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Hi, um, I'm here to see Chuck Palmer.
Hannah Horvath.
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- 4-B.
- Thanks.
3
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- Hi.
- Hi. I'm Hannah...
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Hannah... Hannah.
Yeah, I know. It's, uh, nice to meet you.
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Shoes-off household?
6
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Uh, yes. Sorry, I'm... I'm that asshole now.
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I mean, I have my, uh, special slippers,
8
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but, uh, these are just for me.
9
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Um, if you could put them in the same line
as the others, that'd be great.
10
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- Of course, yeah.
- Yeah.
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I'm... I'm sorry, if they could...
If they could not touch the suede boots...
12
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It's just a whole thing.
13
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Thank you.
14
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Are you sure I can't take your bag?
15
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No, I'm good. Thanks.
16
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How about your red tote bag?
17
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I'll hold onto this too.
I'm not planning to stay so long.
18
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Sure. Fine, yeah. Here, sit.
19
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It was, um...
20
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It's good of you to show.
21
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Well, I wasn't going to not show,
I was just surprised.
22
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Surprised what, that I wanted to talk?
23
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Yeah, I just... Surprised that
you found the article that I wrote.
24
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I mean, you must have an ass-deep
Google alert on yourself.
25
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This was like a niche feminist website,
it's not the front page of the Times.
26
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:04,759
Well, let's just say
I'm hypervigilant these days.
27
00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,516
Look, I'm not trying to get
an apology out of you.
28
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- Okay, good.
- Okay, good.
29
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I'm just looking to give my side of the story.
30
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Okay, but first there's something
that I'd like to say.
31
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Oh, sure, uh, go right ahead, Hannah.
32
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I'm a writer, you know, and I may not be
a rich writer or a famous writer
33
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or a writer with a picture of myself
hanging out with Toni Morrison...
34
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- Good catch.
- Well, you put it right in my face, so.
35
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Yeah, yeah, I did.
36
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But I am a writer,
and as such, I think I'm obligated
37
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to use my voice to talk about things
that are meaningful to me,
38
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,269
and I read something about you
that troubled me,
39
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that troubled me greatly, namely that you
were using your power and your influence
40
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to involve yourself sexually
with college students on your book tour.
41
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And whether all those sexual encounters
were consensual or not, or how...
42
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Okay, hold up. Because that's
where this all gets pretty fucking messy,
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when words like consensual
are thrown around.
44
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That's why I'm not sleeping.
45
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That... That is definitely
why I've lost 20 pounds.
46
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Well, that sounds lucky,
I would love that.
47
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,160
Look, Hannah, you're clearly very bright,
48
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:12,959
I could tell that from
the first sentence you wrote.
49
00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,839
Uh, thank you, you printed out a blog?
50
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:17,832
No, I have assistants who can do that for me.
51
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,556
"If one more male writer I love reveals himself
to be a heinous sleazebag,
52
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,673
"I'm going to do a bunch of murders,
create a new isle of Lesbos,
53
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,353
"and never look back."
54
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,272
You're funny, that's a funny sentence.
55
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Thank you.
56
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:34,515
But you should be using your funny
to tackle subjects that matter.
57
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,112
Me, who I may or may not have got a blowjob
from consensually in a college town,
58
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does not fucking matter.
59
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,000
But the thing is, is that it does.
60
00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,874
Because if one of those girls was saying
she didn't want to give the blowjob...
61
00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:49,032
By the way, how exactly does one give
a non-consensual blowjob?
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A non-consensual blowjob,
it would be very choky.
63
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:53,830
It...
64
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It would involve somebody sort of holding
someone else's head down
65
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and kind of, you know, maybe holding them
by the hair, by the pigtails.
66
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,831
You've heard that old joke,
"What do you call a blowjob with handlebar?"
67
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:07,670
Just...
68
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,559
I'm sorry, I have to get this.
It's, uh... It's family stuff.
69
00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:13,510
Yeah, of course.
70
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:14,590
Hi, Mayaan.
71
00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,436
No, if Miranda wants to come over
for the weekend, it's fine.
72
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:19,590
Yeah. She feeling better?
73
00:05:22,840 --> 00:05:27,551
No, no, I don't have her gymnastics bag.
Ask Graciela, 'cause sometimes it's in her car.
74
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,233
Well, I'm not gonna let her sit here
and eat fucking Flamin' Hot Cheetos
75
00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,398
and play Candy Crush or whatever.
She's going to need to walk,
76
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,711
you know, go to a park, whatever.
She's depressed.
77
00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:41,799
Yes, I mean clinically.
78
00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:45,152
I'm not calling you a bad mother.
79
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,792
Mayaan, I'm not, I'm not.
80
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,596
You know, would this be a good time
to just talk about summer, uh, custody?
81
00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,195
Because I would love to bring her
to the Cape, um,
82
00:05:56,280 --> 00:05:59,079
for three weeks, maybe after
the European residency, you know.
83
00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:01,993
I also don't want to feel like
you're not getting your time.
84
00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:04,720
Yeah, go grab your calendar.
85
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,120
No, I asked you, Mayaan, I 100% asked you,
'cause I always goddamn ask you.
86
00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,919
Mayaan, I'm not going to tell you
when you can see your daughter.
87
00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:45,480
I'm going to tell you
when I want to see your daughter
88
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and then we'll take it from there,
and being the mother, no doubt you'll win,
89
00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:50,273
rest assured you'll win.
90
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No, no, it's not a swipe at you, it's not.
91
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I know, I know, I'm sorry.
92
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I'm sorry, honey.
93
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Yes, of course, I'll see her at 3:00.
Yep, okay, bye.
94
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,320
So I'm assuming that was Toni Morrison.
95
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That's funny. No, it's my ex.
96
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Very tortured woman.
97
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But, our daughter's a good girl,
98
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so you know, I have to believe that this life,
this mother is teaching her something.
99
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You know, building her up strong,
100
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because, uh, she's had
some depression stuff this year,
101
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and it got kind of serious,
but, um, she's good.
102
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,717
- Listen, I don't know you...
- No, Hannah, you do not.
103
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But your work means a lot to me.
104
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It has for a long time.
105
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It's made me laugh, and it's comforted me
106
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,551
and my copy of Shannon's Rock
is so dog-eared and underlined
107
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:52,000
you can barely read the words anymore,
108
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,952
so when I saw Denise's Tumblr, I was...
109
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,430
Isn't that the crazy part about all of this?
110
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Like, about being alive right now,
that so much of your life,
111
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,439
your world can be destroyed by something
called Tumblr, without an E.
112
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,231
I mean, destroyed seems like
a little bit of an overstatement.
113
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:09,913
You got a great review in the Times
four days ago.
114
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,913
That was a rave,
you've got this apartment, you're...
115
00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:14,030
Yeah, I'm fine.
116
00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:15,196
Yeah, I would say so.
117
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The thing is I'm not.
118
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Because I've been taking pills to fall asleep
and guess what, they don't fucking work.
119
00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,271
I've started therapy again,
for the first time in 10 years.
120
00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,317
Thought I was done with all that shit.
121
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Tried everything,
different types of meditation,
122
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,034
I've... I tried to learn Spanish,
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rowing, you know, I went on a juice cleanse,
did a silent retreat.
124
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I am now having nightmares
that my daughter's friends will google
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and find out about whatever the fuck
this thing is, and that will hurt her.
126
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Understand? It will hurt my daughter,
so what I wonder is why am I being punished?
127
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I wasn't trying to punish you,
128
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I just think it's important to listen
to the voices of women
129
00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,431
who have historically been pushed
to the side and silenced and...
130
00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,477
Do you know the woman
who wrote the article?
131
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Do you know any of the women
who came forward?
132
00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:04,039
Are you some kind of activist?
133
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:05,992
No, I don't even recycle.
134
00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:07,793
Then why would a smart woman like you
135
00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,317
write a very long and considered piece
of writing on what is ultimately hearsay?
136
00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,552
Because I don't consider the accounts
of four different women hearsay.
137
00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,393
Really? You remember
what happened at Salem.
138
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,153
Yeah, these four women are the witches.
139
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I'm the witch.
140
00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:20,954
I don't see it that way.
141
00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:22,600
These women don't have the reach
that you have,
142
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they can't get the New York Times
to hand them over the op-ed page.
143
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That's why the Internet is so cool,
144
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because it takes all the voices
that have been marginalized and...
145
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,038
Oh, my God!
Is that why the Internet is so cool?
146
00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:34,632
Because some might argue
it's a monster we've created
147
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that will ultimately kill us.
148
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,518
Yeah, well, the people who argue that
are probably a generation above me, but...
149
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:41,355
Fuck, I need a cup of coffee.
150
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,675
I'm not perfect, but I'm not saying I'm perfect.
151
00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,997
I'm a horny motherfucker
with the impulse control of a toddler.
152
00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:59,360
Oh, that must be hard.
153
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,035
Listen, I get it, there are kids dying in Africa,
blah-blah-blah, okay.
154
00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:03,435
But this is fucking hard for me.
155
00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:05,440
I fucked around on my wife,
156
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,432
I've told women I've loved them,
didn't even call them back.
157
00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,955
I even went to a couple of hookers,
and one of them had a dick.
158
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,156
I don't have any secrets.
159
00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:12,830
None of that's illegal.
160
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,794
I mean, except the prostitutes,
that's technically a felony, but...
161
00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:21,512
I have never fucking forced anyone
to blow me, that is not my style.
162
00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,994
These Tumblr girls, who come up to me,
at my lectures,
163
00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,032
and I am sorry, they hurl themselves at me,
164
00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,760
like I'm some fire and brimstone preacher
165
00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,560
who's going to cure their mom's bum leg
with a touch of God.
166
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,391
I invite them back to my hotel.
We may drink teeny-tiny bottles of booze,
167
00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,035
if the place is nice enough
to have a fucking minibar.
168
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:44,790
A couple of them might stay, and then voil�,
169
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,600
they have something to write about,
because what do writers need?
170
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:48,756
Money.
171
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,236
Very funny. Stories, they need stories.
172
00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:52,396
So one of them starts talking,
173
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,473
"I met Chuck Palmer.
He's a sad man with a receding hairline."
174
00:10:55,560 --> 00:10:57,517
"He made sad noises
while I sucked him off,"
175
00:10:57,560 --> 00:11:00,075
and all of a sudden,
she has something to write about.
176
00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:02,916
She has a story, she has an experience, okay,
177
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,192
she has something that makes her different
from every other creative writing undergrad
178
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:07,833
that was bussed in from Virginia.
179
00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,393
Do you understand what I'm saying
about experience,
180
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,517
the way people crave it
and the way people use it?
181
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:13,954
Yeah, I think I do. But...
182
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,394
Denise, the one who started all this.
183
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,433
She practically ripped at my Dockers.
184
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,234
Kept asking if she could come
visit me in New York.
185
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:25,877
I probably nodded, probably indicated yes.
I didn't follow up.
186
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:28,513
That made her angry.
187
00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,991
So you expect me to believe that every one
of these girls came forward with the story
188
00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,390
just because they had hurt feelings?
189
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,114
You clearly haven't met my ex.
190
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:37,230
I feel like I have.
191
00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:40,717
That conversation was very long and pretty
weird thing to do in front of a stranger.
192
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,271
By the way, if you're so sure you're innocent,
193
00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:47,918
if you know that you're this like perfect
specimen, then why can't you just let it go?
194
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,430
Did you just say why can't I just let it go?
195
00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:51,710
Yeah.
196
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:55,193
That's really great advice. Are you Buddhist?
197
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:57,919
Why do you need me to know all this?
198
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,269
Plenty of people wrote about Denise's story.
199
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,312
Did you call all of them to come
to your apartment?
200
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:04,919
Which by the way, is lovely.
201
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:07,316
I had no idea novelists could make
this much money.
202
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:09,916
No, I didn't call them. I didn't call any of them.
I only called you.
203
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,471
Why me?
204
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,153
'Cause you're smart.
205
00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,995
You write well, you write sharply,
like you're actually paying attention.
206
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:22,315
You even made me believe
what you were saying,
207
00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:23,476
and I'm the one you're fucking lying about.
208
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,270
So, are you really gonna use all this skill
to write for some shitty website,
209
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,677
being paid a meaningless fee to slam
some guy you've never met,
210
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:33,710
but claim to respect?
211
00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:36,910
If not me, who, and if not now, when?
212
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,152
Oh, my God.
This isn't the Civil Rights Movement, Hannah.
213
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:42,471
It's me. It's just me.
214
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,599
Getting head in some sterile hotel room
in Rhode Island.
215
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,440
So the larger significance is just lost on you?
You just don't even...
216
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,672
What larger significance?
217
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,153
The power imbalance.
218
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:54,190
Oh, my God.
219
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,199
You know what,
I haven't been offered a beverage,
220
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:57,754
so I think I'm going to get myself one.
221
00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:02,829
The part where she looks like
a Victoria's Secret model,
222
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,709
and I didn't lose my virginity until I was 25
and I was on Accutane,
223
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,200
that part's not lost on me.
224
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,552
Uh, no, I'm talking about the part
where you're a very fucking famous writer
225
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,350
and she's working really hard to have just
a little bit of what you get every day.
226
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,680
So you invite her back to your hotel room,
what's she supposed to say? No?
227
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:23,390
She admires you.
228
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:25,753
Then you unbuckle your pants.
229
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,160
What's she going to do next?
230
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,435
You got it wrong. It's not so she has a story,
231
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,551
it's so she feels like she exists.
232
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,277
And by the way, people don't talk about
this shit for fun,
233
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:41,874
it ruins their lives, you know that.
234
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,633
Do you hear yourself right now?
235
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:44,876
Mmm-hmm.
236
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:49,756
I am a grown man inviting a grown woman
to my hotel room.
237
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,918
Did I put a gun to her head?
Did I offer her a job?
238
00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:56,280
I may be stupid, but I'm not evil, sister.
239
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,677
An invitation isn't inherently wrong
or dangerous.
240
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,832
Sexuality is very muddy,
that's a real gray area.
241
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,355
Or at least we say it's a gray area,
so we can get...
242
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,477
I am so sick of gray areas.
243
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,717
When I was in fifth grade,
I had this English teacher, Mr. Lasky,
244
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,912
he liked me, he was impressed with me.
I did like special creative writing.
245
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,196
I wrote like a little novel or whatever.
246
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,590
Sometimes when he was talking to the class
he'd stand behind me,
247
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:27,319
and he'd just like rub my neck.
248
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,074
Sometimes he'd like rub my head,
rustle my hair.
249
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,110
And I didn't mind.
250
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,195
It made me feel special.
251
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,000
It made me feel like someone saw me
and they knew that I was going to grow up
252
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,470
and be really, really particular.
253
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,759
It also made kids hate me
and put lasagna in my fucking backpack,
254
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,519
but that's a different story.
255
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,957
Anyway, last year, I'm at this like, whatever,
warehouse party in Bushwick
256
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:49,440
and this dude comes up to me and he's like,
257
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,949
"Horvath. We went to middle school together.
East Lansing,"
258
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,437
and I'm like, "Oh, my God,
remember how crazy Mr. Lasky's class was?
259
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,039
"He was basically trying to molest me."
260
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,110
You know what this kid said?
261
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,232
He looks at me in the middle
of this fucking party,
262
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,953
like he's a judge and he goes,
"That's a very serious accusation, Hannah."
263
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:06,990
And he walked away.
264
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,994
And there I am, and I'm just 11 again,
265
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:16,951
and I'm just getting my fucking neck rubbed
because that stuff never goes away.
266
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:21,709
Yeah, I'm sorry that happened to you.
267
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,358
I mean, it gives me a greater perspective
on what triggered you,
268
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,518
to use the parlance of our times,
about my story.
269
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,433
I didn't tell you so you'd feel sorry for me.
270
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,672
No, I'm just saying,
I'm sorry 'cause it's an awful story.
271
00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,912
Yeah, but look at me, I'm smart. And amazing.
272
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:41,510
And now I have a story.
273
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,794
Can I read something to you?
274
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,512
"Jessica had
the straining body of someone
275
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,270
"who'd very recently worked far too hard
to lose a negligible amount of weight.
276
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:00,350
"She was thin,
277
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,911
"had always been thin enough
to get by with low breasts and a tan clavicle.
278
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,879
"But it was as if her form wasn't yet used
to its socially imbued power.
279
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,159
"She moved slowly, awkwardly,
as if life was a china shop and she a bull.
280
00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,272
"She treated my hotel room like a museum,
281
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:15,636
"the minibar like fine sculpture
from the Ming Dynasty,
282
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,394
"delicately pouring herself
some vodka over ice.
283
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,517
"I asked her where she was from
and she said 'around,'
284
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,029
"as if someone had told her
that's what made women irresistible.
285
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,595
"Being from nowhere,
and standing for nothing."
286
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:27,590
Why don't you read?
287
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,513
- I'm okay listening. I mean...
- No. Uh, read it aloud to me.
288
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,759
"I tried to ask her questions,
289
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,958
"about what she was reading,
watching, thinking,
290
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,794
"about her home town
and her poetry workshop.
291
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:46,280
"About her mother and her roommate
292
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,996
"and the silvery scar sneaking quietly
across her forearm,
293
00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,313
"but she was silent, reticent, almost angry
when I pushed too hard.
294
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,074
"'Sit on the bed,' she told me
when she finally spoke.
295
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,795
"'Sit on the bed,
and stop asking me anything.'
296
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,669
"And so I did as I was told,
and she reached for my old belt,
297
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,116
"frayed from being the only one in rotation,
298
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,999
"and as she unbuckled it,
I thought sadly of my sister,
299
00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:13,313
"my daughter, even my mother,
and the times they had resisted being known,
300
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,915
"guessing instead that the man
they were standing across from
301
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,794
"wanted something or someone else entirely."
302
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:21,832
Is this fiction?
303
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,070
Is anything fiction?
304
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,954
No, I don't mean it like a Cheshire cat
kind of riddle.
305
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,119
I mean, like, did you change the names
and identifying details. Like, is this fiction?
306
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:31,190
I did change the names.
307
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:36,111
But this is what I wrote about Denise before
she published her fucking Tumblr article.
308
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,830
Before a website called The Awl
called me "throat piercer."
309
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:42,796
This is what I wrote about Denise
before she told the world
310
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,793
that I was a menace and a sleaze and a fraud.
311
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,315
She doesn't think you're a fraud,
she clearly respects you a lot.
312
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,153
Okay, this is what I saw
and this is what I wrote.
313
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:53,956
I saw a woman who was lovely,
lonely and scared.
314
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,469
I saw a woman
who didn't want to let anyone in.
315
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,280
And I see now, in myself,
316
00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,994
every fucking guy who didn't care enough
to push a little further.
317
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,999
Hannah, that is what I am guilty of.
318
00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,319
Not pushing hard enough to get to know
Denise, to get to the heart of her story.
319
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:12,230
Do you get that?
320
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:14,150
Yeah.
321
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:19,557
Do you want to know why I think
I really wanted to meet you?
322
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,236
- Yeah, I do want to know.
- To fix that.
323
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,520
I mean, it's spoiled with Denise, I know it is,
324
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,991
but I can ask you where you're from,
what you want, who you are.
325
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,078
I can... I can show you're more to me
than just a pretty face.
326
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:38,150
So?
327
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,034
Where are you from?
328
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:45,550
I'm from Michigan.
329
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:46,676
Really, which part?
330
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,280
I love Traverse City, chocolate-covered cherry
capital of the world.
331
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:52,080
I ate so much on my book tour once,
I had to stick my fingers down my throat.
332
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:53,150
Yeah. Really?
333
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,318
Yeah, no. I'm not opposed to a little
casual bulimia from time to time.
334
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:57,629
Who isn't?
335
00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:58,756
Well, it takes a toll on the enamel.
336
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,880
Um, no, I'm from East Lansing.
It's not really that close.
337
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,030
Right.
338
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,715
And what are your dreams
for the next five years?
339
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,357
Sorry to sound like
a People magazine interview.
340
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,511
No, it's okay, it's a good question.
I want to write.
341
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,235
I want to write stories
that make people feel less alone than I did.
342
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,398
I want to make people laugh
about the things in life that are painful.
343
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:24,630
That's what I want to do.
344
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:28,190
Good goal.
345
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:29,956
That's a really good goal.
346
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:31,076
So maybe one day you'll be famous.
347
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:32,476
Maybe.
348
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,153
And a lot of people know
some stuff about you.
349
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,517
Some stuff, I mean, they'll think
they'll know everything, but they won't.
350
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:40,756
Like what happened to you?
351
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,070
Like what happened to me.
352
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:44,874
You thought you knew everything,
but you didn't.
353
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:48,156
No, I didn't.
354
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,550
You listened to one source
and then you flapped your lips.
355
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:52,956
Your funny lips, but all the same,
356
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,033
you made me the face of this epidemic
357
00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:59,431
about literary men attacking
industrious, innocent young women.
358
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,392
That's what two-bit journalists do.
359
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,192
And you're not a journalist, Hannah.
360
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,269
You're a fucking writer.
361
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,960
I can't believe you have a signed copy
of When She Was Good.
362
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:22,794
God, everyone acts like this book
is Philip Roth being the worst,
363
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,474
but it's actually him being the best.
364
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,109
And I know I'm not supposed to like him
because he's like a misogynist,
365
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,640
and he demeans women, but I can't help it.
366
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:29,836
I fucking love his writing.
367
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,992
You can't let politics dictate
what you read or who you fuck.
368
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,390
Those are my rules. Write that down.
369
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,478
I'll do you one better, I'll tattoo it on my body.
370
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,313
Better.
371
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,557
I heard an alternate title for this book
was American Bitch.
372
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,111
I have no idea if that's true,
can't find any proof on the Internet,
373
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,675
but God, if it is, fuck, that's so good.
374
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,230
Why don't you keep the Roth?
375
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:55,150
- Seriously?
- Yeah, seriously.
376
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:56,395
I like how happy it makes you.
377
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:58,839
But it's signed to you and everything.
378
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,520
God, I hope someone writes a book
about what a cunt I am someday.
379
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,917
- Do you?
- Yeah, obviously.
380
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:10,069
What would be better than to like ruin
someone's life with your wanton sex appeal
381
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,436
and, like, icicle-sharp intellect.
382
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,591
But, I'm half-Jewish,
so I don't really see that happening for me.
383
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,310
You really are funny.
384
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:20,510
- Hannah?
- Yeah.
385
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:23,239
Would you lie down with me for a moment?
386
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:26,950
Just a moment.
387
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,159
And I'd encourage you
to keep your clothes on
388
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,716
to delineate any boundaries
that feel right to you.
389
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,350
But I just want to feel close to someone
in a way that I haven't in a long time.
390
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:37,470
If you please.
391
00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,515
Your bed smells like snacks.
392
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,114
I live alone, lady.
393
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,197
I'm sorry I wrote something about you
that, um, upset you so much,
394
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,390
without considering all the facts.
395
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:12,710
It's all right. I'm not angry.
396
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,355
Mmm.
397
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,713
Oh, my fucking God. Oh, my fucking God.
398
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,029
I touched your dick!
399
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:53,675
You pulled your dick out
and I touched your dick.
400
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,912
What the fuck, and now it's still out.
You didn't even put it away.
401
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,357
I can see your dick. It's right there.
402
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:01,960
Hey, Dad!
403
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,631
Hi, love. Hi, honey.
404
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:09,754
Oh, my fucking God.
405
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,270
I'm just confused.
I thought I was going to Mom's.
406
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:15,959
Mom thought
you might have more fun here tonight.
407
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,640
But I don't have my flash cards
or my book. I...
408
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:22,550
Hi.
409
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,475
- Hi.
- This is my friend Hannah.
410
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:26,550
Hi.
411
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,353
Why don't you go play
with your beads and things?
412
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:29,510
I got you some new markers.
413
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,478
But I want to show you
what I've been working on in flute.
414
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,398
It's really good. Do you want to hear?
415
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:36,556
Me?
416
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:40,390
Okay.
417
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,160
Excellent. Cool. Okay.
418
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:53,670
Sorry.
419
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:54,995
Honey, take your time.
35743
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