All language subtitles for Fall.River.S01E02.Deal.With.the.Devil.1080p.AMZN.WEB-DL.DDP5.1.H.264june15NTb

Fall River...

it was a rough place.

There were so many girls
working the streets
of Fall River at that time.

There were traffic jams
on Friday and Saturday evenings.

Doreen at age 17,
she should be in high school.

Not working the streets.

The brutality of her murder
is chilling.

She was face down. She was just
about completely nude.

She was prostituting
in Fall River.

And the investigation sort of
went in that direction.

That's apparently when she ran
into Carl Drew.

Carl Drew was known as someone

who was on the street daily,
was a pimp.

For some reason, I had
a bad reputation out there

that people knew not to...
not to mess with anything
that was mine.

He drugged those girls up.

Carl Drew, did he know me? No.

Did I know who he was? Yes.

Carl Drew used Satanism as a way
to control... to control
the women on the street.

They brought her in a room
and they tied her up and they
dripped blood all over here.

They had big crosses hung
from the ceiling upside down
and everything.

Karen was really upset
with Carl Drew.

She called him the devil.
She said that he was
going to kill her.

The police came
to my mother's house
and they questioned me.

'Cause Karen was missing.

And at that point we knew
she probably was not missing.

Robin was caught in the middle
of all this.

Robin was only 17 years old
at the time.

Robin was also indicted
for murder.

She turned state's evidence.

It has also
been revealed that her murder

was a ritualistic killing
tied to a satanic cult

that exists among prostitutes
and pimps in Fall River.

Robin says that Carl Drew,
the son of Satan,

told them that they had to
participate because they were
offering her soul to Satan.

The state police dogs were
hitting on the blood
where she was killed

where her throat was cut
and she bled out.

Carl Drew had nothing
to do with these murders.

Everybody knows it.

Everybody.

They came to my house
and they said that

I was being arrested for, uh,

parole violation
for whereabouts unknown.

They didn't handcuff me
or nothing.

And they had me walking down
the stairs in front of them.

I knew something was up.

Back then,
you had 15 days to wait

before you got a hearing
for a parole violation and...

And on the 15th day, they tell
me I was going to court.

Grand jury murder indictments
were handed down today

for the death of 20-year-old
Karen Marsden.

The next thing I know,
I'm being accused of murder.

Hello, this is
a prepaid collect call from...

An inmate at

Massachusetts Department
of Corrections.

Carl Drew was initially charged
with two murders.

That of Doreen Levesque
and Karen Marsden.

But the prosecution ultimately
only decided to take one
of the cases to trial.

And that was the murder
of Karen Marsden.

The investigators and
the prosecution had a weak case.

They had a series of murders,

they didn't really have any
forensic evidence

that tied Carl Drew
to either of these murders.

And they decided that the
Levesque case was so weak

that they would rather put that
into evidence against him

without having to go through
the process of trying him

and maybe having him acquitted
on that case.

They tried me
for the Karen Marsden case.

They used the Doreen Levesque
case as a motive for me
killing Karen Marsden.

They're sitting there saying
the reason I killed
Karen Marsden

is 'cause she witnessed me
killing Doreen Levesque.

Unfortunately, there
is this prior bad acts doctrine

which allows evidence
of prior bad acts

to come into evidence simply
if it shows motive or a
consistent course of conduct.

Even though there's not been
a trial on those prior charges.

The thinking was that
Doreen was killed because

she wouldn't work for Carl Drew.

And no one tells Carl Drew,
"No."

Doreen Levesque, she was
a nice girl and I would say...

You wouldn't think
that she was underage.

But then I found out that she
was only 17 at the time.

And I wouldn't have nothing
to do with her.

That's not true.

He knew Doreen,
she was working the street.

He had intimidated her, he told
her not to work the street.

We had talked to so many
young ladies on the street.

And we had some
great informants.

Alan Silvia pulled me
in the police department
and, you know what I mean,

asked me if I knew anything
about Doreen Levesque
and all that stuff.

And at first, I didn't...
I didn't even realize
who she was.

Spent very little time
questioning Carl Drew.

But he also wasn't someone
that we went to on the street
to talk to.

Well, that night that she was
supposed to have been killed,

I was at my stepmother,
who was getting married.

And it was like a gay wedding.

And I was there at the wedding.

I had photos of me there.

There were many aspects
that corroborated

Carl's innocence story

that had been omitted
or trampled under at trial.

Carl, uh, had a
grossly inexperienced attorney
defending him.

John Birkness
was assigned to Carl
for the murder trial.

He was a nice man,
but I don't think he should have
been given that assignment.

John Birkness, he had never
worked a murder case before.

And after Carl's case, he never
worked another one again.

So, you know, right from
the get-go, he pretty much just

got railroaded every which way.

There were these four people

who claimed to have witnessed
Karen Marsden's murder.

Robin Murphy, Carol Fletcher,

Willie Smith, and Carl Davis.

The two men were charged
and the two women
were given immunity deals

to testify against the men.

They were all connected.
They all knew each other.

They were all working
the streets.

...and all that shit.

Robin and Carol Fletcher.

They were the witnesses
that were at the scene.

The deal with
Carol Fletcher was an easy one
for the prosecution to make.

Because she was there,
she witnessed it,

but she was not involved
with the actual killing.

She was one
of these little girls,
what they call a barfly.

You know what I mean?
She would do tricks for draft
beers and all that stuff.

Robin, that was a little
bit more problematic.

We first heard about
Robin Murphy from the police.

And it was a very different
person that they trotted

into court some months later.

She came in with her little
Peter Pan collar and
a gold cross on her neck.

And she looked like butter
wouldn't melt in her mouth.

Robin looked
like the girl next door
when she was cleaned up.

So putting her before a jury
was better for the prosecution.

The DA's office gave her
a deal for her star testimony.

She was given
second-degree murder.

In Massachusetts,
second-degree murder, there's
eligibility for parole.

First-degree murder, there's
no eligibility for parole.

So if you could stand,
Miss Murphy, as well as anyone
here in the room

who is here to give testimony,

stand and raise
their right hand.

Robin Murphy and
Karen Marsden were pinpointed

at the home of the
foster parents
of Karen Marsden's child

between 7:45 and 8:30 at night.

Robin Murphy showed up
at her home in Fall River

shortly before 10:00.

So that leaves a less
than two hour window.

They allegedly hitchhiked
to downtown Fall River,

which would have taken
at least 20 minutes.

They were threatened by Carl
and several people

who allegedly were involved
in the murder scene.

They drove, uh,

a half an hour from
Fall River to this woods.

That's where they
dragged her out of the car,

ripped her hair out,
punched her in the face,

ripped all her clothes
off of her.

Robin Murphy actually
killed Karen Marsden.

But she says that she did it
because Carl Drew,

who was present, made her do it
and she feared for her life.

She probably told
the truth whenever she could.

But if it wasn't convenient,
then we'd tell a lie.

I think you have to find
that she was at the scene

and that she knows a good deal
more than she's telling

because lawyers are asking
very specific questions

to get at the information
they want.

That doesn't necessarily paint
an honest picture
of what happened.

They drove half an hour
from Fall River to this woods,

half an hour each way.

And they spent 60 to 90 minutes

doing this ritual murder,

after which they claimed
they burned the body,

and it took a long time
for that body to burn.

So that's about three to four
hours worth of activity

that couldn't have taken place
in the two hours.

Do I think
she was a liar?

Yes.

They're saying that I did this.

That I cut the poor girl's head
off and all that stuff.

The easiest story
to remember is the truth.

When you make up a story,

you have no memory to go back to
when you retell that story.

If the first story's made up,

every single time you tell
that story you're gonna
screw it up.

You're gonna
tell it differently.

Every time Robin
told the story,

there would be some little
differences, there'd be changes
in the story.

And as a result, that
complicated the investigation.

And that could have posed a
really serious, serious problem

for the prosecution.

That's why Carol became
such a really key element
in the case.

Carol was a friend
of Robin Murphy and Karen.

She was another prostitute.

We spoke to her several times.

And she, you know,

did admit that
she had been there,

that it was her rental car
that they had used to drive
Karen down to Westport.

And she told us the whole story
of when it happened.

There wasn't any
cross-examination

that you would expect
a real trained attorney...

This is a murder case now.

We did get
the rental car that Carol

had driven
with that group that night

and had it tested by the state
police crime lab for blood.

Never found any blood.

Carl's alibi was that he had
been in a particular bar

and had spoken with a particular
bartender that he knew well

and several other associates
in that bar on that night...

and had several people who
could corroborate each other.

On February 8th,
a Friday,

and Friday nights
is one of the busiest nights,

we were on the pier.

The lawyer got money
to hire an investigator

and tasked the investigator
to go out and interview
the alibi witnesses.

And what happened was that
Birkness didn't bother

to talk to the investigator

until he checked in
with him a year later.

And when he checked in with him,
he found out that
the investigator had died.

So he hired a new investigator

to go back to these witnesses
and say to them,

"Do you remember a year ago,
when Carl Drew was with you

between this time and that time
on the night of the murder?"

I mean, good luck.

I guess what you could say
would probably amount
to forensic evidence back then

is there was a ring
on the finger of Karen Marsden.

And this girl named Leah Johnson
was given the ring by Carl Drew.

Leah Johnson
was Carl Drew's girlfriend.

And she had some of the
possessions, at least a ring,

for sure, of Karen Marsden.

And she received it
the same day,

the day after Karen's death.

Well, we...

And she brought the ring
to the state police and said,
"Carl Drew gave me this ring.

I think it's Karen's."

And then Karen's mother
went on the stand and said,

"Yeah,
that's my daughter's ring."

So how did Carl
get the ring

when Karen was wearing it
the night that she was murdered?

The ring placed Carl
at the scene of the homicide.

That's pretty solid.

If it's in fact true.

Leah Johnson,

also alleged to be
a confession witness,

who Carl Drew allegedly
described

a dream that he had in which...

there was a satanic murder
ritual in the woods of, uh,
the victim, but only as a dream.

But none of this
satanic ritual evidence

had to do
with Karen Marsden's murder.

It was just sort of coloring.

There is long been a tendency
for generations to freak out

about the fact that we are
all in moral decline.

I'd like to begin with a fact.

A simple yet shocking fact.

That a moral decay is spreading
through our country...

The world's going straight
to hell in a handbasket.

And they say that we have
a moral decline and that
the families are breaking up

and there's a drug plague
and we're going to lose.

The satanic panic
was this time.
It was the 1980s to about 1995

where there was a moral panic
happening all across
the United States.

And they were kicking over every
rock looking for the devil.

Alpine police
say five young Alpine men

are accused of conducting
satanic rituals.

Friday morning, we had
a call at the Catholic church.

When I arrived,
I noticed two pentagrams

and an inverted cross.

The Puritans absolutely
believed in a material Satan

who worked on people's bodies.

But that Satan
goes away for, like, 200 years

and then shows back up
in the 1980s.

Police take away
boxes full of bones

and satanic paraphernalia.

The root to the satanic panic
actually leaned back
into the mid-20th century.

That was the time
when we were sort of
head-to-head against Russia.

In this Cold War,
perhaps even more
than in a normal war,

understanding the communist
enemy is terribly important.

They're traitors to America.
Why don't we do something
about it!

They are enemies!
They are not Americans!

A way for the United
States to position itself
as morally superior

was to align ourselves with God.

Our Constitution
was written by men

who put their trust in God.

Christian equals us versus
everybody else who doesn't
believe in God is evil.

So the USSR became satanic.

And we began to incorporate
"in God we trust"

into the national conversation.

We saw televangelists
like Billy Graham

waltzing in and out
of the White House.

To lead America
to the dawning of a new day,

with renewed trust in God...

If you have a culture that's
primed to believe that stuff,

all it takes is one spark
and you've got panic.

In 1980, there was a book
that came out
called Michelle Remembers.

And it was about this woman
who had apparently
had repressed memories

of her childhood and being
ritually abused by Satanists.

And this was extracted
by her psychiatrist.

And they published together
this book.

Over the course
of several months,

Pazder hypnotized Michelle.

I'm going to count backwards
from ten to one.

And strongly, strongly
encouraged her
to recover memories

of having been ritually abused
by her mother

and a group
of local Satan worshippers.

The Virgin Mary literally
appears to her

and encourages Michelle to go
forth and basically warn people

that Satan is coming
and we're all in grave danger.

That book propelled

a decade and a half of fear
and paranoia and panic

and the ruining of lives
all across the United States.

Whether Satan exists
is a matter of belief.

But we are certain
that Satanism exists.

To some it's a religion.
To others it's the practice
of evil

in the devil's name.

It exists and is flourishing.

What Ruth saw
when she followed them inside

would later be locked away
to reappear only

for a psychiatrist during
a hypnosis session.

There are absolutely
people in the mid-1980s

who are like, "Actual Satan
is working through people and
Satan is coming for our kids

and working through our local
officials and possibly our law
enforcement," whatever.

Ruth tells
of a room with an altar,

a table with a black cloth
on it and a big book
and lots of candles.

On the table is her daughter
who's being sexually fondled
by most of the men.

I want it to stop.

My mother
keeps her door locked

during the daytime
and she used to didn't do that.

And then... and most
people just, you know,
taking precautions.

It's like anything else.

Once it hits the news media,

you got a hundred people
calling you.

Detective Alan Alves of the Freetown
Police

is an expert on satanic cults.

Some of them are way off
and stuff like that.

Some you looked into and they
turned out to be factual.

Other parts of the country,
there's human sacrifice.

Uh, we don't wanna see any
of that.

Our investigation went way up

even to government officials
and so forth.

The willingness by
police officers and attorneys

and even people
in the mental health profession

to embrace these stories
is rooted in the fact

that if you are one of the
people who's in a moral panic
about the devil,

you will see patterns
which to you are warning signs

that the devil is there.

The question is,
is there a well-organized plot,

an insidious design right now
to program and influence
the minds of our children

towards the occult
and witchcraft?

Yes, there's a vast movement
toward the occult within
the cartoon and toy industry.

Eighty percent of all cartoons
deal directly with the occult.

Smurfs representing
animated dead people.

My Little Pony was satanic.

Uh, Rainbow Brite,

the rainbow was a symbol
of the New World Order

and she had an upside-down
pentagram branded on her face.

So if the cartoon says that
a character has occult powers,

then when the child plays
with the toy,

he is going to use that toy
to cast spells

or do whatever the toy does
in the cartoon,

and they imagine themselves
with these occult powers.

There was all kind of
dolls with the eye cut out

because they give the children
drugs and everything else

when they were molesting them
and so forth.

There is great utility
in othering somebody else.

So if I disagree with you,
that's one thing.

But if you are of the devil,
if you're demonic,

if you're evil,

well, now, you know, everything
goes to a whole other level.

That is what
$10,000 worth of burning
records looks like.

The Bible says
what the standards should be

for morality, for a young person
or for any person.

And the rock groups go against
what the Bible say.

What out of all of
those satanic stories could you
ever put your finger on and say,

"There's proof."

There is no proof.

It's what anybody believes
at any given moment.

There are some very
obvious ritualistic markings
that will appear on a body

that is the result
of satanic killings.

There's oftentimes a cut
that goes from behind the ear

all the way down to the throat.

Another thing that is oftentimes
done in ritualistic homicides

is a penis is placed inside the
mouth of the deceased person.

I think everybody was starting
to realize, you know, this...

this doesn't
make a lot of sense.

The case
appeared to crumble

and the charges against
all the men were dropped.

Uh... no, it wasn't.

No, it wasn't.

It was crushed.

You know, I'm not saying that no
one ever did a heinous deed

in the name of the devil
because they believed
in a literal Satan.

But in the larger picture
against the backdrop
of the satanic panic,

you know, almost all
of the accusations made

that Satan
was supposedly behind,

all of those just vanished,
they dissolved, they fell apart.

There was nothing to them.

Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, because a lot of important
people are involved in it.

I don't wanna sound like a...
um...

"conspiry" theorist, you know.

A lot of important people
were involved, you know?

I... even today.

Q is about getting
to the truth

by educating people
about the truth about
what's really going on.

They take children and they
sacrifice these children.

It's part of Satanism.

The satanic panic
continues today.

-It's evil!
-QAnon,

there's a vast
satanic conspiracy
of Democratic pedophiles

trying to take over the world.
I mean, that's...

That is straight-up
satanic panic.

My fellow Americans,

I stand here with all
the feelings I do,

disgusted with this lie

that Biden has been chosen.

This is now our greatest fight
since the Civil War.

The battle of righteousness
versus Satan.

Yes, Satan.

Because these leftists are evil.

They're doctors, they're
lawyers, police officers

and stuff molesting kids
and everything else.

They shut it down, uh...

-The Attorney General's office.

Yeah, yes it is. Yeah.

Yeah.

People romanticize this case.

They are looking at it as this
is this satanic cult

that's worshipping
in the Freetown State Forest

and they're, you know,
killing babies and cats
and dogs and sheep

and whatever
and they've got altars
hidden deep into the woods.

And that's not what this case
was about.

The things that
were let into evidence of
satanic worshipping and stuff,

I mean, come on.

Why was that even
let in?

It's just a bunch of bullshit.

I wasn't brought up
in a religious family.

I never studied
any kind of religion.

My religion back then
was women.

I just loved
being around women.

I'm not saying that Carl Drew

necessarily participated
in these murders, but

I think it's impossible

to control women to the degree
in which he did

without some sort of fear
of violence.

It was a short time
the jurors were out,
the next thing I know,

you know, I'm being called out
there and was standing up
in front of the jury.

And I stood there and says,
"Guilty of first-degree murder."

And I'm in the shock
of my life.

Carl Drew was sentenced
for all of his natural life.

To be imprisoned.

After Carl had a trial,

the other people
he was charged with
in the same series of events,

their charges were dismissed.

If Massachusetts had the death
penalty, this would have been
a death penalty eligible case.

Uh, undeniably. In fact,
the death penalty had just
been eradicated right before.

So if Massachusetts was
a different sort of state,

Carl Drew would
be dead right now.

Carl is in prison for one case,

Karen Marsden's case.

The Doreen Levesque case
is open.

It's unsolved.

I knew Paul Carey.

He was a former
police detective sergeant.

And he was a friend
of my dad's.

Paul Carey,
we were very close.

I worked with him for

probably six
of my 19 years

in major crimes
division.

He participated
in the investigation

every step of the way,
along with myself

and Detective Joaquim.

I mean, it was
a night detective division.

The day guys, I wasn't in charge
of nothing in the day.

That was just the sergeant.
Detective sergeant.

But they asked me
if I would take over
the night detective division.

And I said I would.

Alan and I worked nights,
and eventually

Paul Carey came down

and started working
nights with us.

Nobody worked the case except me
and Alan and Tommy Joaquim.

When I was like 18 or 19,

Paul Carey came by and he said
he'd recently retired.

He had mentioned that he was
gonna be teaching some classes
just part-time, you know,

at local colleges or whatnot,
just to stay busy

'cause he didn't want
to sit around doing anything.

And that he was gonna be
a private detective.

So, and I was in community
college at the time.

And he came by and dropped off
a couple of milk crates
of the actual trial.

And he said, "Why don't you take
a look at these? Read these.
Tell me what you think."

He goes, "Now, just so you know,
all of these cases are my case.

I was the detective sergeant
of the team at the time.

And I just wanna get
to the bottom of it."

He dropped off like four
or five more milk crates

of daily logs, day by day
of what was happening.

And I started with the very
first day of the Doreen Levesque
body being found.

And went all the way
until the day

they arrested Carl Drew.

Now, this wasn't
like I sat down casually,
while watching Wheel of Fortune.

We're talking
a lot of stuff here.

He said,
"So now that I'm retired,

it's been my mission for years.

I've known
this guy's been innocent.

I just couldn't prove it
while I was still a part
of the department."

Paul told me that he
would go to the jail to meet
with Carl quite often.

Which was a shock to me.

Until the day that Paul died
and passed away,

he's always believed
in my innocence.

He wanted
to speak to the...

district attorney at the time.

Asked me to speak to the
district attorney

to talk about
Carl Drew's innocence.

I thought it
was all very strange.

I, me, and him. It's all him.
It's all him.

He's an "I" person. Right?
He's an "I" person.

I'm surprised he doesn't
have a sore back from patting
himself all the time. You know?

You could tell him I said so.

He's like,
"I'd like to track down
everybody from the trial.

Just get the truth.
If they all come back and say,
'You know what?

What I said there
was the truth and he did it,'"
he said, "Then, fine."

And he asked me
if I would help him do that.

He said, "You're good
with computers.

You know, here's a list of names
of people.

Can you find them?"

Paul begins a six-year hunt

for Carol Fletcher
and Leah Johnson.

And these were not easy people
to find.

We tracked down
Leah Johnson first.

She was locked up
for drug charges, uh, cocaine.

And so, "Find out when she's
gonna get out."

We were right in front
of the prison when she got out.

And then Paul rolled down
the window and he goes,

"Leah!"

And she looked, she's like,
"Yeah?"

Goes, "Come here,
you remember me?"

She looks in, she goes,
"Yeah, you're Paul Carey."

And he goes, "That's right.
You need a ride somewhere?"

She goes, "Well, yeah,
if you wouldn't mind."

Paul had been working on this
for... what, 32, 33 years.

You know, it's chilling
to hear his voice on there.

Go ahead, Chris,
you ask the question.

Did he say it
was Karen's ring?

Leah Johnson said, "Oh, yeah.
You know, the whole ring story?

That's a bullshit story."

Yeah, yeah.

Testimony's supposed
to be voluntary.

And a prosecutor can always say,

"I decided not to charge this
person with this other crime"

and give them immunity in
exchange for their testimony
against this person.

Now, telling someone that you're
not gonna send them to prison

if they testify for you
is inherently coercive.

What'd they say
would happen to you?

Who told you that?
Anyone in particular or...?

You say it definitely
wasn't true, Leah.

They actually
showed you that?

Before you went to court
or anything?

Yeah. I...
Oh, my God.

And what did they tell you
how it happened?

Oh, my God.
They said that to you?

She signed an affidavit.
She's recorded.

She recants her testimony
knowing she could get
in legal trouble for that.

The chances that he
was gonna find these people

was pretty slim, much less
find them still coherent.

Much less find them willing
to testify.

We located
Carol Fletcher.

She was in a shelter
in Baltimore, Maryland.

Me and Paul drove down there
early in the morning.

We left at like four.
We got there probably
around lunchtime.

Something like that.

And, uh, and we walked in there
and I asked for Carol.

Today's
the 23rd of May, 2003.

I'm at the home
of Carol Brooks,
who was Carol Fletcher in 1980.

She's a very fragile,
nervous wreck.

She's got tons of anxiety.
She's on a bunch of medications.

And you can sit and just see
when she's talking
in this interview,

I can remember that tape
when you're playing it.

So she really had, uh,
she really put you in fear
of Carl Drew?

She's just saying, you know,

he wasn't there.

Now, you were never
a Carl Drew fan,

so you have no reason
to tell me a story

that he wasn't there, the only
reason you're telling me

is because he wasn't there,
I assume.

This was a long process.
It took some time to get her
to open up.

After, you know,
many pots of coffee
and many donuts...

Carol finally broke.

You were driving around,
Carol, on February the 8th,
around whatever time it was?

Did you go anywhere
then? Or did you just, uh...

She said that to you?

She...
but she didn't say who it was?

Or who was there?

She told you that?

What kind of car was it?

A green Duster. Yeah.

Um...

And then what did you do?

She said,
this is what really happened,

was that Karen was coerced
onto the roof of Harbor Terrace,

Carl wasn't even there,
it never happened in the woods.

It was on the roof
of Harbor Terrace,

which blew us away.
We had no idea about it.

How was Karen?
Was she...

Yeah, she was crying, huh?

Robin pulled out a knife,
grabbed her by the hair,

pulled out a knife.

You saw what you saw...

You don't know whether
she was killed,

but you saw what you saw
and you left?

Right.
On the roof?

You saw her
pulling the hair out?

The knife and, uh,
and you left?

The revelation that we got
from Carol that no one
had ever gotten before

was that Carol witnessed

Robin Murphy
killing Karen Marsden.

Or she was right nearby
when it happened.

Robin Murphy actually
killed Karen Marsden.

The DA's office made a mistake.

Here was finally
independent evidence

that Murphy had killed Marsden
without Carl Drew being present.

She beat the Fall River
police department,
she got away with murders,

then she went over their heads
and went directly
to the prosecutor.

Robin masterminded
all of this.

I say she's the mastermind?
Yeah, she was.

At 17 years old,
she was able to convince
the district attorney

and the courts Carl
was gonna kill her,

and that she had no choice
but to testify against Carl
for what he did.

You know, you have
to give credit to Robin Murphy.

You know, the only thing you can
say is that she's a lot smarter

than all the fucking people
involved in the case.

I filed the motion
for new trial
in September of 2003.

But in May of 2004,

Robin Murphy came up for parole.

Do you solemnly swear
that the testimony that you give
to the Massachusetts parole...

Detective Sergeant Paul Carey
never really thought

talking to Robin was
gonna be beneficial.

Because Robin
is a manipulator.

She was up for parole soon.
She's not gonna tell on herself.

Robin Murphy manipulated them.

She committed these crimes.

Robin Murphy came before
the state parole board

and admitted to them
that she had lied.

And also, she denied
killing anybody.

It was a really alarming
parole hearing.

And the parole board member
said,

"Hold on, hold on.

Let me get this straight.
You're saying that you lied?

Do you not have any remorse
for this?"

She made up this whole
story about Carl.

It was... it was all bullshit.

All bullshit.

If Carl had the opportunity

to testify against Robin,

I think he would have.

He could have done that,

if he was given the same offer.

But he wasn't.

After listening to her
testimony,

the parole board,
the state parole board,

paroled her.

They believed her enough
to put her back on the street
after she'd pled guilty.

She beat the parole board
by saying,
"I'm a changed person.

I'm gonna be a good girl,
I promise."

And she was able to get out
again, even though they knew
she had changed her story.

I tried to speak to
Robin. I went to her house.

I reached out to her attorney.

She steadfastly refused
to speak to me.

I think I got her
on the phone once.

And she called me a liar.

She hasn't told her story.
You know, it's funny,

I kind of lost track
of Robin Murphy
shortly after she was released.

And I was really hoping they'd
put her back in prison.

Robin was finally granted parole
in early 2000. She was released.

She was out for
about seven years, till 2011.

She'd got into a relationship
with a... another felon.

And, unfortunately, that
violated her parole conditions.

Miss Murphy, you pled
guilty and you were committed,

uh, on a second-degree
life sentence

as a result of your plea?

Yes, sir.

Uh, since that time,
you were paroled in 2004.

-Correct?
-Yes, sir.

-You're now back
on a revocation?
-Yes, sir.

-Of that parole? Okay.
-Yes, sir.

My regret
in all that is...

no one will ever find out
what really happened.

Because what I said has now
become what happened.

So the real story won't
really never come out.

Hello,
this is a prepaid collect call.

How you feeling?
Exhausted.

Yeah.
Yeah.

I like how you know
a lot of pieces

and it seems like no one else
ever put any of that together.

I don't know that...
I just
find it amazing.

That's crazy.

I tried really hard numerous
times to tell the truth.

No one cares.

I wish that people really knew
what really happened.