All language subtitles for Bill.Viola.The.Road.to.St.Pauls (2019).720p.HDTV.x264.AAC.MVGroup.org

For well over a decade,
the renowned video artist Bill Viola

has worked relentlessly
on a unique commission

for St Paul's Cathedral in London -

to create on either side
of the High Altar

a permanent video installation
depicting Mary,

the mother of Christ,
and the Christian martyrs.

Throughout that time,
the film-maker Gerry Fox

was there to document Viola's
journey from beginning to end.

This month, London's Royal Academy
has chosen to display 12 video

installations by Viola alongside
works by the great Renaissance

artist Michelangelo,
primarily drawings loaned

from the Royal Collection.

As a young man, Viola was heavily
influenced by the father

of video art, Nam June Paik.

In the early '70s, Viola lived
and worked in Florence,

the home of Renaissance art.

He was there
as the technical director

of a cutting-edge video studio.

But over time, the themes
and imagery of those Renaissance

artists began to play an
increasing part in his own work.

Bill Viola is one of
the pioneers of video art.

And really experimented
with the medium, got under its skin,

tried to understand its properties,
its dimensions, and transformed it.

Was part of the generation
that really brought it

into the mainstream
of contemporary practice.

For example, we find behind us
a piece that depicts a man

and a woman in old age
scrutinising their bodies

as if they try to understand perhaps
where their youth has gone

or try to read the folds in their
skin like the rings of a tree.

They are clearly towards
the end of their life.

It's an elderly man and woman
and the images are projected

onto black granite.

It really is a very moving,
symbolic representation

of our passage through life.

As you know, I've been really
involved in looking at late medieval

early Renaissance art and that's
a huge part of my awakening,

really, because when I was younger

I didn't want to pay any attention
to that at all.

That was of no interest to me.

I had video, it was new,
it was on the way,

it was some brand-new way
of making images,

and that's where I wanted
to be as a young artist.

And it took me a long time, it was
really until my mother's death,

really, I think, that turned
that around for me and I began

to look at these images which
these people had been creating.

THUNDERING

I'd always thought as long
as I had known Bill's works

how close an affinity
and relationship there was between

Bill's work and Michelangelo's,
and we have in the Royal Collection

one of the great groups
of Michelangelo's finished drawings.

And I showed them to Bill.
He didn't really know them.

He knew them by reputation
but didn't know the works before.

And he was awestruck by them.

They are the most extraordinary
things, and in the flesh

they have a power that
no reproduction can convey.

And from that moment we started
talking about the idea of a possible

exhibition of Bill's works
in relationship to Michelangelo's.

The expression of grief
is one of the most profound.

I'm looking at it without the glass,
without anything, six inches away,

and seeing every little detail
of what this amazing hand created.

The representation is so striking
that to me this whole room

is just vibrating with emotions.

The first thing I did
was think of this piece.

It was immediately just
the most important thing.

I'm saying we do need
to have the image of death

in this room as well
because it's so clear here.

Bill featured his dying mother
in this triptych.

In February '91 his mother passed
away and it was a kind

of a really shocking thing because
it was unexpected,

an aneurysm, but for three months
she was lying in a coma,

and so that was an incredibly
difficult thing to have to live

through when you are watching
someone dying, basically.

Yes, this was a very, very
critical moment.

BELL TOLLS

Bill, thank you for coming across.

I think the whole notion of doing
something with the martyrs and Mary

is for me the most extraordinary
opportunity to bring

in some universal principles.

And you've picked up all the
resonances that we were feeling
after.

I saw Bill's exhibition
at the National Gallery,

The Passions, a year or two back.

And I suddenly realised
what would happen to people

who are visitors to St Paul's
if they were confronted

by a multi-panel display.

Because if you have a painting, you
stop for 15 seconds and you pass on,

but Bill's works, it seems to me,
which is in a contemporary idiom,

actually asks that you stop
and you engage with it,

and I think it may yet prove
to be an art form which requires

a greater degree of involvement
than the more traditional forms.

We are a Christian cathedral.

Right. And of course for us
these two locations wrap themselves

around the High Altar. Right.

With all the connotations of death
and resurrection which we find

in the Christian story. Absolutely.
So that's also important.

Yeah, I mean, Christianity,
basically, in a very fundamental
way,

and I don't want to be too
simplistic here, it's the story

of a birth and a death.

I mean, that's really
the essence of it all.

It's about life, death and life.
Yes, that's true.

If I may. Yes.
The never-ending cycle.

That's right. And rebirth.

And I think that kind of connection
which connects the gods,

which always seemed beyond
people at that moment,

became all of a sudden one of us
and became connected to us.

10, 20 years
back, there were small chapels

in these two places dedicated
to Mary and to modern martyrs,

and for all kinds of reasons,
before I was here as Dean,

those two chapels
were set on one side.

But it did seem to me
that there was a connection

between Mary on the one side
and modern martyrs on the other.

Maybe for some kind of picture,
or...?

They may or may not have
done because you see
we've got these rectangular panels.

They are inviting, aren't they?

Absolutely. They are saying,
"Come on give me a video artist."
Or something like that. Yes.

"We want a video artist."

THEY LAUGH

I'm sure Wren had that in mind
when he was designing the thing.

I think he may have had.
There you are.

There is this inset
into the wall and obviously

someone had intended...

HE SCREAMS

I had the absolute incredible
experience as a young artist right

out of art school, and all
of a sudden there is this incredible

human being, Nam June Paik,
who is really taking this medium

and making it do crazy
kinds of things.

It was just really, really powerful.

And there was three of us were doing
this together with Nam June.

Where it all comes together
very interestingly for Bill

is Nam June Paik's TV garden,

and one of the people
helping to install

that work at the Everson Art Museum
in Syracuse, New York was

Bill Viola because he was
at Syracuse University as a student

and was discovering,
through that place, this medium

and the possibilities
that resided there.

He just inspired me so deeply
and that set me on my career

and just shot me out
like in a cannon.

You know those guys in the circus
that just shoot out in the cannon?

It was kind of like that.

This period when he was
at Syracuse University,

this is where he was transformed.

Bill, in his very first tapes,

in formation,
broke the representational

image on the screen,
had the sound push

what you could see

on the monitor and created
a radical, abstract work.

So, right from that beginning,
he was really wanting to use

this medium as a
new form of expression.

Try to stay in a line, OK?

OK, I'm going to go
to the far stake.

In 2011, six years after
receiving the commission,

Bill Viola finally began filming
in earnest on the story of Mary

for the St Paul's project.

That's great.

We've got to get rid
of that, obviously.

But those hills are fantastic.

And look how dark the oaks are.

There's real texture.

Look out here, everybody.

Look at the amount of colour
that's in that hill right there.

Most people would look at it
and just say, "Oh, it's a dead
field," but look at it.

I mean, besides the movement
in the grass right now,

look at all the browns and there's
even some purple out there,

green, multiple shades of green.

It's really, really extraordinary.

Is there any sort of a rig
that the camera could be facing

back and you could have
a monitor forward? No.

I think that would be
really a great thing,

wouldn't it? That would be a great
thing.

The external world for me
is just a kind of backdrop,

and that's fine, and I think
the physical world has a very

special role to play in the cosmos,
certainly, but I feel that the human

soul, basically the software,
is really where I want to be with my

camera, whatever that is.

We were able to get Alessia,
our Mary, to come down the hill.

Look at the ground.

Camera get ready. Go.

And, in the course of
that simple walk down a hill,

to completely transfigure herself.

OK. Now come round to camera,
all the way in.

She's kind of tired,
yeah, but she's actually become,

it's actually you've gotten
stronger in a way. Yeah.

And you had these experiences
along the way. It is mixed.

And now you've become stronger
because of those experiences

that happened to you than when
she started, you're stronger.

Yes. It feels very natural.

Yeah, it does. Beautiful!

They're both touching each other's
tummies, just to show the viewers

that they recognise
that they're both pregnant.

And then after that moment
feels itself out,

I will take her hand.
And I will... This one...

You're the passive one, remember.

Yeah. Because you just came and it's
like you're still...

I am not active but emotional.

Perfect, yes. That's great. OK.

And she's the one that's
helping you to arrive, you know?

Really helping your cousin,
you know, your little cousin.

Bill Viola tackled the meeting
of Mary and her cousin Elizabeth

once before, in 1995
in The Greeting.

WHISPERING

Further left.

OK, that's it, straight.

Go left, Alessia.

A little left.

I need to slow down Alessia
a little bit more. OK.

And I think the camera needs
to stop when they stop. Yeah.

Alessia, stay to the right.
Stay to the right, Alessia.

Maybe look down.

Let's keep it moving.

OK, bring her close.

We're going to set up a series
of marks, guys, for Gabriel.

Cos Gabriel has the longest
single approach and that's got

to be dead on.

The Crucifixion is an
important icon, basically,

in the Christian tradition,
certainly.

It is the notion of suffering.

There is Mary Magdalen
according to Grunewald.

So this is her ointment jar.
What she does is anoints the feet

of Jesus, and the thing that
Grunewald does which is so
phenomenal, that I love,

and I saw you kind of doing it,
I'm just pointing it out

to you again, is the hands,
Grunewald's hands are so expressive

and they are unusually expressive.

Grunewald was one of the greatest
painters in the history of art.

He just had this incredible depth
to him and he was fearless.

So I have these three people
that are just waiting

for this moment when the person
they love the most will die.

So the vigil at the cross is that,
it's about that waiting.

There is nothing like this image
that we are seeing right now

of the setting sun
in the Salton Sea.

It is just magnificent.

I've been coming here
for most of my adult life.

Every single time I come here
it's not just a little different,

it's vastly different.

I think these kind of
very special places,

here in the Salton Sea,
the Mojave Desert, Death Valley,

these incredible places
that we have in America,

really are, traditionally,
those are the places where people

came to understand
themselves, to go deeper

and deeper, not into life
but into the cosmos in general,

which is even beyond life.

A little bird came up. How cute.

I remember when my mother
passed away, I looked right

at her when she took
her last breath. And yes,

it was sad, yes,
it was unacceptable,

but in the end there was a deeper
depth in there that went to a place

I would say was beautiful,

not in a cosmetic way again
but in a real inner way,

and I'll never forget that gift.

That was the last gift
she gave to me, actually,

to teach me that beauty and death
and life and art are all connected.

You can find beauty
in the birth of a child.

But you can also find
beauty in death.

I've been working with death
for many, many years

because I had a near-drowning
experience that almost killed me

when I was six years old.

HEAVY BREATHING

We are just here for the ride,
from enter stage left,

exit at stage right, and that's it.

I saw this beautiful light coming
from under the water,

and so I just went
into it by myself.

No-one told me to do it.

And it just took me.

It was really, really powerful,
and I kept going that way,

you know, go down, down,
down, instead of up.

And then...

HE LAUGHS

..you know,
I should have drowned.

I should have drowned
for, like, this much time

and I would have been gone.

And there would be no Bill Viola,
all of those movies...the things

that we've done.

You just feel like you want to go
back to that place and you want

to go back to it and go back
to it, and that's why

all of the water comes in my work.

That's where it actually happens.

At that one point, and then every
single time like that,

every time I've seen water,
I have to have water.

This work is always
dear to my heart.

It has to do with dreams.

I think the dream state is one
of the most important things

in human existence.

WAVES ROAR

SCREAMING

These are the archetypes
of human culture.

These are the great,
great stories of humanity.

And that's something that I think
artists have always tried to deal

with in their work.

I did it in my own way.

THUNDERING

Five Angels for the Millennium,
for example, for me, is a deeply

spiritual piece but it's also
a piece that has to do

with resurrection and rebirth.

We're going to put rubble
over this so it'll just blend in.

OK, that's great.
You've got to spread those out.

Hey, Blake, that's
got to be spread out,

you need more over there.

Separate those a little bit.

OK, that's good.

That's good.

Right now, we're standing
here in the third scene

of the Crucifixion.

It is the scene of Mary

finally having some time
with her dead son,

just the two of them alone.

That is known as the Pieta,
and it's a very moving image

of a mother who has
just lost a child.

That's your son, Alessia.

That's your boy.

You nursed him when he was a child.

You gave life to him.

That's lovely, that's beautiful.

The journey that we're on right now,

I'll let you start it,
you can just go into it. Yeah.

OK, and I'll watch you...

And the first take,
it can be good,

it can be just a warm-up,
we don't know. Yeah, yeah, OK.

What do you think about those two?
They're too symmetrical. Yeah, yeah.

I don't know, let me have a look.

You know, Mick just said
that this is not precise.

When we decided to stage the pieta
here and I realised that,

yes, of course, it's about
this destructive force,

and it's about the
ability for human beings

and for the environment itself

and for God to regrow that,
re-bring it into the world,

to continue to give it meaning.

OK, Alessia, leave your hand there.

You can do it now.

He's giving you strength,
and you can do it.

Three, two, one, cut.

So, thinking about
the right-hand panel,

which deals with death,

and basically transcendence,
as well,

people who realise that the way
to realise their faith

is to leave their bodies, literally.

So I had this image
of people suffering,

but at the same time being
liberated from their suffering.

I don't know what that'll lead to.

I saw water, I saw people
caked in mud, in my mind,

and the mud was being
washed off by the water.

So I just have to sit with that.

That's what,
I'm in a receptive mode now,

and that's a very precious thing
for me, and it's very delicate,

cos if the ways of the world
get too involved,

and too distracting,
you can lose the thread.

It's about being quiet
and being empty, really.

I'm beginning to feel
a grounding here,

which I need to establish,

and I do that whether it's in
a magnificent cathedral like this,

or in Durham, where I did the piece
just about ten years ago.

The work needs to feel grounded

in the place that it's in.

Well, we have been working
for 28 years together,

and usually I come in on it
a little bit after Bill's

developed the ideas,
and then we discuss the ideas

and then figure out how to do them.

HE LAUGHS

What? I forgot...

How long have we been doing this?
35 years? You didn't write it down?

No, I didn't write it down.
OK, we'll do it again.

Wait, no, hold on, wait...
Let's do this one first.

Kira's role is really essential.
She does let me have my space,
which is necessary,

but when I feel myself sort of
emerging from the creative cloud

and things are starting to
get more concrete enough

that I can really describe
them very carefully...

It's the last bit.
Can you put your hand here?

In a minute. You...
OK, then we'll take from this.

Let's get one thing at a time.

VOICEOVER: Start to make
some sketches

about what it might
look like, or notes,

then very often I'll ask Kira
at a certain point to come in.

Sometimes she'll just
push her way into the door

and say, "You've been
there long enough,"

and we'll, and I'll start to...
Deadlines, deadlines!

I'll start to describe
to her some of the ideas,

and it is very essential
for me to have a kind of

a reflective sounding board in
someone who I'm so in love with

and connected with.
It's very, very special.

Well, we're here in Venice,
in the Church of San Gallo,

which is a very small family chapel

from the early 15th century.

It's quite a special place,

it's a very intimate kind of space,

and it has in it most notably
three large stone altars.

And then I was looking at the space,

and realised that I could make
something that incorporated

the actual architecture
of the church into my work.

For me, what helped me
tremendously here was to realise

that these altars are
not solid, opaque objects.

These are actually portals,

and that's how these altars
are used,

that's why they have
such tremendous power, really,

for connecting with human beings
in the most intimate level.

It's precisely because
they are made of stone,

which is one of our
most eternal materials.

They are absolutely
translucent and transparent,

and you can literally
journey into them

and go where you need to go
inside yourself.

That connection, I think,
having worked on this piece now,

has been very important, and
it's going to be really essential

for taking on the St Paul's project.

What you're seeing right here

is a person walking
through a wall of water,

and during that transition,
the image itself transforms

from this old, grainy,
security camera image, circa 1970s,

to the latest contemporary
movie-quality camera.

What qualifications I have
to do a piece like this,

which has the theme of the dead
coming back to life,

was really my experience
with both my mother in 1991,

and my father in 1999,

to be at the bedside, holding their
hands when they left their bodies.

And if you've witnessed someone die,

you literally feel something
leaves their body,

and there is a moment
when their body just becomes

a material vacuum, a container.

They spend some time
with us on our side,

in our world, in the physical world,
the material world,

and then, at a certain point,
they realise they have to go back.

And, you know,
some don't want to, some do,

but they all must turn, and
they all must leave us and go back,

and it's quite strong when someone
turns their back on you, you know?

It's a very clear decision.

A few of them hesitate,
but in the end they all go back.

And here we are in St Paul's,

in this incredible place.

And for the first time seeing
these mock-ups in situ,

which is going to be very close
to how the piece is going to look.

Every time you move,
it's a different thing.

I know. It's true.

Can we see the larger screens?

I know you don't have
the same image on that.

I just wanted to see what the
larger screens look like.

Can we do that?
I'm going to centre it, yeah?

OK. Fairly light kind of screens...

That's too big, I think.

Yeah, it interacts much
more intense than... Yeah.

I think we should try
the smaller screens again

and have a look from here.
Absolutely.

Yeah, let's do that. Yeah.

The Mary piece is about the Earth,
it's about fertility,

it's about the feminine principle.

That must be in contact
with the ground somewhere,

with this floor, with this building.

And that's really important.
So it's going to have a plinth

at the bottom, a pedestal,
and it will hold the screens.

The martyrs are the inverse of that.

The martyrs are on their way
not to Earth but heaven.

Well, the whole notion of martyrdom
is that you've accepted your fate.

And that you are sacrificing
yourself for some higher good

or for some ideal
that you have inside.

And we're meeting these four people
on these screens

at a time when they've
already accepted it.

You have John Hay,
who is the water person.

And he's left for dead

and then he's hoisted up, actually.

There we go.

And he's literally hoisted
upside down with his arms out.

Hold that. Hold that.

And it's the position that
St Peter was crucified in.

It's one of the most painful ways
in the Roman empire to kill someone.

And so he's upside down, arms out,

like a piece of meat hanging down,

and then slowly again
he kind of wakes up again,

sees where he is, and then
he gathers that strength again.

And then this water comes
down on him, pours on him,

and buffets him, he's moved
around and stuff like that,

and then finally
he gets the strength

and then he breaks through
and he ascends.

Start turning off the water,
little by little.

His whole body actually comes up
and goes right up out of frame,

and then you just
see drops after that

at the end, until little drips
happen and then it's gone,

he's gone.
And that's the first one.

The second one is wind, the wind,

and that's done by Sarah.

And she's battling the wind,
that's her protagonist.

Very slow.

The wind happens and it
gets stronger and stronger.

And then there's this tussle again

and then she breaks through that.

She sees where she is.

She knows she can do this.

She knows that she can continue.

A little bit more.
Bring it up a little bit more.

Don't let her spin.

The fire work is really intense.

We are trying to gather together
multiple takes from different angles

so that we can bring together
multiple things in the same frame.

Looks really, really good.
And the colours are going to

just really bounce off that shirt.

Yeah, cos then that's...

Then I die.

And I go up in smoke.

It's a black thing!

He wakes up
and he realises, like,

he's in a really bad situation

with fire around him,
ready to burn him alive.

And then so he has to come
out of his cocoon and really begin

to fight back so he gets
the strength, miraculously,

to get to that point.
He breaks through that

and then you begin to see light
at the end of the tunnel

and things start calming down,
and all of a sudden then

he can look upward, outward,

and feel that he finally
broke through.

And he's, quote unquote,
"seen the light".

FIRE CRACKLES

And then there's the earth.

The earth. The earth is,
of course, the Earth itself,

and that's an image of a person
who's underground,

who's got dirt on them and stuff,
and is trying to find the way out.

You can put your arms down, Norman.

OK, now you're slowly
going to come down.

Take it down.

However you want to land.

I can go way faster than this.
OK, let's go faster.

It's really about the earth,

and I've never done anything
with earth before.

This is a new element for me,
which is kind of exciting.

How much dirt was that, Giuliano?

That was, like, eight bags total.

And then, of course, the idea
of possibly running it backwards,

of course, came into my mind
and also Kira, too,

and we discussed it and stuff.

So that was the starting point,

that we were going to turn
this thing around,

like we often do,
and when I get stuck in general,

I just do what my art professor
told me many years ago.

He said, "Bill, if you get stuck,
just do it backwards."

Dirt is your protagonist. Right.

And you're trying to...

..get him away. Right?

Oh, I am? Oh, no, wait, sorry.

I think I might be doing this wrong.

Yeah, we're going backwards. OK.

So, yes, so we're going
the other way. Right.

Even this backwards thing,
I use that a lot

and I can't tell you how many times
it's like, I go,

"Now, was it this backwards
or that backwards?"

Exactly. Yeah.

Oh, geez, I don't know now.

They're both very beautiful,
the forward and the backwards.

Oh, no, this is the piece.
You can't...

You have to go backwards.
I know, I know.

You can't go forwards!

All the dirt starts rising,
you know?

It's like the Creation, you know,

coming out from all
the materials in nature

is now getting condensed into
this thing, and it's ascending now.

This idea of this incredible
ascension, this uplifting,

this up-moving energy that
in the ultimate sense in the end

is not a physical thing at all.

It's a metaphysical thing.

And that's, of course, where
my work is really connected.

Cos right now, I'm coming in
from an angle. Oh, that's right.

So if I sweep it all the way
round the other end,

you'll get more of a straight drop.

Because when it falls
right over the edge,

it literally falls right
over that edge.

Bravo.

Are you OK? Yeah.

Did you get some, a little bit?

It's more that I was surprised,
it's more dusty.

It looked great. It's exactly,
this amount of dirt was really...

It's good? It's just
what I was thinking, yeah.

But it wasn't painful
or anything, right?

All of these pieces
in these elements series

that we're doing right now,
they're all about those elements

that need to be confronted with
something, with the protagonists,

and then that's got to be battled
with in our own way

and then we've got to find a
place ourselves to break through.

I'm experiencing this thing

which is not really crushing me,
it's saving me. Right.

And it's there.

Right.

Cos you start really looking up,
when we first see you.

I'm starting...
You're starting at the end. Right.

I'm starting at the end,
in a place...

You're starting at the liberation.

..in a place of exultation, or...
Exactly. Yes, right.

..and freedom. Yes. Right.

And it's a collapse. Yeah.

And you're being folded in
from all sides, like this.

One of the pieces I'm really
excited about is an image of

two elderly people on two slabs
of granite seven feet high.

They literally are being
projected on that granite.

They slowly pick up little
flashlights that they've been

holding at their side, and they take
those flashlights and then they

go up every part of their body.

So basically what they're both
doing is they're checking

for something that could
kill them, basically.

Whether it be cancer or whatever.

What it is is they are looking at
a mirror and we are the mirror.

So it's like it's in your bathroom,
let's say,

and you're just looking
at the mirror,

to just see the parts
that you don't normally see.

They're really creating a kind
of ritualistic way

of looking at their body.

And at the very, very end,

their bodies seem to be getting
thinner and more gaunt

and then gradually, they look
at us and this pixelated grain

that's like a shimmering thing
envelops their body.

So these are, in my mind,
the kind of pixels of the cosmos

that we will all turn into,
we all will go from dust to dust.

Hitting maximum!

Let's just look at this.
We just need to...

No, we... No, this is wrong.

If he goes down too slowly,
which is what just happened,

all the dirt piles up and
there's no dirt going on his back.

You should tell him that directly.
I'm not going to tell him anything.

I just want to... No, you have to.
He doesn't know not to...

He's now, in my opinion,
he's mugging.

And just, you know,

I don't think it's not necessary

to look up and do all
this kind of thing. OK.

But I think it's just...

..a matter of just feeling the dirt.

Ten seconds to end of dirt.

Heavy sifting begin.

Cut.

APPLAUSE

Are you OK, Norman? Yeah. Yeah.

You pulled your leg
in appropriately, that was...

Right. Good. Fantastic.
That was a nice take.

That was a really nice take.

Come down there.
Bring it down there, please.

This is the best one we've had.

This image of this...

Yeah, is that...
That's really, really great.

Wow.

Can you see that?

It's really stunning.

This means you're happy?

It's the first time
I've seen it, yeah.

Yeah.

It was...

Where it's going...

I'm sorry.

HUBBUB

CHORAL MUSIC

This is it. I know.

After all these years.

I can't believe we're
actually in the building.

Yeah, exactly.

But there's little things popping
up across from those panels.

It is very effective, I must say.

And the light is spectacular.

Wow!

I think after you.

THEY LAUGH

Hello. Hi. It's good to see you.

Wow. This is amazing. It is.

Sorry. No, I'm exactly the same!

Exactly the same.

It's an exceptionally
powerful piece.

Kira did so much work for this.
Yeah.

It's unbelievable
what she did. Kira...

Directed it! Thank you.

The whole idea of this is
that you're not looking at

a physical thing, you are
inside these people's minds,

and that's what
they're experiencing.

I'm looking forward
to seeing it from a distance.

That's the one thing,
isn't it? Yeah.

I just want to actually
reverse back.

And here I am
in this amazing cathedral.

I'm going to cry right now, I think.

Sorry.
But it's just overwhelming.

It's really overwhelming to see
faith and intensity and technology,

and all of these things that
human beings work with, you know?

And when you put those together,
you get something that is larger

and greater than the whole.

When's the second one coming?

Oh, Madam Mary is on the way.

Is she? She's on the way.
Oh, I'm so glad.

Well, that won't be until next year.
No, no, of course not.

Eight years since I retired.

But it's here.
All things come when they're ready.

And Mary's on her way, I'm told.

Yes, we've done a lot
of shooting with Mary.

To bring a work of this quality
into this great cathedral

adds a dimension,
I think, to the cathedral,

but it also adds
a dimension to the work.

You are immediately reminded
of all the great works of art

that have dealt with those themes,
and you think of yourself

in the great cathedrals of Europe.

I walked right the way
down the aisle, and from back there,

it's quite sensational.
You won't have seen it yet.

You went all the way
in the back to see it?

It was phenomenal.
I haven't done that yet.

I think the view there...

It's the balance
between the backlight

from the windows and this,
it's totally different.

Right.
It just sinks into the wall.

The piece is timeless.
Yes. Thank you.

Well, here I am at the Grand Palais,
and this is an extraordinary place.

It's the biggest thing
that was ever made at that time.

I mean, it's phenomenal.

The artist? Oh! It's so nice
to meet you. How are you?

I'm good, dear. How about you?

Very good.
You're here again?

Yeah, it's always better
to see it twice.

People here were really great.

It was a lot of work for them,
because we demanded a lot.

DOG BARKS

HE GASPS

WATER FLOWS, PEOPLE SCREAM

INSECTS CHIRP

OK, so this is my study
where I live, in a way,

through art.

And so many of these things are
so meaningful for me, really.

I mean, it's really...

This is really my deep,
deep centre of my life, right here.

And of course, most people don't
know that you're doing something...

Most people are up here,
and they just think they're

doing this here and this there.

And in the meantime,
there's a place right in your gut

that you don't really know
you even have.

I mean, that's not even...

You know, it's just...

And you don't realise that.

All of these things that
I've done over the years

have all come through me, obviously.

It's like a kind of a river.
It's kind of this moving river.

So all of those things come
into you in a very complicated way.

All of this stuff is...
I'm touching all of these people,

all these Sufi masters,
and all sorts of stuff is happening

all in this place,
this whole area right here.

Bill had always had an idea
to do a predella.

What was the predella that you used?

Oh...

Catherine...

Catherine's Room.

Yeah, but it was Catherine's Room,
by Catherine of Siena.

There was an icon of her,
and then on the bottom,

I think it was five panels... Yes.
..of Catherine of Siena praying

in different praying positions,
which was kind of interesting,

but there were different times
of day and different activities

that showed different
parts of her life.

This could be different,
because we had the kind of shape

of the altar, in a way.

I especially love that red sky.
Yeah.

And this is...

This is really coming together.

Here is the predella section.

So on these shots,
I got rid of all of the dropouts

from the video tape.

But you've still got some
of the crumbiness, which is good.

And then this is death right here.

So we're dissolving through here,
and now we're out,

and the camera kind of backs up.

Oh! I see.
And starts to retrace.

Oh, I see. Yeah, I got you.

The last bit of the thorns
are really great.

Yes.
You can see them really...

I mean, see what I have
happening here. OK.

This is exciting.

We are home!
There it is.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Wow. It's spectacular. Look.

That is going to be incredible.

Yeah.

Whoa.

It is so beautiful.

In this context, oh, my God.

Wow.

The whole thing simmers.

Yeah, it's like moving, connected,
comes back, and then goes again

one more time.

It took a long, long, long,
long time

to actually get these things
connected,

and do it in a certain way,
and so that was...

Now to come back here, and come back
into St Paul's,

and see what's happening, and...

It's just overwhelming. It is...

Kira and I are just beside
ourselves for what we did,

and I don't know what to even say.

I can't even say it.

It's just...
It's just the feeling.

It's about feelings,
and, you know, what is that?

Why are we here?

Why are we all here?

That's what it is, you know?

So that will go on when I'm long...

All of us will be not here any more.

So that's a really amazing thing.

ORGAN MUSIC PLAYS

APPLAUSE

Mary and the Martyrs are permanently
on display in St Paul's Cathedral.

The exhibition at the Royal Academy
continues until the 31st of March.