All language subtitles for Hart To Heart s01e02 Don Cheadle.eng

* *

Today's guest is
a friend and a brother,

actor, producer,
writer, director.

More importantly,
just an amazing talent.

Im talking about none other
than Don Cheadle.

-Oh, man, look at this.
-Kevin.

-Come on, wow, what a walk, huh?
-I try.

-What a walk out.
-I mean, well, hey, now,

it's you.
How am I gonna walk out?

Look at that. Look at the way
you came from there to here.

Can we run it back?
Is there any way we can see it?

-We can't. We can't.
-Oh, okay.

-I don't think
you want to see it. -Should I sit?

-Now you can.
-Okay. Excellent.

Don, this is my talk show.
Please don't tell me what to do.

-No, I said, "Can I sit?"
-I know, but the way you said it was aggressive.

-For once... but for once,
-This is gonna be great.

-let me... let me be in control.
-You got it.

God! Welcome
to "Hart to Heart," Don.

-Thank you, brother.
-Huh? You see how I turned it on just now?

-Like that. Yeah.
-Welcome, Don,

to "Hart to Heart," man.
Uh, it's a pleasure.

-It really is a pleasure
to have you here. -The pleasure's all mine, Kevin.

Don, I know you're not drinking,
but I have a sommelier.

-Oh, you siddity.
-I drink wine here.

Uh, the reason why is
because here on "Hart to Heart,"

I believe that
amazing conversations happen

over a glass of wine.

This is my sommelier right here.

-Mr. Cheadle. Mr. Hart.
-Yeah, Don can have water.

-Absolutely.
-What are we drinking today? What kind?

-North Coast, 2018. Belleruche.
-Ooh. Ooh! Ooh!

-Not the Belleruche.
-Oh, my goodness.

And for Mr. Cheadle,
Los Angeles' finest.

-Yeah.
-High pH.

Spikot water.

-SOMMELIER: May I?
-From the spikot.

Yeah. You can go ahead and pour
that for me. Thank you, man.

-Very well.
-How is it that you can pronounce "sommelier," but...

-But what?
-you get "spigot" wrong?

-Spikot water for what? Spikot?
-You don't drink wine.

-You didn't want wine.
-You say "spikot" with a "K"?

Spikot. Spikot water.

-Spigot.
I think it's with a "G." -Spikot.

-Spikot water.
-You're not even...

That's enough for him.
That's enough.

He doesn't need more than that.

-Thank you. Thank you.
-Thank you. -Please enjoy, gentlemen.

-My guy.
-Thank you. Please enjoy.

-Much appreciated.
-I might need more.

-I'll be back.
-This is gonna be one of those interviews

that go... that go long.

Could I have a splash
of wine in...?

-No. No, you don't need it.
-Cool. You're right.

Uh, Don, man, I'm dead serious

when I say it's a pleasure
to have you here, dude.

One of my closest friends
in the business. I can say that.

-Yep. Yep.
-Right?

How many years
we been friends now?

(sputters)
Dude, it's... I don't even...

-What's the number?
-If I would say a number,

-Yeah.
-I would say... 1998.

A real friend is
a very rare breed

in this town that we live in.

I feel like it comes very far,
few and in between.

And when you find
good relationships,

you hold on to them, Don.

You, my friend,
are a good relationship.

You're one that I've held on to.
Let's get to the interview, Don.

-You're right.
-Drugs: do you do them?

Wow! Just right to it.

-The people want to know.
-Do the people want to know,

-or do you want to know?
-I mean...

'Cause you'd think a friend...

-Yeah.
-...would already know that.

Seems like you're running
from the question to me.

-(clears throat quietly)
-Yeah.

I guess we'll leave that one
in the air.

-We'll put a pin in that.
-Here, here, let's do this.

-We'll put a pin in it.
-What kind of drugs?

-Well, Don, I don't know.
-Class A drugs?

What's class A?

Like you don't know
what class A drugs are.

-What is a class A...
-Kevin, stop.

-Stop. Stop.
-I have no idea what class A means, Don.

-We know. Stop.
We know you know. -What does class A mean, Don?

-Kevin.
-Is that the hard stuff?

(laughing)

That's the stuff
that certain "friends"

-Okay. Okay. All right...
-...may have.

So now you want me
to stop, right?

-Yeah. This is...
-Okay, that's cool.

You just... you went...
you went to someplace where...

where we're not supposed to go.

I don't know.
You tee up drugs and then you...

seems like it's
a wide open lane,

and I start to get specific,

and you're like,
"Okay, that's enough."

Here's what I respect the most
about Mr. Cheadle.

I don't know how... I
don't know how you've done this.

I have no idea
how you've done it, and I'm...

honestly, I'm in awe of it.

Your private life is so...

so hidden,
so out of reach from the masses,

from the public.

I mean, wha... who you are
outside of the business,

what you are
outside of the business,

it's a high level of unknown.

You know, it's really what you
choose to allow people to see.

How have you...
how have you managed to control

that narrative in a... in a way

where it's honestly
just in your favor?

Like, and even in times today,
where it can sway...

-Right.
-...where people can dig, it's never been a question.

And there's only a few,
there's only a few

that actually have done that--
you are one of the few.

I-I honestly think
it's a mix of, uh,

me trying to protect it and be
really careful about what I do

and where I go, and...

and people not giving a shit.

It's that...
(laughing)

-and people don't care.
-What do you mean, "People don't care"?

I mean, you know,
I've had paparazzi follow me,

and-and then they're like...

"You're not...
you're not gonna do nothing?"

-I'm like, "I'm at the store,
I'm gonna buy some eggs, -Yeah. Yeah.

and I'm gonna go over there and
I'm gonna get some broccoli."

They're like, "This..."

That's it. It's nothing.

They don't care.
It's not exciting.

I'm not... there's nothing out
there to really, like, watch.

I'm really a dude
from the Midwest

who came from a family with
two parents and a, you know,

a dog and very kind of basic,
boring shit.

There's not a whole lot,

and I kind of created that
with my life.

I have a wife.
My kids are grown now. We...

-Okay.
-So I'm not out there in the streets

to be a part of a lot of stuff

that people would want to know
a lot of stuff.

And I also think, as an actor,

it kind of helps
to be less known.

-Mm-hmm.
-Because then I think peo... it's easier for people

to believe you
in the roles you're in,

because they're not like,

"Oh, no,
that's that dude that that."

They're like, "I don't really
know who that dude is.

-He's a cipher, a little bit."
-You know what's crazy is,

I don't even want to say...

It's kind of a old-school,
uh, way of thinking,

-Hmm.
-because it's true, right?

What you just said is... it's
so true, and it makes sense,

and I've heard
the Denzels of the world say it.

I've heard the Samuel L.
Jacksons of the world say it.

You know,
I hear you now saying it,

that less is more from
what you give to the public.

Uh, do you feel like the changes

that have come
with the times today,

uh, is it... is it better,
in your opinion,

for the younger generations
of actors and actresses

that are coming up, that
are allowed and able to give

-so much more to their fan base?
-Right.

Do you like that side of it,
or do you not like it?

I don't...
I mean, well, now it's, like,

-it's almost required, like...
-Mm-hmm.

like, they're...
they cast people off of

if they have
Instagram followers,

what their following is or not,
you know?

That-that gives them an edge
over another actor in a role.

So that's something that's
completely brand-new to me.

And that they're expected
to participate in that in a way

that's not just, like,
like we do a press junket.

It's not that. It's like,
"Oh, you need to post this.

"You need to make sure
you get on this on Instagram.

You need to tweet this out."

So there's a huge public-facing,

you know,
part of actors' personas

that had nothing to do
with anything when we came up.

-Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
-Now we're a part of it, too,

and we're asked to do the same
things and take advantage,

but we're already established
at this point.

So for people just coming up...

Like, I had a kid asking me
today, like, "What do I do?

How do I start?
I'm trying to get out there."

I was like, "I have no idea."

-Wow.
-Because we used to audition for people.

-Yeah.
-We'd go in a room.

-Yeah.
-And I'm pretty sure-- I wasn't in those rooms with you--

but I'm pretty sure
you knew how to win the room.

-Absolutely.
-So I would know how to win the room.

That was a... that was a part
of the audition, actually.

-That was the aud...
that was, for me, the audition. -Mm-hmm.

And I'd win the room,
and then I'd be like,

"Oh, yeah,
now let's do these words."

And by the time
you did the words,

they were already, like,
they're already into you.

So they're trying to figure out
a reason to say yes,

as opposed
to an excuse to say no.

And now when they look at tape,
it's the exact opposite.

-It's...
-They're trying to exclude people.

-Yeah.
-So when people... when young actors say,

"What do I do to start?"
I'm like, "Dude, I really...

I have no idea,
I really couldn't tell you."

You said you're
from the Midwest.

-Where you from, Don?
-Uh, Kansas City, Missouri.

Kansas City, Missouri.
Outskirts or inner city?

-City.
-The city.

-Uh, mom, dad, you said a dog.
-Yep.

-No brothers? No sisters?
-Yep, brother and sister.

-Really?
-I'm middle kid. Younger brother, older sister.

Uh, are they cooler than you?

I think most people
would say that.

I would... I would believe it.

Yeah. I mean,
it's not hard to imagine, right?

I'm not saying it
in a negative way,

-but I could definitely see...
-No, no, no, no. I get it.

-I get it. Yeah, I get it.
-I can definitely see them just being a... a cooler...

I mean, I'm wearing a vest.

They got to be cooler
than me, right?

-I wasn't gonna say it.
-Right?

-Well, Don...
-Right, Kevin?

-That's aggressive.
I know what you're doing. -What do you mean?

It's aggressive.
I know what you're doing.

-Because I leaned forward?
-Yeah.

-My back hurts.
-Yeah. You've done this before.

-Okay. Well, you...
-I'm just gonna say let's calm down.

As an old friend, I think you...

-we're attuned
to each other's signals. -You're absolutely right.

-Yeah.
-By the way, nice vest.

I appreciate that.
Ask me what suit it goes to.

What suit does it go to?

-No idea, Kevin.
-You have no idea.

No idea. It was a costume
from a show I did.

-Yeah, you just took it.
-I took it.

-You took it.
-I took it.

* *

* *

When did... when did Don Cheadle
decide that he wanted to act?

I think,
according to my family,

a lot earlier
than I remember saying it.

Like they-they said I used...
would go around

and say that's
what I was going to do.

But, you know, I came up...

-Music was as important to me
as acting was. -Yeah.

-You used to dance, too.
-I actually did when I got to CalArts,

because I went to an art school,

and you had to take classes
in another métier.

-Mm-hmm.
-So I was in the theater school,

but in order to get
your accreditation

to get your degree,
you had to take...

on Wednesdays, which was
critical studies days,

you had to take other classes.

And so if you're
a theater actor,

you had to take dance
or you had to take film

or you had to take animation.

You had to take something
of the other disciplines.

But that was... I mean, out
of the gate that was the one?

-It was always theater?
It was always... -No. No, no, no. It was...

Like, so, all through when
I went to elementary school,

junior high school, high school,
I played sax,

-I sang in the choir.
I was heavy into music. -Damn.

And when I graduated
from, uh, from co...

from high school,
I got into a couple schools

to study jazz
and instrumental jazz

and vocal jazz, and got
some scholarships to do that,

and then also got
some acting scholarships.

And I think
I made a weather choice.

That's not true.

I made a weather choice,
and I also made a work choice.

'Cause I knew how hard
I was going to have to grind

-to be the kind of musician
I wanted to be. -Mm-hmm.

'Cause I knew
the music I appreciated

was at such a high level,

and I played with such really
good players, I was, like...

Now, honestly, Don,

I had no idea
that you played the saxophone

-and that you were
that heavy into music. -Yeah.

Was... is that a...
is that a family thing?

-Like, was that embedded to you
from the family? You just... No.

-Well, from their tastes,
you know? -Okay.

It's from, like,
digging in my parents' records

and finding Miles Davis records
and finding Cannonball Adderley

and John Coltrane
and Charles Mingus

and all these players that just,
for whatever reason,

I gravitated toward jazz
and toward that music.

And I just started playing sax,
and I had a really good ear.

And that's kind of...
I just took off like that.

Now the vest makes sense.

Right? Like at first
it didn't make sense.

-It's just corny and weird.
-No, but now...

-Yeah. I get it.
-And now you're, like, "Yeah, 'cause you're a jazz nerd."

-Yeah. Well,
I'm not gonna say a jazz n... -Seems like that was implied.

I don't, I don't use
the word "nerd," first of all...

-Right. You say "spikot."
-Okay. What are we doing here?

-I don't know.
-I'm not here to...

I'm trying
to follow your lead, Kevin.

-I'm not here
to attack you, Don. -Feels... Okay.

-I'm not attacking you, Don.
-It's fine.

You're my friend. You just
told me you played jazz.

I'm blown away.

There was a moment
when you said it, I sat back.

-Right. Yeah. Right.
-That's what I did.

Back to the questions, Don.

-Uh, when you say
you went to school, right? -Mm-hmm.

You then made the choice,

you made the choice,
you made the switch.

Well, how does Don Cheadle
somehow make the transition

to his first big opportunity?

What-what was the...
what was the breaking point?

-Hmm.
-What was the... what was that thing

that acted as a segue to,
"Oh, my God..."?

-I could do this.
-"I'm gonna do it,

and I got a chance
to really be successful at it."

My third year-- funny--
my third year in college,

my friend, uh, on an open call
got cast on the show "Fame."

Unlike... Out of 3,000 people,
he and Nia Peeples were cast.

Jesse Borrego,
who played Jesse Velasquez,

-I think, on the show.
-Okay.

So that was my third year
in school.

And then we took him
to go meet an agent,

because he had to get an agent
to do his contract and all that.

And that agent
met me and my friend,

and went,
"Oh, I want to rep you guys."

We were still in college,
and she kind of took me

as a pocket...
a, uh, pocket client.

-Wow.
-Name's Kay Liberman. And she would send me out,

-and, you know, I heard 500 noes
before I heard a yes. -Yeah, of course. Of course.

And then I got, uh, cast,
like, I got Taft-Hartley'd,

which you can explain
to the people,

'cause you're smart--
I could, but it's your show.

-I don't want to take over.
-Do you want me to explain it?

-I mean, you could,
If you want to. -Here's the thing,

I could definitely do it,

but, Don,
here's the problem with that:

I'm not highlighting my guests.

-If you do it. Right.
-Yes. I have a guest here.

I'm not gonna take
the opportunity to-to explain...

-Yeah. Why would you?
-what would sound so amazing coming from you.

Exactly, and-and that's
why you're Kevin Hart.

You give them a breakdown
as to what that is, Don.

Okay. When you're Taft-Hartley'd
in the business,

it means that a producer...

A producer is willing--
go ahead, finish.

-Oh, you want...?
-No. Go ahead, finish.

Okay. A producer
is willing to pay a fee

-to the Screen Actors Guild
to say that -Say...

-this person is so...
-So exceptional, yeah.

that they have to be
in this role.

-We can't find anybody else.
-We can't find nobody.

We need Don Cheadle.
We got to have Kevin Hart.

We need Don Cheadle.
So we're going to pay a fee.

-Yeah.
-So, um, I was Taft-Hartley'd

-in, uh...
-Yeah. By the way, it...

You said it. 'Cause I would've
I would've said it differently.

-Did I not say it...?
-Well, I just would've said it differently.

You would've stitched it
together a little differently.

I would've summarized it and
tightened it up a little bit!

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You would've tightened it up.

-Maybe with editing,
y'all can... -No need.

It came from you.
It came from you.

All right.
I feel bad now a little bit.

That's good.
That's a good breakdown of it.

Okay, I'm-a shake that off
and just...

-(laughing)
-just go on to the next thing.

So... I was...

I was Taft-Hartley'd for
the film "Moving Violations,"

-Mm-hmm.
-which was masterful.

-Mm-hmm.
-Don't... do not go watch that.

You sure? You don't want...

-do you want the people
to go see it? -Do not... don't watch that.

-Okay.
-So I got Taft-Hartley'd in that,

and that was my junior year
in school.

And I... so I got that gig.

How old are you?
How old are you now?

-19.
-Okay.

-20, maybe.
-Okay.

How old are you in college?
I went to college...

I started 18,
that was 17, 18, 19, I was 20.

Is that a shot at me
because I didn't go to school?

-I wasn't trying to attack...
-You know I didn't go to school.

-Kevin.
-You know I didn't go to school.

Why would I...
why would I, on your show,

bring up
something embarrassing...

You know that
I didn't go to school.

...and that also explains
so much

-about why you would say a word
like "spigot" as "spikot." -Wow.

-Wow, that's... I'm sorry
-Why would I do that to you?

that I have a community college
education, Don.

No, I wasn't trying to...
I wasn't trying...

Are we here to attack?

I was not trying to throw you
under the dumb bus.

-Oh, wow.
-I wouldn't do that.

-And there it is!
-What? You suggested it.

And there it is.

-Kevin.
-There it is!

Do you want me
to finish the story?

-Yeah. Go ahead, finish.
-Are you... are we cool?

-Can I comprehend it?
-(sighs): Man, I wasn't... Yeah, man.

-All right. Go ahead.
-And good use of the word "comprehend."

-You used it...
-I got lucky.

-(both chuckling)
-You went for it,

and you got it
right in the bull's-eye.

-I got very lucky.
I got very lucky, Don. -Good job, bro.

-Thank you, man.
-Good job.

Um, so I was cast in that movie,

and then the next year
I graduated

and started going out and, uh...

I didn't stay in town,
because my friend Jesse

was traveling around
doing theater

all around the country.

So I went to New York
and I did a play,

and I went to Chicago
and I did a play,

and I worked in Minneapolis
at the Guthrie,

and my agent was like,

"You know that pilot season
happens here."

"You know
they don't shoot TV shows.

-You've got to be here."
-You got to be in Los Angeles. Mm-hmm.

I was like,
"Well, I could be here,

"or I could go do this dope play
in Minneapolis

and really, like,
just work, you know?"

'Cause I could be here
and maybe get something,

or I can definitely
go do that job.

So after about
three or four years,

I was like, "Okay,
I'll sit here and try to...

try to actually get something."

And I never got a show,
but it was at that time,

-as you know, that you could get
good guest spots. -Mm-hmm.

So I did all those shows:
"Hill Street Blues"

-Mm-hmm.
-And "L.A. Law," and, you know, "Hooperman."

-Just all of these shows.
-You started to make your rounds.

You got familiar
with the casting agents.

-Exactly.
-You got familiar with studios, studio heads, et cetera.

All that. And they loved us,
because I had...

I graduated from school with
about three or four brothers

that were, like, my same type.

And we would just bum-rush
all the auditions together.

-You were...
-So if I had an audition, We'd all go together.

Without even having an audition,
you guys would just show up.

We'd sometimes
just show up and hang out,

and they were just like,
"You guys are cool."

And then
when we'd have an audition,

any of us that had an audition,
the other people would come.

-Wow.
-And they'd be like, "You know if he gets it,

you can't get it."
And we just had a philosophy,

like, "Well, he can't...
Bruce can't get my part.

Glenn, I can't get
Glenn's part."

But we all are sharing
the money.

-So one of us has to get it.
-Wow.

* *

* *

When Don Cheadle gets that
first big break, now, right?

You've been through the grind.
And by the way, when you...

when you talked
about theater just now,

it's crazy to hear you talk
about it the way that you did,

-Mm-hmm.
-because it's almost along the same lines as stand-up comedy.

Right? With the hustle
of comedy clubs and, you know,

wanting what acts as the real
work versus the hypothetical.

To where you're like, "No, I
need to sacrifice for a minute.

"Shut it down. Let me
go knock out these auditions.

-Right.
-"Let me take the gamble of actually trying to stay true

to the grind and seeing
if I can book something."

I mean, honestly,
I think it j...

I-I've been so fortunate
and lucky and blessed

and every word you want to use
in that sort of family,

because it literally
just started to... I start...

I just started to get stuff,

and one thing would lead
to the next,

and one thing would lead
to the next. I wasn't...

-And I would still leave
every summer and go do theater. -Mm-hmm.

I'd go do a play
at Mixed Blood in Minneapolis,

and then I'd come back
and I'd, you know,

do a small part in a movie,
and then I'd go...

So I was... I was constantly
going back and forth

and doing that,
and collecting unemployment,

which was how it worked,
you know?

You do a gig,
you collect your check,

then that would run out...

And California acted
as your residence?

-Yeah.
-Through the whole time?

-Yeah.
-That's smart.

-Yeah. That was what...
-That's very smart.

that's what we did.

I went
to professional waiter school,

which was on Gower,
Hollywood and Gower.

Um, and the day I graduated--

and I graduated with honors,
by the way.

I would have been
an amazing waiter.

What-what was your GPA
in waiter school? I mean...

-I don't know. It was high.
-It was high.

-It was...
it was one of the best. -It was high.

-What made Don Cheadle
a good waiter? -I'd love to show you,

but I don't want
to embarrass your sommelier.

Why are you attacking that man?

You are super sensitive
right now

about, like, what are attacks.

I didn't attack him.

I said I don't want
to embarrass him.

Maybe you don't know
what the word "don't" means.

Oh, back to
my community college education.

-It's a callback.
-I mean, when does it stop?

-It's a callback.
-This is why you say no.

This is the reverse
of what type A drugs can do.

-Whoa.
-Okay?

-Class A.
-Goddamn it, I messed it up.

See? You keep leaning
into the dumb thing.

I'm so stupid.

(laughing)

-Um...
-I'm so dumb.

-Yeah, man.
-Uh, no. Was it charm?

Was it personality?
Like, what...

Is that... that pretty much
is what makes the...

-the good waiter?
-I think it was reps.

Oh, of... of the waiter.

-Yeah.
-Oh, we were going back to the waiter thing.

Yes. I wanted to know
what made you a good waiter.

It was paying attention.

It was that I had good recall.

'Cause, you know,
you're not supposed to repeat

people's order
when they give you the order.

You're just supposed
to lock that in.

Try it. Tell me what you want.

-Okay.
-Mr. Hart.

-This is the menu?
-Mm-hmm.

Yeah. This place
a piece of shit.

I don't even know
why we're eating here, honey.

-I would not work...
-Excuse me. Excuse me.

All right.
The customer is always right.

-I don't know what I'm doing.
-Which is...

I've almost blown it
right away.

You want to call this place
a piece of shit?

You sure you want to eat here?

All right.

Uh, I'm gonna take two PBJs.

(laughing):
This place is a piece of shit.

Cut... cut the corners off
on my bread.

I don't like the corners
on my bread, so cut that off.

-Yes, sir.
-Uh, also...

Oh, this is good.
This is really good.

I'm gonna take two
of your Wheat Thins.

-Yeah.
-Would you like them inside the PBJ, sir?

-Uh, no.
-It gives it an extra zest.

No. I don't want that, okay?

-I don't know why you guys
would even do that. -Sometimes we do it.

People come in,
they want things like that.

But I will take raisins
and put them on my PBJ.

-On top of the bread or inside?
-Inside. Lightly toasted.

The raisins you want toasted?

Yes. What did I order?

You ordered a PBJ
with the crusts off of it,

two orders of Wheat Thins,

and, uh, raisins roasted lightly

inside of your PBJ.

Fuckin' show-off.

Ask me what side of the table
I'd serve you from.

-What side of the table?
-The left.

The left side? (laughs)

Why? Why the left, Don? What...?

'Cause that's the fucking side.

(laughing)

-That's why, Kevin.
-Okay.

-'Cause that's the side.
-That's the side. Okay.

All right. That's...
I learned something new.

And now you see why I went
to the top of the class

and I was like...
"Sir. Sir.

-Yeah. Yeah.
-Thank you." And they gave me...

they call you in the back
after you graduate,

the dude calls you in the back--
it's very "Godfather"-esque.

He's behind a desk,
and he sits there--

this is dead-ass serious--

and you walk in,
and he's like, "Good job."

(laughing)

"Thank you."
"No, you were really exemplary.

"Really good.
You remembered things.

You... came from the left."

"You did it all."
"Thank you."

And he'd go...

He'd open a little drawer
and he'd reach in,

and he'd pull out
some three-by-five cards.

He'd go...

"Spago. You're gonna want
to talk to Nick.

"Don't call him Nick.
He goes by Nicholas.

"You're gonna want to talk
to Nicholas.

"He's got something for you.

"Ivy by the Sea.

Take that one. Jim."

You'd be like, "Oh."
You had two tips.

You'd, uh, you'd kiss the ring,
which was like a...

-a small hamburger,
and then on your way. -You'd leave.

But it was a big deal
to get those...

-Are you kidding me?
-A huge deal. Yeah.

-Dude.
-In L.A., these are big spots.

-Great tips coming
from these spots. I get it. -Come on.

-I get it.
-You'd walk out, and they'd be like,

"What did he tell you?"
You'd be like, "Eh."

I love it, because this is
what people just don't know.

-Who would know that?
-This is what people don't know.

This is why I don't do a lot.

Because these stories
would come out.

Now I got to walk around

knowing that people
might know that about me.

So you don't want people
to ever know.

"What's up, Waiter?"
Like, come on, man.

Have you ever...
have you ever felt the need

to bring it up,
like, in conversation?

-At dinner sometimes,
when the waiter's shitty. -At dinner?

You'd be like,
"What are you doing, man?"

Yeah, no, you're not...
you're not even...

"Excuse me, sir?"
I order, I'm like, "Watch.

Chicken mar..."

You got the, like,
I'm-a get him, I'm-a catch him.

Watch this.

"Chicken Marsala."

-"Chicken Marsala."
"See? You see? He repeated it." -Why would he repeat that?

-Why would he repeat...
-Why would you do that? Come on, man. Dude, come on.

-You didn't go
to professional waiter school. -You didn't go to school.

-Did you go to school?
-You're just some bum off the street,

just gonna walk in here
and throw on an apron

and think you could...

You're not this.
You're not this.

You'll never make it to Spago.

-That's why we're at Denny's
right now, bro. -Oh, God. Oh, God.

* *

* *

I want to talk to you
about the amazing people

that you've had the opportunity
to work with, man.

-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
-Such a crazy... a crazy list

-Yeah.
-of amazing actors and actresses.

Uh, who has blown
Don Cheadle away?

So many. So many of them.

Uh...

-Phil Hoffman.
-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

-CHEADLE: Amazing, obviously.
-Mm-hmm.

-CHEADLE: I mean,
Denzel, of course. -Mm-hmm.

Uh, Benicio del Toro.

Was there something crazy
about these actors

that just really had you like,

"Oh, my God,"
or was it just the talent?

Well, they're all
very different,

and they're all very,
uh... unique.

-Um, and all very serious
about their work -Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

and what they want to achieve,
and are all, you know,

-writers and-and directors.
-Mm-hmm.

And I think that
as I've, you know,

gone further and further along
in the business,

I think those are the
best actors that you bump into.

-Mm-hmm.
-People that are multi-hyphenate.

Even if they're not doing it
out there in the place

that they're getting credit
for it, but they're very...

they understand story.

They're very, you know,
clear about setting up scenes

and narrative and-and editing
and all aspects of storytelling

that are, you know, the whole...
this whole milieu.

And you can understand that
they know what they're doing.

And they're also
not just about themselves.

-Mm. Mm-hmm.
-That's another thing.

You know, they're thinking
about what would make

the entire project better,

what makes
the entire story better.

Not just, like,
"How can I shine?"

-Mm-hmm.
-So those are always the best experiences I have with actors,

in film, TV, plays, whatever.

We're all just trying to get to
the best answer for the thing.

Not just trying to figure out

how to make it the best for me,
you know?

Is that...
Who-who inspires you?

Because, you know,
you just got finished talking

about writing, producing,
directing, acting.

You know, you're now checking
those boxes.

-Mm-hmm.
-You're now directing, you know?

Uh, you're now...
always have been,

a part of the creative
and writing,

-Right.
-but I know that producing hat is on as well.

-Yeah.
-Who-who inspired you to start to put on all of those hats?

Well, dude, it was the...
it was still the hustle game.

I always wanted to be
eminently hirable.

-Wow.
-So I wanted to know how to do anything that we...

how to participate
in any part of this business.

You know, for me,
like, downtime during...

I worked with Warren Beatty.

We did "Bulworth."
And Vittorio Storaro,

-who is his DP, who's one
of the most amazing DPs, is... -Huge.

-Huge.
-Mm-hmm.

And so when they'd say "cut,"

I'd go sit next to Vittorio,
'cause I wanted to see

how he was lighting.

I wanted to understand
his philosophy about lighting

-and what it meant to be a DP.
-In school.

-Always in school.
Always in school. -You're in school.

I'm a firm believer that
you're in school all the time.

-Yeah, if...
you should be paying attention. -You're in school all the time.

-There's no reason for you
not to be paying attention -Yeah. Yeah.

-when you can do it
for free, right? -Exactly.

If I got the opportunity to be
attached to a huge director,

a huge DP, well, I don't need
to ask a thousand questions,

-I can just really be a fly
on the wall and truly watch. -Yep.

-Yep.
-I can watch, and I'm supposed to pick up something

-from that project, something
from those individuals. -Mm-hmm.

-Mm-hmm.
-When I leave, I should have a piece of something

-Yeah.
-that I carry with me to the next thing.

-For sure.
-Knowledge, cadence, whatever it may be.

-I should have left
that brief moment of school-- -Mm-hmm.

or long moment of school--
with a good piece of education

-that I can then share
and do something with. -No doubt. No doubt.

And that's what it sounds like
you were doing as well.

And we're in a unique position,
because, as performers,

we're at the cen... we're
at the hub of all of that.

-Yes. You're right
in the middle. -So you, you know,

so you get to sit there
and watch

how everybody does
the thing that they're doing.

And, like you said, if you're...
if you're paying attention,

if you are in school and
thinking about it in that way,

you get to learn a lot of stuff.

You know what I mean? And-and
you're... then you're an asset.

Then you're, you know,
you're value-added,

-not just 'cause you're
a performer, -Strong.

but you-you'll be able
to help the director

and go, "I don't think
we need that to that."

And they're
like, "What do you know?"

And I'm like "Well, I know
that this, that and this."

And they're like, "Oh, good.
You just saved us two hours."

Key word you said is
you're an "asset."

You're-you're value.
You're not an asshole.

You're an asset.
The suggestion...

-That's weird.
-Well, I'm saying...

-It's wei... No, I hear...
Okay, go ahead. -When I... when I say that,

I'm saying a lot of the times

the actor that talks
to the director,

they can be perceived as the guy
that wants to do it all.

But I'm saying,
when you understand,

like you just said,
you're an... you're an asset.

But I don't...
No one even said "asshole."

Yeah, but I'm saying,
'cause there was a thing

that was "floating around"
about Don Cheadle,

-and I've deaded it
several times. -Oh, oh. Oh.

I've put it...
I've stepped on it

-every single time
I've heard it. -Oh. Every single time?

Every single time I've heard,
"Don Cheadle's an asshole,"

I've... I've stepped on it.

How many... how...
That's a thing?

Not anymore. You're welcome.

Right?
'Cause that's what friends do.

Friends...
friends put out fires.

* *

* *

You are now in the world
of Marvel, right?

DON:
Mm-hmm.

KEVIN: This is
a real question for you.

-Mm-hmm.
-Uh...

a lot of people have said

the world of Marvel is amazing

until you're in it
and you can't get out of it.

They say it's amazing
until you're in this machine,

and when you're in this machine,

the machine doesn't want
to let you out.

It does not want
to let you out.

-That's a better statement.
I don't think you're trapped. -Mm-hmm.

-Okay.
-Because we know.

You could, you could always go,
like, "I'm out."

-Okay.
-But yeah, you're...

it's... it's kind of
the Mafia sometimes, too,

where they're like,
"Uh, you've been activated,

and we need you here
in November."

You're like,
"Oh, but I was doing a thing."

They're like,
"Yeah, you was doing a thing.

-See you in November."
-What was the longest?

What was your longest shoot?

-Over... over five months.
-Jesus.

-Not at home.
-And no back-and-forth at the time?

-Yeah. A lot of back-and-forth.
-Lot of back-and-forth.

Too many back-and-forth.
You know what I mean?

So it's, like,
you're really trying to go,

"Am I just gonna go move here

"and, like, be here for this
time and just figure out

how to live here
during this downtime?"

You know, I have pets,
and I got, you know,

-my family's here.
-A life.

-I want to say, I have a life.
-You got a real life.

-Yeah.
-There's a lot of things going on at home.

So that's not always, to me,

that's sort of the golden noose
of it all.

And that's the blessing
and the curse of it all.

Because we're very fortunate,
obviously,

to be able to create these
opportunities for ourselves

and for our kids
and be in a position

for the first time in my family,
probably in your family,

-Mm-hmm.
-to have a shot at whatever

-this "generational wealth"
thing means, -Mm-hmm.

and have annuities
and put things aside

so that, you know,
when we're not here,

people are taken care of,
and hopefully it lasts

more than just one generation.

Um, but at the same time,
like I said...

And me, you know,
I'm 56 years old.

Damn!

I'm sorry.

-I'm sorry. 'Cause I...
it was a thought... -It's all right.

-No, no, seriously.
It was a thought... -Dude, I don't care.

It was a thought
and I blurted it out.

-I'm fine. I'm not... I'm fine.
-I did not mean it that way.

-I'm not...
-Okay, but just understand.

-I didn't mean it
the way it came out. -(stammers)

We'll take a poll
on how you meant it

with people here later,
after the show's over, but...

I can sit up here
and honestly say, buddy,

-that that was
from a place of love. -Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Got it.

-Like, damn! Like, damn.
-Oh, that was from...

You didn't... If we
could play it back right now...

-Play it back.
-These are two different damns.

-Play it back in slow motion.
-There wasn't no...

-I said, I said...
-"Damn." It wasn't...

-there was no, like,
"Wow, that's-that's amazing." -I said, "Damn."

No, you said the word "damn."

-Do you want me to tell you
how you said it? -I know how I said it, Don.

-Do you want me to say it back
to you how I think you said it? -Go ahead.

-Damn!
-Not-not true.

-Fam.
-Not true.

-Fam.
-I said...

-Kevin.
-I said...

(quietly):
"Damn it."

Each time you've said it now
it's gotten quieter and quieter.

I could barely hear you
that last time when you said it.

Well, that means that
you can barely hear the truth.

So who has
the problem here, Don? Hmm?

-Who has the problem?
-(laughing)

-Maybe 56 is catching up.
-You're amazing,

the way
you "Nadia Comaneci" things

and just flip them...

-Oh, I know what
you just did there. -straight around.

The way
I "Nada-coti-noma-diche." Huh?

-Hmm?
-Uh-oh. Does he not know who that is?

-KEVIN: The way
I "Nada Camaneci" it? -DON: Yeah.

KEVIN:
He thinks he's the only one that can "Nada-cama-niche" it.

-What are you talking about?
-You don't think I know what "Nama Cama-niche" is?

What what is?

You heard me.

-Yeah, okay.
-Yeah.

-56, though.
Let's get back to it. -Yeah. Damn.

Still here. Still kicking.
Still walking.

Knees are still working.
No noise.

-Right?
-(stifled laugh)

Right?

-Can you see
without your glasses? -No, there's some noise.

Can you see
without your glasses?

-Are you at a point where...
-These aren't real, Kevin.

-Whoa.
-I put these on to appear smart.

We're gonna cut this part out.

-You might need...
-I'm not gonna let this fly.

-you might need some of these
to appear smart. -This part...

this part won't make
the interview,

because you're my friend.

Do you want to see
if it makes you appear smart?

They match your...
they match your suit.

-Put a star next to this part,
-Here.

-'cause it's not gonna make it.
-Here, try these.

See? Look how smart you look.
Goddamn.

(whoops) Professor Hart.

-"Nada Comaneci."
-Good. Wow!

-Could you do something for me?
-Yes, sir.

Could you pick up
your wine glass and do that?

Can I pick up a wine glass?

Can a cherry get popped
in a picnic?

-And now "Nada Comaneci"
with that hand. -Huh? Huh? Come on, now.

Don't do this to me.
'Cause that's what you did.

Whoa.

Oh, my God.

(laughing)

I don't think
I love a person more, man.

I don't think I love
a person more.

-That was amazing.
-Don, you're 56, though? Seriously?

-Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
-I had no idea you were 56, man.

The next one for me is:
you've done so much,

you've played
so many different roles,

so many different characters,

and you said something,
While talking about Marvel,

you were like, "Yo, you know,
going away for five months,

"that's a lot, man.
Being away from my family.

I got a life.
I got real things."

-Mm-hmm.
-And you said, uh,

that's the... that, for you,

is the key component
to making decisions.

-Yes.
-Uh, another real question is how long...

how long has that been?

When did you get to a point
to where you can make decisions

based off of your time

and-and your time being
taken away

from your family?

This is literally
the conversation I've had

every day or every other day,

because you start asking
yourself, "What is it for?"

-Do you know what I'm saying?
-Mm-hmm.

It's, like, we've been
so accustomed to hustling,

so accustomed to being
on that hamster wheel

and looking at every opportunity
as an opportunity

to make the most
out of this thing,

that we sometimes
don't factor in, like I said.

You still have
to bring "you" to that.

-Mm-hmm.
-It's not like you can just be like, "Yeah give me that."

They're like,
"We're gonna give you that,

-"but you got to be here
and show up at 5:00, -Mm-hmm.

"and you got to...
you'll get home at 8:00."

It doesn't work without you.

-It doesn't work without you.
-Absolutely.

So there is a cost to that.
You're remunerated.

They're paying you.
There's an exchange.

It makes sense on paper.
But, really,

how much do you want and do
you have in the tank to give?

And it's like I realized when
I really took some downtime

this last year
for the first time,

took some months off,
not just not working,

-but, like, vacationing.
-Mm-hmm.

Like, really going someplace
and sitting down

and not doing anything
and swimming in the ocean

-and-and going to the gym
every day, -Enjoying life.

-eating right,
just enjoying life. -Mm-hmm.

I need, now, to have stuff
that's really good,

-working with people
I really want to work with, -Mm-hmm.

directors I really admire,
scripts that are really good.

So that when I...
so I can work hard,

-and then I can drop that
and let it go, -Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

and recharge my battery
to come back to that.

You can truly give a
thousand percent into this thing

because you want to do it,

you care about it.
your effort's there.

Yeah. Because I have
something to give,

-because I've taken time off,
-Mm-hmm.

and that's a...
that's a new thing for me.

* *

* *

At what point
did you make the decision

to use your platform to be
as vocal as you have been,

uh, within politics,

-Within, you know,
the injustices -Mm-hmm.

that are going on
and have been going on

for quite some time now?

After last year, after 2020,
if you're gonna keep talking,

I don't know how you would
possibly talk about anything

-and not talk about
what was going on in the world. -Exactly.

You're just... you're
just skirting around things.

And so, you know, I've always...

I've always tried to use
the platform,

use the microphone
that's stuck in front of my face

and the cameras on me
to do a version

of what Brad Pitt
always talked about,

like: We can't get
out of the light,

-and these other people
can't get in the light. -Wow.

-So when you're pointing it...
-Strong.

-You know what I mean?
-Yeah.

He's like: I can't get away
from these people,

and these people can't get
anyone to listen to them,

so when you're talking to me,
I'm gonna go: Okay, cool, cool,

cool, now look over there,
now talk to them,

-Mm-hmm.
-now pay attention to that.

And it just...
you know, people ask me,

"Do you feel obligated
to do that?"

And I don't know
if that's the right word.

But I do know that, given
the opportunity that we have,

that very few people have,
it's, like...

use your platform for...

for something,
because all of us, I believe,

have the responsibility
and the obligation

to try to leave this place
better than when we got here.

-Mm-hmm.
-I mean, if you can.

And I think it's never
been clearer than last year

that the inequality is so great,

and the inequity is so...

is so pervasive,
and the only way it changes

is if people in position are
willing to put theirself at risk

and be out there,
you know what I mean?

We were... I was...
we were out there,

and I was glad to be out there
with my kids last year.

I was glad to be at
the protests with my kids.

-You said kids, Don.
How many kids you got? -Yes. I have two...

-Two beautiful kids.
-Um, 20s. They're not kids now.

-They're 26 and 24.
They're grown human beings. -Grown. Good. There you go.

I love that you are who you are.

There is no change.
Outside of the asshole thing.

-I was getting ready to say.
-Which I deaded.

Which I deaded.
So you're not gonna hear...

I mean, we don't have to do it
on the show,

but it would be...
I would love to know, like,

A) how many instances
of-of Asshole Don Cheadle...

-I don't have a number. 13?
I don't know. -"I don't have a number.

-13."
-13. I don't have a number, but if you...

-"I don't have a number,"
comma, "13." -13. 13.

-"I don't have a number,"
semicolon, "13." -I don't have a number. 13.

What don't you understand?

-I don't know. 13.
-No, I do understand it.

It just seemed like
the sentence,

-when you put both of the pieces
of it together... -Don. Don, stop.

I don't want to end
a great conversation

-on a bad note, right?
-Yeah.

-It's an amazing interview.
-Thank you.

You're 56 years old--
who knows when....

You know. It's right there.

Who knows when what?

"You're right th..."
What are you saying?

What am I saying?

I'll know
if you finish the sentence.

-What do you mean, "Who knows?"
-You know.

Im talking about
you knocking on the door.

-What door?
-Come on.

Did you just look up
into the sky?

I'm saying that this is
a moment

that I'm gonna value forever,
because...

Because "who knows"?

Who knows? Right?

Am I looking out for you or not?

-I feel like
I don't want to pound on that. -Come on.

Come on, man. That's my guy.

Damn it, Don,
we learned so much.

Um, a question that I got to ask
before we wrap things up:

What else does
Don Cheadle want to do?

-Not die.
-I never said...

you were talking about death?!

What were you talking about?!

I'm talking about who knows
if I'm gonna see you!

-We gonna go to dinner?
-Oh, shit.

-Drink wine?
-It sound like...

Up in the sky?

Don, it's a restaurant
above where we are!

That's the fucking biggest lie
you've told

-since we sat down here.
-Oh, my God, you...

You were talking
about me dying, dawg.

Don, you've never eaten
at Earth and Heaven?

It's right above us!

We're gonna...
we're going straight upstairs

-as soon as this is over.
-Okay. That means that I do know now.

I-- There better be
a restaurant.

-What? I can't...
you were talking about death?! -There better be a...

there better be a restaurant
up there.

-You tried to kill
yourself today. -There'd better be...

Earth and Heaven,
and they'd better have a seat.

-Earth and Heaven is
amazing food. -Okay.

-We'll both go up there and get
something when we're done. -Okay.

All right. What else does, uh,
Don Cheadle want to do?

What haven't you done?

There's a lot of people
I'd like to work with.

God, there's so many.

We'll get there.

-We just got to find something.
-I mean, there's, like...

-there's a part, there's
a movie that I'm working on. -Yeah.

And there's a part in it,
the dude plays...

he's, like, a younger brother.

The part is funny.

-Dude has to be, like,
good-looking, classy... -Come on, now.

-You know what I mean?
-Come on, now.

-And, um...
-Bring it home.

I know LaKeith is available,

and I did put him
in my movie "Miles Ahead."

But I would love...
Did you see...

did you see
"Judas and the Black Messiah?"

-Yeah.
-He killed that, didn't he?

-Yeah, but I...
-Did you see "One Night in Miami?"

-"One Night." Great movie.
-Any of those dudes.

Aldis Hodge, Leslie Odom, Jr.

All would, like, right in there.

And they're not... they're...

-people don't know
how funny those dudes are. -Well...

'Cause most people
would be like,

"Get somebody
who everybody knows is funny."

But the thing
about a part like that is,

when you use somebody that
not everybody knows is funny,

then they have an opportunity
to surprise people,

and it's even a bigger
experience for the audience.

Totally got that.
But do you know what?

-I owe you one. I owe you.
-What do you mean?

'Cause you came...
you came on my talk show, right?

-Yeah.
-So I owe you one.

So if you want me to do it,
I'll do it.

-Oh, do the movie
I'm talking about? -Yeah, I'll do it.

-Ah...
-If you want me to do it...

Hey, hey. Look at me.

-Say you want me to do it.
-I mean...

-If you want me, just say it.
-Yeah. I mean...

-Just say it. I'll do it.
-I... Yeah, I mean...

All it takes
is for you to say it.

Come on, now.

Come on, man. You know...

-All right. Are we...
Am I doing it? -Huh?

-Am I gonna do it?
-The movie?

-Yeah.
-I mean...

Maybe we get back to it.
Maybe you and...

We'll talk about it
at Earth and Heaven.

Oh, ain't this a bitch.

Yeah. We'll talk about it
at Earth and Heaven.

-Ain't this about a bitch.
-Yeah, I'll serve you from the left.

Well, touché.
Well played, Don Cheadle.

-That's a callback, Kevin.
-Well played.

In the parlance,
we call that a callback.

Well played, Mr. Cheadle.
Ladies and gentlemen,

I don't think it gets
any better than this.

That concludes
our conversation, Don.

Thank God. I thought
that shit would never end.

Wait. First of all,
we're still rolling.

Whoa. My bad.

God!

That concludes our episode
with Don Cheadle.

What an amazing episode it was.

This is "Hart to Heart."

This man has a good one.
For now.

(laughing):
We're back to that?

(both laughing)

-I love you, man.
-Love you, man.

-I love you, man.
-Thank you, dude.

-Oh, my God.
-That was awesome.

* *

I love to give life antidotes.

Today's antidote
is quite the doozy.

Your feet have no purpose
without concrete.

What I'm saying is,
the steps you take

could be important,
ultimately depends on what?

What you ate for breakfast.

Get a good one, people.

It's time to go. (laughing)

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