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[music]
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[Paul Fournier] The Alhambra
Police Department was armed
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with limited information.
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They just know
that a gunshot occurred.
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They didn't know anything else--
who was shot.
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So, they made
a tactical entry,
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and then at one point,
one of the officers
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made a very good,
sound decision,
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and set a personal
tape recorder he had
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on the banister,
and recorded
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what I felt was some
pretty telltaling statements
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by Spector.
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[music]
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Daydreaming 'bout you
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So glad I found you
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I was lost without you
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I'll sing
a little louder
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So glad I found you
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I was lost
without you
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I'll sing
a little louder
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[helicopter whirring]
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[Paul] As an investigator,
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our job is to obtain
as much information
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from every source
that we can,
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any eyewitnesses that
would have been there,
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and then collect
physical evidence.
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[Richard Tomlin] As we walk in
through the front door,
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we see the actual scene
of the shooting.
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[Paul] A very beautiful
young lady
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was lying in the chair,
the position that she was in
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when she was shot.
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She had a purse
slung over her shoulder.
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Her legs were out,
stretched out in front of her,
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and the gun was on the floor.
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[Richard] At that point,
I really didn't know
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who Phil Spector was.
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I was gonna learn
a lot about him.
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[man] He seemed
like a quiet man.
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I really have only seen him
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maybe about four
or five times
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come by in his Prowler.
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[man] The Alhambra officers
conducted
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a very preliminary
investigation,
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and based on that investigation,
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they took Mr. Spector
into custody.
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[male reporter] He was a ghost,
a phantom,
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a half-forgotten rock genius.
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[female reporter] And he almost
never talks to the media,
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but just weeks
before the incident,
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he spoke candidly
to a journalist, Mick Brown.
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[stovetop clicking]
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[Mick Brown] Yeah, I knew
a fair bit about Phil Spector.
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For people of my generation,
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people who care about
rock and roll,
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he was a legendary figure.
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He was responsible
for the Crystals
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and the Ronettes,
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and then the Righteous Brothers,
of course,
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and Tina Turner.
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He produced the Beatles'
final album.
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For a so-called recluse,
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for somebody
who'd had this reputation
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for being wacko or crazy,
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he was extraordinarily candid
and extraordinarily honest.
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It was almost as if
he'd been waiting
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for a moment to talk.
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And so, I came away
from that interview
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just thinking
this was one
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of the most extraordinary
interviews of my life.
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And as it would turn out,
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one of the most fateful.
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It was, what,
four or five weeks later
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that Lana Clarkson
was murdered.
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I remember getting
to Alhambra...
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turning
into the electronic gate,
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and the car stopped.
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And the chauffeur,
Adriano de Souza,
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as I subsequently discovered,
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said, "Mr. Spector
likes people to walk up."
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[gate squeaking]
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There's a sort of sense
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of sort of baronial splendor
about it.
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And there was a long,
long flight of stairs.
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Eighty-eight steps leading up
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through these lowering pines
and trees...
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to the castle at the top.
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[doors creaking]
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And I set up my tape recorder
on the table between us,
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and then he started to talk.
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Testing, testing,
one, two, three, four.
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When did you first realize
you were different?
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[Phil] Very young.
Very young.
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Very young, yeah, I was...
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just always real--
always was different.
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[Mick] Phil was born
in New York in 1939,
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and his father Ben
was an iron worker.
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Mother, Bertha.
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And he had an elder sister
called Shirley.
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It seems that
he was a happy child.
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There didn't seem to be
any trouble in the family.
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But then, when he was nine,
this terrible thing happened.
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His father drove off to work
one morning...
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parked on a side street.
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[engine starting]
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He'd connected a tube
from his exhaust
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into the car,
and self-asphyxiation.
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And obviously,
this was the bomb
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that went off
in Phil Spector's life.
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[Phil] And I don't like
talking so--
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I don't like
talking about the past.
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It's difficult for me.
Difficult time.
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With, like, losing my dad,
it was very, very emotional.
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Oh, I was too young
to understand
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the value of losing
my dad, and...
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[Mick] But you're old enough
to feel the loss and to feel...
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[Phil] Old enough to feel
the loss, but not old enough
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to appreciate the loss
until I was much older.
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It's very, very, very,
very, very painful.
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[Nicole Spector]
When my dad's father died...
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you know, my dad was very much
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shaped by that.
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And it was a trauma
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that I don't think was ever
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really hands-on dealt with.
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00:09:26,566 --> 00:09:28,226
I think growing up back then--
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this is like, you know,
late '40s--
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there wasn't such a thing
as, like,
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"send your kid to therapy,"
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or whatever kind
of coping mechanisms
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we may promote now.
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We don't know why Ben
killed himself.
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But I think there's a very--
there's some suggestion
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there may have been
money worries.
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00:09:47,169 --> 00:09:49,759
But more plausible to me
is the idea
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that he was suffering
mentally in some way,
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perhaps was bipolar.
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And one thinks that
because Shirley,
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Phil's sister, then began
to manifest a mental illness.
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00:10:03,269 --> 00:10:06,649
She, in fact, ended up
in and out of institutions.
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When your emotions
control your actions,
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it affects not only yourself,
but the people around you.
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[Mick] The dynamic
within the family
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was clearly very dysfunctional,
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where the mother
and the sister
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alternately smothered
and bullied Phil.
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And in a way, it was like a--
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became like a tag
wrestling team, you know.
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"You take Phil on."
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"No, no, it's your turn
to take Phil on."
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And sometimes they'd both
be in the ring at him.
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It was like birds
chirping on a wire,
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where you know,
they'd be just...
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[vocalizing]
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Phil, of course, had his own
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terrible sort of
mental problems.
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So, I think there's some
suggestion there
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of hereditary illness
in the family.
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They were broke,
they were stranded.
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00:10:55,321 --> 00:10:57,321
They were very much
a blue-collar family.
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I think my dad's dad
worked in construction.
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You know, they didn't
have resources.
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And my dad
was very precocious,
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a very ambitious
young person.
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And they moved out to LA,
and I think the idea
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was he's gonna make it big.
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As I lie awake...
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[Russ Titelman]
Some people call it
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the rock-and-roll high school.
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Mo Ostin went there,
and when I was there,
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Steve Berry was there
at Fairfax.
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And some guy
who was in The Safaris,
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"Image of a Girl," he was there.
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Was the image of the girl
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I ought to find
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[Phil] You know,
timing is the key to everything.
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There's an element of luck...
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-[Mick] Sure.
-[Phil] ...in everything.
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In who you are,
where you are, what you are.
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But I call it timing
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that I happened to be
in Los Angeles in 1958.
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[Russ] I remember
the first time I met him.
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I must have been around 13.
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And as time went on,
I became very friendly
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and close with Phil.
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He was unbelievably charismatic.
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You know, very smart,
very funny, very charming.
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You know, language jokes
and things like that,
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like really sharp.
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00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:20,870
And, but then he was also,
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you know, he'd lie about things
unnecessarily.
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00:12:23,909 --> 00:12:26,199
Like, I think
he had an appointment
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00:12:26,245 --> 00:12:28,405
to go somewhere,
and we were at my house.
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He was on the phone,
you know, saying,
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00:12:29,957 --> 00:12:32,627
"Oh, we got in a car accident,
so I couldn't make it."
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You know, just make shit up.
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The truth
was vague sometimes.
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He was his own creation.
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00:12:42,303 --> 00:12:45,263
Of all the girls
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That I have met
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00:12:50,352 --> 00:12:52,562
[Phil] I used to think
I was missing much
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00:12:52,563 --> 00:12:53,863
by not being normal,
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and it sort of made life
complicated for me.
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00:12:58,652 --> 00:12:59,902
But it made it justified.
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"Oh, there's a reason
they hate my fucking guts.
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00:13:02,239 --> 00:13:03,949
"I look strange,
I act strange,
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00:13:03,991 --> 00:13:06,081
I'm making strange music,
I make..."
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00:13:06,076 --> 00:13:09,076
So, there's a reason
to hate my fucking guts,
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00:13:09,121 --> 00:13:10,711
because I felt hated.
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00:13:10,748 --> 00:13:12,708
I felt
completely ostracized.
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00:13:12,708 --> 00:13:15,248
I never felt like I fit in.
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00:13:17,838 --> 00:13:19,468
[Mick] I think it was Kim Fowley
who once said
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00:13:19,465 --> 00:13:23,425
that rock and roll is music
made by lonely people
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00:13:23,427 --> 00:13:24,927
for lonely people,
in the sense
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00:13:24,970 --> 00:13:28,470
that rock and roll is made
by people in their room.
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00:13:28,474 --> 00:13:30,434
Phil Spector
was very much that person.
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00:13:30,434 --> 00:13:33,274
He was that person
in his room.
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00:13:33,312 --> 00:13:34,732
Started listening to music,
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00:13:34,772 --> 00:13:39,862
particularly listened to jazz
and R&B stations in Los Angeles,
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00:13:39,860 --> 00:13:43,490
and became tremendously
passionate about this,
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00:13:43,489 --> 00:13:45,869
and tremendously enthusiastic
about this.
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00:13:45,866 --> 00:13:47,486
He didn't have a musical career,
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00:13:47,493 --> 00:13:50,453
but he was a very good
jazz guitar player.
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00:13:50,454 --> 00:13:53,004
There was a community
of musicians
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00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,670
that he was a part of,
and he started writing songs.
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00:13:57,711 --> 00:14:00,971
To know, know, know him
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00:14:00,965 --> 00:14:05,425
Is to love,
love, love him
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00:14:05,427 --> 00:14:09,267
Just to see him smile
228
00:14:09,306 --> 00:14:12,766
Makes my life
worthwhile
229
00:14:12,810 --> 00:14:16,020
To know, know, know him
230
00:14:16,021 --> 00:14:19,861
Is to love,
love, love him
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00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:23,700
And I do,
yes, I do
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00:14:23,737 --> 00:14:26,617
And I do
233
00:14:26,615 --> 00:14:27,945
And Phil Spector went...
234
00:14:27,992 --> 00:14:31,792
Ba-dah-dah,
dah-dah-dah
235
00:14:31,787 --> 00:14:36,207
I remember two different stories
from Phil about his father.
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00:14:36,208 --> 00:14:38,708
One-- he did not talk
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00:14:38,752 --> 00:14:41,462
a lot about him, but one was
238
00:14:41,505 --> 00:14:45,005
that he shot himself
with a gun.
239
00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:46,590
[gunshot]
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00:14:47,636 --> 00:14:49,556
And Phil found him.
241
00:14:49,555 --> 00:14:52,845
And the other story
was that he--
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00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:55,520
I think the word
is "asphyxiated" himself.
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00:14:59,857 --> 00:15:01,607
I know it affected Phil.
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00:15:01,609 --> 00:15:05,989
That sort of started him
on his journey.
245
00:15:06,030 --> 00:15:09,120
You know, when your father
commits suicide and...
246
00:15:10,034 --> 00:15:13,454
It was almost like
he was devoid of those feelings,
247
00:15:13,454 --> 00:15:16,754
or whatever feelings he had
on those levels,
248
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:19,130
he put it into his music.
249
00:15:20,753 --> 00:15:22,503
Phil had a social circle,
250
00:15:22,546 --> 00:15:25,586
and he was dating
my girlfriend Donna.
251
00:15:25,591 --> 00:15:27,681
And we were in
junior high school.
252
00:15:27,676 --> 00:15:30,176
And one day Phil came up to me
and he said,
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00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:32,180
"I love your voice."
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00:15:32,181 --> 00:15:32,891
Okay.
255
00:15:32,932 --> 00:15:35,102
I mean, I was like
16 and a half.
256
00:15:35,142 --> 00:15:37,942
And he said, "I'm gonna write
a song for your voice,
257
00:15:37,978 --> 00:15:40,308
and you can be in
our singing group."
258
00:15:40,314 --> 00:15:43,984
About two weeks later
the phone rings, and it's Phil.
259
00:15:43,984 --> 00:15:45,994
We went in the recording studio.
260
00:15:45,986 --> 00:15:49,196
Before I started to sing,
Phil came up to me
261
00:15:49,198 --> 00:15:50,948
and he said--
262
00:15:50,991 --> 00:15:53,081
He was even a producer then.
263
00:15:53,077 --> 00:15:55,327
This was the first thing
he ever did.
264
00:15:55,329 --> 00:15:57,459
He said...
265
00:15:58,916 --> 00:16:02,956
"Sing it like you have--
to a boyfriend."
266
00:16:02,962 --> 00:16:05,972
I said, "But I don't have
a boyfriend."
267
00:16:05,965 --> 00:16:08,795
He said,
"Then think of your father."
268
00:16:08,842 --> 00:16:12,182
[music playing,
applause]
269
00:16:13,597 --> 00:16:15,387
Ba-dah-dah,
dah-dah-dah
270
00:16:15,432 --> 00:16:19,142
To know, know, know him
271
00:16:19,144 --> 00:16:23,984
Is to love,
love, love him
272
00:16:23,983 --> 00:16:28,613
Just to see his smile
273
00:16:28,654 --> 00:16:32,874
Makes my life
worthwhile
274
00:16:32,908 --> 00:16:35,948
To know, know, know him
275
00:16:35,953 --> 00:16:40,463
Is to love,
love, love him
276
00:16:40,457 --> 00:16:42,247
And I do...
277
00:16:42,251 --> 00:16:45,131
So, we're at rehearsal
at "The Perry Como Show,"
278
00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:47,970
and when I went to go
for the high note,
279
00:16:47,965 --> 00:16:50,875
'cause it's at the top
of my range,
280
00:16:50,926 --> 00:16:52,216
my voice cracked.
281
00:16:52,219 --> 00:16:57,059
And I was mortified,
just absolutely mortified.
282
00:16:57,099 --> 00:16:59,689
Phil put me up against the wall
and he said,
283
00:16:59,685 --> 00:17:03,805
"If you fuck up my song,
I'm gonna kill you."
284
00:17:03,856 --> 00:17:05,186
Ahh!
285
00:17:05,190 --> 00:17:07,820
And then when we went
to sing the song,
286
00:17:07,818 --> 00:17:09,648
if you look at the show,
287
00:17:09,653 --> 00:17:14,453
there is a moment
before I go for the high note
288
00:17:14,491 --> 00:17:16,201
that I think a look of,
289
00:17:16,243 --> 00:17:20,123
"Please, God,
please let me hit this note."
290
00:17:20,164 --> 00:17:24,754
Do (And I do, and I,
and I do, and I)
291
00:17:24,752 --> 00:17:27,962
Why
292
00:17:27,963 --> 00:17:33,053
Can't he see
293
00:17:33,052 --> 00:17:37,562
How blind can he be
294
00:17:37,598 --> 00:17:41,438
It was a very high note,
but I hit it.
295
00:17:41,435 --> 00:17:44,395
Someday...
296
00:17:44,396 --> 00:17:47,266
The record went on
to become the number-one record
297
00:17:47,274 --> 00:17:48,324
in the world.
298
00:17:48,317 --> 00:17:53,157
It was on the charts longer
than any other record in 1958.
299
00:17:53,155 --> 00:17:54,815
We were in the number-one spot
300
00:17:54,823 --> 00:17:58,083
for I think about four weeks
or five weeks.
301
00:17:58,118 --> 00:18:01,998
To know, know, know him
302
00:18:01,997 --> 00:18:06,747
Is to love,
love, love him
303
00:18:08,170 --> 00:18:11,590
It was sort of ironic
that he would tell me
304
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:13,340
to sing it to my father,
305
00:18:13,342 --> 00:18:16,472
because he took off
his father's epitaph,
306
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:18,560
"To know him was to love him,"
307
00:18:18,597 --> 00:18:21,137
and turned it
into a teenage lament,
308
00:18:21,183 --> 00:18:23,563
"To know him is to love him."
309
00:18:23,602 --> 00:18:26,982
And I do
(And I do, and I)
310
00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:28,570
Ooh (And I do, and I)
311
00:18:28,607 --> 00:18:32,857
I do
(And I do, and I)
312
00:18:32,861 --> 00:18:36,281
Yes, I do
313
00:18:37,199 --> 00:18:41,909
When somebody's father
or parent kills themself,
314
00:18:41,912 --> 00:18:43,462
a child at a young age--
315
00:18:43,455 --> 00:18:46,825
because the child is the center
of their own universe,
316
00:18:46,875 --> 00:18:48,745
the child takes on
the burden of responsibility.
317
00:18:48,752 --> 00:18:51,302
You know, "I'm-- I must be
responsible for this
318
00:18:51,296 --> 00:18:53,256
"in some way,
it must be my fault,
319
00:18:53,257 --> 00:18:56,137
you know, that I've been
abandoned."
320
00:18:56,135 --> 00:18:57,545
So, there's this sense
of abandonment,
321
00:18:57,594 --> 00:19:00,934
and there's this sense of guilt,
and these two things going on.
322
00:19:00,931 --> 00:19:05,351
So, I think that was a weight
for him to carry.
323
00:19:08,939 --> 00:19:12,649
[Phil] I was motivated
by a sense of destiny.
324
00:19:12,651 --> 00:19:16,241
I heard something different.
325
00:19:16,238 --> 00:19:20,828
I saw a different kind
of music coming out.
326
00:19:22,161 --> 00:19:23,411
When the Teddy Bears
went to New York,
327
00:19:23,453 --> 00:19:26,333
when they were on tour,
Bertha decided that Shirley
328
00:19:26,373 --> 00:19:30,543
should manage Phil,
manage the group.
329
00:19:30,586 --> 00:19:33,336
Shirley became our manager.
330
00:19:33,338 --> 00:19:34,588
Thank you!
331
00:19:34,631 --> 00:19:36,181
I mean, she was--
that's, you know,
332
00:19:36,216 --> 00:19:38,636
so she would travel
with us at times.
333
00:19:38,677 --> 00:19:40,797
Just what I needed.
334
00:19:40,846 --> 00:19:43,966
He listened to his mother
and his sister.
335
00:19:44,016 --> 00:19:45,926
They were very involved
336
00:19:45,976 --> 00:19:50,726
in Phil's "To Know Him
is to Love Him" Teddy Bear days.
337
00:19:50,772 --> 00:19:53,112
They used to fight.
I didn't know about what,
338
00:19:53,108 --> 00:19:54,778
but they yelled and screamed.
339
00:19:54,776 --> 00:19:58,196
They had a rather contentious
relationship...
340
00:19:59,198 --> 00:20:01,368
that was explosive.
341
00:20:01,366 --> 00:20:05,496
[Carol] Our agent got to a point
where he could not deal
342
00:20:05,495 --> 00:20:07,155
with Shirley Spector.
343
00:20:07,164 --> 00:20:11,134
Could not deal with her.
344
00:20:11,126 --> 00:20:13,836
She was scary.
345
00:20:15,255 --> 00:20:19,675
I wasn't used to that
type of, you know,
346
00:20:19,676 --> 00:20:22,716
constant, you know, anger.
347
00:20:23,263 --> 00:20:25,813
I just, I wasn't used to it.
348
00:20:25,807 --> 00:20:26,927
This was a complete nightmare.
349
00:20:26,934 --> 00:20:30,024
I mean,
it was the brother and sister
350
00:20:30,062 --> 00:20:31,442
squabbling and arguing,
351
00:20:31,438 --> 00:20:36,898
and all of Shirley's incipient
sort of mental instabilities
352
00:20:36,944 --> 00:20:38,454
coming out.
353
00:20:39,404 --> 00:20:43,124
I've never heard such
a cacophony of noise in my life.
354
00:20:43,116 --> 00:20:45,446
Screaming, screaming, screaming.
355
00:20:45,452 --> 00:20:47,832
I mean, I remember, like,
I would always--
356
00:20:47,829 --> 00:20:52,289
I couldn't bear
the screaming.
357
00:20:53,502 --> 00:20:55,712
It was so intense.
358
00:20:58,715 --> 00:21:00,215
It was like they didn't--
359
00:21:00,217 --> 00:21:01,797
[shrieking]
It was always up here!
360
00:21:01,843 --> 00:21:03,303
[in normal voice]
Instead of talking normally.
361
00:21:03,345 --> 00:21:05,385
[Mick] After the Teddy Bears
had become a hit,
362
00:21:05,389 --> 00:21:06,889
you know, he was desperate
to get away
363
00:21:06,890 --> 00:21:10,890
from this stifling
dysfunctional family setup.
364
00:21:10,936 --> 00:21:14,306
Phil was still living at home
with Bertha and Shirley,
365
00:21:14,356 --> 00:21:16,016
with the tag wrestling team.
366
00:21:16,024 --> 00:21:18,994
Obviously, very anxious
to get away from that.
367
00:21:18,986 --> 00:21:21,776
Phil actually moved out,
and goes back to New York
368
00:21:21,780 --> 00:21:24,160
to work as the apprentice,
as it were,
369
00:21:24,199 --> 00:21:26,239
to Jerry Leiber
and Mike Stoller,
370
00:21:26,243 --> 00:21:30,713
who at that point were probably
the most successful producers
371
00:21:30,706 --> 00:21:32,666
in pop music.
372
00:21:32,666 --> 00:21:36,836
[Jeff Barry] I remember him
coming around to the offices,
373
00:21:36,878 --> 00:21:39,548
and I was introduced
to him then,
374
00:21:39,548 --> 00:21:42,258
and that's when
we started to collaborate.
375
00:21:42,301 --> 00:21:43,301
We had a lot of fun.
376
00:21:43,302 --> 00:21:46,722
I mean, there's nothing
to be not fun
377
00:21:46,763 --> 00:21:48,353
about writing songs
378
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:51,100
and being in your early 20s.
379
00:21:51,101 --> 00:21:52,771
It wasn't a hobby.
380
00:21:52,811 --> 00:21:57,861
It was serious
and dedicated, for sure.
381
00:21:57,899 --> 00:22:00,489
By this point, Phil is--
he's really beginning
382
00:22:00,485 --> 00:22:02,145
to feel his way,
and he's really beginning
383
00:22:02,154 --> 00:22:03,414
to believe in himself.
384
00:22:03,447 --> 00:22:06,527
He wasn't 21 yet,
and he wanted to have his money
385
00:22:06,533 --> 00:22:08,453
to start his record company,
but his mother
386
00:22:08,452 --> 00:22:10,292
wouldn't allow him
to have the money
387
00:22:10,287 --> 00:22:12,287
because he wasn't 21.
388
00:22:12,331 --> 00:22:14,291
So, I had to go to court
with Phil,
389
00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:16,633
and I was gonna be one
of the people
390
00:22:16,668 --> 00:22:18,378
speaking out in his favor
391
00:22:18,378 --> 00:22:20,088
that he should have the money.
392
00:22:20,088 --> 00:22:23,178
And his mother got on
and started talking,
393
00:22:23,216 --> 00:22:24,886
and talking, and talking.
394
00:22:24,926 --> 00:22:27,546
"He can't be trusted,
that we need the money,"
395
00:22:27,554 --> 00:22:30,974
and just nasty, degrading,
so to speak.
396
00:22:30,974 --> 00:22:33,194
And the judge
is shaking his head,
397
00:22:33,185 --> 00:22:34,515
and finally the gavel came down.
398
00:22:34,561 --> 00:22:35,811
-[gavel striking]
-"I've heard enough
399
00:22:35,812 --> 00:22:36,862
of this," he said.
400
00:22:36,897 --> 00:22:38,357
"Give him the money.
He's smart enough
401
00:22:38,398 --> 00:22:41,398
to earn the money.
He should have the money."
402
00:22:41,401 --> 00:22:44,951
[Carol] I think that Phil,
after the success
403
00:22:44,946 --> 00:22:47,406
of "To Know Him is to Love Him,"
404
00:22:47,407 --> 00:22:53,707
realized that he had
to control everything.
405
00:22:53,747 --> 00:22:54,867
And that's what he did.
406
00:22:54,915 --> 00:22:57,665
The record industry
at that point was--
407
00:22:57,667 --> 00:23:00,837
a lot of the people who were
powerful in the business
408
00:23:00,879 --> 00:23:02,919
were slightly older.
409
00:23:02,964 --> 00:23:04,634
They didn't want their territory
encroached on.
410
00:23:04,674 --> 00:23:07,394
They certainly didn't want
some young whippersnapper,
411
00:23:07,386 --> 00:23:09,006
as Phil Spector was, coming in
412
00:23:09,054 --> 00:23:11,934
and encroaching
on their territory.
413
00:23:11,932 --> 00:23:14,982
He went on to start
his own record label.
414
00:23:15,018 --> 00:23:18,518
Philles, it was called,
if I'm not mistaken.
415
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:26,110
Before 1950,
kids, teenagers,
416
00:23:26,154 --> 00:23:27,414
weren't a market.
417
00:23:27,447 --> 00:23:29,447
They didn't have money.
418
00:23:29,491 --> 00:23:33,291
So, no one was creating
music for them,
419
00:23:33,328 --> 00:23:35,958
only creating music for adults.
420
00:23:35,997 --> 00:23:39,457
Young people started writing
for young people.
421
00:23:40,085 --> 00:23:42,085
Yeah, I met Phil Spector
when I was 13,
422
00:23:42,129 --> 00:23:46,469
'cause we-- Phil was
recording us in New York.
423
00:23:47,551 --> 00:23:51,181
I loved the way he dressed,
I thought it was cool.
424
00:23:51,638 --> 00:23:55,388
I remember him
going down in his seat
425
00:23:55,392 --> 00:23:59,402
in the studio
when he was thinking
426
00:23:59,438 --> 00:24:02,568
with the music,
like in a trance.
427
00:24:05,485 --> 00:24:07,895
[Phil] I wanted to be
in the background.
428
00:24:07,946 --> 00:24:09,486
I wanted to be in
the background,
429
00:24:09,531 --> 00:24:10,621
but I wanted to be important,
430
00:24:10,615 --> 00:24:13,575
and I wanted
to be the focal point.
431
00:24:13,618 --> 00:24:15,498
And I was not afraid
or concerned
432
00:24:15,495 --> 00:24:17,575
about doing
anyone else's material,
433
00:24:17,622 --> 00:24:20,082
rewriting it,
I didn't care.
434
00:24:20,125 --> 00:24:23,085
I concerned myself
with the finished product
435
00:24:23,128 --> 00:24:26,968
and the art, because I had
this sound in my head.
436
00:24:27,757 --> 00:24:32,427
By this point, Phil, he's got
this sort of stable of artists,
437
00:24:32,471 --> 00:24:33,761
with the Paris Sisters,
438
00:24:33,763 --> 00:24:37,233
the Crystals,
Bob B. Soxx and the Blue Jeans.
439
00:24:37,267 --> 00:24:40,187
And he's shopping around
for another Crystals song,
440
00:24:40,228 --> 00:24:43,478
and a songwriter and artist
named Gene Pitney
441
00:24:43,523 --> 00:24:45,613
has written a song
called "He's a Rebel."
442
00:24:45,650 --> 00:24:47,820
Phil immediately
wants to record this,
443
00:24:47,819 --> 00:24:50,239
but he makes the decision
that he wants to record it
444
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,820
back in Los Angeles.
445
00:24:51,865 --> 00:24:54,695
[music]
446
00:24:55,619 --> 00:24:57,999
[Darlene Love]
I met him at Gold Star.
447
00:24:57,996 --> 00:24:59,616
He introduced himself
448
00:24:59,623 --> 00:25:02,293
and said he had this group
called the Crystals,
449
00:25:02,292 --> 00:25:04,042
but they were very young
450
00:25:04,044 --> 00:25:05,964
and they couldn't come out
451
00:25:05,962 --> 00:25:07,552
to California to record.
452
00:25:07,547 --> 00:25:09,757
So, he was looking for a group
and a singer
453
00:25:09,758 --> 00:25:12,928
to record this song
that he wanted me to do.
454
00:25:12,928 --> 00:25:14,138
He's my guy
455
00:25:14,179 --> 00:25:17,679
And he came in
in a suit, number one,
456
00:25:17,724 --> 00:25:21,734
and he had on a tie,
and he had on heels.
457
00:25:22,896 --> 00:25:24,146
So, we went into the studio,
458
00:25:24,147 --> 00:25:26,227
he taught me the song
"He's a Rebel."
459
00:25:26,233 --> 00:25:28,323
But when he told me
he wanted me to sing lead,
460
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:32,280
I said, "Well, it'll cost more
for me to sing lead."
461
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,700
He's a rebel
and he'll never, ever be...
462
00:25:34,699 --> 00:25:36,619
I thought it was a cute song,
I didn't think, you know.
463
00:25:36,660 --> 00:25:39,450
All the songs during that time
were cute little--
464
00:25:39,454 --> 00:25:41,124
well, we call 'em
bubblegum songs.
465
00:25:41,164 --> 00:25:43,334
The Crystals were doing a gig.
It was five of us.
466
00:25:43,375 --> 00:25:46,035
It was five, I think,
five of us, yeah, at the time.
467
00:25:46,044 --> 00:25:47,754
And we were doing a gig,
468
00:25:47,754 --> 00:25:49,214
and you know, we always
put on the radio
469
00:25:49,256 --> 00:25:52,586
so we can hear, and--
the top 10, or whatever.
470
00:25:52,634 --> 00:25:54,554
And we hear "He's a Rebel."
471
00:25:54,594 --> 00:25:56,474
He's not a rebel,
oh, no, no, no
472
00:25:56,471 --> 00:25:59,601
To me
473
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:01,179
Nobody thought
of anything.
474
00:26:01,226 --> 00:26:04,806
And the guy says,
"The Crystals."
475
00:26:04,854 --> 00:26:05,864
We were like, "Huh?"
476
00:26:05,897 --> 00:26:08,687
It was not my song,
and I knew that the whole time.
477
00:26:08,692 --> 00:26:10,612
That's why I never really got
upset about it,
478
00:26:10,652 --> 00:26:13,032
or felt I was cheated,
or anything like that.
479
00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:14,739
I knew when I went
into his studio
480
00:26:14,739 --> 00:26:17,579
to record "He's a Rebel,"
it was not gonna be my record.
481
00:26:17,617 --> 00:26:19,117
I'm very good on stage.
482
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,370
They won't like me
after today
483
00:26:21,371 --> 00:26:23,831
And I'm very powerful.
484
00:26:23,832 --> 00:26:28,002
And I can take Darlene's voice
and make it mine,
485
00:26:28,044 --> 00:26:30,094
but nobody
would be dissatisfied.
486
00:26:30,130 --> 00:26:33,260
So, I wasn't worried
about being secure.
487
00:26:33,258 --> 00:26:36,638
I just was pissed
because the Crystal name
488
00:26:36,636 --> 00:26:40,056
was underneath that,
and we were established.
489
00:26:40,056 --> 00:26:41,726
There was no way in heck
490
00:26:41,766 --> 00:26:45,556
that we could not
have done that song,
491
00:26:45,604 --> 00:26:46,904
especially with my voice.
492
00:26:46,896 --> 00:26:47,896
Oh, no, no, no
493
00:26:47,897 --> 00:26:51,027
He's not a rebel,
oh, no, no, no, to me
494
00:26:51,026 --> 00:26:53,146
It upset us when he did that.
495
00:26:53,153 --> 00:26:55,533
It upset us a lot.
It upset us.
496
00:26:55,572 --> 00:26:59,532
No, no, no,
no, no, no
497
00:26:59,534 --> 00:27:01,544
No, no, no
498
00:27:01,536 --> 00:27:04,456
We had a manager,
Joe Scandore.
499
00:27:04,497 --> 00:27:07,457
Joe Scandore was no joke,
'cause he knew he was mafia,
500
00:27:07,459 --> 00:27:12,169
you know, was-- had connection,
and that's who managed us.
501
00:27:12,172 --> 00:27:14,342
So, Joe Scandore was furious.
502
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,180
One day when I went
to his office,
503
00:27:18,219 --> 00:27:22,309
he's laughing with Jim,
this big bouncer,
504
00:27:22,349 --> 00:27:24,849
and he said--
with his Italian accent,
505
00:27:24,893 --> 00:27:28,193
he said, "Jim, tell La La
what you just did."
506
00:27:28,229 --> 00:27:29,649
And he said, "Yeah, La La,"
507
00:27:29,648 --> 00:27:30,978
he said, "I just flew
from California."
508
00:27:30,982 --> 00:27:33,532
He said, "Yeah, I ran Phil
around the effing table."
509
00:27:33,568 --> 00:27:36,908
He said, "And I told Phil
if he didn't record you girls,"
510
00:27:36,905 --> 00:27:40,575
he said, "I was gonna,
you know, kill his mother
511
00:27:40,617 --> 00:27:42,787
and cut his effing legs."
512
00:27:44,746 --> 00:27:47,536
Phil got scared,
and from that day on
513
00:27:47,540 --> 00:27:50,840
Phil carried bodyguards
with him every place he went.
514
00:27:50,877 --> 00:27:52,877
-That other bar's the same?
-Yeah, we'll...
515
00:27:52,879 --> 00:27:55,379
[Darlene] After we did
"He's a Rebel,"
516
00:27:55,423 --> 00:27:57,803
Phil wanted to do
something special for me.
517
00:27:57,801 --> 00:28:01,601
So, we were getting ready
to do a Darlene Love song.
518
00:28:01,638 --> 00:28:03,678
I started learning
"Doo Ron Ron,"
519
00:28:03,723 --> 00:28:06,313
and that was supposed
to be another song
520
00:28:06,309 --> 00:28:09,849
that was supposed to be mine
and not the Crystals.
521
00:28:09,854 --> 00:28:11,444
[La La] Phil never wanted
to use Darlene
522
00:28:11,439 --> 00:28:13,979
on "Da Doo Ron Ron"
because she had a woman's voice.
523
00:28:13,983 --> 00:28:15,153
Listen to the lyrics.
524
00:28:15,193 --> 00:28:17,613
It's for a child,
a young person.
525
00:28:17,612 --> 00:28:19,202
That's number one.
526
00:28:19,197 --> 00:28:22,197
Number two,
he was not putting Darlene
527
00:28:22,242 --> 00:28:24,292
on another track
of the Crystals.
528
00:28:24,285 --> 00:28:30,245
All I could think about
is Jim and Joe Scandore.
529
00:28:33,795 --> 00:28:38,715
Phil never told me,
even when I saw him.
530
00:28:38,717 --> 00:28:41,047
And many a day
I saw him in California
531
00:28:41,094 --> 00:28:42,394
putting down the music.
532
00:28:42,429 --> 00:28:44,889
He never took me to the side
and said, "You know, La La,
533
00:28:44,931 --> 00:28:47,391
guess what Joe Scandore
did to me?"
534
00:28:49,978 --> 00:28:52,938
So, you know, I don't know
how it crushed Phil,
535
00:28:52,939 --> 00:28:56,939
how it had an impact on him,
why he kept quiet.
536
00:28:56,943 --> 00:28:59,903
And I think the reason why Phil
didn't give an explanation
537
00:28:59,904 --> 00:29:03,074
is because he flew me out
to California,
538
00:29:03,116 --> 00:29:04,866
I recorded "Da Doo Ron Ron,"
539
00:29:04,868 --> 00:29:07,038
and he had one
of the biggest hits.
540
00:29:07,620 --> 00:29:10,920
I met him on a Monday
and my heart stood still
541
00:29:10,915 --> 00:29:13,835
Da doo ron-ron-ron,
da doo ron ron
542
00:29:13,877 --> 00:29:17,297
Somebody told me
that his name was Bill
543
00:29:17,297 --> 00:29:21,177
Da doo ron-ron-ron,
da doo ron ron
544
00:29:21,176 --> 00:29:24,346
Yes, he looked
so fine
545
00:29:24,387 --> 00:29:27,387
Yes, I'll make him mine
546
00:29:27,432 --> 00:29:30,022
And when he walked
me home
547
00:29:30,018 --> 00:29:36,068
Da doo ron-ron-ron,
da doo ron ron
548
00:29:36,065 --> 00:29:37,935
Yeah, yeah...
549
00:29:37,984 --> 00:29:39,824
[Darlene] I'm coming home
from a session,
550
00:29:39,819 --> 00:29:41,319
and I'm driving
down the street,
551
00:29:41,362 --> 00:29:45,282
and the disc jockey
on the radio
552
00:29:45,325 --> 00:29:48,155
said, "The next song
by the Crystals."
553
00:29:48,203 --> 00:29:51,793
Da doo ron ron, yeah...
554
00:29:51,831 --> 00:29:53,831
It was the same one,
it was the same key,
555
00:29:53,875 --> 00:29:55,955
same arrangement,
the same thing,
556
00:29:56,002 --> 00:29:57,632
he just didn't have
my voice on it.
557
00:29:57,670 --> 00:30:01,760
The records that he's making,
they're not Crystals records,
558
00:30:01,758 --> 00:30:03,718
they're not
Darlene Love records.
559
00:30:03,718 --> 00:30:05,548
They're Phil Spector records.
560
00:30:05,553 --> 00:30:07,933
The producer becomes
bigger than the stars,
561
00:30:07,972 --> 00:30:10,232
you know, the producer becomes
bigger than the hits,
562
00:30:10,266 --> 00:30:11,976
the producer is the hit.
563
00:30:11,976 --> 00:30:15,226
And he's dominating
the American music scene
564
00:30:15,271 --> 00:30:16,861
with the wall of sound.
565
00:30:19,025 --> 00:30:21,605
There really wasn't
any particular artist
566
00:30:21,653 --> 00:30:22,863
we were writing for.
567
00:30:22,862 --> 00:30:26,162
Whoever was next
up for a release of a single
568
00:30:26,157 --> 00:30:27,197
would get the next song.
569
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,580
And he asked me
if I wanted to dance
570
00:30:29,577 --> 00:30:31,537
[Russ] That's what made him
such a big star,
571
00:30:31,538 --> 00:30:34,538
that he was the creator
of this sound.
572
00:30:34,541 --> 00:30:36,881
The wall of sound
was having the cacophony
573
00:30:36,918 --> 00:30:40,128
of four piano players
playing the same part,
574
00:30:40,129 --> 00:30:43,259
and five guitar players playing
the same part,
575
00:30:43,299 --> 00:30:44,589
but expanding it.
576
00:30:44,592 --> 00:30:47,472
And I used to say,
"We're the mud of his records."
577
00:30:48,346 --> 00:30:50,516
We were at a studio
called Gold Star,
578
00:30:50,515 --> 00:30:52,555
and Gold Star
had an echo chamber
579
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,060
that was one of the keys
to their sound there.
580
00:30:56,062 --> 00:30:58,112
And if you knew
how to use it right--
581
00:30:58,147 --> 00:31:04,067
and he did-- it just expanded
the sound, you know, tenfold.
582
00:31:06,573 --> 00:31:08,323
Phil would say,
"Well, let's try this,
583
00:31:08,366 --> 00:31:09,826
"let's bounce this over here
584
00:31:09,826 --> 00:31:11,196
to this track,
or bounce it here."
585
00:31:11,202 --> 00:31:13,872
And we'd go in the booth
and listen to the playback,
586
00:31:13,913 --> 00:31:17,253
and it was amazing
what he was able to do
587
00:31:17,250 --> 00:31:17,960
with those tracks.
588
00:31:17,959 --> 00:31:20,169
And then he kissed me
589
00:31:20,169 --> 00:31:24,839
All those hit records have that
full, almost symphonic sound.
590
00:31:24,883 --> 00:31:28,393
He was like the master
of that style.
591
00:31:30,430 --> 00:31:33,810
[Jeff] I believe in a way
he was on stage.
592
00:31:33,850 --> 00:31:36,020
It was his theater.
593
00:31:36,019 --> 00:31:37,939
I mean, you have
to have control
594
00:31:37,937 --> 00:31:40,727
as the director
of a project.
595
00:31:40,773 --> 00:31:44,403
He revered the musicians,
he respected the musicians.
596
00:31:44,402 --> 00:31:46,912
The singers,
who essentially were kids,
597
00:31:46,905 --> 00:31:47,985
you know, they were--
598
00:31:48,031 --> 00:31:49,991
La La Brooks I think
was 15, 16,
599
00:31:50,033 --> 00:31:51,163
when she recorded
"Then He Kissed Me."
600
00:31:51,159 --> 00:31:54,829
Then he asked me
to be his bride
601
00:31:54,829 --> 00:31:57,119
He certainly was the one
602
00:31:57,123 --> 00:31:59,923
who demanded attention,
and he got it.
603
00:31:59,959 --> 00:32:04,799
I almost cried,
and then he kissed me
604
00:32:04,797 --> 00:32:08,427
Maybe that's what he was doing,
trying to outshine the artist,
605
00:32:08,426 --> 00:32:10,346
and try to control them
contractually
606
00:32:10,386 --> 00:32:11,926
in every other way,
607
00:32:11,971 --> 00:32:15,061
and that he was the star
and not them.
608
00:32:15,058 --> 00:32:17,558
He was never really
that rude with the musicians.
609
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,060
He could be a bit terse,
but we had a sense of humor
610
00:32:20,063 --> 00:32:21,813
and we'd give it back
to him, you know.
611
00:32:21,814 --> 00:32:25,324
But sometimes the way he spoke
to some of the girl singers,
612
00:32:25,318 --> 00:32:29,988
he was really rude, you know,
which really used to bother me.
613
00:32:30,657 --> 00:32:33,617
They didn't like it,
but they would take the rudeness
614
00:32:33,660 --> 00:32:35,950
because he knew--
at the bottom line,
615
00:32:35,995 --> 00:32:36,995
they were getting paid.
616
00:32:36,996 --> 00:32:42,456
And then he kissed me
617
00:32:43,086 --> 00:32:46,456
[Jeff] It was kind of mean,
tell you the truth.
618
00:32:46,464 --> 00:32:50,304
He really wasn't
treating them as artists.
619
00:32:50,301 --> 00:32:52,761
They were tools.
620
00:32:52,762 --> 00:32:55,352
They weren't people
that could stand up to him
621
00:32:55,348 --> 00:32:56,598
in the way that musicians could.
622
00:32:56,599 --> 00:32:58,939
They weren't people that could
answer back to him.
623
00:32:58,977 --> 00:33:02,437
You know, the Paris Sisters,
624
00:33:02,438 --> 00:33:04,518
which were a copy of me,
625
00:33:04,524 --> 00:33:06,364
Phil played them
"To Know Him is to Love Him"
626
00:33:06,401 --> 00:33:11,111
and said, "I want you to do
whatever, you know, she did.
627
00:33:11,155 --> 00:33:13,275
That is what
I want to capture."
628
00:33:13,324 --> 00:33:15,874
The very sweet, gentle...
629
00:33:15,868 --> 00:33:17,578
I love how your eyes close
630
00:33:17,620 --> 00:33:22,040
I love how
your eyes close
631
00:33:22,041 --> 00:33:25,841
Whenever you kiss me
632
00:33:25,837 --> 00:33:28,167
The first time I heard it,
633
00:33:28,172 --> 00:33:31,302
I was driving
and it was raining,
634
00:33:31,342 --> 00:33:33,722
and I had the radio on.
635
00:33:34,637 --> 00:33:39,727
For one split second in time,
I thought it was me.
636
00:33:41,102 --> 00:33:44,942
I really thought it was me.
637
00:33:44,981 --> 00:33:50,031
And then reality came in.
638
00:33:50,028 --> 00:33:51,818
Pulled off to the side
of the road
639
00:33:51,863 --> 00:33:53,203
and started to cry,
640
00:33:53,239 --> 00:33:57,039
because I knew he had
the formula...
641
00:33:58,953 --> 00:34:01,753
and I was not a part of it.
642
00:34:01,789 --> 00:34:03,539
[clicks tongue]
643
00:34:04,417 --> 00:34:07,997
Ooh
644
00:34:08,046 --> 00:34:10,086
[Phil] Being comfortable
and reasonable,
645
00:34:10,131 --> 00:34:14,801
very important to me,
very important to me.
646
00:34:14,802 --> 00:34:17,222
Because I don't feel comfortable
with myself a lot,
647
00:34:17,263 --> 00:34:20,643
and I don't feel
reasonable a lot.
648
00:34:20,683 --> 00:34:24,153
I feel comfortable
in the studio.
649
00:34:24,187 --> 00:34:28,777
So, I sat back and said,
it's like those records.
650
00:34:29,650 --> 00:34:31,570
They were the greatest love
of my life
651
00:34:31,611 --> 00:34:33,781
when I were making them.
652
00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:36,320
I lived and breathed
those records.
653
00:34:36,365 --> 00:34:38,905
That's why I never had
relationships with anybody
654
00:34:38,951 --> 00:34:40,831
that could last.
655
00:34:40,870 --> 00:34:42,160
They were my life.
656
00:34:42,205 --> 00:34:45,415
They were more important to me
than anything.
657
00:34:45,458 --> 00:34:49,298
My songs, my records,
my li-- they were my life.
658
00:34:49,337 --> 00:34:53,007
You know, nothing competed
with them.
659
00:34:53,049 --> 00:34:55,799
[music playing]
660
00:34:56,886 --> 00:34:59,306
[male reporter] Never in
the history of popular music
661
00:34:59,347 --> 00:35:02,597
has the recording industry
been so completely in the grip
662
00:35:02,642 --> 00:35:04,352
of America's teenagers.
663
00:35:04,393 --> 00:35:06,853
This new type of music
has been described
664
00:35:06,854 --> 00:35:10,944
as the teen feel,
and the dumb sound.
665
00:35:10,942 --> 00:35:14,402
These new songs are usually
about broken romances
666
00:35:14,445 --> 00:35:16,195
and unfulfilled love.
667
00:35:16,197 --> 00:35:18,947
The lyrics are simple-minded
and repetitive.
668
00:35:18,991 --> 00:35:22,701
The sound is loud, weird,
and driving as possible.
669
00:35:22,745 --> 00:35:25,705
The singers are young
and often inexperienced.
670
00:35:25,748 --> 00:35:28,918
The new generation
has turned Tin Pan Alley
671
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,050
into "Teen" Pan Alley.
672
00:35:31,087 --> 00:35:33,797
[music continues]
673
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,970
My next guest,
Mr. Phil Spector,
674
00:35:36,008 --> 00:35:38,548
former member of the teenage
rock and roll group
675
00:35:38,594 --> 00:35:39,764
the Teddy Bears.
676
00:35:39,762 --> 00:35:41,602
Mr. Spector
is 23 years old
677
00:35:41,597 --> 00:35:44,887
and one of the most successful
songwriters in the business.
678
00:35:44,934 --> 00:35:47,854
His famous songs include
"Spanish Harlem,"
679
00:35:47,895 --> 00:35:52,355
"Secondhand Love,"
"Da Doo Ron Ron,"
680
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,440
and many others.
681
00:35:53,442 --> 00:35:57,492
Mr. Spector is the sole owner
of Philles Records,
682
00:35:57,530 --> 00:35:58,530
which is expected to gross
683
00:35:58,573 --> 00:36:00,623
two and a half million dollars
this year.
684
00:36:00,658 --> 00:36:02,788
Now, I submit,
Mr. Spector...
685
00:36:02,785 --> 00:36:05,075
-[Phil] Help me.
-...that in the long history
686
00:36:05,121 --> 00:36:11,291
of American popular music,
this is not likely to endure.
687
00:36:13,254 --> 00:36:15,514
[Carol Connors] You must
give the devil his due,
688
00:36:15,548 --> 00:36:18,338
and Phil was brilliant.
689
00:36:18,384 --> 00:36:21,894
He had everything
in the palm of his hands,
690
00:36:21,888 --> 00:36:25,978
and God, I still think today
that, as I said,
691
00:36:26,017 --> 00:36:29,557
I do think he was a genius
when it came to music.
692
00:36:29,604 --> 00:36:36,404
He would make little symphonies
and-- you know, of songs,
693
00:36:36,402 --> 00:36:40,242
and they became
like little vignettes
694
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:41,819
that all of us teenagers--
695
00:36:41,866 --> 00:36:45,036
I mean, "He's a Rebel,"
all of them.
696
00:36:45,077 --> 00:36:48,707
You know, they--
"Be My Baby."
697
00:36:48,706 --> 00:36:52,336
["Be My Baby" playing]
698
00:36:56,505 --> 00:37:02,085
The night we met,
I knew I needed you so
699
00:37:02,136 --> 00:37:04,056
The Ronettes did
"The T.N.T. Show."
700
00:37:04,096 --> 00:37:09,556
And if I had the chance,
I'd never let you go
701
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,020
Oh, what a beautiful song,
702
00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:12,190
we just loved that song.
703
00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:13,770
It was a glorious song.
704
00:37:13,814 --> 00:37:17,244
"Be My Baby,"
what a fantastic song that is,
705
00:37:17,276 --> 00:37:21,316
and an enormous hit
for Phil Spector.
706
00:37:21,364 --> 00:37:25,124
And the beginning of a,
you know, of a good run
707
00:37:25,159 --> 00:37:26,739
of Ronettes hits.
708
00:37:26,744 --> 00:37:30,834
Be my baby,
be my little baby
709
00:37:30,873 --> 00:37:33,133
Ronnie was always the smallest,
710
00:37:33,125 --> 00:37:35,875
so she had to be the loudest.
711
00:37:36,462 --> 00:37:39,302
She had to be in the middle,
you know, so she could hear
712
00:37:39,340 --> 00:37:41,130
everything that was going on
around her.
713
00:37:41,133 --> 00:37:45,393
I'll make you happy, baby,
just wait and see
714
00:37:45,388 --> 00:37:49,098
When I heard Ronnie's voice,
she just blew me away,
715
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:50,060
and her sisters.
716
00:37:50,059 --> 00:37:54,479
I saw you, I have been
waiting for you
717
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,020
I loved the Crystals' stuff,
"He's a Rebel"
718
00:37:57,024 --> 00:37:58,404
and "Da Doo Ron Ron."
719
00:37:58,401 --> 00:38:00,281
But Ronnie took it
to another place.
720
00:38:00,319 --> 00:38:02,859
So won't you be
721
00:38:02,863 --> 00:38:05,783
Be my, be my baby,
be my little baby
722
00:38:05,825 --> 00:38:07,865
And so, in short order,
the Crystals
723
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:09,580
get rather pushed
to one side,
724
00:38:09,620 --> 00:38:12,210
and the Ronettes become
the center of his attention,
725
00:38:12,206 --> 00:38:14,626
and particularly
Veronica Bennett,
726
00:38:14,667 --> 00:38:17,417
who becomes better known
eventually as Ronnie Spector.
727
00:38:17,461 --> 00:38:21,301
[Nedra] Phil had his eye
on Ronnie from the beginning.
728
00:38:22,258 --> 00:38:24,338
I didn't have a problem.
729
00:38:24,343 --> 00:38:25,933
Don't look at me.
[laughing]
730
00:38:25,970 --> 00:38:27,720
That's-- I remember
what I was thinking.
731
00:38:27,722 --> 00:38:30,222
Just don't even look this way.
732
00:38:30,224 --> 00:38:31,894
But, you know,
733
00:38:31,934 --> 00:38:34,444
unfortunately
he was married, so...
734
00:38:34,437 --> 00:38:36,307
And the first night
we walked in,
735
00:38:36,314 --> 00:38:38,484
it was just him
sitting at the piano.
736
00:38:38,524 --> 00:38:40,614
And he looked at me,
and I looked at him,
737
00:38:40,609 --> 00:38:41,859
it was like eye contact,
738
00:38:41,861 --> 00:38:43,821
and he says,
"Well, sing me some song."
739
00:38:43,821 --> 00:38:44,951
And I started singing...
740
00:38:44,989 --> 00:38:48,279
Why do birds sing
so gay
741
00:38:48,284 --> 00:38:49,334
And Phil stopped,
he said,
742
00:38:49,368 --> 00:38:51,448
"That's the voice
I've been looking for!"
743
00:38:51,454 --> 00:38:55,294
Be my, be my baby,
be my little baby
744
00:38:55,333 --> 00:38:59,053
My one and only baby,
ohh
745
00:38:59,086 --> 00:39:02,876
[Mick] At this point Phil wasn't
entirely without female company.
746
00:39:02,923 --> 00:39:05,803
He had got married in New York,
747
00:39:05,843 --> 00:39:09,853
this very pretty
elfin-looking young girl
748
00:39:09,847 --> 00:39:11,217
called Annette Merar.
749
00:39:11,265 --> 00:39:13,425
He obviously loved
Annette greatly.
750
00:39:13,476 --> 00:39:16,146
And after he'd betrayed her
terribly, of course,
751
00:39:16,187 --> 00:39:17,357
she still spoke about him
752
00:39:17,396 --> 00:39:21,356
with a tremendous sort
of affection.
753
00:39:21,359 --> 00:39:23,029
[Annette] Phil had
the other qualities
754
00:39:23,027 --> 00:39:24,947
of charisma,
and charm, and humor,
755
00:39:24,945 --> 00:39:27,615
and I've always liked
geniuses, and poets,
756
00:39:27,615 --> 00:39:29,825
and things like that,
because I need that.
757
00:39:29,867 --> 00:39:31,037
I don't know why.
758
00:39:31,077 --> 00:39:33,537
He made my soul
just fall in love.
759
00:39:33,537 --> 00:39:35,037
[Mick] And listening
back to the tapes,
760
00:39:35,039 --> 00:39:37,169
it sort of struck me,
God, she was still--
761
00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:39,286
even though she'd obviously
made her own life,
762
00:39:39,335 --> 00:39:41,045
and married,
and had a family,
763
00:39:41,087 --> 00:39:42,507
there's a part of her
that's still--
764
00:39:42,546 --> 00:39:43,876
was still in love
with Phil, you know,
765
00:39:43,881 --> 00:39:45,131
had never fallen out of love
with Phil.
766
00:39:45,132 --> 00:39:48,552
And it's a sign
of the love he had for her
767
00:39:48,552 --> 00:39:53,272
that on the runout groove
of the records
768
00:39:53,265 --> 00:39:56,685
he would put "Phil + Annette."
769
00:39:56,685 --> 00:40:00,225
And the first record that
that didn't appear on
770
00:40:00,272 --> 00:40:03,532
was "Be My Baby"
by The Ronettes.
771
00:40:03,526 --> 00:40:06,316
[Nedra] When I found out
he was married, I was like,
772
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:07,700
this is wrong.
773
00:40:07,738 --> 00:40:11,158
We just grew up with
certain things you don't do.
774
00:40:11,158 --> 00:40:14,908
God-- you don't get blessed
when you do wrong.
775
00:40:14,954 --> 00:40:18,124
The way he acted
toward his wife,
776
00:40:18,124 --> 00:40:20,044
I just felt bad.
777
00:40:20,042 --> 00:40:23,052
Phil was not even
Ronnie's type.
778
00:40:24,255 --> 00:40:25,665
He had a lot of insecurity
779
00:40:25,714 --> 00:40:30,224
because of his stature
and things like that.
780
00:40:30,261 --> 00:40:33,561
So, why would you look,
781
00:40:33,556 --> 00:40:37,176
except you see something
that you can get out of it?
782
00:40:37,643 --> 00:40:41,773
[Mick] Ronnie I think
wanted to be a star.
783
00:40:41,772 --> 00:40:44,982
She wanted to be famous,
she wanted to be successful.
784
00:40:44,984 --> 00:40:49,454
And Phil Spector
was her passport to that.
785
00:40:49,488 --> 00:40:52,278
[Nedra] If somebody's got
their eye on you,
786
00:40:52,324 --> 00:40:54,664
and they're older than you,
787
00:40:54,702 --> 00:40:57,162
and they're saying,
"I can do all these things,"
788
00:40:57,163 --> 00:41:00,123
you could see where
that's a big pull.
789
00:41:00,166 --> 00:41:03,496
But you don't know what
you're getting pulled into.
790
00:41:06,088 --> 00:41:08,968
[Mick] In Phil Spector's case,
the selfishness,
791
00:41:08,966 --> 00:41:11,046
the way he handles
these situations,
792
00:41:11,093 --> 00:41:13,433
I think this sort of shows
a pattern.
793
00:41:13,429 --> 00:41:14,969
It was pretty common
at that point
794
00:41:14,972 --> 00:41:16,222
and recurred throughout.
795
00:41:16,265 --> 00:41:20,185
You know, there were people
who were useful to him,
796
00:41:20,186 --> 00:41:24,146
who he could use
and then dispense with.
797
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:31,530
This, I think, goes to one
of the most unpleasant traits
798
00:41:31,530 --> 00:41:34,070
Spector would exhibit
throughout his life,
799
00:41:34,116 --> 00:41:36,946
is seeing people as disposable.
800
00:41:38,496 --> 00:41:40,536
Women, in particular.
801
00:41:42,166 --> 00:41:46,996
[Phil] I controlled everything
in this instance.
802
00:41:47,046 --> 00:41:50,166
I was a control freak.
803
00:41:50,216 --> 00:41:52,296
You have to conquer yourself,
you know,
804
00:41:52,343 --> 00:41:58,183
you have to really...
control your own self.
805
00:42:04,522 --> 00:42:09,902
I have devils inside
that fight me,
806
00:42:09,902 --> 00:42:11,822
and I'm my own worst enemy.
807
00:42:11,820 --> 00:42:14,780
For all intents and purposes,
I'd say I'm probably
808
00:42:14,823 --> 00:42:16,953
relatively insane.
809
00:42:16,951 --> 00:42:18,241
[Mick] It felt extraordinary.
810
00:42:18,244 --> 00:42:21,464
It felt almost as if I was at
a confessional in some way.
811
00:42:21,455 --> 00:42:23,165
I mean, he hadn't spoken for--
812
00:42:23,207 --> 00:42:25,417
not given a formal
sit-down interview
813
00:42:25,459 --> 00:42:27,959
for 20, 25 years.
814
00:42:27,962 --> 00:42:29,342
And the last thing
I'd expected
815
00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:32,130
was that he would speak
with quite as much candor
816
00:42:32,132 --> 00:42:35,302
and quite as much honesty
as he did,
817
00:42:35,302 --> 00:42:39,772
and with a sort of revelation
of really naked, naked emotion.
818
00:42:43,894 --> 00:42:46,654
At the end of the day
as the sun was going down,
819
00:42:46,647 --> 00:42:48,727
I came away from that interview
just thinking
820
00:42:48,774 --> 00:42:51,324
this was-- this was just
extraordinary.
821
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,530
You know, my final
sort of words really there
822
00:42:53,571 --> 00:42:57,281
with Spector's
personal assistant...
823
00:42:58,325 --> 00:43:00,235
you know, "We'd love to see
a copy of the article
824
00:43:00,286 --> 00:43:02,286
when it comes out,"
and so I said, of course.
825
00:43:02,329 --> 00:43:04,289
As soon as the early binds
came into the office,
826
00:43:04,331 --> 00:43:07,331
I had some FedEx-ed
over to Spector's house
827
00:43:07,334 --> 00:43:11,214
so that he would be able
to read it at the same time
828
00:43:11,213 --> 00:43:13,093
as it was being published
in Britain
829
00:43:13,090 --> 00:43:15,220
on the Saturday morning.
830
00:43:15,259 --> 00:43:17,389
The Monday afterwards,
I happened to be
831
00:43:17,386 --> 00:43:18,886
in the telegraph office,
832
00:43:18,887 --> 00:43:21,807
and somebody came down
from upstairs and said,
833
00:43:21,849 --> 00:43:25,269
"What did you write
to upset Phil Spector?"
834
00:43:26,145 --> 00:43:27,975
I said, "Why, what do you mean?"
835
00:43:28,022 --> 00:43:29,442
"Well, turn on
the television."
836
00:43:29,481 --> 00:43:31,651
We turned on the television,
837
00:43:31,692 --> 00:43:33,572
and there was the sort of--
838
00:43:33,611 --> 00:43:35,901
the classic sort of
helicopter shot
839
00:43:35,904 --> 00:43:40,454
of the Pyrenees Castle
where I'd interviewed him
840
00:43:40,492 --> 00:43:42,372
four or five weeks earlier,
841
00:43:42,411 --> 00:43:46,001
this time bound round
with yellow police tape,
842
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,630
squad cars with their lights,
you know, flashing on top,
843
00:43:50,628 --> 00:43:52,208
detectives in boxy suits
844
00:43:52,254 --> 00:43:54,134
sort of moving
in and out of the house,
845
00:43:54,131 --> 00:43:57,721
and the news that
an unidentified woman
846
00:43:57,718 --> 00:44:01,258
had been found shot dead
in Phil Spector's home.
847
00:44:02,014 --> 00:44:05,354
And I looked at Casper,
848
00:44:05,392 --> 00:44:07,022
the editor who'd commissioned
the piece,
849
00:44:07,061 --> 00:44:10,441
and he looked at me, and we both
had exactly the same thought.
850
00:44:10,439 --> 00:44:14,779
My God, he's read the piece,
the piece has set him off,
851
00:44:14,818 --> 00:44:16,778
and he shot
his personal assistant.
852
00:44:16,820 --> 00:44:22,240
That was our thought,
that he'd sort of just gone--
853
00:44:22,284 --> 00:44:24,164
that he'd flipped reading this.
854
00:44:25,245 --> 00:44:30,205
[Nicole] I was in a class
about magical realism.
855
00:44:30,209 --> 00:44:31,539
We were reading something,
856
00:44:31,543 --> 00:44:32,963
and I don't know what it was.
857
00:44:32,961 --> 00:44:34,001
I wish I could remember.
858
00:44:34,046 --> 00:44:36,626
But there was this line
859
00:44:36,632 --> 00:44:37,802
that she kept repeating.
860
00:44:37,841 --> 00:44:41,471
She kept saying,
"They took my father.
861
00:44:41,470 --> 00:44:42,600
They took my father."
862
00:44:42,596 --> 00:44:45,466
Like, she kept being like,
"I want you to feel this line."
863
00:44:45,516 --> 00:44:46,676
And this woman showed up.
864
00:44:46,684 --> 00:44:48,564
She, like, ducked
into the classroom
865
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:49,900
and pulled me out.
866
00:44:49,895 --> 00:44:52,355
And my immediate thought was
that one of my parents was dead.
867
00:44:52,356 --> 00:44:56,566
I was very attached
to my parents.
868
00:44:56,610 --> 00:44:58,400
I was shaking,
I was so scared,
869
00:44:58,445 --> 00:45:00,855
'cause I-- that was always
my biggest fear.
870
00:45:00,864 --> 00:45:02,914
And first, she was like,
"Your mom's okay,
871
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:03,910
your dad's okay."
872
00:45:03,951 --> 00:45:05,951
And I was just like,
"Oh my God, thank God."
873
00:45:05,953 --> 00:45:11,383
And then she says,
"But, like, something happened.
874
00:45:11,375 --> 00:45:13,535
"A woman died
at your dad's house,
875
00:45:13,585 --> 00:45:14,835
"and it's all over the news.
876
00:45:14,837 --> 00:45:16,837
"We need to get you out
right now.
877
00:45:19,508 --> 00:45:21,928
"We don't know who it was,
we don't know anything yet.
878
00:45:21,969 --> 00:45:25,759
"But you know, like,
you should probably
879
00:45:25,806 --> 00:45:27,386
stay out of school for now."
880
00:45:27,433 --> 00:45:28,893
You know, I'm like,
"Where's my father?"
881
00:45:28,892 --> 00:45:30,692
And they're like,
"They took your father."
882
00:45:30,686 --> 00:45:31,896
And I'm like,
just thinking, like,
883
00:45:31,937 --> 00:45:33,557
"They took my father,
they took my father,"
884
00:45:33,564 --> 00:45:37,654
from this class, this line
my professor kept reciting.
885
00:45:37,693 --> 00:45:41,663
So, she took me
to a coffee shop.
886
00:45:41,655 --> 00:45:42,865
The news was on,
and it was like
887
00:45:42,906 --> 00:45:45,446
this, like, big circus
was happening
888
00:45:45,451 --> 00:45:46,371
at my dad's house,
889
00:45:46,410 --> 00:45:50,540
and I was just like
in total disbelief.
890
00:45:50,581 --> 00:45:53,711
It was just very surreal.
891
00:45:53,709 --> 00:45:58,049
It was-- it was bad
magical realism.
892
00:45:58,630 --> 00:46:00,840
[Paul] We anticipated
it was gonna be a media show.
893
00:46:00,841 --> 00:46:02,681
We knew that
going into that.
894
00:46:02,718 --> 00:46:04,848
It was a media circus,
it was insane.
895
00:46:04,845 --> 00:46:06,465
[Charles Gibson] Phil Spector,
who helped define
896
00:46:06,513 --> 00:46:09,483
rock and roll music,
was arrested Monday
897
00:46:09,475 --> 00:46:10,975
shortly after a dead woman
was found...
898
00:46:11,018 --> 00:46:13,228
[reporter 2] Known as much
for his bizarre behavior
899
00:46:13,228 --> 00:46:15,478
as for his musical genius.
900
00:46:16,815 --> 00:46:18,565
[Richard] We were receiving
phone calls
901
00:46:18,567 --> 00:46:21,067
while we were in the midst
of our investigation
902
00:46:21,069 --> 00:46:25,239
that this thing
was on all the news channels.
903
00:46:25,991 --> 00:46:29,241
At the time, the general feeling
in Los Angeles
904
00:46:29,244 --> 00:46:32,294
was that no celebrity
905
00:46:32,331 --> 00:46:34,331
would ever be convicted
of anything.
906
00:46:34,374 --> 00:46:36,884
You know, you're on the heels
of the OJ trial,
907
00:46:36,919 --> 00:46:40,799
you're on the heels
of the Robert Blake trials.
908
00:46:41,590 --> 00:46:45,090
You know, he's someone also
who's always used
909
00:46:45,135 --> 00:46:47,005
to being in charge.
910
00:46:47,012 --> 00:46:50,432
Coming into this,
that was at the top of my mind--
911
00:46:50,474 --> 00:46:53,394
some big producer right now
that is--
912
00:46:53,393 --> 00:46:55,403
they're looking at for murder.
913
00:46:55,395 --> 00:46:59,355
So, here we go,
here comes the next OJ trial.
914
00:47:02,361 --> 00:47:04,781
The interesting thing was,
we did not know
915
00:47:04,822 --> 00:47:06,242
who the victim was.
916
00:47:06,281 --> 00:47:09,581
We later on received
a phone call
917
00:47:09,576 --> 00:47:12,326
from an individual
from the House of Blues
918
00:47:12,371 --> 00:47:14,501
who stated that he had seen
Phil Spector
919
00:47:14,540 --> 00:47:18,000
leave with his coworker,
Lana Clarkson.
920
00:47:18,001 --> 00:47:20,551
[reporter] The victim,
a beautiful B-movie actress
921
00:47:20,587 --> 00:47:24,797
named Lana Clarkson,
with 17 movie appearances
922
00:47:24,842 --> 00:47:26,552
and her own website.
923
00:47:26,552 --> 00:47:28,302
[reporter 2] Lana Clarkson
was writing a book,
924
00:47:28,345 --> 00:47:29,845
according to reports,
about the men
925
00:47:29,888 --> 00:47:31,388
she's known in Hollywood.
926
00:47:31,431 --> 00:47:33,311
First reports say
she and Spector
927
00:47:33,308 --> 00:47:34,518
hadn't met before.
928
00:47:34,518 --> 00:47:36,558
That is now in doubt,
some sources saying
929
00:47:36,562 --> 00:47:38,362
they had known each other
for some time.
930
00:47:38,397 --> 00:47:40,437
[Nicole] The next day
of the event,
931
00:47:40,482 --> 00:47:44,612
my dad called me
and was like, "Hey, I'm okay,
932
00:47:44,653 --> 00:47:46,863
"you know, I'm fine.
933
00:47:47,739 --> 00:47:50,869
Don't worry about me,
you know, keep your chin up."
934
00:47:50,909 --> 00:47:52,699
He just wanted me to know
he was okay,
935
00:47:52,703 --> 00:47:54,043
everything was gonna be okay,
936
00:47:54,079 --> 00:47:55,959
there was this huge
misunderstanding,
937
00:47:55,956 --> 00:47:57,536
and it was getting worked out.
938
00:47:57,583 --> 00:48:00,793
I didn't-- I didn't have
any questions for him
939
00:48:00,794 --> 00:48:03,094
other, like, than,
"Are you okay?"
940
00:48:04,298 --> 00:48:08,638
It never seemed a possibility
941
00:48:08,677 --> 00:48:10,967
that he would have actually
murdered someone.
942
00:48:11,013 --> 00:48:12,313
We would sometimes
have conversations
943
00:48:12,306 --> 00:48:14,516
where he'd be like, "I don't
know what the fuck's going on,
944
00:48:14,558 --> 00:48:16,138
"like, this woman
came into my house.
945
00:48:16,184 --> 00:48:22,114
Apparently, she shot herself,"
and, you know,
946
00:48:22,149 --> 00:48:24,359
he was baffled.
947
00:48:24,359 --> 00:48:27,149
We have to be fair
to Phil Spector
948
00:48:27,195 --> 00:48:29,565
and his allegation.
949
00:48:29,615 --> 00:48:32,575
We have to go
through Lana Clarkson.
950
00:48:35,871 --> 00:48:37,871
[Paul] There were pieces
of her teeth
951
00:48:37,873 --> 00:48:41,593
that she had--
her two front teeth
952
00:48:41,585 --> 00:48:45,875
had been blown out
during this gunshot,
953
00:48:45,881 --> 00:48:49,131
and they were found
on the floor,
954
00:48:49,176 --> 00:48:51,796
and I believe a piece was even
all the way to the stairway--
955
00:48:51,803 --> 00:48:54,853
again, maybe 10, 12 feet away.
956
00:48:54,848 --> 00:48:56,518
There was a couple
of bloody towels.
957
00:48:56,558 --> 00:48:59,138
One was actually--
it turned out to be a diaper.
958
00:49:00,437 --> 00:49:01,977
Ultimately it was collected.
959
00:49:01,980 --> 00:49:04,940
Ultimately it was turned over
to the crime lab.
960
00:49:06,818 --> 00:49:07,988
There was a lot of evidence,
961
00:49:08,028 --> 00:49:11,448
but there was no
definitive proof of anything.
962
00:49:15,077 --> 00:49:17,367
Now, again,
you have to look at someone's--
963
00:49:17,412 --> 00:49:19,712
you know, that day,
their past,
964
00:49:19,748 --> 00:49:23,248
how they've been, their moods,
what occurred at work.
965
00:49:23,251 --> 00:49:25,551
You know, you gotta go with all
these little bits and pieces.
966
00:49:25,545 --> 00:49:27,835
Is someone suicidal,
are they not?
967
00:49:27,839 --> 00:49:29,969
Like, how do you determine that?
968
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:33,390
It has to be
by what they call
969
00:49:33,387 --> 00:49:37,097
this forensic look
at her life.
970
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:46,480
I'm sorry
that I met you
971
00:49:48,902 --> 00:49:55,452
Now I only just regret you
972
00:49:55,450 --> 00:49:59,120
I remember the night
973
00:49:59,121 --> 00:50:03,671
When you first
held me tight
974
00:50:03,667 --> 00:50:10,717
Ohh, now I'm sorry
that I met you
975
00:50:13,552 --> 00:50:18,892
I was lost
in the hurricane
976
00:50:18,890 --> 00:50:21,770
La-la-la, la-la-la
977
00:50:21,810 --> 00:50:27,070
All my friends
thought I was insane
978
00:50:27,065 --> 00:50:28,975
La-la-la, la-la-la-la
979
00:50:29,026 --> 00:50:32,146
You knew me when
980
00:50:32,154 --> 00:50:36,664
We were both
just friends
981
00:50:36,658 --> 00:50:42,748
But I knew that
I'd love you till the end
982
00:50:46,960 --> 00:52:10,170
I'm sorry that I met you...
123449
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