All language subtitles for Wojnarowicz.2020.1080p.WEBRip.x264-RARBG
Afrikaans
Albanian
Amharic
Arabic
Armenian
Azerbaijani
Basque
Belarusian
Bengali
Bosnian
Bulgarian
Catalan
Cebuano
Chichewa
Chinese (Simplified)
Chinese (Traditional)
Corsican
Croatian
Czech
Danish
Dutch
English
Esperanto
Estonian
Filipino
Finnish
French
Frisian
Galician
Georgian
German
Greek
Gujarati
Haitian Creole
Hausa
Hawaiian
Hebrew
Hindi
Hmong
Hungarian
Icelandic
Igbo
Indonesian
Irish
Italian
Japanese
Javanese
Kannada
Kazakh
Khmer
Korean
Kurdish (Kurmanji)
Kyrgyz
Lao
Latin
Latvian
Lithuanian
Luxembourgish
Macedonian
Malagasy
Malay
Malayalam
Maltese
Maori
Marathi
Mongolian
Myanmar (Burmese)
Nepali
Norwegian
Pashto
Persian
Polish
Portuguese
Punjabi
Romanian
Russian
Samoan
Scots Gaelic
Serbian
Sesotho
Shona
Sindhi
Sinhala
Slovak
Slovenian
Somali
Spanish
Sundanese
Swahili
Swedish
Tajik
Tamil
Telugu
Thai
Turkish
Ukrainian
Urdu
Uzbek
Vietnamese
Welsh
Xhosa
Yiddish
Yoruba
Zulu
Odia (Oriya)
Kinyarwanda
Turkmen
Tatar
Uyghur
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:12,074
Support us and become VIP member
to remove all ads from www.OpenSubtitles.org
2
00:00:12,853 --> 00:00:17,853
Provided by explosiveskull
https://twitter.com/kaboomskull
3
00:00:22,321 --> 00:00:24,123
Testing one, two, three.
4
00:00:24,155 --> 00:00:26,091
Testing one, two.
5
00:00:26,125 --> 00:00:28,227
Testing, testing,
testing,
6
00:00:28,260 --> 00:00:31,798
testing, testing,
test, test, test.
7
00:00:44,844 --> 00:00:47,814
We rise
to greet the State,
8
00:00:47,847 --> 00:00:50,450
to confront the State.
9
00:00:54,686 --> 00:00:59,125
When I was diagnosed
with this virus,
10
00:00:59,158 --> 00:01:00,759
it didn't take me long
to realize
11
00:01:00,792 --> 00:01:03,295
I'd contracted
a diseased society as well.
12
00:01:19,378 --> 00:01:21,114
It could be construed
as critical,
13
00:01:21,147 --> 00:01:22,849
but if you're doing
a show of AIDS,
14
00:01:22,882 --> 00:01:24,784
there's absolutely no way
that you can separate
15
00:01:24,816 --> 00:01:26,551
politics from AIDS.
16
00:01:26,584 --> 00:01:27,719
For six years,
what's happening
17
00:01:27,753 --> 00:01:29,522
as we update our top stories.
18
00:01:29,555 --> 00:01:31,691
East Germany today
took down the Berlin Wall.
19
00:01:31,724 --> 00:01:33,593
Bottom line
is I may be dying of AIDS
20
00:01:33,626 --> 00:01:35,228
in America in 1989.
21
00:01:35,260 --> 00:01:37,229
Isn't that political?
22
00:01:37,263 --> 00:01:39,132
I don't have health insurance
and that I don't have
23
00:01:39,165 --> 00:01:40,800
economic access
to adequate healthcare.
24
00:01:40,832 --> 00:01:42,868
Isn't that political?
25
00:01:42,902 --> 00:01:45,638
And to try to pretend
that the subject of AIDS
26
00:01:45,671 --> 00:01:50,343
cannot have a political tinge
to it is ridiculous.
27
00:01:50,376 --> 00:01:52,210
Who was that?
28
00:01:52,243 --> 00:01:54,180
John McKenzie
is putting this up together
29
00:01:54,212 --> 00:01:56,681
for Peter something
of World News tonight.
30
00:01:56,715 --> 00:01:58,384
- Peter Jennings?
- Yeah.
31
00:01:58,417 --> 00:02:01,721
- You mean like national news?
- Yeah.
32
00:02:01,754 --> 00:02:04,823
Oh, shit. I didn't...
I should've had that recorded.
33
00:02:04,856 --> 00:02:06,391
Are you recording
all of this today?
34
00:02:06,424 --> 00:02:07,593
- Yeah.
- You're gonna make art
35
00:02:07,626 --> 00:02:09,328
- out of it, huh?
- Yup.
36
00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:10,829
Tonight,
a Manhattan art exhibit
37
00:02:10,862 --> 00:02:12,798
about AIDS is losing
a lot of federal money
38
00:02:12,830 --> 00:02:15,167
because of what will be shown
in the exhibit.
39
00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:16,902
The chairman
of the NEA states,
40
00:02:16,936 --> 00:02:18,938
"We find that a large portion
of the content
41
00:02:18,971 --> 00:02:21,807
is political rather than
artistic in nature."
42
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:23,776
Some of the content
includes criticism
43
00:02:23,808 --> 00:02:26,444
of Cardinal O'Connor,
Senator William Dannemeyer
44
00:02:26,478 --> 00:02:28,614
of California,
and Senator Jesse Helms
45
00:02:28,646 --> 00:02:31,483
for their support
of the new restrictive law.
46
00:02:31,516 --> 00:02:34,686
Thank you. This weather
is certainly no work of art.
47
00:02:34,719 --> 00:02:36,489
So are you gonna do
Nightline tonight?
48
00:02:36,521 --> 00:02:39,724
Uh, I somehow just can't
see it. I mean, I...
49
00:02:39,758 --> 00:02:41,661
Do you think you'd put on
a shirt if you did?
50
00:02:41,693 --> 00:02:42,894
Well, that's what
I was thinking of already,
51
00:02:42,927 --> 00:02:44,697
my wardrobe.
52
00:02:44,729 --> 00:02:48,600
I mean, I... if I did,
I might wear a ski mask
53
00:02:48,633 --> 00:02:50,835
and I'll, you know,
54
00:02:50,868 --> 00:02:53,639
carry a bucket of gasoline.
55
00:02:53,671 --> 00:02:56,408
From Philadelphia,
I'm Terry Gross with Fresh Air.
56
00:02:58,509 --> 00:03:00,378
The art
of David Wojnarowicz
57
00:03:00,412 --> 00:03:02,682
has recently been
at the center of controversy
58
00:03:02,715 --> 00:03:06,885
because the subject matter
deals with sexuality and AIDS.
59
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,820
Let's talk about
how you started making art.
60
00:03:08,854 --> 00:03:11,257
Now, you came from a really
rough family background.
61
00:03:11,289 --> 00:03:12,959
Your father abused your mother.
62
00:03:12,991 --> 00:03:14,926
You ended up in an orphanage
for a while.
63
00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,629
Then your father kidnapped you
from the orphanage.
64
00:03:17,663 --> 00:03:19,731
And you've written
that you later threw yourself
65
00:03:19,764 --> 00:03:22,334
into sex and you became
a hustler for a while.
66
00:03:22,367 --> 00:03:23,969
How did you start
making art?
67
00:03:29,508 --> 00:03:31,711
Whatever work I've done,
it's always been informed
68
00:03:31,743 --> 00:03:35,281
by what I experienced
as an American in this country,
69
00:03:35,313 --> 00:03:37,483
as a homosexual
in this country,
70
00:03:37,515 --> 00:03:40,652
as a person who's legislated
into silence in this country.
71
00:03:40,686 --> 00:03:43,990
One, two, three, four,
civil rights or civil war?
72
00:03:44,022 --> 00:03:46,324
I'm not gonna be polite,
and fuck these people
73
00:03:46,358 --> 00:03:48,294
that want me
to be courageous.
74
00:03:48,326 --> 00:03:50,862
There's no expression
in that other than silence.
75
00:03:50,895 --> 00:03:53,265
As each T cell
disappears from my body,
76
00:03:53,299 --> 00:03:57,436
it's replaced by 10 pounds
of pressure, 10 pounds of rage.
77
00:03:57,468 --> 00:03:59,337
I tried very hard to be normal
78
00:03:59,371 --> 00:04:01,307
and tried very hard
to be accepted.
79
00:04:01,340 --> 00:04:03,542
On some level,
it's a terrific waste of time.
80
00:04:05,576 --> 00:04:07,280
- Wojnarowicz?
- Wojnarowicz.
81
00:04:07,312 --> 00:04:08,446
- Wojnarowicz.
- Wojnarowicz.
82
00:04:08,479 --> 00:04:10,917
Fuck you faggot fucker.
83
00:04:18,423 --> 00:04:19,959
David was two years younger
84
00:04:19,992 --> 00:04:22,962
than me, and Pat
was sort of the big girl.
85
00:04:22,995 --> 00:04:26,465
I don't remember him
ever aspiring to do art,
86
00:04:26,497 --> 00:04:28,067
or to be a doctor,
or a lawyer,
87
00:04:28,100 --> 00:04:29,769
or anything else.
88
00:04:29,802 --> 00:04:31,470
I think we were probably
too consumed
89
00:04:31,502 --> 00:04:33,538
with trying to survive
in any given moment
90
00:04:33,572 --> 00:04:37,343
than to be worried about
what was going down the road.
91
00:04:37,375 --> 00:04:39,644
Dave and I
used to go out in the woods.
92
00:04:39,677 --> 00:04:41,747
We'd get away from my father.
93
00:04:41,779 --> 00:04:44,716
He was horrific
when he was drunk.
94
00:04:44,750 --> 00:04:46,519
I grew up in a tiny
version of hell
95
00:04:46,552 --> 00:04:48,354
called the suburbs.
96
00:04:48,387 --> 00:04:50,488
I had a father who brutalized
both his first and second wives
97
00:04:50,521 --> 00:04:52,358
with physical violence.
98
00:04:52,391 --> 00:04:54,093
Any signs of life
in the family he supported
99
00:04:54,125 --> 00:04:56,628
with his paycheck
from his job as a sailor
100
00:04:56,661 --> 00:04:58,563
was met with extreme violence.
101
00:04:58,596 --> 00:05:00,699
In the universe of the forest,
102
00:05:00,733 --> 00:05:02,500
I didn't think of what it felt
like as a five or six-year-old
103
00:05:02,533 --> 00:05:04,103
being dragged
down a basement stair,
104
00:05:04,136 --> 00:05:06,739
to have my head and body
hit with a dog chain
105
00:05:06,771 --> 00:05:08,940
or a sawed-off chunk of 2x4.
106
00:05:08,973 --> 00:05:12,944
In my home, one cannot laugh,
one cannot express boredom,
107
00:05:12,978 --> 00:05:16,749
one cannot cry, one cannot
play, one cannot explore,
108
00:05:16,781 --> 00:05:18,616
one cannot engage
in any activity
109
00:05:18,649 --> 00:05:21,586
that showed development
or growth that was independent.
110
00:05:33,165 --> 00:05:35,367
This life on the streets
111
00:05:35,401 --> 00:05:39,504
got really rough and David
ended up in a halfway house.
112
00:05:39,538 --> 00:05:43,042
He had not graduated
from high school at that point.
113
00:05:43,074 --> 00:05:44,843
When he finally went back
to school
114
00:05:44,877 --> 00:05:47,612
was when he discovered
Rimbaud and Genet.
115
00:05:47,646 --> 00:05:50,816
They both
are outlaws and rebels.
116
00:05:50,848 --> 00:05:54,954
and he always identified
with outsiders his whole life
117
00:05:54,987 --> 00:05:59,391
and these
were the outsider writers.
118
00:06:04,730 --> 00:06:07,633
Testing tape journal,
one, two, three.
119
00:06:21,846 --> 00:06:23,415
So, it looks like
we ended up
120
00:06:23,449 --> 00:06:26,419
in Jamestown, North Dakota.
121
00:06:26,451 --> 00:06:29,422
That's the halfway mark
between east and west.
122
00:06:34,759 --> 00:06:37,495
Feels like something
out of an old west picture,
123
00:06:37,528 --> 00:06:40,699
dusty roads
and old board buildings,
124
00:06:40,732 --> 00:06:43,169
little family houses
all around you,
125
00:06:43,201 --> 00:06:48,007
great stretches of sky,
long lines of trains.
126
00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,043
The tracks, when you look
at them, just shimmer.
127
00:06:51,076 --> 00:06:54,447
It looks like thousands of
little animals running across.
128
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,016
Then there's the constant
flapping of bird wings
129
00:06:57,048 --> 00:07:00,786
like.
130
00:07:03,788 --> 00:07:06,591
Occasionally, you hear a train
whistling miles away,
131
00:07:06,625 --> 00:07:10,495
but the trains
never seem to get here.
132
00:07:19,805 --> 00:07:23,042
That was doggie French
for, "Hi, pinheads."
133
00:07:23,074 --> 00:07:25,043
I'm just sitting here
in my sister's apartment
134
00:07:25,076 --> 00:07:27,045
using her tape recorder,
trying to figure out
135
00:07:27,079 --> 00:07:28,980
what the hell to say.
136
00:07:33,685 --> 00:07:35,987
As far as publishing,
forget it.
137
00:07:36,021 --> 00:07:38,157
The last woman
that I sent the manuscript to,
138
00:07:38,189 --> 00:07:40,992
this woman in Black Sun,
Le Soleil Noir,
139
00:07:41,026 --> 00:07:43,062
called me up like after a month
and told me
140
00:07:43,095 --> 00:07:45,564
she wanted to return
my manuscript.
141
00:07:45,596 --> 00:07:47,233
You know, she said that
the people in the monologues
142
00:07:47,266 --> 00:07:49,535
are wasted lives
and it was a waste of time
143
00:07:49,567 --> 00:07:51,036
to write about them.
144
00:07:51,069 --> 00:07:52,905
I mean, everything she said
145
00:07:52,937 --> 00:07:56,241
just reinforced my belief
of its importance.
146
00:07:56,274 --> 00:07:58,911
It's like that. I mean,
it's like the galleries, too.
147
00:07:58,944 --> 00:08:01,180
The stuff that I work on
takes so long to do
148
00:08:01,213 --> 00:08:03,115
that the price
that I'd have to ask
149
00:08:03,148 --> 00:08:05,751
if I was gonna make a living
off is just too much
150
00:08:05,783 --> 00:08:07,552
especially
since her tastes gravitate
151
00:08:07,586 --> 00:08:10,990
towards Woolworthian prints.
152
00:08:11,023 --> 00:08:12,858
I've been having,
like, just tons and tons
153
00:08:12,891 --> 00:08:17,263
of dreams of America
and American road and highways.
154
00:08:17,295 --> 00:08:19,865
I really miss
the energy in New York.
155
00:08:19,898 --> 00:08:22,935
Paris gives you a sense
of strange security,
156
00:08:22,968 --> 00:08:24,870
which does make me happy.
157
00:08:24,903 --> 00:08:26,838
So, I guess
I'll say goodbye here.
158
00:08:32,076 --> 00:08:33,578
Bye-bye.
159
00:08:57,168 --> 00:08:59,904
I was doing a series
of photographs
160
00:08:59,937 --> 00:09:01,973
of Arthur Rimbaud
in New York.
161
00:09:03,908 --> 00:09:05,811
I got a job
in an ad agency
162
00:09:05,844 --> 00:09:07,580
for all of
two and a half weeks,
163
00:09:07,613 --> 00:09:09,081
operating a stat machine.
164
00:09:09,114 --> 00:09:10,883
Then I ended up
doing all my own work.
165
00:09:16,955 --> 00:09:20,359
I statted this face of
Arthur Rimbaud, blew it up,
166
00:09:20,392 --> 00:09:24,830
and made a flat mask,
I'm riding subways
167
00:09:24,863 --> 00:09:26,899
wandering all through
the warehouses,
168
00:09:26,932 --> 00:09:28,967
hustling in Times Square.
169
00:09:31,269 --> 00:09:33,238
David was taking Rimbaud
170
00:09:33,270 --> 00:09:36,274
through what was his world
in New York.
171
00:09:38,243 --> 00:09:40,613
Come on, man. Come on.
172
00:09:40,645 --> 00:09:42,046
I grew up as a hustler.
173
00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,083
I grew up hustling
in Times Square
174
00:09:44,115 --> 00:09:47,251
and all sorts of places
all around New York.
175
00:09:47,284 --> 00:09:49,721
Men of all different
descriptions.
176
00:10:07,905 --> 00:10:09,807
By the time I got
off the streets
177
00:10:09,841 --> 00:10:12,977
when I was about 17 or 18,
I had to turn to making things
178
00:10:13,010 --> 00:10:15,813
because I basically
could never find a place
179
00:10:15,846 --> 00:10:19,150
to ever express
what I had experienced.
180
00:10:19,183 --> 00:10:21,153
I remember one of
the most emotional experiences
181
00:10:21,186 --> 00:10:24,956
was one day being picked up
by this guy who was very creepy
182
00:10:24,990 --> 00:10:27,326
and I remember lying
on this dirty bed.
183
00:10:27,359 --> 00:10:29,061
It was one of these
cheap hotels.
184
00:10:29,094 --> 00:10:31,897
And this guy
was sucking my dick,
185
00:10:31,929 --> 00:10:34,298
his mouth was sticky,
and that he would kiss my leg
186
00:10:34,331 --> 00:10:36,031
and there would be
like this gummy
187
00:10:36,033 --> 00:10:38,003
kind of stuff on my leg.
188
00:10:38,035 --> 00:10:40,338
And it was all this stuff
that I was really repulsed by
189
00:10:40,371 --> 00:10:42,674
and not enough to not have
a hard on.
190
00:10:42,707 --> 00:10:44,142
I remember feeling all this
191
00:10:44,176 --> 00:10:45,277
incredible emotion
for this guy.
192
00:10:45,309 --> 00:10:47,078
I just felt so sad for him.
193
00:10:47,111 --> 00:10:49,014
At some point, I, like,
reached under his arms,
194
00:10:49,047 --> 00:10:51,417
and pulled him up to me,
and kissed him on the mouth,
195
00:10:51,450 --> 00:10:53,919
which is the thing
that I least wanted to do.
196
00:10:53,951 --> 00:10:56,154
He started weeping
and just said,
197
00:10:56,187 --> 00:10:58,756
"Nobody's ever done that."
And ended up giving me
198
00:10:58,789 --> 00:11:01,959
extra money, whatever,
which I was quite happy with.
199
00:11:11,970 --> 00:11:13,038
It's like a whole
experience
200
00:11:13,071 --> 00:11:15,074
living on the streets
201
00:11:15,106 --> 00:11:17,308
when I ran away from home
of feeling the world's setup
202
00:11:17,341 --> 00:11:21,980
in such a way that it seems
that I'm constantly working
203
00:11:22,013 --> 00:11:25,484
against it
rather than alongside.
204
00:11:28,854 --> 00:11:30,422
Most guys that I meet,
205
00:11:30,455 --> 00:11:32,357
their lives are just
so completely different.
206
00:11:32,389 --> 00:11:34,460
You know,
there's no real communication
207
00:11:34,493 --> 00:11:37,329
where I can feel totally free
in expressing my ideas
208
00:11:37,361 --> 00:11:40,498
or my desires
or my experiences.
209
00:11:40,532 --> 00:11:42,868
My experience
as a hustler seems to be
210
00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:45,003
one thing that sits
on the back of my shoulder.
211
00:11:48,974 --> 00:11:50,943
One thing that's
incredibly hard to convey
212
00:11:50,975 --> 00:11:54,312
to people is the level
of promiscuity of that era.
213
00:11:54,346 --> 00:11:56,014
This is something
that's really hard
214
00:11:56,047 --> 00:11:57,349
to describe to people
who are younger.
215
00:11:57,381 --> 00:11:59,417
We thought sex
was good for you.
216
00:11:59,451 --> 00:12:01,920
That what was bad for you
is not having sex.
217
00:12:01,952 --> 00:12:04,155
And then what was bad for you
is repression of sexuality,
218
00:12:04,188 --> 00:12:06,024
that was bad.
219
00:12:06,057 --> 00:12:08,894
This is before AIDS or before
we were aware of AIDS.
220
00:12:16,134 --> 00:12:17,836
I grew up
in North Carolina.
221
00:12:17,869 --> 00:12:20,072
And when I first moved
to the East Village...
222
00:12:20,105 --> 00:12:21,974
Smoke, smoke.
223
00:12:22,006 --> 00:12:23,941
...it was cliche things
you see in the movies
224
00:12:23,975 --> 00:12:28,213
of drug-dealing places,
dealers standing around
225
00:12:28,245 --> 00:12:31,115
selling coke and dope,
coke and dope, C&D, C&D.
226
00:12:34,552 --> 00:12:36,955
- real slow, brother.
I said real slow.
227
00:12:36,988 --> 00:12:38,891
- I'll sell that bullshit.
- That is bullshit.
228
00:12:38,923 --> 00:12:40,358
People forget
how much the rest
229
00:12:40,392 --> 00:12:42,361
of America hated New York.
230
00:12:42,394 --> 00:12:44,797
We were a bunch of junkies
and cocksuckers
231
00:12:44,830 --> 00:12:47,099
as far as America
was concerned, and, you know,
232
00:12:47,131 --> 00:12:48,866
there's a real sense
of culture decline.
233
00:12:51,503 --> 00:12:53,405
There had been
this huge shift
234
00:12:53,437 --> 00:12:56,441
between the kind of idealisms
of the '60s
235
00:12:56,474 --> 00:12:58,310
and the first
Civil Rights Movement,
236
00:12:58,342 --> 00:13:00,111
the anti-war movement.
237
00:13:00,144 --> 00:13:03,215
All these things
had derailed by the mid-70s.
238
00:13:03,248 --> 00:13:06,252
And so we were responding
to that in different ways.
239
00:13:13,524 --> 00:13:15,927
I walked up to the park,
and the streets
240
00:13:15,961 --> 00:13:20,832
were completely empty,
and traffic was nonexistent.
241
00:13:20,865 --> 00:13:24,569
I had opened up my pants
242
00:13:24,602 --> 00:13:26,572
and I walked up
and down the pathways,
243
00:13:26,605 --> 00:13:29,074
and there's just, like,
this really quiet
244
00:13:29,106 --> 00:13:31,876
sort of loneliness there.
245
00:13:31,909 --> 00:13:33,377
I mean, I felt like
I was, like,
246
00:13:33,410 --> 00:13:35,480
you know, back where
I'd started from.
247
00:13:37,615 --> 00:13:39,350
I've been filled
with this sense
248
00:13:39,384 --> 00:13:43,622
of, uh, of anxiousness,
249
00:13:43,654 --> 00:13:47,592
and the fact that I'm 26,
I'm thinking about myself
250
00:13:47,625 --> 00:13:51,096
and my values, my actions,
and thinking about the effect
251
00:13:51,129 --> 00:13:53,498
of people on people,
wondering if any
252
00:13:53,530 --> 00:13:56,968
of it's meaningful,
if it's futile,
253
00:13:57,001 --> 00:13:59,503
trying to figure out what it is
that my life is,
254
00:13:59,537 --> 00:14:01,407
and where I've been going.
255
00:14:05,043 --> 00:14:07,144
This is a man
whose time has come,
256
00:14:07,177 --> 00:14:09,981
a man whose principles
have been familiar to Americans
257
00:14:10,014 --> 00:14:12,516
for 30 years,
a man whose accomplishments
258
00:14:12,549 --> 00:14:14,519
make him the natural choice
259
00:14:14,552 --> 00:14:17,122
for president
of the United States.
260
00:14:17,154 --> 00:14:21,326
We will make
America great again.
261
00:14:21,359 --> 00:14:22,494
Thank you very much.
262
00:14:25,163 --> 00:14:28,634
Reagan, as the president
of this country now,
263
00:14:28,667 --> 00:14:31,570
going through a time in my life
that seems desperate,
264
00:14:31,602 --> 00:14:36,107
surreal, awful, and slightly
wondrous all simultaneously.
265
00:14:38,677 --> 00:14:42,247
Met a fellow a month
or so ago, Peter Hujar,
266
00:14:42,279 --> 00:14:45,384
photographer who,
in some interesting ways,
267
00:14:45,417 --> 00:14:49,153
is like a mirror
of scenes I'm entering.
268
00:14:49,187 --> 00:14:54,993
He has the same desperate
and at times confused outlook,
269
00:14:55,025 --> 00:14:58,496
but minus the one seed
of hope that I have in me.
270
00:15:04,970 --> 00:15:08,273
The relationship
between Peter and David
271
00:15:08,306 --> 00:15:12,009
is one of the most
interesting relationships
272
00:15:12,043 --> 00:15:16,048
between artists
in a very long time.
273
00:15:16,081 --> 00:15:19,518
More interesting
than van Gogh and Gauguin,
274
00:15:19,551 --> 00:15:22,687
very, very special
and unique.
275
00:15:25,155 --> 00:15:27,591
When Peter
started his career
276
00:15:27,625 --> 00:15:29,961
as a photographer
in the '50s,
277
00:15:29,995 --> 00:15:32,630
it was not considered
a real art form.
278
00:15:32,663 --> 00:15:35,299
His photographs
were mostly portraits,
279
00:15:35,332 --> 00:15:37,302
mostly of people he knew,
but he did know
280
00:15:37,335 --> 00:15:39,403
some rather famous people,
you know.
281
00:15:39,437 --> 00:15:43,108
He's truly an artist,
but Peter was very difficult,
282
00:15:43,140 --> 00:15:44,575
and in terms
of having a career,
283
00:15:44,609 --> 00:15:47,112
he was not very good at it.
284
00:15:47,144 --> 00:15:49,648
These works were very small.
285
00:15:49,681 --> 00:15:51,550
The New York Art World
fit in one restaurant.
286
00:15:51,582 --> 00:15:53,184
One restaurant, okay?
287
00:15:53,217 --> 00:15:55,252
I heard of Peter
before I met him.
288
00:15:55,285 --> 00:15:56,988
The number of people
who would have heard of Peter,
289
00:15:57,022 --> 00:15:58,991
you know, 12?
290
00:15:59,024 --> 00:16:01,493
He may have been a saint
on Avenue A,
291
00:16:01,525 --> 00:16:04,228
but it was underground fame.
292
00:16:04,261 --> 00:16:07,431
He did not have
that standing in the quote,
293
00:16:07,465 --> 00:16:11,302
"real art world."
He was stranded.
294
00:16:11,336 --> 00:16:14,339
Nothing was going nowhere.
295
00:16:14,371 --> 00:16:17,341
Howdy-do,
howdy-do.
296
00:16:17,375 --> 00:16:20,044
This is Hujarino again.
297
00:16:20,077 --> 00:16:23,481
I was wondering if David
Steamed Vegetable was there?
298
00:16:23,514 --> 00:16:27,052
This is Peter Fast Juice.
299
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:34,158
Peter last night
in the bar when I told him
300
00:16:34,192 --> 00:16:36,028
about doing a portfolio
and throwing out
301
00:16:36,061 --> 00:16:37,461
all the drawings
that I thought were
302
00:16:37,495 --> 00:16:39,464
aggressive or upsetting
303
00:16:39,496 --> 00:16:42,033
told me not to throw out
any drawings.
304
00:16:42,067 --> 00:16:45,070
No matter what my taste is
and what my ideas are,
305
00:16:45,102 --> 00:16:47,038
if I feel it's good,
there will be somebody
306
00:16:47,072 --> 00:16:48,673
who will pick up on it,
307
00:16:48,706 --> 00:16:50,609
I shouldn't start compromising
308
00:16:50,642 --> 00:16:53,479
and trying to adapt
to other people's taste.
309
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,283
And last night, I was standing
around here 5:00,
310
00:16:59,317 --> 00:17:02,453
6:00 in the morning,
looking through the portfolio,
311
00:17:02,486 --> 00:17:05,790
looking at my photographs.
312
00:17:05,824 --> 00:17:08,060
I was really startled,
it was like the first time
313
00:17:08,093 --> 00:17:09,661
that I sat down
and really looked at them
314
00:17:09,693 --> 00:17:12,297
in ages since I did them.
315
00:17:12,329 --> 00:17:16,233
And I realized
that they are good.
316
00:17:16,267 --> 00:17:18,470
And there's absolutely
no reason for me
317
00:17:18,502 --> 00:17:22,840
to deny them or throw them
away, they're my life.
318
00:17:22,874 --> 00:17:26,178
And I don't owe it to anybody
to distort that
319
00:17:26,211 --> 00:17:28,313
just for their comfort.
320
00:17:28,346 --> 00:17:33,317
I think that everything
David thought an artist could
321
00:17:33,351 --> 00:17:37,389
and should be was embodied
by Peter.
322
00:17:37,422 --> 00:17:40,826
And Peter was the purest
of the lot.
323
00:17:49,299 --> 00:17:53,137
Peter had tremendous
respect for anyone else
324
00:17:53,171 --> 00:17:57,509
who had that same drive,
called them "those people."
325
00:17:57,541 --> 00:18:01,679
And "those people"
were special.
326
00:18:01,712 --> 00:18:05,149
He was a tough judge.
327
00:18:05,182 --> 00:18:09,621
And when he discovered David,
he realized he's one of them.
328
00:18:09,653 --> 00:18:12,356
This guy is one of them.
329
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:15,193
He's talented in a chaotic way.
330
00:18:15,226 --> 00:18:19,798
And Peter saw right away
both the talent and the chaos.
331
00:18:24,434 --> 00:18:26,637
When Peter first met David
and talked about him,
332
00:18:26,671 --> 00:18:29,374
I paid zero attention to Peter
about this. Zero.
333
00:18:29,406 --> 00:18:31,275
I don't pay that much attention
to people I was sleeping with,
334
00:18:31,308 --> 00:18:32,844
I don't know
why I should pay attention
335
00:18:32,876 --> 00:18:34,645
to people that Peter
was sleeping with.
336
00:18:34,679 --> 00:18:36,648
I was under the impression
that he was a teenager
337
00:18:36,681 --> 00:18:38,583
because he had that band
called, like,
338
00:18:38,615 --> 00:18:41,353
4 Teens Kill 3
or 3 Teens Kill 4,
339
00:18:41,385 --> 00:18:42,854
which, of course,
I've never heard of.
340
00:18:42,886 --> 00:18:43,988
♪ Give me all your bibles ♪
341
00:18:44,021 --> 00:18:45,856
♪ Give me all your money,
give me all your bibles ♪
342
00:18:45,890 --> 00:18:47,392
♪ Give me all your money ♪
343
00:18:47,424 --> 00:18:49,394
The story about 3 Teens
344
00:18:49,426 --> 00:18:51,228
playing for the first time,
it has to do with Danceteria
345
00:18:51,261 --> 00:18:53,932
being shut down for not having
a liquor license.
346
00:18:53,964 --> 00:18:55,766
David and I were busboys
at Danceteria.
347
00:18:55,799 --> 00:18:57,469
We worked together.
348
00:18:57,501 --> 00:18:59,738
It was an interesting crowd
of people.
349
00:18:59,770 --> 00:19:01,772
Keith Haring
was a busboy there too,
350
00:19:01,806 --> 00:19:04,476
and Madonna was hanging out.
351
00:19:04,509 --> 00:19:07,245
They advertised
having a full bar
352
00:19:07,278 --> 00:19:08,880
until 8:00 in the morning.
353
00:19:08,913 --> 00:19:13,384
In the time, mind you,
totally a mob operation.
354
00:19:13,417 --> 00:19:15,186
♪ This is a hold up, hold up ♪
355
00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:18,789
♪ hold up, hold up - ♪
356
00:19:24,394 --> 00:19:27,432
We were raided,
and a bunch of us went to jail.
357
00:19:27,464 --> 00:19:29,533
David escaped.
358
00:19:29,567 --> 00:19:32,770
And then he had concocted
a Molotov cocktail,
359
00:19:32,804 --> 00:19:35,807
somehow he was gonna blow up
the police vehicle.
360
00:19:41,412 --> 00:19:43,215
But he couldn't
figure out how to do it
361
00:19:43,248 --> 00:19:45,951
without, you know,
hurting people.
362
00:19:45,983 --> 00:19:48,252
We spent the night
in jail
363
00:19:48,286 --> 00:19:52,457
and then glamorized that event,
you know, we put on a show.
364
00:19:52,490 --> 00:19:55,626
Now, I don't know
why we felt we needed a benefit
365
00:19:55,660 --> 00:19:59,864
for funds because the mob
paid for fucking lawyers
366
00:19:59,896 --> 00:20:03,968
who got our cases dismissed.
367
00:20:05,702 --> 00:20:07,638
Jerry?
368
00:20:07,672 --> 00:20:10,642
A little more volume
on the drums.
369
00:20:10,674 --> 00:20:12,476
And anyway,
we had a benefit
370
00:20:12,509 --> 00:20:14,913
so we threw together a band,
3 Teens Kill 4.
371
00:20:14,945 --> 00:20:17,381
Uno, dos, tres, quatro.
372
00:20:17,414 --> 00:20:23,754
♪ Hear the man whisper,
see the man twistin' ♪
373
00:20:23,788 --> 00:20:25,690
♪ Louie, Louie, Louie,
Louie, Louie ♪
374
00:20:25,722 --> 00:20:28,893
♪ Louie, Louie, Louie,
Louie ♪
375
00:20:28,925 --> 00:20:31,028
Then after we played
the first gig,
376
00:20:31,061 --> 00:20:34,531
Jesse and I and David
wanted to continue it.
377
00:20:34,565 --> 00:20:37,269
I knew
their drummer had fallen out.
378
00:20:37,301 --> 00:20:39,303
I went and bought
a rhythm machine
379
00:20:39,336 --> 00:20:41,006
because I didn't know
how to play anything.
380
00:20:41,038 --> 00:20:42,706
I thought,
"Well, I can push buttons,
381
00:20:42,740 --> 00:20:44,709
so I did that."
382
00:20:44,741 --> 00:20:46,010
I don't think any of us
were very proficient,
383
00:20:46,044 --> 00:20:47,912
but it wasn't really the point.
384
00:20:47,944 --> 00:20:50,347
It was an effort to not
really necessarily make music,
385
00:20:50,381 --> 00:20:53,718
but to have a film almost
for your ears.
386
00:20:59,490 --> 00:21:01,859
We ended up calling it
the Cacophonic Barrage.
387
00:21:03,795 --> 00:21:05,462
As opposed to music.
388
00:21:05,496 --> 00:21:07,499
We were really ahead
of our time
389
00:21:07,531 --> 00:21:10,434
with the use of samples, and
that was David's instrument.
390
00:21:10,468 --> 00:21:13,371
David would come up
to a mic with his handheld
391
00:21:13,403 --> 00:21:15,807
tape recorder and blast sounds.
392
00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:17,509
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
393
00:21:17,541 --> 00:21:20,711
Yes. Because the guns
and the grenade,
394
00:21:20,744 --> 00:21:23,048
are great equalizers.
It used to be said
395
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,084
that a revolver
made all men six feet tall.
396
00:21:27,117 --> 00:21:28,886
I heard a rumor
that Frank Zappa
397
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,389
was in the audience one time
when we played,
398
00:21:31,422 --> 00:21:35,326
and he said that we used
the tapes like lead guitar,
399
00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:36,994
which I thought
was a great comment.
400
00:21:37,028 --> 00:21:39,931
There was a time in America,
401
00:21:39,963 --> 00:21:44,568
that if a, "glory hole"
appears,
402
00:21:44,602 --> 00:21:45,937
the police would throw them
403
00:21:45,970 --> 00:21:50,775
in jail on morals charges.
404
00:21:50,807 --> 00:21:53,644
Limp-wristed sissies.
405
00:21:57,115 --> 00:21:59,683
David wasn't really
of the art world.
406
00:21:59,717 --> 00:22:02,086
At that point in time,
he was just an individual
407
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,821
that was doing his thing.
408
00:22:03,855 --> 00:22:07,092
He used to come over
to my house to make art
409
00:22:07,125 --> 00:22:11,128
because there was more room
in my house than in his house,
410
00:22:11,162 --> 00:22:14,031
which is funny, because I had
a tiny East Village apartment
411
00:22:14,065 --> 00:22:17,369
with a bathtub in the kitchen,
and a toilet in the hallway.
412
00:22:17,402 --> 00:22:19,136
We would get on the floor
and make stencils,
413
00:22:19,170 --> 00:22:21,139
and posters for the band.
414
00:22:25,977 --> 00:22:28,446
We made 12 posters,
put them up in the street,
415
00:22:28,479 --> 00:22:32,650
most of them are ripped down
immediately.
416
00:22:32,682 --> 00:22:34,786
So we started thinking
about more permanent things,
417
00:22:34,818 --> 00:22:38,623
so I started going out
in the street.
418
00:22:38,655 --> 00:22:42,126
I would put up images around
Astor Place along 8th Street.
419
00:22:47,999 --> 00:22:49,500
But I didn't
have any intention
420
00:22:49,534 --> 00:22:51,636
of being a street artist.
421
00:22:51,669 --> 00:22:54,472
I was just being provocative.
422
00:22:54,505 --> 00:22:56,875
Ready on the firing line.
423
00:22:56,907 --> 00:22:58,642
One night,
I went downtown,
424
00:22:58,675 --> 00:23:01,545
did every gallery door
I could find with images
425
00:23:01,578 --> 00:23:07,519
of the burning house,
the plane, and the figure.
426
00:23:07,551 --> 00:23:11,522
It was an aggressive thing.
427
00:23:11,556 --> 00:23:15,460
This idea of New York City
streets filled with soldiers,
428
00:23:15,492 --> 00:23:17,595
that kind of tense atmosphere.
429
00:23:17,627 --> 00:23:19,997
Halt, left flank, halt.
430
00:23:27,805 --> 00:23:29,606
I was just a rabid fan
of David.
431
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,009
He was pretty obscure
at that time.
432
00:23:32,042 --> 00:23:35,846
But I knew about the piece him
and Julie Hair did
433
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,216
on the Leo Castelli building,
434
00:23:38,249 --> 00:23:40,852
the shrine to contemporary art
at that time.
435
00:23:40,884 --> 00:23:42,921
Julie and I wanted to do
a series
436
00:23:42,953 --> 00:23:45,589
of action installations,
which were basically
437
00:23:45,623 --> 00:23:47,692
uninvited installations.
438
00:23:47,724 --> 00:23:51,862
We wanted to open up
what culture was to us
439
00:23:51,895 --> 00:23:56,533
as opposed to what was handled
by rich white people.
440
00:23:56,567 --> 00:24:00,038
I don't really remember
any planning stages of this,
441
00:24:00,070 --> 00:24:03,640
but we went to the west side
442
00:24:03,673 --> 00:24:06,043
where all the butchers were.
443
00:24:06,076 --> 00:24:07,945
The Meatpacking District,
which used to be
444
00:24:07,979 --> 00:24:10,949
a meat packing district,
you would never wanna go there
445
00:24:10,981 --> 00:24:12,850
because of the smell of blood
446
00:24:12,884 --> 00:24:15,819
from the actually butchering
and packing meat.
447
00:24:15,853 --> 00:24:18,722
There were big cans
outside of the butchers'
448
00:24:18,756 --> 00:24:20,992
with giant cow bones in them.
449
00:24:21,025 --> 00:24:22,961
So, we got a bunch of bones,
450
00:24:22,993 --> 00:24:25,230
we put them
in this little wagon.
451
00:24:25,262 --> 00:24:27,164
We brought
a couple hundred pounds
452
00:24:27,198 --> 00:24:31,903
of bloody cow bones,
dumped them into the staircase.
453
00:24:31,935 --> 00:24:35,005
Did a stencil painting with
spray paint of the empty plate,
454
00:24:35,038 --> 00:24:35,973
a knife, and a fork.
455
00:24:36,007 --> 00:24:37,542
Left, right, halt.
456
00:24:37,575 --> 00:24:38,977
And then military bombers,
457
00:24:39,009 --> 00:24:40,545
houses, and planes,
458
00:24:40,577 --> 00:24:42,212
and figures
recoiling on the wall,
459
00:24:42,246 --> 00:24:43,948
and then left.
460
00:24:43,980 --> 00:24:45,650
They stenciled
the despair of New York
461
00:24:45,682 --> 00:24:47,251
at that time,
and then they poured gallons
462
00:24:47,285 --> 00:24:50,153
and gallons of cow's blood
down the stairs.
463
00:24:50,186 --> 00:24:53,690
Nobody seemed to think
anything was amiss.
464
00:24:53,723 --> 00:24:56,760
They had thought it was just
part of the art world.
465
00:24:59,564 --> 00:25:02,534
Left, right, halt.
466
00:25:07,038 --> 00:25:08,573
Six months later,
467
00:25:08,605 --> 00:25:11,108
I was still doing stuff
on the street.
468
00:25:11,142 --> 00:25:12,277
That's when somebody
approached me
469
00:25:12,309 --> 00:25:13,977
from one of the galleries,
470
00:25:14,010 --> 00:25:15,646
asked me if I wanted to put
a painting
471
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,882
in one of the shows,
so I said sure.
472
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,589
David ends up
in a show with people
473
00:25:24,622 --> 00:25:26,891
like Julian Schnabel
and David Hockney,
474
00:25:26,923 --> 00:25:28,292
and lots of people
who were famous.
475
00:25:28,326 --> 00:25:31,863
He was completely unknown.
476
00:25:34,030 --> 00:25:35,832
A lot of artists
were doing graffiti
477
00:25:35,865 --> 00:25:38,702
in the East Village.
Keith Haring and Basquiat,
478
00:25:38,736 --> 00:25:40,672
and David was doing it.
479
00:25:40,704 --> 00:25:42,874
There were
no resources like now
480
00:25:42,906 --> 00:25:44,608
where you can go down
to the Lower East Side
481
00:25:44,642 --> 00:25:46,644
and there's like a dozen
young galleries
482
00:25:46,676 --> 00:25:48,312
you've never heard
of that are showing stuff.
483
00:25:48,346 --> 00:25:50,213
There was nothing.
484
00:25:50,247 --> 00:25:53,351
There was SoHo,
and there was Uptown,
485
00:25:53,384 --> 00:25:56,320
and there were
these established galleries.
486
00:25:56,354 --> 00:25:59,023
We didn't feel
we had any entree into there
487
00:25:59,056 --> 00:26:02,226
so we created space so we could
show our work and have fun.
488
00:26:04,694 --> 00:26:07,197
Dean Savard and I
started the gallery
489
00:26:07,230 --> 00:26:11,269
through a series
of one-night parties.
490
00:26:11,301 --> 00:26:14,638
There was no real intention
of making any money.
491
00:26:14,672 --> 00:26:16,673
We would put the art up
for one night,
492
00:26:16,707 --> 00:26:19,243
we'd invite friends,
we'd sat around on the floor
493
00:26:19,276 --> 00:26:22,314
drinking beer and smoking pot,
talking about art.
494
00:26:24,682 --> 00:26:26,250
When my gallery
first started,
495
00:26:26,282 --> 00:26:29,753
I had gotten I think
$200 back from my taxes.
496
00:26:29,787 --> 00:26:32,056
And I thought, oh,
let's have a party.
497
00:26:32,088 --> 00:26:34,024
I had photographs
in my bathroom
498
00:26:34,057 --> 00:26:36,394
and my bathroom was a toilet
and three walls
499
00:26:36,426 --> 00:26:38,228
because
the bathtub was in the kitchen.
500
00:26:43,299 --> 00:26:46,937
Never did I think that anybody
would show up after the party.
501
00:26:46,971 --> 00:26:48,705
Eventually,
we decided that, oh,
502
00:26:48,739 --> 00:26:51,042
we'll leave the art up
for a little longer.
503
00:26:51,075 --> 00:26:55,813
We were really drawn to David's
militaristic imagery.
504
00:26:55,846 --> 00:26:58,650
We decided that we would
put him into a group show.
505
00:27:01,986 --> 00:27:05,823
We put this really
large painting that David did.
506
00:27:05,855 --> 00:27:09,894
It was one of the most unusual
things I had seen an artist do,
507
00:27:09,926 --> 00:27:13,063
expressing what was going on
around us at the time,
508
00:27:13,096 --> 00:27:15,400
where mankind stood
at that point
509
00:27:15,432 --> 00:27:18,702
where self-annihilation
could occur.
510
00:27:18,736 --> 00:27:21,072
We were actually trying
to sell the work.
511
00:27:21,105 --> 00:27:22,973
I'm trying to remember
how much we were asking for it.
512
00:27:23,007 --> 00:27:26,009
I think probably around $5,000.
513
00:27:26,042 --> 00:27:28,111
Of course we didn't sell it
because nobody was coming
514
00:27:28,144 --> 00:27:32,250
into the gallery with that kind
of money back then.
515
00:27:32,282 --> 00:27:33,950
The interesting thing
about the East Village though,
516
00:27:33,983 --> 00:27:35,720
when there were artists
that were really
517
00:27:35,752 --> 00:27:38,455
kind of special,
everybody knew about it
518
00:27:38,489 --> 00:27:40,290
or there'd be this buzz
about it.
519
00:27:40,324 --> 00:27:42,125
So, there was a little bit
of buzz about David.
520
00:27:42,159 --> 00:27:43,928
He had that book,
Sounds in the Distance,
521
00:27:43,961 --> 00:27:45,430
which came out.
522
00:27:45,462 --> 00:27:47,030
And I was so impressed
because on the back
523
00:27:47,064 --> 00:27:48,865
it had a blurb
by William Burroughs.
524
00:27:48,898 --> 00:27:51,368
And I was like, oh, my God,
this artist
525
00:27:51,402 --> 00:27:53,938
must be really incredible
because William Burroughs
526
00:27:53,971 --> 00:27:56,307
wrote something about it.
527
00:27:56,339 --> 00:28:00,110
When we did the Famous Show,
which was in '82,
528
00:28:00,144 --> 00:28:03,047
we were looking for portraits
of famous people
529
00:28:03,079 --> 00:28:05,348
by famous
and soon to be famous artists.
530
00:28:05,382 --> 00:28:08,186
David brought in this painting,
Peter Hujar
531
00:28:08,219 --> 00:28:11,221
Dreaming about Yukio Mishima
in Saint Sebastian
532
00:28:11,255 --> 00:28:12,957
at the last minute
after everything
533
00:28:12,990 --> 00:28:14,325
was already up on the wall.
534
00:28:14,357 --> 00:28:16,426
- Typical.
- Typical.
535
00:28:16,460 --> 00:28:17,961
There was like no space
536
00:28:17,994 --> 00:28:19,129
because there were
so many people
537
00:28:19,163 --> 00:28:20,998
and he had a really big piece.
538
00:28:21,030 --> 00:28:22,165
So, where are you gonna put
a really big piece?
539
00:28:22,199 --> 00:28:23,835
You hang it from the ceiling.
540
00:28:23,867 --> 00:28:25,769
That's why
I love this photograph
541
00:28:25,803 --> 00:28:28,172
of the opening where you can't
really see any of the art
542
00:28:28,204 --> 00:28:31,141
but you can see David's piece
because it's on the ceiling.
543
00:28:33,844 --> 00:28:35,813
The early images
were all very simple imagines.
544
00:28:35,846 --> 00:28:37,248
But I just wanted
to record things
545
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,149
that I didn't see
people recording
546
00:28:39,182 --> 00:28:41,519
and painting at that time.
547
00:28:41,551 --> 00:28:44,421
You know, I wanted to record
my own history
548
00:28:44,454 --> 00:28:46,990
or different history.
549
00:28:47,023 --> 00:28:49,392
And that's what painting
originally was for me.
550
00:28:49,425 --> 00:28:52,329
All the paintings are diaries
that I always thought
551
00:28:52,363 --> 00:28:55,166
as proof of my own existence.
552
00:29:03,207 --> 00:29:05,409
Welcome 3 Teens Kill 4.
553
00:29:09,380 --> 00:29:11,048
Official
from the Reagan White House
554
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:12,783
confirmed a short time later
555
00:29:12,817 --> 00:29:14,285
that the President
had indeed been shot.
556
00:29:14,317 --> 00:29:17,821
The President was shot
once in the left chest.
557
00:29:17,855 --> 00:29:20,391
The bullet
entered from the left side.
558
00:29:20,423 --> 00:29:22,259
He is in stable condition.
559
00:29:22,292 --> 00:29:23,927
Mrs. Reagan
rushed to the hospital
560
00:29:23,961 --> 00:29:25,363
and the President
jokingly told her,
561
00:29:25,395 --> 00:29:27,831
"Honey, I forgot to duck."
562
00:29:27,865 --> 00:29:29,800
It could be
misconstrued
563
00:29:29,834 --> 00:29:32,937
that one is celebrating
Reagan's assassination attempt.
564
00:29:32,970 --> 00:29:34,572
It's media critique.
565
00:29:34,605 --> 00:29:36,374
He was wheeled
into surgery and he quipped
566
00:29:36,406 --> 00:29:38,542
to his doctors, "I hope
you're all republicans."
567
00:29:43,513 --> 00:29:45,115
♪ We are
non-essential laborers ♪
568
00:29:45,148 --> 00:29:47,050
♪ Laborers, laborers ♪
569
00:29:47,084 --> 00:29:49,053
3 Teens Kill 4
had a song called Hunger
570
00:29:49,086 --> 00:29:52,455
which was about the underclass
and disparity
571
00:29:52,489 --> 00:29:54,225
of wealth in this country.
572
00:29:54,258 --> 00:29:55,593
♪ I see these things
every day ♪
573
00:29:55,625 --> 00:29:57,327
♪ Every day, every day ♪
574
00:29:57,361 --> 00:29:59,130
♪ Television candidates
with singular vision ♪
575
00:29:59,163 --> 00:30:00,498
♪ Vision,
vision, vision, vision ♪
576
00:30:00,530 --> 00:30:02,232
♪ Grey images
of freezing homes ♪
577
00:30:02,266 --> 00:30:03,601
♪ Homes, homes, homes, homes ♪
578
00:30:03,634 --> 00:30:05,303
♪ People combing through
garbage reefs ♪
579
00:30:05,336 --> 00:30:06,604
♪ Garbage reefs,
garbage reefs ♪
580
00:30:06,636 --> 00:30:08,371
♪ So we continue,
so we consume ♪
581
00:30:08,404 --> 00:30:09,973
♪ So we
continue, so we consume ♪
582
00:30:10,007 --> 00:30:11,442
♪ So we continue,
so we consume ♪
583
00:30:11,474 --> 00:30:14,077
♪ So we
continue, so we consume ♪
584
00:30:14,111 --> 00:30:16,514
Last night,
I ran into Brian and Jesse,
585
00:30:16,547 --> 00:30:18,348
discovered them to be
in a big discussion
586
00:30:18,382 --> 00:30:23,120
about the politics of clubs
and politics of bands.
587
00:30:23,153 --> 00:30:26,257
I just did not wanna
hear it.
588
00:30:26,289 --> 00:30:28,091
When you're trying to do
a fucking job
589
00:30:28,125 --> 00:30:30,094
and support yourself
and be able to do things
590
00:30:30,126 --> 00:30:33,463
that you feel
are really important.
591
00:30:33,497 --> 00:30:35,032
There were lots
of different reasons
592
00:30:35,065 --> 00:30:36,901
why he wanted to leave
the band.
593
00:30:36,933 --> 00:30:38,603
He wanted to do painting.
594
00:30:38,635 --> 00:30:40,503
He wanted to have more control
over what he was doing.
595
00:30:40,537 --> 00:30:42,606
I remember having an argument
with David.
596
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,609
He said to me,
"I can't really be friends
597
00:30:44,642 --> 00:30:47,577
with someone who doesn't like
what I do artistically."
598
00:30:47,611 --> 00:30:49,380
I said, "Well, David.
599
00:30:49,413 --> 00:30:51,214
There's a lot of your art
that I don't like
600
00:30:51,248 --> 00:30:53,284
and there's a lot of that anger
that I don't relate to
601
00:30:53,317 --> 00:30:55,452
and don't necessarily
wanna collaborate with."
602
00:30:59,923 --> 00:31:01,325
Hi.
This is Helen of Troy
603
00:31:01,357 --> 00:31:03,627
calling from Poughkeepsie.
604
00:31:03,661 --> 00:31:06,464
Oh, I got you on that one.
Ha-ha. Good-bye.
605
00:31:15,204 --> 00:31:16,273
Hi. This is Hujar.
606
00:31:21,311 --> 00:31:23,313
- Bye.
- David
607
00:31:23,346 --> 00:31:27,684
came over to our place
early one morning.
608
00:31:27,718 --> 00:31:30,521
He said, "You guys
got to come to this huge pier
609
00:31:30,554 --> 00:31:34,158
with all these walls
and there's nobody there."
610
00:31:34,191 --> 00:31:37,560
We had to slip
under a chain-link fence,
611
00:31:37,594 --> 00:31:42,232
got into the building,
and it was a really impressive,
612
00:31:42,266 --> 00:31:46,070
remarkable space,
for years had been abandoned
613
00:31:46,103 --> 00:31:48,640
like a couple football fields
in size.
614
00:31:50,606 --> 00:31:53,109
The idea was for artists
615
00:31:53,143 --> 00:31:56,079
to make work there
surreptitiously.
616
00:31:56,113 --> 00:31:59,283
It was very adventurous
and illegal.
617
00:31:59,316 --> 00:32:00,951
And that was very much
connected
618
00:32:00,984 --> 00:32:03,453
to David's knowledge
of the piers
619
00:32:03,487 --> 00:32:07,258
as a place for sexual tryst
and that whole subculture
620
00:32:07,290 --> 00:32:10,260
around it and in a way
they kind of spoiled that spot.
621
00:32:10,294 --> 00:32:12,229
And no one could go there
for their acts anymore
622
00:32:12,261 --> 00:32:15,198
because there were too many
people traipsing through.
623
00:32:15,231 --> 00:32:19,202
The ground floor
was thousands of square feet
624
00:32:19,236 --> 00:32:21,405
with very high ceilings.
625
00:32:21,438 --> 00:32:23,607
And upstairs there were rooms.
626
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,609
David and I found
627
00:32:25,642 --> 00:32:29,948
piles of discarded files
628
00:32:33,049 --> 00:32:36,319
and psychological evaluations
from Bellevue.
629
00:32:41,191 --> 00:32:43,461
They had them draw
pictures of men and women
630
00:32:43,493 --> 00:32:46,329
and, yeah, most were
very, very loose, you know.
631
00:32:46,363 --> 00:32:48,065
It's like how you drew
632
00:32:48,097 --> 00:32:50,032
in elementary school
or something like that.
633
00:32:50,034 --> 00:32:52,370
And then others were sort of
more you would say like
634
00:32:52,403 --> 00:32:54,471
in quote "sophisticated,"
or this or that.
635
00:32:54,505 --> 00:32:57,174
But they were very emotional
636
00:32:57,207 --> 00:33:00,478
and had a great deal
of resonance in them.
637
00:33:00,510 --> 00:33:02,178
Hi. David, this is Kiki.
638
00:33:02,211 --> 00:33:03,713
I think you've got my squeegee
639
00:33:03,747 --> 00:33:06,116
for silkscreening
and I need it.
640
00:33:06,150 --> 00:33:07,651
Okay. Bye-bye.
641
00:33:07,683 --> 00:33:09,686
So, I was doing
a lot of silkscreening then
642
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:12,623
and I taught him
how to make silkscreens.
643
00:33:15,159 --> 00:33:17,395
So we decided
to use these images
644
00:33:17,428 --> 00:33:20,031
and make a collaboration.
645
00:33:26,804 --> 00:33:29,040
The first time I met David,
646
00:33:29,073 --> 00:33:32,343
it wasn't physically.
647
00:33:32,375 --> 00:33:36,748
It was more mind to mind,
like vibration.
648
00:33:38,714 --> 00:33:40,518
It was summer '83.
649
00:33:40,550 --> 00:33:43,287
I wasn't involved
in the art scene.
650
00:33:43,319 --> 00:33:45,755
But one day,
there's a French photographer
651
00:33:45,788 --> 00:33:50,094
who came to visit New York
and he said,
652
00:33:50,126 --> 00:33:52,062
"Did you hear about
the abandoned pier
653
00:33:52,096 --> 00:33:53,596
where all these artists go
654
00:33:53,630 --> 00:33:55,533
and paint on the walls
and do things?"
655
00:33:55,566 --> 00:33:57,067
And I said, "No."
656
00:34:00,471 --> 00:34:03,140
He took me there.
657
00:34:03,173 --> 00:34:05,576
I fell in love with that place,
you know.
658
00:34:05,608 --> 00:34:10,713
It was like
so deathly romantic.
659
00:34:10,746 --> 00:34:14,417
One day, somebody told me
the story of this artist,
660
00:34:14,451 --> 00:34:17,554
David Wojnarowicz,
who opened the place.
661
00:34:17,588 --> 00:34:21,492
And I remember right away
I had a crush on this guy.
662
00:34:21,525 --> 00:34:24,762
I thought this guy
must really be great, you know,
663
00:34:24,795 --> 00:34:26,563
to open a place like that,
664
00:34:26,597 --> 00:34:31,168
to call people to come
and collaborate and paint.
665
00:34:31,201 --> 00:34:34,271
For me, he was already
somebody special.
666
00:34:36,139 --> 00:34:38,174
In the end, you know,
hundreds of artists
667
00:34:38,208 --> 00:34:40,811
were doing things there
and French fashion magazines
668
00:34:40,844 --> 00:34:43,114
were doing shoots in there.
669
00:34:43,146 --> 00:34:45,650
It got so big that police came.
670
00:34:47,885 --> 00:34:51,122
They closed it down.
671
00:34:51,155 --> 00:34:54,525
The whole magic was lost.
672
00:34:54,557 --> 00:34:58,128
They started tearing it down
673
00:34:58,161 --> 00:35:00,763
and I have a picture
of the Gagging Cow of David's
674
00:35:00,797 --> 00:35:03,201
while the pier
is being pulled down.
675
00:35:05,434 --> 00:35:10,574
And then the pier disappeared
into the river and was gone.
676
00:35:12,509 --> 00:35:16,347
I think the East Village scene
exploded at the same time.
677
00:35:16,380 --> 00:35:18,215
It wasn't until David had
678
00:35:18,248 --> 00:35:20,550
his first solo exhibition
for us
679
00:35:20,583 --> 00:35:23,153
that everything broke loose.
680
00:35:23,186 --> 00:35:25,221
The first exhibition
was very interesting
681
00:35:25,255 --> 00:35:26,690
in a sense
that it was something
682
00:35:26,722 --> 00:35:28,558
nobody had really seen before,
683
00:35:28,592 --> 00:35:30,461
painting things
that weren't really intended
684
00:35:30,494 --> 00:35:32,296
to be painted on.
685
00:35:32,329 --> 00:35:35,332
He'd stencil images
over supermarket posters,
686
00:35:35,364 --> 00:35:38,334
trashcan lids, driftwood.
687
00:35:38,367 --> 00:35:40,503
Everything was about
something that was found
688
00:35:40,536 --> 00:35:42,672
and didn't cost anything
because, again,
689
00:35:42,706 --> 00:35:44,341
nobody had any money.
690
00:35:44,373 --> 00:35:47,177
It was that exhibition
that Grace Glueck,
691
00:35:47,210 --> 00:35:50,446
the New York Times art critic
rode up on her bicycle,
692
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:51,615
started looking
at the artwork,
693
00:35:51,648 --> 00:35:53,550
asking us about the artist
694
00:35:53,583 --> 00:35:57,221
and asked for a photograph
of one of David's pieces.
695
00:35:57,253 --> 00:36:00,723
Grace Glueck showed up,
and it was really a joke to us
696
00:36:00,757 --> 00:36:02,425
that she wanted
to write something.
697
00:36:02,458 --> 00:36:04,594
And so for us,
it was very tongue-in-cheek,
698
00:36:04,628 --> 00:36:06,797
you know, did the very
serious interviews.
699
00:36:06,829 --> 00:36:08,364
And she went around
to other galleries
700
00:36:08,398 --> 00:36:10,367
like Gracie's
and suddenly boom.
701
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,637
An article appeared
in the Sunday Lifestyle section
702
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:15,539
of the New York Times.
703
00:36:15,572 --> 00:36:17,240
It talked about the galleries
in the East Village,
704
00:36:17,273 --> 00:36:18,641
David's artwork.
705
00:36:18,675 --> 00:36:20,244
It was after
that the collectors
706
00:36:20,277 --> 00:36:23,780
really started coming down.
707
00:36:23,813 --> 00:36:28,251
This limousine pulls up
in front of our little gritty
708
00:36:28,284 --> 00:36:30,587
drug-infested street.
709
00:36:30,621 --> 00:36:33,257
Robert Pincus-Witten, who was
an art critic in New York,
710
00:36:33,289 --> 00:36:34,992
and a very elegant woman,
711
00:36:35,025 --> 00:36:36,594
comes into the gallery.
712
00:36:36,626 --> 00:36:38,795
They looked at
each piece, examining.
713
00:36:38,829 --> 00:36:41,231
Robert's whispering
in her ear.
714
00:36:41,264 --> 00:36:44,335
Soon after he said,
"We'll take this one,
715
00:36:44,367 --> 00:36:45,802
this one, this one,
and this one.
716
00:36:45,835 --> 00:36:47,437
We'll take that one
over there."
717
00:36:47,471 --> 00:36:48,871
And it was like, oh, my God.
718
00:36:48,905 --> 00:36:50,874
I practically
ran over to The Pyramid
719
00:36:50,907 --> 00:36:53,443
and David and Dean
were having a beer.
720
00:36:53,476 --> 00:36:55,712
I said, "Oh, my God.
We sold so much work."
721
00:36:55,746 --> 00:36:58,414
It was such a euphoric feeling.
722
00:36:58,447 --> 00:37:00,317
All of a sudden,
the art worlds gave
723
00:37:00,349 --> 00:37:03,487
this East Village scene
its 15 minutes fame.
724
00:37:03,519 --> 00:37:04,655
Our neighborhood
now all of a sudden
725
00:37:04,688 --> 00:37:06,490
had 60 galleries in it
726
00:37:06,523 --> 00:37:09,327
and that people were coming
by in limousines.
727
00:37:10,626 --> 00:37:11,996
"Fuck You Faggot Fucker."
728
00:37:12,028 --> 00:37:13,963
We were going
around the gallery
729
00:37:13,996 --> 00:37:17,835
putting the names on these
little stickers on the wall.
730
00:37:17,867 --> 00:37:19,570
"And what's the name
of this one?"
731
00:37:19,603 --> 00:37:21,606
And David said,
"Fuck You Faggot Fucker."
732
00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:26,777
It's a piece of torn paper
that David found on the street
733
00:37:26,809 --> 00:37:30,280
that somebody had written
this homophobic slur on.
734
00:37:30,313 --> 00:37:33,283
And I said,
"David, that's so offensive.
735
00:37:33,317 --> 00:37:35,019
Do we have to call it that?"
736
00:37:35,052 --> 00:37:37,855
David was like, "That's
the name, it's gonna stick."
737
00:37:37,887 --> 00:37:39,656
"Fuck Faggot Fucker."
738
00:37:39,690 --> 00:37:41,659
I walked in and the painting
just riveted me.
739
00:37:41,692 --> 00:37:44,927
It's two boys kissing
over a map.
740
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:46,829
And then on the four corners,
741
00:37:46,862 --> 00:37:50,400
there is Brian Butterick
posing as Saint Sebastian
742
00:37:50,434 --> 00:37:54,471
and there was David
posing in the Christodora.
743
00:37:54,503 --> 00:37:56,706
I said,
"I'll give you $3,000."
744
00:37:56,739 --> 00:37:58,442
And he said, "Sure."
745
00:37:58,474 --> 00:38:00,810
Back then 1984,
that was a lot of money.
746
00:38:00,844 --> 00:38:04,548
But it's been a prized
possession since then.
747
00:38:04,581 --> 00:38:05,749
Hi, David. It's Marissa.
748
00:38:05,782 --> 00:38:07,418
Prison Rape is back.
749
00:38:07,451 --> 00:38:09,519
It just walked in the door
from Montreal.
750
00:38:09,552 --> 00:38:11,688
So could you come and pick
it up as soon as possible?
751
00:38:11,722 --> 00:38:13,824
Thank you. Bye-bye.
752
00:38:13,856 --> 00:38:16,527
I think a lot of the reason
David is important now
753
00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:19,362
is because people recognized
754
00:38:19,396 --> 00:38:21,731
emergent queer sensibility
in David.
755
00:38:21,764 --> 00:38:23,900
"I'm not gay
as in I love you.
756
00:38:23,934 --> 00:38:27,705
I'm queer as in fuck off."
757
00:38:27,737 --> 00:38:31,841
Everything I did
with David was collaboration.
758
00:38:31,875 --> 00:38:35,713
But the concept of it
has always been David.
759
00:38:35,746 --> 00:38:40,818
He proposed to make a poster
about being queer in America.
760
00:38:40,851 --> 00:38:43,887
David knew a place
under the Brooklyn Bridge.
761
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,755
We went there with a truck.
762
00:38:45,789 --> 00:38:48,625
I put some blood
on David's face.
763
00:38:48,657 --> 00:38:51,594
We lit the scene
with the lights of the truck
764
00:38:51,628 --> 00:38:53,064
and we took the photo.
765
00:38:56,867 --> 00:38:58,602
When I went to the darkroom
766
00:38:58,635 --> 00:39:02,773
and I started printing
the photo, it scared me.
767
00:39:02,806 --> 00:39:05,909
It really scared me
to see this image of David
768
00:39:05,942 --> 00:39:08,445
beat up
coming under the chemicals.
769
00:39:08,478 --> 00:39:09,780
It looked so real.
770
00:39:09,813 --> 00:39:11,148
A number of months ago,
771
00:39:11,181 --> 00:39:12,548
I read in the newspaper
that there was
772
00:39:12,581 --> 00:39:14,117
a Supreme Court ruling
773
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:15,985
which states
that homosexuals in America
774
00:39:16,018 --> 00:39:17,920
have no constitutional rights
775
00:39:17,954 --> 00:39:20,023
against the government's
invasion of their privacy.
776
00:39:20,056 --> 00:39:23,025
The paper stated only people
who are heterosexual,
777
00:39:23,059 --> 00:39:25,596
or married, or have families
778
00:39:25,628 --> 00:39:27,630
can expect
these constitutional rights.
779
00:39:27,664 --> 00:39:30,701
And realizing I got nothing
left to lose in my actions,
780
00:39:30,733 --> 00:39:34,471
I let my hands become weapons,
my teeth become weapons,
781
00:39:34,503 --> 00:39:35,972
every bone,
and muscle, and fiber,
782
00:39:36,005 --> 00:39:37,875
and ounce of blood
become weapons,
783
00:39:37,907 --> 00:39:41,811
and I feel prepared
for the rest of my life.
784
00:39:41,844 --> 00:39:43,513
Hi, David, it's Gracie.
785
00:39:43,547 --> 00:39:46,048
Can you give me a call at home?
786
00:39:46,081 --> 00:39:47,550
About the Whitney.
787
00:39:56,092 --> 00:39:59,430
'85 was a big year.
788
00:39:59,463 --> 00:40:02,900
David had two major pieces
in the Whitney Biennial.
789
00:40:02,932 --> 00:40:04,768
I mean, that's amazing.
790
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,438
Everything happened
really fast.
791
00:40:07,471 --> 00:40:09,072
Hi, I want to make sure
somebody told you
792
00:40:09,105 --> 00:40:10,673
you made the front page
of the Washington Post
793
00:40:10,706 --> 00:40:12,708
on Sunday for the Biennial.
794
00:40:12,742 --> 00:40:15,612
A big reproduction
of your piece, bye-bye.
795
00:40:15,644 --> 00:40:19,650
It was major for all of us
to be accepted
796
00:40:19,682 --> 00:40:22,018
in the bigger art world
797
00:40:22,052 --> 00:40:23,954
but David wasn't, like,
798
00:40:23,987 --> 00:40:26,456
"Oh, my God, I got
into the Whitney Biennial."
799
00:40:26,489 --> 00:40:27,990
- Not at all.
- No.
800
00:40:28,023 --> 00:40:29,826
No, I mean,
he really thought about
801
00:40:29,860 --> 00:40:31,929
whether he wanted to do it.
802
00:40:31,961 --> 00:40:33,764
David has a certain kind
803
00:40:33,797 --> 00:40:35,465
of political consciousness
804
00:40:35,498 --> 00:40:37,800
that plays into his work,
who owns it,
805
00:40:37,833 --> 00:40:40,036
where it's shown,
the whole thing.
806
00:40:40,070 --> 00:40:42,105
He was not
particularly thrilled
807
00:40:42,137 --> 00:40:46,108
about a bunch of rich money
capitalist people
808
00:40:46,141 --> 00:40:48,177
in the Whitney
thinking that he was great.
809
00:40:48,210 --> 00:40:50,513
There's no gratification
for that in him
810
00:40:50,547 --> 00:40:53,784
and those people are very
classist and judgmental.
811
00:40:53,817 --> 00:40:56,619
He wanted
to be recognized by people
812
00:40:56,652 --> 00:40:58,120
that would appreciate his work,
813
00:40:58,153 --> 00:41:00,990
but the right people
for the right reasons.
814
00:41:01,023 --> 00:41:03,993
You know, Peter Hujar
had a lot of the same attitude.
815
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:10,968
Yeah,
it's only been recently
816
00:41:11,001 --> 00:41:13,003
that there's art stars,
there's people
817
00:41:13,036 --> 00:41:15,972
who make tremendous
amounts of money overnight.
818
00:41:22,112 --> 00:41:23,713
I agree.
819
00:41:31,086 --> 00:41:32,956
That's it, I mean,
820
00:41:32,989 --> 00:41:34,590
it's like they turned
into little mini factories.
821
00:41:34,623 --> 00:41:35,725
- There's...
- Yeah, I got...
822
00:41:35,759 --> 00:41:37,159
...nothing human about it.
823
00:41:37,193 --> 00:41:39,897
There's no odor,
there's no stink.
824
00:41:39,929 --> 00:41:41,864
Hey, David, did you know
you're in New York Magazine?
825
00:41:41,898 --> 00:41:43,033
They did a review
at the Biennial
826
00:41:43,065 --> 00:41:44,967
and they reproduced your piece
827
00:41:45,001 --> 00:41:46,803
but I also wanted to talk
to you about the Mnuchin.
828
00:41:46,835 --> 00:41:49,839
Okay, bye-bye.
829
00:41:49,873 --> 00:41:53,911
Adrian and Robert Mnuchin
were two collectors.
830
00:41:53,943 --> 00:41:57,213
He was on Wall Street
and she had a cashmere store
831
00:41:57,246 --> 00:41:58,882
and her name was Adrian.
832
00:41:58,914 --> 00:42:01,050
Now it's like Adriana
or something.
833
00:42:01,083 --> 00:42:03,185
But anyway,
at that time she was Adrian.
834
00:42:03,219 --> 00:42:05,556
They commissioned David
and it was the most money
835
00:42:05,588 --> 00:42:07,891
that David had ever gotten
for anything to do
836
00:42:07,923 --> 00:42:10,960
this big installation
in their basement.
837
00:42:10,994 --> 00:42:13,196
He needed the money
so he was glad
838
00:42:13,228 --> 00:42:16,732
that I had made this sale
but a part of him
839
00:42:16,766 --> 00:42:20,737
really was very unhappy
about it.
840
00:42:20,769 --> 00:42:23,172
David didn't really like
rich people.
841
00:42:25,108 --> 00:42:28,679
So he took all this garbage
off of the street
842
00:42:28,711 --> 00:42:31,114
and put it
into the installation.
843
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:36,219
They were scouring
all the vacant lots
844
00:42:36,251 --> 00:42:39,155
to grab the nastiest shit
they could.
845
00:42:39,188 --> 00:42:41,257
You know, it looked like
the plague had descended
846
00:42:41,291 --> 00:42:43,660
upon their place,
basically filled it with trash
847
00:42:43,693 --> 00:42:45,329
and made a beautiful
installation out of it
848
00:42:45,362 --> 00:42:48,699
but so much of it
just looked like tetanus.
849
00:42:48,731 --> 00:42:52,068
And it had bugs.
850
00:42:52,101 --> 00:42:54,704
Adrian was like freaked out
851
00:42:54,737 --> 00:42:56,606
these bugs were being brought
852
00:42:56,639 --> 00:42:59,775
into her pristine brownstone.
853
00:42:59,809 --> 00:43:01,979
Of course David loved it,
he brought in more.
854
00:43:04,114 --> 00:43:05,849
David, hi, it's Gracie.
855
00:43:05,882 --> 00:43:07,884
I'm just checking in,
seeing how everything's
856
00:43:07,916 --> 00:43:09,318
going with the installation,
857
00:43:09,351 --> 00:43:14,023
if you need any help,
and what's up?
858
00:43:14,056 --> 00:43:16,092
Basically just
a what's up call.
859
00:43:16,126 --> 00:43:17,961
Um, okay.
860
00:43:17,994 --> 00:43:20,064
I wanted to talk to you,
okay, bye-bye.
861
00:43:21,998 --> 00:43:24,900
So when you look at
the photographs Peter Hujar
862
00:43:24,934 --> 00:43:27,903
took of that installation,
it was all garbage,
863
00:43:27,936 --> 00:43:30,773
it was great like
a lot of figures.
864
00:43:30,806 --> 00:43:32,408
There was the burning child
865
00:43:32,442 --> 00:43:34,811
and there was the big mural
in the background,
866
00:43:34,844 --> 00:43:37,047
there was a tree
and a lot of cow skulls.
867
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:39,682
It was an incredible
installation.
868
00:43:39,715 --> 00:43:43,353
Well, in retrospect,
that was Mnuchin.
869
00:43:43,385 --> 00:43:46,889
The A-hole dealer
whose son Steve Mnuchin
870
00:43:46,922 --> 00:43:49,125
is part of Trump's cabinet.
871
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,329
I got really angry
of that sudden attention,
872
00:43:53,362 --> 00:43:55,031
- money being thrown at me.
- Yeah.
873
00:43:55,065 --> 00:43:57,000
I was starving
for years earlier,
874
00:43:57,032 --> 00:43:59,735
and then it suddenly crossed
a line where what I make
875
00:43:59,768 --> 00:44:02,304
is feeding me, is...
it's giving me all this stuff
876
00:44:02,338 --> 00:44:05,042
but then I have all this hate
about the structure of that
877
00:44:05,074 --> 00:44:06,842
- because it's so full of shit.
- Yeah.
878
00:44:06,876 --> 00:44:08,845
And this is something
that rattled me.
879
00:44:08,878 --> 00:44:10,981
I realized that
I came out of a totally violent
880
00:44:11,014 --> 00:44:13,216
fucked-up background
growing up as a kid,
881
00:44:13,248 --> 00:44:15,317
came to New York,
went onto the streets,
882
00:44:15,351 --> 00:44:17,186
almost died on the streets,
883
00:44:17,219 --> 00:44:19,288
but once your economics
are taken care of,
884
00:44:19,322 --> 00:44:21,124
once you no longer
have to struggle
885
00:44:21,157 --> 00:44:24,094
to pay rent or eat,
any shit that's underneath
886
00:44:24,126 --> 00:44:25,895
goes to the surface.
887
00:44:29,398 --> 00:44:32,234
Hi Dave, it's Pat.
888
00:44:32,268 --> 00:44:36,173
I don't know if you're home
or maybe you're sleeping,
889
00:44:36,206 --> 00:44:38,742
well, the first thing
I wanna say
890
00:44:38,775 --> 00:44:42,345
is that your paintings
are fantastic.
891
00:44:42,378 --> 00:44:46,216
I'm so impressed,
I'm so proud of you,
892
00:44:46,248 --> 00:44:48,451
I tried to take pictures
but they wouldn't
893
00:44:48,485 --> 00:44:50,187
let me use the flash and I...
894
00:44:50,219 --> 00:44:52,021
Patty
was always close to David.
895
00:44:52,054 --> 00:44:54,257
I love you a lot, bye.
896
00:44:54,289 --> 00:44:58,461
Even after we grew up,
we were completely split up.
897
00:44:58,494 --> 00:45:01,063
So the first time I ever
learned about his artwork,
898
00:45:01,097 --> 00:45:03,233
I picked up some magazines
899
00:45:03,266 --> 00:45:05,135
and there was David
in Life Magazine.
900
00:45:05,168 --> 00:45:07,738
I was so much in awe with...
I was like,
901
00:45:07,771 --> 00:45:10,340
"Wow, look where this guy
is at," you know.
902
00:45:18,447 --> 00:45:20,382
I finally found a way
to get in touch with him,
903
00:45:20,416 --> 00:45:22,885
it was an interesting thing
to sit down with him,
904
00:45:22,918 --> 00:45:25,321
I came to New York
and he started spewing off
905
00:45:25,355 --> 00:45:29,259
about he was
a child prostitute, he's gay.
906
00:45:29,291 --> 00:45:33,864
And I get the feeling
that he was testing me.
907
00:45:33,896 --> 00:45:35,965
I think he was afraid
908
00:45:35,998 --> 00:45:39,935
that I would never accept him
being gay.
909
00:45:39,969 --> 00:45:43,139
I just was glad
that he was okay.
910
00:45:43,172 --> 00:45:44,974
David, this is Steve calling,
911
00:45:45,007 --> 00:45:47,143
I don't know if you need maps
for your artwork
912
00:45:47,177 --> 00:45:50,347
but I just threw out
about 5,000 of them today.
913
00:45:50,380 --> 00:45:53,450
I worked for AAA
so he had free maps
914
00:45:53,483 --> 00:45:55,952
whenever he needed them,
I'd make sure he got them.
915
00:45:55,985 --> 00:45:57,887
Maybe I can save you
some money.
916
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,290
Okay. Bye-bye.
917
00:46:01,324 --> 00:46:03,193
Hey David,
this is Richard, you know,
918
00:46:03,226 --> 00:46:04,561
I just wanted to get together
with you and talk about
919
00:46:04,594 --> 00:46:05,961
making a movie
or something like that.
920
00:46:05,994 --> 00:46:08,097
I'm up, give me a buzz, bye.
921
00:46:10,166 --> 00:46:11,902
It was one of those nights
922
00:46:11,934 --> 00:46:14,003
David and I
wanted to get high.
923
00:46:14,036 --> 00:46:16,972
I said, "Hey, why don't we
try shooting ecstasy?
924
00:46:17,005 --> 00:46:18,307
I've got some of that."
925
00:46:22,478 --> 00:46:27,317
David and I got into this deep,
deep conversation, I said,
926
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:29,451
"Let's make a movie
where we try to figure out
927
00:46:29,485 --> 00:46:32,122
why young people
are the way they are,
928
00:46:32,155 --> 00:46:35,559
the punks and all that stuff,"
and just shot a quick movie.
929
00:46:35,592 --> 00:46:37,494
I think we did it in a day.
930
00:46:37,527 --> 00:46:40,831
David played the father,
Karen Finley played the mother,
931
00:46:40,864 --> 00:46:43,032
it ended up being
a lot of things
932
00:46:43,065 --> 00:46:45,935
from David's childhood
and he definitely had
933
00:46:45,969 --> 00:46:48,003
the most fucked-up stories.
934
00:46:48,036 --> 00:46:50,472
- Don't get away...
- Stop playing with your food.
935
00:46:50,505 --> 00:46:52,308
Do you call this food?
936
00:46:52,342 --> 00:46:54,443
Look, it isn't even fucking
cooked, it's all bloody.
937
00:46:54,476 --> 00:46:56,145
Shut up.
938
00:46:56,179 --> 00:46:58,048
David said that
when he was a kid,
939
00:46:58,081 --> 00:46:59,316
they had a rabbit.
940
00:46:59,349 --> 00:47:00,984
My father got us rabbits
941
00:47:01,016 --> 00:47:03,419
and he said
he gave away the rabbits
942
00:47:03,452 --> 00:47:06,322
and then Patty
found out somehow
943
00:47:06,356 --> 00:47:08,258
that he had them butchered
and we winded up
944
00:47:08,291 --> 00:47:11,228
eating our pet rabbit
which I think was horrific.
945
00:47:11,260 --> 00:47:13,396
And it really
bothered David too.
946
00:47:13,429 --> 00:47:16,333
- You know what this is?
- No.
947
00:47:18,333 --> 00:47:19,869
See that?
948
00:47:19,902 --> 00:47:21,370
That's my bunny,
what are doing to it?
949
00:47:21,403 --> 00:47:24,273
And you know what this is?
950
00:47:24,306 --> 00:47:27,543
No, no, no.
951
00:47:27,577 --> 00:47:30,146
David finally
was starting to deal
952
00:47:30,179 --> 00:47:33,349
with what had happened to him
during his childhood.
953
00:47:33,382 --> 00:47:36,118
He started using heroin.
954
00:47:36,152 --> 00:47:41,224
It was almost a social drug
in the East Village.
955
00:47:41,257 --> 00:47:44,059
I got some junk
that I had lying around,
956
00:47:44,092 --> 00:47:47,263
so I did it in the bathroom.
957
00:47:47,297 --> 00:47:50,400
The light and everything just
started making me feel sick.
958
00:47:52,068 --> 00:47:53,536
David took drugs in a way
959
00:47:53,568 --> 00:47:56,373
that Peter was sure
would destroy him.
960
00:47:56,405 --> 00:47:59,643
And Peter knew too much
about the way artists
961
00:47:59,675 --> 00:48:02,112
can sabotage themselves
to let that
962
00:48:02,144 --> 00:48:03,980
go one step further.
963
00:48:04,012 --> 00:48:05,481
At some point, Peter said,
964
00:48:05,514 --> 00:48:08,951
"David, what are those marks
on your arm?"
965
00:48:08,985 --> 00:48:10,553
He said, "Oh, it's nothing."
966
00:48:10,585 --> 00:48:12,488
He said,
"Don't tell me it's nothing
967
00:48:12,521 --> 00:48:17,126
and you're going to stop
taking heroin today, right now.
968
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:20,297
You will never take it again
as long as you live
969
00:48:20,329 --> 00:48:24,134
and if you do, I will
never speak to you again,
970
00:48:24,166 --> 00:48:26,068
you will be dead to me."
971
00:48:26,101 --> 00:48:29,471
David started crying
and he'd stopped heroin.
972
00:48:29,505 --> 00:48:32,175
He never took it again
because Peter was the most
973
00:48:32,208 --> 00:48:35,945
important relationship
in his life.
974
00:48:35,978 --> 00:48:37,413
They first had an affair
975
00:48:37,447 --> 00:48:40,617
but I don't think
that lasted that long.
976
00:48:40,650 --> 00:48:43,286
And then they were friends
but at a certain point,
977
00:48:43,318 --> 00:48:46,355
I really thought of David
as Peter's son.
978
00:48:46,389 --> 00:48:48,024
Peter didn't think of him
as Peter's son
979
00:48:48,056 --> 00:48:49,224
and probably David didn't
but to me,
980
00:48:49,257 --> 00:48:50,426
that's what it seemed like.
981
00:49:18,286 --> 00:49:20,990
I met David
at the Bijou Theater
982
00:49:22,592 --> 00:49:25,262
which was a gay porn theater.
983
00:49:26,728 --> 00:49:30,466
Our eyes met and we went
to the bathroom
984
00:49:30,500 --> 00:49:33,068
and had a little bit of sex
and I said,
985
00:49:33,101 --> 00:49:35,471
"Why don't you come over
to my apartment?"
986
00:49:35,505 --> 00:49:38,641
Which I rarely did with people
that I met there,
987
00:49:38,673 --> 00:49:42,077
but I was just fascinated
with this guy.
988
00:49:42,110 --> 00:49:44,513
We left and I asked David
what he did and he said
989
00:49:44,547 --> 00:49:46,081
he was a painter and I said,
990
00:49:46,114 --> 00:49:48,050
"What, of houses?"
And he said,
991
00:49:48,083 --> 00:49:49,418
"No, no, no, no,
I paint things."
992
00:49:49,452 --> 00:49:51,321
And apparently
he was quite well-known
993
00:49:51,353 --> 00:49:53,255
in the East Village
and I didn't know who he was,
994
00:49:53,289 --> 00:49:55,057
I had no idea.
995
00:49:55,090 --> 00:49:59,228
So he came over and we had
a really sweet night.
996
00:49:59,262 --> 00:50:00,730
He left me a little painting
997
00:50:00,762 --> 00:50:03,032
that he did for me
that I really loved.
998
00:50:03,065 --> 00:50:05,634
And we started
seeing each other.
999
00:50:08,371 --> 00:50:11,240
I felt my world was very
different after I met David.
1000
00:50:11,273 --> 00:50:14,443
I was totally swept up
with him.
1001
00:50:14,476 --> 00:50:17,212
So here I am, heading out
into the cold winds
1002
00:50:17,246 --> 00:50:19,282
of the canyon streets,
walking down and across
1003
00:50:19,315 --> 00:50:20,717
Avenue C towards my home,
1004
00:50:20,750 --> 00:50:22,485
with the smell
and the taste of him
1005
00:50:22,518 --> 00:50:26,088
wrapped around my neck and jaw
like some scarf.
1006
00:50:26,121 --> 00:50:28,123
And how it follows me
in and out of restaurants
1007
00:50:28,157 --> 00:50:30,626
and past cops,
and early morning children,
1008
00:50:30,659 --> 00:50:33,128
and past bakery windows
filled with brides and grooms
1009
00:50:33,161 --> 00:50:37,099
on rows, and rows, and rows
of endless wedding cakes.
1010
00:50:37,132 --> 00:50:38,534
Hey, juicy lips,
are you there?
1011
00:50:38,568 --> 00:50:40,403
It's about 12:00...
1012
00:50:40,436 --> 00:50:43,173
David kept talking
about this best friend of his
1013
00:50:43,206 --> 00:50:45,809
that he had in the East Village
and we had to go see him,
1014
00:50:45,842 --> 00:50:47,577
and his name was Peter
and then Peter,
1015
00:50:47,610 --> 00:50:49,813
and all of a sudden I said,
1016
00:50:49,846 --> 00:50:51,514
"Are you talking about
Peter Hujar?"
1017
00:50:51,547 --> 00:50:53,550
And he said,
"Well, how did you know that?"
1018
00:50:53,583 --> 00:50:55,285
Howdy-do, howdy-do?
1019
00:50:55,318 --> 00:50:57,653
I said, "Well,
I had a little affair
1020
00:50:57,686 --> 00:51:00,289
in the '70s with Peter
for a month,"
1021
00:51:00,322 --> 00:51:01,824
and I kept thinking,
"Oh, great,
1022
00:51:01,858 --> 00:51:04,160
Peter's gonna tell him
I'm an asshole."
1023
00:51:04,193 --> 00:51:07,797
But Peter thought actually
that I was good for David,
1024
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:09,632
you know,
that I could help David,
1025
00:51:09,664 --> 00:51:13,603
I could be a settling
kind of thing for him
1026
00:51:13,635 --> 00:51:15,637
which actually
probably is true.
1027
00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:18,674
But they were so close
that it was...
1028
00:51:18,708 --> 00:51:20,410
I couldn't even describe
what that was,
1029
00:51:20,443 --> 00:51:22,278
much different
than our relationship
1030
00:51:22,311 --> 00:51:23,780
and I was just
trying to figure out
1031
00:51:23,813 --> 00:51:25,414
where I fit in his life.
1032
00:51:25,447 --> 00:51:27,317
He said,
"I have three priorities,
1033
00:51:27,349 --> 00:51:30,686
in this order, Peter,
my art, and you."
1034
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,155
And I had to find
that to be okay,
1035
00:51:33,188 --> 00:51:35,757
it was hard at first
but as I looked at it,
1036
00:51:35,791 --> 00:51:37,327
I realized
there was no threat there.
1037
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,162
This was a whole other thing.
1038
00:51:44,567 --> 00:51:46,168
Hi David,
this is Carlo
1039
00:51:46,202 --> 00:51:48,138
wishing you a Happy New Year.
1040
00:51:48,170 --> 00:51:49,605
Hi David,
this is Bridgette,
1041
00:51:49,639 --> 00:51:52,242
I wanted to wish you
Happy New Year.
1042
00:51:52,275 --> 00:51:54,443
Howdy-do, howdy-do?
1043
00:51:54,476 --> 00:51:56,145
It's the nufter.
1044
00:51:56,179 --> 00:51:57,680
And the monks last night
were great,
1045
00:51:57,713 --> 00:51:58,848
you would've actually
loved them.
1046
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,549
I think there were 10 of them
1047
00:52:00,583 --> 00:52:03,820
and they sang in voices
that was like, "Whoa."
1048
00:52:03,853 --> 00:52:05,188
You know, deeper than that.
1049
00:52:05,221 --> 00:52:07,724
"Oh, uh." No, I can't do it.
1050
00:52:07,757 --> 00:52:12,195
"Oh, hmm, uh."
1051
00:52:12,228 --> 00:52:13,329
It was really nice,
1052
00:52:13,362 --> 00:52:16,166
they did a healing ceremony.
1053
00:52:16,199 --> 00:52:18,768
Well, anyway, that's all
I have to say, goodbye.
1054
00:52:25,608 --> 00:52:27,644
I took Peter to the doctor.
1055
00:52:27,677 --> 00:52:30,280
I don't remember
what was wrong with Peter
1056
00:52:30,313 --> 00:52:33,849
or how Peter felt
that made him have that test.
1057
00:52:33,882 --> 00:52:35,684
They didn't tell you there.
1058
00:52:35,717 --> 00:52:37,819
It took two weeks
for this test to come back.
1059
00:52:37,853 --> 00:52:42,659
And I remember very much
that Peter called me,
1060
00:52:42,692 --> 00:52:44,661
and I can't describe to you.
1061
00:52:44,693 --> 00:52:47,529
I said, "What... how are you?"
And he goes, "Fran,"
1062
00:52:47,563 --> 00:52:50,833
and then he made the sound
like, um, like a...
1063
00:52:50,865 --> 00:52:52,902
not a scream
but kind of a scream.
1064
00:52:52,934 --> 00:52:55,204
It more sounded to me
like an animal sound,
1065
00:52:55,237 --> 00:52:56,739
not like a human.
1066
00:52:56,771 --> 00:53:00,309
He said his test
came back positive.
1067
00:53:00,342 --> 00:53:02,411
When Peter
was diagnosed with AIDS,
1068
00:53:02,445 --> 00:53:03,813
I came over 10 minutes later.
1069
00:53:03,846 --> 00:53:05,548
He went to meet me at the door
1070
00:53:05,581 --> 00:53:07,483
and there was some
mail that had arrived
1071
00:53:07,516 --> 00:53:08,918
and it fell on the floor and I
remember him picking it up
1072
00:53:08,951 --> 00:53:10,686
and turning
and just saying,
1073
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:12,955
"Even something like
getting a piece of mail
1074
00:53:12,989 --> 00:53:15,391
has an entirely
different meaning."
1075
00:53:15,423 --> 00:53:18,228
And from that,
I constructed something
1076
00:53:18,260 --> 00:53:20,362
of what this man is facing.
1077
00:53:25,434 --> 00:53:26,702
And I felt very sad.
1078
00:53:26,735 --> 00:53:28,538
I felt angry. I felt fear.
1079
00:53:28,570 --> 00:53:32,442
I felt the possibility
of my own diagnosis.
1080
00:53:32,474 --> 00:53:34,277
David was sitting
at the table
1081
00:53:34,309 --> 00:53:35,612
and he was crying
and I didn't know
1082
00:53:35,644 --> 00:53:37,347
what was going on
and he told me
1083
00:53:37,380 --> 00:53:39,582
that Peter
had been diagnosed with AIDS.
1084
00:53:39,614 --> 00:53:41,250
He was destroyed.
1085
00:53:41,284 --> 00:53:42,619
I mean,
it was so emotional for him.
1086
00:53:42,652 --> 00:53:45,655
It was so upsetting.
1087
00:53:45,688 --> 00:53:47,456
When Peter was diagnosed,
1088
00:53:47,489 --> 00:53:50,259
David asked me
if I could help him
1089
00:53:50,293 --> 00:53:52,295
because Peter
really had no income.
1090
00:53:52,327 --> 00:53:54,463
He had no money.
He had no... he had nothing
1091
00:53:54,496 --> 00:53:57,266
and he didn't wanna lose
his apartment.
1092
00:53:57,300 --> 00:54:00,937
I worked as Director of
New York City's AIDS Program.
1093
00:54:00,969 --> 00:54:04,373
And it was through Tom
that I met David.
1094
00:54:04,407 --> 00:54:08,311
This was an epidemic
of great proportions.
1095
00:54:10,579 --> 00:54:13,449
And the city ignored it
for quite a while.
1096
00:54:13,481 --> 00:54:15,518
In fact, everyone ignored it.
1097
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,630
People with AIDS
who were getting sick
1098
00:54:28,664 --> 00:54:31,467
and losing their jobs,
were coming to apply
1099
00:54:31,500 --> 00:54:34,436
for public assistance.
1100
00:54:34,469 --> 00:54:36,972
Because AIDS had
a stigma already,
1101
00:54:37,005 --> 00:54:39,641
none of the traditional systems
in place
1102
00:54:39,675 --> 00:54:41,377
wanted anything
to do with them.
1103
00:54:41,409 --> 00:54:43,645
The staff wouldn't touch
their paperwork.
1104
00:54:43,679 --> 00:54:46,750
They often died before
they got any benefits at all.
1105
00:54:48,884 --> 00:54:52,322
Mayor Koch finally decided that
something needed to be done.
1106
00:54:52,355 --> 00:54:55,692
He started a very little
program and I have to say,
1107
00:54:55,724 --> 00:54:58,795
we probably broke every rule
in the book
1108
00:54:58,827 --> 00:55:00,929
in order to get people
what they needed.
1109
00:55:02,931 --> 00:55:05,567
So I went over
like a good caseworker,
1110
00:55:05,601 --> 00:55:07,603
and I fell in love with him.
1111
00:55:07,635 --> 00:55:10,972
I mean,
he was an amazing person.
1112
00:55:11,005 --> 00:55:14,009
I could certainly ease
a lot of his fears,
1113
00:55:14,043 --> 00:55:16,679
he couldn't believe that
he wouldn't lose his apartment
1114
00:55:16,711 --> 00:55:20,349
and he'd have
some kind of income.
1115
00:55:20,382 --> 00:55:22,617
Hippity-hoppity
happy Easter eggs.
1116
00:55:22,650 --> 00:55:25,721
This is Peter Cottontail.
1117
00:55:25,755 --> 00:55:27,957
This is the
ex-Peter Cottontail.
1118
00:55:31,393 --> 00:55:32,694
Are you there?
1119
00:55:32,728 --> 00:55:34,731
Hello? Howdy-do?
1120
00:55:34,764 --> 00:55:36,666
Peter was prone
to great depression,
1121
00:55:36,699 --> 00:55:39,668
I mean, he never took a photo
after his diagnosis.
1122
00:55:39,702 --> 00:55:41,971
He gave it up entirely.
1123
00:55:51,646 --> 00:55:53,382
A couple of times,
I did confront him
1124
00:55:53,416 --> 00:55:55,051
because I thought he was stuck.
1125
00:55:55,083 --> 00:55:56,885
And that was the only time
I allowed myself
1126
00:55:56,918 --> 00:55:58,554
to confront him
when I thought that he was just
1127
00:55:58,586 --> 00:56:01,757
shutting down
and so full of rage
1128
00:56:01,791 --> 00:56:04,626
and not strong enough
to express it.
1129
00:56:14,769 --> 00:56:16,639
And I remember him
threatening to throw himself
1130
00:56:16,672 --> 00:56:18,507
in front of a car
because he was mad.
1131
00:56:18,541 --> 00:56:20,109
But he didn't have the strength
to walk to the curb
1132
00:56:20,141 --> 00:56:23,745
and throw himself
in front of the car.
1133
00:56:23,778 --> 00:56:26,148
He talked about killing himself
endlessly, brutally.
1134
00:56:26,181 --> 00:56:27,817
"I wanna go to that building
across the street
1135
00:56:27,849 --> 00:56:29,485
and jump off the roof"
and he would say,
1136
00:56:29,518 --> 00:56:31,487
"I'm gonna do it.
I'm gonna do it."
1137
00:56:31,519 --> 00:56:33,722
And he would say it every day
until one day we gave him
1138
00:56:33,755 --> 00:56:35,690
a number of a doctor
who would give medicine
1139
00:56:35,724 --> 00:56:36,826
to kill himself.
1140
00:56:36,858 --> 00:56:38,193
And once I gave him the number,
1141
00:56:38,226 --> 00:56:39,594
he tucked it away
and never spoke
1142
00:56:39,628 --> 00:56:41,431
about killing himself again.
1143
00:56:58,213 --> 00:57:00,615
David had like a huge career,
1144
00:57:00,648 --> 00:57:02,617
then when I did
The Four Elements,
1145
00:57:02,650 --> 00:57:05,454
we didn't sell a thing.
It was over.
1146
00:57:05,487 --> 00:57:07,722
The art world
if very fickle like that.
1147
00:57:07,755 --> 00:57:10,725
Once you start getting
a certain amount of something,
1148
00:57:10,759 --> 00:57:15,197
you have to keep it going,
or it fizzles out.
1149
00:57:15,231 --> 00:57:19,035
I had this naive sense
that once people supported work
1150
00:57:19,068 --> 00:57:22,505
then, that doesn't
just disappear that, you know,
1151
00:57:22,538 --> 00:57:24,106
that they'll watch what you do
1152
00:57:24,139 --> 00:57:26,709
and they'll take interest
and they'll follow it,
1153
00:57:26,742 --> 00:57:29,545
which isn't the case at all.
1154
00:57:29,577 --> 00:57:32,648
It was the end
of the East Village scene
1155
00:57:32,681 --> 00:57:35,050
and the so-called
East Village art
1156
00:57:35,083 --> 00:57:37,553
had just gone out of style.
1157
00:57:42,690 --> 00:57:44,526
Hi, this is Hujar.
1158
00:57:44,559 --> 00:57:46,661
I'm on my way
to the horse pistol
1159
00:57:46,695 --> 00:57:48,698
to stay there for a while.
1160
00:57:48,731 --> 00:57:52,902
I guess you can find my number
by calling Cabrini Hospital.
1161
00:57:52,934 --> 00:57:55,137
Goodbye.
1162
00:57:55,170 --> 00:57:56,972
He lost weight.
1163
00:57:57,005 --> 00:58:00,009
He had the beginnings
of dementia.
1164
00:58:00,041 --> 00:58:02,944
He just was kind of
fading away.
1165
00:58:02,978 --> 00:58:04,680
I'm sitting
in his hospital room
1166
00:58:04,713 --> 00:58:07,517
so high up in the upper
reaches of the building
1167
00:58:07,550 --> 00:58:09,919
and leaning against the glass
to the window of his room
1168
00:58:09,952 --> 00:58:12,688
where I can see dizzily down
into the street.
1169
00:58:12,721 --> 00:58:15,858
It's a gradual turn of
the Earth outside the windows.
1170
00:58:15,891 --> 00:58:18,695
I wonder what it is to fall
such distances.
1171
00:58:20,728 --> 00:58:23,865
I'm afraid he's really dying.
1172
00:58:23,898 --> 00:58:28,069
And he barely opens his eyes
for more than a few seconds.
1173
00:58:28,103 --> 00:58:29,771
And his breath was coming
1174
00:58:29,804 --> 00:58:34,009
in rapid fire bursts
like machine gun.
1175
00:58:34,043 --> 00:58:36,546
I turn from the silence
in the window and look at him
1176
00:58:36,579 --> 00:58:40,016
and an iris appears
beneath one half-lifted eyelid
1177
00:58:40,048 --> 00:58:43,052
and its strength bores
right through me.
1178
00:58:43,085 --> 00:58:44,820
And I turn away
almost embarrassed,
1179
00:58:44,853 --> 00:58:48,824
having as much life in me
as he has.
1180
00:58:48,856 --> 00:58:51,760
- Stand up and fight.
- Okay.
1181
00:58:54,262 --> 00:58:57,065
It was Thanksgiving
and I met David
1182
00:58:57,099 --> 00:59:00,135
in Peter's room
at the hospital.
1183
00:59:00,168 --> 00:59:04,272
Ethyl Eichelberger was there
and Peter was in a coma.
1184
00:59:04,306 --> 00:59:06,041
I mean, he really
wasn't responsive
1185
00:59:06,074 --> 00:59:07,710
in any kind of way.
1186
00:59:10,679 --> 00:59:14,884
We're all sitting there
and Ethyl says very quietly,
1187
00:59:14,916 --> 00:59:17,052
"He's not breathing anymore.
1188
00:59:17,085 --> 00:59:19,087
His chest
isn't going up and down."
1189
00:59:22,925 --> 00:59:24,794
We called the nurse in.
1190
00:59:24,827 --> 00:59:27,297
And the nurse said,
"Yes, he had passed."
1191
00:59:33,735 --> 00:59:35,170
And then David says,
1192
00:59:35,204 --> 00:59:37,073
"Could you all
leave me alone with him?"
1193
00:59:43,144 --> 00:59:45,081
If I could attach
our blood vessels
1194
00:59:45,114 --> 00:59:48,284
so that we would become
each other, I would.
1195
00:59:48,317 --> 00:59:50,920
If I could attach
our blood vessels
1196
00:59:50,952 --> 00:59:53,088
in order to anchor you
to the Earth,
1197
00:59:53,121 --> 00:59:56,692
to this present time, to me,
I would.
1198
00:59:58,293 --> 01:00:01,896
It makes me weep
to feel the history of you,
1199
01:00:01,929 --> 01:00:04,634
of your flesh beneath my hands,
1200
01:00:04,666 --> 01:00:06,869
in a time of so much loss.
1201
01:00:08,903 --> 01:00:12,108
It makes me weep,
all these moments
1202
01:00:12,141 --> 01:00:15,845
will be lost in time
like tears in rain.
1203
01:00:19,213 --> 01:00:21,317
Smell the flowers
while you can.
1204
01:00:23,284 --> 01:00:27,355
When Peter died,
I went out to dinner with Anita
1205
01:00:27,389 --> 01:00:30,893
and this nurse,
he was talking about,
1206
01:00:30,925 --> 01:00:32,894
sometimes you could tell
somebody was infected
1207
01:00:32,927 --> 01:00:34,864
because they'd get
a string of pearls
1208
01:00:34,896 --> 01:00:39,300
along your neck which was
glands that would swell up.
1209
01:00:39,333 --> 01:00:41,736
So while I'm sitting there,
1210
01:00:41,769 --> 01:00:43,838
I run the fingers down
my neck and sure enough
1211
01:00:43,871 --> 01:00:46,308
I have a string of pearls,
swollen glands.
1212
01:00:48,177 --> 01:00:51,047
I decided to get tested.
1213
01:00:51,079 --> 01:00:53,315
It came back positive.
1214
01:00:53,347 --> 01:00:56,085
I had pretty good T cell
at that point.
1215
01:00:56,117 --> 01:00:58,253
I wasn't sick or anything.
1216
01:00:58,286 --> 01:01:01,056
David, he was very sympathetic
and very supportive
1217
01:01:01,090 --> 01:01:02,792
but then at some point,
I said,
1218
01:01:02,824 --> 01:01:04,125
"You know,
you're being very supportive,
1219
01:01:04,159 --> 01:01:07,963
but you don't know
your status."
1220
01:01:07,996 --> 01:01:09,231
The first time I saw David,
1221
01:01:09,264 --> 01:01:12,168
David had markers of infection,
1222
01:01:12,201 --> 01:01:14,170
oral candidiasis, thrush.
1223
01:01:14,202 --> 01:01:16,338
He didn't have a competent
immune system.
1224
01:01:16,371 --> 01:01:19,208
I don't think this came
as a shock to David.
1225
01:01:23,478 --> 01:01:26,715
Hi, I just woke up.
1226
01:01:26,748 --> 01:01:30,251
Waking up every hour
1227
01:01:30,284 --> 01:01:32,187
for the last,
1228
01:01:32,221 --> 01:01:34,222
I don't know,
three or four hours.
1229
01:01:39,260 --> 01:01:41,831
So I was diagnosed with ARC
1230
01:01:41,864 --> 01:01:44,833
sometime in the summer.
1231
01:01:44,867 --> 01:01:48,237
Now near the end of November,
1232
01:01:48,269 --> 01:01:50,940
I'm living at Peter's house,
Peter Hujar,
1233
01:01:50,972 --> 01:01:54,177
because I couldn't afford
the other apartment that I had.
1234
01:02:03,318 --> 01:02:05,121
David came back positive
1235
01:02:05,153 --> 01:02:08,389
but his T cells
were really ravaged.
1236
01:02:08,422 --> 01:02:10,058
David asked Dr. Friedman,
1237
01:02:10,092 --> 01:02:12,294
"Do I have so few
that I can name them?"
1238
01:02:12,327 --> 01:02:13,996
Back then,
the magic number
1239
01:02:14,028 --> 01:02:16,297
was 200 T cells.
1240
01:02:16,331 --> 01:02:20,269
If you could keep the patient
at 200 T cells or higher,
1241
01:02:20,302 --> 01:02:23,405
there'd be less
opportunistic infections.
1242
01:02:23,438 --> 01:02:26,075
He had less than a hundred
when he was tested
1243
01:02:26,108 --> 01:02:28,144
so he was already in bad shape.
1244
01:02:28,177 --> 01:02:29,812
Peter, hi.
1245
01:02:29,844 --> 01:02:31,846
It's... oh, Peter, oh, my God.
1246
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,550
I'm looking at the name,
what a...
1247
01:02:34,583 --> 01:02:38,253
unbelievable
psychological slur.
1248
01:02:38,286 --> 01:02:40,789
This is Gracie calling
for David.
1249
01:02:40,822 --> 01:02:42,357
He came in to the gallery
and told us.
1250
01:02:42,391 --> 01:02:44,293
He was very quiet about it.
1251
01:02:44,326 --> 01:02:47,829
I mean, he came in and he said
that he'd just been tested
1252
01:02:47,862 --> 01:02:50,031
and he found out
that he had it.
1253
01:02:50,065 --> 01:02:52,101
It was devastating for me.
1254
01:02:52,134 --> 01:02:55,471
I mean, I felt very protective
of David.
1255
01:02:55,503 --> 01:02:58,840
When Keith Haring came out
about having AIDS,
1256
01:02:58,873 --> 01:03:01,509
it just seemed like
everybody had to run,
1257
01:03:01,543 --> 01:03:04,313
buy something of his because
he was gonna die of AIDS.
1258
01:03:04,346 --> 01:03:06,181
He had AIDS
and he was gonna die.
1259
01:03:06,215 --> 01:03:09,451
It was so gross
how Keith was treated
1260
01:03:09,483 --> 01:03:12,387
and how everything around him,
what that was all about,
1261
01:03:12,420 --> 01:03:14,556
and I didn't want that
for David.
1262
01:03:14,590 --> 01:03:17,026
I mean,
I knew how private David was
1263
01:03:17,059 --> 01:03:21,530
and so when he told me,
my first reaction was
1264
01:03:21,563 --> 01:03:23,865
that we shouldn't tell anyone.
1265
01:03:23,898 --> 01:03:25,467
Which of course
is the wrong response
1266
01:03:25,500 --> 01:03:27,036
to have with David.
1267
01:03:27,068 --> 01:03:29,137
That's when I picked up
the phone
1268
01:03:29,170 --> 01:03:30,839
and called Barry Blinderman
and said,
1269
01:03:30,873 --> 01:03:33,943
"You have to do this
retrospective now,
1270
01:03:33,976 --> 01:03:36,378
like, now."
1271
01:03:39,414 --> 01:03:41,884
She was right
and that this is what I do,
1272
01:03:41,916 --> 01:03:43,952
books and retrospectives
and...
1273
01:03:43,985 --> 01:03:46,554
I was an avid fan
of his work.
1274
01:03:46,588 --> 01:03:49,490
I bought the painting,
Fuck You Faggot Fucker,
1275
01:03:49,523 --> 01:03:51,460
back in 1984.
1276
01:03:51,492 --> 01:03:54,063
There was an urgency
to do the show
1277
01:03:54,096 --> 01:03:56,264
while he was alive.
1278
01:03:56,297 --> 01:03:59,434
I wrote a grant to the NEA,
1279
01:03:59,467 --> 01:04:02,605
got the grant worth $15,000
1280
01:04:02,637 --> 01:04:07,009
and started working with David
planning the exhibition,
1281
01:04:07,041 --> 01:04:08,376
then the catalogue.
1282
01:04:13,614 --> 01:04:15,583
I thought the phrase
"Tongues of Flame"
1283
01:04:15,617 --> 01:04:17,920
was very appropriate.
It's a biblical reference.
1284
01:04:17,952 --> 01:04:19,554
It's a reference to a play.
It's a reference
1285
01:04:19,588 --> 01:04:21,023
to a silent movie.
1286
01:04:21,056 --> 01:04:23,157
But mostly, Tongues of Flame,
1287
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:27,096
I'm thinking what a...
an amazing orator he was.
1288
01:04:27,128 --> 01:04:28,963
I was thinking
about the Burning Child,
1289
01:04:28,996 --> 01:04:30,932
I was thinking
about the Burning House,
1290
01:04:30,965 --> 01:04:34,168
the incendiary aspect of it,
the passion.
1291
01:04:34,202 --> 01:04:37,206
And it just seemed like
everything that was connected
1292
01:04:37,239 --> 01:04:40,009
with David was on fire.
1293
01:04:43,612 --> 01:04:45,146
One of the things
that happened
1294
01:04:45,179 --> 01:04:47,415
after my diagnosis
is this thing
1295
01:04:47,449 --> 01:04:49,652
of this may be the last work
I do. So it's, like,
1296
01:04:49,684 --> 01:04:53,221
trying to focus everything
and channel it into the square,
1297
01:04:53,255 --> 01:04:55,124
or into this photograph,
or into this thing
1298
01:04:55,157 --> 01:04:58,126
that it's all got to go in,
all the anger,
1299
01:04:58,159 --> 01:05:01,029
all the emotions,
all the thoughts.
1300
01:05:01,063 --> 01:05:04,566
I'm working on a series
of sex images
1301
01:05:04,599 --> 01:05:09,004
that take environments
like the sky,
1302
01:05:09,036 --> 01:05:12,106
the ocean, an airplane,
1303
01:05:12,139 --> 01:05:15,344
train movements, a forest,
1304
01:05:15,376 --> 01:05:17,313
and I'll superimpose
1305
01:05:17,346 --> 01:05:22,117
a circle that has
a very explicit sex act.
1306
01:05:22,150 --> 01:05:25,554
And most of them
are homosexual acts.
1307
01:05:31,092 --> 01:05:33,228
Outside of the sex series,
1308
01:05:33,260 --> 01:05:37,699
I placed these circular images
inside the field of painting
1309
01:05:37,733 --> 01:05:40,402
and so for me the circles
are like cells
1310
01:05:40,434 --> 01:05:43,038
and they contain information.
1311
01:05:43,070 --> 01:05:46,741
And I see them
as microscopic views
1312
01:05:46,775 --> 01:05:50,512
so it's like looking
into the interior of something,
1313
01:05:50,545 --> 01:05:55,017
like looking at a spot of blood
and seeing the cells.
1314
01:05:55,050 --> 01:05:57,686
And I also see them
as telescopic views
1315
01:05:57,719 --> 01:05:59,755
so that you could be looking
through a telescope
1316
01:05:59,788 --> 01:06:02,590
and then that says something
to me about surveillance,
1317
01:06:02,623 --> 01:06:04,525
seeing something
from a distance.
1318
01:06:04,559 --> 01:06:07,629
I like the suggestions
of all those things.
1319
01:06:07,661 --> 01:06:10,198
It's about discovery.
1320
01:06:10,231 --> 01:06:12,233
And I use dreams in my work.
1321
01:06:12,266 --> 01:06:13,768
Dreams are very important
to me.
1322
01:06:13,802 --> 01:06:15,570
I usually write them down
all the time.
1323
01:06:15,603 --> 01:06:19,140
The dreams are an example
of how the imagination
1324
01:06:19,173 --> 01:06:21,443
can break all boundaries.
1325
01:06:23,077 --> 01:06:24,679
His iconography is based off
1326
01:06:24,713 --> 01:06:28,083
this profound sense he had
that he could try
1327
01:06:28,115 --> 01:06:30,485
to look at the universe.
1328
01:06:30,518 --> 01:06:34,389
Everything organic,
1329
01:06:34,422 --> 01:06:37,291
and everything manmade,
1330
01:06:37,324 --> 01:06:39,127
all the delights,
and all the horrors,
1331
01:06:39,161 --> 01:06:42,030
and trying to put them
together.
1332
01:06:42,063 --> 01:06:46,335
But every aspect of it
would be deeply personal.
1333
01:06:50,739 --> 01:06:52,273
When Peter died,
1334
01:06:52,306 --> 01:06:54,776
David took photographs
of the head,
1335
01:06:54,809 --> 01:06:56,778
the hands, and the feet.
1336
01:06:56,811 --> 01:07:00,548
There's a tradition
of taking death masks
1337
01:07:00,581 --> 01:07:02,384
of someone important.
1338
01:07:02,416 --> 01:07:04,219
Hands are important
because they're how
1339
01:07:04,251 --> 01:07:06,255
you physically interact
with the world.
1340
01:07:06,288 --> 01:07:09,123
And then the feet,
I think are very important.
1341
01:07:09,157 --> 01:07:11,126
And that goes back
to the Old Testament
1342
01:07:11,159 --> 01:07:12,693
and the New Testament.
1343
01:07:12,726 --> 01:07:14,829
How do you read people,
you watch their hands
1344
01:07:14,862 --> 01:07:17,265
but it's more important
you watch their feet
1345
01:07:17,298 --> 01:07:19,300
because that's what's
anchoring you to the world.
1346
01:07:21,135 --> 01:07:23,072
And you find that
all the way through
1347
01:07:23,105 --> 01:07:25,373
classic spiritual literature.
1348
01:07:25,407 --> 01:07:28,510
That iconic letting out
of those images,
1349
01:07:28,543 --> 01:07:30,612
incorporating them into
Peter Hujar Dead
1350
01:07:30,644 --> 01:07:34,750
with that text
is really a call to arms.
1351
01:07:34,782 --> 01:07:37,118
I was diagnosed with ARC
recently
1352
01:07:37,152 --> 01:07:38,653
and this was after
the last few years
1353
01:07:38,686 --> 01:07:40,688
of losing count of the friends
and neighbors
1354
01:07:40,722 --> 01:07:43,492
who've been dying slow,
vicious, unnecessary deaths
1355
01:07:43,525 --> 01:07:45,327
because fags, and dykes,
and junkies
1356
01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:48,130
are expendable in this country.
And at the moment,
1357
01:07:48,163 --> 01:07:50,833
at the moment
I'm a 37-foot tall,
1358
01:07:50,865 --> 01:07:55,503
1,172-pound man
inside this six-foot body,
1359
01:07:55,536 --> 01:07:57,538
and all I could feel
is the pressure.
1360
01:07:57,572 --> 01:08:00,142
All I can feel is the pressure
and the need for relief.
1361
01:08:00,175 --> 01:08:02,277
David? It's Pat.
1362
01:08:02,309 --> 01:08:04,612
It's been too long
and I want you to know
1363
01:08:04,646 --> 01:08:07,149
that I think of you
and I love you a lot,
1364
01:08:07,181 --> 01:08:09,117
and I hope all is well.
1365
01:08:09,150 --> 01:08:10,685
Last night
I talked to my sister
1366
01:08:10,719 --> 01:08:14,690
for the first time
in seven months I think.
1367
01:08:14,722 --> 01:08:17,592
I told her about my diagnosis
and...
1368
01:08:18,859 --> 01:08:21,362
it was rough for me anyway.
1369
01:08:21,395 --> 01:08:23,465
I thought she handled it
pretty well.
1370
01:08:24,865 --> 01:08:27,569
But then who knows.
1371
01:08:27,601 --> 01:08:29,438
I remember Pat
once saying to me,
1372
01:08:29,470 --> 01:08:32,406
she will never get AIDS
or something like that because,
1373
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:34,342
"I'm not one of those people
that run around
1374
01:08:34,376 --> 01:08:37,246
to have sex with everybody."
1375
01:08:37,279 --> 01:08:39,248
Then I remember
I didn't correct her.
1376
01:08:41,949 --> 01:08:43,751
I mean, how do you begin?
1377
01:08:47,421 --> 01:08:48,523
Dave, you home?
1378
01:08:48,556 --> 01:08:50,126
It's Steve calling again.
1379
01:08:51,259 --> 01:08:52,360
Okay.
1380
01:08:52,394 --> 01:08:54,530
Bye-bye.
1381
01:08:54,563 --> 01:08:57,298
After he had AIDS,
we were fine
1382
01:08:57,332 --> 01:09:00,602
but there came that day
when I called him on the phone
1383
01:09:00,635 --> 01:09:03,472
when I told him our Aunt Helen
was coming to visit.
1384
01:09:03,505 --> 01:09:05,440
Boy, that set him off.
1385
01:09:05,472 --> 01:09:07,775
Look, if it comes up
whether about my girlfriend
1386
01:09:07,809 --> 01:09:09,411
or we have girlfriends,
1387
01:09:09,444 --> 01:09:10,846
I'm gonna tell him
I'm homosexual.
1388
01:09:10,878 --> 01:09:12,247
And if it comes up,
I'll tell him
1389
01:09:12,279 --> 01:09:13,849
that I have this virus.
1390
01:09:13,881 --> 01:09:15,783
If it goes far enough,
I'll fucking confront him
1391
01:09:15,817 --> 01:09:18,287
and ask him why the fuck
they let the psychotic
1392
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:20,488
do this damage to us
all these fucking years
1393
01:09:20,521 --> 01:09:22,757
and-and not do
a fucking thing about it,
1394
01:09:22,791 --> 01:09:25,293
and like talk about their God
and all this other shit
1395
01:09:25,327 --> 01:09:27,262
when they watched this guy,
what he did to us.
1396
01:09:27,295 --> 01:09:29,597
I'm tired of living these lies
with these people
1397
01:09:29,631 --> 01:09:31,400
and I'm tired of hiding
from these people
1398
01:09:31,432 --> 01:09:32,868
because I'm afraid of who I am
1399
01:09:32,900 --> 01:09:35,237
or because I have problems
with who I am.
1400
01:09:35,270 --> 01:09:36,838
And I'm not gonna
go through it anymore.
1401
01:09:36,871 --> 01:09:38,407
"This is not the place,"
I said,
1402
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:40,675
"if you wanna confront
Aunt Helen,
1403
01:09:40,708 --> 01:09:43,278
then go to Detroit
and confront her.
1404
01:09:43,310 --> 01:09:44,813
But you're not coming here."
1405
01:09:44,845 --> 01:09:47,248
He went into a rage
that frightened me.
1406
01:09:47,282 --> 01:09:49,418
Don't insult me
by inviting me to come
1407
01:09:49,451 --> 01:09:50,985
after the relatives leave.
1408
01:09:51,019 --> 01:09:53,588
That's right.
Out of sight, okay?
1409
01:09:53,622 --> 01:09:56,490
Get the fuck out of our sight
until it's comfortable,
1410
01:09:56,524 --> 01:09:58,527
until we can deal with you
sitting here
1411
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,664
with your homosexuality,
with your AIDS.
1412
01:10:02,697 --> 01:10:04,498
Yeah, right, sorry for myself.
1413
01:10:04,532 --> 01:10:06,768
I'm the one
who's fucking dying, asshole.
1414
01:10:06,801 --> 01:10:08,937
I'm the one who's got
to fucking confront things
1415
01:10:08,970 --> 01:10:11,440
before I go,
and that's what I wanna do.
1416
01:10:11,472 --> 01:10:13,742
I wanna clear the fear
out of my head.
1417
01:10:13,774 --> 01:10:16,344
It was so painful to me,
1418
01:10:16,377 --> 01:10:18,546
the way that he and I
interacted.
1419
01:10:18,579 --> 01:10:20,448
If I could do it
all over again,
1420
01:10:20,481 --> 01:10:22,850
I-I'd tried to do it
a little differently.
1421
01:10:22,884 --> 01:10:25,453
So, are you afraid to
tell your children I have AIDS?
1422
01:10:25,487 --> 01:10:27,922
And then he starts
saying, "Oh, your kids know
1423
01:10:27,956 --> 01:10:29,824
that you have a faggot
for a brother?"
1424
01:10:29,858 --> 01:10:31,659
That's not what I said.
I said, "Are you afraid
1425
01:10:31,693 --> 01:10:33,395
to tell your kids I have AIDS?"
1426
01:10:33,427 --> 01:10:35,396
And I said,
"David, they're young."
1427
01:10:35,430 --> 01:10:37,633
One's three years old,
the other one's six.
1428
01:10:37,666 --> 01:10:39,701
It's too messy for me
to be in your fucking life,
1429
01:10:39,734 --> 01:10:41,703
so save it. Save it, Steven.
1430
01:10:41,735 --> 01:10:43,305
I don't need this from you.
1431
01:10:43,337 --> 01:10:44,639
I don't need
this kind of insult.
1432
01:10:44,672 --> 01:10:46,541
I fucking face this every day
1433
01:10:46,573 --> 01:10:49,377
and I don't need it
from "family."
1434
01:10:49,411 --> 01:10:50,746
You understand?
1435
01:10:50,779 --> 01:10:52,714
Well, let the conversation end,
Steve.
1436
01:10:52,747 --> 01:10:54,883
We never see each other again.
Goodbye.
1437
01:10:56,850 --> 01:10:58,686
And then,
I never saw him again.
1438
01:11:04,091 --> 01:11:06,527
I'm just feeling
pretty crazy recently,
1439
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:08,496
lot of anxiety.
1440
01:11:08,529 --> 01:11:11,766
At some point I realize
I was just afraid of dying.
1441
01:11:13,435 --> 01:11:15,604
Throughout all my life
I've tried to maintain
1442
01:11:15,636 --> 01:11:18,606
some kind of complete control
of myself
1443
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:20,475
and where I've come from.
1444
01:11:20,507 --> 01:11:22,043
All the scenes
as a kid hustling
1445
01:11:22,077 --> 01:11:23,612
and all the scenes
in the streets.
1446
01:11:23,645 --> 01:11:25,614
Sometimes I came close
to death,
1447
01:11:25,646 --> 01:11:28,015
and the times
that I nearly starved,
1448
01:11:28,048 --> 01:11:32,019
maybe a need for self-control,
this... to mask,
1449
01:11:32,052 --> 01:11:36,524
this enormous rage that I carry
or may carry
1450
01:11:36,557 --> 01:11:39,027
from all those experiences.
1451
01:11:39,060 --> 01:11:42,030
I guess I fear loss of
control, let that rage,
1452
01:11:42,063 --> 01:11:44,533
It'll spill
and become indiscriminate
1453
01:11:44,565 --> 01:11:46,702
in terms of what it attacks.
1454
01:11:46,734 --> 01:11:50,438
But really and truly I think
I'm afraid of losing my mind
1455
01:11:50,471 --> 01:11:53,541
at some point
to some degenerative disease
1456
01:11:53,574 --> 01:11:57,479
like meningitis, or seizures,
or whatever.
1457
01:11:57,511 --> 01:12:01,716
I don't wanna lose touch
with words.
1458
01:12:01,750 --> 01:12:05,386
I wanna be able to provoke
some change
1459
01:12:05,420 --> 01:12:07,655
in whatever limited fashion
1460
01:12:07,689 --> 01:12:09,891
in people, in a person.
1461
01:12:09,923 --> 01:12:11,726
And I always had this fantasy
1462
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:13,795
that if I were
to ever become ill
1463
01:12:13,828 --> 01:12:17,099
and if I were to become so weak
that I couldn't leave the house
1464
01:12:17,131 --> 01:12:19,634
which is another fear for me,
1465
01:12:19,667 --> 01:12:22,504
or at least be able to tap
at a fucking keyboard
1466
01:12:22,537 --> 01:12:24,740
even if it's with a pencil
held between my teeth
1467
01:12:24,773 --> 01:12:27,641
touching each key
letter for letter,
1468
01:12:27,675 --> 01:12:30,078
despite rage, despite illness,
1469
01:12:30,110 --> 01:12:33,414
despite pain,
I hope that my mind...
1470
01:12:34,948 --> 01:12:36,617
...continues.
1471
01:12:38,619 --> 01:12:40,921
AIDS was revealing exactly
1472
01:12:40,954 --> 01:12:43,591
what society was about.
1473
01:12:43,625 --> 01:12:45,659
That was already there
in his work,
1474
01:12:45,693 --> 01:12:48,130
he knew already
what the world was about.
1475
01:12:48,162 --> 01:12:51,098
He knew the structure
that sustained power.
1476
01:12:51,131 --> 01:12:53,701
He knew in the manipulation
of people
1477
01:12:53,734 --> 01:12:55,737
who would like
to live differently.
1478
01:12:55,770 --> 01:12:57,639
So the illness became a weapon
1479
01:12:57,671 --> 01:13:00,541
against politics
of the society.
1480
01:13:00,574 --> 01:13:02,676
When I was diagnosed
with this virus,
1481
01:13:02,710 --> 01:13:04,813
it didn't take me long
to realize
1482
01:13:04,845 --> 01:13:08,616
I contracted a diseased
society as well.
1483
01:13:08,649 --> 01:13:10,418
Stand tough, stand tall,
1484
01:13:10,452 --> 01:13:12,119
it's time to march
on city hall.
1485
01:13:12,153 --> 01:13:14,122
Thousands
of demonstrators demand
1486
01:13:14,154 --> 01:13:15,923
that New York City
do more to help
1487
01:13:15,957 --> 01:13:17,659
those suffering from AIDS.
1488
01:13:17,692 --> 01:13:20,694
Healthcare is a right.
Healthcare is a right.
1489
01:13:20,728 --> 01:13:23,431
The scene
evoked memories of the '60s.
1490
01:13:23,465 --> 01:13:24,966
Civil rights or civil war?
1491
01:13:24,998 --> 01:13:27,668
David and I
went to Act Up meetings.
1492
01:13:27,702 --> 01:13:29,137
We marched with Act Up.
1493
01:13:29,170 --> 01:13:30,971
The city is dying.
1494
01:13:31,005 --> 01:13:32,574
In some level,
the most interesting thing
1495
01:13:32,606 --> 01:13:34,141
that they have is information
1496
01:13:34,175 --> 01:13:36,478
of what was happening
in the hospitals.
1497
01:13:40,914 --> 01:13:43,118
They were strapping
minority babies to beds
1498
01:13:43,150 --> 01:13:45,921
and giving half of them
placebos.
1499
01:13:45,953 --> 01:13:47,621
Basically,
they're stealing these babies
1500
01:13:47,654 --> 01:13:49,457
from their parents saying,
1501
01:13:49,490 --> 01:13:51,827
"This is the only way
your baby can get treatment.
1502
01:13:51,859 --> 01:13:53,627
Sign this form,"
1503
01:13:53,661 --> 01:13:57,698
killing half of them purposely
with placebos.
1504
01:13:57,731 --> 01:14:00,668
That alone I thought
was so outrageous.
1505
01:14:00,702 --> 01:14:02,170
And all these
information packages
1506
01:14:02,203 --> 01:14:04,473
were given to the media,
I thought,
1507
01:14:04,506 --> 01:14:06,575
"Well, Jesus,
this will change everything."
1508
01:14:06,608 --> 01:14:08,109
I mean, how naive I was.
1509
01:14:08,141 --> 01:14:10,211
Forty something death
per day.
1510
01:14:10,244 --> 01:14:12,079
Where was the help?
1511
01:14:12,113 --> 01:14:17,118
♪ Don't treat me
like a science toy ♪
1512
01:14:17,150 --> 01:14:20,154
We went down to Washington
when Act Up demonstrated
1513
01:14:20,188 --> 01:14:22,824
at the FDA.
1514
01:14:22,856 --> 01:14:25,092
Hundreds
of angry demonstrators
1515
01:14:25,126 --> 01:14:28,030
effectively shut down
the FDA today.
1516
01:14:29,096 --> 01:14:30,898
First in his land.
1517
01:14:37,271 --> 01:14:39,707
Demonstrators say the AIDS
crisis and the anger over it
1518
01:14:39,740 --> 01:14:41,576
continue to grow every day.
1519
01:14:41,609 --> 01:14:43,979
Charging that the government
response to the AIDS disease
1520
01:14:44,011 --> 01:14:45,546
is woefully inadequate,
1521
01:14:45,579 --> 01:14:47,649
they say the demonstrations
will continue.
1522
01:14:47,681 --> 01:14:49,650
Until I die.
1523
01:14:49,684 --> 01:14:51,619
Our group made these tombstones
1524
01:14:51,653 --> 01:14:53,722
and then laid down
like we were dying.
1525
01:14:55,590 --> 01:14:57,225
Fight until we die.
1526
01:14:57,257 --> 01:14:59,728
Behind the barricade.
1527
01:14:59,761 --> 01:15:00,862
Behind the barricade.
1528
01:15:00,895 --> 01:15:02,564
And so they arrested us.
1529
01:15:02,596 --> 01:15:04,733
But it got headlines.
1530
01:15:04,765 --> 01:15:08,002
Photographs of the tombstones
came up many times.
1531
01:15:08,036 --> 01:15:09,637
One, two, three, four.
1532
01:15:09,671 --> 01:15:11,539
Civil rights or civil war.
1533
01:15:11,573 --> 01:15:13,173
David got arrested
a couple more times.
1534
01:15:13,207 --> 01:15:14,809
Civil rights or civil war.
1535
01:15:14,841 --> 01:15:16,176
For my own taste,
I wish they
1536
01:15:16,210 --> 01:15:18,012
would get a little bit
more violent,
1537
01:15:18,046 --> 01:15:20,048
express it a little stronger.
1538
01:15:20,081 --> 01:15:22,751
That was one of the few things
that people will respond to.
1539
01:15:22,783 --> 01:15:24,952
And I'm waking up more and more
from daydreams
1540
01:15:24,985 --> 01:15:28,256
of tipping Amazonian blowdarts
in 'infected blood'
1541
01:15:28,288 --> 01:15:30,024
and spitting them
at the exposed necklines
1542
01:15:30,057 --> 01:15:31,792
of certain politicians.
1543
01:15:31,826 --> 01:15:34,029
I'm not gonna be polite,
and fuck these people
1544
01:15:34,061 --> 01:15:36,030
that want me to be courageous.
1545
01:15:36,064 --> 01:15:38,967
You know, I resent that,
"Oh, how great he was,
1546
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:40,702
how courageous he was."
1547
01:15:40,734 --> 01:15:42,938
All the way up to the end.
1548
01:15:42,970 --> 01:15:46,007
There's no expression in that
other than silence.
1549
01:15:48,710 --> 01:15:51,279
Somebody once said to me
that if you spit
1550
01:15:51,311 --> 01:15:55,317
a piece of gum on the sidewalk,
it's nothing,
1551
01:15:55,350 --> 01:15:57,986
but if ten people
or a hundred people,
1552
01:15:58,019 --> 01:16:00,121
or a thousand people
spit their gum
1553
01:16:00,154 --> 01:16:03,291
onto the same sidewalk
people have to deal with it,
1554
01:16:03,323 --> 01:16:06,594
they become stuck in it
when they walk through it.
1555
01:16:06,627 --> 01:16:09,197
And I see that as part
of a relationship
1556
01:16:09,229 --> 01:16:11,131
with art.
1557
01:16:11,164 --> 01:16:14,802
When people put themselves
on the line in their work,
1558
01:16:14,836 --> 01:16:17,706
whether it's music, writing,
photography, painting,
1559
01:16:17,738 --> 01:16:21,241
or whatever in terms of Culture
with a capital C,
1560
01:16:21,274 --> 01:16:24,278
they apply a tiny amount
of pressure
1561
01:16:24,311 --> 01:16:27,349
against the system of control
1562
01:16:27,381 --> 01:16:30,150
that would willingly jump
into fascism
1563
01:16:30,184 --> 01:16:33,622
if there wasn't enough pressure
on its throat.
1564
01:16:36,990 --> 01:16:39,860
We are born
into a pre-invented existence
1565
01:16:39,894 --> 01:16:42,797
within a tribal nation
of zombies.
1566
01:16:42,829 --> 01:16:45,166
The government
has a day-to-day job,
1567
01:16:45,198 --> 01:16:47,902
maintaining an illusion
of a one-tribe nation.
1568
01:16:47,935 --> 01:16:50,205
And inside
of that one-tribe nation,
1569
01:16:50,238 --> 01:16:52,941
there's actually millions
of tribes.
1570
01:16:52,974 --> 01:16:56,144
Historically, minorities
have always been expendable
1571
01:16:56,176 --> 01:16:57,345
in this country.
1572
01:16:59,046 --> 01:17:01,815
Historically, art was made
1573
01:17:01,849 --> 01:17:03,652
by certain classes of people
1574
01:17:03,685 --> 01:17:06,121
for certain classes
of people.
1575
01:17:06,154 --> 01:17:09,357
What I make in my work
is a record of things
1576
01:17:09,390 --> 01:17:14,128
that challenges the record
that we're given daily,
1577
01:17:14,162 --> 01:17:17,365
whether it's in the newspapers,
through the television,
1578
01:17:17,398 --> 01:17:19,734
or through the politicians.
1579
01:17:19,766 --> 01:17:21,368
I've chosen to stay
and fight.
1580
01:17:21,402 --> 01:17:23,971
I've chosen to stay and fight.
1581
01:17:30,110 --> 01:17:32,380
If I were a violent person,
1582
01:17:32,412 --> 01:17:35,250
I would go
into the nation's capital
1583
01:17:35,283 --> 01:17:38,319
and start annihilating
the people that I believe
1584
01:17:38,351 --> 01:17:41,689
responsible for this
pre-invented existence,
1585
01:17:41,722 --> 01:17:44,393
but the originators
are long dead.
1586
01:17:45,926 --> 01:17:47,461
The way things
are set in motion
1587
01:17:47,494 --> 01:17:49,130
in terms of society,
1588
01:17:49,162 --> 01:17:51,098
it's like a machine
that runs itself
1589
01:17:51,131 --> 01:17:54,435
that can't stop.
It can run by itself,
1590
01:17:54,469 --> 01:17:58,073
think by itself,
police enforce it,
1591
01:17:58,105 --> 01:18:00,074
schools enforce it.
1592
01:18:00,108 --> 01:18:02,210
Government officials
enforce it.
1593
01:18:02,243 --> 01:18:05,747
Even the stupidity
of large populations
1594
01:18:05,779 --> 01:18:08,048
enforce it.
1595
01:18:08,082 --> 01:18:11,153
Raise all the glory
while we do it to them again.
1596
01:18:17,358 --> 01:18:19,260
Cardinal O'Connor
has helped tens of thousands
1597
01:18:19,292 --> 01:18:21,161
of people
to their unnecessary deaths
1598
01:18:21,194 --> 01:18:24,064
through the denial of pertinent
safe sex information.
1599
01:18:24,097 --> 01:18:26,501
He obviously prefers coffins
to condoms.
1600
01:18:26,533 --> 01:18:29,237
- Safe sex information.
- Find out why we're here today.
1601
01:18:29,270 --> 01:18:31,039
This is Jesus Christ.
1602
01:18:31,072 --> 01:18:33,875
I am in front of St. Patrick's
Cathedral on Sunday.
1603
01:18:33,908 --> 01:18:36,377
We're here reporting
on a major AIDS activist
1604
01:18:36,409 --> 01:18:38,947
and abortion rights activist
demonstration.
1605
01:18:38,979 --> 01:18:41,115
Inside, Cardinal O'Connor
1606
01:18:41,149 --> 01:18:43,785
is busy spreading his lies
and rumors
1607
01:18:43,818 --> 01:18:45,954
about the position
of lesbians and gays.
1608
01:18:45,987 --> 01:18:47,422
They act as if...
because there's this
1609
01:18:47,454 --> 01:18:49,189
abstract idea
of what religion is,
1610
01:18:49,222 --> 01:18:50,891
of what God is,
1611
01:18:50,925 --> 01:18:52,827
that this man is untouchable
and he's not.
1612
01:18:52,859 --> 01:18:54,429
And this church
can be shut down
1613
01:18:54,462 --> 01:18:56,464
the same way he shuts down
abortion clinics,
1614
01:18:56,497 --> 01:18:59,300
the same way he prevents people
getting information
1615
01:18:59,332 --> 01:19:01,536
or making personal decisions
about their life,
1616
01:19:01,569 --> 01:19:03,371
he can be shut down.
1617
01:19:05,305 --> 01:19:06,807
Is the green light on?
1618
01:19:06,841 --> 01:19:08,176
Green light's not on
but, uh...
1619
01:19:08,208 --> 01:19:09,877
- Let's see this.
- Yeah.
1620
01:19:09,911 --> 01:19:11,246
- The green light's on.
- Yeah. So it's on.
1621
01:19:11,279 --> 01:19:13,214
- It's rolling?
- Yeah.
1622
01:19:13,247 --> 01:19:15,517
East Germany today
took down the Berlin Wall.
1623
01:19:15,550 --> 01:19:18,286
Back at that time,
David had a big body of work
1624
01:19:18,319 --> 01:19:21,089
and it was really strong stuff
but his career,
1625
01:19:21,122 --> 01:19:23,057
kind of, flattened out.
1626
01:19:23,090 --> 01:19:26,828
The publicity from his
contribution to the catalogue
1627
01:19:26,860 --> 01:19:28,796
for Witnesses:
Against Our Vanishing.
1628
01:19:28,829 --> 01:19:30,899
And Artists Space
was what brought him
1629
01:19:30,931 --> 01:19:32,800
to the national stage,
1630
01:19:32,833 --> 01:19:36,003
and it wasn't for an artwork,
it was for an essay
1631
01:19:36,037 --> 01:19:38,306
that he wrote in the catalogue.
1632
01:19:38,338 --> 01:19:40,041
I...
1633
01:19:40,073 --> 01:19:41,809
I wouldn't say derogatory,
you know,
1634
01:19:41,842 --> 01:19:43,577
I don't think
I'm-I'm being that critical.
1635
01:19:43,610 --> 01:19:46,447
I asked David
to write for the catalogue.
1636
01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:48,215
There aren't such
intense people
1637
01:19:48,248 --> 01:19:50,518
in the world anymore.
But he was a genius
1638
01:19:50,551 --> 01:19:53,988
which I don't use
for anyone else I can think of.
1639
01:19:54,020 --> 01:19:56,423
David's essay
was talking about
1640
01:19:56,457 --> 01:20:00,528
how the imagination
was the last frontier
1641
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:03,230
for creative freedom,
1642
01:20:03,264 --> 01:20:05,533
that in his imagination
1643
01:20:05,565 --> 01:20:08,302
he can douse Jesse Helms
with gasoline
1644
01:20:08,336 --> 01:20:11,840
and set his putrid ass on fire,
I quote,
1645
01:20:11,872 --> 01:20:15,609
or throw William Dannemeyer
off the Empire State Building
1646
01:20:15,643 --> 01:20:18,980
and made a reference
to Cardinal O'Connor,
1647
01:20:19,012 --> 01:20:20,480
total enemy of the state,
1648
01:20:20,514 --> 01:20:24,418
called him that fat cannibal
in skirts
1649
01:20:24,452 --> 01:20:27,155
in the house
of walking swastikas.
1650
01:20:28,355 --> 01:20:31,592
Now, this didn't play well
1651
01:20:31,626 --> 01:20:33,595
with the establishment.
1652
01:20:33,627 --> 01:20:36,130
Tonight, a Manhattan art
exhibit about AIDS
1653
01:20:36,162 --> 01:20:37,898
is losing a lot
of federal money
1654
01:20:37,931 --> 01:20:40,234
because of what
will be shown in the exhibit.
1655
01:20:40,268 --> 01:20:42,203
The chairman of the NEA states,
1656
01:20:42,235 --> 01:20:44,338
"We find that a large portion
of the content
1657
01:20:44,372 --> 01:20:47,075
is political rather than
artistic in nature."
1658
01:20:47,108 --> 01:20:49,543
It's a fact that I maybe
dying of AIDS in 1989.
1659
01:20:49,577 --> 01:20:51,246
Is that not political?
1660
01:20:51,279 --> 01:20:53,147
It's a fact that I don't have
health insurance
1661
01:20:53,180 --> 01:20:55,316
and I don't have access
to adequate healthcare.
1662
01:20:55,349 --> 01:20:58,485
Is that not political?
1663
01:20:58,519 --> 01:21:01,489
And I, you know,
I think that says it clearly.
1664
01:21:01,521 --> 01:21:04,958
This is Washington
and Helms was on a rampage.
1665
01:21:04,992 --> 01:21:07,061
He'd already racked up
Mapplethorpe,
1666
01:21:07,094 --> 01:21:09,264
gotten the Corcoran
to cancel their show.
1667
01:21:09,296 --> 01:21:11,198
He'd already racked up
Piss Christ.
1668
01:21:11,231 --> 01:21:13,100
I mean, this was the time
1669
01:21:13,134 --> 01:21:15,435
and they were looking
for the trifecta,
1670
01:21:15,469 --> 01:21:17,605
the third thing,
and David Wojnarowicz
1671
01:21:17,637 --> 01:21:19,306
was perfect for this.
1672
01:21:19,340 --> 01:21:22,510
This senator is unwilling
to spend one penny.
1673
01:21:22,542 --> 01:21:24,679
I'm saddened to see that, um,
1674
01:21:24,712 --> 01:21:28,116
Congress might not feel
that this show
1675
01:21:28,149 --> 01:21:30,919
should be supported
by the American taxpayer.
1676
01:21:30,952 --> 01:21:33,954
Is this about homophobia
or what is it about?
1677
01:21:33,988 --> 01:21:35,556
I... I'm confused by it.
1678
01:21:35,588 --> 01:21:37,190
What are you thinking about?
1679
01:21:37,224 --> 01:21:39,127
I mean, no. Just that,
uh, you know,
1680
01:21:39,159 --> 01:21:41,395
I'm talking to this
journalist from the Times,
1681
01:21:41,429 --> 01:21:43,463
you know, he said that the NEA
is claiming
1682
01:21:43,497 --> 01:21:45,266
that what I said was horrible,
monstrous,
1683
01:21:45,298 --> 01:21:47,201
you know,
inflammatory, this, that.
1684
01:21:47,234 --> 01:21:49,537
The most terrible things that
they can't even repeat them.
1685
01:21:49,569 --> 01:21:51,972
And I said like, "A study done
on violence
1686
01:21:52,006 --> 01:21:54,676
in America found that
there was increasing numbers
1687
01:21:54,708 --> 01:21:57,010
of homosexual teenagers
that were murdered
1688
01:21:57,043 --> 01:21:58,378
or beaten up.
1689
01:21:58,412 --> 01:22:00,213
And that Dannemeyer
tried to suppress
1690
01:22:00,247 --> 01:22:01,615
that part of the study
1691
01:22:01,649 --> 01:22:03,618
because it contained
the word homosexual.
1692
01:22:03,650 --> 01:22:07,020
Therefore, William Dannemeyer
condones the murder
1693
01:22:07,054 --> 01:22:09,657
and terrorizing
of homosexual teenagers
1694
01:22:09,689 --> 01:22:11,558
and no gesture
I could make could
1695
01:22:11,591 --> 01:22:15,295
even approximate the violence
of what these people have done.
1696
01:22:15,328 --> 01:22:19,299
I'm not gonna sit still
and be silent about it.
1697
01:22:19,332 --> 01:22:21,134
How heroic.
1698
01:22:21,167 --> 01:22:22,670
To the barricades!
1699
01:22:39,052 --> 01:22:40,621
But what's happening now?
1700
01:22:40,654 --> 01:22:42,156
Uh, Susan called up,
1701
01:22:42,189 --> 01:22:43,557
and it turns out that, uh,
1702
01:22:43,591 --> 01:22:45,326
the NEA approached Susan
1703
01:22:45,359 --> 01:22:47,395
and now they're doing
a joint press conference
1704
01:22:47,427 --> 01:22:49,697
issuing statements
and Susan does this paltry
1705
01:22:49,729 --> 01:22:53,033
liberal motherfucking stance
of here,
1706
01:22:53,067 --> 01:22:54,101
"I think there are
certain issues
1707
01:22:54,135 --> 01:22:55,670
that are not resolved here."
1708
01:22:55,703 --> 01:22:57,538
And I said,
"What the fuck are you doing?"
1709
01:22:57,570 --> 01:23:00,675
I said, "These assholes have
themselves against the wall
1710
01:23:00,707 --> 01:23:02,743
over all these issues,
over homophobia,
1711
01:23:02,777 --> 01:23:04,612
legislative silence
of homosexuals
1712
01:23:04,645 --> 01:23:06,481
and lesbians in this country.
1713
01:23:06,514 --> 01:23:08,649
What you're doing is you're
avoiding the whole fucking thing
1714
01:23:08,681 --> 01:23:11,118
for your funding. I said,
"You're a collaborator.
1715
01:23:11,152 --> 01:23:13,221
You and your board
and it's indicative
1716
01:23:13,253 --> 01:23:16,457
of the whole
fucking art world."
1717
01:23:16,489 --> 01:23:18,658
David was more skeptical
1718
01:23:18,692 --> 01:23:20,627
and more negative
about the art world
1719
01:23:20,661 --> 01:23:22,430
than he was about Jesse Helms
1720
01:23:22,462 --> 01:23:24,431
because he thought
that curators of the art world
1721
01:23:24,465 --> 01:23:28,069
hid art with queer ideas
1722
01:23:28,101 --> 01:23:32,206
and just anything that was out
of the White one-tribe nation
1723
01:23:32,238 --> 01:23:34,442
as he said was being censored
by the museums.
1724
01:23:34,475 --> 01:23:37,111
You didn't need Jesse Helms
and people like that
1725
01:23:37,144 --> 01:23:40,614
because the museums were
already doing the job for you.
1726
01:23:40,648 --> 01:23:42,182
Okay, thanks.
1727
01:23:45,653 --> 01:23:46,654
Okay.
1728
01:23:48,255 --> 01:23:49,257
Okay.
1729
01:23:53,359 --> 01:23:54,694
What happened?
1730
01:23:54,728 --> 01:23:56,797
She's fine.
She's, like, uh...
1731
01:23:58,466 --> 01:24:01,469
She said that she could say
in her statement
1732
01:24:01,502 --> 01:24:05,073
that this is a failure
of the government
1733
01:24:05,105 --> 01:24:09,143
to confront homophobia
in the society,
1734
01:24:09,176 --> 01:24:12,447
it's the legislation
into silence of homosexuals.
1735
01:24:12,479 --> 01:24:17,084
And it's the failure to provide
safe sex information
1736
01:24:17,118 --> 01:24:18,419
to people with AIDS so that... uh,
1737
01:24:18,452 --> 01:24:21,389
so they can make
informed decisions.
1738
01:24:22,856 --> 01:24:24,391
Did she say that
to the press?
1739
01:24:24,425 --> 01:24:25,827
This is her statement.
1740
01:24:25,859 --> 01:24:29,830
She's... and that she's gonna
thank me, uh,
1741
01:24:29,863 --> 01:24:31,598
from the bottom of her heart,
1742
01:24:31,631 --> 01:24:34,201
uh, for what she's learned.
1743
01:24:40,407 --> 01:24:43,244
I feel, you know, I feel
pretty emotional about it.
1744
01:24:46,814 --> 01:24:48,349
Oh, man.
1745
01:24:58,158 --> 01:25:00,494
This show does contain
10 years of work
1746
01:25:00,528 --> 01:25:03,664
starting with David's
early street stencil pieces
1747
01:25:03,697 --> 01:25:06,400
to work that was
just made yesterday
1748
01:25:06,432 --> 01:25:07,835
especially for this gallery.
1749
01:25:07,868 --> 01:25:09,403
So without further ado,
1750
01:25:09,435 --> 01:25:11,471
I like to introduce
David Wojnarowicz.
1751
01:25:18,345 --> 01:25:20,780
Thanks a lot for coming tonight.
1752
01:25:20,814 --> 01:25:24,152
I don't think anybody expected
a crowd this big.
1753
01:25:24,185 --> 01:25:25,887
This is kind of strange
and emotional for me
1754
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:27,387
to be standing in a room
1755
01:25:27,421 --> 01:25:29,824
filled with artifacts
of my life.
1756
01:25:29,856 --> 01:25:31,792
Each painting, photograph,
and sculpture
1757
01:25:31,824 --> 01:25:34,494
has built into it
a particular frame of mind
1758
01:25:34,528 --> 01:25:35,796
that only I can know
1759
01:25:35,828 --> 01:25:37,497
given that I've always
felt alien
1760
01:25:37,530 --> 01:25:40,167
in this country
we call America.
1761
01:25:40,201 --> 01:25:43,337
If I say I'm homosexual,
is that something new to you?
1762
01:25:43,369 --> 01:25:45,372
Does that make you nervous?
1763
01:25:45,405 --> 01:25:47,175
Do you think
it would be a crime,
1764
01:25:47,207 --> 01:25:48,742
the denial of information
only killed people
1765
01:25:48,775 --> 01:25:50,411
that you didn't feel
comfortable with?
1766
01:25:50,444 --> 01:25:51,812
Do you stop to get to know
the person
1767
01:25:51,845 --> 01:25:53,581
you sit or walk next to
in this school?
1768
01:25:53,613 --> 01:25:55,348
Do you make it comfortable
for that person
1769
01:25:55,381 --> 01:25:57,751
to express ideas that
might change your ideas?
1770
01:25:57,784 --> 01:25:59,220
And I wake up every morning.
1771
01:25:59,252 --> 01:26:00,621
I wake up every morning
1772
01:26:00,654 --> 01:26:02,557
to this killing machine
called America.
1773
01:26:02,590 --> 01:26:04,824
And I'm carrying this rage
like a blood-filled egg
1774
01:26:04,858 --> 01:26:08,195
as each T cell disappears
from my body
1775
01:26:08,229 --> 01:26:09,963
and is replaced by
10 pounds of pressure,
1776
01:26:09,997 --> 01:26:11,865
10 pounds of rage.
1777
01:26:11,899 --> 01:26:14,468
And I focus that rage
into non-violent resistance
1778
01:26:14,501 --> 01:26:16,369
but the focus
is starting to slip
1779
01:26:16,403 --> 01:26:18,773
and the egg
is starting to crack.
1780
01:26:18,805 --> 01:26:19,773
Thank you.
1781
01:26:21,408 --> 01:26:23,611
David became the local hero
1782
01:26:23,644 --> 01:26:28,349
in a town that needed a voice
like this so badly.
1783
01:26:28,381 --> 01:26:30,217
When I first went out there,
1784
01:26:30,251 --> 01:26:32,420
I knew that it was like
a fairly conservative town.
1785
01:26:32,453 --> 01:26:34,555
I mean, I had fantasies
of people with pitchforks
1786
01:26:34,587 --> 01:26:35,956
storming the gallery.
1787
01:26:37,925 --> 01:26:39,560
In the days that followed,
1788
01:26:39,592 --> 01:26:40,927
people would come running over
to talk to me
1789
01:26:40,961 --> 01:26:42,797
when they spotted me.
1790
01:26:42,829 --> 01:26:46,800
It was an extremely emotional
positive response.
1791
01:26:46,833 --> 01:26:48,402
I should probably tell you
1792
01:26:48,435 --> 01:26:50,705
how the controversy happened
1793
01:26:50,738 --> 01:26:54,275
about a month into the show.
1794
01:26:54,307 --> 01:26:56,676
There was one page in the book.
It was a black and white,
1795
01:26:56,710 --> 01:27:01,515
homage to Jean Genet
who is one of David's heroes.
1796
01:27:01,547 --> 01:27:03,416
I didn't know it was in color.
1797
01:27:03,449 --> 01:27:04,818
He just gave us the black
and white
1798
01:27:04,851 --> 01:27:07,587
when we put it in the book.
1799
01:27:07,621 --> 01:27:10,958
Jean Genet has a plate over his
head that looks like a halo.
1800
01:27:10,990 --> 01:27:13,560
There's angels with Tommy Guns,
1801
01:27:13,594 --> 01:27:15,596
and in the right-hand corner,
1802
01:27:15,628 --> 01:27:18,698
there's a picture
of Jesus Christ
1803
01:27:18,731 --> 01:27:20,835
with a hypodermic in his arm.
1804
01:27:22,935 --> 01:27:24,804
It didn't make
no never mind to me,
1805
01:27:24,837 --> 01:27:27,942
but one of the people
that got a hold of the book
1806
01:27:27,975 --> 01:27:29,377
was Dana Rohrabacher,
1807
01:27:29,409 --> 01:27:30,510
the right wing politician
1808
01:27:30,543 --> 01:27:33,314
from Orange County, California.
1809
01:27:38,752 --> 01:27:42,990
Rohrabacher put together
a screed
1810
01:27:43,023 --> 01:27:46,761
with a Xerox image of Christ
with the injectable
1811
01:27:46,793 --> 01:27:48,595
talking about,
1812
01:27:48,628 --> 01:27:51,532
"Do you know what your NEA
money is going for?
1813
01:27:51,564 --> 01:27:53,933
15,000 went to a show
1814
01:27:53,966 --> 01:27:58,305
that has anal
and oral homosexual sex,
1815
01:27:58,338 --> 01:27:59,739
it's like a circus.
1816
01:27:59,773 --> 01:28:01,976
This exhibition,
Tongues of Flame,
1817
01:28:02,009 --> 01:28:05,979
is an orgy
of degenerate depravity."
1818
01:28:20,860 --> 01:28:23,797
Then I started getting
letters and threats
1819
01:28:23,831 --> 01:28:26,900
from people
to the university saying,
1820
01:28:26,934 --> 01:28:28,668
"We hear you have
this exhibition
1821
01:28:28,702 --> 01:28:32,039
that is morally unacceptable."
1822
01:28:32,072 --> 01:28:34,074
People would come to the show.
1823
01:28:36,944 --> 01:28:39,547
And I'd end up
having contests with them
1824
01:28:39,579 --> 01:28:41,015
about who can quote
the Bible better,
1825
01:28:41,047 --> 01:28:42,849
me or them.
1826
01:28:42,882 --> 01:28:44,385
I'm trying to explain to them
1827
01:28:44,417 --> 01:28:45,952
that Jesus was
the man of sorrows
1828
01:28:45,985 --> 01:28:48,521
and he was here to cleanse us
of our sins.
1829
01:28:48,555 --> 01:28:51,726
And if that meant
taking on the pain of a junky,
1830
01:28:51,759 --> 01:28:53,828
then that's what Christ
would have to do.
1831
01:29:01,868 --> 01:29:03,403
Then all of a sudden,
1832
01:29:03,436 --> 01:29:06,707
I get a copy
of a two-page pamphlet
1833
01:29:06,739 --> 01:29:10,543
that has excerpts
of David's greatest hits
1834
01:29:10,577 --> 01:29:11,945
from Donald Wildmon
1835
01:29:11,979 --> 01:29:15,883
and the American Family
Association.
1836
01:29:15,916 --> 01:29:20,020
Donald Wildmon got Pepsi
to stop using Madonna
1837
01:29:20,052 --> 01:29:23,657
as a spokesperson because
of cones that she was wearing
1838
01:29:23,689 --> 01:29:26,760
and she was being
anti-religious
1839
01:29:26,793 --> 01:29:28,095
and evidently
that had been sent
1840
01:29:28,127 --> 01:29:30,029
to thousands of church-goers
1841
01:29:30,063 --> 01:29:32,733
and any senator or congressman
1842
01:29:32,765 --> 01:29:35,435
who hadn't gotten it
from Rohrabacher.
1843
01:29:35,469 --> 01:29:38,605
I sent that to David
and I said,
1844
01:29:38,639 --> 01:29:40,074
"Look at this."
1845
01:29:40,106 --> 01:29:43,511
And that's when the shit
hit the fan.
1846
01:29:48,081 --> 01:29:50,083
Coming up,
Wojnarowicz explains
1847
01:29:50,117 --> 01:29:52,653
why he's suing a group
that's trying to cut off
1848
01:29:52,685 --> 01:29:54,487
government funding
of the arts.
1849
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:56,823
Donald Wildmon went
through a catalogue,
1850
01:29:56,856 --> 01:29:58,626
went through it
with a pair of scissors.
1851
01:29:58,658 --> 01:30:00,927
He searched out
what he perceived to be
1852
01:30:00,961 --> 01:30:03,431
tiny details of paintings
or photographs
1853
01:30:03,463 --> 01:30:06,132
that involved in the portrayal
of sexual activity.
1854
01:30:06,166 --> 01:30:09,837
Sometimes, using less than two
percent of a single painting.
1855
01:30:09,869 --> 01:30:13,940
He represented these mutilated
fragments as my work.
1856
01:30:13,974 --> 01:30:16,944
This week, Wojnarowicz
took Wildmon to court
1857
01:30:16,976 --> 01:30:18,878
for violating his copyright
1858
01:30:18,912 --> 01:30:22,149
and distorting his work
by taking it out of context.
1859
01:30:22,181 --> 01:30:27,153
What I remember
was the whole courtroom
1860
01:30:27,186 --> 01:30:30,457
completely full of artists
and friends of David,
1861
01:30:30,490 --> 01:30:32,493
and Reverend Wildmon
sitting there
1862
01:30:32,525 --> 01:30:35,061
like he was in hell,
like in his mind
1863
01:30:35,095 --> 01:30:36,864
in the most awful place
1864
01:30:36,896 --> 01:30:38,666
that the Lord
could have possibly put him
1865
01:30:38,698 --> 01:30:41,167
there was... full of sinners
and Sodomites
1866
01:30:41,201 --> 01:30:43,203
and blasphemers all around him.
1867
01:30:43,237 --> 01:30:44,872
And people dressed in black.
1868
01:30:44,904 --> 01:30:45,872
And everyone's
dressed in black
1869
01:30:45,905 --> 01:30:47,541
and he looked tortured.
1870
01:31:01,889 --> 01:31:05,025
This is something
that I argued with David about
1871
01:31:05,057 --> 01:31:07,560
numerous times.
And David was sick.
1872
01:31:07,594 --> 01:31:11,030
I said to him, "You know, you
don't have this time to waste.
1873
01:31:11,064 --> 01:31:13,000
You're not gonna change
their minds.
1874
01:31:13,033 --> 01:31:14,902
They don't have minds.
1875
01:31:14,935 --> 01:31:17,137
The so-called ideas
of these people like Wildmon,
1876
01:31:17,170 --> 01:31:18,838
they're not ideas.
1877
01:31:18,872 --> 01:31:21,242
They are aspects of bigotry.
1878
01:31:21,274 --> 01:31:23,009
There are always people
like this.
1879
01:31:23,042 --> 01:31:24,944
Sometimes they're more powerful
than others."
1880
01:31:24,978 --> 01:31:27,981
That was a moment of power
for those kind of churches
1881
01:31:28,015 --> 01:31:30,684
and those kind of people.
We're in one now, again.
1882
01:31:30,716 --> 01:31:32,719
But in between,
they lost power.
1883
01:31:32,752 --> 01:31:36,523
And in the end, they never have
the power as an artist.
1884
01:31:36,556 --> 01:31:38,692
David Wojnarowicz
is more valuable
1885
01:31:38,725 --> 01:31:40,794
than every one of these
preachers that ever lived
1886
01:31:40,827 --> 01:31:45,266
as a person and as what
he put into the world.
1887
01:31:45,298 --> 01:31:48,034
David was being cast
as that angry young man
1888
01:31:48,068 --> 01:31:50,538
who was just screaming
all the time.
1889
01:31:50,570 --> 01:31:54,007
And people had told him
that he was not a good painter.
1890
01:31:59,579 --> 01:32:01,180
So, he was challenging himself
1891
01:32:01,213 --> 01:32:04,952
to make beautiful paintings
of flowers.
1892
01:32:04,984 --> 01:32:07,787
But within that, of course,
he put his writing.
1893
01:32:07,820 --> 01:32:12,792
And he did it in a way
that melded with the pictures.
1894
01:32:12,826 --> 01:32:14,828
But as you read the works,
1895
01:32:14,860 --> 01:32:16,262
you realized
he was telling stories
1896
01:32:16,296 --> 01:32:19,667
of death and politics.
1897
01:32:19,699 --> 01:32:22,970
I mean, it's just a really sad,
beautiful show.
1898
01:32:25,005 --> 01:32:27,740
I wonder what this
little bug does in the world,
1899
01:32:27,774 --> 01:32:29,644
what his job is.
1900
01:32:31,877 --> 01:32:34,948
And if this little bug dies,
1901
01:32:34,981 --> 01:32:36,850
if the world feels it,
1902
01:32:36,882 --> 01:32:38,652
I mean,
does the Earth feel it?
1903
01:32:38,685 --> 01:32:42,056
Does the world get a little
lighter in the rotation?
1904
01:32:42,088 --> 01:32:43,858
There's another one here.
1905
01:32:45,359 --> 01:32:48,596
So, you think they're married?
1906
01:32:48,628 --> 01:32:51,666
Or are they homosexuals
on vacation?
1907
01:32:54,266 --> 01:32:57,304
David was HIV-positive in '88.
1908
01:32:57,337 --> 01:33:00,341
I went to New York a lot,
a lot of the time,
1909
01:33:00,373 --> 01:33:03,010
to work with him until 1991.
1910
01:33:03,042 --> 01:33:06,947
I mean, for me, he wasn't sick.
1911
01:33:06,979 --> 01:33:10,884
You couldn't see on his face,
on his body he was sick.
1912
01:33:10,917 --> 01:33:13,053
Until the last trip we did,
1913
01:33:13,086 --> 01:33:17,958
there's one moment where I felt
this virus took his mind.
1914
01:33:22,029 --> 01:33:26,266
May 1991, we did
this trip in the Southwest.
1915
01:33:30,170 --> 01:33:32,640
We were in Death Valley driving
1916
01:33:32,672 --> 01:33:34,807
and I said to David,
"Let's stop here.
1917
01:33:34,841 --> 01:33:38,078
I would like to take photos."
1918
01:33:38,110 --> 01:33:40,814
David said, "Look,
I'm not really feeling good.
1919
01:33:40,846 --> 01:33:42,649
I stay in the car. Go on.
1920
01:33:42,682 --> 01:33:44,283
I just want to stay here."
1921
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:51,125
I don't know.
Maybe I left half hour.
1922
01:33:54,094 --> 01:33:55,996
Then I came back to the car
1923
01:33:56,029 --> 01:34:00,668
and David was laying down
with the seat down.
1924
01:34:00,701 --> 01:34:02,670
He was, like...
1925
01:34:02,703 --> 01:34:06,073
white, completely white.
1926
01:34:06,105 --> 01:34:08,742
I said, "David."
And he didn't answer to me.
1927
01:34:08,774 --> 01:34:10,009
He wasn't sleeping.
1928
01:34:10,042 --> 01:34:11,878
His eyes were open.
1929
01:34:11,912 --> 01:34:15,115
And then he looked at me
1930
01:34:15,148 --> 01:34:17,885
and he wasn't there.
1931
01:34:17,917 --> 01:34:21,087
He was somewhere.
I don't know where.
1932
01:34:21,121 --> 01:34:23,090
I started getting scared.
1933
01:34:23,122 --> 01:34:27,960
I touched his face saying,
"David, David, David, David."
1934
01:34:27,993 --> 01:34:31,030
And then he came back slowly
to consciousness
1935
01:34:31,064 --> 01:34:34,101
and then he started laughing
like nothing happened,
1936
01:34:34,134 --> 01:34:38,939
like he was nowhere,
like he has been here.
1937
01:34:38,971 --> 01:34:42,242
That's the moment
I felt that, uh,
1938
01:34:42,274 --> 01:34:45,412
something was shifting
in his mind.
1939
01:34:50,149 --> 01:34:52,819
Actually,
I blanked and I,
1940
01:34:52,853 --> 01:34:55,456
you know,
my memory seems to come and go.
1941
01:34:55,488 --> 01:34:58,157
I... I forget so many things,
uh, these days
1942
01:34:58,190 --> 01:35:00,159
where it just seems
huge blocks of time
1943
01:35:00,193 --> 01:35:01,929
are suddenly gone and then...
1944
01:35:01,962 --> 01:35:04,098
- David.
- ...they come back.
1945
01:35:06,966 --> 01:35:10,304
The same trip David
took his camera and he said,
1946
01:35:10,337 --> 01:35:12,906
"I would like you
to take a photo of me,
1947
01:35:12,939 --> 01:35:16,944
like, if I was buried."
1948
01:35:16,976 --> 01:35:21,081
So, we silently start digging
1949
01:35:21,113 --> 01:35:24,284
and I cover him with sand
and earth.
1950
01:35:29,221 --> 01:35:33,092
I took different photos.
I took photos from behind.
1951
01:35:33,126 --> 01:35:35,429
It was very strong,
very strong.
1952
01:35:48,140 --> 01:35:51,411
And that was the last
trip we did together.
1953
01:35:51,444 --> 01:35:53,213
We never met again.
1954
01:35:53,246 --> 01:35:56,283
We spoke over the phone,
but we never met again.
1955
01:36:06,025 --> 01:36:09,529
I guess it was about
September of '91.
1956
01:36:09,563 --> 01:36:11,864
He called me
in the middle of the night,
1957
01:36:11,898 --> 01:36:13,967
probably around 2:00
in the morning.
1958
01:36:14,000 --> 01:36:16,970
He said that he had a fever
and he was shaking.
1959
01:36:17,002 --> 01:36:18,871
And so, I came over.
1960
01:36:18,904 --> 01:36:20,239
I put him under a quilt
1961
01:36:20,273 --> 01:36:22,275
and he was just
really shivering,
1962
01:36:22,309 --> 01:36:23,877
like, he couldn't stop.
1963
01:36:23,909 --> 01:36:25,144
And that was
the beginning of it.
1964
01:36:25,177 --> 01:36:27,547
That was the start of it.
1965
01:36:27,581 --> 01:36:30,050
From then on,
things started to slowly
1966
01:36:30,082 --> 01:36:32,051
but surely go downhill.
1967
01:36:32,085 --> 01:36:34,822
He was hospitalized
for eight to ten days.
1968
01:36:34,854 --> 01:36:38,057
They did tests,
but then he went home.
1969
01:36:38,091 --> 01:36:39,526
And literally, from then on,
1970
01:36:39,559 --> 01:36:42,162
he was never really much
out of bed.
1971
01:36:42,194 --> 01:36:43,896
Hi, David,
Penny Arcade.
1972
01:36:43,930 --> 01:36:47,067
I have a friend
who's on the board of directors
1973
01:36:47,100 --> 01:36:48,869
for The Museum of Modern Art.
1974
01:36:48,902 --> 01:36:51,371
He's interested in getting
Peter into the museum.
1975
01:36:51,404 --> 01:36:53,106
Call me
so I can talk to you, okay?
1976
01:36:53,139 --> 01:36:55,242
Bye.
1977
01:37:09,989 --> 01:37:12,492
When U2 did a concert
out at the Meadowlands
1978
01:37:12,524 --> 01:37:15,362
in New Jersey,
they sent a limousine for us.
1979
01:37:15,395 --> 01:37:18,265
And before the concert,
we met with them.
1980
01:37:18,297 --> 01:37:20,233
Bono wanted to know
if we wanted to pray with them.
1981
01:37:20,266 --> 01:37:21,902
We said, "No.
I think we'll pass on that.
1982
01:37:21,935 --> 01:37:23,170
Thank you."
1983
01:37:26,206 --> 01:37:27,574
But it was just so special.
1984
01:37:27,606 --> 01:37:29,009
I mean, he was thrilled.
1985
01:37:29,042 --> 01:37:31,511
He was really,
truly thrilled.
1986
01:37:31,543 --> 01:37:33,313
Hi, David. It's Kiki.
1987
01:37:33,345 --> 01:37:35,348
Siobhan says that you went back
in the hospital.
1988
01:37:35,381 --> 01:37:37,049
So, I hope you're okay.
1989
01:37:37,082 --> 01:37:38,885
He was in
and out of Cabrini
1990
01:37:38,918 --> 01:37:40,220
a number of times.
1991
01:37:40,252 --> 01:37:41,889
And after one of them,
he said,
1992
01:37:41,921 --> 01:37:44,924
"I'm never going back again."
1993
01:37:44,957 --> 01:37:47,260
Homecare was established
in that loft
1994
01:37:47,293 --> 01:37:49,896
of the movie theater for him.
1995
01:37:49,930 --> 01:37:51,899
That became a hospital room.
1996
01:37:51,931 --> 01:37:54,333
And most patients
didn't have that at that time.
1997
01:37:54,367 --> 01:37:56,336
David was one
of the first people
1998
01:37:56,368 --> 01:37:58,337
to have that level of homecare.
1999
01:37:58,371 --> 01:38:01,307
And probably that was the force
of his personality
2000
01:38:01,341 --> 01:38:04,177
and Tom's
organizational skills.
2001
01:38:04,210 --> 01:38:06,413
If not for Tom,
that wouldn't have happened.
2002
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:11,018
David? Dave?
2003
01:38:11,051 --> 01:38:12,419
Hello?
2004
01:38:12,452 --> 01:38:14,221
It's Pat.
2005
01:38:14,253 --> 01:38:17,090
I just want to let you know,
I talked to Tom
2006
01:38:17,122 --> 01:38:19,259
and I told him when
I'm coming in.
2007
01:38:19,292 --> 01:38:22,996
I'm worried about you.
I hope...
2008
01:38:23,029 --> 01:38:25,098
I just hope that
you have someone around you
2009
01:38:25,131 --> 01:38:29,101
and, uh, well, I'll talk to you
tomorrow, okay?
2010
01:38:29,135 --> 01:38:32,039
Big kiss. Bye-bye.
2011
01:38:32,072 --> 01:38:34,307
His decline was speeding up.
2012
01:38:34,341 --> 01:38:36,043
Dementia was setting in.
2013
01:38:36,076 --> 01:38:37,577
It was in and out.
2014
01:38:37,609 --> 01:38:39,278
It was getting
more and more difficult
2015
01:38:39,311 --> 01:38:41,180
and he was more and more
tired.
2016
01:38:44,083 --> 01:38:45,952
Things were happening
for David.
2017
01:38:45,985 --> 01:38:48,287
And you could tell David
that MoMA had just bought Fire
2018
01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:49,422
and he was just kind of like,
2019
01:38:49,456 --> 01:38:52,192
"That's wonderful."
2020
01:38:52,225 --> 01:38:54,361
And you could tell him
five minutes later
2021
01:38:54,394 --> 01:38:56,496
and he would not remember.
It was like Groundhog Day,
2022
01:38:56,529 --> 01:38:58,332
you could just absolutely
tell him the same thing over.
2023
01:38:58,364 --> 01:39:00,500
And he had absolute happiness.
2024
01:39:02,469 --> 01:39:05,137
It was a very beautiful
wide-eyed David.
2025
01:39:05,171 --> 01:39:06,539
It wasn't like it wasn't him.
2026
01:39:06,573 --> 01:39:08,041
But he was joyous.
2027
01:39:10,275 --> 01:39:12,278
Dr. Bob said,
"A real person comes out
2028
01:39:12,311 --> 01:39:14,081
when they get into dementia.
2029
01:39:14,113 --> 01:39:15,982
If they're nasty at core,
they'll be nasty."
2030
01:39:16,015 --> 01:39:19,719
But David was as sweet
as he could be.
2031
01:39:19,752 --> 01:39:22,021
It was heartbreaking for me.
2032
01:39:22,055 --> 01:39:23,990
He didn't think anybody
would stick around
2033
01:39:24,024 --> 01:39:25,425
if he got sick
or he was dying.
2034
01:39:25,457 --> 01:39:27,493
He was very much afraid
of that
2035
01:39:27,527 --> 01:39:30,697
and I think as a result of how
badly he was treated as a kid.
2036
01:39:30,729 --> 01:39:33,099
You know, there was
a tremendous sadness and fear
2037
01:39:33,132 --> 01:39:34,701
for me worrying about him
2038
01:39:34,734 --> 01:39:38,005
and knowing he was just
getting worse and worse.
2039
01:39:38,037 --> 01:39:40,172
But at the same time,
I felt grateful
2040
01:39:40,206 --> 01:39:42,275
that I could be there for him.
2041
01:39:45,145 --> 01:39:47,214
Looking out the windows,
I can place myself
2042
01:39:47,247 --> 01:39:49,383
somewhere out in that sky,
2043
01:39:49,416 --> 01:39:51,083
lie down in that texture
2044
01:39:51,117 --> 01:39:55,188
and dream of years
and years of sleep.
2045
01:39:55,220 --> 01:39:57,690
And I... and I talk.
2046
01:39:57,724 --> 01:39:59,525
And I talk inside
my head of change
2047
01:39:59,559 --> 01:40:02,096
and of peace for this body
beside me.
2048
01:40:06,399 --> 01:40:08,635
Smell the flowers
while you can.
2049
01:40:13,305 --> 01:40:17,076
July 22nd,
he died at the apartment.
2050
01:40:17,109 --> 01:40:20,046
And there were like
12 of us there,
2051
01:40:20,079 --> 01:40:22,716
all of his friends,
his sister.
2052
01:40:22,748 --> 01:40:26,153
The nurse said to Tom,
"I think he's gone."
2053
01:40:26,185 --> 01:40:28,721
And, um...
2054
01:40:28,755 --> 01:40:31,391
that was it.
2055
01:40:34,793 --> 01:40:38,064
It's no one thing
that took David's life,
2056
01:40:38,097 --> 01:40:39,533
it was the burden of carrying
2057
01:40:39,565 --> 01:40:42,501
all those illnesses
in that one body
2058
01:40:42,534 --> 01:40:45,439
that was just too much
for one body to bear.
2059
01:40:52,444 --> 01:40:54,180
There were a lot of tears
during that time.
2060
01:40:54,213 --> 01:40:56,182
There were a lot of tears then.
2061
01:40:56,216 --> 01:40:58,618
But I've gained a great deal
of distance now, of course.
2062
01:40:58,650 --> 01:41:01,253
And you know, in some ways,
it's even hard to remember him
2063
01:41:01,287 --> 01:41:03,256
which I don't like.
2064
01:41:03,288 --> 01:41:05,826
It's what time does to you.
2065
01:41:05,859 --> 01:41:07,394
But he's always here.
2066
01:41:07,426 --> 01:41:09,628
You know, he's always here
no matter what.
2067
01:41:09,662 --> 01:41:11,164
I know he's here.
2068
01:41:48,868 --> 01:41:52,305
Oh, my God. Here we are.
2069
01:41:52,337 --> 01:41:55,774
I said I wasn't going to cry
and I'm already tearing up.
2070
01:41:55,807 --> 01:41:58,377
It has been so long coming.
2071
01:42:02,347 --> 01:42:03,583
Here it is.
2072
01:42:06,519 --> 01:42:08,188
It's a little overwhelming,
isn't it?
2073
01:42:08,220 --> 01:42:09,455
Wow.
2074
01:42:11,256 --> 01:42:13,425
Look at all of this.
2075
01:42:13,458 --> 01:42:15,228
All the Peter Hujar
dreaming photos.
2076
01:42:15,261 --> 01:42:16,863
- Yeah.
- Peter was quite
2077
01:42:16,895 --> 01:42:19,599
an extraordinary character
and they were so connected.
2078
01:42:19,631 --> 01:42:20,666
Yeah.
2079
01:42:20,699 --> 01:42:21,934
Anita, there's your monkey.
2080
01:42:21,967 --> 01:42:23,302
There's your monkey, sweetie.
2081
01:42:23,336 --> 01:42:25,338
Oh. Yes, it is.
2082
01:42:25,371 --> 01:42:27,274
David painted it for Peter.
2083
01:42:27,306 --> 01:42:29,208
And it was over his bed
while he was sick.
2084
01:42:29,242 --> 01:42:30,543
- Yes.
- And when he died,
2085
01:42:30,577 --> 01:42:32,244
they... he gave it to Anita.
2086
01:42:32,278 --> 01:42:34,213
- Kept it for 20 years.
- Yeah.
2087
01:42:34,247 --> 01:42:37,517
And I'm so sorry
I needed to sell it.
2088
01:42:37,550 --> 01:42:39,853
If I could buy it back
from that woman, I would.
2089
01:42:39,886 --> 01:42:42,689
Peter would always say
that the monkey was carrying
2090
01:42:42,721 --> 01:42:44,890
the weight of the world
on his shoulders
2091
01:42:44,923 --> 01:42:47,927
the way David did it.
2092
01:42:47,961 --> 01:42:49,729
This has always
been a favorite.
2093
01:42:49,761 --> 01:42:50,963
When I first saw it,
2094
01:42:50,997 --> 01:42:53,365
it really kind of
moved me a lot.
2095
01:42:53,399 --> 01:42:55,735
At that point,
David was not feeling very well
2096
01:42:55,768 --> 01:42:59,372
and I just kept thinking
of extinction and Wojnarowicz.
2097
01:42:59,404 --> 01:43:01,373
He's so clever.
He really was.
2098
01:43:01,407 --> 01:43:04,511
He had such a great
childish imagination.
2099
01:43:07,579 --> 01:43:10,649
Imagination is the key
to breaking through
2100
01:43:10,682 --> 01:43:12,652
the borders of countries.
2101
01:43:12,685 --> 01:43:17,324
We can break through existing
structures of government.
2102
01:43:17,356 --> 01:43:20,894
The work that anybody
does as an artist,
2103
01:43:20,926 --> 01:43:23,596
if it doesn't
reflect resistance
2104
01:43:23,630 --> 01:43:25,332
then they're helping
2105
01:43:25,364 --> 01:43:28,768
a system of control
become more perfect.
2106
01:43:28,801 --> 01:43:31,771
We rise to greet
the state,
2107
01:43:31,804 --> 01:43:34,407
to confront the state.
2108
01:43:41,514 --> 01:43:45,719
♪ And you thought
I was just no strength ♪
2109
01:43:45,752 --> 01:43:49,022
♪ You thought
I was just photos ♪
2110
01:43:49,055 --> 01:43:52,659
♪ You thought I was just
words and pictures ♪
2111
01:43:52,692 --> 01:43:55,362
♪ You've seen a thousand times ♪
2112
01:44:03,336 --> 01:44:05,305
♪ Lies they tell us,
lies they live ♪
2113
01:44:05,337 --> 01:44:07,439
♪ What is it
that lies can give? ♪
2114
01:44:07,472 --> 01:44:09,708
♪ Peace or hatred,
love or fear? ♪
2115
01:44:09,742 --> 01:44:11,444
♪ Who will lie
the most this year? ♪
2116
01:44:11,476 --> 01:44:13,512
♪ Lies they tell us,
lies they live ♪
2117
01:44:13,546 --> 01:44:15,448
♪ What is it that lies
can give? ♪
2118
01:44:15,480 --> 01:44:17,684
♪ Peace or hatred,
love or fear? ♪
2119
01:44:17,716 --> 01:44:21,621
♪ Who will lie the most
this year? ♪
2120
01:44:21,654 --> 01:44:24,658
This is Hujar
at noon on Sunday,
2121
01:44:24,690 --> 01:44:26,292
you wanna hear some Italian?
2122
01:44:26,326 --> 01:44:27,293
Listen.
2123
01:44:30,829 --> 01:44:32,465
Did you like that?
2124
01:44:32,497 --> 01:44:33,932
Oh, she's been imitating
an American.
2125
01:44:33,966 --> 01:44:36,603
How about that?
Anyway, goodbye.
2126
01:44:40,506 --> 01:44:42,342
See you later, gator.
2127
01:44:47,613 --> 01:44:49,916
♪ ...your heart ♪
2128
01:44:53,675 --> 01:44:58,675
Provided by explosiveskull
https://twitter.com/kaboomskull
2128
01:44:59,305 --> 01:45:59,422
Advertise your product or brand here
contact www.OpenSubtitles.org today
178904
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.