All language subtitles for Hart to Heart s02e10 Simu Liu.eng

**

-My guest today stars
in the film

"Shang-Chi and The Legend
of the Ten Rings,"

which is almost half a billion
dollars in the box office.

That's a big deal.

The movie already
has a sequel in the works,

and he won
a People's Choice Award

for Action Movie Star
of the Year.

And he also received the
People's Choice Award nomination

for movie star of 2021.

Please welcome Simu Liu.

What's going on, man?

-Yo, yo.
-How are you, sir?

-Man, I'm so good.
I'm so happy to be here.

-I'm happy that you're here.

It's a big deal
that you're hear.

-It's a huge deal.
-I'mma tell you why.

I'mma tell you
why it's a big deal.

It's a big deal because you
got me cool points in my house.

I never knew
what that meant.

I never knew the definition
or understanding of it.

But as a father, there's a point
where your kids stop

really caring
about you and your talent

and they start to care
about the talent around you.

And you, Simu, well, you are
a household favorite, man.

My kids are Marvel fanatic.
My my daughter's 16.

My oldest son is 14.

And they eat,
sleep and breathe it.

Of course, my two youngest
don't know yet,

but they fell in love
with you on a big screen, man.

So when I told them I was having
you, my son is actually here.

My son don't come
to anything I do.

-Yeah, we took a picture.

-Yeah, he doesn't come
the nothing I do, ever.

My son comes to set,
he'll chill and disappear.

But yet he's here for you,
man.

-That's amazing.

He's a he's a very mature,
very poised young man.

-He thinks he's too cool.
-And he's taller than you.

-He is, he is.
Every once in a while

I punch him in the neck, though.

-Oh, yeah.
-I punch him the neck

just to remind him that I'm dad.

The beauty
of "Hart to Heart," man,

is not only heartfelt
conversations,

but we have the choice to do it
over a glass of wine.

I love wine.

I say the same thing through
the course of every show.

I feel like great conversations
can happen over great wine.

So you do have the choice.
Would you like a glass of wine?

-You know, I would I would love
to enjoy it with you, Kevin,

but I don't -- I don't drink.

-You don't drink?
-Yeah.

-Sounds like
I'm having two glasses then.

-You should have -- you should
have an extra one for me.

-Pour me one here and pour me
another one beside it

because I'm gonna drink
that on his behalf.

-That's great.
-I'm not gonna drink by myself.

So --
This is my --

-Yeah, yeah.
-How are you, Mr. Simu?

Mr. Hart.

Classic Pinot Noir from
the Willamette Valley, Oregon.

-Willamette.
-Bright, elegant,

being cherry,
a little bit of sous bois.

2020 vintage.
-Sous bois.

-Hell, yeah, sous bois.
-A little bit of sous bois.

-I love that.
-What's wine without sous bois?

-I refuse any wine
without sous bois.

-You don't drink wine
without sous bois.

-Yeah.
-It's as bad is what it is.

What is that? Water?
-Make me want to have some.

-Boo! Boo!
-I know, I know.

-Joking, joking.
Cheers.

-Cheers.
-This is cheers to you.

-Sorry, this is bad luck.
I know.

-No, cheers to you
and your success, man.

Congratulations.
-Thank you.

-I know the world is just
basically flipped upside down

since this movie for you.
We're going to get into that.

Plus --
-I got questions.

-Well, yeah.
-I have questions.

I need advice.
-I have questions.

And I hope -- I hope
that I have answers.

Let's let's talk before.

You know, before we get
to the business,

before we get to the movies
and how, where you from?

-Yeah, that's -- that's a great
question.

I was born in China.
-Okay.

-And then I immigrated
to Canada when I was --

when I was five years old.

My parents actually immigrated
when I was a lot younger.

I grew up basically in the care
of my grandparents

in in a little city

in the northeast of China
called Harbin.

-Okay.
-And one day,

so I'm four and a half years old

and live at my grandparents
every day.

We're sleeping in the same bed
where, you know,

it's like -- it's like
a little apartment,

you know, running water, maybe
like 75 percent of the day.

-Okay.
-No hot water.

You got to boil all your water.

You know, you take a bath.
It's like chemistry, you know?

-Cheers. I've been there.
I've been there.

-There you go.

And then one day this guy shows
up at the door and I'm like,

"Who are you?"
And he's like, "I'm your dad,

and I'm here to take you
to Canada."

And that's how I found out that
I was leaving the country.

-How old were you?
-I was four and a half.

-Okay.
-So basically I had to --

I had to say goodbye
to my grandparents,

who at that point were the only
parental figures that I had.

And then join my dad,
who at that point was a stranger

because I'd never seen him.

I feel like maybe I'd talk to
him on the phone before, but...

But yeah, I went from that

to having to spend
every day with this man.

-And what about now Mom
at the time?

-So Mom was was still in Canada.
-Okay.

-You know, we could only afford
the one plane ticket to go back.

And so it was my dad who came
back to get me.

-I got you.
-And and then I met my mom

at the arrivals terminal
at Pearson Airport in Toronto.

-So, from China to Canada,
a whirlwind of events.

Your relationship
with your grandparents,

I mean,
is it one that still exists?

Is it -- did you keep in touch?
Did it kind of fall off?

-So my grandparents actually
passed earlier this year.

-Oh, wow.
-Sorry, sorry last year.

-Sorry to hear that.
-No, thank you. Thank you.

But there were, I mean,
there are always such a big part

of my life just because
those are such formative years,

you know,
your first three or four years.

I mean, it's really -- it's how
you learn about everything.

And it was like -- so basically
I was one of those kids

that like,
if I didn't get what I wanted,

like we'd go out, you know,
to the street markets and stuff.

And if I didn't get what I
wanted, I would just lie down.

I would like lie down
on the ground

and I would just like [screams],
just scream out

and I throw one
of those tantrums.

And so my grandpa
was like really fed up,

and he sat me down
and he was like,

"Look, I would love
to take you out,

but you have to promise me
and this is what a promise is,

is that you tell me that you're
not going to do something,

and then you have to honor it.

And it was very important to me
in that moment

that I -- that I respect that.

-Okay.
-And so, you know,

I remember the first time,
I like immediately,

you know, it's like
we're going to the market.

I immediately see what I want.

It's like some snack
or something.

And then I'm like, mm-hmm.
And I remember like,

alright, I'm not going to --
I'm not going to say anything.

-I want to keep my promise.
-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-It's one of those life lessons

that you don't realize
are strong.

until you get to a certain age
and you're like, wow, you know?

My big one was commitment.

My big one was, you know,
whatever I commit to,

you have to finish.
-Yeah.

-That was my mom's
biggest thing with me.

It was, you know, I don't care
what you choose to do,

but when you make the choice,
you're giving a commitment.

-Yeah.
-Finish that.

Don't ever --
don't ever not finish

because that's starting a habit
that you won't break.

You become a person
that leaves things

incomplete in life as you go.

-It's really about discipline,
right?

It's about whether --
it's like learning

what a promise is
or the value of commitment.

It's about can you
teach somebody to act

against their --
their instinct

or their want and desire
in that moment

and remember something
that they were bound to

at an earlier point in time

or that they
that they agreed to, right?

It's like this idea of like
self-control or discipline

or just being able to have
the mental fortitude to say,

I'm going to --
I'm going to stick to my guns.

-Are you a person that does well
with commitment?

Like, are you
a strong-minded person?

Do you feel like the things
you put your mind to you finish

or do you feel like
you have problems

with starting and completing?

-I feel like I've lived my life
as two different people,

and in one version of me,

I am this lackadaisical,
slacker kid

who just always did
the bare minimum,

like whatever --
whatever it was to pass

or did not get my parents
mad at me, to get through

to the next year or school
or whatever, get a job.

You know, I went to school
for finance and accounting,

and I really just
wasn't that kid.

I was -- I was just not engaged.

-What does that mean when you
say you went to school

for finance and accounting?

Are you saying that
that was the, you know,

were you forced to take that up?

Was that like a family thing
that was

here's what you're going to do?

Did you make the choices,
not make the choice?

-I feel like I kind of
made the choice, right?

So I was -- I was kind of raised
in an environment...

First of all, you know,
as immigrant parents,

it was the idea
of survival and stability.

It was all tied
to the ability to provide.

And the kind of key to that,
at least for my parents,

was higher education.

So when it kind of came time
to apply for schools,

first of all, my science
marks are absolute shit.

So that was never
going to happen, you know?

So we got that out
of the way real fast.

But then I was like, okay,
what about --

what about this idea
of like business and finance?

Because it's still
kind of somewhat prestigious

and still somewhat
parentally approved, you know?

But, you know, there's a --
there's a side of that

that's like, oh, maybe,
you know, if I'm really

successful at it,
I get the -- I get the nice car,

I get the nice suit.
-Okay.

-And part of that was appealing
to me at least at 18.

So that's what I did, thinking
that that's what I truly wanted.

-Was it a thing where
your parents

put a certain amount of pressure
on you because of their success?

-Constantly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
-Really?

-Absolutely.
I mean, for my parents, right?

Like, they -- they made
the decision

to leave the country
that they grew up in,

that they called home, you know,
the language and the culture

that they're familiar with

and they swapped that out
for an entirely new environment

where they did not understand
the culture,

they did not understand,
you know, the language,

and the only thing that
really was the through line

through all of that
was the education.

-Mm-hmm.
-And so it was like, you know,

my dad pursued his Ph.D.

in electrical
engineering in Canada,

and that's what allowed him
to work as an engineer.

It was -- it's such
a myopic view of success

because it was, A, tried
and true and B,

yeah, all that
they knew in life.

-It's kind of crazy though,
because I relate

and understand
the side of a parent

saying I gave up
what I knew to go try

what I don't know
for a better life for you.

I don't want -- I don't want
your life to be what mine's was.

So my sacrifice
was for your benefit.

-Absolutely.
-And if a kid doesn't truly

engage and respond
to said sacrifice,

then it's almost coming off
as a fuck you to the parents

when ultimately
that's not the case.

It's like what you did
is right.

You gave me the opportunity
to see this other thing,

and look at what I can do now.
I can do something and be happy.

-And it's so ironic because
they can't even --

-They can't understand it.
-They're like, well,

I did this for you, so you can
have every opportunity

and I don't want you to be me,

but then they do want you
to be them in a way.

They want you succeed
on their terms.

-It's a little backwards.

-No, but you're
absolutely right.

I can't, you know,
you can't knock that.

And, you know, I will say
growing up was -- was hard.

Being in that household
and dealing with that pressure

every single day was hard.

But -- but now it's -- it's been
really interesting

seeing my parents evolve
and adapt to the world

that they are now being exposed
to in entertainment

and understanding
that like an Asian person,

a Chinese Canadian person
can affect Western culture

and can be a part of it
and can be accepted by it.

-Have you sat down
with the parents

and had a conversation of,

I just want to let you guys know
that I -- I understand

what you did and I understand
what you went through

and I understand what that --
what that did for me.

And I wouldn't be here today...
-Absolutely.

You did have that?
-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-What was their --
what was their response to that?

-Well, it was it was mixed,
right?

Because I had a lot, I mean,
I had to do a lot

in this conversation.
I had to let them know

how grateful I was
for the sacrifices.

I had to know that I understood
the choice that they made

and all that they overcame
to come here.

But, you know,
I also needed them to know

that they were quite shitty
at times, right?

That there are moments where,
you know,

it's like
when they're telling me

that I was the worst thing that
ever happened to them that like,

you know...
-It stuck.

-...that stuck,
and it's very hard for me

to undo that mental baggage

and to kind of just forget

that those scars exist,
you know?

-How long have you felt
like you wore those scars?

Like how long -- how long
were were they suppressed?

Like, were there things
that you've ever voiced

or blurted out before,
you felt like you kept on

the wraps until the point
where you...?

-Well, yeah.
I think in the beginning

it was all very like,
you know, shouting matches

and, you know,
things got physical

and all of those things
that happened in a --

in a household where like
you got two generations

that fundamentally just
don't understand each other

and don't understand
each other's way of life.

It's just clashing
and butting heads all the time.

So it was like, fuck you,
fuck you, you know?

Get out of the house, get out.
You're out, you know?

-Tempers are flaring.
-Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

And and I think
I wore that with me,

you know,
throughout my college years.

I feel like college was good
because I moved away.

It created some space
and separation,

And I got the job
out of graduation.

-Where you go to college?
-I went to college

at the University
of Western Ontario.

-Okay, Alright.
-In London, Ontario.

-That's what I was gonna say.
That's the good London.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.
-[ Laughs ]

-Alright. So in London, Ontario,
you're going to college now.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I'm still, by the way,

I'm still
that version of myself.

-I was going to say
you're still following --

-Is slacker that's still like,
yeah.

I mean, I was like,
my average was coming up short

and I was like, begging.

I was like begging
the departments

to let me stay in school.

And my parents didn't know
any of this, of course.

They just knew
that at the end of it,

I somehow managed to swindle

my way into a job offer.

-Wow.
-And so I worked --

I got a job offer at Deloitte,

was one of the big four
accounting firms.

-Accounting. I was gonna say
it's accounting.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.
-Okay.

So I'm guessing getting that
the accounting job didn't last.

-No, no. I was -- I was fired
about eight

and a half or nine months in.

-Wow.
-Yeah.

-Parents know?
-Not -- not initially.

Not initially.
-How long you hide it?

-I managed to hide it
until actually

I had a commercial
that was about

to come out nationally.

And if I didn't tell them,
then they were going to turn

on the TV one day
and see their son on the phone

selling some small
business cellphone plans.

-So -- so let's --
let's transition then.

-Yeah.
-Okay, I mean, the conversation

has gone, as a matter of fact.

Before we do that,
let's take a break.

That's right.
Let's take a break.

We've got more
heavy conversation,

more understanding, more truth

when we come back with
more "Hart to Heart" after this.

**

**

-We are back, guys.
We're back.

And I'm still here
with Simu Liu,

and I want to
go deeper right now, right?

Somehow you make
the decision to transition

into the world of entertainment,
the world of acting.

Right? Of course,
this is no easy transition.

I mean, goodness gracious,

you were in school
in London, Ontario.

-Yeah, what the fuck
was I thinking?

Why would I?

-I don't know how or what,

but how where does it --
where does it happen?

How do the will start spinning?

-Yeah.
-And and how do you say fuck it,

this is the road
that I'm now going down?

-Yeah, I think it's a very --
I mean, I have no idea

why the idea of --
of being an entertainer

has always
kind of stuck in my brain,

especially, like, I wasn't
the theater geek as a kid.

You know, I wasn't, like,
constantly

looking for ways
to be in front of people.

I wasn't constantly trying to
tell jokes, make people laugh.

Like, I definitely wanted to be
cool, I wanted to be accepted.

And I feel like probably
a part of me, you know,

saw the respect

and the adulation
that celebrities and,

you know, those types of people
got and was like, "I want that."

-If you don't mind me asking,
at the time,

who are you watching?
Like, who -- who was it

that -- that caught your eye
and it made you feel like,

oh, my God, I want that.
I want to feel that.

-Oh, man.

When I was --
when I was in sixth grade,

I had a crush on a girl.

Her name was Jackie,
and all the guys in the class

Like Jackie,
but Jackie like Thomas.

Thomas was this, you know,
he was like --

he was his blond,

he kind of was like
a Aaron Carter lookalike...

-Son of a bitch.
-...with frosted tips.

-Mother...
-Yeah, I know.

I didn't stand a chance, though.

I was like this, you know,
dorky Asian kid.

My parents never, like,
gave me a talk,

never taught me
how to talk to women.

We didn't have
those conversations.

I mean, those --
I mean, literally,

we didn't have
any conversation apart

from why aren't you
studying harder?

What are you doing
with your life?

You know, stuff like that.

-Girls wasn't even the topic.
-Exactly, exactly.

So, I mean, I just came in and I
had no idea how to do anything.

And then on top of that,
as an Asian -- as an Asian boy,

I feel like, you know,
everything you're consuming

in the media is telling you
that you're one thing, right?

Like you're a dorky kid,

and you're you're just
kind of like,

don't see a way for you...

-Not seeing the opposite
or hearing the opposite.

-Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly.

But Jackie was a big NSYNC fan.

So Jackie was all about
JC Chasez,

Justin Timberlake.
-Yes, Justin Timberlake.

-So I was like, you know,
I was watching, you know,

would watch their music videos

and would buy all their
CDs, too.

And be like, I just.
[indistinct]

-Used to dance.
-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-You could dance?
-Yeah, well, I had to.

I taught, you know,
I taught myself that.

-That was your in.
-That was what I was doing.

-You were that went up
to girls like,

"Hey, what's up?"
-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-Yeah, yeah.
[ Laughs ]

-What I didn't realize that
I probably should have realized,

and you probably know, is that
having a solid sense of humor

and self-awareness and like...
-Is the best.

-...that -- that beats anything.

But I thought at the time
I was like, great dancing,

good luck, six pack or whatever.
I mean...

-Were you the guy that
come comes up and flip?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You go up and you're like --

-"Hey, how you doing, Jackie?"
And just somersault.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.
-"Hey, I'm going to say

good morning,"
and then just walk off.

-Yeah, exactly.
-Those guys.

-Yeah. Nobody likes those guys.
-No, nobody likes those guys.

Humor beats those guys
every day.

-Right. right.
-Every day of the week.

Every day.
-I was that guy until I was,

like, 25 years old, you know?

So I'm a late bloomer.

-You're late.
You're a late bloomer.

But I love the honesty about it.
I love the honesty about it.

So you're now -- you now make

the decision,
we're going to pursue,

we're going to follow acting.

But where do you go?
What's the road?

I still understand how you
figured out a road to take.

Like it's not as if you're
in the environment

where there's
this revolving door

of people that's getting
opportunity.

-It's not "La-La Land."
-No.

So, where do you find
the first opportunity,

or what -- what was the
opportunity that made you go,

oh, okay, this -- this can work?
-Yeah, yeah.

-There's a possibility
of me doing this?

-I went on Craigslist.
-Okay.

-I went on Craigslist and I
literally searched acting gigs,

and I found myself on the set...

Because once in a while,
you know, when you're doing

like a big movie, they're --
they cast for extras, right?

And so this movie,
"Pacific Rim,"

happened to have a scene
that was set in Hong Kong.

-Okay.
-And so they needed, like,

hundreds of like Asian extras
to play Chinese people.

And so I responded
to the -- to the ad,

and either I was, I don't know,

either I was going to be
in a softcore porno

and they just went -- or it
was going to be the real deal.

But I showed up, it was
Pinewood Studios in Toronto

and it was like the real thing.

And all of a sudden I'm thrust
on set, and it's like

Guillermo del Toro,
you know, it's like

Idris Elba is on set,
Charlie Day is on set.

-So you get there,
you're on set, you're an extra.

-And it's the most incredible
environment

that you've ever seen.

You know, it's like the cameras,
the people moving around.

It's like when you're on those
like $100, $150 million movies,

they're like
hundreds of people on set.

Everyone has their own role,
has their own purpose,

and everyone is just
coexisting and gelling.

And every -- everything
is active and moving.

And we're in this like,
you know,

people have built this entire
Hong Kong neighborhood

that has been just leveled
by a nuclear bomb.

And it just looks like
the coolest fucking thing

I've ever seen in my life,
and I'm like, I don't know.

I don't know what I'm doing
with the rest of my life,

but I got to --
I got to get back here.

-I got to do this.
-Yeah.

-I got to do this.
-Yeah, yeah.

-The inlet.
-The inlet, exactly.

-You saw --
You saw and,

oh, my God, this is it.

This is what I'm supposed to do.

-Do you remember
what that moment was for you?

-Absolutely. I went on stage
at an amateur night

and the bright light
was in my face,

and I heard people laugh.

Wasn't the biggest laugh.
I heard people laugh.

I heard -- I said a joke,
and I heard people go [laughs].

And I said I don't ever --

I don't never not
want to hear that again.

-Yeah.
-That, oh, my God.

I sat up straight, my -- my
attention was different.

I got a little more animated.

-That first little crumb
of validation.

It was like, you can --
you can do this.

-It was everything.
-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-Guys, we're gonna
take another break.

We got more "Hart to Heart" when
we get back after this.

**

**

-We're back, guys.

We're back, And I'm still here
with Simu Liu.

I'm hearing that there was
a moment where, you know,

the job world view
got a little tough.

And you were -- you were like
a Spider-Man

at kids parties
for a little while, right?

-Yeah.
-You were doing Spider-Man work,

showing up at the parties,
being Spider-Man.

-For sure, yeah.
-75 bucks an hour.

-Kids fucking with you,
doing whatever, right?

-100 percent, yeah, yeah.
-At the time,

A Marvel fan or not?
-Yeah, yeah.

-Yeah?
-Big, big, superhero.

I mean -- I mean, you know,
my -- my vision board

in the very beginning of,
like, imaginary vision board,

but my -- my goal
at the very beginning was like,

oh, I want to -- I would love
to be a superhero.

-Okay.
-That was the -- I didn't think

it would I mean, not like that,
but that was a way to

because I had gotten laid off
from the job.

I'd also made the decision to,

like, give this
acting thing a go.

But yeah,
I just didn't have the capital.

-So, what's the word
on the tweet?

Like, there's a -- there's
a tweet that exists...

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.
-...of you kind of --

of foreshadowing the world
of you being in Marvel.

-Right.
-And is this real or is it...?

-No, it's real, it's real.
I remember, you know,

at one point I think
it was like 2014 or 2015.

I tweeted --
I tweeted like, "Hey, @Marvel,

great job with Captain American
and Thor.

Two -- two white guys.
How about an Asian superhero?

How about an Asian American
superhero is actually

what I -- what I said.
-Fucking around.

-Yeah, fucking around,
nobody ever --

and nobody ever saw it.

I forgot about it.

And then, you know, yeah,
fast-forward --

fast-forward five years
and I'm, you know, I get cast,

I get marched out
in front of Comic-Con

and then somebody is like,

"Do you remember
that you tweeted this?"

-That's not a little
surreal to you.

-It's crazy, yeah.

The power of,
like, manifestation

and the power of, yeah.
-Of just saying something...

-Yeah.
-And then -- and then

becoming the guy.
-Yeah.

-Becoming the guy.

What's the feeling
of conversation with being a guy

who's the first to become,
the first ever?

Oh, my God, The first
ever to cover a magazine?

-Oh, my God.
-The first to step

on the stage
and take the trophy?

Like, what is that now?

-It is honestly so constant,
that when I was

on "SNL" in November,
we made a skit

making fun of it
where we just started

being like first person
to ride

a fucking dragon, first person
to play, you know?

You know, like we just started
throwing it around

because it is,
it happens all the time.

It's not the first time I found
myself in that conversation,

because before I did
the Marvel thing,

I was on -- I was on a sitcom
called "Kim's Convenience."

We did -- we did comedy
for like five years,

and at the time, too,

that was like the groundbreaking
thing with, you know,

an all-Asian cast and barriers
were being broken and all that.

And I think it's easy
to get cynical

when -- when this stuff happens

and you're answering
these questions

for like the 500th time
and all that.

But -- but I just I think
back to, you know,

when I was first starting out,

the world that I believed
was available to me, right?

I was an extra, and I would look
at the the only other Asian guys

that I saw were the stunt guys.

And because those are
the only ones

that could really have a future,

because if you were
an Asian actor

and you
didn't know martial arts,

well, then hell,
you're playing --

you're playing geek
number three.

You're playing at best,
at best, a best friend

of some main character.

You know, it was unfathomable
that we could actually

have a story that was --
that was about being Asian

in a place
like America or Canada.

It just wasn't even on the -- on
the, you know, on the horizon.

So when I first got in, I was,
you know, I -- I didn't, I mean,

I didn't actually think
I was going to be a superhero.

I just thought, oh,
maybe I'll just fuck around

and maybe I'll be a stuntman
or something,

but I would just be happy
as long as there's

a camera around
and we're on the set.

-So now, as we're now seeing
major progress,

we're seeing major progress.

And we're not only talking about
being the stars

of these crazy box office
vehicles, but we're talking --

-You're talking about being
the master of that narrative

of not just being a face
in front of a screen that...

You know, I'm a huge Jackie Chan
fan, massive Jet Li fan.

Like, those are the guys
that I watch growing up, right.

But when you look at those
movies, the "Rush Hours"

and the "Shanghai Noons"
and the, you know,

the "Cradle 2 the Grave,"
which I loved by the way.

It was Jet Li and DMX.

-And until this day,
I still don't understand it.

-It's Black and Asian
solidarity.

-It's the best casting,

it's the worst best chemistry
I've ever seen,

and that's the best way
to describe it.

-But I mean, those were movies
that were dreamt up

by non-Asian people,
and they -- and they put Jackie

and they put Jet in that movie
to be the foreigner,

to be the other guy
that didn't speak English,

that would come in
and maybe provide comic relief

or just be the guy
that didn't understand

or didn't speak the language.

And there's something different.

There is something shifting now.

-Absolutely.
-First of all, you know, we have

Asian-American filmmakers
that can speak to,

specifically, the type
of upbringing that I had

or the life --
the life that I led.

You know, all of the things
that come with that,

whether it's
the parental pressure

or, you know, the idea
of like being Asian in a society

that doesn't believe
that Asian people

are a part of it,
you know, stuff like that.

-Well, I think is more --
I think more now

what we're realizing today
is that there's a want

for the real side
of information, right?

There's a want for
the real side of heritage,

for the real understanding
of family and value within it.

There's a real one, right?

Because we lived off
of the stereotype.

We lived off
of the hypothetical.

We lived off of what we thought
we knew for so long,

and we've made promises, movies,
TV based off of that.

But I feel like now
there's a want and need,

a desire for the truth.

-And I love you talking about
being an active participant

in that career.
I mean -- I mean,

obviously I knew that
because you run

a very successful
production company.

You like, you know --
You know, it's funny

because it starts from a dream
that's so simple,

which is I want to make people
laugh, but then it builds.

And I mean, I see the process
through which you've evolved

from standup comedian to like,
you know, producer to mogul,

dare I say?
-Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

-I mean, I would want to know

what -- what is the thinking
behind that?

Who trained you in business,
in show business?

Where, you know, where did
that mentorship come from?

I mean, as grateful as I am
to be the Marvel guy,

I also want to be the guy
that's in charge of

I want to tell this story,
I want to play this character.

-I have a service to do,
which is answer that question,

but let's do when we come back.

Guys, we're gonna take
another break.

We got more "Hart to Heart"
when get back after this.

**

**

-We are back, guys,

and what an amazing
conversation to come back to.

I'm still here with Simu Liu.

And, you know, your question
was just about just me

and the the -- the now,
right.

The building of this,
let's just call it

knock on wood, "empire."

The creating behind
the ecosystem

and just seeing how you
can connect certain dots.

For me, I think
the real American dream

is the dream that doesn't have
an ending to it, right?

Because after you succeed,

well, some people stop
and go, wow, I did it.

And then some people go, okay,
well, I can do some more.

-Yeah.
-I've been to do some more guy

for a long time,

and I think for me
as I get older,

it's just making sure
that I don't lose a drive,

that I don't --
that I don't lose energy

to get up in the morning and do.

-And -- and I love
that you continually,

I mean, you're continually
challenging yourself.

Like, your last few films that
you did really skewed serious,

really dramatic work
that you were incredible in.

-Trying to switch it up...
-Yeah.

-...find that excitement.

For you, I mean, look,
let's -- let's talk.

You want to talk about now work.

We're talking about the one.

You -- you shot out,
you did earlier work.

The Marvel side came in,
oh, my God,

that's bigger work
with talks of a sequel now.

You're in that machine.

Is that machine
what you thought it would be?

Or that machine come with some,
oh, God, holy shit?

Like, where -- what's
the mindset of you

to Marvel, in a respectful way?

I don't want you to get
yourself in trouble here,

but what's the mind of you
now in Marvel?

Oh, my God, success.
How long am I in this?

What do I want
outside of this is as well?

-Absolutely.
-Are you thinking that way now?

-Yes, absolutely.
I think from day one, you know,

first of all, I mean -- I mean,
one call from Kevin Feige.

He changed my life forever.
-Okay.

-I mean, you could --
there are a million

different first chances
that you could get,

whether it's
like a network pilot or like,

you know,
some indie movie that you do.

It didn't have to be Marvel.

-No, this is "the".
-But this is the gold standard.

-You got "the" first chance.
-It's like, holy shit, you know,

imagine that being
your first -- first movie?

So, I mean, I was -- I wanted to
be very proactive off the bat.

You know,
I went to business school

and even though I didn't pay
attention for like

98 percent of it,
I still retained

enough of the knowledge
to be like,

great, to be stagnant
is death, right?

You have to kind of find a way
to take ownership,

and I think Marvel was fantastic
in getting me that platform.

And I truthfully,
truthfully, I have nothing

but fantastic things to say
because they've been wonderful.

What I will say is nobody
prepares you to be famous.

-No.
-There's no class.

And try, as someone might,
to design that class,

if they haven't been
through it themselves,

they have no fucking idea
what all of that life entails,

what it means
to lose the ability

to have just a person-to-person
conversation out on the street.

Because now when you step out...

-It's different.
-...It's different.

People see you, but they don't
really see you.

They see...
-You're -- you're the thing.

You become -- you become a
version of that.

And you know what?
I say this all the time.

I mean, rightfully so, right?

There's a gift and a curse
attached to anything great.

There's so much
that goes with that,

so when you say
you're not prepared

or nobody can prepare you,
you're absolutely right.

And the crazy part is it's just
the beginning of it for you.

-[ Laughs ]
-This is the crazy part.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah,
-Like, if you -- if we were

talking
to the untalented guy,

well, then it's different.

If we're talking to the guy here
that's not charismatic,

we're talking to a guy here
that can't hold the conversation

or the guy
that I'm pulling teeth from

during the course
of an interview,

well, this is different.

It's was going to be a short
role for you, but good luck.

But we're not talking
to that guy.

Like, we're talking to a guy
that wants more.

And the more you want,
well, the more success

and the more fame
that comes with that.

So, you know, what is your
attitude towards more fame,

towards more success?

-I mean -- I mean, I feel like
I still retain

so much of what my parents
put in me,

the need to create stability,
right?

And to me, whether it's fame...

I mean, I don't want to
say fame necessarily,

but I mean, to a degree that's
that's necessary in this system.

It's necessary to be like
who, you know,

who are the people that could
greenlight a project, you know,

and am I going to be
waiting forever

or, you know -- you know,

waiting forever for the
right opportunity to come?

Or am I going to be the type
of person who can take ownership

and to participate
in the projects

that he wants on his terms?

So that's always been
what I want.

And it feels like,
at least right now,

that -- that --
that this idea of fame

is tied in
with this idea of success.

-You have to do that
at the same time.

See, people fuck up because
people wait, right?

People wait until they're done
the hot run to go,

okay, now I want to try this.

But if you figure out a way
to do it at the same time,

alright, I'm rolling.
We're developing part two.

While we're developing part two,

I'm going to start to sit
with some people that I met.

I want to develop a thing
that I want to do.

Hopefully by the time
we're done shooting part two,

while we're in pre-production
for part two,

I want to take the meetings
with the talent,

with the personnel producers
that I had the access to

because of what I'm doing
for part two,

they're going
to sit down with me.

Because of that access.
they're going to not

only take the meetings,
they're going

to give me
the time and attention.

I can secure these deals,
secured these things

so that as soon
as this is wrapped up,

I'm right into the next thing.
-Hell yeah.

-I've always been
before project,

in the middle of a project,

at the end of the project,
start a new project.

-Hell yeah.
-I never wait.

So I've -- I've always
kept that train moving.

Now granted, the gift
and the curse comes with,

well, you're working
all the fucking time

and you look up
and you ain't taking time

to really access what's going on
or love the ones properly --

-To be a human being.
-Yeah.

That's a -- that's a battle
that I still have with myself.

-I understand.
-That I'm still going through,

but for that thing
that you're talking about,

you have to access
those relationships

while they're accessible.

Don't wait
till they're not there,

because then those
relationships go away.

-Yeah.
-That door is shut.

When that door shut,
you're gonna look back like

what the fuck?

I was just the guy.

-I've seen it happen.
-I was just the guy.

I was just on the poster.

They said,
we're not doing part three,

so what are we doing?

-But the world is fast.
The world is fast.

You can have a moment,
but it's a --

without anything
to follow it up,

it's a flash in the pan.
-Take advantage.

-And then they're on
to "Squid Game."

They're on to whatever
the next thing is, you know?

-Guys, we're gonna take
another break.

We got more "Hart to Heart"
when we get back after this.

**

**

-We're back, guys.
We're back.

And I'm still here
with Simu Liu.

And there's so much excitement

that I see in you,
just as we're talking.

Like, you got this --
there's a --

there's a dope ass energy
that you have.

That energy just should
just go into

the other things
that you want to do, too.

-Yeah.
-And that's the beauty of it.

Like, when you when
you get that energy

in that other thing
you want to do,

it's very hard for mother
fuckers to tell no

when it's good shit.

Nine times out of 10,
if you got

a good piece of energy
into the thing

that you want to do
that's different,

that showcases your talent
in a different way...

-Mm-hmm.
-...it's kind of hard to say no.

True story was me saying,
I kind of want to kill somebody.

That's how simple it was.

It wasn't well thought out.
-[ Laughs ]

I just want to kill somebody.
How do I do it?

How can I do it
and make people believe it?

-Hell yeah.
-I love "Narcos."

I want to meet with the guy
that developed "Narcos."

That's it.
Had access to the guy.

-Yeah.
So for you, I would say,

where does that side of ideas
start,

and how do you --
how do you truly amplify.

your world of creativity
while you're in the best,

while you're in the best engine

to back and support you
as a talent?

Because you're going to be
in that for another

two and a half, three years.
-Oh, man.

-You got to shoot the movie,

then the movie's
got to come out.

I mean, that movie's
not a short movie to shoot.

How long it take you guys
to shoot the first one?

-Man, we were in Sydney
for a year...

because we shut down
in the middle, right?

We shut down for four months.

It was originally just like
a seven,

seven and a half month shoot,

but then one day
you show up to work

and the AD comes through
and it's like

we're pulling the plug.

See you, we don't know.

-Jesus.
-Yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, yeah, they take a
while. They take a while.

-That's -- that's insane.
That's insane.

I don't know what I would say.

Somebody asked me to go shoot
a movie

for seven and half months,
first I'm probably going

to say, go fuck yourself.

There's no way I can do it.
-[ Laughs ]

-For a Marvel movie?
For you kids?

-You know what, man?

I -- I've had this conversation.

My kids are a fan of Marvel.

Uh-huh.
-I just know that I couldn't --

I know that I can't give
that type of time.

I got -- there's so much
that I got going on.

-I got you.
-A movie pass

the three-month time
for me is a lot.

-For sure.
-Is a lot, but,

you know, who knows?

I mean, those numbers
get to making sense in the front

and the back end,
you know, I don't know.

And I don't know -- I don't know
if there's a costume to fit me.

-Pay me.

-Yeah, I don't know if a
costume...

-Pay me, pay me.
Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

-How are you with money?

-How am I with money?
-Yes, how are you with money?

-Well, I was -- I was
a failed account.

So, I mean, you could take that

to mean that I'm great with
money or you could take that

to mean I'm absolutely
fucking shit with money.

-It could go either way.

-Yeah, it could really
go either way.

-People like oh,
like, when I tell them I used

to be an account, they're like,
"Oh, you want to do my taxes?"

I'm like, "I was fired.
I was fired eight months."

Like, they didn't even
let me take my exam.

-Let me finish the sentence.

-Yeah, let me finish
the sentence first

before you jump on it.

I feel like I'm alright.

My parents were -- my parents
were petrified of debt.

-Okay.
-Petrified, like paid off

their house in three years,

like literally, like, bought
their first house

and then just didn't furnish it.

-Yeah.
-Because they were so --

They were like maxed out
every single mortgage payment

until we pay this thing off
because the idea of owing money

was just so foreign
and uncomfortable to them.

So, you know...

-And all that falls back into
what we were just talking about,

about finding ways
to become the business

in the business.
-Yeah, yeah.

-Finding ways
to get other

financial revenue streams
in the business.

-Yeah. No, those four months
that -- that we took off

ended up being great for me
because I wrote a book

in that time, we're publishing
this year finally.

-Congratulations.
-Thank you.

-What's the book called?
-It's called "We Were Dreamers."

-Okay.
-You know, "We Were Dreamers:

An Immigrant Superhero
Origin Story."

So it tells the story of kind
of what I -- what I

was telling you
about my parents.

It goes maybe back into
into their lives, you know,

growing up in China
and making the decision

to pursue a higher --
higher education

in a totally different
environment,

you know, making the decision
to put it all on the line

and risk everything in search
of some sort of dream that,

you know, frankly, they didn't
even fully understand,

because what did they know

about America or,
you know, Canada?

At the time,
it was just an idea.

There's this idea that, like,
something is out there

and I just want to take the ship
and go and see where I end up.

-There's a gift in every curse.
-Yeah, absolutely.

-There's a gift in every curse.

The curse of what came off
as bad parenting

from time to time,

the curse of struggle to you
as a young boy.

Of course,
living the life that you lived,

when you look back at it
now, those things are necessary.

Those moments
were absolutely necessary.

And just like this break,
this break is necessary.

Guys, we'll be right back with
more "Hart to Heart" after this.

**

**

-We are back.

Still getting into it, man.
Such a great conversation.

I got to ask you this,
I have yet to ask you.

I heard that with the --
with the movie,

you did not know
any type of martial arts.

I heard that martial arts
was not in your background.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.
-That you had to learn it

for the movie,
and that you did like 70,

80 percent of the stunts
for the movie.

-I'll be honest with you.
-Okay.

-Can I be honest with you?
-You --

-It's "Hart to Heart."
You better be honest with me.

It is "Hart to Heart."
That's true, that's true.

I down-- I purposefully downplay

how much martial arts I knew.
-Okay.

Because I am afraid
of that narrative

of like the martial arts guy,

they cast the martial arts guy
to do the martial arts.

He's Asian, of course.
You know?

I -- I want to challenge
people to see me as an artist

at the same way
that Ryan Gosling

picked up jazz piano
for "La-La Land."

That is the way that I picked up
martial arts for this movie.

It is not because martial arts
is all I do.

That's not because martial arts
is all Asian people do,

and that's all they're good for.

And when you, you know,
when you see

an Asian person on screen,
they better

be doing martial arts,
it's not that.

But this was a character.

And so I did the training
that was necessary.

I stepped up
and I mean, sure, yeah.

Before I mean, of course,
hell yeah I did martial arts.

You know,
I took the stunt training.

I was in class, I was doing
gymnastics and parkour

and trying to be,
you know,

especially when you're when
you're struggling in Toronto,

Ontario, Canada, and trying
to make a living in showbiz,

you're like booking one
or two television spots a year.

-If that.
-If that.

You got maybe
one national commercial.

And by the way, the Canadian
commercials don't pay

the way that the American
ones do, right?

Canadian national commercial

would give you like four
or five grand

at the end of the day.
That's not a good take home.

-I love what you said,
though, man.

I love what you said,
which is that, you know,

you're -- there's --
a there's a want and goal.

And when you talk about
breaking down stereotypes,

you have to actually be
a -- a -- an action item.

-Mm-hmm.
-I love that message,

and that's the beauty
of this show.

The beauty of this show
is that you can

give that,
you can speak like that

and people can see you
in an honest --

a honest setting,
being your true self.

-I feel my heart,
and I feel your heart.

-"Hart to Heart"
-I feel us doing this.

-That's what it is.
-That's it.

That's the beauty of the set.

-[ Laughs ]
-One more.

I've got to ask you about "SNL."

You did "SNL."
-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-Talk about hosting "SNL."
-Holy shit, man.

That was, I mean, that was --
that was like the pinnacle.

It was like, for me, it's --
it's -- it's "SNL."

It's like the Oscars,
it's "SNL,"

Marvel superhero,
what else?

Celebrity All-Star Game.
-Celebrity All-Star Game.

-Celebrity All-Star Game.
-Celebrity All-Star Game, NBA.

Yeah, Yeah, that's got to happen
in like the next year or so.

-It's a big deal.
I guarantee it happens this year.

But "SNL?"
-Oh, my God. Crazy, crazy.

To be -- to be on that stage,
first of all,

I got in a week
early because I was like,

if I do not see the stage
before I go,

I'm going to psych myself out.
I got to watch the show.

So I watched --
I watched Jonathan Majors

and Taylor Swift,
which was incredible,

just absolutely insane.

-You just sat in the crowd
and...?

-Yeah, yeah.
It just was anonymous

and just watched it all happen.

-How did you feel about
the process?

Going in the office,
everybody pitching to you,

everybody coming up with ideas?

-You know, it felt like --
it felt, to be honest,

it felt like they were like
kind of taking me by the hand

and being like,
because, you know,

for, like,
somebody who they don't know,

I feel like they just
they don't know

how much they can trust you,
right?

So they like, do enough
to be like,

oh, we're including you
in the process,

but really like you'll pitch
an idea and be like,

Oh, that was great.
So anyway, what I was saying,

like, we're going
to do this other thing.

Yeah.
-Cool, cool, cool, cool.

-Thanks, that's really cool.
But what I want to show you.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What I -- what I appreciated,
though, was -- was how --

how much they actually open
the door and like, you know,

by Friday I was working, like,
I did a 16 hour day, right,

doing the pre-tapes and then...

You know, it's like you go
from one pre-tape

to doing the full kind of
on stage tech rehearsal

and then you go
and you do another pre-tape

and you wrap it to 2:00 A.M.
and you're just

so shit tired
at the end of it.

You're not concerned anymore
about, you know,

there's no room
for you to get in your head.

And I really appreciated that.

-I love -- I love the process.
-Yeah.

-You know, the world may or may
not know the actual process

or work
that a lot of those are,

you know, guys and women
are doing behind the scenes

to make that thing go,
especially the creative,

the writers
and the pitching, the cast.

Like there's a lot of work.
They work long hours, man,

during the season of that show,
and the talent that comes in,

you know, they they try to best
to put on for that talent.

As a person has been on there
a lot, yeah, I take my hat off

to them every single time.
It's dope, though.

It's dope that I think
that you got

the opportunity
to step on that stage.

I love that it all lined up.
It just seemed to line up

perfectly for you
throughout the duration.

And they're still going, man.
It's a big deal.

-Thank you, thank you.
It's a lot of --

it's a lot of runway
for one movie.

It's not lost on me. I'm, like,
thinking all the time.

I'm like, oh, shit.

Like, are people like, do people
think that I deserve this?

Because I don't know. I don't
even know that I deserve this.

You know what I mean?
It's crazy.

-You do.
-Before I know it, I'm on --

Yeah, I'm like on stage,
the music is playing,

they're like forcing you out
on stage,

and then it's like you say
your monologue,

you get -- you get led by
the hand backstage, it's nuts.

-Well, don't think for a second
that you do not deserve it.

You are an example of what
the American dream is, man.

You know, look at where
you come from.

You're talking about going from
China to then going to Canada,

and then at Canada, somehow
finding your way into college

and pursuing
what isn't your dream

but what you think
your parents want you to do

and not being successful in it.

You get a job, you get fired.

After getting fired,
you take some shots in the dark.

There's some things
you're doing to make money,

but the shots in the dark show
you a glimpse of light.

And that light becomes
the biggest, brightest light

that turns into a star.

And I'm telling you now, man,
there's people

all over the globe,

all over the globe
that look to people like you,

that look at people like me

that are not supposed to be
in the positions

that they are because of the way
that it's written.

There's a -- there's
a certain trajectory

that that's supposed
to be followed

to get to said
levels of success.

And when you're a groundbreaker
and you do it in

an untraditional manner, man,
you're the example of what can.

So don't think that
you're not a driving force

for that young generation
of young Asian kids

that are looking and going,
oh, my God, I want or I need,

and I can act or I can sing.

And it's not just martial arts,
because you are.

So the things that you said here
I think are powerful,

I think are needed.

I want to thank you again, man,
for coming on.

What an amazing episode,
informative.

I think people are going to walk
away with a different

understanding of who you are,
what you want

and why you deserve it.

Thank you so much once again,
man.

-Oh, man.

What a pleasure.
-Thank you.

-* Go *

-Kevin Hart here
with another anecdote.

Health is wealth, people.

What I'm saying is put
the fucking bacon down.

Yeah, it's good.
I felt that was good.

It's money in the bank.

No, I like that.
Yeah.

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