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1
00:00:06,140 --> 00:00:10,610
You know, a music library, when I
started out, was absolutely the devil.
2
00:00:10,611 --> 00:00:16,459
Actually no, it wasn't the devil,
it was the lowest...
3
00:00:16,660 --> 00:00:21,353
Nobody wanted to do library music,
and nobody was using library music,
4
00:00:21,354 --> 00:00:24,680
but I don't think it's to do with film,
it's to do with television.
5
00:00:24,681 --> 00:00:29,522
Suddenly we have an enormous amount
of material and programming
6
00:00:29,523 --> 00:00:31,207
and at the same time, of course,
7
00:00:31,208 --> 00:00:36,109
everybody jumped onto
the library album wagon.
8
00:00:36,110 --> 00:00:40,204
But it's still different,
writing a piece of music to film
9
00:00:40,205 --> 00:00:47,469
than it is to write a piece of music
to some imaginary film or whatever.
10
00:00:47,470 --> 00:00:51,640
It's like anything. Suddenly,
everybody is doing library music,
11
00:00:51,641 --> 00:00:53,470
everybody is trying to do television,
12
00:00:53,471 --> 00:00:56,136
everybody is trying to do
whatever, you know?
13
00:00:56,137 --> 00:01:00,010
It's basically, musicians
are just trying to earn a living.
14
00:01:00,011 --> 00:01:03,659
If libraries can guarantee
you a living, great.
15
00:01:03,660 --> 00:01:06,590
If film can guarantee
you a living, great.
16
00:01:06,591 --> 00:01:11,018
I mean, I say this time and time again,
17
00:01:11,019 --> 00:01:16,448
you know, Hollywood, it has a gazillion
bad things you can say about it,
18
00:01:16,449 --> 00:01:19,267
and they are all true, 100% true.
19
00:01:19,268 --> 00:01:23,049
But I tell you what,
here's one thing it does really well:
20
00:01:23,050 --> 00:01:25,650
every day it commissions orchestral music.
21
00:01:25,651 --> 00:01:31,179
So, that makes me happy because
it means that there is actually an outlet
22
00:01:31,180 --> 00:01:34,829
for people who want to
compose orchestral music.
23
00:01:34,830 --> 00:01:37,960
And secondly,
it keeps the orchestras alive.
24
00:01:37,961 --> 00:01:41,353
So, you know, we have just evolved,
25
00:01:41,354 --> 00:01:48,394
it's not the court of Myanmar or whatever
that keeps the orchestra alive,
26
00:01:48,395 --> 00:01:52,300
it's now Hollywood;
it's commissioning music.
27
00:01:52,701 --> 00:02:00,209
Films... God, I can't say, I mean,
it's going in weird directions.
28
00:02:00,210 --> 00:02:04,849
But you know, when we did "Batman Begins,"
we never thought we would do a sequel,
29
00:02:04,850 --> 00:02:07,783
it never occurred to us
to do a sequel, you know?
30
00:02:07,784 --> 00:02:10,798
we thought we would do one movie.
Now everything is a sequel.
31
00:02:10,799 --> 00:02:13,793
Do you think that when I got involved
with "Pirates" I thought
32
00:02:13,794 --> 00:02:18,193
I would even hear about this
33
00:02:18,194 --> 00:02:19,830
10 years later?
34
00:02:19,831 --> 00:02:23,838
I mean, Batman: "Batman Begins,"
"Dark Knight," "Dark Knight Rises."
35
00:02:23,839 --> 00:02:26,410
That's 12 years of my life.
36
00:02:26,411 --> 00:02:29,937
Three movies to you, but for me,
37
00:02:29,938 --> 00:02:35,703
12 years of coming back to a motif.
38
00:02:35,704 --> 00:02:37,798
It's not a theme, you know?
39
00:02:37,799 --> 00:02:40,491
It's like, it was two notes and an idea.
40
00:02:40,492 --> 00:02:44,880
And now I'm in the third movie,
10 years or so later,
41
00:02:44,881 --> 00:02:47,545
and this still has to hold true,
42
00:02:47,546 --> 00:02:50,790
I mean, I still have to be able to get
something out of it, you know?
43
00:02:50,791 --> 00:02:53,823
I suddenly got interested
in all this minimalist stuff,
44
00:02:53,824 --> 00:02:56,163
so I really dug myself a hole there,
45
00:02:56,164 --> 00:02:58,420
it became very complicated.
46
00:02:58,421 --> 00:03:05,509
But there is a weird human condition,
which is that we want to tell stories.
47
00:03:05,510 --> 00:03:07,960
That we need to tell each other stories,
48
00:03:07,961 --> 00:03:12,882
and that we make technology
that is in the service of telling stories,
49
00:03:12,883 --> 00:03:16,160
and right now, you know,
it's film and television.
50
00:03:16,161 --> 00:03:19,238
And television has gotten
very interesting,
51
00:03:19,239 --> 00:03:23,846
and you suddenly have people
like Amazon and Netflix and...
52
00:03:24,147 --> 00:03:26,578
you know, that are not film studios,
53
00:03:26,579 --> 00:03:32,419
are producing content
on a level of a film studio.
54
00:03:33,220 --> 00:03:39,029
So there's a constant evolution
55
00:03:39,030 --> 00:03:42,731
of the possibility of storytelling,
56
00:03:42,732 --> 00:03:46,000
it's like you don't know
what to watch anymore.
57
00:03:46,501 --> 00:03:50,847
The reason I always liked film
was because it was always aiming
58
00:03:50,848 --> 00:03:55,874
for a very high level of sonic quality
and visual quality.
59
00:03:55,875 --> 00:03:59,233
IMAX being really up there.
60
00:03:59,234 --> 00:04:05,593
Because early on in your life
as a musician you can make a decision.
61
00:04:05,594 --> 00:04:09,898
Are you going to go and aim
for the lowest common denominator,
62
00:04:09,899 --> 00:04:14,549
which when I started was
a transistor radio in mono,
63
00:04:14,550 --> 00:04:18,966
or now, you know, is it the speakers
on your laptop or whatever,
64
00:04:18,967 --> 00:04:22,439
or do you want to go
and aim for the highest thing
65
00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,132
which is, you know,
a great IMAX sound system
66
00:04:26,133 --> 00:04:28,940
or Dolby Atmos or whatever.
67
00:04:28,941 --> 00:04:35,769
And what I've found over the years is that
technology has a way of catching up
68
00:04:35,770 --> 00:04:38,144
and trying to aim for excellence
69
00:04:38,145 --> 00:04:40,987
as opposed to the lowest
common denominator.
70
00:04:40,988 --> 00:04:44,820
And it's trying to aim for excellence
"at a price," obviously.
71
00:04:44,821 --> 00:04:48,949
The studio that I can have
in my laptop now
72
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:56,099
would have been so unthinkable
and unaffordable in the '80s.
73
00:04:56,100 --> 00:04:59,922
Like, every kid can have access
in one way or the other
74
00:04:59,923 --> 00:05:02,318
to a Neve console, to a Fairlight,
75
00:05:02,319 --> 00:05:04,399
to something much better than a Fairlight.
76
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:08,580
My children are editing their own movies
on their laptops, you know?
77
00:05:08,581 --> 00:05:11,780
They're making their own
movies on their iPhones.
78
00:05:12,081 --> 00:05:19,359
So the technology
has advanced brilliantly.
79
00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,674
So now the question still is,
80
00:05:21,675 --> 00:05:25,639
who is willing to take
the risk to tell a story?
81
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:30,889
Who is willing to take a risk to tell
stories in a provocative and new way?
82
00:05:30,890 --> 00:05:33,902
Who is willing to actually
give the audience
83
00:05:33,903 --> 00:05:36,425
an experience that they
have never had before?
84
00:05:36,426 --> 00:05:38,829
Because everybody's got
the tools to do it,
85
00:05:38,830 --> 00:05:44,800
but it takes a great risk to say,
86
00:05:44,801 --> 00:05:49,383
you know, after all, you go to school
and you learn all those normal things
87
00:05:49,384 --> 00:05:54,506
that are still a legacy from the
Industrial Revolution somehow, you know?
88
00:05:54,507 --> 00:05:57,161
You have to go and, I don't know,
be good at economics,
89
00:05:57,162 --> 00:05:59,529
or be good at whatever it is.
90
00:05:59,530 --> 00:06:03,649
But nobody wants you to be a musician,
not really, you know?
91
00:06:03,650 --> 00:06:06,729
I mean, I still get this, if I walk
into a room full of people
92
00:06:06,730 --> 00:06:10,269
and they don't know who I am and somebody
says to me, "So what do you do?"
93
00:06:10,270 --> 00:06:11,993
And I say, "I'm a musician."
94
00:06:11,994 --> 00:06:14,830
They go, "No, no, no.
What do you do for a living?"
95
00:06:14,831 --> 00:06:20,301
So the great shift, I think,
is going to be
96
00:06:20,302 --> 00:06:23,415
in more people figuring out
97
00:06:23,416 --> 00:06:27,197
that they need to take the risk
to become storytellers,
98
00:06:27,198 --> 00:06:29,130
to become poets, to become painters,
99
00:06:29,131 --> 00:06:32,161
to become musicians,
to become composers,
100
00:06:32,162 --> 00:06:36,683
to become DJs,
to become crazy software writers,
101
00:06:36,684 --> 00:06:38,971
to do these things to...
102
00:06:38,972 --> 00:06:41,462
You know, we have people here...
103
00:06:41,463 --> 00:06:46,715
I remember speaking to Mark Wherry,
who designed my sampler,
104
00:06:46,716 --> 00:06:50,258
who is a very good pianist
and a very good clarinetist,
105
00:06:50,259 --> 00:06:52,646
and I said, "Why don't you
play more music?"
106
00:06:52,647 --> 00:06:56,060
And he goes...
because he thinks of himself
107
00:06:56,061 --> 00:06:58,367
that he will never become
as good a musician
108
00:06:58,368 --> 00:07:03,082
as he will become at designing tools
for great musicians.
109
00:07:03,083 --> 00:07:06,741
So, I think that's a fantastic
ambition that he has,
110
00:07:06,742 --> 00:07:10,109
that he understands
that we need more people
111
00:07:10,110 --> 00:07:13,539
who design beautiful tools for musicians.
112
00:07:13,809 --> 00:07:20,842
I mean, the main synthesizer
I use is the Zebra2,
113
00:07:21,043 --> 00:07:25,945
built by Urs Heckmann in Berlin,
and I remember saying to him,
114
00:07:25,946 --> 00:07:29,260
"Why don't you put
a sample engine into this thing?"
115
00:07:29,261 --> 00:07:31,395
And he goes,
"Well, I've got one lying around
116
00:07:31,396 --> 00:07:33,911
but I'm not really interested in that."
117
00:07:33,912 --> 00:07:36,749
And I thought that was
a really good answer.
118
00:07:36,750 --> 00:07:38,770
He wasn't interested
in building a sampler.
119
00:07:38,771 --> 00:07:41,049
Let somebody else build a sampler.
120
00:07:41,050 --> 00:07:43,730
He's interested in building
a great synthesizer.
121
00:07:43,731 --> 00:07:48,688
And, you know, people who are
constantly striving to build tools
122
00:07:48,689 --> 00:07:52,383
so that you can tell your stories better,
that's what interests me.
123
00:07:52,384 --> 00:07:57,210
And I think that's what Hollywood is.
At its best, that's what it does.
124
00:07:57,211 --> 00:08:01,402
At its worst, we sit there
and we're not entirely sure
125
00:08:01,403 --> 00:08:04,713
how to go and make the sequel interesting.
126
00:08:12,430 --> 00:08:15,199
Learn the technology,
but learn about stories.
127
00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,420
You know, it's not music school
that got me here.
128
00:08:18,421 --> 00:08:20,919
Trust me! I had two weeks
of piano lessons.
129
00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,509
It's being interested in storytelling.
130
00:08:23,510 --> 00:08:25,650
It's being interested
in the human condition.
131
00:08:25,651 --> 00:08:33,398
It's being interested in figuring out
how to push boundaries.
132
00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:38,556
That you go into a project with a crazy
idea, it always starts off like this.
133
00:08:39,020 --> 00:08:41,035
Somebody in the room is going to say,
134
00:08:41,036 --> 00:08:44,242
"I have this crazy idea,
I'm not sure if it's going to work,"
135
00:08:44,243 --> 00:08:48,120
and usually when they
first present it, it's shit.
136
00:08:48,121 --> 00:08:51,469
But then everybody...
but we take that and we,
137
00:08:51,470 --> 00:08:55,070
"Ooh, yeah!" but there's something there,
and we just need to figure it out.
138
00:08:55,071 --> 00:08:58,956
Collaboration.
I mean, what you need to do
139
00:08:58,957 --> 00:09:03,261
to be a good film composer is like
what all good musicians learn to do:
140
00:09:03,262 --> 00:09:05,390
they learn how to listen.
141
00:09:05,391 --> 00:09:07,501
You know? It's like...
142
00:09:07,702 --> 00:09:10,891
Listen to the subtext, listen to...
143
00:09:10,892 --> 00:09:13,722
See beyond the words.
144
00:09:14,023 --> 00:09:16,119
I don't know, it's...
145
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,836
And it's not a career.
146
00:09:17,837 --> 00:09:20,119
It's not a job.
147
00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,230
You can't get into it because
you want to make a lot of money.
148
00:09:23,231 --> 00:09:28,889
I mean, yeah, I think there are more
people now earning a decent living
149
00:09:28,890 --> 00:09:33,429
at making music because of library
and television and all that stuff.
150
00:09:33,430 --> 00:09:36,340
But it's not Wall Street banking.
If you want to make money,
151
00:09:36,341 --> 00:09:39,079
go into Wall Street banking.
152
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:44,309
If you have a burning desire to go and
tell a story, to write a piece of music,
153
00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:47,480
to jam with other people,
that's the only reason.
154
00:09:47,481 --> 00:09:51,989
I mean, so, what do you need
to make great film music?
155
00:09:51,990 --> 00:09:55,537
You need a f*cking laptop,
you know? That's it!
156
00:09:55,938 --> 00:10:00,590
And imagination, and inspiration,
and a little bit of courage.
157
00:10:06,740 --> 00:10:10,360
It is more difficult, and it's time
that we men got out of the way.
158
00:10:10,361 --> 00:10:11,670
It's as simple as that.
159
00:10:11,671 --> 00:10:16,809
I used to work with this amazing
composer, Shirley Walker.
160
00:10:16,810 --> 00:10:19,575
She could write the toughest action cues.
161
00:10:19,576 --> 00:10:24,079
The most testosterone-sounding
action cues I knew.
162
00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,010
And for years she was my orchestrator.
163
00:10:26,011 --> 00:10:30,989
And because nobody would hire her
as a composer, and finally I said to her,
164
00:10:30,990 --> 00:10:35,185
"Shirley, I'm firing you because
you will never become a composer
165
00:10:35,186 --> 00:10:38,219
if you always can fall back
on being my orchestrator."
166
00:10:38,220 --> 00:10:40,900
She was Danny Elfman's
orchestrator as well.
167
00:10:40,901 --> 00:10:46,459
And lo and behold,
she started to have a career.
168
00:10:46,460 --> 00:10:52,289
And, I mean, you know, she's a far
superior composer than I will ever be.
169
00:10:52,290 --> 00:10:54,090
She really had to fight for this.
170
00:10:54,091 --> 00:10:56,883
And it's not just film,
171
00:10:56,884 --> 00:10:59,980
it's not just the music business,
it's... you know, if anything,
172
00:10:59,981 --> 00:11:02,675
the music business is relatively harmless
173
00:11:02,676 --> 00:11:06,657
insofar that it seems to be
relatively un-racist, you know?
174
00:11:06,658 --> 00:11:10,097
You can be from Africa,
and you can be from England,
175
00:11:10,098 --> 00:11:12,670
and you can be from France,
and Germany and whatever,
176
00:11:12,671 --> 00:11:14,975
and you can be in the same band.
177
00:11:14,976 --> 00:11:18,410
But we just need to get rid of
these stupid ideas
178
00:11:18,411 --> 00:11:22,859
that "a composer" is supposed to be
a guy or something like that.
179
00:11:22,860 --> 00:11:26,619
If we want to hear more interesting
music, we need to let more people in.
180
00:11:26,620 --> 00:11:29,480
It's as simple as that.
And it's about people.
181
00:11:29,481 --> 00:11:33,875
And I don't care about
gender or culture, you know?
182
00:11:33,876 --> 00:11:37,100
As long as they have a voice
and they have something to say.
183
00:11:37,101 --> 00:11:41,200
And everybody has a voice,
and everybody has something to say,
184
00:11:41,201 --> 00:11:45,628
and there are really interesting
female composers out there.
185
00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:55,465
I always had a problem with this thing,
"rights in perpetuity."
186
00:11:55,466 --> 00:11:57,369
You know, in eternity?
187
00:11:57,370 --> 00:11:59,524
That always felt like a really long time,
188
00:11:59,525 --> 00:12:03,439
so my contracts are always
"in perpetuity minus one day."
189
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:05,430
It just makes me feel better.
190
00:12:05,431 --> 00:12:08,856
And it really pisses off the lawyers.
191
00:12:13,550 --> 00:12:16,451
It organizes itself. It's...
192
00:12:16,452 --> 00:12:21,360
No, I mean, I have Steve Kofsky,
I have really brilliant people running it,
193
00:12:21,361 --> 00:12:23,752
but the whole point is,
194
00:12:23,753 --> 00:12:26,448
I didn't want to have this thing
where technology,
195
00:12:26,449 --> 00:12:29,270
which was much more expensive
then than it is now,
196
00:12:29,271 --> 00:12:34,849
would disenfranchise people from
having the opportunity to do a movie,
197
00:12:34,850 --> 00:12:36,812
so I wanted to create a place
198
00:12:36,813 --> 00:12:40,972
where everybody had access
to really good technology.
199
00:12:41,173 --> 00:12:44,762
But it very quickly turned into
this other thing as well,
200
00:12:44,763 --> 00:12:48,191
which was that it was interesting
to have other musicians around
201
00:12:48,192 --> 00:12:51,408
that could talk to each other,
or could help each other out.
202
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,170
It's probably the worst business
model you can ever imagine,
203
00:12:56,171 --> 00:12:59,239
but that's sort of not the point.
204
00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,360
I don't know, just to me it's interesting
to hear other people's music,
205
00:13:03,361 --> 00:13:06,939
and to be surrounded by other musicians.
206
00:13:06,940 --> 00:13:09,490
Part of it is, I suppose,
a psychological problem
207
00:13:09,491 --> 00:13:13,540
because we musicians are weird,
and we're sort of isolated,
208
00:13:13,541 --> 00:13:16,384
and when you're a composer
you sit there by yourself,
209
00:13:16,385 --> 00:13:20,340
and I just recently,
for the first time in my life,
210
00:13:20,341 --> 00:13:24,449
went out and did a tour
and started playing the stuff live.
211
00:13:24,450 --> 00:13:29,394
And part of it was the convincing argument
that my friends had made, which was,
212
00:13:29,695 --> 00:13:32,790
"Hans, you got to get out
of your windowless room."
213
00:13:32,791 --> 00:13:36,165
I've spent 40 years in a room.
214
00:13:36,166 --> 00:13:41,565
I'd go home, I'd go to the studio,
and I'd go back home, you know?
215
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,020
Let me tell you about my Hollywood.
216
00:13:44,021 --> 00:13:45,590
I don't go to parties.
217
00:13:45,591 --> 00:13:51,900
In fact, today is, I think,
the Oscar nomination lunch, right?
218
00:13:51,901 --> 00:13:54,485
Which is what everybody wants to go to.
219
00:13:54,686 --> 00:13:56,779
I'm sitting here with you guys, instead.
220
00:13:56,780 --> 00:13:58,614
I'd much rather sit here with you guys
221
00:13:58,615 --> 00:14:03,559
than go and get dressed up
and go to an Oscar lunch, you know?
222
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:07,510
If I want to have a proper
conversation with any of these people,
223
00:14:07,511 --> 00:14:12,512
I'd much rather do it
with a few of them in my room
224
00:14:12,513 --> 00:14:15,745
in the middle of the night
with a good glass of wine.
20124
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