage Polaroid.

"Let's go for something that feels
alive, and fresh, and colourful,

"yet still somewhat dated and bleached
at the same time," and he came up with that.

He actually was inspired
after seeing Django Unchained's

use of colour change in flashbacks,
to create something unique and different.

- Norman...
-Norman is awesome.

You never know with background actors
what you're gonna get,

'cause you're just working off of head shots,

and he just showed up and turned out
to have a great face and be a wonderful actor.

Come out and play.

Now, I can only assume that that doesn't
end well, the wanking in the jumper.

But the words...

Oh, the words.

Somebody says, "What are you doing?"
And you say "I'm writing."

- Yeah.
-I love that part too.

Nico's music again, so well done.

- Look who's here.
-And the conflict continues.

The vision at last.

Can I see?

Where's Lu?

I think what's really cool about Michael is
I feel like he's one of us that really knew...

I mean, obviously John and Austin knew,
but of the actors, that really knew this story.

And was excited to be a part of it

because he was familiar with the story and
happy that it was being put onto the screen.

Jack.

You're not allowed to be here.

That's odd since I'm the only thing
keeping him here.

Not any more.

And Allen grows as a character.

This is the second real beat
where I feel like you've grown in strength

and now are staking out your claim
as a young adult.

You don't know Lu.

As soon as you think you do,
he'll find someone else.

In the last two scenes, you've seen him
actually stand up to, first, Lucien,

and rather stopped just being a doormat
for a moment,

and actually stand up to him,
and then write something,

and then confront David.

So, you really are, at this point,
getting a sense of him, actually,

finding a sense of strength
and confidence in himself.

That close-up of your tousled hair there, Dan,

that made me remember
one of our first bonding moments

when we went to the salon together.

Me getting my perm,
YOU getting your highlights.

It was a day at the salon.

Can I also say that,
I don't know if we've had the line already,

but, Austin, there's a line in this scene...

Have we had the newsreels line?

- I think he just said it.
-Yeah, he's just said it.

So, when Dane says,
"What, am I supposed to do newsreels now?"

That is an example of what I think
is a genuinely good joke

that somebody might have said in the 1940s.

- It's a funny...
-Thank you, Dan.

It is a period joke that never gets a response
when l watch the movie,

but I love it.

At least you got it.

Yeah, man, I'm very on board with that.

Once you meet him, you'll see what I mean.

- That'd kill you, wouldn't it?
-Yeah.

This is an example of one of those things
that just happens.

And if we tried to do this,
we'd never have got it.

Movie magic, right there.

- Movie magic.
-Movie magic.

My mom actually did say to me the other day,
she was like, "How did you do that?"

I was like, "We didn't. Jack threw a ball."

She painted it. Say nothing.

This is one of those beautiful discoveries
in this shoot.

Just him thrusting in your face.

That was another thing
that just kind of happened.

- Hey, when did this come?
-Today.

That cat that we saw before

was definitely the most difficult actor
of the entire film shoot.

- Well, the cat had an early call the next day.
-Yeah, very high-maintenance, that cat.

It's better than anything you've ever written.

I think he was going to Saturday Night Live
or something.

A beautiful improvisation by Dan right there
about the periods and commas.

Thank you, Austin.

Who's Sammy?

My best friend since I was 12. Off in the Navy.

- Zach.
-Zach. Once more.

This insert, we discovered in the edit,

that you really needed to see a face
to even listen to the story,

-to imagine that a person was telling it.
-That's interesting.

- This is the first Jack we've seen too, right?
-Yeah.

- Jack Huston, ladies and gentlemen.
-Oh, yeah, Jack Huston. Hello.

And Elizabeth Olsen.

I didn't know we were having guests.

This is day three of filming, and I remember
the two of you sitting on that sofa,

and watching your chemistry
really come alive,

and I remember that being the day
where I saw the two of you really bond.

And the chemistry started
to develop and explode.

It was really fun, this scene actually as well.

It was fun for us because it was the first day
we got to sit back and watch other people.

Yeah, we really had no responsibility
in this scene

and that's why we enjoyed it so much.

We were just goofing off.

I thought you liked it wide open.

Scram.

Allen.

That's another great improv right there.

It's one of my pet hates in things

is when characters who are supposed
to meet each other,

have a relationship of some sort,

never actually say, "Hello"
or, "Nice to meet you" when they meet.

So, I felt like I should introduce myself.

Now this is one of those scenes
that were shot in about 12 to 14 minutes.

- Yeah.
-If you remember.

And it was Reed really just taking control
and one person with a China Ball.

And just the mood, right there,
the mood that she evoked at that time,

with such little resources,
is just stunning to rne.

And all this was great as well,
getting onto the boat.

That reluctant take, that's awesome.

I bring you guys to the Hudson River
once more.

- This was really fun.
-This was a great, fun night.

How far away from shore are you guys?

- Not that far.
-Not so far.

I mean, they're on that dock
that you just saw.

They're shooting from that dock
that we just saw.

Writers. A real writer's gotta be in the beds,

down in the trenches
and all the broken places.

Where were your trenches, Al?

Is this poem an actual poem?

The story of this poem,

it used to be, originally, the very first
Allen Ginsberg poem that you can find.

But, I think, as we discovered, it was hard.

It didn't dramatically read
the way we wanted it to.

S0, the poem you're about to hear
is a magpie composition

from the vernacular you're hearing
in the movie, what people have said.

A message, a secret transmission, allusion,

and an example, I think,
of Allen Ginsberg's radical honesty.

"Be careful.

"You are not in Wonderland.

"L've heard the strange madness
long growing in your soul.

"But you are fortunate..."

It's knit from a variety of the early poetry.

I think the secret was
John unlocked something,

which was that it was a poem
really towards Lucien.

It wasn't just a declaration. lt was supposed
to be like an emotional message.

And that kind of gave me permission
to figure out what needed to be in the poem.

Well done.

Thank you.

What was your action, Dan,
for this, reading the poem?

I don't know, man.
I had loads of stuff I was trying to do.

It was all completely focused
on Dane, though.

I've written poetry in my life,

and have read it to people
to whom it has meant something.

And it is a terrifying, exciting moment,

'cause it's one of total vulnerability
in some ways.

But, yeah, I was really surprised
when I saw that scene in the movie,

I think it's a really strangely moving scene
that comes right in the middle.

It's a great, joyous moment.

Which is about to be squashed

by police sirens.

"It'll be the perfect day."
Austin, that was your phrase.

What made you think of that?
How did you find that phrase?

Remember, John,
we were going to write the fantasies,

Lucien's fantasies were gonna be written
on the smoke and the mist around them,

and then we scrapped that, production-wise.

S0, we wanted to understand
what the dream was,

so that we could understand how far away
he was from it at the end.

S0, that's what the perfect day was.
lt was a reiteration of theme.

You've ignored curfew.

This is one of the best lines in the film,
the next line Dane says,

and a great delivery.

Can you explain why you're at Columbia?

- Well, the same reason you are.
-What is that?

Loose Barnard girls.

That look...

Did you not get somebody come up
to you the other day at a screening,

I can't remember who it was,

but somebody came up to you saying,
"My daughter is at Barnard."

Kyra Sedgwick was only there
for a couple of days

and she was really incredible as well.

We all spent an afternoon, you guys
really connected and talked about...

Yeah, that's right, John and I
went over to the Sedgwick-Bacon residence

and did some improvs and stuff like that,

and it was really helpful to help establish

the complicated relationship
that Lucien has with his mother,

who kind of only ever shows up
when things get too bad.

But other than that, just waits
to let things get to that point.

Hi. I'm Edith Cohen.

What's she doing here?

I've been divorced for some time.

If anyone is upset by the way Allen
does treat Edith Cohen in this one scene,

they did get on very well in later life.

He ended up having to move in with her.

There ended up being a little love
in that relationship.

"Who is my son hanging out with?"

- Lucien!
-Did he put you up to this?

No.

I stole the boat.

And it was tremendous.

That's become one of my favourite lines.

John, you gotta put this scene into context.

This is the infamous scene
that was shot in 12 minutes

when Columbia University shut us down

several hours before we thought
we were going to end the day.

What you don't see is the entire crew
wrapping up on all sides of us.

The producer is talking to the guards

so they didn't see that Reed Morano,
the cinematographer, me, Dan, and Dane,

had run off to a corner of the university
to film this scene.

And we did it without cutting.

- Pretty much, yeah.
-Twelve minutes.

Twelve minutes,
about, probably, three takes,

one wide, where we did about three times
in the one wide,

and then two going into this closer stuff.

We just ran as many passes as we could
in that 12 minutes

and knocked off three angles.

It's not bad going.

...to steal the boat.

Why?

This is an intense, emotional scene,

doing it that fast, was that,
do you think, helpful in some weird way?

No, I don't.

I think it would've been easier
if we had more than 12 minutes to shoot it,

to be perfectly honest.

I guess there's an argument to be made that

you can't think about it,
and you just have to do it,

but whenever you have
something that emotional,

it's always helpful for me
to have at least a little bit of time,

to prepare and to allow things
to breathe and happen.

But you got to do what you got to do.

At the time, it's never worth worrying
about the things that are holding you back.

You have to use what's happening
around you to your advantage.

I love the way, John, their heads lift in this...

How we choreographed it
in the one, two, three way.

Yeah, we choreographed it.

What I find really revealing about this
is we had seven pages of setup

of what you're about to see,
and it was shot and it was good,

and then it just went away.

Because the truth is,
there is so much more fun and discovery

if the audience doesn't really know
exactly what they're doing.

These days were always really fun,
the light-hearted days.

There weren't very many of them,
'cause it's a very serious film,

so when we got to have fun and be jolly
for a clay, it was always really nice.

Look, Erin's here.
Should say hello to Erin Darke.

Erin Darke, the wonderful Erin Darke.

L'll go.

This is a really funny scene to watch now.

There were a lot of different titles
that were used.

There were, the one we settled on was
The Day Amanda Came.

But there were a bunch of other ones
that we came up with, weren't there?

It started with How to Fit Pipes,

which was never very good,
but that was what was written down.

Then we just started,
on set that day, looking up...

Looking up sort of...

Questionable book titles from the '40s.

- There were a load of them.
-Yeah.

There was one that was like,

Captain Dick's Discharge or something,
wasn't there?

- I think, yeah, that's a real book.
-That's a real, actual book.

I really need it.

Look at her look at you.

She's so good in this scene.
I love the fact that...

Gwendolyn is just a brilliant character.

And Erin just does such a great job with it.
It's such a pleasure to watch this scene.

This is definitely always a favourite scene
when I watch the film.

It was a great moment where, as a director,
I could just stand back,

because the comic timing and chemistry
between you two was so impeccable.

In those moments, I found myself
just watching and enjoying.

They're very, very strict at Barnard.

Oh, really? How strict?

Well, for example,
they would never let me do this.

Right. No.

Go.

You need something like this
in a film like this.

You do need some lightness. lt can't all be...

But don't worry, everybody,
it won't be that light for that much longer.

- Don't worry. This is really all...
-l'll find a way to make it creepy.

No, this was Austin's and my homage to
the '80s nerd comedies that we grew up with,

like Real Genius.

There is no book.

- Take it off.
-Really?

- You. You take it off.
-Oh, okay.

I'm not a virgin.
I have done it with four guys already.

And the movement of those glasses,

that's one of those
beautiful discoveries in the picture.

Then me anticipating a kiss
that doesn't come,

it's always quite funny as well.

Your kissing technique really improves
over the course of the film, Allen.

Well, that was sort of an ambush kiss.

I think Allen is not at his most confident
in this scene.

John, I can remember
when we were writing this,

and you wanted to show something
that you just never had seen before.

And it's pretty hard to do
when it comes to sexy stuff.

But the idea that your best friend
that you're in love with would watch you

lose your oral-ginity.

And in many ways, lend a helping hand.

You seem so proud, Lucien.

It's just one of those things that's so strange,

but on the day
when you have permission to do it,

it's like, "Hey, I get to do this today.

"That's really weird,
but I might as well have fun."

That line of ours as well, "I bet you don't
even read," and my response, "I do,"

I'd say that was her improvised line,
and it's one of my favourite lines in the film.

I also have to say
that Gwendolyn is clearly deaf.

Because there's a lot goes on,
jangling the keys right next to her ear,

I know she's concentrating
on other things, but...

- This was all a lot of fun.
-This was great.

It was one of those things
where we filmed all of this

within a few rooms
that were very close to each other.

When you film a sequence like that,

it's kind of impossible
to keep the geography of it in your head.

You're kind of going,
"How is this ever going to make sense?"

Then you see it in the edit
and you're, like, "Wow! That's so cool!"

Yeah. The day was so fast.

At the end of the day
we really had no idea if we had gotten it.

Because we had a storyboard artist,
and his name is Austin Bunn.

- Austin actually storyboarded the sequence.
-Really?

That was a blast. Yeah.

John was so busy, so ljust blocked it
and used my comic book skills.

I think I saw some light
or movement in the library.

You put the flashlight in your mouth, Dane.
lt was like a really committed choice.

Well, it was the easiest way to do it fast.

I remember the first time, Dan, I think
we saw the movie together for the first time

and it wasn't completely done,
but this song was in it.

- Did you guys have any idea?
-No, I had no idea.

One of the main questions you had after
is if we liked it, and we both just loved it.

There's just something really cool
and almost, in a way,

-is about what the Beats were about.
-Right.

Just kind of mixing it up and throwing
people for a loop and breaking the mould.

Lu?

Yeah. I remember you saying to me,

"Do you think it's been used
too many times, that song, in other things?"

Frankly, I don't think it's ever been used
as well as that.

So, I think this is the best version of it.

And also, the way you bring it back in here.

We know you're here.

Again, this is Reed working
with mostly available light here.

Yeah. She used to talk about wanting to
explore the blacks, the various blacks.

Using the light in the background
to tell a story.

Hey!

Lu, that's enough!
What's wrong with you? Come on.

Not yet. We have to finish.

Enough now! It's over!

Let me go! Allen!

Let go! Let...

Allen! Get off of me.

This scene was always important to me

as, dramatically, this scene
where Lucien takes things one step too far.

And we realise that there's a dangerous
undercurrent which is going to...

And you see Allen's caretaking.

...lead to where the movie is about to go,
the darker elements.

The "gimme"
of the lights blinding the guards

wasn't perhaps our shining moment
as screenwriters,

but the way that they've cut it
and Brian added colours...

-lt makes it look really good.
-It works.

- It works, yeah.
-You go with it.

The South Hall library is a church

and these are the sacraments...

This was work, John. You had to
hunt for these, right, during the edit?

- For the book covers?
-Yeah.

Yeah, it was fun researching with you what
books were actually restricted in the 1940s

and considered salacious.

And then try to figure out
what would work onscreen.

- To literacy.
-To literacy indeed.

This is the scene when I watched,
I think this was day two,

and when I talk about the movie
starting to find its own voice,

this is the scene,
where all of a sudden having all of you there

and the character interactions present to me,

made me realise that this is such a movie
about camaraderie and friendship.

I remember it being a cool day because
it was the first day all of us were together.

Yeah, that's true.

To make people think
they left some mark on the world.

Because otherwise,
nobody would ever know.

I never want to end up on that wall.

- Remember that he said that, you guys.
-Yeah, a fateful line.

Austin, what made you think
of souvenir history

and that theme of being on the wall?

College. Remember how many places
like Columbia have places like this

where a lot of history
is written into the tables and onto the walls.

We wanted to find out
what would a revolutionary think

about all those kind of tombstones,
at least that's how I think of them.

Yup. He says that we should
all have another round.

You've had plenty of time to celebrate.

Your library high jinks
made the morning paper.

I'm sure you're all very proud.

John, how do you direct a group scene
like this?

I mean, you got everybody in one scene.

You use the wide shot
to really just see where the scene is at

and just see
where everyone's connections are

and then you used
each individual's coverage.

We filmed it in two directions.

One favouring Allen and Lucien, since it was
kind of now the two of them against David,

and then the other facing David.

And then as you progressed
into the coverage, you can really focus on

the smaller emotional moments and
the conflict that scene really needed to build.

'Cause this is really where the fun and the joy
of the first half of the movie

is now going to transition
to the fateful events,

where we know the movie's going
in the second half.

I remember you telling me this was like
David's uninhibited, uncensored moment.

I thought, "Oh, my gosh, it's all kind of
the irony about this whole coming together."

It's exactly what they wanted
and it terrifies them.

I remember an improv we did before we shot.

That was the scene

in which Lucien leaves the red scarf
at David's place,

which was very helpful in filming this scene.

To have a very specific memory,

not only a mental memory,
but a physical memory of what happened.

You are everything to me.

Everything to me, do you hear me?

Yeah. The idea was that this authentic self
that they're all talking about,

David is the first person to really show
at this moment.

David, time and place.

Shut up, traitor.

Austin, this was the song actually playing,
right, in the summer of the murder?

It was the most popular song, yeah,
in the summer.

The Ginsberg Journals talk about it
from the day after the murder,

when he was writing it.

But you've kind of set it up here nicely.
It's a different version, right?

This is like more acoustic version
or something or a cappella.

I think it's the same, The Mills Brothers,
isn't it? It's the same one?

- You think the actual same track?
-I think it is.

It's the same version, but you'll see
I used different parts of the song.

But this is the song that Allen Ginsberg
always connected to the murder...

In this time period in his life.

This is a true event.

The night before David was killed, they went
rolling each other down a slope in a barrel.

No!

- He lives!
-Excellent!

Judges award a...

We got to say Reed Morano
did an amazing job with this scene as well.

Because she shot this
in a variety of lighting states,

and just did such an amazing job.
It's a beautiful scene.

And shot it so fast, again, as always,
I know we keep saying that.

- Is it day for night, you guys?
-Not quite. But it was getting on for that.

Dawn for...

When we were filming this part,
the sun was coming up

and we were confident
that it just wasn't going to work out.

The fact that it plays...

Actually the brightness it gives this moment,

I think is like a really good,
I don't know the right word...

- Magical.
-Yeah, it adds a little magic to the moment.

Now, this really is the last scene we filmed,
right?

This is, yeah.

- Really?
-Yeah.

Also, up to this point, it's been all kind of
dream sequences, their affections.

So the fact that there is something a little off,
but you don't know what it is,

it makes you think,
"ls this a dream or is this real?"

- But that's real.
-That's all real. That's all us.

No CGI there.

Basically, the direction John gave us
during this scene

was to keep kissing
more and more ferociously.

I think that this was the most ferocious it got,
the one you used, John.

Yeah.

I feel like there are certain things,
like when an actor plays a piano in a movie,

you're always looking to see
if his fingers are really playing.

And when two people are kissing,

you always really just want to see
if they're emotionally involved in the kiss.

And it just meant a lot
to make sure that we got this right,

in the three minutes we had to film it.

- You are a romantic dude, John.
-I am.

You believe in feelings way more than I do.

S0, you trusted that moment.

Ten pages on Spengler's Decline of the West.
Due tomorrow.

Brutal.

And then just the devastation of that turn
so quickly after that.

- He's such a fickle lad.
-He really is.

He's capricious.

Dane, we played with a level of emotion
of how much cruelty at that moment

or how much love you felt for Allen
at that moment, and how much regret.

Basically, how much was he able
to turn himself around.

I think he's always conscious
of when he's vulnerable

and has to turn himself around.

But I think that was a moment
that was hard for him to deal with.

And I think we wanted to show that struggle.

Cat's back.

I'm just gonna use the loo.

- That was an improvised line.
-Your line. It was great.

-"L'm just gonna use the loo."
-Best extra ever.

It's a background actor.

What happened to this cake?
It's, like, is it mostly whipped cream?

- We established that she can't cook.
-Yeah. We've established she can't cook.

You wrote it in the script,
"lt was a lumpy cake."

- Where the hell have you been?
-I was out.

I packed all your stuff. It's in your bag.
I'm gonna be at Gram's tonight.

Hey, hey. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

- No, you just say that.
-l'm sorry.

It's one of your million words,
and they don't mean anything.

- I love her strength in this moment.
-She's really good.

I think in the research we did, Edie was
so unconventional for a woman at that time.

Wearing overalls, working on the docks

and had an inner strength
to stand up to Jack Kerouac,

and Elizabeth Olsen
just really brought that to life.

This scene that's about to play was one of,
I think, the miracle saves of this production.

It's so good. Michael C. Hall.
Michael's amazing in this.

This was shot in maybe three minutes, John.

- You think so?
-Like three minutes, five minutes.

- Two takes, seven minutes.
-Awesome.

I know this is crazy.

I don't even know what I'm doing here,
but ljust had to...

And Michael was really out on a fire escape.

And true story, what you're watching.

Let me make it up to you.

Lu, where are you?

I'm going back to bed.

Another word and I call the police.

Poor David.

I think it says something very powerful
about their relationship.

Like, Lucien
doesn't close the window on him.

He just can walk away from him
knowing that he won't do anything.

- He said that, but then this moment is...
-He let him in.

This was the scene I was referring to
because as happened in history,

David actually tried to hang KitKat,
Kerouac's cat, and did.

Kerouac saved his cat's life.

But I guess in production,
looking at the mechanical cats,

somebody realised
it was gonna look really fake

and came up
with this genius alternative version.

What kind of sick son of a bitch
would do something like this?

I was always wanted it to be slightly singed
when it comes out of there or something.

In my head, like,
it's gonna be slightly blackened.

That was the scene
where the cat was the most difficult

'cause you wanted it to be facing out,
and it kept facing back in.

That's a weird thing.
You only learn through doing films,

that if you put a cat in an oven,
it'll only face the back wall.

You can only learn that
through doing movies.

- Hopefully.
-Hopefully.

Him gassing him in the oven was, obviously
you'll see where that's going to pay off later.

- It connects into history.
-Yeah.

And Lucien's past, it's kind of like a sign
or a signal to Lucien from David.

This was always your idea for a scene, John,

was that he had to write this paper
in front of the vitrines,

at the location of their revolution.

And the same night, the night before
he was a hero at this location...

Now he was just another student sitting
at a desk writing Lucien's paper for him.

It's a really beautiful moment.

- This was the other audition scene.
-Yeah.

I remember when we did this scene,

John just got us to improvise it once,
without the crew in the room,

and just gave us both sort of separate goals
to try and achieve in the scene.

Mine was just, obviously,
to not let Lucien leave.

And we just immediately, sort of within
about 30 seconds of starting the improv,

both Daniel and I were sort of crying.

It was an amazing, kind of cathartic,
emotionally-charged scene.

Jack knows the tricks.

You weren't gonna tell me?

Again, this was a scene, John,

we discussed a lot about how cruel to be
and how sympathetic to be with Lucien.

That's always the fine line to tread with him

because you don't want people to be
so turned off by what he's doing,

his behaviour, that they turn against him.

You still want a bit of sympathy to be there.

But I also like
that this is Allen's parting shot.

Again, he taps into the one thing

that he knows will really needle Lucien
before he leaves him.

You got what you wanted.

You were ordinary,
just like every other freshman.

And I made your life extraordinary.

Go be you now, all by yourself.
Leave me alone.

You don't mean that.

- Allen!
-Please.

Leave.

I'm sorry. I couldn't talk over that.

When Brian Kates saw these dailies,
Brian, our editor, he called me and said,

"This is some of the best performance dailies
I've seen on any of the movies I've done."

- That's nice.
-That's very sweet.

But in reference to what you're saying, Dane,
this is why I fought and kept this moment in,

which you're about to see.

Yeah, that's right, John. I remember.
I've seen so many versions.

- And I don't even think it's in the script.
-lt's not. And I broke perspective.

But I thought it was so important
to see that Lucien...

Shatters too.

Yeah, that was actually a really
incredibly hard thing for Lucien to do.

Allen, have you seen him?

- He's not in his room.
-He left.

I did something wrong.

Really wrong.

You have no reason to help...

It's amazing the humanity
that Michael brings to David as well.

David could so easily come across
as just some weird, creepy stalker,

but I think Michael really got to
the heart of what was going on.

He's incredibly sympathetic.

Well, the idea was that he was
kind of Allen Ginsberg just 15 years ago

and he'd met Lucien at the wrong time.

He was too old
and too disconnected from his life,

and so it kind of imploded on the inside.

Please.

This also is a very important moment
for Allen.

He does send David to Lucien.

Well, we see how that goes.

So, when it comes to Lucien
later asking things of Allen,

that's a very important scene
to keep fresh for me.

Arthur Rimbaud.

He's going to wipe the grin off his face.

Let's go get on the docket.

- That's my favourite line of the film.
-"Let's go get on the docket."

That's my favourite line.

ljust wanted
one bit of lightness and comedy

before we get into
what we're about to get into.

What do you mean?
This movie's about to be turned hilarious.

It's a laugh riot.

Again, this scene was another one.
We had seven scenes to do this day.

- We did this in 14 minutes.
-We had seven scenes to do every day, John.

- Michael's ability, his vulnerability...
-I think Michael's amazing.

...it's stunning.

The way he takes that information
on the chin,

that Lucien says,
"The reason I'm leaving is you."

The way he still says, "I'll catch up to you."
I mean, it's just painful.

We're taking a walk.

- It sounds fine.
-Yeah.

It sounds fine.
I think this walk's gonna go okay.

"Yeah, we're just taking a walk."

Dane, in your mind,

had your character, had Lucien decided
what he was going to do that night?

No, absolutely not. I think he went
to the Merchant Marines to get away,

and when David shows up,
he knows that he needs to take him away

and finally just let him have it.

Pour his heart out to him
and truly try to end it.

But I don't think he's thinking about murder.

Lizzie's gown, what she's got on,

and the sofa and the wallpaper altogether
is amazing in that.

Like a Hopper painting.
I love what Reed did with this scene.

That's not Dane.

But it almost was for a second.

Again, the sound that goes...
What you did was so cool.

Your capacity to make eye contact
is just staggering, Dan.

I don't think any young, gay man
would have that bravery, but you did.

That song was suggested to me
by my friend Steven Winter.

When I thought about
it playing at that moment,

ljust heard a cappella in my head.

And so, we recorded two versions
so we could transition to the a cappella.

And this was the case.

There were these historical records
that were letters.

Anzio's gonna be the last place
I ever see with my eyes.

I do find the reading of Adonais

in this montage...

That's what really gets me about it.
It's one of my favourite poems.

Yeah.

John, it must be hard
to shoot these scenes in some ways

because they come alive in montage.

S0, you're just shooting little pieces.
Was it challenging?

I shot each one as I would cover a scene.

So I know I would have a whole
emotional arc if I ever needed to use it,

and then in editing
is where we got to play around

and decide
how much we needed of each one.

About to get naked with another dude.

Just in case for those of you keeping track.

That also gets a reaction from audiences.

That's the thing.

Everybody has been talking about
the sex scene recently as if it's graphic.

But it's really not.

It's nothing. It's pretty graphic emotionally.

It's about you taking control here,
which I think is important.

Because you're looking for the intimacy

that you've been trying to get with Lucien
for so long in this movie.

And from what I've seen,

the most accurate and beautiful
gay sex scene that I've seen in a film.

It doesn't call attention to itself.

It is what it is
and it's very beautiful and realistic,

and there's a lot of stuff going on.

And that's the thing.

Coming out of his devastation
of his perceived loss of Lucien,

you know, this is all just such an act of
trying to will yourself to get over something.

I think it's...

I find the whole thing,
the whole sequence really moving,

but I do find that scene especially so.

It means he's dead.

I honestly remember thinking I was
in decent shape when I made this film.

Now, I see I'm just skin and bone.

Yes.

I love the subtext that we went with
for this scene, Dan.

Yeah.

I actually think I'm 20 pounds heavier now
than when we made this film.

- Really?
-Yeah.

I think I probably would be too,
but not 20 pounds heavier.

You're taller than me.

I love the thing that we talked about
in that scene

is the idea that of course what's happened
is that the police are snooping around

'cause of what's happened with Lucien.

The idea that Allen thinks everyone knows

what he's done last night and sort of is just

drowning in guilt, and fear,
and shame, and worry.

And so it was definitely a nice subtext
to have for that scene.

So this is the first shot
of the first day of shooting, right, John?

Yeah, it was.

You don't know how excited I was to have
finally gotten to this place after 10 years.

- This shot...
-Even though we're in a real prison.

Yeah.

I finally believed that
this movie was happening.

Was it a jarring moment, when you
spend 10 years getting ready for something,

and then you're there and suddenly
the actual hard part has just begun?

No, believe it or not,
the hard part was the 10 years.

I was amazed at how joyous I felt this clay,
and how organically it all came.

That's good to hear.

This must've been hard for you two, though,
as actors, because it was the first day,

and you're really describing
the detonation point of your relationship.

But it had helped
to have those four days of rehearsal as well.

It was really invaluable.

And once it was over,
it felt really good to know

we didn't have to worry about it any more.

To get this stuff out of the way
was actually a gift.

But I remember it was the first time
I'd ever been in an actual prison.

Yeah, how did that feel?

And I remember thinking beforehand,
"Prison wouldn't be so bad.

"L'll just read a lot of books
and do a lot of push-ups."

But after seeing all the poop
on the walls and stuff,

I was convinced I never actually
want to go to actual prison.

- Don't go to actual prison.
-Okay.

That was another real moment
that happened, right, Austin?

- All these...
-And the bloody cigarettes, that's real.

- This happened.
-And they were Lucky Strikes.

This moment makes me cry.

To confess.

To say that it was an act of self-defence.

The DA is asking for my deposition

in writing.

I can't do it.

I quite like that. That little window
again into Lucien's inability to write.

The fear of that.

It's like, the one thing he really needs to be
able to do in this moment, he still can't.

We really talked about whether or not
he was dyslexic

or what was his issue with writing.

And I remember Danny gave us permission,
really, because you said yourself,

it would be really hard for you
to do the same thing.

Yeah, actually in life,
I don't ever write anything.

I am also scared of writing.

I'll d0 it.

We're going to say that it was...

I also think that's somehow
how Lucien gets power over people

is by empowering them
and by giving them responsibility

and giving them the chance to help him.

- Very well said.
-Right.

You wanna talk about this, John?

This is the scene
that really made me want to do this movie.

The fact that in 1944, you could
literally get away with murder

by portraying your victim as a homosexual.

- Your attacker as a homosexual.
-Your attacker.

I always said that there has to be something
that keeps me up all night

in order to want to commit
to doing something.

And when the film fell apart,
so many times as it did,

this is the one thing I could always go to
to rile me up,

to start making the phone calls the next day,
and to keep trying to get this movie made.

It is an amazing thing though.

And the fact that there's a sense
that progress only goes one way,

I don't think that there's any sense

that we're in any danger of returning
to any of this any time soon.

But it's important to remember
it wasn't that long ago actually.

...David appeared out of thin air.

So I sent him to Chicago.

Surprise.

David turned up there, too.

Then when Lucien wanted to go to Mexico,

guess who had a car idling in the driveway?

I love how she has elements of Lucien.

'Cause I was gonna ask,
she didn't spend much time with you

but she really had the same idea

about turning on and off that charm,
and that charisma,

and blocking somebody out suddenly.

It's something you both share
really well in this.

Yeah, and it's true
we didn't ever really talk about it.

And she wasn't there that much,

so it's an incredibly intelligent,
intuitive thing that she does.

I love the back of the head there.

The shot where she makes
the fateful decision.

That thing. Back acting.

And takes his cigarette.

You know what, Allen?

He calls you his guardian angel.

That's what he called David.

And shuts down.

That man ruined my son.

You're gonna help me
keep what's left of him.

Contrary to reports,

prison is not a tonic for the spirit.

One more joke.

We had to get one more in.

But I still find him so moving
in this scene as well.

What I find actually moving, how he is

when his dad comes in,
I find that moment so odd,

because we've seen this character
all through the film be one way

and then he's just immediately...

You don't think about
the Beats having parents.

Having mums and dads
who had total control over them.

And did Lucien tell you how he died?

And you and Ben really connected
in this scene.

Yeah, it was great.

I remember as he was packing his suitcase...

Was it you, or was it Ben who was like,
"Oh, my God,

"This group that we put together
is really disbanding. He's leaving."

That was... He got me that day.

L was in bits.

Now, Dane, you gotta talk about this scene
'cause this was another one-take.

Also really fast.

Yeah, I had to do a lot in this scene.

I had to undress myself,
put rocks in his pockets,

tie his feet and hands together,

and drag him into the Hudson.

And we didn't have time to choreograph it.

So I just needed to do it.

"Lucien Carr" it.

The car leaves in five minutes.

And Reed again did an amazing job
of just following me

-'cause we had no rehearsal. It was...
-I think...

- Sorry, go ahead.
-No, I...

No, I was just saying that I think
that develops as well

over the course of a film like this,

is that Reed got a sense of all our timings
and when we were gonna go.

So when you were loading up his pockets
or taking cigarettes out,

she has a sense
of where you're gonna go next

and we're just all in sync
after a certain point.

That's the joy of it.

There's that map.

I love the music.

Yeah, I know. This is pure John Krokidas,
what you're about to get here.

I love that shot as well.

That is cool.

It's great though,
'cause it's visual storytelling.

You don't see enough of stuff like this.

Well, if you'll notice a little bit,
the rewind thing,

it started off as something to play with,

as how to bring actively searching back
through your memory.

Nothing of memory goes
completely in forward

until we see you write
your final version of the murder.

Michael C. Hall actually did that backwards.

He's that good.

It might seem kind of shocking,
but this is very true.

Lucien Carr put his head in an oven
in an apartment

and tried to kill himself,
and David Kammerer saved his life.

He showed up

and pulled him out.

I hope audiences can read that handwriting.

Don't worry.
I ADR-ed me saying David Kammerer.

And Brahms returns, right, John?

That's independent filmmaking
special effects and not a...

Yeah, I was gonna say that. That's my...

Not my favourite.

Were you writing "The perfect day"
to that moment, Austin?

You mean, that we would have it there,
so we set it up earlier?

- Yeah.
-Yeah.

Again, use the focus to reveal.

This is the seminary. Right, John?

This is actually where Allen and Lucien
had their dorm rooms,

playing the role of Greystone.

Such a sweet moment.

He would leave me alone in the house.

- I was gonna die there.
-No, you weren't.

- Yeah, I know it.
-No, Mom. Stop.

This is the scene that
really features the most,

I think, devastating line of the film,
the line when Jennifer, in a moment, says,

"The most important thing
your father ever did was fail me."

It's sort of the crux, really, of the film.

I think, if we're saying something is, it's that.

And just the simplicity
with which she delivers that

and of her whole performance is so moving.

I don't know what to do.

He wants my help
and I don't know if I should give it to him.

I don't know if it's right.

It's just a mess.

You let him go.

- What?
-Don't help him.

- I can't, Mom. He's my best friend.
-Listen to me.

The most important thing
your father ever did was fail me.

She really says it like it's an order.

It's not just something she's saying to try
and make him feel better in the moment.

Or saying, "Your life could depend on this."

That close-up of you is actually
the last shot of the movie, filmed in a truck...

-lt was!
-That was filmed in a truck.

It was the very last shot of the film.

At 08:02 in the morning,
we put you in the grip truck.

I should say as well that
originally in this sequence,

there was a moment when Allen envisaged
the murder taking place

with Lucien in the role of David,
and Allen himself in the role of Lucien.

So, I did get into the Hudson as well
for a second.

But yeah, I was just mainly talking
over that photograph again.

And now we move forward.

The reason we cut that, the metaphor,
I think it was implicit

and it felt heavy-handed actually.

No, I'm not complaining about it being cut.
I was just registering that it did get in.

In the beginning,
it kind of looks like you underwater.

- But it's not. It's Michael.
-Yeah.

You're pathetic.

Where did this dialogue come from?
Was this all in the script?

There was a lot of this...
improvising in terms of like

-when Lucien and Michael...
-It's in the script.

It's in the script,
but I had the two of them improv

the conversation up to the point.

Yeah, when I was gonna say that shot

where they're walking up,
and you're gesturing, Dane.

The thing that's wild to me about this scene
is that we wrote the script,

and had to imagine what really happened
between these two guys.

And then, years later,
when the journals got published,

you could read Ginsberg's Bloodsong,

the novella that we're writing about
in this film,

and what happened in that moment,
his imaginings of moment eerily tracked

what we had cooked up
and hypothesized in the script.

And to me that was the sign
that we were onto something.

This shot as well, you never see this shot.

You never see this shot of somebody
actually having to get over the moment

of actually plunging a knife into someone.

That moment just kills me.

I love the look on his face
after I stab him the first time.

That...

There's that shot again.

Some things,

once you've loved them...

We're back.

The circle is complete.

And if you try to let them go

they only circle back and return to you.

They become part of who you are.

"Or they destroy you."

You can't show this to anyone.

Then tell the truth.

John, you remember that we'd wavered

about whether or not to show this scene
at the beginning of the movie or not.

I don't even know if the script that went into
production had this scene at the beginning

but you trusted that we needed to, noir-style,
see the apex of their conflict.

I remember very clearly that this
was definitely in the script that I read.

Wasn't it a rewrite that we got right before?

We tried taking it out just to see what would
happen if we began the movie without it.

And it was one of those things
where you can overthink things

over the years it takes to get a movie made.

And trusting your original instinct
was the best thing.

Allen Ginsberg.

He'll be with you in a minute.
Please have a seat.

What's about to come
is pure, cinematic, camera-move genius.

Where did that come from?
What was the origin point of that decision?

- The metaphor of this movie being a circle.
-Okay.

And when the circle breaks,
you're finally becoming your own self.

And it's Allen's decision
to take the deposition

and turn it in as a short story,
which was that moment.

That eyebrow thing is
something my dad does.

This is always a very strange moment
for me to watch.

Yeah.

Don't look.

I'd say up until this point,
this is the first time I didn't die in a film.

- So I barely made it, but I made it.
-Just.

Mr Ginsberg?

- At one point, the title of the movie...
-Right.

-. .. The Night in Question.
- Was it?

Kill Your Darlings is better.

No, please, tell me.

Professor Steeves says that you
submitted it as your final.

I like this because this is... You know,
and we're at the end, sort of now,

and this is Allen,
and he is, sort of, fully formed in this scene.

But you finished it.

I love that face.

Like an owl.

David Rasche was Laura Rosenthal,
our casting director's, suggestion.

And I didn't realise until he showed up on set

that he was Sledge Hammer.
Austin, do you remember?

Right, of course.

But again, he took a character
that could've just been a caricature

and brought life to him
and nailed the comic timing at the same time.

He's really great.

...retract this fiction as your final
or you may choose to be expelled.

What Will it be?

I let this moment play out
'cause I wanted there to be real tension.

Fine.

Consider me expelled.

Which made that decision even bigger.

No, this remains with us.

- Back home.
-One of my favourite shots coming up.

- Oh, yeah?
-John's...

John's cuing ability was really high that day.
There we go.

- Oh, yeah.
-And cigarette suck.

They were supposed to both be
writing poems and have that moment.

But that was too hard, I guess, to shoot.

I was planning a visual, poetic moment
of symmetry that was not underlined

but small enough to be poignant.

Yeah, absolutely, and it happens every day
but tells a story.

And this is a great moment,
'cause I don't think anyone expects this.

Thanks, John Cullum.

- That's Zach again.
-Zach again.

Bill O'Connor, reporting from Paris.

You do get the impression though, when
they say they're gonna keep your paper,

that it's like when your dad
finds your porno magazines.

- Yeah.
-"But I'm keeping this.

"You're not getting this back."

That's true, I guess.

Austin's suggestion, during production...

To go to the river?

Yeah, you were like,
"Can we go back to the murder location

"but shoot it during the day

"and get a nice, poignant,
peaceful moment there?"

- That was a great add.
-Yeah, good shot.

But with death comes rebirth.

Ogden on the wall. I noticed that last night
when we saw it.

- You never noticed that before?
-Never noticed it.

Ogden Nash.

And you're hearing
the actual Allen Ginsberg poem

he wrote the day after David Kammerer died,
when he went to the West End Bar.

And this is also the actual newspaper article

-but they did a really good job of...
-Great job.

- Your face...
-Yeah, putting my face in it.

What was the line in the headlines in that?

"He listens
to his sentencing lackadaisically."

Yes.

What was nice after we scored the film

was getting the chance to do a reprise
over the title cards.

- It really unified, and gave the music...
-A showcase.

Yeah, this music is just so delicate,
and achieved, and emotional.

That always gets a laugh, actually,
that Jack Kerouac title card.

I think sometimes you forget that
you're watching a movie about these guys.

And this is a great reminder.

Like, "Hey, by the way, the movie you just
watched is about Allen Ginsberg,

-"Jack Kerouac and William Burroughs."
-Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. You do. By the time
you get to the end, you've forgotten that.

You've forgotten that
they were going to do this.

And people are always shocked by that.

- It is an amazing fact.
-Yeah.

It just shows the lengths he went to
to not talk about it.

Great song choice.

And also the poetics of watching
their whole history play out

over time through photographs
was just so smart, John.

That was your idea.

Just start them off young
and to watch them age as friends together

'cause that's always been one of the most
poignant aspects about the Beats to me,

is that they stayed friends and continued
to evolve artistically, and as people.

Everybody's wearing tortoise shell glasses.
Look at all the three.

They copied your look, Allen.

Yeah, well. I wore 'em well.

Did I tell you that one of the reasons
I put The Libertines in

was because the relationship between
Allen and Lucien reminded me of...

- Carl, and Pete.
-Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense.

It does.

Actually, yeah.

Hey, Reed!

Stephen!

We've already missed people
we should've been cheering for.

- Brian!
-He looks like Brian.

Brian picked that photo on purpose to...

I love that. And that kind of looks
like Christopher in a roundabout way.

That's a great photo as well.

Was it hard to find these, John?
Did you have to...

The Allen Ginsberg estate
actually came and helped us out

and gave us these photos
when we were doing the credits.

That's lovely. Isn't that lovely?

This makes me cry, the fact that this late
in their life, that they're still so close.

That is really just lovely.

- Daniel Radcliffe.
-Daniel Radcliffe.

Dane DeHaan!

Well, thank you, guys, for joining us.

Thank you very much
for listening, everybody.

I hope you found this illuminating.

- Yeah, thanks everybody.
-Thank you.