Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:01:26,962 --> 00:01:29,464
Sharpen the long knives
2
00:01:29,673 --> 00:01:31,967
Sharpen the long knives
3
00:01:32,175 --> 00:01:36,555
Sharpen the long knives
On the paving stone
4
00:01:37,055 --> 00:01:39,391
So that they go better
5
00:01:39,808 --> 00:01:41,977
So that they go better
6
00:01:42,394 --> 00:01:46,356
So that they go better
Into the Jewish belly
7
00:01:52,696 --> 00:01:57,701
As boys we thought nothing
of singing these songs.
8
00:01:57,909 --> 00:01:59,828
Isn't that terrible?
9
00:02:26,188 --> 00:02:32,277
I once flew over Buchenwald
with my squadron.
10
00:02:32,653 --> 00:02:37,366
We intentionally flew low,
11
00:02:37,783 --> 00:02:40,160
so we could see into the camp.
12
00:02:40,786 --> 00:02:44,998
And we asked ourselves,
13
00:02:45,582 --> 00:02:48,251
"What is happening in Buchenwald?"
14
00:03:01,973 --> 00:03:06,895
And we heard things
that you could scarcely believe.
15
00:03:07,396 --> 00:03:12,984
I was on leave with my brother-in-law.
16
00:03:14,277 --> 00:03:17,823
He told me that he had witnessed
17
00:03:18,156 --> 00:03:23,495
Germans from various units
18
00:03:23,829 --> 00:03:30,752
shooting Jews in huge pits
and burying them.
19
00:03:31,586 --> 00:03:36,049
He showed us the photos.
20
00:03:36,299 --> 00:03:39,094
I said, "Is this Germany?"
21
00:04:26,641 --> 00:04:29,561
This is a provincial commuter town.
22
00:04:31,605 --> 00:04:34,858
This place makes me feel
really aggressive. I don't know why.
23
00:04:38,278 --> 00:04:39,279
How is your father?
24
00:04:39,404 --> 00:04:41,698
He's well. He's better than I am.
25
00:04:50,290 --> 00:04:53,752
"Nazi Party Census."
26
00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:56,463
Here it says "Blood Order."
27
00:04:57,339 --> 00:04:59,591
-Blood Order.
-Or is it crossed out?
28
00:04:59,716 --> 00:05:01,968
-What is a Blood Order?
-I don't know.
29
00:05:05,972 --> 00:05:11,770
"I was made an SS Stormtrooper
on January 30, 1936."
30
00:05:11,895 --> 00:05:17,150
"On January 10, 1940, I was dispatched
31
00:05:17,567 --> 00:05:21,988
to the SS officers’ school in Dachau."
32
00:05:22,864 --> 00:05:26,952
"I passed with fairly good results."
33
00:05:30,497 --> 00:05:36,670
"Promoted to SS Sergeant Major
on March 1, 1940."
34
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,757
It sounds rather brutal.
35
00:05:51,393 --> 00:05:52,894
Are you seeing this for the first time?
36
00:05:52,978 --> 00:05:56,606
Yes, I didn't know any of this.
37
00:05:58,608 --> 00:06:00,944
I didn't even know
he'd been posted to Dachau.
38
00:06:01,570 --> 00:06:07,075
We were raised in this manner,
"Children may only speak when spoken to."
39
00:06:07,284 --> 00:06:09,536
"They are not allowed to ask questions."
40
00:06:17,502 --> 00:06:19,880
What is a Blood Order?
41
00:06:21,798 --> 00:06:24,217
-Blood bath?
-Blood Order.
42
00:06:25,719 --> 00:06:29,681
It was a political decoration
43
00:06:30,307 --> 00:06:35,812
for participating
in the 1923 Munich Uprising.
44
00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,774
-Did you take part in that?
-No.
45
00:06:41,902 --> 00:06:44,571
You would have only been nine.
46
00:06:46,907 --> 00:06:49,367
And when were you sworn in
at the Feldherrnhalle?
47
00:06:50,076 --> 00:06:53,246
In 1935.
48
00:07:02,756 --> 00:07:05,216
The bells rang all over Germany.
49
00:07:05,967 --> 00:07:08,720
It's hard to imagine that
after Hitler's seizure of power,
50
00:07:08,845 --> 00:07:11,348
the bells rang everywhere in Germany.
51
00:07:13,808 --> 00:07:16,686
My mother voted for Hitler.
52
00:07:16,811 --> 00:07:18,813
My father also voted for Hitler in 1932.
53
00:07:19,022 --> 00:07:22,609
Because of unemployment and inflation.
54
00:07:39,125 --> 00:07:40,794
My older brother
55
00:07:41,544 --> 00:07:46,383
was already a convinced Nazi in 1932.
56
00:07:46,967 --> 00:07:51,846
In 1932, he was 11 years old.
57
00:07:53,098 --> 00:07:59,354
I remember how he showed me
his brass knuckles with spikes.
58
00:08:00,188 --> 00:08:03,066
"Today, we're going to smash
the Communist HQ."
59
00:08:08,405 --> 00:08:13,368
And he photographed Insterburg citizens
who frequented Jewish shops.
60
00:08:14,285 --> 00:08:17,831
And then these pictures were exhibited
at the Insterburg Town Hall.
61
00:08:17,956 --> 00:08:21,334
Pictures of people buying
from Jewish shops.
62
00:08:30,677 --> 00:08:36,391
I attended the local primary school
in 1933, at the age of six.
63
00:08:37,058 --> 00:08:39,561
The teacher was a local party operative.
64
00:08:40,353 --> 00:08:46,526
He raised us according
to the Nazi doctrine.
65
00:08:49,988 --> 00:08:53,491
In the morning, we had to stand up,
and say, "Heil Hitler."
66
00:08:54,242 --> 00:09:00,206
He practically raised me to be a Nazi,
against my parents' wishes.
67
00:09:00,331 --> 00:09:04,544
I trusted my teacher
more than I trusted them.
68
00:09:06,004 --> 00:09:09,466
Our teacher asserted
69
00:09:10,633 --> 00:09:13,595
a strong control over us.
70
00:09:14,971 --> 00:09:17,891
This is my Hitler Youth membership card.
71
00:09:18,558 --> 00:09:24,147
I joined the Jungvolk at the age of ten
72
00:09:24,439 --> 00:09:27,108
and I received this.
73
00:09:28,151 --> 00:09:30,820
I joined on 1st May, 1937.
74
00:09:30,987 --> 00:09:33,531
Before I even turned ten years old.
75
00:09:33,740 --> 00:09:35,241
I just couldn't wait.
76
00:09:57,889 --> 00:10:01,643
When you're ten, 12 years old,
what do you want?
77
00:10:01,851 --> 00:10:05,146
You want to be part of a group
and get out of the house.
78
00:10:05,313 --> 00:10:07,023
We could do sports.
79
00:10:07,107 --> 00:10:11,152
We were allowed to play tennis
on the marine sports field.
80
00:10:11,277 --> 00:10:13,321
We were allowed to use the pool.
81
00:10:13,446 --> 00:10:16,282
We were allowed
to play on the lawn in the park.
82
00:10:16,449 --> 00:10:18,409
Before that,
everything had been forbidden.
83
00:10:49,941 --> 00:10:54,028
My mother was active in the Frauenschaft.
84
00:10:54,195 --> 00:10:57,448
That was the women's organization.
85
00:10:57,657 --> 00:11:01,578
When we went for walks on Sunday,
when I was little,
86
00:11:01,953 --> 00:11:08,293
my father always put on his uniform.
87
00:11:09,502 --> 00:11:11,921
And then we went for a walk.
88
00:11:12,172 --> 00:11:14,132
My mother didn't like this at all.
89
00:11:14,257 --> 00:11:19,679
Women didn't have a uniform,
90
00:11:20,805 --> 00:11:25,226
but he made sure that she wore
the Frauenschaft badge on her coat
91
00:11:25,351 --> 00:11:27,812
so that everyone could see
92
00:11:28,313 --> 00:11:33,484
that they supported Nazi ideology.
93
00:11:50,418 --> 00:11:53,421
I would have liked
to have gotten involved,
94
00:11:53,546 --> 00:11:55,298
but Father said no.
95
00:11:56,257 --> 00:11:59,719
And in the summer of 1933,
96
00:12:00,094 --> 00:12:04,182
they finally said yes.
97
00:12:04,432 --> 00:12:07,227
And I got a brown shirt
98
00:12:07,602 --> 00:12:12,440
and black trousers for my birthday.
99
00:12:12,815 --> 00:12:18,571
And that was in Stendal,
when we visited my grandparents.
100
00:12:19,405 --> 00:12:26,329
They bought the uniform
from a Jewish store.
101
00:12:42,136 --> 00:12:46,224
We did things that we enjoyed.
102
00:12:47,684 --> 00:12:49,435
But that faded.
103
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,439
And when we moved up
104
00:12:54,732 --> 00:12:59,404
to the Hitler Youth at the age of 14…
105
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:05,660
participation was mandatory.
106
00:13:07,036 --> 00:13:09,455
I was in a communications unit,
107
00:13:09,622 --> 00:13:13,501
where we trained as radio operators
at the age of only 15 or 16.
108
00:13:14,419 --> 00:13:19,632
My leader was drafted into the military,
109
00:13:19,757 --> 00:13:22,176
and then suddenly,
I was a Hitler Youth leader.
110
00:13:24,512 --> 00:13:26,306
They found me a bit girlish.
111
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:29,434
I wasn't the right kind of leader
for the Hitler Youth.
112
00:13:32,687 --> 00:13:34,022
We did boxing in the afternoon.
113
00:13:34,147 --> 00:13:39,944
We weren't allowed to stop
until there was blood flowing.
114
00:13:40,737 --> 00:13:44,615
At the end of the week,
the leader spoke to me.
115
00:13:44,907 --> 00:13:47,952
He said, "You don't have what it takes
to be a Hitler Youth leader."
116
00:13:48,077 --> 00:13:49,454
"You're too soft."
117
00:14:13,353 --> 00:14:16,731
From the ages of 10 to 14,
there was the "Jungvolk" organization.
118
00:14:17,106 --> 00:14:19,567
At 14, you joined the Hitler Youth.
119
00:14:21,235 --> 00:14:25,448
For the girls, there was the "Jungmaedel"
and then the BDM.
120
00:14:26,115 --> 00:14:28,034
The Association of German Girls.
121
00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:42,799
A blue skirt, a white blouse,
and a knot made of leather.
122
00:14:42,965 --> 00:14:49,639
It was a triangular neckerchief,
that was held together with the knot.
123
00:14:50,932 --> 00:14:55,978
There were these social evenings,
where we would meet.
124
00:14:56,354 --> 00:15:01,609
Those were evenings where we spoke
about Nazism, about the Führer…
125
00:15:02,110 --> 00:15:08,533
Sometimes we'd talk about parts
of Hitler's Mein Kampf.
126
00:15:30,805 --> 00:15:33,307
We didn't support the Party.
127
00:15:34,142 --> 00:15:36,644
But we liked the uniform.
128
00:15:37,437 --> 00:15:41,691
We went along with it
because we enjoyed it.
129
00:15:41,858 --> 00:15:46,529
Putting on the uniform
and going on marches
130
00:15:46,654 --> 00:15:48,656
or we'd sing, and so on.
131
00:15:49,740 --> 00:15:51,409
Oh, that was lovely!
132
00:15:51,576 --> 00:15:55,455
They were hiking songs,
ones you still sing today.
133
00:15:55,538 --> 00:15:56,998
It was lovely.
134
00:15:58,374 --> 00:16:01,169
Raise the flag!
135
00:16:01,752 --> 00:16:06,007
The ranks tightly closed
136
00:16:06,507 --> 00:16:10,178
The SA marches with calm, steady step
137
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:15,183
Comrades shot by the Red Front
And reactionaries
138
00:16:15,850 --> 00:16:19,729
March in spirit within our ranks
139
00:17:08,528 --> 00:17:15,117
We had the task of standing guard
in front of a Jewish department store.
140
00:17:15,535 --> 00:17:18,329
And us little boys, I was just nine,
141
00:17:18,663 --> 00:17:22,250
we had to line up
in front of this Jewish shop
142
00:17:22,917 --> 00:17:26,045
and we had to link arms.
143
00:17:26,295 --> 00:17:28,214
We weren't allowed to let anyone through.
144
00:17:28,881 --> 00:17:31,509
My friend said, "Let's go in there."
145
00:17:33,094 --> 00:17:35,596
"There's got to be something there."
146
00:17:35,721 --> 00:17:38,766
"I think you can recognize the Jew by…"
147
00:17:39,392 --> 00:17:40,726
"The Jew smells."
148
00:17:41,143 --> 00:17:43,646
"You can smell the Jew."
149
00:17:44,647 --> 00:17:49,527
Between Slawentzitz and Ujest,
150
00:17:50,486 --> 00:17:52,530
there was a Jewish cemetery.
151
00:17:53,322 --> 00:17:57,535
There were at least 100 graves there.
152
00:17:57,743 --> 00:18:04,250
So, there must have been
a Jewish community there
153
00:18:04,375 --> 00:18:07,169
at some point.
154
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,508
We were in the Jungvolk and Hitler Youth.
155
00:18:13,050 --> 00:18:16,053
And that's when the Jew-baiting started.
156
00:18:17,305 --> 00:18:21,601
We would often go to the Jewish cemetery.
157
00:18:22,351 --> 00:18:26,105
We went there at midnight,
at the witching hour.
158
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,442
It was a test of courage.
159
00:18:30,276 --> 00:18:37,033
JEW
160
00:18:44,665 --> 00:18:46,751
The Jews weren't popular, were they?
161
00:18:46,876 --> 00:18:50,338
This had consequences.
162
00:18:58,888 --> 00:19:00,723
Why weren't the Jews popular?
163
00:19:02,391 --> 00:19:06,646
Apparently because they…
164
00:19:08,731 --> 00:19:14,945
They were into deal-making,
and they had hooked noses.
165
00:19:17,698 --> 00:19:22,495
We learned to read
using the normal alphabet book.
166
00:19:22,620 --> 00:19:26,957
But we also had
a Jew-themed alphabet book.
167
00:19:27,166 --> 00:19:32,254
It was published by Streicher, who had
also published the Nuremberg Race Laws.
168
00:19:32,463 --> 00:19:37,843
And this book had a caricature of a Jew
169
00:19:38,219 --> 00:19:40,346
for each letter of the alphabet.
170
00:19:40,513 --> 00:19:43,808
I remember one in particular.
171
00:19:43,933 --> 00:19:47,603
It showed a butcher's shop that was…
172
00:19:49,605 --> 00:19:53,984
really greasy and filthy.
173
00:19:54,110 --> 00:19:57,029
It showed a disgusting Jew,
174
00:19:57,530 --> 00:20:03,619
one with dirty long hair and a hat,
behind the counter.
175
00:20:03,703 --> 00:20:08,499
And next to him, there was
a blonde German girl
176
00:20:09,250 --> 00:20:11,001
with a white apron.
177
00:20:11,168 --> 00:20:15,589
The Jew had his hand
where it shouldn't be.
178
00:20:17,842 --> 00:20:19,844
The Jews were to blame for everything.
179
00:20:21,303 --> 00:20:26,183
We were a village of 175 people.
180
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,688
We had no electricity.
181
00:20:31,188 --> 00:20:37,319
The mobile Nazi Film Unit came
to show us films, like Suess the Jew.
182
00:20:37,445 --> 00:20:41,991
They showed Nazi films
in the smallest villages.
183
00:20:42,116 --> 00:20:45,870
You can't imagine today
what kind of pressure there was.
184
00:20:56,255 --> 00:20:58,090
That was my grandmother.
185
00:20:58,632 --> 00:21:01,385
-Is that the Jewish grandmother?
-Yes.
186
00:21:03,262 --> 00:21:05,765
That is the Jewish generation. That's her.
187
00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:08,017
And that's her mother.
188
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:10,644
Yes.
189
00:21:13,898 --> 00:21:18,819
My older brother was a convinced Nazi.
190
00:21:20,571 --> 00:21:22,490
And much later, he realized
191
00:21:23,574 --> 00:21:27,578
that our father was also a Jew,
in accordance with Jewish tradition.
192
00:21:28,621 --> 00:21:30,706
His mother was Jewish.
193
00:21:32,124 --> 00:21:35,753
But he didn't make that public.
194
00:21:36,420 --> 00:21:38,088
He kept that a secret.
195
00:21:39,048 --> 00:21:42,092
And when my brother realized
that our father was a Jew…
196
00:21:42,259 --> 00:21:45,429
He wanted to be racially pure.
197
00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:50,851
When he realized that according
to both the Jewish and Nazi rules…
198
00:21:52,853 --> 00:21:54,355
that our father was actually Jewish,
199
00:21:55,523 --> 00:21:59,819
a process of rethinking began.
200
00:22:05,533 --> 00:22:08,911
There were no Jews in our village.
201
00:22:11,622 --> 00:22:17,795
My parents had contact with a Jew
who came from Friedeberg-Ostbahnhof.
202
00:22:18,295 --> 00:22:24,301
He bought the skins
that we sold him on slaughtering days.
203
00:22:24,718 --> 00:22:28,097
I always went to Woldenberg with him
to get my hair cut.
204
00:22:28,264 --> 00:22:29,640
His name was Piefke.
205
00:22:30,099 --> 00:22:32,101
And, one day, he didn't show up.
206
00:22:33,477 --> 00:22:35,521
I asked, "Where is Piefke?"
207
00:22:35,980 --> 00:22:37,731
They told me that he had emigrated.
208
00:22:58,377 --> 00:23:05,342
Originally, it was a perfectly normal
hospital for psychiatric patients.
209
00:23:05,926 --> 00:23:08,888
And it remained one,
210
00:23:09,096 --> 00:23:15,060
but the Fascists turned part of it
into an Extermination Center.
211
00:23:16,562 --> 00:23:20,774
It was all kept very secret.
212
00:23:21,150 --> 00:23:23,527
But word got around
213
00:23:23,944 --> 00:23:30,159
that buses were arriving in Bernburg
with darkened windows
214
00:23:30,409 --> 00:23:33,704
heading in the direction
of the Sanatorium,
215
00:23:33,954 --> 00:23:36,123
as the Bernburgers called it.
216
00:23:38,042 --> 00:23:44,965
Every few days, black smoke would rise,
and it smelled sweet.
217
00:23:45,257 --> 00:23:49,929
From this, many people concluded
that people's bodies were burned there.
218
00:23:51,138 --> 00:23:56,977
People arrived and were murdered.
The furnaces are still there today.
219
00:23:57,937 --> 00:24:04,193
It was talked about a little,
in very hushed tones.
220
00:24:04,401 --> 00:24:06,946
It was dangerous to talk about it.
221
00:24:07,404 --> 00:24:13,744
It was only whispered about in private.
222
00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:53,200
It was November 9th.
223
00:24:54,827 --> 00:24:56,203
1938.
224
00:24:57,121 --> 00:25:00,708
The SS was sworn in
on that date every year.
225
00:25:02,292 --> 00:25:09,091
The SS from all over Germany congregated
in front of the Feldherrnhalle.
226
00:25:09,717 --> 00:25:14,221
It was night,
and we marched there in rank.
227
00:25:14,596 --> 00:25:20,728
And then came Hitler, Himmler, and so on.
228
00:25:23,105 --> 00:25:28,736
To the left, above the Residenz,
next to the Feldherrnhalle,
229
00:25:29,403 --> 00:25:30,863
there was the glow of a fire.
230
00:25:31,905 --> 00:25:34,533
It didn't mean anything.
It was just a fire somewhere.
231
00:25:35,159 --> 00:25:39,455
We returned to our barracks.
232
00:25:40,622 --> 00:25:45,127
And the next day,
we found out what it was.
233
00:25:46,128 --> 00:25:47,504
It was Kristallnacht.
234
00:25:48,547 --> 00:25:49,840
I had no idea.
235
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,139
That fire was the synagogue.
236
00:26:42,476 --> 00:26:47,106
The Party ordered the schools
to take the children there.
237
00:26:47,272 --> 00:26:50,526
They said the children should see it.
238
00:26:50,818 --> 00:26:52,111
What was the motive?
239
00:26:52,236 --> 00:26:58,575
They did not belong to our ethnic group,
apparently. I don't know the reason.
240
00:26:58,784 --> 00:27:00,994
They said the children should see it.
241
00:27:01,203 --> 00:27:03,914
Can you remember your reaction?
242
00:27:04,248 --> 00:27:05,999
I was too young then.
243
00:27:06,625 --> 00:27:07,751
Fourteen?
244
00:27:07,918 --> 00:27:10,170
But look, it wasn't in our neighborhood.
245
00:27:11,338 --> 00:27:14,758
And, honestly, we didn't really leave
our neighborhoods.
246
00:27:20,097 --> 00:27:21,890
-Hello, Karl.
-Hi, Gisela.
247
00:27:26,562 --> 00:27:30,440
"From 1829
248
00:27:30,524 --> 00:27:37,489
until its destruction
on November 10, 1938,
249
00:27:38,073 --> 00:27:41,785
this was the center
of Weener's Jewish community."
250
00:27:42,202 --> 00:27:47,166
"A synagogue from 1829 to 1938."
251
00:27:47,499 --> 00:27:50,335
"A school from 1853."
252
00:27:50,669 --> 00:27:54,965
"Rabbi and Teacher's House from 1887."
253
00:27:56,425 --> 00:27:58,760
I can't read the Jewish text.
254
00:28:00,470 --> 00:28:03,599
So there was a Jewish community here?
255
00:28:03,807 --> 00:28:05,309
Yes. In Weener.
256
00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:07,686
Who burned all of this down?
257
00:28:07,895 --> 00:28:09,313
People from the SA.
258
00:28:11,565 --> 00:28:15,944
We were on Fasanenstrasse
259
00:28:16,069 --> 00:28:20,782
and we saw
that the synagogue was on fire.
260
00:28:21,116 --> 00:28:25,495
The fire brigade stood in front of it,
but they did nothing. Nothing at all.
261
00:28:25,662 --> 00:28:32,461
We were astonished
that they didn't intervene.
262
00:28:32,711 --> 00:28:36,381
They just let it burn down.
263
00:28:36,965 --> 00:28:40,677
I only understood why
264
00:28:41,136 --> 00:28:44,473
a long time later.
265
00:28:44,806 --> 00:28:49,436
They were only there to make sure
that the neighboring houses
266
00:28:50,062 --> 00:28:52,314
would not catch fire.
267
00:28:53,232 --> 00:28:59,905
But that was only the beginning
of the hounding of the Jews.
268
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:06,119
I didn't really care
that the synagogue was burned down.
269
00:29:06,453 --> 00:29:07,955
I wasn't sorry about that.
270
00:29:09,122 --> 00:29:12,668
I didn't feel any pity for the Jews.
271
00:29:15,963 --> 00:29:18,632
So for you, it wasn't a crime?
272
00:29:19,049 --> 00:29:20,342
No, not for me…
273
00:29:22,177 --> 00:29:24,763
Well, hold on! That's a crime.
274
00:29:25,347 --> 00:29:30,269
One would almost have to say yes.
However, I didn't consider it a crime.
275
00:29:31,270 --> 00:29:33,063
It was all the same to me.
276
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,817
But if you look at it…
277
00:29:39,444 --> 00:29:43,490
from a legal perspective,
one would have to consider it a crime,
278
00:29:44,032 --> 00:29:48,370
because it was the destruction
of other people's property.
279
00:29:49,121 --> 00:29:51,832
So the one who destroys it
would be a criminal.
280
00:29:52,207 --> 00:29:54,835
But I didn't feel that way.
281
00:31:33,308 --> 00:31:35,602
We didn't have any civilian clothes.
282
00:31:35,977 --> 00:31:39,815
We were always in uniform,
from morning till evening.
283
00:31:40,232 --> 00:31:45,153
And when you are in uniform
the whole year round,
284
00:31:45,487 --> 00:31:47,239
that leaves a mark.
285
00:31:50,575 --> 00:31:54,955
You have no time
to consider yourself a civilian.
286
00:32:02,462 --> 00:32:03,630
In the Nazi Political Academy,
287
00:32:03,755 --> 00:32:08,760
it was important that graduates
enter every profession.
288
00:32:08,969 --> 00:32:15,767
There should be people everywhere
who could play an elite role in Nazism.
289
00:32:16,476 --> 00:32:21,815
Everyone hoped to be drafted
as early as possible,
290
00:32:21,982 --> 00:32:25,110
to become a soldier and go to war.
291
00:32:26,153 --> 00:32:30,323
Many of us volunteered for the Waffen-SS.
292
00:32:32,826 --> 00:32:37,080
This was being part of elite. We wanted
to continue being part of the elite.
293
00:32:49,718 --> 00:32:51,344
The Family Tree.
294
00:32:52,137 --> 00:32:56,850
SS Lieutenant, Karl Heinrich
Lübbert Hollander. Believer.
295
00:32:57,726 --> 00:32:59,561
With a swastika, see?
296
00:33:01,605 --> 00:33:03,190
This shows that you are Aryan?
297
00:33:03,565 --> 00:33:05,192
Of good stock. Yes.
298
00:33:05,942 --> 00:33:10,197
You couldn't become
an officer in the SS otherwise?
299
00:33:10,322 --> 00:33:11,323
No.
300
00:33:12,491 --> 00:33:14,201
That was a prerequisite.
301
00:33:15,952 --> 00:33:17,329
What was your rank?
302
00:33:17,412 --> 00:33:20,290
SS-Oberstrumführer,
First Lieutenant in the end.
303
00:33:34,304 --> 00:33:36,181
I went to the SS
304
00:33:36,348 --> 00:33:41,770
because I heard
that they trained you hard.
305
00:33:42,020 --> 00:33:43,396
I was an athlete.
306
00:33:44,356 --> 00:33:47,859
I did athletics, wrestling, boxing,
307
00:33:48,026 --> 00:33:51,863
football, hiking, skiing.
308
00:33:52,113 --> 00:33:54,449
I liked sports. I liked it tough.
309
00:34:14,177 --> 00:34:19,683
I signed up for the SS on March 15th.
310
00:34:20,850 --> 00:34:25,814
The SS was the elite corps.
They had the best tanks.
311
00:34:26,523 --> 00:34:30,944
And we got excited. Well, I did anyway.
312
00:34:31,987 --> 00:34:35,407
My father wasn't too excited about it.
313
00:34:35,865 --> 00:34:39,619
I did it without his knowledge.
314
00:34:41,621 --> 00:34:44,666
I believed in it,
and I wanted to die a hero's death.
315
00:34:44,916 --> 00:34:50,046
I had written my farewell letter
to my parents.
316
00:34:50,171 --> 00:34:54,718
"When I fall, you should be proud.
You should not wear black."
317
00:34:54,968 --> 00:34:57,220
Nonsense like that.
318
00:34:57,971 --> 00:35:00,265
Today, you wonder how that could happen.
319
00:35:20,577 --> 00:35:24,456
My parents took me to a career counselor.
320
00:35:25,999 --> 00:35:31,755
The man said, "First, he must complete
his Labor and Military Service."
321
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,548
That's two and a half years.
322
00:35:33,882 --> 00:35:38,470
Or you could send him to Oranienburg,
323
00:35:39,137 --> 00:35:42,766
to the Death's Head Unit.
324
00:35:44,184 --> 00:35:46,144
They'll take him at 16.
325
00:35:47,020 --> 00:35:50,148
And then he won't have to do
any Labor Service.
326
00:36:02,535 --> 00:36:05,372
I saw a man there once.
327
00:36:06,373 --> 00:36:07,707
I said, "I know him."
328
00:36:07,874 --> 00:36:13,088
"He once bought stamps
from me for charity."
329
00:36:13,713 --> 00:36:15,215
And I wanted to go over.
330
00:36:15,548 --> 00:36:17,676
He hadn't done anything!
331
00:36:18,176 --> 00:36:21,221
My comrade held me back and said,
332
00:36:21,596 --> 00:36:25,767
"You idiot! Haven't you noticed
what's going on?"
333
00:36:29,145 --> 00:36:30,980
That was a Mr. Warschauer.
334
00:36:31,731 --> 00:36:34,359
But why did they send him
to Sachsenhausen?
335
00:36:34,526 --> 00:36:39,698
I can't tell you that.
Being a Jew was probably enough.
336
00:36:40,657 --> 00:36:45,412
Yes. Locking the man up was a disgrace.
337
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:50,542
We did not agree with that,
as you can imagine.
338
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,547
But when you're caught up in it,
you keep your mouth shut.
339
00:36:56,256 --> 00:36:57,340
At 16.
340
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,220
I'm sorry. But that's the truth.
341
00:37:05,432 --> 00:37:09,644
And then I heard screams outside.
342
00:37:10,687 --> 00:37:16,568
I put the table under the window
343
00:37:17,110 --> 00:37:19,279
and then a stool on top of that,
344
00:37:19,738 --> 00:37:24,075
so I could look through the window.
345
00:37:25,076 --> 00:37:26,536
And then I saw it.
346
00:37:28,371 --> 00:37:30,832
I saw how people were beaten.
347
00:37:31,875 --> 00:37:33,710
With bullwhips.
348
00:37:34,711 --> 00:37:36,504
And others were hanging,
349
00:37:37,255 --> 00:37:41,217
with their hands tied behind their backs.
350
00:37:42,385 --> 00:37:44,971
The stool was pulled from under their feet
351
00:37:45,764 --> 00:37:48,933
and they screamed
until they were unconscious.
352
00:37:51,227 --> 00:37:53,897
And if an officer had asked you to do it?
353
00:37:54,063 --> 00:37:58,234
If an officer had asked me
to pull the stool away,
354
00:37:58,526 --> 00:38:00,487
the stool would have gone flying.
355
00:38:00,820 --> 00:38:02,071
No doubt about it.
356
00:38:53,206 --> 00:38:55,834
"On January 10, 1940,
357
00:38:56,334 --> 00:39:01,881
I was ordered to attend the SS Officers
Training School in Dachau."
358
00:39:02,465 --> 00:39:06,678
"I passed the exam
with fairly good results."
359
00:39:08,847 --> 00:39:12,350
"The school was next
to the concentration camp."
360
00:39:13,142 --> 00:39:18,731
My question would be whether you knew
that Jews were interned in Dachau.
361
00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:21,985
No.
362
00:39:23,653 --> 00:39:25,280
We didn't know that.
363
00:39:25,989 --> 00:39:27,198
You didn't know that?
364
00:39:27,365 --> 00:39:31,578
For us, they were political prisoners.
365
00:39:35,748 --> 00:39:39,168
If someone says that they didn't know
about concentration camps,
366
00:39:39,252 --> 00:39:41,254
that is just not true.
367
00:39:42,088 --> 00:39:48,261
The concentration camp inmates
went to work in their prison uniforms.
368
00:39:48,344 --> 00:39:53,349
There were two or three guards, depending
on how many prisoners there were.
369
00:39:54,601 --> 00:39:56,519
Everybody saw this.
370
00:39:58,271 --> 00:40:02,984
I was stationed at Dachau
on April 1, 1938.
371
00:40:05,028 --> 00:40:06,529
There were also Jews there.
372
00:40:06,696 --> 00:40:11,618
I know this, because our local
police commander was there.
373
00:40:11,826 --> 00:40:13,369
He was also a Jew.
374
00:40:14,954 --> 00:40:21,210
And he was taken there. I even saw him.
375
00:40:21,419 --> 00:40:23,630
-In the camp.
-In Dachau?
376
00:40:23,796 --> 00:40:28,134
Well, yes. I saw him on his way to work.
377
00:40:39,228 --> 00:40:43,191
When Adolf Hitler came to power,
378
00:40:43,775 --> 00:40:49,364
all of those who had opposed him
were arrested overnight.
379
00:40:49,489 --> 00:40:53,743
They were put into concentration camps,
and killed.
380
00:40:54,535 --> 00:40:59,666
The intellectual leadership
of the resistance was gone.
381
00:41:00,458 --> 00:41:06,714
And anyone who still protested
was promptly killed.
382
00:41:07,298 --> 00:41:09,384
Killed. So people were scared.
383
00:41:11,469 --> 00:41:13,471
I can't explain it any other way.
384
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,475
These heroes you expect to find,
there aren't many of them.
385
00:41:49,757 --> 00:41:51,926
I was 14 years old.
386
00:41:52,051 --> 00:41:57,432
I was the nanny for an SS family
for six years.
387
00:41:57,682 --> 00:41:59,475
I looked after the children
388
00:41:59,726 --> 00:42:03,521
because their mother worked
in the concentration camp.
389
00:42:05,189 --> 00:42:08,609
We took the children there sometimes,
390
00:42:09,110 --> 00:42:12,155
when they wanted to see their mother.
391
00:42:12,321 --> 00:42:14,282
-Yeah.
-She never came home.
392
00:42:14,532 --> 00:42:17,660
She normally slept over there.
393
00:42:18,119 --> 00:42:21,122
She worked nights in the canteen.
394
00:42:21,372 --> 00:42:25,084
I also went to the cinema at the camp.
395
00:42:25,501 --> 00:42:28,796
The prisoners filled my teeth.
396
00:42:29,380 --> 00:42:31,883
They fixed my teeth.
397
00:42:32,008 --> 00:42:35,094
So, your dentist was there?
398
00:42:35,303 --> 00:42:38,973
Yes, prisoners were my dentists.
399
00:42:39,057 --> 00:42:40,308
Prisoners were your dentists?
400
00:42:40,516 --> 00:42:47,273
Yeah, they fixed my teeth.
They were very nice prisoners.
401
00:42:47,523 --> 00:42:50,985
The Kapos, and so on. They were nice.
402
00:42:51,319 --> 00:42:56,032
Only the poor Jews
were killed straight away.
403
00:42:56,324 --> 00:43:02,789
When they arrived, they were
immediately taken to the gas chamber.
404
00:43:02,955 --> 00:43:07,794
They burned them immediately.
405
00:43:08,169 --> 00:43:10,630
They killed so many people.
406
00:43:23,142 --> 00:43:26,813
In Mauthausen,
there were the "Death Stairs,"
407
00:43:27,230 --> 00:43:31,150
to avoid a detour.
408
00:43:31,275 --> 00:43:34,529
Because the camp
was at the top of the hill
409
00:43:35,279 --> 00:43:38,157
and the quarry was at the bottom.
410
00:43:38,783 --> 00:43:44,914
They built the "Death Stairs"
to speed up the journey.
411
00:43:45,414 --> 00:43:48,876
The steps were of different heights
412
00:43:49,460 --> 00:43:52,964
and when it rained,
413
00:43:53,256 --> 00:43:58,970
some would slip and fall,
414
00:43:59,220 --> 00:44:02,265
or they would drop their stone
415
00:44:02,348 --> 00:44:08,104
and injure somebody else's foot.
416
00:44:08,771 --> 00:44:12,400
Many lost their lives.
There were many accidents.
417
00:44:12,692 --> 00:44:16,529
Did you see that too, back then?
418
00:44:16,696 --> 00:44:18,197
Yes.
419
00:44:26,414 --> 00:44:30,543
And then there was another steep wall
420
00:44:31,169 --> 00:44:37,175
and some were pushed down,
either by Kapos or by the SS.
421
00:44:37,592 --> 00:44:43,014
They were pushed over the steep slope.
422
00:44:43,556 --> 00:44:49,437
Twenty meters of free-fall onto rocks.
423
00:44:49,729 --> 00:44:52,315
Nobody survived that.
424
00:45:22,220 --> 00:45:23,596
These are tomatoes.
425
00:45:26,974 --> 00:45:28,726
I don't have anything green.
426
00:45:29,101 --> 00:45:30,519
I don't think that matters.
427
00:45:33,314 --> 00:45:34,523
Smell this.
428
00:45:37,652 --> 00:45:38,861
Is it local?
429
00:45:39,153 --> 00:45:40,738
Homemade, yesterday.
430
00:45:48,663 --> 00:45:52,250
That was taken for my card,
for the bunker site.
431
00:45:53,918 --> 00:45:55,503
I was a wages clerk.
432
00:45:56,295 --> 00:45:59,215
I did the payroll for the German workers.
433
00:45:59,423 --> 00:46:03,052
I only submitted the hours
for the foreign workers,
434
00:46:03,344 --> 00:46:06,138
because the concentration camp prisoners
didn't get paid.
435
00:46:09,767 --> 00:46:13,521
There were groups of laborers in Kap Horn
436
00:46:13,771 --> 00:46:19,110
and here at the Valentin Bunker,
where they built submarines.
437
00:46:25,950 --> 00:46:29,287
Kap Horn was surrounded
by water on three sides.
438
00:46:29,495 --> 00:46:32,790
On one side, there were pontoons,
439
00:46:33,499 --> 00:46:38,796
boats that the concentration camp inmates
were herded onto
440
00:46:39,213 --> 00:46:42,967
and then taken to the steel works.
441
00:46:43,342 --> 00:46:47,388
Us Germans were not supposed to go there.
442
00:46:47,930 --> 00:46:50,141
But I went there once.
443
00:46:50,391 --> 00:46:52,601
And I saw how these people
stood on the boat,
444
00:46:52,768 --> 00:46:56,230
packed in tightly, like matches.
445
00:46:56,772 --> 00:47:01,736
To this day, I'm ashamed that humans
could do this to other humans.
446
00:47:04,739 --> 00:47:08,242
The Kapo came from a sub-camp
of the Neuengamme concentration camp.
447
00:47:08,409 --> 00:47:12,079
He had a group of 15 or 20 men,
448
00:47:12,246 --> 00:47:13,998
and these 15 or 20 men
449
00:47:14,165 --> 00:47:19,045
had to be brought back
to the concentration camp, dead or alive.
450
00:47:20,504 --> 00:47:23,215
They dragged them along.
451
00:47:24,633 --> 00:47:28,512
Just so he could hand over
the same number of men he had taken.
452
00:47:29,138 --> 00:47:30,473
So, at the end of the shift,
453
00:47:30,598 --> 00:47:33,476
the same number of people had to be
brought back, even if they were dead.
454
00:47:33,559 --> 00:47:35,853
Yes, even if they could barely walk.
455
00:47:35,978 --> 00:47:38,689
How do you know that?
456
00:47:38,814 --> 00:47:40,566
I saw it happen.
457
00:47:40,733 --> 00:47:46,781
Our hut was only 20 meters away
from the bunker.
458
00:47:47,490 --> 00:47:52,620
But as a bookkeeper,
I had nothing to do with it.
459
00:48:13,307 --> 00:48:15,726
They were unloaded from the trains
460
00:48:15,851 --> 00:48:22,400
and then they had to walk
five or six kilometers to the camp.
461
00:48:24,693 --> 00:48:28,447
When they walked past
in their wooden clogs,
462
00:48:28,781 --> 00:48:32,410
it sounded like a threshing machine.
463
00:48:33,994 --> 00:48:37,164
"Here they come again,"
we'd say to one another.
464
00:48:51,262 --> 00:48:55,975
Most people benefited from it.
465
00:48:56,725 --> 00:49:02,231
They could work here and earn money.
466
00:49:03,441 --> 00:49:09,822
And those who earned money here
were okay with it.
467
00:49:10,531 --> 00:49:12,450
You mean, they made a profit out of it?
468
00:49:12,575 --> 00:49:15,327
You could find advantages in it, yes.
469
00:49:15,411 --> 00:49:16,704
They benefited from it?
470
00:49:16,787 --> 00:49:19,039
Yes.
471
00:49:30,551 --> 00:49:37,516
In some way, the concentration camp
had an effect on all of us.
472
00:49:39,727 --> 00:49:43,355
Local shops benefited too, of course.
473
00:49:45,524 --> 00:49:49,778
The butcher shops, the bakeries,
474
00:49:51,113 --> 00:49:52,907
and all of the grocers.
475
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,085
Your grandfather was a delivery man?
476
00:50:05,252 --> 00:50:07,087
Yes, he was a delivery driver.
477
00:50:07,922 --> 00:50:11,091
With a cart and horses.
478
00:50:11,717 --> 00:50:16,430
He collected goods
from the train station in Bergen
479
00:50:17,014 --> 00:50:20,518
and he took them to the camp.
480
00:50:31,070 --> 00:50:35,658
The prisoners,
were they hiding here somewhere?
481
00:50:35,824 --> 00:50:42,039
Yes, they hid in the hayloft at night,
or in the pigsty.
482
00:50:42,331 --> 00:50:43,832
Or on top of the pigsty.
483
00:50:43,999 --> 00:50:46,877
I mean, they are big buildings.
484
00:50:49,630 --> 00:50:56,512
Either we discovered them in the morning
or they came to us.
485
00:50:57,555 --> 00:50:59,557
Well, they were hungry.
486
00:51:03,602 --> 00:51:04,645
Yeah.
487
00:51:05,646 --> 00:51:09,316
And then what happened to them?
488
00:51:09,525 --> 00:51:12,319
Well, they were picked up.
489
00:51:13,362 --> 00:51:18,492
Here in the barracks, they were a bit…
What do I know?
490
00:51:20,786 --> 00:51:26,375
Or taken to the concentration camp.
They took them to the camp.
491
00:51:28,836 --> 00:51:30,337
And who picked them up?
492
00:51:31,130 --> 00:51:33,465
Guards, you know.
493
00:51:35,884 --> 00:51:42,641
But how did the guards know
that people were hiding here?
494
00:51:45,185 --> 00:51:51,942
Well, we would discover them
and then report it.
495
00:51:52,860 --> 00:51:56,447
At least, that is how I remember it.
496
00:52:00,242 --> 00:52:03,912
-Did you make a phone call or…?
-Yes, yes, yes.
497
00:52:08,959 --> 00:52:15,090
Do you know what happened
to these prisoners?
498
00:52:15,299 --> 00:52:18,844
No, nobody knows what happened.
499
00:53:06,809 --> 00:53:09,061
My father was a railway man.
500
00:53:09,853 --> 00:53:12,940
My father was also head
of the cargo department.
501
00:53:13,816 --> 00:53:20,280
This is why our apartment
was at the train station.
502
00:53:20,906 --> 00:53:25,327
It was interesting,
because when the trains came,
503
00:53:25,619 --> 00:53:28,997
we could see clearly what was happening.
504
00:53:30,541 --> 00:53:32,418
What were his duties?
505
00:53:32,501 --> 00:53:36,213
Well, it was to register these trains.
506
00:53:36,672 --> 00:53:42,386
Let's say there was
a freight train loaded with people
507
00:53:42,803 --> 00:53:45,305
and it was headed for Auschwitz.
508
00:53:45,723 --> 00:53:51,520
It had to be registered
on the paperwork at the freight yard,
509
00:53:52,020 --> 00:53:54,189
where all the trains went.
510
00:54:19,798 --> 00:54:23,343
They cut down all the trees
for about ten kilometers
511
00:54:23,761 --> 00:54:28,766
and they put up the factories there
in no time.
512
00:54:28,974 --> 00:54:34,438
Massive camps of prisoners
and Jews, and so on.
513
00:54:34,813 --> 00:54:38,650
They were unloaded at the freight yard
514
00:54:38,942 --> 00:54:43,447
and they were marched
to their respective camps.
515
00:54:48,368 --> 00:54:51,413
Every day,
516
00:54:52,414 --> 00:54:57,252
I saw guards escorting Jews from work
517
00:54:57,878 --> 00:54:59,963
back to the camp.
518
00:55:00,380 --> 00:55:05,093
Sometimes, they had to carry
one of their fellows
519
00:55:05,177 --> 00:55:07,596
because they could not walk anymore.
520
00:55:08,305 --> 00:55:11,600
They put them on some kind of stretcher.
521
00:55:12,184 --> 00:55:15,187
I saw that quite often.
522
00:55:20,943 --> 00:55:24,404
My father knew
where the people were going.
523
00:55:24,863 --> 00:55:27,950
No one ever came back.
They must have gone somewhere.
524
00:55:29,451 --> 00:55:33,413
Sometimes my father
would come home and say,
525
00:55:33,872 --> 00:55:40,212
"They dispatched Jews again today."
526
00:55:40,462 --> 00:55:42,506
To Auschwitz.
527
00:55:43,340 --> 00:55:46,468
People would say, quietly,
528
00:55:47,135 --> 00:55:50,889
"They are driven up to the chimney there."
529
00:56:14,705 --> 00:56:18,375
I still have the smell
530
00:56:19,418 --> 00:56:22,588
of the crematorium in my nose.
531
00:56:24,882 --> 00:56:31,597
When you saw the smoke rising up,
532
00:56:31,763 --> 00:56:37,603
it was like when you burn car tires.
533
00:56:39,313 --> 00:56:42,524
Then we would say,
"They have put some more in."
534
00:56:45,903 --> 00:56:52,826
They would put at least three people
on there at a time,
535
00:56:53,368 --> 00:56:55,495
on a metal grille.
536
00:57:00,375 --> 00:57:06,632
As the skin burned,
it produced a lot of smoke.
537
00:57:08,508 --> 00:57:13,096
You could smell it two kilometers away.
538
00:57:27,861 --> 00:57:33,742
PLATFORM 17
539
00:59:11,048 --> 00:59:13,759
Are you all from Ebensee?
540
00:59:13,884 --> 00:59:15,677
Yes, we were all born in Ebensee.
541
00:59:15,761 --> 00:59:17,054
-All of you?
-Yes, all of us.
542
00:59:17,179 --> 00:59:20,140
What did you know about
the concentration camp during the war?
543
00:59:20,265 --> 00:59:22,476
How much did you know?
544
00:59:23,393 --> 00:59:28,065
We knew nothing! At least, I didn't.
I can't speak for the others.
545
00:59:28,315 --> 00:59:29,733
I knew nothing.
546
00:59:29,941 --> 00:59:33,487
Everything about the camps was covered up.
547
00:59:34,029 --> 00:59:38,784
You understand?
It was all hushed up. Suppressed.
548
00:59:39,076 --> 00:59:42,120
People would talk about it quietly,
549
00:59:42,496 --> 00:59:46,291
but not out loud!
550
00:59:46,458 --> 00:59:49,669
Well, it was awful.
551
00:59:49,836 --> 00:59:53,632
My old neighbor, he moved to Poland.
552
00:59:53,757 --> 00:59:58,095
He told me so much because he was
in the concentration camp, and survived.
553
00:59:58,220 --> 00:59:59,387
He survived.
554
00:59:59,513 --> 01:00:01,598
They were hungry.
555
01:00:01,723 --> 01:00:04,726
So many of them starved to death.
556
01:00:04,851 --> 01:00:07,729
The camp inmates worked in the tunnels?
557
01:00:07,813 --> 01:00:09,272
Those who still could.
558
01:00:10,148 --> 01:00:13,443
Often they had to carry them back
on stretchers,
559
01:00:13,610 --> 01:00:16,029
when they couldn't take any more.
560
01:00:16,571 --> 01:00:20,450
No food. They were finished.
561
01:00:20,575 --> 01:00:23,829
Yes, it was so many.
562
01:00:24,579 --> 01:00:28,834
What happened to those
who could no longer work?
563
01:00:28,959 --> 01:00:31,878
-They were burned.
-Yes, exactly. Every time.
564
01:00:32,003 --> 01:00:34,214
The ovens were fired up.
565
01:00:34,422 --> 01:00:40,637
You could see the smoke from the ovens.
566
01:00:40,846 --> 01:00:42,556
You knew what was going on.
567
01:00:43,223 --> 01:00:46,685
Those were horrific times.
568
01:00:48,728 --> 01:00:51,439
And they beat them to the end.
569
01:00:51,648 --> 01:00:56,027
In the labor camps,
they beat them to the end.
570
01:00:56,194 --> 01:00:58,780
Then it was over.
571
01:01:00,615 --> 01:01:05,245
So you think that the people here
572
01:01:05,537 --> 01:01:07,998
knew what was going on?
573
01:01:08,206 --> 01:01:10,584
No one would admit it
574
01:01:10,709 --> 01:01:14,838
out of fear of being taken there as well.
575
01:01:15,172 --> 01:01:18,842
People would say, "Don't say anything
or you'll end up in the camp too."
576
01:01:18,967 --> 01:01:20,302
They noticed.
577
01:01:20,427 --> 01:01:22,429
Everyone knew but no one said anything!
578
01:01:30,937 --> 01:01:33,315
The day before the Americans came,
579
01:01:33,565 --> 01:01:36,568
there was a lot of smoke
and it smelt awful.
580
01:01:36,735 --> 01:01:38,612
They burned them all.
581
01:01:38,904 --> 01:01:41,531
The ones who were worn out.
582
01:01:41,740 --> 01:01:44,576
They burned them all. I remember that.
583
01:01:44,743 --> 01:01:50,081
I always sat by the window,
so I saw a lot.
584
01:01:50,290 --> 01:01:52,417
The Jeep drove up there.
585
01:01:53,126 --> 01:01:55,128
-The Americans.
-Yes.
586
01:01:55,503 --> 01:01:57,339
They opened the gate.
587
01:01:57,505 --> 01:02:00,550
Imagine how people rejoiced
when they came!
588
01:02:00,675 --> 01:02:03,136
-How they screamed!
-How they screamed!
589
01:02:03,220 --> 01:02:07,057
But for joy! They were cries of joy.
590
01:02:07,432 --> 01:02:08,934
They were so glad.
591
01:02:10,685 --> 01:02:13,230
The townspeople got scared,
592
01:02:13,438 --> 01:02:17,025
thinking that they would break
into the houses or something.
593
01:02:17,192 --> 01:02:19,694
But this didn't happen.
594
01:02:20,028 --> 01:02:26,952
And suddenly, all the SS guards were gone.
595
01:02:27,410 --> 01:02:32,207
There were none to be seen,
from one moment to the next.
596
01:02:32,874 --> 01:02:37,837
They would ring your doorbell
597
01:02:38,046 --> 01:02:41,216
late at night,
598
01:02:41,508 --> 01:02:45,595
and your whole flat would be searched.
599
01:02:45,845 --> 01:02:48,181
Was someone there?
600
01:02:48,640 --> 01:02:50,767
-Your friend?
-Yes, my boyfriend.
601
01:02:51,226 --> 01:02:57,190
He was with the SS,
and they would have caught him.
602
01:02:57,482 --> 01:02:59,359
But he was not from Ebensee.
603
01:02:59,567 --> 01:03:01,194
No, he was not from Ebensee.
604
01:03:01,319 --> 01:03:02,320
I see.
605
01:03:02,821 --> 01:03:05,073
Your husband, was he a Nazi?
606
01:03:05,407 --> 01:03:06,574
No.
607
01:03:07,242 --> 01:03:11,204
Your husband was an SS camp guard?
608
01:03:11,413 --> 01:03:15,333
If I hadn't hidden him for nine months,
609
01:03:15,542 --> 01:03:17,085
they would have arrested him.
610
01:03:17,210 --> 01:03:19,045
But they didn't get him.
611
01:03:41,901 --> 01:03:46,698
For the German people, the Waffen-SS
were at the peak of the nation.
612
01:03:49,743 --> 01:03:52,954
Not just physically, but spiritually too.
613
01:03:54,122 --> 01:03:55,874
An elite.
614
01:03:57,584 --> 01:03:59,669
Yes, it's still there.
615
01:04:01,046 --> 01:04:03,923
Whenever I have surgery,
I tell them about it.
616
01:04:04,549 --> 01:04:06,801
I've had quite a few operations.
617
01:04:07,761 --> 01:04:10,889
It's somewhere there. Here, look.
618
01:04:13,933 --> 01:04:16,353
Now you should be able to see it.
619
01:04:16,936 --> 01:04:19,105
What was your blood group?
620
01:04:19,356 --> 01:04:20,523
O.
621
01:04:21,441 --> 01:04:24,402
It's interesting that this
was only done with the Waffen-SS.
622
01:04:24,736 --> 01:04:29,282
You'd think that they would have
done this to all the soldiers.
623
01:04:29,866 --> 01:04:31,117
To help everyone.
624
01:04:31,284 --> 01:04:34,871
But there was an awareness of an elite,
625
01:04:35,580 --> 01:04:37,082
and that was the Waffen-SS.
626
01:04:37,457 --> 01:04:40,126
They came and said, "Show us your arm."
627
01:04:40,460 --> 01:04:44,964
It was supposed to be your blood group,
in case you were wounded.
628
01:04:45,298 --> 01:04:51,179
But many also said that they did it
to mark us forever.
629
01:04:53,598 --> 01:05:00,480
The Waffen-SS had nothing to do with…
630
01:05:02,649 --> 01:05:04,734
the terrible
631
01:05:05,693 --> 01:05:10,698
and brutal treatment
of Jews and dissidents,
632
01:05:10,865 --> 01:05:12,492
or the concentration camps.
633
01:05:12,784 --> 01:05:15,286
The SS had nothing to do with it
whatsoever.
634
01:05:16,162 --> 01:05:20,959
Nothing in the slightest.
We were always front-line soldiers.
635
01:05:21,251 --> 01:05:26,506
We were never involved in actions
behind the front.
636
01:05:27,173 --> 01:05:32,345
Always at the front,
eye to eye with the enemy.
637
01:05:32,804 --> 01:05:33,930
Nothing else.
638
01:05:34,639 --> 01:05:40,353
I have no regrets and I will never
regret being with that unit.
639
01:05:42,272 --> 01:05:43,398
Truly not.
640
01:05:44,274 --> 01:05:51,197
A camaraderie like that…
641
01:05:52,157 --> 01:05:57,495
You could rely on every man,
one hundred percent.
642
01:05:58,079 --> 01:06:04,669
There was nothing that could go wrong.
643
01:06:06,087 --> 01:06:07,505
That was the beauty of it.
644
01:06:09,174 --> 01:06:10,633
That was the beauty of it.
645
01:06:12,802 --> 01:06:13,887
Yes.
646
01:06:16,931 --> 01:06:21,853
There were SS units
who fought on the front line,
647
01:06:21,978 --> 01:06:24,105
and they were merciless.
648
01:06:24,355 --> 01:06:27,817
They shot whole villages.
649
01:06:28,067 --> 01:06:31,070
Nothing was left standing.
650
01:06:31,279 --> 01:06:33,948
People lay around like dead flies.
651
01:06:34,699 --> 01:06:36,534
That too, was the SS units.
652
01:06:37,035 --> 01:06:40,330
The Russians had already been driven out,
653
01:06:40,872 --> 01:06:42,916
but with the civilians…
654
01:06:45,877 --> 01:06:47,337
they did what they liked with them.
655
01:06:47,504 --> 01:06:50,131
There were more dead than alive.
656
01:06:50,673 --> 01:06:55,845
The living received us,
they begged, "Please, please…"
657
01:06:57,597 --> 01:07:03,811
The Russians were generally
taken prisoner, with some exceptions.
658
01:07:04,354 --> 01:07:06,689
I don't know about percentages,
659
01:07:06,898 --> 01:07:10,777
but I saw exceptions
where the ordinary soldiers,
660
01:07:10,860 --> 01:07:13,655
not the elite troops,
they drove away with their tanks…
661
01:07:14,989 --> 01:07:16,866
and were shot.
662
01:07:18,910 --> 01:07:20,828
They were buried in a mass grave.
663
01:07:22,038 --> 01:07:25,124
They had to dig their own graves
when we put them in there.
664
01:07:25,208 --> 01:07:26,543
I wasn't there.
665
01:07:28,586 --> 01:07:32,006
When they were forced to dig it,
they knew they would be shot.
666
01:07:32,799 --> 01:07:34,551
Did they talk to each other?
667
01:07:34,676 --> 01:07:36,886
Not at all. There was a deathly silence.
668
01:07:40,306 --> 01:07:43,601
We were in the Pripyat swamps.
669
01:07:44,477 --> 01:07:50,316
A doctor and three medical orderlies.
670
01:07:51,317 --> 01:07:52,318
And…
671
01:07:53,945 --> 01:07:58,658
And we were attached
to a Hungarian SS unit.
672
01:07:58,783 --> 01:08:05,290
And they allegedly
found ammunition in a village.
673
01:08:07,542 --> 01:08:10,920
We watched as they began
674
01:08:11,170 --> 01:08:15,425
to set the houses on fire.
675
01:08:15,675 --> 01:08:19,887
The people flooded out of their homes.
676
01:08:20,096 --> 01:08:22,932
There was thick smoke everywhere.
677
01:08:24,559 --> 01:08:27,228
It was like a film.
678
01:08:27,353 --> 01:08:29,772
It was a dark night,
679
01:08:30,064 --> 01:08:34,485
and these troops
were on their rather small horses.
680
01:08:34,611 --> 01:08:40,366
They were riding back and forth,
shooting like savages.
681
01:08:40,617 --> 01:08:43,620
It was like a cowboy film.
682
01:08:44,954 --> 01:08:49,959
In the middle, there was a house
that was larger than the rest.
683
01:08:50,126 --> 01:08:52,211
It may have belonged to the mayor.
684
01:08:52,670 --> 01:08:59,010
And when the people ran into this house,
that house was also set on fire.
685
01:08:59,510 --> 01:09:06,142
When the people inside
could no longer stand the heat and smoke,
686
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:09,937
they ran out of the house.
687
01:09:10,021 --> 01:09:14,150
Machine guns had been set up outside,
688
01:09:14,484 --> 01:09:18,488
and as the people ran outside,
they were just cut down.
689
01:09:19,322 --> 01:09:23,660
The whole village was wiped out.
690
01:09:24,577 --> 01:09:29,332
Women and children and men
691
01:09:29,666 --> 01:09:32,251
who were just…
692
01:09:33,044 --> 01:09:34,045
Yeah
693
01:09:34,712 --> 01:09:39,759
They would have been burned alive
if they had stayed in there,
694
01:09:39,842 --> 01:09:42,345
and if they came out, they were shot.
695
01:09:44,263 --> 01:09:46,974
What was the role
of the medical personnel?
696
01:09:47,141 --> 01:09:50,770
We had no role there.
We never got the chance.
697
01:09:51,062 --> 01:09:55,733
If a grenade had been thrown
698
01:09:55,817 --> 01:10:01,406
and it had injured a few Hungarian
SS officers, then perhaps…
699
01:10:01,489 --> 01:10:05,201
-If the SS men had been hurt--
-Yes.
700
01:10:05,535 --> 01:10:08,871
Why did your officer not write a report?
701
01:10:11,791 --> 01:10:15,211
I don't know, I can't say.
702
01:10:17,797 --> 01:10:20,007
Perhaps, they didn't want a report.
703
01:10:20,508 --> 01:10:21,843
What do you mean?
704
01:10:22,093 --> 01:10:26,764
If it isn't in the archives,
it does not exist.
705
01:10:30,727 --> 01:10:34,689
And then we withdrew further
with the tank
706
01:10:35,189 --> 01:10:40,153
and we drove through a village
which was engulfed in flames.
707
01:10:41,154 --> 01:10:43,489
And I didn't know that this…
708
01:10:43,698 --> 01:10:46,617
I didn't know about
the "scorched earth" order.
709
01:10:47,910 --> 01:10:50,037
Hitler instigated
a "scorched earth" policy.
710
01:10:50,163 --> 01:10:54,375
It was the Führer's order
711
01:10:55,084 --> 01:10:58,921
that no house fall
into the hands of the Russians.
712
01:10:59,756 --> 01:11:04,177
He hoped the Russian advance
could be slowed down that way.
713
01:11:08,139 --> 01:11:12,852
Yes, it was cruel,
but I did not care who was burned.
714
01:11:47,220 --> 01:11:51,599
You said that you are ashamed
to be German? Is that correct?
715
01:11:52,058 --> 01:11:53,684
No, I didn't say that.
716
01:11:54,101 --> 01:12:00,483
I am ashamed today
that I joined this organization,
717
01:12:00,733 --> 01:12:04,737
that I was proud to serve
in the Leibstandarte,
718
01:12:04,904 --> 01:12:07,240
and that I was proud to bear this tattoo.
719
01:12:07,615 --> 01:12:13,037
And that our leader, the hero,
hid in his bunker like a coward,
720
01:12:13,329 --> 01:12:17,166
and shot himself to escape responsibility.
721
01:12:17,708 --> 01:12:23,548
Adolf and his clique brought us disaster.
722
01:12:24,006 --> 01:12:29,095
They caused us to lose our homeland.
723
01:12:30,137 --> 01:12:31,848
And I lost my honor.
724
01:12:32,098 --> 01:12:33,850
-And what?
-My honor!
725
01:12:36,602 --> 01:12:39,313
But you were full of honor
and pride back then.
726
01:12:40,064 --> 01:12:42,358
-What was I?
-If you'd kept your honor…
727
01:12:42,984 --> 01:12:47,697
You are ashamed now that you had
the honor of standing for your fatherland?
728
01:12:48,489 --> 01:12:50,908
-I don't understand.
-No, he's ashamed that…
729
01:12:51,117 --> 01:12:55,621
I'm ashamed of the crimes
that were committed.
730
01:12:56,163 --> 01:13:00,042
To stand up for the fatherland
is something completely different.
731
01:13:01,669 --> 01:13:05,298
Everybody goes soft on camera.
732
01:13:05,423 --> 01:13:07,675
Think about it.
733
01:13:08,050 --> 01:13:13,764
The majority cheered
when they bombed London and Coventry.
734
01:13:14,432 --> 01:13:17,476
Even knowing that women
and children were killed.
735
01:13:18,561 --> 01:13:23,357
These are the consequences
of letting ourselves be seduced.
736
01:13:23,524 --> 01:13:26,819
-No.
-Of course that's the result.
737
01:13:28,070 --> 01:13:33,618
The concentration camps in Germany,
the destruction of Warsaw…
738
01:13:34,035 --> 01:13:38,706
Wherever you go today,
you have to feel ashamed!
739
01:13:39,540 --> 01:13:41,959
Anybody in this room
with a weakness of character
740
01:13:42,084 --> 01:13:45,504
will now think, "Shit, I'm German.
What am I going to do now?"
741
01:13:45,671 --> 01:13:47,715
That's what you're doing right now.
742
01:13:47,840 --> 01:13:51,928
You are judging people, even though
you've just said that it's not our fault.
743
01:13:52,178 --> 01:13:55,556
Somebody with a weakness
of character will think,
744
01:13:55,681 --> 01:13:58,517
"Oh no, I am German.
I must be ashamed my whole life."
745
01:13:58,643 --> 01:14:02,146
Why don't you show your face?
746
01:14:02,438 --> 01:14:04,148
Why are you such a coward?
747
01:14:04,357 --> 01:14:07,652
Look at the camera,
and say what you think.
748
01:14:07,777 --> 01:14:08,903
You won't do that.
749
01:14:09,028 --> 01:14:12,782
Then I'll get a criminal conviction,
and be persecuted by the state.
750
01:14:12,990 --> 01:14:15,952
I say you are one of them!
751
01:14:16,118 --> 01:14:18,079
Why are you hiding?
752
01:14:18,204 --> 01:14:21,415
Because I'll be made out to be a criminal.
753
01:14:21,499 --> 01:14:24,043
-Why? You won't be…
-Of course I will.
754
01:14:24,210 --> 01:14:25,336
That's rubbish.
755
01:14:25,461 --> 01:14:28,798
In your eyes, I'm a criminal,
just like your old comrades.
756
01:14:28,965 --> 01:14:32,259
Then I would have to be afraid
that Nazis will set my house on fire.
757
01:14:32,385 --> 01:14:34,053
What nonsense.
758
01:14:34,679 --> 01:14:36,806
-Shouldn't I?
-I don't believe it, really.
759
01:14:37,056 --> 01:14:38,933
When I speak so openly.
760
01:14:39,058 --> 01:14:44,063
You should be afraid that some Albanian
stabs you on the public transport.
761
01:14:44,230 --> 01:14:47,316
You should be afraid of that,
not of your own kind.
762
01:14:47,483 --> 01:14:50,653
I'm getting agitated but, really,
one should stay calm.
763
01:14:50,736 --> 01:14:53,656
Yeah, but you're not doing it, either.
764
01:14:53,781 --> 01:14:55,074
That's enough.
765
01:14:59,453 --> 01:15:02,206
I belonged to a murderous organization.
766
01:15:04,917 --> 01:15:06,502
What else was it?
767
01:15:07,253 --> 01:15:08,754
What else was it?
768
01:15:08,921 --> 01:15:10,297
Innocent women--
769
01:15:10,423 --> 01:15:16,012
One can think that
one's actions are wrong,
770
01:15:16,137 --> 01:15:17,638
that they're very wrong.
771
01:15:17,847 --> 01:15:24,812
But innocent women?
Or because they were Jewish or Gypsies?
772
01:15:25,062 --> 01:15:30,860
Or because they were weak, physically,
or because they were sickly?
773
01:15:31,360 --> 01:15:33,696
They were killed with an injection.
Euthanasia.
774
01:15:33,779 --> 01:15:36,615
I remember a man called Franz Lemke.
775
01:15:36,824 --> 01:15:39,493
We used to tease him as a kid.
776
01:15:39,785 --> 01:15:41,579
One day, he was gone.
777
01:15:41,746 --> 01:15:45,958
It turned out that they injected him
in Landsberg. Gone.
778
01:15:46,417 --> 01:15:51,672
We were told that those who were
"unworthy of life"
779
01:15:52,798 --> 01:15:53,841
had to be destroyed.
780
01:15:53,924 --> 01:15:55,593
"Unworthy of life."
781
01:15:56,594 --> 01:15:58,971
We carried it out to perfection.
782
01:15:59,096 --> 01:16:03,059
We planned it at the Wannsee Conference,
here in this very house,
783
01:16:03,309 --> 01:16:06,604
around a table just like this one.
784
01:16:06,771 --> 01:16:08,898
In comfort, over some coffee.
785
01:16:09,190 --> 01:16:15,362
They decided how the Jews,
women and children, were to be killed.
786
01:16:15,529 --> 01:16:19,742
By this horrid method.
I cannot be proud of that.
787
01:16:20,951 --> 01:16:22,787
I am ashamed of that.
788
01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:26,999
It cannot be taken for granted
789
01:16:27,333 --> 01:16:33,255
that a Jew would want to talk
to an SS man like me,
790
01:16:33,547 --> 01:16:37,301
a man who was convinced
that what Adolf did was right.
791
01:16:37,593 --> 01:16:39,720
Think about what that means.
792
01:16:39,929 --> 01:16:45,226
I met 23 old German Jews.
793
01:16:45,476 --> 01:16:48,437
Germans. Their fathers were in the war.
794
01:16:48,562 --> 01:16:52,483
An old Jewish lady
over 80 years old told me,
795
01:16:52,817 --> 01:16:57,530
"My father was in the First World War.
He received medals."
796
01:16:57,696 --> 01:17:01,659
"He did not want to believe
that the Nazis would kill him."
797
01:17:01,826 --> 01:17:04,703
"He refused to flee Germany."
798
01:17:04,954 --> 01:17:09,083
You can imagine what happened.
799
01:17:09,375 --> 01:17:16,340
This was too much for me.
800
01:17:17,049 --> 01:17:18,884
I believe that.
801
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:23,556
But I believe it is important
to talk to young people like you.
802
01:17:23,681 --> 01:17:28,811
I ask only this of you:
Do not allow yourself to be blinded.
803
01:17:54,420 --> 01:17:56,005
Are you still proud today
804
01:17:56,172 --> 01:17:58,799
that you were a member
of the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler?
805
01:17:59,091 --> 01:18:00,384
Of course.
806
01:18:02,219 --> 01:18:04,305
Not just anybody could join it.
807
01:18:06,807 --> 01:18:08,267
You mean it was…?
808
01:18:08,767 --> 01:18:09,935
An elite.
809
01:18:12,396 --> 01:18:13,898
You could say that.
810
01:18:18,777 --> 01:18:24,408
Are you willing to accept
that the Leibstandarte was involved
811
01:18:24,783 --> 01:18:27,244
in the murder of the Jews and others?
812
01:18:27,369 --> 01:18:30,539
How can you say that this is an elite
in a moral sense?
813
01:18:30,706 --> 01:18:35,628
They weren't involved in those murders.
814
01:18:36,712 --> 01:18:37,922
But the SS?
815
01:18:38,339 --> 01:18:42,092
Maybe. I don't know.
816
01:18:42,259 --> 01:18:43,928
I never witnessed it.
817
01:18:44,053 --> 01:18:47,514
Will you acknowledge
818
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:51,977
that the SS was a criminal organization?
819
01:18:52,478 --> 01:18:54,521
-No.
-You won't accept that?
820
01:18:54,647 --> 01:18:55,940
I won't accept that.
821
01:18:56,857 --> 01:19:02,655
I would sully myself
if I were to admit to that.
822
01:19:03,489 --> 01:19:04,740
And I don't want that.
823
01:19:04,907 --> 01:19:11,330
The entire SS was recognized
as a criminal organization
824
01:19:11,622 --> 01:19:13,832
at the Nuremberg trials.
825
01:19:14,333 --> 01:19:16,710
But not by a German court.
826
01:19:17,294 --> 01:19:21,048
So, I will not accept that.
827
01:19:24,301 --> 01:19:27,554
So, you are saying
that the reports that came out later
828
01:19:27,638 --> 01:19:32,142
about the murder of the Jews
in the extermination camps…
829
01:19:32,559 --> 01:19:34,687
-It's said to be six million.
-That's a joke.
830
01:19:34,853 --> 01:19:36,981
One million, maybe a little more,
in Auschwitz.
831
01:19:37,106 --> 01:19:38,107
Yes.
832
01:19:38,482 --> 01:19:40,609
I don't believe it.
833
01:19:41,485 --> 01:19:44,154
I will not believe it. It can't be.
834
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:47,741
Today they say…
835
01:19:48,158 --> 01:19:52,913
Excuse me, but it's the Jew
who puts it that way.
836
01:19:53,539 --> 01:19:57,418
The scale of it that is claimed today,
837
01:19:58,502 --> 01:20:00,045
I deny that too.
838
01:20:00,838 --> 01:20:03,507
I deny it. It didn't happen.
839
01:20:04,174 --> 01:20:08,220
I can't imagine that, back home,
840
01:20:08,929 --> 01:20:12,808
so many horrible things happened.
841
01:20:16,395 --> 01:20:17,521
I don't know.
842
01:20:21,108 --> 01:20:28,073
After the war, the majority of those
under Nazism regularly said
843
01:20:28,657 --> 01:20:30,868
firstly, "I didn't know about it,"
844
01:20:31,368 --> 01:20:33,412
secondly, "I didn't take part in it,"
845
01:20:33,954 --> 01:20:39,793
and, thirdly, "If I had known,
I would have acted differently."
846
01:20:40,252 --> 01:20:42,254
Everybody tried to distance themselves
847
01:20:42,713 --> 01:20:46,592
from the massacres committed under Nazism,
848
01:20:46,717 --> 01:20:50,554
especially those committed
during the final years.
849
01:20:51,972 --> 01:20:57,061
And that's why so many said,
"I wasn't a Nazi."
850
01:20:59,646 --> 01:21:01,940
An SS officer was lying next to me.
851
01:21:03,067 --> 01:21:07,321
And an American officer
came to his bed and he asked him,
852
01:21:07,738 --> 01:21:10,741
"Are you a Nazi?"
853
01:21:11,867 --> 01:21:13,660
And he said, "Yes, I am."
854
01:21:14,870 --> 01:21:19,750
The American officer
shook this SS officer's hand and said,
855
01:21:20,042 --> 01:21:23,212
"You're the first German
to admit that he was a Nazi."
856
01:21:23,379 --> 01:21:25,464
"It's a pleasure to meet you."
857
01:21:27,383 --> 01:21:29,885
Later, I asked myself
what I would have said…
858
01:21:31,428 --> 01:21:34,556
to this American officer,
if he had asked me, "Are you Nazi?"
859
01:21:34,723 --> 01:21:36,517
Probably the same as everybody else.
860
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:40,813
"I was forced to," "I had to join
the Hitler Youth," and so on.
861
01:21:42,773 --> 01:21:44,566
I wouldn't have said I was a Nazi.
862
01:21:51,407 --> 01:21:56,036
We were, at the very least,
complicit in other people's crimes.
863
01:21:58,372 --> 01:22:03,627
We can't be accused
of being active perpetrators.
864
01:22:04,294 --> 01:22:05,838
We didn't do that.
865
01:22:06,672 --> 01:22:12,094
We didn't beat or imprison anyone
or anything like that.
866
01:22:13,387 --> 01:22:15,139
But we went along with it.
867
01:22:18,767 --> 01:22:24,356
How can you claim
that you didn't imprison anyone
868
01:22:24,565 --> 01:22:29,319
when you were a camp guard,
a member of the SS Death's Head.
869
01:22:29,862 --> 01:22:32,239
A valid question.
870
01:22:33,532 --> 01:22:35,742
A very valid question.
871
01:22:37,077 --> 01:22:40,330
That's when complicity
begins to turn into guilt.
872
01:22:41,331 --> 01:22:43,250
That's why I got out.
873
01:22:44,376 --> 01:22:47,921
At what point does complicity
make you a perpetrator?
874
01:22:51,758 --> 01:22:56,805
Complicity begins by going there
in the first place
875
01:22:57,055 --> 01:22:59,433
and not turned around straight away.
876
01:23:01,643 --> 01:23:03,103
We didn't dare.
877
01:23:08,984 --> 01:23:11,278
Nobody walked away.
878
01:23:15,866 --> 01:23:20,871
Let's say there was an order
to exterminate the Jews.
879
01:23:22,164 --> 01:23:26,710
If I was a policeman or a soldier…
880
01:23:28,086 --> 01:23:30,088
I would be forced
881
01:23:31,381 --> 01:23:36,386
to help round up the Jews
882
01:23:36,637 --> 01:23:39,389
and take them to a concentration camp.
883
01:23:40,098 --> 01:23:41,517
So what does that make me?
884
01:23:42,559 --> 01:23:47,064
If I go voluntarily,
I am definitely a perpetrator.
885
01:23:47,856 --> 01:23:51,902
But if I am ordered to do it?
886
01:23:53,153 --> 01:23:57,574
Am I already a perpetrator
if I say, "Jews, move along?"
887
01:23:58,492 --> 01:24:01,912
I don't know.
I can't answer that question.
888
01:24:02,204 --> 01:24:03,664
What else could I have done?
889
01:24:03,872 --> 01:24:08,252
If I had refused, I could have been
put up against the wall and shot.
890
01:24:09,127 --> 01:24:13,006
Did you yourself
ever hear of this happening?
891
01:24:13,131 --> 01:24:14,508
No, never.
892
01:24:14,591 --> 01:24:17,386
There is no record of it
in the literature, either.
893
01:24:17,719 --> 01:24:19,263
I never heard of it.
894
01:24:19,972 --> 01:24:23,350
If you had received such an order,
what would you have done?
895
01:24:23,559 --> 01:24:27,980
Yes, that is a good question.
896
01:24:29,147 --> 01:24:32,484
If 99 men had said "yes" before me,
897
01:24:32,776 --> 01:24:34,987
I might have agreed to it as well.
898
01:24:41,451 --> 01:24:45,872
The main responsibility for
the mass murder of Jews in World War II--
899
01:24:45,956 --> 01:24:49,626
In the Second World War,
the blame remains with the Germans.
900
01:24:50,627 --> 01:24:57,134
It is the stigma they will bear
for the rest of their lives.
901
01:24:57,634 --> 01:25:01,888
But I don't feel part
of the collective guilt of the Germans.
902
01:25:02,681 --> 01:25:05,559
So who is to blame for these atrocities?
903
01:25:05,767 --> 01:25:09,521
God will be the judge of that.
904
01:25:09,855 --> 01:25:12,816
-Put the good Lord aside.
-No.
905
01:25:12,941 --> 01:25:15,611
I would like to hear your opinion.
906
01:25:15,777 --> 01:25:16,903
Yes, but--
907
01:25:17,070 --> 01:25:19,531
The good Lord doesn't sit opposite me.
908
01:25:19,656 --> 01:25:22,659
-No, but my opinion--
-I can't ask him the question.
909
01:25:22,826 --> 01:25:24,620
That means I'd like you to…
910
01:25:24,828 --> 01:25:29,541
But I feel-- I'm ashamed as a German.
911
01:25:31,752 --> 01:25:36,006
Because something so cruel
happened in the German name.
912
01:25:36,757 --> 01:25:38,050
With such meticulousness.
913
01:25:38,216 --> 01:25:41,053
With such bookkeeping accuracy.
914
01:25:43,055 --> 01:25:47,059
When it comes to judging,
915
01:25:47,643 --> 01:25:53,273
I would differentiate
between those who did it and…
916
01:25:54,566 --> 01:25:56,818
Actually, they were all perpetrators.
917
01:25:58,987 --> 01:26:00,530
They were all perpetrators.
918
01:26:01,406 --> 01:26:03,992
The concentration camp guard…
919
01:26:04,451 --> 01:26:06,870
would you consider him a perpetrator?
920
01:26:10,457 --> 01:26:14,211
Well, yes. I was one of them.
921
01:26:16,213 --> 01:26:17,673
I feel like a perpetrator.
922
01:26:18,632 --> 01:26:23,136
I've always said that we didn't know,
but in the end, we are perpetrators too.
923
01:26:24,721 --> 01:26:25,931
We let it happen.
924
01:26:27,683 --> 01:26:30,060
We should have got to the bottom of it.
925
01:26:31,061 --> 01:26:33,563
So, in the end, we are perpetrators too.
926
01:26:37,734 --> 01:26:40,821
Do I consider myself a perpetrator?
927
01:26:45,492 --> 01:26:47,452
That's such a broad question.
928
01:26:55,043 --> 01:26:57,421
I wouldn't have been a perpetrator…
929
01:26:58,922 --> 01:27:03,677
if I had had the courage
930
01:27:03,885 --> 01:27:07,514
to say "no" at any point.
931
01:27:08,724 --> 01:27:13,395
So, you could say that by not doing that,
I am a perpetrator.
932
01:27:15,230 --> 01:27:17,274
That's an easy answer, of course.
933
01:27:18,984 --> 01:27:22,112
But I can't be convicted as a perpetrator,
934
01:27:22,279 --> 01:27:28,243
because, really, I was
an ideological perpetrator and not a…
935
01:27:35,584 --> 01:27:39,921
But let's finish now, shall we?
936
01:28:10,786 --> 01:28:13,580
So, you are not willing to blame Hitler?
937
01:28:13,705 --> 01:28:14,748
No.
938
01:28:15,123 --> 01:28:17,709
So, to you, Hitler was not responsible?
939
01:28:24,966 --> 01:28:26,760
I will not blame him.
940
01:28:27,093 --> 01:28:28,512
You will not blame him?
941
01:28:29,763 --> 01:28:31,223
Do you still honor him?
942
01:28:31,807 --> 01:28:34,309
I certainly do. The idea was correct.
943
01:28:37,604 --> 01:28:40,023
And the murder of the Jews,
was that also correct?
944
01:28:40,273 --> 01:28:41,274
That's what Hitler--
945
01:28:41,441 --> 01:28:43,985
-No, I don't share that opinion.
-Sorry?
946
01:28:44,277 --> 01:28:47,531
I don't share the opinion
that they should have been murdered.
947
01:28:49,825 --> 01:28:53,537
They should have been driven out
to another country,
948
01:28:53,745 --> 01:28:55,747
where they could rule themselves.
949
01:28:59,543 --> 01:29:04,297
That would have saved
a great deal of grief.
69974
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.