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1
00:03:17,666 --> 00:03:21,033
One bathrobe, blue.
2
00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,899
One Toshiba laptop...
3
00:03:30,033 --> 00:03:34,800
model SA60 dash 117.
4
00:03:39,899 --> 00:03:42,699
One sauce pan, stainless steel.
5
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,266
One medical briefcase, brown leather.
6
00:03:58,300 --> 00:04:00,733
Three wine glasses.
7
00:04:08,333 --> 00:04:11,333
Five highball glasses.
8
00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:21,666
One opened bottle of poppers, Hardware.
9
00:04:24,866 --> 00:04:29,400
One unopened bottle of poppers, Rush.
10
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,033
One used condom.
11
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,833
Eleven unused condoms.
12
00:04:53,500 --> 00:04:57,733
Two unused condoms, Extra Large.
13
00:05:03,266 --> 00:05:06,300
One dildo, penis.
14
00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,300
One dildo, fist.
15
00:05:22,899 --> 00:05:25,933
Six compact discs.
16
00:05:28,100 --> 00:05:30,833
Kristine W - Feel What You Want.
17
00:05:38,866 --> 00:05:41,800
George Michael - Ladies and Gentlemen.
18
00:05:44,300 --> 00:05:47,000
Aimee Mann - Magnolia.
19
00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,266
Knuffelrock - Part 7.
20
00:05:56,033 --> 00:05:59,200
Prodigy - Firestarter.
21
00:06:00,633 --> 00:06:04,866
And Nina Simone - Emergency Ward.
22
00:06:13,333 --> 00:06:15,933
One half bag of Japanese nuts.
23
00:06:20,233 --> 00:06:23,400
One gas mask, black.
24
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,400
One half bag of mixed nuts.
25
00:06:37,333 --> 00:06:40,266
One empty bag of Sweet Pepper crisps.
26
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,233
One tube of lube, KY.
27
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,833
One can of shortening, Crisco.
28
00:07:04,866 --> 00:07:08,066
One hypodermic needle, used.
29
00:07:12,733 --> 00:07:17,333
Four hypodermic needles, unused.
30
00:07:22,266 --> 00:07:24,633
A pink polo shirt.
31
00:07:29,333 --> 00:07:33,533
One pair of sweat pants
with Feyenoord logo.
32
00:07:47,333 --> 00:07:49,133
Two letters.
33
00:07:52,500 --> 00:07:55,466
One handwritten letter.
34
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,500
'Peter, I don't think you know
how to love someone.
35
00:07:59,633 --> 00:08:01,433
But it was there.
36
00:08:01,533 --> 00:08:04,666
You were in me. That means something.
37
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,066
Remember I will always be there.
You can't erase me.
38
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,000
Hans.'
39
00:08:14,633 --> 00:08:16,833
One printed letter.
40
00:08:17,933 --> 00:08:19,733
'To my master Peter.
41
00:08:19,866 --> 00:08:25,100
I, Hans Jonkers, get a kick from being
the poz whore to my master.
42
00:08:25,233 --> 00:08:31,666
I now have the most wild, hot and
dirty sex, unlike before I was infected.
43
00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,266
I get a kick from rough bare fucking,
needles, poz blood, and piss.
44
00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:42,000
I have knowingly infected my master
and others as well.
45
00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:47,600
Like Guido, Paul, Wilfred, Michel, Tom...
46
00:08:47,699 --> 00:08:50,500
Guido and maybe Max.
47
00:08:50,633 --> 00:08:54,533
Most of the guest were drugged by me,
using GHB...
48
00:08:54,666 --> 00:08:58,400
and I then injected them
with my own poz blood.
49
00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:02,733
The bastards got what they asked for. Yeah.
50
00:09:02,866 --> 00:09:05,400
31-12-2006.
51
00:09:15,533 --> 00:09:17,300
Two DVDs.
52
00:09:17,433 --> 00:09:20,100
Fireplace. Boys Juice.
53
00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:39,600
Three bottles of GHB,
two hundred and fifty millilitres each.
54
00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:51,866
One empty rosé wine bottle, Kaapse Pracht.
55
00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,066
Three empty beer cans, Schultenbrau.
56
00:10:08,433 --> 00:10:11,466
Three empty Cola cans.
57
00:10:17,933 --> 00:10:21,266
One string of anal beads, small.
58
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,066
One string of anal beads, large.
59
00:10:34,833 --> 00:10:37,433
One gramme of cannabis.
60
00:10:39,233 --> 00:10:43,000
And one pack of large cigarette paper.
61
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,866
2.3 kilogrammes of XTC pills.
62
00:11:05,433 --> 00:11:07,233
Pink.
63
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,466
One pair of grey boxer shorts.
64
00:11:20,433 --> 00:11:22,933
One red bath towel.
65
00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:31,800
One enema.
66
00:12:55,300 --> 00:12:58,533
I can't find it.
67
00:12:58,666 --> 00:13:01,633
Why are you fiddling on your phone?
68
00:13:01,733 --> 00:13:06,033
I'm trying to find something
and that takes time.
69
00:13:06,133 --> 00:13:10,433
What are you trying to find?
Maybe we know what it is.
70
00:13:10,533 --> 00:13:12,833
You do.
71
00:13:12,933 --> 00:13:16,400
- What?
- What we talked about yesterday.
72
00:13:20,866 --> 00:13:24,200
- This isn't it.
- What? What are you searching?
73
00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:29,300
- About 'coming home'. Remember?
- It wasn't about that. It was about love.
74
00:13:29,433 --> 00:13:32,300
- Well... coming home.
- You two spoke of love?
75
00:13:32,433 --> 00:13:34,233
Yeah, just briefly.
76
00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:42,899
That... eh...
77
00:13:45,033 --> 00:13:48,233
That love is not being afraid to die.
78
00:13:48,333 --> 00:13:52,533
That you're not afraid...
not even afraid of death.
79
00:13:53,866 --> 00:13:58,633
- You call that 'coming home'?
- For lack of a better word.
80
00:13:58,733 --> 00:14:03,066
It's when it feels good.
That things are as they should be.
81
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:07,100
- 'Coming home'. Talk about boring...
- Thanks.
82
00:14:07,233 --> 00:14:08,699
Well, it is.
83
00:14:08,833 --> 00:14:13,300
I mean, like somewhere
you've never been before.
84
00:14:13,433 --> 00:14:18,133
Yet, you know: this is my home.
He is my home. I know it.
85
00:14:18,266 --> 00:14:21,000
But does he know it too?
86
00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:25,733
I don't know. Perhaps that doesn't matter.
87
00:14:25,866 --> 00:14:28,733
And then? Once you know this?
88
00:14:30,066 --> 00:14:33,300
I am an instrument being played.
89
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,300
- What instrument are you then?
- Not a recorder, I guess.
90
00:14:39,433 --> 00:14:41,699
I am a double bass.
91
00:14:41,833 --> 00:14:43,933
I lean against his chest.
92
00:14:44,066 --> 00:14:49,633
With his left hand he touches my nipples.
With his right hand he plays my sex.
93
00:14:49,733 --> 00:14:52,133
And that's how you come home?
94
00:14:52,266 --> 00:14:57,899
Together, we make music.
The result of our love is pure music.
95
00:14:58,033 --> 00:14:59,833
Love.
96
00:14:59,933 --> 00:15:03,266
And what if he suddenly drops you?
97
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,533
He wouldn't.
98
00:15:05,666 --> 00:15:07,466
He would never do that.
99
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,200
- How do you know?
- That's that trust.
100
00:15:11,300 --> 00:15:15,500
That's the 'coming home'.
He would never betray me.
101
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,000
Isn't that nice.
102
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,266
Ah, yes. Here it is. I found it.
103
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:31,100
'This is why a fertile being, when it
encounters beauty, feels happy and elated.
104
00:15:31,233 --> 00:15:35,600
It will blossom and
fertilise and reproduce.'
105
00:15:35,699 --> 00:15:40,100
'But when it is confronted with ugliness...
106
00:15:40,233 --> 00:15:42,699
it feels gloomy and sad.
107
00:15:44,333 --> 00:15:49,666
It turns away, it contracts,
it doesn't want to anymore.'
108
00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:56,899
Plato.
109
00:15:58,866 --> 00:16:04,933
'This is why all fertile beings
that are swollen with juice...
110
00:16:05,066 --> 00:16:09,633
become so very excited with beauty...
111
00:16:09,733 --> 00:16:12,833
as this beauty relieves all pain.'
112
00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:19,600
Which is not like hunger or thirst.
Then you know what you're missing.
113
00:16:19,699 --> 00:16:25,800
In this case, you won't know until you meet
'him'. Ah, it was him I was looking for.
114
00:16:28,833 --> 00:16:34,800
While the starved come crawling
to our house in droves, looking for...
115
00:16:34,899 --> 00:16:36,699
sex.
116
00:16:38,233 --> 00:16:40,300
For oblivion.
117
00:16:40,433 --> 00:16:43,533
Wanting out, no longer wanting to be.
118
00:16:43,666 --> 00:16:46,866
Wanting to be dead, without being dead.
119
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:48,500
How do you mean?
120
00:16:48,633 --> 00:16:53,300
No more compromise.
No more 'I am really just the neighbour'...
121
00:16:53,433 --> 00:16:58,899
or 'I am just an econometrics student'
or 'adjunct-clerk of the court'.
122
00:16:59,033 --> 00:17:02,400
- Is there such a job?
- There won't be then.
123
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:05,066
No more construction worker either.
124
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:10,000
Only his strong arms and thighs...
125
00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:13,066
his chest with hardened nipples.
126
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:18,800
His waiting for the gaze he catches
without having to look for it himself.
127
00:17:18,899 --> 00:17:24,300
- This is how the worker comes home?
- This is how the worker 'comes'.
128
00:17:24,433 --> 00:17:28,600
That's how I came home. To you.
129
00:17:28,699 --> 00:17:31,333
I wasn't even an 'I' anymore.
130
00:17:31,466 --> 00:17:33,933
I was nothing but tongue.
131
00:17:34,066 --> 00:17:36,133
Just licking.
132
00:17:36,266 --> 00:17:38,699
There was only anus...
133
00:17:38,833 --> 00:17:43,033
scrotum, a penis breast-feeding.
134
00:18:00,866 --> 00:18:06,066
- Meets the definition of a masochist.
- It sounds like a sect.
135
00:18:08,033 --> 00:18:10,233
It sounds like love.
136
00:18:13,033 --> 00:18:14,666
Love?
137
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,333
Love lives at the point of the tongue
that licks me.
138
00:18:18,466 --> 00:18:22,200
At the tips of the fingers that touch me.
139
00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:24,933
You say that then you no longer exist?
140
00:18:25,066 --> 00:18:30,300
That to you, love means
that you then no longer exist?
141
00:18:30,433 --> 00:18:33,400
That you no longer need to be 'I'?
142
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:36,000
No longer an'I'.
143
00:18:37,533 --> 00:18:42,100
Then I only 'am'.
Without knowing who, or why.
144
00:18:42,233 --> 00:18:44,400
Or where.
145
00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:50,300
I whirl blamelessly through an omnipotent
universe that exists only for me.
146
00:18:52,033 --> 00:18:54,233
But for you, this is...
147
00:18:55,500 --> 00:19:00,266
I only exist, I only 'am'...
148
00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,100
I only become an 'I'
through the gaze of the other.
149
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,899
Without an audience every actor is,
I am...
150
00:19:12,033 --> 00:19:18,066
nothing but a pathetic,
insignificant, scared little man.
151
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,699
Only with an audience I truly come to life.
152
00:19:21,833 --> 00:19:26,733
It is only through that
audience that 'I' exist.
153
00:19:26,866 --> 00:19:31,666
Then this 'I' changes into
what the audience wants me to be.
154
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,300
And that is...?
155
00:19:34,433 --> 00:19:39,100
It can be anything.
That's not for me to decide.
156
00:19:39,233 --> 00:19:43,600
I may be an emperor, or a devil.
157
00:19:43,699 --> 00:19:45,699
A diva.
158
00:19:45,833 --> 00:19:50,800
A construction worker,
an econometrics student.
159
00:19:50,899 --> 00:19:54,033
Or an adjunct-clerk to the court.
160
00:19:54,133 --> 00:19:58,066
Even if such a person doesn't exist...
161
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:02,600
I still become them.
Precisely because the audience wants it.
162
00:20:02,699 --> 00:20:07,100
So I give them that.
That is the power of love.
163
00:20:09,033 --> 00:20:13,466
And thus you become the universe
I am whirling through?
164
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,800
Where I come home?
165
00:20:18,233 --> 00:20:21,533
Yes. But it is you who decide...
166
00:20:21,666 --> 00:20:25,666
who or what I become.
You decide who you come home to.
167
00:20:26,899 --> 00:20:30,733
'Those trained in love to this degree...
168
00:20:30,866 --> 00:20:35,466
and who have seen, in the right order,
all this beauty...
169
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:41,100
will, when the initiation
into the mysteries of love is nigh...
170
00:20:41,233 --> 00:20:46,800
then suddenly see a vision rise.
A wondrous beauty.
171
00:20:46,899 --> 00:20:52,233
And it is this beauty that all his
previous efforts were aimed at.'
172
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,000
- Is that what you mean?
- I guess.
173
00:20:58,100 --> 00:21:04,200
I embody that vision.
I embody that wondrous beauty.
174
00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:07,133
I embody anything you want.
175
00:21:09,833 --> 00:21:12,333
Sounds megalomaniacal.
176
00:21:12,466 --> 00:21:17,033
Meets all the criteria of
a narcissistic disorder.
177
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,800
Love?
178
00:21:26,066 --> 00:21:27,866
No?
179
00:21:28,733 --> 00:21:31,100
Perhaps.
180
00:21:31,233 --> 00:21:33,833
If that's what it is to you.
181
00:21:33,933 --> 00:21:36,800
It's different for everyone, right?
182
00:21:36,899 --> 00:21:40,466
In my case, love is...
183
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,033
that I get your olives.
184
00:21:43,133 --> 00:21:48,066
- And your shit, and your...
- Olives? I never eat olives.
185
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,400
That's why I get them.
186
00:21:51,233 --> 00:21:56,466
I cherish the leftovers from your desires.
I am the mediator.
187
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,866
- The bookkeeper.
- And that's love?
188
00:22:01,833 --> 00:22:08,000
I am the air that vibrates so the music
is heard and the words are understood.
189
00:22:10,833 --> 00:22:15,533
I am the nerve that enables the skin
to feel a caress.
190
00:22:15,666 --> 00:22:18,699
I am the bed you make love on.
191
00:22:19,933 --> 00:22:23,333
I am the genitals you make love with.
192
00:22:25,866 --> 00:22:29,633
I sacrifice myself for your happiness.
193
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,633
And that's what makes me happy.
194
00:22:33,733 --> 00:22:35,933
And that is love.
195
00:22:37,233 --> 00:22:39,266
Are you happy?
196
00:22:42,266 --> 00:22:44,466
Why not?
197
00:22:47,133 --> 00:22:49,800
Is Wim saying that he is impotent?
198
00:22:51,100 --> 00:22:54,699
A freeloader, a voyeur...
199
00:22:57,033 --> 00:23:00,500
an opportunist, a pimp.
200
00:23:00,633 --> 00:23:03,633
A loser, who will never admit it.
201
00:23:04,699 --> 00:23:08,433
- It sounds ridiculous.
- Desperate.
202
00:23:08,533 --> 00:23:11,500
- It sounds like love.
- Love?
203
00:23:11,633 --> 00:23:13,699
You call that love?
204
00:23:13,833 --> 00:23:16,500
'Sounds' like love, I said.
205
00:23:18,899 --> 00:23:22,600
'That he, together with others or another,
or alone...
206
00:23:22,699 --> 00:23:26,500
has caused, deliberately
and intentionally...
207
00:23:26,633 --> 00:23:30,033
grievous bodily harm, being HIV infection.'
208
00:23:30,133 --> 00:23:34,500
'By together with one
or more accomplices...
209
00:23:34,633 --> 00:23:40,033
injecting another person,
knowingly and after deliberation...
210
00:23:40,133 --> 00:23:46,833
with HIV-infected blood in the anus
or buttock and or in the anal cavity...
211
00:23:46,933 --> 00:23:50,866
and or near the anus;
said HIV-infected blood...
212
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:56,000
being a substance hazardous
to life or health.'
213
00:23:57,666 --> 00:24:01,933
If you have known love,
you'll want to share it.
214
00:24:03,233 --> 00:24:05,433
You have to share it.
215
00:24:10,666 --> 00:24:16,300
'At first, if his guide points him
in the right direction...
216
00:24:16,433 --> 00:24:21,733
he will be in love with just one body
and bring forth exquisite words in it.
217
00:24:21,866 --> 00:24:27,266
Then he will realise that the beauty
of one arbitrary body...
218
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,400
is related to that of another.
219
00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:37,933
And that it would be very foolish,
when chasing external beauty...
220
00:24:38,066 --> 00:24:43,200
not to regard the beauty of all bodies
as one and the same.'
221
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:46,400
That would be very foolish.
222
00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:49,100
Indeed.
223
00:24:49,233 --> 00:24:55,899
Bring everyone unto us. This is my house.
This is our house.
224
00:25:02,866 --> 00:25:05,433
And come they did.
225
00:25:05,533 --> 00:25:10,833
Of course they came.
Who wouldn't, to such a house?
226
00:25:10,933 --> 00:25:17,233
- But they didn't know what they did there?
- They knew very well what they were after.
227
00:25:18,433 --> 00:25:21,833
This is about sexual acts...
228
00:25:21,933 --> 00:25:28,699
performed with someone he knew
to be unconscious or less conscious...
229
00:25:28,833 --> 00:25:31,400
or physically incapacitated.
230
00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:36,600
'Conditions between alertness
and complete oblivion...
231
00:25:36,699 --> 00:25:42,866
in which this person cannot within reason
be expected to resist sexual advances.'
232
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,733
I don't deny that.
233
00:25:46,866 --> 00:25:50,500
Plaintiff M had voluntarily taken XTC.
234
00:25:50,633 --> 00:25:54,833
He felt very guilty
that because of his condition...
235
00:25:54,933 --> 00:25:59,300
he couldn't remember
whether or not he had 'cooperated'.
236
00:25:59,433 --> 00:26:03,233
During the investigation,
he gave different versions...
237
00:26:03,333 --> 00:26:07,800
of the positions they took
during double penetration.
238
00:26:07,899 --> 00:26:13,533
Yes, and XTC and alcohol were consumed
at these parties. And GHB.
239
00:26:13,666 --> 00:26:19,699
Voluntarily or not, making some plaintiffs
'lose' entire episodes of that night.
240
00:26:19,833 --> 00:26:22,266
Others remember whole pieces.
241
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,899
- That's not what it's about.
- About what then?
242
00:27:30,699 --> 00:27:33,100
What is it about then?
243
00:27:34,733 --> 00:27:42,466
'But for all other beauties, including
love, the following holds true:
244
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,266
they come and they go.'
245
00:27:47,033 --> 00:27:48,833
Plato.
246
00:27:53,133 --> 00:27:58,933
Love may deny death,
but even love doesn't cancel death.
247
00:27:59,066 --> 00:28:01,733
Only one thing can do so.
248
00:28:01,866 --> 00:28:03,833
True beauty.
249
00:28:03,933 --> 00:28:09,033
- So you mean...
- Being horny, desperate.
250
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,433
By that I mean death.
251
00:28:12,533 --> 00:28:14,600
So you admit it?
252
00:28:17,066 --> 00:28:23,033
I admit that love is an
attempt to deny death.
253
00:28:23,133 --> 00:28:25,733
An attempt to cancel death.
254
00:28:25,866 --> 00:28:29,533
And I admit that that is a fallacy.
255
00:28:32,899 --> 00:28:35,500
So love only leads to death?
256
00:28:36,733 --> 00:28:39,899
So love can only be criminal.
257
00:28:52,066 --> 00:28:54,033
Love is...
258
00:28:58,333 --> 00:29:00,533
Love is lethal.
259
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,200
But never criminal.
260
00:29:05,133 --> 00:29:08,133
True love is simply without measure.
261
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:26,600
Well...
262
00:30:27,833 --> 00:30:32,600
We were on the bed in my bedroom.
He was on top of me.
263
00:30:35,066 --> 00:30:37,433
He was fucking me.
264
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,800
And at some point I wanted him to stop,
but he didn't.
265
00:30:42,899 --> 00:30:44,933
And...
266
00:30:46,233 --> 00:30:52,200
He kept at it and held me down, on the bed.
He was choking me.
267
00:30:52,300 --> 00:30:55,100
'I will kill you if you don't obey.'
268
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,333
And that... well...
269
00:31:09,433 --> 00:31:13,266
It really upset me and it...
270
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,866
Yes, well...
271
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,466
It still upsets me.
272
00:31:29,699 --> 00:31:36,899
You just said that what you liked
about Peter was his roughness.
273
00:31:37,033 --> 00:31:40,533
Yes, but up to a certain point.
274
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,699
And when one reaches one's limit,
the other should stop.
275
00:31:48,833 --> 00:31:53,100
No matter how exciting and rough
sex may be, there are limits.
276
00:31:53,233 --> 00:31:57,300
Like, I mean, you can't just
beat somebody up.
277
00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:02,266
So, in spite of...
278
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,066
how it should be...
279
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:11,466
in such a dominant-submissive
relationship...
280
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,133
the submissive one always sets the limit.
281
00:32:15,266 --> 00:32:19,800
And it is he who controls the game,
as it were.
282
00:32:23,833 --> 00:32:28,300
If you could choose between
being victim or perpetrator...
283
00:32:28,433 --> 00:32:31,066
which would you choose?
284
00:32:43,699 --> 00:32:49,233
You can't... It's two answers, really,
that I'd like to give.
285
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:57,666
The first answer would be 'victim',
because then I would be innocent.
286
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,133
On the other hand, I
would say 'perpetrator'.
287
00:33:03,266 --> 00:33:07,833
Because then I would have had control
over what I did.
288
00:33:07,933 --> 00:33:11,866
So you see, it's not either/or.
289
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:17,266
There are pros and cons to both roles.
290
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,266
- When did you first meet Peter?
- On 18 September 2004.
291
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:29,500
- Where was this?
- On a dating site.
292
00:33:29,633 --> 00:33:33,833
That sounds respectable,
but it was a site for sex dates.
293
00:33:33,933 --> 00:33:41,200
- Then he and Wim came to my place.
- Wim was a friend of his?
294
00:33:41,300 --> 00:33:46,066
That's what he said, but Wim,
for a long time, had been his...
295
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,066
I don't exactly know what. Something.
296
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,200
More than just a friend.
They have been living together for ages.
297
00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:57,933
But they pretended
they were just 'friends'.
298
00:33:59,066 --> 00:34:02,500
And what happened on this date?
299
00:34:02,633 --> 00:34:05,933
We met at my place to have sex.
300
00:34:06,066 --> 00:34:08,466
So we did. It was very good.
301
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,100
So, we exchanged phone numbers.
302
00:34:15,699 --> 00:34:20,933
We felt like meeting up again.
That was the first date.
303
00:34:21,066 --> 00:34:24,533
And the next date, was that soon after?
304
00:34:26,333 --> 00:34:31,133
Yes, within a few days, I think. A week.
I don't remember exactly.
305
00:34:31,266 --> 00:34:36,233
- Always the three of you? With Wim?
- No.
306
00:34:36,333 --> 00:34:41,833
I made it clear I liked
him better than Wim.
307
00:34:41,933 --> 00:34:46,266
Wim just wasn't my type, as a sex partner.
308
00:34:47,533 --> 00:34:55,100
When did you get the idea to invite others?
How did that happen?
309
00:34:55,233 --> 00:34:59,633
Well, that was mainly Peter's idea.
310
00:35:01,699 --> 00:35:08,100
I thought just the two of us was okay,
but that wasn't enough for him.
311
00:35:08,233 --> 00:35:14,033
He'd check the chat box to see if anyone
was around. That sort of thing.
312
00:35:15,133 --> 00:35:19,733
How did that make you feel,
not being enough?
313
00:35:19,866 --> 00:35:23,100
Well, ehm...
314
00:35:25,233 --> 00:35:30,800
It didn't really depress me or anything.
315
00:35:30,899 --> 00:35:35,433
But I didn't feel the need
to always have others join us.
316
00:35:37,300 --> 00:35:41,133
How did you prepare,
when there were others?
317
00:35:41,266 --> 00:35:45,633
We'd dim the lights and put a
large mattress in the living room.
318
00:35:45,733 --> 00:35:51,333
Some drinks, and everyone knows
why they are there, so...
319
00:35:51,466 --> 00:35:54,533
- Why were they there?
- For sex.
320
00:35:57,633 --> 00:36:02,033
A great 'advantage' of a chat box...
321
00:36:02,133 --> 00:36:09,233
is that people can say what they like or
not, so you can choose who to meet or not.
322
00:36:09,333 --> 00:36:14,100
And was it made clear
that there would be unsafe sex?
323
00:36:14,233 --> 00:36:16,533
That... Yes.
324
00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:24,899
About those parties. What were they like?
How many people came?
325
00:36:25,033 --> 00:36:32,066
- Were there friends you already knew?
- No. Peter knew some of them.
326
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:37,800
They would join us sometimes.
327
00:36:37,899 --> 00:36:39,466
You know.
328
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,500
There might be three of us, or five.
329
00:36:44,633 --> 00:36:50,233
Or two, and three came in, left again,
and four would come in. Like that.
330
00:36:50,333 --> 00:36:54,500
- Is that why it went on for so long?
- Yes.
331
00:36:56,066 --> 00:37:02,733
Usually from about 9 PM to 4 AM,
or whatever.
332
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:11,433
So some would be there at 9 PM
and leave sooner?
333
00:37:11,533 --> 00:37:15,266
Yes, as soon as they were 'finished'.
334
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,866
And some would stay all night.
335
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,833
And was it like an orgy all the time or...?
336
00:37:23,933 --> 00:37:30,066
No, I mean, it's physically impossible
to have sex for six hours...
337
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,133
so there were breaks and, you know.
338
00:37:34,266 --> 00:37:38,866
You know, at some point
we were with so many...
339
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:44,333
that we didn't even know anymore
what part belonged to whom.
340
00:37:47,899 --> 00:37:52,133
And that was also like 'hot'? Like...
341
00:37:52,266 --> 00:37:57,866
Yes, but also confusing. If you no longer
know what belongs to whom...
342
00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:59,933
or what their names are.
343
00:38:00,066 --> 00:38:04,100
It sounds vulgar, and I guess it was.
344
00:38:06,133 --> 00:38:08,866
Vulgar... I don't know.
345
00:38:10,133 --> 00:38:13,400
And when was the first time
something occurred...
346
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:17,033
that you later felt was not okay at all?
347
00:38:18,033 --> 00:38:20,833
The first time it concerned myself.
348
00:38:20,933 --> 00:38:25,200
When he secretly spiked my drink with GHB.
349
00:38:28,866 --> 00:38:33,800
Can you remember when you yourself
had the feeling...
350
00:38:33,899 --> 00:38:37,200
you did something that was not okay?
351
00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:55,033
One thing I never felt good about...
352
00:38:55,133 --> 00:39:00,800
is that when I knew I had HIV,
I didn't tell others.
353
00:39:02,533 --> 00:39:09,800
- Would people say that in a chat box?
- No, only that the sex was unsafe.
354
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,333
But it's also, like...
355
00:39:18,500 --> 00:39:22,266
I mean, I did feel...
356
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:27,899
that the text in the ads were such
that anyone could know...
357
00:39:28,033 --> 00:39:30,200
or at least suspect...
358
00:39:30,300 --> 00:39:36,066
that with unsafe sex, and drugs,
and other people...
359
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:41,200
that there was an obvious risk of HIV.
360
00:39:41,300 --> 00:39:44,300
It wasn't always with the same people.
361
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,699
And, ehm...
362
00:39:50,666 --> 00:39:52,866
You also think...
363
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:59,033
that people who want to do everything safe
and are very afraid of HIV...
364
00:39:59,133 --> 00:40:02,533
would not respond to that kind of ad.
365
00:40:02,666 --> 00:40:07,666
They would respond to
'hugging-by-candlelight' ads.
366
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,833
And if these things
are mentioned so explicitly...
367
00:40:12,933 --> 00:40:16,533
then you are aware of where you're going.
368
00:40:16,666 --> 00:40:24,200
So, the naivety as portrayed
by some of those who pressed charges...
369
00:40:24,300 --> 00:40:28,699
did irritate me sometimes.
Then I think 'Come on...
370
00:40:28,833 --> 00:40:34,266
you know what you responded to,
what will happen, it's all in the ad...
371
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:40,066
and you're still surprised?'
I've always found that a little odd.
372
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:45,633
It's a bit contradictory, as you first said
that was what you felt guilty about.
373
00:40:45,733 --> 00:40:48,933
I'd rather have told people.
374
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,800
But I didn't.
375
00:40:57,466 --> 00:41:00,866
You've been convicted...
376
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,800
of assault. What type of assault?
377
00:41:03,899 --> 00:41:05,699
It was...
378
00:41:08,633 --> 00:41:11,033
Phew, that's a hard question.
379
00:41:11,133 --> 00:41:16,200
I mean, in the sense
that it's hard to say it out loud.
380
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:21,733
It was injecting people
with HIV-infected blood.
381
00:41:23,733 --> 00:41:29,833
- Do you remember having done that?
- Yes. Unfortunately.
382
00:41:34,300 --> 00:41:36,466
How did you do this?
383
00:41:55,866 --> 00:42:00,699
Peter would take blood from my arm.
384
00:42:04,533 --> 00:42:10,400
Peter would stick the syringe into
someone's buttock and I would empty it.
385
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,066
Were they conscious when this took place?
386
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:23,933
No, Peter always made sure
they were heavily drugged.
387
00:42:25,533 --> 00:42:27,333
So was I.
388
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,666
So you were intoxicated yourself...
389
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:41,699
but you do remember
how you felt at the time.
390
00:42:43,233 --> 00:42:46,133
What did you feel?
391
00:42:46,266 --> 00:42:48,466
The same I still feel today.
392
00:43:02,133 --> 00:43:05,133
It's unimaginable I ever did this.
393
00:43:09,666 --> 00:43:11,666
Terribly...
394
00:43:14,933 --> 00:43:17,266
low and mean.
395
00:43:24,033 --> 00:43:28,899
Painful, not only for the victims,
but for myself as well.
396
00:43:29,033 --> 00:43:31,833
I've damaged myself enormously.
397
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,266
- Hello.
- Hi. Peter.
398
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,000
I'm Tim.
399
00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:41,100
- Did you find us easily?
- Yes, no problem.
400
00:44:41,233 --> 00:44:43,600
- I'll take your coat.
- Thanks.
401
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,000
Wow.
402
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,100
Quite a view you have from here.
403
00:44:57,233 --> 00:45:00,233
There's the village.
Did you see the swimming pool?
404
00:45:00,333 --> 00:45:04,533
- Yes, I saw it. And those plants?
- Potatoes.
405
00:45:04,666 --> 00:45:07,266
- Coffee?
- Yes, please.
406
00:45:12,266 --> 00:45:14,866
Have you lived here long?
407
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,733
I lived here with Wim a couple of years,
before this whole thing.
408
00:45:23,899 --> 00:45:26,699
We've always been quite content here.
409
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,333
Wim couldn't be here today?
410
00:45:33,466 --> 00:45:35,866
He had to go to work.
411
00:45:46,833 --> 00:45:49,333
Where did Wim put the coffee?
412
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,233
I'm still finding my way around here.
413
00:45:56,333 --> 00:45:59,233
Wim is a bit chaotic.
414
00:46:01,133 --> 00:46:03,699
- You like it strong?
- Yes, please.
415
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:14,866
- You like to cook? Being in the kitchen?
- I do the cooking. Wim seldom does.
416
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,633
What is your signature dish?
What are you good at?
417
00:46:18,733 --> 00:46:21,133
All pastas, basically.
418
00:46:22,233 --> 00:46:24,266
Pasta, pasta.
419
00:46:31,899 --> 00:46:35,733
- I'll whip it up for you.
- That's very kind of you.
420
00:46:38,699 --> 00:46:43,533
- You know this system?
- I think I've seen it before, yes.
421
00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:52,100
- Shall we go to the living?
- Can I help?
422
00:46:52,233 --> 00:46:54,100
No, I've got it.
423
00:46:58,899 --> 00:47:02,933
What is the first thing you did
upon your release?
424
00:47:03,066 --> 00:47:06,266
I was very glad, of course.
425
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,633
Wim cooked dinner for me, that first night.
426
00:47:10,733 --> 00:47:15,633
The second day I didn't want to go out.
I was afraid of other people.
427
00:47:15,733 --> 00:47:23,200
But yesterday I went over to the neighbour
and it was okay to see her again.
428
00:47:23,300 --> 00:47:28,933
- Is she a friend of yours?
- No, just a good neighbour.
429
00:47:29,066 --> 00:47:33,833
And she supported Wim,
which I think is nice of her.
430
00:47:33,933 --> 00:47:41,033
Unlike other neighbours, who didn't respond
well, but this one was there.
431
00:47:41,133 --> 00:47:43,400
They didn't respond well?
432
00:47:43,500 --> 00:47:48,466
Because of what happened.
I think they are afraid of us.
433
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,333
I can't solve that.
434
00:47:51,466 --> 00:47:57,466
- Why not?
- Because it's nobody's business.
435
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:02,800
That's the thing. All these other people
didn't understand it at all.
436
00:48:02,899 --> 00:48:05,066
- All these people...
- Out there.
437
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,133
Like those 14 people who pressed charges?
438
00:48:09,266 --> 00:48:13,899
Yes, that's what we really
should be talking about.
439
00:48:17,300 --> 00:48:21,333
They assumed the role of victims.
440
00:48:21,466 --> 00:48:25,666
And I don't think...
441
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,833
that I did them as much harm
as what I'm blamed for.
442
00:48:32,066 --> 00:48:36,500
What can you accept
of the accusations made against you?
443
00:48:36,633 --> 00:48:40,699
Maybe it wasn't the right thing to do...
444
00:48:40,833 --> 00:48:44,100
and certain things I shouldn't have done.
445
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,866
But I didn't need to be locked up.
446
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,666
Can you give an example
of what you shouldn't have done?
447
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,833
Yes, well...
448
00:48:54,933 --> 00:49:00,400
I've given people drugs,
but they wanted to take drugs.
449
00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:03,800
Then you know something will change.
450
00:49:06,033 --> 00:49:10,233
Things have happened.
They call it rape, but I don't.
451
00:49:10,333 --> 00:49:14,933
Not when they surrender themselves to me.
Does that make me a rapist?
452
00:49:15,066 --> 00:49:20,666
I didn't drag anyone from the street
into my car and raped them.
453
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:26,500
They came to my house,
they wanted to join the party.
454
00:49:26,633 --> 00:49:32,533
In retrospect I find it quite beautiful,
not a criminal thing at all.
455
00:49:32,666 --> 00:49:35,933
What happened there was full of love,
I think.
456
00:49:36,066 --> 00:49:39,000
That's why I wanted to do this interview.
457
00:49:44,333 --> 00:49:51,333
Love and sex. Do they go together well
or do you see them as separate entities?
458
00:49:52,666 --> 00:49:54,533
Well, I...
459
00:49:54,666 --> 00:50:00,133
Yes, I see them as separate things.
You shouldn't confuse the two.
460
00:50:01,833 --> 00:50:04,866
Those parties were not about love.
461
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:10,400
They were about sex,
which is a beautiful thing...
462
00:50:12,500 --> 00:50:15,533
but it's different from love. So...
463
00:50:15,666 --> 00:50:21,200
If you confuse the two,
it's not fun anymore, I think.
464
00:50:26,100 --> 00:50:31,400
At these parties you
were having unsafe sex.
465
00:50:31,500 --> 00:50:35,933
Whether voluntary or not,
we'll leave that out for now.
466
00:50:36,066 --> 00:50:41,500
What does it mean for you
to be HIV-positive?
467
00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:45,333
Well, I...
468
00:50:46,533 --> 00:50:48,533
Yes, well...
469
00:50:50,266 --> 00:50:53,266
In a way, it felt like
a nice certification.
470
00:50:54,400 --> 00:51:00,899
I mean, it is a form of belonging
with others who are the same.
471
00:51:01,033 --> 00:51:05,066
I think there is a certain beauty in that.
472
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:08,433
I, ehm...
473
00:51:08,533 --> 00:51:13,600
I enjoyed throwing those parties
for people who all had HIV.
474
00:51:13,699 --> 00:51:18,833
And even if not all of them
were HIV-positive...
475
00:51:18,933 --> 00:51:22,699
I always felt it would be great
if everyone was.
476
00:51:22,833 --> 00:51:26,899
Because then everything was possible.
477
00:51:28,066 --> 00:51:32,300
What I gathered from the court reports...
478
00:51:32,433 --> 00:51:38,466
was that you and Hans also often said
that safe sex was practiced.
479
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:43,133
Yes. If you are both HIV-positive,
then it's safe, right?
480
00:51:43,266 --> 00:51:49,100
But from what I read, you also claimed
not to have HIV and that therefore...
481
00:51:49,233 --> 00:51:56,100
- there was no risk of infection.
- That's another bogus story.
482
00:51:56,233 --> 00:52:00,933
- Unproven at that.
- Why would people say that?
483
00:52:01,066 --> 00:52:07,033
Some people see themselves as victims
and present arguments...
484
00:52:07,133 --> 00:52:12,233
to make us the perpetrators,
but I haven't done anything.
485
00:52:12,333 --> 00:52:15,933
- You see?
- Hm, I don't know.
486
00:52:16,066 --> 00:52:18,266
It was their own choice.
487
00:52:20,100 --> 00:52:25,500
Blood was part of your sexual activities.
What was that about?
488
00:52:25,633 --> 00:52:28,066
Blood is a very vital thing.
489
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,833
Making contact through blood
is a form of fusion.
490
00:52:32,933 --> 00:52:36,600
A sort of coming together.
A symbiotic desire.
491
00:52:36,699 --> 00:52:40,233
And we felt good about that.
492
00:52:40,333 --> 00:52:45,400
Not as a dangerous thing, just smearing
each other's blood on your skin.
493
00:52:47,699 --> 00:52:52,699
And if people objected, it didn't happen?
It was never against their will?
494
00:52:52,833 --> 00:52:54,866
No.
495
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,699
- And this is...?
- Dana.
496
00:52:58,833 --> 00:53:06,233
- Have you had her for a long time?
- She came here while I was in prison.
497
00:53:06,333 --> 00:53:11,066
Wim felt a bit lonely.
We used to have two Labradors.
498
00:53:12,066 --> 00:53:16,466
I loved them.
This dog doesn't mean that much to me.
499
00:53:18,066 --> 00:53:22,333
So, the parties you organised...
500
00:53:22,466 --> 00:53:25,433
did they take place in this house?
501
00:53:25,533 --> 00:53:28,699
No, mostly at Hans' place.
502
00:53:28,833 --> 00:53:31,433
In Colijn Street. Upstairs.
503
00:53:33,033 --> 00:53:39,066
Can you tell me more? I mean, how did...
504
00:53:40,333 --> 00:53:46,699
I don't think you should mention the street
name. It's just a detail, but...
505
00:53:46,833 --> 00:53:50,899
So, we'll just do this
bit again from the start.
506
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:58,833
So, the parties you organised,
did they take place in this house?
507
00:53:58,933 --> 00:54:02,833
No, at Hans' place. Upstairs.
508
00:54:02,933 --> 00:54:06,333
What were these parties like?
509
00:54:06,466 --> 00:54:10,733
Were they on weekends or on weekdays?
510
00:54:10,866 --> 00:54:17,233
It varied. We would plan evenings
and receive people.
511
00:54:17,333 --> 00:54:22,633
Many people at the same time?
Or also with just three or four people?
512
00:54:22,733 --> 00:54:25,633
Well, the more the better.
513
00:54:25,733 --> 00:54:29,066
Ideally, there would
be 10, 12 or 15 people.
514
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,233
- Sorry, cut. It's a small flat, so...
- That's impossible?
515
00:54:33,333 --> 00:54:38,200
- Eight would be the maximum.
- Okay, let's do it again.
516
00:54:38,300 --> 00:54:41,466
Ehm... We'll just do it again, right?
517
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:47,433
So, these sex parties, were they held here,
in this house?
518
00:54:47,533 --> 00:54:51,133
No, at Hans' place. Upstairs.
519
00:54:51,266 --> 00:54:54,699
What were these parties like?
520
00:54:54,833 --> 00:54:59,666
There would be 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8 people.
Tops.
521
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:08,300
People would come in, we served drinks,
used some substances.
522
00:55:08,433 --> 00:55:12,633
There was music, one
thing led to another...
523
00:55:12,733 --> 00:55:17,333
and people would start something.
Others would join in or not.
524
00:55:17,466 --> 00:55:19,866
It was quite spontaneous.
525
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:26,033
I kept an eye on things, to make sure
everyone was at ease.
526
00:55:26,133 --> 00:55:29,699
At some point I would join in myself.
527
00:55:29,833 --> 00:55:33,699
It just developed very nicely.
528
00:56:33,319 --> 00:56:39,000
I studied plant biology. And I was
always interested in plant diseases.
529
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:44,119
I was fascinated that plants
can also get sick like people do.
530
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:49,879
And viruses was the most
interesting of all.
531
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:56,680
Because when a plant is infected
with a virus you can't save it anymore.
532
00:57:06,639 --> 00:57:12,280
As a student, I found it really amazing,
it's a thing that you don't see.
533
00:57:13,879 --> 00:57:19,519
It's so tiny. You need a very
special microscope in order to see a virus.
534
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,439
And it needs the plant, to grow.
535
00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,879
The virus gets into its genome...
536
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:33,639
and then it starts reproducing together
with the plants cells.
537
00:57:33,759 --> 00:57:37,800
It has to be inside the
plant in order to live.
538
00:57:39,039 --> 00:57:44,639
Of course, they cause these heavy
symptoms and the plant may die in the end.
539
00:57:45,176 --> 00:57:51,319
But what you can do is inject
lighter version of the virus...
540
00:57:51,439 --> 00:57:56,079
which doesn't cause as much,
so heavy symptoms.
541
00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:01,920
The plant accepts it, the symptoms
aren't as heavy and it can grow...
542
00:58:02,039 --> 00:58:04,600
quite naturally. Like it would be.
543
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:11,000
When the real heavy virus comes,
the plant is already immune.
544
00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:14,400
It's actually the same
like you do with humans.
545
00:58:14,519 --> 00:58:18,759
But actually the purpose of this
virus is not to kill the host.
546
00:58:18,879 --> 00:58:23,639
Because if you kill the host,
you cannot live further yourself.
547
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:32,119
But by doing that, then it can find
the one plant that will survive
548
00:58:32,239 --> 00:58:37,239
and it will carry on the virus without
giving any symptoms from the plant.
549
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,319
They actually live together.
550
00:58:40,439 --> 00:58:47,360
- So a virus would be an organism?
- Yes, then it becomes part of this...
551
00:58:47,479 --> 00:58:54,039
collaboration, this system of the
plant and the pathogen working together.
552
00:58:56,119 --> 00:59:00,119
But at the beginning of this process
it looks quite severe.
553
00:59:00,239 --> 00:59:03,159
It looks like the virus is the bad guy.
554
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,800
But I don't believe in
good guys and bad guys.
555
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:12,959
I like to think all works,
in order to come down to...
556
00:59:13,079 --> 00:59:16,680
living together. And being-together.
557
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:19,280
Does the plant also need the virus?
558
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:23,639
Yes, it's funny. The virus and the tulips
559
00:59:23,759 --> 00:59:27,319
it changes the colour of the flower.
560
00:59:27,439 --> 00:59:31,959
And that can be very attractive for insects
for example.
561
00:59:32,079 --> 00:59:38,360
Or it can get a different
kind of light to the flower
562
00:59:38,479 --> 00:59:40,680
that can help the flower to grow.
563
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:46,920
So it does have a benefit. It just looks
different from what we're used to seeing.
564
00:59:47,039 --> 00:59:51,039
Like when you see a tulip,
you always expect it to be yellow.
565
00:59:51,159 --> 00:59:55,920
So when the virus comes in
and it turns the tulip red
566
00:59:56,039 --> 00:59:59,560
it's for us, not good.
567
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:02,800
It's not for the tulip itself.
568
01:00:04,119 --> 01:00:08,200
Like when you're a grower of yellow
tulips, you want to have all of them yellow.
569
01:00:08,319 --> 01:00:13,759
Because if you have some red ones inbetween
them the flower show will not buy your bud.
570
01:00:13,879 --> 01:00:19,800
So then the virus is the bad guy
in that case.
571
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:26,839
For this experiment I
need an infected flower...
572
01:00:26,959 --> 01:00:31,400
and a mortar and
pestle to grind the petal.
573
01:00:31,519 --> 01:00:37,280
I will use this buffer which
keeps the virus alive.
574
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:43,519
I'll cut the petal with a razor.
575
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:51,039
And then after the
grinding I will use the syringe to inject...
576
01:00:51,159 --> 01:00:56,119
this inoculum in the
bulb of the healthy flower.
577
01:01:06,519 --> 01:01:08,720
And now I just press
578
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:15,200
the petal so the cells are open.
579
01:01:17,639 --> 01:01:22,000
And the virus is released in the liquid.
580
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:32,600
Would flowers be trying to
infect their neighbour flowers?
581
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:38,439
No, it will happen because
they are close to each other.
582
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:46,280
But then the plant, when it's infected,
it will communicate that to the others
583
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:50,360
to let them know there is
infection close-by.
584
01:01:50,479 --> 01:01:56,239
The plants around it will start
inducing their immune systems.
585
01:01:56,360 --> 01:02:01,400
So that they can be prepared for
the disease coming.
586
01:02:01,519 --> 01:02:04,560
So there is a different
kind of communication.
587
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:06,759
How does it work, that communication?
588
01:02:06,879 --> 01:02:13,920
Either volatile molecules. They produce
in the air when the plant is infected.
589
01:02:14,039 --> 01:02:16,759
And it can also be through the roots.
590
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:24,839
And the others pick it up,
it's all a chemical reaction.
591
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:31,560
So you were fascinated by viruses,
but do you remember the first time you got sick?
592
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:38,400
I always remember, also
about when I was 10 or 12 years old.
593
01:02:38,519 --> 01:02:42,239
Around that age when
the flu is quite heavy.
594
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,759
And you need to stay in bed,
and you sweat a lot
595
01:02:45,879 --> 01:02:52,000
and it's kind of good and bad
thing at the same time.
596
01:02:52,119 --> 01:02:58,239
You don't want to be there but
all this high temperature and the sweat
597
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:03,039
and being under the blankets
it brings a certain kind of comfort.
598
01:03:04,439 --> 01:03:09,560
I guess also you feel
your body being alive.
599
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,839
It's the moments you actually feel
600
01:03:12,959 --> 01:03:18,879
that there is more than your
skin covering your bones.
601
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:25,000
There is things inside you living
and reacting.
602
01:03:26,239 --> 01:03:31,519
It's a sense of being alive,
I don't know, being sick.
603
01:04:01,479 --> 01:04:07,200
Do you remember any other
experiences with viruses?
604
01:04:09,439 --> 01:04:11,400
I don't remember.
605
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:17,159
We talked about getting infected
606
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:21,360
like as a human getting
infected by someone.
607
01:04:21,479 --> 01:04:24,879
And what I find fascinating
in that idea
608
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:28,479
is that I find it a way of bonding.
609
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:34,720
It's like when you were kids and
you would... I don't know if you did that
610
01:04:34,839 --> 01:04:37,360
Like you would be, how do you call it?
611
01:04:37,479 --> 01:04:43,479
A blood friend with someone? When you
cut your fingers and mix your blood...
612
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:46,720
To become like brothers or sisters.
613
01:04:46,839 --> 01:04:52,639
It's the same thing when you get infected
by someone, and you feel this virus
614
01:04:52,759 --> 01:04:57,519
is moving all over your body
and then it comes from that person.
615
01:04:57,639 --> 01:05:01,360
It's a kind of
very special gift.
616
01:05:01,479 --> 01:05:05,639
I'm not saying it's a thing to do,
but...
617
01:05:05,759 --> 01:05:10,200
Yeah, it's a way to connect, maybe.
618
01:05:12,519 --> 01:05:19,639
It's just the idea of the virus moving
through, in your blood.
619
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:25,159
It is, I dunno, I just find it very...
620
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:28,360
poetic idea, maybe.
621
01:05:28,479 --> 01:05:32,360
I always picture it, also,
622
01:05:32,479 --> 01:05:37,639
When I think about it I can see
this little organism
623
01:05:37,759 --> 01:05:40,280
just moving all over the...
624
01:05:41,839 --> 01:05:44,119
your body.
625
01:05:44,239 --> 01:05:46,879
Then you have someone always with you.
626
01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:23,280
And now I will inject it
627
01:06:24,839 --> 01:06:26,839
in the bulb.
628
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,000
It doesn't work well.
629
01:08:35,933 --> 01:08:37,733
Thanks.
630
01:08:37,866 --> 01:08:39,899
- Erik-Jan.
- Max.
631
01:08:43,466 --> 01:08:45,500
- Verbeek.
- Max.
632
01:09:01,133 --> 01:09:04,266
You wish to report an assault?
633
01:09:05,633 --> 01:09:08,933
- If you wish to call it that. Yes.
- How else?
634
01:09:10,500 --> 01:09:13,100
I'd rather leave that up to you.
635
01:09:16,233 --> 01:09:21,733
- You contacted the three suspects yourself?
- Via the Internet.
636
01:09:21,866 --> 01:09:25,600
You had sex with them before.
At least with one of them.
637
01:09:25,699 --> 01:09:27,733
With two of them.
638
01:09:27,866 --> 01:09:32,800
- You knew these were sex parties.
- That was the whole point, right?
639
01:09:32,899 --> 01:09:38,233
- You had been drinking, right?
- To muster up your courage?
640
01:09:38,333 --> 01:09:41,733
- Because of the excitement.
- And you took cocaine.
641
01:09:41,866 --> 01:09:44,466
No, I didn't.
642
01:09:46,833 --> 01:09:49,800
You wanted to push the envelope?
643
01:09:49,899 --> 01:09:52,800
You knew there would be unsafe sex.
644
01:09:52,899 --> 01:09:56,600
- Unsafe sex?
- Because no-one would be HIV-positive?
645
01:09:56,699 --> 01:09:59,233
- Or so they said.
- Which you believed.
646
01:09:59,333 --> 01:10:01,800
- You knew this.
- I believed them, yes.
647
01:10:01,899 --> 01:10:04,066
So, naive.
648
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:07,266
- You smoked a joint, right?
- Two joints. Three?
649
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,699
You wanted uninhibited sex, didn't you?
650
01:10:10,833 --> 01:10:12,933
Push the envelope, right?
651
01:10:13,066 --> 01:10:15,633
'I'll fuck your brains out!'
-'Harder'.
652
01:10:15,733 --> 01:10:19,000
- 'Harder'.
- And then you suddenly felt sick.
653
01:10:19,100 --> 01:10:21,433
You felt unwell?
654
01:10:21,533 --> 01:10:24,466
You had a bit of a spell?
655
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:28,000
- While you knew...
- And were conscious of...
656
01:10:28,100 --> 01:10:31,600
- being doubly penetrated?
- Two dicks up your ass.
657
01:10:31,699 --> 01:10:36,266
Yes, I knew.
But not what happened after that.
658
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:39,899
After that, you didn't know anymore.
659
01:10:40,033 --> 01:10:43,633
After that, you allegedly
didn't know anymore.
660
01:10:43,733 --> 01:10:46,666
He didn't know anymore.
661
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:50,800
- The bastards had suddenly spiked his wine.
- Oh dear.
662
01:10:50,899 --> 01:10:55,066
- Maybe they put GHB in his wine.
- Or was it beer?
663
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:57,333
Or was it vodka?
664
01:10:57,466 --> 01:11:02,533
- Wasn't it like a children's party?
- Playing doctors and nurses gone wrong?
665
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:08,600
- But with real syringes.
- And now they are monsters?
666
01:11:08,699 --> 01:11:10,300
That's not what I said.
667
01:11:13,833 --> 01:11:18,733
I'm saying they took advantage
of the situation.
668
01:11:18,866 --> 01:11:25,533
- Maybe you created this situation yourself.
- Partly created it yourself.
669
01:11:25,666 --> 01:11:29,300
Didn't you find it all very 'arousing'?
670
01:11:30,666 --> 01:11:33,466
It was very stupid of me, I know.
671
01:11:35,699 --> 01:11:38,933
- You had a girlfriend.
- Yes, I had.
672
01:11:40,200 --> 01:11:43,500
- You had a young son.
- I have a young son.
673
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:48,500
- And you never thought of...
- Of course I have.
674
01:11:48,633 --> 01:11:52,800
- All the same, you...
- And was punished for it.
675
01:11:54,266 --> 01:11:58,133
Then suddenly, you woke up in the park.
676
01:11:58,266 --> 01:12:01,100
- On a bench.
- Without your shoes?
677
01:12:01,233 --> 01:12:03,433
And you had lost everything.
678
01:12:04,533 --> 01:12:06,633
Your girlfriend...
679
01:12:06,733 --> 01:12:09,066
- your son...
- Your health.
680
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:12,866
- Your job.
- I still have my son. Sometimes.
681
01:12:14,300 --> 01:12:16,500
And you've been...
682
01:12:17,699 --> 01:12:20,733
I've been punished for it.
683
01:12:22,333 --> 01:12:24,133
For what?
684
01:12:25,300 --> 01:12:27,899
- For what?
- What were you punished for?
685
01:12:28,033 --> 01:12:30,066
I've lost everything.
686
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:32,200
That's not what I asked.
687
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:34,600
No.
688
01:12:35,633 --> 01:12:38,033
Why did you go there?
689
01:12:39,733 --> 01:12:41,733
Several times.
690
01:12:42,899 --> 01:12:44,866
Why?
691
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:48,066
Perhaps you wanted...
692
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:50,466
Perhaps you expected...
693
01:12:51,666 --> 01:12:56,200
like so many people do,
that beyond the horizon...
694
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:02,500
like so many people know
or think they know...
695
01:13:02,633 --> 01:13:04,633
that beyond the horizon...
696
01:13:06,333 --> 01:13:10,533
or at least somewhere...
697
01:13:10,666 --> 01:13:12,899
That it can't be...
698
01:13:14,233 --> 01:13:19,100
That you can't live with the idea,
if there isn't somewhere...
699
01:13:19,233 --> 01:13:23,300
That that would be unbearable?
700
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:29,899
That it all comes together, somewhere?
701
01:13:31,400 --> 01:13:34,933
And not only after death,
because then there's nothing.
702
01:13:38,500 --> 01:13:44,833
That it would be an outrage
if our lives were just shadow lives?
703
01:13:44,933 --> 01:13:51,666
If our life here would be nothing but
a shadow of the real life over there?
704
01:13:53,233 --> 01:13:55,633
That we could not live here?
705
01:13:57,333 --> 01:13:59,333
How do you mean?
706
01:14:00,466 --> 01:14:04,266
I mean that most people assume...
707
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:10,400
that the knowledge we often do possess,
does not guide us.
708
01:14:11,500 --> 01:14:14,699
They think something else guides us.
709
01:14:14,833 --> 01:14:16,833
Sometimes pleasure...
710
01:14:18,533 --> 01:14:20,899
sometimes an urge...
711
01:14:21,033 --> 01:14:23,600
sometimes pain...
712
01:14:23,699 --> 01:14:26,133
and sometimes love.
713
01:14:26,266 --> 01:14:28,266
Often it is fear.
714
01:14:29,233 --> 01:14:32,266
They see knowledge as a slave...
715
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:36,500
being dragged this way and that
by all other influences.
716
01:14:40,066 --> 01:14:43,933
Is that also how you see knowledge?
717
01:14:44,066 --> 01:14:46,699
Or do you see it as a beautiful thing?
718
01:14:46,833 --> 01:14:49,833
Something that could lead us humans?
719
01:14:51,300 --> 01:14:57,133
Do you believe that if someone knows
both right and wrong...
720
01:14:57,266 --> 01:15:04,600
he would let nothing persuade him to do
a thing not prescribed by that knowledge?
721
01:15:07,733 --> 01:15:11,033
No. I wouldn't be here if I did.
722
01:15:13,100 --> 01:15:16,133
Then why are you here?
723
01:15:23,100 --> 01:15:26,300
I expected...
724
01:15:26,433 --> 01:15:28,266
I hoped...
725
01:15:30,733 --> 01:15:32,533
perhaps...
55829