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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:31,330 --> 00:00:33,640 What they always say is, "Be yourself." 2 00:00:36,370 --> 00:00:38,200 A baffling injunction. 3 00:00:40,130 --> 00:00:43,160 What they actually mean is, "Imitate yourself." 4 00:00:49,050 --> 00:00:51,640 I'm talking a bit like a ventriloquist's dummy 5 00:00:51,730 --> 00:00:53,840 because I'm frightened if I move my lips, 6 00:00:53,930 --> 00:00:56,120 he might get the mouth wrong. 7 00:00:58,170 --> 00:01:02,680 Like those terrible photographs when they catch you with your eyes closed. 8 00:01:18,570 --> 00:01:21,760 Tom Wood, who's painting this portrait, 9 00:01:21,850 --> 00:01:25,280 has been commissioned by the National Portrait Gallery, 10 00:01:25,370 --> 00:01:30,600 which is, I suppose, a kind of pictorial cemetery of national life. 11 00:01:32,290 --> 00:01:35,760 He did a very good portrait of Prince Charles. 12 00:01:35,850 --> 00:01:40,080 Though I suppose he's much more used to having his portrait painted than I am. 13 00:01:56,850 --> 00:01:59,960 My father used to hate having his picture taken. 14 00:02:01,410 --> 00:02:05,720 He'd pull down the corners of his mouth and look really sickened. 15 00:02:05,810 --> 00:02:07,880 My ma would say, "Dad, 16 00:02:09,930 --> 00:02:11,600 "stop pulling your jib." 17 00:02:14,770 --> 00:02:17,600 But he looked so miserable sometimes, 18 00:02:17,690 --> 00:02:20,880 he looked like the last years of Somerset Maugham. 19 00:02:26,130 --> 00:02:29,440 Being photographed made my dad uneasy, 20 00:02:29,530 --> 00:02:33,230 just as being painted now makes me. 21 00:02:33,330 --> 00:02:37,160 But then, art in general has always puzzled me. 22 00:02:40,370 --> 00:02:42,880 The first art gallery I ever went into 23 00:02:42,970 --> 00:02:46,120 was here in Leeds, early in the Second World War. 24 00:02:46,930 --> 00:02:49,240 It had scarcely any pictures 25 00:02:49,330 --> 00:02:52,280 and the only one that caught my eye was rude. 26 00:02:59,210 --> 00:03:02,080 - It's so natural, isn't it? - Ah, yes. 27 00:03:03,170 --> 00:03:06,480 I think that's lovely and restful and peaceful and... 28 00:03:06,570 --> 00:03:08,240 - Peaceful, yeah. - Yeah. 29 00:03:08,330 --> 00:03:09,920 - That's lovely... - And that's like 30 00:03:10,010 --> 00:03:12,720 the industrial Yorkshire and all, with all the chimneys. 31 00:03:12,810 --> 00:03:15,120 - Yes, down Water Lane way. - Very much. 32 00:03:15,210 --> 00:03:18,000 Yes. I like country scenes, you know. 33 00:03:18,090 --> 00:03:19,960 - It is really beautiful. - Very much. 34 00:03:20,050 --> 00:03:22,040 - Jack Butler Yeats. - Yeah? 35 00:03:22,130 --> 00:03:26,800 He is the brother of the poet, the great poet. 36 00:03:27,770 --> 00:03:30,480 - Who is that? - WB Yeats. 37 00:03:30,570 --> 00:03:32,600 I have to take a look 38 00:03:32,690 --> 00:03:35,310 and tell Bjorn... I get back on the... Watch your step. 39 00:03:35,370 --> 00:03:37,990 That's right. Oh, yes. I think there are some other pictures 40 00:03:37,990 --> 00:03:41,320 by Yeats in the gallery. 41 00:03:41,410 --> 00:03:45,560 Jack Yeats, very distinguished Irish artist. 42 00:03:45,650 --> 00:03:48,080 - Very distinguished. - Okay, yeah. 43 00:03:48,170 --> 00:03:50,200 So, who do you think these people were? 44 00:03:50,230 --> 00:03:53,330 'Cause they only give us a name, but they don't tell us about who they are. 45 00:03:53,330 --> 00:03:55,590 - Who they are? - Who do you think they were? 46 00:03:56,130 --> 00:04:00,040 Well, I don't know who she was, but she was very, very sad, that lady. 47 00:04:00,130 --> 00:04:02,720 She looks more like somebody's great granny to me. 48 00:04:02,810 --> 00:04:04,800 And what do you think of the frames? 49 00:04:04,890 --> 00:04:07,670 It interferes with the picture or do you think it helps it? 50 00:04:07,690 --> 00:04:10,560 No, I should imagine they... I would think that they help. 51 00:04:10,650 --> 00:04:13,600 I think they would. They match the picture. 52 00:04:13,690 --> 00:04:15,120 Yes, they're very old, and... 53 00:04:15,210 --> 00:04:17,560 That is very good with that picture, that. 54 00:04:18,450 --> 00:04:22,200 - I think that is ever so sweet. - It's really pleasing. 55 00:04:22,290 --> 00:04:23,760 Really natural, and all. 56 00:04:23,850 --> 00:04:26,680 My appreciation of painting is quite shallow 57 00:04:26,770 --> 00:04:30,120 I find it hard to divorce appreciation from possession. 58 00:04:30,210 --> 00:04:32,360 So I know I like a picture only when I'm tempted 59 00:04:32,450 --> 00:04:35,320 to walk out with it under my raincoat. 60 00:04:35,410 --> 00:04:38,760 However much I like a painting, I seldom hang about in front of it 61 00:04:38,850 --> 00:04:41,560 but go and get a postcard instead. 62 00:04:41,650 --> 00:04:43,680 Art is hard on the feet. 63 00:04:43,770 --> 00:04:46,640 I loathe standing, and get more speedily exhausted 64 00:04:46,730 --> 00:04:50,430 in a gallery than anywhere else, except perhaps a second-hand bookshop. 65 00:04:52,370 --> 00:04:54,830 That apart, I know I prefer paintings 66 00:04:54,930 --> 00:04:57,570 where the colour tones are close together, 67 00:04:57,650 --> 00:05:00,840 as in this little picture by the Camden Town painter 68 00:05:00,930 --> 00:05:02,560 Malcolm Drummond. 69 00:05:04,450 --> 00:05:08,720 When I first saw this gallery, I was about the age these boys are now 70 00:05:09,570 --> 00:05:13,160 It was in 1942, on a school trip. 71 00:05:15,490 --> 00:05:19,440 The Standard 3 from Upper Armley National School 72 00:05:19,530 --> 00:05:24,650 were being brought down on the tram by our teacher, Miss Timson, 73 00:05:26,210 --> 00:05:29,480 to see an exhibition at the art gallery to do with Ark Royal Week. 74 00:05:31,370 --> 00:05:34,800 Miss Timson was a grey-haired, rather severe old lady, 75 00:05:35,730 --> 00:05:39,800 with the kind of old lady's legs that seem to have gone out now, 76 00:05:39,890 --> 00:05:44,960 begin at the far corners of the skirt, and converge on the ankles. 77 00:05:46,770 --> 00:05:48,480 And she'd taken us to see 78 00:05:48,570 --> 00:05:52,450 the inevitable fundraising thermometer on the Town Hall steps 79 00:05:53,530 --> 00:05:56,120 to mark the progress of the Ark Royal fund. 80 00:05:56,890 --> 00:06:00,640 And now she ushered us into the back of this crowded gallery, 81 00:06:01,730 --> 00:06:04,560 where people were watching some sea scouts 82 00:06:05,450 --> 00:06:08,400 singing and whistling Pedro the Fisherman. 83 00:06:10,650 --> 00:06:13,720 My entertainment was scarce in 1942, 84 00:06:14,930 --> 00:06:18,120 but even then I knew this was no crowd-puller. 85 00:06:20,290 --> 00:06:23,360 And the attention of Standard 3 86 00:06:23,450 --> 00:06:25,280 soon began to wander. 87 00:06:34,890 --> 00:06:37,680 - Oh, wow. - Look, a goblin. 88 00:06:38,070 --> 00:06:39,760 - Goblin. - The goblins? 89 00:06:39,850 --> 00:06:42,490 They fairly look quite Greek, don't they? 90 00:06:42,570 --> 00:06:43,890 - Perseus! - Hey, look! 91 00:06:43,970 --> 00:06:45,960 Like a great mask. 92 00:06:46,050 --> 00:06:49,440 Most of the pictures had been evacuated. 93 00:06:49,530 --> 00:06:51,720 But there was one canvas, 94 00:06:51,810 --> 00:06:54,840 big, round, battered, 95 00:06:55,930 --> 00:06:57,400 of a battlefield. 96 00:06:59,450 --> 00:07:01,600 And I don't see it here now. 97 00:07:02,690 --> 00:07:06,510 And it's this that attracted the attention of Standard 3. 98 00:07:06,670 --> 00:07:09,650 It was the kind of battle that was always being described in the Bible, 99 00:07:09,650 --> 00:07:12,270 mountains of dead, imploring wounded. 100 00:07:12,930 --> 00:07:16,040 And women wandered over the field, looking for their loved ones. 101 00:07:17,330 --> 00:07:19,040 In the foreground, a striking figure, 102 00:07:19,130 --> 00:07:21,800 my mother would have called her "a big woman". 103 00:07:21,890 --> 00:07:24,000 A queen, possibly, 104 00:07:24,090 --> 00:07:28,360 her many bangles proclaim her a person of some consequence. 105 00:07:28,450 --> 00:07:32,280 And at her feet, a wounded warrior, a consort, possibly, 106 00:07:32,310 --> 00:07:34,810 certainly someone with whom she's on intimate terms, 107 00:07:34,810 --> 00:07:37,640 because she's standing back from him, 108 00:07:37,730 --> 00:07:41,880 and has ripped aside her bodice to display an ample breast. 109 00:07:44,050 --> 00:07:48,240 Some of the boys in Standard 3, Roland Ellis, John Marston, 110 00:07:48,330 --> 00:07:50,970 had begun to nudge and snigger. 111 00:07:51,050 --> 00:07:54,240 Not me, because I'm a timid child, 112 00:07:54,330 --> 00:07:56,640 shy, or sly would be a better word. 113 00:07:56,730 --> 00:07:58,800 I keep one eye on Miss Timson, 114 00:07:58,890 --> 00:08:02,000 while stealing looks at this extraordinary canvas. 115 00:08:03,570 --> 00:08:07,270 The sight of a breast so insolently displayed was, 116 00:08:07,370 --> 00:08:11,720 even in the hygienic context of art, not a common sight in 1942. 117 00:08:13,290 --> 00:08:17,170 And as it becomes plain what this brazen woman is doing, 118 00:08:17,250 --> 00:08:19,280 the sniggering gets worse. 119 00:08:21,170 --> 00:08:25,490 What she was doing was expelling the contents of her breast, 120 00:08:25,610 --> 00:08:27,370 I think the technical term is "expressing", 121 00:08:27,370 --> 00:08:27,470 with all the overtones of the day, I think the technical term is "expressing", 122 00:08:27,470 --> 00:08:29,120 with all the overtones of the day, 123 00:08:29,210 --> 00:08:33,960 but expelling the contents of her breast into the mouth of the wounded warrior. 124 00:08:35,090 --> 00:08:37,880 Now, the range would be about three yards. 125 00:08:38,410 --> 00:08:42,570 And there may, who knows, have been some botched shots. 126 00:08:43,170 --> 00:08:46,800 But certainly at the moment of depiction, she was smack on target, 127 00:08:46,890 --> 00:08:51,000 this perfect lactic parabola going straight into his mouth. 128 00:08:52,330 --> 00:08:56,000 Now, I knew boys who could spit as accurately as that. 129 00:08:56,890 --> 00:08:59,640 And who knows, maybe this was the female equivalent? 130 00:09:00,690 --> 00:09:02,830 - And it's made out of bronze. - Bronze. 131 00:09:02,890 --> 00:09:06,720 By this time, though, the sea scouts had finished Pedro the Fisherman, 132 00:09:06,810 --> 00:09:09,560 and filing onto the stage came the Leeds police choir 133 00:09:09,650 --> 00:09:12,240 to give a rendition of Bobby Shaftoe. 134 00:09:12,330 --> 00:09:14,920 And Miss Timson looked round for her class. 135 00:09:15,890 --> 00:09:19,400 Now, whereas Roland Ellis and John Marston could be expected 136 00:09:19,490 --> 00:09:23,640 to be looking at rude pictures, I wasn't that sort of boy. 137 00:09:23,730 --> 00:09:27,360 But no sooner did I perceive the danger than I took avoiding action. 138 00:09:27,450 --> 00:09:29,880 "Miss, miss," I said, 139 00:09:29,970 --> 00:09:34,480 "is this what's known as suckering the wounded?" I was eight years old. 140 00:09:34,570 --> 00:09:39,510 "No, Alan," Miss Timson said crisply, "but very good. 141 00:09:39,610 --> 00:09:41,920 "This is what's known as smut." 142 00:09:45,210 --> 00:09:47,800 - It's Stonehenge. It's... - Stonehenge? 143 00:09:47,890 --> 00:09:51,080 - Yeah, what does that mean? - It's a famous monument. 144 00:09:51,170 --> 00:09:53,960 Stonehenge are these great stones. 145 00:09:55,170 --> 00:09:58,080 Now, are they placed there, or are they there naturally? 146 00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:03,240 No, they were placed there, about 2500 BC. 147 00:10:03,330 --> 00:10:05,360 Oh, for what purpose? Do you know that? 148 00:10:05,450 --> 00:10:07,360 I think it is for worship. 149 00:10:08,370 --> 00:10:10,960 - I see. - And I think the sun 150 00:10:11,050 --> 00:10:15,800 is supposed to shine through the central stones on the... 151 00:10:15,890 --> 00:10:18,000 That's very much like Ireland. 152 00:10:18,090 --> 00:10:19,440 Mmm. 153 00:10:20,170 --> 00:10:22,160 - Country's country, anyway. - Yes, it is, isn't it? 154 00:10:22,250 --> 00:10:23,800 - Wherever you go. - Very much so. 155 00:10:23,890 --> 00:10:26,000 So here we have an artist. 156 00:10:26,090 --> 00:10:27,520 - Yes. - He's painting. 157 00:10:27,610 --> 00:10:29,200 - Oh, yes. - A person. 158 00:10:29,290 --> 00:10:31,880 So what does that tell us? 159 00:10:31,970 --> 00:10:34,680 Do we always think of artists as being male? 160 00:10:34,770 --> 00:10:37,880 - No, no. - I don't. 161 00:10:38,250 --> 00:10:41,000 Right. But there's a lot of drawings and paintings... 162 00:10:41,090 --> 00:10:45,200 Well, he is a male. Look at the bottle beside him and all. 163 00:10:45,290 --> 00:10:47,040 - Oh, aye. - Having a swig. 164 00:10:49,770 --> 00:10:51,400 Refreshments while they work. 165 00:10:51,490 --> 00:10:54,280 We'd better not say what we think about this. I think I'd... 166 00:10:54,370 --> 00:10:57,360 We can't really see this lady's face. Is that important, do you think? 167 00:10:57,450 --> 00:10:58,410 Yes, I'm sure. 168 00:10:58,490 --> 00:10:59,870 - Because it's like a pattern. - Her face? 169 00:10:59,870 --> 00:11:02,760 - It's like a pattern. - Yes, it is. It's if they've been 170 00:11:02,850 --> 00:11:05,800 - putting in pieces kind of thing. - Yeah, like a jigsaw. 171 00:11:09,390 --> 00:11:11,360 I don't know what you'd like to see, Margaret. 172 00:11:11,450 --> 00:11:13,160 - Everything. - You'd like to see everything? 173 00:11:13,250 --> 00:11:15,560 Yeah, this is the first and last time I am here. 174 00:11:15,650 --> 00:11:18,600 The first and last time? 175 00:11:18,690 --> 00:11:21,250 Oh, well, that's London. Look at that. 176 00:11:21,330 --> 00:11:25,160 That's Kokoschka, Kokoschka! Remember it. 177 00:11:25,250 --> 00:11:27,630 - I have seen that. - Is it Kokoschka? 178 00:11:27,730 --> 00:11:30,760 - No, what's this in French? - No, it's Derain. 179 00:11:30,850 --> 00:11:33,520 - Watch the string, please... - What's the string? 180 00:11:33,610 --> 00:11:37,560 At the age of eight, one had not learned, 181 00:11:37,650 --> 00:11:42,770 nor, I suppose, had our foremistress, the propriety of art, 182 00:11:42,850 --> 00:11:46,200 that art and antiquity make it quite proper to peep. 183 00:11:47,210 --> 00:11:49,280 It's all right if it's art. 184 00:11:51,410 --> 00:11:53,790 I was once at an exhibition of Indian paintings 185 00:11:53,890 --> 00:11:56,350 at the Hayward Gallery. Tantra. 186 00:11:57,130 --> 00:12:00,000 And there was one panel where a goddess 187 00:12:00,090 --> 00:12:02,960 was having every possible thing done to her 188 00:12:03,050 --> 00:12:07,040 through every conceivable orifice, by half a dozen strapping young men, 189 00:12:07,130 --> 00:12:09,480 and enjoying every minute of it. 190 00:12:09,570 --> 00:12:13,450 And looking at this were two middle-aged, very middle-class ladies. 191 00:12:15,410 --> 00:12:17,600 Eventually one of them spoke. 192 00:12:19,250 --> 00:12:20,600 "Goodness. 193 00:12:22,010 --> 00:12:23,640 "She's a busy lady." 194 00:12:24,610 --> 00:12:28,000 - But look here! - This is a most extraordinary man. 195 00:12:28,090 --> 00:12:31,840 This man, Stanley Spencer, he lived in a little village, 196 00:12:31,930 --> 00:12:33,720 - near the Thames. - Mmm-hmm. 197 00:12:33,810 --> 00:12:38,480 And everything in his life became something religious, you see? 198 00:12:38,570 --> 00:12:39,600 Mmm. Yes. 199 00:12:39,690 --> 00:12:43,520 Yes, this is Stanley... Now, very stark. There he is again. 200 00:12:43,610 --> 00:12:46,250 Most extraordinary man, Stanley Spencer, yes. 201 00:12:46,330 --> 00:12:47,840 Hilda, Unity, and Dolls. That's right. 202 00:12:47,930 --> 00:12:51,200 - When did he live? 1891 -1950. - Yes. 203 00:12:51,290 --> 00:12:53,640 Oh, he was quite crazy, of course, but he had a brother 204 00:12:53,730 --> 00:12:57,200 - who was also an artist, you know. - Hilda, Unity, and Dolls. 205 00:12:57,290 --> 00:13:01,560 Oh, that's Gilbert! That's his brother! It's a different one. 206 00:13:01,650 --> 00:13:05,530 That's the brother, yes. He was not so famous as Stanley. 207 00:13:05,610 --> 00:13:10,810 No, "Stanley Spencer, Gardening," it says here. 208 00:13:10,890 --> 00:13:13,800 Gardening. But this one is Gilbert. 209 00:13:13,890 --> 00:13:16,240 Ah. Then, you see, we got it wrong. That's right. 210 00:13:16,330 --> 00:13:19,400 So, that isn't Stanley, that's Gilbert. 211 00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:22,960 It's very puzzling, these things, isn't it? I mean, you get very muddled. 212 00:13:24,290 --> 00:13:28,760 Painters seem to me an altogether nicer class of person than writers. 213 00:13:28,850 --> 00:13:32,010 Though they often make very good writers themselves. 214 00:13:32,370 --> 00:13:35,710 But they're less envious, less competitive. 215 00:13:36,050 --> 00:13:38,630 And I think they've got more of a sense that they're all engaged 216 00:13:38,630 --> 00:13:40,480 on a common enterprise. 217 00:13:41,930 --> 00:13:43,880 This is by Duncan Grant. 218 00:13:45,650 --> 00:13:49,880 I once met Duncan Grant when he was quite old. 219 00:13:49,970 --> 00:13:53,800 And I asked him if he was envious of other painters. 220 00:13:55,010 --> 00:13:56,680 There was a pause. 221 00:13:57,610 --> 00:13:59,000 And he said, 222 00:14:00,650 --> 00:14:03,600 "Titian, sometimes." 223 00:14:05,290 --> 00:14:08,760 And it was a good remark, because it was a joke. 224 00:14:08,850 --> 00:14:12,520 But it was also a rebuke to me for being so shallow-minded. 225 00:14:18,050 --> 00:14:20,230 - Yes, there is a... - Miss, I love that picture. 226 00:14:20,250 --> 00:14:22,010 That's what happens when you put your glasses on. 227 00:14:22,010 --> 00:14:25,280 You can see all sorts of things. I can't see because of the reflection. 228 00:14:27,250 --> 00:14:30,840 - ...war artists, by war artists. - Oh, look. 229 00:14:30,930 --> 00:14:32,600 Is that Barbara Hepworth? 230 00:14:33,890 --> 00:14:38,440 That's... I've seen a great big one like that at her garden in Cornwall. 231 00:14:38,530 --> 00:14:41,480 And these sculptures look brilliant in a garden. 232 00:15:01,050 --> 00:15:04,000 "Sarah, the naturist..." 233 00:15:04,970 --> 00:15:06,240 It's good, that. 234 00:15:07,450 --> 00:15:09,880 Like one of me own family, they're saying, 235 00:15:09,970 --> 00:15:12,120 "Go get washed in there, you see." 236 00:15:12,210 --> 00:15:15,770 So he's gone in and got washed, and that's the... I would think that... 237 00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:18,210 So you bring your own experience into pictures, 238 00:15:18,210 --> 00:15:19,240 and you think... 239 00:15:19,330 --> 00:15:22,320 Right. You imagine how, why they're there. 240 00:15:22,410 --> 00:15:24,080 - You do. - What about this one? 241 00:15:24,170 --> 00:15:25,680 This is a circus. 242 00:15:25,770 --> 00:15:28,960 That's if you've gone to the circus, which was, um, 243 00:15:29,050 --> 00:15:31,000 quite a thing in them days, wasn't it? 244 00:15:31,090 --> 00:15:32,840 - Very good, though, you know. - Very good, yes. 245 00:15:32,930 --> 00:15:35,000 And this picture, beside this picture. 246 00:15:35,090 --> 00:15:37,680 - What's this one about? - Well, why... 247 00:15:37,770 --> 00:15:41,030 Why only listen to one, why not listen to a few... 248 00:15:41,030 --> 00:15:43,290 - people have opinions and whatnot? - Well, these ladies... 249 00:15:43,290 --> 00:15:45,280 It's all wrong! Well, I don't... 250 00:15:45,370 --> 00:15:47,960 - I don't agree with it at all! - What do you think of this one? 251 00:15:48,050 --> 00:15:51,800 I won't say now, just keep it to meself and let them talk. 252 00:15:51,890 --> 00:15:53,840 Well, it isn't right! 253 00:15:54,690 --> 00:15:56,490 - Don't you agree? - I disagree. 254 00:15:56,490 --> 00:15:58,170 Well, that's what art's about, though, isn't it? 255 00:15:58,210 --> 00:16:00,090 - We all have a different opinion. - No, it isn't. It isn't. 256 00:16:00,130 --> 00:16:01,200 Don't you think? 257 00:16:01,290 --> 00:16:03,240 It is, if you're allowed to say. 258 00:16:04,930 --> 00:16:06,200 It's all right if you want to say... 259 00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:07,960 Oh, dear. 260 00:16:08,050 --> 00:16:13,200 Still, I know exactly how she feels, wishing one had the gift of the gab. 261 00:16:13,290 --> 00:16:15,720 But I wouldn't say anything about it now. 262 00:16:15,730 --> 00:16:17,610 Well, I'm interested to know what you think. 263 00:16:17,610 --> 00:16:20,250 I can imagine meself, got the kids to bed, 264 00:16:20,250 --> 00:16:22,230 - sitting down and having a read. - A read, yes. 265 00:16:23,090 --> 00:16:25,800 This is probably the most famous painting in the gallery. 266 00:16:25,890 --> 00:16:28,160 Holman Hunt' s The Shadow of Death, 267 00:16:28,250 --> 00:16:32,080 in which Mary sees Jesus' crucifixion prefigured. 268 00:16:33,330 --> 00:16:36,560 There's a larger version of it in Manchester but this was the original. 269 00:16:36,650 --> 00:16:40,080 It was just about small enough for Hunt to carry about with him, 270 00:16:40,170 --> 00:16:43,160 as he was constantly making alterations to it. 271 00:16:44,010 --> 00:16:47,960 It was painted on location in Palestine, and he went to elaborate lengths 272 00:16:48,050 --> 00:16:50,560 to get the details and the fittings right. 273 00:16:51,770 --> 00:16:55,650 The body of Christ belonged to one model and the head to another, 274 00:16:55,730 --> 00:17:00,880 who was actually not at all Christlike, a notorious villain, in fact. 275 00:17:00,970 --> 00:17:04,600 And on one occasion, Hunt had to bail him out of the local jail 276 00:17:04,690 --> 00:17:06,440 before he could have a sitting. 277 00:17:07,890 --> 00:17:10,720 It's not at all plain what Jesus is supposed to be doing, 278 00:17:10,810 --> 00:17:13,600 apart from casting the appropriate shadow. 279 00:17:14,290 --> 00:17:16,930 I suppose he's meant to be stretching after a hard day's work, 280 00:17:17,010 --> 00:17:18,680 but it hardly looks like that. 281 00:17:20,050 --> 00:17:22,320 What always used to puzzle me as a child 282 00:17:23,450 --> 00:17:26,040 was that, apart from the hair on his head, 283 00:17:26,930 --> 00:17:29,840 Jesus, I mean not merely this Jesus, any Jesus, 284 00:17:29,930 --> 00:17:33,240 never had a stitch of hair anywhere else. 285 00:17:33,330 --> 00:17:36,320 Never a breath of hair on that always-angular chest. 286 00:17:37,650 --> 00:17:40,440 God seems to have sent his only begotten son into the world 287 00:17:40,530 --> 00:17:42,600 without any hair under his arms. 288 00:17:43,690 --> 00:17:47,960 This rang a bell with me, though, because I was a late developer. 289 00:17:48,050 --> 00:17:51,480 And at 15, I was longing for puberty. 290 00:17:51,570 --> 00:17:55,270 And Jesus' pose here is exactly how I felt, 291 00:17:55,370 --> 00:17:57,960 crucified on the wall bars during PE, 292 00:17:58,730 --> 00:18:01,160 displaying for my much more hirsute classmates 293 00:18:01,250 --> 00:18:03,320 my still unsullied armpits. 294 00:18:14,490 --> 00:18:16,280 There's a fairy over there. 295 00:18:17,290 --> 00:18:19,850 - And it's a big fairy, isn't it? - I want to see. 296 00:18:29,210 --> 00:18:31,670 - What is it? - Um... 297 00:18:33,090 --> 00:18:34,720 Rocks. 298 00:18:36,770 --> 00:18:37,760 Rocks. 299 00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:42,840 They're trying to get the English out of their country. 300 00:18:42,930 --> 00:18:45,280 They didn't want them there any more. 301 00:18:45,370 --> 00:18:50,280 He was a famous general. But he was killed. 302 00:18:51,330 --> 00:18:53,970 - He's dead now? By them? - Hmm. 303 00:18:58,410 --> 00:19:03,040 But if they hadn't done that, would he have been living longer? 304 00:19:03,130 --> 00:19:04,840 - Probably. - Hmm. 305 00:19:04,930 --> 00:19:07,600 Well, a bit longer, probably. Not much longer, I would think. 306 00:19:11,570 --> 00:19:12,600 What should we do now? 307 00:19:14,210 --> 00:19:17,400 Good Lord, this is terrible, isn't it? What the heck is this? 308 00:19:19,130 --> 00:19:20,560 Oh, Vaughan. Be careful! 309 00:19:20,650 --> 00:19:23,030 - You don't need to... - I can see what you like... 310 00:19:23,130 --> 00:19:25,160 Can't you? It's fairly safe, I think, isn't it? 311 00:19:25,250 --> 00:19:27,920 - Here is modern artists. - Modern art, yeah. 312 00:19:28,050 --> 00:19:31,320 I shan't understand anything about that at all. 313 00:19:31,410 --> 00:19:32,760 Oh, I see. 314 00:19:32,850 --> 00:19:35,840 This I don't understand at all. 315 00:19:35,930 --> 00:19:38,490 - The hands? - That's too much for me. 316 00:19:38,570 --> 00:19:40,360 No. Gracious me. 317 00:19:41,250 --> 00:19:44,000 - It's too clever for me. - Hmm. 318 00:19:44,090 --> 00:19:46,470 What do we find here? 319 00:19:46,570 --> 00:19:49,600 It's all very strange, isn't it? Very strange stuff. 320 00:19:50,930 --> 00:19:54,680 This is too strange. Don't you think so? It's much too strange, this? 321 00:19:54,770 --> 00:19:57,920 You wouldn't like that in your room, would you? Dreadful. 322 00:19:58,010 --> 00:20:00,080 Yeah. 323 00:20:00,170 --> 00:20:04,160 People come into an art gallery for all sorts of reasons. 324 00:20:04,250 --> 00:20:07,520 Some, it's true, come in because they like paintings. 325 00:20:07,610 --> 00:20:12,120 But with a lot of people, looking at pictures comes quite low on the list. 326 00:20:13,490 --> 00:20:16,000 They come in out of the rain. 327 00:20:16,090 --> 00:20:17,720 Or to keep warm. 328 00:20:18,770 --> 00:20:21,080 Take the weight off their feet. 329 00:20:21,970 --> 00:20:25,520 Maybe they're early for a meeting or they're hoping for a meeting. 330 00:20:25,610 --> 00:20:28,600 They've come to pick somebody up. 331 00:20:28,690 --> 00:20:33,320 All of which are perfectly proper and legitimate reasons for being here. 332 00:20:33,410 --> 00:20:37,080 An art gallery, after all, is not unlike a park. 333 00:20:37,170 --> 00:20:41,720 But the hope is, the faith is, that the art will rub off. 334 00:20:42,890 --> 00:20:45,840 And I believe that, because that's what's happened to me. 335 00:20:45,930 --> 00:20:47,120 Look at the, um... 336 00:20:47,130 --> 00:20:49,010 You can see the brush and the tiny little details... 337 00:20:49,010 --> 00:20:53,080 The way that these shadows and the darks and lights... 338 00:20:53,170 --> 00:20:55,730 You got the light and then the dark going up... 339 00:20:55,810 --> 00:20:57,680 Makes it all quite real. 340 00:20:57,770 --> 00:20:59,400 Okay. 341 00:20:59,490 --> 00:21:03,270 And again, quite a different one there above, some type of... 342 00:21:03,370 --> 00:21:06,800 That one looks like a frilly skirt. It's, like, all frilly. 343 00:21:09,290 --> 00:21:11,320 When I was a boy, I used to do my homework 344 00:21:11,410 --> 00:21:13,760 in the reference library next door. 345 00:21:14,650 --> 00:21:17,840 And I'd come down here not because I wanted to look at the pictures 346 00:21:17,930 --> 00:21:19,640 but because I wanted a break. 347 00:21:20,930 --> 00:21:25,920 I got to know the pictures by accident, by osmosis, almost. 348 00:21:27,050 --> 00:21:28,840 I just absorbed them. 349 00:21:30,530 --> 00:21:33,360 And I can see that it's from this experience 350 00:21:33,450 --> 00:21:36,200 that I derived my attitude to television, 351 00:21:37,050 --> 00:21:41,360 believing as I do that a lot of people switch on at random, 352 00:21:41,450 --> 00:21:45,760 or without any specific idea of the programme they want to watch. 353 00:21:45,850 --> 00:21:49,840 Just as they come in here at random and for a variety of reasons. 354 00:21:51,210 --> 00:21:54,910 But given good comedy, good drama, good documentaries, 355 00:21:56,290 --> 00:22:01,680 they could be diverted and elevated, just as they can be by good pictures. 356 00:22:01,810 --> 00:22:05,400 - Athena, and the goddess whatever... - Oh, yes! Yes. 357 00:22:05,490 --> 00:22:08,210 Of course, this isn't a popular philosophy nowadays, 358 00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:10,450 particularly with the government think tanks, 359 00:22:10,450 --> 00:22:15,200 or those 14-year-old economic eunuchs who staff the Adam Smith Institute. 360 00:22:16,450 --> 00:22:18,800 They believe that people are as single-minded 361 00:22:18,890 --> 00:22:22,080 and driven by purely material considerations 362 00:22:22,170 --> 00:22:24,280 as they are themselves. 363 00:22:24,370 --> 00:22:27,720 And if a means could be devised of doing a cost-benefit analysis 364 00:22:27,810 --> 00:22:30,400 of art galleries, then they would. 365 00:22:30,490 --> 00:22:33,480 Now, this is a neutral effect, too... 366 00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:35,600 The marvel is that galleries in Britain 367 00:22:35,690 --> 00:22:38,760 are still largely free and in public ownership. 368 00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:42,720 But if a means could be devised of stealing them from the public 369 00:22:42,810 --> 00:22:45,240 for short-term financial gain, 370 00:22:45,330 --> 00:22:47,670 and transferring them to private hands, 371 00:22:47,890 --> 00:22:49,850 then in the light of its previous policies, 372 00:22:49,850 --> 00:22:52,760 I can see no reason why the government hesitates. 373 00:22:53,490 --> 00:22:56,480 It's what's known as thinking the unthinkable. 374 00:22:58,890 --> 00:23:00,800 - I think it's a tail. - It's not. 375 00:23:00,890 --> 00:23:03,240 - It is a tail. - It's not. 376 00:23:10,050 --> 00:23:13,400 But look, you see that? It comes all the way down here, 377 00:23:13,490 --> 00:23:16,840 and all the way around there, right up to her bottom. 378 00:23:17,650 --> 00:23:20,080 It's the mermaid's tail. Do you think it's a fish? 379 00:23:20,170 --> 00:23:21,280 Maybe there, Mum? 380 00:23:21,370 --> 00:23:26,000 - What's happened to the ship? - I can read this. "Mermaid's Rock." 381 00:23:26,090 --> 00:23:28,650 Come back and see. What do you think has happened to...? 382 00:23:29,530 --> 00:23:32,440 This is more the French style. Here we are. 383 00:23:32,530 --> 00:23:35,880 That's not so bad. Ah, he's an Englishman. 384 00:23:35,970 --> 00:23:38,120 - Wood, I learned... - Christopher Wood. 385 00:23:38,210 --> 00:23:40,720 I associate him with boats, Wood. 386 00:23:40,810 --> 00:23:44,510 I can't see any boats here. Is this Christopher Wood again? 387 00:23:45,690 --> 00:23:47,440 No, it's Wallace. 388 00:23:48,170 --> 00:23:52,680 Yeah, now, that... That looks like Van Gogh, doesn't it? 389 00:23:52,770 --> 00:23:54,480 It don't remind me about him. 390 00:23:54,570 --> 00:23:56,270 - It's doesn't remind... - It doesn't remind me. 391 00:23:56,330 --> 00:23:58,710 Oh, it's doesn't matter. That's all right. I like that one. 392 00:23:58,810 --> 00:24:01,080 - Christopher Wood. - I like that one, don't you? 393 00:24:02,170 --> 00:24:04,280 That's good to have, isn't it? 394 00:24:05,050 --> 00:24:06,440 I love this. 395 00:24:06,530 --> 00:24:08,080 Yes. What does it mean? 396 00:24:08,170 --> 00:24:11,200 I don't know. It's just as though a kid has just scribbled it, isn't it? 397 00:24:11,290 --> 00:24:12,800 It's all mad, isn't it? 398 00:24:14,210 --> 00:24:17,520 It's very bright, but I don't think I could live with it, though. 399 00:24:17,650 --> 00:24:19,760 - Could you? - No, no, no. No, but... 400 00:24:19,850 --> 00:24:22,840 - It's all right for where it is. - Yes, yes, it is. 401 00:24:22,930 --> 00:24:24,720 "I don't think I could live with it" 402 00:24:24,810 --> 00:24:27,600 is, of course, the raincoat principle in reverse. 403 00:24:28,570 --> 00:24:33,280 "I wouldn't want it at home" rules out all manner of masterpieces. 404 00:24:33,370 --> 00:24:36,200 The ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, for a start. 405 00:24:37,050 --> 00:24:39,400 One side of the... 406 00:24:39,410 --> 00:24:42,190 You know, anybody just casual looking at it would think it's daubed, 407 00:24:42,210 --> 00:24:43,480 but it isn't. 408 00:24:43,570 --> 00:24:48,800 Because all these bits here, those, and the ridges on them, 409 00:24:48,890 --> 00:24:52,240 you don't put paintbrush in and just daub it out like that. 410 00:24:52,330 --> 00:24:54,970 You see, look at it. It's clever. 411 00:24:55,050 --> 00:24:57,430 - Oh, it's specially done, isn't it? - It's good. 412 00:24:57,530 --> 00:25:00,880 I'm thinking I should bring my granddaughter to see this because 413 00:25:00,970 --> 00:25:03,040 she does paint. 414 00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:06,280 - And she has painted pictures for me. - Right. 415 00:25:06,370 --> 00:25:09,440 It's completely different, isn't it, from the ones next door? 416 00:25:09,530 --> 00:25:12,760 - From the others, yes. - I mean, can we tell what it is? 417 00:25:12,850 --> 00:25:16,360 - It's not really anything, is it? - No! No, but it's the modern trend. 418 00:25:16,450 --> 00:25:19,680 - Or it can be what we want it to be. - That's right. Yeah. 419 00:25:19,770 --> 00:25:22,080 Yes, it's good. It's very nice. 420 00:25:22,170 --> 00:25:23,520 What do you think of it? 421 00:25:23,610 --> 00:25:28,200 - Interesting. - It's modern art and it's very bright. 422 00:25:28,290 --> 00:25:32,480 - Very bright and cheerful, but I... - They don't beat the other ones. 423 00:25:32,570 --> 00:25:33,790 - Do they? In the other room. - No. 424 00:25:33,890 --> 00:25:36,160 It's very busy, isn't it? It's very energetic. 425 00:25:36,250 --> 00:25:37,360 - Yes, yes. - Oh, yes. 426 00:25:37,450 --> 00:25:38,440 It's very lively. 427 00:25:38,530 --> 00:25:43,000 I bet it's really lovely for modern art. You know. That is modern art, of course. 428 00:25:43,010 --> 00:25:45,010 But do you like it? Would you have it on your wall? 429 00:25:45,010 --> 00:25:46,080 - Oh, no. - No. 430 00:25:46,170 --> 00:25:47,520 - No? - No! 431 00:25:47,610 --> 00:25:49,040 I would. I'd be... 432 00:25:49,130 --> 00:25:52,440 I think that must be the Sitwell over there. Surely. 433 00:25:52,530 --> 00:25:54,840 Mustn't it? This woman here. 434 00:25:54,930 --> 00:25:56,880 - What is that? - Edith Sitwell, is it? 435 00:25:59,450 --> 00:26:02,160 No, I've got it wrong. Some other woman. 436 00:26:02,250 --> 00:26:09,000 "Praxitella. Percy Wyndham Lewis." He was a very famous artist as well. 437 00:26:09,090 --> 00:26:12,440 - An English? An Englishman? - Very famous. Very famous. Oh my, oh! 438 00:26:12,530 --> 00:26:15,800 - It's very severe, isn't it? - Yes, very. 439 00:26:15,890 --> 00:26:18,800 Metallic. Hard. Cruel. 440 00:26:18,890 --> 00:26:21,880 The colours are marvellous, you know. Really, aren't they? 441 00:26:21,970 --> 00:26:23,920 I think that's smashing. 442 00:26:24,010 --> 00:26:27,600 I like this. It's the Union Jack, actually. 443 00:26:27,690 --> 00:26:31,080 More or less, yeah. Yeah. 444 00:26:37,210 --> 00:26:38,680 This is modern, isn't it? 445 00:26:39,690 --> 00:26:42,200 I bet it's taken some doing, you know. 446 00:26:42,290 --> 00:26:45,160 All those little objects, they're all... 447 00:26:45,250 --> 00:26:47,280 How would they be stuck on, do you think? 448 00:26:47,370 --> 00:26:51,760 - Yeah, if the colour... There... - Which colour is it? 449 00:26:51,850 --> 00:26:52,840 Oh, yeah. 450 00:26:54,370 --> 00:26:56,960 I wouldn't mind a small one of that in the house, 451 00:26:57,050 --> 00:26:59,170 but I wouldn't have one of those in the house. 452 00:26:59,210 --> 00:27:01,160 - Just a small one. - Yes! 453 00:27:01,250 --> 00:27:04,080 - This is a peculiar effort, isn't it? - Pardon? 454 00:27:04,170 --> 00:27:06,440 I said, this is a peculiar effort. 455 00:27:06,530 --> 00:27:08,880 Is that a vacuum cleaner on the floor? 456 00:27:12,850 --> 00:27:14,280 What's that? 457 00:27:16,330 --> 00:27:17,550 Minnie Mouse? 458 00:27:28,370 --> 00:27:29,960 It's certainly not a rabbit. 459 00:27:30,050 --> 00:27:31,960 - Could be. Could be. - Could be. 460 00:27:32,050 --> 00:27:34,360 Could be. Very easily. 461 00:27:34,450 --> 00:27:37,560 Yes, yes, it could. A rabbit? Yes, yeah. 462 00:27:37,650 --> 00:27:39,440 Without the fur. Skinned rabbit. 463 00:27:40,570 --> 00:27:42,360 It is very good. 464 00:27:42,450 --> 00:27:44,640 - I think you could be right. - Yes. 465 00:27:45,890 --> 00:27:48,480 Charles Ginner, yes. He's very good. 466 00:27:48,570 --> 00:27:49,680 - Yeah? - Yes, I met his... 467 00:27:49,770 --> 00:27:53,600 I met his sister once, this artist. 468 00:27:53,690 --> 00:27:57,080 And she was distinguished for Greek dancing. 469 00:27:57,170 --> 00:28:00,000 - His sister, yes. I met her. - Let me see. 470 00:28:01,130 --> 00:28:02,920 - Ruby Ginner. - Ginner? 471 00:28:03,010 --> 00:28:07,920 Yes. Ruby Ginner. They belonged, I think, to the Camden Group of painters. 472 00:28:08,010 --> 00:28:09,760 - All these. - Mmm-hmm. 473 00:28:09,850 --> 00:28:13,920 Spencer Frederick Gore. All these are the Camden Group. 474 00:28:14,010 --> 00:28:17,400 There was often a tramp in here in the late '40s, 475 00:28:17,490 --> 00:28:20,400 hanging about the gallery or slumped over an art book 476 00:28:20,490 --> 00:28:22,400 in the corner of the reference library. 477 00:28:23,730 --> 00:28:28,280 Except that he wasn't a tramp. He was quite a distinguished painter. 478 00:28:28,370 --> 00:28:30,200 Jacob Kramer. 479 00:28:30,290 --> 00:28:32,360 And this is his bust by Epstein. 480 00:28:34,210 --> 00:28:37,520 Kramer was Jewish. His family were from the Ukraine, 481 00:28:37,610 --> 00:28:40,480 one of many thousands of Jewish families who came to Leeds 482 00:28:40,570 --> 00:28:42,800 at the end of the 19th century. 483 00:28:42,890 --> 00:28:46,880 And since then, there's always been a very strong Jewish community in Leeds. 484 00:28:46,970 --> 00:28:50,800 And out of it came Marks & Spencer's and Montague Burton's. 485 00:28:52,170 --> 00:28:54,080 As a young man, he was a vorticist, 486 00:28:54,170 --> 00:28:57,120 an associate of Wyndham Lewis and William Roberts. 487 00:28:58,570 --> 00:29:00,600 I find it hard to say what vorticism is. 488 00:29:00,690 --> 00:29:04,080 I think of it as the jagged school of painting. 489 00:29:04,690 --> 00:29:06,800 Cubism with an English slant. 490 00:29:07,410 --> 00:29:11,240 But both Kramer's Jewishness and his vorticism 491 00:29:11,330 --> 00:29:13,520 can be seen in this picture. 492 00:29:13,610 --> 00:29:15,480 The Day of Atonement, 493 00:29:15,570 --> 00:29:20,080 which was unveiled in the art gallery in 1920 494 00:29:20,170 --> 00:29:22,810 to a storm of anti-Semitic protest. 495 00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:43,030 There was still a lot of anti-Semitism in Leeds, 496 00:29:43,050 --> 00:29:44,880 even after the Second War. 497 00:29:44,970 --> 00:29:48,520 And I can remember Jewish boys at my school being regularly bullied. 498 00:29:48,610 --> 00:29:52,760 One boy in particular, Alan Harris, always coming in for it, 499 00:29:52,850 --> 00:29:55,040 the masters turning a blind eye. 500 00:29:56,250 --> 00:29:59,720 And one master catching him a terrific slap across the face once. 501 00:30:00,850 --> 00:30:04,480 And then, years later, when I was in Harrogate, 502 00:30:05,690 --> 00:30:09,440 I came across this master, now tranquilly retired. 503 00:30:09,530 --> 00:30:11,840 And he came up to me in the tea shop. 504 00:30:11,930 --> 00:30:15,000 And as he came up, I thought, "Oh yes, you're the one who hit the Jew." 505 00:30:16,090 --> 00:30:19,870 Nowadays, the Asians have replaced the Jews in the front line, 506 00:30:19,970 --> 00:30:22,840 actually living where the Jews used to live. 507 00:30:22,930 --> 00:30:26,360 The only difference really being that nowadays we talk about the prejudice, 508 00:30:26,450 --> 00:30:28,680 whereas in those days one never mentioned it. 509 00:30:29,970 --> 00:30:32,720 Kramer himself died in 1962, 510 00:30:32,810 --> 00:30:36,690 indistinguishable from a lot of the tramps who you see outside. 511 00:30:36,770 --> 00:30:39,230 Except that in 1966, 512 00:30:39,330 --> 00:30:42,320 Leeds College of Art was renamed after him. 513 00:30:42,410 --> 00:30:45,480 So he was more respectable in death than he ever was in life. 514 00:31:13,450 --> 00:31:17,600 Old people challenge one's complacent assumptions. 515 00:31:17,690 --> 00:31:21,240 The old ladies are altogether unfazed by the avant-garde, 516 00:31:21,330 --> 00:31:23,560 much as children are. 517 00:31:23,650 --> 00:31:25,840 Outrage is for middle-age. 518 00:31:26,370 --> 00:31:28,590 The time it must have been taken just to make that. 519 00:31:28,610 --> 00:31:29,930 To build that. 520 00:31:30,810 --> 00:31:33,080 Very much. Very, very much. 521 00:31:33,890 --> 00:31:34,880 Are we... 522 00:31:34,970 --> 00:31:38,440 Been very clever, the people that's done it. 523 00:31:39,850 --> 00:31:40,880 Yes. 524 00:31:45,650 --> 00:31:49,960 Now, that is art. Very much art. 525 00:31:50,050 --> 00:31:51,190 Yeah. 526 00:31:53,810 --> 00:31:55,760 That is beautiful, is that. 527 00:32:14,490 --> 00:32:15,600 Beautiful, that. 528 00:32:35,570 --> 00:32:38,440 Anyone who knows Leeds will find this painting, 529 00:32:38,530 --> 00:32:41,120 Park Row by Atkinson Grimshaw, 530 00:32:41,210 --> 00:32:45,120 almost a documentary record, this church apart, 531 00:32:45,210 --> 00:32:49,200 of how the street looked even as late as 1960, 532 00:32:49,290 --> 00:32:52,400 which was when the city fell to greed and mediocrity. 533 00:32:54,290 --> 00:32:58,600 Some silly people on the right nowadays wish the '60s hadn't happened, 534 00:32:58,690 --> 00:33:02,040 because that was when people discovered sex and smoking pot. 535 00:33:03,050 --> 00:33:05,320 If I wish the '60s hadn't happened 536 00:33:05,410 --> 00:33:07,640 it's because that was when avarice and stupidity 537 00:33:07,730 --> 00:33:10,440 got to the wheel of the bulldozer. 538 00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:13,440 They called it enterprise, and still do. 539 00:33:13,530 --> 00:33:16,840 But the real enterprise would have been if someone in 1960 540 00:33:16,930 --> 00:33:19,800 had had the clout and the imagination to say, 541 00:33:19,890 --> 00:33:22,530 "Let's leave this city much as it is. 542 00:33:22,610 --> 00:33:26,760 "Convert it, perhaps. Re-plumb it. But nothing else." 543 00:33:26,850 --> 00:33:28,070 If they had, 544 00:33:28,170 --> 00:33:32,240 Leeds, today would have been one of the architectural showplaces of the Kingdom. 545 00:33:32,330 --> 00:33:37,640 A Victorian Genoa or Florence, on which many of its buildings were modelled. 546 00:33:37,730 --> 00:33:40,760 Instead, it's much like anywhere else. 547 00:33:42,570 --> 00:33:45,240 Still, one thing that hasn't changed in Leeds 548 00:33:45,330 --> 00:33:47,920 is the relationship of art and learning. 549 00:33:48,010 --> 00:33:51,000 Next door to the gallery still, the library. 550 00:33:55,410 --> 00:33:58,240 The clientele hasn't changed much, either. 551 00:33:59,610 --> 00:34:01,520 I think these are exactly the same people 552 00:34:01,610 --> 00:34:03,680 who were here 40 years ago. 553 00:34:20,650 --> 00:34:24,430 Apart from Thak, the cartoonist on the Yorkshire Evening Post, 554 00:34:24,530 --> 00:34:25,880 the only other artist 555 00:34:25,970 --> 00:34:29,080 whose style I would immediately have recognised as a boy 556 00:34:29,170 --> 00:34:33,640 was the now long-forgotten illustrator, Fortunino Matania. 557 00:34:33,730 --> 00:34:37,840 Or F Matania, as he always signed himself. 558 00:34:37,930 --> 00:34:41,400 His work used to grace the pages of the now long-defunct 559 00:34:41,490 --> 00:34:43,560 Britannia and Eve. 560 00:34:43,650 --> 00:34:47,120 It was a cross between The Sphere and The Tatler. 561 00:34:48,690 --> 00:34:52,470 And one would find it in doctors' and dentists' waiting rooms. 562 00:34:52,570 --> 00:34:54,800 Or in my case, read while waiting my turn 563 00:34:54,890 --> 00:34:58,040 at Mr Oddy's, the barbers in Shireoaks Street. 564 00:34:59,570 --> 00:35:02,680 Matania was a historical illustrator 565 00:35:02,770 --> 00:35:05,560 with a particular line in genteel orgies. 566 00:35:06,690 --> 00:35:09,200 Letting it rip under Alaric the Goth. 567 00:35:10,250 --> 00:35:15,000 The destruction of Pompeii brought about by heavy petting. 568 00:35:16,490 --> 00:35:19,680 There were lots of thighs and the occasional breast. 569 00:35:20,530 --> 00:35:24,000 And plenty of floating draperies and leather thongs. 570 00:35:24,090 --> 00:35:28,640 And poring furtively over them as I waited for my short back and sides 571 00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:33,090 I found them, aged 11, immensely exciting. 572 00:35:33,690 --> 00:35:35,970 Of course, it never occurred to me that this was exactly 573 00:35:35,970 --> 00:35:40,320 what they were meant to seem and intended to titillate the appetite. 574 00:35:40,410 --> 00:35:43,760 Though from the point of view of the editors of Brittania and Eve, 575 00:35:43,850 --> 00:35:47,240 the appetites were more those of jaded club men 576 00:35:47,330 --> 00:35:49,280 and the occasional bishop 577 00:35:49,370 --> 00:35:52,680 whiling away a long afternoon in the Athenaeum 578 00:35:52,770 --> 00:35:56,920 rather than a small boy 579 00:35:57,010 --> 00:36:00,760 scanning a fifth-hand copy in a provincial barbershop. 580 00:36:29,330 --> 00:36:32,200 While not quite so ancient as this photograph, 581 00:36:32,290 --> 00:36:37,080 Leeds as I first remember it seemed safe, innocent and dull. 582 00:36:37,170 --> 00:36:39,600 It was largely untouched by the war. 583 00:36:39,690 --> 00:36:42,360 Sheffield caught it. Liverpool caught it. 584 00:36:42,450 --> 00:36:45,760 But Leeds, hardly at all. Why should it? 585 00:36:45,850 --> 00:36:49,240 The city specialised in the manufacture of ready-made suits 586 00:36:49,330 --> 00:36:51,840 and the cultivation of rhubarb. 587 00:36:51,930 --> 00:36:54,570 In its conduct to the war, the German high command 588 00:36:54,650 --> 00:36:56,680 was notoriously quixotic. 589 00:36:56,770 --> 00:37:00,320 But I imagine a line had to be drawn somewhere. 590 00:37:00,410 --> 00:37:04,680 Thus, in the whole course of the war, relatively few bombs fell on Leeds. 591 00:37:04,770 --> 00:37:09,160 And these were promptly torn apart by schoolboys famished for shrapnel. 592 00:37:28,610 --> 00:37:30,800 In London, on the eve of the war, 593 00:37:30,890 --> 00:37:33,880 the precious contents of the National Gallery were crated up 594 00:37:33,970 --> 00:37:36,680 and taken off to a slate quarry in Wales, 595 00:37:36,770 --> 00:37:38,440 there to be hidden in caves. 596 00:37:39,410 --> 00:37:43,040 Leeds, lacking metropolitan masterpieces, 597 00:37:43,130 --> 00:37:47,440 just popped its collection on a tram, took it a little ride up the York Road 598 00:37:47,530 --> 00:37:50,800 through Holton, along by the municipal golf course 599 00:37:50,890 --> 00:37:53,200 to Temple Newsam House. 600 00:37:53,290 --> 00:37:55,960 It was a trip I'd done several times with my grandma. 601 00:37:57,490 --> 00:38:00,050 But the contrast is revealing. 602 00:38:00,130 --> 00:38:04,560 In London, a getaway in the nick of time to a remote and romantic haven. 603 00:38:04,650 --> 00:38:07,680 In Leeds, a tuppenny-ha'penny tram ride. 604 00:38:08,730 --> 00:38:12,610 From as early as I can remember, life, or at any rate, life in Leeds 605 00:38:12,690 --> 00:38:14,640 never quite came up to scratch. 606 00:38:36,330 --> 00:38:38,550 Well, here we are actually in the Great Hall. 607 00:38:38,590 --> 00:38:41,570 I just wanted to say one word about the room that we're actually in. 608 00:38:41,570 --> 00:38:45,880 This is actually on the site of the Great Hall, 609 00:38:45,970 --> 00:38:49,160 which was built by Bordasse in 1500. 610 00:38:49,250 --> 00:38:51,630 But its present appearance as you see it today 611 00:38:51,730 --> 00:38:56,280 is this marvellous example of antiquarian taste 612 00:38:56,370 --> 00:39:01,040 of the early 19th century. The romantic taste of old England, if you like. 613 00:39:01,130 --> 00:39:03,770 This splendid panelling that you see on the walls. 614 00:39:03,850 --> 00:39:06,880 The ashlar of the walls itself. 615 00:39:06,970 --> 00:39:10,000 And this Jacobean-type ceiling up here. 616 00:39:10,090 --> 00:39:14,470 This is all very, very sort of symptomatic of the taste of the 1820s, 617 00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:17,150 which is really the date that we're looking at here. 618 00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:23,480 And we've recently restored this to its appearance of about the 1820s... 619 00:39:23,570 --> 00:39:26,000 I was conscious, even as a child, 620 00:39:26,090 --> 00:39:29,970 that I lived in the provinces and therefore on the sidelines. 621 00:39:30,050 --> 00:39:33,640 Here at Temple Newsam were kept various historic relics. 622 00:39:33,730 --> 00:39:36,560 A bed in a room where had slept Lord Darnley, 623 00:39:36,650 --> 00:39:39,290 the murdered husband of Mary, Queen of Scots. 624 00:39:39,370 --> 00:39:42,480 A hat reputed to be Oliver Cromwell's. 625 00:39:42,570 --> 00:39:46,720 And as a child, I used to come here quite often to revisit these relics, 626 00:39:46,810 --> 00:39:50,080 gaze at Darnley's bed and Cromwell's hat 627 00:39:50,170 --> 00:39:54,680 and think that these objects were here in Leeds, of all places. 628 00:39:54,770 --> 00:39:57,720 So it was possible that this provincial city, 629 00:39:57,810 --> 00:40:01,720 which seemed so utterly remote from any life I read about in books, 630 00:40:01,810 --> 00:40:04,370 and which even the war had scarcely touched, 631 00:40:04,450 --> 00:40:09,360 that Leeds had, once upon a time, figured in things, 632 00:40:09,450 --> 00:40:12,040 had been brushed by the wings of history. 633 00:40:13,010 --> 00:40:16,080 Life hadn't always been elsewhere 634 00:40:16,170 --> 00:40:18,630 and here was Darnley's bed to prove it. 635 00:40:18,730 --> 00:40:22,360 He had his wonderful workshop... Come along! 636 00:40:24,570 --> 00:40:29,040 And lots of creamware here and other ceramics. 637 00:40:29,050 --> 00:40:31,440 So you couldn't really come back and look at your stuff. 638 00:40:33,690 --> 00:40:35,520 And there's the... 639 00:40:35,610 --> 00:40:38,520 And then there's a wonderful single-poster bed here. 640 00:40:39,450 --> 00:40:40,670 Very unusual. 641 00:40:41,570 --> 00:40:45,480 And we come on now into the Darnley Room. 642 00:40:46,570 --> 00:40:48,800 The so-called Darnley Room. 643 00:40:48,890 --> 00:40:53,600 This wonderful panelled interior with this wonderful plaster work 644 00:40:53,690 --> 00:40:56,960 in the frieze in the ceiling. 645 00:40:57,050 --> 00:41:02,200 And it would be lovely to think that this room really actually was made 646 00:41:02,290 --> 00:41:06,200 at the time of Lord Darnley's occupation of this house, 647 00:41:06,290 --> 00:41:09,200 and was supposedly the room in which he was born, 648 00:41:09,290 --> 00:41:12,320 but unfortunately, this is simply not the case. 649 00:41:12,410 --> 00:41:14,280 This is a wonderful 19th century myth. 650 00:41:14,370 --> 00:41:17,800 Mrs Meynell Ingram in the 1890s almost certainly 651 00:41:17,890 --> 00:41:21,400 had this room panelled and given its present appearance 652 00:41:21,490 --> 00:41:23,280 and christened it "The Darnley Room". 653 00:41:23,370 --> 00:41:27,000 I think she'd probably been misled that this was the part of the house 654 00:41:27,090 --> 00:41:30,720 in which the principal apartment would have been in the 16th century. 655 00:41:30,810 --> 00:41:33,760 But, in fact, this room did not even exist, unfortunately, 656 00:41:33,850 --> 00:41:35,960 at the time of Lord Darnley's occupation. 657 00:41:36,050 --> 00:41:39,520 The house ended at that wall over there and the room beyond. 658 00:41:39,610 --> 00:41:41,120 And, so, this is another example 659 00:41:41,210 --> 00:41:43,720 of this sort of 19th century sort of myth, 660 00:41:43,810 --> 00:41:47,800 this wonderful making up of stories, this antiquarianism. 661 00:41:47,890 --> 00:41:50,720 Which, you know, was fun and games at the time. 662 00:41:50,810 --> 00:41:52,440 Hey ho. 663 00:41:52,530 --> 00:41:57,280 Well, it was a myth that sustained me as a child, anyway. 664 00:42:08,730 --> 00:42:12,200 The pictures remained in Temple Newsam till the end of the war. 665 00:42:12,290 --> 00:42:14,400 For "the duration", as it was called, 666 00:42:14,490 --> 00:42:19,240 "the duration" a mysterious term, both permit and excuse, 667 00:42:19,330 --> 00:42:21,710 a kind of licensed putting off of things, 668 00:42:21,810 --> 00:42:24,920 the suspension of the normal until, with peacetime, 669 00:42:25,010 --> 00:42:27,280 life returned to its old ways. 670 00:42:30,650 --> 00:42:33,160 It's a cliché that war advances science, 671 00:42:33,250 --> 00:42:35,480 but of course it also encourages the arts. 672 00:42:35,570 --> 00:42:39,350 Never were the theatres or the cinemas so full as during the war. 673 00:42:39,450 --> 00:42:42,560 And of course, the churches and the art galleries, too. 674 00:42:42,650 --> 00:42:46,800 Philip Hendy, who was the director of the gallery here during the war 675 00:42:46,890 --> 00:42:50,360 organised a series of exhibitions by modern British artists. 676 00:42:50,450 --> 00:42:55,000 John Piper, Stanley Spencer, Barbara Hepworth, Henry Moore. 677 00:42:55,090 --> 00:42:57,240 And they attracted huge crowds, 678 00:42:57,330 --> 00:43:01,560 far more than they probably would have done during easier times. 679 00:43:01,650 --> 00:43:04,210 Peace, which in theory ought to foster the arts, 680 00:43:04,290 --> 00:43:06,750 actually brings out complacency. 681 00:43:06,850 --> 00:43:11,360 Leeds had been very enthusiastic about Henry Moore's work during the war 682 00:43:11,450 --> 00:43:16,080 but when, in 1951, they actually bought one of his reclining figures, 683 00:43:16,170 --> 00:43:18,320 the Philistines came out in force. 684 00:43:26,370 --> 00:43:29,240 Back in the gallery, they're busy preparing an exhibition 685 00:43:29,330 --> 00:43:33,160 on one of the sons of Leeds and a hero of modern art, 686 00:43:33,250 --> 00:43:35,480 the critic Herbert Reed. 687 00:43:44,690 --> 00:43:46,600 We can make provisional arrangements. 688 00:43:46,690 --> 00:43:48,080 Here's the piece at the back. 689 00:43:48,170 --> 00:43:50,440 - No, that's it. - Is it? 690 00:43:50,530 --> 00:43:52,990 Because it's got the circle with the cross on it. 691 00:43:53,090 --> 00:43:55,040 No, no, no. This is the piece. This piece. 692 00:43:55,130 --> 00:43:57,770 We'll put this one first and this one there. 693 00:44:17,090 --> 00:44:20,640 We're here to celebrate a great Yorkshireman, 694 00:44:20,730 --> 00:44:23,600 a multi-talented man, and a great educator, 695 00:44:23,690 --> 00:44:27,570 who did many things, but one of them was to pull the thinking 696 00:44:27,650 --> 00:44:30,720 of a country about its arts from one century into another. 697 00:44:30,810 --> 00:44:32,720 And he did it almost single-handedly. 698 00:44:37,010 --> 00:44:38,480 And his sense of propagating art, 699 00:44:38,490 --> 00:44:41,080 of spreading it and giving it to as many people as possible 700 00:44:41,170 --> 00:44:45,080 has been one of the big triumphs, you can call it, of this century. 701 00:44:47,370 --> 00:44:50,440 This is a jolly occasion, but I can't help feeling 702 00:44:50,530 --> 00:44:55,730 that defending and explaining modern art made Reed's, in some ways, a sad life. 703 00:44:58,610 --> 00:45:02,960 - I like that one the best. - There, yes. 704 00:45:03,970 --> 00:45:05,080 I wish I owned that. 705 00:45:14,370 --> 00:45:18,640 Few artists will thank you for explaining or justifying their work. 706 00:45:18,730 --> 00:45:22,560 They think it justifies itself, or else they wouldn't have done it. 707 00:45:22,650 --> 00:45:26,320 But then I think Reed knew that, too, and persisted. 708 00:45:26,410 --> 00:45:28,320 And that's what makes him a hero. 709 00:45:33,370 --> 00:45:35,880 And here's my artist, Tom Wood, 710 00:45:35,970 --> 00:45:39,920 who says that the portrait is finished and about to go on view 711 00:45:40,010 --> 00:45:43,080 But not here in Leeds, of course. In London. 712 00:46:52,690 --> 00:46:55,000 The gamble, of course, in all this 713 00:46:55,090 --> 00:46:58,870 is whether one is actually going to make it to posterity. 714 00:46:58,970 --> 00:47:02,960 Meanwhile, it's away and down, I suspect, to the cellar, 715 00:47:03,050 --> 00:47:05,690 where one will wait in the far-from-certain hope 716 00:47:05,770 --> 00:47:07,560 of pictorial resurrection. 717 00:47:15,370 --> 00:47:17,200 I have a portrait of myself already, 718 00:47:17,290 --> 00:47:22,410 which I did in... I suppose 1955, when I was at university. 719 00:47:22,490 --> 00:47:25,000 I did several around that time 720 00:47:25,090 --> 00:47:27,730 and I found that the only thing I could paint was myself, 721 00:47:27,810 --> 00:47:29,600 so I stopped trying to paint. 722 00:47:30,570 --> 00:47:36,480 However, last year I was in Arezzo having tea in quite a posh tea shop. 723 00:47:37,410 --> 00:47:40,200 And at another table were some Englishwomen. 724 00:47:41,050 --> 00:47:42,720 And one of them came over to me. 725 00:47:43,850 --> 00:47:45,840 And she said, 726 00:47:45,930 --> 00:47:48,360 "I would like to thank you..." 727 00:47:48,450 --> 00:47:52,600 and my face fell into a look of accommodating niceness. 728 00:47:52,690 --> 00:47:56,040 "I would like to thank you for all the pleasure 729 00:47:56,130 --> 00:47:58,320 "your paintings have given me." 730 00:47:59,410 --> 00:48:03,880 And, I didn't let on. I said thank you 731 00:48:03,970 --> 00:48:07,320 and she went away, and I think she was going to the loo. 732 00:48:07,410 --> 00:48:12,720 And everything would've been all right, but en route she told the proprietress 733 00:48:12,810 --> 00:48:15,920 who she thought was in the café. 734 00:48:16,910 --> 00:48:18,510 And the next thing that happens is 735 00:48:18,530 --> 00:48:22,720 the proprietress is bearing down on me with a large black book. 736 00:48:22,810 --> 00:48:25,480 And she thanks me for 737 00:48:25,570 --> 00:48:28,960 all the contributions I'd made to operatic design 738 00:48:29,050 --> 00:48:33,320 and would I sign with all the other operatic notables? 739 00:48:33,410 --> 00:48:35,000 So... 740 00:48:36,610 --> 00:48:39,250 I just did a little drawing of myself, 741 00:48:40,370 --> 00:48:43,080 not unlike the self-portrait... 742 00:48:50,770 --> 00:48:54,520 ...and signed it David Hockney. 743 00:48:54,610 --> 00:48:58,470 At which, not surprisingly, she was very pleased, 744 00:48:58,650 --> 00:49:00,550 and went away with the book thinking that 745 00:49:00,570 --> 00:49:02,920 she was several thousand pounds the richer. 746 00:49:04,010 --> 00:49:08,280 ♪ Pedro the fisherman was always whistling 747 00:49:08,370 --> 00:49:12,560 ♪ Such a merry call 748 00:49:12,650 --> 00:49:16,880 ♪ Girls who were passing by would hear him whistling 749 00:49:16,970 --> 00:49:21,200 ♪ By the harbour wall 750 00:49:21,290 --> 00:49:25,520 ♪ But his sweetheart Nina who loved him true, always new 751 00:49:25,610 --> 00:49:29,880 ♪ That his song belonged to her alone 752 00:49:29,970 --> 00:49:34,200 ♪ And in the evening when the lights were gleaming 753 00:49:34,290 --> 00:49:38,480 ♪ And they had to part 754 00:49:38,570 --> 00:49:42,720 ♪ As he sailed his boat away, echoing across the bay 755 00:49:42,810 --> 00:49:46,080 ♪ Came the tune that lingered in her heart ♪ 65016

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