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1
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There have been further
shocking developments
2
00:00:03,623 --> 00:00:05,993
in the Mineola Swingers
Club Case today.
3
00:00:05,993 --> 00:00:10,723
With defendants Jimmy Sones
and Shelia Sones now free
after taking plea deals,
4
00:00:10,723 --> 00:00:13,193
the convictions of three of
the other defendants
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00:00:13,193 --> 00:00:15,923
look increasingly likely
to be overturned.
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00:00:16,553 --> 00:00:18,453
[thuds]
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00:00:18,453 --> 00:00:20,753
{\an8}[Mike] After the lawyers for
the Jamie Pittman,
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00:00:20,753 --> 00:00:24,653
{\an8}and Shauntel Mayo and
Patrick Kelly cases
filed appeals,
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00:00:24,653 --> 00:00:28,353
the 14th Court of Appeals
threw out those verdicts,
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00:00:28,353 --> 00:00:31,523
based on numerous
evidentiary errors
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00:00:31,523 --> 00:00:34,293
that the court said that
Judge Jack Skeen had made.
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00:00:34,293 --> 00:00:36,023
And this was something that
the defense attorneys
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00:00:36,023 --> 00:00:38,553
had complained about
the whole time,
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00:00:38,553 --> 00:00:40,493
Skeen seemed to
be siding with the state
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00:00:40,493 --> 00:00:45,393
and he did it to such
an extent that the court threw
out those verdicts.
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00:00:47,023 --> 00:00:51,553
He went to all the other
defendants and offered
them plea bargains.
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00:00:51,553 --> 00:00:54,193
To plead guilty
to injury to a child
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00:00:55,023 --> 00:00:56,993
and time served
so they could get out.
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00:00:56,993 --> 00:00:58,193
[camera shutter clicks]
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00:00:58,193 --> 00:01:02,293
[Melinda] But Dennis Pittman
still had an appeal pending
21
00:01:02,293 --> 00:01:05,753
and so Dennis wasn't
offered the plea bargain.
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00:01:05,753 --> 00:01:10,293
It was assumed he would
get out shortly afterwards,
like the others.
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00:01:10,293 --> 00:01:12,453
- [Melinda] But by then,
Patrick Kelly,
- [camera shutter clicks]
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00:01:12,453 --> 00:01:17,623
Jamie Pittman and Shauntel
had been in jail for
almost four years.
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00:01:19,093 --> 00:01:23,393
[Mike] Matt Bingham, one
of the most law-and-order
prosecutors,
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00:01:24,023 --> 00:01:26,653
makes a deal to let out
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00:01:26,653 --> 00:01:31,293
a bunch of the most
perverted, maniacal,
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00:01:31,293 --> 00:01:35,923
criminal monsters
that had ever struck Texas?
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00:01:35,923 --> 00:01:40,193
If Matt Bingham really
believed that they
had done what
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00:01:40,193 --> 00:01:43,753
he had prosecuted them
doing for four years,
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00:01:43,753 --> 00:01:45,823
do you really think
he would have let them go?
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00:01:45,823 --> 00:01:50,353
Absolutely not. They would be
rotting in prison for the
rest of their lives.
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00:01:52,293 --> 00:01:53,353
[theme music playing]
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[woman speaking]
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[child speaking]
36
00:02:04,893 --> 00:02:06,253
[man speaking]
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00:02:07,723 --> 00:02:10,123
[boy speaking]
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00:02:11,393 --> 00:02:15,193
[man speaking]
39
00:02:15,193 --> 00:02:16,493
[girl speaking]
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00:02:25,553 --> 00:02:28,193
[Reporter] Patrick Kelly,
nicknamed Booger Red,
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00:02:28,193 --> 00:02:32,193
was sentenced to life
in prison for his role in the
alleged child sex ring.
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00:02:35,753 --> 00:02:37,923
I was locked up for
almost four years.
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00:02:38,823 --> 00:02:40,293
[Patrick]
When I was in prison,
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00:02:40,293 --> 00:02:43,493
they overturned my case and
offered that plea
and I accepted it.
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00:02:46,493 --> 00:02:48,193
I was tired, I wanted
to get out.
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00:02:49,453 --> 00:02:51,123
I wanted to see my family.
47
00:02:51,123 --> 00:02:55,093
I wanted to see my mother.
I wanted to see my brother,
my wife, my son.
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00:02:55,093 --> 00:02:57,823
[Patrick] What's up bud?
49
00:02:57,823 --> 00:03:02,993
{\an8}This is my world right here.
I will fight a grizzly
bear for him.
50
00:03:02,993 --> 00:03:06,023
{\an8}I'm not that good anymore,
but I'll still try.
51
00:03:06,023 --> 00:03:08,823
{\an8}I'll give him my best shot
that's for damn sure. [laughs]
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00:03:11,493 --> 00:03:13,923
[Steven] When he actually went
to jail and they told me
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00:03:13,923 --> 00:03:19,293
that's what they're accusing
him of and the DA tried to
get me to turn against him.
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00:03:19,293 --> 00:03:21,393
I told them they're crazy
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00:03:21,393 --> 00:03:23,553
because my dad ain't
never done anything like that.
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00:03:24,623 --> 00:03:26,393
'Cause it...
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00:03:26,393 --> 00:03:28,893
That was just all made
up stuff in their head.
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00:03:30,823 --> 00:03:33,253
To me, that's the worst thing
in the world for you to do,
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00:03:33,823 --> 00:03:35,393
is to molest a child,
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00:03:35,393 --> 00:03:38,123
But yet I got convicted
on hearsay.
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00:03:38,123 --> 00:03:42,623
It's what was said,
no proof of anything,
it's just what was said.
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00:03:42,623 --> 00:03:45,723
[Patrick] I mean, these people
don't even know me,
know nothing about me,
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00:03:45,723 --> 00:03:48,023
just because of my nickname,
I was the devil.
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00:03:49,293 --> 00:03:52,753
For Margie Cantrell to
do the things she's done,
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00:03:52,753 --> 00:03:55,753
to brainwash them kids
to say the things they said,
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00:03:55,753 --> 00:03:58,653
because these kids are going
to be traumatized
for the rest of their lives.
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00:03:58,653 --> 00:04:00,393
Margie Cantrell is a monster.
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00:04:00,893 --> 00:04:02,823
[rooster crowing]
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00:04:03,353 --> 00:04:07,123
[dog barking]
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00:04:11,353 --> 00:04:13,623
[rooster crowing]
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00:04:13,623 --> 00:04:17,023
[Shuantel] This is Margie
and John Cantrell
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00:04:17,023 --> 00:04:20,553
and all of their
foster children.
And my three children.
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{\an8}That woman and
that man stole my life.
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00:04:25,353 --> 00:04:26,923
[camera shutter clicking]
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00:04:27,393 --> 00:04:28,893
Prison was hard.
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00:04:30,353 --> 00:04:31,893
I learned how to fight.
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00:04:32,653 --> 00:04:34,393
I was sexually abused
in prison,
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00:04:36,193 --> 00:04:38,093
by a group of women.
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00:04:39,653 --> 00:04:41,453
I was very targeted.
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00:04:42,893 --> 00:04:44,753
There was no
reason to live anymore.
81
00:04:46,723 --> 00:04:49,993
But I knew that God wasn't
going to leave me there
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00:04:49,993 --> 00:04:52,393
I didn't know how long
it was going to take
to get me home.
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00:04:55,123 --> 00:04:59,293
I filled my time with
Bible studies and law books.
84
00:05:00,753 --> 00:05:05,623
In 2011, I could have probably
took my bar exam and passed.
85
00:05:06,123 --> 00:05:07,453
That's how hard I worked.
86
00:05:11,093 --> 00:05:12,523
After I got out of prison,
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00:05:13,023 --> 00:05:14,393
I knew by law,
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00:05:14,393 --> 00:05:17,823
I would never get to have
contact with my kids
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00:05:17,823 --> 00:05:19,653
until they were
18 and they found me.
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00:05:20,893 --> 00:05:22,123
It was... it was horrible.
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00:05:34,453 --> 00:05:36,823
[Hunter]
Margie was an attention hog.
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00:05:36,823 --> 00:05:40,193
Her appearance to the
public was important to her.
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00:05:40,193 --> 00:05:44,253
{\an8}So when we went on outings
like this, I remember
this is at the zoo.
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00:05:44,253 --> 00:05:46,123
{\an8}- [camera shutter clicks]
- [Hunter] I remember
this picture.
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{\an8}[Hunter] This was more
of just like a show of like,
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00:05:50,023 --> 00:05:52,193
like "Oh, hey, I got
this big happy family."
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But it was pretend.
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00:05:54,393 --> 00:05:58,393
Behind closed doors,
this was not true.
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00:05:58,393 --> 00:06:01,193
The entire time with
the Cantrells was
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00:06:01,193 --> 00:06:03,553
the worst time of my life.
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00:06:03,553 --> 00:06:05,823
[birds screeching]
102
00:06:12,653 --> 00:06:15,493
[Hunter] Being back here
brings back a lot of memories.
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00:06:15,493 --> 00:06:16,923
[camera shutter clicks]
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00:06:16,923 --> 00:06:19,353
[Hunter] I was always worried.
Always scared.
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00:06:21,293 --> 00:06:23,353
Margie was just,
she was an animal.
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00:06:25,123 --> 00:06:29,193
[Carly] The back scratcher was
the main punishment
for everything.
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00:06:31,553 --> 00:06:33,253
They would pull
your pants down,
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{\an8}whoop you with that,
we'd have welts
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00:06:36,193 --> 00:06:38,823
{\an8}on our backs and everything.
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00:06:40,653 --> 00:06:42,453
{\an8}And you weren't
allowed to cry.
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00:06:42,453 --> 00:06:44,923
{\an8}If you cried, you got
whupped again.
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00:06:51,523 --> 00:06:54,923
[Hunter] Making Margie angry
was as simple as
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00:06:55,393 --> 00:06:56,823
taking a cookie,
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00:06:56,823 --> 00:06:59,093
just 'cause you didn't ask
permission for it.
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00:06:59,093 --> 00:07:01,653
[Carly]
Or going outside
without permission.
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00:07:01,653 --> 00:07:03,723
[Hunter] Or talking to the
neighbors without permission.
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00:07:03,723 --> 00:07:07,553
It was everything, you know,
we... we couldn't be kids.
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00:07:07,553 --> 00:07:08,523
We weren't allowed to.
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00:07:12,293 --> 00:07:15,653
I remember the time
whenever I'd used all the
blankets in the closet
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00:07:15,653 --> 00:07:19,253
she had repeatedly bashed
my head into the doorframe,
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00:07:19,253 --> 00:07:21,753
she used to drag us across
the floor downstairs.
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00:07:26,193 --> 00:07:27,823
[Carly] I think the worst
thing that happened to me
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00:07:27,823 --> 00:07:30,393
was when my head
got slammed into
the tile floor.
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00:07:32,823 --> 00:07:34,623
It was right around here.
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00:07:38,393 --> 00:07:42,653
I ran away and she was yelling
and stuff about me leaving.
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00:07:44,093 --> 00:07:46,123
She ended up slamming my head.
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00:07:46,123 --> 00:07:48,823
I was on my knees and she
ended up slamming my head.
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00:07:51,293 --> 00:07:58,923
[Hunter] I was downstairs and
I heard the crash on
the tile and I ran upstairs,
129
00:07:58,923 --> 00:08:01,653
and I saw Carly on the ground,
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00:08:03,623 --> 00:08:05,093
it really set me off.
131
00:08:06,253 --> 00:08:07,553
It was just something
you didn't do.
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00:08:07,553 --> 00:08:09,553
You didn't put your hands
on my sisters, no matter
what you did.
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00:08:12,993 --> 00:08:14,723
[Margie]
Carly's never been struck.
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00:08:14,723 --> 00:08:18,193
Carly has never had a spank
and a swat, nothing, ever.
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00:08:18,623 --> 00:08:19,753
Hunter was.
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00:08:19,753 --> 00:08:21,493
Not by the back scratcher.
137
00:08:21,493 --> 00:08:24,753
I can sit here and say,
"Oh, no, no, no, never."
No, no I did.
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00:08:28,923 --> 00:08:32,753
I slapped him a few times.
I popped him in the
mouth a few times.
139
00:08:51,823 --> 00:08:56,453
Not long after that, a hearing
was held in family
court in Tyler.
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00:08:56,453 --> 00:08:59,553
{\an8}Finally, the world's gonna see
who these people really are.
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00:09:01,193 --> 00:09:03,993
{\an8}[Female reporter] Our top
is about the hearing
that took place today
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00:09:03,993 --> 00:09:06,123
{\an8}regarding the welfare
of the foster children
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00:09:06,123 --> 00:09:09,253
{\an8}currently in the care
of John and Margie Cantrell.
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00:09:09,253 --> 00:09:13,123
Those children were the
victims of the Mineola
Sex ring trials.
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00:09:13,123 --> 00:09:16,123
Representatives from
Child Protective Services
and attorneys
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00:09:16,123 --> 00:09:19,553
were in court to hear
the judges remarks about what
to do with the children
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00:09:19,553 --> 00:09:22,093
currently in the
Cantrell's home.
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00:09:22,093 --> 00:09:24,993
[male reporter]
The allegations of abuse
came from multiple children.
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00:09:24,993 --> 00:09:29,023
One child alleged being beaten
with a wooden back scratcher
until it snapped
150
00:09:29,023 --> 00:09:33,023
And another alleged that
Margie Cantrell popped her
in the mouth and slapped her.
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00:09:37,293 --> 00:09:40,753
{\an8}[Judge speaking]
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00:09:48,553 --> 00:09:54,653
{\an8}The children were ultimately
removed from Margie and John,
um because of physical abuse
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00:09:54,653 --> 00:09:56,823
{\an8}[judge speaking]
154
00:10:05,753 --> 00:10:08,553
They didn't make that choice.
I made that choice.
155
00:10:08,553 --> 00:10:13,453
Like they said, um,
"These are her kids.
She can relinquish them."
156
00:10:13,453 --> 00:10:17,823
And I chose to relinquish
the conservatorship.
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00:10:19,523 --> 00:10:21,653
[male reporter] Also in the
courtroom was Shauntel Mayo,
158
00:10:21,653 --> 00:10:24,293
herself a defendant in the
Mineola Swingers Club case
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00:10:24,293 --> 00:10:27,753
and the mother of three
children removed today
from the Cantrell household.
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00:10:29,553 --> 00:10:32,023
My heart's relieved,
161
00:10:32,023 --> 00:10:36,123
because they've known
before my kids
were put in there.
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00:10:36,123 --> 00:10:38,293
They took them out
of a good loving home,
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00:10:38,293 --> 00:10:42,653
granted there was issues in
our home, but it wasn't
issues that was accused of.
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00:10:44,293 --> 00:10:48,193
And put them into a worse
situation for nine years,
they've been abused.
165
00:10:48,193 --> 00:10:49,493
- So that's not true.
- [indistinct chatter]
166
00:10:49,493 --> 00:10:53,993
and this is the lies they
were spreading in the
news about us.
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00:10:53,993 --> 00:10:55,993
[male reporter] Throughout the
Swingers Club Sex Ring Trial,
168
00:10:55,993 --> 00:10:58,453
foster mother
Margaret Cantrell
was instrumental
169
00:10:58,453 --> 00:11:01,823
instrumental in exposing
the alleged abuse
in Mineola and Tyler.
170
00:11:01,823 --> 00:11:04,893
However with these fresh
accusations about
her own conduct,
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00:11:04,893 --> 00:11:08,353
the credibility of some
of her statements has
come into question.
172
00:11:08,353 --> 00:11:12,393
I believe, uh,
from looking at that,
173
00:11:12,393 --> 00:11:16,193
that, uh, we were
played in the media.
174
00:11:16,193 --> 00:11:21,193
To take innocent people
and start slamming
them is disgusting.
175
00:11:21,193 --> 00:11:22,823
{\an8}I think, over a
course of time,
176
00:11:22,823 --> 00:11:26,553
{\an8}we might be seeing very
interesting statements
from these kids
177
00:11:26,553 --> 00:11:28,653
{\an8}about what actually
happened to them.
178
00:11:28,653 --> 00:11:33,023
It's Thad Davidson, just
pushing it and pushing
it and pushing it.
179
00:11:33,023 --> 00:11:38,123
"If we can ever get the
children away from
Margie Cantrell's custody,
180
00:11:38,123 --> 00:11:41,653
we can get them
to tell the truth."
181
00:11:41,653 --> 00:11:44,253
- Would you guys like
to say anything?
- No.
182
00:11:44,253 --> 00:11:46,523
- No, I don't think
it's proper.
- Nah.
183
00:11:46,523 --> 00:11:50,523
What do you think about these
allegations that are
being made against you?
184
00:11:50,523 --> 00:11:53,453
We don't even know
most of them yet. [laughs]
185
00:11:55,023 --> 00:11:57,823
- [lawyer] Margaret!
Don't talk to him. Go.
- Yes, Ma'am.
186
00:11:57,823 --> 00:11:58,923
Yes, Ma'am.
187
00:11:58,923 --> 00:12:01,253
- No.
- Go, hurry up.
188
00:12:01,753 --> 00:12:03,123
[lawyer] Go.
189
00:12:03,993 --> 00:12:05,753
[reporter] Would you like to
say anything...
190
00:12:06,753 --> 00:12:10,723
We decided that the
best thing, is to go
back home.
191
00:12:11,823 --> 00:12:14,193
Home was always Vacaville,
192
00:12:15,753 --> 00:12:18,923
where we were loved,
where people knew us,
knew what we were like
193
00:12:21,023 --> 00:12:23,023
And it would be better.
194
00:12:24,023 --> 00:12:25,823
Yes, it was a dream home.
195
00:12:27,623 --> 00:12:32,653
But we loaded what we could
load in a U-Haul and
a trailer behind it.
196
00:12:32,653 --> 00:12:34,723
And everything else that
we ever owned,
197
00:12:36,023 --> 00:12:38,023
was left behind.
We locked the door,
198
00:12:39,653 --> 00:12:40,723
and we drove away.
199
00:12:52,653 --> 00:12:53,993
[camera shutter clicks]
200
00:12:53,993 --> 00:12:57,893
[Hunter] When they came
to get us, I felt like
it's about time.
201
00:12:57,893 --> 00:13:01,123
It had been so many years
dealing with her
202
00:13:01,123 --> 00:13:04,653
it was just a major,
major feeling of relief
to get out of here.
203
00:13:17,753 --> 00:13:20,493
I was having a lot
of issues with
204
00:13:21,123 --> 00:13:22,723
my adopted parents.
205
00:13:23,323 --> 00:13:24,853
We were not seeing eye to eye.
206
00:13:24,853 --> 00:13:27,753
And so I was you know
like, "What can I do?"
207
00:13:27,753 --> 00:13:29,853
And then I thought
about it, and I was like,
208
00:13:29,853 --> 00:13:32,553
"Well, I... I can look
up my dad."
209
00:13:33,653 --> 00:13:37,593
And I got the idea to
look him up on Facebook.
210
00:13:37,593 --> 00:13:41,593
We wasn't allowed to have
any type of contact
with Gabby.
211
00:13:41,593 --> 00:13:44,123
Uh, she would had to been
eighteen years old before
212
00:13:44,123 --> 00:13:46,493
we were supposed to have
contact with her.
213
00:13:46,493 --> 00:13:50,193
I got a Facebook page and all
that stuff and I posted
a lot of stuff in there,
214
00:13:50,193 --> 00:13:55,593
pictures and stuff of Gabby.
And I left it open
to the public.
215
00:13:55,593 --> 00:13:58,593
[Gabby] And that's how I found
him and then I contacted him.
216
00:13:59,293 --> 00:14:01,453
She gave me her phone number.
217
00:14:01,453 --> 00:14:05,023
I called her and the next day
her and her boyfriend
come out to visit.
218
00:14:05,853 --> 00:14:07,493
As soon as I got
out of the car,
219
00:14:07,493 --> 00:14:09,193
tears were running
down my eyes
220
00:14:10,493 --> 00:14:12,093
and I just embraced her.
221
00:14:13,123 --> 00:14:15,553
I don't even know how long
we stood there hugging.
222
00:14:15,553 --> 00:14:19,493
It was a happy,
very happy emotional day.
223
00:14:19,493 --> 00:14:21,393
[Gabby] He hugged me
for a really long time.
224
00:14:21,393 --> 00:14:23,553
- [camera shutter clicks]
- [Gabby] It had been
eight years
225
00:14:23,553 --> 00:14:25,393
since the last time
I'd seen him.
226
00:14:35,223 --> 00:14:39,123
[Gabby] At that time,
I was having a lot of problems
with my foster parents
227
00:14:39,123 --> 00:14:41,953
- and so I... I just
had enough.
- [camera shutter clicks]
228
00:14:41,953 --> 00:14:45,093
[Gabby] I ran away and
I never looked back.
229
00:14:46,953 --> 00:14:48,853
[Jimmy] When she ran away,
230
00:14:48,853 --> 00:14:51,093
she called me wanting me to
come pick her up.
231
00:14:52,123 --> 00:14:53,753
So, I did.
232
00:14:54,693 --> 00:14:56,693
I damn sure wasn't
gonna turn her down.
233
00:14:56,693 --> 00:14:57,953
[camera shutter clicks]
234
00:14:57,953 --> 00:14:59,823
[Gabby] There was no way I was
going to be able to come home,
235
00:14:59,823 --> 00:15:02,923
not actually having
formally recanted.
236
00:15:06,953 --> 00:15:08,823
[Mike]
Jimmy read some of my stories
237
00:15:08,823 --> 00:15:10,853
and in 2014 called me up.
238
00:15:11,923 --> 00:15:14,453
{\an8}And he said, Gabby really
wants to talk to you.
239
00:15:14,453 --> 00:15:16,493
{\an8}And so, we met at
this truck stop,
240
00:15:20,023 --> 00:15:23,653
and all of a sudden,
this big rig comes pulling
into the parking lot and
241
00:15:23,653 --> 00:15:26,953
Jimmy gets out
and he's... he's he's got this
Duck Dynasty shirt on.
242
00:15:26,953 --> 00:15:31,693
And... and there's Gabby,
who just looked like
a goth teenager.
243
00:15:31,693 --> 00:15:34,453
They came in, and they
sat down, and, and
she was real nervous.
244
00:15:34,453 --> 00:15:36,093
I remember her,
245
00:15:36,093 --> 00:15:37,953
her leg going up and down and
246
00:15:39,393 --> 00:15:40,923
she just started spilling.
247
00:15:40,923 --> 00:15:42,493
Can... can I read what
she said?
248
00:15:45,393 --> 00:15:47,693
She told me that everything
they'd said was a lie.
249
00:15:48,453 --> 00:15:51,123
"Sex kindergarten,
the swingers' club.
250
00:15:51,123 --> 00:15:54,223
Their parents and all the
other adults were innocent.
251
00:15:54,223 --> 00:15:57,723
She said, "They literally blew
up my mind and
planted stuff in it.
252
00:15:58,293 --> 00:15:59,923
I'm furious about it.
253
00:15:59,923 --> 00:16:02,923
They lied to me, they used me,
they screwed up my life.
254
00:16:04,393 --> 00:16:07,093
And she said, my ultimate goal
is for this to be overturned.
255
00:16:07,093 --> 00:16:09,393
My goal for myself
is just to tell the truth."
256
00:16:11,823 --> 00:16:14,123
{\an8}And not only Gabby, but Hunter
recanted as well.
257
00:16:14,123 --> 00:16:15,723
[camera shutter clicks]
258
00:16:15,723 --> 00:16:18,593
When I got a bit older,
I actually pulled
my older sister
259
00:16:18,593 --> 00:16:20,553
aside and asked her, you know,
260
00:16:20,553 --> 00:16:22,553
do you actually remember
261
00:16:22,553 --> 00:16:25,223
any of this swingers club
stuff happening?
262
00:16:25,223 --> 00:16:28,593
'Cause I started realizing
I don't remember any of this.
263
00:16:31,093 --> 00:16:33,393
And that's when it really
clicked that Margie
264
00:16:33,393 --> 00:16:34,493
brainwashed us.
265
00:16:37,323 --> 00:16:42,193
In the beginning, she asked me
if anybody had touched us and
things like that.
266
00:16:42,193 --> 00:16:43,853
At first I said no.
267
00:16:43,853 --> 00:16:45,653
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
268
00:16:48,123 --> 00:16:49,653
{\an8}[Hunter speaking]
269
00:16:49,653 --> 00:16:53,923
{\an8}But eventually, I just
basically started repeating
what Margie had been asking.
270
00:16:53,923 --> 00:16:55,493
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
271
00:16:57,593 --> 00:16:58,923
{\an8}[Hunter speaking]
272
00:17:03,753 --> 00:17:05,293
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
273
00:17:06,123 --> 00:17:07,323
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
274
00:17:07,323 --> 00:17:09,223
[indistinct chatter]
275
00:17:09,223 --> 00:17:11,553
[Dr. Wood]
My name is Dr. James Wood.
276
00:17:11,553 --> 00:17:16,493
I'm a retired professor of
psychology at the
University of Texas at El Paso
277
00:17:16,493 --> 00:17:20,593
{\an8}A lot of my research has been
on child interviewing,
child suggestibility.
278
00:17:21,093 --> 00:17:25,853
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
279
00:17:28,593 --> 00:17:31,653
One of the more amazing things
was just seeing those
280
00:17:31,653 --> 00:17:34,023
interviews and then
how they were conducted.
281
00:17:34,023 --> 00:17:35,453
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
282
00:17:35,853 --> 00:17:37,293
{\an8}[Hunter speaking]
283
00:17:37,753 --> 00:17:41,093
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
284
00:17:41,093 --> 00:17:42,223
{\an8}[Hunter speaking]
285
00:17:42,223 --> 00:17:43,753
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
286
00:17:44,123 --> 00:17:45,753
Okay.
287
00:17:45,753 --> 00:17:51,123
Introducing information.
So we've had, uh kindergarten
and did anything nasty happen?
288
00:17:51,123 --> 00:17:54,323
And you put them together.
So you've actually
linked the two ideas, so that
289
00:17:54,323 --> 00:17:59,723
suggests to... to Hunter, we
want a statement about nasty
things in kindergarten, right.
290
00:17:59,723 --> 00:18:01,723
That's coming from
the adults, not from him.
291
00:18:01,723 --> 00:18:02,953
[Margie]
Where did that happen?
292
00:18:04,293 --> 00:18:05,953
{\an8}[Ranger Kemp speaking]
293
00:18:09,223 --> 00:18:11,753
{\an8}[Dr. Wood] Margie is the last
person you want
touching that
294
00:18:11,753 --> 00:18:13,693
{\an8}child as you try to get
a statement from him.
295
00:18:14,223 --> 00:18:16,693
She's pressuring him.
296
00:18:16,693 --> 00:18:20,723
She's demonstrating her
control, she pulls his
hands down like that.
297
00:18:20,723 --> 00:18:22,653
She's giving him
a lot of signals about,
298
00:18:23,493 --> 00:18:25,553
you're gonna do
what I want right now.
299
00:18:25,553 --> 00:18:27,023
{\an8}[Ranger Kemp speaking]
300
00:18:27,693 --> 00:18:28,753
{\an8}[Carly speaking]
301
00:18:28,753 --> 00:18:30,123
{\an8}[Ranger Kemp speaking]
302
00:18:30,123 --> 00:18:33,093
{\an8}[Dr. Wood] Another suggestive
interviewing technique is
303
00:18:33,093 --> 00:18:35,093
{\an8}giving positive feedback,
304
00:18:35,093 --> 00:18:38,723
{\an8}which is praising a child
for making an accusation.
305
00:18:38,723 --> 00:18:40,593
{\an8}Saying, "You're doing
a great job."
306
00:18:40,593 --> 00:18:43,293
{\an8}[Ranger Kemp speaking]
307
00:18:54,593 --> 00:18:58,823
{\an8}When Margie is with Shelby
or Margie is with Hunter,
308
00:18:58,823 --> 00:19:02,323
{\an8}one thing is you could say,
well, that's
their caretaker, right?
309
00:19:02,323 --> 00:19:06,453
{\an8}But in the case of Gabby,
they had no relationship.
310
00:19:06,453 --> 00:19:08,293
{\an8}She wasn't her foster child.
311
00:19:08,293 --> 00:19:11,923
{\an8}And yet Kemp brings
Margie in to question Gabby.
312
00:19:12,493 --> 00:19:14,223
{\an8}[Margie clears throat]
313
00:19:14,223 --> 00:19:17,493
{\an8}[Gabby] They would pull us
into this room.
It was a small white room.
314
00:19:17,493 --> 00:19:21,493
{\an8}It was just the same question,
just in different words, over,
and over again.
315
00:19:21,493 --> 00:19:25,593
Just hours of the
same question, wanting me to
change my answer.
316
00:19:26,193 --> 00:19:27,393
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
317
00:19:32,393 --> 00:19:33,653
{\an8}[Gabby speaking]
318
00:19:33,653 --> 00:19:35,853
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
319
00:19:35,853 --> 00:19:37,223
{\an8}[Gabby speaking]
320
00:19:37,223 --> 00:19:39,223
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
321
00:19:39,223 --> 00:19:40,923
{\an8}So they can't get her to
change her story.
322
00:19:40,923 --> 00:19:44,393
{\an8}So they put her in a room
with Shelby and let
Shelby interview her.
323
00:19:44,393 --> 00:19:46,023
{\an8}[Gabby speaking]
324
00:19:46,023 --> 00:19:47,693
{\an8}[Shelby speaking]
325
00:19:47,693 --> 00:19:48,953
{\an8}[Gabby speaking]
326
00:19:51,593 --> 00:19:53,023
{\an8}[Shelby speaking]
327
00:19:53,723 --> 00:19:58,393
{\an8}[Gabby speaking]
328
00:20:02,653 --> 00:20:04,093
{\an8}[Shelby speaking]
329
00:20:06,493 --> 00:20:07,923
{\an8}[Dr. Wood]
Totally in violation.
330
00:20:07,923 --> 00:20:10,593
{\an8}You're not supposed
to have children question
other children,
331
00:20:10,593 --> 00:20:13,553
{\an8}and you're not supposed
to have children pressure
other children.
332
00:20:13,553 --> 00:20:16,393
{\an8}[Gabby speaking]
333
00:20:16,953 --> 00:20:19,853
{\an8}[Shelby speaking]
334
00:20:19,853 --> 00:20:20,853
{\an8}[Gabby speaking]
335
00:20:24,323 --> 00:20:25,593
Margie Cantrell
336
00:20:25,593 --> 00:20:28,023
and Ranger Philip Kemp
337
00:20:28,023 --> 00:20:31,553
violated just about
every rule in the book
338
00:20:31,553 --> 00:20:33,693
for good interviewing
of children.
339
00:20:34,323 --> 00:20:36,093
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
340
00:20:44,053 --> 00:20:45,323
{\an8}[Ranger Kemp speaking]
341
00:20:45,323 --> 00:20:46,323
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
342
00:20:46,323 --> 00:20:47,323
{\an8}[Ranger Kemp speaking]
343
00:20:47,323 --> 00:20:49,223
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
344
00:20:53,123 --> 00:20:54,853
{\an8}[Dr. Wood]
It was crystal clear
345
00:20:54,853 --> 00:20:59,223
{\an8}that the children were
subjected to very intense
pressure and
346
00:20:59,223 --> 00:21:03,123
{\an8}suggestive questioning by
Ranger Kemp and
Margie Cantrell.
347
00:21:03,123 --> 00:21:06,853
{\an8}[Gabby speaking]
348
00:21:07,323 --> 00:21:10,753
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
349
00:21:10,753 --> 00:21:14,853
{\an8}[Melinda] It was Margie
Cantrell telling them
350
00:21:14,853 --> 00:21:16,223
{\an8}that these things happened.
351
00:21:16,223 --> 00:21:19,193
{\an8}So it's like, if you tell the
kid there's a Santa Claus and
352
00:21:19,193 --> 00:21:21,853
{\an8}and if you're not good,
Santa Claus won't bring
you anything
353
00:21:21,853 --> 00:21:25,593
{\an8}and you're putting that belief
in that child's head.
354
00:21:25,593 --> 00:21:28,393
{\an8}Then you could put the
bad beliefs in there too.
355
00:21:28,393 --> 00:21:30,953
[Hunter] None of this stuff
actually ever happened.
356
00:21:30,953 --> 00:21:33,653
We were manipulated
in to believing it.
357
00:21:36,823 --> 00:21:40,023
{\an8}When I finally realized
the sex scandal never happened
358
00:21:40,023 --> 00:21:43,693
{\an8}and she knew it never happened
I didn't understand why
359
00:21:43,693 --> 00:21:49,493
{\an8}she forced a child
into telling you something
that didn't happen.
360
00:21:49,493 --> 00:21:51,693
{\an8}[Margie speaking]
361
00:21:55,953 --> 00:21:58,193
We learned much later
362
00:21:58,193 --> 00:22:00,223
the reason she's doing this
363
00:22:00,223 --> 00:22:03,323
is because
the worse the child is
364
00:22:03,323 --> 00:22:05,953
then the more
the foster parents pay.
365
00:22:07,653 --> 00:22:11,853
And so, Margie started saying
that the children had told her
366
00:22:11,853 --> 00:22:13,393
that they
were sexually abused.
367
00:22:14,853 --> 00:22:17,693
[Gabby] Margie Cantrell
got a lot of money
368
00:22:17,693 --> 00:22:19,493
for Shelby, Hunter and Carly.
369
00:22:19,493 --> 00:22:21,323
The more messed up they were
370
00:22:21,323 --> 00:22:23,923
the more money she got
for taking care of them.
371
00:22:24,553 --> 00:22:26,123
I think it's horrific.
372
00:22:27,493 --> 00:22:30,693
[Hunter] She was creating
this horrible backstory for us
373
00:22:30,693 --> 00:22:33,493
so that she could get paid.
374
00:22:33,493 --> 00:22:36,393
Margie just needed the money.
She wanted the money.
375
00:22:36,393 --> 00:22:39,753
[Jenna] She would brag,
"Oh yeah.
376
00:22:39,753 --> 00:22:43,293
John, John, now if we say
this about this kid,
377
00:22:43,293 --> 00:22:46,053
then, you know we can get
$1,500 for that kid."
378
00:22:46,493 --> 00:22:48,223
So everybody,
379
00:22:48,223 --> 00:22:50,453
even if they
didn't have issues,
380
00:22:51,123 --> 00:22:53,123
they were
going to "have issues"
381
00:22:53,123 --> 00:22:55,323
when they
got to the Cantrell's house.
382
00:22:56,823 --> 00:22:59,493
[Dr. Wood] From an
economic point of view,
383
00:22:59,493 --> 00:23:03,223
if she has these three foster
children staying with her,
384
00:23:03,223 --> 00:23:05,693
they typically will be
returned to their parents.
385
00:23:05,693 --> 00:23:07,953
But if the parents
are convicted
386
00:23:07,953 --> 00:23:09,853
and they're put into jail,
387
00:23:09,853 --> 00:23:11,693
then the children are
not going to be returned
to those parents
388
00:23:11,693 --> 00:23:17,453
and they become a steady,
reliable source of income.
389
00:23:17,453 --> 00:23:21,493
[Melinda] That's how we
learned that each one
of these children they got,
390
00:23:21,493 --> 00:23:23,493
every single child,
391
00:23:23,493 --> 00:23:27,323
their level escalated,
so that they made more money.
392
00:23:30,393 --> 00:23:31,923
{\an8}[woman speaking]
393
00:23:37,553 --> 00:23:38,753
Yes, I was.
394
00:23:38,753 --> 00:23:40,393
I heard
395
00:23:40,393 --> 00:23:44,753
through one of the articles
that it was 3000,
396
00:23:44,753 --> 00:23:47,393
maybe like 700 per child.
397
00:23:47,953 --> 00:23:49,653
I wish.
398
00:23:49,653 --> 00:23:53,193
But no, never, ever,
ever was that true.
399
00:23:54,123 --> 00:23:56,593
You're never paid
400
00:23:56,593 --> 00:23:58,493
to take care
of these children.
401
00:23:58,493 --> 00:24:02,323
You have to put
the money out first,
support them.
402
00:24:02,323 --> 00:24:06,453
It's a reimbursement plan
that the state has.
403
00:24:06,453 --> 00:24:09,953
And as one would come in
404
00:24:09,953 --> 00:24:14,223
that might have been
a fire starter,
405
00:24:14,223 --> 00:24:19,953
um poke the eyes out of cats,
rip their limbs off,
406
00:24:19,953 --> 00:24:25,753
they would definitely require
about $1,400 a month
407
00:24:25,753 --> 00:24:27,323
or something like that.
408
00:24:27,323 --> 00:24:32,823
That would be much more but
that's a 24-hour type child.
409
00:24:35,453 --> 00:24:37,593
[Thad] Margie is
a master actor.
410
00:24:37,593 --> 00:24:41,593
She's totally alive when she
gets to play hero to the jury.
411
00:24:41,593 --> 00:24:44,553
She's totally alive
running around the countryside
412
00:24:44,553 --> 00:24:47,853
talking to whatever law
enforcement agent is foolish
enough to listen to her
413
00:24:47,853 --> 00:24:50,753
{\an8}about how these poor kids
have been traumatized
414
00:24:50,753 --> 00:24:52,393
{\an8}and damaged
by all these evil people,
415
00:24:52,393 --> 00:24:53,693
but I'm here to save them.
416
00:24:54,493 --> 00:24:56,393
But it's actually just a con.
417
00:24:56,393 --> 00:24:57,593
It's just a money scam.
418
00:24:59,023 --> 00:25:01,593
[Margie] I did my job.
I did what I was
supposed to do.
419
00:25:01,593 --> 00:25:03,553
And that's where
my part ended.
420
00:25:03,553 --> 00:25:07,323
Even though people can hate me
and try to blame things on me,
421
00:25:07,323 --> 00:25:09,853
I did not know the
inner workings of this case,
422
00:25:09,853 --> 00:25:11,593
nor the people, nor anything,
423
00:25:11,593 --> 00:25:12,753
and then you start hearing
424
00:25:12,753 --> 00:25:14,553
well you
made it all up Margie,
425
00:25:14,553 --> 00:25:16,023
you made this whole thing up.
426
00:25:16,023 --> 00:25:17,953
And now I'm on trial.
427
00:25:17,953 --> 00:25:21,123
But, where's the kids
in the mix?
428
00:25:21,123 --> 00:25:24,493
Listen to them.
Maybe talk to them more.
429
00:25:24,493 --> 00:25:28,123
Maybe another forensic...
I don't know.
430
00:25:28,123 --> 00:25:31,123
But somewhere lies the truth.
431
00:25:32,693 --> 00:25:34,453
{\an8}[woman speaking]
432
00:25:38,323 --> 00:25:41,323
[Margie] After everything
I've been through and
everything I've seen,
433
00:25:41,323 --> 00:25:43,393
I don't think
they had a choice.
434
00:25:44,123 --> 00:25:46,593
But Shelby says
this is her truth
435
00:25:46,593 --> 00:25:48,753
and she stands by it
to this day,
436
00:25:50,323 --> 00:25:52,953
and that's the end
of her story.
437
00:26:01,123 --> 00:26:02,953
{\an8}[man speaking]
438
00:26:06,123 --> 00:26:08,493
I probably couldn't say
anything to her.
439
00:26:08,493 --> 00:26:10,693
I would...
I would probably just leave.
440
00:26:13,953 --> 00:26:16,223
[door squeaking]
441
00:26:19,393 --> 00:26:21,853
[Hunter] They basically
took my childhood from me.
442
00:26:23,123 --> 00:26:25,453
They did steal my memories.
443
00:26:28,453 --> 00:26:31,693
With everything that happened,
I never thought I'd ever see
my mom again.
444
00:26:33,123 --> 00:26:36,493
{\an8}I can imagine it hurt a lot
445
00:26:36,493 --> 00:26:39,853
to have your children
testify against you,
446
00:26:39,853 --> 00:26:42,223
and put you in prison
for something you didn't do.
447
00:26:42,223 --> 00:26:45,223
And knowing that they were
manipulated into doing it.
448
00:26:46,123 --> 00:26:47,323
It must have been hard.
449
00:26:49,123 --> 00:26:55,123
[Hunter quoting prosecutor
and himself]
450
00:27:04,753 --> 00:27:11,123
"The record will reflect
Hunter pointed to
and identified the defendant."
451
00:27:11,123 --> 00:27:14,393
[Shauntel]
Having my son testify
against me broke my heart.
452
00:27:15,453 --> 00:27:16,693
It broke my spirit.
453
00:27:18,193 --> 00:27:20,493
It broke my spirit
for all the kids.
454
00:27:21,223 --> 00:27:23,193
{\an8}[man speaking]
455
00:27:23,193 --> 00:27:25,293
There was no reason
to forgive him.
456
00:27:26,553 --> 00:27:28,293
I've never blamed my children.
457
00:27:31,123 --> 00:27:32,923
From day one,
I've known that it wasn't...
458
00:27:32,923 --> 00:27:34,693
it had nothing to do
with the kids.
459
00:27:38,593 --> 00:27:41,323
When we were reunited
after all these years
460
00:27:41,323 --> 00:27:43,593
my mom was
just so happy to see me,
461
00:27:43,593 --> 00:27:47,023
she... she couldn't control
her feelings seeing me,
462
00:27:47,023 --> 00:27:49,593
I mean she busted into tears.
463
00:27:49,593 --> 00:27:52,023
She was hugging me.
She wouldn't let me go
or anything.
464
00:27:53,693 --> 00:27:56,123
[Shauntel] I didn't think
that I deserved
465
00:27:56,123 --> 00:27:59,653
the chance to...
to be his mom.
466
00:27:59,653 --> 00:28:02,823
I couldn't believe that he
even wanted to be around me.
467
00:28:02,823 --> 00:28:05,323
Because they wouldn't have
been taken from me
468
00:28:05,323 --> 00:28:08,753
if I hadn't started
doing drugs in 2003.
469
00:28:09,553 --> 00:28:10,953
It was my fault.
470
00:28:12,593 --> 00:28:14,693
It's always been my fault.
471
00:28:15,923 --> 00:28:17,593
After I got out of prison,
472
00:28:17,593 --> 00:28:20,493
I would have
major anxiety attacks.
473
00:28:20,493 --> 00:28:23,123
I couldn't handle it,
I couldn't get a job.
474
00:28:24,293 --> 00:28:26,593
But Jamie held my hand and
475
00:28:27,393 --> 00:28:31,053
taught me how to live again.
476
00:28:31,053 --> 00:28:33,853
My children haven't
forgiven me completely.
477
00:28:33,853 --> 00:28:35,393
But I have.
478
00:28:35,393 --> 00:28:37,053
and I had to forgive myself
479
00:28:37,053 --> 00:28:41,823
because I couldn't be a mom to
them without forgiving myself.
480
00:28:52,053 --> 00:28:53,593
[Gabby] After I had recanted,
481
00:28:53,593 --> 00:28:56,053
the reuniting
with my mom happened.
482
00:28:56,053 --> 00:28:59,053
It was really emotional. Uh,
she didn't know I was coming.
483
00:28:59,623 --> 00:29:01,323
I remember she was...
484
00:29:02,423 --> 00:29:04,863
she was
watering some plants out,
485
00:29:05,893 --> 00:29:08,623
uh, by the porch area
that they had.
486
00:29:11,623 --> 00:29:14,693
[Shelia] This truck pulls up.
It was Jimmy in the...
487
00:29:16,253 --> 00:29:19,863
didn't know who the hell that
was in the passenger seat.
488
00:29:19,863 --> 00:29:22,993
Then they both
got out of the truck.
489
00:29:25,353 --> 00:29:27,393
And I finally realized...
490
00:29:27,993 --> 00:29:29,493
who she was.
491
00:29:33,253 --> 00:29:36,223
I dropped my water hose and
492
00:29:37,323 --> 00:29:39,763
I grabbed
that child up so fast
493
00:29:39,763 --> 00:29:42,393
and so hard
and I hugged her so long.
494
00:29:46,053 --> 00:29:48,153
I didn't want to let her go
495
00:29:48,153 --> 00:29:50,393
and I didn't want her
to go away.
496
00:29:53,323 --> 00:29:55,393
Look how cute you were.
497
00:29:57,623 --> 00:29:59,693
Not that you're not cute now.
You're adorable.
498
00:29:59,693 --> 00:30:02,523
[Gabby] She was like, "I can
either be your best friend,
499
00:30:02,523 --> 00:30:06,623
or I can step back
into the role of your mother,
it's up to you."
500
00:30:06,623 --> 00:30:09,253
And I was, you know,
finally like, "I,
501
00:30:09,253 --> 00:30:11,423
I want you
to be my mom again."
502
00:30:11,423 --> 00:30:13,893
[Shelia] That's the picture
I had.
503
00:30:13,893 --> 00:30:16,393
That's the picture
I kissed every night.
504
00:30:16,793 --> 00:30:18,393
And I talked to.
505
00:30:26,593 --> 00:30:28,523
[Jimmy] I wrote this
when I was in prison.
506
00:30:30,323 --> 00:30:34,893
And I was
definitely depressed,
507
00:30:34,893 --> 00:30:37,423
I mean, I was giving up hope.
508
00:30:37,423 --> 00:30:42,223
I was laying in my bunk
asleep, and I had this dream.
509
00:30:42,223 --> 00:30:45,623
And I got up immediately
after the dream stopped,
and I wrote it.
510
00:30:50,993 --> 00:30:54,593
"As I sit and think
about my beautiful Gabby,
511
00:30:54,593 --> 00:30:58,793
how all it was is now
nothing more than memories,
512
00:30:58,793 --> 00:31:02,423
I look outside and watch
an angel fall from the sky.
513
00:31:05,353 --> 00:31:09,993
I look at her with a smile,
although no words are said,
514
00:31:09,993 --> 00:31:12,893
she grabs my face
and breaks down instead.
515
00:31:15,523 --> 00:31:17,793
I ask, 'What's the matter?'
516
00:31:17,793 --> 00:31:20,323
as I wipe her tears away,
517
00:31:20,323 --> 00:31:23,953
she leans in closer
and she had this to say."
518
00:31:25,863 --> 00:31:27,793
"Love life and keep it simple,
519
00:31:27,793 --> 00:31:30,153
but most of all,
keep your heart open,
520
00:31:30,153 --> 00:31:31,423
[sniffles]
521
00:31:34,153 --> 00:31:37,253
because she loves you
and still needs you.
522
00:31:38,523 --> 00:31:40,423
My angel closed her eyes,
523
00:31:41,253 --> 00:31:43,123
and her body went limp
524
00:31:44,793 --> 00:31:47,623
as her spirit
ascended back to heaven.
525
00:31:47,623 --> 00:31:50,793
I just sat there and cried
because I knew
what she meant...
526
00:31:51,123 --> 00:31:52,253
Gabby."
527
00:31:56,223 --> 00:31:57,523
You okay?
528
00:32:00,153 --> 00:32:02,523
It makes me cry
every time I read it.
529
00:32:06,423 --> 00:32:09,523
I mean, I was to the point
where I was ready
just to off myself.
530
00:32:11,153 --> 00:32:12,693
That's how depressed I was.
531
00:32:16,423 --> 00:32:18,893
This right here kept me alive.
532
00:32:47,053 --> 00:32:50,593
The place where it all
supposedly began.
533
00:33:06,223 --> 00:33:07,953
How could
such an innocent building
534
00:33:07,953 --> 00:33:10,153
be so damn evil for me?
535
00:33:10,153 --> 00:33:11,353
I mean...
536
00:33:12,253 --> 00:33:14,053
this is where it started.
537
00:33:15,123 --> 00:33:17,323
It's where the lies came from.
538
00:33:18,623 --> 00:33:21,693
and I really
don't like being here.
539
00:33:21,693 --> 00:33:23,393
If my
little old arms could do it,
540
00:33:23,393 --> 00:33:26,053
I'd take every damn brick
out of this bitch.
541
00:33:27,993 --> 00:33:30,223
[Shauntel] I didn't know
it existed.
542
00:33:30,223 --> 00:33:32,523
How did my kids know what
the inside of it looked like?
543
00:33:34,353 --> 00:33:35,763
Because I don't.
544
00:33:35,763 --> 00:33:38,253
But ask my two oldest kids
545
00:33:38,253 --> 00:33:40,323
and they can tell you
what it looks like.
546
00:33:40,323 --> 00:33:42,893
That woman walked my kids
through this building.
547
00:33:51,393 --> 00:33:52,693
[door closes]
548
00:33:54,623 --> 00:33:58,323
[Hunter] Margie brought me
to this building
the first time I was here.
549
00:34:02,223 --> 00:34:03,993
We drove up one day,
550
00:34:03,993 --> 00:34:06,253
Margie talking about
wanting to buy the place
551
00:34:06,893 --> 00:34:09,423
and I was like 8 years old.
552
00:34:11,893 --> 00:34:13,123
It was creepy.
553
00:34:13,863 --> 00:34:16,153
And, uh, I remember stopping
554
00:34:16,153 --> 00:34:18,393
and seeing
a basketball in the back.
555
00:34:18,393 --> 00:34:21,153
And, uh, I can't remember
what I said about it,
556
00:34:21,153 --> 00:34:23,223
but I think
I wanted the basketball
557
00:34:23,223 --> 00:34:25,253
so I think
Margie just kind of took that
558
00:34:25,253 --> 00:34:27,253
and kind twisted that,
559
00:34:27,253 --> 00:34:30,523
you know,
trying to make it seem like
we had been here before
560
00:34:30,523 --> 00:34:31,953
and that was my basketball.
561
00:34:35,693 --> 00:34:38,123
As far as
she's talking about memories,
562
00:34:38,123 --> 00:34:40,393
I don't know if
Shelby maybe said something,
563
00:34:40,393 --> 00:34:43,493
but I had no memory
of the place at all.
564
00:34:45,523 --> 00:34:51,693
I've never been in here
with any family member ever,
565
00:34:51,693 --> 00:34:54,693
um, not even in the building
or on the property.
566
00:35:13,323 --> 00:35:14,993
[dog barking]
567
00:35:20,763 --> 00:35:22,893
[Carly] My mother
bought me a house.
568
00:35:22,893 --> 00:35:25,153
It's a mobile home right
across the street from her
569
00:35:25,153 --> 00:35:26,523
with two lots,
570
00:35:28,053 --> 00:35:29,693
so if anything happens,
571
00:35:30,763 --> 00:35:31,993
I'm right there.
572
00:35:33,053 --> 00:35:37,523
In a year or so, I'm hoping
to have me and my mother
573
00:35:37,523 --> 00:35:41,153
and my grandmother
all right there
in the same vicinity,
574
00:35:41,153 --> 00:35:42,693
if not side by side.
575
00:35:45,593 --> 00:35:48,223
[Hunter] I hope to go back
and finish school
576
00:35:48,223 --> 00:35:49,893
and get some stability
577
00:35:50,693 --> 00:35:51,993
is really what I hope.
578
00:35:51,993 --> 00:35:53,523
In 10 years it would be nice
579
00:35:53,523 --> 00:35:56,253
to have a family of my own.
580
00:35:56,253 --> 00:35:58,993
[Shauntel] There you go.
There you go, Carly.
581
00:36:02,153 --> 00:36:03,953
[Hunter] I would like
to see myself
582
00:36:03,953 --> 00:36:06,693
closer to the family
I have right now.
583
00:36:10,693 --> 00:36:13,393
I constantly feel guilt
about what happened.
584
00:36:13,393 --> 00:36:17,493
I do feel like if I'd have
stuck with my answer
"no" in the beginning,
585
00:36:17,493 --> 00:36:19,693
that it had never happened,
586
00:36:19,693 --> 00:36:23,053
um, I feel like none of this
would have ever happened.
587
00:36:26,623 --> 00:36:29,993
[Gabby] The fallout
is devastating and
it still affects us.
588
00:36:31,793 --> 00:36:35,523
This is something
that we have to live with
for the rest of our lives.
589
00:36:36,893 --> 00:36:38,993
Justice for my parents
590
00:36:38,993 --> 00:36:42,353
would be their names cleared,
591
00:36:42,353 --> 00:36:46,153
it taken off of their record,
because that felony
is still on their record.
592
00:36:46,153 --> 00:36:49,593
Justice for Margie would be
seeing her behind bars.
593
00:36:52,623 --> 00:36:54,423
[Shelia] This one woman
594
00:36:55,863 --> 00:36:57,763
hated so much
595
00:36:58,393 --> 00:37:01,393
that she destroyed us.
596
00:37:01,393 --> 00:37:03,153
She was the rich woman.
597
00:37:03,153 --> 00:37:05,993
They're going to believe her
over the poor people.
598
00:37:07,623 --> 00:37:11,123
Especially poor people
that have had
599
00:37:11,763 --> 00:37:13,863
poor people problems.
600
00:37:13,863 --> 00:37:16,693
You could tell by
the newspaper clippings
601
00:37:16,693 --> 00:37:20,053
and everything that
602
00:37:20,053 --> 00:37:24,623
society thought that,
because we were poor,
we were indecent,
603
00:37:24,993 --> 00:37:27,323
immoral, dirty.
604
00:37:27,893 --> 00:37:30,493
{\an8}[man speaking]
605
00:37:36,223 --> 00:37:37,953
I don't trust anybody.
606
00:37:40,863 --> 00:37:44,423
My life experiences are really
negative toward the world.
607
00:37:45,423 --> 00:37:48,523
People are liars
and they're mean.
608
00:37:54,793 --> 00:37:56,693
[Jimmy] We were innocent.
609
00:37:56,693 --> 00:37:59,253
Our lives
were turned upside down.
610
00:37:59,253 --> 00:38:01,553
It cost me
four years of my freedom,
611
00:38:03,253 --> 00:38:05,193
the loss of my daughter.
612
00:38:05,193 --> 00:38:07,523
I wasn't there as a father.
613
00:38:10,553 --> 00:38:13,353
You know it makes me sad
the fact that
614
00:38:14,453 --> 00:38:15,823
I wasn't there.
615
00:38:18,723 --> 00:38:21,193
I didn't get to raise
my daughter.
616
00:38:21,193 --> 00:38:23,163
I will never
get those years back.
617
00:38:35,723 --> 00:38:37,993
{\an8}[Mike] After those guys
got out,
618
00:38:37,993 --> 00:38:40,723
{\an8}I would still get letters
from Dennis Pittman,
619
00:38:40,723 --> 00:38:44,723
{\an8}and basically saying,
"Look, all these other people
are out, what about me?"
620
00:38:44,723 --> 00:38:48,453
{\an8}And he would
always sign his letters,
621
00:38:48,453 --> 00:38:50,923
{\an8}"Dennis Pittman,
the innocent man."
622
00:38:51,823 --> 00:38:53,453
{\an8}And...
623
00:38:53,453 --> 00:38:56,553
he just got caught up
in Smith County justice.
624
00:38:56,553 --> 00:38:58,623
We all knew he should be free,
625
00:38:58,623 --> 00:39:01,923
but the wheels
of the criminal justice system
turn really slowly.
626
00:39:03,093 --> 00:39:04,893
So, every year went on,
and it was like,
627
00:39:04,893 --> 00:39:06,993
of course this guy's
gonna get out eventually.
628
00:39:06,993 --> 00:39:08,193
[buzzes]
629
00:39:32,193 --> 00:39:36,993
[Jason] I would check to see
where he was
in the parole review.
630
00:39:36,993 --> 00:39:39,693
Because Dennis was convicted
of an offense
631
00:39:39,693 --> 00:39:42,523
that allowed him
to be parole eligible
632
00:39:42,523 --> 00:39:44,823
with less than
half time served.
633
00:39:44,823 --> 00:39:49,453
So I would periodically check
just to see and I happened to
634
00:39:49,453 --> 00:39:51,293
look it up and see that
635
00:39:51,293 --> 00:39:53,893
it didn't show
he was in TC any longer,
636
00:39:54,453 --> 00:39:57,293
and so I text Melinda
637
00:39:57,293 --> 00:40:01,193
and I said,
"Dennis might've made parole."
638
00:40:01,193 --> 00:40:04,093
And, you know,
she responded back
639
00:40:04,093 --> 00:40:05,993
"Or he died,"
640
00:40:05,993 --> 00:40:07,793
which I'd never
even considered.
641
00:40:07,793 --> 00:40:09,423
And then
we started looking into it and
642
00:40:09,423 --> 00:40:12,353
of course found out that
he had indeed passed away.
643
00:40:17,253 --> 00:40:19,623
[Mike] He died
of COVID complications.
644
00:40:20,193 --> 00:40:21,993
And that was that.
645
00:40:22,653 --> 00:40:24,193
So the last innocent man...
646
00:40:24,923 --> 00:40:26,063
was dead.
647
00:40:31,993 --> 00:40:33,893
{\an8}[man speaking]
648
00:40:35,253 --> 00:40:37,063
{\an8}- No.
- [man speaking]
649
00:40:37,893 --> 00:40:39,293
He did?
650
00:40:40,453 --> 00:40:43,093
What? I did not know that.
651
00:40:46,063 --> 00:40:49,093
What? Oh, my gosh. Ugh.
652
00:40:49,093 --> 00:40:50,723
Well, now I feel really bad.
653
00:40:52,353 --> 00:40:53,723
Yeah, I didn't know.
654
00:40:54,553 --> 00:40:57,163
His life now
is defined by this.
655
00:40:57,553 --> 00:40:59,063
You know, he died
656
00:40:59,063 --> 00:41:02,293
without ever having
a chance to tell his story
657
00:41:02,293 --> 00:41:04,163
and for people to believe him.
658
00:41:04,163 --> 00:41:07,553
And so imagine how lonely and
isolating it must have felt.
659
00:41:07,553 --> 00:41:10,823
It's not about pride and
arrogance and winning cases.
660
00:41:10,823 --> 00:41:14,063
It's real lives that were
affected and impacted.
661
00:41:14,063 --> 00:41:16,193
We all had a responsibility.
662
00:41:16,193 --> 00:41:17,923
We have failed him
in many ways.
663
00:41:20,423 --> 00:41:23,453
[Mike] It was the
final tragedy in this story.
664
00:41:23,453 --> 00:41:27,253
And you can trace
every single terrible event
back to two people.
665
00:41:27,893 --> 00:41:30,623
Margie and John Cantrell.
666
00:41:30,623 --> 00:41:33,093
They were
never held accountable.
667
00:41:35,293 --> 00:41:39,553
There were various people
talking about ways
they could go after them
668
00:41:39,553 --> 00:41:41,693
with some kind of
fraud charges.
669
00:41:41,693 --> 00:41:43,253
You know,
I think, ultimately,
670
00:41:43,723 --> 00:41:45,723
the fact that
671
00:41:45,723 --> 00:41:48,893
we were dealing with
a bunch of people
who lived in trailers,
672
00:41:48,893 --> 00:41:50,893
a bunch of people
who didn't have any money.
673
00:41:50,893 --> 00:41:52,693
I mean, ultimately,
I think people
just didn't give a [bleep].
674
00:41:53,923 --> 00:41:56,723
She got away with it.
And what does she do?
675
00:41:56,723 --> 00:41:58,093
She goes back to California
676
00:41:58,093 --> 00:42:00,093
and scuddles
back into her hole.
677
00:42:08,723 --> 00:42:10,293
[Margie] Life is good.
678
00:42:10,293 --> 00:42:12,923
I've been swimming a lot.
679
00:42:13,793 --> 00:42:16,693
And I take care of my husband.
680
00:42:16,693 --> 00:42:20,723
He has PTSD
and some problems.
681
00:42:20,723 --> 00:42:23,553
And we work in the backyard.
682
00:42:24,163 --> 00:42:26,523
Our backyard is gorgeous
683
00:42:26,523 --> 00:42:28,453
and I have,
684
00:42:28,453 --> 00:42:32,093
oh, so many grandkids
surrounding me,
685
00:42:32,093 --> 00:42:34,653
and grandma's very involved
in what they're doing.
686
00:42:34,653 --> 00:42:36,353
And, um...
687
00:42:36,923 --> 00:42:39,253
they make me laugh
688
00:42:39,253 --> 00:42:42,623
and they're coming into
those teenage years
so it really makes me laugh
689
00:42:42,623 --> 00:42:44,453
because I get to
send them home.
690
00:42:44,453 --> 00:42:47,353
But it's good.
Life is... is good.
691
00:42:48,553 --> 00:42:50,193
{\an8}[man speaking]
692
00:42:52,093 --> 00:42:56,353
I have regrets at
walking away from my home
693
00:42:56,353 --> 00:42:58,353
and our dreams.
694
00:42:59,793 --> 00:43:02,893
But we have new dreams
and they're pretty awesome.
695
00:43:05,893 --> 00:43:09,893
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