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00:00:46,060 --> 00:00:48,980
Hey! Over here!
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00:01:05,670 --> 00:01:06,710
Please!
4
00:02:52,980 --> 00:02:55,610
911, what is the address
of your emergency?
5
00:02:55,650 --> 00:02:58,440
Waukesha County, I'm gonna transfer
over a caller on Big Bend.
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00:02:58,490 --> 00:03:01,530
That's a dead end
just south of Rivera.
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00:03:01,570 --> 00:03:04,370
Okay. He came upon a
12-year-old female.
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00:03:04,410 --> 00:03:05,910
She appears
to have been stabbed.
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00:03:05,950 --> 00:03:07,410
She appears to be what?
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00:03:07,450 --> 00:03:08,700
- Stabbed.
- Stabbed?
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00:03:08,750 --> 00:03:09,830
Correct.
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00:03:12,250 --> 00:03:16,790
On Saturday, May 31st, 2014,
at approximately 9:50 a.m.,
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00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,710
the Waukesha Police
Department was notified
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00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,300
by a concerned citizen
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00:03:20,340 --> 00:03:22,300
that a 12-year-old girl
was stabbed
16
00:03:22,340 --> 00:03:25,760
in the area of Big Bend Road
in the city of Waukesha.
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00:03:25,810 --> 00:03:28,930
The stabbing brought a huge
police presence to the area,
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00:03:28,980 --> 00:03:33,140
a major search by ground and air
looking for two other girls.
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00:03:33,190 --> 00:03:34,770
Anissa Weier and Morgan Geyser
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00:03:34,810 --> 00:03:36,610
are accused
of stabbing their friend
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00:03:36,650 --> 00:03:38,150
and leaving her for dead.
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00:03:38,190 --> 00:03:41,110
Weier and Geyser lured Payton
into the woods
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00:03:41,150 --> 00:03:43,360
Police say that's when Geyser,
holding the knife,
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00:03:43,410 --> 00:03:46,320
was told by Weier,
"Go ballistic, go crazy."
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00:03:48,700 --> 00:03:50,040
And what happened?
26
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,500
Payton said,
"Then she started."
27
00:03:52,540 --> 00:03:54,420
Geyser began to stab
the 12-year-old,
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00:03:54,460 --> 00:03:57,670
as she screamed, 19 times
with a five-inch blade.
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00:03:57,710 --> 00:04:00,170
In the arms, legs, and torso.
30
00:04:00,220 --> 00:04:02,920
One of the knife wounds
missed a major artery
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00:04:02,970 --> 00:04:05,470
near her heart
by just a millimeter.
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00:04:07,890 --> 00:04:09,350
Payton somehow survived.
33
00:04:09,390 --> 00:04:10,970
She crawled out of those woods.
34
00:04:11,020 --> 00:04:13,310
A bicyclist found her
on the sidewalk,
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00:04:13,350 --> 00:04:15,600
covered in blood
and begging for help.
36
00:04:15,650 --> 00:04:19,190
When asked who attacked her,
she said, "My best friend."
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00:04:20,860 --> 00:04:23,240
Police say the suspects
were inspired by a character
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00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:25,200
on a website called Creepypasta,
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00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,070
a site filled
with scary stories.
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00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:28,530
Now, the story they followed
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00:04:28,580 --> 00:04:30,870
was about a character
called Slenderman.
42
00:04:30,910 --> 00:04:34,620
A tall, fictional boogeyman
featured on Internet blogs.
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00:04:34,670 --> 00:04:36,540
Slenderman, a faceless ghoul
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00:04:36,580 --> 00:04:38,460
many parents have likely
never heard of.
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00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:40,380
If you don't know
who Slenderman is...
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00:04:40,420 --> 00:04:43,460
well, we didn't either,
but plenty of young kids do.
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00:04:43,510 --> 00:04:45,423
If you don't know who Slenderman
is, you live under a rock.
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00:04:45,430 --> 00:04:46,510
Who's that?
49
00:04:46,550 --> 00:04:49,600
Run! Run! Run!
50
00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:51,350
Oh my god, run! No, run!
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00:04:51,390 --> 00:04:54,180
- Oh my god!
- Oh my god!
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00:04:54,230 --> 00:04:56,230
Anissa Weier and Morgan Geyser
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00:04:56,270 --> 00:04:58,270
were found walking
near the interstate.
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00:04:58,310 --> 00:05:00,270
They later told police
they planned to walk
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00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,030
to Slenderman's mansion.
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00:05:02,070 --> 00:05:03,530
Police say it's also who
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00:05:03,570 --> 00:05:06,280
the young suspects claimed
they wanted to please.
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00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,530
Anissa felt as though
she needed to prove
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00:05:09,580 --> 00:05:12,910
that Slenderman existed and would be
able to do that by killing somebody.
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00:05:12,950 --> 00:05:16,750
And Morgan said that her family
would be in danger if they didn't.
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00:05:16,790 --> 00:05:19,210
Prosecutors have charged
the girls as adults.
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00:05:19,250 --> 00:05:20,630
If convicted on the charges,
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00:05:20,670 --> 00:05:22,550
each 12-year-old faces
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00:05:22,590 --> 00:05:25,840
up to 65 years in prison.
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00:06:57,850 --> 00:07:00,980
Did it seem to you at any point
during your interview with Morgan
66
00:07:01,020 --> 00:07:03,230
that she was remorseful
about what she had done?
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00:07:03,270 --> 00:07:05,980
Absolutely none.
68
00:07:06,030 --> 00:07:08,940
Did she cry at all at any point
during your interview of her?
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00:07:08,990 --> 00:07:10,860
There was no emotion
from her at all.
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00:07:18,330 --> 00:07:21,580
Did you, after discussing
the incident itself,
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00:07:21,620 --> 00:07:23,790
have any conversation
with Payton
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00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,500
about how she felt about Morgan
and Anissa at this point?
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00:07:27,550 --> 00:07:33,430
She said that Morgan should go to
jail for the rest of her life...
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00:07:33,470 --> 00:07:37,600
and that Anissa should
go to jail too, but not as long
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00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,850
because she was involved
but she didn't stab her.
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00:07:40,890 --> 00:07:42,230
She just stood there
and watched.
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00:07:52,910 --> 00:07:54,280
Hi, Morgan.
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00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,660
Hi, Morgan.
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00:08:07,710 --> 00:08:11,460
Morgan was a surprise.
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00:08:11,510 --> 00:08:16,590
And I didn't know how to feel
about it at first...
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00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,810
but I knew that I loved her.
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00:08:23,650 --> 00:08:24,940
Yay!
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00:08:24,980 --> 00:08:28,980
And she changed
our lives drastically
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00:08:29,030 --> 00:08:30,440
and for the better.
85
00:08:32,950 --> 00:08:34,780
Morgan's always been quirky,
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00:08:34,820 --> 00:08:37,530
and she's always marched
to the beat of her own drum.
87
00:08:40,330 --> 00:08:43,790
Even from...
from little on...
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00:08:43,830 --> 00:08:47,210
she didn't care
what people think about her,
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00:08:47,250 --> 00:08:52,550
which I think is a wonderful trait,
especially for... for a girl.
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00:08:52,590 --> 00:08:54,550
Girls are usually so...
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00:08:54,590 --> 00:08:56,800
so self-conscious
and concerned about...
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00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,550
about what others think of them,
and Morgan was never like that.
93
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,350
You know, she just...
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00:09:03,390 --> 00:09:05,430
She always just did
her own thing,
95
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,440
and if people didn't like it,
96
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,060
well, that was their problem.
97
00:09:10,110 --> 00:09:14,940
Kitties and puppies
aren't wild animals.
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00:09:14,990 --> 00:09:17,780
- No, that's right.
- They're not. They're pets.
99
00:09:17,820 --> 00:09:19,410
I had a camera in her face
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00:09:19,450 --> 00:09:21,530
for a good portion
of her childhood,
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00:09:21,580 --> 00:09:24,700
so I think she got sick
of it sometimes.
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00:09:29,460 --> 00:09:34,130
She got a real miniature baby grand
piano for Christmas one year.
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00:09:34,170 --> 00:09:36,800
And she would sit there
for quite a long time,
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00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,930
just making up
sweet little songs.
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00:09:39,970 --> 00:09:42,720
And we tried to capture as many
of them as we could on video,
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00:09:42,770 --> 00:09:46,100
but usually as soon as she realized
that we were paying attention
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00:09:46,140 --> 00:09:49,100
or recording her,
she would stop.
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00:09:49,150 --> 00:09:53,770
They'll stay stray forever
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00:09:56,070 --> 00:09:59,950
One thing about Morgan
that always struck us...
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00:09:59,990 --> 00:10:04,450
as a little...
odd was that she...
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00:10:05,620 --> 00:10:08,160
She didn't react the way
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00:10:08,210 --> 00:10:11,960
that you would
expect her to react...
113
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,590
like at the movies.
114
00:10:14,630 --> 00:10:20,300
Like, if something bad happened
to the main character, she...
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00:10:21,430 --> 00:10:23,350
she wouldn't
have empathy for them.
116
00:10:23,390 --> 00:10:24,970
Bambi, come here!
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00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:27,930
Look.
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00:10:27,980 --> 00:10:30,640
New spring grass.
119
00:10:30,690 --> 00:10:34,900
I remember watching "Bambi"
with her for the first time.
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00:10:34,940 --> 00:10:37,230
We were so worried
to watch it with her,
121
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,160
because we thought she was gonna be
so upset when... when the mother died.
122
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,240
Bambi, quick! The thicket!
123
00:10:50,830 --> 00:10:53,630
Faster! Faster, Bambi!
124
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:58,800
Don't look back!
Keep running! Keep running!
125
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,640
But the mother died,
and Morgan just said,
126
00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:09,640
"Run Bambi, run! Get out
of there, save yourself!"
127
00:11:09,690 --> 00:11:12,520
You know?
And she wasn't sad about it.
128
00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:14,980
We made it!
129
00:11:16,230 --> 00:11:17,820
We made it, Mother!
130
00:11:18,820 --> 00:11:19,860
We...
131
00:11:20,820 --> 00:11:21,990
Mother!
132
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,910
And I could think of...
133
00:11:27,950 --> 00:11:31,580
a lot of other examples
along those lines
134
00:11:31,620 --> 00:11:33,620
where she hasn't reacted
in the way
135
00:11:33,670 --> 00:11:36,840
that we would expect
a little girl to react.
136
00:11:47,810 --> 00:11:51,770
We were aware that Morgan
was interested in Slenderman.
137
00:11:54,610 --> 00:11:58,570
She would show us some of the
characters and some of the stories.
138
00:12:00,740 --> 00:12:03,110
While I wasn't thrilled
about her interest,
139
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,030
I didn't really see
the harm in it either.
140
00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:10,490
We never thought
for a moment that she...
141
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:16,080
She could possibly believe
that it was real.
142
00:12:16,130 --> 00:12:18,750
When I was Morgan's age, I...
143
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,420
I remember biking home from the
library with Stephen King's "It."
144
00:12:23,470 --> 00:12:27,180
You know, so I liked that sort
of thing too when I was her age,
145
00:12:27,220 --> 00:12:32,390
and I think most kids her age do like
scary stories and horror movies and...
146
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,480
scary stories on the Internet, you know?
So, that's all that we...
147
00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,400
that's all that
we thought that it was.
148
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,900
I just can't imagine her...
149
00:12:42,950 --> 00:12:46,610
I can't imagine her coming up
with that plan on her own.
150
00:12:48,620 --> 00:12:51,290
My bonnie...
151
00:12:52,370 --> 00:12:57,580
My bonnie lies
over the ocean
152
00:12:57,630 --> 00:13:02,630
My bonnie
lies over the sea
153
00:13:02,670 --> 00:13:07,340
My bonnie lies
over the ocean
154
00:13:07,390 --> 00:13:11,890
So bring back
my bonnie to me
155
00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:18,400
Bring back, bring back
156
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,730
Oh, bring back
my bonnie to me
157
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,070
Bring back!
158
00:13:26,950 --> 00:13:28,950
Bring back
Back
159
00:13:28,990 --> 00:13:34,790
Oh, bring back my bonnie
to me Bonnie... me
160
00:13:43,510 --> 00:13:46,380
She lost a tooth, so the tooth
fairy gave her a dollar.
161
00:13:46,430 --> 00:13:48,430
It was that tooth.
162
00:13:48,470 --> 00:13:50,300
I was telling her...
I was like, "A dollar?"
163
00:13:50,350 --> 00:13:52,550
I said, "I only ever got
quarters from the tooth fairy."
164
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,720
She was happy.
165
00:13:55,770 --> 00:13:57,140
The tooth fairy
gave her a dollar.
166
00:14:01,820 --> 00:14:04,730
This was the last video I have.
167
00:14:04,780 --> 00:14:08,990
This was at the end of her
sixth grade year for school.
168
00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:13,080
Hush, hush,
somebody's callin' my name
169
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,330
Hush! Somebody's
callin' my name
170
00:14:17,370 --> 00:14:21,210
Hush, hush,
somebody's callin' my name
171
00:14:21,250 --> 00:14:25,300
Oh my Lord, oh my Lord,
what should I do?
172
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:34,180
Yes, this is Anissa's
very pink bedroom.
173
00:14:36,930 --> 00:14:40,140
At the time that we painted
this, pink was the thing.
174
00:14:42,190 --> 00:14:45,480
Anissa's his person.
Tiger is Anissa's cat.
175
00:14:45,530 --> 00:14:48,610
After Anissa left...
176
00:14:48,650 --> 00:14:50,650
he would come up here
and he'd spend a lot of time
177
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:52,160
just walking around,
nosing around,
178
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:53,490
looking for Anissa.
179
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,330
You know, nobody uses...
180
00:14:58,370 --> 00:15:00,790
the bed while she's gone.
181
00:15:00,830 --> 00:15:03,580
I don't know,
maybe the cat does, but...
182
00:15:03,630 --> 00:15:06,460
I guess it just made more sense
to take everything apart
183
00:15:06,510 --> 00:15:09,760
and wash it
and when she comes home,
184
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,760
it's all clean and ready to go.
185
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:14,890
It's just a matter of when.
186
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,680
She would come
in here to practice choir.
187
00:15:20,730 --> 00:15:24,150
She did projects
that she would have to FaceTime
188
00:15:24,190 --> 00:15:26,320
with two or three different kids
189
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,820
from this flight academy class
she was in.
190
00:15:28,860 --> 00:15:30,860
'Cause I'd pop in
on a regular basis.
191
00:15:30,910 --> 00:15:32,660
I'd just you know,
"What are you doing?"
192
00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:37,490
I see a face on the iPad.
"Okay, who are you talking to?"
193
00:15:37,540 --> 00:15:39,620
You know, "What are
you guys working on?"
194
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,250
And then you know, most days...
195
00:15:45,090 --> 00:15:48,050
you know, 7:30, "Anissa,
you're done with your iPad."
196
00:15:48,090 --> 00:15:51,380
Shut it down, come downstairs,
be with your family."
197
00:15:53,590 --> 00:15:54,800
And she never argued.
198
00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:01,140
People have asked me if I saw any signs
in my daughter and this and that.
199
00:16:01,190 --> 00:16:04,520
And I'm just like, "No. I knew
what she was doing in here."
200
00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,940
Because when she wasn't doing her
choir practice, that door was open."
201
00:16:10,820 --> 00:16:12,360
You know, all of the kids...
202
00:16:12,410 --> 00:16:14,700
not just Anissa, all
of them... they know...
203
00:16:14,740 --> 00:16:18,740
there's no closed doors
in this house unless you're...
204
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:20,950
fresh out of the shower
or getting ready for bed.
205
00:16:22,330 --> 00:16:23,410
So...
206
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,080
for people to say...
207
00:16:28,130 --> 00:16:29,800
I wasn't involved...
208
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:36,590
Apart from sitting in the corner
and watching every move she makes,
209
00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:38,633
I don't know how much
more involved I could've been.
210
00:16:42,180 --> 00:16:43,980
My focus is Anissa...
211
00:16:44,940 --> 00:16:46,020
not Slenderman.
212
00:17:41,870 --> 00:17:43,410
And what is your name?
213
00:17:43,450 --> 00:17:46,160
Anissa Weier.
Anissa, okay.
214
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:50,080
Okay, Just kind of...
215
00:17:50,130 --> 00:17:52,170
give me a look.
Give me a look.
216
00:18:05,140 --> 00:18:06,350
Morgan.
217
00:18:08,980 --> 00:18:10,690
- How you doing?
- Fine.
218
00:18:10,730 --> 00:18:11,770
Come on up.
219
00:18:15,070 --> 00:18:17,740
Morgan, all right.
220
00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:30,180
Hmm.
221
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:33,190
Okay.
222
00:19:36,780 --> 00:19:38,280
All rise, please.
223
00:19:40,990 --> 00:19:42,950
I thank you. Please be seated.
224
00:19:45,950 --> 00:19:50,750
Court will call the matter, State of
Wisconsin versus Morgan E. Geyser
225
00:19:50,790 --> 00:19:54,500
and also State versus
Anissa E. Weier.
226
00:19:54,540 --> 00:19:59,170
Good morning. The case is here
today on a number of matters.
227
00:19:59,210 --> 00:20:04,340
The first matter I'll address
is the issue of... competency.
228
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,560
They're glad...
they're...
229
00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:51,720
Uhh...
230
00:21:06,780 --> 00:21:09,280
So...
231
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,300
There was a sleepover
the prior night
232
00:21:22,340 --> 00:21:24,420
for Morgan's 12th birthday.
233
00:21:25,930 --> 00:21:30,050
We knew that
there was Anissa, Morgan,
234
00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:34,390
and a third girl
that we've never met...
235
00:21:35,690 --> 00:21:39,440
and that they were all
at Morgan's house.
236
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,770
Morgan and Anissa have
only known each other
237
00:21:41,820 --> 00:21:44,070
since they started sixth grade.
238
00:21:44,110 --> 00:21:46,700
They met because they...
they rode the same bus.
239
00:21:48,570 --> 00:21:52,910
We were so happy that Morgan
had made a good friend
240
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:57,250
so... so close, someone else
in the neighborhood.
241
00:21:57,290 --> 00:22:00,880
We were...
we were so happy for her...
242
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,790
to have someone to play with.
243
00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:23,400
Uh-huh.
Okay.
244
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,650
My name is Bella,
and I was nominated
245
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:29,530
to do the Ice Bucket Challenge
for ALS by...
246
00:22:29,570 --> 00:22:32,990
Morgan and Bella have known
each other since kindergarten,
247
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,660
and they've been best friends
since fourth grade.
248
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:39,210
- Are you guys ready?
- I guess.
249
00:22:39,250 --> 00:22:40,370
Let's go.
One, two, three.
250
00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:45,210
One, two, three.
251
00:22:45,260 --> 00:22:47,010
Oh my god!
252
00:23:00,690 --> 00:23:01,730
Umm...
253
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:16,030
Okay.
254
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:12,300
Umm...
255
00:27:12,860 --> 00:27:14,190
Hello, Dr. Zipes!
256
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:17,610
I... I don't have...
I... uh, wait.
257
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,200
Hello?
258
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,870
Actually, the quality
seems fine on my end.
259
00:27:24,910 --> 00:27:28,870
And yeah, my Skype is
just not having it today.
260
00:27:28,910 --> 00:27:31,040
You... have we started now?
261
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,500
- Yes, yes.
When... when did we start?
262
00:27:34,540 --> 00:27:35,790
Hello.
Hello.
263
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,550
- How are you?
- Good.
264
00:27:37,590 --> 00:27:39,010
Who are you Skyping with?
265
00:27:39,050 --> 00:27:41,880
Someone... I'm getting
interviewed for a documentary.
266
00:27:41,930 --> 00:27:45,720
Okay, then... what... so let's start...
start with the question then.
267
00:28:00,070 --> 00:28:03,030
Slenderman is
the modern-day boogeyman.
268
00:28:05,660 --> 00:28:08,200
Because it's faceless,
because it's quiet,
269
00:28:08,250 --> 00:28:10,120
because it doesn't speak words,
270
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,250
it's open to a lot
of interpretation
271
00:28:12,290 --> 00:28:15,080
and open to a lot of possibilities
and to a lot of projection.
272
00:28:15,130 --> 00:28:17,420
It varies from person to person
273
00:28:17,460 --> 00:28:19,840
as to what
Slenderman actually is.
274
00:28:21,970 --> 00:28:24,010
He's the creature
that lives in my closet.
275
00:28:26,510 --> 00:28:29,680
He's the guy
in the windowless white van.
276
00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:34,730
The faceless stranger
who kidnaps kids.
277
00:28:44,490 --> 00:28:45,820
It encapsulates, symbolically,
278
00:28:45,870 --> 00:28:47,740
a lot of these other
kind of societal fears
279
00:28:47,780 --> 00:28:49,620
that we've had for ages and ages
280
00:28:49,660 --> 00:28:51,410
and kind of conveniently
wraps them up
281
00:28:51,460 --> 00:28:53,540
and makes it really malleable.
282
00:28:53,580 --> 00:28:57,710
Because, really, Slenderman can
be whomever you want him to be.
283
00:29:49,550 --> 00:29:51,260
We can empirically look back
284
00:29:51,310 --> 00:29:54,020
and find out where
Slenderman was created.
285
00:29:54,060 --> 00:29:56,850
It was created
in 2009 by Eric Knudsen
286
00:29:56,900 --> 00:29:58,900
under the screen name
"Victor Surge"
287
00:29:58,940 --> 00:30:00,940
as part of a Photoshop contest
288
00:30:00,980 --> 00:30:02,230
to try to create something
289
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,230
that looked real
that really wasn't.
290
00:30:06,570 --> 00:30:10,410
Urban legends on the Internet
has been a thing for decades.
291
00:30:12,410 --> 00:30:13,990
There was already
a base audience
292
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,500
that was ready
for a globalized project
293
00:30:17,540 --> 00:30:20,120
to kind of build a myth.
294
00:30:22,590 --> 00:30:25,130
It actually began with the games
295
00:30:25,170 --> 00:30:27,050
that spun off from Slenderman.
296
00:30:29,220 --> 00:30:31,590
It's so heavily
visually oriented
297
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,600
that it's replicable
without really having
298
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,310
to understand
too much cultural context.
299
00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:42,610
And from there,
300
00:30:42,650 --> 00:30:46,190
it spread
to every available platform
301
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:47,820
and medium on the web.
302
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:50,320
Tumblr...
303
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,320
DeviantArt...
304
00:30:53,330 --> 00:30:55,240
YouTube...
305
00:30:55,290 --> 00:30:57,620
and also the 4chan's
Paranormal Board.
306
00:30:58,580 --> 00:31:00,080
All of these websites have
307
00:31:00,130 --> 00:31:05,460
a really strong affinity
with fan art in general.
308
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:17,140
"Slender is coming"?
309
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,360
YouTube was
the international hub
310
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,320
for non-English speakers
311
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,740
to kind of break their way
into the myth.
312
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,430
Creepypasta is this generic term
313
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:54,550
for horror stories
that gets copied
314
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,010
then pasted because it's good.
315
00:31:56,060 --> 00:31:59,310
As it spreads,
people start tweaking
316
00:31:59,350 --> 00:32:02,270
some parts of the story or
pick up where they left off.
317
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,860
These are stories
that branched out
318
00:32:06,900 --> 00:32:10,780
of the main canon of Slenderman.
319
00:32:14,030 --> 00:32:16,280
"Oh, should I travel
through the woods,"
320
00:32:18,580 --> 00:32:21,040
"Or should I not
wishing I would?"
321
00:32:22,420 --> 00:32:25,290
"For above me
lurks within the trees"
322
00:32:26,540 --> 00:32:29,590
"No one could hear
my deathly screams"
323
00:32:31,380 --> 00:32:34,430
"The palest man,
the blackest suit"
324
00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:36,760
"Bigger than the tallest brute"
325
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,180
"Six black arms will grab you up"
326
00:32:43,230 --> 00:32:45,650
"Or stalk you
till you just give up"
327
00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:51,230
"He'll leave your body
not to eat
328
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,110
But to staple
your corpse upon a tree."
329
00:32:57,370 --> 00:33:01,490
"Fear the man, the Slenderman
330
00:33:01,540 --> 00:33:03,910
For he can do
what no one can."
331
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,670
Slenderman kind
of represents an opportunity
332
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,430
to see where people are nervous
333
00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:17,590
about certain things
and what excites them
334
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,560
and what brings them together,
because it changes.
335
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,470
It changes based
on who's telling the story.
336
00:33:28,730 --> 00:33:30,360
Often in the adult world
337
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,820
we forget how much
it sucks to be a kid.
338
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,820
Slenderman can also be seen
as a guardian angel.
339
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,040
Slenderman is the Grim Reaper
340
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,830
but with a heart.
341
00:33:49,460 --> 00:33:51,880
These pictures are not
so much him showing up
342
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,880
on the playground to snatch
kids away, but to rescue them.
343
00:34:01,260 --> 00:34:03,010
Stories like this can be
344
00:34:03,060 --> 00:34:05,430
a powerful aphrodisiac for...
345
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,850
for somebody who is lonely
or is troubled,
346
00:34:08,900 --> 00:34:10,700
or is trying to find
their way in the world.
347
00:34:16,740 --> 00:34:19,610
Slenderman has this entire
community of people online
348
00:34:19,660 --> 00:34:21,620
who are feeding
into the narrative
349
00:34:21,660 --> 00:34:23,073
and creating
their own versions of it.
350
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,000
It's constantly...
it's exponentially growing.
351
00:34:34,050 --> 00:34:36,090
That's the definition
of a good meme.
352
00:34:38,590 --> 00:34:40,510
In human culture,
353
00:34:40,550 --> 00:34:44,890
if it's copied
from one brain to another,
354
00:34:44,930 --> 00:34:46,100
that's a meme.
355
00:34:46,140 --> 00:34:47,600
Hi, my name is Valerie,
356
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,140
and I've decided to do
the Ice Bucket Challenge.
357
00:34:50,190 --> 00:34:52,940
I'm doing the ALS
Ice Bucket Challenge.
358
00:34:52,980 --> 00:34:57,030
I'm here to join the people bringing
attention to Lou Gehrig's disease.
359
00:35:02,030 --> 00:35:03,570
It can be an idea.
360
00:35:03,620 --> 00:35:07,200
It can be a tune.
It can be a style of dancing.
361
00:35:07,250 --> 00:35:09,290
Tired?
What do you think he's doing?
362
00:35:09,330 --> 00:35:11,290
- Planking.
- Oh, you know?
363
00:35:11,330 --> 00:35:12,710
- Yeah, I do.
- Yes!
364
00:35:12,750 --> 00:35:15,170
I am from the Internet.
365
00:35:15,210 --> 00:35:17,210
The Internet provides
366
00:35:17,260 --> 00:35:20,050
a very, very fast,
efficient, universal,
367
00:35:20,090 --> 00:35:23,970
worldwide medium
for memes to spread.
368
00:35:24,010 --> 00:35:25,300
That'll never catch on.
369
00:35:25,350 --> 00:35:27,310
No doubt.
370
00:35:28,770 --> 00:35:31,520
There may be
some memes that spread
371
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,900
like a very rapid epidemic
and then die away.
372
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:39,490
But others may have
strong persistence.
373
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:49,620
People are captivated
by Slenderman
374
00:35:49,660 --> 00:35:55,500
and wish to pass on images
or to modify images of him.
375
00:35:58,460 --> 00:36:02,130
This horrifying story
of two girls who thought
376
00:36:02,180 --> 00:36:04,970
that it was their duty to
Slenderman to go and kill someone.
377
00:36:06,890 --> 00:36:08,640
Well, that's what I call power.
378
00:36:11,020 --> 00:36:14,520
That's very substantial power,
very horrific power.
379
00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:32,460
- Unconsciously,
- Slenderman stems
380
00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:35,500
from a tradition that...
that goes way, way back.
381
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:45,130
To a great extent, the Brothers
Grimm collected tales that deal
382
00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:50,180
with what I would call
universal human struggles
383
00:36:50,220 --> 00:36:52,270
that we continue to have today.
384
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:54,190
I think that's
one of the reasons
385
00:36:54,230 --> 00:36:57,900
why people are
responding to this tale,
386
00:36:57,940 --> 00:36:59,520
and they're telling
their own versions,
387
00:36:59,570 --> 00:37:01,150
their own horror stories
388
00:37:01,190 --> 00:37:04,650
about what is happening
in the world today.
389
00:37:06,450 --> 00:37:09,530
Slenderman is
a tale about a character,
390
00:37:09,580 --> 00:37:13,370
a strange weird character,
who may feed upon children.
391
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:16,830
It made me think of a legend
392
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,290
that Jacob
and Wilhelm Grimm collected
393
00:37:19,340 --> 00:37:22,510
called "The Pied Piper
of Hamelin."
394
00:37:25,130 --> 00:37:30,350
Many years ago a town was
being devastated by rats...
395
00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:32,560
in the gutters...
on the streets...
396
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,730
in the cellars.
397
00:37:37,730 --> 00:37:39,690
The Pied Piper comes
out of nowhere.
398
00:37:39,730 --> 00:37:44,190
And he's a very odd,
strange-looking person,
399
00:37:45,660 --> 00:37:47,490
but he has a flute
400
00:37:47,530 --> 00:37:50,780
or some type of pipe
that he plays.
401
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:58,040
The man said, "If you want me to get
rid of the rats, you must pay me."
402
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,130
So they said, "Yes,
as much as you want
403
00:38:01,170 --> 00:38:03,170
if you can get rid
of the rats."
404
00:38:03,210 --> 00:38:07,220
The Piper began
blowing on the pipe.
405
00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:09,680
The rats began following.
406
00:38:15,810 --> 00:38:21,060
The Piper had all the rats
jump into the river.
407
00:38:25,530 --> 00:38:28,780
But the mayor and the
councilmen cheat him.
408
00:38:28,820 --> 00:38:30,910
"And the Piper said," You know,
409
00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:33,080
"there are other
tunes I can pipe
410
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,200
"and ways that I can repay you
411
00:38:35,250 --> 00:38:37,370
in a way that
you will never forget."
412
00:38:42,300 --> 00:38:45,090
So the Piper took
his pipe to his lips again
413
00:38:45,130 --> 00:38:47,470
and he began piping.
414
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:52,470
The people froze, but the
children followed him.
415
00:38:57,020 --> 00:38:58,480
There was an opening,
416
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:01,650
a sudden opening
in the mountain.
417
00:39:01,690 --> 00:39:05,820
And all the children headed
toward this opening.
418
00:39:05,860 --> 00:39:08,990
And as the last one entered,
419
00:39:09,030 --> 00:39:11,570
the mountain closed,
420
00:39:11,620 --> 00:39:14,950
and the Piper
went inside as well.
421
00:39:21,460 --> 00:39:26,340
Depending on the times and the
person who is telling their version
422
00:39:26,380 --> 00:39:28,210
of "The Pied Piper,"
423
00:39:28,260 --> 00:39:30,340
he can be many different things.
424
00:39:41,940 --> 00:39:44,560
So he is
a very mysterious figure.
425
00:39:44,610 --> 00:39:47,940
We don't know
whether he's evil or good.
426
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:51,320
We don't know whether he's going
to do anything to these children.
427
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,240
The children never return.
428
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,070
Nobody ever hears about them.
429
00:40:04,130 --> 00:40:06,040
But the Pied Piper does live on.
430
00:40:55,090 --> 00:40:56,430
Umm...
431
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,730
It's almost like she was living a
whole nother life inside her head
432
00:41:08,770 --> 00:41:12,320
that we just...
that we just didn't know about.
433
00:41:19,410 --> 00:41:22,450
It's hard with kids because...
434
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:25,830
they don't necessarily
know how to differentiate
435
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,250
between fantasy
and reality to begin with.
436
00:41:30,670 --> 00:41:32,630
So, it's just hard to know...
437
00:41:32,670 --> 00:41:34,670
where... where to draw the line.
438
00:41:34,720 --> 00:41:36,470
Where does that become...
439
00:41:38,010 --> 00:41:39,140
abnormal?
440
00:41:41,810 --> 00:41:43,100
So even though, you know,
441
00:41:43,140 --> 00:41:45,600
looking back,
maybe there were some signs.
442
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,310
It's everything in retrospect.
443
00:41:59,830 --> 00:42:03,830
It's been two months
to the day on the calendar
444
00:42:03,870 --> 00:42:08,830
that she's been in Washington
County Juvenile Detention Center.
445
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,250
The first day was rough.
446
00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:12,500
You know, you get in there...
447
00:42:14,380 --> 00:42:17,970
you have to learn all your check-in
procedures and everything.
448
00:42:20,430 --> 00:42:23,470
You know, you get back there, and
you don't know what to expect.
449
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,770
There's you, there's a pane of
glass with metal bars behind it,
450
00:42:26,810 --> 00:42:29,650
and then...
there's our daughter.
451
00:42:29,690 --> 00:42:31,190
That's how it works.
452
00:43:32,130 --> 00:43:35,670
This is the first time
we are trying this.
453
00:43:35,710 --> 00:43:38,210
We got him something.
He doesn't know yet.
454
00:43:38,260 --> 00:43:40,340
It's a little mouse.
You can see him in there.
455
00:43:40,380 --> 00:43:43,840
You ready?
It's the circle of life, okay?
456
00:43:43,890 --> 00:43:45,930
Right, Cole?
Yep.
457
00:43:45,970 --> 00:43:48,140
It's just like "The
Lion King." Yeah.
458
00:43:48,180 --> 00:43:49,390
Let's see how he reacts.
459
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,140
It's the same color as the...
as the bathtub.
460
00:43:52,190 --> 00:43:55,770
Look, baby.
Look, baby, look.
461
00:43:55,820 --> 00:43:57,440
See if he notices it.
462
00:44:23,340 --> 00:44:26,140
My voice is going to take you
463
00:44:26,180 --> 00:44:29,100
to a very calm
and peaceful place.
464
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:34,900
So this part,
465
00:44:34,940 --> 00:44:38,150
striking into any soft
tissue in the body...
466
00:44:38,190 --> 00:44:40,320
the eyes, the cheeks,
467
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:41,820
cut right through the blood
468
00:44:41,860 --> 00:44:43,200
and air vessels into the throat,
469
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:44,813
get it in and out,
in and out, in and out.
470
00:44:44,820 --> 00:44:47,030
Meow, meow, meow!
471
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:48,483
So with the first one,
why do you think
472
00:44:48,490 --> 00:44:50,830
the pig passed out
when the kitten was put on it?
473
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,250
He's playing with it.
474
00:44:54,290 --> 00:44:59,170
Dog goes woof, cat
goes meow, bird goes...
475
00:44:59,210 --> 00:45:02,050
Ah! Why do you
stick a baby
476
00:45:02,090 --> 00:45:05,550
in the blender feet first?
477
00:45:05,590 --> 00:45:08,430
So you can see
the expression on it's face.
478
00:45:33,210 --> 00:45:35,370
Shh.
479
00:45:44,590 --> 00:45:46,840
I don't know if I should say,
"I hope you enjoyed it,"
480
00:45:46,890 --> 00:45:48,800
but there's the circle
of life for you.
481
00:45:48,850 --> 00:45:51,640
Talk to you later.
Thanks for watching.
482
00:46:16,370 --> 00:46:18,420
Ever since she got that iPad,
483
00:46:18,460 --> 00:46:22,380
she liked to spend a lot of private
time up in her room and...
484
00:46:22,420 --> 00:46:25,260
she watched a lot
of things that were...
485
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,220
funny to her.
486
00:46:29,260 --> 00:46:31,800
Nothing that was gross,
487
00:46:31,850 --> 00:46:36,060
or depressing,
and emotionally degrading...
488
00:46:37,650 --> 00:46:41,770
She liked...
that iPad just gave her a way
489
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:46,490
kind of not to...
to socialize with the family.
490
00:46:47,490 --> 00:46:49,280
And I totally...
491
00:46:51,410 --> 00:46:52,820
regret the iPad.
492
00:46:54,250 --> 00:46:58,290
Anissa showed me a picture once.
493
00:46:58,330 --> 00:46:59,960
She was in her bedroom,
494
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,920
and I went up to see what she
was doing, and I looked.
495
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,920
It was a picture
of this Slenderman character
496
00:47:05,970 --> 00:47:07,420
and Jack Skellington.
497
00:47:09,890 --> 00:47:15,810
At the time, it doesn't seem to
be anything inherently dangerous.
498
00:47:15,850 --> 00:47:19,480
I had no inklings that I would
need to research this further.
499
00:47:20,690 --> 00:47:22,060
The iPads will be moving
500
00:47:22,110 --> 00:47:24,520
into elementary school levels
this year.
501
00:47:24,570 --> 00:47:28,820
So, at least, our fifth-grade son is
going to be coming home with one.
502
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:31,490
His own.
503
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:41,000
So this is the yearbook
from Anissa's fifth grade year.
504
00:47:43,090 --> 00:47:45,090
And this is what Anissa wrote.
505
00:47:45,130 --> 00:47:47,800
It says, "You're like
a second dad to me."
506
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:50,800
So that was really sweet.
507
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,140
It's kind of tough
looking back on it,
508
00:47:53,180 --> 00:47:56,470
'cause if she felt that strong,
you know, just...
509
00:47:59,020 --> 00:48:00,540
maybe I could have done
something else.
510
00:48:05,980 --> 00:48:10,610
Anissa was definitely one of
the biggest outliers I've had
511
00:48:10,650 --> 00:48:14,990
just because she had
no solid connections
512
00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:18,330
with other
4th and 5th-graders.
513
00:48:18,370 --> 00:48:22,750
Anissa would definitely cry once every
couple weeks, I would want to say.
514
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:27,130
Mostly about... kids
being mean to her at school.
515
00:48:27,170 --> 00:48:31,130
She wouldn't be able to contain
herself in front of the whole class,
516
00:48:31,180 --> 00:48:33,130
and sometimes
she would just cry.
517
00:48:33,180 --> 00:48:35,050
So other kids
were aware of her...
518
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:39,140
emotions, and being upset.
519
00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:41,980
And there's times she would
come in from lunch/recess
520
00:48:42,020 --> 00:48:45,400
and cry about
not having friends.
521
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,740
I've guessed that Anissa made
a connection with Morgan
522
00:48:51,780 --> 00:48:54,360
and was happy that they
both were into Slenderman,
523
00:48:54,410 --> 00:48:56,320
was happy that
she made a new friend,
524
00:48:56,370 --> 00:48:58,330
shared a connection,
shared interest,
525
00:48:58,370 --> 00:49:02,250
and it may have spiraled
out of control from there.
526
00:49:35,070 --> 00:49:37,410
You couldn't set up
a better system to fail
527
00:49:37,450 --> 00:49:39,570
In terms of "No one
at school likes you",
528
00:49:39,620 --> 00:49:41,620
"but here's this
open-ended monster
529
00:49:41,660 --> 00:49:43,250
who will embrace you."
530
00:49:44,580 --> 00:49:46,750
The worst time
to be socially isolated
531
00:49:46,790 --> 00:49:51,170
is the time when your brain and
body are begging for camaraderie,
532
00:49:51,210 --> 00:49:54,050
for kinship,
which is adolescence.
533
00:49:54,090 --> 00:49:55,970
It's the hardest time
to be alone.
534
00:49:57,300 --> 00:49:59,510
I think in the absence
of social contact,
535
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,180
the Internet can sometimes serve
536
00:50:02,220 --> 00:50:05,100
as a peer in a way,
or a peer group.
537
00:50:06,810 --> 00:50:09,860
Those two girls in a tight-knit
group of eight friends,
538
00:50:09,900 --> 00:50:11,570
I don't think
this would've happened,
539
00:50:11,610 --> 00:50:13,643
because they wouldn't have only
been talking to each other
540
00:50:13,650 --> 00:50:15,313
and they wouldn't
have been relying so heavily
541
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:17,110
on information
from the Internet.
542
00:50:36,050 --> 00:50:39,680
Bill and I separated
in the summer of 2012.
543
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,810
It was my decision.
I asked for a divorce.
544
00:50:45,850 --> 00:50:47,980
But when a situation
got really bad,
545
00:50:48,020 --> 00:50:51,060
he was willing to still
be there and stuff.
546
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,000
She's not allowed to see
her brother or sister.
547
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:16,170
She's not allowed to see any aunts
or uncles, or cousins or anything,
548
00:51:16,220 --> 00:51:19,420
so I wanted to have
as many people
549
00:51:19,470 --> 00:51:21,890
as she could have
as often as possible.
550
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:31,900
I try to bring her mentally
out of the environment
551
00:51:31,940 --> 00:51:36,190
and try to bring her
some sunshine in her day.
552
00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:39,070
But then when I leave,
I kind of feel...
553
00:51:42,070 --> 00:51:46,490
I feel happy
that I was able to see her
554
00:51:46,540 --> 00:51:51,370
and... make her smile
for a few minutes in a day.
555
00:51:51,420 --> 00:51:53,670
But on the other hand,
I'm still kind of sad
556
00:51:53,710 --> 00:51:57,420
that I'm leaving
without my daughter, and...
557
00:51:59,050 --> 00:52:04,010
The drive home is
sometimes heart-breaking...
558
00:52:04,050 --> 00:52:08,140
but... I know
that I'll be coming up
559
00:52:08,180 --> 00:52:09,850
and seeing her
in a couple days anyways,
560
00:52:09,890 --> 00:52:12,350
and I'll just repeat
the performance and...
561
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:18,400
and hopefully, someday,
this might be my last trip
562
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,820
and... and...
563
00:52:22,070 --> 00:52:24,490
And then
she'll be home for good.
564
00:52:24,530 --> 00:52:27,330
But that might be a while off.
565
00:52:35,210 --> 00:52:38,250
You have a prepaid call from...
Anissa...
566
00:52:38,300 --> 00:52:41,510
An inmate at...
Washington County Jail.
567
00:52:41,550 --> 00:52:43,050
This call will be recorded
568
00:52:43,090 --> 00:52:45,390
and subject to
monitoring at any time.
569
00:52:45,430 --> 00:52:47,470
You may begin speaking now.
570
00:52:48,850 --> 00:52:51,310
Hello, Anissa.
So, how was your day?
571
00:52:56,820 --> 00:52:57,940
Yeah?
572
00:52:59,230 --> 00:53:00,530
Define "pretty good."
573
00:53:13,460 --> 00:53:14,830
Do you know who's sitting here?
574
00:53:16,590 --> 00:53:19,000
- Yep, Tyler's sitting here.
- Hi!
575
00:53:20,210 --> 00:53:21,710
How are you?
576
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:26,180
I've been...
577
00:53:27,390 --> 00:53:29,350
pretty good despite the cold.
578
00:53:30,350 --> 00:53:31,680
Hi, Ani!
579
00:53:35,650 --> 00:53:36,690
What's up?
580
00:53:44,570 --> 00:53:46,660
Anissa! Anissa.
581
00:53:48,450 --> 00:53:50,120
We can all tell
you're a little spun up.
582
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,200
Are you excited
to be talking to everybody?
583
00:53:53,620 --> 00:53:54,700
Yeah?
584
00:54:10,010 --> 00:54:12,560
Hey, hey hey! Anissa!
585
00:54:14,940 --> 00:54:16,690
Dial it back a notch.
586
00:54:16,730 --> 00:54:20,900
So, besides what
you've already like mentioned,
587
00:54:20,940 --> 00:54:22,400
what's up with you?
588
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,080
Okay.
589
00:54:38,500 --> 00:54:40,460
Yeah.
Just don't smile too much.
590
00:54:40,500 --> 00:54:41,670
One minute remaining.
591
00:54:41,710 --> 00:54:43,290
All right, we've got one minute,
592
00:54:43,340 --> 00:54:44,920
so you have a good night.
593
00:54:47,380 --> 00:54:49,340
Love you too.
594
00:54:49,390 --> 00:54:53,300
All right?
And I will see you tomorrow.
595
00:54:53,350 --> 00:54:56,810
So... all right. Thank you
for using IC solutions.
596
00:54:56,850 --> 00:54:58,060
Goodbye.
And there you have it.
597
00:56:27,730 --> 00:56:29,730
I don't know where
598
00:56:29,780 --> 00:56:33,280
the whole Slenderman thing...
599
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,660
started because Anissa never
talked about anything like that.
600
00:56:36,700 --> 00:56:40,370
Nobody ever talked
about Slenderman.
601
00:56:40,410 --> 00:56:44,210
Unless she was, like,
constantly Internet surfing,
602
00:56:44,250 --> 00:56:47,920
she never really showed me
anything that was bad...
603
00:56:49,300 --> 00:56:52,170
or anything scary.
604
00:56:52,220 --> 00:56:55,640
She... she is
easily frightened, though.
605
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:03,310
Maybe she did it because
she wanted to be noticed.
606
00:57:03,350 --> 00:57:06,690
Because, honestly, at her school
607
00:57:06,730 --> 00:57:09,980
I didn't know that
she didn't have many friends.
608
00:57:10,030 --> 00:57:13,820
She told me that she had lots of
friends, lots of guys liked her,
609
00:57:13,860 --> 00:57:16,490
and a bunch of...
and she was accepted,
610
00:57:16,530 --> 00:57:18,950
and she was having
a great time at school.
611
00:57:18,990 --> 00:57:23,080
But... she was
constantly picked on,
612
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:27,920
and she never really fit in.
She was a follower.
613
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,590
All rise.
614
00:57:34,220 --> 00:57:35,880
- Okay, thank you.
- Please be seated.
615
00:57:37,300 --> 00:57:40,430
I think some kids are just...
616
00:57:41,890 --> 00:57:43,430
big believers.
617
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,770
They can't help but believe
everything they hear.
618
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,063
Do you swear to tell the
truth, the whole truth,
619
00:57:55,070 --> 00:57:56,613
and nothing but the truth,
so help you God?
620
00:57:56,620 --> 00:57:58,780
- Yes, I do.
- In this case
621
00:57:58,830 --> 00:58:02,580
were you assigned to interview
the victim, Payton Leutner?
622
00:58:02,620 --> 00:58:04,040
Yes, I was.
623
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:07,420
At some point, your discussion
got into the area
624
00:58:07,460 --> 00:58:10,340
of a birthday party
that was planned for Morgan?
625
00:58:10,380 --> 00:58:12,550
Payton said that
the birthday party
626
00:58:12,590 --> 00:58:14,760
had been planned
for several weeks,
627
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,260
and it was for May 30th,
628
00:58:17,300 --> 00:58:20,600
and that they had planned
to go do Skateland
629
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:22,600
and sleep over
at Morgan's house.
630
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:25,980
They were being
normal little girls.
631
00:58:26,020 --> 00:58:27,553
They were running
up and down the stairs,
632
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:29,600
holding hands and giggling.
633
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:33,480
There was no...
634
00:58:34,490 --> 00:58:37,950
indication that anything
was... was off
635
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:39,860
or that we had anything to...
636
00:58:42,410 --> 00:58:44,450
to be worried about.
637
00:58:44,500 --> 00:58:47,540
After Skateland,
they came back to Morgan's house
638
00:58:47,580 --> 00:58:50,120
and they went into the basement.
639
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:39,050
And we... we woke up
in the morning,
640
00:59:39,090 --> 00:59:43,590
and we had donuts and
strawberries for breakfast,
641
00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:45,560
and everything was very normal.
642
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:47,520
The girls were laughing and...
643
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:49,890
having a good time.
644
00:59:52,060 --> 00:59:54,900
And they asked if they
could go to the park,
645
00:59:54,940 --> 00:59:56,860
and I didn't think
anything of it.
646
00:59:56,900 --> 00:59:58,860
I said, "Yeah, of course
you can go to the park."
647
00:59:58,900 --> 01:00:01,450
And, you know,
Morgan said goodbye
648
01:00:01,490 --> 01:00:03,070
and told me she loved me.
649
01:00:47,370 --> 01:00:51,080
After playing on the playground
equipment for a while,
650
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:55,000
they went into the bathroom,
all three of them.
651
01:01:47,140 --> 01:01:48,510
She didn't want to go to sleep,
652
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:51,180
so she didn't sit there
with her eyes closed,
653
01:01:51,220 --> 01:01:55,730
and at some point, Anissa
hit the front of her head
654
01:01:55,770 --> 01:01:58,480
and caused the back
of her head to...
655
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:00,690
slam against the wall.
656
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:13,240
Basically.
657
01:02:31,390 --> 01:02:35,730
And Morgan said, "I thought we agreed
that you were going to do this."
658
01:02:36,730 --> 01:02:38,480
Did Payton tell you anything
659
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:40,900
about what Payton
was thinking about that?
660
01:02:40,940 --> 01:02:43,900
I don't think she understood
what was going on.
661
01:03:14,970 --> 01:03:17,060
Thank you!
662
01:03:18,650 --> 01:03:22,230
- Hey, that's what I wanted.
- Ooh.
663
01:03:22,270 --> 01:03:25,190
It's a super-fancy
touch screen one.
664
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:29,070
I want that one.
It's already charged...
665
01:03:29,110 --> 01:03:31,070
and there's already
some books on it for you.
666
01:03:32,330 --> 01:03:33,740
Wow.
667
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:37,660
Can we put it together?
668
01:03:37,710 --> 01:03:41,040
Mm-hmm. What do you think?
Pretty cool? Yeah?
669
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:43,670
I had the conversation
with Morgan...
670
01:03:43,710 --> 01:03:47,210
the birds and the bees
conversation.
671
01:03:47,260 --> 01:03:50,260
I explained about the changes that
you go through during puberty,
672
01:03:50,300 --> 01:03:53,260
and I explained
about getting your period.
673
01:03:53,300 --> 01:03:57,930
And I finish, and she looks
at me, and she goes,
674
01:03:57,980 --> 01:04:00,230
"Mommy, I don't think
I believe you."
675
01:04:00,270 --> 01:04:03,350
"That doesn't really happen."
676
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:08,320
Thank you!
677
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:09,690
You're welcome!
678
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:12,950
Morgan did believe in Santa,
679
01:04:12,990 --> 01:04:15,490
the Tooth Fairy,
and the Easter Bunny,
680
01:04:15,540 --> 01:04:20,290
and actually believed
in Santa until she was 11.
681
01:04:25,750 --> 01:04:27,800
And I guess I just thought,
682
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:30,840
"What parent tells their
child that Santa's not real?
683
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:34,640
Who's... who's in a hurry
for their child to grow up?"
684
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:49,320
There are a lot
of strange things
685
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:52,150
in the world
that we just can't explain.
686
01:04:54,570 --> 01:04:57,910
So we just make up things
to try to help explain them.
687
01:04:59,450 --> 01:05:01,000
To believe in something...
688
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:02,960
I don't know,
the Loch Ness Monster
689
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,670
or the boogeyman...
isn't... that hard
690
01:05:06,710 --> 01:05:09,090
to believe that people
actually do believe it.
691
01:05:11,670 --> 01:05:17,050
You can't say for sure
that it is real or not.
692
01:05:20,850 --> 01:05:25,480
And I do believe
that they did believe
693
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:27,650
that it was real.
694
01:05:37,990 --> 01:05:40,240
What is it about certain kinds
of storybooks
695
01:05:40,290 --> 01:05:42,910
that make kids more or less likely
to believe that they're real?
696
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,330
What is it about aspects
of the Internet that affects
697
01:05:47,380 --> 01:05:49,750
whether kids think things
on it are real or not real?
698
01:05:52,050 --> 01:05:55,420
I think the concept of what's real
has always been pretty messy.
699
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:01,220
Technology is creating
these new situations
700
01:06:01,270 --> 01:06:03,520
in which it's becoming
even messier.
701
01:06:07,770 --> 01:06:10,610
These two girls, maybe they
were both strong believers,
702
01:06:10,650 --> 01:06:12,730
but then the fact
that they were both together
703
01:06:12,780 --> 01:06:15,900
was creating an even
stronger context for belief.
704
01:06:20,950 --> 01:06:25,450
That's kind of how Santa Claus
works or is perceived to work.
705
01:06:26,580 --> 01:06:28,540
Sort of like
"The Believers' Club."
706
01:06:28,580 --> 01:06:32,250
There's this big fear that if I stop
believing I won't get the presents.
707
01:06:35,380 --> 01:06:37,930
What is the benefit
of being a believer?
708
01:06:40,050 --> 01:06:43,260
Feeling like you're special,
you're a part of something,
709
01:06:43,310 --> 01:06:47,140
that you can become
a part of just by believing.
710
01:06:47,190 --> 01:06:49,900
That's a lot easier
than a lot of other clubs,
711
01:06:49,940 --> 01:06:51,810
you know,
especially at that age.
712
01:06:51,860 --> 01:06:55,360
But all you need to do for the
Slenderman club is just believe.
713
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,060
If there's one thing the cult
of Slenderman is about,
714
01:07:28,100 --> 01:07:32,480
it's about making
it all believable,
715
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,520
especially by remaining
unverifiable.
716
01:07:35,570 --> 01:07:39,650
And that's really kind of
how folk belief works.
717
01:07:39,700 --> 01:07:42,360
Because you can't prove
beyond a shadow of a doubt
718
01:07:42,410 --> 01:07:45,030
that Slenderman is fake or real.
719
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:17,530
Hey, guys, it's Shane.
720
01:08:17,570 --> 01:08:21,650
So, ever since I found out
about Slenderman,
721
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:26,030
he's been haunting my dreams,
like every single dream.
722
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:28,080
And I'm really scared,
723
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:30,450
so I'm going to show you
a picture...
724
01:08:30,500 --> 01:08:34,750
I'm... I'm just going to show you
some pictures that I got of him.
725
01:08:34,790 --> 01:08:36,000
There it is.
Look at this.
726
01:08:36,050 --> 01:08:37,500
Look right there
in the background.
727
01:08:37,550 --> 01:08:39,130
- Right there.
- See, it's Slenderman.
728
01:08:39,170 --> 01:08:41,220
That's my... that's my sister
when she was young.
729
01:08:41,260 --> 01:08:43,590
And then we found that
in the background.
730
01:08:44,890 --> 01:08:47,760
Oh, it's really scary.
Um, Bye.
731
01:08:50,980 --> 01:08:52,270
Cartwheel.
732
01:08:53,650 --> 01:08:55,060
Round off.
733
01:08:56,860 --> 01:08:59,610
Oh my god, my stomach is killing me.
Back walkover.
734
01:09:00,990 --> 01:09:02,740
Crappy back walkover.
735
01:09:03,740 --> 01:09:05,910
Mine... ugh.
Mine, too.
736
01:09:05,950 --> 01:09:07,280
Back walkover.
737
01:09:07,330 --> 01:09:10,450
Oh my god.
738
01:09:10,500 --> 01:09:14,330
Round off. Sam, we need to do...
Sam, we need to do this later.
739
01:09:14,380 --> 01:09:15,790
Can you go a little bit longer?
740
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:18,090
No, we'll just stop
this one and then we'll...
741
01:09:18,130 --> 01:09:20,590
and then we'll just do
another one later,
742
01:09:20,630 --> 01:09:23,550
'cause my st... oh my god, I feel like
I'm about to throw up right now.
743
01:09:23,590 --> 01:09:25,470
All right, just hurry up
and do one more.
744
01:09:28,930 --> 01:09:31,970
- What the fuck?
- Oh my God! Run! Run!
745
01:09:32,020 --> 01:09:34,310
Run! Run!
Oh my god, run! No, run!
746
01:09:36,900 --> 01:09:39,520
The moment you know about him,
he knows about you.
747
01:09:39,570 --> 01:09:42,110
Oh my god,
I'm so scared right now.
748
01:09:42,150 --> 01:09:45,030
Like there's no way
to summon him,
749
01:09:45,070 --> 01:09:48,490
but there's no way to get him to,
like, stop following you around.
750
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:54,500
I remember when I was like 13,
751
01:09:54,540 --> 01:09:57,000
one of my birthday parties,
we had this big plan
752
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,960
me and three of my friends
were all going to get together,
753
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,203
we were going to bring
our cameras
754
01:10:01,210 --> 01:10:02,550
and sneak out into the woods
755
01:10:02,590 --> 01:10:04,380
and try to find him
with our cameras.
756
01:10:04,430 --> 01:10:06,470
And I was out there
for like two hours.
757
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,300
If I encountered him...
758
01:10:10,470 --> 01:10:12,890
I would explain myself
and be like,
759
01:10:12,930 --> 01:10:14,220
"I don't think you're that bad.
760
01:10:14,270 --> 01:10:16,310
"Personally, I think
you're kind of cool.
761
01:10:16,350 --> 01:10:18,100
I wouldn't mind doing
what you're doing."
762
01:10:22,070 --> 01:10:24,650
Since I had
no social life back then,
763
01:10:24,700 --> 01:10:27,320
basically my whole life
was on the Internet.
764
01:10:27,370 --> 01:10:30,870
And since
it was there, like, 24/7...
765
01:10:32,580 --> 01:10:36,460
I would just gradually get
more and more attached to it.
766
01:10:36,500 --> 01:10:39,580
And the thing that kept coming
up would be Slenderman.
767
01:10:44,130 --> 01:10:47,840
Back then I believed, like every
fiber in my body, he was real.
768
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:58,230
All right, and the
game has started.
769
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:20,460
If everybody knows
that is Slenderman,
770
01:11:20,500 --> 01:11:24,420
then I think that's sufficient
to define it as a replicator.
771
01:11:28,430 --> 01:11:32,010
Genetic viruses spread
from body to body.
772
01:11:32,050 --> 01:11:35,720
And so... a meme that
has great spreadability...
773
01:11:35,770 --> 01:11:38,600
deserves to be called
a virus of the mind.
774
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:40,390
- Ooh! A note.
- No!
775
01:11:40,440 --> 01:11:42,353
No, I don't wanna get it.
No, you have to get it.
776
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:44,603
You have to get it. You have to.
You get it. Then he's gonna come.
777
01:11:44,610 --> 01:11:45,980
Get it.
Okay.
778
01:11:46,030 --> 01:11:48,490
Just keep walking. Just
keep walking. Why?
779
01:11:48,530 --> 01:11:49,990
Because he's finding you!
780
01:11:50,030 --> 01:11:52,200
A virus of the mind spreads
781
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:56,490
by being listened to or seen
by the sense organs.
782
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:01,620
When one brain picks it up,
783
01:12:01,670 --> 01:12:04,000
it will have a tendency
to pass it on to another brain
784
01:12:04,050 --> 01:12:07,090
and another brain and so on,
so it will spread exponentially.
785
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:19,060
And it's empirical fact
that this happens.
786
01:12:19,100 --> 01:12:21,310
The Slenderman case
is a very powerful example
787
01:12:21,350 --> 01:12:26,150
of peer-to-peer horizontal transmission.
It does happen.
788
01:12:41,500 --> 01:12:42,620
Meow, meow, kitty.
789
01:12:43,790 --> 01:12:46,130
That's right, come here.
790
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,170
Were you sleeping as usual?
Yes, you were.
791
01:12:54,260 --> 01:12:55,340
Stand up straight.
792
01:13:01,060 --> 01:13:05,270
I think you should wear
your badge from Webelos Camp...
793
01:13:05,310 --> 01:13:08,023
because there's only two people in
your whole pack that have that badge.
794
01:13:08,030 --> 01:13:11,740
Okay. All right. All
your pins are secure?
795
01:13:11,780 --> 01:13:15,450
Yes. You don't want to
be losing them. Right?
796
01:13:15,490 --> 01:13:17,990
Yeah.
Life is good.
797
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:19,700
You're all geared up, all right?
798
01:13:19,750 --> 01:13:22,450
Okay. Get ready to put that thing away.
All right?
799
01:13:22,500 --> 01:13:25,170
Okay. I don't want to
get any grief about,
800
01:13:25,210 --> 01:13:27,670
"Oh I just got to finish this
level," or whatever else.
801
01:13:27,710 --> 01:13:29,040
All right?
802
01:13:29,090 --> 01:13:30,420
Aiden?
803
01:13:31,470 --> 01:13:32,510
Yeah.
804
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:39,560
Yay?
805
01:13:40,810 --> 01:13:42,430
- Are you okay, Aiden?
- Yeah.
806
01:13:42,480 --> 01:13:44,730
You sound a little sniffley.
807
01:13:44,770 --> 01:13:48,230
This whole event, from start
to finish, has been a tragedy.
808
01:13:50,860 --> 01:13:53,490
But you have to be angry
at the situation.
809
01:13:53,530 --> 01:13:55,240
I'm angry at the situation...
810
01:13:56,870 --> 01:13:59,200
and my daughter
is not the one...
811
01:14:00,330 --> 01:14:01,700
that spent upwards of seven days
812
01:14:01,750 --> 01:14:04,330
in the hospital
recovering from this.
813
01:14:04,370 --> 01:14:06,040
And I'm angry
about the situation.
814
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,500
So, if I'm angry about it...
815
01:14:08,540 --> 01:14:12,380
you know, this other family sure as
hell has a right to be angry about it.
816
01:14:14,010 --> 01:14:15,300
You know, they could...
817
01:14:19,050 --> 01:14:21,970
you know, slam the door
in my face, or, you know,
818
01:14:22,020 --> 01:14:24,980
punch me in the face and knock
me on my ass and you know...
819
01:14:26,150 --> 01:14:28,980
they would probably
be justified in doing so.
820
01:14:30,650 --> 01:14:32,900
I'm sure they have a lot
of the same questions I do.
821
01:14:35,530 --> 01:14:40,620
Did you come to any conclusions about
Anissa, as far as a diagnosis?
822
01:14:42,290 --> 01:14:44,950
The predisposing
characteristics that...
823
01:14:45,000 --> 01:14:48,330
made her susceptible
to the delusional disorder...
824
01:14:49,540 --> 01:14:52,590
is what's referred
to as a schizotypy.
825
01:14:52,630 --> 01:14:55,380
It's a diminished ability
to determine
826
01:14:55,420 --> 01:14:57,260
what's real and what's not real.
827
01:14:57,300 --> 01:15:00,510
A lot of people have
varying degrees of this.
828
01:15:00,550 --> 01:15:04,930
Adults may have, simply, eccentric
religious or spiritual beliefs
829
01:15:04,980 --> 01:15:08,100
or... conspiratorial beliefs
or things like that
830
01:15:08,150 --> 01:15:10,650
and live out their life
with no problems at all.
831
01:15:11,820 --> 01:15:13,440
I've done quite a
bit of research
832
01:15:13,480 --> 01:15:16,740
on the early stages
of psychopathic personality
833
01:15:16,780 --> 01:15:19,150
in adolescents
over the last 20 years.
834
01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:22,280
Based on your experiences
and testing of Anissa,
835
01:15:22,330 --> 01:15:24,870
she does not carry
that particular diagnosis.
836
01:15:24,910 --> 01:15:26,330
No. She doesn't have...
837
01:15:26,370 --> 01:15:29,290
she has, really, no
characteristics of a psychopath
838
01:15:29,330 --> 01:15:31,790
or a sociopath or
anything like that. Okay.
839
01:15:40,390 --> 01:15:43,680
Morgan and Anissa came out
of the bathroom.
840
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:50,600
Payton said that she didn't
want to play hide and seek,
841
01:15:50,650 --> 01:15:52,400
but Morgan said
that the next game
842
01:15:52,440 --> 01:15:54,860
that they played
could be her choice.
843
01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:08,450
Payton said that...
844
01:16:08,500 --> 01:16:12,580
Anissa pulled her deeper
and deeper into the woods.
845
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:39,440
And then...
846
01:16:50,790 --> 01:16:51,910
Anissa says, "Now!"
847
01:16:54,250 --> 01:16:56,420
And Anissa turns her back.
848
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:10,140
Morgan got on top
of Payton's legs.
849
01:17:10,180 --> 01:17:15,350
She sat on her legs, and then she
got her face real close to Payton
850
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:19,570
and whispered in her ear,
"I'm so sorry."
851
01:17:22,150 --> 01:17:24,070
And then started stabbing her.
852
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:06,660
What, ultimately,
was Morgan diagnosed with?
853
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:13,620
The final diagnosis,
both in the psychological report
854
01:18:13,660 --> 01:18:17,330
and in my report
are schizophrenia,
855
01:18:17,380 --> 01:18:21,130
unspecified, 295.90...
856
01:18:23,300 --> 01:18:27,680
oppositional
defiant disorder, 313.81...
857
01:18:28,970 --> 01:18:33,520
and bronchial asthma,
mild, intermittent, J45.2.
858
01:18:46,820 --> 01:18:48,410
What is schizophrenia?
859
01:18:50,240 --> 01:18:53,790
Schizophrenia is
one of the most serious
860
01:18:53,830 --> 01:18:56,290
and one of the most studied
861
01:18:56,330 --> 01:18:59,750
mental illnesses
of human beings.
862
01:18:59,790 --> 01:19:04,090
Approximately 1% of the population
succumbs to schizophrenia.
863
01:19:06,010 --> 01:19:08,050
It is a psychotic illness.
864
01:19:08,090 --> 01:19:12,350
It's through a combination
of genetic predisposition
865
01:19:12,390 --> 01:19:15,470
and then stress
placed on the person
866
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:17,930
to begin manifesting symptoms.
867
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:29,530
Patients lose track of reality
in a number of ways.
868
01:19:29,570 --> 01:19:31,570
One would be hallucinations.
869
01:19:31,620 --> 01:19:34,660
One could hear voices,
one could see visions,
870
01:19:34,700 --> 01:19:36,870
one could feel
things crawling on them.
871
01:19:38,460 --> 01:19:40,210
Delusions, on the other hand,
872
01:19:40,250 --> 01:19:42,170
don't have to do
with sensing something,
873
01:19:42,210 --> 01:19:43,790
they have to do with a thought.
874
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:48,170
So, for example, believing that
Slenderman is real is a delusion.
875
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:52,840
Saying that you saw Slenderman
is a visual hallucination.
876
01:19:57,020 --> 01:19:59,480
Is the pile getting bigger?
877
01:20:02,270 --> 01:20:04,440
Ha!
878
01:20:08,610 --> 01:20:09,820
Jumping in the leaves.
879
01:20:09,860 --> 01:20:12,410
And that's one of my favorites.
880
01:20:12,450 --> 01:20:15,780
I raked up a bunch of leaves
in the back yard and...
881
01:20:15,830 --> 01:20:18,580
she came flying in.
Nice action shot.
882
01:20:21,580 --> 01:20:23,330
Yeah, it's hard
for us to imagine
883
01:20:23,380 --> 01:20:24,630
that she was having problems.
884
01:20:26,340 --> 01:20:27,750
It's hard to process.
885
01:20:29,590 --> 01:20:32,090
None of us...
saw this coming.
886
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:38,720
Morgan recalls having
887
01:20:38,770 --> 01:20:41,140
hallucinations
as early as three.
888
01:20:41,190 --> 01:20:43,810
She remembers...
889
01:20:43,860 --> 01:20:47,610
seeing ghosts at night,
as young as three,
890
01:20:47,650 --> 01:20:50,150
that would bite her
and pull her hair.
891
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:52,530
But from what I understand,
892
01:20:52,570 --> 01:20:56,580
for the most part
they were friendly, too.
893
01:20:56,620 --> 01:21:01,620
She even said that she... she
tried to tell us about it once,
894
01:21:01,670 --> 01:21:04,170
and that we just told her
to go back to bed,
895
01:21:04,210 --> 01:21:06,630
but I don't have
any recollection of that.
896
01:21:08,460 --> 01:21:11,300
And really,
how often do your children
897
01:21:11,340 --> 01:21:14,300
tell you at bedtime that
they're seeing something
898
01:21:14,340 --> 01:21:15,843
or hearing something
when they're that age?
899
01:21:15,850 --> 01:21:19,560
"A monster's in my closet,"
or "something's under my bed,"
900
01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:22,140
you know, just because
they don't want to go to bed.
901
01:21:23,650 --> 01:21:25,230
It's hard
because I haven't been able
902
01:21:25,270 --> 01:21:28,230
to discuss these things
with Morgan,
903
01:21:28,280 --> 01:21:31,110
because she's
been incarcerated...
904
01:21:31,150 --> 01:21:35,280
for the entire time
that I've... I've known...
905
01:21:35,320 --> 01:21:37,410
that she's... that she's
had these symptoms.
906
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:43,460
She expressed the ability
to see and hear things
907
01:21:43,500 --> 01:21:46,750
that other people are
not able to hear or see.
908
01:21:46,790 --> 01:21:48,670
Things like unicorns.
909
01:21:48,710 --> 01:21:51,380
She at one point digressed
910
01:21:51,420 --> 01:21:53,170
into fairly rambling discussion
911
01:21:53,220 --> 01:21:55,680
about a student in her class
being a pegasus.
912
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:58,010
When I saw her last week,
a few days before,
913
01:21:58,060 --> 01:22:00,470
Snape had come to visit her
and kept her up
914
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:02,930
until 3:00 in the morning,
by Morgan's report.
915
01:22:02,980 --> 01:22:04,850
Snape?
Snape.
916
01:22:04,900 --> 01:22:07,560
- Who is that?
- A "Harry Potter" character.
917
01:22:07,610 --> 01:22:10,270
She also will say not just
that she's heard things,
918
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:12,030
but that since
as early as three,
919
01:22:12,070 --> 01:22:15,570
she's had some
sensory-perceptual distortions.
920
01:22:15,610 --> 01:22:19,570
She might see a person
change slightly or see colors.
921
01:22:19,620 --> 01:22:22,540
She doesn't...
have much concern
922
01:22:22,580 --> 01:22:24,910
about whether she gets
a long prison sentence,
923
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:29,500
because, wherever she is,
she will use Vulcan mind control
924
01:22:29,540 --> 01:22:33,710
to make herself feel, to make
herself believe whatever she likes.
925
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:37,180
And so, even under
very stressful circumstances,
926
01:22:37,220 --> 01:22:39,640
she doesn't feel
the stress because of this...
927
01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:42,510
what she described
to be Vulcan mind control.
928
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:44,520
How about her... her cell?
929
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:47,480
I would consider
her cell disorganized.
930
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:51,730
She has papers scattered
about the floor.
931
01:22:51,780 --> 01:22:54,030
Have you ever suggested
picking them up?
932
01:22:54,070 --> 01:22:59,610
Yes, I have. And she stated
that she liked the papers there
933
01:22:59,660 --> 01:23:02,870
because they made it feel
less empty.
934
01:23:02,910 --> 01:23:05,160
- And she is in the room alone?
- Correct.
935
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:07,830
She said, "Seeing my friends",
936
01:23:07,870 --> 01:23:09,580
"none of these things
are dangerous.
937
01:23:09,630 --> 01:23:12,540
These friends can't disappear.
They're important to me."
938
01:23:12,590 --> 01:23:15,630
Was she referring to real world
friends or fictional friends?
939
01:23:15,670 --> 01:23:17,170
Fictional, I believe.
940
01:23:17,220 --> 01:23:20,510
She's not allowed
to hug her family or touch them?
941
01:23:20,550 --> 01:23:24,220
- Not in our facility.
- Right.
942
01:23:24,270 --> 01:23:27,730
She made clear
that her primary concern
943
01:23:27,770 --> 01:23:30,650
was with her relationship
with Slenderman,
944
01:23:30,690 --> 01:23:34,230
and she felt like
if she says the wrong thing,
945
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:36,650
if she somehow
upsets Slenderman,
946
01:23:36,700 --> 01:23:40,700
not only hers but her family's
lives could be in danger.
947
01:23:42,870 --> 01:23:45,240
With childhood schizophrenia,
948
01:23:45,290 --> 01:23:48,120
almost everyone
develops, eventually,
949
01:23:48,170 --> 01:23:51,250
negative symptoms
and cognitive symptoms.
950
01:23:52,420 --> 01:23:55,960
What's unique
about Morgan's circumstance
951
01:23:56,010 --> 01:23:59,010
is that a severe course
is so predictable.
952
01:24:14,480 --> 01:24:19,820
Well, we knew her diagnosis before we
went to meet them at the hospital.
953
01:24:19,860 --> 01:24:23,530
We had a conference call
with two of the doctors,
954
01:24:23,580 --> 01:24:25,330
so we were...
we were prepared.
955
01:24:25,370 --> 01:24:28,410
And the reason that
we all went up there, actually,
956
01:24:28,460 --> 01:24:30,870
was so that we could tell Morgan
957
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:33,000
what her diagnosis was.
958
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:36,500
And we thought that it would
be helpful for her to know
959
01:24:36,550 --> 01:24:38,710
that her father also...
960
01:24:39,760 --> 01:24:41,880
had the same mental illness,
961
01:24:41,930 --> 01:24:45,890
because we had never told her
previously that Matt had schizophrenia.
962
01:24:47,470 --> 01:24:50,230
We were very worried about
the way that she might react
963
01:24:50,270 --> 01:24:53,350
to learning that
she has schizophrenia
964
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:55,810
because Morgan...
Morgan's a very smart girl,
965
01:24:55,860 --> 01:24:58,530
and she's been reading... Which
makes me think that she knew.
966
01:24:58,570 --> 01:25:02,610
Yeah. I think when they told
her, she was probably like...
967
01:25:02,660 --> 01:25:04,941
Not surprised..."Well, that's
what I would've guessed...
968
01:25:05,700 --> 01:25:08,080
if I had
to diagnose myself."
969
01:25:10,370 --> 01:25:12,660
What I think is
that Morgan knows
970
01:25:12,710 --> 01:25:15,920
that other people
don't see her hallucinations,
971
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:18,250
but they're still
very real to her.
972
01:25:18,300 --> 01:25:20,130
Like, in her head they are real,
973
01:25:20,170 --> 01:25:22,050
and they're there with her.
974
01:25:22,090 --> 01:25:24,180
They're there. But I
think that she knows
975
01:25:24,220 --> 01:25:26,260
that other people
don't see them.
976
01:25:26,300 --> 01:25:29,350
Otherwise, why would
she make an attempt to...
977
01:25:29,390 --> 01:25:31,770
- Cover it up. Mm-hmm.
- ...hide them from us, exactly.
978
01:25:31,810 --> 01:25:33,263
It's because
she doesn't want to lose them.
979
01:25:33,270 --> 01:25:35,100
She's afraid they would
be taken from her.
980
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:43,700
This is the doll house,
981
01:25:43,740 --> 01:25:45,990
or the components
for a doll house,
982
01:25:46,030 --> 01:25:48,200
that Morgan made
while she was housed
983
01:25:48,240 --> 01:25:51,080
at Washington County
Juvenile Detention Center.
984
01:25:52,620 --> 01:25:55,290
And she just put so much...
985
01:25:56,250 --> 01:25:59,040
detail into it, it's amazing.
986
01:25:59,090 --> 01:26:01,800
She's not allowed
to have scissors,
987
01:26:01,840 --> 01:26:04,050
so all of these...
988
01:26:04,090 --> 01:26:09,220
all of these tiny little
pieces she ripped by hand.
989
01:26:09,260 --> 01:26:10,850
This is a television,
and these are
990
01:26:10,890 --> 01:26:14,730
some of her little cartoon
characters that she likes to draw.
991
01:26:14,770 --> 01:26:17,350
This actually, I think,
is a character
992
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:19,400
that's modeled after Spock.
993
01:26:19,440 --> 01:26:22,400
When I watched her
do a couple of the dolls
994
01:26:22,440 --> 01:26:25,900
and the...
and the clothing,
995
01:26:25,950 --> 01:26:29,700
and she said what was surprising is
how few times she had to start over.
996
01:26:29,740 --> 01:26:33,660
Like, she was able to just be
meticulous about... Here's some food.
997
01:26:33,710 --> 01:26:36,920
I think this is salad and a piece of pizza.
A salad and a piece of pizza.
998
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:40,590
Here's a little laptop computer.
999
01:26:40,630 --> 01:26:43,210
See there's even
detail on the screen.
1000
01:26:46,090 --> 01:26:49,180
Look at the cute little heart
on the front of the computer.
1001
01:26:50,260 --> 01:26:52,060
This looks like it's another TV.
1002
01:26:52,100 --> 01:26:55,350
Oh, and there's...
how appropriate.
1003
01:26:55,390 --> 01:26:58,520
There's a courtroom drama
playing in the background.
1004
01:27:00,150 --> 01:27:03,940
When I ask her what she wants
to watch on TV that night...
1005
01:27:03,990 --> 01:27:07,110
it's one of the things I usually ask
her when I talk to her on the phone...
1006
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:11,530
she'll say that it depends
on whose turn it is to decide.
1007
01:27:11,580 --> 01:27:13,870
And she's in a cell by herself,
1008
01:27:13,910 --> 01:27:17,000
so she's the only person there.
1009
01:27:40,610 --> 01:27:44,690
I do a lot of stuff with
running numbers in my head.
1010
01:27:47,740 --> 01:27:49,030
I do...
1011
01:27:51,780 --> 01:27:57,200
I try to put up static,
almost, is how I describe it.
1012
01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:02,170
I wish that I could talk
to her about...
1013
01:28:02,210 --> 01:28:06,250
like, I have... right now,
there's like patterns
1014
01:28:06,300 --> 01:28:11,680
of light and geometric shapes
1015
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:13,470
that's, like, always racing.
1016
01:28:14,510 --> 01:28:16,220
Like always, like right now.
1017
01:28:16,270 --> 01:28:20,230
Pshew, pshew, pshew,
pshew, pshew, pshew.
1018
01:28:20,270 --> 01:28:23,060
I always wanted to know
if she sees that stuff, too.
1019
01:28:25,070 --> 01:28:29,280
Everything seems normal to me,
because it's... it's my everything.
1020
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:31,610
This is how
I've always seen things.
1021
01:28:33,580 --> 01:28:35,830
So, it doesn't seem weird
to me that like,
1022
01:28:35,870 --> 01:28:37,790
"Oh that's not how
you see street lights?"
1023
01:28:37,830 --> 01:28:41,040
or "Oh, that's weird."
1024
01:28:41,080 --> 01:28:43,920
I don't know if that was everyone that
had like a weird little visual...
1025
01:28:45,170 --> 01:28:46,290
thing going on...
1026
01:28:46,340 --> 01:28:49,800
like the glaring demon, devil.
1027
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:53,930
Like that you're like, "Okay,
this is clearly not real."
1028
01:28:53,970 --> 01:28:56,140
But it doesn't matter.
Like, I've had where...
1029
01:28:57,930 --> 01:28:59,100
like you...
1030
01:29:00,810 --> 01:29:05,810
you can see it
and you know it's not real...
1031
01:29:05,860 --> 01:29:08,313
but it totally doesn't matter, because
you're still terrified of it.
1032
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:10,490
Like, I know that there's...
1033
01:29:11,820 --> 01:29:14,700
I know the devil's
not in the backseat,
1034
01:29:14,740 --> 01:29:18,620
but the devil is in the backseat.
You know?
1035
01:29:23,500 --> 01:29:25,170
Yeah, sometimes
you know it's not real,
1036
01:29:25,210 --> 01:29:29,300
but it still smells, tastes,
and looks real, so it's real.
1037
01:29:38,390 --> 01:29:40,180
Could you just describe,
in general terms,
1038
01:29:40,230 --> 01:29:42,730
what you found in the bedroom
when you went through it?
1039
01:29:42,770 --> 01:29:48,440
There were...
numerous... notebooks
1040
01:29:48,480 --> 01:29:52,860
and pieces of paper
with drawings
1041
01:29:52,900 --> 01:29:58,200
and writings pertaining
to the Slenderman character.
1042
01:30:38,530 --> 01:30:40,370
Where was
all this stuff located?
1043
01:30:42,620 --> 01:30:44,370
All in Morgan's bedroom.
1044
01:30:51,380 --> 01:30:55,010
When you ask Morgan...
1045
01:30:55,050 --> 01:30:57,550
"What if Slenderman
doesn't exist?"
1046
01:30:58,470 --> 01:31:00,010
She can't tolerate that.
1047
01:31:00,050 --> 01:31:01,640
She becomes
somewhat oppositional,
1048
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:03,890
and says she knows it's true,
1049
01:31:03,930 --> 01:31:07,190
and it can't be proven
untrue, so it's true.
1050
01:31:07,230 --> 01:31:08,310
Did Morgan use the words
1051
01:31:08,350 --> 01:31:10,060
"It had to be done?"
Yes.
1052
01:31:10,110 --> 01:31:12,400
Did you tell her to say that?
I did not.
1053
01:31:12,440 --> 01:31:14,730
She's volunteering this to you?
Correct.
1054
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:18,150
That seems like
an unusual thing to say.
1055
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:21,120
It does. Did you ask her
what she meant by that?
1056
01:31:21,160 --> 01:31:25,240
I did. And did you have to
ask her multiple times?
1057
01:31:25,290 --> 01:31:26,580
I did.
1058
01:31:26,620 --> 01:31:28,710
Okay, after you asked her
multiple times
1059
01:31:28,750 --> 01:31:31,670
what she meant
by "It had to be done,"
1060
01:31:31,710 --> 01:31:33,880
what did she offer you
or what did she say?
1061
01:31:33,920 --> 01:31:35,800
She told me
that the man ordered it.
1062
01:31:41,550 --> 01:31:42,550
Yes, I did.
1063
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:44,810
She held up three fingers.
1064
01:31:44,850 --> 01:31:47,350
Like three?
Three.
1065
01:31:47,390 --> 01:31:50,520
What did that... did you try to
understand what that meant?
1066
01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:52,730
I asked her if that meant
three years ago,
1067
01:31:52,770 --> 01:31:55,940
and she said,
"No, at age three."
1068
01:31:55,990 --> 01:31:59,860
She believed that
she communicated telepathically
1069
01:31:59,910 --> 01:32:03,120
with Slenderman, and that...
1070
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:06,540
once the communication began,
that she had to do
1071
01:32:06,580 --> 01:32:09,290
what it was
that Slenderman demanded.
1072
01:32:09,330 --> 01:32:11,210
And if she didn't do
what was demanded,
1073
01:32:11,250 --> 01:32:12,880
her family wouldn't be safe?
1074
01:32:12,920 --> 01:32:15,460
She wouldn't be safe,
her family wouldn't be safe.
1075
01:32:15,510 --> 01:32:18,130
Dr. Robbins,
was Morgan's entry
1076
01:32:18,170 --> 01:32:22,340
into this particular crime
because of her psychosis?
1077
01:32:26,220 --> 01:32:27,520
I believe so.
1078
01:32:33,480 --> 01:32:36,690
It bears saying
that schizophrenia,
1079
01:32:36,730 --> 01:32:41,320
in and of itself,
is not a dangerous illness.
1080
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:44,280
There are many 35-year-olds
who have schizophrenia
1081
01:32:44,330 --> 01:32:47,120
who don't have
to be incarcerated,
1082
01:32:47,160 --> 01:32:49,950
who can be managed
in a community.
1083
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:53,460
However, there's
a second part to that.
1084
01:32:53,500 --> 01:32:59,090
When your delusion...
when your fixed delusion
1085
01:32:59,130 --> 01:33:01,050
tells you to kill people...
1086
01:33:02,590 --> 01:33:05,010
and when your...
1087
01:33:05,050 --> 01:33:09,060
insight doesn't allow you
to seek treatment,
1088
01:33:10,230 --> 01:33:12,850
then schizophrenia
becomes dangerous.
1089
01:33:12,900 --> 01:33:15,270
It is a dangerous
illness untreated...
1090
01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:18,770
and hence...
we're here.
1091
01:33:24,450 --> 01:33:27,780
You are just so lost
in your illness
1092
01:33:27,830 --> 01:33:31,080
that no one knew about...
1093
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:34,330
and then for people just to hate
her like that, just hate you...
1094
01:33:34,380 --> 01:33:36,500
"I hate that little girl.
I hope she burns."
1095
01:33:36,540 --> 01:33:40,130
Like, having people
call my house and tell me,
1096
01:33:40,170 --> 01:33:43,220
"You're going to burn in hell
and so is your daughter."
1097
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:47,720
People don't understand that...
1098
01:33:48,640 --> 01:33:51,100
she loves Bella.
1099
01:33:51,140 --> 01:33:53,430
We love Bella...
1100
01:33:54,980 --> 01:33:59,110
so much, and she still talks
about her like they're friends.
1101
01:34:03,240 --> 01:34:07,910
Oh my god. She loves
her like I love her.
1102
01:34:10,330 --> 01:34:14,620
And like, for people to talk about
her the way they do, it's like...
1103
01:34:14,670 --> 01:34:17,960
Morgan loved Bella.
She's... like, how sick are you
1104
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:20,290
that you would do that
to your best friend?
1105
01:34:20,340 --> 01:34:22,920
Because you're afraid
of something happening,
1106
01:34:22,970 --> 01:34:25,800
or because you want
something happen.
1107
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:28,640
You want to become something...
1108
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:32,140
because your illness dictated that
this is something you need to be.
1109
01:34:33,350 --> 01:34:35,140
Just blows me away...
1110
01:34:36,480 --> 01:34:39,520
that people are like that.
It just makes me sad.
1111
01:34:39,570 --> 01:34:41,360
I wish people knew.
1112
01:36:42,440 --> 01:36:46,570
The regular ones are just the regular
cat treats that you're used to.
1113
01:36:46,610 --> 01:36:48,860
Just to say,
"I love you, kitty."
1114
01:36:48,900 --> 01:36:51,990
Cat Snacks are only 2.99
at your local grocery store.
1115
01:37:01,290 --> 01:37:02,290
Thank you.
1116
01:37:03,830 --> 01:37:06,630
Detective, did you have a chance
to watch that compilation?
1117
01:37:07,670 --> 01:37:09,260
I saw the compilation.
1118
01:37:09,300 --> 01:37:11,720
And would you agree
that that's you present
1119
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:13,470
in that room with Morgan Geyser?
1120
01:37:14,350 --> 01:37:15,680
Those were...
1121
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:17,640
pieces of the interview
1122
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:20,680
that was me and Morgan together.
1123
01:37:20,730 --> 01:37:23,100
Did you tell Morgan she could
have parents available
1124
01:37:23,150 --> 01:37:25,310
to talk to before
you interrogated her?
1125
01:37:25,360 --> 01:37:27,940
I did not tell her that,
because that wasn't an option.
1126
01:37:27,980 --> 01:37:30,030
You weren't going to let
her parents be present?
1127
01:37:30,070 --> 01:37:32,820
Correct. Or let her even have
a phone call to talk to them?
1128
01:37:34,320 --> 01:37:37,370
Um, we did not offer her
a phone call.
1129
01:37:39,580 --> 01:37:42,370
At some point were you
provided with Anissa's phone?
1130
01:37:42,420 --> 01:37:44,580
Yes, I was. Did you
have a chance to look
1131
01:37:44,630 --> 01:37:47,630
at any of the... messages
on that phone?
1132
01:37:47,670 --> 01:37:49,170
Yes, I did.
1133
01:37:49,210 --> 01:37:51,670
It says, "This is my final
wish to those who care..."
1134
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:33,010
Mm-hmm.
1135
01:39:01,540 --> 01:39:03,330
Where did you locate
the suspects?
1136
01:39:03,370 --> 01:39:07,160
They were located right
by I-94 in Waukesha County.
1137
01:39:07,210 --> 01:39:09,500
Did you notice anything
1138
01:39:09,540 --> 01:39:11,670
about Anissa's emotional state
1139
01:39:11,710 --> 01:39:12,960
when you had contact with her?
1140
01:39:14,300 --> 01:39:16,090
She said she was scared,
1141
01:39:16,130 --> 01:39:18,430
and I asked what was
she scared of?
1142
01:39:18,470 --> 01:39:20,340
And do you recall
what she said to you?
1143
01:39:20,390 --> 01:39:23,310
She made mention
that if she told me,
1144
01:39:23,350 --> 01:39:24,930
I would think
that she was crazy,
1145
01:39:24,980 --> 01:39:27,730
and I told her that I didn't
think anybody was crazy.
1146
01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:31,310
Okay.
1147
01:40:47,350 --> 01:40:48,763
Can you ask the question
again please?
1148
01:40:48,770 --> 01:40:50,730
One of the first communications
1149
01:40:50,770 --> 01:40:52,940
before any
of the search requests
1150
01:40:52,980 --> 01:40:54,610
was found on Anissa's phone
1151
01:40:54,650 --> 01:40:56,183
that was provided
by her parents, correct?
1152
01:40:56,190 --> 01:40:58,570
Correct. It was basically
a goodbye letter.
1153
01:40:59,740 --> 01:41:00,990
Correct?
Yes.
1154
01:41:02,280 --> 01:41:04,280
And basically indicated that
1155
01:41:04,330 --> 01:41:06,330
people should remember
who she was,
1156
01:41:06,370 --> 01:41:08,790
not grieve for her...
1157
01:41:08,830 --> 01:41:10,540
and that she
wouldn't do them harm.
1158
01:41:10,580 --> 01:41:12,960
- Correct.
- Nothing further, Your Honor.
1159
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:26,680
Aiden? Wrap it up, chief.
we got places to go.
1160
01:41:26,720 --> 01:41:30,180
All right? We have
to run over to the school
1161
01:41:30,230 --> 01:41:34,060
for a mandatory meeting
about iPads...
1162
01:41:34,100 --> 01:41:35,730
setting up their iPad...
1163
01:41:36,650 --> 01:41:38,730
and using their iPad, and...
1164
01:41:40,650 --> 01:41:42,190
the disadvantages they'll be at
1165
01:41:42,240 --> 01:41:44,530
if they're not allowed
to use their iPad.
1166
01:41:45,780 --> 01:41:47,950
You know?
1167
01:41:47,990 --> 01:41:51,500
I don't think anybody can
really, you know, begrudge me
1168
01:41:51,540 --> 01:41:53,120
for thinking
the way I do about...
1169
01:41:54,540 --> 01:41:56,290
a bunch of fifth graders
getting iPads.
1170
01:41:56,340 --> 01:41:58,750
You know, based on what this
family has been through.
1171
01:41:58,800 --> 01:42:00,460
At the same token...
1172
01:42:04,050 --> 01:42:06,470
you know, I don't want
to hinder his learning.
1173
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:13,810
I guess I just need to...
1174
01:42:13,850 --> 01:42:15,640
get over my own
reservations about it.
1175
01:42:17,310 --> 01:42:18,650
And about the iPads.
1176
01:42:20,860 --> 01:42:22,650
If I'd had my way,
he wouldn't have one.
1177
01:42:25,740 --> 01:42:28,780
You have a child that is...
1178
01:42:31,160 --> 01:42:34,750
incarcerated, for lack
of a better term...
1179
01:42:34,790 --> 01:42:36,460
but your other life
still has to go on,
1180
01:42:36,500 --> 01:42:39,330
so you still have to be able
to support your other children
1181
01:42:39,380 --> 01:42:42,210
with the activities
that they're in, and...
1182
01:42:42,260 --> 01:42:44,840
you do your best
to support your children
1183
01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:46,470
that you can't have access to...
1184
01:42:48,050 --> 01:42:51,140
and have to explain
to Anissa that,
1185
01:42:51,180 --> 01:42:53,520
"Well, I might not be able
to come up on Tuesday,
1186
01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:55,680
"because Aiden has
a pack meeting.
1187
01:42:55,730 --> 01:42:57,190
I have to be there
for that."
1188
01:42:59,020 --> 01:43:03,070
I've had conversations with...
my oldest son.
1189
01:43:03,110 --> 01:43:06,360
I was out in the backyard. He comes
outside, he says to me, "What's wrong?"
1190
01:43:38,100 --> 01:43:39,600
That's when I told him...
1191
01:43:39,650 --> 01:43:41,480
it's just stressful as hell...
1192
01:43:44,490 --> 01:43:49,200
trying to keep everything as
balanced as it can possibly be.
1193
01:43:52,450 --> 01:43:54,830
You never get a day off...
1194
01:43:59,210 --> 01:44:00,580
and it wears on you.
1195
01:44:05,010 --> 01:44:06,710
It just really wears
the shit outta ya.
1196
01:44:09,340 --> 01:44:13,550
Because you have
to do so much more...
1197
01:44:16,430 --> 01:44:18,520
to try to keep everybody
1198
01:44:18,560 --> 01:44:21,600
in a positive place,
including yourself.
1199
01:44:28,030 --> 01:44:29,070
It's...
1200
01:44:30,570 --> 01:44:31,950
It's mentally...
1201
01:44:33,370 --> 01:44:37,700
and emotionally
and physically just draining.
1202
01:44:55,890 --> 01:44:57,930
I knew it was always a risk,
1203
01:44:57,980 --> 01:45:01,520
simply because of... genetics
1204
01:45:01,560 --> 01:45:04,730
that one of our children
might develop schizophrenia.
1205
01:45:06,780 --> 01:45:08,940
I never thought something
like this would happen.
1206
01:45:11,070 --> 01:45:12,450
Matt is so...
1207
01:45:14,280 --> 01:45:18,080
He's so high functioning
and he's so... stable.
1208
01:45:19,750 --> 01:45:23,040
I just know that he's
developed an awareness
1209
01:45:23,080 --> 01:45:25,130
of what's real and what's not.
1210
01:45:26,920 --> 01:45:29,210
And I think, for Morgan,
1211
01:45:29,260 --> 01:45:31,010
those lines are
still pretty blurry...
1212
01:45:33,800 --> 01:45:35,590
but it's all
still very real to her.
1213
01:45:38,720 --> 01:45:43,140
In general, Morgan's just
becoming more and more lost
1214
01:45:43,190 --> 01:45:45,600
and involved in this world
1215
01:45:45,650 --> 01:45:48,320
of imaginary friends
that she has.
1216
01:45:50,740 --> 01:45:54,950
The best possible situation would be
that she ends up in an environment
1217
01:45:54,990 --> 01:45:57,200
where she can receive treatment
for her schizophrenia,
1218
01:45:57,240 --> 01:46:00,080
and that would be
a psychiatric facility.
1219
01:46:00,120 --> 01:46:02,750
Not prison.
She can't go to prison.
1220
01:46:06,840 --> 01:46:09,840
I think it's kind of
cruel of the courts...
1221
01:46:11,420 --> 01:46:14,630
to have a law where
you can take two girls
1222
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:17,010
who are not
troublemakers prior...
1223
01:46:19,220 --> 01:46:22,100
And they did not try
to hide what they did.
1224
01:46:22,140 --> 01:46:24,640
They did not lie
about what they did.
1225
01:46:24,690 --> 01:46:26,560
They were very truthful for it.
1226
01:46:26,610 --> 01:46:29,900
And it's like they're being
punished extra because of it.
1227
01:46:33,070 --> 01:46:35,740
Well, let's hope the judge
is gonna have some good news.
1228
01:46:37,070 --> 01:46:39,410
Some very good news.
1229
01:46:39,450 --> 01:46:42,240
The two young girls accused
of stabbing their classmate
1230
01:46:42,290 --> 01:46:43,700
are back in court.
1231
01:46:43,750 --> 01:46:45,500
WISN 12 news' Hillary Mintz
1232
01:46:45,540 --> 01:46:47,580
is live in Waukesha County
with the very latest.
1233
01:46:47,630 --> 01:46:49,080
Hillary.
Well, Melinda,
1234
01:46:49,130 --> 01:46:51,590
for pretty much the past year
since the stabbing happened,
1235
01:46:51,630 --> 01:46:54,010
a judge here
at the county courthouse
1236
01:46:54,050 --> 01:46:56,300
has been trying to figure out
"Should Morgan Geyser
1237
01:46:56,340 --> 01:46:59,300
and Anissa Weier be tried
as adults or juveniles?"
1238
01:46:59,350 --> 01:47:01,640
That decision is expected
to come today,
1239
01:47:01,680 --> 01:47:05,180
and the stakes in that
decision are extremely high.
1240
01:47:08,060 --> 01:47:10,270
The victim,
13-year-old Payton Leutner,
1241
01:47:10,320 --> 01:47:11,820
has physically recovered,
1242
01:47:11,860 --> 01:47:13,690
but they say
she is still dealing
1243
01:47:13,740 --> 01:47:15,690
with the emotional damage.
1244
01:47:37,090 --> 01:47:40,090
The court's prepared
to proceed with the ruling.
1245
01:47:46,560 --> 01:47:49,640
The court easily finds
that this is a violent,
1246
01:47:49,690 --> 01:47:52,190
premeditated, personal offense.
1247
01:47:52,230 --> 01:47:54,190
There was
a conscious decision made
1248
01:47:54,230 --> 01:47:56,650
at the time of the offense
to let the victim die.
1249
01:47:58,280 --> 01:48:01,240
They told P.L. that they
would leave to get her help.
1250
01:48:01,280 --> 01:48:03,450
They did leave...
1251
01:48:03,490 --> 01:48:06,700
and they left, walking
to the Nicolet National Forest
1252
01:48:06,750 --> 01:48:08,330
to locate the Slenderman Mansion
1253
01:48:08,370 --> 01:48:10,080
and then meet up
with Slenderman.
1254
01:48:11,750 --> 01:48:14,170
This is charged
as an attempted murder,
1255
01:48:14,210 --> 01:48:16,590
but you have to keep in
mind for both defendants
1256
01:48:16,630 --> 01:48:19,930
that this was in fact... this
was an effort to kill someone,
1257
01:48:19,970 --> 01:48:22,090
not a mistake
by hitting them too hard,
1258
01:48:22,140 --> 01:48:24,640
not a mistake by
pushing them too hard.
1259
01:48:26,100 --> 01:48:27,560
The issue of brain development
1260
01:48:27,600 --> 01:48:29,940
is important
for the court to consider.
1261
01:48:29,980 --> 01:48:32,400
They were young
when the offense occurred,
1262
01:48:32,440 --> 01:48:34,610
but they get older
every day, frankly.
1263
01:48:34,650 --> 01:48:36,150
They're a year older today.
1264
01:48:38,610 --> 01:48:41,150
But what happens at age 18?
And in this court's view,
1265
01:48:41,200 --> 01:48:44,700
that's a critical factor
for the court to evaluate.
1266
01:48:45,910 --> 01:48:47,910
There would be
no oversight, no control,
1267
01:48:47,960 --> 01:48:51,830
no ways to ensure public safety.
1268
01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:54,170
They've committed
an offense that is serious.
1269
01:48:54,210 --> 01:48:56,000
It's... it's, frankly, vicious.
1270
01:48:56,050 --> 01:48:59,170
There has to be assurance that
that doesn't happen again,
1271
01:48:59,220 --> 01:49:01,050
that a serious offense
1272
01:49:01,090 --> 01:49:03,760
is dealt with on a serious basis
1273
01:49:03,800 --> 01:49:05,800
that offers protections
to everyone.
1274
01:49:05,850 --> 01:49:09,020
On that basis then,
I'll order that the defendants,
1275
01:49:09,060 --> 01:49:10,730
Ms. Geyser and Ms. Weier,
1276
01:49:10,770 --> 01:49:13,350
be retained
in the adult jurisdiction.
1277
01:49:13,400 --> 01:49:14,690
As so ordered.
1278
01:49:18,650 --> 01:49:20,860
There were tears and some
surprise here in court
1279
01:49:20,900 --> 01:49:24,320
as a judge denied a motion
by lawyers for both girls
1280
01:49:24,370 --> 01:49:26,950
to have their cases handled
in juvenile court.
1281
01:49:26,990 --> 01:49:28,910
Anissa Weier's lawyer
went on to say
1282
01:49:28,950 --> 01:49:31,870
they'll be discussing
the possibility of an appeal.
1283
01:49:31,920 --> 01:49:35,000
The victim's father here said
they wouldn't be commenting,
1284
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:37,540
though the family
did appear to be upbeat
1285
01:49:37,590 --> 01:49:38,880
following this decision.
1286
01:50:02,320 --> 01:50:05,610
I'm sure that they would
have been found eventually.
1287
01:50:05,660 --> 01:50:08,740
I think they never would have
made it to the state forest.
1288
01:50:11,080 --> 01:50:14,370
From Waukesha
to the Nicolet State Forest
1289
01:50:14,420 --> 01:50:17,040
is a good four-
to five-hour drive.
1290
01:50:17,090 --> 01:50:19,420
And they thought
they were going to walk that?
1291
01:50:21,130 --> 01:50:26,260
They had no idea of what it would
take to walk that distance.
1292
01:50:29,890 --> 01:50:36,770
The judge ordered that Anissa have
no contact with the Internet.
1293
01:50:38,820 --> 01:50:41,020
The judge also ordered
that, you know,
1294
01:50:41,070 --> 01:50:43,570
she have no contact
with the co-defendant.
1295
01:50:52,620 --> 01:50:56,460
Morgan has no access
to the outdoors.
1296
01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:01,290
Not even a window to look out.
1297
01:51:02,550 --> 01:51:05,420
Morgan says that
this doesn't bother her,
1298
01:51:05,470 --> 01:51:08,800
because she doesn't want
to go outside anymore.
1299
01:51:13,100 --> 01:51:18,980
One of the things that Anissa
and her had talked about was,
1300
01:51:19,020 --> 01:51:20,650
no matter what happened...
1301
01:51:21,610 --> 01:51:23,480
they would always be together.
1302
01:51:24,305 --> 01:52:24,688
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