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00:00:12,628 --> 00:00:17,628
Provided by explosiveskull
https://twitter.com/kaboomskull
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00:42:56,246 --> 00:42:59,849
One, two, three,
four, five, six...
3
00:42:59,882 --> 00:43:01,183
Six feet away!
4
00:43:01,217 --> 00:43:02,885
Six feet away!
5
00:43:02,918 --> 00:43:05,121
Dad, can you come over here
and visit?
6
00:43:11,460 --> 00:43:14,397
I don't really have
happy dreams...
7
00:43:14,664 --> 00:43:16,099
Yeah.
8
00:43:16,132 --> 00:43:20,336
I have to fill out
this paperwork for my kids.
9
00:43:20,369 --> 00:43:22,038
They want to medicate them.
10
00:43:22,070 --> 00:43:24,340
I alone am fighting for
the well-being
11
00:43:24,373 --> 00:43:26,876
and the safety and security
of my children.
12
00:43:26,909 --> 00:43:31,380
Then on top of that, I'm also
doing my work for this job
13
00:43:31,414 --> 00:43:36,420
that I have just got,
working with troubled youth.
14
00:43:37,052 --> 00:43:39,388
So the fight continues on.
15
00:43:41,356 --> 00:43:45,795
I started learning how to love
at the age of 22 years old.
16
00:43:49,199 --> 00:43:51,268
Stop!
You don't operate the phone!
17
00:43:51,300 --> 00:43:54,336
Hey, I gave Yay'veontay the task
to operate the phone.
18
00:43:54,369 --> 00:43:56,239
So may you guys
please allow him to do it?
19
00:43:56,271 --> 00:43:58,208
I'm gonna...
20
00:43:59,943 --> 00:44:03,413
Hey, one of you guys
take the phone and go outside.
21
00:44:03,445 --> 00:44:04,480
Alright...
22
00:44:04,514 --> 00:44:05,349
Oww!
23
00:44:07,617 --> 00:44:10,420
You got your shoes on?
24
00:44:10,452 --> 00:44:11,387
Mhm!
25
00:44:11,420 --> 00:44:12,922
Alright.
26
00:44:12,956 --> 00:44:14,858
Go outside, like by the front
door, and let's see
27
00:44:14,891 --> 00:44:16,927
how the reception is
right there.
28
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,427
I'm outside.
29
00:44:19,561 --> 00:44:21,531
Manieepoo!
30
00:44:21,965 --> 00:44:23,934
What's the deal, Mama?
31
00:44:24,166 --> 00:44:25,402
Nothing.
32
00:44:25,434 --> 00:44:28,905
The video works
so much better with you outside.
33
00:44:29,405 --> 00:44:31,974
- Manieepoo?
- Huh?
34
00:44:32,007 --> 00:44:35,611
Hey, Maniee, stay right there
where the reception is good.
35
00:44:39,615 --> 00:44:41,150
Manieepoo?
36
00:44:46,489 --> 00:44:50,092
My three children were separated
in all different foster homes.
37
00:44:50,126 --> 00:44:54,231
My children's mother and myself
went through a hard break-up and
38
00:44:54,264 --> 00:44:57,634
we both could have conducted
ourselves in a better fashion.
39
00:44:57,666 --> 00:44:59,268
And being that we didn't,
40
00:44:59,302 --> 00:45:01,872
it resulted in our children
being taken from our custody
41
00:45:01,905 --> 00:45:05,542
by the Department of Children
and Family Services.
42
00:45:08,077 --> 00:45:10,614
The current pandemic
has not affected
43
00:45:10,646 --> 00:45:13,851
my current arrangements
for visitation.
44
00:45:16,219 --> 00:45:18,088
Where are you?
45
00:45:18,121 --> 00:45:20,923
I'm not too far from you guys.
46
00:45:20,956 --> 00:45:22,592
Oh, can you come?
47
00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:24,427
Hmmm...
48
00:45:24,927 --> 00:45:27,864
If it's okay with your Auntie.
49
00:45:29,231 --> 00:45:31,601
I may be over there
a little later.
50
00:45:32,068 --> 00:45:36,306
I am not able
to come over there today but...
51
00:45:36,338 --> 00:45:38,607
Hey look, but on a more
serious note,
52
00:45:38,641 --> 00:45:40,443
if you can, I really need you
to pay attention
53
00:45:40,476 --> 00:45:42,311
to what I'm about to tell you.
54
00:45:42,344 --> 00:45:44,146
Wasn't there
a shooting over there?
55
00:45:44,179 --> 00:45:46,148
Like yesterday or
the night before last?
56
00:45:46,181 --> 00:45:48,450
If you're outside, right?
And you hear gunshots,
57
00:45:48,483 --> 00:45:50,953
what are you supposed to do?
58
00:45:50,987 --> 00:45:52,588
- Look?
- No...
59
00:45:52,621 --> 00:45:54,390
- Run?
- No.
60
00:45:54,891 --> 00:45:57,961
- In back... under a car...
- No. No. No.
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00:45:57,994 --> 00:45:59,930
You get down, you prone out.
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00:45:59,963 --> 00:46:02,265
You get as close to the earth
as you can.
63
00:46:02,297 --> 00:46:04,199
You know why I'm telling
you this, right?
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00:46:04,233 --> 00:46:07,070
'Cause that dog right there,
that dog.
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00:46:07,436 --> 00:46:08,538
What?
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00:46:08,570 --> 00:46:10,273
The dog!
67
00:46:10,306 --> 00:46:13,210
- You don't see that dog?
- I don't want...
68
00:46:13,577 --> 00:46:15,645
Okay, lemme see the dog.
69
00:46:26,655 --> 00:46:28,991
If you had super powers, Mama,
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00:46:29,025 --> 00:46:31,295
what super powers
would you want?
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00:46:32,094 --> 00:46:33,495
To fly!
72
00:46:33,528 --> 00:46:34,965
Woo!
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00:46:35,498 --> 00:46:36,432
There we go!
74
00:46:36,465 --> 00:46:38,367
I wanna be extremely fast...
75
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,536
I had a dream that I...
76
00:46:40,570 --> 00:46:44,074
I chose that I could just
run to dad every...
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00:46:44,574 --> 00:46:48,378
My visitation with my children
is at least once a week,
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00:46:48,411 --> 00:46:52,516
for whatever amount of hours
the caretaker allows.
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00:46:53,782 --> 00:46:55,351
For seven years,
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00:46:55,385 --> 00:46:59,356
I have been fighting tooth
and nail to regain custody.
81
00:46:59,755 --> 00:47:02,992
I feel like I'm incomplete.
82
00:47:03,726 --> 00:47:07,297
Sometimes, I get so deep into
my depression
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00:47:07,329 --> 00:47:09,032
that I just wanna be alone,
84
00:47:09,065 --> 00:47:11,067
I don't want to interact
with people.
85
00:47:11,099 --> 00:47:12,668
It's a fight.
86
00:47:12,702 --> 00:47:14,037
Yeah, it's a fight.
87
00:47:14,070 --> 00:47:16,639
You know,
the biggest fight of my life.
88
00:47:16,672 --> 00:47:18,440
Six feet away!
89
00:47:18,474 --> 00:47:20,744
One, two, three,
four, five, six...
90
00:47:20,777 --> 00:47:23,278
Dad, when's the next time
we go to court?
91
00:47:23,311 --> 00:47:25,714
We're supposed
to go to court this month,
92
00:47:25,748 --> 00:47:28,550
but due to
the Covid-19 pandemic,
93
00:47:28,583 --> 00:47:31,620
we was unable to go to court.
94
00:47:31,653 --> 00:47:34,690
So it can be next week,
it can be next month,
95
00:47:34,724 --> 00:47:36,593
or it can be next year.
96
00:47:37,059 --> 00:47:39,429
I wanna be the judge.
97
00:47:39,762 --> 00:47:42,798
So, okay, if you wanna be
the judge, that's magnificent.
98
00:47:42,831 --> 00:47:45,201
Families going through what
we going through,
99
00:47:45,233 --> 00:47:46,436
you can be able
to better assist them
100
00:47:46,469 --> 00:47:48,104
because you went
through it, right?
101
00:47:48,137 --> 00:47:52,442
First I'm gonna work as
a dentist for a little bit then
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00:47:52,474 --> 00:47:56,045
I'm gonna quit it...
and be a judge.
103
00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:59,082
Well, I feel like
we should discuss that...
104
00:47:59,114 --> 00:48:02,418
- a little bit more...
- Six feet away!
105
00:48:02,452 --> 00:48:04,587
Six feet away.
106
00:48:04,619 --> 00:48:07,156
I dream about my kids, yeah.
107
00:48:07,190 --> 00:48:09,425
And when I dream about my kids,
it's just like...
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00:48:09,458 --> 00:48:12,261
things as simple as
having a meal together.
109
00:48:12,295 --> 00:48:13,829
You want some?
110
00:48:13,862 --> 00:48:15,464
Yeah, just gimme a bite.
111
00:48:17,766 --> 00:48:19,602
It's pepperoni.
112
00:48:20,769 --> 00:48:22,072
Conversations,
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00:48:22,105 --> 00:48:23,505
being in the living room,
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00:48:23,539 --> 00:48:24,841
watching TV...
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00:48:24,873 --> 00:48:27,676
The things that a lot of
people take for granted.
116
00:48:27,710 --> 00:48:29,778
Those are daydreams.
117
00:48:29,811 --> 00:48:31,780
Those aren't the physical dreams
118
00:48:31,813 --> 00:48:34,149
that I dream
when I lay down at night,
119
00:48:34,182 --> 00:48:35,719
and try to sleep.
120
00:48:39,322 --> 00:48:42,125
I suffer from PTSD.
121
00:48:42,157 --> 00:48:45,295
My dreams is rooted
in the hardships that
122
00:48:45,327 --> 00:48:48,498
God has blessed me
so far to escape.
123
00:48:48,864 --> 00:48:51,100
Being homeless as a child,
124
00:48:51,134 --> 00:48:52,402
being beaten,
125
00:48:52,434 --> 00:48:54,637
being neglected, you know?
126
00:48:57,139 --> 00:48:59,208
Some nights I don't sleep.
127
00:49:00,376 --> 00:49:02,512
Hey, what's going on,
Yay'veontay?
128
00:49:02,545 --> 00:49:04,646
Good, where you at?
Why won't you come?
129
00:49:04,679 --> 00:49:08,550
You guys are my children,
of course I'm gonna be there.
130
00:49:08,583 --> 00:49:09,551
What's up, Dad?
131
00:49:09,585 --> 00:49:11,753
What's going on, brother?
132
00:49:16,759 --> 00:49:18,795
You look real nice
with your glasses.
133
00:49:18,827 --> 00:49:20,295
Why didn't you put
your bow on?
134
00:49:20,329 --> 00:49:22,565
Why didn't you put it
right here?
135
00:49:22,597 --> 00:49:24,333
Like that?
136
00:49:24,367 --> 00:49:26,202
Dang! I forgot about that...
137
00:49:26,235 --> 00:49:27,871
You forgot?
Wait, come here!
138
00:49:27,903 --> 00:49:30,139
Can I take a picture of you?
139
00:49:35,143 --> 00:49:36,846
I'm happy that my children
140
00:49:36,878 --> 00:49:39,715
were finally able to be placed
in the same residence,
141
00:49:39,748 --> 00:49:42,785
and placed in the care
of family members.
142
00:49:43,652 --> 00:49:46,388
We're hopeful that,
on the next court date,
143
00:49:46,422 --> 00:49:48,657
they're gonna liberalize
my visits.
144
00:49:48,690 --> 00:49:50,459
I'll be able to go get my kids,
145
00:49:50,492 --> 00:49:51,760
and spend about
5 hours with them
146
00:49:51,793 --> 00:49:53,395
take 'em wherever
I want to take 'em,
147
00:49:53,429 --> 00:49:56,833
and at the end of that 5 hours,
drop them back off.
148
00:49:57,967 --> 00:49:59,369
Is you crying?
149
00:49:59,402 --> 00:50:00,403
Say no.
150
00:50:00,436 --> 00:50:02,238
- Cause you're a big man?
- Yeah.
151
00:50:02,271 --> 00:50:03,806
Papa, is you a big man?
152
00:50:03,838 --> 00:50:05,875
Yes, y'all is.
Then you got...
153
00:50:05,907 --> 00:50:06,875
Yay'veontay!
154
00:50:06,909 --> 00:50:09,311
Yay'veontay, right there, man!
155
00:50:09,878 --> 00:50:12,382
Say cheese.
Don't cry, okay?
156
00:50:15,585 --> 00:50:17,320
Stop crying.
157
00:50:17,652 --> 00:50:18,887
Wipe your face.
158
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:20,623
You're a big girl.
159
00:50:20,655 --> 00:50:23,326
Daddy gonna come back
and see you, okay?
160
00:50:23,358 --> 00:50:24,860
Don't cry.
161
00:50:25,927 --> 00:50:27,763
You're gonna be alright.
162
00:50:28,130 --> 00:50:30,799
Sometimes, I'm not capable
of physically
163
00:50:30,833 --> 00:50:32,568
reaching out
and touching my kids,
164
00:50:32,601 --> 00:50:33,902
but spiritually,
165
00:50:33,936 --> 00:50:36,806
we're connected and
they know their father is there.
166
00:50:36,838 --> 00:50:38,875
Periodically,
I dream about my kids,
167
00:50:38,907 --> 00:50:40,376
us flying...
168
00:50:41,210 --> 00:50:45,948
We'll all be together, holding
hands, flying, laughing...
169
00:50:45,981 --> 00:50:49,485
Swimming, without having
to come up for air...
170
00:50:49,518 --> 00:50:52,422
Being able to be free,
and defy the limitations
171
00:50:52,454 --> 00:50:54,590
that the physical put on us.
172
00:50:54,623 --> 00:50:56,792
These dreams bring me peace.
173
00:50:57,126 --> 00:50:59,796
Yeah, peace, peace.
174
00:51:02,498 --> 00:51:05,835
My love, my sunshine, my dear...
175
00:52:04,827 --> 00:52:06,496
Is this recording? No?
176
00:52:06,528 --> 00:52:07,931
Is this recording?
177
00:52:09,699 --> 00:52:11,067
Hi Laura...
178
00:52:11,099 --> 00:52:14,503
So you asked me
to start sending memos about
179
00:52:14,536 --> 00:52:16,939
this ongoing investigation.
180
00:52:18,373 --> 00:52:19,875
Uhmm...
181
00:52:19,909 --> 00:52:20,977
So like this...
182
00:52:21,010 --> 00:52:22,845
We were watching the news about
183
00:52:22,878 --> 00:52:24,847
the spread of
surveillance technology
184
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:26,648
for Corona tracing.
185
00:52:26,681 --> 00:52:29,718
So, the way that kind
of global viral emergency
186
00:52:29,751 --> 00:52:32,087
is used to roll out
the surveillance projects
187
00:52:32,121 --> 00:52:34,691
in different parts of the world.
188
00:52:38,527 --> 00:52:41,563
One company name
was always there...
189
00:52:42,597 --> 00:52:44,500
NSO Group.
190
00:52:44,532 --> 00:52:46,935
So, we already wanted
for a long time
191
00:52:46,969 --> 00:52:49,806
to start an investigation
on the NSO
192
00:52:49,838 --> 00:52:52,607
because NSO software was used
to target
193
00:52:52,641 --> 00:52:54,811
our colleagues and friends.
194
00:52:55,378 --> 00:52:59,082
We know that you know
what it feels to be surveilled,
195
00:52:59,114 --> 00:53:02,584
that surveillance is not only
a breach of privacy,
196
00:53:02,617 --> 00:53:03,952
that it is violence,
197
00:53:03,985 --> 00:53:06,021
that it does things to you,
198
00:53:06,054 --> 00:53:09,725
that things start to happen
to you in the real world...
199
00:53:09,759 --> 00:53:11,094
And then it spreads across
200
00:53:11,126 --> 00:53:12,961
your network of
friends, colleagues,
201
00:53:12,994 --> 00:53:15,597
and stakeholders or clients...
202
00:53:15,630 --> 00:53:19,101
And that being targeted
feels like terror.
203
00:53:58,773 --> 00:54:01,076
If I'm an organization paying
a lot of money
204
00:54:01,110 --> 00:54:02,812
for each targeting hack,
205
00:54:02,844 --> 00:54:05,080
the right thing is
to target a person
206
00:54:05,114 --> 00:54:07,449
at the center of the network.
207
00:54:07,483 --> 00:54:11,454
Carmen is the head person
of the matrix.
208
00:54:11,487 --> 00:54:14,757
So how can you imagine, Nathan,
209
00:54:14,789 --> 00:54:17,692
a way of visualizing
something like that?
210
00:54:17,726 --> 00:54:19,061
Uhmm...
211
00:54:19,094 --> 00:54:22,597
There is a way to illustrate it
through the events.
212
00:54:24,467 --> 00:54:27,603
Anything that's a sphere
is an attack.
213
00:54:27,635 --> 00:54:29,137
It means that
214
00:54:29,170 --> 00:54:32,107
this person on the timeline
has been directly targeted
215
00:54:32,141 --> 00:54:34,577
by that act of violence.
216
00:54:34,876 --> 00:54:36,913
So, it might be a digital act
of violence
217
00:54:36,945 --> 00:54:38,547
or a physical act of violence,
218
00:54:38,581 --> 00:54:40,817
but it's a direct attack
on that person.
219
00:54:42,851 --> 00:54:45,721
When Carmen was first targeted,
220
00:54:45,753 --> 00:54:47,489
if she clicked on that,
221
00:54:47,523 --> 00:54:49,192
it's quite possible
they gained access
222
00:54:49,224 --> 00:54:50,893
to all the conversations
she was having
223
00:54:50,925 --> 00:54:52,628
with all of the members
of her team.
224
00:54:52,661 --> 00:54:55,097
So, from Carmen, and
they attack everybody else.
225
00:54:55,130 --> 00:54:59,501
And then in 2016, that's when
five subjects raid her office.
226
00:55:10,079 --> 00:55:11,714
Hola Carmen!
227
00:55:11,746 --> 00:55:14,082
I am the lead researcher
228
00:55:14,115 --> 00:55:17,119
on this project
with Forensic Architecture.
229
00:55:17,519 --> 00:55:22,090
We're focusing specifically on
the targeted digital violence of
230
00:55:22,123 --> 00:55:25,760
the Israeli cyber weapons
manufacturer, NSO Group,
231
00:55:25,793 --> 00:55:28,931
and the use of Pegasus
around the world.
232
00:55:28,963 --> 00:55:30,532
You are one of...
233
00:55:30,565 --> 00:55:32,667
the first persons
that was documented
234
00:55:32,701 --> 00:55:34,135
by Citizen Lab as being
235
00:55:34,168 --> 00:55:37,473
targeted using Pegasus.
236
00:55:59,094 --> 00:56:01,597
Can you describe
what you remember
237
00:56:01,630 --> 00:56:03,798
as the first message
you received?
238
00:56:03,831 --> 00:56:05,134
The hacks?
239
00:56:59,989 --> 00:57:03,159
Hi Laura, I hope you're okay...
240
00:57:03,192 --> 00:57:06,161
So last night,
I had horrible dreams.
241
00:57:06,195 --> 00:57:09,065
I dreamt that
I was being interrogated,
242
00:57:09,097 --> 00:57:13,302
and I woke up with extreme
anxiety and in cold sweats,
243
00:57:13,335 --> 00:57:16,237
and the first thought
that came to my mind was,
244
00:57:16,271 --> 00:57:18,673
"Are we making a huge mistake?"
245
00:57:18,706 --> 00:57:20,775
I don't want to get
too paranoid,
246
00:57:20,809 --> 00:57:22,345
but I'm also thinking
at the same time
247
00:57:22,378 --> 00:57:24,713
that we've never had
to come across
248
00:57:24,746 --> 00:57:27,182
a company like the NSO group
249
00:57:27,215 --> 00:57:29,085
They're very lawsuit happy,
250
00:57:29,117 --> 00:57:31,086
they go after people,
they intimidate...
251
00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:33,355
Every single person
we've spoken to so far,
252
00:57:33,389 --> 00:57:36,759
whether they're journalists,
lawyers suing them, researchers,
253
00:57:36,791 --> 00:57:38,994
or people who've been targeted,
they're all telling us
254
00:57:39,027 --> 00:57:41,997
this company tries to
intimidate, to scare,
255
00:57:42,030 --> 00:57:43,231
to make your life hell,
256
00:57:43,264 --> 00:57:45,601
just so that you go away.
257
00:58:15,030 --> 00:58:17,867
As an Arab,
we have interest in
258
00:58:17,900 --> 00:58:20,235
what is going on
in the Arab world.
259
00:58:20,268 --> 00:58:23,271
So for us,
it's like a personal matter
260
00:58:23,304 --> 00:58:25,940
as well as a legal matter.
261
00:58:25,974 --> 00:58:28,443
This is not the first time
that we've been targeted
262
00:58:28,476 --> 00:58:30,011
or that we were
under surveillance
263
00:58:30,045 --> 00:58:31,247
by the Indian state.
264
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,215
A lot of my contacts,
when I told them,
265
00:58:33,248 --> 00:58:34,784
look this is happening to me,
266
00:58:34,817 --> 00:58:37,219
They said, "We always presumed
this would happen to you
267
00:58:37,251 --> 00:58:39,855
"so don't worry,
we all prepared for it.
268
00:58:39,887 --> 00:58:42,424
"You must be doing something
really wonderful
269
00:58:42,458 --> 00:58:44,193
"because
the government's spending
270
00:58:44,226 --> 00:58:46,061
a lot of money on this."
271
00:58:47,061 --> 00:58:48,764
These are the phones.
272
00:58:50,798 --> 00:58:52,168
They're all active?
273
00:58:53,034 --> 00:58:54,103
All active.
274
00:58:54,135 --> 00:58:58,273
In Mexico,
when you study journalism,
275
00:58:58,306 --> 00:59:00,208
you take for granted that
276
00:59:00,242 --> 00:59:02,812
the government is going
to be after you.
277
00:59:02,844 --> 00:59:04,913
And we are the lucky ones
278
00:59:04,947 --> 00:59:07,950
because in so many regions
in Mexico,
279
00:59:07,983 --> 00:59:10,286
they get a bullet,
they don't get a message...
280
00:59:10,318 --> 00:59:11,853
They get a bullet.
281
00:59:36,778 --> 00:59:38,514
I'm not sure we can
make the argument
282
00:59:38,547 --> 00:59:40,282
that what
the NSO is enabling,
283
00:59:40,315 --> 00:59:42,952
in terms of operationalizing
its surveillance
284
00:59:42,985 --> 00:59:44,186
into direct violence,
285
00:59:44,219 --> 00:59:46,456
is new territory, right?
286
00:59:47,123 --> 00:59:50,960
I mean the CIA and NSA
do that all the time.
287
00:59:50,992 --> 00:59:53,429
What I think is new is
that we can see the fingerprints
288
00:59:53,461 --> 00:59:54,896
and we can show it.
289
00:59:54,929 --> 00:59:57,232
I think that that points
to something that
290
00:59:57,266 --> 00:59:59,300
I would say might be
new territory,
291
00:59:59,333 --> 01:00:02,538
which is a private company
manufacturing and selling
292
01:00:02,570 --> 01:00:05,474
nation state-level cyberweapons.
293
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,784
There is something
of a viral logic
294
01:00:15,818 --> 01:00:18,387
about this form of targeting
295
01:00:18,420 --> 01:00:22,291
in a way that it spreads
between family members,
296
01:00:22,324 --> 01:00:26,228
but also the people
that investigate those crimes.
297
01:00:26,260 --> 01:00:29,498
If we know that X activist
was targeted on this date
298
01:00:29,530 --> 01:00:31,333
and then immediately
following that,
299
01:00:31,365 --> 01:00:33,369
something physical happened...
300
01:00:33,402 --> 01:00:35,371
Like if one of those threads
could be drawn
301
01:00:35,403 --> 01:00:36,905
through the database.
302
01:00:36,938 --> 01:00:40,009
This is the underlying logic
of this investigation...
303
01:00:40,041 --> 01:00:43,244
Digital vs. physical violence.
So let's start with that.
304
01:00:43,277 --> 01:00:45,413
Look at the same pattern,
305
01:00:45,447 --> 01:00:49,318
across in when and how
does it happen in Mexico,
306
01:00:49,351 --> 01:00:53,823
when and how does this kind of
relation happen in the UAE,
307
01:00:53,856 --> 01:00:56,225
when it happens in Rwanda,
when it happens in India,
308
01:00:56,257 --> 01:00:58,059
if you have data about that,
309
01:00:58,092 --> 01:01:00,528
and find a way to move
310
01:01:00,561 --> 01:01:03,298
between one field of operation
to the other.
311
01:01:03,699 --> 01:01:07,135
All the information is there,
but this is now
312
01:01:07,168 --> 01:01:09,170
the mobilization of the data.
313
01:01:09,204 --> 01:01:11,273
It is not now
about simply plotting
314
01:01:11,306 --> 01:01:13,375
because this material
is being plotted,
315
01:01:13,407 --> 01:01:16,010
political events are there
plotted on a timeline,
316
01:01:16,043 --> 01:01:18,047
there are physical events...
317
01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:20,882
It's now you have
all the strings,
318
01:01:20,916 --> 01:01:23,318
and now you start playing
music on them.
319
01:01:23,351 --> 01:01:25,954
You go like, "I'm just gonna
use these notes."
320
01:01:25,987 --> 01:01:28,523
Ta, ta, ta, ta...
is targeting.
321
01:01:31,626 --> 01:01:33,962
I'm gonna zoom in a little.
322
01:01:33,996 --> 01:01:35,931
So if we go into
the front view,
323
01:01:35,963 --> 01:01:38,534
here we have
the field of Mexico...
324
01:01:38,867 --> 01:01:42,505
So, from on top,
it appears just as a line...
325
01:01:44,172 --> 01:01:47,543
collapsed into a single field.
So this is Mexico.
326
01:01:47,909 --> 01:01:51,246
But then if we view it
from the side,
327
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,917
we see all of the targets, all
the people who've been targeted
328
01:01:54,949 --> 01:01:58,019
by NSO software inside Mexico.
329
01:01:58,052 --> 01:02:00,455
So when we're seeing it
in 3D, for example,
330
01:02:00,489 --> 01:02:05,126
we can see that some targets are
operating in multiple fields,
331
01:02:05,159 --> 01:02:08,396
for example,
Mazen and Citizen Lab operate
332
01:02:08,429 --> 01:02:11,532
in Mexico, Saudi Arabia and UAE.
333
01:02:11,565 --> 01:02:15,570
Our current database includes
every event that we have
334
01:02:15,603 --> 01:02:18,940
which is an attack that's been
performed using NSO software.
335
01:02:18,974 --> 01:02:20,676
And that database lists
all the people
336
01:02:20,708 --> 01:02:22,911
that have been targeted by
337
01:02:22,945 --> 01:02:25,114
the state that
has bought NSO software
338
01:02:25,146 --> 01:02:27,282
and is doing the targeting.
339
01:02:33,722 --> 01:02:36,225
I remember the moment
when the project
340
01:02:36,257 --> 01:02:38,293
gained urgency in my mind,
341
01:02:38,327 --> 01:02:40,629
and that was with Fleming.
342
01:02:40,661 --> 01:02:45,934
This is NSO's first
so-called "civilian product."
343
01:02:45,967 --> 01:02:49,538
It was described as a contact
tracing tool to monitor both
344
01:02:49,570 --> 01:02:52,074
those who had caught Covid-19,
345
01:02:52,106 --> 01:02:56,210
but also those that
they had come into contact with.
346
01:02:56,244 --> 01:03:00,516
It was reported that Fleming
had been marketed to
347
01:03:00,548 --> 01:03:03,985
dozens of health ministries
around the world.
348
01:03:05,619 --> 01:03:08,324
So, it was a set of alarm bells
in my mind
349
01:03:08,356 --> 01:03:11,157
that the same
cyber weapons manufacturer
350
01:03:11,159 --> 01:03:13,461
that had targeted
former collaborators
351
01:03:13,494 --> 01:03:14,730
of Forensic Architecture,
352
01:03:14,762 --> 01:03:18,000
targeted my own personal friends
and colleagues,
353
01:03:18,032 --> 01:03:20,601
and these are all
human rights activists,
354
01:03:20,635 --> 01:03:23,539
researchers, lawyers,
journalists...
355
01:03:23,572 --> 01:03:27,409
This same company is now
offering its services
356
01:03:27,442 --> 01:03:31,512
to deal with
private health details.
357
01:03:34,516 --> 01:03:38,721
When I first started working
on these cases,
358
01:03:39,054 --> 01:03:41,757
it was clear that
359
01:03:41,789 --> 01:03:44,559
we're dealing
with a company that
360
01:03:44,592 --> 01:03:47,596
does not have a lot of respect
for human rights.
361
01:03:47,628 --> 01:03:51,032
Also if you look at
the reporting about the company,
362
01:03:51,065 --> 01:03:52,634
the value of the company,
363
01:03:52,666 --> 01:03:54,569
the money that's involved,
364
01:03:54,603 --> 01:03:56,637
we're talking about
hundreds of millions of dollars.
365
01:03:56,670 --> 01:03:58,773
Of course a lot of
the people in Mexico
366
01:03:58,806 --> 01:04:01,676
that you represent
have lost their jobs,
367
01:04:01,710 --> 01:04:04,612
they've had
their offices broken into,
368
01:04:04,646 --> 01:04:06,782
they've had
their partners killed.
369
01:04:06,815 --> 01:04:11,086
And so the state kills
43 students in Ayotzinapa,
370
01:04:11,119 --> 01:04:13,622
people report on it,
they get hacked,
371
01:04:13,655 --> 01:04:16,725
then their lawyers get targeted,
and so on.
372
01:04:16,757 --> 01:04:19,327
And so a lot of
what we're seeing
373
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:21,429
along the way is
this escalation,
374
01:04:21,463 --> 01:04:24,099
this rise in the way
that people are targeted.
375
01:04:24,132 --> 01:04:26,501
Not only they would gather
information,
376
01:04:26,534 --> 01:04:29,105
but also they can
send messages.
377
01:04:29,505 --> 01:04:35,577
So they can start managing
your relationship with people
378
01:04:35,610 --> 01:04:39,213
by sending them
all kind of information,
379
01:04:39,246 --> 01:04:42,116
messages that supposedly
come from you.
380
01:04:42,150 --> 01:04:47,322
It's like somebody's sitting
in your mind.
381
01:04:51,592 --> 01:04:54,596
The NSO group stands for
the 3 persons
382
01:04:54,628 --> 01:04:57,331
who founded the company in 2010.
383
01:04:57,364 --> 01:05:00,468
Shalev Hulio is
the S in NSO and
384
01:05:00,501 --> 01:05:02,603
perhaps the more well-known
of the three.
385
01:05:02,637 --> 01:05:05,441
He's not exactly
a technical wizard.
386
01:05:05,474 --> 01:05:08,376
He did not serve in Unit 8200,
387
01:05:08,409 --> 01:05:11,312
which is the intelligence unit
in the Israeli Army.
388
01:05:11,346 --> 01:05:13,347
But Shalev Hulio did serve
in the Israeli Army,
389
01:05:13,380 --> 01:05:14,583
and as a commander,
390
01:05:14,615 --> 01:05:16,652
he was involved
in a series of operations
391
01:05:16,684 --> 01:05:18,519
in the occupied West Bank.
392
01:05:18,552 --> 01:05:20,822
One of his operations was
during the height
393
01:05:20,856 --> 01:05:23,492
of the Second Intifada in 2002,
394
01:05:23,525 --> 01:05:26,394
which is
Operation Defensive Shield.
395
01:05:26,427 --> 01:05:29,097
This extremely destructive
operation
396
01:05:29,130 --> 01:05:31,432
involved sending soldiers
397
01:05:31,465 --> 01:05:34,869
straight through the walls
of Palestinian homes, so
398
01:05:34,902 --> 01:05:36,605
instead of fighting their way
399
01:05:36,637 --> 01:05:38,306
through the alleyways
of the camp,
400
01:05:38,340 --> 01:05:41,143
Israeli soldiers
would smash their way
401
01:05:41,175 --> 01:05:43,545
through civilian homes
to clear a path,
402
01:05:43,577 --> 01:05:46,681
blasting their way
through the built environment,
403
01:05:46,715 --> 01:05:50,452
and mobilizing people's homes
against their bodies.
404
01:05:58,726 --> 01:06:02,431
Do you currently...? Do you hold
a security clearance right now?
405
01:06:02,463 --> 01:06:05,867
Nope, I've been this
whistleblower guy in the past.
406
01:06:05,900 --> 01:06:09,370
My interests lie
in helping to get
407
01:06:09,403 --> 01:06:11,806
whatever should be
public, public.
408
01:06:12,474 --> 01:06:15,144
So you can think of me as a
409
01:06:15,177 --> 01:06:18,280
solutions executive
with a software company.
410
01:06:18,313 --> 01:06:21,282
What it boiled down to was that
we had access to the networks,
411
01:06:21,315 --> 01:06:23,651
and NSO was looking for access.
412
01:06:23,684 --> 01:06:25,853
So the access
to the network would be...
413
01:06:25,887 --> 01:06:28,690
They would get a global title.
414
01:06:28,722 --> 01:06:30,592
They would have a piece
of software into it
415
01:06:30,625 --> 01:06:31,659
that would have access
416
01:06:31,693 --> 01:06:33,829
to the live operator network.
417
01:06:34,195 --> 01:06:35,898
This was a conference call.
418
01:06:35,931 --> 01:06:39,367
They were very hesitant
to share their names.
419
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,702
I took their names
and email addresses
420
01:06:41,735 --> 01:06:44,373
just in the event
something bad were to happen.
421
01:06:44,672 --> 01:06:47,241
So I met with
all these people...
422
01:06:47,275 --> 01:06:50,311
Omri, Eddy Shalev,
Eran Gorev...
423
01:06:51,445 --> 01:06:52,714
Wow.
424
01:06:53,047 --> 01:06:56,284
There's a tremendous amount
of value in that,
425
01:06:56,318 --> 01:06:59,488
to get access to
operator signaling networks.
426
01:06:59,521 --> 01:07:01,524
It made me very uncomfortable.
427
01:07:02,757 --> 01:07:06,228
I did reach out to the FBI,
multiple times...
428
01:07:06,260 --> 01:07:08,931
Do you know what happened
with that information?
429
01:07:08,963 --> 01:07:12,668
I don't know,
it was very silent after that.
430
01:07:13,501 --> 01:07:16,737
It's gonna take
a second to process this.
431
01:07:16,771 --> 01:07:18,539
And are you in a position
432
01:07:18,572 --> 01:07:20,641
where you could provide
access globally
433
01:07:20,675 --> 01:07:23,612
or just in the US
or in what countries?
434
01:07:24,679 --> 01:07:25,681
Globally.
435
01:07:48,836 --> 01:07:50,706
Hey, it's me.
436
01:07:50,739 --> 01:07:53,375
So I'm having
all these flashbacks.
437
01:07:53,407 --> 01:07:55,844
The first time
Snowden contacted me,
438
01:07:55,876 --> 01:07:58,947
I was sitting here,
I was in this room.
439
01:08:00,481 --> 01:08:03,252
There was a kind of demarcation
440
01:08:03,284 --> 01:08:06,520
of my life, before and after.
441
01:08:06,554 --> 01:08:07,855
Those I could trust,
442
01:08:07,889 --> 01:08:10,359
and then people
who enter my life after,
443
01:08:10,391 --> 01:08:12,961
who are always
in question, right?
444
01:08:12,993 --> 01:08:14,496
Uhmm...
445
01:08:14,529 --> 01:08:16,665
And even the people
you knew before
446
01:08:16,698 --> 01:08:18,601
can always be flipped.
447
01:08:21,636 --> 01:08:22,972
And so...
448
01:08:23,838 --> 01:08:27,009
Listening to people
tell this story
449
01:08:27,042 --> 01:08:29,411
about this kind
of surveillance...
450
01:08:29,444 --> 01:08:32,748
It just hits home, right?
It's super unnerving.
451
01:08:37,985 --> 01:08:40,721
I escaped
from my country under
452
01:08:40,755 --> 01:08:43,292
the risk of being arrested.
453
01:08:43,958 --> 01:08:48,663
The field that I'm focusing on,
it's a very sensitive field.
454
01:08:48,697 --> 01:08:54,735
I'm trying to record
the violations of human rights,
455
01:08:54,769 --> 01:08:57,972
how they treat
prisoners, detainees,
456
01:08:58,006 --> 01:09:00,008
if they were tortured...
457
01:09:00,041 --> 01:09:03,744
And my father,
he is one of the detainees so
458
01:09:03,778 --> 01:09:07,849
I want to speak about him,
and raise his case.
459
01:09:07,881 --> 01:09:11,519
And I'm his daughter,
I have to do something.
460
01:09:11,552 --> 01:09:12,854
I have to tell you,
461
01:09:12,886 --> 01:09:15,323
as you're talking
I'm trying to...
462
01:09:15,356 --> 01:09:17,826
Laura has definitely
her experiences
463
01:09:17,859 --> 01:09:20,796
with being
targeted and surveilled.
464
01:09:20,828 --> 01:09:25,599
My experiences
with state violence are...
465
01:09:25,632 --> 01:09:28,069
have so far been more physical.
466
01:09:28,103 --> 01:09:31,340
In my family,
we left Iran when we were young,
467
01:09:31,372 --> 01:09:34,608
and I'm just thinking that
we left for political reasons,
468
01:09:34,641 --> 01:09:36,778
my parents were both
political prisoners,
469
01:09:36,810 --> 01:09:39,680
and when we came here,
we continued our politics...
470
01:09:39,713 --> 01:09:41,716
We would go
to protest every week
471
01:09:41,750 --> 01:09:44,552
with other Iranian, Afghan...
472
01:09:44,586 --> 01:09:47,422
Kurdish refugees.
473
01:09:47,454 --> 01:09:48,989
My mother was part of the
474
01:09:49,023 --> 01:09:51,659
International Federation
of Iranian Refugees,
475
01:09:51,693 --> 01:09:55,063
and she did it here because
she was away from Iran.
476
01:09:55,095 --> 01:09:57,565
If she were to do that today,
477
01:09:57,599 --> 01:09:59,900
the Islamic Republic
would be able to
478
01:09:59,934 --> 01:10:03,070
reach out and touch her,
so to speak,
479
01:10:03,104 --> 01:10:05,474
in the way that
your home government
480
01:10:05,506 --> 01:10:07,541
is reaching out
and touching you.
481
01:10:07,574 --> 01:10:12,447
It's a completely different
ball game for activists,
482
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:16,351
and especially activists
coming from places where...
483
01:10:17,286 --> 01:10:21,489
There is much more
of a physical cost in resisting.
484
01:11:03,664 --> 01:11:05,533
The link
between digital violence
485
01:11:05,567 --> 01:11:06,902
and physical violence
486
01:11:06,935 --> 01:11:09,571
becomes the most clear
when we look at the cases
487
01:11:09,604 --> 01:11:11,507
from Saudi Arabia.
488
01:11:18,846 --> 01:11:20,849
He's writing articles,
he's doing columns,
489
01:11:20,881 --> 01:11:22,116
he's giving talks.
490
01:11:22,149 --> 01:11:25,453
Then Omar Abdulazziz
and Khashoggi communicate,
491
01:11:25,487 --> 01:11:26,788
and right after that,
492
01:11:26,820 --> 01:11:28,789
Abdulazziz gets
targeted digitally.
493
01:11:28,823 --> 01:11:32,160
They communicated almost
on a daily basis.
494
01:11:32,193 --> 01:11:34,930
That means that
all the messages
495
01:11:34,962 --> 01:11:37,698
that they exchanged were there
to be hacked
496
01:11:37,731 --> 01:11:40,502
because they were all saved
on the WhatsApp account.
497
01:11:40,534 --> 01:11:44,872
That was a treasure that the
government of Saudi Arabia found
498
01:11:44,905 --> 01:11:49,610
because they just discovered
the nature of the relationship
499
01:11:50,645 --> 01:11:53,615
between two big dissidents.
500
01:11:55,149 --> 01:11:57,486
One month before
they killed him,
501
01:11:57,519 --> 01:12:00,789
he sent me a private message
on Twitter
502
01:12:01,456 --> 01:12:04,827
when I was attacked by
Saudi bots and trolls.
503
01:12:05,493 --> 01:12:08,929
He told me, "Ghada, block them,
504
01:12:08,962 --> 01:12:11,832
"ignore them,
and don't get upset.
505
01:12:11,865 --> 01:12:14,002
"Just block them like I do."
506
01:12:16,570 --> 01:12:19,173
And every day,
the more we discovered
507
01:12:19,207 --> 01:12:21,576
what happened to him
and how he was...
508
01:12:21,609 --> 01:12:24,846
how he went in,
how they told him to sit down,
509
01:12:24,878 --> 01:12:27,248
how they came with the saw,
510
01:12:27,282 --> 01:12:30,752
how... when they started to...
511
01:12:35,256 --> 01:12:39,094
When he couldn't breathe,
and then, you know, I was...
512
01:12:39,793 --> 01:12:43,164
The details, you know,
it was so...
513
01:12:43,698 --> 01:12:48,170
I don't know how to describe
it actually, it's a nightmare.
514
01:12:51,338 --> 01:12:55,143
My heart starts beating
and I say, "God, please...
515
01:12:55,542 --> 01:12:59,046
"Let it be quickly,
let me read something
516
01:12:59,079 --> 01:13:00,881
"that says he didn't suffer."
517
01:13:00,914 --> 01:13:04,719
He didn't have time to realize
that he was killed
518
01:13:04,752 --> 01:13:08,724
by his own government,
by his own people.
519
01:13:14,729 --> 01:13:19,067
This assassination was empowered
with Israeli software,
520
01:13:19,100 --> 01:13:22,337
and since then,
Saudi Arabia hasn't paid a price
521
01:13:22,369 --> 01:13:25,073
because of its alliances
with America,
522
01:13:25,105 --> 01:13:28,076
its investments in Europe,
and so on.
523
01:13:28,109 --> 01:13:33,014
So it's really
the dispensability of our lives.
524
01:13:33,046 --> 01:13:35,783
That's something
that became very clear.
525
01:14:00,707 --> 01:14:02,676
Officially on the record,
526
01:14:02,710 --> 01:14:06,146
NSO isn't allowed
to operate in the United States.
527
01:14:06,180 --> 01:14:09,117
But it's attempted
to enter American markets
528
01:14:09,149 --> 01:14:11,118
for the sale
of its hacking software
529
01:14:11,152 --> 01:14:13,989
at least a couple of times
that we know about.
530
01:14:14,021 --> 01:14:17,859
In 2016, they reached out to the
San Diego Police Department
531
01:14:17,891 --> 01:14:21,028
to sell a version of Pegasus
called Phantom.
532
01:14:43,016 --> 01:14:47,021
The brochure for Phantom boasts
that it can intercept calls,
533
01:14:47,055 --> 01:14:48,823
do location tracking,
534
01:14:48,855 --> 01:14:50,658
access a person's messages,
535
01:14:50,692 --> 01:14:52,793
their browsing history,
their social networks,
536
01:14:52,827 --> 01:14:54,329
their contact lists.
537
01:14:54,362 --> 01:14:57,699
So, we now know there is
an appetite from the U.S. police
538
01:14:57,731 --> 01:14:59,768
for these kinds of tools.
539
01:15:00,368 --> 01:15:02,337
But in the context
of a pandemic,
540
01:15:02,369 --> 01:15:04,972
where we are seeing
rising inequality,
541
01:15:05,006 --> 01:15:08,076
in a context where communities
are protesting en masse
542
01:15:08,109 --> 01:15:09,811
against racialized policing,
543
01:15:09,844 --> 01:15:11,913
it's extremely fucking scary
544
01:15:11,945 --> 01:15:14,215
to think of
what incredible damage
545
01:15:14,247 --> 01:15:16,784
tools like Pegasus and Phantom
546
01:15:16,818 --> 01:15:19,887
can do in the hands
of law enforcement.
547
01:33:37,884 --> 01:33:39,420
Dear Clyde,
548
01:33:39,787 --> 01:33:42,122
Your brother didn't make it.
549
01:33:42,154 --> 01:33:44,291
I don't have all the details,
550
01:33:44,323 --> 01:33:47,226
but I wanted you to hear it
from me first.
551
01:33:47,260 --> 01:33:49,496
The Lord's been
looking out for me,
552
01:33:49,529 --> 01:33:51,932
and I guess He saw it fit
to let me know.
553
01:33:51,965 --> 01:33:56,302
He's called my sweet boy,
your brother, to His side.
554
01:33:56,336 --> 01:33:58,438
As you know,
he was doing poorly,
555
01:33:58,470 --> 01:34:00,306
but I'd hoped
he'd hang in there until
556
01:34:00,340 --> 01:34:02,208
I made it back to fetch him.
557
01:34:02,242 --> 01:34:04,845
I guess it wasn't meant to be.
558
01:34:04,877 --> 01:34:06,445
I'll be...
559
01:34:20,393 --> 01:34:22,296
I'll be hitting the road
in the morning
560
01:34:22,328 --> 01:34:24,297
to see him one last time
561
01:34:24,331 --> 01:34:25,932
before they bury him.
562
01:34:30,002 --> 01:34:33,072
I will let you know
what I find out.
563
01:34:33,640 --> 01:34:35,476
Love, Dad.
564
01:34:40,881 --> 01:34:42,249
Dear Clyde,
565
01:34:43,216 --> 01:34:45,386
I saw your brother today.
566
01:34:45,685 --> 01:34:47,887
They had him set up
in the church,
567
01:34:47,921 --> 01:34:50,090
him and all the rest
of the dead.
568
01:34:50,590 --> 01:34:54,094
They wouldn't let me through
the door for fear of catching it
569
01:34:54,127 --> 01:34:57,298
but I could see him
from the threshold.
570
01:34:58,230 --> 01:35:00,099
So tiny.
571
01:35:00,934 --> 01:35:03,436
Just like he always was.
572
01:35:05,070 --> 01:35:08,041
They didn't tell me
they were Presbyterians.
573
01:35:08,341 --> 01:35:11,143
I don't know
how I feel about that.
574
01:35:11,176 --> 01:35:13,279
I don't know how I feel about
them being the ones
575
01:35:13,313 --> 01:35:15,015
to bury him neither.
576
01:35:15,047 --> 01:35:16,916
But they say they can't release
any of them bodies
577
01:35:16,949 --> 01:35:18,452
that don't have kin,
578
01:35:18,484 --> 01:35:21,954
be they Baptists, or Catholic
or Buddhists even.
579
01:35:23,489 --> 01:35:25,626
Those are the rules.
580
01:35:27,627 --> 01:35:30,431
It was strange being back
in a church.
581
01:35:31,297 --> 01:35:33,500
I didn't feel unwelcome.
582
01:35:33,533 --> 01:35:36,103
Nor did they cast
an untowards eye at me
583
01:35:36,136 --> 01:35:37,938
when they heard my name.
584
01:35:37,970 --> 01:35:40,373
Maybe they don't know who I am.
585
01:35:40,407 --> 01:35:42,909
Wouldn't that be something?
586
01:35:43,710 --> 01:35:45,979
Or maybe
they're just being kind.
587
01:35:49,716 --> 01:35:52,286
I haven't led the best life...
588
01:35:52,719 --> 01:35:55,055
I know you know this,
589
01:35:55,087 --> 01:35:58,358
but I hope some day
we can talk about it.
590
01:35:59,158 --> 01:36:02,695
I hope you can find it
in your heart to forgive me.
591
01:36:02,729 --> 01:36:06,367
Or, if not that,
then to understand me.
592
01:36:06,966 --> 01:36:11,070
And think of me with something
that isn't disappointment.
593
01:36:13,539 --> 01:36:15,708
A fellow just walked
through here with his face
594
01:36:15,742 --> 01:36:17,476
all cut to pieces.
595
01:36:17,510 --> 01:36:20,079
I wonder what his story is.
596
01:36:20,546 --> 01:36:22,548
I look at the world
sometimes and
597
01:36:22,582 --> 01:36:25,953
think it a wonder
that I still recognize it.
598
01:36:27,186 --> 01:36:30,222
I wonder if I'd recognize you.
599
01:36:31,423 --> 01:36:33,726
I would call you
if I had your number.
600
01:36:33,760 --> 01:36:35,162
But...
601
01:36:35,194 --> 01:36:38,498
Long silences are
best endured in person.
602
01:36:38,899 --> 01:36:42,469
And I imagine, you and I,
we'd have plenty of those.
603
01:36:42,969 --> 01:36:46,506
If you want to write,
you can do so in care of
604
01:36:46,538 --> 01:36:49,208
the St. James
Presbyterian Church...
605
01:36:49,242 --> 01:36:51,043
in Mildred.
606
01:36:51,077 --> 01:36:52,612
That's where your brother is.
607
01:36:52,645 --> 01:36:55,315
And that's where
you'll be able to find me,
608
01:36:55,347 --> 01:36:57,717
at least until
he's good and buried.
609
01:36:59,386 --> 01:37:01,455
Please do write.
610
01:37:01,488 --> 01:37:03,023
Let me know you got this.
611
01:37:03,055 --> 01:37:06,158
Please leave your message...
612
01:37:06,192 --> 01:37:08,494
Love, Dad.
613
01:37:14,801 --> 01:37:17,337
Clyde, I took him.
614
01:37:21,207 --> 01:37:23,276
I couldn't let them do it.
615
01:37:23,309 --> 01:37:25,145
It just wasn't right.
616
01:37:25,578 --> 01:37:27,614
I didn't make a fuss about it.
617
01:37:27,646 --> 01:37:30,350
I stole into the rectory
at night,
618
01:37:30,382 --> 01:37:32,586
took his body in my arms,
619
01:37:32,886 --> 01:37:35,322
and bore him out of there.
620
01:37:35,354 --> 01:37:37,690
I was going to drive him
back to Texas because
621
01:37:37,724 --> 01:37:40,260
I wanted to bury him
next to your Ma.
622
01:37:40,760 --> 01:37:43,329
But before I even got
to the border,
623
01:37:43,363 --> 01:37:46,432
that poor boy
started to turn foul.
624
01:37:47,500 --> 01:37:51,505
I wrapped him in his sheet
and found a good spot for him...
625
01:37:52,372 --> 01:37:54,375
where he'd be safe.
626
01:37:55,141 --> 01:37:59,445
It's too late for me now,
but I got this notion that,
627
01:37:59,479 --> 01:38:01,782
you might finish what I started.
628
01:38:02,414 --> 01:38:05,418
It wouldn't be hard to find him
if you knew where to look,
629
01:38:05,452 --> 01:38:07,654
so I drew you this map.
630
01:38:07,686 --> 01:38:10,157
Take the highway
west out of Dallas,
631
01:38:10,189 --> 01:38:12,158
until you get to Neta Road.
632
01:38:12,192 --> 01:38:13,393
Go north.
633
01:38:13,426 --> 01:38:15,462
When you get to the church
on your left,
634
01:38:15,494 --> 01:38:18,297
look for the old wagon path
on the right.
635
01:38:18,331 --> 01:38:20,766
And take that until
you get to the river.
636
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:23,270
Stop when you get
to the end of it.
637
01:38:23,302 --> 01:38:25,204
Thirteen paces from the river,
638
01:38:25,238 --> 01:38:29,142
between the two tallest elms
is where I buried him.
639
01:38:29,175 --> 01:38:32,645
Deep enough that
the coyotes won't find him.
640
01:38:32,679 --> 01:38:36,416
But not so deep that
you'll have to dig for long.
641
01:38:39,219 --> 01:38:40,686
If you were to fetch him,
642
01:38:40,720 --> 01:38:43,490
and take him back
to where he belongs,
643
01:38:44,023 --> 01:38:46,159
I could rest easy.
644
01:38:46,192 --> 01:38:49,362
I could say I've done
all I need to do in this world.
645
01:38:49,395 --> 01:38:51,598
But don't do it for me.
646
01:38:52,064 --> 01:38:54,400
He loved you so.
647
01:38:55,534 --> 01:38:57,636
And even now,
648
01:38:57,670 --> 01:38:59,672
under all that dirt,
649
01:39:00,506 --> 01:39:03,342
I know he doesn't want
to be alone.
650
01:39:05,478 --> 01:39:08,481
I trust these letters
are making their way to you.
651
01:39:08,814 --> 01:39:11,884
I trust you've been hearing
what people say about me, too.
652
01:39:11,917 --> 01:39:15,421
But I hope you know
there's more to me than that.
653
01:39:15,721 --> 01:39:19,725
I think back often to the
last time we were all together.
654
01:39:19,759 --> 01:39:22,529
You and me and your brother.
655
01:39:22,828 --> 01:39:24,630
And your Ma...
656
01:39:24,663 --> 01:39:27,533
in that little house in Medford.
657
01:39:28,534 --> 01:39:33,340
Even back then,
I was failing every step I took.
658
01:39:34,573 --> 01:39:38,111
But with you two,
I got things right.
659
01:39:39,578 --> 01:39:40,880
Clyde.
660
01:39:41,247 --> 01:39:43,483
I won't write again.
661
01:39:44,617 --> 01:39:46,753
But know that I love you.
662
01:39:47,654 --> 01:39:49,590
I surely do.
663
01:41:29,622 --> 01:41:31,858
Dear Clyde...
664
01:41:33,893 --> 01:41:37,230
Daddy said you'd be coming.
665
01:41:39,564 --> 01:41:42,668
He said you'd be coming
to get me.
666
01:41:43,903 --> 01:41:46,472
I can hear you digging.
667
01:41:47,873 --> 01:41:50,909
I can hear you getting closer.
668
01:41:50,943 --> 01:41:52,279
And...
669
01:41:52,679 --> 01:41:55,582
I wish I could tell you to stop.
670
01:41:58,551 --> 01:42:01,755
I wish I could tell you
I'm happy.
671
01:42:01,787 --> 01:42:04,857
And that I just want
to go on resting.
672
01:42:06,725 --> 01:42:09,295
But I guess I can't.
673
01:42:10,896 --> 01:42:13,399
'Cause there you are.
674
01:42:17,904 --> 01:42:19,940
And I don't know...
675
01:42:22,574 --> 01:42:25,345
You look different
than I remember.
676
01:42:28,680 --> 01:42:31,484
I wonder what happened to you.
677
01:42:35,454 --> 01:42:38,658
I wonder
what the world looks like now.
678
01:42:46,399 --> 01:42:48,868
I guess you'll tell me
what's changed,
679
01:42:48,900 --> 01:42:51,505
and what I missed out on.
680
01:42:53,538 --> 01:42:56,376
I didn't much like things
the way they were
681
01:42:56,408 --> 01:42:58,478
when Daddy was around.
682
01:42:58,511 --> 01:43:00,847
But maybe that was
because of him.
683
01:43:06,652 --> 01:43:09,823
Or maybe
that was just everyone.
684
01:43:14,025 --> 01:43:16,528
All of the people I thought
were good
685
01:43:16,561 --> 01:43:18,698
turned out to be bad.
686
01:43:19,198 --> 01:43:21,867
And I just want to sleep...
687
01:43:21,900 --> 01:43:24,770
so that I wouldn't have
to see them.
688
01:43:26,005 --> 01:43:29,109
Except,
I remember this one lady...
689
01:43:29,509 --> 01:43:33,479
She would take me to the window
and let me look out.
690
01:43:33,512 --> 01:43:35,948
And there were birds
in the sky.
691
01:43:36,248 --> 01:43:38,784
And even though
it hurt so bad,
692
01:43:38,818 --> 01:43:40,954
she would look at me and say,
693
01:43:40,987 --> 01:43:44,591
"Well, at least
it's a beautiful day."
694
01:43:45,725 --> 01:43:48,495
"At least
it's a beautiful day."
695
01:43:48,927 --> 01:43:51,064
But I don't know if it was.
696
01:43:52,131 --> 01:43:54,768
I don't know if it ever was.
697
01:43:55,167 --> 01:43:58,572
I don't know
if it ever will be again.
698
01:44:01,440 --> 01:44:02,675
Will it?
699
01:44:08,847 --> 01:44:12,851
But she would go on
smiling all the same.
700
01:44:12,885 --> 01:44:16,655
And we'd sit and look
out the window.
701
01:44:16,956 --> 01:44:19,426
And watch it get dark.
702
01:56:16,769 --> 01:56:21,769
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