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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:06,172 --> 00:00:09,012                [music]               2 00:00:55,930 --> 00:00:57,850     [Paul Fournier] The Alhambra          Police Department was armed     3 00:00:57,891 --> 00:01:00,061       with limited information.      4 00:01:01,186 --> 00:01:03,306            They just know                  that a gunshot occurred.       5 00:01:03,354 --> 00:01:05,984  They didn't know anything else--              who was shot.            6 00:01:05,982 --> 00:01:09,612             So, they made                      a tactical entry,          7 00:01:09,611 --> 00:01:11,701        and then at one point,                 one of the officers         8 00:01:11,738 --> 00:01:13,698           made a very good,                     sound decision,           9 00:01:13,698 --> 00:01:15,988          and set a personal                  tape recorder he had         10 00:01:15,992 --> 00:01:19,292           on the banister,                       and recorded             11 00:01:19,329 --> 00:01:22,869         what I felt was some             pretty telltaling statements     12 00:01:22,916 --> 00:01:25,086              by Spector.             13 00:02:35,989 --> 00:02:38,779                [music]               14 00:02:48,251 --> 00:02:52,171         Daydreaming 'bout you       15 00:02:52,172 --> 00:02:56,222          So glad I found you        16 00:02:56,217 --> 00:02:59,347         I was lost without you      17 00:02:59,345 --> 00:03:04,055                I'll sing                        a little louder           18 00:03:04,058 --> 00:03:07,728          So glad I found you        19 00:03:07,770 --> 00:03:11,360                I was lost                         without you             20 00:03:11,357 --> 00:03:15,857                I'll sing                        a little louder           21 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:23,700         [helicopter whirring]        22 00:03:27,207 --> 00:03:28,827      [Paul] As an investigator,      23 00:03:28,875 --> 00:03:32,045         our job is to obtain                  as much information         24 00:03:32,086 --> 00:03:33,756           from every source                      that we can,             25 00:03:33,796 --> 00:03:35,836         any eyewitnesses that               would have been there,        26 00:03:35,882 --> 00:03:38,762           and then collect                    physical evidence.          27 00:03:40,011 --> 00:03:42,431    [Richard Tomlin] As we walk in           through the front door,       28 00:03:42,430 --> 00:03:46,730        we see the actual scene                 of the shooting.           29 00:03:49,896 --> 00:03:52,896        [Paul] A very beautiful                    young lady              30 00:03:52,941 --> 00:03:56,491        was lying in the chair,           the position that she was in     31 00:03:56,486 --> 00:03:58,356          when she was shot.          32 00:03:59,948 --> 00:04:03,238            She had a purse                 slung over her shoulder.       33 00:04:03,993 --> 00:04:08,163          Her legs were out,             stretched out in front of her,    34 00:04:08,164 --> 00:04:10,254     and the gun was on the floor.    35 00:04:14,337 --> 00:04:16,167       [Richard] At that point,               I really didn't know         36 00:04:16,172 --> 00:04:17,342         who Phil Spector was.        37 00:04:17,340 --> 00:04:21,760           I was gonna learn                    a lot about him.           38 00:04:22,929 --> 00:04:24,599            [man] He seemed                     like a quiet man.          39 00:04:24,639 --> 00:04:25,849      I really have only seen him     40 00:04:25,890 --> 00:04:27,560           maybe about four                       or five times            41 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,730        come by in his Prowler.       42 00:04:30,770 --> 00:04:32,360      [man] The Alhambra officers                   conducted              43 00:04:32,397 --> 00:04:35,277          a very preliminary                     investigation,            44 00:04:35,275 --> 00:04:36,895  and based on that investigation,  45 00:04:36,943 --> 00:04:39,323         they took Mr. Spector                    into custody.            46 00:04:41,364 --> 00:04:43,324    [male reporter] He was a ghost,               a phantom,              47 00:04:43,324 --> 00:04:45,954     a half-forgotten rock genius.    48 00:04:46,452 --> 00:04:48,372    [female reporter] And he almost        never talks to the media,      49 00:04:48,371 --> 00:04:50,501            but just weeks                    before the incident,         50 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:54,420           he spoke candidly              to a journalist, Mick Brown.     51 00:04:56,087 --> 00:04:58,967          [stovetop clicking]         52 00:04:59,507 --> 00:05:02,837       [Mick Brown] Yeah, I knew         a fair bit about Phil Spector.    53 00:05:02,885 --> 00:05:04,215     For people of my generation,     54 00:05:04,262 --> 00:05:07,142         people who care about                   rock and roll,            55 00:05:07,140 --> 00:05:09,350      he was a legendary figure.      56 00:05:09,392 --> 00:05:12,192          He was responsible                    for the Crystals           57 00:05:12,228 --> 00:05:13,808           and the Ronettes,          58 00:05:13,855 --> 00:05:15,725  and then the Righteous Brothers,               of course,              59 00:05:15,732 --> 00:05:17,822           and Tina Turner.           60 00:05:18,943 --> 00:05:21,533       He produced the Beatles'                   final album.             61 00:05:24,282 --> 00:05:25,492       For a so-called recluse,       62 00:05:25,533 --> 00:05:27,623             for somebody                   who'd had this reputation      63 00:05:27,660 --> 00:05:30,750       for being wacko or crazy,      64 00:05:30,747 --> 00:05:35,037     he was extraordinarily candid         and extraordinarily honest.     65 00:05:35,835 --> 00:05:39,165          It was almost as if                   he'd been waiting          66 00:05:39,172 --> 00:05:41,842         for a moment to talk.        67 00:05:43,092 --> 00:05:44,932          And so, I came away                  from that interview         68 00:05:44,927 --> 00:05:46,427             just thinking                        this was one             69 00:05:46,429 --> 00:05:49,139       of the most extraordinary             interviews of my life.        70 00:05:49,182 --> 00:05:51,642       And as it would turn out,      71 00:05:51,642 --> 00:05:53,852       one of the most fateful.       72 00:05:57,482 --> 00:05:59,442             It was, what,                  four or five weeks later       73 00:05:59,484 --> 00:06:02,404          that Lana Clarkson                      was murdered.            74 00:06:06,324 --> 00:06:09,044          I remember getting                     to Alhambra...            75 00:06:11,037 --> 00:06:15,167                turning                     into the electronic gate,      76 00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:16,538         and the car stopped.         77 00:06:16,542 --> 00:06:20,762          And the chauffeur,                    Adriano de Souza,          78 00:06:20,755 --> 00:06:22,915     as I subsequently discovered,    79 00:06:22,924 --> 00:06:25,304          said, "Mr. Spector                likes people to walk up."      80 00:06:25,301 --> 00:06:28,101           [gate squeaking]           81 00:06:37,939 --> 00:06:39,319        There's a sort of sense       82 00:06:39,357 --> 00:06:41,937     of sort of baronial splendor                   about it.              83 00:06:42,985 --> 00:06:46,235         And there was a long,               long flight of stairs.        84 00:06:46,239 --> 00:06:48,029     Eighty-eight steps leading up    85 00:06:48,074 --> 00:06:51,124     through these lowering pines                 and trees...             86 00:06:52,412 --> 00:06:54,622       to the castle at the top.      87 00:06:54,622 --> 00:06:57,422           [doors creaking]           88 00:07:16,269 --> 00:07:19,269     And I set up my tape recorder          on the table between us,       89 00:07:19,313 --> 00:07:21,983     and then he started to talk.     90 00:07:22,024 --> 00:07:24,244            Testing, testing,                   one, two, three, four.       91 00:07:24,235 --> 00:07:27,605        When did you first realize               you were different?         92 00:07:27,613 --> 00:07:30,953          [Phil]   Very young.                        Very young.             93 00:07:31,826 --> 00:07:35,196        Very young, yeah, I was...     94 00:07:35,246 --> 00:07:38,166            just always real--                  always was different.        95 00:07:40,126 --> 00:07:43,496         [Mick] Phil was born                 in New York in 1939,         96 00:07:43,504 --> 00:07:47,884          and his father Ben                   was an iron worker.         97 00:07:47,925 --> 00:07:49,505            Mother, Bertha.           98 00:07:49,510 --> 00:07:52,180      And he had an elder sister                 called Shirley.           99 00:07:57,643 --> 00:08:00,233             It seems that                    he was a happy child.        100 00:08:00,229 --> 00:08:02,319        There didn't seem to be            any trouble in the family.      101 00:08:02,315 --> 00:08:05,985      But then, when he was nine,         this terrible thing happened.    102 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,990     His father drove off to work                one morning...            103 00:08:16,287 --> 00:08:17,907       parked on a side street.       104 00:08:17,955 --> 00:08:20,495           [engine starting]          105 00:08:21,167 --> 00:08:23,957         He'd connected a tube                  from his exhaust           106 00:08:24,003 --> 00:08:26,713             into the car,                   and self-asphyxiation.        107 00:08:28,549 --> 00:08:30,509            And obviously,                      this was the bomb          108 00:08:30,510 --> 00:08:33,220             that went off                   in Phil Spector's life.       109 00:08:35,014 --> 00:08:37,484        [Phil]   And I don't like                     talking so--            110 00:08:37,475 --> 00:08:40,015               I don't like                    talking about the past.       111 00:08:40,061 --> 00:08:43,191          It's difficult for me.                   Difficult time.           112 00:08:45,399 --> 00:08:48,569        With, like, losing my dad,           it was very, very emotional.    113 00:08:48,569 --> 00:08:51,739           Oh, I was too young                      to understand            114 00:08:51,739 --> 00:08:55,739           the value of losing                      my dad, and...           115 00:08:55,785 --> 00:08:57,745     [Mick]   But you're old enough      to feel the loss and to feel...    116 00:08:57,745 --> 00:09:00,575       [Phil]   Old enough to feel            the loss, but not old enough    117 00:09:00,623 --> 00:09:04,753          to appreciate the loss               until I was much older.       118 00:09:07,129 --> 00:09:10,629          It's very, very, very,                 very, very painful.         119 00:09:10,633 --> 00:09:14,553           [Nicole Spector]               When my dad's father died...     120 00:09:15,930 --> 00:09:17,430    you know, my dad was very much    121 00:09:17,473 --> 00:09:18,983            shaped by that.           122 00:09:19,016 --> 00:09:22,056          And it was a trauma         123 00:09:22,103 --> 00:09:24,113      that I don't think was ever     124 00:09:24,146 --> 00:09:26,566      really hands-on dealt with.     125 00:09:26,566 --> 00:09:28,226    I think growing up back then--    126 00:09:28,276 --> 00:09:31,486        this is like, you know,                    late '40s--             127 00:09:31,529 --> 00:09:33,109       there wasn't such a thing                    as, like,              128 00:09:33,155 --> 00:09:34,565      "send your kid to therapy,"     129 00:09:34,574 --> 00:09:37,494           or whatever kind                   of coping mechanisms         130 00:09:37,535 --> 00:09:39,075          we may promote now.         131 00:09:39,078 --> 00:09:42,248         We don't know why Ben                   killed himself.           132 00:09:42,290 --> 00:09:44,540     But I think there's a very--            there's some suggestion       133 00:09:44,542 --> 00:09:47,172          there may have been                    money worries.            134 00:09:47,169 --> 00:09:49,759       But more plausible to me                    is the idea             135 00:09:49,797 --> 00:09:54,467         that he was suffering                mentally in some way,        136 00:09:54,510 --> 00:09:56,220         perhaps was bipolar.         137 00:09:56,220 --> 00:09:59,810          And one thinks that                   because Shirley,           138 00:09:59,807 --> 00:10:03,267       Phil's sister, then began          to manifest a mental illness.    139 00:10:03,269 --> 00:10:06,649        She, in fact, ended up             in and out of institutions.     140 00:10:06,689 --> 00:10:09,029            When your emotions                  control your actions,        141 00:10:09,066 --> 00:10:13,276      it affects not only yourself,           but the people around you.     142 00:10:14,739 --> 00:10:16,529          [Mick] The dynamic                    within the family          143 00:10:16,574 --> 00:10:18,624    was clearly very dysfunctional,  144 00:10:18,659 --> 00:10:21,789           where the mother                      and the sister            145 00:10:21,787 --> 00:10:24,537         alternately smothered                  and bullied Phil.          146 00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:26,330     And in a way, it was like a--    147 00:10:26,375 --> 00:10:29,085           became like a tag                wrestling team, you know.      148 00:10:29,128 --> 00:10:30,248          "You take Phil on."         149 00:10:30,296 --> 00:10:32,256        "No, no, it's your turn                 to take Phil on."          150 00:10:32,256 --> 00:10:35,126       And sometimes they'd both             be in the ring at him.        151 00:10:36,677 --> 00:10:40,557           It was like birds                   chirping on a wire,         152 00:10:40,598 --> 00:10:42,018            where you know,                     they'd be just...          153 00:10:42,058 --> 00:10:43,978             [vocalizing]             154 00:10:44,018 --> 00:10:46,228     Phil, of course, had his own     155 00:10:46,270 --> 00:10:48,150           terrible sort of                     mental problems.           156 00:10:48,189 --> 00:10:49,609       So, I think there's some                 suggestion there           157 00:10:49,649 --> 00:10:51,779         of hereditary illness                   in the family.            158 00:10:51,776 --> 00:10:55,316           They were broke,                    they were stranded.         159 00:10:55,321 --> 00:10:57,321          They were very much                 a blue-collar family.        160 00:10:57,365 --> 00:10:59,655         I think my dad's dad                worked in construction.       161 00:10:59,659 --> 00:11:02,199         You know, they didn't                   have resources.           162 00:11:02,203 --> 00:11:04,583              And my dad                      was very precocious,         163 00:11:04,622 --> 00:11:08,882           a very ambitious                       young person.            164 00:11:09,877 --> 00:11:12,547       And they moved out to LA,              and I think the idea         165 00:11:12,588 --> 00:11:15,468      was he's gonna make it big.     166 00:11:15,466 --> 00:11:18,796           As I lie awake...         167 00:11:18,844 --> 00:11:20,514            [Russ Titelman]                    Some people call it         168 00:11:20,513 --> 00:11:21,763    the rock-and-roll high school.    169 00:11:21,764 --> 00:11:25,314         Mo Ostin went there,                 and when I was there,        170 00:11:25,309 --> 00:11:28,189         Steve Berry was there                     at Fairfax.             171 00:11:28,229 --> 00:11:32,069             And some guy                    who was in The Safaris,       172 00:11:32,066 --> 00:11:34,236  "Image of a Girl," he was there.  173 00:11:34,235 --> 00:11:37,145       Was the image of the girl     174 00:11:37,196 --> 00:11:39,406            I ought to find          175 00:11:39,407 --> 00:11:43,537           [Phil]   You know,            timing is the key to everything.  176 00:11:43,577 --> 00:11:44,907      There's an element of luck...    177 00:11:44,912 --> 00:11:46,912             -[Mick]   Sure.                  -[Phil]   ...in everything.      178 00:11:46,914 --> 00:11:50,174             In who you are,                 where you are, what you are.    179 00:11:50,167 --> 00:11:52,287           But I call it timing        180 00:11:52,336 --> 00:11:56,416          that I happened to be                in Los Angeles in 1958.       181 00:11:56,465 --> 00:11:59,255           [Russ] I remember                the first time I met him.      182 00:11:59,301 --> 00:12:02,891      I must have been around 13.     183 00:12:02,888 --> 00:12:05,978         And as time went on,                I became very friendly        184 00:12:06,016 --> 00:12:08,096         and close with Phil.         185 00:12:08,102 --> 00:12:10,942  He was unbelievably charismatic.  186 00:12:10,980 --> 00:12:15,280         You know, very smart,             very funny, very charming.      187 00:12:15,317 --> 00:12:17,607       You know, language jokes               and things like that,        188 00:12:17,611 --> 00:12:19,281          like really sharp.          189 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:20,870      And, but then he was also,      190 00:12:20,865 --> 00:12:23,865    you know, he'd lie about things             unnecessarily.            191 00:12:23,909 --> 00:12:26,199             Like, I think                    he had an appointment        192 00:12:26,245 --> 00:12:28,405           to go somewhere,                 and we were at my house.       193 00:12:28,456 --> 00:12:29,956         He was on the phone,                   you know, saying,          194 00:12:29,957 --> 00:12:32,627    "Oh, we got in a car accident,           so I couldn't make it."       195 00:12:32,668 --> 00:12:34,338     You know, just make shit up.     196 00:12:34,378 --> 00:12:39,048               The truth                      was vague sometimes.         197 00:12:39,049 --> 00:12:41,429       He was his own creation.       198 00:12:42,303 --> 00:12:45,263            Of all the girls         199 00:12:45,306 --> 00:12:50,306            That I have met          200 00:12:50,352 --> 00:12:52,562        [Phil]   I used to think                   I was missing much         201 00:12:52,563 --> 00:12:53,863           by not being normal,        202 00:12:53,856 --> 00:12:58,606         and it sort of made life                complicated for me.         203 00:12:58,652 --> 00:12:59,902        But it made it justified.      204 00:12:59,945 --> 00:13:02,195          "Oh, there's a reason               they hate my fucking guts.     205 00:13:02,239 --> 00:13:03,949             "I look strange,                       I act strange,           206 00:13:03,991 --> 00:13:06,081        I'm making strange music,                     I make..."             207 00:13:06,076 --> 00:13:09,076           So, there's a reason                to hate my fucking guts,      208 00:13:09,121 --> 00:13:10,711          because I felt hated.        209 00:13:10,748 --> 00:13:12,708                  I felt                        completely ostracized.       210 00:13:12,708 --> 00:13:15,248       I never felt like I fit in.     211 00:13:17,838 --> 00:13:19,468  [Mick] I think it was Kim Fowley              who once said            212 00:13:19,465 --> 00:13:23,425      that rock and roll is music             made by lonely people        213 00:13:23,427 --> 00:13:24,927          for lonely people,                      in the sense             214 00:13:24,970 --> 00:13:28,470      that rock and roll is made            by people in their room.       215 00:13:28,474 --> 00:13:30,434             Phil Spector                  was very much that person.      216 00:13:30,434 --> 00:13:33,274          He was that person                      in his room.             217 00:13:33,312 --> 00:13:34,732      Started listening to music,     218 00:13:34,772 --> 00:13:39,862     particularly listened to jazz     and R&B stations in Los Angeles,  219 00:13:39,860 --> 00:13:43,490        and became tremendously              passionate about this,        220 00:13:43,489 --> 00:13:45,869     and tremendously enthusiastic                 about this.             221 00:13:45,866 --> 00:13:47,486  He didn't have a musical career,  222 00:13:47,493 --> 00:13:50,453        but he was a very good                 jazz guitar player.         223 00:13:50,454 --> 00:13:53,004         There was a community                    of musicians             224 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:57,670        that he was a part of,            and he started writing songs.    225 00:13:57,711 --> 00:14:00,971        To know, know, know him      226 00:14:00,965 --> 00:14:05,425               Is to love,                        love, love him           227 00:14:05,427 --> 00:14:09,267         Just to see him smile       228 00:14:09,306 --> 00:14:12,766              Makes my life                         worthwhile             229 00:14:12,810 --> 00:14:16,020        To know, know, know him      230 00:14:16,021 --> 00:14:19,861               Is to love,                        love, love him           231 00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:23,700                And I do,                           yes, I do              232 00:14:23,737 --> 00:14:26,617                And I do             233 00:14:26,615 --> 00:14:27,945       And Phil Spector went...       234 00:14:27,992 --> 00:14:31,792               Ba-dah-dah,                         dah-dah-dah             235 00:14:31,787 --> 00:14:36,207  I remember two different stories       from Phil about his father.     236 00:14:36,208 --> 00:14:38,708         One-- he did not talk        237 00:14:38,752 --> 00:14:41,462     a lot about him, but one was     238 00:14:41,505 --> 00:14:45,005         that he shot himself                      with a gun.             239 00:14:45,050 --> 00:14:46,590               [gunshot]              240 00:14:47,636 --> 00:14:49,556          And Phil found him.         241 00:14:49,555 --> 00:14:52,845          And the other story                     was that he--            242 00:14:52,850 --> 00:14:55,520           I think the word                 is "asphyxiated" himself.      243 00:14:59,857 --> 00:15:01,607       I know it affected Phil.       244 00:15:01,609 --> 00:15:05,989       That sort of started him                  on his journey.           245 00:15:06,030 --> 00:15:09,120      You know, when your father             commits suicide and...        246 00:15:10,034 --> 00:15:13,454          It was almost like           he was devoid of those feelings,  247 00:15:13,454 --> 00:15:16,754      or whatever feelings he had               on those levels,           248 00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:19,130       he put it into his music.      249 00:15:20,753 --> 00:15:22,503       Phil had a social circle,      250 00:15:22,546 --> 00:15:25,586           and he was dating                  my girlfriend Donna.         251 00:15:25,591 --> 00:15:27,681            And we were in                     junior high school.         252 00:15:27,676 --> 00:15:30,176    And one day Phil came up to me                and he said,             253 00:15:30,220 --> 00:15:32,180         "I love your voice."         254 00:15:32,181 --> 00:15:32,891                 Okay.                255 00:15:32,932 --> 00:15:35,102          I mean, I was like                     16 and a half.            256 00:15:35,142 --> 00:15:37,942     And he said, "I'm gonna write           a song for your voice,        257 00:15:37,978 --> 00:15:40,308           and you can be in                   our singing group."         258 00:15:40,314 --> 00:15:43,984         About two weeks later           the phone rings, and it's Phil.  259 00:15:43,984 --> 00:15:45,994  We went in the recording studio.  260 00:15:45,986 --> 00:15:49,196       Before I started to sing,               Phil came up to me          261 00:15:49,198 --> 00:15:50,948             and he said--            262 00:15:50,991 --> 00:15:53,081     He was even a producer then.     263 00:15:53,077 --> 00:15:55,327       This was the first thing                   he ever did.             264 00:15:55,329 --> 00:15:57,459              He said...              265 00:15:58,916 --> 00:16:02,956       "Sing it like you have--                 to a boyfriend."           266 00:16:02,962 --> 00:16:05,972       I said, "But I don't have                  a boyfriend."            267 00:16:05,965 --> 00:16:08,795               He said,                   "Then think of your father."     268 00:16:08,842 --> 00:16:12,182            [music playing,                         applause]              269 00:16:13,597 --> 00:16:15,387               Ba-dah-dah,                         dah-dah-dah             270 00:16:15,432 --> 00:16:19,142        To know, know, know him      271 00:16:19,144 --> 00:16:23,984               Is to love,                        love, love him           272 00:16:23,983 --> 00:16:28,613         Just to see his smile       273 00:16:28,654 --> 00:16:32,874              Makes my life                         worthwhile             274 00:16:32,908 --> 00:16:35,948        To know, know, know him      275 00:16:35,953 --> 00:16:40,463               Is to love,                        love, love him           276 00:16:40,457 --> 00:16:42,247              And I do...            277 00:16:42,251 --> 00:16:45,131        So, we're at rehearsal              at "The Perry Como Show,"      278 00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:47,970         and when I went to go                 for the high note,          279 00:16:47,965 --> 00:16:50,875        'cause it's at the top                    of my range,             280 00:16:50,926 --> 00:16:52,216           my voice cracked.          281 00:16:52,219 --> 00:16:57,059         And I was mortified,              just absolutely mortified.      282 00:16:57,099 --> 00:16:59,689    Phil put me up against the wall              and he said,             283 00:16:59,685 --> 00:17:03,805       "If you fuck up my song,               I'm gonna kill you."         284 00:17:03,856 --> 00:17:05,186                 Ahh!                 285 00:17:05,190 --> 00:17:07,820         And then when we went                  to sing the song,          286 00:17:07,818 --> 00:17:09,648       if you look at the show,       287 00:17:09,653 --> 00:17:14,453           there is a moment              before I go for the high note    288 00:17:14,491 --> 00:17:16,201        that I think a look of,       289 00:17:16,243 --> 00:17:20,123             "Please, God,                please let me hit this note."    290 00:17:20,164 --> 00:17:24,754           Do (And I do, and I,                  and I do, and I)          291 00:17:24,752 --> 00:17:27,962                  Why                292 00:17:27,963 --> 00:17:33,053              Can't he see           293 00:17:33,052 --> 00:17:37,562          How blind can he be        294 00:17:37,598 --> 00:17:41,438       It was a very high note,                   but I hit it.            295 00:17:41,435 --> 00:17:44,395               Someday...            296 00:17:44,396 --> 00:17:47,266          The record went on             to become the number-one record  297 00:17:47,274 --> 00:17:48,324             in the world.            298 00:17:48,317 --> 00:17:53,157      It was on the charts longer        than any other record in 1958.    299 00:17:53,155 --> 00:17:54,815    We were in the number-one spot    300 00:17:54,823 --> 00:17:58,083     for I think about four weeks                or five weeks.            301 00:17:58,118 --> 00:18:01,998        To know, know, know him      302 00:18:01,997 --> 00:18:06,747               Is to love,                        love, love him           303 00:18:08,170 --> 00:18:11,590         It was sort of ironic                that he would tell me        304 00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:13,340       to sing it to my father,       305 00:18:13,342 --> 00:18:16,472          because he took off                 his father's epitaph,        306 00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:18,560    "To know him was to love him,"    307 00:18:18,597 --> 00:18:21,137             and turned it                   into a teenage lament,        308 00:18:21,183 --> 00:18:23,563     "To know him   is   to love him."    309 00:18:23,602 --> 00:18:26,982                 And I do                       (And I do, and I)          310 00:18:26,980 --> 00:18:28,570         Ooh (And I do, and I)       311 00:18:28,607 --> 00:18:32,857                   I do                         (And I do, and I)          312 00:18:32,861 --> 00:18:36,281               Yes, I do             313 00:18:37,199 --> 00:18:41,909        When somebody's father              or parent kills themself,      314 00:18:41,912 --> 00:18:43,462       a child at a young age--       315 00:18:43,455 --> 00:18:46,825    because the child is the center         of their own universe,        316 00:18:46,875 --> 00:18:48,745          the child takes on              the burden of responsibility.    317 00:18:48,752 --> 00:18:51,302      You know, "I'm-- I must be              responsible for this         318 00:18:51,296 --> 00:18:53,256             "in some way,                    it must be my fault,         319 00:18:53,257 --> 00:18:56,137       you know, that I've been                    abandoned."             320 00:18:56,135 --> 00:18:57,545        So, there's this sense                   of abandonment,           321 00:18:57,594 --> 00:19:00,934  and there's this sense of guilt,     and these two things going on.    322 00:19:00,931 --> 00:19:05,351     So, I think that was a weight              for him to carry.          323 00:19:08,939 --> 00:19:12,649        [Phil]   I was motivated                 by a sense of destiny.       324 00:19:12,651 --> 00:19:16,241       I heard something different.    325 00:19:16,238 --> 00:19:20,828          I saw a different kind                 of music coming out.        326 00:19:22,161 --> 00:19:23,411         When the Teddy Bears                   went to New York,          327 00:19:23,453 --> 00:19:26,333        when they were on tour,            Bertha decided that Shirley     328 00:19:26,373 --> 00:19:30,543          should manage Phil,                   manage the group.          329 00:19:30,586 --> 00:19:33,336      Shirley became our manager.     330 00:19:33,338 --> 00:19:34,588              Thank you!              331 00:19:34,631 --> 00:19:36,181           I mean, she was--                    that's, you know,          332 00:19:36,216 --> 00:19:38,636          so she would travel                   with us at times.          333 00:19:38,677 --> 00:19:40,797          Just what I needed.         334 00:19:40,846 --> 00:19:43,966       He listened to his mother                 and his sister.           335 00:19:44,016 --> 00:19:45,926        They were very involved       336 00:19:45,976 --> 00:19:50,726        in Phil's "To Know Him         is to Love Him" Teddy Bear days.  337 00:19:50,772 --> 00:19:53,112          They used to fight.               I didn't know about what,      338 00:19:53,108 --> 00:19:54,778     but they yelled and screamed.    339 00:19:54,776 --> 00:19:58,196     They had a rather contentious               relationship...           340 00:19:59,198 --> 00:20:01,368          that was explosive.         341 00:20:01,366 --> 00:20:05,496  [Carol] Our agent got to a point         where he could not deal       342 00:20:05,495 --> 00:20:07,155         with Shirley Spector.        343 00:20:07,164 --> 00:20:11,134       Could not deal with her.       344 00:20:11,126 --> 00:20:13,836            She was scary.            345 00:20:15,255 --> 00:20:19,675         I wasn't used to that                 type of, you know,          346 00:20:19,676 --> 00:20:22,716      constant, you know, anger.      347 00:20:23,263 --> 00:20:25,813     I just, I wasn't used to it.     348 00:20:25,807 --> 00:20:26,927    This was a complete nightmare.    349 00:20:26,934 --> 00:20:30,024                I mean,                   it was the brother and sister    350 00:20:30,062 --> 00:20:31,442        squabbling and arguing,       351 00:20:31,438 --> 00:20:36,898    and all of Shirley's incipient        sort of mental instabilities     352 00:20:36,944 --> 00:20:38,454              coming out.             353 00:20:39,404 --> 00:20:43,124         I've never heard such         a cacophony of noise in my life.  354 00:20:43,116 --> 00:20:45,446  Screaming, screaming, screaming.  355 00:20:45,452 --> 00:20:47,832       I mean, I remember, like,                I would always--           356 00:20:47,829 --> 00:20:52,289            I couldn't bear                      the screaming.            357 00:20:53,502 --> 00:20:55,712          It was so intense.          358 00:20:58,715 --> 00:21:00,215       It was like they didn't--      359 00:21:00,217 --> 00:21:01,797              [shrieking]                    It was always up here!        360 00:21:01,843 --> 00:21:03,303           [in normal voice]              Instead of talking normally.     361 00:21:03,345 --> 00:21:05,385     [Mick] After the Teddy Bears               had become a hit,          362 00:21:05,389 --> 00:21:06,889      you know, he was desperate                   to get away             363 00:21:06,890 --> 00:21:10,890          from this stifling               dysfunctional family setup.     364 00:21:10,936 --> 00:21:14,306     Phil was still living at home          with Bertha and Shirley,       365 00:21:14,356 --> 00:21:16,016     with the tag wrestling team.     366 00:21:16,024 --> 00:21:18,994        Obviously, very anxious              to get away from that.        367 00:21:18,986 --> 00:21:21,776       Phil actually moved out,             and goes back to New York      368 00:21:21,780 --> 00:21:24,160      to work as the apprentice,                   as it were,             369 00:21:24,199 --> 00:21:26,239            to Jerry Leiber                     and Mike Stoller,          370 00:21:26,243 --> 00:21:30,713    who at that point were probably      the most successful producers    371 00:21:30,706 --> 00:21:32,666             in pop music.            372 00:21:32,666 --> 00:21:36,836      [Jeff Barry] I remember him         coming around to the offices,    373 00:21:36,878 --> 00:21:39,548         and I was introduced                     to him then,             374 00:21:39,548 --> 00:21:42,258            and that's when                we started to collaborate.      375 00:21:42,301 --> 00:21:43,301         We had a lot of fun.         376 00:21:43,302 --> 00:21:46,722        I mean, there's nothing                   to be not fun            377 00:21:46,763 --> 00:21:48,353          about writing songs         378 00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:51,100     and being in your early 20s.     379 00:21:51,101 --> 00:21:52,771          It wasn't a hobby.          380 00:21:52,811 --> 00:21:57,861            It was serious                  and dedicated, for sure.       381 00:21:57,899 --> 00:22:00,489       By this point, Phil is--               he's really beginning        382 00:22:00,485 --> 00:22:02,145           to feel his way,                 and he's really beginning      383 00:22:02,154 --> 00:22:03,414        to believe in himself.        384 00:22:03,447 --> 00:22:06,527           He wasn't 21 yet,             and he wanted to have his money  385 00:22:06,533 --> 00:22:08,453     to start his record company,                but his mother            386 00:22:08,452 --> 00:22:10,292          wouldn't allow him                    to have the money          387 00:22:10,287 --> 00:22:12,287         because he wasn't 21.        388 00:22:12,331 --> 00:22:14,291       So, I had to go to court                    with Phil,              389 00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:16,633        and I was gonna be one                    of the people            390 00:22:16,668 --> 00:22:18,378       speaking out in his favor      391 00:22:18,378 --> 00:22:20,088    that he should have the money.    392 00:22:20,088 --> 00:22:23,178         And his mother got on                and started talking,         393 00:22:23,216 --> 00:22:24,886       and talking, and talking.      394 00:22:24,926 --> 00:22:27,546         "He can't be trusted,              that we need the money,"       395 00:22:27,554 --> 00:22:30,974      and just nasty, degrading,                  so to speak.             396 00:22:30,974 --> 00:22:33,194             And the judge                    is shaking his head,         397 00:22:33,185 --> 00:22:34,515  and finally the gavel came down.  398 00:22:34,561 --> 00:22:35,811           -[gavel striking]                   -"I've heard enough         399 00:22:35,812 --> 00:22:36,862          of this," he said.          400 00:22:36,897 --> 00:22:38,357         "Give him the money.                   He's smart enough          401 00:22:38,398 --> 00:22:41,398          to earn the money.               He should have the money."      402 00:22:41,401 --> 00:22:44,951      [Carol] I think that Phil,                after the success          403 00:22:44,946 --> 00:22:47,406  of "To Know Him is to Love Him,"  404 00:22:47,407 --> 00:22:53,707         realized that he had                to control everything.        405 00:22:53,747 --> 00:22:54,867        And that's what he did.       406 00:22:54,915 --> 00:22:57,665          The record industry                  at that point was--         407 00:22:57,667 --> 00:23:00,837     a lot of the people who were           powerful in the business       408 00:23:00,879 --> 00:23:02,919         were slightly older.         409 00:23:02,964 --> 00:23:04,634  They didn't want their territory             encroached on.            410 00:23:04,674 --> 00:23:07,394      They certainly didn't want           some young whippersnapper,      411 00:23:07,386 --> 00:23:09,006    as Phil Spector was, coming in    412 00:23:09,054 --> 00:23:11,934            and encroaching                    on their territory.         413 00:23:11,932 --> 00:23:14,982          He went on to start                 his own record label.        414 00:23:15,018 --> 00:23:18,518        Philles, it was called,               if I'm not mistaken.         415 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:26,110             Before 1950,                       kids, teenagers,           416 00:23:26,154 --> 00:23:27,414           weren't a market.          417 00:23:27,447 --> 00:23:29,447        They didn't have money.       418 00:23:29,491 --> 00:23:33,291        So, no one was creating                  music for them,           419 00:23:33,328 --> 00:23:35,958    only creating music for adults.  420 00:23:35,997 --> 00:23:39,457     Young people started writing               for young people.          421 00:23:40,085 --> 00:23:42,085       Yeah, I met Phil Spector                  when I was 13,            422 00:23:42,129 --> 00:23:46,469         'cause we-- Phil was               recording us in New York.      423 00:23:47,551 --> 00:23:51,181      I loved the way he dressed,            I thought it was cool.        424 00:23:51,638 --> 00:23:55,388            I remember him                   going down in his seat        425 00:23:55,392 --> 00:23:59,402             in the studio                    when he was thinking         426 00:23:59,438 --> 00:24:02,568            with the music,                     like in a trance.          427 00:24:05,485 --> 00:24:07,895         [Phil]   I wanted to be                   in the background.         428 00:24:07,946 --> 00:24:09,486            I wanted to be in                      the background,           429 00:24:09,531 --> 00:24:10,621      but I wanted to be important,    430 00:24:10,615 --> 00:24:13,575               and I wanted                     to be the focal point.       431 00:24:13,618 --> 00:24:15,498           And I was not afraid                      or concerned            432 00:24:15,495 --> 00:24:17,575               about doing                     anyone else's material,       433 00:24:17,622 --> 00:24:20,082              rewriting it,                         I didn't care.           434 00:24:20,125 --> 00:24:23,085            I concerned myself                with the finished product      435 00:24:23,128 --> 00:24:26,968        and the art, because I had              this sound in my head.       436 00:24:27,757 --> 00:24:32,427     By this point, Phil, he's got       this sort of stable of artists,  437 00:24:32,471 --> 00:24:33,761        with the Paris Sisters,       438 00:24:33,763 --> 00:24:37,233             the Crystals,               Bob B. Soxx and the Blue Jeans.  439 00:24:37,267 --> 00:24:40,187       And he's shopping around            for another Crystals song,      440 00:24:40,228 --> 00:24:43,478      and a songwriter and artist               named Gene Pitney          441 00:24:43,523 --> 00:24:45,613          has written a song                 called "He's a Rebel."        442 00:24:45,650 --> 00:24:47,820           Phil immediately                   wants to record this,        443 00:24:47,819 --> 00:24:50,239       but he makes the decision           that he wants to record it      444 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,820         back in Los Angeles.         445 00:24:51,865 --> 00:24:54,695                [music]               446 00:24:55,619 --> 00:24:57,999            [Darlene Love]                   I met him at Gold Star.       447 00:24:57,996 --> 00:24:59,616         He introduced himself        448 00:24:59,623 --> 00:25:02,293      and said he had this group              called the Crystals,         449 00:25:02,292 --> 00:25:04,042       but they were very young       450 00:25:04,044 --> 00:25:05,964      and they couldn't come out      451 00:25:05,962 --> 00:25:07,552       to California to record.       452 00:25:07,547 --> 00:25:09,757    So, he was looking for a group                and a singer             453 00:25:09,758 --> 00:25:12,928          to record this song               that he wanted me to do.       454 00:25:12,928 --> 00:25:14,138              He's my guy            455 00:25:14,179 --> 00:25:17,679            And he came in                   in a suit, number one,        456 00:25:17,724 --> 00:25:21,734         and he had on a tie,                 and he had on heels.         457 00:25:22,896 --> 00:25:24,146     So, we went into the studio,     458 00:25:24,147 --> 00:25:26,227         he taught me the song                   "He's a Rebel."           459 00:25:26,233 --> 00:25:28,323          But when he told me              he wanted me to sing lead,      460 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:32,280    I said, "Well, it'll cost more            for me to sing lead."        461 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,700               He's a rebel                and he'll never, ever be...     462 00:25:34,699 --> 00:25:36,619     I thought it was a cute song,          I didn't think, you know.      463 00:25:36,660 --> 00:25:39,450    All the songs during that time             were cute little--          464 00:25:39,454 --> 00:25:41,124           well, we call 'em                    bubblegum songs.           465 00:25:41,164 --> 00:25:43,334    The Crystals were doing a gig.             It was five of us.          466 00:25:43,375 --> 00:25:46,035         It was five, I think,           five of us, yeah, at the time.    467 00:25:46,044 --> 00:25:47,754       And we were doing a gig,       468 00:25:47,754 --> 00:25:49,214        and you know, we always                 put on the radio           469 00:25:49,256 --> 00:25:52,586         so we can hear, and--              the top 10, or whatever.       470 00:25:52,634 --> 00:25:54,554      And we hear "He's a Rebel."     471 00:25:54,594 --> 00:25:56,474            He's not a rebel,                     oh, no, no, no           472 00:25:56,471 --> 00:25:59,601                 To me               473 00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:01,179            Nobody thought                        of anything.             474 00:26:01,226 --> 00:26:04,806           And the guy says,                     "The Crystals."           475 00:26:04,854 --> 00:26:05,864         We were like, "Huh?"         476 00:26:05,897 --> 00:26:08,687          It was not my song,            and I knew that the whole time.  477 00:26:08,692 --> 00:26:10,612     That's why I never really got               upset about it,           478 00:26:10,652 --> 00:26:13,032        or felt I was cheated,               or anything like that.        479 00:26:13,029 --> 00:26:14,739          I knew when I went                     into his studio           480 00:26:14,739 --> 00:26:17,579       to record "He's a Rebel,"         it was not gonna be my record.    481 00:26:17,617 --> 00:26:19,117        I'm very good on stage.       482 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,370            They won't like me                     after today             483 00:26:21,371 --> 00:26:23,831        And I'm very powerful.        484 00:26:23,832 --> 00:26:28,002    And I can take Darlene's voice              and make it mine,          485 00:26:28,044 --> 00:26:30,094              but nobody                     would be dissatisfied.        486 00:26:30,130 --> 00:26:33,260         So, I wasn't worried                  about being secure.         487 00:26:33,258 --> 00:26:36,638           I just was pissed                because the Crystal name       488 00:26:36,636 --> 00:26:40,056         was underneath that,               and we were established.       489 00:26:40,056 --> 00:26:41,726       There was no way in heck       490 00:26:41,766 --> 00:26:45,556           that we could not                  have done that song,         491 00:26:45,604 --> 00:26:46,904       especially with my voice.      492 00:26:46,896 --> 00:26:47,896             Oh, no, no, no          493 00:26:47,897 --> 00:26:51,027            He's not a rebel,                 oh, no, no, no, to me        494 00:26:51,026 --> 00:26:53,146     It upset us when he did that.    495 00:26:53,153 --> 00:26:55,533          It upset us a lot.                      It upset us.             496 00:26:55,572 --> 00:26:59,532               No, no, no,                          no, no, no             497 00:26:59,534 --> 00:27:01,544               No, no, no            498 00:27:01,536 --> 00:27:04,456           We had a manager,                      Joe Scandore.            499 00:27:04,497 --> 00:27:07,457       Joe Scandore was no joke,          'cause he knew he was mafia,     500 00:27:07,459 --> 00:27:12,169    you know, was-- had connection,       and that's who managed us.      501 00:27:12,172 --> 00:27:14,342     So, Joe Scandore was furious.    502 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,180          One day when I went                    to his office,            503 00:27:18,219 --> 00:27:22,309        he's laughing with Jim,                 this big bouncer,          504 00:27:22,349 --> 00:27:24,849             and he said--                  with his Italian accent,       505 00:27:24,893 --> 00:27:28,193       he said, "Jim, tell La La               what you just did."         506 00:27:28,229 --> 00:27:29,649      And he said, "Yeah, La La,"     507 00:27:29,648 --> 00:27:30,978         he said, "I just flew                  from California."          508 00:27:30,982 --> 00:27:33,532      He said, "Yeah, I ran Phil            around the effing table."      509 00:27:33,568 --> 00:27:36,908       He said, "And I told Phil         if he didn't record you girls,"  510 00:27:36,905 --> 00:27:40,575        he said, "I was gonna,              you know, kill his mother      511 00:27:40,617 --> 00:27:42,787       and cut his effing legs."      512 00:27:44,746 --> 00:27:47,536           Phil got scared,                   and from that day on         513 00:27:47,540 --> 00:27:50,840        Phil carried bodyguards           with him every place he went.    514 00:27:50,877 --> 00:27:52,877      -That other bar's the same?                -Yeah, we'll...           515 00:27:52,879 --> 00:27:55,379        [Darlene] After we did                   "He's a Rebel,"           516 00:27:55,423 --> 00:27:57,803           Phil wanted to do                something special for me.      517 00:27:57,801 --> 00:28:01,601       So, we were getting ready           to do a Darlene Love song.      518 00:28:01,638 --> 00:28:03,678          I started learning                     "Doo Ron Ron,"            519 00:28:03,723 --> 00:28:06,313         and that was supposed                 to be another song          520 00:28:06,309 --> 00:28:09,849     that was supposed to be mine             and not the Crystals.        521 00:28:09,854 --> 00:28:11,444       [La La] Phil never wanted                 to use Darlene            522 00:28:11,439 --> 00:28:13,979          on "Da Doo Ron Ron"          because she had a woman's voice.  523 00:28:13,983 --> 00:28:15,153         Listen to the lyrics.        524 00:28:15,193 --> 00:28:17,613           It's for a child,                     a young person.           525 00:28:17,612 --> 00:28:19,202          That's number one.          526 00:28:19,197 --> 00:28:22,197              Number two,                  he was not putting Darlene      527 00:28:22,242 --> 00:28:24,292           on another track                     of the Crystals.           528 00:28:24,285 --> 00:28:30,245        All I could think about             is Jim and Joe Scandore.       529 00:28:33,795 --> 00:28:38,715          Phil never told me,                 even when I saw him.         530 00:28:38,717 --> 00:28:41,047            And many a day                   I saw him in California       531 00:28:41,094 --> 00:28:42,394        putting down the music.       532 00:28:42,429 --> 00:28:44,889     He never took me to the side          and said, "You know, La La,     533 00:28:44,931 --> 00:28:47,391        guess what Joe Scandore                    did to me?"             534 00:28:49,978 --> 00:28:52,938      So, you know, I don't know              how it crushed Phil,         535 00:28:52,939 --> 00:28:56,939     how it had an impact on him,              why he kept quiet.          536 00:28:56,943 --> 00:28:59,903    And I think the reason why Phil       didn't give an explanation      537 00:28:59,904 --> 00:29:03,074       is because he flew me out                 to California,            538 00:29:03,116 --> 00:29:04,866     I recorded "Da Doo Ron Ron,"     539 00:29:04,868 --> 00:29:07,038            and he had one                    of the biggest hits.         540 00:29:07,620 --> 00:29:10,920          I met him on a Monday              and my heart stood still      541 00:29:10,915 --> 00:29:13,835           Da doo ron-ron-ron,                    da doo ron ron           542 00:29:13,877 --> 00:29:17,297             Somebody told me                 that his name was Bill       543 00:29:17,297 --> 00:29:21,177           Da doo ron-ron-ron,                    da doo ron ron           544 00:29:21,176 --> 00:29:24,346              Yes, he looked                         so fine               545 00:29:24,387 --> 00:29:27,387        Yes, I'll make him mine      546 00:29:27,432 --> 00:29:30,022            And when he walked                       me home               547 00:29:30,018 --> 00:29:36,068           Da doo ron-ron-ron,                    da doo ron ron           548 00:29:36,065 --> 00:29:37,935             Yeah, yeah...           549 00:29:37,984 --> 00:29:39,824       [Darlene] I'm coming home                 from a session,           550 00:29:39,819 --> 00:29:41,319            and I'm driving                     down the street,           551 00:29:41,362 --> 00:29:45,282          and the disc jockey                     on the radio             552 00:29:45,325 --> 00:29:48,155         said, "The next song                   by the Crystals."          553 00:29:48,203 --> 00:29:51,793        Da doo ron ron, yeah...      554 00:29:51,831 --> 00:29:53,831         It was the same one,                 it was the same key,         555 00:29:53,875 --> 00:29:55,955           same arrangement,                     the same thing,           556 00:29:56,002 --> 00:29:57,632          he just didn't have                    my voice on it.           557 00:29:57,670 --> 00:30:01,760     The records that he's making,        they're not Crystals records,    558 00:30:01,758 --> 00:30:03,718              they're not                     Darlene Love records.        559 00:30:03,718 --> 00:30:05,548     They're Phil Spector records.    560 00:30:05,553 --> 00:30:07,933         The producer becomes                bigger than the stars,        561 00:30:07,972 --> 00:30:10,232    you know, the producer becomes            bigger than the hits,        562 00:30:10,266 --> 00:30:11,976       the producer   is   the hit.       563 00:30:11,976 --> 00:30:15,226          And he's dominating               the American music scene       564 00:30:15,271 --> 00:30:16,861        with the wall of sound.       565 00:30:19,025 --> 00:30:21,605          There really wasn't                 any particular artist        566 00:30:21,653 --> 00:30:22,863         we were writing for.         567 00:30:22,862 --> 00:30:26,162           Whoever was next               up for a release of a single     568 00:30:26,157 --> 00:30:27,197       would get the next song.       569 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,580             And he asked me                   if I wanted to dance        570 00:30:29,577 --> 00:30:31,537      [Russ] That's what made him               such a big star,           571 00:30:31,538 --> 00:30:34,538        that he was the creator                  of this sound.            572 00:30:34,541 --> 00:30:36,881           The wall of sound                was having the cacophony       573 00:30:36,918 --> 00:30:40,128         of four piano players               playing the same part,        574 00:30:40,129 --> 00:30:43,259    and five guitar players playing             the same part,            575 00:30:43,299 --> 00:30:44,589           but expanding it.          576 00:30:44,592 --> 00:30:47,472          And I used to say,             "We're the mud of his records."  577 00:30:48,346 --> 00:30:50,516          We were at a studio                   called Gold Star,          578 00:30:50,515 --> 00:30:52,555             and Gold Star                     had an echo chamber         579 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,060       that was one of the keys               to their sound there.        580 00:30:56,062 --> 00:30:58,112            And if you knew                   how to use it right--        581 00:30:58,147 --> 00:31:04,067     and he did-- it just expanded        the sound, you know, tenfold.    582 00:31:06,573 --> 00:31:08,323            Phil would say,                  "Well, let's try this,        583 00:31:08,366 --> 00:31:09,826     "let's bounce this over here     584 00:31:09,826 --> 00:31:11,196            to this track,                     or bounce it here."         585 00:31:11,202 --> 00:31:13,872       And we'd go in the booth            and listen to the playback,     586 00:31:13,913 --> 00:31:17,253          and it was amazing                 what he was able to do        587 00:31:17,250 --> 00:31:17,960          with those tracks.          588 00:31:17,959 --> 00:31:20,169         And then he kissed me       589 00:31:20,169 --> 00:31:24,839    All those hit records have that      full, almost symphonic sound.    590 00:31:24,883 --> 00:31:28,393        He was like the master                   of that style.            591 00:31:30,430 --> 00:31:33,810       [Jeff] I believe in a way                he was on stage.           592 00:31:33,850 --> 00:31:36,020          It was his theater.         593 00:31:36,019 --> 00:31:37,939           I mean, you have                      to have control           594 00:31:37,937 --> 00:31:40,727            as the director                       of a project.            595 00:31:40,773 --> 00:31:44,403       He revered the musicians,           he respected the musicians.     596 00:31:44,402 --> 00:31:46,912             The singers,                  who essentially were kids,      597 00:31:46,905 --> 00:31:47,985         you know, they were--        598 00:31:48,031 --> 00:31:49,991         La La Brooks I think                      was 15, 16,             599 00:31:50,033 --> 00:31:51,163           when she recorded                  "Then He Kissed Me."         600 00:31:51,159 --> 00:31:54,829             Then he asked me                    to be his bride           601 00:31:54,829 --> 00:31:57,119       He certainly was the one       602 00:31:57,123 --> 00:31:59,923        who demanded attention,                  and he got it.            603 00:31:59,959 --> 00:32:04,799             I almost cried,                  and then he kissed me        604 00:32:04,797 --> 00:32:08,427    Maybe that's what he was doing,     trying to outshine the artist,    605 00:32:08,426 --> 00:32:10,346        and try to control them                   contractually            606 00:32:10,386 --> 00:32:11,926          in every other way,         607 00:32:11,971 --> 00:32:15,061       and that he was the star                   and not them.            608 00:32:15,058 --> 00:32:17,558          He was never really             that rude with the musicians.    609 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,060       He could be a bit terse,            but we had a sense of humor     610 00:32:20,063 --> 00:32:21,813         and we'd give it back                  to him, you know.          611 00:32:21,814 --> 00:32:25,324    But sometimes the way he spoke        to some of the girl singers,     612 00:32:25,318 --> 00:32:29,988     he was really rude, you know,       which really used to bother me.  613 00:32:30,657 --> 00:32:33,617         They didn't like it,          but they would take the rudeness  614 00:32:33,660 --> 00:32:35,950           because he knew--                   at the bottom line,         615 00:32:35,995 --> 00:32:36,995        they were getting paid.       616 00:32:36,996 --> 00:32:42,456         And then he kissed me       617 00:32:43,086 --> 00:32:46,456      [Jeff] It was kind of mean,              tell you the truth.         618 00:32:46,464 --> 00:32:50,304           He really wasn't                 treating them as artists.      619 00:32:50,301 --> 00:32:52,761           They were tools.           620 00:32:52,762 --> 00:32:55,352          They weren't people              that could stand up to him      621 00:32:55,348 --> 00:32:56,598  in the way that musicians could.  622 00:32:56,599 --> 00:32:58,939    They weren't people that could             answer back to him.         623 00:32:58,977 --> 00:33:02,437     You know, the Paris Sisters,     624 00:33:02,438 --> 00:33:04,518       which were a copy of me,       625 00:33:04,524 --> 00:33:06,364           Phil played them               "To Know Him is to Love Him"     626 00:33:06,401 --> 00:33:11,111      and said, "I want you to do         whatever, you know, she did.     627 00:33:11,155 --> 00:33:13,275             That is what                      I want to capture."         628 00:33:13,324 --> 00:33:15,874       The very sweet, gentle...      629 00:33:15,868 --> 00:33:17,578       I love how your eyes close   630 00:33:17,620 --> 00:33:22,040                I love how                       your eyes close           631 00:33:22,041 --> 00:33:25,841          Whenever you kiss me       632 00:33:25,837 --> 00:33:28,167      The first time I heard it,      633 00:33:28,172 --> 00:33:31,302             I was driving                     and it was raining,         634 00:33:31,342 --> 00:33:33,722        and I had the radio on.       635 00:33:34,637 --> 00:33:39,727     For one split second in time,            I thought it was me.         636 00:33:41,102 --> 00:33:44,942      I really thought it was me.     637 00:33:44,981 --> 00:33:50,031       And then reality came in.      638 00:33:50,028 --> 00:33:51,818        Pulled off to the side                     of the road             639 00:33:51,863 --> 00:33:53,203          and started to cry,         640 00:33:53,239 --> 00:33:57,039         because I knew he had                   the formula...            641 00:33:58,953 --> 00:34:01,753      and I was not a part of it.     642 00:34:01,789 --> 00:34:03,539            [clicks tongue]           643 00:34:04,417 --> 00:34:07,997                  Ooh                644 00:34:08,046 --> 00:34:10,086       [Phil]   Being comfortable                   and reasonable,           645 00:34:10,131 --> 00:34:14,801          very important to me,                 very important to me.        646 00:34:14,802 --> 00:34:17,222  Because I don't feel comfortable             with myself a lot,         647 00:34:17,263 --> 00:34:20,643             and I don't feel                     reasonable a lot.          648 00:34:20,683 --> 00:34:24,153            I feel comfortable                      in the studio.           649 00:34:24,187 --> 00:34:28,777         So, I sat back and said,              it's like those records.      650 00:34:29,650 --> 00:34:31,570       They were the greatest love                    of my life             651 00:34:31,611 --> 00:34:33,781         when I were making them.      652 00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:36,320           I lived and breathed                     those records.           653 00:34:36,365 --> 00:34:38,905          That's why I never had              relationships with anybody     654 00:34:38,951 --> 00:34:40,831             that could last.          655 00:34:40,870 --> 00:34:42,160            They were my life.         656 00:34:42,205 --> 00:34:45,415      They were more important to me               than anything.           657 00:34:45,458 --> 00:34:49,298          My songs, my records,               my li-- they were my life.     658 00:34:49,337 --> 00:34:53,007        You know, nothing competed                    with them.             659 00:34:53,049 --> 00:34:55,799            [music playing]           660 00:34:56,886 --> 00:34:59,306       [male reporter]   Never in             the history of popular music    661 00:34:59,347 --> 00:35:02,597        has the recording industry          been so completely in the grip  662 00:35:02,642 --> 00:35:04,352         of America's teenagers.       663 00:35:04,393 --> 00:35:06,853          This new type of music                  has been described         664 00:35:06,854 --> 00:35:10,944            as the teen feel,                    and the dumb sound.         665 00:35:10,942 --> 00:35:14,402       These new songs are usually              about broken romances        666 00:35:14,445 --> 00:35:16,195          and unfulfilled love.        667 00:35:16,197 --> 00:35:18,947       The lyrics are simple-minded                and repetitive.           668 00:35:18,991 --> 00:35:22,701        The sound is loud, weird,              and driving as possible.      669 00:35:22,745 --> 00:35:25,705          The singers are young                and often inexperienced.      670 00:35:25,748 --> 00:35:28,918            The new generation                 has turned Tin Pan Alley      671 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,050          into "Teen" Pan Alley.       672 00:35:31,087 --> 00:35:33,797           [music continues]          673 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,970              My next guest,                      Mr. Phil Spector,          674 00:35:36,008 --> 00:35:38,548       former member of the teenage              rock and roll group         675 00:35:38,594 --> 00:35:39,764             the Teddy Bears.          676 00:35:39,762 --> 00:35:41,602               Mr. Spector                         is 23 years old           677 00:35:41,597 --> 00:35:44,887      and one of the most successful        songwriters in the business.    678 00:35:44,934 --> 00:35:47,854         His famous songs include                 "Spanish Harlem,"          679 00:35:47,895 --> 00:35:52,355            "Secondhand Love,"                    "Da Doo Ron Ron,"          680 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,440             and many others.          681 00:35:53,442 --> 00:35:57,492      Mr. Spector is the sole owner              of Philles Records,         682 00:35:57,530 --> 00:35:58,530        which is expected to gross     683 00:35:58,573 --> 00:36:00,623      two and a half million dollars                 this year.             684 00:36:00,658 --> 00:36:02,788              Now, I submit,                        Mr. Spector...           685 00:36:02,785 --> 00:36:05,075           -[Phil]   Help me.                 -...that in the long history    686 00:36:05,121 --> 00:36:11,291        of American popular music,          this is not likely to endure.    687 00:36:13,254 --> 00:36:15,514       [Carol Connors] You must              give the devil his due,       688 00:36:15,548 --> 00:36:18,338        and Phil was brilliant.       689 00:36:18,384 --> 00:36:21,894           He had everything                in the palm of his hands,      690 00:36:21,888 --> 00:36:25,978     and God, I still think today               that, as I said,           691 00:36:26,017 --> 00:36:29,557      I do think he was a genius             when it came to music.        692 00:36:29,604 --> 00:36:36,404    He would make little symphonies        and-- you know, of songs,      693 00:36:36,402 --> 00:36:40,242            and they became                   like little vignettes        694 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:41,819      that all of us teenagers--      695 00:36:41,866 --> 00:36:45,036        I mean, "He's a Rebel,"                   all of them.             696 00:36:45,077 --> 00:36:48,707           You know, they--                       "Be My Baby."            697 00:36:48,706 --> 00:36:52,336        ["Be My Baby" playing]        698 00:36:56,505 --> 00:37:02,085            The night we met,                 I knew I needed you so       699 00:37:02,136 --> 00:37:04,056           The Ronettes did                    "The T.N.T. Show."          700 00:37:04,096 --> 00:37:09,556         And if I had the chance,              I'd never let you go        701 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,020      Oh, what a beautiful song,      702 00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:12,190       we just loved that song.       703 00:37:12,230 --> 00:37:13,770        It was a glorious song.       704 00:37:13,814 --> 00:37:17,244             "Be My Baby,"               what a fantastic song that is,    705 00:37:17,276 --> 00:37:21,316          and an enormous hit                   for Phil Spector.          706 00:37:21,364 --> 00:37:25,124        And the beginning of a,              you know, of a good run       707 00:37:25,159 --> 00:37:26,739           of Ronettes hits.          708 00:37:26,744 --> 00:37:30,834               Be my baby,                      be my little baby          709 00:37:30,873 --> 00:37:33,133    Ronnie was always the smallest,  710 00:37:33,125 --> 00:37:35,875     so she had to be the loudest.    711 00:37:36,462 --> 00:37:39,302     She had to be in the middle,          you know, so she could hear     712 00:37:39,340 --> 00:37:41,130     everything that was going on                  around her.             713 00:37:41,133 --> 00:37:45,393        I'll make you happy, baby,              just wait and see          714 00:37:45,388 --> 00:37:49,098     When I heard Ronnie's voice,            she just blew me away,        715 00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:50,060           and her sisters.           716 00:37:50,059 --> 00:37:54,479          I saw you, I have been                 waiting for you           717 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,020     I loved the Crystals' stuff,                "He's a Rebel"            718 00:37:57,024 --> 00:37:58,404         and "Da Doo Ron Ron."        719 00:37:58,401 --> 00:38:00,281          But Ronnie took it                    to another place.          720 00:38:00,319 --> 00:38:02,859            So won't you be          721 00:38:02,863 --> 00:38:05,783            Be my, be my baby,                  be my little baby          722 00:38:05,825 --> 00:38:07,865        And so, in short order,                   the Crystals             723 00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:09,580           get rather pushed                      to one side,             724 00:38:09,620 --> 00:38:12,210        and the Ronettes become           the center of his attention,     725 00:38:12,206 --> 00:38:14,626           and particularly                     Veronica Bennett,          726 00:38:14,667 --> 00:38:17,417       who becomes better known           eventually as Ronnie Spector.    727 00:38:17,461 --> 00:38:21,301       [Nedra] Phil had his eye           on Ronnie from the beginning.    728 00:38:22,258 --> 00:38:24,338       I didn't have a problem.       729 00:38:24,343 --> 00:38:25,933           Don't look at me.                       [laughing]              730 00:38:25,970 --> 00:38:27,720          That's-- I remember                 what I was thinking.         731 00:38:27,722 --> 00:38:30,222    Just don't even look this way.    732 00:38:30,224 --> 00:38:31,894            But, you know,            733 00:38:31,934 --> 00:38:34,444             unfortunately                    he was married, so...        734 00:38:34,437 --> 00:38:36,307          And the first night                     we walked in,            735 00:38:36,314 --> 00:38:38,484            it was just him                   sitting at the piano.        736 00:38:38,524 --> 00:38:40,614         And he looked at me,                 and I looked at him,         737 00:38:40,609 --> 00:38:41,859       it was like eye contact,       738 00:38:41,861 --> 00:38:43,821             and he says,                  "Well, sing me some song."      739 00:38:43,821 --> 00:38:44,951       And I started singing...       740 00:38:44,989 --> 00:38:48,279            Why do birds sing                         so gay               741 00:38:48,284 --> 00:38:49,334           And Phil stopped,                        he said,               742 00:38:49,368 --> 00:38:51,448           "That's the voice                 I've been looking for!"       743 00:38:51,454 --> 00:38:55,294            Be my, be my baby,                  be my little baby          744 00:38:55,333 --> 00:38:59,053          My one and only baby,                        ohh                 745 00:38:59,086 --> 00:39:02,876  [Mick] At this point Phil wasn't   entirely without female company.  746 00:39:02,923 --> 00:39:05,803    He had got married in New York,  747 00:39:05,843 --> 00:39:09,853           this very pretty                 elfin-looking young girl       748 00:39:09,847 --> 00:39:11,217         called Annette Merar.        749 00:39:11,265 --> 00:39:13,425          He obviously loved                    Annette greatly.           750 00:39:13,476 --> 00:39:16,146      And after he'd betrayed her             terribly, of course,         751 00:39:16,187 --> 00:39:17,357       she still spoke about him      752 00:39:17,396 --> 00:39:21,356        with a tremendous sort                    of affection.            753 00:39:21,359 --> 00:39:23,029          [Annette]   Phil had                    the other qualities         754 00:39:23,027 --> 00:39:24,947               of charisma,                     and charm, and humor,        755 00:39:24,945 --> 00:39:27,615          and I've always liked                  geniuses, and poets,        756 00:39:27,615 --> 00:39:29,825          and things like that,                  because I need that.        757 00:39:29,867 --> 00:39:31,037            I don't know why.          758 00:39:31,077 --> 00:39:33,537             He made my soul                      just fall in love.         759 00:39:33,537 --> 00:39:35,037         [Mick] And listening                  back to the tapes,          760 00:39:35,039 --> 00:39:37,169         it sort of struck me,                God, she was still--         761 00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:39,286      even though she'd obviously              made her own life,          762 00:39:39,335 --> 00:39:41,045             and married,                       and had a family,          763 00:39:41,087 --> 00:39:42,507         there's a part of her                   that's still--            764 00:39:42,546 --> 00:39:43,876           was still in love                  with Phil, you know,         765 00:39:43,881 --> 00:39:45,131     had never fallen out of love                  with Phil.              766 00:39:45,132 --> 00:39:48,552            And it's a sign                of the love he had for her      767 00:39:48,552 --> 00:39:53,272       that on the runout groove                 of the records            768 00:39:53,265 --> 00:39:56,685    he would put "Phil + Annette."    769 00:39:56,685 --> 00:40:00,225       And the first record that              that didn't appear on        770 00:40:00,272 --> 00:40:03,532           was "Be My Baby"                     by The Ronettes.           771 00:40:03,526 --> 00:40:06,316       [Nedra] When I found out            he was married, I was like,     772 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:07,700            this is wrong.            773 00:40:07,738 --> 00:40:11,158         We just grew up with             certain things you don't do.     774 00:40:11,158 --> 00:40:14,908      God-- you don't get blessed              when you do wrong.          775 00:40:14,954 --> 00:40:18,124           The way he acted                     toward his wife,           776 00:40:18,124 --> 00:40:20,044           I just felt bad.           777 00:40:20,042 --> 00:40:23,052           Phil was not even                     Ronnie's type.            778 00:40:24,255 --> 00:40:25,665      He had a lot of insecurity      779 00:40:25,714 --> 00:40:30,224        because of his stature                and things like that.        780 00:40:30,261 --> 00:40:33,561        So, why would you look,       781 00:40:33,556 --> 00:40:37,176       except you see something            that you can get out of it?     782 00:40:37,643 --> 00:40:41,773         [Mick] Ronnie I think                wanted to be a star.         783 00:40:41,772 --> 00:40:44,982       She wanted to be famous,           she wanted to be successful.     784 00:40:44,984 --> 00:40:49,454           And Phil Spector                 was her passport to that.      785 00:40:49,488 --> 00:40:52,278       [Nedra] If somebody's got                their eye on you,          786 00:40:52,324 --> 00:40:54,664      and they're older than you,     787 00:40:54,702 --> 00:40:57,162          and they're saying,             "I can do all these things,"     788 00:40:57,163 --> 00:41:00,123          you could see where                  that's a big pull.          789 00:41:00,166 --> 00:41:03,496        But you don't know what            you're getting pulled into.     790 00:41:06,088 --> 00:41:08,968    [Mick] In Phil Spector's case,              the selfishness,           791 00:41:08,966 --> 00:41:11,046          the way he handles                    these situations,          792 00:41:11,093 --> 00:41:13,433      I think this sort of shows                   a pattern.              793 00:41:13,429 --> 00:41:14,969         It was pretty common                     at that point            794 00:41:14,972 --> 00:41:16,222       and recurred throughout.       795 00:41:16,265 --> 00:41:20,185      You know, there were people            who were useful to him,       796 00:41:20,186 --> 00:41:24,146           who he could use                  and then dispense with.       797 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:31,530      This, I think, goes to one          of the most unpleasant traits    798 00:41:31,530 --> 00:41:34,070         Spector would exhibit                throughout his life,         799 00:41:34,116 --> 00:41:36,946    is seeing people as disposable.  800 00:41:38,496 --> 00:41:40,536         Women, in particular.        801 00:41:42,166 --> 00:41:46,996    [Phil]   I controlled everything               in this instance.          802 00:41:47,046 --> 00:41:50,166          I was a control freak.       803 00:41:50,216 --> 00:41:52,296      You have to conquer yourself,                   you know,              804 00:41:52,343 --> 00:41:58,183          you have to really...                 control your own self.       805 00:42:04,522 --> 00:42:09,902           I have devils inside                     that fight me,           806 00:42:09,902 --> 00:42:11,822       and I'm my own worst enemy.     807 00:42:11,820 --> 00:42:14,780      For all intents and purposes,              I'd say I'm probably        808 00:42:14,823 --> 00:42:16,953            relatively insane.         809 00:42:16,951 --> 00:42:18,241     [Mick] It felt extraordinary.    810 00:42:18,244 --> 00:42:21,464     It felt almost as if I was at         a confessional in some way.     811 00:42:21,455 --> 00:42:23,165    I mean, he hadn't spoken for--    812 00:42:23,207 --> 00:42:25,417          not given a formal                   sit-down interview          813 00:42:25,459 --> 00:42:27,959           for 20, 25 years.          814 00:42:27,962 --> 00:42:29,342          And the last thing                      I'd expected             815 00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:32,130        was that he would speak             with quite as much candor      816 00:42:32,132 --> 00:42:35,302       and quite as much honesty                   as he did,              817 00:42:35,302 --> 00:42:39,772     and with a sort of revelation       of really naked, naked emotion.  818 00:42:43,894 --> 00:42:46,654         At the end of the day             as the sun was going down,      819 00:42:46,647 --> 00:42:48,727    I came away from that interview              just thinking            820 00:42:48,774 --> 00:42:51,324       this was-- this was just                  extraordinary.            821 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,530          You know, my final               sort of words really there      822 00:42:53,571 --> 00:42:57,281            with Spector's                    personal assistant...        823 00:42:58,325 --> 00:43:00,235      you know, "We'd love to see             a copy of the article        824 00:43:00,286 --> 00:43:02,286          when it comes out,"               and so I said, of course.      825 00:43:02,329 --> 00:43:04,289      As soon as the early binds              came into the office,        826 00:43:04,331 --> 00:43:07,331          I had some FedEx-ed                over to Spector's house       827 00:43:07,334 --> 00:43:11,214       so that he would be able            to read it at the same time     828 00:43:11,213 --> 00:43:13,093       as it was being published                   in Britain              829 00:43:13,090 --> 00:43:15,220       on the Saturday morning.       830 00:43:15,259 --> 00:43:17,389        The Monday afterwards,                  I happened to be           831 00:43:17,386 --> 00:43:18,886       in the telegraph office,       832 00:43:18,887 --> 00:43:21,807        and somebody came down               from upstairs and said,       833 00:43:21,849 --> 00:43:25,269          "What did you write                to upset Phil Spector?"       834 00:43:26,145 --> 00:43:27,975  I said, "Why, what do you mean?"  835 00:43:28,022 --> 00:43:29,442            "Well, turn on                      the television."           836 00:43:29,481 --> 00:43:31,651     We turned on the television,     837 00:43:31,692 --> 00:43:33,572      and there was the sort of--     838 00:43:33,611 --> 00:43:35,901          the classic sort of                    helicopter shot           839 00:43:35,904 --> 00:43:40,454        of the Pyrenees Castle              where I'd interviewed him      840 00:43:40,492 --> 00:43:42,372      four or five weeks earlier,     841 00:43:42,411 --> 00:43:46,001         this time bound round              with yellow police tape,       842 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:50,630     squad cars with their lights,         you know, flashing on top,      843 00:43:50,628 --> 00:43:52,208       detectives in boxy suits       844 00:43:52,254 --> 00:43:54,134            sort of moving                  in and out of the house,       845 00:43:54,131 --> 00:43:57,721           and the news that                  an unidentified woman        846 00:43:57,718 --> 00:44:01,258       had been found shot dead              in Phil Spector's home.       847 00:44:02,014 --> 00:44:05,354        And I looked at Casper,       848 00:44:05,392 --> 00:44:07,022     the editor who'd commissioned                 the piece,              849 00:44:07,061 --> 00:44:10,441  and he looked at me, and we both      had exactly the same thought.    850 00:44:10,439 --> 00:44:14,779     My God, he's read the piece,          the piece has set him off,      851 00:44:14,818 --> 00:44:16,778              and he shot                    his personal assistant.       852 00:44:16,820 --> 00:44:22,240         That was our thought,            that he'd sort of just gone--    853 00:44:22,284 --> 00:44:24,164    that he'd flipped reading this.  854 00:44:25,245 --> 00:44:30,205       [Nicole] I was in a class             about magical realism.        855 00:44:30,209 --> 00:44:31,539      We were reading something,      856 00:44:31,543 --> 00:44:32,963     and I don't know what it was.    857 00:44:32,961 --> 00:44:34,001       I wish I could remember.       858 00:44:34,046 --> 00:44:36,626        But there was this line       859 00:44:36,632 --> 00:44:37,802       that she kept repeating.       860 00:44:37,841 --> 00:44:41,471           She kept saying,                   "They took my father.        861 00:44:41,470 --> 00:44:42,600         They took my father."        862 00:44:42,596 --> 00:44:45,466      Like, she kept being like,         "I want you to feel this line."  863 00:44:45,516 --> 00:44:46,676       And this woman showed up.      864 00:44:46,684 --> 00:44:48,564           She, like, ducked                   into the classroom          865 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:49,900          and pulled me out.          866 00:44:49,895 --> 00:44:52,355     And my immediate thought was      that one of my parents was dead.  867 00:44:52,356 --> 00:44:56,566          I was very attached                    to my parents.            868 00:44:56,610 --> 00:44:58,400            I was shaking,                      I was so scared,           869 00:44:58,445 --> 00:45:00,855      'cause I-- that was always                my biggest fear.           870 00:45:00,864 --> 00:45:02,914       And first, she was like,                 "Your mom's okay,          871 00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:03,910           your dad's okay."          872 00:45:03,951 --> 00:45:05,951         And I was just like,                "Oh my God, thank God."       873 00:45:05,953 --> 00:45:11,383          And then she says,             "But, like, something happened.  874 00:45:11,375 --> 00:45:13,535             "A woman died                    at your dad's house,         875 00:45:13,585 --> 00:45:14,835     "and it's all over the news.     876 00:45:14,837 --> 00:45:16,837        "We need to get you out                    right now.              877 00:45:19,508 --> 00:45:21,928      "We don't know who it was,           we don't know anything yet.     878 00:45:21,969 --> 00:45:25,759         "But you know, like,                  you should probably         879 00:45:25,806 --> 00:45:27,386     stay out of school for now."     880 00:45:27,433 --> 00:45:28,893          You know, I'm like,                 "Where's my father?"         881 00:45:28,892 --> 00:45:30,692           And they're like,                "They took your father."       882 00:45:30,686 --> 00:45:31,896             And I'm like,                    just thinking, like,         883 00:45:31,937 --> 00:45:33,557         "They took my father,                they took my father,"        884 00:45:33,564 --> 00:45:37,654      from this class, this line           my professor kept reciting.     885 00:45:37,693 --> 00:45:41,663            So, she took me                     to a coffee shop.          886 00:45:41,655 --> 00:45:42,865           The news was on,                      and it was like           887 00:45:42,906 --> 00:45:45,446        this, like, big circus                    was happening            888 00:45:45,451 --> 00:45:46,371          at my dad's house,          889 00:45:46,410 --> 00:45:50,540          and I was just like                  in total disbelief.         890 00:45:50,581 --> 00:45:53,711       It was just very surreal.      891 00:45:53,709 --> 00:45:58,049          It was-- it was bad                   magical realism.           892 00:45:58,630 --> 00:46:00,840         [Paul] We anticipated            it was gonna be a media show.    893 00:46:00,841 --> 00:46:02,681             We knew that                       going into that.           894 00:46:02,718 --> 00:46:04,848        It was a media circus,                   it was insane.            895 00:46:04,845 --> 00:46:06,465    [Charles Gibson] Phil Spector,              who helped define          896 00:46:06,513 --> 00:46:09,483         rock and roll music,                  was arrested Monday         897 00:46:09,475 --> 00:46:10,975      shortly after a dead woman                  was found...             898 00:46:11,018 --> 00:46:13,228      [reporter 2] Known as much            for his bizarre behavior       899 00:46:13,228 --> 00:46:15,478      as for his musical genius.      900 00:46:16,815 --> 00:46:18,565      [Richard] We were receiving                  phone calls             901 00:46:18,567 --> 00:46:21,067      while we were in the midst              of our investigation         902 00:46:21,069 --> 00:46:25,239            that this thing               was on all the news channels.    903 00:46:25,991 --> 00:46:29,241  At the time, the general feeling             in Los Angeles            904 00:46:29,244 --> 00:46:32,294         was that no celebrity        905 00:46:32,331 --> 00:46:34,331        would ever be convicted                   of anything.             906 00:46:34,374 --> 00:46:36,884     You know, you're on the heels              of the OJ trial,           907 00:46:36,919 --> 00:46:40,799          you're on the heels              of the Robert Blake trials.     908 00:46:41,590 --> 00:46:45,090      You know, he's someone also               who's always used          909 00:46:45,135 --> 00:46:47,005          to being in charge.         910 00:46:47,012 --> 00:46:50,432           Coming into this,           that was at the top of my mind--  911 00:46:50,474 --> 00:46:53,394      some big producer right now                   that is--              912 00:46:53,393 --> 00:46:55,403    they're looking at for murder.    913 00:46:55,395 --> 00:46:59,355            So, here we go,               here comes the next OJ trial.    914 00:47:02,361 --> 00:47:04,781      The interesting thing was,                 we did not know           915 00:47:04,822 --> 00:47:06,242          who the victim was.         916 00:47:06,281 --> 00:47:09,581         We later on received                     a phone call             917 00:47:09,576 --> 00:47:12,326          from an individual                 from the House of Blues       918 00:47:12,371 --> 00:47:14,501      who stated that he had seen                 Phil Spector             919 00:47:14,540 --> 00:47:18,000       leave with his coworker,                  Lana Clarkson.            920 00:47:18,001 --> 00:47:20,551        [reporter] The victim,             a beautiful B-movie actress     921 00:47:20,587 --> 00:47:24,797         named Lana Clarkson,               with 17 movie appearances      922 00:47:24,842 --> 00:47:26,552         and her own website.         923 00:47:26,552 --> 00:47:28,302      [reporter 2] Lana Clarkson               was writing a book,         924 00:47:28,345 --> 00:47:29,845         according to reports,                    about the men            925 00:47:29,888 --> 00:47:31,388       she's known in Hollywood.      926 00:47:31,431 --> 00:47:33,311           First reports say                     she and Spector           927 00:47:33,308 --> 00:47:34,518          hadn't met before.          928 00:47:34,518 --> 00:47:36,558         That is now in doubt,                 some sources saying         929 00:47:36,562 --> 00:47:38,362       they had known each other                 for some time.            930 00:47:38,397 --> 00:47:40,437         [Nicole] The next day                    of the event,            931 00:47:40,482 --> 00:47:44,612           my dad called me               and was like, "Hey, I'm okay,    932 00:47:44,653 --> 00:47:46,863         "you know, I'm fine.         933 00:47:47,739 --> 00:47:50,869         Don't worry about me,            you know, keep your chin up."    934 00:47:50,909 --> 00:47:52,699       He just wanted me to know                  he was okay,             935 00:47:52,703 --> 00:47:54,043     everything was gonna be okay,    936 00:47:54,079 --> 00:47:55,959          there was this huge                   misunderstanding,          937 00:47:55,956 --> 00:47:57,536    and it was getting worked out.    938 00:47:57,583 --> 00:48:00,793       I didn't-- I didn't have               any questions for him        939 00:48:00,794 --> 00:48:03,094          other, like, than,                     "Are you okay?"           940 00:48:04,298 --> 00:48:08,638     It never seemed a possibility    941 00:48:08,677 --> 00:48:10,967      that he would have actually               murdered someone.          942 00:48:11,013 --> 00:48:12,313          We would sometimes                   have conversations          943 00:48:12,306 --> 00:48:14,516     where he'd be like, "I don't        know what the fuck's going on,    944 00:48:14,558 --> 00:48:16,138           "like, this woman                   came into my house.         945 00:48:16,184 --> 00:48:22,114    Apparently, she shot herself,"               and, you know,            946 00:48:22,149 --> 00:48:24,359            he was baffled.           947 00:48:24,359 --> 00:48:27,149          We have to be fair                     to Phil Spector           948 00:48:27,195 --> 00:48:29,565          and his allegation.         949 00:48:29,615 --> 00:48:32,575             We have to go                   through Lana Clarkson.        950 00:48:35,871 --> 00:48:37,871       [Paul] There were pieces                   of her teeth             951 00:48:37,873 --> 00:48:41,593            that she had--                     her two front teeth         952 00:48:41,585 --> 00:48:45,875          had been blown out                  during this gunshot,         953 00:48:45,881 --> 00:48:49,131          and they were found                     on the floor,            954 00:48:49,176 --> 00:48:51,796    and I believe a piece was even        all the way to the stairway--    955 00:48:51,803 --> 00:48:54,853    again, maybe 10, 12 feet away.    956 00:48:54,848 --> 00:48:56,518          There was a couple                    of bloody towels.          957 00:48:56,558 --> 00:48:59,138          One was actually--              it turned out to be a diaper.    958 00:49:00,437 --> 00:49:01,977     Ultimately it was collected.     959 00:49:01,980 --> 00:49:04,940     Ultimately it was turned over              to the crime lab.          960 00:49:06,818 --> 00:49:07,988     There was a lot of evidence,     961 00:49:08,028 --> 00:49:11,448           but there was no               definitive proof of anything.    962 00:49:15,077 --> 00:49:17,367              Now, again,                you have to look at someone's--  963 00:49:17,412 --> 00:49:19,712          you know, that day,                      their past,             964 00:49:19,748 --> 00:49:23,248    how they've been, their moods,           what occurred at work.        965 00:49:23,251 --> 00:49:25,551    You know, you gotta go with all      these little bits and pieces.    966 00:49:25,545 --> 00:49:27,835         Is someone suicidal,                     are they not?            967 00:49:27,839 --> 00:49:29,969  Like, how do you determine that?  968 00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:33,390             It has to be                       by what they call          969 00:49:33,387 --> 00:49:37,097          this forensic look                      at her life.             970 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:46,480                I'm sorry                         that I met you           971 00:49:48,902 --> 00:49:55,452       Now I only just regret you   972 00:49:55,450 --> 00:49:59,120          I remember the night       973 00:49:59,121 --> 00:50:03,671              When you first                      held me tight            974 00:50:03,667 --> 00:50:10,717            Ohh, now I'm sorry                    that I met you           975 00:50:13,552 --> 00:50:18,892                I was lost                       in the hurricane          976 00:50:18,890 --> 00:50:21,770           La-la-la, la-la-la        977 00:50:21,810 --> 00:50:27,070              All my friends                   thought I was insane        978 00:50:27,065 --> 00:50:28,975         La-la-la, la-la-la-la       979 00:50:29,026 --> 00:50:32,146            You knew me when         980 00:50:32,154 --> 00:50:36,664              We were both                         just friends            981 00:50:36,658 --> 00:50:42,748             But I knew that                I'd love you till the end      982 00:50:46,960 --> 00:52:10,170   I'm sorry that I met you...     123449

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