All language subtitles for Cuba embargo_ Why does the US continue to reject UN moves to end it_ • FRANCE 24 English (1080p_25fps_H264-128kbit_AAC).inglés
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[Music]
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foreign
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[Music]
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welcome to the France 24 debate I'm
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Marco in Cuba and the Embargo imposed
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back in an era when John F Kennedy was
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in the White House and Fidel Castro was
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the revolutionary leader of Cuba 60
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years later it's still in place and it
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weighs on the lives of the people of
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Cuba the United Nations this week will
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vote once again for the 30th time on the
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lifting of the Embargo and this vote is
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destined to be blocked once again by the
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U.S and its Chief Ally Israel our panel
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will be discussing why the U.S continues
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to block the lifting of these
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restrictions what it means for Cuba what
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it means for Latin America the debate
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then the whole issue regarding Cuba and
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its blockade now since of course it was
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originally put down there have been many
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things that have happened arm cells of
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course were banned four years before the
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actual full embargo on Cuba and of
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course that meant that Cuba lent on its
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major Ally the Soviet Union to make up
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that Gap the Cuban Missile Crisis came
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and went hostility and rhetoric
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continued to boil through
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but this thing still remains in an area
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which is clearly very very different so
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who is holding back from who and who's
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benefiting these and other questions
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will be discussed by our panel here in
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the studio let me introduce them and
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Kratz is a historian and a specialist in
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U.S foreign affairs and thank you for
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being with us thank you for having me
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with ant Pascal drool expert on Latin
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America from The schwozoi Institute
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Pascal as ever great to see thank you
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very much indeed on the other side of
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our studio is Luis Cabrera journalist
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here at France 24 and important to uh
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point out here a Cuban citizen Luis
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great to see you thank you very much
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indeed we have guests joining us from
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afar they are in Cuba Carlos al-zugarai
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who is a Cuban Diplomat and former
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Ambassador call us thank you very much
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for being with us
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we'll be letting you loosen a second sir
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Eric's van is joining us to a member of
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Republicans in France and author of the
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book La banier
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etale Eric thank you very much for being
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with us we will start with you sir can I
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put a basic question to you Eric's fan
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uh joining us from afar republics in
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France but you're in the US I understand
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uh Eric why is the US so dead set
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against lifting this embargo
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well the first thing to say is that it's
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a lot of people put confuse and embargo
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with
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um Blake it is not a blockade there's no
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problem for people in Cuba or for the
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government to buy things from France or
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Denmark or China or Russia it's their
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only blocking uh American stuff from
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being sold there so the Communists in
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Cuba should be delighted they should be
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delighted because they're keeping stuff
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made by the Imperial
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oh Yankee capitalist pigs from being
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brought to Cuba they should be delighted
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Eric thank you let me let me start let
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me stop you there because I wanted a
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short introductions to what it is and I
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think you've really hit the realm of the
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head from the Republican perspective
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thank you so very much indeed let me
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bring in Carlos Azul garai uh for a
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reply to that one Carlos from your
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perspective you heard what Eric was
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saying representing the Republicans
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abroad speaking more or less on behalf
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of the Republican Party what's your
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point of view sir
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well it is uh maybe maybe the blockade
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is to a is too excessive maybe I don't
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know but an embargo is not because uh
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and the and these every government in
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the world agrees is that the U.S
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coercive measures against Cuba or
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sanctions against Cuba to use two words
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that are not blockade uh our extra
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territorial they they really stop other
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countries from Trading with Theo for
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example no country can export to Cuba
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products more with more than 10 American
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Conference or can they import anything
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with more than 10 percent human
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components so if you want to buy a candy
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in the United States for uh from a third
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country you have to make sure that less
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than 10 children's in that country or if
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you want to buy a car the car has to
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have less than 10 percent of nickel
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which makes it very complicated on the
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other hand there are the financial
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missions that make it very difficult to
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do transactions through Banks Banks are
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being fined for doing transgender as
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simple as transferring some money to
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Cuba or receiving some dollars from Cuba
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so it is a conjunction of unilateral
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coercive measure of extraterritorial
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Nature and the most important thing is
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that since 1960 the U.S in an internal
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memo said the purpose is to bring about
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Hunger desperation and the overthrow of
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the given government now another thing
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that has to be taken into account is
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that putting Cuba in the list of states
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and sponsors of terrorism without any
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justification at all ads additional
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sanctions to Cuba and finally the U.S
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um
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has a closed down the Consular section
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in of their Embassy in Havana which
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makes it even more difficult so it is a
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very hostile policy it's cruel the the
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Embargo the Embargo or blockade as we
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want to call it has been increased
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during the pandemia at moments when Cuba
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was struggling to produce vaccines for
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its population the United States the
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Trump Administration and later dividing
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Administration increased the number of
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sanctions so it is it is a cruel and
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perverse policy to create a situation in
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which the Cuban people rise against
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their government and overthrow it
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call us thank you for now very much
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indeed just to picking up what you were
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saying there about the the recent
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demonstrations the U.S imposing
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sanctions on Cuban police force uh
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leaders and and others in response to
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those uh crackdowns on protesters that
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you were talking about there uh Biden
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promising Cuban American leaders the
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more action is coming we'll get to sense
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as a Democrat Republican kind of
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Face-Off going on within U.S which is
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possibly leaving Cuba as the kind of uh
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scapegoat in many ways those
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demonstrations we were talking about
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July the 11th 2021 a spontaneous Street
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protests in 50 cities saw thousands of
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people uh climbing for change they'll be
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shouting Freedom down with the
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dictatorship we are hungry all this kind
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of a mass kind of rollover problems are
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often coming from the the pandemic as
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well as Carlos was saying let's bring in
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more guests here in the studio and Gratz
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um
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is Cuba a victim of a kind of
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difference of opinion here between the
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Democrats on one hand Obama when he came
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to power
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basically relax things a bit more then
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Trump comes back in and closes the door
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again right well when we when we when
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Obama Started lifting many of these
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sanctions imposed on Cuba it immediately
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had a positive effect on Cuba I think we
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can say this without a fear of being
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contradicted uh businesses were allowed
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to open up to be owned by Cubans
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themselves uh businesses that had
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American owners could actually be set up
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in Cuba and so on and so forth that's
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really just from the point of view of of
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business the business approach and Obama
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was obviously
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convinced that that very long the
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longest of all embargoes that were ever
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imposed on another country by the United
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States or by any other country for that
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matter had not produced the results that
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we were all hoping it would initially
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and the result that we were hoping it
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would would be that they would be that
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there would be a change of regime and
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that the Communist Marxist regime of
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Cuba would fall apart
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Etc but it didn't but at the same time
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when Obama did relax measures including
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for American citizens to go and travel
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to Cuba it brought all kinds of
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well-being measures in Cuba itself
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and then comes Trump and he starts
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you know going back to what I might call
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the body politic in the United States
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sometimes whether they be Democrat or
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Republicans and that is called an
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addiction to sanctions once you have
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sanctions in place nobody seems to know
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how to lift them even when they don't
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obviously fulfill the the original aim
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and what's happening to Cuba now is
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[Music]
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disastrous basically but I might add if
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I may you may there is a there's of
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course the other political elements the
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political element is the Hispanic vote
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and especially the Cuban American votes
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especially in States like Florida and
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Texas now where do we see we have a
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senator in Florida that whose name is
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Marco Rubio himself of Cuban descent and
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we have Ted Cruz in Texas and those two
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guys I was going to say forgive by
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and you can say guys don't you worry
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about it your English is fantastic
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please continue yeah I'm never going to
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let the Embargo against Cuba perhaps and
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certainly not now in the just before the
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midterm elections and the problem is
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that since Obama during the Obama period
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there was obviously a sentiment shared
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by many Americans said people things
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should open up right Obama wasn't
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opening up kind of person and he was
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followed by the population but a lot of
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things have changed since then and it's
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only been what eight years ago but it
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was it feels like 20 years ago and even
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the young Cuban Americans who were all
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on the side of Obama when he ran for
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president some of them have turned
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around and definitely the older Cuban
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Americans are very much against lifting
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the Embargo for really one reason and
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that is because they cannot be assured
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that if the Embargo were lifted they
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would ever recover the money that the
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Marxist government
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took away from them when they had to go
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into Exile Old Wounds still open still
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hurting and thank you let's bring in a
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Cuban youngster forgive me corny
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youngster I'm not being patronizing but
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you are a lot younger than me actually
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um Luis um give us a sense of of life
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that you left behind in Cuba when you
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came to France what is life like that
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what is like life like like there now
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for your family for instance yeah I just
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went to Cuba back in July so I have uh
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fresh memories of how uh people are
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being affected about the situation
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nowadays of course it's a combination of
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factors it's not only the U.S embargo
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you have the Kobe pandemic and you have
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the own Cuban government whose economic
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uh policy is a disaster as well but
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let's
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um I propose you to show you some of the
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00:10:48,958 --> 00:10:53,458
examples of the main issues the Cuban
275
00:10:50,820 --> 00:10:55,500
Cuban people encounter nowadays and
276
00:10:53,458 --> 00:10:57,838
let's try to make a link of
277
00:10:55,500 --> 00:10:59,339
um how it's uh that the responsibility
278
00:10:57,839 --> 00:11:01,680
there's a responsibility for those
279
00:10:59,339 --> 00:11:04,920
problems belongs or not to the Embargo
280
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:06,899
correspond or not to the U.S sanctions
281
00:11:04,919 --> 00:11:09,539
for example one of the main issues they
282
00:11:06,899 --> 00:11:11,339
have Cubans nowadays is food
283
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um probably Dr also where I can speak
284
00:11:11,339 --> 00:11:16,200
more about that later but um in the case
285
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of food you have a shortage because of
286
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:21,060
course the economic situation is so bad
287
00:11:17,578 --> 00:11:23,399
but also when a Cuban companies try to
288
00:11:21,059 --> 00:11:25,559
import food to the country then comes
289
00:11:23,399 --> 00:11:26,700
the persecution of the office of foreign
290
00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,739
asset controls of the United States
291
00:11:26,700 --> 00:11:31,200
saying like hey you cannot go to Cuba
292
00:11:28,740 --> 00:11:33,959
anymore with this I don't know let us
293
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:36,360
say soybeans because if you do so you're
294
00:11:33,958 --> 00:11:37,799
gonna be punished then if the Cuban
295
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,079
agriculture sector it doesn't matter if
296
00:11:37,799 --> 00:11:41,759
it's a private uh producer if it is a
297
00:11:40,078 --> 00:11:43,919
government if they try to buy something
298
00:11:41,759 --> 00:11:46,078
in the in the international market they
299
00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:47,639
will get the refusal as we were
300
00:11:46,078 --> 00:11:51,659
professors that I was pointing before
301
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for example the um latest figures is is
302
00:11:51,659 --> 00:11:57,419
that in the last year they made 518
303
00:11:54,659 --> 00:11:59,699
requests for
304
00:11:57,419 --> 00:12:01,319
um tractors batteries engines forklifts
305
00:11:59,700 --> 00:12:04,680
parts and pieces for the for agriculture
306
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,940
and only nine of those 519 were accepted
307
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,219
and we are not talking about the us
308
00:12:05,940 --> 00:12:10,920
we're talking about the entire world so
309
00:12:08,220 --> 00:12:13,320
it is all that because of the US embargo
310
00:12:10,919 --> 00:12:14,759
well is is that does that set the
311
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,560
precedent that creates the situation
312
00:12:14,759 --> 00:12:18,360
there we are talking about food in this
313
00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,979
case of course you have that on one hand
314
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,959
and on the other hand you have of course
315
00:12:19,980 --> 00:12:23,159
a lot of regulations the Cuban
316
00:12:21,958 --> 00:12:25,559
government imposes on private
317
00:12:23,159 --> 00:12:28,799
agricultures and of course that is us
318
00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:30,899
that is also another reason why the food
319
00:12:28,799 --> 00:12:32,759
situation is so bad in Cuba but you need
320
00:12:30,899 --> 00:12:33,899
to know that you have both of those
321
00:12:32,759 --> 00:12:35,819
reasons
322
00:12:33,899 --> 00:12:37,078
so the U.S embargo is not making it
323
00:12:35,820 --> 00:12:39,120
better it's actually worsen in the
324
00:12:37,078 --> 00:12:40,559
situation there I know Eric wants to get
325
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:41,820
him from the Republicans but before I
326
00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,759
come to you Eric I need to bring in
327
00:12:41,820 --> 00:12:46,139
Pascal druo here in the studio Pascal uh
328
00:12:44,759 --> 00:12:47,939
expert on Latin America from The
329
00:12:46,139 --> 00:12:51,180
schwazoy Institute
330
00:12:47,940 --> 00:12:53,339
um your view on on this embargo should
331
00:12:51,179 --> 00:12:55,199
it be lifted why is it being blocked the
332
00:12:53,339 --> 00:12:57,000
un's voted 30 times on it it gets
333
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,200
blocked every time what should happen I
334
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:01,259
think that in terms of international
335
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:04,680
Justice in terms of what's right sure I
336
00:13:01,259 --> 00:13:08,039
I think that the Embargo became through
337
00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:10,739
the decades part of both identity
338
00:13:08,039 --> 00:13:15,319
and both national identity
339
00:13:10,740 --> 00:13:18,060
for the USA for Cuba and it is source of
340
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:22,620
legitimacy of the power
341
00:13:18,059 --> 00:13:28,379
for Cuba and of course for the political
342
00:13:22,620 --> 00:13:30,919
measures in in the USA it is part of a
343
00:13:28,379 --> 00:13:34,919
political myth
344
00:13:30,919 --> 00:13:38,759
political obligation Duty for Latin
345
00:13:34,919 --> 00:13:43,078
America to engage some countries behind
346
00:13:38,759 --> 00:13:46,740
Cuba or supporting the U.S position and
347
00:13:43,078 --> 00:13:50,879
today we are in a Kafka situation in
348
00:13:46,740 --> 00:13:54,899
fact because if the Embargo is at the
349
00:13:50,879 --> 00:14:01,399
source since the executive order of JFK
350
00:13:54,899 --> 00:14:06,120
in 62 it is today a weakness the Demons
351
00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:09,440
of the nuclear war and the international
352
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:13,320
situation today the attention
353
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:16,980
are reinforcing this feeling and of
354
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:21,480
course it is becoming worse for for the
355
00:14:16,980 --> 00:14:25,680
myth of of the Cuban to the Cuban risk
356
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:29,459
so as Luis was saying it is very hard
357
00:14:25,679 --> 00:14:33,419
for the food but I've seen during many
358
00:14:29,458 --> 00:14:36,919
years in the the energy sector in Cuba
359
00:14:33,419 --> 00:14:39,979
how hard it is and for sure
360
00:14:36,919 --> 00:14:46,679
how the Embargo is
361
00:14:39,980 --> 00:14:49,519
managed to limit the the maintenance the
362
00:14:46,679 --> 00:14:54,299
the developing of
363
00:14:49,519 --> 00:14:57,899
the electric plants in Cuba so this
364
00:14:54,299 --> 00:14:59,939
situation today it is the Embargo is one
365
00:14:57,899 --> 00:15:02,278
part of the problem the problem is
366
00:14:59,940 --> 00:15:06,680
global it's political is economical it's
367
00:15:02,278 --> 00:15:10,078
social that's part of uh institutional
368
00:15:06,679 --> 00:15:13,679
in Cuba but that's part of the identity
369
00:15:10,078 --> 00:15:16,379
in Latin America and today we are in the
370
00:15:13,679 --> 00:15:18,239
Kafka situation Kafka has situation
371
00:15:16,379 --> 00:15:20,879
certainly this is obviously is a story
372
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,039
with a lot of history Batista was the
373
00:15:20,879 --> 00:15:25,439
previous leader of Cuba before Fidel
374
00:15:23,039 --> 00:15:27,000
Castro at took over Batista was a an
375
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,160
american-backed dictator I think it's
376
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:32,159
fair to say uh he of course over thrown
377
00:15:29,159 --> 00:15:33,838
in 1959 by a Castro's coup Caster will
378
00:15:32,159 --> 00:15:35,759
then be a thorn in the side of
379
00:15:33,839 --> 00:15:37,620
Washington for decades to come and arms
380
00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:38,939
embargo against the now communist Jew
381
00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:40,860
became soon after that Revolution
382
00:15:38,940 --> 00:15:43,560
Kennedy it was the Democratic president
383
00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:46,379
of the U.S who oversaw the imposing of
384
00:15:43,559 --> 00:15:48,299
the trade embargo in February 1962.
385
00:15:46,379 --> 00:15:50,100
let's get back to Eric's fan member of
386
00:15:48,299 --> 00:15:51,479
Republicans in France who's joining us
387
00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:53,519
from the United States Eric we
388
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,079
appreciate your time you're taking to
389
00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:56,820
speak to us I cut you short at the
390
00:15:55,078 --> 00:15:59,039
beginning I apologize for that you've
391
00:15:56,820 --> 00:16:00,600
now got free reign tell us what you
392
00:15:59,039 --> 00:16:02,099
think about the situation can I just put
393
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,920
it to you that this has become in many
394
00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:06,480
ways a kind of a kind of hobby horse for
395
00:16:04,919 --> 00:16:08,399
the Republicans because they've got so
396
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,500
many people to play to who want this to
397
00:16:08,399 --> 00:16:11,879
remain so they're keeping it as a policy
398
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,559
which perhaps no longer makes sense
399
00:16:11,879 --> 00:16:16,379
would you agree with that
400
00:16:13,559 --> 00:16:19,739
well I would say that uh Anne Kratz
401
00:16:16,379 --> 00:16:22,198
mentioned the Cuban Republicans uh the
402
00:16:19,740 --> 00:16:27,778
Cuban Americans especially Marco Rubio
403
00:16:22,198 --> 00:16:31,019
and uh and um Cruz Ted Cruz and she said
404
00:16:27,778 --> 00:16:33,539
um the the uh the these she suggested
405
00:16:31,019 --> 00:16:36,299
that these P these Cuban Americans are
406
00:16:33,539 --> 00:16:38,159
excessive because they won't forgive the
407
00:16:36,299 --> 00:16:39,778
Cubans for taking their money from them
408
00:16:38,159 --> 00:16:41,639
they didn't take their money from them
409
00:16:39,778 --> 00:16:45,480
they stole it from them of course they
410
00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:47,459
don't want to uh be want to play nice
411
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:50,339
and all that but the main question I
412
00:16:47,458 --> 00:16:53,458
have here is which country is the the
413
00:16:50,339 --> 00:16:57,740
one that delivers the most
414
00:16:53,458 --> 00:17:01,258
um food foodstuffs to Cuba and it is
415
00:16:57,740 --> 00:17:04,798
America it's the USA because the Embargo
416
00:17:01,259 --> 00:17:07,500
has exceptions for humanitarianism and
417
00:17:04,798 --> 00:17:09,779
that includes food and it includes a
418
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:12,838
medicine those are two things that are
419
00:17:09,779 --> 00:17:15,298
never mentioned and uh they never
420
00:17:12,838 --> 00:17:17,578
mention either I mean Russia supported
421
00:17:15,298 --> 00:17:22,199
or the Soviet Union was supported Cuba
422
00:17:17,578 --> 00:17:25,558
for uh 40 years uh 30 40 years and it
423
00:17:22,199 --> 00:17:28,439
still doesn't explain why Cuba can't
424
00:17:25,558 --> 00:17:31,500
live without the Yankee imperialist
425
00:17:28,439 --> 00:17:35,160
capitalist pigs and simply rely on
426
00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:38,759
France on Canada on Mexico and Venezuela
427
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:41,880
which they didn't unfortunately and um I
428
00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:45,240
would end with this um there's a Gustavo
429
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:47,640
Arcos bergness was uh was a was one of
430
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,558
the fighters with Castro and when he was
431
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,140
under this American dictator as you
432
00:17:49,558 --> 00:17:54,779
called Batista they were put into jail
433
00:17:52,140 --> 00:17:56,820
they were put into jail for 15 years and
434
00:17:54,779 --> 00:17:58,440
their jail consisted of a hospital Ward
435
00:17:56,819 --> 00:18:00,899
they were put in a nice Hospital Ward
436
00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:04,259
where they could cook their own food and
437
00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:06,780
where um and they were they were let out
438
00:18:04,259 --> 00:18:09,960
after less than two years when when
439
00:18:06,779 --> 00:18:12,899
Castro is is is uh when he when he
440
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:15,538
became president baroness did not agree
441
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:17,880
with what he what he said and Bernice
442
00:18:15,538 --> 00:18:20,519
was put into a real prison where the the
443
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,440
roof was so low that you couldn't stand
444
00:18:20,519 --> 00:18:24,720
up straight and he was there for 28
445
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:27,600
years and he wrote about this in the New
446
00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:31,200
York Times so there is so to Simply go
447
00:18:27,599 --> 00:18:33,659
over the the Communist revolutions like
448
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:36,179
we do with McCarthyism you know when
449
00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:38,038
McCarthy was in power that was who was
450
00:18:36,179 --> 00:18:40,919
in power in Russia and the Kremlin was
451
00:18:38,038 --> 00:18:42,900
Stalin I don't think Stalin is uh has
452
00:18:40,919 --> 00:18:46,140
anything to do with paranoia I think
453
00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:48,780
being paranoia paranoid about Stalin or
454
00:18:46,140 --> 00:18:51,780
the Castro Brothers uh has a little is
455
00:18:48,779 --> 00:18:53,160
pretty reasonable I need to now cut you
456
00:18:51,779 --> 00:18:54,480
off because I need to bring someone else
457
00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,400
into comment here but thank you for
458
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,900
making your points and I'm trying to
459
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,460
give you as Fair a shout as I can thank
460
00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:01,140
you so very much indeed you mentioned
461
00:18:59,460 --> 00:19:02,759
many things there mentioned many things
462
00:19:01,140 --> 00:19:05,100
there Luis I know when he talked about
463
00:19:02,759 --> 00:19:06,419
medicine yes I just want to be flinched
464
00:19:05,099 --> 00:19:07,619
tell us what I just want to bring your
465
00:19:06,419 --> 00:19:10,320
perspective because it's easy to say
466
00:19:07,619 --> 00:19:13,259
that the U.S is the fourth partner of
467
00:19:10,319 --> 00:19:16,200
Key West Imports but uh yeah because
468
00:19:13,259 --> 00:19:18,960
like if Cuba wants to buy something from
469
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,880
France and it does not make the criteria
470
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,220
of having less than 10 percent of Parts
471
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:25,500
made in the US France cannot sell it to
472
00:19:23,220 --> 00:19:27,360
Q and Cuba cannot buy it from France or
473
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:29,400
China or any other country in the world
474
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,839
so this actually creates parameters that
475
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,880
make things different yeah so of course
476
00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:34,079
Cuba can buy food from the from the from
477
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,400
the from the United States because it's
478
00:19:34,079 --> 00:19:37,619
so close and because it is the only
479
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,360
country allowing itself to sell products
480
00:19:37,619 --> 00:19:42,058
to Cuba and in the case of medicine this
481
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:44,639
is something that is probably the most
482
00:19:42,058 --> 00:19:46,079
shocking uh aspect of the U.S embargo
483
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,059
because we're talking about human lives
484
00:19:46,079 --> 00:19:49,558
here and
485
00:19:48,058 --> 00:19:52,500
um there are a lot of restrictions and
486
00:19:49,558 --> 00:19:54,839
and I have the most recent example for
487
00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:57,119
um this year happened for example the
488
00:19:54,839 --> 00:19:59,699
U.S prevents Cuba from acquiring
489
00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,379
custodial this is a chemical solution
490
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:03,538
that is used to maintain a viability of
491
00:20:01,380 --> 00:20:06,299
the organ to be transplanted there were
492
00:20:03,538 --> 00:20:07,619
eight kids in Cuba who needed this for a
493
00:20:06,298 --> 00:20:08,639
month and they couldn't buy it in the
494
00:20:07,619 --> 00:20:09,959
United States because the United States
495
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,940
wouldn't allow it to and they couldn't
496
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:15,000
buy anywhere else because the rest of
497
00:20:11,940 --> 00:20:17,580
the world was afraid of having sanctions
498
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,640
from the U.S and the solution to this
499
00:20:17,579 --> 00:20:23,460
was Cuban Americans in the U.S Gathering
500
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,140
money to buy it uh in the United States
501
00:20:23,460 --> 00:20:27,298
and trying to bring it to Cuba they
502
00:20:25,140 --> 00:20:30,179
needed a license to save these eight
503
00:20:27,298 --> 00:20:31,980
Cuban uh children lives it's something
504
00:20:30,179 --> 00:20:33,840
crazy and let me tell you something this
505
00:20:31,980 --> 00:20:35,279
is something that is very close to me
506
00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:36,720
because I know some of these children
507
00:20:35,279 --> 00:20:39,720
who didn't make it
508
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:43,558
so we are talking about Cuban lives here
509
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:45,120
children's lives and this needs to stop
510
00:20:43,558 --> 00:20:47,700
Luis thank you very much indeed let's go
511
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:50,159
back to Cuba Carlos the Cuban diplomats
512
00:20:47,700 --> 00:20:51,600
and former Ambassador is listening in uh
513
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,058
Carlos I know you've probably gotten
514
00:20:51,599 --> 00:20:56,519
many things to say uh about what you've
515
00:20:54,058 --> 00:20:58,079
been hearing yes yes go go ahead I'll
516
00:20:56,519 --> 00:20:59,879
just give you a cart launch away you go
517
00:20:58,079 --> 00:21:02,279
go ahead
518
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:04,520
no let me let me answer part of what
519
00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:08,819
some of the people have said for example
520
00:21:04,519 --> 00:21:11,279
uh Batista killed well there are
521
00:21:08,819 --> 00:21:13,980
different different calculations of
522
00:21:11,279 --> 00:21:16,379
people say 20 000 Cubans or more people
523
00:21:13,980 --> 00:21:20,038
think six thousand cubers but let me
524
00:21:16,380 --> 00:21:21,960
tell you for example the uh part of the
525
00:21:20,038 --> 00:21:25,500
people who attacked them on Calabar
526
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:28,679
barracks in 53 were taken prisoner and
527
00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:31,079
murdered they were murdered simply my
528
00:21:28,679 --> 00:21:34,679
father's friend a senator was murdered
529
00:21:31,079 --> 00:21:36,720
and his body grown into a lagito so that
530
00:21:34,679 --> 00:21:40,320
was Underpants
531
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:43,500
but this past time they were murdered
532
00:21:40,319 --> 00:21:45,298
simply tortured simply
533
00:21:43,500 --> 00:21:47,400
um and the Revolutionary what happened
534
00:21:45,298 --> 00:21:51,240
because it had to happen it was
535
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:54,600
inevitable because Batista in 1952 took
536
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:57,480
power through a coup d'etat and stopped
537
00:21:54,599 --> 00:22:00,240
the uh Democratic process so the
538
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:04,259
Democratic process in Cuba stopped back
539
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:06,659
in 1952 and a new democracy was created
540
00:22:04,259 --> 00:22:09,538
by the Cuban government but let us let
541
00:22:06,659 --> 00:22:12,059
us not discuss that the question of the
542
00:22:09,538 --> 00:22:15,119
Embargo the human buys a lot of food
543
00:22:12,058 --> 00:22:17,579
stuff from many sources for example the
544
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:19,558
wheat that is bought for baking bread is
545
00:22:17,579 --> 00:22:22,319
not bought from the United States it's
546
00:22:19,558 --> 00:22:26,399
bought from Ukraine from Russia from
547
00:22:22,319 --> 00:22:29,099
whatever from Canada uh the legal
548
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:31,559
foodstuffs that Cuba can buy from the
549
00:22:29,099 --> 00:22:34,500
United States has to pay be paid in
550
00:22:31,558 --> 00:22:38,279
advance in cash through European Banks
551
00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:41,880
and you are most assume the The Exchange
552
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:42,720
the the the exchange um
553
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,600
um
554
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:48,000
taxes that when you change what you
555
00:22:45,599 --> 00:22:51,240
change Euros to dollar to pay dollars
556
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:54,659
you have to pay for them so but let's be
557
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:56,880
very Frank in 1960 an American Secretary
558
00:22:54,659 --> 00:22:59,640
of State Deputy of the Secretary of
559
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:01,740
State said we must put sanctions in
560
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,299
place to bring about Hunger desperation
561
00:23:01,740 --> 00:23:04,919
and they will throw the keyword
562
00:23:03,298 --> 00:23:07,139
government that's the policy of the
563
00:23:04,919 --> 00:23:11,580
United States towards Cuba to that much
564
00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:16,380
we added the the millions of dollars
565
00:23:11,579 --> 00:23:18,960
that are being given to uh people in
566
00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:22,440
Miami where there is a contact industry
567
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,779
of creating situations in Cuba and
568
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,679
reproducing fake news and creating
569
00:23:24,779 --> 00:23:30,359
situations so that there be that famous
570
00:23:27,679 --> 00:23:32,759
Uprising that they have been waiting for
571
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:36,899
and never happened
572
00:23:32,759 --> 00:23:39,058
um so let me say this the the policy the
573
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:42,659
policy that the United States has now on
574
00:23:39,058 --> 00:23:44,579
Cuba is a cold war policy it's a cold
575
00:23:42,659 --> 00:23:48,419
war that looks for
576
00:23:44,579 --> 00:23:52,259
uh an apps to surrender of the given
577
00:23:48,419 --> 00:23:54,059
government by a combination of coercive
578
00:23:52,259 --> 00:23:57,359
measures to make life difficult for
579
00:23:54,058 --> 00:23:59,879
humans and the creation of an atmosphere
580
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:02,579
in the social networks that make it
581
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:05,400
difficult now what this produces in Cuba
582
00:24:02,579 --> 00:24:07,678
is a very negative political effect one
583
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:11,100
you give the government the perfect
584
00:24:07,679 --> 00:24:13,860
Alibi to say well it's not beef but it's
585
00:24:11,099 --> 00:24:15,899
not my policies that are wrong which I
586
00:24:13,859 --> 00:24:18,418
disagree I think their policies are
587
00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:20,220
wrong and they should change it but the
588
00:24:18,419 --> 00:24:23,759
Embargo gives them the chance to blame
589
00:24:20,220 --> 00:24:27,000
someone else and secondly by by this uh
590
00:24:23,759 --> 00:24:28,558
policy of of putting pressure on the
591
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,460
Cuban government putting pressure on the
592
00:24:28,558 --> 00:24:36,298
Cuban people it uh it it produces an
593
00:24:32,460 --> 00:24:38,400
escalation of Potentials in Cuba which
594
00:24:36,298 --> 00:24:40,319
makes Cuba believe that we are under
595
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:44,960
siege and that when you are under siege
596
00:24:40,319 --> 00:24:48,899
you react very strongly now Obama in 19
597
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:52,079
in 2014 changed that basically because
598
00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:54,360
that policy was a failure and that
599
00:24:52,079 --> 00:24:56,759
policy is going to be a failure let's
600
00:24:54,359 --> 00:25:01,139
face it the United States is not going
601
00:24:56,759 --> 00:25:04,319
to make a result on a policy of
602
00:25:01,140 --> 00:25:08,179
sanctions to Cuba the best way to go is
603
00:25:04,319 --> 00:25:11,639
a normalization process in which Cuba is
604
00:25:08,179 --> 00:25:14,159
not on the so much pressure not under so
605
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,980
much tension so that we can work out our
606
00:25:14,159 --> 00:25:19,320
problems we can wear it our human rights
607
00:25:16,980 --> 00:25:21,900
problem our problems that have to do
608
00:25:19,319 --> 00:25:24,599
with the economy but not in a country
609
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:27,480
that is under siege we are a continuous
610
00:25:24,599 --> 00:25:29,579
Siege we feel Under Siege and everything
611
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:34,079
that you have to do or you want to do
612
00:25:29,579 --> 00:25:36,538
it's it's it's there is always the US uh
613
00:25:34,079 --> 00:25:40,019
blockade or sanctions in the bill I
614
00:25:36,538 --> 00:25:43,259
remember in 2015 Cuba and the United
615
00:25:40,019 --> 00:25:46,558
States agreed to to cooperate on the on
616
00:25:43,259 --> 00:25:48,538
the issue of Ebola in Africa the tuber
617
00:25:46,558 --> 00:25:50,119
medical mission was supposed to be paid
618
00:25:48,538 --> 00:25:52,919
through
619
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:54,599
dwho the World Health Organization well
620
00:25:52,919 --> 00:25:56,940
you know what happened when the health
621
00:25:54,599 --> 00:26:01,319
World Health Organization sent
622
00:25:56,940 --> 00:26:03,360
to uh Sierra Leone the money to pay the
623
00:26:01,319 --> 00:26:06,000
Cuban doctors who were risking their
624
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:09,298
life the money was stopped in New York
625
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,700
an interaction with Cuba that involves
626
00:26:09,298 --> 00:26:13,798
dollars has to go through a Clearing
627
00:26:11,700 --> 00:26:16,319
House in New York that takes about three
628
00:26:13,798 --> 00:26:19,319
or four months to approve it so the
629
00:26:16,319 --> 00:26:21,480
result was that Cuba had to send the the
630
00:26:19,319 --> 00:26:24,960
doctors he then sent to Africa under
631
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:28,140
that agreement which was agreed with the
632
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:31,019
American side because the U.S topped
633
00:26:28,140 --> 00:26:33,059
those dollars that that needed to to be
634
00:26:31,019 --> 00:26:35,700
paid the Cuban doctors were risking
635
00:26:33,058 --> 00:26:37,798
their lives to uh to finish the evil
636
00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:39,778
epidemic Arabic this is the kind of
637
00:26:37,798 --> 00:26:42,599
relationship we have we have with the
638
00:26:39,778 --> 00:26:46,019
United States is is a cruel and perverse
639
00:26:42,599 --> 00:26:49,199
policy that only produces pain and
640
00:26:46,019 --> 00:26:51,599
doesn't achieve Carlos thank you that
641
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,340
that they want Carla sazukara thank you
642
00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:55,918
very much indeed Eric's fun coming to
643
00:26:53,339 --> 00:27:01,259
you in a minute Pascal rule yes I think
644
00:26:55,919 --> 00:27:04,400
that uh today the symbolism of the war
645
00:27:01,259 --> 00:27:08,759
the symbolism of the
646
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:12,419
nuclear crisis in 62 became in fact the
647
00:27:08,759 --> 00:27:16,440
rule when the word has changed
648
00:27:12,419 --> 00:27:20,100
and nothing changed with Cuba and that's
649
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:23,278
very impressive to to to have this this
650
00:27:20,099 --> 00:27:26,939
feeling and this feeling now when we
651
00:27:23,278 --> 00:27:30,319
have in Europe a conventional War when
652
00:27:26,940 --> 00:27:32,480
we have this risk of uh
653
00:27:30,319 --> 00:27:37,379
nuclear
654
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:43,640
deterrence when the real risk today is
655
00:27:37,380 --> 00:27:46,140
in the China Sea is between the koreas
656
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:49,080
that's the point so that's very
657
00:27:46,140 --> 00:27:51,140
impressive to see the help and down of
658
00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:54,658
this relation that's not between
659
00:27:51,140 --> 00:27:57,120
Democrats of Republican Helms Burton has
660
00:27:54,659 --> 00:27:58,940
been taken through the Clinton
661
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:02,759
Administration
662
00:27:58,940 --> 00:28:06,259
torricelli through Bush 41. I mean
663
00:28:02,759 --> 00:28:10,919
that's source of identity and I'm very
664
00:28:06,259 --> 00:28:12,778
worrying in fact today go ahead well I
665
00:28:10,919 --> 00:28:15,659
think the irony is a historical irony
666
00:28:12,778 --> 00:28:18,900
here is that the the logo was imposed on
667
00:28:15,659 --> 00:28:21,480
Cuba because they had the goal to remove
668
00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:24,059
a Batista who had been installed by the
669
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:27,538
United States so there's a there's a
670
00:28:24,058 --> 00:28:29,579
cruel as your former intellectual said
671
00:28:27,538 --> 00:28:31,140
the irony there but I think one should
672
00:28:29,579 --> 00:28:32,819
concentrate on what's going to happen
673
00:28:31,140 --> 00:28:35,038
next
674
00:28:32,819 --> 00:28:36,599
um at this point the Baton
675
00:28:35,038 --> 00:28:38,640
Administration isn't going to change his
676
00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:40,319
thing to the Embargo for several reasons
677
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:42,840
some of which have outlined because of
678
00:28:40,319 --> 00:28:46,319
the competition in rhetoric anyway from
679
00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:48,538
the Cuban American Senators but it's
680
00:28:46,319 --> 00:28:50,579
also I think in in one perhaps shouldn't
681
00:28:48,538 --> 00:28:52,859
mention this it's also because the whole
682
00:28:50,579 --> 00:28:53,879
image of Cuba has considerably changed
683
00:28:52,859 --> 00:28:57,599
in the world
684
00:28:53,880 --> 00:29:00,480
Cuba had an aura okay Castro had an aura
685
00:28:57,599 --> 00:29:02,879
and a lot of French people as we know
686
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:05,278
sort of related to that aura and there
687
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,740
was also the figure of Che Guevara and
688
00:29:05,278 --> 00:29:10,079
both of those figures have now as it
689
00:29:07,740 --> 00:29:12,419
were passed into the into the background
690
00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:15,359
for young people including for young
691
00:29:12,419 --> 00:29:16,860
Hispanics in the United States and so
692
00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:20,599
those young Hispanics in the United
693
00:29:16,859 --> 00:29:25,019
States who had a sort of identity
694
00:29:20,599 --> 00:29:28,740
relation to those two uh Heroes if you
695
00:29:25,019 --> 00:29:31,079
will of of Latin America namely Castro
696
00:29:28,740 --> 00:29:33,359
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara those
697
00:29:31,079 --> 00:29:36,538
figures don't are not important anymore
698
00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:39,839
and and they are turning away from Cuba
699
00:29:36,538 --> 00:29:41,700
Cuba doesn't interest the Hispanics in
700
00:29:39,839 --> 00:29:45,119
the United States as much as it used to
701
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:47,640
and this is why in a sense because Biden
702
00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:50,398
is and the Democrats want and
703
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,919
legitimately so want to get hold of the
704
00:29:50,398 --> 00:29:54,538
Hispanic vote because they've done more
705
00:29:52,919 --> 00:29:55,759
for the Hispanic certain needed the
706
00:29:54,538 --> 00:29:58,558
Republicans
707
00:29:55,759 --> 00:30:01,079
and this is why Biden is not going to do
708
00:29:58,558 --> 00:30:03,418
anything about this now so unfortunately
709
00:30:01,079 --> 00:30:05,460
we feel that this embargo which is the
710
00:30:03,419 --> 00:30:07,140
oldest one in the world and which has we
711
00:30:05,460 --> 00:30:09,179
have the proof that it didn't produce
712
00:30:07,140 --> 00:30:11,159
the results that we wanted and we also
713
00:30:09,179 --> 00:30:12,960
have the proof that when Obama I repeat
714
00:30:11,159 --> 00:30:15,539
myself but I think it's important to
715
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,700
underline it when Obama tried to lighten
716
00:30:15,538 --> 00:30:19,798
it anyway if not taking taken out take
717
00:30:17,700 --> 00:30:22,440
it out altogether there was there was
718
00:30:19,798 --> 00:30:24,480
immediate response in Cuba itself and it
719
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,259
was good for the Cuban people as soon as
720
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,599
Trump
721
00:30:25,259 --> 00:30:30,240
made it you know very tough again
722
00:30:27,599 --> 00:30:32,879
immediately the Cuban government going
723
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,000
back to its old ways I must say of you
724
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:37,140
know oppressing and repressing
725
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,538
immediately went into that kind of a
726
00:30:37,140 --> 00:30:41,038
gear and and Cuba is the worst is the
727
00:30:39,538 --> 00:30:42,480
worst for it today and thank you very
728
00:30:41,038 --> 00:30:44,278
much indeed let's talk a little bit
729
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,558
briefly before we come back to our
730
00:30:44,278 --> 00:30:49,259
guests about to help that the U.S has
731
00:30:46,558 --> 00:30:51,658
given to Cuba uh humanitarian Aid
732
00:30:49,259 --> 00:30:54,000
hurricane Ian striking Cuba in September
733
00:30:51,659 --> 00:30:56,340
causing extensive damage to the island
734
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,140
uh this is all on record so there's
735
00:30:56,339 --> 00:30:59,879
nothing new coming out here the US
736
00:30:58,140 --> 00:31:01,919
announced then two billion dollars in
737
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:03,059
Aid to help the Cuban people
738
00:31:01,919 --> 00:31:05,759
um that's going to be generous by
739
00:31:03,058 --> 00:31:07,558
anybody's estimation let's see here now
740
00:31:05,759 --> 00:31:09,419
from Cuba's prime minister uh speaking
741
00:31:07,558 --> 00:31:12,558
sometime later about the cost of the
742
00:31:09,419 --> 00:31:12,559
Embargo 2 Cuba
743
00:31:15,980 --> 00:31:20,819
yesterday the U.S government announced
744
00:31:18,898 --> 00:31:22,678
their offer of 2 million dollars through
745
00:31:20,819 --> 00:31:25,439
the International Federation of Red
746
00:31:22,679 --> 00:31:26,940
Cross and red crescent societies for
747
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,419
which we have also expressed our
748
00:31:26,940 --> 00:31:29,419
gratitude
749
00:31:33,619 --> 00:31:39,418
I cannot yet give figures on the losses
750
00:31:36,538 --> 00:31:41,220
caused by Hurricane Ian still I did give
751
00:31:39,419 --> 00:31:43,919
data on the damages caused by the
752
00:31:41,220 --> 00:31:45,839
Embargo on Cuba over the last 17 months
753
00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:49,880
because the Embargo is a permanent
754
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:49,879
pandemic it is a constant hurricane
755
00:31:51,859 --> 00:31:55,619
correction before we go any further it
756
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,000
was two million not two billion the
757
00:31:55,619 --> 00:31:58,259
minute I said billion everyone said no
758
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,240
it was Millions so there you go
759
00:31:58,259 --> 00:32:02,879
nonetheless it is a substantial amount
760
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:04,740
of money Eric's van from the Republicans
761
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,899
in France movement author of La banier
762
00:32:04,740 --> 00:32:08,099
Italy Eric is in the U.S but he
763
00:32:06,898 --> 00:32:09,538
represents the Republicans here in
764
00:32:08,099 --> 00:32:10,619
France he'll be back here soon and when
765
00:32:09,538 --> 00:32:12,538
you are Eric coming to the studio
766
00:32:10,619 --> 00:32:14,879
because you're welcome anytime
767
00:32:12,538 --> 00:32:16,200
um thank you you are how can I put it I
768
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,820
mean completely at odds with everybody
769
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,860
around the table I think about the
770
00:32:17,819 --> 00:32:21,418
situation many people many people
771
00:32:19,859 --> 00:32:24,178
wherever they're watching might be
772
00:32:21,419 --> 00:32:26,278
thinking why does this continue isn't it
773
00:32:24,179 --> 00:32:27,960
isn't it up to the US to play the more
774
00:32:26,278 --> 00:32:30,839
large role the more generous role and
775
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,940
say okay let's let's let's sign this off
776
00:32:30,839 --> 00:32:35,339
to the past and let's open things up
777
00:32:32,940 --> 00:32:38,220
more so everybody can benefit
778
00:32:35,339 --> 00:32:40,558
well I I want to yeah I agree with some
779
00:32:38,220 --> 00:32:43,140
of what Ann Kratz said and I think that
780
00:32:40,558 --> 00:32:44,339
nobody ever mentions the name of Cuba's
781
00:32:43,140 --> 00:32:46,740
president and I don't think most people
782
00:32:44,339 --> 00:32:49,019
in France or most people in the USA or
783
00:32:46,740 --> 00:32:51,298
anyway know that his name is Miguel Diaz
784
00:32:49,019 --> 00:32:52,798
Canal nobody knows that everybody is
785
00:32:51,298 --> 00:32:54,298
always talking about the caspers but
786
00:32:52,798 --> 00:32:57,000
beyond that
787
00:32:54,298 --> 00:32:59,099
um you're talking about uh the
788
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:00,778
Ambassador mentioned a lot of people who
789
00:32:59,099 --> 00:33:03,359
were killed by
790
00:33:00,778 --> 00:33:05,819
um by Batista he doesn't mention the the
791
00:33:03,359 --> 00:33:09,000
number of people who are killed by a Che
792
00:33:05,819 --> 00:33:11,220
Guevara and the castras and um people
793
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,960
are let me to give the but to put this
794
00:33:11,220 --> 00:33:15,839
in perspective think of pinoshi
795
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:18,480
everybody was against Pinochet over I
796
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:20,278
don't know 15 20 years Pinochet killed 3
797
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:24,659
000 people
798
00:33:20,278 --> 00:33:26,759
um Fidel Castro killed 20 000.
799
00:33:24,659 --> 00:33:29,580
um more people more Cubans escaped from
800
00:33:26,759 --> 00:33:31,679
Cuba than people escaped from Sheila and
801
00:33:29,579 --> 00:33:33,960
Sheila is part of the Latin America the
802
00:33:31,679 --> 00:33:36,059
South American continent I reckon I hear
803
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,679
what you're saying sorry to sorry to cut
804
00:33:36,058 --> 00:33:39,119
across you because you're interesting
805
00:33:37,679 --> 00:33:40,740
and you're making good points but I hear
806
00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:45,599
what you're saying but bring it up to
807
00:33:40,740 --> 00:33:48,659
date to today why continue the Embargo
808
00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:50,639
I would say then like she said like Anne
809
00:33:48,659 --> 00:33:52,799
credit said most people I don't know a
810
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:55,860
lot of Latin Americans do not want it
811
00:33:52,798 --> 00:33:58,079
but uh they're they're also wary of all
812
00:33:55,859 --> 00:34:00,000
the of all the people both in Europe and
813
00:33:58,079 --> 00:34:03,000
in the USA who want to say oh let
814
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,740
bygones be bygones when they have when
815
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,380
the Castro Brothers have killed so many
816
00:34:04,740 --> 00:34:09,000
people and stolen so much and forced
817
00:34:07,380 --> 00:34:13,280
people to emigrate you know often
818
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,280
without their their their their goods
819
00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:18,719
the treaty signed in 96 I'm going back
820
00:34:16,858 --> 00:34:19,980
to my research here Helms Burton treaty
821
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,199
it said that once the castros are gone
822
00:34:19,980 --> 00:34:23,579
the the Embargo will go uh clearly
823
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:25,559
that's not been respected by the United
824
00:34:23,579 --> 00:34:28,319
States we had a guest here in the studio
825
00:34:25,559 --> 00:34:30,358
Louise talking about getting
826
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:32,519
organs to children who needed to be
827
00:34:30,358 --> 00:34:34,739
saved and that was slowed down by the
828
00:34:32,519 --> 00:34:36,838
Embargo it doesn't make any sense does
829
00:34:34,739 --> 00:34:39,838
it anymore surely
830
00:34:36,838 --> 00:34:43,259
I I think I think that you have you get
831
00:34:39,838 --> 00:34:45,480
the you get these small stories that are
832
00:34:43,260 --> 00:34:47,839
the tragic they're tragedy Eric it's
833
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:50,820
someone's life Eric it's someone's life
834
00:34:47,838 --> 00:34:53,000
someone's life people they were killed
835
00:34:50,820 --> 00:34:55,440
by by the Castro Brothers
836
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,000
but that's the past and at some point
837
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,400
the past has to be put to put away
838
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,579
doesn't it from the past like in South
839
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,579
Africa
840
00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:10,500
Communists never do that right now there
841
00:35:08,699 --> 00:35:12,480
are people there are people who who talk
842
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:14,159
about we need communism you know in
843
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,740
American high schools and in European
844
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:18,358
high schools we need uh communism in our
845
00:35:16,739 --> 00:35:20,759
countries because they're never taught
846
00:35:18,358 --> 00:35:23,960
about the number of people that that
847
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:27,480
were killed for example people um
848
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:30,480
one last thing most people lost things
849
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,480
foreign
850
00:35:31,139 --> 00:35:36,739
I'm sorry what no Eric finish your
851
00:35:33,179 --> 00:35:36,739
sentence then it's Carlos next okay I
852
00:35:42,838 --> 00:35:47,759
said a year by the Taurus regime and
853
00:35:45,179 --> 00:35:50,338
that came to 1500 people who died of
854
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:53,280
starvation every day in the Communist
855
00:35:50,338 --> 00:35:56,460
gulags of Lenin and Stalin so people are
856
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:58,740
not being taught their their history no
857
00:35:56,460 --> 00:36:00,539
system is ideal Eric I think we all
858
00:35:58,739 --> 00:36:01,319
agree with that one however I think some
859
00:36:00,539 --> 00:36:03,480
of the things you're saying about
860
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:06,359
keeping up this keeping up this sambargo
861
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,920
in spite of uh the fact that say you
862
00:36:06,358 --> 00:36:09,719
know the children that Luis is talking
863
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,460
about you know would be risk dying I
864
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:14,179
think I find that quite chilling Carlos
865
00:36:11,460 --> 00:36:18,539
you're on in Cuba
866
00:36:14,179 --> 00:36:21,239
Eric Eric's is is making propaganda let
867
00:36:18,539 --> 00:36:25,800
me give you an example the the Invaders
868
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:29,519
of the Bay of Pigs 1200 of them what is
869
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:32,640
1200 of them were made prisoner were
870
00:36:29,519 --> 00:36:34,920
they killed no they were returned to the
871
00:36:32,639 --> 00:36:40,139
United States in less than a year so
872
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:42,180
this bloody uh dictatorship let's go the
873
00:36:40,139 --> 00:36:44,699
people who attacked them with weapons
874
00:36:42,179 --> 00:36:48,299
who were sent by the CIA and that's a
875
00:36:44,699 --> 00:36:51,239
fact so please mention plaques no
876
00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:53,339
propaganda history is made about facts
877
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:56,419
not propaganda that's the only thing I
878
00:36:53,338 --> 00:37:00,420
want to say very insane
879
00:36:56,420 --> 00:37:02,519
the Cuban Revolution was inevitable the
880
00:37:00,420 --> 00:37:05,159
conditions in Cuba made it inevitable A
881
00:37:02,519 --> 00:37:07,619
revolution is not a dinner party it's
882
00:37:05,159 --> 00:37:10,559
Revolution Sorry by their very nature
883
00:37:07,619 --> 00:37:12,480
violent I think one of the less violent
884
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:15,000
Revolutions in the the history of the
885
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:18,260
world was the Cuban Revolution uh
886
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,260
historian years
887
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:24,480
in Cuba
888
00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:26,880
historian historian Duke Thomas who has
889
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:30,119
written this book about cubicle a
890
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:33,599
history of Freedom he he has calculated
891
00:37:30,119 --> 00:37:37,740
that in the first couple of years only
892
00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:39,900
600 or 700 people were executed were
893
00:37:37,739 --> 00:37:43,199
criminals by the way people who had told
894
00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:46,200
you and murdered Cubans so there is no
895
00:37:43,199 --> 00:37:48,960
history in Cuba like the one who created
896
00:37:46,199 --> 00:37:52,019
I lived in Argentina for four years
897
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:54,480
during the military dictatorship that
898
00:37:52,019 --> 00:37:56,519
was really terrible more than 17 000
899
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,400
people were killed by the Argentinian
900
00:37:56,519 --> 00:38:02,338
military dictatorship no there's no fact
901
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:04,320
no no no no concrete fact that
902
00:38:02,338 --> 00:38:07,799
demonstrates that something like that
903
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:09,900
has ever happened in Cuba after 1959.
904
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,359
Carlos thank you Louis Carrera here in
905
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:14,280
the studio yeah I was I was uh listening
906
00:38:12,358 --> 00:38:16,139
to Eric as well and I I wanted to remind
907
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:19,920
that the CIA
908
00:38:16,139 --> 00:38:22,440
um has uh executed plans in Cuba that
909
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:26,159
has actually killed people if we
910
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:30,420
remember in in the 1980s uh 1987 I think
911
00:38:26,159 --> 00:38:32,039
there was a plane who was uh attacked
912
00:38:30,420 --> 00:38:34,079
like in the year there was there was a
913
00:38:32,039 --> 00:38:36,259
bump inside the plane who killed all of
914
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:40,380
them 1976
915
00:38:36,260 --> 00:38:41,940
1976. thank you doctor and uh this is
916
00:38:40,380 --> 00:38:44,099
like we're talking about the US
917
00:38:41,940 --> 00:38:45,960
Government funding this kind of Terror
918
00:38:44,099 --> 00:38:48,480
attacks not to mention the one happening
919
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:52,079
in Cuban soil because they also send
920
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:53,639
people with large guns and shooting out
921
00:38:52,079 --> 00:38:55,320
to the hotels and I wanted to I wanted
922
00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:58,019
to bring as well an element that I think
923
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:01,440
is is very important Mark is because if
924
00:38:58,019 --> 00:39:04,500
you think about the Embargo very
925
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:07,019
like with it with a cold mine right this
926
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:08,519
is obviously not convenient for Cuba
927
00:39:07,019 --> 00:39:09,719
like human people are suffering it's not
928
00:39:08,519 --> 00:39:12,300
convenient for the Cuban government
929
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,799
because we're seeing nowadays that Cuban
930
00:39:12,300 --> 00:39:16,019
are going to this recent protesting
931
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,940
because the situation is so hard
932
00:39:16,019 --> 00:39:19,739
um Pascal was mentioned in the situation
933
00:39:17,940 --> 00:39:22,019
with the with the with the electricity
934
00:39:19,739 --> 00:39:24,059
Cuba cannot buy parts for its uh
935
00:39:22,019 --> 00:39:26,519
thermoelectric power plants in France or
936
00:39:24,059 --> 00:39:28,980
in Germany now in the United States if
937
00:39:26,519 --> 00:39:31,380
they're bringing fuel um from abroad the
938
00:39:28,980 --> 00:39:33,659
ships are stopped and they cannot uh go
939
00:39:31,380 --> 00:39:35,220
to Cuba so
940
00:39:33,659 --> 00:39:36,838
um it is not convenient for Cuba right
941
00:39:35,219 --> 00:39:38,279
it is not convenient for the us either
942
00:39:36,838 --> 00:39:40,559
because they're spending so much
943
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,540
taxpayers money on something that is not
944
00:39:40,559 --> 00:39:44,460
working it's not working so this and
945
00:39:42,539 --> 00:39:46,079
then keeping keeping this embargo going
946
00:39:44,460 --> 00:39:48,000
Louise it's it's an ideological thing
947
00:39:46,079 --> 00:39:49,740
isn't it John Bolton calling uh well
948
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,539
influencing Donald Trump back in one was
949
00:39:49,739 --> 00:39:53,578
elected in 2016 of course Bolton calling
950
00:39:51,539 --> 00:39:56,159
Cuba part of a Troika of tyranny Pascal
951
00:39:53,579 --> 00:39:58,380
uh with Nicaragua and Venezuela which
952
00:39:56,159 --> 00:40:00,000
resulted in Trump really imposing all
953
00:39:58,380 --> 00:40:02,160
the sanctions on Cuba all over again
954
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,519
it's an ideological thing as as you see
955
00:40:02,159 --> 00:40:07,319
more countries going towards the left
956
00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:09,719
across the continent of America is
957
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:11,280
Washington basically worried about what
958
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:13,199
is happening what the trends are and
959
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:15,420
therefore wants to keep the status quo
960
00:40:13,199 --> 00:40:16,559
for whatever reason it makes no sense to
961
00:40:15,420 --> 00:40:18,240
anybody else who's looking at it around
962
00:40:16,559 --> 00:40:23,940
the table a path America
963
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:24,838
yes that's uh possible but uh for your
964
00:40:23,940 --> 00:40:27,838
right
965
00:40:24,838 --> 00:40:30,078
Latin America is changing and that's
966
00:40:27,838 --> 00:40:34,159
very important for the USA
967
00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:40,920
uh the biggest economy in Latin America
968
00:40:34,159 --> 00:40:43,819
are now under left power Brazil since 24
969
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:47,820
hours Mexico
970
00:40:43,820 --> 00:40:51,599
Colombia Chile Argentina I mean the top
971
00:40:47,820 --> 00:40:56,640
five in Latin America now is under left
972
00:40:51,599 --> 00:41:00,440
Powers so and we could see the effect in
973
00:40:56,639 --> 00:41:04,319
the last assembly of the American states
974
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:07,019
organization where it is a strong debate
975
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:09,539
and where we can see that in Latin
976
00:41:07,019 --> 00:41:13,019
America Cuba is not alone
977
00:41:09,539 --> 00:41:15,199
Cuba is a country introduced in the
978
00:41:13,019 --> 00:41:19,320
international scene
979
00:41:15,199 --> 00:41:22,759
very strong in Latin America so take
980
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:26,579
care on that in some countries as Brazil
981
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:30,660
the first partner economic of the first
982
00:41:26,579 --> 00:41:33,900
Latin America economy Brazil is China
983
00:41:30,659 --> 00:41:38,279
they are not the USA so take care also
984
00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:41,220
with the suit with this us the USA to to
985
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:44,339
to stay under this historical I can
986
00:41:41,219 --> 00:41:47,539
understand but historical symbolism the
987
00:41:44,338 --> 00:41:51,480
reality today has changed can we imagine
988
00:41:47,539 --> 00:41:54,719
in 2022 that with Germany France
989
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:58,858
wouldn't speaking speak with Germany
990
00:41:54,719 --> 00:42:00,539
because 44 in 44 no one in France no one
991
00:41:58,858 --> 00:42:03,838
in Germany wanted to speak together
992
00:42:00,539 --> 00:42:06,420
today we are more than partner we are
993
00:42:03,838 --> 00:42:07,920
very strong in Europe Pascal thank you
994
00:42:06,420 --> 00:42:10,019
very much indeed everyone wants to speak
995
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,119
but sadly time is up I'll just leave you
996
00:42:10,019 --> 00:42:13,920
one thought A very wise Muslim one once
997
00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:15,480
told me in change there is blessing so
998
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,220
maybe in some kind of change there will
999
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,440
be blessings for all of us thanks to all
1000
00:42:17,219 --> 00:42:21,239
the parable taking part Eric's fan from
1001
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:24,059
Republicans in France joining us from
1002
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,858
the US Carlos al-zugarai in Cuba thank
1003
00:42:24,059 --> 00:42:27,900
you sir Robert Louis Carrera here in the
1004
00:42:25,858 --> 00:42:29,699
studio thank you Luis thanks to Pascal
1005
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:31,800
Giro from The schwazzo Institute and
1006
00:42:29,699 --> 00:42:33,539
ankratz thank you you for joining us too
1007
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,160
very much indeed thank you for watching
1008
00:42:33,539 --> 00:42:38,340
wherever you are stay with us more to
1009
00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:41,418
come here on France 24.
1010
00:42:38,340 --> 00:42:41,419
[Music]
1011
00:42:44,820 --> 00:42:46,939
[Music]
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