All language subtitles for The Lust for Libya How a Nation was Torn Apart The Big Picture.eng(translated).eng(translated)

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October 2011 : el Muammar al-gaddafi is

drugged from a drainpipe beaten and

killed by Libyan revolutionaries the

body of Libya's self-proclaimed brother

leader laid out in a refrigerator floor

laying bare the end of his 42 we're

cruel but at the very moment a new dawn

bacon Libya was to suffer the revenge of

his own history

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what's happening in Libya now we have

two governments seems like a big mess

the whole country is ruled by militias

the struggle between these militias who

will take more power we are now deeply

embroiled in conflict in divisions in

violence everybody wants to have his

share of authority and his share of the

money there's no central government per

se which really has control so it become

really the front for a number of

militias Libya is trying to shape itself

again but it's a country which is vast

and it cannot be ruled centrally just

from one city like Tripoli it's the

process of this integration of state of

Libya it became now what we can call the

territory of Libya it's no more state of

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the history of Libya is the history of

the foreign powers who ruled Libya we

have definitions come over to Libya we

have the Greeks came over and set up

cities we have the Romans and then we

have the Turks for almost 400 years it

has been continuously a place of

conflict between the civilization

between countries so it was under

occupation by every power that there is

Libya invaded seized and occupied for

millennia was for much of his history no

single unified land there was Cyrenaica

there was Tripolitania Fezzan and those

also was not were not united for a long

time

almost a thousand years of Arab rule

left a shared Islamic tradition across

the three regions Tripolitania and the

West Cyrenaica in the east and for Xan

in the south but they remain distinct

separated by geography history and

identity

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by the early 20th century Italian

colonizers would take over from ottoman

turk occupiers and look to create a

unified libya all of their own when the

italians invaded Libya they actually

viewed the country as the forth coast of

Italy they came with the idea that

Libya's is part of Italy

beginning in 1911 Italian occupation was

brutal and met by an organised

resistance from Cernik and the East this

resistance had its roots in the order of

Mohammed Ben Ali Sanusi a Sufi scholar

but established religious and political

institutions across Eastern and parts of

southern Libya the Italian faced civic

society that was organized that has its

own institution its own values that

movement produce charismatic competent

non corrupt leaders like Omar Mukhtar

Omar al Mokhtar a leading Sanusi Imam

led the fight against the Italian

invaders but in 1931 after two decades

of a targeted guerrilla campaign

umbrella dar was captured by the Italian

army and hanged to death the event was

more than a leader being executed it

made so many Libyans like they became

somehow submissive to the Italians to

the extent that they they they think the

former after can be killed such a way

there's no way to fight the Italians the

Italians would win the fight against

Libyan resistance

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but after their defeat in the second

world war in 1943 that lose Libya to

British and French control

Italy's loss however was the sunna see

orders again in 1951 Libya became the

first country granted independence by

the United Nations creating the kingdom

of Libya with the Emir of Seneca at

recess Sanusi as king Libyan

independence was created as a compromise

the Western leaders the urban leaders of

off of Tripolitania agreed to accept

King Amira Therese as the king of Libya

in exchange for keeping the country

unified he was from the eastern part he

was in exile in Egypt when he came back

with the army which would help of the

British king we three is to a certain

extent was was there man Olivier so it

was a country that really did not exist

in terms of sovereignty the United

States France and the UK were actually

running the affairs

bassam be behind the scenes King

giedrius granted permission for Britain

and the United States to build military

bases in Libya and when oil was

discovered under the Libyan sands in

1959 British and American companies were

first to be granted concessions Libya

would now experience the transformative

power of oil

Libya began to really change from one of

the poorest countries in the world to

one of the richest in Africa before the

oil the extended families and the tribal

leaders had their sons in the army

because it was the guaranteed for their

future because there was no business

after the oil having a small store

anywhere will give you a salary better

than going to the army own money was

shifting Libya's established order as

the Arab world wasn't ruled the

revolutionary times embodied by one man

above all Egypt's leader Jamel Abdul

Nasser there was a huge wave of

pan-arabism and Nasser's and military

coos were taking place in Iraq in Syria

in Sudan and Nasser was inspiring young

Arabs to go into the army and then plan

and plot military course to change

regimes to change what NASA used to

characterize as reactionary regimes

pro-western regimes the army and the

nationalists and the activist students

began to agitate against the monarchy

and the elite agitation would turn to

revolution on September 1st 1969

Adri sister Lucy was ousted while

receiving medical treatment in Turkey

the group of military men who depose the

king were headed by a little-known 27

year old officer called Muammar

al-gaddafi

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when the salmon

he was riding on an anti-western

anti-imperialist way the first thing he

did is he terminated the agreement for

the military bases both an American base

in Tripoli and a British base in Tobruk

it was a very popular movement because

anti-colonialism nationalism call for

more egalitarian society or more

modernization but it's not a coincidence

that only two of the twelve members of

the council that led the coup in 1969

came from an eminent elitist background

most of them came from a lower

middle-class background by taking these

nationalist goals their regime was very

popular also above all you come very

strongly in the side of the Palestinian

called for justice in Palestine Arab

nationalism support for the Palestinian

cause against Israel and an anti

colonial mission to drive Western

interests out of Libya these were the

pillars of the new regime headed by

Mohamed Gaddafi who having promoted

himself to the rank of culinary looked

to make even greater changes he took

over the banks in the Italian banks Bank

idioma

bank from became Libya's central bank at

the same time he was very well engaged

with his people locally so he would

visit villages he would visit towns he

would meet people new almost every day

at the same time the rate of change

inside the lives of people in terms of

infrastructure building roads building

schools building hospitals clinics and

so on and so forth

never stopped

they had a very ambitious plan for

nationalizing some big businesses and

also taking over the oil industry in

March 1970 the Gaddafi regime created

the state-owned National Oil Corporation

the NOC to take direct control of

Libya's oil production and distribution

the NOC replaced the DRI's era Libyan

Petroleum Corporation moving the

administration of oil from Benghazi in

the east where the vast majority of

Libya's oil fields were located to a new

permanent location in the West entry

Polly the heart of Gaddafi's power three

years later he nationalized 51% to full

assets of foreign oil companies

operating in Libya then in 1973 war

broke out between Israel and Egypt along

with Syria an embargo by the oil cartel

OPEC against countries supporting the

Israelis led to a quadrupling of the

price of oil

for the remainder of the decade Gaddafi

would use this new money and new power

to lay out his vision for a new Libya

what was his ideology what did he set

out to achieve exactly for the living

people at the time objective objectively

speaking of course when the defeat came

he came with the same rhetoric that

Abdul Nassir Bush's career steerer Kiowa

which is liberty or freedom socialism

and an Arab unity and also he went to

the same thing that he deliberate

Palestine

of course this resonates with the Libyan

people and also at the same time he

introduced himself as a very simple

person that he would go and he will sit

with the students in the university and

he will drive his own car so because a

person he's from them he's from among

them so he got a lot of support and at

that time what are your personal

recollections of what he was like he was

as dr. Lucia Gore said very simple and

he came with no ideology he found what

the street wanted and he had a lot of

love I remember he came to the

University we discussing with him the

law of the of the Student Union and he

came with the military fatigue so one of

the students told him hey you know

that's Envy in the university

legislation you're not supposed to come

in with this kind of uniform so he took

his Volkswagen went back to his place

changed and came and spent the night

with us to the three o'clock in the

morning and we ate together

macaroni that we made there so I think

this is the original Gaddafi is the

simple guy that he does a lot of

thinking he has ambitions but at the

time he was not vicious I actually

recall as a young boy three times what I

met with Gaddafi or interacted with him

in early 1970 I was in high school in

Tripoli he came once to our school in

his own yellow Volkswagen alone no

security no bodyguards he drove all the

way

inside to our schoolyard and we all came

around and surrounded his car he came

out we met with him we started chatting

with him he was so modest and

down-to-earth and wanted to be directly

in touch with people he was like that so

it seems a very popular person at the

beginning within a few years

yeah became very unpopular and and

that's the question what changed him how

did he become that brutal autocratic

ruler in Libya

well I think I think believe clearly I

mean he especially have a debt abdullah

sir he became he feels that he is the

leader of the Arab world and he's

entitled to it and he started with of

course eliminating his group around him

the mesoscale Torah the the council

spring council of the revolution and and

of course he want to introduce something

new

first of all he cancelled the

constitution and this has happened in

1973 and also he announced the the

Cultural Revolution and of course based

on that he would so many of the students

who ever in any direction and interpret

into prison but he did something before

that he tried to bring all the

intellectuals from Libya who ever have

an opinion there and he made them speak

to be able to categorize them who they

are yes and which direction they are n

so 1973 he imprisoned everybody the

Communists the Socialists the Islamists

and all of them including why they were

including Mohammed Mohammed he was one

of those 1973 yes with everybody else as

a pan-arab a status well they looked for

an accusation what was the effect the

significance of the five political

points he declared in zwar in 1973 at

the time when you were arrested well he

found a dissent growing up dissent

inside the RCC dissent in the army and

he was not at the time with that grip on

it so he went to swara and he told us we

we will all leave power we give it to

the people

yes civilians to the civilians so he

went there and he deceived them so they

are all out but he is the leader of the

new revolution the popular revolution

and then of course to make it sound a

revolution it took us to jail so do you

think he has always had that idea of

becoming a dictator or was this a

reaction to a threat to his position and

power that changed him I think he said

it was growing he said no more well look

he didn't no more he never had the

education or experience to make him a

Democrat for us I'm not in power so I am

with democracy I don't know if I'll be

in power although I practice democracy

now where I live but they were coup

attempts assassination attempts is that

what made him really brutal let me let

me complete the idea so he had surplus

of money that he never thought of and

here he saw politicians from everywhere

I saw the head of the Liberal Party in

England came and tell him

Quorra Gaddafi you are the one who

teaches about freedom on Libyan TV

because he was treated well there you

think these sort of things changed him I

I think I think if we go back to the few

years before the coup Gaddafi was a very

dominant figure with all his companions

and colleagues which he gathered around

himself to to actually do the to do the

coup he was not going to accept

criticism he was not going to accept

anybody even from the closest of his

colleagues who actually did the coup

with him to force him to change his mind

or policy and anything and and I think

his his it was in his personality and

his in his character always to be

autocratic and to be dominating and he

will not give in to other opinions so

the precipitations for a dictator were

were there in his character and as as

things moved on and he started getting

challenges not just from his own group

Adam and Hassan Moussa

Ahmed a military coup attempt in

December 1970 or 1969 sorry and then the

student movement were very expressive

against him I remember he used to come

to Tribune University and the students

were very vocal very brave telling him

look you and your colleagues the army

officer you should go back to your

barracks we want civilian rule so as he

had rejections from the studio

from intellectuals from army officers he

started to become very brutal to protect

his dominance as his control over power

he basically took affirmed a grip of the

country every aspect of the country's

life and I think that was the first

clear sign that Gaddafi was heading to

be an absolute dictator of Libya

despite growing isolation Libya

continues to pursue policies which are a

unique mix of strict Muslim rules and

Marxist ideology Gaddafi established the

Jamahiriya fate of the masses a system

of people's committees and the general

People's Congress this was part of

Gaddafi's third Universal theory that he

laid out in his green book he himself

would claim to have no official role in

the Jamahiriya but would remain the

commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces

and go by a new title brother leader I

think it was it was to a certain point

successful experience to a certain limit

it was not completely independent system

from Gaddafi he's not president

originally a Republican there's no

Republic and he is not a minister not a

prime minister he is the leader of

revolution which is kind of ongoing

process that never ends it was diluted

and subvert it and became a way of

really enhancing the mobilization and

cramping and punishing dissident voices

in Libyan society the army was first

there two unions were purged the Student

Union was first the other independent

Association were burst and everything

became either you are a revolutionary or

counter revolutionary and you could see

that in formal institutions the security

apparatus the secret police the the

so-called Revolutionary Committees began

to dominate the formal institutions of

the state what Gaddafi's actually doing

is working very hard to create a

personalized centralized state in which

really there are no proper institutions

and he is the center of everything

Gaddafi was hollowing out Libya's

political structures who rose to real

power would lead only to him and all

dissent brutally repressed

the whole power became in his hand and

that's why he start really become a very

vicious against anyone who will even

voice anything different from his

opinion the multi think of that you'll

be in prison if you're not in prison

you're behind in the streets

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that's where Libya have seen probably

one of the most vicious hand in

campaigns can ever happen twas it during

the month of ramadhan that used to be

done just around m'lip and his TV

broadcasted and they've handed those

young people in their own cities so to

show them and also at the same time they

go and they destroyed their homes while

Muammar al-gaddafi exercised brute force

at home his authority

didn't extend to either Arab fs

following the death of Egypt's German

Abdel Nasser in 1970 Gaddafi had seen

himself as heir apparent to advance

pan-arabism

but not a successor and were said that

had sidelined Gadhafi during the war

with Israel and ignored the Libyan

leader as Egypt fell in line with

Western interests signing a peace treaty

with Israel Gadhafi took this as a

personal insult and a betrayal of the

Arab cause

he's a leader with few friends in the

area the man who dreamed of uniting the

Arab world is perhaps discovering that

no one shares his vision anymore Muammar

al-gaddafi resented being sidelined in

Arab affairs

now at the beginning of the 1980s he'd

looked to the wider world for new

purpose

he became literally against everybody

especially in the Arab world because he

felt that all of them had betrayed the

the Arab cause and he is the champion of

the Arab cause it is the responsibility

of America must be outside of this area

it is aggression it is that so that's

why he starts supporting a lot of the

movements in different parts of the

world he was accused of supporting so

many different various organizations

from the Irish Republican Army

yeah IRA in the UK to the Red Brigades

in Italy or Mandela in South Africa at

the time when it was only Gaddafi and

people like him and Castro and yes

Arafat who actually talked about Mandela

negative positively and supported him

Gaddafi might have seen himself as a

champion of a global anti imperialist

struggle but for much of the West he was

a supporter of worldwide terror and then

in December 1985 simultaneous attacks on

airports in Rome and Vienna claimed the

lives of 19 civilians including five

Americans

the following year a West Berlin

nightclub was born killing three people

to wear American servicemen ladies and

gentlemen our president of United States

European intelligence agencies suggested

Palestinian groups based in Syria we're

most likely responsible for the attacks

for the US however the blame lay

squarely please be seated with one man

Gaddafi's long-standing involvement in

terrorism is well-documented and there's

irrefutable evidence of his role in

these attacks Gaddafi of course was

already hugely projected as a monster as

it turns if you say he's a terrorist

everybody will agree so it's easy to

throw them at him and it will stick and

he did deny it he didn't say that we are

behind it but he didn't deny that idea

and began to say this is a war against

colonialism and imperialism the leaders

of the Western world have called you a

terrorist

Colonel your government is a terrorist

government the Reagan is the biggest

terrorist in the world this Mad Dog of

the Middle East has a goal of a world

revolution Muslim fundamentalist

revolution Reagan named them the Mad Dog

of the Middle East so good efening

answered them on the same day naming him

as the Mad Dog of the international

Zionism movement and of course it was

very it was the lowest the law of

diplomacy

in April 1986 diplomacy between the

United States and Libya came to a

violent end today we have done what we

had to do if necessary we shall do it

again

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the United States decided to punish him

once and for all

actually by trying to kill him

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they send huge airplanes and bombed

locations in Tripoli and his own house

his own headquarters in all Bureau

office but um we also had lost some

civilians that including children

including babies it is a clear and blunt

attempt by the Nazis leader of the free

world to assassinate somebody because

they don't like him

Gaddafi was from the Arab world and was

a suitable person to fight with because

after all Qaddafi had alienated almost

everyone so he was a perfect foil for

the Reagan administration Gaddafi's

reputation as the artists sponsor of

Terror was to once again make him the

prime suspect within 1988 an American

airliner was brought down over the

Scottish town of Lockerbie

killing all 259 people on board

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the evidence for Libya's direct

involvement in carrying out the

Lockerbie bombing was less than

conclusive but in 1992 pushed by the

United States Britain and France the

United Nations placed severe economic

and trade sanctions on Libya for his

alleged involvement led to so many

disruption of life it so many kind of

finishing sanctions economic sanctions

political sanctions even Bolivian

passport when your truffle was was a

kind of accusation in itself Libyans

completely were now enclosed inside

their country and they suffered for

years because because of his actions

after the the Lockerbie bombing the

sanctions came in and that really it

Qaddafi hard with me I think hit the

Libyan people hard Gaddafi was not

really affected by the embargo so al if

it doesn't even be who there have been

affected first and and with that his

grip on power really tightened as he was

looking to be an international leader

supporting all these different groups

around the world well by that time the

Libyan the situation in Libya became

marginal for him he's now a part of a

big international struggle he's fighting

against superpowers and he's not also a

puppet of the Russians he's against

communism and communist Olivia a prism

so now he's is a part of international

struggle you know the Libyans were

marginal for him and and he got engaged

in a battle that became you know like

the snowball against the West and the

West was working against him and that

affected the Libyan population in a neck

very negative way because it was more

dictatorship more oppression and

everybody against me he created an enemy

he created when he started with you know

supporting what he calls the liberation

movements so would you say he was

enjoying that role because he was

accused of a lot of terrorist attacks in

Vienna in Rome in Berlin

and he never used to deny any of it he

felt that Libya was too small for him he

wanted a bigger stage so he tried with

the Arab unity uniting the whole Arab as

we say from the Gulf to the ocean from

Bahrain to Morocco and he failed with

that so now he wanted the whole world to

be his stage

so he started supporting revolutionary

movements all around the world I recall

somebody telling me and this is exactly

accurate information that him in the 80s

there was a camp in Libya supervised by

something called the International

revolutionary Matata this camp had

17,000 trainees military trainees from

35 nationalities well the question is

including including Irish was was he to

the Latin America to Asia to all over

the world was he was he doing that

because he believed in it as a

revolutionary leader and so on or as mr.

Bashir said he created an enemy he

needed that sort of enemy I think both I

think he suffered from grandia's

illusions that actually he could rule

the world he could change regimes all

over the world and these regimes become

they emulate his own model and he will

be like the the mouse cheating of them

you know the that's one thing the other

thing I think he enjoyed this idea that

this this this this man the popular man

of the masses all over the world he's

taken on the imperialists he's taken on

the biggest imperialists in the world

which is the United States when the

terrorists attacked in Berlin happened

Ronald Reagan called Gaddafi the Mad Dog

of the Middle East so did the West need

someone like Gaddafi to be you know an

international villain as well was what

was in it for the West I think they want

to make an example of Gaddafi in the

region that if you go beyond your limits

then a clearly you can come and attack

you in your place so I think it does

that that's I think personally I think

he is the one who created this for

himself because he hid oh that he has to

become a real big player in the world

stage and of course he does not have he

doesn't have that power or the

or what will allow him to do such a

thing there I would like to add to this

why did Libya came up in the agenda of

the Americans 1979-1980

I was part of the ribbon opposition and

I had a meeting with a foreign agency

American foreign agency you know it was

imposed on me and they said we would

like to help you at the time what Reagan

won the election I can tell you now at

the time the war between Iraq and Iran

heightened and Iran threatened to stop

all the oil supplies from the Gulf Libya

for the United States and for Europe is

an oil political entity it's a supplier

when the supply from the Gulf is under

heat Libya becomes important for the

United States they wanted to topple him

put another regime that will bring Libya

back to good relation and higher oil

production and better relation it's the

same thing now it was convenient for the

American foreign policy to find a

maverick like Gaddafi and pick him as an

enemy and put all this blame of

international terrorism and all the

mischief is around the world on him and

I recall after the Lockerbie in 1988 and

we all know now with the hand side that

Lockerbie wasn't just the Libyan

component that was Iran involved there

was a group based in Syria involved and

if you have three bad boys you pick a

fight with the weakest one and this in

this case it was Gaddafi because at that

time it was not convenient to pick a

fight with Iran and it was not

convenient to pick a fight with Syria so

in that sense

Gaddafi played that role for

conveniently played that role for the

West and specially America

gaddafi eventually handed over the two

Libyan officials suspected of carrying

out the Lockerbie bombing but the

sanctions remained and fueled increasing

dissent against the regime one

organization the Libyan Islamic fighting

group formed by Mujahideen returning

from Afghanistan in the early 1990s

plotted to kill Libya's leader and

replaced the Jamahiriya with an Islamic

state it failed

crushed by Gaddafi's security forces

many of his members mostly hailing from

Libya's eastern region were locked up

without trial and his qualit conditions

in a Brazilian prison in Tripoli

[Music]

in june 1996 after being denied access

to their families and to lawyers a

mistreated by God's the inmates

protested some revolted some escaped in

the chaos an estimated one thousand two

hundred and seventy prisoners were

allegedly shot dead by prison guards and

the orders from Gaddafi's intelligence

chief though the facts of the incident

remained contested it became one of the

most notorious episodes of the Gaddafi

era that was one of the ugliest

massacres most brutal massacres under

the regime and I think in the long term

that haunted the regime twelve hundred

and 70 prisoners killed they have 12

hundred and seventy families many of

them were from Benghazi the families of

those killed in a Brazilian prison in

1996 started to voice their demands

those demands fell on deaf ears the

fallout from the alleged massacre at Abu

Salim prison was part of a growing

discontent simmering in Libya

but Qaddafi knew it was his troubles

with the West not least the UN sanctions

which threatened his authority at home

but then in 2003 the u.s. invaded Iraq

and changed the course of Libya's future

real change in course happened just

after the death of Saddam Hussein's son

and Mosul are they fahsai were killed by

the American Special Forces Gaddafi's

wife at the time she told them you know

if it's you you are free to do whatever

you want but I don't want this to happen

to my kids the logic of the so-called

war on terror led by the United States

meant that a man labeled a terrorist

could now be a friend of the West Libya

has begun the process of rejoining the

community of nations and Colonel Qadhafi

knows the way forward Gaddafi had been

warning Western powers for years about

these dangerous

Islamist terrorists and the problems of

Islamist terrorists and complained that

nobody ever listened to him and suddenly

the world woke up to the danger and the

enormity of the problem and suddenly

would it be useful to have an ally in

Tripoli Gaddafi would renounce his

support for illicit groups worldwide

give up his nascent nuclear weapons

program and pay compensation to the

families of those killed in attacks for

which Libya would take responsibility

he would also introduce a limited

program of reforms led by his son Saif

al-islam including the eventual release

of some of the political prisoners held

at Abu cell in prison with that all

sanctions were to be lifted please raise

their hands Libya was now back in the

international fold all of a sudden what

Raley called the Mad Dog

this despot this sponsor of terrorism

all over the world this supposedly

developer of lethal weapons became a

good guy that governments like the

British government and the American

government could do business with

leading the way to do business in

Tripoli was British Prime Minister Tony

Blair blessed visits in 2004 accompanied

by representatives of UK industry

culminated in the so-called deal in the

desert that included an exploration

agreement for anglo-dutch oil

conglomerate royal dutch/shell

worth more than six hundred million

dollars Libya's rehabilitation was

revealing his truth the West's top brass

looking after his own bottom line in

reaching out the hands of partnership

today we do not forget the past but we

do try in the light of the genuine

changes happening to move beyond them

one after another Western leaders went

to Libya offering the hand of friendship

multi-million dollar business deals and

the kind of legitimacy Muammar Gaddafi

had long forgotten from US Secretary of

State Condoleezza Rice two newly elected

French President Nicolas Sarkozy Tripoli

welcomed the West and the West jumped in

Gaddafi went almost 180 degrees in his

relationship with America purely out of

the fear of what the United States could

do to him it was very disparate for a

long time to have a good relationship

with United States and I think that that

what happened after he saw Saddam coming

out from that hole in the ground I think

a message very clear came to him from

the right States this is what can happen

to you unless you do this and this

because they want a political victory

for them and and the condition there

that you give up your nuclear program we

we started listening from Cheney people

and we used to know them that let's

start something called the constructive

engagement with Libya and they said one

condition that he gets rid of the was a

weapon of mass destruction

not because he's gonna use it but

because they might go to a terrorist

group and then we saw can delete the

rice visit in Tripoli we saw a lot of

world leaders like Berlusconi like

absolutely it started looking great for

them I think Tony Blair and George W

Bush and I remember this very well it

was very convenient for them because of

their failure in Iraq because of the big

lie that Saddam had WMDs what did Tony

player come out to say he say look

although we did not find them in Iraq

but actually we found them in Libya and

we managed to get rid of them in Libya

without a war so Fotolia leaders wanted

to promote that as a success story yeah

and it was very convenient for both for

Gaddafi to remain in power and to be

rehabilitated and for Tony Blair Andrew

and and W George W Bush to actually show

some sort of a success against the

background of their failure in Iraq

we saw a stream of Western companies

coming back to the view including

British as well as American oil

companies marathon came back

ConocoPhillips came back

British Petroleum came back shelf came

back and then they take him to the next

level of allowing them to visit him and

he was there in France in Paris with

Sarkozy and signing agreements with

their with the military companies with

the oil companies and all of that so now

clearly Gaddafi willing to buy himself

with the wealth of Libya would be

accepted in the West but as Gaddafi was

getting closer to the West

he was alienating himself from the Arab

world the destiny well our Arab subsidy

fee any man I know

manon understand Avila he has a clash

with King Abdullah of Saudi where he's

trying to imply that Abdullah is just a

Babbitt of the Americans there was also

a bad chemistry between him and prince

hamad of other there was a real bad

chemistry

they never felt comfortable with him

while Qaddafi burned bridges already

charred across the region he continued

to build bridges reaching out to

sub-saharan Africa in 2009 Muammar

Gaddafi was elected chairman of the

African Union he immediately vowed to

pursue his vision of pan-african unity

including a unified African army and a

single African currency all part

hoopha United States of Africa later

that same year

Gaddafi made his first ever visit to the

United States of America and took the

stage at his maiden United Nations

General Assembly

millena lemonade butter and I am near by

ucs a year just haven't invited David

yet Mia we stuck the [ __ ] over 37

million seven loser robbed far from

having been rehabilitated the man called

the Mad Dog of the Middle East by a US

president was showing his true colors

and baring his teeth at those who

believed they'd brought him to heel they

were trying to rehabilitate him and the

international community but if you see

his speech in front of the Arabic summit

and also in the in the UN it seemed like

he didn't change when he called the

Security Council the Council of course

when he came to the United Nation I

think that's what he destroyed all of

the hope that those countries they had

in him they showed they saw the real

Gaddafi that he's a person he thinks

that he is above the United Nations is

above the world and he is a person who

can't really dictate how this world

would work and and I think that was the

point when I said clearly this guy

there's no hope in him and of course

there's no hope I mean at least for the

Libyan people we knew that for 40 years

this just what this person has done it

has no interest in but to be the

dictator to be the authoritarian regime

that he has created yeah

I remember when he came to New York

before coming they declined the visas

for some of his delegation and when he

came there they treated him bad the

White House treated him bad even for the

dinners that President Obama called for

he was not invited and he tried to

challenge Obama by doing a dinner for

African leaders and of course nobody

showed up to his dinner you know so the

I asked one of his asila life I won't

say his name and he told me well it was

fear told me Gadhafi took a talk talked

out of fear it was almost impossible for

Gadhafi to change he is still branding

America as imperialist and the biggest

enemy of the world and at the same time

is working with the CIA helping them in

their anti-terrorist wars

I think Gaddafi was never going to

change because if he if he changed that

means he would finish

he struck deals financial and economic

is would do a switch to the West's

lightning but even his heart he never

actually trusted the money never

believed in anything by 2011 the people

that he'd ruled with an iron fist

for 42 years were showing their distrust

of their brother leader standing up for

what they did believe in and against the

injustice of the Gaddafi regime we

started to see small-scale protests and

eruptions of public discontent so there

was a slight sort of shift and an

opening up but really by 2011

expectations for real change had been

dashed and people had realized that

there was no real change coming change

was to come

[Applause]

a Centurion from colonization by Italy

Libya had become an important player on

the world stage : L Muammar Gaddafi had

gone from being and accused the sponsor

of terror to an ally in the West war

against it in the early days of 2011

transformations were sweeping through

North Africa the so-called Arab Spring

uprisings had seen the end of two

dictators Ben Ali in Tunisia and Egypt

asana Mubarak pressure was building on

Muammar Gaddafi the battle for Libya was

about to begin by 2011 we have to look

at the international scene around Libya

especially the Arab Spring they were

seen as revolutions and they made the

right atmosphere for something to happen

in Libya

something would happen in Libya and it

would happen in the East the East has

sort of a particular sense of itself and

a particular narrative that it had been

deliberately punished and deliberately

marginalized by the Gaddafi regime

fat high turbo a lawyer representing the

families of prisoners allegedly killed

in a Brazilian prison in 1996 had been

planning a so-called

Day of Rage for the 17th of February

2011 in the eastern city of Benghazi but

turbo was arrested two days before the

planned protests and as his supporters

gathered to demand his release they

clashed with security forces protests

demanding the release of a terrible

quickly moved into protests against

Gaddafi in the following days the

anti-gaddafi protesters made up of

ordinary civilians as well as growing

numbers of militias moved on to other

cities ransacking police stations and

military installations

protests tend to armed rebellion Gadhafi

at first held back from responding with

force but his restraint would be

short-lived

this is a militant uprising had Qadhafi

used more force he might have been able

to suppress this uprising it was his

decision not to use heavy force at the

beginning that allowed this rebellion to

get going oh let's work off we so

Libyans forming and their own armed

groups what we're known at the time as

revolutionary brigades essentially the

city just felt that they were making it

up as they went along Gadhafi now moved

to beat back the rebels and take back

control the regime tried to snuff out

the protests in in a brutal fashion

in a way that sparked even more protests

so the funerals of those who had been

killed by the regime triggered even more

crowds to come out people lost their

fear

the rebellion had spread from Benghazi

as far west as Tripoli clashes between

protesters and regime security forces

peppered the capital city along with

demonstrations of support by Gaddafi

loyalists Libya was in the midst of a

double-edged war for territorial

supremacy on the ground and for

legitimacy and the eyes of the wider

world rebel militias played down their

links to our Lord groups including the

Al qaeda-linked Libyan Islamic fighting

group whose members had been freed from

prison two years earlier meanwhile

kölner Gadhafi rallied his supporters

against an armed insurrection by those

he claimed to be drug-filled foreign

terrorists in Libya shiver shiver

sanghas anger just deaf even when he's

talking clearly he want to say that

these are not the liberal people that I

know these are just terrorists who they

trained by al-qaeda he want to get the

sympathy of the world and Maya come on

you are fighting and Qaeda in in Iraq

and other places I am fighting them in

Libya why don't you come support me

instead of supporting them

[Music]

territory which in the first 72 hours

fell to the rebellion was grabbed back

by Qaddafi

it was at that point that people began

to warn of a bloodbath

there started to be a push for a

humanitarian intervention and and the

push for this was coming from the rebels

they realized they were losing this war

and so the rebels said to the Sultan

well what are we going to do well the

only hope is Western military

intervention

I don't think Gaddafi would necessarily

have gone and massacred ordinary

civilians in Benghazi when he was poised

to come back and take Benghazi he'd

retaken a number of other towns

including a stab here in the east where

he hadn't gone ahead and done a

wholesale massacre the international

community could not just stand by and

see Gaddafi willing to kill thousands

and thousands and thousands of

demonstrators at the end of February

2011 a group of military officers and

government ministers had defected from

the regime and set up a National

Transitional Council the NTC headed by

the former justice minister Mustafa the

jury years of neutering the military and

hollowing out political structures had

left little loyalty among elements of

the Gaddafi regime by early March

however Gaddafi's forces had showed up

their control of Tripoli and looked to

head east to reclaim Benghazi the NTC

working with the Arab League an

organization long at odds with Libya and

its leader urged the UN Security Council

to stop Gaddafi from killing his own

people on mass

[Music]

but claims of impending genocide of

regime soldiers ordered to rape civilian

woman at will were far from proven don't

tell me about the stories about Gaddafi

killing his own people

the bombardment of fish loom the

district in Tripoli the use of rape mass

rape as a weapon the use of fragrant

tablets as a man as a weapon that's

completely false

Western NGOs went in and found out that

none of this was was true but it was

reported at the time and it was reported

by Al Jazeera Al Arabiya BBC near Times

Washington Post CNN all the TV networks

in the West we've seen many dead bodies

of Libyans shot in the streets

anti-government protesters have told Al

Jazeera of what they call a massacre on

Saturday in the town the body of

evidence at the time seemed overwhelming

because you had not just what until the

intelligence community was saying you

had what all of our allies were saying

you had what the regional partners were

saying you had what we were reading in

the newspaper every day from press from

journalists on the ground

[Music]

truth was not the first casualty of the

war in Libya but it was now a fiercely

contested asset British Prime Minister

David Cameron and French President

Nicolas Sarkozy led the charge for

direct action against the Gaddafi regime

they pushed for a UN Security Council

resolution authorizing a no-fly zone

over Libya to be overseen by NATO but

military intervention would be

impossible without us backing you cannot

do a NATO intervention without the

support of United States and at the time

the Secretary of State was Hillary

Clinton clearly she is building a

political career for herself and she

want to take position in the world of

stage EDI Clinton was in Paris and there

she actually met several ministers Arab

ministers there was a videoconference

between Paris New York and Washington DC

and that basically ilari

you know convinced I guess the president

to take this decision

she went to Barack Obama and told them

okay now Gaddafi has tanks going towards

Benghazi if he kills the the

revolutionaries their blood will be on

your white shirt

unlike Barack Obama the leaders of

Britain and France had needed no

convincing to call for a NATO

intervention against Gaddafi while David

Cameron may have looked to bolster his

fledgling credentials as an

international statesman for President

Sarkozy the drive to get rid of Gaddafi

seemed both political and personal the

Gaddafi regime reportedly bankrolled

Sarkozy successful 2007 presidential

campaign

that same year Libya signed the

multi-billion euro arms agreement that

the deaf he would later fail to honor he

also proposed the idea of a pan-african

currency no longer backed by the French

Treasury another challenge to Frances

influence in Africa

on March 17th 2011 the UN Security

Council led by France the UK and the

u.s. pushed through resolution one 973

giving legal authority to enforce a

no-fly zone over Gaddafi's Libya this

resolution demands an immediate

ceasefire and a complete end to violence

and attacks against civilians

they adopted a resolution that said that

amongst other things there would be an

arms embargo there would be a no-fly

zone and all necessary measures could be

used to protect civilians in Libya

except no occupying Ground Force it

wasn't a no-fly zone it was more

appropriately and called a no-drive zone

because it was able to hit targets on

the ground NATO intervention was

decisive and tipping the balance of

power back in favor of the rebels and

also of course the training of rebel

forces by foreign security intelligence

agencies enabled those rebels to move

into the West and eventually to topple

Gaddafi and to take control of Tripoli

it led to not only the factor Civil War

the militarization of surprising and the

rise of the armed militias a lot that

was done through supply of weapons

through Qatar in collaboration with

intelligence services of the West were

willing to turn the other way to the

fact that there was a weapons embargo

there's a lot of a lot of help from

Emirates from Qatar and who came to the

help of the Libyan people and that

limited the suffering of the people who

limited the number of casualties that

took place in there Carter

at the beginning was very popular and

supporting the uprising but then the

United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia

and Egypt supported the National

Coalition turkey became involved with

support of Misrata and so we find that

the region of Arab countries and the

European countries are involved in the

Libyan Civil War it was an opportunity

for the world to get rid of a menace

it's called Gaddafi

it's a coincident in the rare moment of

history whereby the aspiration of some

of the Libyans met with would be

interests of Western powerful countries

and the country was literally tied up

hands and legs and throwing from the

ninth floor four bunch of Tears and

gangsters waiting outside rebel forces

made up of militias divided along

regional territorial and ideological

lines also contained criminal elements

and those seeking their own gain but

despite their differences the rebels

were gaining the upper hand in the east

posters of anti imperialist national

hero Omar al Mokhtar took pride of place

as flags of independent Libya not seen

since the time of King Idris where waste

by jubilant crowds by the end of August

2011 rebel forces would take Tripoli

Libya's capital city and regime

stronghold without the feast resistance

many had anticipated less than three

weeks later the NTC was recognized by

the UN as Libya's legitimate governing

authority with Tripoli lost Gaddafi

retreated to his hometown of Sirte but

it too was now closed to fallen the

rebellion was closing in

and forget their fee time was running

out when the phases recorded messages to

his family he said they will go down in

history as a hero they will never leave

my country and I never I never lived my

country I never gave up

October 20th 2011 NATO aircraft attack a

convoy of armed vehicles Leaving Cert

rebel fighters on the ground receive

intelligence that a person of interest

may be among those fleeing moments later

: Muammar al-gaddafi

is found hiding in a drainpipe Qaddafi

fled and then the rebels chased him down

and tortured him and then murdered him

for some the final words of Libya's

brother leader moments before being

killed showed a broken man frail and

confused for others those words were of

a desperate man clinging to delusion

[Music]

until the last moment here he looks like

he doesn't believe that what he was

doing was wrong

I mean and that's why I say what did I

do to you oh come on

he destroyed their lives he destroyed

their future those people they had no

future whatsoever he symbolizes

something do those who like him and

dislike him or hate him

those who picked up arms against him and

those who whipped up bombers to defend

him and he still represents some kind of

fear for them the world was happy and I

had a discussion at night with friends

and I thought him we'll look you know

the violence that happened with him

might be the first chapter of a book

that we're gonna go through if you live

by the sword you die by the sword

retribution was meted out to those who

fought for Gaddafi some were killed

some paraded through the streets

others taking away their faiths unknown

a gruesome end for an often brutal

leader and his supporters but an end

that may not have been inevitable there

were a series of negotiations right at

the beginning right in that period when

the UN Security Council authorized

intervention and NATO countries started

the bombing and when the US State

Department heard about this they said

you need to stop those negotiations and

one of the ex USX

military officers who was engaged in

those negotiations he said and he's

quoted in the newspaper saying this if

you're really serious about trying to

protect civilians and end of the

violence wouldn't you give 48 hours to

see if they're serious about potentially

agreeing to a ceasefire why would we

pull the plug

rather than give them a chance to see if

they're interested in peace the very

idea was to make as many people as

possible believe that be that means very

even and once you believe isn't even you

don't accept the idea of talking to even

there is a way to knocking and that's

what happened exactly at least four

major peaceful settlement negotiations

the Americans certainly got that we Came

we saw he died

when Gaddafi sent his tanks to Benghazi

to Benghazi and still the you know there

is no United Nation resolution I asked a

cousin of mine who was a dissident

military man a Coronel and he was a

Benghazi I told him good luck is sending

his tanks what you're gonna do he said

don't worry don't worry because we had

French officers and Benghazi including

Charles so do you think the French will

let their people die they took the Arab

League all the way to New York and the

decision to bomb Libya was taken within

a month it took them more than a year in

in Bosnia and Kosovo and Rwanda so you

said I think the year I think I need to

respond here why did Gaddafi send a

column of 60 kilometers of armed tanks

and heavy equipment to Benghazi on the

19th of March he was you know a column

to Manchester to bring it back he was

not going to celebrate with the Benghazi

people going to give us you know I just

finished this point he was not going

there to give out gifts or sweets no he

was going there destroy you take a city

back or kill was this exaggerated by the

media including you know did Debbie

really commit massacres oh I think I

think I want to go back the West did not

do anything during the Tunisian

Revolution they did not go do anything

via Gyptian Revolution clearly they are

fed up with Gaddafi and here's an

opportunity for the definitely be

removed and the Libyan people are coming

out and realized that that that the 70

kilometers of tanks and military

vehicles of going to attack Benghazi

they know that Gaddafi and of course he

does know that but they are you going to

slaughter the Libyans because he doesn't

care what was in it for the West that's

the question well I'll tell you what's

in it the price what what was in it is

the price Libya has a lot of resources

Gaddafi had a lot of cash a lot of

investments Libya has 40 banks up

that runs sub banks of about 200 banks

including in New York in in Wall Street

but at that stage he had very good

relationships with the West and he me he

made big deals like the deal in the

desert with Tony Blair and BP and she'll

know but he was false billing incoming

billions why that's why would they want

to get to know he was reluctant

especially the French the French Dip he

promised them a 10 billion euro or more

or more and he didn't do a thing

Sarkozy was frustrated the British were

frustrated American didn't care but

there was a kind of a Lobby around the

Clintons that made miss Clinton mrs.

Clinton lead the way that the United

States enter in this war but it was not

the interest of the United States

government

it was the interest of some lobbies in

the United States they think that if the

United States have some action there

there will be more interest for those

lobbies we're talking about

international intervention because even

the UN resolution what they didn't talk

what care about about change in the

regime did about protecting civilians I

was one of those throughout the

Revolution who come out on mid

international media almost every day

what we were telling Western politicians

and others and other politicians and the

media that look Gaddafi is very brutal

he's not Ben Ali he hasn't left he's not

mobarak he's not given a power he's

going to stick it out and kill as many

people as possible to prevent his

downside we wish to say do you want

another

Rwanda Massacre and North Africa is that

what you want because will the

international community conscious carry

that remember what happened Wanda the

world turned a blind eye a million

people would be killed

and the international community

responded yes but it was it was their

moral duty Libya was a member of the

United Nation I don't think now all we

had to do anything

arguments for and against the legitimacy

of NATO intervention we're being drowned

out as the mission to protect civilians

crept into regime change Libya was now

up for grabs it's the leadership of

France and Qatar that took the United

the the Arab League to New York and

convinced everybody to do and everybody

came and for the price and that's what

we see up till now the Libyan people

there'll be people whatever their pains

wear whatever the operation was used

against them they were a marginal factor

in what happened in Libya

what happened are what still happens in

Libya and this because the nature of of

Libya this is not today

this is 17th century this is tense

essentially this is at the time of the

Greeks when they came and the Romans the

Turks Libya is a low potential country

but with the Arab interest in these Arab

countries what was their interest the

Egyptian was confused and they were not

in a position they could do anything in

Libya the who led it was copper and then

the Gulf countries you know and they

wanted to get rid of Gaddafi of Libya is

developed on the Mediterranean Shore 250

kilometers from Europe you know both

sides

well the Gulf would be second-hand in

the area you're saying they deliberately

wanted instability they felt that the

only country that has the same potential

was not in the Gulf Council is Libya

it's out of control

you know I'm not ruling out country's

interest in Libya but we need to put it

into perspective Gaddafi was already

doing business with French British

Italian and American companies their

rights were always preserved by Gaddafi

and you know this very well so partly I

think partly yes economic interest is

always there but I think for an

international alliance of 45 countries

to support the UN resolution 193 to go

into Libya and protect civilians and

many many know Norway took part Norway

sent aeroplanes

and fighters and took part so many

countries took part in this alliance

that cannot be explained purely by

economic interest massacres massacres

are happening all over the world yes and

we don't see the NATO intervening to

protect civilians in other countries and

then let's let's let's not forget that

what happened in this those eight months

twenty seven thousand five hundred

sorties with sixty thousand bombs and

missiles on Libya the destruction of

Libya and turning it from a state

sovereign state into a territory that we

see today it is the action of the

international community that has to come

back and try to help us reinstate this

state

[Music]

immediately after the fall of the

Gaddafi regime Libya was under the

stewardship of the National Transitional

Council but in reality it was a tonne

patchwork of competing militias and

awash with weapons

[Music]

under pressure from Western powers the

NTC horde through parliamentary

elections in July 2012 won by an

outwardly liberal coalition the National

forces Alliance the second biggest party

represented in the new Parliament was

the justice and construction party the

political arm of the Muslim Brotherhood

in Libya the NTC was to give way to the

GNC the general National Congress which

would be based in Tripoli and given a

mandate to govern for 18 months before

the election of a new government but as

Libya moved to democratic rule moves

were being made that would give the

militias even greater power number one

was the fateful decision by the

transitional authorities to grant a

state salary to anyone who had fought

during the revolution so what we saw

happened was a mushrooming of armed

groups so the revolutionary brigades

became even bigger and more powerful you

find a young person who become part of

these military formations and he is

making 50% more than a teacher who has

been teaching for 35 years the only job

opportunity is to become a militia

member Libya became consumed by

political and economic turf battles this

is my money this is my territory this is

my activity not yours and all those

different groups whose contesting

interests were suppressed under Qadhafi

got a chance to say it's my turn now the

other crucial event was a decision by

Mustafa Abdul Jalil then leader of the

National Transitional Council to concede

two armed Federalists and Federalists

being those who were seeking some form

of autonomy for eastern Libya they had

begun blockading a key road

in central Libya he capitulated to their

demands and what was important about

that was it was the first time in

post-qaddafi Libya where the lesson was

learned that force or the threat of

force will give you political leverage

what happens is that the militias become

much more powerful than the government

so really done there are many ways under

the mercy of these of these bushes there

was no real institution built in Libya

so that mean when the defi goes you'll

find these institutions in place for

example there was no army army is

marginalized since 1986 and only thing

was there was the militias of Gaddafi

and his children these are to protect

him and these are the one who default

again excuse me yes excuse me

the Israel and 5th of June well I was an

opponent to Gaddafi I went to his jail I

was beaten on my legs on my hands by his

people but let me let me be objective

here the the Libyan army in 2011

resisted for 8 months

three against 23,000 sorties Israel in

June 5th 1967 used only 3,000 sorties so

come on we're talking here when they say

resistance what's the point because when

you're talking about weekend why

everybody was we didn't like the

institutions of Gaddafi will you like

him being the dictator we resisted them

but we cannot say that Libya has no

institutions I would say oh I didn't

like the institution especially I can

ask you well you were I don't tell me

about the health institutions only that

there was none it is a revolution it is

not does not have a leadership it does

not have a plan for what would you

afterwards you have this vacuum that is

in place and and and then here what

happens that Gaddafi literally opened up

all his weapon Arsenal's and so now he

spread out all the weapons in the hands

of the people you get out 17,000

criminals they are out from jail and

they are militarized this is the problem

now these militias they got used to

money and salaries and

and influence when they grew and grew

they mushroom their numbers at the

beginning in 2011 they were about 20,000

25,000 of them now at most now we have

about quarter of a million because every

young man who was unemployed the best

way a quickest way to get money is to go

and join a militia militia life became

very attractive Libya was driven by

militias with conflicting interests

violence as political currency was

carried out with impunity in September

2012 the US ambassador to Libya Chris

Stevens was killed during an alleged

attack by the al Qaeda affiliated Ansar

al-sharia group on an American Consul

facility in Benghazi kidnappings and

assassinations were now commonplace in

spring 2013 violence real and implied

was used to force through new

legislation that would favor some

factions and we can others there was

very much a sense in Libya of Victor's

justice and one of the manifestations of

this attitude this mindset was the

drafting and passage in 2013 of what is

known in Libya as the political

isolation law and this was basically a

hollowing out of expertise within key

institutions of the state what I found

so on I said if you had any job of the

Qaddafi you could hold no role in the

Libyan political or governmental life

wiping out the technocrats wiping out

the non-political people wiping out the

competent people as well as wiping

anybody who did any relationship to

Qaddafi it was a power grab

in February 2014 without public

consultation or parliamentary vote the

GNC extended its electoral mandate for

one more year it was a fateful move that

led to an exiled military man to launch

his own challenge for power Haritha

after a former Libyan army officer once

part of the coup that ousted King Idris

in 1969 had been abandoned in Chad after

Gaddafi's failed war to seize territory

in 1986 after was rescued by the CIA and

given you a citizenship and returned to

Libya at the start of the 2011 uprising

general have to now look to steer a

revolt against the GNC but his appeal to

overthrow the Tripoli government failed

so he regrouped in the east having to

restore order to a lawless Benghazi

it was completely unsafe in Benghazi to

go out every day hundreds of people were

killed assassinating Dana Benghazi was a

jungle at the time it was a complete

jungle between different two groups who

are fighting for control after decided

he was going to try and put an end to

all of this with his operation dignity

campaign he pulled with him roots of

retired military personnel and then

others who would come on board and join

what he called his Libyan National Army

but which actually in reality was a

loose collection of revolutionary groups

and militias as well on on the ground in

in the east

you start in the so called the dignity

or I can ask in gauzy and get it

terrorists in Benghazi in Benghazi there

was sorry I was labeled by the United

Nation as a terrorist group but there

are also other groups from their parted

revolution clearly there nobody has

labeled them as terrorists but they put

all of them together and he started he

had us explicitly empty Islamist in

gender until the Muslim Brotherhood

Nathan his rise or the start of this war

in the east of Libya triggered fears

among some of those forces in the west

of Libya that he might be strong enough

to take mine Ghazi and eventually to

move and take over Tripoli powerful

malicious such as the synteny brigades

had common cause with after and the

Libyan National Army the overthrow of

the GNC in Tripoli this isn't any

brigades moved to see strip the airport

a strategically important site but we

accounted by a collective of militias

targeted by half this operation dignity

this collective called itself Libya dawn

and student support of the GNC

operation dignity labeled Libya dawn as

terrorists Libya dawn saw the leaders of

operation dignity as anti revolutionary

Gaddafi loyalists a new civil war was

now been waged for control of Libya

running street battles shadowed by

political infighting the GNC had come to

the end of his term and following

elections in June 2014 which were marred

by widespread violence it was obliged to

hand over power to the newly elected

House of Representatives to be based in

Benghazi shift in Libya's government

from west to east and shifting the

balance of power from one block to

another the government was to move to

Benghazi once it had been elected but it

didn't move to Benghazi instead a

decision was taken to move to the

eastern town of Tobruk which in the view

of after his opponents was basically

putting the Parliament in even more

deeply and after his territory the

elections were a real blow for many of

the Islamist forces and parties and the

Islamists could see that actually things

were about to slip out of their hands

the old government refused to give up

the power the old Parliament the new

Parliament which was in the East in the

wrong place said we're in charge now and

libya began a period of two governments

countries like the Emiratis the UAE like

Egypt maybe even countries like Qatar

and Turkey countries like France they

are siding with one side against the

other the general National Congress and

the people who were part of that group

in Tripoli and some of the MS runs were

supported at least politically and

perhaps more by Qatar and Turkey and

this government in the East under the

House of Representatives was supported

at least politically and perhaps more by

Egypt and the amorous general Hoffner

went east received his commission from

the House of Representatives in the East

and you had two competing governments

neither of which had meaningful

legitimacy neither which could deliver

services neither which had national

institutions operating national

the technocratic institutions on which

Libya depended most National Oil

Corporation and the central bank of

Libya continued to functions they always

had there was a pressure from the

international community that you don't

play with the central bank you don't

play with the National Oil Company you

should keep them one the world

corporation continued to pump oil under

the old contracts the money went to the

Central Bank of Libya the central bank

would be adult it out to the few are you

could have two groups fighting one

another in the streets both paid for

with salaries from the central bank and

directed by neither government oil flow

boosted cash flow but Libya was being

blown apart

the UN whose decision to intervene in

2011 inadvertently led to the arming of

militias looked to broker a deal in

December 2015 to end the violence by

creating a new government of national

Accord the G and a but the Tripoli based

GNA headed by Prime Minister FISA sir

Raja was rejected by the after backed

House of Representatives and tobruk

after would instead seek even greater

power by taking control of Libya's

lifeline oil it was clear that at some

point he would try to control Eastern

oil infrastructure which he did the

moment that hafter gained control of

those Eastern oil ports it changed in

terms of the way international actors

viewed him when General half DARS

military adviser and family members came

to me in November 2016 shortly after the

u.s. elections they told me Hefner

intended to conquer the entire country

of Libya fire all of the politicians and

every element of Libyan political life

run the country by military decree I

said to myself where have I heard that

before that sounds like more our Qaddafi

I got a call from him from after and he

said you know can you talk to the

Americans and I did talk to the

Americans and I went back to mrs. Jones

the British ambassador and I think the

fire was in her desk and she told me do

you think a retired general with one MIG

21 and 30 trucks can change things so

III started communicating with General

Hefner and good faith the only dispute

that we had from the beginning that if

it's war against terrorism that's fine

but for the army to take over the

country we don't want to repeat the 50

years we had before there's two

different things you know Khalifa Haftar

initiated a full open war in Benghazi

with militia groups like the 17th of

February the brigade like Rafales Hattie

Brigade and others this group

essentially we're the revolutionaries

who fought against Gaddafi in 2011 later

on what they did they went into an

alliance with internationally classified

terrorist groups like Ansar Shariah

al-qaeda

and later on in 2015 - came in into

Benghazi as well to fight with them so

now what we had we had Khalifa Haftar on

one side leading a fight against a group

of revolutionaries in an alliance with

terrorist groups for me he is a militia

because he didn't have any legitimacy as

an institution he is a retired general

so he's like there were people who they

are and the other militias there and and

of course in this he was supported by

the Egyptians or by the Emiratis they

were supporting him with with weapons

going against the embargo of the United

Nation of I mean death that kind of

support is very public now isn't it by

Egypt and the UAE and Saudi Arabia well

there's another point I would like to

add why is he supported from these

countries I want to add you know the

general hiftar movement and Benghazi did

not happen before general Sisi came to

power in Egypt the Egyptians wanted to

guarantee their western borders and they

thought general Hector can do the work

that the Egyptian Western Front the

command could do so they they were very

generous with him with ammunition with

guns and then Saudi Arabia came hesitant

but the Emirates came with full power

and now I think the Emirates have even

more more say than the Egyptians in the

East our problem with after is he still

believes that the army should be in

charge and he belongs to that old

mentality the whole idea of the Libyan

revolution of 2011 is to get rid of that

idea that the whole country is totally

absorbed in one cult personality now

fortunately and it's a great thing that

in the whole west of Libya you will

never now in Tripoli see a picture of

any leader whatsoever you will not see

people talking about individuals they

talk about build exactly so let's talk

about Tripoli instead of a cult one cult

personality now we have two governments

would you talk about the government in

Tripoli the government of sir ROG yes

who

which militias supports this government

and who supports it this government came

as a result of the Libyan dialogue which

took about a year and became from that

the Libyan political agreement which has

been ratified by the Security Council

and supported by the international

community

so Sahaj government really wanted when

it came and entered Tripoli allowed the

militias to take over if there is a

government they are all running it but

really there is our not quality

government to be honest with you because

again I mean they have no power except

they can write decisions I mean there is

huge number of collimation

proclamations yes they make them but

they have statements and and the

proclamations there that's all what they

do the divisions in Libya are not based

on ethnic or religious or or or

sectarian factors the divisions are

purely political purely based on

disagreement and how to share power and

wealth

libya's politicians were failing the

Libyan people and failing to deliver

basic services such as food fuel and

security

face-to-face talks between Prime

Minister Suraj and general after in Abu

Dhabi in May 2017 then again in Paris a

year later fell short of any roadmap to

stability most telling however was not

what was discussed but where

as fighting continued in September 2018

between rival militias seeking a share

of Libya's loot Libya's fate is directly

influenced by overseas powers once again

looks to be resting in foreign as well

as Libyan hands France in particular

seems to be leaning more heavily towards

towards the hafta camp and to be giving

their their backing to have to mainly I

think because they see in him a strong

figure who can fight against terrorism

he seems to be a more of a force for

stability the Italians who are the other

really big player in Libya on the other

hand that their most of their interests

in Libya are really in in the west of

Libya partly because that's where a lot

of the main migration flows going into

to Italy what's the point of departure

is Western Libya but also because of

Italy has strong reliance on Libyan gas

Libya's becoming a proxy a kind of war

without a military getting involved

Demers Egypt and to a certain extent

Saudi Arabia on one side and then Turkey

Sudan and and cut in the other side and

both of these sites have their own

international

controllers if you like I mean if the

United States he wants to solve the

problem Olivia they can do it very

quickly unless the outside countries

will leave us alone for some time and we

Olivia's come to our senses to be able

to agree to save our country

maybe we're not able to maybe

unfortunate will continue until we have

no more weapons to fight each other

Libya that we knew before is gone it's

gone all what we see in front of us the

scene now it's at the end it's taking us

to this integration nothing is is

bringing the country back to unity and

every day we are closer to this final

scene

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