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1
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PETER LAIRD: We got into
talking about these
bus-kicking turtles.
2
00:00:13,647 --> 00:00:16,084
You know, the bus would be
going along Route 108,
I think it was,
3
00:00:16,117 --> 00:00:18,018
between Durham
and Dover.
4
00:00:18,052 --> 00:00:20,288
Suddenly this turtle
would jump out from
the side of the road,
5
00:00:20,321 --> 00:00:21,855
kick the bus
really hard
6
00:00:21,889 --> 00:00:23,991
and spin it
around on its axis,
7
00:00:24,024 --> 00:00:26,360
and you'd be heading
back the other way.
8
00:00:26,394 --> 00:00:29,963
We just got a real kick
out of talking about
these bus-kicking turtles.
9
00:00:29,997 --> 00:00:32,666
We would laugh
uproariously.
10
00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:35,669
And I think that is where
the Turtles came from.
11
00:00:40,308 --> 00:00:43,744
We had no idea how big
big could be.
12
00:00:43,777 --> 00:00:47,181
I felt obligated
to resist making it
a total commercial.
13
00:00:47,215 --> 00:00:49,117
Every morning,
7:00 on the dot,
14
00:00:49,150 --> 00:00:51,152
I watched every
single episode.
15
00:00:51,185 --> 00:00:52,853
They're kind of like
the cartoon Beatles.
16
00:00:52,886 --> 00:00:56,624
It's a story that really
tells you that anybody
can be successful.
17
00:00:56,657 --> 00:00:58,492
Should it have happened?
18
00:00:58,526 --> 00:01:02,363
The odds are
infinitesimally low,
but it did.
19
00:02:24,978 --> 00:02:29,049
LAIRD: Nothing about it
was planned beyond how
do we do a 40-page comic
20
00:02:29,082 --> 00:02:30,884
and make it at least
halfway decent?
21
00:02:32,853 --> 00:02:36,724
KEVIN EASTMAN: (ECHOING)
There's too many
happy accidents.
22
00:02:40,994 --> 00:02:45,599
MARK ASKWITH: In 1977,
you have this really
vital energy
23
00:02:45,633 --> 00:02:47,134
happening
in popular culture.
24
00:02:47,167 --> 00:02:48,402
If you want,
you can call it punk,
25
00:02:48,436 --> 00:02:49,970
you can call it
new wave.
26
00:02:50,003 --> 00:02:53,507
A lot of stuff
was happening.
27
00:02:53,541 --> 00:02:56,410
I mean, we were almost
at the very end
of the Cold War,
28
00:02:56,444 --> 00:02:59,347
there's a lot of
multiculturalism
coming out,
29
00:03:01,349 --> 00:03:04,418
and a lot of kids
who felt out of place.
30
00:03:04,452 --> 00:03:06,687
They didn't know how to
describe themselves
31
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:09,122
and they didn't have
the kind of community
32
00:03:09,156 --> 00:03:12,025
that previous
generations have had.
33
00:03:12,059 --> 00:03:14,228
Stores like
the Silver Snail,
34
00:03:14,262 --> 00:03:17,431
a lot of comic book
stores in Berkeley and
throughout North America
35
00:03:17,465 --> 00:03:19,967
really picked up
on that energy.
36
00:03:21,569 --> 00:03:23,671
Two years before
I met Kevin,
37
00:03:23,704 --> 00:03:26,940
I had started this free
comic book newspaper
sort of thing.
38
00:03:26,974 --> 00:03:29,677
It was actually
more like a booklet,
called Scat.
39
00:03:29,710 --> 00:03:32,145
I got together
with a bunch of
local cartoonists
40
00:03:32,179 --> 00:03:34,047
and we decided
to do this thing.
41
00:03:34,081 --> 00:03:36,350
ASKWITH: It felt like
Mad Magazine in the '60s.
42
00:03:36,384 --> 00:03:38,952
It had this really
interesting satirical,
43
00:03:38,986 --> 00:03:41,789
black and white,
kind of edgy feel.
44
00:03:41,822 --> 00:03:45,359
LAIRD: I used to love
comic books as a kid,
and loved reading them.
45
00:03:45,393 --> 00:03:48,161
Sometime around my first or
second year of high school,
I think it was,
46
00:03:48,195 --> 00:03:50,464
I became aware
of Jack Kirby.
47
00:03:57,405 --> 00:04:00,374
EASTMAN: One day, riding
the bus to the job I had
at the local pizza parlor,
48
00:04:00,408 --> 00:04:02,376
I found this
magazine called Scat
49
00:04:02,410 --> 00:04:04,011
put out by a bunch
of these artists
in Northampton.
50
00:04:05,779 --> 00:04:07,515
With the address in hand,
I grabbed my portfolio
51
00:04:07,548 --> 00:04:09,116
and went over
to their offices
52
00:04:09,149 --> 00:04:10,684
to sell some of
my short stories,
53
00:04:10,718 --> 00:04:11,819
some of my ideas,
54
00:04:11,852 --> 00:04:13,387
because it was
kind of like-minded,
55
00:04:13,421 --> 00:04:14,755
underground artist
inspired.
56
00:04:14,788 --> 00:04:17,391
One of the guys at Scat
gave him my address
57
00:04:17,425 --> 00:04:19,092
and he wrote me a letter,
a very nice letter,
58
00:04:19,126 --> 00:04:21,128
and I wrote him back
59
00:04:21,161 --> 00:04:24,398
and said, "Yeah,
come on over and we'll
get together and talk
60
00:04:24,432 --> 00:04:26,534
"and show each other
our artwork and whatnot."
61
00:04:28,135 --> 00:04:30,037
EASTMAN: I walked into
his house in Northampton,
62
00:04:30,070 --> 00:04:32,005
and the first thing I saw
was a Jack Kirby drawing.
63
00:04:32,039 --> 00:04:36,544
LAIRD: I had a framed
Jack Kirby pencil page
64
00:04:36,577 --> 00:04:38,846
from The Losers,
the DC comic,
65
00:04:38,879 --> 00:04:41,014
hanging on the wall
and he just flipped out.
66
00:04:41,048 --> 00:04:43,884
Oh, my God! I had
never seen an actual
Jack Kirby original,
67
00:04:43,917 --> 00:04:45,553
having been such
a big inspiration to me.
68
00:04:45,586 --> 00:04:47,388
And that was
pretty much it.
69
00:04:47,421 --> 00:04:48,789
We hit it off
from the word go.
70
00:04:51,792 --> 00:04:54,528
LAIRD: We sat
in the pizza parlor
in Wells, Maine
71
00:04:54,562 --> 00:04:56,764
trying to think up
good names for
our business.
72
00:04:58,098 --> 00:05:00,968
I remember we wrote
on the back of a napkin
or a placemat
73
00:05:01,001 --> 00:05:03,003
a list of about
a dozen names,
74
00:05:03,036 --> 00:05:05,005
and Mirage seemed
75
00:05:05,038 --> 00:05:07,575
the coolest sounding and
also the most appropriate
76
00:05:07,608 --> 00:05:09,977
because it wasn't
really a studio,
77
00:05:10,010 --> 00:05:12,245
it was the two of us
sitting in our tiny
living room
78
00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,683
with our lap boards and
our old stuffed chairs
79
00:05:15,716 --> 00:05:18,352
watching TV,
goofing around and
drawing together.
80
00:05:18,386 --> 00:05:19,587
LAIRD: Genius at work.
81
00:05:20,688 --> 00:05:21,522
(LAIRD LAUGHS)
82
00:05:30,364 --> 00:05:32,065
EASTMAN: Late one night
in the studio,
83
00:05:32,099 --> 00:05:34,835
I liked to bug Pete
as much as I could,
84
00:05:34,868 --> 00:05:37,137
especially when he's
watching his favorite
TV shows.
85
00:05:37,170 --> 00:05:40,073
LAIRD: One night,
we're sitting around
watching bad TV
86
00:05:42,042 --> 00:05:42,943
and that's when
it happened.
87
00:05:53,854 --> 00:05:56,557
Kevin drew a turtle
standing on its hind legs
88
00:05:56,590 --> 00:05:58,626
with nunchaku strapped
to its forearms
89
00:05:58,659 --> 00:06:00,694
and with
a bandana-style mask.
90
00:06:00,728 --> 00:06:01,795
And he showed it
to me and he says,
91
00:06:01,829 --> 00:06:03,130
"Hey, this is
a ninja turtle."
92
00:06:03,163 --> 00:06:04,732
And I was like,
"Yeah, great."
93
00:06:04,765 --> 00:06:06,767
So I had to do
my own version
94
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,469
and I changed just
a couple things.
95
00:06:09,470 --> 00:06:10,738
And of course
I had to top him,
96
00:06:10,771 --> 00:06:13,441
so I did a sketch
of four in pencil,
97
00:06:13,474 --> 00:06:16,944
and each one had
different weapons and
this dramatic pose,
98
00:06:16,977 --> 00:06:19,847
and I had to put
the comic title above,
"Ninja Turtle."
99
00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,815
LAIRD: He handed that
to me and I inked that.
100
00:06:21,849 --> 00:06:23,917
Sometime around
that point I suggested,
101
00:06:23,951 --> 00:06:26,286
"Why not add
'Teenage Mutant'
to the name?"
102
00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:27,621
It had a kind of
rhythm to it.
103
00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:34,294
"Dude, we have to
come up with a story
104
00:06:34,327 --> 00:06:35,529
"that tells how these
characters became
105
00:06:35,563 --> 00:06:36,597
"the Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles."
106
00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,731
We were both huge fans
of the underground
publishing movement.
107
00:07:10,764 --> 00:07:13,333
You go back to Zap Comix,
Robert Crumb, Kitchen Sink,
108
00:07:13,366 --> 00:07:15,636
Rip Off Press,
Fabulous Furry
Freak Brothers.
109
00:07:15,669 --> 00:07:17,838
A lot of that stuff
we had both seen and
enjoyed in the head shops
110
00:07:17,871 --> 00:07:19,640
and that kind of
stuff you could find.
111
00:07:20,808 --> 00:07:22,943
We realized pretty early on
in our friendship
112
00:07:22,976 --> 00:07:26,213
that we each had strengths
that complement the other.
113
00:07:26,246 --> 00:07:29,950
EASTMAN: I brought the
layout and the dynamic
Jack Kirby-isms
114
00:07:29,983 --> 00:07:32,452
that paced out
the story this way.
115
00:07:32,486 --> 00:07:35,022
He brought a lot of
great subtle nuances
to the story,
116
00:07:35,055 --> 00:07:37,591
certainly in the script,
I think more than
anything else.
117
00:07:37,625 --> 00:07:41,662
And his artwork style
was much more refined,
much more detailed.
118
00:07:44,798 --> 00:07:47,635
LAIRD: Kevin was
really good at color,
119
00:07:47,668 --> 00:07:49,269
and he had a really
powerful color sense
120
00:07:49,302 --> 00:07:51,872
and I was terrible at it.
121
00:07:51,905 --> 00:07:53,173
EASTMAN: Peter didn't
do much painting.
122
00:07:53,206 --> 00:07:54,708
He did mostly
123
00:07:54,742 --> 00:07:56,343
the most amazing
line work
124
00:07:56,376 --> 00:07:58,278
and detail work
you could imagine.
125
00:07:58,311 --> 00:08:00,681
So, I did up
a couple of roughs
126
00:08:00,714 --> 00:08:02,215
and this is probably
the one I finally selected
127
00:08:02,950 --> 00:08:06,086
before we did
this piece here.
128
00:08:06,119 --> 00:08:10,290
This was the first
color painting of
the Turtles done
129
00:08:10,323 --> 00:08:12,059
back in 1984.
130
00:08:14,662 --> 00:08:18,799
We decided early on
that we'd have some of us
on each page,
131
00:08:18,832 --> 00:08:20,868
whether we're penciling
or inking or whatever,
132
00:08:20,901 --> 00:08:23,370
there was a bit of
each of us on each page,
133
00:08:23,403 --> 00:08:26,540
and it got to be
where we couldn't see
where I left off
134
00:08:26,574 --> 00:08:28,709
and where he started
and vice versa.
135
00:08:29,610 --> 00:08:32,045
It took us about
two and a half months
136
00:08:32,079 --> 00:08:35,215
to actually
complete the entire thing.
137
00:08:35,248 --> 00:08:37,785
Borrowed some money
from Kevin's uncle
138
00:08:37,818 --> 00:08:39,687
and took whatever money
we had ourselves,
139
00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,154
which wasn't
a whole lot,
140
00:08:41,188 --> 00:08:44,892
and managed to
scrape that all together
and print 3,000 copies.
141
00:08:48,195 --> 00:08:51,364
ROSENBAUM: 1984,
this comic comes out
142
00:08:51,398 --> 00:08:53,867
created by these two guys
143
00:08:53,901 --> 00:08:55,936
who love all
the same stuff
144
00:08:55,969 --> 00:08:59,539
but have very
different perspectives.
145
00:08:59,573 --> 00:09:04,077
One of them is
more outgoing,
146
00:09:04,111 --> 00:09:06,747
interested in
the violent side,
147
00:09:06,780 --> 00:09:09,149
the more emotional
side of things.
148
00:09:09,182 --> 00:09:12,953
The other one is a lot
more introverted, calmer,
149
00:09:12,986 --> 00:09:18,058
more intellectual in
terms of storytelling,
in terms of art style,
150
00:09:18,091 --> 00:09:21,394
but they're both fans of
the same kinds of comics.
151
00:09:21,428 --> 00:09:23,931
One of the strange things
about that first issue of
the Turtles
152
00:09:23,964 --> 00:09:28,168
is it sent a very strong
and different message.
153
00:09:28,201 --> 00:09:31,538
It didn't feel like
a mainstream comic,
154
00:09:31,571 --> 00:09:33,040
there was
something about it.
155
00:09:33,073 --> 00:09:36,143
And the fact that it was
a slightly wrong size
156
00:09:36,176 --> 00:09:39,780
also gave a slight
sense of edginess.
157
00:09:39,813 --> 00:09:44,217
It didn't feel like it was
coming from a factory.
158
00:09:44,251 --> 00:09:47,587
ROSENBAUM: What that
first issue does is
comment on
159
00:09:47,621 --> 00:09:49,056
everything that's
going on
160
00:09:49,089 --> 00:09:52,192
in superhero comics
at the time.
161
00:09:52,225 --> 00:09:54,161
What's interesting,
when the first issue
came out,
162
00:09:54,194 --> 00:09:56,496
it was dubbed as a parody
and it was, in a big way.
163
00:09:56,529 --> 00:09:59,867
It was like Dave Sim
when he started
with Cerebus.
164
00:09:59,900 --> 00:10:02,235
He drew this funny little
barbarian aardvark
165
00:10:02,269 --> 00:10:04,738
that was this barbarian
drawn in the style
166
00:10:04,772 --> 00:10:06,874
of Barry Windsor-Smith
when he did Conan.
167
00:10:06,907 --> 00:10:09,409
What worked with Cerebus,
and we tried to capture, too,
168
00:10:09,442 --> 00:10:11,578
is that Cerebus just
had a lot of depth
and character.
169
00:10:11,611 --> 00:10:14,081
Dave progressed
the story along and
made it interesting,
170
00:10:14,114 --> 00:10:15,949
and that's why he
kept so many readers
for 300 issues.
171
00:10:15,983 --> 00:10:18,585
And with us,
we really aped a lot of
172
00:10:18,618 --> 00:10:20,688
Frank Miller-isms
and Daredevil-isms.
173
00:10:20,721 --> 00:10:22,656
I mean,
you look at the origin.
174
00:10:22,690 --> 00:10:24,892
The Hand in Daredevil,
we have the Foot.
175
00:10:24,925 --> 00:10:27,394
Splinter is based on Stick.
176
00:10:27,427 --> 00:10:29,429
We really pulled
some of our favorite bits
177
00:10:29,462 --> 00:10:31,298
from some of our
favorite comics
178
00:10:31,331 --> 00:10:34,968
in, what do you call it,
homage or whatever.
179
00:10:37,504 --> 00:10:40,373
ASKWITH: So, yes,
they were making
fun of the ninja trend,
180
00:10:40,407 --> 00:10:44,011
they were making
fun of the overblown
Frank Miller dialogue.
181
00:10:44,044 --> 00:10:47,514
They were making
fun of the dynamic
poses of Jack Kirby.
182
00:10:47,547 --> 00:10:51,518
But it was all with
great love, great heart,
great affection,
183
00:10:51,551 --> 00:10:54,387
and that's one of
the reasons why
the comic worked.
184
00:10:54,421 --> 00:10:56,656
It was real,
it was passionate
185
00:10:56,690 --> 00:10:58,091
and that, you know,
come on.
186
00:10:58,125 --> 00:10:59,860
That just shoots
out of the pages.
187
00:11:02,295 --> 00:11:04,197
I am often asked,
188
00:11:04,231 --> 00:11:06,599
"Why did you kill
your main villain off
in the first issue?
189
00:11:06,633 --> 00:11:08,468
"That doesn't make
a whole lot of sense."
190
00:11:08,501 --> 00:11:12,039
And the reason is
that we never really thought
we'd be doing a second one.
191
00:11:15,008 --> 00:11:17,377
This was done
completely for fun
192
00:11:17,410 --> 00:11:20,013
and for the passion of
wanting to do comics.
193
00:11:20,047 --> 00:11:23,450
And nothing about it
was planned beyond
194
00:11:23,483 --> 00:11:25,218
how do we do
a 40-page comic
195
00:11:25,252 --> 00:11:27,254
and make it at least
halfway decent?
196
00:11:27,287 --> 00:11:29,289
After the first
3,000 were gone,
197
00:11:29,322 --> 00:11:30,457
there were
more orders
198
00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:31,324
and so we
printed more.
199
00:11:32,392 --> 00:11:34,694
Then we sort of
figured out, well...
200
00:11:34,728 --> 00:11:36,864
Again, because we
don't have a lot of other
distracting paying work,
201
00:11:36,897 --> 00:11:38,698
it's like,
"Let's do an issue two.
202
00:11:38,732 --> 00:11:42,002
"Let's continue to tell
stories of these characters
we created
203
00:11:42,035 --> 00:11:43,871
"and try to make
a living at something
204
00:11:43,904 --> 00:11:45,505
"we've both dreamed
about our entire life
205
00:11:45,538 --> 00:11:48,441
"which is to write,
draw and tell our
own comic stories."
206
00:11:52,412 --> 00:11:53,914
ASKWITH: The second issue
came out,
207
00:11:53,947 --> 00:11:56,950
it felt like it was
aimed at people like me.
208
00:11:56,984 --> 00:11:59,853
However, in ordering
the comic
209
00:11:59,887 --> 00:12:02,022
and putting the comic
on the stands,
210
00:12:02,055 --> 00:12:05,425
you began noticing that
all kinds of people
211
00:12:05,458 --> 00:12:08,195
you wouldn't quite expect
to pick up the comic
were picking it up.
212
00:12:08,228 --> 00:12:09,662
By the time we started
work on issue two,
213
00:12:09,696 --> 00:12:10,864
I was living in
Portland, Maine
214
00:12:10,898 --> 00:12:13,166
and Pete was living
in Sharon, Connecticut,
215
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,436
and we'd done the
pre-orders through
the distribution system
216
00:12:16,469 --> 00:12:19,039
for how many copies
that they'd want to buy
for issue two,
217
00:12:19,072 --> 00:12:21,008
and the orders
came in at 15,000.
218
00:12:21,041 --> 00:12:25,078
ASKWITH: And very quickly,
by the third or fourth
issue of the Turtles,
219
00:12:25,112 --> 00:12:28,015
it was selling more than
The Avengers in the store.
220
00:12:28,048 --> 00:12:30,450
So, there was
something going on.
221
00:12:30,483 --> 00:12:33,386
In many ways, the Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles
222
00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:36,489
started what became
then known as the
black-and-white boom.
223
00:12:36,523 --> 00:12:40,928
And by '85, '86,
it was mind-boggling
how many we were selling.
224
00:12:42,896 --> 00:12:46,166
LAIRD: Doing the numbers
on the second issue,
the first printing of that,
225
00:12:46,199 --> 00:12:49,102
back in, I think
it was, late '84
226
00:12:49,136 --> 00:12:53,841
and realizing that
Kevin and I would each
make $2,000 profit.
227
00:12:53,874 --> 00:12:55,375
Pete faxed me this note
228
00:12:55,408 --> 00:12:58,879
and at 15,000 copies,
total cost involved,
229
00:12:58,912 --> 00:13:01,714
we'd end up with
roughly $4,000 profit.
230
00:13:01,748 --> 00:13:05,285
And it was a great
feeling to get to that
point in life when
231
00:13:08,488 --> 00:13:11,091
what you really
want to do
232
00:13:11,124 --> 00:13:13,426
turns out to be
what you need to do.
233
00:13:13,460 --> 00:13:16,263
"2,000 for you, 2,000 for me,
we do this every two months,
234
00:13:16,296 --> 00:13:18,098
"we could make a living
drawing comics."
235
00:13:18,131 --> 00:13:20,067
I literally packed up my bags
236
00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:22,035
and moved out of Portland
and moved down to Connecticut.
237
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:25,005
We then went ahead
and finished issue two.
238
00:13:47,861 --> 00:13:50,597
You know what was cool,
when we did the first
issue of the Turtles
239
00:13:50,630 --> 00:13:53,233
and we kind of knew
who the characters were,
240
00:13:53,266 --> 00:13:55,835
we knew
their personalities.
241
00:13:55,869 --> 00:14:00,273
Raphael was
loosely based on me
242
00:14:00,307 --> 00:14:02,842
and Donatello was
loosely based on Pete.
243
00:14:02,876 --> 00:14:05,678
But it was 40 pages,
244
00:14:05,712 --> 00:14:08,048
you really didn't get
to know the characters
well enough.
245
00:14:08,081 --> 00:14:10,317
They were sort of
introduced.
246
00:14:10,350 --> 00:14:13,120
When we started
working on the second,
third and fourth issue,
247
00:14:13,153 --> 00:14:16,023
the cool part was that
we really had to develop
these characters.
248
00:14:16,056 --> 00:14:18,458
We had to know
them better than anybody,
so we could write them.
249
00:14:18,491 --> 00:14:21,428
So, like any writer,
250
00:14:21,461 --> 00:14:24,731
you kind of pull from
all these influences
around you.
251
00:14:24,764 --> 00:14:28,868
Your crazy Uncle Burt,
your sisters,
an ex-girlfriend.
252
00:14:28,902 --> 00:14:31,304
For example, April
was designed and written
253
00:14:31,338 --> 00:14:34,207
after a girl that I had
dated in high school,
254
00:14:34,241 --> 00:14:37,644
then we got
married later and stuff.
255
00:14:37,677 --> 00:14:41,148
She was a big inspiration
for that character,
at least in name,
256
00:14:41,181 --> 00:14:42,382
she didn't look
exactly like her.
257
00:14:42,415 --> 00:14:44,217
She did in later issues.
258
00:14:44,251 --> 00:14:47,020
Raphael, who was kind of
the crazy, the hothead.
259
00:14:47,054 --> 00:14:48,922
The rest of the group
think he's crazy.
260
00:14:48,956 --> 00:14:51,724
To have Raphael meet
somebody crazier...
261
00:14:51,758 --> 00:14:54,794
So I started coming up
with some ideas
262
00:14:54,827 --> 00:14:58,932
for a vigilante character
that was not like...
263
00:14:58,966 --> 00:15:01,168
Most vigilante characters
were their whole family
was killed,
264
00:15:01,201 --> 00:15:03,736
there was some huge,
tragic event in their life
265
00:15:03,770 --> 00:15:06,039
that got them to
either put on a suit
or whatever
266
00:15:06,073 --> 00:15:08,308
and strike out
on their own
267
00:15:08,341 --> 00:15:10,743
to take justice
on the bad guys.
268
00:15:10,777 --> 00:15:12,179
So, I came up
with this guy.
269
00:15:12,212 --> 00:15:14,547
I like this name,
Casey Jones.
270
00:15:14,581 --> 00:15:15,915
He didn't have
this huge tragedy
271
00:15:15,949 --> 00:15:18,018
that affected his will
to fight bad guys,
272
00:15:18,051 --> 00:15:19,686
it was because he watched
too much bad TV.
273
00:15:19,719 --> 00:15:21,888
Pete said, "You know
what would be really funny
274
00:15:21,921 --> 00:15:23,456
"is if he had
a golf bag,
275
00:15:23,490 --> 00:15:25,458
"and in the golf bag
he not only had bats,
276
00:15:25,492 --> 00:15:27,094
"he had a golf club,
a hockey stick."
277
00:15:27,127 --> 00:15:29,696
So, he was like
an all-sports nut
278
00:15:29,729 --> 00:15:32,432
and that really made
the whole character perfect.
279
00:15:32,465 --> 00:15:34,234
One of my favorite movies
around this time
280
00:15:34,267 --> 00:15:36,036
was a movie called
Big Trouble in Little China,
281
00:15:36,069 --> 00:15:38,038
and I thought Kurt Russell
as Jack Burton,
282
00:15:38,071 --> 00:15:39,439
that's Casey.
283
00:15:39,472 --> 00:15:41,008
That was really
a huge inspiration.
284
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,383
ROSENBAUM: It was only
those first few issues
that Kevin and Peter
285
00:15:50,417 --> 00:15:52,385
wrote and drew together,
the two of them.
286
00:15:53,286 --> 00:15:55,455
As Ninja Turtles,
the comic book,
287
00:15:55,488 --> 00:15:56,956
started getting
more popular,
288
00:15:56,990 --> 00:16:00,260
they started
building a studio.
289
00:16:06,933 --> 00:16:10,237
LAIRD: We actually needed
to be a real business,
290
00:16:10,270 --> 00:16:12,472
so we, in fact,
rented an office space.
291
00:16:12,505 --> 00:16:14,907
The comic was
doing well enough
that we could afford that.
292
00:16:14,941 --> 00:16:16,209
Funny story,
Michelangelo was actually,
293
00:16:16,243 --> 00:16:18,011
a lot of him, was based
on Steve Lavigne,
294
00:16:18,045 --> 00:16:19,612
who still works
with the studio.
295
00:16:19,646 --> 00:16:21,481
I went to high
school with Steve,
and he was
296
00:16:21,514 --> 00:16:23,883
the Robin Williams
of our high school.
297
00:16:23,916 --> 00:16:26,253
He always had
the wrong joke
at the right time.
298
00:16:26,286 --> 00:16:28,621
Pretty soon
after school,
299
00:16:28,655 --> 00:16:30,690
he got the first book out
and came back to...
300
00:16:30,723 --> 00:16:33,426
He was living
out in Western Mass
here with Pete
301
00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:34,927
and came back
and asked if I was
302
00:16:34,961 --> 00:16:36,629
interested in
maybe coming on board
303
00:16:36,663 --> 00:16:38,131
and doing the lettering,
because he really hated
304
00:16:38,165 --> 00:16:39,866
the lettering
aspect of the book.
305
00:16:39,899 --> 00:16:42,602
I was like,
"Eh, I'll give it a shot,"
and he taught me to letter
306
00:16:42,635 --> 00:16:44,871
and pretty soon
took that over
307
00:16:44,904 --> 00:16:46,973
and just kind of
moved my way through.
308
00:16:47,006 --> 00:16:48,108
(INDISTINCT CONVERSATION)
309
00:16:48,141 --> 00:16:50,277
Totally...
310
00:16:51,844 --> 00:16:52,712
(LAUGHING)
311
00:16:53,980 --> 00:16:55,748
(IN FUNNY VOICE)
Who is that boy?
312
00:16:57,150 --> 00:16:58,185
It was so weird,
I went in there
313
00:16:58,218 --> 00:16:59,452
and there were
these three guys
314
00:16:59,486 --> 00:17:01,788
kind of just
acting wacky
315
00:17:03,690 --> 00:17:06,659
and having great success
at this comic book
they were publishing.
316
00:17:06,693 --> 00:17:09,028
So, I showed them my stuff,
317
00:17:09,062 --> 00:17:11,831
and I think maybe
right on the spot
at that time,
318
00:17:11,864 --> 00:17:13,433
they offered me
an inking job.
319
00:17:13,466 --> 00:17:14,734
EASTMAN:
You drew that on there?
320
00:17:16,736 --> 00:17:18,971
LAIRD: Ryan became
a real important
part of the studio,
321
00:17:19,005 --> 00:17:21,141
he was inking
Tales of the Turtles,
322
00:17:21,174 --> 00:17:24,644
the first volume of that.
323
00:17:24,677 --> 00:17:28,381
He got heavily into
the licensing art world
324
00:17:28,415 --> 00:17:30,417
along with Steve Lavigne.
325
00:17:31,384 --> 00:17:33,286
It was one of those
fortuitous things,
326
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,788
Ryan just came up
to us at a show
and introduced himself.
327
00:17:35,822 --> 00:17:37,457
The early days of Mirage,
328
00:17:37,490 --> 00:17:39,726
we really had full rein
on the Turtles.
329
00:17:39,759 --> 00:17:42,295
We could think of ideas and
take it to Pete and Kevin.
330
00:17:42,329 --> 00:17:46,466
We all worked together on it
and it was really
331
00:17:46,499 --> 00:17:48,868
the best time of
my life creatively.
332
00:17:48,901 --> 00:17:51,070
This is my first lesson
in using high technology.
333
00:17:52,105 --> 00:17:54,274
LAIRD: And what do you
think of it, Mike?
334
00:17:54,307 --> 00:17:57,577
I think that I'm
basically a cave dweller.
335
00:17:57,610 --> 00:18:00,280
We all clicked immediately,
it was amazing.
336
00:18:00,313 --> 00:18:02,515
Every one of us,
337
00:18:02,549 --> 00:18:05,852
we were just absorbed
into the clique right away.
338
00:18:05,885 --> 00:18:09,021
BROWN: It was just insane.
It was a circus every day.
339
00:18:09,055 --> 00:18:12,225
Work a little bit,
play airsoft rifles,
340
00:18:12,259 --> 00:18:14,594
shoot each other,
play basketball.
341
00:18:14,627 --> 00:18:18,565
Then we'd go
to lunch at noon,
come back at 2:00.
342
00:18:18,598 --> 00:18:20,733
We'd usually go shop
in the model shops.
343
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:25,071
One of the guys
used to refer to it as,
344
00:18:25,104 --> 00:18:27,073
"We have to take
an occasional work break."
345
00:18:27,106 --> 00:18:31,178
Meaning that in between
whatever we used to do,
346
00:18:31,211 --> 00:18:34,781
throw things at each other,
airsoft gun battles
in the studio,
347
00:18:35,482 --> 00:18:37,417
we'd have to remember that,
348
00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:41,053
"Oh, yeah, we have to get
that T-shirt design done."
349
00:18:41,087 --> 00:18:43,923
Or whatever it is that
people were working on
at the time.
350
00:18:43,956 --> 00:18:46,626
LAWSON: When you think
about the guys that have
assembled here
351
00:18:46,659 --> 00:18:48,795
for this purpose of
drawing the Turtles,
352
00:18:49,762 --> 00:18:52,265
it's amazing to me.
353
00:18:52,299 --> 00:18:56,736
They're Dooney and Berger,
Steve and me, Eric.
354
00:18:57,570 --> 00:18:58,871
LAVIGNE: Ryan.
355
00:18:58,905 --> 00:19:02,141
LAWSON: Yeah, we've been
like a family, really.
356
00:19:02,175 --> 00:19:05,378
We've worked together,
we've played together,
it's stunning to me.
357
00:19:05,412 --> 00:19:06,779
It really, I think,
is a rare
358
00:19:06,813 --> 00:19:08,548
and kind of cool thing
that Mirage did there.
359
00:19:15,188 --> 00:19:17,590
The Turtles have always
been very malleable.
360
00:19:18,791 --> 00:19:21,661
Different artists have
different takes on them,
361
00:19:21,694 --> 00:19:23,596
some more cartoony
than others,
362
00:19:24,797 --> 00:19:26,799
some more realistic
than others.
363
00:19:28,801 --> 00:19:32,439
BROWN: Mike Dooney, he's
a great all-around artist,
364
00:19:32,472 --> 00:19:33,373
especially his paintings.
365
00:19:36,809 --> 00:19:40,413
And Jim's dynamic
with his layouts
366
00:19:40,447 --> 00:19:42,482
and his poses that
his characters strike.
367
00:19:46,953 --> 00:19:51,258
Eric's a fan favorite,
everyone loves his stuff,
because his is real gritty,
368
00:19:51,291 --> 00:19:54,327
kind of, in a way of,
like, Kevin gritty.
369
00:19:54,361 --> 00:19:56,296
And I've always really
admired Pete's work,
370
00:19:56,329 --> 00:19:57,997
because I think
it's so polished.
371
00:19:58,030 --> 00:20:00,066
Kevin and I were
incredibly happy
372
00:20:00,099 --> 00:20:01,401
with what was going
on with the comic
373
00:20:01,434 --> 00:20:04,404
because it was
selling really well,
374
00:20:04,437 --> 00:20:06,606
I think issue eight
was our high point,
375
00:20:06,639 --> 00:20:08,941
135,000 copies of
a black-and-white comic.
376
00:20:10,209 --> 00:20:12,178
It was really
a dream come true,
377
00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:14,281
we were doing exactly
what we wanted to do,
378
00:20:14,314 --> 00:20:16,349
drawing what we
wanted to draw
379
00:20:16,383 --> 00:20:17,950
and making
good money at it.
380
00:20:17,984 --> 00:20:19,218
Pete!
381
00:20:19,252 --> 00:20:20,387
LAIRD: What's that, Kev?
382
00:20:21,588 --> 00:20:23,590
See, we had
a design idea here.
383
00:20:23,623 --> 00:20:25,692
See up here
where it's all white,
384
00:20:25,725 --> 00:20:29,195
and this is a solid
black building wall.
385
00:20:29,228 --> 00:20:31,598
I kind of got the idea that
I thought it should go
all the way to the top.
386
00:20:38,137 --> 00:20:42,509
The fact that it was selling
more than The Avengers
was kind of wacky,
387
00:20:42,542 --> 00:20:44,544
but to me it still
wasn't mainstream,
388
00:20:44,577 --> 00:20:46,979
and it wasn't mainstream
until Surge Licensing hit
389
00:20:47,013 --> 00:20:48,315
and the Turtles
really changed
390
00:20:48,348 --> 00:20:51,451
and became more of
a mainstream product.
391
00:20:51,484 --> 00:20:53,686
That was what
really surprised me.
392
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,722
When the boys decided,
"You know what,
393
00:20:55,755 --> 00:20:59,326
"we're gonna not
control this so much,
394
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:00,827
"we're gonna
open it up
395
00:21:00,860 --> 00:21:03,630
"and we're gonna let it
be something for kids."
396
00:21:03,663 --> 00:21:06,399
That was a really
interesting decision.
397
00:21:07,266 --> 00:21:09,336
Then the Turtles
went mainstream
398
00:21:09,369 --> 00:21:11,304
in a way that nobody
could have expected.
399
00:21:29,722 --> 00:21:33,693
The fact that Mark Freedman
showed up as a fan
400
00:21:33,726 --> 00:21:36,663
and convinced
Kevin and Peter
401
00:21:36,696 --> 00:21:39,432
to let him take this chance
with the toys
402
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,402
was another one
of these moments
403
00:21:42,435 --> 00:21:45,638
where without
this one thing,
404
00:21:45,672 --> 00:21:49,041
the whole franchise
would never have existed.
405
00:21:53,413 --> 00:21:56,516
We started getting a couple
calls from licensing agents,
people that said...
406
00:21:56,549 --> 00:21:57,784
We'd get this
call and be like,
407
00:21:57,817 --> 00:21:59,719
"I'm so-and-so,
I'm from New York,
408
00:21:59,752 --> 00:22:01,287
"I represent
blah, blah, blah...
409
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,756
"I think that your
characters would make
410
00:22:03,790 --> 00:22:06,393
"great cartoon characters
or toy characters."
411
00:22:07,226 --> 00:22:09,295
When I first
heard the words
412
00:22:09,328 --> 00:22:11,931
"Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles,"
413
00:22:11,964 --> 00:22:14,300
I jumped out of my skin.
414
00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:16,636
There was something
about that name.
415
00:22:16,669 --> 00:22:18,337
We had a meeting with
a couple of these guys
416
00:22:18,371 --> 00:22:20,139
that we really weren't
that impressed with
417
00:22:20,172 --> 00:22:23,410
and until I think
418
00:22:23,443 --> 00:22:26,979
agent number five or six
that called was a guy
named Mark Freedman,
419
00:22:27,013 --> 00:22:28,548
and he wanted to
come up and meet with us.
420
00:22:28,581 --> 00:22:30,149
He showed up at
our office door,
421
00:22:30,182 --> 00:22:32,018
both Peter and
I were in shorts
422
00:22:32,051 --> 00:22:34,721
and short-sleeved shirts,
and we had been re-painting
the office.
423
00:22:34,754 --> 00:22:38,290
So, it was one of these
worlds in collision
kind of things.
424
00:22:38,324 --> 00:22:40,693
My suit was rented,
my tie was rented,
my car was rented.
425
00:22:41,894 --> 00:22:44,564
I am absolutely camera shy.
I absolutely hate it.
426
00:22:44,597 --> 00:22:46,365
LAIRD: Too late, Mark.
427
00:22:46,399 --> 00:22:49,035
He starts on a spiel
where, "I want five years
428
00:22:49,068 --> 00:22:51,771
"and I want this
and I want to do
blah, blah, blah..."
429
00:22:51,804 --> 00:22:53,806
And we said, "Mark,
we've been down
this road before,
430
00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:55,341
"we understand
trademark and copyright,
431
00:22:55,374 --> 00:22:56,609
"and we've
protected our characters
432
00:22:56,643 --> 00:23:01,614
"and we're very
happy with the business
we have now."
433
00:23:01,648 --> 00:23:05,017
I know I've gotta
represent the Turtles,
this is gonna be it,
434
00:23:05,952 --> 00:23:08,955
and I would have done
any deal with them.
435
00:23:08,988 --> 00:23:12,224
"We'll give you
30 days, 45 days,
and you go out
436
00:23:12,258 --> 00:23:14,561
"and if you can
bring back something
interesting offer-wise,
437
00:23:14,594 --> 00:23:15,795
"then we'll continue
talking with you,
438
00:23:15,828 --> 00:23:17,163
"and you'll
progress from there."
439
00:23:17,196 --> 00:23:20,166
FREEDMAN:
They gave me two things
as a going away present.
440
00:23:20,199 --> 00:23:24,537
One was an original first
printing of the comic
441
00:23:24,571 --> 00:23:28,340
where they wrote,
"Go out and make me
$1 million or else."
442
00:23:28,374 --> 00:23:33,446
And they also gave me
a 4-foot foam rubber
replica of a Turtle,
443
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,948
which I knew
would really help me
444
00:23:36,883 --> 00:23:39,719
in presenting this
to various toy companies
445
00:23:39,752 --> 00:23:41,420
and broadcasters and
so on and so forth.
446
00:23:41,454 --> 00:23:44,023
I'm leaving Northampton
in my rented car
447
00:23:44,056 --> 00:23:46,493
and I've got this
4-foot turtle next to me.
448
00:23:46,526 --> 00:23:50,229
I had in my hands
what I hoped would be,
449
00:23:50,262 --> 00:23:53,265
of course, no one knew,
what I hoped would
be a terrific hit.
450
00:23:53,299 --> 00:23:55,201
Now the real work begins.
451
00:24:03,442 --> 00:24:06,078
I was laughed at
by a lot of people.
452
00:24:06,112 --> 00:24:08,748
I even heard secondhand
that even Disney looked
at it at one point
453
00:24:08,781 --> 00:24:11,518
and thought
it was ridiculous.
454
00:24:11,551 --> 00:24:15,454
So, again, it's
the classic story of
people always reject
455
00:24:15,488 --> 00:24:17,590
what they don't understand.
456
00:24:19,892 --> 00:24:24,030
Ultimately, I contacted
a guy by the name
of Richard Sallis,
457
00:24:24,063 --> 00:24:26,899
who was the
marketing director
at Playmates Toys.
458
00:24:26,933 --> 00:24:29,569
And I tell him,
"I have a really
interesting property.
459
00:24:29,602 --> 00:24:31,403
"I've got to send
you something first."
460
00:24:31,437 --> 00:24:32,605
I call up my
friend Richard,
461
00:24:32,639 --> 00:24:33,840
I said, "Richard,
you get the box?"
462
00:24:33,873 --> 00:24:36,909
He said, "Yeah.
What is it?"
463
00:24:36,943 --> 00:24:39,979
JOHN HANDY: And Playmates
manufactured action figures
464
00:24:40,012 --> 00:24:42,615
for all kinds of companies,
including Mattel.
465
00:24:42,649 --> 00:24:45,051
But they weren't marketed
under their own name.
466
00:24:45,084 --> 00:24:46,686
So, we were interested
467
00:24:46,719 --> 00:24:48,788
in possibly getting into
the action figure business,
468
00:24:48,821 --> 00:24:50,489
but I only wanted to do it
if we could do something
469
00:24:50,523 --> 00:24:52,291
that was completely
different.
470
00:24:52,324 --> 00:24:55,762
And one particular day,
these black-and-white
comic books came in
471
00:24:55,795 --> 00:24:58,030
about the Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles.
472
00:24:58,064 --> 00:25:00,900
And Karl Aaronian, who
was the marketing guy,
and myself
473
00:25:00,933 --> 00:25:03,002
were asked
to evaluate these
474
00:25:03,035 --> 00:25:04,971
and see what we thought,
if there was anything there.
475
00:25:05,004 --> 00:25:07,707
Richard Sallis, who
eventually became my boss,
476
00:25:07,740 --> 00:25:11,410
and really the key to
Turtles in many ways,
477
00:25:11,443 --> 00:25:13,613
threw me a couple
of the comic books
across the table
478
00:25:13,646 --> 00:25:16,683
and said, "What do you
think about this?"
479
00:25:16,716 --> 00:25:19,986
And I guess I gave
the right answer,
because I got hired.
480
00:25:20,019 --> 00:25:22,855
And we both independently
fell in love with them
481
00:25:22,889 --> 00:25:24,423
and thought in
their current form,
482
00:25:24,456 --> 00:25:26,258
they're a little
too adult for kids,
483
00:25:26,292 --> 00:25:29,796
but in a different form,
the essence of what
they were all about
484
00:25:29,829 --> 00:25:31,698
would be perfect
for an action figure line.
485
00:25:31,731 --> 00:25:33,099
The more we worked with it,
486
00:25:33,132 --> 00:25:35,367
the more we had tangible
things in our hands,
487
00:25:35,401 --> 00:25:38,137
the more we decided this
was gonna be really big.
488
00:25:38,170 --> 00:25:40,506
And being the
over-promoter that I am,
489
00:25:40,539 --> 00:25:41,641
I told everyone
in the company,
490
00:25:41,674 --> 00:25:43,042
"On Friday,
you're gonna see
491
00:25:43,075 --> 00:25:45,177
"the best product line
you've ever seen
in your life,
492
00:25:45,211 --> 00:25:47,413
"it's gonna change
the face of Playmates Toys."
493
00:25:47,446 --> 00:25:49,381
So everyone came.
494
00:25:49,415 --> 00:25:50,817
We sat around
this big table,
495
00:25:50,850 --> 00:25:52,484
and Karl and I proceeded
496
00:25:52,518 --> 00:25:55,054
to tell the story
of the Turtles and
show these products,
497
00:25:55,087 --> 00:25:57,156
and we were so into it,
we weren't even really
498
00:25:57,189 --> 00:25:59,592
watching the reaction
of the crowd,
499
00:25:59,626 --> 00:26:02,261
which wasn't
particularly good.
500
00:26:02,294 --> 00:26:05,031
(INDISTINCT TALKING)
501
00:26:05,064 --> 00:26:07,667
I remember sitting in
my office with Karl,
502
00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:09,702
and we were
polishing up our resumes.
503
00:26:09,736 --> 00:26:11,938
Just basically we
gotta get out of here,
because we just had...
504
00:26:11,971 --> 00:26:13,572
We just wasted
three months
505
00:26:13,606 --> 00:26:15,407
and the company's
not that happy with us.
506
00:26:15,441 --> 00:26:17,509
And in comes
Richard Sallis,
507
00:26:17,543 --> 00:26:19,011
who was the
head of marketing,
508
00:26:19,045 --> 00:26:22,715
and he said, "Hey, guys,
I really loved the Turtles
on Friday.
509
00:26:22,749 --> 00:26:24,250
"That was great.
Great product line."
510
00:26:26,152 --> 00:26:28,988
And we were just silent,
and I said, "Mr. Sallis,
511
00:26:29,021 --> 00:26:30,657
"it would be awfully
great of you
512
00:26:30,690 --> 00:26:32,524
"if you had said
something in the meeting,
513
00:26:32,558 --> 00:26:34,426
"we needed a little bit
of support there."
514
00:26:34,460 --> 00:26:35,728
And he goes, "No,
you lost the crowd,
515
00:26:35,762 --> 00:26:37,864
"the crowd was
against you,
516
00:26:37,897 --> 00:26:40,099
"but it's not the end.
It's never quite the end."
517
00:26:45,037 --> 00:26:47,106
The comic wasn't reaching
a broad enough audience.
518
00:26:47,139 --> 00:26:50,309
So, we knew before
we could sell a single toy,
519
00:26:50,342 --> 00:26:54,613
we had to produce the
backstory in animation.
520
00:26:54,647 --> 00:26:56,816
We had to tell the story
through television
521
00:26:56,849 --> 00:26:57,850
and bring it to the kids.
522
00:27:05,357 --> 00:27:08,728
It was 1985 or '86
523
00:27:08,761 --> 00:27:10,930
when an advertising agency
524
00:27:10,963 --> 00:27:14,967
named Sachs Finley
came to me with a comic book
525
00:27:15,001 --> 00:27:17,403
and put it down on the table
in front of me
526
00:27:17,436 --> 00:27:20,907
and said, "Fred, can you
make a TV show out of this?"
527
00:27:20,940 --> 00:27:22,675
First I kept staring
at the title,
528
00:27:22,709 --> 00:27:24,476
and I thought,
"This is cool."
529
00:27:24,510 --> 00:27:26,512
And I said,
"Well, I'll look at it,
530
00:27:26,545 --> 00:27:28,280
"but I think
it's safe to say
531
00:27:28,314 --> 00:27:30,950
"I can make a TV program
of just about anything."
532
00:27:30,983 --> 00:27:32,651
They went to a writer
named Chuck Lorre.
533
00:27:34,053 --> 00:27:38,257
Chuck Lorre created
Grace Under Fire,
534
00:27:38,290 --> 00:27:41,093
Big Bang Theory,
Two and a Half Men.
535
00:27:41,127 --> 00:27:46,498
He's the most
successful sitcom guy
probably of all time.
536
00:27:46,532 --> 00:27:49,936
At that time,
he was doing animation
537
00:27:49,969 --> 00:27:53,472
and he was already
moving into sitcoms,
538
00:27:53,505 --> 00:27:55,607
and he just didn't
have the time to do it.
539
00:27:55,641 --> 00:27:57,810
He said,
"But I know this guy
540
00:27:57,844 --> 00:27:59,645
"who would be
perfect for it."
541
00:27:59,678 --> 00:28:03,682
And working with the writer,
David Wise,
542
00:28:03,716 --> 00:28:07,053
who was, in my opinion,
what really set
543
00:28:08,587 --> 00:28:10,790
the keystone of
the whole franchise.
544
00:28:10,823 --> 00:28:13,726
He said,
"I'm calling because
545
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,028
"we're going to be
doing this new show."
546
00:28:17,329 --> 00:28:20,366
And with great embarrassment
in his voice
547
00:28:20,399 --> 00:28:27,306
he said, "It's sort of about
teenagers and mutants."
548
00:28:27,339 --> 00:28:30,042
And I said,
"Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles?"
549
00:28:30,076 --> 00:28:33,780
And you could
hear him
550
00:28:33,813 --> 00:28:36,148
fall over backwards at
the other end of the line.
551
00:28:36,182 --> 00:28:38,284
You could hear
the back of his head
hit the floor,
552
00:28:38,317 --> 00:28:40,186
when he picked
himself up, he said,
"You've heard of it?"
553
00:28:40,219 --> 00:28:42,321
I said, "I have the first
five issues of the comic."
554
00:28:42,354 --> 00:28:46,592
So, very cleverly,
while Playmates Toys
was designing these toys
555
00:28:46,625 --> 00:28:49,361
to be made from
the comic book,
556
00:28:49,395 --> 00:28:51,798
we were making the TV show.
557
00:28:51,831 --> 00:28:53,933
WISE: It's
such a genius title,
558
00:28:53,966 --> 00:28:56,702
it's such a genius concept.
559
00:28:56,735 --> 00:28:59,471
If we do it right,
it could be a hit.
560
00:28:59,505 --> 00:29:02,608
And so really,
especially those
first five episodes
561
00:29:02,641 --> 00:29:06,112
that set the table
for everything else
that followed
562
00:29:06,145 --> 00:29:08,881
was a collaborative effort
between Playmates
563
00:29:08,915 --> 00:29:11,617
and Fred and
everybody else.
564
00:29:11,650 --> 00:29:14,053
EASTMAN: Playmates Toys.
565
00:29:14,086 --> 00:29:16,789
Playmates Toys flew
us out to California
566
00:29:16,823 --> 00:29:19,425
and started discussing
the Turtles as toys.
567
00:29:20,492 --> 00:29:22,194
Added into the mix
shortly thereafter
568
00:29:22,228 --> 00:29:23,595
was Turtles as
an animated series,
569
00:29:23,629 --> 00:29:27,834
and even in those days,
you're talking '86, '87,
570
00:29:27,867 --> 00:29:29,435
you still had to have
this partnership between
571
00:29:29,468 --> 00:29:32,338
the animation and
toy companies as
commercial exploitation
572
00:29:32,371 --> 00:29:34,306
and get the thing out there
so everybody makes money.
573
00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:36,108
This is very neat.
574
00:29:36,142 --> 00:29:38,377
LAIRD: It's pretty nutty.
575
00:29:38,410 --> 00:29:39,745
(IMITATING SCREAMING)
576
00:29:39,778 --> 00:29:41,948
Let's talk first
about action figures.
577
00:29:42,614 --> 00:29:47,486
In December of 1986,
578
00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:52,224
we signed our first license
with Playmates Toys.
579
00:29:54,193 --> 00:29:56,262
Kevin called and says,
"Get over here,
580
00:29:56,295 --> 00:29:57,830
"we got big news."
581
00:29:57,864 --> 00:30:00,332
So, Jim and I hopped
in the car and went over,
582
00:30:00,366 --> 00:30:03,335
and they said Playmates
had accepted the Turtles
and they were gonna do it.
583
00:30:03,870 --> 00:30:06,072
(ALL CHEERING)
584
00:30:06,105 --> 00:30:08,274
And it was just great,
it was just amazing.
585
00:30:09,876 --> 00:30:11,677
(LAUGHING)
586
00:30:11,710 --> 00:30:13,846
Yeah!
Yeah!
587
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,283
Mom goes, "This is
my dream come true."
588
00:30:17,316 --> 00:30:20,019
It was a surreal
moment to think
589
00:30:21,653 --> 00:30:24,723
less than three years
590
00:30:24,756 --> 00:30:27,393
after we scraped
together the money
591
00:30:27,426 --> 00:30:30,496
to publish this first issue
of the Turtle comic,
592
00:30:30,529 --> 00:30:34,366
we were gonna have
a TV show and a toy line.
593
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,302
Ladies and gentlemen,
594
00:30:36,335 --> 00:30:39,005
this is for the
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
595
00:30:39,038 --> 00:30:40,806
Wait a minute,
is it on?
(GRUNTS)
596
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:42,341
(CORK POPS)
(ALL CHEERING)
597
00:30:47,846 --> 00:30:49,581
We should do
a massive toast.
598
00:30:50,482 --> 00:30:52,985
(ALL CHEERING)
599
00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:16,008
In the early iterations
of our product line,
600
00:31:16,042 --> 00:31:17,910
we had a lot of
things that we were
601
00:31:17,944 --> 00:31:19,478
looking at and
struggling with.
602
00:31:19,511 --> 00:31:22,648
We thought we would
take everyone who would be
603
00:31:22,681 --> 00:31:25,151
a recognizable
kind of character
in New York City,
604
00:31:25,184 --> 00:31:27,186
a fireman,
policeman, baker,
605
00:31:27,219 --> 00:31:29,155
most of them
were bad guys,
606
00:31:29,188 --> 00:31:32,158
and they had
weapons relating
to their profession.
607
00:31:36,262 --> 00:31:38,564
Powerfully spring-loaded
leg right here,
608
00:31:38,597 --> 00:31:40,466
you'd cock it back
609
00:31:40,499 --> 00:31:43,069
and then you got
your trigger in the back,
and you aim this thing.
610
00:31:43,102 --> 00:31:44,436
And Kevin and Peter
had to look
611
00:31:44,470 --> 00:31:46,973
at all these things about
these crazy bakers
612
00:31:47,006 --> 00:31:49,942
that had pizza
throwing devices
and all this stuff.
613
00:31:49,976 --> 00:31:54,513
LAIRD: There's an aspect
of this character
that disturbs me,
614
00:31:54,546 --> 00:31:57,783
and it's sort of
related to what we were
talking about earlier
615
00:31:57,816 --> 00:32:02,454
about drifting over
into the really silly
stupid realm.
616
00:32:02,488 --> 00:32:05,424
EASTMAN:
Yeah, too beyond.
Too much.
617
00:32:06,358 --> 00:32:08,660
We did some
goofier things,
618
00:32:08,694 --> 00:32:11,964
and even the
figures themselves,
619
00:32:11,998 --> 00:32:15,001
quite frankly, were
probably too ambitious,
620
00:32:15,034 --> 00:32:17,903
because we had
sculpted figures
that were huge,
621
00:32:17,936 --> 00:32:20,572
and some of the bad guys
were muscle-bound
622
00:32:20,606 --> 00:32:24,110
and probably would have
been a $10 figure in 1988.
623
00:32:25,978 --> 00:32:27,946
You have to go
as far as you can
624
00:32:27,980 --> 00:32:30,649
and iterate as much
as you can
625
00:32:30,682 --> 00:32:32,051
and then
pull it back in.
626
00:32:32,084 --> 00:32:34,153
If you start narrow focused,
you'll stay there,
627
00:32:34,186 --> 00:32:36,155
so we blew it out
as big as we could.
628
00:32:37,123 --> 00:32:39,558
The key for playsets
in those days
629
00:32:39,591 --> 00:32:42,394
is let the playset be
a character as well.
630
00:32:42,428 --> 00:32:46,098
So if you remember
Snake Mountain and
Castle Grayskull
631
00:32:46,132 --> 00:32:48,334
and all these things,
they had characters to them.
632
00:32:48,367 --> 00:32:50,136
So, we were even
struggling with what
would the Turtle...
633
00:32:50,169 --> 00:32:52,404
Would there be something
built into the walls
634
00:32:52,438 --> 00:32:55,141
of the Turtles' lair
in the sewer
635
00:32:55,174 --> 00:32:59,145
that would be a character
that could also talk and
be part of it?
636
00:32:59,178 --> 00:33:01,447
But I think what happened
637
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,849
is Bill Carlson felt like
that looked like a deity.
638
00:33:03,882 --> 00:33:07,053
He said there'll be
no deities in the
Playmates line,
639
00:33:07,086 --> 00:33:09,288
so we had to
cancel that out,
640
00:33:09,321 --> 00:33:11,323
and it didn't hurt anything
to get rid of it
641
00:33:11,357 --> 00:33:12,924
because it really
didn't need that.
642
00:33:12,958 --> 00:33:15,927
That was just a place
for them to hang out
643
00:33:15,961 --> 00:33:18,264
and it made it
less complicated
644
00:33:18,297 --> 00:33:20,399
to explain what that
character was anyway.
645
00:33:20,432 --> 00:33:23,035
Like anything else,
we retrenched
and said, "Okay,
646
00:33:23,069 --> 00:33:25,704
"let's dial it back
a couple of notches
647
00:33:25,737 --> 00:33:28,940
"and let's try to make this
a little more realistic."
648
00:33:28,974 --> 00:33:33,179
So, it meant making the
figures somewhat smaller.
649
00:33:35,047 --> 00:33:36,482
This to me is like
the perfect size.
650
00:33:36,515 --> 00:33:37,783
EASTMAN: Is that
the size you want?
651
00:33:37,816 --> 00:33:38,650
That's the size
we're going for.
652
00:33:38,684 --> 00:33:40,119
I love it.
653
00:33:40,152 --> 00:33:42,221
Three and a half inches
was the scale we picked,
654
00:33:42,254 --> 00:33:43,389
and that's small,
655
00:33:43,422 --> 00:33:45,524
that would be
the size of a G.I. Joe,
656
00:33:45,557 --> 00:33:48,194
but with the bulk
of the Turtles,
they looked bigger.
657
00:33:48,227 --> 00:33:50,062
And then that
scale worked with
658
00:33:50,096 --> 00:33:52,664
all kinds of vehicles
that we could create.
659
00:33:52,698 --> 00:33:56,034
We put the essence
of the Turtle into
every product,
660
00:33:56,068 --> 00:33:59,371
so the van had
the turtle shell top
661
00:33:59,405 --> 00:34:02,474
and the helicopter had
that grimacing face,
662
00:34:02,508 --> 00:34:05,211
and we just had turtle
essence in all of the
stuff that they had.
663
00:34:05,244 --> 00:34:08,714
The Turtles' lair playset
and the Technodrome
664
00:34:08,747 --> 00:34:11,183
were these
golden opportunities
665
00:34:11,217 --> 00:34:14,420
to put everything in
its correct context.
666
00:34:14,453 --> 00:34:17,256
They were almost legendary
among my friends.
667
00:34:20,492 --> 00:34:23,095
WISE: I basically
wanted a mobile
villain's headquarters.
668
00:34:23,129 --> 00:34:25,364
So I had the idea of
this big giant thing
on wheels,
669
00:34:25,397 --> 00:34:28,767
and I said,
"It's this huge globe,
670
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,138
"it's like a world,
it's like a Death Star
on wheels."
671
00:34:32,904 --> 00:34:35,073
So, that's what
the design did.
672
00:34:35,107 --> 00:34:36,275
What I didn't say was,
673
00:34:36,308 --> 00:34:38,277
"It had a big
eyeball on top."
674
00:34:38,310 --> 00:34:40,446
That wasn't my idea,
that was a design idea.
675
00:34:40,479 --> 00:34:43,482
My physical contribution
just on the action
figures alone,
676
00:34:43,515 --> 00:34:45,717
taking one that
was already posed out
677
00:34:45,751 --> 00:34:48,987
and deciding to cut that up
as a posed figure.
678
00:34:49,020 --> 00:34:52,391
Not with the arms
straight down and
the legs straight out,
679
00:34:52,424 --> 00:34:57,463
and cut the limbs
and bias the forearms
and put the ball sockets in,
680
00:34:57,496 --> 00:35:01,900
and actually realized that
that makes a better figure
than one that was
681
00:35:01,933 --> 00:35:03,569
traditionally
before that.
682
00:35:03,602 --> 00:35:05,103
They were all
straight up and down
683
00:35:05,137 --> 00:35:06,905
and you put the
pose on them.
684
00:35:06,938 --> 00:35:11,009
Well, we started with
the first size study
that Steve Varner did
685
00:35:11,042 --> 00:35:13,745
and actually made
the articulation
based on that.
686
00:35:13,779 --> 00:35:16,648
VARNER: He just had the
black-and-white comic book,
that's all he had.
687
00:35:16,682 --> 00:35:19,285
He just showed me
the comic book and
it was really
688
00:35:19,318 --> 00:35:23,789
up to me to come up
with my version of it.
689
00:35:23,822 --> 00:35:27,193
And to begin with,
at least on these
first ones,
690
00:35:27,226 --> 00:35:29,361
there were no
drawings involved,
691
00:35:29,395 --> 00:35:31,230
I just did it in 3D.
692
00:35:31,263 --> 00:35:33,232
I just kind of went,
693
00:35:33,265 --> 00:35:36,968
"Okay, well, this is what
I would do to make it
the way I like it." (LAUGHS)
694
00:35:37,002 --> 00:35:39,405
The only
differences, really,
695
00:35:39,438 --> 00:35:43,809
is that first one that
we did had a tail,
which we lost.
696
00:35:43,842 --> 00:35:47,012
But other than that,
it just pretty much
stayed the same.
697
00:35:47,045 --> 00:35:50,416
There was a lot of
focus on the fact that
they were in the sewer.
698
00:35:50,449 --> 00:35:52,150
And what's in the sewer,
you know?
699
00:35:52,184 --> 00:35:55,687
Nasty, ugly, stinky stuff,
700
00:35:55,721 --> 00:35:59,558
and how can we play that up,
but in a nice clean way
701
00:35:59,591 --> 00:36:02,561
for consumption?
Not literally, hopefully.
702
00:36:02,594 --> 00:36:04,963
Most toy guys would
realize from day one
703
00:36:04,996 --> 00:36:09,401
that you've gotta sell
multiple characters, figures,
704
00:36:09,435 --> 00:36:12,438
and if they look
identical or similar,
705
00:36:12,471 --> 00:36:13,839
that's gonna be
tough to do.
706
00:36:13,872 --> 00:36:16,107
That's probably
the only limitation of
Turtles I can think of.
707
00:36:16,141 --> 00:36:17,309
It's perfect in
every other respect,
708
00:36:17,343 --> 00:36:18,910
it's unique,
it's exciting,
709
00:36:18,944 --> 00:36:20,679
is that a Turtle's
a Turtle.
710
00:36:20,712 --> 00:36:22,414
So, from day one,
I think he realized,
711
00:36:22,448 --> 00:36:23,649
even in the
graphic novels
712
00:36:23,682 --> 00:36:25,751
where they all
had red bandanas,
713
00:36:25,784 --> 00:36:29,120
that there had to be
more differentiation
of the Turtles.
714
00:36:29,154 --> 00:36:30,556
If you have
four characters,
715
00:36:30,589 --> 00:36:32,591
especially four characters
who look alike,
716
00:36:32,624 --> 00:36:34,693
you want to give them
distinct personalities.
717
00:36:34,726 --> 00:36:37,062
In the comic, the only way
you could tell them apart
718
00:36:37,095 --> 00:36:40,065
was by what weapon
they were carrying.
719
00:36:40,098 --> 00:36:43,802
AARONIAN: Now, that ended up
being done with color
more than anything else.
720
00:36:43,835 --> 00:36:48,474
So, the bandana colors,
the pad colors and
the skin colors.
721
00:36:48,507 --> 00:36:51,443
And then the added initial
on the belt buckle
722
00:36:51,477 --> 00:36:53,412
was just a way
to reinforce that.
723
00:36:53,445 --> 00:36:55,180
The whole idea
was that you could
724
00:36:55,213 --> 00:36:56,915
immediately
tell the difference
between the Turtles
725
00:36:56,948 --> 00:36:59,285
by looking at
the figures,
726
00:36:59,318 --> 00:37:00,452
whether they were in
the package or not.
727
00:37:03,722 --> 00:37:05,557
WISE: And when you
have groups of four,
728
00:37:05,591 --> 00:37:08,260
there's sort of
a classic archetype four.
729
00:37:08,294 --> 00:37:09,395
And there's
a reason for that,
730
00:37:09,428 --> 00:37:10,862
because it's
kind of like
731
00:37:10,896 --> 00:37:15,401
spirit, mind, body,
left foot, I don't know.
732
00:37:15,434 --> 00:37:16,868
If you just looked
at the comics,
733
00:37:16,902 --> 00:37:18,704
at our drawings
of the Turtles,
734
00:37:18,737 --> 00:37:20,739
you couldn't tell
one from the other,
except for the weapon.
735
00:37:20,772 --> 00:37:23,041
You couldn't say
one's the leader,
right?
736
00:37:23,074 --> 00:37:25,877
But everyone
who reads it,
737
00:37:25,911 --> 00:37:28,079
all these little kids,
they know Leonardo's
the leader,
738
00:37:28,113 --> 00:37:29,815
they know Raphael's
the crazy one,
739
00:37:29,848 --> 00:37:31,750
they know Michelangelo
is the goofy one,
740
00:37:31,783 --> 00:37:34,085
they know Donatello
is the serious one.
Right.
741
00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:37,055
And I think once
the kids start getting
into the stories,
742
00:37:37,088 --> 00:37:40,759
and especially if
the animation is gonna
be on TV,
743
00:37:40,792 --> 00:37:43,729
and they're gonna be
absorbing these kinds
of stories
744
00:37:43,762 --> 00:37:46,598
and the toys will
feed into the TV
and vice versa.
745
00:37:46,632 --> 00:37:48,367
And I really thought,
"What will work
for these guys
746
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,202
"and what will work for
making a TV series?"
747
00:37:51,236 --> 00:37:53,739
Well, you need a leader,
he would be the most
748
00:37:53,772 --> 00:37:56,007
into the martial arts,
and the lore of
the martial arts
749
00:37:56,041 --> 00:37:58,444
and the tradition
and the training.
750
00:37:58,477 --> 00:38:01,880
You need the science guy,
the gadget guy,
751
00:38:01,913 --> 00:38:04,983
the MacGyver guy,
and that obviously
became Donatello.
752
00:38:05,016 --> 00:38:07,319
You need a sarcastic one,
and that became Raphael.
753
00:38:07,353 --> 00:38:09,755
You need somebody
754
00:38:09,788 --> 00:38:13,759
who really embodies
the teenageness
755
00:38:13,792 --> 00:38:16,728
of the fact that
these are teenagers,
756
00:38:16,762 --> 00:38:18,864
and who embodies
that spirit of fun
757
00:38:18,897 --> 00:38:21,867
and that is gonna
be Michelangelo.
758
00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:25,070
And I will tell you
that my original idea
with Michelangelo
759
00:38:25,103 --> 00:38:28,707
was to make him
kind of street.
760
00:38:28,740 --> 00:38:31,410
And, in fact,
you will notice
the very first line
761
00:38:31,443 --> 00:38:33,579
spoken by a Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtle
762
00:38:33,612 --> 00:38:36,348
in the first episode
763
00:38:36,382 --> 00:38:39,618
of Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles is what?
764
00:38:39,651 --> 00:38:41,587
DONATELLO: Chill out, homeboy.
765
00:38:41,620 --> 00:38:44,255
It was a modest,
focused toy line.
766
00:38:44,289 --> 00:38:46,392
A half-dozen
assortments,
767
00:38:46,425 --> 00:38:49,227
10 figures, and
that was about it.
768
00:38:49,260 --> 00:38:51,930
HANDY: Toys "R" Us loved it,
thought it was super fresh
769
00:38:51,963 --> 00:38:54,600
and were very excited
about it and said
770
00:38:54,633 --> 00:38:57,068
that they would take
a major position on it,
771
00:38:57,102 --> 00:38:59,270
and we started
moving forward.
772
00:38:59,304 --> 00:39:03,274
So, the TV show
first aired late '87
773
00:39:03,308 --> 00:39:05,010
between Christmas
and New Year's.
774
00:39:05,043 --> 00:39:06,678
And the ratings
were great.
775
00:39:07,413 --> 00:39:10,148
* Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
776
00:39:10,181 --> 00:39:12,518
* Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
777
00:39:12,551 --> 00:39:15,220
* Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
778
00:39:15,253 --> 00:39:16,855
* Heroes in a half shell
779
00:39:16,888 --> 00:39:17,956
* Turtle power
780
00:39:19,658 --> 00:39:21,760
The very first Playmates
781
00:39:21,793 --> 00:39:24,029
Teenage Mutant Ninja
Turtle action figures
782
00:39:24,062 --> 00:39:26,865
hit the shelves
and they sold out.
783
00:39:26,898 --> 00:39:29,367
Your kids are
gonna be real familiar
with these characters soon,
784
00:39:29,401 --> 00:39:31,770
the cartoon show debuted
just last weekend
785
00:39:31,803 --> 00:39:34,806
on almost 200
stations nationwide.
786
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,575
MALE REPORTER: For an adult,
as you can imagine,
787
00:39:36,608 --> 00:39:39,177
the whole idea seems,
well...
788
00:39:39,210 --> 00:39:41,046
Pretty radical.
789
00:39:41,079 --> 00:39:43,782
They keep on adding
good guys and bad guys.
790
00:39:43,815 --> 00:39:46,017
MALE REPORTER:
At such a frenzied pace
791
00:39:46,051 --> 00:39:48,420
that you wonder how
the workers in this
Chinese factory
792
00:39:48,454 --> 00:39:50,556
can keep up
with the demand.
793
00:39:50,589 --> 00:39:52,724
Guess what, they can't.
794
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,730
* Splinter taught them
to be ninja teens *
795
00:39:58,764 --> 00:40:01,867
So as we laughingly said,
the first night
796
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:05,904
of the TV shows
being on the air,
797
00:40:05,937 --> 00:40:08,306
we heard all those
trucks rustling out
798
00:40:08,339 --> 00:40:10,976
and all of the toys
going out to all
the markets there.
799
00:40:11,009 --> 00:40:13,745
So, that's where it became
the biggest hit ever.
800
00:40:13,779 --> 00:40:16,214
EASTMAN: And when it actually
appeared in TV Guide,
801
00:40:16,247 --> 00:40:17,749
and the shows aired
802
00:40:17,783 --> 00:40:19,785
and the ratings were good,
and we're sitting
in our living rooms
803
00:40:19,818 --> 00:40:21,953
and watching these,
it's like, "Oh, my God,
804
00:40:21,987 --> 00:40:23,822
"it's really happening.
This is amazing!"
805
00:40:23,855 --> 00:40:27,425
I recall it being slightly
surreal, because
806
00:40:28,460 --> 00:40:31,630
we had done this thing
just for fun.
807
00:40:33,231 --> 00:40:37,035
And it really kind of
took on a life of its own.
808
00:40:38,870 --> 00:40:40,539
Playmates was
delighted about it,
809
00:40:40,572 --> 00:40:42,741
so I was delighted after.
810
00:40:42,774 --> 00:40:43,775
So, I waited
a couple of weeks,
811
00:40:43,809 --> 00:40:45,644
then I contacted them again.
812
00:40:45,677 --> 00:40:48,046
I said,
"When do we do more?"
813
00:40:48,079 --> 00:40:50,181
And they said, "That's it.
There is no more."
814
00:40:51,683 --> 00:40:53,451
MALE ANNOUNCER:
From Playmates.
815
00:40:55,386 --> 00:40:56,822
And I said, "What?
816
00:40:56,855 --> 00:40:58,490
"I mean,
we got a big hit here."
817
00:40:58,524 --> 00:41:00,592
He says,
"No, we're satisfied."
818
00:41:00,626 --> 00:41:03,394
Playmates, Richard Sallis,
had indicated,
819
00:41:03,428 --> 00:41:06,197
"We did so well,
we did so many million."
820
00:41:06,231 --> 00:41:09,200
I forget the number,
but it was something
like 25 million.
821
00:41:09,234 --> 00:41:12,804
All right!
Now we can relax,
catch some boob tube
822
00:41:12,838 --> 00:41:14,973
and forget about
all that weirdness
we just went through.
823
00:41:15,006 --> 00:41:16,775
And I said, "Well,
who's got the rights?"
824
00:41:16,808 --> 00:41:18,710
He says, "Well, we had
the rights to the five
825
00:41:18,744 --> 00:41:21,780
"to produce
and distribute.
826
00:41:21,813 --> 00:41:25,150
"So, you'd have to speak to
Mark Freedman of Surge."
827
00:41:25,183 --> 00:41:27,586
And I said, "Mark,
what'll it take to get this?"
828
00:41:27,619 --> 00:41:28,887
And he said,
"What did you want to do?"
829
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:30,155
And I said, "Well, I want
to do more of them."
830
00:41:30,188 --> 00:41:31,557
And he liked that idea,
831
00:41:31,590 --> 00:41:33,892
and so we came to
some conclusion,
832
00:41:33,925 --> 00:41:36,227
some idea that
I would get the rights.
833
00:41:36,762 --> 00:41:38,063
(THEME MUSIC PLAYING)
834
00:41:39,798 --> 00:41:44,736
And the first assignment
we got from CBS involving
the Turtles
835
00:41:44,770 --> 00:41:47,639
was an order for 26,
which was extraordinary
836
00:41:47,673 --> 00:41:50,508
because they
usually tested the waters.
837
00:41:50,542 --> 00:41:52,678
But the waters
were already tested,
838
00:41:52,711 --> 00:41:55,046
the Turtles were out there,
they were a raving success.
839
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,116
The Turtles turned out to be
the saviors of the city.
840
00:41:58,149 --> 00:42:00,952
They're, like,
totally rad, man.
841
00:42:00,986 --> 00:42:04,255
Yeah, I want to be
a turtle when I grow up.
842
00:42:04,289 --> 00:42:07,158
APRIL: But who are they?
Where did they come from?
843
00:42:07,192 --> 00:42:09,928
It's a complete mystery.
844
00:42:09,961 --> 00:42:13,298
And with Turtles on
five days a week on the
CBS, came on Saturday,
845
00:42:13,331 --> 00:42:15,066
we're on
six days a week,
846
00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:18,136
and for a couple
of heartbeats or so
847
00:42:18,169 --> 00:42:21,306
there was something
happening on Sunday.
848
00:42:21,339 --> 00:42:23,141
They were on
seven days a week.
849
00:42:23,174 --> 00:42:27,245
We were turning out a show
every seven weeks.
850
00:42:27,278 --> 00:42:28,546
Six to seven weeks.
851
00:42:28,580 --> 00:42:31,917
A show turning
out to go overseas.
852
00:42:31,950 --> 00:42:35,286
And they would have
an additional six weeks
to do something.
853
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:39,490
So, within a 13-week cycle,
we'd have from beginning,
854
00:42:39,524 --> 00:42:43,228
from the recording,
to a finished product,
edited, delivered.
855
00:42:44,229 --> 00:42:47,165
It was fun to be
associated with it.
856
00:42:47,198 --> 00:42:50,168
But there was no place
to really go out and
have bragging rights,
857
00:42:51,770 --> 00:42:54,640
to go out and sit
in a bar and say,
"Do you know that
858
00:42:54,673 --> 00:42:57,075
"I'm the guy that's
putting this show together?"
859
00:42:57,108 --> 00:42:58,176
(INTERVIEWER LAUGHS)
860
00:42:58,209 --> 00:43:00,879
In the first episode,
I contrived a scene
861
00:43:00,912 --> 00:43:03,181
where Michelangelo
has to surf.
862
00:43:03,214 --> 00:43:05,116
They're in a building
that's being flooded,
863
00:43:05,150 --> 00:43:08,386
and there's a file cabinet
that goes over
and he jumps on it,
864
00:43:08,419 --> 00:43:11,422
and I remembered
from Peanuts
865
00:43:11,456 --> 00:43:13,659
in around '64 or '65,
866
00:43:13,692 --> 00:43:17,428
Schulz did a sequence
where Snoopy is surfing
867
00:43:17,462 --> 00:43:19,898
and he goes, "Cowabunga!"
868
00:43:19,931 --> 00:43:21,566
That's where I got it from.
869
00:43:21,599 --> 00:43:23,568
MICHELANGELO:
Cowabunga!
870
00:43:23,601 --> 00:43:27,172
When Fred heard
the recording session,
he said, "You know what,
871
00:43:27,205 --> 00:43:29,307
"that 'Cowabunga'
really works as
a catchphrase,
872
00:43:30,942 --> 00:43:33,578
"let's use it again."
And I went, "Yeah."
873
00:43:33,611 --> 00:43:35,647
And so the next time,
in the next episode
he's going, "Cowabunga."
874
00:43:35,681 --> 00:43:37,683
And then they're going,
"Cowabunga, dude."
875
00:43:37,716 --> 00:43:39,651
It's like "cowabunga"
and "dude."
876
00:43:39,685 --> 00:43:41,219
Putting them together,
that was my genius, folks.
877
00:43:44,155 --> 00:43:46,057
Cowabunga!
878
00:43:47,092 --> 00:43:49,627
The teenager needed
to be in there,
879
00:43:49,661 --> 00:43:50,796
and I thought, "Well,
what do teenagers do?"
880
00:43:50,829 --> 00:43:52,964
They eat pizza,
they watch videos.
881
00:43:52,998 --> 00:43:56,902
Fred quickly had the idea
they should put funny stuff
on the pizzas.
882
00:43:56,935 --> 00:43:58,469
Who had the pepperoni
and ice cream?
883
00:43:58,503 --> 00:44:00,571
DONATELLO: I want
some of the jelly beans
and mushrooms!
884
00:44:00,605 --> 00:44:03,742
WISE: I mean, it was
a contest to figure out
what kind of
885
00:44:05,476 --> 00:44:09,915
bubblegum, gefilte fish,
caviar, matzo balls.
886
00:44:09,948 --> 00:44:13,518
These characters,
Rocksteady and Bebop
887
00:44:13,551 --> 00:44:16,988
were designed
initially by Playmates,
888
00:44:17,022 --> 00:44:19,424
so they were brought into
the show immediately.
889
00:44:19,457 --> 00:44:21,126
We had no qualms
about them.
890
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:24,562
EASTMAN: These are
some ideas we have
for mutant characters,
891
00:44:24,595 --> 00:44:26,464
or I should say Pete has.
892
00:44:26,497 --> 00:44:28,233
Now, this is cool.
893
00:44:28,266 --> 00:44:30,869
This is very neat!
894
00:44:30,902 --> 00:44:35,440
This is a good one.
This is a punk warthog
895
00:44:35,473 --> 00:44:37,208
with snot gun, I believe,
896
00:44:37,242 --> 00:44:39,177
or something similar.
WOMAN: Mmm-hmm.
897
00:44:39,210 --> 00:44:41,646
But after a while,
they started developing
some other
898
00:44:41,679 --> 00:44:44,515
elements that became
very complicated.
899
00:44:44,549 --> 00:44:45,851
Here's our famous
Turtle Van.
900
00:44:46,885 --> 00:44:48,754
That's a little
complicated to draw.
901
00:44:53,058 --> 00:44:55,393
These are some
of the acetates.
902
00:44:55,426 --> 00:44:59,798
As I think by now,
everybody knows that
these acetates are
903
00:44:59,831 --> 00:45:03,468
tracings of the drawing
and then painted on the back.
904
00:45:03,501 --> 00:45:05,937
WISE: And in animation,
unlike live action scripts
905
00:45:05,971 --> 00:45:08,673
where you generally
just write in master shots,
906
00:45:08,706 --> 00:45:11,777
and if there's a fight scene,
basically you say,
"They fight,"
907
00:45:11,810 --> 00:45:14,746
unless there's
plot stuff going on.
908
00:45:15,947 --> 00:45:17,916
In animation,
you break it down into shots
909
00:45:17,949 --> 00:45:20,418
and they don't
necessarily follow that,
910
00:45:20,451 --> 00:45:22,788
but it's to
give them an idea of
where you're going.
911
00:45:26,992 --> 00:45:28,860
And we look
to you to start.
912
00:45:28,894 --> 00:45:30,862
You go first.
Always.
913
00:45:30,896 --> 00:45:31,997
I'm like
Senator Foghorn.
914
00:45:32,030 --> 00:45:33,799
Let's look to the guy
with the biggest mouth.
915
00:45:33,832 --> 00:45:35,400
(ALL LAUGHING)
916
00:45:35,433 --> 00:45:36,835
Are you rolling?
917
00:45:36,868 --> 00:45:39,337
My first encounter
with the Turtles
918
00:45:39,370 --> 00:45:41,139
was a call
from my agent.
919
00:45:41,172 --> 00:45:42,640
I mean, it was really
nothing, no big deal.
920
00:45:42,673 --> 00:45:45,376
I mean, it was
great to get a show.
921
00:45:45,410 --> 00:45:49,014
My agent called me
and said, "You have
an audition for a show
922
00:45:49,047 --> 00:45:50,916
"called Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles."
I said, "What?"
923
00:45:50,949 --> 00:45:53,184
Stu, the director,
came in and he said,
924
00:45:53,218 --> 00:45:54,619
"You guys are not
gonna believe this,
925
00:45:54,652 --> 00:45:56,487
"I'm gonna be directing
this new show,
926
00:45:56,521 --> 00:45:58,990
"and I want to
bring you guys in on it,
927
00:45:59,024 --> 00:46:01,092
"but look at this."
And he opens his bag
928
00:46:01,126 --> 00:46:04,562
and he pulls out a copy of
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
929
00:46:04,595 --> 00:46:05,897
One of the original comics.
930
00:46:05,931 --> 00:46:07,298
Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles?
931
00:46:07,332 --> 00:46:09,067
Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles? What?
932
00:46:09,100 --> 00:46:12,137
It was just the mix,
it was the chemistry.
933
00:46:12,170 --> 00:46:13,905
Everyone had to
have chemistry,
934
00:46:13,939 --> 00:46:15,807
but particularly
the four of us
935
00:46:15,841 --> 00:46:18,243
had to really
feel like roommates.
936
00:46:18,276 --> 00:46:21,412
Yeah, we don't get
many humans down here.
937
00:46:21,446 --> 00:46:24,582
Tonight I dine
on turtle soup.
938
00:46:24,615 --> 00:46:26,317
(MAN LAUGHING)
939
00:46:26,351 --> 00:46:28,453
AVERY: I remember
the first session
when I came in,
940
00:46:28,486 --> 00:46:29,988
and from the very
first session that I met
941
00:46:30,021 --> 00:46:31,522
all these people,
and it was just...
942
00:46:32,557 --> 00:46:35,726
It was a party, it was a joy.
It was a joy.
943
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,229
CLARKE: Originally, when
we first started doing it,
944
00:46:38,263 --> 00:46:40,431
they didn't know
whether Towney or I,
945
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,002
who was gonna
be Leonardo
946
00:46:44,035 --> 00:46:46,804
and who was gonna
be Michelangelo.
947
00:46:46,838 --> 00:46:51,109
We were supposed
to then switch back
and they never did.
948
00:46:51,142 --> 00:46:54,145
COLEMAN: They sort of
wanted the surfer dude,
kind of valley guy stuff,
949
00:46:54,179 --> 00:46:58,083
and the only thing
I could think about
at the time was Sean Penn
950
00:46:58,116 --> 00:47:00,218
in Fast Times at
Ridgemont High.
951
00:47:00,251 --> 00:47:03,188
And so I kind
of drew upon that
952
00:47:03,221 --> 00:47:05,223
and did a bit of
my version of that.
953
00:47:05,256 --> 00:47:07,893
Let's show them
the Turtles know
how to party!
954
00:47:07,926 --> 00:47:09,294
We've gotta practice!
955
00:47:10,695 --> 00:47:12,397
That was pretty much...
956
00:47:12,430 --> 00:47:14,966
I felt like the Professor
in Gilligan's Island.
957
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,834
Well, no matter
how it happened,
958
00:47:16,868 --> 00:47:18,436
it's up to us
to do something!
959
00:47:20,171 --> 00:47:23,808
And he said, "Just kind of
be yourself with Donatello."
960
00:47:23,841 --> 00:47:25,476
So, I was.
I mean, I just...
961
00:47:25,510 --> 00:47:26,811
This is my voice
962
00:47:26,844 --> 00:47:28,446
(IN HIGH VOICE)
and I just kind of
pitched it up here.
963
00:47:28,479 --> 00:47:30,548
Welcome aboard
the Turtle Blimp!
964
00:47:30,581 --> 00:47:32,583
It's almost
Shakespearean,
965
00:47:32,617 --> 00:47:33,985
it's almost
over the top
966
00:47:34,019 --> 00:47:36,221
and Shakespearean,
in that sense.
967
00:47:36,254 --> 00:47:38,089
(IN DEEP VOICE)
The same way I would do this,
I would go,
968
00:47:38,123 --> 00:47:40,725
"Mislike me not
for my complexion
969
00:47:40,758 --> 00:47:42,327
"the shadow of
the burnished sun,
970
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:44,362
"to whom I am a neighbor
and near born."
971
00:47:44,395 --> 00:47:48,166
(LAUGHING MANIACALLY)
Killers!
972
00:47:48,199 --> 00:47:50,902
That's quite a brain
you've got, Krang!
973
00:47:50,936 --> 00:47:55,873
Of course it is,
it's all I've got.
974
00:47:55,907 --> 00:47:59,777
FRALEY: Underneath,
secretly, I was playing
a Jewish mother, with Krang.
975
00:47:59,810 --> 00:48:01,779
(NASALLY)
This is what I get,
976
00:48:01,812 --> 00:48:04,715
I shouldn't expect
anything else.
977
00:48:04,749 --> 00:48:07,752
(IN NORMAL VOICE) You know?
They never knew,
but it was funny.
978
00:48:07,785 --> 00:48:11,389
SPLINTER: I in turn
named them after my favorite
Renaissance painters.
979
00:48:11,422 --> 00:48:16,661
They wanted him to sound
like a very learned man.
980
00:48:18,063 --> 00:48:19,897
The sensei, the teacher.
981
00:48:19,931 --> 00:48:21,432
It's news!
982
00:48:23,001 --> 00:48:26,037
Wait, come back
with my hiding place!
983
00:48:26,071 --> 00:48:28,039
And when I had to
do Vernon,
984
00:48:28,073 --> 00:48:30,208
I wanted to get as far away
from that as possible,
985
00:48:30,241 --> 00:48:34,412
so I got into a little bit
of a higher register.
986
00:48:34,445 --> 00:48:38,783
(IMITATING) April,
come on, let me do something,
let me get some credit.
987
00:48:38,816 --> 00:48:41,152
I came in one day
and they said,
"You're doing Bebop."
988
00:48:41,186 --> 00:48:43,388
I'm real good
at video games.
989
00:48:43,421 --> 00:48:46,291
(IN LOW VOICE)
I had to make it really low.
990
00:48:46,324 --> 00:48:47,993
(IN LOW VOICE)
I did Rocksteady,
991
00:48:48,026 --> 00:48:50,595
and I just made him
like a big, dumb kid.
992
00:48:50,628 --> 00:48:53,264
Third floor,
lingerie.
993
00:48:53,298 --> 00:48:56,234
And that is how
they became
994
00:48:56,267 --> 00:48:59,604
the Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles.
995
00:48:59,637 --> 00:49:01,506
Cowabunga, dudes!
996
00:49:04,509 --> 00:49:06,244
Hiya! (GRUNTING)
997
00:49:06,277 --> 00:49:08,079
(IN HIGH VOICE)
I am Donatello.
998
00:49:11,749 --> 00:49:13,718
(IN LOW VOICE)
I'm Shredder.
999
00:49:13,751 --> 00:49:15,353
(LAUGHING MANIACALLY)
1000
00:49:15,386 --> 00:49:19,124
This is April O'Neil,
Channel 6 News.
1001
00:49:19,157 --> 00:49:21,993
You should have seen
some of the outtakes,
these people are insane.
1002
00:49:22,027 --> 00:49:23,728
This man is crazy.
1003
00:49:23,761 --> 00:49:25,530
(IN NASAL VOICE)
Rule the universe!
1004
00:49:25,563 --> 00:49:27,898
They're all crazy.
Him, all of them together.
1005
00:49:27,932 --> 00:49:30,468
(IN LOW VOICE)
It was a pleasure
being Splinter.
1006
00:49:30,501 --> 00:49:33,371
(IMITATING)
I've always been Donatello,
even before I turned green.
1007
00:49:34,505 --> 00:49:37,008
Wait until the world
gets an eyeful of this!
1008
00:49:37,042 --> 00:49:38,143
* Turtle power
1009
00:49:40,245 --> 00:49:43,648
The five-part
miniseries airs
1010
00:49:43,681 --> 00:49:47,785
and all of a sudden
it's like a little tremor
before an earthquake.
1011
00:49:47,818 --> 00:49:50,055
We could just
sense that
1012
00:49:50,088 --> 00:49:53,091
kids were watching it,
and they liked it.
1013
00:49:53,124 --> 00:49:57,128
There was something going on,
it was almost electric.
1014
00:49:57,162 --> 00:49:59,997
Today's hot new heroes
1015
00:50:00,031 --> 00:50:02,667
are the Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles.
1016
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:04,235
(AUDIENCE CHEERING)
1017
00:50:06,104 --> 00:50:08,373
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
1018
00:50:08,406 --> 00:50:10,308
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
1019
00:50:10,341 --> 00:50:11,976
The Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles.
1020
00:50:12,009 --> 00:50:14,445
The crazy crime-fighting
Ninja Turtles.
1021
00:50:14,479 --> 00:50:17,082
These heroes
on the half shell are
now in the top 20
1022
00:50:17,115 --> 00:50:19,150
best-selling toys
in the country.
1023
00:50:19,184 --> 00:50:21,152
Your sons love those
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
1024
00:50:21,186 --> 00:50:22,720
They do,
it's an amazing story.
1025
00:50:22,753 --> 00:50:24,355
Even adults
like them too!
1026
00:50:24,389 --> 00:50:26,091
FREEDMAN: Gentlemen,
it's history in the making.
1027
00:50:26,124 --> 00:50:27,725
MAN: Where you at?
Aim that way.
1028
00:50:27,758 --> 00:50:29,026
Okay,
you're gonna narrate.
1029
00:50:29,060 --> 00:50:30,461
I'm gonna narrate.
History in the making.
1030
00:50:33,098 --> 00:50:34,599
(INDISTINCT TALKING)
1031
00:50:36,467 --> 00:50:39,003
And almost any parent
of young children
can tell you
1032
00:50:39,036 --> 00:50:42,073
this is an idea
whose time has come
to the silver screen.
1033
00:51:03,794 --> 00:51:07,665
It starts with a gentleman
by the name of Gary Propper,
1034
00:51:07,698 --> 00:51:11,169
who was the road manager
for the comedian, Gallagher.
1035
00:51:11,202 --> 00:51:13,638
And he found the first
graphic comic book,
1036
00:51:15,106 --> 00:51:18,776
and Gary Propper's manager
and Kim Dawson
1037
00:51:18,809 --> 00:51:21,679
used to direct Gallagher's
Showtime specials.
1038
00:51:21,712 --> 00:51:26,384
Kim was a pretty experienced
director of those shows
1039
00:51:26,417 --> 00:51:28,986
and knew a lot
about television,
1040
00:51:29,019 --> 00:51:31,856
but didn't really
have a lot of
1041
00:51:31,889 --> 00:51:34,058
influence or friends
directly
1042
00:51:34,091 --> 00:51:35,826
in the motion picture
industries.
1043
00:51:35,860 --> 00:51:38,596
Listen, Golden Harvest is
so right for this
1044
00:51:38,629 --> 00:51:41,832
because Golden Harvest
did the Jackie Chan,
Bruce Lee films.
1045
00:51:41,866 --> 00:51:43,434
And they had
the best martial art guys
1046
00:51:43,468 --> 00:51:45,035
in the world,
which everybody knows.
1047
00:51:45,069 --> 00:51:47,705
And I went to
Tom Gray, my boss,
1048
00:51:47,738 --> 00:51:49,740
who looked at me
like I was smoking dope.
1049
00:51:49,774 --> 00:51:53,811
I said, "Bobby, I'm not even
interested in that title."
1050
00:51:53,844 --> 00:51:56,547
You know, "Why would I
even be interested in that?"
1051
00:51:56,581 --> 00:51:59,284
And he said, "Well,
it's gonna be big!"
1052
00:51:59,317 --> 00:52:02,320
I went, wallpapered
Hollywood for,
1053
00:52:02,353 --> 00:52:04,021
off and on,
three months
1054
00:52:04,054 --> 00:52:05,590
pitching it to everybody,
1055
00:52:05,623 --> 00:52:08,693
who also thought
I was on massive
doses of drugs.
1056
00:52:08,726 --> 00:52:11,929
I'd go in and pitch it,
and they'd go, "Turtles?"
1057
00:52:11,962 --> 00:52:14,999
GRAY: He said, "Well,
would you do me a favor
and have a meeting with Kim,
1058
00:52:15,032 --> 00:52:17,602
"at least tell Kim
why you don't want
to do it and whatever."
1059
00:52:17,635 --> 00:52:20,571
And I was more
interested in the food
1060
00:52:20,605 --> 00:52:24,141
than I was in listening to
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
1061
00:52:24,175 --> 00:52:26,043
As I was pushing
out of the booth,
1062
00:52:26,076 --> 00:52:28,045
I took one of
the magazines,
1063
00:52:28,078 --> 00:52:30,248
and I looked at it
and I had an epiphany.
1064
00:52:30,281 --> 00:52:32,550
I suddenly got it.
I said, "Wait a minute,
1065
00:52:33,584 --> 00:52:37,388
"this is nothing more than
our Chinese stuntmen.
1066
00:52:37,422 --> 00:52:40,157
"We're the best kung fu
makers in the world.
1067
00:52:40,191 --> 00:52:43,561
"We put four of our
best stuntmen in suits
1068
00:52:43,594 --> 00:52:46,130
"and we shoot
this in Hong Kong,
1069
00:52:46,163 --> 00:52:48,366
"we can make
a movie like this!"
1070
00:52:48,399 --> 00:52:51,402
We talked about
doing a live action movie
1071
00:52:51,436 --> 00:52:54,839
using animatronic
Turtle figures.
1072
00:52:54,872 --> 00:52:57,708
I remember talking on the
telephone with Raymond Chow,
1073
00:52:57,742 --> 00:52:59,810
and he said, "What do
you think you could make
the movie for?"
1074
00:52:59,844 --> 00:53:01,912
And I said, "I think
we can probably do it
1075
00:53:01,946 --> 00:53:03,548
"around two and a half,
three million
1076
00:53:03,581 --> 00:53:06,984
"if we do all of it in
Hong Kong at the studios."
1077
00:53:07,017 --> 00:53:09,520
The initial writer
they brought us,
1078
00:53:09,554 --> 00:53:11,622
Peter and I
completely freaked out.
1079
00:53:11,656 --> 00:53:13,491
Trying to figure out
how are we gonna get this
1080
00:53:13,524 --> 00:53:15,693
stereotypical
Hollywood kind of guy
1081
00:53:15,726 --> 00:53:19,096
to understand our characters
and the importance
1082
00:53:19,129 --> 00:53:20,831
because a lot of pressure
was on us now.
1083
00:53:20,865 --> 00:53:22,867
Fortunately, Golden Harvest
hired this director,
1084
00:53:22,900 --> 00:53:24,302
his name was Steve Barron.
1085
00:53:24,335 --> 00:53:28,439
I had seen a reel
that he did with
Michael Jackson and a-ha,
1086
00:53:28,473 --> 00:53:29,940
and I knew he was
working rotoscopes
1087
00:53:29,974 --> 00:53:31,576
and all these
kind of techniques,
1088
00:53:31,609 --> 00:53:33,878
and I really liked
what he was about.
1089
00:53:33,911 --> 00:53:36,180
BARRON: Golden Harvest
had had a script written
1090
00:53:36,213 --> 00:53:38,483
and they'd come away from
1091
00:53:38,516 --> 00:53:40,951
the original material,
which a lot of movies do.
1092
00:53:40,985 --> 00:53:42,320
They come away
from the book
1093
00:53:42,353 --> 00:53:44,889
and they think
because it's a film,
1094
00:53:44,922 --> 00:53:49,226
you've gotta come up
with the scenes that
work in film, so called.
1095
00:53:49,260 --> 00:53:52,162
And I felt that a lot of
these scenes that were
in the comic books,
1096
00:53:52,196 --> 00:53:55,232
the original few
book volumes
1097
00:53:55,266 --> 00:53:57,067
were great movie scenes.
1098
00:53:57,101 --> 00:53:59,904
We had discovered
a young writer
1099
00:53:59,937 --> 00:54:02,673
who was writing
for Wonder Years,
called Todd Langen.
1100
00:54:02,707 --> 00:54:05,710
BARRON: So, I brought him in
and we actually sat in L.A.
1101
00:54:05,743 --> 00:54:08,979
at the Mondrian Hotel
for two months,
1102
00:54:09,013 --> 00:54:13,250
and we locked the door,
and I had all the comic books,
1103
00:54:13,284 --> 00:54:16,454
and I ripped out
all the pages that I just
felt were movie scenes.
1104
00:54:19,857 --> 00:54:21,826
It was gonna take
six months to prepare
1105
00:54:22,993 --> 00:54:26,230
all of those uniforms,
the props,
1106
00:54:26,263 --> 00:54:29,400
everything ready
to shoot on time
in July,
1107
00:54:29,434 --> 00:54:32,470
and I didn't have the money,
so I gambled.
1108
00:54:32,503 --> 00:54:35,440
I was emotionally committed,
but I didn't have the guts
1109
00:54:35,473 --> 00:54:38,543
to go back and say,
"I think this is not three,
1110
00:54:38,576 --> 00:54:41,846
"it's looking more
like seven or eight."
1111
00:54:44,815 --> 00:54:48,719
These are the original
1112
00:54:48,753 --> 00:54:52,557
ideas for that sewer,
which actually...
1113
00:54:52,590 --> 00:54:56,761
When I finally talked it over
with the director
1114
00:54:56,794 --> 00:54:59,364
and producer,
they didn't change very much.
1115
00:55:00,831 --> 00:55:04,168
Well, texture gives you
atmosphere,
1116
00:55:04,201 --> 00:55:09,306
especially this
disused pumping station
down in the sewers,
1117
00:55:09,340 --> 00:55:12,209
which was their home.
1118
00:55:12,242 --> 00:55:17,014
And the very first sketch
I did of their home
was this one.
1119
00:55:17,047 --> 00:55:20,551
They collect stuff
that comes down the tunnel,
1120
00:55:20,585 --> 00:55:25,055
they wander about
finding all kinds of
interesting things.
1121
00:55:25,089 --> 00:55:27,858
So, it was
creating an environment,
1122
00:55:27,892 --> 00:55:30,027
because there was
a big battle in the sewer,
1123
00:55:30,060 --> 00:55:31,862
and they lived
in the sewer
1124
00:55:31,896 --> 00:55:34,965
and so much of the action
happened there.
1125
00:55:34,999 --> 00:55:39,604
We built all this
out of fiberglass to
stand up to the stresses
1126
00:55:39,637 --> 00:55:42,640
and had actual water
pumping through it.
1127
00:55:45,309 --> 00:55:47,712
We really lucked out
on that first movie
1128
00:55:49,547 --> 00:55:51,416
for two main reasons,
1129
00:55:51,449 --> 00:55:54,284
Steve Barron, the director,
and Jim Henson.
1130
00:55:54,318 --> 00:55:57,588
Steve Barron,
very creative guy,
1131
00:55:57,622 --> 00:55:59,223
had a real good vision,
1132
00:55:59,256 --> 00:56:02,593
solid idea of
what he wanted to do
1133
00:56:02,627 --> 00:56:05,830
within the fairly limited
budget he had to work with.
1134
00:56:05,863 --> 00:56:09,834
And Jim Henson,
fantastic talent.
1135
00:56:09,867 --> 00:56:13,871
We really got lucky
to be able to get him
to do the creatures,
1136
00:56:13,904 --> 00:56:15,005
and he nearly
didn't do it,
1137
00:56:15,039 --> 00:56:16,741
because he was really
not happy with,
1138
00:56:16,774 --> 00:56:20,344
early on,
the violence in it,
1139
00:56:20,377 --> 00:56:23,748
in relation to his Muppets
and his fan base.
1140
00:56:23,781 --> 00:56:27,317
It was something very risky
for him to put his name to.
1141
00:56:27,351 --> 00:56:31,221
He'd had not a lot of
contact with the film,
1142
00:56:31,255 --> 00:56:33,123
although he and
Steve Barron were
good friends,
1143
00:56:34,224 --> 00:56:37,094
and obviously he and I were
father and son,
1144
00:56:37,127 --> 00:56:41,298
so he stayed in touch
with the film in a large way.
1145
00:56:41,331 --> 00:56:43,133
At one point,
he was concerned that
1146
00:56:43,167 --> 00:56:45,536
there wasn't enough money
to finish the film,
1147
00:56:45,570 --> 00:56:47,672
and I think he was trying
to help with that,
1148
00:56:47,705 --> 00:56:50,307
because it was
made on a very low budget.
1149
00:56:50,340 --> 00:56:51,942
I started having
second thoughts
1150
00:56:51,976 --> 00:56:53,744
about doing it as
a Hong Kong movie,
1151
00:56:53,778 --> 00:56:57,414
but I was somewhat afraid
to go back to Hong Kong
1152
00:56:57,448 --> 00:56:59,450
and tell them that
I needed more money.
1153
00:56:59,484 --> 00:57:00,885
Playmates were
telling me that
1154
00:57:00,918 --> 00:57:03,153
Christmas was gonna be
huge for the toys in '89,
1155
00:57:04,421 --> 00:57:07,057
and so I felt confident
that I'll sell the film.
1156
00:57:07,091 --> 00:57:09,259
I just took a risk,
I took a gamble.
1157
00:57:09,293 --> 00:57:13,163
And then I went
to the marketplace
and I got killed!
1158
00:57:14,298 --> 00:57:16,366
Nobody wanted the movie.
1159
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,637
At the same time
we'd been seeing all
the design concepts
1160
00:57:19,670 --> 00:57:22,272
that Jim Henson's
Creature Shop had been
doing in London.
1161
00:57:22,306 --> 00:57:25,710
Building, sculpting
the heads and the bodies
of the costumes,
1162
00:57:25,743 --> 00:57:29,980
and sending us
video tapes of the tests
of the people wearing them.
1163
00:57:30,014 --> 00:57:33,918
BARRON: There was also
a thing where we needed
to test quite a lot of
1164
00:57:34,919 --> 00:57:39,023
stages of the
Turtles in London.
1165
00:57:39,056 --> 00:57:42,026
So, we thought we'd get
one guy from London,
1166
00:57:42,059 --> 00:57:45,763
and so we could
constantly use him
to test the first prototype.
1167
00:57:45,796 --> 00:57:48,065
So, I had maybe
180 grand in cash
1168
00:57:49,634 --> 00:57:51,502
and I got
an $8 million budget,
1169
00:57:51,536 --> 00:57:53,437
pay or play with Henson.
1170
00:57:53,470 --> 00:57:55,540
And the deal that
I thought I had
1171
00:57:55,573 --> 00:57:56,874
that would have
saved all of this
1172
00:57:56,907 --> 00:57:58,408
has just died.
1173
00:57:58,442 --> 00:58:00,545
I said, "Raymond,
I need $6 million."
1174
00:58:01,912 --> 00:58:04,849
He said, "Tom,
we don't have $6 million!"
1175
00:58:04,882 --> 00:58:07,818
"I don't know if
we'll make money,
but I'm so convinced
1176
00:58:08,953 --> 00:58:11,388
"that if you give me
the money, we'll open
1177
00:58:11,421 --> 00:58:12,957
"and we'll get
our investment back.
1178
00:58:12,990 --> 00:58:14,291
"At least that."
1179
00:58:14,324 --> 00:58:17,494
And it was a pause
and he said, "Okay,
1180
00:58:19,163 --> 00:58:20,665
"I'll go find it."
1181
00:58:20,698 --> 00:58:22,833
Okay, so now what?
1182
00:58:23,601 --> 00:58:26,170
Now what? Now what?
1183
00:58:26,203 --> 00:58:28,539
The first thing was
1184
00:58:28,573 --> 00:58:31,542
we needed the main,
the principal Turtles
1185
00:58:31,576 --> 00:58:35,846
and the characters to be
cast who were gonna be
inside the suits.
1186
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,984
SISTI: So, I went
and I did what I call my
Full Tilt Bozo performance.
1187
00:58:40,017 --> 00:58:42,920
Spinning around
and jumping around
and doing my lines.
1188
00:58:42,953 --> 00:58:44,855
And then I finished
with a big flourish
and a roundhouse kick
1189
00:58:44,889 --> 00:58:45,990
and put my foot
through the wall.
1190
00:58:46,991 --> 00:58:50,160
So, there I was with
my foot stuck in the wall,
1191
00:58:50,194 --> 00:58:52,062
and thank God he laughed
1192
00:58:52,096 --> 00:58:54,665
and he said, "Anyone
who would put that much
energy into the performance
1193
00:58:54,699 --> 00:58:56,366
"deserves to be
one of my Turtles."
1194
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:58,102
And he asked me
to be Michelangelo.
1195
00:58:58,135 --> 00:59:01,538
It was a very sweet,
lovely script and silly,
1196
00:59:01,572 --> 00:59:03,674
and I'm silly,
1197
00:59:03,708 --> 00:59:06,577
and working with turtles,
like, why not?
1198
00:59:06,611 --> 00:59:09,446
Seemed like a good idea
and I was up for it.
1199
00:59:09,479 --> 00:59:13,684
And anything
that's got Jim Henson's
name attached to it.
1200
00:59:14,952 --> 00:59:17,487
Went in,
I actually met Steve Barron,
1201
00:59:17,521 --> 00:59:19,990
the director,
the first audition
1202
00:59:20,024 --> 00:59:22,159
and, from what I remember,
maybe the only audition.
1203
00:59:22,192 --> 00:59:24,028
It was one of
the easiest experiences.
1204
00:59:24,061 --> 00:59:26,330
And we just
talked about punk rock
1205
00:59:26,363 --> 00:59:29,967
and the Sex Pistols
and things like that,
and I got it.
1206
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:33,871
And I got to wear
Sid Vicious T-shirts
throughout the whole thing,
1207
00:59:33,904 --> 00:59:35,840
so I was really
into that at that time.
1208
00:59:35,873 --> 00:59:37,675
MAN: Thirty-six,
take seven.
1209
00:59:37,708 --> 00:59:40,344
BARRON:
Ready, and action!
1210
00:59:40,377 --> 00:59:42,312
MAN: We were
awesome, bros!
1211
00:59:42,346 --> 00:59:44,514
So, I was the
puppeteer captain,
1212
00:59:44,548 --> 00:59:49,053
and then once the film
started shooting...
1213
00:59:49,086 --> 00:59:50,888
So, I had to find
the performers
1214
00:59:50,921 --> 00:59:53,924
and develop the hand controls
with everybody,
1215
00:59:53,958 --> 00:59:57,161
and then once
the film started shooting,
1216
00:59:57,194 --> 01:00:00,130
I handed that function
over to Kevin Clash.
1217
01:00:00,164 --> 01:00:02,566
CLASH: I had
another role with Ninja
1218
01:00:02,599 --> 01:00:05,269
where I was kind of
the puppet captain
for the movie.
1219
01:00:05,302 --> 01:00:10,240
So, I was the one who had to
go to Steve and say, "Listen,
1220
01:00:10,274 --> 01:00:12,977
"Raphael's not gonna work,
his head is not working,
1221
01:00:14,779 --> 01:00:17,648
"and we have no idea when
it's gonna be up and running."
1222
01:00:17,682 --> 01:00:19,784
And they would
lose their mind.
1223
01:00:19,817 --> 01:00:22,586
HENSON: With Steve Barron,
who started talking
to me about
1224
01:00:22,619 --> 01:00:24,354
how we could
do these Turtles,
1225
01:00:25,923 --> 01:00:28,292
it was really important
to him that, if possible,
1226
01:00:28,325 --> 01:00:30,795
there was no wires
going to the characters,
1227
01:00:30,828 --> 01:00:33,330
no cables going
to the characters.
1228
01:00:33,363 --> 01:00:35,565
I even remember
we had a test sheet
1229
01:00:35,599 --> 01:00:39,269
that showed the character
had to be able to do
a forward handspring
1230
01:00:39,303 --> 01:00:42,639
then a flip and then drop
through a manhole cover,
1231
01:00:42,673 --> 01:00:44,809
was what his litmus was.
1232
01:00:44,842 --> 01:00:46,911
He wanted it to be
able to do that move
1233
01:00:46,944 --> 01:00:48,946
and still also be
an animated character.
1234
01:00:48,979 --> 01:00:51,849
They were seriously
challenged in those suits.
1235
01:00:51,882 --> 01:00:55,219
There were times where
1236
01:00:55,252 --> 01:00:58,222
you would have to
rip a head off and
give them some oxygen.
1237
01:00:58,255 --> 01:01:01,358
I really felt like,
"I better do my job fast
1238
01:01:01,391 --> 01:01:04,261
"because this guy's gotta
get that suit off now!"
1239
01:01:04,294 --> 01:01:06,731
CLASH: I remember
Leif getting sick inside
one of the heads,
1240
01:01:06,764 --> 01:01:08,165
which was very interesting.
1241
01:01:08,198 --> 01:01:10,267
It was like, "I'm gonna be..."
And it was too late.
1242
01:01:11,902 --> 01:01:14,204
SISTI: The whole rig
weighed about 70 pounds.
1243
01:01:14,238 --> 01:01:16,774
So, between that
and the fact that
we were suddenly
1244
01:01:16,807 --> 01:01:19,209
thrown into the midst
of these things where you
could only see out of
1245
01:01:19,243 --> 01:01:21,946
two little tiny holes
in the front of the head,
1246
01:01:21,979 --> 01:01:23,147
it got a little
hairy at times.
1247
01:01:23,180 --> 01:01:25,482
It was very difficult
to get out of their suits.
1248
01:01:25,515 --> 01:01:28,485
They had... All of
the cables and everything
1249
01:01:28,518 --> 01:01:30,620
went down the back
of their necks.
1250
01:01:30,654 --> 01:01:32,656
So, they would be able
to take the head off,
1251
01:01:32,689 --> 01:01:34,058
but they couldn't
take it totally off,
1252
01:01:34,091 --> 01:01:35,692
they would have to
put it off to the side.
1253
01:01:35,726 --> 01:01:37,728
And all of the servos
and all the mechanisms
1254
01:01:37,762 --> 01:01:39,897
were actually
inside of the back
of the shell.
1255
01:01:39,930 --> 01:01:42,599
BARRON: Then we built
these wooden horses
1256
01:01:42,632 --> 01:01:45,169
that we'd put
around the set.
1257
01:01:45,202 --> 01:01:49,173
So that the best way
to rest this 65 pounds
on your back
1258
01:01:49,206 --> 01:01:52,777
was to lean forward
in a certain position,
which they sort of...
1259
01:01:54,078 --> 01:01:56,781
They found that position,
built these wooden horses
1260
01:01:56,814 --> 01:01:59,049
and so they'd sit
on them on the set.
1261
01:01:59,083 --> 01:02:03,988
So, 11:00 at night
in South Carolina
somewhere,
1262
01:02:04,021 --> 01:02:07,758
and these four
turtles would be
dead on these horses
1263
01:02:07,792 --> 01:02:08,959
in the middle
of the fields,
1264
01:02:08,993 --> 01:02:11,896
and it was
a very eerie image.
1265
01:02:11,929 --> 01:02:15,032
Any times that there were
any kind of animatronics
1266
01:02:15,065 --> 01:02:17,968
where there was any
dialogue going on,
1267
01:02:18,002 --> 01:02:20,905
you'd have the hero suits,
1268
01:02:20,938 --> 01:02:22,306
and they would be
doing their thing.
1269
01:02:22,339 --> 01:02:25,810
And then anytime that
there was any kind of
fight sequence,
1270
01:02:25,843 --> 01:02:27,377
then that's when
we would step in.
1271
01:02:28,879 --> 01:02:31,115
HENSON: Initially,
nobody was sure
1272
01:02:31,148 --> 01:02:33,183
what the second unit
was gonna shoot.
1273
01:02:33,217 --> 01:02:36,386
Steve thought he wanted to
just give me some sequences,
1274
01:02:36,420 --> 01:02:37,888
like flashback sequences,
1275
01:02:37,922 --> 01:02:39,957
to just let me shoot
and have fun with.
1276
01:02:39,990 --> 01:02:43,560
Then he found he had
to shoot the drama,
1277
01:02:43,593 --> 01:02:48,332
and couldn't shoot
the fights often,
to stay on schedule.
1278
01:02:48,365 --> 01:02:50,134
So then I had
to start shooting
fight sequences,
1279
01:02:50,167 --> 01:02:51,768
which was
a lot of fun for me,
1280
01:02:51,802 --> 01:02:54,604
which was not at all
what I was expecting
going in. (LAUGHS)
1281
01:02:54,638 --> 01:02:56,240
Although I had
been involved
1282
01:02:56,273 --> 01:02:58,242
with the creation
of the characters right
from the beginning
1283
01:02:58,275 --> 01:03:00,177
and knew they had
to be able to fight.
1284
01:03:00,210 --> 01:03:02,312
So I had been
working with stuntmen
1285
01:03:02,346 --> 01:03:04,181
all the way through
the preparation of the film.
1286
01:03:04,214 --> 01:03:07,551
Normal film speed
is 24 frames a second,
1287
01:03:07,584 --> 01:03:10,821
and the Turtles
were cumbersome
and a bit slow,
1288
01:03:10,855 --> 01:03:14,224
and I wanted to have them
1289
01:03:15,492 --> 01:03:18,095
believably able to
use those muscles.
1290
01:03:18,128 --> 01:03:20,564
So, we shot a lot of it
at 23 frames per second,
1291
01:03:20,597 --> 01:03:21,832
even the dialogue stuff,
1292
01:03:21,866 --> 01:03:23,100
which was
kind of unusual.
1293
01:03:23,133 --> 01:03:25,335
I don't think it had
been done before.
1294
01:03:25,369 --> 01:03:28,338
And that would just...
Only one twenty-fourth
of a second,
1295
01:03:28,372 --> 01:03:30,707
but it would just sharpen up
their movements a little bit.
1296
01:03:30,740 --> 01:03:32,342
So, when you'd
see them on set,
1297
01:03:32,376 --> 01:03:34,511
they'd be a tiny
bit slower than when
we got them on film.
1298
01:03:36,180 --> 01:03:38,748
And then we'd use 22
and 23 for the ninja fights,
1299
01:03:38,782 --> 01:03:41,218
which is very common
in Hong Kong, anyway.
1300
01:03:41,251 --> 01:03:43,287
I tell you, the technology
was a challenge.
1301
01:03:44,821 --> 01:03:46,590
When you talk to
some of the puppeteers
1302
01:03:46,623 --> 01:03:49,059
who actually had to program
those heads of those Turtles,
1303
01:03:51,195 --> 01:03:54,298
they would
program all of these
different expressions
1304
01:03:54,331 --> 01:03:57,067
and different things
they would want the
Turtles to do,
1305
01:03:57,101 --> 01:03:59,269
and the next morning,
everything would have
crashed
1306
01:03:59,303 --> 01:04:01,071
and they would have to
start all over again.
1307
01:04:01,105 --> 01:04:02,472
It was very frustrating,
1308
01:04:02,506 --> 01:04:04,508
because it was very
primitive at the time.
1309
01:04:04,541 --> 01:04:07,211
We were shooting very close
to the Wilmington airport,
1310
01:04:07,244 --> 01:04:09,113
and every time
the guys set up for a shot,
1311
01:04:09,146 --> 01:04:10,480
the Turtles wouldn't react
1312
01:04:10,514 --> 01:04:12,182
or they would react
when we're not ready,
1313
01:04:12,216 --> 01:04:14,051
and we suddenly
figured out
1314
01:04:14,084 --> 01:04:16,053
that the interference
from the radar...
1315
01:04:17,487 --> 01:04:20,324
We had to go on
a military frequency
1316
01:04:20,357 --> 01:04:21,558
because
the commercial frequency
1317
01:04:21,591 --> 01:04:23,593
was too close to
our own frequency
1318
01:04:23,627 --> 01:04:25,729
for the radio waves.
1319
01:04:25,762 --> 01:04:28,132
We had to figure out
all these things going on.
1320
01:04:28,165 --> 01:04:31,768
HOAG: We used to have
something we called Major
Turtle Breakdown, MTB.
1321
01:04:31,801 --> 01:04:33,737
Sometimes you'd
see a Turtle,
1322
01:04:33,770 --> 01:04:35,605
suddenly a jaw
would drop
1323
01:04:35,639 --> 01:04:37,975
or an eyeball would go off
in a weird direction,
1324
01:04:38,008 --> 01:04:39,276
and something
would happen,
1325
01:04:39,309 --> 01:04:41,011
so you wouldn't
have them there.
1326
01:04:41,045 --> 01:04:44,114
So, I got used to working
with, if necessary,
1327
01:04:44,148 --> 01:04:46,917
a paper plate on
a C-stand or nobody.
1328
01:04:46,951 --> 01:04:48,385
Where's Raphael?
1329
01:04:50,587 --> 01:04:52,622
Hmm?
MAN: Cut it.
1330
01:04:52,656 --> 01:04:55,625
Then they would always say,
"Okay, we'll shoot the rat."
1331
01:04:55,659 --> 01:04:56,994
Because the rat
was hardwired,
1332
01:04:57,027 --> 01:04:59,129
it wasn't fully
radio-controlled.
1333
01:05:00,564 --> 01:05:03,100
Um, I'd like to do
that again, if I could.
1334
01:05:04,401 --> 01:05:07,637
The truth is Splinter took
a close-up much easier
1335
01:05:07,671 --> 01:05:11,208
because we weren't
trying to hide a person
inside of Splinter.
1336
01:05:11,241 --> 01:05:13,210
Splinter was
a hand puppet,
1337
01:05:13,243 --> 01:05:15,212
so all the interior of
the mouth was really there.
1338
01:05:15,245 --> 01:05:18,448
The Turtles were tough
because the actors inside
1339
01:05:18,482 --> 01:05:23,087
were looking through
holes in the actual head.
1340
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:26,756
If the mouth was open,
they could see a little bit
through the mouth,
1341
01:05:26,790 --> 01:05:29,326
but the truth is
if you put a lot of
lights on,
1342
01:05:29,359 --> 01:05:31,228
the camera would be
able to see right inside
1343
01:05:31,261 --> 01:05:34,198
and see that there was
a person in there.
1344
01:05:34,231 --> 01:05:36,266
When I was a kid,
I watched very
dark fairy tales
1345
01:05:36,300 --> 01:05:39,503
and read dark
Grimm's Tales,
1346
01:05:39,536 --> 01:05:43,974
and even though
you'd find them
a bit spooky,
1347
01:05:44,008 --> 01:05:48,578
that was the
most exciting thing
and engaging stuff.
1348
01:05:48,612 --> 01:05:51,748
HENSON: That was
a controversial decision,
to say the least,
1349
01:05:51,781 --> 01:05:54,084
in the making of the film.
1350
01:05:54,118 --> 01:05:57,554
I think there was
a lot of concern
from the studio
1351
01:05:58,455 --> 01:06:01,258
about how dark
the film was.
1352
01:06:01,891 --> 01:06:03,227
CLASH: Steve had
1353
01:06:05,462 --> 01:06:07,631
unbelievable vision
for this movie,
1354
01:06:07,664 --> 01:06:10,234
I mean, unbelievable.
1355
01:06:10,267 --> 01:06:13,370
He really didn't want
anybody to really
"see them" see them.
1356
01:06:14,771 --> 01:06:17,041
That was a whole
thing at the beginning,
as far as
1357
01:06:18,642 --> 01:06:22,112
not letting the audience,
but teasing the audience.
1358
01:06:22,146 --> 01:06:24,114
He really made you
feel like you were
1359
01:06:24,148 --> 01:06:26,050
in a sewer with
these four turtles.
1360
01:06:32,322 --> 01:06:34,391
OFFICER: You
all right, ma'am?
APRIL: Yeah, I'm fine.
1361
01:06:34,424 --> 01:06:37,061
In hindsight, I know
that was the right decision,
1362
01:06:37,094 --> 01:06:40,264
that Steve thought,
"I'm gonna keep
the film moody
1363
01:06:40,297 --> 01:06:42,966
"and contrasty and dark,
1364
01:06:42,999 --> 01:06:44,568
"and that's gonna
help me to allow
1365
01:06:44,601 --> 01:06:46,836
"the cameras to get
a little bit closer."
1366
01:06:46,870 --> 01:06:49,606
I felt, "Let's just
really try
1367
01:06:49,639 --> 01:06:51,175
"and get into these eyes
of these creatures."
1368
01:06:51,208 --> 01:06:52,642
Even though
they weren't real,
1369
01:06:52,676 --> 01:06:55,045
and even though everybody
was worried about that.
1370
01:06:55,079 --> 01:06:57,514
There's a big scene
with Splinter and Raphael,
1371
01:06:57,547 --> 01:06:59,649
and it moves from
one to the other,
1372
01:06:59,683 --> 01:07:02,252
and nobody had been
that close to an animatronic
1373
01:07:02,286 --> 01:07:04,621
in animatronic history,
I don't think.
1374
01:07:06,356 --> 01:07:08,625
I am here.
1375
01:07:09,926 --> 01:07:11,428
My son.
1376
01:07:11,461 --> 01:07:16,566
The darkness gave the film
a gritty credibility
1377
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:19,569
that I think is
the difference between
it making $20 million
1378
01:07:19,603 --> 01:07:22,306
and it making way
over $100 million,
1379
01:07:22,339 --> 01:07:24,241
and in the end, God knows,
$500 million.
1380
01:07:24,274 --> 01:07:26,476
It was fortunate that,
1381
01:07:26,510 --> 01:07:29,279
I think most of the guys
at the studio here,
1382
01:07:29,313 --> 01:07:32,082
Jim Lawson, Steve Lavigne,
and Ryan Brown,
1383
01:07:32,116 --> 01:07:34,351
Mike Dooney, Eric Talbot,
1384
01:07:34,384 --> 01:07:36,186
were all able to
go down to the set,
1385
01:07:36,220 --> 01:07:38,188
because it was
in North Carolina
1386
01:07:38,222 --> 01:07:40,290
at the old Carolco studios.
1387
01:07:42,692 --> 01:07:45,529
And we were all
able to walk around
on their backlot,
1388
01:07:45,562 --> 01:07:47,997
where most of
the street scenes
were filmed.
1389
01:07:48,031 --> 01:07:50,066
It was a trip. (LAUGHS)
1390
01:07:50,100 --> 01:07:53,337
I don't think any of us
had ever been on
a movie set before.
1391
01:07:53,370 --> 01:07:57,073
There, 20 yards away,
20 feet away,
1392
01:07:57,107 --> 01:07:59,543
was some of the Turtles
in full costume,
1393
01:07:59,576 --> 01:08:00,944
in the stunt costumes,
1394
01:08:00,977 --> 01:08:03,247
playing around,
one was playing around
with a Mexican hat.
1395
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:06,483
And it really...
You froze dead
in your tracks
1396
01:08:06,516 --> 01:08:09,753
because it was night,
it was live,
1397
01:08:09,786 --> 01:08:12,356
and it was
a real Ninja Turtle,
you believed.
1398
01:08:12,389 --> 01:08:14,424
It's like, "There they are
and they're alive
and they're real.
1399
01:08:16,893 --> 01:08:19,229
"This is amazing.
This is amazing
on every possible level."
1400
01:08:19,263 --> 01:08:21,965
It was virtually stunning.
1401
01:08:21,998 --> 01:08:24,434
(INDISTINCT TALKING)
1402
01:08:25,735 --> 01:08:28,272
It's a very
exciting moment in history.
1403
01:08:28,305 --> 01:08:29,306
Hopefully
history's in the making.
1404
01:08:31,941 --> 01:08:33,710
LAIRD: All right,
show them the production.
1405
01:08:39,649 --> 01:08:42,952
It's like they
reached into my brain
and Kevin's brain
1406
01:08:42,986 --> 01:08:45,389
and pulled out what
we felt these Turtles
should look like,
1407
01:08:45,422 --> 01:08:47,090
and then they did it.
1408
01:08:47,123 --> 01:08:50,126
In foam, latex
and acrylic paint
1409
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:51,495
and bits of leather.
1410
01:08:52,829 --> 01:08:54,164
They just did it.
1411
01:08:54,198 --> 01:08:57,601
Steve Barron, I think,
just because he
wanted to be nice
1412
01:08:57,634 --> 01:09:00,237
or maybe he thought
we would be great
in the parts,
1413
01:09:01,738 --> 01:09:05,242
asked Kevin and me
if we would like to be
1414
01:09:05,275 --> 01:09:07,911
in the background of a scene
as garbage men.
1415
01:09:07,944 --> 01:09:11,080
And I'm not really
comfortable with doing
those kinds of things,
1416
01:09:11,114 --> 01:09:12,882
so I said,
"Thanks, but no."
1417
01:09:12,916 --> 01:09:14,484
But Kevin was up for it.
1418
01:09:14,518 --> 01:09:16,853
I seem to recall
that at a certain point,
1419
01:09:16,886 --> 01:09:20,123
you can kind of see
this blurry dark shape
1420
01:09:20,156 --> 01:09:22,859
moving across the screen
behind one of the Turtles
1421
01:09:22,892 --> 01:09:25,229
way off in the distance,
and I think that's Kevin.
1422
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:33,870
FREEDMAN: When you see
a film being shot,
1423
01:09:33,903 --> 01:09:36,139
you only see
little snippets,
1424
01:09:36,172 --> 01:09:39,075
you see some dailies,
just short segments,
1425
01:09:39,108 --> 01:09:42,479
you don't see
the vision of the filmmaker
put together on film,
1426
01:09:42,512 --> 01:09:44,314
so it's very,
very hard to judge.
1427
01:09:44,348 --> 01:09:46,950
Now the film is together
1428
01:09:46,983 --> 01:09:50,254
and Tom Gray calls me
and says, "I want
to show you the film."
1429
01:09:50,287 --> 01:09:54,391
It was Tom Gray,
it was myself,
Mark Freedman,
1430
01:09:54,424 --> 01:09:56,760
Peter Laird,
Kevin Eastman,
1431
01:09:56,793 --> 01:09:59,596
there may have been one
or two other people
from Mirage Studios,
1432
01:09:59,629 --> 01:10:01,698
and we're in
a theater without children,
1433
01:10:01,731 --> 01:10:04,668
and we see the film
with no audience reaction,
1434
01:10:06,202 --> 01:10:09,172
and we start to shake,
we get scared.
1435
01:10:09,205 --> 01:10:12,542
We're not sure if we like it,
we're not sure if it's good,
1436
01:10:12,576 --> 01:10:15,111
we start doubting ourselves,
we start thinking about it,
1437
01:10:15,144 --> 01:10:16,780
second guessing, you name it.
1438
01:10:17,947 --> 01:10:18,748
We're scared.
1439
01:10:19,983 --> 01:10:21,685
(GONG STRIKING)
1440
01:10:32,496 --> 01:10:34,398
People were cheering
this trailer.
1441
01:10:34,431 --> 01:10:38,702
And these weren't necessarily
little kids as well.
1442
01:10:38,735 --> 01:10:41,738
They were just
people who thought
this looked great.
1443
01:10:46,242 --> 01:10:47,644
We get to the
movie theater
1444
01:10:47,677 --> 01:10:50,347
about 45 minutes
before the first showing
1445
01:10:50,380 --> 01:10:53,817
on a Friday night
in March of 1990,
1446
01:10:54,584 --> 01:10:56,486
and we're
first on line,
1447
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:59,589
I looked behind me
and I don't see anybody.
1448
01:10:59,623 --> 01:11:01,358
I said, "Well,
isn't that special?"
1449
01:11:01,391 --> 01:11:04,160
And within 15 minutes,
1450
01:11:04,193 --> 01:11:07,263
people show up
and the line grows
1451
01:11:07,297 --> 01:11:09,599
out the movie theater,
around the block.
1452
01:11:12,636 --> 01:11:13,870
Ya!
1453
01:11:13,903 --> 01:11:16,373
I love being a turtle!
1454
01:11:16,406 --> 01:11:18,608
FREEDMAN:
When the credits rolled
1455
01:11:18,642 --> 01:11:23,980
and the audience erupted
in applause and cheers,
1456
01:11:24,013 --> 01:11:27,384
I think I grabbed
onto my wife Renee
and I said,
1457
01:11:27,417 --> 01:11:30,554
"I'm not sure what this is,
but it sure feels good."
1458
01:11:30,587 --> 01:11:34,290
We opened at 25 million,
or 26 million.
1459
01:11:35,091 --> 01:11:37,026
Broke all single records,
1460
01:11:37,060 --> 01:11:38,695
non-holiday playing time,
1461
01:11:38,728 --> 01:11:40,764
in the history
of the business.
1462
01:11:40,797 --> 01:11:43,467
That Monday morning
after we opened
on the record week,
1463
01:11:43,500 --> 01:11:47,671
every single studio guy
that had seen the film
1464
01:11:47,704 --> 01:11:51,107
and passed on it
in the year and
a half prior to that
1465
01:11:51,140 --> 01:11:55,579
called me, all wishing me
congratulations, everything.
1466
01:11:55,612 --> 01:11:59,048
"I wish we had seen it.
God, how did you know?"
1467
01:11:59,082 --> 01:12:02,419
All that and, "Oh,
by the way, can we
have the sequel?"
1468
01:12:02,452 --> 01:12:04,521
And I said, "Fellas,
1469
01:12:04,554 --> 01:12:06,690
"the sequel stays
with the believers
1470
01:12:06,723 --> 01:12:07,791
"and that's
New Line Cinema."
1471
01:12:08,157 --> 01:12:09,292
Huh?
1472
01:12:09,325 --> 01:12:12,095
ALL: Cowabunga!
1473
01:12:13,296 --> 01:12:16,700
I went out to dinner
with Jim after that
1474
01:12:16,733 --> 01:12:19,636
and we drove past
a movie theater,
1475
01:12:19,669 --> 01:12:24,741
and there were lines of kids
with the whole outfits on.
1476
01:12:24,774 --> 01:12:27,911
And we actually saw
one of the ushers come out,
1477
01:12:27,944 --> 01:12:30,914
and at a certain point
he had to tell them
1478
01:12:30,947 --> 01:12:32,849
that they weren't
gonna get in.
1479
01:12:32,882 --> 01:12:36,386
And, man, we saw the
emotion that happened
down that line.
1480
01:12:36,420 --> 01:12:38,254
Jim and I watched it
1481
01:12:38,287 --> 01:12:42,091
and he said,
"Wow, this movie's
a big, big hit."
1482
01:12:42,125 --> 01:12:46,630
So, yeah, that was
the last film that
he was on.
1483
01:12:46,663 --> 01:12:48,965
I was glad that he
was around to see
1484
01:12:48,998 --> 01:12:50,967
the success of
Ninja Turtles also.
1485
01:12:54,904 --> 01:12:58,842
From my point of view,
it's very humbling
1486
01:13:00,043 --> 01:13:02,746
that people would,
after all these 20 years,
1487
01:13:02,779 --> 01:13:06,916
that they would
still be into something
that we helped create.
1488
01:13:06,950 --> 01:13:10,587
All the hard work,
all of the people
that said no,
1489
01:13:12,689 --> 01:13:16,526
it just went out the door.
We did it, we made it.
1490
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:18,528
Coolest part is that
on camera they worked,
1491
01:13:18,562 --> 01:13:21,364
you believed
they were real.
1492
01:13:21,397 --> 01:13:23,500
I cannot sit here
and honestly say
1493
01:13:23,533 --> 01:13:25,502
there is anything
I would change
1494
01:13:25,535 --> 01:13:26,803
about them to
make them better.
1495
01:13:40,917 --> 01:13:43,653
I remember
watching that movie
kind of religiously,
1496
01:13:43,687 --> 01:13:47,156
almost every day.
The first one, anyways.
1497
01:13:50,359 --> 01:13:52,762
Going to bed or
before I went to bed,
1498
01:13:52,796 --> 01:13:55,164
it wouldn't feel right
if I didn't watch
that movie at the time.
1499
01:13:55,198 --> 01:13:57,033
I don't know
what that was,
1500
01:13:57,066 --> 01:13:58,602
but it definitely had
an impact on me.
1501
01:13:58,635 --> 01:14:00,036
I do remember
the feeling of
1502
01:14:00,069 --> 01:14:02,472
the first time I
heard the theme song,
which was...
1503
01:14:03,940 --> 01:14:06,476
At that moment,
I just kind of
instantly knew
1504
01:14:06,510 --> 01:14:08,712
that it was gonna be
a lifetime investment.
1505
01:14:08,745 --> 01:14:10,614
The great thing
about the Turtles
was that
1506
01:14:10,647 --> 01:14:14,050
they were so unbelievably
huge when I was growing up
1507
01:14:14,083 --> 01:14:16,019
that you had to
be a Turtle fan.
1508
01:14:16,052 --> 01:14:18,588
There was the Thundercats
and He-Man toys,
1509
01:14:18,622 --> 01:14:20,824
but then there's
this one green toy
that stood out,
1510
01:14:20,857 --> 01:14:23,960
this one toy that
was so different.
1511
01:14:23,993 --> 01:14:26,963
I remember just even
the typography of it,
1512
01:14:26,996 --> 01:14:29,599
the fact that it was
made from the shells
was always really cool.
1513
01:14:29,633 --> 01:14:32,802
I was really into
toys like He-Man
and all that stuff.
1514
01:14:34,337 --> 01:14:35,371
I saw these toys
and I was like,
1515
01:14:35,404 --> 01:14:36,773
"What is this?
I don't get it."
1516
01:14:36,806 --> 01:14:38,908
You know, "Do they like
pizza or something?"
1517
01:14:38,942 --> 01:14:40,877
It just didn't make
any sense or whatever.
1518
01:14:40,910 --> 01:14:41,978
So, I got Donatello
1519
01:14:42,011 --> 01:14:45,281
not really knowing the
context of what it was,
1520
01:14:45,314 --> 01:14:47,383
of what he belonged to
or whatever.
1521
01:14:47,416 --> 01:14:49,686
And then other kids
in school
1522
01:14:49,719 --> 01:14:51,154
would be like,
"Oh, you have Donatello!"
1523
01:14:51,187 --> 01:14:53,823
And they have Leo or somebody
and they go together.
1524
01:14:53,857 --> 01:14:55,725
If I were to be
a world leader,
1525
01:14:55,759 --> 01:14:57,561
then I would
definitely have to say
1526
01:14:57,594 --> 01:14:59,763
that being a kid
and growing up with
Ninja Turtles
1527
01:14:59,796 --> 01:15:02,098
definitely affected the
way I view the world.
1528
01:15:03,900 --> 01:15:05,535
EASTMAN: We would have
a bunch of discussions
1529
01:15:05,569 --> 01:15:08,037
with our agent,
Mark Freedman,
of longevity,
1530
01:15:08,071 --> 01:15:11,240
and he always said,
"Look, kids, it's
gonna be intro year,
1531
01:15:11,274 --> 01:15:13,543
"the banner year, and then
the discount bin year.
1532
01:15:13,577 --> 01:15:16,112
"Three years tops for
any successful toy item
1533
01:15:16,145 --> 01:15:17,380
"and then you're
done and gone."
1534
01:15:17,413 --> 01:15:20,216
AARONIAN:
Usually if a toy line,
especially action figures,
1535
01:15:20,249 --> 01:15:23,286
if they can last three years,
that's fantastic.
1536
01:15:23,319 --> 01:15:26,455
A three year life cycle
is really good
for this industry.
1537
01:15:26,489 --> 01:15:29,125
The percentages of
a successful product
are probably one in 10,
1538
01:15:29,158 --> 01:15:30,293
so it's very low.
1539
01:15:41,871 --> 01:15:43,607
Without a doubt,
Turtles affected my life.
1540
01:15:44,507 --> 01:15:45,675
I was obsessed
with Ninja Turtles!
1541
01:15:47,376 --> 01:15:48,511
Everybody wanted
to be the Turtles.
1542
01:15:48,544 --> 01:15:50,780
Everybody was
either Mikey, Leo,
1543
01:15:50,814 --> 01:15:54,217
the geek, Donnie,
or the badass wannabe,
Raphael.
1544
01:15:54,250 --> 01:15:57,053
Somebody could set a
Barbie doll in front of me
and a Ninja Turtle,
1545
01:15:57,086 --> 01:15:58,688
and I was just drawn
to the Ninja Turtle.
1546
01:15:58,722 --> 01:16:00,423
I think it was the action.
1547
01:16:00,456 --> 01:16:02,892
You see something,
especially in a group,
1548
01:16:02,926 --> 01:16:06,029
you just can't help
but to just be like,
"Oh, my God,
1549
01:16:06,062 --> 01:16:07,731
"I want to be this one,
I want to be that one!"
1550
01:16:07,764 --> 01:16:09,332
It was just real to me.
1551
01:16:09,365 --> 01:16:13,002
I don't know anybody
my age who wasn't crazy
about the Turtles.
1552
01:16:13,036 --> 01:16:16,572
Every school had
almost every class filled
with Ninja Turtle fans.
1553
01:16:16,606 --> 01:16:17,907
I like Michelangelo.
1554
01:16:17,941 --> 01:16:19,108
Leonardo.
1555
01:16:19,142 --> 01:16:20,243
Raphael.
1556
01:16:20,276 --> 01:16:21,244
Donatello.
1557
01:16:21,277 --> 01:16:23,046
Mikey.
1558
01:16:23,079 --> 01:16:25,114
I remember walking downstairs
Christmas morning
1559
01:16:25,148 --> 01:16:26,616
and I got Leonardo.
1560
01:16:26,650 --> 01:16:28,117
It's really like everything
that kids would want.
1561
01:16:28,685 --> 01:16:30,553
And I like the Turtles,
1562
01:16:30,586 --> 01:16:33,923
but the most best
is Splinter.
1563
01:16:33,957 --> 01:16:36,192
So, I made this Turtle Van
out of a shoe box,
1564
01:16:36,225 --> 01:16:38,094
and that shoe box
came with me everywhere.
1565
01:16:38,127 --> 01:16:40,596
Around that time,
it was my life.
1566
01:16:40,630 --> 01:16:45,434
They at one point had
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Valentine's Day valentines.
1567
01:16:45,468 --> 01:16:47,637
Come on,
that's a no-brainer.
1568
01:16:47,671 --> 01:16:49,873
I gave you the
"Cowabunga, dude" one.
1569
01:16:49,906 --> 01:16:52,241
But it pretty much
took over the world.
1570
01:16:52,275 --> 01:16:55,679
And I think a lot of kids
who grew up with it
1571
01:16:55,712 --> 01:16:57,914
know exactly what
I'm talking about.
1572
01:16:57,947 --> 01:17:00,549
Now we're becoming
successful in Canada,
1573
01:17:00,583 --> 01:17:02,652
now we're becoming
successful in Mexico,
1574
01:17:02,686 --> 01:17:05,922
now it's the Tortues Ninjas
in France.
1575
01:17:05,955 --> 01:17:09,325
* Tortues Ninja, Ninja
Tortues Ninja *
1576
01:17:09,358 --> 01:17:10,626
(LAUGHING)
1577
01:17:10,660 --> 01:17:12,128
And then we're doing...
1578
01:17:12,161 --> 01:17:13,863
The name has
to be changed to
1579
01:17:13,897 --> 01:17:16,966
"Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles"
in the UK
1580
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:18,802
because they've
outlawed "Ninja."
1581
01:17:18,835 --> 01:17:20,103
It's still
successful there.
1582
01:17:27,510 --> 01:17:31,781
Rock, dudes!
We did it, we won!
1583
01:17:31,815 --> 01:17:33,216
It was kind of
thrown out that,
1584
01:17:33,249 --> 01:17:35,752
"If you guys want to try
to come up with some ideas,
1585
01:17:35,785 --> 01:17:37,687
"you can send
them to Playmates,
1586
01:17:37,721 --> 01:17:40,656
"and if they get used,
that's cool."
1587
01:17:40,690 --> 01:17:44,027
Probably the toy I'm
most famous known for
is Rat King.
1588
01:17:44,060 --> 01:17:47,496
BROWN: They took
Leatherhead, Ray Fillet,
the cockroach, Scumbug,
1589
01:17:47,530 --> 01:17:49,298
Wyrm, Mondo Gecko,
1590
01:17:49,332 --> 01:17:52,335
toy Antrax
was created by Mike Dooney
and Dan Berger,
1591
01:17:52,368 --> 01:17:54,904
and then the Canadian
Royal Mounted Police Moose,
1592
01:17:54,938 --> 01:17:57,040
and that's the one
they picked, obviously,
1593
01:17:57,073 --> 01:17:59,075
because that
makes the most sense,
1594
01:17:59,108 --> 01:18:01,344
it's more than
a basketball-playing
giraffe, or...
1595
01:18:01,377 --> 01:18:03,012
I did an elephant, too.
1596
01:18:03,046 --> 01:18:04,513
Well, the elephant's
a witch doctor,
1597
01:18:04,547 --> 01:18:05,949
so I don't know if
that's politically correct,
1598
01:18:05,982 --> 01:18:08,117
but at the time
it was accepted.
1599
01:18:08,151 --> 01:18:11,788
I did Sergeant Bananas
and Wingnut from Screwloose.
1600
01:18:11,821 --> 01:18:13,790
It was almost a rule
1601
01:18:13,823 --> 01:18:15,725
that you could not
have a character
1602
01:18:15,759 --> 01:18:18,795
with two arms the same
or two legs the same.
1603
01:18:18,828 --> 01:18:22,431
One of them would
have to be a toilet plunger
1604
01:18:22,465 --> 01:18:26,235
or a robot leg
or a tentacle,
1605
01:18:26,269 --> 01:18:28,271
and it was cool!
1606
01:18:28,304 --> 01:18:32,375
They did some really
amazingly creative sculpts
and designs
1607
01:18:32,408 --> 01:18:33,676
and paint jobs
and stuff.
1608
01:18:33,709 --> 01:18:35,711
Mutagen Man.
1609
01:18:35,745 --> 01:18:39,315
Actually, I think I did the
preliminary design for that.
1610
01:18:39,348 --> 01:18:42,085
Turtles have been kind of
the Barbie of action figures.
1611
01:18:42,118 --> 01:18:44,720
You can apply almost
anything to Turtles.
1612
01:18:44,754 --> 01:18:48,091
BROWN: Playmates decided
nothing sells better
than a Turtle,
1613
01:18:48,124 --> 01:18:50,626
so they were
starting to concentrate
on just Turtle variants.
1614
01:18:50,659 --> 01:18:52,796
I submitted
a lot of stuff,
1615
01:18:52,829 --> 01:18:54,730
a lot of really
bad stuff.
1616
01:18:54,764 --> 01:18:58,567
I had this line
of mutant people,
like a plumber.
1617
01:18:58,601 --> 01:19:02,038
I had Motorhead,
which was a mutant cabbie,
1618
01:19:02,071 --> 01:19:05,208
a traffic cop who had
a stoplight for a head.
1619
01:19:12,281 --> 01:19:14,483
Also, can we talk
for a second,
1620
01:19:14,517 --> 01:19:16,285
about to blow
your minds,
1621
01:19:16,319 --> 01:19:18,321
about the video game.
1622
01:19:18,354 --> 01:19:20,423
TRACHTENBERG:
There's a couple tiers
of the video game.
1623
01:19:20,456 --> 01:19:22,391
There's the original game,
the Nintendo game
1624
01:19:22,425 --> 01:19:24,961
that was in the movie Wizard,
that was impossible.
1625
01:19:24,994 --> 01:19:26,896
ALBRECHT:
It is the hardest game.
1626
01:19:26,930 --> 01:19:30,199
But the arcade
four-player beat 'em up.
1627
01:19:30,233 --> 01:19:35,538
That video game is almost,
in its own category,
1628
01:19:35,571 --> 01:19:39,175
bigger than Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles
were in their category.
1629
01:19:39,208 --> 01:19:41,878
That video game was special
in its own right, you know?
1630
01:19:41,911 --> 01:19:43,246
I remember playing people
and I was like,
1631
01:19:43,279 --> 01:19:45,982
"I have to be Donatello,
that's my guy."
1632
01:19:46,015 --> 01:19:49,118
Not because of
his skills,
1633
01:19:49,152 --> 01:19:51,955
but because that was the guy
that I related to the most.
1634
01:19:51,988 --> 01:19:54,290
TRACHTENBERG:
Turtles in Time
at the arcade.
1635
01:19:54,323 --> 01:19:56,792
$20, and we were so
close to beating it.
1636
01:19:56,826 --> 01:19:59,262
We ran out of money, and
that was our allowance
of five weeks.
1637
01:19:59,295 --> 01:20:01,497
ALBRECHT:
Man, back in the day,
you had to pump money in...
1638
01:20:01,530 --> 01:20:04,133
So, produced
through the studio,
the Archie Comics...
1639
01:20:04,167 --> 01:20:06,469
Steve Murphy
wrote a lot of those,
1640
01:20:06,502 --> 01:20:08,671
Ken Mitchroney and
a lot of the guys
drew all that stuff.
1641
01:20:08,704 --> 01:20:11,207
We produced it in house and
published through Archie.
1642
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:12,575
BROWN:
Pete and Kevin said,
1643
01:20:12,608 --> 01:20:14,543
"Do whatever you want
with the Archie book,"
and we did.
1644
01:20:15,845 --> 01:20:17,646
I had some ideas
I wanted to do
1645
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:19,315
and no one else
wanted to do it.
1646
01:20:19,348 --> 01:20:20,716
I think Mike
Dooney had done
1647
01:20:20,749 --> 01:20:23,319
an adaption of
the Murakami-Wolf show.
1648
01:20:23,352 --> 01:20:25,855
DOONEY: So, I was actually
watching it on TV at home,
1649
01:20:25,889 --> 01:20:28,424
we didn't even
have a VHS of it
or whatever.
1650
01:20:28,457 --> 01:20:30,726
I was watching it on TV
and I had the storyboards,
1651
01:20:30,759 --> 01:20:32,361
so I would
draw it that way.
1652
01:20:32,395 --> 01:20:35,131
And I felt that there was
some other things
we could do with it
1653
01:20:35,164 --> 01:20:37,533
if Pete and Kevin
agreed with me,
1654
01:20:37,566 --> 01:20:40,769
and I talked to
them and they said,
"Yeah, that'd be great."
1655
01:20:40,803 --> 01:20:43,106
Then I talked to
Murph and wondered
1656
01:20:43,139 --> 01:20:47,076
if he'd partner up with me,
because I couldn't write it.
1657
01:20:47,110 --> 01:20:48,912
If something in the book
1658
01:20:48,945 --> 01:20:52,415
influenced someone
to maybe recycle
1659
01:20:52,448 --> 01:20:54,817
or make the world
a better place,
1660
01:20:54,850 --> 01:20:56,285
I think it's all
for the better.
1661
01:20:56,319 --> 01:20:58,521
BRAMMER:
They were just goofy
and strange enough
1662
01:20:58,554 --> 01:21:01,991
to where you can
do a lot of things
with them,
1663
01:21:02,025 --> 01:21:04,760
and that's one of the things
that makes them so popular,
1664
01:21:04,793 --> 01:21:06,295
they can go to
an alien world,
1665
01:21:06,329 --> 01:21:08,998
they can run around
downtown New York.
1666
01:21:09,032 --> 01:21:12,101
You can just use them
in different situations,
1667
01:21:12,135 --> 01:21:14,170
and it always
just seems to work.
1668
01:21:14,203 --> 01:21:16,172
We also produced
live entertainment.
1669
01:21:16,205 --> 01:21:19,675
In fact, we opened up on
Radio City Music Hall.
1670
01:21:19,708 --> 01:21:24,547
You couldn't stage a play,
so to speak, for little kids,
1671
01:21:24,580 --> 01:21:28,918
so instead they
had the Turtles
become rock stars.
1672
01:21:28,952 --> 01:21:31,287
The day of the opening,
the Turtles were just above
1673
01:21:31,320 --> 01:21:33,957
the Radio City
Music Hall marquee,
1674
01:21:33,990 --> 01:21:36,592
and they were performing
one of their songs live,
1675
01:21:36,625 --> 01:21:38,261
and it was
a terrific show.
1676
01:21:38,294 --> 01:21:42,098
And that show
went on the road,
1677
01:21:43,532 --> 01:21:46,035
and the Turtles appeared
live across the country
1678
01:21:46,069 --> 01:21:48,571
in venues everywhere
and internationally as well.
1679
01:21:48,604 --> 01:21:51,707
The summer after my
sophomore year of college,
1680
01:21:51,740 --> 01:21:52,775
a friend of mine
was working
1681
01:21:52,808 --> 01:21:54,777
at a theater company
as an intern.
1682
01:21:54,810 --> 01:21:57,846
Todd Holoubek
ran into a State
rehearsal and said,
1683
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:00,649
"Does anybody here
want to be a Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtle?"
1684
01:22:02,385 --> 01:22:05,254
I'd heard the name
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle,
I thought it was funny,
1685
01:22:05,288 --> 01:22:07,023
I didn't really
know what it was.
1686
01:22:07,056 --> 01:22:09,158
I think everybody
in the group said yes.
1687
01:22:09,192 --> 01:22:12,295
So, we went to this
rock and roll office.
1688
01:22:14,163 --> 01:22:16,765
A guy named Steven Leber
ran this office.
1689
01:22:16,799 --> 01:22:19,435
GARANT: So,
they needed anybody
who could go out
1690
01:22:19,468 --> 01:22:23,172
and put on the costumes
and do the advance work.
1691
01:22:23,206 --> 01:22:27,376
So, you would travel
one city ahead of the tour
1692
01:22:27,410 --> 01:22:29,178
and do promotion.
1693
01:22:29,212 --> 01:22:31,580
They were producing
a rock and roll Turtle tour
1694
01:22:32,915 --> 01:22:34,517
called the Coming Out
of Our Shells Tour.
1695
01:22:34,550 --> 01:22:36,485
GARANT: And the songs
that they were singing
1696
01:22:36,519 --> 01:22:40,156
were on this big
giant show at
Radio City Music Hall,
1697
01:22:40,189 --> 01:22:43,959
which had sold out
a four-week run
at Radio City Music Hall.
1698
01:22:43,993 --> 01:22:47,930
So, it was this big show
and Broadway dancers
were in the outfits.
1699
01:22:47,963 --> 01:22:50,466
* We're the Turtles!
1700
01:22:51,267 --> 01:22:54,037
* You can count on us!
1701
01:22:55,604 --> 01:22:59,875
And on the subway home,
my friend Ben is going,
1702
01:22:59,908 --> 01:23:02,078
"You know, it would be
kind of cool to sort of
1703
01:23:02,111 --> 01:23:05,548
"get paid to
travel the country
and be a turtle."
1704
01:23:05,581 --> 01:23:08,151
And I'm like, "Yeah,
it would be kind of
cool to do that."
1705
01:23:08,184 --> 01:23:10,186
And by the end of
the subway ride, we had
convinced ourselves
1706
01:23:10,219 --> 01:23:11,887
that we were gonna
drop out of school
1707
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:13,522
and become Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles.
1708
01:23:13,556 --> 01:23:14,723
And that's what we did.
1709
01:23:14,757 --> 01:23:17,760
So, it's this vinyl suit
1710
01:23:17,793 --> 01:23:21,197
with big rubbery attachments
1711
01:23:21,230 --> 01:23:24,633
and a hard plastic shell
and the robotic head,
1712
01:23:24,667 --> 01:23:28,237
which is filled with
servos and whirring gear
1713
01:23:28,271 --> 01:23:30,873
and electronics,
and the eyes open
and the mouth moves
1714
01:23:30,906 --> 01:23:33,209
and you control it
with a remote control.
1715
01:23:33,242 --> 01:23:36,645
Me and Mike Black both did
an appearance as the Turtles
1716
01:23:36,679 --> 01:23:42,185
at a pizza restaurant
somewhere in Juarez, Mexico.
1717
01:23:42,218 --> 01:23:44,587
They were doing
a show in Texas,
1718
01:23:44,620 --> 01:23:47,356
but we were
gonna go into Mexico
in Juarez to promote it.
1719
01:23:49,125 --> 01:23:51,294
And the idea was
we were gonna go to
this ice cream store
1720
01:23:51,327 --> 01:23:53,696
and greet kids at
an ice cream store
and wave,
1721
01:23:53,729 --> 01:23:58,367
but when we showed up,
there were thousands of
kids there.
1722
01:23:58,401 --> 01:24:01,537
And there was
no crowd control,
1723
01:24:01,570 --> 01:24:03,106
there was no cops,
1724
01:24:03,139 --> 01:24:05,541
it was just
this sea of people.
1725
01:24:05,574 --> 01:24:08,611
And we went up on
the roof of this thing
1726
01:24:08,644 --> 01:24:10,713
and it was like Saigon.
1727
01:24:12,115 --> 01:24:15,184
We were up on the roof
in these turtle outfits
1728
01:24:15,218 --> 01:24:19,188
as a sea of Mexican
children were just...
1729
01:24:19,222 --> 01:24:22,658
And we had pizza to
throw down at them
and T-shirts.
1730
01:24:22,691 --> 01:24:24,427
I'll never forget looking
through this turtle mask
1731
01:24:24,460 --> 01:24:26,829
at these
thousands of kids
1732
01:24:26,862 --> 01:24:29,698
just massed
outside this store
1733
01:24:29,732 --> 01:24:30,833
cheering and waving,
1734
01:24:30,866 --> 01:24:32,401
and we're dancing.
1735
01:24:34,069 --> 01:24:36,505
It was kind of
a profound moment,
because
1736
01:24:36,539 --> 01:24:39,375
it brought home
not only the phenomenon
of the Turtles,
1737
01:24:39,408 --> 01:24:41,410
but there was also something
sort of larger and sadder
1738
01:24:41,444 --> 01:24:43,078
about the state
of our world
1739
01:24:43,112 --> 01:24:45,848
in seeing
all these poor kids
1740
01:24:45,881 --> 01:24:47,350
who were
just as caught up
1741
01:24:47,383 --> 01:24:48,717
as their American
counterparts in this thing,
1742
01:24:48,751 --> 01:24:50,619
but had no access to it,
1743
01:24:50,653 --> 01:24:52,655
in the way that their
American counterparts did.
1744
01:24:52,688 --> 01:24:55,358
It was kind of a bummer,
but the ice cream was good.
1745
01:24:55,391 --> 01:24:58,727
* We gotta let the music be
1746
01:24:58,761 --> 01:25:02,030
* You know you gotta fight
to be free *
1747
01:25:02,064 --> 01:25:04,967
We were afraid that
this was a one-off.
1748
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:07,102
Obviously, so was New Line,
so was everybody.
1749
01:25:07,136 --> 01:25:09,205
The whole industry said,
1750
01:25:09,238 --> 01:25:10,873
"It's a one-off,
it's Cabbage Patch,
1751
01:25:10,906 --> 01:25:13,476
"it will never
be another one."
1752
01:25:13,509 --> 01:25:15,178
So we rushed,
1753
01:25:15,211 --> 01:25:17,413
we came up with a concept.
1754
01:25:17,446 --> 01:25:19,882
We got that thing shot
and on the screen
in one year.
1755
01:25:19,915 --> 01:25:20,949
That's pretty amazing.
1756
01:25:20,983 --> 01:25:22,651
And then we decided,
1757
01:25:22,685 --> 01:25:25,921
"Let's air it out
for a year. Let's...
1758
01:25:25,954 --> 01:25:28,457
"It's got muscle in it."
1759
01:25:28,491 --> 01:25:33,028
It did from 134 to 82,
that's not too bad.
1760
01:25:33,061 --> 01:25:34,463
So, when we did
the third movie,
1761
01:25:35,964 --> 01:25:38,834
we tried to make it more
towards the first movie,
1762
01:25:38,867 --> 01:25:41,970
which had a bit
more of an edge and
a bit more of an epic feel
1763
01:25:42,004 --> 01:25:43,972
and the back to Japan
storyline.
1764
01:25:44,006 --> 01:25:46,141
LAIRD: The first movie
I see as a huge step forward,
1765
01:25:46,175 --> 01:25:48,177
maybe even
a huge leap forward,
1766
01:25:48,211 --> 01:25:51,547
and the second movie was
a huge step backwards,
1767
01:25:51,580 --> 01:25:54,650
so we kind of
ended up in square one
with the third movie.
1768
01:25:58,387 --> 01:25:59,588
EASTMAN: It's really
hard to describe,
1769
01:25:59,622 --> 01:26:01,056
even when
you're going through it,
1770
01:26:01,089 --> 01:26:02,458
when you're in
the middle of it.
1771
01:26:02,491 --> 01:26:05,461
I remember the biggest
effect it had on probably
both Peter and I
1772
01:26:05,494 --> 01:26:09,565
was that we went from guys
that got into the business
1773
01:26:09,598 --> 01:26:11,667
to write and draw comics,
tell our own stories.
1774
01:26:11,700 --> 01:26:15,571
In, say, 1986, '87,
1775
01:26:15,604 --> 01:26:17,873
we were still drawing
roughly 90% of the time,
1776
01:26:17,906 --> 01:26:19,642
80% to 90% of the time,
1777
01:26:19,675 --> 01:26:22,110
and then handling business
10% to 20% of the time,
1778
01:26:22,144 --> 01:26:25,047
and then the following year,
it was a complete reversal.
1779
01:26:25,080 --> 01:26:27,783
LAIRD: Kevin and I,
we had kind of
been growing apart
1780
01:26:28,717 --> 01:26:31,186
as friends and
also business people.
1781
01:26:31,220 --> 01:26:33,222
He actually moved
out to the west coast,
1782
01:26:34,390 --> 01:26:35,924
I think,
in the early '90s.
1783
01:26:36,392 --> 01:26:38,294
At that time, I had
1784
01:26:38,327 --> 01:26:40,195
a number of other
creative things that I had.
1785
01:26:40,229 --> 01:26:41,697
I owned Heavy
Metal Magazine
1786
01:26:41,730 --> 01:26:43,332
and we were producing
a new movie there.
1787
01:26:43,366 --> 01:26:44,633
LAIRD: And we
ended up realizing,
1788
01:26:44,667 --> 01:26:46,269
I think both of us
came to the conclusion
1789
01:26:46,302 --> 01:26:48,837
that you can't really
run a partnership this way.
1790
01:26:48,871 --> 01:26:52,107
We'd already gone 10 years,
or at least seven years
1791
01:26:52,140 --> 01:26:54,810
beyond where they thought
it was going to go.
1792
01:26:56,645 --> 01:26:59,748
I'm grateful for every
single one of those years
1793
01:26:59,782 --> 01:27:00,883
and experiences,
1794
01:27:00,916 --> 01:27:03,286
so I signed over
creative control
to Peter.
1795
01:27:07,122 --> 01:27:11,059
LAIRD: Back in 2001,
I started up the
Turtle comic again,
1796
01:27:11,093 --> 01:27:14,196
really doing it myself
except for the penciling,
1797
01:27:14,229 --> 01:27:15,931
which Jim Lawson did.
1798
01:27:15,964 --> 01:27:20,102
I was plotting it, writing it,
lettering it, toning it,
1799
01:27:20,135 --> 01:27:22,938
doing some inking
on the first few issues.
1800
01:27:22,971 --> 01:27:25,841
And I was really having
a whole lot of fun with it,
1801
01:27:25,874 --> 01:27:30,078
and I thought, "This is great,
because I'm able to pick up
1802
01:27:30,112 --> 01:27:33,148
"about 10 years
after the last time I did
a regular Turtle book."
1803
01:27:33,181 --> 01:27:36,585
And although it did appeal
to a bunch of people,
1804
01:27:36,619 --> 01:27:40,055
I also started getting
a lot of people
commenting that,
1805
01:27:40,088 --> 01:27:44,393
"Jeez, I really liked
the old Eastman/Laird
ones a lot better."
1806
01:27:44,427 --> 01:27:48,464
And I think that
the problem
1807
01:27:48,497 --> 01:27:49,998
that people were
having with it
1808
01:27:50,032 --> 01:27:53,101
actually relates
to something,
1809
01:27:53,135 --> 01:27:55,037
one of those
fortuitous circumstances
1810
01:27:55,070 --> 01:27:56,705
that comes
along every so often
1811
01:27:58,374 --> 01:28:02,411
where two people of largely
different personalities
1812
01:28:03,979 --> 01:28:06,582
can get together
and work together
on something
1813
01:28:06,615 --> 01:28:09,818
and the whole is greater
than the sum of its parts.
1814
01:28:09,852 --> 01:28:12,321
It's actually
one of the things
I kind of regret,
1815
01:28:12,355 --> 01:28:14,457
about the fact that
Kevin and I have not
1816
01:28:14,490 --> 01:28:16,325
been so close
over the years,
1817
01:28:16,359 --> 01:28:20,262
because he and I
went through this together
and no one else did.
1818
01:28:20,295 --> 01:28:22,465
And I'm sure
there are things
1819
01:28:22,498 --> 01:28:24,767
that he would say to me
or I would say to him
1820
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:26,869
that would spark some memory
in our heads,
1821
01:28:26,902 --> 01:28:30,706
like, "Oh, yeah, I remember
when that kind of
goofy thing happened."
1822
01:28:30,739 --> 01:28:32,375
Pete!
LAIRD:
What's that, Kev?
1823
01:28:33,776 --> 01:28:35,844
See, we had
a design idea here.
1824
01:28:35,878 --> 01:28:37,946
See up here where
it's all white...
1825
01:28:40,916 --> 01:28:43,185
LAIRD: My favorite Turtle
has always been Donatello,
1826
01:28:43,218 --> 01:28:45,454
because he's the
pacifist of the group.
1827
01:28:45,488 --> 01:28:47,923
Kevin's favorite
Turtle is Raphael,
1828
01:28:47,956 --> 01:28:50,826
probably the most
aggressive of the Turtles.
1829
01:28:50,859 --> 01:28:53,261
And I think it was
the combination of
those two approaches
1830
01:28:53,295 --> 01:28:56,499
that really made
those early issues
something special.
1831
01:28:59,435 --> 01:29:02,037
RICHARDSON: So, it's been
two and a half decades
for the Turtles,
1832
01:29:02,070 --> 01:29:04,707
so we've seen lots
of generations of
1833
01:29:04,740 --> 01:29:07,175
five to 11-year-olds
come through,
1834
01:29:07,209 --> 01:29:10,212
but they all react
similarly
1835
01:29:10,245 --> 01:29:12,581
when it comes to the Turtles,
so there's something...
1836
01:29:14,583 --> 01:29:17,820
The core of the Turtles
is appealing to kids.
1837
01:29:17,853 --> 01:29:21,056
But now we're seeing
parents, especially dads
1838
01:29:21,089 --> 01:29:22,591
coming up
with their son,
1839
01:29:22,625 --> 01:29:25,093
and the son's three
or four years old,
1840
01:29:25,127 --> 01:29:27,730
and the dad's like,
"I loved the series,
1841
01:29:27,763 --> 01:29:28,931
"the original Turtles,
when I was a kid,
1842
01:29:28,964 --> 01:29:32,000
"and now my son has
found it on his own."
1843
01:29:40,609 --> 01:29:42,845
LAIRD: The sale of
the Turtle property
1844
01:29:42,878 --> 01:29:46,214
was something that had been
considered for a long time,
1845
01:29:46,248 --> 01:29:49,918
and then in October of 2009,
we signed some papers
1846
01:29:49,952 --> 01:29:52,855
and got some checks
and that was it.
1847
01:30:04,232 --> 01:30:06,268
We're walking
down the toy aisle,
the action figure aisle,
1848
01:30:06,301 --> 01:30:09,204
and this mother's
kind of dragging this
kid out of the aisle going,
1849
01:30:09,237 --> 01:30:12,875
and the kid's pitching a fit
going, "Mommy, please!"
1850
01:30:12,908 --> 01:30:15,844
And just as
we're getting there,
the mom was like,
1851
01:30:15,878 --> 01:30:17,646
"No, no, no,
I'm not buying you
1852
01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:19,147
"one of those
stupid Ninja Turtles,"
1853
01:30:19,181 --> 01:30:20,415
and went off.
1854
01:30:20,449 --> 01:30:22,885
And Peter and I
looked at each other
and went like,
1855
01:30:22,918 --> 01:30:25,420
"Holy, what did we do?"
1856
01:30:25,454 --> 01:30:27,456
These characters
were as real,
1857
01:30:27,490 --> 01:30:29,558
and are as real,
even today,
1858
01:30:29,592 --> 01:30:31,326
for so many people,
1859
01:30:31,359 --> 01:30:33,228
because it just
touched so many lives.
1860
01:30:33,261 --> 01:30:35,764
The Turtles is a great story
from that standpoint,
1861
01:30:35,798 --> 01:30:39,034
it's a story of two guys
that borrowed money
1862
01:30:39,067 --> 01:30:42,805
and had a dream and
took a comic book to press.
1863
01:30:42,838 --> 01:30:46,341
It's lightning in a jar,
it really is,
1864
01:30:46,374 --> 01:30:49,678
and you can't
create that on purpose,
1865
01:30:49,712 --> 01:30:52,515
you just got to do
it from your heart.
1866
01:30:52,548 --> 01:30:55,150
To put it in perspective,
the peak year
1867
01:30:55,183 --> 01:31:00,188
we shipped 100 million units
of figures and vehicles.
1868
01:31:00,222 --> 01:31:02,525
Which I would
guess that
1869
01:31:02,558 --> 01:31:04,159
that is the
biggest single year
1870
01:31:04,192 --> 01:31:07,763
that any action figure line
has ever experienced.
1871
01:31:07,796 --> 01:31:11,667
If nothing else
ever is said about
this franchise is that
1872
01:31:11,700 --> 01:31:14,069
it changed so
many people's lives,
1873
01:31:14,102 --> 01:31:17,305
and at this point in life,
it's all good.
1874
01:31:17,339 --> 01:31:20,008
Certainly when we
got the job originally,
none of us,
1875
01:31:20,042 --> 01:31:21,977
and I'm sure
you've heard this from
everybody else on the show,
1876
01:31:22,010 --> 01:31:25,447
nobody knew that we'd
be here talking about it
a generation later.
1877
01:31:25,480 --> 01:31:29,818
There is something about
that central concept of the
Turtles that is timeless.
1878
01:31:29,852 --> 01:31:33,321
Four outsiders
brought together
under a mentor,
1879
01:31:33,355 --> 01:31:34,657
living in this world
1880
01:31:34,690 --> 01:31:36,491
and trying to
make their way,
1881
01:31:36,525 --> 01:31:40,062
it's a fabulous
sort of parable
for adolescence.
1882
01:31:40,095 --> 01:31:44,432
Even The Avengers are
big on the movie screen,
1883
01:31:44,466 --> 01:31:47,369
but the Turtles
also had a TV show
1884
01:31:47,402 --> 01:31:49,672
that was on every day,
that kids watched,
1885
01:31:49,705 --> 01:31:54,076
they had three movies out,
they had an album and a tour.
1886
01:31:54,109 --> 01:31:59,114
So, if The Avengers also had
songs about being Avengers,
1887
01:31:59,147 --> 01:32:03,318
and were going on tour
on stage as The Avengers,
1888
01:32:03,351 --> 01:32:05,788
there's no comparison.
1889
01:32:05,821 --> 01:32:08,090
I do think that there's
something just built
in the core
1890
01:32:08,123 --> 01:32:11,159
of these four green guys
1891
01:32:11,193 --> 01:32:14,296
that is endearing forever.
1892
01:32:14,329 --> 01:32:18,533
How I was working
in a lobster restaurant
in Maine,
1893
01:32:18,567 --> 01:32:21,069
met a waitress
that I really liked,
1894
01:32:21,103 --> 01:32:22,037
we fell in love,
1895
01:32:22,070 --> 01:32:24,039
she was going to
school in Amherst,
1896
01:32:24,072 --> 01:32:26,942
I moved with her
to Amherst,
1897
01:32:26,975 --> 01:32:31,413
happened to have
a getting-by job
at a pizza place,
1898
01:32:31,446 --> 01:32:32,547
just happened to be
on the bus
1899
01:32:32,581 --> 01:32:33,882
on the right day,
at the right time,
1900
01:32:33,916 --> 01:32:36,351
to find this magazine
that somebody left behind
1901
01:32:36,384 --> 01:32:39,187
that made me pursue
my career goal
1902
01:32:39,221 --> 01:32:40,989
of wanting to write
and draw comic books
1903
01:32:41,023 --> 01:32:43,025
to this place in Northampton,
which led me to Peter.
1904
01:32:43,058 --> 01:32:46,161
What if that person who had
that Scat magazine
1905
01:32:46,194 --> 01:32:47,963
hadn't dropped it on
the floor of that bus
1906
01:32:47,996 --> 01:32:49,765
that Kevin was
taking from Amherst
to Northampton?
1907
01:32:50,966 --> 01:32:52,234
It would never
have happened.
1908
01:32:52,267 --> 01:32:53,201
There's too many...
1909
01:32:54,670 --> 01:32:56,605
Too many
happy accidents.
1910
01:33:12,254 --> 01:33:14,056
(INSPIRING MUSIC PLAYING)
1911
01:36:22,811 --> 01:36:24,512
(YOU GOT THE POWER
(TURTLE POWER) PLAYING)
149485
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