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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,800 He was just the most fascinating person I've ever met in my life. 2 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:11,480 He was Malachi Martin. There is one Malachi Martin. 3 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,560 He drew you in. Very, very charming. 4 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:24,320 He was a warrior for God and he still is a warrior for God. 5 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:32,040 He was a great mythomaniac. He was a liar and a scoundrel. 6 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,600 And a cheat. 7 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,520 Good evening. Tonight we have a very special guest 8 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,640 and it's my true honour and pleasure to have made his acquaintance. 9 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:41,800 He is considered one of 10 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,320 the most knowledgeable experts on the Vatican in the world. 11 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,640 He is, first of all, a very eminent theologian. 12 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,080 Expert on the Catholic Church, former Jesuit, 13 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,640 and professor at the Vatican's Pontifical Biblical Institute. 14 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:57,440 He is author of national bestsellers Vatican: The Final Conclave, 15 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,680 Hostage To The Devil and The Jesuits. 16 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,000 He is also an exorcist. 17 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,280 Exorcism is a healing. 18 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,280 And it's a very horrid healing. But it does heal. 19 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,360 Inside it is a living hell. 20 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:17,600 It's a living hell. 21 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,480 The truth is, whether we like it or not, 22 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,600 the Devil does exist. 23 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,840 He is out there, he is our enemy, 24 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:30,480 and he hates us. 25 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,800 His aim is to destroy our souls. 26 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,160 This is a reality that does exist. 27 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,880 It's not everybody but there are real cases. 28 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,560 That's why the rite of exorcism exists. 29 00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:46,120 If the Church didn't believe it, it wouldn't do it. 30 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:47,560 It wouldn't even worry about it. 31 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,520 I don't believe that words teach. 32 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,800 Words don't teach. Experience teaches. 33 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,400 I think people have to have their own experiences. 34 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:03,920 I also know that once someone encounters that evil presence, 35 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,920 they know what exists and what doesn't. 36 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,840 There is a lot of scurrilous information out there on the Internet 37 00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:16,840 about Malachi that basically maligns him, 38 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:20,480 his character as well as himself, his person. 39 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,480 And this is part of setting the record straight. 40 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,720 In addition to being my friend, he was a good and holy man. 41 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,040 I just want to set the record straight on that. 42 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,840 We did not talk an awful lot about his exorcism 43 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,320 except the last one. 44 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,600 I kept asking him not to do it. 45 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,000 And he kept saying, "I am only going to be an assistant." 46 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,600 Not much chance of that. 47 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,800 An exorcist has to be a very holy priest. 48 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,000 Protected by the graces of the Church. 49 00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:59,760 And I think, again, in that last exorcism 50 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,560 that he was involved with, 51 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,680 I still believe that Malachi was the target. 52 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,400 Not that little girl. She was the bait. 53 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,640 Is it the way we saw it in The Exorcist? 54 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,600 That's a purely fictional account based on no fact. 55 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,040 I have never seen the head turning back 180 degrees. 56 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,040 Perhaps we could begin 57 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:51,920 by you telling us a bit about yourself, 58 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,400 your background, 59 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,880 and some of the activities that you are currently engaged in. 60 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,280 I think I am going to bore you but somebody listening to this tape 61 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,680 doesn't know about me so I suppose we should cover the essentials. 62 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,400 I was born in Ireland, in Kerry, 70 years ago. 63 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,480 70 years ago. Don't forget the 70, seven-zero. 64 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,600 I was educated in Ireland and I joined the Jesuits in Ireland, 65 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,400 just before the war began, and then after the war, 66 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,480 having done my philosophy, they sent me to Belgium 67 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,440 for my studies, and then, when I was finished, 68 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,760 they posted me to Rome to the Pontifical Biblical Institute. 69 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:28,400 That's an institute in the Vatican which trains professors of scripture. 70 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,360 It's fallen on evil days as regards doctrine. 71 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,360 If you were an American Catholic in 1955, 72 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,240 the world would have looked extraordinary to you. 73 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,520 Huge numbers of converts were flowing into the Church. 74 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,840 Churches were being built at a huge rate. 75 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:43,680 Then the Vatican Council took place, 76 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,160 which was to renew and reinvigorate the Church, 77 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,200 which was already growing hugely. 78 00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:52,040 And bang, within a couple of years, it all goes terribly wrong. 79 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,760 Churches are being closed. Nuns and priests flocking out of the church. 80 00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:57,760 The religious orders are winding down. 81 00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:01,400 Every social problem which the Catholic Church felt it had already solved 82 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,320 came back to bite it. 83 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,240 The Council was not a boy-scout jamboree. 84 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,120 It was a collection of very human beings 85 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,000 who were involved in a battle for the future of the Church. 86 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:21,440 They were talking about making the Church more human. 87 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,800 More up-to-date. More modern. More with-it. 88 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,800 More of service to the world instead of to dominate. 89 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,720 That was a very exciting time in the history of the Church. 90 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,880 Malachi Martin was of immense help in helping me 91 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,960 discover some of those people who were out there making it happen. 92 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,320 Making the revolution happen. 93 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,520 - This was Vatican II? - Vatican II. 94 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:52,120 1962 to 1965, fomented by the popes in question. 95 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,240 And by the cardinals. 96 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,920 The spirit amongst them was, at all costs, 97 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,080 by all means, let's get with the world. 98 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:06,400 We've been isolated. Let's modernise everything. 99 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,240 And in order to do that, in the Vatican Council, 100 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,000 they jettisoned sacred traditions that had always been traditions 101 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:18,080 in the Catholic Church back to the time of the first popes. 102 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:19,760 In the first century. 103 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,160 He was from Ireland. 104 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,560 He came from quite a large brood of children. 105 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,560 As far as I know, he had only one sister. I may be wrong. 106 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,480 But he had a number of brothers, 107 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,680 all of whom became rather well-read and religious, 108 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,640 Catholic-religious in their own right. 109 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,920 The Martin brothers. And Malachi was no slouch either. 110 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,160 He was following, pretty much, in his brothers' tradition. 111 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,040 He was like a young, clerical Indiana Jones, 112 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:52,920 crawling around caves in the Middle East. 113 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,600 He was one of the original people 114 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,800 who helped decipher the Dead Sea Scrolls. 115 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:58,960 He spoke multiple languages. 116 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,280 He was always an unswervingly loyal Catholic. 117 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,360 Loyal to the Papacy. Loyal to our Lady in Christ. 118 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,720 That formed his belief system down to his core. 119 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,440 He definitely cut a very sexy figure. 120 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,680 At parties, he would be the life of the party. 121 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,080 Telling his dirty jokes. 122 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,360 I became a good detective, 123 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,200 as I was, in fact, a good correspondent for Time magazine. 124 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,120 I got to the bottom of everything. 125 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:40,720 He had all these stories, some of which even turned out to be true! 126 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,080 Kaiser was a stringer for Time magazine 127 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,960 during Vatican Council II. 128 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,600 Kaiser was very deeply involved with the Jesuits. 129 00:08:54,680 --> 00:08:59,880 The Jesuits had always been afraid that when Malachi left, 130 00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:03,120 he would just spill the beans about everybody. 131 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,040 Because he knew about everybody in Rome. 132 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,920 So, I think that they decided 133 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,800 that they would get him before he could get them. 134 00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,800 And all of that came together to fuel 135 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,440 Kaiser's means by which he was able to express the hatred 136 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,040 and do as much damage as he felt he could do to Malachi. 137 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,760 I just got deeper into the character of Malachi Martin. 138 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,840 And so I wrote this book. It's called Clerical Error. 139 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,760 And the error was not only his error, 140 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,920 but mine in not being alive enough 141 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,360 to the reality. 142 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,320 I decided that this was too good a story to pass up 143 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:49,520 and that only I could tell it because only I had the whole story 144 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:50,880 in hand. 145 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:57,800 Only I had the willingness to dig to the bottom of the story 146 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,600 and get it out there. 147 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:04,480 And so I thought it might even make a good movie. 148 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:07,760 It would probably make a good documentary. 149 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,720 Because it is a fascinating tale. 150 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,520 True or not. 151 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,240 He made it clear that the reason why he left the Jesuit order, 152 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,600 in particular, was because in the 1960s, 153 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:26,800 the Jesuits, as with a lot of other organisations back then, 154 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,480 took a very hard-left turn, and I asked, I said, 155 00:10:29,560 --> 00:10:32,320 "So, you could say that after Vatican II, Mal, 156 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,520 the Jesuits were in left field?" 157 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,880 And he kind of smiled and said, "No, they weren't in left field. 158 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,480 They were outside the baseball stadium." 159 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,160 Pope John said he thought that Malachi should leave Rome. 160 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,120 Not the priesthood but leave Rome. 161 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,680 Because he said, "If you stay..." 162 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:52,760 I am saying this on camera, but anyway... 163 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,200 "If you stay, you will become another fat cardinal 164 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,080 with another mistress living outside of Rome." 165 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,440 He thought the best way for him to remedy this from his own perspective 166 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,920 was to get a document from Pope Paul VI 167 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,760 that he called a rescript in Latin. 168 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,560 What that did was release him from two of his three vows as a priest. 169 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,800 It released him from the vow of obedience. 170 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,040 So he could leave the Jesuit order. 171 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,400 And it released him from the vow of poverty, 172 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,400 because he would then be able to make his way 173 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,200 pursuing a secular lifestyle as an author in the West. 174 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,440 The only one of his vows that he kept to and maintained until he died 175 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:37,800 was his vow of chastity. 176 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,520 He maintained that until his death. 177 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:48,120 Priests are human beings, first of all. 178 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,560 Human beings go through all sorts of changes of mood 179 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,520 throughout their lives. 180 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,840 Privacy and the respecting of someone's privacy is absolutely paramount. 181 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,160 Because I know that the relationship between a priest 182 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,520 and his superior includes all sorts of private information. 183 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,360 And I know that priests are frequently given dispensations. 184 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:12,600 I personally would like to see more evidence 185 00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:16,120 that he was released from two but not from three vows. 186 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,480 I simply would find it unusual 187 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,080 that he had been released from two and not from the third. 188 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,720 In 1964, I came over to America 189 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:43,400 and became an American citizen, 190 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,000 and I settled down in New York and I write books here. 191 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,440 I do TV and radio. 192 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,440 You have written a lot of books, 193 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:55,680 and particularly the books concerning Roman Catholicism and the Vatican. 194 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:56,960 That's right. 195 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,080 When he first came, he had no money, he had nothing. 196 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,920 He earned money the way he could. 197 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,560 He washed dishes and drove a cab. 198 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,280 He did what he could to make a living. 199 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,520 He worked at the Encyclopedia Britannica 200 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:15,840 but he did not like that. 201 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,640 He said it was just taking somebody else's knowledge 202 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,240 and stuffing it in a book. 203 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,160 He didn't want to do that. He wanted to do his own work. 204 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,240 So, that didn't work out for him. 205 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,760 When I met him, it wasn't his plan to be a writer. 206 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,160 And I began to talk to him about a writing career. 207 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,160 I said that if he would give me a certain amount of time, 208 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,560 I would make him a successful writer. 209 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,320 But it takes time to do that. 210 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,600 He and I worked together then for 30 years. 211 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:55,640 As friends, and first I was his editor and publisher, 212 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,280 and when I left the publishing side of publishing, 213 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,400 to become an agent, he became my client. 214 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,200 I say mass every morning. I'm a priest. I say my breviary. 215 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,320 The usual things. That's about the sum total of it all. 216 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,600 I've published 15 books. I am preparing a 16th. 217 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,160 That's my life story. It's very uneventful. 218 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,760 But it's my life. 219 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,240 This is a man with a very clear analysis of what is happening. 220 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,560 He is putting words to people's sense of unease 221 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,000 at the apparent implosion of this perfect, huge church, 222 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,960 which, let's remember, until a few years previously, 223 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,680 Catholicism was claiming it would be the official religion of America. 224 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,880 Here comes Malachi Martin, with all his skills, 225 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,080 analysis, intelligence and eloquence, 226 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,200 giving answers, and that is why he made such a huge impact 227 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,360 and that's why many people found he was a natural leader for them. 228 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,920 There is a new generation of people who don't know what they should believe. 229 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,240 The Catholic Church's only strength was unity. Unity. 230 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:01,520 It's gone. 231 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,480 First off, people would kill to be with Malachi Martin. 232 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,800 He meant a lot to a lot of people. He brought the faith to them. 233 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,440 My first encounter with Father Martin was a result of a priest 234 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,800 we both knew at St Agnes Church in New York. 235 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,240 We were chatting one evening and he said, "Would you like to meet Malachi? 236 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:27,920 I know him. You can share a meal with him." 237 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,720 We just got fairly well acquainted over the course of that dinner. 238 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,320 In fact, it went so late that they politely asked us around 11:30pm 239 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,240 would we mind leaving the restaurant because the staff wanted to go home? 240 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,160 He was that kind of storyteller. 241 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,320 He was a very gentle, soft person. 242 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,480 He had a charming Irish accent 243 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,920 which absolutely fascinated me. 244 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,400 I never knew him like an equal. 245 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,440 To me, he was a mentor, he was an advisor, 246 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:58,880 he was a spiritual director, 247 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,280 somebody I looked up to. 248 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:06,560 But he wasn't a friend, like a colleague on the same level. 249 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,640 He was a friend, and a very dear friend. 250 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,400 The fact that he was there when my daughter died. 251 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,960 She was a newborn. She only lived two weeks. 252 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,040 I wouldn't have been able to hold it together, 253 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,080 I think, if Father Martin hadn't been there. 254 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,800 And again, he didn't have to do that. It was the middle of the night. 255 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,960 He jumped in a cab and came all the way downtown 256 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,960 to be with us, and to accompany us, 257 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,280 as we spent my daughter's final moments here, 258 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:37,920 and as she went on. 259 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,480 Tonight, I want to get off on a little bit different tangent 260 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,040 and talk about your past experiences as an exorcist. 261 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:47,920 Yes, that is a fascinating thing. 262 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,880 It's always fascinating for a lot of people. 263 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:54,680 We must tell them beforehand that exorcism and possession 264 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,720 is not a joy, is not a happy thing. 265 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,960 Possession is a dirty, insalubrious, 266 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,800 unhealthy, mucky and unpleasant situation 267 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,800 where you come across it. 268 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,000 But it is a necessary evil in the sense that 269 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,040 we have to deal with it once we meet people with it. 270 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,240 I met him one afternoon 271 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,360 and he had a fresh cut on his forehead 272 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,400 and I asked him what had happened. 273 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:22,920 He said he was at an exorcism 274 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,760 and a foot stool came flying through the air and hit him in the head. 275 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,800 It's cost me a lot. It's cost me two broken legs. 276 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,000 Almost broken kneecaps. 277 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,320 It endangered my life several times. 278 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,760 But I wasn't supposed to die. 279 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,360 Not yet. 280 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,600 It cost me a lot of hate. 281 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:51,760 A lot of my friends turned away. 282 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,200 They wouldn't walk with me no more, as the saying goes. 283 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,960 You'll give but you'll never get back again. 284 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,600 Some bit of you dies with every exorcism. 285 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,760 With everything she does, some bit of her is consumed 286 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,240 and goes away, I don't know where it goes. 287 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,160 God stores it up for you and you are finally reunited 288 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,880 but you lose that value that you use up. 289 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,360 You're used up. 290 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:16,760 It's all over. 291 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,720 You pay a price for anything decent you do in this life. 292 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,200 And you don't get it back. You're ennobled by it. 293 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,880 Strengthened by it. Made more human by it. More noble. 294 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,560 But you don't get it back. 295 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,800 After the Second Vatican Council, a lot of people believed 296 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,400 that the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. 297 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,880 From... the integral centre of the faith was concerned. 298 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,080 Malachi was one of them. 299 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,600 He saw a lot of what he called "the nonsense" going on. 300 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,120 And it also led to a general decline, 301 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,760 basically, in people's beliefs in central things. 302 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,120 Including the existence of evil and existence of the Devil. 303 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,000 Because in the wake of all the changes in the 1960s, 304 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,720 people wanted to focus on flowery love, forgiveness, 305 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,040 puppies in the sunshine, and all that stuff. 306 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,280 We find out the majority of bishops in this country didn't believe in the Devil, 307 00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:14,880 didn't believe in exorcism. 308 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,400 Had dropped that idea. So we said we'd have an underground. 309 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,920 We set up an underground of exorcists throughout the country. 310 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,440 And we... That's how I got into it. 311 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,600 I've stopped sending them to certain bishops now. 312 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,640 They send them off to see a shrink, go to a home, rest up, get drugs. 313 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,520 And it only makes them worse. 314 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,920 Makes it worse. It's a terrible plight. 315 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,840 God and Satan cannot coexist. 316 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,880 I mean you cannot - you cannot - 317 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:55,720 worship both of them. 318 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,480 You have to choose, Malachi often said 319 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,840 that Satan and Christ divide the world between them. 320 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,280 And the Church needs to make it very clear 321 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:09,240 who she is and what she stands for. 322 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,240 "When the Church asks publicly and authoritatively 323 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,040 in the name of Jesus Christ 324 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:22,400 that a person or an object be protected against the power of the evil one, 325 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,760 and withdrawn from his dominion, it is called exorcism. 326 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,240 Exorcism is directed at the expulsion of demons 327 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,840 or to the liberation from demonic possession 328 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,880 through the spiritual authority 329 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,800 "with which Jesus entrusted his church." 330 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,960 In the Catholic ceremony of exorcism, 331 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,520 we perform an exorcism, not a type of exorcism or a blessing. 332 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,240 It is an exorcism. There are two types of exorcism 333 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:49,840 in the Catholic Church. 334 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,160 The type that we perform at every baptism 335 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,960 and then the type we don't talk about very often. 336 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,600 We were taught as children that God existed 337 00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,760 and that the Devil existed, 338 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,760 and that God was more powerful than the Devil. 339 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:09,800 I know that he can't be quite as candid as he was with us 340 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,160 cos there's tapes and there's video. 341 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,840 But he is going to be very open. 342 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,640 I was going to classes with Ed and Lorraine Warren. 343 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,720 Lorraine said, "Next week, Malachi Martin is coming to speak with us." 344 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,840 I had no idea who he was. She said he was an exorcist. 345 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,040 I thought, that's the coolest thing ever. I can't wait. 346 00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:33,000 I specifically chose to sit in the back of the room 347 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,760 because I didn't want to hog the spotlight in the front. 348 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,440 He spoke for an hour and a half or so. 349 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,440 At the end, a few of us got in line to get our books autographed or say hi. 350 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,280 He immediately kept staring at me down the line. 351 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,960 I thought, oh, boy. 352 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,760 When he finally got to me, he pointed to me 353 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,600 and goes, "Were you sitting in that back corner?" 354 00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,640 I said yes. He goes, "You were distracting me the whole time." 355 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,960 I said, what? 356 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,840 He says, "You have a glow about you. 357 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,240 You are throwing off lights like I have never seen before." 358 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,520 He said, "You are my favourite person in this room right now." 359 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,920 He goes, "It's an honour to meet you." An honour to meet me? 360 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,160 He made me feel so special that day 361 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,160 that I still remember what he said. 362 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,000 I think about it all the time. 363 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,640 They lionised him. 364 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,600 They brought him to the various churches around the USA 365 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,720 and paid him nice lecture fees. 366 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,600 They got him book contracts to write these funny books. 367 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,720 They weren't funny. They were just weird. 368 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,160 Books that told these people what they wanted to hear. 369 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,920 He parlayed this into profit. 370 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,040 My name is Ralph Sarchie. 371 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:55,440 I am a retired New York City police sergeant. 372 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:56,920 I am also a demonologist. 373 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,720 Father Malachi Martin was my mentor 374 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,720 when I first started out in what I call work. 375 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:05,640 I am a religious demonologist, 376 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,520 meaning that I approach this field from a religious point of view. 377 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,240 I have assisted at exorcisms. 378 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,600 I investigate cases of demonic activity and demonic possession. 379 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,480 Usually, I am the first guy to go in there to see if it's a genuine case. 380 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,720 If it is, then we set up an exorcism. 381 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,160 All through my career, I saw a lot of crazy things, 382 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:35,840 but it wasn't what I saw as a cop that led me into the field of demonology. 383 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:42,920 It was more of an interest that went a lot further than just reading books. 384 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,520 I actually got involved in it 385 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,560 and I was involved with all the right people 386 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,240 in order to get to the point where I am at in the field. 387 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,520 I try not to get emotionally involved with my cases. 388 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,800 I can make mistakes when that happens. 389 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,200 I get emotionally involved with people to a certain degree. 390 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,360 Because, as Father Martin says, 391 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,000 in the studies that he did, there is no common denominator 392 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,160 between all of these people who have had genuine cases of possession 393 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,400 or genuine cases of infestation in their homes. 394 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,320 There is no common denominator between these people except for one thing. 395 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,120 They all suffer. 396 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,400 It's the suffering that's difficult because... 397 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,440 you know, sometimes I get a case and it takes me a few months to get there. 398 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,160 So, one of the cops at work 399 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,400 arrested this guy. 400 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,240 The guy was threatening him. 401 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,240 Is there more coffee there? 402 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,920 I look at this way. 403 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,080 God puts people in your path to teach you 404 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,960 and to direct you in what he needs. 405 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,360 And to serve his will properly. 406 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,360 And Father Martin had that place. 407 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,560 Basically, it was selfishness on my part, 408 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,920 the way I became his de facto driver 409 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,000 because he knew I had a perfectly good working Jeep 410 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,920 and that we had a great time whenever we were together, 411 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,920 talking, chatting, sharing either a burger or a pizza. Whatever. 412 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,800 And I just made it known to him, 413 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,960 "Mal, if you ever need to go anywhere, 414 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,240 I'd like mine to be the first number you dial. 415 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,400 I am going to pick up and it's always going to be a yes." 416 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,200 I had spoken with Father Martin years prior 417 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,080 about children. 418 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,600 And the things that he had told me is that... 419 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,960 ...God is going to allow more children to become possessed genuinely 420 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,280 because of a chastisement towards the parents. 421 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:03,600 He said that when you start to see that happening, 422 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,000 that's when there is a turning point. 423 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,280 So I have been watching and I have seen a rise in child possession. 424 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:13,600 Basically, within the last few years. 425 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,040 We also have this new phenomenon 426 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:21,200 called the demonic possession of children. 427 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,600 - Demonic possession of children? - Three, four, five, six. 428 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,280 - Good heavens. - Very frightening. Very frightening. 429 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,360 That morning, when I got a phone call from Father Malachi, 430 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,000 I actually thought that he was calling to confirm 431 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,960 our birthday lunch that was going to happen in a couple of weeks. 432 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,240 Instead, he asked me would I be willing 433 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,160 to drive him up Dr Coomaraswamy's to Connecticut. 434 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,200 I already knew the way, having been up there several times. 435 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,960 So I said, sure, I'd been happy to. 436 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,160 While we were on the way up there, I said, 437 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,520 "What's the main reason for us coming up here today?" 438 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,360 He said, "You are going to drop me off because..." 439 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,960 Two hours after you drop me off, there will be a family arriving 440 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,360 and they have with them their small daughter, 441 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,800 and she is apparently very severely afflicted 442 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,120 "with something they believe to be demonic." 443 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,280 I said, "It's a good thing I am dropping you off two hours ahead of time. 444 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:17,520 Because I don't want to be anywhere near it." 445 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,280 For me go back up there 446 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:45,160 is basically to bring a degree of calm to my soul. 447 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,560 If anything else. 448 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,480 Because I didn't know what the subsequent events were going to be 449 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,080 after we went up to Connecticut. 450 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,000 He probably had a good idea 451 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,120 but he didn't tell me the whole length and breadth of it. 452 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,160 There's very little truth known about the Devil. 453 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,720 We do know from the Church and from scripture 454 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,560 that Satan was one of the brightest and most intelligent of the archangels. 455 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,600 Now, he did, though, rebel. 456 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,360 And apparently, there was a battle between the good angels, 457 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,640 led by Michael, the archangel, against Lucifer, 458 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,120 the light-bearer, the son of the dawn. 459 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,920 So, he was defeated and condemned to what we call hell. 460 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,560 As far as we know, God does love purity. 461 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,880 He does love compassion. 462 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,760 He loves beauty. Look at the beautiful things he has created in nature. 463 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,960 But God, in all those things, he has one great preference. 464 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,120 Repentance. 465 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,200 He loves to exercise mercy. 466 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,800 How could he do that unless people who are tempted 467 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,600 and he had to forgive them? He didn't want a perfect world. 468 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,680 He wanted to have a world in which he could exercise mercy. 469 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,400 So he gave Satan the power 470 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,120 of tempting man. 471 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,760 I'm told that there's a Devil. 472 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,400 The Bible said so. Jesus even said so. 473 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,320 The Pope often refers to the Devil as a real person. 474 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,080 For all my love of Pope Francis, I do not. 475 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,960 I am not prepared to say 476 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,800 that he's wrong and I am right. 477 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,680 I will find out. I look forward to my days 478 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,880 very soon when I will embarked on a new adventure, 479 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,960 finding out the answers to all these questions that I've had 480 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,640 all my life and didn't know the answers to. 481 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,440 If you deny the Devil, 482 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,320 if you deny the existence of Lucifer, 483 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,760 if you deny the existence of sin, of hell, 484 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,720 eternal punishment, 485 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,360 you automatically deny Christ's salvation. 486 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,440 In fact, you can't deny the existence of Lucifer 487 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,800 without being led inevitably to deny the divinity and function of Christ, 488 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,240 our saviour. What's the purpose in Christ coming? 489 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,560 To make a nice land, to give us happy lives? 490 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,760 No, no! He came to save us from sin. S-I-N. 491 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,600 The Church exists to answer real needs. 492 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,800 If those needs are not answered, people simply walk away 493 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,680 and find the answers they are looking for. 494 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,960 I can imagine a situation 495 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,560 in the atmosphere of the 1970s in New York, 496 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,640 where those needs were being expressed, 497 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,640 people were being turned away by priests, 498 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,520 being told that we'd moved on from those old superstitions. 499 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,720 And yet people hadn't moved on from that sense of affliction. 500 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,040 If those people, or even one of them presented themselves 501 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,280 to Malachi Martin, I have no doubt that he would respond, 502 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:40,720 pastorally, as a priest. 503 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,680 When a human being is possessed, 504 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,800 what is the purpose of the possession of an individual? 505 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,800 The destruction of that individual's soul 506 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,120 to such a point that it must end up in hell. 507 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,680 I think everyone has their own personal beliefs about God 508 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,880 and the Devil and spirituality. 509 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,040 But in terms of trying to convince anyone, 510 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,120 I don't think we'd ever be successful in convincing anyone. 511 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,280 Because there is still no real hardcore evidence. 512 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,520 We can't point to, there's the Devil right there. 513 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,480 We have no picture of him. 514 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,520 I think people are going to be sceptical 515 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,400 until they see that picture. 516 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,080 That's OK. Scepticism is a healthy thing. 517 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,440 I would encourage that. Don't accept anything at face value. 518 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,240 Question, question, question. 519 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,120 By turns he would be talkative, 520 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,720 and by other turns he would be introspective 521 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,000 and get kind of quiet. 522 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,080 And as we got closer, between him and I, 523 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:04,480 there was an unspoken tension. 524 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,560 We could feel that we were approaching something. 525 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,800 You know, he had heard my confession, my full confession, 526 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,400 about half an hour before, 527 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,480 so there was nothing weighing on my conscience. 528 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,440 But still, between the both of us, 529 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,280 there was really a sense of foreboding. 530 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,880 And I could not explain why. 531 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:47,920 My name is Matt Baglio. 532 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,760 The Making Of A Modern Exorcist. 533 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,400 Rome is really the capital of exorcism in many ways. 534 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,840 I heard about this exorcism course, 535 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,560 which is really what brought me into the topic of exorcism. 536 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,840 Before beginning the book, I didn't know anything about exorcism. 537 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,080 I was very surprised by a lot of the things I learned. 538 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:15,240 Here, in Italy, there is probably 20 people undergoing an exorcism 539 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:16,680 in Rome right now. 540 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,800 This exorcism course that we have here in Rome, 541 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,360 in our university, was invented by a layman. 542 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,680 This gave me also the opportunity 543 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,640 to work with a famous, at least in Italy, 544 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,760 very famous exorcist called Father Gabriele Amorth. 545 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,920 We try to give a general outlook of exorcism. 546 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,840 So we speak on the rite... 547 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,800 and it's a liturgic part. 548 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,480 But we also speak on the medical aspects 549 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,320 to try to help the priest to understand 550 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,080 the difference between schizophrenia and true possession. 551 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,880 Between a person that is on the drugs or on depression 552 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:01,920 and true possession. 553 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,280 Today, the hierarchy of the Church - 554 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,840 some support this course and some don't - 555 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,160 I think, want a more cautious approach. 556 00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:16,520 They want to embrace modern medicine and modern science 557 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,920 but at the same time, not discount their own past 558 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:26,520 and their own belief that exorcism is necessary 559 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,600 in certain rare instances. 560 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,080 One of the topics of this course 561 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,080 was to try and reintroduce priests to the traditional teachings 562 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,280 of the Catholic Church on a topic like the Devil. 563 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,600 There's many Catholic priests who don't believe in exorcism. 564 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,240 I found that surprising. 565 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,480 They don't believe in the Devil as a personified entity. 566 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,240 They were thinking of things like Hollywood films and such. 567 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,440 It's very easy to laugh at that 568 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,680 and say, well, I don't believe in that either. 569 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,920 They were trying to remind priests that... 570 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,240 this is something the Church believes in and goes back to the Bible. 571 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,360 We see that Christ, he was the first exorcist. 572 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,320 He had many encounters with persons possessed by the Devil. 573 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,680 We can read this in scripture. 574 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,440 And he was able to cast out demons. 575 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,040 Then he gave this power to his disciples. 576 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,320 The disciples were also able to cast out demons. 577 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,160 "No one may lawfully exorcise the possessed 578 00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:37,360 without the special and express permission of the local ordinary. 579 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,400 Jesus performed exorcisms 580 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,880 and from him, the Church has received the power and office of exorcising. 581 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,320 The solemn exorcism, called a major exorcism, 582 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,240 can be performed only by a priest 583 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,320 and with the permission of the bishop. 584 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,680 The priest must proceed with prudence, 585 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,280 strictly observing the rules established by the Church. 586 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,920 Illness, especially psychological illness, 587 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,320 is a very different matter. 588 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,120 Treating this is the concern of medical science. 589 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,600 Therefore, before an exorcism is performed, 590 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,000 it is important to ascertain that one is dealing with the presence 591 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,480 of the Evil One and not with an illness. 592 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,600 Anneliese Michel died of starvation at 23. 593 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,440 A religious student who spoke in strange voices, 594 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,480 doctors said she had epilepsy. 595 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,240 But she thought it was the Devil. 596 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,840 And so did a panel of priests who recorded the voices. 597 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,440 The priests who followed this 17th-century ritual believed 598 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,480 that it worked, that Anneliese was spiritually healed 599 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:53,800 when she died. 600 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,240 But a Bavarian prosecutor says this bishop, 601 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,800 who authorised the exorcism, 602 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,600 the priests who performed it, and the parents who allowed it, 603 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,840 could face criminal-neglect charges 604 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,680 for failing to get medical help for the starving woman. 605 00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,640 With science, you start with an open tablet. 606 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:16,280 An open slate. 607 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,360 And everything is included, and you just go along, 608 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,920 and exclude different variables as you can. 609 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,640 Each one was very different. 610 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:26,360 Each one was very specific and individualised. 611 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,160 So, I would try to rule out mental illness. 612 00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:32,360 Just rule out different factors. 613 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,320 Cognitive functioning. 614 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,400 Any psychotropic medications. 615 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,640 Ill side effects they may be experiencing, if at all. 616 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:41,360 I am not afraid on the sceptics 617 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,840 because I am also a sceptic on myself. 618 00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,280 I don't believe that just any person that arrives, 619 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,440 "I'm possessed," I am very sceptical. 620 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:56,240 A normal priest should be, in a true sense, very sceptical. 621 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,160 To really grasp what it is. 622 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,360 And I can tell you that in my experiences, 623 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,000 as an exorcist, 624 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:09,120 more than 90% of the persons that arrive to me as an exorcist 625 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,440 telling me that they have problems with the Devil, 626 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,480 they have no problems with the Devil at all. 627 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,960 People say they are possessed all the time. 628 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,560 It doesn't make it true. 629 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,640 You have to rule it out. 630 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:22,080 Or rule it in. 631 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,320 Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: 632 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,080 And he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. 633 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:39,200 And all the people were amazed and said, "Is this not the son of David?" 634 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,040 But when the Pharisees heard, they said, 635 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,400 "This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of devils." 636 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,120 And Jesus knew their thoughts and said unto them, 637 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,600 "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to dissolution." 638 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:59,160 And every city or house divided against itself shall not stand. 639 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,720 And if Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. 640 00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,320 How shall then his kingdom stand? 641 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,160 And if I, by Beelzebub, cast out devils, 642 00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:12,440 by whom do your children cast them? 643 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,920 "Therefore, they shall be your judges." 644 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,680 We now know that there are people who programmed 645 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,920 children at the age of two, 646 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,600 reinforced it at seven, confirmed it at 14 and 21. 647 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:32,040 Programmed... towards Lucifer. 648 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,040 They become Luciferians. 649 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,720 They're turned out by the thousands every year. 650 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,080 We know who does it, who'll do it, we know when they do it, 651 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,160 but we can't do anything about it. It's a free country. 652 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:43,240 And... 653 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,840 It comes in various way. 654 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,720 The television has a lot to do with it. 655 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,720 Music has a lot to do with it. 656 00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,360 We have made a statistical survey of the possessed people we've known 657 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,400 and there are a lot of them. 658 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,520 There's no ethnic, there's no religious, 659 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,360 there's no gender, 660 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,440 there's no intellectual, there's no economic... 661 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,320 There's no rule. It's of some peculiar alchemy inside. 662 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,040 Because it creeps up to you slowly. 663 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,760 Satan doesn't appear with a scroll and says, 664 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,880 "You can have all these things if you sell your soul to me." 665 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,440 Faustian, Mephistopheles, it's not like that. 666 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,400 It's the simple things slowly but surely. 667 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,480 And the possession then becomes so that at a certain moment... 668 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,720 ...you are under the command of something 669 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,640 that takes possession of your will bit by bit. 670 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:44,840 It's a slow process until one day, 671 00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,320 you can't say no and you are possessed. 672 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,360 You are no longer free to choose. 673 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,160 How do you know a perfectly possessed person? 674 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,280 It's a leading question. 675 00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,480 It's a very easy question to answer in one sense. 676 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,520 That is the test. 677 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:07,960 By tests. 678 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,800 You'll know some, OK? 679 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,680 You might get involved with them. 680 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,480 You might even go to bed with her. 681 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,640 You work in the office with him, you know him socially, 682 00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:21,200 and you know him, you think, until one day, 683 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,240 something happens and... 684 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,440 ...you suddenly see a person you never knew. 685 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,800 It's momentary. 686 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,720 The window on the camera opens into reality. 687 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,760 You'll see it and then it's closed again. That's the way you know it. 688 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,560 Otherwise, they can be good fathers, they can be good statesmen. 689 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,280 They can be good bankers. They can have sexual probity. 690 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,760 Everything. But they're possessed. 691 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,080 Completely given over to Satan. 692 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,040 Malachi told me many times. 693 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,080 He said that he thought, as a society, 694 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,960 the West and the world were heading towards some kind of tipping point. 695 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,560 He fully expected that possibly during his lifetime, 696 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,720 or after, what he used to refer to as, "after I'm playing the harp," 697 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,280 that there was going to come some kind of event 698 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,280 that would define the end of what he called the Catholic era 699 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,160 as we know it. 700 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,040 And because of that, he said various events would be happening. 701 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,680 And possessions, things like possessions, would naturally increase as well. 702 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,680 I am sure you've all read that passage in the Book of Deuteronomy 703 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,080 where God says, "This day, there are two courses open to you. 704 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,680 And I am telling you which one to follow." 705 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,880 On the one hand, you can choose life and goodness. 706 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,160 On the other hand, you can choose death and evil. 707 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,040 I truly believe that what I am seeing now 708 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,360 with all the things that I've heard, all the things that I've read about, 709 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,480 this is just the lull before the storm. 710 00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,680 Because I see us being taken in a direction 711 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,800 that Father Martin basically described. 712 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,600 I don't like it one bit what's going on. 713 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:13,080 Over all and everywhere, throughout our community of nations today, 714 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,000 numbering roughly about five billion, 715 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:20,200 and chiefly by legalised abortion but also by contraception, 716 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,160 by euthanasia, by condoned infanticide, 717 00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:25,520 by deliberately fomenting civil wars, 718 00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,640 by endemic hunger, 719 00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:29,280 by the floods of refugees, 720 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,360 never before in the history of man 721 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,240 has the lifeblood of so many been shed so violently, 722 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,800 so mercilessly wasted as in our day. 723 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,120 We specialise in the death of masses 724 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,000 as a community of nations today, 725 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,000 and we belong to that community whether we like it or not. 726 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:50,320 So anti-life, surely, that's us. We are anti-life. 727 00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,040 Bloodstained guilt, surely. 728 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:58,000 Every 24 hours, we widen that dark red pool of human blood. 729 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,480 We do. We do. 730 00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,200 There's nothing underground with this. You gotta see it. 731 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,000 If you don't have faith and you don't have spirituality, 732 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,080 you're not gonna see it. 733 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,880 You're gonna miss all the miracles of the supernatural. 734 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,360 And you are going to miss all the reverse miracles of the preternatural. 735 00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,800 And open your eyes. 736 00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,840 Find God and you'll see. 737 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,760 Lucifer has the most amazing PR. He doesn't exist. 738 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,400 ...World War Two, 739 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,440 which we were fighting, was never to be known. 740 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,040 He has made it so he doesn't exist. 741 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,440 The film-business headline could read "The Devil knocks out the mafia." 742 00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,280 For in 22 US and Canadian cities, the old box-office champ 743 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,600 The Godfather is being flattened by that movie about diabolical possession, 744 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:06,880 The Exorcist. 745 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,480 There was a very funny picture called The Exorcist, 746 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,040 based on a book by William Blatty, 747 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,640 which was totally erroneous as regards exorcism. 748 00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:21,000 It's a phony exorcism. It makes out exorcism to be a combination 749 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,160 of Frankenstein and Dracula 750 00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:26,440 with a lot of green goo, and windows breaking and bodies flying. 751 00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,320 It's much more terrible and lethal than that. 752 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,120 Everything you see in The Exorcist can happen. 753 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:39,680 But it could happen in an exorcist over a lifetime... 754 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,240 It would be almost unheard-of that it would appear 755 00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:49,280 in a single individual in one single case. 756 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,480 The movies tend to condense a lot of phenomena. 757 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:58,800 I know one exorcist who told me he has once only seen levitation 758 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,720 in 20 years as an exorcist. 759 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,600 Right? But he has seen it. 760 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,360 He saw a child floating around the floor. 761 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,000 When we were publishing Hostage To The Devil, 762 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,800 because Tony was such a good friend of Peter Blatty, 763 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,000 we had some difficulty there. 764 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,160 They required Malachi to get a letter from the Pope 765 00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:26,360 saying that he was what he said he was, 766 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,160 and exorcism was what it said it was. 767 00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:31,680 And Malachi got a letter from Paul VI 768 00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,840 and Peter Blatty, when he heard about this, 769 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,280 just hit the ceiling. 770 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,800 He just... Exorcism was his. 771 00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,160 And not only did he not write a blurb for the book, 772 00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:48,680 he wrote a review of the book in the Los Angeles Times, 773 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,400 the opening line of which was, 774 00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,920 "I hate this book." 775 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,840 When I wrote that book in 1975, I wrote it for one reason only. 776 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,400 I wrote it because I found my contemporaries in America and Canada 777 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,920 and Australia and Ireland had forgotten what it was all about. 778 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,400 They didn't know it existed any more. So I decided, as I was in that field, 779 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:15,120 that I would get and publish the transcripts of five to ten exorcisms 780 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,240 and publish them as such with a preface. 781 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,840 So I read Malachi Martin's book early on. 782 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,080 It definitely made an impression on me. 783 00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,440 It's a very dramatic portrayal of exorcism. 784 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,240 There's no doubt about it. Here he was, a Catholic priest, 785 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,960 writing about a topic that many people didn't know anything about, 786 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,720 and whatever you want to say about Hostage To The Devil, 787 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,680 it's definitely a gripping read. 788 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,800 Even today. 789 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,400 My name is John Zaffis. I am a paranormal investigator 790 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,080 and demonologist. 791 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,000 I have been involved with the field for 42 years, 792 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:58,040 investigating a lot of different claims of hauntings 793 00:47:58,120 --> 00:47:59,840 and the possibility of possession. 794 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,840 You know, years ago, people used to look forward 795 00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,560 to sitting down, reading a book, 796 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,560 and Hostage To The Devil is probably one of the very first books 797 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,080 I was reading in regards to some of this work. 798 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,760 I finally had the opportunity to meet him 799 00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,160 when he was speaking at a small event. 800 00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:23,440 You know, he would have this look you notice with a lot of spiritual people. 801 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,520 They are trying to get a good sense of you. 802 00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,680 You have to remember, when you get involved with this field, 803 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,840 it's so important to be able to be guarded 804 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,320 and careful with the people you associate yourself with. 805 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,920 Because people will go after you in a heartbeat to tear you down. 806 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:45,000 He was on a downward spiral of more and more myths. 807 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,720 Hostage To The Devil was an account of his... 808 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,600 ...efforts to cast the Devil out 809 00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,200 of various people who had been... 810 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,280 ...possessed by the Devil. 811 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,840 And by all critical accounts, 812 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,840 his account didn't really stand up. 813 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,840 It did extremely well. 814 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:25,200 As time went on, it outsold The Exorcist. 815 00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,640 It is still in print and still on sale. 816 00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:29,760 It has sold well over a million copies. 817 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,480 It appealed to his romantic nature 818 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,520 to have a romantic tale to tell. 819 00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,440 He did very well. He sold a few books. More than a few. 820 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,720 On one hand, you could say he was always interested 821 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,480 in the most sensational story that he could make up. 822 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,560 On the other hand, there are those who think 823 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,240 he, Malachi Martin himself, was somewhat possessed by the Devil. 824 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:09,320 And for him to cast himself in the role of someone who could cast devils out 825 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,160 was a really neat trick! 826 00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:14,160 - Have you ever been possessed? - No. Thank God. 827 00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:17,200 Some of the critics think maybe you were when you wrote this book. 828 00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,040 Well, may the Lord cure me if I have been possessed. 829 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,880 I doubt that you have been. 830 00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:28,600 There is one thing that people have to understand. 831 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,840 He broke ground. He went public. 832 00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,880 He started doing appearances and radio shows, 833 00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,680 talking about this topic. 834 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,240 Demonology. Possession. These things exist. 835 00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:41,520 These things do happen. 836 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,720 He was crucified, basically, behind the scenes, 837 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,920 you know, with the Church, with people ridiculing him. 838 00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,760 "Misrepresentation, falsehood, and imagination 839 00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,840 gone berserk all in the elaboration and defence of a particular thesis." 840 00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,080 Well, do you know what Ben Jonson said 841 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,800 when somebody said similar words about a work of his? 842 00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:01,760 He said, "When a gentleman throws mud at me, 843 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,280 I know he has only got mud to throw." 844 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,680 You know, I don't respond to critics. 845 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,080 I don't really care what critics have to say. 846 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,480 I believe that Father Martin felt the same way. 847 00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,360 We are more interested in pleasing God 848 00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,080 than pleasing our fellow man. 849 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,760 If you mention God, they want to boo you. 850 00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,520 If you mention Jesus, they want to boo you. 851 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,680 They want to take it out of the Pledge of Allegiance. 852 00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,960 And the Ten Commandments, and all this. 853 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,040 But you know what, oddly enough, 854 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:30,960 "In God we trust" is on our money. 855 00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,320 I don't see anybody throwing that away. 856 00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,200 So, you know what, if you don't believe in God, 857 00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,120 and you want to remove all of... 858 00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:42,800 then take every penny you have and give it away! 859 00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:43,920 Right now! 860 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:49,000 Don't wait. Give it away. Because God's name is on the money. 861 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,200 You're a hypocrite at that time. You know, walk the walk. 862 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,600 I never knew the man in person 863 00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,680 but I interviewed him for countless hours on the radio. 864 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,360 I was very fortunate. We became close friends. 865 00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,160 I don't think you could listen to Malachi 866 00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:10,640 and not have a strong opinion, one way or the other. 867 00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:17,080 I have received a lot... not a lot, a few angry, very angry, faxes. 868 00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:18,520 I am sure you have. 869 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,320 How dare you, Art, expose the audience to this... 870 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:27,160 old-fashioned, put-the-fear- of-God-in-them hellfire-and-brimstone... 871 00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:29,400 People are very angry. 872 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,560 They are. I know they are very angry. 873 00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:36,960 But as I say, my reading of the really, really, really angry ones 874 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,640 is that this disturbs their way of life. 875 00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:44,600 This manifests a weakness. 876 00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,720 This tells the truth about the way that they live 877 00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,160 and they don't like to be reminded of it. 878 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:56,800 He certainly brought it off very well. 879 00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,760 He made lots of money, writing these books, 880 00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:04,120 and making many appearances on radio and television. 881 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,800 However, what did it all add up to? 882 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,800 Huge disappointment on the part of those who finally saw through him. 883 00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,480 Father Martin, where can I write to you? 884 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,320 Following address. Take it. 885 00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:26,200 217 East 66th Street, New York, New York. 886 00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,560 He gave out his personal information 887 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,600 because he wanted to help people. 888 00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,000 Do I think it was a good idea? No. 889 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,720 I warned him very carefully 890 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,880 that this might not be such a good idea. 891 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:45,760 I did that because of the thousands of emails that I receive daily. 892 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,240 I knew what he was in for. 893 00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:57,160 The phone was ringing off the hook. I looked at the answering machine, 894 00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:00,720 wondering why it wasn't answering. And it said, 99. 895 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,520 I began to listen to the messages. 896 00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:06,520 Of course, it was everybody thought that they were possessed 897 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,200 and wanted to talk to him. 898 00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,000 I called Malachi and asked what had gone on. 899 00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,040 He apologised and he said, 900 00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,000 "I didn't want to give my number so I gave yours. 901 00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,200 I promise I'll never do it again." 902 00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,920 I don't think I've ever met a person with such strong charisma. 903 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,480 He drew you in. Very, very charming. 904 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:32,160 Highly intelligent. 905 00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:34,400 Well-versed on so many topics 906 00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,440 in the worldly sphere as well as the spiritual sphere. 907 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,920 I did hear it from the other side 908 00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,760 because I heard from a couple of people 909 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,000 who were absolutely devastated 910 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,320 because he sort of pulled the plug on the relationship. 911 00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:54,680 So, I know how much it hurt the people when that happened. 912 00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,960 Then, of course, I dreaded that that might happen to me. 913 00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,520 I don't know what else I can say but it's true, yes. 914 00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,720 People obviously must've gotten to be too possessive. 915 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:09,760 I can see why. He was absolutely tantalising. 916 00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,720 He was a charming guy who told very witty stories. 917 00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,200 Some of them even fairly obscene. 918 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,720 Because he was so unusual, 919 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,400 most of us around our dinner tables would give him a pass. 920 00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,720 We would say, "That's Malachi. He's just being Malachi." 921 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,920 Unfortunately, 922 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,320 men being men, Malachi Martin being a man, 923 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,680 Malachi Martin "fell in love", 924 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,200 at least he said he did, with my wife. 925 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,840 And so they began an affair. 926 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,200 I didn't want to think that he was having an affair with my wife. 927 00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,320 Therefore, for a good long time, I was in denial. 928 00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:06,800 So, he was just a liar and a scoundrel and a cheat. 929 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,480 I'm glad that I will be judged by our Lord Jesus 930 00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,840 because I don't want to be judged by anyone, I'd be condemned to hell by them. 931 00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,440 Because I'm a filthy pig! 932 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:23,280 I know me better than anybody. I know I don't deserve a darn thing. 933 00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,840 I never saw an ego and I was driving with him 934 00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,400 and I said to him, "Father, I want to attain your holiness," 935 00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,880 and he said to me, 936 00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,240 "I am a wretched pig in the eyes of God." 937 00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:43,920 I almost crashed the car. 938 00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,640 I'm like, if you're a wretched pig, then I'm finished. 939 00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:50,680 There's no way that I am attaining heaven. 940 00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,960 I know this for a fact. 941 00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,360 But he's a warrior, he was a warrior for God, 942 00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,560 and he still is a warrior for God. 943 00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,520 Started out back in 1984. 944 00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:14,360 Graduated from Catholic university 945 00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,120 with a degree in Soviet studies, interestingly enough. 946 00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,640 And from there, I went to work for the US Government 947 00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,000 into the Central Intelligence Agency. 948 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,920 I stayed there till '97. 949 00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,640 A lot of the work was highly classified, 950 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,320 so I am not really at liberty to talk a whole lot about it. 951 00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,200 It's very strange but I haven't been up here in years. 952 00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,080 I am feeling some of those feelings right now. 953 00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,760 So, it's very, very mixed feelings. 954 00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,920 Feelings of fear. 955 00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,600 I always felt there was a limited amount to what I could do to protect him. 956 00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,120 Because after a while, I just came to realise 957 00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,560 what he was up against was not something a government badge 958 00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,160 or a weapon was going to do anything against. 959 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:14,240 You know, the government can train you to do all kinds of things. 960 00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:18,080 But for the things that are in the world we can't see, 961 00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,160 they don't train you for that. 962 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,400 He always referred to NYPD involvement in exorcism 963 00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:30,160 as being a very oblique thing. 964 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,080 Only because he couldn't take the chance 965 00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,160 that someone with loose lips would run 966 00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,600 to the New York Daily News or the New York Post 967 00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,640 and make the claim that the New York City Police Dept 968 00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,360 was helping to cast demons out of people. 969 00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,040 So, his involvement with the New York City Police Dept 970 00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,880 would have been probably more along the lines 971 00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,880 of his interaction with people like Ralph Sarchie. 972 00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,000 But it was never an official policy 973 00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,640 that the NYPD would ever call in an exorcist. 974 00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,360 All of these are my notes. 975 00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:03,920 What this is all about. 976 00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,200 Sometimes it's difficult but most of the times you know 977 00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,640 because of the way the person behaves, 978 00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:13,120 you know they are not mentally ill. There is something else. 979 00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:17,280 And a good exorcist and a good investigator 980 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,480 will get to the bottom of that. 981 00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,080 It might take time but it can be done. 982 00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:32,120 So it must be a priest and he must have authority from the bishop. 983 00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:33,920 I know bishops. We've gone to them and said, 984 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,720 "Look, John so-and-so or Mary so-and-so needs exorcism, 985 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,360 Your Excellency," 986 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,760 but a lot of it is left up to the exorcist. 987 00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,640 At a certain moment, I must turn around and say to you, 988 00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,280 the possessed person, "Who are you?" 989 00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:52,440 An exorcist never answers the question of a possessed person. 990 00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,320 You keep at it and find their names. All of the names. 991 00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,600 Ugly names. Sinister names. Sardonic names. 992 00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,520 Once you do that, you have them nailed. 993 01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,360 Because then they obey that name. They act on counsel of that name. 994 01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,720 Then you proceed to find out who sent them, how did they come here, when, 995 01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,680 what's your speciality, what do you do? 996 01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,080 It's like a dog trying to get away from you. 997 01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,320 It'll bite your hand. It'll bite you mortally if you're not careful. 998 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:28,960 It's amazing how weak people are when facing the supernatural. 999 01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,240 Because once the supernatural manifests itself, 1000 01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:36,440 I've seen strong men collapse in tears. 1001 01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:41,000 It's just too much. Too much. It's very frightening. 1002 01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:45,480 If they measure their intelligence with his intelligence, 1003 01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,560 they are going to be taken captive. 1004 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:55,240 Malachi Martin had a very deep relationship with 1005 01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:59,680 Dr Coomaraswamy on a personal as well as a spiritual level. 1006 01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:03,320 And he knew that Dr Coomaraswamy 1007 01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,120 would never deceive him about anything so... 1008 01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,840 when Rama Coomaraswamy called him up 1009 01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,600 and asked Malachi to come up and meet this young girl... 1010 01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:17,320 ...Malachi didn't hesitate. 1011 01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:22,680 Especially since there was a child at stake here. 1012 01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:24,840 Because a child that young 1013 01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:28,120 cannot make a choice for evil with full consent of the will. 1014 01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:29,480 You can't do it. 1015 01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:31,240 Picture a little kid like that. 1016 01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,080 She can't make a choice like that. 1017 01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,160 That, by the way, that's the other reason why 1018 01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,880 a child like that could never become perfectly possessed. 1019 01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,760 In order to be perfectly possessed, as Malachi would've put it, 1020 01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,280 you have to give your full consent of the will. 1021 01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,880 He was not adventure-seeking. He knew the dangers. 1022 01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:57,280 He knew the perils but he was not in any shape to do that exorcism. 1023 01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:01,000 Physically and spiritually, perhaps he did not have 1024 01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:02,680 adequate protection, either. 1025 01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:04,720 But he put himself on the line 1026 01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:06,920 and in the line of danger 1027 01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:10,760 because there was a little girl and the family didn't have 1028 01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:12,920 or didn't feel they had other recourse. 1029 01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,400 The first feeling I had was dread. 1030 01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:23,360 And it was a building dread. 1031 01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:24,840 And I can't explain why. 1032 01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:29,200 It was like I mentioned. I knew that as the Catholic Church would put it, 1033 01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:30,960 I was in a state of grace. 1034 01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,160 I had nothing to really worry about. 1035 01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,800 But still, I think we have all been in those situations where... 1036 01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:44,000 ...you feel a gnawing sense of unease. 1037 01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:45,960 And it just kept building. 1038 01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:49,480 It just kept building and building. 1039 01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,280 It's power over the will. 1040 01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,920 You don't wake up in the morning and say, gee whiz, I've been possessed. 1041 01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,360 It's always a slow process to which you consent. 1042 01:02:59,960 --> 01:03:04,120 If you open your heart to Satan, he'll accept the invitation. 1043 01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:08,240 It's not... He won't refuse. 1044 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:12,560 If someone is going to allow him in, he'll take it. 1045 01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:14,880 He'll take the opportunity. 1046 01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:22,440 I asked your disciples to cast him out, and they were not able. 1047 01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:28,240 And he asked them, O, faithless generation, how long am I to be with you? 1048 01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:30,560 How long am I to bear with you? 1049 01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:32,400 Bring him to me. 1050 01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,720 And they brought the boy to him, and when the spirit saw him, 1051 01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,520 immediately, he convulsed the boy. 1052 01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:42,560 And he fell on the ground and rolled about, foaming at the mouth. 1053 01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,960 And Jesus asked his father, how long has he had this? 1054 01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:50,080 And he said, since childhood. 1055 01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,280 17 years. 1056 01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:09,080 17 years and at this moment, it feels like it fucking happened yesterday. 1057 01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:15,640 And here we are. 1058 01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:32,680 Oddly enough, I got a tightness in the chest as we approach the house. 1059 01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,960 I also know that it's mixed with a lot of sadness. 1060 01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,160 I mean, on a very real human level, 1061 01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,680 we are talking about a man who, you know, 1062 01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:45,440 for the many years I knew him, 1063 01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:48,200 11, 12, 1064 01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:52,240 he was family to me. He was family. 1065 01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,240 And now I am approaching the point at which he came face to face 1066 01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,240 with something that none of us have ever encountered, 1067 01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,000 that was ultimately responsible for taking his life. 1068 01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:07,760 So I feel a mixture of sadness, 1069 01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,360 a mixture of apprehension... 1070 01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:13,680 ...fear... 1071 01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,680 ...and anger at what happened to him. 1072 01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,920 It took my friend, it took my goddamn best friend away. 1073 01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:47,240 He was my best friend. 1074 01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:54,840 Jesus. 1075 01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,800 Funny thing is, I just thought I'd be a whole lot calmer. 1076 01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:14,600 My heart is racing like a goddamn drum. 1077 01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,080 We pulled in. 1078 01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:24,440 Their van was right there. Actually, it was a Ford Explorer. 1079 01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,760 And we drove up and I just said to Malachi... 1080 01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,680 "Is that them?" Because they were milling about. 1081 01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,480 I said, "They are not supposed to be here." 1082 01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,840 And he didn't say anything and at that point, 1083 01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:42,360 I just knew by the look on his face... that was them. 1084 01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,520 Can you sit in that chair for a second? 1085 01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:58,480 Focus. 1086 01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,720 I was with a group that investigated haunted houses. 1087 01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,120 We almost all had specialties, we had a doctor, 1088 01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,320 a nurse, a psychologist. 1089 01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:10,440 I was more of a videographer. 1090 01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,440 You know, I would take pictures, take video. 1091 01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,800 Help restrain. 1092 01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,200 A producer from ABC came across our website. 1093 01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:20,720 We had a featured article about 1094 01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,000 a possible possession case we were working on. 1095 01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:27,320 And they asked if we were interested in doing a primetime special 1096 01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:29,200 and we said, of course we're interested. 1097 01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:35,240 This is about 20-25 years ago. There were no shows on TV. 1098 01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:38,480 This was all before the paranormal investigators. 1099 01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:42,600 I think we were trailblazers but even in doing the investigations 1100 01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,280 and examinations and assessments of the people, 1101 01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:48,560 I didn't have a role model for that. 1102 01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:52,840 There was no textbook that you can just open up and study. 1103 01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:57,240 I just kind of learned as I went along through experience 1104 01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:00,040 with the different cases, with the different families, 1105 01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:01,960 and with the different people involved. 1106 01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:04,880 There were certain people in the group that felt 1107 01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,560 all the cases that came to us were possessed. 1108 01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:09,840 I personally did not feel that way. 1109 01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:14,240 My personal opinion and my professional opinion at that point, 1110 01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:18,000 I ruled out a significant number of those cases. 1111 01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,960 If you're asking for a ratio, I would say probably... 1112 01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,960 close to two-thirds I would rule out. 1113 01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,560 This is our first exorcism we ever were involved with. 1114 01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,120 We actually went to the house. It wasn't in the church. 1115 01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:32,560 We didn't know what was going to happen 1116 01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:34,520 because the girl didn't believe she was possessed. 1117 01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:37,800 We weren't sure either. She said, I probably won't have any reaction. 1118 01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:46,560 But that morning, it was just a very angry feeling in that room, 1119 01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:51,240 very cold, the temperature in the room dropped many, many times. 1120 01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:53,400 I would vary up and down, up and down. 1121 01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:58,800 As soon as the priest started doing his litany of the saints, 1122 01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:02,120 she started moving around in her chair and screaming, 1123 01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:05,280 breaking out of her restraints and she just stood up like this, 1124 01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:08,360 and broke out of every restraint we had and went towards the priest. 1125 01:09:08,440 --> 01:09:11,120 She was trying to gouge her own eyes out. 1126 01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,960 During that point, I tried to restrain her own hands from doing that. 1127 01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:17,240 She bit me. 1128 01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:45,080 We both got out of the car at the same time. 1129 01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:46,360 I went around to him and he said, 1130 01:09:46,440 --> 01:09:51,840 "Let's do some introductions and then you can leave." 1131 01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:02,520 We got out and we walked over towards where they were. 1132 01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:04,720 The introductions were made. 1133 01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:09,240 Then this little child, she just walks up to Malachi over here. 1134 01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:12,080 She just looks up at him and she says, 1135 01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:15,960 "You're Father Malachi and you think you're going to help me." 1136 01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,720 At that point, I just knew that I was up against something 1137 01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:20,880 that nothing had ever trained me for. 1138 01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:26,400 Malachi kept on acting like she was a perfectly normal little girl. 1139 01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,800 I knew something was off. 1140 01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,360 Did I know she was possessed? No. But I knew something was off. 1141 01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:38,320 We are talking about a four-year-old child. 1142 01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:40,840 She was innocence personified. 1143 01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:43,640 There was no reason why this kid should've been afflicted in this way. 1144 01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,640 Malachi, he just kind of gave me "the look", 1145 01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:51,920 as in, this is my turf now, Bob, 1146 01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,000 you don't need to be here and you shouldn't be here. 1147 01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:57,400 It was not my place to be in there at all. 1148 01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:15,960 One of the realities or the characteristics 1149 01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,880 that you need to see if a person is possessed 1150 01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,280 is one of the signs, you need four signs. 1151 01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:24,520 An extraordinary strength. 1152 01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:28,960 The knowledge of ancient languages. 1153 01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:32,280 Fear of sacred things. 1154 01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:37,520 And the knowledge of hidden or very far-away things. 1155 01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:44,640 I think that the three first can be invented. 1156 01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:47,560 I can fake an extraordinary force. 1157 01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,160 I can talk to you in Latin or Greek. 1158 01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,400 Because I remember it from school. 1159 01:11:52,480 --> 01:11:57,240 I can fake that I am afraid of the crucifix. 1160 01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:59,320 I can fake it. 1161 01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:03,920 But what I cannot invent or cannot fake 1162 01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:08,600 is to know things that really happened in your life 1163 01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:12,000 that is just absolutely impossible for me to know. 1164 01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,840 You always go to the commonsense. 1165 01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:17,960 Maybe she heard us talking. 1166 01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:20,560 She heard a conversation that we had. 1167 01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:24,080 Or maybe her mother knew something about us 1168 01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:28,320 that she just inadvertently blurted out to her. 1169 01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:32,880 Maybe she read something about us on the internet, on the website. 1170 01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:36,680 You try to have those commonsense approaches to things. 1171 01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:40,480 But sometimes you just know there's no way they could've known that. 1172 01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,240 There are very personal things about our families, 1173 01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,560 personal events that have happened that morning. 1174 01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:48,920 There's no possible way. 1175 01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,600 Something I didn't even talk about with my colleagues. 1176 01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:55,080 How would they know that? 1177 01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:57,200 I can't explain it. 1178 01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:01,480 One of the things that convinced me that there is something to this, 1179 01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:04,080 in very rare cases, there is something to this, 1180 01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:09,280 beyond simple superstition or active imagination, 1181 01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,560 was the fact that I was able to interview people 1182 01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:15,320 who were not Catholic priests, who were sceptics, 1183 01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:17,200 who were scientists, 1184 01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,960 who themselves had these experiences. 1185 01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:21,320 And they couldn't explain them. 1186 01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:23,640 They were matching up with what the exorcists 1187 01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:25,800 were saying they were seeing themselves. 1188 01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:31,760 The real horror, the real pain, 1189 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:32,880 what hurts in possession 1190 01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:36,720 is the presence of the Evil One. 1191 01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:40,600 And when we start an exorcism, 1192 01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:44,800 within the first 20 minutes, we know whether it's genuine or not. 1193 01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:49,160 Suddenly, it becomes evident. How evident... 1194 01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:54,240 Like an invisible animal clawing at you with claws you can't esacpe. 1195 01:13:56,040 --> 01:14:00,000 There are physical manifestations like change in temperature, 1196 01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:04,120 smells, odours, objects flying around, 1197 01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:07,720 and then there's violence on the part of the possessed person at times. 1198 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:09,160 They have to be held down. 1199 01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:11,480 That's why you have assistants who are not afraid. 1200 01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:18,000 Because a lot of people the moment they enter their first exorcism, 1201 01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:23,200 it scares them, it's the most unhealthy, insalubrious, 1202 01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:27,960 mucky, dirty, inhuman activity you could participate in, 1203 01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:30,400 but we must in order to save these people. 1204 01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:33,560 The exorcist and his assistants and the possessed person 1205 01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:37,560 are in the presence of something that hates us 1206 01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:41,000 in a way that you've never felt hated before. 1207 01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,280 When you get beyond the sensational, like I did, 1208 01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:54,840 when I was watching these exorcisms, 1209 01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,160 it's one of the things that really stand out in your mind, 1210 01:14:57,240 --> 01:14:59,800 these people are suffering. 1211 01:14:59,880 --> 01:15:03,360 And you, from a human level, 1212 01:15:03,440 --> 01:15:05,360 you want to help them get better. 1213 01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:12,800 We are tested often times. 1214 01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:14,560 That morning was no different. 1215 01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:18,480 That exorcism went on for a number of hours, I believe. 1216 01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:22,640 But afterwards, there was such a change in the room. 1217 01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:25,040 It was absolutely beautiful. 1218 01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,200 Words cannot even describe the change. 1219 01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:37,000 When they first approached us, I think we were more excited to be on TV. 1220 01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:41,680 And after it came out, we saw the impact that it had 1221 01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:44,640 and how many people were in need around the country. 1222 01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:46,800 They said they can't find help in their area. 1223 01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,800 We are talking about real people who are suffering. 1224 01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:54,800 Real people who want healing. 1225 01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:57,400 Those people deserve peace. 1226 01:15:57,480 --> 01:16:00,120 Those people implore for peace 1227 01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:02,240 that only the Church can give 1228 01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:05,160 when they are in these grave situations. 1229 01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:18,440 I came back for him two hours later. 1230 01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,400 At the time, it was a beautiful summer day. I came down the driveway 1231 01:16:22,480 --> 01:16:26,480 in my Jeep. I just remember there was a Ford Explorer. 1232 01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:28,600 It was a tan vehicle. It was parked right about here, 1233 01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:32,320 caddy-corner almost facing that house in the background. 1234 01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:36,320 And everyone was out, starting to say their goodbyes. 1235 01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,880 I saw them proceeding out from the house in the back there. 1236 01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:42,280 I pulled up right over here. 1237 01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,720 I got out and I saw Malachi talking to the parents first. 1238 01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,640 Then the parents were getting in the vehicle 1239 01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:50,920 and they were helping the little child into the vehicle 1240 01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:54,800 into the back seat, and the mother had rolled the window down, 1241 01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,560 and Malachi, after he had said goodbye to the parents, 1242 01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:00,120 he had walked over to say goodbye to the child, 1243 01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:01,800 and I remember when the window went down, 1244 01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:04,480 just as he got there to the window, 1245 01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:06,240 as the glass came down, 1246 01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:08,720 I remember her face kind of framed in the window. 1247 01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:14,120 She just blew him a kiss, it was disgusting, lascivious, 1248 01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,920 it was like something was defiling innocence at that moment. 1249 01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,120 The kind of way you imagine a whore blowing a kiss to a john 1250 01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:24,360 who had just paid her 100 bucks. That's what it was. 1251 01:17:24,440 --> 01:17:26,960 Malachi was completely nonplussed. 1252 01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:31,840 It is extremely rare 1253 01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:35,880 for a four-year-old to have a mental illness at that age. 1254 01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:37,720 I don't know the particulars of this case 1255 01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,280 but if she was sexually provocative at the age of four, 1256 01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:44,040 that could be a learned behaviour through sexual abuse. 1257 01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:47,360 But again, at the age of four, 1258 01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:51,320 it's very rare for a child of that age 1259 01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:53,480 for it to be explained by mental illness. 1260 01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:56,480 Or again, substance abuse. 1261 01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:59,400 Substance-induced psychosis. 1262 01:17:59,480 --> 01:18:01,640 Schizophrenia. Things of that nature. 1263 01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:05,320 To the sceptics, I would say that the people that I met that day, 1264 01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:09,440 they seemed like in every way, the all-American family. 1265 01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:11,840 There was nothing to indicate anything like that. 1266 01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:15,880 Something went on in the conversations inside the house 1267 01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:20,720 that convinced a senior exorcist of the Roman Catholic Church 1268 01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,360 and Dr Rama Coomaraswamy, 1269 01:18:23,440 --> 01:18:25,800 an actual medical psychiatrist, 1270 01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:29,720 that something was afflicting this girl that was not of this world 1271 01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,240 and could not be explained by modern medical science. 1272 01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:40,840 We went up the driveway and I said, 1273 01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:44,520 "Do you think it's an authentic case of possession, Mal?" 1274 01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:47,080 And he said, "I've got no doubt." 1275 01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:49,320 He said, "But this one is going to be difficult." 1276 01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:53,600 I remember... my phrase for that was, hammer and tongs. 1277 01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:56,520 I said, "You're talking hammer and tongs?" He said yeah. 1278 01:18:56,600 --> 01:19:00,120 And then he just kind of nodded and he was quiet for a while, 1279 01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:01,880 as we drove off. 1280 01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:17,160 People would be inclined to think 1281 01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:19,560 that the hostage is the person possessed. 1282 01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:24,120 But actually, no, it's the priest who does the exorcism. 1283 01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:31,200 Malachi had been the subject of several heart operations. 1284 01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,920 He always tried to come across as very robust. 1285 01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:37,840 But you know these things, exorcisms, 1286 01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:39,400 they have to take a toll on you. 1287 01:19:39,480 --> 01:19:44,360 It's just that once you realise you are dealing with a reality here 1288 01:19:44,440 --> 01:19:46,760 then you realise there is a price to be paid 1289 01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,440 and every exorcism took a little chunk out of his life. 1290 01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:52,800 And so, for Malachi, his own personal health 1291 01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:54,640 was never a concern to him. 1292 01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:57,920 It was of paramount concern to the people around him. 1293 01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:04,560 He was told by the doctor to take it easier 1294 01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:07,000 and to cut out a lot of what he was doing. 1295 01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:10,640 But it's an element of the true priest 1296 01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:14,840 needs to be another Christ, that is what he is called to be. 1297 01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:17,000 To lay your life on the line. 1298 01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:26,200 The more he would help people, the more he would become a target. 1299 01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:28,440 It affects their personal lives, 1300 01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:30,640 it affects everything about them. 1301 01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:32,960 And it's a very isolating world. 1302 01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:52,880 The phone rang that morning 1303 01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:54,680 and it was Malachi's voice on the other end, 1304 01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:58,040 speaking in a very strained, weak voice. 1305 01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:01,880 His exact words were, "Bob, I've taken a bit of a tumble." 1306 01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:04,120 And I said, "What do you mean?" 1307 01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:07,240 He said, "I've hit my head. I was reaching for a book, 1308 01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:09,720 standing on a stool in my study, 1309 01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:12,720 and I had the stool knocked out from under me." 1310 01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:14,800 "What do you mean, it was pushed out from under you?" 1311 01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:17,760 He said, "Old Scratch wasn't terribly happy 1312 01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:19,400 with what we just did up in Connecticut." 1313 01:21:19,480 --> 01:21:24,280 I know that some people said that he claimed that someone pushed him. 1314 01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:29,320 What is unclear about that, of course, is whether it was an evil spirit 1315 01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:31,200 or a human. 1316 01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:36,280 Some said that he was pushed off the ladder. 1317 01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:44,560 Done in because he had this terrible history behind him. 1318 01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:46,680 They wanted to shut him up. 1319 01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:48,840 I know it was horrific. 1320 01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,960 He said he wanted me to know that... 1321 01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:55,600 he hadn't fallen, it wasn't a fall. 1322 01:21:55,680 --> 01:22:01,520 This creature had grabbed him... 1323 01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:06,560 ...just above his ankle and caused him to fall. 1324 01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:11,800 When he went to the hospital, he lapsed into a coma. 1325 01:22:13,480 --> 01:22:16,480 They were restricting the access of people 1326 01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:19,840 into his room, a semi-private room in Lennox Hill Hospital. 1327 01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:25,280 I am not ashamed to say I was bawling like a little child. 1328 01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:27,760 Here was my best friend in a coma. 1329 01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:32,840 I knew he wasn't hearing me with his ears. 1330 01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:34,720 Hopefully, he was hearing me with his soul. 1331 01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:40,600 I had a tremendous sense in that room that a struggle was continuing. 1332 01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:42,720 Even though he was comatose. 1333 01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:47,520 That's why the prayers that we made 1334 01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:51,760 and we sent to protect him were so important. 1335 01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:56,640 About a day and a half later, 1336 01:22:56,720 --> 01:23:00,800 I just got a call, I believe, from his agent, Lila, 1337 01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:02,920 that Malachi had passed away. 1338 01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:08,680 I remember just hanging up the phone and going into my office at home 1339 01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:12,480 and just praying the rosary immediately for his soul. 1340 01:23:15,640 --> 01:23:19,520 We have the intent to want to receive God. 1341 01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:22,080 It doesn't hold any weight with Jesus? 1342 01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:28,440 When I heard that he had passed on to his final reward, 1343 01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:30,520 because that's what he got, 1344 01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:32,920 you know, I was sad to see him go 1345 01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:36,560 and it scared me a little bit because I lost one of my mentors now. 1346 01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:38,800 It's like, uh-oh, you know? 1347 01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:42,960 What do I do now if I come upon something that I don't know? 1348 01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:46,440 But I miss him and I would like to talk to him 1349 01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:48,560 and I still do talk to him. 1350 01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:02,200 I think he knew what he was doing, he knew the risks 1351 01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:04,960 and yet he went for it. 1352 01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,920 Personally, I feel it was a great victory for the Adversary. 1353 01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:14,520 I think that he was taken too soon and prematurely. 1354 01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:19,880 And the Adversary hit its mark in that. 1355 01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:21,400 So, it was a great tragedy. 1356 01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:35,800 Father Martin had told me about this particular case. 1357 01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:38,000 The girl was four years old at the time. 1358 01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:42,280 When she was eight, four years later, I assisted at her exorcism. 1359 01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:48,800 This girl needed years and years of exorcism. 1360 01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:51,360 There was no doubt about that. We weren't dealing with a demon. 1361 01:24:51,440 --> 01:24:54,840 We were dealing with the Devil here and he was very, very powerful. 1362 01:25:07,480 --> 01:25:10,240 She spoke fluent Latin during that exorcism. 1363 01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:15,760 I can produce eight-year-old children that can speak fluent Latin 1364 01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:19,720 but they're traditional, they've been trained since first grade 1365 01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:21,560 on how to speak Latin. 1366 01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:24,200 I know this particular girl didn't have that background. 1367 01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:26,680 She was actually. 1368 01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:29,600 - Who taught you that? - No one. 1369 01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:32,320 - No one? - No one. 1370 01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:35,000 - Not your father or anybody? - No. 1371 01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:37,440 How do you know it, then? 1372 01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:40,080 Mmm. I just know it. 1373 01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:46,400 Speaking in a language that is not known previously to that person 1374 01:25:46,480 --> 01:25:49,800 is a surefire sign of demonic possession. 1375 01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:52,280 From what I seen during the exorcism, 1376 01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:56,800 we did get that proof right out of the playbook of the Roman ritual. 1377 01:25:59,880 --> 01:26:04,000 This particular case was definitely on a different level. 1378 01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:07,440 I do hope that she did find the relief that she sought. 1379 01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:11,960 Most of all, I hope her soul belongs to God at this moment, 1380 01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:14,480 no matter what her physical condition is. 1381 01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:17,400 I hope that her soul belongs to God. 1382 01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:22,480 I adjure you, Devil. 1383 01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:24,800 - You want me to say it? - Yes. 1384 01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:27,360 I adjure you, Devil. 1385 01:26:27,440 --> 01:26:29,440 - To be gone. - To be gone. 1386 01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:32,000 - And leave me alone. - And leave me alone. 1387 01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:35,320 - Now and for ever. - Now and for ever. 1388 01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:37,880 - I hate you. - I hate you. 1389 01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:41,360 - And you are a Devil. - And you are a Devil. 1390 01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:43,080 Amen. 1391 01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:58,320 If you contact the HQ of the Jesuits in Rome, the Jesuit curia, 1392 01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:01,040 which is a large building in the shadow of the Vatican, 1393 01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:03,200 they will give you a number of facts, 1394 01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:05,360 if they choose to give you any information at all. 1395 01:27:05,440 --> 01:27:08,560 They'll tell you that Malachi Martin was a Jesuit priest. 1396 01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:11,920 They'll tell you that he was in Rome between certain dates 1397 01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:15,360 but they are not certain of the role or the authority which he had. 1398 01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:19,240 They will tell you that he did, at a stage, work on the Dead Sea Scrolls. 1399 01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:24,240 According to the Jesuits, when Malachi Martin left Rome in 1965, 1400 01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:27,000 he was no longer a priest. 1401 01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:30,880 Malachi Martin had no right 1402 01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:33,320 legitimately to perform exorcisms 1403 01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:37,560 unless by express permission from the local bishop. 1404 01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:49,720 It's hard for some characters to get off the stage. 1405 01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:51,880 If you know when to get off the stage, 1406 01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:54,680 still leaving some questions in the mind of the audience, 1407 01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:56,680 you've done pretty well. 1408 01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:06,600 According to the Jesuits, Father Martin was no longer a priest 1409 01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:08,320 when he left them in '65, 1410 01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:10,680 basically, once you're a priest, you're always a priest. 1411 01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:15,480 Father Martin never renounced his vows. 1412 01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:18,080 As a matter of fact, he probably strengthened them 1413 01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:19,720 from the outside of the Church. 1414 01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:21,920 Which is where God wanted him. 1415 01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:23,720 They don't like it but that's the truth. 1416 01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:37,080 I think we are all blessed with intuition and instinct. 1417 01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:42,120 So, when we walk into a room and there is someone afflicted in that room, 1418 01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:44,960 you know it, you feel it, you see it. 1419 01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:47,360 Sometimes you know it before you even see the person, 1420 01:28:47,440 --> 01:28:49,600 before you even go into the room. 1421 01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:52,480 Sometimes you know it when you are driving up to the house. 1422 01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:54,800 It's just a gut feeling. 1423 01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,040 I believe that to be all the source within us 1424 01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:01,880 responding to what source is not. 1425 01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:09,200 I've noticed in all the evidence I have tried to present to the public 1426 01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:12,000 they are either going to believe or not going to believe. 1427 01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:14,000 It's very hard to change somebody's beliefs. 1428 01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:17,320 But just getting the word out is all you can do. 1429 01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:20,960 If you can help somebody along the way, that's great. 1430 01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:22,480 I've been doing this for 20 years. 1431 01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:25,040 If I helped one person who was genuinely possessed, 1432 01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:26,640 it's all worth it. 1433 01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:33,240 These are very, very sophisticated spirits 1434 01:29:33,320 --> 01:29:37,720 who are there to harm us. And they're real. 1435 01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:47,320 One thing I have noticed is that since his death, 1436 01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:51,360 interest in his work and in him has not really diminished. 1437 01:29:51,440 --> 01:29:56,120 He was absolutely confident in everything he said. 1438 01:29:56,200 --> 01:30:00,160 He used the means at his disposal, which were the media, 1439 01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:01,760 to get the message across. 1440 01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:03,600 So it was his confidence in what he was saying 1441 01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:06,440 that really struck you. 1442 01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:09,920 And there is a certain element of mystery. 1443 01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:15,520 He was a fascinating man. 1444 01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:18,280 He also said a lot of things to me in private... 1445 01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:21,320 We did talk a great deal. 1446 01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:26,680 He shared some of those which I cannot share with you or anybody 1447 01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:28,840 because I promised. 1448 01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:34,520 What he did say, if you want something chilling, 1449 01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:38,320 he said, imagine the very worst you can imagine 1450 01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:43,240 and then I will tell you that it's going to be much worse than that. 1451 01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:48,760 I think that if one looks at these tapes, 1452 01:30:48,840 --> 01:30:51,520 we may touch on the evidence that we now have 1453 01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:54,240 that Satan is having his last stand. 1454 01:30:54,320 --> 01:30:56,600 This is his Waterloo and he is going to kill a lot, 1455 01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:59,160 destroy much, scorched-earth policy! 1456 01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:03,040 Destroy as much as he can before he shoved into the abyss again, 1457 01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:04,400 chained by Michael! 1458 01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:12,720 I do believe that Malachi Martin started to believe his own lies. 1459 01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:16,760 He was so convincing. Some people didn't exactly hate him. 1460 01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:21,360 They felt sorry for him because he had gone off the rail. 1461 01:31:21,440 --> 01:31:24,840 I guess the charisma was truth. 1462 01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:29,840 Because that's really what he... 1463 01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:34,280 That was his message. His message was the truth. 1464 01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:39,040 And everyone had to make that decision. 1465 01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:40,880 Whom do you believe? 1466 01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:43,280 This man tells the truth. Whom do you believe? 1467 01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:49,400 In many ways, his life was a war. 1468 01:31:49,480 --> 01:31:53,920 But it's a war story but it's a war against what Christ said 1469 01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:57,400 is against the powers and the principalities not of this world. 1470 01:31:57,480 --> 01:32:01,440 And he dedicated himself 150% to that. 1471 01:32:02,440 --> 01:32:05,720 He was just the most fascinating person I've ever met in my life. 1472 01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:07,320 Hands down. 1473 01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:09,000 That's it. 1474 01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:16,120 There is hope, more than hope. We have surety. 1475 01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:22,680 We are assured that everything is going to be optimum and better than it was before. 1476 01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:25,840 But we also have the assurance that Christ had 1477 01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:28,040 when he knew that he would rise again on the third day 1478 01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:31,120 and ascend gloriously into heaven and reign for ever... 1479 01:32:31,200 --> 01:32:33,920 He knew and we know that in between us, 1480 01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:38,240 and that successful outcome of our present... 1481 01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:40,720 quandary and misery is going to be extremely painful. 1482 01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,480 We know that from history, we know that from scripture. 1483 01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:48,640 We know that the worst is yet to come before it turns around. 1484 01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:52,840 So we are commenting on a dire situation into which we have been plunged. 1485 01:32:52,920 --> 01:32:56,440 Not by God, but by the mistakes of men, the mistakes of popes, 1486 01:32:56,520 --> 01:32:58,960 the mistakes of bishops, the mistakes of priests, 1487 01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:01,480 the mistakes of nuns and the mistakes of lay people. 1488 01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:04,080 Everybody has their share in it. 1489 01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:08,560 But God's law is that he punishes the whole race 1490 01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:10,360 for the sins of the few. 1491 01:33:29,440 --> 01:33:32,560 There is one more thing about Lucifer 1492 01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:34,760 which we should remember, and it's this. 1493 01:33:36,200 --> 01:33:38,520 We have no protection against him. 1494 01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:40,520 Of ourselves. 1495 01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:42,400 No one can match him. 1496 01:33:42,480 --> 01:33:44,160 On this earth. 1497 01:33:44,240 --> 01:33:45,560 No one. 1498 01:33:53,320 --> 01:33:54,720 I am sorry 1499 01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:57,840 for having offended thee. 1500 01:33:57,920 --> 01:34:01,200 And I detest my sins 1501 01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:04,200 above every other evil 1502 01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:08,560 because they displease thee, my God. 1503 01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:11,520 And I firmly resolve, 1504 01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:14,200 by thy holy grace, 1505 01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:17,720 never more to offend thee, 1506 01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:21,200 but to amend my life. Amen. 1507 01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:43,680 My friends, this is the blessed sacrament. 1508 01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:47,800 I always carry it with me. 1509 01:34:47,880 --> 01:34:50,960 He has been with us all this time. 1510 01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:52,360 Amen. 1511 01:34:52,440 --> 01:34:55,560 - Okay. - Thank you! 1512 01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:58,760 I didn't know that. I didn't know he'd been with us. 1513 01:34:58,840 --> 01:35:01,880 Father Martin carries the big guns. 127857

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