Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,800
He was just the most fascinating
person I've ever met in my life.
2
00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:11,480
He was Malachi Martin.
There is one Malachi Martin.
3
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,560
He drew you in.
Very, very charming.
4
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:24,320
He was a warrior for God
and he still is a warrior for God.
5
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:32,040
He was a great mythomaniac.
He was a liar and a scoundrel.
6
00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,600
And a cheat.
7
00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,520
Good evening.
Tonight we have a very special guest
8
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,640
and it's my true honour and pleasure
to have made his acquaintance.
9
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:41,800
He is considered one of
10
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,320
the most knowledgeable experts
on the Vatican in the world.
11
00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,640
He is, first of all,
a very eminent theologian.
12
00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,080
Expert on the Catholic Church,
former Jesuit,
13
00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,640
and professor at the Vatican's
Pontifical Biblical Institute.
14
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:57,440
He is author of national bestsellers
Vatican: The Final Conclave,
15
00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,680
Hostage To The Devil
and The Jesuits.
16
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,000
He is also an exorcist.
17
00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:06,280
Exorcism is a healing.
18
00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:10,280
And it's a very horrid healing.
But it does heal.
19
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,360
Inside it is a living hell.
20
00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:17,600
It's a living hell.
21
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,480
The truth is,
whether we like it or not,
22
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,600
the Devil does exist.
23
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,840
He is out there, he is our enemy,
24
00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:30,480
and he hates us.
25
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,800
His aim is to destroy our souls.
26
00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,160
This is a reality that does exist.
27
00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,880
It's not everybody
but there are real cases.
28
00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,560
That's why the rite of exorcism exists.
29
00:02:43,640 --> 00:02:46,120
If the Church didn't believe it,
it wouldn't do it.
30
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:47,560
It wouldn't even worry about it.
31
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:50,520
I don't believe that words teach.
32
00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,800
Words don't teach.
Experience teaches.
33
00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,400
I think people have to have
their own experiences.
34
00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:03,920
I also know that once someone
encounters that evil presence,
35
00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,920
they know what exists
and what doesn't.
36
00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,840
There is a lot of scurrilous
information out there on the Internet
37
00:03:13,920 --> 00:03:16,840
about Malachi that basically
maligns him,
38
00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:20,480
his character as well as
himself, his person.
39
00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,480
And this is part of
setting the record straight.
40
00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,720
In addition to being my friend,
he was a good and holy man.
41
00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,040
I just want to set the record
straight on that.
42
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,840
We did not talk
an awful lot about his exorcism
43
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:37,320
except the last one.
44
00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,600
I kept asking him not to do it.
45
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,000
And he kept saying,
"I am only going to be an assistant."
46
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,600
Not much chance of that.
47
00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,800
An exorcist
has to be a very holy priest.
48
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,000
Protected by the graces of the Church.
49
00:03:58,080 --> 00:03:59,760
And I think, again, in that last exorcism
50
00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,560
that he was involved with,
51
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,680
I still believe that Malachi
was the target.
52
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,400
Not that little girl. She was the bait.
53
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,640
Is it the way we saw it in The Exorcist?
54
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,600
That's a purely fictional account
based on no fact.
55
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,040
I have never seen the head
turning back 180 degrees.
56
00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,040
Perhaps we could begin
57
00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:51,920
by you telling us a bit about yourself,
58
00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,400
your background,
59
00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,880
and some of the activities
that you are currently engaged in.
60
00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,280
I think I am going to bore you
but somebody listening to this tape
61
00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,680
doesn't know about me so I suppose
we should cover the essentials.
62
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,400
I was born in Ireland, in Kerry,
70 years ago.
63
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,480
70 years ago. Don't forget
the 70, seven-zero.
64
00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,600
I was educated in Ireland
and I joined the Jesuits in Ireland,
65
00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:16,400
just before the war began,
and then after the war,
66
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:18,480
having done my philosophy,
they sent me to Belgium
67
00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,440
for my studies, and then,
when I was finished,
68
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,760
they posted me to Rome
to the Pontifical Biblical Institute.
69
00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:28,400
That's an institute in the Vatican
which trains professors of scripture.
70
00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,360
It's fallen on evil days
as regards doctrine.
71
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,360
If you were an American Catholic
in 1955,
72
00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:37,240
the world would have looked
extraordinary to you.
73
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,520
Huge numbers of converts
were flowing into the Church.
74
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,840
Churches were being built
at a huge rate.
75
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:43,680
Then the Vatican Council took place,
76
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,160
which was to renew
and reinvigorate the Church,
77
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,200
which was already growing hugely.
78
00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:52,040
And bang, within a couple of years,
it all goes terribly wrong.
79
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,760
Churches are being closed. Nuns
and priests flocking out of the church.
80
00:05:55,840 --> 00:05:57,760
The religious orders are winding down.
81
00:05:57,840 --> 00:06:01,400
Every social problem which the Catholic
Church felt it had already solved
82
00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,320
came back to bite it.
83
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,240
The Council was not
a boy-scout jamboree.
84
00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:12,120
It was a collection of very human beings
85
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:16,000
who were involved in a battle
for the future of the Church.
86
00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:21,440
They were talking about making
the Church more human.
87
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,800
More up-to-date. More modern.
More with-it.
88
00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,800
More of service to the world
instead of to dominate.
89
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,720
That was a very exciting time
in the history of the Church.
90
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,880
Malachi Martin
was of immense help in helping me
91
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,960
discover some of those people
who were out there making it happen.
92
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,320
Making the revolution happen.
93
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,520
- This was Vatican II?
- Vatican II.
94
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:52,120
1962 to 1965, fomented
by the popes in question.
95
00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,240
And by the cardinals.
96
00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,920
The spirit amongst them was,
at all costs,
97
00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,080
by all means,
let's get with the world.
98
00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:06,400
We've been isolated.
Let's modernise everything.
99
00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:10,240
And in order to do that,
in the Vatican Council,
100
00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:14,000
they jettisoned sacred traditions
that had always been traditions
101
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:18,080
in the Catholic Church
back to the time of the first popes.
102
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:19,760
In the first century.
103
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,160
He was from Ireland.
104
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,560
He came from quite a large
brood of children.
105
00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,560
As far as I know, he had only
one sister. I may be wrong.
106
00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,480
But he had a number of brothers,
107
00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,680
all of whom became rather
well-read and religious,
108
00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,640
Catholic-religious in their own right.
109
00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,920
The Martin brothers.
And Malachi was no slouch either.
110
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,160
He was following, pretty much,
in his brothers' tradition.
111
00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,040
He was like a young,
clerical Indiana Jones,
112
00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:52,920
crawling around caves in the Middle East.
113
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,600
He was one of the original people
114
00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,800
who helped decipher
the Dead Sea Scrolls.
115
00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:58,960
He spoke multiple languages.
116
00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,280
He was always
an unswervingly loyal Catholic.
117
00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,360
Loyal to the Papacy.
Loyal to our Lady in Christ.
118
00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,720
That formed his belief system
down to his core.
119
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,440
He definitely cut a very sexy figure.
120
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,680
At parties,
he would be the life of the party.
121
00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,080
Telling his dirty jokes.
122
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,360
I became a good detective,
123
00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,200
as I was, in fact,
a good correspondent for Time magazine.
124
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,120
I got to the bottom of everything.
125
00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:40,720
He had all these stories,
some of which even turned out to be true!
126
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:47,080
Kaiser was a stringer for Time magazine
127
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,960
during Vatican Council II.
128
00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,600
Kaiser was very deeply involved
with the Jesuits.
129
00:08:54,680 --> 00:08:59,880
The Jesuits had always been afraid
that when Malachi left,
130
00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:03,120
he would just spill the beans
about everybody.
131
00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,040
Because he knew about everybody
in Rome.
132
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,920
So, I think that they decided
133
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,800
that they would get him
before he could get them.
134
00:09:10,880 --> 00:09:13,800
And all of that came together to fuel
135
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,440
Kaiser's means by which he was able
to express the hatred
136
00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,040
and do as much damage
as he felt he could do to Malachi.
137
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,760
I just got deeper into the character
of Malachi Martin.
138
00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,840
And so I wrote this book.
It's called Clerical Error.
139
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,760
And the error was not only his error,
140
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,920
but mine in not being alive enough
141
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,360
to the reality.
142
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,320
I decided that this was
too good a story to pass up
143
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:49,520
and that only I could tell it
because only I had the whole story
144
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:50,880
in hand.
145
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:57,800
Only I had the willingness
to dig to the bottom of the story
146
00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,600
and get it out there.
147
00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:04,480
And so I thought it might even
make a good movie.
148
00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:07,760
It would probably make
a good documentary.
149
00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,720
Because it is a fascinating tale.
150
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:13,520
True or not.
151
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,240
He made it clear that the reason
why he left the Jesuit order,
152
00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,600
in particular, was because
in the 1960s,
153
00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:26,800
the Jesuits, as with a lot
of other organisations back then,
154
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,480
took a very hard-left turn,
and I asked, I said,
155
00:10:29,560 --> 00:10:32,320
"So, you could say
that after Vatican II, Mal,
156
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,520
the Jesuits were in left field?"
157
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,880
And he kind of smiled and said,
"No, they weren't in left field.
158
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:38,480
They were outside the baseball stadium."
159
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,160
Pope John said he thought
that Malachi should leave Rome.
160
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,120
Not the priesthood but leave Rome.
161
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,680
Because he said, "If you stay..."
162
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:52,760
I am saying this on camera, but anyway...
163
00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:57,200
"If you stay, you will become
another fat cardinal
164
00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,080
with another mistress
living outside of Rome."
165
00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,440
He thought the best way for him
to remedy this from his own perspective
166
00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,920
was to get a document
from Pope Paul VI
167
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,760
that he called a rescript in Latin.
168
00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:16,560
What that did was release him
from two of his three vows as a priest.
169
00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,800
It released him
from the vow of obedience.
170
00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,040
So he could leave the Jesuit order.
171
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,400
And it released him
from the vow of poverty,
172
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,400
because he would then
be able to make his way
173
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,200
pursuing a secular lifestyle
as an author in the West.
174
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:36,440
The only one of his vows that he kept to
and maintained until he died
175
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:37,800
was his vow of chastity.
176
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,520
He maintained that until his death.
177
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:48,120
Priests are human beings,
first of all.
178
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,560
Human beings go through
all sorts of changes of mood
179
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,520
throughout their lives.
180
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,840
Privacy and the respecting of someone's
privacy is absolutely paramount.
181
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,160
Because I know that the relationship
between a priest
182
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,520
and his superior includes
all sorts of private information.
183
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,360
And I know that priests are
frequently given dispensations.
184
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:12,600
I personally would like
to see more evidence
185
00:12:12,680 --> 00:12:16,120
that he was released
from two but not from three vows.
186
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,480
I simply would find it unusual
187
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,080
that he had been released
from two and not from the third.
188
00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,720
In 1964, I came over to America
189
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:43,400
and became an American citizen,
190
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,000
and I settled down in New York
and I write books here.
191
00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:47,440
I do TV and radio.
192
00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,440
You have written
a lot of books,
193
00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:55,680
and particularly the books concerning
Roman Catholicism and the Vatican.
194
00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:56,960
That's right.
195
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,080
When he first came, he had
no money, he had nothing.
196
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,920
He earned money the way he could.
197
00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,560
He washed dishes and drove a cab.
198
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:09,280
He did what he could to make a living.
199
00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,520
He worked at the Encyclopedia Britannica
200
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:15,840
but he did not like that.
201
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,640
He said it was just taking
somebody else's knowledge
202
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,240
and stuffing it in a book.
203
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,160
He didn't want to do that.
He wanted to do his own work.
204
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,240
So, that didn't work out for him.
205
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,760
When I met him, it wasn't
his plan to be a writer.
206
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:37,160
And I began to talk to him
about a writing career.
207
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,160
I said that if he would give me
a certain amount of time,
208
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,560
I would make him a successful writer.
209
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:45,320
But it takes time to do that.
210
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,600
He and I worked together then
for 30 years.
211
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:55,640
As friends, and first I was
his editor and publisher,
212
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,280
and when I left
the publishing side of publishing,
213
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,400
to become an agent,
he became my client.
214
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,200
I say mass every morning.
I'm a priest. I say my breviary.
215
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:10,320
The usual things.
That's about the sum total of it all.
216
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,600
I've published 15 books.
I am preparing a 16th.
217
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:16,160
That's my life story.
It's very uneventful.
218
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,760
But it's my life.
219
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,240
This is a man with a very clear analysis
of what is happening.
220
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:26,560
He is putting words
to people's sense of unease
221
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,000
at the apparent implosion
of this perfect, huge church,
222
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,960
which, let's remember,
until a few years previously,
223
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,680
Catholicism was claiming it would be
the official religion of America.
224
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,880
Here comes Malachi Martin,
with all his skills,
225
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,080
analysis, intelligence and eloquence,
226
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:46,200
giving answers, and that is why
he made such a huge impact
227
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,360
and that's why many people
found he was a natural leader for them.
228
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,920
There is a new generation of people
who don't know what they should believe.
229
00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,240
The Catholic Church's only strength
was unity. Unity.
230
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:01,520
It's gone.
231
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,480
First off, people would
kill to be with Malachi Martin.
232
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,800
He meant a lot to a lot of people.
He brought the faith to them.
233
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,440
My first encounter with Father Martin
was a result of a priest
234
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:22,800
we both knew
at St Agnes Church in New York.
235
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:26,240
We were chatting one evening and he said,
"Would you like to meet Malachi?
236
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:27,920
I know him.
You can share a meal with him."
237
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,720
We just got fairly well acquainted
over the course of that dinner.
238
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:36,320
In fact, it went so late that they
politely asked us around 11:30pm
239
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,240
would we mind leaving the restaurant
because the staff wanted to go home?
240
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,160
He was that kind of storyteller.
241
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,320
He was a very gentle, soft person.
242
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,480
He had a charming Irish accent
243
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,920
which absolutely fascinated me.
244
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,400
I never knew him like an equal.
245
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:57,440
To me, he was a mentor,
he was an advisor,
246
00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:58,880
he was a spiritual director,
247
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:00,280
somebody I looked up to.
248
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:06,560
But he wasn't a friend, like
a colleague on the same level.
249
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,640
He was a friend,
and a very dear friend.
250
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,400
The fact that he was there
when my daughter died.
251
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,960
She was a newborn.
She only lived two weeks.
252
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,040
I wouldn't have been able
to hold it together,
253
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,080
I think, if Father Martin
hadn't been there.
254
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,800
And again, he didn't have to do that.
It was the middle of the night.
255
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,960
He jumped in a cab
and came all the way downtown
256
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,960
to be with us, and to accompany us,
257
00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,280
as we spent my daughter's
final moments here,
258
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:37,920
and as she went on.
259
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,480
Tonight, I want to get off on a little bit
different tangent
260
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,040
and talk about your past experiences
as an exorcist.
261
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:47,920
Yes, that is a fascinating thing.
262
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,880
It's always fascinating
for a lot of people.
263
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:54,680
We must tell them beforehand
that exorcism and possession
264
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,720
is not a joy, is not a happy thing.
265
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,960
Possession is a dirty, insalubrious,
266
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,800
unhealthy, mucky
and unpleasant situation
267
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:07,800
where you come across it.
268
00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,000
But it is a necessary evil
in the sense that
269
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,040
we have to deal with it
once we meet people with it.
270
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,240
I met him one afternoon
271
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,360
and he had a fresh cut on his forehead
272
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,400
and I asked him what had happened.
273
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:22,920
He said he was at an exorcism
274
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,760
and a foot stool came flying
through the air and hit him in the head.
275
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,800
It's cost me a lot.
It's cost me two broken legs.
276
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,000
Almost broken kneecaps.
277
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,320
It endangered my life several times.
278
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,760
But I wasn't supposed to die.
279
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,360
Not yet.
280
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,600
It cost me a lot of hate.
281
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:51,760
A lot of my friends turned away.
282
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,200
They wouldn't walk with me
no more, as the saying goes.
283
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,960
You'll give but you'll never
get back again.
284
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,600
Some bit of you dies
with every exorcism.
285
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,760
With everything she does,
some bit of her is consumed
286
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,240
and goes away,
I don't know where it goes.
287
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,160
God stores it up for you
and you are finally reunited
288
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,880
but you lose that value
that you use up.
289
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,360
You're used up.
290
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:16,760
It's all over.
291
00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,720
You pay a price for anything decent
you do in this life.
292
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,200
And you don't get it back.
You're ennobled by it.
293
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,880
Strengthened by it. Made more
human by it. More noble.
294
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:28,560
But you don't get it back.
295
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,800
After the Second Vatican Council,
a lot of people believed
296
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,400
that the baby was thrown out
with the bathwater.
297
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:42,880
From... the integral centre of
the faith was concerned.
298
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:45,080
Malachi was one of them.
299
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,600
He saw a lot of what he called
"the nonsense" going on.
300
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,120
And it also led to a general decline,
301
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,760
basically, in people's beliefs
in central things.
302
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,120
Including the existence of evil
and existence of the Devil.
303
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,000
Because in the wake
of all the changes in the 1960s,
304
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,720
people wanted to focus
on flowery love, forgiveness,
305
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,040
puppies in the sunshine,
and all that stuff.
306
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,280
We find out the majority of bishops in
this country didn't believe in the Devil,
307
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:14,880
didn't believe in exorcism.
308
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,400
Had dropped that idea.
So we said we'd have an underground.
309
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,920
We set up an underground of exorcists
throughout the country.
310
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:27,440
And we... That's how I got into it.
311
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,600
I've stopped sending them
to certain bishops now.
312
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,640
They send them off to see a shrink,
go to a home, rest up, get drugs.
313
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,520
And it only makes them worse.
314
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,920
Makes it worse. It's a terrible plight.
315
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,840
God and Satan cannot coexist.
316
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,880
I mean you cannot - you cannot -
317
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:55,720
worship both of them.
318
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,480
You have to choose, Malachi often said
319
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,840
that Satan and Christ
divide the world between them.
320
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,280
And the Church needs to make it very clear
321
00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:09,240
who she is and what she stands for.
322
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,240
"When the Church asks publicly
and authoritatively
323
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,040
in the name of Jesus Christ
324
00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:22,400
that a person or an object be protected
against the power of the evil one,
325
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,760
and withdrawn from his dominion,
it is called exorcism.
326
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,240
Exorcism is directed
at the expulsion of demons
327
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,840
or to the liberation
from demonic possession
328
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:34,880
through the spiritual authority
329
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,800
"with which Jesus entrusted his church."
330
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,960
In the Catholic ceremony of exorcism,
331
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,520
we perform an exorcism,
not a type of exorcism or a blessing.
332
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,240
It is an exorcism.
There are two types of exorcism
333
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:49,840
in the Catholic Church.
334
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,160
The type that we perform
at every baptism
335
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,960
and then the type
we don't talk about very often.
336
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,600
We were taught as children
that God existed
337
00:20:58,680 --> 00:20:59,760
and that the Devil existed,
338
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,760
and that God was more powerful
than the Devil.
339
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:09,800
I know that he can't be quite as candid
as he was with us
340
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,160
cos there's tapes and there's video.
341
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,840
But he is going to be very open.
342
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,640
I was going to classes
with Ed and Lorraine Warren.
343
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,720
Lorraine said, "Next week, Malachi Martin
is coming to speak with us."
344
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,840
I had no idea who he was.
She said he was an exorcist.
345
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,040
I thought, that's the coolest thing ever.
I can't wait.
346
00:21:29,120 --> 00:21:33,000
I specifically chose to sit
in the back of the room
347
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,760
because I didn't want
to hog the spotlight in the front.
348
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,440
He spoke for an hour and a half or so.
349
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,440
At the end, a few of us got in line
to get our books autographed or say hi.
350
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,280
He immediately kept staring at me
down the line.
351
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,960
I thought, oh, boy.
352
00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,760
When he finally got to me,
he pointed to me
353
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:56,600
and goes, "Were you sitting
in that back corner?"
354
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,640
I said yes. He goes, "You were
distracting me the whole time."
355
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,960
I said, what?
356
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:04,840
He says, "You have a glow about you.
357
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,240
You are throwing off lights
like I have never seen before."
358
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,520
He said, "You are my favourite
person in this room right now."
359
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,920
He goes, "It's an honour to meet you."
An honour to meet me?
360
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,160
He made me feel so special that day
361
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,160
that I still remember what he said.
362
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,000
I think about it all the time.
363
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,640
They lionised him.
364
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,600
They brought him to the various
churches around the USA
365
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,720
and paid him nice lecture fees.
366
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,600
They got him book contracts
to write these funny books.
367
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,720
They weren't funny.
They were just weird.
368
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,160
Books that told these people
what they wanted to hear.
369
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,920
He parlayed this into profit.
370
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,040
My name is Ralph Sarchie.
371
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:55,440
I am a retired New York City
police sergeant.
372
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:56,920
I am also a demonologist.
373
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,720
Father Malachi Martin was my mentor
374
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,720
when I first started out
in what I call work.
375
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:05,640
I am a religious demonologist,
376
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,520
meaning that I approach this field
from a religious point of view.
377
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,240
I have assisted at exorcisms.
378
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:16,600
I investigate cases of demonic activity
and demonic possession.
379
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:21,480
Usually, I am the first guy to go
in there to see if it's a genuine case.
380
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,720
If it is, then we set up an exorcism.
381
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,160
All through my career,
I saw a lot of crazy things,
382
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:35,840
but it wasn't what I saw as a cop
that led me into the field of demonology.
383
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:42,920
It was more of an interest that went
a lot further than just reading books.
384
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,520
I actually got involved in it
385
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,560
and I was involved
with all the right people
386
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,240
in order to get to the point
where I am at in the field.
387
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,520
I try not to get emotionally involved
with my cases.
388
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,800
I can make mistakes when that happens.
389
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,200
I get emotionally involved
with people to a certain degree.
390
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,360
Because, as Father Martin says,
391
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,000
in the studies that he did,
there is no common denominator
392
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,160
between all of these people who have had
genuine cases of possession
393
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,400
or genuine cases of infestation
in their homes.
394
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,320
There is no common denominator
between these people except for one thing.
395
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,120
They all suffer.
396
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,400
It's the suffering that's difficult
because...
397
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,440
you know, sometimes I get a case
and it takes me a few months to get there.
398
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,160
So, one of the cops at work
399
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,400
arrested this guy.
400
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,240
The guy was threatening him.
401
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,240
Is there more coffee there?
402
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,920
I look at this way.
403
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,080
God puts people in your path
to teach you
404
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,960
and to direct you in what he needs.
405
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,360
And to serve his will properly.
406
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,360
And Father Martin had that place.
407
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:12,560
Basically, it was selfishness on my part,
408
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,920
the way I became his de facto driver
409
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,000
because he knew I had
a perfectly good working Jeep
410
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,920
and that we had a great time
whenever we were together,
411
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,920
talking, chatting, sharing
either a burger or a pizza. Whatever.
412
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,800
And I just made it known to him,
413
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,960
"Mal, if you ever need to go anywhere,
414
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,240
I'd like mine to be
the first number you dial.
415
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,400
I am going to pick up
and it's always going to be a yes."
416
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,200
I had spoken
with Father Martin years prior
417
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,080
about children.
418
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,600
And the things that he had told me
is that...
419
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,960
...God is going to allow more children
to become possessed genuinely
420
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,280
because of a chastisement
towards the parents.
421
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:03,600
He said that when you start
to see that happening,
422
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,000
that's when there is a turning point.
423
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,280
So I have been watching and I have
seen a rise in child possession.
424
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:13,600
Basically, within the last few years.
425
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,040
We also have
this new phenomenon
426
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:21,200
called the demonic possession of children.
427
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,600
- Demonic possession of children?
- Three, four, five, six.
428
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,280
- Good heavens.
- Very frightening. Very frightening.
429
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,360
That morning, when I got a phone call
from Father Malachi,
430
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,000
I actually thought
that he was calling to confirm
431
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,960
our birthday lunch that was going
to happen in a couple of weeks.
432
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,240
Instead, he asked me would I be willing
433
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,160
to drive him up Dr Coomaraswamy's
to Connecticut.
434
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,200
I already knew the way,
having been up there several times.
435
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,960
So I said, sure, I'd been happy to.
436
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,160
While we were on the way up there,
I said,
437
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,520
"What's the main reason
for us coming up here today?"
438
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,360
He said, "You are going
to drop me off because..."
439
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,960
Two hours after you drop me off,
there will be a family arriving
440
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,360
and they have with them
their small daughter,
441
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,800
and she is apparently
very severely afflicted
442
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,120
"with something they believe
to be demonic."
443
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,280
I said, "It's a good thing I am dropping
you off two hours ahead of time.
444
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:17,520
Because I don't want to be
anywhere near it."
445
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,280
For me go back up there
446
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:45,160
is basically to bring
a degree of calm to my soul.
447
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,560
If anything else.
448
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,480
Because I didn't know what
the subsequent events were going to be
449
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,080
after we went up to Connecticut.
450
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,000
He probably had a good idea
451
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,120
but he didn't tell me the whole
length and breadth of it.
452
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,160
There's very little truth
known about the Devil.
453
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,720
We do know from the Church
and from scripture
454
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,560
that Satan was one of the brightest
and most intelligent of the archangels.
455
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,600
Now, he did, though, rebel.
456
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,360
And apparently, there was a battle
between the good angels,
457
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,640
led by Michael, the archangel,
against Lucifer,
458
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,120
the light-bearer, the son of the dawn.
459
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,920
So, he was defeated and condemned
to what we call hell.
460
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,560
As far as we know,
God does love purity.
461
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,880
He does love compassion.
462
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,760
He loves beauty. Look at the beautiful
things he has created in nature.
463
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,960
But God, in all those things,
he has one great preference.
464
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,120
Repentance.
465
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,200
He loves to exercise mercy.
466
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,800
How could he do that
unless people who are tempted
467
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,600
and he had to forgive them?
He didn't want a perfect world.
468
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,680
He wanted to have a world
in which he could exercise mercy.
469
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,400
So he gave Satan the power
470
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,120
of tempting man.
471
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,760
I'm told that there's a Devil.
472
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,400
The Bible said so.
Jesus even said so.
473
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,320
The Pope often refers to the Devil
as a real person.
474
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,080
For all my love of Pope Francis,
I do not.
475
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,960
I am not prepared to say
476
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,800
that he's wrong and I am right.
477
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,680
I will find out. I look forward to my days
478
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,880
very soon when I will embarked
on a new adventure,
479
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,960
finding out the answers
to all these questions that I've had
480
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,640
all my life
and didn't know the answers to.
481
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,440
If you deny the Devil,
482
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,320
if you deny the existence of Lucifer,
483
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,760
if you deny the existence of sin, of hell,
484
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,720
eternal punishment,
485
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,360
you automatically deny Christ's salvation.
486
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,440
In fact, you can't deny
the existence of Lucifer
487
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,800
without being led inevitably to deny
the divinity and function of Christ,
488
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,240
our saviour. What's the purpose
in Christ coming?
489
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,560
To make a nice land,
to give us happy lives?
490
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,760
No, no! He came to save us from sin.
S-I-N.
491
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,600
The Church exists to answer real needs.
492
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,800
If those needs are not answered,
people simply walk away
493
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:15,680
and find the answers
they are looking for.
494
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,960
I can imagine a situation
495
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,560
in the atmosphere of
the 1970s in New York,
496
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,640
where those needs were being expressed,
497
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,640
people were being turned away by priests,
498
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,520
being told that we'd moved on
from those old superstitions.
499
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,720
And yet people hadn't moved on
from that sense of affliction.
500
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,040
If those people, or even one of them
presented themselves
501
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,280
to Malachi Martin, I have no doubt
that he would respond,
502
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:40,720
pastorally, as a priest.
503
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,680
When a human being is possessed,
504
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,800
what is the purpose
of the possession of an individual?
505
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,800
The destruction
of that individual's soul
506
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,120
to such a point that it must
end up in hell.
507
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,680
I think everyone has
their own personal beliefs about God
508
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,880
and the Devil and spirituality.
509
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,040
But in terms of trying
to convince anyone,
510
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,120
I don't think we'd ever be
successful in convincing anyone.
511
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,280
Because there is still
no real hardcore evidence.
512
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,520
We can't point to,
there's the Devil right there.
513
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,480
We have no picture of him.
514
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,520
I think people are going
to be sceptical
515
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,400
until they see that picture.
516
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,080
That's OK. Scepticism is a healthy thing.
517
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,440
I would encourage that.
Don't accept anything at face value.
518
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,240
Question, question, question.
519
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,120
By turns he would be talkative,
520
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,720
and by other turns
he would be introspective
521
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,000
and get kind of quiet.
522
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,080
And as we got closer,
between him and I,
523
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:04,480
there was an unspoken tension.
524
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,560
We could feel that we were
approaching something.
525
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:13,800
You know, he had heard
my confession, my full confession,
526
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:15,400
about half an hour before,
527
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,480
so there was nothing
weighing on my conscience.
528
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,440
But still, between the both of us,
529
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:23,280
there was really a sense of foreboding.
530
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,880
And I could not explain why.
531
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:47,920
My name is Matt Baglio.
532
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,760
The Making Of A Modern Exorcist.
533
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,400
Rome is really the capital
of exorcism in many ways.
534
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,840
I heard about this exorcism course,
535
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:02,560
which is really what brought me
into the topic of exorcism.
536
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,840
Before beginning the book,
I didn't know anything about exorcism.
537
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,080
I was very surprised
by a lot of the things I learned.
538
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:15,240
Here, in Italy, there is probably
20 people undergoing an exorcism
539
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:16,680
in Rome right now.
540
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,800
This exorcism course that we have
here in Rome,
541
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,360
in our university,
was invented by a layman.
542
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,680
This gave me also the opportunity
543
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,640
to work with a famous, at least in Italy,
544
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,760
very famous exorcist
called Father Gabriele Amorth.
545
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,920
We try to give a general outlook
of exorcism.
546
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,840
So we speak on the rite...
547
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:46,800
and it's a liturgic part.
548
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,480
But we also speak on the medical aspects
549
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,320
to try to help the priest to understand
550
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,080
the difference between schizophrenia
and true possession.
551
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:59,880
Between a person that is
on the drugs or on depression
552
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:01,920
and true possession.
553
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,280
Today, the hierarchy of the Church -
554
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,840
some support this course
and some don't -
555
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,160
I think, want a more cautious approach.
556
00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:16,520
They want to embrace
modern medicine and modern science
557
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,920
but at the same time,
not discount their own past
558
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:26,520
and their own belief
that exorcism is necessary
559
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,600
in certain rare instances.
560
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:32,080
One of the topics of this course
561
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,080
was to try and reintroduce priests
to the traditional teachings
562
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,280
of the Catholic Church
on a topic like the Devil.
563
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,600
There's many Catholic priests
who don't believe in exorcism.
564
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,240
I found that surprising.
565
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,480
They don't believe in the Devil
as a personified entity.
566
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,240
They were thinking of things
like Hollywood films and such.
567
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,440
It's very easy to laugh at that
568
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,680
and say, well,
I don't believe in that either.
569
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,920
They were trying to remind priests that...
570
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,240
this is something the Church
believes in and goes back to the Bible.
571
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,360
We see that Christ,
he was the first exorcist.
572
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,320
He had many encounters with
persons possessed by the Devil.
573
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,680
We can read this in scripture.
574
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,440
And he was able to cast out demons.
575
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,040
Then he gave this power to his disciples.
576
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,320
The disciples were also
able to cast out demons.
577
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,160
"No one may lawfully exorcise
the possessed
578
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:37,360
without the special and express
permission of the local ordinary.
579
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,400
Jesus performed exorcisms
580
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,880
and from him, the Church has received
the power and office of exorcising.
581
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:49,320
The solemn exorcism,
called a major exorcism,
582
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,240
can be performed only by a priest
583
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,320
and with the permission of the bishop.
584
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,680
The priest must proceed with prudence,
585
00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,280
strictly observing the rules
established by the Church.
586
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,920
Illness, especially psychological illness,
587
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,320
is a very different matter.
588
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,120
Treating this is the concern
of medical science.
589
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,600
Therefore, before an exorcism
is performed,
590
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,000
it is important to ascertain
that one is dealing with the presence
591
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,480
of the Evil One
and not with an illness.
592
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,600
Anneliese Michel died of starvation at 23.
593
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,440
A religious student
who spoke in strange voices,
594
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,480
doctors said she had epilepsy.
595
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,240
But she thought it was the Devil.
596
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,840
And so did a panel of priests
who recorded the voices.
597
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,440
The priests who followed
this 17th-century ritual believed
598
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,480
that it worked, that Anneliese
was spiritually healed
599
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:53,800
when she died.
600
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,240
But a Bavarian prosecutor
says this bishop,
601
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,800
who authorised the exorcism,
602
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,600
the priests who performed it,
and the parents who allowed it,
603
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,840
could face criminal-neglect charges
604
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,680
for failing to get medical help
for the starving woman.
605
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,640
With science,
you start with an open tablet.
606
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:16,280
An open slate.
607
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,360
And everything is included,
and you just go along,
608
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,920
and exclude different variables
as you can.
609
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,640
Each one was very different.
610
00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:26,360
Each one was very specific
and individualised.
611
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,160
So, I would try to rule out
mental illness.
612
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:32,360
Just rule out different factors.
613
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,320
Cognitive functioning.
614
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,400
Any psychotropic medications.
615
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,640
Ill side effects they may be experiencing,
if at all.
616
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:41,360
I am not afraid on the sceptics
617
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,840
because I am also a sceptic
on myself.
618
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,280
I don't believe that just any person
that arrives,
619
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,440
"I'm possessed," I am very sceptical.
620
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:56,240
A normal priest should be,
in a true sense, very sceptical.
621
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,160
To really grasp what it is.
622
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,360
And I can tell you that in my experiences,
623
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,000
as an exorcist,
624
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:09,120
more than 90% of the persons
that arrive to me as an exorcist
625
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,440
telling me that they have
problems with the Devil,
626
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,480
they have no problems
with the Devil at all.
627
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,960
People say they are possessed
all the time.
628
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,560
It doesn't make it true.
629
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,640
You have to rule it out.
630
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:22,080
Or rule it in.
631
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,320
Then was brought unto him one
possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb:
632
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,080
And he healed him, insomuch that the blind
and dumb both spake and saw.
633
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:39,200
And all the people were amazed and said,
"Is this not the son of David?"
634
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,040
But when the Pharisees heard, they said,
635
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,400
"This fellow doth not cast out devils,
but by Beelzebub the prince of devils."
636
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,120
And Jesus knew their thoughts
and said unto them,
637
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,600
"Every kingdom divided against itself
is brought to dissolution."
638
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:59,160
And every city or house
divided against itself shall not stand.
639
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:04,720
And if Satan casts out Satan,
he is divided against himself.
640
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,320
How shall then his kingdom stand?
641
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,160
And if I, by Beelzebub, cast out devils,
642
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:12,440
by whom do your children cast them?
643
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,920
"Therefore, they shall be your judges."
644
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,680
We now know
that there are people who programmed
645
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,920
children at the age of two,
646
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,600
reinforced it at seven,
confirmed it at 14 and 21.
647
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:32,040
Programmed... towards Lucifer.
648
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:34,040
They become Luciferians.
649
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,720
They're turned out
by the thousands every year.
650
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,080
We know who does it, who'll do it,
we know when they do it,
651
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,160
but we can't do anything about it.
It's a free country.
652
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:43,240
And...
653
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,840
It comes in various way.
654
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,720
The television has a lot to do with it.
655
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,720
Music has a lot to do with it.
656
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:58,360
We have made a statistical survey
of the possessed people we've known
657
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,400
and there are a lot of them.
658
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:05,520
There's no ethnic, there's no religious,
659
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,360
there's no gender,
660
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,440
there's no intellectual,
there's no economic...
661
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:17,320
There's no rule.
It's of some peculiar alchemy inside.
662
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,040
Because it creeps up to you slowly.
663
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:21,760
Satan doesn't appear with a scroll
and says,
664
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,880
"You can have all these things
if you sell your soul to me."
665
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,440
Faustian, Mephistopheles,
it's not like that.
666
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,400
It's the simple things slowly but surely.
667
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,480
And the possession then becomes
so that at a certain moment...
668
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,720
...you are under the command of something
669
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,640
that takes possession
of your will bit by bit.
670
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:44,840
It's a slow process until one day,
671
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,320
you can't say no and you are possessed.
672
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,360
You are no longer free to choose.
673
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,160
How do you know
a perfectly possessed person?
674
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,280
It's a leading question.
675
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,480
It's a very easy question
to answer in one sense.
676
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,520
That is the test.
677
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:07,960
By tests.
678
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,800
You'll know some, OK?
679
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:11,680
You might get involved with them.
680
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:13,480
You might even go to bed with her.
681
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:17,640
You work in the office with him,
you know him socially,
682
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:21,200
and you know him, you think,
until one day,
683
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,240
something happens and...
684
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,440
...you suddenly see a person
you never knew.
685
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,800
It's momentary.
686
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:34,720
The window on the camera opens
into reality.
687
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,760
You'll see it and then it's closed again.
That's the way you know it.
688
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,560
Otherwise, they can be good fathers,
they can be good statesmen.
689
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,280
They can be good bankers.
They can have sexual probity.
690
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,760
Everything. But they're possessed.
691
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,080
Completely given over to Satan.
692
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,040
Malachi told me many times.
693
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,080
He said that he thought, as a society,
694
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,960
the West and the world were heading
towards some kind of tipping point.
695
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,560
He fully expected that possibly
during his lifetime,
696
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,720
or after, what he used to refer to as,
"after I'm playing the harp,"
697
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,280
that there was going to come
some kind of event
698
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,280
that would define the end of
what he called the Catholic era
699
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,160
as we know it.
700
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,040
And because of that, he said
various events would be happening.
701
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,680
And possessions, things like possessions,
would naturally increase as well.
702
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,680
I am sure you've all read that passage
in the Book of Deuteronomy
703
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,080
where God says, "This day,
there are two courses open to you.
704
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:35,680
And I am telling you which one to follow."
705
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,880
On the one hand,
you can choose life and goodness.
706
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:43,160
On the other hand,
you can choose death and evil.
707
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,040
I truly believe that what I am seeing now
708
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,360
with all the things that I've heard,
all the things that I've read about,
709
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,480
this is just the lull before the storm.
710
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,680
Because I see us
being taken in a direction
711
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,800
that Father Martin basically described.
712
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,600
I don't like it one bit what's going on.
713
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:13,080
Over all and everywhere, throughout
our community of nations today,
714
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,000
numbering roughly about five billion,
715
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:20,200
and chiefly by legalised abortion
but also by contraception,
716
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,160
by euthanasia,
by condoned infanticide,
717
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:25,520
by deliberately fomenting civil wars,
718
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,640
by endemic hunger,
719
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:29,280
by the floods of refugees,
720
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,360
never before in the history of man
721
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,240
has the lifeblood of so many
been shed so violently,
722
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,800
so mercilessly wasted as in our day.
723
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,120
We specialise in the death of masses
724
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,000
as a community of nations today,
725
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,000
and we belong to that community
whether we like it or not.
726
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:50,320
So anti-life, surely, that's us.
We are anti-life.
727
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,040
Bloodstained guilt, surely.
728
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:58,000
Every 24 hours, we widen
that dark red pool of human blood.
729
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,480
We do. We do.
730
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,200
There's nothing underground
with this. You gotta see it.
731
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,000
If you don't have faith
and you don't have spirituality,
732
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,080
you're not gonna see it.
733
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,880
You're gonna miss
all the miracles of the supernatural.
734
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,360
And you are going to miss all the reverse
miracles of the preternatural.
735
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,800
And open your eyes.
736
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,840
Find God and you'll see.
737
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,760
Lucifer has the most amazing PR.
He doesn't exist.
738
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,400
...World War Two,
739
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,440
which we were fighting,
was never to be known.
740
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,040
He has made it so he doesn't exist.
741
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,440
The film-business headline could read
"The Devil knocks out the mafia."
742
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,280
For in 22 US and Canadian cities,
the old box-office champ
743
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,600
The Godfather is being flattened
by that movie about diabolical possession,
744
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:06,880
The Exorcist.
745
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,480
There was a very funny picture
called The Exorcist,
746
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,040
based on a book by William Blatty,
747
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,640
which was totally erroneous
as regards exorcism.
748
00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:21,000
It's a phony exorcism. It makes out
exorcism to be a combination
749
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,160
of Frankenstein and Dracula
750
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:26,440
with a lot of green goo, and windows
breaking and bodies flying.
751
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:30,320
It's much more terrible
and lethal than that.
752
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:35,120
Everything you see in The Exorcist
can happen.
753
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:39,680
But it could happen in an exorcist
over a lifetime...
754
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,240
It would be almost unheard-of
that it would appear
755
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:49,280
in a single individual in one single case.
756
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:53,480
The movies tend to condense
a lot of phenomena.
757
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:58,800
I know one exorcist who told me
he has once only seen levitation
758
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,720
in 20 years as an exorcist.
759
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,600
Right? But he has seen it.
760
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:07,360
He saw a child floating around the floor.
761
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,000
When we were publishing
Hostage To The Devil,
762
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,800
because Tony was such a good friend
of Peter Blatty,
763
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,000
we had some difficulty there.
764
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,160
They required Malachi
to get a letter from the Pope
765
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:26,360
saying that he was
what he said he was,
766
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,160
and exorcism was what it said it was.
767
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:31,680
And Malachi got a letter from Paul VI
768
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,840
and Peter Blatty,
when he heard about this,
769
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:37,280
just hit the ceiling.
770
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,800
He just... Exorcism was his.
771
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,160
And not only did he not write
a blurb for the book,
772
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:48,680
he wrote a review of the book
in the Los Angeles Times,
773
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:50,400
the opening line of which was,
774
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,920
"I hate this book."
775
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,840
When I wrote that book in 1975,
I wrote it for one reason only.
776
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,400
I wrote it because I found
my contemporaries in America and Canada
777
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:05,920
and Australia and Ireland
had forgotten what it was all about.
778
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,400
They didn't know it existed any more.
So I decided, as I was in that field,
779
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:15,120
that I would get and publish
the transcripts of five to ten exorcisms
780
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,240
and publish them as such
with a preface.
781
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,840
So I read Malachi Martin's book early on.
782
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,080
It definitely made an impression on me.
783
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:29,440
It's a very dramatic portrayal
of exorcism.
784
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:33,240
There's no doubt about it.
Here he was, a Catholic priest,
785
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,960
writing about a topic that many people
didn't know anything about,
786
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,720
and whatever you want to say about
Hostage To The Devil,
787
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,680
it's definitely a gripping read.
788
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,800
Even today.
789
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,400
My name is John Zaffis.
I am a paranormal investigator
790
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:51,080
and demonologist.
791
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,000
I have been involved with the field
for 42 years,
792
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:58,040
investigating a lot of different claims
of hauntings
793
00:47:58,120 --> 00:47:59,840
and the possibility of possession.
794
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:03,840
You know, years ago,
people used to look forward
795
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,560
to sitting down, reading a book,
796
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,560
and Hostage To The Devil
is probably one of the very first books
797
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,080
I was reading in regards
to some of this work.
798
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,760
I finally had the opportunity
to meet him
799
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:18,160
when he was speaking at a small event.
800
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:23,440
You know, he would have this look
you notice with a lot of spiritual people.
801
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,520
They are trying
to get a good sense of you.
802
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:27,680
You have to remember,
when you get involved with this field,
803
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:30,840
it's so important to be able
to be guarded
804
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,320
and careful with the people
you associate yourself with.
805
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,920
Because people will go after you
in a heartbeat to tear you down.
806
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:45,000
He was on a downward spiral
of more and more myths.
807
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,720
Hostage To The Devil
was an account of his...
808
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,600
...efforts to cast the Devil out
809
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,200
of various people who had been...
810
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,280
...possessed by the Devil.
811
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,840
And by all critical accounts,
812
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:08,840
his account didn't really stand up.
813
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,840
It did extremely well.
814
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:25,200
As time went on, it outsold The Exorcist.
815
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,640
It is still in print and still on sale.
816
00:49:27,720 --> 00:49:29,760
It has sold well over a million copies.
817
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:36,480
It appealed to his romantic nature
818
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,520
to have a romantic tale to tell.
819
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:45,440
He did very well. He sold a few books.
More than a few.
820
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,720
On one hand, you could say
he was always interested
821
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,480
in the most sensational story
that he could make up.
822
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,560
On the other hand,
there are those who think
823
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:02,240
he, Malachi Martin himself, was
somewhat possessed by the Devil.
824
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:09,320
And for him to cast himself in the role
of someone who could cast devils out
825
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,160
was a really neat trick!
826
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:14,160
- Have you ever been possessed?
- No. Thank God.
827
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:17,200
Some of the critics think maybe
you were when you wrote this book.
828
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,040
Well, may the Lord cure me
if I have been possessed.
829
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:22,880
I doubt that you have been.
830
00:50:25,240 --> 00:50:28,600
There is one thing that people
have to understand.
831
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:30,840
He broke ground. He went public.
832
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,880
He started doing appearances
and radio shows,
833
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,680
talking about this topic.
834
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,240
Demonology. Possession.
These things exist.
835
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:41,520
These things do happen.
836
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,720
He was crucified, basically,
behind the scenes,
837
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,920
you know, with the Church,
with people ridiculing him.
838
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,760
"Misrepresentation, falsehood,
and imagination
839
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,840
gone berserk all in the elaboration
and defence of a particular thesis."
840
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,080
Well, do you know what Ben Jonson said
841
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,800
when somebody said similar words
about a work of his?
842
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:01,760
He said, "When a gentleman
throws mud at me,
843
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:04,280
I know he has only got mud to throw."
844
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,680
You know, I don't respond to critics.
845
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,080
I don't really care
what critics have to say.
846
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,480
I believe that Father Martin
felt the same way.
847
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:15,360
We are more interested
in pleasing God
848
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,080
than pleasing our fellow man.
849
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:19,760
If you mention God,
they want to boo you.
850
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,520
If you mention Jesus,
they want to boo you.
851
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:24,680
They want to take it out
of the Pledge of Allegiance.
852
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,960
And the Ten Commandments, and all this.
853
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,040
But you know what, oddly enough,
854
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:30,960
"In God we trust" is on our money.
855
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,320
I don't see anybody throwing that away.
856
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,200
So, you know what,
if you don't believe in God,
857
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,120
and you want to remove all of...
858
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:42,800
then take every penny you have
and give it away!
859
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:43,920
Right now!
860
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:49,000
Don't wait. Give it away.
Because God's name is on the money.
861
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,200
You're a hypocrite at that time.
You know, walk the walk.
862
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,600
I never knew the man in person
863
00:51:56,680 --> 00:52:00,680
but I interviewed him for countless hours
on the radio.
864
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:04,360
I was very fortunate.
We became close friends.
865
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,160
I don't think you could listen to Malachi
866
00:52:07,240 --> 00:52:10,640
and not have a strong opinion,
one way or the other.
867
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:17,080
I have received a lot... not a lot,
a few angry, very angry, faxes.
868
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:18,520
I am sure you have.
869
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:22,320
How dare you, Art, expose
the audience to this...
870
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:27,160
old-fashioned, put-the-fear-
of-God-in-them hellfire-and-brimstone...
871
00:52:27,240 --> 00:52:29,400
People are very angry.
872
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,560
They are.
I know they are very angry.
873
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:36,960
But as I say, my reading of
the really, really, really angry ones
874
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,640
is that this disturbs their way of life.
875
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:44,600
This manifests a weakness.
876
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,720
This tells the truth about the way
that they live
877
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,160
and they don't like to be reminded of it.
878
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:56,800
He certainly brought it off very well.
879
00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,760
He made lots of money,
writing these books,
880
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:04,120
and making many appearances
on radio and television.
881
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,800
However, what did it all add up to?
882
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,800
Huge disappointment on the part of those
who finally saw through him.
883
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,480
Father Martin,
where can I write to you?
884
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,320
Following address. Take it.
885
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:26,200
217 East 66th Street, New York, New York.
886
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,560
He gave out his personal information
887
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,600
because he wanted to help people.
888
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:35,000
Do I think it was a good idea? No.
889
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,720
I warned him very carefully
890
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,880
that this might not be such a good idea.
891
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:45,760
I did that because of the thousands
of emails that I receive daily.
892
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,240
I knew what he was in for.
893
00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:57,160
The phone was ringing off the hook.
I looked at the answering machine,
894
00:53:57,240 --> 00:54:00,720
wondering why it wasn't answering.
And it said, 99.
895
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,520
I began to listen to the messages.
896
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:06,520
Of course, it was everybody
thought that they were possessed
897
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:09,200
and wanted to talk to him.
898
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,000
I called Malachi and asked
what had gone on.
899
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,040
He apologised and he said,
900
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,000
"I didn't want to give my number
so I gave yours.
901
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,200
I promise I'll never do it again."
902
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,920
I don't think I've ever met
a person with such strong charisma.
903
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,480
He drew you in. Very, very charming.
904
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:32,160
Highly intelligent.
905
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:34,400
Well-versed on so many topics
906
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,440
in the worldly sphere
as well as the spiritual sphere.
907
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,920
I did hear it from the other side
908
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,760
because I heard from a couple of people
909
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:46,000
who were absolutely devastated
910
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,320
because he sort of pulled the plug
on the relationship.
911
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:54,680
So, I know how much it hurt
the people when that happened.
912
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:58,960
Then, of course, I dreaded
that that might happen to me.
913
00:54:59,040 --> 00:55:01,520
I don't know what else I can say
but it's true, yes.
914
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,720
People obviously must've gotten
to be too possessive.
915
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:09,760
I can see why.
He was absolutely tantalising.
916
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,720
He was a charming guy
who told very witty stories.
917
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:19,200
Some of them even fairly obscene.
918
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,720
Because he was so unusual,
919
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,400
most of us around our dinner tables
would give him a pass.
920
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,720
We would say, "That's Malachi.
He's just being Malachi."
921
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:35,920
Unfortunately,
922
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,320
men being men,
Malachi Martin being a man,
923
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,680
Malachi Martin "fell in love",
924
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:46,200
at least he said he did, with my wife.
925
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,840
And so they began an affair.
926
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,200
I didn't want to think
that he was having an affair with my wife.
927
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:01,320
Therefore, for a good long time,
I was in denial.
928
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:06,800
So, he was just a liar
and a scoundrel and a cheat.
929
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,480
I'm glad that I will be judged
by our Lord Jesus
930
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:13,840
because I don't want to be judged by
anyone, I'd be condemned to hell by them.
931
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,440
Because I'm a filthy pig!
932
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:23,280
I know me better than anybody.
I know I don't deserve a darn thing.
933
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,840
I never saw an ego
and I was driving with him
934
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,400
and I said to him, "Father,
I want to attain your holiness,"
935
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,880
and he said to me,
936
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,240
"I am a wretched pig in the eyes of God."
937
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:43,920
I almost crashed the car.
938
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,640
I'm like, if you're a wretched pig,
then I'm finished.
939
00:56:46,720 --> 00:56:50,680
There's no way that I am attaining heaven.
940
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,960
I know this for a fact.
941
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,360
But he's a warrior,
he was a warrior for God,
942
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,560
and he still is a warrior for God.
943
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:12,520
Started out back in 1984.
944
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:14,360
Graduated from Catholic university
945
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,120
with a degree in Soviet studies,
interestingly enough.
946
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,640
And from there, I went to work
for the US Government
947
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,000
into the Central Intelligence Agency.
948
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,920
I stayed there till '97.
949
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,640
A lot of the work was highly classified,
950
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,320
so I am not really at liberty
to talk a whole lot about it.
951
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:41,200
It's very strange
but I haven't been up here in years.
952
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,080
I am feeling
some of those feelings right now.
953
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:49,760
So, it's very, very mixed feelings.
954
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,920
Feelings of fear.
955
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,600
I always felt there was a limited
amount to what I could do to protect him.
956
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:01,120
Because after a while,
I just came to realise
957
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:05,560
what he was up against was not
something a government badge
958
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,160
or a weapon was going to do
anything against.
959
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:14,240
You know, the government can
train you to do all kinds of things.
960
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:18,080
But for the things that are in the world
we can't see,
961
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,160
they don't train you for that.
962
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,400
He always referred to NYPD
involvement in exorcism
963
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:30,160
as being a very oblique thing.
964
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,080
Only because he couldn't
take the chance
965
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,160
that someone with loose lips
would run
966
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,600
to the New York Daily News
or the New York Post
967
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,640
and make the claim that
the New York City Police Dept
968
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:44,360
was helping to cast demons out of people.
969
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,040
So, his involvement
with the New York City Police Dept
970
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,880
would have been
probably more along the lines
971
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,880
of his interaction with people
like Ralph Sarchie.
972
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,000
But it was never an official policy
973
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,640
that the NYPD would ever call in
an exorcist.
974
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,360
All of these are my notes.
975
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:03,920
What this is all about.
976
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:08,200
Sometimes it's difficult
but most of the times you know
977
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,640
because of the way
the person behaves,
978
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:13,120
you know they are not mentally ill.
There is something else.
979
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:17,280
And a good exorcist
and a good investigator
980
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,480
will get to the bottom of that.
981
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:22,080
It might take time but it can be done.
982
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:32,120
So it must be a priest and he must
have authority from the bishop.
983
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:33,920
I know bishops.
We've gone to them and said,
984
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,720
"Look, John so-and-so
or Mary so-and-so needs exorcism,
985
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:39,360
Your Excellency,"
986
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:41,760
but a lot of it
is left up to the exorcist.
987
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,640
At a certain moment,
I must turn around and say to you,
988
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,280
the possessed person, "Who are you?"
989
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:52,440
An exorcist never answers
the question of a possessed person.
990
00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:55,320
You keep at it and find their names.
All of the names.
991
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:59,600
Ugly names. Sinister names.
Sardonic names.
992
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,520
Once you do that, you have them nailed.
993
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,360
Because then they obey that name.
They act on counsel of that name.
994
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:10,720
Then you proceed to find out who sent
them, how did they come here, when,
995
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,680
what's your speciality, what do you do?
996
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,080
It's like a dog
trying to get away from you.
997
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:20,320
It'll bite your hand. It'll bite you
mortally if you're not careful.
998
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:28,960
It's amazing how weak people are
when facing the supernatural.
999
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,240
Because once the supernatural
manifests itself,
1000
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:36,440
I've seen strong men collapse in tears.
1001
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:41,000
It's just too much. Too much.
It's very frightening.
1002
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:45,480
If they measure their intelligence
with his intelligence,
1003
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:47,560
they are going to be taken captive.
1004
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:55,240
Malachi Martin had
a very deep relationship with
1005
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:59,680
Dr Coomaraswamy on a personal
as well as a spiritual level.
1006
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:03,320
And he knew that Dr Coomaraswamy
1007
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,120
would never deceive him
about anything so...
1008
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:09,840
when Rama Coomaraswamy
called him up
1009
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,600
and asked Malachi
to come up and meet this young girl...
1010
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:17,320
...Malachi didn't hesitate.
1011
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:22,680
Especially since there was a child
at stake here.
1012
01:01:22,760 --> 01:01:24,840
Because a child that young
1013
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:28,120
cannot make a choice for evil
with full consent of the will.
1014
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:29,480
You can't do it.
1015
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:31,240
Picture a little kid like that.
1016
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,080
She can't make a choice like that.
1017
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,160
That, by the way,
that's the other reason why
1018
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:40,880
a child like that could never
become perfectly possessed.
1019
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:43,760
In order to be perfectly possessed,
as Malachi would've put it,
1020
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,280
you have to give
your full consent of the will.
1021
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,880
He was not adventure-seeking.
He knew the dangers.
1022
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:57,280
He knew the perils but he was not
in any shape to do that exorcism.
1023
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:01,000
Physically and spiritually,
perhaps he did not have
1024
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:02,680
adequate protection, either.
1025
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:04,720
But he put himself on the line
1026
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:06,920
and in the line of danger
1027
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:10,760
because there was a little girl
and the family didn't have
1028
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:12,920
or didn't feel they had other recourse.
1029
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,400
The first feeling I had was dread.
1030
01:02:21,480 --> 01:02:23,360
And it was a building dread.
1031
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:24,840
And I can't explain why.
1032
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:29,200
It was like I mentioned. I knew that
as the Catholic Church would put it,
1033
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:30,960
I was in a state of grace.
1034
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,160
I had nothing to really worry about.
1035
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,800
But still, I think we have all been
in those situations where...
1036
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:44,000
...you feel a gnawing sense of unease.
1037
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:45,960
And it just kept building.
1038
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:49,480
It just kept building and building.
1039
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:52,280
It's power over the will.
1040
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,920
You don't wake up in the morning
and say, gee whiz, I've been possessed.
1041
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,360
It's always a slow process
to which you consent.
1042
01:02:59,960 --> 01:03:04,120
If you open your heart to Satan,
he'll accept the invitation.
1043
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:08,240
It's not... He won't refuse.
1044
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:12,560
If someone is going to allow him in,
he'll take it.
1045
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:14,880
He'll take the opportunity.
1046
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:22,440
I asked your disciples
to cast him out, and they were not able.
1047
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:28,240
And he asked them, O, faithless
generation, how long am I to be with you?
1048
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:30,560
How long am I to bear with you?
1049
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:32,400
Bring him to me.
1050
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,720
And they brought the boy to him,
and when the spirit saw him,
1051
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,520
immediately, he convulsed the boy.
1052
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:42,560
And he fell on the ground
and rolled about, foaming at the mouth.
1053
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,960
And Jesus asked his father,
how long has he had this?
1054
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:50,080
And he said, since childhood.
1055
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:03,280
17 years.
1056
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:09,080
17 years and at this moment, it feels
like it fucking happened yesterday.
1057
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:15,640
And here we are.
1058
01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:32,680
Oddly enough, I got a tightness
in the chest as we approach the house.
1059
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,960
I also know that it's mixed
with a lot of sadness.
1060
01:04:37,360 --> 01:04:40,160
I mean, on a very real human level,
1061
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,680
we are talking about a man
who, you know,
1062
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:45,440
for the many years I knew him,
1063
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:48,200
11, 12,
1064
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:52,240
he was family to me. He was family.
1065
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,240
And now I am approaching the point
at which he came face to face
1066
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,240
with something that none of us
have ever encountered,
1067
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:02,000
that was ultimately responsible
for taking his life.
1068
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:07,760
So I feel a mixture of sadness,
1069
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:10,360
a mixture of apprehension...
1070
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:13,680
...fear...
1071
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,680
...and anger at what happened to him.
1072
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:20,920
It took my friend,
it took my goddamn best friend away.
1073
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:47,240
He was my best friend.
1074
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:54,840
Jesus.
1075
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,800
Funny thing is, I just thought
I'd be a whole lot calmer.
1076
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:14,600
My heart is racing
like a goddamn drum.
1077
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,080
We pulled in.
1078
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:24,440
Their van was right there.
Actually, it was a Ford Explorer.
1079
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:27,760
And we drove up
and I just said to Malachi...
1080
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,680
"Is that them?"
Because they were milling about.
1081
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:34,480
I said, "They are not
supposed to be here."
1082
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,840
And he didn't say anything
and at that point,
1083
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:42,360
I just knew by the look on his face...
that was them.
1084
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,520
Can you sit in that chair for a second?
1085
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:58,480
Focus.
1086
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:01,720
I was with a group
that investigated haunted houses.
1087
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:05,120
We almost all had specialties,
we had a doctor,
1088
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,320
a nurse, a psychologist.
1089
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:10,440
I was more of a videographer.
1090
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,440
You know, I would take pictures,
take video.
1091
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,800
Help restrain.
1092
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,200
A producer from ABC
came across our website.
1093
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:20,720
We had a featured article about
1094
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,000
a possible possession case
we were working on.
1095
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:27,320
And they asked if we were interested
in doing a primetime special
1096
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:29,200
and we said, of course we're interested.
1097
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:35,240
This is about 20-25 years ago.
There were no shows on TV.
1098
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:38,480
This was all before
the paranormal investigators.
1099
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:42,600
I think we were trailblazers
but even in doing the investigations
1100
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,280
and examinations and assessments
of the people,
1101
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:48,560
I didn't have a role model for that.
1102
01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:52,840
There was no textbook
that you can just open up and study.
1103
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:57,240
I just kind of learned
as I went along through experience
1104
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:00,040
with the different cases,
with the different families,
1105
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:01,960
and with the different people involved.
1106
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:04,880
There were certain people in the group
that felt
1107
01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,560
all the cases that came to us
were possessed.
1108
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:09,840
I personally did not feel that way.
1109
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:14,240
My personal opinion
and my professional opinion at that point,
1110
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:18,000
I ruled out
a significant number of those cases.
1111
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:21,960
If you're asking for a ratio,
I would say probably...
1112
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,960
close to two-thirds I would rule out.
1113
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:28,560
This is our first exorcism
we ever were involved with.
1114
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:31,120
We actually went to the house.
It wasn't in the church.
1115
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:32,560
We didn't know what was going to happen
1116
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:34,520
because the girl didn't believe
she was possessed.
1117
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:37,800
We weren't sure either. She said,
I probably won't have any reaction.
1118
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:46,560
But that morning, it was just
a very angry feeling in that room,
1119
01:08:46,640 --> 01:08:51,240
very cold, the temperature in the room
dropped many, many times.
1120
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:53,400
I would vary up and down, up and down.
1121
01:08:54,880 --> 01:08:58,800
As soon as the priest started doing
his litany of the saints,
1122
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:02,120
she started moving around in her chair
and screaming,
1123
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:05,280
breaking out of her restraints
and she just stood up like this,
1124
01:09:05,360 --> 01:09:08,360
and broke out of every restraint
we had and went towards the priest.
1125
01:09:08,440 --> 01:09:11,120
She was trying to gouge her own eyes out.
1126
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,960
During that point, I tried to restrain
her own hands from doing that.
1127
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:17,240
She bit me.
1128
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:45,080
We both got out of the car
at the same time.
1129
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:46,360
I went around to him and he said,
1130
01:09:46,440 --> 01:09:51,840
"Let's do some introductions
and then you can leave."
1131
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:02,520
We got out and we walked over
towards where they were.
1132
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:04,720
The introductions were made.
1133
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:09,240
Then this little child, she just walks
up to Malachi over here.
1134
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:12,080
She just looks up at him
and she says,
1135
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:15,960
"You're Father Malachi
and you think you're going to help me."
1136
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,720
At that point, I just knew
that I was up against something
1137
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:20,880
that nothing had ever trained me for.
1138
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:26,400
Malachi kept on acting like
she was a perfectly normal little girl.
1139
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:30,800
I knew something was off.
1140
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,360
Did I know she was possessed?
No. But I knew something was off.
1141
01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:38,320
We are talking
about a four-year-old child.
1142
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:40,840
She was innocence personified.
1143
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:43,640
There was no reason why this kid
should've been afflicted in this way.
1144
01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:48,640
Malachi, he just kind of gave me
"the look",
1145
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:51,920
as in, this is my turf now, Bob,
1146
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,000
you don't need to be here
and you shouldn't be here.
1147
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:57,400
It was not my place
to be in there at all.
1148
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:15,960
One of the realities
or the characteristics
1149
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,880
that you need to see
if a person is possessed
1150
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:21,280
is one of the signs,
you need four signs.
1151
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:24,520
An extraordinary strength.
1152
01:11:26,360 --> 01:11:28,960
The knowledge of ancient languages.
1153
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:32,280
Fear of sacred things.
1154
01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:37,520
And the knowledge of hidden
or very far-away things.
1155
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:44,640
I think that the three first
can be invented.
1156
01:11:44,720 --> 01:11:47,560
I can fake an extraordinary force.
1157
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:50,160
I can talk to you in Latin or Greek.
1158
01:11:50,240 --> 01:11:52,400
Because I remember it from school.
1159
01:11:52,480 --> 01:11:57,240
I can fake that I am afraid
of the crucifix.
1160
01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:59,320
I can fake it.
1161
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:03,920
But what I cannot invent
or cannot fake
1162
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:08,600
is to know things
that really happened in your life
1163
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:12,000
that is just absolutely impossible
for me to know.
1164
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,840
You always go to the commonsense.
1165
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:17,960
Maybe she heard us talking.
1166
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:20,560
She heard a conversation that we had.
1167
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:24,080
Or maybe her mother knew
something about us
1168
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:28,320
that she just inadvertently
blurted out to her.
1169
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:32,880
Maybe she read something about us
on the internet, on the website.
1170
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:36,680
You try to have those commonsense
approaches to things.
1171
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:40,480
But sometimes you just know
there's no way they could've known that.
1172
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,240
There are very personal things
about our families,
1173
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,560
personal events that have happened
that morning.
1174
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:48,920
There's no possible way.
1175
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:52,600
Something I didn't even talk about
with my colleagues.
1176
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:55,080
How would they know that?
1177
01:12:55,160 --> 01:12:57,200
I can't explain it.
1178
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:01,480
One of the things that convinced me
that there is something to this,
1179
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:04,080
in very rare cases,
there is something to this,
1180
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:09,280
beyond simple superstition
or active imagination,
1181
01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:12,560
was the fact that I was able
to interview people
1182
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:15,320
who were not Catholic priests,
who were sceptics,
1183
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:17,200
who were scientists,
1184
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,960
who themselves had these experiences.
1185
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:21,320
And they couldn't explain them.
1186
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:23,640
They were matching up
with what the exorcists
1187
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:25,800
were saying they were
seeing themselves.
1188
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:31,760
The real horror, the real pain,
1189
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:32,880
what hurts in possession
1190
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:36,720
is the presence of the Evil One.
1191
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:40,600
And when we start an exorcism,
1192
01:13:40,680 --> 01:13:44,800
within the first 20 minutes,
we know whether it's genuine or not.
1193
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:49,160
Suddenly, it becomes evident.
How evident...
1194
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:54,240
Like an invisible animal clawing at you
with claws you can't esacpe.
1195
01:13:56,040 --> 01:14:00,000
There are physical manifestations
like change in temperature,
1196
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:04,120
smells, odours,
objects flying around,
1197
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:07,720
and then there's violence on the part
of the possessed person at times.
1198
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:09,160
They have to be held down.
1199
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:11,480
That's why you have assistants
who are not afraid.
1200
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:18,000
Because a lot of people the moment
they enter their first exorcism,
1201
01:14:18,080 --> 01:14:23,200
it scares them,
it's the most unhealthy, insalubrious,
1202
01:14:23,280 --> 01:14:27,960
mucky, dirty, inhuman activity
you could participate in,
1203
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:30,400
but we must in order to save these people.
1204
01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:33,560
The exorcist and his assistants
and the possessed person
1205
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:37,560
are in the presence
of something that hates us
1206
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:41,000
in a way that you've never
felt hated before.
1207
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,280
When you get beyond the sensational,
like I did,
1208
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:54,840
when I was watching these exorcisms,
1209
01:14:54,920 --> 01:14:57,160
it's one of the things
that really stand out in your mind,
1210
01:14:57,240 --> 01:14:59,800
these people are suffering.
1211
01:14:59,880 --> 01:15:03,360
And you, from a human level,
1212
01:15:03,440 --> 01:15:05,360
you want to help them get better.
1213
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:12,800
We are tested often times.
1214
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:14,560
That morning was no different.
1215
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:18,480
That exorcism went on
for a number of hours, I believe.
1216
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:22,640
But afterwards, there was
such a change in the room.
1217
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:25,040
It was absolutely beautiful.
1218
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,200
Words cannot even describe the change.
1219
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:37,000
When they first approached us,
I think we were more excited to be on TV.
1220
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:41,680
And after it came out,
we saw the impact that it had
1221
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:44,640
and how many people were in need
around the country.
1222
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:46,800
They said they can't find
help in their area.
1223
01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,800
We are talking about real people
who are suffering.
1224
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:54,800
Real people who want healing.
1225
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:57,400
Those people deserve peace.
1226
01:15:57,480 --> 01:16:00,120
Those people implore for peace
1227
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:02,240
that only the Church can give
1228
01:16:02,320 --> 01:16:05,160
when they are in these grave situations.
1229
01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:18,440
I came back for him two hours later.
1230
01:16:19,520 --> 01:16:22,400
At the time, it was a beautiful summer
day. I came down the driveway
1231
01:16:22,480 --> 01:16:26,480
in my Jeep. I just remember
there was a Ford Explorer.
1232
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:28,600
It was a tan vehicle.
It was parked right about here,
1233
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:32,320
caddy-corner almost facing
that house in the background.
1234
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:36,320
And everyone was out,
starting to say their goodbyes.
1235
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,880
I saw them proceeding out
from the house in the back there.
1236
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:42,280
I pulled up right over here.
1237
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,720
I got out and I saw Malachi
talking to the parents first.
1238
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:48,640
Then the parents were getting
in the vehicle
1239
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:50,920
and they were helping
the little child into the vehicle
1240
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:54,800
into the back seat, and the mother
had rolled the window down,
1241
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:57,560
and Malachi, after he had
said goodbye to the parents,
1242
01:16:57,640 --> 01:17:00,120
he had walked over
to say goodbye to the child,
1243
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:01,800
and I remember when the window
went down,
1244
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:04,480
just as he got there to the window,
1245
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:06,240
as the glass came down,
1246
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:08,720
I remember her face
kind of framed in the window.
1247
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:14,120
She just blew him a kiss,
it was disgusting, lascivious,
1248
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,920
it was like something
was defiling innocence at that moment.
1249
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,120
The kind of way you imagine a whore
blowing a kiss to a john
1250
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:24,360
who had just paid her 100 bucks.
That's what it was.
1251
01:17:24,440 --> 01:17:26,960
Malachi was completely nonplussed.
1252
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:31,840
It is extremely rare
1253
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:35,880
for a four-year-old
to have a mental illness at that age.
1254
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:37,720
I don't know the particulars of this case
1255
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,280
but if she was sexually provocative
at the age of four,
1256
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:44,040
that could be a learned behaviour
through sexual abuse.
1257
01:17:44,120 --> 01:17:47,360
But again, at the age of four,
1258
01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:51,320
it's very rare for a child of that age
1259
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:53,480
for it to be explained by mental illness.
1260
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:56,480
Or again, substance abuse.
1261
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:59,400
Substance-induced psychosis.
1262
01:17:59,480 --> 01:18:01,640
Schizophrenia. Things of that nature.
1263
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:05,320
To the sceptics, I would say
that the people that I met that day,
1264
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:09,440
they seemed like in every way,
the all-American family.
1265
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:11,840
There was nothing to indicate
anything like that.
1266
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:15,880
Something went on
in the conversations inside the house
1267
01:18:15,960 --> 01:18:20,720
that convinced a senior exorcist
of the Roman Catholic Church
1268
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:23,360
and Dr Rama Coomaraswamy,
1269
01:18:23,440 --> 01:18:25,800
an actual medical psychiatrist,
1270
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:29,720
that something was afflicting this girl
that was not of this world
1271
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,240
and could not be explained
by modern medical science.
1272
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:40,840
We went up the driveway and I said,
1273
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:44,520
"Do you think it's an authentic case
of possession, Mal?"
1274
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:47,080
And he said, "I've got no doubt."
1275
01:18:47,160 --> 01:18:49,320
He said, "But this one
is going to be difficult."
1276
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:53,600
I remember... my phrase for that was,
hammer and tongs.
1277
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:56,520
I said, "You're talking hammer and tongs?"
He said yeah.
1278
01:18:56,600 --> 01:19:00,120
And then he just kind of nodded
and he was quiet for a while,
1279
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:01,880
as we drove off.
1280
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:17,160
People would be inclined to think
1281
01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:19,560
that the hostage is the person possessed.
1282
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:24,120
But actually, no, it's the priest
who does the exorcism.
1283
01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:31,200
Malachi had been the subject
of several heart operations.
1284
01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:33,920
He always tried to come across
as very robust.
1285
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:37,840
But you know these things, exorcisms,
1286
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:39,400
they have to take a toll on you.
1287
01:19:39,480 --> 01:19:44,360
It's just that once you realise
you are dealing with a reality here
1288
01:19:44,440 --> 01:19:46,760
then you realise there is a price
to be paid
1289
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,440
and every exorcism
took a little chunk out of his life.
1290
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:52,800
And so, for Malachi,
his own personal health
1291
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:54,640
was never a concern to him.
1292
01:19:54,720 --> 01:19:57,920
It was of paramount concern
to the people around him.
1293
01:20:01,240 --> 01:20:04,560
He was told by the doctor
to take it easier
1294
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:07,000
and to cut out a lot of what he was doing.
1295
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:10,640
But it's an element of the true priest
1296
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:14,840
needs to be another Christ,
that is what he is called to be.
1297
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:17,000
To lay your life on the line.
1298
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:26,200
The more he would help people,
the more he would become a target.
1299
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:28,440
It affects their personal lives,
1300
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:30,640
it affects everything about them.
1301
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:32,960
And it's a very isolating world.
1302
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:52,880
The phone rang that morning
1303
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:54,680
and it was Malachi's voice
on the other end,
1304
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:58,040
speaking in a very strained, weak voice.
1305
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:01,880
His exact words were,
"Bob, I've taken a bit of a tumble."
1306
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:04,120
And I said, "What do you mean?"
1307
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:07,240
He said, "I've hit my head.
I was reaching for a book,
1308
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:09,720
standing on a stool in my study,
1309
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:12,720
and I had the stool knocked out
from under me."
1310
01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:14,800
"What do you mean,
it was pushed out from under you?"
1311
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:17,760
He said,
"Old Scratch wasn't terribly happy
1312
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:19,400
with what we just did
up in Connecticut."
1313
01:21:19,480 --> 01:21:24,280
I know that some people said
that he claimed that someone pushed him.
1314
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:29,320
What is unclear about that, of course,
is whether it was an evil spirit
1315
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:31,200
or a human.
1316
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:36,280
Some said that he was
pushed off the ladder.
1317
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:44,560
Done in because he had
this terrible history behind him.
1318
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:46,680
They wanted to shut him up.
1319
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:48,840
I know it was horrific.
1320
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:52,960
He said he wanted me to know that...
1321
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:55,600
he hadn't fallen, it wasn't a fall.
1322
01:21:55,680 --> 01:22:01,520
This creature had grabbed him...
1323
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:06,560
...just above his ankle
and caused him to fall.
1324
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:11,800
When he went to the hospital,
he lapsed into a coma.
1325
01:22:13,480 --> 01:22:16,480
They were restricting
the access of people
1326
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:19,840
into his room, a semi-private room
in Lennox Hill Hospital.
1327
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:25,280
I am not ashamed to say
I was bawling like a little child.
1328
01:22:25,360 --> 01:22:27,760
Here was my best friend in a coma.
1329
01:22:29,680 --> 01:22:32,840
I knew he wasn't hearing me
with his ears.
1330
01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:34,720
Hopefully, he was hearing me
with his soul.
1331
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:40,600
I had a tremendous sense in that room
that a struggle was continuing.
1332
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:42,720
Even though he was comatose.
1333
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:47,520
That's why the prayers that we made
1334
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:51,760
and we sent to protect him
were so important.
1335
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:56,640
About a day and a half later,
1336
01:22:56,720 --> 01:23:00,800
I just got a call,
I believe, from his agent, Lila,
1337
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:02,920
that Malachi had passed away.
1338
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:08,680
I remember just hanging up the phone
and going into my office at home
1339
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:12,480
and just praying the rosary
immediately for his soul.
1340
01:23:15,640 --> 01:23:19,520
We have the intent
to want to receive God.
1341
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:22,080
It doesn't hold any weight with Jesus?
1342
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:28,440
When I heard that he had passed on
to his final reward,
1343
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:30,520
because that's what he got,
1344
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:32,920
you know, I was sad to see him go
1345
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:36,560
and it scared me a little bit
because I lost one of my mentors now.
1346
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:38,800
It's like, uh-oh, you know?
1347
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:42,960
What do I do now if I come upon
something that I don't know?
1348
01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:46,440
But I miss him
and I would like to talk to him
1349
01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:48,560
and I still do talk to him.
1350
01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:02,200
I think he knew what he was doing,
he knew the risks
1351
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:04,960
and yet he went for it.
1352
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,920
Personally, I feel it was a great victory
for the Adversary.
1353
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:14,520
I think that he was taken too soon
and prematurely.
1354
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:19,880
And the Adversary hit its mark in that.
1355
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:21,400
So, it was a great tragedy.
1356
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:35,800
Father Martin had told me
about this particular case.
1357
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:38,000
The girl was four years old at the time.
1358
01:24:38,080 --> 01:24:42,280
When she was eight, four years later,
I assisted at her exorcism.
1359
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:48,800
This girl needed
years and years of exorcism.
1360
01:24:48,880 --> 01:24:51,360
There was no doubt about that.
We weren't dealing with a demon.
1361
01:24:51,440 --> 01:24:54,840
We were dealing with the Devil here
and he was very, very powerful.
1362
01:25:07,480 --> 01:25:10,240
She spoke fluent Latin
during that exorcism.
1363
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:15,760
I can produce eight-year-old children
that can speak fluent Latin
1364
01:25:15,840 --> 01:25:19,720
but they're traditional,
they've been trained since first grade
1365
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:21,560
on how to speak Latin.
1366
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:24,200
I know this particular girl
didn't have that background.
1367
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:26,680
She was actually.
1368
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:29,600
- Who taught you that?
- No one.
1369
01:25:30,880 --> 01:25:32,320
- No one?
- No one.
1370
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:35,000
- Not your father or anybody?
- No.
1371
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:37,440
How do you know it, then?
1372
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:40,080
Mmm. I just know it.
1373
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:46,400
Speaking in a language that is not
known previously to that person
1374
01:25:46,480 --> 01:25:49,800
is a surefire sign of demonic possession.
1375
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:52,280
From what I seen during the exorcism,
1376
01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:56,800
we did get that proof right out
of the playbook of the Roman ritual.
1377
01:25:59,880 --> 01:26:04,000
This particular case was definitely
on a different level.
1378
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:07,440
I do hope that she did find
the relief that she sought.
1379
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:11,960
Most of all, I hope her soul belongs
to God at this moment,
1380
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:14,480
no matter what her physical condition is.
1381
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:17,400
I hope that her soul belongs to God.
1382
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:22,480
I adjure you, Devil.
1383
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:24,800
- You want me to say it?
- Yes.
1384
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:27,360
I adjure you, Devil.
1385
01:26:27,440 --> 01:26:29,440
- To be gone.
- To be gone.
1386
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:32,000
- And leave me alone.
- And leave me alone.
1387
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:35,320
- Now and for ever.
- Now and for ever.
1388
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:37,880
- I hate you.
- I hate you.
1389
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:41,360
- And you are a Devil.
- And you are a Devil.
1390
01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:43,080
Amen.
1391
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:58,320
If you contact the HQ of the Jesuits
in Rome, the Jesuit curia,
1392
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:01,040
which is a large building
in the shadow of the Vatican,
1393
01:27:01,120 --> 01:27:03,200
they will give you a number of facts,
1394
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:05,360
if they choose to give you
any information at all.
1395
01:27:05,440 --> 01:27:08,560
They'll tell you that Malachi Martin
was a Jesuit priest.
1396
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:11,920
They'll tell you that he was in Rome
between certain dates
1397
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:15,360
but they are not certain of the role
or the authority which he had.
1398
01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:19,240
They will tell you that he did, at a
stage, work on the Dead Sea Scrolls.
1399
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:24,240
According to the Jesuits,
when Malachi Martin left Rome in 1965,
1400
01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:27,000
he was no longer a priest.
1401
01:27:29,280 --> 01:27:30,880
Malachi Martin had no right
1402
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:33,320
legitimately to perform exorcisms
1403
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:37,560
unless by express permission
from the local bishop.
1404
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:49,720
It's hard for some characters
to get off the stage.
1405
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:51,880
If you know when to get off the stage,
1406
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:54,680
still leaving some questions
in the mind of the audience,
1407
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:56,680
you've done pretty well.
1408
01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:06,600
According to the Jesuits,
Father Martin was no longer a priest
1409
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:08,320
when he left them in '65,
1410
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:10,680
basically, once you're a priest,
you're always a priest.
1411
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:15,480
Father Martin never renounced his vows.
1412
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:18,080
As a matter of fact, he probably
strengthened them
1413
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:19,720
from the outside of the Church.
1414
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:21,920
Which is where God wanted him.
1415
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:23,720
They don't like it but that's the truth.
1416
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:37,080
I think we are all blessed
with intuition and instinct.
1417
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:42,120
So, when we walk into a room and there
is someone afflicted in that room,
1418
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:44,960
you know it, you feel it, you see it.
1419
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:47,360
Sometimes you know it
before you even see the person,
1420
01:28:47,440 --> 01:28:49,600
before you even go into the room.
1421
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:52,480
Sometimes you know it
when you are driving up to the house.
1422
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:54,800
It's just a gut feeling.
1423
01:28:54,880 --> 01:28:58,040
I believe that to be
all the source within us
1424
01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:01,880
responding to what source is not.
1425
01:29:04,240 --> 01:29:09,200
I've noticed in all the evidence
I have tried to present to the public
1426
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:12,000
they are either going to believe
or not going to believe.
1427
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:14,000
It's very hard to change
somebody's beliefs.
1428
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:17,320
But just getting the word out
is all you can do.
1429
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:20,960
If you can help somebody along the way,
that's great.
1430
01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:22,480
I've been doing this for 20 years.
1431
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:25,040
If I helped one person
who was genuinely possessed,
1432
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:26,640
it's all worth it.
1433
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:33,240
These are very,
very sophisticated spirits
1434
01:29:33,320 --> 01:29:37,720
who are there to harm us.
And they're real.
1435
01:29:44,040 --> 01:29:47,320
One thing I have noticed
is that since his death,
1436
01:29:47,400 --> 01:29:51,360
interest in his work and in him
has not really diminished.
1437
01:29:51,440 --> 01:29:56,120
He was absolutely confident
in everything he said.
1438
01:29:56,200 --> 01:30:00,160
He used the means at his disposal,
which were the media,
1439
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:01,760
to get the message across.
1440
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:03,600
So it was his confidence
in what he was saying
1441
01:30:03,680 --> 01:30:06,440
that really struck you.
1442
01:30:06,520 --> 01:30:09,920
And there is a certain element of mystery.
1443
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:15,520
He was a fascinating man.
1444
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:18,280
He also said a lot of things
to me in private...
1445
01:30:18,360 --> 01:30:21,320
We did talk a great deal.
1446
01:30:21,400 --> 01:30:26,680
He shared some of those which
I cannot share with you or anybody
1447
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:28,840
because I promised.
1448
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:34,520
What he did say,
if you want something chilling,
1449
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:38,320
he said, imagine the very worst
you can imagine
1450
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:43,240
and then I will tell you that it's going
to be much worse than that.
1451
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:48,760
I think that if one looks
at these tapes,
1452
01:30:48,840 --> 01:30:51,520
we may touch on
the evidence that we now have
1453
01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:54,240
that Satan is having his last stand.
1454
01:30:54,320 --> 01:30:56,600
This is his Waterloo
and he is going to kill a lot,
1455
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:59,160
destroy much, scorched-earth policy!
1456
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:03,040
Destroy as much as he can
before he shoved into the abyss again,
1457
01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:04,400
chained by Michael!
1458
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:12,720
I do believe that Malachi Martin
started to believe his own lies.
1459
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:16,760
He was so convincing.
Some people didn't exactly hate him.
1460
01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:21,360
They felt sorry for him
because he had gone off the rail.
1461
01:31:21,440 --> 01:31:24,840
I guess the charisma was truth.
1462
01:31:24,920 --> 01:31:29,840
Because that's really what he...
1463
01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:34,280
That was his message.
His message was the truth.
1464
01:31:34,360 --> 01:31:39,040
And everyone had to make that decision.
1465
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:40,880
Whom do you believe?
1466
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:43,280
This man tells the truth.
Whom do you believe?
1467
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:49,400
In many ways, his life was a war.
1468
01:31:49,480 --> 01:31:53,920
But it's a war story but it's a war
against what Christ said
1469
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:57,400
is against the powers
and the principalities not of this world.
1470
01:31:57,480 --> 01:32:01,440
And he dedicated himself 150% to that.
1471
01:32:02,440 --> 01:32:05,720
He was just the most fascinating
person I've ever met in my life.
1472
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:07,320
Hands down.
1473
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:09,000
That's it.
1474
01:32:11,360 --> 01:32:16,120
There is hope, more than hope.
We have surety.
1475
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:22,680
We are assured that everything is going to
be optimum and better than it was before.
1476
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:25,840
But we also have the assurance
that Christ had
1477
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:28,040
when he knew that he would
rise again on the third day
1478
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:31,120
and ascend gloriously into heaven
and reign for ever...
1479
01:32:31,200 --> 01:32:33,920
He knew and we know
that in between us,
1480
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:38,240
and that successful
outcome of our present...
1481
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:40,720
quandary and misery
is going to be extremely painful.
1482
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,480
We know that from history,
we know that from scripture.
1483
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:48,640
We know that the worst is yet
to come before it turns around.
1484
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:52,840
So we are commenting on a dire situation
into which we have been plunged.
1485
01:32:52,920 --> 01:32:56,440
Not by God, but by the mistakes
of men, the mistakes of popes,
1486
01:32:56,520 --> 01:32:58,960
the mistakes of bishops,
the mistakes of priests,
1487
01:32:59,040 --> 01:33:01,480
the mistakes of nuns
and the mistakes of lay people.
1488
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:04,080
Everybody has their share in it.
1489
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:08,560
But God's law is
that he punishes the whole race
1490
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:10,360
for the sins of the few.
1491
01:33:29,440 --> 01:33:32,560
There is one more thing about Lucifer
1492
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:34,760
which we should remember,
and it's this.
1493
01:33:36,200 --> 01:33:38,520
We have no protection against him.
1494
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:40,520
Of ourselves.
1495
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:42,400
No one can match him.
1496
01:33:42,480 --> 01:33:44,160
On this earth.
1497
01:33:44,240 --> 01:33:45,560
No one.
1498
01:33:53,320 --> 01:33:54,720
I am sorry
1499
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:57,840
for having offended thee.
1500
01:33:57,920 --> 01:34:01,200
And I detest my sins
1501
01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:04,200
above every other evil
1502
01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:08,560
because they displease thee, my God.
1503
01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:11,520
And I firmly resolve,
1504
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:14,200
by thy holy grace,
1505
01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:17,720
never more to offend thee,
1506
01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:21,200
but to amend my life. Amen.
1507
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:43,680
My friends, this is the blessed sacrament.
1508
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:47,800
I always carry it with me.
1509
01:34:47,880 --> 01:34:50,960
He has been with us all this time.
1510
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:52,360
Amen.
1511
01:34:52,440 --> 01:34:55,560
- Okay.
- Thank you!
1512
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:58,760
I didn't know that.
I didn't know he'd been with us.
1513
01:34:58,840 --> 01:35:01,880
Father Martin carries
the big guns.
127857
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.