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'Right, Des, it's John Motson here.'
'Yes, John.'
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00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,480
'We have a lot of people hurt
here today.
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00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,120
'I have to say,
from my position up here,
4
00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,720
'it would appear serious injuries.'
5
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,120
'In my view, the culprits
of Hillsborough
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'were those yobs who turned up
just before the match
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'and tried to force their way in
and did force their way in.
8
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'They are responsible for the deaths
of innocent people.'
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'The charge has been made
10
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'that there has been a cover-up -
11
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'an attempt to pervert
the course of justice.'
12
00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,360
# Things
13
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,200
# Can only get better
14
00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:54,560
# Can only get better... #
15
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,360
Hey, there's a few going in.
16
00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:57,600
I know, it looks quite busy.
17
00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,800
Up the Labour!
18
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,800
'We have been elected
19
00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,240
'as New Labour
and we will govern as New Labour.'
20
00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:15,760
There you go.
21
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,040
New Labour, new inquests.
22
00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,800
Hey-hey! New Labour!
23
00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,840
'Because, as a party today,
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00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,080
'we represent the whole
of this nation.'
25
00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,720
So the first thing to say is
26
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this is a judicial scrutiny.
27
00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,560
The New Labour government has
appointed a senior judge
28
00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:42,600
to look over all the evidence again
29
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,000
and assess whether there are grounds
for new inquests.
30
00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,600
Well, we know there's grounds
for new inquests. Hang on, hang on!
31
00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,480
This is Labour we're talking about.
32
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,520
Different mindset, don't you think?
33
00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:53,840
But we'll take nothing for granted,
OK?
34
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,600
So, he's allocated three days
for the families.
35
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:01,840
What? Three days?
36
00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,200
Doesn't sound like much.
37
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:07,000
Each one, each family
gets an individual slot
38
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:08,720
to make their presentation.
39
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,000
What about this judge -
do we know any more?
40
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,280
The Home Secretary has appointed
Sir Murray Stuart-Smith
41
00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,880
to review all evidence
that has not yet been presented
42
00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:20,000
at any of the previous inquests
or inquiries, so there's the rub.
43
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,040
It has to be new evidence.
44
00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,120
Labour wants this looked at again.
45
00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:26,200
We just need to provide them
with the ammo.
46
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,480
So let's get to it.
47
00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,760
We don't give Stuart-Smith any
choice but to order new inquests.
48
00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,720
You're right.
Yeah.
49
00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:34,480
Come on.
OK. Good.
50
00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,760
Dad?
51
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,200
What's it like?
52
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:41,560
Living on your own?
53
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,000
It's...
54
00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:44,160
It's different.
55
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:45,960
Don't you ever get lonely?
56
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,080
At first, I did, yes.
57
00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,080
But I didn't think
it was going to last forever.
58
00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:54,760
I missed my little mophead,
didn't I, eh?
59
00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:57,720
And I still do.
60
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,080
Why do you ask?
61
00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,760
Ever since high school,
62
00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:06,000
I've been Kevin's sister.
63
00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:11,160
I dunno, I...
64
00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,760
I just want to do something
for myself, you know? Just be me.
65
00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:19,760
Is that awful?
No, love. No.
66
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,280
It's normal.
67
00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:26,560
Have you told your mother?
68
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,280
No! It's like...
69
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,640
she senses what's coming
every time I pluck up the courage.
70
00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,360
You're 18, love.
Nearly 18.
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00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,680
So you can make your own decisions,
then, can't you?
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00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:37,840
Hm?
73
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,760
You are entitled to your own life,
darling.
74
00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,160
Sheila?
75
00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,160
Sorry I'm late. I got a bit lost.
76
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:49,280
Are you all right?
77
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:52,320
He's got his offices here?
78
00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,560
I did tell you,
Elkan's a bit different.
79
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,160
Come on!
80
00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:57,960
Time to get you a new solicitor.
81
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,400
Thanks.
82
00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:04,960
There you go.
Thank you.
83
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,920
I've followed your case
since The Cook Report, now.
84
00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,200
And even then, your evidence
stood out as being so strong.
85
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:12,400
I remember saying to my wife,
86
00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,240
"Let's see how they wriggle out
of this one."
87
00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,680
Elkan was the first lawyer to sue
the police after the Toxteth riots.
88
00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:19,200
Well, I don't know
if I was the first,
89
00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:21,440
but thanks, anyway.
There are similarities, though,
90
00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:22,920
aren't there, with our case?
91
00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:24,960
The police seem to think
they're unaccountable.
92
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,320
We have to make them think again.
93
00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:27,720
There, I do agree.
Listen,
94
00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,400
whoever represents you
when you meet Stuart-Smith...
95
00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,080
I really do think the role
of the West Midlands Police
96
00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:34,800
needs to be looked at
much more closely.
97
00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:37,120
And, well, as it turns out,
their investigation
98
00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,560
wasn't quite as thorough
as it should have been.
99
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:40,960
Well, I think...
100
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,760
there's grounds for new inquests.
101
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,120
'Seabird'
by The Alessi Brothers
102
00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:53,200
# You've been away from land
Too long
103
00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,560
# Far too long... #
104
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,280
Whoa, whoa, whoa -
don't stand on those!
105
00:04:58,320 --> 00:04:59,720
That's Kev's body file.
106
00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,280
His body file?
107
00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,480
What's in it?
Everything.
108
00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:05,440
Witness statements, photos,
109
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,840
Kev's continuity chart
from the first inquest.
110
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,520
You know, all his movements
on the day.
111
00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,600
Mum, I... They want everything new,
anything that wasn't seen
112
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:14,200
at any of the previous inquiries.
Mum!
113
00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,640
Can I talk to you about something?
114
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:18,560
Of course.
115
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,120
I found a flat.
116
00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:27,600
Who for?
117
00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:33,760
You're moving out?
118
00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:38,280
Oh.
119
00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,600
Well, our Mike's still here,
you won't be on your own.
120
00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,680
Well, your dad won't be very happy.
121
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:45,960
Oh, right.
122
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,440
Oh, thanks, Steve.
Dad thinks it'll do me good.
123
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:50,800
Yeah, well...
124
00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:52,120
You dad's right.
125
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:53,720
You know, love. You just...
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00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,720
You just do whatever you need to,
eh?
127
00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:57,160
Mum...
128
00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:58,800
Come on.
129
00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:03,880
I'm sorry, love.
130
00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,360
I'm not cross.
131
00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:10,880
I'm just not ready
to let you go yet!
132
00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,160
Come here!
Mum!
133
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:14,680
Ohh...
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00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:18,480
Go on, you.
135
00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,840
Go and find me Dr West's report,
will you?
136
00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:24,440
What?
137
00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:41,240
'Families of those who died
at Hillsborough have campaigned
138
00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:43,520
'for years for a fresh inquiry
into the disaster.
139
00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,760
'Meetings over the next three days
could be their best chance yet.
140
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,040
'16 families will present
what they say is a compelling case
141
00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:52,400
'for a new inquiry
142
00:06:52,440 --> 00:06:55,240
'into the circumstances leading
to the Hillsborough disaster.'
143
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:05,880
God, so many journalists.
144
00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:07,480
Morning.
145
00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:08,800
Pleased to meet you.
146
00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:12,080
Hiya, Sir Murray. Anne Williams.
Oh, dear, your hands are very cold.
147
00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:13,960
Well, I've had a very long wait,
Sir Murray.
148
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,080
Do you have some of your people
here?
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00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,600
Or are they like the Liverpool fans,
150
00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,560
they turn up at the last minute?
151
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,480
Did you hear that?
152
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,200
He serious?
153
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,360
Well, sir, incomplete evidence
154
00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:34,720
would be the first thing
we'd want you to look at.
155
00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,360
Not just from PC Bruder
and WPC Martin,
156
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,600
but from members
of the Ambulance Service,
157
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,080
reputable pathologists...
158
00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,960
all of whom had their evidence
ignored,
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00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,680
or misunderstood, too.
160
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,440
Following on from this
is the coroner's decision
161
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,000
to deem evidence after 3:15pm
irrelevant and inadmissible.
162
00:07:55,040 --> 00:08:00,680
We strenuously resist
the 3:15 cut-off, sir.
163
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,280
It means evidence Kevin might
have been alive after that
164
00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:04,920
has not been properly considered.
165
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,560
Dr West says Kevin died
166
00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,200
from damage to the airways
167
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,520
providing oxygen to the lungs -
it's treatable.
168
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:18,400
Treatable if the necessary
medical resources are available.
169
00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,480
We contend that Kevin could have
been saved, summary.
170
00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,560
So what Dr West is saying is
if a tracheotomy had been performed,
171
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,160
it's possible that it might have
saved his life.
172
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,360
Yes, and, sorry,
can I just point out
173
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,840
that Dr Slater,
who did the post-mortem,
174
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,040
he put down Kevin's injuries
as chest injuries?
175
00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,400
That was on the Form 99.
Now, that was wrong.
176
00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,560
We wrote to the coroner
and pointed this out and, well...
177
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,560
then, Dr Slater,
he then rectified his mistake.
178
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,400
But I understand Dr Slater
hasn't changed his opinion
179
00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,400
of Kevin's cause of death?
Yes, sir, that's correct.
180
00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,600
But if he was wrong about that,
181
00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,240
then what else
could he be wrong about?
182
00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,000
If we can just look at
what happened after 3:15,
183
00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,360
then, you see, it throws up
a whole range of questions.
184
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,480
I mean, why wasn't there
somebody there
185
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:09,280
who could perform a tracheotomy?
186
00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,680
I mean, why wasn't there
more ambulances?
187
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,840
And why is PC Bruder's evidence
not being given the credence...
188
00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,000
well, it so clearly deserves?
189
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:20,960
The police heard
over 3,500 statements.
190
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,640
And the coroner had to select
which witness to call,
191
00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:25,080
which witness to summarise...
192
00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,840
So the mere fact that
a witness came to light now
193
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:29,720
whose evidence was not called,
194
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,160
or was not summarised,
195
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,320
does not seem to me to necessarily
give rise to the inference
196
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,920
that it was improper.
It seems to me that...
197
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:39,360
well, there's an argument
198
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,880
that one should at least
follow the paper trail.
199
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,160
All the evidence
should be investigated.
200
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,000
I don't wish to jump to conclusions,
201
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:07,280
Mrs Williams.
202
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,400
It may be at the end of the day
203
00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,080
that I'm not able
to recommend fresh inquests.
204
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:15,560
But,
205
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,920
I might be able to ascertain
with a greater clarity...
206
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:21,720
what happened to Kevin in the last
three quarters of an hour.
207
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,760
Look, I KNOW what happened to Kevin.
208
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,080
I have tracked EVERYBODY down.
209
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:30,160
I have spoken to all those people.
You know, I have spent...
210
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,120
hours and hours
with forensic pathologists...
211
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:34,760
That might well be so.
212
00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,000
Please.
213
00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,120
Sir Murray, you know...
214
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,840
this is all I have left now
of my son, his memories.
215
00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:48,680
Please. Look at him.
216
00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:54,400
Let me put my son to rest.
217
00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,080
Grant us a new inquest.
218
00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:03,000
You did brilliantly there.
219
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,240
Um, you go on,
I'll catch you outside. OK.
220
00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,000
PC Bruder...
221
00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,280
Mrs Williams! Hello!
222
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:18,960
Hiya!
223
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,200
Well, I'm... I'm so glad
they called you in.
224
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:24,520
They didn't.
225
00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:26,240
What?
Nobody got in touch.
226
00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,960
I read about it in the Echo
and wrote to the judge myself.
227
00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,840
Well, in that case,
228
00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,480
even more thanks.
229
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:34,080
Here y'are...
230
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:40,560
What's he like?
231
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,640
Well, he's a bit scary at first,
but...
232
00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:45,400
he does listen. Just...
233
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,480
Don't let him talk down to you.
234
00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,000
No, I won't.
235
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:52,040
I'll just tell him the truth.
236
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:55,120
Thank you.
237
00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:56,480
I mean it.
238
00:11:57,960 --> 00:11:59,200
I told you I would.
239
00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:00,800
I know, it's just... Well...
240
00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:04,960
It's not very often people do
what they say they're gonna do.
241
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:07,480
PC Bruder?
242
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:08,640
Yep.
243
00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:10,640
This way, please.
244
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,440
Good luck.
Thanks.
245
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:16,720
See ya.
See ya.
246
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:27,720
I suppose I'd...
247
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,320
..better...
248
00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,440
..or I'll never leave!
249
00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,080
I'm always here for you.
250
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:41,440
Don't.
251
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:44,440
Sara, are you ready?
252
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:45,480
Yeah, one sec.
253
00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:48,920
Come on.
254
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:52,560
You know, and...
255
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,880
Well, your room's always there.
256
00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:58,880
I love you.
257
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,040
I love you.
258
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:04,600
Right.
Go on.
259
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:07,720
Good afternoon.
260
00:14:10,680 --> 00:14:14,080
And may I simply start
by thanking you all
261
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,720
for making the journey down
once more?
262
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:23,400
Our objective in ordering
this extensive scrutiny
263
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,360
was to assess the quality
264
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,480
of any new evidence
265
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:30,920
and whether that evidence
266
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,880
is significant enough
to order new inquiries
267
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,320
into the deaths of your loved ones.
268
00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,400
Lord Stuart-Smith
has presided over a prolonged
269
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,120
and very diligent process.
270
00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,480
So I am genuinely sorry...
271
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,720
..not to be able to give you
the outcome I know
272
00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,920
you all so dearly hoped for.
273
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,760
This has been a thorough
and impartial process,
274
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,080
handled with great care.
275
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,000
And as you are all well aware,
276
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,920
the standard of evidence required
277
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,120
is significant.
278
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,000
You have my sympathies.
279
00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:38,920
It's a stitch-up.
280
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:42,280
Lip service from start to finish.
281
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,040
'Angry Hillsborough families
282
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,040
'were told of Mr Straw's decision
in a private meeting
283
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:51,520
'with the Home Secretary,
284
00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,040
'and did not stay in the Commons
for his statement.
285
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,080
'There was to be
no new public inquiry,
286
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,400
'no new inquest, no new action
287
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,080
'by the Director
of Public Prosecutions.'
288
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:02,640
It's a sad day for the families,
289
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,240
and we think it's an exceptionally
sad day for Britain.
290
00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,640
We say, New Labour, new cover-up.
291
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:13,600
We asked for that.
292
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,600
We've been way too passive
since Labour got in.
293
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:21,360
We just sat there...
294
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,120
..and expected justice
to take its course.
295
00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:29,760
Different party, same message.
296
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,200
It's not just today,
it's everywhere.
297
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,920
"Football fans are scum."
John...
298
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,440
No, he's right, Teresa.
299
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:36,920
It's how most people think.
300
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,560
There's a part of them
thinks we deserve this.
301
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,200
Let's take this as our wake-up call.
302
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,480
We need to embrace the survivors
303
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,160
in the fight for justice.
304
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,080
I think we need a brand-new start.
305
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,760
When we get home,
306
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,720
we need to tap into the energy
and the anger
307
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,160
of all those people
who've got in touch over the years
308
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,760
who were desperate to get involved.
309
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,440
I mean it, now's the time.
310
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,320
We need a new group.
311
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,840
'I've never been any good
at telling people what to do.'
312
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,080
'Don't be so wet -
just get on with it!
313
00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,440
'Was that necessary?'
'Well...
314
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,360
'Girl would try the patience
of a saint.'
315
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,160
Oh, good.
316
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,520
Got yourself something to eat.
317
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,360
I've saved you some there.
318
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,800
I'm all right, love.
319
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,160
I had a butty on the train.
320
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,000
I'm sorry, you know.
321
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,200
Honestly, love...
322
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:07,240
..I'm done with it.
323
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:09,920
I think.
324
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:12,800
I don't know.
325
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,680
I am this close
to packing it all in.
326
00:18:25,120 --> 00:18:26,520
Are you OK, love?
327
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:27,800
Yeah.
328
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:28,960
Yeah, I'm sound.
329
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:32,960
Are you sure, love?
330
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,640
I've been so wrapped up
in all this...
331
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,120
Can't have been easy for you.
332
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,560
Oh, don't - pack it in, Mum.
333
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:47,920
I don't need to know
all the details,
334
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:49,640
and I REALLY don't want
to talk about it
335
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,320
day in and day out,
but I'm glad you're doing it.
336
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:53,560
I am.
337
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,480
I'm proud of you.
338
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,080
Mum!
339
00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:17,400
It's all set up.
340
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,760
Right!
341
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,000
Wow!
342
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,920
Go on, have a mess!
343
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:45,760
And now, the good bit.
344
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:56,840
Brilliant!
345
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:58,880
So you can write as many letters
as you want now!
346
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,520
Who says I'm writing letters?
347
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,000
River!
348
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,120
Come on.
349
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,280
I was tired of it all.
350
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,200
I just wanted people to hear it,
you know?
351
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,040
All the evidence we found,
352
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,560
everything we'd been through -
353
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,160
so I put it all down in a book.
354
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,680
I've called it
When You Walk Through The Storm.
355
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,280
That's nice.
356
00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,480
So, are you going to grace the new
group with your presence, madam?
357
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,600
I like the name,
Hillsborough Justice Campaign.
358
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,120
It's good, isn't it?
Yeah.
359
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,240
Gets right to the heart
of what we're about.
360
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,760
Like John said,
we needed a complete new start,
361
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,480
so that's what we've done.
362
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,000
It was always you who said get the
fans and survivors on board, Anne.
363
00:20:58,360 --> 00:20:59,360
I know.
364
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:00,640
Come on!
365
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:02,880
Get involved again.
366
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:10,720
I'll think about it.
367
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,560
OK. I'll take that.
368
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,040
Can you sign here, please?
Yeah.
369
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:26,720
Thank you.
Ta.
370
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,840
Um, Sheila Coleman said
you might stock my book for me.
371
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,200
Right. Well, hello.
372
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,680
I'm Peter. Lovely day we're having,
pleased to meet you.
373
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,000
Sorry!
374
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,480
I'm Anne, Anne Williams.
375
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,040
And I lost my boy at Hillsborough,
Kevin - our Kev.
376
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,400
I know.
377
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:53,200
Well, I've written a book about him.
378
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,200
Well, it's about everything
that happened.
379
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,840
Of course we'll stock it for you,
it kind of goes without saying.
380
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,320
Where else are you selling it?
381
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:01,960
Er... I don't know.
382
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,400
See, I've never done anything
like this before.
383
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:05,960
Well...
384
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:07,440
Come on.
385
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:08,880
Wha'?
386
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,120
I've got me van outside,
we'll go round all the bookshops.
387
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,320
Have they had you
on Radio Merseyside yet?
388
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:16,040
No, no...
389
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:17,760
Oh, Jesus!
390
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,640
Well, I know a guy
that knows a guy...
391
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,840
that knows a guy
that knows some fella...
392
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,680
I bet you do!
I do!
393
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,120
Anyway, I hope you enjoy.
Thank you.
394
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,840
Nice to speak to you.
You too, bye.
395
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:38,920
And thanks!
396
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,880
They were very nice in there.
397
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,920
They said they'd give me a call
398
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,840
if they need any more books.
399
00:23:58,480 --> 00:23:59,640
Are you OK?
400
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,760
You were there, weren't you?
401
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,160
Yeah.
402
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,880
Me and my mate,
we went into Leppings Lane.
403
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,240
And as soon as I went into
that tunnel, I wished I hadn't.
404
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,200
The weight of that crowd...
405
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:37,440
It turned me around.
406
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,360
I went in with my back to the pitch.
407
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,120
And it just got tighter...
408
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,280
..and tighter and tighter.
409
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,320
Do you know the thing
that gets me most,
410
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:54,120
even now, over and over?
411
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,680
Those coppers,
they were right there.
412
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:02,840
They were right there and they
could see what was happening.
413
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:04,920
And they just...
414
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,200
..stood there...
415
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:09,280
..and watched.
416
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,720
There was people at the front,
417
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,240
just-just in front of me,
418
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:19,800
and they were pressed
419
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,080
right up against the railings -
I mean right up.
420
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:25,480
They were going purple.
421
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,240
So many of them were kids.
422
00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,280
Did we mean so little to them?
423
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,480
Everyone thought that because
we got out, we were the lucky ones.
424
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,880
We got out, but we've got no voice.
425
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,080
But you do have a voice, Peter.
426
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,280
You know, my Kev...
427
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,720
he can't tell me what happened
in those last minutes...
428
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,080
..but YOU can.
429
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,240
And you have to.
430
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,840
'David Duckenfield was the man
in command of policing Hillsborough.
431
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,240
'He was the man accused
by the victims' families
432
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,960
'of being responsible
for their deaths.
433
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,560
'Today, Duckenfield walked away
434
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,000
'from court - the jury
couldn't reach a verdict.
435
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,280
'The memories remain, too,
436
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,400
'for the families
of the Hillsborough victims.
437
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,680
'They travelled across to Leeds
from Liverpool every day
438
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,320
'to watch every minute
of the six-week trial.'
439
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,080
Thank you.
440
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:09,400
See ya later.
441
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,120
I do miss Steve, Teresa.
442
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:19,560
Course I do,
443
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:20,920
but, you know,
444
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,520
after a time, you do get used
to being on your own.
445
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,240
I actually quite like it.
446
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,360
I don't know what I'd do
with myself.
447
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,160
And I certainly don't know
what he'd do.
448
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:32,640
All right, mate?
All right, mate.
449
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,400
Can I help you, love?
450
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,520
Do you...?
451
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,840
Do you want to talk to somebody?
452
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,400
Come and sit down.
453
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:11,880
What's your name?
454
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,360
Colin.
Hiya, Colin.
455
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:15,640
I'm Anne.
456
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:16,920
You all right?
457
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,120
Yeah.
458
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:20,360
There you go, love.
459
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:21,560
Ta.
460
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:26,440
So, are you going to the match?
461
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:27,760
Er, yeah.
462
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,320
Did you lose someone, Colin?
463
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:36,560
At Hillsborough?
464
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,240
Well, not on the day, you know.
465
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,080
Not in the ground.
466
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,200
He was me best mate.
467
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,800
He, um...
468
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,960
He never really got over it,
you know?
469
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,240
Some of the things he'd seen...
470
00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,640
that day.
471
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,400
He could...
He couldn't live with it, you know?
472
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,200
Hey.
473
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,960
I'm sorry, I just miss him so much.
474
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,840
Hey, it's all right.
475
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,920
Come and sit down, will you?
476
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,720
Have you got any Cornettos?
477
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,560
Cornettos? You're just about
to have your tea!
478
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,480
Just fancy a nice mint Cornetto.
479
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,320
You're not pregnant, are you?
480
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,560
Oh, my God.
481
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,000
You are, aren't you?
482
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,720
Sara, you've just turned 20!
483
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,640
Same age as you were
when you had our Mike.
484
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,120
Well, that was then!
485
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,320
How do you feel about it?
486
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,000
A bit scared, like,
487
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,880
but it's brilliant, I'm made up!
488
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:01,240
Come here!
489
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,840
So am I!
490
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,360
Right.
491
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,160
Well, that's made my mind up, then.
492
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,760
What has? About what?
493
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,840
You can't stay in that little flat,
can you?
494
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,560
You're going to have to
move in here.
495
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,120
Well, there's no room in here.
496
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,960
Well, there will be when I move out.
497
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,000
Look, I have been thinking about it
for a while.
498
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,280
No, Mum. No.
499
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:26,520
Yes, Mum.
500
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:27,720
Yes.
501
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:30,720
I want you to.
502
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:57,760
'Are you sure you're gonna be OK?'
503
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,360
Will you behave?
504
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,200
Well, erm...
505
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,440
See you later, then, yeah?
Yeah.
506
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,640
See you, love.
507
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:19,800
Mum!
508
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,040
'It's all down to this...'
509
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,400
'Shevchenko...
510
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,360
'Ohhhhh!
511
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,480
'Liverpool! They've done it!
512
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,240
'In the most dramatic fashion
ever seen!
513
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,720
'And the European Cup
is coming back to Anfield!'
514
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,040
Hiya! You all right?
515
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,720
Ooh! Thank you.
516
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,600
Cheers, thanks.
517
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:06,760
'So, look,'
518
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,320
the last thing any of us wants
519
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,880
is to unfairly raise
your expectations,
520
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,360
but we're quite excited by this case
521
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,200
that's just come through
the European Court of Human Rights.
522
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,520
With respect, Elkan,
the court rejected
523
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,480
the Family Support Group's
private prosecutions.
524
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,240
So why is Europe gonna care?
525
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,960
Hear him out, Anne,
he's on our side.
526
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,600
It's fine, she's right.
527
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,000
Who knows if it will, but it could
be worth us looking very closely
528
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,840
at this updated Article 2 -
the right to life.
529
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,320
Now, look,
530
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,320
our argument would be that Kevin
531
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,680
was essentially in the hands
of the state when he died,
532
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,720
so the state has a duty of care
to properly investigate his death.
533
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,880
And if we can show that
that has not, so far,
534
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:46,400
been the case, then...
535
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,440
there's a possible route
to a new inquest.
536
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,880
You think?
Look, it's gonna take time.
537
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,200
Let's be in no doubt about that.
538
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:54,920
I mean,
before we even get to Europe,
539
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,400
we've got to resubmit
with the UK Attorney General.
540
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,360
What about the other families?
I mean...
541
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,120
Well, they want justice, too.
542
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,520
I know what you're saying,
but, look...
543
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,440
there hasn't been
a significant breakthrough
544
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:06,840
for quite some time now,
545
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,320
and a successful new submission
will, of course, benefit everyone.
546
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,400
If we can get Kevin through Europe,
547
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,040
it'll...
548
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,480
It'll open things up for everyone.
549
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,640
Let me think about it.
550
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,600
So, that's where I stand.
551
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,760
The legal team have
made it crystal clear
552
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,280
that this is basically a test case,
553
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,520
and it is just Kev at this point.
554
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:37,760
Tell us something new.
555
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,600
It's always just Kev with you,
isn't it?
556
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,080
You do know that "all for one"
doesn't necessarily mean
557
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,840
all for "one", don't you?
558
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,000
That's not fair. Come on,
let's keep this decent.
559
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,800
No, no, look, he's got a point.
560
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,360
Maybe it is about Kev for me.
561
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,040
But then I am Kev's mum.
562
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,440
If I can get Kevin through,
563
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,520
then everyone else
gets through, too.
564
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,640
"Our Kev" first, though, eh?
565
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,000
There's no need for that.
566
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,720
We should just support Anne
come what may.
567
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,560
Surely, anything that keeps people
talking about Hillsborough
568
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,280
and keeps us in the spotlight
can only be a good thing?
569
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,480
No.
It's a basic matter of principle.
570
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,240
Come on. This is who we are.
571
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,680
The collective, not the individual.
572
00:34:19,720 --> 00:34:23,280
You know what?
I didn't expect a round of applause.
573
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,480
But I did hope most of you
would understand.
574
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,160
Comments like that don't help,
do they?
575
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,600
I'm trying to keep it in the group.
576
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,520
Listen, let's have a little
five-minute break. Cool it down.
577
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,320
Come back in five minutes, have a
cup of tea and talk about it, yeah?
578
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:38,680
Anne!
579
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,000
They will support you, you know.
580
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,200
There's always one or two
needs to let off steam,
581
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:46,280
but we will always support you,
you know that.
582
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,720
Look, I feel like
I'm always battling.
583
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,480
I do not want to be
put in a position
584
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,920
where I have to justify
how I feel about my boy.
585
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,320
I'm going it alone.
586
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,120
Me and Kev - I'm done with it.
587
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:15,760
Hiya, love.
588
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:26,920
There we go.
589
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:29,680
I brought you a hardy perennial.
590
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:31,080
Just like your mum!
591
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,640
You know, Kev...
592
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,840
..it's been 20 years.
593
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,200
I can't believe it.
594
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,200
I miss you so much.
595
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,360
There's not a day goes by
that I don't think of you.
596
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:57,800
I love you.
597
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,960
Right - let's get this planted,
shall we?
598
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,640
Cos it's freezin'!
599
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:21,640
Come on, then.
600
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,120
Give it to me straight.
601
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,280
It's a no from Europe.
602
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:31,440
Why?
603
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,240
Out of time.
604
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:36,160
Out of time?!
605
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,400
I'm so sorry.
606
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,160
Ha!
607
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,200
They've said we should've
put our application in
608
00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:43,600
within six months
of the Stuart-Smith verdict.
609
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,200
Four years, for this?
610
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,280
I'm sorry, Anne.
611
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,560
God knows how you must feel.
612
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:54,800
Hm.
613
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,320
You know,
614
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,120
I'm waiting for you to go,
"April Fool!"
615
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,320
Wow.
616
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:13,960
20 years.
617
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:19,920
Yeah, well, you know what?
618
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,560
Maybe I am the fool for keeping on.
619
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:26,880
Hm.
620
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,800
'There's gonna be a documentary
to mark the 20th anniversary, Anne.
621
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,160
'We've got an incredibly moving
interview with Jenni Hicks,'
622
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,200
talking about the ride back
from Hillsborough on the day,
623
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:43,800
and that's the theme
I want to expand on.
624
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,800
The mother's journey.
625
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,360
And I just wondered...
626
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,840
..whether you might go back with me?
627
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,120
To Hillsborough?
628
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:53,800
Oh, Christian, that's a no.
629
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,560
You do know I've never actually
been inside the ground?
630
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,800
I realise it's gonna be hard,
Anne, but it has to be -
631
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,440
for the full impact
to land with our listeners.
632
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,120
It's the 20th anniversary.
633
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,280
20 years, still no justice.
634
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,280
We have to make our listeners
understand that.
635
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,280
We have to make 'em feel
what you feel.
636
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:17,840
Well, then...
637
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,960
..I think I need
to take someone with me.
638
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,400
You know, someone who was
actually there in the pens.
639
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,520
Someone who can tell your listeners
what it was really like.
640
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,280
One-two, one-two-three, one-two.
641
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,080
Anne, you never actually wanted
to set foot
642
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,640
inside this football stadium,
did you?
643
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:58,040
No...
644
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:02,280
Well, a lot of the families did
come back in the beginning, and...
645
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,600
well, I did want to go
inside the ground, but...
646
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,360
I suppose at the time, I was...
Well, I was just too ill, you know?
647
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,800
Steve, what's going through
your head, as you stand here now?
648
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,240
20 years on, what do you remember?
649
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:17,840
I dunno.
650
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,120
It's scary.
651
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,920
I remember, erm...
652
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:25,920
coming through the turnstiles...
653
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:29,560
I was waiting for me mate.
654
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,400
And that's... That's where they
opened the gates, the exit gates.
655
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,320
I saw two policemen walk over
656
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,280
and order the steward to open them.
657
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,440
Big, blue concertina gates.
658
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:50,680
They claimed the fans
kicked them in,
659
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:54,600
but someone tell me how you break
down a metal gate like that?
660
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:03,240
And is this... eventually where
you went in, onto the terrace?
661
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:04,360
Yeah.
662
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:08,040
That's the tunnel.
663
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:10,880
That's it.
664
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:15,520
Look at it.
665
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,840
Look how wide it is - it's nothing.
666
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,440
You know, what's it going to take -
six, eight stewards to close it off?
667
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,200
That's all that needed to happen.
668
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,720
If you're opening the gate,
you block off the tunnel first.
669
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,120
20 years, and still no-one's holding
their hand up to that blunder.
670
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:48,520
I'm sorry, I can't.
671
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:51,440
Steve...
672
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,560
Kevin was pulled from Pen 3...
673
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:07,880
at 28 minutes past three.
674
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,880
Can I just ask, Steve,
675
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,480
where did you first see Kevin?
676
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:17,440
He was there.
677
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,000
He was just there.
678
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,760
That's... That's where everyone
was getting pulled up.
679
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,840
All our fans were on the upper tier,
and they were just leaning down
680
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,880
and they were just grabbing anyone
that they could.
681
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,720
Why Kevin?
682
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:41,480
Why was he one of the first people
that you helped?
683
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:44,640
Well...
684
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:45,960
It wasn't just me,
685
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,360
there were a few of us...
686
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,160
We seen him,
we went straight to him.
687
00:42:53,240 --> 00:42:54,560
Cos, well...
688
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,440
he was alive.
689
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,360
He was on the hoarding.
690
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,640
So me, Tony O'Keefe and the others
691
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,640
picked him up and we ran him
to the far corner -
692
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,240
that's where all the people were
getting seen to.
693
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,120
I thought... We all thought...
694
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,440
"He's in good hands now.
695
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,160
"He'll get looked after."
696
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,280
Thank you.
697
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,040
You know, looking here now,
there's, what...
698
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:39,920
400 seats?
699
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,640
And over 2,000 were led in here
like cattle.
700
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,600
And then we're left
to live with the lies.
701
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,680
You know who's standing here now?
702
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,240
I can feel Kev's spirit!
703
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:04,320
And it has brought the fight back
in me.
704
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,280
'So just a couple of last links,
if that's OK?'
705
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,320
Anne Williams has recently set up
a new group - Hope For Hillsborough.
706
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:19,880
Can you tell us a bit about that,
Anne?
707
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,160
I just felt there was a need
for something more...
708
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:24,760
intimate, if you like.
709
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,240
You know, with the 20th anniversary
coming up,
710
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,440
what's great is there's this new,
younger element,
711
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,920
who are as determined to fight
for truth and justice as I am.
712
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,280
And we just heard
that Andy Burnham MP
713
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,160
is going to be addressing
the 20th anniversary
714
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,680
on behalf of the Government.
715
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:43,000
Do you think
this Labour administration
716
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,400
is going to give you
and the other families
717
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,360
the justice that you've been
fighting for, for all these years?
718
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,160
Andy Burnham's a politician!
719
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,400
He'll come up to Anfield,
deliver his soundbite,
720
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,160
and then he'll piss off
back to London!
721
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,240
You're not going away, are you?
722
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,360
Only in a box.
723
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,560
'On this, the 20th anniversary
724
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,680
'of the tragedy at Hillsborough,
725
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:24,360
'which broke the heart, but not
the spirit of our community...
726
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,840
'..never walking alone
without a memory of those we miss,
727
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,400
'without a prayer
that God would bless those
728
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,760
'whom we love,
but no longer touch...'
729
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,320
We've got to get our skates on,
here.
730
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,920
The stewards are saying they're
going to be closing the Kop soon.
731
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:42,960
Closing it, why?
732
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,520
It's completely chocker, girl -
there's thousands here.
733
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,600
They're opening up the whole ground.
734
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,600
'Abide With Me'
735
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,600
# ..And comforts flee
736
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:57,360
# Help of the helpless
737
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:04,000
# Oh, abide with me
738
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,360
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
739
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,360
And I'd like to now
just introduce you
740
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,640
to the Right Honourable
Andy Burnham,
741
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:24,880
Secretary of State for Culture,
Media and Sport.
742
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:42,160
Remembering any loss of life
in this scale is painful.
743
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,560
It is harder when a tragedy
was no natural disaster,
744
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,760
but entirely man-made,
745
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,160
when it involved
so many young people...
746
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:54,040
..and when those who have lost most
747
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,520
have suffered
so many more dark days ever since.
748
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:02,680
Hillsborough left deep wounds
that will never heal -
749
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:06,800
its horror not diminished
by the passage of time...
750
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,400
the TV images
still harrowing to watch.
751
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:14,480
Well, today, as the Prime Minister
has asked me to convey,
752
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:15,680
we can at least pledge
753
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:18,360
that 96 fellow football supporters
who died...
754
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,200
..will never be forgotten.
755
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:22,600
What about justice?
756
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,760
What about justice?
What about justice?
757
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,320
And he asked us to think
at this time...
758
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,120
- Justice!
- Justice!
759
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:29,360
What about justice?
760
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:30,960
Justice!
Justice!
761
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,960
Justice! Justice!
762
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,200
Justice... for the 96...
763
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:40,520
Justice...
764
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,520
for the 96!
765
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,960
# Justice for the 96!
766
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,440
# Justice
767
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,600
# For the 96!
768
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,320
# Justice for the 96!
769
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:54,760
# Justice for the 96!
770
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,040
# Justice for the 96!
771
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,280
# Justice for the 96!
772
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,320
# Justice for the 96!
773
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,280
# Justice for the 96!
774
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,240
# Justice for the 96!
775
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:11,560
# Justice! #
55365
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