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1
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Put your hands together for the best band
in the fucking world, the jam!
2
00:00:21,088 --> 00:00:25,526
When I first saw the jam, it was almost
like a hit my soul kind of thing,
3
00:00:25,626 --> 00:00:27,562
almost like a spiritual thing.
4
00:00:36,737 --> 00:00:39,777
If it hadn't been for the jam, I'd have
probably still been a window cleaner,
5
00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:41,876
or probably serving
time, a ne'er-do-gooder.
6
00:00:41,976 --> 00:00:45,413
So, they kind of elevated
and changed my life for the better.
7
00:00:54,789 --> 00:00:58,492
I remember often playing those songs
when I had to climb into a different mood.
8
00:00:58,593 --> 00:01:02,063
Songs like that were a beautiful solace.
Better than the meds.
9
00:01:07,902 --> 00:01:12,506
The jam definitely inspired me
to look beyond the burbs.
10
00:01:21,549 --> 00:01:23,384
I know every lick of those records.
11
00:01:23,484 --> 00:01:25,596
I know every lyric of those records.
I know every beat.
12
00:01:25,620 --> 00:01:27,922
It's definitely a huge part of who I am.
13
00:01:50,144 --> 00:01:54,849
Paul weller.
Born woking, surrey, england, 1958.
14
00:02:15,169 --> 00:02:18,139
Coming from woking,
which is a little suburban town,
15
00:02:18,239 --> 00:02:20,941
I think it just gave us
a different perspective.
16
00:02:21,042 --> 00:02:23,277
We were never sort of looked to
as being sort of trendy,
17
00:02:23,377 --> 00:02:25,946
and I guess we were kind of outsiders
from that point of view,
18
00:02:26,047 --> 00:02:30,985
because we were from this little hip town
from outside London.
19
00:02:38,693 --> 00:02:41,862
This is what used to be
woking working men's club.
20
00:02:41,962 --> 00:02:43,964
Obviously derelict now.
21
00:02:44,065 --> 00:02:49,537
This is where I did my first gig when I
was 14. Me and Steve brookes, my mate.
22
00:02:49,637 --> 00:02:51,381
It was me and him
that started the band off.
23
00:02:51,405 --> 00:02:53,708
We got a little gig on a Wednesday evening,
24
00:02:53,808 --> 00:02:57,244
which my dad managed to blag off
the fellow who run the club.
25
00:02:57,345 --> 00:03:01,682
So, there was about maybe
six people in there. Eight with us.
26
00:03:01,782 --> 00:03:06,587
Steve brookes. Born London, england, 1958.
27
00:03:42,723 --> 00:03:46,026
- We were better than that, weren't we?
- I don't know if we were.
28
00:03:49,230 --> 00:03:54,368
Well, we first hooked up in school,
at sheennater.
29
00:03:54,468 --> 00:03:56,637
And I'd just moved into the area
down from London.
30
00:03:56,737 --> 00:03:58,939
He was definitely cooler
than most of the other kids.
31
00:03:59,039 --> 00:04:01,308
Thought you were going to say,
"he was a twat."
32
00:04:01,409 --> 00:04:05,312
He was a bit of a twat as well,
but I found that out subsequently.
33
00:04:05,746 --> 00:04:07,114
But, no, he was definitely cooler.
34
00:04:07,348 --> 00:04:11,352
And I think it's that sort of,
you know, when you're that age
35
00:04:11,452 --> 00:04:13,654
there's a sexuality thing
that's waking up in you,
36
00:04:13,754 --> 00:04:14,831
and you're sort of like, you don't know,
37
00:04:14,855 --> 00:04:17,291
is this the boy you wanna be
or the boy you wanna have?
38
00:04:17,391 --> 00:04:20,070
What is it? But it's an attraction,
whatever it is. I don't know what it is.
39
00:04:20,094 --> 00:04:23,063
- You didn't tell me that before.
- No, I kept it to myself.
40
00:04:23,531 --> 00:04:29,136
Yeah, so, we started knocking up sort
of a few little, old '50s songs mostly,
41
00:04:29,236 --> 00:04:30,547
wasn't it, Elvis and stuff like that?
42
00:04:30,571 --> 00:04:33,174
- Yeah, rock 'n' roll tunes, R&B, weren't it?
- Yeah.
43
00:04:33,274 --> 00:04:35,352
- We didn't play them particularly well.
- Yeah, three chords.
44
00:04:35,376 --> 00:04:38,946
But there were only three chords and we felt
like we were doing a reasonable job on them.
45
00:04:41,315 --> 00:04:42,850
Some may differ.
46
00:05:22,056 --> 00:05:24,625
We never considered being a duo.
We wanted to be a band.
47
00:05:24,725 --> 00:05:28,529
Yeah, so, it was really hard to find
other musicians in woking.
48
00:05:28,629 --> 00:05:32,900
There was maybe two drummers in the
whole of woking that were our age group.
49
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:38,138
One of them we tried out, which
didn't work, a big lad called Neil,
50
00:05:38,239 --> 00:05:41,041
who was more into brass band music, really.
51
00:05:41,141 --> 00:05:42,443
And then we found Rick.
52
00:05:46,747 --> 00:05:51,385
Rick buckler.
Born woking, surrey, england, 1955.
53
00:06:10,704 --> 00:06:11,948
They were looking for a drummer,
54
00:06:11,972 --> 00:06:14,041
I sort of pretended
to be a drummer at the time.
55
00:06:14,141 --> 00:06:17,478
The first thing that I was struck by
was the fact that,
56
00:06:17,578 --> 00:06:20,018
"hey, there's somebody who can actually
play guitar properly."
57
00:06:20,114 --> 00:06:22,616
Then you start to realise
that you can form songs.
58
00:06:22,716 --> 00:06:25,519
And there is the possibility, then,
of playing proper gigs.
59
00:06:29,356 --> 00:06:31,992
One of the first shows
was at the sheennater youth club.
60
00:06:32,092 --> 00:06:34,995
And Paul said to me,
"well, look. There's a stack of albums.
61
00:06:35,095 --> 00:06:37,095
"Listen to all of these,
learn as many as you can."
62
00:06:37,665 --> 00:06:40,034
And so, we came up with a set.
63
00:06:48,642 --> 00:06:51,345
Fuck, it's been a long time
since I was in here last.
64
00:06:51,445 --> 00:06:53,414
Must be over 40 years.
65
00:06:53,514 --> 00:06:56,317
I remember there wasn't
a huge crowd of people in here, really,
66
00:06:56,417 --> 00:06:58,385
just the usual youth club lot,
67
00:06:58,485 --> 00:07:00,421
with everybody just going bananas,
68
00:07:00,521 --> 00:07:02,823
and probably too much drink
for our age at that time.
69
00:07:02,923 --> 00:07:06,360
But weird being back in here because
I haven't been back in here since then.
70
00:07:06,460 --> 00:07:10,497
Probably that was what set the seed of,
"I think we wanna do more of this."
71
00:07:10,598 --> 00:07:13,968
We wanted to be
bigger than the Beatles, definitely.
72
00:07:16,070 --> 00:07:19,740
That's true.
I mean, that's what we wanted to be.
73
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,776
The next Beatles. That was the scheme.
74
00:07:23,644 --> 00:07:25,245
And we weren't.
75
00:07:45,666 --> 00:07:48,102
My dad started managing us, right.
He just loved it.
76
00:07:48,202 --> 00:07:51,405
No one said, "you're the manager."
That just came about.
77
00:07:51,505 --> 00:07:54,174
Obviously, everybody knows
he's my son, Paul.
78
00:07:54,274 --> 00:07:56,243
And you have to know his talent for music.
79
00:07:57,978 --> 00:07:59,222
So, I said, "well, I'll push you."
80
00:07:59,246 --> 00:08:01,682
I can't give him an education.
I can't give him money.
81
00:08:01,782 --> 00:08:04,518
So, I give him what I can give him.
Inspiration. Shall we say that?
82
00:08:04,618 --> 00:08:07,655
Or a push, whatever a father can do
inthatcause.
83
00:08:07,921 --> 00:08:10,424
He was just always encouraging, weren't he?
84
00:08:10,557 --> 00:08:13,794
And he was always hustling,
trying to get a gig, or get a Van,
85
00:08:13,894 --> 00:08:14,895
or a bit of equipment.
86
00:08:15,229 --> 00:08:20,968
John was always out sort of
hustling for something on our behalf.
87
00:08:21,068 --> 00:08:22,136
I think he was great.
88
00:08:22,236 --> 00:08:28,208
John took on the role of chatting to
the right people at the working men's clubs
89
00:08:28,308 --> 00:08:33,580
and the cius, and what have you,
and putting us fonnard to play there.
90
00:08:33,681 --> 00:08:35,392
It was just three-piece
for a long time, weren't it?
91
00:08:35,416 --> 00:08:38,318
Yeah, two guitars and drums
for quite a long time, with no bass.
92
00:08:38,419 --> 00:08:40,621
The original plan was that
Paul was gonna move onto bass
93
00:08:40,721 --> 00:08:42,423
because macca was his big hero.
94
00:08:43,090 --> 00:08:47,461
And that was the sort of lineup we
envisaged, with another guitar player.
95
00:08:47,561 --> 00:08:50,164
Me on guitar, another guitar player,
Paul on bass, and drums.
96
00:08:50,631 --> 00:08:54,068
Bruce foxton.
Born woking, surrey, england, 1955.
97
00:09:05,579 --> 00:09:10,718
I think I saw some sort of ad about the
jam were looking for a rhythm guitarist.
98
00:09:10,818 --> 00:09:13,463
So, iwent along for that,
and met Paul, and Rick, and Steve brookes.
99
00:09:13,487 --> 00:09:16,223
And it just clicked, and we got on well.
100
00:09:16,323 --> 00:09:19,560
And they were gigging, which was
right at the top of my shopping list.
101
00:09:19,660 --> 00:09:21,595
You know?
I wanted to get out there and play.
102
00:09:38,112 --> 00:09:41,081
Originally, I was playing bass
when Bruce came around
103
00:09:41,181 --> 00:09:43,517
and he was gonna play rhythm guitar.
104
00:09:43,617 --> 00:09:49,089
But Bruce wasn't a powerful enough rhythm
guitarist, really, for what we wanted.
105
00:09:49,189 --> 00:09:53,761
Paul, I think, suggested to me, he said,
"well, look, why don't you have that,"
106
00:09:53,861 --> 00:09:58,699
gave me his bass,
"and I'll take over on rhythm/lead guitar?"
107
00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:00,601
And it just worked. You know?
108
00:10:05,606 --> 00:10:08,842
We disparaged everything that was current
during that period.
109
00:10:08,942 --> 00:10:11,879
'Cause we had Gary glitter
and the bay city rollers.
110
00:10:11,979 --> 00:10:16,483
And we were really, really,
totally against all that sort of stuff.
111
00:10:16,583 --> 00:10:19,920
So, we didn't model ourselves at all
on anything that was current.
112
00:10:55,722 --> 00:10:58,592
The only band that made any sense
was dr feelgood
113
00:10:58,692 --> 00:11:02,796
because they had that kind of brash,
aggressive R&B for a start as well,
114
00:11:02,896 --> 00:11:06,266
but violence to it,
and it was everything you want as a kid.
115
00:11:06,633 --> 00:11:07,811
When we saw them we just went,
116
00:11:07,835 --> 00:11:11,205
"god, this is just something
totally different." Nothing like we'd...
117
00:11:11,305 --> 00:11:15,442
And it was just hard-edged R&B.
Real sort of distinctive.
118
00:11:37,497 --> 00:11:40,901
Paul and Steve were very close,
they were really good mates.
119
00:11:41,001 --> 00:11:44,705
So, it was a bit of a blow when Steve decided
that he'd had enough and he wanted to leave.
120
00:11:44,805 --> 00:11:48,809
I mean, we weren't earning a great deal
of money, but we were working quite hard.
121
00:11:48,909 --> 00:11:53,080
So, it was sort of understandable
that he had enough of that, really.
122
00:11:53,447 --> 00:11:57,651
With Steve leaving, it kind of
123
00:11:57,885 --> 00:12:01,421
allowed me to become
the leader of the band.
124
00:12:01,688 --> 00:12:02,823
- I guess is right.
- Yeah.
125
00:12:02,923 --> 00:12:04,825
I think that's another reason we parted,
126
00:12:04,925 --> 00:12:06,870
was because we were
sort of struggling for dominance.
127
00:12:06,894 --> 00:12:08,638
- Yeah, I guess so, yeah.
- Do we do this one, do we do...
128
00:12:08,662 --> 00:12:10,631
Whereas we'd always agreed
on what we were doing.
129
00:12:10,831 --> 00:12:13,333
I just think it's that thing,
unless you are totally united,
130
00:12:13,567 --> 00:12:17,571
every band needs a leader in it
or someone who can focus
131
00:12:17,671 --> 00:12:19,273
and have a vision for the band.
132
00:12:37,925 --> 00:12:39,493
I came late to the who, right.
133
00:12:39,593 --> 00:12:42,829
I have no idea why,
but I don't remember them from the '60s.
134
00:12:42,930 --> 00:12:47,301
And then I managed to get a copy
of their first album, my generation,
135
00:12:47,401 --> 00:12:49,069
which is still my favourite who record.
136
00:12:49,169 --> 00:12:51,204
And by far, the sound was amazing.
137
00:12:51,305 --> 00:12:56,176
Again, it had that kind of real edge to it
and sort of violence to it,
138
00:12:56,276 --> 00:12:58,378
or aggression, however
you wanna look at it.
139
00:13:03,550 --> 00:13:05,585
But anyway,
it caught my imagination for sure,
140
00:13:05,652 --> 00:13:08,455
and so much so
141
00:13:08,555 --> 00:13:13,560
that I tried to rewrite the record, really,
on our first album.
142
00:13:13,627 --> 00:13:14,628
Sorry, Pete.
143
00:13:18,899 --> 00:13:24,805
I'd had this vision from god saying,
"you shall be a mod from this day onwards."
144
00:13:24,905 --> 00:13:29,409
And that was it for me, mate.
I was fucking off. I was away.
145
00:13:31,812 --> 00:13:34,157
So, I said to the others,
"look, this is where we're gonna go,
146
00:13:34,181 --> 00:13:36,960
"this is the direction, we need to
have a look. I mean, this is gonna be it."
147
00:13:36,984 --> 00:13:39,052
And luckily they went along with it.
148
00:13:39,152 --> 00:13:41,655
It was a good image and it felt sharp.
149
00:13:41,755 --> 00:13:45,559
The look was very important.
It reflected a lot about us. It worked.
150
00:14:15,355 --> 00:14:18,225
During the '70s,
I was kind of waiting for our time, really.
151
00:14:18,325 --> 00:14:21,495
Not just me as a person,
but I mean our generation.
152
00:14:49,389 --> 00:14:51,425
And I found that when
I saw the sex pistols.
153
00:14:51,525 --> 00:14:53,760
And just to be in the audience,
seeing those bands
154
00:14:53,860 --> 00:14:58,331
and seeing all people my age, which
you just didn't have that scene in woking.
155
00:14:58,465 --> 00:15:03,703
I tried so hard to be nice.
156
00:15:03,804 --> 00:15:05,972
Then I saw the pistols and clash
and all those bands.
157
00:15:06,073 --> 00:15:07,650
I felt there was a
connection there, really.
158
00:15:07,674 --> 00:15:10,720
I thought there was a connection between
what I was into and the whole mod thing,
159
00:15:10,744 --> 00:15:12,979
but it was also
a contemporary connection as well.
160
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:14,791
Not that I thought we should go off
and be a punk band,
161
00:15:14,815 --> 00:15:16,325
but I just thought,
"this is such a great scene.
162
00:15:16,349 --> 00:15:19,019
"This is people our age,
we can play to these people."
163
00:15:19,119 --> 00:15:22,456
Once we discovered that
there was a good scene in London,
164
00:15:22,556 --> 00:15:26,126
and it was only an hour drive,
it was definitely the place to head for.
165
00:15:38,305 --> 00:15:41,208
So, our aim was to get into London,
hopefully get a bit of press,
166
00:15:41,308 --> 00:15:42,943
get the name about a bit more.
167
00:15:43,043 --> 00:15:45,112
Possibly get record companies down.
168
00:15:45,212 --> 00:15:49,182
They weren't really that prepared to
come out to what they saw as the sticks.
169
00:15:55,322 --> 00:15:59,159
Adrian thrills. Born London, england, 1958.
170
00:16:05,866 --> 00:16:08,135
First time I saw the band I was 16.
171
00:16:08,235 --> 00:16:12,973
It must have been around September '76.
And I went along with a couple of friends.
172
00:16:13,073 --> 00:16:15,308
We'd heard about them
through the grapevine.
173
00:16:15,408 --> 00:16:18,311
So, we went along expecting
another down-the-line punk band,
174
00:16:18,445 --> 00:16:20,445
so it was quite a surprise
when you saw this group.
175
00:16:20,614 --> 00:16:24,751
One of them had pretty long hair, which
just wasn't the done thing at the time,
176
00:16:25,452 --> 00:16:30,624
wearing sharp black suits
and having strong '60s influences,
177
00:16:30,724 --> 00:16:32,425
and being slightly more melodic,
178
00:16:32,526 --> 00:16:36,196
maybe slightly more musicianly
than most of the punk bands.
179
00:16:47,874 --> 00:16:53,246
After the gig, my friend, Shane macgowan,
and I, we started chatting to Paul.
180
00:16:53,346 --> 00:16:56,616
He just seemed very much like
the kind of kid I was at school with.
181
00:16:56,716 --> 00:17:00,053
We're doing this film.
182
00:17:00,153 --> 00:17:02,822
And I was living in the new town
of stevenage at that time.
183
00:17:02,989 --> 00:17:06,159
And Paul was from woking, almost...
184
00:17:06,259 --> 00:17:09,563
We were kind of kids from the satellite
towns coming up to the big smoke.
185
00:17:09,663 --> 00:17:12,799
And there was definitely a bond there.
186
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,009
We had a four-week residency
at the red cow, right,
187
00:17:23,109 --> 00:17:24,349
which was a pub in hammersmith.
188
00:17:24,444 --> 00:17:26,580
The first week there was 50 people, maybe.
189
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,615
And the next week there was 100 people.
190
00:17:28,715 --> 00:17:31,594
And then by week three and four,
there was fucking queues around the block,
191
00:17:31,618 --> 00:17:33,553
and I thought that was sort of amazing.
192
00:17:33,653 --> 00:17:36,356
You could just feel this thing growing,
organically growing.
193
00:17:45,332 --> 00:17:49,903
In 1976, the jam wouldn't really get
much of a look-in in the music press.
194
00:17:50,003 --> 00:17:54,007
And so, it was left to the likes of myself
and Shane macgowan,
195
00:17:54,107 --> 00:17:55,947
who were doing
some of the early punk fanzines.
196
00:17:56,009 --> 00:17:57,677
This one's mine, 48 thrills,
197
00:17:57,811 --> 00:18:03,083
in which you have, possibly,
the first-ever jam interview, perhaps.
198
00:18:03,450 --> 00:18:06,853
It wasn't really until the publicity
that the punk thing was getting
199
00:18:06,953 --> 00:18:09,322
that I think the record companies,
200
00:18:09,422 --> 00:18:11,992
their attention was turned to
what the hell's going on here.
201
00:18:22,102 --> 00:18:24,738
It almost became a bit of a fight
202
00:18:24,838 --> 00:18:26,806
that the record companies
had to sign somebody.
203
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,084
Chris parry.
Born warrington, New Zealand, 1949.
204
00:18:42,022 --> 00:18:46,059
In '76, I was an a&r man
for polydor records.
205
00:18:46,159 --> 00:18:50,597
I was on the hunt for punk bands at the
time, trying to bring them into the label.
206
00:18:50,697 --> 00:18:53,967
So, I was at a show, Shane macgowan
came up to me and says, "here, Chris."
207
00:18:54,067 --> 00:18:57,203
He says, "look, there's a band playing
this Saturday night.
208
00:18:57,304 --> 00:19:00,674
"First on, check 'em out, they're great,
they're called the jam."
209
00:19:05,145 --> 00:19:07,914
The whole approach was very, very exciting.
210
00:19:08,014 --> 00:19:10,917
And I thought Paul particularly
was outstanding as a frontman.
211
00:19:11,017 --> 00:19:15,255
They just seemed like
a group that was gonna deliver.
212
00:19:24,664 --> 00:19:26,533
Paul was obviously the special one.
213
00:19:26,633 --> 00:19:28,953
He was pretty determined,
he was pretty sure about himself.
214
00:19:29,035 --> 00:19:30,146
He said, "Chris, I'm telling you,
215
00:19:30,170 --> 00:19:32,238
"I am gonna be quite something
in this country."
216
00:19:32,339 --> 00:19:33,840
And I said, "good on you.
217
00:19:33,940 --> 00:19:37,477
"Well, you're 19, go for it."
218
00:19:44,617 --> 00:19:46,252
Chris saw something in us.
219
00:19:46,353 --> 00:19:49,589
We signed for 6 grand,
which was more money in those days,
220
00:19:49,689 --> 00:19:51,424
but it still weren't that much money.
221
00:19:51,524 --> 00:19:54,170
We would've been signed for 600
fucking quid, to be honest with you.
222
00:19:54,194 --> 00:19:55,671
Do you know what I mean? We were skint.
223
00:19:55,695 --> 00:19:57,664
When they gave us the cheque,
my old man was like,
224
00:19:57,764 --> 00:20:01,234
"well, we ain't got a bank account,
how are we gonna fucking change it?"
225
00:20:03,303 --> 00:20:07,474
Vic coppersmith-heaven.
Born London, england, 1945.
226
00:20:11,578 --> 00:20:14,714
I'd been working at olympic studios
at that time for about five years.
227
00:20:14,814 --> 00:20:16,015
I worked with the stones,
228
00:20:16,116 --> 00:20:19,953
I worked with George Harrison,
who was producing Billy Preston.
229
00:20:20,053 --> 00:20:25,859
And I was asked to engineer the clash,
Billy idol with generation x, and the jam.
230
00:20:25,959 --> 00:20:29,829
And it was almost like, "choose one of these
bands to work with, what do you think?"
231
00:20:29,929 --> 00:20:33,366
And I just really wanted to see the jam,
and went to see them,
232
00:20:33,466 --> 00:20:35,135
and was just completely blown away.
233
00:20:35,235 --> 00:20:39,105
There was no question about
who I should direct my energies towards.
234
00:20:49,215 --> 00:20:52,919
They had a very interesting set.
It was very vital. It was highly energetic.
235
00:20:53,052 --> 00:20:55,955
It was sharp, really enthusiastic.
236
00:20:56,156 --> 00:21:01,494
And it was just... I mean, it just captured
every imagination you wanted to have
237
00:21:01,594 --> 00:21:03,496
as a producer as well.
238
00:21:03,596 --> 00:21:05,932
To want to be able to capture that sound.
239
00:21:11,438 --> 00:21:16,543
And in the city did stand out as a
pretty strong single at the time as well.
240
00:21:16,976 --> 00:21:19,913
It was such a great song,
we'd play it three times some nights.
241
00:21:20,013 --> 00:21:22,081
We start with it, end with it,
242
00:21:22,182 --> 00:21:25,084
and if we got an encore,
we'd fucking encore it as well.
243
00:21:25,652 --> 00:21:27,053
That was a great song, I loved it.
244
00:21:27,153 --> 00:21:30,890
And I thought
that would always be the first single.
245
00:21:30,990 --> 00:21:32,470
There was never any doubt in my mind.
246
00:21:32,725 --> 00:21:35,929
Making their debut on this week's
top of the pops, here's the jam
247
00:21:36,029 --> 00:21:39,599
and an effervescent new 45
called in the city.
248
00:21:42,202 --> 00:21:45,038
That was fabulous to get on top of the pops
for the first time.
249
00:21:45,138 --> 00:21:48,274
That was really one of those milestones
that you tick off,
250
00:21:48,374 --> 00:21:51,444
because it was
the major music show in the UK.
251
00:22:02,155 --> 00:22:05,124
Amazing. Because I used to
just watch bands on the pops
252
00:22:05,225 --> 00:22:08,294
and think, "god, I'd
like to be doing that."
253
00:22:08,394 --> 00:22:09,596
And there I am doing it.
254
00:22:15,168 --> 00:22:18,371
It was amazing, because I'd been
watching top of the pops
255
00:22:18,471 --> 00:22:21,975
since I was a little kid, right,
religiously, every Thursday, without fail.
256
00:22:22,075 --> 00:22:24,844
Once we got on there and actually done it,
it was less amazing.
257
00:22:24,944 --> 00:22:27,113
You know, it's like,
"really, is that all it is?"
258
00:22:37,323 --> 00:22:41,794
Barry Cain. Born London, england, 1952.
259
00:22:42,262 --> 00:22:44,964
That was the start of my love affair
with the jam.
260
00:22:45,064 --> 00:22:48,334
I was about 22, quite old, really,
261
00:22:48,434 --> 00:22:50,470
working on a local newspaper
in south east London,
262
00:22:50,570 --> 00:22:53,039
doing the music entertainment side.
263
00:22:53,139 --> 00:22:55,842
I was a working-class
kid in the council flats.
264
00:22:55,942 --> 00:22:57,944
That's why it meant so much to me,
this music.
265
00:22:58,044 --> 00:23:01,948
It was modern music,
with the emphasis on "mod."
266
00:23:02,048 --> 00:23:07,520
It was the who kissed by motown,
with a dash of clash.
267
00:23:07,620 --> 00:23:12,559
And it really was a new kind soul, I found.
It was just wonderful.
268
00:23:19,832 --> 00:23:22,669
Right at the forefront of a new
phenomenon known as the new wave,
269
00:23:22,769 --> 00:23:24,313
they're called the jam and in the city.
270
00:23:24,337 --> 00:23:29,442
They had that imagination to know that,
if you appeared on top of the pops,
271
00:23:29,542 --> 00:23:33,346
you got to a generation of kids
that bought records.
272
00:23:35,949 --> 00:23:39,919
They tapped into that
and they got to those kids.
273
00:23:46,059 --> 00:23:47,994
We were gigging so hard as well.
274
00:23:48,094 --> 00:23:50,964
It was like five, six
shows at least a week.
275
00:23:51,064 --> 00:23:53,576
And travelling up and down the
length and breadth of the country, really.
276
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,903
It was a huge swell. You'd sense that
there was a big change happening.
277
00:24:09,482 --> 00:24:11,093
For me, they were probably
my favourite times,
278
00:24:11,117 --> 00:24:14,821
because there was this sort of
sense of innocence about it still,
279
00:24:14,921 --> 00:24:17,666
and yet there was this excitement
because we'd feel we're getting somewhere,
280
00:24:17,690 --> 00:24:19,525
we're getting an audience together.
281
00:24:25,665 --> 00:24:29,969
Derek d'souza. Born Bombay, India, 1959.
282
00:24:33,406 --> 00:24:35,575
I first heard the jam in 1977.
283
00:24:35,675 --> 00:24:38,621
There was a lot of new stuff around
that came out at that time that I liked.
284
00:24:38,645 --> 00:24:41,814
The police, the stranglers,
sex pistols, the clash.
285
00:24:41,914 --> 00:24:42,914
But the jam stood out
286
00:24:42,982 --> 00:24:45,561
because they're probably younger
than a lot of the bands, I think, anyway.
287
00:24:45,585 --> 00:24:48,488
It felt like they're one of us.
288
00:24:48,888 --> 00:24:51,791
And I liked them because, you know,
much as I love the punk idea,
289
00:24:51,891 --> 00:24:53,393
and I loved a lot of the bands,
290
00:24:53,493 --> 00:24:56,095
I was never into ripped-up clothes
and safety pins.
291
00:24:56,195 --> 00:24:57,730
That was just never gonna be my thing.
292
00:25:03,169 --> 00:25:06,606
A lot of the punk bands
treated 1976 as a year zero.
293
00:25:06,706 --> 00:25:09,142
Anything that existed before that
was history.
294
00:25:09,242 --> 00:25:12,412
Whereas Paul,
he wasn't afraid of reaching back.
295
00:25:12,512 --> 00:25:16,449
I remember going to his house in woking
after one of those early gigs,
296
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:18,851
and it was at the height of punk,
297
00:25:18,951 --> 00:25:24,157
and he had a bedroom festooned with
Beatles magazines, '60s memorabilia.
298
00:25:24,257 --> 00:25:28,194
He had an obsession
and a real love of that era.
299
00:25:28,294 --> 00:25:34,033
Their early sets were, a good 30 or 40%
of the songs were covers from the '60s.
300
00:25:34,133 --> 00:25:38,204
We were seen as being, yeah,
a bit of an anachronism, I suppose, really.
301
00:25:38,304 --> 00:25:42,642
Showing all our '60s influences,
and that's, you know, openly.
302
00:25:42,742 --> 00:25:44,720
I remember seeing Joe strummer
come to one of our gigs,
303
00:25:44,744 --> 00:25:46,212
when we played in Ronnie Scotts,
304
00:25:46,312 --> 00:25:49,182
and he had a shirt on that said,
"Chuck Berry is dead."
305
00:25:49,282 --> 00:25:50,726
I was like,
"you don't mean that, mate, do you?
306
00:25:50,750 --> 00:25:53,319
"Because we fucking love Chuck Berry,
you know?"
307
00:25:53,419 --> 00:25:55,521
And I'm sure Joe didn't mean that either.
308
00:25:55,621 --> 00:25:58,524
So, there was a lot of posturing
and a lot of bullshit as well.
309
00:26:04,263 --> 00:26:07,033
Even from the first album,
you could tell that the skill was there
310
00:26:07,133 --> 00:26:09,302
and there was the melody and the lyrics.
311
00:26:09,402 --> 00:26:11,304
They weren't just like a three-chord band.
312
00:26:12,772 --> 00:26:17,777
That album,
the songs were pretty much our live set.
313
00:26:29,522 --> 00:26:31,624
It was a big deal, of course,
to make an album.
314
00:26:31,724 --> 00:26:34,327
But we were kind of
at the mercy of the producer, really,
315
00:26:34,427 --> 00:26:36,829
because what the fuck did we know?
316
00:26:36,929 --> 00:26:38,664
There wasn't very much over-dubbing
317
00:26:38,765 --> 00:26:42,335
as essentially we wanted
to just capture the live set
318
00:26:42,435 --> 00:26:44,470
and make that as powerful as possible.
319
00:26:44,570 --> 00:26:46,739
I did have some...
320
00:26:46,839 --> 00:26:49,776
I think I tried to get Paul
to do some double-tracking,
321
00:26:49,876 --> 00:26:53,513
but I used a harmonising thing,
which he didn't like very much at the time.
322
00:27:07,660 --> 00:27:12,465
I remember being disappointed with it.
I didn't feel it was our sound.
323
00:27:12,999 --> 00:27:16,235
Because Vic would always
get us to track stuff up,
324
00:27:16,335 --> 00:27:19,739
which I guess in some ways did become
what people think of as jam sounds.
325
00:27:24,877 --> 00:27:29,982
Keiko egawa. Born in Tokyo, Japan, 1960.
326
00:27:35,321 --> 00:27:38,825
I think it was around '77
327
00:27:38,925 --> 00:27:41,828
that the new wave
started coming into Japan.
328
00:27:41,928 --> 00:27:46,766
The record company arranged
this so-called film concert,
329
00:27:46,866 --> 00:27:51,037
to show people a promo video at the time.
330
00:27:51,137 --> 00:27:56,776
And it was quite good because,
obviously, we didn't have any Internet,
331
00:27:56,876 --> 00:27:59,412
or they weren't showing it on television.
332
00:28:11,457 --> 00:28:14,460
And that's when I saw the jam,
and it was on at school.
333
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,163
I still remember seeing it there.
334
00:28:19,432 --> 00:28:24,871
I couldn't speak English at the time,
but I did understand a little bit of words.
335
00:28:24,971 --> 00:28:29,175
But it wasn't enough
to be able to understand the whole lyrics.
336
00:28:29,275 --> 00:28:32,445
So, basically, I didn't know
what they were singing about,
337
00:28:32,545 --> 00:28:36,682
but music was really, really good.
338
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,631
Martin Freeman.
Born aldershot, england, 1971.
339
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:55,801
I first became aware of the jam
340
00:28:55,902 --> 00:28:58,638
when my brother Tim,
who's 10 years older than me,
341
00:28:58,738 --> 00:29:01,807
brought home in the city, the album, 1977.
342
00:29:01,908 --> 00:29:04,844
And I remember hearing swearing on it,
and that was exciting.
343
00:29:04,944 --> 00:29:08,781
It was scary for me,
because I didn't want our dad to hear it.
344
00:29:13,185 --> 00:29:14,396
It wasn't until a couple of years later,
345
00:29:14,420 --> 00:29:17,556
where I thought, "hang on, now
I'm gonna discover this now for myself."
346
00:29:17,657 --> 00:29:19,492
And that's when
I really went to town on them.
347
00:29:19,859 --> 00:29:24,397
It wasn't just about
smash it up kind of punk stuff.
348
00:29:24,497 --> 00:29:27,175
But they were as much as a punk band,
or anything, they were a pop band.
349
00:29:27,199 --> 00:29:28,399
And a really, really good one.
350
00:29:36,108 --> 00:29:38,744
The jam had quite
an uneasy relationship with punk.
351
00:29:38,844 --> 00:29:40,212
The punk influences were obvious.
352
00:29:40,313 --> 00:29:44,283
And yet they were never quite as
kind of hip with the London punk crowd
353
00:29:44,383 --> 00:29:45,918
as maybe the pistols and the clash.
354
00:29:46,018 --> 00:29:49,588
There was a bit of a kind of
fashionista, art school element.
355
00:29:49,689 --> 00:29:53,426
For a supposedly non-elitist scene
it could be quite exclusive.
356
00:29:53,559 --> 00:29:58,698
And the jam, I think, coming from woking,
they almost seemed slightly as outsiders.
357
00:29:59,098 --> 00:30:03,035
We did this interview with nme,
our first cover story with nme.
358
00:30:03,135 --> 00:30:05,271
And we were saying
we're probably going to vote Tory
359
00:30:05,371 --> 00:30:06,949
in the next election and all that,
which is bollocks.
360
00:30:06,973 --> 00:30:10,443
It was to be contrary
361
00:30:10,543 --> 00:30:15,314
and to set us up
as opposites of pistols or the clash.
362
00:30:15,414 --> 00:30:18,351
The pistols were kind of anarchy
and the clash were kind of left wing,
363
00:30:18,451 --> 00:30:20,796
and we were like, "yeah,
we don't mind the royal family, really."
364
00:30:20,820 --> 00:30:22,355
But it did us no favours.
365
00:30:42,008 --> 00:30:45,378
Eddie piller. Born London, england, 1963.
366
00:30:50,583 --> 00:30:52,018
When I came across the jam,
367
00:30:52,118 --> 00:30:55,721
they kind of made me realise
that you didn't have to be a punk rocker
368
00:30:55,821 --> 00:30:57,056
to like this kind of music.
369
00:30:57,156 --> 00:31:00,159
I think up to then I was thinking,
"am I a punk?
370
00:31:00,259 --> 00:31:02,928
"I like that I'm wearing a mohairjumper
and a school tie."
371
00:31:03,029 --> 00:31:04,630
That was rubbish, I was 15 years old.
372
00:31:04,730 --> 00:31:07,099
And it was only when I saw the jam
373
00:31:07,199 --> 00:31:10,569
that I thought, "you don't have to be
all that crap, you could be this."
374
00:31:24,550 --> 00:31:28,354
Weller made you feel that it was about you
and your generation,
375
00:31:28,454 --> 00:31:31,490
not some kind of
poncey art school generation
376
00:31:31,590 --> 00:31:33,368
that took heroin
and walked down the king's road.
377
00:31:33,392 --> 00:31:34,927
It wasn't like that.
378
00:31:35,027 --> 00:31:38,731
It was almost like working-class kids
with something to believe in the future.
379
00:31:44,837 --> 00:31:48,908
All around the world, to me,
was the first mod record for my generation.
380
00:31:49,008 --> 00:31:53,712
Not my generation, the who,
my generation, the postpunk generation.
381
00:31:53,813 --> 00:31:57,116
And I was at school when that came out,
and it had a massive effect on me.
382
00:31:57,216 --> 00:32:01,420
This was the first of the records that said,
actually, "we're not punks, we're mods."
383
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,522
And I still regret that
wasn't on the album.
384
00:32:11,197 --> 00:32:15,101
In '77, polydor
was still operating on a model
385
00:32:15,201 --> 00:32:16,936
pretty much as it was in the '60s,
386
00:32:17,036 --> 00:32:20,206
where the Beatles, and the stones,
they put out two albums a year.
387
00:32:20,306 --> 00:32:24,610
And sure enough in 1977
the jam released two albums.
388
00:32:26,745 --> 00:32:28,447
Momentum was very important to me.
389
00:32:28,547 --> 00:32:31,484
I thought that
if we're going to have this success,
390
00:32:31,584 --> 00:32:34,353
we need to really
take it quickly, take it through.
391
00:32:34,587 --> 00:32:36,965
We took it on board and said,
"yeah, yeah, we'll do another album,"
392
00:32:36,989 --> 00:32:39,391
and just sort of leapt
in quite confidently,
393
00:32:39,492 --> 00:32:45,331
not really realising, maybe,
what was demanded of us.
394
00:32:45,431 --> 00:32:49,702
I'd had a couple of songs,
which I'd been writing,
395
00:32:49,802 --> 00:32:51,270
but I didn't really have too many.
396
00:32:51,370 --> 00:32:56,008
There was a lot of pressure on Paul,
a lot of pressure on all three of us,
397
00:32:56,108 --> 00:32:58,477
with playing and then recording,
398
00:32:58,577 --> 00:33:01,380
but Paul being a main songwriter...
399
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,082
I wouldn't say I'd help him out.
400
00:33:03,182 --> 00:33:07,620
I wanted to get some songs of my own,
I suppose, on the album.
401
00:33:34,747 --> 00:33:36,749
I think modern world is not a great record.
402
00:33:36,882 --> 00:33:39,842
It's got a few good songs on it,
but it's not a great album, I don't think.
403
00:33:39,885 --> 00:33:41,205
It wasn't a disappointment to me,
404
00:33:41,287 --> 00:33:46,392
because I'd gone to see them
at the royal college of art.
405
00:33:46,492 --> 00:33:47,726
I did a review of it.
406
00:33:47,826 --> 00:33:51,096
And I kind of eluded
to the colours of the union Jack,
407
00:33:51,197 --> 00:33:54,266
taking you through the three moods
that you get at a jam concert,
408
00:33:54,366 --> 00:33:59,605
like, red hot, expanding into white heat,
contracting into teenage blue.
409
00:33:59,705 --> 00:34:02,308
And Paul really liked that line,
410
00:34:02,408 --> 00:34:07,780
and he took "teenage blue" and
used it as a lyric in life from a window
411
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:09,381
from this is the modern world.
412
00:34:09,481 --> 00:34:10,816
"This is great.
413
00:34:10,916 --> 00:34:14,353
"I've got a lyric that's in a jam song
of something that I came up with."
414
00:34:14,453 --> 00:34:16,956
And he put my name on the back.
It was like winning an Oscar.
415
00:34:31,904 --> 00:34:35,608
So, I always thought
this is the modern world was a great album.
416
00:34:45,818 --> 00:34:50,522
It wasn't great by any standards,
and got bit of a pasting in the press.
417
00:34:50,623 --> 00:34:53,592
Kind of got written
off, really, after that.
418
00:34:53,692 --> 00:34:58,731
It was kind of like there was this
big sort of flash at first with in the city
419
00:35:00,766 --> 00:35:03,836
and then it just sort of
seemed to be fizzling out, really.
420
00:35:16,482 --> 00:35:18,317
The jam was a three-piece band.
421
00:35:18,417 --> 00:35:22,388
And in terms of songwriting,
my confidence was growing a bit,
422
00:35:22,488 --> 00:35:24,823
and I was getting my feet
under the table a bit more.
423
00:35:24,923 --> 00:35:26,134
I felt a little bit more comfortable,
424
00:35:26,158 --> 00:35:29,395
and wanted to contribute, try and
contribute, a bit more to the songwriting.
425
00:35:51,050 --> 00:35:53,252
Bruce's writing isn't like Paul's writing.
426
00:35:54,186 --> 00:35:56,622
And I sensed that there was a sense of,
427
00:35:56,722 --> 00:36:01,593
"okay, well, Bruce,
you can put some songs towards this."
428
00:36:01,694 --> 00:36:03,362
I'm not a great believer in that.
429
00:36:09,702 --> 00:36:12,371
I don't think I was that
arsed about it, really,
430
00:36:12,471 --> 00:36:14,907
because I fell in love with a girl
around that time,
431
00:36:15,007 --> 00:36:17,047
and I was kind of happyjust doing that,
to be honest
432
00:36:17,076 --> 00:36:19,111
I was a bit like, "I
don't give a fuck, really."
433
00:36:19,211 --> 00:36:23,082
I wasn't right. I didn't write.
I wasn't motivated.
434
00:36:23,182 --> 00:36:27,453
I think also the failing of the second
album was a bit like, "well, fuck it."
435
00:36:27,553 --> 00:36:31,957
I don't know why I was like that,
but anyway...
436
00:36:32,057 --> 00:36:36,562
But we started to make some other demos
for a possible third record.
437
00:36:37,029 --> 00:36:39,565
I just said, "there's nothing there.
438
00:36:39,665 --> 00:36:44,203
"I don't know what you're doing, Paul."
But, okay, that may be what it was.
439
00:36:44,303 --> 00:36:46,648
I mean, I knew he had a girlfriend
and they were kind of in love
440
00:36:46,672 --> 00:36:50,976
and quite tight and all of that.
441
00:36:51,410 --> 00:36:55,147
But I don't know, Bruce was
coming fonnard with tunes and ideas
442
00:36:55,247 --> 00:36:57,950
and even Rick had a couple of ideas.
443
00:36:58,050 --> 00:37:00,285
But they weren't...
444
00:37:00,386 --> 00:37:03,255
They weren't going to be...
They weren't going to cut it.
445
00:37:03,622 --> 00:37:07,526
I guess that's when you felt pressurised
446
00:37:07,626 --> 00:37:10,562
'cause you're almost
trying to write to order then,
447
00:37:10,662 --> 00:37:13,532
"well, what is going to satisfy you then,
Chris, what do you want?
448
00:37:13,632 --> 00:37:15,210
"And we'll try and write a song for you."
449
00:37:15,234 --> 00:37:16,902
It's like, hang about,
450
00:37:17,002 --> 00:37:21,206
we got this far with writing for ourselves
and what we believe in.
451
00:37:21,306 --> 00:37:26,311
And, yeah, that was a knock and it
obviously spurred Paul on, particularly,
452
00:37:26,412 --> 00:37:28,180
to have a re-think.
453
00:37:28,380 --> 00:37:32,985
So, I had to get my head
out of the girlfriend's blouse
454
00:37:33,085 --> 00:37:37,656
and get back into working again,
and start writing.
455
00:37:52,104 --> 00:37:55,707
Like any record, once you have one
or two songs that you're really happy with
456
00:37:55,808 --> 00:37:57,709
and you feel are
the real bones of the record,
457
00:37:57,810 --> 00:38:00,779
it just encourages you
to go further it, really.
458
00:38:00,946 --> 00:38:04,450
I mean, down in the tube station,
I kind of had all words
459
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:07,186
and I had some chords and stuff for it,
but I was a bit like,
460
00:38:07,286 --> 00:38:08,530
"I don't know, I'm not sure if its right."
461
00:38:08,554 --> 00:38:10,594
Vic Smith, bless him,
he was the one who said to me,
462
00:38:10,622 --> 00:38:13,759
"no, this could be great, you've got to
work on this and we could do this."
463
00:38:13,859 --> 00:38:16,028
He actually chucked the lyrics in the bin.
464
00:38:17,129 --> 00:38:18,697
And I pulled them out.
465
00:38:18,797 --> 00:38:22,434
I looked at them and just said, "this
looks really good, can't we work on this?"
466
00:38:22,534 --> 00:38:27,206
And the guys came in and bassline
happened, and the drum rhythm happened,
467
00:38:27,306 --> 00:38:29,541
and the track evolved out of that.
468
00:38:29,641 --> 00:38:31,986
And next thing is, I was
down at st John's wood tube station,
469
00:38:32,010 --> 00:38:36,982
with a little mobile recorder,
recording the tube trains.
470
00:38:37,182 --> 00:38:39,518
And rest is history, really.
471
00:39:33,839 --> 00:39:36,441
Everyone was talking about this song.
472
00:39:36,542 --> 00:39:38,410
There hadn't been a song like it before.
473
00:39:38,510 --> 00:39:41,346
It wasn't punk. It wasn't anything.
It was the jam.
474
00:39:47,352 --> 00:39:51,223
There was obviously a big part of, well,
"fuck you. We'll show you."
475
00:39:51,323 --> 00:39:54,660
But also you just knew
these were good songs,
476
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,628
that's what we aimed to achieve,
477
00:39:56,728 --> 00:40:01,800
was that they're good songs
and we knew they were special.
478
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:03,268
Let's hope everybody else does.
479
00:40:13,545 --> 00:40:18,116
All mod cons, of course is... my guess is that
it is most people's archetypal jam record.
480
00:40:18,216 --> 00:40:19,751
For good reason,
481
00:40:19,851 --> 00:40:23,655
'cause I guess it's where they really,
really set their sound,
482
00:40:23,755 --> 00:40:25,190
although the sound developed.
483
00:40:25,290 --> 00:40:27,459
But no one else sounded like that.
484
00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:32,664
It's got some of the best songs about youth
ever written by a British songwriter,
485
00:40:32,764 --> 00:40:33,966
on that record.
486
00:40:34,066 --> 00:40:35,867
Somehow, they got it right.
487
00:40:49,848 --> 00:40:52,317
They were conveying a different message
to working-class kids,
488
00:40:52,417 --> 00:40:54,286
and that is basically how mod happened.
489
00:40:54,386 --> 00:40:58,624
Mod is an aphorism for clean living
under difficult circumstances.
490
00:40:58,724 --> 00:41:01,235
This didn't happen around the clash,
it didn't happen around the damned
491
00:41:01,259 --> 00:41:02,861
or the sex pistols,
492
00:41:02,961 --> 00:41:06,598
where you had an
entire way of life created,
493
00:41:06,698 --> 00:41:09,935
or in this particular case,
re-created by one band.
494
00:41:10,335 --> 00:41:15,407
Weller was either very, very lucky
or very, very astute and clever
495
00:41:15,507 --> 00:41:17,609
because the jam made it happen.
496
00:41:31,390 --> 00:41:35,193
Mod for me is just about being well-dressed,
about having good taste and style.
497
00:41:35,293 --> 00:41:36,762
So, in that sense I'm greedy,
498
00:41:36,862 --> 00:41:38,773
I call anything that I like mod,
do you know what I mean?
499
00:41:38,797 --> 00:41:41,275
I call everything from the jam
to Crosby, stills, Nash & young "mod."
500
00:41:41,299 --> 00:41:43,878
'Cause I think, "no, it's good,
its quality and there's detail in it."
501
00:41:43,902 --> 00:41:46,772
And so, that for me is my definition
of modernism in a way.
502
00:41:46,872 --> 00:41:50,542
You cannot be a 50-year-old punk.
503
00:41:50,642 --> 00:41:53,812
But there's plenty of 50-year-old mods,
there's plenty of 70-year-old mods.
504
00:41:53,912 --> 00:41:55,681
It's just a classic, timeless thing.
505
00:41:56,381 --> 00:42:00,118
So, it's funny, really, because
sort of from my daydream, fantasy things
506
00:42:00,218 --> 00:42:01,396
when I was back in woking, thinking,
507
00:42:01,420 --> 00:42:04,056
"yeah, we're gonna
get this thing going again."
508
00:42:04,156 --> 00:42:05,724
And it did happen.
509
00:42:13,832 --> 00:42:17,502
Paul abbott.
I was born in burnley, england, 1960.
510
00:42:21,306 --> 00:42:26,244
In 1977, I became
intensively aware of the jam,
511
00:42:26,344 --> 00:42:29,748
I was working in a shoe factory
called lambert howarth in burnley.
512
00:42:29,848 --> 00:42:31,183
I was only there short term,
513
00:42:31,316 --> 00:42:33,528
but I remember Paul weller
kind of screaming out at that time,
514
00:42:33,552 --> 00:42:37,089
and I was just a naughty little kid
who walked around frowning,
515
00:42:37,189 --> 00:42:40,225
and I think when his music turned up
and it sounded like I looked,
516
00:42:40,325 --> 00:42:43,128
I think that's when we were onto a winner.
517
00:42:51,570 --> 00:42:54,039
Punk was defined by
make a loud noise and back it up.
518
00:42:54,139 --> 00:42:58,877
But the melodic nature
of Paul weller's overcoat
519
00:42:58,977 --> 00:43:03,582
just, I think, threw everybody off the
scent of it being called punk, quite punk.
520
00:43:03,682 --> 00:43:06,051
It was bigger than that,
and it was better than that.
521
00:43:23,201 --> 00:43:25,003
The jam were a pop band.
522
00:43:25,103 --> 00:43:27,472
In the same way
that the small faces were a pop band,
523
00:43:27,572 --> 00:43:30,876
the who were a pop band, the Beatles
were a pop band, the jam were.
524
00:43:30,976 --> 00:43:36,014
And whereas a lot of the punk bands
from that era fell by the wayside,
525
00:43:36,114 --> 00:43:37,516
the jam kept their heads down
526
00:43:37,616 --> 00:43:41,520
and continued to produce
a whole stream of classic singles.
527
00:43:41,620 --> 00:43:46,458
At that time, all of those great heroes
of the punk movement,
528
00:43:46,558 --> 00:43:50,262
you know, strummer
was rocking the casbah,
529
00:43:50,362 --> 00:43:52,764
Johnny rotten had given up,
or public image,
530
00:43:52,864 --> 00:43:55,000
but Paul weller was writing songs
that meant something
531
00:43:55,100 --> 00:43:56,334
to me and my generation.
532
00:43:56,601 --> 00:44:00,172
I was mindful of the audience.
I wanted to get across to my generation.
533
00:44:00,272 --> 00:44:01,973
But it wasn't too difficult
534
00:44:02,107 --> 00:44:04,719
'cause I was just writing about
how I felt as a 19- or 20-year-old,
535
00:44:04,743 --> 00:44:07,221
going through the same experiences
as a lot of other kids as well.
536
00:44:07,245 --> 00:44:09,614
So, I didn't have to
put myself into their shoes,
537
00:44:09,714 --> 00:44:11,554
I was already in their fucking shoes.
You know?
538
00:44:16,221 --> 00:44:21,126
The clarity with which he writes
about youth, it's not patronising,
539
00:44:21,226 --> 00:44:25,463
it's not bubble-gum,
but it's full of a real joy and angst,
540
00:44:25,564 --> 00:44:28,800
and it's very present about living now.
541
00:44:28,934 --> 00:44:31,494
"I'm a young... I'm a 20-, 21-year-old
and I'm writing this now."
542
00:44:43,915 --> 00:44:47,819
When you're young,
I used to love this song so much.
543
00:44:47,919 --> 00:44:52,290
I used to put a high volume
on my walkman and listen to it.
544
00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:56,561
"But you find out life isn't like that,
it's so hard to comprehend."
545
00:44:56,661 --> 00:44:58,730
That line, I used to love.
546
00:45:18,850 --> 00:45:22,254
I thought everyone was old
by the time they were 21, when I was a kid.
547
00:45:22,354 --> 00:45:25,590
I can remember my 21st birthday
when I thought, "it's fucking over.
548
00:45:25,690 --> 00:45:26,690
"It really is all over."
549
00:45:26,758 --> 00:45:30,395
And, yeah, our music
was really about youth, I think.
550
00:45:30,495 --> 00:45:34,466
I think the jam music
really kind of caught that time, really.
551
00:45:42,140 --> 00:45:45,343
He spoke so, so specifically
to a group of people,
552
00:45:45,443 --> 00:45:46,978
or maybe to an age of people,
553
00:45:47,078 --> 00:45:50,715
that if you missed that boat,
I think it's hard to get actually.
554
00:45:50,815 --> 00:45:54,219
You can appreciate writing if it's not
immediately part of your world,
555
00:45:54,319 --> 00:45:59,424
if it's got a universal hook to it, and
the jam were not universal, they weren't.
556
00:45:59,658 --> 00:46:02,761
There was a lot of testing of the water
with lots of territories,
557
00:46:02,861 --> 00:46:04,896
and america predominantly so.
558
00:46:04,996 --> 00:46:09,401
Because america was beginning to
sit up and take notice
559
00:46:09,501 --> 00:46:10,869
of what was going on in the UK.
560
00:46:10,969 --> 00:46:14,205
So, we did go out there
and we did do some shows.
561
00:46:14,606 --> 00:46:19,277
Right, this is our bid for us success.
562
00:46:21,646 --> 00:46:26,151
This one is called strange zip code.
563
00:46:47,105 --> 00:46:50,508
The states, generally, I suppose,
was a bit of a disaster for us.
564
00:46:50,608 --> 00:46:55,513
It was a bit like the who in their early
days, deemed too British to crack the states.
565
00:46:56,014 --> 00:46:58,014
They didn't work america
like a lot of other bands,
566
00:46:58,083 --> 00:47:01,753
so they didn't go there and stay for six
months and tour all over america.
567
00:47:01,853 --> 00:47:05,790
They were more of a British band, actually.
568
00:47:34,953 --> 00:47:37,722
I know very few American jam fans,
not many.
569
00:47:37,822 --> 00:47:41,726
A lot of people have never heard of
the jam. It's very specific, that style.
570
00:47:41,826 --> 00:47:45,997
I think it explains why we in this country,
if you like the jam, you love them.
571
00:47:46,097 --> 00:47:47,866
'Cause it really does feel like yours.
572
00:47:56,775 --> 00:48:01,546
Maria mchugh. Born London, england, 1965.
573
00:48:09,854 --> 00:48:15,293
Gosh, I would have been 14 or so,
I was living at home in Wembley.
574
00:48:15,393 --> 00:48:16,895
So, a real suburb.
575
00:48:16,995 --> 00:48:22,534
Me and my mates were going to
an Irish catholic convent school.
576
00:48:22,634 --> 00:48:27,672
And I think for us,
music was a way of escaping
577
00:48:27,972 --> 00:48:31,409
from the sort of constraints
of that suburban life.
578
00:48:31,509 --> 00:48:35,046
I remember when setting sons came out,
one of us had a ghetto blaster,
579
00:48:35,146 --> 00:48:40,852
so we'd play setting sons walking to school
and singing to all the tracks.
580
00:48:42,153 --> 00:48:46,257
We must have looked so stupid,
but we were just completely obsessed.
581
00:49:02,974 --> 00:49:06,978
On setting sons I had this idea
of making a concept record,
582
00:49:07,078 --> 00:49:08,518
something had a kind of thing to it.
583
00:49:08,580 --> 00:49:12,450
It was going to be about three friends
who were tight and close-knit.
584
00:49:12,550 --> 00:49:15,186
There were quite a few songs
that kind of link up.
585
00:49:15,286 --> 00:49:17,465
Thick as thieves was on that.
That's a great song, I think.
586
00:49:17,489 --> 00:49:19,224
But I kind of lost my way. I just thought,
587
00:49:19,324 --> 00:49:21,724
"I can't be fucking doing this any more,
just make a record."
588
00:49:32,971 --> 00:49:36,774
That was the first record that I really
tried my hardest with the lyrics on,
589
00:49:36,875 --> 00:49:39,277
I really thought I could try
and elevate the lyrics,
590
00:49:39,377 --> 00:49:41,446
just a bit more kind of literary,
I suppose, really.
591
00:49:51,389 --> 00:49:54,325
I always felt that Paul weller was
wise beyond his years.
592
00:49:54,425 --> 00:49:57,996
There was something
about the way he wrote his lyrics
593
00:49:58,096 --> 00:49:59,831
that just set him apart.
594
00:50:07,272 --> 00:50:11,843
And you would pore over them and you were
trying to sort of understand what they meant.
595
00:50:12,343 --> 00:50:15,380
There was a right to work march,
which started in liverpool.
596
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,983
It wasn't at the height of thatcherism,
but it was the early doors.
597
00:50:19,150 --> 00:50:21,386
When did she get in? '79?
598
00:50:21,586 --> 00:50:24,565
And it was marching all the way down
to the country to the houses of parliament.
599
00:50:24,589 --> 00:50:27,659
And on their route,
they passed by eton college,
600
00:50:27,759 --> 00:50:31,496
where some of the pupils of eton
were jeering and taking the piss.
601
00:50:31,596 --> 00:50:35,900
I thought it was a great opportunity
to write a song about class, really,
602
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,602
in a different sort of way.
603
00:50:37,702 --> 00:50:42,106
And the eton rifles
is the kind of army cadet wing,
604
00:50:42,207 --> 00:50:44,887
where they go out and do war games
on the fields and all that shite.
605
00:50:52,417 --> 00:50:55,053
I mean, ultimately it says,
the revolution won't work
606
00:50:55,153 --> 00:50:57,755
because these people
have got too much power behind them.
607
00:50:57,855 --> 00:51:00,959
The odds are well stacked against us.
608
00:51:01,059 --> 00:51:03,437
And the, "sup up your beer
and collect your fags," I suppose,
609
00:51:03,461 --> 00:51:06,397
I was thinking, kind of,
the English revolution was sort of,
610
00:51:06,497 --> 00:51:07,741
"what time's the revolution starting?
611
00:51:07,765 --> 00:51:09,805
"For god's sake,
fuck it, have a quick drink first."
612
00:51:09,834 --> 00:51:12,237
It's a bit like that, isn't it?
613
00:51:15,206 --> 00:51:18,042
David Cameron said the eton rifles
was one of his favourite songs
614
00:51:18,142 --> 00:51:19,143
when he was at school.
615
00:51:19,844 --> 00:51:22,413
So, you obviously don't... they don't...
616
00:51:22,513 --> 00:51:24,692
Not everyone reads the words.
Not everyone reads the lyrics.
617
00:51:24,716 --> 00:51:29,854
Sometimes it's just a nice sound in the
background and the catchphrase people like.
618
00:51:30,021 --> 00:51:33,625
I wasn't aware of the eton rifles'
political message, not really,
619
00:51:33,725 --> 00:51:39,163
because as with a lot of Paul weller's
songs you had to go and look stuff up.
620
00:51:39,264 --> 00:51:41,165
But it made you look stuff up.
621
00:51:41,266 --> 00:51:43,668
If nothing else,
it activated you in that sense.
622
00:51:43,768 --> 00:51:46,704
Because you loved the music,
it will make you want to understand it.
623
00:51:58,383 --> 00:52:03,288
Den Davis.
Born in Manchester, england, 1967.
624
00:52:10,561 --> 00:52:13,564
The first time I saw them was
at Manchester Apollo, November '79,
625
00:52:13,665 --> 00:52:17,302
the setting sons tour. I'd be 11, 12.
626
00:52:17,402 --> 00:52:20,271
I did feel really vulnerable and young,
627
00:52:20,371 --> 00:52:23,408
because looking around me,
there wasn't that many kids of my age
628
00:52:23,508 --> 00:52:25,243
that were there at that point.
629
00:52:25,343 --> 00:52:27,345
But if you think about being squashed here.
630
00:52:27,445 --> 00:52:30,081
I remember my ribs just bursting,
631
00:52:30,181 --> 00:52:32,984
so I've probably not even
grown that much, really,
632
00:52:33,084 --> 00:52:35,787
because I was quite tall for my age then,
633
00:52:35,887 --> 00:52:39,090
so I've not probably grown that much
because it's still on my ribs.
634
00:52:39,190 --> 00:52:41,793
Yeah, it was great.
635
00:52:46,297 --> 00:52:50,401
That was the first time I felt like a jam fan,
being there with all these other jam fans,
636
00:52:50,501 --> 00:52:56,541
and it was great to be part of this gang,
all of a sudden, that was there.
637
00:52:56,641 --> 00:52:58,209
Everyone sang every word,
638
00:52:58,609 --> 00:53:01,012
and that was what was special about it.
639
00:53:01,112 --> 00:53:04,549
It wasn't just that they were there to
watch, they were there to take part.
640
00:53:04,649 --> 00:53:07,051
And I always think
the energy worked both ways.
641
00:53:23,301 --> 00:53:26,270
The jam meant everything to me at the time,
642
00:53:26,371 --> 00:53:31,409
and the only way to see live
was to come over to england.
643
00:53:31,509 --> 00:53:36,147
So, me and my friends, we were always
talking about we'd love to go to england,
644
00:53:36,247 --> 00:53:37,982
to see the real thing.
645
00:53:38,082 --> 00:53:41,919
And I wanted to learn English anyway.
646
00:53:42,019 --> 00:53:43,755
So, I was talking to my parents,
647
00:53:43,855 --> 00:53:48,960
if I could go over to england
just to study English for three months.
648
00:53:49,060 --> 00:53:54,265
And my parents agreed, "it's definitely
only for three months, that's fine."
649
00:53:54,365 --> 00:53:56,534
So, they paid for it for me.
650
00:53:56,667 --> 00:53:59,670
What I was thinking was to see the jam!
651
00:54:12,950 --> 00:54:15,887
I've seen many other bands before.
652
00:54:15,987 --> 00:54:18,890
But when I first saw the jam at rainbow,
653
00:54:18,990 --> 00:54:23,194
I just thought
the whole atmosphere was so different.
654
00:54:23,294 --> 00:54:25,863
I just wanted to see them more and more.
655
00:54:25,963 --> 00:54:28,733
But three months went really quick.
656
00:54:29,267 --> 00:54:33,171
And my study wasn't completed anyway.
657
00:54:34,105 --> 00:54:35,173
This is true.
658
00:54:35,273 --> 00:54:41,145
So, I extended visa for six months,
and then another six months.
659
00:54:42,313 --> 00:54:46,184
So, I'm still in London.
660
00:54:48,519 --> 00:54:49,954
After 30 years.
661
00:54:57,295 --> 00:54:59,697
To live in england because of the jam,
662
00:54:59,797 --> 00:55:03,701
it sounds very crazy,
but I don't regret it at all.
663
00:55:03,801 --> 00:55:07,104
And I do love this country and people.
664
00:55:07,205 --> 00:55:08,840
And I'm still here.
665
00:55:08,940 --> 00:55:12,109
I'm always going to be here,
and this is my home.
666
00:55:17,615 --> 00:55:22,954
Ian snowball.
Born in maidstone, Kent, england, 1970.
667
00:55:28,726 --> 00:55:33,030
I first became aware of the jam in 1980.
668
00:55:33,364 --> 00:55:39,804
In amongst the tension, and the creativity,
and the energy, sometimes the aggression.
669
00:55:39,904 --> 00:55:42,907
It's almost like the jam gave you
permission to be angry about things.
670
00:55:43,007 --> 00:55:46,010
I got interested in politics
671
00:55:46,110 --> 00:55:49,480
taking the lead
from what Paul was supporting,
672
00:55:49,580 --> 00:55:53,217
or what he was campaigning for at the time.
673
00:55:53,317 --> 00:55:57,755
It didn't necessarily stay like that
as the years went by.
674
00:55:57,855 --> 00:56:02,226
I was impressionable at that time,
but I'm happy with that.
675
00:56:02,326 --> 00:56:04,829
It was an education
676
00:56:04,929 --> 00:56:07,098
which I probably wouldn't have got
677
00:56:07,198 --> 00:56:10,835
from listening to a Duran Duran record.
678
00:56:19,277 --> 00:56:22,747
We were in the states
when going underground was released.
679
00:56:22,847 --> 00:56:26,517
Because we really thought that,
"it'll maybe chart somewhere
680
00:56:26,617 --> 00:56:28,719
"and then we'll finish the American tour.
681
00:56:28,819 --> 00:56:32,223
"We'll come home, and then maybe
it'll go up the charts a bit further.
682
00:56:32,323 --> 00:56:35,826
"And then maybe by the third week
it'll go to number one."
683
00:56:43,100 --> 00:56:48,806
We were in deepest south of the states
and going down like a lead balloon still.
684
00:56:48,906 --> 00:56:52,310
And John had been on the phone to the label
and said, "well, where is it?"
685
00:56:52,410 --> 00:56:53,854
And they said
it's gone straight in to number one,
686
00:56:53,878 --> 00:56:56,314
and it was just obviously amazing.
687
00:56:56,414 --> 00:56:59,150
And we thought,
"well, what are we doing here?"
688
00:56:59,717 --> 00:57:02,653
So, we just got on concorde and went home.
689
00:57:02,753 --> 00:57:06,057
Cancelled the last, I don't know,
two or three, four shows,
690
00:57:06,157 --> 00:57:07,692
whatever it was, in the states
691
00:57:07,792 --> 00:57:10,595
and literally just booked ourselves
on a flight and came straight back
692
00:57:10,695 --> 00:57:11,796
to do top of the pops.
693
00:57:18,102 --> 00:57:19,902
I was in two minds
when it went to number one.
694
00:57:19,937 --> 00:57:23,074
Obviously, we were all pleased,
but it also scared me.
695
00:57:23,174 --> 00:57:25,254
Because I thought,
"fuck, where do you go after that?
696
00:57:25,309 --> 00:57:28,179
"Where's beyond number one?"
697
00:57:28,279 --> 00:57:31,058
And I guess it's just you've got to have
another number one, and another one,
698
00:57:31,082 --> 00:57:32,350
and all that stuff.
699
00:57:32,450 --> 00:57:36,420
And I wasn't keen on that sort of pressure.
700
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:40,057
But of course, who would turn that down,
that sort of success.
701
00:57:40,157 --> 00:57:43,761
At least it was a song
that was saying something.
702
00:57:53,871 --> 00:57:58,643
Nine-year-olds like me were jumping around
to very, very political music.
703
00:57:58,743 --> 00:58:00,144
The music itself was political.
704
00:58:00,244 --> 00:58:04,248
Who was making it,
by its nature, was political.
705
00:58:04,348 --> 00:58:06,017
And the lyrics were overtly political.
706
00:58:06,117 --> 00:58:07,251
The greatest lines in it,
707
00:58:07,351 --> 00:58:11,155
"you'll see kidney machines
replaced by rockets and guns."
708
00:58:11,255 --> 00:58:16,060
And it's just, it's the same thing
going on now, really.
709
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:21,532
I've read that every time they fire a missile
in the middle east it costs us £850,000.
710
00:58:31,342 --> 00:58:33,944
There was a lot of concern
over a lot of these issues.
711
00:58:34,045 --> 00:58:36,647
It was always that dark
mood of nuclear war,
712
00:58:36,747 --> 00:58:39,083
and the cold war,
and all that sort of thing going on.
713
00:58:39,183 --> 00:58:41,152
And Paul picked up on that fact.
714
00:58:41,252 --> 00:58:44,188
Cnd for me, at the beginning,
was just a cool badge.
715
00:58:44,288 --> 00:58:46,808
You'd sort of seen it
on these volkswagens and things like that.
716
00:58:46,891 --> 00:58:50,461
And you weren't necessarily interested
in the news about it.
717
00:58:50,594 --> 00:58:54,265
But the fact that he was talking about it
and going on rallies and things like that.
718
00:58:54,532 --> 00:58:57,802
The cold war was just as neurotic
as it could get.
719
00:58:57,902 --> 00:59:00,838
It put more people in institutions
just for that threat.
720
00:59:00,938 --> 00:59:02,816
And I think everybody
was fighting their way through,
721
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:06,544
and Paul wellerjust had
a governance of the way.
722
00:59:06,644 --> 00:59:09,313
It was like, he always reminded me
of a resistance worker,
723
00:59:09,413 --> 00:59:11,649
and it gave you the sense
that you weren't on your own.
724
00:59:35,906 --> 00:59:39,643
Paul weller was labelled, and was,
a spokesman for a generation.
725
00:59:39,744 --> 00:59:42,146
He never really liked
that title, but he was.
726
00:59:42,246 --> 00:59:45,416
We'd rather listen to him than Maggie
Thatcher or something, simple as that.
727
00:59:45,516 --> 00:59:49,420
It was like, if he said something,
you'd take it on board.
728
00:59:49,987 --> 00:59:52,790
Yeah, I wasn't really comfortable
with any of that.
729
00:59:52,890 --> 00:59:56,460
I mean, I was a bit probably flattered,
ego-wise. Probably flattered at first,
730
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:58,896
but I didn't really like it.
731
01:00:01,098 --> 01:00:03,778
I don't think I was the right person
out out for that sort of thing.
732
01:00:03,868 --> 01:00:06,437
I wasn't intelligent enough
or articulate enough
733
01:00:06,537 --> 01:00:08,706
to be any spokesman for anyone,
I don't think, really.
734
01:00:08,806 --> 01:00:11,041
I was just writing these songs,
735
01:00:11,142 --> 01:00:13,043
which said more really, anyway, I think.
736
01:00:20,217 --> 01:00:21,762
When you saw the jam
or you listened to the jam,
737
01:00:21,786 --> 01:00:23,554
you were aware that
they were a three-piece.
738
01:00:23,654 --> 01:00:29,193
I mean, you couldn't divorce Bruce
foxton's bass playing from their songs.
739
01:00:29,260 --> 01:00:30,728
It was brilliant.
740
01:00:30,828 --> 01:00:33,697
And Rick's drumming.
741
01:00:33,798 --> 01:00:40,137
But I think it's fair to say that the focus,
certainly for me, for my friends, was on Paul.
742
01:00:40,237 --> 01:00:43,107
In terms of the band,
the jam being a three-piece,
743
01:00:43,207 --> 01:00:46,110
and how important
each of those members were,
744
01:00:46,210 --> 01:00:50,247
I don't know anybody that's ever thought
it was Paul weller's band.
745
01:00:50,347 --> 01:00:53,684
Bruce and Rick were
just as important to us.
746
01:00:53,784 --> 01:00:56,987
Each of them played
such an important part in making it.
747
01:00:57,087 --> 01:01:00,157
Yeah, Paul was the brains behind that,
if you like.
748
01:01:00,491 --> 01:01:04,662
But I think, in all of our hearts,
we always felt equally about all of them.
749
01:01:13,504 --> 01:01:17,007
Sound affects, I love. It sounds
to me like their most indie record.
750
01:01:17,107 --> 01:01:20,811
It sounds like their most student record,
for a band who weren't very student-y at all.
751
01:01:21,011 --> 01:01:23,314
But the sounds that were coming in on that
752
01:01:23,447 --> 01:01:28,552
didn't seem to be dictated by,
"does this sound '60s enough?"
753
01:01:28,652 --> 01:01:32,423
Sounds affects was very close
to how we saw ourselves.
754
01:01:32,523 --> 01:01:36,760
We'd stripped everything back
to a fairly minimum sort of sound.
755
01:01:36,961 --> 01:01:40,931
I preferred the sound on it
because it wasn't multi-tracked guitars
756
01:01:41,031 --> 01:01:43,200
and basses and stuff.
757
01:01:43,300 --> 01:01:45,202
It was a bit more sparse sounding.
758
01:02:07,625 --> 01:02:10,527
I think if they'd just
carried on playing in the city,
759
01:02:10,628 --> 01:02:13,197
and another version of in the city,
and so on, and so on,
760
01:02:13,297 --> 01:02:14,632
it wouldn't have been the same.
761
01:02:14,732 --> 01:02:15,866
I liked the new stuff
762
01:02:15,966 --> 01:02:18,612
and I didn't want them just to play
the same thing over and over again,
763
01:02:18,636 --> 01:02:19,870
which so many bands do.
764
01:02:32,750 --> 01:02:36,553
Mark Baxter. Born London, england, 1962.
765
01:02:38,822 --> 01:02:40,858
We were a footballer community, really.
766
01:02:40,958 --> 01:02:44,228
So, music was around, but you didn't really
actually follow it religiously.
767
01:02:44,328 --> 01:02:48,132
I think the jam were basically
the first band to really do that for me.
768
01:02:48,232 --> 01:02:52,002
Hearing Paul, the way he sounded,
the influence he had was massive on me.
769
01:02:52,102 --> 01:02:56,073
He almost gave me an education
I didn't get at school.
770
01:02:56,173 --> 01:02:59,419
I sort of thought, "maybe there's other
things you can be doing because he's done it."
771
01:02:59,443 --> 01:03:02,346
He's obviously a working...
Or he sounded like, a working class guy.
772
01:03:02,446 --> 01:03:04,915
And he looked a bit chippy, and a bit edgy.
773
01:03:05,015 --> 01:03:07,952
And I thought how I'm like that,
we're all like that where I'm from.
774
01:03:08,052 --> 01:03:10,120
So, if he can do it, why can't we do,
775
01:03:10,220 --> 01:03:12,198
not necessarily music,
but something else you'd be doing?
776
01:03:12,222 --> 01:03:14,558
But I honestly didn't have a clue
where to start.
777
01:03:21,999 --> 01:03:24,535
When you look deeper,
the lyrics that Paul would come out with
778
01:03:24,635 --> 01:03:26,379
were definitely an influence
on what I'm doing,
779
01:03:26,403 --> 01:03:29,707
the writing I'm doing now,
and the book, the mumper,
780
01:03:29,807 --> 01:03:31,508
which did really well.
781
01:03:31,608 --> 01:03:35,980
Without Paul's influence as a young man,
I wouldn't have done that book.
782
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:38,248
There's no way
I would have even attempted it.
783
01:03:38,349 --> 01:03:43,520
Because just the work they put out,
and the songs they wrote about,
784
01:03:43,620 --> 01:03:46,890
and the situations they were describing
in those songs,
785
01:03:46,991 --> 01:03:48,892
I identify very strongly with that.
786
01:03:49,426 --> 01:03:54,898
And when the opportunity come along
to do writing, to be a writer, I took it.
787
01:03:54,999 --> 01:03:58,535
And without a doubt, without that band,
without Paul's influences,
788
01:03:58,635 --> 01:04:00,435
I wouldn't have been doing
what I'm doing now.
789
01:04:05,676 --> 01:04:08,946
Paul weller electrified people's vocations.
790
01:04:09,046 --> 01:04:12,950
And I think there are people
who are generous with intelligence,
791
01:04:13,050 --> 01:04:16,020
and people who use it as a weapon,
and he just seemed to share it.
792
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:19,089
And that made me trust him as a role model.
793
01:04:19,189 --> 01:04:21,658
What Paul was singing about was, really,
794
01:04:21,759 --> 01:04:24,361
"you don't have to be born
with a silver spoon in your mouth.
795
01:04:24,461 --> 01:04:26,196
"You can have big ideas."
796
01:04:26,296 --> 01:04:29,733
So, for a humble girl from Wembley
797
01:04:31,502 --> 01:04:37,174
to end up in New York for 12 years,
working in advertising,
798
01:04:37,341 --> 01:04:42,846
I guess, yeah. I mean, I guess I had some
kind of belief in myself from a young age.
799
01:04:42,946 --> 01:04:44,715
And maybe I got some of that from them.
800
01:04:49,319 --> 01:04:51,188
I'd always been interested in photography.
801
01:04:51,288 --> 01:04:53,390
My father bought my first camera
when I was 18,
802
01:04:53,490 --> 01:04:58,162
and then my love of music,
it seemed natural to combine the two.
803
01:04:58,262 --> 01:05:00,564
At the time, music videos
were just sort of starting out,
804
01:05:00,664 --> 01:05:04,835
so I wanted to try taking a picture
from the TV, just to see if it worked.
805
01:05:04,935 --> 01:05:07,771
And this was during the start! Video,
during Paul's solo.
806
01:05:07,871 --> 01:05:09,591
I think this is before we had a video even,
807
01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:12,976
so you'd have to just take the shots
while it was live on TV,
808
01:05:13,077 --> 01:05:15,546
so it wasn't a case of playing it back
and trying again.
809
01:05:15,646 --> 01:05:19,249
It was just you'd set up to watch the TV
and have your camera on the tripod as well
810
01:05:19,349 --> 01:05:21,218
at the same time, which is crazy.
811
01:05:28,592 --> 01:05:30,603
And so, I actually
wrote in to Paul to the fan club,
812
01:05:30,627 --> 01:05:32,596
just for them to see
what I'd taken, really.
813
01:05:33,030 --> 01:05:34,070
And I couldn't believe it.
814
01:05:34,164 --> 01:05:36,009
And Paul wrote back
and said he really liked the pictures,
815
01:05:36,033 --> 01:05:38,068
and he especially liked the ones
taken off the TV.
816
01:05:39,203 --> 01:05:42,306
"Dear Derek, hopefully you will have
received your photos back signed.
817
01:05:42,406 --> 01:05:44,041
"Sorry about the delay.
818
01:05:44,141 --> 01:05:46,252
"Anyway, I just wanted to add
that I thought they were great,
819
01:05:46,276 --> 01:05:48,312
"I especially like the
ones taken off the TV.
820
01:05:48,412 --> 01:05:51,849
"Fantastic colour. All
the best, Paul weller."
821
01:05:52,082 --> 01:05:54,218
The band, at the time,
were recording the next single,
822
01:05:54,318 --> 01:05:55,662
which was going to be absolute beginners,
823
01:05:55,686 --> 01:06:00,090
and the b side, tales from the riverbank,
so I was invited to go along to meet them.
824
01:06:00,190 --> 01:06:04,161
And we were talking about what Paul
wanted to do for shots for the new single,
825
01:06:04,261 --> 01:06:07,164
and he had the idea
of shooting in chiswick house.
826
01:06:07,264 --> 01:06:11,268
And what I didn't know at the time
was that the Beatles had shot,
827
01:06:11,368 --> 01:06:13,270
I think it was paperback writer and rain,
828
01:06:13,370 --> 01:06:18,509
they'd shot two of their videos
in chiswick park.
829
01:06:18,909 --> 01:06:21,512
And knowing that Paul,
being a massive Beatles fan,
830
01:06:21,945 --> 01:06:23,981
it was always one of my questions
to ask Paul,
831
01:06:24,081 --> 01:06:27,417
did he know at the time
that the Beatles had shot there.
832
01:06:40,130 --> 01:06:44,168
Any opportunity or excuse to go anywhere
they've been, I would do so.
833
01:06:44,268 --> 01:06:46,904
So, the fabs done their promo
films down there.
834
01:06:47,004 --> 01:06:51,542
So, yeah, I just wanted
to... yeah, why not?
835
01:06:51,975 --> 01:06:54,678
This was taken right at the end of the day
of the session.
836
01:06:54,778 --> 01:06:57,714
We put the camera on a tripod,
and put it on self-timer.
837
01:06:57,814 --> 01:07:00,226
And that was a lovely, lovely memento
at the end of the day for me,
838
01:07:00,250 --> 01:07:02,452
from my first-ever
professional photo session.
839
01:07:12,196 --> 01:07:14,598
I can't imagine another band
doing what they did,
840
01:07:14,698 --> 01:07:17,701
to pick some guy out of the fan club,
a novice in every way,
841
01:07:17,801 --> 01:07:19,336
and it did change my life.
842
01:07:19,736 --> 01:07:21,872
One, two.
843
01:07:21,972 --> 01:07:25,175
The jam was like a family.
I saw the jam well over 50 times.
844
01:07:25,275 --> 01:07:29,546
The band had come down and signed things.
They recognised faces and they went,
845
01:07:29,646 --> 01:07:33,684
"yeah, I haven't seen you since utrecht."
Or something like that.
846
01:07:33,784 --> 01:07:37,120
You don't know what that means to a
16-year-old kid who's looking for an identity.
847
01:07:37,354 --> 01:07:39,966
It was great, because they looked
after you. That was the difference.
848
01:07:39,990 --> 01:07:41,158
They weren't standoffish.
849
01:07:41,258 --> 01:07:44,394
They'd let the kids in, they'd sign
the autographs, they'd talk to them.
850
01:07:44,494 --> 01:07:47,197
They just treated them
like they wanted to be treated.
851
01:07:47,297 --> 01:07:49,866
It worked really well.
It was always a two-way thing.
852
01:07:53,403 --> 01:07:56,974
Letting us in to sound checks, I mean,
their jam sound checks were legendary.
853
01:07:57,074 --> 01:07:59,743
Sometimes there'd be more people
at jam sound checks
854
01:07:59,843 --> 01:08:01,445
than there would be other bands' gigs.
855
01:08:01,545 --> 01:08:06,683
Stuff like sound checks,
we didn't want to have that barrier there,
856
01:08:06,817 --> 01:08:09,219
because a lot of those
were unable to get a ticket,
857
01:08:09,586 --> 01:08:12,756
and/or were too young
to actually come and see the show,
858
01:08:12,856 --> 01:08:14,558
but they've hung around outside.
859
01:08:14,658 --> 01:08:18,762
And you just think, "well, why not come in?
Come in out of the cold," for a start.
860
01:08:18,862 --> 01:08:22,633
And also, "we appreciate your support."
861
01:08:24,935 --> 01:08:26,236
Was that enough?
862
01:08:26,336 --> 01:08:28,872
It was just great
to sort of get to know people.
863
01:08:28,972 --> 01:08:31,842
And we didn't really see
that there was any real barrier
864
01:08:31,942 --> 01:08:34,411
between us and our fans, really.
865
01:08:34,511 --> 01:08:37,314
Well, I don't think we really liked
that "us and them" mentality,
866
01:08:37,414 --> 01:08:41,251
where rock gods are up here,
and the audience are down there,
867
01:08:41,351 --> 01:08:43,587
and they never meet. And it's just...
868
01:08:43,687 --> 01:08:45,722
That didn't really fit in with us at all.
869
01:08:45,822 --> 01:08:51,128
I always thought, "I wonder if that ever made
any difference at all, doing all that stuff."
870
01:08:52,329 --> 01:08:56,066
But it did, I think, because I meet people,
and I've met people over the years,
871
01:08:56,166 --> 01:08:59,236
and still meet people who said,
"yeah, we spoke to you guys,
872
01:08:59,336 --> 01:09:02,906
"you let us back in the dressing room
and we spoke to you."
873
01:09:03,006 --> 01:09:06,410
Or, "we went to the sound check,
your old man let us in."
874
01:09:06,510 --> 01:09:09,579
So, I think it did make a difference
in a small way.
875
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,449
I think people liked it
and appreciated it as well.
876
01:09:29,132 --> 01:09:33,470
David pottinger.
Born middlesborough, england, 1994.
877
01:09:36,073 --> 01:09:39,109
I first became aware of the jam
when I was around 11.
878
01:09:39,209 --> 01:09:41,411
I was bought an iPod for Christmas
879
01:09:41,511 --> 01:09:44,581
and my dad had pre-loaded
absolute beginners onto it.
880
01:09:44,681 --> 01:09:51,655
That track, that Christmas day, 2006, I
mean, it sort of changed everything, really.
881
01:09:58,095 --> 01:09:59,863
I went and bought all the studio albums.
882
01:09:59,963 --> 01:10:02,003
I mean, my dad had them,
but they were all on vinyl.
883
01:10:02,099 --> 01:10:03,967
I needed access to them quickly,
884
01:10:04,067 --> 01:10:06,970
and that iPod, for about
the first four months of its life,
885
01:10:07,070 --> 01:10:08,605
there was nothing but the jam on it.
886
01:10:08,705 --> 01:10:11,475
It was just like a jam pod
or whatever you want to call it.
887
01:10:20,884 --> 01:10:24,621
I decided to start a blog
around September 2013.
888
01:10:24,721 --> 01:10:27,090
It was sort of just done on a whim
to see what happened.
889
01:10:27,190 --> 01:10:31,228
And I put my love of writing
and modernism together.
890
01:10:31,328 --> 01:10:36,767
Graham, who's like 50% of the blog,
he put his love of sort of photography
891
01:10:36,867 --> 01:10:39,479
and web design together, and we
just wanted to see where it would go,
892
01:10:39,503 --> 01:10:41,405
who we could meet, what we could do.
893
01:10:41,505 --> 01:10:43,440
We spread our own sort of modernist gospel
894
01:10:43,540 --> 01:10:46,476
and just see what happens with it, really.
895
01:10:46,576 --> 01:10:50,080
Number one mod at the moment,
it's got to be weller, hasn't it?
896
01:10:50,180 --> 01:10:52,449
To speak to someone like weller
would be huge.
897
01:10:52,549 --> 01:10:56,686
I mean, it'd give you
that sense of achievement,
898
01:10:56,787 --> 01:10:59,589
I suppose, that you've reached
the top with your blog.
899
01:11:13,303 --> 01:11:15,772
- Yeah. Not too formal.
- Yeah, just whatever you wanna do.
900
01:11:15,872 --> 01:11:18,208
All right, well, yeah.
901
01:11:21,344 --> 01:11:23,156
- How are you doing, Paul? I'm Dave.
- Yes, mate, all right.
902
01:11:23,180 --> 01:11:24,257
- Good to see you, man.
- It's proper.
903
01:11:24,281 --> 01:11:27,551
Yeah, I run move on up blog,
it's an online modernist-inspired blog,
904
01:11:27,651 --> 01:11:28,652
- so, yeah.
- I know.
905
01:11:28,752 --> 01:11:30,897
It's a pleasure to be doing this interview,
looking fonnard to it.
906
01:11:30,921 --> 01:11:32,022
- Nice one, mate.
- Sweet.
907
01:11:32,122 --> 01:11:33,833
Start off, obviously,
the jam had massive influence
908
01:11:33,857 --> 01:11:35,759
to myself, my favourite band of all time.
909
01:11:36,026 --> 01:11:38,462
So, obviously, the jam,
how did the name come about?
910
01:11:38,728 --> 01:11:40,807
It was something about
you always jamming, weren't you,
911
01:11:40,831 --> 01:11:41,874
you and the lads, and that,
912
01:11:41,898 --> 01:11:43,176
- and it was sort of...
- Yeah, I don't know
913
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:45,368
if it came from that or not. I mean,
914
01:11:45,469 --> 01:11:47,671
it was there right from early days anyway,
915
01:11:47,771 --> 01:11:51,007
- like from '72, '73 or something like that.
- Yeah.
916
01:11:51,408 --> 01:11:53,519
So, it was kind of, we always
had that name. But I don't know.
917
01:11:53,543 --> 01:11:55,078
I think my sister, I think.
918
01:11:55,178 --> 01:11:58,849
It's sort of well documented, isn't it,
that you're quite into poetry and stuff?
919
01:11:59,182 --> 01:12:01,918
You used a shelley poem, didn't you,
on sound affects?
920
01:12:02,018 --> 01:12:04,454
- Yeah.
- So, why that one then?
921
01:12:04,554 --> 01:12:06,032
It's called the mask of anarchy, right?
922
01:12:06,056 --> 01:12:09,125
And we just sort of used, like,
two or three verses from it, anyway.
923
01:12:09,626 --> 01:12:13,029
But basically, the poem is
a revolutionary poem and it's saying,
924
01:12:13,964 --> 01:12:17,133
"we are many, they are few."
925
01:12:17,234 --> 01:12:19,836
And basically, we're sort of trying
to get people to rise up
926
01:12:19,936 --> 01:12:23,273
against the ruling classes, really.
927
01:12:23,373 --> 01:12:25,809
But I thought it was, yeah,
definitely relevant for the time.
928
01:12:25,909 --> 01:12:27,978
This was kind of early days of thatcherism,
929
01:12:28,078 --> 01:12:31,882
and an austerity for the working classes
anyway in england, I think.
930
01:12:31,982 --> 01:12:34,985
I went and bought
a book on poetry that shelley...
931
01:12:35,085 --> 01:12:38,321
Because of that quote
on the back of the album cover.
932
01:12:38,421 --> 01:12:40,924
And that is crazy when you think now.
933
01:12:41,024 --> 01:12:43,824
I didn't know who he was or
what he was even... I didn't understand it.
934
01:12:43,894 --> 01:12:45,137
But I still went and bought the book,
935
01:12:45,161 --> 01:12:47,273
because I thought I've got to
find out what it is about.
936
01:12:47,297 --> 01:12:50,333
Why is he using that on an album? Why?
937
01:12:50,433 --> 01:12:53,537
Because I think, in a way,
he was just tipping everybody off.
938
01:12:54,204 --> 01:12:59,543
I mean, I went to an all-boys comprehensive
in the early to mid '80s.
939
01:12:59,643 --> 01:13:01,945
Boys didn't go around reading poetry.
940
01:13:02,045 --> 01:13:04,648
And they certainly didn't go around
writing poetry.
941
01:13:04,748 --> 01:13:08,852
But then you had someone like Paul weller,
who was saying,
942
01:13:08,952 --> 01:13:12,589
"I do. And I read this, and I write that."
943
01:13:12,656 --> 01:13:15,258
And I like that.
944
01:13:25,101 --> 01:13:29,973
Steve cradock. Born
solihull, england, 1969.
945
01:13:33,009 --> 01:13:35,812
I remember seeing them on top of the pops
doing town called malice.
946
01:13:35,912 --> 01:13:39,482
I'd have been 11 years old,
and then hooked from then on, really.
947
01:13:39,583 --> 01:13:41,785
That was the first sort of
serious single I bought.
948
01:13:41,885 --> 01:13:44,187
I think it was that tune
that really got me into it.
949
01:13:44,287 --> 01:13:48,692
Just the power of the sound of it
was just a really fast, exciting tune.
950
01:13:48,792 --> 01:13:50,436
Dancing to it at the youth club. You know?
951
01:13:50,460 --> 01:13:53,663
It was kind of the best song
of that year, I think.
952
01:14:00,103 --> 01:14:01,671
It was just of that time, really.
953
01:14:01,771 --> 01:14:04,741
You could see the economic effects
of thatcherism.
954
01:14:04,841 --> 01:14:06,943
We'd go up north and it was worse up there,
955
01:14:07,043 --> 01:14:08,821
you'd see all these fucking places
that had shut down.
956
01:14:08,845 --> 01:14:11,481
And you talked to kids
and there were just no prospects.
957
01:14:11,581 --> 01:14:14,351
It was a very desolate
time, I thought, really.
958
01:14:14,451 --> 01:14:17,253
But I suppose
I tried to turn it 'round to be positive.
959
01:14:27,764 --> 01:14:29,032
Everybody was stuck.
960
01:14:29,132 --> 01:14:32,569
But everybody needed a key
or a kick to get out,
961
01:14:32,669 --> 01:14:34,404
and stop dreaming of a quiet life.
962
01:14:34,504 --> 01:14:38,942
I think it was just a clarion call
for everybody, just it was carpe diem.
963
01:14:40,276 --> 01:14:41,778
Yeah, and I love that song
964
01:14:41,878 --> 01:14:45,982
because it threw me into
a massive fit of really good writing.
965
01:14:46,082 --> 01:14:49,319
And actually, that period shaped my career.
966
01:15:06,569 --> 01:15:09,372
That's not a lyric that you find very often
in number one records.
967
01:15:09,472 --> 01:15:13,243
Just the way it scans,
and just the way a lot of it
968
01:15:13,343 --> 01:15:17,847
unapologetically doesn't scan or rhyme
particularly, like an easy pop song.
969
01:15:17,947 --> 01:15:21,484
And yet it's set to the most
commercial beat of the 20th century.
970
01:15:21,584 --> 01:15:24,754
Like, like if you're talking about motown,
there's nothing poppier than that.
971
01:16:00,690 --> 01:16:03,560
It was also probably
our most commercial song.
972
01:16:03,660 --> 01:16:07,864
We sort of stepped outside of
just jam fans at that point.
973
01:16:07,964 --> 01:16:10,166
I think that song transcended all of that,
974
01:16:10,266 --> 01:16:12,836
and I think it got through
to a lot more people.
975
01:16:23,747 --> 01:16:25,081
By the time the gift came out,
976
01:16:25,181 --> 01:16:28,585
every song was going to number one
or top three or whatever.
977
01:16:28,685 --> 01:16:31,387
It was almost like
everyone had discovered the jam,
978
01:16:31,488 --> 01:16:35,992
and they were part of mainstream,
versus earlier,
979
01:16:36,092 --> 01:16:39,362
when I felt that they were still...
980
01:16:39,462 --> 01:16:43,500
A small group of people had discovered
them, they were still our secret.
981
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:46,970
So, I have bittersweet
memories of the gift,
982
01:16:47,070 --> 01:16:50,840
and that time around '82.
983
01:17:04,988 --> 01:17:08,525
I went for another big, heavy rebirth
around that time, really,
984
01:17:08,625 --> 01:17:10,527
of listening to soul music.
985
01:17:10,627 --> 01:17:13,797
I suppose that influence
is in a lot of the songs on the gift.
986
01:17:13,897 --> 01:17:15,708
And precious, yeah,
kind of came out of that, really,
987
01:17:15,732 --> 01:17:18,902
and just getting immersed again into
black music, really.
988
01:17:19,002 --> 01:17:20,303
Some fans liked it,
989
01:17:20,403 --> 01:17:22,915
but at the time there was a bit of
a division. There was a bit of like...
990
01:17:22,939 --> 01:17:25,308
Because I remember
us meeting some fans in the street
991
01:17:25,408 --> 01:17:27,777
who were saying
they thought it sounded a bit jazz funk.
992
01:17:37,053 --> 01:17:39,656
Paul weller was always trying
to move them fonnard creatively,
993
01:17:39,756 --> 01:17:41,558
which is a very mod thing to do.
994
01:17:41,658 --> 01:17:43,927
I think 13-, 14-year-old
kids wearing parkas,
995
01:17:44,027 --> 01:17:46,262
walking down the street in 1982,
996
01:17:46,362 --> 01:17:49,966
didn't want the gift probably, because it's
a little bit difficult, didn't want the soul.
997
01:17:50,066 --> 01:17:52,502
They wanted in the city
and when you're young.
998
01:17:52,602 --> 01:17:54,804
And the fact that he'd moved on, you know,
999
01:17:54,904 --> 01:17:58,675
I think his original fans
kind of moved on with him.
1000
01:17:58,908 --> 01:18:02,312
The gift is their sort of last gasp.
1001
01:18:02,378 --> 01:18:03,580
I love it,
1002
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:07,083
because sound-wise, you get a clue
as to where he is going next,
1003
01:18:07,183 --> 01:18:08,852
with the more sort of overt soul thing.
1004
01:18:09,986 --> 01:18:11,321
This one is called ghosts.
1005
01:18:20,230 --> 01:18:24,033
By that time, right, by '82,
I'd been in the band for 10 years,
1006
01:18:24,133 --> 01:18:27,570
from the time me and brookesy
first started, right, in '72.
1007
01:18:27,670 --> 01:18:29,906
And as great as it was,
1008
01:18:30,006 --> 01:18:33,109
it was full on, it was
just tour, record tour.
1009
01:18:33,209 --> 01:18:35,612
It was very much like that.
1010
01:18:55,598 --> 01:18:58,601
Ijustsensed, I suppose,
that Paul wanted a break,
1011
01:18:58,701 --> 01:19:00,937
or maybe we should all take a break.
1012
01:19:01,037 --> 01:19:06,643
But I didn't see
that the end of the band is nigh.
1013
01:19:19,422 --> 01:19:21,066
No, I don't think there
was ever any feeling
1014
01:19:21,090 --> 01:19:23,010
that we were reaching
the end of the line at all,
1015
01:19:23,092 --> 01:19:25,762
not by any stretch of the imagination.
1016
01:19:25,862 --> 01:19:27,997
I was only 24.
1017
01:19:28,097 --> 01:19:30,109
I wanted to see
what other kind of music I could make.
1018
01:19:30,133 --> 01:19:32,302
I wanted to see who I was, who I could be.
1019
01:19:40,743 --> 01:19:42,946
Paul sat us all around the studio table,
1020
01:19:43,046 --> 01:19:47,850
and John said to us,
"Paul's got something to say."
1021
01:19:47,951 --> 01:19:49,719
"What's this?" And it was...
1022
01:19:49,819 --> 01:19:52,739
So, it was a bit of a shock when he said
that he wanted to leave the band.
1023
01:19:52,789 --> 01:19:56,025
It was a bit like
jaw dropping down to the ground.
1024
01:19:56,125 --> 01:19:59,262
You could have heard a pin drop.
1025
01:19:59,362 --> 01:20:02,832
It was like, "okay."
1026
01:20:02,932 --> 01:20:07,770
So, almost immediately go
into sort of shock mode, really.
1027
01:20:24,988 --> 01:20:27,123
There was no talking Paul 'round.
1028
01:20:27,223 --> 01:20:29,392
It was a big decision
for him to make, obviously.
1029
01:20:29,492 --> 01:20:33,529
When you got the gift and malice,
and they are riding high in the charts,
1030
01:20:33,629 --> 01:20:36,733
and it's all gone so swimmingly well,
1031
01:20:36,833 --> 01:20:39,502
and it is everything you've aimed for,
and you're there,
1032
01:20:39,602 --> 01:20:42,872
you're at the pinnacle. You know?
1033
01:20:42,972 --> 01:20:44,574
It was hard, it was hard.
1034
01:20:44,907 --> 01:20:47,443
Like anything, like if
you leave your missus.
1035
01:20:47,543 --> 01:20:50,023
Like, "this ain't working any more,
I've gotta fuck off, babe."
1036
01:20:50,079 --> 01:20:52,015
And it's tough, isn't it?
1037
01:21:12,502 --> 01:21:16,406
We tried very much to keep it a secret,
until the last tour.
1038
01:21:16,539 --> 01:21:18,608
But it became a secret
that was impossible to keep.
1039
01:21:18,708 --> 01:21:20,276
The news had gone out already.
1040
01:21:20,376 --> 01:21:23,780
And there were some very tearful eyes
during those last shows.
1041
01:21:24,013 --> 01:21:27,016
I was crying and crying for three days,
I still remember.
1042
01:21:27,183 --> 01:21:29,318
It was almost like
you'd lost a member of your family.
1043
01:21:29,452 --> 01:21:30,612
It was, like, just disbelief.
1044
01:21:30,853 --> 01:21:33,756
We were destroyed. I mean,
1045
01:21:34,090 --> 01:21:38,261
it's like such a big part of your life
is coming to an end.
1046
01:21:38,628 --> 01:21:40,672
You don't believe it at first.
The same as anything, isn't it?
1047
01:21:40,696 --> 01:21:42,565
You don't think that way.
1048
01:21:42,665 --> 01:21:45,635
Just simply the bitterest pill
I ever had to swallow.
1049
01:21:45,735 --> 01:21:47,837
It was devastating.
1050
01:22:01,217 --> 01:22:04,687
We'd come out after the show
and anybody wanted anything signed
1051
01:22:04,787 --> 01:22:06,789
or photo or whatever.
1052
01:22:06,889 --> 01:22:10,126
And of course, you've got
the whole of the audience,
1053
01:22:10,226 --> 01:22:14,363
saying, "why are you splitting up?
What a show tonight," et cetera.
1054
01:22:14,464 --> 01:22:16,632
And I just kind of said,
"well, I don't know, really,
1055
01:22:16,732 --> 01:22:20,636
"I don't know why we are,
but we are, and that's it."
1056
01:22:22,038 --> 01:22:25,608
I think we've done all we can do
as the three of us.
1057
01:22:25,708 --> 01:22:27,186
And I think it's a good time to finish it.
1058
01:22:27,210 --> 01:22:31,347
I don't want to drag it on and go on
for, like, the next 20 years doing it.
1059
01:22:31,447 --> 01:22:32,849
Become nothing, mean nothing.
1060
01:22:32,949 --> 01:22:35,685
End up like all the rest of the groups.
1061
01:22:35,785 --> 01:22:36,929
I want this to count for something.
1062
01:22:36,953 --> 01:22:40,233
I want everything I've done over the last
five or six years to count for something.
1063
01:22:50,766 --> 01:22:53,402
As far as I was concerned,
I had thrown my all into this.
1064
01:22:53,503 --> 01:22:57,006
Do you know what I mean?
I didn't have a backup career.
1065
01:22:57,106 --> 01:23:01,511
I couldn't go back to being a brain surgeon
or anything like that.
1066
01:23:01,611 --> 01:23:04,947
And, you know...
1067
01:23:05,047 --> 01:23:07,550
I don't know what to say, really, about it.
1068
01:23:07,650 --> 01:23:10,686
I mean, you just have to accept it
1069
01:23:10,786 --> 01:23:13,422
because that's the way
that he wanted to do it.
1070
01:23:15,925 --> 01:23:18,694
After the last show, I think
we probably just got splendidly drunk,
1071
01:23:18,794 --> 01:23:23,032
and even worse then because
you wake up in the morning after
1072
01:23:23,132 --> 01:23:27,737
with a cracking hangover, and no band.
1073
01:23:28,070 --> 01:23:30,773
It was just, yeah, it was horrible.
1074
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:31,841
Horrible.
1075
01:23:47,323 --> 01:23:50,760
I don't know, maybe Paul had
the style council in mind at that stage,
1076
01:23:50,860 --> 01:23:52,795
I am honestly not sure.
1077
01:23:52,929 --> 01:23:56,098
I wanted to play with other musicians,
and to see what I was capable of,
1078
01:23:56,399 --> 01:23:59,769
and learn other things, and it wouldn't have
happened if we'd stayed together anyway.
1079
01:24:23,459 --> 01:24:26,862
I am very happy with what I am doing.
You know?
1080
01:24:26,963 --> 01:24:30,066
From the jam, it's got bigger and bigger
over the last few years.
1081
01:24:30,166 --> 01:24:32,034
It's a testament to those great songs.
1082
01:24:32,134 --> 01:24:34,337
There's just no getting away from it.
They're great.
1083
01:24:34,437 --> 01:24:36,906
They are memorable,
people still want to hear them.
1084
01:24:45,848 --> 01:24:49,352
My brother took me
to my first jam gig in 1977,
1085
01:24:49,452 --> 01:24:51,087
Portsmouth, locarno,
1086
01:24:51,754 --> 01:24:54,890
and I was blown away from the word "go."
1087
01:24:55,157 --> 01:24:57,727
And it's ironic, but he was
also our last gig as well, in '82.
1088
01:24:57,827 --> 01:24:59,495
- In Brighton.
- Yeah, I was.
1089
01:24:59,595 --> 01:25:03,032
And from there, he's now
headlining, front-lining the band.
1090
01:25:10,773 --> 01:25:14,377
You know, I think we're all kind of
pretty happy with our lives now.
1091
01:25:14,477 --> 01:25:18,014
Rick's doing his thing,
he's got a book coming out.
1092
01:25:19,015 --> 01:25:21,951
The book came about, really,
I started writing odd things down.
1093
01:25:22,051 --> 01:25:23,986
Little stories, anecdotal things.
1094
01:25:24,086 --> 01:25:28,391
And when I bumped into snowy, he helped
me really pull it together, properly.
1095
01:25:28,624 --> 01:25:31,327
I've not done ghostwriting before.
1096
01:25:31,494 --> 01:25:32,495
That is so the jam.
1097
01:25:32,595 --> 01:25:36,499
You know, it's almost like letting
the people into sound checks,
1098
01:25:36,599 --> 01:25:40,836
that kind of, know them and ask
so you can be part of this.
1099
01:25:50,279 --> 01:25:53,382
Loads of fans of the jam
ended up playing in bands, didn't they?
1100
01:25:53,482 --> 01:25:55,851
Because you could learn
how to play the songs,
1101
01:25:56,085 --> 01:25:58,954
I've just played on Paul's,
I think it's his 12th solo album,
1102
01:26:00,489 --> 01:26:03,292
which I think I have
played on 11 of them 12.
1103
01:26:03,392 --> 01:26:05,895
And still in his band after 21 years.
1104
01:26:22,912 --> 01:26:25,748
And I think, more than
ever, the older I get,
1105
01:26:25,848 --> 01:26:28,818
the more I just want to see
where else I can go with it all, really,
1106
01:26:28,918 --> 01:26:30,853
try and push it as far as I possibly can.
1107
01:26:30,953 --> 01:26:33,856
And I don't know where it will end up
or what will happen with it.
1108
01:26:34,523 --> 01:26:36,859
But I think it's my job to do that.
1109
01:26:47,870 --> 01:26:51,941
I came up with the idea of
a proper exhibition about 2010.
1110
01:26:52,041 --> 01:26:56,412
So, it's taken five years to get to
the stage of doing that exhibition.
1111
01:26:56,846 --> 01:27:00,416
Thirty-three years on,
the legacy still means so much to people.
1112
01:27:00,516 --> 01:27:03,152
And everything they ever said,
every word they spoke, sang,
1113
01:27:03,686 --> 01:27:05,755
just made sense to all of us, it clicked.
1114
01:27:05,988 --> 01:27:08,924
So, that's why it stayed with us
because it's a lifelong thing.
1115
01:27:09,024 --> 01:27:12,228
It wasn't just a "wham, bang,
thank you, ma'am" and gone.
1116
01:27:12,828 --> 01:27:15,264
It's something that I would never have ever
thought of doing
1117
01:27:15,364 --> 01:27:16,844
if den hadn't come up with that idea.
1118
01:27:18,067 --> 01:27:20,136
We would never have
got our archive out, ever.
1119
01:27:27,076 --> 01:27:31,213
The jam did speak for a generation,
and I think that it does live on.
1120
01:27:31,313 --> 01:27:34,116
They have assumed a legendary position
in British culture,
1121
01:27:34,216 --> 01:27:36,085
because they split at their peak.
1122
01:27:36,185 --> 01:27:39,054
The band I'm most likely to
see in the world now, tomorrow,
1123
01:27:39,155 --> 01:27:42,491
is the jam, still, you know,
and I am 51 years old now.
1124
01:27:42,691 --> 01:27:45,694
Absolutely, categorically, fucking no.
1125
01:27:45,795 --> 01:27:48,931
I don't know whether it would be
the wisest thing to do, in actual fact.
1126
01:27:49,064 --> 01:27:51,434
To me, it would be against everything
we ever stood for.
1127
01:27:51,534 --> 01:27:53,102
There's too much time,
1128
01:27:53,202 --> 01:27:55,042
and too much water, you know,
under the bridge,
1129
01:27:55,137 --> 01:27:57,306
and it's best probably left there.
1130
01:28:11,454 --> 01:28:12,922
We stopped at the right time.
1131
01:28:13,022 --> 01:28:15,758
The music's gone on.
The music has legs and it's got longevity
1132
01:28:15,858 --> 01:28:19,061
and the young kids get into it.
1133
01:28:19,161 --> 01:28:22,121
And hopefully, in years to come,
after we're all fucking brown bread, mate,
1134
01:28:22,198 --> 01:28:26,001
people will still be discovering it.
1135
01:28:26,101 --> 01:28:29,505
And good enough.
That's a good place to leave it, isn't it?
1136
01:29:32,701 --> 01:29:34,846
Who was your favourite in the band?
Come on, be honest.
1137
01:29:34,870 --> 01:29:38,240
- John.
- Right. There you go.
1138
01:29:38,340 --> 01:29:40,543
That's just fucking awesome, mate.
100107
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