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1
00:00:13,315 --> 00:00:15,395
ANNE: Is that you, Mark?
'Yeah, Mum, it's me.
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00:00:15,435 --> 00:00:17,955
'You're not gonna believe
this. I'm sitting next to Dad!'
3
00:00:18,955 --> 00:00:20,075
He's alive!
4
00:00:21,074 --> 00:00:24,594
Mark, you have your father
back. I'm so happy for you.
5
00:00:24,634 --> 00:00:27,834
Would you mind? It's just a
thing we do with our clients.
6
00:00:28,914 --> 00:00:30,593
CAMERA SHUTTER CLICKS
7
00:00:30,633 --> 00:00:33,273
OFFICER: John Darwin? I'm arresting
you on suspicion of fraud.
8
00:00:33,313 --> 00:00:34,353
This is ridiculous.
9
00:00:35,393 --> 00:00:36,593
'Since our dad was arrested,
10
00:00:36,633 --> 00:00:40,272
'we are very much in an angry
and confused state of mind.'
11
00:00:40,312 --> 00:00:44,192
The front cover of today's
Daily Mirror simply reads:
12
00:00:44,232 --> 00:00:46,712
"John never had amnesia."
13
00:00:48,111 --> 00:00:49,911
Firstly, I think you're
a good person who,
14
00:00:49,951 --> 00:00:52,111
for reasons that are
probably very complicated,
15
00:00:52,151 --> 00:00:53,471
did a truly dreadful thing.
16
00:00:53,511 --> 00:00:54,911
Second, tell the
police the truth
17
00:00:54,951 --> 00:00:57,390
and start rebuilding your
relationship with your boys.
18
00:00:57,430 --> 00:01:00,390
Anne Darwin? I'm arresting
you on suspicion of fraud.
19
00:01:00,430 --> 00:01:02,310
We've not spoken to
either of our parents,
20
00:01:03,470 --> 00:01:07,869
and at this present time, we want
no further contact with them.
21
00:01:07,909 --> 00:01:09,989
JOURNALISTS YELL,
CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICK
22
00:01:13,149 --> 00:01:17,868
'We've not spoken to either of our
parents, and at this present time,
23
00:01:17,908 --> 00:01:21,068
'we want no further
contact with them.'
24
00:01:43,465 --> 00:01:44,625
Anne. Hello.
25
00:01:45,985 --> 00:01:48,265
Hello, I'm Nicola.
26
00:01:48,305 --> 00:01:51,664
Hello, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you too.
27
00:01:52,624 --> 00:01:53,784
How long will I get?
28
00:01:54,904 --> 00:01:57,224
Do you think, in prison?
How long might I get?
29
00:01:59,464 --> 00:02:01,103
So, it's very simple.
30
00:02:01,143 --> 00:02:03,303
We stick her in one room,
stick him in another,
31
00:02:03,343 --> 00:02:04,783
and we play them off.
32
00:02:05,863 --> 00:02:09,662
Bottom line, Anne, the more
honest you are with us,
33
00:02:09,702 --> 00:02:13,382
the more information you can give us
about what actually happened here,
34
00:02:13,422 --> 00:02:16,302
the quicker we'll have
all this sorted. OK?
35
00:02:16,342 --> 00:02:18,341
Yes. Good.
36
00:02:18,381 --> 00:02:21,901
And so we are interviewing her at
the same time as speaking to you,
37
00:02:21,941 --> 00:02:25,181
which means any answers you give
us, we'll be checking with her
38
00:02:25,221 --> 00:02:27,380
to see if they tally
up and vice versa,
39
00:02:27,420 --> 00:02:28,420
does that make sense?
40
00:02:28,460 --> 00:02:29,780
Yes. Good.
41
00:02:29,820 --> 00:02:32,220
Although do bear in mind
that Anne does not have
42
00:02:32,260 --> 00:02:35,060
a very sophisticated grasp
of financial matters.
43
00:02:35,100 --> 00:02:38,059
Right. Just the one
brain cell, you see.
44
00:02:39,019 --> 00:02:40,859
Your wife of 34 years.
45
00:02:40,899 --> 00:02:42,179
Tell me about it.
46
00:02:42,219 --> 00:02:44,379
Would you like me to
repeat the question, Anne?
47
00:02:45,618 --> 00:02:47,338
No, I heard the question.
48
00:02:52,978 --> 00:02:56,417
When I started the insurance claim,
I still believed him to be dead.
49
00:02:57,697 --> 00:02:59,457
You took quite a long
time to answer that.
50
00:02:59,497 --> 00:03:00,497
But she did.
51
00:03:00,537 --> 00:03:02,337
I'm just wondering
why you hesitated?
52
00:03:02,377 --> 00:03:04,536
She's answered the question.
Can you move on, please?
53
00:03:04,576 --> 00:03:06,696
Just remember, Anne,
this is your interview.
54
00:03:06,736 --> 00:03:09,576
This is your chance to tell
us your side of things.
55
00:03:14,015 --> 00:03:16,135
He turned up half way through.
56
00:03:16,175 --> 00:03:17,215
'It's not true.'
57
00:03:17,255 --> 00:03:19,095
I turned up after
they'd been paid out.
58
00:03:19,135 --> 00:03:21,534
I thought you said you couldn't
remember when you turned up.
59
00:03:21,574 --> 00:03:23,294
The specific month, I said.
60
00:03:23,334 --> 00:03:25,494
But you can
specifically remember
61
00:03:25,534 --> 00:03:27,414
that it was after the
claim was settled?
62
00:03:27,454 --> 00:03:28,934
Yes.
63
00:03:28,974 --> 00:03:32,333
Erm... Which month was
the claim settled, then?
64
00:03:36,413 --> 00:03:39,052
Ah. Nice try. I don't remember.
65
00:03:39,092 --> 00:03:41,092
This isn't the "yes,
no" game, John.
66
00:03:41,132 --> 00:03:44,132
Your wife has already told us
that you never had amnesia.
67
00:03:44,172 --> 00:03:46,732
She's mistaken. Perhaps
she's forgotten.
68
00:03:46,772 --> 00:03:50,251
Yes, he told me he'd
faked the whole thing.
69
00:03:50,291 --> 00:03:52,411
His disappearance? Yes.
70
00:03:52,451 --> 00:03:55,171
For financial reasons? Yeah.
71
00:03:57,130 --> 00:03:58,450
Did he tell you where he'd been?
72
00:04:00,170 --> 00:04:02,770
No. "Around and about," he said.
73
00:04:02,810 --> 00:04:03,930
HE SCOFFS
74
00:04:03,970 --> 00:04:06,169
For over a year? Y-Yes.
75
00:04:07,969 --> 00:04:08,969
OK.
76
00:04:11,169 --> 00:04:13,489
But why didn't you go straight
to the police at that point?
77
00:04:14,808 --> 00:04:16,648
He said if we went to the police
78
00:04:17,848 --> 00:04:20,808
we'd have to pay the insurance
money back immediately,
79
00:04:20,848 --> 00:04:22,888
and then we'd be back
where we'd started.
80
00:04:22,928 --> 00:04:25,567
Facing bankruptcy? Yes.
81
00:04:27,847 --> 00:04:30,207
So what was his
plan at this point?
82
00:04:31,447 --> 00:04:34,806
For me to sell all the other
houses, and then hand himself in
83
00:04:34,846 --> 00:04:37,286
when we were in a position
to pay the money back.
84
00:04:37,326 --> 00:04:41,166
OK. And how's that plan going?
Well, I'm here, aren't I?
85
00:04:41,206 --> 00:04:44,525
I'm not with you. Why else
do you think I returned?
86
00:04:45,645 --> 00:04:47,845
I don't know, why did you?
To pay the money back.
87
00:04:47,885 --> 00:04:50,404
Oh, so you've made contact with
the insurance companies, then?
88
00:04:50,444 --> 00:04:52,724
Well, I would have, if
you hadn't arrested me.
89
00:04:52,764 --> 00:04:55,444
So it's our fault.
We spoilt your plan?
90
00:04:55,484 --> 00:04:56,644
You and the press.
91
00:04:56,684 --> 00:04:58,964
Ah, well, apologies. Accepted.
92
00:05:01,763 --> 00:05:03,523
Can I just ask, though, John,
93
00:05:03,563 --> 00:05:06,523
if your plan was to
sell all the properties,
94
00:05:06,563 --> 00:05:08,802
with the intention of
paying the money back
95
00:05:08,842 --> 00:05:09,922
when you got straight
96
00:05:11,482 --> 00:05:12,842
why did you move to Panama?
97
00:05:16,602 --> 00:05:17,601
No comment.
98
00:05:18,801 --> 00:05:20,481
And buy a flat there?
99
00:05:20,521 --> 00:05:23,081
No comment. And a plot of land?
100
00:05:24,761 --> 00:05:26,640
No comment.
101
00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,040
Well, Anne, why did you
just go along with it?
102
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,280
Why didn't you tell him it
was wrong and dishonest?
103
00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:34,840
I should have and.
104
00:05:36,479 --> 00:05:38,199
I should have told the
boys at that point,
105
00:05:38,239 --> 00:05:40,039
but he said if I
went to the police,
106
00:05:40,079 --> 00:05:42,839
he'd tell them I was
in it from the start.
107
00:05:42,879 --> 00:05:45,158
You were an adult.
You could've refused.
108
00:05:45,198 --> 00:05:48,318
And I bitterly regret
my decision, but
109
00:05:49,998 --> 00:05:52,198
he was hard to resist -
John was very forceful.
110
00:05:57,557 --> 00:05:59,437
Anne.
111
00:05:59,477 --> 00:06:01,357
Why...
112
00:06:02,636 --> 00:06:05,036
Why don't you just
tell us the truth?
113
00:06:08,276 --> 00:06:10,796
You were in on it from
the start, weren't you?
114
00:06:10,836 --> 00:06:13,555
She's answered the question.
Can you move on, please?
115
00:06:17,315 --> 00:06:20,394
So the, er, life insurance
policies that you took out
116
00:06:20,434 --> 00:06:22,714
just three months
before you went missing,
117
00:06:22,754 --> 00:06:24,834
is that date relevant, John?
118
00:06:24,874 --> 00:06:26,274
You tell me.
119
00:06:26,314 --> 00:06:28,594
No, you tell me.
That's how this works.
120
00:06:28,634 --> 00:06:30,153
Is that date relevant? No.
121
00:06:30,193 --> 00:06:33,353
No? So it's pure coincidence
122
00:06:33,393 --> 00:06:37,313
that you took out a life
insurance policy in December 2001,
123
00:06:37,353 --> 00:06:39,832
which then allowed your wife
to make a very large claim
124
00:06:39,872 --> 00:06:42,072
just 12 weeks later? Yes.
125
00:06:42,112 --> 00:06:44,552
Is it also a coincidence that
on a computer hard drive,
126
00:06:44,592 --> 00:06:46,952
taken from your house soon
after your disappearance,
127
00:06:46,992 --> 00:06:49,311
we've since found
a downloaded file
128
00:06:49,351 --> 00:06:52,391
titled "Missing Persons
and Police Investigations"?
129
00:06:55,071 --> 00:06:56,990
One of the boys must
have downloaded that.
130
00:06:57,030 --> 00:07:01,350
It was dated a month before
you went missing, John.
131
00:07:04,110 --> 00:07:05,189
Fair play.
132
00:07:06,389 --> 00:07:07,629
That's a tricky one.
133
00:07:08,709 --> 00:07:12,149
OK, I'm now showing
Anne Exhibit AB01,
134
00:07:12,189 --> 00:07:16,548
which is a copy of a library card,
registered at Hartlepool library,
135
00:07:16,588 --> 00:07:20,188
in the name of "John Jones".
136
00:07:20,228 --> 00:07:23,867
Anne, can you tell
me who you see
137
00:07:23,907 --> 00:07:25,187
on that photo?
138
00:07:26,587 --> 00:07:27,587
SOFTLY: It's John.
139
00:07:27,627 --> 00:07:30,307
Except this fella has a beard.
140
00:07:30,347 --> 00:07:33,146
I presume you can
grow a beard? Yes.
141
00:07:33,186 --> 00:07:36,626
OK, so is that you,
but with a beard?
142
00:07:38,546 --> 00:07:39,826
Maybe.
143
00:07:39,866 --> 00:07:41,705
John, I'm asking if you
can identify yourself.
144
00:07:41,745 --> 00:07:44,585
No comment. OK, well
145
00:07:44,625 --> 00:07:46,665
perhaps you could read two
things out for me, then.
146
00:07:46,705 --> 00:07:49,305
The date it was issued
and the address.
147
00:07:51,744 --> 00:07:54,664
22nd of April 2002.
148
00:07:54,704 --> 00:08:01,223
Address, Number Four, The
Cliff, Seaton Carew. OK.
149
00:08:01,263 --> 00:08:04,583
So just four weeks
after you went missing,
150
00:08:04,623 --> 00:08:06,663
a man who looked
very much like you...
151
00:08:06,703 --> 00:08:09,142
Ah, yeah, but with
a beard, yeah,
152
00:08:09,182 --> 00:08:12,342
applies for a library card
and gives your home address.
153
00:08:13,622 --> 00:08:15,902
But this man's
called John Jones!
154
00:08:17,421 --> 00:08:21,221
Come on, Anne, he was living at
number four from day one, wasn't he?
155
00:08:21,261 --> 00:08:23,541
No. And you knew from day one.
156
00:08:23,581 --> 00:08:25,221
I didn't.
157
00:08:25,261 --> 00:08:29,060
Were your boys in on it,
too? No, absolutely not.
158
00:08:29,100 --> 00:08:32,180
Cos our economic crime unit is
finding all sorts of things.
159
00:08:32,220 --> 00:08:34,740
What things? Money transfers
to Mark and Anthony,
160
00:08:34,780 --> 00:08:37,619
fake property sales to Mark.
161
00:08:37,659 --> 00:08:40,739
Basically money laundering,
very serious of fence.
162
00:08:40,779 --> 00:08:42,579
That was just an
inheritance tax thing.
163
00:08:42,619 --> 00:08:45,698
Please, they never knew anything
about any of this, please.
164
00:08:48,658 --> 00:08:51,698
It's interesting how
upset you're getting,
165
00:08:53,057 --> 00:08:56,577
and I tell you, I do not wanna
have to bring your lads in.
166
00:08:56,617 --> 00:08:58,137
Please don't.
167
00:08:58,177 --> 00:09:01,657
The best way to head that off is
for you tell us the whole truth.
168
00:09:01,697 --> 00:09:03,736
You were in on it from
the start, weren't you?
169
00:09:03,776 --> 00:09:04,936
No.
170
00:09:04,976 --> 00:09:08,296
And you knew John was perfectly
fine when you dialled 999
171
00:09:08,336 --> 00:09:10,016
and said he was missing.
172
00:09:10,056 --> 00:09:13,855
In fact, I'm surprised the attending
officer didn't see wet footprints
173
00:09:13,895 --> 00:09:15,375
going up the stairs.
174
00:09:16,895 --> 00:09:18,015
Am I right?
175
00:09:22,334 --> 00:09:23,334
No comment.
176
00:09:24,454 --> 00:09:25,814
'Have a seat.'
177
00:09:31,853 --> 00:09:34,253
So, we need to have
a talk about bail.
178
00:09:34,293 --> 00:09:35,653
No. No bail.
179
00:09:38,052 --> 00:09:40,492
You do understand what
happens now, don't you, Anne?
180
00:09:40,532 --> 00:09:44,732
Anyone not released on
bail is kept in a prison,
181
00:09:44,772 --> 00:09:47,091
on remand, until their trial.
182
00:09:49,251 --> 00:09:50,811
Where would I even go?
183
00:09:52,931 --> 00:09:56,770
I only have one friend, and
she won't speak to me now.
184
00:09:56,810 --> 00:10:00,450
Obviously none of my family would
want me, so where would I even go?
185
00:10:02,770 --> 00:10:05,369
DISTANT SIRENS WAIL
186
00:10:08,889 --> 00:10:10,209
OFFICER: Mind the step.
187
00:10:11,569 --> 00:10:13,808
Take a seat here,
please. DOOR SLAMS.
188
00:10:36,766 --> 00:10:39,006
Heya. Hey.
189
00:10:39,366 --> 00:10:40,925
It's all good,
no-one's followed me.
190
00:10:40,965 --> 00:10:43,965
I know you think I'm
overreacting but last night
191
00:10:45,845 --> 00:10:48,125
there were about 50 of
them outside the house.
192
00:10:48,165 --> 00:10:49,924
Lou's had to go stay
with her parents.
193
00:10:49,964 --> 00:10:51,524
I've had to check in here.
194
00:10:51,564 --> 00:10:55,124
So I just spoke to
the police again. And?
195
00:10:55,164 --> 00:10:57,004
They'll want to interview
us at some point.
196
00:10:57,044 --> 00:10:58,723
As "witnesses", apparently, now.
197
00:10:58,763 --> 00:11:01,523
Well, we don't do anything
without a solicitor.
198
00:11:01,563 --> 00:11:03,243
I'll call my lawyer, shall I (?)
199
00:11:03,283 --> 00:11:05,283
Uncle Michael's sorting
us out with one.
200
00:11:06,883 --> 00:11:07,882
How is he?
201
00:11:08,962 --> 00:11:10,042
Same as all of us.
202
00:11:12,362 --> 00:11:13,922
I just can't stop
thinking about the
203
00:11:15,762 --> 00:11:19,601
literally hundreds of times
we went up there, Mark
204
00:11:21,401 --> 00:11:24,641
to keep her spirits up
whilst we were dying inside.
205
00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,560
'Do you know how it
makes me feel, mate?'
206
00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,920
Makes me really hate her.
207
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:35,159
I'm raging about them both, but
at least he only told one lie.
208
00:11:36,999 --> 00:11:38,279
An evil, horrible one,
209
00:11:39,879 --> 00:11:41,279
but it was just one.
210
00:11:41,319 --> 00:11:42,319
'Anne Darwin?'
211
00:11:42,359 --> 00:11:47,638
'She lied to us every day
for five-and-a-half years.
212
00:11:47,678 --> 00:11:49,638
'Every single day.'
213
00:11:49,678 --> 00:11:51,158
You start thinking,
214
00:11:51,198 --> 00:11:54,157
"Well, if she could lie
so easily about that,"
215
00:11:54,197 --> 00:11:56,437
"about our actual
dad being dead"
216
00:11:57,917 --> 00:12:00,397
"what else could she
have lied about?"
217
00:12:01,516 --> 00:12:02,796
OFFICER: Clothes in here.
218
00:12:03,876 --> 00:12:05,076
Put your wedding ring in here.
219
00:12:09,516 --> 00:12:13,435
And then I think, "Wow,
is it all just some"
220
00:12:14,755 --> 00:12:16,395
"fucked-up lie?"
221
00:12:18,395 --> 00:12:19,554
Our family
222
00:12:21,114 --> 00:12:22,474
our childhood
223
00:12:25,594 --> 00:12:27,554
our whole life with them?
224
00:12:35,153 --> 00:12:38,032
Did either of them ever
even genuinely love us?
225
00:12:38,072 --> 00:12:39,552
PRISONERS CHAT INDISTINCTLY
226
00:12:42,592 --> 00:12:43,792
So that's me.
227
00:12:45,832 --> 00:12:47,671
That's where I am, mate.
228
00:12:49,911 --> 00:12:51,911
ANNE: 'And here I was.
229
00:12:51,951 --> 00:12:54,511
'Where I'd feared
ending up all my life.
230
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:58,550
'Utterly alone.'
231
00:12:59,670 --> 00:13:00,870
DOOR BANGS
232
00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:04,349
LATCH CLUNKS, KEYS JANGLE
233
00:13:04,389 --> 00:13:06,229
WOMEN SHOUT DISTANTLY
234
00:13:22,667 --> 00:13:24,747
'It's from John.'
235
00:13:24,787 --> 00:13:29,387
"Dear Dad, just to let you
know, please don't worry."
236
00:13:31,426 --> 00:13:32,586
Carry on.
237
00:13:34,706 --> 00:13:37,546
Sorry. That's it.
238
00:13:41,785 --> 00:13:44,225
JOHN ON PHONE: 'I really don't
think you've given any thought
239
00:13:44,265 --> 00:13:45,905
'as to what it's like for me.
240
00:13:45,945 --> 00:13:48,745
'An ex-prison officer in prison.
241
00:13:48,785 --> 00:13:52,224
'I've had my food spat in, I've
been punched, abused verbally.
242
00:13:52,264 --> 00:13:53,904
Whatever you think
it's like for you,
243
00:13:53,944 --> 00:13:56,184
it's so much worse for me.
244
00:13:57,184 --> 00:13:58,823
'Except it wasn't.
245
00:13:58,863 --> 00:14:01,303
'John had already
given up his boys once,
246
00:14:01,343 --> 00:14:02,943
'without a second
thought, really.
247
00:14:02,983 --> 00:14:07,023
'For me, it felt like my
heart had been ripped out.'
248
00:14:08,702 --> 00:14:12,142
'My darling son, I
wanted to write you again
249
00:14:12,182 --> 00:14:16,261
'to tell you how profoundly
sorry I am for what I have done.
250
00:14:16,301 --> 00:14:19,301
'I will never be able
to explain my actions,
251
00:14:19,341 --> 00:14:21,901
'because what I did
was as inexplicable
252
00:14:21,941 --> 00:14:23,661
'as it was unforgiveable.
253
00:14:24,821 --> 00:14:29,980
'But what I can say is
that I love you so much.
254
00:14:30,020 --> 00:14:34,299
'I always have loved you,
and I always will love you,
255
00:14:34,339 --> 00:14:37,299
'even if you never
want to see me again.
256
00:14:37,339 --> 00:14:39,899
'Which I fully expect
to be the case.'
257
00:14:42,859 --> 00:14:43,898
HE SIGHS
258
00:14:56,457 --> 00:15:00,217
'And indeed, despite the dozens
of letters I wrote to them
259
00:15:00,257 --> 00:15:03,856
'over the next few
months, neither replied.
260
00:15:05,176 --> 00:15:06,936
'How could I
possibly blame them?
261
00:15:07,976 --> 00:15:09,256
'And so, finally
262
00:15:10,335 --> 00:15:14,415
'finally, I realised there
was only one way forward
263
00:15:14,455 --> 00:15:16,175
'if I ever wanted
to see them again.'
264
00:15:19,334 --> 00:15:20,534
'I lied.'
265
00:15:20,574 --> 00:15:23,334
I was in on it from
the very start.
266
00:15:25,774 --> 00:15:29,493
So you knew, before he
went out in the canoe,
267
00:15:29,533 --> 00:15:31,773
that he intended to
fake his own death?
268
00:15:33,653 --> 00:15:35,013
Yes, I did.
269
00:15:35,053 --> 00:15:38,092
And when you reported him
missing? I knew he was fine.
270
00:15:38,132 --> 00:15:40,412
In fact, I'd picked him
up from North Gare beach
271
00:15:40,452 --> 00:15:41,772
about two hours before
272
00:15:41,812 --> 00:15:43,732
and then driven him
to Durham station,
273
00:15:43,772 --> 00:15:45,572
where he got the
train to the lakes
274
00:15:45,612 --> 00:15:48,051
and camped by a stream
for the next three weeks.
275
00:15:48,091 --> 00:15:50,331
He then came back to Seaton
276
00:15:50,371 --> 00:15:54,531
and lived between numbers three
and four for the next five years.
277
00:15:55,930 --> 00:15:57,610
I never wanted to do any of it.
278
00:15:59,130 --> 00:16:02,570
And I tried constantly
to persuade him not to.
279
00:16:05,729 --> 00:16:07,249
But I did do it.
280
00:16:08,889 --> 00:16:10,249
I was in on it
281
00:16:11,489 --> 00:16:12,729
from the very beginning.
282
00:16:15,968 --> 00:16:17,808
And I'm very, very sorry.
283
00:16:44,005 --> 00:16:45,445
OK.
284
00:16:46,565 --> 00:16:47,805
Yes.
285
00:16:50,364 --> 00:16:51,764
I faked it all.
286
00:17:02,043 --> 00:17:03,443
DOOR CLANGS
287
00:17:08,762 --> 00:17:11,082
Oh, my God. John.
288
00:17:16,881 --> 00:17:19,321
HE BREATHES DEEPLY
289
00:17:19,361 --> 00:17:22,081
They said I could see you
for two minutes. Who did?
290
00:17:23,161 --> 00:17:24,161
J... please...
291
00:17:24,201 --> 00:17:26,960
Cos we're all we have
now, love. Each other...
292
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,840
John, someone could walk in...
We just have to stick together.
293
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:31,200
OFFICER: That's enough, fella.
294
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:33,879
Right, out, now!
295
00:17:38,999 --> 00:17:41,079
I also wanted to tell you
296
00:17:42,718 --> 00:17:45,118
that I forgive you, Anne.
297
00:17:45,158 --> 00:17:46,678
WHISPERING: I do.
298
00:17:56,197 --> 00:17:57,237
Call me, Anne!
299
00:17:58,757 --> 00:17:59,997
DOOR BANGS
300
00:18:11,835 --> 00:18:14,955
'Even harder than
confessing to the police
301
00:18:14,995 --> 00:18:18,994
'was telling my parents that the
daughter they had always adored
302
00:18:19,034 --> 00:18:23,154
'had betrayed every single
principle they had ever believed in.
303
00:18:24,634 --> 00:18:27,074
'I fully expected
them to disown me.
304
00:18:36,353 --> 00:18:37,432
'But I am guilty.'
305
00:18:39,032 --> 00:18:41,992
Well, that's what I'm saying, if
we can prove that you were coerced,
306
00:18:42,032 --> 00:18:43,432
then no, you're not.
307
00:18:44,512 --> 00:18:46,271
I didn't have to do anything.
308
00:18:46,311 --> 00:18:48,351
I was an adult, I
made my own choices.
309
00:18:48,391 --> 00:18:50,271
He never threatened
me or hurt me.
310
00:18:50,311 --> 00:18:53,071
Physically, no, but emotionally?
311
00:18:53,111 --> 00:18:55,670
Every day of your life
together, as I understand it,
312
00:18:55,710 --> 00:18:58,230
and I think I can argue that
that wears a person down,
313
00:18:58,270 --> 00:19:00,590
day after day year after year,
314
00:19:00,630 --> 00:19:02,950
till they no longer have
the strength to resist.
315
00:19:04,109 --> 00:19:07,669
So what would I get? For
a guilty plea, I mean.
316
00:19:07,709 --> 00:19:10,709
Maybe... three years?
317
00:19:13,828 --> 00:19:18,188
Four, four-and-a-half if
you go not guilty and lose.
318
00:19:18,228 --> 00:19:20,908
Which I should stress
is entirely possible.
319
00:19:20,948 --> 00:19:22,347
It's a tough defence to prove.
320
00:19:24,147 --> 00:19:25,387
But if it succeeded?
321
00:19:27,547 --> 00:19:29,147
Well, then you'd walk free.
322
00:19:32,866 --> 00:19:35,946
'It was a horrible
decision to have to make.
323
00:19:35,986 --> 00:19:37,706
'And for many weeks,
324
00:19:37,746 --> 00:19:42,745
'I had absolutely no idea what
the right thing to do was.'
325
00:19:42,785 --> 00:19:44,625
WOMEN LAUGH
326
00:19:48,704 --> 00:19:51,264
ON PA SYSTEM: 'Officers
requested in rec area three.
327
00:19:51,304 --> 00:19:53,504
'Please report to
Officer Crenshaw.'
328
00:19:53,544 --> 00:19:56,104
'And then a few days
before my first hearing,
329
00:19:56,144 --> 00:19:58,183
'my parents came to see me.
330
00:19:59,463 --> 00:20:02,223
'These good, good people,
331
00:20:02,263 --> 00:20:06,263
'my flesh and blood who had
been so shamed and let down,
332
00:20:06,303 --> 00:20:10,622
'told me whatever I'd
done, they still loved me.
333
00:20:10,662 --> 00:20:12,982
'That they would
always love me.'
334
00:20:15,062 --> 00:20:18,181
I'm so scared my parents
will die before I get out.
335
00:20:20,381 --> 00:20:23,381
And I think, if I
could just see my boys
336
00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:26,740
talk to them, maybe I could...
337
00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:32,300
And he did make me
do it, he really did.
338
00:20:32,340 --> 00:20:35,459
I... I tried to stop
him so many times.
339
00:20:35,499 --> 00:20:39,219
OK, well, the pre-trial
hearing is in three weeks.
340
00:20:40,459 --> 00:20:43,418
How do you want to plead?
I want to go not guilty.
341
00:20:56,417 --> 00:20:58,857
'And then, finally,
the day arrived.
342
00:20:58,897 --> 00:21:01,696
'I'm not sure what
I was most scared of
343
00:21:01,736 --> 00:21:06,576
'the trial itself or
seeing my boys in court.
344
00:21:06,616 --> 00:21:09,935
'A torment John avoided by
already pleading guilty.
345
00:21:12,975 --> 00:21:15,055
'I was on my own.'
346
00:21:15,455 --> 00:21:17,975
OFFICER: OK, Anne, it's time.
347
00:21:18,015 --> 00:21:21,374
BARRISTER: 'Members of the jury,
the defendant stands before you,
348
00:21:21,414 --> 00:21:26,574
'charged with 15 counts of
deception and money laundering.
349
00:21:26,614 --> 00:21:30,573
'Mrs Darwin's defence is
one of marital coercion,
350
00:21:30,613 --> 00:21:33,933
'but, for this to
succeed, it must be shown
351
00:21:33,973 --> 00:21:38,412
'that her husband was present each
time an of fence was committed.
352
00:21:38,452 --> 00:21:39,812
'It is the Crown's submission
353
00:21:39,852 --> 00:21:43,212
'that not only was her husband
very often not present,
354
00:21:43,252 --> 00:21:46,131
'but that over a period
of five-and-a-half years,
355
00:21:46,171 --> 00:21:50,051
'and with multiple
opportunities to end the deceit,
356
00:21:50,091 --> 00:21:54,330
'she in fact repeatedly offended
357
00:21:54,370 --> 00:21:58,490
'willingly, individually
and actively.'
358
00:22:00,330 --> 00:22:02,050
'We will furthermore show
359
00:22:02,090 --> 00:22:05,849
'that, far from being a
submissive and coerced wife,
360
00:22:05,889 --> 00:22:10,329
'Mrs Darwin was in fact a
clever and ingenious liar
361
00:22:10,369 --> 00:22:13,008
'who was able to
effortlessly deceive
362
00:22:13,048 --> 00:22:15,248
'on an almost industrial scale.
363
00:22:15,288 --> 00:22:18,368
'To the police, to
the Coroner's Court,
364
00:22:18,408 --> 00:22:20,088
'to her work friends
and colleagues
365
00:22:20,128 --> 00:22:24,287
'and, perhaps most shamefully,
to her own children.'
366
00:22:24,327 --> 00:22:25,687
All rise.
367
00:22:25,727 --> 00:22:27,447
And lastly, members of the jury,
368
00:22:27,487 --> 00:22:30,246
as sons, daughters,
mothers yourself,
369
00:22:30,286 --> 00:22:33,566
I will ask you, when you
look at that infamous photo
370
00:22:33,606 --> 00:22:35,886
in a Panamanian estate agent,
371
00:22:35,926 --> 00:22:38,406
if you see a terrified woman,
372
00:22:38,446 --> 00:22:42,245
coerced in to telling her
children their father was dead,
373
00:22:42,285 --> 00:22:46,445
or if you see a
devious and wily woman,
374
00:22:46,485 --> 00:22:49,524
smiling at the
prospect of a new life
375
00:22:49,564 --> 00:22:51,164
in a tropical paradise,
376
00:22:51,204 --> 00:22:54,844
paid for with the fruits
of her dreadful fraud.
377
00:22:56,004 --> 00:22:57,523
It crushed my world.
378
00:22:58,683 --> 00:23:00,643
Of course it did.
379
00:23:00,683 --> 00:23:03,123
I loved him. He was...
He was a great dad.
380
00:23:04,883 --> 00:23:07,082
Crushed my entire world.
381
00:23:07,122 --> 00:23:10,522
'It might have appeared like I
took control, but I didn't really.'
382
00:23:10,562 --> 00:23:14,242
It was only ever within the confines
of what he ultimately wanted.
383
00:23:15,841 --> 00:23:17,881
Are you a good liar, Mrs Darwin?
384
00:23:17,921 --> 00:23:20,601
I hope not. Well, did
you convince your sons
385
00:23:20,641 --> 00:23:22,721
for five-and-a-half years
their father was dead?
386
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,240
Yes. And the police?
387
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,640
Yes. And the coroner?
388
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,640
So, you are telling
the court, on oath,
389
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,959
that he forged your signature?
390
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,359
He made a footer template
of it on his computer.
391
00:23:37,399 --> 00:23:42,038
So any letter, any instruction
to a bank or lawyer or whoever,
392
00:23:42,078 --> 00:23:43,638
he could write it
393
00:23:43,678 --> 00:23:46,158
and it would appear
to be from you? Yes.
394
00:23:46,198 --> 00:23:48,358
So, you had no idea at all?
395
00:23:48,398 --> 00:23:50,678
She told me it was to
do with inheritance tax.
396
00:23:50,718 --> 00:23:52,557
And you believed her?
397
00:23:54,317 --> 00:23:55,637
She was my mother.
398
00:23:56,797 --> 00:23:59,397
And was money
important to him? Yes.
399
00:23:59,437 --> 00:24:01,476
And the appearance of it? Maybe.
400
00:24:01,516 --> 00:24:03,116
And your mother?
401
00:24:03,156 --> 00:24:05,836
Er... I'd always
thought the opposite.
402
00:24:05,876 --> 00:24:09,275
"I cannot wait to
join you, my darling.
403
00:24:09,315 --> 00:24:12,355
"Missing you so much."
404
00:24:12,395 --> 00:24:14,275
"All my love."
405
00:24:14,315 --> 00:24:16,875
"Kiss, kiss, kiss."
406
00:24:16,915 --> 00:24:18,754
Who wrote that?
407
00:24:20,514 --> 00:24:21,834
I did.
408
00:24:24,554 --> 00:24:27,913
"Generally, I only ever
take her out to vote."
409
00:24:27,953 --> 00:24:30,153
He actually said that? Yes.
410
00:24:30,193 --> 00:24:32,393
To a friend of his
in front of you?
411
00:24:32,433 --> 00:24:35,713
Yes. I think he
thought it was funny.
412
00:24:35,752 --> 00:24:38,152
Angry, betrayed
413
00:24:39,912 --> 00:24:41,312
stupid.
414
00:24:41,352 --> 00:24:43,792
I felt all of that.
415
00:24:43,832 --> 00:24:48,231
I still do. Every single day,
I... still have very negative...
416
00:24:48,271 --> 00:24:50,991
Where was John when you
roped your unwitting children
417
00:24:51,031 --> 00:24:52,511
into laundering money for you?
418
00:24:52,551 --> 00:24:55,030
He was in Panama.
419
00:24:55,070 --> 00:24:58,150
My point is that he
wasn't standing over you
420
00:24:58,190 --> 00:24:59,630
as you spoke to the bank,
421
00:24:59,670 --> 00:25:02,510
forcing you to commit
a criminal act, was he?
422
00:25:02,550 --> 00:25:05,949
He didn't need to
actually be in the room.
423
00:25:05,989 --> 00:25:09,549
He was on the end of an email,
or phone, or just in my head.
424
00:25:10,869 --> 00:25:12,708
You can fight your
corner, can't you?
425
00:25:12,748 --> 00:25:13,828
I can now.
426
00:25:13,868 --> 00:25:15,788
Under immense pressure,
in a public trial.
427
00:25:15,828 --> 00:25:20,228
But not, apparently, at home
with your non-violent husband.
428
00:25:22,107 --> 00:25:23,387
You don't know what to think.
429
00:25:23,427 --> 00:25:26,507
I mean, it took me a long time to
even believe the photo was real,
430
00:25:26,547 --> 00:25:29,587
that any parent could
have done such a thing.
431
00:25:29,626 --> 00:25:32,346
It took me a long
time to accept that.
432
00:25:32,386 --> 00:25:35,586
I'm not even sure I
have. Maybe I never will.
433
00:25:35,626 --> 00:25:38,985
Can I ask, why didn't
you just leave him?
434
00:25:39,025 --> 00:25:42,785
This man you claim was
an oppressive bully.
435
00:25:44,465 --> 00:25:46,745
I wanted to keep
the family together.
436
00:25:48,384 --> 00:25:50,784
You "wanted to keep
the family together"?
437
00:25:50,824 --> 00:25:53,424
Oh, the irony, Mrs Darwin.
438
00:25:54,704 --> 00:25:56,064
And let me ask you this.
439
00:25:56,104 --> 00:25:59,383
If you hadn't have picked
John up from North Gare,
440
00:25:59,423 --> 00:26:01,463
if you'd have said
to him on the phone,
441
00:26:01,503 --> 00:26:04,783
"Oh, I can't go through with this,"
or, "I'm not doing this to my boys,"
442
00:26:04,823 --> 00:26:07,862
what were you frightened
was going to happen to you
443
00:26:07,902 --> 00:26:09,502
for disobeying his request?
444
00:26:09,542 --> 00:26:11,302
Was he going to beat you up? No.
445
00:26:11,342 --> 00:26:14,262
Were you scared that
when he got home,
446
00:26:14,302 --> 00:26:17,181
he might manipulate you a bit?
447
00:26:21,501 --> 00:26:24,420
I was frightened that
he might leave me.
448
00:26:28,180 --> 00:26:33,059
'The jury took less than four
hours to reach a verdict.'
449
00:26:33,099 --> 00:26:36,379
I accept that your
husband, John Darwin,
450
00:26:36,419 --> 00:26:38,339
was the driving force
behind this deceit,
451
00:26:38,379 --> 00:26:42,418
but you, Anne, although
perhaps initially unconvinced,
452
00:26:42,458 --> 00:26:47,018
went on to contribute to its success
and play your part very efficiently.
453
00:26:47,058 --> 00:26:50,298
In my judgment, you
operated as a team,
454
00:26:50,338 --> 00:26:53,057
each adding something
to the joint venture.
455
00:26:53,097 --> 00:26:55,657
And it is the duration
of the offending,
456
00:26:55,697 --> 00:26:57,377
its multi-faceted nature,
457
00:26:57,417 --> 00:27:01,216
and, in particular, the grief
inflicted over the years
458
00:27:01,256 --> 00:27:04,696
to the real victims,
your own children,
459
00:27:04,736 --> 00:27:09,575
that make this a case that merits
a particularly severe sentence.
460
00:27:09,615 --> 00:27:11,495
Anne Catherine Darwin,
461
00:27:11,535 --> 00:27:15,575
I sentence you to a term of
six years and six months.
462
00:27:15,615 --> 00:27:17,095
Take her down.
463
00:27:22,574 --> 00:27:25,774
'It was three months
longer than John got,
464
00:27:25,814 --> 00:27:28,413
'but then I was their mother.
465
00:27:28,453 --> 00:27:32,133
'I think most people felt
I'd got what I deserved.'
466
00:27:36,172 --> 00:27:38,252
DOOR CLANGING SHUT
467
00:27:40,412 --> 00:27:42,412
'And so it began.
468
00:27:42,452 --> 00:27:46,651
'Six years and six
months, minus parole.
469
00:27:46,691 --> 00:27:48,971
'I tried to keep busy.
470
00:27:49,011 --> 00:27:50,771
'Keep myself distracted.
471
00:27:52,251 --> 00:27:58,170
'I continued to write to the boys,
never really expecting a reply.
472
00:27:58,210 --> 00:28:01,410
'And John continued
to write and call.'
473
00:28:01,450 --> 00:28:04,129
Look, money's not going
to be an issue, love.
474
00:28:04,169 --> 00:28:07,129
Trust me. Our story sells.
475
00:28:07,169 --> 00:28:10,889
'And I wanted to cut him off,
I really did, but it was hard.
476
00:28:12,088 --> 00:28:16,168
'After 35 years, and with
nothing else in my life,
477
00:28:16,208 --> 00:28:19,768
'even about a bad future felt
better than none whatsoever.'
478
00:28:19,808 --> 00:28:21,207
Fear not.
479
00:28:21,247 --> 00:28:26,447
We play our cards right, we
are going to be sitting pretty.
480
00:28:31,926 --> 00:28:34,806
'And then eight months
into my time inside,
481
00:28:34,846 --> 00:28:38,725
'the prison chaplain suggested
I speak to a counsellor
482
00:28:38,765 --> 00:28:41,765
'because I could not rid
myself of thoughts of death.'
483
00:28:46,365 --> 00:28:48,964
GRACE: 'What would you like
to get from these sessions?'
484
00:28:49,004 --> 00:28:52,844
I suppose to wake up every day not
hating myself would be a start.
485
00:28:54,004 --> 00:28:55,964
And how do you think you
could get to that place?
486
00:28:59,283 --> 00:29:01,083
Through my family.
487
00:29:02,363 --> 00:29:03,883
My children.
488
00:29:05,482 --> 00:29:08,842
By somehow showing them
that this is not who I am,
489
00:29:08,882 --> 00:29:12,442
that I did a terrible,
terrible thing, but...
490
00:29:12,482 --> 00:29:15,801
I don't think that
I'm a terrible person.
491
00:29:19,481 --> 00:29:21,441
I don't expect forgiveness.
492
00:29:21,481 --> 00:29:25,840
I never expected to be forgiven.
I just ask for second chance.
493
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,760
To show them that... I could
be a good mother again.
494
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,039
Be the person I used to
be, or should have been.
495
00:29:35,079 --> 00:29:36,799
Could may be even still.
496
00:29:38,319 --> 00:29:39,639
And who was that?
497
00:29:42,078 --> 00:29:44,118
She was kind, I think.
498
00:29:46,198 --> 00:29:47,718
And loving.
499
00:29:49,518 --> 00:29:53,317
With conscience. She
knew right from wrong.
500
00:29:57,237 --> 00:29:59,236
And she didn't want much.
501
00:30:00,876 --> 00:30:04,476
A happy family, enough
money to pay the bills.
502
00:30:06,476 --> 00:30:08,035
A simple life.
503
00:30:09,755 --> 00:30:13,035
So, how do you get back to her?
504
00:30:16,675 --> 00:30:18,754
I don't know.
505
00:30:18,794 --> 00:30:21,274
OK, mate. You take care.
506
00:30:22,954 --> 00:30:24,594
How is he?
507
00:30:25,874 --> 00:30:26,953
Angry.
508
00:30:29,233 --> 00:30:30,593
Sad.
509
00:30:32,433 --> 00:30:35,712
Laughing about it,
and then... crying.
510
00:30:38,192 --> 00:30:39,752
Fucked up, basically.
511
00:30:43,072 --> 00:30:44,191
And you?
512
00:30:46,111 --> 00:30:48,831
It just feels like
they're both dead.
513
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:55,070
I'm not sure I can bear that.
514
00:30:56,350 --> 00:30:58,390
'I was never a
confident person.'
515
00:30:59,790 --> 00:31:04,069
When I look back... my
first encounter with him,
516
00:31:04,109 --> 00:31:07,869
John... was when I
was 14 on the bus.
517
00:31:09,149 --> 00:31:11,668
And he knocked my
school hat off.
518
00:31:17,388 --> 00:31:19,708
It was just a silly joke, and.
519
00:31:21,027 --> 00:31:25,147
I'm sure he didn't mean to,
but... he made me feel stupid.
520
00:31:27,387 --> 00:31:29,026
More stupid.
521
00:31:30,466 --> 00:31:34,026
I was already very aware I
wasn't academic, like him.
522
00:31:35,346 --> 00:31:37,106
But
523
00:31:37,146 --> 00:31:42,385
maybe that set the
tone, as it were.
524
00:31:44,385 --> 00:31:47,544
Because he was the
only boy I ever...
525
00:31:51,384 --> 00:31:53,704
And I went straight
from my parents' house
526
00:31:53,744 --> 00:31:56,263
to living with him after
we got married, so.
527
00:31:57,503 --> 00:32:00,023
I never knew anything but him.
528
00:32:00,063 --> 00:32:04,143
How he spoke to me...
how he regarded me.
529
00:32:06,062 --> 00:32:09,902
And I think that's
been quite a thing,
530
00:32:12,982 --> 00:32:15,341
for the last 35 years.
531
00:32:28,980 --> 00:32:30,220
Anne?
532
00:32:31,620 --> 00:32:33,259
Hope it's good news.
533
00:32:33,299 --> 00:32:34,699
Thank you.
534
00:32:44,018 --> 00:32:46,258
'Dear Mum, I hope you are well
535
00:32:46,298 --> 00:32:49,218
'and not finding
things too difficult.
536
00:32:49,258 --> 00:32:52,457
'We are all still trying to
adjust to what has happened,
537
00:32:52,497 --> 00:32:54,617
'which has not been easy.
538
00:32:54,657 --> 00:32:56,817
'But I would like
to come and see you,
539
00:32:56,857 --> 00:32:59,416
'so I'll send a request today.
540
00:32:59,456 --> 00:33:02,256
'Take care of yourself. Mark.'
541
00:33:02,296 --> 00:33:04,816
SHE SOBS
542
00:33:07,016 --> 00:33:08,495
I'm just not there.
543
00:33:09,535 --> 00:33:11,935
You don't have to apologise.
544
00:33:13,295 --> 00:33:14,415
HE SIGHS
545
00:33:15,735 --> 00:33:19,094
Maybe it's the baby,
just... HE EXHALES SHARPLY
546
00:33:19,134 --> 00:33:21,574
knowing I could never
do anything to hurt him.
547
00:33:25,014 --> 00:33:27,413
But either way,
I'm just not there.
548
00:33:35,812 --> 00:33:38,252
PEOPLE CHATTERING
549
00:34:12,048 --> 00:34:14,128
Mum?
550
00:34:35,006 --> 00:34:37,525
We didn't even know
until the trial
551
00:34:37,565 --> 00:34:39,525
that you'd been in
on it from the start.
552
00:34:40,925 --> 00:34:42,485
That when you hugged me
553
00:34:43,765 --> 00:34:45,205
that first night I came up
554
00:34:46,524 --> 00:34:47,764
you knew!
555
00:34:47,804 --> 00:34:49,684
I'm so sorry.
556
00:34:50,884 --> 00:34:53,204
Everything we found out, you
made us find out in public.
557
00:34:54,564 --> 00:34:56,843
Online, newspapers.
558
00:34:56,883 --> 00:34:59,123
In a bloody court room, Mam!
559
00:34:59,163 --> 00:35:01,203
And there is no excuse.
560
00:35:01,243 --> 00:35:03,043
A reason'd help.
561
00:35:03,083 --> 00:35:05,522
Why, after everything you'd
done, you still kept lying.
562
00:35:05,562 --> 00:35:09,162
For the same reason I ever
did, Mark, just the shame.
563
00:35:09,202 --> 00:35:11,882
The terrible, terrible
guilt and shame I felt.
564
00:35:11,922 --> 00:35:13,002
So it was about you, is it?
565
00:35:13,042 --> 00:35:15,041
H-How telling the truth
would make YOU feel?
566
00:35:15,081 --> 00:35:17,681
I knew it would break
your hearts, love.
567
00:35:17,721 --> 00:35:20,361
No, no, no, no. No!
No! You don't...
568
00:35:20,401 --> 00:35:22,720
Don't you dare cry! I'm sorry.
569
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,920
And I just kept thinking,
hoping, praying,
570
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,120
all along that there would
be some way I could fix it
571
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,519
before that had to happen,
but there just never was.
572
00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:33,999
No, you were probably
too preoccupied
573
00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:35,919
drinking pina
coladas on the beach!
574
00:35:56,557 --> 00:35:58,916
GRACE: 'What did you expect?'
575
00:35:58,956 --> 00:36:01,956
No more than what I got.
576
00:36:01,996 --> 00:36:05,236
ANNE SNIFFLES But I suppose...
577
00:36:05,276 --> 00:36:08,635
I thought I might be left
feeling a tiny scrap of hope.
578
00:36:08,675 --> 00:36:12,595
And again, I know I
don't deserve that, but
579
00:36:12,635 --> 00:36:14,995
it doesn't stop me
yearning for it.
580
00:36:15,035 --> 00:36:16,354
SHE SNIFFLES
581
00:36:17,914 --> 00:36:19,914
It's been so long.
582
00:36:21,434 --> 00:36:23,714
DOOR BUZZES Am I sorry?
583
00:36:24,914 --> 00:36:28,153
Well, that I got
caught, yes. Very!
584
00:36:33,113 --> 00:36:36,992
But seriously, of
course, if what I did
585
00:36:38,112 --> 00:36:40,512
upset you, then yes.
586
00:36:40,552 --> 00:36:42,592
Of course I'm sorry.
587
00:36:45,351 --> 00:36:47,191
Tell me about the
American woman.
588
00:36:48,551 --> 00:36:50,391
And all the others
you've been writing
589
00:36:50,431 --> 00:36:51,951
your shabby little letters to.
590
00:37:02,749 --> 00:37:04,669
'I know what should
be the first step.'
591
00:37:04,709 --> 00:37:05,989
"Should"?
592
00:37:06,029 --> 00:37:09,469
Well, because whether I could
actually do it not, I don't know.
593
00:37:09,509 --> 00:37:12,108
And what are we talking about?
594
00:37:13,828 --> 00:37:15,548
Leaving him.
595
00:37:16,708 --> 00:37:18,548
OK.
596
00:37:18,588 --> 00:37:22,107
And why might you not
be able to do that?
597
00:37:22,147 --> 00:37:24,187
I find the idea petrifying.
598
00:37:26,267 --> 00:37:29,586
Despite all the wrongs
you feel he's done you?
599
00:37:29,626 --> 00:37:31,026
Yes.
600
00:37:31,066 --> 00:37:35,786
And what specifically is
it that you're scared of?
601
00:37:36,826 --> 00:37:38,305
Everything.
602
00:37:40,865 --> 00:37:44,105
I've never lived any part
of my life on my own.
603
00:37:44,145 --> 00:37:48,424
I wouldn't know how to even
be, who I even am. I mean,
604
00:37:50,024 --> 00:37:52,064
for my entire adult life,
605
00:37:52,104 --> 00:37:54,504
I've just been an
extension of him, really.
606
00:37:55,623 --> 00:37:58,623
Or not even that,
just a nothing.
607
00:37:58,663 --> 00:37:59,863
Invisible.
608
00:38:01,103 --> 00:38:03,943
And so starting
again, from scratch
609
00:38:05,502 --> 00:38:09,422
trying to create a new me
at the age of nearly 60
610
00:38:10,902 --> 00:38:13,141
it makes me sick
with fear, Grace.
611
00:38:14,781 --> 00:38:17,701
Slightly different tack.
Does John make you happy?
612
00:38:17,741 --> 00:38:19,661
He has done at
times in our life.
613
00:38:19,701 --> 00:38:21,461
I'm not happy now, obviously,
614
00:38:21,501 --> 00:38:23,900
and haven't been much in
the last ten years or so,
615
00:38:23,940 --> 00:38:25,580
but before that, yes.
616
00:38:25,620 --> 00:38:29,340
But on balance? Would you
say he's been good for you?
617
00:38:35,659 --> 00:38:37,659
He gave me two beautiful sons.
618
00:38:38,939 --> 00:38:43,298
'I knew what she wanted me to say,
but as ridiculous as it may seem.
619
00:38:44,538 --> 00:38:47,378
'I just didn't feel strong
enough to be on my own.'
620
00:38:51,297 --> 00:38:54,657
He's beautiful, mate.
Must have Lou's genes.
621
00:38:54,697 --> 00:38:57,097
Well, I bloody hope so.
622
00:38:57,137 --> 00:38:59,456
Wouldn't want too many
of our side in there.
623
00:39:01,056 --> 00:39:03,016
No, fair enough.
624
00:39:06,576 --> 00:39:09,375
Flick was just saying you
saw her again last week.
625
00:39:10,655 --> 00:39:11,855
Yeah.
626
00:39:14,415 --> 00:39:16,174
And how was it?
627
00:39:18,014 --> 00:39:19,414
It's still hard.
628
00:39:21,014 --> 00:39:23,414
I'm not quite sure
what I'm hoping for.
629
00:39:24,734 --> 00:39:26,173
I think...
630
00:39:28,693 --> 00:39:30,573
I think I've just
come to the conclusion
631
00:39:30,613 --> 00:39:32,853
that I'd prefer to have
her in my life than not.
632
00:39:36,972 --> 00:39:38,492
Dad?
633
00:39:40,492 --> 00:39:42,092
Harder.
634
00:39:44,291 --> 00:39:46,131
I'm not sure he really gets it.
635
00:39:47,211 --> 00:39:48,731
Or ever will.
636
00:39:52,330 --> 00:39:55,250
So, I wrote to her yesterday.
637
00:39:58,370 --> 00:39:59,970
Requested a visit.
638
00:40:01,849 --> 00:40:03,049
OK.
639
00:40:06,169 --> 00:40:09,529
So... all I'll say
640
00:40:13,088 --> 00:40:17,528
just don't expect any...
blinding moment of forgiveness.
641
00:40:17,568 --> 00:40:19,367
Cos my guess is that
ain't gonna happen.
642
00:40:21,687 --> 00:40:25,007
I think it's just gonna
be this very long, slow
643
00:40:27,647 --> 00:40:29,366
accommodation.
644
00:40:35,486 --> 00:40:37,085
DOOR CLOSING
645
00:40:58,203 --> 00:40:59,363
Hello, Mam.
646
00:40:59,403 --> 00:41:01,283
Hello, love. Thank
you so much coming.
647
00:41:01,323 --> 00:41:02,603
I'm so pleased to see you.
648
00:41:02,643 --> 00:41:05,442
Well, I couldn't not let you
meet this little fella, could I?
649
00:41:12,122 --> 00:41:14,561
I don't know what to
say. How old is he?
650
00:41:14,601 --> 00:41:16,281
He's four months now.
651
00:41:16,321 --> 00:41:18,601
He's beautiful.
652
00:41:18,641 --> 00:41:20,801
He takes after his mother.
653
00:41:20,841 --> 00:41:24,040
Who asked me to say hello and
that she sends you her love.
654
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:25,560
That's incredibly kind of her.
655
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,560
Please send her my love
and huge congratulations.
656
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:33,679
Would you like to hold him?
657
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,239
I would, very much.
658
00:41:54,757 --> 00:41:56,357
BABY FUSSES
659
00:41:56,397 --> 00:41:58,196
Aw...
660
00:41:58,236 --> 00:42:00,676
'It was an extraordinary
act of generosity
661
00:42:02,036 --> 00:42:04,436
'that I didn't deserve.
662
00:42:04,476 --> 00:42:06,316
'And it finally
gave me the strength
663
00:42:06,356 --> 00:42:09,595
'to do what I had needed
to do for so long.'
664
00:42:09,635 --> 00:42:11,075
BABY BABBLES, SHE LAUGHS
665
00:42:13,995 --> 00:42:15,674
PHONE RINGS
666
00:42:17,834 --> 00:42:18,914
Hello?
667
00:42:18,954 --> 00:42:20,794
What the hell's going on?
668
00:42:20,834 --> 00:42:23,874
You've stopped writing. You
haven't been taking my calls.
669
00:42:23,914 --> 00:42:25,433
Why?
670
00:42:25,473 --> 00:42:27,353
You don't make me happy, John.
671
00:42:28,433 --> 00:42:31,193
I think you haven't
for many years.
672
00:42:31,233 --> 00:42:32,633
You don't hear me.
673
00:42:32,673 --> 00:42:35,472
'You don't listen to me...'
That is total rubbish, Anne.
674
00:42:35,512 --> 00:42:37,872
'You don't know what you're...'
You're not listening now.
675
00:42:37,912 --> 00:42:41,672
Just stop talking, please. Just
stop always talking and listen.
676
00:42:42,711 --> 00:42:45,391
But much more important
than any of that,
677
00:42:45,431 --> 00:42:48,471
I don't think you love me, John.
678
00:42:48,511 --> 00:42:50,071
I do.
679
00:42:50,111 --> 00:42:52,590
I do love you, Anne, very much.
680
00:42:53,950 --> 00:42:56,550
Or why would I have stayed
with you for all these years?
681
00:42:58,790 --> 00:43:00,869
'Don't do this.'
682
00:43:00,909 --> 00:43:04,789
Don't throw 36 years and
two smashing boys away.
683
00:43:04,829 --> 00:43:07,549
'We can be happy again.'
684
00:43:07,589 --> 00:43:09,548
I promise we can.
685
00:43:09,588 --> 00:43:11,868
No.
686
00:43:11,908 --> 00:43:14,708
I don't think you do love me.
687
00:43:14,748 --> 00:43:18,387
Or maybe you just don't
know what proper love is.
688
00:43:18,427 --> 00:43:20,027
Please.
689
00:43:20,067 --> 00:43:24,307
And either way... I
don't love you any more.
690
00:43:24,347 --> 00:43:26,027
You've hurt me too much.
691
00:43:26,067 --> 00:43:28,706
You do love me. 'No.'
692
00:43:31,146 --> 00:43:34,586
No, I don't. And
I want a divorce.
693
00:43:54,903 --> 00:43:58,063
'About eight months
before my release,
694
00:43:58,103 --> 00:44:00,543
'I was transferred
to an open prison
695
00:44:00,583 --> 00:44:03,942
'to help prepare me for
my return to normal life.
696
00:44:05,582 --> 00:44:11,382
'And then in March 2011, a
few days shy of nine years
697
00:44:11,422 --> 00:44:14,581
'since John had
paddled out to sea,
698
00:44:14,621 --> 00:44:17,941
'I was released to a
halfway house in Leeds.
699
00:44:23,340 --> 00:44:25,340
'I was finally free.
700
00:44:32,619 --> 00:44:35,699
'I'm not sure I'll
ever truly understand
701
00:44:35,739 --> 00:44:37,939
'why I made the choices I did.
702
00:44:37,979 --> 00:44:42,378
'It was, as my counsellor
said, complicated.
703
00:44:44,138 --> 00:44:45,898
'My children still struggle
704
00:44:45,938 --> 00:44:49,377
'and will certainly never be able
to forget what I did to them,
705
00:44:49,417 --> 00:44:50,777
'nor should they.
706
00:44:52,057 --> 00:44:54,097
'We all know we're on a journey
707
00:44:54,137 --> 00:44:56,377
'that will last the
rest of our lives,
708
00:44:58,016 --> 00:45:00,376
'but we are at least
on that journey.
709
00:45:01,696 --> 00:45:03,976
'And for that gift,
710
00:45:04,016 --> 00:45:06,655
'I remain more grateful to them
711
00:45:06,695 --> 00:45:09,735
'than it will ever be
possible to express.
712
00:45:16,174 --> 00:45:21,214
'They say the opposite of love
is not hate, but indifference,
713
00:45:21,254 --> 00:45:24,413
'which is what I now
feel for my ex-husband.
714
00:45:28,413 --> 00:45:30,773
'But I wish him well
715
00:45:30,813 --> 00:45:33,252
'and sincerely hope
that he finds happiness.
716
00:45:35,172 --> 00:45:36,852
'I will try to do the same.
717
00:45:38,892 --> 00:45:43,131
'I will also keep
trying to find me.'
718
00:46:20,527 --> 00:46:22,527
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