All language subtitles for The.Murders.at.Starved.Rock.S01E02.1080p.WEB.h264-OPUS_track4_eng

Person 1:
At this time, I'll ask you
to turn off your cellphones.

All witnesses,
including members of the bar,

will take
an oath of affirmation
or truthfulness.

Person 2:
I just need you both to raise
your right hands, please.

Do you solemnly swear
and affirm the testimony

you give at this hearing
today will be the truth,

the whole truth and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?

-I do.
-Mary Pruett: Yes.

Members of the board,
it is our contention

that Mr. Weger's confession
in this case was involuntary,

and was the product of physical
and psychological duress.

At one point, Mr. Weger was kept
awake for a period of 24 hours,

where he was repeatedly
questioned off and on
by his interrogators,

and subjected to lie...

David Raccuglia:
I was incredibly excited

about filming at the clemency
hearing in Chicago.

These are all things
I had never heard.

You gotta realize
I lived in the home
on the prosecution side,

my father's side of the story.

Also, it was the first time
I was going to be able to see

Chester's family.

Mary:
I believe my brother
is innocent.

He could never have done
anything like this to anybody.

Just clear your mind,
and open your hearts.

Things throughout the years
have just been shoved aside.

David:
Chester's sister spoke.

They asked one of the victim's
family to speak.

I'm Diane Oetting,

and I am the firstborn
granddaughter
of Lillian Oetting.

We're the ones that never
had the privilege to meet her

because on March 14th, 1960,

that opportunity
was taken away from us

by the actions of Chester Weger.

George Oetting:
Weger only deserves
to remain quietly

incarcerated
in his Illinois prison

until his final breath.

That was his sentence,
and only then will our families

be able to establish
some sense of personal closure

in this case.

Thank you
for your consideration.

David:
I think my father was last,

and he gave a pretty strong
fire and brimstone kinda speech.

I have a disappointment

that surpasses
all other disappointments
in my professional career

that Chester Weger did not
get the electric chair.

Today Miss Kelly asks you
to give him a reprieve.

He already has his reprieve.

His reprieve is to be
allowed to live,

and keep his soul intact
for 45 years,

waiting to descend in hell,
to burn forever.

Only then will justice prevail.

David:
So, when the hearing was over,
and they were walking out,

we were trying
to get an interview
with Chester's sisters.

I just wish that you
would've told me that you
were Raccuglia's son

because he has lied,
he has did so many lies,

and if I would've known that,
I wouldn't have even
talked to you.

You're biased.
That's all I have to say.

Elveta Milby:
That's right.
You're 100% all the way, sis.

If Raccuglia wants
my brother to go to hell,

there should be a lot more
to go to hell a-along with him.

That's all I can say.

David:
Chester's family did not trust
me in any way, shape, or form.

And I'm sure my father's
passionate comments
didn't help that day.

But I kept trying.

I wanted the truth,
you know, and I was trying
to let her know,

"Look, I know this looks
strange, but, you know,
what do you have to lose?"

Wh-- You know--
What's he gonna go to jail?

Wh-What am I trying to prove?

Why would I make a film
to prove somebody's guilty?

(pensive music playing)

♪ ♪

-Crew Member 1:
Okay, let's roll.
-Crew Member 2: Still rolling.

I just thought of him
as extremely guilty

until I started reading
into this a little bit more.

I went to the clemency hearing,
and heard her speak.

I said, "This is it.
I'm gonna go full, full steam
ahead with this thing."

When I finally did
get Donna Kelly to agree

to an interview
with John Drummond,
not with me,

but I knew that was gonna
change the whole dynamic

because I was,
for the first time, really gonna
get to listen to another side.

I was appointed
to represent Mr. Weger
in approximately 2001.

In reviewing the transcripts
of the record on appeal,

I had determined

that there were a lot

of troublesome aspects
to the case.

John Drummond:
Obviously, you must've
been convinced that

he might've been innocent.

I, I was convinced of that,

and I am convinced
of that to this day.

Mr. Weger should not
have been even charged

with the offense,
let alone convicted.

There's a whole other side
that really wasn't focused on

by the people who believe
Chester Weger is guilty.

Donna Kelly's clemency petition

was motivated by the locals
in this community.

Person:
There he is. Hey, Bob.

Bob Petre:
Hi, guys.
What's going on?

Person:
Ah, we just wanted to stop by,

and take a look
at some of that stuff,

uh, you guys have put together.

Bob:
I went over to Donna's office,

and she said, "Well, what's
your interest in this case?"

And I said,
"Well, he's innocent."

She says, "Can you prove it?"
And I said, "Yes."

Been working on this
Chester Weger case

for some 24 years now,

and I'm convinced
in my mind that he's innocent.

One of the things
that bothered me through,

through everything was,

was, how many people
were involved, you know?

They had two different
hair samples,

so they knew that there
were at least two killers.

That was big for me.

Let's see what else--
if there's anything else
on this board.

Oh, robbery was the motive
in this case and nothing--

It always bothered me
that nothing was robbed.

Th-the wedding rings were there,
the jewelry was there.

Nothing was taken
from the women.

Steve Stout:
I'm just amazed at the people

who stand out there,
and scream on
the street corners

that Chester Weger's innocent,
but never talked to me.

The people who are interested
in learning everything

about the Starved Rock murders,
they have that information
in one place.

I've had people read the book,
and say, "I believe that
he didn't do it."

I go, "Which book did you read?"

When I read that book,
I, I thought Chester,
probably, did it,

but he didn't do it alone.

The next time I read the book,

I, I paid a little more
attention to detail.

The people that Steve
was thanking

for the information
for the book

were the people that helped
Chester be put away.

Just didn't seem fair
and balanced.

What is Chester's motive?
Theft?

I mean, it's,
it's just ridiculous.

I was in the Committee to Free
Chester Weger with Bob.

We put a lot of time into this.

A lot of time.

Dave Marsh,
Bob Petre and Deedra Fox.

We were gonna solve the case
best we could,

or at least bring it back
into people's attention.

In my professional opinion,
having a degree

in criminal justice

and forensic science,

there is no way

that Chester Weger
is guilty.

David:
I really got to listen,
for the first time,

to the other side,

and I have to tell you,
it wasn't all innuendo.

There was things that I learned,

that I researched,
that I was shocked.

I talked to some jurors.

I, I talked to Nancy Porter.

That was eye-opening
stuff, too.

And I asked her, I said,

"There's no way one person
could've killed
those three women."

That much I know,"
and she said,

"Yeah, the jury knew that too."

When's all this
gonna come about now?

-David:
Oh, it takes a long time.
-Oh, I'm sure it does.

Nancy Porter:
I don't think any of us
were 100% sure.

The nagging doubt was because

the reason he--
we said he was guilty

was because he signed
a confession.

As far as we were concerned
there was no...

nothing to prove
that he did it besides that.

Bob:
She was not convinced
that Chester did it.

That's why she was opposed,
from the beginning,
to the death penalty.

With the life sentence,
if anything ever happened

that would prove that somebody
else did it, he had a chance.

If we put him to death,

and somebody came forward,
he was gone.

Bob:
She said, "If he did it."

She kept saying,
"If he did it."

And I said,
"Well, wait a minute.
What do you mean?"

You were on the jury."

And she said, "All I can say is,

"if they held that
same trial today

"with the evidence
that they had,

Chester Weger
would be a free man."

Nancy:
At the time,
we believed in the officers,

but after we got out,

I think there are 12 people

that had doubts
about their testimonies.

(David speaking)

Uh...

I'd never heard
of the-- those two officers

before the trial.

But, man, afterwards,

we heard plenty about them.

Bob:
The people responsible
for setting him up

was Billy Dummett
and Wayne Hess.

They were gonna get somebody.

Dan Churney:
People who think
Weger is innocent,

I can understand
where they're coming from.

My brother was a deputy sheriff
in this county for 25 years,

and he worked with Dummett,
and he told me,

this is exact quote,
he said,

"Dummett was as crooked
as the day was long."

I think that fuels this theory
that Weger was framed.

Deedra Fox:
It was political.

That was an election year.

The people of LaSalle County,

they had to have it solved.

David:
Harland Warren
was never gonna leave office

without getting
that case solved.

After he lost the election,

he would have to leave office
on December 1st,

so making the arrest
on November 16th

still made him
the man who solved
the Starved Rock murders,

whether he was
state's attorney or not.

Karen Norris:
I mean, we all know
how elections go.

I have heard some things
about the pressure

that he was under
if he didn't get a conviction.

I think my grandpa
just wanted it done.

(indistinct chatter)

Harland Warren:
This cake is
nonfattening, girls.

Woman:
Is that what it is?
Okay, well, that's good.

-It better not be because
this is a going out party.
-Woman: It's delicious.

You gotta have something good.

Karen:
People looked up
to my grandfather as someone

that literally shut down
a heinous, you know, murderer

and stopped him in his tracks,
so that it couldn't
happen again.

He protected the town,
he protected the park.

Anne Warren Smith:
Would you guys like
something to drink?

Karen:
My mom, she was
right there with him.

Answering phones,
doing errands for him.

She was pretty much by his side
up until the day he died.

He passed in 2006.

His office was still full
of everything,

um, people's files,
files from the case.

So, he did have a lot
of personal notes

that he was trying to just
suss out what the hell happened.

Dave Marsh:
Harland Warren's daughter,
basically, called me and said,

"Dave, I found this note.
It's scribbly.

I don't know what it is.
I think it's important."

What it was
was Harland Warren...

got hammered one night,

and drew up the plan
to frame Chester Weger.

It starts out with query.

"How do you prove Weger
was in the canyon?"

"Demand he confess.
Persuade him."

"Commence
psychological warfare."

Karen:
You guys know what
psychological warfare is?

It's where you break
someone down.

It's where you put enough
pressure on someone,

either physically, mentally,
or emotionally,

that they, literally,
have no choice but to give
into your demands.

It kinda made me sick
to my stomach

because that, literally,
meant that...

there wasn't enough evidence.

(fanfare plays)

I have been confronted
with a subject

who is stubbornly replying
to interrogation with lies.

This was clearly a place
where the polygraph could help.

Remember, the polygraph

is no substitute
for a thorough investigation.

David:
Chester Weger became
the main suspect

in the Starved Rock murders

because the operator
of the lie detector machine

was convinced this was the man.

Harland decided, "We gotta get
a confession out of this guy."

They were after him,

and they were going to go balls
to the walls to get this done.

Above all, the examiner
must scrupulously avoid

using the polygraph
as a psychological prop.

David:
They asked him

and Stanley Tucker,

Chester's friend, and also

another employee of the lodge,

to go to Chicago
to take another test.

Chester agreed.
Chester always agreed.

Chester Weger:
I had no brother,
and Stanley Tucker

was like a brother to me.

The police lied to him
and me so much.

They'd tell me,
"Stanley confessed,

and you might
as well come clean."

And they'd tell Stanley
the same thing about me,

tried to get Tucker to confess,
and it wasn't true.

Person:
Do you intend to answer,
truthfully, each question?

Yes.

Chester:
I told 'em, I said,

"You get me an attorney,
I'll take the test."

I said, "Otherwise,
I'm not taking it."

I'm already
hooked up to the machine,
he started asking me questions,

so I just started moving around
to mess up the test.

David:
According to Chester's account,
it made him very uncomfortable.

He started flexing his muscles,
he started doing things that
they'd consider suspicious.

They put Chester back
in the car.

Bill Dummett,
the deputy sheriff,
wasn't very happy,

and he turned around
to Chester in his, you know,
sort of, cowboy way,

and said, "Chester, you're
gonna ride a thunderbolt.

You're gonna ride
a thunderbolt."

And I knew what
he was talking about

because he threatened me
with the electric chair before,

and I told him, "I ain't going
to get the electric chair.
I ain't done nothing wrong."

(Chester speaking)

Donna Kelly:
During the trial,
Deputy Dummett swore under oath

that he never threatened
Chester Weger that he would
ride a thunderbolt.

And the defense called
as a witness, Craig Armstrong,

who was in the vehicle,

and the assistant
state's attorney testified

that Deputy Dummett indeed
threatened Chester Weger

that he would ride
a thunderbolt at least
five times during that trip.

Deputy Dummett was a perjurer.
He lied. He lied under oath.

Chester Weger's
entire conviction is based

on that man's word.

That evening, he was brought

to the LaSalle County
Courthouse,

and despite being kept up
for 24 hours,

interrogated continuously,

he still maintained
he was innocent.

Then, the Illinois State Police
began trailing Chester.

They had a 24-hour
surveillance on him.

Chester:
I was being followed
everywhere I went.

The police knew
what was happening.

It's not too long
before I got arrested.

(Harland speaking)

David:
The night of the confession,

Chester Weger was
brought in at five o'clock.

36 hours later,
he had confessed to murder,

to rape, to robbery,
to multiple people.

David:
James Supan,

who was the boyfriend
of the rape victim,

was brought in to identify him.

(Chester speaking)

One of the victims
did pick him out of a lineup,

but I have never been able
to get access to that lineup

until recently,
and the lineup is a joke.

Chester Weger was 21 years old.

The Sheriff's Department
from LaSalle County

put him in a lineup
with four or five gentlemen

who are not under
the age of 45.

A couple of them
are elderly men.

I mean, call it a lineup.
It looks more like
a clown show to me.

They wanted to sully
his reputation,

make him look like
habitual criminal.

This was completely
constructed out of thin air

by, uh, Dummett and Hess.

Chester:
On the night
that I was arrested,

Bill Dummett and Wayne Hess
already had a confession,

and they read it,
probably, 10, 15 times.

They were saying,
"You know you done this.
You know you done it."

I said, "I, I never
com-committed the murder."

Dave:
The way the whole thing
went down just stinks.

Interrogating somebody
at two o'clock in the morning?

Nothing good or honest happens
at two o'clock in the morning,

unless it's between you
and your wife.

Chester:
Bill Dummett started
messing around.

He was sitting behind me,

and he kept putting
a gun behind my head,

and pulling the trigger,
and stuff like that.

I turned like that,
and, and the pistol
went in my mouth.

He just kept on all night,
and he hit me in the groin,

and, he said,
"Oh, that hurt there,
didn't it?"

I said, "Yeah, it hurt,"
you know, and...

he, he just kept
hitting me, and--

Anthony Raccuglia:
Do I think that Dummett,
uh, did everything he could

psychologically to coerce
Chester Weger into
giving a statement?

Yes.

Do I think he physically
abused Chester Weger?
No.

Do I think we could've
convicted Chester Weger today?

Absolutely not.

I don't think the confessions
would've made it,

but the times were different.

See, you can't judge
Chester Weger's investigation,

and whether the confessions
were voluntary or involuntary

on 2000s law.

You have to go back in time.

That's what's
so hard for you guys.

Guys your age
that weren't even born.

Back then, a confession
didn't have to be voluntary.
It only had to be truthful.

And I think that's
what happened in this case.

-I don't think he
wanted to admit--
-Okay.

David:
Blind faith.

My father had blind faith
in the law.

As long as it went all the way
to the Supreme Court,
and it was upheld,

and it was all done
with legal merit,

there's no way Chester Weger
could be innocent of this crime.

Reporter:
This morning, Weger accompanied
police to the murder scene,

and reenacted
the crime for them.

Now I submit to this board
that anyone who reads

the substance
of these confessions

would know that these accounts
are fictional.

Chester:
I was told what to say down
there, and they coached me.

I figured, you know, people
are goin' to see this and, and
know that they're telling me.

Donna:
He told the police,
"Well, my motive was robbery."

Reporter:
He says he tried to grab
the purse of one woman,

and found it was a camera.

How does an unarmed man
of 5'8" height

convince three women
to go down into a canyon,

and agree to be tied up
when the man is unarmed?

Reporter:
The three women were cowed
into letting him tie them up.

But he then begged the three
women to give him a chance
to get away, which they did.

Donna:
And then, only after
Mr. Weger was leaving

does one decide
to break free of her string,

and go and attack him.

Reporter:
He then picked up a broken limb
of a tree and clubbed her,

but he was afraid the other
two women would get away,

so he clubbed them
to death, too.

Donna:
The confessions
don't even match

some of the physical evidence
in the case.

These women died with three
instrumentalities of death.

It's implausible that you're
gonna have a single individual

killing one woman
with the camera, hitting
the other one with a log,

and then, killing a third one
with a set of binoculars.
It just doesn't make any sense.

It seems as though
there was a struggle,

and there were
multiple individuals involved.

(Reporter speaking)

(Reporter speaking)

If the motive was robbery,
how come nothing here was taken?

There were--
The women had their watches,
they had their rings.

These confessions
are implausible,
they don't make any sense,

and yet, this is the evidence
which was used
to convict this man.

-David: This is such
a bizarre crime, Dad.
-Anthony: I agree.

David:
You know, beating three women's
heads off is not a standard--

-I agree.
-Rage doesn't even do that.

-Well, rage does, but--
-And then, let, let me
ask you this, though.

Then it said he staged them
to look like a rape

with their underpants torn off.

I mean, it just gets--
It, it gets even harder
to understand.

But we know why
he dragged them, uh, under
the, uh, cave, uh, edifice

is because he saw
that red airplane.

And that could not have been
known by anyone

other than the person who was
there at the time of the crime.

John:
From the confession, he went
to a great amount of detail

that only the killer,
you think, would know.

But the problem with that
is that Bill Dummett

was a member
of the Ottawa Airman's Club.

He, in fact, may have even
flown that plane before.

And we did have an affidavit
from Homer Charbonneau,

who was the pilot
of that plane.

Person:
Did you see Bill Dummett
a lot at the club?

-This was the--
-Oh, frequently, yeah.

Frequently, I saw him.

Bill Dummett could have known
prior to the confession

that that plane had been flown
on that particular day.

It was instrumental in
getting him convicted, I think,

and, uh, it bothers me.

The police already knew about
the plane before I was arrested.

(Person speaking)

Yeah.
"Big point, why pull bodies
underneath the cliff?"

"The plane was flying around,
checked Ottawa Airport."

"Wayne said deputy made it up."

Okay, that would be Wayne Hess.

If he said
the deputy made it up,

that's because Dummett and Hess,
they were in on it.

Man.

I mean, I've heard some
professional liars in my day.

Donna:
The entire case rests

on the credibility
of Bill Dummett,

an individual
who was a perjurer.

He was a liar.

Bill Dummett took
one of the murder weapons,

the log which was used

to bludgeon
three women to death,

and put it on his mantelpiece
as a trophy.

This only one example
of how the evidence
was handled in this case.

David:
They call him
"Dustpan Dummett."

He would always clean
something up for the state.

He, he was the guy
they would bring in,

and, all of a sudden,
a fact would appear.

You know,
according to Chester,

Dummett is the man who
fabricated, and wrote
the confession.

Dummett, yes.
I'd say that Dummett had a,

had a questionable reputation
in, in terms of investigations.

He would take over
an investigation,

and would, uh, not share
the, the, uh, information
until the last minute,

which was, uh, suspicious.

-(crow cawing)
-Radio Host:
Ken in South Ottawa.

Ken, I know you're old enough
to remember when this happened,

and you, probably,
knew Harland Warren, right?

Ken (on phone):
Knew both Harland Warren
and Tony Raccuglia,

and both gentlemen were--
had integrity beyond reproach.

Radio Host:
I agree.
I would never question

the integrity of the people
trying this case.

And it's in Steve Stout's book,
The Starved Rock Murders.

I mean, so that's pretty
convincing, I think,

just the transcript
from the trial.

Steve:
You could imagine the horror

of finding three tourists

dead at a state park.

It really was the OJ case
of its day,

and now, people think that
Mr. Warren, the detectives,

Tony Raccuglia were wrong.

They sent an innocent man
to jail.

You don't know these men
if you think that.

Mr. Warren,
why don't you come up?

-Person: Harland,
he's talking to you.
-What?

Steve:
Come on up.

-Steve: Yeah, you!
-Me.

Steve:
Ladies and gentlemen,
this is the hero of the county.

Steve:
No.

-Thank you for coming tonight.
Thank you very much.
-Glad to do it.

I think the real question,
Mr. Warren, would you ever send
an innocent man to jail?

No.

-It's that simple.
It's that simple.
-Well, I couldn't man--

Tell me,
could I manufacture that?

The airplane story?
How 'bout you?

Huh? No?

David:
Harland Warren
is a real enigma to me.

Highly celebrated.

He wanted to make a statement,
and he didn't want rebuttal.

Shake the hand
of a hero right here.
Thank you so much.

Dan:
Another thing that kinda
is unfathomable now,

Harland Warren and, uh, two
sheriff's office investigators,

uh, all shared the reward money

for solving the crime,
which, you know,

that's unbelievable that
that was how it went down.

David:
Harland Warren said he would
never take the money.

I thought that was his job,

but he ultimately
got the lion's share.

Anthony:
I didn't approve of that.

I don't know why he did it.
He certainly didn't
need the money.

Harland was upset that
more didn't go to his camp.

Well, what does that
tell you?

Doesn't that tell you
that his ego was involved?

He was upset because
he didn't get the credit.

Thank you for coming
tonight.

David:
I found Harland Warren's
character interesting.

A very strange little dynamic
in this community of reward,

and who was the hero,
and who was in it
for the money?

Dan:
I think people feel
you can't trust the system.

The system will always
screw the little guy.

People who believe
he was framed

feel the cops saw
there is a reward,

they wanted the money,

they wanted the prestige
of solving this big case,

and so, they picked on Weger,
and framed him.

Person:
Do you ask us to hold this

to the standard of 2005,
or to the standard of 1960

when the case was first, uh--

I ask you to hold it
to the standard of today,

and I think that--

In today's
criminal justice system,

hopefully, hopefully
this would never happen.

David:
I think police
like Bill Dummett believed,

to be a cop in the late '50s,

pushing criminals around
was part of the appeal
of being a policeman.

Right.
They went after him,
and they got him.

That was the only time
I met Dave Raccuglia.

It's like,

"This is a pro-Chester film

"that you're making.

What's your dad
gonna do to you?"

I wouldn't be real happy
if my child did that.

Do you think Weger's not guilty?
Is that what you're trying
to prove here?

A lot of people think
he's innocent.

A lot of people in this town
believe he's innocent.

All, all of these are myths
that, that are created by people

who don't know the inside story,

and I'm telling you,
Chester Weger is not innocent,

so I don't know
what you're trying to gain

by presenting
this type of documentary.

I don't think you'll ever
be able to show, uh,

anything other than the fact
that he's guilty.

Do you feel that...

the questions that
are out there today,

why I'm here
making this film,

is because of the way
the investigation
was handled?

Yes.
Everybody that was involved
in the investigation,

in my opinion,
did a terrible job,

but if you read
my final argument,

I don't think you'll hear
more than about five or 10
minutes on the confessions

because I knew that there
were holes in that confession.

I don't know
that the confessions

might, might've even had
as much of an impact

as that buckskin jacket.

That was a source
of information that didn't
come from Harland Warren,

it didn't come
from Bill Dummett.
It was human blood.

David:
The buckskin jacket
is something my father,

as an attorney,
was really hung up on.

That was an important part
of the prosecution.

There was no indication
of human blood on my jacket
at all until September.

Prior to that time,
they were saying that
the blood on my jacket

was animal blood, which it was.

It was either raccoon blood
or, or, uh, squirrel blood,
and I hunted both animals.

-David: Do what now?
-Franz Zwergel: Can we, can we
have you hold up the jacket

-again (inaudible) pull the tag,
so we can see the (inaudible)?
-Sure, okay.

Franz:
I was with David when
we were filming the evidence,

and we saw the buckskin jacket.

It was a pure passion project
for him,

and when he presented
things that he had found,

I, too, became
impassioned with it.

David:
I was a little shocked
by the evidence.

I was really
more emotionally distraught
over the women's clothes.

It was the scarf and the coats.
They had all this blood.

And then, I saw a little
name tag that said
"Chester Weger,"

and there it was
on the suede jacket.

I was very surprised
there was very little blood

visible on the jacket.

Let me put it this way.

From having seen
the buckskin jacket,

from having seen the photos
of the crime scene,

there would've been
so much blood.

There is no way that jacket
was a jacket that he "wore"

when he committed those murders.

It's impossible.

Donna:
The blood on the jacket was

never typed to any
of these women.

I filed a motion
for DNA testing.

The hope's to show,
through forensic evidence,

that Mr. Weger did not commit
these offenses.

John:
Now Weger's attorney
wants Weger's jacket

with blood splattered on it,
and hair from one

of the victim's hands
tested for DNA,

but there are some unique
problems in a 44-year-old case.

Do you guys want me looking
at the cameras or at him or...?

I, I was called upon
to, basically, conduct
an investigation

into how much of the evidence
still existed,

and whether or not we
could, actually, do anything
with that evidence.

Back in those days,

when a, when a case had
completed all of its appeals,

the evidence was destroyed.

Th-The fact that any evidence
in this case exists at all

is sheerly coincidental
and mostly because

of the, the hype surrounding
this case.

If I had to guess
how many people
have touched this evidence,

the number would have to be
in the hundreds.

I've touched that evidence
over the 60 years.

I've touched the camera,
I touched the binoculars.

I touched the clothes,
I've touched Weger's jacket.

I've touched the murder weapon.

Should I have?
I don't know.

I didn't break
any laws doing it.

Donna:
It was shocking
that the evidence

had been so compromised.

Just to give you an example,
the bloody clothes of the women

were stored in the same bag
as Mr. Weger's jacket.

So, that, that was--
Pretty much shot down
the hopes you had

through the testing that
you could absolve Mr. Weger.

Kathy Etz:
I wish we could test
the DNA evidence.

I absolutely wish
that they could test it,

but the idea that,
because we can't

that means he's innocent,
that does not follow for me.

I, I will say, I think
my whole family does believe,

you know, the idea that one man
overpowered three women

does not make
a whole lot of sense to us.

That there must have been
other individuals,

or there must be some
other things going on for him

to be able to overpower
three women.

David:
I feel sorry
for the victims' families.

They still have questions.

Just like Chester's family.

I would want clarity.

So, when I went back
to Chester's sister,

that's what I focused on.

I think she found it very hard
to believe that I could make

a fair story,
and not be biased
towards my father.

But I kept trying
to get her to understand

that we had good intentions.

Mary:
Doing this, I-I'm doing it
for my brother.

My brother has lost
his whole life over this.

Uh...

he's lost his kids,
growing up with his kids.

His wife died of cancer.

She's gone.

Mom and Dad are both gone.

And... I just don't want
my brother to die in prison.

We were a very poor family.

You might as well say we were
dirt poor because we were.

Uh, mother made a lot
of our clothes.

We got a lot
of homemade Christmas presents.

We had water
that had to be carried in.

But, you know,
as you're growing up,

you don't think
of those things.

We were a very loving family.

A lot of hugging,
a lot of kissing.

That was just Mom and Dad.

Why they picked him?

Is it because we were poor?

Is it because we lived
on the wrong side
of the tracks?

Why did they pick him?

I, I could never,
ever imagine my brother

doing something like this.

I've-- Can never, ever remember
my brother being angry or upset.

David:
He has no violence in his past
as far as a criminal record?

No, not that I know of, no.

The, uh, petitioner does have
a history of sexual assaults.

He was arrested as a 12-year-old
for statutory rape.

Uh, I am not clear
whether he was adju--

actually, even adjudicated
delinquent minor, I--

-He was.
-Donna: Okay, again,
he was 12 years old.

David:
The only thing that turned up
in Chester's history is,

when he was 12 years old,

a sexual assault charge
to a younger girl.

No, uh, I, I can never,
I can never remember

anything like that
growing up as a child.

Chester:
There was a girl
in my hometown,

her, her father had told me
to watch over her.

She was younger than me,
and one night when I was
throwing newspapers,

I was going home,
I heard crying.

The girl was raped,
and I'd helped her dress,

I carried her home.

That night the police
arrested me on a rape charge.

This girl's father
talked to a judge in Ottawa,

and he made
the police release me.

We was never shunned about it.

Our life went on the same way,

and I mean, we still
played together.

David:
That was his side of the story.

He was assisting someone
who had already been raped.

Again, more complication.

Anthony:
Donna Kelly did her job.

She's a lawyer,
and I understand
a pretty good lawyer.

But when they filed
that petition,

he convinced her
to put in that petition

a whole completely new alibi,

that he was in Oglesby
getting a haircut

the day
of this particular murder.

Why didn't he bring that out
at the time of the trial?

His alibi
was entirely different.

His alibi was
he was writing a letter.

David:
At the trial, Chester said

during the time of the murders
he was writing a letter

in a small little room
at the Starved Rock Lodge,

but we found out in 2003

that that wasn't
Chester's alibi.

According
to the clemency petition,

he went to Oglesby
with Stanley Tucker,

got a haircut
at Ben Franklin's Barber Shop,

and then, he picked a ride up
in Oglesby, and went to work.

Donna:
Mr. Franklin signed
an affidavit last year

indicating that Mr. Weger
was at his barber shop

during the time frame
which the state, uh,

believes that these women
were killed.

When John McNamara
called Stanley Tucker

to testify
as a defense witness,

Stanley Tucker,
all of a sudden,
had memory failure.

He couldn't recall whether
or not he even saw Chester Weger
on March 14th, 1960.

(David speaking)

Chester:
I had to.

Sandra Bland:
We're on First and Joliet Street
in LaSalle, Illinois,

the former
Robinhood Restaurant.

The kids would hang out here,

and have, like
french fries and soda.

And back here,

that's where I saw
Stanley Tucker

when I came out from work.

David:
Stanley Tucker
passed away in 2006.

You know,
I was trying to figure out

why he would lie on the stand.

Mary, Chester's sister, told me

that she knew someone who had
something to say about that.

Tell me about the night
that you were at the Robinhood.

How old were you on that night?

15.

I was just getting
done working,

and this black car pulled up
with no lights on,

and it was dark,

and it was Stanley Tucker
and his girlfriend.

Stanley said to me,
"Come here."

So, I walked around the car
to the driver's side.

This was during
Chester Weger's trial.

And Stanley said,

"I testified
against Chester today,"

and I asked him,
I said, "What did you do?"

And he said,
"Well, I lied on,

on the stand,"
he said, and--

"Because," he said,
"they threatened me."

He said, "I couldn't tell them

"that Chester didn't do it
in the courtroom

'cause I didn't wanna spend
the rest of my life in prison."

He got really scared,
and he said,

"You can't say nothing,"

he said, "because what they'll
do is they'll either hurt you,

"or they're gonna
hurt your family.

Don't ever say nothing
to nobody."

He said, "I gotta go before,
before the cops see me."

That was the last
I ever saw them.

David:
It's okay, you're doing great.

What are people scared of?

You think it's the authorities,
the sheriffs?

I ain't never asked.

I was just so scared,
I never asked, you know,

who, who
he was talking about.

I figured it had to be
the police.

The state got
to Stanley Tucker,

and it was the state
that got to him.

I don't know who did it,
and he got up,

and he didn't say
what they had done that day.

So, what was my brother supposed
to say, "Well, Stanley Tucker
gave me a ride?"

McNamara said, "That'll
never hold up in court."

And you're gonna do exactly
what he tells you to do

because he knows the law.

David:
I found those stories
incredibly interesting.

Well, I think we're finished.

I felt like Chester
had an alibi,

and it was like, "We've got
this Oswald-type character.

"He's the perfect one
to frame this on.

Let's go after him,
and get him."

At one point, I'll say
that David was obsessed

with getting Chester Weger
released from prison.

He was sure of his innocence.

David:
I couldn't believe that this
frail little guy in front of me

was capable
of what he was convicted of.

(Chester speaking)

(camera shutter clicking)

I know if someone
killed my mother,

I'd wanna know who done it.

David:
We found out a lot of stuff.

I mean, there's, there's
hundreds of people on camera
saying you're innocent,

but unless we get
a smoking gun in this film,

actually, uncovering
a murderer,

you won't get out
just from us making this film.

(indistinct chatter)

Dave:
The brutality of the murders,

I think, is consistent with, uh,
a motivated outside third party

that had a grudge
against these women.

It was obvious to me
that Chester had
nothing to do with it

from a bunch
of different sources.

Well, if Chester didn't do it,
then who did it?

Then, actually, a big break
came when we discovered...

this guy, Smokey Wrona.

I-It's pinned to the top of my,
uh, Starved Rock Murders
Facebook group.

Um, say your name,
and then, just tell your story.

My name is Alice Wrona.

My brother was
Harold "Smokey" Wrona.

And before he died in 2005,

he started talking
about prisons and whatnot.

Then I start asking him
questions, and...

(clears throat)

I was really shocked
when I got some of the answers.

-Dave: Your brother did?
-He's one of the killers, yes.

Dave:
Really?

Smokey confessed to her that

he was one of
the primary people

involved with
the Starved Rock murders.

Yeah, he was, basically,
the local muscle.

Smokey Wrona
was the one criminal

responsible for everything
in my hometown.

If something bad happened,

uh, the cops need to go
talk to Smokey.

Dave:
Alice Wrona, she estimates

that he's killed 13 people.

The very lifeblood
of organized crime

is gambling, prostitution,
and that sort of thing.

Dan:
The Illinois Crime Commission,

were seven counties
they considered

infested with organized crime.

Two of those seven counties
were LaSalle County right here,

and Bureau County,
which is right next door.

Smokey's crew, they were
involved with organized crime

around LaSalle County, you know?

It wasn't his idea.

He got paid $25,000
according to Alice.

You know, it was really
the husbands of the women

that were
the motivation behind this.

One was in a very bitter fight.

He wanted divorce
from his wife,

and, uh, she wasn't giving it,
so he had planned this.

And my brother got $25,000.

The theory was that Mr. Murphy
got a new secretary.

They got a little frisky,
and she became pregnant.

He tried to get a divorce,
and Mrs. Murphy wouldn't
give it to him.

Well, that's a clear motive.

Six weeks after
the Starved Rock murders,

he married his secretary.

If you go to
the public library,

you can see the wedding
announcement, May 5th.

So, that's six weeks after.

Well, the previous Mrs. Murphy,
her body's still warm.

There's a typo, I think,
in the date.

If you look at the news clipping
in archives,

it looks like he got
remarried like six weeks
after the murders,

when, actually, I believe
it was like a couple years.

So, people point to that,
and say, aha!

I find that preposterous.

Y-You have to fill it in,
but, you know, it's, it's--
It just seems obvious.

You are so irresponsible.

There's no way that
you could know anything
about what was going on in 1960,

and these people didn't speak
to any member of my family.

To me, that's inexcusable.

It's just absolutely false.

I asked how many people
were involved.

He says he knows
of 18 people and possibly 21.

Steve:
That's insanity.
18 people can't keep a secret.

$20,000?

You could buy two houses
with that back then.

David:
Is it ridiculous?
Yeah, probably.

And it's a really
blatant attack on a group
of innocent people

that just, their mother died.

I was very much trying
to get to the bottom

of all these
conspiracy theories.

I went down every avenue.

Stories that didn't
really add up.

But it wasn't all lies.

If Chester Weger then is
innocent, who do you suppose
could've done these things?

Well, my opinion on that,

I do have an opinion as to who
may have committed the murders.

I would rather not go
into that,

but I do believe
it was two individuals
who committed the murders,

and one of them
is deceased at this time.

David:
Donna Kelly had a theory
of who could have done this.

Did she mention a name?

Mary:
During her last days
on the case,

she told us that she gave
the state's attorney

two names that she wanted
to have investigated.

One name was Spiros.

Just days later,

after she turned the two names
in to be investigated,

a phone call come in
that George Spiros was dead.

Spiros had left his groceries
on the doorstep.

He went into the house...

and evidently killed him
and his dog.

Who would shoot their dog,
then shoot themselves,

whilst naked
from the waist down,

after having possibly gone
grocery shopping for the week?

David:
George Spiros
was the son of Nick Spiros

who owned and maintained
and ran the lodge.

Who, who is responsible for you
being here, do you believe?

I think, I think that...

He said that he seen me
and Stanley talking
to these three women.

The police were saying,
"Oh, we got an eyewitness here.

"Somebody working here
at Starved Rock seen him
talking to these women,

two workers," you know?

And it was a lie.

In 1960, to begin with,

the first suspect they had
I know was George Spiros.

There's so much money
in-involved in it, you know?

The Spiros are millionaires,

and, and a lot of people say
money talks, you know, and--

David:
He said a lot,

and I did everything I could
to prove it as truth.

That wasn't easy.

If you get mad at me,
get mad at me,
but I'm gonna tell you,

I'm gonna tell you
exactly what, what,
uh, I've heard,

that they were trying
to put a case together

that the potential murderer
was George Spiros.

Spiros, who was
sent away after,

right afterwards,
to boarding school.

What's "right afterwards"
to you?

They'd say,
"Well, after the murders,

George's father
sent him overseas."

Well, that was a few months,
no, it was a, a few weeks,
no, it was a few days.

In the several months
after the Starved Rock murders,

Spiros went back to Greece,

the family's
originally from Greece,
and then, eventually came back.

But, again,
that fed into this theory
that he was the real murderer,

and that he fled the country,
you know, until the heat
died down.

Dave:
This is absolutely
the work of George Spiros.

Rumors are not perpetuated
unless there is some
basis in fact.

I believe George
is one of the killers.

(Chester speaking)

There was a lot of people
in, in 1960

that believed that George Spiros
committed this crime.

Mary:
Donna Kelly,
she got an anonymous letter

that Spiros, when he was young,

he would knock a bird down,

and-- but he wouldn't
really kill it,

and then, he'd watch it squirm.

This is a path of somebody,
you know,

with bigger things in mind
as they get older.

She even put out,
"Whoever sent me the letter,
I'd like to talk to you,"

but the person
never did respond.

David:
One of the suspects
committed suicide, uh--

-He wasn't a suspect.
-David: He was never a suspect.

That's very unfair to do
to the memory of that man.

If you're so set on believing
that Chester Weger's innocent,

do some homework.

George Spiros killed himself

as a personal cure
for his cancer.

David:
Did you ever work
at Starved Rock?

Deedra:
Yes, I worked at Starved Rock
for George Spiros.

He used to really, like...

do spooky things.

Like, we had cabins...

and we would go in there,
and we'd clean.

You know how you get
the feeling like, you know,

there's something
not quite right,
like you're being watched.

And you'd look out,
you know, making the bed,

and there'd be George
in the window watching ya.

Several times,
when I went to leave,

the dogs were there,
and they wouldn't
let me out of the cabin,

and he would stand
out there and laugh at me.

"I enjoyed watching you
bend over that bed."

"You know what I'd like
to do is smack your ass."

H-He abused any woman.
It made him feel powerful.

What clicked for me is when
I saw the crime scene photos.

When I saw those paw prints,
it clicked.

And I believe he had those dogs
hold those women at bay

while he tied them up.

Chester:
Your father knew
I was innocent,

and to, intentionally, to send

an innocent man
to the penitentiary, it's wrong.

David:
How did he know you're innocent?
How did my father know that?

Your father knew I was innocent.

There was nothing
that pointed to me of, of
committing that crime.

Anthony:
He did it.

The only question, David,
is how did he do it?

I, I question that myself.

How can I criticize people
who bring out the fact

that here's a man by himself,

talks these people into
going into the, into the
St. Louis Canyon area,

and I can't because
I don't believe that myself.

I didn't think that Chester's
confessions were the truth.

It's a known fact that people
who give a confession,

sometimes they're not
willing to admit to the facts
that led to the crime,

and I think that's
what happened in this case.

He would not ever admit
to what really happened,

and that was that he

sexually assaulted
Mrs. Murphy.

My theory was inconsistent
with the confession,

but you have to remember
what we're doing here.

We're prosecutors.

We want to convict this man.

Even though we say that some
of those confession statements

are not plausible or truthful.

The part that is truthful

is the fact that he
killed those ladies.

David:
My father said to me he didn't
believe the confession.

He believed Chester Weger's
motive was more sexual
than it was robbery.

He had never really
said that to me before,
and I was a little shocked.

Donna:
The man who
prosecuted Chester Weger,

he has come up
with new theories,

which don't even match
the confessions.

According
to Chester Weger's confession,

the motive was robbery.

Now, 40-some years later,

Mr. Raccuglia
has publicly stated

that he believes the motive
was sexual assault.

This story is so fictional

that a sixth grader reading it
would realize that.

Anthony:
This case of Ms. Kelly's

is built on fantasy
and illusion.

It's cruel to Chester Weger,

if one should be
concerned about that,

to give him any kind of hope.

Mr. Raccuglia talks about
illusion and fantasy
in this petition.

I think the only illusion
and fantasy here is
the confession of Chester Weger.

So, I ask that this board
recommend to the governor

to grant Mr. Weger
an actual pardon.

-Thank you very much,
and thank you for coming.
-Thank you.

John:
Will he ever get out?

Donna:
It's in the governor's hands,

and I honestly do not know

whether he will
release him or not.

♪ ♪

David:
This is a tough case

to get
to the bottom of,

and my father's biblical belief
in his guilt,

probably, let him sleep well
at night,

and that's what it takes.

But for me, I was obsessed
with some sort of closure.

That was why
I was on this journey.

There really wasn't
any absolute smoking gun.

So, in 2010,
I hit the pause button.

Now here we sit in 2020,

and now they have
modern technology,

and that's, probably,
the only way some
closure could come to this.

DNA evidence
that shows Chester Weger

is either absolutely
the person or absolutely not.

I wanna know.

Andy Hale:
You are so screwed

once you get convicted,

if the system doesn't
get it right.

After serving 60 years
to vacate that conviction,

I think it's going to take
a holy-cow bombshell.

It would go down as
the longest prison sentence

to be vacated in U.S. history.

It's gonna take something big.

♪ ♪

♪ ♪

♪ ♪