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BARACK OBAMA: I directed our military
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to take targeted strikes.
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DONALD TRUMP: Tonight, I ordered a targeted military strike.
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JOE BIDEN: We will respond with force and precision
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at our time, at the place we choose,
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at the moment of our choosing.
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[MUSIC PLAYING]
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ROGER STAHL: Well, they finally did it.
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- It's been more than 30 years, but Maverick is back.
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ROGER STAHL: It was hard to miss the news.
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NEWS ANCHOR: Maverick is back.
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NEWS ANCHOR: Maverick is back.
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NEWS ANCHOR: Maverick is back.
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NEWS ANCHOR: Maverick Mitchell is back.
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NEWS ANCHOR: He's back.
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- Maverick is back.
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NEWS ANCHOR: Maverick is back.
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NEWS ANCHOR: He is back.
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NEWS ANCHOR: Maverick is back.
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- Maverick is back, baby.
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NEWS ANCHOR: is back in action.
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He's back in the film.
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[CHEERS]
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- I definitely feel that love and feeling
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up here from you all.
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ROGER STAHL: The Pentagon was feeling the love, too.
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Beneath all the noise was a quiet little contract
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that allowed the US military to weave in key talking points,
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oversee the script, and require an official screening
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before its release.
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Of course, it wasn't the first time.
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- All right, talk to me, Goose.
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ROGER STAHL: You may not remember the original film
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as an instrument for engineering public opinion,
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but the Pentagon does.
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The office that supplied all those aircraft carriers
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and F-14s said as much in its own database.
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The film completed rehabilitation
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of the military's image, which had been savaged by the Vietnam
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War.
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- I got you down.
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ROGER STAHL: You might wonder how often they do this
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and how deep the influence goes.
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[MUSIC PLAYING]
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FILM NARRATOR: This is the Army Air Force's first motion
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picture unit in Culver City, California.
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ROGER STAHL: Propaganda, I've been
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studying it the better part of my adult life, especially
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the war variety.
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I've written the books, taught the courses.
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I knew that the DOD had an office for helping with movies.
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But we didn't even basic things about it.
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How many films?
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Were there really script changes?
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And what were they?
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It might as well have been a broom closet locked up
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in some dusty corner of the Pentagon.
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Then documents started to get out, some real revelations.
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The paper trail led me to a couple of British researchers
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who had been filing countless Freedom of Information Act
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requests.
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I didn't quite know what I was getting into.
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But they were delivering thousands of pages, eye popping
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news, just about every day.
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- Hi, guys, some new documents arrived this morning.
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These are some of the US Army script
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notes on a Man of Steel, the Superman movie.
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ROGER STAHL: When that door blew open,
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I got a glimpse of something way bigger than I thought possible.
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But this journey was just getting started.
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TRICIA JENKINS: The Pentagon is powerful in the film and TV industry
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because they have expensive toys.
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They have submarines.
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They have aircraft carriers.
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They have extras.
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They have pilots.
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They have helicopters.
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MATTHEW ALFORD: That is going to give them rights, usually contracted
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in, to change the script.
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OLIVER STONE: You can call it censorship.
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You can call it propaganda.
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It's all of these things.
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TANNER MIRRLEES: But this is more insidious than actually sort of state
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controlled and state produced propaganda.
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Because it passes off as just entertainment.
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- Are you the ranking officer here?
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TRICIA JENKINS: And that's when propaganda is the most effective.
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You're a little bit more open to incorporating those ideas,
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because your defenses are down.
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- Hit it.
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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: Some people probably would say,
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well, yeah, I've heard of this, like with Top Gun, maybe
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Black Hawk Down, maybe some of the Marvel series.
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MATTHEW ALFORD: But what they don't know is how systematic this has been,
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and how huge this operation has been.
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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: Now these Freedom of Information requests
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that have been successful allow us
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to actually look at that list.
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And it's stunning.
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MATTHEW ALFORD: What we've found is
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that thousands upon thousands upon thousands of products
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have been affected and are often rewritten at script level
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by the national security state in the United States.
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Do normal people know about that?
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No, of course they don't.
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[MUSIC PLAYING]
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So say you're a producer and you want to make a war film.
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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: You would walk into the Entertainment Liaison
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office in downtown Los Angeles.
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MATTHEW ALFORD: You say I want to film an Air Force base,
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or I want an aircraft carrier, or I want some Black Hawk
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helicopters, or whatever it is.
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And they would tell you straight away,
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give us your entire script.
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They're not stupid.
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They're not saying, just give us those sections
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where some dialogue takes place about the military.
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They want to have the entire manuscript.
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So that they can get a sense of the broader
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context in which the military is being portrayed.
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If they go through the script and say,
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we don't really look that heroic on page 18,
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we're going to need you to change page 18,
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the filmmaker either usually has to acquiesce
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or the Pentagon says, that's fine.
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You have the freedom to not change it.
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But we're going to take our toys and go home.
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Now, it's up to the filmmaker to decide,
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do I want to accept and make these changes?
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MATTHEW ALFORD: You'll end up signing a contract.
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And then you're locked into that.
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You're making a film with the DOD, the Department of Defense,
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as your ally.
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And they are a really important collaborator within that.
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They're effectively like another producer.
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ROGER STAHL: You might wonder what the military's own rules say
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about this.
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It turns out, for decades, the directive
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was to promote authenticity and dignity
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of military representation.
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Such a thing is open to interpretation, of course.
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But after 1988, the list expanded.
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Now, they were to promote something
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called public understanding, recruiting, and official policy
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positions.
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It's still a bit abstract on paper.
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Whose interests are being served in practice?
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MATTHEW ALFORD: Producers are able to get cut-price helicopters,
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cut-price tanks, cut-price aircraft carriers,
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as well as men, and material, and advice.
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And the more realistic, of course, a film can be,
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the bigger the chances are for being big box office hits.
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And the DOD says this is a wonderful opportunity
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to present ourselves before the public in a positive light
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through a medium that is mass, that is commercial,
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that isn't inflected with negative connotations
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of propaganda.
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ROGER STAHL: Just listen to how the Pentagon itself
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puts it in the weekly activities entry for the 2013 film Lone
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Survivor.
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"Entertainment feature films like
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this reach far greater audiences than any single news media
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story.
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Audiences going to see the film will voluntarily
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sit through a two hour infomercial."
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If you're a producer who can deliver this kind of thing,
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you just might have a career on your hands.
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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: There are particular types of directors and filmmakers
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the Pentagon really likes to work with
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and has been working with repeatedly, because they know
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that they can trust them, people like Jerry Bruckheimer,
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people like Michael Bay.
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PHIL STRUB: We've worked with Mr. Bay here since Armageddon,
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if I'm not mistaken, and hope to do more of the same.
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ROGER STAHL: That's Phil Strub.
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He directed the office for 30 years.
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You'll be seeing a lot of him.
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The name of the game in his world
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is leveraging military access to tilt the narrative
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and to maintain persistent relationships with the Michael
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Bays out there.
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I've got a direct line to the Pentagon.
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ROGER STAHL: For them, it's a matter of greenlighting
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projects the office will like.
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They know that their scripts are going to get vetted.
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So what the effect quite often is
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is that filmmakers already write their scripts in ways
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that they know will ultimately please the Pentagon.
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Once we said we're interested, then we
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met with Simpson/Bruckheimer.
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They very much wanted us.
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We were concerned about will the military allow us to do it.
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Because I didn't want to get involved in a movie that
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didn't get made.
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I just... I really wanted to get something made.
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Because we had written six pictures before this, and not
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one of them got shot.
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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: People self-censor and tame down any potential critical
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view, because they know otherwise,
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it's going to get a desk reject straight away.
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ROGER STAHL: The CIA essentially copied this model
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when it opened its own office in 1996.
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TRICIA JENKINS: But what they figured out is that they can be really
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effective in the pre-production stage.
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And so they work a lot with screen writers
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as ideas are being formed or drafted
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in order to be able to have a say in how the agency is going
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to be represented.
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ROGER STAHL: As you might imagine,
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no one involved in these deals, whether it be the CIA, DOD,
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or entertainment industry at large,
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is exactly clamoring to talk about them publicly.
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SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: And perhaps that's not surprising.
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You would have to ask yourself as someone
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who goes to the cinema whether I want to pay to actually watch
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some propaganda stuff.
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This relationship is not secret.
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It's just that they don't want to make a big thing of it.
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What they don't want anyone to know
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is that this is done systematically.
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And they also are particularly wary of the public knowing
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about script rewrites.
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If people actually saw a script
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and then looked at the kind of blue bowdlerizing lines
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that the military had done on the script,
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I think people would begin to realize how dangerous
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and how censorious this kind of activity is.
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[MUSIC PLAYING]
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ROGER STAHL: To see how all this works, just
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look at how the Entertainment Office has
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used the biggest weapon in its arsenal, rejection.
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It can put a production at a distinct disadvantage.
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Say you want to make a film based on the Kennedy White
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House tapes about how military leaders almost
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got us into a nuclear war during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
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That'll earn you a solid one.
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You'll have to go to the Philippines for old planes
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to repaint and military bases.
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You'll have to construct U2 sequences from scratch
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and beg a museum for a destroyer.
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Rejections like this have become more common over the years.
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On the heels of World War II, the Pentagon
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assisted a long list of films.
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But it rarely flat out denied filmmakers.
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As Americans began to deal with a more controversial history
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of military intervention, though, the rejections
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started to come, first with films
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that failed to celebrate US military action in Vietnam
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and continuing with the Cold War, Gulf Wars, and issues way
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beyond war films.
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But these were only the rejections
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that were lucky enough to still be made.
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Many more weren't.
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That is no military assistance often means no show.
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Producer Jerry Bruckheimer said that without military help,
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he couldn't have made Pearl Harbor.
257
00:11:28,910 --> 00:11:30,829
It apparently means a lot when the Navy pulls
258
00:11:30,830 --> 00:11:33,229
more than 20 Vietnam era destroyers out
259
00:11:33,230 --> 00:11:35,689
of storage for you to blow up.
260
00:11:35,690 --> 00:11:38,119
There wouldn't have been a Top Gun without support either,
261
00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:39,799
he said.
262
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,079
Most of the time, it comes down to the studio's need
263
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:44,059
to keep costs low.
264
00:11:44,060 --> 00:11:47,299
Take The Hunt for Red October, producer Mace Neufeld
265
00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:49,099
said Paramount straight up told him
266
00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:51,769
if you don't get cooperation, we won't make the movie.
267
00:11:51,770 --> 00:11:53,771
And they put it in the contract.
268
00:11:53,772 --> 00:11:55,729
It was a good thing for Neufeld that the script
269
00:11:55,730 --> 00:11:57,199
was an easy sell.
270
00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,399
It set him up for the long Jack Ryan franchise.
271
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,329
In contrast, consider another '90s film, Countermeasures.
272
00:12:05,330 --> 00:12:07,009
If it doesn't ring a bell, it's probably
273
00:12:07,010 --> 00:12:08,809
because it was never made.
274
00:12:08,810 --> 00:12:11,359
Sigourney Weaver had signed on to play the lead role.
275
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,909
But that didn't matter as much as what the Entertainment
276
00:12:13,910 --> 00:12:15,139
Office thought.
277
00:12:15,140 --> 00:12:17,299
They didn't want a story about weapons smuggling
278
00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:19,369
on an aircraft carrier.
279
00:12:19,370 --> 00:12:22,819
MATTHEW ALFORD: That was rejected explicitly on the grounds
280
00:12:22,820 --> 00:12:26,479
that we don't want to denigrate the White House.
281
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,049
We don't want to remind the public of the Iran-Contra
282
00:12:30,050 --> 00:12:33,589
scandal, which involved illegal arms sales,
283
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:36,529
and drug running, and arming of Contra rebels,
284
00:12:36,530 --> 00:12:39,949
and all sorts of horrendous things in the '80s.
285
00:12:39,950 --> 00:12:42,709
ROGER STAHL: In this case, the Pentagon got its wish.
286
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:45,299
The public was not reminded.
287
00:12:48,570 --> 00:12:50,609
The Office's own database is littered
288
00:12:50,610 --> 00:12:52,659
with these denials never made.
289
00:12:52,660 --> 00:12:54,659
So no Eagle in the Sky.
290
00:12:54,660 --> 00:12:57,939
Denied, and never made.
291
00:12:57,940 --> 00:13:00,939
And no Recovery.
292
00:13:00,940 --> 00:13:03,519
It's clear from its own notes that the Pentagon knows
293
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,679
a denial can shoot down a film.
294
00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:07,959
The entry for A Moral Issue concludes
295
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:09,849
that since the film was never produced,
296
00:13:09,850 --> 00:13:12,849
the answer must have been no.
297
00:13:12,850 --> 00:13:15,309
Here's a sample of titles from the '80s and '90s,
298
00:13:15,310 --> 00:13:20,719
all denied and never made, so you can see what you missed.
299
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,649
What themes can earn a film a denial, you ask.
300
00:13:23,650 --> 00:13:25,659
We start to see a clear pattern when
301
00:13:25,660 --> 00:13:27,429
you look through the documents.
302
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:30,729
The office internally calls these showstoppers.
303
00:13:30,730 --> 00:13:35,229
And yeah, sometimes they can stop the show.
304
00:13:35,230 --> 00:13:38,169
The Pentagon publicly says it denies films because they're
305
00:13:38,170 --> 00:13:40,689
in some way unrealistic.
306
00:13:40,690 --> 00:13:42,159
But you don't have to be an expert
307
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:43,779
to scratch your head when it comes
308
00:13:43,780 --> 00:13:45,519
to something like Top Gun.
309
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,919
Just listen to what the consultants and writers
310
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,199
admitted in retrospect.
311
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,209
- The idea that people chase people around,
312
00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:55,539
trying to get Sidewinder tones, particularly down in the dirt,
313
00:13:55,540 --> 00:13:57,129
is not reality at all.
314
00:13:57,130 --> 00:14:00,519
- It's not realistic compared to what we do every day.
315
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,349
- And I said, well, there's no trophy.
316
00:14:02,350 --> 00:14:04,029
I said, if there was a Top Gun trophy,
317
00:14:04,030 --> 00:14:05,529
no one would ever graduate.
318
00:14:05,530 --> 00:14:07,719
You don't understand the intensity of these guys.
319
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,299
It would all be midair collisions, and crashes,
320
00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:11,290
and everybody'd die.
321
00:14:11,291 --> 00:14:12,999
Nobody would ever graduate from Top Gun.
322
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,249
JACK EPPS JR: It's very anti-Top Gun.
323
00:14:15,250 --> 00:14:17,269
Maverick as a character is anti-Top Gun.
324
00:14:17,270 --> 00:14:18,589
It's all about being together.
325
00:14:18,590 --> 00:14:19,972
So it was a dramatic license.
326
00:14:19,973 --> 00:14:20,890
And I think it worked.
327
00:14:20,891 --> 00:14:24,291
Never let the truth get in the way of a good movie.
328
00:14:24,292 --> 00:14:25,749
ROGER STAHL: None of these concerns
329
00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:29,269
appeared in the Pentagon's list of requested script changes.
330
00:14:29,270 --> 00:14:31,032
In fact, a memo from the Marine Corps
331
00:14:31,033 --> 00:14:32,949
later admitted that the Pentagon had supported
332
00:14:32,950 --> 00:14:35,079
lots of unrealistic scenes.
333
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,389
In Top Gun, they said, buzzing the tower wouldn't
334
00:14:37,390 --> 00:14:40,299
have happened without career ending consequences.
335
00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:43,629
And the famous inversion scene simply couldn't happen.
336
00:14:43,630 --> 00:14:45,369
The Marine Office assembled this list
337
00:14:45,370 --> 00:14:47,709
not to keep everyone honest, but rather to justify
338
00:14:47,710 --> 00:14:50,769
an unrealistic scene of its own, a Harrier jet flying
339
00:14:50,770 --> 00:14:52,987
through a cave for a Top Gun style film
340
00:14:52,988 --> 00:14:54,988
they hoped to develop.
341
00:14:56,830 --> 00:14:59,499
The issue of realism comes to a head with films
342
00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:01,719
written by vets themselves.
343
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,209
Surely they must pass the authenticity test
344
00:15:04,210 --> 00:15:06,279
if Top Gun did.
345
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,409
Jarhead was based on the celebrated book
346
00:15:08,410 --> 00:15:11,469
by Marine vet Anthony Swofford and adapted for the screen
347
00:15:11,470 --> 00:15:13,359
by another marine vet.
348
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,279
The DOD has one look at the script, though,
349
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,229
and finds too many serious concerns.
350
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:21,159
They don't want audiences to see what Swofford saw,
351
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,009
like a sniper trainer praising the Kennedy assassination
352
00:15:24,010 --> 00:15:27,489
as the perfect shot, Marines getting excited for war,
353
00:15:27,490 --> 00:15:29,799
boasting about killing ragheads and shooting
354
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,769
Bedouin camels, references to friendly fire,
355
00:15:32,770 --> 00:15:37,246
and attempted suicide, and an abusive drill instructor.
356
00:15:37,247 --> 00:15:39,579
DRILL INSTRUCTOR: What the fuck are you even doing here?
357
00:15:39,580 --> 00:15:43,279
Sir, I got lost on the way to college, sir.
358
00:15:44,493 --> 00:15:45,909
ROGER STAHL: In fact, the Pentagon
359
00:15:45,910 --> 00:15:47,559
sees the movie as such a threat that it
360
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,569
moves to block the director from recruiting
361
00:15:49,570 --> 00:15:53,019
any off-duty military personnel as extras.
362
00:15:53,020 --> 00:15:55,592
When the film premieres, the Office explains to the press
363
00:15:55,593 --> 00:15:57,759
that it denied Jarhead assistance because it was not
364
00:15:57,760 --> 00:15:59,829
a quote, "feasible interpretation
365
00:15:59,830 --> 00:16:01,629
of military life."
366
00:16:01,630 --> 00:16:03,909
Reporters from NPR and the LA Times
367
00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:06,189
ask if they can take a few Marines to the film
368
00:16:06,190 --> 00:16:07,869
and get their reactions.
369
00:16:07,870 --> 00:16:11,439
"Absolutely not," says the Entertainment Office.
370
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:13,509
But eventually outlets like the San Diego
371
00:16:13,510 --> 00:16:17,619
Tribune do manage to scare up some Marine vets, who guess what?
372
00:16:17,620 --> 00:16:20,854
Universally laud the film for its realism.
373
00:16:25,477 --> 00:16:28,479
Or take Fields of Fire from the early '90s,
374
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,269
which was denied and ultimately never made.
375
00:16:31,270 --> 00:16:34,239
This one was notable because it had some real muscle behind it,
376
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,479
Jim Webb, a highly decorated Marine Vietnam vet
377
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:38,979
who had written a best selling novel
378
00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:41,290
and would go on to be a US Senator.
379
00:16:41,292 --> 00:16:42,999
At the time, he had just come off a stint
380
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:45,189
as Secretary of the Navy.
381
00:16:45,190 --> 00:16:47,709
Now, that's some credibility, right?
382
00:16:47,710 --> 00:16:50,649
Not enough for Phil Strub at the Pentagon office.
383
00:16:50,650 --> 00:16:53,049
The script, he says, makes it look like "fragging,
384
00:16:53,050 --> 00:16:55,989
burning villages, executing prisoners, and drug abuse where
385
00:16:55,990 --> 00:16:57,759
everyday occurrences."
386
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,519
Yes these things happen, but mostly not.
387
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,549
"Consider making substantive changes."
388
00:17:03,550 --> 00:17:05,858
The Marine Corps, for its part, disagrees
389
00:17:05,858 --> 00:17:07,779
and asks him to reconsider.
390
00:17:07,780 --> 00:17:10,838
Webb's book is required reading for Marine officers
391
00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:13,509
and is generally acknowledged by Marine Vietnam veterans
392
00:17:13,510 --> 00:17:16,898
as the most genuine fictional account of the war.
393
00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:19,346
Webb himself had some strong words.
394
00:17:19,347 --> 00:17:21,429
"It appears to me that what you're really saying
395
00:17:21,430 --> 00:17:23,138
is that when it comes to Vietnam,
396
00:17:23,140 --> 00:17:25,959
DOD will support only sterile documentaries
397
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,729
or feature films that amount to nothing
398
00:17:27,730 --> 00:17:30,459
more than dishonest propaganda."
399
00:17:30,460 --> 00:17:32,619
Sorry, says Strub.
400
00:17:32,620 --> 00:17:36,559
And it became a Vietnam film we didn't get to see.
401
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,809
I kept thinking about Oliver Stone, too.
402
00:17:41,810 --> 00:17:43,579
Before becoming a filmmaker, this
403
00:17:43,580 --> 00:17:45,739
was a guy who had volunteered specifically
404
00:17:45,740 --> 00:17:49,699
for combat duty in Vietnam and emerged a decorated vet.
405
00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:52,729
His early breakouts are still lauded as the most realistic
406
00:17:52,730 --> 00:17:54,949
of the post-Vietnam wave.
407
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:57,379
But it was a real uphill battle with the Pentagon,
408
00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:59,749
rejection after rejection.
409
00:17:59,750 --> 00:18:03,019
Platoon for a long list of unacceptable themes.
410
00:18:03,020 --> 00:18:04,579
Born on the Fourth of July because it
411
00:18:04,580 --> 00:18:07,369
made a strong statement against participating in the Vietnam
412
00:18:07,370 --> 00:18:08,240
War.
413
00:18:08,241 --> 00:18:11,749
Both were put on hold for years.
414
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:13,279
I'd give my right eye to hear what
415
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,279
the man himself had to say about all this.
416
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,009
Luckily, he had read some of Alford and Secker's early work
417
00:18:19,010 --> 00:18:20,389
and was impressed.
418
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:22,189
Matt was able to shake a few trees
419
00:18:22,190 --> 00:18:24,919
and get an interview for me.
420
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:27,649
Military veteran, Hollywood veteran,
421
00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:30,949
I pictured it going down something like this.
422
00:18:30,950 --> 00:18:32,809
- I assume if you've come this far, what
423
00:18:32,810 --> 00:18:34,849
I have to say interests you.
424
00:18:34,850 --> 00:18:36,699
But I'm not going to name names and tell you
425
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:41,039
who or what I represent, except to say you're close.
426
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:42,859
ROGER STAHL: I wasn't prepared for this.
427
00:18:42,860 --> 00:18:45,739
Obviously, I was shocked by some of these...
428
00:18:45,740 --> 00:18:49,579
What these films had to go through to get what they call
429
00:18:49,580 --> 00:18:52,039
weapons of war, Pentagon cooperation,
430
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,789
as well as CIA cooperation.
431
00:18:55,790 --> 00:18:59,819
It's a gigantic iceberg that you've touched.
432
00:18:59,820 --> 00:19:02,209
ROGER STAHL: Wait, Oliver Stone can't believe
433
00:19:02,210 --> 00:19:04,829
how deep the story goes.
434
00:19:04,830 --> 00:19:07,229
It raises the question, could the industry
435
00:19:07,230 --> 00:19:10,079
be in the dark as much as the rest of us?
436
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:15,559
I guess you know what they say, the best PR is invisible.
437
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,199
But what about his firsthand experience?
438
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,759
I wrote Platoon as a naive young screenwriter,
439
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,249
because it was the truth of what I saw in Vietnam.
440
00:19:25,250 --> 00:19:27,829
Of course, it was dramatized.
441
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:30,259
And at some point, I forgot exactly when,
442
00:19:30,260 --> 00:19:35,809
we sent in the script and asked for their cooperation.
443
00:19:35,810 --> 00:19:38,959
We got a pretty definite turndown from them,
444
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:44,899
saying this was an unrealistic portrayal of GIs.
445
00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:48,559
ROGER STAHL: It was about this time that Top Gun paid a visit.
446
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,469
OLIVER STONE: I was offered the script when it was a magazine article
447
00:19:51,470 --> 00:19:53,629
or something way back by Don Simpson.
448
00:19:53,630 --> 00:19:54,899
I just couldn't do it.
449
00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:55,880
I thought it was...
450
00:19:55,881 --> 00:19:58,099
I knew... at that point, I was accepting that Platoon
451
00:19:58,100 --> 00:19:58,975
would never get done.
452
00:19:58,976 --> 00:20:02,149
You have to understand, I had shelved Platoon.
453
00:20:02,150 --> 00:20:03,619
I put it out of my mind.
454
00:20:03,620 --> 00:20:06,559
I had written Born on the Fourth of July and Platoon and I...
455
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,209
Both projects had died.
456
00:20:08,210 --> 00:20:11,209
STAHL (to Stone): It is astonishing that you were offered the Top Gun script.
457
00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:13,759
That is an astonishing fact.
458
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,459
And I'm still trying to process that.
459
00:20:16,460 --> 00:20:19,399
ROGER STAHL: It would have made for an easier start on a career.
460
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,769
While Top Gun was opening up the after burners
461
00:20:21,770 --> 00:20:25,429
with full military support, Platoon and Born on the Fourth
462
00:20:25,430 --> 00:20:28,399
barely made it out of the jungle alive.
463
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,409
It's not the only factor in play, I know.
464
00:20:30,410 --> 00:20:33,079
But this is how the military's invisible hand
465
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,749
moves over Hollywood.
466
00:20:35,750 --> 00:20:37,099
STAHL (to Stone): Do you recognize this?
467
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:40,849
I wanted to bring a gift for you, blast from the past.
468
00:20:40,850 --> 00:20:45,360
ROGER STAHL: I had his Platoon rejection letter framed.
469
00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:48,231
I never saw this.
470
00:20:48,232 --> 00:20:49,939
It's funny they mention what I mentioned,
471
00:20:49,940 --> 00:20:53,059
the murder and rape of innocent Vietnamese villagers.
472
00:20:53,060 --> 00:20:55,619
Well, I saw both.
473
00:20:55,620 --> 00:20:58,199
The cold blooded murder of one US soldier by another,
474
00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,130
did not see that.
475
00:20:59,131 --> 00:21:01,769
But certainly, there's reports of it up and down.
476
00:21:01,770 --> 00:21:05,009
They have admitted to fragging, how many were
477
00:21:05,010 --> 00:21:08,039
killed in fragging incidents, I imagine they minimized it.
478
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,139
And the portrayal of the majority as illiterate
479
00:21:10,140 --> 00:21:13,679
delinquents.
480
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,139
The entire script is rife with unrealistic and highly
481
00:21:16,140 --> 00:21:18,999
unfavorable depictions.
482
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:20,549
So I'm glad you got this.
483
00:21:20,550 --> 00:21:22,499
That's 1984.
484
00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:25,139
That would be the second time I tried to do the movie with Dino
485
00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:26,909
de Laurentiis.
486
00:21:26,910 --> 00:21:29,129
I'd love to get a copy of that, by the way.
487
00:21:29,130 --> 00:21:30,929
Oh, thank you so much.
488
00:21:30,930 --> 00:21:34,439
The whole ethos of that office, Pentagon,
489
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,719
is that they're supposed to provide accuracy
490
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,849
to the filmmakers, accuracy.
491
00:21:38,850 --> 00:21:41,739
And they do the opposite.
492
00:21:41,740 --> 00:21:45,681
They provide inaccuracy and lies.
493
00:21:45,682 --> 00:21:47,639
You show the bad side as well as the good side.
494
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,319
We keep making military movies, especially since 2001,
495
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,009
glorifying the American soldier, glorifying our patriotism,
496
00:21:56,010 --> 00:21:59,409
nationalism, homeland, all this nonsense.
497
00:21:59,410 --> 00:22:01,589
We make it into this fetish.
498
00:22:01,590 --> 00:22:03,239
We fetishize the military.
499
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,539
No one can say a bad word about them.
500
00:22:06,540 --> 00:22:07,996
This is wrong.
501
00:22:07,997 --> 00:22:08,580
This is wrong.
502
00:22:08,581 --> 00:22:12,037
You have to point out evil when it happens.
503
00:22:12,038 --> 00:22:16,320
[MUSIC PLAYING]
504
00:22:18,388 --> 00:22:19,929
ROGER STAHL: Before we go any deeper,
505
00:22:19,930 --> 00:22:21,679
you might wonder how it is we came to know
506
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:23,197
what goes on in that office.
507
00:22:23,198 --> 00:22:25,239
I'll tell you one thing, we didn't learn about it
508
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,769
from the news.
509
00:22:26,770 --> 00:22:28,509
On the exceedingly rare occasions
510
00:22:28,510 --> 00:22:30,549
when the issue does get press attention,
511
00:22:30,550 --> 00:22:32,829
this is the kind of thing you get.
512
00:22:32,830 --> 00:22:34,389
REPORTER: Phil Strub reviews scripts,
513
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:38,889
deciding if a script has the glimmer of realism or fun
514
00:22:38,890 --> 00:22:40,989
he's looking for.
515
00:22:40,990 --> 00:22:42,609
ROGER STAHL: Realism and fun.
516
00:22:42,610 --> 00:22:44,441
Sounds innocent enough.
517
00:22:44,442 --> 00:22:46,149
If you wanted to know any more than that,
518
00:22:46,150 --> 00:22:49,179
though, for decades, there was just one place to look.
519
00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:54,039
There was one guy, basically, one historian who totally
520
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,559
dominated this field in the '70s, '80s, '90s, all the way
521
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:00,789
up into the 2000s.
522
00:23:00,790 --> 00:23:04,149
ANCHOR: The film and military historian, whose book, Guts and Glory,
523
00:23:04,150 --> 00:23:06,879
is recognized as the definitive study of the relationship
524
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,569
between the military and movie industry, Lawrence Suid.
525
00:23:10,570 --> 00:23:16,689
MATTHEW ALFORD: And he was the person who had all
526
00:23:16,690 --> 00:23:19,299
of the relevant documentation on this.
527
00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:22,159
But Suid was the only person writing about it.
528
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,349
And so scholars didn't even bother looking into it.
529
00:23:26,350 --> 00:23:28,629
ROGER STAHL: Suid largely bypassed any concerns
530
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:31,149
about steering public opinion and instead told
531
00:23:31,150 --> 00:23:33,399
a story about the military constantly fixing
532
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,499
Hollywood's mistakes.
533
00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:37,419
Eventually, though, someone else came along
534
00:23:37,420 --> 00:23:39,369
and did a little muckraking.
535
00:23:39,370 --> 00:23:45,009
MATTHEW ALFORD: It was in 2004 that a journalist, a kind of maverick
536
00:23:45,010 --> 00:23:47,109
journalist who I quite like called
537
00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:50,787
David Robb decided that he was going to investigate this.
538
00:23:50,788 --> 00:23:53,079
ROGER STAHL: Robb interviewed a bunch of industry folks
539
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,969
and combed the few public documents
540
00:23:54,970 --> 00:23:57,639
the DOD had made available to Georgetown University
541
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,439
and the National Archives.
542
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,869
He somehow persuaded the Marine Corps Office in LA
543
00:24:01,870 --> 00:24:03,759
to give him a peek, too.
544
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:08,259
MATTHEW ALFORD: He acquired much of the initial documentation.
545
00:24:08,260 --> 00:24:13,179
And he was able to punch a big hole in what Lawrence Suid had
546
00:24:13,180 --> 00:24:17,554
been saying for the previous 30 or 40 years.
547
00:24:17,555 --> 00:24:19,929
ROGER STAHL: It was nowhere near a comprehensive picture,
548
00:24:19,930 --> 00:24:21,489
but this was the first time someone
549
00:24:21,490 --> 00:24:23,614
had made the case that the Entertainment Office was
550
00:24:23,615 --> 00:24:26,229
a sophisticated propaganda machine.
551
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:28,839
Suid did not like this at all.
552
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,509
He wrote a scathing review that all but charged Robb
553
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:33,639
with fabrication and dismissed the idea
554
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,009
that the office wielded any influence over movies
555
00:24:36,010 --> 00:24:38,289
beyond making them more accurate.
556
00:24:38,290 --> 00:24:41,379
Robb shot back, calling the review libelous.
557
00:24:41,380 --> 00:24:44,079
It has to be the most contentious exchange I've ever
558
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,689
seen in an academic journal.
559
00:24:46,690 --> 00:24:48,789
But Robb's work inspired other researchers
560
00:24:48,790 --> 00:24:50,499
like Matthew Alford, who set out to get
561
00:24:50,500 --> 00:24:52,659
a full sense of the operation.
562
00:24:52,660 --> 00:24:56,829
And this is two decades, three decades after these things
563
00:24:56,830 --> 00:24:58,419
should have been investigated.
564
00:24:58,420 --> 00:24:59,751
I started looking into it.
565
00:24:59,752 --> 00:25:01,959
And of course, I contacted the Department of Defense.
566
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,539
I contact Phil Strub.
567
00:25:04,540 --> 00:25:09,159
And Strub can say to me, oh, we don't have that documentation.
568
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,156
We've given it to Lawrence Suid.
569
00:25:13,157 --> 00:25:14,739
ROGER STAHL: So he picked up the trail
570
00:25:14,740 --> 00:25:17,439
himself, just across the pond and just up the river
571
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,851
from the Pentagon at Georgetown University Library.
572
00:25:20,852 --> 00:25:22,059
MATTHEW ALFORD: You asked if I was nervous.
573
00:25:22,060 --> 00:25:24,039
And a little bit nervous.
574
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,499
Not really nervous about being on camera.
575
00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:30,159
But nervous because I've just spent a large amount of money
576
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,389
to come over to a library.
577
00:25:33,390 --> 00:25:36,724
And I've spent over $1,000 to come to a library.
578
00:25:36,725 --> 00:25:39,099
ROGER STAHL: There, he found the public collection of DOD
579
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:42,109
donated documents, which he could access no problem.
580
00:25:42,110 --> 00:25:44,409
But then there was Suid's personal collection,
581
00:25:44,410 --> 00:25:46,629
which Georgetown held quite separately.
582
00:25:46,630 --> 00:25:49,689
This was the real prize, the documents the DOD had
583
00:25:49,690 --> 00:25:52,239
given exclusively to Suid.
584
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,999
MATTHEW ALFORD: So every time anyone wanted to go
585
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,859
into that private collection, which
586
00:25:56,860 --> 00:25:59,019
as far as I can tell, no one ever did,
587
00:25:59,020 --> 00:26:01,419
because it was never advertised, it was never...
588
00:26:01,420 --> 00:26:04,419
There was no kind of publicity or awareness
589
00:26:04,420 --> 00:26:08,349
of this whole thing, but when I tried to get into that archive
590
00:26:08,350 --> 00:26:10,299
and when a couple of my colleagues
591
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:12,999
tried to get into that archive, Lawrence Suid
592
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,889
was able simply to say no.
593
00:26:14,890 --> 00:26:17,689
I'm using that.
594
00:26:17,690 --> 00:26:20,419
ROGER STAHL: What do you do if you get stonewalled like this?
595
00:26:20,420 --> 00:26:22,789
Well, you need a real bulldog.
596
00:26:22,790 --> 00:26:26,029
Enter another enterprising Brit, freelance journalist Tom
597
00:26:26,030 --> 00:26:27,079
Secker.
598
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,379
Having read Robb's work, too, he had been carpet bombing the DOD
599
00:26:30,380 --> 00:26:32,989
with Freedom of Information Act requests.
600
00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:34,729
- Hey guys, we've got some new documents.
601
00:26:34,730 --> 00:26:39,919
These are some DOD script notes on the film Pitch Perfect 3.
602
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,379
MATTHEW ALFORD: In fact, the government was so annoyed
603
00:26:42,380 --> 00:26:44,329
at the amount of document requests
604
00:26:44,330 --> 00:26:48,529
that Tom Secker put in that they labeled him a vexatious
605
00:26:48,530 --> 00:26:50,929
requester.
606
00:26:50,930 --> 00:26:53,442
And so Tom, and I think Tom actually found out
607
00:26:53,443 --> 00:26:55,609
that he was called a vexatious requester, because he
608
00:26:55,610 --> 00:26:58,519
put in a request for any information about himself
609
00:26:58,520 --> 00:26:59,959
in emails.
610
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:03,799
And so from that point, I think I said to Tom, well,
611
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,529
maybe you should put in more requests.
612
00:27:06,530 --> 00:27:09,509
And Tom said, oh yeah, I'd quite like to do that.
613
00:27:09,510 --> 00:27:12,979
And then, it just snowballed from that point.
614
00:27:12,980 --> 00:27:16,399
And we ended up having thousands and thousands of pages
615
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,007
of documentation come in.
616
00:27:18,008 --> 00:27:19,549
ROGER STAHL: Internal correspondence,
617
00:27:19,550 --> 00:27:22,819
activity reports, line by line script changes.
618
00:27:22,820 --> 00:27:25,099
The world was opening up.
619
00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:26,749
Then another break.
620
00:27:26,750 --> 00:27:28,849
In an email, Phil Strub offhandedly
621
00:27:28,850 --> 00:27:31,759
mentioned the existence of an incomplete database.
622
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,069
So Tom put in a request for it.
623
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:35,899
First, the army denied having it.
624
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:39,169
And then later that year, the request came through.
625
00:27:39,170 --> 00:27:41,539
This was the Rosetta Stone.
626
00:27:41,540 --> 00:27:43,459
Although missing lots of entries, the database
627
00:27:43,460 --> 00:27:48,629
listed 900, all the way to the present, films and TV shows.
628
00:27:48,630 --> 00:27:49,999
It was a bit of a shock.
629
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,129
When we interviewed Strub, a few years back,
630
00:27:52,130 --> 00:27:54,589
he denied even keeping count.
631
00:27:54,590 --> 00:27:58,429
Well, I don't have an exact number that
632
00:27:58,430 --> 00:28:02,509
would describe what pictures the department was involved with
633
00:28:02,510 --> 00:28:03,180
or...
634
00:28:03,181 --> 00:28:05,179
ROGER STAHL: Before all these document releases,
635
00:28:05,180 --> 00:28:07,849
you had to assume that the DOD and CIA had affected
636
00:28:07,850 --> 00:28:09,889
only a couple hundred films.
637
00:28:09,890 --> 00:28:12,409
Now we could account for 10 times that many,
638
00:28:12,410 --> 00:28:16,489
more than 2,500 films and television shows.
639
00:28:16,490 --> 00:28:18,529
Count up the individual TV episodes,
640
00:28:18,530 --> 00:28:20,879
and it's thousands more.
641
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:26,099
Naturally, the CIA files have been harder to crack.
642
00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:31,919
TRICIA JENKINS: It's tough, because the CIA has been less transparent than
643
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,339
the Department of Defense in terms of how they work with
644
00:28:35,340 --> 00:28:39,239
Hollywood, because so much of their stuff is done
645
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:40,919
in the pre-production stage.
646
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,159
It happens in conversations over the phone.
647
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,509
There's not a paper trail.
648
00:28:46,510 --> 00:28:48,059
There are emails that are exchanged.
649
00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:50,219
But you have to get access to those emails
650
00:28:50,220 --> 00:28:51,989
through a FOIA request.
651
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:53,409
Sometimes those are denied.
652
00:28:53,410 --> 00:28:55,749
Sometimes those take years to come to fruition.
653
00:28:55,750 --> 00:28:58,619
And so this relationship, and exactly how it works,
654
00:28:58,620 --> 00:29:01,469
and what scenes the CIA has objected to, what
655
00:29:01,470 --> 00:29:05,039
scenes they were pushing in order to have them incorporated
656
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:09,119
into the final product is a very murky world
657
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,299
that's very hard for academics to penetrate.
658
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,249
ROGER STAHL: While the CIA material trickled in,
659
00:29:17,250 --> 00:29:20,459
the DOD story took a dramatic turn.
660
00:29:20,460 --> 00:29:21,839
I knew Suid had been ailing.
661
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,629
But in late 2019, Georgetown Library
662
00:29:24,630 --> 00:29:27,509
informed me that he passed away.
663
00:29:27,510 --> 00:29:30,309
I would never get to meet him.
664
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:33,279
I would get to meet his archive, though.
665
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,529
I was shocked to learn that his estate had opened it
666
00:29:35,530 --> 00:29:36,609
to the public.
667
00:29:36,610 --> 00:29:40,389
And I was the first to have a look.
668
00:29:40,390 --> 00:29:43,299
The collection truly took my breath away,
669
00:29:43,300 --> 00:29:45,879
a mountain of official documents that blew the lid
670
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,159
off the whole operation.
671
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,919
But a few other things caught my eye, too.
672
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,169
There were these little notes from the Pentagon Office
673
00:29:53,170 --> 00:29:55,149
that suggested Suid just had to ask,
674
00:29:55,150 --> 00:29:58,599
and they'd hand the documents right over.
675
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,809
There was also a big stash of audiotaped interviews.
676
00:30:01,810 --> 00:30:03,819
It struck me that the ones with Phil Strub
677
00:30:03,820 --> 00:30:05,619
seemed pretty chummy.
678
00:30:05,620 --> 00:30:07,299
Strub promises to give up files.
679
00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:10,959
And you can hear him tapping away at the Pentagon database.
680
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,026
LAWRENCE SUID: GI Jane has a file?
681
00:30:13,027 --> 00:30:14,109
PHIL STRUB: Probably, yes.
682
00:30:14,110 --> 00:30:15,999
LAWRENCE SUID: OK, but no cooperation.
683
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,099
Tuskegee Airmen, you gave them some help?
684
00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:20,319
PHIL STRUB: Oh, yeah, big time.
685
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,649
What was the one I was just going to look up?
686
00:30:22,650 --> 00:30:23,500
Forrest Gump.
687
00:30:23,501 --> 00:30:25,359
LAWRENCE SUID: Yeah, Forrest Gump.
688
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,519
ROGER STAHL: Apparently Strub gave Suid database
689
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,259
login privileges.
690
00:30:29,260 --> 00:30:31,899
I found a screenshot in the collection.
691
00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:34,081
That's some high level clearance.
692
00:30:34,082 --> 00:30:35,539
LAWRENCE SUID: I have that written.
693
00:30:35,540 --> 00:30:38,114
You'll see the manuscript, The Siege.
694
00:30:38,115 --> 00:30:39,489
ROGER STAHL: Hold on, did he just
695
00:30:39,490 --> 00:30:42,729
tell Strub you'll see the manuscript?
696
00:30:42,730 --> 00:30:44,859
Then I discovered older taped interviews
697
00:30:44,860 --> 00:30:48,039
with Donald Baruch, who ran the office before Strub.
698
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,644
He's giving notes on the Guts and Glory manuscript.
699
00:30:51,645 --> 00:30:53,019
DON BARUCH: At the top of page 5,
700
00:30:53,020 --> 00:30:54,999
you say "filled with historic..." this
701
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,149
is in regard to Deer Hunter.
702
00:30:58,150 --> 00:31:00,039
Now, we're on page 6, and you say
703
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,409
"although the Navy provided..." final paragraph on page 3...
704
00:31:03,410 --> 00:31:08,899
Page 7, I would suggest deleting "at the same time"
705
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:11,119
and starting "the studios recognized
706
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,239
the value of Department of Defense cooperation."
707
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:15,709
Now you're saying here...
708
00:31:15,710 --> 00:31:16,909
LAWRENCE SUID: Page 12?
709
00:31:16,910 --> 00:31:18,619
DON BARUCH: Page 12.
710
00:31:18,620 --> 00:31:20,689
ROGER STAHL: I had to wonder, how deep was
711
00:31:20,690 --> 00:31:23,449
Suid's relationship with the Pentagon Office?
712
00:31:23,450 --> 00:31:26,989
So I headed to New York to Don Baruch's personal archive,
713
00:31:26,990 --> 00:31:31,399
kept at Baruch College founded by his uncle, the financier.
714
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,499
In a box of Office memorabilia, they
715
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:35,959
happened to have Baruch's Rolodex.
716
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,179
Right alongside Clint Eastwood and other Hollywood
717
00:31:38,180 --> 00:31:41,429
heavyweights, there was Lawrence Suid.
718
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:43,499
Baruch also kept a Suid file.
719
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:46,319
In it, I found his letter recommending the Guts and Glory
720
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,989
project for a Guggenheim Fellowship.
721
00:31:48,990 --> 00:31:51,899
He even kept early drafts of its chapters and clippings
722
00:31:51,900 --> 00:31:54,019
of its reviews.
723
00:31:54,020 --> 00:31:55,569
So there it was.
724
00:31:55,570 --> 00:31:57,609
For decades, the Office had been trading
725
00:31:57,610 --> 00:31:59,859
access to influence not just the big screen,
726
00:31:59,860 --> 00:32:02,689
but also its very own story.
727
00:32:02,690 --> 00:32:04,449
It was starting to become clear why we had
728
00:32:04,450 --> 00:32:08,573
known so little for so long.
729
00:32:08,574 --> 00:32:12,519
[MUSIC PLAYING]
730
00:32:14,970 --> 00:32:17,789
If you really want to dive into these script negotiations,
731
00:32:17,790 --> 00:32:19,709
a good place to start is how these offices
732
00:32:19,710 --> 00:32:22,889
project the institution itself on the screen.
733
00:32:22,890 --> 00:32:24,929
Take something obvious, like recruiting, which
734
00:32:24,930 --> 00:32:27,096
runs deeper than you think.
735
00:32:27,097 --> 00:32:28,679
This kind of thing has a long history.
736
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,899
But of course, Top Gun took it to new heights.
737
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:36,004
They even set up recruiting tables outside theaters.
738
00:32:36,005 --> 00:32:37,379
This function of the film was not
739
00:32:37,380 --> 00:32:39,411
lost on Director Tony Scott.
740
00:32:39,412 --> 00:32:41,369
- All these kids must hate me, because they all
741
00:32:41,370 --> 00:32:44,279
signed on thinking they're going to be fighter pilots pulling
742
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:45,569
broads all over the world.
743
00:32:45,570 --> 00:32:47,849
And they all ended up in 11 stories down
744
00:32:47,850 --> 00:32:49,349
in some shitty old aircraft carrier,
745
00:32:49,350 --> 00:32:51,809
stuck in the Indian Ocean.
746
00:32:51,810 --> 00:32:54,244
- Hollywood, you're looking good.
747
00:32:54,245 --> 00:32:55,619
ROGER STAHL: More recently, there
748
00:32:55,620 --> 00:32:58,409
have been even bigger leaps into this territory.
749
00:32:58,410 --> 00:33:01,289
Act of Valor literally started life as a recruitment ad
750
00:33:01,290 --> 00:33:05,459
before the Navy decided it would make a good feature film.
751
00:33:05,460 --> 00:33:08,159
Captain Marvel was also a recruiting bonanza,
752
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,549
a vehicle for the Air Force to reach young women.
753
00:33:11,550 --> 00:33:15,149
- The Air Force was welcoming and amazing.
754
00:33:15,150 --> 00:33:18,479
It was important for Brie to go up in the F-16
755
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,849
and discover who Carol Danvers is.
756
00:33:20,850 --> 00:33:21,869
- Going to be fun.
757
00:33:21,870 --> 00:33:24,059
The core of her is the Air Force.
758
00:33:24,060 --> 00:33:25,499
It's the spirit of the Air Force.
759
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:28,019
But more than anything, it was like the spirit of the Air
760
00:33:28,020 --> 00:33:32,159
Force and the spirit of being a pilot.
761
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,009
ROGER STAHL: Even the CIA is in on the game.
762
00:33:35,010 --> 00:33:38,819
Its involvement in the show Alias went far beyond support.
763
00:33:38,820 --> 00:33:40,859
Jennifer Garner, who played the main character,
764
00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:43,349
did a series of recruitment pitches.
765
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:46,649
- Right now, the CIA has important exciting jobs
766
00:33:46,650 --> 00:33:48,650
for US citizens.
767
00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:55,449
ROGER STAHL: Then there's The Recruit.
768
00:33:55,450 --> 00:33:57,729
- You're kidding.
769
00:33:57,730 --> 00:34:02,349
- Applications for the CIA are up tenfold.
770
00:34:02,350 --> 00:34:05,219
- Would I have to kill anyone?
771
00:34:05,220 --> 00:34:07,349
- Would you like to?
772
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:09,539
ROGER STAHL: Not too subtle, right?
773
00:34:09,540 --> 00:34:12,029
But you'd still never guess how large of a role
774
00:34:12,030 --> 00:34:15,089
is played by Chase Brandon, the longtime head of the CIA's
775
00:34:15,090 --> 00:34:16,092
Entertainment Office.
776
00:34:16,094 --> 00:34:17,967
TRICIA JENKINS: And almost nobody knows this,
777
00:34:17,969 --> 00:34:21,599
but Chase Brandon wrote the entire treatment
778
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,197
and like 80 pages of the original draft of The Recruit.
779
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:28,109
And he is not listed as a screenwriter
780
00:34:28,110 --> 00:34:29,849
at all in those credits.
781
00:34:29,850 --> 00:34:33,268
The only thing he is listed as is a technical consultant.
782
00:34:33,270 --> 00:34:37,668
- You have all just stepped through the looking glass.
783
00:34:37,670 --> 00:34:43,355
What you see, what you hear, nothing is what it seems.
784
00:34:43,356 --> 00:34:47,271
[MUSIC PLAYING]
785
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:49,678
ROGER STAHL: Beyond the recruiting pitch itself,
786
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,869
these institutions are also keen to sweep
787
00:34:51,870 --> 00:34:54,987
persistent internal problems under the rug.
788
00:34:54,989 --> 00:34:58,109
The Pentagon is very sensitive about depicting mental health
789
00:34:58,110 --> 00:34:59,529
issues.
790
00:34:59,530 --> 00:35:01,379
For example, they denied Home of the Brave
791
00:35:01,380 --> 00:35:04,469
due to the "vein of suicide, domestic violence, chemical
792
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:06,219
abuse, and depression."
793
00:35:06,220 --> 00:35:08,909
They didn't like the image of vets having a miserable
794
00:35:08,910 --> 00:35:11,639
time readjusting to life.
795
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:12,989
It was unfortunate.
796
00:35:12,990 --> 00:35:14,579
The Pentagon was making it harder
797
00:35:14,580 --> 00:35:16,949
to produce this film exactly when vets
798
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:19,589
needed the public conversation the most.
799
00:35:19,590 --> 00:35:21,419
ANCHOR: Record high military suicide.
800
00:35:21,420 --> 00:35:23,549
SHEPARD SMITH: Military suicides are on the rise.
801
00:35:23,550 --> 00:35:24,966
ROGER STAHL: Over the next decade,
802
00:35:24,967 --> 00:35:27,449
way more military personnel would die by suicide
803
00:35:27,450 --> 00:35:30,419
than combat.
804
00:35:30,420 --> 00:35:33,239
The Office has also worked to downplay any impression
805
00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:37,049
that the military has struggled with institutional racism.
806
00:35:37,050 --> 00:35:39,539
A good example of how they typically approach the issue
807
00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:42,629
is the Laurence Fishburne movie The Tuskegee Airmen.
808
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:44,399
It was based on the real life experiences
809
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,179
of the first African-American air squadron in World War II.
810
00:35:48,180 --> 00:35:50,789
How did the Office deal with the story of racism
811
00:35:50,790 --> 00:35:52,259
in the military?
812
00:35:52,260 --> 00:35:55,289
By containing the racism two a bad apple, of course,
813
00:35:55,290 --> 00:35:59,669
who then has to be dressed down by his superior officer.
814
00:35:59,670 --> 00:36:01,109
This meant also making sure there
815
00:36:01,110 --> 00:36:03,239
was no racism depicted coming from the top
816
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:05,049
of the chain of command.
817
00:36:05,050 --> 00:36:07,679
They reversed characters to make the Senator, rather than
818
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:09,959
the general, the source of the bigotry.
819
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:11,279
- I'm General Stevenson.
820
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,812
This is Senator Conyers.
821
00:36:13,813 --> 00:36:15,479
ROGER STAHL: So with this new storyline,
822
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,271
what about the scene in the original script
823
00:36:17,272 --> 00:36:20,009
where a baseball game breaks out into racist taunts
824
00:36:20,010 --> 00:36:21,539
and a fistfight?
825
00:36:21,540 --> 00:36:24,209
It appears in this scene that race was and remained
826
00:36:24,210 --> 00:36:27,029
a major factor to the troops, which it did not,
827
00:36:27,030 --> 00:36:29,309
the Office declared quite confidently.
828
00:36:29,310 --> 00:36:32,969
So the fight is out of place and has to go.
829
00:36:32,970 --> 00:36:34,859
Maybe the office doesn't get the irony
830
00:36:34,860 --> 00:36:37,619
that its habit of covering up institutional racism
831
00:36:37,620 --> 00:36:40,794
is institutional racism.
832
00:36:43,180 --> 00:36:45,009
Like racism, the Entertainment Office
833
00:36:45,010 --> 00:36:46,509
has done its best to make you forget
834
00:36:46,510 --> 00:36:48,789
all about sexual harassment and assault
835
00:36:48,790 --> 00:36:51,999
in the ranks, which includes a pattern of leaders retaliating
836
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,699
against victims who complain.
837
00:36:54,700 --> 00:36:58,809
The problem first went public in 1991 with the Tailhook scandal.
838
00:36:58,810 --> 00:37:01,059
This is where hundreds of Navy servicemen
839
00:37:01,060 --> 00:37:03,069
assaulted more than 80 servicewomen
840
00:37:03,070 --> 00:37:05,409
at a convention in Las Vegas.
841
00:37:05,410 --> 00:37:08,799
A congressional investigation flagged a Top Gun mentality
842
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,800
as a major factor.
843
00:37:14,650 --> 00:37:16,239
The fallout from Tailhook is what
844
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:19,389
delayed a sequel for so long.
845
00:37:19,390 --> 00:37:21,969
Since then, the Office has treated sexual harassment
846
00:37:21,970 --> 00:37:26,139
and assault more like a PR problem than an actual one.
847
00:37:26,140 --> 00:37:28,359
They denied GI Jane because it dared
848
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,839
to depict a high officer harassing with impunity.
849
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,909
And in more recent years, they have actively
850
00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:36,129
endeavored to whitewash the issue.
851
00:37:36,130 --> 00:37:38,829
They've enlisted their long running partners, Army Wives
852
00:37:38,830 --> 00:37:42,049
and NCIS to run a counter plot line.
853
00:37:42,050 --> 00:37:43,779
The problem in this alternate universe
854
00:37:43,780 --> 00:37:45,939
is the victim, who refuses to admit
855
00:37:45,940 --> 00:37:48,009
that an assault has occurred.
856
00:37:48,010 --> 00:37:50,859
The military leadership is so eager for justice,
857
00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:53,979
though, that they launch an investigation anyway.
858
00:37:53,980 --> 00:37:56,379
- Zero tolerance is no slogan around here, agents.
859
00:37:56,380 --> 00:37:57,609
It's a moral imperative.
860
00:37:57,610 --> 00:37:59,542
If that officer was harmed on this ship,
861
00:37:59,543 --> 00:38:01,209
we'll move heaven and Earth to help you.
862
00:38:01,210 --> 00:38:03,579
- I only wish Farrell had said something at the time.
863
00:38:03,580 --> 00:38:05,199
We could have done something about it.
864
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,059
- We're doing something now.
865
00:38:07,060 --> 00:38:10,337
ROGER STAHL: Given that the Navy reviews every NCIS script, what
866
00:38:10,338 --> 00:38:12,129
would happen if the producers were to drift
867
00:38:12,130 --> 00:38:14,319
from this official plot?
868
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,629
Well at one point, the Navy received a script
869
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:19,329
that more closely resembled what targets had repeatedly
870
00:38:19,330 --> 00:38:22,059
described, harassment by numerous crew members
871
00:38:22,060 --> 00:38:24,189
and unresponsive leadership.
872
00:38:24,190 --> 00:38:26,919
The Entertainment Office sounded the alarm.
873
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,599
A panicked conference call and a day
874
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,109
later, the Navy had revised the entire storyline.
875
00:38:32,110 --> 00:38:33,889
When the episode eventually aired,
876
00:38:33,890 --> 00:38:36,639
it was a tale of sailor bystanders stepping in,
877
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,299
and timely and effective engagement by those in charge.
878
00:38:40,300 --> 00:38:43,659
- A matter as sensitive as this required immediate action.
879
00:38:43,660 --> 00:38:46,599
During our transit, I ordered an investigation.
880
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,119
ROGER STAHL: Even wins over a skeptical detective in the end
881
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,989
after she sees him go the extra mile to nab the perpetrator.
882
00:38:52,990 --> 00:38:57,885
See, no institutionally enabled rape culture here.
883
00:38:57,886 --> 00:39:02,329
[MUSIC PLAYING]
884
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:07,439
Another main job of the Office is
885
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,409
to sell regular Americans on pouring vast resources
886
00:39:10,410 --> 00:39:12,239
into these institutions.
887
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:14,609
All those weapons can get expensive.
888
00:39:14,610 --> 00:39:17,879
Pushing them had always been a staple of old style propaganda
889
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,919
films like The Big Picture series.
890
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:20,969
NARRATOR: One example.
891
00:39:20,970 --> 00:39:23,699
The F-111, the greatest innovation
892
00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:25,882
in aircraft design of recent years.
893
00:39:25,883 --> 00:39:28,049
ROGER STAHL: But over time, the Entertainment Office
894
00:39:28,050 --> 00:39:29,549
took over this function.
895
00:39:29,550 --> 00:39:32,429
The everyday workhorses became those ubiquitous weapons
896
00:39:32,430 --> 00:39:35,039
documentaries on the Discovery, History, and National
897
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,749
Geographic channels.
898
00:39:36,750 --> 00:39:38,489
This kind of boosterism is especially
899
00:39:38,490 --> 00:39:40,949
important for systems like the F-35, which
900
00:39:40,950 --> 00:39:43,529
gained a trillion dollar reputation as the most wasteful
901
00:39:43,530 --> 00:39:45,809
project in Pentagon history.
902
00:39:45,810 --> 00:39:49,229
The goal is normalizing these huge expenditures.
903
00:39:49,230 --> 00:39:51,149
NARRATOR: To remain a superpower,
904
00:39:51,150 --> 00:39:54,119
the US needs to constantly update its technology
905
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,099
and military hardware.
906
00:39:56,100 --> 00:39:57,929
ROGER STAHL: It's all over their notes.
907
00:39:57,930 --> 00:40:00,359
A primary reason for assisting is the opportunity
908
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,399
to showcase these weapons.
909
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,679
Projects like these, they say again and again,
910
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,439
support modernizing the force.
911
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,169
And this means that they're able to show off how sexy,
912
00:40:10,170 --> 00:40:12,839
and how wonderful, and how useful,
913
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,349
and how targeted their new products are,
914
00:40:16,350 --> 00:40:17,849
which means that the public is going
915
00:40:17,850 --> 00:40:22,559
to be less liable to criticize the arms industry as something
916
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,609
that is messy, unpleasant, dark, cruel.
917
00:40:29,335 --> 00:40:30,709
ROGER STAHL: Of course, Hollywood
918
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:33,499
has played a lead role in selling weapons, too.
919
00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:36,079
They rewrote the Hulk so he climbed on an F-22
920
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,119
and rode it into the sky.
921
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,479
They got the F-35 to fly alongside Superman.
922
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,869
And got Ludacris to show off the new Ripsaw vehicle.
923
00:40:44,870 --> 00:40:50,989
6.6 liter V8 DuroMax engine with an M-153 CROWS remotely
924
00:40:50,990 --> 00:40:53,071
operated weapons station on top.
925
00:40:53,072 --> 00:40:54,529
See, the army's developing machines
926
00:40:54,530 --> 00:40:56,699
like this the soldiers can drive from a mile away.
927
00:40:56,700 --> 00:41:00,169
So they can stay safe and alive.
928
00:41:00,170 --> 00:41:02,399
ROGER STAHL: Or consider the Transformers franchise,
929
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,059
which might as well have been a military parade.
930
00:41:05,060 --> 00:41:07,069
The Air Force excitedly listed everything
931
00:41:07,070 --> 00:41:10,519
to be filmed, the army too.
932
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:11,589
MICHAEL BAY: Action.
933
00:41:11,590 --> 00:41:14,379
- What the Air Force has done in this show has shown us
934
00:41:14,380 --> 00:41:18,189
all the good toys, brand new stuff that really hasn't even
935
00:41:18,190 --> 00:41:20,649
been put into the field yet.
936
00:41:20,650 --> 00:41:22,449
MICHAEL BAY: I've always been like some of the first
937
00:41:22,450 --> 00:41:24,039
to shoot military hardware.
938
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,689
In Armageddon, I was the first to shoot the B-2 bomber.
939
00:41:26,690 --> 00:41:28,899
Then this movie was the F-22s.
940
00:41:28,900 --> 00:41:30,849
It's just very fitting that Starscream
941
00:41:30,850 --> 00:41:32,139
was the air commander.
942
00:41:32,140 --> 00:41:34,689
And second in command takes that form
943
00:41:34,690 --> 00:41:38,719
of literally the baddest weapon system in the world right now.
944
00:41:41,240 --> 00:41:42,739
ROGER STAHL: The Iron Man franchise
945
00:41:42,740 --> 00:41:46,099
was an outright celebration of the arms industry.
946
00:41:46,100 --> 00:41:48,899
It started out as the exact opposite.
947
00:41:48,900 --> 00:41:50,539
The original script for the first movie
948
00:41:50,540 --> 00:41:53,719
was all about Tony Stark going to battle against the arms
949
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:56,179
manufacturers, including his own father,
950
00:41:56,180 --> 00:41:57,979
who he says was stealing his ideas
951
00:41:57,980 --> 00:42:01,639
and twisting them into truly destructive weapons.
952
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,979
By the time the film went into production with the DOD,
953
00:42:03,980 --> 00:42:06,289
however, the whole thing was gone.
954
00:42:06,290 --> 00:42:08,942
Co-star Jeff Bridges told the press they didn't have a script
955
00:42:08,943 --> 00:42:10,609
and were getting regular notes from what
956
00:42:10,610 --> 00:42:13,039
he called the suits at Marvel, who
957
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,211
were, of course, getting notes from the brass at the Pentagon.
958
00:42:16,212 --> 00:42:19,069
ANNOUNCER: Today, Tony Stark has changed the face of the weapons
959
00:42:19,070 --> 00:42:22,219
industry by ensuring freedom and protecting
960
00:42:22,220 --> 00:42:25,917
America and her interests around the globe.
961
00:42:25,918 --> 00:42:27,709
ROGER STAHL: When it was all said and done,
962
00:42:27,710 --> 00:42:30,349
Stark had happily inherited his father's business
963
00:42:30,350 --> 00:42:33,299
and become an emissary of the military industrial complex
964
00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:35,300
himself.
965
00:42:36,670 --> 00:42:40,419
Flipping the storyline cleared the runway for all of this.
966
00:42:40,420 --> 00:42:44,629
- B-2 bombers, C-17s, and F-22s, and F-35s, I mean,
967
00:42:44,630 --> 00:42:47,139
you could literally pause the screen and tally it up,
968
00:42:47,140 --> 00:42:49,389
and it would probably come out to a billion and a half
969
00:42:49,390 --> 00:42:51,390
dollars.
970
00:42:56,190 --> 00:42:58,589
ROGER STAHL: On a broader scale, the military and CIA
971
00:42:58,590 --> 00:43:00,329
also want to sell the public on the image
972
00:43:00,330 --> 00:43:03,149
that they are the ones who save the day.
973
00:43:03,150 --> 00:43:06,594
Take the alien invasion film Independence Day.
974
00:43:06,595 --> 00:43:08,219
TRICIA JENKINS: Like, there are some things that they
975
00:43:08,220 --> 00:43:10,886
objected to which had nothing to do with historical accuracy.
976
00:43:10,887 --> 00:43:12,719
One of the things that they were upset about
977
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:15,479
is the guy who ultimately defeats
978
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,499
the aliens is a civilian and is not a military hero.
979
00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:21,479
They wanted the heroes of that film
980
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,774
to have military backgrounds.
981
00:43:24,775 --> 00:43:27,149
They also didn't like how the aliens, even though they're
982
00:43:27,150 --> 00:43:29,249
supposed to have advanced technology,
983
00:43:29,250 --> 00:43:33,349
were able to so thoroughly decimate the American military.
984
00:43:33,350 --> 00:43:35,099
ROGER STAHL: The Office listed the damage,
985
00:43:35,100 --> 00:43:40,439
which included 30 F-18s, one B-2 bomber, and one whole Pentagon.
986
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:42,299
Although they denied the film in the end,
987
00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:45,959
director Roland Emmerich got gun shy about that last one.
988
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,409
So we famously got the Empire State Building, White House,
989
00:43:49,410 --> 00:43:53,529
and Capitol, but not this ultimate showstopper.
990
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,809
Same thing with Rampage where giant mutants attacked
991
00:43:57,810 --> 00:43:59,259
the city.
992
00:43:59,260 --> 00:44:01,529
The Pentagon rejected this one after the filmmakers
993
00:44:01,530 --> 00:44:04,079
failed to incorporate their script notes.
994
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,070
The problem?
995
00:44:05,071 --> 00:44:08,499
The mutants rampage all over the military.
996
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,779
Sci-fi is one thing, but the stakes
997
00:44:12,780 --> 00:44:14,759
go up when it comes to revising the memory
998
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,529
of actual missions gone wrong.
999
00:44:17,530 --> 00:44:20,219
Take the 1993 battle of Mogadishu, Somalia
1000
00:44:20,220 --> 00:44:24,179
that eight years later became the basis for Black Hawk Down.
1001
00:44:24,180 --> 00:44:26,129
At the time, it was universally regarded
1002
00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:28,529
as a debacle, a needless sacrifice
1003
00:44:28,530 --> 00:44:32,219
of 19 American troops, not to mention the slaughter of 1,000
1004
00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:33,364
Somalis.
1005
00:44:33,365 --> 00:44:35,489
- Today, I want to talk with you about our nation's
1006
00:44:35,490 --> 00:44:37,179
military involvement in Somalia.
1007
00:44:37,180 --> 00:44:39,179
ROGER STAHL: Afterward, the Entertainment Office
1008
00:44:39,180 --> 00:44:41,099
was on high alert for anything that
1009
00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:43,019
looked like it in its scripts.
1010
00:44:43,020 --> 00:44:45,719
So for Clear and Present Danger, they worried about a scene
1011
00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:49,499
where Colombian militias overwhelmed US special forces.
1012
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:52,589
"Rangers in Somalia just went through a real world
1013
00:44:52,590 --> 00:44:55,859
fiasco that made the military look ridiculous," they wrote.
1014
00:44:55,860 --> 00:44:58,559
"The DOD is not about to cooperate on a movie that
1015
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,809
does the same thing."
1016
00:45:00,810 --> 00:45:02,579
In this case, they made changes to ensure
1017
00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:05,069
the film would ultimately turn out to be, in their words,
1018
00:45:05,070 --> 00:45:09,009
"more of a commercial for us than damage control."
1019
00:45:09,010 --> 00:45:11,409
But with Black Hawk Down, high level leaders
1020
00:45:11,410 --> 00:45:15,339
saw an opportunity to recast the memory of Somalia altogether.
1021
00:45:15,340 --> 00:45:18,309
- We got full cooperation from the Defense Department
1022
00:45:18,310 --> 00:45:21,169
through two administrations, William Cohen who
1023
00:45:21,170 --> 00:45:22,989
was the outgoing Secretary of Defense
1024
00:45:22,990 --> 00:45:25,569
was a big fan of the book and said
1025
00:45:25,570 --> 00:45:27,729
he would help us in any way to get the movie made.
1026
00:45:27,730 --> 00:45:29,979
ROGER STAHL: All that essential equipment gave the DOD
1027
00:45:29,980 --> 00:45:31,689
tremendous leverage.
1028
00:45:31,690 --> 00:45:33,189
Director Ridley Scott said it would
1029
00:45:33,190 --> 00:45:35,719
have been hard to make the film without it.
1030
00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:37,779
RIDLEY SCOTT: And so we went right to the wire
1031
00:45:37,780 --> 00:45:40,389
in terms of negotiation with the Pentagon
1032
00:45:40,390 --> 00:45:42,549
about their requirements as to how
1033
00:45:42,550 --> 00:45:45,069
they wanted to be perceived during the film.
1034
00:45:45,070 --> 00:45:47,689
But that negotiation took a long time.
1035
00:45:47,690 --> 00:45:49,689
ROGER STAHL: First, the Pentagon negotiated away
1036
00:45:49,690 --> 00:45:51,827
a few unheroic things.
1037
00:45:51,828 --> 00:45:53,619
MATTHEW ALFORD: The original book was actually very good.
1038
00:45:53,620 --> 00:45:56,089
And there was loads of things changed in that.
1039
00:45:56,090 --> 00:45:58,959
But the most obvious thing was that one
1040
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:03,039
of the veterans who came back from Somalia,
1041
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:06,644
he was convicted of sexually assaulting a child.
1042
00:46:06,645 --> 00:46:08,019
ROGER STAHL: It got out that they
1043
00:46:08,020 --> 00:46:11,829
had pressured the filmmakers to change the character's name.
1044
00:46:11,830 --> 00:46:12,760
MICHAEL ALFORD: So they created...
1045
00:46:12,761 --> 00:46:15,399
The only composite character, the only totally fictionalized
1046
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,199
character in that film, was Ewan McGregor.
1047
00:46:19,740 --> 00:46:21,989
ROGER STAHL: With those messy details out of the way,
1048
00:46:21,990 --> 00:46:24,569
all they had to do was focus on the story of the rescue
1049
00:46:24,570 --> 00:46:27,059
and avoid any bigger questions.
1050
00:46:27,060 --> 00:46:29,969
ROBIN ANDERSEN: The filmmakers grabbed victory out
1051
00:46:29,970 --> 00:46:33,179
of the jaws of defeat, a symbolic victory,
1052
00:46:33,180 --> 00:46:35,349
where that film did just that.
1053
00:46:35,350 --> 00:46:39,489
The soldiers say, I don't care about the politics.
1054
00:46:39,490 --> 00:46:43,799
I'm just in it to fight next to the guy beside me.
1055
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,079
And we're not going to leave anybody behind.
1056
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,849
- You know what I think?
1057
00:46:49,850 --> 00:46:52,659
It don't really matter what I think.
1058
00:46:52,660 --> 00:46:55,929
Once that first bullet goes past your head, politics
1059
00:46:55,930 --> 00:46:59,689
and all that shit, just goes right out the window.
1060
00:46:59,690 --> 00:47:02,369
OLIVER STONE: But Somalia was a mess from beginning to end.
1061
00:47:02,370 --> 00:47:05,989
We had... America had three or four abortive missions there
1062
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:07,579
that had not worked before.
1063
00:47:07,580 --> 00:47:10,849
We'd set up a scenario that was like this,
1064
00:47:10,850 --> 00:47:14,179
that the people started to distrust us and hate us.
1065
00:47:14,180 --> 00:47:17,744
And then we covered it all up with this nonsense movie.
1066
00:47:19,460 --> 00:47:23,089
It's a typical whitewash of a military...
1067
00:47:23,090 --> 00:47:26,221
Military corruption, typical.
1068
00:47:26,222 --> 00:47:27,679
ROGER STAHL: From then on, the film
1069
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,989
became a model for restoring public faith
1070
00:47:29,990 --> 00:47:32,699
when overseas interventions go wrong.
1071
00:47:32,700 --> 00:47:34,909
It turns out, you can always rescue history
1072
00:47:34,910 --> 00:47:36,910
with a rescue story.
1073
00:47:39,540 --> 00:47:42,389
The CIA tried it too with Argo.
1074
00:47:42,390 --> 00:47:44,969
The film is based on a rescue that occurred during the Iran
1075
00:47:44,970 --> 00:47:47,939
hostage crisis, how the CIA smuggled Americans
1076
00:47:47,940 --> 00:47:50,759
out by pretending to be a Canadian sci-fi movie
1077
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,801
production company.
1078
00:47:52,802 --> 00:47:54,509
The Entertainment Office had been pushing
1079
00:47:54,510 --> 00:47:56,819
this storyline for a while.
1080
00:47:56,820 --> 00:47:58,919
Five years earlier, the Office had recommended it
1081
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:00,869
to Hollywood and TV producers on what it
1082
00:48:00,870 --> 00:48:03,419
called it's Now Playing page.
1083
00:48:03,420 --> 00:48:06,899
Eventually, Ben Affleck picked it up as director and star.
1084
00:48:06,900 --> 00:48:09,389
He was already in the pipeline, as he had previously
1085
00:48:09,390 --> 00:48:13,859
starred in another CIA sponsored film, The Sum of All Fears.
1086
00:48:13,860 --> 00:48:17,399
The CIA's exact role in Argo had been something of a mystery,
1087
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:18,180
though.
1088
00:48:18,181 --> 00:48:20,849
They took eight years to respond to Matt Alford's
1089
00:48:20,850 --> 00:48:22,769
Freedom of Information request.
1090
00:48:22,770 --> 00:48:24,839
And when we finally got the internal emails,
1091
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,659
they didn't include script negotiations.
1092
00:48:27,660 --> 00:48:31,109
We got a peek into how cozy the relationship was, though.
1093
00:48:31,110 --> 00:48:33,539
The CIA knew it had a keeper.
1094
00:48:33,540 --> 00:48:36,239
"We are hoping to develop a close working relationship
1095
00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:39,299
with the filmmakers on this project," they wrote.
1096
00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:41,429
After his first couple of visits to Langley,
1097
00:48:41,430 --> 00:48:45,689
Affleck was obviously keen to stay in the CIA's good graces.
1098
00:48:45,690 --> 00:48:48,524
"We love the agency and this heroic action.
1099
00:48:48,525 --> 00:48:50,399
And we really want the process of bringing it
1100
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,699
to the big screen to be as real as possible."
1101
00:48:53,700 --> 00:48:56,039
Over the course of this gushing relationship,
1102
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,159
the CIA Public Affairs Office reviewed multiple versions
1103
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:00,509
of the script.
1104
00:49:00,510 --> 00:49:04,949
"The Agency comes off looking very well, they wrote."
1105
00:49:04,950 --> 00:49:07,589
The synergy couldn't have been more perfect.
1106
00:49:07,590 --> 00:49:10,499
The CIA working with Hollywood to tell a story
1107
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:14,459
about how the CIA worked with Hollywood to save the day.
1108
00:49:14,460 --> 00:49:17,849
The irony was thick with scenes like this.
1109
00:49:17,850 --> 00:49:19,709
- The United States government has just
1110
00:49:19,710 --> 00:49:23,349
sanctioned your science fiction movie.
1111
00:49:23,350 --> 00:49:24,263
- Thank you, sir.
1112
00:49:24,264 --> 00:49:25,929
ROGER STAHL: You could say it turned out
1113
00:49:25,930 --> 00:49:28,389
pretty well for both parties.
1114
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:30,699
- And the Oscar goes to...
1115
00:49:30,700 --> 00:49:32,949
ROGER STAHL: Hey, the First Lady of the administration
1116
00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:34,689
that helped produce the movie.
1117
00:49:34,690 --> 00:49:35,932
- Argo.
1118
00:49:35,933 --> 00:49:37,321
Congratulations.
1119
00:49:37,322 --> 00:49:39,287
[CHEERS]
1120
00:49:39,288 --> 00:49:41,079
ROGER STAHL: And hey, it's Jennifer Garner,
1121
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,859
from that other CIA show, Alias.
1122
00:49:44,860 --> 00:49:46,779
Argo was on a whole different level,
1123
00:49:46,780 --> 00:49:50,169
though, reframing history for a new generation.
1124
00:49:50,170 --> 00:49:52,839
Some parts of the story just got buried,
1125
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,149
like the fact that it was the CIA that
1126
00:49:55,150 --> 00:49:58,029
led the coup that set the whole crisis in motion, which they
1127
00:49:58,030 --> 00:50:00,669
finally acknowledged a year later after the documents were
1128
00:50:00,670 --> 00:50:02,109
declassified.
1129
00:50:02,110 --> 00:50:05,049
- That is the coup that toppled Iran's democratically elected
1130
00:50:05,050 --> 00:50:06,047
prime minister.
1131
00:50:06,048 --> 00:50:07,629
ROGER STAHL: And the fact that the CIA
1132
00:50:07,630 --> 00:50:10,119
failed to see the crisis coming.
1133
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,979
TRICIA JENKINS: Even by Tony Mendez's own admission,
1134
00:50:12,980 --> 00:50:16,539
the Iranian hostage crisis was an intelligence failure.
1135
00:50:16,540 --> 00:50:18,609
For those six people, absolutely, the CIA
1136
00:50:18,610 --> 00:50:20,679
was their savior.
1137
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,199
Too bad for the other hostages who remained
1138
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,169
in captivity for over a year.
1139
00:50:26,170 --> 00:50:28,149
ROGER STAHL: 52 of them to be exact.
1140
00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:31,189
And they just kind of fall out of the script.
1141
00:50:31,190 --> 00:50:34,209
TRICIA JENKINS: And so the story is not on the failure.
1142
00:50:34,210 --> 00:50:35,599
It is on the success.
1143
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:39,009
And so Argo really becomes a story of redemption for the CIA
1144
00:50:39,010 --> 00:50:42,789
in the face of one of its biggest intelligence failures.
1145
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:45,633
ROGER STAHL: Another rescue story in the bag.
1146
00:50:45,634 --> 00:50:47,289
- Great work, boys.
1147
00:50:47,290 --> 00:50:48,759
BEN AFFLECK: Yeah, I think probably Hollywood
1148
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,409
is full of CIA agents.
1149
00:50:50,410 --> 00:50:51,962
And we just don't know it.
1150
00:50:51,963 --> 00:50:53,379
And I wouldn't be surprised at all
1151
00:50:53,380 --> 00:50:56,619
to discover that this was extremely common.
1152
00:50:56,620 --> 00:51:00,082
ROGER STAHL: Yeah, I doubt he would be surprised.
1153
00:51:00,083 --> 00:51:04,533
[MUSIC PLAYING]
1154
00:51:06,010 --> 00:51:07,659
I have to confess that at one point,
1155
00:51:07,660 --> 00:51:10,389
I got pretty wrapped up in one of these deals.
1156
00:51:10,390 --> 00:51:12,969
In 2017, the National Geographic Channel
1157
00:51:12,970 --> 00:51:16,659
aired a popular miniseries called The Long Road Home.
1158
00:51:16,660 --> 00:51:19,359
It was about a 2004 ambush of US soldiers
1159
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,789
outside Baghdad in Sadr City.
1160
00:51:21,790 --> 00:51:23,379
They called it Black Sunday.
1161
00:51:23,380 --> 00:51:26,079
And it put the first big crack in the US public's faith
1162
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:27,699
in the occupation.
1163
00:51:27,700 --> 00:51:29,949
Eventually, ABC correspondent Martha Raddatz
1164
00:51:29,950 --> 00:51:31,269
wrote a bestseller about it.
1165
00:51:31,270 --> 00:51:33,669
And it was optioned for a series.
1166
00:51:33,670 --> 00:51:35,769
The army was all over it, opening up
1167
00:51:35,770 --> 00:51:39,251
Fort Hood, Texas for shooting virtually the entire thing.
1168
00:51:39,252 --> 00:51:40,959
In particular, they allowed the producers
1169
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,939
to renovate an urban combat training
1170
00:51:42,940 --> 00:51:45,759
site to look like Sadr City.
1171
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,279
- This is more than three football fields long.
1172
00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,189
It is the largest set working in North America today.
1173
00:51:51,190 --> 00:51:53,659
- Thank you everybody, positions please.
1174
00:51:53,660 --> 00:51:55,659
ROGER STAHL: There you have it, the largest film
1175
00:51:55,660 --> 00:51:59,419
set on the largest military base.
1176
00:51:59,420 --> 00:52:01,449
The promos mentioned the military's involvement.
1177
00:52:01,450 --> 00:52:04,629
So naturally, there was a lot of talk about accuracy.
1178
00:52:04,630 --> 00:52:08,739
- It's been amazing having the Army as our advisor,
1179
00:52:08,740 --> 00:52:12,219
because I always wanted this to be as authentic as possible.
1180
00:52:12,220 --> 00:52:14,499
- National Geographic is famous for telling the truth.
1181
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:17,289
I love that they're making honest, real, hard hitting
1182
00:52:17,290 --> 00:52:19,149
television.
1183
00:52:19,150 --> 00:52:20,769
ROGER STAHL: I wondered how honest.
1184
00:52:20,770 --> 00:52:22,839
So I contacted a couple of vets who had
1185
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,219
been wounded in the firefight.
1186
00:52:25,220 --> 00:52:27,489
I had the idea to rendezvous with them at the base
1187
00:52:27,490 --> 00:52:29,184
and maybe tour the site.
1188
00:52:29,185 --> 00:52:31,809
I thought the army might jump at the chance to show some Purple
1189
00:52:31,810 --> 00:52:33,579
Heart heroes around.
1190
00:52:33,580 --> 00:52:35,979
After all, they had trained at that very facility
1191
00:52:35,980 --> 00:52:37,249
before shipping out.
1192
00:52:37,250 --> 00:52:39,759
And this was their story.
1193
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:41,146
No dice.
1194
00:52:41,170 --> 00:52:43,149
- I guess the first question I have is,
1195
00:52:43,150 --> 00:52:46,419
one, have you talked to the Chief of Public Affairs
1196
00:52:46,420 --> 00:52:48,609
folks out in Los Angeles?
1197
00:52:48,610 --> 00:52:51,339
That needs to be the first stop before we can allow you
1198
00:52:51,340 --> 00:52:52,719
guys to come in and film.
1199
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:56,799
Essentially there has to be a production assistance agreement
1200
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,027
between yourself and the Army.
1201
00:53:00,028 --> 00:53:01,569
ROGER STAHL: If you're curious, yeah,
1202
00:53:01,570 --> 00:53:04,384
I did send them a formal request.
1203
00:53:04,385 --> 00:53:06,009
- Do you think I should tell them there's
1204
00:53:06,010 --> 00:53:08,289
a part in the movie where I talk about them changing
1205
00:53:08,290 --> 00:53:12,189
the parts of movies they don't like?
1206
00:53:12,190 --> 00:53:14,859
I just think they're going to want to change that part.
1207
00:53:14,860 --> 00:53:17,259
(LAUGHS)
1208
00:53:17,260 --> 00:53:18,949
ROGER STAHL: Well, I eventually did tell them.
1209
00:53:18,950 --> 00:53:22,009
And they stopped writing me back.
1210
00:53:22,010 --> 00:53:23,769
In the meantime, the vets and I could only
1211
00:53:23,770 --> 00:53:26,469
meet in Killeen, Texas, just outside of the base,
1212
00:53:26,470 --> 00:53:30,439
hang out in a modest motel, and watch the show together.
1213
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,589
I wondered whether they'd recognize themselves
1214
00:53:32,590 --> 00:53:35,019
and what they went through.
1215
00:53:35,020 --> 00:53:36,769
- It was traumatic.
1216
00:53:36,770 --> 00:53:39,789
It hurt to see this.
1217
00:53:39,790 --> 00:53:41,769
No, it wasn't that.
1218
00:53:41,770 --> 00:53:45,849
It didn't inspire any flashbacks or anything.
1219
00:53:45,850 --> 00:53:48,035
No, it should have.
1220
00:53:48,036 --> 00:53:54,409
(LAUGHS) Had it been done properly,
1221
00:53:54,410 --> 00:53:57,109
maybe I would have gobbled it up and had
1222
00:53:57,110 --> 00:54:00,289
different feelings about it, also intense feelings,
1223
00:54:00,290 --> 00:54:03,059
but not anger.
1224
00:54:03,060 --> 00:54:06,769
- Yeah, I felt like a liar, because the story that I
1225
00:54:06,770 --> 00:54:09,931
have been telling my family was not what was shown on the show.
1226
00:54:09,932 --> 00:54:11,389
ROGER STAHL: For starters, the guys
1227
00:54:11,390 --> 00:54:13,681
mentioned that the show wasn't too kind to their friend
1228
00:54:13,682 --> 00:54:17,509
and fellow GI Tomas Young in the episode devoted to him.
1229
00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:19,759
This was significant, because his story was that
1230
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,919
of the early peace movement.
1231
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:23,719
Paralyzed by a bullet, he went on
1232
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:26,149
to become one of the most visible war protesters,
1233
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:30,109
alongside Cindy Sheehan, whose son died in the same ambush.
1234
00:54:30,110 --> 00:54:31,819
Young's own death became a symbol
1235
00:54:31,820 --> 00:54:35,329
of the anguish and betrayal felt by many vets.
1236
00:54:35,330 --> 00:54:36,829
REPORTER: Unable to swallow pills,
1237
00:54:36,830 --> 00:54:40,399
unable to pull a trigger, unwilling to implicate anyone
1238
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:46,459
else, Thomas plans to starve himself to death.
1239
00:54:46,460 --> 00:54:50,269
ANCHOR: Wounded April Fourth, 2004, his fifth day in Iraq,
1240
00:54:50,270 --> 00:54:53,659
shot in Sadr City, is now writing
1241
00:54:53,660 --> 00:54:55,729
a letter on this 10th anniversary
1242
00:54:55,730 --> 00:54:58,879
called the last letter, a message to George W Bush.
1243
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,579
TOMAS YOUNG: You are each guilty of egregious war
1244
00:55:01,580 --> 00:55:06,869
crimes, of plunder, and finally, of murder,
1245
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:10,159
including the murder of thousands of young Americans,
1246
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:14,714
my fellow veterans, whose future you stole.
1247
00:55:16,860 --> 00:55:19,079
STAHL (to vet): Yeah, how did they depict Young?
1248
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:20,309
- As a pussy.
1249
00:55:20,310 --> 00:55:21,359
And he wasn't.
1250
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:22,769
He was cool.
1251
00:55:22,770 --> 00:55:28,359
He was well read and a cool guy.
1252
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:30,009
Yeah.
1253
00:55:30,010 --> 00:55:35,112
- I think they depicted him as a douche bag.
1254
00:55:35,113 --> 00:55:37,279
- What do you know about it?
1255
00:55:40,730 --> 00:55:43,354
War?
1256
00:55:43,355 --> 00:55:46,967
You ever even been shot at?
1257
00:55:46,968 --> 00:55:49,509
Well, then do me a favor and shut up.
1258
00:55:51,503 --> 00:55:53,169
ROGER STAHL: The show carefully controls
1259
00:55:53,170 --> 00:55:56,199
Young's image, especially his anti-war activities.
1260
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:57,120
We see him protesting.
1261
00:55:57,121 --> 00:55:58,869
But you come away with the sense that he's
1262
00:55:58,870 --> 00:56:01,359
just bitter about having been wounded.
1263
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,179
We never get to hear any of his speeches.
1264
00:56:04,180 --> 00:56:05,739
According to the documents, the Army
1265
00:56:05,740 --> 00:56:09,309
even vetted each of the protest signs' slogans.
1266
00:56:09,310 --> 00:56:14,149
And of course, they completely avoid mentioning his suicide.
1267
00:56:14,150 --> 00:56:15,379
But there's more.
1268
00:56:15,380 --> 00:56:18,019
The show also went to work correcting any impression
1269
00:56:18,020 --> 00:56:20,959
that Black Sunday was a strategic blunder.
1270
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:22,729
This was curious, because in the book,
1271
00:56:22,730 --> 00:56:25,519
it's clear that command failed to anticipate the uprising
1272
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,559
and may have provoked it.
1273
00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:30,619
They also failed to anticipate the need for armored equipment.
1274
00:56:30,620 --> 00:56:33,049
Scores of soldiers had to head into the firefight
1275
00:56:33,050 --> 00:56:36,949
in unarmored Humvees and fish in a barrel supply trucks.
1276
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:39,619
But the show lets the man in charge, Battalion Commander
1277
00:56:39,620 --> 00:56:42,049
Gary Volesky, entirely off the hook
1278
00:56:42,050 --> 00:56:44,059
and even makes him the hero.
1279
00:56:44,060 --> 00:56:46,399
The series puts him where he wasn't, in a Humvee
1280
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:49,369
at the vulnerable front of the rescue convoy.
1281
00:56:49,370 --> 00:56:50,959
This was a spot that, in reality,
1282
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:52,729
had been occupied by Captain George
1283
00:56:52,730 --> 00:56:54,859
Lewis, a big part of the book.
1284
00:56:54,860 --> 00:56:58,339
Lewis disappears from the story entirely.
1285
00:56:58,340 --> 00:57:01,029
- How are we supposed to turn?
1286
00:57:01,030 --> 00:57:04,689
DUNCAN KOEBRICH: I wrote to one of my buddies about it.
1287
00:57:04,690 --> 00:57:09,279
I said, I think they're going to put Colonel Volesky in Captain
1288
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:10,599
Lewis's spot.
1289
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:13,179
And he said, that would be a serious deviation
1290
00:57:13,180 --> 00:57:14,409
from the book.
1291
00:57:14,410 --> 00:57:18,159
And then the next episode aired, and sure enough, he
1292
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:23,139
gives a speech in a motor pool and climbs in and leads us
1293
00:57:23,140 --> 00:57:27,979
from the front, which he did not.
1294
00:57:29,908 --> 00:57:31,699
ROGER STAHL: Turns out, Volesky's character
1295
00:57:31,700 --> 00:57:34,849
does a lot of valorous things up there.
1296
00:57:34,850 --> 00:57:40,729
DUNCAN KOEBRICH: I don't know how involved General Volesky was...
1297
00:57:40,730 --> 00:57:44,209
This is part of why I want to hear his thoughts on being
1298
00:57:44,210 --> 00:57:51,729
depicted, imbued with the valor of Captain Lewis.
1299
00:57:51,730 --> 00:57:54,129
ROGER STAHL: It was a question on my mind, too.
1300
00:57:54,130 --> 00:57:56,739
It seemed likely that he'd played some role in the show's
1301
00:57:56,740 --> 00:57:57,759
development.
1302
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,179
There he is on set, telling everyone to break a leg.
1303
00:58:01,180 --> 00:58:04,329
And it just so happens that he served as Chief of Army Public
1304
00:58:04,330 --> 00:58:07,509
Affairs during a critical period between the first script
1305
00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:11,229
reviews and the show's broadcast.
1306
00:58:11,230 --> 00:58:13,569
There was one more thing gnawing at me.
1307
00:58:13,570 --> 00:58:16,479
Remember Captain Lewis, whom Volesky replaced in the show
1308
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:18,921
at the front of the rescue convoy?
1309
00:58:18,922 --> 00:58:20,379
The guys mentioned that Volesky had
1310
00:58:20,380 --> 00:58:22,839
made him the primary scapegoat after the ambush
1311
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:24,969
and relieved him of duty.
1312
00:58:24,970 --> 00:58:27,369
- When he looked at it as a bad thing in the army,
1313
00:58:27,370 --> 00:58:29,229
he lost his job for it.
1314
00:58:29,230 --> 00:58:31,839
But now, to show civilians of it,
1315
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:36,086
now something heroic, something good.
1316
00:58:36,087 --> 00:58:38,169
ROGER STAHL: I had to track Lewis down and ask him
1317
00:58:38,170 --> 00:58:39,489
about all this.
1318
00:58:39,490 --> 00:58:41,379
He was working for the Army as a civilian
1319
00:58:41,380 --> 00:58:43,239
at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.
1320
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:45,069
He confirmed that Volesky had indeed
1321
00:58:45,070 --> 00:58:46,899
removed him from his post.
1322
00:58:46,900 --> 00:58:48,489
But what did he think about Volesky
1323
00:58:48,490 --> 00:58:52,389
taking his place in the convoy on the show?
1324
00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:55,336
- Yeah, I don't know why they did that.
1325
00:58:55,337 --> 00:58:57,669
It doesn't make much sense to have a battalion commander
1326
00:58:57,670 --> 00:59:00,447
leading a convoy of a company.
1327
00:59:00,448 --> 00:59:01,989
I mean, that's a pretty simple thing.
1328
00:59:01,990 --> 00:59:04,191
I think most people who have any military experience
1329
00:59:04,192 --> 00:59:05,649
would say, wait a sec, that doesn't
1330
00:59:05,650 --> 00:59:07,739
make a whole lot of sense.
1331
00:59:07,740 --> 00:59:10,009
ROGER STAHL: And what would he want to say to Volesky?
1332
00:59:10,010 --> 00:59:11,979
- Yeah, I'm just wondering how it happened
1333
00:59:11,980 --> 00:59:16,029
and whether he had any knowledge or involvement in it.
1334
00:59:16,030 --> 00:59:18,289
And I hope he didn't.
1335
00:59:20,340 --> 00:59:25,114
I mean, because if he did, I mean it'd completely trash
1336
00:59:25,115 --> 00:59:27,689
any respect I had for him.
1337
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:36,509
TRAVIS WALKER: I don't think the blunder came with Captain Lewis...
1338
00:59:36,510 --> 00:59:40,179
Was one who took the brunt of it, who got relieved of duty.
1339
00:59:40,180 --> 00:59:44,289
I think the blunder came from way up top, because I mean,
1340
00:59:44,290 --> 00:59:47,790
we didn't have armored vehicles.
1341
00:59:47,791 --> 00:59:50,379
Some guys had armor that didn't fit.
1342
00:59:50,380 --> 00:59:53,679
Some guys... it was just a total...
1343
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:55,179
DUNCAN KOEBRICH: Mechanized infantry
1344
00:59:55,180 --> 00:59:56,469
against a supply truck.
1345
00:59:56,470 --> 01:00:00,579
- We didn't do anything that we trained for.
1346
01:00:00,580 --> 01:00:01,629
DUNCAN KOEBRICH: Yeah.
1347
01:00:01,630 --> 01:00:03,999
ROGER STAHL: That's not the story we got, though.
1348
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,099
We didn't see those in charge needlessly
1349
01:00:06,100 --> 01:00:08,109
sacrificing the lives of these soldiers
1350
01:00:08,110 --> 01:00:11,409
or Young's fight to make sure it doesn't happen again.
1351
01:00:11,410 --> 01:00:15,489
It was a story of a good war and a misguided peace movement.
1352
01:00:15,490 --> 01:00:17,949
It was a story of enemies who come out of nowhere
1353
01:00:17,950 --> 01:00:20,769
and a battalion commander who puts his own life on the line
1354
01:00:20,770 --> 01:00:22,989
to get his guys back.
1355
01:00:22,990 --> 01:00:26,019
That's how Black Sunday goes from a black eye to something
1356
01:00:26,020 --> 01:00:29,244
more like Black Hawk Down.
1357
01:00:29,245 --> 01:00:31,869
DUNCAN KOEBRICH: I have to wonder, OK, why are they
1358
01:00:31,870 --> 01:00:32,989
doing this?
1359
01:00:32,990 --> 01:00:35,379
Why are they depicting these scenes
1360
01:00:35,380 --> 01:00:40,169
that contradict what happened?
1361
01:00:40,170 --> 01:00:42,809
I don't think that's creative license.
1362
01:00:42,810 --> 01:00:46,448
I think that's a cover-up.
1363
01:00:46,449 --> 01:00:50,899
[MUSIC PLAYING]
1364
01:00:52,293 --> 01:00:53,959
ROGER STAHL: There's still one big issue
1365
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:55,429
that we haven't touched.
1366
01:00:55,430 --> 01:00:58,339
What about certain unsavory historical realities
1367
01:00:58,340 --> 01:01:01,819
that the CIA and Pentagon would rather keep tucked away?
1368
01:01:01,820 --> 01:01:03,436
Consider war crimes.
1369
01:01:03,437 --> 01:01:05,269
In short, they want you to know that there's
1370
01:01:05,270 --> 01:01:07,379
nothing to see here.
1371
01:01:07,380 --> 01:01:09,649
For example, the CIA has always been
1372
01:01:09,650 --> 01:01:12,289
sensitive about its associations with torture.
1373
01:01:12,290 --> 01:01:15,469
For a long time, it was the number one showstopper,
1374
01:01:15,470 --> 01:01:16,455
no joke.
1375
01:01:16,456 --> 01:01:18,079
MATTHEW ALFORD: So in Meet the Parents,
1376
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:22,849
for example, Ben Stiller walks into Robert De Niro's office...
1377
01:01:22,850 --> 01:01:25,549
Robert De Niro is the CIA character.
1378
01:01:25,550 --> 01:01:29,599
And in the original script, he is
1379
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:33,769
meant to see CIA torture manuals on the desk
1380
01:01:33,770 --> 01:01:35,974
all around, as a way of...
1381
01:01:35,975 --> 01:01:37,049
As part of the script.
1382
01:01:37,050 --> 01:01:39,379
It's a way of making Robert De Niro's character
1383
01:01:39,380 --> 01:01:42,169
look frightening.
1384
01:01:42,170 --> 01:01:44,224
However, the CIA itself did not like this.
1385
01:01:44,225 --> 01:01:46,099
And because they were consulting on the film,
1386
01:01:46,100 --> 01:01:47,629
they asked for it to be changed.
1387
01:01:47,630 --> 01:01:50,419
And so that's why when Ben Stiller goes
1388
01:01:50,420 --> 01:01:54,919
into that office in the finished film,
1389
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:59,749
it's just pictures of Robert De Niro meeting famous people
1390
01:01:59,750 --> 01:02:02,009
like President Clinton.
1391
01:02:03,620 --> 01:02:06,221
It's watered down, basically.
1392
01:02:06,222 --> 01:02:07,929
- Looking for something, Greg?
1393
01:02:07,930 --> 01:02:09,288
- Oh.
1394
01:02:09,290 --> 01:02:11,719
ROGER STAHL: Things changed after 9/11, though.
1395
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:13,969
The CIA teamed up with shows like 24,
1396
01:02:13,970 --> 01:02:17,929
which did depict torture, lots of it,
1397
01:02:17,930 --> 01:02:21,979
but as a justified and effective measure to keep America safe.
1398
01:02:21,980 --> 01:02:24,649
- You got information, Paul, I need it now.
1399
01:02:24,650 --> 01:02:26,899
ROGER STAHL: By the time Zero Dark Thirty arrived,
1400
01:02:26,900 --> 01:02:30,679
the CIA's use of torture was an established controversy.
1401
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:32,659
The red flags went up when it went public
1402
01:02:32,660 --> 01:02:35,779
that the Obama administration was involved in the film.
1403
01:02:35,780 --> 01:02:38,779
NEWS ANCHOR: What has some on Capitol Hill so angry?
1404
01:02:38,780 --> 01:02:41,029
- You believe, when watching this movie,
1405
01:02:41,030 --> 01:02:44,209
that waterboarding and torture leads
1406
01:02:44,210 --> 01:02:48,719
to information that leads then to the elimination of Osama bin
1407
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:49,220
Laden.
1408
01:02:49,221 --> 01:02:51,337
That's not the case.
1409
01:02:51,338 --> 01:02:53,629
ROGER STAHL: What we do know is that behind the scenes,
1410
01:02:53,630 --> 01:02:55,639
the CIA was busy leveraging the film
1411
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:59,709
not only to justify US torture, but to soften its image.
1412
01:02:59,710 --> 01:03:01,459
The agency demanded that the screenwriters
1413
01:03:01,460 --> 01:03:04,999
remove the torture dogs, despite the fact that the CIA did
1414
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,369
use dogs routinely.
1415
01:03:07,370 --> 01:03:09,199
And they politely asked that the script
1416
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:13,319
keep to those torture techniques already in the public domain.
1417
01:03:15,050 --> 01:03:16,849
The Pentagon has also done its best
1418
01:03:16,850 --> 01:03:19,699
to suppress any suggestion of war crimes.
1419
01:03:19,700 --> 01:03:22,038
For example, in the original script for the World War II
1420
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:23,989
movie Windtalkers, there was a character
1421
01:03:23,990 --> 01:03:26,959
called The Dentist who pulls gold teeth from the mouths
1422
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:28,969
of dead Japanese soldiers.
1423
01:03:28,970 --> 01:03:31,909
The Marine entertainment officer wanted it gone.
1424
01:03:31,910 --> 01:03:35,269
"The dentist character displays distinctly un-Marine behavior,"
1425
01:03:35,270 --> 01:03:36,819
he wrote.
1426
01:03:36,820 --> 01:03:39,069
But it's no secret that this kind of racism
1427
01:03:39,070 --> 01:03:42,399
fueled trophy taking was commonplace in the Pacific.
1428
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,288
Eugene Sledge describes the practice
1429
01:03:44,290 --> 01:03:47,469
as widespread in his famous memoir, which is required
1430
01:03:47,470 --> 01:03:50,109
reading for Marine officers.
1431
01:03:50,110 --> 01:03:52,389
Gold teeth were the least of it, too.
1432
01:03:52,390 --> 01:03:55,389
Soldiers raided bodies for bones and ears.
1433
01:03:55,390 --> 01:03:57,009
They developed techniques for boiling
1434
01:03:57,010 --> 01:03:59,319
of flesh off of severed heads.
1435
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,809
These grim souvenirs flooded the home front,
1436
01:04:01,810 --> 01:04:05,329
even showing up in Life Magazine.
1437
01:04:05,330 --> 01:04:07,079
But the Marine Office didn't want the film
1438
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:08,729
to bring any of that up.
1439
01:04:08,730 --> 01:04:11,038
Phil Strub at the Pentagon concurred.
1440
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,699
"Stealing gold teeth, yep, has to go."
1441
01:04:14,700 --> 01:04:16,700
So it went.
1442
01:04:18,510 --> 01:04:21,512
Lone Survivor got the treatment, too.
1443
01:04:21,513 --> 01:04:23,679
There's the pivotal scene where the platoon captures
1444
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:25,649
some Afghani goat herders and tries
1445
01:04:25,650 --> 01:04:28,259
to decide what to do with them.
1446
01:04:28,260 --> 01:04:30,509
According to Marcus Luttrell's firsthand account,
1447
01:04:30,510 --> 01:04:32,279
the commanding officer argued that they
1448
01:04:32,279 --> 01:04:34,949
should kill them quietly, hide the bodies,
1449
01:04:34,950 --> 01:04:37,229
and keep a pact of silence.
1450
01:04:37,230 --> 01:04:39,119
He eventually put it to a vote, though.
1451
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,269
And in a split decision, the group let them go.
1452
01:04:42,270 --> 01:04:45,239
The Pentagon didn't like this image of military leaders
1453
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,519
advocating war crimes and had a long discussion
1454
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:49,079
about changing it.
1455
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:51,449
In the final version, it's the commanding officer
1456
01:04:51,450 --> 01:04:55,589
who unequivocally orders the group to let the captives go.
1457
01:04:55,590 --> 01:04:59,038
- This is not a vote.
1458
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:00,929
This is what we're going to do.
1459
01:05:00,930 --> 01:05:02,309
ROGER STAHL: How would the Office
1460
01:05:02,310 --> 01:05:04,409
justify twisting the story like this
1461
01:05:04,410 --> 01:05:06,929
if you were to, say, put them on the spot?
1462
01:05:06,930 --> 01:05:10,679
Well, as luck would have it, I had the chance to ask.
1463
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:12,419
The Navy held a webinar about how
1464
01:05:12,420 --> 01:05:14,639
it works with Hollywood, a sort of advertisement
1465
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,199
for its services.
1466
01:05:16,200 --> 01:05:18,929
Dennis Moynihan was the chief information officer
1467
01:05:18,930 --> 01:05:21,239
while Lone Survivor was in production.
1468
01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:23,309
He'd been talking about how authentic they
1469
01:05:23,310 --> 01:05:25,079
were able to make it.
1470
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:27,419
I couldn't believe the moderator picked up my question.
1471
01:05:27,420 --> 01:05:31,049
But being a military ethics professor, he took an interest.
1472
01:05:31,050 --> 01:05:32,609
Trigger warning, there's going to be
1473
01:05:32,610 --> 01:05:34,769
a fair amount of squirming.
1474
01:05:34,770 --> 01:05:35,700
- I have one more.
1475
01:05:35,701 --> 01:05:38,849
This is an interesting one, too.
1476
01:05:38,850 --> 01:05:42,629
And this is a question for you, Admiral Moynihan.
1477
01:05:42,630 --> 01:05:44,939
"How does the military deal..." and this
1478
01:05:44,940 --> 01:05:48,509
is Roger Stahl, by the way, providing this question.
1479
01:05:48,510 --> 01:05:53,439
"How does the military deal with the suggestion of war crimes?
1480
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:55,739
I'm thinking about Marcus Luttrell's book,
1481
01:05:55,740 --> 01:05:59,459
where the CO suggests they kill the captured goat herders.
1482
01:05:59,460 --> 01:06:03,159
This suggestion goes missing from the film.
1483
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:06,359
This change seems like it compromises
1484
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,306
the principle of authenticity."
1485
01:06:08,307 --> 01:06:10,389
What do you think of that?
1486
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:21,409
- Look, it gets to, again, a lot of the things
1487
01:06:21,410 --> 01:06:22,579
that we talked about.
1488
01:06:22,580 --> 01:06:25,639
Does it reflect well on the military?
1489
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:27,349
Can it be used for recruiting?
1490
01:06:27,350 --> 01:06:31,009
And can people like David, and in this case, Peter, still
1491
01:06:31,010 --> 01:06:33,149
tell a credible story.
1492
01:06:33,150 --> 01:06:38,569
So is everything that ever happened in that situation
1493
01:06:38,570 --> 01:06:40,429
reported on included in the movie?
1494
01:06:40,430 --> 01:06:43,159
No, it's not.
1495
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:44,899
But I think that's OK.
1496
01:06:44,900 --> 01:06:49,939
Because in the end, you got a very credible product
1497
01:06:49,940 --> 01:06:52,279
that certainly, the service, I think was proud of,
1498
01:06:52,279 --> 01:06:54,839
and I think that Peter was proud of as well.
1499
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:57,319
So every detail, absolutely not, for all the
1500
01:06:57,320 --> 01:07:00,229
reasons that we talked about before.
1501
01:07:00,230 --> 01:07:03,439
But I don't have a problem with that.
1502
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:04,729
- OK, good.
1503
01:07:04,730 --> 01:07:06,169
And I have a question for the...
1504
01:07:06,170 --> 01:07:10,080
ROGER STAHL: Yeah, of course, not every detail.
1505
01:07:11,690 --> 01:07:13,564
What about crimes of aggression,
1506
01:07:13,565 --> 01:07:15,804
like overthrowing foreign governments?
1507
01:07:15,805 --> 01:07:17,929
Well, in recent years, you see a pattern of support
1508
01:07:17,930 --> 01:07:21,169
that normalizes these kinds of interventions.
1509
01:07:21,170 --> 01:07:24,419
Of course, you have Iron Man running ops in Afghanistan.
1510
01:07:24,420 --> 01:07:27,019
But you also have The Suicide Squad.
1511
01:07:27,020 --> 01:07:30,499
Here, the US military sends in a team of B-list superheroes
1512
01:07:30,500 --> 01:07:33,659
to overthrow a fictional Latin American government.
1513
01:07:33,660 --> 01:07:36,559
So a long history of illegal US military action
1514
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:39,859
in Central and South America ends up as not much more
1515
01:07:39,860 --> 01:07:41,939
than a punch line.
1516
01:07:44,460 --> 01:07:48,089
Or take Jack Ryan, the most popular series on Amazon Prime
1517
01:07:48,090 --> 01:07:49,449
to date.
1518
01:07:49,450 --> 01:07:52,529
Season two got off with a bang by demonizing Venezuela,
1519
01:07:52,529 --> 01:07:55,204
a longtime US foreign policy target.
1520
01:07:55,205 --> 01:07:57,329
- Your concern is that the Russians are secretly
1521
01:07:57,330 --> 01:07:58,852
selling weapons to Venezuela?
1522
01:07:58,853 --> 01:07:59,894
It would fit a pattern.
1523
01:07:59,895 --> 01:08:01,561
[MUSIC - "FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH"]
1524
01:08:01,562 --> 01:08:04,329
SINGING: It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound?
1525
01:08:04,330 --> 01:08:07,059
- This ends up in the news, it's just going to cause panic.
1526
01:08:07,060 --> 01:08:08,649
- A nuclear Venezuela you will not
1527
01:08:08,650 --> 01:08:11,439
hear about in the news, because we'll already be dead.
1528
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:13,419
ROGER STAHL: The central plot is the CIA trying
1529
01:08:13,420 --> 01:08:15,106
to tip a Venezuelan election.
1530
01:08:15,130 --> 01:08:18,359
SINGING: There's something happening here.
1531
01:08:18,950 --> 01:08:20,898
ROGER STAHL: The agency seeks to topple a dictator
1532
01:08:20,899 --> 01:08:23,148
and put a liberal, populist, human rights
1533
01:08:23,149 --> 01:08:25,639
candidate into power.
1534
01:08:28,131 --> 01:08:30,648
The thing is, something was actually happening there
1535
01:08:30,649 --> 01:08:32,389
in Venezuela at the time.
1536
01:08:32,390 --> 01:08:34,969
US foreign policy leaders were doing their best
1537
01:08:34,970 --> 01:08:38,778
to delegitimize an election by stoking an insurrection.
1538
01:08:38,779 --> 01:08:40,908
But unlike in the show, their favorite candidate
1539
01:08:40,910 --> 01:08:45,169
was less populist and more the empire friendly kind.
1540
01:08:45,170 --> 01:08:47,778
So with CIA and DOD help, you might
1541
01:08:47,779 --> 01:08:51,379
say that Jack Ryan put a pretty face on the whole operation
1542
01:08:51,380 --> 01:08:52,818
in real time.
1543
01:08:52,818 --> 01:08:55,158
- My character is Gloria Bonalde.
1544
01:08:55,160 --> 01:09:01,038
It's an amazing character because she's a family woman.
1545
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,618
And she's not very interested in politics.
1546
01:09:07,100 --> 01:09:08,599
ROGER STAHL: The Pentagon also wants
1547
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:12,679
you to forget all about certain policies of mass destruction.
1548
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:15,438
Consider Agent Orange in Vietnam.
1549
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:17,839
This was a vast toxic spraying program
1550
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:20,478
designed to kill the jungle and make Vietnamese resistance
1551
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:22,429
fighters easier to bomb.
1552
01:09:22,430 --> 01:09:26,176
It poisoned a whole country, including many US troops.
1553
01:09:26,178 --> 01:09:28,219
One of these poisoned vets wrote a book about it,
1554
01:09:28,220 --> 01:09:30,011
along with his father, who happened to have
1555
01:09:30,011 --> 01:09:32,009
been in charge of the spraying.
1556
01:09:32,010 --> 01:09:33,959
Eventually, a script for a TV movie
1557
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:35,938
landed on the Pentagon's desk.
1558
01:09:35,939 --> 01:09:37,499
You guessed it.
1559
01:09:37,500 --> 01:09:39,658
The movie is "inflammatory," they wrote.
1560
01:09:39,660 --> 01:09:42,719
Besides, "the exposure of most Vietnam veterans to herbicide
1561
01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:45,118
orange was not very great."
1562
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:47,639
Mind you, this was three years after Agent Orange
1563
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:50,099
manufacturers had paid out a huge class action
1564
01:09:50,100 --> 01:09:54,509
settlement in a case that drew out over 100 medical studies.
1565
01:09:54,510 --> 01:09:56,639
Luckily, the film got made in the end.
1566
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:58,739
Without it, throngs of suffering vets
1567
01:09:58,740 --> 01:10:02,549
would have remained invisible for much longer.
1568
01:10:02,550 --> 01:10:04,799
As time went on, it also became clear
1569
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:07,709
that Agent Orange was having near genocidal effects
1570
01:10:07,710 --> 01:10:09,509
on the Vietnamese population.
1571
01:10:09,510 --> 01:10:11,909
REPORTER: An epidemic of birth defects, brain damage,
1572
01:10:11,910 --> 01:10:14,909
and rare cancers still affecting hundreds of thousands
1573
01:10:14,910 --> 01:10:17,119
of Vietnamese today.
1574
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:18,869
ROGER STAHL: For the Entertainment Office,
1575
01:10:18,870 --> 01:10:21,359
any reference to Agent Orange was a problem,
1576
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:24,389
even if the program's codename appeared years later
1577
01:10:24,390 --> 01:10:28,046
in some comic book movie.
1578
01:10:28,047 --> 01:10:29,129
MATTHEW ALFORD: There was an Operation...
1579
01:10:29,130 --> 01:10:34,719
Operation Ranch Hand was designed to capture the Hulk.
1580
01:10:37,809 --> 01:10:41,019
But the Pentagon didn't like it, because of course, Operation
1581
01:10:41,020 --> 01:10:46,209
Ranch Hand was the name of a real operation using chemicals
1582
01:10:46,210 --> 01:10:47,799
in Vietnam.
1583
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,889
So they were trying to avoid any kind of association
1584
01:10:50,890 --> 01:10:54,109
with any of these sorts of things.
1585
01:10:54,110 --> 01:10:57,309
- I'm requesting a National Command Authority Override.
1586
01:10:57,309 --> 01:11:00,429
Angry Man is unsecure.
1587
01:11:00,430 --> 01:11:01,809
MATTHEW ALFORD: You could call it petty.
1588
01:11:01,809 --> 01:11:03,639
But in a way, it's just... it's the Pentagon
1589
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:07,669
operating like a slickly oiled PR machine.
1590
01:11:07,670 --> 01:11:11,049
But it's a slickly oiled PR machine that is not just
1591
01:11:11,050 --> 01:11:12,489
advertising toothpaste.
1592
01:11:12,490 --> 01:11:15,068
It's advertising the most violent and powerful
1593
01:11:15,070 --> 01:11:17,989
organizations on the planet.
1594
01:11:20,970 --> 01:11:24,489
ROGER STAHL: The Office is also touchy about nuclear weapons.
1595
01:11:24,490 --> 01:11:25,949
There's a long history of rejecting
1596
01:11:25,950 --> 01:11:30,359
movies that suggest they might not entirely be under control.
1597
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:32,699
Take one from the Cold War, The Day After,
1598
01:11:32,700 --> 01:11:35,818
which envisioned the outcome of a nuclear exchange.
1599
01:11:35,820 --> 01:11:39,159
It happened to be the highest rated TV movie in history.
1600
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:42,509
Nearly half the US population tuned in.
1601
01:11:42,510 --> 01:11:44,429
President Reagan even watched it.
1602
01:11:44,430 --> 01:11:46,859
He wrote in his diary that it left a powerful impression
1603
01:11:46,860 --> 01:11:47,360
on him.
1604
01:11:47,361 --> 01:11:51,439
And its influence led directly to nuclear disarmament talks.
1605
01:11:51,440 --> 01:11:53,149
The Pentagon denied this one because it
1606
01:11:53,150 --> 01:11:55,999
didn't like the image of an accidental nuclear war,
1607
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,189
a skirmish that gets out of control.
1608
01:11:58,190 --> 01:11:59,809
They wanted it to be crystal clear
1609
01:11:59,809 --> 01:12:01,818
that the Soviets started it.
1610
01:12:01,820 --> 01:12:04,669
They had a problem with this scene in particular.
1611
01:12:04,670 --> 01:12:07,627
- Well, maybe they'll contain it.
1612
01:12:07,628 --> 01:12:09,919
After all, I've still got symphony tickets for tonight.
1613
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:12,377
- The thing that bothers me is that damn launch on warning.
1614
01:12:12,378 --> 01:12:13,190
- What's that?
1615
01:12:13,191 --> 01:12:14,809
- That's when one side tells the other
1616
01:12:14,809 --> 01:12:16,339
that they're going to fire their missiles as soon as they
1617
01:12:16,340 --> 01:12:18,739
think the other guy's missiles are already on the way.
1618
01:12:18,740 --> 01:12:21,318
- Use them or lose them.
1619
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:23,359
ROGER STAHL: The Pentagon wanted this out.
1620
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:26,809
"We do not have a launch on warning policy," they wrote.
1621
01:12:26,809 --> 01:12:30,539
"And the public should not be misled that we do."
1622
01:12:30,540 --> 01:12:32,479
But they did.
1623
01:12:32,480 --> 01:12:34,818
Launch on warning was an official policy
1624
01:12:34,820 --> 01:12:36,799
in The Single Integrated Operational Plan
1625
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:38,719
beginning in 1979.
1626
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,749
And because of it, the US came dangerously close to launching
1627
01:12:41,750 --> 01:12:43,719
in a few occasions.
1628
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,629
Thankfully, the filmmakers stood their ground.
1629
01:12:46,630 --> 01:12:48,759
Had the Pentagon successfully changed the script
1630
01:12:48,760 --> 01:12:50,709
to lay all fault at the feet of the Russians,
1631
01:12:50,710 --> 01:12:54,693
the film might have served to drive nuclear buildup instead.
1632
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,899
The Pentagon's view of nukes has reshaped entire franchises.
1633
01:13:00,900 --> 01:13:02,429
Consider Godzilla.
1634
01:13:02,430 --> 01:13:04,829
The monster began as an explicit allegory
1635
01:13:04,830 --> 01:13:07,259
for the US nuclear bombing of Japan.
1636
01:13:07,260 --> 01:13:09,539
And these critical associations held all the way
1637
01:13:09,540 --> 01:13:13,469
through the 1998 version with Matthew Broderick.
1638
01:13:13,470 --> 01:13:16,499
By 2014, though, the DOD was fully involved.
1639
01:13:16,500 --> 01:13:18,659
So things had to change.
1640
01:13:18,660 --> 01:13:20,249
The nuclear sub one of the monsters
1641
01:13:20,250 --> 01:13:21,869
carries off into the jungle, they
1642
01:13:21,870 --> 01:13:23,849
switched that from American to Russian,
1643
01:13:23,850 --> 01:13:25,849
as not to give the impression that we could ever
1644
01:13:25,850 --> 01:13:28,919
lose control of our arsenal.
1645
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:30,896
- We located your Russian sub.
1646
01:13:30,897 --> 01:13:32,729
ROGER STAHL: The whole attitude toward nukes
1647
01:13:32,730 --> 01:13:34,289
had to change, too.
1648
01:13:34,290 --> 01:13:36,239
There was a scene in the original script where
1649
01:13:36,240 --> 01:13:38,459
one of the characters tells a harrowing story
1650
01:13:38,460 --> 01:13:41,789
about his grandfather surviving the bombing of Hiroshima.
1651
01:13:41,790 --> 01:13:44,019
The Office wanted it gone.
1652
01:13:44,020 --> 01:13:46,529
"If this is an apology or questioning the decision
1653
01:13:46,530 --> 01:13:49,109
to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that
1654
01:13:49,110 --> 01:13:51,419
will be a showstopper for us."
1655
01:13:51,420 --> 01:13:54,269
So we got this speech instead.
1656
01:13:54,270 --> 01:13:56,129
- The arrogance of man is thinking
1657
01:13:56,130 --> 01:14:01,206
nature is in our control, and not the other way around.
1658
01:14:01,207 --> 01:14:02,289
ROGER STAHL: There's more.
1659
01:14:02,290 --> 01:14:03,939
The bomb goes from being the threat
1660
01:14:03,940 --> 01:14:05,949
to helping solve the problem.
1661
01:14:05,950 --> 01:14:07,869
It turns out, the nukes weren't the monsters
1662
01:14:07,870 --> 01:14:10,599
but were actually being used to blow up monsters back
1663
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:12,019
in the day.
1664
01:14:12,020 --> 01:14:15,019
- All those nuclear bomb tests in the '50s.
1665
01:14:18,010 --> 01:14:19,679
Not tests.
1666
01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:23,159
- They were trying to kill it.
1667
01:14:23,160 --> 01:14:26,459
ROGER STAHL: And they were still our best hope.
1668
01:14:26,460 --> 01:14:28,559
Beautiful, isn't it?
1669
01:14:28,559 --> 01:14:30,959
Godzilla was different after this.
1670
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:33,839
The 2019 version didn't have DOD help.
1671
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:37,829
But it nevertheless stuck with the nukes as heroes theme.
1672
01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:40,049
A planned explosion supercharges Godzilla
1673
01:14:40,050 --> 01:14:42,669
to fight the good fight.
1674
01:14:42,670 --> 01:14:45,779
It's hard to imagine a more complete reversal.
1675
01:14:45,780 --> 01:14:49,199
This long time warning about the dangers of proliferation
1676
01:14:49,200 --> 01:14:51,599
is now an extension of the US military
1677
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:55,359
and something of an advertisement for the bomb.
1678
01:14:57,252 --> 01:15:01,625
[MUSIC PLAYING]
1679
01:15:03,040 --> 01:15:05,439
These days, it's not just about war movies.
1680
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:07,209
The Pentagon has managed to colonize
1681
01:15:07,210 --> 01:15:10,089
the entire entertainment landscape.
1682
01:15:10,090 --> 01:15:12,649
They've always had their toe in sci-fi, for example.,
1683
01:15:12,650 --> 01:15:14,859
But now it's a major part of the game.
1684
01:15:14,860 --> 01:15:17,439
Consider that Transformers was the first franchise
1685
01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:19,899
to cooperate with all four branches.
1686
01:15:19,900 --> 01:15:22,509
Sci-fi and comic book movies served as a refuge
1687
01:15:22,510 --> 01:15:26,989
from all those real and hugely unpopular overseas occupations.
1688
01:15:26,990 --> 01:15:28,989
TANNER MIRRLEES: The science fiction and fantasy
1689
01:15:28,990 --> 01:15:31,149
creates kind of an imaginary space
1690
01:15:31,150 --> 01:15:33,219
for the various melodramas of the military
1691
01:15:33,220 --> 01:15:36,879
to be scripted and played out without ever having to address
1692
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,299
the real motives of foreign policy in the world today,
1693
01:15:40,300 --> 01:15:43,809
nor the consequences for those that fight on its behalf
1694
01:15:43,809 --> 01:15:46,966
and die in its wake.
1695
01:15:46,967 --> 01:15:48,549
ROGER STAHL: If this embrace of sci-fi
1696
01:15:48,550 --> 01:15:51,276
strikes you as a bit strange, you're not alone.
1697
01:15:51,277 --> 01:15:53,109
ROBIN ANDERSEN: When Philip Strub or anybody
1698
01:15:53,110 --> 01:15:54,759
in the Entertainment Liaison Office
1699
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:57,009
says that it has to be accurate, we're
1700
01:15:57,010 --> 01:15:59,289
just changing these scripts to make it accurate,
1701
01:15:59,290 --> 01:16:05,289
what I love about that is now we are battling space invaders.
1702
01:16:05,290 --> 01:16:07,809
That's not a very accurate portrayal
1703
01:16:07,809 --> 01:16:09,729
of the Department of Defense and the role
1704
01:16:09,730 --> 01:16:12,317
of the Department of Defense.
1705
01:16:12,318 --> 01:16:14,109
ROGER STAHL: Once you've conquered fantasy,
1706
01:16:14,110 --> 01:16:15,309
where do you go?
1707
01:16:15,309 --> 01:16:17,068
Reality, of course.
1708
01:16:17,070 --> 01:16:18,818
This is probably the most surprising thing
1709
01:16:18,820 --> 01:16:20,049
about the documents.
1710
01:16:20,050 --> 01:16:23,439
The Pentagon has staked a flag in every little strange corner
1711
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:25,557
of reality TV.
1712
01:16:25,558 --> 01:16:27,099
They've had their hand in game shows,
1713
01:16:27,100 --> 01:16:29,289
like The Price Is Right for a while.
1714
01:16:29,290 --> 01:16:31,329
Despite all the yelling and running around,
1715
01:16:31,330 --> 01:16:34,209
the military carefully manages these events.
1716
01:16:34,210 --> 01:16:36,459
This includes handpicking participants.
1717
01:16:36,460 --> 01:16:38,109
And audience participation is out,
1718
01:16:38,110 --> 01:16:41,349
because they regard it as too spontaneous.
1719
01:16:41,350 --> 01:16:43,939
On these game shows and especially daytime talk shows,
1720
01:16:43,940 --> 01:16:45,759
you'll see a ton of reunions.
1721
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:48,759
The office is constantly arranging them.
1722
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:52,599
Then there are the many military themed home makeover shows.
1723
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,479
You can also invite the Dude Perfect influencers to romp
1724
01:16:55,480 --> 01:16:56,521
on your aircraft carrier.
1725
01:16:56,522 --> 01:16:58,479
- I've wanted to do something like this since I
1726
01:16:58,480 --> 01:16:59,646
saw the movie Top Gun.
1727
01:16:59,647 --> 01:17:01,146
ROGER STAHL: Or have the Rachael Ray
1728
01:17:01,147 --> 01:17:02,619
Show put a bunch of service people
1729
01:17:02,620 --> 01:17:04,539
through a cooking challenge.
1730
01:17:04,540 --> 01:17:06,818
Cooking shows are an astonishingly big part
1731
01:17:06,820 --> 01:17:08,859
of Pentagon assistance with TV.
1732
01:17:08,860 --> 01:17:10,659
Cake shows, especially.
1733
01:17:10,660 --> 01:17:12,669
Boy, do they love cake shows, lots
1734
01:17:12,670 --> 01:17:17,648
of different kinds of cakes, fighter jet cakes, tank cakes.
1735
01:17:17,650 --> 01:17:21,039
You have competition shows that serve as recruiting vehicles.
1736
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:23,619
Then there's what you might call harder TV documentary
1737
01:17:23,620 --> 01:17:26,839
fare, the kind of stuff on the History and Discovery channels.
1738
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:29,349
These are those programs that celebrate weapon systems,
1739
01:17:29,350 --> 01:17:32,562
sniper rifles, Apache helicopters, F-35s,
1740
01:17:32,563 --> 01:17:34,479
and what it's like to drive what will probably
1741
01:17:34,480 --> 01:17:35,979
replace the Humvee.
1742
01:17:35,980 --> 01:17:38,199
So that's what Jay Leno has been up to.
1743
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:39,818
- Well, that was pretty cool.
1744
01:17:39,820 --> 01:17:41,361
ROGER STAHL: This also includes shows
1745
01:17:41,362 --> 01:17:43,749
like Taking Fire and Inside Combat Rescue that embeds you
1746
01:17:43,750 --> 01:17:45,579
with the troops overseas, usually
1747
01:17:45,580 --> 01:17:48,818
through the eye of the helmet cam.
1748
01:17:48,820 --> 01:17:52,839
The guy behind this pivot to reality TV was David Evans.
1749
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:56,109
He took over as director of the Pentagon office in 2018,
1750
01:17:56,110 --> 01:17:58,719
but before that, his job was to manage assistance
1751
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:01,749
for documentary and unscripted television.
1752
01:18:01,750 --> 01:18:04,839
Shows like Inside Combat Rescue represented a big turn
1753
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:07,898
in that direction, a winning formula.
1754
01:18:07,900 --> 01:18:10,949
DAVID EVANS: It was a huge success for Nat Geo.
1755
01:18:10,950 --> 01:18:13,629
They saw the ratings go through the roof on it.
1756
01:18:13,630 --> 01:18:17,139
A year later, two years later, three years down the line,
1757
01:18:17,140 --> 01:18:19,719
other filmmakers coming to us, wanting to do...
1758
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:22,809
Or wanting to do something like a Nat Geo show.
1759
01:18:22,809 --> 01:18:24,789
And they'll say as much.
1760
01:18:24,790 --> 01:18:28,251
Yeah, we want to do another Inside Combat Rescue.
1761
01:18:28,252 --> 01:18:30,459
ROGER STAHL: Striking out into all this new territory
1762
01:18:30,460 --> 01:18:33,699
has required that the Office take a more aggressive posture.
1763
01:18:33,700 --> 01:18:36,099
These days, they're not just waiting around for producers
1764
01:18:36,100 --> 01:18:37,030
to come to them.
1765
01:18:37,031 --> 01:18:40,509
They're out there pounding the pavement and drumming up deals.
1766
01:18:40,510 --> 01:18:42,009
Suddenly, the Air Force is producing
1767
01:18:42,010 --> 01:18:44,049
an ad for its services and circulating it
1768
01:18:44,050 --> 01:18:45,644
among industry types.
1769
01:18:45,645 --> 01:18:47,769
NARRATOR: The Air Force Entertainment Liaison Office
1770
01:18:47,770 --> 01:18:51,189
is the industry's gateway to an extraordinary arsenal
1771
01:18:51,190 --> 01:18:54,999
of aircraft, equipment, incredible personnel,
1772
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:55,987
and locations.
1773
01:18:55,988 --> 01:18:58,568
ROGER STAHL: They're hitting the road to conferences and trade
1774
01:18:58,570 --> 01:19:00,349
shows to reach new markets.
1775
01:19:00,350 --> 01:19:02,529
KEN HAWES: And the reason that we are here today
1776
01:19:02,530 --> 01:19:06,398
is to inform filmmakers about our capability,
1777
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,429
about our office, and what we can do to help
1778
01:19:09,430 --> 01:19:11,506
them help us tell our story.
1779
01:19:11,507 --> 01:19:13,839
ROGER STAHL: They're presenting at Comic-Con and a bunch
1780
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:15,699
of other industry conferences.
1781
01:19:15,700 --> 01:19:17,499
They're going to military tech expos,
1782
01:19:17,500 --> 01:19:19,659
not to advertise their services, but to find out
1783
01:19:19,660 --> 01:19:23,589
what cool new gadgets are out there to pitch to producers.
1784
01:19:23,590 --> 01:19:25,977
Publicly, they claim they don't pitch.
1785
01:19:25,978 --> 01:19:28,269
Here's the new head of the Pentagon office at that Navy
1786
01:19:28,270 --> 01:19:29,260
webinar.
1787
01:19:29,261 --> 01:19:31,299
GLEN ROBERTS: We don't ever pitch.
1788
01:19:31,300 --> 01:19:33,969
We don't have an active pitch where I will call a studio
1789
01:19:33,970 --> 01:19:36,339
and say, hey, have you guys thought about this.
1790
01:19:36,340 --> 01:19:38,318
ROGER STAHL: You have to wonder why he's saying
1791
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:40,269
this when they clearly do.
1792
01:19:40,270 --> 01:19:42,039
Recall, they had pitched Act of Valor
1793
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,709
to the studios and pitched episodes about sexual assault
1794
01:19:44,710 --> 01:19:49,179
to NCIS, what they internally called the Navy's big request.
1795
01:19:49,180 --> 01:19:52,089
But there's a whole lot of day to day pitching, too.
1796
01:19:52,090 --> 01:19:53,648
They sent a congratulatory letter
1797
01:19:53,650 --> 01:19:55,749
to the new head of Fox Team Programming
1798
01:19:55,750 --> 01:19:59,469
and requested a meeting to pitch him potential Air Force ideas.
1799
01:19:59,470 --> 01:20:01,479
They pitched a story of a Marine and her bomb
1800
01:20:01,480 --> 01:20:04,689
sniffing dog to film studios, Animal Planet, Letterman,
1801
01:20:04,690 --> 01:20:06,969
and Extreme Makeover Home Edition.
1802
01:20:06,970 --> 01:20:08,949
And they took the opportunity while working
1803
01:20:08,950 --> 01:20:11,199
on an episode of Extreme Makeover Home edition
1804
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:13,869
to pitch an idea about doing it again with a different Air
1805
01:20:13,870 --> 01:20:15,369
Force team.
1806
01:20:15,370 --> 01:20:17,289
In the past few years, you start to see
1807
01:20:17,290 --> 01:20:19,898
entire sections of the weekly reports categorized
1808
01:20:19,900 --> 01:20:21,429
under outreach.
1809
01:20:21,430 --> 01:20:23,979
The military worries when they notice a production for which
1810
01:20:23,980 --> 01:20:25,629
they were not approached.
1811
01:20:25,630 --> 01:20:28,929
So they often reach out to offer assistance.
1812
01:20:28,930 --> 01:20:30,549
Back when he headed up the office,
1813
01:20:30,550 --> 01:20:34,269
David Evans summarized this role on his own LinkedIn account.
1814
01:20:34,270 --> 01:20:37,479
Engagement runs through the entire spectrum of production,
1815
01:20:37,480 --> 01:20:42,669
beginning all the way back with concept and script development.
1816
01:20:42,670 --> 01:20:44,859
So we're at a unique point in the evolution
1817
01:20:44,860 --> 01:20:47,579
of military propaganda in the US.
1818
01:20:47,580 --> 01:20:49,229
On the one hand, the Office has managed
1819
01:20:49,230 --> 01:20:53,489
to evade scrutiny and insinuate itself more deeply than ever.
1820
01:20:53,490 --> 01:20:56,429
But on the other, we can finally see the big picture
1821
01:20:56,430 --> 01:20:58,719
and do something about it.
1822
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:02,539
[MUSIC PLAYING]
1823
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:06,989
MATTHEW ALFORD: I think the reason it's important,
1824
01:21:06,990 --> 01:21:09,539
and perhaps the reason it's important to me,
1825
01:21:09,540 --> 01:21:12,629
is because whenever there is American
1826
01:21:12,630 --> 01:21:15,939
and British military action around the world,
1827
01:21:15,940 --> 01:21:17,489
particularly over the last 20 years,
1828
01:21:17,490 --> 01:21:21,629
that military action has been extremely destructive.
1829
01:21:21,630 --> 01:21:23,068
ROGER STAHL: The stakes are high.
1830
01:21:23,070 --> 01:21:25,229
We're talking about dominant representations
1831
01:21:25,230 --> 01:21:28,079
of the most powerful military on the planet, bigger
1832
01:21:28,080 --> 01:21:30,289
than the next dozen countries combined
1833
01:21:30,290 --> 01:21:32,039
that has been bombing other countries more
1834
01:21:32,040 --> 01:21:34,619
or less continually since World War II,
1835
01:21:34,620 --> 01:21:38,147
and with a staggering legacy of human suffering.
1836
01:21:38,148 --> 01:21:42,570
[MUSIC PLAYING]
1837
01:22:00,190 --> 01:22:06,449
MATTHEW ALFORD: The mood music for that is our popular culture.
1838
01:22:06,450 --> 01:22:08,449
ROGER STAHL: This is the cinematic universe that's
1839
01:22:08,450 --> 01:22:11,659
been operating under the radar for decades in which there
1840
01:22:11,660 --> 01:22:15,049
isn't a problem the US military can't solve,
1841
01:22:15,050 --> 01:22:19,379
and where alternative stories get sucked into a black hole.
1842
01:22:19,380 --> 01:22:22,818
It's a universe of officially prescribed threats
1843
01:22:22,820 --> 01:22:24,972
and target nations.
1844
01:22:24,973 --> 01:22:26,389
SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: This is not just
1845
01:22:26,390 --> 01:22:29,539
a concern to the United States.
1846
01:22:29,540 --> 01:22:31,759
It is a concern to the world.
1847
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:36,289
These are highly censored, politically motivated
1848
01:22:36,290 --> 01:22:40,921
portrayals of the American empire, if you wish.
1849
01:22:40,922 --> 01:22:42,629
MATTHEW ALFORD: We're just a bit affected
1850
01:22:42,630 --> 01:22:45,869
by that, which means that we're a bit more confident about how
1851
01:22:45,870 --> 01:22:48,359
great military action will be.
1852
01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:50,549
And we're a bit more confident that those
1853
01:22:50,550 --> 01:22:54,599
evil Iranians, or those evil Chinese, or evil Venezuelans,
1854
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:57,479
or whatever it is, we're just a bit more confident that they're
1855
01:22:57,480 --> 01:22:59,669
a bit less human.
1856
01:22:59,670 --> 01:23:02,879
And that kills thousands, tens of thousands,
1857
01:23:02,880 --> 01:23:07,049
or even in Iraq's case, a million people.
1858
01:23:07,050 --> 01:23:08,759
ROGER STAHL: It eventually hit me.
1859
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,339
This isn't just a collection of script changes.
1860
01:23:11,340 --> 01:23:14,818
We're inside of it, speeding through this world created
1861
01:23:14,820 --> 01:23:18,179
in the image of the military industrial complex.
1862
01:23:18,180 --> 01:23:20,729
And with razor thin margins of public support
1863
01:23:20,730 --> 01:23:22,679
for some of these disastrous wars,
1864
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:24,898
this skewed image of the world might just
1865
01:23:24,900 --> 01:23:28,648
be nudging us over the edge.
1866
01:23:28,650 --> 01:23:32,249
So what questions should we be asking if we want out?
1867
01:23:32,250 --> 01:23:34,068
Why shouldn't we know what they're doing?
1868
01:23:34,070 --> 01:23:35,818
- They shut down a battleship,
1869
01:23:35,820 --> 01:23:38,609
put up a giant 22 foot tall movie screen...
1870
01:23:38,610 --> 01:23:43,709
And actually, should we even be paying these organizations
1871
01:23:43,710 --> 01:23:47,549
to generate propaganda that's going to be
1872
01:23:47,550 --> 01:23:49,199
bounced back to us at the movies?
1873
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:52,409
Why do Americans not hear Voice of America
1874
01:23:52,410 --> 01:23:56,339
or any of the other identified propaganda formats
1875
01:23:56,340 --> 01:23:58,849
distributed around the globe?
1876
01:23:58,850 --> 01:24:01,349
ROGER STAHL: It turns out that the US has some long standing
1877
01:24:01,350 --> 01:24:03,209
propaganda laws that, at the very least,
1878
01:24:03,210 --> 01:24:06,059
prohibit its use on domestic audiences.
1879
01:24:06,059 --> 01:24:08,429
And the DOD's own public affairs directives
1880
01:24:08,430 --> 01:24:10,679
prohibits selective benefit, that
1881
01:24:10,680 --> 01:24:13,799
is favoritism toward a particular ideological movement
1882
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:15,909
or commercial enterprise.
1883
01:24:15,910 --> 01:24:17,909
So it seems like abolishing the Office might
1884
01:24:17,910 --> 01:24:20,429
have some legal justification.
1885
01:24:20,430 --> 01:24:23,791
But what if these deals could just be made more transparent?
1886
01:24:23,793 --> 01:24:25,709
It's clear that the Freedom of Information Act
1887
01:24:25,710 --> 01:24:27,568
isn't quite cutting it.
1888
01:24:27,570 --> 01:24:29,609
For example, Tom Secker asked the Navy
1889
01:24:29,610 --> 01:24:31,619
for the past decade of script notes.
1890
01:24:31,620 --> 01:24:33,449
They said they didn't keep them.
1891
01:24:33,450 --> 01:24:37,169
Two years, over 100 emails, and three formal appeals later,
1892
01:24:37,170 --> 01:24:41,519
they admitted they did keep them, 240,000 pages.
1893
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:43,769
But they said they couldn't release them, because they
1894
01:24:43,770 --> 01:24:46,318
contained trade secrets.
1895
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:48,959
They're giving us the runaround more and more these days.
1896
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:51,509
It's getting to the point of absurdity.
1897
01:24:51,510 --> 01:24:54,179
Like the time when Tom put in a request for documents related
1898
01:24:54,180 --> 01:24:55,889
to a dozen productions and the DOD
1899
01:24:55,890 --> 01:25:02,489
came back with 1,000 pages redacted, and I mean blank.
1900
01:25:02,490 --> 01:25:05,579
It may take legal action to get these offices to comply
1901
01:25:05,580 --> 01:25:07,949
with public information requests.
1902
01:25:07,950 --> 01:25:10,229
But on the most basic level, shouldn't we at least
1903
01:25:10,230 --> 01:25:12,839
know if they've had their hands on a production?
1904
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:14,879
After all, rules for commercial entities
1905
01:25:14,880 --> 01:25:17,818
have been around since the 1930s.
1906
01:25:17,820 --> 01:25:19,709
Take this typical military supported
1907
01:25:19,710 --> 01:25:22,449
episode of Rachael Ray that featured military themed
1908
01:25:22,450 --> 01:25:24,239
Suave products.
1909
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:28,109
At the end, Suave is required to disclose, but not the military.
1910
01:25:28,110 --> 01:25:29,289
That could change.
1911
01:25:29,290 --> 01:25:32,129
So you might see something like this.
1912
01:25:32,130 --> 01:25:35,068
OK, maybe something more like this.
1913
01:25:35,070 --> 01:25:36,629
The point is...
1914
01:25:36,630 --> 01:25:39,519
The public has a right to know.
1915
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:42,599
And I think the Pentagon should be legally obliged
1916
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:45,419
to make that information available to the public.
1917
01:25:45,420 --> 01:25:48,269
Not at the very end of a 3-minute credit run.
1918
01:25:48,270 --> 01:25:50,789
Not in the scrolling credits, somebody
1919
01:25:50,790 --> 01:25:52,739
listed as a technical advisor.
1920
01:25:52,740 --> 01:25:55,318
At the start of the film.
1921
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:56,879
SEBASTIAN KAEMPF: It wouldn't be particularly popular
1922
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:59,549
either with the film industry or with the Pentagon,
1923
01:25:59,550 --> 01:26:01,919
because people, I think, would not necessarily
1924
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:04,949
be prepared to pay money to see a film like that.
1925
01:26:04,950 --> 01:26:06,209
If the CIA wrote a movie,
1926
01:26:06,210 --> 01:26:07,679
do you really want to go see that?
1927
01:26:07,680 --> 01:26:10,739
I mean, is that what's going to pull in box office numbers?
1928
01:26:10,740 --> 01:26:11,969
No.
1929
01:26:11,970 --> 01:26:13,959
Then we get a culture that is greater...
1930
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:17,139
With a greater degree of transparency.
1931
01:26:17,140 --> 01:26:19,379
And then the public will vote with their feet
1932
01:26:19,380 --> 01:26:20,549
and vote with their wallets.
1933
01:26:20,550 --> 01:26:24,509
I think at the end of the day, because I'm a media educator,
1934
01:26:24,510 --> 01:26:28,439
I really just want people to be critical media consumers.
1935
01:26:28,440 --> 01:26:31,409
The problem is that you can't be a critical media consumer
1936
01:26:31,410 --> 01:26:33,869
unless this relationship between your war
1937
01:26:33,870 --> 01:26:37,619
movies and the military or your spy movies and the CIA
1938
01:26:37,620 --> 01:26:40,289
is made transparent.
1939
01:26:40,290 --> 01:26:42,209
Because the moment you become aware of it,
1940
01:26:42,210 --> 01:26:46,169
you can go to the movies and be far less subject
1941
01:26:46,170 --> 01:26:49,318
to the propaganda messages that the government is
1942
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:54,229
trying to get you to believe, or to accept, or to act upon.
1943
01:26:54,230 --> 01:26:57,271
I guess that's really what I want for people.
1944
01:26:57,272 --> 01:26:58,729
ROGER STAHL: For a decade now, I've
1945
01:26:58,730 --> 01:27:02,179
been asking myself the same question over and over.
1946
01:27:02,180 --> 01:27:05,719
Has the long arm of the security state refashioned this one?
1947
01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:07,489
And how about this one?
1948
01:27:07,490 --> 01:27:10,799
Now you're asking it too.
1949
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:12,101
Imagine living...
1950
01:27:12,102 --> 01:27:13,559
MOVIE TRAILER VOICE: in a world...
1951
01:27:13,559 --> 01:27:16,436
ROGER STAHL: where we don't have to.
1952
01:27:16,437 --> 01:27:22,179
[MUSIC PLAYING]
150246
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