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# Don't you remember you told me you loved me, baby... #
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There was something magical about the way Richard and Karen worked together.
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That's the beginning.
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# Sharing horizons that are new to us... #
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Karen Carpenter could sing the phonebook and it would sound good!
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Her voice was like a piece of silk.
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Patsy Cline was the closest to me. Both of them shared the same emotion.
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And it was struggle and depression.
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# I'm on the top of the world... #
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When she was forced out from behind the drums to the front,
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she didn't enjoy it at all.
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# ..I can find... #
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I think that Richard and Karen both could have extremely viable careers today,
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had some different decisions been reached then.
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# Every... #
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All of our success came from the records.
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You don't forget the records and go touring around the world.
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She was the most truthful person I think I've ever met.
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But she lied like a trooper about the anorexia situation.
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# Only yesterday... #
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Every now and then, we throw that word around - "it". That person has it.
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Well, she had the "it" whatever the "it" is! She had it.
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# And it's the way Only yesterday... #
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The story began in New Haven, Connecticut,
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with Richard and Karen being born into a typical suburban middle-class family.
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I was born with an interest in music.
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By the time I was two-and-a-half or three, I was
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interested in the records that my dad was playing.
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He had quite an extensive and eclectic collection of 78s which I wanted to get at.
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# Here's what a world
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# Is waiting for this summer... #
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Les Paul and Mary Ford probably had the biggest impact on me...
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well, with anybody,
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because of the over-dubbed sound.
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With these four switches, I can take Mary's voice and multiply it.
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And with this switch right here, I can take the one guitar and multiply it into an orchestra.
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Right there, by the time I was four-years-old - left such an impression on me.
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And I couldn't figure... I knew it was Mary Ford.
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Mary's voice...
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# All alone... #
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Two voices...
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# Of you I'm dreaming... #
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So I asked my mother, "How do you do that?"
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What's my mother going to say? Nobody knew, except at that time,
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Les and Mary and a couple of people in the business!
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So it was like, how do you get to Carnegie Hall?
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Practice. My mother said, "She practises."
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# All night long... #
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So I'm going around the house at four or five years old going...
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# Mm-mm-mm... # ..trying to get all these voices to come out.
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And later I learned.
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# All night long... #
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Karen, when I think back on it, would be downstairs and she'd sing it.
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And, boy, did we take to it - Karen and I! The whole multi-track thing.
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# And all the stars there never were
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# Are parking cars and pumping gas... #
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My mom wanted me to have piano lessons and I just didn't like it!
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So, after a year, it was mutually agreed between my folks and the teacher -
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"He really doesn't seem to have much talent or interest in..."
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But several years later, all of a sudden, I'm picking things up by ear and I found I could...
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- PIANO FLOURISH
- ..do this kind of stuff
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all on my own and play by ear. And so by now, my parents said, "We need to find him another teacher."
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I think Agnes was a great mom. I think she knew what she wanted for her children.
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I think she had insight for Richard.
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And I think she loved her children dearly.
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During the summer, the windows are open, everybody's outside playing in the street,
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and Richard would be playing his musical scales up and down the piano.
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I think Richard's parents, Agnes and Harold, were beginning to
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feel that Richard really had talent, and there's two places you should go if you have musical talent -
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either New York or California.
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# If everybody had an ocean across the USA... #
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So, in 1963, the Carpenter family took off in search
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of the American dream...
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# Californ-i-a... #
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..to a land that was fast becoming a place of free spirits, open hearts and a vibrant music scene.
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The story is that they moved here to further my career,
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but the number one reason was my Dad wanted to get the hell out of the cold.
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And I was right with him!
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# Everybody's gone surfin'... #
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We never regretted making this move but Karen wasn't so happy.
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She had a bunch of friends back there. It turned out there was a heatwave the first Christmas,
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so she didn't like that.
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But she got over it.
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Richard soon established himself as a local talent,
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and joined the college choir playing piano.
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CHOIR SINGS
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It was in my first year of college, that I'd gotten to know a fella named Wes Jacobs,
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who turns out to be a tuba major,
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but I found out he could play upright bass.
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I was just taken immediately by his talent.
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And we got together shortly after that,
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me with my bass, and Richard on the piano.
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And we experimented to see what we could do together.
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Karen was fascinated with the drumming,
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cos I said, "You can get out of phys-ed if you're in the marching band."
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Karen did not want to be in phys-ed.
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And I wanted also to get out of geometry cos I just don't get it!
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And when I got into marching band, I immediately fell in love with the drums.
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Richard mentioned that his sister, who was still in high school at the time,
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was learning to play the drums, and perhaps we could form a trio.
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'The Carpenter Trio...'
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The Richard Carpenter Trio went on to win the prestigious Battle Of The Bands Contest at the Hollywood Bowl.
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And an RCA talent scout intrigued by their rock-tuba sound,
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offered them a record deal.
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I was a budding A&R man myself, and I knew damn well rock tuba was going nowhere!
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And we cut the four sides and - a committee, you know, a committee listened to them,
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and of course said, "Erhhh!"
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And that was it for our deal with RCA.
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# We'll be in Denver
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# Dancin' in the street... #
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Every now and again I'd ask Karen to sing.
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And she'd do it almost under duress.
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# Oh, it doesn't matter what you wear
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# Just as long as you are there... #
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Karen was a little hesitant actually about singing,
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and I think for some period of time, she really wanted to play the drums.
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The breakthrough, in a way, this is the key I wrote it in,
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was one called You'll Love Me.
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- The melody was...
- HE PLAYS
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# They say we're too young to ever know a love... #
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- It happens to be right...
- HE PLAYS A NOTE
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And out came that sound.
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# And I'll know you'll stay-ay-ay
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# And I know you'll love me... #
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And I heard it... Oh!
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There's something here. There is something here!
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Richard formed a vocal group calleed Spectrum,
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included in the line-up was college friend, John Bettis
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and a creative partnership soon developed.
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Richard was so noticeable because of his talent, for one thing.
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He was an amazing pianist then as he is now.
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So everybody knew who Richard was.
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# Yesterday I thought you'd stay... #
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Karen was having a whale of a good time.
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It was really play-time, in a way.
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A lot of hard work, but we were all together, there was a lot of laughs, a lot of fun, a lot of music.
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Renowned West Coast musician Joe Osborne had long supported Richard and Karen,
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letting them record in his garage studio and helping them refine their sound.
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He was also a very important studio bass player and also close friends with The Mamas & Papas.
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# All the leaves are brown
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# All the leaves are brown
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# And the sky is grey... #
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And so he, for some reason, had access to The Mamas & Papas' equipment.
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And we got a possibility to do an audition for a private club in Los Angeles called The Factory.
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And so we were very excited, and we didn't really have proper equipment.
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So Joe allowed us to borrow The Mamas & Papas' equipment.
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It had white-stencilled on it "Mamas & Papas"!
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Mamas & Papas! Mamas & Papas!
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So we were on stage doing our best to stand in front of it!
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And who walked in, but Cass Elliot?!
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HE LAUGHS
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We were so busted!
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# California dreamin'... #
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By mid-1968, a string of rejections had taken their toll on Spectrum
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and tensions started to build so the group split.
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Richard then formed The Carpenters with sister Karen.
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# Don't be afraid to love and get loved... #
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In mid-'68 we made this demo. It ended up on Herb Alpert's desk.
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And he heard the potential and that was it. We signed with A&M in April 1969.
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# It knows how to make you sing... #
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Usually I just close my eyes when listening to a new tape,
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and I did on this occasion,
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and all of a sudden this amazing voice came out of my speakers.
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And it seemed like it was sitting next to me on the couch.
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It was a real special...
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God-given, you know, instrument that I had never heard quite like that before.
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# You need cooling, baby I'm not fooling... #
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You have to understand that at that time, the world was turning into serious rock'n'roll.
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And here were these amazing kids
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doing this incredible pop material.
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We were in the era of Stones, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, whatever.
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That was the problem. We had a whole bunch of people who were hairy rock fans.
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And if their mum liked The Carpenters, then you weren't going to like them.
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Most of the people at A&M didn't want us there.
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And they were trying to talk Herb into cutting his losses and just letting them go.
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But I always felt that they had that special ingredient,
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because they were so unique in what they were doing.
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They were so honest about what they were doing.
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I thought it was just a matter of time before before the audience would catch up to them.
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I was 22 and Karen was 19.
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And we were given carte blanche.
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# I think I'm gonna be sad
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# I think it's today... #
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The first album yielded the ballad version of Ticket To Ride
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which is mighty good and got on the charts at least.
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A&M was going through a rough period in 1969,
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probably the worst year in their history.
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# He's got a ticket to ride... #
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It sold substantially enough and got enough airplay,
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that it definitely deserved another shot.
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# He's got a ticket to ride
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# And he don't care... #
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What they obviously needed was a great song,
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and an arrangement, a production that would really present them in a great way.
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The search was on for the next song, and Herb Alpert turned to A&M song writer, Burt Bacharach,
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for that crucial chart-topping hit.
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Herbie said I have a record, but I don't want you to hear it, I don't want anything to influence
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your arrangement except, after the first bridge, there are two quintuplets - piano.
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One octave and then down an octave.
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So in our key, which turned out to be G, it would be...
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HE PLAYS QUINTUPLETS
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# Why do birds suddenly appear
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# Every time you are near
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# Just like me they long to be
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# Close to you... #
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This thing took shape.
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And we started adding things to it. People were doing what they weren't supposed to do -
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studio protocol, and etiquette and all of that -
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you were not supposed to push open a door and walk in the recording studio!
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But people were - they'd push open the door and say, "What is this?
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"I've never heard anything like this! This is sensational!"
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# On the day that you were born The angels got together
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# And decided to create a dream come true
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# So they sprinkled moondust in your hair
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# Of gold and starlight in your eyes of blue... #
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When it's done, Herb plays it down the phone to Burt,
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and...well, smash!
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# ..all around
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# Just like me
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# They long to be close to you... #
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It came in at 56, 37, 14, 7, 3, 1.
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Then it stayed there for a month.
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It was just one of those things you hear, and you say, "What did I do to deserve this?"
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# Wah-ah-ha-ah
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# Close to you... #
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When the wah came on, they went, "OK, that works."
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# Wah-ah-ha-ah... #
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I was driving along on a street in Connecticut, had the radio on,
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and I heard them singing Close To You - their first big hit.
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I almost hit the telephone pole.
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Wow, that's Karen and Richard. Oh, it's beautiful.
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It's all of your dreams coming true. You can't put it into words. It's so exciting.
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You go from having time on your hands to not having enough time in the day.
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Looking for a follow-up to Close To You, Richard knew of an A&M writing team -
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Roger Nichols and Paul Williams - whom he particularly admired.
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Paul would drop by and sing with us when we were rehearsing in the sound stage,
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so I was well aware of his voice.
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# We've only just begun
239
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:10,160
# To live... #
240
00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,360
This really good commercial comes on.
241
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,280
I knew it was Paul immediately, which means it's a Nichols/Williams song.
242
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,600
And I'm thinking, "This sounds like a hit record to me."
243
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,240
A bank commercial fell out of television set.
244
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,960
# We've only just begun... #
245
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:30,560
Richard just heard it and he was on the phone, probably before the programme went back on, saying,
246
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,800
"Is that a whole song? Please tell me that's a whole song!"
247
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:39,840
So I saw Paul and I said, "This song - We've Only Just Begun - does it have a bridge in the third verse."
248
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,160
"Yes, it does."
249
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,880
# We start our walking and learn to run... #
250
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:48,760
I mean, "Oh, I can't wait to get this out. This is a hit."
251
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,320
# We've only just begun
252
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,360
# To live
253
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:04,360
# White lace and promises
254
00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:10,400
# A kiss for luck and we're on our way
255
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,240
# We've only begun
256
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:21,000
# Before the rising sun we fly... #
257
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,200
That was the sky-diving moment for Richard.
258
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:28,160
That was like, when he got... When he caught that, it was like, "Great!"
259
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:32,520
Because that was a gift from the gods to have We've Only Just Begun laying there.
260
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:38,240
# And yes we've just begun... #
261
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,960
Well, as soon as Close To You was on its way down,
262
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:48,440
Begun... And that became the wedding song for a generation.
263
00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:59,040
As the records continued to sell, A&M struggled with marketing the wholesome brother-and-sister duo.
264
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,080
Richard always said he liked the phrase, "Goody-four-shoes!"
265
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:03,960
Not goody-two-shoes,
266
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:08,120
even though it was indeed making fun of how squeaky clean their image was.
267
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:11,400
They did wear sweaters, they did have schoolboy haircuts,
268
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:12,840
they did sing nice songs.
269
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,160
And she did do needle-point, you know!
270
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,360
It ain't very rock'n'roll.
271
00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:23,880
And A&M records, not to their credit, played that up even more with the artwork and the album covers.
272
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,080
They just didn't know how to package us.
273
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,680
I really put up a fuss over the Close To You one,
274
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,800
because it was a rush-job.
275
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,040
And management said nothing about it and to this day,
276
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,400
that thing is still in print, thankfully,
277
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,600
because it's a good album but it is one crappy cover.
278
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,000
Their image on the album covers was not the only problem.
279
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,080
They realised Karen's own presentation needed some work.
280
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:04,760
# Love, look at the two of us
281
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:10,200
# Strangers in many ways... #
282
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:15,920
Richard and I tried desperately to get her away from the drums.
283
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,640
And that's something, early on, we had to work on,
284
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,320
because she wanted to drum and sing.
285
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,760
People did not want to see her behind the drums.
286
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,920
She was only 5'4", she had this huge drum kit
287
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,880
and it was tough to see her.
288
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,480
# Aaaaahhhhhh... #
289
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,720
She was very, very happy being Richard's sister
290
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,840
and not being the star of the group.
291
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,440
She had no desire to stand up and be out in front.
292
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,160
Very shy
293
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,960
and she found her ground, literally, behind that drum set.
294
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:56,520
And when they finally said,
295
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,480
"You're gonna go out front and hold that microphone,"
296
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,600
I think she was terrified the first few times.
297
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,840
# ..I knew you well
298
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:09,400
# For only time
299
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,680
# Will tell us so
300
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:18,880
# And love may grow for all we know... #
301
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,560
I've never felt it was a coincidence that Karen played the drums.
302
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,040
So when she was forced out from behind the drums to the front,
303
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:43,800
she didn't enjoy it at all.
304
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,320
But it was a must.
305
00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,880
She couldn't... she HAD to be out front,
306
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,200
that's where people wanted to see her.
307
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:53,400
This was the voice.
308
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:58,920
# Talking to myself and feeling old
309
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,520
# Sometimes I'd like to quit... #
310
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,960
There's so many singers that you turn to one another and say,
311
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,280
"Was that so and so?"
312
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:12,240
Karen Carpenter sang two notes and you knew exactly who it was.
313
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:17,080
# ..Rainy days and Mondays always get me down... #
314
00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:19,840
She'd be rehearsing a song in the car
315
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,000
and you could barely hear her voice.
316
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,160
# ..What I've got they used to call the blues... #
317
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,600
But then you'd do into the studio
318
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,720
and you'd hear her sing it on a microphone
319
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,760
and the microphone loved Karen Carpenter's voice.
320
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,000
It was like velvet.
321
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,280
It was like something I've never, ever heard before.
322
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:46,320
# ..Rainy days and Mondays always get me down... #
323
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,200
She had an incredible tone in her voice,
324
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,160
it was rich and full and it was barely a whisper
325
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,120
but it sounded really strong.
326
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:59,480
# Long ago
327
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,800
# And oh so far away... #
328
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,440
You cannot touch that emotion today. There's no way. There's nobody.
329
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,960
There's nobody out there that's touching that.
330
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,640
Patsy Cline was the closest. To me, both of them shared the same emotion.
331
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,520
And it was struggle and depression.
332
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,520
# Your guitar... #
333
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:28,680
You saw this fabulous girl out front singing the songs with such emotion,
334
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,120
but, again, through her vulnerability,
335
00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:34,400
she really felt those lyrics.
336
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,520
And so to watch The Carpenters, that's what you were getting -
337
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,480
the most incredible interpretation of wonderful songs.
338
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:46,880
# Don't you remember you told me you loved me, baby
339
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:52,360
# You said you'd be coming back this way again, baby
340
00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:58,080
# Baby, baby, baby, baby Oh, baby
341
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,880
# I love you
342
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,040
# I really do
343
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,640
I can't sit here after all these years
344
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,960
and tell you she actually lost herself in it.
345
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:16,560
Karen could walk in and sing a lot of these things just in one take.
346
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,360
I feel that there was something bigger going on,
347
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:23,040
that we probably will never know what was going on
348
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,960
because that voice had too much soul, too much heartbreak, too much pain in it
349
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,240
to be just an insecurity.
350
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,760
# Loneliness
351
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:40,560
# Is such a sad affair... #
352
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,880
Karen and I were at a restaurant in Los Angeles
353
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:47,920
and Karen and I were walking out having had dinner
354
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,120
and John Lennon was walking in
355
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,760
and as he drew up to us, he stopped
356
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,520
and just looked at her and said, "I wanna tell you, love, you've got a fabulous voice,"
357
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:00,880
and just walked on.
358
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,560
She was absolutely incredulous about it.
359
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,040
She couldn't believe it. "He couldn't have meant it. Did he mean it?"
360
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:13,160
I said, "Well, of course he meant it.
361
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:19,640
"This was Lennon. Why on Earth would he stop to tell you you've got a great voice if he didn't think so?"
362
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,200
But she had a problem believing it, she really did.
363
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,720
# I love you
364
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,120
# I really do. #
365
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:37,240
We would ask her to come and sing at a charity event a cappella.
366
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,640
She was never comfortable doing that
367
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,640
and that's because she wanted Richard's arrangements and Richard there
368
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:50,520
and I feel like I don't think she knew just what a raw, beautiful, melodic voice she possessed.
369
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:57,520
She wanted to have it surrounded by the expertise of her brother.
370
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,280
For all the beauty of Karen's voice,
371
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,360
ultimately Richard was the key behind The Carpenters' unique sound.
372
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:10,040
# After long enough of being alone... #
373
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,600
There are many songs that they did that I thought were quite amazing.
374
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,320
I think it comes down to the way they were arranged.
375
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,680
Richard had a lot to do with the way the orchestration worked.
376
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,240
# The pain I was going through... #
377
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,320
Richard was and is an astonishing instrumentalist.
378
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,520
A great tune-writer.
379
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:38,640
Richard had this magic gift of not only WRITING great songs,
380
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,760
but knowing where to find great songs and how to pick them out.
381
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:48,920
# Maybe you can't see how much you mean to me... #
382
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:52,680
Richard kind of ranks right up there with Brian Wilson to me.
383
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,720
He had the same kind of perfectionism
384
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,960
and really did some interesting things with the productions and the arrangements he put together.
385
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,240
# And when I hold you
386
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,640
# baby, baby, feels like maybe things will be all right... #
387
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,200
Are the songs technically... Can I sit down and play them?
388
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,640
Yes, they are easy-breezy.
389
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,360
But could you match it and beat them? Absolutely not.
390
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:23,960
# Only yesterday when I was sad and I was lonely... #
391
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,800
As the hits kept coming, the demand for new material was high
392
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:32,400
and Richard asked A&M Records to find his old college friend and music partner,
393
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,280
whom he'd not seen since the Spectrum days.
394
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,880
I knew I'd see them again, you know what I mean?
395
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,480
I was very proud of and for them and I just had this instinct
396
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,600
that we would do lots of stuff together.
397
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,600
The first single and a hit that he and I put together was Goodbye To love.
398
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:51,360
# When you hear a real hepcat... #
399
00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,960
Late at night, we were home from the studio and they were running an old Bing Crosby film
400
00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:03,000
and Bing played a ghostwriter to the successful Basil Rathbone, who was going through a dry spell.
401
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,680
Nothing will ever quite come up to Goodbye To Love.
402
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,360
Ah, I wrote that myself...
403
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:12,400
I mean, er... That really came from my heart.
404
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:17,240
Rathbone's most famous song is called Goodbye To Love.
405
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,480
You never hear it, they just refer to it. "Oh, he wrote Goodbye To Love."
406
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:26,640
It's no use, Willy. I haven't been able to write a good song on my own since Goodbye To Love.
407
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,160
And I heard that title and pictured...
408
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:40,040
..the opening, "I'll say goodbye to love, no-one should ever care if I live or die."
409
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,200
That's all the lyrics I came up with but I like the...
410
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:52,000
# And all I know of love is how to live without it
411
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,360
# I just can't seem to find it
412
00:27:56,360 --> 00:28:00,720
# So I've made my mind up I must live my life alone... #
413
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,840
Constructing the arrangement to Goodbye To Love,
414
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:09,440
I, er, pictured something that was a little off the beaten path,
415
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:14,840
two things that ordinarily don't go together, which would be a melodic fuzz guitar solo.
416
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,200
I didn't think it was a good idea but what do I know?
417
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:23,960
It's a soft ballad
418
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,960
and nobody had ever put rock'n'roll guitars on a ballad.
419
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,840
We heard it on the radio and we were all up in Richard's room listening
420
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,640
and then the DJ said, "And there's The Carpenters doing a Jimi Hendrix song."
421
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,440
They just had to make cracks about it.
422
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,080
The DJs couldn't help themselves cos it was so odd.
423
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,160
Richard actually got hate mail
424
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:58,480
based on the fact that he'd sullied The Carpenters by using a fuzz tone electric guitar.
425
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,640
We actually wrote Goodbye To Love on one day and Top Of The World on the other.
426
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,520
It was a good two-day period!
427
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,880
# On top of the world looking down... #
428
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,480
It was 1973 and The Carpenters were "on top of the world"
429
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,960
while America was in turmoil, with troops being pulled out of Vietnam
430
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,680
and President Nixon was on the road to impeachment.
431
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,640
# Your love's put me at the top of the world... #
432
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,520
Their success was not only domestic.
433
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,560
They were now truly international superstars.
434
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,320
To come to a foreign country,
435
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,200
it's really hard for you to think
436
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,840
that somebody who's never seen you ever
437
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,160
can automatically spot you, you know?
438
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,400
But with the strain of being in the spotlight and a relentless schedule,
439
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,320
the cracks were beginning to show.
440
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,560
She definitely, as she was a little older,
441
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,960
began to worry about the weight thing.
442
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,920
I can remember Karen reading and being hurt by quotes.
443
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:14,560
I don't know if they said "Cherubic", "plump". I said, "Why does that bother you?"
444
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,960
And she said, "But it never leaves me."
445
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,600
And it became a real monument for her.
446
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,440
Karen stayed so basic.
447
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,880
She wanted the white picket fence.
448
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:31,240
She just wanted to get married, have children, be cooking Thanksgiving dinners
449
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,560
and that was her real goal in life.
450
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,680
But then she got into this early success
451
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,800
and then you're driven and you want more success
452
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,080
and you have to perform and you have to keep on the merry-go-round
453
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,800
and I think that took its toll on her eventually.
454
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,160
JAPANESE NEWSREADER SPEAKS
455
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,880
The amount of touring in '74 was nuts.
456
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,880
It wasn't only all of Vegas and Tahoe,
457
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,400
it was also the UK and it was Japan and it was nutty.
458
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,400
When the hell you gonna make an album?
459
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,400
Richard, I think to this day, feels like he toured too much.
460
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,680
Test one, two, test. Richard Carpenter.
461
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,760
Somebody listen to me.
462
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,320
I think it was partly their own desire
463
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:28,120
to realise upon this great opportunity that they had.
464
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,000
They'd been working towards this for so many years.
465
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,640
We had been so laser-focused on success
466
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:43,520
and once it came, we knew that you could not let it go.
467
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,760
And, er, our personal lives were kinda over there
468
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,840
and that left a huge hole.
469
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:57,360
They had a manager and an agent who frankly profited greatly from booking them.
470
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,320
It wasn't very smart.
471
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,040
All of our success sprang from the records
472
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,640
so you don't forget the records and go touring around the world.
473
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,240
I don't think he was ever truly happy on the road
474
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,680
because once there was an audience,
475
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,240
the audience obviously loved and adored Karen.
476
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:28,920
There was tremendous love and respect between the two of them,
477
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:33,200
but I think Richard was jealous.
478
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,200
DRUM ROLL
479
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,160
Ladies and gentlemen, Mr Richard Carpenter.
480
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,560
APPLAUSE
481
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:45,280
'You couldn't go and explain to the thousands of people every night'
482
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:50,640
who were sitting out in the audience, "I wrote this. I produced it."
483
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,400
What they came and they saw is, "She's singing it."
484
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,520
He looks like a piano player back there,
485
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,440
even though we had lights on him and all of that.
486
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:07,200
# Learning all the latest records From the radio by ear
487
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:12,680
# And I was dreaming I'd be famous when the big surprise appeared
488
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,600
# She was a five foot four tornado
489
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,480
# A pair of drumsticks in her hand... #
490
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,080
I think it bothered Richard that his contribution wasn't recognised
491
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,840
as much as it should have been.
492
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,840
Because he really was the force.
493
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:40,760
They did go around the roses at times but I think the relationship was really sweet. It was tender.
494
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,840
I think they admired each other.
495
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,200
You never saw such support in your life between artist and producer
496
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,320
back and forth as you did with those two. And it paid off.
497
00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,120
# Stop! Oh, yes Wait a minute, Mr Postman
498
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,560
- # Wait
- Wait a minute, Mr Postman
499
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,960
# Please, Mr Postman Look and see... #
500
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,040
Where earlier I said I was tripping over the songs,
501
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,560
I wasn't tripping over them so much any more.
502
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:17,680
It was getting harder and harder to find really good ones.
503
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,160
# There must be some word today
504
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,720
# From my boyfriend so far away... #
505
00:34:23,720 --> 00:34:26,280
To be honest, Richard procrastinated writing.
506
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,280
He'd have ideas but wouldn't force himself to sit down and flesh them out.
507
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,760
I didn't feel comfortable saying, "We've gotta write a song!"
508
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,800
# If there's a letter in your bag for me... #
509
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,560
And of course we were human and the bloom was off the rose.
510
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,720
It wasn't as exciting as it was when it all first happened.
511
00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:47,640
It wouldn't be for anybody.
512
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,640
By 1975, the constant touring and studio work
513
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,720
had taken their toll on Karen's health with visible effect.
514
00:34:55,720 --> 00:34:59,240
I hadn't seen them in a while. I was away for the summer
515
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:05,280
and when I got back to the States, I went to Las Vegas to go see them
516
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:11,200
and I was quite appalled at what her appearance was.
517
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,000
She had lost considerable weight.
518
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,000
She was normally loaded with energy
519
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:24,640
and in Vegas, she was having to have a lie down between shows, which is not like her,
520
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:29,280
and of course she was too thin
521
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,320
and she'd come out in what she thought she looked great in
522
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,120
and the audience would gasp.
523
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,320
- It's The Carpenters!
- APPLAUSE
524
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,160
- # Stop
- Oh yes, wait a minute, Mr Postman
525
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,840
- # Wait
- Wai-ai-ai-ait, Mr Postman
526
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,320
- # Mr Postman, look and see
- Oh yeah... #
527
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,920
Usually it was Richard or I, Richard mostly,
528
00:35:54,920 --> 00:36:00,640
who would convince her not to go out without putting on a jacket
529
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:07,640
because she had gotten so thin, there were truthfully people who came up to me
530
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,000
and were convinced that she had cancer.
531
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,600
# If there's a letter A letter for me... #
532
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,200
We just thought she was being compulsive in her dieting and in her exercising.
533
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:24,240
We would always encourage her to eat and if we were all out to dinner,
534
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:29,080
she would have a habit of saying, "This is delicious. Taste this."
535
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:34,880
And she'd put it on your plate. Before you knew it, she had put food on other people's plates
536
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,680
and she wasn't eating very much.
537
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:38,840
# Stop! #
538
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,200
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
539
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,560
We all knew that something was wrong,
540
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,840
but we just didn't know what we were dealing with.
541
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,280
They were supposed to then go immediately to Japan
542
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:56,960
and I really didn't see how she could even survive such a trip, you know.
543
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:02,400
Literally, it was bad. She was rather gaunt.
544
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:10,320
Our secretary of many a year, Evelyn Wallace, happened to read an article on eating disorders.
545
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,200
It mentioned anorexia nervosa. She brought it to our attention,
546
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,600
we looked at it and said, "This looks like it."
547
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,360
# There's a kind of hush
548
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,400
# All over the world tonight
549
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,320
# All over the world
550
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,840
# You can hear the sound of lovers in love
551
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,080
# You know what I mean
552
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:33,640
# Just the two of us... #
553
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,840
You had two people in The Carpenters -
554
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,720
Karen Carpenter, who was killing herself with anorexia
555
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:44,480
that no-one in her family would recognise or do anything about
556
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:51,640
and Richard Carpenter, falling further and further into a world of Quaaludes.
557
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:55,160
# Whisper in your ear "I love you"... #
558
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,280
There was a sleeping pill at the time.
559
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,880
Not being a party animal, I didn't know it was being used recreationally.
560
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:07,240
It was prescribed by my doctor and taken properly, it was damn good,
561
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:13,240
but it had a side effect of making you a little bit high is what it did
562
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:16,520
and I kind of enjoyed that at the end of the day
563
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,920
and it got out of hand after a few years,
564
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:25,920
certainly by '76/'77, I was in trouble.
565
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,000
# It isn't a dream
566
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,600
# The only sound that you will hear
567
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,240
# Is when I whisper in your ear
568
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:41,280
# I love you... #
569
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:47,120
It didn't help that that was going on at the same time Karen was experiencing her problems.
570
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:52,360
That meant both of them in their own way were chaotic.
571
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,400
Instead of getting a little bit annoyed that somebody did this thing
572
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,200
you'd be raging because somebody did that thing.
573
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,640
Things came to a head between Richard and his manager
574
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,560
while on tour.
575
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,240
# You can shout 'We're all brothers'
576
00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:10,320
# And even pretend... #
577
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:15,160
They were playing in Las Vegas. Neil Sedaka was the opening act,
578
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,680
The Carpenters came on afterward.
579
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:24,440
And Tom Jones had come from the hotel he was working in to see the show.
580
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:29,920
# ..For love is surrender You must surrender if you care... #
581
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,360
When there's a big entertainer who comes to the show,
582
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,200
the headliner - in this case, The Carpenters -
583
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,440
would introduce them.
584
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:46,240
Well, stupidly, Neil Sedaka, the opening act, introduced Tom Jones.
585
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:52,240
Because of that, I'm fired, he fired Neil Sedaka that night,
586
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:58,360
and subsequently Neil Sedaka fired me for putting him together with The Carpenters!
587
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,080
In need of a new manager,
588
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,840
The Carpenters turned to impresario Jerry Weintraub.
589
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:12,360
Jerry's plan was to take the duo in a different direction, with their own television special.
590
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,520
People are always asking why Karen plays the drums.
591
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,440
I can answer that in two words -
592
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:20,760
why not?!
593
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,880
But Richard still wasn't happy.
594
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:28,840
Mentally, I wasn't in the mood to be doing these things once we finally got one.
595
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,760
# And we'll have fun, fun, fun Now that daddy took the T-Bird away... #
596
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:38,600
And, secondly, I didn't want anything with skits, I didn't want canned laughter. I hate that.
597
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,640
LAUGHTER
598
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:47,440
Karen, on the other hand, just loved all of this stuff and... so she took to them.
599
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,560
By this point in time, when it came to the specials,
600
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,800
they really should have been Karen specials, because what do you do with me?
601
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,640
I'm a behind-the-scenes guy.
602
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:08,520
He was so nice about it, Richard was.
603
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:13,200
It didn't bother him how much screen time I gave her,
604
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:18,320
because he knew, by that time, that she was the star.
605
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,080
As I was walking to my car in the parking lot after the show,
606
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:32,360
Mrs Carpenter sidled up to me and said, "Bob, wasn't Richard wonderful?"
607
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,720
I had to stop a minute because...
608
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:41,400
for MY two cents' worth, that show would be remembered
609
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,800
for Karen Carpenter's vocalising.
610
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,000
# Are we really happy
611
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,840
# With this lonely game we play?
612
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:59,160
# Looking for the right words to say... #
613
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,240
I think Richard had been "the favourite" or the golden boy
614
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:06,280
while they were growing up
615
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,920
and, as a result,
616
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,960
she developed these feelings of low self-esteem and self-doubt.
617
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:17,960
# My funny valentine... #
618
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,080
Despite Karen's insecurities, the shows were a huge success.
619
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:26,120
But, for Richard, the sleeping tablets were causing serious problems.
620
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:32,280
I was getting to a point I couldn't even sign my name,
621
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,640
I couldn't play the piano worth a damn...
622
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,440
It was do something or die, is what it was.
623
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,520
So, with great support from family and friends,
624
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,680
I went off to a rehab.
625
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,400
January 10th 1979.
626
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,240
- How is he?
- Well, he's coming along. I talked to him last night.
627
00:42:51,240 --> 00:42:54,720
He feels a little better. What actually happened, seriously,
628
00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:59,760
two days before we were going to come over, he caught himself a real nice case of the flu...
629
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,960
I said to her, "Karen, I don't know why all of this has happened and it doesn't much matter.
630
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,800
"But I'm here taking care of my problem -
631
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,760
"it's time you face up to yours."
632
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,480
And I remember saying, "We can go into the '80s the same way we went into the '70s.
633
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:20,640
"We have our talent, our record contract...you know, we can set the world on fire again."
634
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:28,000
Ignoring Richard's pleas, Karen would not be deterred from her plan to record a solo album.
635
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:35,080
When she called, she wanted my blessing. "I can't go do this unless I know that you're behind it."
636
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:41,440
I said, "Other than the fact that I don't think you're well enough to do it...you certainly have my blessing!
637
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:47,240
"I know this is something you want. Not that it's any of my business,
638
00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:50,320
"but do me one favour - do not do disco!"
639
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:56,200
Disco was hot. "You are not cut out to do disco. This is not you."
640
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:05,600
Top New York record producer Phil Ramone took on the challenge of producing Karen's solo album.
641
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:07,800
It was an interesting challenge.
642
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:13,120
I did not want to go down the road of having an outside Carpenter producer,
643
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,600
which would be ridiculous for her and for me,
644
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,880
and tackle things that she really was too comfortable in.
645
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:25,640
# My body keeps changing my mind Keeps changing my heart... #
646
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,720
Well, they played it for the powers that be in A&M.
647
00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:34,440
Both Gerry Moss and Herb Alpert - and Richard - were in the control room.
648
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:39,640
And it was quite silent... the end of like three or four cuts,
649
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:46,160
and she's looking at me and I'm ready to bite my nails and I'm not sure what's going on...
650
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:50,320
It was rather negative, shall we say.
651
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,680
We didn't think it would get a really great reaction and...
652
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,080
we didn't want to have Karen go through that.
653
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:03,240
It's been reported through the years that I put the stake through it...
654
00:45:03,240 --> 00:45:07,800
or our mother came in and said, "Absolutely not."
655
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,280
It's all poppycock!
656
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:16,280
It was all up to Karen and she listened to all the people whose opinions she respected
657
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:22,840
and it was her decision...and she said, "We're not putting it out."
658
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,960
And that was the end of that.
659
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,600
If there was this lack of support and it wasn't the right move,
660
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:34,920
she would rather be known as The Carpenters, and it was easier to put on the shelf.
661
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:40,080
Work finally began on the next Carpenters' album.
662
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:44,120
But for Karen, a new distraction was just around the corner.
663
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:48,720
# As a child I was known for... #
664
00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:54,880
Well, we'd hardly gotten started on that in 1980, when she meets...this fellow...
665
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,880
Tom Burris.
666
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,120
# ..Like a child... #
667
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:06,720
He was a dashing real estate man and he had lots of personality and she was so happy.
668
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:09,760
# ..Finding answers to my prayer... #
669
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,120
Well, it seemed like they got along very well
670
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,440
but I never dreamed that two months later, they'd be married.
671
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,040
It was a whirlwind romance
672
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,200
and they got married on August 31st of 1980.
673
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:27,480
# ..It's a new day for those good old dreams
674
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,840
# And it's all because of you... #
675
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:35,240
She was very anxious to be married, but she picked the wrong guy.
676
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:41,200
It was the first time I'd been attracted on the first date.
677
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,480
Usually, you open the door and you go, "Argh!"
678
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,920
- But from then on, it...
- Degenerated.
679
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:54,880
I was worried about it and discussed with her the fact that there was some issues,
680
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,960
but she was determined.
681
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:06,480
I know that Karen's mom Agnes, and Harold, tried to counsel her that, you know...
682
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:12,680
you do have to be careful when you are in the arena that you're in,
683
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:18,760
that you marry someone that's not just after money or fame.
684
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:24,600
He had a jet plane and he had a boat and, er, lived lavishly.
685
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:30,680
At the end of the day, there was really nothing of financial substance left.
686
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:37,760
Even like the influence that her family had or that I had...
687
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,760
And he didn't treat her too well.
688
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:52,280
Ultimately, I think he reached the conclusion that the marriage was not successful
689
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,880
and wanted it terminated. And she agreed with that.
690
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,080
It was obviously a tough time for her
691
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:09,880
because with the marriage not working out and...
692
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:15,920
her being painfully thin, she had to know by this time that something was wrong.
693
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:19,960
# Such a feeling's coming over me... #
694
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:26,160
Richard talked to her about it. She went to New York to be in the care of a self-styled doctor.
695
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:31,800
TV: 'Steven Levenkron treated Karen Carpenter for anorexia...'
696
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:38,160
He said, "For all you know..." in so many words, "..when we get to the bottom of what this is,
697
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:42,920
"Karen may find out that she doesn't even enjoy being a singer."
698
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,000
And I'm thinking, "Bull-shit!"
699
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,320
# ..Is the love that I've found
700
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,520
# Ever since you've been around
701
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,520
# Your love's put me at the top of the world... #
702
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,600
I think the idea that she would never sing again was an exaggeration.
703
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:04,880
The sentiment was that she would like to be able to choose what she does.
704
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,560
But she probably would have loved to sing to some extent,
705
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,520
she just needed more say in who she was and how it all happened.
706
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:17,320
# Play us a song we can slow dance on
707
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:21,440
# We wanna hold each other... #
708
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,640
She came back out in April for a visit.
709
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:27,640
I mean, so thin!
710
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:34,160
She wanted to cut a few songs. She sounded marvellous - it didn't matter what shape she was in!
711
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,240
# ..Touch me when we're dancing
712
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:41,840
# You know you've got that loving touch... #
713
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:46,760
Karen headed back to New York, but her condition deteriorated
714
00:49:46,760 --> 00:49:51,120
and she was admitted to hospital weighing just 5� stone.
715
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:56,000
Here she is and I'm saying, "Karen, this is crap! Don't you understand?!
716
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,160
"You're going about this all the wrong way.
717
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:04,600
"This guy isn't getting anything accomplished cos you're in the hospital!"
718
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:12,080
When you don't know what's wrong with someone you love, usually, your reaction is to become afraid
719
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:16,760
and, when we get afraid, we quite often cover it with anger.
720
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:21,160
Unfortunately, putting her on the defensive would not have helped.
721
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,560
It doesn't usually help obsessionals.
722
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:28,280
There were rumours that you were suffering from anorexia nervosa.
723
00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:32,240
No, I was just pooped. I was tired out.
724
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:37,000
She was the most truthful person I've ever met about almost everything.
725
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:41,600
But she lied like a trooper about the anorexia situation.
726
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:47,760
- You went down to about six stone in weight, didn't you?
- I have no idea what six stone in weight is!
727
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:53,160
- It's very difficult to work out! About 84lb...
- No.
728
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,280
- No?
- No.
729
00:50:55,280 --> 00:51:01,720
The doctors said to be more physical, grab Karen and tell her you love her.
730
00:51:01,720 --> 00:51:05,400
Maybe, you know, she needs to hear that more.
731
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,520
And her mother was very hurt by that.
732
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:12,280
She loved Karen very deeply
733
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:18,520
and it just was very hurtful to hear doctors say, "Show her love."
734
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,800
By Thanksgiving, she's decided she wants to - of '82 -
735
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,280
she wants to come home.
736
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:34,800
We were just so glad to have her back, but we didn't feel that she was in any way a lot better.
737
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:39,600
We really differed with the doctor, I guess, on that point.
738
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:45,000
She had marvellous eyes. The eyes are the window to the soul.
739
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:49,280
I could see in her eyes that she was not well.
740
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:56,440
I reported this to our long-term financial advisor, who is still with me today,
741
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:02,440
and it got back to Karen who found out where I was - shopping, one particular evening.
742
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,680
When I walked out of the department store,
743
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:11,400
here's my Jaguar and here's her Jaguar. Oh-oh!
744
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:18,080
This is trouble! If she sought out where I am, then there's trouble!
745
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,080
And, oh, she read me the riot act!
746
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,080
"I supported you and you should support me!" And so on.
747
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:31,520
I said, "Karen, I'd support you through anything if I felt you were doing the right thing,
748
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:36,040
"but I can look right into your eyes and tell that you are not well!
749
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:41,640
"The only reason that I am raising red flags to the folks
750
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:45,560
"is because I believe you are still sick and I love you."
751
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:49,760
And am I glad I said that! Within weeks...
752
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,040
she was dead.
753
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:13,000
The last time I saw her, it was actually two days before she died,
754
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,760
she had come to my office
755
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:20,000
to review her divorce agreement...
756
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,320
from her husband.
757
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:27,200
And, er, it had to be revised in a couple of respects
758
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,800
so we made a date to sign it on Friday which was the day she died.
759
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:37,720
Karen Carpenter died today of cardiac arrest. She was just 32-years-old.
760
00:53:37,720 --> 00:53:44,280
A spokesman for the family said that Miss Carpenter had battled anorexia nervosa for years.
761
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:48,120
Anorexics are compulsive dieters, sometimes to the point of starvation.
762
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:54,120
No-one actually dies from anorexia nervosa -
763
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:59,720
it's complications due to. But it doesn't much matter in my book.
764
00:53:59,720 --> 00:54:05,200
She wasn't treated properly and that's all there is to it.
765
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:16,080
An autopsy failed to determine the cause of death of Karen Carpenter.
766
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:20,080
She died in California today at the age of 32 of cardiac arrest.
767
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,600
A coroner says it could take weeks to find out why she died.
768
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,560
I don't think we'll ever know what killed Karen.
769
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:33,440
I do agree with everything I've read that she didn't want to die. She wanted to stop the way things were
770
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:37,760
and I think she desperately wanted time for herself to think about
771
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:43,200
what she wanted out of her life. She felt she didn't have what she wanted.
772
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:48,360
But I do wish Karen had been here now because we know so much more now.
773
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:52,960
It wasn't that she had bad treatment, there wasn't enough knowledge.
774
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:59,360
# When I was young I'd listen to the radio
775
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:05,840
# Waiting for my favourite song... #
776
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:10,040
She was and will always be well loved and well remembered.
777
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,920
I will always love her voice.
778
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,400
Her legacy is going to be around for a long, long time.
779
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,960
# ..Those were such happy times
780
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:24,800
# And not so long ago How I wondered... #
781
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:32,120
I was picking up a gift this morning at the mall and heard a song that she was recording while we were dating
782
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:36,360
and just... I just got goosebumps.
783
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,360
It's still difficult after all this time.
784
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:46,760
# ..Every sha-la-la-la Every woh-oh-oh
785
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,240
# Still shines... #
786
00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:52,200
To me, nobody can touch Karen Carpenter's emotion.
787
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:56,520
That was from another... that was another place, another time.
788
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:00,080
# ..Starting to sing... #
789
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:07,920
This is a very sad day and, at the same time, a very special and beautiful day for my family and I.
790
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:13,400
My only regret is that Karen is not physically here to share it with us.
791
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:19,840
However, I know that she is very much alive in our minds and in our hearts.
792
00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:23,960
# ..It's yesterday once more... #
793
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,480
I certainly miss her.
794
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,600
We all do. The whole world does.
795
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:34,160
She's the greatest singer that ever lived and I got to play with her!
796
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,120
# ..Every sha-la-la-la... #
797
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:40,000
There's no stigma about liking them now. There's no stigma
798
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:45,320
about saying the Carpenters are fabulous. It's such a shame that Karen's not around to see that.
799
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,360
# ..Every shing-a-ling a-ling... #
800
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:52,360
To me, they are musically so superb,
801
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:56,360
they deserve to be a major part of the history of our industry..
802
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,760
# ..All my best memories... #
803
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:05,280
I get chills. I still do. Their music is so beautiful and what I love is that, er,
804
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:10,920
Richard is still able to have that success today
805
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,160
and impart it to his children and enjoy life.
806
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:18,720
I just wish that Karen were able to be in that position as well.
807
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:21,720
# ..Every sha-la-la-la
808
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:24,880
# Every woh-oh-oh
809
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,840
# Still shines
810
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,840
# Every shing-a-ling a-ling
811
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:40,120
# That they're starting to sing's so fine
812
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:44,120
# Every sha-la-la-la
813
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:47,520
# Every woh-oh-oh
814
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:50,920
# Still shines
815
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,800
# Every shing-a-ling a-ling
816
00:57:55,800 --> 00:58:02,760
# That they're starting to sing's so fine... #
73084
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