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This is suburbia,
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America's newest lifestyle.
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Home to more than half
the nation's population.
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America has a lot to learn
about this new lifestyle
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called suburbia,
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this booming new phenomenon
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that is happening across
the breadth of our land.
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One place to look for
some of the answers
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is to America's first
and largest suburb,
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Long Island, USA.
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Amityville's an old town,
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and it was one of the
major towns, you know.
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00:01:01,496 --> 00:01:04,412
There was bootlegging
in the '30s and '40s.
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That's pretty much what
Amityville was known for.
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I mean, Al Capone lived there.
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He had a house down
there on the water.
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And my family
moved from Brooklyn
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out to Long Island in 1952.
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It was after the war,
when everybody was
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migrating out of the
city onto the Island.
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And I grew up there
in Amityville.
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♪ Next time you're found
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♪ With your chin
On the ground ♪
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A few years later,
a family I knew
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00:01:34,877 --> 00:01:39,621
called the DeFeos also moved
from Brooklyn to Amityville.
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They bought a house
on 112 Ocean Avenue.
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In the front yard,
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which would be the
side that the windows,
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the famous windows,
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they had a sign with a pole,
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and it looked like a
big, white shingle,
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but it was a piece of wood.
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And it said in black
letters, "High hopes."
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♪ High hopes He's
got high hopes ♪
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♪ He's got...
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I took it as being
cool, you know?
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00:02:08,824 --> 00:02:11,348
Like, who does that? Why
are you doing it, you know?
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You know, for... hey,
they must have high hopes.
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00:02:13,829 --> 00:02:17,354
And I also took it as, like,
wherever they moved from,
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00:02:17,485 --> 00:02:19,356
maybe they were starting
over, and this was
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00:02:19,487 --> 00:02:22,316
gonna be the new thing,
and it was a good thing.
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00:02:22,446 --> 00:02:24,318
It was a good sign, to me.
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♪ Oops, there goes
Another problem, kerplop ♪
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♪ Kerplop
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00:02:31,977 --> 00:02:34,850
But after what happened,
I kinda wondered
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why it was "high hopes."
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00:02:38,375 --> 00:02:39,855
I don't know.
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I was the first
reporter on the scene.
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Not because of any
miracle or because
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00:05:34,725 --> 00:05:36,466
I'm any magical person.
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I lived the closest.
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And we get there, and
there's a crowd of people.
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And you could see police cars
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and emergency vehicles,
lights flashing.
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And I just asked,
"What's happening?"
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They said, "A whole
family has been murdered."
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00:05:52,221 --> 00:05:53,440
I said, "Oh, my God."
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00:06:02,797 --> 00:06:04,755
It was a very surreal scene.
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00:06:06,017 --> 00:06:08,063
It almost was like you
were in some kind of
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00:06:08,193 --> 00:06:09,847
science fiction horror movie,
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00:06:09,978 --> 00:06:11,719
and everybody was very quiet.
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00:06:13,677 --> 00:06:16,376
People were dead
silent, watching.
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00:06:17,986 --> 00:06:20,118
And as I'm standing
there, dear God,
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00:06:20,249 --> 00:06:22,512
I see them bringing out
one of the dead children.
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They accidentally dropped him.
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00:06:27,125 --> 00:06:28,562
They dropped him on the ground.
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00:06:28,692 --> 00:06:30,061
And when they put
him back on the tarp,
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00:06:30,085 --> 00:06:32,130
before they covered him
again, for a moment,
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00:06:32,261 --> 00:06:33,654
you could see the bullet hole.
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00:06:35,786 --> 00:06:37,875
People all went...
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00:06:38,006 --> 00:06:40,574
all gasped, because it
was just heartbreaking.
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00:06:41,705 --> 00:06:43,577
What can I tell
you about the case?
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00:06:43,707 --> 00:06:45,883
I can tell you that
we have six bodies.
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00:06:46,014 --> 00:06:47,494
We know that.
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00:06:47,624 --> 00:06:52,412
They were found last night
in bed, shot and killed.
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00:06:54,022 --> 00:06:55,173
Do these people appear to have
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00:06:55,197 --> 00:06:56,677
been shot at very close range?
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00:06:58,200 --> 00:06:59,723
They have been shot,
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00:06:59,854 --> 00:07:01,527
and I would say it had
to be at close range
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00:07:01,551 --> 00:07:04,032
because you can't get at a
long range within a house.
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00:07:05,773 --> 00:07:07,427
Chief, how unusual is it
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00:07:07,557 --> 00:07:08,797
to have six members of a family
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00:07:08,906 --> 00:07:10,604
on two separate floors killed,
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00:07:10,734 --> 00:07:12,693
and nobody moving
from their bed?
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00:07:12,823 --> 00:07:15,043
It's not the experience that
I've ever had in that line.
86
00:07:21,136 --> 00:07:24,748
And so I speak to
some kids who lived,
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00:07:24,879 --> 00:07:27,534
you know, in the
neighborhood, right around.
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00:07:27,664 --> 00:07:29,536
I said, "Listen, my
name is Joel Martin."
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00:07:29,666 --> 00:07:32,016
"I'm the news director
at BAB here in Babylon."
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00:07:32,147 --> 00:07:34,628
"BAB?" He said, "Are
you the crazy guy
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00:07:34,758 --> 00:07:36,543
who does the shows about
the flying saucers?"
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00:07:36,673 --> 00:07:38,153
I swear that was
the conversation.
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00:07:38,283 --> 00:07:39,937
I said, "Yeah."
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00:07:40,068 --> 00:07:43,463
Sure as heck, they tell
me the dog started to bark
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00:07:43,593 --> 00:07:45,943
between 3:00 and 3:30 sometime.
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00:07:46,074 --> 00:07:48,555
They have a hound or
one of those dogs that
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00:07:48,685 --> 00:07:50,085
they don't bark so
much as they bay.
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00:07:50,165 --> 00:07:51,645
It was baying.
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00:07:51,775 --> 00:07:54,125
Crying.
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00:07:54,256 --> 00:07:56,780
Six members of the
DeFeo family are killed.
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00:07:56,911 --> 00:07:58,591
I said, "So everybody
in the whole family?"
102
00:07:58,695 --> 00:08:01,959
"Oh, well, there's one...
One person left alive."
103
00:08:02,090 --> 00:08:03,657
I said, "Who's that?"
104
00:08:03,787 --> 00:08:07,051
"Ronnie... Ronnie DeFeo,
the sole surviving son."
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00:08:09,271 --> 00:08:12,143
Ronald is being safeguarded
by Suffolk County Police
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00:08:12,274 --> 00:08:13,971
- at this time.
- Why safeguarded?
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00:08:14,102 --> 00:08:17,105
Why? Because there's six
members of the family dead,
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00:08:17,235 --> 00:08:18,672
and we don't know why,
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00:08:18,802 --> 00:08:20,162
and he's the sole
remaining member.
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00:08:20,238 --> 00:08:21,675
Is he also a suspect?
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00:08:21,805 --> 00:08:23,981
He's not a suspect at this time.
112
00:08:24,112 --> 00:08:25,505
And the dog was found
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in the basement of this house?
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00:08:26,941 --> 00:08:28,812
Not in the basement,
but in the house.
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00:08:28,943 --> 00:08:30,814
- Alive?
- Yes, he's still alive.
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00:08:30,945 --> 00:08:32,947
And I don't know... Where
is the dog at this time,
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00:08:33,077 --> 00:08:34,601
do you know?
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00:08:34,731 --> 00:08:36,171
Anybody know the
name of the dog too?
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00:08:36,298 --> 00:08:37,908
No, I don't.
120
00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:40,084
Mrs. Gangitano, you
knew the DeFeo family.
121
00:08:40,215 --> 00:08:41,279
What sort of people were they?
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00:08:41,303 --> 00:08:43,174
I think they were
just very sweet,
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00:08:43,305 --> 00:08:47,614
very religious people,
very family-minded people.
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00:08:47,744 --> 00:08:49,024
And that's about
all I could say.
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00:08:49,050 --> 00:08:52,183
Very good, very
generous, this type.
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00:08:52,314 --> 00:08:55,012
Very close with their children.
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00:08:55,143 --> 00:08:56,187
How was their relationship
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with the oldest boy, Ron?
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00:08:58,233 --> 00:08:59,669
The phone rang.
130
00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,019
We were having
supper or finishing.
131
00:09:02,150 --> 00:09:05,196
For some reason, I said, "I
wonder what's wrong now?"
132
00:09:05,327 --> 00:09:06,850
I don't know why.
133
00:09:06,981 --> 00:09:11,855
And someone said all
the DeFeos were killed,
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00:09:11,986 --> 00:09:13,465
or were gone.
135
00:09:13,596 --> 00:09:18,775
And I thought, "Oh, was there
an explosion in the house?"
136
00:09:18,906 --> 00:09:22,039
What could I think of
that the whole family...
137
00:09:22,170 --> 00:09:26,348
And then they told me,
"No, they were shot."
138
00:09:26,478 --> 00:09:30,004
And then I think
I said, "Butchy."
139
00:09:43,191 --> 00:09:44,758
What kind of a
guy was Ron DeFeo?
140
00:09:44,888 --> 00:09:46,934
He didn't look for
trouble, you know?
141
00:09:47,064 --> 00:09:49,240
He was that type of
fellow, you know?
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00:09:49,371 --> 00:09:50,764
He was all right.
143
00:09:50,894 --> 00:09:53,070
Like, he seemed a nice
guy to me, you know?
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00:09:55,377 --> 00:09:59,686
It was November 13th,
1974, in Henry's,
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00:09:59,816 --> 00:10:00,991
was the last time I saw him.
146
00:10:01,122 --> 00:10:04,081
We were playing craps
on the pool table.
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00:10:04,212 --> 00:10:07,911
He was in and out three
or four different times,
148
00:10:08,042 --> 00:10:09,913
which was totally
normal for him.
149
00:10:10,044 --> 00:10:13,787
And, um, Ronnie had
come back to the bar
150
00:10:13,917 --> 00:10:17,051
and said that, "The mob
just killed my father."
151
00:10:18,792 --> 00:10:20,794
I was thinking, this poor guy.
152
00:10:20,924 --> 00:10:22,926
Especially, you know,
being with him that day,
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00:10:23,057 --> 00:10:25,102
you know, seeing
him all day long.
154
00:10:26,887 --> 00:10:29,759
Then I had gone home,
155
00:10:29,890 --> 00:10:32,240
and then I saw it on the
news later that night.
156
00:10:33,894 --> 00:10:35,330
I was stunned.
157
00:10:35,460 --> 00:10:36,940
It wasn't real.
158
00:10:37,071 --> 00:10:38,072
It was not real.
159
00:10:40,335 --> 00:10:43,773
Ronnie Sr. Was a very caring,
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00:10:43,904 --> 00:10:46,080
very protective father,
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00:10:47,951 --> 00:10:51,912
and he wanted to have
his wife admire him.
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00:10:53,304 --> 00:10:54,784
And Louise was sweet.
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00:10:57,134 --> 00:10:59,180
And the kids were adorable.
164
00:10:59,310 --> 00:11:02,270
And I just think it's
just a heartbreaking,
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00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:06,274
unbelievable situation.
166
00:11:14,108 --> 00:11:16,110
My sister and I came home
from school that day,
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00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:18,068
got off the school
bus, came home.
168
00:11:18,199 --> 00:11:21,855
I probably was watching
Dark Shadows on television.
169
00:11:21,985 --> 00:11:23,385
And then the 5
o'clock news came on,
170
00:11:23,465 --> 00:11:25,336
and I remember when we saw it.
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00:11:25,467 --> 00:11:28,209
I said, "Mom, Mom, there
was a murder in Amityville."
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00:11:28,339 --> 00:11:30,317
And then when we saw the whole
thing unfolding, and then
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00:11:30,341 --> 00:11:32,169
every day when we
got home from school,
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00:11:32,300 --> 00:11:34,104
we would rush home to
see what was on the news,
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00:11:34,128 --> 00:11:35,956
because there was no
other way to find out.
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00:11:37,522 --> 00:11:41,309
My mom, she volunteered at
the church in various ways,
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00:11:41,439 --> 00:11:43,180
and so she would talk
to the other mothers
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00:11:43,311 --> 00:11:44,984
and they would try to
find out from the police
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00:11:45,008 --> 00:11:46,444
what was happening.
180
00:11:46,575 --> 00:11:49,230
So that was how we all
found out what was going on.
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00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:51,972
The rumors were so crazy.
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00:11:52,102 --> 00:11:53,462
You know, "I bet
it was the mafia."
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00:11:53,582 --> 00:11:55,502
You know, there was all
this kind of speculation.
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00:11:56,628 --> 00:11:59,849
There was a sense of tension.
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00:11:59,980 --> 00:12:01,260
I remember thinking at the time,
186
00:12:01,329 --> 00:12:04,245
"Well, what family is
left to be with them
187
00:12:04,375 --> 00:12:05,681
when they go to the cemetery?"
188
00:12:23,394 --> 00:12:26,963
I just remember just the
warmth whenever I walked in,
189
00:12:27,094 --> 00:12:28,922
and they had their
portraits up on the wall
190
00:12:29,052 --> 00:12:30,314
going up the stairs.
191
00:12:32,229 --> 00:12:35,842
There was Allison, and
then there was Dawn.
192
00:12:38,061 --> 00:12:41,195
And then there was
Marc and John Matthew.
193
00:12:44,024 --> 00:12:46,069
Her mother, Louise...
194
00:12:48,071 --> 00:12:50,030
and Ronnie with his dad.
195
00:12:53,381 --> 00:12:56,340
Dawn was in my class
in eighth grade.
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00:12:58,081 --> 00:13:00,344
She really had a special
place in my heart.
197
00:13:02,651 --> 00:13:07,351
I had a instance where I fell
down the stairs in the school,
198
00:13:07,482 --> 00:13:10,528
and she was the only
person that came to my aid.
199
00:13:10,659 --> 00:13:12,400
So we became fast friends.
200
00:13:40,254 --> 00:13:41,908
The day of the funeral,
201
00:13:42,038 --> 00:13:44,998
we were sitting
in the choir loft.
202
00:13:45,128 --> 00:13:46,434
You could hear a pin drop.
203
00:13:46,564 --> 00:13:49,480
I mean, there was not
a sound in the place.
204
00:13:49,611 --> 00:13:50,481
There was no murmuring.
205
00:13:50,612 --> 00:13:52,396
It was just absolute silence.
206
00:13:52,527 --> 00:13:56,531
The doors open, and then
they bring in six coffins.
207
00:14:08,195 --> 00:14:10,327
And it's just this procession...
208
00:14:10,458 --> 00:14:12,068
One after the other
after the other.
209
00:14:12,199 --> 00:14:14,549
And I remember it
was the first time
210
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:16,159
that I actually thought,
211
00:14:16,290 --> 00:14:18,901
"Dawn is in one
of those boxes."
212
00:14:19,032 --> 00:14:20,337
Somebody that I knew.
213
00:14:20,468 --> 00:14:23,427
It was... there was
something... Again,
214
00:14:23,558 --> 00:14:27,214
it was so, um, unreal to watch.
215
00:14:35,526 --> 00:14:37,137
I do remember
216
00:14:37,267 --> 00:14:40,488
when they were all
in their caskets,
217
00:14:40,618 --> 00:14:43,447
and my parents had to
basically carry me through.
218
00:14:45,623 --> 00:14:48,583
It was just devastating.
219
00:14:52,717 --> 00:14:55,285
When they had the wake,
220
00:14:55,416 --> 00:14:59,986
they had these six coffins open,
221
00:15:00,116 --> 00:15:03,946
and some of them
were, like, deformed.
222
00:15:04,077 --> 00:15:08,342
Because... like, my father said,
"I don't recognize Louise,"
223
00:15:08,472 --> 00:15:09,952
you know?
224
00:15:10,083 --> 00:15:12,172
Such a sad time.
225
00:15:12,302 --> 00:15:14,348
Like, it was unbelievable.
226
00:15:14,478 --> 00:15:16,176
Unbelievable.
227
00:15:20,354 --> 00:15:23,487
Mrs. DeFeo's father
was at the wake
228
00:15:23,618 --> 00:15:26,534
with a gun,
229
00:15:26,664 --> 00:15:30,103
'cause he maybe was
involved in something
230
00:15:30,233 --> 00:15:34,063
and didn't know if
anyone was gonna come.
231
00:15:34,194 --> 00:15:36,065
I don't know what he expected.
232
00:15:58,783 --> 00:16:01,351
And I had... For
a very long time,
233
00:16:01,482 --> 00:16:03,963
I was having dreams that
they were still alive.
234
00:16:05,181 --> 00:16:06,443
And that was really strange,
235
00:16:06,574 --> 00:16:08,619
because I would dream
that I would see
236
00:16:08,750 --> 00:16:10,534
the kids outside of the house.
237
00:16:12,014 --> 00:16:13,731
And then I would follow
them into the house,
238
00:16:13,755 --> 00:16:16,453
and the mother and
father were there, alive.
239
00:16:16,584 --> 00:16:19,065
And I'm like,
"What's going on?"
240
00:16:19,195 --> 00:16:21,197
"You guys shouldn't be here."
241
00:16:21,328 --> 00:16:24,548
And they were like, "Well,
it was just a way to get
242
00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:26,463
Ronnie committed, you know?"
243
00:16:26,594 --> 00:16:28,204
"It was a ruse."
244
00:16:28,335 --> 00:16:30,032
"You know, it was
a fake murder."
245
00:16:30,163 --> 00:16:32,730
I mean, I think it was my mind
246
00:16:32,861 --> 00:16:36,125
trying to make it not real.
247
00:16:38,301 --> 00:16:40,129
I had that dream
quite a few times.
248
00:16:40,260 --> 00:16:42,131
It's been a few years, though.
249
00:16:49,312 --> 00:16:51,140
I would never fight
with my father,
250
00:16:51,271 --> 00:16:53,273
because I had no win, you know?
251
00:16:53,403 --> 00:16:54,728
I would run. He would
do all the hitting.
252
00:16:54,752 --> 00:16:56,015
I would run.
253
00:16:56,145 --> 00:16:57,755
I never raised my
hands at my father.
254
00:16:57,886 --> 00:16:59,453
He was the best
friend I ever had.
255
00:17:00,845 --> 00:17:02,238
No matter what I did,
256
00:17:02,369 --> 00:17:04,371
he was always there
for me to bail me out.
257
00:17:05,763 --> 00:17:07,417
Mr. DeFeo's physical size
258
00:17:07,548 --> 00:17:09,332
and his manner
matched perfectly.
259
00:17:09,463 --> 00:17:12,509
I remember asking my mother,
260
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,164
"Is Mr. DeFeo... Is
he in the mafia?"
261
00:17:15,295 --> 00:17:17,340
You watch movies,
you're aware of things.
262
00:17:17,471 --> 00:17:19,081
And, you know, my mother said,
263
00:17:19,212 --> 00:17:21,562
"I don't... I don't
know, I don't know."
264
00:17:21,692 --> 00:17:24,739
He was definitely a presence
when he stepped into a space,
265
00:17:24,869 --> 00:17:26,654
like a made guy.
266
00:17:26,784 --> 00:17:28,656
He looked like a
big, imposing guy,
267
00:17:28,786 --> 00:17:30,440
and Ronnie did not.
268
00:17:30,571 --> 00:17:33,748
Mr. DeFeo, he worked at the
Buick dealer in Brooklyn.
269
00:17:37,230 --> 00:17:39,101
The grandfather owned it.
270
00:17:40,494 --> 00:17:43,105
Ronnie, he worked
with his family,
271
00:17:43,236 --> 00:17:44,324
he's making a lot of money.
272
00:17:46,413 --> 00:17:50,286
Ronnie and his dad were
at a constant battle
273
00:17:50,417 --> 00:17:52,332
between each other.
274
00:17:53,811 --> 00:17:56,162
Because Ronnie wanted to do
whatever he wanted to do.
275
00:17:56,292 --> 00:17:57,835
He didn't think there
was any rules for him.
276
00:17:57,859 --> 00:17:59,426
He was a wise-ass.
277
00:17:59,556 --> 00:18:01,356
He didn't listen. He
didn't play by the rules.
278
00:18:01,384 --> 00:18:02,664
You know, he did what he wanted,
279
00:18:02,733 --> 00:18:04,494
went where he wanted,
came home when he wanted.
280
00:18:04,518 --> 00:18:07,695
He had attempted, Ronnie Jr.,
281
00:18:07,825 --> 00:18:11,612
to shoot his father
a year before.
282
00:18:11,742 --> 00:18:15,572
He claimed it was when he saw
his father hitting his mother,
283
00:18:15,703 --> 00:18:19,707
and he grabbed a
gun and put the gun
284
00:18:19,837 --> 00:18:21,274
to his father's temple,
285
00:18:21,404 --> 00:18:23,711
but it jammed in the chamber.
286
00:18:23,841 --> 00:18:29,282
After that, Big Ronnie
got religion in a big way.
287
00:18:29,412 --> 00:18:31,588
He felt it was a miracle.
288
00:18:31,719 --> 00:18:33,590
His life had been spared.
289
00:19:06,623 --> 00:19:09,757
My mother and me, we
were very, very close.
290
00:19:09,887 --> 00:19:12,499
Me and my two sisters,
we got along excellently.
291
00:19:12,629 --> 00:19:15,328
My two younger
brothers, Marc and John,
292
00:19:15,458 --> 00:19:17,199
we were very close,
too, you know.
293
00:19:17,330 --> 00:19:18,461
We used to go fishing.
294
00:19:18,592 --> 00:19:20,724
We were really a close
family, you know?
295
00:19:22,987 --> 00:19:25,468
It's a shame what happened,
but it happened, you know?
296
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:31,257
Ronnie... Butch...
297
00:19:31,387 --> 00:19:34,869
He was crazy man.
298
00:19:34,999 --> 00:19:39,308
Dawn would tell me from time
to time about his drugs,
299
00:19:39,439 --> 00:19:42,485
about his
over-excessive drinking.
300
00:19:42,616 --> 00:19:45,314
She would witness,
you know, the fights
301
00:19:45,445 --> 00:19:47,447
between her father and Ronnie.
302
00:19:48,535 --> 00:19:51,494
I never saw him work
hard a day in his life.
303
00:19:51,625 --> 00:19:53,670
He was just living off the folks
304
00:19:53,801 --> 00:19:55,585
and the grandparents.
305
00:19:56,891 --> 00:19:59,372
It was well known
that Michael Brigante,
306
00:19:59,502 --> 00:20:02,244
the grandfather, bought
the house for them.
307
00:20:02,375 --> 00:20:04,638
But Dawn was very
private about it.
308
00:20:06,074 --> 00:20:08,381
The DeFeos were involved
in mob activity,
309
00:20:08,511 --> 00:20:09,991
but it was... you know,
310
00:20:10,121 --> 00:20:11,401
you didn't really talk about it.
311
00:20:11,471 --> 00:20:13,168
They were very guarded.
312
00:20:13,299 --> 00:20:14,691
That's not something
you play with.
313
00:20:14,822 --> 00:20:16,693
I don't wanna know nothing.
314
00:20:16,824 --> 00:20:18,695
The least you know,
the better off you are.
315
00:20:34,668 --> 00:20:36,322
Today, police combed the DeFeos'
316
00:20:36,452 --> 00:20:37,852
handsome three-story
house for clues
317
00:20:37,932 --> 00:20:40,326
while divers explored the
backyard swimming pool
318
00:20:40,456 --> 00:20:42,545
for the still unfound
murder weapon.
319
00:20:42,676 --> 00:20:45,374
Police have been
questioning the son, Ronald.
320
00:20:45,505 --> 00:20:47,025
Investigators say,
without explanation,
321
00:20:47,115 --> 00:20:49,291
that they now feel young
DeFeo was in the house
322
00:20:49,422 --> 00:20:50,814
at the time of the murders.
323
00:20:52,860 --> 00:20:54,383
I was called in the next morning
324
00:20:54,514 --> 00:20:56,864
to interview Ronald DeFeo.
325
00:20:58,561 --> 00:21:00,563
He continued to
change his story.
326
00:21:01,825 --> 00:21:04,480
At that time, I had
investigated about 50
327
00:21:04,611 --> 00:21:08,397
other murder cases, and
in talking to DeFeo,
328
00:21:08,528 --> 00:21:10,660
it was obvious that
he was deceiving us.
329
00:21:14,621 --> 00:21:15,883
I got high. I used heroin.
330
00:21:16,013 --> 00:21:17,624
I was using a lot
of heroin back then.
331
00:21:17,754 --> 00:21:20,322
I was getting blackouts
but didn't realize it.
332
00:21:21,584 --> 00:21:23,369
I went upstairs,
and what happened...
333
00:21:23,499 --> 00:21:25,371
It was like a nightmare.
334
00:21:29,636 --> 00:21:31,701
I'm looking at my mother and
father dead, and my sister.
335
00:21:31,725 --> 00:21:33,379
I said, "My God."
I got scared.
336
00:21:33,509 --> 00:21:35,337
I ran out of the house,
jumped in my car,
337
00:21:35,468 --> 00:21:36,575
ran down the street,
got my friends,
338
00:21:36,599 --> 00:21:37,861
and came back to the house.
339
00:21:37,992 --> 00:21:40,560
They all went in the
house. I stood outside it.
340
00:21:55,705 --> 00:21:58,317
As a suspect,
initially he denied
341
00:21:58,447 --> 00:21:59,883
any involvement in the case.
342
00:22:00,014 --> 00:22:01,798
But as we continued
to talk to him,
343
00:22:01,929 --> 00:22:05,628
he displayed angry
feelings toward his parents
344
00:22:05,759 --> 00:22:08,936
and toward his family
and his family situation.
345
00:22:09,066 --> 00:22:11,982
He told us that when he
saw his brother get shot,
346
00:22:12,113 --> 00:22:13,810
he could see the leg twitching.
347
00:22:13,941 --> 00:22:15,397
And it was at that
point that we realized
348
00:22:15,421 --> 00:22:18,380
that he was definitely
at the scene of the crime
349
00:22:18,511 --> 00:22:19,947
and finally did admit
350
00:22:20,077 --> 00:22:22,732
that he hated his
mother and father.
351
00:22:22,863 --> 00:22:25,474
In fact, when we started
to interrogate him,
352
00:22:25,605 --> 00:22:27,563
he told us that he
had thrown the gun
353
00:22:27,694 --> 00:22:29,435
in the Great South Bay.
354
00:22:30,958 --> 00:22:33,308
And with the assistance
of the Marine Division,
355
00:22:33,439 --> 00:22:35,049
they recovered
the murder weapon,
356
00:22:35,179 --> 00:22:36,920
a 0.35 caliber Marlin.
357
00:22:46,713 --> 00:22:49,672
And he also told us he
buried some bloody clothing
358
00:22:49,803 --> 00:22:52,893
in a street sewer in Queens
County in New York City,
359
00:22:53,023 --> 00:22:55,809
that only the killer would
have known where it was.
360
00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:05,427
We recovered that
bloody evidence.
361
00:23:10,867 --> 00:23:15,045
Eventually, he admitted to
killing his two brothers,
362
00:23:15,176 --> 00:23:16,873
two sisters, and his parents.
363
00:23:17,004 --> 00:23:18,701
Police in Suffolk
County, New York,
364
00:23:18,832 --> 00:23:21,704
have charged 23-year-old
Ronald DeFeo Jr.
365
00:23:21,835 --> 00:23:24,490
With the execution-style
murders of his parents,
366
00:23:24,620 --> 00:23:26,056
two brothers, and two sisters.
367
00:23:26,187 --> 00:23:27,928
The bodies were
discovered Wednesday night
368
00:23:28,058 --> 00:23:29,973
at the family home in
Amityville, Long Island.
369
00:23:30,104 --> 00:23:32,541
I remember seeing
it in the newspaper
370
00:23:32,672 --> 00:23:33,542
that he was charged.
371
00:23:33,673 --> 00:23:34,891
I wasn't surprised.
372
00:23:35,022 --> 00:23:36,023
I didn't believe it.
373
00:23:36,153 --> 00:23:37,894
I mean, two weeks before that,
374
00:23:38,025 --> 00:23:40,506
he was telling me how proud
he was of his younger brother
375
00:23:40,636 --> 00:23:42,986
making the Massapequa
Mustangs football team.
376
00:23:43,117 --> 00:23:45,032
And then you go
shoot him in his back
377
00:23:45,162 --> 00:23:46,322
while he's sleeping in a bed?
378
00:23:48,296 --> 00:23:50,429
It just seemed impossible.
379
00:23:56,173 --> 00:23:58,741
Why would Ronnie
confess to that?
380
00:23:58,872 --> 00:24:01,135
There's only a couple
possibilities in your mind...
381
00:24:01,265 --> 00:24:03,572
That he's scared to death,
382
00:24:03,703 --> 00:24:05,792
or the cops beat it out of him,
383
00:24:07,533 --> 00:24:09,709
or he was threatened.
384
00:24:12,015 --> 00:24:14,540
That's the only three
I can come up with.
385
00:24:19,327 --> 00:24:21,677
I was really, uh...
386
00:24:21,808 --> 00:24:25,594
Really, really out of
it, mentally out of it.
387
00:24:25,725 --> 00:24:26,919
I remember the
lever on the rifle.
388
00:24:26,943 --> 00:24:28,336
I hit the lever on the rifle.
389
00:24:28,467 --> 00:24:29,966
A live round of ammunition
jumped out of the rifle...
390
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:31,948
You know, ejected
from the rifle.
391
00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:36,083
And when it ejected, you
know, another one went in.
392
00:24:36,213 --> 00:24:38,781
I shot her... I thought I
had shot her in the neck,
393
00:24:38,912 --> 00:24:41,523
but I had shot her in the head.
394
00:24:41,654 --> 00:24:43,327
And then when I realized
what I did, you know,
395
00:24:43,351 --> 00:24:44,787
I said, "My God," you know?
396
00:24:44,918 --> 00:24:46,223
I mean, it happened so fast.
397
00:24:46,354 --> 00:24:47,703
I never even knew what I did.
398
00:25:03,980 --> 00:25:05,721
One major question
about this crime
399
00:25:05,852 --> 00:25:07,244
which still hasn't
been answered:
400
00:25:07,375 --> 00:25:08,811
the question of motive.
401
00:25:08,942 --> 00:25:10,987
It's reported that
Ronald DeFeo Jr. stood
402
00:25:11,118 --> 00:25:13,512
to gain about $200,000
in life insurance
403
00:25:13,642 --> 00:25:15,078
from the death of his family.
404
00:25:15,209 --> 00:25:17,907
Police say they're not ruling
that out as a possibility.
405
00:25:18,038 --> 00:25:19,692
No doubt, it's one
of the questions
406
00:25:19,822 --> 00:25:21,911
which will be considered by
the grand jury this week.
407
00:25:22,042 --> 00:25:25,654
In Amityville, Long Island,
Phil Barno, News Center 4.
408
00:25:27,395 --> 00:25:31,834
Michael Brigante Sr.,
Ronnie's maternal grandfather,
409
00:25:31,965 --> 00:25:36,709
was a very emotional-type man,
410
00:25:36,839 --> 00:25:39,668
and the Brooklyn DA's
office was investigating
411
00:25:39,799 --> 00:25:44,325
the suspected ties
to Joe Colombo
412
00:25:44,455 --> 00:25:46,762
that the Brigante family had.
413
00:25:46,893 --> 00:25:50,157
They were being bugged.
414
00:25:50,287 --> 00:25:51,593
There were tapes.
415
00:25:51,724 --> 00:25:52,899
What you heard on the tapes
416
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:56,598
was Michael Brigante Sr. saying,
417
00:25:56,729 --> 00:25:57,729
"What are we gonna do?"
418
00:25:57,773 --> 00:25:59,340
"If that kid gets off,
419
00:25:59,470 --> 00:26:02,038
if he's acquitted,
we got problems."
420
00:26:02,169 --> 00:26:05,694
"He knows too much
about what's going on
421
00:26:05,825 --> 00:26:07,566
in our business."
422
00:26:07,696 --> 00:26:10,046
After the verdict,
at the trials,
423
00:26:10,177 --> 00:26:12,788
he embraced his
grandson, kissed him,
424
00:26:12,919 --> 00:26:14,747
spoke to him in
Italian and English.
425
00:26:16,749 --> 00:26:18,968
I think this was more a case of,
426
00:26:19,099 --> 00:26:22,885
keep your friends close
and your enemies closer.
427
00:26:23,016 --> 00:26:25,061
On your left, you
have the DeFeo house,
428
00:26:25,192 --> 00:26:29,283
where the six murders took
place in November '74.
429
00:26:29,413 --> 00:26:31,198
And of course, as
you know, I got
430
00:26:31,328 --> 00:26:32,939
involved in this murder case.
431
00:26:33,069 --> 00:26:35,245
My father was Herman Henry Race.
432
00:26:35,376 --> 00:26:41,904
He became a police officer,
detective, sergeant.
433
00:26:42,035 --> 00:26:45,038
Did you ever hear the
expression "crime pays"?
434
00:26:45,168 --> 00:26:46,648
Pays very well.
435
00:26:48,041 --> 00:26:50,870
So he became a
private investigator,
436
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,306
did a lot of criminal work.
437
00:26:52,436 --> 00:26:54,656
One of the cases he
got involved with
438
00:26:54,787 --> 00:26:56,832
was with the Colombo family.
439
00:26:56,963 --> 00:27:01,228
Michael Brigante, who is
the grandfather, the father
440
00:27:01,358 --> 00:27:03,404
of the deceased Louise DeFeo,
441
00:27:03,534 --> 00:27:07,887
personally asked me to conduct
an investigation to determine
442
00:27:08,017 --> 00:27:11,107
what really took place on
the night of the murders.
443
00:27:11,238 --> 00:27:12,935
"Where were you?"
444
00:27:13,066 --> 00:27:14,937
"What's the actual
cause of this?"
445
00:27:15,068 --> 00:27:18,637
"See... if you can, find
out what the motive was."
446
00:27:21,117 --> 00:27:24,207
And that's what Mike
Brigante was trying to do.
447
00:27:24,338 --> 00:27:26,645
One person killing
your entire family?
448
00:27:27,863 --> 00:27:28,995
It wasn't normal.
449
00:27:31,084 --> 00:27:32,868
There's a time frame involved.
450
00:27:32,999 --> 00:27:35,262
Did he have clarity
in what he was doing?
451
00:27:35,392 --> 00:27:36,959
I think he did.
452
00:27:37,090 --> 00:27:38,613
He went from room to room
453
00:27:38,744 --> 00:27:41,137
and executed his entire family.
454
00:27:41,268 --> 00:27:43,270
Here, you have people spread
out in different rooms
455
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,272
on different floors.
456
00:27:45,402 --> 00:27:47,013
It's not one person.
457
00:27:47,143 --> 00:27:49,711
It's impossible to do
this all by yourself.
458
00:27:51,104 --> 00:27:52,758
I mean, even with a
split personality,
459
00:27:52,888 --> 00:27:54,673
you can't be on two
different floors.
460
00:27:56,413 --> 00:27:58,764
Someone had to help him.
461
00:27:58,894 --> 00:28:00,766
The question is, is who?
462
00:28:03,420 --> 00:28:05,220
You're talking about the
crime of the century,
463
00:28:05,292 --> 00:28:06,292
as far as I'm concerned.
464
00:28:08,382 --> 00:28:11,080
I have no explanation why Ronnie
465
00:28:11,211 --> 00:28:13,779
killed his whole family,
if at all he did.
466
00:28:15,084 --> 00:28:18,348
How a boy who loved his mother,
467
00:28:18,479 --> 00:28:22,135
who adored and idolized
his two younger brothers,
468
00:28:22,265 --> 00:28:24,877
could possibly do such
a thing, you know,
469
00:28:25,007 --> 00:28:27,967
to me, it was an
act of insanity.
470
00:28:37,498 --> 00:28:39,369
I'm Ellen Stark,
and I'm the daughter
471
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:41,807
of Judge Thomas Stark,
who was the judge
472
00:28:41,937 --> 00:28:44,331
in the DeFeo murder trial.
473
00:28:44,461 --> 00:28:46,115
It just really
caught my attention
474
00:28:46,246 --> 00:28:49,423
when he talked about the
manner of people being killed.
475
00:28:49,553 --> 00:28:53,993
I do remember him talking about
DeFeo going from room to room
476
00:28:54,123 --> 00:28:55,298
and shooting everybody.
477
00:28:55,429 --> 00:28:57,344
I mean, that sort of
stuck in my memory.
478
00:28:58,214 --> 00:29:01,217
That was just horrifying,
that an entire family
479
00:29:01,348 --> 00:29:03,785
had been murdered.
480
00:29:06,179 --> 00:29:10,226
The DeFeo trial took
place in the fall of 1975.
481
00:29:10,357 --> 00:29:13,142
My father thought it
was a strong legal team
482
00:29:13,273 --> 00:29:14,273
on both sides.
483
00:29:15,579 --> 00:29:17,190
William Weber was
484
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,409
a very accomplished
defense lawyer,
485
00:29:19,540 --> 00:29:21,977
and Gerry Sullivan was an
accomplished prosecutor,
486
00:29:22,108 --> 00:29:24,110
so I think my father had
respect for both lawyers.
487
00:29:25,459 --> 00:29:29,332
Ronnie DeFeo, in my
view, is evil incarnate.
488
00:29:29,463 --> 00:29:30,551
Um...
489
00:29:30,681 --> 00:29:32,074
prosecuted cases for ten years,
490
00:29:32,205 --> 00:29:34,207
and many murderers among them.
491
00:29:34,337 --> 00:29:36,252
There has never been,
in my experience,
492
00:29:36,383 --> 00:29:38,428
and from what I know,
493
00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:41,562
certainly in the
metropolitan New York area,
494
00:29:41,692 --> 00:29:43,782
the history of crime
in recent years,
495
00:29:43,912 --> 00:29:45,827
there has never been
anybody to achieve
496
00:29:45,958 --> 00:29:47,478
the dimensions of
evil as Ronnie DeFeo.
497
00:29:47,568 --> 00:29:51,398
You're talking about eight
expertly-placed bullets
498
00:29:51,528 --> 00:29:54,749
by an individual who has been
described by an optometrist
499
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,056
as being almost legally blind.
500
00:29:57,186 --> 00:29:59,232
About halfway through
his direct examination
501
00:29:59,362 --> 00:30:02,104
his attorney,
Mr. Weber, asked him
502
00:30:02,235 --> 00:30:05,368
point blank, "Ronnie, did
you kill your father?"
503
00:30:05,499 --> 00:30:08,981
And Ronnie answered, "Yes,
sir, I killed them all."
504
00:30:09,111 --> 00:30:11,461
"And I killed them before
they could kill me."
505
00:30:19,556 --> 00:30:24,126
There were two psychiatrists,
both of whom examined DeFeo.
506
00:30:24,257 --> 00:30:27,042
One was for the prosecution,
one was for the defense,
507
00:30:27,173 --> 00:30:30,132
and both psychiatrists
actually testified
508
00:30:30,263 --> 00:30:32,395
that they believed
that Ronald DeFeo
509
00:30:32,526 --> 00:30:34,310
had shot his entire family.
510
00:30:34,441 --> 00:30:37,966
It was just a question of
the psychiatrists' opinions
511
00:30:38,097 --> 00:30:41,317
on to what degree he
understood what he was doing.
512
00:30:41,448 --> 00:30:45,017
The psychiatrist who
testified for the prosecution
513
00:30:45,147 --> 00:30:47,367
was a man named
Dr. Harold Zolan,
514
00:30:47,497 --> 00:30:52,502
and he argued that DeFeo had
an antisocial personality,
515
00:30:52,633 --> 00:30:56,550
and that the fact that he
collected evidence afterwards
516
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,075
and went and threw it in
a storm drain in Brooklyn
517
00:31:00,206 --> 00:31:02,382
was evidence that he
knew perfectly well
518
00:31:02,512 --> 00:31:04,123
what he was doing.
519
00:31:04,253 --> 00:31:07,996
Ronald DeFeo's
psychiatrist, Dr. Schwartz,
520
00:31:08,127 --> 00:31:10,520
argued that he was...
521
00:31:10,651 --> 00:31:13,132
I think he called it
paranoid psychosis.
522
00:31:13,262 --> 00:31:16,570
His argument was that
the murder was actually
523
00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:18,964
triggered by a movie
524
00:31:19,094 --> 00:31:21,227
that Ronald DeFeo was
watching that night,
525
00:31:21,357 --> 00:31:23,490
an old World War II
movie called Castle Keep.
526
00:31:47,209 --> 00:31:50,604
I believe that he was
so psychotic at the time
527
00:31:50,734 --> 00:31:54,390
of the murders that he was
not criminally responsible.
528
00:31:54,521 --> 00:31:59,395
This is a young man
who, from all we know,
529
00:31:59,526 --> 00:32:02,616
never really learned
to control his emotions
530
00:32:02,746 --> 00:32:04,226
in a reasonable way.
531
00:32:04,357 --> 00:32:07,621
He was filled with
murderous thoughts
532
00:32:07,751 --> 00:32:11,233
and paranoid ideas that
he was meant to be killed.
533
00:32:11,364 --> 00:32:12,644
And there came a
time in his life
534
00:32:12,713 --> 00:32:16,412
when he felt that he
had to kill others,
535
00:32:16,543 --> 00:32:18,545
lest he be killed.
536
00:32:18,675 --> 00:32:20,373
He apparently, right
from the beginning,
537
00:32:20,503 --> 00:32:25,073
decided to employ an
insanity defense upon trial.
538
00:32:25,204 --> 00:32:27,380
And he started a
concerted action
539
00:32:27,510 --> 00:32:32,080
in the jail to appear
that he was insane
540
00:32:32,211 --> 00:32:35,214
and insisted that the
correction officers
541
00:32:35,344 --> 00:32:38,391
write down in the log his
allegedly insane conduct.
542
00:32:41,350 --> 00:32:43,570
Of course, within 15
minutes, they came in
543
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:47,139
and rendered their six
guilty as charged verdicts.
544
00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:52,448
In your mind, you're trying
to unwind this puzzle.
545
00:32:52,579 --> 00:32:55,103
It didn't make sense. A lot
of it didn't make sense.
546
00:33:00,195 --> 00:33:02,284
How does all these people sleep,
547
00:33:03,416 --> 00:33:08,203
one person shot and murdered,
and no one wakes up?
548
00:33:08,334 --> 00:33:10,553
I used to go deer hunting
with that same rifle.
549
00:33:10,684 --> 00:33:13,165
Not the same
rifle... that rifle.
550
00:33:14,427 --> 00:33:15,427
It's loud.
551
00:33:15,471 --> 00:33:18,257
And I believe it only holds six.
552
00:33:19,823 --> 00:33:24,132
So if you fire more than
six, you, as the suspect,
553
00:33:24,263 --> 00:33:26,047
have to reload it.
554
00:33:30,138 --> 00:33:33,185
On the side is where you
put the cartridge in,
555
00:33:33,315 --> 00:33:35,317
and it goes into this tube.
556
00:33:35,448 --> 00:33:38,320
So when you pull the lever down,
557
00:33:38,451 --> 00:33:40,714
it ejects the shell casing.
558
00:33:40,844 --> 00:33:43,064
You close the lever
and raise it up.
559
00:33:43,195 --> 00:33:45,066
Another round goes
into the chamber.
560
00:33:52,769 --> 00:33:54,554
It's a lever action.
561
00:33:54,684 --> 00:33:56,164
It's not like a
pistol, where you can
562
00:33:56,295 --> 00:33:57,774
just keep pulling the trigger.
563
00:33:57,905 --> 00:34:00,690
You're shooting that
rifle inside of a house.
564
00:34:00,821 --> 00:34:03,606
The echo effect is tremendous.
565
00:34:05,478 --> 00:34:06,479
No one wakes up.
566
00:34:08,350 --> 00:34:10,570
So what does that tell you?
567
00:34:10,700 --> 00:34:12,485
It wasn't Ron Jr. by himself.
568
00:34:14,748 --> 00:34:16,489
So you're taking time.
569
00:34:16,619 --> 00:34:19,361
It's almost, and I say
almost, inconceivable
570
00:34:19,492 --> 00:34:22,408
that the sounds
wouldn't wake somebody.
571
00:34:22,538 --> 00:34:27,108
However, if somebody was
there to pacify the children
572
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,303
and say, "Go back to sleep"...
573
00:34:28,327 --> 00:34:30,155
"Lie down on your stomach."
574
00:34:30,285 --> 00:34:31,525
"I don't want to
see your face."
575
00:34:34,811 --> 00:34:37,336
It probably happened that way,
that they did go back to sleep
576
00:34:37,466 --> 00:34:39,555
until they, too,
met their demise.
577
00:34:41,340 --> 00:34:44,212
Proving it is a whole
different ball game.
578
00:34:44,343 --> 00:34:47,476
You can't, 'cause it
was never brought up.
579
00:34:47,607 --> 00:34:50,218
Once they made the
arrest, the case was over.
580
00:35:02,491 --> 00:35:04,102
Dr. Daniel Schwartz,
581
00:35:04,232 --> 00:35:06,669
what do you feel is
the underlying cause
582
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,411
that made DeFeo
commit these crimes?
583
00:35:09,542 --> 00:35:12,110
Uh, he grew up as a violent man
584
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:13,894
in a house of violence.
585
00:35:14,024 --> 00:35:17,419
Or do you think he
might be the recipient
586
00:35:17,550 --> 00:35:20,727
of some extraordinary
influences in the house?
587
00:35:20,857 --> 00:35:22,424
I don't know.
588
00:35:22,555 --> 00:35:24,557
I have an open mind
about things like this.
589
00:35:24,687 --> 00:35:25,688
I just don't know.
590
00:35:25,819 --> 00:35:27,560
The questions in the DeFeo case
591
00:35:27,690 --> 00:35:30,345
need more than
conventional explanations.
592
00:35:30,476 --> 00:35:33,305
Perhaps Ronnie may have
acted under the influence
593
00:35:33,435 --> 00:35:37,091
of unknown forces beyond his
control or understanding.
594
00:35:37,222 --> 00:35:39,702
Six people died on Ocean Avenue.
595
00:35:39,833 --> 00:35:43,097
Was Ronnie, in fact,
the seventh victim?
596
00:35:48,972 --> 00:35:50,670
My name is Hans Holzer.
597
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,411
I'm a parapsychologist,
598
00:35:52,541 --> 00:35:55,501
but most people know
me as the Ghost Hunter.
599
00:35:55,631 --> 00:35:59,200
And I'm about to take you along
on a tour of haunted places,
600
00:35:59,331 --> 00:36:02,247
so get set to come
along on my ghost hunt.
601
00:36:02,377 --> 00:36:04,814
And remember, friends,
this isn't fiction.
602
00:36:04,945 --> 00:36:09,471
What you're about to see
and hear is the real thing.
603
00:36:11,821 --> 00:36:13,649
What did you see?
604
00:36:13,780 --> 00:36:16,348
I saw a woman
standing in the aisle.
605
00:36:16,478 --> 00:36:20,613
So I said to her, "Wait,
lady, turn the lights on."
606
00:36:20,743 --> 00:36:22,441
"You'll fall."
607
00:36:22,571 --> 00:36:26,662
And uh, I turned away and was
going to the light switch.
608
00:36:26,793 --> 00:36:29,187
And when I turned to
look at her again,
609
00:36:29,317 --> 00:36:31,624
she disappeared
right into thin air.
610
00:36:31,754 --> 00:36:34,627
I understand you've also
heard some strange noises.
611
00:36:36,585 --> 00:36:37,717
My father,
612
00:36:37,847 --> 00:36:39,936
famed ghost hunter
Dr. Hans Holzer,
613
00:36:40,067 --> 00:36:42,243
was born in Vienna, Austria.
614
00:36:42,374 --> 00:36:44,506
He became a skeptic
journalist on his own.
615
00:36:44,637 --> 00:36:48,336
I think that we have to
relieve somebody here.
616
00:36:48,467 --> 00:36:50,208
And this is something
from the past?
617
00:36:50,338 --> 00:36:51,513
Oh, yes. Well past.
618
00:36:51,644 --> 00:36:54,168
I mean, not yesterday
or... Or this century.
619
00:36:54,299 --> 00:36:55,299
- Yes, yes.
- Going back.
620
00:36:55,387 --> 00:36:56,997
- Another century.
- Another century.
621
00:36:57,127 --> 00:36:58,496
And you feel it is
still lingering on
622
00:36:58,520 --> 00:36:59,652
here in the atmosphere?
623
00:36:59,782 --> 00:37:01,871
He started to report
624
00:37:02,002 --> 00:37:04,178
on people's experiences
625
00:37:04,309 --> 00:37:06,006
of odd occurrences
and happenings.
626
00:37:06,136 --> 00:37:08,356
The first book he wrote was
called The Ghost Hunter.
627
00:37:09,575 --> 00:37:12,404
When that book became
very successful,
628
00:37:12,534 --> 00:37:14,928
that really was the
pinnacle moment for him,
629
00:37:15,058 --> 00:37:16,886
and that became the work.
630
00:37:17,017 --> 00:37:19,498
He published over 145 titles.
631
00:37:28,855 --> 00:37:33,425
Have you any tangible proof
of having seen a ghost?
632
00:37:33,555 --> 00:37:36,341
I've developed a
photography technique
633
00:37:36,471 --> 00:37:38,517
to take photographs
in haunted houses.
634
00:37:38,647 --> 00:37:40,258
- You got 'em?
- Oh, I sure have 'em.
635
00:37:40,388 --> 00:37:42,105
But I must tell you, my
film has been examined
636
00:37:42,129 --> 00:37:43,565
before and after by experts,
637
00:37:43,696 --> 00:37:46,568
and no artificial
light sources are used.
638
00:37:46,699 --> 00:37:47,779
Where is the ghost, though?
639
00:37:47,874 --> 00:37:49,267
On the left side,
and you can see
640
00:37:49,397 --> 00:37:50,757
what looks like
transparent figures
641
00:37:50,833 --> 00:37:52,357
of hooded monks.
642
00:37:53,706 --> 00:37:55,490
Ooh, boy.
643
00:37:55,621 --> 00:37:56,859
I really think this is a subject
644
00:37:56,883 --> 00:37:59,538
that should not
be made light of.
645
00:37:59,668 --> 00:38:02,367
My father was a
very serious man.
646
00:38:03,716 --> 00:38:07,023
What happens with
spirit photography,
647
00:38:07,154 --> 00:38:10,375
something is entering your frame
648
00:38:10,505 --> 00:38:12,333
and clogging it up.
649
00:38:12,464 --> 00:38:13,784
What is strange
about this picture
650
00:38:13,900 --> 00:38:16,294
is that there seems to
be a triple exposure
651
00:38:16,424 --> 00:38:17,773
when only one was made by me.
652
00:38:17,904 --> 00:38:20,515
So we know when
there's a murder,
653
00:38:20,646 --> 00:38:22,952
a trapped ghost will
step inside your frame.
654
00:38:23,083 --> 00:38:24,693
For my father, it was important
655
00:38:24,824 --> 00:38:26,826
because there's a
science to everything.
656
00:38:29,611 --> 00:38:32,571
Part of our condition
as human beings
657
00:38:32,701 --> 00:38:35,356
is that there are
anomalous experiences,
658
00:38:35,487 --> 00:38:37,029
whether we want to
acknowledge them or not.
659
00:38:37,053 --> 00:38:39,795
They just keep on happening.
660
00:38:40,666 --> 00:38:43,843
And what we see in the '70s,
paranormal investigators,
661
00:38:43,973 --> 00:38:46,628
they all have good technology,
they're recording things.
662
00:38:46,759 --> 00:38:51,851
I was... I was laughing at
a clown in a big red suit.
663
00:38:51,981 --> 00:38:54,984
Uh, he was making me laugh.
664
00:38:55,115 --> 00:38:56,812
He was very jolly.
665
00:38:56,943 --> 00:39:00,642
And uh, he was holding these
three big, red balloons.
666
00:39:00,773 --> 00:39:02,949
They approach it as
a kind of science,
667
00:39:03,079 --> 00:39:05,517
because this idea that you
could connect with something
668
00:39:05,647 --> 00:39:06,953
that would give you messages,
669
00:39:07,083 --> 00:39:10,043
that's pretty fantastical
for a lot of people.
670
00:39:10,173 --> 00:39:13,568
So then they turn to science
to prove the paranormal.
671
00:39:13,699 --> 00:39:15,483
Is it truth or is it a hoax?
672
00:39:15,614 --> 00:39:17,616
Even though it's very
powerful just as a story,
673
00:39:17,746 --> 00:39:21,663
it has to be more than
that, more than just myth.
674
00:39:22,969 --> 00:39:25,711
One might suppose that
in this modern age
675
00:39:25,841 --> 00:39:28,844
dominated by the remarkable
accomplishments of science,
676
00:39:28,975 --> 00:39:31,630
the ancient world of the
occult would be dying out.
677
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,458
Instead, many occult
beliefs and practices
678
00:39:33,588 --> 00:39:34,894
seem to be thriving.
679
00:39:35,024 --> 00:39:37,113
The Committee for the
Scientific Investigation
680
00:39:37,244 --> 00:39:39,159
of Claims of the Paranormal.
681
00:39:39,289 --> 00:39:42,597
It is made up of scientists,
writers, even magicians,
682
00:39:42,728 --> 00:39:44,904
who are worried that too
many people these days
683
00:39:45,034 --> 00:39:46,819
are believing in
too many things.
684
00:39:46,949 --> 00:39:49,561
So if the doorbell rings in
the middle of the night tonight
685
00:39:49,691 --> 00:39:51,824
and a ghost is standing
there, simply refer him
686
00:39:51,954 --> 00:39:54,522
to the local paranormal
chapter and go back to bed.
687
00:39:59,614 --> 00:40:02,051
When I think about the
Amityville murders,
688
00:40:02,182 --> 00:40:04,532
what was so odd about this case
689
00:40:04,663 --> 00:40:07,013
was that nobody heard
the guns go off.
690
00:40:08,841 --> 00:40:10,886
If you go out to Long
Island, you see the houses,
691
00:40:11,017 --> 00:40:12,627
they're kinda close
to each other,
692
00:40:12,758 --> 00:40:14,499
especially on that street.
693
00:40:16,718 --> 00:40:18,503
All the shots went,
so it would have been,
694
00:40:18,633 --> 00:40:20,069
bang, bang, bang, bang, bang,
695
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,897
in the middle of the night.
696
00:40:22,028 --> 00:40:24,108
No lights go on in the houses
on either side of them.
697
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:25,553
Nobody hears anything.
698
00:40:28,164 --> 00:40:31,864
My father read about the
story in The New York Times,
699
00:40:33,735 --> 00:40:35,535
and he wanted to know
what was going on there.
700
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,047
His theory was that in
a moment of possession,
701
00:40:41,177 --> 00:40:44,877
no sound will travel beyond
the walls in that house.
702
00:41:30,270 --> 00:41:34,709
He was given access not once
but twice to Ronald DeFeo.
703
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,756
He wanted to talk to
the murderer himself.
704
00:41:40,149 --> 00:41:43,718
I want you to relax, Ronald.
705
00:41:43,849 --> 00:41:45,590
Close your eyes and
listen to my voice
706
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:48,593
coming to you from a distance.
707
00:41:48,723 --> 00:41:50,551
I want you to go
back in time now.
708
00:41:59,168 --> 00:42:02,171
You are just 20 years old.
709
00:42:02,302 --> 00:42:05,784
Now, when you first moved
into 112 Ocean Avenue
710
00:42:05,914 --> 00:42:09,570
in Amityville, did you
feel anything at all
711
00:42:09,701 --> 00:42:11,572
about the atmosphere
in the house?
712
00:42:11,703 --> 00:42:13,922
Well, when I first
moved in, you know,
713
00:42:14,053 --> 00:42:16,751
you start hearing noises and
different things at night.
714
00:42:16,882 --> 00:42:19,188
What did you hear?
715
00:42:19,319 --> 00:42:20,905
You thought that
somebody might have been
716
00:42:20,929 --> 00:42:23,018
walking around, pipes banging.
717
00:42:23,149 --> 00:42:25,020
All these, you know,
strange noises, you know.
718
00:42:25,151 --> 00:42:28,023
Did you tell anyone about it?
719
00:42:28,154 --> 00:42:29,677
Yeah, they were up
walking around too,
720
00:42:29,808 --> 00:42:31,113
the members of my family.
721
00:42:31,244 --> 00:42:32,874
Everybody thought there
was somebody in there.
722
00:42:32,898 --> 00:42:34,092
And they didn't see
anything either?
723
00:42:34,116 --> 00:42:35,683
No.
724
00:42:35,814 --> 00:42:37,642
Once in a while
you'd hear screaming,
725
00:42:37,772 --> 00:42:39,818
but there wasn't
nobody screaming.
726
00:42:39,948 --> 00:42:42,821
Did you ever see any
object move by themselves?
727
00:42:44,039 --> 00:42:45,606
I never saw anything move,
728
00:42:45,737 --> 00:42:47,042
but there was things moved.
729
00:42:47,173 --> 00:42:49,001
Who moved them, to
this day, I don't know.
730
00:42:49,131 --> 00:42:50,872
Did your family members report
731
00:42:51,003 --> 00:42:53,179
anything unusual
to you in that way?
732
00:42:53,309 --> 00:42:55,573
I recall my mother or
somebody at one time
733
00:42:55,703 --> 00:42:57,313
said they saw something.
734
00:42:57,444 --> 00:42:59,185
She said she saw a ghost?
735
00:42:59,315 --> 00:43:01,666
No, that they felt the
devil was in the house.
736
00:43:03,450 --> 00:43:06,845
None of the neighbors
associated with them.
737
00:43:06,975 --> 00:43:10,675
They saw some crazy behavior.
738
00:43:10,805 --> 00:43:15,984
Mr. DeFeo said he had a
hotline to St. Joseph.
739
00:43:16,898 --> 00:43:21,773
The neighbors told me after,
he would run out in his shorts
740
00:43:21,903 --> 00:43:24,210
and pray in front of the statue.
741
00:43:24,340 --> 00:43:26,299
Who knows? I don't know.
742
00:43:32,522 --> 00:43:36,744
One time, we had
dinner at his house.
743
00:43:36,875 --> 00:43:41,314
Mr. DeFeo asked us
if we knew which side
744
00:43:41,444 --> 00:43:44,230
Jesus was stabbed on.
745
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,362
None of us could answer.
746
00:43:46,493 --> 00:43:48,756
And he said, well, he knows
747
00:43:48,887 --> 00:43:51,803
because he was at
the crucifixion.
748
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:10,343
Nobody was drugged.
749
00:44:10,473 --> 00:44:11,953
Nobody heard any shots.
750
00:44:12,084 --> 00:44:14,913
And to this day, all
the clever lawyers
751
00:44:15,043 --> 00:44:17,916
and all the police officers
have no answer to this,
752
00:44:18,046 --> 00:44:20,788
because they just aren't
qualified to understand it.
753
00:44:29,014 --> 00:44:31,103
My father's
experiences always were
754
00:44:31,233 --> 00:44:33,409
through the mediums
and/or psychics
755
00:44:33,540 --> 00:44:35,281
that he would work with.
756
00:44:35,411 --> 00:44:38,980
They have the ability
to see, hear, feel,
757
00:44:39,111 --> 00:44:41,853
to receive a lot of information,
758
00:44:41,983 --> 00:44:45,117
which can be very
scary at times.
759
00:44:45,247 --> 00:44:47,685
And it's handed
down by generations.
760
00:44:49,512 --> 00:44:50,775
That's the Holzer method.
761
00:44:50,905 --> 00:44:52,274
That's the combination
of the science
762
00:44:52,298 --> 00:44:54,692
and then the
otherworldly, if you will.
763
00:44:57,172 --> 00:44:59,958
Ethel Johnson-Meyers
was one of the mediums
764
00:45:00,088 --> 00:45:02,351
he liked to work with.
765
00:45:02,482 --> 00:45:04,397
She was actually
formerly an opera singer,
766
00:45:04,527 --> 00:45:06,791
very quiet and frail.
767
00:45:06,921 --> 00:45:08,662
Then her voice just
kind of, you know,
768
00:45:08,793 --> 00:45:10,033
would just drop down an octave.
769
00:45:10,142 --> 00:45:12,884
It's like a male
voice coming through.
770
00:45:13,014 --> 00:45:14,973
She's like... "I'm feeling."
771
00:45:17,018 --> 00:45:18,977
He brought Ethel to
the house in Amityville
772
00:45:19,107 --> 00:45:21,806
at 112 Ocean Avenue,
773
00:45:21,936 --> 00:45:24,809
and they started doing
a tour of the house.
774
00:45:28,073 --> 00:45:30,423
How my father described it was,
775
00:45:30,553 --> 00:45:32,730
even when they were driving
up towards the house,
776
00:45:32,860 --> 00:45:36,211
she immediately felt a
very strong presence there.
777
00:45:36,342 --> 00:45:38,823
They started to take
the Polaroid photos.
778
00:45:45,003 --> 00:45:48,354
And something is entering frame
779
00:45:48,484 --> 00:45:51,009
and clogging it up.
780
00:45:51,139 --> 00:45:53,054
There's other Polaroid shots
781
00:45:53,185 --> 00:45:55,927
where you'll see
the bullet holes.
782
00:45:56,057 --> 00:46:00,453
Around the bullet hole is what
we call, like, a halo glow,
783
00:46:00,583 --> 00:46:05,327
which is this residual energy
that's surrounding them,
784
00:46:05,458 --> 00:46:08,374
and what my father believed was,
785
00:46:08,504 --> 00:46:11,812
your spirit energy is
manifesting, showing you,
786
00:46:11,943 --> 00:46:13,379
in this moment,
we're still here.
787
00:46:13,509 --> 00:46:15,947
There's no botching
it. There's no fakery.
788
00:46:17,296 --> 00:46:19,341
It's... it's heartbreaking,
'cause we know
789
00:46:19,472 --> 00:46:21,213
what those bullets did.
790
00:46:23,084 --> 00:46:25,043
Ethel went into a trance,
791
00:46:26,087 --> 00:46:29,047
so she allows whoever
or whatever is there
792
00:46:29,177 --> 00:46:30,918
to take over her body.
793
00:46:32,137 --> 00:46:34,356
Her throat would close up
and she would be choking,
794
00:46:34,487 --> 00:46:36,445
because, you know,
the spirit was trying
795
00:46:36,576 --> 00:46:38,230
to enter her to communicate.
796
00:47:28,367 --> 00:47:30,456
My father really started to pull
797
00:47:30,586 --> 00:47:33,328
a picture of an angry man
798
00:47:33,459 --> 00:47:36,418
from the past who
had certain beliefs
799
00:47:36,549 --> 00:47:38,986
and structures that this
was their land they live on.
800
00:47:39,117 --> 00:47:40,945
That was very specific,
801
00:47:41,075 --> 00:47:43,512
because we were now
getting some information
802
00:47:43,643 --> 00:47:44,949
as to why he was there.
803
00:48:09,147 --> 00:48:10,427
Could he have
possibly influenced
804
00:48:10,539 --> 00:48:14,848
somebody like Ronald DeFeo
out of anger and spite?
805
00:48:14,979 --> 00:48:17,198
And um, my father believed so.
806
00:48:20,332 --> 00:48:23,465
The only, uh, story I've ever
heard about any Indian being
807
00:48:23,596 --> 00:48:25,946
buried in that area
was south of the house
808
00:48:26,077 --> 00:48:27,600
that you're discussing,
809
00:48:27,730 --> 00:48:30,211
and it was reporting
810
00:48:30,342 --> 00:48:31,909
that they had
discovered the skeleton
811
00:48:32,039 --> 00:48:33,649
of an Indian chief.
812
00:48:33,780 --> 00:48:36,087
Um, indicated that was a chief
813
00:48:36,217 --> 00:48:38,002
because he was in a
standing position.
814
00:48:38,132 --> 00:48:40,004
And what happened
to the skeleton?
815
00:48:40,134 --> 00:48:42,267
I don't know.
816
00:48:42,397 --> 00:48:45,357
There's a lot to be said
about bad happenings on land.
817
00:48:45,487 --> 00:48:49,100
So we have a home or a barn
and things keep happening,
818
00:48:49,230 --> 00:48:50,729
somebody keeps dying,
or there's a murder,
819
00:48:50,753 --> 00:48:52,277
or death is all around us.
820
00:48:52,407 --> 00:48:54,235
There's something
negative going on there.
821
00:48:54,366 --> 00:48:57,238
And I refer to it like
a vortex or a portal
822
00:48:57,369 --> 00:48:59,980
of negative energies that
are coming in and out
823
00:49:00,111 --> 00:49:01,547
and wreaking havoc in that area.
824
00:49:17,650 --> 00:49:19,434
I discovered around the
turn of the century,
825
00:49:19,565 --> 00:49:23,438
around 1900, a skeleton of
an Indian chief on a horse
826
00:49:23,569 --> 00:49:27,268
had partially been exposed
during a rainstorm.
827
00:49:27,399 --> 00:49:31,055
And the skeleton's head
had been broken off
828
00:49:31,185 --> 00:49:33,144
by a youngster who then
played football with it,
829
00:49:33,274 --> 00:49:36,712
and that is when all
the trouble started.
830
00:49:36,843 --> 00:49:39,977
He felt that the environment
831
00:49:40,107 --> 00:49:43,023
that Ronnie DeFeo
was growing up in,
832
00:49:43,154 --> 00:49:44,285
they move into this house,
833
00:49:44,416 --> 00:49:46,548
the abuse that was going on,
834
00:49:46,679 --> 00:49:50,030
it made them prime
suspects to be taken over
835
00:49:50,161 --> 00:49:53,033
by this angry Indian chief.
836
00:49:56,123 --> 00:49:59,170
The area developed
over the years.
837
00:49:59,300 --> 00:50:01,694
You know, 100 years
later, it's a booming
838
00:50:01,824 --> 00:50:03,565
boating, fishing town.
839
00:50:07,700 --> 00:50:09,397
You know, if you put
in the negative energy
840
00:50:09,528 --> 00:50:12,748
of such a dysfunctional family
like the DeFeos, for instance,
841
00:50:12,879 --> 00:50:14,315
yes, these things can happen.
842
00:50:14,446 --> 00:50:17,057
But it's from an... Almost
like an ancient energy,
843
00:50:17,188 --> 00:50:18,450
if you will.
844
00:50:18,580 --> 00:50:20,321
Like an ancient evil.
845
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,028
To me, I look at it
more like a murder.
846
00:50:31,158 --> 00:50:33,117
And then the aftermath is
847
00:50:33,247 --> 00:50:34,727
the lingering energies
that were there
848
00:50:34,857 --> 00:50:37,512
and whoever stayed around,
849
00:50:39,210 --> 00:50:40,428
unfortunately.
850
00:50:43,388 --> 00:50:45,825
There was a moment
there in the '70s,
851
00:50:45,955 --> 00:50:48,828
early to mid '70s, where
there was an awareness
852
00:50:48,958 --> 00:50:50,612
of Native American culture.
853
00:50:52,353 --> 00:50:54,529
I remember when a group
of Indigenous people went
854
00:50:54,660 --> 00:50:57,663
and they occupied Alcatraz
claiming, you know,
855
00:50:57,793 --> 00:50:58,793
"This is our territory."
856
00:50:58,838 --> 00:51:00,622
No, we're here to stay.
857
00:51:00,753 --> 00:51:02,581
We're, uh... We're
with that conviction.
858
00:51:02,711 --> 00:51:03,973
We're gonna stick with it.
859
00:51:04,104 --> 00:51:06,280
And there was, like, this
moment of acknowledging
860
00:51:06,411 --> 00:51:08,717
what had happened to
the Indigenous people,
861
00:51:08,848 --> 00:51:10,197
particularly on Long Island.
862
00:51:12,591 --> 00:51:15,550
They were killed off,
run off the land.
863
00:51:17,683 --> 00:51:20,338
All of Long Island is
an Indian burial ground.
864
00:51:22,383 --> 00:51:24,690
But I just felt that any
of this sort of awareness
865
00:51:24,820 --> 00:51:27,432
gave somebody the idea,
"Oh, Indian burial ground."
866
00:51:27,562 --> 00:51:29,390
"You know, that
could be a story."
867
00:51:29,521 --> 00:51:31,523
"That's creepy too,"
and that's something
868
00:51:31,653 --> 00:51:33,655
that got thrown into the
mix when they were talking
869
00:51:33,786 --> 00:51:37,659
about all the possible reasons
why the house was haunted.
870
00:51:41,837 --> 00:51:44,623
My father had some big pair
of balls, I gotta tell you.
871
00:51:44,753 --> 00:51:46,581
He didn't care. He
said what he said
872
00:51:46,712 --> 00:51:48,690
because it was the truth,
and people don't like people
873
00:51:48,714 --> 00:51:50,194
that speak the truth.
874
00:51:50,324 --> 00:51:53,197
My husband said, "Do you
wanna buy the house?"
875
00:51:53,327 --> 00:51:57,462
A boathouse, a pool...
It was, like, $55,000.
876
00:51:57,592 --> 00:52:00,508
I said, "With all those
people murdered? No."
877
00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:04,121
I don't wanna live in that
house with those memories.
878
00:52:06,688 --> 00:52:07,820
I wouldn't wanna live there,
879
00:52:07,950 --> 00:52:09,150
you know, after what happened.
880
00:52:09,256 --> 00:52:10,475
And that was my feeling too.
881
00:52:10,605 --> 00:52:12,390
Like, who would
want to live there?
882
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:16,307
And then kinda you forgot
about it until we heard the...
883
00:52:16,437 --> 00:52:20,615
The story about the...
The Lutz family moving in.
884
00:52:20,746 --> 00:52:26,317
Ronnie had just been
convicted when the story broke
885
00:52:26,447 --> 00:52:28,493
with George and Kathy Lutz
886
00:52:28,623 --> 00:52:32,627
moving into and out of
the house in 28 days.
887
00:52:34,586 --> 00:52:36,631
Everybody started
calling William Weber.
888
00:52:36,762 --> 00:52:39,460
Mr. Weber says, "Listen,
these people named
889
00:52:39,591 --> 00:52:41,375
the Lutzes bought your house."
890
00:52:41,506 --> 00:52:43,725
"You do know them
through somebody else."
891
00:52:43,856 --> 00:52:45,336
I said, "Oh, yeah?"
892
00:52:45,466 --> 00:52:48,556
"And, uh, we can use
them to make money."
893
00:52:48,687 --> 00:52:50,099
I said, "What are
you talking about?"
894
00:52:50,123 --> 00:52:52,604
And that's how the haunted
house nonsense started.
895
00:52:53,822 --> 00:52:58,305
♪ La, la, la La,
la, la, la, la, la ♪
896
00:52:58,436 --> 00:53:01,874
♪ La, la, la, la,
la La, la, la ♪
897
00:53:02,004 --> 00:53:05,747
♪ I thought a little
'Bout you last night ♪
898
00:53:05,878 --> 00:53:09,664
♪ I thought a little
'Bout you yesterday ♪
899
00:53:09,795 --> 00:53:13,625
♪ I think a little
'Bout you every day ♪
900
00:53:13,755 --> 00:53:17,368
♪ And it works out all right
901
00:53:17,498 --> 00:53:21,459
♪ La, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la ♪
902
00:53:21,589 --> 00:53:25,332
♪ La, la, la, la,
la La, la, la ♪
903
00:53:25,463 --> 00:53:29,336
♪ La, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la ♪
904
00:53:29,467 --> 00:53:32,948
♪ La, la, la, la,
la La, la, la ♪
905
00:53:33,079 --> 00:53:36,822
♪ I had a little bit
Too much to drink ♪
906
00:53:36,952 --> 00:53:40,782
♪ When I woke up It
really made me think ♪
907
00:53:40,913 --> 00:53:44,656
♪ It seems you're in
Everything I say ♪
908
00:53:44,786 --> 00:53:48,616
♪ And I think that's okay
909
00:53:48,747 --> 00:53:52,533
♪ And I want you to stay
910
00:53:52,664 --> 00:53:55,797
♪ And I think you're okay
68204
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