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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,720 'Right, Des, it's John Motson here.' 'Yes, John.' 2 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,480 'We have a lot of people hurt here today. 3 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,120 'I have to say, from my position up here, 4 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,720 'it would appear serious injuries.' 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,120 'In my view, the culprits of Hillsborough 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,640 'were those yobs who turned up just before the match 7 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,800 'and tried to force their way in and did force their way in. 8 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,920 'They are responsible for the deaths of innocent people.' 9 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,040 'The charge has been made 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,040 'that there has been a cover-up - 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,920 'an attempt to pervert the course of justice.' 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,360 # Things 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,200 # Can only get better 14 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:54,560 # Can only get better... # 15 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,360 Hey, there's a few going in. 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:57,600 I know, it looks quite busy. 17 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,800 Up the Labour! 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,800 'We have been elected 19 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,240 'as New Labour and we will govern as New Labour.' 20 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:15,760 There you go. 21 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,040 New Labour, new inquests. 22 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,800 Hey-hey! New Labour! 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,840 'Because, as a party today, 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,080 'we represent the whole of this nation.' 25 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,720 So the first thing to say is 26 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,800 this is a judicial scrutiny. 27 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,560 The New Labour government has appointed a senior judge 28 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:42,600 to look over all the evidence again 29 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,000 and assess whether there are grounds for new inquests. 30 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,600 Well, we know there's grounds for new inquests. Hang on, hang on! 31 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,480 This is Labour we're talking about. 32 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,520 Different mindset, don't you think? 33 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,840 But we'll take nothing for granted, OK? 34 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,600 So, he's allocated three days for the families. 35 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,840 What? Three days? 36 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,200 Doesn't sound like much. 37 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,000 Each one, each family gets an individual slot 38 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:08,720 to make their presentation. 39 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,000 What about this judge - do we know any more? 40 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,280 The Home Secretary has appointed Sir Murray Stuart-Smith 41 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,880 to review all evidence that has not yet been presented 42 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:20,000 at any of the previous inquests or inquiries, so there's the rub. 43 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,040 It has to be new evidence. 44 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,120 Labour wants this looked at again. 45 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,200 We just need to provide them with the ammo. 46 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,480 So let's get to it. 47 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,760 We don't give Stuart-Smith any choice but to order new inquests. 48 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,720 You're right. Yeah. 49 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,480 Come on. OK. Good. 50 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,760 Dad? 51 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,200 What's it like? 52 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:41,560 Living on your own? 53 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,000 It's... 54 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:44,160 It's different. 55 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:45,960 Don't you ever get lonely? 56 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,080 At first, I did, yes. 57 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,080 But I didn't think it was going to last forever. 58 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:54,760 I missed my little mophead, didn't I, eh? 59 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:57,720 And I still do. 60 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,080 Why do you ask? 61 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,760 Ever since high school, 62 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,000 I've been Kevin's sister. 63 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:11,160 I dunno, I... 64 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,760 I just want to do something for myself, you know? Just be me. 65 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,760 Is that awful? No, love. No. 66 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,280 It's normal. 67 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:26,560 Have you told your mother? 68 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,280 No! It's like... 69 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,640 she senses what's coming every time I pluck up the courage. 70 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,360 You're 18, love. Nearly 18. 71 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,680 So you can make your own decisions, then, can't you? 72 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:37,840 Hm? 73 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,760 You are entitled to your own life, darling. 74 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,160 Sheila? 75 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,160 Sorry I'm late. I got a bit lost. 76 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,280 Are you all right? 77 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,320 He's got his offices here? 78 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,560 I did tell you, Elkan's a bit different. 79 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,160 Come on! 80 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:57,960 Time to get you a new solicitor. 81 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,400 Thanks. 82 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:04,960 There you go. Thank you. 83 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,920 I've followed your case since The Cook Report, now. 84 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,200 And even then, your evidence stood out as being so strong. 85 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:12,400 I remember saying to my wife, 86 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,240 "Let's see how they wriggle out of this one." 87 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,680 Elkan was the first lawyer to sue the police after the Toxteth riots. 88 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,200 Well, I don't know if I was the first, 89 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,440 but thanks, anyway. There are similarities, though, 90 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:22,920 aren't there, with our case? 91 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:24,960 The police seem to think they're unaccountable. 92 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,320 We have to make them think again. 93 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:27,720 There, I do agree. Listen, 94 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,400 whoever represents you when you meet Stuart-Smith... 95 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,080 I really do think the role of the West Midlands Police 96 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:34,800 needs to be looked at much more closely. 97 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:37,120 And, well, as it turns out, their investigation 98 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,560 wasn't quite as thorough as it should have been. 99 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:40,960 Well, I think... 100 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,760 there's grounds for new inquests. 101 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,120 'Seabird' by The Alessi Brothers 102 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,200 # You've been away from land Too long 103 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,560 # Far too long... # 104 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,280 Whoa, whoa, whoa - don't stand on those! 105 00:04:58,320 --> 00:04:59,720 That's Kev's body file. 106 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,280 His body file? 107 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,480 What's in it? Everything. 108 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,440 Witness statements, photos, 109 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,840 Kev's continuity chart from the first inquest. 110 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,520 You know, all his movements on the day. 111 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,600 Mum, I... They want everything new, anything that wasn't seen 112 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,200 at any of the previous inquiries. Mum! 113 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,640 Can I talk to you about something? 114 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:18,560 Of course. 115 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,120 I found a flat. 116 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:27,600 Who for? 117 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:33,760 You're moving out? 118 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:38,280 Oh. 119 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,600 Well, our Mike's still here, you won't be on your own. 120 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,680 Well, your dad won't be very happy. 121 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:45,960 Oh, right. 122 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,440 Oh, thanks, Steve. Dad thinks it'll do me good. 123 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:50,800 Yeah, well... 124 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:52,120 You dad's right. 125 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:53,720 You know, love. You just... 126 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,720 You just do whatever you need to, eh? 127 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,160 Mum... 128 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:58,800 Come on. 129 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:03,880 I'm sorry, love. 130 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,360 I'm not cross. 131 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,880 I'm just not ready to let you go yet! 132 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,160 Come here! Mum! 133 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:14,680 Ohh... 134 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:18,480 Go on, you. 135 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,840 Go and find me Dr West's report, will you? 136 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:24,440 What? 137 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:41,240 'Families of those who died at Hillsborough have campaigned 138 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:43,520 'for years for a fresh inquiry into the disaster. 139 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,760 'Meetings over the next three days could be their best chance yet. 140 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,040 '16 families will present what they say is a compelling case 141 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:52,400 'for a new inquiry 142 00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,240 'into the circumstances leading to the Hillsborough disaster.' 143 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:05,880 God, so many journalists. 144 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:07,480 Morning. 145 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:08,800 Pleased to meet you. 146 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:12,080 Hiya, Sir Murray. Anne Williams. Oh, dear, your hands are very cold. 147 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:13,960 Well, I've had a very long wait, Sir Murray. 148 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,080 Do you have some of your people here? 149 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,600 Or are they like the Liverpool fans, 150 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,560 they turn up at the last minute? 151 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,480 Did you hear that? 152 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,200 He serious? 153 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,360 Well, sir, incomplete evidence 154 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,720 would be the first thing we'd want you to look at. 155 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,360 Not just from PC Bruder and WPC Martin, 156 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,600 but from members of the Ambulance Service, 157 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,080 reputable pathologists... 158 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,960 all of whom had their evidence ignored, 159 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,680 or misunderstood, too. 160 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,440 Following on from this is the coroner's decision 161 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,000 to deem evidence after 3:15pm irrelevant and inadmissible. 162 00:07:55,040 --> 00:08:00,680 We strenuously resist the 3:15 cut-off, sir. 163 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,280 It means evidence Kevin might have been alive after that 164 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:04,920 has not been properly considered. 165 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,560 Dr West says Kevin died 166 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,200 from damage to the airways 167 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,520 providing oxygen to the lungs - it's treatable. 168 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:18,400 Treatable if the necessary medical resources are available. 169 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,480 We contend that Kevin could have been saved, summary. 170 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,560 So what Dr West is saying is if a tracheotomy had been performed, 171 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,160 it's possible that it might have saved his life. 172 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,360 Yes, and, sorry, can I just point out 173 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,840 that Dr Slater, who did the post-mortem, 174 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,040 he put down Kevin's injuries as chest injuries? 175 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,400 That was on the Form 99. Now, that was wrong. 176 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,560 We wrote to the coroner and pointed this out and, well... 177 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,560 then, Dr Slater, he then rectified his mistake. 178 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,400 But I understand Dr Slater hasn't changed his opinion 179 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,400 of Kevin's cause of death? Yes, sir, that's correct. 180 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,600 But if he was wrong about that, 181 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,240 then what else could he be wrong about? 182 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,000 If we can just look at what happened after 3:15, 183 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,360 then, you see, it throws up a whole range of questions. 184 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,480 I mean, why wasn't there somebody there 185 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,280 who could perform a tracheotomy? 186 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,680 I mean, why wasn't there more ambulances? 187 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,840 And why is PC Bruder's evidence not being given the credence... 188 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,000 well, it so clearly deserves? 189 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,960 The police heard over 3,500 statements. 190 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,640 And the coroner had to select which witness to call, 191 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:25,080 which witness to summarise... 192 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,840 So the mere fact that a witness came to light now 193 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,720 whose evidence was not called, 194 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,160 or was not summarised, 195 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,320 does not seem to me to necessarily give rise to the inference 196 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,920 that it was improper. It seems to me that... 197 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,360 well, there's an argument 198 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,880 that one should at least follow the paper trail. 199 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,160 All the evidence should be investigated. 200 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,000 I don't wish to jump to conclusions, 201 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:07,280 Mrs Williams. 202 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,400 It may be at the end of the day 203 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,080 that I'm not able to recommend fresh inquests. 204 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:15,560 But, 205 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,920 I might be able to ascertain with a greater clarity... 206 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,720 what happened to Kevin in the last three quarters of an hour. 207 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,760 Look, I KNOW what happened to Kevin. 208 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,080 I have tracked EVERYBODY down. 209 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,160 I have spoken to all those people. You know, I have spent... 210 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,120 hours and hours with forensic pathologists... 211 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:34,760 That might well be so. 212 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,000 Please. 213 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,120 Sir Murray, you know... 214 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,840 this is all I have left now of my son, his memories. 215 00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:48,680 Please. Look at him. 216 00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:54,400 Let me put my son to rest. 217 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,080 Grant us a new inquest. 218 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:03,000 You did brilliantly there. 219 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,240 Um, you go on, I'll catch you outside. OK. 220 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,000 PC Bruder... 221 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,280 Mrs Williams! Hello! 222 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:18,960 Hiya! 223 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,200 Well, I'm... I'm so glad they called you in. 224 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:24,520 They didn't. 225 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:26,240 What? Nobody got in touch. 226 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,960 I read about it in the Echo and wrote to the judge myself. 227 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,840 Well, in that case, 228 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,480 even more thanks. 229 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,080 Here y'are... 230 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:40,560 What's he like? 231 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,640 Well, he's a bit scary at first, but... 232 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:45,400 he does listen. Just... 233 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,480 Don't let him talk down to you. 234 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,000 No, I won't. 235 00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,040 I'll just tell him the truth. 236 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,120 Thank you. 237 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:56,480 I mean it. 238 00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,200 I told you I would. 239 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:00,800 I know, it's just... Well... 240 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,960 It's not very often people do what they say they're gonna do. 241 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:07,480 PC Bruder? 242 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:08,640 Yep. 243 00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:10,640 This way, please. 244 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,440 Good luck. Thanks. 245 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:16,720 See ya. See ya. 246 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:27,720 I suppose I'd... 247 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,320 ..better... 248 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,440 ..or I'll never leave! 249 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,080 I'm always here for you. 250 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:41,440 Don't. 251 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:44,440 Sara, are you ready? 252 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:45,480 Yeah, one sec. 253 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:48,920 Come on. 254 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:52,560 You know, and... 255 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,880 Well, your room's always there. 256 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:58,880 I love you. 257 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,040 I love you. 258 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:04,600 Right. Go on. 259 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:07,720 Good afternoon. 260 00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:14,080 And may I simply start by thanking you all 261 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,720 for making the journey down once more? 262 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:23,400 Our objective in ordering this extensive scrutiny 263 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,360 was to assess the quality 264 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,480 of any new evidence 265 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,920 and whether that evidence 266 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,880 is significant enough to order new inquiries 267 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,320 into the deaths of your loved ones. 268 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,400 Lord Stuart-Smith has presided over a prolonged 269 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,120 and very diligent process. 270 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,480 So I am genuinely sorry... 271 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,720 ..not to be able to give you the outcome I know 272 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,920 you all so dearly hoped for. 273 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,760 This has been a thorough and impartial process, 274 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,080 handled with great care. 275 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,000 And as you are all well aware, 276 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,920 the standard of evidence required 277 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,120 is significant. 278 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,000 You have my sympathies. 279 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,920 It's a stitch-up. 280 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,280 Lip service from start to finish. 281 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,040 'Angry Hillsborough families 282 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,040 'were told of Mr Straw's decision in a private meeting 283 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:51,520 'with the Home Secretary, 284 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,040 'and did not stay in the Commons for his statement. 285 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,080 'There was to be no new public inquiry, 286 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,400 'no new inquest, no new action 287 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,080 'by the Director of Public Prosecutions.' 288 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,640 It's a sad day for the families, 289 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,240 and we think it's an exceptionally sad day for Britain. 290 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,640 We say, New Labour, new cover-up. 291 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:13,600 We asked for that. 292 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,600 We've been way too passive since Labour got in. 293 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:21,360 We just sat there... 294 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,120 ..and expected justice to take its course. 295 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,760 Different party, same message. 296 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,200 It's not just today, it's everywhere. 297 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,920 "Football fans are scum." John... 298 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,440 No, he's right, Teresa. 299 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:36,920 It's how most people think. 300 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,560 There's a part of them thinks we deserve this. 301 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,200 Let's take this as our wake-up call. 302 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,480 We need to embrace the survivors 303 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,160 in the fight for justice. 304 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,080 I think we need a brand-new start. 305 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,760 When we get home, 306 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,720 we need to tap into the energy and the anger 307 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,160 of all those people who've got in touch over the years 308 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,760 who were desperate to get involved. 309 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,440 I mean it, now's the time. 310 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,320 We need a new group. 311 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,840 'I've never been any good at telling people what to do.' 312 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,080 'Don't be so wet - just get on with it! 313 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,440 'Was that necessary?' 'Well... 314 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,360 'Girl would try the patience of a saint.' 315 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,160 Oh, good. 316 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,520 Got yourself something to eat. 317 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,360 I've saved you some there. 318 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,800 I'm all right, love. 319 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,160 I had a butty on the train. 320 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,000 I'm sorry, you know. 321 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,200 Honestly, love... 322 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,240 ..I'm done with it. 323 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:09,920 I think. 324 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:12,800 I don't know. 325 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,680 I am this close to packing it all in. 326 00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:26,520 Are you OK, love? 327 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:27,800 Yeah. 328 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:28,960 Yeah, I'm sound. 329 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:32,960 Are you sure, love? 330 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,640 I've been so wrapped up in all this... 331 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,120 Can't have been easy for you. 332 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,560 Oh, don't - pack it in, Mum. 333 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,920 I don't need to know all the details, 334 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,640 and I REALLY don't want to talk about it 335 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,320 day in and day out, but I'm glad you're doing it. 336 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:53,560 I am. 337 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,480 I'm proud of you. 338 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,080 Mum! 339 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:17,400 It's all set up. 340 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,760 Right! 341 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,000 Wow! 342 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,920 Go on, have a mess! 343 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:45,760 And now, the good bit. 344 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:56,840 Brilliant! 345 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,880 So you can write as many letters as you want now! 346 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,520 Who says I'm writing letters? 347 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,000 River! 348 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,120 Come on. 349 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,280 I was tired of it all. 350 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,200 I just wanted people to hear it, you know? 351 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,040 All the evidence we found, 352 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,560 everything we'd been through - 353 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,160 so I put it all down in a book. 354 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,680 I've called it When You Walk Through The Storm. 355 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,280 That's nice. 356 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,480 So, are you going to grace the new group with your presence, madam? 357 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,600 I like the name, Hillsborough Justice Campaign. 358 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,120 It's good, isn't it? Yeah. 359 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,240 Gets right to the heart of what we're about. 360 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,760 Like John said, we needed a complete new start, 361 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,480 so that's what we've done. 362 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,000 It was always you who said get the fans and survivors on board, Anne. 363 00:20:58,360 --> 00:20:59,360 I know. 364 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:00,640 Come on! 365 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:02,880 Get involved again. 366 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:10,720 I'll think about it. 367 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,560 OK. I'll take that. 368 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,040 Can you sign here, please? Yeah. 369 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,720 Thank you. Ta. 370 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,840 Um, Sheila Coleman said you might stock my book for me. 371 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,200 Right. Well, hello. 372 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,680 I'm Peter. Lovely day we're having, pleased to meet you. 373 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,000 Sorry! 374 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,480 I'm Anne, Anne Williams. 375 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,040 And I lost my boy at Hillsborough, Kevin - our Kev. 376 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,400 I know. 377 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,200 Well, I've written a book about him. 378 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,200 Well, it's about everything that happened. 379 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,840 Of course we'll stock it for you, it kind of goes without saying. 380 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,320 Where else are you selling it? 381 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:01,960 Er... I don't know. 382 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,400 See, I've never done anything like this before. 383 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:05,960 Well... 384 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,440 Come on. 385 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,880 Wha'? 386 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,120 I've got me van outside, we'll go round all the bookshops. 387 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,320 Have they had you on Radio Merseyside yet? 388 00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:16,040 No, no... 389 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,760 Oh, Jesus! 390 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,640 Well, I know a guy that knows a guy... 391 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,840 that knows a guy that knows some fella... 392 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,680 I bet you do! I do! 393 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,120 Anyway, I hope you enjoy. Thank you. 394 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,840 Nice to speak to you. You too, bye. 395 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:38,920 And thanks! 396 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,880 They were very nice in there. 397 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,920 They said they'd give me a call 398 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,840 if they need any more books. 399 00:23:58,480 --> 00:23:59,640 Are you OK? 400 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,760 You were there, weren't you? 401 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,160 Yeah. 402 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,880 Me and my mate, we went into Leppings Lane. 403 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,240 And as soon as I went into that tunnel, I wished I hadn't. 404 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,200 The weight of that crowd... 405 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,440 It turned me around. 406 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,360 I went in with my back to the pitch. 407 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,120 And it just got tighter... 408 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,280 ..and tighter and tighter. 409 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,320 Do you know the thing that gets me most, 410 00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:54,120 even now, over and over? 411 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,680 Those coppers, they were right there. 412 00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:02,840 They were right there and they could see what was happening. 413 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:04,920 And they just... 414 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,200 ..stood there... 415 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:09,280 ..and watched. 416 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,720 There was people at the front, 417 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,240 just-just in front of me, 418 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:19,800 and they were pressed 419 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,080 right up against the railings - I mean right up. 420 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:25,480 They were going purple. 421 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,240 So many of them were kids. 422 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,280 Did we mean so little to them? 423 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,480 Everyone thought that because we got out, we were the lucky ones. 424 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,880 We got out, but we've got no voice. 425 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,080 But you do have a voice, Peter. 426 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,280 You know, my Kev... 427 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,720 he can't tell me what happened in those last minutes... 428 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,080 ..but YOU can. 429 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,240 And you have to. 430 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,840 'David Duckenfield was the man in command of policing Hillsborough. 431 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,240 'He was the man accused by the victims' families 432 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,960 'of being responsible for their deaths. 433 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,560 'Today, Duckenfield walked away 434 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,000 'from court - the jury couldn't reach a verdict. 435 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,280 'The memories remain, too, 436 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,400 'for the families of the Hillsborough victims. 437 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,680 'They travelled across to Leeds from Liverpool every day 438 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,320 'to watch every minute of the six-week trial.' 439 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,080 Thank you. 440 00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:09,400 See ya later. 441 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,120 I do miss Steve, Teresa. 442 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,560 Course I do, 443 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:20,920 but, you know, 444 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,520 after a time, you do get used to being on your own. 445 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,240 I actually quite like it. 446 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,360 I don't know what I'd do with myself. 447 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,160 And I certainly don't know what he'd do. 448 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,640 All right, mate? All right, mate. 449 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,400 Can I help you, love? 450 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,520 Do you...? 451 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,840 Do you want to talk to somebody? 452 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,400 Come and sit down. 453 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:11,880 What's your name? 454 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,360 Colin. Hiya, Colin. 455 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:15,640 I'm Anne. 456 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:16,920 You all right? 457 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,120 Yeah. 458 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:20,360 There you go, love. 459 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:21,560 Ta. 460 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:26,440 So, are you going to the match? 461 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:27,760 Er, yeah. 462 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,320 Did you lose someone, Colin? 463 00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:36,560 At Hillsborough? 464 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,240 Well, not on the day, you know. 465 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,080 Not in the ground. 466 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,200 He was me best mate. 467 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,800 He, um... 468 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,960 He never really got over it, you know? 469 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,240 Some of the things he'd seen... 470 00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,640 that day. 471 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,400 He could... He couldn't live with it, you know? 472 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,200 Hey. 473 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,960 I'm sorry, I just miss him so much. 474 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,840 Hey, it's all right. 475 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,920 Come and sit down, will you? 476 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,720 Have you got any Cornettos? 477 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,560 Cornettos? You're just about to have your tea! 478 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,480 Just fancy a nice mint Cornetto. 479 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,320 You're not pregnant, are you? 480 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,560 Oh, my God. 481 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,000 You are, aren't you? 482 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,720 Sara, you've just turned 20! 483 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,640 Same age as you were when you had our Mike. 484 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,120 Well, that was then! 485 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,320 How do you feel about it? 486 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,000 A bit scared, like, 487 00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,880 but it's brilliant, I'm made up! 488 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:01,240 Come here! 489 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,840 So am I! 490 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,360 Right. 491 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,160 Well, that's made my mind up, then. 492 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,760 What has? About what? 493 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,840 You can't stay in that little flat, can you? 494 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,560 You're going to have to move in here. 495 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,120 Well, there's no room in here. 496 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,960 Well, there will be when I move out. 497 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,000 Look, I have been thinking about it for a while. 498 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,280 No, Mum. No. 499 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:26,520 Yes, Mum. 500 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,720 Yes. 501 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:30,720 I want you to. 502 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:57,760 'Are you sure you're gonna be OK?' 503 00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,360 Will you behave? 504 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,200 Well, erm... 505 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,440 See you later, then, yeah? Yeah. 506 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,640 See you, love. 507 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:19,800 Mum! 508 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,040 'It's all down to this...' 509 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,400 'Shevchenko... 510 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,360 'Ohhhhh! 511 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,480 'Liverpool! They've done it! 512 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,240 'In the most dramatic fashion ever seen! 513 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,720 'And the European Cup is coming back to Anfield!' 514 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,040 Hiya! You all right? 515 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,720 Ooh! Thank you. 516 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,600 Cheers, thanks. 517 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:06,760 'So, look,' 518 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,320 the last thing any of us wants 519 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,880 is to unfairly raise your expectations, 520 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,360 but we're quite excited by this case 521 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,200 that's just come through the European Court of Human Rights. 522 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,520 With respect, Elkan, the court rejected 523 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,480 the Family Support Group's private prosecutions. 524 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,240 So why is Europe gonna care? 525 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,960 Hear him out, Anne, he's on our side. 526 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,600 It's fine, she's right. 527 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,000 Who knows if it will, but it could be worth us looking very closely 528 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,840 at this updated Article 2 - the right to life. 529 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,320 Now, look, 530 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,320 our argument would be that Kevin 531 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,680 was essentially in the hands of the state when he died, 532 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,720 so the state has a duty of care to properly investigate his death. 533 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,880 And if we can show that that has not, so far, 534 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,400 been the case, then... 535 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,440 there's a possible route to a new inquest. 536 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,880 You think? Look, it's gonna take time. 537 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,200 Let's be in no doubt about that. 538 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,920 I mean, before we even get to Europe, 539 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,400 we've got to resubmit with the UK Attorney General. 540 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,360 What about the other families? I mean... 541 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,120 Well, they want justice, too. 542 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,520 I know what you're saying, but, look... 543 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,440 there hasn't been a significant breakthrough 544 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,840 for quite some time now, 545 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,320 and a successful new submission will, of course, benefit everyone. 546 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,400 If we can get Kevin through Europe, 547 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,040 it'll... 548 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,480 It'll open things up for everyone. 549 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,640 Let me think about it. 550 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,600 So, that's where I stand. 551 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,760 The legal team have made it crystal clear 552 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,280 that this is basically a test case, 553 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,520 and it is just Kev at this point. 554 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:37,760 Tell us something new. 555 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,600 It's always just Kev with you, isn't it? 556 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,080 You do know that "all for one" doesn't necessarily mean 557 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,840 all for "one", don't you? 558 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,000 That's not fair. Come on, let's keep this decent. 559 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,800 No, no, look, he's got a point. 560 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,360 Maybe it is about Kev for me. 561 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,040 But then I am Kev's mum. 562 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,440 If I can get Kevin through, 563 00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,520 then everyone else gets through, too. 564 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,640 "Our Kev" first, though, eh? 565 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,000 There's no need for that. 566 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,720 We should just support Anne come what may. 567 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,560 Surely, anything that keeps people talking about Hillsborough 568 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,280 and keeps us in the spotlight can only be a good thing? 569 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,480 No. It's a basic matter of principle. 570 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,240 Come on. This is who we are. 571 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,680 The collective, not the individual. 572 00:34:19,720 --> 00:34:23,280 You know what? I didn't expect a round of applause. 573 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,480 But I did hope most of you would understand. 574 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,160 Comments like that don't help, do they? 575 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,600 I'm trying to keep it in the group. 576 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,520 Listen, let's have a little five-minute break. Cool it down. 577 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,320 Come back in five minutes, have a cup of tea and talk about it, yeah? 578 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:38,680 Anne! 579 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,000 They will support you, you know. 580 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,200 There's always one or two needs to let off steam, 581 00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:46,280 but we will always support you, you know that. 582 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,720 Look, I feel like I'm always battling. 583 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,480 I do not want to be put in a position 584 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,920 where I have to justify how I feel about my boy. 585 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,320 I'm going it alone. 586 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,120 Me and Kev - I'm done with it. 587 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:15,760 Hiya, love. 588 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:26,920 There we go. 589 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:29,680 I brought you a hardy perennial. 590 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:31,080 Just like your mum! 591 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,640 You know, Kev... 592 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,840 ..it's been 20 years. 593 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,200 I can't believe it. 594 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,200 I miss you so much. 595 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,360 There's not a day goes by that I don't think of you. 596 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:57,800 I love you. 597 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,960 Right - let's get this planted, shall we? 598 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,640 Cos it's freezin'! 599 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:21,640 Come on, then. 600 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,120 Give it to me straight. 601 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,280 It's a no from Europe. 602 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:31,440 Why? 603 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,240 Out of time. 604 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:36,160 Out of time?! 605 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,400 I'm so sorry. 606 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,160 Ha! 607 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,200 They've said we should've put our application in 608 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:43,600 within six months of the Stuart-Smith verdict. 609 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,200 Four years, for this? 610 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,280 I'm sorry, Anne. 611 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,560 God knows how you must feel. 612 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:54,800 Hm. 613 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,320 You know, 614 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,120 I'm waiting for you to go, "April Fool!" 615 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,320 Wow. 616 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:13,960 20 years. 617 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:19,920 Yeah, well, you know what? 618 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,560 Maybe I am the fool for keeping on. 619 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:26,880 Hm. 620 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,800 'There's gonna be a documentary to mark the 20th anniversary, Anne. 621 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,160 'We've got an incredibly moving interview with Jenni Hicks,' 622 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,200 talking about the ride back from Hillsborough on the day, 623 00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:43,800 and that's the theme I want to expand on. 624 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,800 The mother's journey. 625 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,360 And I just wondered... 626 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,840 ..whether you might go back with me? 627 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,120 To Hillsborough? 628 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:53,800 Oh, Christian, that's a no. 629 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,560 You do know I've never actually been inside the ground? 630 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,800 I realise it's gonna be hard, Anne, but it has to be - 631 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,440 for the full impact to land with our listeners. 632 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,120 It's the 20th anniversary. 633 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,280 20 years, still no justice. 634 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,280 We have to make our listeners understand that. 635 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,280 We have to make 'em feel what you feel. 636 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:17,840 Well, then... 637 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,960 ..I think I need to take someone with me. 638 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,400 You know, someone who was actually there in the pens. 639 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,520 Someone who can tell your listeners what it was really like. 640 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,280 One-two, one-two-three, one-two. 641 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,080 Anne, you never actually wanted to set foot 642 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,640 inside this football stadium, did you? 643 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,040 No... 644 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,280 Well, a lot of the families did come back in the beginning, and... 645 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,600 well, I did want to go inside the ground, but... 646 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,360 I suppose at the time, I was... Well, I was just too ill, you know? 647 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,800 Steve, what's going through your head, as you stand here now? 648 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,240 20 years on, what do you remember? 649 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:17,840 I dunno. 650 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,120 It's scary. 651 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,920 I remember, erm... 652 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,920 coming through the turnstiles... 653 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,560 I was waiting for me mate. 654 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,400 And that's... That's where they opened the gates, the exit gates. 655 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,320 I saw two policemen walk over 656 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,280 and order the steward to open them. 657 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,440 Big, blue concertina gates. 658 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,680 They claimed the fans kicked them in, 659 00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:54,600 but someone tell me how you break down a metal gate like that? 660 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:03,240 And is this... eventually where you went in, onto the terrace? 661 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:04,360 Yeah. 662 00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:08,040 That's the tunnel. 663 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:10,880 That's it. 664 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:15,520 Look at it. 665 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,840 Look how wide it is - it's nothing. 666 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,440 You know, what's it going to take - six, eight stewards to close it off? 667 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,200 That's all that needed to happen. 668 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,720 If you're opening the gate, you block off the tunnel first. 669 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,120 20 years, and still no-one's holding their hand up to that blunder. 670 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:48,520 I'm sorry, I can't. 671 00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,440 Steve... 672 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,560 Kevin was pulled from Pen 3... 673 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,880 at 28 minutes past three. 674 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,880 Can I just ask, Steve, 675 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,480 where did you first see Kevin? 676 00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,440 He was there. 677 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,000 He was just there. 678 00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,760 That's... That's where everyone was getting pulled up. 679 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,840 All our fans were on the upper tier, and they were just leaning down 680 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,880 and they were just grabbing anyone that they could. 681 00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,720 Why Kevin? 682 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,480 Why was he one of the first people that you helped? 683 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:44,640 Well... 684 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:45,960 It wasn't just me, 685 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,360 there were a few of us... 686 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,160 We seen him, we went straight to him. 687 00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:54,560 Cos, well... 688 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,440 he was alive. 689 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,360 He was on the hoarding. 690 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,640 So me, Tony O'Keefe and the others 691 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,640 picked him up and we ran him to the far corner - 692 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,240 that's where all the people were getting seen to. 693 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,120 I thought... We all thought... 694 00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,440 "He's in good hands now. 695 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,160 "He'll get looked after." 696 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,280 Thank you. 697 00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,040 You know, looking here now, there's, what... 698 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:39,920 400 seats? 699 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,640 And over 2,000 were led in here like cattle. 700 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,600 And then we're left to live with the lies. 701 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,680 You know who's standing here now? 702 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,240 I can feel Kev's spirit! 703 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:04,320 And it has brought the fight back in me. 704 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,280 'So just a couple of last links, if that's OK?' 705 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,320 Anne Williams has recently set up a new group - Hope For Hillsborough. 706 00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:19,880 Can you tell us a bit about that, Anne? 707 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,160 I just felt there was a need for something more... 708 00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,760 intimate, if you like. 709 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,240 You know, with the 20th anniversary coming up, 710 00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,440 what's great is there's this new, younger element, 711 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,920 who are as determined to fight for truth and justice as I am. 712 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,280 And we just heard that Andy Burnham MP 713 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,160 is going to be addressing the 20th anniversary 714 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,680 on behalf of the Government. 715 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:43,000 Do you think this Labour administration 716 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,400 is going to give you and the other families 717 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,360 the justice that you've been fighting for, for all these years? 718 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,160 Andy Burnham's a politician! 719 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,400 He'll come up to Anfield, deliver his soundbite, 720 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,160 and then he'll piss off back to London! 721 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,240 You're not going away, are you? 722 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,360 Only in a box. 723 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,560 'On this, the 20th anniversary 724 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,680 'of the tragedy at Hillsborough, 725 00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:24,360 'which broke the heart, but not the spirit of our community... 726 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,840 '..never walking alone without a memory of those we miss, 727 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,400 'without a prayer that God would bless those 728 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,760 'whom we love, but no longer touch...' 729 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,320 We've got to get our skates on, here. 730 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,920 The stewards are saying they're going to be closing the Kop soon. 731 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:42,960 Closing it, why? 732 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,520 It's completely chocker, girl - there's thousands here. 733 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,600 They're opening up the whole ground. 734 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,600 'Abide With Me' 735 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,600 # ..And comforts flee 736 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:57,360 # Help of the helpless 737 00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:04,000 # Oh, abide with me 738 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,360 Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. 739 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,360 And I'd like to now just introduce you 740 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,640 to the Right Honourable Andy Burnham, 741 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,880 Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. 742 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,160 Remembering any loss of life in this scale is painful. 743 00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,560 It is harder when a tragedy was no natural disaster, 744 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,760 but entirely man-made, 745 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,160 when it involved so many young people... 746 00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:54,040 ..and when those who have lost most 747 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,520 have suffered so many more dark days ever since. 748 00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:02,680 Hillsborough left deep wounds that will never heal - 749 00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:06,800 its horror not diminished by the passage of time... 750 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,400 the TV images still harrowing to watch. 751 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,480 Well, today, as the Prime Minister has asked me to convey, 752 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:15,680 we can at least pledge 753 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:18,360 that 96 fellow football supporters who died... 754 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,200 ..will never be forgotten. 755 00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:22,600 What about justice? 756 00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,760 What about justice? What about justice? 757 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,320 And he asked us to think at this time... 758 00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,120 - Justice! - Justice! 759 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:29,360 What about justice? 760 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:30,960 Justice! Justice! 761 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,960 Justice! Justice! 762 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,200 Justice... for the 96... 763 00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:40,520 Justice... 764 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,520 for the 96! 765 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,960 # Justice for the 96! 766 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,440 # Justice 767 00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,600 # For the 96! 768 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,320 # Justice for the 96! 769 00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,760 # Justice for the 96! 770 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,040 # Justice for the 96! 771 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,280 # Justice for the 96! 772 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,320 # Justice for the 96! 773 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,280 # Justice for the 96! 774 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,240 # Justice for the 96! 775 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:11,560 # Justice! # 55365

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