All language subtitles for Rose.West.Born.Evil.2021.WEBRip.x264-ION10

"Rosemary Pauline West,

on each of the ten
counts of murder,

the sentence is one
of life imprisonment."

Throughout her trial, Rose West
maintained she was innocent.

It turned out that
she was just 17

when she began the most
sadistic killing spree.

Britain has ever witnessed.

She wanted to hurt women
as much as she could.

The more macabre
nature of this torture

got progressively worse,

with one killing
following another.

But how did this local
housewife become one

of the most depraved
killers in history?

Could Rose's childhood have
transformed her into a killer?

Rose was definitely in
charge in the West household.

There was no denying that.

We'll speak to the people
who knew her best...

You could hear the
screams and the shouts

and it was awful to hear.

And discover a history
of mental illness...

She went into a little
bubble of her own.

Brutal therapies...

The seizures would be violent.

She would've not found
solace in the outside world.

And uncover
generations of abuse.

He'd actually been grooming
her from quite a young age.

There's no doubt that he
altered his daughter Rose.

Was Rose West raised
to become a killer

or was she born evil?

1970 marks a new bohemian
era for Great Britain.

As glam rock topped the
charts, the Brits adopted

this new, free-spirited,
permissive lifestyle.

And, for 16-year-old
Rosemary Letts,

life couldn't be better.

She's moved in
with her new lover,

29-year-old Fred;

His stepdaughter, Charmaine;

And daughter, Anne Marie.

And, nine months later,
the couple introduce

baby Heather to the world.

Rose is living in a kind of
fairy-tale dream, at this point.

She's got this little family

and she has this older chap
who's going to take care of her.

So things were looking
quite bright, at this point.

And then, Fred goes to prison

and her world comes
crashing down.

Rose learnt the hard way

that the man of her
dreams was a petty thief.

Fred was a kleptomaniac.

If anything wasn't actually
nailed down, he would take it

and so he was often
in and out of prison.

Fred was sentenced to
ten months in jail,

leaving Rose all alone

to raise baby Heather,
Anne Marie, and Charmaine.

She was actually
living in squalor

with three small
children, unable to cope.

This wasn't the life
that Rose had dreamed of.

This wasn't what
she'd bargained for.

This fairy tale
wasn't working out.

Just as Rose was learning
a lot about Fred's past,

he would learn about hers.

Years after the young girl

went missing, her
remains were uncovered,

buried under a kitchen floor.

In the summer of 1971,

17-year-old Rose murders
her first victim...

Eight-year-old Charmaine.

In Gloucester's Midland Road,

she did not get on
with her stepmother.

She told Rose,
"You're not my mother.

You can't do this.

You can't say that to me,"

and Rose would lash out.

She just picked up
anything that was to hand

and would hit, jab, do whatever.

And then, she would tie her
to the bed and whip her.

After one brutal outburst,
Rose kills Charmaine.

- Rosemary West has spent

her first night
behind prison bars.

Rosemary West has been charged
with ten counts of murder.

She remains in custody,

where she denies
all involvement.

Today, Rosemary
West's solicitor told

how she's in severe shock.

In her cell at
Pucklechurch Remand Centre,

Rosemary West's
reaction was simple...

"I'm innocent," she
told her lawyer.

Okay.

I think that Rose

was constructed of
her life experiences.

She had a reality that she
hadn't been able to confront

since her childhood,

the childhood that
was stolen from her.

To understand how
Rose crossed the line

from motherhood to murder,

we must go back to a time
before she was even born.

Rosemary Pauline Letts grew
up in beautiful North Devon.

Her father, Bill
Letts, was in the Navy

and was often away
for months on end,

leaving her mother, Daisy, at
home to raise the children.

My name is Gill and I
grew up, as a child,

next door to the Letts family.

They lived in a semi-detached

and we were right next to
them, really, you know?

It was fantastic
growing up in Northam.

All the men, they all had jobs,

and the women were
just housewives,

bringing up the children,
all very house-proud.

Lovely, brand-new
houses, nice gardens.

A wonderful place to grow up in.

It seemed like
summer was forever.

Maybe you remember
the good times.

During the early 1950s,
Britain was kind of optimistic.

It was coming out of a war.

It had managed to get a
National Health Service

and various other
things, however,

there was a great
deal of poverty

and you had an awful
lot of ex-servicemen

coming into the community,

ill-fitted to settle
into normal life.

Whilst pregnant with Rose,

Daisy was suffering from
severe prenatal depression,

so Bill had to leave the Navy

and struggled with
the domestic duties

when settling into
civilian life.

Bill Letts could
best be described

as brutal, violent,
impossible to like.

He bullied, intimidated,
and, indeed, in the end,

terrified his wife, Daisy.

You could hear the screams
and the shouts and banging

and it was awful to hear.

Everybody talked about
it on the estate.

Daisy's teeth would chatter,
she would be so frightened,

and the neighbors
would say that she

would come round crying
and ask for help.

I think, on one occasion,

my mother did bring
social services,

but nothing was
ever done about it.

As the pregnancy progressed,

Daisy sank into a
deeper depression

and sought professional help.

The depression is so severe
that it's recommended

that she consider ECT,
convulsive therapy.

Very dramatic therapy, indeed,

involving electrodes
attached to the skull,

you know, so-called
shock therapy.

Electroconvulsive
therapy was something

that was kind of first used
in the '40s and in the '50s,

but it was very crude.

The point about ECT is it
has to produce a seizure.

Basically, the level of
seizure, in Daisy's day,

was that where
they'd break teeth,

they would bite
through their tongues,

they would break bones.

There was so much
amnesia following it,

they wouldn't know which side
of the bus stop to stand at.

It was kind of
like a crude weapon

that should only ever be used
in very severe depression.

So Rose would've felt some
of the effects of the ECT

and the seizures
that were caused

and they would be violent.

And it was only, I think,
the day before Rose was born

that she had her
last lot of ECT.

I recall the day she came
home with her shaven head,

carrying baby Rose,

and I remember going
to my mum, saying,

"God, what's happened
to Mrs. Letts?

She's got no hair!"

In my view, it could
very well be argued that.

Rose's neurological development

will have been retarded,
to some degree,

by the ECT procedures
that her mother underwent.

To have ECT late in
the gestation period,

this often is the more
sophisticated parts

of the brain development,
the inhibitory parts,

the parts that give
us a conscience,

that give us empathy,

that stop us, basically,
from doing heinous acts.

Rosemary Pauline Letts was born
on the 29th of November 1953.

Rose was a very pretty baby,

lovely hair and
lovely olive skin.

But baby Rose was remembered

for more than her
striking features.

I remember seeing
little Rose sitting

in her pram in the garden.

You never heard much from
her and she used to do

all this rocking
back and forwards

and, you know, she'd be
sat there and, you know...

I don't know what
that was all about.

It was a strange thing
for a kid to do, really,

wasn't it?

Rose engaged in stereotypies,

basically moving her
head, rocking her head.

These things will generate
endorphins in the body.

They will soothe the person.

The rocking that you see in Rose

would often be seen in
children that have been abused,

where they're getting comfort
from this repeated movement.

She would've not found
solace in the outside world

and she would turn in
on this kind of behavior

to change her biochemistry,
to make her feel okay.

Despite the hostile household,

Daisy and Bill continued
to have more children.

But as the family grew, so did
Bill's resentment towards them.

It's impossible to convey
just how dysfunctional

the Letts family was.

Well, the Letts
family didn't fit

into the community there at all.

The children never played out.

You have a father,
in Bill Letts,

who is telling you to behave
properly at all times.

Swear words are not used.

He doesn't use foul language,

but he's insisting that
everything's clean.

If you sit at the table,
no one says anything.

I mean, proper.

Everything has to
be done correctly.

This is a man who finally
found himself in the navy,

as, "Oh, I fit in now.

I haven't fitted in
before, but I now fit in.

I know where I am."

Having been forced
to leave the navy,

Bill had lost his status
and sense of self-worth,

something he would
try and regain at home

by using violence.

Letts was fierce
and intimidating.

You have children who were
made to clean the carpet

with toothbrushes, you know.

It's an extraordinary household.

It's unlike anything you
could possibly imagine.

You have this tyrant of a
father telling them what to do.

You have a mother
who's intimidated

to clean everything
all the time.

The Letts household
was basically some kind

of bizarre, punitive
military camp.

It was never really a
childlike atmosphere.

It was always an
atmosphere of fear.

Every day, there was shouting,
bawling, and smacking and...

He always walked
around with a beret,

in like a military sort of walk

with his long mac
thing, you know?

And the kids used to
walk a bit like that.

He was a bit
regimented with them.

Letts was... and there's
no other word for it...

A monster.

From a very early age,

Rose would've seen the
elder children's fears.

She had a childhood
which, really,

she retracted from the world.

She went into a little
bubble of her own,

creating her own life,
hiding in the corner,

sitting at the back of the
class in primary school,

playing with her own dolls,
removed from the world.

To avoid any beatings at
the hand of her father,

Rose would become
reclusive and disengaged.

She had these very winsome ways.

So, while he'd
come home and shout

and hit most of
the other children,

if they hadn't
done their chores,

he would let Rosie off.

Bill would exploit
Rose's passive demeanor.

Bill had a hidden agenda.

He was someone who had
pedophilic tendencies.

He was thinking that that
vulnerability that Rose had

would make her someone
who could be coerced

into sexual activity.

He'd actually been grooming
her from quite a young age.

Rosie was the one
that was vulnerable.

She wasthe one that wasn't
really going to say anything.

When Bill inflicted
sexual abuse on Rose,

he was limiting her development.

She was learning
the wrong skills

and the wrong
motivations for life.

She was on a path that,
almost certainly, would lead

to her being part of abusive
relations in the future,

and even an instigator
of abusive relations.

Aged 15,

years of incest abuse

had normalized sex for Rose.

She had earnt a reputation
as a nymphomaniac

amongst the local older men.

Rose's engagement
with Bill Letts

at an early stage

meant that she had a model
in her head of the older man,

which she found normal,

which she could relate to.

One man who had heard

about this highly
sexualized teenager

was 29-year-old Fred West.

Fred lived near Rose

and he had probably
heard her name mentioned

because I think she was
getting quite infamous

at this time locally.

I'm pretty sure that Fred
targeted Rose quite early on.

She was voluptuous.

She was obviously out
there, in every sense.

I think Fred knew that.

Fred was a wily man,
knew how to exploit.

She was at the bus
station in Cheltenham

when this chap in this
mac shuffled over.

He'd got like, she said,
"Ganky green teeth."

He was quite scruffy, but
he had a good line in chat

and she said he could charm
the birds off the trees,

so, when they were going home
on the bus, he sat next to her

and then, they discovered
they had lots in common,

like they both had
mothers called Daisy,

they both lived close by,

that they both
had committed incest.

When Fred started to talk about
things of a sexual nature,

to do with like bondage, S&M,
all the stuff that he was into,

then, any other girl
would've run off,

but Rose didn't.

She stayed

because that was kind of quite
a normal thing that she knew of.

I think Fred sensed, almost
in an animalistic way,

that, "Here's someone who could
help me do what I want to do."

Having left his estranged
wife, Rena Costello,

Fred invited Rose to move
into 25 Midland Road,

along with his
daughter, Anne Marie;

And stepdaughter, Charmaine.

Rose made a leap into
what was very much

the deep end of relationships.

So she actually did move out
of the father's household,

stepping into Fred West's life,

looking after his
two current children.

Just weeks after they welcomed
their first child together,

Fred was jailed for theft

and Rose was left alone to
raise the three children...

Baby Heather, Anne
Marie, and Charmaine.

Charmaine had always been
defiant and stood up to Rose.

Rose felt very challenged by her

and she couldn't cope
and she would lash out.

It was almost like, at times,

losing touch with reality,
she was so enraged, like Bill.

And then, she would

tie her to the bed, her
legs and arms outstretched,

and whip her, just lash her.

It's just a nightmare.

Charmaine absolutely
refused to break down.

She refused to cry
and that irked Rose,

that she couldn't get
the better of her.

The fact that Fred had baggage
from previous relationships

was highly resented by Rose,

who had a very simple
view of things.

Her vision of her and Fred

having a wonderful life together

did not include previous
relationship children.

And, when Charmaine would
not abide by the rules,

Rose killed her.

I think Rose,

with the stress and luggage
that she was carrying

and the anger that
she had within her,

she was capable of
killing Charmaine.

She applied the same
kind of draconian regime

that she'd witnessed
with Bill Letts

in her own house.

I'm not saying that she
would've planned to murder her,

but she might have just beaten
the living daylights out of her.

It is believed that Rose

hid Charmaine's body
in the coal cellar

and that Fred buried the body
beneath the kitchen floor

when he was released from jail.

Charmaine's mother, Rena,

came around, seeking out
where Charmaine had gone.

Rena was becoming a problem

and, in Fred's
mind, she had to go.

After strangling Rena, Fred
buried her dismembered body

in a field near
his childhood home.

But this was not the first
time Fred had committed murder.

He has then told Rose
about Anna McFall

and the child that
Anna was having

and where they're buried.

Three years before meeting Rose,

Fred murdered his
18-year-old mistress

and their unborn child to avoid
his wife Rena finding out.

So, now, they have
this bond between them.

They've got a hold
over each other

and that won't break until many,
many years and murders later.

Fred West had a
dysfunctional upbringing

by his parents,
Walter and Daisy,

in a remote part
of the countryside,

15 miles outside of Gloucester.

I was the authorized
biographer of Frederick West,

given his papers by
the officials listed

at the supreme court.

The first time I ever heard
Frederick West's voice

was when I listened
to the first tape,

describing, in a little
singsong Herefordshire accent,

what had been happening.

Important point to remember
about Fred's childhood

was that he came from
an extraordinarily

incestuous household.

Fred himself talked about
it in his police interviews.

Daisy took Fred to bed
and initiated him into sex

at a very early age.

Fred told the authorities his
father had had sex with animals

and there's no
question his father

persuaded Fred to
have sex with animals,

particularly, sheep.

It wasn't even surprising.

Fred also witnessed his father

having sex with young girls,

but he was also well aware that
his father wouldn't hesitate

to hurt a young girl that
didn't do what he wanted.

They lived in a world which
was remote from convention.

They did what they wanted

and this was Walter
West's universe.

He commanded it.

What Daisy did... "If
you want to kill a pig,

we'll hang it up in the kitchen.

It'll bleed onto the floor."

This was not anything like
a suburban upbringing.

It was completely
opposite of that.

Fred then took those
habits and translated them

into an urban environment,
Gloucester itself.

He was still, really, a
farm laborer at heart.

Everybody I ever talked
to about Fred West

said the same thing... "You'd
never have believed it."

He was just... Well, he
was just commonplace.

He was a little
commonplace little man.

But one person who always knew
exactly what Fred was like

was Rose.

Rose knew from
the very beginning

and she also knew how
to press his buttons.

As soon as Rose turned
18, they got married.

After the birth of
their second child,

they bought their
first home and moved

into 25 Cromwell
Street in Gloucester,

along with daughters
Heather and Anne Marie.

Owning their own home,

particularly Rose,
at such a young age,

was a huge thing for her

and, of course, she
was really pleased

to be moving into
25 Cromwell Street.

I mean, Rose, finally,
at 25 Cromwell Street,

gets her own domain and
she treats it as her domain

and she rules it
with a rod of iron.

She rules her own children
even more fiercely

than Bill intimidated
her as a child.

To help pay the way
with the mortgage,

the upstairs were
turned into bedsits

and they would let them to
young sort of transient people.

I was actually a resident
at 25 Cromwell Street,

with Rosemary and Fred being
my landlord and landlady.

I wasn't working while I was
living there, or studying.

I'd just walked out
of home when I was 16.

I was just a runaway.

I attended St
James Junior School

with Anne Marie
in the year below,

so I knew them quite well.

I'd seen Rose previously
picking Anne Marie up.

I never really kind of
put two and two together

as Rose West being
her stepmother

because she didn't really
look much different

in the way that she dressed.

Schoolgirl-type sort of clothes
with skirts and trainers.

Not what you would expect
for somebody that's a mother,

more somebody that was just
going on to high school.

I bumped into Anne Marie in town

and Anne Marie was talking to
me about her parents had a room.

So I went to the
café to meet them

and there was Fred and Rose.

Rose was a very forward person.

She said it as it
was and she seemed

to be the dominant person
in the relationship.

Fred wasn't passive, but Fred
was quiet, compared to Rose.

He was just sort of
like saying, you know,

"It's your choice, if you
want to come and have a look,"

whereas Rose was, "This is
the rules and regulations,"

so there was a lot of difference
between the two of them.

From what I can remember, I
moved in about a week later.

I'd never lived away from
home before, so, to me,

it was a room that I could
rent and be my own person.

It was a very clean house.

It always smelt fresh.

It smelt of bleach
most of the time

and everywhere I went,
it was very clean.

Jayne soon began to realize

that Fred and Rose were
no ordinary couple.

The doorbell went, but,

it lit up a red light
above the living room door.

And I jokingly said,

"Oh, is this the
red light district?"

And then Fred come walking
in from the other side

and went through.

That's how I found out that
she was having other men in.

Rose used her insatiable
appetite for sex to make money,

working as a prostitute
out of the family home,

something which Fred encouraged.

This was somewhere
where they had space,

where they could
invest, if you like,

in their bizarre activities,
for sex to become

something that Rose could
indulge in endlessly.

I...

I kind of was a bit
confused over it.

Again, I was only 16 and naive,

so why does a woman
want other men in?

Maybe if that's how they
fulfill their relationship,

that's their choice.

It gave them the
chance, as it were,

to partition their lives, to
be able to control elements,

for Fred to engage in
voyeuristic activity

with Rose's sex activity.

Yes, she was charging
money, but this was more

about Fred watching and
peering through spy holes

that he made in all
the doors and walls.

He had an intercom
system built, as well,

so, wherever he was,
he could listen.

He loved watching Rose,

particularly,
performing sexually.

He would record it as well.

He was an archetypal voyeur.

He took great pleasure
in having sex with Rose

after she'd had sex
with somebody else.

That was one of the things
that really turned Fred on.

Sometimes he would coat himself

in the sperm of her clients,

that he'd take from condoms,

so he felt he was breeding
something like a master race.

It was just crazy stuff

and Rose went along
with those delusions,

so they really were caught
up in a folie à deux.

I'm one of the few people who
actually saw the videotapes

that Fred made of Rose

doing various extraordinary
sexual things.

Absolutely revolting.

She was actually
performing for Fred,

inserting things into herself,

showing the knickers that
she'd brought back and used

and kept in jars on the
mantelpiece in her room.

She was showing how
enthusiastic she was.

And Fred very seldom
appeared himself.

He occasionally would
pop his head round,

but he was always
behind the camera

and Rose was always
in front of it.

And that played out

throughout their
entire marriage.

I've used the phrase before

and I mean it,
still, to this day...

She was, in every sense,
the sorcerer's apprentice.

The Wests were
pushing boundaries,

experimenting with fetishes.

She liked... It's no secret.

Fred himself talked about
it in his police interviews,

that Rose liked rough sex.

She liked hard.

She didn't like any chatting up.

She liked fierceness.

But Rose wanted
more, and would turn

to the increasingly
popular classified adverts

to appease her sexual desires.

Here you have the development
of strong paraphilias...

Rose becoming exhibitionist
and Fred becoming a voyeur

and getting visions
of pornographic films

and other kind of things.

He was full of ideas,
that were often macabre.

So, what you'd got was this
extraordinary conjunction.

Of a highly
sexualized young woman

and a very manipulative man.

Okay, so does she
marry her father?

Is West really Bill Letts?

It's possible. There's
an element of it.

Not complete, of course.

It's too glib.

But there is an element there.

There's an element of
Fred targeting Rose

and then, Rose targeting Fred.

Outside of Cromwell Street,

Rose was keen to
portray a normal life,

although her obsession with sex
was known amongst the locals.

Rose West was known as, you
know, basically, a slut,

but she liked her men.

She was known for,
you know, flashing

or trying to show herself off
and things like that, yeah.

She'd always like to touch you
or she could be quite, you know.

She liked to let you
know she liked you.

I didn't feel
comfortable around her.

I couldn't wait to
get away from her.

You just knew there
was something a bit

seedy about her, you know?

My mum and dad used to run
the St Peters Social Club

and, of course,
Fred and Rose West

used to go there.

Rose used to turn
up to the events

like, you know, with the
cowboy hat, the guns,

and everything was so hypo,
you know, around her table.

She had a temper on her.

Even in the club,

she'd shout at the kids
and tell them to sit down.

She was, you know, like a sergeant
major with them, you know?

Sometimes it could
be uncomfortable

seeing her snap and
shout at the kids,

but, you know, they
knew their place.

When she said something,
they knew and they sat there,

you know, and they
toed the line.

When Rose hit the
dance floor, you know,

she was like flirty-dancing,
you know, sexy-dancing.

Fred was always shy.

He'd smile.

Rose would always
keep an eye on Fred...

Where he was going, who
he was talking to...

And she always watched
him and she was the boss.

She was probably trying
to be someone she wasn't

when she was on the dance floor.

You know, that was her
de-stressor kind of thing,

trying to convince herself

she was a normal person,
I suppose, you know?

But this new confidence,

both inside and outside
of Cromwell Street,

was a far cry from
Rose as a child.

who struggled,

socially and academically.

When Rose started school,
her sort of inabilities

with language, understanding;

Thumb-sucking... A lot
of the stereotypies...

Became more obvious,

contrasted with all
the other children.

There's no doubt that Rose was
not a particularly bright child.

She was slow to pick up
the obvious things...

Reading, writing,
and arithmetic.

In these very early days,
the way of treating children

who were not showing signs
of good development was

to place them in the corner,

place a dunce's
cap on their head,

make them face the wall,
basically, to single them out

and say, "Don't do that.

Improve. Look,

you're going to be
outside of society,

if you don't."

The fact that the
British education system

actually adopted
a dunce's cap...

This pointed cone that
you placed on the head

as the child was isolated
and faced the wall...

Was a bizarre,
primitive practice.

This was kind of hand-me-down
from bizarre religious beliefs

that, somehow or
other, the dunce's cap

was a conduit for
God's intelligence.

Complete nonsense and
the effect on children

was like secondary labeling.

You know, you were being
labeled as being stupid,

but then, you could
take on that label

and just start acting
stupid with full license

because that's the
role they've given you.

At school, Rose reverted
back to what she knew...

Being a self-absorbed recluse.

That was her way of surviving

an environment that
she didn't understand.

She was never allowed to play,
in the conventional sense,

with other children,

except in a school
form environment.

The only socialization she
got was within the house.

Rose struggled academically
and was held back a year,

where she gained confidence
being the eldest child in class.

Both her parents now had jobs,
meaning Rose was often left

in charge of her
younger brothers.

She had always taken a
great interest in dolls

and then, treats her
two younger brothers

as the equivalent of dolls.

She would bathe them.

She would put them to bed.

She would dress them.

Those two younger brothers
were Rose's... playthings.

As Rose matured,

she learnt to use violence
to protect her brothers.

Rose began to identify with Bill

and think of herself
being someone

who was strong and could
create fear in others

and this actually led

to Rose going out and
bullying other children.

Rose reached puberty before
other kids in her class

and, from being a meek,
timid girl who was bullied,

she became this big,
strong girl who could

knock people about, and she did,

because she would protect
her younger brothers,

who were, you know,
skinny little chaps.

When her brothers were attacked,

Rose would go after them.

Suddenly, the bullied turns
round and bullies back.

She was not going to
have her brothers hurt

and she would lump
them, as they called it.

So you've got this
interesting dichotomy

between sexuality at one point;

And violence,
bullying, at another.

Rose would've felt
powerful from that.

She would've felt
in control herself,

where she'd always
felt out of control.

So, now, she has power.

Now, she's enjoying that.

Now, she's going to
go out and do this.

So this makes quite
a dangerous stage

for the next part
of the journey,

where she meets Fred West.

Rose gained confidence
through sex and violence,

passions amplified by her
relationship with Fred,

so they wanted somewhere

to combine both
of these desires.

This is where Fred goes
on to extend the house

and to develop the basement.

Fred was very proud
of his cellar.

I can remember, one day, going
through to peg the washing out

and Fred was out
in the back garden,

fiddling about, doing something.

I can't recall what it was.

He said, "Oh, I've repainted
the cellar downstairs.

Do you want to have a look?"

I said, "What's a cellar?"

He said, "It's where the
children go to play."

I said, "Okay."

And I'm claustrophobic,

but I thought, "Well,
don't be rude."

And he took me down
into the cellar,

which was a horrible,
dark, dank place.

In the lower basement area,

he decided he was going
to have a torture chamber.

They both shared
this sadistic view

of subjecting human beings
to horrific circumstances.

Fred was becoming a
creative psychopath.

His obsession on all
things gynecological

was drawing him into some very,
very sadistic and bizarre ideas.

Despite Rose being married
and owning her own home,

her father Bill was still
firmly rooted in her life.

There was still a
sexual relationship

between Rose and
her father, Bill.

At one point, he was
living in a caravan

at the bottom of
Cromwell Street.

I found Bill a bit

scary, I think, is the
easiest way of describing him.

He kind of like was
looking through me and...

How do you explain it?

Like sizing me up and...

All I know is he sat with
his hand under the table,

which kind of made me
feel a bit at unease.

He was very sort of
concentrating on me.

He did have a look in his
eyes that wasn't very nice.

I wouldn't like to
guess, to be fair,

what Bill was doing
under that table.

I think Rose was always
fascinated by her father.

They couldn't stay apart.

They were, in a sense,
inextricably linked

and you couldn't break that.

I mean, I've always found
it quite extraordinary,

how Rose continued to have sex
with her father into adulthood.

Whether she got any sexual
satisfaction from it,

I don't know.

And you just get into
this revolting quagmire

of abuse through the
generations, you know.

That sense, of a father's right

to have sex with
his own children

is a thread that runs
through the story

of Rosemary Letts, as she
was; And Frederick West.

Bill remained ever
present in Rose's life

and, with Fred's
blessing, he continued

his sexual relationship
with his daughter.

But what was it about
Bill's upbringing

that made him become a
violent and incestuous father?

Young Bill Letts
was an only child.

His mother was a
local district nurse.

She was very revered
in the community.

His father came back

from fighting in
the First World War.

When Bill came along,

his father was not
particularly happy about it.

His father didn't want him

and told him that
he wasn't wanted,

that he was a mistake,

which was an awful thing
to say to a young boy.

Bill Letts' mother, Bertha,

overcompensated for the
neglect by his father, William,

so Bill was mollycoddled
to the extreme.

My mum went to school
with Bill Letts.

His mother used to
bring him to school,

be there to meet
him, take him home.

His mother would always
accompany him to school

and brush his hair as soon
as she took his cap off.

I mean, he must've
been about 11,

not, like, a little three-,
four-year-old, you know?

Because of Bertha's
mollycoddling of her son,

he really had very few,
if any, friends at all,

so he was very isolated.

We see aspects of that
again in Rose's childhood.

He was another one that he
wasn't allowed out, either.

And he was very quiet
at school, as well,

much like his own children were.

I think it's a perfectly
fair assumption to say

that Bill Letts, as a child,
was intimidated a good deal

and I think he responded
to that intimidation...

Bullying, if you like...

By responding with
equal violence himself,

as soon as he became an adult.

There were strong
rumors in the community.

Parents told their
children to keep away

from old William Letts

because he couldn't be
trusted near children.

So, whether Bill was abused
or not, we don't know,

but, of course, there
is a chance, you know.

Bill's father, William,

was known to have an
extremely high sex drive,

something that would
span generations,

as both Bill and Rose inherited
an insatiable appetite for sex.

Well, he certainly
was a strange man.

I never liked the
look of him, anyway.

I think my mum
called him a gigolo.

Whatever that might
mean, I don't know.

Rather than having a job,

he seemed to flit round
from woman to woman,

like as a butler-cum-gigolo.

It was not only a high sex drive

that Bill and Rose
inherited from William.

They would also inherit
an obsession for cleaning.

William Letts was absolutely
obsessed with cleanliness,

bleaching the house
top to bottom,

nothing could be out of place,
and Bill had to follow suit.

And then, unfortunately,

Bill did follow suit,
to the Nth degree,

and that would carry
on into his marriage.

In 1942, Bill married Daisy.

A year later, they moved
into their new council home,

on Morwenna Park Road
in Northam, Devon.

Bill and Daisy would go
on to have seven children,

Rose being the fifth to arrive.

But Bill was hiding
a secret diagnosis

that would cause his
paranoia to intensify.

Bill was said to have
severe psychotic episodes.

He had been diagnosed as
a paranoid schizophrenic

when he was a teenager

and that had never been
disclosed to the family

and he remained untreated.

He would think people
were talking about him

and have a go at his
wife all the time.

If she was even talking
to the neighbors,

he would hit her
and pull her in.

The police were called.
Nothing happened.

He seemed to be
very OCD, as well...

Always on at his wife,
always on at the children,

"Keep the place
clean," you know?

And he would come home
and shout and thrash them.

In fear of violence from Bill,

Daisy would also
develop an obsession

for keeping everything clean.

Cleanliness, that was
the main thing with her.

She used to scrub, scrub, scrub.

The backyard, you know,
she'd be out there

scrubbing that with a
hosepipe and bleach.

Daisy's obsession
became so intense

that the children
were not allowed out,

in case they came home dirty.

But, on one occasion,

Rose's older sister
decided to go out to play.

Rose's oldest sister was
a little bit rebellious

and I recall one time
when we took her out

for the afternoon,

go swimming and ride
the horses out there

and, I mean, we used to
get filthy out there,

really, rolling around.

She really got so excited,
she was almost manic.

She'd laugh and giggle
and prance around.

But this rare, fun-filled
day would come at a price.

When she got home,
stinking of horses,

that's when she got
this hell of a beating.

Daisy was hosing her
down in the garden.

She was screaming and screaming,

stripped naked, being hosed down

with cold water, obviously.

Oh, it was awful to hear.

And that's when my
mother intervened

and then she took her in.

My mum, she really went onto me.

She said, "Don't ever
take her out again

because you've caused that
girl to have a hiding.

She gets enough
of that, anyway."

Yes, Daisy did shout and
hit the children, as well,

but I think she was trying very
hard to keep everything tidy,

just so, and
bleaching everything

so that he wouldn't come home

and have one of these terrible
rages where he would hit them.

He would do things
like spoil the food

and tip the dustbin out
all across the kitchen.

So the woman had a very,
very hard time with him.

He bullied, intimidated,
and, indeed, in the end,

terrified his wife, Daisy.

That awful, worst
kind of bully...

A coward, at one moment;

And then, vicious to those
who couldn't fight back.

Bill would put on this
very pleasant face

to most of the neighbors.

He was very charming.

So, of course, people
won't believe that.

So he has this kind of
friendly street angel;

And then, he's this
house devil face.

And, just like her father,

Rose developed an appetite
for coercive control

when she ventured
into adulthood.

Fred and Rose would drive
around Gloucestershire,

searching for girls to lure
back to 25 Cromwell Street.

They would get a babysitter
in and they would go out.

They pick up Caroline Owens,
who's hitchhiking home

and lives in the Forest of Dean.

Rose is sitting there.

She has a baby, she's pregnant,

and she's grooming this girlie,

like enticing her
to get into the car,

speaking in this lovely voice.

And also sitting
there with a baby,

which they both know is
going to make any young girl

feel quite sort
of safe with them.

I think both of them,
they're psychopaths

and they know how to charm,

so they can present
so well to people.

So, of course, Caroline gets in.

The couple charm
and coerce Caroline

into coming to live with
them as their in-house nanny.

But it's soon clear Rose
has an alternative agenda.

And they start their
sadistical games with her.

They started to
get heavy with her.

I think they would
barge into the bathroom

when she was in the bathroom.

She felt uncomfortable
with them.

They're both trying to invite
her in to have sex with them.

Rose didn't stop.

She wanted to kiss her,

Fred was egging them on,

so she got her stuff and went.

Caroline managed to escape.

But it was short-lived.

And then, they again coaxed her

when she was hitchhiking
on a later occasion.

They got her in
the car, beat her.

Fred had punched her
and quietened her,

so that Rose could do
what she wanted with her.

Rose scratched and brutalized
her in the back of the car.

When she got back
to Cromwell Street,

this time, it was a brutal
and tortuous regime.

She was being held
there and beaten

and she feared for her life.

Fred was actually
restraining her,

keeping her there for Rose.

He said he kidnapped
her for Rose.

Fred's behavior was sadism

and advising her that
he was going to beat her

and then, he meekly asserted
that he would have sex with her,

but she mustn't tell Rose.

Eventually, Caroline
Owens was able to escape

and, as a result of that,

her parents reported the
matter to the police.

They were taken to court
and Fred put his suit on,

presented well, they thought
he looked a reasonable chap.

And Rose was like
heavily pregnant

and telling them
that she was going to

have some kind of therapy
for her, you know, ways.

And the charges were reduced

because Caroline couldn't
face them in court.

A charge of rape was proffered,

but it was plea-bargained
down to a sexual assault

in a magistrates court.

They were both fined £25 and
had a rap on the knuckles.

I think their solicitor said,

"Well, you know,
they're a young couple.

They won't do it again,"

and, extraordinarily, the
magistrates bought that.

And the interesting thing
is that neither of them

were embarrassed about that,
either, particularly Rose,

because she was a
complete narcissist.

It meant nothing to her.

It was a kind of
abandonment, you know.

Somehow, they were
getting away with it.

They were given carte blanche,

so, the next time, they
were going to kill.

Nobody is going to escape
them, the next time,

to live to tell the tale.

With zero respect for the
law, Fred and Rose continued

using the same method
of driving around,

pursuing young,
vulnerable women,

often calling on their lodger
Jayne to babysit for them.

Looking after the younger ones,

I formed quite a
friendship with them.

They were dear little things.

It upsets me to think that I
was looking after their children

for them to be evil people.

Using the same ruse
of needing a nanny,

they lured 19-year-old
Lynda Gough back

to their cellar in
Cromwell Street.

They trussed her
up and killed her.

It was a horrendous murder.

And she was buried outside
by the bathroom area.

Rose immediately went
through her clothes

and put her clothes on.

She could just go and
kill this girl with Fred

and go and put the
girl's clothes on.

When Lynda's mother
came looking for her,

she witnessed Rose's
narcissism firsthand.

Lynda Gough's mother
came to find her daughter

and saw some of her clothes
blowing in the wind on the line

and Rose in her
slippers and cardigan.

And she was just, "Oh,
I never heard of her."

Well, of course
she had, you know.

The mother knew she was lying.

It was, in fact,
her lack of empathy

and her association
with Fred West

that led her to be a killer.

Within months of
killing Lynda Gough,

Fred and Rose struck again.

This time, they abducted
15-year-old Carol Ann Cooper.

She'd been having a night
out with her boyfriend

and they followed
her in the car,

picked her up when
she got off the bus,

took her back, and it
was a horrendous murder.

Over a frenzied period
spanning less than two years,

six young females had been
lured to 25 Cromwell Street,

where they were
tortured, murdered,

and buried beneath
the family home.

I think they were
totally out of control.

They became more and more
so as they got away with it.

This is fairly normal
for serial killers

who get a lot of pleasure

from protracted torture
and killing of others,

in that the next
one has to be more.

She was bound up with duct
tape and left her eyes,

so that she could see what
they were going to do to her.

The more macabre nature

of this torture got
progressively worse,

with one killing
following another.

Mummified and a straw was
poked through, up her nose,

so that they could keep
this young girl alive

while they tortured her.

Extreme bondage,
metal tubes, binding,

hanging people from the
ceiling, like pieces of meat.

More sadism, more
paraphernalia, more suffering.

Rose was known to use very
large vibrators on them,

you know, so huge that
they did massive damage.

It got worse and
worse and worse.

Anyone who saw any
of the pictures

of what happened
to those girls...

You know, the missing
bones, the kneecaps removed,

the hanging in the cellar,
the awful bindings with...

It just sends a shudder
down my spine, to this day.

Rose was very, very cruel.

She wanted to hurt women
as much as she could.

It was something in her.

It's almost like killing
a version of herself.

This may have been her way
of eradicating her past,

getting rid of all those
thoughts and vulnerabilities

that she had felt from
her early childhood.

She had no power.

She was oppressed, as she said.

It was her way of taking out her
revenge on these young girls.

And she was so cruel.

And Rose would not
have to search far

for the next victim...

Shirley Robinson,

one of the Wests' lodgers
at 25 Cromwell Street.

I made a very good
friend out of Shirley.

We'd cook a Pot Noodle together
and sit and talk for ages.

Her and Rose very much looked
like each other, so, sometimes,

I'd go into the kitchen,
take a quick look,

because Shirley would very
often be down in the kitchen.

I'd say, "Hi, Rose.

Oh, sorry, Shirley. It's you."

It was not only looks that
Shirley and Rose had in common.

I didn't realize that Shirley

was having a
relationship with Fred.

I found out at the end that
she'd got pregnant by Fred,

so I thought it was just one
of those things that happened.

As her and Rose were so
friendly, I didn't like

put the two and two
together because, obviously,

if Rose was having men in,

what's Fred doing to
other women?

- Today, Royale Robinson,

whose daughter Shirley Ann
was found in the garden,

along with her unborn child.

She was killed by Frederick
and Rosemary West.

I just thought,
"Maybe she's not able

to live in one
room with the baby,

so she's moved on and
found somewhere else."

Shirley's remains were
buried in the garden,

alongside her and
Fred's unborn baby.

To be told that Shirley
had left, Shirley had gone,

none of it, none of this,
made any sense, whatsoever.

Jayne had no idea she was
living in the same house

with two sadistic
serial killers.

Fred was just...

He was a gentleman.

He was very pleasant,
very polite.

He was constantly
working in the house.

Slap of paint here,
a bit of work there,

a bit of digging in the garden.

He was always there, very
early in the morning,

before everybody else.

Rose was generally
not a morning person.

She used to walk around
with her cardigan

and her trainer
socks and skirt on,

barking at the children...
Not speaking to them,

barking orders at them.

Anne Marie was scorned upon...

"You're not getting
breakfast fast enough."

You can't give them toast
without giving them a drink,

"you stupid..." so, very
demeaning to the children.

Rose was definitely in
charge in the West household.

There was no denying
that.

Of all the West children,

it was Rose's eldest
daughter, Heather,

who left a lasting impression.

Heather, quite a
switched-on little girl.

We'd sit and talk about
silly little things,

you know, hair and, "Will
you wear makeup later on

and what do you want
to do as a job?"

So she was just an
inquisitive little body.

But, one evening,
Jayne was woken up

by something that would
change her life forever.

Something disturbed me.

And, initially, I couldn't
quite make out what it was

and then, I realized
it was in the cellar.

I could hear Heather
screaming, "Stop it, Daddy!

Stop it, Daddy!"

And then, it seemed to stop

and then, it would happen again.

And this happened for
a few nights in a row.

A specialist search team
arrived at Cromwell Street

with a warrant to
search for Heather West.

I put the news on and the
first thing I saw was Heather.

I thought, "Oh, my gosh!

Heather's been killed."

In 1992,

15 years after Jayne left,

one of the children
reported to police

they'd been raped by Fred.

Five of the West children
were taken into care

whilst police investigated.

The following year,

social workers reported

that the West children had
claimed that Fred often joked

that Heather was buried
beneath the patio.

In 1994,

whilst investigating
Heather's whereabouts,

police obtained a search
warrant for 25 Cromwell Street

and, as Fred was led away,

he confessed to
Heather's murder.

The back garden of
25 Cromwell Street.

He'd never told his
wife what he'd done.

When I saw Rose at
Cheltenham Police Station,

she was really very, very upset

and it was almost a mantra that,

"It was that flipping
Fred West, you know.

What had he effing been doing?"

The first time I ever heard
Frederick West describing

how he dismembered
his daughter, Heather,

and stuck her in a
sack, bin bags...

"I couldn't get her in
the dustbin, so I thought,

'I'll cut her legs off.'"

Then, he cuts her head off.

It's unimaginable.

Officers who found
Heather's remains

found signs that
she was not alone.

When this story happened,

it was a huge shock to
the people of Gloucester.

The whole thing became a
bit of a circus, really,

as far as the press
and media interest.

It was moving so quickly,
there was so much happening,

there were so many developments,

in terms of bodies being found.

West had hinted that there were
further bodies to be discovered.

He led detectives
down to the cellar,

indicating where other
victims were hidden.

Human remains
found in the cellar

are carried away for
forensic examination.

Despite Fred claiming
all responsibility

and confessing where
the victims were buried,

police had sufficient evidence

to arrest Rose on
suspicion of murder.

When I visited Rose,

she was relaxed and
not kind of dumbstruck.

She did seem slightly
removed from it all.

She just... It's blocked out.

As her mother used to say, "She
held herself in as a child,"

and maybe that's
what she's doing.

That probably speaks volumes

about this curious
dichotomy in Rose's makeup.

You'd expect it would prompt
some strong need to unload,

but there was none of that.

The Crown Prosecution Service
collated enough evidence

to charge Rose with
ten counts of murder.

- Frederick West,

the builder accused
of mass murder,

just minutes away from a
reunion with his wife, Rosemary,

is driven into Gloucester
Magistrates Court.

We saw Fred and Rose brought up,

one by one, into the dock

and we were quite
surprised to see

just a very ordinary-looking,
plumpish, middle-aged woman.

She didn't appear to be upset,
disturbed, angry, indignant.

There was no real emotion
that I can recall.

The clear instructions were
that she said she was innocent.

If there was anything
had happened,

it was because of Fred.

And the whole time that
they sat in that court,

they deliberately were
not looking at each other,

not talking to each other.

Had they fallen out? Was
this a ruse, on their part?

They probably did
discuss the fact

about Fred taking the blame

and she would walk away from it.

She disowned him
in the witness box.

She just dropped him, end of.

Freddie forever...
That was over forever.

She wanted no more
to do with him.

There were clear signs
that she was saying,

"No, you've admitted
it, now go and rot."

- Frederick West was found dead

in his cell in
Winson Green Prison.

He was awaiting trial,
accused of murdering

12 women and girls.

Rosemary West in public
for the first time

since her husband was
found hanging in his cell

on New Year's Day.

Rose West was charged
with ten counts of murder.

She was remanded in custody
whilst she awaited trial.

I looked over the
top of the railings

and it was Rose West
and I thought, "Ooh!"

Sandra Gregory was jailed
for drug trafficking

and got to know
Rose in HMP Durham.

She swears a bit.

And she can foam a
little bit at the mouth

when she gets a bit
animated, but she'd say,

"They said that he killed
himself to protect me.

They don't know nothing.

And you know what the
ultimate murder is, Sandra?"

And I was like,
"No, Rose, I don't."

"Their own! He did it because
that's the ultimate murder!"

Why was it only fucking
Rose that's supposed to know

what he's doing in
that fucking cellar?

It had a locked door
on it, you know.

I never went down in
that fucking cellar!

"I'm up there,
feeding all the kids!"

And I said, "Oh, and
how many children

have you got, then, Rose?"

And she looked at me and said,

"Well, I used to have eight."

I was like, "Ooh!"

I didn't progress
that conversation.

In October 1995,

Rose West was to stand
trial for the ten murders.

Rose was denying involvement.

Those were my instructions,

so that was the story
that I would've accepted.

Therefore, professionally,
you have to deal

with the evidence
that seems to conflict

with what your client
is telling you.

I was astonished to
hear that Rosemary West

was going to give evidence.

Paul Cheston was the
senior court correspondent

for the Evening Standard

and attended every
day of the trial.

She went into the witness
box and immediately,

"I'm not to blame."

Fred did everything.

I had no idea what he was up to.

It was a complete mystery.

I was shocked and
horrified to find that

"members of my family were
being killed by my husband."

As soon as you saw
25 Cromwell Street

and saw how small it was,

and as the number of
bodies being found mounted,

you realized Fred was
not operating on his own.

Under cross-examination,
it soon became apparent

that Rose was not
telling the truth.

She'd snookered herself
in relation to Heather.

He had to kick her out
because she was a lesbian.

And then it turns out Rose
enjoyed lesbian relationships,

as well, and you think,

"Well, that's totally
inconsistent."

And then they'd seen her
around, they'd sent her money,

spoken to her on the phone.

Complete nonsense,

because Heather was
buried in the garden.

I could have sat there
and said, "Look, Rose,

you're lying through
your teeth to me.

You're totally false.

Why don't you get with it
and start admitting stuff?"

She said what was
convenient to say.

And that's how she dealt
with her evidence at court.

She remained very impassive
throughout the entire hearing,

giving very little away.

Survivor Caroline Owens
courageously spoke

about the horrific ordeal she
suffered before her escape.

Miss Owens claims
she was subjected to

further serious sexual assaults,

including being beaten
with a leather belt.

She told the court, "I
was scared to death."

She didn't appear to
be upset, disturbed.

I think it's possible that
she never really appreciated

the enormity of
what was going on.

But Rose would soon
show her violent side,

when the prosecution presented
the next key witness.

Rosemary West was in the
witness box for three days,

and was getting
progressively more tired.

And Brian Leveson,
as prosecutor,

cross-examined on a
whole range of subjects,

and to build up to a climax

about asking her
about Charmaine.

She was very subdued
about Charmaine.

She found it very
difficult to revisit that.

A neighbor from 25 Midland
Road had come forward.

She had witnessed
Rose's attitude

towards her first victim,

eight-year-old Charmaine,
25 years earlier.

A neighbor had
come into the house

and she was startled
to see Charmaine

standing on a
chair, stark naked,

bound with her hands
behind her back,

and Rosemary West
with a rolling pin

in an aggressive fashion.

And Brian Leveson pressed
and pressed and pressed,

and eventually she snapped
and shouted at him.

And that was the moment when
the jury could see what she was,

not a cuddly housewife,
mother of six,

but a short-tempered
woman who would react

with a flash of temper when
things do not go her way.

She came unstuck,
she didn't present as

a good witness in court.

We perhaps had tended
to want to think

that Rose would be the
passive person who was just

putting up with it.

The more evidence we
heard made us realize

that Rose was very much
an active participant,

far more active than we
ever could have imagined.

Rosemary West was
driven to court today

to hear the judge begin summing
up seven weeks of evidence,

the result of almost 100
statements from witnesses.

When the jury foreman read
out the verdict of guilty,

you could see Rose West sway.

She was not expecting this.

When Rose was
finally taken down,

she was totally distraught.

The ground from under
her feet had disappeared

and she was sobbing
uncontrollably.

She honestly thought that she
was going to get away with this.

Rosemary Pauline West,

on each of the ten
counts of murder,

the sentence is one
of life imprisonment.

Well, she's equivocal
on innocence.

The prospect of Rose

suddenly deciding to kick
the wall down and say,

"This is what it's all about,
this is what I've done,

this is how I feel,"

um, I think the chances
of that are nil.

And as she crossed
the courtyard,

our camera caught
the final moments as,

holding white carrier bag,

she was taken inside,
flanked by warders.

Rose West will die in prison,

where she maintains her
innocence to this day.

I don't know how many
mornings Rose West counts,

saying that, "They're
being really mean to me!

And they're being
really unkind to me!"

And she didn't want to
come out of her cell,

and was considering giving
up her wing cleaning job.

And she was really
kind of upset,

as though she was being bullied.

She just didn't have the
strength of character

that I would've expected a
serial killer to have had.

She had a reality that she
hadn't been able to confront

since her childhood.

When I asked her to
describe her childhood,

she describes a sugar-sweet,

candy-coated,
flossy, merry time.

She presents the home
life as these vigilant,

overprotective parents who would
do anything for their children

and were always there,
which was complete nonsense.

Since childhood, Rose has
preferred fantasy over reality,

something that contributed
to her narcissism.

But Rose's path may have
been destined to end

in this disturbing way
before she was even born.

I think where the
mother is mentally ill,

not engaging, and stressed,
suffering from anxiety,

it's all that stuff that
impacts on the unborn child.

The psychology
starts in the womb.

Daisy's deficiencies
were contributing factors

in Rose's development,

but her narcissism was
a result of the abuse

inflicted by her father.

There's no doubt that Bill Letts

altered his daughter
considerably.

Rosemary West had no morals
at any time in her life.

She was brought up in
a house of depravity,

and where sexual
practices and customs

applied to other people,
they didn't apply to her.

The abuse by Bill
Letts made her ripe

for her partnership
with Fred West.

But there is a leap between
sexual depravity and murder.

And Fred provided that bridge
that she willingly crossed.

I think Rose became
a serial killer

because she married Fred.

I think, had she
married somebody else,

it might've been very different.

But add the two together,
the so-called folie à deux,

then you have an absolutely
lethal combination.

She was encouraged, and then
once she got a taste for it,

she couldn't stop.

People will hold their hands
up in horror at the way

that Rose was treated,

and what presumably led to
her becoming the way she was,

by the abuse she suffered.

We'd like to think that
in this day and age,

that situation couldn't
arise, but unfortunately,

from cases I've
covered even recently,

it does still happen.

It shows, really,
that social services

and all the things that
maybe have been learnt

over the last 30
years or whatever,

since the West case
and before then,

are simply not, for
whatever reason,

being... being brought
into practice, you know?

Elements of checking and
finding out and preventing

just still do not happen.

And I think it's partly
because, very often,

the people who do this kind
of thing are extremely devious

and they find ways round it.

Rose's contrariness continued.

I prepared an appeal,

and that application went in,

and then at a late stage
with that, in 2001,

she contacted me and said,

"I don't want you to
proceed with this,"

because, she said,
"Well, I've decided that

I might as well spend the
rest of my life in prison."

So I said, "Does this mean
you're admitting your guilt?"

And she said, "No, it doesn't."

So, again, there's that
duplicity and contradiction

that you just can't get round.

Does she deserve
to die in prison?

If you accept she's
guilty, then, yeah,

there can be absolutely no doubt
she deserves to die in prison.